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1
Eric The Fruit Bat  Apr 30, 2016 • 9:09:28pm

I read the article and to me is screams more of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Anyone who introduces legislation that doesn’t grandfather

Granted. there isn’t a whole lot you can do with the millions of firearms already out in the hand of ordinary citizens outside of going all MADD-like when a toddler grabs a unsecured firearm and kills himself or someone else (which in this last week, we had 6 events and five deaths.)

To me, it’s high time that we hold firearm owners to the same standard we hold drunk drivers when it comes to the havoc they wreak when they get careless instead of calling these things a tragedy-it wouldn’t have been a tragedy if you had your head on straight in the first place.

2
Dark_Falcon  Apr 30, 2016 • 9:16:33pm

re: #1 Eric The Fruit Bat

I read the article and to me is screams more of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Granted. there isn’t a whole lot you can do with the millions of firearms already out in the hand of ordinary citizens outside of going all MADD-like when a toddler grabs a unsecured firearm and kills himself or someone else (which in this last week, we had 6 events and five deaths.)

To me, it’s high time that we hold firearm owners to the same standard we hold drunk drivers when it comes to the havoc they wreak when they get careless-especially when we’re talking about a constitutional right vs. a privilege.

What the article is saying is that given the way that gun control laws get made in this country, a viable ‘smart gun’ cannot avoid posing a legislative threat to all ‘non-smart’ firearms. Sooner or later, some anti-gun politician would impose a smart gun mandate, even if they initially denied that they intended to do so.

3
William Lewis  Apr 30, 2016 • 9:56:46pm

Rather than a technological solution, and the failure of the CA microstamping legislation is a case in point, I think a better solution is already available.

The weapons that cause the biggest problems are short barreled and easily concealed handguns. Instead of smart gun requirements, make any firearm with a barrel of less than 100 cm (3.9”) be an NFA regulated firearm, requiring a tax stamp similar to the AOW stamp and equally inexpensive. The additional tracking requirements and paper trail will decrease the number of the most dangerous firearms being diverted into the black market. That an AOW level of regulation is not an onerous burden or impingement upon ones constitutional rights is show by the current surge in ownership of suppressors. This would also allow for a easy grandfather me hands by not requiring a stamp until the next time the firearm is sold. A possibility is to allow the treatment of the stamps to be similar to automotive license plates/titles and their sale and transfer.

What would you think of that model of regulation, DF?

4
Dark_Falcon  May 1, 2016 • 12:54:10pm

re: #3 William Lewis

Funding for ATF processing of such applications would have to be accelerated massively, since at present it takes over 6 months to get an AOW approved. A wait time of over a month is unacceptable for the purchase of common items such a handgun. Further, exceptions would need to be made available for cases where someone is fear for their life, such as someone faced with a violent stalker.

The other needed thing would be to change the requirement to get the signature of the Chief Law Enforcement Officer (CLEO) of the municipality in which one resides to that person’s office being advised of handgun purchases. The CLEO would be allowed to object but only for good cause. This last is to keep sheriffs or police chiefs from imposing de facto bans of handguns, to also to make sure that the new policy does not enable the creation of situations where (for example) black neighborhoods are designated as “crime-ridden” as an excuse to disarm a minority.

5
Citizen Bob  May 1, 2016 • 2:03:44pm

I am unable to separate this author’s horrible “damn libruls” tone from any niggling legal point he demands we address. He seems very angry, and is a good candidate for a background check. If he thinks it is completely beyond the pale to wait one month of your life for a new handgun, he won’t be reasoned with. He begins with “from my cold, dead hands” and attempts to justify it with logic, but never drops the underlying threatening tone. When these folks get criticized, they immediately start hopping up and down about “second amendment solutions.”

For DF to demand that we stay within the pretzel logic of this piece and not comment on other things is also hilarious.

6
kirkspencer  May 1, 2016 • 2:52:41pm

There is a terrible habit among those objecting to any restriction or control of firearms of using the slippery slope argument excessively. This person - and Dark in post #2 - make claims of inevitability of crossing the slippery slope regardless.

We can’t do x because eventually someone will use it for y which is an extension, not intended, and bad (absolute or in the speaker’s opinion).

That absolute use is, well, there’s a line from the Incredibles that I’ve taken to borrowing. If everything is a slippery slope, then nothing is a slippery slope.

If the only argument for not doing something is someone might abuse it, there is no valid argument. Everything can be abused (Rule 34 notwithstanding).

Want a good argument, one that will actually be listened to by more than gun owners? Try this one. It’s almost certain this will not be perfect. It won’t be perfectly useless, it won’t be perfectly effective. How effective would it be at it’s intended goal, and is that enough to make it worth the cost - direct and indirect, owner and societal - of developing and deploying this technology?

I don’t know. What I do know is the absolutist rhetoric I see in this article isn’t convincing me he’s actually thought through the issue, and certainly hasn’t convinced me the NRA is right to oppose this technology.

7
CuriousLurker  May 1, 2016 • 3:21:33pm

The author shoving a giant photo of a gun in my face right off the bat—regardless of whether it’s a “smart” gun or not—is a deal breaker. Sorry, but I’m not reading it. I’m sick of those kinds of photos whether they’re in the hands of a liberal, an independent, a conservative, a terrorist, a “freedom” fighter, or whatever. Police/soldiers? Okay, because it’s part of their job. Hunters? Okay, when they’re hunting. Other than that, get that crap out of my face and stuff it where the sun doesn’t shine.

You know why? Because sudden encounters with things that are perceived as deadly threats, be they animate or inanimate, trigger people’s “Fight or Flight” stress response. It’s an instinctive reaction that’s completely involuntary—even for trained police—because it’s a biological/chemical reaction.

It angers me when someone purposely triggers that reaction in me with a photo like that, even if I quickly realize it’s not a real threat. So, yeah, if he can’t approach me in a civilized, non-threatening way,1 then he & whatever he has to say can piss right off.

In the photo a hand is pointing a gun, and despite the guy’s finger not being on the trigger it’s still threatening. Why not show a gun in a case, holster, etc.? IMO it’s because they intend it to be threatening. WTF do they do that? Does it give them a stiffy?

Assholes.

8
Citizen Bob  May 1, 2016 • 6:43:11pm

Next article: “Why the NRA Hates Smarts”

9
Dark_Falcon  May 1, 2016 • 6:44:13pm

re: #7 CuriousLurker

The gun is question is the Armatix ‘smart gun’ and it is loathed by those who like guns, being an underengineered piece of crap.

As for the photo, don’t be quick to blame the author, since on many sites the author does not have control over the photo that is used. Feel free to blame the site, but before blaming the author we should make sure that he had some control over the image used.

10
Great White Snark  May 2, 2016 • 9:03:47am

re: #9 Dark_Falcon

Upding for a worthwhile subject. Moving forward I think we can get images less stark or potentially upsetting, usually Google images or we can use the private feature.

Also thinking again how far the NRA has gone from what a lot of gun owners or even range rental customers want. I’d love a device to keep anyone else from firing it. Assuming it’s reliable etc. of course.

11
CuriousLurker  May 2, 2016 • 10:45:35am

re: #9 Dark_Falcon

The gun is question is the Armatix ‘smart gun’ and it is loathed by those who like guns, being an underengineered piece of crap.

As for the photo, don’t be quick to blame the author, since on many sites the author does not have control over the photo that is used. Feel free to blame the site, but before blaming the author we should make sure that he had some control over the image used.

Hence I ended with “Assholes” (plural).

12
dangerman  May 2, 2016 • 2:43:29pm

re: #1 Eric The Fruit Bat

To me, it’s high time that we hold firearm owners to the same standard we hold drunk drivers when it comes to the havoc they wreak when they get careless instead of calling these things a tragedy-it wouldn’t have been a tragedy if you had your head on straight in the first place.

Why has the drive to develop smart gun technology continued with enthusiasm? (sensor based, not mechanical safety, levers, etc.) Probably partly to see what new technology can do. Mostly it’s expected return on investment not altruism.

For certain professions, or if you’re concerned your weapon might be taken from you and used on you or otherwise, that seems a limited market.

It’s clear who wouldn’t want to buy one or think they’re necessary. What’s the mass market driver? Not sure I see one.

The “need” to have one is going to be created.
Why is that? It’s not to create an industry, job development, and ROI.


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