good.

Some Iraqis probably ratted them out...

One can only hope these 4 are not photographed naked, right?
 

The first thing that came to my mind when Harlan first posted the news and reprinted here for you.

Allow me to channel Indymedia and DU response:

"Bush had these guys all set up already. He had Berg killed in a joint CIA/Mossad venture and took prisoners from Gitmo to be patsies. I mean, c'mon, we already know Gitmo is involved. The prisoner there wear orange jumpsuits, Berg was killed in an orange jumpsuit. Bush set the whole thing up dudes."

Watch, I bet within an hour, you'll find dozens of threads like this all over DU and IMC.

cut and paste is my friend.

#2

...and ladies, don't point at them.

Very good, indeed. Pleasepleaseplease let that Zawharwi (Sp?) be one of them. I'll personally volunteer to hold the leash and giggle at his marital tackle, in that case.

Do you think the Media will drag this into a extened mini-series like the Abu Gharib pictures?

Four people have been arrested over the beheading of American Nicholas Berg, Iraq sources say.

It's been proven that 70-90% of them are totally innocent!!!

//go to Abu Ghraib and turn Left

PS: Can I shame and humiliate these sick fucks by putting laides panties on their heads?

I think a speedy military tribunal - then we hang them publicly. I think a little lesson is necessary here.

I say whip up a batch of Pork Smoothies for the lot of them and break out the funnels.

mmm, Pork.

A quick trial, execution by firing squad, and then cut their heads off and hang them from lampposts in Fallujah.

But wait - we're supposed to be the 'good guys'. Okay, fly Jessie Jackson to Iraq to negotiate the captivity of these 4 creeps and have them turned over to the UN, then have them tried in the "World Court", which will give them a slap on the wrist and turn them loose to be European citizens if they really, really PROMISE to be good litte Jihadis and not cut off anyone else's head. Then we could give Jesse Jackson his first Nobel Peace Prize and Kofi Annan his second. Oops, I forgot the obligatory visit by our other favorite Nobel Laureate , Mr. AraFish, to these poor souls while they are awaiting trial. That's the way the 'good guys' would handle this, right? Right?

Eccch.

OT: I can't remember where I read this yesterday, but there was an IDF officer who was talking about how they were helping a pregnant Palestinian woman and were fired at by terrorists-and how he doens't expect much else from the Palestinians. Did anyone else see this.

I'm so frustrated...It was such a good article.

If you execute these four you should be careful where you do it. You don't want to go creating ANOTHER holy city for Islam. *cue apologists* even though what they did was totally un-islamic.

Sgt. Mom (#5),

I'll personally volunteer to hold the leash and giggle at his marital tackle, in that case.

But that would be insensitive.

I'll personally volunteer to saw off his head with a dull knife, at least that way the 'arab street' won't get upset at their "manhood" being insulted.

Well she and her followers are at it again. Let them know what you think here:

C. McKinney speaks out against Zionist racism

Cynthia McKinney has the courage to speak out against the Zionist Jewish racism that pushes the Palestinian people up against Israel's apartheid wall, for this she is attacked by the corporate media.

The article is short on details. Who made the arrests, us or the Iraqis? Did someone rat them out, and are they willing to testify? Was there forensic evidence?

I think the U.S. would do a thorough job of investigating, but I have doubts about the Iraqis. Maybe they just hauled in any ol' jihadis to make Uncle Sam happy.

I want to make sure the real criminals get a short drop and a sudden stop.

I say we send them to the prison in Scotland, with the 5 room suites, where the Lockerbie bombers are kept.

That'll show them we mean business. Especially when Nelson Mandela visits them to show his support.

Heh read the DU thread before it gets locked.

Three posts into the news of the arrests & they're discussing whether or not 'cracker' is a racist term.

EXECUTION: FOUR ARRESTED

15

Kelly, how many times you gonna post that?

#*:

PS: Can I shame and humiliate these sick fucks by putting laides panties on their heads?

Absolutely not, because that would be most outrageous, don't you know.

WriterMom

A superb article. It was at Maariv:

[Link: www.maarivenglish.com...]

Hey, we need to treat these guys good

1) Breakfast - Bacon and Ham with eggs

2) exercise - Let them toss the old pigskin around some

3) Lunch - Ham on Rye

4) Rest and relaxation - 4 hours of Seinfeld and Golden Girls

5) Dinner - Pork chops

Now, wouldn't they just love that.

Porn-show the bastards until they talk.
They can wear only Victoria's Secret and clean the female prison toilets.
Lots of dogs.
One pig in each cell (I am sorry pig, you must help us in this war, I know it will be terrible but we wash you after).
And pork hot dogs for breakfast, bacon for lunch and pork chops for dinner. You don't want it ? We have excellent whiskey.

You chop Our heads, we chop your soul.

/Just for the DU audience

The money quote from the article WriterMom is talking about:

"If my soldiers can assist a Palestinian woman giving birth when six of their comrades have been blown to bits in the street but, at the same time, they fire at us from behind an ambulance, you must understand that we are at opposite ends of the scales of values. They are at the very bottom”.

#22 Kragar

Great minds...(see #24)

Wow. I wonder what evidence links these guys to the killing. I would venture that they found an informant or found some clue from an interrogation (no torture, of course). I can't imagine what they could glean from the video.

O/T but some good news. It was reported a short time ago in LGF that Sheik Abd al-Rahman al-Saudi was scheduled to visit Canada to speak at the Islamic Society of North America conference in Toronto (at the invitation of the Toronto Islamic Centre). Al-Saudi is a virulent anti-semite caling for the destruction of the Jews. The Canadian government has stated that al-Saudi will not be granted a visa should he apply for one.

The story is in today's dead tree edition of the National Post - I can't find it in the website to provide a link. Will try again later.

Well that's the BBC christmas cabaret for 2005 organised

" Poor, downtrodden and victomised into hacking a man, sorry forget his name, to death, but now saved by ourselves and contributing to society as a radical arab rap band under the name of Bush is a ***...let's hear it for them!"

Stick a maxi pad on 'em and lop off their heads...

I hate to say this, but I would be very curious to know how they came to the conclusion regarding who those people were in the video, and how they know that they have four out of the five of them? Because if I have done my reading correctly, these arabs have a way of rounding up a group of anybody, and putting them to death before any defense can be put up. And don't get me wrong, the only reason I care about a good defense is so that when we line them up in front the firing squad, I want to know that it was really them, and not just a group of patsies the arabs are throwing to the wolfs in another collaboration with the islamists. Plus, there were a lot of people screaming in that room, not just the five on camera. When will they die...er...I mean be brought to justice.

#25 Wild Justice
That's a money quote for sure. Victims of terrorism, wether they be Israelis, or the Nick Bergs of the world, have more decency and compassion than the perpetrators of this kind of barbarity. For instance, Hamas would never do anything decent for any Jew under any circumstances, but here the IDF helps a Palestinian woman while risking their own lives to do so. Meantime her people are using the heads of their comrades as footballs.
The world is going raise a fuss about the rights of the human flotsam that murdered Nick Berg, but will say bupkis about their peers, who continue to murder innocent human beings.

48 hour rule should definitely be in effect here.

Wait till you get confirmation from the CPA/1st A.D. of this capture before you fully begin plotting their executions.

How soon before they get a lawyer - Jacques Verges or Ramsey Clark I suppose would be the logical ones to represent them.

Additional Info:
Four held for beheading
18/05/2004 15:36 - (SA)

Baghdad - Four people have been arrested over the beheading of US businessman Nicholas Berg, whose killing was shown earlier this month in a video on an al-Qaeda linked website, a senior Iraqi source said on Tuesday.
Berg's beheading was shown on a grainy video posted on the Islamic website linked to Osama bin Laden's terror network, days after his body was found in Baghdad on May 8.
"We have made good progress," the source added, referring to the investigation, but declined to give any details on the identity of the four people held in detention.
But it was understood that none of the four included Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi, who US authorities believe carried out the killing of the 26-year-old who was in Iraq to drum up business for his small telecommunications company.
The tape of Berg's killing was entitled "Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi slaughtering an American", referring to the Jordanian militant, linked to al-Qaeda and wanted over a string of attacks in Iraq.
The video showed Berg's decapitation by one of five masked men.
Iraqi sources would not say whether any of the four suspects in custody were among them, or whether the detainees were linked to the case in another way
[Link: www.news24.com...]

#28 John B.

Here's the link but it's password protected. Bugmenot.com drew a blank.

Anti-Semitic cleric barred from entering Canada
OTTAWA - The senior cleric at Saudi Arabia's Grand Mosque in Mecca will not be allowed into Canada because of his virulent anti-Semitic preaching, a senior government official said yesterday.

I have to say that I don't recall the US government saying this when he was due to attend that Florida conference. Does anyone have info on that?

I would also hold responsible whomever was behind the camera doing the recording. That would make at least 6 people guilty of the Berg murder.

#21 Wild Justice

You're awesome, Sherlock!!! Why oh why was my brain not working? I thought I was imagining things for a minute.

Everyone read it-it's amazing...

#36 Thom

A major part of this is due to MP from Calgary Jason Kenney who raised the issue in the House of Commons and was, at first, blown off by the Gliberals. I sent him an e-mail.

#36 Thom-

If that is an official Canadian government release, then it would far surpass any open acknowledgment of the blatant racism of Fraudi Arabia that our "State" Department has ever made. Although, I shouldn't be too hard on the "State" Department. It is hard to condemn someone with their balls in your mouth.

#40 WriterMom

Three cheers for WriterMom! dB^)

I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but the amount of hate and anger and vengence in this post is amazing.

I attended several memorials for Daniel Pearl, the journalist who was beheaded previously for little more than he was a jew. At no time did anyone, either during the ceremonies or before/after, did anyone speak about vengence, capturing the killers and killing them, or doing anything beyond the normal punishments for those involved.

Is it that you have such hatred for people that you seek any reason to mete out "justice" in the form of a noose/knife/bullet? Do you think that killing those criminals will help ease the pain felt by the family and friends of Nick Berg? I didn't know Mr. Berg, but I knew Daniel Pearl, and I can say that all of the family & friends of his I have spoken to have never said they would feel better if they could see his muderers' heads on a stick or see them hanging from a noose. We want Daniel back, and since that isn't possible, we are forced to move on. Put the men in jail, get them out of our sight and keep them from harming another living being. Beyond that, I can't think the bereaved could care, so why the blood lust?

# 31 Victory Now Please

My thoughts exactly.

Note that nothing on Sky's site says who made the arrests. Unless it's the US forces, I don't believe they got the people who did it. Remember the 'Palestinians' who were arrested for the murder of those three Americans in Gaza (and then let go)? Sorry, I've been in Israel too long. I don't believe they arrested the killers.

See, #24, Poitiers-Lepanto.

I call it "Operation Gomer Pyle: Enduring Humiliation."

No Korans, just porn. Seriously, any lawyer that wants to get near these guys is nucking futs.

#39 ploome hineni

Thanks to you too :)

OT: Kerry uses prison scandal to raise money with e-solicitation.

I hope they're well hung!

OT/ CNN International Reports,
"There have been many civilian casualties among the Palestinian militant population."
Well what are they? Civilians or militants? Can't be both, morons.

#38:

Maybe the French journalist captured them all by himself, and he hasn't walked over to the authorities yet...

#43 joshowitz5

At no time did anyone, either during the ceremonies or before/after, did anyone speak about vengence, capturing the killers and killing them, or doing anything beyond the normal punishments for those involved.

Josh buddy, I hate to burst your bubble boy, but the death penalty is sooo normal a punishment for the war crime they committed. Now re-examine your position using logic mixed with a healthy dose of historical perspective, and change your position. Good boy.

Where's numero Cinco?

I attended several memorials for Daniel Pearl, the journalist who was beheaded previously for little more than he was a jew. At no time did anyone, either during the ceremonies or before/after, did anyone speak about vengence,

That's why we're not winning this war fast enough. Mealy-mouthed chickensh*ts. Someone cuts the head off of someone I know/love, I'm coming for them--or at least rattling a sword and encouraging others whose job it is to do so.

capturing the killers and killing them, or doing anything beyond the normal punishments for those involved.

And please, tell me what are the "normal punishments"?

If you're not outraged and driven to the point of hatred over these gruesome slayings, you're not a human being. Lay down and die.

But we thought Bush did it.

#42 Thom

Thanks-but I'm not worthy, I sent him a thank you note. However, I did have a few conversations with Joseph Brean from the National Post, and subsequently, Robert Fife wrote about it from Ottawa.

#48 danmi

When they are murdering Jews, they are militants. When they are killed by the IDF, they all become peaceful civilians. Every suicide bomber is just another civilian casualty.

# 43 joshowitz5

Why kill them? It has nothing to do with blood lust. It has to do with the fact that in this part of the world, murderers who aren't put to death eventually become part of 'prisoner exchanges.' Ever hear the name Samir Kuntar? Do you want to see US troops kidnapped and held for ransom to release these creeps? Because that's what happens in this part of the world. It's not the US...

#41 Victory Now Please

LOL. Eeeewww. Seriously though, anyone have a damn password for that article??

# 48 danmi

They're the civilians among whom the 'militants' hide.

#38 Rayra

If they're in custody, maybe the US has an interest in keeping that secret for a while?

The Sky News story is suspiciously thin on details, however.

It is not known if he [al-Zarqawi] was among the four people arrested.

Of course he wasn't one of the 4 arrested. I doubt these 4 were even involved with the killing of Nicholas Berg. It's a show by the Iraqi Security Force to show the US that they "mean business". 4 schlubs from the street on trumped up charges. Pretty soon they'll be released. Same bullshit the Palestinians pulled when they "arrested" those people that blew up our diplomatic whathaveyou last year, then released them later. It'll placate the US for now, and once everything calms down, they'll be released.

The great thing is Geragos has his schedule freed up now that MJ the Pederast canned him. Methinks Geragos would be a great lawyer for these thugs.

Geragos, Judge Ito and Court TV is the way to go . I'm sure jury nullification wouldn't be too hard to get. Has the anti-Jew card ever failed in the Mideast?

#43 Joshowitz5

What you say is noble and decent, but I don't think that anyone here is thinking in a particular way to the family of Berg.
I think it is more a feeling of rage against those who would be happy to do the same to ME, to MY family.

I hope you don't consider the life-long work of Simon Wiesenthal useless just because, of course, the sorrow of the survivors of the Holocaust can't be tamed hanging some nazi beast.

There are different parts to play in history and you can choose yours freely...given that you allow the others to choose differently.

I personally feel better venting my anger and doing whatever I can to make the politicians feel that the American Street is important, and angry.

If you feel that Pity is the most important "role" today, that's OK for me, as long as you don't label me just because I don't think the same.

Send the evil scum to their Allah.

#43 joshowitz5

Is it that you have such hatred for people that you seek any reason to mete out "justice" in the form of a noose/knife/bullet? Do you think that killing those criminals will help ease the pain felt by the family and friends of Nick Berg?

I don't think there are any posts on this thread that seriously advocate violence, although can you blame anybody for hating the individuals who murdered Nick Berg, Daniel Pearl, the proud Italian guy, etc.? If I were you I would not be concerned about a post on a blog until the author has been caught beheading somebody, or doing something violent. I for one would support the use of capital punishment against perpetrators who were proven to be the culprits. Justice isn't supposed to make anybody feel better. It is, in this case, a punitive action. May it be swift & extremely severe for Berg's murderers.

#8 Swiftsure-

PS: Can I shame and humiliate these sick fucks by putting laides panties on their heads?

Well, according to some previous threads, some Jihadis would rather die "honorably"--like, um, tortured and killed by Saddam--than be "humiliated" that way.

I wonder how they would actually chose, if their lives depended on it for sentencing?

WriterMom,

You're welcome. COP/JCenter Daily Alert carried that piece, which is how I came across it.

Love your posts, by the way.

#43

Did you actually intend to use the term "move on"?

Countrymen are beheaded. You'd like to "move on"?

Wow.

Beyond that, I can't think the bereaved could care, so why the blood lust?

I am sorry for your personal loss.

That said, not everything is about "the bereaved."

Just as a group of widows do not 'own' Sept 11, no one 'owns' the brutal massacre of an American young man.

An American was massacred -- those responsible must pay a very high price.
 

Story is also now being run at NEWS.com.au. Reads as follows regarding satanic slimeball al-Zarqawi:

But it was understood that none of the four included Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who US authorities believe carried out the killing of the 26-year-old who was in Iraq to drum up business for his small telecommunications company.

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,96 03636%255E2,00.html

Pray the story is wrong regarding al-Zarqawi.

If the death penalty is given, that's fine. I just don't understand the "hang 'em high" mentality.

I hope that you never have to experience having a friend murdered, but I can tell you, rage against the murderers is part of the process; it just isn't ALL of the process. I now have just a void when I try to even think about Daniel's murderers.

The fact is, killing them "harder" than they killed Nick won't bring Nick back. If it satisfies you emotionally to vow retribution, whatever gets you through your grief. But I still don't see how it will help; it just continues the cycle of violence.

If you kill them humiliatingly (instead of going through a trial and using appropriate punishments) won't it logically follow that the families of those criminals then have the right to avenge the killing of their children/brothers/etc?

An eye for an eye is so Old Testament; wasn't it in LGF that people were saying that Islam should move out of the 7th century?

Here's some stuff on our friend the Saudi and Jason Kenney.

The National Post’s Bob Fife reports:

“The senior cleric at Saudi Arabia 's Grand Mosque in Mecca will not be allowed into Canada because of his virulent anti-Semitic preaching, a senior government official said yesterday.

The Liberal government was caught off guard on Friday when Conservative MP Jason Kenney revealed in the Commons that Sheik Abd al-Rahman al-Sudais planned to visit Canada this week to speak to a conference of the Islamic Society of North American conference in Toronto .

But a senior official told CanWest News yesterday that Mr. al-Sudais, who has called for the destruction of Jews, has not applied for a visa and would not be granted one.

"He needs a visa and he would not get one. There has been an alert out for him long before Kenney started his song and dance," said an official, who could not speak on the record, citing privacy laws.

Mr. Kenney presented a motion on Friday urging Ottawa to bar Mr. al-Sudais from Canada , but Mauril Belanger, the deputy government leader in the Commons, refused to grant consent.

Mr. Belanger said he refused consent because Mr. Kenney had not given him proper notice and he did not know enough about Mr. al-Sudais.”

Jason Kenney writes, in a letter to the Ottawa Citizen,

Your article accurately summarizes my effort to get the House of Commons to adopt a motion to keep notorious hatemonger Sheik Abd al-Rahman al-Sudais out of the country, but cites Liberal Whip Mauril Belanger as giving a phony reason for vetoing it.

Mr. Belanger claims that he vetoed the motion because I "failed to let him know of (my) plans to seek parliamentary approval of the move.” Not true.

Adopting such a motion requires unanimous consent, so I followed the usual procedure of notifying the House leaders of all parties of my intent to introduce it 24 hours in advance. I also sent them background material showing al-Sudais' long track record of calling for the "destruction" of the Jewish people, whom he has variously described as "rats" and the "scum of the Earth."

That was enough notice for all of the opposition parties to agree to adopt the motion. Leaving nothing to chance, we notified the Liberal House leader twice in writing, and then hand-delivered a third request to Mr. Belanger's staff for good measure. At 11:35 a.m. on Friday, a member of his office called to say that it was "OK" and that they would give their consent to its adoption. But then Mr. Belanger flip-flopped by vetoing the motion in the House 50 minutes later.

His excuse is another sign that the Liberals have an increasingly casual relationship with the truth. So what was the real reason they vetoed a good-faith effort to keep one of the world's most prominent anti-Semites out of Canada ?”

Joshowitz5,

Look, it's not just Nick Berg and Daniel Perle's death that we want justice for, it's the over 3,000 people that died on 9-11. Al Qaeda killed them, killed Nick (via Zarqawi) and killed Perle (via Khalil Sheikh Mohammad). The only punishment fit for mass murderers is death. I personally favor a firing squad or hanging for such atrocities. But hanging is not practiced anymore in the U.S., and the firing squad is limited to only a few states like Utah.

Perhaps these guys should be tried by the Iraqis, since Al Qaeda is responsible for multiple homicide bombings in Iraq. I don't think the council has decided whether the death penalty will be applied, but the U.S. could still extradite Berg's killers where they will be sure to get the death penalty.

The point is, these guys committed war crimes and should be brought to justice despite what the families and friends feel. If they can forgive the killers and not feel vengeance, that's great. But the killers must be punished. There are laws you know.

Sorry for long post. I liberated it from somewhere else...

#43 - Old Jewish saying: "He who is kind to the cruel, ends up being cruel to the kind." In other words, yes, hanging these bastards is a societal imperative; yes, "blood lust" is a positive thing in this case; and no, your "compassion" and "decency" does not help, or speak well of you, it only guarantees that more innocents will die. And to the extent that your weakness leads to the deaths of innocents, you are to be condemned, not comended.

An eye for an eye is so Old Testament

The Old Testament is still required reading for a reason, schmuck.

This came up at the daily centcom briefing and DOD denied any knowledge fo this.

Remember the source here- Agence Frog Somethingorother.

The fact is, killing them "harder" than they killed Nick won't bring Nick back. If it satisfies you emotionally to vow retribution, whatever gets you through your grief. But I still don't see how it will help; it just continues the cycle of violence.

Terrorism, and response to terrorism, is not a "cycle of violence."

End the cycle of moral bankruptcy.
 

In my #63 I have asked questions to Joshowitz5, because I took his post as a real question.
Now he does not answer directly and speaks about

THE CYCLE OF VIOLENCE

Excuse me, I had not identified the troll.

What cycle of violence exactly are you talking about ? These animals behead an American and if we hang them with a pork rope we have started a CYCLE ?
It's called JUSTICE, and if he gets humiliated, pardon me, I couldn't care less.
HAVE YOU SEEN THE VIDEO OF BERG ?

You are a troll: the islamofascists can do what they want and if we HUMILIATE them WE have started a cycle ?
Get into your washer and get a cycle of washing to your head, you need it.

#43   joshowitz5 

You sound like a pompous fool who's spent very little time thinking about this issue, but probably feels incredibly noble in your bloodless assertions.

I direct you to Dennis Prager's superb book "Think a Second Time" and read Chapter 25. Won't take you more than a few minutes, but it'll be a few minutes well spent.

A sneak preview:

The oft-repeated labeling of capital punishment as "revenge" is an emotional appeal to all those who consider "revenge" a dirty word.

But the argument is only that -- emotional. All punishments have an element of revenge ...

The Hebrew Bible considers capital punishment so essential to creating civilized society that it is the second commandment God gives to mankind

Plenty more where that came from. I didn't even pick out the best parts. Read it and think.

It's not that we "have such hatred for people" as you put it, but that we have such a love and respect of LIFE that we hate murderers who take it.

Troll,
I forgot.
You are right about The Bible.
We should get "modern" and go to

One hundred eyes for one eye.

Joshowitz 5 (#43)

What an innocent! You must have somehow wandered onto the LGF blog by mistake. I did once also, and had some equally lame comments to make on the yucking it up over the unfortunate death of Rachel Corrie... suggesting instead that a little compassion might be extended towards her parents.

Whoosh! The shit really hit the fan here over that.

I continually suggest to these bloodthirsty posters that if they really want to kill Muslims, they should go enlist in the army.

#72 joshowitz5

The fact is, killing them "harder" than they killed Nick won't bring Nick back. If it satisfies you emotionally to vow retribution, whatever gets you through your grief. But I still don't see how it will help; it just continues the cycle of violence.

Nobody here is proposing that the perps be "killled harder than Nick Berg. Nobody here is going to lynch or behead any Arab or Muslim. Although there is a hint of bloodlust in some of the angrier posts the people at LGF have no power over anybody in Iraq. If Nick Berg's murderers are brought to justice they will, in fact, be tried in a court. Evidence of their guilt will have to be presented as part of the proof. This isn't about tit-for-tat killing. How can there be a "cycle of violence" when our side has due process, and their side has blood sport?

#19 Ed Moran:Abu Deep Fast Insertion

Thanks to all those that took your valuable time from this web site to respond to the hate and bigotry that was posted on the imc atlanta forum by a follower of McKinney.

I am pleased to see that some participants are willing to take the propaganda fight to the ignorant bigots that hide behind the label of "progressive".

#72   joshowitz5  

Now Joshy you're bungling the meaning of "an eye for an eye."

It doesn't literally mean you take out my eye, therefore I take out yours in return.

This is justice?

No, it means you must compensate me the value of the lost eye. No more, no less.

#69 bp sf:

Good catch, I hadn't noted that:

Richard Simmons whine on///

PEEPULLL, let's move on here! You're all sooo Old Testament! You're all so full of hate! Let's be civilized, here! I'm sooo glad I'm here to help! You'll thank me!
PEEEPULLL, why aren't you listening to me???!!! I'm going to show you the error of your ways if it takes all night! PEEPULLL!!!

Richard Simmons whine off///

Whatever will deter and prevent barbaric acts , or just jihadi murder, is justified. If that means that jihadis be paraded through the streets of Baghdad in ladies underwear, led by a woman and then executed, fine.

With regard to Sky News, they seem to have lurched over to the Palestinian/Arab camp. Today they are constantly reporting 18 (or whatever) Palestinians as having been shot dead today. Amongst them a boy of 11 and his sister. This may or may not be true, but given the experience of the veracity of Palestinian claims, a reputable news service wouldn't be reporting it as they are.

Round up the usual suspects...

Be sure to execute them before they get any trial. I mean, look at all the yahoos here that KNOW they are guilty (or don't think it matters). Proof enough for me!

Is it physically possible for people to get any stupider? One suspects not - at least not without institutionalization.

Is DnaDan just a stupider version of DoubleStooge?

#91 DnaDan56
What thread are you reading? WTF are you even talking about?

I hear that cuckoo clock again...faint, but there it is, right on time.

The truly frightening thing is that these people are perfectly happy bringing this type of justice home.

Or, they will be until they find themselves on the wrong side of the bars. But, hmmm, maybe even then they will not understand their mistake...

#9 kstagger

I think a speedy military tribunal - then we hang them publicly. I think a little lesson is necessary here.

In this PC age? Dream on.

Jeez, there it is again.

Why yes. Yes he is.

43

Is it that you have such hatred for people that you seek any reason to mete out "justice" in the form of a noose/knife/bullet? Do you think that killing those criminals will help ease the pain felt by the family and friends of Nick Berg? I didn't know Mr. Berg, but I knew Daniel Pearl, and I can say that all of the family & friends of his I have spoken to have never said they would feel better if they could see his muderers' heads on a stick or see them hanging from a noose. We want Daniel back, and since that isn't possible, we are forced to move on. Put the men in jail, get them out of our sight and keep them from harming another living being. Beyond that, I can't think the bereaved could care, so why the blood lust?

Ah the liberal. No truth for the liberal. No right or wrong, no one can know with certainty. So justice cannot exist for the liberal. It's quite telling that the liberal cannot even write the word without sneer quotes.

And the liberal cannot even comprehend that something exists outside its bubble.

The liberal is not a syndrome, it's a psychosis.

Oh, DNADan56, I got it now.

Are you talking the fascist regime of Bushitler ???

Is it physically possible for people to get any stupider? One suspects not - at least not without institutionalization.

Stupid is jumping to conclusions about other people's intentions, then posting sarcastic tripe out of some sense of self-rigteousness. This sounds like a case of low self-esteem.

#11 Mike

Damn, are you psychic?

Can you give me the numbers for the next drawing for the Mega Millions in the Texas Lottery? Please?

#43 Why not ? Think there's nothing worse could happen to them ?

Whose tax dollars do you want to spend keeping this scum (if proven guilty) alive, just so they can go and chop off more heads in a few years' time. (Hey, maybe yours)

You're sick.

And how the heck this troll does know if we are ALL in Soldiers or not ?

And the other troll is even funnier: yes, sure, America is famous for hanging people without due process.

In fact we keep alive the underanimals at Guantanamo who, being caught with a weapon and without a uniform and insignia, should have been, in terms of the Geneva Convention, summarily executed.

Nope, we give them vacations in the Caribbeans...

The truly frightening thing is that these people are perfectly happy bringing this type of justice home.

Who are "these people"? What is "this type of justice"? Where is "home"?

Or, they will be until they find themselves on the wrong side of the bars. But, hmmm, maybe even then they will not understand their mistake...

Do any of the other kids on your school bus wear hockey helmets?

#90 Ken

I wouldn't be too surprised at Sky getting behind the Paleos; the entire media:BBC, Channel 4, ITV and Sky are all populated with the same wet liberals. ITV especially are shit beyond belief - like a tabloid edited by retarded student activists. I find it impossible to watch any of them, especially the rolling 24 hour versions which are both tedious and irritating.

Stick to Melanie Philips, The Telegraph, Mark Steyn and the odd Guardian article for any sort of decent output.

Question Time is always interesting for its "balanced" audience.

DNADan56 probably is one of those Chickendoves (TM) who whines about the WOT, never having enlisted in the Peacecorp, hunger fasted, or nonviolently stood down an oncoming tank.

Smugly advocating appeasement from the safety of his keyboard...Making a difference!

Wasn't World War II just a six-year-long "cycle of violence"?

/lots o' sarcasm

I suspect that the accomplices to this crime are very likely to brag about their own participation in it. It would not surprise me if their boasting was overheard by someone that saw a way to take advantage of it (e.g. turning them in for a reward). I consider it possible that these might be the real perpetrators, however I would like more detail.

#107 Rayra:

If it makes it "neocon chickenhawks", I'll just go all spazzy!

Dnadan56 needs to be excused, folks. He is temporarily blinded from having spent the day waving at aeroplanes.

Hang on, I didn't say they should be set free; I think they should pay for their crimes like any other murderer. There's a reason hangings and firing squads are going out of style in the US; we as a nation are better than that.

I don't understand the "make them eat pork/wear panties" mindset though. I don't see it bringing justice, just satisfying some lust for humiliating another person.

For example, Ted Bundy was a horrible killer, close to home; did despicable things. Would you rather he not be in prison now, but forced to submit to the same type of pain he induced on his victims? That sounds, well, kind of Islamic.

I mean, they beheaded Berg supposedly b/c of Abu Ghraib, so we humiliate and desecrate these killers, and then what? Look at Fallujah; we stopped crying for vengence and gave the city back to the Iraqis (a truly liberating move on the US' part), and voila, lots less killing in that city.

Sometimes emotion needs to give way to common sense; desecrating the bodies of these people just doesn't make sense, except in a very visceral sense. That high will only last a short time.

Oh, I don't understand about Weisenthal; I'm a member and a good friend of mine works there; I never saw anything about blood lust there. Instead they speak about looking forward and vowing for peace through education and enlightenment of each individual.

I don't advocate pity, but let's just try and convict the criminals and look forward to how we can win the war in iraq and the ultimate war against terrorism. Terrorizing criminals doesn't seem like the right way to achieve that end.

OT: Michael Moore, the "Stupidest White Man," is blathering on about how his new movie will create "shock and awe" in the American electorate when he releases it before the November polls.

Shocking yawns, more likely.

The only real chickenhawk I know is Henery Hawk.

Joshy does some soul-searching and comes up empty:

I now have just a void when I try to even think about Daniel's murderers.

You are stupid beyond belief.

Who taught you that feeling rage/anger/horror was wrong?

Time to do some growing up, boy.

Joshowitz5, Pardon, but did you mention that you are a buddhist, yesterday? If that is true, some background may be appropriate context for your posts. I would be interested in how your religion informs your world view.

And I think 'Egon' is the Double Standard Clone du semaine. I just pray he isn't coming back. Like I said on the other thread, "Egon" totally failed my Double Standard Narcolepsy Test.

#108 paul

Smugly advocating appeasement from the safety of his keyboard...Making a difference!

LOL! Yeah, he'll send all those poor minorities out to march for peace while he stays home with microwave popcorn & Friends reruns.

Dnadan = drama queen

Oh yes, it's terrible that we should want the murderers of Nick Berg brought to justice. We should instead want them to undergo years of extensive therapy so we can understand the "root" causes of their behavior. Then they should be released so they can live happily ever after with their friends and families.

Unfortunately, Nick Berg will never get to see, talk to, or touch his family again. He'll never receive letters or telephone call or photos from them. He'll never have children or grandchildren. I understand the sentiments of the anti-death penalty crowd, but I believe that the only fair and merciful punishment for murder is that the murderer forfeits his life. That's my opinion.

DnaDan's arrogance is unbecoming to a member of the scientific community. Scientists are supposed to be objective. Plus, their fields of study are typically so narrow, they cannot correctly claim to be experts in any field other than their own. So DnaDan is just like the rest of us, and not more intelligent than us. He's just some joe that has an opinion on politics. However, instead of acknowledging the merits of other's opinions that contrast with his own, he builds straw men and uses ad hominum. Typical troll.

joshowitz5,

Maybe the next time islamist brutally murder our citizens you could offer to give them a big hug and end the "cycle of violence"?

#113

There's a reason hangings and firing squads are going out of style in the US; we as a nation are better than that.

Who exactly elected you to decide what's best for the nation?

To me the most revealing part of joshowitz 5's post was the following:

Put the men in jail, get them out of our sight and keep them from harming another living being.

In other words, if we just keep those bad guys away from view, we can ignore the evil they represent. "Keep them out of my sight, they make me feel bad! I want to keep pretending that all people are basically good!" I'm sure Josh doesn't want the American public to see photos of the carnage of September 11, either, because people may get angry.

In the case of those who sawed off the head of an innocent young man while yelling about their god, simple justice requires they be executed. I'm sorry if that makes you feel bad, Josh, but it's time to grow up.

Proposed bumper sticker:

HAVE YOU HUGGED A SPLODEYDOPE TODAY?

Neo con Jewish chicken secret weapons.

I think my rage will be fulfilled if we simply choose to lock them in a very small room for the rest of their natural lives and forget about them.

Torture would only make their lives more interesting.

#113

I don't understand the "make them eat pork/wear panties" mindset though. I don't see it bringing justice, just satisfying some lust for humiliating another person.

To understand the mindset, you need to have a sense of humor. It helps if your sense of humor is a little bent, too. There's nothing wrong with posting comments like that in jest. If you don't agree that they are funny, do not reply or react to them. There are more thoughtful posts to which you can respond. Making jihad against a few sarcastic, silly comments just makes one look foolish, especially considering that such posts do not represent the majority of discussions on any LGF thread.

We should wait till we roll up the whole network before any one gets wasted.
Off Topic:

BONO MAKES RALLYING CALL Campaigning rock star Bono has called for developed countries to help fight Aids and poverty in Africa, saying it was cheaper than fighting the war on terror.

Duh Bono, it's cheaper to wax my car than fight a war either. Since AIDS has nothing to do with war, it is an utter non-sequiter from the King of the LLL's!

[Link: www.kuro5hin.org...]

"Nick Berg's Killing: 50 Fishy Circumstances, Contradictory Claims, and Videotape Anomalies (Politics)

By decon recon
Sun May 16th, 2004 at 05:36:52 PM EST

The video tape and circumstances of the killing of Nick Berg seem fishier and fishier. This article summarizes and lists 50 anomalies around Berg and his death. "

===

Does anyone know anything about the possibility this video was a fake? Anyone have a fisking for this? It's getting harder to tell what's real and what's not nowadays.

Completely OT - Remember that train wreck North Korea had last month? Well, it looks like it may well have stopped a shipment of Scud missiles to Syria

113 The purpose of the death penalty is not revenge. It is deterence. No one really knows if it works as a deterent on the type of people you have on death row in the US. Whilst the Islamofascists have their deranged suicide bombers, who will continue their "works" irrespective, it most certainly acts as a deterent on the terrorist leaders. Witness how Arafat shat himself and refused to come out of his hole for weeks after Yassin and Rantisi were dealt with.

#119 iagofest: I strongly object to your labeling of DNAdan56 as a 'scientist' or member of the scientific community. He does not pass the gate-test of being able to accept empirical data. Perhaps his nic refers instead to some unfortunate chromosomal anomoly?

#128,

It's a pretty good bet the video is genuine. Nick Berg is dead and the cause of death was decapitation. That's a fact.

#72 joshowitz5

If the death penalty is given, that's fine. I just don't understand the "hang 'em high" mentality.

Open and obvious overwhelming retaliation in public view "sends a message." Decapitation is not only symbolic but barbaric. You did not get the message.

[ugh!] -- "sends a message"

Hang 'Em High Mentality

With the outrage over prisoner torture, we've had to modify our interrogation techniques somewhat.

Cardinal! Give them...the comfy chair!

Twisterella,

I concede your point. LOL! The thing is, I've met so many people just like DnaDan during my graduate studies, including tenured professors that are supposed to be geniuses. They are whizzes when it comes to their work, but when it comes to politics, some of them sound like the freaks at DU.

twisterella,

Joshowitz5, Pardon, but did you mention that you are a buddhist, yesterday?

I suspected as much.

I used to study under a meditation teacher who tells me there's long been a tradition in ancient Eastern cultures of denying the ego, blunting the senses, killing the instincts, and eliminating all emotions.

Some people (like Joshy I presume) think this is cool.

My teacher and I do not.

#118 mickthemick

Yeah, he'll send all those poor minorities out to march for peace while he stays home with microwave popcorn & Friends reruns.

LOL. All the better to march for peace through his LGF posts!

Thousand Sons,

LOL. Could I then consider an uncomfortable chair I have to sit in during a lecture as torture and a violation of my civil rights? Where's the ACLU when I need them?

#137 Wild Justice

Some people (like Joshy I presume) think this is cool.

My teacher and I do not.

Hear, hear!

#113 joshowitz5

Your speach is nice, just poorly placed.

The words are correct for a court room, but you have attended a room full of mourners.

No one in this forum actually has the power to do any of the things they speak of, but it is perfectly fine for them to wish for the worst to come of these men.

I suspect you know this, and just like to provoke. Hope you enjoyed yourself, now please leave us in peace.

This is as good a time as any to direct all our friends who don't wish to see jihadi feelings hurt to the Bill Whittle essay called Responsibility.

An excerpt:

I contend that there is a single litmus that does indeed separate the nation and the world into two opposing camps, and that when you examine where people will fall on the countless issues that affect our society, this alone is the indicator that will tell you how they will respond.

The indicator is Responsibility.

#140   Rayra 

LMAO!

#85

Are you kidding? Do you think these armchair warrior bloggers could even pass the army's physical? Just like their hero Hannity, all talk no walk. Send someone else to do the dirty work, while they are carrying on the hard fight, blogging away sitting on their fat asses.

#145 mono:

Who is this Hannity of which you speak?

mono (#145),

Are we to assume you've taken time out from your busy schedule of digging wells in the Sudan to post that?

#145 mono

And yet you are Mr. Billy Bad Ass I presume. Talking shit over the internet. So tough !!!

ps - there are a lot of current and retired military personnel here, even some over there now. So piss off little boy.

145 From someone who has the privilige of serving in the IDF. Keep out of my way.

#137 Wild Justice (your nic always makes me smile:))
What dicipline do you follow?

LGFers: Please give Joshowitz5 some props for bravery. Can you believe he is back today taking chong from you guys again?

Semi OT:

Wretchard at the Belmont Club compares the Iraqi situation to the post Civil War Reconstruction:

Thought provoking

OT: Ha'Aretz Ticker :

IDT 19:08 IDF soldiers in Tel Sultan capture Palestinian possessing important information on weapons-smuggling tunnels

145

I passed the physical...

I am no chickenhawk.

Just because someone did not serve in the military does not instantly mean that they cannot advocate war. The military is under civilian leadership, unless you would rather have a meritocracy of only military vets or current members running the armed forces?

#113 joshowitz5 5/18/2004 09:16AM PST

For example, Ted Bundy was a horrible killer, close to home; did despicable things. Would you rather he not be in prison now, but forced to submit to the same type of pain he induced on his victims? That sounds, well, kind of Islamic.,

Terrible example. Ted Bundy was executed. He escaped from jail twice and went on major killing sprees afterwards. After his second jailbreak, he commited an orgy of mass muder in a girl's dorm in Florida. His weapon of choice was a log. Florida had had enough, and put him down for good. Someone should have done it sooner.

Hey, I passed the physical, too!

Except in 1972 it consisted of:

-Two arms, two legs, one head? Check.
-Two eyes, both in the front of head? Check.
-Can read the large print vision chart, the one that starts, "You are SO F**ked, buddy"? Check.
-Did not kiss the recruiting sargeant? Check.

But Uncle Sugar neglected to draft me, alas.

Somewhat OT: I was looking at the Jerusalem Post online, and in a story about numerous dead in Rafah in a battle involving rooftop snipers (whose snipers I'm not sure, but I think I know), they indicate that two Palestinian kids were shot dead (by whom I'm not sure, but we may as well take the blame now) while on their rooftop taking down laundry from a clothesline. I'm reminded of the old Sam Kinnison (sp?) bit about famine in Africa where he'd scream that of course people are starving, because It's a desert! Likewise, who the f**k allows their kids to wander on to the rooftop --- for laundry or anything else --- while there's a running battle going on between armed insurgents (or what have you) and the IDF???

Hey, #145 mono

I've been there, done that and have my 214 to prove it. (what's a 214 he asks) and then I did it again, as a contractor (Oooh, nasty person) Oh, about a year ago, in a very dry dusty hot nasty place. FOAD

Mcgyver, out

#113 Joshowitz:

Even your example of Ted Bundy is off. You write:

For example, Ted Bundy was a horrible killer, close to home; did despicable things. Would you rather he not be in prison now, but forced to submit to the same type of pain he induced on his victims? That sounds, well, kind of Islamic.

You should learn to check your facts before you employ them in your lectures. Ted Bundy was executed in February 1989, after ten years of appeals. In a final statement, he confessed to having committed a total of 28 murders.

He'll never murder again. That's one of the points of the death penalty.

Some people are broken and can't be fixed. The only thing to do with them is deactivate them so they can't hurt others anymore.

#145 mono

Pushup contest starts *now*!

Minor surgical knee, but better than before (stronger, faster). Eyes, perfect with correction.

OR,

FOAD, TROLL! Seriously that's a classic troll with cowardice as bait. At this point, I feel as though I am in a life or death struggle. See, you can't scare me.

#157 Mattman

Three, two, one...: countdown to Rafah becoming the new Jenin.

twisterella,

Email me, and I'll let you know, if that's OK by you.

#124 WriterMom

Neo con Jewish chicken secret weapons.

Hit me! Hit me! Please??!!

I ♥ neocon jewish chicken secret weapons

I am not a troll; at least I don't think so. I am trying to understand the people who post here at LGF. I've been reading here for weeks now, and most of what I see is so alien to my own values and the values of the people around me.

I've found it hard to actually have a discussion here cuz the signal to noise ratio is way off.

But maybe it's the way I ask my questions; it gets your hackles up. So here I'll try to ask my question in a way that shouldn't put you all on the defensive.

Why is the normal punishment for a murderer not enough? Also, do you find that hanging someone coincides with your religion? Mine doesn't, under any circumstances; really. I see some posters say that the posters aren't serious; I can only say it looks pretty sincere to me.

Personally, I don't get it, and I guess that in itself is a criminal offense on this board. Sorry I am not as violent as you want me to be; I can't even hold a gun without being completely frightened, which is probably even a worse offense.

and I would like to add that my demure 5ft 1in Active Duty MSgt wife could give you a smack down you wouldn't recover from, if she beat me to it.

Mcgyver, out

(boy, yer pissin' me off...)

Look at Fallujah; we stopped crying for vengence and gave the city back to the Iraqis (a truly liberating move on the US' part), and voila, lots less killing in that city.

Well, DUH, if the Americans back out of Fallujah, then there's no Americans left in the city to kill.

NEXT!

/gaze

#140 Rayra

If I thought I could get away with it, that would be hanging in my cubie right now.

#113 joshowitz5

I hate to interrupt your argument with facts, but Ted Bundy was executed for his crimes. So he is not rotting away in prison, but was dealt justice in the same manner as the killers of Nick Berg will get after their trials.

I know, I know, GAZE at the trolls

Mcgyver, out

164

I am not a troll; at least I don't think so. I am trying to understand the people who post here at LGF. I've been reading here for weeks now, and most of what I see is so alien to my own values and the values of the people around me.

Its a different world view than you have, maybe you should hang out with a wider cross section of people and consider that just because they think differently than you that they can possibly be right...celebrate diversity!

Why is the normal punishment for a murderer not enough? Also, do you find that hanging someone coincides with your religion? Mine doesn't, under any circumstances; really. I see some posters say that the posters aren't serious; I can only say it looks pretty sincere to me.

For me:
It's very satisfying to really hurt truly evil bastards. Yes it is. I'm not nice to evil bastards.

Just a little break from troll-feeding (yes, I'm doing it too)

My, a strange rash of railway explosions in Axis of Terror states:

andthenblammo!

andthenblammoagain!

I suspect that while some jerkoff prison guards get all the press, some very highly-motivated professionals are doing stuff that would out-Bond James Bond.

Of course, if the Orient Express derails while Michael Moore is aboard, that could be simply due to the sudden shifting of an extremely heavy object: "Wow, look at that dessert cart!" CRASH!

pleasepleaseplease... someone who captured them... cut all their heads off. Just dont take pictures of it. The Berg video made me sick with rage.

#145 mono

Does my ass look fat in these jeans? Damn.

#145 mono, #85 jeyi

On July 6th I will have been a member of the United States Armed Forces for 27 years. FOAD.

Joshowitz,

First of all, don't try to classify all LGFers as one monolithic group. There are some of us that want to see the killers get the death penalty after a trial and of course the more hot-blooded of us that wanted something more colorful done. I can tell you that when I first heard about this, I was really upset. But the first thing I thought about was how they will be punished in the next life, which is a reflection of my religious upbringing.

Then I hoped that they would be killed so that they couldn't murder again. Now, that some of the killers (presumably) have been caught, I want nothing more than them to be tried for murder and/or war crimes and an appropriate punishment meted out based on the laws of the court. I would prefer the death penalty based on the premeditation and heinousness of the crime. Don't try to pigeon-hole us all. There are as many opinions as there are people here.

Here's a question for you? What punishment do you think is appropriate for those that commit multiple murders e.g. 2-3 people. How about 300 people? 3,000 people? 6 million people?

That bitch Gorelick is on RIGHT NOW

Grilling the FDNY!!! this woman is a murderer, grilling people mourning the victims SHE HELPED CREATE.

How dare she??? She held the door open for a friend of mine to be burned to death.

NOW she's BRAGGING about being a NEW YORKER !!!

Sorry about the Ted Bundy example, I was thinking of a different serial killer. But death penalty is fine; we didn't desecrate his body after we killed Bundy, did we? (I'm serious; I obviously am misremembering which serial killer Bundy is so don't want to assert things that are not true).

It's hard to do all this stuff while also doing MQ administration; I wish I had time to really pay attention to all of this; sorry if I don't respond as expected...

Sorry I am not as violent as you want me to be; I can't even hold a gun without being completely frightened, which is probably even a worse offense.

May I recommend Kim du Toit's thought-provoking website to you?

Celebrate diversity!

Because all of us here at LGF really think you should get out and around more.

#164

I am not a troll; at least I don't think so. I am trying to understand the people who post here at LGF. I've been reading here for weeks now, and most of what I see is so alien to my own values and the values of the people around me

That's because you've stumbled upon a website belonging to Illuminati/Khazars/Internation Jewish Conspiratiors who are actually members of an alien species from a red dwarf in a distant galaxy far, far away.

I hope that helps clear things up.

It's hard to do all this stuff while also doing MQ administration; I wish I had time to really pay attention to all of this; sorry if I don't respond as expected...

Now you're just whining again.

#164 Joshowitz5

Why is the normal punishment for a murderer not enough? Also, do you find that hanging someone coincides with your religion? Mine doesn't, under any circumstances; really.

The normal punishment for this kind of murder is or should be the death penalty. I do not take delight in the death of anyone evil, but I recognise it as a necessity incumbent upon a truly civilised society to rid itself of such wickedness. I recognise the unfortunate truth that some people can make the world a better place by their absence.

If my use of the words evil and wickedness strike you as terribly simplistic, stick around and read more for a few more months.

joshowitz5

I see some posters say that the posters aren't serious; I can only say it looks pretty sincere to me.

Looks can be deceiving. But as I have recommended, if some of the posts seem too reactionary to you, do not respond to them.

As far as any type of death sentence for Nick Berg's assailants? Lots of different kinds of people support capital punishment, and it is widely applied in the Islamic world for a variety of (so-called) offenses (e.g., converting from Islam, blasphemy). Executing these people will not offend Muslims and Arabs because the punitive actions are too harsh, but because non-Muslim infidels are putting Muslims on trial and applying justice.

#164 joshowitz5

I am not a troll; at least I don't think so. I am trying to understand the people who post here at LGF. I've been reading here for weeks now, and most of what I see is so alien to my own values and the values of the people around me.

Did your mommy ever tell you "it takes all kinds to make a world"?

See, that was early "multiculturalism" before the Nazis took over.

I haven't read through the thread, but this is marvellous if it's true. Please, let them have caught these thugs!

#164 Joshy

You are a very delicate creature. Thank you for sharing and enlightening us that our anger at atrocities committed by barbarians is anything but righteous.

peace-out

don't forget to give them nice clean clothes--halal food--a copy of the kkkoran--and a mirab indicator so they know which direction to prostrate their asses--oh--and call the aclu

I can't even hold a gun without being completely frightened, which is probably even a worse offense.

Have you every considered taking instruction from a certified firearms instructor to help you get over that fear? A little bit of knowledge and some experience will help you a lot.

What should happen to those who are mass murderers?

Personally, I think killing one is the same as killing many and they all deserve trial and conviction and sentencing as is appropriate based on the state/country involved, although usually more than one person is responsible when the body count goes up. I believe that accomplices are equally guilty and should receive the same punishment.

BTW, I am trying to understand and accept these different viewpoints. I've already learned something about LGF; the militant voices seem to drown out the moderate ones. I guess that is just a truism; it happens on all the boards I visit AFAICT.

And the Soviets, Stalin, Hitler, Christians, Muslims, etc.

Right NOW, it's the Muslims. Or, it's the Muslims, stupid.

#181 Rayra

"Bilious toad"--I like that.

My fear is that Moore's piece of Bush-hate may prove the tipping point in the coming election. This fear is based upon the rapturous reception it is getting in the mainstream press. When added to the seemingly endless disclosures about prisoner abuse in Iraq, and American and Iraqi casualties in the war, the movie might just push the American electorate over the edge.

Hey, you fat rich dudes! now I know why everybody hates you...
I'm affraid of terrorists, and I'm affraid of a country ruled by an ex-alcooholic (very dangerous kind of people), who has messianic delirious.

GOD HELP US !

BTW, I am trying to understand and accept these different viewpoints. I've already learned something about LGF; the militant voices seem to drown out the moderate ones. I guess that is just a truism; it happens on all the boards I visit AFAICT.

"Militant voices" during wartime. Amazing. What on earth could have caused that?

BTW, I am trying to understand and accept these different viewpoints.

Ugh. Is there anything uglier (intellectually) than a vacuous statement like that?

FEAR THE MESSIANIC DELIRIOUS!

HELP US!

we need to find zawkawi pronto--he's the barry bonds of the jihadis--so i suggest tandem water boarding with 1 actually drowned while the others watch/participate--this should loosen some tongues--no digital cameras--black ops please

GAZE

"messianic delirious"

Think I'll use that one to get out of work this Friday. "Sorry, can't make it in today. Doctor says I have messianic delirious and it could be contagious."

OT
notice how the "gallon of sarin gas found in Iraq" story is absent forn CNN's front page

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

#193

Thanks for stopping by! Hey, how are you Brazilians doing with that slavery thing?

Maybe you could clear this little item up?

Because, you know, slavery is the kind of thing that ex-alcoholic messianistic types feel justified in using force to clear up...

I'll bet dollars to donuts that they got caught for the same reason most criminals who are proud of their actions get caught - they bragged.

Yes, they swaggered around and made sure that all their boys knew who they were and within days somebody was turning a quick buck by naming them. Bravo, morons. If there's any luck, they won't come to trial until after July 1st when the Iraqi people get to decide what a fair punishment is and nobody can blame the US military for it.

drink enough delerium tremens and you will get messianic delirious!

#189,

I have many friends who own guns; they keep trying to get me to a range or learn more about responsible gun handling. For me it is a strictly emotional response caused by I don't know; maybe I had issues with guns in a past life or something.

To Everyone saying I should get out more or expand my horizons; that is exactly what I am trying to do. I'm not so good at it yet, but this is only my second week of posting. I'm sure in a while I'll learn what words put people into "defense" mode so I can ask questions without opening the door to reactionary missives.

Thanks to all who are answering me seriously, it is an eye-opening experience. I can't say I agree, but I am learning respect and understanding for your posts...

Knew someone who chased gansters in NJ for a living. He said it wasn't enough to just jail them. They expected jail. It was part of the business. What you had to do was make them look bad at the time of takedown. To make them look "had" to their peers was far worse then jail.

His greatest compliment came from a mafioso. He said "The trouble with you is you think like a Guinea"

Old mob saying- Nobody dies twice.

Apply it here

Thiago from BRASIL,

I'm affraid of terrorists, and I'm affraid of a country ruled by an ex-alcooholic

You sound like kind of a pussy to me.

Not that I think #193 is any closer to Brazil than the big mixed-nuts can on his desk...

164 joshowitz5

I am not as violent as you want me to be; I can't even hold a gun without being completely frightened, which is probably even a worse offense.

well right thier is difference you are basing life descisions on feelings, you feel frightened by holding a gun, instead of using a rational side to recognize the gun as what it is, a tool, an inanimate object which has no internal aura, intent, molevolence.

when you pull a large kitchen carving knife out of the block on your counter do you shake with fear??

why not? a knife simmilar to one you probably have in your home sawed bergs head off while he screamed.

you are also displaying misplaced compassion, a hallmark of liberals no one here who's rational want a scapegoat cought and executed in iraq for nicks murder, but if the culprits are cought we are not going to worry over thier demise or how its carried out.

#190 joshowitz5

they all deserve trial and conviction and sentencing as is appropriate based on the state/country involved

Oh, absolutely. In the Saddam era of Iraq, they would have been fed to lions or dogs. Or maybe thrown in a chipper shredder.

OR: We could extridite them to Saudi Arabia, where they could have a islamist shari'a trial appropriate to their culture.

BTW Saudi Arabia beheads criminals. Ironic, no?

How strange. I still haven't been able to find any of the major news networks reporting anything at all about the arrests. (And, as someone mentioned before, Centcom is denying there were any reported arrests altogether).

#193 Thiago from brasil

Hey, you fat rich dudes! now I know why everybody hates you... I'm affraid of terrorists, and I'm affraid of a country ruled by an ex-alcooholic

GWB has hit the bottle in years. Same cannot be said of Lula:

Brazil's Lula x NY Times:
Shooting One's Own Foot...
by John Fitzpatrick May 15 - 21, 2004
I hesitate to add another word to the millions already written about the attempt to expel New York Times reporter Larry Rohter from Brazil, over his article alleging that President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva’s drinking habits have become a matter of “national concern”.
[Link: www.infobrazil.com...]

Anybody calls me a pussy, I get all messianic delirious on his ass...

Samuel L. Jackson off///

Dude, I heard BraZZZil wants nuKKKes.

GOD HELP THEM! Rainforest glass for sale!

Joshowitz5:

I've found it hard to actually have a discussion here cuz the signal to noise ratio is way off.

Perhaps you are violating the Nyquist Criteria? :)

Joshy,

You're, what? Early 20s, I'm guessing.

Your education has barely begun.

If you're genuinely interested in exploring the differences in world-view of liberals and conservatives, grab Thomas Sowell's "A Conflict of Visions." It's not light reading, but it'll help exercise your atrophied brain.

And get that Prager book I mentioned earlier, too.

And tell amazon I sent you. They should give me a commission or something.

214 twisterella:

More like the Nyquil criteria. I like mine straight up, with a twist.

#193 Brazil

How's the Ghetto Wall in Rio coming along, chum?

Does any one know the url of the Sarcastic website that poses as the clearing house for the Zionist Occupied Government?

I used to have it but lost it. This site acted very much like "the onion" but I can't find it now. All I find are real freeks that believe this fiction.

joshowitz5 #164

Personally, I don't get it, and I guess that in itself is a criminal offense on this board. Sorry I am not as violent as you want me to be; I can't even hold a gun without being completely frightened, which is probably even a worse offense.

Guns sure don't frighten me. I started shooting rifles and shotguns before I was 10, but I'm not at all violent. I am glad, should I ever need to use a gun for self-defense, that it would be a very familiar object in my hands.

I agree with others that you should get out more. Why not find a gun club, or an NRA course, and take up the sport of target shooting. Knowing how to handle guns never made anyone violent, and probably has the opposite effect.

You say those on this board are so different from you world view, or values. How would you describe you world view?

it's OK for me to write in a wrong way, I'm not english speaker...but I'm SURE you hamburguer eaters wouldn't learn less than this in portuguease. you can't even find Brasil on the map.

#195,

Why do you doubt my sincerity? That's unfortunate, but it is true that I came to this board and others like it to understand and accept the different views held by the majority of posters. If I understood without acceptance, I'd be like Jane Goodall watching apes and that would be insulting to all of you. Instead I want to accept your thoughts so that I can respect you as you deserve.

just to finish: USA is the land of KKK. Do I need to say more?

love from Brasil for you all, poor fat children. I know it's not your fault.

Guys,

Give Joshowitz a break. He seems sincere, and moreover, I -- and probably half of you guys too -- was exactly the same way prior to 9/11. Josh, it is not the mere violence of 9/11, the Pearl beheading, or the Berg beheading that changed my view. Rather, it was the realization -- after reading quite extensively on the subject -- that Islam is emphatically *not* the religion of peace. To the contrary, the entire Islamic religious tradition is premised on conquering the entire world in order to establish Islam as the only religion, political system, source of laws, etc. Jihad is a central part of the religion in furtherance of this goal. This isn't politically correct, but Islamic doctrine shares much in common with Nazism.

It is only once one reaches this realization that one realizes that we cannot respond to this systematic program for world domination with traditional criminal measures designed for those who commit assault or robbery. No, we are at war. We cannot just prosecute people for breaking the law. Rather, we must militarily, economically, psychologically, etc. defeat this entire dogma. I think that's what behind the rage here -- people have their eyes open.

joshowitz5 #204

Didn't see your #204 before I posted #220. Your friends are right. Go with them to a shooting range.

204 joshowitz5

When I first started reading LGF, about a year ago, I agreed with it less than I do now. I was convinced that feigning sympathy for terrorist garbage was the only way to infiltrate their societies and encourage them to raise their children right - since we can't do it for them, and it seems like the only other choice is killing them all - an offensive option to everyone other than Islamofascists.

But that's what Europe does, and it doesn't work. As much as I dislike violence, it's clear that the West's enemy doesn't respond to anything else. I kept coming back to LGF because it was the only place people were saying this, which I know to be true (even though I don't like it).

In the past year, as it's become more and more obvious that the subhumans who oppose us do not respond to mollycoddling, my sympathy for them has faded. And I've spent more time on LGF, which has exposed me to the depth of the problem we face (largely ignored by mainstream media).

So you say this is all alien to you, but then you keep coming. Welcome back. Realize that you're dealing with angry and fed up people, but stick around.

GAZE

Kelly is this the link your looking for? ;)

Thiago from BRASIL

Just watch and learn from the good ol' USA as we save your ass sitin', do nuthin', carnivale dancin', World Bank hand-out gettin' sorry excuse for a country. Don't lecture us about our leaders. Just go back to your military dictatorships and impotently complain about Western wealth.

Thiago form BRASIL, how do you get over the shame of Latuff? That's what I want to know.

I can'ttt help it i dont know what im talking about but you people who eet hamburgers still have alot to lurn from me even if i clearly dont know nothing because i don't like hamburgers.

ps your president is viewed unfavorably by us form BRASIL

That sounds, well, kind of Islamic.

Folks, folks, please don't be so hard on the poor boy. He got this part right in any case. Please recall what it was like being a well meaning but uniformed, LLL influenced youth fresh out of University where you studied history under a Saudi Sponsored professor and then you smacked head long into reality at a place like LGF.

He got the important part right. He's not saying to be nice because Islam is the Religion of Peace.

As for the twit calling for mercy and understanding for Corrie's parents, I gave that thought up when I saw them kissing Arafat's butt. They falsely accused an Israeli of deliberately murdering their daughter and they and the whole stupid family appear to be continuing to do so. They keep marching around doing assinine stuff like picketing Caterpillar plants. No sympathy. In fact I'll personally happily and willingly pay for their plane tickets to Palestine if they promise to emulate their daughter's action while there.

I'm almost at that point with Berg's daddy too. A bunch of Arab Islamofacists cut of his kid's head and he blames Bush. WTF???

ps your president is viewed unfavorably by us form BRASIL

And?

#222 joshowitz5

You remind me so much of my self as a young man its painful.

I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. I think you probably are genuine in your beliefs. I'm also assuming you're a young guy who's idealistic about the world. Thats actually a good thing for the most part. Youth and idealism are what keep a civilization vital. BUT...the world is tough place. There are no moral absolutes. Peace and understanding are wonderful things, but there are people in this world who want to take advantage of that.

Learn to question ALL authority. On the Right AND the Left.

#223 Thiago

Keep shipping your women up here!!!

Sealed with a kkkiss

and a Necklace of shoes for you sir!

#128 spearweasel

You can find the same sort of arguments trying to explain that 9/11 was fishy. Or the OK city bombing.

There will always be those sort of people. The jihadist could have beheaded Nick Berg and droped the head in "decon recon"'s lap, and he would still be screaming that the US is responsible.

It actually is funny to me that he can hear, and read the jihadist clearly expressed goal of world domination, and not believe it. He has to believe in what is NOT said, and what is not clear. To him, the shadows always conceal the truth. This is because the real truth (out in the open) is much too horrible.

#229 zulubaby LOL!

ps your president is viewed unfavorably by us form BRASIL

LOL! I'm devastated!

#223 thing from brazil

just to finish: USA is the land of KKK. Do I need to say more?

Hey how are our former countrymen doing?

Brazil, No Promised Land for Confederates
Historians of the Confederacy in Brazil are keen to stress the importance of a wide range of issues which encouraged Southerners to abandon Dixie and emigrate to Brazil. Consequently, they tend to gloss over another attraction of life in Brazil, which was similar to the one they had left behind: slavery.
[Link: www.brazzil.com...]

#221

you can't even find Brasil on the map.

Pesky troll, just go away.

zulubaby, do you think maybe thiago is related to the one-who-has-sex?

233

To paraphrase Churchill:

A young conservative is heartless, an old liberal is brainless.

#223

just to finish: USA is the land of KKK. Do I need to say more?

Brasil was/is a haven for escaped Nazis, and didn't exactly turn them away. Need I say more?

BTW, how are things in that giant slum overlooking Rio?

#221 Thiago from Brasil -

I'm SURE you hamburguer eaters wouldn't learn less than this in portuguease.

Hamburguer - how deliciously French sounding.

#222 Josh - Doublethink is not a virtue.

zorkmidden, their mother and father may be brother and sister for all I know.

#230

ps your president is viewed unfavorably by us form BRASIL

Aw, gee! The Brazilians don't like George Bush!!!

//file this under "So F---ing What?"

#222 joshowitz5

Why do you doubt my sincerity? That's unfortunate, but it is true that I came to this board and others like it to understand and accept the different views held by the majority of posters. If I understood without acceptance, I'd be like Jane Goodall watching apes and that would be insulting to all of you. Instead I want to accept your thoughts so that I can respect you as you deserve.

How do you know that I am worthy of respect? For all you know I could be the most contemptible person on the planet (just ask Gor-don).

I don't doubt your sincerity. You seem genuine.

By all means understand other viewpoints, worldviews, etc. But why in the name of Reason should you feel any necessity to accept them?

Thiago from BRASIL,

love from Brasil for you all, poor fat children.

America: A land where the 'poor' are fat.

Brazil: A country where starving street children are murdered for sport.

you hamburguer eaters

That hurt. Ouch.

#216 andthenblammo: LOL! :)

ps your president is viewed unfavorably by us form BRASIL

YAWN

#230

ps your president is viewed unfavorably by us form BRASIL

And may I ask, who the f*ck cares?

OTOH, I can't say enough about the beautiful Brasilian women I have had the pleasure to meet.

Here in California where half our murders are committed by people who have previous convictions for murder, I consider the Justices responsible for failing to execute these swine to be as responsible as the asshat who drops a bowling ball off a freeway overpass.
Execution is the only appropriate penalty for first degree murder, and anyone in public life with a problem with that is akin to a doctor who feels sorry for bacteria - they should get another job.

#246 Thom™

By all means understand other viewpoints, worldviews, etc. But why in the name of Reason should you feel any necessity to accept them?

Exactly.

Rayra, exactly. They are not brave, they just love the attention. While reading Josh's posts I imagined him sitting there with tears streaming down his face, overwhelmed by his own sensitivity. Feh. The Touchy-Feelies always bring out the worst in me.

#128

I think the only thing that is certain about the Nick Berg beheading is that Nick Berg is dead - presuming the body flown to PA confirms this, and I haven't read otherwise. I have a feeling that a lot of wheeling, dealing and activity is taking place today and we may never read the details surrounding the UN with Oil for Food scandal (US will use facts to persuade France, Russia, UN), how that train in North Korea really exploded, and circumstances around Nick Berg's death. I think the US is playing its hand carefully and holding cards very close to its chest.

(#221) Thiago from Brasil

it's OK for me to write in a wrong way, I'm not english speaker...but I'm SURE you hamburguer eaters wouldn't learn less than this in portuguease. you can't even find Brasil on the map.

Vá para trás a seu favela, atrás da parede do apartheid seu governo é edifício para manter os povos pretos fora das praias, e escreve uma letra a seu presidente bêbedo Lula aproximadamente porque Brasil é o assassinato e capital sequestrar do mundo.

Após o esse, sinta então livre bitch sobre outros países.

Brazil's contribution to Civilization:

[Link: beauty.about.com...]

#219 Kelly

Is this what you're looking for?

It's 1:05pm CST, and NO headlines on CNN.com or FoxNews.com about the arrests in the Nick Berg murder.

Hmmm...

"i dont know what im talking about..."

Now that's a surprise.

SoCalJustice, you rock!

#221 thiago - did I mention I've been drunk in Rio? (channelling Ed Moran of the many names) True, tho. But, hey, It was with a bunch of (gasp) South and Central American Military Officers, so we're all Baaad and trained at the SotA

Mcgyver, out

(#193) Thiago from Brasil

I'm affraid of terrorists, and I'm affraid of a country ruled by an ex-alcooholic (very dangerous kind of people), who has messianic delirious.

Hey buddy, at least our President is an "ex" alcoholic.

Your President is a practicing alcoholic.

Lula's an Alcoholic

BRASILIA, May 12 (Xinhuanet) -- Brazil's press and opposition on Wednesday criticized the government's decision to cancel the visa for a US journalist of The New York Times, who reported Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Sila as an "alcoholic."

The sanction against Larry Rohter broke freedom of the press, said the opposition and mass media.

And he's also pretty sensitive about it - so I wouldn't bring it up if I were you. He might try an expel you from the country. Of course, if you don't want to be shot or kidnapped, that might be a good thing.

#223 Thiago form BRASIL

Ahhh brasil the land where Death Squads kill homeless children.

#261

Arrrggghhh! I meant CDT.

/distracted by thinking about brasilian women

#155 Ron

Terrible example. Ted Bundy was executed. He escaped from jail twice and went on major killing sprees afterwards. After his second jailbreak, he commited an orgy of mass muder in a girl's dorm in Florida. His weapon of choice was a log. Florida had had enough, and put him down for good. Someone should have done it sooner.

Yep, Ted could have been living a quiet life somewhere if, on the first occasion that he'd escaped, he'd merely quit killing people, but nooo.

I had a sociology prof in college railing away about the eeevil of capital punishment and he assigned randomly chosen "groups" to give an oral presentation supporting or condemning capital punishment. Most of the groups meekly parroted his opposition to the death penalty, that it was revenge, wouldn't bring the victim back, better to lock them up forever, etc. etc. etc. My group (okay I was the spokesman and I had quickly kicked my group into line but they had no military training and were puny) argued vociferously FOR capital punishment with Ted Bundy as the prime example at the time. Revenge? Don't make me laugh. In retrospect, I still think I was right. Dead Ted has NOT committed any more murders, just like I argued. (Nah, don't worry, the prof gave me an "A" in his class. Mark me down for politically incorrect views? I don't THINK so. He knew I'd find his flabby little ass.)

I was younger and less surly then, so did not actually advocate killing him by handing out clubs to family members of the victims.

joshowitz5

just continues the cycle of violence

YOU DON'T GET IT, DO YOU?

The violence will continue no matter what the west does. The Jihadist are on a mission from G-d and not one like the Blues Brothers was on.

When they cut off the head of your next friend, what you going to say then? And what about after the friend after that, and after that, and after that etc?

When do you say enough is enough because none of my friends have heads left?

Are you still going to be passive in case you 'continue the cycle of violence'? Are you going to be passive when they come for your head?

WAKE THE FUCK UP!

messianic delirious

... should be added to the title rotation thingy.

Yummm...hamburgers. Or should I say beefburgers? Gotta keep it kosher, you know.

I think if you get enough whisky, democracy, sexy then you get messianic delusional. Yah-that's the ticket.

OK-odds and ends:

#67 Wild Justice, Thanks :)

#69 When he says "move on", I'm thinking it's a clunky allusion to 'moveon.org' and Bushitler insanity.

#163 zorky, Soup's on!!!

#188 hulugulu LOL!

Anyway, to get back to the thread-

No further news ANYWHERE about these Berg arrests. WTF?

(#264) zorkmidden Um chicken sandwitch

Just trying to share the love with our South American friend.

Aside from having one of the highest murder/kidnapping rates in the world, Brazil is also the country with the most plastic surgeries performed each year.

It's kind of ironic to listen to someone from the liposuction capital of the world complain about another country having fat people.

I hear that Rio was not selected for the next summer Olympics because the crime rate is so out of control there.
Might want to do something about that, fella.

As someone else once said: Brazil is the country of tomorrow (and always will be).

(And as for that crack about our president, you should know that I'm tearing up your student visa!)

To whomever it was at the top of the comments who said something about Jesse Jackson going over to "negotiate the captivity of these 4 creeps", I would prefer that we just send him to TALK to them. That way, he would be out of this country, so we wouldn't have to listen to his big, asinine, agenda-spouting, bigoted mouth, and we would have these guys clawing at the walls, begging to tell everything they know inside of 15 minutes.

Oh, wait, we were supposed to STOP the abuses of prisoners, weren't we?

joshowitz5

Let's look at what happens if we just put the killers in prison, vs. if we execute them.

Execute: They are gone. They are out of the picture. If, perhaps, there is a retaliation killing, we execute those killers, too. They learn that they do not achieve their goal.

Prison: Hostages are taken; murders are committed -- all in the name of trying to force us to release the original killers. How many killers has Israel released as part of some "good will" gesture? They may have been murderers when they went to prison, but they quickly become "political" prisoners after that.

There was a story from the late '80's, when a number of Americans were being held hostage in the Middle East. Then, there was an attack on some Soviet soldiers. One was killed, two were taken hostage. Of course, even if you can't find those responsible, you still know who they are. So, the Soviets kidnapped a brother of one of the kidnappers, castrated him, and then let him go with a message along the lines of "Are you sure you want to be doing this sort of thing?" The two Soviet hostages were release in rather short order. Meanwhile, the American prisoners continued to be heald as we antagonized over "why they hate us."

Perhaps you have seen threads on LGF about some terrorist act by some unspecified (in the news source) group. Someone is likely to post "It's those Buddhists again (or Methodists, or Baptists). We all understand the joke. We are not talking about people who share our sense of decency. What part of flying hijacked jetliners in to buildings do you not understand? What part of beheading someone on video is unclear to you?

Does anybody here really get their jollies off by talking of killing people? I extremely doubt it. Killing is not something to be taken lightly. Have you ever known anyone who said "I would rather die than kill my attacker?" They say "I don't have the right to kill another person." How noble. But what about the people killed by the same person after he killed our humanitarian? Did our humanitarian help in killing those by peacefully submitting to the killer?

The Bible tells us to "turn the other cheek." But that is only my cheek I can turn. Am I to allow other innocent people to be killed simply to preserve my own sense of virtue? I think not.

We are talking about people who hate us. Why do they hate us? Because they do. Our only options are to 1) convert to Islam, 2) be slaves to Islam, or 3) die. Those are the choices. There are no others.

Swampwoman! i am glad to see you! I thought you were going to be too busy for us this week.

zulubaby, rayra, you are so right. I been had. And so cheaply, too. :-(

#267 Gargamel 5/18/2004 11:11AM PST

Ahhh brasil the land where Death Squads kill homeless children.

And build Homeless Apartheid Walls.

All part of 'urban renewal'!

(And as for that crack about our president, you should know that I'm tearing up your student visa!)

LOL!!

This is from today's Wall Street Journal op-ed page. Why Mr. pearl still possesses this much optimism is beyond me, but I think his opinion deserves to be heard in this discussion.

Nicholas Berg

By JUDEA PEARL
May 18, 2004; Page A18

The world has had to witness the horrific murder of Nicholas Berg, a young American man from Philadelphia. Two years ago, my son, Daniel Pearl, a reporter for this newspaper, was the victim of a similar attack on humanity. Daniel's legacy as a bridge builder and dialogue maker compels me to communicate a personal message to the many friends that he left behind in the Muslim world.

I am not directing this letter to the followers of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who is thought to have beheaded Nicholas Berg, or to Osama bin Laden. Rather, I am speaking to those who can win the minds of the young and faithful to the side of hope: intellectual leaders who pride themselves on peace and modernity, and clerics, imams and mullahs who have been voicing concern over the hijacking of Islam by a minority of anti-Islamic extremists. You now have the opportunity to bestow honor on your faith and pride on your children.

I beseech you to join the courageous Muslims who have denounced, in unambiguous language, not only the killing of Nicholas Berg, but the growing practice of killing innocent human beings as a means of communicating grievances, irrespective of how valid or urgent the grievance.

No civilized society can survive the intensity of modern conflicts unless such killings are repelled back to the realm of the inconceivable.

As a father of a person who experienced the horrors of captivity, I can personally feel the anguish of the parents of the Iraqi prisoners who were abused in the Abu Ghraib prison. I nevertheless appeal to you, intellectual leaders of the Muslim community, to unilaterally refrain from joining the cycle of accusation of "who treated who worse" and help transform it into a contest of pride: "whose role models are more humane."

This transformation can become a reality if condemnations of last week's horrors are not left to political leaders but become a public outcry at the grassroots level.

I therefore urge Muslim clerics to cast their denunciation in plain religious vocabulary, to proclaim these crimes to be sins, or blasphemy, and to remind their followers that the murderers of Nicholas Berg, Fabrizio Quattrocchi and Daniel Pearl will be punished by Allah Himself, as it is said: "We have prepared fire for the wrongdoers" (Koran:16).

Muslim clerics can further guard the image of Islam by issuing fatwas against the perpetrators of those acts, thus mobilizing their communities to take a pro-active role in the apprehension of those perpetrators, and in bringing them to justice. (Recall, the murderers of Daniel Pearl are still at large, and his abductors are still mocking justice, two years after their conviction.)

The American public has reacted to the Abu Ghraib atrocities with outrage, seriousness and resoluteness. I am proud of this reaction because I know that self-criticism is a prerequisite to progress and self-improvement. My grandchildren will live in a better society because of this outrage. To Muslim clerics I say that you, too, have a chance today to shape your children's future, by turning your condemnation into a public outcry.

As a devout disciple of my son, I feel an obligation to communicate this appeal to you: Let us make those inhumane killings a thing of the past.

I hope you accept the sincerity of my appeal by virtue of the respect that my son held for your faith, his unshaken belief in humanity and, in particular, by virtue of the faithful way he amplified the voices of your brothers and sisters from Iran to Yemen, from Sudan to Pakistan.

Let us create the conditions for mutual respect, not mutual accusation.

Mr. Pearl, a professor of computer science at the University of California, Los Angeles, is president of the Daniel Pearl Foundation (www.danielpearl.org1) and co-editor of "I am Jewish: Personal Reflections Inspired by the Last Words of Daniel Pearl" (Jewish Lights, 2004).

URL for this article:
[Link: online.wsj.com...]

Hyperlinks in this Article:
(1) [Link: www.danielpearl.org...]

After reading the suggestions for lawyers for these cretins I would suggest Johnny Cochran.

He has represented a client with a similar MO in the past, and he could rhyme some new, catchy on-liners:

" If you can't find the knife, you can't take their life."

" You committed abuse, so there won't be no noose."

JM

#127 Jakester,

Actually you and Bono are both wrong, in an interesting way. AIDS prevention and terror-fighting have a lot to do with each other. In fact, the only way we'll stop the AIDS pandemic is if we win the war on terrorism and repair the societies where terrorism and AIDS are prevalent.

For example, many of the terroristic militiamen of Sierra Leone, Sudan, and the rest of the Africa are infected. In each of these wars, rape is a weapon. In each of these wars, the surviving victims end up with AIDS.

Consider the correlations: Islamofascism and military dictatorships--male promiscuity--powerless women--sexual mutilation--ignorance--illiteracy--polygamy--poor medical systems--unfree economies--slavery--AIDS. You might not see all of these in the same country: Burma is fascist but not Islamofascist. But much of these things go together.

Winning the WoT is a necessary precondition to solving the AIDS crisis.

zulubaby, do you think julianne was thiago in drag?

Just to pile onto 145: I am a former army NCO, served during the First Gulf War, and scored 290+ on all of my PT tests (could do 105 pushups in two minutes, in case you were wondering). Am I allowed to speak favorably about the war now?

In reference to 221: What the hell is wrong with hamburgers? I mean, really ... is Churrasco that much healthier?

Dang, now I'm hungry

Ni

joshowitz5:

From your handle, I assume you are of Polish extraction. Poland has been in the middle of wars to prevent worldwide conquest by totalitarian ideologies over the past 90 or so years. Fascism, Communism and now Islam all are one and the same in their aims and their hostility to freedom.

In the earlier global conflicts, freedom was existentially threatened. In the current conflict, there remains an exitential threat -- Muslims are threatened.