I really would like to thank you Charles, and Foobear 2 for the very interesting discussion I have just read.

I have previously posted that I was uncomfortable with what I personally felt were excessively connotative comments on Ms Geller, which seem to have been moderated better now.

This argument is important, and it is also important that such people as FooBear 2 get to express their views, and get to be treated with courtesy, even when other disagree with them.

As I read it on other sites there are more and more Muslim speaking out against the high-jacking of their culture by extremists, and as someone who has worked in 99% Muslim countries I really think the the empowerment of the moderates is central and entirely critical to building a civilized world free of hate speech on any of the many sides to this question.

Ar Tariq Ramadan admitted on a recent interview there is an issue of authority in the Muslim culture, a problem which is entirely a Muslim problem, but which we can, from outside contribute to creating the right atmospherics for a solution by a sympathetic but no-nonsense approach.

We cannot take a disrespectful “parental stance, but at the same time anything less than standing firm on our requirements for civilized behaviour strengthens the extremists and weakens the moderates.

Again: a good discussion.