[zombie voice]

FRESSH BRRAINS!

[/zombi voice]

These idiots are jumping up and down and clapping as if they'd just won something.

I do so wish the IAF would bomb these little shindigs as well.

If this is typical of the intelligence level of the average Palestinian, Israel need not worry overmuch.

Those paleo mrolocks all seem to look alike!

Two quiet points:

I am relieved that Rantissi is dead - he was a murderer commanding murderers. Hopefully this will keep Hamas off-balance long enough for the peace process to move forward. I only hope that there were no bystanders killed or injured. I wish that the IDF could take out these people with a single bullet, but I understand when that can’t be achieved.

I don’t, however, understand the joyousness evident in many of the posts – the “blogswarm”, as it were - or the desire to desecrate Rantissi’s body. The man is dead. Objective achieved. Leave it at that. Some people’s desire to hang his body out to dry makes them no different in response to those who hung the American bodies off the bridge in Iraq. (Note – I am not saying that you are the same, only that the end result – the desire to humiliate an enemy, even in death – is).

A warrior and decent human being does not go around trading high-fives and whooping it up when his enemy is dead. He buries them, cracks a cold one, and plans the next operation.

And, while I don’t like to cross-post, I’d like to follow up to Coren’s column. It is the first step of brutality to suggest that Palestinian mothers don’t love their children the way “we” do. For all intents and purposes, many Palestinians have been brainwashed into believing that violence is the only way to achieve the goal of a Palestinian state. That doesn’t make them evil, any more than the population of Germany in 1945 or Hutu tribespeople in Rwanda during 1994 were evil, or the religion that they followed was evil. A Palestinian mother has been convinced that her child ought to participate in the struggle. That doesn’t mean she doesn’t love her child, only that her love has been twisted and misused by those in power.

People on this site are just as barbaric as the purported Palestinians celebrating 9/11.

You are both barbarians.

Bevakasha

Would Rantisi's blood work for the matzoes, or does it have to be from Christian child? Just wondering.

Yeah, those are some lucky prayer beads.

I really, really want to know what this is all about? How did this phenomenon start? Is this a new thing? Aside from being unhygenic and dangerous, it seems the opposite reaction one should have when someone they admire is killed.

I guess they do love death as much as we love life, by their own admission.

#5 Dudley Storey

If I were alive at the time, I would have celebrated the death of Hitler, Stalin and any number of genocidal tyrants. The only difference between those and Rantisi is that Rantisi was far less successful, but no less dedicated. I celebrate that his plans were thwarted, and that his evil no longer plagues the earth.

Caption for the bottom photo:

"Auughh!!! These aren't prayer beads..."

(photo) More car swarm dancing around with bloody hands...

[Link: story.news.yahoo.com...]

Geraldo (of all people!)appeared on Fox Just a Few Minutes ago and said (I rougly quote) -

"To be honest he had this coming. Every time I have interviewed him he has been opposed to any kind of compromise or peace and was among the most militant leaders in Gaza"

He then went on to criticize the President and White House -

"You know I have always been very supportive of the President and this administration in the way they are going after terror but what kind of wishy washy statement is this - (Reading White House Statement)

"We recognize Israel's right to defend itself but it should take into consideration etc..."

Geraldo concludes -"Either the White House supports it or it does not and it should send that message unequivocally"

You read that right, that was El Mustache... who to be truthful has publically supported Targeted Assassination in the past.

Mike

Anyone know what 'Bevakasha' means?

#5 Dudley Storey

Either we remind everybody what that 'person' stood for, or we let the left turn him into another 'martyr' to be used against us. I've had more than enough of Mohammed al-Dura. Forget about allowing a Yassin, a Rantisi or a Rachel Corrie to be used in the same way.

#6

Let me get this straight? Celebrating the death of a murderer who has promised to go on killing if not killed first is on a par with people celbrating the murder of thousands of innocent people??

In what universe do you live? I would like to lsee it through my telescope.

#6 isa

People on this site are just as barbaric as the purported Palestinians celebrating 9/11.

You mean those weren't real Palestinians?

isa is spamming

Those photos are just disgusting. The only explanation that I can think of is that these people are so convinced that they are victims and are so incensed in their martyrdom that they have gone mad, and they believe that this 'justifies' their hatred of Israel. It's like they are all dopplegangers to Mother Teresa. Are you sure this is on Planet Earth?

That doesn’t make them evil, any more than the population of Germany in 1945 or Hutu tribespeople in Rwanda during 1994 were evil

Dudley, those Germans who willingly participated in Jew extermination are as evil Charles Ng. Those "Pals" that encourage their children to strap on bombs and blow up ...NOT military targets, but discos and school buses get no pass on their evil actions.

Golda's quote is no less apt today then when she first said it:

There will be peace when Arabs love their children more than they hate Jews

isa, I see you, too, are from the moral equivalency brigade and the concept of "context" escapes you.

Time for some ululating courtesy of the IAF.

A warrior and decent human being does not go around trading high-fives and whooping it up when his enemy is dead.

I'm not a warrior. I'm not as decent as I used to be due to the Muslims killing Jews and trying to destroy the Jewish home. So I'm celebrating Abdel Rantisi reaping what he sowed and the Paleo's gnashing of teeth.

There is no joy in Gaza, for mighty Rantisi has flamed out. But it's great day for Israel.

As soon as I saw the headline on Drudge, I came straight here and bypassed all the "regular" media.

LGF never dissapoints.

#5 Dudley Storey

It is the first step of brutality to suggest that Palestinian mothers don’t love their children the way “we” do.

Dudley wake up! If there's a gun battle going on down at the corner, I don't send my children out to play. I don't send them to commit suicide. I don't kill them for "corroborating" or speaking with someone Jewish.

You can say the cause of the Pali's killing their children is due to religious brainwashing. But their children are dying needlessly nonetheless. Their "reasons/excuses" are irrelevant.

Time To Bomb...Saddam Rantisi

#5
I agree. Don't kill in the heat of anger and don't become your enemy. It is more than enough that they remain with you in death.

Colt

It means please in Hebrew

#28 AG in Houston

Thanks. Self-loathing Jew, or poseur?

Abdel Aziz Rantisi just starred in a remake of the movie, Chitty Chitty Bang BANG Quite the ending tho!

Can you say hepatitis? blood born pathogens? Cool.

What a great day.

I just spent the day walking round here and then get back to hear the wonderful news that Rantisi is dead!

To the little miseries who pull disapproving faces at the rejoicing - this is an evil man who was responsible for the deaths of many innocent people, who had every intention of continuing to be responsible for the deaths of many innocent people, and who, if he had not been killed, would have been responsible for the deaths of many more innocent people.

Now I've got to make a decision - chocolate first? Or a glass of wine?

What the hell is this guy doing? Sniffing the body?

UK Condemns Killing of Rantissi as Unlawful

This really turned into the mother of all car swarms. I'm amazed how those prayer beads are still in tact.

Jordan #11

LOL! and eeww!

Dudley Storey:

Some people’s desire to hang his body out to dry makes them no different in response to those who hung the American bodies off the bridge in Iraq.

If I recall correctly, the four "mercs" whose bodies were desecrated in Fallujah hadn't been calling on Americans to kill civilians. Big difference, don't you think?

I agree with #5 Dudley Storey.

Thanks for taking the time to write all of those thoughts down.

Unfortunate that such insightful analysis does not change the necessity of an overwhelming force response one iota.

#6 isa

We are making progress! Usually the left and such say we are worse than the actual terrorists. Pick up a book by Chomsky. Useful for those no toilet paper moments.

I'd explain why your moral compass is out of alignment, but you should be able to figure all that out over time. If you are a woman, drawing the equivalence is willful blindness.

Hamas is worse than the Nazis because:

(1) It claims religious authority and divine inspiration for mass murder.

(2) Hamas murders Jews inside the Jewish homeland. After the historical failure of the Diaspora experiment, Jews returned to their homeland as refugees from holocausts and other persecution. Without Israel, Jews have no other country that they can rely on to protect them from genocidal force that have chased them around the world since they were robbed of their homeland in the Roman holocaust centuries ago.

#33

I hope Rantisi was in some real pain in that picture.

#17 dan rudy

"In what universe do you live? I would like to lsee it through my telescope. "

But more importantly, does his universe have Globular Clusters?

/ducking and running away

Is it me or are the kids in the swarm pictures amused and smiling?

swarmer

Hey..i got a shoe...oh yeah, I got a seat
Future Al Bundy?

More seething

Car Swarm, Volume 2

...Now I've got to make a decision - chocolate first? Or a glass of wine?

WWMPD?
(What Would Mr Pol Do?)

Most everyone's probably seen the swarm video already, but it was amazing. After the bodies were long-ago hauled away, the creatures flipped the car over, then dove to the revealed pavement to find more flesh and gore to play in. Then a kid felt just so sad that he had to run up to the camera and pull a chunk of bloody flesh out of his ziplog bag and wave it around. A very sick culture.

#5 Dudley Storey: More disgusting animals celebrating in death, and on a far grander scale than we've seen today.

Good riddance. I think I might go outside and ullulate and hand out sweets to small choldren.

On second thought, maybe not. That might get me a trip to the local mental hospital or jail cell.

I'll just have a beer, then.

Cheers to the IAF. Keeping the barbarians behind the gates.

Go with the chocolate first, RC neo-Jew. If you drink as much as you should on an occasion like this, you won't appreciate the choc :-)

Three down and one to go!

Mahmoud al-Zahar you are next.
He is the one I despise the most.

This has been a great day. Pizza for a Platoon and Burgers for a Section. Well deserved.

RC neo-Jew, glass of wine gets my nomination.

In answer to no. 5, I am delighted to revel in the death of one of the most despicable excuses for a human being on this planet. Consider this - he was a pediatrician, for friggin out loud - a man who was trained to improve the health of young children - and the best he could come up with was a scheme to send other people's children (notice that his own kids never became suicide bombers) to slaughter the children of others to achieve his grand political agenda.

He is (or rather, was) the finest example of their degenerate culture, and a doctor worthy of Mengele's mantle. I am glad he's dead - think of how many lives will be spared - even Palestinian lives.

I had promised this blog's readers to send a big donation to an Israeli charity on this happy day, as I had done in honor of the death of Yassin. Can they please take out the Fish and call it a "tri-fecta?"

Darlene:

Thank you for your comments.

> Dudley, those Germans who willingly participated in Jew extermination are as evil Charles Ng.

I would agree - if we're talking about those who worked in Sobibor and Bergen-Belsen. But the mother who encouraged her son to fight "for the Fatherland" while Jews were being rounded up into ghettos? The grandmother who spat on the Jews next door because she had been convinced through years of propaganda that they were vermin? Were they evil? Or simply misled? Did that mother love her son any less?

dennisw, Mr Pol:

> I'm not as decent as I used to be...

And so you slide to embrace the thing you hate.

I think #1 Mike got it right:

The pictures look like something out of a George Romero film. Have we become so PC not to recognize ghouls?

I shit you not. The swarmer on the far right of the photo is wearing a santa clause hat. editorial.gettyimages.com...] target="_photo">

This photoeditorial.gettyimages.com...] target="_blank">

[Link: editorial.gettyimages.com...]

I have loathed Rantisi for years. He was so excited about being the NEW HAMAS leader after Shiekh Yassin's untimely death. Well we both got what we wanted; he got to be Hamas #1 and I got to see him dead "speedily in our days."

hey look! ..."the palis burn a tire to signify mourning"!!!

#54

LOL...damn I missed that...i would have titled the link...

Santa Swarmer or Santa's Little Swarmer

Words cannot express my dismay at such a horrendous and in humane act.

Ok, how about keep it up and don't stop. If they don't get the message then they deserve to to die for their brutish stupidity. Obviously they have trouble thinking outside the box, spelled coffin.
Hey Mr. Arafat, t'is the raven knocking, knocking at your door...

Reason #3 (continued from post #38 above) why Hamas is worse than the Nazis:

(3) Hamazoids declare they love death more than we (the civilized world) loves life.

Feel free to add to the list.

ted #53

As much as I hate the Corries, I don't think you should be posting her mom's email address. Trust me, I really hate those people; but that's too much. Sorry

#43 RC neo-Jew

Chocolate interferes with my drinking.

Re: Santa Hat

I think it's the "Rahman Model""

#51

Fuck you. Stop putting words in my mouth.

Surfing the Web, I found this very interesting report about Rantisi's unfortunate accident:

===

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (Mohammed Media) - A Zionist entity missile killed our beloved Hamas leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi as he rode in his car Saturday evening, Arab witchdoctors and hospital bomb makers said. Rantisi's son Mohammed and a bodyguard (also named Mohammed), were also killed in the attack according to PA spokesman Mohammed.

Rantisi's donkeyless carriage was hit with missiles Saturday evening on the road outside his home, leaving only the burned vehicle for a crowd of Palestinian barbarians to ransack for souvenirs. After the explosion, Israeli helicopters were seen dancing in the sky.

Rantisi was taken to hospital in very bad condition. In fact, he was dead. There was ice water streaming from his head and neck.

Palestinian officials condemn Israeli strike

"We condemn in the strongest possible terms this Israeli crime of assassinating Dr. Rantisi, our beloved Jooo-killer and heir to Adolph Hitler's throne. This is state terror, and the Israeli government is fully responsible for the consequences of this action," Palestinian fat head Saeb Erekat said.

Witnesses said there were three subhumans in the car at the time of the explosion. "I was beating the shiite out of my wife when suddenly I heard a boom!" said a not-so-innocent bystander.

The dead included Mohammed, 35, Rantisi's personal bodyguard and his son Mohammed, 27, hospital officials said. Rantisi's wife, also named Mohammed, was in the car, but the evil Zionist entity's missiles are designed to spare the lives of our proud warriors' female slaves.

About 2,000 Palestinian barbarians marched through the streets carrying pieces of Rantisi's flesh shouting, "less filling, tastes great."

Shooting was heard in the center of Gaza City as confused Muslims began shooting anything suspected of being alive.

"This blood will not be wasted," said Ismail Haniyeh, a Hamas leader at the hospital. "We will make a delicious soup."

Rantisi is, er was, Hamas' top Islamo-fascist in Gaza and one of the most dedicated members of the Palestinian Death Cult. Rantisi called for killing all Joos, "Particularly the children, women, elderly, and sick--because we are too cowardly to fight the Israeli army."

Israel had previously tried to kill Rantisi June 10 when three Apache helicopters fired at least seven missiles toward Rantisi's car in a crowded Gaza thoroughfare, reducing his vehicle to a scorched heap of camel meat. Rantisi escaped with a wound to the right leg.

In an attack the next day, 16 Israeli civilians were killed as part of the Arabs' heroic "legitimate resistance." This was followed by street parties in Gaza, Jenin, and other Palestinian cities. The mother of the homicide bomber said she was proud to breed "bomb transport units" and added "I didn't like that kid anyway."

Israeli officials justified the attack on the flimsy basis that Arab jihadists have killed more than 900 innocent people over the past 3 1/2 years.

The explosion occurred Saturday night a block from Rantisi's house in the Sheik Radwan neighborhood of Gaza City, about 100 yards from where Hamas founder Sheik Ahmed Yassin was buried after Israel assassinated him last month, on a patch of road known as "Dead Man's Curve."

Since then, Israel has vowed to kill all members of Islamic mass murder gangs, "Except we can't count that high," said a spokesman from PM Sharon's office.

During the mourning period for Yassin, observed by the entire Muslim world, Rantisi brushed off Israel's threats against him.

"I double dare you to get me, nyah, nyah," he said.

===

It looks like alot of debris for a car seat. Are they using mattresses for anti missile protection now?

Associated Press Article that is being carried word for word identically at CBSNEWS and the NY Times.
On the Rantisi strike -

Israel Kills Top Hamas Leader
[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]
(CBS/AP) An Israeli missile strike killed Hamas leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi as he rode in his car Saturday evening, hospital officials said. Rantisi's son Mohammed and a bodyguard were also killed in the attack.

The militant Hamas leader was one of Israel's top targets after it assassinated Hamas founder Sheik Ahmed Yassin in an airstrike last month.

Rantisi's car was hit with missiles Saturday evening on the road outside his home, leaving only the burned, destroyed vehicle. Israeli helicopters were heard in the area.

Notice the adjectives... and the exact description of who was killed versus some general statistics typical in a random meaningless suicide bombing like the one THIS MORNING at the Erez Crossing..

Rantisi was taken to the hospital in critical condition, his body pocked with bloody wounds and blood streaming from his head and neck. He was taken to emergency surgery but died five minutes after arriving at the hospital.

Any words necessary to describe these adjectives for the galant leader mass murderer of Hamas?

Palestinian officials lashed

#51 Dudley Storey:

That's just the thing, Dudley. Palestinian mothers, on average don't love their children as much as Israeli or American or Western mothers do. The evidence for this fact is overwhelming. Hell, there are many quotes from THEM that manke this point explicitly. It's a cultural disease and a tragedy but it's also a fact. Your unsupported assumption to the contrary suggests that you haven't really examined the situation.

RC -

Candy is dandy,

But liquor is quicker. :)

The really ironic thing about all this, is that even these maniacs cannot match the facial expression of utter hateful rage that we saw in the classic Corrie picture.

#51 -

Germans did not encourage their sons to become suicide bombers.

I posted a Help Wanted add for Hamas as soon as I heard the good news here.

Lead paragraph on JPost story about Rantasi:

Hamas chief Khaled Mashal has told the Gaza Hamas to keep the name of their new leader a secret.

LOL, I guess so.

Palestinian officials lashed the Israeli strike.
"We condemn in strongest possible terms this Israeli crime of assassinating Dr. Rantisi. This is state terror, and the Israeli government is fully responsible for the consequences of this action," Palestinian Cabinet minister Saeb Erekat said.

The dead included Akram Nassar, 35, Rantisi's personal bodyguard and his son Mohammed, 27, hospital officials said. Rantisi's wife was in the car, but her condition and location was not known, hospital sources and Hamas said.

Were there any details given on who was killed and injured in the Erez bombing earlier today to which Hamas and Fatah both gleefully claimed credit for?
Any reason why they are bombing a joint industrial zone that Israel created to employ thousands of Gazan Palestinians?
History of Attacks at Erez Crossing -
[Link: www.imra.org.il...]

About 2,000 angry Palestinians marched through the streets carrying pieces of Rantisi's car shouting, "revenge, revenge."
Shooting was heard in the center of Gaza City and people were chanting Rantisi's name.

"This blood will not be wasted," said Ismail Haniyeh, a Hamas leader at the hospital. "We are not going to give up."

Rantisi was Hamas' top leader in Gaza and one of the most hard-line members of the militant movement. He rejected all compromise with Israel and calls for the destruction of the Jewish state.

Israel had previously tried to kill Rantisi June 10 when three Apache helicopters fired at least seven missiles toward Rantisi's car in a crowded Gaza thoroughfare, reducing his vehicle to a scorched heap of metal. Rantisi escaped with a wound to the right leg. Two Palestinian bystanders were killed.

Notice the adjectives.

In a retaliatory attack the next day, 16 Israelis were killed in a Hamas suicide bombing in Jerusalem.

THAT IS A COMPLETE LIE, HAMAS HAD ADMITTED THAT ATTACK HAD BEEN PLANNED FOR MONTHS!! And also admitted it takes months to plan, organize and execute an attack like that! And here is the AP repeating this blatant lie inferring a "cycle of violence" and CBS "News" and the NY Times repeating it word for word!!

Israeli officials justified the attack as part of the ongoing battle against militants who have killed more than 900 Israelis in attacks over the past 3-1/2 years of violence.

Pali officials "lashed" out at the attacks and Israeli officials "justified" the attack!!

No word on CBS News Opinion on the Erez Crossing Suicide Bombing earlier today???...(crickets churping……)

Israel has stepped up strikes on Hamas in advance of a proposed unilateral pullout from Gaza. Israeli officials have said they hope a string of military successes to show that the militant group was not driving it out of the coastal strip...

CAN ANYONE SHOW ME A PLACE WHERE ISRAELI OFFICIALS SAID THIS? Or did CBS just make this one up?

The explosion occurred Saturday night a block from Rantisi's house in the Sheik Radwan neighborhood of Gaza City, about 100 yards from where Yassin was buried after Israel assassinated him last month.

Again notice the poetic incredible details!!! Even describing where where Hamas leaders are buried!!

Since then, Israel has vowed to kill the entire leadership of the Islamic militant organization.

THEY HAVE? CAN YOU BELIEVE THE BALLS OF THIS """News""" organization...

They should be sued for that statement unless they can prove it!!

Mike

I see that early on this thread has been befouled by trolls.

It wouldn't take the whole post at once??
Started in post #68

#5 Dudley Storey
Sorry, they don't love their children. Proof is in the LGF slide show of palestinian child abuse. The pictures tell truth.

Mothers who love their children keep them out of danger even if danger is at their doorstep. If you look at the Getty pictures you will see tiny children picking through human remains.

Even animals protect their children to their dying breath.

I just sat with my Vietnamese nail guy. He told me stories of how his father stood up for truth. How many times he and others were dragged from their homes and jailed, often times killed. He told me his father always said, " I speak the truth for you, for your grandchildren and my great great grandchildren."

My friend told me how his mother protected both he and the other 12 of his siblings in incredible ways of sheer love and valor. "My mother is not so special, after all, is this not what all mothers do?" He said there is no such thing as brainwashing. At the end of our visit he very clearly stated that it is time the world stop whitewashing those who are evil and that it is a disservice to truth and righteousness to continue the lie that these people want peace.

Amen.

isa, #6,

Lama katavta et "bvakasha" b'ivrit? Lama lo stam "please," b'anglit?

Pashut tahiti...

You all need to be more accurate in the langauge you use. Not all Israelis support Israel's policies towards the occupation and not all Palestinians hate Jews. Not all palestinians are suicide bombers or support the actions of suicide bombers.

Not all palestinian mothers support their children becoming suicide bombers and not all Israeli mothers support their children serving in the IDF. Maybe more palestinian mothers will love their children more than they hate the jews, when Israel stops killing the children of palestine with its military gunships, its tanks, and its child soldiers.

Why do they do this? This is barbaric!

The BBC's gone nuts!

I was listening to their talk station, 5 livr, they had 4 'experts' on, in a row, all were anti-Israel.

I called them up and asked if they couldn't have just one pro-Israeli... some hope.

The European Left is going crazy, they want the Jews to sit tight and be nice, just like we did in 1930.

Some hope!

Geez, I never would have guessed Rantisi's penis was that big...

D. Edgren

Maybe more palestinian mothers will love their children more than they hate the jews, when Israel stops killing the children of palestine with its military gunships, its tanks, and its child soldiers.

So it's Israel's fault that the Palestinians don't love their children more. Got it. Is there anything that the Palestinians are responsible for? Anything at all?

#62 Ms. Andi---Mother Corries email address is public domain,like all of ours...In addition its her address at Counterpunch, a jew hating leftist rag that frequently spews vicious anti-semitic lies and rhetoric...Ted

Note to all terrorists:

This is what happens when you fuck with G-d's Chosen People.

Next?

#51 Dudley

While I would need more context on a German mom encouraging her son to defend the Fatherland, I would definitely put the spitting grandma in the death camp guard category.

You seem to forget that one of the reasons the Germans were so successful in rounding up Jews and having them almost go willingly into the camps is that the Jews, considering themselves "good Germans" and believing in the humanness of their neighbors, couldn't bring themselves around to the concept of the evil their own neighbors were about to perpetuate on them.

Certainly existence Righteous Gentiles who hid and saved countless Jews demonstrate that one can find themselves in the midst of evil and still act morally.

Those moslems who gave willingly of their jewlrey and their children to Hamas are no different then the Germans who knew what the camps were all about and still turned in their neighbors.

Oh God.. what morons this site attracts.

>Israel stops killing the children of palestine with its military gunships, its tanks, and its child soldiers.

I've never heard of a child being killed by a tank or agunship, unless when we're slaughtering Islamazoid Hammas idiots.

No woner we're in so much trouble with idiots like this.

True-The guy was well hung--72 Virgins---Enjoy !!!

"Mohammed, can I borrow your Purell?"

Iron Fist, Colt, zulubaby, Mr Pol

Thanks for all the the advice! And now whisky has been added to the list (thanks, Iron Fist!).

I've found a compromise solution - drinking a glass of wine while looking wistfully at a box of chocolates. Later...

The BBC news has just shown the car swarm, including boy gleefully waving plastic bag full of terrorist giblets. Whatever the BBC words accompanying the image, perhaps viewers can draw their own conclusions from what they see.

Palestinian boy: "...Now I've got to make a decision - giblets first? Or this other tasty morsel I picked up?"

With the porn industry now closed,in california, due to aids--These pictures of his car gives a new meaning to the term "money shot"

78 Aahron

Not all Israelis support Israel's policies towards the occupation and not all Palestinians hate Jews. Not all palestinians are suicide bombers or support the actions of suicide bombers.

Ok. Be sure to call me when anything like a sizeable number begin to agitate for an end to suicide bombings. Those few Palestinians who are disgusted by it (my neighbors are one family that had the good sense to flee the madhouse) aren't often heard from...usually because they're executed as collaboraters.

I hope whoever killed Dru Sjodin rots in hell, but I'll just be somber if the killer is executed or some inmate takes justice into his own hands.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who realized when Dhamer was sentenced to life in prison, within the general prison population, some crazy person would take justice into his own hands.

Another way of looking at it is "self-defense."

To tie up the metaphor -- the terrorists are the serial murdering cannibals while we are the crazy inmate. It's time to choose sides or be destroyed.

ted: sorry, I don't allow stuff like that to be posted at LGF, as a rule. If you want to point out the page at counterpunch that's OK; presumably she gave permission for it to be there.

Ken Yovdu kol oyvecha israel!
כן יאבדו כל אויבך ישראל!

Tell ya what I've often thought (worried) about...

After these guys get themselves all whipped up into a frenzy on violence, destruction, death, blood, religion, and hatred, what happens when they go home? Behind closed doors. I'll bet a lot of battering and rape.

OT OT OT
Canada secured the release of one of its citizens taken hostage in Iraq on the suspicion of being Israeli. I wrote a little rant on it on my web forums (semi-trolling for membership/interest).

Don't kill him! He's not Israeli!

Frank IBC:

> Germans did not encourage their sons to become suicide bombers.

Quite so. If that is the lynchpin of your belief in their difference, let's take the Japanese. What about the mother who encouraged her son to become a kamikaze pilot? Evil or misled? Did she love her son any less?

#78

Maybe more palestinian mothers will love their children more than they hate the jews, when Israel stops killing the children of palestine with its military gunships, its tanks, and its child soldiers.

Good lord, does that so sound like an excuse a crack mom gives when trying to explain why she left the house looking to score and her 1 yr old and 5 yr old almost die because the 5 yr turned on the gas stove.

#79 Aahron

Maybe more palestinian mothers will love their children more than they hate the jews, when Israel stops killing the children of palestine with its military gunships, its tanks, and its child soldiers.

I don't know about you, hotshot, but as a father, love for my child is one of those rock-bottom, non-negotiable things, and isn't dependent upon anything else. It would be nice if any sizeable numbers of Palestinians felt the same way.

I notice in all of the car swarming photos that there are no female swarmers present. Are the ghouls only males? Do they bring home assorted body parts and fluids for the ladies to admire?

#51: Even if they think they love their children as much as or more than us, they've got "love" all wrong. Sending children (and believe me, I'm not usually a "who will think about the children" type) out to die for a cause is wrong, it is not love. If christianity was doing this, the whole world would cry out against it. Instead, we're supposed to "understand" their culture. I don't care anymore. I don't want to understand anymore. This is a death cult. This is Jonestown on a grand scale. From they time the are born till the time they die they are taught jew-hatred. That seems kinda screwed up to me, does it to you? I just spent more time studying the Quran yesterday and it does indeed expect them to kill everyone one who doesn't believe what they do. It has a lot of hate in it, but it isn't subtle about the hate. There is no "love they neighbor", there is "love they neighbor until at which point he is decieved, then murder the infidel." I kid you not, its freaky stuff. This is why you see so many of these terrorists in different countries and different sects doing this stuff. It's in their friggin' book. I had an "aha" moment when I got really at the core of why those evil men were willing to fly themselves into buildings. It is hard to swallow, and I seriously find myself confused as to what do and how to stay true to my heart after learning this stuff. I wasn't taught to hate and I don't want to hate. But their religion is wrong and centers around death. This is tuff stuff for any civilized people to take in. And thats why we are having such a "split" in how we feel about this war. My leftie friends want so badly to believe that this isn't about the religion itself, but it is.

Re: #5

Get a grip.

It is not unusual to humiliate your enemy in defeat.

Short of taking your enemy behind a wall and saying you're sorry that you have to kill him by putting a well placed bullet in his head most executions and conquests are marked by a liberal helping of pageantry and theater. There are well defined components of defeat that must encompass the mind as well as the body to be effective. The word subjugate is derived from the the latin "sub" meaning under and "jugare" meaning yoke. Defeated enemies were forced to march single file beneath a suspended yoke in recognition of their "subjugation". It was not uncommon to line the Apia with crucified opponents. If they have no honour or shame in life and they wish to die fighting us then we should be free to choose the time, method and place. Unarmed civilians is an entirely different matter, otherwise damn them!

Someone has to make sure they got enough condoms in their "heaven" for all the promised virgins!

I start to believe that some of the "virgins" are used or refurbished since lately too much terrorist are coming in their gates

Aahron Israeli defends itself against acts of aggression; I am tired of people like you using that line.

Israel has a right to exist, these terrorist groups are out to destroy them. What do you expect them to do? Invite them over for some fucking Tea? These Jordanians/Egyptians (because that's what they are, no such thing as a Palestinian, it's a roman name given to the region and if anyone is Palestinian it's the Jews). keep attacking them, then they have no other option to do then to attack back. But unlike the Jorygptians, they don't kill innocent people, they hit the scum who deserve it.

It's their right, As a Sovereign State.

Not all palestinians are suicide bombers or support the actions of suicide bombers.

While that may be true, polls show that most do support violence and suicide bombings.

Poll Finds Vast Majority Of Palestinian Arabs Will Support Violence Even It They Get A State

Poll: 75% of Palestinians support Haifa restaurant attack

#73 Mike

I too get upset with the way the media slant all things Israeli, but there are plenty of better times to seethe at them. Today is a day for celebration of the very timely death of another terror master.

I just got in from a wonderful, long day of little league baseball (I have 3 sons who play) and am overjoyed and delighted to hear the news, despite how the LLL press slants the stories. I am confident that the splodeydope supporters in the media and elsewhere are on the retreat.

It has been so much fun this week reading their rants at President Bush coming out in support of the forces of good. And you can bet they'll rant again at this glorious action. As others have suggested here, kick back with a scotch and a chocolate (or a beer and stogie if you prefer) and enjoy. There have been more good days than bad since the IAF took out Sauruman, and I believe that there will be many more good days to come, as long as the Israelis keep their foot on the Paleo's throat.

Congrats to the IAF.

Dudley Storey (#97)

What about the mother who encouraged her son to become a kamikaze pilot? Evil or misled?

What does it matter whether she was evil or misled? Any mother who encourages the death of her child is beneath contempt. I can't imagine why you think there is any excuse for this.

Palestinians are not born as suicide bombers, it's the environment and conditins in which they're forced to live that make some of them more susceptible to the extremists. There'd be no reason for people to resort to suicide bombing if your respected their same right to a state that you claim for Israel. You should also realise that not all Palestinians are Muslim, a sizeable number are Christian.

#97 Dudley Storey

Evil. And yes, that hypothetical Japanese mother valued her love for her son less than her loyalty to Emperor Hirohito.

#72 Ted

If he left, uh, it behind, what's he gonna do with those virgins?

'course, given its apparent size, wouldn't have been much use anyway.

D. Edgren

This car swarm was the most depraved thing I have ever seen. Both Fox and CNN showed the dancing, the car overturn, the bloody hands, the dead body, the kid holding up the plastic bag full of (presumably) bloody body tissue, someone holding up what looked like a scalp. Depraved.

How much for those lovely beads?

Regards,

Michael Morris

#107 zulubaby

What does it matter whether she was evil or misled? Any mother who encourages the death of her child is beneath contempt. I can't imagine why you think there is any excuse for this.

Because where he is going is that the Pals are not responsible for their actions, because they were "misled" Standard LLL crap, nobody is responsible, nobody is evil, they are just misunderstood.

And as for Israeli defending itself against acts of agression, why does it destroy the houses of people who are susupected of crimes.suspected How is that defence? If it is really only about defense why does the " security wall" make large inroads into palestinian land? Why are there checkpoints into areas like Beit Sahour, but other roads out of Beit Shaour free to travel on (not very effective if they are only there to "defend"). Take a proper look at what the Israeli military is doing in Palestine - it's not about defense -it's military occupation.

Palestinians are not born as suicide bombers, it's the environment and conditins in which they're forced to live that make some of them more susceptible to the extremists.

Nonsense, they're bred to be mass-murderers, they're not any more or less susceptible to violence than any other people -- they're brainwashed to hate from birth. There are plenty of underprivileged people in this world, there are many poor countries. Blame Arafat and his Arab brethren for the Palestinians shitty lives. Why should the Israelis be responsible for the Palestinians? The Palestinians are not Israeli citizens and if they were serious and sincere in their desire for a state, they could have had one long ago. I ask you, is there anything that the Palestinians are responsible for or is everything the Israelis' fault?

So, is there enough of him left to fill one of those 1000 pound Velveeta boxes they use?

N. O'Brain
Imperial Minister of Useless Knowledge

Dudley #97

– it’s helpful that you compare the Palestinians to the pre WWII Germans and Japanese.

How, exactly, did we solve the problems caused by societies that had embraced fascism? How did we successfully help ‘misled’ people in the past?

If we're willing to learn from history, how should we solve that problem now?

#70 Frank IBC

Candy is dandy,

But liquor is quicker. :)

Little Palestinian boy:

Blood
Is good,
Gore, even more,
But bits of Rantisi
Keep me busy.

True colors...

I have to say, I cannot side with those who on this and the far larger Rantisi-is-Dead threads have repeatedly (and rather childishly) offered electronic high-five's, drinks, wishes of excellent result, and so on. I'm sorry, but it ain't so.

Isael, using its superior military advantage, its pervasive informer network, and its nearly untouchable military acumen, has offed another dispicible terror organization leader. As far as I'm concerned, they have that right, they've exercised that right, and they shall probably continue to execute those who publicly advocate harm-to-Israel. Maz'l Tov to sound policy.

But, in so doing, they've again demonstrated the huge disparity between their "militant Islamic" neighbors' military system, and their own. This does not play well anywhere in the world. The "David & Goliath" story is just too pervasive for the Palestinians not to be thought of as the plucky-if-unfortunate David's of the Middle East.

And this is a problem for Israel. The world (minus the U.S.) is playing its endless rhetorical ode, "Israel is guilty of using too much force, for killing innocent bystanders, of violating Geneva conventions, of not exercising restraint, and unilaterally ruining the possibility of a peace-agreement". Yada, yada.

Previously, I've argued that Israel is actually going to get results by what they're doing: walls, assassinations, incursions, intelligence gathering, retaliatory house levelings, airwave propaganda, etc. The "UN" world isn't going to like it. But they're going to get results. I just wish we here dint' sound so much like a flock of demented vultures, sitting on a powerline, beside ourself with glee, that another terrorist roadkill is up for grabs. Uncouth!

Let us step back instead, and think of a better, more permanent response that carries the right message: "Israel has again followed through with her committment to destroy the virulent 'Leadership' of the so-called Palestinian people. It is a time of dark certainty, and certain change. But the war is not over, and will not be until Israel secures a durable and comprehensive peace with all of its neighbors. One less naysayer graces the planet. Amen."

No high-fives, no vapid silliness about baking cookies to break Atkins diets, no mocking the 97% of the transjordanian indigenies who are sick and tired of the intifada, the 97% who want peace, jobs, food, shelter, to raise a family, to live themselves in freedom. These are the people that I worry about.

GoatGuy

[Link: queen-fip.com...]

MERCEDES M-400 SUV, 11,000km, 1 missile strike
Prev owner pediatrician, only drove it to mosque on Fridays
scorched leather interior, 6-way surround sound CD changer
Price: Willing to negotiate, except with Israel

And as for Israeli defending itself against acts of agression, why does it destroy the houses of people who are susupected of crimes.suspected How is that defence?

The Israelis destroy the houses of the suicide bombers, nothing suspect about it. Where are you getting this nonsense from?

Is there any doubt that Dudley Story is really Double Standard under a new nic?

You twat. It's not about underprivilege. It's about having to be humiliated at checkpoints every day, seeing your parents humiliated at checkpoints, having bullets from settlements come into your home, teargas in your school (especially if you live in Qalquilya), your fatehr taken away in the night and held without trial, your home demolished because your dfather is in prison (without trial).

#108 Aahron

Palestinians are not born as suicide bombers, it's the environment and conditins in which they're forced to live that make some of them more susceptible to the extremists.

Absolutely correct. And take a good, long look at some of that conditioning...

And please don't blather on about how 'the occupation made me do it' Palestinian Arabs hated the Jews long before 1967, and long before 1948. See here and here.

Read up and come back with some facts, child. You're just embarrassing yourself.

Thoughtless comments from the [Hebrew] Walla board;

"When's the funeral?"---"If we continue like this...there'll be no virgins left in heaven!"

"Say "Shalom" to Yassin!"

No one ever accused us of being too P.C.!!!

Aahron

Note the (mis)spelling.

Idiot.

#78

Go find a tank to throw rocks at.

Engineer (#113)

Because where he is going is that the Pals are not responsible for their actions, because they were "misled" Standard LLL crap, nobody is responsible, nobody is evil, they are just misunderstood.

Nobody is responsible except the Jews, except the Americans. These people are such condescending bigots, it's amazing.

These people are unable to self-govern, unable to build anything, yet they sure know how to rip stuff to shreds.

@51 Dudley Storey

It would be wise if you were to do a search on Mr.Pol before you cast aspersions on him.
He is no where near sliding into becoming that which he hates.

You twat.

Fuck off.

It's about having to be humiliated at checkpoints every day, seeing your parents humiliated at checkpoints, having bullets from settlements come into your home, teargas in your school (especially if you live in Qalquilya), your fatehr taken away in the night and held without trial, your home demolished because your dfather is in prison (without trial).

Total lies. Again, fuck off.

I condemn these barbaric and illegal actions taken against an individual, a doctor, who committed his entire life to the well being of children

Aahron

Grow up.

American provocation on the Walla site;

A Proud Christian
IDF - The Best Army in The World. Salute Israel.
I am a proud American Christian and I say there is no army in the world like the Israeli Army. We here in America should learn from you a chapter in fighting terrorism. Israel and IDF - I salute You.
May Death Prevail to all the islamic terrorist infidals.
Israel and IDF - Hip Hip Hurray, Hip Hip Hurray

[Link: news.walla.co.il...]

Great news.

Been out working all day away from any news source.

Opening a 1998 Chateau Montelena Cabernet I'd been saving for a special ocassion. Bwahahahahahah.

Cheers.

Just one question:

Isn't "swarming" usually used to describe insects?

C'est tres tres mal, les Israeliens n'ont aucune morale.

I am a man, by the way.

Ah, yes...the "humiliation" of the checkpoints.

{cloying violin music}

There'd be no reason for people to resort to suicide bombing if your respected their same right to a state that you claim for Israel.

There'd be no reason for people to resort to Qwiki-Mart stickups if you respected their "right" to a job just like yours!

You're a recent college grad with a Liberal Arts BA, right?

Darlene:

It's ironic - I wish I had as high a belief in absolute human morality as you do. But as has been shown in repeated, replicated experiments (most particularly by Milgrim in his experiments in 1953), most people - from Palestinians to the majority of posters on this site - believe what they are told, especially when they are told by someone they percieve to be an authority figure. This will - again, this has been proven - overcome whatever sense of right and wrong they have.

selpaw's example is a wonderful exception - but it is just that, an exception. People will commit atrocities because they have been told to do so by someone in power. It doesn't mean that they don't love their children, or that they are subhuman.

Again, I would submit the case that by agreeing with the statement "Palestinian mothers don't love their children" you are pathing the way to treat all Palestinians as vermin.

And for those who don't think this site has a deeply bigoted thread running through it, please read up. I mean really read, without saying "Awww, he's just angry". Read the person who recommended throwing another cluster bomb into the street to kill bystanders around the car. Read the lines calling Palestinians "creatures", "degenerate", and "paleos". Take a look at the person who says "they all look alike". And then reconsider the implications of the line "Palestinian mothers don't love their children".

And isn't it spelled humilyaaashun?

#108 Aahron

You should also realise that not all Palestinians are Muslim, a sizeable number are Christian.

Not very many, and those are leaving:

The small Christian Arab community in the areas under Palestinian Authority (PA) control has been a major victim of the current Palestinian violence, resulting in accelerated Christian emigration from the territories since September 2000.
...
Population estimates, made by Ibrahim Kandelaft, PA Chairman Yasir Arafat’s adviser on Christians and church affairs, and seen in the graph below, show a considerable decline in the number of Christians in the West Bank — from 35,000 in 1997 to 25,000 in 2002, a drop of 29 percent. In the Gaza Strip, the number diminished from 2,500 to 2,000, or 20 percent, during the same period.

Abdel Aziz, do you have an aspirin. I've got a splitting headache, well, you kow what I mean, mmhh?

#139 Darleen

You're a recent college grad with a Liberal Arts BA, right?

LOL! I smell a 22 year old with a Kaffiyeh and a shrine to the late Ms. Corrie.

Hey Aahron!

Make you a deal! I'll use my Zionist Conspiracy connections to stop the checkpoints from [boo frickin' hoo] humiliating anyone, if you can stop the Palestinians from waging a genocidal war of attrition against Israelis. Deal?

Bathing in the magical blood of a genocidal monster. Just a typical day on [bigoted word] Planet.

#124 A

You twat

How puerile. How totally contemporary American Left all cultures are equal except America and Israel who are at the core of everything wrong with the world.

Any more American Liberal Arts university bilge to divulge here? Was that you in the Frisco pro-terrorist marches with the "I love NY especially without the WTC" poster?

I lay huge odds you're anti-death penality, too.

Okay, and back to the issue of house demolitions, have you actually read the reports on house demolitions. On Wednesday a house in Beit jala was destroyed at 4.15 in the morning on the grounds that one of the men who lived in the house (it also contacined his father and his brother's family) was susupected of planning a suicide bomb attack. He has had no trial, and the house isn't his - it's his fathers. And he obviously wasn't a suicide bomber because he's still alive!

Just found out and thought of you all here. Congratulations to the IAF. I am glad that another man whose life purpose was to plan the death of women and children is no longer doing such. Now begins the only "cycle" I like: the media will slant things (Israel assassinates...), the trolls will whine that we are hateful for celebrating death, and everyone will be told that this was a bad move because it will only make things worse. (If Rantisi was always the "hard-liner" in news stories since Yassin's death, will the new leader be a "harder-liner?") I don't enjoy the particulars of the cycle, but find them quite tolerable knowing their catalyst. I would gladly be annoyed in such a manner every day knowing that it meant we were planting a terrorist leader a day.

And oh, Aahron, if I did not make myself clear

you are one meshugga shmok!

Basques
Catalonians
Sami
Corsicans
Languedocians
Serbs in Croatia and Bosnia
Irish Catholics in Northern Ireland
Native Americans
Welsh
Scots
Manx
Cornish
Inuit
Galicians
Quebecois
Maya
Lebanese Christians
Armenians in Turkey
Kurds

Just some of the many groups in the world which have a desire for their own state...funny how none of them feel the need for suicide bombing, only the Palestinians.

#97

First and foremost I don't recall ever hearing of kamikaze pilots being instructed to fly into discoteques, grocery stores, cafes, public busses, and markets to name but a few non-military targets. They typically attacked military targets. If they wish to die fighting an opponents military then that is surely their perrogative and they can be commended for their sacrifice.

Get your head out of your ass neck time you read a history book. It will certainly improve your comprehension.

At least the mother of the kamikaze pilot encouraged her son to attack military targets, not discos, pizza parlours or bar mitzvahs.

Aahron

I guess he couldn't decide whether to use the English or the Hebrew spelling, so he split the difference.

147 Aahron

I'm assuming you have a link (containing evidence of said person's innocence, ownership of the house, etc) to back that claim up.

Care to respond to the comments in #125?

#119 GoatGuy

the 97% who want peace,

Where did you get that figure from?

It contradicts the findings of various polls, like this one posted by zulubaby above: Poll: 75% of Palestinians support Haifa restaurant attack

Yip, I'd flee a palestinian controlled area too. You're far more likely to be killed living in a Palestinian controlled area, than living in Israel. It's part of Israel's "defense" system.
Interesting that the report relates to bethlehem. Isn't that the key area that Christians curently live in, whcih makes it really difficult for Israel, as the siege of the Church of nativity showed. Too many people are wathcing what happens there for Israel to feel comfortable.

Aahron: It's easy. Palestinians stop their murderous ways, no houses get blown up. Someone in your immediate family is a terrorist. Everybody suffers. Solution. Mamma Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to Be Terrorists.

Well, another psycho bites the dust. The Hamas must be in pretty bad shape by now.

More lies from "Aahron".

@108

Is a troll...and a Jew hating TROLL>

Aahron: No the media is too biased to really dwell on the points that Islamists desecrated the Church of Nativity. It's one thing when they use their own mosques as staging points but to use a Christian shrine, I'm disgusted. The Christian population is getting out because the worst kind of Islamists are running the Pali show. Look at their "constitution", the PA is an Islamic state.

There is absolutely no justification for taking the Palestinian side in this issue unless you are a certified Jew Hater.

#156 Aahron

as the siege of the Church of nativity showed.

Palestinian terrorists take refuge in one of the holiest places in all of Christendom, trash the place, and then get an all expenses paid trip to Cyprus because the Israeli's, unlike the Palestinians, show respect for the holy places of other faiths, and you turn that fact into an anti-Israeli jab...how?

You have yet to provide a source for you information, respond to my comments in #125, or on the results of the poll showing that the overwhelming majority of Palestinians support suicide bombings of civilians.

Aziz Poonawalla pulls some comments from the topic about Rantisi's death, and pronounces LGF a home for immoral ghouls:

UPDATE: Of course, Israeli partisanship has no shortage of depraved, immoral ghouls. Crowing about the death of a child - any child - is a clear marker of evil.

[Link: unmedia.blogspot.com...]

Just one problem, Aziz. Rantisi's son was twenty seven years old.

Hardly a child.

Ummm, Christians are fleeing the PA because the PA is persecuting them. It's shameful.

Aaron, you really need to provide more facts or links to them. Otherwise you come across as a squawking parrot. You should also apologize to zulubaby.

"Israeli government sources said they had struck at the first available opportunity, but had to wait for weeks because Rantisi had surrounded himself with children. "

The man is dead. Objective achieved. Leave it at that. Some people’s desire to hang his body out to dry makes them no different in response to those who hung the American bodies off the bridge in Iraq.

Dudley are you blind? The only people hanging Rantisi's body out to dry are the Palestinians in the photos. The purpose of displaying these photos is to raise awareness of the type of enemy Israel is facing. Many liberals and leftists like to think the Palestinians are courageous freedom fighters boldly resisting some Nazi occupation. The reality is something else and much more terrible.

A Palestinian mother has been convinced that her child ought to participate in the struggle. That doesn’t mean she doesn’t love her child, only that her love has been twisted and misused by those in power.

I'm sorry but this is twisted. Can you imagine a scenario where your mother would encourage you as a child to put explosives on and blow yourself up? Why do you have such difficulty applying personal responsibility to other races? Isn't that racist? Are we supposed to sit around and say "God, she was a good mother, but she was misled by a few bad guys"? Or how 'bout those SS members -- "Good chaps who got brainwashed by propaganda".

Finally, please excuse barbarians such as myself for being joful that a serial killer of innocent Israelis has gotten his most fervent wish. Anyway, I think I'll go crack open a cold one, as you suggest is the appropriate response to killing an opponent.

By the way, President Bush did the most for the peace process as anyone when he said that the so-called "Right of Return" does not exist. There is no way the Palestinians are going to get the right to swamp Israel proper with their phony skeleton keys around their neck so that they have a Pali state on the WEst Bank and on the other side as well. As soon as they realize it's a no go, they can shed their delusional fantasies that somehow they will destroy Israel.

Unfortunately, the Palis don't have compromise in their vocabulary. Since time immemorial, the Israelis have been willing to compromise for peace. The Pali compromise is that they will state in English that they won't commit terrorism and then state in Arabic, yeah right. Europe's visceral hatred of the Jews is evident in their criticism of Bush for this statement. But it's evidence that pretty much the U.S., Israel and Australia are the only real warriors in the War on Terror.

A couple of points to note. The Isreali's waited several weeks before they could make the hit on Rantisi, because he kept him self surrounded by children. Only two civilians were wounded in the hit. Thats about as good as you can get with current technology. The Palistinians managed to kill 16 civilians in their latest bombing. The media is having real difficulty downplaying that the bad Isreali's are doing everything possible to keep down the casualties, while the good Palistinian's are doing everything possible to enhance casualties, including Rantisi hiding behind children for the last several weeks. Congrats to the Isreali's on a very professional job...The world is better off without this jerk...

#163 Charles

Good lord, the "child" is about as old as I am. I suppose if I ever get into a bar fight I can always claim 'Child Abuse" in my defense...

;-)

Is it just me or is there a white guy in the second picture (the one with the loser with bloody hands...), chech out the face right over his head.

#140 Dudley

Are you deliberately misreading me or is your disconnect with what I'm saying genuine?

Humans are NOT inherently good. I do NOT believe in some sort of born human "goodness." Indeed, goodness is a VIRTUE. Western Civilization with its tenets of humans being end in themselves, not as someone else's means, comes closest to presenting a morality as a code of voluntary interaction based on man qua man. Some may derive their morality from a supernatural source... personally I don't care whether its the Judeo-Christian God, or from the image of the Eternal Phoenix as It Appeared on a Holy Tortilla in El Paso. I give a hell of a lot more weight to your INTENT and your BEHAVIOR then any motivation.

Again... "goodness", that which we define in West Civ as being concerned with the rights of all, is a LEARNED virtue, and like all learned codes, it is one that has to be reaffirmed. If it was "inherent" then a society like Hitler's Nazi Germany would never have arisen. Ditto Islamism, a militant all encompassing anti-individual totalitarian ideology (religion, government, law, procedure). That does not excuse its practioners. Long before the 3rd state of Israel was established, the anti-Jew (and secondary anti-Christian) tenets of Islam were evident. From dhimmitude to the Mufti of Jerusalem teaming up with Hitler for the Final Solution, there is little to excuse the moslem practioners who willingly embrace their Jew-hate.

Hate, is and in itself, is amoral. It is context that makes a behavior or an emotion moral or immoral. Hating evil is moral. Hating an ideology that demands the annihiliation of another people is moral.

Do some here engage in "hate talk". Damned straight. But much of it is in the range of MORAL OUTRAGE, and perfectly acceptable.

Aziz Poonawalla links to Juan Cole, Nathan Newman, Daily Kos, Atrios, Billmon ... Need I say more?

#150 ...

• Taiwan
• Vietnam
• Assam
• Kashmir
• East Srilanka
• Hawaii
• Abhkhazia
• Aotearoa
• Khalistan
• Manipur
• Tamal Nadu
• Aceh Movement
• Southern Sudan
• Spratly Islands
• Republic of Alberta !
• British Columbia
• Irian Jaya
• Inner Mongolia
• Catalonia
• Cyprus
• Katanga
• Tibet
• Diaoyu Islands
• Turkestan
• Falkland Islands
• Ladakh
• Turkish Armenia
• Faroe Islands
• Partit Cccitan [france]
• Brittany
• Savoy
• Gibraltar
• Montenegro
• Mindanao
• Okinawa
• Pitcairn
• Puerto Rico
• Setuvia & Pib'l

Now some of these were a bit bloody (and remain so), but again, none have resorted to suicide bombers (in recent history. Japan's bunch were clearly different)

Great Research Site

GoatGuy

#123 Son of a Pig and a Monkey:

Is there any doubt that Dudley Story is really Double Standard under a new nic?

I'd say it's slightly better than 50%, although the new DS is at least trying to sound a bit less patronizing. Although in the last couple of posts he's been slipping.

#117 mary:
That was an excellent question. I'd be very interested in DS's answer.

So what ever happen to "I am Nathan?"

I know about the house in Beit Jala becasue I was there
and I saw it, and I know the people who live there. I'm trying to find a reference on the web, but you know what reporting's like. Hope to have one for you soon.

Would you live in a Palestinian territory if you had any choice otherwise? And isn't this what you want anyway, all the Palestinians to leave so that you can have the entire land to yourselves ?

As for #125, show me that palestinians hated jews before 1948. At around 1885 the population of Palestine was at around 500,000 people of who about 47,000 were Jews. These Jews were, of course, Palestinians and they lived together in relative peace. Jews and palestinians can live together. Both sides need to acknowldege that they commit terrorism. Until you can admit that you are supporting terrorism against the Palestinans there can be no attempts at a real peace.

but you know what reporting's like

Yes, totally biased against Israel. You're lying.

Start here Aahron (take off the ISM blinders)

1929 Massacre
A long-running dispute between Muslims and Jews over access to the Western Wall in Jerusalem became steadily more violent until, on August 23, 1929, a mob of Arabs inflamed by false rumours that two Arabs had been killed by Jews started a murderous attack on Jews in the Old City. The violence quickly spread to other parts of Palestine. The worst atrocities were in Hebron and Safad, where massacres of Jews occurred. In Hebron, Arab mobs killed 67 Jews and wounded many others. The lone British policeman in the town was overwhelmed and the reinforcements he called for did not arrive for 5 hours (leading to bitter recriminations). Most of the other Jews survived by hiding with their Arab neighbors. The surviving Jews were evacuated from the town. A few dozen families returned in 1931 but the community never reestablished itself and there were no Jews remaining in Hebron by 1936.

And isn't this what you want anyway, all the Palestinians to leave so that you can have the entire land to yourselves ?

No, that's the Palestinians who want to drive all the Jews into the sea. Stop projecting.

Here's a web site Aahron. Read it and weep at how you've been co-opted into basically being a frontman for the Nazis:

[Link: www.hebron.org.il...]

As for #125, show me that palestinians hated jews before 1948.

Do you have any idea what dhimmitude is, Aahron?

If you're Jewish (as your name might suggest), you should know you're on people's history better than the propaganda of the people trying to butcher you.

This is a waste of time. Enjoy ignorance!

RC Neo Jew #32

Where is that a picture of here that you posted?
Just curious.

Mike

#177 Aahron

I know about the house in Beit Jala becasue I was there

ISM for sure.

As for #125, show me that palestinians hated jews before 1948

You mean the fact that the Palestinian leadership supported the Nazis before 1948?

[Link: palestinefacts.org...]

(scroll about half way down).

Or should we look at the ethnic cleansing of Jews all over the Muslim world.

#66 ibrodsky

Indeed. The media is always a target of opportunity. They treat us like children with a learning disability -- and not in a good way like help or therapy.

#184 [Engineer]

ISM for sure.

Yup. Kapo for sure.

At around 1885 the population of Palestine was at around 500,000 people of who about 47,000 were Jews.

More than double the actual figure, according to the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics (appointed by "His Excellency President Yasser Arafat"):

As for the modern history of Palestine especially during the Ottoman ruling period, the population of Palestine decreased and was estimated to 200,000 persons. The decline was a result of deaths, wars and immigration, of Christians particularly, to Latin America and other parts of the World.

PCBS

So the Arab estimate puts the number at 200,000 for the modern history of Palestine under Ottoman rule, where do you get your information? Feel free to provide a link.

As for house demolitions, the fact is, as Hamas has readily admitted, they SAVE LIVES and prevent bombings.

As for hating Jews before 1948, you might want to pick up a history book there buddy. 1929 rings a bell. I've already had this discussion once before, and I'm not planning on having it again, so if you like you can read it again here.

I agree that Airinhead owes zulubaby an apology. He deserves a swirly as well.

(See first definition) The second definition seems to refer to techniques used by those in his profession.

From Worldnet daily's Letters to the Editor written in full with authors name

SATURDAY, APRIL 17, 2004

Virus warning!

A new computer virus has been detected that you may want to take precautions against. This is the Palestinian Virus – a virus that settles in your PC, claims it was there before your PC was built or Bill Gates was born, then demands parts of your hard drive. If you want the virus to leave you and your PC alone, you can try to give the virus the hard drive space it wants, but it will refuse the deal and start killing data on your computer.

Some people have suggested a solution for this virus problem is to give the virus its own PC. As stated above, this virus has been known to refuse the offer. Other nearby PCs won't take the virus either, even if the virus is compatible with the other computers. The virus seems to want nothing less than to take over your entire computer together with the removal and destruction of all your data. Software-based anti-virus solutions have been proposed, but so far only hardware solutions have had any impact.

The only solution we have been able to determine that may work is the physical removal of the virus from your computer. The only problem with this solution is all the other computers will object, and you will be castigated in the media and by the U.N.

Douglas Guynn

155 - regarding "97%"

I pulled that out of my arse. No matter what the polls say about how Palestinians feel, it is my unshakeable belief that most people are good, or have the potential to be good. I had literally scores of friends in college that hailed from the ports of Araby, [including self-professed Palestinians], and after all the hot-around-the-collar rhetoric was vented, in the end the majority of them really just wanted (a) a good job, so that (b) they could marry, have kids, watch them grow, and (c) so that they could retire in some reasonable comfort. Most were completely "behind" the Palestinian uprising, but it seemed more rhetorically than pragmatically.

I have to believe this, or the Palestinian people are doomed. If their population's actual, card-carrying majority is fomenting the terrorism, is revelling in it, then my belief is shattered. But I ask in the spirit of this discussion, were there not tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of Nazi's that after the war reformed, that became not only contrite, but just as avid advocates of the free Germany as they were the Nazi Germany? People may be on the wrong side of the etiology, but I believe they can change.

That is my point. If the Palestinians, with the assistance and assurance of Europe, the United Nations, the Arab League, were to round up their thugs, bandits, tyrants, loons, terrorists and despots, discard them, and be resolved to truely live in peace with sovereign Israel ... then there would be no need for separation fences, for helicopter attacks, for demolished encampments. In fact, they would no longer be "refugees", at all.

I must say -- in stating what I just did, I see the folly of it. It is folly to think that a people who have become increasingly volatile, decreasingly diplomatic, increasingly inclined to terror, destructive rhetoric, and disarray will either suddenly, or through persistent international pressure, compel themselves into a radically more-reasonable mode. It is folly to think this.

They, like the Nazis, or the Fascists of Musolini's Italy, need desparately to fall resoundingly "on their sword". It will take a complete walled-out secession(?), combined with economic collapse, combined with brutal retaliation, combined with laconic international indifference to their methods that will finally give them the catharsis that they know they need. Araflat needs to go, the Hamas and Hezb'allah, the P.A. needs to go. Arafilth may have been bestowed with the Nobel Peace Prize (can you believe that?), but his collusion with the forces-of-conflict have tarnished and mocked that award. He is as pathetic as a bishop caught in a cat-house. As a DEA agent with a back yard planted in opium poppies.

97%. I believe at least that many are ripe for conversion to a "normal life", and an open future. At least that many.

GoatGuy

They look like a bunch of mad dogs. Luckily Sharon has a big heart. Sharon is a teddy bear. Sharon is good for Arabs.

Well, since no one's mentioned it yet, I will tell our opponents once more--

The Palestinians spurned Israel's offer of a state of their own, in 2000.

All they're fighting for is to kill all the Jews (or "drive them into the sea," whichever).

#189 Postal Worker -

I would be happy to take care of Aahron.

I've had Gyppy Tummy all day.

#182 Colt -

I doubt he's Jewish. I think he would be able to spell "Aaron" or "Aharon", rather than use the mangled name that he's using.

#190 JHS

The only solution we have been able to determine that may work is the physical removal of the virus from your computer. The only problem with this solution is all the other computers will object, and you will be castigated in the media and by the U.N.

Douglas Guynn

So true! Good one, BTW!

S*** the other computers.

CHALES #163 (Lizaroid Kingmaster)

The article that Aziz Poonawala is quoting in both cites is the AP article that I ripped to shreds in this string earlier.
See #68 and #73

It is printed word for word in the NY Times and CBS News... He also cites the lie that Hamas responded with the past attempt on Rantisi with a massive suicide bombing. Even though Hamas admitted that bombing was planned months in advance and it could never pull off a suicide bombing in 1 day... obviously...

The entire AP piece is filthy with bias and disgusting anti-Israeli adjectives...

Mike

Ah, Pennies. The next stage of difference. "Their mothers support war." Well, lots of mothers do that in war. "They're different because they're suicide bombers". But wait, the Japanese did that too. So - "they're different because the suicide bombers attack civillian targets."

Please understand - I am not defending what the Palestinian terror organisations do in any way. It is an atrocity and a crime against humanity - all humanity. I was even relieved that a terror leader had been eliminated.

But in some ways a greater crime is to confuse the actions of your enemy with his culture as a whole, or with his religion, and use that as a rationale for saying "they're animals, wipe them all out". No culture is free from blood or hatred. If WW II and the Nuremberg Trials showed us anything, it was the lesson that while cultures themselves may be relatively benign, a canny and opportunistic leader can pull on threads running deep within it - anti-Semitism and Christianity in the case of the Germans - and convince the populace that an aggressive, military, racial solution is the answer. There is no question that had they been able to do so, and were desperate enough, the Japanese would have driven kamikaze planes into civillian centers. Again, it was a distorted misuse of the culture. It doesn't make the Japanese evil, or a mother's love for her son any less.

Now, for those who believe I am denying personal responsibility for their actions - or who have jumped to that conclusion - I have not. One still has to be responsible for one's own actions - again, the Nuremberg trials taught us that. I am trying to, in my own way, pull people back from blanket statements of racial hatred.

Darlene, I was with you all the way up to your third paragraph - thank you for making your points clearer, and agree with you up til that point. However, to characterise Islamism in the way you have is simply wrong.

As a writer once pointed out, Judaism is one of the oldest religions of the world - 5,000 years, perhaps more. Christianity is younger, at 2,0000. Islam is, in one sense, the new kid on the block, at 1,200 years.

It's interesting to note that _all_ of these religions went through their periods of religious persecuction and attempts at annihilation. Their sacred writings make it clear that this is a God-sanctified thing to do. Take a look at the Children's Crusade - for which I am sure the children were sent of by loving mothers to battle the heretics - or the adventures of the Israelities in Exodus. Both Christianity and Judaism have, more or less, overcome their bloody pasts. There are still episodes of religious violence, but they are not, by and large, condoned by states or the religion itself.

Islam isn't there yet. This does not excuse Islam from maturing as a belief system, any more than it excuses the violent excesses of Christianity's past. But it so happens that Islam is going through this transition - a transition that will take hundreds of years, as it did for Judaism and Christianity - during a period of time in which the M-16 and RPG are readily available. So the question isn't "how do we stop Islam?" It's "how do we mature Islam in a way that embraces the modern world without violence?" Again, this is not impossible - if you were at the seige of Jerusalem in 1099 I'm sure it would have been equally impossible to believe that Christianity could advance to the point at which it is now. It is not that Christianity or Islam are inherently evil.

Finally, Darleen, it is easy to justify anything on the basis of moral outrage. Racism is one. A lynching is another. Moral outrage by itself doesn't advance anything, and to excuse its expression through rascist speech is exactly the kind of embrace of hatred you correctly despise.

#194 Frank IBC

I've had Gyppy Tummy all day

Sorry to hear that. Feel free to "vent" on the vermin. Heh heh.

#197 Dudley Storey

If WW II and the Nuremberg Trials showed us anything, it was the lesson that while cultures themselves may be relatively benign, a canny and opportunistic leader can pull on threads running deep within it - anti-Semitism and Christianity in the case of the Germans - and convince the populace that an aggressive, military, racial solution is the answer.

That lesson needs to be adapted to this conflict before it becomes useful. The key thing to remember is that the culture is far from benign, and is the source of the problem.

It is not that Christianity or Islam are inherently evil.

The founder of Islam had sex with children, committed genocide against the Jews in the hejaz, enslaved all non-Muslims under his control, and told his followers that Islam is the final version of Judaism and Christianity. He was a bandit, a murderer and a paedophile.

Please, don't make comparisons between Christianity and Islam as if they're somehow similar.

#119 GoatGuy:

My 2¢ in response-

1. What bothers you about Israel's

superior military advantage, etc.

to the point where you feel the need to make the 'David & Goliath' comparison? The Palis are purposefully targeting and killing a substantial number of completely innocent civilians in a very, very small country. Put it this way: the United States has a population about 50 times that of Israel's current 6.5 million. If a group of terrorists based in Canada whose avowed aim was to destroy the United States and which has at least (the very least) the quasi-sponsorship of Canada's government was killing 200-300 people here, say in New York city, every other week or so, do you think for a minute after the third or fourth time we wouldn't have- to the extent the Canadian government stood by and made small noises about the 'cycle of violence,' and so on- troops in the air and on the ground in our neighbor to the north dealing with the situation? You bet we would, and we'd be damned right to do so. What bothers you...that the Pali's don't have military parity? That's ridiculous. That's like saying we shouldn't treat cancer until the disease has a fair chance to fight back.

2. We

sound so much like a flock of demented vultures, and so on

Well, fine. As a lawyer, I've been called way worse than 'uncouth,' and lived to tell about it. Think about it, though. If the people who don't support appropriate action in dealing with the likes of Rantisi by those who are the target of his campaign of death, the only voices that will be heard are the Saruman-tongued idiots in Departments of State around the world who wouldn't know a pair of balls from a hole in the ground- "Oh, the horror, the horror...all this killing never solves anything" "Violence only begets violence" "Let's all join together and live in peace" -and the left, who ARE THE NEW NAZIS, but just won't 'fess up to it. It's really sort of amusing, as an aside, you know. The left at one point seemed to attract a particular sort of Jewish intellectual. Every person of the Jewish faith I now know (and that includes a number who used to be very much 'of the left' now spend a great deal of their time talking about voting for George Bush and listening to conservative talk radio). Live and learn, I guess... Anyway, we need sites like LGF where ordinary people can express their feelings about the rightness of actions like the killing of Rantisi. Opinion leaders read LGF (Charles could probably identify some through his gee-whiz technology, but is almost certainly too modest). I'll bet you this blog is reviewed daily by more than one person who works in the White House.

3. There should be

no vapid silliness

as it, by inference, mocks

the 97% of the Transjordanian indigenes who are sick and tired of the intifada, yada, yada yada

Oh, how sad and, HOW WRONG. RC neo-Jew in #155 nails it. THERE ARE NO SUCH PEOPLE. Palis are, bar none, apparently about the stupidest and most depraved people on earth. They have nothing but their hatred of Israel, they contribute nothing other than death and misery. Let the few come forward who want to live in peace. They will be treated well and honored(and probably, if history is a guide, not the least by Israel). The rest should be left to a fate no better than Rantisi's. That's what they say they want...

...let oblige. Shoot, GoatGuy, you're the voice of courtesy here. Agree with me, it would only be the right thing to do.

D. Edgren

#183 Mike

It's a hill called Place Fell, overlooking Ullswater in the Lake District

Dudley

I would point you to two books ... Clash of Civilizations by Samual Huntington and Reading Lolita in Tehran by Azar Nafisi.

Also, while both Christianity and Judiasm have had its dark moments, the thing they have had since the beginning is the God/Caesar realization. Islam (and especially Islamism, which is the radical sect) rejects this split. Has since its inception and rather than moving towards a state/religion split, has reemphasized that no state is legitimate that is not Islamic. Even the so-called "we can all live in peace" portions of Islamism are a sham. Dhimmitude is one in which the second class citizenry of Jews & Christians live at the pleasure of their Moslem superiors. And this is even hard on moslems who may have a change of religious heart. Apostasy is an immediate death sentence.

And shall we talk about the role of females in moslem society? Read the second book before you answer.

Using intemperate language is not, of itself, any indicator of the individual sans context. A woman expressing gladness at the execution of the murderer/rapist of her daughter is not the moral equivalent of the family of the murder-rapist spouting ad hominems against the victims family.

Aahron (#177)

As for #125, show me that palestinians hated jews before 1948.

It really doesn't matter if Palestinians hated Jews before 1948.

The indisputable fact is that Arabs and Jews were offered a two-state solution by the United Nations, but Arabs simply refused to go along with the plan.

#204 A. van Hilten

It really doesn't matter if Palestinians hated Jews before 1948.

It does, IMHO. The treatment of Jews by Arabs has not changed radically for centuries, before 1948 or after. It explains a lot.

mary:

You did indeed have an excellent question - how did we defeat fascism, and how do we defeat fundamentalism now?

The answer I think you're hedging on is "total war". There's several things wrong with that statement. Primarily, it's the fact that what we're fighting is not regional and state-based, but global and cell-based. You can't point out several states - Germany, Japan and Italy - and say "that is our enemy". If fundamentalism is a cancer - and I believe that any form of fundamentalism is - then it has metastized throughout the globe. Strike Saudi Arabia, and you get an uprising in the Phillipines. Strike the Phillipines and you get another in Eastern Europe. "Total war" is impossible.

In that regard, I agree with what the Bush administration is doing in the Phillipines and elsewhere - training small, specialised forces to deal with the threats.

That's certainly one part of the solution. Another is to reduce their financing - again, Western goverments have taken steps against terrorist financing, but a better and more direct route would be to reduce reliance on foreign oil - most specifically, Saudi oil. Bleed them dry, and cause the Saudi monarchy to collapse from within (and be prepared to rush in and pick up the pieces when the whole house of cards does fall down).

Work with relief services to provide alternative, secular education for children in Palestine, Afghanisatan and elsewhere. Promote moderate voices within Islam. Create economic agreements that give people work and food - the basis of the MacArthur Plan, you'll recall. Content, busy people are unliley to call for jihad.

It doesn't mean "drop your guard". It doesn't even mean "forgive your enemies". It does mean working for a solution, rather than saying "kill them all".

What's wrong with hate? when the object is the evil that men do?

Hate = extreme anger.

It's a moral duty to hate people like Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Saddam, and Arafat. That's was nerves us for the necessary fight. 'Twas ever thus.

As far as Palestinian loyalties are concerned, they're so far sunk into their cult of rage and self-imposed victimhood, that I doubt we'll see many coming forward for sweet reason's sake:

"Not upon a man from the colonel to the private in a regiment--both inclusive. We may pick up a marshal or two perhaps; but not worth a damn." --Duke of Wellington, on being asked whether he calculated upon any desertion from Bonaparte's army.

As for #125, show me that palestinians hated jews before 1948.

I have many friends that are categorised as "Palestinians"---so what I am about to say is not "prejudice" or "racism".

The Arab shepherds that lived in this area during the ottoman era and before never had a national identity. They were sparsely disperesed throughout the region that is now called Syria, Jordan, Sinai and Saudi Arabia--and were always considered "foreign" by the various rulers of these areas. Because these shepherds did not belong to any distinct and recognised tribe they NEVER ESTABLISHED THEMSELVES AS A "PEOPLE" and were considered inferior to other small tribes such as the Drusim, Samaritans, Beduin etc.

The "Palestinians" are until this day, considered "less than worthy" by all of the recognised Arab tribes (now "Nations"), and not allowed citizenship in their [new, British & French established] countries.

The most respect and freedom the "Palestinian people" have ever received has been here...in my country, Israel.

The indigenous shepherds, and the exiled Arabs that found refuge in this neighbourhood in the 20th century, have been used as expendable cannon-foder by the Arab-League and the United Nations since the establishment of the Jewish State (which is just as old as the neighbouring "Arab" states---most being established after WW2).

As for your mis-observation " show me that palestinians hated jews before 1948", I'll just refer you to the film "Lawrence of Arabia"---and add that most "Pals" did not hate "Jews" before Oslo brought the Tunisian Gangsters known as the PLO to our land.

The Palestinians are suffering greatly, and deserve to be liberated. Bombing the Muqata, and eliminating the 60-100 thousand "Tunisians" under Arafat's command would bring peace and freedom to the majority of "Palestinians".

So...F.O.

rachel corrie pancakes, followed by rantisi and yassin pizza. Tasty menu if you ask me!!

Anyway, it was nice of him to publically announce that he was the successor to yassin. Saves guessing which one to kill next!!

You're right, Colt.

But our friend Aaaahron here really doesn't give a rat's ass about violence against Jews, he just cares about those poor Palestinians. That's fine with me.

He should remember, though, that even if there had been no Arab violence prior to 1948 it's all the Palestinians' fault if they still don't
have a state of their own, as it was provided for under the original
UN-backed partition plan.

#210 A. van Hilten

Fair enough :-)

It's now just past 3 in the morning on the coast of Israel.
Unusually, the PLO Television channel is still on-air.

See what all the fuss is about "Online"...;

[Link: www.psctv.com:8080...]

These folks should get some sleep! Don't they know that there is a funeral and demonstration tomorrow???

.colt - Sorry, I can't let this go by unchallenged.

> The founder of Islam had sex with children, committed genocide against the Jews in the hejaz, enslaved all non-Muslims under his control, and told his followers that Islam is the final version of Judaism and Christianity. He was a bandit, a murderer and a paedophile.

First - references, please.

And by comparison - if you believe the Bible, a significant number of their major characters had sex with their children; God encouraged the Jews to commit genocide and enslave all other races; laws were made to allow the execution of women and men under circumstances we'd see as barbarous today; and, of course, "you shall have no Gods before me".

This could go on all day. I don't wish to get into a theological discussion of the basis of religions, or religious comparison. My point was that religions were born in blood, and mature past it. You could make the same criticism of Christianty in the 11th century - where, relatively speaking, Islam is today.

Darleen - thank you for your recommendations. However, all the points you have raised in regards to Islam today could again be applied to Christianity from the 8th to 16th centuries - a state-run religion that rejected all other forms of society as heretical, in which atheists and Jews were tortured, banished, and publically executed, and where women were property.

It took the Enlightenment to make Christianity turn the corner. The Muslim world needs something similar.

@206

""Total war" is impossible."

I take it you have never heard of WWII. Total global war.
If not you might try
[Link: www.questia.com...]

www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/timeline/ww2time.ht m

..to give you a sense of past reality, when the entire globe was involved in total war .

#201 - D. Edgren (the Merciless Infidel)

Thanks for noticing - that I am trying to be the voice of courtesy here. I generally agree that your sentiments are founded clear principle, sounding an opinion that "holds water". I think you might have missed my followup post above (#191). In any case...

[1] superior military advantage.

Agree completely, with regard to the action that the United States would (and should) take were there to be 200-300 people in the U.S. killed by terroristic Candians. Your point is well made. Parenthetically I feel that Israel often is too soft, not hitting as hard as they should be.

[2] of vultures

My point was to show that there is a ghoulish element here, that I find distasteful. Freedom of speech, it is, but it in fact also provides way too much fodder for the anti-LGFers. We really gotta start exceeding our foes by out-performing on basic civility. I think Charles recent citing of anti-LGF sites and so on, to be tactically a mistake. Ignore them, as they crave dialog.

[3] silliness, mocking palestinians

I think that there's an almost childish element at play here at LGF, delighted to see their own 'posts of defiance / celebration / excess' in the name of an assassination. Mind you - I'm not in any way deflating the importance of the act. I'm just uncomfortable hearing people say, "just opened up a 1998 Chateau Montalena, that I was saving for a special occasion" or "I'm breaking my Aitkins diet, and making cookies. Want some?", or, "How about some of that special tequila, honey?" or "Send pizza.whatever.org to the IDF troops!" or "I'm on my fourth beer, lets have more".

___

I would never want to be guilty of advocating "PC" censoring, but I think a little civil 'self censorship' could go a long way. Unreformed idealist, that's me.

GoatGuy

#213 Dudley Storey

First - references, please.

The Koran and the Hadith...

You could make the same criticism of Christianty in the 11th century - where, relatively speaking, Islam is today.

Islam has been in the 7th century, since the 7th century. Nothing about Islam has changed.

Your facts are wrong, but I'll deal with the most offensive, not to mention I've never seen a name spelt like that. "And isn't this what you want anyway, all the Palestinians to leave so that you can have the entire land to yourselves ?" No.

Are your comments meant to be taken as objection to killing a terrorist?

#217 is for Aahron.

"However, all the points you have raised in regards to Islam today could again be applied to Christianity from the 8th to 16th centuries"

Nuuu???

That little calendar on the corner of this 'puter claims that this is the 21st Century. Do you suggest we return to the Middle Ages??? OR should we grat the Muslims a thousand years of barbarism and terror to "get their act togther", before we dare criticise them, or defend our selves???

merav #77

hoo lo yehoodi...bevakashah

Palestinian Mardi Gras - Show me your tits.

#212 Tamar

These folks should get some sleep! Don't they know that there is a funeral and demonstration tomorrow???

What time will it be held - roughly?

Dudley Storey #213

Roman Catholicism is NOT Christianity... and Islam and Christianity are night and day as taught by Jesus and Muhammad.

Jesus said love your enemies and Muhammad said slay them where you find them.

The problem with Islam is that is evil at its core and fundamental Islam is the TRUE Islam. While they try to whitewash it as the religion of peace that is a lie and it is a religion of hate and death. Do a fruit check and the evidence is worldwide.

Look at what Islam had done for its followers? Being rooted in the 7th century theocracy has brought the Middle East nowhere but at the bottom world in production and prosperity. All around the world Muslims are fighting Jihad against others... why can't they get along with their neighbors?

#137

Mal, oui. Vitesse aussi.

#172 Darleen

That sounds about right. If you put it in that context, I'm trying to but can't disagree.

Colt---

The rampage usually begins around noon our time!
Any earlier and the press corps may not be in place, and the networks could miss some of the threats and speeches!

Be well Colt...

Tamar

"Rantisi sleeps with the Gefilte fishes."

Mr. Simon, you crack me up.

#225 Tamar

Thanks. I'm looking forward to watching it.

Take care :-)

#213 Dudley Storey

So you claim to know what Palestinian mothers think when they send their sons to die, but haven't ever read the Holy Qur'an... Interesting.

Are you channeling Richard Clarke?

Our friend Aarhon might try googling the name of Arafat's hero and relative, Hajj Amin al-Husseini and his virulent campaign against the Jews, beginning with the so-called "Bloody Passover" of 1920 and various other campaigns of the 20s and 30s, closely aligned with Hitler, a confident and advisor of Adolph Eichman, and received and sheltered by Egypt as a national hero when Nazi Germany fell.

This NRO Article summarizes some of the early Arab "peaceful tolerance" of Jews through the 20s and 30s.

#132 Zulubaby

My sentiments exactly...geeez...I been drinking much sparkling wine and eating lotsa gandies but I still wanna join you in telling him/her to F@CK OFF too
...

Tsk. Colt, you can do better than that. If you really want to stick to your guns here, and compare religions, I'll need chapter and verse. Again, I don't wish to debate religions, but you seem to be missing my point.

Secondly, you need (in my humble opinion) to study a little more history. Know where algebra was invented? The major translators (and thus their preservation during the dark ages) of most classical works? Who the developers of the astrolobe and observatory? The history of Muslim Spain, from the 7th to 14th centuries?

Again, Islam is maturing. And in some cases, it has backslid into fundamentalism. But to say that "nothing has changed" about it is an outright falsehood.

Quark - I think you might be mis-reading what I said. I was making a direct comparison to WWII and total global war and showing why it isn't possible against fundamentalism today.

Finally, Darleen - while I basically agree with what you've said in your last paragraph, I'd hope you would agree that there's a difference between "I'm glad that my daughter's murderer has been executed" and "We strung that n*gger up good! Let's go round us up some more!" What do you think you've seen more of in this thread?

But in some ways a greater crime is to confuse the actions of your enemy with his culture as a whole, or with his religion, and use that as a rationale for saying "they're animals, wipe them all out".

I think you're constructing a straw man here. Most posters on this site don't hate Palestinians. Israelis don't hate Palestinians.

What they hate is the behavior of the Palestinians. They hate that the culture, as a whole, has abandoned reason for collective madness. In the same manner, I can hate Naziism without hating Germans. All of this is immaterial to the simple fact, that in order to combat Naziism, it was necessary to kill many Germans.

We have here an example of evil in it's relative equvocation...there is no wrong or right just misunderstanding.
Dudley Storey is another of those who visit LGF with the same cut and paste amorality that we've been visited with redundantly. The only thing that is different is the name of the poster.

#213 Dudley

I have not forgotten Christianity's own pre-enlightenment existence. However, I will point out again, that at Christendom's core belief, indeed, in Jesus Christ's own words

Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's

There is not one analogous passage from Mohammed. So "enlightenment" as we in Christendom understand it doesn't even have that kernal in Islam to discover and build upon. That is just another reason that the modern resurgence of Islam has taken the radical road of political ideology and jihadism.

Western Civ must respond NOT by trying to accomodate or understand Islamism, but challenging it, even forcefully and even unto making war upon them, to give up its ambitions towards theocracies and enslavement of its citizens. To do less is to condemn ourselves.

#231 Dudley Storey

If you really want to stick to your guns here, and compare religions, I'll need chapter and verse. Again, I don't wish to debate religions, but you seem to be missing my point.

I can provide them (with a little work), but it's late. You can trust me, but I understand that that's not always a safe assumption to make on the internet.

Secondly, you need (in my humble opinion) to study a little more history. Know where algebra was invented?

Yes, India.

The major translators (and thus their preservation during the dark ages) of most classical works?

The Muslims. Though holding on to classical works is no substitute for creating them.

Who the developers of the astrolobe and observatory?

From the context, I'd guess the Muslims.

The history of Muslim Spain, from the 7th to 14th centuries?

Yes, conquest and dhimmitude. Theocratic slavery isn't my idea of enlightenment.

Again, Islam is maturing. And in some cases, it has backslid into fundamentalism. But to say that "nothing has changed" about it is an outright falsehood.

If I am correct about Mohammed, the Prophet who speaks for Allah and speaks of the final version of the true religion of the one true 'god', what hope can there be? If a Muslims slurs Mohammed or his deeds or words, he is an apostate and condemned to death under Islamic law.

#233 cathy

Roman Catholicism is NOT Christianity

Yes I forgot we're the masons.

Cathy:

You raise an interesting point - until Luther, Christianity as practiced in the West _was_ indistinguishable from Roman Catholicism. I'm afraid your argument doesn't hold much water there.

Again, comparing Islam to where Christianity is now simply isn't valid. I've given several solutions to develop Islam in a more secular and democratic direction - what are yours?

@231 Dudley Storey

"Quark - I think you might be mis-reading what I said. I was making a direct comparison to WWII and total global war and showing why it isn't possible against fundamentalism today."

Your direct quote in a complete sentence standing on its own, was total war is impossible.

From the round abouts that you are dancing I can safely make the assumption you are not but another VFI.

You really either need to make a decision that you will honestly debate on this thread,or you need to leave. Otherwise what I've been posting is true, you are a TROLL>

Dudley Storey:

Know where algebra was invented? The major translators (and thus their preservation during the dark ages) of most classical works? Who the developers of the astrolobe and observatory? The history of Muslim Spain, from the 7th to 14th centuries?

Again, Islam is maturing. And in some cases, it has backslid into fundamentalism. But to say that "nothing has changed" about it is an outright falsehood.

Only problem with your patronizing history lesson is that it leads us nowhere. Islam was clearly more tolerant vis-a-vis Christian societies back in the Middle Ages than it is today. If anything, we're looking at a regressive trend in modern Islamic doctrine.

Once again:The History and Current Events related to the religion of peace™

Hindu Kush means Hindu Slaughter

[Link: www.hindunet.org...]

Negationism and the Muslim Conquests

[Link: www.geocities.com...]

Chronology of Terrorist Attacks in Israel

[Link: www.johnstonsarchive.net...]

Documenting the Persecution of Christians in the Islamic World

[Link: www.domini.org...]

#231 Dudley

Secondly, you need (in my humble opinion) to study a little more history. Know where algebra was invented?

So what? The same culture that gave us Beethoven and Mozart gave us Auschwitz and Dachau. Algrebra does not give a pass to suicide bombers.

Why would you even attempt to argue such?

For when KAPO Aahron is hijacked to Entebbe, on his way to save some penguins...

``please mister muslim terrorist ,I know your doing a seleksia and I may be Jewish but I am a member of the ISM and I am a self hating Jew spare me pleasseee``

90 mins later...

``thank G-D the IDF saved me...funny how they never cared I was an ISM terrorist enabler...shemai yisrael...``

#124 Aahron

I hope we can keep you around in a little cage to show all the kids what not to grow up to be.

Using "without trial" as an argument for the Palestinians is -- perhaps -- the greatest hypocrisy I've ever seen. There have been some great hypocrisys, I'll admit. Moreover, there are probably trillions I've never borne witness to. But, yours is right up there.

*gold star*

#79 Aahron

>Israel stops killing the children of palestine with its military gunships, its tanks, and its child soldiers.

Excuse me for coming into this thread so late, but. . .

Since when does Israel use child soldiers?

@237 VFI

"Again, comparing Islam to where Christianity is now simply isn't valid. I've given several solutions to develop Islam in a more secular and democratic direction - what are yours?"

OMG! Your arrogance is beyond the pale.
You haven't given any solutions to anything other than to tsk tsk when ask a direct question.

You have proven beyond a shadow of doubt you need to be put on the scrollby list.

Band of Brothers on History Channel. Sure, I'll watch it a whatever time.

Those maps might come in handy someone should record it.

#237 Dudley???

I've given several solutions to develop Islam in a more secular and democratic direction -

Where was that? I've seen nothing from you but what qualifies as apologia.

#237 VFI

You plot and you plan.

Colt:

Thank you for your responses. For your information:

> Know where alegra was invented?

> Yes, India.

Incorrect. If we're going to go back to sources, it was the Babylonians - but the Muslim world gave it its name, and its greatest contributions outside of modern times.

> The history of Muslim Spain, from the 7th to 14th centuries?

> Yes, conquest and dhimmitude. Theocratic slavery isn't my idea of enlightenment.

Wrong. Colt, stop pulling assumptions from your entrenched ideas and actually research, please. For 700 years Muslim Spain was a land where Muslims, Jews and Christians co-existed in relative peace and harmony. Yes, there were periods of discord, repression, and violence - over half a millenium I'd expect some. But overall Spain was a beacon of civillisation - and it existed under Muslim rule.

And a heads up, Colt - every major nation in the West at that time was theocratic. If you're going to class one as "slavery" (which it wasn't) you'd have to do the same for the rest.

I'd also point out that Judaism has similar capital punishment to Islam - stoning a woman to death for being raped, for example - yet has been able to move past it. Again, Judaism has taken 5000 years (give or take a millenium) to do so.

Darleen, Quark:

I apoligise for not referencing the post - it was #206.

The simplest way to solve this conflict is to switch from oil to run vehicles, to LPG gas.

Gas is cheaper and mostly cleaner. Its easily made, and is widely used around the world.

The irony is, that no American governemnt could do this, due to financial obligations, special interests etc.

Although this is the most important thing that we could do to funding to Islamic terrorism.

All Bush has to do, to stop OBL and friends, is reduce tax on low milliage vehicles, reduce tax on LPG fuel, and raise tax on vehicles which consume large amounts of petrol.

Within 10 years, you'd see the world's no.1 oil consumer use less oil, and deprive many Islamic states of their revenue.

That would be the quickest, simplest, cheapest and easiest way to fight terrorism.

It won't happen, with Bush being an oil man, and the way American politics works.. but it would solve much of the problem.

Dudley Storey,

"Judaism has taken 5000 years (give or take a millenium) to do so. "

Come off it pal.

Incorrect. If we're going to go back to sources, it was the Babylonians - but the Muslim world gave it its name, and its greatest contributions outside of modern times.

So the Muslims didn't invent it, but... named it. Right. Way to go.

Wrong. Colt, stop pulling assumptions from your entrenched ideas and actually research, please. For 700 years Muslim Spain was a land where Muslims, Jews and Christians co-existed in relative peace and harmony. Yes, there were periods of discord, repression, and violence - over half a millenium I'd expect some. But overall Spain was a beacon of civillisation - and it existed under Muslim rule.

Bullshit! Robert Spencer quotes sources extensively, showing that dhimmitude flourished in Moorish Spain, and the period was punctuated with rampant slaughter when the dhimmis over-stepped their station.

Beacon of civilisation? Bollocks. It was shit, the only thing it had going for it was that everywhere else in Europe was worse.

Before we go any further: do you know what dhimmitude is? If so, how can you calmly tell me that a country that obeys the dhimma is "a beacon" of anything other than religious oppression?

And a heads up, Colt - every major nation in the West at that time was theocratic. If you're going to class one as "slavery" (which it wasn't) you'd have to do the same for the rest.

I've no problem with that. Europe was a shithole, and only a fool would think otherwise.

I'd also point out that Judaism has similar capital punishment to Islam - stoning a woman to death for being raped, for example - yet has been able to move past it. Again, Judaism has taken 5000 years (give or take a millenium) to do so.

Any idea why they moved past that? And you're avoiding the fact that the central figure in Islam committed heinous crimes with the authority of Allah. How does one go about reforming that? The Sunna is clear: if you slander the Prophet's words or deeds, you are an apostate and will be sentenced to death.

202 RC Neo Jew

What country do you live in?
Israel?
US (which state)
Australia
European Country?

I don't have a clue?

If its Israel which part?

#215 GoatGuy

I have now read #191.

As we appear to be in agreement on 215[1], I'll move on to

215[2]: I don't think the element here is 'ghoulish.' Maybe a little prone to 'and yo' momma, too' excess. Maybe a little neglectful in minding the hyperbole meter (I wouldn't know anything about that). Maybe a little too much of the 'middle of the road' mentality and ideology to comprehend, as Neil Young once said, that, having seen the middle of the road, he concluded things were way more interesting in the gutter.

My guess is that the average LGFer wants to bake bread, go to work, read good books, live in a nice house, have sex, see his and her children do great things, plant a garden, go to the beach, pet the dog, [and so on, and so on] and

BE LEFT THE HELL ALONE BY THE PALIS/'SLIMS/EVERYONE ELSE WHO WANTS US DEAD...BECAUSE WE'RE US.

If they react somewhat exuberantly or out of ordinary solemn character when a fuckwit like Rantisi meets a well-deserved death from a missile of which WE ALL WISH WE COULD HAVE PUSHED THE 'FIRE' BUTTON,

well, that's just the way it goes.

What 'fodder,' BTW, does it provide? Proof that LGFers have valid feelings? Proof that LGFers are legitimately angry and upset? Proof that LGFers want action from their governments to protect them and deal with a threat that is perceived to be extraordinarily dangerous-action that is all to frequently never forthcoming? I see no threat to free speech (in the U.S. anyway, I can't speak for the laws of other countries) here. Any LLL blog, on any day, has real fodder on it.

The constant thread running through complaints about LGF is that somehow many of the people who post there advocate genocide. Nothing could be further from the truth. Genocide is the killing of a particular people simply because they are the sort of people they are. Hitler commited genocide against the Jews because they were Jews. The National Socialist aryans were the 'Master Race.' Jews were 'Untermenschen.' No more was needed- Jews never attacked Hitler or his country. They were no threat to Germany. LGFers aren't advocating 'killing' or 'dealing with' or 'nuking' anyone or any country that hasn't demonstrated itself or themselves to be be such a legitimate threat. Cases in point- we all know what the Palestineans are. We all know what the Iranians are doing. We all know what country the September 11 terrorists came from and about the state-sponsored deviant mindset that creates the conditions for many, many more to follow. We all know what religion prays, on a daily basis, for our destruction and death. These folks, GG, have been identified (and I would agree rightly so) by LGFers as 'the enemy.' They want us to die. I think the average LGFer would much rather see them die first, so he or she can go on about business. This isn't genocide, it's a rational response.

215[3]: I think your post in 191 undermines this point substantially. OK, I get that you believe that the basic human nature of these people is fundamentally good, even in the light of little (damn little!) or no evidence to the contrary. Well, it is human nature too to make a public display of ones' own feelings and thoughts on matters believed to be of major importance when others, and in this case the particular people who are perceived as centrally involved, just don't get it. 'Hey, you Palestinian 97% fuckwits who don't seem to be bothered by your sons and daughters being used by your leaders as human bombs to kill your neighbors, WE JUST BLEW UP ONE OF THOSE SHITWAD LEADERS, AND I'M GOING TO HAVE A NICE GLASS OF WINE TO CELEBRATE!' That's who the message is really aimed at, GoatGuy. It's not childish- it's perfectly rational human behavior. If it smacks of the dynamics of the sandbox to you, let us know how else, in your more courteous world, you would expect LGFers to get their message across.

And where do I stand? I'm with the person who made the 'pizza for IDF' post. Ground beef, lots of sauce- just keep those Hellfires comin', guys (and gals, too, from what I understand).

D. Edgren

I'll reply to this tomorrow, Dudley.

G'night, all.

Dudley Storey:

For 700 years Muslim Spain was a land where Muslims, Jews and Christians co-existed in relative peace and harmony. Yes, there were periods of discord, repression, and violence - over half a millenium I'd expect some. But overall Spain was a beacon of civillisation - and it existed under Muslim rule.

Hey, Dudley, can you please tell us how the fact that enlightened Al
Andalus was "a beacon of civillisation" can compare with the actions
of savages at Fallujah and Gaza?

And remember, it's regression time for Da Brothers at Makkah and Medina. Whether you care to admit it or not.

EARLIER TODAY -
SUICIDE BOMBING AT EREZ INDUSTRIAL ZONE
The Industrial Zone was built by Israel to employ thousands Of Gazan Palestinians.
Hamas and Fatah Claim Immediate Credit!
PICTURES
Bloodied Israeli Guard carried Away in Suicide Bombing
[Link: story.news.yahoo.com...]
Israeli Version of 'Crowd Swarming'
[Link: story.news.yahoo.com...]

LATER TODAY -
Hamas Leader RANTISI is ASSASSINATED in Israeli Targeted Strike
AUDIO Rantisi Eliminated Today (A Good Listen)
[Link: queen-fip.com...]

Car Swarming and Dipping Your Hands in the Blood
[Link: story.news.yahoo.com...]
[Link: story.news.yahoo.com...]

Grab A Boot
[Link: story.news.yahoo.com...]

PALI CHILDREN -
Swarm Car and Take Souveniers
[Link: editorial.gettyimages.com...]
[Link: story.news.yahoo.com...]
[Link: editorial.gettyimages.com...]
Children Trained for Peace and Pride
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

MASSIVE CROWDS GATHER AND CHEER (Looks Like Nazi Germany)
[Link: story.news.yahoo.com...]
[Link: story.news.yahoo.com...]
[Link: story.news.yahoo.com...]
[Link: story.news.yahoo.com...]

#237 Dudley Storey

Again, comparing Islam to where Christianity is now simply isn't valid. I've given several solutions to develop Islam in a more secular and democratic direction

The imposition of the western concept of secularism is one of the primary drivers of the Islamists rejection of the west and democracy and hence the global terrorist violence. The word Islam is best translated into english as submission and an Islamic society is one in which all things from the personal to governmental are done according to the will of Allah, in otherwords all is in submission to Allah. The Islamic enlightment will not come by impostion of western secularism on Islamic society but by a redefinition of what constitutes an Islamic society derived from Islamic theology. A discussion you are not prepared to have as you confuse the history of religions with theology of religions.

#251 Terry

The simplest way to solve this conflict is to switch from oil to run vehicles, to LPG gas.

No, it would not. We are already importing LPG because we don't have enough gas.

I predict we have in the makings of another banning.
I find the twisted, finitely warped postings of DS [VFI] to be
noxious. He is as satan slithering through truths and telling them in a mutilated form.
Just another troll hijacking threads.

Colt (#187)

Yup. Kapo for sure.

That POS is not a Jew, trust me.

Dudley Storey, please.

1. Algebra was invented in India. Babylonians were neither Muslim nor Arab.

2. Any comparision of Medieval Europe to the Muslim world is ridiculous. I wached a very great movie by an Afghan director called Osama last night so I'm freshly brainwashed. Never ever ever ever did Europe treated women with the kind of cruelty you see in the Muslim world. Medieval women were actually quite powerful.

quark2 (#262)

Agreed, and very well stated.

PIZZA SWARM!!!

Incorrect. If we're going to go back to sources, it was the Babylonians - but the Muslim world gave it its name, and its greatest contributions outside of modern times.

OK fine. Algebra was invented by the Babylonians. This proves exactly what? Name something that the Muslim world has contributed to human progress since then. The question here is one of scale. One guy is an accomplished doctor and another guy got an A+ on his spelling homework in 4th grade but is now a crackhead. Both men are to be equally respected, in your view, since they both can name an accomplishment.

Speaking of doctors,
here is a very funny letter to some jackass who wants to boycott Israel.

Dudley Storey

FACT "The long-overdue execution of the Pediatrician of Death, Abdel Aziz Rantisi,

If as you have stated Palestinian mothers have allowed their children to be sacrificed because of the hateful words of this man then his death should be celebrated by all men.

Just wanted to sing a round: ole ole, ole ole, feeling hot, hot hot!

The Israeli media is reporting that Hamas has decided that the new leader will not be named.

It's gonna be a secret!

Globular Custard (#267)

That letter is classic, I love it!

As bizarrely inhuman as the swarm appears, it is well to remember that these are not free people. Like the women voting for Saddam Hussein in his last election, who voted in blood and proudly raised their bloody fingers for the cameras -- their actions, even sincere and dangerous, reflect nothing but a police state at work.

#271 corodon

these are not free people

I can't recall reading anywhere that the suicide bombers acted under duress, or that other terrorists were forced into killing innocent people. If you have information to the contrary, please do share and post a few links.

#271 corodon

I'm sorry, but...

Oh, bullshit!

'These are not free people' is the lamest sort of justification for unjustifiable acts I think I have ever heard. People in Singapore aren't free people, either. But they are certainly well behaved.

It reminds me of seeing Appalachia for the first time when I went off to college in the 1970s. I drove across West Virginia with a local friend and asked him "Why do these people have all that junk in their yards?" He responded, "Well, they're poor."

Thirty years later, I've been pretty much all around the world. I've been to countries where pretty much everyone is 'poor' (and probably where the people whose yards I was appalled by would have been deemed well-to-do) and have rarely encountered the same situation. So I've concluded 'poor' doesn't have anything to do with living like a slob.

I don't think being 'not free' has anything to do with car swarming or wanting to blow everyone else up either. I think it has everything to do with being a whack-job asshole living in a culture the sole raison d'etre of which is to kill the next door neighbors.

D. Edgren