ACLU = Against Christians Like yoU (also heard as "Citizens").

This is insane but is there anything we can do about it?

I found it!

now they're going to go after our money ...

In g-d we trust...all others must pay cash.

But no complaint about endorsing Pomona...

Incredible huh? And the cost for doing so is in the millions. Every stamp, seal, envelop......

ACLU = A$$holes Inc.

The other symbols...

a triangle and calipers to represent industry

C'mon, those are a Square and a Compass, and that's the Symbol of Masonry.

Maybe the ACLU should declare a crusade against the Masonry too. That would be fun to watch...

Stupids.

To be removed at a later date:

Pomona
-Can't have the state promoting ancient pagan gods, now can we? Next thing you know, people will be sacrificing bulls and having orgies.

Triangle and Calipers [of Industry]
-Don't want to offend the unemployed

Spanish galleon
-MeCHA sues over the use of this symbol as the conquest of the indigenous tribes.

The Tuna and a Cow
-Moby files suit on behalf of all the vegans in California.

Hollywood Bowl
-Don't get me started on Hollywood...

I'm going to Law School next year.

My goal is to become the ACLU's worst F***ING NIGHTMARE.

Wish me luck.

Yea, well what about that fish? That's a Christain symbol too! And you can't fool me about the triangle and calipers being symbols of industry -- those are symbols of Freemasonry, that's gotta go. The Spanish Galleon smacks of colonialism and genocide brought to these shores as viruses and bacteria to wipe out indigenous persons. The cow has to offend PETA and vegans everywhere. And, naturally, oil derricks are strictly verbotten! I'd strike the Roman Goddes to be safe, or perhaps it's only Christainity that is subject to the seperation of church and state.

When all is said and done, Los Angeles County's new symbol should be:

O

... which can be easily interpreted as being symbolic of the wisdom or common sense of all involved -- i.e., zero

The ACLU is not about civil liberties. Correct me if I'm wrong, but has the ACLU ever taken a single case in defense of:

- Second Amendment rights

- The Free Speech rights of anti-abortion protestors.

I don't think so. The ACLU is not about civil liberties, it's about shocking the normals.

Also All Criminals Love Us (a pretty old one).

What's next, Supervisor Knabe? Changing the name of the city. After all, Los Angeles means "The Angels", which is a Christian thing.

PIMF!

to the left, the ACLU, etc. every religion is acceptable except for christianity.

can anyone remember the last time the ACLU actually accomplished anything worthwhile?

I found it easily but then I'm an evil atheist who hates religion.

Oh wait, I actually think the cross should stay. Why? Because the cross in the seal doesn't establish Christianity as anything.

If LA were to design a new city seal, it'd probably be nice of them not to include a cross, but the ACLU and various atheist groups are all fond of stripping references to Christianity or (non muslim) theistic religion ("under God" isn't a reference to Christianity) from things that have been a part of our lives for decades.

Despite the insistance of ACLU defenders, there's clearly a double standard. The boy scouts were not targeted in San Diego because they had access to "things" other groups were not. They were targeted because they appear to be a secular/religious organization who seek to deny membership to atheists and homosexuals. Fine. I don't have problems with eliminating subsidies of the boy scouts (or any other group) but the ACLU was completely silent about that Islamic camp which was no different than the situation here in San Diego and the boy scouts.

FCOL! I hope nobody points out the meaning of Los Angeles to them...

A major problem with modern civilization is that we've removed so many of the penalties for stupidity that idiots who come up with things like this live long enough to reproduce.

Heaven Forbid, if anything should happen worse than 9/11 on our shores, the #2 Target may very well be the ACLU....

It pisses me off that I live in Florida so my opinion on the whole thing would be dismissed by any LA official.

Can I complain locally, would it do any good, and who would I talk to? The ACLU should be thought of as a cult and banned from using oxygen.

What about the fish, bottom left.

Gotta go - can't have no symbols representative of no living things in Islamerica.

And, yeah, I'd pay to see the ACLU take on the Friends of Hiram and the Sons of the Widow.

Bring it on.

After all, Los Angeles means "The Angels", which is a Christian thing.

I guess a lot of California villages are overdue for name changes:

San Francisco

Santa Barbara

San Diego

Sacramento

The cross may be gone but the Greek Goddess Pomona is still there. Thank God the the ACLU lawyers have never read the classics or she would be doomed as well. Looks like The ACLU may be going after Western Civilization one religion at a time with the exception of the ROP. The ACLU is on a cultural suicide trip and it looks like we have put them in charge of the transportation system. Death to the ACLU!

It's just like the Democrats and the mere threat of a filibuster against W's judicial appointees. "Oh, pleeeeeeease don't sue us, ACLU!" Of course, knowing the Federal judges in Cali, the city would probably lose anyway.

Here's one for the "fair and balanced" ACLU to investigate:

San Fran judge approves Muslim prayer in schools

#9 uncle dave

congratulations! where will you be going?

When will the aclu sue Hamtramck, Mich for allowing the ROP to scream Allah from a loudspeaker 5 times a day?

Bastards... go to France aclu weenies.

LINK

#9 uncle dave

Best of luck.

#10 charles austin,

Give the ACLU time. They'll replace the Seal of LA with a hammer and sickle on Red.

Nothing bad ever happened under the Hammer and Sickle.

[/ L ³ moonbat]

#21 Gymnast

Death to the ACLU!

That'll happen, but not until the RoP takes over.

Gotta lose the cow too; it is an endorsement of Hinduism.

Hell, let's just put a hijab on the Roman goddess now and get it over with.

California is a melting pot of many religions. To place the Chrisitian symbol on its coat of arms places one religion ahead of all the others. Just because the history of California includes Christian missionaries, does not mean that the symbol of their religion should be officially recognized any more than the symbol of slavery should be representd on the flags and coat of arms of Southern states.

If there were a crescent instead of the cross, they'd have never said a thing.

Apparently, "religion" means a cross or Star of David.

#25

When will the aclu sue Hamtramck, Mich for allowing the ROP to scream Allah from a loudspeaker 5 times a day?

Uh, like, never?

That would hasten the death of the ACLU.

And we will abolish CROSSroads. Only CRESCENTroads will be allowed, to teach the due respect for "other cultures".

and LA County has now caved in to their demands:

Caved? I wouldn't be surprised if someone on the Board of Supervisors "tipped them off."

Am I the only one that thinks the LA County seal looks like it was drawn by a 10-year-old? "Artistically clumsy" would be generous... oh, wait -- it was "designed by committee" wasn't it?

#31

If there were a crescent instead of the cross, they'd have never said a thing.

Damn straight. See #32.

Separation of church and state is the law. What's so wrong about enforcing the law?

#9 uncle dave

If I ever win the lottery I will contribute to your campaigne!

I left CA almost 5 years ago, aside from missing my family and the ocean I am glad I did.

Canuckistan, are you as interested in Canadian laws as you are in American?

Two stars - or Wiccan pentacles? Gotta go!

It would be an interesting exercise to replace the cross with the moon and star, and "allah akbar". Wonder what the aclu would do then?

#36 Canuckistan

You don't know what you're talking about. The 1st amendment is being abused and perverted by the aclu in its war on Christianity.

# 9 uncle Dave
Good luck and Godspeed.

Really, aren't their more important things for the ACLU to worry about? I'm not a Christain, yet I don't really care. Christianity has played a large role in American history and I don't have a problem acknowleding that role.

Aren't those oil drilling towers in the upper-right section? Those are Muslim holy symbols, aren't they?

They need to go, too. Then get that woman shrounded in an abaya ASAP!

Naked feet, indeed!

#39, LtTw. Penticles, they were added by order of the ACLU so as to be "inclusive". After all, it is LA County you know.

What's the problem? Clearly the County of Los Angeles is trying to force fundamentalist Christianity off onto the citizens of the county, against their wills. Next thing you know, the county sheriff's office will be rounding everybody up on Sunday and making them go to church.

"Church or jail, you're choice atheist-boy"

Somebody has to stop these religious fanatics!

8   RIP Ford  

To be removed at a later date: Pomona -Can't have the state promoting ancient pagan gods, now can we? Next thing you know, people will be sacrificing bulls and having orgies.

As a rule, for some reason, the pagan gods are apparently just fine. As far as the sacrifice and orgy, would that not be a 'California BBQ?"

#36 Canuckistan

separation of church and state comes from the Establishment Clause in the 1st Amendment -- "Congress shall make no law resecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

having religious symbols on municipal seals (the christian cross, the masonic triangle and compass, greek goddesses or the babylonian cow god) does not "establish" religion per se, so it is hardly arguable that there is a violation of church and state here.

but, if people were to perceive it as establishment of religion, I suppose they could argue as such. But the argument really has little weight -- how can a symbol on a seal be used to enforce the practice of a particular religion and prohibit the practice of a different religion not depicted (i.e. the star of david)?

the whole thing is a bunch of hooey, and LA county is being stupid for backing down on this. the ACLU would never win this one in court. They have about as much chance of proving a violation of Establishment Clause with the seals as they would with respect to the symbols on our money. The Supreme Court would laugh them out of the courtroom (IMHO).

What about the cow? Sacred to Hindus.

Now for an economics question. What does this supposed deal mean that LA will have to pay in terms of changing the logo on every:

ambulance
police car
bus
fire truck
municipal building
logo/letterhead for every municipal agency

Is the ACLU going to pay for that? I imagine that the cost will be a couple million dollars to make the changes throughout. If the ACLU wants to make the changes that badly, they should pay for it.

Frankly, I don't see what the fuss is all about. We all know that the freemasons are the ones who are really in charge (as allowed by the lizardoid minions). /sarcasm

#45 Pete(Detroit)

As far as the sacrifice and orgy, would that not be a 'California BBQ?"

LOL

SO here it is summarized: the ACLU is a branch of Al Qaeda intent on imposing Islamic symbols and ideals by implication of its antiChristian action in LA. With Bush and company attempting to force tax-support, faith-based this and that whose SOP is the Bible and the words of Jesus, it was about time we heard from these watchers of the constitution. Now let's get it up to the federal level. Good work, otherwise.

Los Angeles means "The Angels"

Actually, it's even worse than that. The full, original name of the city was

Nuestra Senora, Reina de los Angeles del Porcionculo (sp)

"Our Lady, Queen of the Angels of the Porcionculo"

"Porcionculo" (sp) = "The Little Portion", a chapel within the Church of St. Francis of Assisi, in the same city in Italy.

Hmmmm...

Given the porn industry in LA, perhaps the following would be a more appropriate name...

Nuestra Senora, Reina de los Angeles del Porcionculo

As the article is on a password-protected site, I haven't read it in it's entirety. I assume the ACLU is hauling out the 1st amendment again:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Acknowledging the role Catholic missions played in establishing the community by putting a cross on the municipal seal is, to me, a long way from "establishment of religion".

#36,

Separation of Church and State is not the law. It is a fiction by those who read into the 1st Amendment what they want. The law dictates that the US government cannot officially declare a religion as the religion of the nation, as to stymie the creation of a Church of England or the like.

If separation of Church and State were the law, then every court case and senate/house meeting would be illegal, as the courtroom uses "So Help Me God" and Congress opens each gathering with a prayer (to the Christian God). Then there is the whole matter of money with "In God We Trust"...

Virginia Park Bans River Baptism

#45, Pete (Detroit). Not a bar-b-que, Hollween, the biggest national holiday in the State of California.

Jumping in…

I was at my niece's public high school graduation ceremony this past sunday. It was opened and closed with prayer. Worse yet {hee hee} both prayers ended, "…in the name of our Lord, Jesus christ."! Aaaaand, the Salutatorian's speech opened with thanks to his Lord and Saviour. Big smile crept over my face with those four magic letters crawling at the bottom of my screen: A-C-L-U. too funny.

This article however, brings up the bile. Feh

#36 Canuckistan,

Separation of church and state is the law.

As a matter of fact, it is not.

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

That is the law. There's a lot of difference between establishing a State Religion, and simply having a historical acknowledgement of Religion as part of the fabric of society. By going this far, the ACLU is trying to impose a de facto establishment of religion, by forcing the State to become officially Atheistic.

You know, like the Soviet Union.

#20 V the K: It's worse than that:

The full name of "Los Angeles" is "Nuestra Senora de la Reina de Los Angeles" (or something like that), which translates as "Our Lady the Queen of the Angels." In other words, the Virgin Mary.

If that doesn't merit an ACLU lawsuit for a name change, I don't know what does...

Silly question, but what is a goddess of agriculture doing in anything having to with Los Angeles? The closest "farm" I know of is Knott's Berry Farm, and even that's beyond the Orange Curtain.

St. Mary would actually be quite appropriate, since "Mary" comes from "Miryam" which means "bitter water". Anyone who has made the mistake of drinking LA tap water straight from the faucet will know what I'm talking about.

Did Lorenzo troll just compare a symbol of Christianity to a symbol of slavery? Yes, the two are equivalent, NOT! What's next, is the California legislature going to prohibit distribution of public funds for maintaining the historic missions throughout the state?

On a brighter note, the ACLU of Virginia supported the right of a Baptist group to use a river in a public park for baptisms.

The American Civil Liberties Union of Virginia also said in a statement: "If the park rules allow people to wade and swim in the river, then they must allow baptisms in the river."

The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries.

James Madison

Problem is that when the "Father of the Constitution" made that observation, he never foresaw the resurrection (pardon the expression) of jihadi Isalm or that our nation's stewards would allow organizations like the ACLU or the various Fith Column Moslem and Moslem collaborator organization unrestricted existence.

As many have said - the Constitution is NOT a suicide pact.

#50 Blackman

Still an idiot I see.

SO here it is summarized: the ACLU is a branch of Al Qaeda intent on imposing Islamic symbols and ideals by implication of its antiChristian action in LA eradicating Christianity from the public square. With Bush and company attempting to force tax-support, faith-based this and that whose SOP is the Bible and the words of Jesus, it was about time we heard from these watchers of the constitution. Now let's get it up to the federal level. Good work, otherwise. .

That's better.

Then they also better change the name of their fine city -- Los Angeles -- the city of ANGELS.

Gee, are they going to let the Red Cross continue to get away with such an affront to the constitution? Better change its name to Red Star or something more secular. Regards

#57

You know, like the Soviet Union.

...or canada!

BTW, I thought California was in big money trouble.... any idea how much it will cost the county to replace all the letterhead, envelopes, official stamps, etc.? My guess is it's going to be VERY expensive by the time they are through replacing every seal without the "dreaded" cross...

How about all those crosses in the cemetary. Do they have to go too? Regards

#59 Frank IBC: At one time, until sometime around 1960 I believe, Los Angeles County was the #1 agricultural county in the nation in terms of cash produced by agricultural crops. Now it's Fresno County.

Dennis Prager is on now in LA. He wants Jews to go to the Zev Yaroslavsky (L.A.Supervisor) Office to complain that ACLU is wrong. And I guess Ol' Zev is rolling over, as Dennis is his friend, and wants to correct it

According to the radio, the seal was designed by the late Kenneth Hahn, L.A. County sup. (like ZEV) and the current Mayor's father.

Also, isn't the triangle and the calipers the symbol of the Masons, and the fishie is the symbol of Christ. And the goddess Pomona is crypto-hellenic reference and
cow celebrates East Indian Philosophy and the Hollywood bowl is a wiccan symbol for blood sacrifices.
And the Watts towers in the upper right singles out african American culture at expense of Mexican-American culture...and on and on- you can make up anything. This whole fracas is designed to distract us from impt issues in so Cal. (Maybe get some fees, too.)

#66 EddieP

How about all those crosses in the cemetary. Do they have to go too?

If it's county-owned, probably.

:^P

unfortunately, we Angelenos are going to have to foot the bill for this one...I just paid $200 in parking tickets (damn street cleaning -- and they )never actually clean the damn streets!). I suppose we can expect the parking enforcement officers will be working overtime. thanks a lot ACLU!

-The ACLU's Constitution is like a hotel elevator which skips from Floor 12 to Floor 14.

In this case, it skips from 1 to 3, then from 8 to 11.

-Since someone mentioned sacrifice, I offer Michael Moore on a rotisserie...

"El pueblo del rio de nuestra senora la reina de los angeles de Porceuncala". ("The town of our lady the queen of the angels of Porcheuncala") --named for the little church where St. Francis began his first work (outside Assisi), rebuilding a fallen chapel.
(Los Angeles was founded by Franciscan monks.)
So some renaming will be in order.
SAN Francisco will become just Francisco.
SAN Diego just Diego.
SAN Louis OBISPO will be Louis
BUT, ALBUQUERQUE, derived from Al Buquerk, the magic horse of Mohammed on which he rode to paradise, will be able to keep its name, as will Mecca and Medina.

Slightly OT Dhimmiwatch:

See what happens when you wake people up too early with a call to prayer?

# 68 --- I thought the calipers symbolized breast enlargement surgery, the ship symbolized the Pirates of the Caribbean ride, the fish symbolized sushi, the three towers symbolized the porn industry, the semi circle and stars below symbolized hot tubs, the cow symbolized Rosie O'Donnell and the chick in the middle was Ellen Degeneres

Ah, the "Ministry of Truth" strikes again! and against such a pernicious evil.

Damn them.

OT: Loved this

The Phantom

That portion of the County seal depicts the Hollywood Bowl, the site, among many other things, of a traditional sunrise Easter service, hence the cross depicted above those halfcircles. This was the symbol of the Arts.

The County was in the position of having to choose to spend money on fighting the ACLU or spend money changing the seal. From a very pragmatic point of view, they made the right choice.

#9 Uncle Dave

Hey! can't we get a class action lawsuit on behalf of all Christian Americans for persecution by the ACLU?

After all, they single us out EVERY TIME.

Good hunting, man.

One word: NAMBLA.

-Cody
[Link: www.prudentpolitics.com...]

I have never been to California, so therefore, not to LA, either. However, that seal has been seen many times, and I never even noticed the cross, to be honest. I am Jewish, and that cross doesn't bother me at all. For goodness sake, we have so much going on; a war, terrorism, the invasion of our country by the cult of islam, whose actions should most certainly draw the attention of the damned ACLU, as they are using public schools as mosques, with the full acquiesence of the school districts. Where the hell is the ACLU? On that, which is an abuse of the seperation of Church and State, they are silent. If they realize that islam is a cult, is that why they say nothing? Bull bleep. They are so LLL that the 'L' should stand for liberal.....

The cross is not an issue, anymore than flying the American flag is. Condo boards have given owners a choice...your home or your flag.

Something is very wrong. Idiot groups like the ACLU concentrate on the tiny cross, and totally miss the steadily increasing threat of the cult to our very lives.

Screw the ACLU.

I've been drunk in Los Angeles.

These people give atheism a bad name.

Spend some energy expunging Muslim prayer in public schools.

The ACLU will soon follow suit to change the name of San Francisco to "The Non Denominational City By the Bay."

The cross was used by the Romans to kill people as punishment. Given the recent threat to LAX you'd think instead of eliminating the cross they'd hang a jihadi from it! Strong message to follow.

I bet a crescent moon and a star, or a scimitar, or a camel's nose under the friggin' tent would be just fine with the ACLU.

Next stage: Doing this or this will be forbidden - not to mention this.

I thought the calipers symbolized breast enlargement surgery, the ship symbolized the Pirates of the Caribbean ride, the fish symbolized sushi, the three towers symbolized the porn industry, the semi circle and stars below symbolized hot tubs, the cow symbolized Rosie O'Donnell and the chick in the middle was Ellen Degeneres

"Bartender, I'll have one of what he's having."

Normally I approve of the ACLU's actions if only to remind us that the constitution is not meant to be "flexible" but this seems a bit extreme.

What makes me laugh is that one of the reasons some of our forefathers had for coming here in the first place was the freedom to practice their religion, yet we seem to still haven't gotten it right. For every frivolous ACLU law suit there is a frivolous law suit from the other end of the spectrum decrying some other invasion of their right to practice their religion freely.

What REALLY makes me laugh is this animated image:
[Link: www.humormeonline.com...] (go to the bottom of the page for the penguin animation)

Oh and what made me laugh but probably won't make you laugh is a short story I wrote that oversimplifies our presidential race so far:
[Link: www.speakeasy.org...]

The seal’s other symbols are: a triangle and calipers to represent industry

Now if they had said "education" instead of "industry", that would have been some major BS.

OT,
but Drudge has a story about Bush's daughter
Jenna paticipating in
"a pilgrimage to the holy city of Santiago de Compostela, northwestern Spain." This is basically
a sports event nowadays (like a long hike), without
any religious overtones;
but Santiago de Compostela, the patron saint of
Spain, was otherwise known as "Santiago Matomoros"
("Santiago the Moor-killer").
Hmmmm. . .

I like that they did that. The Christians and Muslims would have demanded it if it were a Star of David instead. Separate of Church and State. It's in the Constitution. The ACLU did the right thing. Come on people...it's the freakin' Constitution!

1: notice the ACLU isn't compaining about the GIANT GODDESS POMONA representation!

2: what's next, Alabama's St. Andrew's Cross on the flag?

#74 V the K

Funny AND accurate.

Compliments.

The ACLU and Los Angeles have reached a compromise -

The cross can stay, but with a little "voice balloon" which says:

"What a hell of a way to spend Easter vacation".

No, Steven, the phrase "separation of church and state" is not in the Constitution.

I personally wouldn't have had a problem with a Star of David on the seal if LA had been founded by Jewish settlers. It's a historical thing.

OT but:

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

needs to have an accident.

Separate of Church and State. It's in the Constitution. The ACLU did the right thing. Come on people...it's the freakin' Constitution!

And which version of the Constitution might you be reading?

steven-

did you even LOOK at post #57? Apparently, you know nothing about American History.

This is not separation of church and state. This is separation of culture from greater culture by a usurping, renegade power. The left uses that phrase so often that people think its written in the 1st amendment.

What's next? Take the word "Angelos" [angels] out of the city name because it smacks of Christianity?! How many absurdities must go forth til the people get fighting mad. The ACLU is a facist organization, and are disgusting hypocrites. I doubt they'll ever take up a real challenge to Islam. Hell, they do the opposite. Look at the burka case in Florida, also taken to the usual absurdist lengths.

Jay Sekulow, a lawyer for the American Center for Law and Justice ([Link: www.aclj.org)...] is one of the few lawyers that is consistently taking them on. I don't know of any counter organization with the ACLU's power and funding.

#89 Seahawk,

So is it a religious pilgrimage or is Ms. Bush just hiking across sunny Spain for recreation? I didn't know that Methodists had holy cities and pilgrimages.

I think #90 left off the /sarcasm or /LLL tags.

Thanks for the props.

it's the freakin' Constitution!

I was watching something recently where they were talking about a recent poll. Something like 40-50% of repondants thought the phrase "From each according to his abilities, To each according to his needs" was in the Constitution.

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" is in the Constitution.

"Separation of Church and State" is NOT.

"It's in the Constitution" reminds me of "don't you read the newspapers?".

#2 zulubaby

Yep. Threaten the LA County board to either reverse their decision or face defeat come election day. Announce your support for the symbol and history. Talk to legal defense funds like the American Center for Law and Justice and the Beckett Fund.

Axiom, I was thinking of something more organized than that. Seriously, what are we going to do about this? Are we able to have any effect?

#101 Renna

A poll was conducted of Ivy League law school faculty and students asking them "what is the first freedom mentioned in the First Amendment".

89% of the respondants were wrong.

The first freedom mentioned in "freedom of religion".

The LA County Board could defeat the ACLU in a lawsuit. It's a battle worth fighting for, although, a better one may be to remove the symbol and use the money that would be spent on lawyers constructing a historical museum or exhibit highlighting the religious history of LA County.

I like that they did that. The Christians and Muslims would have demanded it if it were a Star of David instead. Separate of Church and State. It's in the Constitution. The ACLU did the right thing. Come on people...it's the freakin' Constitution!

No, the Muslims would have set about blowing up buses if the flag had a Magen David on it.

Next on the ACLU hit list?

Change the names of

Los Angeles
San Francisco
San Diego
San Antonio
San Jose
Saint Louis
Saint Paul
Corpus Christi
Saint Augustine
Saint Petersburg

etc..

#105 zulubaby

Was my suggestion not about organization? My suggestions are ideal in forming an organized call to counter the LA County Board. The ACLU is a sleeze organization using their money and pro-bono asshole lawyers to run the racket, but they're not impervious to defeat. They do lose and they aren't happy when it occurs.

#8 RIP Ford

-Can't have the state promoting ancient pagan gods, now can we? Next thing you know, people will be sacrificing bulls and having orgies.

Well, if you change that to a pig cooked on hot rocks in a pit, I went to some of those "worship services" in my misspent youth in the South Pacific. Cool way to "worship"

I haven't read the posts yet, but I thought the original complete name of Los Angeles was Our Lady of the Angels. Have I mentioned that I truly hate PC?

Every one of the ACLU initiatives opposing Religion is directed against Christians, Christianity and Christian Organizations,

If you chaeck the archives---There are literally hundreds (thousands?) of attacks against Christianity and Judeo-Christian Symbols.

Lists of recent or current litigations directed against Christianity, can be found here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here.

I've spent hours on this site---The overwhelming vast majority of attacks (95%+) upon Religion are directed against Christianity.

Very soon, they will be removing the "In G-D We Trust" from all US currency.

Californians better be prepared fot the eventual attacks upon "place names"
"Saint Francisco"
"Saint Diego'
"City of the Angels"
"Saint Jose"
"Saint Clara"
"San Mateo"
"Saint Barbara"
"Santa Ana"
etc---ad infinitum

ACLU - Secular Taliban(something about buddist statues)

#102 Frank IBC

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" is in the Constitution.

What....are you some kind of right-wing gun-nut?

/LLL

What a bunch of assholes the ACLU have become. I have already emailed the county and the ACLU with my thoughts. You should all do the same. I do have a question: What if LA county told the ACLU to stuff it? What if the ACLU sued and nobody came? What if a judge ordered the county to comply and remove the cross and LA did not do so? What could the judge do? Find the county in contempt? So? Fine the county? What if they refused to pay? At some point all this boils down to somebody having to stand up to the ACLU and the courts and JUST SAY NO! You have to admit it would be fun to watch.

I wonder how long it will be before the aclu sues over swearing to tell the truth in court with one hand on the Bible and uttering the words "...so help me God".

The Pomona chick has got to go. I suggest substituting Mary Pickford.
Or, if that's too far back, maybe Katherine Hepburn.

Folks...the first Amendment basically says that the government (among other things) shouldn't endorse a religion. You know...like they do in Saudi Arabia? It's scary. It's not right. Allow people to peacefully worship as they wish...but it's ALWAYS the Christians that get pissed when people say something about the crucifix.

No offense intended. Just my opinion.

If I lived in a town founded by and closely associated with Jews, I would have no problem with a Star of David on city stationary, police cars, etc.

The only way I would see my objecting to it would be if I was an anti-Jewish bigot. Hmmm, I guess it makes sense why the ALCU is doing this.
They've taken their hatered of Chirstianity and try to make it sounds like they only care about law.

Most cities roll over rather then spend the money to fight. I really think it's time for civil disobedience. Do like the gay lobby has done and make it a civil rights issue.

#116 scott in east bay

Remember what happened to Roy Moore down in Alabama when *he* told the courts to stuff it. They removed him from the bench (illegally, it might be added) in what amounted to a kangaroo court.

Face it, dude, we live in a kritocracy.

#65 finneaus,

BTW, I thought California was in big money trouble.... any idea how much it will cost the county to replace all the letterhead, envelopes, official stamps, etc.? My guess is it's going to be VERY expensive by the time they are through replacing every seal without the "dreaded" cross...

It doesn't matter to them. As long as they have the satisfaction of "winning" they are content to screw the city/state in the name of their "rights."

LA has second largest Jewish population in the US but it's the ACLU freaks who come up with this stupid, petty complaint.

#110 - Engineer

Been to a few of those in New Zealand. Maori's call 'em hungis - Fletcher Christian's actions have never been a mystery to me.

They can take the cross out, but um, I have a sharpie. If the opportunity presents itself, I'll put the cross back in the seal. Dare me to graffiti on a sheriff's car?

I'm not a Christian, but I'm irked by their attempt to rewrite history. Clearly the galleon and the building(?) with a cross on it represent the history of the state.

11 V the K

The BCCLU represented anti-abortion students in their quest to have a graphic information booth at UBC. The University administration forced them to take their booth down after complaints from students due to the graphic nature of the booth as well as its comparing abortion to the Holocaust.

Craig Jones, who was at the time the President of the BCCLU, stated he didn't agree with the students anti-choice views but agreed far less with not allowing them a booth.

#119 Steven

You're getting closer. It says the government shall not establish a religion, not 'shall not endorse.' Different words, different meanings. And just perhaps Christians are ALWAYS getting upset about people “saying” something about a cross (they’re doing more than just talking here) because it is their symbols most often attacked? See fiery celt’s #112.

Last month Duluth Minnesota rolled over without a fight. They have a pretty left wing city council there so probably didn't care.

A 10 commandments statue was outside of city hall since the late 1950's. Not one person ever felt pressured to join...........will any ALCU members tell me which church is being promoted here?.......but anyway, they searched and found someone offended.

Local polls ran 9 to 1 to fight the hate group, but as I mentioned, the city council didn't care.

Don't forget, when a Knights of Columbus building hosted a public school class because it had good handicap access, the ALCU forced them to put a towel over up a picture of the Pope.

#116 scott in east bay

I wrote to Yaroslavsky and basically told him to let the ACLU sue...we are already paying for their attorney staff anyway.

What if the ACLU sued and nobody came? What if a judge ordered the county to comply and remove the cross and LA did not do so? What could the judge do? Find the county in contempt?

First, it is a bad move not to show up for court. A judgment will be entered against you by default and if you do not abide by the judgment you are in contempt. People go to jail for contempt.

Its a good fight and not all the supervisors are behind the capitulation. They seem to fear a lawsuit which is ridiculous. I'm going to do a little research on the federal courts that have ordered symbols removed from other city seals and see if the arguments have any teeth. I seriously doubt it, and if there is a split among the Circuits (not altogether unlikely), then this case would give the Supreme Court a chance to take the issue up. I'm not sure where the 9th Circuit would fall on this one.

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Steven, could you explain how a cross on a symbol is a "law respecting the establishment of religion"?

Whoopsy.

Steven (#119)

You're right. Those Christians are always whining about something!

finneaus..

I wonder how long it will be before the aclu sues over swearing to tell the truth in court with one hand on the Bible and uttering the words "...so help me God".

It's already happening---

That last Congressional Hearing regarding 9/11 on
C-SPAN---The Swearing In Oath consisted of---

"Do You Swear To Tell the Truth The Whole Truth and Nothing but the Truth"----

---No Bible
---No G-D

Steven (#119)

...but it's ALWAYS the Christians that get pissed when people say something about the crucifix.

I should hope so since the cross is the symbol of Christianity. Do you realize how silly your statement is?

Jebus, I hate feeding ignorant tools but, like Zulubaby, there's a point when you have to call "bullshit."

Folks...the first Amendment basically says that the government (among other things) shouldn't endorse a religion.

No, hay-brain, it says Congress can not "establish" a state religion. It also says Congress can not prohibit the free exercise of religion. Not a freaking word about the ACLU or the LA County Board.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

There's nothing in there about endorsing religion.

it's ALWAYS the Christians that get pissed when people say something about the crucifix.

Because it's always Christians having every expression of their religion systematically eradicated from public view. You might as well say, "Why is it always Blacks who are the ones complaining about slavery?"

*light bulb overhead*

a better idea is for the County to file a declaratory judgment action in federal court -- get the District Court to rule whether the seal violates the Establishment Clause, fight the inevitable appeal, then try to get cert. from the Supreme Court.

Crazy, just plain crazy.

[Link: lacounty.info...]

Why not just a plain "Happy Face".

Why not get ride of the oil derricks too. This has to offend the "far left" and "environmentalists". The stars represent motion pictures???? or the "Star of David". Isn't that a "sacred cow”? And what about that fish? Isn’t that a “slave ship” too! Just how far does the ACLU want to carry this nonsense?

Don't know if this has already been mentioned, but according to ACLU logic, the Roman goddess and the cow are gonna have to come off of the seal, also. Don't want the county to go around endorsing any pagan religions, either.

Also, my sis-in-law pointed something out about this argument: What about the headstones on graves on federal land, such as military cemetaries? Won't those crosses have to be removed as well? And the stars of David?

Don't those make a statement, too? Sure, they refer to the faiths of fallen individuals, but they ARE on government land, paid for by taxpayers.

I think it would be a waste of money to change all the logos, but if they do, here is my choice for a new one:

[Link: www.123posters.com...]

God bless America

Hedge-it was a metaphor. Of course the County should show up in court if sued, but if a judge orders the County to change the seal, the county should just do - nothing. Say they don't have the money. Say they are getting around to it. Stall. Be very public about the fight. Refuse to appropriate the money to do the change. Basically I am saying that at some point, some government body is going to have to call the ACLU's bluff. The more the ACLU looks ridiculous, the better for the rest of us. And by the way, I am old enough to remember when the ACLU meant something besides this sort of tedious harrassment.

Well, if it is going to happen anyway, I'm all for making this as cheap as possible.

Perhaps instead of removing the cross, they can just connect the ends of the cross and make it look like a big kite flying over the Hollywood Bowl, symbolizing “That Girl” or something.

Every county in every state should just adopt the logo of the New York Yankees. It's beautiful, majestic, and if the ACLU protests it, our Uncle George will just buy them out. :-)

#137

Actually the ACLU and liberal judges only have a problem with Christian symbols.

The public school my sister teaches at is near a reservation and has a large Indian population. They cancelled classes one afternoon to have a powwow. No questioned if that is a religous ceremony.

Indian gods and goddess show up on public property here and there. I have no problem with that, but the ALCU should if they are to be consistant.

Couldn't secularism be construed as a religious belief? And aren't we having the government shove secularism down our throats?

#125 --- Ummm, I asked about the ACLU, not the BCCLU. They aren't even in the same country.

Nice try, though.

This is just outrageous. I'm an atheist, and I think that the ACLU has become thoroughly frivolous and absurd—not to mention petty and vindictive. The establishment clause is to ensure freedom of religion, while the ACLU seems to be intent on establishing freedom from religion. I can understand removing prayer from school, and even banning the ten commandments from courthouses, but this is simply over the line. What about the seal on police cars and police badges in New Orleans? I want that changed because it reminds me of the R.o.P.! It seems that they're looking to split hairs to such an extent that any religious symbolism—especially Christian—will be prohibited in public. And all of this is to say nothing of how the ACLU promotes upholding the "rights" of captured terrorists.

We live in a secular nation, but let's face it; most of us are, to some considerable degree, religious, the majority being Christian. Atheists, agnostics, and those who claim no religious affiliation usually make up less than 10% of the population in the U.S. and the world. The ACLU seems to see fit to impose the worldview of this minority (of which I am a part) upon the rest of the population. You know, the last time I checked, when a small portion of a group demands how the rest of the group must live, think, and believe, it's called fascism.

Last week over coffee with my mother—who is a Christian—I remarked upon the great boon that the Judeo-Christian tradition has been for mankind. Sure, if interpreted literally, the Bible can be rigid and dogmatic, but when applied judiciously, many Judeo-Christian precepts effect a noble distillation of what is best in human morality. This was evidenced recently in widespead American outrage at the Abu Ghraib debacle and the conversely deafening silence in the Arab/Muslim world over the vicious murder of American civilian, Nicholas Berg. Americans, firmly rooted in Judeo-Christian charity and compassion confer mercy and dignity upon its enemies from the battlefield, while the mujahideen revel like monsters in the pain, suffering, and brutal killing of American and Israeli civilians.

The ACLU is increasingly analogous to the spoiled, rich college kid, fresh from the protective nest of Mom and Dad, and rebelling petulantly against the "oppressive ideology of old, white men." Grow up already. I am living proof that one can be an atheist, remain utterly free, and live in harmony and solidarity with my fellow Americans. Plus, Dubya said in that interview that Charles posted the other day that we unbelievers can be great Americans like our neighbors!

/steps off soapbox

The cross that appears in the seal is an actual cross that sits on a hilltop behind the Hollywood Bowl. I pass it everyday. It can be seen from all over Hollywood. The ACLU has been trying to have it removed for thirty years.
In my opinion, the ACLU is no different than the Taliban blowing up ancient Buddahs. They think that they can change history.

#145, patrickafir,

Excellent post. :-)

V the K

Congress can not "establish" a state religion. It also says Congress can not prohibit the free exercise of religion. Not a freaking word about the ACLU or the LA County Board.

just ta let you know that the Establishment Clause [oh, and the 14th Amendment too] applies to the states through the Doctrine of Incorporation. So while you won't find it in the Constitutional text itself, it is well understood to apply equally.

But again, there is no "establishment" of religion in the seal, and no prohibition of free exercise of whatever religion isn't depicted.

The ACLU is no different than the Taliban blowing up ancient Buddahs. They think that they can change history.

Perfect... and absolutely correct.

... except for "Buddahs" which should be spelled "Buddhas."

California has more lawyers per capita than any place else on earth.

Of course they are suing - that's what they do.

I just heard of a case where someone in Southern California sued his neighbor about his building plans - because he was just finishing law school and wanted to have a few cases on his cv. True story! I think the complaint had something to do with sun glinting off the new windows.

The cross represents the influence of the church and the missions of California.

It's a representation of LA county's history, not a religious establishment or endorsement.
The ACLU's argument is based on ignoring that fact clearly stated on the County's web site (along with a misinterpretation of the 1st Amendment).
Perhaps they will argue that those who view the seal are too stupid to realize it represents our history and will feel threatened by the cross.
And, isn't there a large cross (lighted at night) somewhere in the hills near the Hollywood Bowl?

for something to do about this issue, L.|A. Talk host Dennis Prager (he's syndicated aroundthe country) at
dennisprager.com
He is planning a visit to one of the supervisors offices or a newspaper ad. Prager says it is re-writing history, what the toatalitarians do.

Also the seal for the L.A district atty ...is allegedly Moses with the 10 commandments, ck it out.

ACLU's latest triumph,

"LADIES NIGHT" IN NEW JERSEY BARS NOW ILLEGAL

#146 Ringo the Gringo,

The cross that appears in the seal is an actual cross that sits on a hilltop behind the Hollywood Bowl. I pass it everyday. It can be seen from all over Hollywood. The ACLU has been trying to have it removed for thirty years.

Thanks. I should refresh before I post.

#143 Funny you bring that up. I was talking to a friend last week about the Duluth case and saying the same thing. Basically they are forcing their religion of secularism on us.

The constitution says one religion cannot be imposed on us, but that is what the ALCU and their allied judges are doing. If you send your kid to a public school, the government is practicing the religion of secularism on them.

ACLU is terrible to Christians and Jews. An ugly leftist organization that's a major generator of anti Semitism since 90% of their psycho lawyers are Jews and people tend to notice this. This really sucks!!!

Yes, this is one Jew who is very upset at this cross on the LA seal being under assault by godless fuckers.

See here, folks...

Noticing that 99.9% of the animals that are slaughtered at a cattle feed-yard are [drumroll] cattle, is about the same as noticing that the majority of the ACLU 'religion suits' are anti-Christian, since that has the enormous "integrated area" under the historic population curve.

The ACLU has gotten into a kind of moronic funk, it seems. At one time, on a planet far far away, it, and the NAACP were fine upstanding organizations that were spiriting along things such as the womans suffrage movement, or african-american civil equality, and so on. They were a potent political force, a "philosophical union" of sorts, able to turn entire elections through their clout.

Then they kind of "ran out of things to fix". The african and hispanic americans [and the asians, and amerinds] got full and equal treatment under the law, and practiced near-everywhere. A little surveilance and careful oversight to ferret out the offenders of the new order, the ACLU had its hands full. Now, however, they've become a vapid (yet still politically stout and potent) institution that literally makes the U.N. look progressive by comparison.

Its all about crosses, and religious symbols, about headscarves and rights, about the insinuation of The State in The Family as trumped up as "childrens rights". Not that children don't have rights, of course. But it has all gone into the proverbial shitter: families across the nation, rarely with any public notice or fanfare, are scrutinized by the Social Workers for all sorts of supposed imbrecations and infractions, based, of course, on the fabrications of their phantasy-lovin' progeny. Oh, most of the stories turn out OK, but not to the individual families whose whole order is thrown upside-down by accusations of abuse and mistreatment.

But the laughable [actually, "actionable" in my opinion] aspect of this is that there are chronically abusive, wayward, and in "off the radar" families all across the land, in the Crack Gulches of every major city, that never get so much as a glance from the same sanctimonious social workers. Why? Cuz its dangerous, stinky, hard, and not likely to forward one's career, unlike a hi-profile suburbia conspiracy.

Why so much about the Scott Peterson trial? Just another murder, to me ... in a country that has 23,000 of them per year (or more). Why the big hooha?

Because in the end, it is all about the #1 enemy of a well run society: the Media and their predaliction toward hubris and verve.

Chalk up the ACLU and the NAACP into the same bin.

GoatGuy

fucking ACLU = major generators of anti Semitism.

The bastard Jews in the ACLU have much to answer for. As a Jew I want to disown them.

Gee, were was the ACLU when Irv Rubin was murdered the day his trial was going to START!

Corpus Christi

Actually, when the navy rolled out the ship named after that city, Catholic "peace" groups forced the Navy to re-name it "City of Corpus Christi".

Doesn't this put the aclu at odd with their otherwise brothers in arms the "aztlan" kids? after all, the whole aztlan claim is about the long spanish/latino history of California pre-USA.

#119 Steven

Would you object to a county symbol with the star of david on it if that part of the country was originally settled, cultivated and supported by Jewish immigrants and settlers?

The point of the cross in LA County is to recognize the heritage of LA County. There are countless religious symbols found on the campuses of Harvard and Yale due to their history as seminaries. Each school is the recipient of millions of dollars from the government. Yet those religious symbols remain because they are the history of the schools.

If Hell were to freeze over and this scenario were possible...

I would travel to Mecca. Build a Catholic community. And seek to build a Catholic church. However, if the county, state or country symbols were a crescent and a star I would not seek to change the history of the area.

The ACLU's history is rooted in the United Church of Christ's affliliation with the Communist and Socialist parties. The leads tie the organization itself as a Soviet outfit, although it's unclear if this occurred before or after the establishment of the organization. There's plenty of reason to believe that the ACLU's sole purpose is the demise of Christianity and that legitimacy is obtained through the so called defense of the bill of rights, except for the 2nd and 10th amendments which they selectively pretend do not exist.

You can tie this into how the media thinks.

If a KKK member brings a lawsuit to ban any memorials to Rev Martin Luther King because the constitution bans promoting race, we would hear about it nonstop. Imagine if several racists brought lawsuits saying the government can't recognize Rev Kings birthday for the same reason.

But thie ACLU's anti-Christain crusade is primarily a quiet news item just reported locally. No outcry from big media.

"Last week over coffee with my mother—who is a Christian—I remarked upon the great boon that the Judeo-Christian tradition has been for mankind. Sure, if interpreted literally, the Bible can be rigid and dogmatic, but when applied judiciously, many Judeo-Christian precepts effect a noble distillation of what is best in human morality. ... Americans, firmly rooted in Judeo-Christian charity and compassion confer mercy and dignity upon its enemies from the battlefield, while the mujahideen revel like monsters in the pain, suffering, and brutal killing of American and Israeli civilians."

I'd say it otherwise: without the Judeo-Christian dogma of man as a deliberate creation of God in His image for His purposes, there is no rational basis for asserting that man has any duty to exhibit charity, mercy, and compassion toward his neighbor, nor any dignity warranting respect by his neighbor. Western morality is inextricably linked to Christian dogma; take that away and all that remains is tribal self-interest and Nietzschean will-to-power.

144,

Ummmm, same calender, different page. Civil liberty unions world wide have generally very similar agendas.

I guess I should have been clearer that I was discussing a foreign CLU chapter but you caught me;)

If a CLU in lefty Canada has actually defended anti-choice students I am sure they must have done so in the US too.

The County of Los Angeles would like to thank the fine folks at LFG for their observations on the various religious symbols that have been offending the ACLU for so long.

In accordance with these observations, we have redesigned the Seal which can be viewed here.

Thank you for your time and interest.

patrickafir---

The ACLU is increasingly analogous to the spoiled, rich college kid, fresh from the protective nest of Mom and Dad, and rebelling petulantly against the "oppressive ideology of old, white men."

This is alot more dangerous and insidious than that---

This is the rewriting of history and the removal of symbolic elements in this country.

It's about the undermining of foundations and the elimination of the original basis for our Laws.

It's about the elimination of our inalienable rights ---Endowed by our Creator, and are instead dependant upon a higher secular authority.

Its about the prohibition of religious worship and symbolism, of a specific group.

Its about the imposition of a secular atheistic ideology, in place of a religion.

It's about the imposition of "hate speech" legislation and pressures, upon a politically incorrect Religion. Thus controls upon Religious doctrine, speech and scripture resulting in the limitation of thought.

It's about the eradication of the foundations of our laws, ---Thus elimination any theological basis or precedent for existing laws.

It's about the circumvention of the will of the people by legislation from the bench, by a manipulative minority.
It's about Judicial tyranny ---A Fascistic Oligarchy,

In browsing for the seals of LA County I found something bad.

"Jews Attack Mexican Heritage
in Los Angeles County"

SPLC on La Voz De Aztlan

There's widespread opposition to the ACLU from anti-semitic groups. The perception here is not good.

#167, county of los:

Nice try, but what is the meaning of all that blue in that there symbol? You tryin' ta hoist a police state on us?
:-)

Ah-HAH! I KNEW IT!! All that blue in that there symbol (#167) represents Israel! Damn Zionists! Nothing's safe from them!

:-)

The cross can't be seen from inside the Bowl, but it can be seen from the freeway.

Hollywood Bowl

#167 County of Los

You are wiley, sir county, but no match for the americus whinerus. We will still find things to complain of in your seal.

It has seven sections, an obvious Judeo-Christian reference to the days of the week/creation of the world.

Its roundness is obviously gyno-centric and therefore oppressive to the male gender.

Those diamond type decorations make me feel like they might be religious in nature, and as we know from the "niggardly" case, it doesn't matter if the item actually is offensive, just if it makes me feel so.

The words "county" and "of" are written in English only. Not very inclusive or multicultural. Racist, even, if you ask me.

The word "count" in county is offensive to those unable to do math functions.

The colors red, white, and blue are too jingoistic.

It now reminds me of a port hole which makes me think of The Love Boat. Nuff said.

Sorry if someone has already posted this, but I can't believe this guy actually said this. It seems the U. of Tx. President is going to seek a requirement that students spend at least one semester studying another culture, because - and I quote - "It's evident to all of us right now that we don't know nearly as much about Islamic culture as we need to know."

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

WHAT are we coming to?

#167 The County of Los -

Sorry, but there is still the shape of the cross in the background.

And the color red is unacceptable because it is symbolic of "Red America", America's own Vichy France which enables the tyranny of the Republican Party.

:P

#166, Actually, a quick google search provides the answer. The ACLU website --- rather absurdly --- cites its role in advising state legislatures in crafting laws restricting the rights of anti-abortion protesters back in 1994 as an example of protecting the free speech of those protesters. The ACLU itself can not cite a single example of defending an aboortion opponent's right to protest.

It's telling enough that the ACLU, which endorses the broadest possible interpretation of Free Speech under other occasions, insists that abortion rights protesters can be confined, contained, and restricted and their free speech rights are not being violated unless they are absolutely prohibited from protesting or threatened with physical violence.

No one can stop Nazis can march through a Jewish neighborhood chanting anti-semitic slogans according to the ACLU, but pro-lifers can be confined to a a six foot square of sidewalk nine miles from the abortion clinic, and that's not a restriction of Free Speech.

In the same way, to the ACLU, any mention or depiction of Christian faith in the public realm is a crime against humanity, but coerced Muslim prayers in school are just fine.

An Israeli guy hitches a ride in Jerusalem. He's picked up by another Israeli, who's listening to the news on an Arabic station.

The hitchhiker asks, "Why are you listening in Arabic? Why don't you turn on the news in Hebrew?"

The driver says, "Well, when I listen to the Hebrew news, I hear about the terrible economy, the terrorist attacks, and how the whole world hates us. But when I listen to the Arab news, I hear how the Jews have all the money and power, and control the world..."

#174 My 2 Sense

May I recommend the UT President surround himself with a 6' radius of chicken wire. I don't want him to get hit by a full glass bottle, just broken bits.

In my local library, there was a poster which said "Understanding Islam".

I dug up a news magazine from September 2001, walked over to the xerox machine, and calmly posted a picture of the burning twin towers under that idiotic headline.

re: #177,

Sorry. I should have prefaced, OT.

Good night all.

I touched the image on my computer screen and it burned my skin! I went to pour some water on it, and it was holy water! It burned my skin too./Goofy mode off. The ACLU really is foolish.

OT: Massive (according to FNC) Explosion at US Base in Kirkuk, Iraqi police say rocket hit (ammo dump? Not sure- they're back to another story...) I hope no one was killed.

#167 Los Angeles

Sorry...it still looks like a cross. Try again

Umm ... County of Los Angeles here again...

OK, we'll go back to the drawing board and get back to you.

Thanks for your input. We had idea that we were so fucking insensitive.

#43 gymnast

Thank you EVER so for clearing that up!

I shall sleep this night, after all.

/snickering

#9 uncle dave, GOOD LUCK :-)

#169   Axiom aka Iron Chef Patton

Those people are not only irrational, they're downright dangerous. Incidentally, I never realized that the cross of Christianity was "Spanish." Ethnocentric co-option—yay.

I have many Mexican friends from when I lived in California, and to my knowledge, none of them are in thrall to this sort of Jew-hatred. Of course, I do have common standards of decency as regards who I'll associate with.

C'mon, everybody, let's cut to the chase:

Where's WALDO?

County is an anagram of "oy" + "c**t", so it has to go, too.

You know, it just occurred to me. My nick might be very offensive to people. I mean, the Vikings were really mean nasty people, who probably raided and pillaged the villages of the ancestors of many of the people on this forum. Some people probably even suffer from PVPTSD (Post-Viking Pillage Traumatic Stress Disorder), and my nick is probably highly offensive to them.

I could just go by my Christian name, but that would just open up a whole 'nother can o' worms.

This reminds me of the "My Parrot Got Kidnapped to Topeka" sketch on Carol Burnett about 20 years ago.

y los, #183,

That nic of yours - is that some kind of hidden message in Spanish you're trying to pass by us? :-)

OT, but RNC MOCKS KERRY LIFESTYLE IN WEB GAME

www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,121489,00.html

Alrighty then. After considerable discussion and reflection on our transgressions against everybody who has ever lived, and taking into account comments on draft 1 of the new seal, we proudly unveil Draft 2.

Thank you.

Y Los -

Sorry, but the "Y" is unacceptable, because of its unfortunate association with the phrase "eat at the Y".

#193, frank IBC,

And that circular thing he's got going there - too Wiccan. BTW, does the ACLU have a logo? Gosh, I'd love to see that one.

Y Los

Sorry, now it looks like a happy face on drugs.

192 y los

I don't know, that "y" looks like a cross.
And the Spanish pronoun "los" is masculine and therefore sexist.
California is offensive, because it suggests
caliente, calor - "hot" and fornication "sex" eg. hot sex.

Keep trying.

Also, a Y looks kind of like a cross with the arms bent up and the middle bit on top removed. Just to be safe, better ditch it.

#192   y Los

You know, even though I'm fluent in Spanish (quiero decir yo amo todos de mis amigos aqui en los futbolitos verdes), my native tongue is English, and the Spanish article "los" comes across as culturally insensitive.

Actually, I'm willing to accept the latest seal. Not because I can't find anything else to be offended by, but because I'm bored with it.

Here I sit at college, spending my parent's money, and I want to protest things 'cuz it's so way cool. But I get bored easily as I have no real convictions.

I know! Let's dissect all the un PC stuff in Shrek 2 next!

Re #154 referenced post:

In his ruling Tuesday, J. Frank Vespa-Papaleo, director of the state Division on Civil Rights, rejected arguments by the nightclub that ladies nights were a legitimate promotion. Commercial interests do not override the "important social policy objective of eradicating discrimination," he ruled.

Is it just my imagination, but does it seem like that a lot of these discrimination issues are being brought up by or involving people with hyphenated last names, like Judge Vespa-"Scooter" here? Just wonderin'...

ACLU Logo

Sorry y Los, try again.

"y Los California" could be an anagram for "RNC falsia oiyl" which reminds us of the Bushitler war for oil which was built on lies.

Y los:

Try this logo

85 RC neo-Jew

You mentioned *this*?

Begging for a fatwa, aren't you?

;^}

Isn't the "Y" the symbol for the Aryan Nations and their ilk?

Draft 3?

Addicted Lizardoid:
Your proposed logo smacks uncomfortably of white supremacy.

The ACLU is not being nearly as vigilant as they ought to be. That LA county seal contains only objectionable images. They all have to go. Consider:

The cross? Gone!

The fish? It's a Jesus fish. Outta there!

The cow? Sacred to Hindus. Buh-bye!

The ship? Symbol of Western imperialism and naval oppression. Sayonara!

The oil wells? Symbols of Western exploitation of the resources of down-trodden people. Unacceptable!

The calipers and T-square? Masonic conspiracy symbols. Gone!

The woman with a halo? Symbol of a female saint. Gone!

Come on, ACLU. You're falling down on the job!

201 Frank IBC

Gee, that won't do. It's too white.

#203 --- An all-white logo? Enjoy being the NAACP's biyatch.

"American" = offensive because it represents the state which enslaved Africans, ethnically cleansed Native Americans, and which continues to oppress the world

"Civil" = offensive to the Etiquette-Impaired.

"Liberties" = offensive to those who have a phobia of 200-foot-tall women made of copper

"Union" = offensive to polytheists and diversity consultants.

#145 Patrickafir

Excellent Post!

#168 Firey Celt

>This is the rewriting of history and the removal of symbolic elements in this country.

#206 .

Sorry, still won't do.

"California" rhymes with "Narnia" (sort of0

Narnia is a place in books written by a right-wing religious fanatic who probably wanted to use them to break down the wall of separation between church and state.

V the K

I could just go by my Christian name, but that would just open up a whole 'nother can o' worms.

"Christian Name"

Unacceptable phraseology;

Implies Christian preference for certain first names---thus could be construed as intolerant and exclusionary.

Cease and desist from the usage of Christian Names or judicial action will follow-

/ACLU off

Regarding your handle---"fiery celt" sets some people's "blood a boilin'"

y not change the name "los angeles" as well? the literal translation is "the angels", and aren't angels a symbol of christianity? we wouldn't want to offend LA non-christian LA-residents....

Damn, this is 54 hours too early to be a drinking thread. :(

Although the US Department of Labor is reporting a sudden, unexplained drop in the productivity index for American workers.

Re my #208

Okay, it isn't a T-square. But you get the point, right?

Frank IBC (#205)

Isn't the "Y" the symbol for the Aryan Nations and their ilk?

I thought it was more to do with this.

Soon I will be forced to change my screenname because "Frank" has unfortunate associations with the lesbian joke of which the punchline is "No, let ME be Frank."

And "IBC" sounds disrespectful of the Ebonics language.

Charles I really appreciate this coming from you...you are a responsible balanced Secularist like many others on this board.....however there are some really anti christian bigots in America and on this board....and this is what they are attempting to do......Eradicate America's Christian history........

We musnt' forget what made America good......we musn't forget about our deeply held Judeo/Christian roots and civilization........without them we will turn to a secular nightmare where freedoms are akin to 1984.

This is a sad day for America...

Devon

OT
but Drudge has a note that "crusade" has
been dropped from Ike's D-Day speech:

"In a speech at the US Air Force Academy graduation, Bush recited part of General Dwight Eisenhower's message to troops ahead of the D-Day landings but carefully quoted around the term, which has deeply negative connotations in the Muslim world.

"'Soldiers, sailors and airmen of the Allied Expeditionary Force,'" Bush quoted Eisenhower as saying. "'The eyes the world are upon you. The hopes and prayers of liberty-loving people everywhere march with you."

Eisenhower's original message to the troops opened with: "Soldiers, Sailors, and Airmen of the Allied Expeditionary Force: You are about to embark upon the Great Crusade, toward which we have striven these many months.

"The eyes of the world are upon you. The hope and prayers of liberty-loving people everywhere march with you."

We surrender. Would Zulubaby's logo offend anyone?

Acceptable Religious Logo

I have an uncle who lives in Pomona. I guess he will have to have new stationary printed up.

#214 fiery celt: Actually, given your name, I had assumed that you were a Druid.

I picture a Druid with red hair, sallow complexion, and pinched expression from being mad all the time.

Frank --- I may be in more trouble on this board considering Mohammed (Rosie O'Donnell's Big Fat Ass Be Upon Him) was a cat-person.

"Soldiers, Sailors, and Airmen of the Allied Expeditionary Force: You are about to embark upon the Great Crusade, toward which we have striven these many months.

"The eyes of the world are upon you. The hope and prayers of liberty-loving people everywhere march with you."

"Soldiers" - reminds one of "The Little Soldier".

"Sailor" - see "Hi, Sailor."

"Striven" - offensive and exclusionary to the Shiftless Community.

"Hope" - offensive to Democrats.

"Prayers" - speaks for itself.

#225 Gordon -

I had the same thought - LOL!

(OK, joke's over. Who's impersonating Gordon today? :) )

*ahem*

My apologies. I thought that merely having the absence of any color whatsoever would shelter me from charges of advocating one color over another, but it appears advocating no color over any is just as offensive. I shall endeavor to change it right away.

Would purple be an acceptable color? It's not a skin tone. Wait, no; it indicates royalty. Bad purple.

Orange? Nah, prefers certain California counties over others.

Chartreuse? Eww. Offends the senses.

#225:

Maybe the monitor you're using has too much reflection off the screen.

"Mohammed" = "De Mom Ham" = "The Mother of All Pigs".

#145 patrickafir

This whole petty controversy reminds me of a decade ago when names like Washington, Jefferson, and Franklin were removed from New Orleans public schools since they had owned slaves at one time, never mind that they were some of the founders of the planet's first democracy.

Frank IBC, V the K, RWC (I know you're in here somewhere!), rebmiami and all of you, I'm ROFL! If wit was a weapon, ACLU and the jihadis wouldn't stand a chance.

I find the bear on the California flag offensive to my pet-loving sensibilities. That bear was forced to pose, I just know it! Paging PETA!!

I would like to see zulubaby's symbol on our flag, instead of the bear.

And btw, I don't know of a Los Angeles, I assume you're all talking about Elay.

As a Jew I find the attack on Christian symbols that are the foundation of this countries greatness dispicable. The ACLU and its Stalinist thugs are trying to erace all vestiges of the founding principles of this country. They are like the dogs in "Animal Farm," mindlessly spouting, "four legs good, two legs bad."

Remove Christianity and erase morality and anything goes. The free reign of licentiousness is their goal. By pulling out the fundamental pins upon which this great society has been built, the ACLU hopes to destroy the very principles upon which this country was founded. Erasing the important symbols like the cross and the ten commandments is only their first step. Why does a cross offend anyone?

As a Jew, I stand with my Christian brothers and sisters. Do not let these nihilists win the battle to destroy your way of life. The world they want is not one I want to live in.

God bless the United States of America. Will they throw me in jail for writing that?

See, the ACLU does things pro-Christianity too!

Baptism in the Parkwww.cnn.com...] target="_blank">

Gordo

I picture a Druid with red hair, sallow complexion, and pinched expression from being mad all the time.

Actually I'm petite, fair-skinned, green-eyed with red hair.
I've been told often that I'm quite beautiful.
( Of coure, I have issues with my appearance but...)

Gordy,

I've pictured you as a pimply faced, socially inept, narcissistic dweeb, with an artifically distorted, pretention opinion of your own intelligence and importance.

I have tried to cut you some slack, out of pity, because I have realized that you are emotionally emcumbered with the stigma of your grossly undersized penis.

Wow, that would spoil anybody's good mood, meds or no meds.

oops, the link didn't work:

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

I guess since we just made over Los Angeles County's seal, we need a new candidate for "Lizard Eye for the Troll Guy". Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..

#59 Frank

Um... my mom grew up in the Lamert Park area of LA (Dorsey HS), and used to take the street car over to the Inglewood area to visit her grandmother on her small farm.

My husband's grandfather had a small farm in Bellflower.

I grew up in Granada Hills (San Fernando Valley..ooooh...must change that Christendom establishing name!) when it was chock full of citrus groves. One of the biggest names in agriculture in So. Cal is/was the Irvine Company. And the Inland Empire was not much more than vineyards and winerys.

The ACLU is cracked. This attempt to Bowdlerize the history of California, let alone America, of any of its religious traditions smacks of Stalinism.

#238 joshowitz5

I note that the aclu didn't actually do anything.

Sort of off-topic:

No Longer 'Ladies Night' in New Jersey Bars
Wednesday, June 02, 2004
TRENTON, N.J. — The state's top civil rights official has ruled that taverns cannot offer discounts to women on "ladies nights," agreeing with a man who claimed such gender-based promotions discriminated against men.

ARGH - Bush can't even repeat Ike's D-Day speech verbatim because it included the words Great Crusade, when referring to the landings to liberate the European continent from fascism.

[Link: www.drudgereport.com...]

It is time for PC to die. Faster. Please.

I also wrote the County Supervisors, at Dennis Prager's behest. E-mail's a great thing.

So, I have a suggestion. Let's rename all the cities in LA County. I suggest using Classic Greek or Roman names, since the Pomona goddess is acceptable to the ACLU. I would suggest Los Angeles be renamed Niketown, since I am a jogger and would like to see a merger of State and jogging tracks. I recommend that the County Hall of Supervisors be renamed Cesaer's Palace, since I dig Vegas, daddy-o. And Santa Monica can be renamed Moscow since that is pretty appropriate.

Just a suggestion.

joshowitz5 ;

That was a token defense upon a Christian cause---

Baptism in the Park

Check the ACLU website and it's impossible to not notice the predominance of attacks upon Christianity and Judeo-Christian foundations and symbols.

Of course, the actual impetus behind these attacks, is upon the history, freedoms and foundations within our society, and our existing rights, laws and mores.

Subversion from within---

#189 V the K:

Kittens also have a pretty vicious rep.

;-)

ACLU is also promoting Islam.

ploome.

he is really a pasty balding trembling blob

tied to a chair, dribbling from a UTI, onto the floor of the hallway, he inhabits

he smells yukky also

"dribbling from a UTI, onto the floor of the hallway, he inhabits

eeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwww!

You are exquisitely imaginative-

Sorry to differ with so many here. But this kind of governmental preference toward one religion over others would be contrary to a long line of Supreme Court decisions by justices of various political and religious stripes, notwithstanding the dissent of one recently defrocked Alabama state justice.

The First Amendment bars the government establishing a religion or holding one above the others. This government seal clearly does so, even though it is probably only in an historical context.

Taking off the symbol of Christianity from that government's one and only official emblem is not erasing it from the history books or from any private entitiy's choices of worship. It is simply disallowing the government to continue to point to one religion as more significant than another in its seal. A seal, after all, signifies, or is at least understood by most to signify, the current values and purposes behind the organization it depicts.

Having the same picture in a government art museum, a government tourist or history brochure or in many other historical contexts where the government's primary purpose was to display history or cultural diversity, would be totally appropriate.

It is a good point that "Los Angeles" itself has religious connotations. But it has been anglicised (no pun) for so many years that the religious values it expresses are not now paramount in its meaning. "Los Angeles, CA" now means a city where every form of religion is equally regarded by its government. The current city seal does not adhere to that requirement of our Constitution.

Fiery Celt,

I agree that the ACLU seems to like beating on the majority of any group. I think they keep pushing for the "little guy" in every fight, which is guaranteed to make you unpopular.

Also, it could be that judeo-christian symbols are more prevalent. I don't see too many buddhist symbols in American culture.

This time though I think they've gone too far, and I'm surprised LA is capitulating.

But nobody liked the penguins (you have to scroll down once you click the link) or hated my story ? Oh well...

WAAAY OT - Ethanol? How'd they get away with this in *Iran*????

They have already attacked and won in Redlands, CA. Redlands didn't have the money to fight it...

ACLU attacks Redlands, CA

RufusLeeKing

Taking off the symbol of Christianity from that government's one and only official emblem is not erasing it from the history books or from any private entitiy's choices of worship....

Check the ACLU website---

It's the removal of all Judeo-Christian references, historic associations, worship and symbols from the public square, institutions, schools and from public view.

However, depictions and references of any other religions are in fact promoted and defended.

The goal is the eradication of Judeo-Christian representations. references and elements from our society and culture, thus undermining the Judeo-Christian foundations to our laws and civilization.

Wildly stupid. Couldn't they just attribute it to the history of the city? Does Alaska get sued for using Indian totem poles in tourism photos? What about the city of Corpus Christi, Texas? Can it keep its name? What about San Francisco, San Diego and San Jose, all named after Catholic saints? What about the various state mottos that mention God? Does the fact that the mottos are in Latin mean that the Vatican has taken over? Oh, Help us, ACLU!! Help us!!

#236 fiery celt

LOL!!!

Excellent.

>

Check the ACLU website---

It's the removal of all Judeo-Christian references, historic associations, worship and symbols from the public square, institutions, schools and from public view.

The ACLU once actually did some important stuff. But to waste time and alienate people over crap like this means they don't care about average America anymore!

Meant to say I'm not impressed with or defending the ACLU's motives of evenhandedness. Just the LA council's decision on this issue.

I've added my 2 cents with an email to all 5 of the County Supervisors, as well as called the office of my Supervisor - Michael Antonovich. At least Mr. Antonovich was recorded in the press this morning as being as outraged as his constituents over the surrender / appeasement of the ACLU.

It's upsetting that the ACLU is in effect conspiring with judges who are legislating from the bench to redefine our society into their utopian viewpoint.

This is yet another case of threats and intimidation based on the misconception that the Constitution says Freedom FROM Religion as opposed to the actual fact where it says Freedom OF Religion.

251 RufusLeeKing

I disagree.

The cross is a historical reference to the founding of Los Angeles as a mission town.

From Britannica Online:

"On August 2, 1769, a Spanish expedition headed by Gaspar de Portolá, searching for mission sites, camped near a river they named the Porciúncula, in honour of Our Lady the Queen of the Angels of Porciúncula (Nuestra Señora la Reyna de los Angeles de Porciúncula)."

Let's not revise history.

I feel otherwise about religious displays in public places.

What about the torture tweezers? They should be removed too.

#251

The First Amendment bars the government establishing a religion or holding one above the others. This government seal clearly does so

No, it doesn't, unless you're prepared to maintain that all designs with perpendicular intersections are "Christian" in their very nature. Are you prepared to argue that graphic designs have "essential" meanings?

It is simply disallowing the government to continue to point to one religion as more significant than another in its seal. A seal, after all, signifies, or is at least understood by most to signify, the current values and purposes behind the organization it depicts.

I agree that it's simple: the first amendment says -- and let's quote it precisely, shall we? -- that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Hmm. *Congress* shall make no law... This is a prohibition on Congressional legislation... Upon what constitutional basis do you extend this prohibition to other branches, and down to little local governments and their constituencies? I'm not a legal scholar -- I honestly don't know.

Also, what's the practical alternative for the seal-maker? Quotas for religious symbols?

#145 patrickafir

Nice post. Keep 'em coming

This is yet another case of threats and intimidation based on the misconception that the Constitution says Freedom FROM Religion as opposed to the actual fact where it says Freedom OF Religion.

The First Amendment on religion: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

Government cannot prohibit anyone from practicing religion. But neither can it establish or advance one religion above others.

This is not a local decision. Not some PC weighing, like using presidents names on schools is. This is a national Constitutional requirement that will trump any other government decision or law. There is no way around this. The LA Supervisors merely recognized the writing on the wall, provided by years of Supreme Court decisions, inclusing the Rehnquist court.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

Funny, I didn't know that LA County was Congress ...

I always like to ask the psychological reasons behind goofy and/or hateful acts.

The ACLU hunts for things like 10 commandments monuments. When they find one, they look for someone locally to bring a lawsuit. Remember last year...there were 10 of them in Utah donated in the 1950's. The asses in the ACLU found 9, and then started advertising to figure out were the last one was. How could they be offended when they didn't even know where it was?

What causes them to do this? Do they get an adrenalin rush when they find one and start the thugery?

#260 RufusLeeKing

Just the LA council's decision on this issue.

It was nothing less than surrender / appeasement to a threat by the ACLU.

The First Amendment says -

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

No, it doesn't, unless you're prepared to maintain that all designs with perpendicular intersections are "Christian" in their very nature. Are you prepared to argue that graphic designs have "essential" meanings?

Of course. The courts will analyze the intent of the message. If its a crosshair rather than a crucifix, its not religious and therefore not an attempt to establish a religion or religious preference.

This is a prohibition on Congressional legislation... Upon what constitutional basis do you extend this prohibition to other branches, and down to little local governments and their constituencies?

The 14th Amendment applies such Congressional restraints to every state. Each local branch of government, city, county, is legally part of the state.

264 godfrey

New York might have to remove the Dutch windmills from our State and City seals.

Then there is the Star of David formation on the Great Seal of the United States. Look on the back of your dollar bill.

Where will it end ?

The relevant portion of the 14th amendment reads:

No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

If anyone can explain to me how a cross in the LA County seal is a state abridging the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States, or depriving any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law, or denying any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws - I'm all ears.

We have to take the Constitution back from pinhead judges who just make shit up as they go along to suit their political agendas.

Hey, howabout if the ACLU wins this case, they have to fund every aspect of the reworking and removal of the logo, since it seems like they are the only ones that want it. Put your money where your mouth is.

A$$hole Communists Lynching Us

Another Cretinous Leftist Union

Arrogant Cabal of Leninist Underlings

It was nothing less than surrender / appeasement to a threat by the ACLU.

Do you think the Rehnquist Court's recent banning of the Ten Commandments in the Alabama state courthouse was just an appeasement of the ACLU? I think it was a pure application of the First Amendment.

And I think this LA case would lose on the same grounds, had the supervisors not heeded the courts' long string of rulings on this issue.

272

The 14th Amendment holds the states to not interfere with the Bill of Rights, being the "protection of laws".

So states can't craft their own exceptions to the Bill of Rights.

Whats so pinhead about that?

#270

Thanks for the clarification re: the 14th amendment. I obviously need to re-read this thing regularly.

It's funny how the word "establishment" in your prose tends to have synonyms hanging around it, such as "advance" -- which is clearly not the same thing. "Establishment" is a legal word; it's hard and definite, and it connotes finality. "Advance" is ambiguous and subjective; it's an ongoing action. Proving that a law (*law* is quite precise, isn't it?) actually establishes a given religion should be straightforward. Proving that a seal "advances a given religion" is a lot harder. You seem to think that an "advance" is clear in this case. I don't. I think you have to be excruciatingly sensitive to see an insidious "advance" in this seal's design.

As for graphic designs and essential meanings: if designs had essential meanings, there'd be no need for the court to hash it out. It would be self-evident. I'm curious, though. Are you saying that *any* arrangement of things in a perpendicular, intersecting way "advances Christianity"?

This particular seal doesn't exactly have the corpus of Christ hanging on the cross, bleeding, etc., you have to admit. That's the Catholic way. Without the Christ, you have the austere Protestant version. Is it just Protestant Christianity the ACLU is after?

#271 Bigsmoke

Then there is the Star of David formation on the Great Seal of the United States. Look on the back of your dollar bill.

Zionist conspiracy!

That's pretty kewl! I never realized that 13 stars (obviously representing the original colonies) can be arrange to form the Mogen David ( I guess the Masons would call it the Seal of Solomon).
/ coincidence? I don't think so...

[bwahaha]

#275 RufusLeeKing

The Bill of Rights is not mentioned in the 14th Amendment. And I'll say it again:

If anyone can explain to me how a cross in the LA County seal is a state abridging the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States, or depriving any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law, or denying any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws - I'm all ears.

272

The privileges and immunities that can't be abridged by states include the privileges afforded them under the Bill of Rights.

#279 RufusLeeKing

So then we're back to the first amednment which says:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

Back to the 14th:

"... nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

i.e., within the state's jurisdiction, i.e., vis a vis state laws.