re: #79 Hecuba’s daughter

But the Russians have been willing to suffer casualties that would lead other nations to rethink their objectives. It would seem that only the demise of Putin (however it came about) would lead to a Russian government that may stop this bloodbath. I fear for the ultimate outcome and the toll is taking on the people of Ukraine.

Yes, it appears that one of Putin’s goals is to continually traumatize the population of Ukraine. The goal is presumably to cause much of the population to simple give up and emigrate and the rest to simply surrender to the Russians.

That is why a lot of the experts are saying that Russia has to be defeated to the point that they cannot attempt another attack against Ukraine. Not easily done to a country with a large nuclear force.

Masha Gessen appears to think that the only way to stop Russia will be to force another national collapse and disintegration upon it.

I’m glad that we survived the original collapse of the Soviet Union. I do not know what a second collapse would involve. Both in terms of how we could get there without global war. Nor what the resulting global order would be. And how it would affect our own internal political and social order.

I think that is why the leadership in Germany, France, and people like Kissinger are so unenthusiastic about such an end result. As they say, interesting times.