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1
Reality Based Steve  Mar 7, 2016 • 10:00:57am

Excellent page, as always from you. I don’t know how you do it. (So you must be an alien)

RBS

2
CriticalDragon1177  Mar 7, 2016 • 10:05:38am

re: #1 Reality Based Steve

LOL! You discovered my secret Earthling!

3
KingKenrod  Mar 7, 2016 • 10:14:32am

I wonder how people can watch shows like Ancient Aliens and Ghost Hunters for years and not figure out that it’s all bullshit. Maybe it’s like pro wrestling and they don’t really care as long as it’s a good time.

4
CriticalDragon1177  Mar 7, 2016 • 11:06:41am

re: #3 KingKenrod

One would hope they know its not real, but than again, a lot of people seem to think their “theories” are legit unfortunately.

5
jc717  Mar 7, 2016 • 1:51:48pm

Not many people are claiming that Stone Hedge or the Great Wall were built by aliens. It’s usually the pyramids in Egypt and Central America. When they say that they don’t understand how ancient people could have built such wonders, they really mean that they don’t understand how ‘brown’ ancient people could have built these wonders.

This sadly is not a new phenomenon. in the mid 90s I was on a tour bus from Cancun to Chichen Itza. The paid for tour guide was a true believer in the ancient astronaut hypothesis, flat out saying that aliens helped build the Central American pyramids. When I pressed him about it privately, he looked dismissively at some of the local people and said ‘how could ‘they’ have build something like that?’.

That’s just 1 anecdote, but that was the first time that I became aware of some of these crazy ideas.

6
CriticalDragon1177  Mar 7, 2016 • 8:13:12pm

re: #5 jc717

To be fair, I’m not really sure to what degree the ancient astronaut loons are motivated by racism. That is why I didn’t accuse them of being racists.

At least some ancient astronauts proponents have stated that the Greek gods were aliens. The Greeks are generally considered white by most people including white supremacists.

Also It sounds like Erich von Daniken Stonehenge himself, believed aliens at least played a role in building Stonehenge.

Wouldn’t be surprised through if racism was involved to at least some degree.

However, I would imagine that hard core racists would be more likely to claim that white people built structures that were created by non white cultures instead of aliens. Than again, most racists, even if they’re atheists and fancy themselves as “critical thinkers,” which they never are, probably only have a slightly better understanding of evolution than your typical creationists. Many of them probably think that the aliens were white people. Boy would they probably be horrified if they ever came across a real alien. They might be “white” and maybe you could call them “people,” if they qualified as intelligent, rational beings, but they wouldn’t be human. It would be ironic if a white nationalist thought that aliens built the pyramids, because he didn’t like brown people, because it would be pretty safe to assume he would look down upon real aliens even more.

7
KerFuFFler  Mar 8, 2016 • 11:13:09am

I remember thinking Daniken’s speculations were pretty cool when I first heard them in the early 70’s.

But then, I was an elementary schooler…

8
mroop  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:22:45pm

“Sorry but there’s no evidence that aliens visited the earth at any time, in the present or in the past.”

There is plenty of evidence.

amazon.com

9
CriticalDragon1177  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:53:47pm

re: #8 mroop

Sorry, not really. There’s no compelling evidence of aliens ever having visited Earth, nor is there any compelling evidence of a government cover up.

You want to convince me, convince James Randi, Micheal Shermer, Neil deGrasse Tyson, and Phil Plait that they’re here.

Also even if some UFOs are genuinely “unidentified flying objects,” that doesn’t mean they’re piloted by beings from another planet.

10
mroop  Mar 9, 2016 • 7:47:03am

re: #9 CriticalDragon1177

Sorry, not really. There’s no compelling evidence of aliens ever having visited Earth, nor is there any compelling evidence of a government cover up. ….
Also even if some UFOs are genuinely “unidentified flying objects,” that doesn’t mean they’re piloted by beings from another planet.

Sorry, there is plenty of compelling evidence. I looked at the Amazing Randi link for 2 seconds and saw this: “the Stephenville case was a repeat of the flare drop responsible for the famous Phoenix Lights in 1997”. Flare drop - ha ha ha! You can find a good documentary on the Phoenix LIghts - the flare drop story was so ridiculous that only a fool would buy into it because it made no sense at all. Hundreds of eyewitnesses watched the lights pass overhead. That’s not a “flare drop”.

Are you aware that the governor of Arizona at the time held a press conference mocking the idea that the Phoenix Lights was a UFO incident? After his governorship ended he came out and said it was a UFO and he saw it too.

One of the best cases was the RB-47 incident. It was captured on radar by the officers in the plane, ground radar and visually.

ufocasebook.com

I was a skeptic until recently. Then I watched all of Richard Thieme’s lectures at the DEF CON conferences over the years (all on YouTube) and started reading. Sorry, the UFO’s are here and there is no doubt about it. Of course a UFO does not necessarily mean a craft piloted by an extraterrestrial, it only means an unidentified flying object. The proof that we are being visited is a matter of public record. Our government’s reaction to the UFO’s is the best proof that they are here.

11
mroop  Mar 9, 2016 • 7:50:39am
12
mroop  Mar 9, 2016 • 8:07:21am

Just read Shermer’s article and I agree with him. Most of those History Channels shows are ridiculous. I saw nothing in his article where he states that there is no compelling evidence of aliens visiting Earth.

13
CriticalDragon1177  Mar 9, 2016 • 8:16:52am

re: #11 mroop

Sorry it wasn’t an alien space craft. Its not a mystery anymore, if it ever was one. You need to do a better job when it comes to research.

The Phoenix Lights Explained (Again)
skeptic.com

The fact that the governor saw what he thought was a UFO, doesn’t mean he saw a UFO and as I pointed out earlier, even if we didn’t know what the Phoenix lights are, that wouldn’t give us a good reason to think they were extraterrestrial in origin. You probably didn’t even watch the Neil deGrasse Tyson video that I linked to. The fact that he was a governor, does not make his eyewitness testimony any more reliable. You don’t have to be an expert on what constitutes compelling evidence of alien visitation to be a governor.

14
CriticalDragon1177  Mar 9, 2016 • 8:27:50am

re: #10 mroop

I don’t want to be rude, but I don’t think you understand what constitutes “compelling evidence.” Simply having hundreds of eyewitnesses to a strange event that we a more plausible explanation for than aliens, doesn’t count as proof of anything. Aliens visiting Earth and the government covering it up are both extraordinary claims. Eyewitness testimony, the odd behavior of some public officials, and some declassified documents with that often have words blacked out, and that don’t specifically mention aliens in any of text that’s still there, isn’t sufficient to convince the scientific community.

15
mr.fusion  Mar 9, 2016 • 8:43:49am

I’m not going to lie. I LOVE the show Ancient Aliens

It’s not so much because of the premise behind it, but more so because the show incorporates archeology, astrology, history, religion, myth, geography, and conspiracy all into one hour.

A lot of the stuff on there drives me crazy in how ridiculous they are (Bigfoot is aliens, Noah’s Ark was actually an alien spacecraft), but every once in awhile something pops up that just can’t be explained. I think Puma Punku is my favorite example of the unexplainable.

Someone up above said they don’t know how someone can watch it unless they treat it like WWE. I think that’s actually a pretty good analogy. The only thing I’d add is that by watching this ridiculous show, I’ve learned a lot about different archeological sites that I would’ve never otherwise been exposed to.

16
CriticalDragon1177  Mar 9, 2016 • 8:47:34am

re: #15 mr.fusion

Well if you learned about those sites from Ancient Aliens, I would take what you learned with a grain of salt, unless you found information on them from more reliable sources.

17
mroop  Mar 9, 2016 • 9:16:14am

re: #13 CriticalDragon1177

Sorry it wasn’t an alien space craft. Its not a mystery anymore, if it ever was one. You need to do a better job when it comes to research.

The Phoenix Lights Explained (Again)
skeptic.com

The fact that the governor saw what he thought was a UFO, doesn’t mean he saw a UFO and as I pointed out earlier, even if we didn’t know what the Phoenix lights are, that wouldn’t give us a good reason to think they were extraterrestrial in origin. You probably didn’t even watch the Neil deGrasse Tyson video that I linked to. The fact that he was a governor, does not make his eyewitness testimony any more reliable. You don’t have to be an expert on what constitutes compelling evidence of alien visitation to be a governor.

First you linked to an article claiming it was James Randi when Randi didn’t even write the article. I pointed out the flaw in the article so you found another skeptic with no evidence and now his article is “compelling evidence”. There is no point in continuing because I can do the same thing that you’re doing. When an incident is captured on ground radar, plane radar and sighted visually and there is no explanation then that is what we call a UFO. If you want to debunk the RB-47 incident then you can probably find something using google.

18
CriticalDragon1177  Mar 9, 2016 • 9:23:09am

re: #17 mroop
……..?

19
CriticalDragon1177  Mar 9, 2016 • 9:27:29am

re: #17 mroop

Okay, got me there. It was still written by someone at the James Randi foundation through. That kind of makes it a moot point.

20
mr.fusion  Mar 9, 2016 • 10:39:28am

re: #16 CriticalDragon1177

Well if you learned about those sites from Ancient Aliens, I would take what you learned with a grain of salt, unless you found information on them from more reliable sources.

Oh, believe me I absolutely do. I never said I believe any of what I’ve seen on that show can be contributed to “aliens” …. but there are definitely a ton of mysterious sites out there that can be described as unexplainable

I’m also wondering if you’ve ever heard of the Rendelsham Forest incident?

therendleshamforestincident.com

Like I said, I’m a total skeptic even though I love reading about this stuff…for me, that is the one “incident” that stands out as the most credible

21
mroop  Mar 9, 2016 • 12:52:56pm

Rendlesham is one of the big ones that’s in all of the UFO shows I’ve been checking out lately. Most of the shows are ridiculous, but some of them are good. I watched a good one on Netflix last night: “UFOs: The Secret History”.

I will again recommend Richard Thieme’s DEF CON lectures, not just the UFO ones. He is brilliant and is very hooked in. He’s been doing DEF CON lectures for many years and is highly respected in government circles. You can go to YouTube and search: Richard Thieme and DEF CON or UFO. I download from YouTube and then stream to my TV, much better than looking at a monitor.

“Richard Thieme (born 1944), is a former priest who became a commentator on technology and culture, founding the consulting firm ThiemeWorks. He is a frequent keynote speaker at government agencies and technology conferences around the world, routinely drawing large audiences, and is described as an “institution” and “father figure” in the hacker convention circuit.”

en.wikipedia.org

22
CriticalDragon1177  Mar 9, 2016 • 9:55:44pm

re: #21 mroop

Unless Richard Thieme can provide something that can be tested in a lab, and he convinces the scientific community, and the proof of aliens visiting the Earth ends up all over the news, he’s not going to convince me the UFOs are alien spacecraft.

23
mroop  Mar 10, 2016 • 11:06:45am

Here is your proof:

amazon.com

24
mroop  Mar 10, 2016 • 11:14:50am

re: #22 CriticalDragon1177

Unless Richard Thieme can provide something that can be tested in a lab, and he convinces the scientific community

The scientific community is not going to investigate UFO’s because they are afraid of being ridiculed - too much downside. This is as far as they’ve gone.

Scientific panel concludes some UFO evidence worthy of study

In the first independent review of UFO phenomena since 1970, a panel of scientists has concluded that some sightings are accompanied by physical evidence that deserves scientific study. But the panel was not convinced that any of this evidence points to a violation of known natural laws or the involvement of an extraterrestrial intelligence. ….

The reviewers also made the following observations:

• The UFO problem is not a simple one, and it is unlikely that there is any simple, universal answer.

• Whenever there are unexplained observations, there is the possibility that scientists will learn something new by studying them.

• Studies should concentrate on cases that include as much independent physical evidence as possible.

• Continuing contact between the UFO community and physical scientists could be productive.

• Institutional support for research in this area is desirable.

news.stanford.edu

25
mroop  Mar 10, 2016 • 11:25:08am

Scientists on UFO’s:

Werner Von Braun, rocket scientist who was instrumental in the development of Nazi Germany’s V2 rocket and later, the American space program.

“We find ourselves faced by powers which are far stronger than we had hitherto assumed, and whose base is at present unknown to us. More I cannot say at present. We are now engaged in entering into closer contact with those powers, and in six or nine months time it may be possible to speak with some precision on the matter.” —This comment comes from “News Europa” Jan. 1959 and refers to mysterious events during the re-entry phase of the Juno 2 rocket during a test flight.

“…it is as impossible to confirm them (UFOs) in the present as it will be to deny them in the future.” —In a comment to Nasa scientist, Clark McClelland
___________________

“What I found [in doing research for the book Project Delta] was compelling evidence to claim that most of these aerial objects far exceeded the terrestrial technology of the era in which they were seen. I was forced to conclude that there is a great likelihood that Earth is being visited by highly advanced aerospace vehicles under highly ‘intelligent’ control indeed.”

Dr. Richard F. Haines, retired NASA senior research scientist at Ames Research Center and the Research Institute for Advanced Computer Science where he worked on the International Space Station.—From the preface of his book, CE-5, 1998.

Dr. J. Allen Hynek, former Chairman of the Dept. of Astronomy at North Western University and scientific advisor to Project Bluebook from 1952-1969

“When I first got involved in this field, I was particularly skeptical of people who said they had seen UFOs on several occasions and totally incredulous about those who claimed to have been taken aboard one. But I’ve had to change my mind.” —1972

“It reminds me of tthe days of Galileo when he was trying to get people to look at the sun spots. They would say that the sun is a symbol of God; God is perfect; therefore the sun is perfect; therefore spots cannot exist: therefore there is no point in looking.” —Hynek in Newsweek, Nov. 21, 1977, p. 97

I was there at [Project] Bluebook and I know the job they had. They were told not to excite the public, not to rock the boat … Whenever a case happened that they could explain—which was quite a few—they made a point of that, and let that out to the media…Cases that were very difficult to explain, they would jump handsprings to keep the media away from them. They had a job to do, rightfully or wrongfully, to keep the public from getting excited.” —From a filmed interview. I don’t know the date.
_________________

“Many professional astronomers are convinced that saucers are interplanetary machines.”

Dr. Frank Halstead of the Darling Observatory, Minnesota—1957
_________________________

“UFO sightings are now so common, the military doesn’t have time to worry about them…when a UFO appears, they simply ignore it…Unconventional targets are ignored because apparently we are only interested in Russian targets, possibly enemy targets. Something that hovers in the air, then shoots off at 5,000 miles per hour, doesn’t interest us, because it can’t be the enemy. UFOs are picked up by ground and air radar, and they have been photographed by gun camera all along. There are so many UFOs in the sky that the Air Force has had to employ special radar networks to screen them out.”

Lee Katchen, NASA atmospheric physicist in an announcement on June 7, 1968 in which he stated that he believed, based on his examination of 7,000 reports, that UFOs have an extraterrestrial origin.

Dr. Herman Oberth, the father of modern rocketry

“UFOs are conceived and directed by intelligent beings of a very high order, and they are propelled by distorting the gravitational field, converting gravity into useable energy. There is no doubt in my mind that these objects are interplanetary craft of some sort. I and my colleagues are confident that they do not originate in our solar system, but we feel that they may use Mars or some other body as sort of a way station. They probably do not originate in our solar system, perhaps not even in our galaxy.” —This comment was apparently made sometime in 1954, I don’t know the source, but it seems consistent with the following quote from The American Weekly of Oct. 24, 1954: “It is my thesis that flying saucers are real and that they are space ships from another solar system.”

“We cannot take the credit for our record advancement in certain scientific fields alone. We have been helped.” [reporter asks “By who?”] “The people of other worlds.” —From a statement to a group of reporters after his retirement in 1960.

ufoevidence.org

26
CriticalDragon1177  Mar 10, 2016 • 11:28:34am

re: #23 mroop

Here is your proof:

amazon.com

Sorry, but that link doesn’t even work. That doesn’t really count as proof. Posting a broken link won’t even get you an A for effort.

27
CriticalDragon1177  Mar 10, 2016 • 11:41:36am

re: #25 mroop

Never mind that the vast majority of scientists, especially astronomers, don’t think that UFOs are extraterrestrial spacecraft.

Never mind that in spite of the occasional scientists who agrees with them, Ufologists generally have an extreme poor record.

Ten Alien Encounters Debunked
space.com

Having some scientists who agree with you, isn’t the same as the scientific community agreeing with you. You may occasionally find real scientists who are creationists, but that doesn’t prove creationism, or mean that the scientific community is embracing creationism and rejecting evolution. People like you who insist the aliens are here, have their work cut out for them.

28
CriticalDragon1177  Mar 10, 2016 • 11:54:45am

re: #24 mroop

No scientists do indeed study UFOs but when they do they tend to come to the conclusion that they are not alien spacecraft. If they were, why aren’t they finding evidence that is so compelling that the scientific community is convinced, and why isn’t it all over the news? Scientists who studied extra solar planets were once seen as engaging in a pointless exercise, but once the evidence of extra solar planets was confirmed it made headlines, and scientists who searched for them, were then taken seriously. Why wouldn’t the same happen with UFOs if “the truth was out there?” Saying that there is a government cover up isn’t going to cut it, because now you still have to prove that UFOs are alien spacecraft and now you also have to prove the conspiracy to cover up alien visitation.

29
mroop  Mar 10, 2016 • 12:08:14pm

re: #28 CriticalDragon1177

you still have to prove that UFOs are alien spacecraft and now you also have to prove the conspiracy to cover up alien visitation.

The conspiracy has already been proven with primary documents in “UFOs and Government: A Historical Inquiry”. Check your local library. The book has been recommended for inclusion in academic libraries by CHOICE: a publication of the Association of College and Research Libraries.

Btw, I agree with that debunking article. With a quick scan, all or most of them are bunk.

30
CriticalDragon1177  Mar 10, 2016 • 12:13:15pm

re: #29 mroop

Primary documents that usually have the words blacked out where you would expect them to mention the aliens, don’t count.

Also some of those classified “primary documents” have been shown to be fakes.

Who Wrote The Majestic 12 Papers?
skepticblog.org

The New Bogus Majestic-12 Documents
csicop.org

31
CriticalDragon1177  Mar 10, 2016 • 12:19:10pm

re: #29 mroop

By the way, I edited and added another link to my last comment, on the Majestic Twelve hoax, after I posted it, just in case you didn’t notice, since I didn’t think the first one by itself was insufficient.

32
CriticalDragon1177  Mar 10, 2016 • 12:27:02pm

re: #26 CriticalDragon1177

Okay you fixed it, thanks.

33
mroop  Mar 10, 2016 • 12:36:00pm

re: #32 CriticalDragon1177

Okay you fixed it, thanks.

I didn’t fix it, it was an Amazon glitch. I never heard of Majestic 12, but googling for 2 minutes shows that Majestic 12 seems to be generally considered as a hoax.


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