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Radical Muslims Still Have Access to US Gov't

Fri, Mar 19, 2004 at 2:48:08 pm PST

Today in Washington the United States Institute of Peace is hosting an event on reforming Islam—and one of the guests in the panel discussion is Muzammil Siddiqi, former president of the ISNA who is on record threatening the US and supporting terrorist groups: Pipes Objects to Fox in the Henhouse. Daniel Pipes has announced he is “distancing” himself from the event.

Among the guests in this afternoon’s panel discussion is Muzammil Siddiqi, who until November 2001 was president of the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), a leading Wahhabi front organization in the United States. Wahhabism is a radical form of Islam practiced in Saudi Arabia and advocated by al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden and his terrorist leaders.

Siddiqi has accompanied visiting Saudi officials from the Muslim World League on fund-raising tours across America, and is listed on its Website as the organization’s official representative in the United States. Offices of the Muslim World League in Herndon, Va., were raided by a federal antiterrorism task force in March 2002 because of suspected ties to al-Qaeda.

During an anti-Israel rally outside the White House on Oct. 28, 2000, Siddiqi openly threatened the United States with violence if it continued its support of Israel. “America has to learn ... if you remain on the side of injustice, the wrath of God will come. Please, all Americans. Do you remember that? ... If you continue doing injustice, and tolerate injustice, the wrath of God will come.” By “injustice,” he meant U.S. support for Israel.

Siddiqi also has called for a wider application of sharia law in the United States, and in a 1995 speech praised suicide bombers. “Those who die on the part of justice are alive, and their place is with the Lord, and they receive the highest position, because this is the highest honor,” he was quoted as saying by the Kansas City Star on Jan. 28, 1995.

A Bush appointee to the U.S. Institute of Peace (USIP) says he must distance himself from today’s event because it associates the USIP with groups “on the wrong side in the war on terrorism.” USIP board member Daniel Pipes tells Insight that, in addition to his objection to Siddiqi, he has warned the USIP about the presence of the U.S. spokesman of al-Muhajiroun, a London-based group that claims to be recruiting jihadis for a worldwide “Mohammed’s army” faithful to bin Laden.

Pipes tells Insight: “I believe that President [George W.] Bush appointed me to the USIP board in part to serve as a watchdog against militant Islamic groups. Unfortunately the management of USIP is not listening to my advice. I cannot be associated with the event today which associates USIP with some of the very worst militant Islamic groups.”

And the Siddiqi connection is not even the worst of it; the co-sponsor of the event is the Center for the Study of Islam and Democracy, one of whose members is the former North American spokesman for al-Muhajiroun.

The March 19 event is cohosted by USIP and the Center for the Study of Islam and Democracy (CSID), a U.S.-based group that was created by board members and former staff of the American Muslim Council (AMC), a radical pro-Saudi group that largely ceased operations after its former chairman, Abdulrahman Alamoudi, was jailed last October on terrorist-related charges.

Pipes raised his concerns with USIP Chairman Chester Crocker and President Richard Solomon over the “extremist nature of CSID itself” starting last November. In addition to board members and an executive director who shifted over to the new group from AMC, Pipes pointed out that CSID fellow Kamran Bokhari has ties to al-Muhajiroun, an al-Qaeda support group. Until last year, Bokhari was the self-acknowledged North American spokesman for al-Muhajiroun.

Insight reported on the group’s first anniversary “celebration” of the 9/11 attacks, held at the radical Finsbury mosque in London, where al-Muhajiroun showed off a poster that portrayed a burning World Trade Center under attack and called September 11 “a towering day in history.”

At the group’s second anniversary 9/11 “celebration,” its members distributed a poster with photographs of all 19 hijackers, calling them “the magnificent 19.”

CSID “fellows” are not research assistants, but integral members of the leadership of the organization. According to a copy of the CSID bylaws Insight has obtained, CSID fellows are responsible for electing the group’s board of directors. All board members must first be fellows.

Bokhari has issued a statement denouncing political violence and al-Qaeda, and referred to himself as a “former Islamist activist.” But given his leadership role with al-Muhajiroun, Pipes says, such statements were “deeply insufficient to rehabilitate him ... or make him someone suitable to be associated with USIP.”

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1 Thom  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 12:50:54pm

Unbelievable ...

The March 19 event is cohosted by USIP and the Center for the Study of Islam and Democracy (CSID), a U.S.-based group that was created by board members and former staff of the American Muslim Council (AMC)

Is anybody learning anything??

2 JohninLondon  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 12:53:48pm

But is the White House listening to Pipes ???

Sounds like the Director of USIP Chester Crocker is a fellow-traveller ?

3 Veil All Camels Now  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 12:53:49pm

This continuous dancing with the devil is getting very tiring. These guys have all the subtlety of a sledgehammer, yet the US government appears to be oblivious to their goals and intentions.

4 SoCalJustice  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 12:55:48pm
Center for the Study of Islam and Democracy

I saw one of their pamphlets.

Apparently Islam is infallible, but Democracy (along with human rights and civil rights) is a tool of the Zionists.

But they study both concepts there.

5 scaramouche  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 1:02:56pm

Daniel Pipes keeps insisting that the cure for radical Islam is moderate Islam. Yet, apart from Irshad Manji, who, articulate and inspiring thought she is, is clearly on the fringe of her religion, there does not seem to be much evidence that moderate Islam actually exists. What we get instead are faux moderates like CAIR and others who feign moderation to us, but show their truer, more radical colours to their own people. If we don't hold groups and individuals accountable for everything they say, we are going to be in serious trouble. I mean, more serious trouble than we're already in.

6 realwest  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 1:04:46pm

This is just too much. I firmly believe in freedom of speech even, maybe especially, for people who disagree with me. I'm not at all concerned by what these Islamofascits might SAY at USIP (a truly irrelvent organization anyway) but now they'll add their participation in it to their CV's and use it to raise more money to kill more innocent people.
Absolutley shameful and disgusting.
Anybody know what kind of response Pipes got from Crocker (talk about an apt name!)? Any word from Bush?
I think I'm gonna have to puke. or drink. or both.

7 David2  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 1:06:57pm

On the anniversary of the War Against Terrorists In Iraq the luckiest SOB in the world is the President of Taiwan. In second place, by only a few votes, we have the Vice President of Taiwan.
A toast to both of them. The F'ing Chinese Commie Bastards who orchestrated this need to double up on their Viagra fixes tonight.

8 quark2  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 1:07:38pm

Siddiqui wants to see more shar'ia law in the US?
I've got a law of the west for yer, siddiqui bub...it's called tar n featherin' and then run out of town/country on a rail.

Boy this just pisses me off.

9 milford  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 1:16:29pm

Once again, time to make our voices heard....contact the USIP and the White House. Let them know what we know....we have to start making more noise people.

10 realwest  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 1:17:21pm

Decided I've done enough puking early this week with a stomach bug, so I've opted to drink, er, have a drink. or two. I mean the sun's half past the yardarm or whatever.
This USIP thing is genuinely disgusting.

11 the new kid  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 1:21:13pm

OT

Some of the news in Israel:

Israeli man shot dead in Jerusalem - Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades claimed responsibility for the shooting.
(Al Aqsa "Martyrs" Brigades - a faction of Fatah)


Fatah and its splinter groups have now become the dominant terror force on the West Bank, nudging out Hamas.

Information about recently thwarted terror attacks, which the Shin Bet security service released for publication yesterday, provides interesting clues about the extent to which the Fatah organization has been involved in terror. A Fatah-related Tanzim group from Nablus was responsible for 14 out of 15 attempted terror attacks that have been foiled since the start of the year. And the two large-scale terror attacks perpetrated this year in Jerusalem were the work of a different Tanzim cell based in Bethlehem, which was also planning the hijacking of an Israeli bus.

About 80 percent of the 40 intelligence warnings currently under review by the Shin Bet relate to Tanzim groups. Ten percent are connected to Hamas and the remaining 10 percent to Islamic Jihad and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine.

The practical significance of such data is that Fatah and its splinter groups have now become the dominant terror force on the West Bank, nudging out Hamas.

Though it still sends suicide bombers on strikes against Israeli targets, Hamas today is mainly involved in a rebuilding process, trying to overcome the blows it suffered during the Israel Defense Forces' Defensive Shield operation and subsequent actions.

Meanwhile, helped by money that flows to it from Lebanon and Iran, the Tanzim groups are strengthening. Most Palestinian explosive experts on the West Bank today belong to the Tanzim.


Tanzim planned to hijack bus, hold hostages in Bethlehem - more detalis

The Shin Bet also reported it had uncovered a Bethlehem-based group comprising Tanzim activists and Palestinian security forces members who were responsible for the last two suicide attacks in Jerusalem that left 19 people dead. According to the Shin Bet, the group was planning to commandeer at least one Israeli bus, take its passengers hostage, and hold them in the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem.

It appears that initial contacts between the leading activists in the group were woven by Ahmed Mugrabi, one of the heads of Tanzim's military wing in Bethlehem, who has been in Israeli custody since the summer of 2002.

.
.

A senior security source noted yesterday the high-profile involvement of members of the Palestinian Authority security forces, saying that many of them played a central role in terror attacks. The source said, however, that the directives did not come from the PA itself.

The source added that the PA had made no real effort to prevent terrorists from entering Israel from the Bethlehem area. The source defined security coordination between Israel and the PA in Bethlehem as "weak and ineffective."

.
.
Because the attack's planners feared that the strike would not go ahead as planned, they made contact with wanted Tanzim members holed up at PA Chairman Yasser Arafat's Muqata in Ramallah. The Tanzim members organized assistance for the bomber so he could reach his target in Jerusalem.

.
.
The Shin Bet also reported the thwarting of a large-scale terror attack in Tel Aviv on Purim. Several Palestinians who planned to carry out the attack were arrested in the center of Tel Aviv on March 2 following an alert that terrorists had infiltrated the area.

12 scaramouche  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 1:24:53pm

#11 the new kid

Fatah is Yasser's baby. It's new dominance proves that efforts to isolate him and diminish his influence have so far proven ineffectual, to say the least

13 William  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 1:26:10pm

OT:

Holy cow.

The Bush campaign has updated its new ad that highlights Kerry's vote against the $87 billion for the troops.

The end of the ad now includes a video clip of Kerry's recent statement: "I actually voted for the $87 billion, before I voted against it".

One word: devastating.

I don't think it's on the wsebsite, but I just saw it during Special Report.

By the way Special Report just reported that Malaysian moonbat Matahir endorsed Kerry (including a video clip of Matahir's comments that 'Jews rule the world'). My guess is no other network has reported this information.

(Note: tonight at 10PM Eastern will be a one hour interview with Rumsfeld, covering the one year anniversary of Iraq, Sept 11th, etc.
 

14 energyforcapital  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 1:27:54pm

#5 scaramouche

What we get instead are faux moderates like CAIR...


...whose intentions we can visibly see, anyway (albeit through the two-faced b.s. you watch on CNN, etc.).

The revelation of the Tides 'Foundation' and their brand of subterfuge in the war on terror is a mere scrape of things to come.

Dan Pipes has one major set 'o hangers to confriont these people armed with nothing but a mirror.

efc


BTW- scaramouche, didn't Kerry name a boat after you?

15 energyforcapital  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 1:29:31pm

correction: confront

thank you


efc

16 Elle Plater  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 1:32:21pm

OT: The Australian Prime Minister John Howard has just requested that the Governor General return from holidays in Tasmania. The most likely reason for this is that he is about to call an election.

17 Spiro Agnew  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 1:33:59pm
there does not seem to be much evidence that moderate Islam actually exists.

True enough. Is there a single Muslim who feels that Israel's right to exist is equal to Pakistan's? Are there any who will give an unqualified condemnation of their brethrens' violent attacks on civilization?

Recipe for finding "moderates":

A) Do a Google search on Islam

B) Type "Jew" or "Jewish" into the search field of any link

C) Can't find any "moderates"? Waddaya know!

18 David2  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 1:36:10pm

William

I just saw that ad. Devastating is the word. Kerry just got laid out with a right to the head.

He's going to need a massage after seeing this one. No amount of cold snow is going to take away the sting.

19 Thom  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 1:37:46pm

#16 Elle Plater

So what does that mean?

20 plutarch  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 1:39:12pm

Al-Muhajiroun????

Just go ahead and have the KKK...Crocker is IGNORANT, and INCOMPETENT

21 Abu Jimbola  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 1:47:30pm

Hold the conference. Arrest all of them. Throw away the key

22 Elle Plater  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 1:48:43pm

#19 Thom

So what does that mean?

It means there could be an election here as early as May. He has to tell the GG before he announces it.

23 Thom  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 1:54:27pm

#22 Elle Plater

I mean, is his government in trouble? Why is he calling for elections?

24 scaramouche  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 1:55:30pm

#14 energyforcapital

BTW- scaramouche, didn't Kerry name a boat after you?

He did, and I'm so very flattered. I have a sailboat, too, and I think I'll rename mine something more appropriate. How do you say "flip-flop" in French?

25 Elle Plater  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 1:58:14pm

In Australia there are not set dates when an election has to be held. The PM needs to call an election sometime this year but can decide exactly when. When and election is called it usually takes about 6 weeks till the actual election. If the PM feels that if he waits any longer he will be more likeley to lose, he may want to call an electin asap.

26 Lysander  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 2:01:01pm

#25 Elle Plater

And may Mr Howard win reelection, and keep his present job. Though, I always felt it odd when I was in Oz to support the Liberals :-)

Lysander

27 Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 2:01:34pm

I'm all for giving radical Muslims access to US Government institutions.

Leavenworth would be a good one to start with.

28 Jaffar abu Grand Vizier  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 2:02:32pm

#24 scaramouche

"bascule" or so says Google....

29 Abu Akmu  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 2:04:32pm

William,

What network is that Rumsfield thing gonna be on?

30 Poitiers-Lepanto  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 2:12:43pm

muslim moderate, uses only 38 spl
muslim radical uses 44 M

31 scaramouche  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 2:13:18pm

#28 Jaffar abu Grand Vizier

La Bascule--I kinda like it.

32 Promethea  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 2:26:53pm

#24 scaramouche . . .

"How do you say "flip-flop" in French?"

Fleep-flope


/Just kidding

33 Trumanite  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 2:28:13pm

The buck stops with Bush, and he has no excuse. Siddiqi's history has been reported numerous times. The fact that this freak was part of the National Cathedral memorial just after 9/11 is enough to cause projectile vomit. But, unbelieveably, Siddiqi was then invited for subsequent "prayer" breakfasts at the White House.

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

Bush, who has been far too cute in his approach to the Islamist war on civilization, wants to fight a war on "terror", but wants to still jack off gibbering Musim hatemongers like Siddiqi who openly incite fellow Islamofreaks and continues to regurgitate the moronic "Islam is Peace" line.

It is very hard to criticize ordinary citizens for not understanding the Islamist threat with this kind of crapola raining from above.

34 cba  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 2:53:20pm

Re: moderate Muslims

I discovered one this week, on the local CBC phone-in show: Salim Mansur, Professor of Poli Sci at the University of Western Ontario and a biweekly columnist in the Toronto Sun. He was unswavering in his condemnation of Islamist terrorists, whom he referred to as "fascists," and came across throughout the show as a consumate anti-idiotarian.

I emailed him after the show to thank him, and mentioned that I'd heard Irshad Manji speak a couple of weeks earlier. He replied:

Thanks for your very kind letter. It is much appreciated, especially the times we are living in. I am glad you went to hear Irshad Manji. Irshad is a very brave young woman, and a friend. May God bless you, and give you and your family peace and joy. Regards,
Salim Mansur

He's someone to watch. In case you're interested, here's one of his articles. Some excerpts:

Jews, as a people, despite the terrible injustices inflicted on them which finally culminated in the Holocaust, survived and succeeded. Arabs, as a people, despite the resources gifted them by nature and the support received from others in modern times, on the whole displayed an incapacity to assimilate into the modern world...

Anti-Semitic bile became a crutch to explain Arab failure as a vast machination of Jewish conspiracy, abetted by the West, constant in its purpose to divide and control the Arab world since the time of the Crusades...

The situation in which the Arab-Muslim world now finds itself can only be reversed with external assistance.

Here it is worth reminding ourselves that fascism and anti-Semitism in Europe, which precipitated a world war and Holocaust, were only purged by greater force intervening from the outside.

35 cba  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 2:57:25pm

One more quote from a Mansur article:

In fighting Muslim fascism, to which America is now committed, an understanding of this phenomenon and an appreciation of Islam and Muslim history are essential weapons for success. Daniel Pipes, possessing both, is a strategic ally and friend of Muslims in America.
36 Rayra[deleted]  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 3:05:23pm
37 epg  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 3:18:57pm

Unbelieveable is correct. But I am going to tell you something even more unbelieveable…your kids are receiving Muslim indoctrination at school. Their textbooks and the accompanying teachers' activites are the culprit. Take a look at this link.

Textbooks for Jihad:
[Link: www.frontpagemag.com...]

38 Buckaroo  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 3:21:58pm

#34 cba

While encouraging to read such words from a Muslim, the problem is this guy will have a fatwa issued against him before the month is out (if he hasn't already)

How do we cultivate enough of thse folks to get a critical mass of non-fanatic spokespeople?

39 Rayra[deleted]  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 3:47:47pm
40 cba  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 3:56:53pm

#38 Buckaroo:
He's been writing such things for a while, I just hadn't noticed.

I think we cultivate them by encouraging them--and taking encouragement from them. Irshad Manji says we should do it by asking Muslims the tough questions. [If you get a chance to hear her speak, run, don't walk!] And if you haven't yet, buy her book. It's very readable. I read it in an afternoon, I couldn't put it down.

41 Jakester  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 4:15:04pm

Of course, reporting on what they say and do is another vicious, Crusader-Zionist hate crime Charles. You are only supposed to write about the good things the RoP® is up to!

42 Julia the Horrible  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 4:20:25pm

#27 TQC: Radical Muslims have had control over such government institutions for some time. One has been the Lorton Correctional (bad joke) Facility, the District of Columbia's prison in Lorton, Virginia. Criminals who happen to be members of some 30 different Black Muslim groups have been sent there for "correction" for over 30 years. This is nothing new. It is difficult to say if they were Muslims when they were arrested or after their incarceration. But they had their own law and they had swords to enforce it.

We have had ample time to tune into this stuff, but none of it makes it to the mainstream news. CAIR is not a household word like al-Qaeda. If you ask someone what a Wahhabi is, you would probably get a blank stare.

The flip side: the so called "moderate" Muslims I have known did not wear traditional dress, have not set themselves apart from the mainstream noticeably except with their dietary laws. My contact has been mainly with professionals in the medical field in a University setting: doctors, psychiatrists, academic research scientists, or in the medical insurance industry. Some of them have been women, but none have worn headgear.

My overall impression is that they just wanted to fade into the woodwork culturally and socially. Their kids looked like everyone else's kids, with barbie sneakers and ninja turtles t-shirts.

I doubt that they would want to be a part of any movement to "speak out" on any radical Muslim issues. Appealing to them as a bloc would be like appealing to "moderate" Catholics over the issue of whether the Church should condone gay marriages.

Politics and religion are something we are supposed to be keeping separate in this country, or so I thought. I dont understand why people keep talking about "appealing to moderate Muslims." For what? Votes? Editorials? Testimonials?

Are they their brother's keepers? What responsibility do they have in all this? Any more than Christians have a responsibility to liberate China? Think about it.

43 levi from queens  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 4:48:21pm

Christians do have a responsibility to work for the liberation of China, and Sudan, and Saudi.... And there are some Christians working on each of these named and numerous others. And the worldwide church provides some, if insufficient, support to them.

44 Jakita  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 4:59:50pm

#37 epg . . .

As one who worked for many years in the textbook industry, I can tell you that textbook publishers are extremely susceptible to pressure from organized groups such as CAIR, etc.

They try to please "everybody" and pick up whatever garbage is fashionable at the moment. I watched the gradual emergence of Arafat as a "statesman" and the slow demonization of Israel as a "colonial country."

The only way to fight creeping Islamism in the schools is to protest the textbook selection at the local or state level, depending on your location.

Islam gets a pass in the schools, probably because the Muslims are seen as "non-whites" who need to be excused from whatever bad things are done in their name. White Christians, however, do not get the same excuses made for them.

45 Yee (Gitmo mozzie chaplain): charges dropped.  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 6:20:03pm

They dropped the charges on the ground of "the interest of national security" but they allow him to return to his Fort Lewis assignment.

Either he's not guilty and there should be no hinting that making public what he--allegedly (they dropped charges after all)--did would be detrimental to national security. If he's innocent then he's innocent and that's it.

But if indeed it is detrimental to national security, then he did something bad adn why re-assigning him to his post (and keeping him in the US military)?

Since when do we allow spies to keep their jobs in this country? Weird stuff...

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

46 Leah  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 7:37:15pm

Before OUR Govnt defines a Moslem group as NOT MODERATE (most of em are moderate..right?)..the head of the group will have to practically strut down Penn. Ave ..neket...with an A bomb strapped on his back. (dirty bomb) Pipes ought to know better than to use "definitions" such as Moderate with those Arabists at State and FBI and CIA..etc.. and try to get THEM to define the Terrorists AS the Terrorists they are.

Be ready for another "name" to be used. Not "Moderate" but something new to define a Moslem group as SORT OF reasonable and not Terrorist. Im waiting for that. I guess if you arent caught doing anything PHYSICAL..then you are in that catagory--the sort of Moderate Group. SHEEEESH.

47 Julia the Horible  Fri, Mar 19, 2004 8:45:26pm

#43 levi from queens

If that model is indeed true, then what really is difference between Muslims and Christians? Both want to overthrow the governments of other countries in the name of their prophets and establish their religion.

Is that, in fact, not what has been happening for hundreds of years? Has the world been any better for their religion being forced on anyone? That is debatable. Look at all the wars fought in the name of their Gods.

If you ask the native American peoples and Polynesians what they thought of being proselytized, you might get a very interesting answer. I prefer not to coerce anyone in a spirtual way. To me that is a very personal, private matter, and I resent people confronting me about it.

What I do not respect is a religion that allows its children to be raped by its leaders and then covers the crimes up. I do not respect a religion whose members enslaved other human beings and went to Church on Sunday thinking they were righteous men, including some of our own Presidents. I do not respect a religion whose members are still killing one another in Ireland, Bosnia-Herzogovina, Africa, because of politics and race.

I especially do not respect a religion that tries to dictate its social policy in a free country to people who are not members of their religion, such as prayer in public places and meetings, display of religious articles in public buildings, and religious practices in one's private home, such as what types of sex one is allowed to have.

We rail against the institution of shariah, but we had better take a look at how far "One Nation Under God" has led us first.

Shalom

48 Martel-Sobieski  Sat, Mar 20, 2004 6:12:48am

You know I love you, my fellow LGF-ers, but sometimes you are incredibly obtuse. Allow me to enlighten:

Machiavelliansim 101: Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer.

In other words, Know thy enemy.

These islamikaze-fascists are so obtuse, they will show up anywhere to spew thier hateful vomit. I say give them the spotlight, invite them all over town, let them have thier pictures taken, Let's get thier mug shots and addresses.

49 Martel-Sobieski  Sat, Mar 20, 2004 6:32:35am

Dang Julia, you ARE horrible.

I understand your distaste for the past sins of Christianity, but you have to admit, the Christianity of today, outside of perhaps Serbia, is no longer the crusading, oppressive political force of ages past. It has largely fallen under the spell of pussy-pink liberal "can't we all get along-ism" Hell, even the Pope blew little pink apology bubbles at the [bigoted word]s, "apologizing" for the Crusades, without even one tiny hint at the fact that they were in response to HUNDREDS of years of muslim aggression and THOUSANDS of bloody casualties.

Okay, there's the Spanish Inquisition, what was that, 500 years ago? Sexual abuse in the Catholic Church.
Yeah Okay, those are horrible things, and they are a stain on Christianity.

The difference is that we are CAPABLE of reform. We have seen the light and we do not accept these behaviours, especially on the part of what calls itself "religion."

Christianity at it's core is a force for peace and brotherhood, charity and compassion. The root of Christianity is love. Violence in Christianity is an aberration, and has been directed as much between christian sects as at outsiders, pehaps moreso.

Islam on the other hand, is a bloodthirsty, chauvinist, oppressive ideology at its core. The very root of this ideology, the (Mein) Koran (mpf) itself advocates all manner of treachery, violence and agression against all who don't accept islam, and advocates slavery, death and rape for all Christians and Jews who fall under its sway.

You cannot find anything analagous in the New Testament.

I'm sorry, but moral relativism just falls flat when we are faced with an implacable enemy that justifies all manner of evil in order to subjugate and destroy us.

Moral relativism is suicidal. Okay, our side has done shitty things, we should correct it. But does that mean we have to "accept" an ideology that nakedly wishes for our destruction???

Just what do you advocate here besides just "blah blah blah yadda yadda bitch bitch, we're as bad as they are?"

So what? I can live with a little bit of hypocrisy in order to preserve WHAT IS GOOD ABOUT WESTERN CIVILIZATION. Just because we have misbehaved in the past is no reason to defenstrate the entire enterprise.

Yeah there are Christian Yahoos who dabble in politics. Do they call the shots? hardly. Do they go nearly as far as the Jihadis? hardly. There is just no comparison. (Again with the possible exception of Serbia)

I wonder, how would Julia look in a Burkha ?

50 dick  Sat, Mar 20, 2004 11:34:38am

What bothers me is that the first couple of sentences of the article talk about the Congressional support and funding of this group. Why are they funding this mess in the first place? Don't they have any oversight in the operations of the group?


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Compare Electricity Prices in your area. Texas Electricity is deregulated; you have the right to choose Texas Electric Rates from among many Texas Electric Companies.

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