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-RetweetIslamic Snuff Film

Tue, May 11, 2004 at 3:45:40 pm PDT

The video of Nick Berg’s murder is one of the most demonic things I’ve ever seen. It’s available here: Northeast Intelligence Network. (The site is getting heavy traffic and is occasionally down.)

It opens with Berg sitting on a plastic chair, reciting his own name and the names of his parents and family members. The scene changes and he’s tied up on the floor in front of five masked mujahideen, as one reads a long droning Arabic statement from a piece of paper. The audio is a few seconds ahead of the video; suddenly you hear a chorus of screams and shouts that don’t match the video. Then, as the yelling and keening intensifies, the one who read the statement puts away the paper, pulls a long knife out of his shirt, leaps onto Nick Berg and begins sawing his head off. Another one jumps on Nick’s back and pins his arms as he dies. The others caper and dance, calling out “Allahu Akhbar!”

The screaming and gagging is nightmarish. And it’s not quick.

The video ends with one of these creatures holding up Berg’s head while the camera pans in for closeups of the head and body. And the lake of blood.

I’m describing this in detail because I don’t want anyone to watch this without being really prepared.

When the Daniel Pearl video was making the rounds on the web, I refused to post a link because it was so soul-wrenching that I thought people didn’t need to see it. I thought September 11 was a big enough shock to the American public that we wouldn’t dare go back to sleep.

Unfortunately, I no longer believe that, and that’s why I’m posting a link to this goddamned obscenity. Watch it, if you think you can. It’s going to make you sick, and it’s going to make you mad.

And remember this: what you see in this video is what the mujahideen would like to do to each and every one of us.

UPDATE: Internet Haganah is hosting the video at three of their mirror sites:

[deleted]

Internet Haganah has removed the video, after being subjected to denial of service attacks. Someone doesn’t want the US to see this video.

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1 The_New_Guy  Tue, May 11, 2004 1:47:44pm

After seeing this, I really feel a "Bigel" moment coming on...

First?

2 zombie  Tue, May 11, 2004 1:48:09pm

The opening salvo of WWIV.

3 brakes  Tue, May 11, 2004 1:50:27pm

Didn't work for me, but then I'm not sure I could take it anyway. I already hate all that they stand for, and spit on their allah.

4 Nico Belakhof  Tue, May 11, 2004 1:50:40pm

The only proper US response to this is a massive offensive in Iraq, re-opening major military operations to root out all Baathis and Muj.

Anything less and Pres. Bush should resign.

5 jbolty  Tue, May 11, 2004 1:50:51pm

Another example of The Religion of Peace©

Everyone needs to see this so it will begin to sink in who we are dealing with.

6 Tim K  Tue, May 11, 2004 1:50:52pm

I hope that Teddy Kennedy and his ilk get a long hard look at this and understand that his grandstanding may have given these pigs the go- ahead to do this.

7 jhs  Tue, May 11, 2004 1:50:57pm

I was thinking about this today after reading about the 6 Israeli soldiers.Only people who were demonic could do such things as they do SO regularly and with unflinching pride.

8 Buckaroo  Tue, May 11, 2004 1:51:55pm

Thank you Charles, for having the courage to post this, and the integrity to forewarn and describe the situation to us. (Link didn't work a couple minutes ago, I'm going to have to try later in the day to view it)

I don't want to see it, but I **need** to see it -- and frankly, we all [adults at least, I ain't letting my kids near it!] need to **know our enemy** ("hat tip" -- Sun Tzu)

9 H-town  Tue, May 11, 2004 1:52:55pm

What a peaceful and benevolent religion Islam is. Sit back and wait for the voices of Muslims as they apologize for the actions of those that do not represent Islam.

/sound of crickets chirping in background

10 endnprbias  Tue, May 11, 2004 1:53:33pm

shouldnt we send copies of this video to CAIR.
bombard them, James Zoghby, Arab American Anti-Discrimination (sic) Committee, etc ad nauseam

11 zombie  Tue, May 11, 2004 1:54:52pm

I not only have seen the Daniel Pearl video, I have seen something that gave me nightmares for months: Islamic Chechen rebels cutting the throats of captured Russian soldiers. In agonizing slow motion. This Chechen video was made before 9/11. It's very similar to this new Nick Berg video. The beheading barbarism has been been going on for a long time.

And I'm sure others have already commented on this: isn't it a disturbing "coincidence" that the Palestinians beheaded (a little more crudely) an Israeli and danced around with the head and body parts on the same day this Al-Qaeda beheading video came out?

Islam: ROB (Religion of Beheading).

12 Luigi  Tue, May 11, 2004 1:55:01pm

Is this traditionally how they pray? Is human sacrifice is a part of their religion? Do they use human blood in their rites? Are there special prayers to be said on executions?

13 Brian Tiemann  Tue, May 11, 2004 1:56:27pm

Remember: even though every American is required to self-flagellate over the actions of the prisoner-abusers in Iraq, we're not allowed to ask that Muslims take responsibility for the actions of people like this.

14 Hank Scorpio  Tue, May 11, 2004 1:57:57pm

Where's McCarthy when you need him? We need to start deporting every single Muslim that isn't a citizen, and put our intelligence services on those that are citizens.

We need to tell Israel that our calls for their restraint are now a thing of the past. We need to level Fallujah and Sadr City, and we need to forget about winning hearts and minds.

I'm sickened that at one point in my life I actually had sympathy for the Palestinians and thought that Islam was more or less equivalent with any other religion. I'm sick of this goddamned death cult and want it eradicated from the planet. Yeah, that sounds extreme, and I really don't give a shit anymore.

15 Jennifer Peterson  Tue, May 11, 2004 1:58:32pm

By the way: Have you noticed that DailyKOS.com says of the beheading: "Violence begets violence?"

Who has the stength to expose their sponsors about this? Then again...the hardcore people on the left who advertise there, fully believe that it is OK now in the USA to say that "violence begets violence" or we are all in a "cycle of violence" and "where does it end" regarding whether we should fight or not.

16 Angry as Hell  Tue, May 11, 2004 1:58:39pm

I refuse to watch.

I'm just angry as hell.

17 Trumanite  Tue, May 11, 2004 1:58:59pm

Couldn't get through on the Northwest link. If anyone finds another source, please post.

These images should be seen by everyone.

18 zipity  Tue, May 11, 2004 1:59:12pm

What alternative universe would we inhabit now if we had satellite communications, television, and the internet during WWII? Would the American public have had the stomach for live images of the carnage on Utah and Omaha Beach on D-Day? I wonder...
I know that their generation is now know as the Greatest Generation. I believe that, and know we owe those that came back (and even more so to those that did not come back) to step up and fight the forces of Islamic Facism for the future of civilization. I only hope we are up to it. What will future historians call our generation? It's in our hands...

19 Dar ul Harbarian  Tue, May 11, 2004 1:59:43pm

The link isn't working. Says "invalid hostname"

Any other sites with this?

20 Model4  Tue, May 11, 2004 1:59:52pm

Since this was done in the name of Allah, I'm sure it will reflect on the citizens of every Islamic nation, especially their spiritual leaders. Expect constant hand-wringing, apologies, and talk of how this outrage shames and stains them all.

Aw, who am I kidding.

Please jihadis, in the future do not read too much into it when we allow men like Al Sadr and the murderers in Fallujah to go free. I just can't see how you'd distort this message into license to continue your murderous and hateful ways.
/Bitter, bitter sarcasm. Tastes like ashes.

21 Gabba Gabba Hey  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:00:01pm

Oh look! Is that a moderate Muslim I see sitting on the back of a unicorn, accompanied by a leprechaun and the tooth fairy, coming to apologize?

Religion of peace? It's a religion of disease--sick, festering. A cancer infecting and affecting the world. Allah, death be upon your followers.

22 Jennifer Peterson  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:00:15pm

>Where's McCarthy when you need him? We need to >start deporting every single Muslim

This sounds like a leftist troll. The problem is not pro-American Muslims. The problem is our own leftists, regardless of nationality.

Get a clue. Considering that 90% of Muslims are at least secretly on our side, but are afraid of getting killed by the mafia over there...there is no reason to talk about disliking Muslims.

23 Jamie Irons  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:01:55pm

It is a measure of how sick our world has become that the pathetic blood libel against the Jews can persist, and even thrive, while anybody left-of-center does not want to believe, and most certainly will never denounce, what these demonic and wholly evil bastards are up to every day.

Jamie Irons

24 NY Nana  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:02:06pm

#7 JHS

Bless you for thinking it...there is almost nothing on the 'mainstream' press. Yes, there is a connection...the RoP, and in the case of Nick Berg, an al quada connection.

Charles: Thank you for having the insight to post the video. Yes, it is brutal, but it really has to be seen. Denial seems to be prevalent all over, and I feel now that we are indeed engaged in a war.

I already saw on the Nightly News (NBC) the attempt to blame President Bush, on the part of Nick Berg's family, and the LLL mouthpieces. No doubt Hanoi john, Ted Kennedy and their buddies will sanctimoniously do the same, without a glance in the mirror. Their balaclavas are invisible, but they cannot see through them.

25 zulubaby  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:02:31pm

Brian Tiemann (#13)

Remember: even though every American is required to self-flagellate over the actions of the prisoner-abusers in Iraq, we're not allowed to ask that Muslims take responsibility for the actions of people like this.

That is what separates us from them. Thank G-d that you understand the difference and thank G-d that you weren't born a Muslim.

26 Moonbat_One  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:02:37pm
27 Dar ul Harbarian  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:03:13pm

#18

They will call us soft effete cowards who deserved to fall before the blade of almighty Islam.

28 Doss  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:03:20pm

As of right now at Google News, the beheading story falls under neither the "Top Stories" nor the "World" headings, but under the "US" heading. And, wouldn't you know that the second "Top Story" is "Iraq abuse called 'failure of leadership."
The beheading is a fresh story and still sees lower billing than the Iraqi humiliation story that's a week old.

29 Kat  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:03:34pm

I hate islam--more than I hate anything in the universe. Islam is slime--and the barbarian brown shit in that video praising allah are lower than a dung beetle.

30 Doss  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:03:59pm

Since I wrote the last entry, I now see that the beheading is the top story.

31 Hank Scorpio  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:03:59pm

#22

Get a clue. Considering that 90% of Muslims are at least secretly on our side, but are afraid of getting killed by the mafia over there...there is no reason to talk about disliking Muslims.

They are culpable because they've done nothing, zero, zip to put a stop to the murderers that thrive in their communities. Their loyalties sure as hell don't belong to our country. Screw 'em all.

32 zulubaby  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:04:16pm

Jennifer Peterson (#22)

Considering that 90% of Muslims are at least secretly on our side ...

You base this opinion on what, exactly?

33 Kevin Shook  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:04:28pm

Charles: Thank you for linking this. I saw the video of Daniel Pearl's murder and I plan on watching this one. We ALL need to be reminded of the depravity of these scum and why we are fighting this war. Too bad we won't see this on Nightline tonight.

34 The_New_Guy  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:04:56pm

Jennifer,

Where does your 90% figure come from? Free Muslims who live in the West and fear no such reprisals talk endlessly of their love and support for "martyrdom" and their hatred for the very Western Culture from which they benefit. And they're NO MINORITY. The vast majority of Muslimg polled in Great Britain were happy about 9/11.

Wake up, Western Civilization!! The Barbarians aren't at the gate, they're inside!!

35 Nico Belakhof (Lebanon)  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:05:20pm

#22 Jennifer Peterson

Get a clue. Considering that 90% of Muslims are at least secretly on our side, but are afraid of getting killed by the mafia over there

And you know this because ...?

I personally know hundreds of muslims and arabs, and not a single one of them is pro US. Nor have I ever read any pro-US article or editorial in arabic.

36 ted  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:06:30pm

I am sure that Kofi, the Eurabian Union and the Vatican are going to express their outrage very soon...

37 Tim K  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:06:43pm

#22 Jennifer

I am not so sure.
I begin to think that most Muslims are secretly cheering the bloodthirsty among them.
A look at the Koran; written by a sometime bandit and all the time butcher, and I think that all Muslims have been trained to accept horrendous bloodshed in the name of Allah.

38 jhs  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:06:55pm

#12 Luigi

Is this traditionally how they pray? Is human sacrifice is a part of their religion? Do they use human blood in their rites? Are there special prayers to be said on executions?

only with infidels...When all the infidels are not around or gone altogether,then they usually turn on each other.


Video of Stoning to Death

WARNING!
This is an extremely sick and disgusting punishment, and thus watching this video can make you weak or possibly give you nausea and shock for several days. Please do not watch if you are weak-hearted.

[Link: www.apostatesofislam.com...]

39 Snowball  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:08:47pm

Never forget. Never forgive.

40 Narniaman  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:08:50pm

Does anyone know if KOS has weighed in yet on whether the fellow that was beheaded deserved it because it was just a "mercenary"?

Has KOS yet opined "Screw Him"??

As far as this causing much of a reaction. . . .

Forget it.

The mainstream liberal press isn't going to run with it, because it might inflame passions -- just like showing the twin towers tumbling down inflames passions.

Besides, it doesn't fit in with their world view that the US is an emperor that needs to submit to transnational progressionism.

So remember -- it's not the barbarians who cut off people's heads in the name of God that are a problem (unless, of course, it is Baptists that we are talking about) -- it's Bush, Cheney, Rumsfield, etc.

A beheading -- nah, let's get back to the real outrage, which is a ugly girl laughing at a third world warrior's little penis.

41 spartacus  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:08:58pm

I have just watched the video...I swear...I feel sick...physically sick, my brothers...It's just awful...words cannot describe it...

42 ccwbass  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:09:11pm

I'm not happy to have predicted Kos's reaction.

43 dave  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:10:25pm

It is time to pull our troops out of the way and drop the big one!

44 ms heather  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:11:31pm
I hope that Teddy Kennedy and his ilk get a long hard look at this and understand that his grandstanding may have given these pigs the go- ahead to do this.

No Tim, this is going to be along the lines of: "See!...See!...We tried to tell you going to war in Iraq was a mistake; it's all Bush's faaauulllttt!"

The moonbat Dhimmicrappers are so predictable. Sad, but they are, and a good number of 'Muricans are going to believe it.

45 Spiro Agnew  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:11:31pm

#22

If 90% of Muslims are "secretly on our side", then why do they, in anonymous surveys, overwhelmingly sympathize with Bin Laden and "Palestinian" suicide bombers?

Are 90% of Europeans also "secretly on our side"?

46 teacake  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:12:15pm

general in deep shit for anti islamic remarks... you won't believe how petty this one is... wait a sec ... typical whining

47 Gabba Gabba Hey  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:12:39pm

"Considering that 90% of Muslims are at least secretly on our side..." WTF? If it's a secret, exactly how do you know? Did you attend the Kreskin School of Muslim Mind Reading? As for there being "no reason to talk about disliking Muslims," I think every life they have taken constitutes a reason.

48 Right Wing Conspirator  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:12:50pm

#19 Dar ul Harbarian

Find Thom and email him. He has it on his hardrive. It will make you pretty f'ing sick and pissed though. With their unholy chanting of Allahu Akhbar.

49 jhs  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:13:07pm

24 NY Nana

The media lately sounds like Soros' money talking.

50 zipity  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:13:29pm

Let me get this straight. All us US media pretty much banned showing images from 9/11 nearly before the year 2001 had come to an end. Possibly because they would inflame hatred of Muslims and Arabs here and around the world. Yet they ignore the obvious implications of the release of the prison images would surely endanger our troops and civilians in Iraq. What a bunch of mindless scumbags. Dan Rather and Peter Jenning can suck a MOAB...

51 Right Wing Conspirator  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:13:46pm

#46 teacake

Well, there is tomorrows headline.

52 I Love Islam  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:14:48pm

What ever happens here, don't anyone make any sweeping generalizations about islam, and the terrorists that follow it.

On the other hand, maybe everyone should exercise those judgment muscles, and condemn islam for the blood cult that it is.

Either way.

53 ShiksaGrrrl  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:15:20pm

I consider myself fairly cold and dispassionate at times, yet I grimaced at this particular video and Ive seen them all.

I pray anyone close to Nick Berg ever views this for I can guarntee they will never rest again.


I just saw an interview on CNN with Nicks fater, done on Sunday, before they knew he was dead and he spoke quite admiringly of his son and his belief that Bush and the administration were doing the right thing in Iraq.


;-(


My heart goes out to his loved ones, and mostly, his parents and siblings.

Tragic!


Id be very careful when watching this video, although its really only the last 45 or so seconds that are unbearable.

54 zombie  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:16:10pm

The reason we're not really fighting back yet is that we don't yet feel that our backs are against the wall. Stalin and the Russians pussyfooted around with Hitler, and it looked for all the world 1936-1941 that the Soviet Union would roll over and give up. But when the tanks started rolling toward Moscow, everything changed. Even though the Russians just a few years earlier had been a backward, agragian society, within a matter of months they became unbelievably fearsome. Then: Stalingrad. They stopped the unstoppable. Why? Their backs were to the wall. It was fight or die. Even if we continue down this path of PC non-fighting back, eventually we will reach our Stalingrad point. And we're no agrarian society. As I (and many others here) have predicted previously, this will conclude with very, very very massive casualties for Islam. Tens, maybe hundreds of millions.

There's no way to back out now. Strap yourself in.

55 ShiksaGrrrl  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:16:22pm
Anything less and Pres. Bush should resign.

Personally?

I doubt there will be that much outrage!
But there will still be more to come with the abuse scandal.

;-(

56 Yossarian  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:16:51pm

Now will come the claims that Nick Berg's horrendous murder was the direct result of Iraqi prisoner abuse. Of course, that notion is absurd--if it wasn't Abu Ghraib, the terrorists would have said that it was because of the occupation of Iraq, or US support for Israel, or something else. Terrorists will always find reasons to attempt to justify their atrocities, and there will unfortunately always be people that swallow these "explanations" whole.

57 Model4  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:17:32pm

#22 Jennifer Peterson: How do you feel about having Nazis here? I'd be glad to deport them. Or was it the addition of the philosophy of killing Christian that makes the philosophy of killing the Jews palatable to you? Or is it the sanction of rape torture and murder that you feel our nation has to accomodate? Sorry, I don't cater to murderous bigotry the way you do.

58 andreaSF  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:17:42pm

There was a time when NO ONE would harm a hair on an American head for fear of the battleships that would sail to their shores. The fact that this violence is going unchecked, because of leftists like Ted Kennedy, Hillary et al. , we have lost this war.. WE HAVE LOST. I don't think the politicians have the will to take a stand. It's over, and we lost.

59 swede  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:17:59pm

Americans! Go to streets! Tomorrow! Every day!

Burn arabian flags, burn Whorestinians flags in public!
Make them to pack out of States! Make them understand that America is Amerika of many clever fighters!

Do not write in internet! Take to streets and take them away of left who is in bed with Islamofascists!

Do not show any merci in the war!

Do not give [bigoted word]s use your civilisation maner - they count on this and it why they commit ATTROCITIES without punichment!

Muslims must fear to go to streets - not you, brave soldiers and hope of the free world!

60 Timid Lurker  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:18:46pm

If I recall correctly, the United States possesses something around 7,000+ atomic warheads. Would anywone really miss one or two if they were to detonate right on top of these animals?

In any case, my heart and prayers go out to the family of Nick Berg. May he rest in peace, and my his executors burn in Hell.

61 V the K  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:19:14pm

Question for SCJ and other legal beagles. Could the Berg family sue 60 minutes for showing the Iraqi prisoner abuse photos, given that violence against Americans in Iraq was a foreseeable consequence of publicizing those pictures?

62 Cam  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:19:40pm

From the other thread - can you believe this:

#267 Mike7411:

I just got back from trudging through the sewers at DU. Those people [sic] are fucking retarded. Several of them are actually opining that the captors are actually CIA Agents who killed Mr. Berg as some kind of agent provocateur deal to inflame the American Public and distract them from the prison "torture" (See Reuters, I can use scare quotations too.)

Their "evidence"?. One of the terrorists is wearing white sneakers, which as we all know, are rarer than hen's teeth in the ME.

God, I think I'm going to start drinking.

63 zipity  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:20:05pm

Wow, kinda out there swede (59). And yet I don't think it's a troll. Makes some sense...

64 Nancy  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:21:16pm

I have seen some rather gross and gruesome stuff on the "Jihadi" sites these last couple years but I cannot bring myself to watch this video --

It's almost as though having seen so much of their mutilation and gore --I can imagine how horrible it is and I just can't bear to look at any more.

The men who did that -in cold blood --are as deranged as any serial killer who captures innocent victims and tortures and mutilates them for pleasure.

Those were Ted Bundy's infamous words: we kill for pleasure.

65 dmtw  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:21:47pm

The video should be easier to obtain from this link, which is having far fewer bandwidth problems:

http://www.ogrish.com/ogrish-dot-com-american_behe ading_in_iraq_small.wmv

You will not enjoy it.

66 PJ  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:22:06pm

I am stunned beyond belief to still hear pundits on TV today worrying about offending "Muslim sensitivies" in Iraq. Good grief, after Nick Berg and Hamas and their body parts, who can say there is such a thing?

All I can say is, fight back and win. FIGHT!

67 Amos (Zionist Minion)  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:23:15pm

My Windows Media Player is on the fritz. I don't know whether to consider myself lucky or not.

68 RadioHound  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:23:17pm

As I'm reading this thread, I'm listening to the dreaded radio host whose name is oddly never mentioned here (aw, what the Hell -- Michael Savage), and his comments and the callers' comments are almost verbatim to what is being typed here. I sense a dovetailing of public opinion. A formerly fractured electorate coming together. This is a very good thing. Al-Qaeda just handed Bush the election. Thanks, AQ!

69 Li'l Mamzer  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:23:54pm

And today's word from CAIR is what?

70 Timid Lurker  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:24:03pm

Rather bad when I can't even type a semi-prayer properly :(

As I meant to write: My heart and prayers go out to the family of Nick Berg. May he rest in peace, and may his executioners burn in Hell.

And I have decided that I will learn how to spell.

71 duh  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:24:20pm

It is Bush's fault.

72 Kat  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:24:20pm

They are simply doing what the Koran teaches--that little terror manual of muslims.
Quran tells Muslims to kill the disbelievers wherever they find them (Q; 2:191), murder them and treat them harshly (Q; 9:123), slay them (Q; 9:5), fight with them, (Q; 8:65 ). Islam orders the Muslims to fight the unbelievers until no other religion except Islam is left (Q;2:193). Quran states that the non-believers will go to hell and will drink boiling water (Q;14:17). It asks the Muslims to slay or crucify or cut the hands and the feet of the unbelievers, and expel them from the land with disgrace and stresses that “they shall have a great punishment in world hereafter” (Q;5:34). It says that for the disbelievers "garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods” (Q;22:19). Quran prohibits Muslims to befriend their own brothers and fathers if they are non-believers (Q;9:23), (Q;3:28). It asks the Muslims to “strive against the unbelievers with great endeavor (Q;25:52) and be stern with them because they belong to hell (Q;66:9).  The holy Prophet demanded his followers to “strike off the heads of the disbelievers”; then after making a “wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives” for ransom (Q;47:4). 
Religion of crap.

73 zipity  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:24:53pm

I am losing my faith in the US people. I don't think they have it in them to defend Western Civilization. Too fat and happy. Besides, that new reality TV show is coming on in 5 minutes...

74 zombie  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:25:08pm
#21   Gabba Gabba Hey
Religion of peace? It's a religion of disease

How about this
ROD -- Religion of Decapitation.

75 Infidel #275,000,000  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:25:08pm

Kill them all, Kick the UN over to the blithering idiots in the EU, pull all troops home and let the 3rd world destroy itself.

I say keep the Americas and the Pacific rim clean of Islam, dictators and communists. Life's too precious to waste it on scum.

76 Delta Burka  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:25:14pm

#40, Narnaiman

From #26 Moonbat_One's Link (and thanks for that)

Left-wing blogger TheDailyKos simply put up a stark image of the beheading and refrained from posting for the entire day. "I just felt there was no need for words," he said. "There are no words. This man was decapitated for simply attempting to bring the benefits of technology to the world's poor. He was a mercenary-- a Mercenary in the Army of Humanity."

Cartoonist Ted Rall announced that he "had no plans at the moment" to draw a cartoon making light of the man's death, or savaging his family's public reaction to the tragedy. "That's sooo 2002," he said. "I'm above that."


They are both PsOS, but Rall, he is without a soul.

77 andreaSF  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:25:55pm

#68 Radiohound - Michael Savage rocks and I don't care who flames me for saying so.. My husband and I often discuss the days events, then turn on MS and he's saying the same opinions .. Scary, but the world is scary now.

78 Craig  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:26:00pm

Mikey Moore's Minutemen strike again. Mikey must be SO proud!

I don't have the heart to watch their porno. I do have the heart to fully support extermination of all Islamist bastards.

79 I Love Islam  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:26:19pm
This is a very good thing. Al-Qaeda just handed Bush the election. Thanks, AQ!

I'm not sure that there is any stretch of logic that allows for calling this a good thing. But it is true, they may have just handed Bush the election, while at the same time making dissenters look like foolish partisan bigoted morons. Hello Kennedy? Hello Kerry?

80 The_New_Guy  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:26:55pm
#75
pull all troops home and let the 3rd world destroy itself.

Unfortunately, Infidel, we still need the damn oil.

81 Li'l Mamzer  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:27:23pm

#77

You just nailed it, Andrea.

It's a SCARY world, and survival demands doing scary things in response.

Can we now just end this war and ___ the fucking ___ staright to hell?

82 Buckaroo  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:29:04pm

#68 RH

Totally OT and if it is not proper for this thread fine, I understand -- but can someone please tell me why is M. Savage HWSNBM???

83 Hank Scorpio  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:29:10pm

#79

But it is true, they may have just handed Bush the election, while at the same time making dissenters look like foolish partisan bigoted morons. Hello Kennedy? Hello Kerry?

You're deluding yourself, my friend. This will stay in the collective consciousness for all of 10 minutes and drift away in the breeze. We have the attention spans of gnats in this country.

84 Right Wing Conspirator  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:29:12pm

#63 zipity

Swede isn't a troll. Unless he had a transformation that I missed somewhere.

85 RepJ  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:29:30pm

Charles,

I'm getting extremely emotional just reading your description of the video. I have a wild imagination, but I feel like the video is probably worse than what's already in my head. I don't think that I CAN watch it and I certainly don't want to even though I probably should, but I will pass along the link. Thank you for the information.

86 Selky  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:29:36pm

Here's a link to the unbelievable thread by DUmmies...

DUmmies blame CIA for beheading...

87 addison  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:30:44pm

#86,

Couldn't go off blaming those who did the beheading, you know?

88 aaron  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:31:33pm

OK, it's here too:

[Link: kush.csoft.net...]

Call it your Internet Haganah donations at work.

At this point I invoke a corollary of the Iron Fist rule: if you think you're too angry to say anything, you probably are. So I will say no more.

89 Athos  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:31:40pm

I've watched the video - it is not unlike the Daniel Pearl or the Chechens murdering Russians that Zombie referenced.

Its nothing more than a group of thugs and cowards using a tactic known as terror to get us to surrender / appease to their demands (like Spain) knowing full well that the surrender / appeasement will only make it easier for them to do that to all unbelievers who are beneath them.

This should bring out outrage - outrage across the globe at levels that place the Abu Ghaiba in perspective - knowing full well that the few soldiers who stepped over the line in the humiliation of the murders and terrorists (Yes - the people in Abu Ghaiba were not jaywalkers) will have to face a court martial and full prosecution while their commanders have been relieved of duty and had their careers effectively killed.

The outrage needs to be by those of us appalled by the double standard in the media who are showing a fraction of the outrage over this atrocity and that of the 4 contractors murdered and desecrated in Fallujah. But that is only an aspect of the outrage that many of feel on a daily basis to the traitors in the Fourth Estate.

The real outrage that will resonate from this act will be seen in the political circles here in the US for the election cycle. President Bush will stand to receive some real outrage from his base of supporters if he continues to fight this war in a half-assed manner. He stands to lose the "tough on the war on terror" base if he doesn't stop catering to the press or the "Arab Street".

There also will be some real outrage directed to those who oppose the war, who will say, as they did post 9/11, that this was brought upon ourselves or try to diminish this revolting event by equivocating the abuse at Abu Ghaiba.

Somehow, the lame "of course we deplore these actions" comments from the el cubos in power will do little to impact Main Street America. They will look at hazing gone bad vs a cold blooded butchery. Most media will try to shield America from the hatred and brutality in this tape - but now is the time to remind ourselves what we are fighting and why.

Kudos to Charles for making this decision. I remember the discussion around whether to post the Daniel Pearl video and all of the reasons pro and con. Today, between this event and the one in Gaza - we are reminded of why we need to fight this war as much as if we were watching 9/11 all over again.

90 Will Smythe  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:31:58pm

The Koran’s 150 Jihad Verses, as compiled by Yoel Natan: [Link: www.angelfire.com...]

91 WilliamP  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:32:22pm

Beheading link with stills & video (via Andrew Sullivan)

Seems to be going in and out of availability...

[Link: informationclearinghouse.info...]

92 zulubaby  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:32:27pm
but can someone please tell me why is M. Savage HWSNBM???

There is only one HWSNBN and that is Ranbutan.

93 Jewels (AKA Julian)  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:34:16pm

OT: Found on Merde in France. The Bush = Racist meme persists.

[Link: merdeinfrance.blogspot.com...]

94 Cam  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:34:35pm

#92 zulubaby:

What (or who) is a HWSNBN?

95 addison  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:34:37pm

#92 zulubaby,

Did you know he trolls Scott Ott's Scrappleface site?

96 Buckaroo  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:34:49pm

#92 zb

OK, and why is that?

Again, I'm simply curious ...

97 Spiny Norman  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:35:13pm

#82 Buckaroo,

I don't think Micheal Savage is persona non grata here, I just don't think many of us listen to him. He is a bit over-the-top...

BTW, the acronym HWSNBN is reserved here for a specific banned commenter with a, umm, colorful history.

:^P

98 Ben  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:35:20pm

I do not believe that these people are human beings.

99 chip  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:35:32pm

I wonder if Kerry still thinks this is a law enforcement issue.
chip
[Link: cicada.typepad.com...]

100 addison  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:35:40pm

He
Who
Shall
Not
Be
Named

101 Sheriff Will Kane  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:36:08pm

What a bunch of disgusting sub-humans!!!

That "culture", "civilization", and "religion" is not worth saving or redeeming.

102 Buckaroo  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:36:11pm

#94 C


H e
W ho
S hall
N ot
B e
Named

I see it a couple times a week here and have yet to figure it out completely ...

103 andreaSF  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:36:40pm

#81 li'l mamzer -- If I didn't have others to be responsible and together for, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night. I'm so freakin scared, TERRIFIED at what is happening to American human beings all over the world. And the Islamofascists aren't the worst part.. It's our weak-willed leaders who excoriate our own people and hold us to a standard that is, in my opinion, inappropriate in a time of war. They are going to get us all killed.. My only consolation is that I can get off 6 shots at these bastard terrorists before they force themselves into my neighborhood and home - even if our leaders won't do anything, I'm going down fighting.

104 foreign devil  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:38:29pm

We cannot fight this stuff if we cannot take the 'Iraqi prisoner abuse' photos in stride! Either we toughen up or we'll get more of this stuff.

The reason Jihadis show you these pictures is because that's WHAT SCARES THEM, and they figure it will scare you if you see what can happen to you. And since the US is running around apologizing all over the place for the tame, obviously staged Iraqi alleged 'abuse' photos, they figure they'll just blame their horrors on that stupid scandal.

But the US and coalition partners and we--the public--must take a page from 'Appocalypse Now' and as Col. Kurtz says, "...embrace the horror", "...make it your friend" in order to defeat them.

We now see what Islam is about--and what it's pretender to the Caliphate, Iran, is capable of. This is no time to let their bloody pictures put us off our stride! There'll be plenty more of those before this war is over (G*d help them!). We must toughen up and simmer down and save our anger for WINNING THIS FIGHT. There is no good to be had by endlessly recoiling from their bloody and outrageous assaults.

The moment you stop recoiling from these images and start acting like 'it's business as usual' and you'll catch them and they'll pay for it and DAMN THEM YOU'RE COMING!

I've noticed this year people around me are starting to take a stand and for the most part, they are standing against Islam and the warriors it has sent out across the Globe to try to intimidate the rest of us into submission. It's not going to work, no matter how many heads you cut off so keep it up! Because the rest of the world is fed up with the bloodiness of Islam, no matter what bones they may have to pick with the US for whatever issue.

It's time to tell them to 'do their worst!' because it's the last chance they'll get. We know what they are about--murder, abuse, intimidation and actual torture and beheadings--what else do we need to know about Islam?

BRING IT ON!

105 zulubaby  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:38:52pm

addison, yeah, I've seen him posting his tired old shit there. He's insane, his Jew-hatred has eroded his brain.

Cam, Buckaroo ... Ranbutan is a particularly vile individual who used to post here.

106 Gabba Gabba Hey  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:38:53pm

#74

ROD -- too true.

107 Buckaroo  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:38:55pm

#97 SN

Yes, M.S. is over the top - but not by much! (I presume bigel likes him -- oh, maybe I should just quit while I'm not too far behind ... )

Thx. a ton for the other info. -- that's good enough for me!

108 Li'l Mamzer  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:39:01pm

#103 AndreaSF

You and me, we think exactly alike.

WE are our own worst enemy, because we DO have the power to overcome this most fearsome enemy, if only we can find a way to do it.

And why limit yourself to 6 rounds?

Get an autoloader and a few 15 round mags, at least.

I did.

109 Right Wing Conspirator  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:39:02pm

#102 Buckaroo

Do a search for the name zulubaby posted and read up on it. I don't think it can be explained quickly.

110 Trumanite  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:39:07pm

#65 dmtw

Thank you for the post. I was able to download and view the video.

Folks, it's really time to get vocal about the Muslim threat. News media must be forced to quit hiding behind so-called concern for "standards" and SHOW THIS VIDEO.

Ted Koppel, you chickenshit, you put this video up alongside your sanctimonious reading of the dead GI names. This is what they died fighting against.

CNN, MSNBC, 60 Minutes, FNC put this video up against the "abuse" photos we've now seen at least 1,000 times each the last couple of weeks.

This video says everything that needs to be said.

111 brianstien  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:39:40pm

Just watched it. It's taken 10 minutes or so to decompress and stop trembling.

To quote Stonewall Jackson: Kill 'em. Kill 'em all.

May God bless and keep Nick Berg and his loved ones, an all our forces in the devil's nest.

112 s  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:39:50pm

this weblog contains the most disgusting collection of bigoted racists I've ever seen, I'm truly at a loss for words.

113 ThePunk  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:39:52pm

We havent seen anything yet!!

They will do it again...

Lets kill them all...Do it like Romans did it in their day.

Its time for a crusade...


Back to reality...

They will do it again...

We will have committee meetings, blame ourselves, take away the guns from our soldiers and give them sharp sticks and release all prisoners.

Maybe we deserve to be defeated and worship the whore Allah!!

114 RepJ  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:40:29pm

BTW, here is CAIR's email address. I looked at their website and not a damn thing about condemning what these Muslims did to Nick. NOT A FUCKING WORD! Oh, but they are making America better one member at a time...

cair@cair-net.org

115 zulubaby  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:41:38pm
this weblog contains the most disgusting collection of bigoted racists I've ever seen, I'm truly at a loss for words.

Good.

116 Luigi  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:41:44pm

What is to be done? For a highly nuanced analysis of a way to proceed, go here:

[Link: www.jihadwatch.org...]

and go to the comment section of the Forced Islamization article. Read the lengthy comment by Hugh Fitzgerald for a step-by-step strategy to Western victory. It is a highly satisfying program Hugh has sketched out.

117 I Love Islam  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:41:53pm

S-

I'm truly at a loss for words.

Good. You'll save us all a lot of time.

118 Right Wing Conspirator  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:42:10pm

#112 s

Then begone with ye, peasant. And don't forget to face mecca during your prayers.

119 bashir  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:42:20pm

Stunned.

120 swede  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:42:42pm

Not, I am not Golda Meir, but I still know that if America dont fight Islamofascists by war actions instead of mediawar - then America get Russians to same conclusions that Hitler get from France Maurice Gamelin fantasywar - and going to bring Army of hungry communists to fight America...

Fight Muslims and you fight communists dream of Earth Domination!

Fight now and enlist to train Combat when you still have time!

Eurabia is out for now - as always. To many leftists who take money from Muslims and communists to stay straigt.

121 I Love Islam  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:42:45pm

zulubaby- you beat me to it.

122 quesnay  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:43:06pm

The only way we are going to win this war against these subhumans is what we did to Japan. We should tell Iran, Syria & Saudi Arabia that unless they take matters into their own hands and destroy the terror networks, we will target Tehran with a nuclear device and if that doesn't work, Mecca will be next

123 Iron Fist[deleted]  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:43:24pm
124 Look at yourself first  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:43:24pm

Outrage is good, as torturing prisoners is not better then beheading an harmless man. Two wrong, two big wrongs don't make a right.

I see a lot of outrage, which is good because two horrors like that should not happen. But they happened, because of bloody murderous people in the military and bloody murderous terrorist.

You can easily spot them by looking for their telltale signs :

1) Go, let's roll and nuke them !
2) We are right, they're wrong !
3) We're better, they're worse and evil !
4) We got honour, they dont !
5) We have God on our side !

and other easy slogans, prepared to MAKE you believe them ; they repeat their mantra forever, brainwashed as they are.

Their objective is the same: incite hate, incite war, create an holy war of some kind. Sometime they hide in religious groups, creating groups of extremist zealots who only read what they WANT to read in Bible or Quran. Many times they're simpletons, sometimes they're highly educated, but disturbed people.

Sometimes you find them in the military, hiding under a flag , hiding behind superiors : this is the kind of people that worked in the U.S.
prison in which tortures happened, dishonouring U.S. for a long time. They're the scum of military and must be removed from service at once.
They hide well like rats, so you gotta find them and remove them no matter the cost and the effort.
Wrapped in a flag they feel good, but they really are cowards.

If they can't make it in the military, they join terrorist groups of any kind and size to perpetuate their obsession with power, their fear of different people; terrorist organization easily manipulate these people into doing almost anything, including sometimes killing themselves.

Don't be fooled by their slogans ; "let's roll" and they sit in a chair hoping they'll not be drafted..or they say "this is the will of God Allah" but they never ever speaked to God, as God doesn't speak with anybody neither is God found in a book.

125 addison  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:43:26pm

#112,

Cute. In a thread where it is discussed that people of a religious persuassion are doing this and that, you mention racism. Unless you can prove followers of particular religions become de facto races, you aren't doing yourself any favors.

126 PDM  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:43:50pm

That's not sick enough. Let's wait to see if they can do worse.

/the "civilized" world

127 Buckaroo  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:43:52pm

RWC

I'm set, thx.

128 RepJ  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:44:38pm

#112 s

The most bigoted statement was made today by Muslims when they cut off the head of an American civilian, possibly a Jew, because of where he was from.

STFU

129 spartacus  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:44:54pm

#112
Go and watch this and come back later with your "racist" comments! http://www.at-tawbah.com/

130 Thousand Sons  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:46:01pm

#104 foreign devil

But the US and coalition partners and we--the public--must take a page from 'Appocalypse Now'

It's impossible for words to describe what is necessary to those who do not know what horror means. Horror. Horror has a face... and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not then they are enemies to be feared. They are truly enemies.
-Col. Kurtz

Exterminate the brutes.

131 Gabba Gabba Hey  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:46:04pm

#112

"truly at a loss for words" eh? I warrant the only things you're truly at a loss for are sense and perspective.

132 s  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:46:31pm

I beg everyone's pardon. I am a troll, and should be ignored. Please do not feed me.

133 Buckaroo  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:46:42pm

#123 I.F.

y'know, the more I hear, the happier I am that I missed the whole thing ...
:-)

134 zulubaby  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:48:00pm
Outrage is good, as torturing prisoners is not better then beheading an harmless man.

Were the prisoners decapitated? I must have missed that.

But they happened, because of bloody murderous people in the military and bloody murderous terrorist.

You are such an asshole.

135 Kellalor  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:49:00pm

No way am I going to watch it. The description is enough to make me feel sick.

136 addison  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:49:59pm

Scott Ott's take. Funny and poignant.

137 RadioHound  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:50:50pm
but can someone please tell me why is M. Savage HWSNBM???

What (or who) is a HWSNBN?

I think it stands for He Who Should Not Be Mentioned (Named).

Why is Michael Savage verboten here? I don't know. I'm not sure he is. It's just that in over a year of reading LGF I never once have seen him mentioned, even though about 75% of what he says sounds like he's merely reading one of Charles' threads and the posters' comments over the air. My theory is that MS is generally loathed by the liberal media, and LGFers don't want that baggage associated with them. Nothing to be gained, even though MS would be a true minion if he ever discovered this site.

Or maybe not. I just always wondered why he is never ever mentioned here, when just about every other media pundit is.

138 AG in Houston  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:51:09pm

I ain't watchin.

139 Charles  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:51:25pm

"Look at yourself first" is in Italy.

140 David  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:52:24pm

As sickening as these images are, they come at an inopportune time for the apologists for Islamism and the critics piling on Rumsfeld and the administration for the Abu Ghraib scandal. "Humiliation" of Iraqi prisoners is now seen for what it is, and in stark contrast to the videotaped fulfilled desires of the Islamo-psychos. The attendant silence from the "Arab Street" will be forthcoming and should be enough evidence that we need not heed that voice in prosecuting this war.

141 aaron  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:52:25pm
It's impossible for words to describe what is necessary to those who do not know what horror means. Horror. Horror has a face... and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not then they are enemies to be feared. They are truly enemies.
-Col. Kurtz

v'imru...

142 Cam  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:52:34pm

I remember the thread the other day about British kids being taught aspects of Islam as part of their curriculum. Makes a person wonder if this video will be screened alongside "Islam is Peace", "Muhammed had 20 wives because he was such a charitable dude", & "Algonquins are descended from Muslims" bullshit.

'Prolly not.

143 I Love Islam  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:53:02pm
No way am I going to watch it. The description is enough to make me feel sick.

Please find it within yourself to make the emotional and spiritual sacrifice and watch the enemy that threatens you. Many more are doing much more to confront it. I know that it hurts but we all have to know. I do not judge those that can't bring themselves to watch it, but I implore you all to try. If we do not have the courage to stare evil in the face, how will we ever have courage to defeat it?

144 ms heather  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:53:24pm
Outrage is good, as torturing prisoners is not better then beheading an harmless man.

Those "tortured" prisoners still have their lives, fuck-'tard.

145 addison  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:53:26pm

#137,

Michael Savage was an evening treat for me for some months last year but he started going way over the top on certain things and I stopped listening. This from a person who listens to Laura Ingraham, Hewitt, Prager, Glenn Beck, Rush...

146 dmtw  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:53:28pm

#110 Trumanite:

Thank you for the post. I was able to download and view the video.

You're welcome, but I suggest also visiting the page posted by aaron in #88: http://kush.csoft.net/nick_berg/

That version of the video is of much higher quality than the one I posted.

147 RadioHound  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:53:39pm

Just now Michael Savage claimed to have coined the term Islamofascism. Even if it's not true, it shows he thinks like a true lizardoid!

148 Tupsox  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:54:06pm

#124

I second zulubaby.

You are an asshole, take your sniveling moral equivalency elsewhere. Why don't you look in the mirror, you who is unable to grasp the concept of a moral absolute?

149 zulubaby  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:54:11pm
"Look at yourself first" is in Italy.

Europe is diseased.

150 Cam  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:54:42pm

Charles:

Quick question. How come every time I post the screen goes to the very top of the thread? Am I making a mistake or is my 'puter affiliated with the Teamsters?

151 Mary  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:55:23pm

re: #59 Swede

A few threads ago I think it was WriterMom who asked 'What can we do with our outrage?' I think Swede is onto something...why haven't we protested outside of the UN re:Oil for Food? Why don't we see people on the streets protesting the 'lack of resolve' I fear so much today? Why aren't we marching in support of Rummy?

Who knows the impact of writing to our Senators and media talking heads. I think we need to see physical opinions - and the media needs to see us. Call me nutty, but I feel like no letter writing I've done - and I've done my share - is registering. Maybe we need to think differently about how we express our opinions.

152 Brian Jones  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:56:06pm

Berg was in Iraq installing satellite hardware, I heard. Was he perhaps involved with Spirit Of America?

If the anti-American human shields had any morals at all, they would be in Iraq right now shielding people like Berg from these animals.

153 Bleeding heart conservative  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:56:07pm

Rare sexual harassment vs. frequent inhuman murder.

I know which side I'm on.

154 zombie  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:56:22pm

I've successfully downloaded the video, but I literally can't bring myself to watch it. I'm just sitting here, staring at the icon on my hard drive.

155 Tim in PA  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:56:30pm

This kind of atrocity makes me feel better about spending the time and money to teach another friend to shoot today -- I had him nailing targets at 300 yards with an AR by noon.

The recent threats from San Francisco Indymedia should be a wake up call to those who think that they are safe here in the U.S. The jihadis are not going to stop any time soon, here or there.

156 addison  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:56:33pm

#150,

That's how it does for me, as well; I think it is normal because the page reloads. Just press Ctrl + End to go immediately to the bottom.

157 Buckaroo  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:56:42pm

#150 C

I think that always happens when you post ...

158 addison  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:57:03pm

Oops, the End button by itself will do.

159 Model4  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:57:44pm

#102 Buckaroo: Sorry for any confusion. When I use HWSNBN it's to talk about a blacklisted human being. For instance, one who could say "today the weatherman predicted a high temp of 80 degrees, partly cloudy, with light winds" and masses on the board will erupt to condemn the statement just because of the name of the person making it. The extra-disgusting part is not that they'd necessarily disagree with the person or his views, but that they're cowed to the point of being afraid of been seen by LLL's as admitting they agree. It's pretty pathetic. Puts the whole "fisking," "intellectual honesty" and "fact checks your... hiney" quotes in perspective.

160 emo  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:58:02pm

#112

the most disgusting collection of bigoted racists

What race are Muslims, exactly?

Watch the video. Then tell me that Islam is a 'religion of peace', you worm.

161 addison  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:58:11pm

#154 zombie,

Watch it...

162 Cam  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:58:46pm

#156 Addison:

Thank you. I knew the day would come that I would rue spending 1st year Computer Science at the campus pub.

163 Model4  Tue, May 11, 2004 2:59:05pm

OT: Oh, btw, Drudge has the strangest, most poorly conceived link I've probably ever seen up on the upper left hand corner of his page at the moment. Look for "flashback."

164 Kat  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:00:00pm

I wonder if they will just blame it on the Jews. Did you know the prison stuff was the Jews' fault? Those Jews are all too powerful.
[Link: www.honestreporting.com...]

165 RepJ  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:00:00pm

#124 Look

Being from Europe, you should know that there are many people who probably would have enjoyed what went on in Abu Ghraib. Yes, it's sick, but some people are just perverted that way.

However, most of the world can agree that getting your head hacked off with a saw isn't something that anyone would enjoy. You are comparing apples with oranges.

And let's just all remember this, the terrorists acted first. They have no claims for 'revenge' for they are the aggressors.

166 DP111  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:00:16pm

As we see this video, I hope that the rest of mankind and the West in particular, realises what we are up against. I for one have had no illusions of Islam for the last 35 years. I'm glad that atlast we are waking up, or atleast I hope so.

I hope the media show this video along with the video of Daniel Pearls's slaughter. I use the word 'slaughter' advisedly, as the slaying in both cases was that of the slaughter of an animal. These people by their acts, show contempt for all humanity. To take pride in the slaughter and to shout out that they are doing work that is pleasing to their god, is beyond the bounds of belief.

Some ordinary Japanese and Germans were also cruel in the last war, but did not take moral or religious satisfaction from their acts. Not to my knowledge anyway. Their media did not broacast such events as al Jazheera does.

Words, no matter how strong are not enough to condemn bestiality of this type.

The Islamic world owes it to the world to apologise to the USA. And not just an ordinary apology but a grovelling one. An apology that explains why those beasts were chanting allahu akbar. They need to explain why their most holy chant is also a murderous incantation.

167 John Schneider  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:00:31pm

#22

quoting a statistic like that proves you are a complete, and total moron.

cite your source, or shut up.

168 I Love Islam  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:01:27pm

#163  Model4-

My Allah! What the hell is he trying to say?!?!

169 Free Speech Is Only For Uber-Libs  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:01:43pm

Fuck Islam
Fuck leftists
fuck the liberal media and their goddam morally bankrupt leftwing agenda.
Fuck the moral relativism coming out of the every ignorant lefty.

This is 2004 and we either have lefties whining over non-issues or the rest of the brain deads asleep at the wheel. Thanks for posting this Charles.
I recommend everyone pass this around. The media cannot ignor this.
oh - and fuck all the elite Democrats who have positions of power like Teddy Kennedy. Vote for Kerry at your own peril.

170 JimmytheClaw  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:02:11pm

well my libertarian vet friend watched the movie and while outside smoking a ciggarette he said something about new world order power elites etc... i pointed out to him bin laden and most mosques preach one world under islam then also pointed out ex state department people etc... working for the saudi's. pointed out madrasses springing up all over the place and what they teach he said he will be back to pick up the cd i made for him of the video then i added a shitload of web pages that tell the truth of islam then i added the jordyptions celebrating 9/11 etc... did i do good

/just being a good lizard

171 Buckaroo  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:02:14pm

#154

zombie, your phtos and videos have done us all a service by illuminating the enemy within. I know it isn't the same, but this video shows the enemy in his lair. For Mr. Berg, for all those who are putting themselves on the line for us, we need to see it ...

172 andreaSF  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:03:16pm

#124 I agree! Torture is a waste of time. I think a quick bullet to the head is much more fair, given what they are willing to do to us.

173 Bigger Digger  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:03:19pm

"The only proper US response to this is a massive offensive in Iraq, re-opening major military operations to root out all Baathis and Muj.

Anything less and Pres. Bush should resign."

I agree with the writer who maintains this war is being lost.

Americans are not outraged that "an ugly american girl was making fun of an Arab's small penis."
They are outraged that Iraqi and all the naked shitbags in that pile were still alive. By apologizing to these shitbags, Bush encouraged this beheading.

All the fight in the world is left in these people. We haven't even scratched them with the "wars" in afghanistan and Iraq. These were heavily-armed humanitarian missions. They are conducting social work forcibly with M-16's.

Sweet Jesus, when are we going to start killing these shitbags?

174 Iron Fist[deleted]  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:03:50pm
175 Joachim  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:04:02pm

#112

I'm not bigoted against ALL Muslims...just the ones who hate Americans and Jews.

176 R Cris  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:04:49pm

Don't need to see it. Hunt is on and we will win.

PS #124

You make me sick.

177 DP111  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:05:41pm

Evertime I now hear "allahu akbar", I will associate it with Daniel Pearls and Nick Bergs sad and tragic end.

I hope we dont have to learn any more lessons. If we do, then we deserve the fate that awaits us.

178 I Love Islam  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:06:06pm
I'm not bigoted against ALL Muslims...just the ones who hate Americans and Jews.

Exactly. Anyone want to venture a guess at the percentage we are talking about here?

179 Vigil  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:06:18pm

Too gruesome to watch - will not out of respect for Mr. Berg's life. This will become the call to move America against these pigs of Islam; against the murderers and the silent ones who nod approval by showing no outrage to what is done routinely in the name of their phony religion. This is Mr. Berg's homeland and it is now holy ground. No Arab should feel safe here anymore. Beware, scum, your time has come.

180 jrdroll  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:06:42pm

Kan we Kill Korananimals?

181 hedge  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:06:50pm

#143 I love Islam

got the courage to watch, to face the evil, as you say.

I hurled.
I cried.

182 zulubaby  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:08:37pm

Michael Savage said this proves there is a direct link between al-Qaeda and Iraq. I wonder ...

183 CheezNCrackers  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:08:42pm
but they never ever speaked to God, as God doesn't speak with anybody


Are you trying to tell me the voices are just in my head?

184 I Love Islam  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:08:59pm
I hurled.
I cried.

Proper reaction. I am sorry. I am sorry for all of us. I am sorry for humanity. I am sorry for what I know our nation must do. I am sorry for what more will happen to finally make us do it.

185 twisterella  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:10:40pm

Charles:

And remember this: what you see in this video is what the mujahideen would like to do to each and every one of us.

Actually that is just for you XY beings. Us grrrls would get gang-raped and enslaved. I think I'd rather be beheaded.

186 NY Nana  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:12:54pm

#112 s(hit)

Too lazy or too stupid to type your full nic?

ESAD.

187 Bob  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:14:13pm

Hey, any astronomy or physics people?

Here's a very weird claim that the Moon has been rising off schedule for the past few days.

[Link: www.surfingtheapocalypse.net...]

There are several reports that the Moon is in the wrong position on that site.

Any truth to it? Thanks.

188 mountb  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:15:25pm

#169 Free Speech Is Only For Uber-Libs

Damn right. And for those who don't agree: fuck you too.

189 Seymour Paine  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:15:27pm

I couldn't even look at it or think about it. In fact, I find nearly everything about the Moslem world equally revolting. I pray for the day we, the civilized nations, get finally stand up and rid ourselves of them.

190 Donna V.  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:15:49pm

The link doesn't work for me. Fine. Just reading Charles' description of Berg's death made me want to puke.

When in hell will this country wake up? 9/11 didn't do it, Pearl's murder didn't do it, the homicide murders in Israel didn't do it, and I doubt this will do it either. A lot of people will be more outraged by gas prices and who wins "American Idol" than they are by this.

191 Zack  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:16:06pm
80 The_New_Guy
Unfortunately, Infidel, we still need the damn oil.

True enough. It's becoming increasingly unfortunate. Needless to say, we need to wean ourselves off the resource these demonic monsters from hell have so much of.

192 Athos  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:16:40pm

Guiliani is brilliant on FNC O'Reilly Factor - with Tony Snow filling in for Bill O'Reilly,

Talking about the murder of Nick Berg and the need to confront these terrorists in the only way they understand - through the use of power.

193 jrdroll  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:16:55pm

"These are people who only understand power"
R. Guliani
Fox News
Nuke Mecca Now

194 steve miller  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:16:57pm

I simply can't watch the video.

It makes me sick.

It makes me sicker that bloated fools like Ted Kennedy can claim we're running the same tortures as Saddam when this type of action is committed by Mohammedan terrorists against American citizens.

Ted Kennedy can swell with outrage like a tick on a blood vessel, but he is strangely silent on this issue.

Yeah, where's his outrage?

195 Ann  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:17:04pm

Rudy on Fox now.

When will someone stop calling them terrorists?

196 Iron Fist[deleted]  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:18:23pm
197 slipkid  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:19:04pm

This is a defining moment. If Dubya can't grow a pair and deliver a major-league smackdown somewhere, he is deservedly finished. "Cowardly act", "bring them to justice", "we condemn this atrocity" just will not cut it. Start with Mookie and the Mehdi Men, take Fallujah, and give the ultimatum to Iran. To paraphrase Lincoln, if you are not going to use the military, can we borrow it for a while?

198 MszPhit  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:19:24pm

Damn, did I pick a bad week to start watching the news again after a purposeful hiatus.

I'm so phucking pissed off right now and I haven't even seen the video yet! But, I will see it because I believe I have every right to feel the rage I feel right now and have that rage fueled by what I am going to see.

The rage I feel is so deep that I just have to do something. But, what? Write a congressman? Write an editorial? Go buy a gun that I can't use except at target practice? Drive around with an American and Israeli flag on my car? Quit watching Survivor because it's on CBS? I feel so helpless within my own frustration!

Does anyone have a punching bag I can borrow? It might come back to you with adhesive stains because I have a few people whose faces I would tape to it before I punched it.

I'm going to shut up now because until I get that punching bag I am going to have to result to listening to a Yanni CD to put me to sleep. Or maybe a Barney video...one or the other. /gotta' joke or blow a gasket

I am so thankful for Charles and all of you (ignoring the trolls). Here I can find "my people" and keep my sanity. Yeah, I could find my people at church too but they don't let me smoke and drink in church. LOL

(((LGF'ers)))

199 DP111  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:19:37pm

124 look at yourself first

I see what you are getting at. The trouble I have with equating on the basis of moral equivalence is that there must be a basic equivalence in the first place.

For instance, in WWII Allied troops did some pretty gruesome acts, particularly on Japanese soldiers. But there was no doubt in the broader scheme of things, where the weight of decency lay. It was clearly with the Allied cause. There could never be a case of moral equivalence between the Nazis and the Allies.

Self examination and criticism is a must and is the basis of any decent civilisation and we do this with gusto. In the case of the Iraqi prisoner abuse, even the President of the USA apologised for it.

Now if the Islamic world in the form of its leaders apologised abjectly for this act and the slaying of Daniel Pearl and explained why the killers used a holy chant in their incantation while they slaughtered Nick Berg, then I will grant you that you have a case. In the meantime, let us wait and see what happens.

200 Stanger  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:21:08pm

My only response:
Kill them. All of them. Now!

201 Pro-Bush Canuck  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:21:15pm

Pull Westerners out of Middle East.

Expel all sharia-observant Muslims from West.

Use the SLBM fleet. Armageddon, for them.

Too late now, though. They--in league with the Left--are winning the war because we are not allowed to fight. The media spends weeks agonizing over the prison abuses committed by a tiny fraction of 1% of US Forces (there are probably far more people like this in the general population) as we sit and wait for the inevitable mega-attacks which will devastate our society.

I believe we should be engaged in all-out war with Islam around the globe, or they will destroy everything that is not Muslim, everywhere.

202 Bob  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:21:36pm

#185 twisterella

That stuff isn't going to happen. I want you to be calm.

Unless something changes, we may be going back to Mad Max days. Then gang raping would occur.

That won't happen, though, because, well, this is basic. The men will protect the women from the foreign savages. America will win. Something will happen and good things will occur. We will turn the tide. We are turning the tide already.

We're reaching a point in history where basic biology is taking over. We're going to prevent it from getting to that point. Even if it does, though, we will still win.

The words are chivalry, honor, courage, daring. The words are valor, defiance, bravery, victory.

We will protect you. We're going to win. No matter what.

203 Ginger Liz  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:22:09pm

He wasn't much older than me.

Ah, things like this really make me wonder if there IS anyone up there looking out for us. G-d, if you're there, now's the time to let us know.

I don't know if I'm being melodramatic by crying, but I can't stop.

I hope his loved ones find peace.

204 zulubaby  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:22:15pm
Yeah, I could find my people at church too but they don't let me smoke and drink in church.

MszPhit, that's the first time I've really laughed today. Thanks :-)

205 Donna V.  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:23:08pm

Iron Fist wrote:

Makes you wonder who's funding the anti-war movement, doesn't it?

Well, for starters, you have the endlessly deep pockets of George Soros. I've come across quite a few articles detailing the evildoing of Fox News owner Rupert Murdoch, but a zillionaire spending huge bucks to beat Duyba - well, obviously, Soros is on the side of the angels.

/sarcasm

206 David  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:23:46pm

Nick Berg's father is blaming Bush. WTF?

207 Melissa  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:23:53pm

My Timeline:

General Myers asks Dan Rather not to air the jail pictures while hostages were being held in Iraq.

General Myers warned that hostages might die.

Dan Rather didn't want to get scooped by Seymour Hersh in the New Yorker.

Dan Rather runs the pictures.

The world reacts in horror.

Nick Berg gets his head cut off.

General Myers was right.

***

You know, it would be one thing if these pictures had stopped some sort of ongoing abuse by our military; however, the mistreatment -- and don't anyone dare call it an atrocity -- of prisoners at AG had already been stopped by our military. It wasn't as if CBS was going to be righting any wrongs. The American military did that.

We have an entirely irresponsible out-of-control media.

Dan Rather gave it one week but then didn't want to be scooped by the New Yorker. Away it went.

208 ThePunk  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:24:28pm

Can you hear...

Dan Rather is laughing...He is thinking this will make it rougher for Bush.

Ted Kennedy is laughing...We have Bush now!!


I wish it was Rather's and Ted's throat being slit by the Islamic Assholes. I'd pay to see that video!!

Dan and Ted are traitors to America. Pure and Simple. They do what they do for political gain only...and to hell with how it hurts our great country.

209 jrdroll  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:24:32pm

#198 MszPhit

Does anyone have a punching bag I can borrow?

Post signs saying "Koran means DEATH" around mosque in your area.

210 Model4  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:24:47pm

Well, I forced myself to watch, even though I'm of the mind that deaths (and therefore lives) should not generally be cheapened by being broadcast. It's not about disrespecting Mr. Berg though. It's about honoring all the people today who should not have to share his fate, and being committed to winning this war. And I've seen Holocaust footage, and wish many more people had.

211 swede  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:24:48pm

#151, Mary

I read every day arabian/muslims media - and I know a lot about their way of thinking...

They know that America is a nation who respect ANOTHER culture. And why they win the bloody war so far.

They know that American people going to write INSTEAD of burning every symbol of Islam. And look on only one muslims country of some civilisation - Turkey. They burns Korans and forbid islamism in 60 years ago - and of cource went hard on mullahs...


Why you afraide of your enemy? When enemy already killing you? And doing that by invade your countries to first use walfare system(as in Sweden), then to gain power and then destroy West by using you own educationsystem and media!!!


Begin with massive fair - of Palestinians flags and Arabian Symbols!
They went astray - but learn that America believe in her self!!! And can stand united in armour!

212 Jim  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:24:58pm

For those who can't connect to the site originally posted, I have the file hosted on my own site:

Click here to go to the download page on my site, the download link is at the bottom of the page.

213 SleepyInSeattle  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:25:03pm

No way I could ever watch this video, I know it would hurt too much for me to watch. I could not be any more angry at filthy jihadi cowards. I hope more Iraqis will rise against the jihadi plague that's crippling many parts of the country and start eliminating the disease.

214 zulubaby  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:25:08pm

Ginger Liz (#203)

I don't know if I'm being melodramatic by crying, but I can't stop.

I tend to be a bit of a drama queen but having said that, I've been crying on and off all day and it has nothing to do with being melodramatic. I'm sick to my soul.

215 Sword of Gideon  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:26:23pm

This has been an eventful 6 weeks; first the incredible barbarism of Fallujah followed by the demonic gloating of Kos and Rall, then the LLL propaganda machine's successful demonization of our military response and the death of Pat Tillman followed by yet more depravity from the LLL, then the prison photos and still more moral equivalency in defiance of every fact or principle of logic.
Now, this unspeakable outrage and further exploitation by terror-apologist media conformists.
LLLs like Rall and Zuniga urge us to consider the rage and humliation that our actions allegedly generate in the death cult.
They pursue this line because "outrageousness" is a standard media career-building strategy.
They have yet to consider the rage their own words and actions have generated in the hearts of Americans who understand the real nature of this struggle.
This is a crisis of perception and I believe that today's atrocity is the climax.

The war is coming back to America.

216 Rand Mcnally  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:26:33pm

# 54 Zombie, I have been saying almost the same thing for a while now. I wonder if the turn around point is soon.


#124 Look at your self first. One difference is that we had the highest public offical in the free world say that what happened is wrong, and the peole involued will be brought to justise. I am waiting for a similar statement from the Islamic world. I think it will be a while.

217 hedge  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:28:30pm

#187 bob

apparently, this is called a "tilt tug", its supposed to be self-correcting.
This link should give you some interesting information on orbital oddities going back a few months.

218 CrusaderGirl  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:28:44pm

#124 Look...

Charles says you're in Italy.

Fantastic!

Why don't you read this!

1 In myself! See how twisted and broken *
Mohammed is! Before me walks Ali, his face
Cleft from chin to crown, grief–stricken.
34 All the others you see in this place
Sowed scandal and schism when they were alive,
And thus are now split wide. Each time we pace
37 Around this sad, painful road we arriveBack at the devil who slices us up once more;
Each one of this mob has just enough time to revive

Dante is so insightful, don't you think, Look...?

219 J  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:30:17pm

And the U.S. should apologize for the actions of 7 of its bad seeds. What about the Muslims? Where is their apology? God forbid we as Americans should think that the actions of a few( and I am hard pressed to think only a few) speak for the whole. I mean Islam is a religion of peace, right?. Oh the hypocracy.

Its time for the Western world to recognize that this is a war against Islam and take the gloves off. Lets send all of em to their 72 virgins and martyrdom. It is not about muslim fundamentalists, but muslims as a whole. When it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and tastes like a duck, it is a duck.

220 Maine's Michael  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:30:25pm

I'm not sure it's healthy for sensitive people to watch the video.

It's bad enough having it described in detail and to know it actually happened, and is not some movie or novel.

People can be traumatized by shit like this, and as Charles says, be careful before you commit to watching it.

Zulubaby, ya shouldna watched it . . .

221 Beagle Matamoros  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:30:29pm

#206 David

Michael Berg said he blamed the US government for creating circumstances that led to his son's death. He said if his son hadn't been detained for so long, he might have been able to leave Iraq before the violence worsened.

"I think a lot of people are fed up with the lack of civil rights this thing has caused," he said. "I don't think this administration is committed to democracy."

Berg's family said US State Department officials had told them that Berg's decapitated body was found on a highway overpass in Baghdad on Saturday.

When told about the website, Berg's father, brother and sister collapsed in their front yard.

"I knew he was decapitated before," Michael Berg said. "That manner is preferable to a long and torturous death. But I didn't want it to become public."

I think he wants to sue and make money off his brother's death. He can't sue the killers. He's also well versed in LLL propaganda.

This somehow makes a sociopathic decapitation worse. I did not know that was possible.

222 Ann  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:30:37pm

#199 DP111:

let us wait and see what happens.

I expect smugness and glee from the islamic world.

223 jrdroll  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:30:42pm

Anyone interested in a March on Washington to burn Saudi, Syria, Iran and Pali flags?

224 zipity  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:32:07pm

I wish I could be as hopeful as some of those I read here. I think the war against Islam is already lost. We hit the snooze alarm almost as soon as the dust settled after 9/11. If that didn't wake us up, what are the odds one mans slaughter going to do?

225 RightIsRight  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:32:26pm

These scumbags are nothing but rabid animals.

You don't treat a rabid animal or ponder why it became rabid. You kill it.

I only hope this country will wake up sooner than later.

226 Kix  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:32:51pm

Forget burning the flags, let's just burn Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iran and the PA to the ground.

227 zulubaby  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:32:57pm

Maine's Michael, I already watched it earlier today. I don't know why I did that but I did. I will take a tranquilizer when it's time to sleep ...

228 Me  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:33:00pm

124-

Look, I'm married and I have to little babies (thank G-d)...I'd rather be pissed on or raped or whatever all day if it were the alternative to being murdered.

I think people like you are sick and it the fact that you are grouped with me in a race of beings known as humans turns my stomach.

If you think for a moment that all of your whining and belly-aching will save you from the dark wave of Islam taking over this world, think again.

Unless the entire CIVILIZED world (that is the world outside of the approximately 57 arab countries) puts a stop to this now...you will be having your head sawed off too (if you're lucky).

You are a sick, pathetic, disgusting and despicable human being.

Wake up.

229 Free Speech Is Only For Uber-Libs  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:33:10pm

#223
I am, yes.

I've had it.

230 JimmytheClaw  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:34:10pm

actually we dont need the oil. tonight the cbs evening news ran a story on a 100% electric full size ford pickup truck that was being field tested [leased to a customer] since 98 or 99. after the 100% emission free act was defeated in california they scrubbed the electric vehicle developement. and on top of it the guys lease was up so they are demanding the truck back so they can destroy it. me thinks its time ford is called to task on this. anyone come across a link lemme know

231 aaron  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:35:19pm

Three more mirrors of the movie:

[Link: internet-haganah.info...]
[Link: internet-haganah.com...]
[Link: internet-haganah.org...]

It's roughly 5.3MB

232 I Love Islam  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:35:41pm
Anyone interested in a March on Washington to burn Saudi, Syria, Iran and Pali flags?

Yes!

Forget burning the flags, let's just burn Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iran and the PA to the ground.

Double and triple yes!!!

233 steve miller  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:36:29pm

Dear "Me"

Get a real nick, then you can stop being so prissy.

Thanks for stopping by.

234 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:36:32pm

#218
Back in 1989, some Islamofascist gang threatened to destroy Dante's tomb because the poet had portrayed Mohammed in Hell.
I am trying to find a link to that.

235 Gonzo  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:36:37pm

I've noticed the media have been really circumspect about the "statement" read by the cowardly killer in arabic, so I asked around until I found the translation.

In short, they say: "c'mon, this is what Islam requires..."

""Nation of Islam. Tidings of dawn and winds of victory have begun for God has honored us with roaring victory in Falluja.

"Nation of Islam. Is there any excuse left to sit idly by? And how can free Muslims sleep soundly as they see Islam being slaughtered, honor bleeding, photographs of shame and reports of Satanic degradation of the people of Islam, men and women, in Abu Ghraib prison?

"Where is the care, fervor and rage for the faith of God, where is the concern for the sanctities of Muslims and where is the revenge for the honor of Muslims in the crusader prisons?

"As for you Islamic scholars, you will answer to God. Do you not see ... the Muslim youth who humiliated the greatest power in history, cut off its nose and shattered its arrogance.

"Do you not see that it is time for you to learn from them the meanings of responsibility and sacrifice. Until when shall you remain like women, excelling only in ... wailing and crying?

"One person pleads with the free of the world, another with (U.N. Secretary-General) Kofi Annan, a third asks for help from (Arab League Secretary-General) Amr Moussa and a fourth calls for peaceful demonstrations as if they never heard God's order for the Prophet (Mohammad) to rally the faithful to fight.

"Have you not had your fill of the war of conferences and battle of words? Is it not time for you to take the path of jihad and carry the sword of the Prophet of prophets? We ask you not to condemn what we will do just to please the Americans.

"The Prophet, the most merciful, ordered (his army) to strike the necks of some prisoners in Badr (battle) and to kill them ... And he set a good example for us.

"As for you Bush, dog of the Christians, anticipate what will harm you and difficult days. You and your soldiers will regret the day you stepped foot in Iraq and dared to violate Muslims.

"A message to the traitorous agent (Pakistani President) Pervez Musharraf: We tell him that we wait eagerly to receive your soldiers and, by God, we will demand them before the Americans and avenge the blood of our brothers in (Afghanistan).

"As for you, mothers and wives of American soldiers, we tell you that we offered the American administration to exchange this prisoner for some prisoners in Abu Ghraib, but they refused.

"We tell you that the honor of Muslim men and women in Abu Ghraib and other (prisons) are more noble than blood and lives.

"And you will only get shroud after shroud and coffin after coffin slaughtered in this manner."

236 ThePunk  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:36:38pm

Any of you guys seen the interview with Kerry's Wife??

Could you imagine having this Euro Trash bitch as first lady!!! Jeeeze, my stomach is upset!

237 Model4  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:37:04pm

#203 Ginger Liz: You heard the parable about the guy sitting on his roof as the floodwaters rise, right? He prays and prays that God will get him out of this, and some guys come along in a canoe. They tell him to get in, he says "No, God will save me." After they leave and the waters rise even further a rescue chopper arrives and they tell him to climb up the ladder. "No, God will save me." They leave, and soon enough the water rises and he drowns.

He is thankful to find himself in the afterlife in the presence of the Lord, yet says "I have to ask, when the waters were rising, why didn't You save me?"

"What do you mean? I sent you a boat and I sent you a helicopter."

We've already been provided with every means necessary to win this war. God's role is to mold and teach and wisen us over the long term, not to cater to us in the short term. Were I to guess, He might be pretty disappointed right now at our collective lack of resolve, and our failure to fully appreciate the freedoms and prosperity we've been entrusted with. He might well think we've still got more to learn before this runs its course.

238 T. Jefferson  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:37:16pm

The truth is that many people just don’t want to know and our “major media” is only too willing to oblige them. After all, it might interfere with profits.

This video is definitely gruesome. You need to watch it anyway. You need to feel in your gut what kind of enemy we are facing.

I think that it will take another Okinawa to make any real change in the Middle East. Just taking down the local government doesn’t change the underlying culture. Until and unless this sick culture is changed, this will never end.

BTW if you haven’t already read SDB’s essay about three-way war, I would strongly suggest that you do so.

239 Donna V.  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:37:38pm

Bob, you wrote:

The men will protect the women from the foreign savages.

Sheesh, you haven't seen my LLL neighborhood. Most of the men around here couldn't protect the women from an angry toy poodle. Maybe I should head South:-)

Damn, now you've got me smiling, because a picture of what Michael Moore and Ted Rall, Ted Kennedy, Ted Koppel (Jeez, what's with the name Ted, anyhow?) would do if they had to protect women from foreign savages came into my head. I can hear Moore and Kennedy now, "Take them! I don't care what you do to them! Just, please, please don't take my hamburgers and Scotch away!"

(Kennedy really would break down fast if he had to live by Allah's rules.)

240 zulubaby  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:38:58pm
I think people like you are sick and it the fact that you are grouped with me in a race of beings known as humans turns my stomach.

I don't care.

241 Iron Fist[deleted]  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:39:01pm
242 j  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:41:34pm

OMFG, I just saw the vdeo. Words can't express how much hatred I have for these scumbags. Sign me up to press the nuke button. I'd love to be the one to send those mofo's to meet their piece of sh*t maker. I piss on Allah, if that is what Islam stands for.

243 Ginger Liz  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:41:34pm

Model4 -

I have heard that one. It just makes me think that, well, we (the West) have so many resources . . . why can't we use them? Why won't we use them?

Where's bigel? I'd rather I got nuked than have to watch anything like that again.*

*Not a throwaway comment, I actually mean that. I watched Daniel Pearl murdered, I watched Kos's "mercenaries" murdered, and now this. When are we civilised people going to say No More?

244 JimmytheClaw  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:42:25pm

charles look at yourself is a troll from robert spencers site a few people asked about the video there so i sent em here sorry bout the trolls just figured the good posters might wanna use your blog

245 Ginger Liz  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:43:02pm

(I'm going to my best mate's house now, it's 1:40am and I'm v. drunk, and I don't want to be on my own now. TTFN.)

246 Thousand Sons  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:43:17pm

Meanwhile over at Kos

Oh, and remember that Bush could've taken out al Zarqawi in 2002, but didn't because it would've hurt his case for his Iraq invasion.
In June 2002, U.S. officials say intelligence had revealed that Zarqawi and members of al-Qaida had set up a weapons lab at Kirma, in northern Iraq, producing deadly ricin and cyanide.

But...but...wouldnt that have been illegal? Against UN Mandate? Unilateral?

These LLL's are only for decisive, unilateral military action in the goddam past where we cant get to without a freaking time machine!

If Bush HAD done this, the LLL would bleat and scream!
Oh, and now suddenly Kos has absolute faith in US intelligence? This post says that he believe there were WMD's in Iraq! The very things that the LLL say werent there.

What an incredible asshole. Sherman, set the wayback machine on random. I want to kick someones ass. In the past!

247 Ann  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:43:35pm

#226 Kix:

Thank you. Finally a good, hard laugh today!

Yea. The impotent burn flags. Those who can should do.

248 Al-Qaeda for Kerry  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:45:02pm

The more violent the enemy becomes, the more the media seems to drift towards them. So, here is a radical proposal - let's decapitate Jennings, torch Andy Rooney, and dragged Aaron Browns smirking little corpse through the streets of, say, Pittsburgh. Maybe the media will then start to sympathize with OUR views more. Civil War in ten years.

249 MszPhit  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:45:07pm

#204 Zulubaby

"Yeah, I could find my people at church too but they don't let me smoke and drink in church.

MszPhit, that's the first time I've really laughed today. Thanks :-) "


You really mustn't encourage me like that. ;-)

Being able to laugh in spite of things keeps me sane. That's why I like it here.

Maybe I should change my nic to HereIfit? LOL

250 jrdroll  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:45:08pm

"Arab Street" : Would you like some Kool Aide?

251 Ann[deleted]  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:45:11pm
252 zulubaby  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:46:12pm

MszPhit, I am able to laugh in most situations but today has been unbearable.

253 Vigil  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:46:28pm

The night will erupt in flames wherever, whenever they dare to sleep.
Morning will come without their vile souls.
Only their charred bodies will hang beneath the bridges as day breaks.
Only their charred bodies will answer the call to prayer by spinning clockwise, then countering, only to spin again.
Mourning will not come, eventually.
Only their charred bodies;;;

254 brianstien  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:47:05pm

Iron Fist

Sounds like the American Street is waking up...

I hope you're right. But I fear you're wrong. Kobe entered his plea today, don'tcha know.

255 possum  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:47:30pm

Went looking for the video and runned up on this site. I've seen the Pearl video. I've seen the chechen video.

Americans can't figure this one out, how to respond. In reality, the whole Moslem world is a tiny threat. Late 20th century media takes what goes on between them and the western world and blows it up a million fold. The video is an example. That's the best they can do. Stop and think about that for a minute. The germans quielty and calmly got the jews and others to queue up in an orderly manner before they gassed them and used their body parts to stuff pillows and make lampshades. Several million people. And the germans would have dominated the world eventually if they hadn't had the audacity to declare war on everyone except the japanese at the same time. The islamist snatch someone here, somewone there and make a video of their murder and put it out and its impact is way beyond the reality of what these people are capable of. 9/11 was their crowning glory.. probably. And even if they set of a nuke or dirty bomb, they won't come within a mile of doing the damage that was done to europe during the second world war or america during the civil war.

The western world does not have the resolve to make a punic example of the islamic world. And quite frankly the moslem world doesn't pose the threat to the western world that carthage did to rome. Learn to live with that and maybe we can use the intellect and detachment that we possess thanks to the almighty to come up with a solution to this problem that works. As mad as you are now, I suspect that most of you given a period of time to get this in perspective, would not push the button that would wipe out the moslem world.

We have the technology and the the wherewithal to deal with this problem somehow. The sooner we figure it out, the better off we will all be.

As someone once said.. we have nothing to fear to fear itself.

256 Donna V.  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:49:30pm

zulu: I think that #240 was referring to the Eurotrash troll who paid us a visit earlier and not to LGFers.

257 I Love Islam  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:49:50pm
Learn to live with that and maybe we can use the intellect and detachment that we possess thanks to the almighty to come up with a solution to this problem that works.

Sad, flawed, disturbing deadly illogic.

258 Model4  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:50:06pm

Ginger, if you made it back I hope the time with your friend was comforting.

If it helps, think of Britain during those dark days in Europe. She stood virtually alone while the darkness reached out to consume her, and millions were saying "Hitler's not that bad. Surely some sort of accomodation can be reached. And fighting him will surely be worse than sitting back and seeing what he wants."

Fortunately in time, others finally joined the fight and triumphed over evil, as bleak as the odds looked. Of course this was at tremendous cost because we waited so long while the darkness grew ever stronger. Let's hope this is a mistake we won't repeat.

259 jrdroll  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:50:26pm

#247 ann

Yea. The impotent burn flags. Those who can should do.


Their video upsets you. Do you not think some video action on al-jiz from this side might not give them something to think about?
Nuke Mecca Now

260 brett  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:50:56pm

There's only one thing I can do: make sure to vote in November for Bush.

Democrats appeased Muslim savages, and Republicans are fighting them. If the rules are that belittling pictures is responded to by beheading civilians, then fine. Let the cycle of violence widen by these rules. Humiliation begets beheadding; beheadding begets carpet bombing. Fuck these people, and fuck their religion.

261 Phil  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:51:23pm

I haven't seen the video, only the graphic stills that are hosted on [Link: www.informationclearinghouse.info...]

Can anyone explain why the timestamp on the stills vary so much? Are these from two cameras? Example, pictures start at 2:18:41, he's obviously dead in one marked 2:46:18 but alive in one marked 13:45:47.

262 zipity  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:52:02pm

Wish I could be as sanguine about this as Possum. Unfortunately, I think we are too fat and happy. Maybe we should have all television shut off nationwide for one week to have a national discussion about this. *SNORT* I kill myself...

263 Cataplut  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:52:11pm

Where are the Teddy Roosevelt's;Harry Truman's; Winston Churchills;FDR's;Bavid Ben Gurion's; JFK's; et al. Where have you gone Joe Dimaggio...

264 nijenna  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:52:59pm

>I'm not bigoted against ALL Muslims...just the ones who hate Americans and Jews.

265 CrusaderGirl  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:53:37pm

#234

You're right.

And Muslims planned to bomb the ancient and beautiful Cremona cathedral because it protrays Mohamed in Hell.

A link to this is here.

I've since given up believing that there are only a "few" muslims who would do something like this.

They're all heading to the same place their fucking prophet dwells.

Hell.

266 Harlan Pepper  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:53:49pm

#69 Li'l Mamzer

And today's word from CAIR is what?

I thought the video was today's word from CAIR.

267 Wild Justice  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:55:04pm

On horrendous days such as these, when parents mourn their slain children, I think of this passage from "Zen Flesh, Zen Bones" and despise our enemies anew – those wretched beasts whose aim is to destroy "the natural course of life," of all life, in fact, but theirs.

A rich man asked Sengai to write something for the continued prosperity of his family so that it might be treasured from generation to generation.

Sengai obtained a large sheet of paper and wrote: "Father dies, son dies, grandson dies."

The rich man became angry. "I asked you to write something for the happiness of my family! Why do you make such a joke as this?"

"No joke is intended," explained Sengai. "If before you yourself die your son should die, this would grieve your greatly. If your grandson should pass away before your son, both of you would be broken-hearted. if your family, generation after generation, passes away in the order I have named, it will be the natural course of life. I call this real prosperity."

268 Model4  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:56:42pm

#255 possum: During WWII we weren't praising Nazism and celebrating it both at home and abroad, and claiming to be waging war only against "some few Germans who have twisted and corrupted a great and compassionate political ideology." We didn't say we would spare the leaders of Japan, Italy and Germany and their economies and infrastructure while we hoped they'd stick to their beliefs, yet somehow change their behavior. We didn't hold back our military strength. And we didn't have practicing Nazis swarming into our nations demanding acceptance here while they tried to destroy our governments and way of life.

If you don't see the danger in what we are (not) facing today, tomorrow might be too late.

269 Andyzero  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:58:50pm

CAIR's response

[Link: www.cair-net.org...]

Interesting what a form letter the condemnation is. No details whatsover. Also, they're very careful to say why Al-Queda did it ("in response to the ongoing Iraq prison abuse scandal") and give a response that seems to suggest they agree. (But worded in legalese to be safe)

"We call on people of all faiths and cultures to work together for peace and reconciliation, not war and destruction."


Other Arab responses... (at least the one's in english)
[Link: www.arabnews.com...]

[Link: english.aljazeera.net...]

270 zipity  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:59:07pm

#268 We also didn't have live streaming video from Omaha Beach on D-Day. If we had would the war have been continued or won?

271 William  Tue, May 11, 2004 3:59:20pm
I thought September 11 was a big enough shock to the American public that we wouldn't dare go back to sleep.

Unfortunately, I no longer believe that, and that's why I'm posting a link to this goddamned obscenity.

Unfortunately, I think you are right.

While not a scientific poll, these below CNN poll results are troubling indeed:


"Are U.S. goals in Iraq worth the cost?"

      28% - Yes (11,307 votes)
      72% - No (29,585 votes)

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

If bringing democracy to the Mideast in an effort to end the cesspool of hate and ignorance that springs from that breeding ground is "not worth the cost," then what is?

Out nation will suffer a grave and serious attack -- it is coming, thousands will die -- and perhaps then people will wake up.

If losing American soldiers abroad in the endeavor of preserving hundreds of thousands of American lives at home is "not worth the cost" then Bin Laden was right, America is a soft country, unwilling to fight.

Here's what the islamic terrorist had to say in 1996 -- this is critically important to read and understand:


Few days ago the news agencies had reported that the Defence Secretary [William Perry] of the Crusading Americans had said that "the explosion at Riyadh and Al-Khobar had taught him one lesson: that is not to withdraw when attacked by coward terrorists".

We say to the Defence Secretary that his talk can induce a grieving mother to laughter! and shows the fears that had enshrined you all. Where was this false courage of yours when the explosion in Beirut took place on 1983 AD (1403 A.H). You were turned into scattered pits and pieces at that time; 241 mainly marines solders were killed. And where was this courage of yours when two explosions made you to leave Aden in lees than twenty four hours!

But your most disgraceful case was in Somalia; where -- after vigorous propaganda about the power of the USA and its post cold war leadership of the new world order -- you moved tens of thousands of international force, including twenty eight thousands American solders into Somalia. However, when tens of your solders were killed in minor battles and one American Pilot was dragged in the streets of Mogadishu you left the area carrying disappointment, humiliation, defeat and your dead with you. Clinton appeared in front of the whole world threatening and promising revenge, but these threats were merely a preparation for withdrawal. You have been disgraced by Allah and you withdrew; the extent of your impotence and weaknesses became very clear.

[Link: www.pbs.org...]

272 Ann  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:00:26pm

Busy night. #251, Charles?

All you guys worried about us girls...

I have a 30-40 Krag, 32 Winchester deer rifle, double barrel .20, Glock .45, etc. No time to list them all...

273 brianstien  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:00:41pm

zipity

Possum isn't sangine:

In reality, the whole Moslem world is a tiny threat.

Just stupid.

274 MszPhit  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:01:27pm

#252 Zulubaby


I hear ya'! It's when I woke up with my whole chin bruised from chewing the crap out of my lip from my news nightmares from keeping up with the news for a short while. I had to take a break. And when I come back I get this shit. Pali's holding heads for hostage and another having his head hacked off.

What is it with the heads? Do you think these "its" think that they will benefit from someone who actually has brains? /not trying to be funny at all

275 Ranbutan  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:01:27pm

#92 zulubaby

Hi there... :-)

276 Albertanator  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:01:57pm

I cannot watch this film...not at this time...hopefully never...to this day, I have never watched the Pearl beheading either...

Folks, I already know what Islam is all about...it is the Nazism of our day...and God help us all if we in the West do not awaken to its goals!!!

My prayers go out to the Berg family...

Devon Hill

277 CrusaderGirl  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:02:38pm

#269

You beat me to it. Here's the entire CAIR statement:

American Muslim News Briefs
Tuesday, May 11, 2004

CAIR condemns murder of American in Iraq

The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) today condemned the murder of an American civilian in Iraq by a group claiming links to Al-Qaeda.

A video posted on an Internet web site shows the beheading of a Philadelphia man working as a contractor in Iraq whose body was found on a highway overpass in Baghdad on Saturday. The group that carried out the killing said it was in retaliation for the ongoing Iraq prison abuse scandal.

In its statement, the Washington-based Islamic civil rights and advocacy group said:

"We condemn this cold-blooded murder and repudiate all those who commit such acts of mindless violence in the name of religion. We call on people of all faiths and cultures to work together for peace and reconciliation, not war and destruction."

CAIR, America's largest Islamic civil liberties group, has 26 regional offices and chapters nationwide and in Canada.

A God-forsaken organization, for a God-forsaken people.

278 Steve  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:03:37pm

After watching this video, I think we need to hit these guys where it hurts.

Let's educate their women and develop a hydrogen economy.

279 zipity  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:03:52pm

NPR top of the hour news lead with: TA-DA The prisoner story. The murder of an American was #2. Just in case you didn't know where their loyalty lies...

280 emo  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:04:41pm

#261

The stills are in sequence - it's the counter on the video that's inconsistent.

My guess is that some of the Religion of Peace speech before the atrocity was edited out by the Islamosavages, but there's no way on earth I'm watching that video again to check.

281 tomkat  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:05:00pm

#203 Ginger

God is there, honey. He is totally in control and if those Islamofascistmurderingbastards don't get what's coming to them in this life, they will certainly get it in the next. You can count on that.

282 RightIsRight  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:06:19pm

Ollie North on Fox is pulling no punches speaking out against Islam.

Fatwa and seething to follow.

283 Golden Boy  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:07:14pm

Cant watch it. My guess is, anyone reading this site doesnt need to watch such horror to remember why we have to beat these islamic savages.

284 brianstien  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:07:19pm

#279 zipity

Aren't you proud that your tax dollars fund NPR?

285 AU  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:09:14pm

I : ILL

S: SAVAGERY

L: LEGALLY

A: ACCEPTABLE to

M: MUSLIMS

286 Dar ul Harbarian  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:10:38pm

I just watched it.

Rotten monsters.

I recommend public executions of the detainees at Guantanomo...

...naked and by women executioners.

287 okimutt  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:16:59pm

Crusadergirl- What did the Arabic translation say?

288 Bob  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:17:08pm

#217 hedge

Thank you.

#239 Donna V.

Sounds like a creepy neighborhood.

Real men still exist.

289 Ann  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:17:53pm

Thanks, Charles.

Islamist from...?

^spit^. Black pajammed, hooded MF, come in my yard.

290 Ral  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:18:36pm
Watch it, if you think you can. It’s going to make you sick, and it’s going to make you mad.

The scum who murdered this poor chap want us to watch it, get upset by it, feel we are losing, get scared, and run away. They want us to watch it. I refuse point blank to do anything these vile creatures want.

Please Charles remove the links and post a picture of Berg alive so the last image people will have of him is of the man America can feel proud of not the victim of these bits of scum.

I think this puts an end to any complaints about the ill treatment of Iraqi POWs until such time as the US turns into the sort of country that saw off the heads of living people, ie never.

291 possum  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:19:50pm

#268 model4..

What we face today is not comparable in true danger compared to what germany/japan/italy posed to the world in wwII. Could any moslem country or combination of moslem countries even begin to pose that threat. Sheese.. they all got together on more than one occassion against israel and got their butts handed to them by that little nation of determined folk. Think about that one for a minute. We are over here across the ocean with enough nukes in one sub to kill every living moslem on earth and the israelis are right there in the middle east literally surrounded by these crazed people and does anyone think that israel is going to be anihilated?? If israel decided to take out syria does anyone think they would fail, even if all other moslem countries joined in the fray?

To me the biggest problem with the islamic threat is that it is not big enough to warrant a wwII type action yet it continues to seek to kill infidels. We just are not bad enough to put the poor bastars out of our misery. So we need to figure something else out.

And 271 william. Just my take. But democracy aint for everyone. I think we are being naive to think that the islamic countries will be grateful for a world outlook that is basically foreign to them. If you look into islamic teachings you will find that in all cases, the type of government we have is literally evil and unacceptable to a practicing moslem. Supposedly the koran and hadith teach that people are to be ruled by sahira law enforced by clerics and that it is a sin to support a form of government that is secular and not based on the teachings of mohamed.

292 hedge  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:23:27pm

#278 steve

ditto.

#288 bob

no prob. I thought it strange that the moon looked like it skipped 2 days in waning, but shrugged it off as effect of the eclipse. maybe we are having some magnetic field fluctuations?

293 Look at yourself first  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:28:14pm

#139: wow the magic of IPs ! Yeah I don't hide, were are you from ? And why is it relevant I'm in Italy ? I could be from Mars that wouldn't mean what I say is less good then what you say.

#144: Calling me names , k12 stuff. But anyway, they have lives allright, at least I hope so. Ask anybody who was subjected to torture if they ever completely recovered from it. Some probably did, some other may not. Death puts an end to sufferings and joys of any kind, while if you are alive you can still remember and suffer.

#149: Not since the U.S. helped us get rid of Nazism. We're now doing our part helping U.S. dealing with terrorism, at least in Italy.

#165 I condemn both actions ; the poor dude died indeed, but his misery was relatively quick. The prisoners are likely to still suffer for many years, or maybe they'll forget in a while ; and we still don't know if they were beaten as well , which is very likely. Which is better, being killed or being tortured ? I think neither, both are atrocious and despicable.

#124 I disagree. Both torture and quick/slow/anyspeed killing are despicable.

#176 Sorry if I made you feel sick ; sometimes this happens when one realizes he may be wrong.

#199 The problem is that there is no Islamic Leader kind of "Pope" that I know about who could apologize for all Islam. Honestly I don't remember if GWB used the word "apology", but I'm confident he did so I'll assume he did, until the contrary is proved.
Anyway GWB apologized because he's the ultimate responsible, as far as I know, of the military in this situation. Therefore I think it was his -duty- to do so, not only from a political point of view, but from a military one. We could also notice that holy chants
can be used by anybody, but that doesn't make the source of holy chants evil by association, as much as a group of felons in the military doesn't make all of the military felons.

#218 Dante is splendid, but consider the age from which he wrote. Holy wars run to mind, lotsa propaganda back then as much as these days. It's interesting you mention a time in which brutality was much more common then today...or was it ?

#228 So you prefer to be raped instead of being killed ? I'd rather be neither raped or killed. The guy wasn't given a choice as much as the prisoners weren't. So I guess this is not about choosing a lesser evil, it's about not getting derailed into an holy war.

294 thinkingmom  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:28:35pm

Ladies and Gentlemen:

Here is Evil.

And it must be fought. When I think of our media obsessing over Iraqi prisoner mistreatment in the light of this, the butchering of the pregnant Israeli and her young daughters, and on and on, I almost despair.

295 ThePunk  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:28:57pm

#291

But democracy aint for everyone
If you look into islamic teachings you will find that in all cases, the type of government we have is literally evil and unacceptable to a practicing moslem.

Here is an Idea! Lets introduce them to Jesus!!
Lets make them Christians...Send in the Crusaders...Restart the Inqusition!

SOMEBODY GET THE POPE ON THE PHONE!

296 Right Wing Conspirator  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:29:21pm

Breaking News

‘60 Minutes II’ to air controversial footage

Can it be true !!! Really ?!?

NEW YORK - A video that shows a young American soldier saying “who cares?” about Iraqi prisoners who died will air on “60 Minutes II.”

Oh, of course not. Did you expect anything else.

297 Sage McLaughlin  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:31:49pm

May Jesus' mercy be upon them all.

298 Harlan Pepper  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:33:57pm

Interesting, nothing at all about this subhuman act on any of the network's 10:00 news teasers. -Unlike the last two weeks where it was all Lynndie English - all the time.

Anyhoo, I hope to G-d this event puts things in perspective for all those who were/are dutifully wringing their hands over abu ghairb.

I'm not generally a violent man, but if we get the neanderthals who perpetrated this vile savagry - I'd be first in line with a case of them thar glow sticks, if you catch my drift.

299 CrusaderGirl  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:34:03pm

#287

The arabic translation of the CAIR statement?

I haven't a clue.

300 lazytart  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:36:13pm

Look at yourself...

It is because of people precisely like you that this evil stomps freely around the earth.

301 Nekama Johnson  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:36:20pm

Bush ought to raffle off the opportunity to push the button that nukes the mullahs of Iran and Saudi Arabia.

Incinerate the vermin and solve our budget issues at the same time.

302 Cam  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:36:39pm

#293 Look at yourself:

The prisoners had a choice. They could have chosen not to participate in terrorism and thuggery and not been in that situation at all. True, Mr. Berg had the choice not to go to Iraq, but it seems he was making an honourable choice to try and help out in a nasty place. For all the Arab world's yapping about the importance of "honour" in their culture, they seem to know sweet fuck all about behaving honourably.

303 Kevin Shook  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:37:33pm

Sick mother fuckers! Why the hell are we pussy-footing around with these assholes. They should have flattened Fullajah and Najaf. It is the only thing these assholes understand.

304 IowaInfidel  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:38:55pm

I can't bring myself to watch it. This is such a vile and inhuman act, that I can't find the words to denounce it.

Islam is sh*t. I will no longer give it any of my respect, not that I had much for it before. I refuse to use any arabic words. No more jihad - it's a war. No more hajib - it's a damn headscarf. No more burka - it's a f*cking sack. No more giving 'islam' and 'moslem' the respect of capitalizing them. No more thinking that allah is the same as the Jewish and Christian G*d.

F*ck those f*ckers and all the f*cking pig slime that support them by their silence and inaction.

305 Kelly  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:40:24pm

The events at the Abu Ghraib prison were abuse - shameful, embarrassing, and absolutely unacceptable. This is torture, and pure evil. You have to be seriously F'ed in the head to play moral equivalence with this one.

306 Where is Sen. Kennedy when you need him?  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:42:08pm

We didn't hear him bitch about abuse when our POW were raped and murdered on the spot.

[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

"Lynch was captured and injured in the early days of the Iraq invasion. She was later rescued by U.S. troops. According to medical records cited in her biography, she was also sodomized, apparently during a three-hour gap that she cannot recall."

307 Sage McLaughlin  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:43:26pm

lazytart, I hope that remark isn't directed at me. If it wasn't, quit reading now.

If it was, allow me to clarify that I pray for Jesus' mercy to be upon them all...because they really need it. I also pray that the wrath of the U.S. Armed Forces turns them into grease spots before they can do anything like this again.

308 twisterella  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:43:52pm

#202 Bob: aren't you sweet..:-)

But

#196 RWC: I was referring to the intent, not How I'd deal with it-- I'm no girly grrrl! Igrew up with guns (and dogs and horses) and I'll have you know I was captain of my fencing team in college! My preferred weapon is the epee! Do you know it?

309 Alan  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:44:34pm

Just watched the video... what a bunch of disgusting savages.

Anyone interested in a March on Washington to burn Saudi, Syria, Iran and Pali flags?

My Spanish teacher from a few years back had little flags from almost every country in her room. After 9-11, I saw every Arabic flag she had laying in her garbage, too bad she didn't burn them...

Who wants to bet we'll be hearing about the prisoner abuse MUCH longer than this awful beheading?

310 Vigil  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:45:02pm

Reach out and touch someone:

Pick five Arab names out of the phone book tomorrow.
Call them and give the other end a piece of your mind about their lack of outrage. Do the same thing the next night and the next.

311 zipity  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:46:32pm

Oh the horror... We have to try to understand why WE made them do this. They didn't want to. We made them. More vodka please...

312 Powderfinger  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:47:26pm

#302 Cam

For all the Arab world's yapping about the importance of "honour" in their culture, they seem to know sweet fuck all about behaving honourably.

Amen.

But you don't have to be honorable with kufr.

313 Right Wing Conspirator  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:48:10pm

#293

We're now doing our part helping U.S. dealing with terrorism, at least in Italy.


Yeah...thanks for the help. So generous. Just trying to protect your asses. Don't worry though, you will be subjected to Sharia long before the US will. And if we have learned anything, we will let you be and not sacrifice ourselves for your mistakes.

314 mbennett  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:48:11pm

Charles,

Thanks for posting this. I watched Daniel Pearl's murder on the web after 9-11, I count that as a turning point in killing my "peace is what everyone wants" belief. Like you, I asked "why do they hate us" after that black day, and in the months proceeding I learned why, and how deep.

These people are the worst scum that have ever existed, and need to be brutally crushed to serve as warning to their would-be murdering co-religionists. This is an existential war.

Every adult American should be forced to see this.

315 Powderfinger  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:49:50pm

#310 Vigil

Yeah, that will help. Unless you get evariste.

GAZE

316 lazytart  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:54:35pm

#307, Sage, it wasn't meant for you. It was for the disgusting individual posting under the moniker "Look at yourself first"... above.

Sorry.

317 Ann  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:55:42pm

Too weary to post.

The American Street is seething.

318 Right Wing Conspirator  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:56:22pm

#308 twisterella

#196 RWC: I was referring to the intent, not How I'd deal with it-- I'm no girly grrrl! Igrew up with guns (and dogs and horses) and I'll have you know I was captain of my fencing team in college! My preferred weapon is the epee! Do you know it?

I KNOW that I am unforgettable and you can't keep me off of your mind, but #196 was Iron Fist hon :-P

#307 Sage McLaughlin

I believe lazytart was talking to the Italian troll - 'look at yourself in the mirror' or whatever the hell his nic is.

319 Ed Moran:Abu Das ist doch alles Kinderkacke hier  Tue, May 11, 2004 4:58:09pm

291


Well, lets see, the RoP was able to kill 3000 people and devastate the economy. If a few "breaks" had gone their way, they might have taken out the Capitol or White House that day. I read somewhere, in 1993, that if the truck bomb had been parked a little farther down the driveway in the underground parking garage, the Islamic radicals may have actually achieved their goal of toppling a WTC tower, which might have killed 20,000 people.

They have shown they have the power to change governments of (former) US allies.

Now some of the regimes most supportive of Islamic facism are working on developing nuclear weapons.

I think the Japanese would have been happy owning the Pacific sphere west of and including Hawaii.

Islam won't be happy until it subjugates the world.

320 David, TPFKADTTL  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:00:44pm

By the time I hit "post..." I should be 'round #320...


Had to weigh in...

nearly speechless.

321 ziptiy  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:02:28pm

I sit here on my back porch in North Dakota, smoking a cigar, and wondering where this will all lead. I find myself wondering what Wall Street will make of this. Uncertainty is the bane of capitalism. And I wallow in despair. America is a sleeping giant. Unfortunately I think we may be sleep deprived. I don't think we can be roused. May I be wrong...

322 Eff everything that Islam Stands For  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:03:04pm

animals.

if they are such proud men, why must they wear masks? we must have only one response. kill every last one of them. period.

323 Infidel and LOVIN it!  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:03:12pm

Democracy will not be possible in an islamic country, they cannot separate church and state because islam IS their law...they listen to the twisted ramblings of an illiterate sex crazed pedophile and want to be "like the prophet"...to compare a muslim being humiliated because a woman laughed at his wee willy to the brutality that the muslims regularly practice (sometimes even against their own) is nonsense...to compare Mr. Bergs murder with a few muslim mens "honor" (if they had any to begin with) being bruised is just sick...how do we know that Mr. Berg didnt suffer, he was probably terrified...to compare this with a few muslim men having their egos bruised (havent seen any concrete evidence they were beaten..even so doesnt compare to a beheading) and it will take "years" for them get over the humiliation...thats pure BS...time for Bush to act, do something now. I think we are all tired of being PC, just do what needs doing.

324 Cam  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:03:46pm

#321 zipity:

Wow, you have a'puter on your back deck? Skookum...

325 Kat  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:08:54pm

293--give me a break. These fucking people turn themselves into pretzels screaming about prisoner abuse while there is no worse prisoner abuse in the world than that found in Arab prisons. Hell, just ask William Sampson about REAL torture. Arabs are the whiniest cowards going.

326 zipity  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:09:27pm

wireless networks rule. but it is getting too dark to see the keyboard

327 Birdgunner  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:10:48pm

#124 "Look at yourself first",

Attention, moron. The age of moral relativism died with the 3000 incinerated in the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks.

Some things ARE better than others. For example,

- freedom is better than slavery
- democracy is better than theocracy
- representative government is better than dictatorship
- liberty of thought and speech is better than censorship
- living in peace is better than living in fear
- respect for women is better than hacking their genitalia off with a sharp rock
- divorce by litigation is better than stoning women to death for alleged adultery
- community service is better than cutting off hands for minor offences

...and the list goes on.

These are NOT relative values, these are absolutes, and the western world - your evident self-hatred notwithstanding - exemplifies these truths. Millions fought and died to give you the freedom to despise them and damn their efforts, and yet they would die their deaths again, if they could, to guarantee your right to do curse them. That vermin such as you are allowed to exist and spout your ignorant venom unmolested is the greatest possible testimony to the strength of the vision and courage of the west.

You may note that I left out one comparison - the inane notion that peace is better than war. I left it out because it is not an absolute; occasionally you have to fight in order to secure your right to live in peace. Peace is not better than war if it is bought at the expense of your children being blown up on schoolbuses, or of mothers and fathers being incinerated by slogan-chanting religious fanatics exercised about the expulsion of the Moors from Spain more than 500 years ago. Peace is not better than war if it means living on your knees in fear of your life. Peace is not better than war if it means one of your citizens can have his head hacked off on a dirty floor by a hooting gang of bloodthirsty thugs because they think God said it was okay.

Wake up and smell the jet fuel, the blood and the cordite, my man. This war is not of our choosing, but we - and by "we" I mean those who believe we have to fight in order to survive - have taken up the sword to defend the values I have listed above.

You may not think that we are at war with militant Islam, but frankly it doesn't matter what YOU think. They are at war with us. And it is war to the knife. So you, like all of the rest of us, have two choices. Sharpen your knife - or wash your neck.

328 eff them all  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:11:08pm

This is a redundant comment, and i know you all have discussed this previously. But what is the deal with the masks? If you are so brave, show your face!

329 Andrew B.  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:13:06pm

Dear God,

I am so sick beyond belief...words fail me.

Andrew B.

330 twisterella  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:14:24pm

It is good to smile a bit. Iron Fist, RWC, apologies-- I will never confuse you two again! :-)

331 Donna V.  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:15:08pm

Look at yourself first wrote this amazing bit of idiocy:

I condemn both actions ; the poor dude died indeed, but his misery was relatively quick. The prisoners are likely to still suffer for many years, or maybe they'll forget in a while ; and we still don't know if they were beaten as well , which is very likely. Which is better, being killed or being tortured ? I think neither, both are atrocious and despicable.

"His misery was relatively quick?" I'm sure that to "the poor dude" (rather a jocular way of referring to the victim of a brutal murder) those moments of pain and terror lasted forever before he finally died. His death was not that quick.

I have a friend who was once raped and badly beaten. She does not say "which is better being killed or being tortured? I think neither." She thanks G-d she's alive.

Your stupid, glib moral equivilance is exactly what Fallaci has in mind when she writes that Europe is headed straight down the toliet.

332 ansonicus  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:16:02pm

This war will only end when we have killed enough of them to make an impression. I am sad to say this.

The Democrat/liberals are only prolonging the agony.

333 AU  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:17:09pm

There is no question in my mind that after watching this video, there is only one solution.

You have to burn the nest, the breeding ground.

Tactical nukes were made for a reason. Take out Tehran, take out Mecca, Medina, Rihyad. Falluja, Karbala, and every single nest and nerve center of Islamofacisim.

Take them out.


BIGEL is right.

334 William  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:18:43pm
Just my take. But democracy aint for everyone. I think we are being naive to think that the islamic countries will be grateful for a world outlook that is basically foreign to them.

Being 'grateful' was never a concern. I don't now if Japan is grateful for being a democracy, and I don't really care.  All I know is that they are today a peaceful country, and their culture was wildly different from Western countries in 1945.

It painfully obvious there are two options.

1) Change the culture of the muslim world by injecting freedom, basic human rights, and tolerance, into the region.

2) Change the culture of the muslim world by leveling it with nuclear weapons.

I had hoped method #1 would be effective, and it's sad that many Americans feel it's not worth the effort.  However, most who reject option #1 certainly do not embrace option #2, but instead an imaginary option #3, which does not exist.

Let's finish the war in Iraq.  Escalate.  Snipe from 1,000 yards.  Destroy entire buildings housing terrorists.  Destroy entire mosques housing terrorists. 

Make no apologies.  Win the war.
 

335 ziphius  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:19:02pm

#255 possum

"And quite frankly the moslem world doesn't pose the threat to the western world that carthage did to rome."

If they get the oil "weapon" (control over SA'a oil reserves) they can cripple the west. Oil deprivation is the mother of all WMDs.

z

336 AU  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:19:05pm

WHERE IS STALIN WHEN YOU NEED HIM?

I BECKON STALIN. RISE FROM THE DEAD, STALIN.

GIVE HIM THE PORTOFOLIO TO RID THE WORLD OF ISLAMOFACISIM.

337 chef  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:19:20pm

Okay, I just watched it.

As they saw his head off they shout "G#d is great"

Is this G#d's work?

Savages.

338 Free Speech Is Only For Uber-Libs  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:20:34pm

And the left tells us we must respect and tolerate these death cultists.
If we don't – the left will call us Nazis and bigots and racists.
See – even though Hitler and the Islamists have/had the same thing in mind – the propaganda from the left is that we are horrible racists unless with side with the "victim" Islamists

339 Ted Engel  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:20:44pm

Andrew Sullivan has it exactly right:

WHERE IS THE WEBSITE? The mainstream media is driving me bonkers. They keep referring to an al Qaeda website that carries the video of the beheading of Nick Berg. But they won't tell us the name of the website! Not only will they not show what al Qaeda really is, they won't even allow us to know how to find it. If anyone out there has a link, please let me know. We can get around the Washington Post, which has a "slideshow" of American abuse but won't even provide a link to the horrors perpetrated by the enemy.
340 Look at yourself first  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:21:03pm

#302 I was talking about the choice between death or torture , not the choice about being criminal or not criminal. Indeed Mr.Berg, as far as we know, was trying to help somehow and that's good and what was done to him was beyond criminal, it's appaling and horrible. So is what was done to the prisoners. But I'm not so sure as you seem to be that all the prisoners were terrorist and thugs ; even if all of them were evil criminals, one democratic nations under the rule of law must not lower to vile methods of torture and humilations, because when the law system works and democracy works the results make us SHINE in comparison to less advanced countries.

Obviously no system is perfect, but we can't go around the world telling our system is better when our system fails so evidently and so deeply.

We must NOT lower to terrorism methods and we must NOT accept that human rights are good for us, but not ok for others ; otherwise we'll fall in the trap of hypocrisy, the same hypocrisy of -part- of the Arab world you correctly mentioned. It's a much harder and difficult way, but nobody said it was going to be easy.

#313 Oh I see. So you're disagreeing with Bush who said that Italy is the best european ally for U.S. ? Watch out you're disagreeing in public, maybe you're a traitor ? And of course nothing but standard hypocrisy could come from a Right/Left Wing self proclaimed conspirator ( yeah yeah just joking ah ?) ...so I guess that sending troops to help in the bring democracy project is just "covering our asses" ? Well if so, so your guys are just covering their asses as well, so don't give me no lesson buddy.

341 pbird  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:21:30pm

I have been shielding my 31 year old daughter from the news today. I just like seeing her happy because my heart is pretty black right now. I don't know why G-d leaves mankind as a group on this planet sometimes. A cleansing fire would be nice.

342 prometheus  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:21:33pm

It was predicted:
www.poetikus.com...] target="_blank">
[Link: www.poetikus.com...]

343 House  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:27:05pm

Do we Americans have the will to fight and win? Or are there so many self apologizing liberals who truly don't understand true evil?

Could any Bush hater watch the video and really still take the side of the enemy? Sadly, the answer is yes.

I don't know if we have the will to let our soldiers do what must be done. To let our police do what they have to do. Our FBI. Our CIA. Our President.

The enemy knows we are weak in places. They see the protests. You know it gives them strength. You know they believe they can 'vietnam' us again.

And, sometimes, I think they may be correct.

No one could ever beat us if we were united. But we may be too far gone to win.

You would think this would outrage everyone. But not everyone is outraged. Not a word from the left.

344 Jamie Irons  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:27:13pm

twisterella, you wrote:

, ...How I'd deal with it-- I'm no girly grrrl! Igrew up with guns (and dogs and horses) and I'll have you know I was captain of my fencing team in college! My preferred weapon is the epee! Do you know it?

OK, twisterella--I'm no longer relating to you through poetry (too "girly girl.")

Any woman who can handle an epee is hot!

;-)

Oh, wait...I'm quite happily married. Forgot for a minute.

;-)

Jamie Irons

345 Adam  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:29:09pm

To Kofi, CAIR, Yasser, Friedman, Zogby and all other Muslim apologists, and I say this with the deepest sincerity any man has ever known, and I believe I speak for millions who share the same sentiment with the same degree of sincerity, and I say this because you are all complicit in creating an environment of tolerance for these types of acts with your obfuscations, mistruths, deceptions and lies, with your refusal to call a terrorist a terrorist for fear of offending anyone and with your demand for an apology every time a Muslim scratches his finger and either an American or a Jew is within a hundred yards, fuck you.

346 possum  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:29:20pm

ah.. 332 ansonicus

they kill themselves gleefully and it only seems to encourage them to do it more.. just look at the pictures and posters in the various palestinian areas of israel.

That's the issue here. Normal logic (western) aint gonna work.

And we aint gonna drop a nuke on em and we invaded an conqured the crap outa them and it didn't put an end to it. And americans won't condone genocide.

So wadaya gonna do about it?

347 soy_bomb  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:30:41pm

What shocked me about this video beyond the inhuman treatment of another human being was how calm Nick Berg was before his horrible death. I hope he found peace with G-d before his cruel, hideous murder.

348 Cam  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:34:41pm

#347:

Mr. Berg looked to me like he'd been pretty doped up. Not sure, but he looked awfully lethargic for someone in a room full of armed thugs.

349 zipity  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:37:31pm

This might be relevant. I can't recall the script verbatim, but I remember a movie, The Untouchables, with Sean Connery and Kevin Costner (before he sucked). The relevant line is "What are you prepared to do? He comes at you with a knife, you come back with a gun. He puts one of you guys in the hospital, you put one of his in the morgue... What are you prepared to do?" Well...?

350 William  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:37:36pm

Just watched the video of the muslim fanatics screaming "allah akbar" while murdering Nicholas.

It is time for GWB to escalate.

These savages must suffer grave consequences.

And not the lame 'surround the town' consequences of Fallujah, but the 'destroy every building in the town' consequences.

It is time for them to learn about American fury.

F*ck the apologies.

Escalate.  Win the war.
 

351 lazytart  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:37:44pm

Soybomb,

I was struck by it. Either they had tranquilized him somehow, or they lied to him. He had absolutely no clue what was about to happen.

Which made watching it all the more horrible. The sense of dread, knowing we were watching the last two minutes of that poor boy's life.

352 Stop Hillary  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:39:43pm

Gee, now "humilation" of prisoners seems civlized by comparison. Honestly, punish our out of control troops, but please we cannot afford to lose the war against these madmen. We simply cannot.

353 madmark  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:40:50pm

Most anyone that has been paying attention to my posts since I have been posting on LGF will know that I am not one to give soundbites to the "lgf watch" crowd. I have tried to measure my responses and be above the calls to excessive measures.

The brutal killings of Meirav Hatuel (along with her mother and sisters) and Nick Berg have pushed my restraint to the limit.

I am posting at this time to see if there is some way we can organize a massive protest. A previous poster put forward the call to “take to the streets” and I am very willing to do so. If there is any protest/demo organizing, I really want to be part of it.


It is unfortunate that our side does not “take to the streets” as well at the moonbats. Imagine 1,000,000 lizardoids in DC…

354 Right Wing Conspirator  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:41:19pm

#293

Death puts an end to sufferings and joys of any kind, while if you are alive you can still remember and suffer.


But you can also still experience joy and happiness, see your kids grow up, grow old with someone you love, etc...

oops, kinda throws a wrench in your equivalency system doesn't it.

Not since the U.S. helped us get rid of Nazism.


That is one way to put it, I guess. Another way would be 'we did it for you.'

The problem is that there is no Islamic Leader kind of "Pope" that I know about who could apologize for all Islam.


Well, how about we start with about 50, no - make it 30, ummm, ok 20 muslims speaking out about this.

What the fu*k am I doing, this is a waste of time and energy.

355 zipity  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:43:22pm

Still I despair. Look at the comments here. 351. Multiply that by 20. Thats 6000. Can you say voices in the wilderness. How many of us have "come out" ijn our view expressed here to our friends, family, and country men? I weep for the future...

356 AU  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:43:30pm

I'M PROUD TO SAY THAT EVERYTHING I REPRESENT IS THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT THE RoP REPRESENTS. I AM THE OPPOSITE OF A MUSLIM:

1. I RESPECT ALL RELIGIONS THAT RESPECT MINE.
2. I EAT PORK
3. I DRINK ALCOHOL
4. I RESPECT WOMEN AS EQUALS
5. IN FACT, I LOVE WOMEN
6. I BELIEVE IN MONOGAMY
7. I AM NOT A MISOGYNIST
8. I CAN READ
9. I'VE READ MORE THAN ONE BOOK
10. I'VE READ ABOUT (GIVE OR TAKE) 1500 BOOKS
11. MORALITY IS MORE IMPORTANT TO ME THAN HONOR
12. I BELIEVE IN DEMOCRACY
13. I HAVE NO INTENTION TO CONVERT ANYBODY TO MY RELIGION, NEITHER WITH WORD OR SWORD.
14. I DON'T MIND SHOWERING
15. I DON'T BLAME OTHERS FOR MY FAILURES (ie Israel)
16. I LOVE DOGS
17. I PERFER HORSES TO CAMELS
18. I'VE NEVER PRAYED FOR THE DEATH OF OTHERS (NOT EVEN MUSLIMS)
19. I'M AN INDEPENDANT THINKER
20. I DON'T HAVE A SPIRITUAL LEADER
21. I LIKE MOVIES
22. I MORN THE DEATHS A FRIEND OR FAMILY MEMBER WITH WITHOUT FIRING GUNS IN THE AIR
23. I'VE NEVER SCREAMED THE NAME OF G-D
24. I'VE NEVER SCREAMED THE NAME OF G-D WHILE HOLDING HUMAN INARDS
25. I LOVE IT WHEN MY GIRLFRIEND DRESSES LIKE A WHORE OUT IN PUBLIC, AND I KNOW SHE DOES IT JUST FOR ME.
26. I'VE NEVER THROWN STONES AT ANYBODY
27. I'VE NEVER DESACRATED A GRAVE
28. I'VE NEVER POURED GASOLINE ON SISTER OR ANYBODY.
29. I'VE NEVER HIT A WOMAN
30. I WOULD BE JUST AS HAPPY IF MY WIFE GAVE BIRTH TO A GIRL. INSTEAD OF A BOY

AND IT GOES ON AND ON AND ON AND ON

357 JC  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:45:41pm

#346 possum:

so whaddaya gonna do?

Ideas, please.

358 Radian  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:45:52pm

Ed Moran:

What is the feasability of drilling for oil through a four foot layer of glass?

We need to get back in this with heavy weapons and stop putting ground forces on harms way. Patrol with bradleys or m1's , anything that shoots gets a 25mm or 120 he shot back.

We need to pull the stops and begin killing them at a rate they can not sustain. If that fuck al sadyr is in a mosque with 3000 people, great. Drop 3 2000lb gbu's to be sure. The same treatment for the **** who steps into his place, they will run out of mosques to hide in or people to fill them. Time to put on the Iwo Jima hat. Like hitting a dog with a news paper, they will learn we are not to be fucked with.

That or we need to leave and let them cannobalize themselves.

359 chef  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:46:28pm

"I AM THE OPPOSITE OF A MUSLIM"

Here here!

360 The Black Republican  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:48:02pm

Amazing, Charles. I didn't come to LGF until I'd written my own post, and we used almost the same language - and where I didn't say it, you stated exactly what I'd been thinking when I wrote mine.

Never forget.

361 twisterella  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:51:56pm

#358 Radian: one word- slant-drilling

362 sea bass  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:53:31pm

Don't miss the delightful Metafilter thread gloating over this cinematic gem: [Link: www.metafilter.com...]

363 Eagle  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:55:20pm

I want to offer something after this horrible deed.
Something I wrote a while back...

Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

Six millions dead, Europe’s great cities brought down,
National Socialism drums no longer sound.
Hitler’s body reduced to ashes
A fitting end to the beloved Fascist.

A smoking gun of startling size,
Exposed as fact the Tyrant’s lies.
(Not fully hidden at Birkenau,
Auschwitz, Belzec, or Dachau.)

The holocaust ends, and the Nations Unite
And vow to stand for the human rights.
“Evil shall not again river forth,
We shall stop all poison at its source.”

“United Nations who know wrong from right
Peace the Nobel prize to keep in sight.”
But groups in power are unlike gold,
The old guard fades as time grows old.

All are welcomed into the fold,
To unite the world in a single mold.
The design, to follow a fools ideal,
They embrace the world as though all are equal.

New members seem strangely out of place,
Their smiles are wrong upon their face.
Blood is seen upon their hands,
Suffering exists within their lands.

Human bombs, chants of death, and flags on fire,
Are now considered just simple ire.
The assembly sings a Siren’s song,
“Do what you want, but please get along.”

They ignore the terror, ignore the rules,
The assembly becomes a ship of fools.
Guilt makes promises to share its loaves,
The emperor indeed has found new clothes.

---

While most are blinded by this ship,
The cowboy prepares for another trip.
His heart of justice cannot be moved,
International Socialism must not be soothed.

He values life, does not choose death,
And slept some time with peaceful breath.
He awoke to find his towers razed,
Can see the vipers, and a world ablaze.

Though his own do scream a fit,
He makes a stand while others sit.
He knows the battle is a mental one,
That from which the weak do run.

He trusts eyes, ears, and a mind which are his own,
With his reason as guide, he can walk alone.
Justice does not demand the consent of knaves,
But resolve from the land of the free, the home of the brave.

He will ride into the desert, with guns ablaze,
His aim is true and cannot be stayed.
It’s how the west was once won …
… And how the West will be saved.

364 PostalWorker  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:56:08pm

{By the way: Have you noticed that DailyKOS.com says of the beheading: "Violence begets violence?"}

Daily KOS is run by a nutless commie scum. He a soulless pile of bovine scat.

365 Dear g-d  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:56:56pm

Please rid the world of islam. It is a terrible, twisted version of nazism that must be violently destroyed.

All arabs must die, all muslims must be killed. There will be no other way.

366 coldwarrior  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:57:44pm

i just watched it.

rage, rage is all i feel. 10 years in the military and two advanced degrees cant stop the rage. I am supposed to be logical, thoughful, and erudite...nope, just rage, pure hate and seething blind anger.

Before I say something that I may regret I will now be off to bed...typical pussy-assed arab men, couldn't even show their faces while they did the deed...sorry, off to bed now.

367 AU  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:58:28pm

#358

no problem. oil drillers can wear radioactive suites.

Savage made a great point:
"Did we single out the SS when we bombed out Dresden?"

368 Hrolf  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:59:48pm

The prison abuse story is now dead.

369 Right Wing Conspirator  Tue, May 11, 2004 5:59:59pm

#363 Eagle

Wow. That is a great job. I think I may have to save that (with your permission, don't worry, I won't take credit for it ;-)

But seriously, good job.

370 ziipity  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:01:13pm

It might just be the vodka talking, or it could be the immenent thunderstorm/tornado, but I feel bereft. We are but a pitifull few. Even if you multiply our posts times ten, it's only a pittance. Doom is upon us...Where is my Zoloft?

371 possum  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:06:07pm

#366 coldwarrior

ah.. but rage will not solve the problem grasshopper.

Pray for clarity of vision...

372 zipity  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:06:17pm

I am speechless (that explains the keyboard) Indy Media has nothing about the MURDER of an innocent American who went to Iraq to help rebuild its infastructue. Who'da thunk it?

373 Gary Bruce  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:06:21pm

Is Bush waking up?

KARBALA, Iraq, Wednesday, May 12 — The American military attacked a mosque in this holy city in its largest assault yet against the forces of the young rebel Shiite cleric Moktada al-Sadr...

The strike on the Mukhaiyam Mosque brought hundreds of American soldiers and their armored vehicles to within a third of a mile of two of the holiest sites in Shiite Islam, the ornate shrines of the martyrs Hussein and Abbas. A building behind the mosque was fired on, detonating a huge weapons cache, and soldiers stormed the mosque, chasing insurgents out into a hotel and alley. The number of casualties could not be immediately determined.

By 3:30 a.m., some 30 insurgents had taken up positions around the Shrine of Abbas, and they appeared to be lobbing mortars from that area to the Mukhaiyam Mosque. Special Forces soldiers began organizing groups of Iraqi forces to counterattack.

Until now, American forces had kept out of Karbala and nearby Najaf, another holy city...

But before the attack, Col. Peter Mansoor, commander of the First Brigade of the First Armored Division, said military officers had met with Karbala's leaders and believed they would support the operation because they want his Mahdi Army run out of town. American forces may be banking on the belief that Mr. Sadr is loathed by the country's mainstream Shiite leaders, and that many Muslims disagree with his use of mosques as something like military bases. On Tuesday, several hundred Iraqis marched in Najaf to demand that he and his militia leave.

In the last week, the American forces attacked repeatedly in the area of Karbala, partly in preparation for the mosque attack.

On Monday night, American commanders said they had killed 13 of Mr. Sadr's militiamen in a gun battle in Kufa, which abuts Karbala. They sent a huge convoy on a night assault down the main street of the Mukhaiyam neighborhood a week ago, and have been killing insurgents there with wave after wave of patrols ever since. The Americans also detonated a major weapons cache in an amusement park last Thursday.

Earlier this week, American forces seized the governor's office in Najaf and installed Mr. Zorfi as the new governor.

374 Coral Russell  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:07:37pm

it's too bad you guys just don't get it. the bloodlust won't end because we are the pre-emptive, first strike invaders - the occupiers. they didn't invite us. do you like the war you asked for yet. listen to air america radio and get some religion because war is peace, freedom is slavery, and ignorance is strength.

375 AU  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:10:28pm

Nick Berg , RIP.

I have no doubt that, like Danny Pearl, he was killed in such a way not just because he was an American, but because he was a Jew.

376 zipity  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:11:16pm

Troll or not...AAAGHHH...

377 andreaSF  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:11:20pm

#363 Eagle -- That was a wonderful poem/song.. It almost gives me hope.

378 Darrell  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:11:35pm

Animals. I bet they sleep well tonight, all warm and fuzzy just thinking about what they did. Invoking the name of their god as they beheaded the guy, it doesn't get any more perverse than that. Kill them, kill them all. Pave everything between Israel and India.

379 Radian  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:13:54pm

374:

you are worth the $500. If we were in a bar and you had the balls to say that, I'd slap you face like the bitch you are (assuming you are a male), female, I'd just piss on your shoes, and laugh in your face. That or find some other female and pay her 500 to stomp your ass. Bail out, pay the 500 for simple assault.

BTW it worked in Japan. The trick is to kill enough people and totally crush their will to fight.

380 T. Jefferson  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:13:57pm

I strongly suspect that Nick Berg had no clue about what was going to happen. If he had, I am sure that he would have fought back like Fabrizio Quattrocchi. That would have ruined this video’s propaganda value.

381 First look at yourself  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:14:48pm

#327

"These are NOT relative values, these are absolutes, and the western world - your evident self-hatred notwithstanding - exemplifies these truths"

I agree that the values you listed above are absolutes FOR ME AND YOU, but they aren't for others. So they're -really- relative and not absolute as you say, because for something to be ABSOLUTE it must be for everybody. But it isn't so, so it is NOT REALLY
absolute. Lost ? Confused ? Here's an example : imagine you firmly believe infidels must die, because it is what you were always taught since you were born and you don't know any better. For you, this is an ABSOLUTE as much as pseudoChristian values were
absolute in Europe before we got rid of the power of religion over our states. We're still struggling at times, but the firm separation between Church and State is somehow holding in Europe as much as in U.S.

Do you see what the problem is ? What is such an ABSOLUTE for you that makes YOU call me VERMIN/IGNORANT/ETC (I don't take no offence by name calling, it's k12 stuff, but you do... I guess you selectively enforce RIGHTS to whoever you please) is NOT an Absolute for others. And it will take a very long time for many arab nations to get rid of religious extremists and terrorist and apparently for us too ! as we still have examples of extremists (some vile prisoner guards) in our ranks. We must also
give GOOD EXAMPLE !

So you say War is better then peace , if peace time conditions are that of war ! Man you're so friggin smart, I never could have tought that ! If you have the conditions you have listed (school buses blowing etc) you are at WAR ,not in peace to begin with ! Does that mean we should use the same methods the vile terrorist are using with us ? No, for Lord shake we're better !

"You may not think that we are at war with militant Islam, but frankly it doesn't matter what YOU think. They are at war with us"

And what is that supposed to mean ? Neither what YOU think is relevant. The last part is just the statement of something obvious that we are still at war, unlike some "Mission Accomplished" statement.

#331 Good Lord, obviously she's glad she survived ! But did that make the raping less bad or made her forget about it ? Ask her (only if you know that she's comfortable with such questions)

Hopefully she recovered at least partially from the shock, hopefully completely ; but again SHE didn't have a choice, she was raped ! She would have choosed NOT to be raped for sure, so she's just looking at the bright side that she survived to feel less pain for the fact she was raped. She would probably like to kill the raper, she's surely NOT thanking him for living her alive or cutting him some slack because she survived. So even if he didn't kill her, she still (probably) would like to kill him EVEN IF she suffered a lesser evil !

What do you expect the prisoners to want, to say thanks to the torturers because they were just humiliated and probably beated Should your female friend forgive because she was "just" humiliated, maybe beaten but not really killed ?

382 andreaSF  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:15:35pm

#374 Coral Russell - yeah, totally dude, lets fire up a joint and listen to Air America.. sooo cool... TOOL!

383 h.f.mudd  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:18:00pm

Are they trying to scare us? Not quite. I hope others see it as I do: not sad, not a tragedy, nor should these Islamofucks be "brought to justice". No: we should not rest, never stop until we hunt down every last one of these motherfuckers and kill them, kill them with extreme prejudice. We just need to exterminate them.

384 zipity  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:18:19pm

#373 Red meat, get your red meat here...

385 steve miller  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:18:40pm

#374 - almost you fool us, Kathryn Cramer

386 happycynic  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:18:47pm

Perhaps it is time to "raise the black flag."

387 Rootless Cosmo  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:20:49pm

God help us? God help us? God helps them that help themselves! Thanks Ben Franklin!

We are dealing with an enemy like the nazis--they are aided and abetted by the so-called peaceful muslims who don't have the nerve to stop the bullies. The Shoah couldn't have happened unless almost everyone was in on it, and they were. And yet, after the war, all the Germans lost their party membership cards and their uniforms and said they didn't know.

And since then we've heard "Never Again" over and over and over again. Except for now.

We've been taught to revere those brave jounalists and photographers that brought us the pictures of the camps and the bodies and the survivors. Except for now, when the media only wants to show us how evil the US military is, but avoids showing the severed heads of Jews, the lifeless bodies of Jewish children shot in their car and the shredded body parts of Jewish soldiers blown apart near Gaza.

And where is the Jewish vote? For the appeasers and the equivocators. Where are the editors and reporters and columnists and photographers and producers and directors? Throwing fundraisers to elect anybody but Bush.

The enemy is coming. They have declared themselves in no uncertain terms. They will slay my children in cold blood. They will exterminate me and my entire family. They will ask for no quarter.

Never again. Except for now, when we are alive, we are adult and we have the evil that stalks through history pursuing us with intent to kill.

Maybe next time...

388 Truth Dr.  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:21:10pm

And what time is the Security Council meeeting at?

389 andreaSF  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:21:57pm

#381 - What a convoluted sack of shi* that statement was. I knew it! You and Coral are getting high together!

390 zipity  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:22:08pm

Time to let loose the dogs of war... They keep bleating about opening the gates of hell... You have no idea...

391 NY Nana  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:26:27pm

Re Nick Berg zt'l Videotaped execution of U.S. Jew may not shake Jewish commitment in Iraq

The videotaped execution of an American Jewish civilian contractor in Iraq shook members of the Jewish community, but not their commitment to the war on terrorism.
A video that surfaced on the Internet on Tuesday showed the decapitation by masked Iraqis of Nicholas Berg, 26, of West Chester, Pa. The grisly scene echoed the 2002 murder in Pakistan of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl, who was forced to admit his Jewishness on tape just before his captors cut off his head.

It wasn’t clear whether Berg was targeted because of his religion. In the video, posted on a Web site linked to Al-Qaida, Berg is seen saying, “My name is Nick Berg, my father’s name is Michael, my mother’s name is Susan . . . I have a brother and sister, David and Sarah.”

Several Jewish leaders and military families said the incident shouldn’t dissuade Jewish soldiers and civilians from serving in Iraq.

“Should people think twice or should we continue this?” asked Judy Ledger, whose son and daughter — and their spouses — all served with the U.S. military in Iraq. “You do have to realize there’s a danger, but the danger is no more if you’re in the military than if there is a hate crime” in the United States.

Several sources said Berg’s murder — as well as Tuesday’s videotaped killing of six Israeli soldiers by Palestinians in the Gaza Strip — should deepen the commitment of Jews and other Americans to the war on terrorism.

“This is an evil force that has no moral compunction at all,” said Malcolm Hoenlein, executive vice chairman of the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations.

Referring to the video showing an Iraqi holding Berg’s severed head aloft and shouting, “Allahu akbar,” or “God is great” — and footage of Palestinian militants proudly displaying an Israeli soldier’s head and other body parts — Hoenlein said the two cases point to the same enemy.

“Their barbarism could not be more clear after today. On both fronts it’s the same menace,” he said...

And this article re the showing the alleged 'torture' photos:

Senator: Photos Being Used for Politics

Republican senator inflamed partisan tempers Tuesday, charging his colleagues and the media with manipulating the images of Iraqi prisoner abuse for political gain.

Sen. James Inhofe, R-Okla., said: "I'm probably not the only one up at this table that is more outraged by the outrage than we are by the treatment."

He said he believed that the individuals responsible for mistreating prisoners should be punished. He also speculated on how the prisoners must feel since Saddam Hussein has been ousted.

"I have to say when we talk about the treatment of these prisoners that I would guess that these prisoners wake up every morning thanking Allah that Saddam Hussein is not in charge of these prisons," Inhofe said.

But Inhofe also said the prisoners in Iraq are being held there for crimes.

"You know, they're not there for traffic violations," he said. "If they're in cell block 1A or 1B, these prisoners -- they're murderers, they're terrorists, they're insurgents. Many of them probably have American blood on their hands. And here we're so concerned about the treatment of those individuals."

Inhofe read aloud from an e-mail issued by the presidential campaign of Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., that coupled a demand for President Bush to fire Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld with a solicitation for campaign contributions.

"I'm also outraged by the press and the politicians and the political agendas that are being served by this, and I say political agendas because that's actually what's happening," the Republican senator said at a hearing with the Army general who investigated charges of abuse at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison.

David Wade, a Kerry campaign spokesman, accused Inhofe of "trying to turn official Senate business into a political stunt to divert attention from the serious issues being discussed."

392 zipity  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:27:11pm

Not completly off topic... Anyone remember "The Dogs of War"? Not too far from what we are discussing. Mercenaries hired to overthrow an African despot. (That narrows it down).

393 zipity  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:29:57pm

No that was not about the stripped down military having to fill holes with contractors, many of which would have volunteered for Iraq if the military had the mandate and the money...

394 Free Speech Is Only For Uber-Libs  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:30:49pm

#368
It is?
Not at CNN
[Link: www.cnn.com...]

the prison scandal is still alive. I hope the phony outrage bites the f*ing leftwing media (morally bankrupt agenda driven buffoons that they are)and the uber-libs in congress in the butt. I think it will. Americans can only take so much.

395 Asylum Aleikum  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:31:06pm

It is no small feat to cut a human head off with a knife, but to accomplish this in 40 seconds (yes, I counted) must require quite a bit of practice. Do they teach a decapitation course in madrasas?

396 Ur not gonna smell paradies as muslims will  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:32:18pm

Bush should stop playing Mr. Nice Guy and open up a huge can of whoop ass on these enemies of civilization. And the enemies I am referring to are of course the Democrats. Instead of hesitating to show 2.5 seconds of footage of firefighters on 9/11, Bush should launch an all-out media campaign of scenes of Islamofascist horror. Show the towers collapsing. Not the actual decapitation, but show the SOB pulling out the knife. Time to stop playing by the left/liberal PC rules. By-pass the 5th column mainstream media and show the images directly to the American people. Show people what we are up against.

397 AU  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:35:03pm

Is King-pin Abu Abdullah of SadistArabia going to announce the he is certain that the Jews are 100% to 95% responsible for the beheading of Berg? And then he would point out that what happened to Berg can only make muslims look bad and hence the only ones who have anything to gain would be the Jews...hence they must be behind it. This is Islamofacist logic.

398 Fly  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:36:12pm

#22 Jennifer;

Why secretly? Why can they just come out and decry this kind of action?

399 zipity  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:37:24pm

Deep inside the recesses of the Democratic Lab of Doom, John Kerry and Terry McAullife huddle: "How do we spin this John?" "Well, maybe we can say they used a Wusthof-Trident knife and blame it on the Germans"... Ahahahaahhahaaa!

400 skeemo  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:41:21pm

I can't believe how fuckin warped your mind would have to be to do that.

Its all the practice they get as kids slaughtering billy goats and chickens to celebrate Eid alAdha

Sick sick sick. But what do you expect from peoples that could kill their own mothers or sisters in the name of honour?

401 dmtw  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:43:00pm

#362 sea bass:

Don't miss the delightful Metafilter thread gloating over this cinematic gem:

By Metafilter standards, that discussion is downright moderate.

402 grayp  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:43:36pm

I can't possibly hope to keep up with all the postings on LGF today.

Charles, you keep a slideshow of Pali child abuse.

Can you set up one of Islamic atrocities, video or still?

Bandwidth issues? We can hit the tip jar.

You have stills of the towers burning, but I don't know if there is video of the bodies falling.

And you know what? I think Brit Hume reads this. 24 hours of this site, and no other, carries a story, he broadcasts it.

I think we should all petition Chris Wallace to respond to Ted Koppel's smarmy 'names of the dead' trope with one hour of video of this horror.

403 awcm  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:46:07pm

I am so sick of hearing about how the animals responsible will be brought to justice. Isn't that what we heard about the 4 contractors?

What did we get? The Marines milling about smartly in the outskirts of Fallujah while getting shot at during a unilateral cease fire while we NEGOTIATED! WTF! What twilight zone have I fallen into?

It also seems that while the Marines were milling about, Mr. Berg was being held somewhere in Fallujah.

I don't know who is running the show in Iraq, but they seem utterly clueless and inconsistent. Let's see, we will look the other way while we convince a few patsies to do the dirty work in a prison that actually looks something like a fraternity initiation. Then we will self flagellate over it. At the same time, we will refuse to rightfully bring the thugs and terrorists in Fallujah to justice.

With all due respect to the Belmont Club, the effort in Iraq since the end of major combat operations has been abysmal (the effort of the leadership that is, the troops as usual are holding up their end of the bargain.)

404 NY Nana  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:48:06pm

#208 The Punk

Dan Rather a traitor? You'd better believe it.

CBS to Air U.S. Soldier's Video Diary of Iraq Abuse

Koppel? The same. This was supposed to be on tonight, but I did not watch. It is possible that they went with the beheading...I get the daily email to be aware of the target for the night...

Nightline Daily E-Mail
May 11, 2004

TONIGHT'S FOCUS: The abuses committed by American soldiers at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison have prompted a storm of outrage. Especially disturbing are late breaking reports this afternoon that an American may have been murdered in retaliation for those abuses. Today, a tense Senate hearing considered the Army's own internal report of these abuses. And despite the enormity of the criticism, both at home and around the world, some are starting to say there has already been too much hand wringing.

The extent of the abuse at Abu Ghraib prison is still being learned. There are hundreds more photographs that the Pentagon says that it has - will those be released publicly? And if so, what more might they show beyond what has already shocked so much of the world? And how did this abuse come about? Were the prisoners in the photographs following orders from higher up? And if so, how high?

These are some of the questions that the Army tried to answer for itself when it turned to U.S. Army Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba to investigate. His 53-page classified report chronicled the abuses at the prison for the Pentagon earlier this year. Today Taguba testified before the Senate Armed Services committee, saying that the mistreatment at the prison resulted from poor leadership, a "lack of discipline, no training whatsoever and no supervision." He stopped there, saying he found no evidence that American soldiers had acted on the direct orders of higher-ups.

At this hour, as I write this, the story may have taken another gruesome turn. There is an unconfirmed report that an American civilian has been savagely murdered in Iraq as revenge for the prison abuses. This story is still unfolding.

But to some, the reaction to Abu Ghraib has already been too much. Senator James Inhofe, Republican of Oklahoma, said as much today at the hearing. "I'm probably not the only one up at this table that is more outraged by the outrage than we are by the treatment...These prisoners, you know they're not there for traffic violations," Inhofe said. "If they're in cellblock 1-A or 1-B, these prisoners, they're murderers, they're terrorists, they're insurgents. Many of them probably have American blood on their hands and here we're so concerned about the treatment of those individuals."

Nightline's John Donvan will report on today's Senate hearing, the breaking reports of the murdered American civilian, and the range of reactions to what is still being learned about Abu Ghraib.

Ted Koppel will speak with Senator John McCain, a Republican member of the Armed Services committee and himself a former POW in Viet Nam.

The news is moving quickly out of Iraq. These plans could change a bit for tonight - so please tune in for the latest news.

405 Eagle  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:48:49pm

#369 RWC

Thank you.

Since it means something to you, keep it. Please just
write the author as --> MJS "Eagle"

I showed it once to a leftist friend. He read it and stared at me blankly...

406 Ur not gonna smell paradies as muslims will  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:50:12pm

Oh, and don't give me any more of that 'holy city of such-and-such' crap. As far as I'm concerned, New York is a holy city. They should go in and grab that prick al-Sadr, convict him by military tribunal, and hang him until dead. Take photos of the hanging and let the Arab world get a good look at them.

407 PostalWorker  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:50:40pm

#112 s

ESAD, you faint hearted twit. If you want to see real racism AND ultimate stupidity, go th DU aka the howler monkey area of the blogosphere zoo. Watch the holwers throw shit on the walls and scream their inane insanities.

Then kindly fuck off.

Thank you.

408 AU  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:51:39pm

Just about now, to celebrate the Berg killing, abu-palestinian is holding a party where the celebration consists of firing guns in the air (of which the falling bullets will kill one or two palis), passing out candy, building a suicide bomb belt, and playing roulette to see which lucky 12 year old kid will get to wear it out for the evening.

#374 Coral Russel is invited...because a party is a party.

409 Macsen Wledig  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:52:31pm

I come here for the comfort of knowing that I am not alone... But still there are so few of us, and I cannot feel the momentum of ruthless justice moving to tear this plague from out midst. Our nation will not rise to avenge this one more slaughtered innocent, nor will the few free peoples elsewhere. I fear we are condemned to silent, tearful rage until the next great horror confronts us. G-d give us the strength to face it.

410 George  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:52:52pm

Do you remember the scene in Lawrence of Arabia when Lawrence ambushes a Turkish army unit? He wavers for a moment before giving his order, then raises his sword and yells "NO PRISONERS". That is how this makes me feel!

411 Frisco Patriot  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:55:24pm

Islam simply must be destroyed, by any means necessary. We are dealing with pure evil.

412 PostalWorker  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:57:42pm

#374 Coral Russell

"it's too bad you guys just don't get it. the bloodlust won't end because we are the pre-emptive, first strike invaders - the occupiers. they didn't invite us. do you like the war you asked for yet. listen to air america radio and get some religion because war is peace, freedom is slavery, and ignorance is strength. "

Hmmm. Hitler didn't invite us to Germany, Hirohito didn't invite us to Japan, Mussolini didn't invite us to Italy. The blood lust has been there since the 7th Century. They call it Islam.

I think you must have taken acid before reading 1984.

Take my advice, commit yourself for an eval before you hurt yourself.

413 awcm  Tue, May 11, 2004 6:59:57pm

#411

Agreed. Islam is simply not compatible with civilized, 21st century society. In fact, it wasn't compatible with much less civilized 15th thru 20th century society, which is why it was beaten back. It has to go.

414 Ted Engel  Tue, May 11, 2004 7:01:07pm
I agree that the values you listed above are absolutes FOR ME AND YOU, but they aren't for others. So they're -really- relative and not absolute as you say, because for something to be ABSOLUTE it must be for everybody. But it isn't so, so it is NOT REALLY absolute.

You are committing the genetic fallacy, confusing the validity of an idea with its origins.

Even if it were true that our moral beliefs are the result of cultural conditioning, such an observation does nothing to show that our beliefs are false. The truth of an idea does not depend on how the idea originated. If moral values are discovered rather than invented, then our gradual and fallible apprehension of the moral realm no more undermines the objective reality of that realm than our gradual, fallible apprehension of the physical realm undermines the objective reality of the physical realm.

We know objective moral values exist because we clearly apprehend some of them. The best way to show this is simply to describe moral situations where we clearly see right and wrong. If someone fails to see the objective moral truth of such matters, he or she is simply morally handicapped, like a color-blind person who cannot see the difference between red and green, and there's no reason to think their impairment should make us call into question what we see clearly.

Simply put, cultures can err just as individuals can. The fact that the Aztecs thought human sacrifice was right and the Jews thought it was wrong does not mean that it was right to murder innocent children. What is culturally relative are opinions about right and wrong, not right and wrong themselves.

415 Gary Bruce  Tue, May 11, 2004 7:03:58pm

Bush just imposed mostly symbolic sanctions on Syria. God, what a pussy this guy is.

President Imposes Sanctions On Syria
Nation Accused of Backing Terrorism
By Glenn Kessler
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, May 12, 2004; Page A01

Under pressure from Congress, President Bush slapped sanctions on Syria yesterday for supporting terrorism and interfering with U.S. efforts to stabilize Iraq.

The White House said the sanctions include banning U.S. exports to Syria except for food and medicine, prohibiting Syrian aircraft from flying to and from the United States, freezing certain Syrian assets and cutting off relations with a Syrian bank because of money laundering concerns.

Since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, the Bush administration has wavered about how tough its policy should be toward Syria. Some administration officials have been deeply suspicious of Damascus, believing its support of terrorism and development of weapons of mass destruction make it a potential candidate for the "axis of evil" that Bush had said consisted of North Korea, Iran and the former government of Iraq. But others have argued that Syria has been helpful in the war on terrorism, specifically in providing intelligence that helped thwart at least one potential attack.

Indeed, the Bush administration had been unenthusiastic about the Syrian Accountability Act, which was approved five months ago by huge margins in the House and the Senate, and had repeatedly delayed implementing it for fear of adding to tensions in the Middle East. But, facing a deadline next month for choosing from a menu of sanctions, the president finally acted.

"Despite many months of diplomatic efforts to convince the Government of Syria to change its behavior, Syria has not taken significant, concrete steps to address the full range of U.S. concerns," Bush said in a message to Congress. He declared a "national emergency" to address the "unusual and extraordinary threat" posed by Syria.

The United States rarely imposes economic sanctions on other countries because they rile the business community, which yesterday expressed dismay at the administration's actions. The Bush administration last levied sanctions almost a year ago, on Burma.

The practical effect of the new sanctions is mostly symbolic. Diplomatic relations will not be cut, no Syrian flights fly to the United States, and Bush said in his message to Congress that he will waive the sanctions for products such as telecommunications equipment and aircraft parts, in addition to the exemptions for food and medicine.

Thomas Crocker, a partner at Alston & Bird and a sanctions specialist, said the permitted products constitute a large portion of the $200 million in exports from the United States to Syria. Bush justified the continued sale of telecommunications equipment -- such as cellular phones -- as an effort "to promote the free flow of information."

Italy, Germany and France are Syria's biggest trading partners, Crocker said.

Syrian exports to the United States totaled nearly $260 million last year, much of it fuel oil and other petroleum products. While exports from Syria are not barred, U.S. companies may find it difficult to continue working there under the sanctions.

In Damascus, Syrian Prime Minister Mohammed Naji Otari told reporters that the sanctions are "unjust and unjustified," but he said "these sanctions will not have any effect on Syria." He called on Washington to "reverse its decision and not provoke problems between the two countries."

Rep. Eliot L. Engel (D-N.Y.), one of the sponsors of the sanctions law, said the president's action "was a long time coming, but it is better late than never." But, he said, "to me, it's only the beginning," adding that Syria will face even tougher sanctions if its behavior does not change.

In a statement, Bush echoed that sentiment. "The Syrian government must understand that its conduct alone will determine the duration of the sanctions, and the extent to which additional sanctions may be imposed should the Syrian government fail to adopt a more constructive approach to relations with its neighbors, weapons of mass destruction, and terrorism," he said.

Bush, who signed an executive order imposing the sanctions, accused Syria of "supporting terrorism, continuing its occupation of Lebanon, pursuing weapons of mass destruction and missile programs, and undermining United States and international efforts with respect to the stabilization and reconstruction of Iraq."

416 Donna V.  Tue, May 11, 2004 7:07:33pm

#396:

Time to stop playing by the left/liberal PC rules. By-pass the 5th column mainstream media and show the images directly to the American people. Show people what we are up against.

True, true. Except that I think a big chunk of the Bush administration buys into PC themselves, including Bush. When he said "Islam is a RoP" I thought he was simply engaging in the public B.S. that politicians have to indulge in, and had to know better. But it looks like he actually did believe that and perhaps still does. Look at all the pussyfooting we're doing in this damn war.

I'll still vote for Bush in November, but c'mon guys. Shit, the admin. didn't even finish the job in Fallujah. And we're going to level the Arab world? Uh huh.

417 HeathC  Tue, May 11, 2004 7:07:55pm

I have no need to see this violence. I am sick and tired of hearing about the apologists for this religion of violence, and this culture of violence. Islam is no different from Nazism, or the cult of death in Japan (Kamikaze) - we wiped them out, and we'll wipe out these psychopaths.

From an evolutionary standpoint, nature doesn't preserve organisms or belief systems that are nihilistic.

What REALLY makes me mad is how the press sensationalises the nominal harm caused by us, while ignoring our spilled blood and treasure. Fortunately, the left is being exposed a little more, each and every day. From my standpoing, I'm compiling my list of media sources that are biased, and I'm going to do everything in my purchasing power to ensure that they wither.

418 Cornholio  Tue, May 11, 2004 7:08:18pm

The terrorists are ghouls.

With all due repect for the deceased's family, I wish the savage end of this tape was shown on every news network.

Maybe then the average American would quit wailing "why do they hate us" and instead support fighting for freedom.

And I'm sick of the news headlines like the one at the NYT stating this barbaric decapitation was

revenge for the American mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison.

Bullshit. The terrorists would have done this anyway.

We've pussyfooted around for too long. Why, for instance, is Al-Sadr still alive? It's time to whack Al-Sadr. We need to take the Tony Soprano approach against these thugs.

419 JC  Tue, May 11, 2004 7:08:55pm

McCain on Larry King now, saying that Berg's killers will be found, "brought to justice" and...wait for it...face a trial.

To his credit, McCain didn't fall for the lie that this is retribution for Abu Ghraib.

Larry led with the story of Berg's murder, gave it maybe a minute, then proceeded right into the Abu Ghraib business. He asked McCain, "Do you think Americans are getting to the point where they're tired of this, and just want to say, forget about it?"

Unbelievable.

420 Globular Cluster  Tue, May 11, 2004 7:10:23pm

Finally watched it.

It basically confirms what I already knew: that we are dealing with sick fuckers who need to be taken out, that Islam is not a religion of peace, that we need to use overwhelming force, and that we have to stop apologizing for mishaps.

The White House is faltering in this war. It worries too much about hearts and minds. It needs to give Fallujah and Najaf 24 hours to evacuate non-combatants and then use heavy ordnance to level the towns.

421 Globular Cluster  Tue, May 11, 2004 7:11:54pm
McCain on Larry King now, saying that Berg's killers will be found, "brought to justice" and...wait for it...face a trial.

It is not enough to go after the individual perps. It is only meaningful to utterly destroy the soil from which these types of atrocities spring.

422 awcm  Tue, May 11, 2004 7:14:13pm

#415 Agreed. I cannot understand the inconsistencies of the Bush administration. Seems like somedays the Pentagon runs the show, other days State, other days Grover and his Islamofascist friends, ...

423 Kix  Tue, May 11, 2004 7:14:56pm

The killers won't be found. That is a bunch of BS. We need to completely level Fallujah or wherever this took place and say that is in retalliation for not surrendering. If the insurgents had surrendered like we asked, then the town would still be standing. One Middle Eastern city should be taken out each day until the Islamofacists give up.

If they don't, no loss to the world is there are none left.

424 awcm  Tue, May 11, 2004 7:17:25pm

"...brought to justice..." = "...blah blah blah blah blah blah blah..."

Unfortunately, too many of us do not understand justice and how different our concept of justice is compare to our enemy's.

425 Bongo Fury  Tue, May 11, 2004 7:19:16pm

This does make me wonder about the long-term prospects for Iraq. What chance is there of achieving any kind of democracy and stability in a part of the world where there is, effectively, an infinite supply of religious lunatics who enjoy cutting peoples heads off and blowing themselves up for allah? There must be literally millions of these retards throughout the middle east, and millions more yet to be born. Not to mention the millions who are going west...

426 Donna V.  Tue, May 11, 2004 7:21:42pm

Ted Engel: Excellent post. I once listened to a classmate (who happened to be black) spew the same sort of moral relativity as our Italian visitor. I then said that if one culture's values are no more valid than another, than we really have no right to condemn slavery. After all, it was a integral part of antebellum Southern culture, wasn't it? And slaveholders really, truly believed that blacks were inferior and needed masters to look after them. She was taken aback for a moment. Then she told me that was a "racist" argument.

427 PostalWorker  Tue, May 11, 2004 7:22:43pm

#241 Globular Custard

"McCain on Larry King now, saying that Berg's killers will be found, "brought to justice" and...wait for it...face a trial.

It is not enough to go after the individual perps. It is only meaningful to utterly destroy the soil from which these types of atrocities spring. "

This brings to mind the scene from Green Berets where David Jantsen is giving John Wayne a ration of shit about due process of law in a war zone over the interrogation of a VC by ARVN. The Duke comes back:

"Out here due process is a bullet ..."

I say preach it brother.

428 Rick T  Tue, May 11, 2004 7:23:13pm

It is past time to tell the Muslims in America: You have a choice. Either denounce this kind of barbaric behavior and expose the sleeper agents among you, or Pack Your Bags. You have 30 days until you declare your support for Civilization, or you go live with the barabarians you support.

Media Delenda Est!
Mecca Delenda Est!

429 awcm  Tue, May 11, 2004 7:23:58pm

Unfortunately, I am beginning to believe that there is currently no one with political power in the US who has the stomach to fight the WOT the way it needs to be fought in order to be successful.

A very sad realization.

430 PostalWorker  Tue, May 11, 2004 7:28:34pm

#428 RickT

You left out the stipulation that they relinquish all attempts to force their ways on the US, and swear or affirm first and foremost loyalty to the Constitution of the USA.

Hint: None of those bastards will do it.

431 Crusade Now  Tue, May 11, 2004 7:28:48pm

yep and down the road in Finsbury Park england allows these nutters the right to live in the UK ...UNFUCKINGBELIEVABLE...I tried to find the taliban asylum seeker in Bethnal Green as I didn´´t think he had the right to live in the UK if I didn´t know what I mean...I remember seeing some villagers who had their faces skinned off by the taliban...Who remembers the kid being brought up from the well in Algeria with his head just hanging on to his neck, his throat slit...yet these culprits sit in Blackhorse Rd near Arsenal...

432 NY Nana  Tue, May 11, 2004 7:33:23pm

#416 Donna

This, from the WSJ Opinion Journal, should finally expose to the dhummicrats that it has become al-democrat.

More than 300 Muslims gather for Seattle banquet

American Muslims mingling in a ballroom at the Washington State Convention and Trade Center in downtown Seattle last night showed no outward sign of the pressure many are feeling.
At the annual banquet for the Seattle chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), the issues of war abroad and civil rights at home surfaced at the podium, and participants were ready with opinions when asked.

Yet this formal gathering of more than 300 people breathed the warmth and intimacy of a close-knit community.

Children dressed in their best filled the room with a family feeling.

Men from Africa, the Middle East and Malaysia greeted each other with broad smiles, tight bear hugs and soft kisses to the cheek.

Young women mostly wore headscarves, and a few had their faces veiled.

One overt political note was sounded as U.S. Rep. Jim McDermott, D-Seattle, was introduced and given CAIR's public-official-of-the-year award for his support of the Muslim community.

Before giving McDermott his plaque, Samia El-Moslimany, CAIR vice chair, announced "tremendous news."

She told the crowd that the King County Democratic Party, meeting earlier in the day elsewhere within the Convention Center, had voted into its platform a commitment to "withhold U.S. tax dollars from Israel while it is in violation of international law."

"This is a memorable day," said El-Moslimany.

The anti-Israel statement was one of 235 amendments to the party's platform, according to Greg Rodriguez, King County party chairman. Reached at home last night, Rodriguez could not recall the exact wording, but said, "I would imagine that probably did get in."

Following El-Moslimany to the podium, McDermott said that passage of the platform commitment should encourage all American Muslims to get involved in the political process.

Afterward, Naseem Tuffaha, local director of the Seattle chapter of the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee who introduced the anti-Israel proposal at the Democratic party meeting, said that, though the platform is not binding, "it's a source of influence."

Yet political influence seemed remote to many at the banquet.

On the way in, many paused in the lobby to watch video footage of Capt. James Yee, the U.S. Army Muslim chaplain who spent 76 days in prison on allegations of spying at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, before all charges against him were dropped in April.

Yee, who had not spoken publicly since his release, gave a short speech at the dinner. Having joined three other men for Muslim prayers in a quiet corner just before he addressed the crowd, Yee made a point of stating at the outset that he was not speaking in any official capacity or as a member of the military.

His lawyer has said that Yee received orders since his return to duty at Fort Lewis restricting what he may say publicly.

Yee declined to speak with the press, and confined his remarks from the stage to thanking all who had supported him, and thanking CAIR in particular for its organized efforts.

"I encourage you to stand for justice and to support (CAIR)," he concluded, "My name is Yusuf Yee, your brother in Islam."

Earlier, some participants spoke of the fears aroused by cases such as Yee's.

"Every once in a while, someone gets picked on," said Jeremy Mseitif, a Lebanese-born American. "It seems you are guilty until proven innocent."

Brian Shaheed, a California-born convert to Islam who had traveled with his wife from Longview for the banquet, told of how his wife had obscenities yelled at her; how they had been refused service in several businesses and told to go back to their own country (both are white Americans who wear Islamic-style attire).

"We get nervous," Shaheed said.

Atefeh Naeemi, a young Iranian-born American, compared the pressures currently facing her community to those faced by African Americans in Jim Crow days and Japanese Americans during World War II.

"Maybe this is the Muslim-American time to be tested," Naeemi said.

Any delusional LLL Jews had better wake up. The dhummicrats support the very RoP that massacred 6 IDF soldiers, and are holding their parts, and an American Jew was beheaded by them..for a total of 2 publicized beheadings of Jews. There is a possibility that one of the IDF martyrs was also decapitated.

Charles, there will be a tip in the tip jar for all the bandwidth. This has been quite a day..may we all never see one like it again..but I am afraid that this is a wish that will not come true...and fear what they will do next, for the are the epitomy of evil, and there is just no place too low for them to mire in filth.

How can there be anyone that can find any possible excuse for them???

433 Cam  Tue, May 11, 2004 7:35:44pm

NY Nana:

Right on! I'm sure Charles don't mind the bandwidth to see a sentiment like that.

434 Gary Bruce  Tue, May 11, 2004 7:37:13pm

Sadly, Andrew Sullivan just took another giant leap backwards:

"For our part, we must not take the deeper bait, which is to polarize this still further and associate these fanatics with Arabs or Islam as a whole. This is not a war against Islam. It is a war to defend Islam."

I wish it were his meds, but I fear that it isn't.

AWCM: Unfortunately, I am beginning to believe that there is currently no one with political power in the US who has the stomach to fight the WOT the way it needs to be fought in order to be successful.

Yup. That's what has been driving me crazy the last couple of months. I'm desperate for an altnerative to hoping that W discovers his manhood, or that the demoncrats nominate someone other than Kerry. A military takeover of the government for the duration of the war? That's what it's coming to--or the wait for another massive attack on the US, in the hopes that the country will FINALLY demand we go to war.

435 Sarah D.  Tue, May 11, 2004 7:38:47pm

#428 Rick T

I totally agree.

436 awcm  Tue, May 11, 2004 7:42:45pm

#434

A year ago I could never believe the following thought could enter my mind: you know, Howard Dean would not be so bad. He doesn't seem to take shit from anybody, and he's just spontaneous "enough" to make the looney liberals in Europe as well as the Islamofascists afraid of him.

437 Globular Cluster  Tue, May 11, 2004 7:43:35pm

I talked to my mother today. She basically was on the verge of tears from todays events. Not that she doesn't read the news on a daily basis, but because it just gets exasperating and depressing dealing with these types of people all the time, not seeing them stopped, not seeing them punished, watching America falter with apologies and "hearts and minds".

Israeli soldiers are on full assault in Gaza now looking for the remains of there brothers. From some news sources the soldiers are in tears while performing the assignment.

Personally, I would not send soldiers on this type of mission. I would threaten very heavy ordnance in 10 hours if the remians are not deposited at an indicated location.

Then the slaying of Berg.

Shit happens all the time and I've never heard her voice break over shit like this.

It pisses me off, in the end, more than the atrocities themselves. I wish we could fight this war properly without hesitation and without remorse, that we don't badger marines about this protocol or this convention.

438 PostalWorker  Tue, May 11, 2004 7:44:21pm

#434 Gary Bruce

"That's what it's coming to--or the wait for another massive attack on the US, in the hopes that the country will FINALLY demand we go to war. "

As I said on another thread yesterday, the sleeping giant hasn't awakened yet, only stirred in his sleep.

Although I have reservations about the ecological damage of nukes, I am almost in favor of turning Mecca AND Medina into slagheaps. Or at the very least MOAB that goddamn black rock those asswipes fawn over.

Then blow down the Dome of the Rock. I won't feel sorry.

It's us or them.

439 Frank_Mtl  Tue, May 11, 2004 7:45:33pm

Utterly repulsive video. Actually had to stop it and leave it at that where I could not take it anymore. It kind of looks like islam is self-destructing.

440 Globular Cluster  Tue, May 11, 2004 7:46:10pm

434 Gary Bruce

Sullivan has endorsed Kerry.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

But take it to another thread please -- maybe the Cox and Forkum one.

441 zulubaby  Tue, May 11, 2004 7:48:04pm
From some news sources the soldiers are in tears while performing the assignment.

My heart just broke a little more.

442 Pennies for Patriots  Tue, May 11, 2004 7:48:14pm

Perhaps we should nuance this for a while before we take actions that we might regret.

Maybe not.

What a cowardly bunch of shit sacks these illiterate f*cks are. When are we going to stop fretting about the permutations of a million public relations minutae and settle these barbarian's hash once and for all? Rain fire on their heads until we have a complete and unconditional surrender. Repeat above step for good measure. When the moral and sane people deliver up these turds they can expect us to stop. Until then God can sort them out. Damn them!

443 Ed from Ohio  Tue, May 11, 2004 7:55:56pm

It is times like this that I honestly don't give a shit about the moral high ground. Torture the bastards. I don't care. Bring these people to their knees with the full force of the u.s. military.

444 awcm  Tue, May 11, 2004 7:57:30pm

#437

If we did not win "hearts and minds" after helping to run the Soviets out of Afghanistan, saving Kuwait's & the Saudi's asses in '91, bringing food to the Somalis, saving unknown numbers of Muslims in the Balkans, and bringing the Israelis & Palis to the table with the best deal the Palis will ever see, WE WILL NEVER WIN HEARTS & MINDS. PERIOD!

445 NY Nana  Tue, May 11, 2004 7:57:53pm

#433 Cam

It hurts so much. The Democrats used to be the party of labor unions, and the working man...and also most Jews were Dems in the States. My parents OBM were one of the few Republicans in MA...I wish they had lived to see that I finally grew up in my 60's!

Now? They are the party of zillionaires, like Soros, etc., and the presumed candidate is a traitor, married to a harridan who gives her money to support the same terrorists that are killing Americans and Israelis... they could care less for the people, and their embracing of CAIR is despicable. WA and OR are very LLL states, but now are like a seperate country.

After viewing the video, and then showing it to my husband, who was sickened by it, and looking at the pictures of 5 of the 6 IDF martyrs on the Jerusalem Post...what is there to say?

Reading that article made me so angry that I had to wait to post it..I was livid.

Charles deserves the tip. No one else has a blog like this. :)

Speaking of problems, I have a feeling that the Khadr family terrorists are still sitting safe and sound, collecting benefits? Has the indignation worn off already?

When will our countries in the west learn? Sadly, 9/11 now seems to be fading from memory...what the wake up call will be terrifies me. It is getting louder and nearer.

446 awcm  Tue, May 11, 2004 7:59:41pm

#437

Oh, and I forgot - the above being said, it's time for getting on with getting on.

447 NuclearTinkerbell  Tue, May 11, 2004 8:02:05pm

Been lurking everywhere tonight. Just too stunned and sick to pop in 'till now.
#291 Possum: One termite is not a big deal, heck, a small colony of termites is not that bad. But then one day, your house falls down around you because the termites were in the wood where we couldn't see them and the house is lost. Eaten from the inside by a horde of hungry parasites at a banquet.

I propose that we take a stylus and templates and chalkstone out to public spaces and share our thoughts after viewing their executing. Chalking messages will not deface public property and is environmentally safe, usually washes away after a light rain.

Islam=Death Cult
Islam in NOT the ROP
The US owes me a shock and awwe moment. (one that would make Reagan proud.)
JudeoChristian/Secular reasonists must unite.

Maybe this will start to move the collective American anger onto the street where it can grow.

448 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Tue, May 11, 2004 8:02:59pm

I'm really pissed.

Now we are going to hunt down the killers of Berg and bring them to justice.

[Excuse me guys, but isn't the list getting sort of, well long?]

We will hunt down those who perpetrated this act on America, and they will be brought to justice.

[We'll forget Zarqawi and Bin Laden, and a few others]

Bringing democracy to Iraq? From my point of view, it seems to be an empty promise.

What the hell are we waiting for? Palestinians are killing Israelis practically daily, and all we can say is that unless the PA complies with our unilateral concept of peace in the ME, that somehow they are in trouble?

I'm just terribly sick of our obvious diplomatic suppression of the Israeli response.

I'm really tired of boastful claims that we will bring to justice those who have perpetrated horrific acts against us in the ME, without meaning anything by what we say.

It's time to take off the gloves and show the [bigoted word]s that we mean what we say. As of right now I rate that possibility at under 20%. After all, we are so concerned about outraging Iraqi sensibilities in Fallujah that we cannot bring ourself to focus on exterminating the vermin we have contained in that city.

What does that say about our "committment to democracy" in Iraq? It says we are full of shit. We aren't even willing to take on Al-Sadr when he openly advocates the killing of Americans, so how can we possibly expect our government to actually grow a spine?

I'm sick of all the BS. Our government is lying to us, because they are all Internationalists. They'd rather we die than to lose face with the UN and EU. I feel so dirty right now, because my government is dishonoring my beliefs.

I'll never to my last dying breath vote for Kerry, but I swear to God, if we don't get tough about this I have zero respect for our administration.

Either shit, or get off the pot.

449 awcm  Tue, May 11, 2004 8:08:38pm

#448

Agreed. What a time for a third party run. Perot was a little to early and a little too nutty about the Republicans disrupting his daughter's wedding. But now would be great timing for a great man with great character and lots of $$$.

450 Dom  Tue, May 11, 2004 8:11:51pm

I'm in turmoil after watching this and the video posted by jhs (#38). I think of the esteem in which Maimonedes held Islam, and my own faith is on the line. A voice says fight jihad for real, and it's partly about tackling Muslim leaders intellectually head on. But I wasn't tied up in a sack, buried knee deep and being stoned to death by a religious mob, or having to hear how great God is before having my head severed in that way. My instinct yells there has to be constructive progress, still what I just watched was beneath animal, I can almost forgive the soldiers of Abu Ghraib. Even as we differ and I resist extrapolating, I apologise to Bigel and Camel Prophet for any lack of understanding I ever showed. Perhaps it's a fleeting sentiment but I'm in turmoil.

451 Rayra[deleted]  Tue, May 11, 2004 8:13:46pm
452 Mehitabel (formerly ylreveb)  Tue, May 11, 2004 8:15:06pm

"Demonic" is right.

I don't need to see this, because I already saw their snuff film about poor Danny Pearl. Nothing will make me forget that, or ever forgive these fiends.

BUT: what are WE going to do about it? here in the United States?

Protest Warrior needs support, and bodies (live ones!).

The 5th-columnists in the press/media need to be confronted/contacted/shamed. Relentlessly.

We need to stand our ground in arguments with LLL friends and relations. (Although the hard-core LLLs are as impervious to reason as schizophrenics.)

And we, as a nation, need to quit acting like battered wives who make excuses for their vicious/psycho batterers.

And to remember--the media are essentially CRAVEN, market-driven toadies. They can be hectored and hassled into behaving differently.

Boycotts, lawsuits, word-missiles fired off to the editors, and anything else you can think of.

453 PostalWorker  Tue, May 11, 2004 8:16:52pm

#451 Rayra

"I don't think they hit the mark this time. Bush is in trouble with Abu Ghraib and the media is just reporting it. "

I know the feeling. I couldn't trust myself in a room full of Islamic Clerics with a SAW right now.

454 lazytart  Tue, May 11, 2004 8:17:40pm

NYNana,

Oh my God. They were so beautiful.

455 Globular Cluster  Tue, May 11, 2004 8:18:11pm

#452 Mehitabel (formerly ylreveb)

It's spelled "Bethlehem" not "Bethlihem" ;)

456 PostalWorker  Tue, May 11, 2004 8:20:06pm

Sorry Rayra.

"I've watched the uncensored video.
Too angry to say anything further about it. "

Still with a SAW in my hands right now the clerics would get it.

Preview is my friend..

Oh the humanity ...

457 NY Nana  Tue, May 11, 2004 8:22:39pm

From an arab newspaper, who else is to blame but Israel, in cahoots with the USA? Israeli link possible in US torture techniques

The head of the American defense contracting firm implicated in the torture of Iraqis at Abu Ghraib prison has close ties to Israel and visited an Israeli "anti-terror" training camp in the occupied West Bank earlier this year.

Jack London, chairman, president and CEO of CACI International Incorporated, traveled to Israel in January this year as part of a high-level delegation of US Congressmen, defense contractors and pro-Israel lobbyists, sponsored and paid for in part by the Jerusalem Fund of Aish HaTorah, a pro-Israel lobbying and fundraising group, and Greenberg Traurig, LLP, a prominent Washington law and lobby firm.

The purpose of the visit, according to a CACI press release, was "to promote opportunities for strategic partnerships and joint ventures between US and Israeli defense and homeland security companies."

As one of the highlights of the visit, London was presented with the Albert Einstein Technology Award by Israeli Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz at a gala dinner at Jerusalem city hall, for "achievements in the field of defense and national security."

Delegates also spent several hours in the occupied Syrian Golan Heights with Housing and Construction Minister Effie Eitam, a former Israeli general, who is notorious for his view that Israel should "transfer" - that is, expel - all the Palestinians.

According to the official itinerary for the Jan. 11-17 Defense Aerospace Homeland Security Mission, obtained from the Jerusalem Fund of Aish HaTorah, London's trip included a visit to Beit Horon, "the central training camp for the anti-terrorist forces of the Israeli police and the border police," in the occupied West Bank. The visitors were also "briefed by top experts," and were able to "witness exercises related to anti-terror warfare."

Two CACI employees, Steven Stephanowicz and John Israel, were named in the leaked report by US Major General Antonio M. Taguba on the abuses at Abu Ghraib prison. Taguba wrote that Stephanowicz, a "contract US civilian interrogator," "allowed and/or instructed MPs (military police), who were not trained in interrogation techniques, to facilitate interrogations by 'setting conditions' which were neither authorized or in accordance with applicable regulations/policy. He clearly knew his instructions equated to physical abuse."

John Israel, an interpreter, did not have the appropriate security clearance, according to Taguba.

Although Taguba recommended that Stephanowicz be terminated and his security clearance revoked, a May 5 statement from CACI confirmed, "at present, all CACI employees continue to work on site providing the contracted for services to our clients in that location." It added: "We have not received any information to stop any of our work, to terminate or suspend any of our employees."

Although no evidence has emerged directly linking CACI's involvement in the Abu Ghraib atrocities to Israel, it has long been known that the US military has been interested in "learning" from Israel's experience attempting to suppress the Palestinian uprising. In March 2003, for example, the AP reported that the "the (US) military has been listening closely to Israeli experts and picking up tips from years of Israeli Army operations in Palestinian areas and Lebanese towns."

This cooperation has included briefings of US personnel by Israeli officers, and, according to AP, "In January and February (2003), Israeli and American troops trained together in southern Israel's Negev Desert ... Israel has also hosted senior law enforcement officials from the United States for a seminar on counterterrorism."

Meanwhile, more evidence has emerged undermining the US thesis that the abuses at Abu Ghraib was the work of a "few bad apples." The Guardian reported that the "sexual humiliation of Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison was not an invention of maverick guards, but part of a system of ill-treatment and degradation used by special forces soldiers that is now being disseminated among ordinary troops and contractors."

This system, known to insiders as "R2I," short for resistance to interrogation, also includes such methods as "hooding, sleep deprivation, time disorientation and depriving prisoners not only of dignity, but of fundamental human needs, such as warmth, water and food." These are all techniques long employed by Israel.

The visit of the US delegation that included the CACI head exposes a rarefied web of influence sharing in which US government officials and congressmen, defense contractors and lobbyists parcel out huge contracts, and siphon significant portions off to Israel.

As Batya Feldman of Israel's Globes financial news service put it, the visit provided Israeli companies with "an excellent opportunity to encounter big bucks in homeland security."

To help Israeli companies pry some of these "big bucks" loose, the visit included seminars for Israeli companies given by US pro-Israel lobbyists called "How to Approach the Homeland Security Department," and "How to Sell to the US Defense Department."

Israeli participants would have had a chance to test the helpful tips, since present on the trip were Assistant Secretary for Homeland SecurityRobert Liscouski and many leading US legislators, including top members of the US House and Senate Armed Services Committees, which jointly oversee tens of billions of dollars in military spending.

F*ck the damned bastards...let them all die. It has come to a choice; them or us? I vote for us...this is from Lebanon..I would just love to see a paper from arafart and bin liner.

Maybe it is just the rage I feel, and I was mis-reading the article?

458 Mehitabel (formerly ylreveb)  Tue, May 11, 2004 8:24:03pm

I asked my neighbor Dick downstairs if he'd seen the news about the decapitation. And he asked me, "you mean Bush has beheaded someone?" and the shit-for-brains guy wasn't joking!!

I looked him in the eye, and his eyes slid away for a moment. I asked, "Where have you heard that we are decapitating people? No, the Islamic nutjobs have just beheaded a young man from Philadelphia."

His little girl (7 years old) asked what had happened, and Dick said, "there's a war on, that's why this happened."

All our fault, dontcha know.

459 Globular Cluster  Tue, May 11, 2004 8:26:26pm

#457 NY Nana

Nah Israel just uses sleep deprivation.

Of course the Zionists are behind this. Zzzz.

460 Mark  Tue, May 11, 2004 8:27:00pm

What I've learned from the past three years' events:

(1) You can't bring democracy to a country where there is a significant force of locals who don't want it. (As in Vietnam, for example.) They can hide among the locals and commit atrocities and wear down our resolve forever. We can't catch them all.

(2) People of different cultures should stay in their own countries. Rather than making our nation into a safety valve where the most motivated people from oppressed lands can escape, they should be bottled up at home fomenting revolution and fixing their own problems. In other words: muslims, get out of my country. And take the Mexicans with you. If you really value diversity then you have to value strong borders because without separation diversity disappears.

(3) Arabs are a deeply screwed up people whose progress towards civilization is beyond anything we in the West can help. God help the peaceful arabs; it's your job to deal with the fanatics among you.

(4) I no longer condemn the Russians for anything they did in Chechnya, or the Serbs for anything they did in Kosovo. It's murder or be murdered with these animals. If we don't stop muslim immigration now and expel muslim non-citizens, then we too will have our own Chechnyas and Kosovos right here. See, for example, that town in Michigan where they're going to start broadcasting that muslim prayer call.

(5) We have to withdraw from the Middle East because we can't fix it, we can't catch all of the bad guys, and we can't resort to the kind of tactics it would take to subjugate them without losing our moral bearings. We need to isolate the Middle East, let none of them into our countries, expel any non-citizen arabs in our countries, and let them simmer in their impotence and violence, penned up in the Middle East as a sort of gigantic prison. Just like many Iranians now like the USA after 25 years of being isolated and living under an islamic regime, a few decades of isolation without the safety valve of emigration to the West will do wonders. And if it doesn't fix them, then let them rot in their 7th century muslim backwater. Who needs em?

461 Globular Cluster  Tue, May 11, 2004 8:31:54pm
His little girl (7 years old) asked what had happened, and Dick said, "there's a war on, that's why this happened."

Beverly, or Bethlehem spelled wrong without an h,

Try going to a bar and drumming up a political conversation.

If you don't get a black eye or get kicked out of the bar it's a great way to test the waters. I got in a discussion with a bartender the other night about Abu Ghraib.

His first comment was "the arabs are at war with us because we support Israel."

Sigh.

462 NY Nana  Tue, May 11, 2004 8:34:20pm

#459 Globular Cluster

Nah Israel just uses sleep deprivation.

Of course the Zionists are behind this. Zzzz.

Hey, wake up! No sleeping allowed.

Thanks for the laugh...I had forgotten how to even smile today.

Here it is now Wednesday...may it be a better day for all...except the f*ing bastard cult of islam.

463 Mehitabel (formerly ylreveb)  Tue, May 11, 2004 8:35:08pm

they have no hearts

they have no minds

464 Joe  Tue, May 11, 2004 8:36:27pm

"Kill them all and let God sort them out" certainly applies now.

465 Mehitabel (formerly ylreveb)  Tue, May 11, 2004 8:39:35pm

G Cluster

I think someone ELSE misspelled Bethlehem.

466 virge randall  Tue, May 11, 2004 8:42:02pm

The Berg family was sandbagged in their grief by an AP reporter who told them for the first time that their family member had been decapitated and the video of the murder was online. An AP photographer was on hand to record the family's response. The father collapsed on the sidewalk in tears.

If you have any comments about the AP ambushing a grieving family in this way, and about their eagerness to print photos of humiliation inflicted on Iraqi POW's but not the torture/murder of Americans, go to this link of the directors and board members of the AP.

[Link: www.apme.com...]

The CEO of AP is Tom Curley; you may need to drop him a note via snail mail.

The flack is Jack Stokes at 212-621-1720.

467 trigger girlie  Tue, May 11, 2004 8:42:05pm

I have not watched the video (the file did not d/l on my computer) but just reading Charles' description made me sick to the core. As I was reading, I almost started crying. But not only because of the horrific descriptions or the pain that I feel for Nick or his parents, but from anger and frustration. I feel like a hamster running in a wheel and unable to escape. I really don't think that anyone is going to do anything about this terror. It is as the world of the blind is on a ride to hell, and we are the only seeing ones while the rest are enjoying the ride. When will the madness end? The answer is NEVER. The sick world has accepted what is coming to it, and there is nothing we can do. We all have to form a massive protest and fight the terror. We cannot just sit behind the computers anymore. Something has to be done or the humanity will plunge into the darkness completely.
Their actions has yet again proved that Islam is a Religion of animals, worse, beasts.

468 Globular Cluster  Tue, May 11, 2004 8:44:53pm
I think someone ELSE misspelled Bethlehem.

Sorry, I just assumed you scrambled the letters in your nic from something normal. I've had a few whiskey sodas so please forgive. Sorry that I distracted this thread with nonsense.

469 NY Nana  Tue, May 11, 2004 8:48:11pm

#454 Lazy Tart

They were all younger than my 3 sons..and my daughter. I know there is a thread about them, but cannot really look at all of it yet. The pain is too much.

Here is an article about what is happening now in Israel, where it is morning.

Givati resumes search for comrades' bodies in Gaza

The names of the six soldiers killed are: Sgt.-Maj. Edron Amar, 20, of Eilat; Sgt. Eitan Newman, 21, of Ramot in Jerusalem; Aviad Deri, 21, of Ma'aleh Adumim, Kobi Mizrahi, 20, of Moshav Matta, St.-Sgt. Ofer Gerbi, 20, of Moshav Ben Zakai, and Jacob Marvizi, from Kibbutz Geva.

May they rest in peace...

HaMakom yenachem et'chem b'toch shar avay'lay Tzion vee'Yerushalayim...May the Omnipresent comfort you among the mourners of Zion and Jerusalem.

470 Globular Cluster  Tue, May 11, 2004 8:48:29pm

#466 virge randall

Sometimes I think that emailing your outrage to various news organizations only encourages them to promote scandal that gets your attention.

They think they must be doing something right to get your eyes and ears. The media simply cannot be shamed in the same way that other institutions are shamed because they control, well, the media. Even Jayson Blair was a passing amusement.

471 Jack Frost  Tue, May 11, 2004 8:54:49pm

My God. Why would any of you want to see this? I dont understand. Charles's description was enough for me.

472 milk & cookies with Rumsfeld  Tue, May 11, 2004 9:04:40pm

#103 AndreaSF

My only consolation is that I can get off 6 shots at these bastard terrorists before they force themselves into my neighborhood and home...

"Six shots?!!" You only want to dust six [bigoted word]s? You really might want to consider a larger magazine. Think LARGE CAPACITY, my friend.

When the jihadi hordes are at your door, you definitely want to run out of targets before you run out of bullets. Run out of bullets and you'll have to reach deep down and go ninja on them with your knife like Cpl. Samuel Toloza did.

You can be stronger than you imagine. Ain't no one gonna put you in a burka!

473 Matt J.  Tue, May 11, 2004 9:07:00pm

471 Jack Frost

Because we all need to be reminded who the enemy is, and how real the threat is. It's not the boogeyman, but a real and tangible enemy.

474 God Bless America  Tue, May 11, 2004 9:15:21pm

Twenty minutes later...and I'm still sick to my stomach.

475 RMAC93  Tue, May 11, 2004 9:18:34pm

Allah is not the true God. The God of Abraham, the God of Israel, the one true God of Creation does NOT require human sacrifices...and HE does NOT accept them either.

These Islamists would do this to any of our children, too. Wake up America! Our very civilization is under attack. There are people in our own country who would excuse these atrocities and defend these maniacs...who wish to join them!

This is a war for the very survival of civilization...which side are YOU on?

Pray for strength. Pray for our country. Pray for our president.

Some people HAVE to be destroyed.

476 andreaSF  Tue, May 11, 2004 9:23:58pm

#460 Mark -- Amen, brother.

477 Swiftsure  Tue, May 11, 2004 9:26:17pm

Jumpin' Judas on a crotch-rocket!! We said We Were SORRY!! Gee, How many more times do we have to appologize?

Golly, nothing more left to do than pack up and go home I guess...we most certinaly don't want to antagonize them any more. I mean, why DO they hate us??? Let us look deeply into our navels now...

...uh...that was sarcastic, if nobody noticed...

I may be out of the loop here, haveing not been in the States for the past 12 years, but, is America so self-involved, weak, childish and churlish that even after the deaths of 3,000 people we still have to be reminded what and who were are fighting, Charles?

Here in Russia they bury dead Muj in pig-skins, and there was a debate about hanging them as well.

Mind you, that will never happen, we must show we are more "civilized" than these scum; which begs the question: How do you hold the moral high-ground with people who have no morality or even basic human values?

This, truly tragic and barbaric tape, I believe is really what the bull-fighters call "The Moment of Truth" for the American public: Do we fight now with re-newed resolve or do we cut and run? My wadger is that the Islamo-fascists and the Editiorial Board of the BBC/CBS and NYT have misunderestimated us with the Abu-Garib abuse play" I sincerely hope that from now on, when showed naked Arab asses arranged in a pyramid, the average American will say: " Well, shit, why did'nt we just hang them before hand?"

Betting stands at 2-to-1, any takers?

478 Jack Frost  Tue, May 11, 2004 9:28:22pm
Because we all need to be reminded who the enemy is, and how real the threat is. It's not the boogeyman, but a real and tangible enemy.

I know who the enemy is without watching a gruesomely despicable video of an innocent man being decapitated too slow.

479 merav  Tue, May 11, 2004 9:29:02pm

Charles, thank you for describing the videoclip in writing. Your words convinced me not to view it.

I saw the photos of the severed head of the Israeli soldier, face still identifiable, last night and I had trouble sleeping. Those poor mothers, and fathers and siblings. And spouses and kids.

My sincere condolences to the Berg family. I cannot imagine the horror they're going through.

Where are the "moderate" Moslems condemning this desecration of their "religion of peace?"

THe silence is deafening.

480 PostalWorker  Tue, May 11, 2004 9:29:23pm

#470 GlobularCustard

"Even Jayson Blair was a passing amusement."

I thought he got caught passing gas!

481 Stinky  Tue, May 11, 2004 9:29:52pm

I have to disagree with those who want to see these bastards shot. Killing them won't end it. I'm not playing the cycle of violence card, at least not from the typical moral relativity b.s. leftist card.

These people want to die. We honor them by killing them in battle. We honor their families by killing them in battle.

Death may be a punishment to them individually when they die and meet the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Jesus, but from a practical social deterence, killing does little. That's not to say we are to lay down our arms, of course if it's between us or them, shoot them in the face. But we need to be smarter, be more creative, and hit them where it hurts.

Living a life of shame hurts more than dying does. We load our guns w/ sleeping darts. We carpet bomb villages, not w/ explosives, but sleeping gas to where an entire village is unconscious for 8+ hours. We go in, find those who have bombs and weapons that can't possibly be justified in "2nd ammendment-just-trying-to-protect-myself-from-terr orists" quantities. We don't touch their weapons...yet. Just mark where they are, and who had them. We gather the men of those households, put them in prison.

We give them a choice: confess, or castration. Those we *know*, via intel, to be behind terrorist attacks, we make example of w/ automatic castration, and all the men will see the testicle-less terrorists march through the prison exposing their shame. Those who confess and go home and gather all their weapons, they retain their honor. Those who don't confess, and we know they were hiding bombs, they lose their nuts. We keep doing this village by village, until it sinks in. Those who fight back w/ suicide attacks, we vow to castrate their brothers and fathers and teenage sons. We promise we will take their boys and ship them to America to become Christians and Jews.

All the while, we praise those who cooperate in building a new Iraq. We create artificial award shows honoring "Best Iraqi Sculptor" or "Best Iraqi Humanitarian" or "Best Iraqi Scientist/Entreprenuer/Actor" ect. so that the whole society can see how to live an honorable life sublimated through productive activities.

We cannot fight this war caving into their established honor-shame system, by REWARDING them w/ honor simply by killing them. They MUST be shamed, or we will lose. If Allah has willed them die in battle, they can still interpret that as a victory. If Allah has willed them to lose their manhood, they can only see that as defeat for their tactics and interpretation of Islam.

Our country does not have the resolve to win this war in the longterm. We must win it quickly, now, yesterday, by changing our tactics from a shoot to kill into shoot to sleep. If we don't have the type of gas-bombs that can put a mosque asleep, we can invent them quickly.

Plus, the aura of knocking 30+ people unconscious and rearranging their lives will precede us. We will be like God. We will be feared and respected. Death, they do not fear. Shame, they do.

482 Frisco Patriot  Tue, May 11, 2004 9:30:07pm

This newly published (2004) over-one-thousand page long hardcover book by Craig Winn is an absolute MUST READ AND OWN for each one of us. Islam's Terrorist Dogma In Muhammad's Own Words Winn claims to have invested over 10,000 hours in pursuit of the unadulterated truth about Islam and the result is a modern classic. I wholeheartedly recommend this immensely readable book to one and all.

Islam is a caustic blend of regurgitated paganism and twisted Bible stories. Muhammad, its lone prophet, conceived his religion solely to satiate his lust for power, sex, and money. He was a terrorist. If you think these conclusions are shocking, wait until you see the evidence. The critics of this work will claim that Prophet of Doom is offensive, racist, hatemongering, intolerant, and unnecessarily violent. I agree--but I didn't write those parts. They came directly from Islam's scriptures. If you don't like what Muhammad and Allah said, don't blame me. I'm just the messenger.
483 PostalWorker  Tue, May 11, 2004 9:34:39pm

#478 Jack Frost

Oh then you know who Hillary, Ted, John F'n Kerry, Michael Moore (may he roast in hell), Ted Koppel, Dan Rather and friends are? Tell em I said to piss off for me would ya? I'll owe ya.

484 Frisco Patriot  Tue, May 11, 2004 9:46:54pm

#482

Charles;

The name of the book is PROPHET OF DOOM and I don't know why it didn't post. The link is: PROPHETOFDOM.NET Have you blocked the link for some reason? I'm curious to know why. The book resonates thoroughly with the content and tone of lgf.

Frisco Patriot

485 Jack Frost  Tue, May 11, 2004 9:49:02pm

PostalWorker #483
Really like Hillary, Dont care for Ted (he was always the worst of the kennedys), Going to vote for Kerry,oo I hate Michael Moore and his new stupid movie, . ok I'll tell them

486 Retro  Tue, May 11, 2004 9:49:40pm

Hi folks. I've been lurking on LGF for quite some time now. But the events of today have prompted me to at least introduce myself to your blog. I just wanted to say that it is high time that we found an organization of patriotic Jews, Christians, Hindus and other concerned Kaffirs for our common protection and for the promotion of western civilization. Some of you may ask "What is the point?", but somebody, someone out there must have the money and resources to put something together like this. I certainly couldn't hurt the cause of those who understand the true nature of the Islamofascists. We are fighting an irrational enemy and the complacency of too many in western countries is going to destroy us if something isn't done soon. I've seen a few of the pics of the Nick Berg murder and I almost can't take it anymore. We've got to stand up for each other and the media must be held accountable. Also, we need to push for more research and development of alternative fuel sources to make us less reliant on Middle East oil. I know there are many great ethnic organizations out there, each fighting the info war against the Islamofascists in their own way. But there needs to be greater co-operation, an umbrella group that can coordinate the actions that need to be taken. Of course, I'm just one small person in this world. But maybe, just maybe someone with more influence can take this idea and run with it. Any thoughs?

487 Egfrow  Tue, May 11, 2004 9:59:10pm

#460 Mark..

I know you mean well Mark but withdrawing will be the worst thing we can do. Withdrawing now will give the Fundamental Islamists validation of their tactics. Just as they have done in Spain. They will be emboldened and it will be viewed by the Muslim world as a sign of weakness. Giving in and appeasing will be the worse thing that you can do. Ask the Israelis. You can not negotiate or reason with people how never used rationale thought in the first place. This is the litmus test is US resolve. If we give up now then things really will escalate. The Moderate Muslim world will sway towards the FI because they will be perceived as winning. Kidnappings will increase as a result in every country where Americans are present making scenes like this video a more common occurrence world wide. Remember, It’s not just the FI that are our enemies, it’s also our political enemies that are embracing and supporting on the back channel. The money, intelligence, and technology is seeping into the FI’s hands because it’s being given to them. The Socialists, Communists, and Autocrats (i.e., Russia, France, China, NKorea, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and all the other Socialist and Dictator nanny states that currently control the UN. Also, as many might be aware, The hard left faction that was commandeered the Democratic party are also appear to have a common incentive to encourage the FI and should start to be looked at as National Traitors. Little do the know that the crocodiles will turn to feed on them when we are gone. Pulling out of Iraq is the worst thing we can do.

488 Kevin C  Tue, May 11, 2004 10:14:02pm

People! Think about this...I am no great supporter of Islam, but always look at both sides of the story. First off, just because the media released Nick Bergs decapitation does not mean that there arent videos, possibly far worse of Muslims decapitated and tortured. However since we all know who controls the media, they will never appear on TV. For all you know it could be anyone behind those masks...jews , hindus, christians...anyone can learn arabic!

I am a Christian, white if anyone must know...Man dont you guys even know...Lord Jesus begged God for forgiveness for the people who killed them and said that "they dont know what they do". DAMN IT what is Nick Berg or any other guy compared to our Saviour and believe it or not Muslims believe in Jesus as on of their prophets.

Sure go ahead kill all the Muslims, but we have to realize that this wont just end there. Our world might very well come to an end cuz what goes around comes around.

I dont think any of you angry folks will take a time to think about this.

GOD BLESS.

489 merav  Tue, May 11, 2004 10:39:26pm

#488, Kevin,

Do you honestly believe that if there were videos of Muslims being decapitated, that al-Jazeera wouldn't be broadcasting them with a call for jihad?

"however since we all know who controls the media"

No. Why don't you tell us.

I always find it amusing when visitors to this thread declare "bet you never even thought about it," or "I didn't expect any intelligent discussion here." Doesn't stop them from dropping in and discussing, however.

Since you apparently are a religious person, here are two edifyng remarks. First, no one was comparing Nick Berg to Jesus, at least not in any of the posts I read. (Although I admit I have skimmed over some.)

Secondly, according to Christian belief, Jesus' crucifixion was preordained, for the good of the whole world ad infinitum. You as a Christian should know this. Are you suggesting that Nick Berg's decapitation was also preordained, and if so, then please describe the purpose. And if this is not what you're suggesting, then why the parallel allusion to Jesus' call for forgiveness?

Finally, I haven't GAZED at you for three reasons: First, you may possibly be sincere; second, you may possibly be under the influence; and third, you may possibly be kidding.

If you're kidding, good work, and regards to Aisha.

490 aaron  Tue, May 11, 2004 10:41:32pm

well, I gave it my best shot folks, but I've had to remove the movie from all our sites. seems person or persons unknown want pretty badly to keep it from being seen. move along. nothing to see.

491 RMcLeod  Tue, May 11, 2004 10:42:42pm

As always, the terrorists overreach and miscalculate.

This story will be the end of the Abu Ghraib story, even Larry King (see above) senses it.

But that was a minor episode anyway. This however, will not be.

The country is at an inflection point. It could tip two ways: surrender and appeasement or total commitment, which will include turning on the media, the Left, and the Democrats.

The Islamofascists will guarantee that it will tip to total commitment. They cannot help themselves.

Zarqawi, who was behind this, just as he was behind the Fallujah bridge monstrosity, is a total loose cannon, an even worse strategist (if that's possible) than bin Laden.

He will, guaranteed, continue to do unbelievably horrific things. He cannot help himself. The man is stupid as dirt. Totally without patience, vision, or anything beyond a rudimentary grasp of the human psyche.

America will not take it. It is half a step away from saying "Fuck it" kill them all and let God sort it out.

It will happen before November, because Zarqawi WILL do something extremely violent before then.

492 merav  Tue, May 11, 2004 10:43:33pm

#490, aaron,

Hi. Maybe that's for the best.

493 Frank_Mtl  Tue, May 11, 2004 10:45:10pm

# 488 Kevin C
FOAD

494 Tsedek  Tue, May 11, 2004 10:53:07pm

Was trying to write "something" here. Problem is: how can one express one's feelings after yesterday? It is so horrifying - so totally incomprehendable - so saddening.

Although personally going for the "hit the bad guys, save the innocent" method - I come to understand that by doing so we're losing too many of our own innocent.

They - the terrorism - IS winning you know! Maybe not physically, but they're certainly bringing our -at least my- values down. It seems that sticking to our values means paying a too high price.

I'm sure it'll come to an all-out show-down in the end, for they'll never give up until they're defeated - they think they're on the right track - and they are. How awful I feel by admitting that only their total destruction and that of the people they're hiding behind - and they are willing to sacrifice - will bring victory, and the so longed for peace.

I'm sad. It feels good to come here every once in a while to share my feelings - thank you.


...

495 merav  Tue, May 11, 2004 11:01:58pm

#486, retro,

welcome. Your idea sounds idealistic, IMHO, but there's nothing wrong with idealism.

I agree with what you say about Western complacency. We all seem to be stuck on this politically correct page of not insulting "moderate" Islam, but WHERE IS "moderate" Islam? What are they doing to stop these crimes against humanity? Why are they silent as their "religion of peace" is desecrated? Aren't they angry that terrorists control the image of Islam? So why don't they do anything to help the rest of the world from this plague being committed in their names?

Nothing. So we have to decide when we stop owing them the political correctness they don't deserve.

But unfortunately I can't see that happening any time soon.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not for violating the civil rights of law-abiding Moslems. But why let terrorists hide behind the respect due to law-abiding Moslems?

Islam is either being raped, or, maybe its "scholars" are right and this IS the true face of Islam. In either case, it cannot be allowed to continue this continuous orgy of violence. Yes, war is violence, but when they decapitate civilians, that's not war, it's crimes against humanity.

IMHO.

496 Egfrow  Tue, May 11, 2004 11:07:15pm

# 488 Kevin C,

I found it very intereting the order in which you chose to list the possible assailants that killed that American.

. For all you know it could be anyone behind those masks...jews , hindus, christians...anyone can learn arabic!

So, does it matter that you are christian. Even a communist can be a christian. I don't see how that matters.

the media released Nick Bergs decapitation

Um, I'm not sure that you are aware of this but CNN did not release the video. It was realease from an Islamic Fundamentalist website. You are confused about the source.

"they dont know what they do". DAMN IT what is Nick Berg or any other guy compared to our Saviour

You must have just got back from watching "The Passion of Christ" It's the Joooss!!! You are a Christian and used the Words. "Saviour, Forgive, God", and "Damn IT"??? I question your christian values.

Sure go ahead kill all the Muslims, but we have to realize that this wont just end there. Our world might very well come to an end cuz what goes around comes around.

Kill all the muslims, I think we are trying to save them. You seem a little confused about what the USA is all about. I think "CUZ" we know how enlightend you are.

497 IslamInTheNews  Tue, May 11, 2004 11:54:04pm

A copy of the full video can be found here [Link: www.islam.serveftp.net...]

498 AU  Tue, May 11, 2004 11:58:53pm

#414   Ted Engel  5/11/2004 09:01PM PST
WROTE:
...What is culturally relative are opinions about right and wrong, not right and wrong themselves.

 
Mr. Engle,

Thank you. Your last sentence says it all. Its all one needs to tell the LLLs. How can the LLL be so confused about right and wrong? Fcking relativists.

An LLL once explained to me that Einstein was a relativist. The ass was so fcking stupid it took me twenty minutes to explain the difference between scientific/physical relativisim and moral/cultural relativisim.

The fcking idiots of the LLL.

And that , my friends, is not a relative statement.

499 jake  Wed, May 12, 2004 12:07:14am

video and pictures are temporarily mirrored at the DRUNK report. dont know how long theyll keep it though..

500 halldor  Wed, May 12, 2004 12:07:27am

As Oriana Fallaci points out in her book "La Forza Della Ragione", the Islamists and Al Qaeda are trying to foment and promote a civil war in Western Europe and the United States.

The circulation of this barbaric video is one of the means by which they hope to achieve their aims. They hope that the intense rage it arouses will impel Americans and Europeans to attack Muslims in the West, thereby causing a polarization between right and left, and leading to a general conflagration.

They have probably miscalculated here, as the video will merely unite right and left in a sense of deep revulsion - at least, we must hope that that will be so.

501 Will Smythe  Wed, May 12, 2004 12:32:01am

The Koran’s 150 Jihad Verses Compiled by Yoel Natan
[Link: www.angelfire.com...]

502 DP111  Wed, May 12, 2004 1:24:12am

293 look at yourself first

I realise that there is no Islamic pope but I did question why representatives of the Islamic world did not apologise for the ritual murder of Daniel Pearl and Nick Berg. My point in this is that these slayings were not 'ordinary murders'. They were done as a symbol of the contempt muslims hold for kufrs. These types of slayings are not uncommon, its just that Daniel and Nick were Westerners and thus the media highlights them. In Bangladesh, Pakistan, Indonesia, Nigeria and other muslim nations, such a practice is quite common. The Barnabus Fund's web site catalogues the systemic persecution of Christians in Muslim nations.

Now you excuse the holy incantations on the basis that anyone can use them at any given time. True. However, in both Daniel and Nicks case, Allahu Akbar chants were used as the ritual sacrificial slaughter took place. There is a common thread that runs here. Islamic Religion in its theology and practice, is closely tied to killing the kaffir. There is no getting away from it.

Just imagine a situation that Westerners, nominally Christian, slaughtered Muslims by slitting their throats. As they did so, one of them invoked words said at the Holy Communion. If this happened once, one might argue that it was some satanic rite but if it happened consistently, then surely it would be time for some serious examination of Christian teachings. So even if apologies are now issued from the Islamic world, from political leaders and arab/muslim papers, this in itself is not sufficient. They have to examine how is it that their holy incants, soon to blare out from a town near you, are the same ones they use as a war cry and for ritual slaugher.

Excusing such behaviour from the Islamic world has been a constant in the last 50 years by equating it with atypical Western immorality; a typical Liberal response. It does no one any good and is patronising to the Islamic world, inasmuch that we dont expect any better from them, due to the nature of their creed.

503 Shira  Wed, May 12, 2004 1:30:50am

I don't know if I can handle watching the video. Just reading the description made me feel physically ill and started me weeping. I have no words to describe how absolutely sick and disgusting this is. When is the rest of the world going to wake up and realize what we are up against? All of us, without exception!

I feel like I have just read about a human sacrifice, and not even one that can claim an intent to benefit the rest of society, as some ancient cultures believed they were doing when they carried out this practice. That was bad enough, coming as it did from profound darkness and ignorance, but this is so much worse. This was done for the pure joy of doing evil. I can't fathom it, and I hope I never do.

504 JWarrior  Wed, May 12, 2004 1:45:18am

#488

For all you know it could be anyone behind those masks...jews , hindus, christians...anyone can learn arabic!

Yeah 'COZ' Iraq is just swarming with Jews, Hindus and Christians.

STFU!

505 Eric  Wed, May 12, 2004 2:42:10am

Only sick fucking animals would do such a thing.

506 Jeff B.  Wed, May 12, 2004 3:30:21am

I stopped posting at this site long ago (but still read it daily) because I felt the anger and rage in the comments section was getting way out of hand.


For the first time since 9.11.01 I feel like rejoining. Rage is such an inadequate word at times like this. Rage at these murdering bastards, despair at an (unwittingly, I still believe) near-traitorous media which will run Abu Ghraib photos day and night but won't touch this one with a ten-foot-pole, rage at those who will claim this is just recompense for our soldiers' misdeed.

Rage. Pure, cold and unstrained. It's actually an intensely disorienting feeling to experience - is there something wrong with me? Am I becoming less humane? Or simply more realistic?

Yeah. Rage.

507 Ben F  Wed, May 12, 2004 3:36:38am

Consider how civilized these Islamists are compared to their breathren in Gaza.

Why, they even returned Mr. Berg's head instead of holding it for ransom!

508 DP111  Wed, May 12, 2004 3:41:18am

488 Kevic C

However since we all know who controls the media, they will never appear on TV

I dont know. Can you please enlighten me.

509 Michael  Wed, May 12, 2004 3:45:19am

I tried all the sites listed to see the video, and all of them were "404" - does anyone have the video saved and can either e-mail it or something?

Even worse, do I really want to see it?

510 timdiener  Wed, May 12, 2004 3:52:10am

I could kill all 5 of them myself, with my bare hands!

511 Yasir  Wed, May 12, 2004 3:52:23am

By Samir Haddad, Mazen Ghazi IOL Correspondents

BAGHDAD , May 12 (IslamOnline.net) – Iraqis strongly condemned Wednesday, May 13, the beheading of an American citizen in Iraq by unknown people, saying it is against the true essence of Islam.

Deputy Head of the Islamic Party Iyaad Samarrai said the abhorrent treatment of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. soldiers should never give an excuse for treating U.S. prisoners the same way.

"This is absolutely wrong," he told IslamOnline.net, asserting that "Islam does prohibit the killing or the maltreatment of prisoners."

Samarrai said such acts harm the interest of the Iraqi people and their cause to end the U.S.-led occupation.

"Non-Iraqis are also required not to act on their own, as their practices worsen matters," he added.

A video put on a website linked to Al-Qaeda shows the beheading of Nicholas Berg with his executioners saying it came in revenge for the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. troops.

Berg arrived in Iraq for the first time in December 2003. In mid March, Berg was held by the U.S. military in the northern city of Mosul for no apparent reason, prompting his father to file a lawsuit in a federal court in Philadelphia, British daily The Independent said.

He was released by the Americans on April 6 and disappeared since April 9 in unknown circumstances, the daily said.

Under the title "The moment of revenge: a young man beheaded for television," the mass-circulation paper likened the horrific incident to the Iraqi prisoner scandal as " cruel image for cruel image".

Against Islam

Al-Dawa Party, led by Shiite Interim Governing Council member Ibrahim Al-Jafari, also condemned the decapitation of the American citizen in the strongest possible terms.

"Undoubtedly, we reject these acts, which run counter to the true essence of Islam and are totally unjustified," said Jawad Al-Malki, a member of the party’s politburo.

He said such acts tarnish the image of Islam and play into the hands of subjective media.

"The beheading of Berg is shocking, grisly, unjustified violence and an act of terrorism," he told IOL.

"By the same token, we condemn the barbaric and terrorist practices of U.S. soldiers against Iraqi prisoners, but as we don’t want this to befall our people, we don’t want it to befall others as well."

Out Of Control

Mohammad Bashar Al-Faidi, professor of Islamic studies in Al-Imam Al-Azam University , said the tit-for-tat reprisals have slipped out of control.

He said the days to come will witness more violence as repercussions for the maltreatment of Iraqi prisoners "which tattered the Iraqi dignity and honor".

But Faidi feared the beheading of the American citizen would overshadow the Iraqi prisoner scandal.

"It will surely drift the attention of public opinion from the torture and abuse of Iraqi prisoners," he said.

William Warda, an Iraqi rights activist, criticized the beheading as "imprudent".

He said the Iraqi Human Rights Organization denounces the killing of any foreigner in such a gruesome way as it has condemned the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by occupation forces.

"We place all human beings on an equal footing irrespective of their race, religion and color," he told IOL.

The activist said the Iraqi people have behind them a time-honored civilization and reject such unwise practices.

The video, titled "Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi slaughtering an American", showed five hooded men standing behind Berg while one of them read a statement denouncing the abuses of Iraqi detainees at the notorious Abu Ghraib prison.

The bearded victim was seated on the ground dressed in an orange jumpsuit while the statement was read.

After the statement was finished, Berg's captors decapitated him with a large knife.

The State Department said the body of Berg, a Philadelphia resident, was found at the weekend dumped in Baghdad .

U.S. intelligence was investigating whether Al-Zarqawi, a leading Al-Qaeda operative, was involved in the slaying of 26-year-old Berg.

512 ML  Wed, May 12, 2004 3:53:17am

A working link to the vido as of 8:30 AM today is:

[Link: www.homelandsecurityus.com...]

513 ML  Wed, May 12, 2004 3:56:33am

Sorry, the link to the video is at the bottom of the lead story. [Link: www.homelandsecurityus.com...]

514 Yasir  Wed, May 12, 2004 3:58:22am
515 Look at yourself first  Wed, May 12, 2004 4:09:39am

#414

"Even if it were true that our moral beliefs are the result of cultural conditioning, such an observation does nothing to show that our beliefs are false." Indeed, neither does it anything to show our beliefs are true. It's because we value our beliefs above others beliefs ; just because of that we think our beliefs are superior to others.

"We know objective moral values exist because we clearly apprehend some of them". Name one , let's see if it is a moral value or the rationalization of a basic human pulsion, like the will to live.

"If someone fails to see the objective moral truth of such matters, he or she is simply morally handicapped, like a color-blind person who cannot see the difference between red and green, and there's no reason to think their impairment should make us call into question what we see clearly."

Assuming that the person is morally handicapped , using your medical analogy with colorblindness, do you kill handicapped people even if you know they were just born without luck or were conditioned to become so ? That implies measuring human life with some
unit of measure..for instace, religious zealots sometime use the argument of the sanctity of life, yet they're very quick at demanding death for these that don't respect human life , therefore they don't really respect human life otherwise why do they ask to kill ? Indeed if you see something clearly, that doesn't mean you're not into an allucination.

#426 Indeed slavery may be a product of the firm belief by someone that africans are inferior ; that belief was maybe firm and honest in somebody (that doesn't make them less condemnable, just not guilty of being morons) while others saw that racism was good because africans were a valuable almost 0 cost source of labor , cotton picking being the most remembered one. Others in America disagreed and believed individual freedom was more valuable then slavery and definitely more valuable then the cotton picking
business. The war indeed ended the condition of slavery in many states, unfortunately it didn't end racism which is still running rampant in U.S. and other countries.

Same happening in Iraq : U.S. military won the first battle and removed Saddam , giving some degree of freedom to iraquis. Now the next battle is an years long one against pseudo-religious extremist ; the least thing we need is our own extremists to start an holy war against other extremist. While we're at it, we may try to remove our extremists (expecially the pseudo religious loudmouths) from our backyard as well before they -really- manage to spin us into an holy war.

#500 Exactly. The video is just a way to incite an holy war. I just can hope americans/europeans don't buy into the concept of holy war.

#502 Now I think yours is some much better reasoning. Indeed I'm looking around the net for apologies from islamic leaders, but I'm also looking for condemnation of prison torture from Christian's Pope and other religious representatives. From .it tv I managed to hear some apology from groups of everyday muslism. Definitely if some apology is being propagated I don't expect to find it on Reuters or common everyday source..probably on the net, probably by some u.S. or European islamic group.

"They have to examine how is it that their holy incants, soon to blare out from a town near you, are the same ones they use as a war cry and for ritual slaugher".

I definitely agree with that. This is going to take time, hopefully some large group of moderate muslims is slowly forming and if there is already one it must be brought to surface quickly before terrorist manage to produce more knee-jerk reactions.

As for the liberal apologies : I don't know if it is like you say and I'll give you the benefit of doubt in your favor. Even if it's so I guess this is NOT the best time for liberal vs dems vs republican vs martian discussion, but unfortunately (and I guess not by coincidence) elections are incoming. It will be quite a mess.

516 nuke iraq  Wed, May 12, 2004 4:12:11am

one big giant glowing parking lot... if I never hear the words allah akbar again, it will be too soon

517 timdiener  Wed, May 12, 2004 4:17:23am

Statements like this, quoted from an above link just INFURIATE me;

"Undoubtedly, we reject these acts, which run counter to the true essence of Islam and are totally unjustified," said Jawad Al-Malki, a member of the party’s politburo.

How about we say it 'runs counter' to the 'true essence' of being human?!

518 timdiener  Wed, May 12, 2004 4:22:38am

Oh, and how classic is this statement from an NGO, also from the above posting?!:

***

William Warda, an Iraqi rights activist, criticized the beheading as "imprudent".

He said the Iraqi Human Rights Organization denounces the killing of any foreigner in such a gruesome way as it has condemned the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by occupation forces.

***

"imprudent" ?!?!?! Comparing photos of naked Iraqis to this ?!?!?!

519 timdiener  Wed, May 12, 2004 4:29:25am

yo "LOOK",

***

"#500 Exactly. The video is just a way to incite an holy war. I just can hope americans/europeans don't buy into the concept of holy war."

***

If this isn't a great time for a holy war (i.e. a Crusade) against evil, then I don't know when there ever will be one.

You'd prefer to fight the war against Islamo-Fascists through the court system? !

520 timdiener  Wed, May 12, 2004 4:36:10am

yo "LOOK",

***

""hopefully some large group of moderate muslims is slowly forming and if there is already one it must be brought to surface quickly before terrorist manage to produce more knee-jerk reactions.""

***

I'd hate to wake you up out of the dream world you are opining from, but I really wouldn't hold my breath for the above to happen. Have you seen any inkling of anything like that happening anywhere in the last three years?!

Do we really believe there is any such thing as a "moderate muslim" any more? I sure hear about them alot in the media and from the 'left'. But to this day, still can't identify one, or point to anything that any so called "moderate muslim" has done to assist us in our cause against the fascist Islamists.

521 Andrew Ian Dodge  Wed, May 12, 2004 4:39:56am

A Muslim leader was interviewed on the Daily Politics today. Did he take this opportunity to condemn the beheading? No, of course not, he went off on a rant about the "humiliation" of Muslim prisoners. His silence on the beheading speaks volumnes.

522 Michael  Wed, May 12, 2004 4:49:59am

#232

Anyone interested in a March on Washington to burn Saudi, Syria, Iran and Pali flags?


and

Forget burning the flags, let's just burn Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iran and the PA to the ground.

The question is, though, would it really help? While I personally think that we need to destroy Mecca, Medina, Damascus, Khaddafi (duck), Arafat, this Sadr piece of trash, etc., would it really help?

Also, would getting a fatwa issued do any good? I mean, and I hate to say it, I don't think any of this is going to do any good.

I just don't know.

523 Powderfinger  Wed, May 12, 2004 4:56:06am

#520 timdiener

But to this day, still can't identify one, or point to anything that any so called "moderate muslim" has done to assist us in our cause against the fascist Islamists.

There are some, but they're few and far between. Oh, and they get death threats from loving, peaceful, slightly less moderate Muslims.

Here's one:

Irshad Manji

524 Georges  Wed, May 12, 2004 5:01:32am

Reading the above comments and viewing the MURDER of a young man, my question is so what. The bushies WILL NOT DO A DAMN THING, CONGRESS WILL NOT DO A DAMN THING, SENATOR KERRY WILL POINT HIS INDEX FINGER AT HIS AUDIENCE AND STATE: " WHEN I AM PRESIDENT ... " AND THE "MAIN" STREAM MEDIA AND ANTI-WAR MOONBATS WILL BLAME THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION AND AMERICA. IT IS TIME FOR THE PRESEDIENT TO GO ON NATIONAL TELEVISION AND TELL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THAT WE ARE AT WAR, AND WE ARE TAKING OFF THE GLOVES. NO MORE RELIGION OF PEACE CRAP. HE WOULDN'T THOUGH ... THE PUSSIFICATION OF AMERICA IS AT WORK. START GROWING YOUR BEARDS BOYS AND GIRLS START COVERING YOURSELF UP.

525 Mark  Wed, May 12, 2004 5:05:24am
While I personally think that we need to destroy Mecca, Medina, Damascus, Khaddafi (duck), Arafat, this Sadr piece of trash, etc., would it really help?

That is what I've been asking myself. My first response to the atrocity committed against Nick Berg was to say, let's kill them all. But in my life I am trying to live in a way that I can feel proud of. To live an honorable life. And when I imagine facing God after my death I know I wouldn't be able to justify murdering millions of muslims who are just people who want to live their lives.

The problem is that there's this percentage of barbarians among them who have a different agenda and who want to see us all dead or at least subjugated. The problem is that we can't easily pick them out from the peaceful people. We can try to do some sort of detective work over there and identify the barbarians one by one, and we'll catch some of them that way, but I don't think we'll ever catch all of them. And it only takes a few of them to make achieving our mission of democratizing that area improbable.

What does that leave us? We can't kill them all or subjugate them with ruthlessness without violating our fundamental American principles of respect for human rights and opposition to collective guilt. I don't think we can "fix" them or catch all the bad guys. We can try for a while. Years even. But what if this stuff is still going on in 10 years? Are we willing to become a permanent occupation force in Iraq, subjecting generations of our young people to danger over there?

The only option I can see is to isolate muslims and arabs in their own countries. They have no means of attacking us unless we let them into our countries; so don't let them in. And kick out the ones who aren't citizens. Leave them to simmer and stew in their cesspool of Sharia and 7th century barbarism. We isolated Iran like that for 25 years, and before the recent events in Iraq our reputation among the average Iranians was very good. After 25 years under Ayatollahs, Americans and western values looked very good.

I think we have to execute a strategic withdrawal. There's a difference between giving up, and adjusting your strategy based on the results you've been getting. I just don't think the strategy of making Iraq democractic is going to work, though I'd be willing to give it another year or so at least.

526 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 12, 2004 5:11:00am

This is teaching me to hate in ways I didn't think possible.

I went to bed last night praying for God's wrath to be poured out on these people.

A German writer, asked for his opinion on Hitler, said: Man kann nicht soviel essen, wie man kotzen möchte. You can't eat as much as you'd like to puke.

I'm going to be sick for days.

527 timdiener  Wed, May 12, 2004 5:12:17am

Hey "Powder",

Good call! I have seen Irshad Manji on the news programs. She's great! Unfortunately, like you say, 'too few and far between'. She inevitably MUST receive a lot of threats from other Muslims.

This term 'moderate muslim' is used so reflexively by the media though, often to describe people whose public statements are NOT 'moderate' at all.

Therefore, this 'moderate muslim' phrase is a watch word that makes my ears prick up, and makes me listen with great skeptism wherever I hear it.

528 timdiener  Wed, May 12, 2004 5:16:04am

I second that! VERY well said!


***
#525 Mark

The only option I can see is to isolate muslims and arabs in their own countries. They have no means of attacking us unless we let them into our countries; so don't let them in. And kick out the ones who aren't citizens.

***

529 DP111  Wed, May 12, 2004 5:34:23am

515 Look at yourself first

Indeed I'm looking around the net for apologies from islamic leaders, but I'm also looking for condemnation of prison torture from Christian's Pope and other religious representatives.

I do not think there is any necessity for that as the actions of the soldiers in Iraqi prisoner abuse, was not motivated with Christian bigotry in mind. The Pope may well condemn the abuse, but that is part and parcel of his role.

I see that you are trying to be balanced in your approach. But there are times that one has to be clear sighted. It is not just the act but the motivation behind, that characterises what we are up against.

530 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 12, 2004 5:42:55am

Latest from al-Reuters:

Iraqis Shocked by Beheading, Despair Over Violence

Reuters - 45 minutes ago

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Most Baghdad residents on Wednesday condemned al Qaeda's beheading of a US civilian in Iraq, but many said his death was just the latest atrocity in a cycle of violence that is driving them to despair.


Ah yes, the famous cycle. Damn those cyclists and their Jewish puppet masters! Lance Armstrong, we're coming for you!

/mordant sarcasm

531 sad  Wed, May 12, 2004 5:44:55am

you guys are sad, lol. And btw, Allah, is the arabic word for god. You'll find catholics, orthodocs, all christians use the word allah as well. It's not an islamic god, it's the WORD God in a diffrent language.

The video is nasty, and disgracefull, i agree. The video of americans torturing the iraqi's is worse IMO though.

532 crusadette  Wed, May 12, 2004 5:53:28am

I hate the muslim faith. I hate the way they treat women, I hate their backward culture, I hate that we have to "free" them, I hate their moronic thought process, and I hate the fact that they will never change and live in peace with others unlike them. They will never, never change. Just as I will never, never change from my culture or religious influences. What is the answer? There isn't one. There is only one solution and no one here in this country will entertain it yet. I don't normally post things like this anywhere. I am sick of it all and I don't care anymore what happens over there.

533 zulubaby  Wed, May 12, 2004 5:58:29am
The video of americans torturing the iraqi's is worse IMO though.

Do you have a link to that? I haven't seen a video of Americans torturing Iraqis. Or are you lying?

534 Charles  Wed, May 12, 2004 6:00:49am

"sad" (#531) is posting from South Carolina.

535 Athos  Wed, May 12, 2004 6:02:28am

#531 Sad

The video is nasty, and disgracefull, i agree. The video of americans torturing the iraqi's is worse IMO though.

A clear example of how sad and pathetic you are.

Only a complete idiot would think that the 2 events are remotely comparable - yet you find a terrorist or murderer wearing a leash while naked worse than the brutal cold blooded murder of someone?

Pathetic.
Sick.
Ignorant.

536 zulubaby  Wed, May 12, 2004 6:02:30am

Doesn't seem all that sad anyway, just a liar.

537 halldor  Wed, May 12, 2004 6:04:20am

#519 timdiener

If this isn't a great time for a holy war (i.e. a Crusade) against evil, then I don't know when there ever will be one.

The question is: do we have the will - and the means - to fight such a war against Muslims, not in Iraq or Afghanistan, but right here in Western Europe and the United States?

Oriana Fallaci believes that we are already engaged in this war: she calls it "the civil war (morally a civil war) which the slaves of Islam have provoked and are presently conducting against the West". (LFDR, p. 21)

538 Radian  Wed, May 12, 2004 6:07:50am

531
Allah is not my god. Being drawn and quartered is torture, being put in a decompression chamber is torture, being naked and having your head fucked with is a psyop.

I don't recall one dead person from the "prison scandal", not one.
You don't have video unless you hold secret clearance. Even if you did you will get a collectve who gives a shit from me.

I say we follow the Geneva convention to the letter, armed, un uniformed combatants are to be given no quarter, shot on sight. Solves the problem of their future "mistreatment".

539 american  Wed, May 12, 2004 6:17:12am
And btw, Allah, is the arabic word for god. You'll find catholics, orthodocs, all christians use the word allah as well. It's not an islamic god, it's the WORD God in a diffrent language

Entirely false. The "god" of Islam is a false god and is not the one true triune God of Christianity. Don't equivocate.

540 phillyp  Wed, May 12, 2004 6:19:03am

That's some sick shit.

541 SA  Wed, May 12, 2004 6:29:25am

Sad,

you pathetic sadist fuck. I live in Saudi arabia. I know what you do to maids and minorities here. What the US soldiers did to those prisoners is nothing compare to what your brothers do to the labor hand here. I do not mean to justify what the soldiers did but to say that it is worse that what your breathen do on a daily basis is just fucking unbelievable!

542 numbersjoc  Wed, May 12, 2004 6:56:30am

#22 How in the hell can 90% of muslims be on our side .when 99.9% of the islamic religion is ruled by satan.

543 SA  Wed, May 12, 2004 7:05:38am

Numbersjoc,

No matter where they are born, no matter where they are raised, Muslims are on the side of Islam and only Islam.

544 SA  Wed, May 12, 2004 7:14:59am

#525 Mark

"The only option I can see is to isolate muslims and arabs in their own countries. They have no means of attacking us unless we let them into our countries; so don't let them in. And kick out the ones who aren't citizens."

I second this. But I will go further and say that even the one who are citizens but refuse to integrate, make life so miserable for them, that they will decide to immigrate.

545 Bigger Digger  Wed, May 12, 2004 7:16:32am

The Islamofascists know what we don't know. They are fighting a war because they are very well aware that their culture and way of life is absolutely incompatible with modernity, with civilization, with humanity. They are fighting a war to maintain their filthy, demonic barbarism.

We aren't yet fighting a war.

Wars are the most evil of all human endevours, except for the alternative: National Extinction. War should be avoided at all costs, until it can't be avoided any more. The Islamicists started fighting a war in 1979. What we have been fighting since 9-11 is not in any sense of a word a "war."

Wars are a horrifying, simple, grim calculus. You win a war when the other side's pile of crazed, frothing dead young men is larger than your own pile of dead frothing crazed young men. The enemy is defeated when they run out of frothing, crazed young men. Wars are incredibly hobbesian: there is nothing noble about a dead soldier (What is so noble about a soldier who never learned how to aim fast and well, to kill first?) You win the enemies hearts and minds by having them by the balls. Not by dropping them culturally appropriate TV dinners and getting the power grid up and running so they can watch Al Jazeera.

The foolish Mr. Berg did not know we were at war. He was there to help.

There is a picture on the internet that shows war as crazed and demented as it really is. It is a picture of an American soldier riding a Japanese bicycle in Japan, a few months after World War 2 ended. He is riding completely unarmed, except for a Japanese umbrella, or a parasol as they were then called. He is trying to ride a bicycle while simultaneously holding the parasol, the way the Japanese do. He has a loopy, happy look on his face. (There are no Japanese in the photo, but I bet they were extremely humiliated) He is oblivious to the danger of his situation - an occupier of a vanquished bitter enemy - because, well, his situation is not dangerous. Why is his situation not dangerous? Because a few miles away, Tokyo is a flattened, smouldering cinder. And because the pile of dead crazed young frothing Japanese soldiers is much larger than the pile of dead crazed young frothing American soldiers.

A friend of mine fought in Vietnam. He was a crazed young frothing Marine Recon. He confided in me two stories. One was of a notorious Marine sniper who visited his firebase. While this sniper walked along, the crazed frothing young American soldiers parted and the air of worship of this man was palatable. When he spoke, he spoke of spending days and even weeks setting himself up for a kill. He would not bathe and would rub the local flora and fauna on himself so that the enemy would not detect him by smell. He would bring his candies without wrappers, because errant candy wrappers are dangerous: they might inadvertently disclose his location. His job was to hunt and kill human beings, and he was excellent at it. Soldiers who weren't as proficient at killing human beings were astonished and envious of his stories.

Maybe its just me, but I cannot see how any of these hard-earned techniques would be valuable within a civilian society. I wonder what this man did after the war. Would his experience help him sell insurance?

Another time, my friend saw several barechested Special Forces troops came in from the jungle. They were bedecked with handmade necklaces, made out of the ears of the enemy, so they could easier keep track of their "kills." When they were not killing and scalping the enemy, for sport they would hunt and kill tigers. As long as they could kill, they were happy, in their happy psychotic way.

What happened to these psychotics when they got back to the United States? Did they make necklaces of pearls?

Not far from where I live, there is an obelisk that memorializes the young, crazed frothing Canadian soldiers who fought and died in World War 1. What piqued my interest was that several names on the monument were obviously related: The Uncles died with their Nephews and the Nephews died with their cousins and the cousins died with their ... fathers? In a town of 100 souls, there were 32 young, crazed frothing dead Canadian soldiers commemerated.

So I did some research and found out that all 32 of them died on the first day of the Battle of the Somme. Here is what is worse than War: Going to War because you believe it is a Good Thing. In the terrible terrible Battle of the Somme, Britain ceased being an Empire. Its pile of dead, crazed frothing young soldiers became larger than the pile of dead, crazed frothing young German soldiers. Why is believing War is a Good Thing such a bad idea?


Because it made Oxford Educated British Officers "go over the top" of the safety of their trenches and charge into German machine gun nests armed only with fashionable riding crops. They thought they were fighting for the Queen and the Empire.

This is no way to make the pile of dead crazed young frothing Germans larger!

And since the pile of dead, crazed frothing young Germans wasn't large enough to convince Germans that peace was better than war, the British ended up fighting World War 2.

There you have it. We have in no way entered into a war, a war that is being fought by one side. Our pile of dead innocent civilians will have to get much much larger before we enter into the grim calculus.

546 halldor  Wed, May 12, 2004 7:44:06am

#545 Big Digger

The foolish Mr. Berg did not know we were at war.

I thought your argument is that we are not at war?

Or did I misunderstand?

547 lazytart  Wed, May 12, 2004 7:49:38am

Sad,

Well, then, I won't be SAD when an islamic savages hacks away at your neck whilst you screen and choke on your own blood.

I'll just "Remember Abu Graib" and hum to myself.

548 J  Wed, May 12, 2004 8:12:08am

I have done a complete turn around. After 9/11, I felt it was very important to separate the "moderate muslim" from the "radical Islamicist". After the events occuring on a daily basis in Europe, Israel, Asia, Russia, USA, etc etc etc, I have realized that there is no difference between a moderate or radical muslim. They are the same. Islam is not a religion of peace as the CAIR and others would want the world to believe, rather it is a religion of hatred and violence. I am tired of our media and politicians perverting the events happening in the world for their own political agandas. When is our country going to wake up and realize that these poeple want to kill all of us, Jew and Christian alike and that until we take the gloves off and fight with conviction will we conquer this evil.

Sign me up to nuke Mecca, Medina, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Jordan, etc.

I hate them all, and I never did before, but reality is reality and it is time to wake up.

549 numbersjoc  Wed, May 12, 2004 8:23:32am

the video of nick berg, will show the world just how sick , the islamic government sponserd chop chop parties and mutulations of humans really is. in America we call people who mutulate Phsycopates.

550 mean  Wed, May 12, 2004 8:44:08am

It seems to me that these people are born and raised to be killers! I say we bomb them all and let them GLOW a while!

551 byebyeplanet  Wed, May 12, 2004 8:47:48am

You who watched the murder of Nick Berg have seen with your own eyes true demonic activity on video stepping right on out of the spiritual realm and into your living rooms. These creatures are completely full of Satan...they are his spawned demons from hell that delight in fear, mutilation, and death. This is their bright and shining moment because they have nothing to offer the world but the death and destruction of the moment. They live only to kill, preying upon the weak, killing the innocent. Believe it, their evil will continue to grow until they have forced the west to unleash the fires of nuclear hell upon them. Sadly these fires will spill out on innocent Muslims too.

It is clear to see that their plan is to turn Christian against Muslim on a world-wide scale. It is immaterial to them who wins or loses because their interest lies in killing as many people as they can, Jew, Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, atheist, straight, homosexual, assexual, bisexual, non-sexual, woman, man, child, American, Syrian, Jordanian, Yemeni, Iraqi, French, Polish, the color of your robe just ain't that important as long it is blood red in the end.

Muslims the world over should work to stop this anti-god behaviour before they too are consumed by the fiery, vengeful rage of the west. If you don't think it already is a war you are wrong. They are making war against Muslims too! Trying to get the world to hate you for their evil. Wake up! Condoning this behavior with silence is leading the world to complete lawlessness and eventually annihilation.

I say Muslims should work harder because these demons are using Islam to turn the world against you and in the end Muslims unfortunately will suffer the most when the west has had enough and compassion and patience are gone.

552 Bleeding heart conservative  Wed, May 12, 2004 8:51:35am

J, if you're right then there would be no reason to have fought Iraqi Freedom the way we did. We were careful with JDAMs to avoid civilian casualties. If we only wanted to destroy Saddam's facilities we would have just bombed without regard to civilain deaths like Clinton did in 1998. Our way, we removed the despot and provide a democracy for people like
Omar, Ays, Zeyad, Ali, the Iraqi bloggers.

They are not all like HAMAS. Yes, there are millions of Islmaists that are our mortal enemies: I want them dead. But for every six or seven Zarqawis/Arafats, there is a Kanan Makiya, a Fareed Zakaria, a Walid Phares, a Shoebat, a Barham Salih and Amir Taheri. God is the only just judge, and one day he will separate the wheat from the chaff, the sheep from the goats. We as humans do not have the right to annihinlate an entire nation: we do of course have a right to kill anyone that means us harm.

553 Cody  Wed, May 12, 2004 9:04:39am

Saw the video. Ghastly. So it is true, Mohammed was the first terrorist.

I agree with many of the thoughts here.

1) Eject every single Arab, Muslim, Jew, Israeli, and Black from the U.S.
2) If an airline flys into any Middle Eastern country, African country, or Islamic country (if 1% or more of that countries population is Muslim) they cannot land in the U.S.

3) Any country that allows any of the above airlines to land in their country cannot fly into the U.S.

4) Same for mariner traffic.

5) The U.S. will not do business with any country that has had its air carrier access denied for the above reasons.

Cody

554 jo jo  Wed, May 12, 2004 9:08:55am

true enough dude. Islamofashits are turning Islam into a very nasty thing. I think the world will get enough and start "raging" against Islam with corresponding high body count. Sad, very sad that so many will have to die.

555 William™  Wed, May 12, 2004 9:09:48am
Sadly, Andrew Sullivan just took another giant leap backwards

Sullivan is too much of a flake for me; stopped reading him long ago.

His self immolation regarding the 'prison scandal' was another recent flake out.
 

556 Thom™  Wed, May 12, 2004 9:28:03am

#553 Cody

FOAD.

557 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 12, 2004 9:37:19am

#460 George:

Lawrence of Arabia (the man and especially the movie) = part of the reason we're in this mess.

He was in love with his "noble savages" and the movie popularized the notion of the Arabs as a downtrodden but exalted race of warriors.

The whole L. of A. legend is pernicious nonsense.

558 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 12, 2004 9:40:14am

Sorry that should have been #410!

559 khobar  Wed, May 12, 2004 9:41:06am

I agree with the one dude above who said, "get 'em by the balls". Look aroung you dumbass liberals you piss in your panties, anti-war pussies. You are all piles of chicken shit wearing clothes. What got you the freedom to be such pussy wimps is the courage and blood of US patriotic citizens and soldiers who have been kicking ass since 1941. The shitforbrainsislamopussies have got you running scared. Wooo, scared of the boogie man in the black mask. You ever wonder why they wear masks? Scared of us finding out who they are is why!

We have so many advantages why should we shit them away now. We have spent 60 years since WWII working hard to get where we are so don't tell me we should throw that all away to people who sit around jhobless all day, drinking tea, protesting something, wearing dhiapers on their heads and black masks on their faces.

It is time to create a conflagration in the entire middle east so we can get this over with while we still have a major advantage over the enemy. I say crush ALL armies in the middle east, destroy their airports and harbors and let them hack away at each other for the next 100 years Shia blaming Sunni and Sunni blaming Shia, hell they can't even get along with each other...then we do it all over again.K.I.S.S. keep in stoneage stupid

Oh my gosh...we might offend somebody? Might my arse, we will offend someone. I'm taling about being extremely offensive! The US political-military system has made a grave mistake trying to cater to the US media, the UN, and the Eurowussyallies. Somehow they got the idea that war can be so clean and bloodless and no one needs to get hurt. Let me say this loudly and clearly, BULLSHIT!

War must be waged ruthlessly, completely annihilating your enemy, destroying them, their infrastructure, and their will to resist. They must be killed and humbled in massive numbers so that the peace can be won. War must be so horrible that no one will ever want to fight against you. The body and spirit must be crushed. War must be horrible and massive, not eaked out in tiny, news-bite sizes designed to desensitize. Enough ranting, falling on deaf ears anyway...

The US is being laughed at in the entire middle east.

560 hogana  Wed, May 12, 2004 10:43:14am

Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi is a coward of the lowest order.

His movement is that of cowardly dogs that inhabit the vacant streets of religous conviction.

Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi hides his face behind a mask. He can't even muster the courage to show his face or the faces of his cowardly followers as they perform their vile deeds. And all while hailing the name of God. If your God condones these actions then he is as big a fraud and coward as Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi.

Come face your destiny Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi. I am the fear that haunts you in your dreams. I am truth and honor, and you will pay my price.

561 buckshot  Wed, May 12, 2004 10:55:33am

As a 11yr USAF Vet, The ONLY solution is the old AIRBORNE Moto! KILL 'EM ALL LET GOD SORT 'EM OUT!!

562 Beefy  Wed, May 12, 2004 12:23:38pm

Can't you people see...these are not the actions of all muslims. When a KKK memeber brutally kills a black man in the name of God do you jump on every Christian?

563 DP111  Wed, May 12, 2004 12:23:57pm

544 SA

The only option I can see is to isolate muslims and arabs in their own countries. They have no means of attacking us unless we let them into our countries; so don't let them in. And kick out the ones who aren't citizens

So I have been saying for a long time now. A complete separation of dar al islam and dar al hrab.
Muslims fervently believe that there is dar al islam. Well they can go there and leave us alone. Leave us to get on with trying to find a cure for cancer, improving the quality of life, explore space etc instead of wasting lives, our time and resources on these medieval tribes from the desert.

564 DP111  Wed, May 12, 2004 12:51:03pm

554 jo jo

Somehow they got the idea that war can be so clean and bloodless and no one needs to get hurt. Let me say this loudly and clearly, BULLSHIT!

Agreed. That is what I've been arguing atleast a year before the invasion of Iraq. We've become so PCfied that we are unable to wage war as it should be waged. The consequence is grief and prolonged agony for all, us and the Iraqis.

Is something wrong with coalition commanders and US ones in particular? I just ask. In the short Iraq war, to my utter dismay, they were crowing that their smart weapons would take out the CCC centres and leave the population and even ordinary soldiers unharmed. General after general appeared on TV lauding that the US had opened a new era in warfare. And here me, an ordinary civvy thinking, have they lost their collective minds? The nature of war has never changed. It is to make the enemy so sick of death that he will accept occupation as a boon. War is not about destroying the enemy's CCC centres. It is destroy his will to fight. And here I do not mean the regular soldiers. They are merely the sharp edge. It is the national will of the group that has to be broken.

Why do you think Churchill and Harris were adament that Germany feel the gentle touch of 1000 Lancaster bomber raids on civilian towns? He knew that it was a necessary precursor to achieve long lasting peace. And who am I to argue with Churchill. Subsequent events have proved him right.

Never enter a war unless you intend to fight it properly. It would have been far better to expend the energy fighting the enemy within, instead of wasting hundreds of billions of dollars on a group of people who show no gratitude for liberation from Saddam ( they regard it anyway as the will of allah).

565 Stinky  Wed, May 12, 2004 1:26:23pm

Re 562:

Can't you people see...these are not the actions of all muslims. When a KKK memeber brutally kills a black man in the name of God do you jump on every Christian?

*sigh*...when a KKK kills a black man, he cannot quote ANYTHING from Jesus suggesting that what he is doing is a holy deed. When a Christian slaughters an *innocent* person like a pig, he is being the very OPPOSITE of Christ.

When a Muslim kills a non-believer, he is FULLFILLING numerous jihad commandments in his Koran. The murderers in that video quoted the Koran at least twice regarding the duty of Muslims to kill non-believers, "Kill them wherever they are"...The Koran doesn't discern between bad Christians and good Christians, murderer Jews and humanitarian Jews... ALL Jews and Christians regardless of individual moral quality are open to being decapitated.

That is the difference, and if you do not understand this difference between "Christian" atrocities and Muslim atrocities, than that says more about your irrationality and ignorance of religious texts than it does about anyone else who could possibly exist.

566 elliot[deleted]  Wed, May 12, 2004 2:22:25pm
567 Lucy Causton  Wed, May 12, 2004 2:33:30pm

Wow, all this fuss about a cheaply faked prank video. What a bunch of pussies!

Worried that China might out-bid you for all that oil?

8:o)

The Lucy.

568 Thom™  Wed, May 12, 2004 2:35:03pm
Internet Haganah has removed the video, after being subjected to denial of service attacks. Someone doesn’t want the US to see this video.

Who? Why? Isn't the point for Americans to see it?

Unless, of course, the DOS attacks were from ... Americans?

I'm half tempted to put the video on the site I made for lgf purposes just to see what the hell happens ...

569 Ann  Wed, May 12, 2004 2:35:08pm

564 DP111:

a group of people who show no gratitude for liberation from Saddam ( they regard it anyway as the will of allah).

Profound statement.

Since islam is all about limiting individual decisions, is it possible that the muslim culture in Iraq can now make decisions?

570 FOUR_HORSEMEN4[deleted]  Wed, May 12, 2004 2:48:03pm
571 Ann  Wed, May 12, 2004 2:50:21pm

#570:

Ahhh. You did not read the LGF pledge.

How can you see the screen with your hood on?

572 RightIsRight  Wed, May 12, 2004 2:59:52pm

#570

Eloquently put.

Who let Al Franken in here?

573 Right Wing Conspirator  Wed, May 12, 2004 3:06:28pm

#570

Cool. You found the Caps-Lock key. That gets your intellectual arguement across so much better. Now, can you slow it down so I can understand what it is you are trying to say? Thank you.

574 Ann  Wed, May 12, 2004 3:06:44pm

#570:

16 minutes. Yes, you third world people are slow.

Tap, tap, tap, tap.

Stupid, too.

Tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, yawn, tap, tap, tap,

575 American Pride  Wed, May 12, 2004 3:08:52pm

All I can say to anyone who doesn't like this country and what it stands for can do us all a favor and get the hell out and leave. Real cool of you to talk shit about the U.S. while sitting in front of your computer in your warm cozy house. Go back to your piece of shit third world country with your trash filled streets and no food and running water and see how you feel about America then. Assholes.

576 Right Wing Conspirator  Wed, May 12, 2004 3:10:47pm

#570

FREE MUMIA !!!

577 Tiburon  Wed, May 12, 2004 3:13:24pm

Evidently, #570 feels that the Gov should be responsible, even for his own behaviour. And he'll persist until someone in Authority notices him...


Same old, same old.

578 zulubaby  Wed, May 12, 2004 3:13:50pm
579 Nick  Wed, May 12, 2004 3:14:11pm

I have some to say of this, I am not American but Canadian and I can give you for the one who can appreciate and not flame point of view from others. September 11, was terrible.. honestly, I was traveling in PA, USA at the time.. and as a Canadian I was treated like a freaking terrorist trying to return to Canada (come on..)

The Prison in Iraq was against all honor and respect towards human, but in American hands, it will be erase, ignore and forgotten.
It goes against the Gevena Convention.. but The U.S.A "freedom figthers" for some reasons do not have to follow it.. They can justify their reasons and they can give excuses (lame). (put it on Canadian ground, and the USA would destroy our Nation of shame and media.)

The beheading was also terrible, and is no exemple on what to do or not to do. It should not be left alone and I am one who gives my life to protect citizens.

I am a Military man, and I have been in Iraq, but for what cause ? The war against terrorism indeed, but is forcing male who practice a religion that is not incoorperated in our culture, into force homosexual contact alright ??

Young Canadian soldiers were killed from American Fire (excuses excuses again) the matter was ligthy taken.. and ignored with time. (twist the story around, Make it Canadian fireing on American and we would reciece US nukes in no time)

I do not dislike American nor have anything against it's causes, But I believe for the U.S.A to survive the nation will have to look into their own culture and ways of life before launching wars that affect in negative effect other nations and country around the world.

The American modo is Freedom.. freedom here.. freedom there.. Do you guys even have freedom within your own borders ? Gay couple aren't allowed to join your military forces if they reveal their true nature. They aren't respected as normal human being (and for the one asking the question, Gay citizen in Canada have same rights in both our nation and military, we aren't at the marriage part yet.. but in the last 5 years we have done incredible progress.) Fix your problem first, then fix the world with the help of others and the ways we have once agreed to free the world.. and not your own.

Destroying a nation to rebuild it in the American ways will not work (Look at South Korea still in need of a constent US Fleet since the 1960's). Assisting them may have worked.. but it is not the task that has been done by the American Gouverment sadly.

They have went against the United Nations. If thing turn bad.. who will the United State turn to ? A country that does not fully supply itselt. The US are in need of importation

People are getting angry, and annoyed by all this. I am very sorry for your lost.. but respect the lost of other nations in this war against terrorism. Stop looking only within the U.S.A and start opening your eyes to the world, I am not talking to the American Population, but to some people in general who do not see farther then your borders.

*get ready for major flamming*
This is only my opinion, and I wish you respect it.
Nick

580 Ann  Wed, May 12, 2004 3:16:47pm

#576:

Hi! Prisoners have internet access?

What is this world coming to?

581 Right Wing Conspirator  Wed, May 12, 2004 3:23:56pm

#579 Nick

First off, nice nic Nick.

I am a Military man

Bullshit.

582 Ann  Wed, May 12, 2004 3:28:22pm

#579:

to some people in general who do not see farther then your borders.

1) Everyone wants to be within our borders.
2) Everyone likes it here.
3) Outside of our borders is bad.
4) If you do not agree with 1-3. Leave. We do not hold people here against their will.
5) We would like everyone in the world to be as happy as we are.

583 Right Wing Conspirator  Wed, May 12, 2004 3:31:33pm

#579 Nick

Do you guys even have freedom within your own borders ? Gay couple aren't allowed to join your military forces if they reveal their true nature.

OK. So we don't have freedom in our own country, according to you.

Gay citizen in Canada have same rights in both our nation and military, we aren't at the marriage part yet.. but in the last 5 years we have done incredible progress.)

D'oh. Neither do you according to your standards.

Destroying a nation to rebuild it in the American ways will not work (Look at South Korea still in need of a constent US Fleet since the 1960's).

Yep, let it fall to the greatness of North Korea. Such values, such morality.

And last but definitely not least:

They have went against the United Nations.

Fu*k fu*k fu*k fu*k fu*k fu*k fu*k fu*k fu*k fu*k fu*k fu*k fu*k fu*k fu*k fu*k fu*k the UN !!!

584 emo  Wed, May 12, 2004 3:32:38pm

#531 The Troll

Is this troll correct that Allah is the Arabic word for God, with no other connotations? I ask because I've read that Allah was formerly the name of a pagan moon god.

This was in the days before some degenerate thought that it'd be a good wheeze to steal that monotheism idea and use it to raise an army of barbaric scum sucking pigs to commit atrocities and whine about victimhood.

I meant to follow up with a look into the '99 names' issue, but frankly Islam is such a risible, pathetic and repugnant religion I haven't had the stomach. Should I go to allahpundit.com and ask?

585 AntiArab[deleted]  Wed, May 12, 2004 3:38:17pm
586 J  Wed, May 12, 2004 3:43:46pm

I have got a solution to this mess. Lets spray the whole middle east with pig juice. Any muslim who comes in contact with pig is denied heaven and of course no 72 virgins. Lets ruin their plan to enter heaven.

Not that these asshats would get there anyways. G-d does not like murderers and vermin to be by his(her) side.

587 Homer  Wed, May 12, 2004 3:45:38pm

The man who was killed did not deserve to die in Iraq. It is sad to see that another blunder by the president has cost yet another casualty. Although our troops are fighting for us, that does not justify their actions to torture Iraqi prisoners. The mere fact that the government knew about THAT and combining it with this makes me believe that Bush has to take some blame. As for those who think America sucks... FUCK YOU. I would also like to add that although this was a tragedy, this is not the only innocent guy that died. So pay your respects to the other brave men and women that have died for us.

588 Cam  Wed, May 12, 2004 3:53:31pm

Nick:

I am a Canadian.

You are a twat

589 Cody  Wed, May 12, 2004 3:57:15pm

#586

Yea, we should have cut off their food supply then started dropping cans of SPAM when the things began.

Cody

Someone did say something interesting...

Armed un-uniformed individuals should be shot dead ASAP.

590 Ann  Wed, May 12, 2004 3:57:31pm

#587:

How do you know that they were Iraqis?

What if these prisoners were madrassa babies sent from Pakistan, Afganistan, Saudi, Yemen, blah, blah,blah?

Why does this humiliation continue to upset you? You call it torture. Why?

Would you rather be naked with a hood on, or have your throat slit to where your head can be triumphantly shown yards away from your neck?

591 US Citizen  Wed, May 12, 2004 4:08:15pm

Mark: "The only option I can see is to isolate muslims and arabs in their own countries. They have no means of attacking us unless we let them into our countries; so don't let them in. And kick out the ones who aren't citizens."

Then why are non-Muslim troops there at all? If you are all *so* upset by this, then why not encourage the troops to get the hell out of Muslim lands?

Most of you people on this forum are seriously ignorant and racist.

"Iraqi Freedom?" You call it freedom yet kill hundreds of Muslims day and night. And you get upset because one non-Muslim died? What about the *thousands* of Muslim civilians, women, children, etc... who are being killed for nothing? Where's the outcry for them?

If you are outraged at the death of non-Muslims in Muslim populated regions, then leave! Stop trying to invade, conquer, and exploit Muslims and thier lands. Maybe then, they'll stop killing the invaders.

Don't claim to be "civilized" or "enlightened" and at the same time propogate racist attitudes like "We should kill them all." They have a right to defend their homes, family, and peoples.

Would you feel any different if a foreign army invaded your homeland?

592 Charles  Wed, May 12, 2004 4:09:54pm

^^^ Los Angeles ^^^

593 Thom™  Wed, May 12, 2004 4:17:37pm

#584 emo

No, the troll is not correct. This is a lie perpetuated by mohammedans (wittingly or unwittingly) to fool the ignorant into believing that mohammedanism is anything other than a pagan cult of personality.

594 Thom™  Wed, May 12, 2004 4:20:53pm

Charles -

Don't forget this gem:

#553 Cody 5/12/2004 11:04AM PST

...

I agree with many of the thoughts here.

1) Eject every single ...

595 Ann  Wed, May 12, 2004 4:21:51pm

#591:

Would you feel any different if a foreign army invaded your homeland?

This is the difference between me and you. My county, my state, my town will never be invaded. We the people will not let it happen.

By the way - lose the worry over muslims. It's all just law-abiding people here in your adopted USA. Via LA.

We don't like division. You obviously do.

596 US Citizen  Wed, May 12, 2004 4:22:15pm

#575: "All I can say to anyone who doesn't like this country and what it stands for can do us all a favor and get the hell out and leave. Real cool of you to talk shit about the U.S. while sitting in front of your computer in your warm cozy house."

And what happened to Freedom of speech? Does that only apply to people who agree with you? Or does it only apply to white people? Or only to Christians?

597 Outrage  Wed, May 12, 2004 4:24:37pm

Im outrage!!! what they did was very inhumane. people need to see the video. We need to respond to this inhumane terrorism NOW!!! God Bless America.

598 Cam  Wed, May 12, 2004 4:28:44pm

#596:

"And what happened to Freedom of speech? Does that only apply to people who agree with you? Or does it only apply to white people? Or only to Christians? "

It applies to all. The point is not freedom of speech, the point is comfort. When LLL's yammer on about how great other cultures are, and how the US is the Great Satan, while enjoying all the benefits of living in the bowels of the aforementioned Satan, it begs the question:

"WTF are you doing here? I understand Iran and Bangladesh are not exactly flooded with people trying to get in."

599 american  Wed, May 12, 2004 4:37:23pm

I didnt see the death of nick, thank god lets all say a prayer for his family and remember God has the final say in the end.

600 Ann  Wed, May 12, 2004 4:38:46pm

#597:

How can you see the screen with your hood on?

What third world county are you typing from?

Or are you the result of public schools?

601 US Citizen  Wed, May 12, 2004 4:41:34pm

Ann #590: "Why does this humiliation continue to upset you? You call it torture. Why?
Would you rather be naked with a hood on, or have your throat slit to where your head can be triumphantly shown yards away from your neck?"

Actually, many people *would* choose a swift death over rape, humiliation, and random beatings. And why are you condoning such actions? Do they not go against many principles in the US Constitution?

I've read the Taguba report on the prison abuses. In it, he details that the majority of detainees were *wrongfully* incarcerated. So most of these abuses are being conducted on people innocent of criminal charges.

Oh, but then I guess *your* concept of freedom only applies to your race, religion, etc... right? We need not show the same human rights to Muslims when we *invade* their countries right?

Oh and for the record, and sorry to disappoint all the racists on this forum, but in Islam, *anyone* can be a Muslim regardless of race.

602 Cam  Wed, May 12, 2004 4:47:40pm

#601:

Oh, well put. I assume by your last bit that you believe Christianity, Buddhism, etc. only allow converts of a certain shade. Yes, of course, that's why Catholocism is growing fastest in Africa.

Incidentally, IIRC, Zoroastrianism is the only religion into which you must be born.

603 Ann  Wed, May 12, 2004 4:53:06pm

#601:

Oh, but then I guess *your* concept of freedom only applies to your race, religion, etc... right? We need not show the same human rights to Muslims when we *invade* their countries right?

Um. Take control of your life, muslim. You do not have to be miserable.

Life is meant to be full of options. You have the right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.

That is why we must force happiness down your stupid, ignorent throat.

604 US Citizen  Wed, May 12, 2004 4:54:13pm

"564 DP111: a group of people who show no gratitude for liberation from Saddam ( they regard it anyway as the will of allah)."

Gratitude for what!? It was the American CIA that got Saddam into power in the first place! And I saw *that* story on the 10:00 News.

Ann: "Profound statement. Since islam is all about limiting individual decisions, is it possible that the muslim culture in Iraq can now make decisions?"

You are obviously ignorant and misinformed regarding Islam.

605 Cam  Wed, May 12, 2004 4:58:45pm

#604 US Citizen:

"Ann: "Profound statement. Since islam is all about limiting individual decisions, is it possible that the muslim culture in Iraq can now make decisions?"

You are obviously ignorant and misinformed regarding Islam. "

From Ask the Imam:

"I belong to a fairly moderate income group. Recently my eldestdaughter attained the age of puberty. This development has placed me in agreat predicament. I was quite affected recently by a lecture I heard on thesins of intermingling of sexes. My daughter attends a public school whereshe is obviously involved in this. While it might appear to be easy to justremove her from school, I have to also consider her future. She definitelyrequires a career in order to make her financially self-sufficient in thesetimes of great economic strife. What should I do under these circumstances?

Answer 321 2000-08-27

View random fatwa

Tell a friend

Printable Copy

Search Q & A's

View Q & A's

Ask a Question

Almighty Allah Taála says in the Holy Qurãn 'And (women) stay in
your homes and don't display yourselves like the practice of the first
Jaahiliyya (pre-Islamic era)'. (Qurãn 33:33)

Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) said, 'A woman is an object of
concealment. When she comes out; the Shaitaan accompanies her'. (Mishkãt)

The above quotations clearly indicate that the place of a woman is at home.
When she emerges out of the house, she becomes the tool of the Shaitaan to
spread mischief and corruption. In these modern times, there is a worldwide
campaign on recognition of women's rights, according to the democratic
ideology which includes equality between men and women in earning, rank and
position. Such a position for women in society breathes corruption and
mischief. And the ghastly consequences such a position has already caused
are clear as day-light for all those of true intelligence.

The harms of giving your daughter 'secular education' under the existing
conditions is greater than the benefits. It is not permissible to risk the
honour of your daughter at the expense of securing her economic future.
Looking at the dangers and harms in schools, even the greatest worldly need
cannot justify the reason for sending your daughter to school.

The sustenance of every individual is the responsibility of Allãh: 'There is
not a single creature on earth except that Allãh Taála has taken the
responsibility of its sustenance'. (Qurãn 11:6)

The Fuqahaa have explained that firstly the father has to support his
daughter until marriage. Upon marriage, the husband has to support her. If
the husband dies or divorces her, and she has elderly working sons, it is
their responsibility to support her. If she does not have sons, then the
father will have to support her again. If he is not in a position to support
her then, her brothers and relatives should support her. Islam has laid down
principles to support a woman in every turn of her life. If any of the above
does not materialize, she can even support herself by maintaining her honour
and dignity by doing something from indoors. She may do cooking, sewing,
baking, etc. and sell. There are many avenues of income. The secular form of
education is not the only way of earning an income. How many secular
graduates are penniless due to unemployment and how many secularly
uneducated women have regular income through private services?

Your concern should be to give your daughter good Islamic education, teach
her to be a loyal wife and responsible mother. Teach her the life of
simplicity and you may teach her some profession like sewing, etc. could
help her during a financial crisis.

And Allah Knows Best.

Mufti Ebrahim Desai"

Yep, all kinds of choices.

606 US Citizen  Wed, May 12, 2004 5:02:19pm

"#601: Oh, well put. I assume by your last bit that you believe Christianity, Buddhism, etc. only allow converts of a certain shade."

Not at all. That comment was in response to many earlier threads where people were attributing Arabs or Iraqis with Islam. I'm just saying that not all Arabs (or Iraqis) are necessarily muslim, and not all muslims are Arab. Thats all.

607 Ann  Wed, May 12, 2004 5:11:11pm

#605:

Thank you Cam!

As I love my job in the DC Virginia suburbs, have a husband that is by best friend, enjoy our cats, love the peaceful life that I have, and am armed to defend this great life, I must go to sleep. Peacefully.

I am proud to sleep knowing that you got my back.

See you folks in the morning.

608 Cam  Wed, May 12, 2004 5:13:45pm

'Night Ann

609 Jacko  Wed, May 12, 2004 5:42:08pm

Our way of life is changing far too much. To give them another chance to rebuild, what they have been destroying since time began in the name of there gods.
Its us or them there is no middle ground nature proves to us only the strong can survive.
Call the troops home and wipe one of there countries off the face of the earth. Kill them all & let god sort it out. Lets start a petition.

610 Chad  Wed, May 12, 2004 6:14:29pm

I'm trying to find the video any help.

611 geezer  Wed, May 12, 2004 6:17:03pm

the Droll Troll opines as to the old saying.-When in Rome do as the Romans do- lets have all US prison guards convert to islaam and then give up the soft porn torture so abhorrent to the ME and take up the accepted method - decapitation. although they would not wear masks or attack from the back which would be critized as unacceptabe in the ME code of manhood.

612 Chris  Wed, May 12, 2004 6:21:05pm

I can't seem to find the video...can someone email it to me. I'm pissed already...

613 Don  Wed, May 12, 2004 6:26:01pm

Hopefully, Nick Berg will not have died in vain - that video might be just what it takes to wake up the nitwit liberals.

614 Sara  Wed, May 12, 2004 6:45:28pm

I was going to see the video, however after reading the description, i dont think i could honestly handle it.
thank you for the prewarning.

615 Jim C.  Wed, May 12, 2004 6:50:06pm

The video is being posted repeatedly on the newsgroup alt.binaries.pictures.grotesque.

616 US Citizen  Wed, May 12, 2004 7:20:36pm

"# 605 Cam: Yep, all kinds of Choices."

Man, I don't know about this "Ask the Imam" business, but you can hardly use that one reply as an effective guage for an entire religion (laugh). Especially since its wrong and sounds more like an attempt by an enemy of Islam to distort the religion.

I can tell you that Ayat from the Quran he quotes from is taken out of context and misquoted. If you read the prior ayat (line) in the Quran, you will learn that this quote is not reffering to *all* women. It refers to the wives of the Prophet (PBUH).

The Prophets wives were not like ordinary women, they had a special position and special responsibilities. The quoted line actually refers to the fact that they were to be *safe-guarded* from harm on account of their special position. This is not implying that they were to be oppressed in any manner. Furthermore, this quote is *not* a generalization to be applied to all women.

Islam teaches equality amongst both genders and all races. The Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) has stated: The best of believers are those who are best to their wives and families. Let no Muslim man entertain any bad feeling against a Muslim woman. If he should dislike one quality in her, he will find another that is pleasing.

women are portrayed positively in the Qur'an and the Hadith (sayings of the Prophet Muhammad). The Qur'an is the only book of world Scripture in which women are frequently referred to alongside men, and both are described as being friends and partners in faith.

617 mike  Wed, May 12, 2004 7:20:48pm

having trouble with the links...use Kazaa...or kazza lite...If you have broad band you'll be able to download in a matter of moments and it's the entire video

618 Someone Other Than YOU  Wed, May 12, 2004 7:30:57pm

You people are as dangerous as your Great Leader. This country as gone stark, raving mad and I think it is on the basis of two things:

1. Ignorance
2. Ignorance.

619 ajb  Wed, May 12, 2004 7:35:54pm

Frankly, what took place in that video is nothing compared to what would happen if someone like that and I met in real life.

620 J.D.  Wed, May 12, 2004 7:38:37pm

Charles, do we already 'know' ^^^that^^^ one?

621 US Citizen  Wed, May 12, 2004 7:41:22pm

"# 609 Jacko: Our way of life is changing far too much. To give them another chance to rebuild, what they have been destroying since time began in the name of there gods."

Only one god. Not "gods" (plural). Thats kind of an important point in Islam.

"Its us or them there is no middle ground nature proves to us only the strong can survive.
Call the troops home and wipe one of there countries off the face of the earth. Kill them all & let god sort it out. Lets start a petition."

How is someone halfway around the world a threat to your way of life? Is your way of life so flawed and easily threatened that the mere hint of Islam threatens it? Can your way of life not compare to other ways of life?

Anyway, your concept of freedom leaves a bit to be desired. You wish to "Kill them all & let god sort them out?" Why? For no other reason than the fact that they are Muslim? I thought America was all about Freedom? And I'm pretty sure I read something about "Freedom of Religion" in the Constitution somewhere? Don't people in other countries also have this freedom? Or should they be killed simply because of their beleifs? That sounds more like "ethnic cleansing" than "Freedom" to me. But then you guys are the experts on that right?

For that matter... How did the situation in Iraq become about Religion? I thought the original point of sending troops to Iraq was to "liberate" it from Saddam? Whats all this anti-Islamic rhetoric got to do with that goal? Do you beleive that most of these Iraqis are fighting for religion? Or are they just plain fighting for survival?

After all the typical Western notion of "liberation" seems to involve killing, humiliating, and disrespecting as many natives as possible. Let us not forget a popular quote from an American soldier of the Vietnam war era -"We had to destroy it to save it." He was of course reffering to the slaughter of a Vietnamese village.

Not that I'm Iraqi or anything, but it is rather sad to see so many Muslims losing their lives for such little reason. But then, it seems like many Westerners don't even see them as people. Since they have a different culture, religion, and racial features.

622 US Citizen  Wed, May 12, 2004 8:06:29pm

# 611 Geezer: "lets have all US prison guards convert to islaam and then give up the soft porn torture so abhorrent to the ME and take up the accepted method - decapitation. "

Ya that actually wouldn't work. Because what happened to Nick Berg is quite wrong by Islamic standards. The problem is that because of the actions and abuses of coalition forces over there, many muslims equate a level of legitimacy (something akin to "revenge") to such attrocities. None of this of course would be occuring if the west didn't meddle in ME affairs in the first place. Saddam would never have gotten into power in the first place.

623 postman  Wed, May 12, 2004 8:10:39pm

and you guys were worrie about hispanics?? they are harmless people, muslims are sick bastards, I agree, is time for the big bomb, and move on again.

624 Justin R Mugge  Wed, May 12, 2004 8:13:40pm

I am going to post a website that I will publish on this site. If Bush or the liberals can not do what's needed to be done due to the fact they need two terms in office then let's band together. More to come. This is horrific. Let's do something about it.

625 Becky  Wed, May 12, 2004 8:18:04pm

In hearing about Nick Berg's beheading at work, I have to say that my first thoughts were sadness, second thoughts were horror and third thoughts were anger. I, like most Americans, I think, have been pretty desensitized to violent images, however hearing of this sad, cruel, evil (horrible descriptive words could go on forever) death of this innocent man, I couldn't properly digest it, not that anyone can, especially, God Bless, his family. I found myself wanting to watch the video. People will say that it's sick for us to want to see it. But, for me, it's almost like I wanted to be there with him if that makes any sense. He was alone and went through this awful terror, and if someone could do this to him, it's like you want to be a witness to its awfulness, just to say I saw what they did to you. In just hearing someone tell you about it, leaves you wanting to know the awful truth for yourself, feel it's disturbing emotions for yourself. I don't think in any way wanting to see this video is anything sick. I think it's a society wanting to remind itself that they are human and compassionate, and make some sense out of something that makes no sense. This war has really warped my sense of humanity in many ways, starting with Sep 11. But, I still cling to my belief that people are generally good. There are many monsters in this world as that horrible video depicts, I'm being a bit hypocritical, because I couldn't get through the video, the stills told the same story and it was all I could bear. I suggest if you're on the fence whether you want to view it or not, and you're disturbed by grusome violence for quite some time, like I am, view the pictures first, then decide. Since the war started I had started to get a bit squimish at the other countries views on us, how it seems that everyone hates us now, people's egos getting in the way of what is right and wrong, if this war was the right thing to do, I don't think anyone knows if it is or was or whatever. But this act reaffirms for me that WE ARE THE GOOD GUYS. It reaffirms for me that there are horrible things going on in Iraq and whatever anyone will say our reasons for going to war with them are, there needs to be some control over what human injustices they are allowed to inflict there. Whether it was our place or not to be the one to put things in control, I don't know. I pray that someone or something does, though. This murder terrifies me further for all of my friends in Iraq, and even to the people who seem to be unaffected by this war and think not thinking about it until it's over will protect them in some way, we have to remember that extremest group like these monsters that killed Nick Berg have crept into our country and killed thousands of us. Pray with me that this war is over soon and that some good can prevail out of it. Thanks for listening.

626 Bill H-So.California  Wed, May 12, 2004 8:33:45pm

My life has changed forever after seeing this video. After the shock comes serious anger. Then sadness sets in. Its mind boggling what humans a capable of.

and calling these cowards human is a stretch i know...

My love goes out to anyone connected to Mr. Berg

And my a barrage of artillery rounds find the beds of these men in the video. And leave nothing behind but a smoking crater and a dead pig to lye in the spot they die!

627 annon  Wed, May 12, 2004 9:13:34pm

Great. Finally a page that expresses just exactly how I feel about this whole muslem mess. The beheading was brutal, and that is their sense of justice.
I am glad so many of you see through this be nice to the muslem's and let's learn about their culture.
It's all bullshit. And Ted Kennedy makes me sooo sick I can't even watch him on TV anymore.
The media's gone totally soft, and every American, even you call me to prayers over a loud speaker, 6 times a day muslems, should see it too.
And so sorry if I am not spelling muslem right,...I don't want to know you, learn about you, or see you on American streets.
That sound to racist for some of you? Tough. Let this slime crawl back from where they came. If Allah is so great, why not stay in your own country and cut off Arab heads?
I'm all for it boys, and girls...and I thought I would never say this, nuke 'em. As one said: Let 'em Glow in the Heat.
How's that?

628 Chris Herbert  Wed, May 12, 2004 9:38:52pm

I saw the gruesome video, which I regret watching, and my mind was filled with thoughts of anger and disgust. After watching it, I felt the need to kill every last one of those Muslims; similar to the feelings of many who posted. However, I pondered for a few moments. And came up with this conclusion: We are Americans. In the world's eyes we are seen as heros. And what good is it for us to stoop down to their (Muslims, specifically the al-Qaida members) level? We need to control ourselves and just take a minute or however much time is necessary to just relax. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that bombing the Iraqis isn't going to do much good. We will only cause more grief for the innocent Iraqis. (Afterall this war is called Operation Iraqi Freedom). This means that we will lose even more control of Iraq. Now I think the best solution that anyone can come up with is to pull the troops and every American out of the hellhole "Iraq." What good is it for our country to continue fighting this war? We will only see more deaths on both sides leading to more hatred of one another. We are in the biggest trade deficit in the history of our country and this is still increasing to this day. We are spending more than 1 billion dollars a week for this war and in Afghanistan. You may say that pulling out of Iraq is not the solution because we're leaving the Iraqis in a desolute environment. Yes, that is very true, but it cannot be helped. The Iraqis obviously do not want freedom and never asked for it (except the morons that hated Hussein now living in the U.S.). It was the same in Vietnam, we just left the poor people in ruins and in an even worse condition than before.

This is the truth of war. War is the cause of all our anger and disgust. War is never the solution unless we are attacked. You may say that we were attacked by the terrorists and that's why we are at war right now; to kill those sons of a bitches. But you know what? You have been manipulated by the media and the government. True, there are many terrorists in Iraq, but we are at war with Iraq and Saddam not terrorists. Terrorists are like a sidedish and the main course is Iraq. What is the point of this war then? I have no idea. The casualties of both sides are climbing by the hour and we are slowly finding out the truths of war (eg. abuse of the prisoners in Iraq, brutal murder of innocent Americans).

Once again I believe that we must pull out of Iraq. What good is it to stay? They obviously don't want us there. Nothing good will come out of this war. The President stated that we are liberating Iraq, but this is not possible. With groups like al-Qaida, it's simply not possible.

If you feel that I am wrong please email me at cgherb@aol.com or IM me at cgherb. I am willing to discuss this topic with any person even with different viewpoints.

629 therien  Wed, May 12, 2004 9:57:09pm

Some more fuel for the fire in re: is it Islam, the Arabs, some of both, or all of either?
SecularIslam.org takes up Pipe's allegation that it's the result of Islam, not the Qur'an
Should We Read the Koran to Understand Muslim Terrorism? A Response to Daniel Pipes

630 therien  Wed, May 12, 2004 10:18:00pm

Chris Herbert: if you "Have no idea," then maybe you should take a big 'ol helping of STFU.

By the way, you get an "F" for vague generalizations, unwarranted conclusions, and writing much better than your ability to think. Support your allegations, substantiate rather than simply "say," and if you'll pardon the term, pull your head out of your F'ing ass.

631 cryingfornick  Wed, May 12, 2004 11:15:23pm

What these people did to Nick is horrific and I believe it is only the begining of the atrocities to come. I hope this will be a wake up call to all americans, especially those too busy playing politics to realize the danger we are in. Wake up america...before it's too late!

632 cb  Wed, May 12, 2004 11:32:54pm

#327

God damn, Birdgunner! Chillingly elegant. You should be a speechwriter...

633 jla  Wed, May 12, 2004 11:34:35pm

re: Chris Hebert"s comments

Chris...you just don't get it do you???
We can't run from the terrorists. Leaving Iraq will only give them a place to grow and become more powerful. They have come to America to kill americans and you are sadly mistaken if you think they aren't coming back. They don't want to negotiate with us. They will not leave us alone if we leave Iraq. They are coming back for sure if we run from Iraq and do nothing. They want nothing from us, but to see us all dead.
Chris...get your head out of the sand!

634 Who CARES  Wed, May 12, 2004 11:42:49pm

I have read all of the comments above, and some make sense and others do not. However, I think everyone should come to realize that the world has become a kinder gentler in the past 20 years. I feel it is time to go old school on all issues from prison abuse to acts of war. We are the only global power and should remain that. But, unless our elected officials get off there duffs and do something about it, we will soon be like the EU.

My 2 cents

635 dark orchid  Wed, May 12, 2004 11:47:24pm

I agree with jbolty. Everyone needs to see this. I was able to watch without flinching beccause it's the reality of who we are dealing with.

I send my symphathies to The Berg family. No one should see their loved ones die, but especially like this. I hope other individuals who are working over there get the message however...Berg was offered an airline ticket out of the country and refused to go.

Perhaps this isn't the time for foreign civilians to roam the countryside, no matter what their intentions, whether it be business contracts or humanitarian efforts. It seems we aren't witnessing the population coming forward with open arms to thank us for all our good intentions.

dark orchid

636 dark orchid  Wed, May 12, 2004 11:50:43pm

I meant to give this link. It is the video link and it is working.

[Link: www.ogrish.com...]

Be warned...the site appears to be pornographic or some sort of "graphic," but the link and the video works. It's your choice.

dark orchid

637 Anon  Thu, May 13, 2004 12:46:34am

How can these people take an innocent man's life and claim it in the name of their god ... Satanic is all i can think off

638 solo  Thu, May 13, 2004 1:02:04am

hang on a second, so one guy gets murdered and yes it's very horrible and no one deserves to die like that, but these comments about 'pulling the troops out and nuking the country' are just how your government want you to react. they did it cos the yanks, who under the pretence of "freeing" their country, are currently torturing & humiliating their people.

two wrongs don't make a right, and if it carries on like this there will be no one left in the world... but plenty of oil for bush and his cronies. after all, isn't that what this is all about? have you all forgotten that it was actually a guy in afghanistan who masterminded 9/11? how did the blame suddenly switch to iraq? oh yeah, oil and money. nice one, bush, your plan is working!

639 smiley  Thu, May 13, 2004 1:19:03am

guys... have you noticed the gap between the timestamp of statement reading and the actual slaughter?

comments?

640 saw it  Thu, May 13, 2004 2:33:41am

I watched the video, and although it is disturbing I felt the footage of the stoning (see link above) was much more barbaric. Being wrapped in cloth and buried up to your shoulders in a hole in the ground and having rocks thrown at your head until you're dead has got to be a truly horrific way to die.
As part of the supposedly influential international community, why can't we put a stop to these practices?

641 tina  Thu, May 13, 2004 3:41:51am
I already hate all that they stand for, and spit on their allah.

if you had any idea about religion and culture you would know that "allah" is not some god or "their god". it is the same god as in the bible, worshipped by jews, christians and muslims alike. allah simply means god. it is not a different god than americans believe in.

642 Michael  Thu, May 13, 2004 3:52:19am
Saw the video. Ghastly. So it is true, Mohammed was the first terrorist.

I agree with many of the thoughts here.

1) Eject every single Arab, Muslim, Jew, Israeli, and Black from the U.S.
2) If an airline flys into any Middle Eastern country, African country, or Islamic country (if 1% or more of that countries population is Muslim) they cannot land in the U.S.

3) Any country that allows any of the above airlines to land in their country cannot fly into the U.S.

4) Same for mariner traffic.

5) The U.S. will not do business with any country that has had its air carrier access denied for the above reasons.

Cody

Cody, that would mean each and every airline in the world, including all the US airlines.

To quote Bill Cosby on windshield wipers, "dumb guy dumb guy dumb guy"

643 Steven G.  Thu, May 13, 2004 4:06:00am

Hi, I am from Greece and I found this site while trying to read the news on the death/execution of Nick Berg. For the past two weeks (ever sice the photographs of Iraqi captives being torured by American soldiers were publicized) I've been feeling very angry and quite desperate as well. What can you and me do to change this circle of blood? Our world is not doing so well... The war in Iraq was of questionable validity (it is a proven fact by now), wheras on the other hand September 11th was a gruesome act against humanity. Torturing a human being (no matter what country he/she is from, what his religious background is) is something whch I cannot accept and understand. Treating a human being like dirt, spitting upon his dignity, brutally beating a helpless person etc... all this is shocking, just as much as the sight of an innocent civilian sitting in front of his masked executioners, not knowing what is about to happen to him, is equally nervewrecking. THis circle of hate must stop: this situation can only get worse. Violence can ONLY bring violence! Think about it this way: there is a bunch of soldiers from a foreign country coming to your country to help you get rid of your tyrrant (very simlified, this is not the true case) and together with the tyrrant (who is finally captured) THOUSANDS of innocent people get killed (either accidentally, either on purpose). If a member of my family was killed by a foreign soldier, my house blasted to rubble, or I was wrongly captured as a suspected terrorist and then let to go, later on I WOULD BE REALLY PISSED OFF! I really dont know what I would stand for, if that was the case. I havent experienced anything close to that, so I really dont know. What I really cant understand though is this general hatred which is unleashed by both sides. One thing we must understand is that the majority of people are simple and Muslims ARE NOT BROUGHT UP WITH AN ANTI-AMERICAN SENTIMENT. In the place of Nick Berg I would have liked to seen the bigshot who SENT him to work in Iraq (just look at what is going on there with the hostages), or the Washington warpigs who think they can do anything they wish, justifying their actions as "war on terrorism". On the other hand, I would also like to have seen Saddam and his sick sons being tortured by Iraqi people, those Iraqies who had lived under a cloack of fear and terror for decades, during the Saddam era. That kind of torture I could probably handle...
Thanks for your time.

644 jesus[deleted]  Thu, May 13, 2004 4:07:42am
645 x  Thu, May 13, 2004 4:19:00am
1) Eject every single Arab, Muslim, Jew, Israeli, and Black from the U.S.


Cody: you are a racist fool. it's comments like this that incite hatred in others, and so the cycle of violence continues.

we are all human beings, we are all born equal. some of us happen to be born a different colour, or in a country that *shock* ISN'T the united states (which by the way is only a few hundred years old). that doesn't mean we are lesser beings than YOU. i bet you haven't even bothered to travel to other countries, learn another language or learn about other cultures.

trying opening your eyes and seeing others as they really are: human beings, just like you and me.

646 Dave - USA  Thu, May 13, 2004 4:23:59am

blow up the motherfuckers. drop a nuke on their [bigoted word] asses.

647 DP111  Thu, May 13, 2004 4:46:50am

604 US Citizen

a group of people who show no gratitude for liberation from Saddam ( they regard it anyway as the will of allah)."

This sort of excuse is always used, that we have no business to kick Saddam out since we put him there in the first place. Saddam came to power in a military coup. He was the most brutal of the thugs at the time and rose to tthe top as a condequence. Thats how it works in that part of the world.

At the time the US had a global security threat, the USSR and the Warsaw pact + Marxist ideology. It saw this as the supreme threat and was willing to sup with minor devils to counteract the big threat. That is real politik. The world is not an ideal place. One cannot choose friends and allies on moral grounds. We are also accused of creating bin Laden as we supported the Islamists against the USSR. Same reason.

Life is not easy. If the US could have seen the future, that supporting bin Laden would lead eventually to 9/11, then I suppose you have a point. But otherwise, your comments are based on hindsight. And you know what they say of hindsight.

648 DP111  Thu, May 13, 2004 5:02:52am

re 647

The quote should have included

a group of people who show no gratitude for liberation from Saddam ( they regard it anyway as the will of allah)."
Gratitude for what!? It was the American CIA that got Saddam into power in the first place! And I saw *that* story on the 10:00 News.

Now for the fact that most Iraqis regard their liberation from Saddam as the will of allah. I have noticed this in several other situations. In Bosnia and Kosovo, it was the same. Kuwait ditto. The thread is consistent.

Acknowledging gratitude to a worldly power, particulartly an infidel one, is philosophically difficult for a Muslim. Far better and spiritually satisfying to give credit to allah. Now no harm in that. We do so as well when we say, thank God. But we do so in the knowledge that the secular temporal power had a lot to do with it as well. Religion for most of us is confined to the private spiritual self. Separation of church and state was primarily about the separation of politics and spiritual affairs, in the mind. It is incidently only that it leads to a separation in the temporal world as well. Not so in the muslim world. There is no such separation in the minds of Muslims. That is why, it is going to be very difficult to separate mosque and state in the Arab world. That separation does not exist in the mind. Not yet anyway.

649 DP111  Thu, May 13, 2004 5:31:21am

591 US citizen

If you are outraged at the death of non-Muslims in Muslim populated regions, then leave! Stop trying to invade, conquer, and exploit Muslims and thier lands. Maybe then, they'll stop killing the invaders.

I have to agree with you there. It is a sad fact of history that Muslims are unable to live in peace with any other religious group. Wherever they have gone to, either by immigration or by conquest, strife has been the eventual outcome.
We are going to have the same problems in the West in about 30 years or so. Thus I would be happy to see a situation in which all Muslims live in dar al islam and infidels in dar la harb. That will stop the war that may soon be upon us, where tens of millions may perish. The problem is, that it is an Islamic goal to convert dar al harb to Muslim land, asap. (Read any islamic web site, even the ones based in the West). Muslims wont leave dar al harb because of this koranic injunction, even though Christians and Hindus are fleeing Muslim lands as fast as they can, because of brutal persecution in their homelands.

Most of you people on this forum are seriously ignorant and racist.

Recognition of an ideological evil, does not make a racist. That is what the purpose of LGF is. There is nothing racist about acknowledging a totalitarian threat. Most LGFers are concerned about the threat to freedom in the West. France is a matter of real concern now but a similar situation is in the making throughout the West. To accuse LGFErs of racism is calumny based on ignorance.

One of the great things about LGFers is that when they are shown that they have been wrong in some idea or statement, they are quick to apologise and do so genuinely. I hope that you realise that criticism of Islam and its totalitarian threat to Freedom is not racism.

650 Thom™  Thu, May 13, 2004 5:34:45am

#641 tina

if you had any idea about religion and culture you would know that "allah" is not some god or "their god". it is the same god as in the bible, worshipped by jews, christians and muslims alike. allah simply means god. it is not a different god than americans believe in.

That is transparently false.

651 reincarnation  Thu, May 13, 2004 5:37:57am

We need General MacArthur who would catch any muslim, shoot them and then bury the dead muslim with a pig. let's bring him back.

652 a human  Thu, May 13, 2004 6:02:11am

The complet islam is a sect !!!
We - the free and "normal" world must kill them all ... only than the world is normal!
Don´t support islams on your country. They have now the final chance to convert!

DON`T BELIVE YOUR ISLAMIC FRIENDS AND NEIGHBOURS in your country - never ... it is a sect

653 DP111  Thu, May 13, 2004 6:10:48am

650 Thom

You are right.

We can only judge a god by his/her attributes. It is not as if we could see god and make a photo-identikit of him/her. The Jewish and Christian God is one that is full of compassion and love for his children. Allah OTH is full of vengeance. The Christian God extends his grace to those who live with love in their hearts. Allah grants paradise to Jihadis who slaughter Kaffirs, with 72 virgins. He also requires continuous submission to him. Some vanity and ego. It is more a symptom of an inferiority complex that requires such continuous re-inforcement that he is "allahu akhbar", even to the extent when committing ritual slaughter of a human being.

All this is part of 'Islam being an Abrahamic religion'. Pure nonsense in concept. That does not mean that it does not have clear political goals of dividing the Judeao-Christian world. Thankfully, the West is defined by the secular state.

654 Tim  Thu, May 13, 2004 6:11:17am

people on this site are stupid pawns . i'd like to say i pity you but i don't , this was clearly staged just like 911. don't believe me ? check out these sites if you dare, though you probably won't most of you are inbred & illiterate anyway. maybe you'll have an epiphany when your sons and daughters are called to die for this banking conspiracy, oh i'm sorry, agenda.
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& remember,
support the troops!
god bless Amurka !
GLORY!
btw, on sept 12th, when all flights were prohibited over US airspace, 1 flight was allowed, a flight to evacuate about 100 or so members of or associates of the bin laden family firm. anyone who thinks there is any disagreement with any member of the bush family with any member of the bin laden family is also misled.

655 S Rowland  Thu, May 13, 2004 6:30:29am
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind! :(


-Mahatma Ghandi

656 From A Muslim  Thu, May 13, 2004 6:34:26am

This probably won't get printed, but i'll put the comment anyway
I can see how ur all trying to demonise Islam based upon this video. Try disassociating yourself from the media for a few days and read upon Islam for yourself. I'm sure the CNN and BBC is not exactly an expert on Islam.
Also, this is absolutely nothing compared to what the christian invaders did during the crusades. In any recent incident have u ever recollected where the blood in the streets ran knee high to the horses?
Even then i'm not labelling christainity as a barbaric religion. The biggest mistake that people ever make is to judge a religion by it's people. People are human and make mistakes.
It would be like me judging the entire US population based upon the actions of a handful of its troops in iraq. It's stupid!!!
When was the last time anyone of you actually read the Qur'an? Undoubtedly it's probably going to be never.
The nick berg incident is only effect people because they can actually see what's happened with their own eyes. What about the thousands of civillians killed in iraq/afghanistan that we don't get to see?
According to UNICEF, over 1.5 million civillians have died in iraq over the past 10 years as a direct result of UN sancations. You can't punish a dictator by punishing it's people. Saddam Hussain was already doing that before the sanctions.
Nick Berg could easily have stayed in the US and not gone to iraq to avoid this. But those civliians in iraq/afghanistan are in their home country, where could they go to avoid the bombs?

I'm not angry or upset with anyone who has made the comments as it's the way the media protrays these incidents. I'm just requesting the people, not to judge a religion by it's people. What better source of Islam can there be besides the Qur'an. Read it, then you can judge for yourself.

Thank you all for taking the time to read this article

657 Donald Cawdrey  Thu, May 13, 2004 6:42:34am

Anyone who kills in the name of God, has no understanding of God at all. I am sure that God looks down and in his amazement, tries to figure out where he went so wrong bringing the human race up from the monkeys we once were. If these people believe they get a ticket to heaven by dying in the quest if Jihad, then we need to expidite it as quickly as possible. These islamic nuts are going to hurt every good person who believes in the Islamic faith, and does not believe in the method these crazy people use for their means to their end. My heart goes out to every Muslim who is going to be hurt by these assholes, and the trouble they will bring on decent God loving Muslims who obey the Koran. I am truely amazed how these people do not care how they will hurt so many, just to get on the news and T.V. And sure I understand that alot of things have been done to them in the past, but their actions of revenge have lost all merit of decency to what will happen to their own people who just want peace, and a chance for a decent life for themselfs and their children. And in the same breath, until Israle comes to terms with the fact that God has not chosen them over their neighbors, this trouble will not end. you do not go around bull dozing houses of innocent people who have armed gunmen come in and use their homes as staging areas to assult someone. The Isralies need to understand this, and figure out another way of dealing with this proplem, because violence only gets more violence. Everybody wants peace, thats what is best for all our children. Until a real man or woman comes along who sees this , and is willing to stand up for this principle. The violence will never end. I am standing up right now to say it is this easy. My name is Don Cawdrey, and I will go to the ends of the earth to make all sides come to realize this. It is really that simple. I am willing to stand up, who is listening?

658 Tim  Thu, May 13, 2004 6:49:33am

1 more thing, hooray for # 653 !
Thankfully, the West is defined by the secular state.

although this is being deliberately eroded.

yet the belief that this is truly a religious/cultural war is the true grand deception. the real powers that be have actors on both sides. this is true for every war in modern history. just look at the upcoming presidential election, you have your choice of which skull & bones member you want in the white house. this also, is no coincidence. Coke or Pepsi ?
btw, where was George the 1st on the morning of 911 ?
A. having breakfast at the ritz carlton hotel in d.c. with former secretarey of state james baker & members of the bin laden family watcing history unfold on tv while sipping mimosas. there is documentation to back this up from many sources. you'd have to make an effort not to find it. can anyone say peak production ?

659 american[deleted]  Thu, May 13, 2004 7:10:18am
660 Tim  Thu, May 13, 2004 7:32:00am

i thought i was just being bitchy when i called some people on this thread "inbred & illiterate" but then some cheap beer breath redneck comes up with " DIFER", and then "SLOTTER" now i'm really scared !
but these are the people that i feel most sorry for, the products of the deliberate dumbing down of america. they've been given a choice of cancer or polio.

for the record i do love america, for what it was truly meant to be, a basically isolationist republic, & secular as well. i'm saddened by what it's become. when i hear fundamentalist christians invoke the founding fathers i just want to strangle them ! these guys drank & smoked( & not just tobacco) and were porkin' the slaves, both sexes btw.

661 Thom™  Thu, May 13, 2004 7:41:29am

#656 From A Muslim

Try disassociating yourself from the media for a few days and read upon Islam for yourself. I'm sure the CNN and BBC is not exactly an expert on Islam.
...
What better source of Islam can there be besides the Qur'an. Read it, then you can judge for yourself.

Indeed. You have no idea just how informed many of the posters here are about mohammedanism.

And, yes, I have read the koran. It is a monument to stupidity and I am continually amazed that anyone can believe such idiocy.

5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

[9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

ROPMA.

662 us citizen  Thu, May 13, 2004 7:51:25am

-to tim
what are you a god damn dateline reporter? thank you so much for telling us all that our fathers drank and smoked pot. i dont care what they did on their time i respect and honor them forever for what they have done for america. it is people like you that discrace me. you blame rednecks and whatnot for americas problems. people like you are a big problem. why dont you show some fucking respect for some of the finest men in our history books you puss.

663 A guy  Thu, May 13, 2004 7:59:04am

There is no need for anyone to retaliate to the prisoner abuse scandal. The worst part of the whole thing is that the "war" was not agreed upon by the world powers and was therefore illegal. The reason's used by Bush and his administration are not founded. There are no WMD, Chemical warheads or any other of the numerous reason's that were used to start killing iraqi citizens. What we have now is the responsibility to apologize to the world for the wrong doing, get the troops out of the death trap and stop interfering where interference was/is not called for.

664 Smit  Thu, May 13, 2004 8:08:18am

#656 From a Muslim - Thankyou for the moderate tone of your comment.

I've read the Quran. I do not think it is the word of God. I will never be a Muslim.

665 Smit  Thu, May 13, 2004 8:11:03am

#663 A guy - What is to be done about:

Sudan, Saudi Arabia, North Korea?

666 Right Wing Conspirator  Thu, May 13, 2004 8:27:57am

#660 Tim

You seem to be an educated individual, what are your thoughts and opinions on this. Do you think that it could possibly work?

667 Tim Aguilar  Thu, May 13, 2004 8:30:53am

hey, US citizen ,i'm a pussy ? at least i used my real name. anyway i never blamed anything on rednecks. read it again, i said you were victims of a deliberate dumbing down of america, yes, YOU. as far as disgracing (see, there's a G in it ) anyone , i beg to to differ(and 2 F's). i don't think there's anything wrong with drinking or smoking or fornicating , in moderation. these are completely acceptible adult activities. btw, the other type of smoking i was reffering to was opium, not pot, although it is also documented that george washington grew hemp & we'll leave it at that. i don't see why american historians should tell anything but the truth just to make repressed conservatives & fundamentalist imbeciles like you happy.

668 Muslim  Thu, May 13, 2004 8:37:51am

I can see that everyone wants to blame the problems of the world on Islam. If it makes you feel better, then do so.
But let me say this, the truth will always remain the truth.
This is exactly what happened during the time of the Prophet (Peach be upon him). They tried to demonise Islam using all possible means, yet Islam flourished.
It's happening today aswell. Just think for a second, though all the bad press that Islam is receiving today, It's still the fasting growing religion in the world. I don't just mean the middle east, but in the west too. Logic says that when you demonise or give bad press to a particular issue, then the support for that issue decreases. No one in the west has been forced to accept islam by the sword yet Islam is growing. Rather the Qur'an clearly states there is no compulsion in religon. So why is it growing???
There are people of the western countires, who had similar misgivings about Islam, but they started to read up on Islam and they were able to draw the distinction between myth and reality.
On the issue of arabs firing guns into the air to mark certain occasions. Those who are naive to believe that this is part of Islam, remember there were no guns at the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him). This is culture not religion
Who says Islam opresses women. Islam provided women with the rights of Inheritence over 1400 years ago, the west only implemented this over 100 years. As yvonne ridley put it ' Islam in the magna carta' for women. She wasn't forced to become Muslim, she did out of her own choosing. In Islam, women aren't forced to go against their genetics to be something that they aren't. It doesn't matter whether your white, black, fat, thin, short, tall. It's the character that matters. Women, aren't forced to wear the veil. They do so, because they choose to. Yet in the west, women are literally dying (anorexia) becausing society has conditioned their minds into thinking that they must look beautiful.
If they aren't beautiful, then they feel miserable because they're not. Now i ask, who is being opressed Islamic or western women??
Also, to address the issue of the Quranic quotes stated earlier. It's all too easy to take things out of context. The Qur'an is not something that can interpreted by any tom, dick and harry. Those, verses were revealed during war when the muslims were persecuted and had no option but to fight. This is why commentaries of the Qur'an are available to explain the verses. Funny how no one seems to quote the saying of the prophet when he said that during battle, the combatants may not harm women, children, cut down a tree or orpress jewish/christian monks of that time.
Islam is the truth, whether people accept it or not doesn't change the reality. Thousands of years ago, the majority of the people of the world thought that the earth was flat, just because they thought it was flat didn't chance the reality that earth was spherical. In this society, the media has conditioned into believing that Islam is a false and violent religion. But that doesn't change the reality of the truth of Islam.
Regarding Iraq, remember it was the coallition that invaded to remove a dictator from power that they themselves put into power over 30 years ago. To remove their mistake, cost the lives of so many civillians. American citizens often question why the middle east hates them so much. Well, just one incident (the beheading of nicholas berg) has caused the majority of the people in this forum to speak harshly about Islam. When the iraqis have watched 1.5 millions of their own citizens die over the past 10 years because of sanctions not counting the thouands that have been killed during both gulf wars. Is it any wonder they feel that way???
Whether you accept Islam or not, is the Will Of Allah.
In all honesty, though i may not condone your comments, i do understand why you make these comments. If i wasn't a muslim and in your position, i might have probably made the same points.

Again, i say these words not to conteract any arguments but as advice. We all have to face God one day and we will all see what's true and what's not.

I have to thank you all for reading my comments. Most people tend to avoid it. But the responses, show that though most readers don't agree with what i say, they at least take the time to read it. For that i am greatful

thanks

669 Tim Aguilar  Thu, May 13, 2004 8:45:28am

and for anyone who doesn't believe that there's been a deliberate dumbing down of america(even with ample evidence such as US Citizen here, hope he doesn't beat his wife tonight) there's a book you should read by Charlotte Thompson Iserbyt (a truly great american) former deputy secretary to the department of education, under Ronald Reagan titled ' The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America'
[Link: www.newswithviews.com...]
[Link: www.deliberatedumbingdown.com...]

also, i really wish people would back up their shit.

670 Right Wing Conspirator  Thu, May 13, 2004 8:49:33am

#669 Tim

also, i really wish people would back up their shit.

You want us to back up our shit? I knew it. Your part of the corporate conspiracy.

671 Tim Aguilar  Thu, May 13, 2004 8:55:39am

THANK YOU #660 RIGHT WING CONSPIRATOR !
i almost paid 50 bucks for one of those, but 35 is practically wholesale !
anyway, you must of clicked on one of those links i posted. i'll admit there are some pretty out there theories, out there. but you really don't need to leave planet earth to find out how & why , you just have to follow the money.

672 Thom™  Thu, May 13, 2004 8:56:26am

#666 Right Wing Conspirator

LOL. I'm eagerly awaiting his words o' wisdom ...

#668 Muslim

Who says Islam [mohammedanism] opresses women.
...
Women, aren't forced to wear the veil. They do so, because they choose to.

You have got to be kidding ... Tell that to women in Saudi Arabia.

This is why commentaries of the Qur'an [koran] are available to explain the verses.

Ah yes, the hadiths?

Sahih Bukhari Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176: Narrated by 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.'" Sahih Bukhari Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177: Narrated by Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Mohammedan Kill Commands

American citizens often question why the middle east hates them so much. Well, just one incident (the beheading of nicholas berg) has caused the majority of the people in this forum to speak harshly about Islam [mohammedanism].

LOL. Yeah. Just that one "incident" ...

When the iraqis have watched 1.5 millions of their own citizens die over the past 10 years because of sanctions

Sanctions? I thought it was because Hussein was misusing oil for dictatorship money?

673 Tim Aguilar  Thu, May 13, 2004 8:59:00am

#670  
Right Wing Conspirator  5/13/2004 10:49AM PST

KILLER DUDE !

674 Tim Aguilar  Thu, May 13, 2004 9:02:14am

#670  
Right Wing Conspirator  5/13/2004 10:49AM PST

#669 Tim


also, i really wish people would back up their shit.

You want us to back up our shit? I knew it. Your part of the corporate conspiracy.

btw, it's you're ! not your, jeez !

675 Tim Aguilar  Thu, May 13, 2004 9:20:52am

1 last thing, everyone who keeps harping on about religion on this thread just doesn't get it ! the real powers that be, behind any & all events of any significance don't give a damn about god, religion(of any stripe, save for the worship of money) or you! these are parties who say things like " religion is the opiate of the masses"

personally, i do believe in god, but i don't need any intermediaries thank you very much.
my relationship with god is between me & God.

676 J.D.  Thu, May 13, 2004 9:21:31am

#668

(Peach be upon him).

A peach?

What a load of crap that was. You are obviously in the wrong place.

677 Right Wing Conspirator  Thu, May 13, 2004 9:26:51am

Tim

US citizen ,i'm

Extra space before the comma, no space after. 'I' in 'i'm' not capitalized.

fornicating , in


Same as above.

anyone , i beg

Same as above.

and for anyone

Beginning of the sentence should be capitalized.

smoking i was

The 'i' should be capitalized.

'Jeez' is right. I would even go so far as to say 'jeez louis.'

678 Tim Aguilar  Thu, May 13, 2004 9:34:51am

Jeez Louise !
o.k. . so i'm lazy with the shift key !

679 Tim Aguilar  Thu, May 13, 2004 9:37:48am

the other mistakes are my utter lack of typing skills.
this has been good practice !
i'm a shit typist !

680 Davidson Smith  Thu, May 13, 2004 10:02:23am

Looks like we (humans) have two things that tend to cause global problems for us as a race.

1. Our large brains which we are still figuring out how to use correctly.

2. Religion

It seems that through the ages more people have died or been killed in the name of (your deity's name here) than for any other reason.

681 Darragh Quinn  Thu, May 13, 2004 10:15:34am

Here, here, Davidson. The voice of reason is so often lacking on boards such as this. I would, however, add one more thing to your list of things which cause our little planet so many problems ...

3. Flags.

682 Tim Aguilar  Thu, May 13, 2004 10:29:55am

#680  
Davidson Smith  5/13/2004 12:02PM PST
#681  
Darragh Quinn  5/13/2004 12:15PM

not that i have any particular problem with the substance of either of your statements, but those aren't your real names , i mean , you're puttin' me on ! right ?
here, here!

smells like a preppy nancy boy love connection !

683 sugarbabie  Thu, May 13, 2004 10:31:37am

i think that this all bullshit...i think that bush should just push that button and blow them the f*** up! they aint shit we will f*** them up as long as we are in war wit them!

684 Davidson Smith  Thu, May 13, 2004 10:37:43am

I hear you Darragh!

I think it is sick to see these slogans spouting "God Bless The USA"

If there is a God and it created everything why would it want to bless a country that brutally decimated the original spiritual inhabitants of this land?

(before anyone starts to reply to that with ignorant drivel just read it again and think about what i'm saying. If you still want to spew forth ignorance then please feel free, i love to read it)

(Your Deity's Name Here) bless everyone, everywhere.

Namaste,
Dave

685 Thom™  Thu, May 13, 2004 10:39:03am
Namaste,

You're joking ... right?

686 Tim Aguilar  Thu, May 13, 2004 10:42:58am

in case anyone didn't catch it, when i wrote;
support the troops
god bless Amurka!
GLORY!
(all to be said with a texas twang)
i was being completely sarcastic.

687 Davidson Smith  Thu, May 13, 2004 10:49:18am

Actually Tim, (if that is your real name) yes, Davidson Smith is my name. What the hell does that have to do with any of this? I can't speak for Darragh as to his real name but frankly I couldn't care less. As Dr Martin Luther King put it, I judge not by the color of skin (or anyone's name) but by the content of their character.

Yo, Sugarbabie, I hear you mang. Let's just nuke everyone on this planet that disagrees with us and kills Americans. By the time we're done we'll be launching nukes on our own soil.

I do love ignorance at large, although it does tend to make me a bit nervous! But really, it does make life that much more interesting.

688 Tim Aguilar  Thu, May 13, 2004 10:53:59am

#685  
Thom™  5/13/2004 12:39PM PST


Namaste,

You're joking ... right?
if she's not joking she needs to be held , gently caressed & comforted.

689 Davidson Smith  Thu, May 13, 2004 11:00:52am

Thom, wha? Joking about what? Namaste?

Harvard recently did a survey on women's intelligence. They found that 80% of women have had intelligent DNA inside of them at some point in their life but that 60% of them spit it back out!

Now THAT is a joke. Anyone that doesn't know the difference needs to learn a little about life.

To any women that I might have just offended, IT'S A JOKE! Have you never told an off color joke about a man? If you haven't then you should.

Hey Darraugh, I just thought of another to add to the list.

4. People should learn to lighten up a little!

Life is hard with ups and downs. You could die at any moment. Learn to laugh a little, especially at the offensive stuff.

Hey Tim, I wasn't referring to your "god bless Amurka" statement. Actually I hadn't even read it. I was talking about all the bumper stickers i see.

690 Tim Aguilar  Thu, May 13, 2004 11:01:26am

#687  
Davidson Smith  5/13/2004 12:49PM PST

Actually Tim, (if that is your real name) yes, Davidson Smith is my name. What the hell does that have to do with any of this? I can't speak for Darragh as to his real name but frankly I couldn't care less. As Dr Martin Luther King... yawn.

it reminds me of that scene, you know 2 young male prep school sweethearts enjoying a romantic interlude in row boat, you know that one where rupert everett gets spanked (kinda made me hot) i know you've seen it !

691 Thom™  Thu, May 13, 2004 11:05:19am

#689 Davidson Smith

I mean that, after all the bile you've been spewing, you have the gall to end a post with "namaste"? Hence I concluded you were making some kind of joke.

692 Tim Aguilar  Thu, May 13, 2004 11:10:10am

and yet it was the most fragrant sort of bile...

693 Davidson Smith  Thu, May 13, 2004 11:13:54am

Tim wrote:

You're joking ... right?
if she's not joking she needs to be held , gently caressed & comforted.

Ha ha! Now that is a good joke!

At the beginning of this post (all the way at the top) there was talk of killing and retribution. Now I have at least one of you wanting to "gently caress and comfort me"! Now I don't swing that way Tim, but I'm flattered none-the-less! ;-)

Thom, do you know what namaste means? If so then you know that it fits in with what i was saying about religion.

694 Davidson Smith  Thu, May 13, 2004 11:21:27am

Actually my bile is quite fragrant. It must be all the Patchouli and New Age bullshit that permeates the air these days.

I am a student of the Indian (India) Tabla drums and the Sitar. I happen to admire the musical ability of a culture that is thousands of years old. Namaste simply means (roughly) "Whatever the Truth is in me acknowledges the Truth in you." Yes, i agree, it sounds like New Age crap but it is Old School, i guarantee it. Plus it's a deeper way of saying "Wassup"

So,

Wassup!

695 Tim Aguilar  Thu, May 13, 2004 11:26:16am

i prefer sandalwood & "es verdad"

696 Tim Aguilar  Thu, May 13, 2004 11:34:47am

also, do a search for the 'Georgia Guidestones'
could this be somehow connected to current events ?
of particular interest is ted turners' connection.
could this have something to do with jane finding god & leaving him ?

697 Davidson Smith  Thu, May 13, 2004 11:35:31am

Tim: i prefer sandalwood & "es verdad"


Yeah, my girlfriend loves Sandalwood. Damn, she goes wild when i wear it!

698 Davidson Smith  Thu, May 13, 2004 11:38:31am

Tim: i prefer sandalwood & "es verdad"

Es Verdad is Spanish for "Is Truth" Is that a Mexican form of Hai Karate?

;-)

699 Tim Aguilar  Thu, May 13, 2004 11:46:55am

yes,exactly & i'm half mexican so i should know !
i was serious about the 'Georgia Guidstones' though,also, check out these
[Link: www.tarpley.net...]
[Link: davidicke.www.50megs.com...]
[Link: www.prisonplanet.com...]
[Link: www.kmf.org...]
[Link: www.bankloansecrets.com...]
[Link: www.rense.com...]
[Link: educate-yourself.org...]
[Link: www.abovetopsecret.com...]
[Link: www.rense.com...]
[Link: www.barefootsworld.net...]
[Link: www.commondreams.org...]
[Link: www.hereinreality.com...]
[Link: www.salon.com...]
[Link: thewebfairy.com...]
[Link: thewebfairy.com...]
[Link: thewebfairy.com...]
[Link: www.geocities.com...]
[Link: 911research.wtc7.net...]
[Link: www.freemasonrywatch.org...]
[Link: 100777.com...]
[Link: www.rense.com...]
[Link: www.rense.com...]
[Link: www.startfinish.biz...]

700 Tim Aguilar  Thu, May 13, 2004 11:48:39am

gotta run for now !
will check back later !

701 Thom™  Thu, May 13, 2004 11:54:56am

#693 Davidson Smith

Of course I know what it means, and no - it doesn't fit.

702 randomina  Thu, May 13, 2004 12:09:42pm

if it's so easy to believe that "only a handful" of american soldiers were involved in the abu ghraib abuses, then why is it so hard to believe that "only a handful" of radical barbarians who happen to follow islam? (now if you believe that the abuse is systemic... )

let's not forget that oklahoma city, happened here on U.S. SOIL, COMMITTED BY AMERICANS. let's not forget that matthew shepherd happened here. ditto james byrd (texas dragging death).

let's not pretend that americans aren't also capable of barbarism. often directed at its own by its own.

and while we're at it: let's not forget that abu ghraib was more than making some people pose naked. there were deaths. at least one was labeled a homicide.

and let's also remember the folks at abu ghraib are pre-trial SUSPECTS being held -- many without reason or evidence (other than B.I. -- being iraqi). they are *not* convicted prisoners.

this is not to justify the murder of nick berg, but let's not be so dismissive of the incidents at abu ghraib.

703 Davidson Smith  Thu, May 13, 2004 12:18:22pm

Well Tim, ¡Pueda sus días sean llenados de sol y felicidad y sus noches repletas de tequila y mujeres!

(i used translation.com so it may sound a little funny to you!)

Thanks for the link to the Guidestones. That's interesting.

Well, signing off until tomorrow. I came to this site looking for the Nick Berg video to see what those murderous terrorist bastards did and got side tracked into playing a round of verbal frisbee golf with some of you phuckers! (nice round!) Looking forward to getting nothing done at work again tomorrow...!

what is it about violence that makes some of us non-violent types want to view it? (don't get me wrong, i'm not one of the pacifists. i know how to kill in three different languages, i just hate violence) I guess it's some morbid facination with the inevitability of death. Some kind of "better him than me" mentality? Maybe some of us just like a good live blood show. Hey, we are all just primal animals with a thin "civilized" veneer covering our ancient blood lust. Hmm, i think a good strong red wine while eating a rare ribeye steak will satisfy my inner savage!

To some of you i say "Namaste"

To some of you i say "Wasabi"

And to some i just say "sick my duck"

Tim, you might like this one i just heard recently: Why did the Blonde fuck the Mexican?

Her Spanish instructor told her there would be extra credit if she did an essay.

Blue skies, soft landings...
Dave

704 Nuke Iraq[deleted]  Thu, May 13, 2004 12:40:17pm
705 DP111  Thu, May 13, 2004 1:35:42pm

668 Muslim

I genuinely believe that the koran is the word of Satan, if Satan exists, that is. Otherwise it is merely the ranting of a thieving brigand and pervert. No loving God would have said 'kill the Jews and Christians'. God loves all his children, his creation after all, regardless if they are Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists or even Atheists. This is so simple a truth, that it confounds me why the writer of the Koran did not understand such a simple truism. Unless of course the Koran is written as manual for the subjugation and loot of other people. Then of course it makes perfect sense.

Salman Rushdie wrote a novel and what he got was a death sentence. If Muslims cannot abide by the rules and culture of the West, then I would very much appreciate that Muslims leave for a Muslim country of their choice. Other writers critical of Islam have had to change their names and live under police protection. And this in the West. It is completely unacceptable that your brothers in faith are perceived as a murderous threat to writers. Our civilisation advances by critical thought and I detest and abhor the fact that you have made it difficult for writers to question Islam. This even in the West.

Is their freedom of religion in Saudi Arabia, the land where your prophet held sway? If as you say, there is freedom of religion in Islam, then surely Saudi Arabia would be a shining example of your contention. Instead, what we have is the complete reverse. Practice what you preach!

The fact that Islam is expanding is simply a consequence of the fact that Muslims show no responsibility in birth control. It is also known that Muslims are leaving Islam in droves, but are afraid to come out, for fear that they will be murdered (So much for freedom of religion in Islam). And again, Islam maybe expanding. So what? It has been known, that periodically in time, mankind seems to lose its moral compass and embraces evil ideologies. It is has been our grace so far, that we have righted our moral compass in time.

You say there is freedom for women in Islam. Is this some kind of a macabre or sadistic joke? If it is, then apologies for not getting it. Otherwise, again, practice what you preach.

You should be ashamed of yourself that you idolise a person who murdered his way to power. Yes people do idolise Hitler, Stalin or Alexander as military geniuses. But no one in his right mind would hold them up as saints, prophets or Holy men. If Mohamed were idolised as a military and political genius, I would have no qualms in agreeing with you. But as a holy prophet? You must be joking.

The fact that Muslims idolise a person of such low character as Mohammed, who lied, cheated, reneged on solemn treaties and murdered his critics in the dead of night by employing assassins, speaks volumes of the complete moral reversal of the followers of Islam.

And by the by, if the Koran is the final word of allah, (and here I make a clear distinction with a different deity such as God), he would have said it in a manner so that everyone understood it for all time. He would have not said it such, that it required a chain of imams or ayatollahs to explain what allah meant. What absolute rubbish.

I really think that you should visit the site

www.faithfreedom.org

You may find it instructional.

706 joejoe  Thu, May 13, 2004 2:13:49pm

kind of a bad day for humanity all round, huh.
i dont really know how to feel about all this. as an australian i guesss i dont share some of the us vs them anger you guys have (i understand it though), but it still disgusts me to the bone. why people hate each other i dont know. we really are just animals i suppose, fighting for food, love, land, religion (god knows why).
poor nick. id love to think he died for something, but its just a tragic waste. peace and love to you all.

707 DP111  Thu, May 13, 2004 2:31:53pm

668 Muslim

I do not just judge the Islam by the deeds of its followers. I have read the koran and found it to be morally and ethically perverted. Its concept of a supreme deity is vengeful, or trivial at best. A supreme deity that requires his ego and vanity to be assuaged continuously, is a god that suffers from an inferiority complex. If he is not assuaged he reverts to vengeance and mass murder. So truly a bizarre concept for a supreme deity is difficult to imagine. And finally its moral message is one of murder.

A complete waste of my time. The fact that some in the West find it alluring, is that they seek comfort in its certainty. It also seems to be very popular among incarcerated criminals. Considering all in all, that is not surprising.

708 ashley  Thu, May 13, 2004 2:34:06pm

I'm 17 and I just watched the video with my sister who is 25. We had to shut it off as we were both grasping our stomachs about to puke. This is sick... it's repulsive and i am deeply sorry for his family and for everyone out in Iraq

709 Yeah Right  Thu, May 13, 2004 2:40:35pm

Guess what America,
What happened to Nic Berg cannot be condoned in any way whatsoever. It was wrong by any reasonable moral standard and not part of Isalmic religious practise. But guess what, Nic Berg was making money in Iraq and knew the consequences of going there to work.

710 Muslim  Thu, May 13, 2004 2:48:12pm

#705 DP111
okay, since you claim to be God's spokesperson on this earth by claiming what God is and isn't then permit me to ask you why God allowed religions. If it doesn't matter what religion you are then why Judaism and chrisitanity?
Why the differences?
Christians believe that Jesus is God (or son of God), jews rejected him as their messiah. All religions contradict each other on their foundations. Of course it matters to God what religion you are? Sure God is about love, but it isn't just about love. If God is just love then why has he created a world in which we have earthquakes, hurricanes, floods, heatwaves. I'm sure man didn't play a part in these natural phenomena. One of the attributes of God is love, but he is also the best of Judges and revealed Laws that need to be implemented. Each religion has their own laws.
If Christianity is just about love then what about the massacares during the crusades or the spanish inquisition? We're not talking hundreds of people slain, it's thousands if not hundreds of thousands. Even then i'm not labelling all chrstians as fundementalists and terrorists.
Regarding Saudi Arabia, i've never stated that the current Saudi Arabia is a shining example of a Muslim state. I'm telling you it isn't. It's run by rich monarchies that don't care about implementing religion.
Regarding Salman Rushdie, in the history of Christianity how many people were put to death for heresy and blasphemy??
Evil ideologies??? You're neither a God nor a Prophet, who are you to proclaim it as an evil ideology. It's okay for coallition troops to kill civillians but when it's a Muslim then it becomes a front page story. Why the double standards??
Also your quote
who lied, cheated, reneged on solemn treaties and murdered his critics in the dead of night by employing assassins.
Can you please provide any factual evidence???
Let me quote some non-muslim authors and what they say about the Prophet (peace be upon him):
" he was an honest and upright man who had gained the respect and loyalty of others who were like-wise honest and upright men." (Encyclopedia Britannica, Vol 12)

"He must be called the Saviour of Humanity. I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it much-needed peace and happiness".
(George Bernard Shaw, The Genuine Islam, Singapore, Vol. 1, No.8, 1936). The book was published in 1936 so the author is basing his statements on the real islam, not the political mess of the muslims today.

"Muhammad was the soul of kindness, and his influence was felt and never forgotten by those around him"
(D.C. Sharma,'The Prophets of the East', Calcutta, 1935, pp.12). By the way, the author is a hindu.

"Muhammad (PBUH) was a religious teacher, a social reformer, a moral guide, an administrative colossus, a faithful friend, a wonderful companion, a devoted husband, a loving father - all in one. No other man in history ever excelled or equalled him in any of these different aspects of life - but it was only for the selfless personality of Muhammad (PBUH) to achieve such incredible perfections. " (Lamartine, Historire de la Turquie, Paris, 1854, Vol. II, pp. 276-277).

Plus there are many more, all these quotes were made by non-muslims, some of them pre 20th century. These aren't people that are brainwashed by the current media.

Anyway, i end this article. I want to thank you for reading my articles. Although, i may not agree with some of the comments, i thank you all for taking the time.

711 Paul B. Samwell  Thu, May 13, 2004 3:08:54pm

Death to all [bigoted word]s. I'd even be willing to start it, but do not have any living near. When are we going to get rid of them? I sure as hell am not going to vote for Dubya because any sane person can see he dragged us into this.

712 Thom™  Thu, May 13, 2004 4:03:24pm

#710 Muslim

Hudna

713 Thom™  Thu, May 13, 2004 4:08:47pm

#710 mohammedan

It's okay for coallition troops to kill civillians but when it's a Muslim then it becomes a front page story. Why the double standards??

Coalition troops kill civilians by accident.

mohammedans specifically target civilians.

You are a typical mohammedan. Lying your ass off, morally equivocating, evading issues and direct questions and ignoring facts. Inventing facts, in fact. Taqqiyah.

You really came to the wrong place to try to play this disgusting game.

714 Thom™  Thu, May 13, 2004 4:14:15pm
Plus there are many more, all these quotes were made by non-muslims, some of them pre 20th century. These aren't people that are brainwashed by the current media.

Of course not. They were ignorant of just how evil mohammed (piss be upon him) was. Or they were not ignorant, but chose to promote the filthy cult of mohammedanism anyway.

"Dhimmi" is not a phenomenon new to the 21st century after all ...

715 FGWB  Thu, May 13, 2004 4:15:38pm

You people need to pull your heads out of your asses and wise up. America is bringing this upon itself and you only have W to thank for it. I am a red blooded patriotic American who believes in our constitution and the freedoms my Grandfather died for. This war and the adminsistration who brought it on has got to go. They are the least American among us

716 HH  Thu, May 13, 2004 4:20:27pm

Do not normal people now realize we can not let animals
in the name of God of any belief continue this path
now we are smarter than that we have the means to catch and destroy the likes of this behavior and any who really believe in islam need to hand filthy rats like this over to the real LAW>>>>People who practice good in their life maybe not even in the name of religon
just trying to survive

717 Cody  Thu, May 13, 2004 4:37:38pm

in re: #642

Dear Michael;

"Cody, that would mean each and every airline in the world, including all the US airlines."

YES, even our airlines and ships. ESPECIALLY our airlines and ships.

Isolate the cretins and protect our citizens. They can then stay in their respective countries and kill each other as much as they want.

Why is the US so hell bent on forcing democracy upon a people who don't understand or want it? I say let us get out of there and they will think again before doing something as they sit and wonder why we came over there totaled their countries and left. Quid pro quo: Terrorize the US and it will be revisited upon you 72x.


Cody

Was in Paris a year or so ago and the skinheads were tossing Arabs in the Seine. Thought that was a cute touch.

718 Thom™  Thu, May 13, 2004 4:55:10pm

#668 mohammedan

Also, to address the issue of the Quranic [koranic] quotes stated earlier. It's all too easy to take things out of context.

I notice that you didn't disavow those verses of the false prophet exhorting his fellow criminals to kill Christians and Jews.

No, you merely appealed to "context".

And, as the hadith shows, the "context" is that mohammedans are exhorted to kill the "infidel".

I get the context, alright. So do you. That you would lie about it is what makes you and your co-religionists so disgusting.

719 Keith  Thu, May 13, 2004 5:02:04pm

If these guys have such faith in their cause then why do they have to cover their faces. That is because they know that they may have their asses marked!!!

720 Steve G  Thu, May 13, 2004 5:10:40pm

When will people finally wake up and smell the coffee?
Why shuold you and me risk our lives (as soldiers in a battlefield, as possible targets of a terrorist attack, etc.), hate Muslims, Christians, Americans, etc, when fat, rich and cunning warpigs pull the strings, without anyone actually noticing, sucking our money and creating hatred and wars for (their personal) specific interests?
People fighting (and dying) like pawns on a board game, whle people whose abilities as leaders are rather questionable, hold our future in their hands (Hussein, Bush, Putin, and the list goes on and on and on...). Why should I live in fear? Why must my country spend 1.5bilion Euros on security technology for the Olympic Games, when the basic wage in the country is the lowest in all of the EU? Why should I allow for new laws to be passed, allowing the authorities to monitor my emails, phonecalls, install cameras on the streets, etc? Why should I pay money out of my own pocket for NATO troops to come to Greece for the Games, as extra security? And finally, why should I accept all the above, when the few who have caused all that is bad in the world get richer and fatter bacuse of it?

721 Mercenary1970, Merc to my friends  Thu, May 13, 2004 5:14:30pm

I came across this thread, while linking for more information on this unfortunate situation.
My sn is not at affectation, it is/was my career.
Aside from making a career of standing aginst inhumanity in many forms, I still think of myself as a compassionate, reasonable,humanitarian.
In 30 years, I have learned, altruisims aside, sometimes a reasoned amount of force, is the only effective reaction to an unreasonable situation or person.
" react not from outrage or anger, for he,who first looses themselves, looses the battle "
I had not thought to ever see reason enough to take up arms again in my lifetime. Looks Like I was wrong.

722 STM  Thu, May 13, 2004 5:20:28pm

Watching these people made me realize that I do not fear them.

I fear the people in this world who do not understand and believe the depth of the threat we are facing.

STM

723 D  Thu, May 13, 2004 5:43:05pm

We are forgetting the fact that mother and fatther lost a son in a horrific and unjust way. Anger is expected by those not immediately impacted by this murder, but let us also grieve with Nick's parents.

724 Tim Aguilar  Thu, May 13, 2004 7:29:12pm

you people are still harping on about all this stupid religion BS !
#720  
Steve G  5/13/2004 07:10PM PST

this guy's the only one here who's got it right aside from myself.

725 Julie Cain  Thu, May 13, 2004 7:32:34pm

It's time to bring our military & our money back home and let the SOBs kill each other. We had no damn business going over there to begin with. We all know someone who desperately needs the $ being spent on a bunch of sick, unthankful animals. Time to take care of our own and let them all go to hell over there. It wouldn't take them long to kill each other off.

726 Mike B  Thu, May 13, 2004 7:33:29pm

Where is the outcry from the Muslim organizations? If these monsters were Christians praising Jesus while committing this unspeakable murder

727 Matt M  Thu, May 13, 2004 7:38:18pm

Islam the religion of peace???
Did you know that the true meaning of the word Islam means SUBMISSION?

728 Sad and Scared  Thu, May 13, 2004 7:38:48pm

Whose to say these crazy ass people are not living among us everyday. I have a baby and I am scared to death that one of these extremist will be at the mall or the grocery store the same time as us. PLEASE GOD, do something. These people need to be exterminated. I see now why Bush has sent our beloved troops over to Iraq, these people must be stopped.

729 traumatized  Thu, May 13, 2004 7:47:32pm

I should have never watched it. i want to kill every one of those godless bastards.

730 Tim Aguilar  Thu, May 13, 2004 7:49:43pm

also, & most importantly, everyone on this thread seems to take for granted the authenticity of this film.
this is not to say that Nick Berg wasn't actually executed, i believe he was, but that there is no proof his killers were actually islamic fundamentalist terrorists. to further illustrate this point this incident couldn't have come at more optimum time, i.e. prisoner abuse scandal, for the bush administration.

731 Danny M  Thu, May 13, 2004 7:58:52pm

Kill Them All And Let Allah Sort Them Out

732 Cody  Thu, May 13, 2004 8:11:24pm

why don't we isolate the Middle East and release Ebola or smallpox there?

733 Danny M  Thu, May 13, 2004 8:11:31pm

Do You People Not Think That If Those Animals Had A Chance To Push A Button And Kill All of The Americans Over Here ,That They Wouldn't ! We Have That Button !!
But We Are A Humane Society If We Did That , All the bleeding Heart People In The World Would Shit.

734 Danny M  Thu, May 13, 2004 8:17:17pm

Kill Them All Men Women And Children, Guilty Or
Innocent, They Would Do The Same To Us If They Could

735 Dura  Thu, May 13, 2004 8:57:03pm

hi
i know ppl have said this before but why in gods name is this not front page news? why is it these ppl who had silly pics taken of them in a prison that they are fed and have a bed to sleep in more important, they were prisners for gods sakes..yes i saw the film and im sick of the fence sitters no one ewants to see it..they wanna go back to thier comfy little suburban world and pretend this is on the other side of the world it doesnt affect me not my problem..wrong..these ppl need to be stopped and im sick of bush and everyone being SO pc and kind to the middle east yet we are in a war arent we? I mean the man apoligized to the prisners familes..i say lets send the humaniterians over there or atleast make them watch this film to jutify thier paycheck, just so they see they dont read from the same page as we do..i didnt agree with the war so much i thought we need to do more here, and let them mess up overe there but now...we are there, this has been done please god let some one with power and influnce see this so this is whats important

736 Colin Kicklighter  Thu, May 13, 2004 9:10:24pm

I have a strong feeling that we are entering one of the bloodiest centuries of human existence. The United States has no option BUT to win this war in Iraq. To do otherwise would subject the country to decline by putting us at the mercy of terrorists all over the world who will expose our weakness and inability to act decisively. However, when you are fighting an enemy that does not play by any set of "rules," such as those set out by the Geneva Convention, and uses its own holy places as arsenals, the battle becomes impossible to win. The U.S. will have no choice but to adopt the same ruthless and barbaric mentality. I am not upset by the actions of American soldiers abroad nor would I be astounded if the United States adopted an altogether more aggressive and seemingly barbaric approach in Iraq. I feel as if it is compulsory in achieving the United States’ goals. This necessary reaction will cause the complete polarization of the world into two separate and mutually exclusive groups. Nearly every nation will have to subscribe to one side or the other much like in the Cold War of the last century. One side will consist of Islamic nations who will find strength in devotion to the cause of their religion. The other side will be the nations of the western "free" world. Both sides will be willing to do ANYTHING to ensure their survival. The nations siding with the U.S. will have the absolute power of nuclear weaponry while the Islamic countries are armed with the promise of martyrdom and the willingness to commit atrocities in the name of their faith. Both sides will be willing to use all necessary force. This is just a prediction but I think everyone will find much truth in my statements. Which side will you be on? Prepare yourselves for WWIII.

737 dylan  Thu, May 13, 2004 10:15:04pm

you all realize we asked for this, right? if some strange contry came in an invaded us in the guise of peacemaking, and then things happened in their prisons like what happened over there, people over here would be hunting down every vaguely middle-eastern person and seriously hurting them. i'm not saying this man deserved it, or that anyone deserves it, but these are the consequences of america's actions.

738 zulubaby  Thu, May 13, 2004 10:16:59pm

This thread is like troll-paradise.

739 Jennifer  Thu, May 13, 2004 10:41:05pm

Quit whining, you idiots! We should appreciate the RESTRAINT the Muslims have shown us for decades after we have endlessly bombed them or financed their bombing all to support the nation that owns the US media, occupies our academies and counts the US congress as its prison-style bitch: ISRAEL.

So some sneaky Jew finally dies in the whole mess! Big deal! REAL Americans who actually consider themselves American are getting their asses shot off every day! For what? It ain't oil, unfortunately! Ask Wolfowitz or Perle or Feith! It's for ISRAELI HEGEMONY! It's for Nick Berg's Jewish nuclear homeland!

You simple-minded anti-Muslim retards boggle the mind. Get a clue what's actually going on in this world. My husband is a marine officer IN IRAQ RIGHT NOW and his men all know what's up. If we want peace in this world the solution is simple: deliver the next load of nuclear weapons to Israel from space instead of cargo freighters.

740 zulubaby  Thu, May 13, 2004 10:43:55pm

Jennifer, go to hell. Soon.

741 zulubaby  Thu, May 13, 2004 10:49:41pm
You simple-minded anti-Muslim retards boggle the mind.

Much like your Jew-hatred.

My husband is a marine officer IN IRAQ RIGHT NOW

Really? This him?

742 Basia  Thu, May 13, 2004 10:53:15pm

Jennifer, you're right, but you don't have a heart.

743 Tim Aguilar  Thu, May 13, 2004 10:55:30pm

Jenifer's right about the problem, well half right anyway as oil is as much a reason for this action as Israel.
anyone ever hear of the term peak production ?
we're running out of oil folks, it's as simple as that.
saudi arabia has the biggest deposits in the world.
you know who's 2nd ?
Iraq.
if i had any say in policies of the US , the 1st thing i'd do would be to abolish the Federal Reserve System.
just about every major problem in the world today can be traced back to it.

744 zulubaby  Thu, May 13, 2004 10:58:03pm
well half right anyway as oil is as much a reason for this action as Israel.

We went to war for Israel? How do you live with your stupidity?

745 danny[deleted]  Thu, May 13, 2004 10:59:07pm
746 Tim Aguilar  Thu, May 13, 2004 11:05:11pm

let's make a distinction between Israel and Zionism.
there are alot of prominent Jews out there who are for a jewish homeland yet anti-Zionist. a good example would be Noam Chomsky.
anyone out there read 'The Transfer Agreement' by Edwin Black ?

747 Jennifer  Thu, May 13, 2004 11:11:06pm

#744  
zulubaby  5/14/2004 12:58AM PST

"We went to war for Israel? How do you live with your stupidity?"

Hey Zulubaby: Explain CLEAN BREAK, or haven't you heard of Bush war architechts' (the Jews Perle and Wolfowitz) late-90s proposal to secure Israel by bombing the Arab world into the stone age, beginning with "regime change" for Iraq?

Why'd we go, Zulubaby, oil? Been to a gas station lately? The Israelis are getting the oil, not us.

Why'd we go Zulubaby, WMDs? The only WMDs in the Middle East are in Israel. And we aren't talking about a balsa wood RC airplane or a petre dish of salmonella. We're talking about the world's third biggest nuclear arsenal, wielded by psychotic, ultra-aggressive war criminals who regularly threaten to use it against Europe if things don't go the chosen people's way.

You want me to go to hell? EXPLAIN CLEAN BREAK.

Then I'll go.

:)

748 Tim Aguilar  Thu, May 13, 2004 11:22:43pm

now you're just being ignorant Jenifer. just about everything in america runs on fossil fuels, not just cars.
the US still gets the lions' share. don't be dumb enough to equate oil company profiteering with shortages.
as for "the architects of war..." you're absolutely right.
also see william cristol and the project for a new american century who pushing for continued long term presence in the middle east in order to secure it's natural resources, i.e. oil.
once again,
PEAK PRODUCTION !

749 Aphexx  Thu, May 13, 2004 11:39:20pm

ok guys, allot of good opinions/ideas and arguements... but what have we really learned here? let's be simple: first, don't trust anybody (government)

second, don't go to Iraq!!! (this is the most important thing i must emphasize... ) Nick Berg (God rest his poor soul) is an American hero for going over there in the first place, BUT!! (and there is a but) he should have chose the safe decision as I have and said fuck it to the idea of going to help a bunch of people who really never have and never will be greatful for what we're trying to do for 'em.

Third, our enemies aren't coming... they are already here!, they are in our schools, our gas stations and (even scarier) they run half the stores in the local malls (atleast my mall anyway) ... now don't think just because they live here that they are "cool" with you, I assure you thay are not, in fact they hate you and are probably planning or have relatives who are planning to kill you with some strategiacally placed suicide-bombs! as i see it there will be a normal peaceful day and then out of nowhere ::BAMM!!:: they are everywhere (much like pearl harbor) but unlike pearl harbor they will be detonating themselves in malls and at crowded gas station pumps, they will be pulling fire alarms and waiting for kids to run out of their schools so they can mow their fellow class mates down (just like mommy and daddy told them to do before they left to go mail some infected-bio/chem. spore cocktails at the local post office before setting the airport on fire)

... ok so i got a little carried away, but as you can see, THEY'RE ALREADY HERE!!! (much like undetected cancer)

so what do we do to protect ourselves and loved ones?? lemme sum it up:

1st
DON'T GO TO IRAQ!

2nd
Buy a pump shotgun, semi-automatic rifle (if you're over 18 you can get one at wal-mart for around $120) buy some handguns (if your over 21) buy a kevlar vest (you can sometime get 'em at army/navy stores) and if you wanna be paranoid get a gas-mask (i got an isreali one from my grandma)

3rd
take some self defense/boxing/fighting lessons (this is good b/c you will get exercise, so regardless of weather you ever need to use your newfound knowledge or not you will end up in great shape... it might even help you get laid)

4th
come up with a suicide plan incase you're captured and awaiting execution... I always carry an overdose amount of klonopins for this very reason... there is no way those motherfuckers are taking me alive!!

5th
know your neighbors!!... you'll probably make some friends... but there's always the chance that some guy next door named muhammed is training a 16 year old to be the next highway sniper.

6th

Have an escape plan... there would be nothing more shitty to find out your town/city is under attack and you don't know where it's safe to go and you've just got stuck in traffic that makes rush hour seem like a desert highway... i suggest backroads.

7th

Trust your instincts, if something tells you to leave somewhere, or something doesn't look/seem right... get the fuck out of there!!


and that's all i got... we need to take our heads out of paris hiltons reality TV ass and realize that it's time to prepare for dangerous times... and then once we're good and prepared with our optimum defenses in check then we can sit down and truly relax knowing when some allah loving parasite comes knocking on our door they'll wish they never stepped foot on american soil!!

you know I'm not proud of our government, or society in general... but when i see the atrocities being commited in these foreign desert wastelands, and then I pause and reflect on the lush possibilities that exist in this country (and the fact that women can wear whatever they want/ and be treated like princesses instead of property)
IT MAKES ME FUCKING PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN!!!


(if anyone has anymore safety ideas that would be kew)

RIP Nick Berg

750 YankeeChick  Thu, May 13, 2004 11:39:46pm

I made myself watch this horrible site so I could know first hand what barbarism Nick had to endure. Thank God he was unaware of what was to come. The fear would have been excrutiating.

We have other hostages still in danger and next in line for additional acts to appease allah. Is anyone trying to find them ... delta force...fbi...cia???

This country has become so politically correct that we have become a weak, limp and impotent insect. It is not the country that my family has fought for for over 120 years. My dad was rejected for heart condition, but went to work in a war plant painting LSTs. If he were here now, I bet he would be saying we ought to blacken the skies over the whole area.

The stock pile of nuclear (not nucUlar) warheads is a testament to our loss of status in the world.

I haven't heard a single "world leader" speak out on this horrible brutal murder. & we have bailed out almost everyone at one time or another.

I haven't seen the video of Danny Pearl's ordeal, but I must say I still think of him daily.

I truly thank you for the posting of this site, although I know I will never be the same. But then again, nothing is the same is it??? after 9/11 it is as if the gates of hell have sprung open and we're at the thresh hold.

This is my first posting and hope I have said something that makes sense in this time of madness.

As a nurse, it hurts my heart to see someone suffer so much and not be able to do anything. Thanks for this thread so I may get a little off my chest - after watching I find it hard to breath.

Thanks for allowing me to post.

RuthU

751 Dave  Thu, May 13, 2004 11:43:37pm

It's truly sad to see a waste of life like that. It's too bad he didnt heed warnings to get out of the country. Many of you have no doubt read of the concidental ties that this guy had to al qaeda. Not saying they are factual, but it makes me wonder a little.

Having said that, I don't see how wasting lives en masse is the answer. Isn't that the same thing, on a larger scale? If we are so much better, or so "right" than we need to try to show it.

I didn't ask for the "war," and neither did Iraq. Try to at least keep in perspective the reason why we invaded Iraq in the first place. No reason at all. No links to al qaeda no womd, nothing.

I am horrified at what these guys are capable of doing in the name of their religion, but "kill em all" sounds more like something they would say. Of course the catholics did the same thing during the crusades, killing all those of muslim faith who refused to convert to christianity.

I would gladly put a lead pill of reality into anyone who invaded my home and threatened me or my countrymen, but I think you tread on dangerous ground when you mention killing all the members of any religion.

Hitler was fond of doing exactly that. I don't want to be like him and I don't think you do either.

Let's focus on wiping out al qaeda, not islam. It may not be ideal, but to do otherwise makes us just as insane as the terrorists.

Thanks for reading. Flame away. And God bless the troops.

752 Mathew Diva  Thu, May 13, 2004 11:50:38pm

Islam is a religion of peace?! Give me a break!! Take a look at these excerpts from an English translation of the Quoran. NOTE: There ARE "positive" and merciful passages in the Quoran of course, but these following passages are the "smoking gun" that these butchers fixate on:

>>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;>>>>>>>>>>>> >
And there shall be no way open against those who, after being wronged, avenge themselves

The Jews say, "Ezra (Ozair) is a son of God"; and the Christians say, "The Messiah is a son of God." Such the sayings in their mouths! They resemble the saying of the Infidels of old! God do battle with them! How they are misguided!

And they say, "God hath a son:" No! Praise be to Him! But His, whatever is in the Heavens and the Earth! All obeyeth Him, they take their teachers, and their monks, and the Messiah, son of Mary, for Lords beside God, though bidden to worship one God only. There is no God but He! Far from His glory be what they
associate with Him!

And of those who say, "We are Christians," have we accepted the covenant. But they too have forgotten a part of what they were taught; wherefore we have stirred up enmity and hatred among them that shall last till the day of the Resurrection; and in the end will God tell them of their doings.

O Believers! take not the Jews or Christians as friends. They are but one another's friends. If any one of you taketh them for his friends, he surely is one of them! God will not guide the evil doers.

O Prophet! make war on the infidels and hypocrites, and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their abode! and wretched the passage to it!

But no place of repentance shall there be for those who do evil, until, when death is close to one of them, he saith, "Now verily am I turned to God;" nor to those who die unbelievers. These! we have made ready for them a grievous torment!

753 YankeeChick  Thu, May 13, 2004 11:52:04pm

I cannot imagine the feelings the Berg family is experiencing right now. They are probably still in shock. I am single with no one in the military now, but I struck a blow against the enemy and adopted a soldier. It may not be much, but knowing he receives things from home (even tho I am a stranger) and knows that the average Joe is behind the troops.

I dont know what the answer is. and that is sad. I pray for the return of our troops and the end to this madness.

You notice that the news tonight were directing innuendo about Nick Bergs loyalty to America because he loaned his laptop to a terrorist (unknowingly).

???

Ruth

754 Tim Aguilar  Thu, May 13, 2004 11:57:58pm

1st of all i'd like to thank Aphid, i mean Aphexx for the safety tips, but I'm kinda busy as it is , i mean there's a quality of life issue in the present and we're all gonna die anyway, you know, death & taxes.
as for Ruth , i agree the culture is way too PC , on the surface anyway cause that's as deep as it really goes, just listen to talk radio if you have the time. unfortunately i don't . i have much more pressing matters to attend to, like cleaning tile grout with a toothbrush. as for everything being different after 911,
bullshit ! everything is exactly the same, you just woke up ! oh, 1 thing will be different. there will be a stunning, brand new mega office complex at the lower tip of Manhattan.

755 Smit  Fri, May 14, 2004 1:50:10am

So on a thread about an American being beheaded in Iraq by Al-Queda, 'Jennifer' pops up to tell us it's all Israel's fault.

Trolls are nothing if not consistant.

Can't wait for this thread to be closed.

756 Steve G  Fri, May 14, 2004 2:03:13am

I read this above: "people who are never going to appreciate what we're trying to do for 'em. "!!!
Dude, do you really believe that the US is really trying to do something for Iraq (or, rather do soemthing TO Iraq?)? One thing that I think most people do not take into consideration over there in the States, is the way we receive our information on everything that goes on worldwide. I might be living in a completely different country, I have lived in England (when the war in Iraq began, last year) and most of my friends were Americans (so I probably know just as much about American lifestyle as anyone). There is one thing that I have come to believe over the years= the news we receive, the history that we learn, growing up and the image of the world (and of our place within it) that we shape later on, are all biased to an unimaginably great extent. The sooner you figure this out, the sooner you will feel sorry for people who claim that the war against terrorism, the war in Vietnam, the war in Kossovo and every conflict around the world calls for American intervention, and should be resolved with a large mass-murdering nuclear bomb. If you dont (want to) see how biased everything we learn is, then you will just go on shouting "lets nuke them, lets kill them all!!!" all in the name of Democracy, Freedom and God (who said that Christians do not kill in His Name???). My country has suffered a lot, and the "threat" that the US is facing right now is nothing compared to the 400-year slavery under the Turks, venetians, English, the 7-year junta which was installed by and sustained with US (CIA) assistance, two world wars (both leading to the occupation of the country by different forces, German, Bulgarian, Italian, etc) and a civil war, genocide in Asia Minor, etc...Last year, friends came over to Greece from the States and when our discussion was lead to politics, they were SHOCKED when they compared the kind of information they had about different international issues to what I believed.

757 wjs  Fri, May 14, 2004 2:51:54am

KILL THEM...KILL THEM ALL!

758 Meg  Fri, May 14, 2004 3:11:05am

Kill THEM... this is what I am seeing on all these websites. Someone posted above that Hitler too was prone to killing off an entire religion. Something a teacher once told me is when you see or read about something truly horrifying like the holocaust or Nick Berg's beheading and you think to yourself who could be capable of something this awful - LOOK IN THE MIRROR.

For anyone to say Kill THEM ALL - you are obviously just as ignorant as them and I feel sorry for you. All of us are susceptible to this killing attitude. It's not the answer and the facts are no human has the answer. God must save us all Iraqis and American's alike.

AND if you think for one minute that saying God Bless America to a country that has killed women and children and innocent civilians - if you think that is any different from what those terrorists said than you are VERY wrong.

759 Wtf?  Fri, May 14, 2004 3:56:45am

Just wanted to say I agree with what was just posted.
To all those who say KILL THEM ALL,NUKE EM, and all the rest you are becoming what you hate. What terrorists have done is deplorable,but they have killed far less innocent people then the USA has in its history.
nearly 4000 people died on September 11 in the name of protecting demorcracy,liberty,and freedom home many innocent people have been killed in IRAQ,AFGANISTAN we don't know becasue the military doesn't count but we sure counted on september 11. Another thing I don't know if anyone remebers this but during the clean up of ground zero the police and firefighters got in a huge fight one day.The police were ordered to stop the firefighters from going into the site because there "job" was done which was to recover the gold in the basement of the WTC which was done the previous day however the rescue workers wanted to recover all the remains that they could and eventually had there way. Can you belive that who order the police to stop them?And where was Bush on Septmeber 11 he is the only one that could have ordered the planes to be shot down and he didn't give the order.To say America is good and Islam is Evil is a very simplistic way to see the world.

760 Beth  Fri, May 14, 2004 4:22:32am

I COMPLETELY agree with Meg...

. LOOK IN THE MIRROR. Just because a group of fanatics are crazy and disgusting enough to carry such a crime, does NOT mean all Muslims or Arabs are capable of doing so..(do you people know there are countries in the Middle East that are non-Arab??probably not)

I lost a dear friend on 9/11 but guess what? I still feel sympathy for Iraqi, Afghani and people who are suffering as well. Why don't we take a look at the Iraqi people who were going about their daily lives when the US "by mistake" bombed their homes?? YOU don't care because they are different from us and you don't see them as human..HOW SAD..

761 BETH  Fri, May 14, 2004 4:28:50am

I think DANNY M AND COLIN are sitting in their trailer park on a $2.99 Walmart special drinking some cheap ass beer..Nice comments..I think you should be tortured instead of innocents like Nick Berg!

762 Smit  Fri, May 14, 2004 5:08:48am

MegWtf?Beth - I'm just happy that you know where the Ctrl key, and that you didn't apply Caps Lock gratuitously.

The key to being happy in these times is low expectations.

763 Mark  Fri, May 14, 2004 5:09:18am

#668 Muslim:

I can see that everyone wants to blame the problems of the world on Islam. If it makes you feel better, then do so.

I don't think anyone has blamed the problems of the world on Islam. But there are certain specific problems we are dealing with that are caused by a percentage of the Islamic population who are fanatics. These are real problems, life-threatening problems, and they must be dealt with.

We Americans can't easily identify who these enemies are. They don't wear uniforms; they hide their identities (like the cowards that hid their faces as they murdered Nick Berg) and sneak into our countries or kidnap our citizens overseas with the goal of trying to destroy our civilization. We have a right to defend ourselves, and if your co-religionists are going to conduct a guerilla war to destroy Western society then it is unavoidable that the rest of you are going to suffer under a cloud of suspicion.

I have become convinced that the best way to keep peace (and diversity) in the world is for people to live in their own countries of origin. Muslims, stay in muslim lands. If you don't like aspects of your society, change it there. Don't bring it to my country. We can be good friends and visit other countries and even study in other countries, but make your life in your own. Islamic fanatics are angry because the West has intruded into their countries and changed aspects of the culture. Most posters in this forum are angry with muslims because some muslims come to Western countries to live and commit atrocities and to try to change our culture (like those in Michigan who want to start broadcasting a call to prayer over a loudspeaker five times a day).

Separation does not mean hate. It doesn't mean bigotry. It's just common sense. The hate and friction and violence in the world is almost all caused by people of different cultures being forced to live in the same country/society with people of a different culture, or people's cultures being threatened by invasion from other cultures. Stay in your own country. "Good fences make good neighbors." The hate started when people didn't stay in their own country.

The US should leave the Middle East and stop involving itself in Israel's fights. The muslims and arabs should get out of the West and go fix their own countries. The muslims will have to have their own equivalent of the Protestant Reformation before they are ready for democracy and liberty; we in the West can't fix their culture for them.

764 DP111  Fri, May 14, 2004 5:29:56am

710 Muslim

Did I claim to be God's prophet? I dont even believe in God, god or whatever. And I dont care what you believe in. That is a matter for your conscience. As far as I'm concerned, what consenting adults believe in, or practice in private, is simply their own business. You can believe in what you like or practice what you like, from burning effigies to having any type of activity. But you bring it into the public domain, like shouting out that your god is the greatest in the public domain, then I object. Your god is not the greatest and you have no proof of it. You cant even prove he exists. It is just a belief.

You parrot my statements. Beliefs in god, Gods are different because they are a human constructions. If they were identifying a single entity, they would have some commonality. But none exists between allah, God, Brahma or any other that I can think of.

Christanity, which derives from the New Testament, is essentially pacifist. The Crusades though were a defensive war against a militant and aggressive Islam, as it invaded and subjugated Christian territory in the ME.
The Inquisition was shameful part of Christian history. But in all this, the violence was not part of the message of Christ. It did not emanate from the teachings of Jesus. Islam OTH is quite a different beast altogether. Violence, mass murder is part and parcel of the message of the koran and its chief propagandist, mohamed, was exemplary in carrying out what allah told him.

The sad thing is that inquisition in Islam is still prevalent, as any who are critical of islam are said to have blasphemed and put to death. Blasphemy is still a capital crime in virtually all Muslim nations. The Inquisition is alive and well in Islam and legally codified.

Evil ideologies??? You're neither a God nor a Prophet, who are you to proclaim it as an evil ideology. It's okay for coallition troops to kill civillians but when it's a Muslim then it becomes a front page story. Why the double standards??

Ah but you said

okay, since you claim to be God's spokesperson on this earth by claiming

Never mind.
Who am I to proclaim that Islam is an evil ideology? A human being, thats who I am. No prophet, no gods spokesperson. And I dont claim that Islam is evil. Any reasonable person reading the koran critically will do so as well. Any book that cries for the murder Jews and Christians or make them submit till they know they are submitted and pay the dhimmi tax, is an evil ideology. Any book that cries out for the murder of idolators (Hindus), is an evil book.

This in itself wouldnt be so bad if muslims just believed in this privately. But when they practice what they believe, then it becomes a public domain issue. I dont care what other good things there are in the koran (in fact there is hardly of any worth, and the ones there are, are trivial), the mass murder and genocide advocated by the koran, negates any other message.

As for mohamed and his life, how he practised hudna, slaughtered the jews of mecca and arabia, and made a gift of Jewish women to his followers, is all a matter of islamic historical record. Taqqiya wont work anymore. You may follow them up in the

www.faithfreedom. org

www.seculariseislam.org

In one matter, I will grant. Islam is like no other religion. It is the only one that requires the believer to slaughter kaffirs in the name of allah. Truly detestable.

It is a matter of great shame for humanity, that such an ideology as Islam, still persists to this day and some say its numbers are increasing.
The only hope I have, is that this is an abberrration, and soon we will all recover our senses and restore our moral compass. Muslims are the first victims of islam as it shut their minds off to any further questioning, as muslims are taught, that anything of worth is already in the koran. Nothing could be further from the truth.

To modernise, muslims have to start reading the koran critically and not just by rote or with a mind of total belief. Muslims will have to start practising blasphemy without fear of being put to death by the law or by some other bigotted fanatic. Just remember that Christianity in practice was reformed because people in Europe started to blaspheme, inspite of the fear of the Inquisition. Muslims will have to start doing so as well if they wish to bring their religion to the 17th century.

Moreover we live in a PC world. If someone decides to take the koran to court in the US or Europe, it may well get banned on the grounds of hate writing.

Take care. Don't believe everything you read in ancient 'holy' texts. They were written long ago and for a different age.

PS. The imam of the Grand mosque in Mecca has some nice things to say about Jews.

[Link: www.nationalreview.com...]

There is really no point in claiming that the said imam of the holiest shrine of islam, has no clue about the koran.

765 american errorist (we really hate)  Fri, May 14, 2004 5:42:23am

ur all a bunch of racist idiots. they beheaded a few americans, we killed a few thousand of theirs, yeh they're worse huh. ever see anything on the thousands of pounds of depleted uranium were dumping there with our anti tank shells and the horrifying effects its having on their babies??? i guarentee you if you see any of these pictures you'll want to behead bush yourself.

766 Charles  Fri, May 14, 2004 6:04:26am

#765 was posted from someone at the University of Wisconsin in Madison.

767 Thom™  Fri, May 14, 2004 6:07:03am

#738 zulubaby

This thread is like troll-paradise.

Seriously. Some of the dumbest posts I've ever read are by this sudden influx of ninnies.

768 Thom™  Fri, May 14, 2004 6:08:34am

LOL. DEPLETED URAAANIUM!!!

769 Tim Aguilar  Fri, May 14, 2004 6:22:47am

it's much easier to criticise than to put up ones' own opinions for review.

770 Tim Aguilar  Fri, May 14, 2004 6:29:40am

i've many posts on this thread that are ripe for picking.
it seems very few people know how to rebutt point by point anymore. it's a true failing on the part of gen xers', the epidemic of ADD.

771 Thom™  Fri, May 14, 2004 6:42:27am

Uh, Tim? You are one of the biggest ninnies.

read it again, i said you were victims of a deliberate dumbing down of america, yes, YOU.

LOL. O da irony!

772 zorkmidden  Fri, May 14, 2004 6:43:14am