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1
CuriousLurker  Jun 23, 2016 • 11:56:58am

The watchlist problems aren’t going to be addressed let alone fixed as long as Republicans in Congress are more concerned with “winning” (whatever that means nowadays) and obstructing Democrats.

Likewise, there will be no universal background check, which I’ve heard you mention before, as long as the GOP is more worried about placating the NRA & gun manufacturers than they are about the safety of American citizens.

2
Great White Snark  Jun 23, 2016 • 11:59:37am

re: #1 CuriousLurker
What that gives us is a trifecta of semi-illegality. FBI, Homeland security and the GOP. They can’t fix it if they wanted to or so they say. Sources and methods etc etc.

I think it’s a mistake to focus entirely on the GOP and NRA on this one. we have to keep our eye on the basic checks and balances that protects us from those guys. Meaning FBI and Motherland, oops I mean Homeland Security.

3
CuriousLurker  Jun 23, 2016 • 12:17:26pm

re: #2 Great White Snark

What that gives us is a trifecta of illegality. FBI, Homeland security and the GOP.

And we keep dying, not the members of the NRA, gun manufacturers, or Congress (though Gabrielle Giffords very nearly did)—none of it touches them. They don’t care. I have some work I need to get done, so I’ll just leave this here. Emphasis mine:

Why more than 100 gun control proposals in Congress since 2011 have failed

Over just the past five years, lawmakers have introduced more than 100 gun control proposals in Congress, since Gabrielle Giffords and 18 other people were shot in Tucson, Arizona in January 2011.

Not one of them has been passed into law, and very few of the proposals even made it to the House or Senate floor. […]

Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, D-New York, who retired from Congress in 2015, spent 18 years on Capitol Hill fighting to renew the assault weapons ban, close the gun show loophole or ban high-capacity magazines. Her husband was killed and her son was severely injured when a gunman shot passengers on a Long Island Rail Road commuter train in 1993. McCarthy repeatedly introduced these proposals in every Congress, but none of them passed muster.

The National Rifle Association’s (NRA) stranglehold over Congress is largely responsible for the inaction. According to the Center for Responsive Politics, the NRA spent more than $3 million on federal lobbying efforts in 2013 and 2014.

In the 2016 elections, the powerful gun group has some $14 million to spend in the 2016 elections, and NRA Executive Director Chris Cox vowed to target members perceived to be interfering in the rights of Americans to bear arms.

“The politicians who want to divert attention away from the underlying problems that suggest that we’re somehow to blame will pay a price for it,” Cox said on ABC News’ “This Week.” […]

While the inaction at the federal level remains in the spotlight, Sen. Chris Murphy, D-Connecticut is confident gun control advocates will eventually prevail. […]

“Republicans, eventually, are going to face the wrath of the electorate,” he said. “I think voters are going to start elevating the issue of guns on their priority list and start kicking out of office senators who vote to hand terrorists guns, who vote against requiring that criminals go through a background check. Voters, I think, are going to have to make this decision at the polls.”

The NRA gets away with openly threatening lawmakers, and not a single one has the cojones to stand up to them. They’re pathetic. *spit*

4
blueraven  Jun 23, 2016 • 5:31:31pm

Oh my. Lord help us all if someone has to wait three freaking days to get their gun.

If the watch/no fly lists are messed up then let’s fucking FIX them. There is no incentive to do so as long as they can be used as an excuse.

What is the right thing? Doing nothing seems to be the answer. There is always something wrong with every plan…Gun rights!! How about the right to LIVE? How did that get so low on the rights for Americans?

Oh how I wish republicans were as concerned about other rights like VOTING and other such trivial matters.

*spit*

5
Great White Snark  Jun 23, 2016 • 6:19:59pm

re: #4 blueraven

Maybe you missed a couple important points here. First, this Page has NOTHING to do with the NRA or GOP. No more than the ACLU itself does. Next you can’t “fix” an imposition of our right to travel like that. No more so than the things that are or were wrong with the Patriot Act. The 100 mile border zone. The correct thing is end it. The FBI director said they can’t add due process because that would open up their sources and methods, give away their game to the real bad guys. Let the light of this day sunburn it.

Oh it seems like a nice shiny toy, dangling like a gem in a pendant because gun control. I can imagine the glee at FBI. Oh My. But it’s crap, an utter smeared turd pile still not demonstrated to have accomplished anything more than gitmo or torture did.

6
blueraven  Jun 23, 2016 • 7:39:16pm

Impose on our right to travel? Give me a goddamn break. Where is that in the constitution?

If someone is on the watch/fly list that shouldn’t be then there should be a way to get them off of it. Yes, it would be an imposition. But don’t tell me it cant be fixed. I refuse to believe that. It takes a will and some effort and some compromise.

I am sick of the purist crap. Over guns! Always over gun rights. Gun rights over human rights. And don’t tell me it is not about the NRA and the GOP.

The ACLU can point out some issues, but if the NRA and GOP wouldn’t block every goddamn suggestion, idea, proposal…and instead work to create solutions this would have been fixed long ago.

7
Great White Snark  Jun 24, 2016 • 5:57:37am

re: #6 blueraven

Are you that unfamiliar with the 14th Amendment? Your facts are NOT in order. It’s called the 14th Amendment and lots of case law to specifically back this up in detail.
law.justia.com

The doctrine of the “right to travel” actually encompasses three separate rights, of which two have been notable for the uncertainty of their textual support. The first is the right of a citizen to move freely between states, a right venerable for its longevity, but still lacking a clear doctrinal basis.1858 The second, expressly addressed by the first sentence of Article IV, provides a citizen of one State who is temporarily visiting another state the “Privileges and Immunities” of a citizen of the latter state.1859 The third is the right of a new arrival to a state, who establishes citizenship in that state, to enjoy the same rights and benefits as other state citizens. This right is most often invoked in challenges to durational residency requirements, which require that persons reside in a state for a specified period of time before taking advantage of the benefits of that state’s citizenship.

1858 Saenz v. Roe, 526 U.S. 489 (1999). “For the purposes of this case, we need not identify the source of [the right to travel] in the text of the Constitution. The right of free ingress and regress to and from’ neighboring states which was expressly mentioned in the text of the Article of Confederation, may simply have been conceived from the beginning to be a necessary concomitant of the stronger Union the Constitution created.”’ Id. at 501 (citations omitted).

1859 Paul v. Virginia, 75 U.S. (8 Wall.) 168, 180 (1868) (“without some provision … removing from citizens of each State the disabilities of alienage in other States, and giving them equality of privilege with citizens of those States, the Republic would have constituted little more than a league of States; it would not have constituted the Union which now exists.”).

ACLU “point out some issues?!” What a colossal understatement. if you want to attach to NRA what I have to say despite all my comments and proofs to the contrary fine. But that is solely an invention, a distortion you are insisting on that has nothing to do with me.

Boarding passes- “Shall Issue” unless a judge signs off. period. I don’t want to hear we can walk to NYC from San Diego.

8
blueraven  Jun 24, 2016 • 6:11:04am

I am not going to go into this right to travel issue except to say, of course you have a right to move from state to state. You do not have the explicit right to board an airplane, a train, or a bus. There can be restrictions.

And you keep ignoring the fact that because of the NRA and the GOP, there are objections to each and every method of gun safety legislation. There is no chance of working out the issues because of their intransigence.

9
Great White Snark  Jun 24, 2016 • 6:40:31am

re: #8 blueraven

Yes and those restrictions all include due process, not arbitrary. Do you not see the difference between the ease of getting a drivers license and all the rules that apply to both sides of that, and the no fly list? Look closer. To say we have a right to a thing is not to say there can be no rules.

I’m not ignoring anything, you are ignoring my efforts to advocate on my own, and keep burdening me with organizations I work to oppose. A factor that I’m running out of patience for. I don’t burden you with what the Greens of Code Pink has to say. I’ll ask for the same courtesy in return.

If you would like to be updated on how travel and the law actually works, check out this brand new Page. littlegreenfootballs.com

10
blueraven  Jun 24, 2016 • 7:14:03am

re: #9 Great White Snark

Yes and those restrictions all include due process, not arbitrary

Oh sure, like when other passengers complain and get travelers bumped because they spoke Arabic. Where is the due process?

I do not blame you for the NRA or GOP. I am just saying they block every avenue. And they are the reason nothing gets done. You may be right and we should get rid of the “lists”. But for now we have them, and if someone is on them they should be under extra scrutiny before obtaining a gun. The excuse of not being able to fix it does not fly…ahem.

Also, obviously, as I stated. People have a right to travel from city to city, state to state. They do not have a right to necessarily board a plane, train, or bus…so strawman.

11
Great White Snark  Jun 24, 2016 • 7:51:51am

re: #10 blueraven

Oh sure, like when other passengers complain and get travelers bumped because they spoke Arabic. Where is the due process?

I do not blame you for the NRA or GOP. I am just saying they block every avenue. And they are the reason nothing gets done. You may be right and we should get rid of the “lists”. But for now we have them, and if someone is on them they should be under extra scrutiny before obtaining a gun. The excuse of not being able to fix it does not fly…ahem.

Also, obviously, as I stated. People have a right to travel from city to city, state to state. They do not have a right to necessarily board a plane, train, or bus…so strawman.

Your arabic speaking passenger makes my point shine. Thanks for not lumping me in with NRA. Understand I’m working against the NRA. And doing that from the inside of the shooting sports.

12
blueraven  Jun 24, 2016 • 8:05:58am

re: #11 Great White Snark

Your arabic speaking passenger makes my point shine. Thanks for not lumping me in with NRA. Understand I’m working against the NRA. And doing that from the inside of the shooting sports.

No, it really doesn’t. These people were not on any list. People can be denied boarding an airplane for arbitrary reason with no due process even without being on a list. Not by the government, but by the airline.

13
Great White Snark  Jun 24, 2016 • 8:44:41am

re: #12 blueraven

Actually the pilot also has final absolute authority for everyone and every thing that boards. Like a ships captain, maritime law kinda thing. AFAIK that airline, and perhaps the passenger are subject to civil penalty afterword. If a jury will rule favorably. What this does is illustartes the danger of not having a proper process through and through. But hey lets move on. I bet you will love the law in my latest Page. I do.


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