re: #771 E.T.

I would not rule out that Khalid Shaikh Mohammed would be able to withstand a considerable amount of torture. That does not reduce waterboarding to anything else than torture.

During WWII, the Gestapo questioned Norwegian resistance fighters. The Gestapo were hardly known for not practising torture. One of their methods was waterboarding. Many broke, revealing information useful to the Gestapo. Some managed to commit suicide. Others did not break, or only revealed information that they had all reason to believe the Gestapo already had knowledge off. Of course, the resistance movement was also partly built in a cell structure, preventing damage.

Another example: Rosa Robota and three other women involved with the socalled Sonderkommando revolt were tortured extensively by the Gestapo. According to most sources they revealed nothing. Strong convictions can have that effect. And while the anti-Nazi resistance were the good guys, and the jihadis are the bad guys; that effect is equally applicable.

KSMs confession - or the parts of it that we have been informed about, much may with good reason be kept from us - mostly details his involvement in things we already knew he was involved in or responsible for.

The more interesting question is whether information extracted through the use of torture is reliable. If I was submitted to waterboarding, I would probably admit to the murder of JFK, if that’s what I thought “they” wanted to hear. Just to make it stop. And I promise: I did not kill JFK.

To sum up: I agree with Charles that waterboarding is torture. I think it is not defendable except in very extreme cases. And I think that even when it could be defined as defendable, the resulting information will often prove to be worthless. Jack Bauer might get the information “24” needs to continue on to the next episode. In the battle against terrorisme, I doubt that it is a particularily successful method. What effect has the few known cases of US waterboarding these last few years had? Well, it has made for effective propaganda against the US. And it has given some other regimes an excellent opportunity to defend their use of torture.