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Nazimedia: Attack US Targets

Sat, May 8, 2004 at 8:55:44 pm PDT

The San Francisco branch of Indymedia advocates violent attacks against “military targets” in the United States, in a post that was moved by the Indymedia overlords to their “hidden” area, but remains visible with a few clicks: Military Targets in the USA must be Attacked. (Hat tip: Rayra.)

UPDATE: The incriminating page has now been removed completely, after the Morlocks noticed referrals from LGF.

UPDATE: This is the text of the deleted Indymedia post:

Military Targets in the USA must be Attacked
by al-masakin — Thursday, May. 06, 2004 at 7:13 PM

The torture of Muslim prisoners in Iraq in the “rape rooms” at the American Abu Ghraib prison confirms that the so-called American war on terror is really a war on Islam. George Bush has created a global gulag network of extra-legal and secret US prisons with thousands of inmates. This Gulag stretches from Afghanistan to Iraq, to Guantanamo and secret CIA prisons around the world. This Gulag exclusively holds Muslim prisoners.

In light of these revelations, Al-Masakin would like to take this opportunity to remind the American Muslim Mujahedin, and our allies in the revolutionary and anti-Imperialist left, that ROTC buildings, armed service recruiting centers, individual military personnel, and police officers are “military targets”. These institutions must be violently and covertly attacked.

In fact, there are thousands of unarmed military targets walking around all over the United States. Outraged American citizens and American Muslims should have little difficulty making violent contact with recruits, cadets, marines, etc.

We strongly recommend that such contact be made with a very sharp knife, pepper spray, brass knuckles, baseball bats, firearms, explosives, or the bumper of a full sized automobile, truck or SUV.

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291 comments

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1 Paladin  Sat, May 8, 2004 6:57:39pm

And they get upset when we question their patriotism!

2 John Schneider  Sat, May 8, 2004 7:00:45pm

Charles,

Can I assume this has already been reported to the proper authorities?

3 Ms. Andi  Sat, May 8, 2004 7:01:14pm

If you want to leave a comment, I suggest that you cut paste the URL first. They always delete comments links from LGF.

4 hershel  Sat, May 8, 2004 7:01:44pm

"Treason against the United States shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort."

- Article III, Section 3 of the US Constitution

We have a winner!

5 kimberly  Sat, May 8, 2004 7:02:49pm

I refuse to click over and give them the traffic.

My wish is that one day the Nazimedia crowd gets a taste of what a real crushing of "dissent" is, along with a clear explanation of just when "dissent" becomes treason.

6 I Hate Islam  Sat, May 8, 2004 7:13:49pm

Don't get me wrong. I hate Indymedia too. But I do wonder if we would have ever known about this article had it not been posted there. I almost would rather have them around to keep an eye on their madness. Talk about flies to shit.

7 Bubbaman  Sat, May 8, 2004 7:13:54pm

Hopefully, the feds are on this - but my impression is that they fail to take action.

8 Spiny Norman  Sat, May 8, 2004 7:15:22pm

Is the SF Idiotmedia civil war still going on? The slap-fest these kids were having was a hoot.

My comment hasn't appeared yet (if it ever does), but here it is:

9 Rayra[deleted]  Sat, May 8, 2004 7:15:28pm
10 Spiny Norman  Sat, May 8, 2004 7:17:08pm

Ah hell, what happened there?

11 NukeChild  Sat, May 8, 2004 7:17:56pm

I love how they use one incident to justify a blanket derogatory generalization; it is the lazy logic of the racist.

12 My2Cents  Sat, May 8, 2004 7:18:22pm

For what it is worth, I just went to [Link: tips.fbi.gov...] and submitted this information to the FBI.

I encourage all of you, my fellow patriots, to do likewise when you discover information like this.

I don't know if they really read and take seriously these tips. But I have a hunch (though I could be wrong) that they take an issue a little more seriously, if every time something like this occurs, they receive a boatload of tips about it. So my philosophy is to err on the side of telling them repeatedly, rather than assume someone else has already submitted the information.

And, as always... thats my 2 cents!

13 Q  Sat, May 8, 2004 7:18:26pm
"our" homeland.

Indeed.

14 Beagle Matamoros  Sat, May 8, 2004 7:21:55pm

Is there a HARM missile for Internet sites?

15 scootran  Sat, May 8, 2004 7:26:13pm

Check out the address in the Document posted at Indybay:

[Link: majdur.htmlplanet.com...]

Bunch of jihad links.

16 Inside  Sat, May 8, 2004 7:34:22pm

LOL...apparently indymedia.org issues their own SSL certificates. Guess they don't trust RSA. Whoever uploaded this document had to have administrative access to the site and it is encrypted, therefore, the site owners actively participated in putting this crap there. Methinks somebody is gonna be spending some quality time with a "special agent".

17 Yishai  Sat, May 8, 2004 7:37:42pm

Do you all want to go and post some "comments"? I have.

(A changing IP address is recommended, and Ms. Andi is right, copy the link in a browser)

18 Bubbaman  Sat, May 8, 2004 7:37:56pm

Actually, there's a link at the bottom of the PDF to this bizzare site. The best I can trace this site is back to the host htmlplanet.com:

Organisation Name.... About, Inc
Organisation Address. 1253 N. Research Way
Organisation Address. Suite Q-2500
Organisation Address. Orem
Organisation Address. 84097
Organisation Address. UT
Organisation Address. UNITED STATES

Admin Email.......... hostmaster@northsky.com
Admin Phone.......... 801-437-6000

Can anyone do better?

19 nicfit  Sat, May 8, 2004 7:38:12pm

My2Cents--

Thanks for the link.

I've officially turned myself into an informant... I know I should feel some guilt for "ratting"... but in this case... not so much.

20 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, May 8, 2004 7:40:59pm

Indymedia is a foe for another day. Kill the jihad first.

21 Bigsmoke  Sat, May 8, 2004 7:43:40pm

Prosecute him.

22 Bubbaman  Sat, May 8, 2004 7:47:56pm

Could be wrong but this appears to be his location:

TARGET: 208.185.127.165
NAME: ABOVENET-6
NUMBER: 208.184.0.0 - 208.185.255.255
CITY: SAN JOSE
STATE: CALIFORNIA

23 urthshu  Sat, May 8, 2004 7:48:27pm

OT
CAIR calls US the "New Saddam"

Indymediocretin's are slime. Its a public toilet. Pfft!

24 Inside  Sat, May 8, 2004 7:49:21pm

#18 Bubbaman

They seem to be hosted by a free site provider called directNIC. Whois shows this:

Domain Name: FREESERVERS.COM
Registrar: INTERCOSMOS MEDIA GROUP, INC. D/B/A DIRECTNIC.COM
Whois Server: whois.directnic.com
Referral URL: [Link: www.directnic.com...]
Name Server: NS1.FREESERVERS.COM
Name Server: NS2.FREESERVERS.COM
Status: ACTIVE
Updated Date: 23-mar-2004
Creation Date: 21-may-1998
Expiration Date: 20-may-2006

Domain Name: DIRECTNIC.COM
Registrar: INTERCOSMOS MEDIA GROUP, INC. D/B/A DIRECTNIC.COM
Whois Server: whois.directnic.com
Referral URL: [Link: www.directnic.com...]
Name Server: NS0.DIRECTNIC.COM
Name Server: NS1.DIRECTNIC.COM
Status: REGISTRAR-LOCK
Updated Date: 21-jan-2003
Creation Date: 09-feb-2000
Expiration Date: 09-feb-2010

No contact information on the site but a tracert indicates the site is being hosted in jolly ole GBR.

25 California Observer  Sat, May 8, 2004 7:49:34pm

Unbelievable...

26 Bubbaman  Sat, May 8, 2004 7:53:30pm

#24 Inside - who are you referring to? [Link: majdur.htmlplanet.com...] traces back to what I listed.

27 Abu Khadija  Sat, May 8, 2004 7:55:28pm

If you all could leave that site alone till, say, Monday afternoon, it would be helpful. All the good Feds have the weekend off.

As for the site, it's a subdomain. htmlplanet.com is a freeservers.com domain. They will be more than happy to remove the site.

28 Yishai  Sat, May 8, 2004 7:56:08pm

The information given by #18 Bubbaman belongs to Global Servers, you guessed it, a web hosting company.
The Domain of the e-mail address linked to the site, northsky, forwards you to http://www.communityarchitect.com/.

29 Bubbaman  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:00:27pm

Hmm...

The plot thickens - on the referred website is a link to Al-Masakin (whatever that is) and gives a phone number 520-275-0285 - the area code traces back to Arizona (Tucson, perhaps?)

30 urthshu  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:01:39pm

He doesn't even have LGF listed under Dar ul-Harb links! What a maroon.

31 Haiku  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:02:41pm

This is bad but has anyone heard what is coming out over the airwaves from Pacifica radio? Everyday I hear their guests and hosts call for a revolution against America. I've heard things like America must be destroyed and calls to support the Iraqi "resistance" against the American troops. I called into the radio station after hearing that and got into an argument with a crazy radical left-wing nut. Did you know that America is responsible for Muslims being terrorists? These people are definately mentally ill!
Unfortunately these people hate Bush so much that I wouldn't be surprised if they commit domestic acts of terrorism if he is re-elected. Their vicious rage reminds me of the Arab/Muslims. In fact Pacifica is run by Islamofacists, practically every show is about how America and Israel oppress Arabs. I'm pretty sure Saudi Arabia funds Pacifica or runs it.
How can anyone get in touch with the F.B.I? I went to their website and their e-mail wasn't working.

32 Inside  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:05:33pm

#26

I was traceing the root domain, htmlplanet.com earlier. I see what you did

Pinging majdur.htmlplanet.com [208.185.127.165] with 32 bytes of data:

Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.

Interestingly that IP address traces to here:

Whois Server Version 1.3

Domain names in the .com and .net domains can now be registered
with many different competing registrars. Go to [Link: www.internic.net...]
for detailed information.

Server Name: NS1.FSBETA.COM
IP Address: 208.185.127.165
Registrar: MELBOURNE IT, LTD. D/B/A INTERNET NAMES WORLDWIDE
Whois Server: whois.melbourneit.com
Referral URL: [Link: www.melbourneit.com...]


>>> Last update of whois database: Sat, 8 May 2004 19:29:52 EDT

33 Yishai  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:05:55pm

Well, Bubbaman, would you believe that that phone number finds itself very much at home all over the arizona nazimedia website? if you google the phone number, you get amazing results...

34 Iron Fist  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:08:47pm

I hate to say I told ya so...

First L ³ splodeydope is first or second quarter of 2005.

Could be before then, given the way the L ³ 's are spirialing down.

35 Jimmy The Clam  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:08:51pm

#29 Bubbaman

520-275-0285 is a cell phone in Tucson.

36 Jimmy The Clam  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:11:55pm

And the registered carrier is AT&T Wireless Services.

37 Yehudit  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:12:48pm

Lileks is worried about a resurgence of domestic terror if Bush wins, especially if the election is close again. As someone who remembers the era of the Symbionese Liberation Army, I sadly agree with him.

38 qüark2  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:13:25pm

This whole thread has been copied and pasted over at the indy site being discussed.

It's been stated they don't capture IP addresses, so they think that covers their buttx. Some one come right behind them with the IP address of a previous poster, so that pretty much cancels that canard. :)

I'm pretty surprised that even they would allow something that volatile to stay posted even if it is hidden. Not hidden to well, everyone is finding it.

39 merav  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:14:07pm

This must be illegal.

And, just on the topic of killing people: just because a place may seem like a military target, that doesn't mean civilians aren't working there. Secretaries, cleaning staff, kiddies visiting their working parents, etc.

Also, recruiting centers are often little booths in crowded civilian areas (I'm thinking of the Bronx, for example). A handful of military personnel in an ocean of civilians.

The idiots who call for such violence probably don't care about that. And yet they'd consider themselves humanitarians, "fighting" (I don't see any of them risking their lives) for "oppressed" people.

40 Abu Khadija  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:15:50pm
How can anyone get in touch with the F.B.I? I went to their website and their e-mail wasn't working.


1. don't bother with the tip line
2. try the Joint Terrorism Task Force (JTTF) for the region in question
3. unsure about #2? Contact your local city or county law enforcement and see if they know
4. JTTF's are regional task forces. If they take an interest, then can make things happen at the level of the field office
5. don't hold your breath -- these folks don't tend to respond all that quickly
6. it helps to be persistent. If at first you get an Agent who just doesn't seem to get it, try again.

These are general suggestions. Your milage may vary.

41 Bubbaman  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:18:16pm

Inside,

Ah, I see now. It was freeservers afterall.

42 Inside  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:19:09pm

Bah...somebody knows their BIND security and I can't mine their DNS server, but I'm pretty sure Abu Khadija is right.

43 Bubbaman  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:21:42pm

Interesting - the idiots are making screen copies of LGF. Typical Nazi tactics.

44 Ms. Andi  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:22:28pm

Someone is posting our comments over there.

45 Inside  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:24:13pm

#43

LOL...thats funny. They have just made all their "AshKKKroft is watching me" fantasies come true. Good work Morlocks...

46 Spiny Norman  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:24:59pm

#24 Inside,

What are the possibilities of connections to al-Majharoun???

#44 Ms. Andi,

That happens all the time, literally, All The Time.

47 Ringometer  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:24:59pm

At [Link: www.hispalibertas.com...] (mostly in spanish but not this item) they have linked many other pages with Al-Masakin spreading "his" news. The links are in the l-a-a-a-rgo part.

48 PostalWorker  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:26:04pm

At Indymedia, the monkeys throw shit on the walls every 15 minutes. Iwonder how much info gets gathered there?

49 Sword of Gideon  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:26:33pm

Phoenix now!

50 Yishai  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:28:47pm

Wow. How did you do that Jimmy the Clam? Or do I not want to know?

Who wants to call? I'm putting up five bucks to the person who does. And a recording of the call would be nice too.

51 Inside  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:29:28pm

#46

I'm not breaking any laws to find out but I'm sure the boys at the NSA got it covered. They can get a court order and seize freeservers' records. Unlike the Morlocks I trust my government.

52 PostalWorker  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:29:56pm

Samson picks up a jawbone of an ass ... BIGEL!!!!!! He cries ....

53 Jimmy The Clam  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:32:15pm

#50

Hey! Five bucks is five bucks!

Actually donate it to either Charles or those Israeli rescue workers that need some new motorcycles.

Give me a moment.

54 Beagle Matamoros  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:35:20pm

Um, it's melting, or something.

55 Vero  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:37:09pm

ah, did anyone take a screen shot looks like they pulled it already

56 jay  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:37:26pm

all the LGF comments posted on Indymedia just disappeared!

57 FH  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:38:49pm

OT:

Bad news, cracks appearing in the UK.

New Poll doesn't look good for Blair

58 Bubbaman  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:39:06pm

They pulled the site and posted all of the IP's of those who visited the morlock's lair.

59 Gideon Phoenix  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:39:35pm

So, they're posting LGF messages are they?
Good.

Indymedia: You trustafarian mumiacong bleevers do realize that you'll be massacred if you try to force a violent solution?
Don't you?
This is real life; spill one drop of blood for your stupid pop-culture status fantasies and you'll open the floodgates.
Just ask yourselves this question (Think, now, your lives may depend on it):
Who has most of the guns?

60 Matt J.  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:39:59pm

I can't wait when hunting hippies becomes legal (hint: it'll happen before pot is made legal, I'll tell you that much).

The irony that they will be the first ones killed by their "friendly" Muslim "warriors" whom they are helping is almost too much to bear for me.

61 Inside  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:41:20pm

#58

Well that explains all the hits on my firewall...

62 j-damn  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:42:48pm

#57

Yes, but if Labor dumps Blair, I don't think they could win.* And a Conservative UK gov't would be much better, all things considered.**


*-nay, may even bring some splodeydopes out of the woodwork, and wouldn't John Bull be a bit more toothy than Jose Pussy?
**-n.npr.

63 Matt J.  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:44:19pm

Oh look! They edited their page and buckled to PC pressure, or something.

64 Jimmy The Clam  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:44:51pm

#50 Yashi

I just called the number and talked to what sounded like a non-accented, American-English speaking male (I guess his age is between 20-30) and he was really cagey about saying whom he was (he wouldn't) and "acted" surprised when I asked him outright if he was advocating terrorism against The United States. He was a cool customer, but I got the impression he was lying his ass off when he denied that he was instigating terrorism because when I mentioned Indymedia at the beginning of the call, he acted as if he received calls from them in the normal course of the day.
I don't believe that number was a mistake.

So there you go.

65 Crazy Ivan  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:44:58pm

They want to attack military targets in the US?!

First of all, the military can handle them. Secondly, don't they realize that if they actually do this, Bush is virtually certain to win a second term.

At this point, I would say any terrorist attack here in the US will have some US leftist fingerprints on it (just like Madrid).

66 justdanny  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:45:06pm

#58 Bubbaman

You have a link for that ? I'm not seeing it.

67 j-damn  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:45:25pm
Just ask yourselves this question (Think, now, your lives may depend on it): Who has most of the guns?

And even if the hardcore LLLs had guns, it's hard to aim when you're high.

I've always thought that San Francisco would be so much lovelier if it the nutria were plugged fulla holes.

68 Ms. Andi  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:47:22pm

I still have the page, haven't refreshed. How do i take a screenshot? Sorry, kinda of stupid when it comes to these things.

69 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:49:31pm

#63
More likely their scumbag lawyer took a break from chasing Saturday night ambulances and advised them that incitement to insurrection is a crime.

I wonder what kind of "court case" this "Honey...Honey" 'tard had in mind when it posted the ip numbers? Pain and suffering to terrorists? Suppression of the right of free assassination?
Telling the truth in a public forum? That one never fails to enrage the pseudo-hippy status pukes.

70 Mr Pol  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:49:35pm

OT: According to a Philippino intelligence services report, A-Q is busy recruiting Philippino muslims for use in the US.

71 evariste  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:50:03pm

Ms. Andi, hit the Print Screen button on your keyboard, then start Paint (start->all programs->accessories->paint), paste, then do file->save as, change it to jpg or gif to save space, name it something you'll remember, hit OK.

72 Matt J.  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:50:29pm

Printscreen button. Paste it into ms paint or photoshop if you have it (ctrl-v).

73 Beagle Matamoros  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:50:33pm

They are due for The Big One anyway. Maybe the Yellowstone caldera will blow with a wind out of the SE. San Francisco is beautiful. I suggest a neutron bomb.

74 Ringometer  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:50:41pm

Comments posted after the long list of IP's:

"Honey"
by Mr Pol Saturday, May. 08, 2004 at 10:42 PM

You are mistaken. Calling for terrorism activity, as the original post did, is not protected speech. Criticizing it, on the other hand, definitely is. BTW, thanks for proving IP addresses are logged on this site. It will make action against whoever posted the original call a lot easier.

add your comments
HA!
by Watcha gonna do?! Saturday, May. 08, 2004 at 10:45 PM

Court case for what? al-masakin's oder to hit US targets has been deleted due to the overwhelming response by freedom loving Americans! This indy whatever site wised up.

75 Bubbaman  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:51:20pm

Got it all - screen captures, the .pdf, etc. Whoever needs it, let me know.

76 Inside  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:52:06pm

#68

If you are using IE...go to File then Save As. It will save the whole page that way or just use the printscreen key and then open a Word document (if you have Word) and go to Edit and then Paste.

77 Jimmy The Clam  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:54:10pm
78 realwest  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:54:22pm

Just received a great e-mail from Reaganite! He's doing okdokey and um, looking good!!!
STILL PISSED off at the Ted Koppel Show; wasn't surprised I've been all over ABC, Koppel AND their advertising and marketing groups. We could however use a bit more traction here folks; just e-mail (fax or snail mail may be even more effective; but NOT to Koppel or to the ABC News group, but to the advertising/marketing divisions). Do what he did on Memorial Day is certainly understandable. Doing it when he did was pure political pandering. Short of appointing ME head of ABC News (trying really hard not to pee in my pants) we simply have to express our displeasure with his "solemnly" reading out the names of American Forces during his "extended" show three fricking weeks before Memorial Day is We could however use a bit more traction here folks; just e-mail (fax or snail mail may be even more effective; but NOT to Koppel or to the ABC News group, but to the advertising/marketing divisions).

79 Yishai  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:54:25pm

Hehe. Thanks Jimmy! I'm sending $5 to Charles and $5 to the One Family Fund. Thanks!

80 Vero  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:55:24pm

Blogs for Bush has part of that Indymedia posted on their site. It isn't a screen shot, just a copy & paste job of the last few paragraphs

81 Bubbaman  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:56:21pm

Shhhhh..... Jimmy - you gave away my secret! Now, the morlocks will catch on. Google is pretty f-ing amazing at how quickly they cache that stuff. In any event I have the .pdf and screenshots backed up.

82 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:56:41pm

"court case"

More proof that Mumiacong traitors and LLL fifth columnists literally believe that it is a crime to criticize or question their position. They are fascist scum.

83 Inside  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:59:40pm

Yeah I wanna see that court case. "All we were doing was calling for violence against our country and mean people yelled at us" waaaaaaaa

84 JimmytheClaw  Sat, May 8, 2004 8:59:59pm

ok time for some country lyrics

Well a man come on 6 o'clock news
Said somebody been shot
Somebody's been abused
somebody blew up a building
somebody stole a car
somebody got away
somebody didn't get too far
Yeah, they didn't get too far

Grand pappy told my pappy back in my day
Son a man had to answer for the wicked that he'd done
Take all the rope in Texas
Find a tall oak tree, round up all of them bad boys
Hang them high in the street
For all the people to see

That
Justice is the one thing you should always find
You got to saddle up your boys
You got to draw a hard line
When the gun smoke settles we'll sing a victory tune
And we'll all meet back at the local saloon
And we'll raise up our glasses against evil forces singing
whiskey for my men, beer for my horses

We got too many gangsters doing dirty deeds
too much corruption and crime in the streets
It's time the long arm of the law put a few more in the ground
Send 'em all to their maker and he'll settle 'em down
You can bet he'll set 'em down

Cause
Justice is the one thing you should always find
You got to saddle up your boys
You got to draw a hard line
When the gun smoke settles we'll sing a victory tune
And we'll all meet back at the local saloon
And we'll raise up our glasses against evil forces singing
whiskey for my men, beer for my horses
whiskey for my men, beer for my horses

He knew
Justice is the one thing you should always find
You got to saddle up your boys,
You got to draw a hard line
When the gun smoke settles we'll sing a victory tune
And we'll all meet back at the local saloon
And we'll raise up our glasses against evil forces
Singin' whiskey for my men, beer for my horses
Singing whiskey for my men, beer for my horses

now drink whisky for the minions beer for the horses

/cackling like iron fist

85 Jimmy The Clam  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:00:08pm

#79 - Yishai

Awsome Yishai!

I'll match the money to the One Family Fund!

Jimmy and Yishai, fighting terrorisn, $5 at a time!
w00t! :-)

86 Jimmy The Clam  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:02:02pm

Yes, I know.

Preview is my friend.

87 justdanny  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:02:14pm

[Link: www.indybay.org...]

Thats showing as the link to the pdf file that was up.

I don't have a reader so clicking it freezes my screen.

Anybody want to see if its still there ?

88 Vero  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:02:23pm
Yeah I wanna see that court case. "All we were doing was calling for violence against our country and mean people yelled at us" waaaaaaaa

( wink ) now you know what Leftist like Kennedy want their judges on bench and doing everything they can to keep valid men and women off. To protect their voting block

89 Bubbaman  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:03:23pm

Anyone have any good connections at the Washington Times who might be interested in this story?

90 Bubbaman  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:05:04pm

I gotta catch some zzzz's - goodnight everyone and happy mother's day!

91 JimmytheClaw  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:05:07pm

ok just read over the thread just watched walkin tall and seeing thread subject made me think of toby keith and willy nelson so hadda post the lyrics and after reading just gotta say drink and hold a hard line

/did i say that out loud

92 Ringometer  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:05:12pm

Still is, justdanny

93 Jimmy The Clam  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:05:14pm

#87 - justdanny

It looks good justdanny!

94 Yehudit  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:08:33pm

Slightly OT - This would make a good post item: Uzbeki Christian pastor at conference in the US.

As the MC interviewed him, he began to share about his ministry in his country that borders Afghanistan. He talked about the church he pastors of a few hundred people. He also shared how it is illegal in his country to be a Christian. . . . He said something to this effect: "I would like all of you to know that my church and the Christians in my country are praying that President Bush will be reelected."

I was stunned. I knew that this gathering had to include many pastors from all over the political spectrum and I was certain this would not go over well. Immediately, there were murmurings and rumblings throughout the audience and the MC seemed a little uncertain about what to do next.

However, this pastor would not be denied. Grasping the microphone firmly in his hand, he continued, "The officials in my country are afraid of President Bush, so they don't persecute Christians as much. Under Clinton it was very bad for us. Many of us were arrested, put in jail, and some were killed. With Clinton, it was very bad. But under President Bush, it has been so much better, so we are praying for him."

95 Yishai  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:09:15pm

Why aren't the morlicks posting here? In the immortal words of John Effin' Kerry...

Bring it on...

96 zombie  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:09:28pm

Uh...when I go to the link at Indybay that Charles provides, all I now get is a couple of not-too-outrageous sentences and posts. I guess it's all been removed, whatever it was. But does anybody have a screenshot or cached version of whatever the hullaballoo is about? Because, despite reading this whole thread, I have no idea. Did someone advocate violence? How, exactly?

97 Beagle Matamoros  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:10:10pm

What is not a "court" case? Did someone propose a settlement?

Cause of action: Exposing Nazimedia's Plot to Attack "Military Targets" in the US. I like our chances.

[Foghorn Leghorn] Wha..Wha..Wha..I sah this means wah!

Actually, wartime treason.
Law of Treason 1945-1970

The majority of a three-judge district court thought that the Administrator acted within the statute, for — citing treason cases — "It is well settled that aid and assistance to the enemy may be extended in the form of verbal utterance alone, as was the case in this instance.".......

Again, in decisions sustaining convictions of defendants who participated in enemy radio propaganda efforts, the courts indicated that it met the constitutional standard of proof that two witnesses established a defendant's continuing cooperation in a connected, planned program; in each of these cases there was direct two-witness testimony to particular significant acts, but the courts intimated that they would have accepted testimony of two witnesses to separate phases of a closely woven net of behavior.55

98 Ringometer  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:11:34pm

Zombie, the whole text is here: [Link: www.hispalibertas.com...]

99 justdanny  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:11:58pm

Not only did they edit the post, they also edited the title. The origianl title was "Military Targets in the USA must be Attacked". Now it just says "Military Targets in the USA *****".

So they are'nt just brain damaged psychotic dimwits. Theyre cowards too.

I guarantee this same post in full is on other idiotmedia sites in the US and around the world. This is a call to jihad. And because of the way idiotmedia caters to jihadis, I'll bet the call is answered.

100 Geepers  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:13:10pm

Yehudit (#94),

Thanks for the link.

Definitely send that one to Charles.

101 Ms. Andi  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:14:05pm

#71 evariste

Cool! thanks. Mission accomplished. #76 Inside thanks.

102 Bubbaman  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:14:50pm

Ha, the puny bastards are trying to hack into my ports. I'm watching the lame attempts on my firewall. Die you commie-Islamofascist-as$-wipes!

103 merav  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:15:14pm

#89, bubbaman,

This sounds like the kinda stuff Bill O'Reilly would handle well on his show. Maybe a referral to FOXnews?

104 justdanny  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:17:54pm

Aw man, its 2:15, I gotta crash. Can't wait to wake up and go at this google style.

HAPPY MOTHERS DAY !! all you mothers. You know who you are ;)

G'Night all

LGF = Liberty. Grace. Freedom.

105 merav  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:18:39pm

justdanny,

"Happy Mother's Day" Thanks. :-)

106 Jason  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:18:55pm

Has it occurred to anyone that Indymedia threatening the army is very much like a certain Monty Python skit?

Knock at the door, sergeant enters, and salutes.
Sergeant Two civilian gentlemen to see you ... sir!
Colonel Show them in please, sergeant.
Sergeant Mr Dino Vercotti and Mr Luigi Vercotti.
The Vercotti brothers enter. They wear Mafia suits and dark glasses.
Dino Good morning, colonel.
Colonel Good morning gentlemen. Now what can I do for you.
Luigi (looking round office casually)You've ... you've got a nice army base here, colonel.
Colonel Yes.
Luigi We wouldn't want anything to happen to it.
Colonel What?
Dino No, what my brother means is it would be a shame if... (he knocks something off mantel)
Colonel Oh.
Dino Oh sorry, colonel.
Colonel Well don't worry about that. But please do sit down.
Luigi No, we prefer to stand, thank you, colonel.
Colonel All right. All right. But what do you want?
Dino What do we want, ha ha ha.
Luigi Ha ha ha, very good, colonel.
Dino The colonel's a joker, Luigi.
Luigi Explain it to the colonel, Dino.
Dino How many tanks you got, colonel?
Colonel About five hundred altogether.
Luigi Five hundred! Hey!
Dino You ought to be careful, colonel.
Colonel We are careful, extremely careful.
Dino 'Cos things break, don't they?
Colonel Break?
Luigi Well everything breaks, don't it colonel. (he breaks something on desk) Oh dear.
Dino Oh see my brother's clumsy colonel, and when he gets unhappy he breaks things. Like say, he don't feel the army's playing fair by him, he may start breaking things, colonel.
Colonel What is all this about?
Luigi How many men you got here, colonel?
Colonel Oh, er ... seven thousand infantry, six hundred artillery, and er, two divisions of paratroops.
Luigi Paratroops, Dino.
Dino Be a shame if someone was to set fire to them.
Colonel Set fire to them?
Luigi Fires happen, colonel.
Dino Things burn.
Colonel Look, what is all this about?
Dino My brother and I have got a little proposition for you colonel.
Luigi Could save you a lot of bother.
Dino I mean you're doing all right here aren't you, colonel.
Luigi Well suppose some of your tanks was to get broken and troops started getting lost, er, fights started breaking out during general inspection, like.
Dino It wouldn't be good for business would it, colonel?
Colonel Are you threatening me?
Dino Oh, no, no, no.
Luigi Whatever made you think that, colonel?
Dino The colonel doesn't think we're nice people, Luigi.
Luigi We're your buddies, colonel.
Dino We want to look after you.
Colonel Look after me?
Luigi We can guarantee you that not a single armoured division will get done over for fifteen bob a week.
Colonel No, no, no.
Luigi Twelve and six.
Colonel No, no, no.
Luigi Eight and six ... five bob...
Colonel No, no this is silly.
Dino What's silly?
Colonel No, the whole premise is silly and it's very badly written. I'm the senior officer here and I haven't had a funny line yet. So I'm stopping it.
Dino You can't do that!
Colonel I've done it. The sketch is over.

107 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:19:08pm

Zombie
Among other things, they called for violent attacks on ROTC buildings and recruiting offices as well as for the murder of "unarmed military targets" including cadets, off-duty military personnel and police officers.
They suggested the use of ball-bats, knives, brass-knuckles, firearms and explosives.

108 jay  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:19:31pm

102 Bubbaman

LMAO!!! Desparate as well as idiots aren't they?

109 Rayra[deleted]  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:20:47pm
110 Gideon Phoenix  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:23:35pm

Indy morlocks ****** ** **** **** *** nearest lamppost and their **** **** and ******** ******* ****** through the streets **** **** **** *** *** ****** ****** ***** **-******** *** cheap pet food.

111 justdanny  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:23:42pm

Oh. And the google cache #77 Jimmy The Clam linked to for it is gone now.

Night

112 zombie  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:23:49pm

OK, thx everyone, I got the pdf and the Spanish site versions. Not too shocked, actually: I see this stuff all the time around SF and Berkeley. Well, actually, this is taking it to the next step: calling for attacking people walking down the sidewalk in the US. Just plain murder of people whom you dub your "political opponents."

Sniff...sniff...is that a whiff of fascism in the air? Stalin, Hitler, and every totalitarian state since then has done the exact same thing: kill anyone they perceive as their opponent. It's not that the Indymedia types are falling unconsciously into out-and-out totalitarian behavior: they've studied their Marxist history books. They know exactly what their doing.

113 merav  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:24:12pm

#106, Jason - THanks for that skit! Do you remember the one about the sinking of the Titanic? When the crew found a trunkful of costumes, dressed up as women and children, and yelled, "women and children first?" Then they ran out, had to dress up as Indians, and yelled, "women, children and Red Indians first."

114 Spiny Norman  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:25:14pm

Oh yippie! My comment never appeared on that thread, but my IP did...

Should I brace for an onslaught of spam?

115 merav  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:26:05pm

spiny norman,

How did you choose you name?

116 Jason  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:26:41pm

#113 merav, yes!!! It was a riot! :)

117 merav  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:31:00pm

jason, did you ever see the movie, "Whitnail and I?" It was one of George Harrison's first productions. It was in the mid-eighties. It had the same type of Monty Python humor. But I watched it with a bunch of non-Python fans, who didn't get it. It was about two stoned blokes in London.

118 ylreveb  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:31:45pm

Do the Spooklords know this? I sure hope so.

These people make the old Communist fifth columnists look lame....

119 Ms. Andi  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:31:49pm

Ok, another dumb question, how do I find out what my IP address is?

120 Spiny Norman  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:32:35pm

Dinsdale?

More precisely, here:

Interviewer: Was there anything unusual about him?

Gloria: I should say not. Dinsdale was a perfectly normal person in every way. Except is as much as he was convinced that he was being watched by a giant hedgehog whom he referred to as Spiny Norman.

Interviewer: How big was Norman supposed to be?

Gloria: Normally he was wont to be about twelve feet from nose to tail, but when Dinsdale was very depressed Norman could be anything up to eight hundred yards long. When Norman was about, Dinsdale would go very quiet and his nose would swell up and his teeth would start moving about and he'd become very violent and claim that he'd laid Stanley Baldwin.

121 Jason  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:33:39pm

merav, no I haven't seen it but thanks for the tip. I will check it out.

122 Spiny Norman  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:33:55pm

D'oh! That was for #115 merav.

123 merav  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:34:31pm

spiny norman,

I ask, because when I was a kid there was a local HS band which called itself by that name.

124 Spiny Norman  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:36:25pm

#123 merav,

I like their sense of (relatively) obscure humor; I wonder if I would've like their music?

125 evariste  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:38:14pm

Ms. Andi, do Start->Run, type cmd and hit enter. A console window should appear. Into this, type ipconfig and hit enter. Your IP address will appear. Feel free to close the window.
'Night gang :-)

126 merav  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:41:06pm

spiny norman, #124,

I can't remember any of it. :-)

127 Spiny Norman  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:41:11pm

Did anyone get a screenshot of the page with the IP addresses on it? That's been "disappeared" now, too.

128 merav  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:43:27pm

OK, here's another IP question: Is the IP address stable, or does it change when you reboot?

(Well, at least I know how to type fast.)

129 merav  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:45:23pm

spiny,

would google cache have it?

130 Spiny Norman  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:45:28pm

#124 merav,

So they didn't have quite the success of another band with a Monty Python name, Toad The Wet Sprocket?

131 Matt J.  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:46:41pm
#128 merav

It depends. Some change, some don't. Most change, however.

132 merav  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:47:46pm

#124, spiny norman,

Nah, we'd've hearda them by now. (I is a English major.)

133 Spiny Norman  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:48:24pm
Is the IP address stable, or does it change when you reboot?

No, but if you use dial-up, it changes whenever you connect. With cable, it stays the same.

...if I've been informed correctly.

134 zombie  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:49:15pm

#117   merav

did you ever see the movie, "Whitnail and I?" It was one of George Harrison's first productions. It was in the mid-eighties. It had the same type of Monty Python humor. But I watched it with a bunch of non-Python fans, who didn't get it. It was about two stoned blokes in London.

Oh, man, I loved that movie. Very subtle, but very hilarious. I never thought of it as "Pythonesque," though. A very different sort of humor. And it was deep, man, about a lot more than just two stoned blokes. And the real title is Withnail and I. Very highly recommended.

135 merav  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:49:23pm

#131, Matt J,

What determines whether it changes or not? Does it have anything to do with what country you're in?

136 Beagle Matamoros  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:50:15pm
** Chandler v. United States, 171 F.(2d) 921 (C. C. A. 1st 1948), affirming 72 F.Supp. 231 (D. Mass. 1947); certiorari denied, 336 U. S. 918 (1949), rehearing denied, 336 U. S. 947 (1949): Participation in enemy wartime radio propaganda program held sufficient overt act.

** Gillars v. United States, 182 F.(2d) 962 (Ct. App. D. C. 1950): Participation in enemy wartime radio propaganda program held sufficient overt act.

** Best v. United States, 184 F.(2d) 131 (C. C. A. 1st. 1950), affirming 76 F.Supp. 857 (D. Mass. 1948); certiorari denied, 340 U. S. 939 (1951), rehearing denied, 341 U. S. 907 (1951): Participation in enemy wartime radio propaganda program held sufficient overt act. See also 73 F.Supp. 654 (D. Mass. 1947) (sanity hearing); 76 F.Supp. 138 (D. Mass. 1948) (subpoena for witnesses; validity of arrest).

** Burgman v. United States, 188 F.(2d) 637 (Ct. App. D. C. 1951), affirming 87 F.Supp. 568 (Dist. Ct. D. C. 1949), certiorari denied, 342 U. S. 838 (1951): Participation in enemy wartime radio propaganda program held sufficient overt act. See also 89 F.Supp. 288 (Dist. Ct. D. C. 1950) (bail denied pending appeal: in light of Chandler v. United States, no substantial legal question).

** D'Aquino v. United States, 192 F.(2d) 338 (C. C. A. 9th. 1951), rehearing denied, 203 F.(2d) 390 (C. C. A. 9th. 1951), certiorari denied, 343 U. S. 935 (1952), rehearing denied, 343 U. S. 958 (1952), rehearing denied, 345 U. S. 931 (1953): Participation in enemy wartime radio propaganda program held sufficient overt act. See also 180 F.(2d) 271 (C. C. A. 9th. Douglas, Circuit Justice, 1950) (bail allowed pending appeal).

Overt Act, Posting on Indymedia

137 Ms. Andi  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:51:58pm

Thanks evariste

138 ördög Johnson  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:53:24pm

#125 evariste

What if she runs Mac? Or linux?
She may also be on a LAN behind a router and thus may have a private IP.

Get it all

There you get your IP as it seen from outside. Shows also your OS, browser make and version, screen rez, also the coutry you are in and its capital, in the case you've forgoten. :-)

139 dogbone  Sat, May 8, 2004 9:59:13pm

Now the original link has what looks like is a new prisoner photo.

140 merav  Sat, May 8, 2004 10:00:17pm

#133, spiny norman,

OK, thanks!

#134, zombie, thanks for the link. Yeah, that movie was great. At the time I saw it, I was desperate to leave crowded, sweltering NYC, just for a weekend in the country, but I had no money. So as soon as I heard the line, "I gotta get out of the city," in the beginning of the film, I was in love.

141 Jason  Sat, May 8, 2004 10:00:23pm

#135 merav,

To determine whether your IP address changes from time to time, check the Properties sheet for the network adapter. If DHCP client is enabled, then the IP address is assigned by your ISP, and changeable, as opposed to static.

142 ördög Johnson  Sat, May 8, 2004 10:04:35pm

#133 Spiny Norman 5/8/2004 11:48PM PST

IP...

With cable, it stays the same.

Not necessarily. Unless you have allocated static IPs by the cable/DSL company, if you lose power and return after a couple of hours, or if the provider is restructuring netwok and doing maintenance, your IP may change.

143 merav  Sat, May 8, 2004 10:07:17pm

ordog johnson, #138
Thanks.

dogbone, #139.

Yeah, it looks like a soldier restraining a prisoner. Maybe I'm naive, but I doubt that if he was torturing the prisoner, he'd pose for photographs during the "session," let alone with his face clearly visible.

144 urthshu  Sat, May 8, 2004 10:10:06pm

75
informed jihadwatch about it. He may want a copy

145 merav  Sat, May 8, 2004 10:12:15pm

jason, #141, thanks.

146 merav  Sat, May 8, 2004 10:18:56pm

Day off today. Beautiful morning. Time to start the day.

Have a nice day, everyone.

147 Elle Plater  Sat, May 8, 2004 10:47:48pm

#102 Bubbaman

Ha, the puny bastards are trying to hack into my ports. I'm watching the lame attempts on my firewall

Now your freaking me out. How do I protect my computer?

148 Sean II  Sat, May 8, 2004 11:04:07pm

Something about this story really raises some doubts with me...


Concerns Rise Over Treatment of Indians in Iraq
VELICHIKKALA, India (Reuters) - Indian police are hunting a jobs agent who duped poor and illiterate workers into going to U.S. army camps in Iraq where they say they ended up trapped for months working as virtual slaves.

Allegations of abuse by U.S. troops told by the first batch of returnees sparked outrage in India last week, drawing comparisons with the treatment of Iraqi prisoners.

At the request of the Indian government, U.S. officials have launched an investigation into the claims.

But the workers, while insisting U.S. troops intimidated and harassed them and that they were not allowed to leave, say they were never abused physically.

Interviews with those at the heart of the complaints indicate the main problems were with the contractor employing them -- on behalf of a unit of U.S. firm Halliburton -- and Iraq's harsh wartime environment and desert climate.

Police say the agent, who recruited the workers for another company in Bombay, which then sent them overseas, has fled.

Fasil Aliyarukunju and Abdul Azeez Shajahan, two day-wage Muslim butchers from Velichikkala village in the coconut and cashew groves of the southern state of Kerala, say they were tricked into going to Iraq.

They were then kept for nine months working 18 hours a day in U.S. camp kitchens, threatened with beatings and verbally abused by soldiers before their contractor employer let them go home.

"They did not abuse us physically," Fasil said, referring to U.S. soldiers.

"The psychological abuse was worse," he said, sitting in a tiny cement-floored hut, the air heavy with wood smoke from cooking fires.

American soldiers made vague threats the contract kitchen staff would "face the consequences" if they stopped work, sometimes patting their guns as they spoke, the pair said.

SHOOTING AT DOGS

At one camp, Q-West, several hours from Baghdad, a soldier fired at a stray dog while walking over to negotiate with workers who had gone on strike to demand unpaid overtime.

"We went back to work. When they shot at the dog, I felt I might also be shot at like a dog and killed," Shajahan said.

Several times, he added, supervising soldiers tried to hit him, accusing him of not working properly.

But far worse were the recruitment agent and their employer, subcontracted to supply labor for Kellogg Brown & Root, a subsidiary of Halliburton. KBR is under scrutiny from military auditors over the cost of feeding troops in Iraq.

Halliburton, run by Vice President Dick Cheney until he joined the race for the White House in 2000, is the military's top contractor in Iraq, providing services ranging from laundry to oilfield repair.

"We were not knowing we were going to Iraq," said Fasil, explaining the agent told them he had found jobs for them in Kuwait and promising 18,000 rupees a month ($400) -- more than three times what they were earning at home.

So they sold off family jewelry and land and borrowed from neighbors to raise the agent's fee of 80,000 rupees ($1,800) each.

They landed in Kuwait in August and after a wash and a meal, were put in a truck and driven through the desert for 24 hours.

"When we got there, we asked someone and they said 'you are in Iraq'," said Fasil.

There was no accommodation and they had to pitch tents in the sweltering heat. They worked twice as long and were paid half as much as promised and the Indian chef forced the Muslims to cut and cook pork, even during the sacred fasting month of Ramadan.

Fasil still walks the kilometer or so to the village mosque a few extra times a day to say prayers in penance. On top of that, came daily bombardments from the fighting going on around them.

"I just could not live in such conditions," said Fasil, who spent much of his time at another camp, Tall 'Afar.

After months of pressuring and arguing, the subcontractor finally brought in replacements and let them drive, unprotected, to the border with Jordan, where Fasil was beaten by Iraqis for working for the Americans.

About three million Indians work in the Gulf, many as laborers, construction workers or in hotels and restaurants. India estimates more than 1,300 Indians are in Iraq and is investigating how many may be there against their will.

Amid increasing fears about the dangers in Iraq and the treatment of workers, the Kerala government has also asked New Delhi to bring back any workers there unwillingly.

"We don't want this to happen to anyone else," said Shajahan.

? Reuters 2004. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content, including by caching, framing or similar means, is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters and the Reuters sphere logo are registered trademarks and trademarks of the Reuters group of companies around the world.

149 ördög Johnson  Sat, May 8, 2004 11:05:29pm

#147 Elle Plater

Now your freaking me out. How do I protect my computer?

Cable/DSL? How about a firewall?
If you are on a dilaup, chances that you will be hacked are tiny. You have to worry more about all sorts of worms and viruses distributed by email -- trash outlook is the best solution (use Thunderbird instead, it's rather neat).

if on cable/DSL, either
#1 - Get a software firewall
or
#2 - Get a router with firewall built in

You can also combine #1 & #2.
Routers are fairly cheap on ebay. Linksys or Network Everywhere are low cost and pretty good.

If you run linux, firewall is free (including tripwire, portscan prevention and bunch of other security tools). If you run somethunk else, you have to shell out some bucks.

150 Sean II  Sat, May 8, 2004 11:11:13pm
151 Elle Plater  Sat, May 8, 2004 11:20:31pm

#149 ördög Johnson
Thanks for the info :-)

152 Elle Plater  Sat, May 8, 2004 11:24:52pm

ördög Johnson , Do you think that SP2 for Windows XP will solve alot of security problems?

153 ördög Johnson  Sat, May 8, 2004 11:35:49pm

#152 Elle Plater

No. But it may fix some buggers. Microsoft (I always wondered if that name refered to the BillG's equippment) is an adherent of security through obscurity. Often, SPs f**k up more than they fix. I wouldn't run xpee if they paid me, to tell you the truth. Well, sometimes I am paid to fix other people's xpees, but

i hate it!

Hate it!!!

HATE IT!!!

:-)

154 Morgan  Sat, May 8, 2004 11:44:30pm

150 Sean II

The attack killed the Chechyn president. While most commentators obsess over Israel, it is places like Chechnya, Kashmir, Indonesia, Nigeria and Sudan where Muslims are committing most of their murderous crimes against non-Muslims.

155 Sean II  Sat, May 8, 2004 11:52:41pm

Latest:

Chechen Gov't: Kadyrov Injured, Not Dead

156 merav  Sat, May 8, 2004 11:58:29pm

www.foxnews.com

Blast occurred under VIP section where Chechyn president was seated.

157 Jason  Sun, May 9, 2004 12:02:32am

#152 Elle

Yes XPSP2 will help security in a big way. Even after you install it, run Windows Update often.

158 Gregory  Sun, May 9, 2004 12:07:38am

Religion of peace strikes again, this time with peaceful anti-personel landmines.

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

159 Gregory  Sun, May 9, 2004 12:16:32am

did anyone notice that Ted Rall was removed from the NY Times cartoon section?

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

he used to be in the spot below Glenn McCoy and to the right of Tom Toles

160 LC LaWedgie  Sun, May 9, 2004 12:19:04am

Intercosmos Media Group appears to be one of the leaders in spam generation on the web.
According to their webpage, they also offer .CN addresses which generate most of the spam on the web.

Here's a sample of one of the netabuse emails:
>You can shut me up, quick, by telling me exactly what directNIC.com had to do with this email that caused your automated program to send *27* mail messages through my privately operated mail server. And just "Your company sucks and is spam-friendly" is not only incorrect, but libelous and not an acceptable
answer.
***
As clearly stated in the spam complaints you obviously deleted unread as usual:

Page in the spam:
[Link: kamsia.bizzycom.com...]
Redirects to:
[Link: www.zibycom.com...]
Opens frame:
[Link: www.zibycom.com...]

All the spams cycle through the same list of spammer's domains all peddling the same scams. All of those below are serviced by directnic.com in one form or another. Do you have even one "client" who isn't spamming?

*********

161 Morgan  Sun, May 9, 2004 12:39:25am

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

"In Moscow, Russian President Vladimir Putin vowed revenge for the attack, saying: "Retribution is inevitable.""

I'm sure if such retribution is "extrajudicial" the UN and the governments of Europe will be sure to condemn it.

/sarcasm

162 halldor  Sun, May 9, 2004 12:49:31am

#154 Morgan

Kadyrov is a Muslim.

163 SA  Sun, May 9, 2004 12:50:38am

Morgan,

So right! Today, my answer to a muslim who carries an American passport when she started ranting about the abuses of the US and how Americans are as bad as the Iraqis working for Saddam was: American soldiers can continue to "torture" iraqis until hell freezes over and they will never catch up to the number of atrocities committed by your brothers throughout the world in a single day. This shut her up immediately!

164 paul  Sun, May 9, 2004 1:34:02am

"The attack killed the Chechyn president. While most commentators obsess over Israel, it is places like Chechnya, Kashmir, Indonesia, Nigeria and Sudan where Muslims are committing most of their murderous crimes against non-Muslims. "

wtf?! any word for the hundreds of thousands of muslim dead killed at the hands of non-muslims in chechnya?

165 scaramouche  Sun, May 9, 2004 1:34:06am

#154 Morgan

While most commentators obsess over Israel, it is places like Chechnya, Kashmir, Indonesia, Nigeria and Sudan where Muslims are committing most of their murderous crimes against non-Muslims.

But I thought if the Israel/Palestine issue is settled, all the world's problems would magically disolve. At least, that's what the Arabs and the gullible world press believe.

166 paul  Sun, May 9, 2004 1:43:13am

Morgan wrote:
'"In Moscow, Russian President Vladimir Putin vowed revenge for the attack, saying: "Retribution is inevitable.""

I'm sure if such retribution is "extrajudicial" the UN and the governments of Europe will be sure to condemn it.'

hey! maybe after murdering hundreds of thousands of chechens, destroying their cities, homes and lives, and imposing a puppet government in a laughably blatant sham election, there might be some rationale for political and military restraint even in the face of violence!

"naw, they're muslims, it's their fault and they deserve it."

big ups to all the racists who read this site!

167 scaramouche  Sun, May 9, 2004 1:45:40am

OT: Condi to the cluess Q: Time to show leadership against terrorism.

#166 paul

big ups to all the racists who read this site!

Thanks! I'd rather be in their company than your any day.

168 [Engineer]  Sun, May 9, 2004 1:51:29am

#166 paul

big ups to all the racists who read this site!

Since when is Muslim a race?

169 scaramouche  Sun, May 9, 2004 1:54:48am

This headline wins the prize for "Most Comically Unhinged Story of the Week".

170 paul  Sun, May 9, 2004 2:06:20am

"Thanks! I'd rather be in their company than your any day. "

Of course you would! Why else would you be here? I'd get the same response on any neonazi forum. But do you have anything rational to say to my actual arguments about Chechnya?

"Since when is Muslim a race?"

Very clever rebuttals, fellas! "big ups to all you irrational bigots," then - does that work better for you?

171 Gregory  Sun, May 9, 2004 2:06:36am

yes paul. The oh-so-innocent Chechens need you to defend them against the onslaught of evil racist web surfers. Shine on you crazy diamond.

Dolt.

172 Abu Khadija  Sun, May 9, 2004 2:07:18am

Pardon me for veering back on topic for just a second, but this isn't the first time Charles has brought this guy to our collective attention:

[Link: www.littlegreenfootballs.com...]

173 paul  Sun, May 9, 2004 2:08:05am

not to say that you all are neonazis. but you sure are bigots!

174 paul  Sun, May 9, 2004 2:12:04am

"yes paul. The oh-so-innocent Chechens need you to defend them against the onslaught of evil racist web surfers. Shine on you crazy diamond.

Dolt. "

you do have a point. sorry for interrupting the big muslim-hating love-in - i was just checking in to see the latest drivel. foolish of me to think i might get some semblance of a coherent argument from you lot.

175 zee  Sun, May 9, 2004 2:13:01am

OT

I should try to at least start one day without reading any news.

This just doesn't set the right mood for the day

Farrakhan: President Bush Risks Worldwide Jihad Unless He Abandons War Course

In a two-hour message delivered from the National Press Club, the leader of the Nation of Islam warned America’s unparalleled power will bring her demise, unless the world’s only superpower abandons war in Iraq and pursues just policies at home and abroad.

If America does not change course as a George W. brought America into existence as the first president, a George W will take America out of existence and you will witness the ruin of the greatest nation in the history of the present world, said Min. Louis Farrakhan in a major address May 3 from Washington, D.C.

176 Athos  Sun, May 9, 2004 2:20:29am

#173 paul

but you sure are bigots!

Is that the infamous wide brush?

So, someone who disagrees with you is either a racist or a bigot or both?

Frankly, you are an arrogant pompous little wanker.

Cry me a river over Chechnya........and the islamofascists there who are nothing more than terrorists.

Let me guess, you have an equal opportunity whinge - it works for both Palestinians and Chechens.

177 Athos  Sun, May 9, 2004 2:23:50am

#174 Paul

foolish of me to think i might get some semblance of a coherent argument from you lot.
hey! maybe after murdering hundreds of thousands of chechens, destroying their cities, homes and lives, and imposing a puppet government in a laughably blatant sham election, there might be some rationale for political and military restraint even in the face of violence!

What a surprise you can't find any semblance of a coherent argument. Do feel free to rant on - - - - somewhere else.

GAZE

178 halldor  Sun, May 9, 2004 2:28:37am

MOSCOW (Reuters) - The head of the pro-Moscow Chechen administration on Sunday denied reports that regional president Akhmad Kadyrov and other top officials had been killed in a blast at a stadium.

"According to my information, Akhmad Kadyrov received injuries of moderate seriousness, but his life is not in danger," said Ziad Sabsabi, head of the Chechen administration, told Itar-Tass news agency.

Separately, Tass also quoted Chechen officials as saying that the general in charge of Russian troops in Chechnya, Valery Baranov who had also been earlier reported killed, was being operated on for his injuries.

179 halldor  Sun, May 9, 2004 2:35:23am

But Putin has now confirmed Kadyrov's death:

[Link: www.interfax.ru...]

180 greenmamba  Sun, May 9, 2004 2:44:43am

#170 paul

Thanks! I'd rather be in their company than your any day.
Of course you would! Why else would you be here?

er ...... so why are you here paul?

181 halldor  Sun, May 9, 2004 2:55:35am

Chechen bomb kills president

Sun 9 May, 2004


By Sonia Oxley

MOSCOW (Reuters) - A bomb at a packed stadium has killed Chechnya's Moscow-backed president Akhmad Kadyrov and at least 13 other people, dealing a huge blow to President Vladimir Putin's efforts to stamp out
rebellion there.

The commander of Russian forces in the region was among many others injured by the assassination, apparently concealed in the stadium's structure, at annual celebrations marking Moscow's 1945 victory over Nazi Germany.

"Kadyrov passed away on May 9 on the day of our national holiday," Putin was quoted on Sunday by the Kremlin as saying after meeting the official's son, Ramzan.

Valery Baranov, commander of Russian forces in the region, underwent surgery for serious wounds at a military hospital.

(snip)

"The bomb was placed inside a concrete part of the stadium," said Khamid Kadayev, Chechnya's deputy interior minister, speaking on television from the scene of the blast.

He said this was why the bomb had not been detected the previous night and Sunday morning when the stadium was swept by security officials before Victory Day celebrations.

Television reports suggested the bomb may have been planted in the stadium during reconstruction work over the past three months.

Itar-Tass news agency quoted an interior ministry spokesman as saying five people had been detained in connection with the attack. It gave no details.

(snip)

BLAST TARGETED VIP AREA

The attack on the stadium at what would have been a high-security event, celebrating a major occasion in Russian history, dealt an enormous blow to Putin's efforts to restore order in the north Caucasus region.

Putin, who has several times declared the war in Chechnya to be effectively over, has made his hardline policy in the region a key part of his domestic policy. He told World War Two veterans after the attack:

"There can be no doubt that retribution is unavoidable for those whom we are fighting today. It will be unavoidable for terrorists."

The blast appeared to target the VIP area of the stadium. Kadyrov had been the lynchpin of Putin's attempts to restore firm Russian rule in Chechnya. He was elected last October, virtually unchallenged, to build an administration capable of establishing full Russian authority.

Interfax news agency said Sergei Abramov, at present Chechen prime minister, would take over as acting president.

(snip)

182 LC LaWedgie  Sun, May 9, 2004 2:58:32am

/wedgie_on
The Price of Arrogance by Fareed Zakaria

Whether he wins or loses in November, George W. Bush's legacy is now clear: the creation of a poisonous atmosphere of anti-Americanism around the globe. I'm sure he takes full responsibility.


/wedgie_off

183 Gregory  Sun, May 9, 2004 3:05:42am

hey paul, take a look at what you're supporting

[Link: story.news.yahoo.com...]

184 teacake  Sun, May 9, 2004 3:09:39am

Paul, according to you, bigots are people who criticize evil behavior. YES? So, do explain to us why evil behavior may not be commented on.

185 Ann  Sun, May 9, 2004 3:10:54am

#182:

"...since 9/11... since 9/11..."

Well, yeah. Idiot.

186 Luigi  Sun, May 9, 2004 3:13:00am

Why are these guys so motivated to prove we have a " war on Islam?" Isn't that the wrong question? Shouldn't the question be "is Islam at war with us?" It has been noted Islam has bloody borders. Wherever its civilization borders another, there is conflict. It is the same conflict, Jihad, in The Phillippines, bloody Checnya, Nigeria, Kashmir, Spain and elsewhere. In Palestine, the local neighborhood Jihad is packaged as the Intifadah.

187 merav  Sun, May 9, 2004 3:19:28am

#183, Gregory,

That's a grisly picture - looks like a frantic father with his injured son and a policeman. Of course I'm just guessing. And I didn't click on the rest of the slides because I just can't anymore. Last week, here, there was a horrible piguah (terrorist attack) that killed a pregnant mother and her four small daughters.

But I wouldn't expect a rational answer from the troll. He's obviously boiling in hatred. Injured kids to a terrorist supporter? Kinda like foul balls at a baseball game. Either trophies, or irrelevant, as long as they don't hit you directly.

188 Powderfinger  Sun, May 9, 2004 3:21:49am

#166 Paul

"naw, they're muslims, it's their fault and they deserve it."

Quotation marks are used when quoting another. They are not needed when you're making an original statement as above, even one so terribly ignorant.

wtf?! any word for the hundreds of thousands of muslim dead killed at the hands of non-muslims in chechnya?

Yeah, and copy Arafat would ya?

It's hard to be soverign when you are dead. War is not the answer for the weak. It will just get you killed.

189 Ann  Sun, May 9, 2004 3:27:09am

#186:

For the same reason a criminal cries racism in order to get sympathy.

Declaration of war on USA

190 Colt  Sun, May 9, 2004 3:27:48am

#183 Gregory

The OMON officer looks about fourteen...

OT, but Rumsfeld wasn't kidding when he said the news from Abu Ghraib was set to get worse:

America was braced last night for new allegations of torture in Iraq after military officials said that photographs apparently showing US soldiers beating an Iraqi prisoner nearly to death and having sex with a female PoW were about to be released.

The officials told the US television network NBC that other images showed soldiers "acting inappropriately with a dead body". A videotape, apparently made by US personnel, is said to show Iraqi guards raping young boys.

I'm disgusted enough with our troops, but if the "best" Iraqis are also paedophiles who are willing to rape the children of their own country, we might as well just leave now.

191 LC LaWedgie  Sun, May 9, 2004 3:27:57am

Ann -
Fareed Zakaria has made some sensible points in the past. Either somebody got to him or his spring snapped.

192 Colt  Sun, May 9, 2004 3:28:36am

Link for #190.

193 ShiksaGrrrl  Sun, May 9, 2004 3:37:41am

#75 Bubbaman


Got it all - screen captures, the .pdf, etc. Whoever needs it, let me know.

Can ya email it to me please?
I missed all of this ;-(

194 Mark Holland  Sun, May 9, 2004 3:38:29am

Briton trained as 9/11 hijacker

A FORMER waiter in a Manchester curry house was recruited by Al-Qaeda and trained as a hijacker in preparation for the September 11 attacks.
195 Ann  Sun, May 9, 2004 3:42:20am

191:
I'll read more of his articles.

196 ShiksaGrrrl  Sun, May 9, 2004 3:42:58am
Thats showing as the link to the pdf file that was up.

I don't have a reader so clicking it freezes my screen.

Anybody want to see if its still there ?

Still there.
Just grabbed it.

Is this the same page that this thread was about?
Since I missed it on Indymedia?

197 merav  Sun, May 9, 2004 3:50:06am

#196 shiksa grrrl,

I'm not sure what's displaying on that page, but if you want to read verbatim the original page, just track back on this thread to message #109.

198 paul  Sun, May 9, 2004 3:56:19am

"It's hard to be soverign when you are dead. War is not the answer for the weak. It will just get you killed."

Of course. Might makes right.

199 Powderfinger  Sun, May 9, 2004 4:01:31am
Of course. Might makes right.

Might makes victory, and the victor writes the history.

So, yeah.

200 Ed Moran:Abu This Place is a Neocon Disgrace!  Sun, May 9, 2004 4:07:02am

I don't know if this qualified as war time treason, as technically Congress hasn't passed a declaration of war.


Still, I'm pretty sure there is something in the Federal code that covers incitement to violence. I'd hope so, anyway.

IIRC, the Russians had pretty much left Chechnya but got back in after several devastating bomb attacks against apartment buildings.


But I'm open to a little educatin'

201 Ed Moran:Abu This Place is a Neocon Disgrace!  Sun, May 9, 2004 4:10:36am

OT
Indian Ocean Tropical Cyclone 01A remains weak and disorganized.


Closer to home, the Eastern Pacific Tropical Cyclone season starts in 1 week. (I don't think the Western North Pac season ever ends, although it peaks summer and autumn).


AS you may recall, Tropical Storm Allison of 2001 actually started to develop in the EastPac before drifting north across Tehuanepec and heading for Texas.

202 Ed Moran:Abu This Place is a Neocon Disgrace!  Sun, May 9, 2004 4:11:29am

BTW, what is the dictionary definition of a "Fifth Column"?

203 LC LaWedgie  Sun, May 9, 2004 4:12:17am

195 Ann -
I said "some sensible points" (should have capitalized that).

After all, he was a Dean supporter.
And Peter Jennings liked his book.

YEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGHHHH!

204 Ann  Sun, May 9, 2004 4:17:16am

#200

Federal Code

Will we apply it to those with "cultural differences"?

205 J.D.  Sun, May 9, 2004 4:21:47am
206 CheezNCrackers  Sun, May 9, 2004 4:21:47am

#47 Ringometer

I followed your link to a bunch of Spanish sites. I had no idea of how the Spanish actually thought. There seem to be quite a few Spanish that detest what their nation has become.

Enhorabuena!

207 Ann  Sun, May 9, 2004 4:23:46am

I like Section 2385.

208 J.D.  Sun, May 9, 2004 4:27:42am

OT
Wesley Clark on Meet the Press just said we need to "unload Negroponte" as Ambassador to Iraq.

209 ShiksaGrrrl  Sun, May 9, 2004 4:28:07am
No. But it may fix some buggers. Microsoft (I always wondered if that name refered to the BillG's equippment) is an adherent of security through obscurity. Often, SPs f**k up more than they fix. I wouldn't run xpee if they paid me, to tell you the truth. Well, sometimes I am paid to fix other people's xpees, but


Never understood why people hate XP so much!
I came from 2000 Pro and I still prefer XP.

I used it before it was out and granted, I dont think I would want to use an OS again before its released as there are just too many bugs to deal with and work around..............but if running XP properly, being careful about what you update, I have Ghost images of my drive that I no longer ever need to use. ;-)

XP Rocks ;-)

210 ShiksaGrrrl  Sun, May 9, 2004 4:29:43am

merav


thanks, yeah, missed that but did find the link to the actual PDF file and grabbed it ;-)

211 [Engineer]  Sun, May 9, 2004 4:40:27am

#190 Colt

I'm disgusted enough with our troops, but if the "best" Iraqis are also paedophiles who are willing to rape the children of their own country, we might as well just leave now.

Having sex with young boys is quite common in the Arab world and not our problem. Let the Iraqis handle it. All we need in Iraq is a stable governemnt, a free people and a good standard of living. Those things will have the effect we want on the other arab countries.

212 [Engineer]  Sun, May 9, 2004 4:42:11am

#209 ShiksaGrrrl

XP Rocks ;-)

Yes it does. Much better than the 2000 I use at work.

213 [Engineer]  Sun, May 9, 2004 4:44:16am

#202 Ed Moran:Abu This Place is a Neocon Disgrace!

fifth column n. A clandestine subversive organization working within a country to further an invading enemy's military and political aims. [First applied in 1936 to rebel sympathizers inside Madrid when four columns of rebel troops were attacking that city.] --fifth col“um·nism (k¼l“…m-n¹z”…m ) n. --fifth columnist n.

214 Mark Holland  Sun, May 9, 2004 4:44:28am

Like when Arabs nationalised the spice trade and the European merchants just went around them beneath Africa, Honda have developed a 100mph, 80bhp car powered just by water

215 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Sun, May 9, 2004 4:47:09am

190 Colt

Here's the first story I'd caught about the Iraqi guards: NBC: Worst Abuse at Al Ghraib Done by Iraqi Recruits

216 [Engineer]  Sun, May 9, 2004 4:59:43am

#214 Mark Holland

Like when Arabs nationalised the spice trade and the European merchants just went around them beneath Africa, Honda have developed a 100mph, 80bhp car powered just by water

It is a hydrogen-powered car with the hydrogen produced by cracking water with power from a hydroelectric plant. Not a big deal at all. The rest of the story is just BS.

Now, if we build 1,000 nuclear plants to produce the power, tear down and rebuild all of our IC engine plants, replace all of our filling stations, modify all the pipelines, we could do it!

217 Mark Holland  Sun, May 9, 2004 5:03:36am

216 [Engineer]

Honda's car is a start, small acorns and all that.

218 Tiburon  Sun, May 9, 2004 5:08:01am

OT: - I dunno whether anyone's picked up on this here, yet, but I note that the Athens 2004 Olympic and Paralympic Committee has found a wonderful solution to the struggle over Jerusalem as the Unified Capital of the State of Israel (which State is also delivering major security and counter-intelligence information, to the Games and Greece, as per Arutz Sheva).

Evidently, the New Capital of Israel shall be "Asterix"!!

Brilliant Move!

219 [Engineer]  Sun, May 9, 2004 5:09:42am

#217 Mark Holland

Honda's car is a start, small acorns and all that.

Yes and I would love to have one.

Stories like that piss me off. The car does not run on water and the writer kept talking about the hydroelectric plant that runs on rainfall. Duh, what does he think all hydroelectric plants run on?

220 Colt  Sun, May 9, 2004 5:09:52am

#211 [Engineer]

I know it's common. But I do wonder how a country who's police will, given the opportunity, bugger small children can ever be a success.

But you're right. It's one of those cultural 'quirks' that are part of the territory.

221 Tiburon  Sun, May 9, 2004 5:10:24am

I've sent this off to a close friend who is a high level referee for the Paralympics, and will be going.

222 Colt  Sun, May 9, 2004 5:14:46am

Wow. Terje Laarsen is completely delusional: Laarsen: Oslo has not failed

Laarsen who met with President Moshe Katsav at Beit Hanassi on Sunday told reporters that the Road Map proposed by US President George W. Bush is the logical continuation and consistent in its approach with the Oslo process. "The Road Map is rooted in the Oslo process," he asserted.

He's right about that, and it's one of the reasons why it won't work.

223 FabioC.  Sun, May 9, 2004 5:14:48am

Slightly OT:

Got five in Italy: Florence's imam and 4 Tunisians recruited by him to go to Iraq and attack the Italian soldiers there.
Police says they have dismantled a cell of Ansar Al-Islam.

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]


In the meanwhile, the Iraqi terrorists lose no occasion to kill and maim Iraqi civilians:
[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

224 halldor  Sun, May 9, 2004 5:16:34am

Re Kadyrov: there's a video link on the Euronews website. Go to:

[Link: 195.248.4.147...]

225 tipper  Sun, May 9, 2004 5:24:06am

Sorry, havent time to read the full thread.
Is this what you are after?
Majdur Travail
[Link: www.google.com...]

226 Pickled British Blog  Sun, May 9, 2004 5:32:59am

Anti-Americanism is often more a religious cult, than political viewpoint.

Here in England, when people start their rants, their eyes glaze over, they speak in tounges (awful cliches), they wave their arms about, and froth at the mouth.

A few weeks ago, a friend started into a fit, I didn't know if he needed medical attention. He was just ranting about America.

Its a human condition. My theory is that life is very difficult and complicated, there must be a switch in the human brain that enables those without the time or intelligence to deal with these problems, to find someone to blame and thus 'solve' the problem.

British Pickle Blog

227 halldor  Sun, May 9, 2004 5:39:08am

MOSCOW, May 9 (Reuters) - Chechen president Akhmad Kadyrov, assassinated in a bomb attack on Sunday, had been a top target of anti-Russian guerrillas since he abandoned armed separatist rebellion to seek a peace within Russia.

Kadyrov, 52, bearded and thickset often wearing a traditional sheepskin hat, interrupted his studies in a Muslim university in Oman in 1991 to join the rebellion at home and rose to the key position of mufti, a respected spiritual leader.

In that position he proclaimed a jihad (holy war) against Russia in 1995. The following year Russian troops withdrew from Chechnya after an agreement that ended a bloody and, for Moscow, humiliating war.

But three years later he accused rebel leaders of fostering militant Islam and switched over to the side of President Vladimir Putin, then Russian prime minister, who launched a fresh war in Chechnya in October 1999.

Kadyrov, from then on "enemy of the nation number one" for the rebels, was elected regional president in October under a Kremlin peace plan and maintained a tough grip on Chechnya.

In past weeks he had been campaigning for the withdrawal of most Russian forces and handing over the formal control over Chechnya to his armed supporters.

After siding with Russians he survived a series of assassinations, including one by a woman suicide bomber.

But he was killed in a bomb attack on Sunday in a sports stadium during celebrations marking the Soviet Union's 1945 victory over Nazi Germany. At least 13 other people also died.

"Kadyrov passed away on the day of our national holiday and he passed away undefeated," a solemn-looking Putin told Kadyrov's son Ramzan at a Kremlin
meeting.

"He was a truly heroic person," Putin added in televised comments. "By his activities he convincingly proved that the bandits and the people cannot be put on the same footing."

OPPONENTS IN RUSSIA

Apart from the rebels, Kadyrov had many opponents among Russian nationalists, who believed he was given too much power with too little control in his home province.

Over the past few months he had encouraged a series of voluntary surrenders by the rebels, many of whom later joined his security forces.

Kadyrov's opponents in Moscow suspected him of creating his own military force, overseen by Ramzan. But they also warned that his recruitment of ex-rebels exposed his entourage to rebel "moles."

Born in 1951 in the Central Asian republic of Kazakhstan, where Soviet dictator Josef Stalin had exiled the entire Chechen nation on unproven charges of collaborating with the Nazi invaders, Kadyrov studied at a series of Islamic colleges.

In 1989, while Chechnya was still under Soviet rule, he set up the first Islamic institute in Russia's North Caucasus and played a prominent role in the religious revival of the independent-minded region.

In 1994 to 1995 he fought against Russian forces in rebel units until rebel leader Dzhokhar Dudayev appointed him supreme mufti.

In 1996 Kadyrov took part in peace talks with Moscow, which ended in the Russian withdrawal from Chechnya. He finally broke with the rebels after they raided the southern Russian region of Dagestan in August 1999,
provoking a new intervention which ended the short-lived Chechen independence.

"(Russia) gave us everything that is Chechnya, (saying) do with it what you will, but we did not use it properly," he told Reuters in an interview, when asked why he changed sides.

Putin took the Chechen leader with him on a trip to the United Nations last year and regularly appeared with him on nationwide television.

228 Bubbaman  Sun, May 9, 2004 5:43:21am

If Charles wants/needs the files - I'll be happy to email them. I don't have a web hosting site at present.

229 CrusaderGirl  Sun, May 9, 2004 5:46:20am

Totally OT, but did you see this link from Drudge?

Los Angeles Times Editor John S. Carroll told an audience that "the media industry has been infested by the rise of pseudo-journalists who go against journalism's long tradition to serve the public with accurate information.."

"All over the country there are offices that look like newsrooms and there are people in those offices that look for all the world just like journalists, but they are not practicing journalism," he said. "They regard the audience with a cold cynicism. They are practicing something I call a pseudo-journalism, and they view their audience as something to be manipulated."

Reading that, you think: someone in the newspaper industry is actually calling themselves for their atrocious, religiously-clueless, economically-socialist, America-hating coverage of almost every news topic of significance today, right?

No.

In a scathing critique of Fox News and some talk show hosts, such as Bill O'Reilly, Carroll said they were a "different breed of journalists" who misled their audience while claiming to inform them. He said they did not fit into the long legacy of journalists who got their facts right and respected and cared for their audiences.

After reading the Washington Post today and reading something like this treecle, I am certain now that there are few, very few, editors of major US papers who get it.

They're lost.

230 Ben B  Sun, May 9, 2004 5:47:58am

#194 Mark Holland

Yes, I read the Times article about the Manchester waiter who was recruited by al Q in an Oldham mosque. I worked in Oldham a few years ago. It's a terribly sad place now. Balkanized. The only possible salvation is the education of women.

231 Radian  Sun, May 9, 2004 5:51:09am

214: That is a paradigm shift. Once that technology comes online the world will be a different place. They are running it on rain water.

If that technology pans out it would be a gift from g-d. The shitty oil regiemes would collapse. I can thing of a few nations that export oil that are not america hating scum. My honda stock would go up..

Indymedia has and allways will be a cesspool filled with worthless human sewage. I hope they do try to attack a millitary post, just so they can get themselves shot. A little clorine for the gene pool. I used to taunt them by telling them to martryr themselves at starbucks.

232 [Engineer]  Sun, May 9, 2004 5:57:10am

#229 CrusaderGirl

Los Angeles Times Editor John S. Carroll told an audience that "the media industry has been infested by the rise of pseudo-journalists who go against journalism's long tradition to serve the public with accurate information.."

This from the LA Times? Give me a break! Next to the NY Times, it is one of the worse papers in the country.

I think the real story here is that they are watching their readers go to other news outlets and they are losing their power to shape the public discourse.

233 Abu Khadija  Sun, May 9, 2004 5:57:37am

The document that started all this will be found here:

[Link: internet-haganah.info...]

Note that it is *not* available on any of the other Haganah mirrors.

234 [Engineer]  Sun, May 9, 2004 6:03:06am

#231 Radian

If that technology pans out it would be a gift from g-d.

The technology of using rainwater to make electric power is only a 100 years old and the greens want us to get rid of all of it.

Now, the hydrogen-powered car that will do 100mph is an advancement, but we don't have the power sources to produce hydrogen that way.

235 Pax Americana  Sun, May 9, 2004 6:08:02am

#234 Engineer et al

I'm with you all, I'd love to have a high performing hydrogen powered car.

But if I hear one more story about how hydrogen is the "fuel of the future" or some such nonsense, I might just need a white jacket extra long in the arms.

Let's all say it together now: "Hydrogen is an energy storage medium, nothing else!!"

I'd love to see the LLL's faces if they ever learned that cracking water for hydrogen would most likely be powered by coal burning power plants. Ha Ha!

236 TalkinKamel  Sun, May 9, 2004 6:10:38am

#37 Yehudit

Like you and Lileks, I am worried that there's going to be an upsurge in left-wing violence. Unfortunately, at this point, with so much of the left having gone around the bend, and the media whipping them to a further frenzy by constantly running pictures of the abused Iraqi prisoners, I don't think they're going to wait until election time. I'm afraid they're going to start it in the months before, to make sure we don't even think of re-electing evil "Bushitler." The next few months are going to be all too interesting.

I hope I'm wrong about this.

I also hope I'm wrong about my suspicion that, since so many of them, like Troll Paul, seem to feel such a deep, almost maudlin attachment to the Arab world, and such a deep, irrational hatred of both America and Israel, that many leftists might start converting to Islam in the months to come, and begin to carry out Jihad against enemy America.

237 [Engineer]  Sun, May 9, 2004 6:11:19am

#235 Pax Americana

I'd love to see the LLL's faces if they ever learned that cracking water for hydrogen would most likely be powered by coal burning power plants. Ha Ha!

Or nuclear.

238 Scott Parker  Sun, May 9, 2004 6:14:11am

I still could swear this stuff is a Photoshop framejob.

Look at the "soldier" in the picture that the link now leads to. He's wearing a red/white/blue flag patch on desert camos. Aren't such patches usually recolored to not stand out (black/brown/green)?

Are we being played?

239 Tiburon  Sun, May 9, 2004 6:18:00am

What's needed is to debunk the tall tales of 'horrible nuclear dangers' as promoted by the watermelons (green on the outside, red on the...) and institute a crash program for North American nuclear plant construction, ASAP due to the long ramp up times.

And a continental MOX Fuel Cycle rather than PAYING to ship our valuable nuclear "wastes" off to Europe and Russia for reprocessing for THEIR plants...

THEN we can begin talking about a 'hydrogen economy' - not before...

240 Radian  Sun, May 9, 2004 6:19:17am

[engineer]

All the above beats giving money to people who hate us. All the anti nuke people are so full of shit. I grew up next to a reactor, no incidents other than standard work place injuries. Good fishing in the warm water on the lake. The navy has been running reactors for 40 years with no failures. Creating the gas is nothing new. I've seen it in 18 wheeler storage tanks before. It is a national security issue as well.

I run B20 in my truck and If I could get B100 I would spend the money to convert the engine. So does NCDOT and the millitary is beginning to see the light. 20% less money goes to fund people who hate us.

241 Tiburon  Sun, May 9, 2004 6:20:01am

Addendum #239 That was mostly Billy Clinton's doing, if I remember...thanx again, Billy!

242 Tiburon  Sun, May 9, 2004 6:25:30am

Here's a quick overview of the Mixed Oxide fuel process, a vast resource that's just being tossed away thanks Greenie Indymidiot types...

243 Poitiers-Lepanto  Sun, May 9, 2004 6:58:11am

I read this thread only now and I think that these news are the worst piece of info I got in the last year: the left has shifted from fifth columnism to direct organization of the war against Freedom.

I saw this coming, as many others have, but I thought it would have taken some years to get ripe.

Instead here we are.
And the fact that they dare to show this message means that they have ALREADY discussed this line of action.

A lot of work more for the FBI and other Agencies in the next future.

And a lot of time less to prepare to defend Freedom in every neighborhood.

The redfascists are going to pay for this (further) treason.

244 walstib  Sun, May 9, 2004 7:04:19am

If not already posted, here are two excellent articles from the Jersualem Post on oil, Islamic terrorism and the world economy:

Defeating Oil by Caroline Glick

Infidels Out by Pinchas Landau

If you can't get in because you're not a member, become one. It's free.

Imagine that - we not only have to defeat the Islamists abroad and now at home, we also have to defeat the senseless LLL who have become their pawns right here at home! Sheesh!

245 Scott Parker  Sun, May 9, 2004 7:04:27am

#110

No, no pet food. You wouldn't want loyal American dogs and cats getting sick now would you?

246 [Engineer]  Sun, May 9, 2004 7:09:20am

#241 Tiburon

Addendum #239 That was mostly Billy Clinton's doing, if I remember...thanx again, Billy!

IIRC, that was Jimmy Carter's mess.

Reproccessing also solves the waste problem.

247 Iron Fist  Sun, May 9, 2004 7:13:09am

#229 CrusaderGirl,

I've given up completely on the mainstream media. They are, for the most part, nothing but a fifth column of enemy propaganda.

[SPIT]

248 C-Low  Sun, May 9, 2004 7:19:09am

Now can we question thier Patriotism?

Once that is answered Now can we Deport these Aholes en-mass?

249 Poitiers-Lepanto  Sun, May 9, 2004 7:36:52am

I hope everybody will forgive me for the little sermon, but I would really like to remind us , while we hear these scary news about the redfascists, how important it is, and will be in the next future, that we defend and extend the Second Amendment right to have and carry weapons.
The diffused insurgency that the left will try to build in the next years will have its best answer in a diffused counterinsurgency and in the vigilant watch of all the Citizens, but these would be empty words without the Second Amendment.
It is not by mere chance that the large majority of the demonrats tries to limit, reduce, delete, this basic civil right. They know that subversion will never win if We, the People, have arms.

Think about this. A lot.

250 BarCodeKing  Sun, May 9, 2004 8:02:48am

"Violently and covertly"? Pussies.

251 Martel-Sobieski  Sun, May 9, 2004 8:04:14am

#1) Anyone with a brain knows that if you really mean to do harm, you don't forewarn the enemy. Indymedia are either complete retards or, . . . ok, well they are complete retards. (No offense to actual retards)

#2) IF (and it's a mighty big if) anyone is actually prosecuted for this, it would be a net loss of intelligence. Better to lay off of it and see where it leads. Probably a few independent wack-jobs taking pot-shots. If it turns out that there is an actual organized jihad I'm positive that it will be swiftly dealt with.

#3) If you wanted to ensure that GW Bush is re-elected, just start some of that violent jihad bullshit and see what happens. You want to see REAL backlash? You want to see muslim devils beaten and shot in the streets? Mosques on fire? (mmm, toasty!), You want to see a U.S. Reconquista? Bring it on assholes. We'll teach you the meaning of a good-ol'-timey ASS-WHIPPIN'

#4) Use your imagination.

252 rosh  Sun, May 9, 2004 8:14:59am

Good Morning (for 3 more minutes) and happy Mother's Day to all you mothers.
I just came across this thread and have to add my little morsels to the stew:
al-masakin is one of the categories of the poor to whom zakat is due: the indigent (homeless), and the dude has stated elsewhere that he is "as homeless now as in 2001" -- the use of a cellphone jibes with that
The PDF in question contains custom tags:
Company: University of Arizona Library
SourceModified: D:20040507020653

253 BarCodeKing  Sun, May 9, 2004 8:15:46am

Re: #229, Crusader Girl, I read the same article and thought about folks like Jason Blair, etc. Not to mention Scheer of the L.A. Times. Journalistic ethics, my foot! A bozo who lives in a glass house like the L.A. Times shouldn't be throwing stones at ANYONE else!

254 Outsider  Sun, May 9, 2004 8:16:13am

FWIW, "Al-Masakin" is Arabic for "the poor ones".

255 Poitiers-Lepanto  Sun, May 9, 2004 8:19:53am

#251 Martel-Sobieski

I agree on #2) etc. but not on #1).

Propaganda is a very important part of every subversive organization and we have seen many cases in history in which the "return" of this kind of (apparently silly) warnings has been greater than the damage they cause to the insurgents.
The organization earns militants and money by hidden funders when it comes up with this kind of direct call to arms.
In this case it is even a signal, a notice to other parts of the redfascist movement, a kind of an "order" about tactics and strategy.

I would take it seriously, it is, at least, an important change.

256 Geepers  Sun, May 9, 2004 8:23:27am

BarCodeKing (#253),

You mean you don't feel that the LA Times daily articles denouncing Arnold for inappropriately touching female cast members was the pinnacle of Journalist integrity? Come on? ;-)

257 Iron Fist  Sun, May 9, 2004 8:26:50am

#249 Poitiers-Lepanto,

100%

You might want to get in a good martial arts program as well. It takes a lot of work and a lot of commitment (I'd normally be at the dojo right now, but it's Mother's Day :-), but in the end it is worth all of the sweat and pain.

Stark naked I am still armed. I am the most expensive (and difficult to maintain) weapon I own. The cool thing is that as long as I continue to practice, I can continue to improve my abilities.

I’ve got the rest of my life to work on it :-)

258 Martel-Sobieski  Sun, May 9, 2004 8:28:48am

#211 Engineer

Having sex with young boys is quite common in the Arab world and not our problem. Let the Iraqis handle it. All we need in Iraq is a stable governemnt, a free people and a good standard of living. Those things will have the effect we want on the other arab countries.

But it IS our problem, it's the root of our problem. The utter moral vacuum of depravity which is Islam and arab "culture" is the world's problem.

Islam and tribal arab "culture" reinforce these prison-gang mores. Institutionalized mysogyny, polygamy, unequal divorce rights, sexual repression, and this disgusting acquiesence in pedophilia are all moral outrages that lead to the universal social pathologies which plague us everywhere that Islam borders on Civilzation.

Marginalized, traumatized males with no hope of ever marrying or of even having a "normal" relationship with a female are the prime fodder for jihad. Why on earth do these people hold thier lives so cheap? How else do you convince a person to blow himself up with the promise of "72 virgin houris in the sky" ??? WTF???

There will never be progress in this war until Islam is discredited, defeated and destroyed.

No only does it foster these sexual pathologies, the "ethics" of Islam (if you can call it that) are also antithetical to anything which is recognized as "morality" in the civilized parts of the world. Injunctions to kill the infidels, conversion by the sword, enforced "virtue", the call to lie, cheat, steal, defraud, enslave and kill non-muslims, "justice" which is utterly partial to muslim males, death sentence for apostates, etc, etc,. All of these memes render these societies unstable and vulnerable to the lure of power through jihad. These moral failings need to be addressed, and cannot be addressed except by adressing thier source, islam and the (mein) koran (mpf).

There will never be progress in this war until Islam is discredited, defeated and destroyed.

The fact that islamikazes find kindred spirits in the american and euro LLL just goes to illustrate who
they are and what they are.

Unfortunately, even the utter and complete destruction and discrediting of thier marxist utopia wasn't enough to dissuade these losers.

259 BarCodeKing  Sun, May 9, 2004 8:38:25am

Check out HughHewitt.com, where Hugh takes the L.A. Times editor's hypocrisy to task:

HughHewitt.com

260 C-Low  Sun, May 9, 2004 8:51:14am

#251 Martel-Sobieski

I agree totally but I don't think they are going to go hot for that very reason. It would immediatly answer the "Can we Should we Do we have to" question. They would reep the worlwind and would lose it would be a short inserection (flash in the pan).
However if they don't jump right now they pretty much got things on lock down if they hold thier cool. The Main Stream Media is in lock and step with their propoganda machine and they are having an affect on the masses. They are in total control of Hollywood most all of the News outlets TV, Cable short Fox, and Paper mostly, exepting Radio only. They havent just torn out the page but the whole damm book from Gerbol's "tell a lie enough and it becomes truth".
These are the people that think thier is enough evidence to do a story on Cheney and Halburton conspiracy but not enough to do a story on the fact that Saddam met with Al-Queda opperatives in East Europe and openly supported terrorist and Jihad when it fit his own personal goals. (the enemy of my enemy is my freind) Kinda like the US selling weapons to Saddam and Iran during the Iran Iraq war To see two enemys kill eachother and help them do it better at the same time what a Blast.
Thier ledership wont go hot until they lose thier grip on the propoganda machine they have formed.

Where is Mcarthy when a country needs him?

261 [Engineer]  Sun, May 9, 2004 8:52:32am

#258 Martel-Sobieski

There will never be progress in this war until Islam is discredited, defeated and destroyed.

I have slowly been coming to that view. However, Islam is not the cause of their sexual habits, those predate Islam. Indeed, Islam is against some of them.

My point is, we are not in Iraq to "fix" their society any more than we need to achieve our aims. A stable, popular secular government is what we want. Remember that we have one that, for a hundred years, indorsed slavery.

262 urthshu  Sun, May 9, 2004 8:58:07am

243

the left has shifted from fifth columnism to direct organization of the war against Freedom.

I don't really fear the Left all that much. In the old days, maybe, but this new crowd of loudmouths couldn't organise a decent bakesale, much less than an organised widespread underground movement. That would have been child's play to the old Lefties. They're Bonghit Socialists.

Ironfist: I did Wing Chun for while. What do you do?

263 Colt  Sun, May 9, 2004 9:11:22am

#261 [Engineer]

My point is, we are not in Iraq to "fix" their society any more than we need to achieve our aims. A stable, popular secular government is what we want.

Martel-Sobieski is right. Islamofascism is the end result of Islam and Arab culture. Unless those things are altered/destroyed, we'll be back in Iraq within a matter of years, or holding back the Iraqis with American weapons until a Jimmy Carter comes along as president.

So either we fix the Arabs or destroy them.

264 fred  Sun, May 9, 2004 9:13:29am

anyone have a screen shot of the article?

265 Iron Fist  Sun, May 9, 2004 9:17:18am

#262 urthshu,

I train for rank in Isshinryu and Arnis. I also train in Wudang Baugua, Tai Chi, Torite Jutsu, and a bit of everything else (i.e. some kung fu, some jujitsu, etc. I will learn from whomever will teach me), but I'm not working on rank in those arts.

Wing Chun is a good form. From what I know of it, it would mesh well with Isshinryu. My kung fu experience has mostly been Shaolin Tiger-Crane, which also blends well with both of my primary arts. If I didn't have to work for a living...

:-P

266 [Engineer]  Sun, May 9, 2004 9:20:13am

#263 Colt

we'll be back in Iraq within a matter of years

Who said we are leaving? I personally know that we are building permanent facilities for our military. We will have major forces in Iraq for the foreseeable future.

My point is that we don’t have to have a “nice” society in Iraq, just a secular popular government and a free market. And I understand that the free market is going quite well. I have heard that over a million new cars have been imported since we took over.

267 Geepers  Sun, May 9, 2004 9:20:17am

Iron Fist, What'd ya think of Van Hellsing?

268 Colt  Sun, May 9, 2004 9:22:46am

#266 [Engineer]

I mean, as soon as we leave, unless Arab society is altered, we'll have to go back.

269 Alon  Sun, May 9, 2004 9:23:36am

IndyMedia: "Military targets include Synoguges, Jewish kindergartens and Day Schools, etc. etc."

270 zombie  Sun, May 9, 2004 9:24:01am

#258  Martel-Sobieski: can I frame your post and hang it on the wall? Brilliant! You ARE the Charles Martel of the 21st Century.

271 Tim in PA  Sun, May 9, 2004 9:31:17am

Let 'em bring it on. "recruits, cadets, marines, etc. " are not by any means "soft targets." I take this personally, because while I am no longer in any one of those categories, many of my friends are.

If anyone answers Indymedia's call to violence, they will quickly discover that we have far more weapons and training than they do.

I've put nearly a thousand rounds downrange, just this week.

272 Richard  Sun, May 9, 2004 9:35:13am

Just to let you know, this isn't a conservative/liberal issue ... I consider myself a liberal on a great many issues (and could probably argue all day with most people here :-) ), but if this Indymedia posting is accurate (and isn't some perverse hoax) I condemn it wholeheartedly. True liberalism, in my opinion, is about compassion and love (and being reasonable!).

273 Geepers  Sun, May 9, 2004 9:36:08am

Tim in PA (#271),

Dude, dude, dude. You're not allowed to fight back.

274 kozak  Sun, May 9, 2004 9:37:39am

Google search on the phone # 520-275-0285

Israeli Apartheid Condemned at U of A Lecture : Arizona Indymedia
... View article without comments Israeli Apartheid Condemned at U of A Lecture by
al-masakin • Thursday April 01, 2004 at 03:03 PM (520) 275-0285 Tucson, AZ. ...
arizona.indymedia.org/news/2004/04/16997_comment.p hp - 24k - Cached - Similar pages

Kunnie-Gibbs Lecture Made Page 1 Tehran Times : Arizona Indymedia
... View article without comments Kunnie-Gibbs Lecture Made Page 1 Tehran Times by
al-masakin • Saturday April 03, 2004 at 12:52 PM (520) 275-0285 Tucson, AZ. ...
arizona.indymedia.org/news/2004/04/17062_comment.p hp - 19k - Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from arizona.indymedia.org ]

Shinning Path Leader to Stand Trial in March : SF Bay Area ...
... 03, 2004 at 11:30 AM. Call (520) 275-0285 Tucson, AZ. ... 03, 2004 at 11:30
AM. Call (520) 275-0285 Tucson, AZ. download PDF (40.3 kibibytes). ...
[Link: www.indybay.org...] - 24k - Cached - Similar pages

Josepg Green Refuted : SF Bay Area Indymedia
Josepg Green Refuted. by al-masakin Thursday, Mar. 11, 2004 at 4:08 PM.
(520) 275-0285 Tucson, AZ. ... 11, 2004 at 4:08 PM. (520) 275-0285 Tucson, AZ. ...
[Link: www.indybay.org...] - 25k - Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from [Link: www.indybay.org...] ]

Epitaph of Stonewall Sharon :::Fiction::: : SF Bay Area Indymedia
... 29, 2004 at 10:10 AM. (520) 275-0285 Tucson, AZ. :::New Fiction::: By Majdur Travail. ... 29,
2004 at 10:10 AM. (520) 275-0285 Tucson, AZ. download PDF (30.1 kibibytes). ...
bayarea.indymedia.org/news/2004/03/1675552.php - 22k - Cached - Similar pages

portland imc - 2004.02.29 - The Damian Garcia Murder Revisited
... homepage: [Link: majdur.htmlplanet.com...] phone: (520) 275-0285 address: *I do freelance
writing, criticism and journalism*. add a comment on this article.
portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/02/281724.shtml - 33k - Cached - Similar pages

portland imc - 2004.04.01 - 54 DHKP-C and Anti-Imperialist Camp ...
... revolutionaries on the soil of this land," it said. homepage: [Link: majdur.htmlplanet.com...]
phone: (520) 275-0285. add a comment on this article.
portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/04/284759.shtml - 34k - Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from portland.indymedia.org ]

275 Iron Fist  Sun, May 9, 2004 9:39:31am

#267 Geepers,

I enjoyed it, and think it is worth a matinee. It's really a dark comedy, way over the top, but it had some plot twists that I really didn't expect.

If you've got kids, it's a very kid-friendly movie. Cool monster special effects, lots of relatively clean violence (it is an action movie :-), very little foul language ("I'm a friar. I can curse, damnit!" :-).

If you want deep, meaningful plots, lots of profound dialog, etc., you won't like this movie. OTOH, if that's what you are looking for, why are you watching a movie that brings together Dracula, Frankenstein's monster, and the Wolfman to begin with?

In short, I thought it was a fun (and funny) flick.

276 Colt  Sun, May 9, 2004 9:47:16am

#272 Richard

Just to let you know, this isn't a conservative/liberal issue

I'd like to believe that, but most of your political representatives, thinkers and journalists are conveying the opposite.

277 urthshu  Sun, May 9, 2004 9:57:40am

265 Ironfist

Cool! I'm going to be doing Arnis soonish, I think. We've alot of Isshinryu up here. I'm not a superfighter tough guy or anything, just like it alot. I think WC meshes best with the FMAs tho, due to similarities in facing & the gate theory- it seems they trade on the same 'body mapping principles'

278 Geepers  Sun, May 9, 2004 9:57:49am

Iron Fist (#275),

Thanks.

OTOH, if that's what you are looking for, why are you watching a movie that brings together Dracula, Frankenstein's monster, and the Wolfman to begin with?

[sigh]

When will someone make an honest movie about Frankenstein, Dracula and the Wolfman? :-Þ

Ever seen Kentucky Fried Movie? Dudes younger bother's keeping-out-of-trouble alias was Frank Dracman.

279 smoot  Sun, May 9, 2004 10:09:52am

By "unarmed military targets," we also mean Jews! Yes, those bastards are evil because of their religion and because they might happen to support Israel, so do whatever you like to them. By the way, we're not anti-Semites, and accusing us as such is wrong.

280 C-Low  Sun, May 9, 2004 10:13:54am

Richard

True liberalism, in my opinion, is about compassion and love
Smoke another

I got one question thou?
When do you finally choose to give up on Compassion and Love?
BEFORE OR AFTER the enemy kills or conquers you?

Reality is not pretty not fair it is just reality. Wether you like it or not War and fighting is a necessity in our world. And even thou it may not be fair it is always better to attack and kill your enemy when it is still a unfair fight and we have a huge advantage and can dominate easily win the war.
Example:
Cancer when found early can be cut out or treated not to serious. However wait until the cancer grows to the point were your body is weak and you end up losing limbs huge chunks of body long treatments painful agonizing in the extreme even Death or loss

281 DP111  Sun, May 9, 2004 1:22:32pm

Are these people Americans. I cannot believe what I read. For them to advocate such acts when the US is at war, must surely be a treasonous offence.
They shouldnt be shot though; just stripped of the citizenship of the country they hate and shipped to a country of their choice or to Afghanistan or Somalia, if they cant find a country.

282 DP111  Sun, May 9, 2004 1:28:05pm

And to lighten things, here is the latest in French haute coutier (posted it sometime ago, but its still good for a laugh)

[Link: www.sosfrance.com...]

Lots more of this on the site.

283 rosh  Sun, May 9, 2004 1:50:21pm

Majnun Travail appears to be a retired biology teacher named Thomas P. Murray, according to this maoist in malmo who listed 30 of his cyber-personalities: google groups posting
He may or may not be acceptable with the indymedia crowd. One arizona indymedia comment was "If you are a peacenic poser, and hate Israel - go back to your hate groups and leave us alone."

The trouble with the indymedia concept, and with liberalism in general (here's where I'm getting in on the exchange between Richard and C-Low), is that it is a sitting duck for anyone wishing to take advantage of it to further aims that certainly do not include compassion and love.

You can't turn your back on the value of compassion and love just because reality seems to be forcing us to abandon the idea in the realm of politics.
Trouble is, desire to make compassion and love a reality in public life leaves you wide open and defenseless to marxist-leninist troglodytes who have no concept of the value of a human life.

How many people did Stalin's big ideas condemn to death? He ordered classes of people to be shot just for being "rich peasants" or belonging to any other class he suddenly deemed threatening. In 1937 he caused to be killed 90 percent of the public prosecutors in the provinces.

That's the reality of hard leftism. It will always turn out that way if left to its natural course. And hard leftism sidles up to liberalism, which sidles up to people whose admirable compassion won't allow them to trust or try to work within a capitalist system.
Add into the mix the entirely different and yet related threat from islamism, which preys on the same leftist/liberal willingness to be inclusive and compassionate and need to avoid conflict above all else, and you got trouble right here in river city folks.

Look here, if I was a kid being approached by a suspicious man, and I took shelter behind another guy, but that guy tried to hand me over to my possible attacker because the other man had managed to arouse his compassion before I could make my case and he wanted to avoid conflict, I'd say that guy let me down. I'd say what he did was wrong. Wouldn't you?

Real compassion doesn't let itself be co-opted by people with evil agendas.
/ramble off

284 DP111  Sun, May 9, 2004 1:54:10pm

164 Paul

You forgot Sudan. The unrecognised genocide of Christians and Animist in south Sudan ranks with the killing fields of Cambodia. But atleast the Khmer rouge are gone. The Islamist govt of Sudan thoiugh is still here and conducting genocide but this time against black muslims.

285 rosh  Sun, May 9, 2004 2:09:24pm

281 DP111
Are these people Americans? Well they would seem to be communists.
A little further reserach and the man in Malmo who is "exposing" the guy who posted the stuff on indymedia is himself "exposed" as a liar etc.
1996 post about Rolf Martens

Man, this communist-maoist marxist-leninist hall of mirrors stuff is enervating. Kafkaesque.

286 rumdude  Sun, May 9, 2004 2:13:54pm

One stupid post and all of you are up in arms! Damn every Democrat, every liberal with the words of this one person! Fire up they lynch mob, round up the witches, light up the bonfires!

It says a lot about your state of mind. The abject fury and irrationality you have worked yourself into is a quite a sight to behold.

You people are a hoot! Comical, yet scary at the same time...

Remember anyone could have done that post.

287 zulubaby  Sun, May 9, 2004 3:25:42pm
Remember anyone could have done that post.

Someone like you, perhaps?

288 DANEgerus  Sun, May 9, 2004 3:42:49pm

This was not 'one' or an 'isolated' or an exceptional example of the sentiment of Indymedia...

It is additionally tedious to be smeared as a group when in fact LGF and it's readers have simply tried to expose this pattern of excess...

It isn't dissent to advocate violence against innocents... it isn't patriotism to advocate for causes that hurt Americans... it isn't activism to target innocents for death to advance an unpopular political agenda.

I would of course feel differently if the next terrorist act would only kill and maim the appeasers and the anti-American apologists for terror... not because I wish them harm but their activism would then only be revealed as putting they-themselves at risk...

But...

They are in such minority I am obligated to defend them as well by supporting those willing to take risks for us all...

289 Lumpy  Sun, May 9, 2004 10:36:09pm

you think this is bad you need to go over to shiachat.com. its a Us based shia forum. that type of indymedia incitement is a daily thing over there.

290 Jim  Mon, May 10, 2004 2:30:28pm

I agree with you that these kinds of comments are pretty juvenile, but no less so than Charles saying that the treatment of the Iraqi prisoners "wasn't torture." With all due respect, that statement is just stupid.

291 V the K  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:08:06am

One man's torture is another man's fraternity prank is another man's $300-an-hour fantasy at Heidi Fleiss's house. I thought libs were supposed to be open-minded and capable of seeing all sides of an issue.


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