This is better. The subject got trolled by people who argue as if from authority, really arrogantly. Like some of you (I think) I was commenting here since years before registration so I didn’t need anyone to suggest LGF doesn’t tolerate insulting Obama or Merkel or Cameron! Come on! That kind of kneejerk patriotic, off-point reaction is a load of crap if you wanted to discuss anything. People sometimes got like that about GWB. Sometimes about Obama. It isn’t how I pursue a frank conversation. And (@palmerskiss) that is absolute.

DarkFalcon, I expect that when Putin mobilises NATO mobilises, whatever else gets put on the table. He needs to know that is the deal. That doesn’t mean bombing Moscow, but defending the borders, unless Putin really wants to escalate that far. Even if he would we cannot just let him annexe back the Soviet empire. I was sorry for Georgia, and merely calling politicians “weak idiots” for resuming trade is a generous understatement. (NB Gender is as immaterial as everything she wrote but thank you anyway, best to know!)

Jayleia, there you are, you wouldn’t have tolerated Sochi. That’s a start. What about the World Cup? The other thing I asked for was that NATO stop pussyfooting around and get on Russia’s borders, at least in Ukraine. If Putin isn’t afraid to do this again it is because everyone eventually wants to trade with him again, so my post is bombastic because though I am not claiming to be a seer I have been raising this for some years and hearing the same from Eastern Europeans and nobody in power has an appetite to act. And then annoyingly this whole thread has been a weird evasion of the points, just repeated needling. I appreciate an on-topic opinion such as your own comment. It was never my intention listing some events from very recent history to educate anyone, so I wasn’t expecting those events to be challenged, and I had a punchy point to make. But I then made all that clear and there was still no actual discussion of the points before now.

Posters, as it happens Europe may be gearing for a response this time, and there is a lot of talk about non-military responses that might have some effect, so if anyone wanted to go through that, then really that’s the kind of reply I was inviting. Disagreement is welcome. Information and opinions are welcome.