They said many Americans still know little or nothing about Islam.

That's why CAIR officials haven't been thrown out of the country yet.

We're turning into the UK.

“(But) to judge by the media coverage, you would think there’s a Muslim terrorist around every corner.”

If they build the mosque, there will be.

Yet...

"Freedom of Religion" is one of our guarantees. Let 'm build a mosque. Make sure it is full of surveillance bugs and such, to keep an eye on them. If they have nothing to hide, then they have nothing to fear.

GoatGuy

My god, people. I knew this was coming, but so soon?

So soon after September 11, 2001?

It's gonna be a long, hot, bloody summer.

My mind boggles at the thought of what would happen if a Jewish group behaved in that fashion trying to build a synagogue.

If the State Dept., arabists have sold their souls does it mean that Middle America must too?

If the folks up there around Chicago way are really serious , then what should be done ,if the Mosque is indeed built , is to assign perpetual monitors on all sermons& activities 24/7 .

We'll see what islam is all about . And make it public .

Hey they've GOT NOTHING TO HIDE ,..right ?

Synagogs DO have to fight for the right to build in new communities: Orlando Rabbi Fights for the right

And they often loose, as R. Konikov did. Is this racist?

Is it racist to not want a loud speaker going off at 2am in the morning? What a load of horse *****!

What is racist, is to acuses someone of alterior motives every time they disagree with you, just because they are white.

Oh wait, I forgot, you can't be racist against a honkey.

They said many Americans still know little or nothing about Islam

That's the point! But what we DO know about Islam is scaring the hell out of us!

I'm just curious, instead of calling opponents "racists" and "bigots," were any of the CAIR officials, without any caveats, denouncing the Islamic fanaticism against which our country is now AT WAR?

Incidentally, maybe Muslims should learn a little or something about Americans.

I won't just sit here and accept Muslim sprawl without a fight...

I'm serious.

“Sometimes people don’t even realize the concerns they have are fueled by prejudices,” said Rabiha Ahmed, spokeswoman for the council. “But you can’t (defeat a mosque plan) if you’re openly racist. So, they come up with issues like noise and traffic and parking to hide their real issues.”

My real issue is dar al-islam. Your edict, not mine.

Sincerely,

A dar al-harb.

People take the battle to the wrong places. Why waste time on new / bigger mosques? It does seem like bigotry.

Fight the battle to keep sharia of the legal system. Track terrorists. Fighting mosques hurts these efforts.

Two and one-half years on and it seems our public officials have forgotten the lessens of September 11th. The blood is on their hands when something terrible happens, as I am fearing more and more that it will.

#7 Excalibur:

If the folks up there around Chicago way are really serious , then what should be done ,if the Mosque is indeed built , is to assign perpetual monitors on all sermons& activities 24/7 .

Would that it were that easy, as I am sure that services are locked down to anyone not known directly as a member of the mosque's 'congregation'. The FBI probably has people doing that already.

I live in a Chicago suburb too. I should go there to check out the new Mosque with a bag of rotten eggs and some pork juice. What a buncha fagbags.

Let's get off the race card. Islam is not a race. How many times do we have to remind ourselves. We should only have to remind the people screaming "Racism!". Everytime someone calls another "racist" for opposing Islam, we should just reply, "Islam is not a race", which is clearly obvious once presented.

And to be a bigot, you must have "unreasoning attachment of one's own belief and opinions". Key word is UNREASONING.

Unwelcome because of radicalism, yes.

@4 Goatguy

And just who do you think will be building the mosque the locals? I don't think so. This mosque will like most of the newest ones built, it will be a virtual fortress.
They know what is coming, they're preparing for it.
Any of you don't think it's not going to get bloody here, you are asleep.

Firey Celt: I'm glad to see you're still lurking. :)

ZuzuBebe -

Yes, we are. We're turning into a fine old republic that is trying, like Britain to balance the fundamental freedoms that were fought for, tooth-n-nail by our founding fathers [and many after them] against the fundamental desires for security, secular largesse and personal wealth. This is not a bad thing.

The Brits have done a fine job integrating millions of Indians and Pakistanis into their cities, far better than say the French or Germans. The Brits have not 'salted them away' in outflung 'urbs', ghettos of sorts, which range from lawless to worse, as have many of the other European countries. I hope the same for America.

Not many people have had direct "immigrant" experience, with the newest Americans. In my youth, I was a tutor to a passel of Vietnamese, who had the hardest time with English. No matter, through friendship, patience, and getting enthusiastic about fermented fish sauce and dried squid, the cultural "gap" was bridged. I often wondered how their house of 17 [in a structure more suited for a family of 4] was going to integrate into the American way. Well, they did, and well. One owns a rather profitable if a bit seedy shoe repair outlet, another owns a lovely if bit seedy Vietnamese resturant. They've gotten the "next generation" family size down to something reasonable, and are all trying to get ahead, educated, etc. Further, they lust for Lincolns and Cadillacs, instead of BMW's and Benzs. More being cut back into the economy.

If we can find a way to fully integrate the Muslims that we have, in such a mutually beneficial way, then I say "let 'em be". But I also meant what I said above about surviellance. And, the surveillance need be no more "stiff" than the right to enter and attend any religious service, by any religion, for any citizen, regardless of their faith. No secret Mormon chambers, no secret Presbyterian rites. No secrets, period.

GoatGuy

“Sometimes people don’t even realize the concerns they have are fueled by prejudices,” said Rabiha Ahmed, spokeswoman for the council.

I confess. I have this unshakable, irrational prejudice against being killed in my bed.

I know I should find a good therapist who can help me work out that Muslims won't neccesarrily follow the commands of the Koran.

Praise be to Allah -

... and a mosque full of self-loathing death cultists.

just practising...

OT: (total OT)
the earth is brightening and possibly cooling:

[Link: www.newsday.com...]

such charming religion and people

/not

OT: Can some of our Israeli friends tell me which checkpoint the following article is talking about??? Thanks.

The Perils of American Micro-management - Ben Caspit (Maariv-Hebrew, 25 May 04)
Prior to becoming Head of Central Command at the end of 2002, Gen. Moshe Kaplinsky served as military secretary to Prime Minister Sharon.
During a meeting with an American delegation, the U.S. requested the removal of an IDF checkpoint and, despite its concerns, the prime minister's office agreed.
A few hours later a suicide bomber passed through the abandoned checkpoint and committed an attack that resulted in many casualties.
At the next meeting with the Americans, Uri Shani, then the prime minister's bureau chief, and Kaplinsky explained how the attack happened.
Kaplinsky was asked, "Are you accusing us here of responsibility for this attack in which people were killed?"
Kaplinsky pounded on the table and said: "Yes. That's exactly what I'm accusing you of."

9.30: And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

That was from chapter 9: The Immunity... of the Koran .....

It's not a religion I care to know anymore about. Should I try and understand the KKK better? How about the 3rd Reich ? Just because a person has unease about the philosophy and followers of a philosophy that has killed thousands of his countries people ... does not imply an ignorance of said philosophy.

CAIR is the pravda of Islamo-Fascism

home of the odious neanderthal

LOL!

“Churches and synagogues don’t have to do a PR campaign to build their houses of worship,” she said. “(But) to judge by the media coverage, you would think there’s a Muslim terrorist around every corner.”

Er, excuse me, ma'am---but aren't we being warned about a possible terrorist attack on the way, carried out by cells already in the US? They may not be on every corner---but they're here. So, don't give us the standard "HA, HA DEFENSE"!

(You know how the standard LLL "HA, HA DEFENSE" goes, Lizardoids; "Ha, ha, you think there's a terrorist on that corner? Ha, ha, you really think if the Vietcong win they'll send people to re-education camps? "Ha, ha, you really think there'll be genocide in Cambodia, hahahahahah, silly people, hahahahahah!")

I once attended an Episcopal Church which was trying to get a new church built, and I'll tell you right now, Christian churchs DO have to do PR campaigns to get built! And, I'm sure, synagogues do too.

Oh, and by the way, this church had to agree not to ring its bell too loudly, or too often, to avoid offending the neighbors. (I guess blasting out the Moslem call to prayer would have been okay.)

To tell you the truth guys---I want to cry.---I am crying.

This is my home!!!!

I feel that we have lost our right to question decisions by our government officials.

The way they behaved last night toward any type of dissent, makes me believe that many of them (village board) were bought off in one way or another.

No dissent was allowed!

The Mayor's secretary hung up on me this morning. when I asked about any affiliations to the Bridgeview Mosque, or Wahhabi Funding---"We are not allowed to ask"

Officials in nearby Palos fought the building of a Mosque (and are still fighting in court) because of because of the affiliations of some of it's proponents to Hamas.)

There is also another mosque being built ony a few miles away, in Frankfort (on St. Francis Road, across from the convent) ---We can't find out who is funding it!

This is a full court press! we residents are not allowed to question or resist any of this!

Maybe, you lgfers can get some answers---THE ONLY INFORMATION WE ARE GIVEN IS THE RIGHT TO READ THE MINUTES FROM THE MEETING THRU THE FREEDOM OF INFO ACT.

Mayor McLaughlin's Office at (708) 403-6100

Email Village of Orland Park Officials at officials@orland-park.il.us

Good job, Charles. You've posted another excuse for your regulars to vent their Islamophobic spleens.

To your other sins, you can now add that of being a NIMBY (NOT IN MY BACK YARD). This is not a term of endearment.

(#2) zulubaby

We're turning into the UK.

As long as they keep handing over their Abu Hamzas, if they won't prosecute those types themselves, then at least we're still on the right track.

I'm sure most of the U.K. will be happy to have him off their island.

Maybe the tide will turn there yet. Although, people (either us or them) need to start building cases against that Magnificent 19 group as well.

This isn't just an islamic problem. Most every church expansion I've seen has brought some consternation & sniping from the community. And usually it's about parking, congestion, and the like.

These are, in fact, serious concerns. Mid-sized to large churches tend to attract large numbers of people. They have to park somewhere. As parking lots are expensive, oftentimes that means they're parking on the street in front of somebody's house. This generally occurs two to three nights a week due to middle-of-the-week services, athletic leagues, boy scout meetings and the like.

With all these people, you end up with traffic congestion & noise.

Add suicide bombers to the mix, and I wouldn't want one in my back yard either.

Helluva place to open a BBQ joint, though.

Gordon

"Islamophobic" another over-reaching kin to "homophobic" and all the rest. Get off it. Islamic extremists killed thousands. I do not fear them, but I'm very very angry at them. I'm not Islamophobic, I'm Islamopissed.

Find a new word that doesn't stretch the truth.

#25: Gordon

Classically, NIMBY is used to refer to those essential but unsavory, unpleasant, or otherwise property value reducing elements of our society: prisons, waste dumps, homes for drug abusers or the mentally ill, halfway homes for pregnant teens or abused wives, homes for the retarded.

You seem to be putting mosques in this category. Interesting.

Islamophobic spleens?

I think it's only reasonable that we are concerned about the funding for the mosque and the vile speech coming from the neighboring mosque. Not to mention that the local citizens have their right to live in peaceful and quiet environment, without any religion dominating the sound waves.

I'm interested in Fiery Celt's report that 5 US citizens were thrown out of a public meeting for returning the shouts of the Muslims. Sounds like the City is endorsing Islam to me when CAIR can should and insult and is supported by the City. Sounds like US citizens were denied First Amendment rights and it sounds like, once again, government used physicial force to silence non-muslims.

I am sure the ACLU will be all over these outrages.

Not.

Undoubtedly, The Daily Southland does not know what CAIR is, what it stands for, and its ties to terrorism. They are duped. I'm at work, otherwise I'd send them this link. The Southland's email contacts are clearly stated on their site.

[Link: www.anti-cair-net.org...]

#25 Gordon -- "Good job, Charles. You've posted another excuse for your regulars to vent their Islamophobic spleens."

No, Charles posted another excuse for you to vent your Infidelophobic spleen.

At least US mosques are easy to raid

Sta-Puft

I live in a neighborhood with a large chruch. They have a parking lot, but from time to time they have some sort of raves for underprivileged kids, which almost inevitably result in some sort of police interaction. Whatever event they have -- there is no parking on the street. Neighbors hate them with a passion, but at least they are not Saudi-funded.

You've posted another excuse for your regulars to vent their Islamophobic spleens.

My name is Rufus. And I'm an Islamaphobe.

I know that I have no right to think that I am among those 4 million Americans the jihadists have recently revowed to kill. and have made ample strides toward accomplishing. Even though the world is awash in Muslim incited wars, the odds are good that I won't go down in flames personally. At least this round.

By believing in the higher power of self loathing I can be geanted the widom and grace to overcome this derisive attitude to those peaceful worshippers whose scritpture and fellow parishioners only condemns to ruthless death the Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs, aetheists and agnostics among us, while merely bestowing oppressive servitude to those Jews and Christians who forcibly convert their wicked ways.

No more will I fall into the arrogance of demanding my own freedom to worship and breathe.

I have been bestowed the gift of rising above this all by my effete, diversity-adoring superiors. Though I humby recognize that I will always be an Islamaphobe.

I can tell you that in any self-respecting zoning hearing involving any kind of religious institution, a person who brings up issues related to their dislike of the religion being proposed to be practiced in the facility are bringing issues completely and rightfully irrelevant to the zoning hearing.

I've seen it in other circumstances involving LDS Stake Houses and Jehovah's Witnesses Kingdom Halls, and I can tell you that it is a sickening display when it occurs. If I or any half-way professional person were running a zoning hearing and some nitwit like Fiery Celt got up and said "Deny the permit because Islam is evil" I would throw them out of the hearing too.

#6 Barry

If the State Dept., arabists have sold their souls

They can't sell what they never had.

Half OT, half on-topic:

This is what the president of Muslims Against Terrorism wrote in my local paper, the Mississauga News:

Muslims Against Terrorism, along with organizations such as the Canadian Islamic Congress, the Islamic Supreme Council of Canada and CAIR (Centre for American-Islamic Relations) routinely denounce violence and terrorism through press releases and media communiques.
The Mississauga News has received many such pronouncements from us and has covered our events and activities from time to time. We also conduct workshops to promote a correct understanding of concepts such as Jihad and defensive warfare in Islam.
Just as Muslims are involved in countering extremism in their community, fellow Canadians must also combat hatred towards Canadian Muslims. Our country has enjoyed a long tradition of tolerance and harmony, but recent months have witnessed a gradual erosion of these cherished values.
It is our collective responsibility to ensure that Canada remains the model of civility, racial harmony and religious tolerance for other nations to emulate. MP Carolyn Parrish is devoted to achieving this end. Her efforts should be applauded.

Many of you will recall Carolyn Parrish as the Liberal MP who referred to Americans as "bastards," and who tirelessly does her best to chip away t Israel.

@25 Gordon

How much candy did you give out on 9.11 Gordon?

You think/believe we should all just go back to sleep, the sleep of death. When did you start hating this country? When did you start hating being an American?

Whose going to have YOUR back when all hell breaks loose here?

Class - please turn to page 17 of the Garden Variety Leftist Handbook, and repeat after me:
Islamofascists who kill innocent non-combatants should be tolerated in a PC manner. Islam is a religion of peace and Islamists never hide weapons nor do they ever funnel money to Hamas or any other terrorist organizations in their pristine Mosques.. Even if they did, so what, those Jews have no right to be there and America with and R at the helm deserves all the bad press it can take. Furthermore, individual Islamists and Islamic groups who wish to operate peacefully are not expected or required to apologize and explain themselves regarding the terror that is committed in the name of their religion. The rest of the world should understand why Islam murders and remove limbs in the name of Allah.
It is we who must accept blindly that Islam is a religion of peace.

OT: EU clinches landmark trade accord with Syria

[Link: news.ft.com...]

Financial Times, UK

It stipulates that Syria must implement all international non-proliferation accords, co-operate on countering the proliferation of WMD and set up effective controls for the export, transit and end-use of WMD-related goods and technologies. If not, then the trade accord would be suspended.

Gordon,

That's right ! Not in my backyard!

Once more you have betrayed you ignorance!

Muslims in Bridgeview were celebrating after September 11th-

The Bridgeviw Mosque is a radical Wahhabist organization that openly supports Hamas and Palistinian Islamic Jihad!

Here are some examples of the Leadership and terrorist front of the Brigdeview Mosque---

PEOPLE CONNECTED TO THE MOSQUE FOUNDATION;

Bassam Osman
[Syrian Educated Neurologist; Chairman, North American Islamic Trust; Past Director of Oak Lawn based Quranic Literacy Institute; Registered Agent of Dow Jones Islamic Fund; Ties to Palestinian Islamic Jihad]

Sabri Samirah
[Exiled Jordanian; Past Director of Islamis Assn. for Palestine; American Muslim Society;
Member of Middle Eastern League for Palestine; 1998 started Islamic voter registration group called United Muslim American Foundation; Holds Masters Degree and PhD in Public Policy; Greeted First Lady Laura Bush during Chicago visit]

Mohammad Salah
[Only current American Citizen to make Fed. list of Most Wanted Islamic Terrorists; Used Quranic Institute to launder money for Hamas; Salah was fired from his job at the City Colleges of Chicago and the Chicago Public Schools for failure to report conviction and time spent in Israeli Prison]

Mousa Abu Marzook
[Palestinian native; Lived in U.S. for 20 years; High Ranking leader of Political-Wing of Hamas; Chairman of Islamic Assn. for Palestine; Founder and President of United Assn. for Studies and Research...command center for Hamas in the U.S.; Association with Holy Land Foundation; Deported to Jordan , now believed to be in Syria]

Rafeeq Jaber
Palestinian Financial Planner, lives in Oak Lawn; Board of Directors Bridgeview Mosque Foundation and former President; Current Leader of Islamic Assn. for Palestine; and the Palos Hills based American Muslim Society]

JAMAL SAID
Saudi educated Jordanian Imam of the Bridgeview Mosque for the last 18 years. Fundamentalist Wahhabi Cleric drove out moderate Muslims from the Mosque when he assumed leadership in 1985;

Holds great influence within the closed-knit Islamic community in the area.Assumed leadership two years after the title was turned over toth North American Islamic Trust]

"The Mosque leadership believes in a certain ideological school of thought, the people who are religious but not political have a conflict with them"

----------------------------

SEVERAL NONPROFIT ORGANIZATIONS WITH DIRECT AND INDIRECT TIES TO THE MOSQUE FOUNDATION IN BRIDGEVIEW HAVE COME UNDER SCRUTINY FOR ALLEGED TIE WITH PALESTINIAN TERRORISM SUCH AS HAMAS AND ISLAMIC JIHAD.

ISLAMIC ASSOCIATION FOR PALESTINE
Registered as corporation in Texas
Now operates out of a suite of offices in Palos Hills.
Operates extensive website;
[Link: www.iap.org...]
[Link: www.iap.org...]
Jewish Groups and Conservative Watch dogs have long accused the IAP of being the "propanda arm' of Hamas.
US INS affadavit concludes large amts of money transferred to IAP and sister org, Middle Eastern League for Palestine from a joint bank acct, of high ranking Hamas operatives, Mousa Abu Marzook and Ismael Elbarrase.

HOLY LAND FOUNDATION

Once the largest Muslim charity in the United States.
Had its assets frozen on Dec.2001, for alleged funding of Hamas
.During 2000, the last full year of operations for the HLF, it brought in 13 million dollars in donations.
The foundation had 5 million when its assets were frozen.
According to court ruling this summer, the HLF has been closely aligned with Hamas since its inception, and gave money to entities controlled by and associated with Hamas.

Gor-don, I warned you about 'right thought and action"!
Prepare yourself!
I am sick to death of LGF being vilified as a hate-site, and Charles descibed as a hate-monger, a neanderthal, 'vitriolic', a Nazi (?!?), etc. etc.
Let's see if you can pass Twisterella's Test:

Utram bibis? Aquam an Undam?

I'll translate for the latinless.

Which are you drinking? The Water or the Wave?

I'm drinking the Wave, even though it spin me around, smash me, or raise me to dizzying heights! You can have your flat, chlorinated, processed bottled water!

LGF is the Wave.

#29: It's a sad commentary, but true. NIMBY's now object to anything they think might have ANY negative impacts on their sacrosanct property values. And that now includes religious institutions. It even now includes parks, because "unsavory characters" might come to them and then terrorize the surrounding neighborhood.

They said many Americans still know little or nothing about Islam.

I know all I need to know.

Is that mosquito still buzzing around here? I mean, it's nothing important, but still, where's the can of Raid?

MORE ISLAMIC NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATIONS LINKED TO THE BRIDGEVIEW MOSQUE FOUNDATION...

AMERICAN MIDDLE EASTERN LEAGUE FOR PALESTINE
Before its collapse last year The American Middle Eastern League shared it director with the Much larger Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR).
According to Israeli sources, former AMELP director. Ismael Elbarasse, has been IDed as a high ranking Hamas operative. He and Hamas Political Cheif, Mousa Abu Marzook funneled funds to Mohammed Salah, then onto Hamas.
FBI states AMELP recieved money from Holy Land Foundation Director, Basman Elashi, who was indicted fot Texas based money laundering.
Lat Month a default judgement was entered against AMELP for failure to respond to a lawsuit filed by a familt of a Jewish teen killed by a Hamas attack.

QURANIC LITERACY INSTITUTE
Epicenter of 1990's investigation into money laundering for Middle Eastern terrorism;
Served as cover for Hamas operative and terrorist Mohammed Salah.
This Oak Lawn based Institute and Swiss bank accts. allegedly served to funnel nearly 1 million dollars from Saudi millionare Yassin Kadi, who has since been designated an Intl. terrorist.
Money was used to finance a huge housing development in Woodridge,Ill and the profits were used to fund Hamas.
Because of it's tax exempt status as a regestered church, the Quranic Literacy Institute is not required to file with the IRS.
According to Fed. Court documents the QLI transfewrred huge sums of money before its assets were frozen by the gov't.
The family of an American teen killed by Hamas have sued to claim part of the frozen assets as damages.

THE NORTH AMERICAN ISLAMIC TRUST
[Link: www.nait.net...]
A subsidiary of the Islamic Society of North America,
[Link: www.isna.net...]
The North American Islamic Trust holds titles to nearly one third of the Mosques and Islamic centers in the U.S.
NAIT is a nat'l. corp. registered in Burr Ridge, Ill., because of its status as a church, it is not required to file financial papers with the IRS.
With its parent org. the INSA, is supported directly by the Saudi Gov't.
The NAIT has come under fire for spreading Saudi financed Wahhabism throughout the U.S.
The NAIT also holds title to the Islamic Academy of Fla.. that is currently under indictment for supporting Islamic Jihad.

AMERICAN MUSLIM SOCIETY

Shares a board of Directors with several Islamic orgs.
Recent court documents confirm that the Palos Hills Office of the AMS served as the nat'l headquarters for the Islamic Assn. for Palestine, which transferred large amts. of funds from its Dallas office to the AMS and the American Middle Eastern League for Palestine since 1996.
As part of Federal Civil Lawsuit, which alleges that AMS along with the IAP published Hamas propaganda. AMS was forced to turn over 18,000 pages of documents.

Parents of Slain American Teen File Suit Against Hamas

Since there seem to be some Chicagoians on this thread, may I invite you to email me for specifics on the LGF meetup on Thursday, June 17th, in the Clark and Belmont area? Of course out-of towners who are in town at that time are welcome, too.

What is the point of the confusing phrase: "5 US Citizens"?

Were they locals, or out of town instigators? Or does it imply most of the people who want to build the mosque are not US citizens? I'm sure the writer had an purpose in mind, just can't figure it out.

Somebody said this on the earlier Hamtramck thread, but it bears repeating: it's truly astonishing that even here on LGF, of all places, so many people still refuse to understand what this is all about, and get entangled instead in meaningless nitpicking about noise ordinances, zoning etc.

Yes, adhan is loud, obnoxious and intrusive. But that not the main problem with it. If it were, say, Buddhist call to prayer (is there such a thing?), then we could've sat back and discussed the finer points of the First Amendment, noise regualtions, community standards etc.

But it's not. It stands for much larger and MUCH more dangerous thing.

Islam is at war with us. With every inch given to it by spineless and/or clueless idiots, its front advances. Islam is here to destroy us, our way of life, every single thing we value. That is its modus operandi. It knows no other.

Why church bells should be a non-issue? Because Christianity is not at war with us. Islam, however liars and dhimmis try to spin it, is.

Wake the fuck up, people.

(Forgive the less than coherent post, but it just gets me too much that the above is not blindingly obvious to all LGFers -- fuck, to all honest and decent Americans.)

Not completely OT, but the Vatican is worried about Christians moving out of Bethlehem, Israel in general, and Muslims moving in.

#39 Mississauga Matt

(slaps head while responding to own post)

I forgot to write that while I think that letter has lots of goodies - CAIR denouncing terrorism, the meaning of Jihad, defensive war, yada, yada - I really liked:

... Our country has enjoyed a long tradition of tolerance and harmony, but recent months have witnessed a gradual erosion of these cherished values.

Translation: Well I can't prove that Muslims have come under fire, but that doesn't stop me from saying so.

#31 StopHillary: The First Amendment does not give anyone the right to disrupt a public hearing on a zoning matter with abusively-presented concerns which are not specific issues related to the zoning ordinance itself. Normally, the hearing authority will inform the person testifying that their concerns about Muslim terrorism are irrelevant to the criteria upon which the zoning decision must be made, and that they must limit their testimony to relevant issues. Most zoning codes give the hearing authority the right to expel abusive or disruptive people from the hearing.

I wasn't there, so I can't comment on the behavior of the CAIR members. If they were shouting down testimony on traffic and other legitimate issues related to the siting of a religious institution, they should have been expelled from the meeting too.

If I or any half-way professional person were running a zoning hearing and some nitwit like Fiery Celt got up and said "Deny the permit because Islam is evil" I would throw them out of the hearing too.

So, Gordon, it is not okay for someone to pick on Islam and want them shut out - but it is okay for you to call Fiery Celt a nitwit and shut her out?

#40 Quark2: When did you stop being an American and start advocating demonizing an entire race or religion because of the actions of a small minority?

Go back to Iran. Your belief system will be welcome there.

#45

Gordon, where do you live??? In a nice neighborhood, or in a 'hood??? And I do agree with you, property values ARE SACROSANCT. Do you own a home??? If not, STFU. If you do, would you like to see your hard-earned money (hypothetically) wasted??? Since you feel that individual property rights are "sacrosanct" (obviously a facetious remark) you must be a socialist/leftist. And again I say STFU.

It's a sad commentary, but true. NIMBY's now object to anything they think might have ANY negative impacts on their sacrosanct property values.

What utter cheek to strive to preserve the status quo in what you have invested in. Any newcomer should be able to redefine the ambience of a residential area into a hotbed of agitation and extremist beliefs by any transients from afar wishing tio make their mark therein.

Those homeowning bastards deserve every iota of paralyzing disgarce at being called NIMBY. You NIMBYistic NIMBYoids. Burn in NIMBY hell.

In a long discussion with a truly moderate Muslim (yes, they exist, albeit in a sort of dreamworld), I learned that once land has been purchased by the ummah for a mosque, it can never be converted to another purpose. Whatever the legal agency that purchases and holds the property, that property cannot under sharia be sold, turned into a hospital, etc. They must turn it into a mosque. If no one ever goes to the mosque, they can't convert it to something more useful to the surrounding community. There are other consequences of this law, but the crux of it is this--unless the state somehow finds a way to reclaim the property under something like eminent domain or other form of property forfeiture, these structures and their function will never go away once they are built, they will only continue to grow.

Fiery Celt,

I think that what is needed is a boycott by the local trade unions, construction companies and material suppliers. This is what a bunch of Christian fundies in Texas did to hamper the construction of an abortion clinic. It will be interesting to see if the unions go along with it. The rank and file claim to be patriots, even though their executives are pimps for the DNC.

does Gordon have a reply to post #43?
I'm guessing, no.

#55 Snopes: A blog thread and a quasi-judicial zoning hearing are two very different things.

#40 Quark2: When did you stop being an American and start advocating demonizing an entire race or religion because of the actions of a small minority

Like the el cubos and Euros are doing over Abu Grhaib?

Here you go Gorgo---More of what I don't want in my backyard!!!!

Federal authorities are investigating the Mosque Foundation in Bridgeview and its leaders for possible involvement in terror-related money laundering.

The house of worship, one of the largest Islamic centers in the Chicago area, has been under FBI surveillance for years, the Daily Southtown has learned.

A decade-old federal investigation, a landmark lawsuit filed three years ago and the government crackdown on Muslim charities after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks have served expose a complex web of small businesses and charitable associations accused of funneling money to Palestinian terrorist groups.

Federal agents, once discouraged from launching criminal inquiries into some terror-funding sources, now are nearing a critical stage in their probe into the heart of the Islamic community in and around Bridgeview.

One source familiar with the investigation said indictments could come by the end of the year.

Since the pale stone building with its large blue dome was built in 1981, its leaders and worshippers have known they're being watched, targeted because of their roots in the violent Middle East.

FBI agents attended prayers at the Mosque Foundation for years before the 9-11 terrorist attacks, and now find themselves the focus of surveillance by lookouts from the mosque along 93rd Street who take note of unfamiliar cars driving into the neighborhood off Harlem Avenue and parking on the narrow streets at prayer times.

Almost immediately after 9-11, federal agents arrested, indicted, deported or detained dozens of figures accused of financially supporting terrorism overseas. Three of the nation's largest Muslim charities — all with offices in the southwest suburbs — were shut down.

In the renewed effort to cut the flow of money from the United States to groups deemed terrorist organizations by the U.S. government, federal agents in the past two years have found plenty of work within the southwest suburbs' Islamic community. Connections have been alleged between men here and Osama bin Laden's terrorist network, the terrorist group Islamic Jihad, and Saddam Hussein's regime.

Although the recent take-downs have not struck directly at the mosque in Bridgeview, members of its leadership have long been targets of a probe into the funding of Palestinian militant group Hamas. A federal civil lawsuit and an FBI affidavit have raised allegations of an illicit terrorist fundraising ring that includes powerful members of the local Islamic community connected to the mosque.

The Mosque Foundation's leaders know they're under increased examination.

"We would be naive," said Mosque Foundation president Osama Jammal, "to think we are not being investigated or that we are not targets."

Jammal and other mosque officials refused to discuss imam Sheikh Jamal Said or his leadership. He said many people within the mosque may be sympathetic to Palestinians but not to Hamas.

Jammal defended what he described as donations to various overseas charities through the mosque, totaling as much as $1 million.

Charities are permitted to come to the mosque and solicit during religious observances since charity is one of the five pillars of Islam, Jammal said.

"Any organization that is registered with the U.S. as a (non-profit), and it is known that they are a credible organization, they can come in and talk to our members," he said.

Jammal denied that anyone associated with the mosque supported Hamas or any other militant organization.

"People here are Palestinians, and they feel sad about what happens in their country," Jamal said. "That's their right; it's a right given to everyone by God. But you cannot have the exclusive right to be concerned about your people and everybody else can go to hell."

Old Yellowstain is "infidelophobic." Good.

Hey Andy in Agoura Hills (#57). I bet someone's property values went down when your ugly subdivision was erected. Should it have been denied because of that?

Biggest mosque in the midwest? Bigger even than the The Islamic Center of Greater Toledo?

If anyone has driven north up I-75, just before Toledo, you find this HUGE monstrosity sitting in the middle of nowhere.

I too would be worried about my property's value. These things are gaudy, ostentatious and obviously not in harmony with the neighborhood's architecture.

Gordon

When did you stop being an American and start advocating demonizing an entire race or religion because of the actions of a small minority?

Since reading the Koran, which you obviously have not bothered to do before spouting off about it, I have realized the blatanatly anti-Americanism anti religious freedom ethos which each and every Muslim who daily embraces that book presumably follows.

You need to educate yourself.

Apparently, Gordon believes he's the only one without sin on LGF.

Gordo "Old Yellowstain:" The country is at war, so keep dropping those die markers.

#61: In response to Fiery Celt's rants about the Bridgeview Mosque, the response is to investigate whether unlawful activities are going on there and make some arrests if they are. Just as if some Church youth group members were drug-dealing in the parking lot on Sunday evenings.

#57 Andy in Agoura Hills:

I'm interested in the answer to that, but you will not get one; the GordFOAD just shows up to yap, not to converse. Unless some other troll is around, then a dark and smelly bonding immediately occurs.

All you'll get is snot.

Bridgeview Mosque Continued....

Major mosque

Since its founding more than two decades ago, the Bridgeview mosque has been an important focal point for an immigrant Islamic community. There are about 400,000 Muslims in the Chicago area, and about 40 mosques and Islamic community centers, according to the Council of Islamic Organizations of Greater Chicago.

"It is one of three or four major mosques in the Chicago area, along with the Islamic Foundation in Villa Park, the (North Side) Muslim Community Center and the Northbrook Islamic Cultural Center," said Mohammed Kaiseruddin, former chairman of the council. "Everybody recognizes it to be the fourth big one."

Its past is no less fraught with controversy than its present.

Built in 1981, the $1.3 million building became the subject of a lawsuit shortly after it opened.

In 1973, the Mosque Foundation and the American-Arabian Ladies Society purchased the plot of land at 7360 W. 93rd St. for $50,000, and both groups worked to raise money for construction.

But before the mosque was completed, the Mosque Foundation transferred its title to the North American Islamic Trust, a subsidiary of the Islamic Society of North America, the country's largest Muslim group.

The Islamic trust now owns nearly a third of all mosques and Muslim centers in the United States, many of them acquired in the 1980s through funds provided by the Saudi government.

The American-Arabian Ladies Society protested what they saw as a "takeover" of their mosque by a conservative school of thought within Islam known as Wahhabism, saying moderate Muslims were being driven out of the community.

The ladies lost, and the mosque title remains part of the Islamic trust headed by a Burr Ridge neurologist who runs an Islamic investment group and has had at least one documented run-in with the Internal Revenue Service for nearly $50,000 in unpaid federal income taxes.

The socially strict state religion of Saudi Arabia, Wahhabism spread by the powerful North American Islamic Trust has likely brought increased government scrutiny wherever it is practiced. Several East Coast officials have heavily criticized the sect, noting that a majority of the 9-11 hijackers were Saudi.

"Wahhabism is an extremist, exclusionary form of Islam that not only denigrates other faiths but also marginalizes peaceful followers of Islam like the Shia and moderate Sunnis," U.S. Sen. Charles Schumer (D-New York) told a Senate judiciary subcommittee hearing on terrorism earlier this month. "More importantly, they are allowed to recruit disciples who pose a tremendous threat to Americans everywhere."

Imam a controversial figure

The Bridgeview mosque's imam since 1985 has been Said, a Jordanian-born cleric sent to the United States to minister to a growing Islamic community here.

Said brought a conservative school of Islamic thought to the mosque, drove out moderate Muslims and divided the community with his political activities, his critics claim.

He's a cleric who holds great influence within the community but is almost unknown outside it.

Area religious leaders praise Said and say he has tried to defuse tension within his own community. But his critics say he has turned the mosque's focus away from local projects and toward Palestinian causes that attract unwanted government attention.

But outside the protective circle of the Palestinian-Jordanians who make up more than 80 percent of the southwest suburban immigrant Muslim community, there is considerable animosity for Said's leadership, said former FBI agent John Vincent, a 27-year bureau veteran who investigated terrorism ties to the south suburbs.

There's a lot of resentment," Vincent said. "People grumble about the amount of money they think he has. The moderate Muslim wants to practice his religion and not interfere, and the radicals have take over

#66 Gordon: I'm waiting-- can you pass Twisterella's Test?

Gordo, you ignorant slut: When the marginal farmland of the San Fernando Valley was developed property values skyrocketed.

I'm thinking we missed a good chance to play Mr. Holland's Opus to the crowd in Chicagoland last night. But we still have time to put it into the DVD player and fire it up.

#72 me:

I win! I win! I win! neenerneenerneener!

///Gordamatic off////

#66

What an asinine statement. First answer my questions. Second, what ugly subdivision??? Third, whose property values dropped???

#76 steve miller:

You are, of course correct. No feedo el trollo.

It sounds like local officials are being bribed to silence any critics of the Moslem agenda--in the Michigan suburbs, in the Chicago suburbs, and likely in other towns we haven't heard about.

But why aren't local residents going after their corrupt officials--they can recall them, sue them, picket them, etc. We have options, but they have to be exercised. Complaining privately won't do squat. Organizing for action and then acting publicly will.

It's time patriotic Americans started taking action, with the knowledge that we may have to also act against corrupt officials at the local, state and federal levels.

Psst. Andy. It's no use. Might as well try to argue with a cassette tape.

“Churches and synagogues don’t have to do a PR campaign to build their houses of worship,”

Wrong again, Islamo-pigs. Even in evil infidel America, even down here in the "Bible-Belt" South, churches in urban areas often must fight City Hall tooth and nail to build and/or renovate. I remember vividly a case in Shreveport, LA where Broadmoor Baptist Church wanted to close a small section of a neighborhood street to build a recreation hall and Sunday school/education building and expand their sanctuary. The City Council actually approved their zoning variance, but the local homeowners association (for reasons I still fail to understand) went psycho and launched a series of lawsuits to attempt to block the church's expansion. It got really ugly when both sides started accusing the other of being "un-Christian." Nobody got called racist or bigot to my knowledge.

A little FYI; Dr. Tim LaHaye, author of the Left Behind books, was inspired to get involved in politics and become a member of the "Religious Right" when HIS church was denied a zoning variance by the City Council of San Diego, and he discovered for the first time "that many of our public officials were openly hostile to Jesus Christ and His church and followers."

Once again, you guys demonstrate that YOU are different, YOU are special, YOU are ummah and WE are dhimmi, and our rules obviously do not, and never should, apply to you.

I'm all for freedom of religion. And I often think municipal zoning laws, while necessary, go waaaayyyyy overboard and often interfere with the God-given right of private citizens to do whatever they wish with their own property (within reason and the law, of course). But the fact of the matter is, it is often the Muslims and the mosques, not the communities they are located in, who are refusing to be good neighbors. I really can't blame the good citizens of Orland Park for their reluctance to welcome a mosque with open arms. I would feel much the same way, especially knowing what I know about the Saudi-Wahabbist support and ideology behind most of them.

Aminah McCloud, director of DePaul University’s Islamic World Studies program, said a lack of knowledge about the Muslim community makes it harder to break through people’s prejudices.

"Lack of knowledge"? I beg to differ. The "Muslim community" supports jihadis. Those individuals who do not are intimidated into silence and acquiesence.

I know that.

Reminder to all LFG lizardoid minions in the greater Chicago dar-ul-harb zone I mean area.

Go here to maintain the bulet resistance of your scales.

Bridgeview Mosque Continued...

Ali Alarabi, spokesman for an Arab advocacy group on Chicago's Southwest Side, echoed Vincent's comments about Said's divisiveness.

Alarabi, who once worshipped at the mosque but is now estranged from many of its members, said Said was more concerned about international events and politics than he was about the local Islamic community's needs.

"This is a long conflict within the community," said Alarabi, leader of the United Arab American League. "The mosque leadership believes in a certain ideological school of thought, and people who are religious but not political have a conflict with them."

Pre-Sept. 11 probes

Vincent's familiarity with the Bridgeview mosque began in 1993, when as an FBI agent based in Chicago, he followed the case of Bridgeview resident Mohammed Salah.

Salah was arrested and spent five years in an Israeli prison, accused of using a still-operating nonprofit Islamic organization based in Oak Lawn to funnel hundreds of thousands of dollars to Hamas.

Israeli authorities said one of the men assisting Salah, Mohammed Jarad, told them Said had sent him to give money to the Palestinian militant organization. Vincent and his partner, Robert Wright, were assigned to investigate possible terrorism ties in the south suburbs, including at the mosque.

The allegations made in Wright's 1998 affidavit about Salah's money-running for Hamas provided the basis of a 1998 government forfeiture action to seize $1.4 million in funds and property from Salah and the nonprofit Quranic Literacy Institute. That case, still pending after more than five years, was long ago put on hold by a federal judge as a grand jury criminal investigation into the facts of the case proceeded.

Although much of the allegedly illegal activity cited in the forfeiture complaint took place in the late 1980s and early 1990s, those allegations are still simmering.

The federal forfeiture case against Salah inspired a groundbreaking $300 million federal civil lawsuit filed in Chicago against several local Muslim groups on behalf of an American teen killed in a 1996 Hamas attack in the West Bank. That lawsuit, also still being fought in court, claims to expose a Hamas fundraising conspiracy formed by a collection of Islamic organizations based in the suburbs of Chicago, Dallas and Washington.

A federal appellate court in that case already has ruled that for the first time in the United States, those here who finance or otherwise aid terrorist groups can be sued for terrorist killings committed by other people on the other side of the world. Targeted in the lawsuit are members of the Bridgeview Islamic community, including Sabri Samirah, a current member of the mosque's board and a high-profile member who was recently exiled from the United States on government allegations he's a danger to U.S. national security. Samirah is living in Jordan.

In 1998, a grand jury had been convened in Chicago and was about to begin interviewing witnesses in the case when the FBI halted the investigation for reasons still unclear, said Vincent, who retired from the bureau after 9-11.

The Mosque Foundation has been under FBI surveillance for years, Vincent said, and such surveillance has only increased after 9-11.

"The FBI has had problems going in there for years," he said. "During the week they have people out on the corners doing counter-surveillance. It's a very insular community.

Since comparison was made to a church of a similar size here's a little more info.

The question I would have: Why then would they need 22,000 sq. ft to serve 150 regular worshipers --up to 500 during Ramadan. And, also they are only going to have a parking lot for 123? That's a huge building for a small congregation.

The church, which is about two miles southwest of the proposed mosque site, was originally similar to the mosque in square footage and congregation size. This said 20,000 square feet for a congregation of 1,400.

The 22,000-square-foot Orland Park Prayer Center is expected to draw 100 to 150 worshippers during peak weekly prayers at 1 p.m. Friday and only about a dozen for each of five daily prayer services during the other days. During holiday seasons, such as Ramadan, the building may have as many as 500 worshippers, mosque organizers said. In countering arguments about traffic: The mosque won't be adding anywhere near that number of cars to the road. The plan calls for a 123-space parking lot. [Link: www.dailysouthtown.com...]

It will be a "very, very small" congregation, Ali said, though he could not say how many people it might include. Mohamed Krad, another mosque backer, is donating part of the five-acre parcel he owns at 16530 104th Ave. for the two-story building.

[Link: www.starnewspapers.com...]

According to the above --they are putting 22,000 sq ft on LESS than 5 acres --on part of it. The article also states that it is currently on the market for sale --the entire 5 acres for a million plus. So, it doesn't sound like they are getting the ENTIRE 5 acres.

I did note that they are asking for a special use permit which means they likely cannot meet the zoning requirements with that large a building on that little land.

Andy, Old Yellowstain is a fount of asinine statements. You can be sure he won't back it up with tax records. His ignorance of economics is only equaled by his Islamophilia.

Great story We Game Them a Cup Didn't We?

I'm still in shock that it's from Haaretz.

(#54) Gordon

Let's say this was a zoning hearing for a casino, rather than a mosque (obviously assuming that gambling was legal in the jurisdiction). And let's say that many members of the community were against gambling as a corrupting influence in their community. In addition, let's say that many in the community - both for and against gambling - thought there was a chance that this particular casino might be funded by less than pure (read: mafia) interests.

Do you think they should be able to ask about the source of the funding of the casino or would they be limited to asking about noise, traffic and parking?

I don't have a problem with most mosques. I do have a problem with Saudi-funded Wahabbi mosques.

And the First Amendment doesn't protect all religious practices (read: ingesting peyote, polygamy, incest, etc...). Preaching jihad should be added to that category, if it isn't already, under a Chaplinsky reading of the 1st Amendment.

I have the same concerns for groups like Matt Hale's World Church of the Creator and other Aryan Nations types. A lot of what they do is protected by the First Amendment - but a lot also isn't. Wahabbism should be thought of in the same way, and it's more dangerous because there's much more money behind it and most Americans don't speak Arabic so they have no idea what's being said.

Bridgeview Mosque Continued

Under the sweeping new provisions of the USA Patriot Act, federal prosecutors can now use years of intercepted phone calls, e-mails and faxes collected by the intelligence community's secret surveillance wiretaps of subjects suspected of being agents of a "foreign power."

Before the 2001 legislation, intelligence gathered with the special wiretaps could not be used for criminal cases. If prosecutors wanted information on the same targets, they were supposed to get their own wiretap orders after meeting the higher legal burden of proving there was probable cause to suspect criminal activity.

The Patriot Act, passed shortly after 9-11, granted prosecutors access to years' worth of surveillance previously unavailable to them. The change in law paid off for the government in March with the indictment of Tinley Park resident Ghassan Ballut, accused by a federal grand jury in Florida of running the Chicago cell of terrorist group Palestinian Islamic Jihad.

And the secret intelligence wiretaps were also used to build a case against Khaled Abdel-Latif Dumeisi, the Arabic-language newspaper publisher from Oak Lawn accused of spying on local Baath Party dissidents for Saddam Hussein.

Following the money

Increasingly, the terrorism battle is being fought in office buildings by agencies with names like the Office of Foreign Asset Control and the Foreign Terrorist Asset Tracking Center, which are trying to trace the money used to pay for guns and bombs.

"When you think of an extremist group, you think about (white supremacist) Matt Hale and his followers, who went out into the community and killed people," said Aminah McCloud, a professor of religious studies at DePaul University.

McCloud often lectures at the mosque and its two affiliated schools. She said members of the Bridgeview Islamic community "keep their own counsel."

"They're not out plotting to overthrow the government," she said. "By that definition of extremist, I don't think anyone there is one."

The FBI hasn't targeted the mosque directly or shut it down because the actions of a few members don't warrant the stigmatizing of an entire religious organization, Vincent said.

"It's an institution, and a lot of good people go there," he said. "You don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water."

Chris Hack may be reached at chack@dailysouthtown.com or (708) 633-5984.

Allison Hantschel may be reached at ahantschel@dailysouthtown.com or (708) 633-5998.

-------------------------------------------------- ---------------

The Bridgeview Mosque was founded in 1981...It was primarily financed bi the American Arab Ladies League. Control was wrested for the moderate Muslims, when, immediately prior to opening, the title was transferred to the North American Islamic Trust, and the moderate Muslims were driven out from the mosque and the community....

Before the mosque was completed (1981) it was subject to a lawsuit by the American -Arabian Ladies Society ( the primary fundraiser for the mosque) and purchaser of the mosque site.

The Mosque title was transferred to the North American Islamic Trust...The Ladies Society felt that their mosque was being taken over by conservative Wahhabi elements, and the more moderate Muslims were being driven out of the community.

The American Arabian Ladies Society lost...

The North American Islamic Trust , a subsidiary of the Islamic Society of North America is the country's largest group.
The Islamic Trust now owns nearly one third of the Mosques and Muslim centers in the United States, many of these were aquired in the 1980's through funds provided by the Saudis

#54 Gordon

I wasn't there, so I can't comment on the behavior of the CAIR members

But yet you have no problem commenting on the behavior of the concerned citizens? Hypocrit.

Orland Park is certainly not the "hood". The average home is at least 200K with some areas having houses over 1M. I think the residents have every right to know who is funding this project that WILL change the landscape of their neighborhood.

Correction --

I made an error --the Parkland church was for a congretation of 500 --and they are expanding to 1400.

The mosque is for a congregation of 150 --up to a "possible" 500 during Ramandan.

GORDON!!!

Islam is NOT a religion - it's a political ideology!

And if you think the Wahabbis come to America and Europe in peace, you're sadly mistaken and know nothing of that ideology!

Q #51
That was me. Call it a technicality, but no knowledge of Islam is necessary to see that the call to prayer is unconstitutional. It's not like a cross on some seal nobody ever looks at, this is about the daily routine of the whole town being constructed around specific religion. The idea behind any call to praeyr -- Christian or Muslim -- is to put religion prominently into people's lives. However, Christian bells are ususally non-intrusive, unspecific and melodic. Today they are not necessarily associated with religion anyways. Some of the music composed for churches is now performed in completely secular environments. Church bells don't feature any lyrics that mention G-d. There is a completely secular bell tower on campus in Berkeley -- I'm sure on many other campuses across the country as well.

I don't understand why Muslims need to have special rights in this country.

A few youths dealing drugs is not the same as leaders of a mosque laundering money or funnleing money to terrorist groups or receiving funds from anti-U.S. groups. If you don't know the difference, you are an ignorant slut.

Citizens of a community have a right to have a say in what goes into their community. Compromises have to be made. Since Gordo brought up the LDS (Mormon) Church, it is true that they've had problems getting permission for the building of temples and churches in some areas. In Dallas, for instance, the members of the community were concerned about light pollution and building ordinances. The steeple of the proposed temple was taller than the local builidng ordinances allowed. So negotiations took place, and the LDS church agreed to decrease the heighth of the steeple.

Rather than screaming and whining and calling the people of the community racists and bigots, the LDS church compromised and worked out a solution that was agreeable to both parties.

If a mosque has links to known terrorist organizations, and if their sermons are breaking hate speech laws, can’t they be challenged on legal grounds? If not, an attempt be made for the purpose of generating publicity..

Freedom of religion is one thing, but certain Islamist speech, organizations etc. are more political than religious.

Focusing on the political aspects of radical Islam and exposing the truth about Saudi-sponsored organizations like CAIR and Hamas can help. Focusing on the political aspects of radical Islam can also circumvent people who want to whine about religious persecution.

Publicizing the fact that more than 80% of all mosques are Saudi funded (and describing extremist Wahhabism) could also help.

Sermons could be taped, religious 'outreach' attempts can be made, flyers could be published, lawyers can be called. The entire town has to know about this. CAIR creeps can shout down a few people, but if they’re outnumbered by thousands..

#64 fiery celt

With the information you have to hand about the mosque, you could use it as ammunition to stop the other mosque being built.

All you have to do is get a group together and run off a few copies of the damning articles and put them in the library, newsagents, supermarkets, colleges, etc... and get your local and national papers involved.

Also write to frontpagemag and opinion journal..

I can walk into any house of worship in the United States, and listen to a service. I would be welcomed.

Can I walk into a mosque? On the men's side?

{That might be fun to try...}

#92 BIG

The Islamofascists have no right to build in a wealthy neighbourhood without the consent of the existing residents...

Otherwise they're behaving like the dictators of their own countries!

the islamic Weltanschauung is at present one of radicalism, there has been no real moderating influence upon the islamic circles and populations since the Sufi orders were destroyed by modernizaion programs or subsumed into the bowels of the muslim brotherhood or their leaderships usurped by radicals such as the Mahdi, -even though this idea has little to do with sunna islam and more to do with the shi'i eschatalogial superman!.

so until there is a true group in the islamic world that champions the cause of a religion that doesnt dominate and is willing to debate, accept individualism and respect the law, then i would suggest to the government to look into the fundnig of mosques and islamic seminaries in the US as the likely funders are likely following a more fundamentalist agenda.

not here they shouldnt!

ACK - NYT Agenda showing again:

U.S. Agrees to Suspend Fighting in Najaf After Deal With Cleric

The developments represent a breakthrough in the unrelenting and bloody standoff as the American-led governing authority prepares to hand over sovereignty.

Umm, can someone at the Times get back to me with the definition of a bloody standoff when only one side (the bad guy) continues to get whacked in ever increasing numbers, the holy imans in the area denounce the bad guy in larger numbers every day, and the standoff would end quite easily if the bad guy simply surrenders, disbands his illegal milita, and stands trial for murdering a cleric last year.

#99 Ann:

Great point, and shouldn't houses of worship that:
-do not allow nondisruptive observers in.
-segregate the participants according to sex.

lose their tax-exempt status?

You can read the actual petition before the Village Board here: it is for 22,700 square feet -on 4 plus acres. Including basement. It would require a special use permit because it doesn't meet the zoning requirments.

Non-PDF format: [Link: 64.233.167.104...]

the standoff would end quite easily if the bad guy simply surrenders, disbands his illegal milita, and stands trial for murdering a cleric last year.

"Murdering a cleric"? What are you, some racist Islamaphobe?

He was merely articulating an ecclesiastical nuance between them.

@56 Gordon

You know, I've never advocated or wanted Charles to ban you until now. You are hateful.
I don't have to go back to Iran, I've never been there. But maybe you should take your amoral equivating and move over there. With your neutral mentality you would fit right in. Seeing some one stoned, or an amputation, or maybe a beheading would get the same reaction out of you.
You have No passion, you have no fire in your belly for ANYTHING. You are the walking dead.
Spiritually and emotionally you are dead.
You label my concerns and my love of country as demonization, so be it. Your opinion doesn't count in my camp Gordon, only G-ds does.

I'll rejoice when Charles has finally had enough of you.

We can only do so much to protect ourselves example number of deaths attributted to physican error per year app. 88000 highway deaths est 40000 murder 25000 deaths from smoking on and on terrorism deaths so far in 2004? Arent we being a wee bit paronoid here

Q,

I agree that to some, possibly large, extent Islam is here to invade. But realities being what they are - we can't fight every battle lest we lose the war. We KNOW we have to deal with the LLL - so complaining about mosques and prayers will feed the LLL call of bigotry and thus worsen our case against sharia (legal) battles and investigations into terror. Choose to fight the battles that matter.

chasmo,

How does 4 million American deaths sound to you? That's the goal of Al Qaeda, just for starters.

quark2, it's likely not going to happen. The Endemic One will just hang around spitting in the punchbowl and feeling very proud of itself. "See! I bring moral equivalency to LGF! Look at me, Mommy! LOOK AT ME!"

Gordon---

We have a huge problem in and around this area with th Islamic Fifth Column and Islamic Extremism!

There are areas of Bridgeview, Burbank etc that non-Muslims are afraid to go into ---These same "Moderate" Muslims openly celebrated after Sept. 11th!

We also have a huge problem existing local Muslim Mosques and their affiliations with organizations and charities that support Islamic Terrorism! Specificall hamas and Islamic Jihad.

We also have a problem with Illegal immigration from Arab Countries, and local Muslin facilitation and support of the same, specifically Jordan, Palestinian territories, Syria and Yemen.

We also have issues with pregnant women from the aforementioned countries, giving birth here and immediately returning to the countries of origin with thie babies (Future Islamic Jihadis with US citizenship)

FYI---
The ORLAND RESIDENTS forcibly ejected from last nights meeting only shouted in response to shouted accusations of racism from Mosque proponents and reps from CAIR. (None of these people were ejected)

All questions from the opponents were legitimate and reasonable---None of these questions were answered!
The only responce were hurled accusations of hatemongering and racism!

We can't find out who is funding these Mosque projects--- Nor are we allowed to question if any of the leadership or membership has affiliations to Terror organizations!

#82 Jetstorm

Once again, you guys demonstrate that YOU are different, YOU are special, YOU are ummah and WE are dhimmi, and our rules obviously do not, and never should, apply to you.

Precisely.

#85  fiery celt 

A federal appellate court in that case already has ruled that for the first time in the United States, those here who finance or otherwise aid terrorist groups can be sued for terrorist killings committed by other people on the other side of the world. Targeted in the lawsuit are members of the Bridgeview Islamic community, including Sabri Samirah, a current member of the mosque's board and a high-profile member who was recently exiled from the United States on government allegations he's a danger to U.S. national security. Samirah is living in Jordan.

Why doesn't someone sue them out of existence?

I don't advocate banning anyone, because people's posts show their true nature... and for all anyone knows, Gordon could be another of CAIR's sheep... so let him keep his head in the sand until one day, one of his "friends" will stick a grenade in it... if he doesn't submit to the will of Islam...

Reply to 109 so what is the solution there are millions of creative ways to kill us just for grins lets say a cell decide to salt down a talker full of crude with a couple thousand pounds of cycanide we burn it here and go what happen I dont know what to do either but we seem to be going broke with little bang for our buck

Gordon, this is my third time askin', -- Which? The Water or the Wave?

LGF Undam Est!

Youth groups dealing drugs? show me a link, Gordo.

snopes:

I would disagree about your comments regarding fighting the battles that matter. It's not that this particular battle doesn't matter, but whether it is being prioritized properly.

Unless and until the federal government decides that improving immigration controls is a priority in the WoT, these battles will be fought in increasingly larger numbers of communities.

from the above article:

Churches and synagogues don’t have to do a PR campaign to build their houses of worship,” she said. “(But) to judge by the media coverage, you would think there’s a Muslim terrorist around every corner.”

That's total BS. There are always issues over the construction of churches and synogogues. Some communities question the construction of the mega-churches, since it affects traffic, congestion, environment, etc., and many communities, including those in the NY metro area have to resort to PR to obtain the necessary support for building in some communities. There is often a reluctance to build religious facilities in some communities since it does affect property values, influences who comes into the communities, etc.

Now, is some of that racist, biased, views of the members of community? Absolutely. But CAIRs outrage and claims are outlandish since those same biases affect other groups as well.

Nannette;

None of the info I posted was allowed to be admitted in last night's meeting.

Residents of Orland and the surrounding areas are very hard working and educated!
2/3s of the people there last night knew exactly what Islam is about.
The activities of the Bridgeview Mosque is common knowledge to locals.

It did not matter!

Dissent was not allowed!!! Opponents were silenced!

The next board meeting on this issue is on June 21st---any Lgfers in the area should attend! ... Bear witness to the fascist tactics for yourselves!
...I no longer feel as if I live in a free America after last night!

I, personally, won't be in town, however, my husband will be attending in my stead!

Bravely bold Sir Gordon rode forth from Camelot.
He was not afraid to die, O brave Sir Gordon.
He was not at all afraid to be killed in nasty ways,
Brave, brave, brave, brave Sir Gordon!

He was not in the least bit scared to be mashed into a pulp,
Or to have his eyes gouged out and his elbows broken,
To have his kneecaps split and his body burned away
And his limbs all hacked and mangled, brave Sir Gordon!

His head smashed in and his heart cut out
And his liver removed and his bowels unplugged
And his nostrils raped and his bottom burned off
And his pen--

Brave Sir Gordon ran away,
Bravely ran away, away.
When danger reared its ugly head, he bravely turned his tail and fled.
Yes, brave Sir Gordon turned about
And gallantly, he chickened out. Bravely taking to his feet,
He beat a very brave retreat,
Bravest of the brave, Sir Gordon.

He is packing it in and packing it up
And sneaking away and buggering up
And chickening out and pissing off home,
Yes, bravely he is throwing in the sponge.

“Sometimes people don’t even realize the concerns they have are fueled by prejudices..so, they come up with issues like noise and traffic and parking to hide their real issues.”

I can cite at least a dozen churches- not mosques, Christian churches- in Northern Virginia alone, which have had to jump through hoops (luckily, no burning ones) to get local zoning and building code approvals for new facilities. I'm sure there are synanogues with similar stories. The opponents are usually neighbors who cite traffic and parking and the loss of open space. Thanks to Ms. Ahmed, we know they are really racist!

Hey- how'd a nice muslim girl wind up being a spokeswoman? Next thing you know she will want to vote.

Ann:

Not to nitpick--as we're likely in agreement on most things--but there are hundreds of Mormon temples throughout the world that are unavailable to non-members.

Chasmo:

Here are just some domestic American deaths to be “paranoid” about:

[1986 September]: A doctor killed in Augusta, Ga.

[1990 November]: Rabbi Meir Kahane killed in New York by El Sayyid Nosair, who was also later convicted of NYC plots and the World Trade Towers bombing in 1993.

[1993 January]: Two CIA staff killed outside agency headquarters in Langley, Va.

[1993 26 February] A massive van bomb in an underground parking garage below the World Trade Center in New York City. Six persons were killed and some one thousand injured.

[1994 March]: An Orthodox Jewish boy killed on the Brooklyn Bridge.

[1999 October] 217 passengers killed on an EgyptAir flight near New York City. The Egyptian co-pilot turned off the automatic pilot, uttered a prayer and the plane vanished from radar.

[1999 14 December ] Montreal resident Ahmed Ressam arrested at Port Angeles, WA by US Customs after they found over 100 pounds of explosives hidden in his rental car. He admitted to a plot to bomb Los Angeles International Airport on or about January 1, for the new Millennium. He had been trained in Afghanistan by Al-Qaida.

[1999 21 December] Algerian Bouabide Chamchi and a Canadian woman named Lucia Garofalo arrested at the US Border with Canada at Beecher Falls, VT when explosive sniffing dogs alerted to traces of explosives in their car. Chamachi had a false passport and is a suspected member of the Algerian Armed Islamic Group. Garofalo was later found to have links with the Millenium bomber and other collaborators with a multifaceted millennium bombing plot against the US.

[2001 11 September] : Terrorist Attacks on NYC, Wash. DC, Penn. 2,947 known dead.

[2001 6 December] Holy Lands Foundation, identified in a Philadelphia gathering as soliciting finds for “Samah”, actually meant for terrorist group HAMAS (Samah spelled backward), has its offices in Richardson, TX seized by FBI as well as operations in San Diego and Patterson, NJ

[2001 December 22] Richard Reid arrested after attempting but failing to ignite a bomb in his shoe on a 197 passenger American Airlines flight from Paris to Miami. A resident of London, Reid was trained by Al-Qaida in Afghanistan.

[2002 May 8 ] Jose Padilla arrested on arrival at Chicago. He was charged with being sent by Osama bin Laden's operations chief for Al-Qaida, Abu Zubaydah, to travel from Cairo to the US to there assemble and detonate a “dirty” radiological bomb

[2002 July 4] Los Angeles: Egyptian national Hesham Mohamed Hadayet opened fire on passengers at Israeli airline counter at Los Angeles airport, killing 2 and wounding 4. He was believed to have acted alone, out of sympathy for Palestinian interests.

[2003 10 February] Enaam M. Arnaout, executive director of Global Relief, pleaded guilty to federal racketeering charges and admitted soliciting funds from American Muslims to "support fighters overseas”. The US Treasury Department had blocked the assets and closed offices of his Global Relief in Bridgeview, Ill., and another group, the Benevolence International Foundation, on the grounds that the groups were providing financial assistance to Al-Qaida .

[2003 4 March] New York: US indicts Sheik Muhammad Ali Hasan Al-Moayad of Yemen for admittedly raising $20 million given to Al-Qaida by activities through the Al Farooq Mosque in Brooklyn. This mosque also has been the spiritual home of Egyptian cleric Sheik Omar Abdel-Rahman, convicted and sentenced to life in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing and other NYC plots and to El Sayyid Nosair who killed Rabbi Meir Kahane in 1990 and was sentenced to life with Abdel-Rahmen for the NYC bombing and terror plots.

[2003, June 22] Washington: US announces Iyman Faris, 34, a naturalized U.S. citizen from Kashmir working in New York as a truckdriver, pled guilty to plotting with Al-Qaida to blow up the Brooklyn Bridge and derail trains.

Gordon is sinking lower and lower each time he shows up here.

Gordon:
I guess you are a jabaan Water Drinker. If you haven't the courage to drink the Wave, you have no business here!

lawhawk,

Seems to be a better use of energy would be to fight for stricter immigration policies.

Opponents of the mosque...were prohibited from asking where the mosque's funding was coming from

If only I were rich enough to play neocon W. Clement Stone; I would love to buy a building in Bridgeview and donate it to ACTUP.

#125 twisterella:
What's this Wave business? I think I missed something...

Nancy,

Regarding the petition for this Mosque on the 5 acre site---

The Bridgeview Mosque started out with a congregation of less than 100 people.
Since it has embraced Wahhabi extremism, it has attendence in excess of 1200 members every Friday!
There is insuffiecnt infrastructure to cope with such an influx.
It doesn't matter, because non-Muslims no longer live in the vicinity of the mosque.

...so much for zoning.

veebee (#124):

Gordon is sinking lower and lower each time he shows up here.

Yeah, when he spouts the "tiny minority of extremists" line word for word with an apparently straight face...

Gordon:

The problem isn't your "tiny majority of extremists". The problem is the vast majority of "moderates" who have sweet fuck all to say about their views. If these moserates actually exist, then they are by definition complicit in the actions of the extremists by refusing to speak out.

#119+120 ANDTHENBLAMMO

.........and there was much rejoicing.

I'd rather have a crack house set up next door to me than the Wahhabi mosque and its crew described by fiery celt.

For that matter, I'd also prefer having Seabrook as my neighbor than Gordon and the people who think(?) like Gordon.

#131 Myself:

Should read "tiny minority of extremists"

and

"moserates"

Dumbass.

(Hangs head in shame, muttering "PIMF! PIMF Dammit!)

Apologies if it's been said already above, but how is apprehension about an aggressive, non-assimilating and obviously (duh) dangerous strata of individuals with the common thread being 'religion' and not 'race', racist? Is religionist a fricking word now?
The logic used by islamizoids is hilarious...just like all the 'doctors' that come from middle eastern 'universities'...you know, the ones with a humanistic, well rounded academic knowledge base and progressive outlook (that's rich...).
or the islamic academics that suck the west dry of knowledge and leave a husk, and then decry all the rest of Western culture.
How can you argue with an islamist? To them, there is but one entity that is served...to treat life as merely the conduit to a percieved paradise means an existence here on earth that is rather hollow, no?

Q
Actually I was thinking of name-calling. It's not that he's wrong, but that, it seems, for the lack of better arguments he starts each of his posts with an insult.

#130 Q,

You aren't used to Leftist math. Remember:

2+2 = 5

70% is a minority

20% is a majority

Minority and majority are subject to interpretation, based on Leftist mathmatics, which are based on the formula: 2+2 = 5.

It all, ultimately, depends on the meaning of the word is.

[Demonic cackling]

#134 Cam,

(Hangs head in shame, muttering "PIMF! PIMF Dammit!)

Ya left off a closing "

PIMF

Salt, meet wound :-P

[Demonic cackling]

#78 Andy: One of the common NIMBY rants people in Agoura Hills and other elitist suburbs make when a new subdivision goes in next door on the vacant oak rangeland is that "my property values are going to go down because of those ugly new houses replacement that pastoral ranch." Unless your last name is Whizin, this undoubtedly happened when you moved into your new house (or your predecessor did).

So, to protect your property values in the future, should the neighboring oak ranchland remain pristine and undeveloped?

#138 Iron Fist :

LMAO! I actually noticed that after I posted it, but thought I might get away with it, but you spoiled that, oh ye sharp-eyed bastard...

Sigh. I'm gonna go see if I can't scare up a spirited game of "Duck, Duck Goose". I Usually dominate at that one...

;-)

#140 Cam

Sigh. I'm gonna go see if I can't scare up a spirited game of "Duck, Duck Goose". I Usually dominate at that one...

Oh, so it involves nakedness, eh?
;-)

#141 zorkmidden Um shaka shaka boom:

ROTFLMAO!

Yes, I'm also not too shabby at naked twister.

BTW, I was talking to my mother the other night and told her I had related that story on a 'blog. After a long discussion of whata blog was, I walked her through how to get on and find the post.

The language she used would make a sailor blush, as she would rather not remember that particular incident. She ended up hanging up when I couldn't stop laughing...

;-)

#141 zorkmidden Um shaka shaka boom

I just caught your post on the "Abu hoot". No worries, I thought it was funny. :P

Like it or not, we are the new missionaries. I've been deliberately talking moderately loud and often in public places (not easy for an introvert) about Islam, introducing Islam and sites like this to individuals, usually total strangers, since 9/11. I've reached hundreds of people. I often point out to them facts and info they are not likely to hear in mainstream media, then show them where they can find out more. I also encourage them to read the Koran, if not the whole book (its a very boring book), then at least the first 10 surahs. Its impossible to read the Koran and not see the face of Islam. Kill means kill, no matter how many times you say it, and you can stick that in your jihadi pajamas.

cba, see #44^^^ for Twisterella's Test-- Gordon flunked, no surprise. :)

#119 and #120: I didn't think going out to lunch and getting a haircut meant I was the next Sir Robin.

After I'm done with a thread the LGF irregulars are waddling around on a bridge screaming "it's only a flesh wound, I can fight!"

RIP Ford,

I only did it 'cause I ♥ you. I still respected you in the morning.
;-)

#146 Gordon:

"Waddling"? I'll have you know that I'm pretty damned svelte.

And I don't make spurious accusations and then bugger off without backing up my allegations. Neither do most (sane) LGFers.

And the boob never DID answer Andy from Agoura's question.

I'm with steve miller, what's on TV? Mr. Holland's Opus? Yay!

reply to 123 u r right kind sir i guess playing the what if game got the best of me apologies fowarded

veebee (#136):

Yeah, it used to be that his assholery was more grating than his actual views. Now, the views have caught up.

This guy says it better than I ever could:

[Link: www.oregonlive.com...]

Even conservative Oregon Republicans say it is folly to destroy what we are trying to save - our way of life.

Iron Fist (#137):

Minority and majority are subject to interpretation, based on Leftist mathmatics

You can say that again. Starting at the source: bolsheviks, whose name implied "those who are in majority", never actually were one.

Until they slaughtered all of their opponents (and the allies who'd outlived their usefulness), that is.

#118 fiery celt

It would be a good idea to get the national media along for the next meeting and see how many people CAIR would throw out then...

I doubt they'd make a squeak...

#149 especially, but to all:

Ok, now we can have a virtual MHO experience:

MHO Online and LIVE!

I do it all for you guys. Heck, I love ya!

Gordon - since when are exterminationist groups like Hamas and intolerant Wahhabi preachers part of 'our way of life?'

These extremist organizations are primarily political. Donations to Hamas and Wahhabi influence on Mosques are not religious issues, they're political and legal issues. They should be fought that way.

#146 Gordon: Fight? You won't even take my test-- djangone flunked it too, if it makes you feel any better! :)

I'll give you a flesh wound!

Sir Gordon went a journey,
and found a lot of duckweed;
They pulled him out and dried him,
and they blipped him on the head.
They took him by the breeches
and they hurled him into ditches,
And they pushed him underwaterfalls
and this is what they said:

"You are Sir Gordon--don't laugh,
You are Sir Gordon-- don't cry,
You are Sir Gordon as bold as a lion,
Sir Gordon, the lion, Good-bye!"

Mosque leaders built two schools and started a youth center for basketball and religious classes. New clothing stores, groceries and restaurants opened in Bridgeview. A floor-covering store turned into a Middle Eastern restaurant. A music store became an Islamic hair salon.

Men who attended the mosque grew their beards and traded their T-shirts for long tunics. Women draped themselves in loose, ankle-length robes.

Deliver me. I'm seeing bearded, tunic-wearing basketball players (and that's just the women's team) that would (probably) stop a game to drop and pray? It's a contradiction of all things American.

America has become the picture of Dorian Gray, and it's infuriating.

#142 Cam

she would rather not remember that particular incident.

If only she knew how some of us on LGF refer to you now: Cam the Naked Guy.
;-P

#159 zorkmidden Um shaka shaka boom:

LOL. Believe you me, she's called me much worse...

Gordon is more than usually angry at the moment, because his conscience is bothering him. It is bothering him because he hasn't apologized to me yet, for slighting my devious majesty, and behind the scenes cunning, and for refusing to acknowledge my plot to take over the world, starting with Oregon.

I, however, bear him no grudge, and, just to prove it, I will now have my psychic dolphins telepathically serenade him with "Three 'ittle fiddies in a itty-bitty pool," which should, hopefully, soothe him, or, at the very least, give him something else to think about.

/Channeling Baldwin IV, the most ungrudging and forgiving Leper King.

it is folly to destroy what we are trying to save - our way of life.

Gordon

I repeat what I told you, with no response from you.

You need to educate yourself.

You need to read the Koran or stop cluelessly preaching about protecting a way of life that you have no way of knowing commands genocide, sexist brutality, encourages slavery, wallows in cultural ignorance and dereliction of human progress.

OUR way of life canot survive if theirs previals. And they will be fighting us to the death so they prevail over our dead society, as it is written and as they keep promising us with both overt deeds and their condemning silence in the face of those deeds.

You owe it to your nation to open the book you defend from ignorance.

After I'm done with a thread the LGF irregulars are waddling around on a bridge screaming "it's only a flesh wound, I can fight!"

Oh, I see it now. The Gordon style of debate:

-- Start off with a snarky ad hominem to get everyone's attention.

-- Refuse to answer on-topic points (SoCalJustice had a very good one).

-- Wait for everyone to get bored waiting for answers.

-- Claim victory!

BTW, he sounds like one of those socialist twats that think everyone should be forced to live in ugly, Soviet-style highrise appartment blocks. Suburban detached houses are the ultimate evil, donchya know...

...if only they wanted to open a Wal-Mart instead, the city council would have voted it down handily

-- Start off with a snarky ad hominem to get everyone's attention.

-- Refuse to answer on-topic points (SoCalJustice had a very good one).

-- Wait for everyone to get bored waiting for answers.

-- Claim victory!

Spiny Norman, you nailed it!

#165 zulubaby:

I was more offended by the "waddling" bit. I don't waddle. I usually stride purposefully, although on occasion, when in the grip of the grape, I will admit to having sashayed.

;-)

Cam, Gordon thinks because he waddles that everyone else does too.

#129 fiery celt

That's sort of what I suspected.

That they are down playing their numbers in order to get the zoning --including only having a parking lot for 123 cars when they "anticipate" getting far more and then will likely need a variance to pave the rest --screaming "racism" if they didn't get it.

Can you tell, I served on some boards --before!!! I would sure have questions.

Building nazi preaching places is a waste of resources. When full blown war breaks out they will all have to be demolished again.

“Churches and synagogues don’t have to do a PR campaign to build their houses of worship,”

This is a false assertion. I know personally of cases were both churches and synagogues have to convince their communities why it should be OK for them to build. I am also certain that most people at LGF can enumerate even more examples.

This lady has a mighty big chip on her shoulder.

I happened to live in Orland Park and looks like the fight is not over yet.
I just found a note labeled "Citizen's Alert" in my mailbox tonight..

It is basically a "call to arms" for all concerned citizens of Orland Park to participate in the two remaining meetings regarding this issue at the village hall.
The final decision on the mosque proposal can only be decided at the last hearing on June 7th.
Will see what happens.

Warmi,

When I called the Mayor's Office this AM, I was told the next board meeting regarding this issue was on June 21st. (that was before they hung up on me, when I asked about the source of the funding for this Mosque complex)

I live next door to you---Email me.
I can make a June 7th hearing but I'll be out of town on the 21st.

fiery celt

#163 Spiny Norman:

In a nutshell, my man! and I do mean nutshell!

andthenblammo!

I'll not be able to make the Lgf meeting on June 17th, (out of town)
Will you be having another get together, before or after that date?

BTW;
I lived on the corner of Clark and Belmont for near five years (before I was married) : )

Gee Jehovah's Kingdom Halls , Baptist Churches , Zen, Buddha , you name it , NONE of them categorically preach the hatred that comes out of Mosques -WORLWIDE [here too 'GORDON -HEAD -FIRMLY -PLANTED -IN - THE -SAND ]

No , it aint a zoning issue , it's a fucking security issue because every muslim-asswipe -Immam preach the same bullshit vitriole -send their money to their shit-head brothers engaging in jihad - and no shit-fer-brains -Gordon I dont mean the personal "jihad " for self-improvement .

If I were among the folks in that Chicago suburb , I'd make it a point to organize , infiltraste and scrutinize every fucking sermon that got preached there , then publicize it .
Yes beano/Gordon, there are still alien and sedition laws ON THE BOOKS -for ass-holes that incite to and preach the violent overthrow of the United States .

And if the locals can't "worship freely "in that Mosque , and are excluded , then there are laws against that also . And if the Mohammadans dont like it they can get the fuck out of the U S and go back to their primitive shit-holes from whence they came .

At any rate , it would behoove us all to make sure to video-tape every asshole that enters or leaves that mosque since they DO seem to be a magnet for terrorist scum and the assholes that support them financially . And we ARE indeed within the law to do that .

If muslims can express their displeasure with us by knocking down the WTC , slitting the throats of airline stewardesses and killing 3000 people they didn't even know , AND CHEERING ABOUT IT , then we can respond in all fairness by expressing our disdain , mistrust and suspicion of their foul , vile , hate filled bullshit religious congregations ..

just fookin' great. I'm moving to Chicago in June, and all I need is another dirty-bomb factory supported by CAIR (Cancel All but Islamists' Rights). And my girlfriend doesn't like guns. What am I getting myself into? I guess it'll have to be hand-to-hand combat.

Dont worry Schaefer ,it's not the muslim way to FACE an enemy .
Better off hiring some dobermans to WATCH YOUR BACK .

Just make sure you dont find yourself -hands and legs bound -with 5 muslim "holy men standing behind you".

Call to prayer makes mosques different from churches:

For those in the neighborhood, it is about living conditions and property values. Having a church nearby with bells and parishoners once a week is no big deal. Call to prayer five times a day will indeed cause traffic and noise problems. Zoning laws for mosques SHOULD be different than zoning laws for churches and synagogues because mosques create much more noise and traffic.

What's the problem with the question "who is funding the mosque"? This seems like a perfectly legitamate question. There are countless examples of citizens in a community in this country protesting the construction of a building based on the source of the funds. Supporters of Italian Clubs in Philly were denied zoning permits because of fears the funds were coming from organized crime. Irish pubs in Boston were denied zoning permits for fears they were IRA outposts.

It isn't the fact that I don't want a mosque in my neighborhood, but I'm VERY concerned if the finances for that mosque are coming from the Middle East. I don't want my backyard to become a vacation destination for the Deathcult™. The Trib story about the Bridgeview Mosque only makes matters worse. Then there is the dominance of the Muslim Brotherhood of the MSA at the University of Chicago. Were kidding ourselves if we think that Chicago is absent of Al Qaida worshippers.

We know that every time the spectrum is raised showing that most, sometimes all, terrorists are Muslims we are constantly reminded that there have been some christian and jewish terrorists. I must say though, when plans are announced to construct a new temple, a synagogue or a church is the community THIS alarmed as they are when a mosque wants to be built? Once the plans are announced for the Synagogue or Church is the community worried that extremists, terror supporters, are going to flock to their community?

To my friends of Orland Park, I'd say this to you. Organize, raise funds, invite Ibn Warraq, Walid Phares or Walid Shoebat to come speak to the community. Each day there are new investigations launched into activities at mosques around the United States. We see that just yesterday ANOTHER mosque was raided. When was the last time a church or synagogue was raided?

Axiom,

Call the Mayors Office and see what kind of response you get when you ask about finding for the Mosque Complex. Mayor McLaughlin's Office at 1-(708) 403-6100

They will say that you may have access to the minutes of Wednesday's Committee meeting, but filling out Freedom of Information Act Forms, however, that question was not was now allowed to asked or answered at the meeting.

When I called yesterday, The Mayor's secretary said that "WE are not allowed to ask that question", then she hung up.

Email Village of Orland Park Officials at officials@orland-park.il.us

BTW

Lgfers I would appreciate any info you have on Saudi and Wahhabi funding of Mosques in the US and North America.

My husband and I are printing up flyers, and maybe we can force officials to answer the question.

Gordon

Since you lack the balls to show your face here again, here is some light reading of just a small part of Muhammed's homocidal madness for you to read from the safety of your concealment.

As you can see, the One True Prophet disallows a Muslim to be peaceful, under penalty of Hell.

Happy lurking and self-educating.

[Link: www.prophetofdoom.net...]

#182 fiery celt

Contact the Investigative Project. Andrew McCarthy is working there now. As a former prosecutor in the biggest terror cases in the US I think he may know a thing or two about "following the money".

Axiom;

Do you have a link? I couldn't find anything on "Google".

the moral: political correctness will be the downfall of america (and the world).

i think there needs to be some sort of internal armed force (ugh, that word... A MILITIA) to be ready to protect fellow americans against these extremist muslims.
a jihad againt islam! theres a concept.
hopefully there will be some KKK groups left WHEN the muslims rise violently in the streets to kill us. (can we employ gangs to fight against the muslims when they come?)

its sad. i never wanted a gun before. now i want to buy a handgun and a rifle. ONLY because of the threat of islam.

HOW TO DEAL W/ TERRORISM IN AMERICA:
1. close borders
2. deport ALL questionable aliens/muslims/arabs (if they missplelled a word on their imigration form, deport 'em!)
3. when we catch intl. terrorists, we torture them for intel, stand them naked in Times Square for a day (no hood!), then publicly execute them (making it as dangerous/humiliating as possible to be a terrorist -- I think HUMILIATION is a key deterrent for these cockroaches)
4. mandatory death sentence for domestic terrorists
5. ban islam / raze all mosques (THEY want US out of THEIR countries, so they should get the hell out of ours! PLUS they hate westerners, so WHY ARE THEY HERE??)
6. restrict "freedom of the press" during wartime
7. deploy paramilitary forces at airports and crowded places etc. (like many european countries)

do i sound like a hitler? well the world needs to get very violently tough against these "people". they do not respond to anything else.
personally i think hitler targeted the wrong group.

salut
pierce

oh yeah, and ban muslims from important government positions.

YES, that is discrimination.

BUT...... right now, discriminating against anyone EXCEPT white people is illegal.
so there it is. if its good for the whites its good for the mulims.

done

pierce

#43 fiery celt (post regarding Bridgeview ..)

I have a friend living in that town (around Harlem/71sth) and , while I have seen various "Islam oriented things" stores and such all over that place, I have never seen that mosque or in fact any Muslims around that place anyway.
I have to admit I generally just take Southwest highway all the way to Harlem and then it is a short drive to 71st - so in fact I never really had a chance to drive around that town.
Is it really that bad these days over there ?

From what I understand Bridgeview used to be a decent town ( a typical Polish-Americans dominated Midwestern town etc ..)

#188 Warmi:
Is it really that bad these days over there ?
Greetings. I am the blissful husband of fierycelt. To write an inteligent response to your question, I would have to know your definition of "bad."
The best I can do is describe the situation and tell you of experiences.
Chicago Ridge Mall is one of the major malls of that area. It used to be a favorite teenage girl hangout. My daughters, (at the time were 12,14,16) from my first marriage used to go there.
Now, they and their friends are afraid to go there. They stopped going because they were being harrassed and hassled by arab men and boys. According to my girls, those boys didn't take to hearing "NO!" to nicely. I was told that the boys would grab a girls arm and physically drag her away from her friends. It didn't matter if you were there with two or three friends or ten, because the boys/men always caroused the mall in packs. In most other malls, if a group of boys or men were being too obnoxious or aggressive with a group of girls, to the point of getting the girls to yell "Get away" or "Leave me alone," either a security guard or a couple of concerned men and/or women would intervene.
Not at the Ridge. The Security Guards are either moslems too, or not around. Many of the other shoppers are moslem as well, and not exactly willing to go out out their way, or get involved.
A drive through the area will not present the overwhelming number of residents of Arabic descent. You would have to walk down the streets, and go into the stores. I have done both. Prior to 9/11 and afterwards.
Besides witnessing the growing number of women dressed in Hijab in the stores, on their sidestreets, and of all places, at the Bridgeview Municipal Pool, I couldn't help but notice the large numbers of arabic men and boys, just hanging out in driveways. and in parking lots, or in the backs of those stores. But what I did not see, in the stores, on the streets, nor even at the pool, was any young arabic girls. Not one.
However, I have experienced the Arab disdain and contempt towards me; in subtle, passive-agressive ways, once by an antognistic clerk snapping my ATM card from my hand, and another time by being surrounded by a group of fifteen "tuffs" who deliberately blocked my path to the exit. Even at 6'2" 220lbs, and more than enough street fighting experience, I must admit, the situation was a bit unnerving.
At 63rd and Kedzie,into Bridgeview, Burbank,Oak Lawn, Hickory Hills, Palos Heights, Palos Hills, East Frankfurt/ near Frankfort Square, and of course, Orland Park the numbers of nonintegrating arabic speaking moslems are growing to disproportionate levels in comparison to the all the other nationalities combined.
Now, I ask you... does that define bad?
I've been an American-Irishman all my life, but now suddenly I think I know what it felt like to be an uncompromising, non-dhimmi native Parisian of twenty years ago. (If ever one existed).
I'll end this (my first lgf) post with two of my favorite quotes:
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Better be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident security." Edmund Burke
I hope some of this post has answered your question.

I am a 18 year old Muslim boy living in the Orland park area. I read all of these comments and think to myself why am I any differnt then christians...I drink the same water..I eat the same food...Just because I believe in Islam does not necessarily mean that I am a murderer. Sure you guys might think of September 11th and Terrorism everytime you hear the word "Muslim" but that is not what we are all about. It hurts me to think that i have been living on 104th Avenue so long and now i am hated by so many people just because of my religon. What makes Christianity any differnt from Islam.. We believe in the same god, same profits, The only difference is we are more strict. There is no reason why a Christian kid can go to any one of the hundreds of churches in the suburbs, and i have to be routed to that little one on 63rd and Harlem. If Christians can build churches, then by god we should be able to build Mosques. Anybody with actual concerns should take it up in person and not sit here and discriminate against muslims over the internet. That does nothing but bring anger and even more hate. Just remember...We pay our taxes too...We are Americans just like the rest of you and our rights are just as equal as yours...Freedom of religon is why we're here and why we're staying here. We wont lose this fight for the mosque.

Os

Os----'allah' is not my god!----allah is of Satan

We are not 'brothers under Abraham'

Look here, here, here, here, here, and here...

You are not my brother---You and Yours have had Three years to speak out against the atrocities commited in the name of you death cult religion and your 'bloody pedophile prophet".....silence

I noticed that you did not mention attendance at the "Bridgeview Mosque"----Isn't that "peaceful" place of Islamic worship closer to your house????

Islam is Death
---Islam is "Submission"
---Islam is Hatred
---Islam is Envy---Islam is Rage
---Islam is Intolerance
---Islam is Racist
---Islam is Bigotry
---Islam is Ignorance
---Islam is Repression
---Islam is Destruction
---Islam is Merciless
---Islam is Self-loathing
---Islam is Stagnation
---Islam is Fear
---Islam is "Submission"
---Islam is Death

ISLAM IS OF SATAN

Tabari VIII:130 “The Messenger said during his final illness, ‘Two religions cannot coexist in the Arabian Peninsula.’ Umar investigated the matter, then sent to the Jews, saying: ‘Allah has given permission for you to be expelled; for I have received word that the Prophet said that two religions cannot coexist in Arabia.”

Ishaq:364 “Muslims, take not Jews and Christians as friends. Whoever protects them becomes one of them, they become diseased, and will earn a similar fate.”

Fight and slay the pagans [Christians] wherever ye find them and seize them, confine them, and lie in wait for them in every place of ambush" (Surah 9:5)

Enmity and hatred will reign between us until ye believe in Allah alone." (Qur'an 60:4)

Fight the unbelievers in your surroundings, and let them find harshness in you." (Qur'an 9:123)

"For he who believes in the Trinity, "the Fire will be his abode … a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemer." Qur'an (5:72-73)

Sura 8:67 “It is not fitting for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he has made a great slaughter in the land.”

“I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, none has the right to be worshipped but Allah” (Al Bukhari vol. 4:196)

You (the Jews) should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle and I wish to expel you from this land (Arabia) (Hadith, 4363)
“No Muslim should be killed for killing a Kafir (infidel).”(Hadith vol. 9:50)

"I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslims." (Hadith Sahih 4366)

Fiery Celt, obviously you are not an intelligent human being. Just by looking at how you mentioned a bunch of stuff twice and also from your lack of true studies of our religion. You claim that Allah is not your god, when in fact he is. If you believe in the Christian god then you believe in the Muslim God. The word Allah is not the name of our god, The Word Allah is just "God" translated into Arabic...You show all these links about other countries and persecutions and what not but that has nothing to do with the U.S. or the citizens living in it. Connecting Arab American Muslims to the terrorist attacks and to things going on in the Middle East is like connecting all Germans that are living in the U.S. to Hitler’s murder of Jews. Just because some extremists believe in one thing does not mean that everybody else believes in the same. Nothing you stated above has anything to do with the mosque trying to be built and has nothing to do with our religion being dangerous. If you were to just once in your life come to an Islamic prayer and listen to a translated version of everything you would be amazed of what you hear. I am an Arabic speaker but not very fluent at it. I go to prayer and ask my dad to translate some of the stuff that is said and it’s unbelievable. It’s all about peace and taking care of one another. It’s about doing the right things and leaving the wrong. It’s all about acknowledging one another as brothers and knowing that we are all equal. I do not appreciate all of you people in these forums talking bad about a religion without studying it. All you see is the bad and you skip over the good. This is a dare to one of you to just go into a mosque and have everything translated so that you can see we are not all about death and torture but in fact we are about peace and harmony.

Os (#192),

I see you insulted fiery celt, repeated some tired clichés and told a few lies, but what I didn't see you do was denounce any muslim for terrorist acts against kufrs. Why not?

If islam is all about peace and understanding like you say why are there so many acts of violence and murder committed in the name of allah? And why is there never and denunciation of those people by imams?

We here know quite a bit about the rhetoric of Islam----

Some of Us have not been deceived by the "Religion of Peace™" propaganda Lie---

From the “holy mosque” in Mecca, Saudi Arabia:
....Concluding, the imam prays to God: "O God, strengthen Islam and Muslims, protect Islam, and destroy the enemies of Islam, the tyrants, and the corrupt. O God, close the ranks of Muslims and give wisdom to their leaders." He goes on: "O God, help mujahidin elevate Islam everywhere. O God, support them in Palestine. O God, destroy the tyrant Zionist Jews, for they are within your power."

From the “holy mosque” in Medina:
Concluding, the imam prays to God: "O God, strengthen Islam and Muslims, humiliate infidelity and infidels, and destroy the enemies of Islam. O God, give safety to this country and the other Islamic countries."

From the Grand Mosque in Sanaa, Yemen:
Concluding, the imam prays to God: "O God, support those supporting Islam and disappoint those disappointing Muslims. O God, help our mujahidin brothers everywhere score victory over their enemies. O God, encourage them. O God, destroy the sons of Zion. O God, destroy the Zionist and American enemies of Islam, shake the ground under them, instill panic into their hearts, and freeze the blood in their veins. O God, close the ranks of Muslim peoples and rulers."

From Umar Bin-al-Khattab Mosque in Doha, Qatar:
...Concluding, the imam asks God to destroy those seeking to harm Islam and Muslims and to support mujahidin everywhere. He goes on: "O God, destroy the Jews and their supporters. O God, protect us from their evils.

The so called "spiritual leaders" of the Islamic world spewed an astonishing amount of hatred and bigotry in their weekly khutba (sermons) in the holiest mosques of Islam, as they do week after week, year after year—and it was all broadcast live on the official television stations of the Arab world, reaching an audience of many millions.

From the Grand Mosque in Sanaa, Yemen:

The imam concludes with a prayer to God to deal with the "tyrannical enemies." He prays: "O Lord, Support whoever supports religion and humble whoever humbles Muslims. O Lord, deal with your enemies, the enemies of religion, including infidels, atheists, Americans, British, and others. Shake the land under their feet, kill them one by one and leave no one alive."

At the martyr King Abdallah I mosque in Amman

The imam concludes with a general prayer for pardon, mercy, and salvation for Muslims. He also prays to God to unite Muslims and support the "mujahidin" everywhere.

Tariq Bin-Ziyad mosque in Syria, the Mufti of Damascus also asked Allah to help the holy warriors in “Palestine and everywhere:”

The imam concludes with a prayer to God to support Islam and Muslims, humble infidelity and infidels, destroy the enemies of religion, and make this and other Muslim countries safe and secure. He prays: "O Lord, make us safe in our countries, guide our imams and rulers, and support our imam and ruler." He also prays: "O Lord, support our brother mujahidin for your sake everywhere. O Lord, support them in Palestine. O Lord, deal with the aggressor Jews and sinful Zionists. O Lord, deal with them for they are within Your power. O Lord, deal with the enemies of religion and show us the miracles of Your power on them

Sure---Only "peaceful" Preaching from the Mosques of Islam.....WE ARE LISTENING

From the holiest mosques in Islam.
Broadcast on government-controlled Saudi Arabia TV1 in Arabic, from the “holy” mosque in Mecca, the spiritual center of the religion of peace:

In conclusion, the imam prays to God: "O God, strengthen Islam and Muslims, protect Islam, destroy Islam's enemies and all tyrants and corrupters, close Muslims' ranks, and give wisdom to their leaders." He goes on: "O God, help the mujahidin in Palestine promote justice. O God, destroy the tyrant Jews and protect us from their evil."

Holy Mosque in Mecca, the very center of Islam.

"O God, help weak Muslims in Palestine and Iraq score victory. O God, destroy the Jews and their supporters. O God, protect Muslims in Iraq and strengthen their faith in God."

By “supporters of the Jews,” of course, he means the United States.

Islam, the Muslim supremacist khutba is even more bloodthirsty and racist. At the Grand Mosque in Sanaa, Yemen,

The imam also urges Muslims to help Palestinians "protect themselves and their sanctities, which the brothers of monkeys and the sons of pigs are desecrating."
....Concluding, the imam prays to God: "O God, help our weak brothers in Palestine and Iraq overcome their ordeal and score victory over their enemies. O God, destroy Islam's enemies. O God, destroy Zionists and Americans, shake the ground under them, instill fear into their hearts, and freeze blood in their veins."

State Department officials visited two mosques in the Western Province, two in the Central Province, and one in the oil-rich Eastern Province. According to one State Department official familiar with the contents of the cable, the mosques all have sizeable congregations and were selected because they constitute a representative cross-section of "approved" Saudi mosques. (Most mosques that do not adhere to the rigid standards of Wahhabism, a fundamentalist and Saudi-based strand of Islam, do not operate openly.)

Two of the five mosque services called for the "destruction" of Americans, and four of the five called for the "death" or "destruction" of "the Jews." On the latter count, the fifth sermon didn't not call for the death of "the Jews," but rather had a more generic prayer for God "to destroy . . . the enemies of Islam." Judging by the other four sermons, "the Jews" would be considered a subset of "the enemies of Islam."
At the Al-Hessy Mosque in Riyadh, for example, the imam talked of the pursuit of a "happy and peaceful life" and "asked God to maintain the dignity of Islam and Muslims." But he was not done. He then "asked for the destruction of the Jews and Americans," though as if to try and soften the summation somewhat, the cable calls this "something he does not call for on a regular basis." In any case, the imam's audience perked up: "The relatively inattentive congregation showed more interest when the Shaykh asked for the destruction of the Jews and Americans."

From Charles---
Al-Hayat published an interview with Algerian Islamozoid Nabil Sahrawi, aka; Abu Ibrahim Mustafa, a leader of the Salafi Group for Da’wa and Fighting, in which he lays out the theological doctrine of jihad:
The Islamic State Will Arise Only Through Blood and Body Parts.

Pakastani Madrassa Rhetoric

WND goes inside 'mainstream' Muslim conference
Extremist leaders who support terror stir up crowd at Florida event

WND goes inside 'mainstream' Muslim conference; Extremist leaders who support terror stir up crowd at Florida event

Bridgeview---the peaceful youth of islam

This is self-described “jihadi” Ibn Musa, lovingly relating how he’d slaughter an infidel:

EA..oKay..and hey....when u DO i.then DO it soo badly that he spits out blood and and starts crying really badly...stab him till da muslim blood from his abdomen comes out ...and ....ermmmm....lets make this more freaky....hey CUT his head off .... i mean like not FAST....i mean cut it in a SLOW MOTION....and let him shout ...cry....and do anything he wants lol......then leave him alone...on the floor....let the blood come out from his THROAT...+ ABDOMEN....and yea yea yea...lol.... and wait till he dies okay....when he dies....then give him a KICK and tell him that it was from IBN MUSA lol...hey we dont want kumo sis or anyone to faint while lukin at theyr own thread rite?...so ST OP it here man..lets do this in DA BRO AREA .....
“Da bro area” seems to be a private thread. I don’t even want to think about what’s in it.

There’s a disclaimer at the top of each page:

The staff of ClearGuidance.com does not necessarily agree with the posts of every user, nor do we advocate or endorse all of the posts on this message board.
But on their “Announcements” page, the first announcement from the board’s Admin contains this inspiring message:

We need youth to fight in the way of ALLAH in Kashmir, India, Chechniyah, Afghanistan, Philistine, and wherever we are being oppressed. Leave your plans of al wahn and adopt a new plan which will help the ummah, do not be selfish, this life is cheap, whereas the life of islam, will grant you your desires in this life and the next life.
In one of the threads, these demon children discuss their fear that the FBI is monitoring them. I sincerely hope they’re right.

In Islam jihad means nothing but killing, says Jaish chief

Chief of banned terrorist outfit Jaish-e-Mohammed Maulana Masood Azhar has said that in Islam the only meaning of jihad was killing, even as another terrorist group supporter asked Pakistan to declare that suicide bombing against west was jihad.
-"In Islam the only meaning of jihad was killing, and those who projected the concepts of jihad Akbar and jihad Asghar were against Islam," Azhar was quoted by an Urdu daily Nawa-e-Waqt as saying.
...
Jihad Akbar is supposed to be non-violent while jihad Asghar is supposed to be the war by the sword.
-He said it was a conspiracy against Islam to say that jihad was not killing.
-Another supporter of terrorist groups in Pakistan, justice (retired) Javid Iqbal said at a seminar in Lahore that Pakistan and the Islamic world should declare that suicide bombing against the west was actually jihad.
-It was the United States that was doing terrorism and not the suicide bombers of various organisations, he was quoted by daily Jung as saying.

Preachers of Hate: Islam and the War on America;---Hate to Win?

from Saudi Arabia to Egypt, state-appointed clerics are preaching to the faithful that it is their "duty" to murder Jews, because Jews are "rejected" by God, who turned them into "monkeys and pigs."

Os---
I suppose that you would proclaim the lie that "Jihad" is an 'Inner Spiritual Battle'

BTW: OS---You might want to reconsider your handle--The "os" is the opening to a woman's cervix---I'm sure you wouldn't want to be named after some considered "Haram" in Islam.

More Rhetoric from the "Religion of Peace for your perusal"

Thanx to Charles and MEMRI---

But I guess us "ignorant" infidels are incapable of understanding the depth od the Hatred because we don't speak the language of the "Prophet" piss be upon him"

04/21/04 09:19 PM: Peaceful Religion Watch

The ranting was slightly more apocalyptic and xenophobically paranoid than usual last Friday in the spiritual centers of Islam, all broadcast live over Arab television ...

03/31/04 07:46 PM: Peaceful Religion Watch

Here’s the latest death cult insanity, preached last Friday at the Zayid Bin-Sultan Al Nuhayyan mosque in Gaza: PA sermon ‘O God, show us a ...

03/26/04 11:09 AM: Peaceful Religion Watch

Photos from around the world, where in every major center of Islam the spiritual leaders of the Religion of Peace™ whipped up the faithful into ...

03/15/04 06:15 PM: Peaceful Religion Watch

The terror attacks in Spain unleashed a hellish torrent of hatred in the mosques of the Middle East last Friday, emboldening the imams and sheikhs ...

02/06/04 09:39 AM: Whitewashing the Hajj

At OpinionJournal, professor of Islamic Studies Eric Ormsby lectures us uncultured cow-tippers about the pilgrimage to Mecca (the hajj); the “stoning of Satan” ritual is ...

But "Os", (my dear little cervical opening)---There is soooooo much more Peaceful Rhetoric to learn about the teachings of the Religion of Peace™

01/31/04 04:41 PM: No Flying Pigs Here, Move Along
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
The Associated Press is doing backflips of approval and delight over the sermon preached today at Mount Arafat in Saudi Arabia: Top Saudi Cleric Assails ...

01/30/04 01:42 PM: Peaceful Religion Watch
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
An audience of 500,000 people who made the hajj pilgrimage to Mecca listened today as Sheik Saleh al-Taleb issued the customary demands for Allah to ...

12/27/03 04:08 PM: Peaceful Religion Watch
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
The people who need to read and understand every word of the following lengthy MEMRI report are those who argue that “the occupation” is the ...

10/14/03 09:13 PM: Peaceful Religion Watch
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
Here’s a raging bloodthirsty “sermon” from the Zayid Bin-Sultan Al Nuhayyan mosque in Gaza, by a Muslim holy man named Shaykh Ibrahim Mudayris, praying to ...

09/28/03 03:51 PM: Peaceful Religion Watch
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
Once again, we listen to what the spiritual leaders of Islam are saying to the flock. Remember, this is a tiny minority of fanatics preaching ...

08/13/03 09:43 AM: Peaceful Religion Watch
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
While the Saudis put on a big show of cracking down on their extremists, and flood Western airwaves with transparently false propaganda, back home in ...
169 comments. Last comment: 8/17/2003 at 4:09 PM

07/21/03 05:31 PM: Ask The Imam!
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
South African Muslims who have burning questions about their faith can surf over to a discussion forum called Ask the Imam, and get the 411 ...

07/15/03 02:46 PM: Peaceful Religion Watch
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
According to oleaginous Saudi representative to the US, Adel al-Jubeir, the Saudis have fired 1,000 of their more radical Imams and Sheikhs (the ones who ...

06/05/03 05:53 PM: Peaceful Religion Watch
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
Last Friday, May 30, the spiritual leaders of the Islamic world spewed an astonishing amount of hatred and bigotry in their weekly khutba (sermons) in ...

05/29/03 11:30 AM: Peaceful Religion Watch
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
The Saudis are really starting to get it, and they’re going to renounce their support for terrorists and hatred of infidels! That’s what they’d like ...

05/12/03 03:22 PM: Peaceful Religion Watch
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
Hey, what happened to that “moderation” the Saudi sheikhs were supposed to be practicing? Weren’t they supposed to be toning down the calls for destruction ...

04/22/03 06:37 PM: Peaceful Religion Watch
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
The sheikhs, imams, and mullahs of the Arab world are having a hard time figuring out why Allah didn’t shake the ground under our feet, ...

02/18/03 06:49 PM: Peaceful Religion Watch
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
Once again we take a whirlwind tour of the delusional hate speech (khutba) that continues to spew from the wacked-out imams and shrieking sheikhs of ...

02/10/03 01:46 PM: Peaceful Religion Watch

Raging par[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...] blind hatred, magical thinking, whining victimhood, and crazed ranting. Am I describing a meeting of the Screen Actors Guild? No, it’s this week’s ...

01/26/03 05:32 PM: Peaceful Religion Watch
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
I detect a tinge of fear and uncertainty in the Friday khutba this week, although there was still plenty of bloodthirsty ranting and obsessive hatred ...

12/30/02 06:46 PM: Peaceful Religion Watch
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
It’s been a couple of weeks since the last Peaceful Religion Watch, our roundup of the weekly hate speech and incitements to murder disguised as ...

12/09/02 03:33 PM: Peaceful Religion Watch
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
Last Friday the sheikhs and imams of the Arab world bade farewell to the month of Ramadan, calling on the faithful to think of the ...

12/02/02 09:16 AM: Peaceful Religion Watch
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
On the last Friday of the holy month of Ramadan, at a mosque in Delhi, India, an Islamic leader called on all Muslim countries to ...

11/22/02 07:39 AM: Religion of Slaughter
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
Muslim “worshippers” came out of Friday prayers in Nigeria and went on another slaughter spree. More than 100 people are now known to be dead...

11/17/02 08:08 AM: Peaceful Religion Watch
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
This week’s Peaceful Religion Watch (our summary of the insane hate speech that infests the Friday sermons of the Arab world) features two countries with ...

11/05/02 10:07 AM: Racism as the Will of Allah
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
Yesterday the Palestinian Media Watch mailing list contained an extensive translation of the Friday sermon (khutba) from Shaykh Ijlin mosque in Gaza, one of the ...

There is much, much. more--- Thanx to Charles and MEMRI

YOUR 'god" WILL NEVER BE THE G-D I WORSHIP----or give myself in "submission"

fiery celt,

You go!

I almost feel sorry for Os. Buried under a mountain of facts.

I like all of the facts, but like i said fiery...NONE OF THAT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE MUSLIMS HERE, WHAT THEY ARE DOING THERE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH US HERE, YOU DONT SEE ARAB AMERICANS DOING WHAT THEY ARE DOING OVER THERE. All of your facts mean just as much as garbage to me b/c i have already seen that stuff. Show me something about Arab Born americans doing some of those things.
BTW Fiery..It just so happens my name is OSAMA

Osama says:
"YOU DONT SEE ARAB AMERICANS DOING WHAT THEY ARE DOING OVER THERE....."
I highly doubt you are as ignorant as you appear to be.
What I wonder is whether or not your search for "understanding" is legitimate. After being buried with facts about your religion of peace, you claim that American muslims are different from the muslims located beyond the US borders. I think you are on a fishing expedition. I think you would like to know what we know about what is being said and preached in American Mosques.
If I were to post information like that, then you would have classified information of which Mosques are being watched, and who was being monitored.
Why don't you first tell me; who is funding the Orland Park Mosque?

Os---My dear young uterine orifice,

Did you even bother to check the aforementioned links?

Some of this delightful rhetoric emanating from Islam and "peaceful" Muslims, occurs within the United States----including Bridgeview.

You know, that mosque that you refuse to mention as being the closest to your house---

But one only needs to read the Q'uran to understand where all this hatred , rage, bigotry and death originates.

Yet, I am the unintelligent infidel, ignorant in the holy language of the pedophile prophet.
Therefore I could not possibly understand the subtleties and the nuanced poetic hate-filled prose contained in the un-Holy book's revered pages.

Mohammed "piss be upon him" was a demon possessed, epileptic, murdering assassin, a pagan, a thief, a caravan raider, a horse and camel thief, a war monger, a pillager, a slaver, a genocidal warlord, a sadist, a manipulating liar, a hypocrite, a pedophile, a rapist, an adulterer, and sex addict.

This is the man---who would be your savior.
This is the man who wrote your un-holy q'uran.

Your allah is not my G-D.

A so-called moderate Muslim is an apostate to Islam.

That is why there has been nothing but silence from the "Moderate Muslim Masses™", in the wake of 9/11 and beyond.

Osama bin Laden (your namesake) is the good Muslim, according to Islam and it's textbook for terror, the Q'uran.

Os (#200),

I see that you've still not denounced any of the hatred, murder and violence being perpetrated in the name of allah.

Why is that?

You think we're stupid don't you?

See, None of you guys seem to understand the point im trying to get at. Just because its happening back home and "in the name of allah" does not mean thats how our religon works. I understand that there are extremest and those are the ones who are doing all of this in the name of allah and Islam. Thats not how it all works, we dont murder in the name of allah. Everything is just missunderstood. You seem to bring up all of these murders in all of these countries. What about the murders in your own country, why dont you focus on how many people are being murdered in down town chicago or anywhere else in the U.S. Before worrying about who is being killed in a whole differnt country, worry about the people who are being killed everyday by American born Christians. I want you to compare the murders of an American born muslim to an American born christian and tell me what you think about that....Then that will get you thinking...Which is more dangerous??? a Mosque or a churche???

....Then that will get you thinking...Which is more dangerous??? a Mosque or a churche???

Statistically?

A Mosque---

90%-95% OF ALL THE CONFLICTS ON THIS PLANET TODAY INVOLVE MUSLIMS FIGHTING NON-MUSLIMS OR EACH OTHER!

First the Saturday People

Who's financing the Orland Mosque????
Are members Wahhabist/ Salafist???

How come you refuse to acknowledge any affiliations with the Bridgeview Mosque???

See, None of you guys seem to understand the point im trying to get at. Just because its happening back home and "in the name of allah" does not mean thats how our religon works.

That aforemented Freudian Slip conveys you true loyalties and intentions---

"Happening back home???"

Where the collective outrage, from the "Majority of Moderate Muslim Masses™" denouncing the terror and atrocities commited in the name of their Religion?

...silence

Muslims are encouraged to be wholly occupied (Sura 2:273) with fighting for Allah's cause.

- Allah will give "a far richer recompense to those who fight for him" (Sura 4:96).

- Regarding infidels (unbelievers), they are the Muslim's "inveterate enemies" (Sura 4:101). Muslims are to "arrest them, besiege them and lie in ambush everywhere" (Sura 9:5) for them. They are to "seize them and put them to death wherever you find them, kill them wherever you find them, seek out the enemies of Islam relentlessly" (Sura 4:90). "Fight them until Islam reigns supreme" (Sura 2:193). "Cut off their heads, and cut off the tips of their fingers" (Sura 8:12).

- If a Muslim does not go to war, Allah will kill him (Sura 9:39). He is to be told, "the heat of war is fierce, but more fierce is the heat of Hell-fire" (Sura 9:81).

- A Muslim must "fight for the cause of Allah with the devotion due to him" (Sura 22:78)

- Muslims must make war on the infidels (unbelievers) who live around them (Sura 9:123).

- Muslims are to be "ruthless to unbelievers" (Sura 48:29).

- A Muslim should "enjoy the good things" he has gained by fighting (Sura 8:69).

- A Muslim can kill any person he wishes if it be a "just cause" (Sura 6:152).

- Allah loves those who "fight for his cause" (Sura 61:3).
Anyone who fights against Allah or renounces Islam in favor of another religion shall be "put to death or crucified or have their hands and feet cut off alternative sides" (Sura 5:34).

- Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him. Sahih Al-Bukhari (9:57)

- Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Koran 9:5)

- Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. (Koran 69:30-37)

- I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them. (Koran 8:12)

- They should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides. (Koran 5:33)

- Know that paradise is under the shades of swords. Sahih al-Bukhari Vol 4 p55

"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends"
[Sura 5:50]
"Allah ... forbids you to make friends with those who have fought against you ... or abetted others to do so"
[Sura 60:9]
"Fight those that believe not in Allah - such men as practice not the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the Book- until they pay tribute out of hand AND HAVE BEEN HUMBLED"
[Koran 9:29]

...from your unholy, blighted book, and your god---Not Mine.