Only 13%? I'm shocked.

The Brits should just wake up. They will probably elect the likes of Jenny Tongue and her gang of ass-shats when the muslims in the UK gas an Underground station.

Churchill must be rolling in his grave.

I weep for the Civilized world.

This is more interesting.

[Link: www.activistchat.com...]

*ring-ring*

"Ah, yeah, this is George Dubya. Is Bigel home? I need to speak to him about this so-called Samson scenario."

MI5 are all over these guys like a cheap suit.

Let them rant whilst we follow them to find the money men.

For too long Brits have supposed that their country is somehow insulated from the influence of the outside world, or immunised against it. This is no doubt partly because we were never invaded during WW2 or the Cold War. Well, this time, it's different.

Tired of heavy mental lifting? Join the RoP and let the

total ignorance set you free.

In light of the shockingly low 13%, the headline 'British Muslims back strikes on U.S.' is a bit misleading - even when you figure in the additional 15% 'undecided' vote.

It's still a sickening percentage, but mostly surprising because it's so small.

evariste, check your (fuse) mail.

I wonder what a similar poll in the US would show? After all, all muslims are victims...

For a plan that the Israeli right has developed to help rid the 5th column in Israel, check out the Benny Elon Plan:

www.geocities.com/letisraelwin/ElonPlan.html

But everyday becomes more pessimistic.

Much is being made about Spain's Socialist Win.

Personally I would put my bets that this change wont really affect much in Spain, let alone the WOT.

There's too much dissension between the Spanish people with a good half upset over this win and feeling as if they lost the vote due to them using the tragedy politically.

I don't believe, personally that the WOT will change much, other than some rhetoric he will spout time and time again to appease his voters.

I don't imagine he will be able to pull the few troops out of Iraq for to do so would ensure a one term post, nor can they afford to upset the US and need the money.

One the smoke clears, I don't think today's win is REALLY going to alter much of anything.

Many politicians when opponents, squawk as much as can be but once they find themselves in power, especially in such a situation, they often find that there best bet is to stay put.

Relax everyone...I don't think this is going to be the tragedy it is seen today as being.

That said?
I do believe Britain could be next and if so, I can ONLY hope whatever bombs do go off, don't kill any innocents but drop on all the Imans in Britain and their fans.

I wouldn't shed one tear.

cba-okey-doke!

It won't be too long before we see an EU/UN army fighting both America and Israel...

The British as a rule hate success stories and America IS a success story.

For years now, political correctness has inected our schools, media, local government and our political system.

We in the UK know that if you commit murder you may well get away with it, because the cutback in our police forces has been so dramatic. So while the police are arresting people for driving offences, murderers tend to get away scott free.

If, God forbid, you should protect your property and accidentally kill one of the thieves, you'll get put in jail for 5 years, BUT if someone breaks into your property and kills you, the chances of them being caught are next to nil.

The education system allows pupils to terrorise teachers and make false allegations against them, but teachers aren't allowed to discipline the children - and they wonder why there's a shortage of teachers!

Our deliquent youth instead of being punished for crimes they commit are sent to young offenders institutions and taken on luxury activity holidays all over the world because they come from "deprived" families, but kids who work hard at school and behave, even though their families may be on the breadline get no such luxuries!

All in all, the message in the UK is that crime DOES pay!

The looney left have taken over and they support global terrorism, or rather anything that's anti-America.

Europe is fast becoming a cesspool where terrorists and criminals get what they want, but law abiding citizens are penalised.

It's hardly surprising that those who can afford to leave the UK and live in better conditions and dmeocraticsed countries do so... where they can life a decent life and not be penalised for it.

Eventually the UK will be THE nanny state of Europe. Taxpayers will eventually get fed up with paying for immigrants who abuse the system and they'll leave to have a decent life elsewhere --- then who will fund the parasites?

Sadly the sickos in the UK have fallen for all the propaganda, hook, line and sinker and that's why Sheikh Mohammed Hook is still free to preach his hatred in Finsbury Park, being fully protected by his legal team and human rights protesters who are preventing his deportation, and defending his right to call for death to America...

I do believe it's time we stood up at the next General Assembly and told them, in no uncertain terms, that as long as these suicidal nations continue to perpetuate an air of defeatism and try to appease the Islamic hordes, that we will not waste our time and resources to protect them.

Announce the immediate closure of all US military facilities in countries that are not assisting us in this war, the immediate reassignment of all US military personnel from those facilities to ones that continue to operate, and the end of all arms sales from US manufacturers to foreign nations that are not assisting use in the war effort.

And then, to cap it all off, announce the US's withdrawal from the UN, inform them that as of this moment we are no longer footing the bills of this corrupt organization of thugs and dictators, and ordering the UN Headquarters be moved off US territory. Add that they should consider putting it some place more in line with their views of peace and morality.

After that, any nations willing to continue on with the US in the WoT are welcome to leave with us, we will continue to work with them, and point out that they may benefit in the long run from business dealings with the US.

Today's Sunday Times had as its main headline the story that MUSLIM terrorists looked likely to be responsible for the Madrid atrocity. I wish the rest of the British media would underline more the fact that it is Islamists that are behind all this murder. It is way past time to shame the Muslim community into cleaning out its rats nest.

The main change has to come from within the Muslim community. But in the meanwhile the Brits need far fiercer immigration controls - there is a running scandal this month that the Immigration Dept of the home Office are totally lax in their controls, with today's news being their failure to apply any real check on people who enter claiming to be students - with large numbers claiming to attend colleges that are plainly bogus.

Blair's government has lost control of immigration, and this has invited far too many badhats in, and shown Britain to be a soft touch.

Sadly (well, not to me), the only solution is for Britain, France, EU in general, as well as Canada and the U.S., o expell its Moslems. The sooner the better.

Target
Sadly if John "F'ing" Kerry gets elected, we will be bending over for the UN and taking it up the A**! Forgive my French but there is nothing I hate more than the UN!

#13 Nannette

Sheikh Mohammed Hook is the best PR weapon we could possibly have - one picture of him is enough to turn the stomach of any Brit with reasonable eyesight. On no account must we let the Americans extradite him.

#11 ShiksaGrrrl

I would have to disagree. Al Qa'eda conducted an experiment of sorts on Thursday, and the results are in. A small, expertly timed attack can achieve results that a 9/11-type spectacular does not. If you can't beat your enemies, you can select them. A certain type of terrorist attack can have politically helpful results. God help us all.

It is beginning to look like we may be in for a time of isolationism just for security reasons.
I agree, we should withdraw our troops from europe and let them fight the terror from within. We're going to be busy here pretty soon, cleaning up the mess we've been staring at without comprehension for way too long.
The problems are accelerating in europe, almost too fast to comprehend. This thing is going to war just about everywhere except in places like the deep amazon and the ice caps.
It's time to go allegator hunting folks. Bring along your dogs.

As a previous poster noted, I would like to see the numbers for Muslims in the US.

#20 quark2

Amen to that. Removing our troops from Europe is the way to go. We cannot help, Europe, if Europe doesn't want to be helped. The troops we have stationed there can be put to better use elsewhere.

#11 ShiksaGrrrl

A political commentator from the Conservative losing party is on now alluding to the same points made, and why he feels they will have no other choice but to continue on.

That said, it may not be as strong as before but he is claiming that it would be political suicide for them to turn against what the majority in spain wanted, but feel the vote was turned around due to political posturing.

Time will tell.
Personally, my bets are a big change will not take place.

A small, expertly timed attack can achieve results that a 9/11-type spectacular does not. If you can't beat your enemies, you can select them.

Im in Canada so I dont have access unfortunately to Fox News and have had to resort to the dreaded BBC for CNN hasnt been showing much.

On the BBC, they have been increasingly showing and speaking of the thousands gathering in the streets VERY angry at what they perceive as a stolen election, many blaming these 2 million kids and their cellphone/internet campaign which made sure each town had reps that would vote Socialist.

Its quite sad as this party NEVER assumed they would win and much is being made about them not even being nearly ready to govern! LOL

I would like to see a candidate run for president on the platform that he would expell all muslim immigrants immediately after taking office. I would bet he would be elected overwhelmingly. I am sick these people being in my country. I am tired of hearing them, seeing them...I would like to see all of their mosques torn down and for them to be told if you want to worship a culture of terror and death you're going to have to do it somewhere else on the planet. Not ever here again.
I would like to see an America with NO moslems...period.
If there are any here that disagree with my sentiments and feelings on this serious matter, that is your perogative. But that is where I now stand. I've been reading now for 2.5 years about death and it's always with the common denominator of islam. As far as I am concerned, this group has lost all right and freedom to be in this country under any circumstances.
Eventually they are going to cause a global war such as has never been witnessed in human history.

Sky TV's report on further signs of failure to control immigration into Britain :

NEW IMMIGRATION ROW

Immigration minister Beverley Hughes is facing fresh claims that checks on thousands of immigrants entering Britain are being waived.

Ms Hughes last week was forced to admit that officials operated an unofficial policy to "fast-track" self-employed eastern Europeans.

Leaked emails now suggest a blind eye is turned to bogus students and sham marriages that are 10 times the official number.

One email estimates 15,000 are entering Britain each year through sham marriages - compared with official figures of 1,700.

Another says officials have relaxed checks on students applying for courses as British courses.

The claims will place fresh pressure on Ms Hughes, who already faces calls to resign.

Steve Moxon, the civil service whistleblower who exposed the original unofficial policy, told the paper: "By far the two largest types of applications are students and marriages.

"Yet these are the case types which are dealt with by the most cavalier adherence to immigration legislation."

[Link: www.sky.com...]

I agree, it is time to let Europe fend for itself. We need a true policy of deterrence. Bush should call the Saudi Ambassador, Prince Bandar, into the Oval Office and tell him that if an Arab so much as sets off a firecracker in the United States, there will be no more pilgrimages to Mecca and Medina because there won't be any more Mecca and Medina. And then put some subs with nuclear tipped missiles in the Gulf. I hate to go to Fortress America, but the problem htat I have had with Bush's policy is that it requires the sustained support of the American people. I have no doubt that the media andthe Democrats would spin any attqck on America just like the Socialists did in Spain. They are alreeady trying to do that with 9/11. Just look at Joe Klein's column in this weeks Time. It is disgusting. The election in Spain is a real bummer-- I haven't felt this bad since 9/11.

Involuntary repatriation of Muslims from the USA to Muslim countries is seeming more and more like the answer. I am sorry to even think this, but my children's lives are in danger, and repatriation's the lesser evil.

#24 ShiksaGrrrl

Sure a lot of people are angry. The Left didn't steal this election at all. They just had better 'advertising' for their sick worldview. We now have a governing party in major European nation that relies on Islamofacists to win. This is an experiment that will be repeated in the future.

much is being made about them not even being nearly ready to govern! LOL

I'm sure they are surprised at their new fortunes, but they might remember where the 'help' came The Left doesn't 'govern' exactly, so much as facilitate theft from the productive to the non productive.

P.S. You nickname is a lot easier to type now. :-)

#26 JohninLondon

Did you catch the BBC's nasty little attempt to discredit Moxon, on the 'The Week' program?

Both the UK and the US need to start by introducing measures similar to the Dutch to prohibit the entry of any imams who can't speak the language or who have any connection with preaching violence.

I don't think this is a big deal at all.

What does the participation of Spain really get us in the war on terror? What component of the fight are they responsible for?

I don't know but it can't be much.

And the attack could have been interpreted in any way.

I think if they attacked the US, it would piss people off even more. Taking us a step closer to absolute open season on muslims.

So, the war continues. Today a weak ally sided with the enemy. But the war continues.

I meant the 'This Week' program, last Thursday.

#13, Nanette. If you do immigrate, you will feel right at home in California, as you have described the social situation rather well (and it is like quite a few other places in the US) however like the UK there are also some really nice people and and really great places (even in California) in the US.

Kelly

Yes - but Moxon is still speaking out, blowing the whistle. It would be good to see his disclosures force the resignation of the immigration minister - but that looks unlikely so far.

#32 theDevil!

It's a big deal insofar as other Leftists and their Islamist allies have seen the fruits of a tactical alliance with one another. Spain, I agree, hasn't been a huge help, but it has punched well above its weight for such a small country.

It will be interesting to watch a government try to appease Islamofascists at the same time as they try to be tough on terror, and take steps to avert another attack. How soon before Spain votes again?

Is this surprising to anyone here, sad!

George Bush needs to take out some "insurance" against such a strike in the United States. It's quite simple: tell the entire damned world that if the US suffers another terrorist strike - before, during or after the election - Mecca, Medina, Qom, and 200 or so other "targets of opportunity" (Aswan high dam, with a dirty nuke - think about it) will cease to exist. If the terrorists hit any of our friends, we will also retaliate. We need to put the fear of the TRUE God - and America's nuclear arsenal - into these perps, and follow through if we have to.

This is not a crime spree - this is a war to destroy Western civilization. It's time John Asshole Kerry was told to pack his bags and move to someplace else that might appreciate him - perhaps Lebanon...

#20 quark2

I agree, we should withdraw our troops from europe and let them fight the terror from within. We're going to be busy here pretty soon, cleaning up the mess we've been staring at without comprehension for way too long.

This is true. By this summer a lot of stuff will hopefully come together involving at least Syria, Lebanon and Iran. And even if we can't get our troops out of Europe fast enough, no matter. Spain and Britain can sit this next phase out. We might not even need Israel.

We may have lost Spain in the short term, but the jihadis will likely lose a big piece of their caliphate here pretty soon. A bit of hope in an otherwise very bad day.

quark2, ChesterT:

I'd like to see the IRS declare that Islam is a cult, not a religion, and revoke their tax exemption.

Much of the swing in Spain was because Aznar's PP tried to pin the blame too quickly on ETA. People objected very strongly to their government trying to spin the news over the atrocity. All part of the pattern of Governments failing to recognise the Muslim threat in their midst. What soccer afficionados would call an "own goal".

Incidentally, why wasn't Colin Powell among the other political leaders walking with the Madrilenos on Friday night ? Another failure of State Department diplomacy ?

Meanwhile the incoming Socialists have said they will make the fight against terrorism in all its forms their top priority. I bet that they do not pull their small number of troops out of Iraq any time soon.

#21 FH:

As a previous poster noted, I would like to see the numbers for Muslims in the US.

It depends on who you ask. Some estimates are 6.7 million and others are as low as 1.9-2.8 million.

JohninLondon/#42,

Much of the swing in Spain was because Aznar's PP tried to pin the blame too quickly on ETA.

I wonder, are these people who are so quick to blame Aznar's PP for believing ETA was responsible as quick to blame the UN for it's resolution condemning the attack and fingering the ETA as well?

My guess is no.

#43 Lively

Some estimates are 6.7 million and others are as low as 1.9-2.8 million.

I think the low numbers are from the US Census Bureau and the high ones are bandied about by, no surprise, CAIR and their cohorts. I think they even tried to foist 10 or 12 million on the media for a time, but it got no traction.

Worry me, worry me
Wellingtons don't worry me
Oil chewing bastards with flaps on their wings
Buggered up pistons, and buggered up rings
The bomb load is so fucking small
Four-fifths of five-eighths of fuck all
There'll be such a commotion when we're o'er the ocean
So, cheer up my lads, fuck 'em all

36

It's a big deal insofar as other Leftists and their Islamist allies have seen the fruits of a tactical alliance with one another.

I can see how it's important to 'them'. But they are the enemy and who cares whatever little, futile, triumphs they have once in a while.

It doesn't change the war. Nothing terrorism does will ever change this war.

The west will win, no matter the time frame involved or the tactics chosen.

#42 JohninLondon

The PP did play this one badly. A announcement to the effect of 'We'll know who did it when we know who did it' would have worked wonders. But the Socialists played their role marvelously. They have seen that an alliance of convience with the Islamists can pay handsome dividends.

#47 theDevil!

It worries me insofar as we don't really view the Left in this fashion. Attacks like this one could pick off our allies one at a time.

#46 hellcat

LOL!

No, the Wimpy wasn't the most elegant of creatures.

@40 paul

I do hope your information is true. I know there's lots going on underneath the radar.
The situation with the elections in Spain has me worried. A pattern has now been developed. What is to say that we won't have the same thing happen here 3 days before our presidential elections?
I am sick and tired of having incompetent, cowardly, socialist overlording us, I ready to see some good old fashioned jacksonians in office...and open up a huge can of whup ass on the creeps that is causing death and destruction all over the world.

I am sick these people being in my country. I am tired of hearing them, seeing them...I would like to see all of their mosques torn down and for them to be told if you want to worship a culture of terror and death you're going to have to do it somewhere else on the planet. Not ever here again.

Hmm, Quark, I really, really, really wish I could disagree with you. Really I do. But these bastards want to kill any of us who would resist and enslave our daughters. Why don't Europeans see that? Do they really hate the blessing of Western civilization so much that they favor Islamofacism? Or are they so busy with their pornographic culture that they don't notice?

#3 Sgt Canuck

This indeed may be the biggest story of this decade if the Iranians get it right, but obviously the Western media has no interest whatsover in what seems to be a popular uprising in Iran - the real Intifada!

After all, those young Iranians are totally unPC calling the Iranian "sort of democracy" (according to US State Department) an "evil regime". And calling for a democracy in Iran (never mind it's the Iranians who do the calling) is sorta intolerant of the traditional regimes of the Middle East - it's sorta "ideological colonialism". And much worse - some of those Iranians sound a lot like Bush...

And even worse than that, if the war in Iraq and the stand of the Bush administration on foreign policy in the Middle East had even the smallest contribution, even just moral support and a bit of hope, to the events in Iran, it might suggest that Bush wasn't all that wrong and evil and it might even have some effect on the elections.

Besides, the media and "leftists" wouldn't like to see their darling mullahs go - wouldn't that be a shame? Whom are they going to have "constructive dialogue" with if the mullahs are gone?

41 lmg

exactly

Living in London, I see much evidence for the cancerous presence of Islamic terrorism in the country. I have talked about this in my weblog too.

The truth is the Brits have allowed their island to become a breeding ground for terrorists, and now that policy is backfiring on them.

Antisemitism of the arrogant, racist left:

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

. . . and the response:

[Link: politics.guardian.co.uk...]

49

It worries me insofar as we don't really view the Left in this fashion. Attacks like this one could pick off our allies one at a time.

That is true as true can be.

I watched Mr. Rumsfeld on Face the Nation today. And I was struck by how congenial he behaved towards a hostile host and hostile guest.

Mr. Rumsfeld behaved as though he wanted to be friends with the leftist Shiefer and mixed Friedman. Never once was there a look down his nose with suspicion or contempt.

Mr. Rumsfeld was almost pleading in his behavior towards these obvious tools of the left.

I felt almost pity for Mr. Rumsfeld watching how he behaved towards these vile cretins.

But, you're right. I think Americans still think the leftists are acting with noble or good intentions.

It's naive, pathetic, and deadly, these days.

But, I'm still not worried, long term. We will win the war only with more casualties than needed to be. But make no mistake we will win.

43 Lively

in America we can;t count muslims, but we can count mosques

there are about 1200 mosques in the USA

one thousand people per mosque?

lol

i dont think so..

here it is

[Link: www.glenmary.org...]

The 149 reporting bodies can be classified as
• Protestant, with 66 million adherents in 222,000 congregations;
• Catholic, with 62 million adherents in nearly 22,000 congregations;
• Jewish, with 6 million adherents in 3,727 congregations (this data is based on different estimating procedures; see appendix of the book);
• Mormon, with 4 million adherents in 12,000 congregations;
• Muslim, with 1.6 million adherents in over 1,000 congregations (this data is based on different estimating procedures; see appendix of the book);
• Eastern Christians (including Orthodox), with nearly 1 million adherents in 2,000 congregations;
• Eastern religions, reporting about 150,000 adherents in 4,000 congregations. (Many Eastern religions do not have a concept of formal membership in local congregations, so the adherent figure is not completely comparable to the other religious families.)
• Unitarian Universalist Assocation, with about 180,000 adherents in 1,000 congregations.

[Link: www.glenmary.org...]

[Link: ext.nazarene.org...]

Honestly, I don't see what's your problem with the British Muslims.

80% of them thought the invasion of Iraq was wrong - so what? 90% of the Spaniards thought so too.

13% of British Muslims thought the attack of Al Qaida on the US was justified and 15% don't know. About 73% thought it wasn't justified - that's a lot more than you'll find among Lefties, particularly Euro Lefties.

Only 10% thought Bush and Blair were right to go to war - same percentage as Spaniards.

47% (less than half) of the Muslims agreed that living as a Palestinian could drive them to become suicide bombers - I bet the percentage among Euro Lefties would be considerably higher.

All in all, British Muslims seem to be more pro-American than the European Left and better allyes than Spain.

[Link: www.arabicnews.com...]

The report, called "The Mosque in America: A National Portrait," is the result of in-depth interviews with a randomized sample of representatives drawn from more than 1200 American mosques. This figure is not the total number of American mosques. Smaller or new mosques may have been missed.

but they always lie, exaggerate

#40 Paul,

To what are you referring?

"By this summer a lot of stuff will hopefully come together involving at least Syria, Lebanon and Iran. And even if we can't get our troops out of Europe fast enough, no matter. Spain and Britain can sit this next phase out. We might not even need Israel.

We may have lost Spain in the short term, but the jihadis will likely lose a big piece of their caliphate here pretty soon."

#57 theDevil!

Mr. Rumsfeld was almost pleading in his behavior towards these obvious tools of the left.

I saw that too. I'm not half the gentleman that Rumsfeld is; I'm quite sure that I would have reached across the desk and strangled them on live TV.

It's naive, pathetic, and deadly, these days.

Deadly indeed.

G'night all.

Mosque in America

One in ten is a high number if you consider the fact that they are openly advocating mass murder against civilians. I would guess that one in five wouldn't admit that. I suspect that at least half of the Muslim population on earth is pro al-Qaeda. That makes both alliance with muslim governments and nation-building in Islamofascist states, pure folly.

and it makes it a total folly to admit one more Muslim into the West. Time to turn the tide. They have had their chance to disown their fundamentalists, and they have blown it.

If the Real IRA set up stalls on British streets, saying the bomb at Omagh was a good thing, somehow, I doubt the British government would tolerate that.

So why is Al-Muhajiroun, which openly supports Al Qaeda, and has sent young British Muslims on a mission of murder to Tel aviv, why is this group allowed to continue to exist?

#32 - location, location, location.

Don't forget, Atta met w/people there, they've got a big infestation.

Also, reading Iberian Notes, seems quite a few spanish intel guys were killed a few months ago. They were tracking AQ into the country.

---

Keep in mind, folks, about Spain, Aznar should have said, we don't know who did it, but we'll find out. He handled it very, very badly.

Seems there were some domestic items like a new education requirement or something.

#66 IMC

Because UK politicians, just like US politicians, are refusing to hammer the out-of-line Muslims in our midst. Still suggesting that Islam is primarily an RoP. Still supping with the devil.

x

I'm late here, so sorry if this has been asked:

I wonder what the ratio of American muslims would be who'd agree that mass murder should be perpetrated against the west?

Maybe a British person can answer a question for me :

It seems there are several Islamic so-called 'religious leaders' spewing their hate and bile in public in the UK.

Why have none of them been prosecuted under the Racial Vilification Act (or the British version thereof). Isnt it illegal to incite violence by stirring up hatred against those of another religion or race?

Isnt it illegal to openly recruit for terrorist organisations? Or to fund them?

Why havent any of these Islamic bigots been called to account?

It is not only British muslims who long to see civilization dead, but American muslims as well. I have been conversing with a young islamic blogger (who views himself as a "moderate") who responded to my questions this way:

[QUOTE]“did you take joy in the deaths of the thousands of innocent people in NY on September 11th, 2001?”[UNQUOTE]

Firstly, get rid of this word "innocent" because your definition of "innocent" and my definition seems to be different.

Secondly: Initially, no, I didn't take joy in the 9/11 attack at NY because, at first, I thought that it was clearly unislaamic and haraam. Later on, though, I found out that some Islaamic scholars actually consider it to be permissable based on some strong Islaamic arguments and evidences. So now, yes, I do consider those attacks to be Islaamically permissable.

"Firstly, get rid of this word "innocent" because your definition of "innocent" and my definition seems to be different."

nasueating stuff. Clearly this "moderate" sees all of us infidels as fair game.

The truth is this new enemy is the new nazism. Its similar to nazism on so many levels. Most importantly, it can't be reasoned with, it must be destroyed.

#34 gymnast

I'll hopefully be leaving the UK for good in about 18 months to 2 years... before this country is in total dhimmitude!

;-)

#66 Israel Midnight Cafe

As you live in London, take a walk down the Edgware Road from Marble Arch sometime.

You think you're in an Islamic state, not the heart of Central London.

The Burkas, Hijabs, men in nightdresses, with long beards and Muslim skullcaps...

You'll be lucky to see any of the indigenous species there.

Amazingly I get the distinct impression that they will not assimilate to our way of life, but want us to assimilate to their way of life...

Sadly, this government in the UK have been kissing the oil sheikhs backsides for so long, they can't see the light of day...

#75, Nannette. I remember taking that exact walk about 20 years ago and thinking at the time that Riyadh had moved to London for the summer. Seems they stayed.

As Mike Tyson once said 'EVERYONE has a plan UNTIL they get hit!

The Brits will come around once they start getting repeatedly hit with mini 9/11's.

Look at Israel. They've taken over 200+ terrorist bombings. Nobody (cept the jews) bat an eye. it's the 'hey, as long as it's not me or my country taking the hit, it's tolerable'. But to Israel it's not, and the IDF is fighting back. they understand the reality. they always have, cos they have always taken hits. they are under no illusions.

Europe has traditionally slow the last 100 years in countering threats. they always wait until it's too late. so why would we ever expect them to pre-empt? We've protected them for over 50 years now. an entire generation has grown up never knowing the soviet threat that their parents did. So how the hell could they know real danger? they are like a pampered kid. You think i'm kidding? Look at how they 'handled' Kosovo, in their own backyard. they cowered like scared dogs in the corner.

Now, if you are a low down, scummy arab or muslim, this is paradise on earth! this is where you want to be. you could manipulate europe in a new york minute!

but here's the thing Mohammed Muslim and Akmed A-rab dont get: Eventually, even the peaceniks will turn on them as THEIR relatives are killed in bombings. That peace crap liberals spew dissapears real fast when their own innocents are hit and hit hard.

Unfortunatly, our complacency has demanded such a brutal response before we actually wake up. But the rest of the world will wake up, just as Israel and America has.

But, it will take more mini 9/11's to make this change. Sadly.

a little OT...

Shipping to be next target.

But Australian Strategic Policy Institute program director Aldo Borgu said Australia was not an easy target because it did not have the large Islamic population terrorist groups relied upon for support.

Oh my goodness. I can't believe I read that in the Sydney Morning Herald.

<sarcasm>
That's so ISLAMOPHOBIC!
</sarcasm>

But the Islamic population breeds fast, it won't always be like that. Maybe soon I'll have to move to NZ or Japan.

Who fuc*in' cares???

#20 Quark2

Quark, I ain't opposed to no alligator hunt, but I would respectfully point out that dawg is a favorite gator snack, and if I wuz you I wouldn't go takin' my dawgs on a gator hunt (but you might take my neighbor's annoying beagles, though. Good use for 'em.)

#76 Gymnast

LOL - if you thought it was bad 20 years ago, you should see it now... it's more like being in Saudi Arabia... even the shoukh in the Old City of Jerusalem before the Intifada looked more up to date!

:o)

#81 Nannette

That must be real depressing, Nannette, to see your own country turning into an Islamic stronghold right before your eyes like that.

Moral equivalency is fun!

For instance, can we rig these polls the same way AQ rigged the Spanish election?

Too many wrong answers this time: Abu "Captain Hook" Hamza loses the other hand.

More wrong answers: Tomahawk on the Finsbury Street mosque (RN of course, we wouldn't want to violate British sovereignty).

Gotta know the language, and we're learning fast.

I've said it before, and I will say it again:

the true enemy is not terrorism, but ISLAM. And ultimately terrorism isn't even the most dangerous weapon the enemy is using... infiltrating from within and breeding like the vermin they are is their true lethal weapon that may very well end up eating the west hollow from within if the west doesn't realize what is happening and take drastic measures to prevent it.

I can only hope that what will almost certainly happen to Europe will wake up America while there is still a chance.

It is a pretty obvious to see there is a problem here. Many would probably tell you that the solution is education or many different solutions that amount to throwing money at the problem.

While I am opposed to the puritanical christian stance that the USA takes on issues such as abortion, sex, drugs, and prostitution, one thing is for sure... I still believe I have the right to object peacefully.

Leading up to my point, which is this. I found not a shred of evidence that terrorists have been anything other than of muslim origin. And I will take it a step further by not being so egotistical about the west. In Indonesia muslim terrorism has long been a justifiable solution to solving problems.

So how do we cope with this? In a society that cannot brand ALL people as being a certian way of thinking(even my father has a workmate who is muslim and quite acclimated to living in American society, and hates syria for rejecting him because he turned in is citizenship). We cannot demonize Muslims for the actions of a few, can we?

Or can we? Certianly the average German soldier thought no more than the idea of serving thier country faithfully. They were probably pretty nice people too. But we still shot at them while trying to target the REAL culprits. It begs the question, by not reacting up front do we force a greater backlash on the back end toward Muslim racism.

The situation here in Europe is a dire one, with many countries held hostage by the fear that doing anything branded anti muslim will be returned with a bomb in your local train or government building of choice. I don't understand what they are afraid of, but they still want to hold onto the idea here that terrorism can be avoided and compromised with. This is sadly why you see the demonizing of the USA falling right in line with the "great satan" adage.

In summary the solution I believe lies in precision attacks on key figures based on intelligence. Isreals model has been quite successful so far with the only downside being that they have to stand down on Yassar Arafat because of the real "Great Satan" EU and the UN. The new mouthpieces for all quaeda. They are not doing it on purpose, they are being held hostage by trying to avoid obvious conflict.

It is not helping Muslims and christians and jews to get along, by allowing terrorism to go on. I believe it is in the best interests of rational people to strike hard and fast at theses mafioso criminals before they change from common thugs to political idealists with a mission.

Comments welcome

From Barbara Ameil in the DT

As distorted, evil, and inhuman as Hitler and Stalin were, even their followers had the occasional flash of light. SS Captain Wilm Hosenfeld knew two verities: music and his Church. Both led him to help the terrified Jewish pianist Wladyslaw Szpilman survive in the ruins of Warsaw. In fact, certain moral notions such as loyalty, conscience, support of the downtrodden or the innocence of the young, were never entirely dead even in that part of Satan's empire. The Soviets tried not to harm children or old women. The Nazis rarely raped, at least in the West

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

At bloody last, someone is getting it. Islam and its followers pose a far greater threat then Stalin and Hitler combined.

15 JohninLondon, 13 Nannette

This Labour government has betrayed the first principles and duty of any government. It has allowed in hundreds of thousands of Muslims into the country as asylum seekers. Even if 10% of these are active Islamists, it has made the task of the securuty services well nigh impossible, as a consequence.

On the law and order, this government is in even greater breach of its duty.

16 Seymoure paine

Expelling Muslims from the West, is I'm afraid, the only choice. It is a difficult option to take, as it would in some ways compromise the basis of our civilisation. OTH, the present situation is leading to an even greater destruction of the basis of our civilisation. As I have pointed out, feeedom of sppeech, the quintisential value of the West, has already been compromised, since the days of Rusdie affair. At present, only Islamists have true freedom of speech in the West, as they shout out their murderous hatred of the West. Any public figure who points this out, is liable to prosecution or even a death fatwa sentence.

Denial is thus, not just a river in Egypt. It flows in the West as well, and with greater force. It is the belief that the Western model is able to assimilate all cultures and a failure to recognise that certain cultures will never assimilate. If we fail to recognise this, then we are looking at a 1000 year internal civil war with Islam, with the creation of Islamic states all over the West, including the US and Canada. We are thus stuck, and have no option but to take a course that leads to the least damage to Western civilisation as possible.

That is why I have opted for exchange of populations option. Our Muslims over here, for the terribly persecuted Christians in Islamic nations. Exchange of populations is not considered ethnic cleansing and is recognised in International law, when groups of people are unable to live in harmony.

84 jan

It is already too late for the US as well. In fact, I see greater danger for the US then Europe, for a couple of reasons.

1. The US is a nation of immigrants, thus no immigrant has any native claim to the US.

2. Because of the special nature of the founding of the US, it becomes virtually impossible for the US to define Islam, as anything other then a religion, when in fact Islam is a political ideology for the subjugation of mankind.

Europe though, is an old and settled land. When push really comes to shove, Europeans can claim native rights, which effectively trump immigrant Islamic demands. For instance the Danes are not just a group of people who swear allegiance to the Danish flag, but are defined by race, language, culture and an attachment to the land, going back thousands of years.
This just is not the case in the US.

78 justice

But the Islamic population breeds fast, it won't always be like that. Maybe soon I'll have to move to NZ or Japan.

Too late. Both Japan and NZ have a rapidly expanding Islamic population. Under Helen Clarke, NZ has been taking in Muslims as fast as they can ,even those rejected by Australia.

Japan should be OK though, for reasons outlined in #87.

85 pantat

Isreals model has been quite successful so far with the only downside being that they have to stand down on Yassar Arafat because of the real "Great Satan" EU and the UN.

The one powers that stands between Arafat and the IDF are not the EU and the UN. The Isrealis do not give a fig what the EU and the UN think. It is the US which has the IDF chained to the block and prevents it from exacting justice.

thank you for the correction DP, I will take note of it. I have been reading in the news that it is the constant objections of the UN that pressures the USA to take its stance for the sake of world relations.

Ultimately the choice does lie within the USA.

On another note please witness these "Eye popping out of the SKull" reactions from the world on the BBC

news.bbc.co.uk...]>

One man actually hopes that the terrorists SEE THE BOMBING AS A VICTORY FOR TERRORISTS?!!! Will the insanity never end?

Has Spain caved in the face of terror?

Is Europe a continent of appeasers by nature?

DP, #89, and previous. You are just a fountain of optimism and about as much fun as a picnic on an anthill. In fact looking at your posts, one could surmise that you rather enjoy the idea of picnicing on an anthill.

90 pantat

I have been reading in the news that it is the constant objections of the UN that pressures the USA to take its stance for the sake of world relations

That is certainly possible. The US as the only superpower, with interests around the world, has to take UN views into consideration. Yet, we are in a war of survival, with Israel in the frontline. I just wonder, for how long the US will restrain Israel.

92 gymanast

After Madrid and its effects, I'm becoming increasingly pessimistic about the outcome of this war. We are losing the cultural war and now even the Iraq campaign is slipping. Picnicking with ants, is definitely a preferable alternative, dont you think?

Alas, I have to agree that some in the UK will only see the light if/when the country is attacked (again) by Islamo-kazis. I think the vast majority of British citizens realise the threat they face, alas many of those who don't are sitting on the benches in Parliament. Yes there is a vocal minority against the War in Iraq/WOT/Israel/pro-Islamo-kazi but that is not the majority. It is a great pity the on-side majority will probably be the ones killed when Al Queda hits the UK.

Several British bloggers are attempting to guess how, in fact, the British populace as a whole will react to such an attack.

Italy is next! Rome, Italy. The Catholic Church and Berlusconi all in at once. Italy, Italy, Italy.

90 pantat

"Eye popping out of the SKull" reactions from the world on the BBC

Any links?

Is Europe a continent of appeasers by nature?

I would say that to a large extent yes. What is worse, whenever they do get rid of their cowardice, they turn into following the likes of Napoleon, Bismarck and Hitler.

They like to say America hasn't got a long history like they do... but America has the longest surviving democracy in the world. Uropean democracies in comparison seem to regularly either collapse into authoritarian police states, or surrender to the neighboring police states.

Jan

There is much in what you write. Europe is currently in the extreme 'pacifist' and appeasement mode. But as in most extreme modes, it is likely to swing violently to the opposite extreme.

This is an extreme danger, particularly in France. Political leaders, Tony Blair being the exception, have not provided any leadership that will guide the populace. This makes the populace vulnerable to the likes of Le Pen. Ditto elsewhere. Only little Denmark is fighting this war as it should be fought.

Tony Blair in the meantime, is beginning to sound like a a latter day Cassandra.

92 gymnast

You are right. I'm really feeling pessimistic today.

DP, I think you underestimate us here in the US. We haven't been individually disarmed yet, you know. I'm not a wild-eyed lunatic, but am perfectly willing and capable of defending my home and my kids from this threat. And don't be fooled by our leaders' "Nation of Immigrants" dribbling. We will wake up to accept that some immigrants are more worthy than others...it might take 20 more years, but I think we will wake up before it is too late. As previous posters have noted, the tragic thing is that our wanting to stick the collective head in the sand about the ROP will cost many more casualties on our side than necessary. And Spain's knuckling under has just dramatically raised the odds of a major attack here in the US before the election. I still have faith that such an attack may get the islamofascists exactly what they DON'T want in this country. Please Lord, don't let me be wrong.

Just remember Enoch Powell's "rivers of blood" speech.

99 amyc

Thanks for lifting my spirits today.
I hope you are right about the 'nation of immigrants' bit. What concerns me though, is that the US is a nation governed by constitutional laws, like no other Western nation. This limits the response the US can take as a society.

And though it may be re-assuring that Americans are armed and willing to exercise the right of self defence, small arms in the hands of the citizenry is not a deterrent to massive and 'conventional' suicide bomb attacks, leave alone a dirty nuke.

Mmmm, #101 DP, I think the point #99amyc was making was that there will be no suicide bombings if there are no middle eastern folks left to make them.

Well, swamp woman, um, :-)

But DP, my point was that most of us here don't suffer under the pathological super-urbanity (or neutered mind-set) of the European. You wouldn't know it from watching our news or reading our "mainstream" papers, but we still have some backbone...it's under attack by some pretty slick customers, and way too many have fallen under the spell, but I still believe the vast majority of Americans (and possibly even a larger percentage of Aussies) will fight these bastards. No matter what the ACLU screeches. I just think it will take another major attack on our soil, or maybe 10 more major attacks, tragically, to get people off their asses.

I should have added that the majority of Americans still are proud of cowboys. Orianna Falacci (spell?) in an interview talked about how she was getting a lot of criticism for her book The Rage and the Pride, and compared herself to those who tried to warn the world about Mussolini in the early/mid 1930's. We will win, but I can't help but mourn already the innocents who will have to be slaughtered to shock us into action. That's why Spain's actions are so depressing.

The Muslim community in Britain are increasingly trying to influence British opinion and foreign policy - witness their heavy concentration in anti-war protests, their vocal contributions to any TV or radio debate, the "usual suspects" who are forever being interviewed on TV and radio or on panel programmes. Always the same line - Muslims worldwide are the victims, the US and UK are behaving terribly, why aren't we letting more Muslims in. And in quite a few constituences they are packing the selection caucuses for new MPs or trying to eject sitting MPs.

Their tone is always peremptory - we indigenous folk have to do as they say, adjust to them, allow free rein to all their practices, give endless leeway and legal support for all their illegal immigrants, alter our education system in their favour - and accept that the guys caught up in Guantanamo Bay are poor innocent lads who somehow got lost in Afghanistan.

The Brits continue to put up with a lot of this crap - there is plenty of public indignation about the total breakdown of normal immigration controls but no public action.

But if there is any serious violence by Islamic terrorists in Britain, I doubt if all the Brit public will be restrained. After 9/11 there was total initial confusion in the US and therefore little instant backlash. In Madrid there has been confusion about whether ETA might have been responsible. But if there was a major incident in London, people would instantly assume it was the Muslim fanatics, and there could be serious religious/racial strife. There are quite a few nasty outfits in the UK that would help foment such disturbances. One could envisage a riot down the Edgware Road, for example, or some other visible flashpoint of feeling. Or riots in one or more northern towns.

The same could apply to France or to Germany. In all these countries, there will be hotheads who are already planning their response to any further atrocity by Musliim fundamentalists.

So far Denmark seems to be the only country in Europe where the politicians are taking the risks of civil strife sufficiently seriously - by banning the entry of any more fundamentalist imams, by ejecting a lot of illegals, and by raising the barrier high for future entry. nd making no bones about the fact that these measures are focussed on the Muslim community because of its failure to assimilate properly.

#82 SwampWoman

It's heartbreaking to see how the country's degenerated... we have a rich history and culture, but have had to shake these off in order to "adapt" to the immigrants... instead of requiring them to adapt to our way of life.

#86 DP

This Labour government has betrayed the first principles and duty of any government. It has allowed in hundreds of thousands of Muslims into the country as asylum seekers. Even if 10% of these are active Islamists, it has made the task of the securuty services well nigh impossible, as a consequence.

Our government, as the other western countries had never seen Islamism as a threat until 9/11 and it's only then that the security services have tried infiltrating terror groups, with little success I may add.

We've had the sleeper cells who came here in the early 70's and are now established, as are their families. The Tipton Taliban were released after 2 days interrogation because of the human rights activists, lawyers and media...

The UK is dhimmi in all but the name now. Although back in 2001 on the old Evening Standard messageboards some of us were saying that by 2010 we'd be Britainistan... and that predictions is not too far off the mark.

#105 JohninLondon

I love reading your posts! Spot on as usual!

103 amyc

Apologies for the delay. I just had to off to the pub for a couple of refreshers.

You make the point that Americans will fight back. Fight back after what? Afetr a nule going of? The other matter is that the authorities are subject to constitutional law. If there is slightes hint that citizens are taking up arms to attack another visible minority, the National Guard and other forces of authority will be called in to protect the minority. Patriotic Americans will then be left with the option to fight their own forces. Unlikely.

101 swamp woman

there will be no suicide bombings if there are no middle eastern folks left to make them.

That is only possible if we can do an Ellon plan right across the West.

105 JohninLondon

So far Denmark seems to be the only country in Europe where the politicians are taking the risks of civil strife sufficiently seriously - by banning the entry of any more fundamentalist imams, by ejecting a lot of illegals, and by raising the barrier high for future entry

This is what I have been saying for the last year. It is little Denmark, that has been showing the way how to really hurt this ideology, where it hurts most. Holland is the other nation that is beginning to emulate Denmark.

JohninLondon (#105)

The Muslim community in Britain are increasingly trying to influence British opinion and foreign policy - witness their heavy concentration in anti-war protests, their vocal contributions to any TV or radio debate, the "usual suspects" who are forever being interviewed on TV and radio or on panel programmes.

It's not much different in the US. CAIR immediately comes to mind.