Its a mad, mad world...

Who knows?

On top of the other highly atypical stuff. This is going to be one for the conspiracy crowd to chew on forever.

The Berg murder story gets stranger by the day. Couple this with some of the lunacy from the DUMBies and one can be forgiven for wondering if there's still yet more revelations to come.

How long will it take the fraudi royal bigots and their fellow murderbots to claim that this confirms the zionists were behind 9/11.

Judging by his father, Berg isn't worth a second thought.

Oh good. The crowd over at IVIEWs already think the CIA or the Jews did it, so this is really going to drive them nuts.

My first thought about Berg was that he was idealistic, naive, a little amped up by the adventure of being over there. I've met a lot young people like that working for missionary/relief agencies around the world in my travels.

I still think those things, but now I'm thinking that rather than being just in the wrong place at the wrong time, he may have carelessly made some wrong connections.

I doubt seriously he was conciously communicating with Al Qaeda operatives, but his do-good naivitte may have led him to make some friends who themselves ran in wrong circles.

Doesn't sound like he was randomly kidnapped out of a crowd. He was running in the wrong circles, probably without realizing it.

Might not hear this story again, Fox just reported that they both attended the same college, that Berg gave his account to a friend who gave the information to others. Not a direct link. Wonder if that will ever be mentioned again.

Don't forget what happened to poor Richard Jewel and the guy in Portland who turns out not to have any direct link, but an odd set of cirmstances.

"one notorious al Qaeda operative"

Sorry, Moussouai does not fit that descrioption, IMO. He's a raving loon who was so stupid he got himself locked up in **mid-2001**, i.e. in the days when folks in this country essentially looked the other way at all manner of Islamic radicals. How incompetent can you get?

Its the old we are all six steps away from anyone meme.
This is a strang tale .
we live in weird times.I will bet it gets stranger yet.
Ciao

I agree, he might have got conned into a business deal with people he was too trusting to think more about. Trusting people often get taken advantage of. Con artists can see a soft-touch coming a mile away.

As we all should know by now, there are no coinicidences.

Where did Nick Berg go to college? When was he in college?

We know that Nick Berg liked to travel abroad and have adventures. Did Nick Berg ever access his college account from a Middle Eastern country? Did he do so pprior to Moussaoui's arrest?

It is possible that Nick Berg used the account and password (maybe to check webmail) from a Middle East country. There, the username/password could have been intercepted by a criminal gang or by Al Qaeda terrorists. The username/password could have then been sold or transferred to Moussaoui.

#8 Imperialist

Yours would certainly be a cogent explanation, I hope it is still possible to piece together clues (travels, meetings, etc.) to corroborate it ...

Judging by his father, Berg isn't worth a second thought.

Nice.

Judging by his father, Berg isn't worth a second thought.

Why are you judging him by his father? Especially since he disagreed with his father about the war?

Why not judge him by this?

Judging by his father, Berg isn't worth a second thought

Judging by your comment, you're not worth a second thought.

"His dad is saying some dumb stuff, so who cares if he had his head cut off!"

Fine moral reasoning there.

And what I find REALLY strange is that Berg's father just said that Al Queda did not know what they were doing--that they murdered their best friend. Only a freakin' terrorist is a friend of Al Queda. Something is queer here!

Berg had caught the FBI's attention before.

Speaking to reporters outside his West Chester, Pa., home Thursday, Berg's father, Michael, said his son was investigated by the FBI more than a year ago over contact he had with a terrorism suspect while he was a student at the University of Oklahoma.
Berg's father said his son was dragged into that investigation because he allowed an acquaintance he rode the bus with to use his computer.

In what may be Berg's last contact before his kidnapping, he checked out of Baghdad's shabby Fanar Hotel on April 10 around 7 a.m., according to the receptionist. American businessman Andrew Robert Duke and the staff there said he left some of his belongings in storage, with plans to return.

"Inshallah (God willing), I will be back in a few days," the receptionist said Berg told her.

# 6 ajf

OMG! from the article --

"a seething Michael Berg"

Deliberate by al-Reuters???

If he was really up to something fishy, why be wandering around on his own, so carelessly? If there are connections, this is someone who was totally conned.

So far no one he knew ever said... hum... ya know, I sort of wondered about that guy... and no one said the other cliche... he was a quiet guy who stayed to himself.

I've been duped a few times so I speak from that position. Trusting people who never should be trusted.

Kat, you hava a link for that?

#13 Bob:

Yeah, I've seen that: young people backpacking around, using internet cafe's and unsecured computers in pesiones... not hard to imagine passwords, etc getting stolen and used in some al qaeda "clearinghouse" of stolen id's...

still, the more i read some other comments, the more i think there's a missing piece of this puzzle...

don't doubt these evil m*f*ckers glee in decapitating him... just, why him? why not any of the other hostages they have or could take?

#21 Yes
[Link: apnews.excite.com...]

11   NeilVanEerde -

I'm one step away from thousands of famous people, who I have never met.

A white house correspondent cousin and brother is in "the biz."

He said "inshallah'??? This just gets weirder and weirderer.

Zaccarias Moussaoui???

Is this the man arrested approx. one month prior to 9-11?

If the government had been doing its job, could have 9-11 been prevented?

Lets see.

You arrest a foreign national linked to a terrorist group who is getting flying lessons and you allow him to sit in jail for one month.

One month.

-sigh

#6 ajf

Judging by his father, Berg isn't worth a second thought.

That is one of the most reprehensible sentiments I've seen expressed on this blog in a long time.

Do you have any family? Should we judge them by the shameful post you just placed?

I have a friend whose brother is in jail for murder. My friend is a good person.

And you are a piece of shit.

"U.S. officials say the FBI questioned Berg in 2002 after a computer password Berg used in college turned up in the possession of Zaccarias Moussaoui ..."

The Berg family is implicating the FBI in some type of wrongdoing.

Now the FBI wants to play "duck and cover".

I guess the FBI will be going through the Berg families IRS tax returns next in order to keep the distraught father quiet.

OT, sorry, but sickening (found via LT Smash)--"Americas Dumbest Soldiers". Apparently you're supposed to vote on which American soldier had the "dumbest death." Says LT Smash, quite rightly:

To the sick bastards who thought it would be funny to make fun of deceased servicemen and mock the pain of those left behind, I have only one question:

What is it like, not to have a soul?

FWIW --

N. Berg took at least one class at U. Oklahoma -- date currently unknown

"Crazy Zac" M. arrived in U.S. in 2/01, was in a OK flight school before the one in MN (where he was atrrested)

This newspaper article makes Berg sound like a naive fellow who got in with the wrong crowd, confirming what somebody said above.

[Link: www.rantburg.com...]

Weird shit happens like this all the time. Dr. John Lilly called it the Earth Coincidence Control Office

#6 ajf 5/13/2004 04:09PM PST

"Judging by his father, Berg isn't worth a second thought."

Don't pass the sins of the father onto the son.

Please use what little compassion you have.

#25

He said "inshallah'??? This just gets weirder and weirderer.

Not necessarily. He was just being polite within the context of the culture.

Someone help me out here: did i hear on Fox news earlier that Berg the Younger was actually pro-war/pro-bush???

His dad obviously isn't. While I disagree with his dad, the poor man just saw or heard about his son's head getting sawed off on the internet.

give the man a break.

of course, i would rather his grief and anger was directed at the evil m*f*ckers who did this to his son, to daniel pearl, 9/11, etc

I know a lot of cops and wouldn't believe a word they say, FBI are worse. Those guys will die before they admit they were wrong. If anyone is to blame in this horror, it might be the FBI... I expect to hear a knock at my door any moment now.

DS -- piss off -- Crazy Zac can barely string together two coherent sentences -- KSM was probably wise to give him little or zero actual operational info. -- which may or may not have been extractable by the feds in Aug. of 01 anyway ...

and re: the FBI and the Berg's taxes -- you need to beef up the tinfoil on your hat just a bit ...

GAZE

#27 Grayp

If you want to see a similiar schmuck posting, blaming Nick Berg zt'l, go to the Al-Jazeera thread, and look at 'Lawrence Schmerel' postings.

Okay, now the question is: was the bus acquaintance of Nick Berg who apparently stole his password none other than Zaccharias Moussaoui himself?

25 wrote:

He said "inshallah'???

Well, it wouldn't be smart to say "Shalom" in Baghdad, would it?

I don't think it's really that weird. "Inshallah" appears to be a standard Arab coming-and-going type of phrase. If you're traveling around a foreign country, you're going to want to pick up at least a few commonplace expressions in the language of the people who live there. Sprinkling a little Arabic in his speech doesn't mean he was a closet jihadi-lover.

#1 FH 5/13/2004 04:03PM PST

"Its a mad, mad world..."

Unfortunately, this killing is simply another dath in the long line killings and killings to come.

Saw C-SPAN last Saturday morning.

The person who wrote "Shock and Awe" was on for approx 45 minutes.

He predicted a very dark future for America and the world if the Bush adminstration continued to wage this war on terrorism in this contiued idiotic manner.

I encourage LGF posters to go to the C-SPAN web site and listen to his Q+A.

#35 Imperialist Running-Dog Aggressor

You heard right. There are articles on the Al Jazeera thread.

Too many coincidences for OJ not to be the "real killer" but I know from my own experiences in life that some very very mind-blowers happen and not so infrequently at that.

#34 grayp

I'm with you -- people who hang out with Canadians start saying "eh," people who hang out w/ Southerners start saying "y'all," etc. ...

{ducks for expected flames from making such broad generalizations}

CNN is trying hard to blame the US for this man's death. Are they frigging nuts. First we deserved 911, now we killed Berg. Is there no blame for the musliminazis?
Vote:[Link: www.cnn.com...]

Over at Indymedia UK, they're claiming, simultaneously:

o Berg was an Israeli agent (the 'Zionists-under-my-bed approach')
o The video is fake (the '9/11 never happened' approach)
o The Nick Berg in the video was not the Nick Berg seen in photos (the 'Saddam/Osama's many doubles' approach)
o Berg can't have been a civilian in Iraq because no American or Jew would dare (the 'pride in Islamic ethnic cleansing' approach)
o Berg was involved in setting up mind control antennas (the 'tinfoil hat' approach)
o Berg was killed because he found out about mind control antennas (the 'tinfoil hat: produced by Jerry Bruckheimer' approach)
o Berg was pro-war and deserved to die (the 'peace for all' approach)
o Berg was anti-war and was killed by Bush/Rumsfeld etc (the 'global conspiracy' approach)

What's behind it all? If you're faced with the sheer evil of what you support manifesting itself in such a horrific way as in the beheading video... use the Palestinian approach to reality, i.e. what happened isn't important if you keep up a steady stream of propaganda.

One article, on the atrocity, has over 50 comments (has someone linked to it?). As I regularly (along with a few like minded allies) take these moonbats to task on Indymedia UK, I can assure you that even 10 comments on an article is exceptional. Usually only an article concerning a petty squabble between two equally ridiculous Trotskyite fringe groups gets more than one or two comments. Some of the 'Beheading of US civilian' comments are really nasty, even for Indymedia - not 'nuke them' type sentiments, but truly sadistic.

#28

Please explain that. Expand upon your theory. Connect the dots for me and paint in the blank spaces, please.

Man! Can the people in this administration be so utterly incapable of telling the freakin truth about anything at all?

[Link: www.timesdaily.com...]

Diplomat's E-Mails Show Berg in Custody
By JASON STRAZIUSO
Associated Press Writer

A U.S. diplomatic official in Iraq told the family of slain American Nicholas Berg that he was being detained by the U.S. military when they lost contact with him for several days in early April, according to e-mails provided by the family Thursday.

U.S. government officials have said Berg, who was found dead last weekend in Baghdad, was detained by Iraqi police and was never in the custody of American forces.

He is believed to have been kidnapped within days of his release by either Iraqi police or coalition forces, and later beheaded by militants who videotaped the slaying.

To back its claims that Berg was in U.S. custody, the family showed The Associated Press an April 1 e-mail from Beth A. Payne, the U.S. consular officer in Iraq.

"I have confirmed that your son, Nick, is being detained by the U.S. military in Mosul. He is safe. He was picked up approximately one week ago. We will try to obtain additional information regarding his detention and a contact person you can communicate with directly," the e-mail said.

In two e-mails later that day, Payne wrote that she was still trying to find a local contact for the family.

Berg's brother, David Berg, called on the government to come clean about its contacts with the slain American before he died. The family has blamed the government for keeping him in custody for too long while anti-American violence escalated in Iraq.

#36 the people to blame for this horror are the one's who committed the attrocity. And they are the only ones.

EMO!!! LOLOL!!!

Is it worth a $5.00 bet he was working for al Qaeda as a non Muslim operative, and when they were done with him, disposed of him as they would all of us...

My tin foil hat must have blown off there for a sec...

Mike7411

#44 Buckaroo - and those of us born in the south who live up north - in NYC at least, say

"youse'all"

It's not surprising for Berg to say "Inshallah" to a hotel clerk; this is a common way of speaking in Islamic countries. Most people who spend any time in a foreign country pick up such mannerisms and figures of speech.

From an email Berg sent to a friend, while Berg was in Iraq

"Word had spread due to the presence of certain items amongst my stuff that I was Israeli," Berg wrote. "So I felt a bit like Arlo Guthrie walking into a jail full of mother stabbers and father rapers as an accused litterbug."

Heheheheh, funny guy =)

Ny Nana

Hello, dear, how are you?

I've been on that thread all day. I saw all those posts. I'm not yet quite sure where on what side of the line I fall - except it probably was not a good idea to piss of zbabe unless you're locked and loaded.

I think he may have chosen his verbiage poorly. 'Naive' and 'delusions of immortality' may have been better than 'asshole'.

#6 on this thread, however, is on my list.

#52 rw

I did not know that!
:-)

#8 Imperialist Running-Dog Aggressor 5/13/2004 04:10PM PST

We are all wonder what is the real story.

Lets look at the lawsuit that the family filed against Rumsfeld.

Lets look at the notes of the FBI-Berg interview.

Lets look at the Berg passport and visa.

#9 teacake 5/13/2004 04:11PM PST

Like so many things surrounding 9-11 - so many twist and turns.

#10 Buckaroo 5/13/2004 04:12PM PST

"How incompetent can you get?" Are you refrring to a) Zaccarias Moussaoui or b) US intelligence and law enforcement services or c) both?

#11 NeilVanEerde 5/13/2004 04:13PM PST

So true, so true!!!

#13 Bob 5/13/2004 04:14PM PST

You are right. Will the FBI release the info on its interviews with Berg?

#18 Kat 5/13/2004 04:15PM PST

You are blowing my mind. Where did you get this info?

what does "computer password" mean anyway?

password for what?

his email account?

launch codes?

how did the fbi know berg's "password" in 2002?

gracias

#41 DoubleStandard

You do alot of criticizing but how would you fight the war? Include details please.

I just jumped over from the previous thread where I was taking a beating for calling Nick Burg a stupid asshole.

I told the crowd, who apparently seem ready to cannonize Nick Berg as "Saint Nick", to wait for more information as this story came out about Nick Berg.

Now it appears this is the tip of the iceberg. This story has got legs . . . and they are wearing rollerskates.

Fox News is reporting the link, but it says Berg's email was given to moussouaiouiei..whatever... by a third party while they were both in Oklahoma (and let's not even go there).

There is no actual connection. I personally can not confirm that there is no link, but it would too much if he was part of the 911 incident - even tangentially. I really hope not.

#44 Buckaroo

LOL! Listen, there's a whole list of pronunciations that are found only in my hometown, Pittsburgh, on the web somewhere, one of those "You know you're from Pittsburgh if..." things

#37 Buckaroo 5/13/2004 04:34PM PST

I am not a beliver in conspiracy theories.

But, you must admit there are many unanswered questions.

Don't you want to know the truth.

Moishe Pipick (pipick lol)

Fox news reported he gave the email account to some other kid who passed it around. That might be the last we hear of that.

#51 Mike,

No, I think the tinfoil hat is scrunched down pretty tight.

Look, here's what we can say, for sure:

1. The subhuman filth who cut his head off are the ONLY ones responsible for cutting off his head.

2. Anyone who wanders around a warzone takes his life into his hands by risking that sub human filth will pick him up. Nobody made him go there or stay there without protection, without apparent purpose. He really rolled the dice, came up snake eyes.

3. The organizational mess of a warzone will lead to US government types losing this guy or miscommuicating about his whereabouts. This may not be "lying," just a giant cluster-f*ck.

4. There was probably something about this guy or his actions which singled him out for particular jeopardy... and that's what may trickle out.

Yossarian: Good G-d, that's foul. Lt. Smash is right: those people are soulless.

#45 Kat wrote:

CNN is trying hard to blame the US for this man's death. Are they frigging nuts. First we deserved 911, now we killed Berg. Is there no blame for the musliminazis?

I think the media are overplaying their hand already with the prison abuse scandal. Trying to blame America for Berg's death will push people over the edge. Mr. Berg notwithstanding, I simply don't believe the American people will buy that obvious B.S., any more than they bought the line that we were responsible for 9/11.

Someone (I think it was Andrew Sullivan) pointed out that one of Bush's greatest assets is that his enemies tend to make total frothing idiots out of themselves. Personally, I expect to see that clip of Ted Kennedy saying that the US is running the Iraqi torture chambers now to get a lot of use - in Republican campaign ads.

and still... what does any thing about his business deals have to do with him being butchered? He deserved it? He alone brought it on himself?

58 Moishe Pipick

"how did the fbi know berg's "password" in 2002?"

Because the FBI knows everything. Now keep up damnit...

./end LLL rant
./end Right Wing inside dope

Mike7411

#61 Lawrence Schmuck

Well, you are an idiot. There are people already on this thread who have been watching you all day. Speaking for myself, I just posted that I hadn't made up my mind about you.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Now fuck off.

I think the Massoui/Berg connection is a weird coincidence. Berg seems like he was eccentric guy who would let some weirdo he met on the bus use his computer.

Berg is also a JEW so I highly doubt he would be interested in associating with terrorists in anyway. Unless his plan was to get kidnapped on purpose and kill the people holding him with his Kung Fu.

#66

this would mean berg shared an account with an AQ member?

or others were surreptiously sending emails from his account? Why?

Nothing makes sense to me.

#63 grayp:

Grew up in Jeannette, PA.

#60 Dar ul Harbarian 5/13/2004 04:46PM PST

Very appropriate question

Terrorism has many definitions throughout the world.

The common thread defining this word is the "use of force or the threat to use force against a civilians".

Terrorism is a tactic and/or strategy used by individuals (i.e. Carlos the Jackal), groups (i.e. militant Islamic
fundamentalist), or countries (i.e. the United States in Vietnam utilizing free-fire zones, Operation Pheonix, carpet bombing, etc.) to achieve some stated goal.

But, the violence primarily results in civilian/non-combatant injuries and death.

Al-Qeda has tactical objectives (i.e. removing U.S. military troops from Saudi Arabia) and a strategic objective (i.e. an Islamic world).

Terrorism, the tactic and the strategy, is utilized to achieve these goals.

But, even if the Al-Qeda demands are met, the core group of Al-Qeda believers will always continue along the path of terrorism. They can never be persuaded to stop. So, what can you do?

History proves that the best way to "combat" terrorism is to remove the "root causes". By eliminating the root causes, the terrorist lose their political, "moral" and economic support from the population and "die off".

History supplies to us numerous examples of those who fought terror with terror and those who fought the "root causes" of terror.

More importantly, history shows the former as losers and the latter as winners.

Just a simple note from a neighbor who can read, critically think and understand the lessons of history.

Also, this belief is taught at US War colleges and senior intelligence courses.

Like I said earlier, please review last Saturday morning C-SPAN for the author of "Shock and Awe".

67 Imperialist Running-Dog Aggressor

Wasn't for a sec blaming anybody but the soulless scum who cut his throat...

But how he got there maybe a long and strange tale...

Mike7411

#67

4. There was probably something about this guy or his actions which singled him out for particular jeopardy... and that's what may trickle out.

No mystery there...

Another thing about this email from the woman in the US counsel office:

Your government is NOT responsible for keeping track of you, or taking care of you, in any foreign country.

I've traveled a bit in "dangerous" countries and was always aware that I was on my own, and the days when being an American proetected you are, obviously, over with. That to the nth power somewhere like Iraq.

Who held him, where he went, which cops or checkposts or whatever that he bumbled around or through before or after temporary custody, the US government did NOT have a responsibility to keep track of him.

The simplest and best response to the Berg family and all the others who blame Berg's death on the US government is this.

First, the US government offered Nick Berg a free plane ticket back to America and told him he'd be a fool not to take it. He said 'no thanks' and was soon thereafter kidnapped by the terrorists. If the USG wanted Nick Berg dead, they wouldn't have offered him a free plane ticket.

Second, Nick Berg was killed by terrorists, not by the US government.

BTW, we are at frickin' war with the terrorists. They are not our 'friends.' They are not 'misunderstood.' They are stone cold murderers armed to the teeth. We are engaging them in Iraq because this is a frickin' WAR and Iraq is a frickin BATTLEFIELD. Nick Berg did not get that because he chose to shut his ears to the truth. Unfortunately, he ended up captured by the enemy, who butchered him like an animal to further their propaganda war.

Got it, kemosabe?

61 Lawrence Schmerel 5/13/2004 04:46PM PST

I don't know what you said.

But, I believe that you may say whatever you wish as long as you don't promote violence

#75 Ann

Well, daaang!

Born in Uniontown, lived in Hopwood, moved to and grew up in the 'burg.

Ok

I can play conspiracy theory like the best of them. I don't take my theories seriously, in the least, however.

Here is my theory

Nick Berg was one of zillions of idealistic young Americans with a trusting nature (I may be wrong. I know nothing of his nature but what I read on the internet). By chance, he came into contact with an AQ cell. They somehow got the password and gave it to Moussaoui.

Years later, drinking latte or beer with one of these AQ moles, he is given the suggestion to go to Iraq to make it a better place. He says "cool" and sets off to make a fortune and help the world. The AQ sleeper sends a message to Zarqawi that an easy mark is coming their way. Look for him in such or such a place in March or April.

Zarqawi catches Berg and makes use of the easy kill.

#32

I can't get your link to work, but I did find the Earth Coincidence Control Office (in Japan.)

Funny stuff! And it explains it all.

DoubleStandard, why is you people always claim not to be conspiracy freaks but then you spread conspiracy theories and alot of *wink, wink* innuendo. Then when someone asks a legit question on how you would proceed all we get is non-denial denials and answers in the form of questions. A question is not an answer unless you're on a quiz show. Is it any wonder no one listens to you people?

Here's my password:

puffinstuff72

(Don't give it to the terrorists!)

#65 DS

I you don't believe in them, they why do you toss out inflammatory questions and statements that make you sound like Fox Mulder?

BTW, I meant in #10 that "Crazy Zac" was the incompetent one for getting snagged at a time when you could run along Constitution Ave. in D.C. screaming "Allu Akbar" while waving a machete and people wouldn't think to be afraid ...

One could really go to town with the conspiracy theories here. Like--Oklahoma City. Isn't that where Tim McVeigh blew up that government building? And weren't there supposed to be still unidentified "others" involved? What if Moussaoui and/or Berg had something to do with it? Etc., etc.

At the end of the day, though, you know that conspiracy aficionados are going to blame it on the Mossad.

Gee, what a coinkidink.

Sounds like the tinfoils are having fun with this one. When are the black helicopter and chemtrails groups coming in? It's bound to happen.

Double Satandard:

"Terrorism, the deliberate creation and exploitation of fear for bringing about political change. All terrorist acts involve violence."

From Encarta.

Nothing about bombing rice paddies during a declared war in there

Yeah, how long was Crazy Zac in Oklahoma and when did he know it? Wait a minute...!

ANd like I said before... how did he fall into the hands of the butchers in the first place after being held??? THat is a huge question to be pondered.

#64 IronFist - thanks for the wishes - if you want to know more, send me an e-mail.

Things are not always as they seem

Try to accept what you see, not see what you want.

#60 Dar ul Harbarian 5/13/2004 04:46PM PST

The problem now is that the US has lost legitimacy and credibility.

The Bush administration has not demostrated to Americans, Iraqis and to world any viable Iraqi WMD's.

The Bush administration had not demostrated to Americans, Iraqi and to the world any substantive link between the Saddam government and Al Queda.

The Bush adminstration then move the goal post to "freedom", "democracy" and "morality" and now this prison fiasco the confrim the perception of many Iraqis that the US motives for invading Iraq are invalid, illegal, in moral, etc.

You know, there is something really weird about the whole idea of biz folks going to Iraq to get reconstruction contracts:

The place is still a battlezone. Like going to Normandy to get a reconstruction contract on D+10 when the troops are still fighting in the hedgerows, and running around with a briefcase and biz cards.

Then you wonder why some Nazi's have you on a train to Stalag 17.

This administration is in denial that the war is not over.

I don't say that b/c I'm against it, I want to see us roll out the Marines, the AC-130 Spectre's, the MOABs and FINISH IT!

#76 DoubleStandard

What would you say is the "root cause"

#84

interesting theory.

#88 Buckaroo

Speaking of Fox Mulder...

#87 Moishe: Don't laugh about people giving out their passwords:

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

More than 70% of people would reveal their computer password in exchange for a bar of chocolate, a survey has found. It also showed that 34% of respondents volunteered their password when asked without even needing to be bribed.

A second survey found that 79% of people unwittingly gave away information that could be used to steal their identity when questioned. Security firms predict that the lax security practices will fuel a British boom in online identity theft.

e-mails from Nicolas Berg in Iraq

Read, and then weep. He believed he could do good in this world.
I believe in him.

The instant political spin on this story was breathtaking. Makes you wonder if Kerry didn't grab the kid from a swift boat. Oh, those were the days, .50 chattering...

#13

"There, the username/password could have been intercepted by a criminal gang or by Al Qaeda terrorists. The username/password could have then been sold or transferred to Moussaoui. "

Wouldn't it be easier to just go to Yahoo and sign up for an account?

#83 grayp:

(: Hopped out of Hopewood?

Glad that you are here.

Dar al Harbarian

I think you might be on to something there.

Nick Berg may have been an idealistic young American with a trusting nature (Or just fool, I may be wrong). He might have shared some of his dear old dad's idealism. Idealism comes in a rainbow of colors, you know.

#100 scar

Yeah, saw a couple wire reports about it. Interesting that "they" haven"t been back since that one encounter ...

Actually, as Glenn Beck said on his show, what's **really** interesting is --

The Mexicans have an Air Force?! Who knew?

#97  - not really. It is a huge area and the need for new business is ripe for the picking. An entrapanures dream... and my dream of being able to spell will never happen in this lifetime.

#89 scaramouche

It's not a conspiracy "theory." It's a conspiracy.

Al Qaeda is built on the leaderless resistance model. (Look it up.) It is centered around an ideology. There is no membership list of Al Qaeda. It's a "just do it" kind of organization.

The traditional model of conspiracy is that there is a membership list controlled by a leader. In this new model, there is no one leader.

Al Qaeda is an ideology that holds sway with stateless militants as well as the dictatorships of Iran and Syria. It has significant support within the governments of Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, but does not control either government.

The OKC bombing was an Islamic hit that Saddam financed and pushed. McVeigh chose to be executed because he could not bear the shame of having betrayed his country. Saddam teamed with Osama to carry off the 9/11 attacks.

OTOH, this Nick Berg incident does not appear to be a part of any grand conspiracy other than Zarqawi's brutish attempt at propaganda. Berg was a naive do-good American who was exploited in OKC for his password and in Iraq for his head. Nick Berg is a victim, like the people in the WTC.

98 Dar ul Harbarian

Please stop talking to DS, it just makes it hang around longer.

Thanks

Yeah funny he would come back to the hotel at 10pm at night...with bags of beer and mineral water...

#76 says:

"History proves that the best way to "combat" terrorism is to remove the "root causes". By eliminating the root causes, the terrorist lose their political, "moral" and economic support from the population and "die off".

History supplies to us numerous examples of those who fought terror with terror and those who fought the "root causes" of terror."

I notice you didn't bother to name any of these examples.

Moishe Pipick - the story was he gave the school account info to a friend who passed it around. Kids do that stuff. Kids want things that can't be traced to them from the internet. Not a huge leap of weirdness in this case.

#96 DoubleStandard

The Bush administration has not demostrated to Americans, Iraqis and to world any viable Iraqi WMD's.

Wrong.

Read David Kay's report. Saddam was alot smarter than you and the war opponants in his WMD program. He did not need stockpiles of WMD. He had the recipies in his rolodex, ready to cook up when it suited his purpose. Just read the damn thing. Pleanty of casus belli in that document.

The Bush administration had not demostrated to Americans, Iraqi and to the world any substantive link between the Saddam government and Al Queda.

Wrong.

Why is AQ fighting tooth and nail for us to fail if it wasn't important to him. Powell outlined the case of the relationship between Saddam and Al-Zarqawi and lo and behold...there he is sawing off jews heads and killing our troops.

The Bush adminstration then move the goal post to "freedom", "democracy" and "morality" and now this prison fiasco the confrim the perception of many Iraqis that the US motives for invading Iraq are invalid, illegal, in moral, etc.

Wrong.

Read the 9/12/02 speech to the UN. Bush made demands on Saddam including the human rights issues.

#102 lamb:

Oh man, I just read those and it breaks your heart.

This kid is like so many I've met (and was, once): a good-hearted, ambitous, friendly-to-a-fault, naive, adventurous young man.

An innocent abroad.

He wanted to see the world, meet and appreciate people from another culture, make friends, make dollars and build his business and his career, help a few folks along the way.

Just tragic.

Here's my challenge to all of you here tonight: does Islamic civilazation create any Nick Bergs who come here with such benign intention? He may not have been worldly-wise enough, but he seems like the kind of young person our culture SHOULD produce.

And he fell into the hands of what their culture produces...

A grieving dad could say anything so we can cut him some slack...but really the Western world has a strange sickness. If the perpetrators of violent acts are non-westerners, they are beyond the pale in being held accountable for their barbarity. They attack us and we are the ones to blame.

#101

#87 Moishe: Don't laugh about people giving out their passwords:

I'm just trying to understand why this is interesting. It may be...I simply don't understand what it would mean for Berg to "have the same password" as ZM. What are the implications if true?

I feel terribly sorry for Berg and his family.

I'm just wondering at the nievity (sp?) of Berg, being an American AND a practicing Jew going and doing business in the heart of an arab country.

I fear Berg is a product of our multi-culti education system that teaches all cultures are equal, and there is no right or wrong, only different points of view.

May he rest in peace.

OT
I'm listening to Hugh Hewitt and he's playingsomething that wont be on the CBS eneving news.

Over in Iraq, the troops erupt into applause at the mention of Sec. Rum and Pres. Bush.

Dyslexics of the world UNTIE!

95 Lawrence Schmerel 5/13/2004 05:04PM PST
Good post. But, remember my hero Ronald Reagan - "trust but verify".

93 teacake 5/13/2004 05:04PM PST
I concur. Too many unknowns.

91 Cam 5/13/2004 05:03PM PST
I concur but also add the important fact that the fear and violence is directed at the civilian population.

"Nothing about bombing rice paddies during a declared war in there"

when the rice paddies were being carpet bombed it was obvious that civilians would be killed. This was an agricultural/agarian culture/society.

89 scaramouche 5/13/2004 05:01PM PST
I concur but what truth is your government willing to tell you about Berg and can it be verified?

88 Buckaroo 5/13/2004 05:00PM PST
Issues of life and death, yours and mine, are bound to be "inflammatory". I want answers just like you. And, who is Fox Mulder?

86 bashir 5/13/2004 04:58PM PST
What "conspiracy theories" have I spread or encouraged. I am simply posing questions. Sorry that I do miss some of the questions thrown to me. I do feel obligated to answer and not to evade. Questioned often missed due to rapid posting and jumping form website to website.

60 Dar ul Harbarian 5/13/2004 04:46PM PST
I hope my answer was satisfactory?

I do ebay for people and they give me their password all the time... now if I wasn't honest ... just a lame example of trust.

A lady gave me her atm pin number when she hired me to do errands... people can be very trusting and its all about who can end up being trusted.

OT
This may sound bizarre but could it be this murder is of the same kindred spirit as the one that happened in Houston last summer?
A young Jew was befriended by a saudi here for his higher education. The saudi broke off contact for quite sometime and then they crossed paths again. The Jewish young man was lured to the saud's apartment with the promise of friendship and some refreshments.
The saud slit his throat after luring him to his apartment.

Berg's murder has similarities. Could it be the Iraq he claimed was a 'friend' is the one who eventually set him up?

113

"Kids do that stuff. Kids want things that can't be traced to them from the internet. Not a huge leap of weirdness in this case. "

Got it. Thanks!

(I guess I don't know too much about stealing other people's internet identities...)

In the interview from outside his home in West Chester, Pennsylvania, a seething Michael Berg also said his 26-year-old son, a civilian contractor, probably would have felt positive, even about his executioners, until the last minute.

"I am sure that he only saw the good in his captors until the last second of his life," Berg said. "They did not know what they were doing. They killed their best friend."

> While I empathize and understand Berg Srs. profound anger and grief, i am very disturbed about these comments...After watching the video and witnessing his sons killers dancing and screaming while cutting offf his head, to suggest that they did not know what they were doing is to essentially vindicate them of his murder...

#109 Bob

The OKC bombing was an Islamic hit that Saddam financed and pushed. McVeigh chose to be executed because he could not bear the shame of having betrayed his country. Saddam teamed with Osama to carry off the 9/11 attacks.

Whoa. I was just riffing. How do you know all this? It all sounds rather dubious to me, especially the part where McVeigh agrees to take the fall for al Qaeda. If he felt so ashamed of betraying his country, wouldn't he want to make sure that the people who were "really" behind the deed were exposed and punished?

#104 Moishe Pipick

Shhh. Not so loud. The terrorists might hear!

;-)

One more thing:

I hear Fox News saying that John Kerry is going out of his way to brag to the media that he has spoken to Nick Berg's dad... in between mentioning that he did, in fact, serve in Vietnam... HOWEVER, Senator Kerry won't tell us what he said, b/c that would be undignfied. However, he did speak to Mr. Berg, and serve in Vietnam...

What a prick. They guys in the beheading video probably had Kerry for Prez buttons on...

Berg going to Iraq to find business doesn't make any sense. He was in the communications tower business and those contacts are being done here or in Europe, not in Iraq. If he was looking for work as a laborer on a tower job, those jobs are going to Iraqis.

I heard Nick Berg's Father is the newest Dem. Spokesperson.

You see Zarqawi really didn't know young Nick was a person with "humanitarian" ambitions for the Iraqi people. Otherwise he wouldn't have been murdered. Instead of course, it's Bush and Rumsfeld's fault because they served him up to the terrorists.(What?)

I feel sorry for his family, but even more sorry about the wretched Lies his propagating father is using to tarnish his cause. I have no doubt we will see him on his soap box at the Democratic National Convention this summer along side Michael Moore, Wesley Clark, Richard Clarke, and all the other loser scum that put my nation, my family, and friends in harms way by giving aid and comfort to the worst enemy this nation has ever faced.

Somebody please publish the home addresses of these fucko traitors so that I may burn their houses down after November.

As for Abu Musab Zarqawi. Rage on...we will find you!

#121 DS

"who is Fox Mulder?"

OMG you are hopeless. How old are you?

You'd think DS would be all over this show ...

#76 DoubleStandard

History proves that the best way to "combat" terrorism is to remove the "root causes". By eliminating the root causes, the terrorist lose their political, "moral" and economic support from the population and "die off".

History supplies to us numerous examples of those who fought terror with terror and those who fought the "root causes" of terror.

More importantly, history shows the former as losers and the latter as winners.

What an enormous steaming pile of horseshit. "Root causes" is a postmodernist red herring: name one war that wasn't won with bullets and blood. Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan, perhaps the greatest practitioners of terror in history, were utterly destroyed. Crushed. The root causes? In their own words it was "humiliation and dishonor". Was their "humiliation" assuaged? Was their "honor" restored? Was it poverty and economic injustice, the favorite excuses of the Left? Were they less impoverished at the end of the war? Go read Sun Tsu's Art of War and try again.

The "root cause" is Hate, pure and simple. These bloodthirsty monsters that destroyed the World Trade Center, who bombed train stations in Spain, and who sawed off the heads of Daniel Pearl and Nicolas Berg cannot be reasoned with and will not stop until we are conquered or they are dead.

Don't buy it.

Word going around in the conspiracy circles is that Berg was murdered by orders of the CIA. Believe it or not.

Hey, DS - goo look up what the Brits did to the Thuggeries in India.

Root causes my ass.

Just from what I have read on this thread, it seems as if Mr. Berg was so naive that he was lucky to have lived to the ripe old age of 26.

Some empty, overused phrases that should be retired from common parlance immediately:

- "root causes"

- quagmire (in reference to Iraq)

- cycle of violence.

qüark2 johnson - that happened in Israel a few years ago as well. Some pali bitch pretened to be interested in an 18 year old boy and when he went to meet her, a gang of guys dragged him to a cave and slit his throat. 

97 Imperialist Running-Dog Aggressor 5/13/2004 05:05PM PST
"You know, there is something really weird about the whole idea of biz folks going to Iraq to get reconstruction contracts"

My answer is to remember the "dogs of war". War = Profit

"I want to see us roll out the Marines, the AC-130 Spectre's, the MOABs and FINISH IT!"

I suggest you go to the Situation Room at 1600 Penn. Ave and share your idea with Pres. Bush. So far, your idea hasn't worked. Got anything better?

103 Beagle Matamoros 5/13/2004 05:08PM PST
I admit that you finally made me laugh with that post.

106 Lawrence Schmerel 5/13/2004 05:10PM PST
Rember that idealism made America a great country.

107 Buckaroo 5/13/2004 05:10PM PST
"The Mexicans have an Air Force?!"

April 1914 President Wilson's actions force the resignation of Victoriano Huerta - the Mexican head of state.

I guess we have to dig deeper than Operation TP Ajax.

This stuff has *nothing* on a *real* conspiracy. LOOK:

JFK and JR Ewing were both shot in Dallas!

Both had the initial J in their first names!

Both were famous people!

Men, even!

(Okay, so JR was an actor whose character was "winged" on a TV set, and poor JFK was truly gunned down by genuine assasin bullets--but why let such "details" get in the way of a good conspiracy?)

/"We *won't* grow up!" (lamented "Peter Pan" film, starring Mary Martin in the title role)

* * * *

Now can we all please stop feeding the trolls and ghouls...

OT: Need something to get my mind off this discusting CARNAGE. and the way Arabists are try like hell "fix this" by casting all sorts of doubt on the Victim. (thats for another time)...

Something silly and fun: Caint..hep it. I love Survivor and this time you could vote ANOTHER 1 Mill. to the person YOU thought should win. Ive got my fav. But my second fav just got put into the mix for the 1 Mill. So BIG TOM just got voted in. And Yeah. Hes talkin English...but I swear..you cannot know what the hell he is saying SOME of the time. Cute as can be.

The other one would be Rudi. I love that old so and so. Hes a pistol and a half. He sould have won the first time, NOT whathisface...

My fav tho of all time..is RUPERT. This big bear of a man is too dear for words. A nice "boy" And he could use the $$$.

That's not the strangest thing.

Avi's post on LGF a while back shows a link which was apparently taken off some ANSWER web site that has, get this, Michael Berg (Nicks' pop) listed along with Nicks company.

Michael S. Berg, Teacher, Prometheus Methods Tower Service, Inc.,

At the time (maybe he found otherwise, I dunno) Avi couldn't confirm that ANSWER had that for sure. However, note the date that this post was made

Posted on 03/07/2004 7:02:01 PM PST by doug from upland

Which leads Avi to think that it's a genuine copy. Anyone know how to use google stash to check this out?

OK, so here is the question. Assuming that the post that Avi found is legit, why is Nicks father listed next to Prometheus and not Nick?

Reasons I can think of:

1. His dad was playing a practical joke. Nick is reputed to be an arch conservative who (according to the NY Sun) worked putting up telecom stuff at some Republican convention way back when. So it would kind of make sense for his pop to use his sons company as an endorsement for the exact opposite thing he believes. Given that Nick was also supposed to have a great sense of humor, if his dad is similiar I can see it.

2. His pop is an eccentric and used the name without permission. People do wacky things when they are motivated by religi- er, politics. So maybe he figured "no harm done" and used it anyway. Or maybe he was a die hard loony who figured this would be the best way to get his son back a bit (see #1 - practical joke)

3. He gave his pop permission, cause he's a really nice guy. I can see this too.

Actually I think it's all 3

However, now we get into true Lizardoid conspiracy mode with the password. What pray fucking tell, was he doing with a password that some Jislamist had? I don't think that's a coincidence in the "6 degrees removed" sense. Maybe a coincidence in "2 degrees removed" sense. In that he hangs out with politically active people so maybe, since he hangs with that crowd, the psychos on the left are not that far from right wing polical junkies, etc.

Keep in mind that his pop is in ANSWER, and that is easily the worst of the LLL groups. Any group that says "stop war and end racism" as part of their acronym is wayyy off the reservation.

---

An aside related to Avi's post in case you got confused: (now I will make that part more confusing for you people)

Avi mentioned a "prayer shawl" (we call it a "tallit") but it's something religious Joos wear for, at most, an hour or two in the morning while we pray. Which is a bit odd. Because European Jewish custom is not to wear the shawl until you are a married man.

German Jews and middle Eastern Jews wear it from age 13 and up, so do Hassidic Jews, and a lot of Israelis (ME and Hasidic customs are very popular there). But Nick wasn't Israeli. He sure don't look Sephardi to me bub (ME jews tend to have darker skin, but not all - I have very white skin, so sometimes there are exceptions). Maybe he's of German-Jewish descent.

But even that would be weird b/c given his dad's affiliation with a communist movement the boys obviously a baal t'shuva (You Christians would call that "born again").

Maybe he was hanging out with Lubavitch Hassidim. But if he was, that would be all over the place b/c Lubavitchers are pretty much everywhere and they like to chatter just as much as everyone else does, which means, if he hung out with Lubavitchers, everyone would know it by now. Trust me.

In any case, I don't think it would be an issue because it is unlikely that anyone would even know what a prayer shawl is in that part of the world. They probably would have thought it was some girly-man closet homo thing and left it at that. I doubt very very much if he would have explained it to anyone.

Bottom line, I don't think he had one. Doesn't fit.

DoubleStandard (#76):

History proves that the best way to "combat" terrorism is to remove the "root causes". By eliminating the root causes, the terrorist lose their political, "moral" and economic support from the population and "die off".

History supplies to us numerous examples of those who fought terror with terror and those who fought the "root causes" of terror.

More importantly, history shows the former as losers and the latter as winners.

Just a simple note from a neighbor who can read, critically think and understand the lessons of history.

Would you just listen to yourself?

Do you understand how pompous you sound? You come in here assuming that nobody here has let his or her tiny little mind stretch out into wondering what "root causes" might be behind Islamic terrorism—that none of us have thought these things out, done our own research, come to our own conclusions that don't involve parroting cute "losers and winners" slogans from cereal boxes.

Your "Gee, I can read, unlike these stupid warmongering peons" attitude is precisely why so many of us left the Left. It's precisely why we sought a better solution than the drivel you guys spew, and that many of us used to repeat with just as much intensity.

Look: The "root cause" of Islamic terrorism is the fact that since 1492, the Arab world hasn't contributed enough wealth to the world to fill a Levi's 501 buttcheek pocket. Yet Allah has promised Muslims that they stand to inherit the Earth. This cognitive dissonance can only be resolved, as far as they're concerned, with holy war.

You want to believe that it's all the fault of McDonald's and Wal-Mart and Coca-Cola and Disneyland and Barbie that they hate us. Well, it isn't. Those are things they covet, not hate. Their sense of guilt and their bitterness drive them to purge that covetousness from themselves with blood and fire, because only in that way can they make themselves pure before Allah.

It's a culture war. We can either go back to the 11th century with them, or we can bring them to the 21st century with us. One or the other. Which one would you rather see?

Because we can't just go on with half the world living a thousand years behind the other half. That's what destroyed the Indians in North America. It would have been one side or the other, and either case would have been tragic; but that's the way life is when cultures this different collide. Coexistence isn't possible; not when it means living always under the threat of more 9/11s.

We have "asked ourselves why they hate us". We've pondered and agonized over that question, just like people like you wanted us to. But the answer we've come to is that we like our culture the way it is, dammit. The Islamists can either learn to like it too, keep hating it and leave us alone, or do their best to destroy it. They've chosen the latter; so we have to make our own choice. We can either endure the threat of terrorism and put up with the occasional attacks; or we can try to change the Arab world and undercut the pernicious influences in that culture by installing democracy.

If you think we'd be better off just wearing a big umbrella and learning Arabic, well, you're welcome to do so. But the rest of us kinda like this culture of not-beheading-people and not-knocking-down-skyscrapers, and we want to keep it, thank you.

Now take your I'm-mentally-superior-because-I-watch-C-SPAN attitude somewhere where it might fit in better, like the yacht club or the debutante ball. We don't take kindly to elitism here, nor do we have much patience for the kinds of opinions that can only be delivered under a heavy dousing of it.

Moishe - people here at LFG give out passwords for NY times and such. This goes on a lot. Passwords aren't so special unless you want to keep it private.

I had a community email account once for another "blog" and one of the members used that as a way to slander me by saying I did it for alteriar motives... she was a psycho with a vendetta for me and that's what I got for a good deed.

#126 scaramouche

McVeigh was embarrassed at his treason and thus wanted to keep it secret. McVeigh openly stated remorse about the children who died. Most likely his remorse was greater than he cared to admit.

The '93 WTC bombing was carried out with Saddam's assistance. It occurred around the same time as Iraq's attempted assassination of George H. W. Bush in Kuwait. See Laurie Mylroie's investigation into the passport fraud that originated in Iraq.

What is becoming increasingly clear is that there was a John Doe #2, and there is an OKC bombing connection to Islamic terror.

Saddam's link to 9/11 is now almost crystal clear. A "Hamburg student" met with an Iraqi agent in Prague according to Iraq's own files, uncovered after liberation. The date of the meeting was the same as that other indicators have Mohammed Atta visiting the same guy in Prague. Atta was a Hamburg student. How many Hamburg students could have visited the Iraq embassy in Prague on that day? To deny Saddam's link to 9/11 now is laughable.

With Saddam attacking the US in '93 and 2001, it is perfectly consistent that he attacked the US in '95 in OKC.

Saddam desperately tried to keep his attacks secret, for obvious reasons.

#118:

Yep.

No, not all cultures are equal. The civilized, productive cultures of the US and Israel are too good, too strong, and they must be "controlled" by the loser cultures.

Peace Corp, open immigration, blah, blah, blah.

The bad students do not have to produce.

The father Michael undoubtedly is in shock.

He is also saying some very foolish things --such as disclosing this man's name in Mosul to the press in light of the "safety" issue the son spoke of in his email.

His father, Michael Berg, told the AP that Michael's sister, now dead, married an Iraqi man named Mudafer, who became close to Nicholas. In one of the e-mails, Nicholas Berg describes going to the northern city of Mosul, where he introduced himself to Mudafer's brother, identified as Moffak Mustaffa. "We got along splendidly," Berg wrote. "We spent a few hours and I helped him establish an e-mail account." Berg notes that "my presence ... made him more concerned (about his own safety and probably mine too) than I've been the entire time I've been here."

OT: The former Archbishop of Canterbury is not a good dhimmie!
Lord Carey provoked anger in the Muslim world with a recent speech in Rome, in which he said Islamic leaders had done too little to condemn the use of suicide bombers
In his lecture, Lord Carey said: "I remain unapologetic about appealing to Muslim leaders to condemn outright such actions (as suicide bombing) and to go on condemning."

#55 Grayp

Uh, should I hide under the computer desK? I posted the same article on the Al Jazeera thread.

I see you have now experienced the schmuck who ran here for cover.

Re Nick Berk zt'l? It was an horrific death, and no matter what emerges, it still still be a tragedy. He was a decent young man, from what has been said, and perhaps felt that he could handle the situation. With this info from CBS, not known for being friendly to the Jews...just look at Dan Rather...and the fact that they flogged the alleged atrocities first?

As a parent ,who is now in the middle of all the stuff that happens 3 days before our only daughter's wedding, I keep thinking of the 11 IDF martyrs and also one American Jew who was beheaded by the RoP...their parents will never have a simcha where they stand under the Chuppah with their sons...Nick Berg seemed to be on the way to becoming a Ba'al T'shuva , and we will never know what he, nor the 11 IDF martyrs might have become, might have accomplished.

There are so many questions...his Iraqu muslim uncle in law, and now this new one. His father's ties with A.N.S.W.E.R ...so many unanswered questions...

How are you doing, BTW?

Real West! Welcome back!

The maths still out on this one, coincidence introduces the need to check figures very closely. The old mans reaction goes beyond grief and introduces doubts that would not otherwise exist. I think that the kid was at the wrong place at the wrong time but I dont know why. time wiil tell.

What the hell does that mean, "a computer password"? A password to what? That doesn't mean anything. Nothing. And where does it come from? Why, an unnamed source, of course. "U.S. officials." Who's that? A State Dept. arabist? Sy Hersh? But CBS is the bearer of the news so we know there's something there. Right? Sure.

This is the most important story in the world and unless I get SOMEONE'S NAME and some kind of information beyong meaningless gobblygook, I am not going to believe it. Even if it comes from CBS.

Why is this the most important story in the world? Because Iraq is worth billions and billions and billions and billions of dollars in oil. And Iraq is worth Iran and Syria and Saudi Arabia. And Iraq may be worth America and western civilization as well. Did I mention our lives, fortunes and sacred honor? And this one story has so fired up the American people that they have virtually forgotten about the 'prison abuse scandal' and are ready to blast the sh*t out of the enemy if that's what it takes.

Password to what?? What does that mean? I got at least 6 passwords at work, a password for my cell phone, about 5 on my internet accounts. I got 2 passwords for my credit cards and 1 for my cash card and 1 for my garage lock, and 1 for the combo on my bike chain. I am one fu*king dangerous dude.

I'm sorry, but CBS makes money by havings 60 Minutes stories that secretly plug books by its parent company. They are not totally honest. This story is worth untold billions and the lives of the best Americans. I need more than "U.S. officials". The story may be true, but prove it!

#76 Double Standard

History supplies to us numerous examples of those who fought terror with terror and those who fought the "root causes" of terror.

You sound like John Kerry, citing nameless "foreign leaders" to make a made-up point.

What are these examples? Can you name me some "winners" who fought the "root causes" of terror?

And, of course, you did not list any of the "root causes," although I can guess poverty, oppression, corporate greed, third world debt and capitalism are what you would come up with (having been a good boy and memorizing your DNC talking points). Osama has more money than all LGFers put together. He could have been sitting in a Red Sea villa next door to Idi Amin watching the sunset. What was his "root cause"?

The "winners" in the WOT will be those whose cast aside wondering about "root causes" and just go kill the bastards.

Why are you judging him by his father? Especially since he disagreed with his father about the war?

Why not judge him by this?

Or this?

(Okay, so JR was an actor whose character was "winged" on a TV set, ..."We *won't* grow up!" (lamented "Peter Pan" film, starring Mary Martin in the title role)

ohmygosh! it is a conspiracy! JR Ewing was played by an actor whose mother in real life was Mary Martin!! Oh man! You are blowing my mind! It's all so connected...

/old hippie

#18 Kat
What is your source for your alleged statement by Berg's father? The link you provided does not say that.

#148 Abu Akmu

At least one reasonable man stands up and says, "wait, please." The Archbishop seems to have taken point. It's fascinating if you juxtapose reaction to Canada bringing in a true firebrand loon, to the Archbishop making some pointed observations.

Silence the dhimmi, the world cries out.

109 Bob 5/13/2004 05:11PM PST
Liked your post but did not agree with the last two paragraphs.

112 Double Jeopardy 5/13/2004 05:14PM PST
Many examples like Chile(removal of Pinochet) and East Timor(invaded by Indonesia) and Phillipines(removal of Marcos) and Hati (the Duvalier family removed)- where support for terrorist governments were withdrawn by outside powers. These were essentially peaceful removal of terrorist regiemes.

114 Dar ul Harbarian 5/13/2004 05:14PM PST
"He had the recipies in his rolodex, ready to cook up when it suited his purpose."

Sorry this was not the reason the Bush adminstration gave for war.

They unmistakably claimed that he had WMD's. If the basis for war was the "rolodex" then the US should have atacked many other countries first.

"Why is AQ fighting tooth and nail for us to fail if it wasn't important to him." AQ is the enemy of the USA and will fight the USA anywhere and everywhere. The question is "did the Saddam regieme have an operational link to the Saddam regieme?" No.

Show me the speech, video, pictures, etc of the Buish adminstration showing the world 1) Saddams WMD's and 2) Saddams link to AQ. The evidence of the Bush demomstration does not exist.

#125 ted

Please don't stretch so far, ted. The man did not mean the killers were innocent of blame in the killing. The man meant that the killers:

did not realize they were killing their *best friend* among foreigners (a man who would give free water to a village, etc.)

The naive father doesn't understand that the killers don't *care* about village children dying from contaminated water. He doesn't understand that Islam forbids close relationships with outsiders (except it permits a man to marry an unbelieving woman--for children, and in order to "not compel" her into accepting Islam--yeah, right).

Leah sez:

OT: Need something to get my mind off this discusting CARNAGE.

Girl, don't you dare post a Survivor spoiler!

And don't worry about all this carnage. Gay marriage will be officially legal in Massachusets on Monday so the press is going to stop beating us over the head with this stuff for at least a few hours.

#141 Leah

My wife watches Survivor {spit} so I've seen way more than I ever wanted too of it ...

Thorughout all seasons, the **only** person there I've ever respected is Rudy.

This guy is everything the U.S. armed forces are -- and everything the Abu Gharib asshats aren't ...

Summary bio of the "Bullfrog"

FYI Rudy was one of the folks interviewed for this book ---

'Nam SEALs

RUPERT is IN contention now..I want that boy to get the Mill...

Next: I think FOR THE TIME BEING, Jews should kinda cool it with friendships with Islamic Citizens. We would LIKE TO interact but seems to me that there has been a pattern working here..nice, trusting, willing to be friends cause it is right JEWS are getting lured to their deaths by Arabs that take advantage of our civility.

Tell ya the truth..Im not sure that until these people get SANE and stop all this murderous behavior, ALL Americans should keep the F..away from them..HERE AND Overseas. Americans, English, Australians, Canadians, ISRAELIS, Jews ..Christians..HINUS...These people of Islam are in the throws of some kind of BLOOD LUST and it seems to me and are NOT to be trusted. Im Sorry.

And dont tell ME this isnt a substitute for...YOU KNOW. It is..they get OFF on it..big time..I really MEAN ..get off.

Where's Berg's mother? She's never on T.V.

#6 ajf 5/13/2004 04:09PM PST wrote:

Judging by his father, Berg isn't worth a second thought.

For the record my natural father rejected me at birth and my stepfather (whom my half-brothers refer to as "the sperm donor") was a virtual piece of excrement.

The son does not always follow in the path of the father.

38 NY Nana

If you want to see a similiar schmuck posting, blaming Nick Berg zt'l, go to the Al-Jazeera thread, and look at 'Lawrence Schmerel' postings.

Not zt"l - it would be better to put hy"d after his name. It stands for "Hashem yinkom damo" - May G-d avenge his blood.

#157 DipShit

You have got to be the most boring person I have ever read.

Concentrate.

Evolve.

From what information that has come out, Nick Berg seems like an incredibly likable and talented guy who wanted above all to help people in distress. He wanted to make a difference. Unfortunately he was both a loner,
not part of any group and incredibly naive. Tragic, long may his memory be blessed

Here some responses I came up with to
Avi's points (he calls them "elements" so I'll use that term here).

element #2 - his pop hung out with answer

response #2 - couldn't confirm it one way or the other, but I think Avi is right.

element #3 - his pop discusses death.

response #3 - His pop hung out (apparently) with ANSWER. Which means he's an eccentric (putting it mildly). Also people talk to the press in general. So he's an eccentric and talks, especially when he's in grieving/strike-back mode.

question #4 - why is he carrying a prayer shawl?

response #4 - cause he's a Baal Tshuva (born again type). I take back what I said before. It could sort of work, if we view Nick as an eccentric, gung ho guy, who liked to do and try out new stuff. I guess. Still don't think it changed his chances for survival, b/c a Tallit doesn't have "HEY ISLAMOFASCISTS I IS A JOO!" written on it. It just looks like any other piece of cloth with some strings at the corners.

element/question #5 - unable to find Prometheus on the
Pennsylvania State Dept of Whatever website

response #5 - the Penn website is shit. I tried typing in various phrases and such and it wouldn't return a match to anything. Which tells me that even if they had the site in their records, and you could theoretically access it, you wouldn't find it unless you typed it in EXACTLY.

#123 qüark2 ♥ johnson

See my #158 about the common mindset re: outsiders--and remember that many mosques worldwide feature homicidal incitement on a weekly basis (at least). If the Islamist hears a call to slaughter every week, and is desperate to please a distant, judgmental, bloody deity (*not* like either Testament, so don't anyone bother to flap your fingers, please).

Now combine the programming with an enormous fear/guilt/shame factor. Many followers believe that angels stand behind each shoulder, writing their "good deeds" on the right shoulder blade and their "bad deeds" on the left one. Think about it! Invisible ink, on the bone under the skin, where it is impossible for a human to see... This concept reveals and induces astounding levels of guilt and fear in a susceptible soul. And no muslim can say with certainty that he will go to "heaven" unless he dies on pilgrimage or as a martyr...

152 John Smallberries 5/13/2004 05:39PM PST
"You sound like John Kerry, citing nameless "foreign leaders" to make a made-up point." - Liked the old Kerry of Vietnam. Hate the New and less improved Kerry.

"...poverty, oppression, corporate greed, third world debt and capitalism are what you would come up with.."

Sorry but I am not the only one who correctly noted that those issues will attract followers to the UBL crowd because the needs are not met by their society and governments and those who support the oppressive governments.

"Osama has more money than all LGFers put together. He could have been sitting in a Red Sea villa next door to Idi Amin watching the sunset. What was his "root cause"?"

Have you read his info? He clearly spells out his desires.

BTW, did anyone notice from the still shots that this was not an execution with a sword? The murderers slaughtered their victim in the EXACT same way a butcher slaughters a sheep for hallel meat--or the way a man on pilgrimage slaughters a sheep in the ritual at Mecca.

I wonder if the murderers worried about getting the blood of a "pig and monkey" on themselves, or if they are so schitzoid they can compartmentalize their psychoses...

Why look for more bizarre concepts when Islogic is already here?

Lets just WAIT A LITTLE MINUTE HERE...and see whats true, and what ISNT true, whats been manufactured and whats TOTALLY what about this boy, whose FUCKING HEAD was just cut off...before we trash HIM..Excuse MEEE...PLEASE.

One thing that has happened before is that WHEN the Arab World goes too FAR...and there is a predictable backlash against them and what they did..then is when the ARABISTS in place (in the US and in Europe) go into OVERDRIVE to FIX IT UP. One of the ways is to trash the VICTIM of the Islamic World. Another way..is to trash the VICTIMS FAMILY...THese Arabists have a canipshun fit when they cant control their "clients" and so once in a while when the CLIENTS show their REAL selves..the Arabs go to work to EARN THEIR MONEY.

It MAY be true..It MAY NOT be true..but..his FUCKING has been cut OFFF!!! Geezeee. Could we leave POLITICS sort of OUT OF IT ...PLEASE!!!

70 roach

Assholes at America's dumbest soldiers are out of Mexico. Big fucking surprise there.

Ordinarily I'm all for free speech, blahblahblah, but after seeing that site I wish some right-thinking American type would hack the site.

Just how do you go about launching a denial of service attack, anyway?

#149 NY Nana

Look, I remember how my mother was when my brother, her son by her first marriage (my dad was his stepfather) was killed by a hit and run driver, who was, according to witnesses, probably drunk.

ALL the fissures in my parent's marriage became canyons. I have seen that kind of pain expressed in anger that is absolutely beyond belief. I cannot tell you what it did to my family for years.

I'm going to take a pass on Nick's dad. This pain demands a reason, it absolutely cannot be just because shit happens.

Schmucko, on the other hand, is just somebody who has to win every argument, no matter how stupid it is, no matter how graceless he has to be to do it.

You should set something up so you can post pictures of your daughter's wedding we can all see. I'll remember all of you on Sunday. Thanks, for asking, I, hubby and Molly the Beagle, aka, She Who Will Not Be Denied are all well. Getting ready for our trip to the Virgin Islands in about 10 days now.

In the meantime, I just opened the wine, and realwest, if you're still here, there is so a straw in the bottle.

Iron Fist - thanks for that e-mail.

RUPERT WON...YEAAA...Ahhh aint that Great. THe NICE GUY wins..

Buckaroo..love Rudy...a real nice man as well.

#116 AussieJoe 5/13/2004 05:15PM PST
"They attack us and we are the ones to blame."

Part of the critque, is that the USA holds itself to the world as a society of high moral values and it appear hypocritical when it is seeing doing actions similar to the terrorist.

Again, how would you feel if you were an Iraqi and saw those pictures ( of Berg and the Iraqi prisons under Saddam and the Iraqi prisons under the US )?

Been on for 2 hours got to go.

#173 grayp - well take it out!!
and seriously, ya gotta move to better wine!!
Back in the day "Mad Dog 20/20" had a screw top that doubled as a cup!!!

From the link in #153

[Aaron Spool, a longtime friend of Nick Berg's] said Berg's Iraq work was a product of his "humanitarian" nature, of a piece with previous ventures to Africa. There, Spool said, Berg "helped build a bridge one year" and "taught ceramics to different tribes." One of Berg's talents, he said, was that he was "able to teach a lot of different people how to improve their infrastructure." Spool noted that Berg did volunteer work "while runninig his own business, while learning Torah."

And regarding the US role in Iraq, his father, who opposed the US role, stated about his son's view:

"He looked at it as bringing democracy to a country that didn't have it."

There seem to be some similarities with the Daniel Pearl murder by decapitation, in that both involved American Jews, and both involved videos being made of the murder and circulated. But these murders tell us more about the nature of the Islamists than about the characteristics of their victims.

#132 Spiny Norman and #143 Brian Tiemann

Double Standard always brings up the "historical root cause" schtick, and then either refuses to list any, or lists completely nonsensical ones. (Terror is still going on in the Phillipines, it hasn't ended, and how is the example of the ousting of Pinochet from Chile supposed to help the US in the war against terrorism?)

I'm afraid it's a troll, here only to disrupt threads.

Avi mentioned a "prayer shawl" (we call it a "tallit") but it's something religious Joos wear for, at most, an hour or two in the morning while we pray. Which is a bit odd. Because European Jewish custom is not to wear the shawl until you are a married man.

Berg was a liberal American Conservative Jew. We wear them for morning services after bar mitzvah age. Many women too - I've been wearing a tallit for 5 years now. Men who don't wear them till marriage are usually much more observant in general than Nick.

Also, it wasn't talking about a tallit, but tzitzit, which if you are an observant male Jew you wear under your clothes at all times. What this says to me is that Nick was experimenting with different levels of observance, as many Jews do as they start doing more Jewish ritual. Maybe he had a tallit with him too.

But even that would be weird b/c given his dad's affiliation with a communist movement the boys obviously a baal t'shuva (You Christians would call that "born again").

I don't see what one has to do with the other. Nick wasn't an Orthodox baal tshuvah. The news said he had recently begun attending a local suburban Conservative synagogue. That's how I know how the tallit and tzitizt fit into his lifestyle.

In any case, I don't think it would be an issue because it is unlikely that anyone would even know what a prayer shawl is in that part of the world. They probably would have thought it was some girly-man closet homo thing and left it at that. I doubt very very much if he would have explained it to anyone.

Fanatic Jew-haters know a lot about Jews and at the same time they know astoundingly little. But many of them would know about various Jewish rituals. I could certainly see him explaining it to anyone who was curious - he seems like that kind of guy. I could also see the various police/military/etc going through his stuff and asking.

#157 DoubleStandard

They unmistakably claimed that he had WMD's

One of the many reasons Bush gave for war was Saddams non-compliance with UN resolutions to disclose his WMD activities and account for missing VX and Anthrax. Yes he unmistakenly had WMD. Thousands of dead Kurds are the proof.

The burden was on Saddam to disclose his activities. He did not submit to the will of the UN security council. Thus we had war. His know stockpiles of VX and Anthrax, documented years before, are STILL UNKNOWN.

You in now way have invalidated the case for war. Rather you have shown your ignorance of it.

AQ is the enemy of the USA and will fight the USA anywhere and everywhere. The question is "did the Saddam regieme have an operational link to the Saddam regieme?" No.

If AQ will fight us anywhere why aren't they attacking us in Korea, Haiti, Germany or any other of our troop concentrations? Saddam did have links to AQ. I already told you what Powell illustrated before the UN. The fact that you reject that evidence as insufficient is your problem. You mearly demonstrate your capacity for denial of that which goes against your dogma.

Show me the speech, video, pictures, etc of the Buish adminstration showing the world 1) Saddams WMD's and 2) Saddams link to AQ. The evidence of the Bush demomstration does not exist.

I already told you this.

1) read David Kay's report
2) read Powell's presentation to the UN
3) read Bush's speech to the UN and his various speeches leading to the war

If you don't accept the evidence it is because you are immune to logic and reason. Nothing will convince you. You are an Ideologue who is beyond rational and detached assessment.

#142 bally

Another possibility, since I skimmed a description that Berg was becoming more observant (i.e., increasing his orthodoxy level).

He might have worn the "fringed vest" that some sects wear throughout the day. In a climate like the ME, a spare in the luggage would make sense. That garment would be a real giveaway, too.

I know that the garment is usually worn so the fringes show under the conventional suit vest, but it might make sense to conceal the garment in the ME--just as it made sense for Berg to say, "inshallah" (which means, "Allah willing."

Even christian ME folks sprinkle their speech with "G-d wills" or "G-d willing." It is sprinkled like salt in the conversation: some people use a little, some oversalt every word. (*wry grin*)

#155--it was another link--actually it was also on CNN. But it is here that I read it.
Quote:In the interview from outside his home in West Chester, Pennsylvania, a seething Michael Berg also said his 26-year-old son, a civilian contractor, probably would have felt positive, even about his executioners, until the last minute.
"I am sure that he only saw the good in his captors until the last second of his life," Berg said. "They did not know what they were doing. They killed their best friend."

[Link: news.myway.com...]

Leah!

Yeah too! Ruuupperrtt!

Trying to straddle a happy civilization with all of this uncivilized sh*t.

in looking at the shocking videotape. berg appears drugged. my guess is that these bastards drugged him so he wouldnt resist and so the tape would show how
easy it is for muslims to slaughter the infidels.

#167 bally (in response to avi)

just did a pub records search on prometheus...

the company name is prometheus methods tower service, inc.

it is a VA corporation, incorporated on 7/29/02 [maybe why you can't find them in pa)

his mom is authorized agent, nick was the president and sole officer.

clearly nick was an entrepreneur.

#179 TalkinKamel

Been on for 2 hours got to go.

Good news is, DS's folks finally put him on a time limit.

143 Brian Tiemann: Great reply to DS.

Somebody wrote in an earlier post that some Nazimedia fool thought Berg had it coming to him because Americans are always sticking their noses where they don't belong. Funny, that never seems to bother the Left when the Americans are people like Rachel Corrie, Taliban Johnny, and that chick who's rotting in a Peruvian jail now for giving aid and comfort to the Shining Path. Nick Berg's real sin, in the eyes of the LLL, is that he went there for constructive purposes.

And yes, I agree that he appears to have been an extremely naive young man.

His father's airing of LLL opinions is going to cause the DU crowd to make one of their characteristic leaps in logic: they'll praise the old man to the skies while heaping abuse on his son. Well, if Illogical Leaping was an Olympic event, they would vie with the Muslims for the Gold.

Enough.

I am wasting my time with DoubleStandard.

He is as dense as he has always been.

He is as immovable as a constipated brick.

G-d bless Nick Berg, super genius.

182

He might have worn the "fringed vest" that some sects wear throughout the day. In a climate like the ME, a spare in the luggage would make sense. That garment would be a real giveaway, too.

I know that the garment is usually worn so the fringes show under the conventional suit vest, but it might make sense to conceal the garment in the ME--just as it made sense for Berg to say, "inshallah" (which means, "Allah willing."

The "fringed vest" is a tallit katan, aka tsitsit, aka arba kanfot. And the practice is to take spares with you, in case one of the "fringes" breaks or loses a string. Orthodox men - and some Conservatives, too - wear them all the time under their clothes. Some people leave the fringes out, some don't. It depends on what people in your community do, generally.

#183 Kat
Thanks for giving the source. I suspect that the father was eulogizing his son, and that is understandable.

@168 LtTw

The saud that committed the murder in Houston said he'd made shaheed by murdering his Jewish friend.

The same pattern as the Pearle murder and decapitation.

This has gotten really old.

OT

realwest. Hope you're back online regularly soon!
I have some news about hubby, I'll email you later. :)

190

FOAD

What is the matter with you, that you have to trash someone like that while his body's barely cooled off?

#157 Double

I'm glad you have a good attitude towards people yelling at you. That kind of thing is very helpful I've found.

Nevertheless, I doubt very much that I can show you anything that would convince you. Why? Simple:

This is not a Batman movie. (as someone else pointed out so brilliantly, I don't know where) there is no "NEXT WEEK - WILL GEORGE BUSH FIND THE WMDS! SAME BAT TIME! SAME BAT CHANNEL"

No dude, that's not how it works.

If I am going to attempt to murder 42,000 people in one shot, I am not going to leave a great deal of proof or evidence lying around.

Furthermore, let us assume that I am the single most evil man in the world. OK? Now, generally, we all agree the worst sin is pride right? Now assume the most evil man on Earth is very proud. Now the SON of the guy, who publicly bitch slapped me in front of history is about to invade my country. He wants me, to get down on all fours and apologize like "the lowly woman" (to quote another endearing Iraqi nutball). By, to take the dog analogy further, turning on my back and exposing my belly, by handing over my WMD's which everyone knew he HAD at some point.

So, I'm going to take the next 6 months and ship them out of country or bury them in the sand of a country the size of California. Further, since I can pretty much store most of this shit in about 50 barrels or so, it's not that big an issue.

Now, my good buddies in Syria and even my new found friends in Teheran are not about to complain when I hand them my latest mass murdering shit. Further, they are not about to publicly announce this to the world.

OK, back to reality.

No doubt you are shaking your head sorrowfully and thinking, poor deluded fellow, that's not what happened at all.

No prob bro. Tell me what happened. Tell me how a bunch of cave rats managed to get the cash together and the know how to use some fucking box cutters to hijack four airplanes right under our noses and hit the Towers dead where they needed to be hit. All without anybody picking up on it.
Except for a few scattered reports here and there of some Middle Eastern guys learning how to fly a plane somewhere in florida. Please explain to me your theory on how they managed to figure out precisely what times to do all this without any outside help at all. How they even cooked up the idea. Where they got the cash, and how a bunch of cave rats were even sophisticated enough to come up with it.

And without any real experience in undercover intelligence spy-shit or training. Because remember, these guys have at best been blowing up old women or raping young boys in Afghanistan.

Now we have reports from Czech authorities of ties to Iraqi intelligence. We have other info too. But I know that nothing short of a video - you literally asked for that, remember, will do.

So what do you want me to tell you Double? Seriously. We both know that it is impossible to produce the kind of evidence you want, because Sadaam, as pathetic as he is, is not Dr. Evil who keeps his "mucho secret destroy America plan" in his safe. This is not a James Bond flick, where the villian conveniently explains everything to the hero. You will NEVER find that evidence for anything in this field.

This is why people are cursing you out, b/c they are fed up. Your name is extremely appropriate. Only the joke's on you, cause you just.
dont.
get it.

-ron

#193 quark
More than the shahid in an Islamist wants to die, the mujahid in him wants to murder.

#102- based on the e-mails, it sounds like Nick was arrested at least twice. The second time he was held then discharged by the FBI. Are Iraqi police picking up strange looking foreigners outside the Green Zone on a regular basis?

#158- My comment on the Dad is that its easier on him to believe that its all Bush's fault then it is to realise his support of ANSWER was about defending Palestinians from criticism for killing jews like his son.

The media will circle and feature him because it suits their purposes, most decent people will refrain from pointing out the obvious out of sympathy and sooner or later someone from Israel will say, "Didn't you and ANSWER say that my son deserved to die because he was a settler, didn't you and ANSWER say my son deserved to die because he was an IDF draftee? There is a place in Hell for you and your kind alongside your son's murderer".

#170 - Gee, I just realised that they cut his throat while mumbling Islamic prayers, exactly how chickens and goats are killed. I wonder if that made him Halal and suitable for consumption. That might be the next step for Islamofacist Psy-ops.

Believe me after seeing how the press reacts to atrocities by blaming Bush, they have every incentive for more. If Jessica Lynch was still a prisoner, we'd be seeing gang-rape movie files distributed around the world faster than you could blink. I hope that the girl from the Abu Ghaib photos is under some kind of FBI protection back in the US.

#194

Because he didn't have to die.

Maybe we should invoke the 72 hour rule

I can't speak for the father, but I can't begin to imagine the shock and horror of losing a son is such an atrocious way. God Bless that family. I know the anger and horror I felt and he was someone I did not know. I'm sure the dad is lashing out without much thought. I may do something worse if I was in his shoes.

#181 Dar ul Harbarian

I suspect that DS has a troll motive of lengthening threads with repetition and drek.

So, sadly, you will keep repeating, and nothing will change, and the thread will grow longer--and Charles gets to pay more.

I'm not blaming or chastising you--just exercising another "poor boy" conspiracy theory. 8^}

#154 Abu Akmu

I'm starting a rumor that DS is *channeling* Mary Martin.

The conspiracy widens! The mind boggles! ;^D

198 Lawrence Shmerel

So fucking what? The kid made a mistake and got his fucking head cut off for it. Cut him some slack. You're as bad as those assholes on "America's Dumbest Soldiers."

I think that al-Qaeda, which is at the extremely rabid center of the rabid jihaditerrorist movement, has a need or a desire to display triumphalism, as a means of attracting new recruits to their cause.

#198 Lawrence

yea. and you didn't have to call nick berg an asshole either.

[but we all do stupid things.]

you should spew your anger toward the sick demons who did this to him and stop blaming him or FOAD. it's disrepectful and rude.

I'm sure he didn't go there thinking, "hey! what a great chance to get my head chopped off."

Lawrence, I'm not going to get on your case. But as a friend, I really am, please consider that you've made your point.

You have made your point to anyone who was listening bro. I already said in an earlier post that I see where you are coming from. Neither I, nor at least one other person thinks that you are a troll.

Dude, reality is, not everyone is going to agree. That's life. If others are too blind to see where you are coming from, that's their problem isn't it? You are not an asshole or a cretin. Just let it rest bro.

:)

-ron

I just accidentally saw a snippet of Kerry saying that Berg's country had let him down. [As though there was any doubt how he would spin this.]

I wonder why the elder Mr. Berg did not want it know that his son was beheaded.

#186 hedge

Thanks man.

-ron

Charles . . .

Just started this thread now. Want to leave this comment before I start reading from #1.

Right now there are 2300 people reading LGF. Charles, now might be a good time to tell people to hit the tipjar. I'm not sure what "bandwidth" is, but it seems as if you might need some more of it if you are going to be so popular.

#197 Researcher

My comment on the Dad is that its easier on him to believe that its all Bush's fault then it is to realise his support of ANSWER was about defending Palestinians from criticism for killing jews like his son.

Next the Dad will travel to Iraq to forgive "Nick best friends" personally, and tell the world that the US should stop the war, love everyone and make peace. We see them in Israel and right next to the fence making fool of themselves daily.

This is the same Al-Zarqawi that Bush wouldn't let the military take out because he was afraid that it would interfere with his plans to invade Iraq -- good job, George. Just one more example of how George's inept invasion of Iraq has hindered, not helped the battle against terrorism.

Re Prior Posts:

1. They're fighting in Iraq rather than North Korea because that is where Arab assholes live and/or have easy access to and because there has been a complete breakdown of order thanks to the invasion.

2. Where did the 9/11 hijackers get their money? From Bin Laden, all of their wealthy Saudi supporters, the various Madras and "charities." There were plenty of opportunities for them to get money that didn't require help from Saddam Hussein.

3. Sadly, these weren't stupid sand jockeys. A lot of these terrorists are well educated and smart -- or at least the guys pulling the strings for them. They didn't need Saddam's help -- all they needed was an airline schedule. A good reason why the liberal bull*** about understanding the "root causes" of terrorism and "poverty" does not explain their actions.

What if, and I say IF, Nick Berg "martyred" himself to the cause?

Maybe, again, they are counting on a fear but not rage response.

#189 Dar ul Harbarian 5/13/2004 06:15PM PST
"He is as immovable as a constipated brick."

OUCH! lolol! (But, oooh.)

#191 Ben-ami 5/13/2004 06:16PM PST
182
The "fringed vest" is a tallit katan, aka tsitsit, aka arba kanfot. And the practice is to take spares with you,

Thanks for supplying the specifics. (As long as my posts get, I try to generalize, but it loses the flavor. So how zen is it if nobody reads a long, tasty post?)

#212 Beagle

You insult the breed with idiocy like that. Hell, you insult the entire canine species, period.

Wouldn't it make sense that since Daniel Pearl had a prior connection to al-Zarqawi prior to his execution that it's possible that Berg did as well. Someone at al-Zarqawi's level probably doesn't take "meetings" with folks that aren't adequately screened.

Granted Berg could be a terrific chap who just ended up in the wrong place at the wrong time, but the symmetry of the two events coupled with the prior FBI investigation, Berg's extensive international travel without a known financial backer, his parents relation to ANSWER, the uncle...etc. is odd.

#134 Austin

Why would the CIA kidnap Nick Berg when a few days before his kidnapping the US government had offered him a free planet ticket out of the country?

Explain that, Austin boy.

#195 bally

Great post.

#197 Researcher

If they slaughtered Nick Berg like an animal, did they also cannibalize him? If his body doesn't have gnaw marks, they may have drank part of his blood. Yes. I'm serious. Al Qaeda is like some kind of a Van Helsing villain, except worse.

Double Standard

For all of your haughty attitude your argument(s) boil down to the very lame 'blame America first' paradigm.

Many examples like Chile(removal of Pinochet) and East Timor(invaded by Indonesia) and Phillipines(removal of Marcos) and Hati (the Duvalier family removed)- where support for terrorist governments were withdrawn by outside powers. These were essentially peaceful removal of terrorist regiemes.

None of these examples are very relevent to our global war on terrorism, and didn't the US try sanctions for ~10 years in Iraq?

The Bush adminstration then move the goal post to "freedom", "democracy" and "morality" and now this prison fiasco the confrim the perception of many Iraqis that the US motives for invading Iraq are invalid, illegal, in moral, etc.

That's basically a complete distortion of the facts followed by pure supposition. When the occasional incidence of prisoner abuse occurs here in the US does that de-legitimize the entire criminal justice system or the entire US govt.

What we will problably not know for 50 years until it is declassified, what was the password.

In other terms, was it an 8 letter code word that could be a conicident "rosebud" "climbmountfuji" etc. or was it a 22 character super incripted type thing?

193 qüark2 5/13/2004 06:18PM PST
"@168 LtTw

The saud that committed the murder in Houston said he'd made shaheed"

Good point.

That's the "permanently righteous warrior" theory of shaheed--that the killing "sticks" to one for life, until he faces judgment (IOW, it overwrites the "left shoulder" list). That belief frees the murderer from whatever sin he fears he committed--and can be treated as a "life pass" to live as he pleases: booze, babes, drugs, whatever. He might even get away with cutting corners on the rituals! (Gasp!)

However, the term is loosely "martyr" -- so there are other, more stringent opinions on the requirements--like, ya gotta die. (Of COURSE, death...) Several popular takes on the concept seem to be most common.

Some believe they just have to die on a battlefield, or in an action "intended" against an enemy. This is a direct application of the "suicide bomber" type of preaching style (not exactly "preachers," of course). In the last year I have seen a groundswell of high-level correction that you shouldn't just throw away your life as cannon fodder--you should destroy someone/something useful as you go. (Looks like the Big Wheels noticed their martyr supply was draining away without producing noticable results.)

Some require the battle to be a "defensive" action, and there are Qur'anic verses that support this idea. ("Gentlemen and "tea" boys, let the rationalizations begin!")

Some believe they actually have to spill enemy blood as they die, so they don't have a chance to commit any future sins that might invalidate the shaheed status. The shameless claim that Jewish infants are combattants increases the chance of a splodey-type making the cut. ("And Big Al knows who you are, and he saw what you did.")

It would not be a surprise if a lot of beheadings turn out to be "religious insurance policies" or "Paradise reclamation projects." In fact, Bible prophecy specifies beheading as a common fate for the last-days Believer (Jew or Gentile) who won't recant. Establishing the modern nation of Israel in a single day and the Return to Israel are prophetic markers associated with this historical time period--so I gues we is there, folks. Expect the beheading concept to catch fire and accelerate.

correction to my previous post (186)

Prometheus Methods Towers' authorized agent is nick's sister, sara [not his mom, as I posted]. she is an employment attorney at williams mullen in VA. she probably did the incorporation.

Well, Doublestandard seems to have "graced" this thread for a brief appearance followed by yet another quick scoot out before answering questions and backing his inane comments.

Kudos to those who tried to get him to review the Kay report, or the text of the UNSC resolutions that Saddam was being held to.

Apparently, DS has the naive viewpoint that in order for WMD to be in Iraq, we needed to find stacked barrels and tanks of chemical and biological weapons in neat little lines in neat little warehouse - all with signs stenciled on them telling everyone exactly what is inside the containers. Of course, not one of these warehouses, but dozens would be needed to really prove the point.

He selectively chooses to ignore the main issue of the last UN debates over Iraq - it was not that there were no WMD - after all even the idiot Blix had tons of materials that were undeclared after the last inspections - but what should be done to eliminate them. Go to war as the US and UK claimed and replace the regime or let the UN inspectors identify materials (regardless of the time needed) and destroy the materials and programs - but war would be avoided.

He also selectively chooses to ignore that fact that burden of proof was on Saddam. And ignore that according to Kay and his successor - chemical and biological weapon systems, plans, and programs were present - and in the state where new weapons could have been easily and quickly manufactured. Or that scientists had reference strains of bio weapons materials hidden at their homes. That in military arms storage centers tons of pesticides were discovered.

Pesticides are a key component of many nerve agents or are nerve agents themselves. Then there were the 5 years supply of castor beans and the ricin programs that were found.

How about the bio testing lab found at a prison - where prisoners were the test subjects?

Then, DS brings on the next talking point canard - Saddam and AQ. Again, he will not accept anything Bush Administration - well - what about the Czech Republic? Or the media (UK) that sourced materials from the Iraqi Intelligence service that confirmed not only an Iraqi officer meeting with an AQ operative in Prague in the Summer of 2001 (when the Czechs said Atta met the Iraqi)? Or the 1998 meeting between Saddam and an aide to UBL that resulted in the creation of the base in the north to attack the Kurds that al-Zarqawri was running since 2000-1?

It's easier for DS and the others to stay in denial from the facts.

The only canard missed was the one that Saddam wasn't involved in 9/11. Well, that was disproved by a court case and a ruling by (Clinton appointee) US District Court judge Harold Baer - and upheld by the 2nd US Court of Appeals in October 2002.

I also liked DS's reference to Chile (Pinochet), East Timor, and Phillipines (Marcos) as examples of terrorist regimes that were peacefully overthrown to justify the fact that terror regimes could be overthrown / replaced without war.

Frankly, while these regimes might not have been the nicest places in terms of human rights abuses - they aren't generally accepted (except to Communists and Chomsky followers) as "terrorist" regimes. They didn't export terror to other nations.

Furthermore, not to make excuses for Pinochet and Marcos (2 US supported dictators that the US had a significant role in replacing), but terrorists regimes bring to mind - Castro, Mullah Omar, Ayatollah Khomeni, Arafat, Assad...to name but a few. These leaders use(d) terror as policy in addition to being brutal abusers of human rights.

Bottom line - once again Doublestandard does his standard troll imitation - - firing out claims and accusations to support his politics and doesn't debate, answer questions, or provide specific facts / links to counter. He appears to go out of his way to avoid facts.

Next time he appears - place him in scroll-by country and GAZE.

@ 196 EE

I think since they've been wishing for this for so long and so hard, we should worry industriously to see they get what they wish for and die faster!

Hell, these dementeds even behead their own--remember that murder of that cute little girl in Toronto because she asked for 10 dollars for a school photo--and remember the sickening performance by her father, the decapitator. I have said it before--it's a muslim thing.
{In a self-pitying, teary performance, the father of Farah Khan blamed the five-year-old girl for making him dismember her and bury the body parts in two Etobicoke parks. Farah forced her father's hand by slitting her own throat and then dying in his arms, Muhammad Arsal Khan told detectives in a videotaped statement played in court yesterday. } Yeah, a dead girl made him cut her head off, just like the Jews make them murder.

Pleading for freedom and leniency from the police and mercy from Allah, Khan admitted he chopped up his daughter's body because he feared being accused of murdering her.
"Nobody would have believed my word -- that the girl had committed the crime herself," he said
What cowardly slime! And they did have an insurance policy on her!!!

#196 EE 5/13/2004 06:22PM PST
"More than the shahid in an Islamist wants to die, the mujahid in him wants to murder. "

Greater even that the love of murder is the fear of his own judgment.

#170 LtTw 5/13/2004 05:54PM PST
BTW, did anyone notice... The murderers slaughtered their victim in the EXACT same way a butcher... or the way a man on pilgrimage slaughters a sheep in the ritual at Mecca.

YOU NOTICED! Great--I was afraid I *was* getting a tad off kilter. (I don't care how good the cabrito is--this idea puts me off visiting the meat area of the local ME markets... Ugh!)

However, I am more concerned about the idea of the ritual slaughter during the Hajj...

#216 Bob

VERY good question re: cannibalism. In fact, LGFers sometimes post links to pics of "blood fingerpaint" -- and at least a couple of times I've seen the proud adults "paint" a boy's hands. Then they pose with the boy showing off his "anti-henna" while they munch the "liver and lights" of the freshly killed victim. There is no question that their mouths are full--dangling tissue, blood smears around the lips, etc.

This is sometimes a form of magic to incorporate an enemy's abilities (like bravery), but is hard to reconcile with the general dietary code, particularly re: "sons of pigs and monkeys."

Great argument for demoniac behavior, though. Qur'an contains a number of "uncomfortable things" that Big Al [probably no relation] is supposed to do to unbelievers through the demons and/or believers--pretty much interchangably...

@219 LtTw

You're spot on!

I remember learning about this when I was a kid back in the 50's, and thinking what a horrible way to die.

#221 Athos 5/13/2004 07:16PM PST
Next time he (DoubleStandard) appears - place him in scroll-by country and GAZE.

Charles has asked us for this very thing. Maybe it is time for Charles to add one to the rotation: Do not feed the DoubleStandard

S/he just gobbles up bandwidth and stretches multiple threads with unrelated verbiage to derail the thread.

#226
#221

Oops! Posted too soon. Scroll-by, but no "GAZE" -- just ignore the posts completely, was my understanding.

#221 Athos

That was an awesome post. Don't you think that people like DS are playing a dangerous game when they try to peddle the myth that terrorists are isolated exclusively to Afghanistan? I don't know how a person can honestly proclaim that there is no WMD in Iraq. At best you would have to qualify your statement with "as yet discoverd" or something.

People are going to have to face up to the fact that all of the Arab/Muslim countries have an allegiance of cause against the USA & Isreal. The only difference is their level of belligerency.

#225 qüark2 ♥ johnson 5/13/2004 07:31PM PST

@219 LtTw

You're spot on!

Thanks! (With you, maybe. :^} )

When I first read the prophecies and realized they were coming soon, I envisioned the guillitineMadame Guillotine. (Second link: mild hand-drawn violence: Louis XVI's execution)
***
Major Class and Character OT: Strong stomachs only for this description of Lous XVI's assasination, which bears a remarkable similarity to what we see and read alll the time:
King, to the killers and crowd at Louis XVI's death: "I die innocent of all the crimes laid to my charge; I pardon those who have occasioned my death; and I pray to God that the blood you are going to shed may never be visited on France."

That Frenchman was a *man*--and he kept his priorities straight!
***
Anyway, then I started expecting maybe the Persian shamshir.

I just never expected slaughter-style with a jambiya...

#164 Ben-Ami

Not zt"l - it would be better to put hy"d after his name. It stands for "Hashem yinkom damo" - May G-d avenge his blood.

You are absolutely right.

Shabbat shalom!

#173 Grayp

Did you ever feel like disconnecting the phone, and also turning your mobile phone off? It is going to get crazier today.

I left up my email, as I can answer you better that way.

My daughter amazes me. She is vey calm, but she is a very level-headed woman. I am freaking out for both of us!

Re the loss of your step-brother? I can only imagine what it must have been like. My mother zt'l lost her youngest brother, who drowned at age 16, and my grandfather zt'l died of a heart attack a few months later, at 43 years of age. My grandmother's hair turned white overnight, as I have seen in pictures, and I never really understood why she always had a far-away look in her eyes. It happened before I was born, and I never really knew the whole story for many years. It affected my mother and her siblings, and my first cousins and I were brought up with a great fear of the water. This was over 70 years ago, as none of us had our grandfather, and yet, even with our 4 kids, it was hard for me to watch them swim. Now my 4-year old granddaughter swims, and adores it! We lost her twin sister the day after they were born, and this is with me for the rest of my life. The kids will have to tell her at some point, as with twins, when this happens, the surviving child knows that there was someone else with them. They were given councelling in the NICU, and when the time comes, they will see a therapist to help the baby to understand. As she reminds me, she is not a baby any more!

Sadly, after the loss of a child there are indeed fissures that open up in a family, as you so sadly know first hand. Many divorces do occur, and in some cases, there is the 'blame game' to make the pain even more acute.

What it will be like with the Berg family, after so unspeakable a tragedy, one can only imagine. I have a feeling that the whole story may never be known, but that there is a lot more that will be told. There still seems to be a missing link. The poor mother seems to be in seclusion.

Again, it is way past bedtime, and with all the joy at our daughter's marriage, now in only 2 more days, it is still hard to sleep, thinking of the horrific week we have come through, yet anticipating the joy of the next week!

With your 'straw in the bottle' crack to Real west, I will at least be smiling...have you started packing yet? :)

G'nite, all.

In Googling on the Moussaoui connection (berg +moussaoui) I found another odd connection.

One Philip J. Berg, dem activist and lawyer is suing the Bush administration, Saddam Hussein, and Moussaoui under RICO statutes on behalf of 9/11 victims. Philip J. Berg, like Nick, is from Philadelphia.

Just a weird coincidence?

231

One Philip J. Berg, dem activist and lawyer is suing the Bush administration, Saddam Hussein, and Moussaoui under RICO statutes on behalf of 9/11 victims. Philip J. Berg, like Nick, is from Philadelphia.

Just a weird coincidence?

My rabbi thinks he knows a friend of Berg's mentioned in one of the news reports. Does that make him part of the conspiracy?

#53 Charles

How true.

When I was in Mexico I frequently found myself saying "no chicklets".

You have to go there to understand the pervasiveness of the "chicklet economy".

#54 Moonbat_One

"Word had spread due to the presence of certain items amongst my stuff that I was Israeli," Berg wrote. "So I felt a bit like Arlo Guthrie walking into a jail full of mother stabbers and father rapers as an accused litterbug."

Hmm. How many 26-year-old Republican Bush-supporters not only know who Arlo Guthrie is, but can make references to Alice's Restaurant?

Unnecessary roughness?

234

Hmm. How many 26-year-old Republican Bush-supporters not only know who Arlo Guthrie is, but can make references to Alice's Restaurant?

Those with Leftist, aging-hippy parents.

Those who went to college.

Those who live in a town with a Golden Oldies radio station.

Good Lord, now familiarity with Alice's Restaurant is some sort of guilty knowledge that means something insidious...

#236 Ben-ami

I didn't meant that as some insinuation that he was some sort of LLL double-agent. Relax. It's just goofy, like finding-out that Rachel Corrie knew all the lyrics to the Ballad of the Green Berets.

I would point out, however, that going to college or living in a town with a Golden Oldies station would not guarantee that kind of knowledge. I'm older than 26, went to an EXTREMELY liberal college and have listened to Oldie stations from time to time, yet had to use Google to figure out what that "jail" reference was. I knew who Arlo Guthrie was (is?), roughly, but that's about it. But, yeah, you're right, rifling through dad's hippy music collection could probably do that.

237 Deus ex Macrame

I didn't meant that as some insinuation that he was some sort of LLL double-agent. Relax. It's just goofy, like finding-out that Rachel Corrie knew all the lyrics to the Ballad of the Green Berets.

Sorry. All the trash-talk going on about him has got me jumpy, I guess.

I always had a problem with the Ballad of the Green Berets... "Fighting soldiers, from the sky - fearless men, who jump and die" seemed like it might be a bad recruitment tool. Who wants to join up so they can jump and die? Now jumping and killing, that's different.

Look into videos from some of the marches about Nick I saw him It was in Najaf or Gaza can't remember look at all feed from the time he was ther you will see him with the anti-American I posted on the 12 he was a convert
think out of the box
REmember the Jew who was a human sheild who as to marry a pal.
remember in the torha we just had Passover look in the torha realy read it

#232 Ben-ami

My rabbi thinks he knows a friend of Berg's mentioned in one of the news reports. Does that make him part of the conspiracy?

I didn't say anything about a conspiracy. Just a coincidence at this point. However, if these two are relatives, it would be interesting to hear what Philip Berg has to say about the event and whether he knew anything more about Nick Berg's visit to Iraq.

In contrast though, it would not be interesting to hear what your rabbi has to say about his friend.