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1
CuriousLurker  Nov 14, 2016 • 10:32:39am

Down-ding for criticizing other LGF members without naming anyone, and for doing it in the Pages where it’s unlikely to be seen by most. I can fix the latter for you though.

2
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 14, 2016 • 10:41:20am

re: #1 CuriousLurker

Down-ding for criticizing other LGF members without naming anyone, and for doing it in the Pages where it’s unlikely to be seen by most. I can fix the latter for you though.

Not only that, but coaching the criticism by “paraphrasing” comments is not just disingenuous, it’s downright fraudulent.

3
allegro  Nov 14, 2016 • 10:53:08am

It’s also entirely ignoring the entire message of the Clinton campaign that was one of inclusion and a statement of understanding the problems of all Americans. She talked extensively about the issues of rural America and those small dead and dying towns and offered practical solutions and help. She advanced education, training for new industries and ideas for bringing jobs back to depressed areas. She addressed the very needs and concerns that are being discussed above as having been ignored because Borg mind. Or something. Dishonesty or ignorance? Gotta be one or the other because it sure isn’t reality.

4
Sherlock Hound  Nov 14, 2016 • 10:59:33am

I was hoping for insight, but instead just got strawmen.

5
EiMitch  Nov 14, 2016 • 12:52:33pm

re: #1 CuriousLurker

Down-ding for criticizing other LGF members without naming anyone, and for doing it in the Pages where it’s unlikely to be seen by most

I was trying to keep this impersonal and discuss ideas and talking points. As for being unlikely to be seen, speak for yourself. This page made it to the Featured Pages for awhile.

re: #2 Backwoods_Sleuth

Not only that, but coaching the criticism by “paraphrasing” comments is not just disingenuous, it’s downright fraudulent.

Not it isn’t. Passing them off as direct quotes would be fraudulent. I’ve heard such arguments elsewhere, not just LGF. I paraphrased to keep it impersonal. I was up-front about this.

re: #3 allegro

It’s also entirely ignoring the entire message of the Clinton campaign that was one of inclusion and a statement of understanding the problems of all Americans. She talked extensively about the issues of rural America and those small dead and dying towns and offered practical solutions and help. She advanced education, training for new industries and ideas for bringing jobs back to depressed areas. She addressed the very needs and concerns that are being discussed above as having been ignored because Borg mind. Or something.

I’ve been inside the liberal bubble throughout this election. Late Night with Stephen Colbert, Full Frontal with Samantha Bee, here at LGF, etc. And all I’ve heard from/about Clinton campaign was about small businesses, infrastructure, green energy. If there was anything more than that, I haven’t heard it. Possibly because it was drowned out by constantly drawing attention to Trump’s racism, misogyny, and terrible business practices. Considering that, how well do you think the message was conveyed outside our bubble?

Blame the Clinton campaign for terrible messaging. Blame the media. Blame ourselves collectively. But don’t impugn my honesty.

Btw, is it alright with you if I directly quote your argument, since some people seem to have a problem with paraphrasing? Except for the last part of course. To keep it impersonal.

re: #4 Sherlock Hound

I was hoping for insight, but instead just got strawmen.

Could you name one in particular, and explain what exactly you think is wrong about it? Only one out you four even bothered to try.

My main point is that we need to engage outside of our bubble more, to try to educate ourselves and each other. But three of you clearly missed that point, preferring to stick with shaming people you disagree with and leaving it at that. And how did that work out this year? Oh right. A bigoted, sexually predatory charlatan got elected.

So go on you guys. Keep doing more of the same and expecting different results. And placing the entire blame for failures on “the others” while claiming to be above that in the same breath. Even if it’s someone from within trying to humanize the opposition. You’ve proved my main point, making this a hollow victory for each of us.

6
wrenchwench  Nov 14, 2016 • 1:36:01pm

New Mexico has lots of rural. New Mexico has some places too sparsely populated to qualify as rural. They call this stuff ‘frontier’. There is also some urban in NM.

New Mexico went for Hillary. Maybe ruralness is not the meaningful factor anywhere.

7
EiMitch  Nov 14, 2016 • 1:51:04pm

re: #6 wrenchwench

I hate to say it, but you’re cherry-picking. Every state has lot of rural. Urban centers take up about 4% of America’s land mass. And New Mexico is hardly the only state with “frontier” lands.

Edit: also, check which way each county voted. I’ve stated in my previous two pages that this presents a clearer picture than who won each state.

8
wrenchwench  Nov 14, 2016 • 1:52:31pm

New Mexico has lots of rural. New Mexico has some places too sparsely populated to qualify as rural. They call this stuff ‘frontier’. There is also some urban in NM.

New Mexico went for Hillary. Maybe ruralness is not the meaningful factor anywhere.re: #7 EiMitch

I hate to say it, but you’re cherry-picking. Every state has lot of rural. Urban centers take up about 4% of America’s land mass. And New Mexico is hardly the only state with “frontier” lands.

I wasn’t claiming uniqueness for NM. I was claiming the opposite.

9
EiMitch  Nov 14, 2016 • 1:53:53pm

re: #8 wrenchwench

Quick reply. I edited my response while you wrote that.

Edit: Also, it’s still cherry picking. You’re showing an exception, and claiming that disproves the rule without further explanation.

10
EiMitch  Nov 14, 2016 • 1:55:48pm

Edit: My mistake. I added another reply instead of editing my last one.

11
wrenchwench  Nov 14, 2016 • 1:58:51pm

re: #7 EiMitch

I hate to say it, but you’re cherry-picking. Every state has lot of rural. Urban centers take up about 4% of America’s land mass. And New Mexico is hardly the only state with “frontier” lands.

Edit: also, check which way each county voted. I’ve stated in my previous two pages that this presents a clearer picture than who won each state.

I looked for a map telling me that. Did not find. Do not care. Then I’d have to find out the makeup of each county demographically. Prove your own point.

re: #10 EiMitch

Edit: My mistake. I added another reply instead of editing my last one.

You did both.

12
CuriousLurker  Nov 14, 2016 • 2:25:45pm

re: #5 EiMitch

My main point is that we need to engage outside of our bubble more, to try to educate ourselves and each other. But three of you clearly missed that point, preferring to stick with shaming people you disagree with and leaving it at that.

Right, because since the election all your ragging on liberals and asserting that they’ve been in a bubble (speak for yourself) wasn’t about “shaming,” right? Or is it only shaming when someone disagrees with you? Have you ever ever considered that perhaps your criticism would be more constructive if it wasn’t being delivered accompanied by sarcasm and self-righteous finger wagging, telling people about all their faults? You obviously don’t like it, so why should anyone else?

You’ve been a member here for just over 2000 days, yet you have less than 2000 comments and only 77 pages, many of which are links to Cracked, FFS.

My point? Why have you waited until now to say something if you’ve been seeing a long-term problem? Why haven’t you participated more in the main threads and interacted with people here in a non-confrontational way instead of assuming that you know where everyone is coming from—e.g. if someone says something that bothers you, don’t automatically assume you know what they mean because your confirmation bias (and it affects everyone, including me) can easily cause you to misinterpret what someone’s saying and/or what their reasons are for saying it.

And how did that work out this year? Oh right. A bigoted, sexually predatory charlatan got elected.

Are you saying Trump’s election is the fault of liberals? Because that’s what it looks like you’re saying. If so, guess what? You can piss right off.

Are there things the Democratic party could have done better? Yes. Are there things that need to be improved? Yes. But the GOP and only the GOP is responsible Trump, so don’t you dare try to blame the election of that narcissistic, racist, bigoted, pathologically lying POS on liberals.

As a Muslim belonging to a group that’s been collectively & consistently demonized for the 15+ years since September 11, I, for one, have HAD MY FUCKING FILL OF BEING BLAMED FOR SHIT I DIDN’T DO.

13
EiMitch  Nov 14, 2016 • 6:49:44pm

re: #11 wrenchwench

I looked for a map telling me that. Did not find. Do not care. Then I’d have to find out the makeup of each county demographically. Prove your own point.

Funny, I entered “us presidential election map 2016 county” into google, and this was the first result: www-personal.umich.edu

And here is the map:

Not much different from the 2012 map:

I didn’t say anything about searching county info in detail. But since you brought it up, go here: politico.com

Then scroll down to any state you want to examine by county, and click “Detailed Results” in blue text on the right.

You’ve been spoon-fed. Now quit living in denial of the urban/countryside divide. It’s real.

14
EiMitch  Nov 14, 2016 • 7:13:10pm

re: #12 CuriousLurker

You’re the one who is interested in drama right now. The fact that you’re dredging up personal details about me, despite their lack of relevance to the conversation, proves that you’re being entirely emotional right now. While understandable, it’s the opposite of helpful. You’re not thinking clearly.

My point? Why have you waited until now to say something if you’ve been seeing a long-term problem?

I didn’t see it coming. I was in the same bubble as you, blinded by political polarization. The election results were a sobering wake-up call. I’ve been trying to understand where we went wrong, what & how we miscalculated, and how to move forward from here.

But you’re taking any suggestion that we bear any of the blame whatsoever rather personally. You’ve chosen to take solace in the same “Oh! Oh! Let’s point and laugh at how dumb conservatives are” habit, while lashing out at anyone who suggests that habit might have contributed to this mess.

I’m not saying you shouldn’t be angry. But don’t take it out on me. Remember that Trump is the enemy. Not I. Nor the desperate people that Trump suckered.

Here is a video about video games. It sounds totally off-topic and out of left field, but it has a moral that applies pretty much anywhere, including here. (warning: NSFW)

A Lesson In Five Nights (The Jimquisition)

15
EiMitch  Nov 14, 2016 • 7:17:57pm

re: #3 allegro

I’m going to add a paraphrased version of your comment to the page above. If you give me permission to quote you, I’ll change it to the exact quote.

16
CuriousLurker  Nov 14, 2016 • 8:55:07pm

re: #14 EiMitch

You’re the one who is interested in drama right now. The fact that you’re dredging up personal details about me, despite their lack of relevance to the conversation, proves that you’re being entirely emotional right now. While understandable, it’s the opposite of helpful. You’re not thinking clearly.

Personal details about you? What personal details? Everything I’ve said is verifiable & publicly available. Relevance? You’re the one who took the liberty of “paraphrasing” many people here and assigning intentions to them—that’s what this whole damned page is about—yet you’ve rarely interacted with any of us. Passive-aggressive much? When was the last time you approached me and tried to get to know me or have a civil conversation with me? Go find a link to a comment or comments where you did so, I’ll wait.

Men love throwing out that “you’re being emotional, not thinking clearly” crap when they’re arguing with women. Stop it—it’s LAME.

I didn’t see it coming. I was in the same bubble as you, blinded by political polarization. The election results were a sobering wake-up call. I’ve been trying to understand where we went wrong, what & how we miscalculated, and how to move forward from here.

And now, like the apostle Paul, the scales have suddenly fallen from your eyes, rendering you fit to pass judgement on the rest of us and tell us how we got it all wrong? Try not talking down to people—it pisses them right the hell off, rendering civil discourse well nigh impossible. It also makes you come across incredibly smug.

As for living in a bubble, screw you. Try living as a female, an ethnic minority and a religious minority for 10 or 20 or 50 years, then come back and tell me about the fucking “bubble” I live in. The stupid, it burns.

But you’re taking any suggestion that we bear any of the blame whatsoever rather personally. You’ve chosen to take solace in the same “Oh! Oh! Let’s point and laugh at how dumb conservatives are” habit, while lashing out at anyone who suggests that habit might have contributed to this mess.

You’re exaggerating. Again. Provide proof or STFU.

I’m not saying you shouldn’t be angry. But don’t take it out on me. Remember that Trump is the enemy. Not I. Nor the desperate people that Trump suckered.

As long as you’re wagging your finger at me (and others) telling us we need to understand the spiteful, self-pitying assholes who’ve elevated a narcissistic, bigoted racist to the highest office in the U.S. because they want “their” country back, and saying we need to accept some of the blame for their choices and inability to adjust to the changing world around them, I’m guaranteed to continue taking it out on you.

Y’know, if you were half as fucking smart & insightful as you imagine yourself to be, you’d understand why you’re getting a bad reaction from me (and others). There are a LOT of people on this blog with a LOT of different personal situations WRT health, family, finances. etc. yet you act as if we’re all just a bunch of upper middle class, latte sipping, big city liberals who don’t understand what it’s like to suffer hardship. Seems you don’t even realize that you’re (still) trapped in your own little bubble.

You have four eyes for others and are blind to yourself.
—Persian proverb

17
CuriousLurker  Nov 14, 2016 • 8:58:43pm

re: #11 wrenchwench

Must be tough living in that bustling urban metropolis you live in over in NM. //

18
EiMitch  Nov 14, 2016 • 9:04:06pm

re: #16 CuriousLurker
Your latest reply is incoherent. I decided against reporting you last time, but this is getting ridiculous.

19
CuriousLurker  Nov 14, 2016 • 9:09:23pm

re: #18 EiMitch

Your latest reply is incoherent. I decided against reporting you last time, but this is getting ridiculous.

By all means report away, but before you do you might want to note that Charles down-dinged your page also. As a matter of fact, here, I’ll do it for you.

I see you’re stirring up shit in other threads too. You can take that finger you’re wagging at everyone and SHOVE IT.

20
CuriousLurker  Nov 14, 2016 • 9:10:47pm

re: #19 CuriousLurker

As a matter of fact, here, I’ll do it for you.

All done!

21
EiMitch  Nov 14, 2016 • 9:14:16pm

re: #19 CuriousLurker

What I said in that comment you linked to was far more civil than you’ve been in your previous few comments here.

22
CuriousLurker  Nov 14, 2016 • 9:23:06pm

re: #21 EiMitch

What I said in that comment you linked to was far more civil than you’ve been in your previous few comments here.

Uh-huh, okay.

23
bratwurst  Nov 14, 2016 • 9:24:31pm

re: #18 EiMitch

Your latest reply is incoherent. I decided against reporting you last time, but this is getting ridiculous.

Hey look, this post already exists in meme form!

24
jaunte  Nov 14, 2016 • 9:24:31pm

re: #18 EiMitch

I decided against reporting you last time

Niedermeyer? Is that you?

25
wrenchwench  Nov 15, 2016 • 11:03:03am

re: #13 EiMitch

Funny, I entered “us presidential election map 2016 county” into google, and this was the first result: www-personal.umich.edu

And here is the map:

You seem to have missed the part where I said I don’t care.

I didn’t say anything about searching county info in detail. But since you brought it up,

You said, ‘Edit: also, check which way each county voted. I’ve stated in my previous two pages that this presents a clearer picture than who won each state’ in your #7. I quoted it in my #11, showing that I saw it. Somehow you missed it, after you typed it.

You’ve been spoon-fed. Now quit living in denial of the urban/countryside divide. It’s real.

This is how you prove your point? ‘It’s real.’ ??!?

re: #18 EiMitch[This one is to CL]

Your latest reply is incoherent. I decided against reporting you last time, but this is getting ridiculous.

Charles knows CuriousLurker. You just showed him who you are,


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