re: #267 Guanxi88

Mossad techniques run the gamut, from simple conversation, through psychological tricks and so forth, all the way up to the sort of physical discomfort techniques the thought of which can tie people up in knots as “torture.”

That said, if your objection to the enhanced techniques is on moral grounds, then say so; if on grounds of efficacy, then that’s a different matter altogether. But to object on moral grounds alone would suffice; bringing in efficacy concerns would make a cynic think you’re just utilitarian about it.

Fair enough. I object on both grounds. Morally, use of torture lowers us toward them. It makes an enemy fight harder for fear of it, recruit better because it can be used as another demonstration of our “evil”, and make it more likely our own people will encounter it should they ever fall into enemy hands.

As for efficacy, the way I read the IG report was that it may have been effective in some instances, but not uniquely or exclusively so. If you can get the information and still retain the high ground that is better.

Lastly, even if I grant that waterboarding is indeed more effective, and more timely, which I do not, it is still torture, and still something we should not condone. If an individual interrogator is dead certain there’s information hidden there, and he must extract it right now at any cost, he does what he believes and faces the music after. He may be vindicated by the saving of lives, but he - and any superiors who sanctioned him had better take personal responsibility for those actions.

I understand this may not be a popular opinion here. But it’s where I stand. Now I’m off. HAve a good weekend, all.