The Saudis are our friends. It's important not to forget that.

2nd!!!

Damn Zionists!

/sarcasm off

Considering how often it seems that that "journalists" are willing to stand by to let others be attacked, maimed and killed so they can take photos and report on it, it's hard to generate much sympathy for this guy having the roles reversed.

News flash to dumbass reporter, They don't give a shit that your muslim

Where did the video come from?

Was Frank Gardner really Muslim?

It looks like one of the bystanders has a camera.

Gardner was stretched on the road, covered in blood from multiple bullet wounds in a slum area of southern Riyadh known as a hotbed of hardliners.

"Hotbed of hardliners?" Hardliners? Like Rumsfeld and Condi? Huh?

Speaks volumes of the Fifth Column's sympathies in this fight.

The BBC has long encouraged rabid anti-semitism, violent Marxism, and Islamic terrorism.

Well, BBC, you reap what you sow. Even looking at the pciture, I do not feel one ounce of pity for this gentleman.

Obviously he was made an object lesson because of his work. The fact that he was a Muslim and a fluent Arabic speaker made his assistance of the West more egregious in Arabic eyes.

No, no one in the Muslim world is our friend, and they all "bat on the same team," preparing the world for the Islamist Empire, the Caliphate. Gardner betrayed their agenda by showing the West what was happening in the "land of the three mosques," and showing Saudi Arabia in a bad light.

Does anybody think this madness will spread to Egypt in the coming months?

Just proves that is is not the americans that they just hate, it is the whole western world.

Sorry, we are in this fight toghter.

Man, it's great to see all those people rushing to help him. I'm sure there was no reason to plead and beg while his guts were falling out, for help and that he was a muslim. We all know how muslims value life, the life of anybody or anything, reguardless of religion or race.

...right.

They do not even care if you're a Muslim, just if you're from the West.

*SIGH* time to step out for lunch. . . .

There is this, though, in an al-Reuters story:

Bin Laden, responsible for the September 11, 2001, attacks on U.S. cities, and his followers have vowed to topple the Saudi government, which they loathe for allying itself with America.

No ambiguity here about Bin Laden being behind 9/11, no "alleged mastermind," or "whom the Bush administration regards," etc.

#6
Where did the video come from?

I'm sure a CNN crew, passing by, stopped to film him laying in the street.

Allah, the all merciful and compassionete ordered this Reporter be shot to remind him not to report anything negative about the ROP and its most Islamic adherants in Saudi Arabia.

P. S. Reminds me of an old joke in MAD magazine: a lot of diagrams made solely with dots. One of them had a solitary dot surrounded by some empty space, then outside that circle of emoty space was a whole cloud of more dots.

The caption: "A man dying on a New York City Street"

I disagree with anyone who does not feel pity for an unarmmed, shot, noncombatant. BBC or not, muslim, or not, the people who shot him are cowards.

Everyone, we must remember that this had taken place in an area of extremist Islamists. This map shows other areas where Islamic extremism is prevalent.

How's this for a bizarre screenshot:

wry grin for bleeding man.

#17 logger phd

I actually remember that one :-)

Geez, who's acting like the Nazis now? Separating the westerners/nonMuslims from the true believers. The Nazis did that. The Nazis killed anyone who stood in their way, just like these Muslim terrorists. The Nazis demanded the blood of their enemies to be spilled, just like these Muslim terrorists.

But it's Bush=Hitler.

Don't expect the BBC to figure this out. Ever.

Thom,

Egypt's military and security forces are probably more experienced in dealing with terrorists and fundamentalists than most of the other Arab regimes in the region. They've cracked down on them in the past - after the Luxor tourist incident a few years back, and before that the assassination of Sadat. The Egyptian government cracked down hard on the Muslim Brotherhood. The terrorists may try something there, but expect the Egyptians to whack the terrorists hard.

#19

LOL

"All your countries are belong to us!"

We all are, after all, Muslim (sic). It just takes time for Bin Laden & Co., Ltd., to kill enough of us to convince us of this fact (sic).

Shyguy #15

I'm sure a CNN crew, passing by, stopped to film him laying in the street.

What, and lose their precious al-Qaeda access? CNN covers this sort of thing up, they don't film it.

I feel pity for the man. To sit there in terror knowing you're dying and no one running to help. I wouldn't be human if I didn't feel pity. How I act upon it is in my control.

Saying you don't feel pity gives the LLL ammuntion because that is how they view us, as cold-hearted killers.

Was the man complicit in some evil action? I don't know and I never will. But to see a man sitting on the street crying for help to people who couldn't care less about someone who appears innocent just goes to show the differences between our cultures. Even in New York someone would lend a hand, all jokes aside.

"Help Me, I'm a Muslim"

So for all his "Islam is peace" stuff, he knew that the best (only?) way to get help from Arabs is to tell them you're a Muslim.

#8 fireman:

Gardner has a long history of taking potshots at the US and Israel in his ME reporting for the Beeb. Dollars to donuts, this incident will not change his worldview one iota.

Thank you for the hat tip Charles.

This photo just rips me apart. That poor man crying for help and everyone just standing there.

Religion of Body Pieces.

#22 lawhawk

That was my line of thought as well. The Saudis are fairly new to this I guess.

23
I agree the BBC is messed up.

However the guy on the ground, doing his job, does not deserve to be shot, unarmed.

#21 RWC

Ugh, I may be dating myself big-time.

c. 1985, I believe. . .

Okay, now I'm out to lunch!

Saudi Arabia is obviously a sick society. I hereby renounce any hope I had for the House of Saud. They must renounce their absolute power and remove the Wahhabist fanatics from their seats of religious power. If they're worried about terrorism as a result, it's already happening.

Time to stop using so much gasoline...

Thom

It's already in Egypt. It is simply being placated by US financial aid for the time being.

I really hope he pulls through. I'd be very interested in his viewpoint now.

Sarah D.

#27 Colt

LOL. And they still ignored him ...

Marble #26

Saying you don't feel pity gives the LLL ammuntion because that is how they view us, as cold-hearted killers.

I think many of us at LGF are past the point of caring what the LLL think. They will demonize those of us who disagree with them, regardless of whether we are civil or not.

Thom™

Does anybody think this madness will spread to Egypt in the coming months?

Yes. I'm kicking myself in the butt for not saving links, but in the news last week, there was a story about Egypt, religious police, and comparisons to S.A.

It's
Mohammed Python's Flying Circus

Oh, I'm a Muslim and I'm okay.
I sleep all night and I bleed all day.

Thon,

"Does anybody think this madness will spread to Egypt in the coming months?"

Yes. And it already has in the past:

1997 - 60 Tourist murdered

1997 - 10 Tourist burned alive

No Bush around then. How quickly it's all forgotten about.

" I have just signed a law outlawing the caliphate.
The bombing begins in five minutes."

RR

RIP

These are acts of desperation... the death throws of a defeated enemy.

For 20-30 years, Al Queda has gotten the vast majority of it's funding from the kingdom. With this financial support, they have waged the war of islam elsewhere.

Fundmental rule of life:
You don't sh*t where you eat.

I wonder what they are going to do when the buffet dries up.

grayp #29

That poor man crying for help and everyone just standing there.

From what I understand, this reporter was rabidly pro-terrorist, anti-semitic, and anti-American. He made heroes of Arab terrorists.

Why should you feel sorry for a man who was killed by his own heroes. I doubt he had an ounce of pity for the Jews that his hero blew up.

#34 AG in Houston

Ah! I was hoping you'd reply. Do you agree that the Egyptian government is effective at squelching these terrorists? I mean, would you be surprised if terrorist shootings like this one start breaking out in Cairo? And if something like that did happen, wouldn't the Egyptian government crush them?

Good book about Egypt: (maybe a little outdated, but relevant)

Mary Anne Weaver, "A Portrait of Egypt". I had just finished it, when 9/11 happened.

#39 Ploome: Was Gardner actually a Muslim? The article implies that Western journalists use their Koran copy as a trick.

Either way, if I were bleeding to death in a street, I'd use any trick I knew to get some help, quick.

It's a sad commentary on a sick Saudi Arabian society that this particular trick had to be used.

Does the BBC issue guidelines for journalists in "hot spots", along the lines of:

IV.A.1.b. If you are unfortunate enough to suffer multiple gunshot wounds in an area reputed to be held by alleged militants, you are advised to cry out "I am a Muslim" in a loud voice.

IV.A.1.c. If your windpipe is rendered unusable by such wounds, writing the same words on your BBC stationery will...

It would be interesting to see any such guidelines made public. Ditto for their in-house "style sheets."

Friendly Fire.

Co-incidentally, that cameras were readily handy to take photos of this attack. Don't you think?
Maybe Gardner had been judged and fatwaed, without his knowledge, in that he isn't muslim enough.
It had to be a horrific experience he had to acknowledge knowing he was terribly alone and bleeding to death.

As bigel is not here, may I suggest nuking Mecca and Medina and starting over? I know nobody listens to my suggestions, and I don't have the launch codes, so this is just hot air. But, it's hot air that makes me feel better.

They hate us so much for such primitive reasons that I'm beginning to get a bit upset. Hey, I know, a dose of their own medicine...

Saudis are the inbred progeny of flatworms and slugs. Their religion is paganism and they should all be killed at our first convenience. Lying to a Saudi is fine so long as you advance the cause of killing all of them. Stealing their oil a holy quest as our cause is divine.

Thanks. Now I actually do feel better.

#33 Gordon

I hereby renounce any hope I had for the House of Saud.

If they sponsor Hamas, fine, stay. But if they can't protect the BBC...

Sorry to harp about Egypt, here's a review for Weaver's book:

In "A Portrait of Egypt," Mary Anne Weaver has a jolting message for everyone who is hoping for peace in the Middle East: Be afraid, be very afraid. Weaver, a staff writer for the New Yorker, makes a clear and convincing case that the inhabitants of the most populous and influential Arab nation will soon topple President Hosni Mubarak's military dictatorship and install an Islamist regime in its place, with a domino-effect potential for the entire Arab world.

Link

What a pathetic and wretched place the KSA is. This is a society that controls every aspect of people's personal lives yet can't seem to figure out where these "militants" are coming from. They know when their women are out of line but don't know where their own citizens are obtaining Kalashnikovs. Pathetic.

Have Israeli scientists invented a synthetic substitute for fuel yet?

OT:

Way off topic, but apropos of the late President Reagan, here's a link that shows it wasn't that long ago that our respective countries had more in common than in contrast:

Former PM Mulroney to be pallbearer at Reagan funeral

#10 Thom™

...I think thats one of the things that worries Egypt about Israels withdrawal from Gaza ... once Israel withdraws the wolves will have to feed somewhere...

#35 -- "I really hope he pulls through. I'd be very interested in his viewpoint now."

His point of view will be that it is Bush's fault.

As for the refusal of other Muslims to come to his aid, could it be possible that they might be afraid that they could be next if caught rendering assistance?

Yesterday afternoon I went to the annual San Francisco event called Israel in the Ballpark, celebrating the founding of Israel. It was beautiful. Thousands of people, including hundrends of children gathered to sit on the grass at SBC Park (formerlt Pac Bell Park), toss frisbees which were given away by one organization or another, listen to music, watch performers, etc. A handful of idiot terrorist supporters who gathered outside aside, it was simply the happiest and friendliest public event that I had ever attended.

Here is how it relates to this story. There were scores of booths. Organizations such as AIPAC and Zaka and many others, theatre groups, magazines, newspapers, dozens of people selling everything from jewelry to CDs to shirts (I got a Jews for Jeter t-shirt) to, well, practically everything. Many, many booths were giving stuff away (frisbees, caps, tickets to one thing or another, candy, etc.). Yet, there was one booth where nothing was being given away and the line there was longer than at any other. For the entire six hours of the event, there was a long line. What was it? An organization seeking bone marrow donor matches for three critically ill people. Two children and one man who looked to be in his forties. Signing up was a pain in the neck. There was a long form. Then you had to stand in a long line. Then you had to read a booklet that explained that, if you were a match, you were signing up for something VERY painful and difficult. They asked you, repeatedly, if you were sure that you wanted to sign up. If you understood what it was that you were signing up for. And yet, I did not see one single person turn away.

That man, had he been injured in that Stadium yesterday, could have said "I'm Muslim," or "I'm Martian," or nothing at all and people would have rushed to his aid. He would have been helped on just about any street in Israel or America. When a Palestinian was injured by a suicide bomber recently, he was airlifted by Israel to an Israeli hospital where Israeli doctors saved his life. No one asked him to explain why they should help him.

Oh, I'm wrong. They were giving something away after you finished signing up and giving the necessary cell samples. There were these stickers that you put on your shirt that said "I helped save a life today." The stadium was simply filled with them.

#6
The picture is from Al Arabeyya TV. The name is shown in the upper left corner of the picture. I'm assuming its video.

I wonder what parts of the story will be left out of the mainstream media. Will they mention his pleading, his carrying the Koran ("device") and shouting he is Muslim? Will they show how all the bystanders are standing around, many with arms calmly at sides, doing nothing? Will they even show these pictures? Will they turn camera on themselves, revealing themselves as part of the do-nothing bystanders? Will they show any pictures of those committing the crime?

Hold on, let me finish my donut and i'll start feeling bad for that POS. He got what he deserved and reminds me of a wounded cockroach that is lying half-smashed.

To all those who noted the lack of help:

While I'm sure that many people weren't helping for fear of their own lives, and many were also not helping because they are just heartless fools, I heard, I can't confirm, but I heard, that there is a law in Saudi Arabia prohibiting people from giving aid before a paramedic gets to the scene.

One more glorious point to the Magic Kingdom.

Either way, they are are a government of fools.

-ron

From what I understand, this reporter was rabidly pro-terrorist, anti-semitic, and anti-American. He made heroes of Arab terrorists.

If so, sweet.

To steal a line form Tony Soprano, "Revenge is like cold cuts."

Sympathy meter's busted, AGAIN.

OT

Is this Ted Rall site legit?

Ted Rall on Reagan

Thanks for all the replies on Egypt. I don't want to clog up the thread with individual replies though. There's a chance I may have to go over there and I'm trying to develop a better sense of the security situation.

---

Watching the Reagan services on Fox, and I can't stop tearing up.

#39 ploome

why have any sympathy for this individual?

Because he was staring his own murder in the face and he was terribly, terribly alone.

It's not complicated.

Although the point alot of posters are making, that Gardner knew to identify himself as a Muslim, is an interesting one. All Muslims I know, including American converts think they are superior. And all Saudi Muslims think they are superior to all non-Saudi Muslims. And all non-Saudi Muslims despise the Saudis.

I used to work with an American convert about to become engaged to a Saudi man. The other women Muslims were torn between envy 'cuz she 'got' a Saudi and the hate it ingendered. Very wierd stuff.

trigger girlie #61

Hold on, let me finish my donut and i'll start feeling bad for that POS. He got what he deserved and reminds me of a wounded cockroach that is lying half-smashed.

I'd have more sympathy for the cockroach. At least it never encouraged terrorism, repression and mass murder.

I wonder if the BBC will get around to discussing the difference b/t this treatment of their reporter and British noncombatants detained at Gitmo.

/optimism

Whatever his politics, I still feel compassion for this man. It's unconscionable that no one would help him.

It's easy to love and help those that you agree with, but it takes a special person to help someone that is on the "other side." That's another reason why I respect the Israelis so much. They still try to help the Palestinian people even though it is a thankless job. Remember Israel's offer to help the people of Bam, Iran after the earthquake? They were flatly rejected.

In a just war, non-combatants are to be protected as much as possible, they are NOT to be targeted. This only illustrates once more that the Jihadis are not waging a just war, and not within the confines of the Law of Armed Conflict (which doesn't apply to them as it is our militaries codification of the Geneva conventions). BUT, they cannot claim protection under the Geneva conventions, either.

I will not argue for or against whether he "had it coming" Like Daniel Pearl and Nick Berg, "had it coming is beside the point.

Mcgyver, out

#56 Cam

I'm not too surprised. Mulroney and Reagan had a close rapport that lasted beyond their respective terms in office. (Rember their shamelessly shmaltzy rendition of "When Irish Eyes are Smiling?")

On the subject of Reagan, Andrew Sullivan has an eloquent piece in Time Magazine this week.

What gets me is this:

The BBC’s head of news Richard Sambrook said the crew were in the Suweidi district, filming the house of an al Qaeda militant who police killed last year, when the gunmen attacked.

So the BBC are doing a story which we all know is going to be sympathetic to Al Qaeda and somehow blame killings by Al Qaeda "activists" on Israel, when all of a sudden...

"Help me I'm a Muslim" is a good headline because it belies some theories that the West is responsible for being the target of terror. I'm sure this man screamed many other things as he lay in the street. Don't blame him for trying to get help any way he could. If I was in his place, I'd say I was a Muslim right after a simple "Help" proved ineffective. "Help me I'm a Muslim" is informative because it didn't work. The Saudi people were afraid to help. Another day in the war on terror--another day of shame for the Saudis.

Savor the irony. No Saudi police around to help this man, but whenever there's a beheading the police scour the markets and round up bystanders to observe the spectacle...and if you happen to be a foreigner, enjoy the show 'cause you ain't getting out of it.

#71 scaramouche:

LOL. The famed "Shamrock Summit". I believe that they refer to it in the article.

OT

Services for President Reagan on C-SPAN, 3pm ET.

Help me, I’m a Muslim!

Translation: "Don't help me because I'm a human being, but because I'm a Muslim. Just like you, I am committed to conquering, humiliating, and exterminating infidels. Can't you see - my journalistic slanders against infidel civilization will only make it easier to wipe them out!"

With his life draining away, a Western Muslim reveals a vital truth about the foundation of his demonic faith.

#62 bally

that there is a law in Saudi Arabia prohibiting people from giving aid before a paramedic gets to the scene.

Ya know, now that you mention it, I think I read the same thing, perhaps right after the most recent Khobar attack. However, that doesn't preclude someone simply holding the man's hand and giving him comfort.

I wonder why Tony is never this clear when Israeli civilians are murdered?

"This is a struggle against these terrorists who will kill innocent people who are involved in our democracy," Mr Blair told the BBC.

It's only a flesh wound.
Well multiple flesh wounds.

Ok multiple flesh wounds with bits of lead in them...

#59 Jheka

Thanks for that. Just another example of the vast ravine between the two cultures.

how about... help me because im a human being..
oh nevermind you arent a human being unless you are a muslim.

Maybe if he had yelled "help, I hate Jews too ... " he would have gotten quicker assistance.

Googling around for some info over on the airline threat page-Did you know that there is a Saudia Airlines flight that departs from JFK, in a 747-400, carrying enough fuel for a 13 hour non-stop flight to Jeddah?

I was just thinking, if a 767 loaded up for a 5 hour flight from BOS to LAX carried some serious jet fuel, imagine what a larger 747 loaded up for a 13 hour flight could do crashing into midtown Manhattan.

#83 SoCalJustice

Actually, you know, I really think that might have worked. All kidding aside.

-ron

#64 Mary

I have been trying to get on that site all day but still no luck. I would say that the info that you gave so far that it is his site.

#51 ploome hineni

"I wonder how many more reporters are moslim converts, and we have no idea "

An interesting thought. I bet conversion is seen as a ticket/safe pass. Retired Middle East diplomats are on the Saudi payroll and many have probably gone native. The same TH Lawrence sickness probably as affected the press corps.

Of course one is appalled at the suffering and demonstration of inhumanity by the bystanders, but it's hard to have empathy for a Western convert who whines about his affiliation to the cult of death.

"help me, i'm a muslim!"

that should be the new adhan. hey - they've changed the qibla before

"Help me! I'm a muslim!"

Yeah. A muslim. Just like those Sufi's in Darfur. They're muslim too! But they are getting slaughtered in their thousands every week, by other muslims!!! Guess it doesn't matter to the Saudi-sponsored Wahhabists though.

Do we have an early candidate for the Fiskie?

Frank Gardner is going to have to ask himself, "Why do they hate me?" Once he gets off life support, that is.

My reason for not being sympathetic to Gardner; If that had a wounded anybody else laying in the street, Frank Gardner would have:

-Rushed to his or her aid.
-Kept filming, he's just an observer.

I'm positive he would have gone with #2.

Poor guy. :(

#65 Thom

#76 Ms. Andi

Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.

R.I.P. Gipper. :-(

'Help me, I am Muslim'

How racist a statement! Does this bloke Gardner implies, without any subtlety, that the good harmless Saudis would not help him if he were a kufr?

What about the RoP thingy?

“I’m a Muslim, help me, I’m a Muslim, help me,” the British father of two daughters cried in Arabic, the officer said.

Claiming to be a Muslim probably saved Gardner's life. I mean, after all, the bystanders didn't douse him with gasoline and set him on fire like they did to those contractors in Fallujah.

From a BBC forum with Frank Gardner following the Bali nightclub bombing:

The whole world - at least every government in the world - says it is against terrorism - the problem is in the interpretation of the word terror. The United States has laid down what it believes is terrorism. But for the vast majority of Muslims and Arabs they would consider, for example, the Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, to be a proponent of state terrorism. And on the other hand, the Israelis and many of their supporters in the United States would consider that various Palestinian groups are terrorists.

So there's a big disagreement over the definition of terrorism. I don't think the world is ever going to be united over this. Only when the problems in the Middle East are eventually solved, will we see some kind of unanimity over what constitutes a terrorist.

I wonder if he considers his gunman a terrorist or if he'll wait until there is more "unanimity" on the subject.

Question: if he was in Rome, or the Vatican, or Jerusalem in the Jewish section, or in downtown Pittsburgh, and was shouting "help me, I'm a muslim!!!"
Would he get help?

Answer: yes.

#91 andthenblammo!

I am with you on this one. If he was an actual civilian who was nuetral in this fight I might feel more compassion for him. But I don't doubt that if he got advance notice of an attack that he wouldn't be there with camera in hand to report on the 'militants.'

So if Tariq Aziz was in the street, could he shout, "help me I'm an Arab?"

Well I don't know what to think.

From all accounts, Gardner was a veteran and knew the lay of the land. He was no hick, naive reporter suddenly finding himself in wayyy over his head.

Going into a place like that just to film a friggin' house? And damn near paying for it with his life?

What story would be worth that kind of risk? What angle did he have? Wonder if he will speak up should he live through it.

If I were a baby shark, I would feel much safer swimming with the big sharks.

I guess being a muslim nowadays doesn't carry the cache' it once did

“I’m a Muslim, help me, I’m a Muslim, help me,” the British father of two daughters cried in Arabic, the officer said.

meh. I'd walk past anyone shouting this, too.

Terminally evil scum, Jihadist offspring of the evil moon god.

EVIL DEMONIC

Getting shot must suck. I suppose I feel some level of sympathy.

On another note, this guy seems like he is/was a major league douschebag.

C'est la vie

" Help me, I'm a Muslim and I can't get up."

Note the BBC's article, Manhunt after attack on BBC crew, omits any reference to Gardner's "Help me I'm Muslim" cries.

"Help me - I'm a Jew!"

Well, I guess I should have known that wasn't going to work.

"Help me - I'm a Christian!"

No luck with that one either.

"Help me - I'm a Muslim!"

Why isn't anybody helping me? And why is that asshole taking my picture?

Shit happens, Frank.

Happened to around 3000 here one September.

Happened to around 90 so far, in Afghanistan.

Happened to around 600 plus so far, in Iraq.

Oh did I tell you that, that shit happened, by the people you give voice to?

Tough shit for him.
You play with snakes , you get bit.

I feel sorry for UK Ambassador Cowper-Coles. He recently was pushed into his lousy position in Saudi Arabia after a serving so well in Israel. He loved his stint in Israel, even through hard times. He learned enough Hebrew to be guest-of-honor on Yatzpan's popular TV talk show. He was funny and warm and played along with Yatzpan's jokes and terrific impersonations. His family also enjoyed their stay here. I suppose they went back to the UK. They wouldn't be able to survive in Riyadh.

I assume that the Blair government thought Cowper-Coles was getting along too well, getting too chummy, in Israel, so they threw him to the Saudi dogs. Poor guy.

Al Quida has been responsible for terrorist attacks for a long time now, and the Saudi gov. couldn't do anything about it. Now that the magic kingdom is under attack it's a different story. "On June 4, Saudi mufti Sheik Abdul Aziz Al Sheik called muslims to cooperate w/ authorities in the war against Al Quida." They are offering rewards and calling on religious leaders to denounce the terrorists. (at least they aren't supposed to kill muslims). link

#107 sefton 6/7/2004 11:38AM PST

" Help me, I'm a Muslim and I can't get up."

Dammit sefton, you beat me to it. I guess that just the fucking way it is.

#71

Thanks for the link.

That's a wonderful tribute and probably the only article I've read that hasn't made me cry. (Then again, maybe they're all dried up...)

#54 zorkmidden . . .

Fortunately Egypt is very vulnerable to attack. Don't even need nuclear weapons. Building the Aswan Dam was the stupidest thing they ever did.

#20

The grinning man in the picture referred to in post #20 is (was) Simon Cumbers, the cameraman who was killed.

#112 ashan

so they threw him to the Saudi dogs.

I should warn you it's quite dangerous to insult dogs on this site.

Fireman, and any others who claim that this man was pro-terrorist, can you site sources for me, please?

Thanks.

help me, I’m a Muslim

Shades of things to come? How many westerners will convert once the real trouble starts in Europe? All the spineless lefties, I suppose.

OT

My friend who went to a convention in Bahrain last week is back. She said under NO circustances would she ever go back. She said her boss could fire her first.
What she did learn personally is the saudis are wholesomely hated by other arabs. She heard repeatedly that sauds are the cause for the biggest majority of terrorism world wide.
Of course Bahrain is just a few hours drive from Khobars via causeway. Everyone was pretty upset by the attack.
She was personally affronted by some of the native women when she went down to the souk, by one of them grabbing her by the hair nearly pulling strands out.
We won't talk about her experiences with the scent of the great unwashed.

#108 Pax Americana:

The Beeb left out the "Help, I'm a Muslim" part, because that would cause the reader to wonder how many other reporters with Western-sounding names also were Muslims; wouldn't want to encourage bad thoughts in the readership. The Beeb also left out the part that shows why the guide didn't get shot, and also that Gardner lay on the pavement while bystanders gawked at him, a detail I suspect would not have been surpressed if the shooting occurred in, say, New York City.

The Beeb cleaned the thing up so much that it almost reads like a mugging story.

This is an interesting piece of symbolic warfare by al-Qaeda. In essence, they are sayng that it doesn't matter if one converts to Islam; if one isn't born as the "right" sort of Arab, one is slated for extermination.

It seems to me that al-Qaeda may claim that it fights for "Islam", but this is the "Islam" of a race war by Arabs against non-Arabs. This also explains why the "Islamic world" (a.k.a. the "Ummah") is so silent on the genocide against non-Arab Muslims in Sudan's Darfur province.

Combine that with the symbolic message of 9-11, that surrender to terrorists is never enough for al-Qaeda, that they demand DEATH DEATH DEATH for each and every one of us who isn't born as an Osama-lookalike. The message isn't pretty.

#119 lazytart

Try here. ;)

#86

Now I can't get on it. It was a nasty rant concluding with something like I'm sure he's turning crispy about now.

What an ass. You can disagree but to do so in such a childish manner is pathetic (but just about what I'd expect from the eternally mature and thoughtful Ted Rall).

Someone will have copies somewhere...(A Small Victory perhaps - she had Tilmann cartoon long after it was removed).

they demand DEATH DEATH DEATH for each and every one of us who isn't born as an Osama-lookalike. The message isn't pretty.

Indeed.

OT sort of. I was relaxing at our cottage this weekend and the TV was on and I wasn't paying it much attention until I heard:

"Convert or Die!"

Naturally, my head snapped up and my incredulous ears heard what they thought was an Islamist screed.

I happened so fast and I was so stunned that I didn't catch what exactly what this was about except to say that it had something to do with a new movie coming out. I think. Or maybe it's about a new XBox game. Anyway, it involved someone called Riddick (?).

Anybody else catch this or am I losing my mind?

#121 quark2

What she did learn personally is the saudis are wholesomely hated by other arabs.

lemme guess. Arrogant, lazy, dumber than a box o' rocks

The other one I've heard consistently is liars.

And this is from Arab Muslims!

Something radically WRONG with this. "Help Me Im a Muslim?" Are you kidding? Help ME..Im shot and possibly F**n DYING. THATS the norm not this DIS>>>CUST>>>ING... attitude in this discusting racist Bigoted spoiled brat of a Country. E...GAD.

Is it me? What kind of people ARE they? Well we really know, dont we.

And this attitude goes on THRUOUT the ME.

Oh well! By now I am really smitrking... Maybe the guy will realize that Islam is CULT OF DEATH!

"Help me, I'm Muslim!"

I guess the sub-text here is that Muslims are under no obligation to come to the aid of injured/wounded kufrs. Well, they might stop to steal the victims' wallets.

# 63...

What sympathy meter? (Big smile!)

#129

"THATS the norm not this DIS>>>CUST>>>ING... attitude in this discusting racist Bigoted spoiled brat of a Country. E...GAD."

It's a MUSLIM thang, not a Saudi thang!

Thom™ (#1):

The Saudis are our friends. It's important not to forget that.

Well, since BBC is (on the side of) our enemy, and Saudis now target BBC, doesn't it make Saudis the enemies of our enemy and thus our friends?...

Naaah.

# 121...

Yes the stink is overpowering in muslim land...

Their purity doesn't include washing...

"Abdul, what's that guy in the street doing? I think he's hurt!"
"Oh, that's just some infidel pretending to be a Muslim, Mahmoud. Looks like one of the brothers shot him."
"Help me, I'm a Muslim! Help me..."
"Ha ha. Look at him bleed. His Arabic isn't too bad, though."
"Yes, yes, come on—I want to get some falafel before afternoon call to prayer."
"He's probably a Zionist anyway—they're responsible for all the terror in this world, even when it happens to them."

Miss Trixie,

The movie is called, "The Chronicles of Riddick" starring Vin Diesel.

Googling. Frank Gardner was available for public speaking engagements. His booking agents have a bio/puff about him online at Performing Artistes">Artistes of the Month. Text:

FRANK GARDNER is the BBC'S SECURITY CORRESPONDENT
- the only network TV journalist in Britain to be covering the War on Terror full-time around the world.

- Broadcasts almost daily to audiences of millions about Al-Qaeda, Terrorism, Security and the threat of Bio-weapons for BBC1 TV and BBC Radio 4.

- A fluent Arabic-speaker with a degree in Arabic & Islamic Studies, 41-year old Frank Gardner has reported for the BBC from all over the Middle East and more than 20 countries worldwide.

Above all, he has a proven ability to explain clearly to an audience the nature of Al-Qaeda and the threat it now poses, together with insights and anecdotes rarely heard 'on air'.

The only TV journalist in Britain covering the WOT full-time? This thing was written in February 2003. Geez. It's not like it was, you know, a "war" or something...

Mr Speaker

I nominate this unfortunate fellow as a candidate for the 2004 Darwin Awards.

Not only did he go well out of his way to commit suicide by Islamic "militant"proxy, leaving his home and country. He even converted to the mongrel cult thinking this would somehow deflect bullets and cause his skin tone to be overlooked.

If he procreated, and dropped demon spawn, behind the sandy curtain, they will be condemned to a simular fate, so he has managed a retroactive erasure of his gene signature from the pool.

Maybe he should get his own special category. The "two birds with one stone" award.

No, no, you've all got it wrong!! Of course all those bystanders helped their fellow Muslim. As soon as they realized he was a Muslim, they stood back for fear that any material assistance might prevent his bleeding out and getting his turn at the virgins!! Now stop slandering the religion of peace, and get back to practicing your bowing and scraping for when you become dhimmis.

#110 Don't

Oh did I tell you that, that shit happened, by the people you give voice to?

Yes, I'll second that. Though something in the back of my mind tell me that not really caring is wrong, I find it difficult to feel much sympathy, remembering the many, many BBC reportages that left me simmering with anger.

Miss Trixie (#127):

That should answer your question.

iagofest - thanks.

Is it new? Have you seen it? What's the story?

Maybe he should have yelled "I'm a Wahhabi"?

After all, those damn Shia are infidels, too. Ask their inbred royal family.

Quark2..It isnt off topic. Its worrysome to learn that America and the West have NOT worked on, developed, played with the DIFFERENCES, the vast differences the Arab World and the wider Islamic World have with EACH OTHER.

Lots of Moslems dont like this one, or that one. The Saudis being probably the least liked, cause they are ultra rich MEAN dangeous sexually repressed so "bent" spoiled brats. But then the Egyptians dont like the Saudis AND the Jordanians..and the Syrians dont like the Jordianians and the Lebonese..and so on.

ALL those Arabs consider themselves SUPERIOR..(and I mean Nazi like Superior) to Iranians..and ANYONE who isnt Arab. Course all those Moslems that are in Asia..They are as nothing to the Arab World..just bodies to do with what THEY want..and they DO..whatever with those poor people. Can you say Slavery? and Murder? and all SORTS of mayhem and no one cares or does anything about it. These are just CHARMING PEOPLE.

Its ODD, very odd that our Govnt has not been in there working on exploiting these DIFFERENCES. Why would that be do you suppose?

As for Arab Women going after Western Women..Ive heard that..Ive also heard there was "putting on of hands" in Jerusalem by Arab MEN..on Western Women. Id be interested if it is still happening and Israel is trying NOT to talk about it ..so as to NOT start up..so as NOT to be accused of "stereotyping Arab MEN".

If this man had been crying for help anywhere in the West, he would have gotten it without having to justify asking for it by saying that he's a Muslim or anything else.

Sure says something about the difference between our two cultures, doesn't it?

And the world still doesn't get it. ... Depressing.

#134 Miss Trixie

Is it new?
Yes, I don't think it's out yet. But I believe Dame Judi Dench is in it.

Hi, zorkmidden!

Let me know if you want to see more photos --plenty more where they came from.

Gordon . . . are you coming to the Dark Side now???

Miss Trixie,

I think it's coming out next month, so I've only seen the trailers. I gathered that the story is about some evil dude conquering planets with his armies. There seemed to be some religious undertones e.g. "convert now, or fall forever" or whatever, but I'm not clear on that. Riddick (Vin Diesel) is the hero and I think this is the sequel to Pitch Black, another movie I have not seen. Does anyone here know if it's based on a series of novels?

Lock up your liquor, Sharia's coming to town...

Fallujah, about 35 miles west of Baghdad in an area known as the Sunni Triangle, has been a center of anti-occupation rebellion among Sunni Muslims for more than a year. It is a city renowned for smugglers and for supplying recruits for Hussein's army and security services. It is also known for piety; residents call Fallujah "the city of 100 mosques," several of which were used as redoubts for fighters firing on Marines.

Since the truce, Islam has emerged openly as a potent force, according to Brown and Iraqis familiar with the city. Islamic law, or sharia, is beginning to take root, to the point where clandestine vendors of alcohol have been flogged and paraded naked on the street; beauty salons have been shut down and barbers told to eschew Western cuts and not shave off beards. Among strict Muslims, beards are a requirement.

Foreigners have frequently been kidnapped by gangs of masked gunmen, who have released their captives only in response to requests by religious leaders. (or brutally beheaded them! - ed. comment)

I see this as a positive development. Fallujah's residents will either learn to live with the Islamists or learn to loathe them, most likely the latter.

Fallujah residents who supported the creation of the U.S.-backed Fallujah Brigade said the city was unsettled but not out of control. Jasim Saleh, one of the brigade's commanders, said "it is a mystery" who was kidnapping foreigners and that he opposed imposition of Islamic law in the city. Insurgents who came to Fallujah from elsewhere are being pressured by local leaders to leave, he said, adding that the killers of the American contractors have probably already fled the city. In any case, he said, "Everyone in Fallujah condemns the mutilation."(except for the hundreds who showed up to play hacky sack with the remains of those Blackwater contractors - ed. comment)

Boarder: You bet..is IS a Muslim THANG. Ya know people, its fun to call names and some of the nasty names FIT..but you dont even have to do that..

All you have to do is look at and record their BEHAVIOR...ALL over the world.

This incident..and letting the guy just sit there cause he doent look like a Muslim..ie only helping Muslims..

BLOWING UP...1000 year old works of art. (Im NEVER getting ovet this people)

Treatment of Females ALL over..for Religious and Cultural reasons.

Treatment of THEIR OWN people..Some are MORE Islamic than others and should be treated that way

CUTTING OFF the Heads of Innocent People..HELLOOO...That sort of finally DID IT for me.

And LEON KLINGHOEFFER

And the CIA Agent tortured to death..a while back

AND American troops murdered

AND Americans dragged thru the streets after being murdered...

I give up...thats what comes to mind right now. Theres more..Lots more.

#79

I wonder why Tony is never this clear when Israeli civilians are murdered?

He is. He says nothing!

" Nobody knew Saudi Arabia or knew the sort of risks they were undertaking better than Frank " - Richard Sambrook BBC director of news

Thus the " Help me , I'm muslim."

Leah, when I was younger I was accosted by Arab men a few times. One of them even did a kind of half-whistle, half-hiss to get my attention. I wanted to shout in his face, "What would you do if some man did that to your sister?" but I didn't want to get into any kind of conversation with him. So I just gave him a dirty look and walked away, wondering whether he honestly thought he was going to get anywhere with any woman tourist that way. Either he was stupid, or there are some really dumb American women tourists out there. Scary.

But why did the woman in the souk pull the woman tourist's hair? I'd have thought she'd be glad a tourist was spending much-needed cash in her country ... unless she's so insecure about her man that even the presence of a Western woman can throw her into jealous fits.

Well, she's welcome to her man's attentions as far as I am concerned. I wouldn't date an Arab man if he were the last one on earth. Way, way too dangerous.

I guess this is why they've never allowed a church in Saudi. Wouldn't want the population to start hearing sermons about the Good Samaritan...

OT

There's been much speculation as to whether or not President Reagan's passing will hurt or harm Bush's re-election chances.

It seems to me that Reagan's death will only serve as a reminder of the sharp contrast between the classless Left and the Right. Reagan was so civil and polite, even toward those whom he disagreed with. ... Now look at the hateful bile spewing from the Left. It is personal and intense: in fact, RR himself has long been the butt of some horrid leftie "jokes" (as if one can "joke" about an Alzheimer's patient) about his being incontinent. As different as night and day, eh?

Memories of President Reagan will underscore these differences and can only help GWB IMO.

Sickening. It looks like his legs were cut off...

#64 Mary & #86 Right Wing Conspirator:

From a query of the whois database:

Administrative Contact:
Rall, Ted (TR516) rall@VINEYARD.NET
Ted Rall Group
114 MORNINGSIDE DR STE 63
NEW YORK, NY 10027-6017
US
(212) 932-3407 fax: 999 999 9999

Yeah, its his disgustingness.

#86 RWC

Just got onto Rall --

June 6, 2004

How Sad...

that Ronald Reagan didn't die in prison, where he belonged for starting an illegal, laughably unjustifiable war against Grenada under false pretenses (the "besieged" medical students later said they were nothing of the sort) and funneling arms to hostages during Iran-Contra.

Oh, and 9/11? That was his. Osama bin Laden and his fellow Afghan "freedom fighters" got their funding, and nasty weapons, from Reagan.

A real piece of work, Reagan ruined the federal budget, trashed education, alienated our friends and allies and made us a laughing stock around the world.

Hmmm...sounds familiar.

Anyway, I'm sure he's turning crispy brown right about now.

He begins the blog today with snippets from all the hate mail he received onthe above.

iagofest (#149):

Riddick (Vin Diesel) is the hero and I think this is the sequel to Pitch Black, another movie I have not seen.

Pitch Black was unexceptional, but watchable. With that new one, though, the signs aren't good. Even Thandie Newton's presence, I'm afraid, won't save the thing (as long as she keeps all her clothes on, at least...)

I just blogged about Rall and Palast ... This is, predicatbly and sadly, their element.

#154

"wondering whether he honestly thought he was going to get anywhere with any woman tourist that way. Either he was stupid, or there are some really dumb American women tourists out there. Scary."

Well I've heard many similar stories from American females who worked stints in the ME -- these women were ogled, pinched, etc. Their take on the phenomenon is that MEern men are just crude, classless pigs. It's possible that they think that they have a "license" to treat Western women with disrespect since we live in an open society, unlike theirs where the poor women are covered up except for their faces.

In short, I don't believe this is a reflection of the intelligence of "American women tourists" at all but rather the crassness of the Arab male. Too bad no Western men were around to punch these Arabs in the nose --- but then again, if a real man was present the sleaebags wouldn't dare bother the women in the first place.

#161 Jheka,

It's becoming obvious that Rall is the American Latuff. What a loathesome hateful little man.

Jeffrey Goldberg in the New Yorker: Among the Settlers

Not sure if it has been posted already. . . . I have read part of it. Very insightful and (to me) informative, since I know little of all the settler issues.

Sharon seems to have recognized—belatedly—Israel’s stark demographic future: the number of Jews and Arabs between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea will be roughly equal by the end of the decade. By 2020, the Israeli demographer Sergio Della Pergola has predicted, Jews will make up less than forty-seven per cent of the population. If a self-sustaining Palestinian state—one that is territorially contiguous within the West Bank—does not emerge, the Jews of Israel will be faced with two choices: a binational state with an Arab majority, which would be the end of the idea of Zionism, or an apartheid state, in which the Arab majority would be ruled by a Jewish minority.

. . . and a dissenting view of the above.

This will take a while for me to take in. Perhaps someone here already has a take?

#162

Border Watcher, I hope you're right. Some young women can be incredibly naive, though.

@128 grayp

The opinion of sauds has been low for a very long time in the ME. When I was in Bahrain back in '82 they were not popular. Caused lots of problems when they would come over to party on the island, the natives like their money and nothing else about them.

I wonder how secure Bahrain will be now with that causeway connecting them to the saudi mainland, if and when the royal house collapses.

Shira: There is a truth here that the Western Govnts DONT want to talk about. They need Oil and therefore..[so what ..and hopefully it doesnt get out of hand] is their take on this situation now.

The TRUTH is...that the Arab World...at least..Dispises the West and thinks of Western Men and Women as NOTHING..but life forces to do with what they please. (they think of others that way as well..as I said before)

The amount of bigotry surpasses what we usually encounter. The amount and the intensitity of this hatred of others is something we can conceive of in this day and age... Our repective Western Govnts arent warning us so we can DECIDE what we may have to do about this in the future. There is a BILLION or more of these people ...alot of them walkin around with this HATRED embedded in them. Thats alot of Hate.

In the future this will be DANGEROUS to the Western Countries and their Citizens. WE are going to HAVE to own up to the bigtory of that world and the ramifications to US from that bigotry...and DO Something about this DANGER.

Vote DEM or REPUB doesnt matter much at all in the long run...cant you SEE you havent been "in charge" and will NOT be "in charge" unless..to take charge of this. Get rid of those Arabist and Arabist types..or else...SHHHEESHHH

Ask youself..each party member ...what are we doing developing a Palistinian State when MOST Americans did NOT want or approve of..a Palistinian State?

#64 Mary
#86 RWC

I am getting a 404 Error when I tried to access Rall's disgusting blog to copy and paste his diatribe against Reagan. I read his rant on Reagan which ended with Rall hoping that Reagan went to Hell. He also posted a lot of comments from "right-wingers" who likened Rall to shit on the sidewalk that is to be avoided. Hopefully, his server is taking such a pounding that it will stay down so that we are spared his vomitous "writing". Or perhaps his ISP took him down for being an asshat? Either way we are spared having to read his garbage.

#162 Border Watcher

but rather the crassness of the Arab male.

That's so odd. I went to college with lots of men from the Arab world - Kuwait, Iran, Libya, etc., and they were always perfect gentlemen. As a matter of fact, the guys from Libya are to this day some of the nicest people I've ever met.

Hitchens also gets into the feeding frenzy.

"Help me, I'm an asshole."

I guess saying "Help me! I've bee shot!" doesn't work in Saudi Arabia.

@154 shira

What she was told after being accosted, was because she has red hair, very tall and very very fair.
The woman who pulled her hair was another customer in the store my friend was shopping in.
Strangely when I was over, I had no problems. Other than being ogled by ME men no one made any advances towards me. And, I wore my Texican clothes. :)
I guess the landscape of politics has changed a good deal of many things since I was over.
I don't think I'll ever have any desire to go back either. Plus her hotel room faced a mosque. *LOL

#171 Jheka

I read Hitch earlier - I knew he was a nasty SOB, but not sure I expected this. Wonder what Andrew Sullivan's thoughts are on his buddy's words...

After the killings of the pregnant mother and four daughters in Israel, the lynching and burning of American contractors in Iraq, and the playing-with-body parts episode of Israeli soldiers, the only taboos remaining for Islamists are these two:

1. Crucifixion
2. Cannibalism

I seriously fear that we will see one or both of these taboos broken before the year ends. Beheading is losing its shock value.

#176
You mean that the Saudi's don't crucify people? Wrong, they most certainly do!

Israelis are sitting there wondering just what it would take to UPSET Westerners..Arab barbaric behavior and all that. Seems nothin Islamists do is TOO much. Theres no WAIT A MINUTE HERE..THATS IT...kind of reaction. Theres barely a HO HUM.

Really..something ODD is going on in the World if people are hardly noticing and not punishing this horendous behavior.

What IS going on? that people are dismissing these daily incidents from EVERYwhere ..that is the big question.

#176 Partizaner

Re: crucifixion

One of the Britons who was arrested in SA, imprisoned and tortured, for supposedly trafficking alcohol, was sentenced to partial beheading and crucifixion. He got a pardon, but I wonder if he was sentenced to crucifixion because he's a westerner.

#177 odin

Way ahead of me :-)

I am trying sooo hard not to feel a shiver of Schadenfreude about this. It is certainly, hmm, interesting that Gardner believed his chances of rescue would improve if he screamed out that he was a Muslim. Let's not hold our breath waiting for any Beeb analysis of that phenomenon.

OT:

#160 Q:

With that new one, though, the signs aren't good. Even Thandie Newton's presence, I'm afraid, won't save the thing (as long as she keeps all her clothes on, at least...)

I hadn't paid much attention to the flick, until I saw a "coming attractions" which made it clear that it's about the need for forceful resistance to some sort of cultish empire, one that demands "convert or die". Sound like anyone we know? Perhaps this flick capture this age's Zeitgeist pretty well after all.

Agree on Thandie Newton, btw. Rent "Il Assedio"/"Besieged" if you haven't already; good Bertolucci movie, and Thandie is just lovely.

(Double word score for me--two highfalutin' German words in one post)

#175 Mary:

Sullivan got it exactly right this time.

Zork: What the hell is "partial" beheading? G-d these people are DISCUSTING..I dont care if it isnt nice to say this. Its DISCUSTING.

Make that "... flick captures..."

#178 Leah

I've got a theory.

Israelis, living with arabs, know that they are human beings, and take them seriously and at their word.

To most westerners, arabs in the Mid East are exotic ethnics, with theirown quaint customs, violent as they may be, and since it's not PC to make value judgements on the relative worth of different cutures (unless it's jewish culture being discussed), they get a pass - because they are exotic brown people (of whom little can be expected in any case).

It's racism masquerading as cultural sensitivity. Trust me on this.

I read Hitch earlier - I knew he was a nasty SOB, but not sure I expected this. Wonder what Andrew Sullivan's thoughts are on his buddy's words...

Hitch is a rank contrarian. I admire his eloquence, but that's about it. The glaring inconsistencies in his positions undermines his credibility. For example, Hitch is an outspoken supporter of the War on Terror, but at the same time is a fervent supporter of 'Palestinian nationalism'. 'Palestinian nationalism', as we all know, is little more than a vehicle for anti-semitism and massacre. In addition, he clings to tired and discredited left-wing canards and has a visceral hatred for people of faith.

Leah, this whole business is so barbaric, as to be beyond belief. If only the LLL knew exactly what they're supporting. But... much easier to form an uninformed opinion, too much work otherwise.

#176

2. Cannibalism

Idi Amin was a Muslim, living in Saudi Arabia and a cannibal.

So I am afraid you have to eat your words.

#185 Maine's Michael - Maine Kabalah Center

What you said.

I totally agree Michael. Yes..the PC of it all, low expectations..and the Romantic Shiek type stuff thats out there..

Plus they are "minorities.? E GAD..Minorities? a BILLION + People? We are going to HAVE TO DO something about this definition or else..we wont be allowed to save ourselves. These are NOT Minorities like American Blacks..This is an ALPHA group that hates us and only USES Minority Politics and issues to stop us from stopping THEM in their quest to ...G-d knows what now.

I can't imagine such a thing happening to a Muslim in any part of the Western world. No nation's people would stand and watch passively, silently consenting to the deed that shed his blood. Do these people have not even a drop of the milk of human kindness? Is hatred greater than common humanity?

Since some have posted on reaction to Reagan's passing, I'll pass this along. Don't know the source, my husband just emailed it to me.

BAD APPLES Give some Democrats credit: many of the comments released by party factotums on the death of President Ronald Reagan at least attempted to be gracious. But, while some of the words may have been magnanimous, the actions of some Democrats was not. In California, according to a Democratic House leadership staffer, Democratic House leader Nancy Pelosi's office refused until late in the day West Coast time to prepare any remarks by the leader on the passing of the President. "A call went out around mid-day on the East Coast that Reagan might be in serious condition, and that party leaders should be ready. But Pelosi's people basically said they couldn't' be bothered. [Democratic whip] Steny Hoyer had to get them in line. We got the impression they just didn't want to say anything that would be construed as supportive of a Republican." Pelosi's office also nixed sending flowers to the funeral home where the president's body was being prepared for burial. Back in Washington, staffers at the Democratic National Committee stopped a couple of interns who were lowering the flags to half mast outside their headquarters. "The interns were just doing what they thought was right," says a DNC staffer, who heard about the incident. "But somebody a bit more senior told them not to lower the flags until they absolutely had to, I guess when President Bush announced that all flags should be lowered. There was only an hour's difference. It was pretty petty, but that's how bad things have gotten around here."

#183 Leah

Zork: What the hell is "partial" beheading?

They have two kinds: one where the head is cut completely off with a sword and one where theycut the throat without breaking the bone.

I can't imagine such a thing happening to a Muslim in any part of the Western world. No nation's people would stand and watch passively,

I dunno. Ever been to South Florida?

#185 Maine's Michael-Maine Kabalah Centre

You are so right.

I saw this first hand though in a choice population in Jerusalem-reporters with foreign news desks. These people honestly believe they are Lawrences of Arabia. They have Palestinian slaves domestics, learn Arabic, have all their meals at the Jerusalem Colony hotel, and "some of their best friends" are Jews like Yossi Beilin and Uri Avinery.

zorky...if you start talkin boys again...don't forget about moi.

ploome hineni,

Festival of Ashura? People covered in blood? Babies? This whole thing is so strange to me..

Zork: How can they miss whats going on? They cant be not knowing that Leon Klinghoeffer ...sitting in a wheelchair was murdered and thrown off the boat..they didnt miss that Olympic thing..they havent missed whole lot of Christian Missionaries being kidnapped and murdered, they didnt miss those Statues coming down..or ...SHOOT.

How much do they hate Jews that they still back these people?

How much do they hate America that they still back these people?

AND how much do they want an "issue" that the Dems would support this?

I was a "Liberal"...but Ill tell ya..never THAT liberal...

FUCKING cutting off peoples HEADS in the 21st Century??? And the other thing I just read...Its..to NOT believe what you are hearing about.

WriterMom,

I met a really cute logger phd guy the other night. I'm willing to trade parts of him, for food.

#201

I think patil beheading means, the head is intentionally not cut off at the first go

Yes, you bleed to death.

Leah, they don't miss what's going on, they just don't care. As Maine's Michael said, they're so smug in their PC superiority and antisemitism, why would they even bother?

Everyone..Im saying it again..and Im saying it OUTLOUD. IF this is their culture..ITS DISCUSTING!!! ITS WRONG!!! Geeze.

Just imagine for ONE single minute if we..thats Americans and the West were doing ANYTHING like this. Just imagine if Israel was reguLARLY...doing anything like this...

It OK..cause they have OIL? SHAME ON US for not saying NO to this. Its gonna come back and bite us on the tush in one way or the other cause we didnt SAY NO TO Torture and 6th Century Behavior.

Perhaps we should help our Muslim-convert friends with some one-liners that might actually work in situations like this.

Help! I'm really your pre-teen virgin sister! And all I really want is to dishonor my family!

They can DO what they want..so many of em you cant stop it..but..in Fantasy Land..I wish we could let them BE and wall them IN..and away from US. Cause this MENTALITY will be arriving in the US soon..People.
(get a grip..its just a fantasy born out of frustration..liberals reading what I just wrote)

Dont you dare say ..It cant happen here..Lots of things can happen when you have a substantial group with lots of GELT..(thats money and money in amounts that you cant conceive of)

Im telling ya...its coming here..UGLY mentality helped along by Eurotrash that will also be comin here. See if Im not right?? Write it down...Ill be right..unfortunately.

Instinctively, I know I should pity this reporter, yet I cannot. Gardner is simply another sneering piece of anti-American Eurotrash. He no doubt found cohorting with murderous thugs/terrorists exhilerating and no doubt sympathized with them. I wonder if he had actually converted to Islam and how many other BBC/Reuters/AP reporters may also be converts?

Saudi executioner describes a normal day in the office. (Nothing about the second form of beheading or crucifiction)

OT, but somewhat related and I assume of interest to LGF...:)

Everyone's favourite "journalist," The Independent's Middle East "correspondent" Robert Fisk, is giving a public lecture in Ottawa, Canada with the appropriately LLL title of "The Fantasy War: Weapons of Mass Destruction and 'Democracy'" (note scare quotes) on Friday, 11 June at 7:30 p.m. in Room 360, The Tory Building, Carleton University campus.

The notice says "All are welcome," some more than others I suspect. Admission is free.

The appearance is being sponsored by the Carleton University School of Journalism and Communication, and the Canadian Association of Journalists.

For more info, contact Randal Martin, Adjunct Professor of Philosophy (sic), Carleton University, (613) 520-2600 ext. 3797.

#182 Jheka and #186 Dr. Dirk Diggler

I'm just curious as to what Andrew Sullivan thinks about Hitchens' (pretty harsh) words on Reagan, a man who he descrides as:

He was and is my hero, my political inspiration, the reason I was proud to call myself a "conservative," when I first came into political consciousness. My first twenty years were spent in England and so he will always take second place to Margaret Thatcher in my understanding of what political courage means, but I was proud to wear a "Reagan '80" button in my English high-school, an act that, at the time, was akin to admitting to being a mass-murderer.

I know Hitch is eloquent and I know Reagan is Andrew's hero -- just wonder what's actually said between friends...(I emailed Sullivan and asked him that.)

In BBC opinion
British military preventing Jew escaping the holocaust to the land the league of Nation had promised as Jewish homeland. Is an honorable human being.
An Arab killing Jews indiscriminately: is a freedom fighter.
An Arab leader not living up to their promise; Is a well respected leader.
Threat of Britain becoming an Muslim majority; is ridiculous worrying
Muslims murdering Hindus: Ignored
Muslims murdering Buddhist: Ignored
Muslims murdering Sudan Christians: Ignore
American leader defending his country: Fascist Racist Murderer
Israel leader defending his country while withdrawing from Gaza: Fascist bloodthirsty murder
Arabs killing a BBC journalist: Terrorist

#90 European-American 6/7/2004 11:28AM PST

Do we have an early candidate for the Fiskie?

Could be a double - the Fiskie and the Darwin award.

"Help, I'm A Rock!"

-FZ, RIP

#192 grayp

Not surprised. President Reagan reminds them of their failures. I think Ron would even be grinning ear-to-ear now, that even his death does not bring his detractors any release of their hate or jealousy. His place in history as one of the greatest Americans ever is assured. He'll be long remembered after those who despise him are long forgotten.

I wouldn't want to be a DNC staffer at the moment. They are burning alot of cash, and even with GWB slipping in the polls, Kerry is not getting any traction. Even after daily carpet bombing of bad press, GWB has not been many points below Kerry at any time.

“I’m a Muslim, help me, I’m a Muslim, help me,”

And what friggin difference does that make? Muslims kill each other in droves.

Though I'm not optimistic, I hope three things result from this shooting:

1. Frank Gardner survives in good health with all extremities intact (head included).

2. Frank Gardner reexamines his spiritual choices.

3. The BBC reexamines its political alignment with terrorist/activist/insurgent psychos.

OR (#181):

Perhaps this flick capture this age's Zeitgeist pretty well after all.

Quite possibly. What I meant by "signs aren't good" was that, having the (allegedly) right message probably won't prevent the movie from being trash aesthetically -- or perhaps won't even assure mere watchability. Unfortunately.

Rent "Il Assedio"/"Besieged" if you haven't already; good Bertolucci movie, and Thandie is just lovely.

Will do.

Saudi bystanders passively watched BBC reporter Frank Gardner as he lay bleeding in the street, screaming for help

Let's see, the BBC is virulently anti-Jewish and has a pro-Palestinian stance. What more can they do to make their reporters immune to assaults like these?

#182 Jheka

Nice blog. Thanks for link!

I remember reading in the REligious Policemans weblog about that you are not allowed to help anyone in an accident/shooting. I don't remember why? But I remember reading about it.

I know a family from Jordan, and I will never let myself be alone in a room with them again. too many hands not enough brains in these guys!

“I’m a Muslim, help me, I’m a Muslim, help me,” the British father of two daughters cried in Arabic, the officer said.

It sounds like a personal problem.

found the link

[Link: muttawa.blogspot.com...]

from the Archive of

Saturday, May 15, 2004
The Strange Saga of the Booze Bombers

The story starts in November 17, 2000, when Christopher Rodway and his wife were driving thru Riyadh in their 4WD. Suddenly it blew up, and Mr Rodway was seriously injured. We have a very stupid law that prevents us giving first-aid before the paramedics come , and they took 40 minutes to arrive. So poor Mrs Rodway, who was less seriously injured, had to sit all that time in her wrecked vehicle, next to her husband who was bleeding to death, surrounded by a crowd of gawping Saudis who could not or would not do anything to help. It beggars belief.

to #217 Melissa

I disagree. I think its high time that these journalists get punished for their support of Islamofascism. Looking at the picture, it seems that his member has been blown off.

Good.

I hope he (and the other apologists for jihad in the media) suffer at the hands of the cockaroaches they spend so much time defending. Frank, you reap what you so brother.

#215 Buckeye Abroad

wouldn't want to be a DNC staffer at the moment. They are burning alot of cash,

Sweetie pie, you just hit on the real reason Kerry suspended his campaign. What a coinky-dink!

has anyone got any proof that he was a muslim? Or was it a desperate cry of a wounded man to save his own life (I personally would've shouted my love for anything and everything to be able to live and see my kids again)?.

This man may have had an agenda in his reporting (hardly a surprise with his employers), this man may have been in an extremely dangerous area that any sensible person wouldve avoided at that time. But at the end of the day the savages that pose as holy warriors shot dead one unarmed man and seriously wounded another. My thoughts go out to the family of the deceased and to the wife and children of the injured reporter. Whatever his role, whatever his politics as a father and human being I can't help but feel pity for them.

Rage against me with all the bile you want but nothing will change that.

ps to repeat an earlier post i typed, I don't care wether the BBC calls them militants, freedom fighters, religious fundamentalists or terrorists as long as their title is prefixed by the word "dead".

#220 Mary:

Thanks!! BTW, did you catch the Morrissey story? Well, at least the enemy is showing its true colors.

Does anybody think this madness will spread to Egypt in the coming months?

You can never rule these things out but also the Egyptian state is a veteran fighter of Islamic terrorism which is mostly directed at itself. It has the mechanisms to quash this kind of thing and is many times stronger than the lame Saudi state.

On another note, how sick is it that a man lying and bleeding in the street has to produce a Koran and scream that he's a Muslim to try and get any help. Clearly the adherents of the religion of peace would prefer to let a dirty infidel bleed to death..

226 DaveRay

agreed.

As a Muslim he should have been well aware that his fellow vermin would do nothing.

This is from last Friday.
Two Wounded in Saudi Attack Are American

#226 Dave Ray

You're a decent man, Dave.

Gardner has a long history of taking potshots at the US and Israel in his ME reporting for the Beeb. Dollars to donuts, this incident will not change his worldview one iota.

On the contrary. He's be taken in with some bizarre form of stolkhome syndrome and start saying that the Zionists did it to him.

Is Fraudia Arabia the most corrupt despicable state in the world? Is the House of Fraud more or less 2 faced than say, Iran? With Iran at least you know where you stand.

Anyway, the bottom lesson from this story is that any westerner who tries to make nice with these people will be burnt sooner or later, koran in pocket and fluent arabic or not. It does not help. Attempts at self-endearment are useless.

Jheka:

I wouldn't take what Morrissey says too seriously...he's been talking out of his arse for years. Flirting with neo-nazism "National Front Disco" and "Asian Rut" being two really crass and awful songs and also flirting with the LLL with regards the songs "Margaret on the Guillotine", "The Queen is Dead" and "America is not the World". Its just cheap publicity for his floundering pop career. The Smiths were one of my favourite 80's bands...but Morrissey was always an arsewipe.

Nice headline from AFP:

BBC cameraman slain, journalist wounded in Saudi as terror takes uglier turn

See, there is your terrorism,, a fact of life for the poor oppressed who really can't help themselves taking out their very reasonable frustrations on fellow pawns in the great game, and then there's TERRORISM, when the impartial godlike journalistic observers of mankind's little foibles are targeted.

Office towers full of civilians collapse into rubble, families on planes rammed into the ground, aid workers immolated alive and their remains hung from bridges, technicians beheaded on camera, and two journalists getting shot means things are getting uglier?

#219 Ratbert

Let's see, the BBC is virulently anti-Jewish and has a pro-Palestinian stance. What more can they do to make their reporters immune to assaults like these?

Kill Jews. It's the next logical step for the BBC. If they try it, every BBC employee & family member becomes a legitimate target for retribution.

well done Mojo Dojo, talk like the Islamist! Target journalists and their families. What a balanced, civilised way of looking at it. Sure your name isnt Mohammed??

#238 Dave Ray

Thanks for the compliment asswipe.

#235 Dave Ray

Couldn't have said it better myself. Typical spew from fading Morissey. It is still so boring... deja vu, 80s all over again. STOP!

No, history does not repeat itself, does it Jacques?

No pity at all from me. Hope he dies from complications in the hostpital.

Those of you who don't understand why some of us feel nothing for this prick, think of this: If you were in the exact same situation, that bastard would be arguing with his camera man as to what the best angle for his video footage would be. He'd be overly concerned... with making sure his story made the front page.

I will not hesitate to help a person who is in trouble, unless I know for fact that they would do nothing for me if I was in the same situation.
If I see a person bleeding in the street, I'll help them. If they are on fire because they doused an American flag with gas and the fire got out of control.. I'll point and laugh.

The same goes there for worrying about what the LLL will think of comments like mine.
They are professionals at acting "concerned" and "helping" people (and "professionals" applies perfectly, because if they can make money on something, they'll do it)
Not one ***ing thing they do has anything to do with simply doing something out of good-heartedness.
It's all about themselves. It's all about "I'm going to help this person because it will make me famous" or "I'm going to help this person because I'll get on the news and be able to tell people how this is all Bush=Hitlers fault".

They are the ultimate definition of "self-centered".

I posted this a few minutes ago on Tim Blair's site:

"The Saudis stood idly by while Mr. Gardner bled in the street because they didn't care that he was a muslim."

"In America (and most other Western Countries), we would have rushed forward to help for precisely the same reason."

If there's some law that prevents them from rendering first aid then that might be a mitigating circumstance (to some small extent), but did they even try to get him out of the street or provide any aid or comfort at all to their muslim brother? It doesn't appear so.

I understand that Gardner is in a coma. Despite his journalistic sins, I hope he recovers and learns a valuable lesson: there are no shades of gray in the struggle for freedom in the Middle East. In his case, it's a lesson harshly taught.

ok JonB thats your opinion, but how do you know for sure that the Journalist wouldn't have helped you? You don't do you? You have no proof. A good samaritan would not make a judgment call on a mans character before he/she helped them, that would be the actions of a selfish bigoted prick. You'd rather revel in his pain, well carry on, hope it keeps you warm at night. You accuse of the LLL of fake compassion, but you seem to display none at all which is more depressing.

I would help anyone as long as they were not threatening my life. That may include someone who has just tried to kill me.

On the other hand, there have been no shortage of westerners who venture out into the viper's nests of Islamo-fascism thinking they, for some reason, are immune from the poison of terror and violence. They think that if they work hard enough to show that they are "ok" in the minds of Islamo-fascists, they will be untouched.

I find that naivitiy not only dangerous and self-destructive to whoever holds it, but also irritating because it is exactly the wrong way to deal with fascism, of any sort.

My last point is this: Frank Gardener (I hope he makes a full recovery) obviously knew Saudi Arabia very well. The fact that felt he needed to scream out his "muslim crudentials" while on the floor bleeding from several bullet holes says something unbelievably creepy about Saudi Arabia.

Just to clarify on my hypothetical situation above: IF I was in war, for example, and someone who had been firing at me was wounded, I would feel obligated to adminster help to the enemy soldier.

in a war time situation you would not only be obligated by your own human decency but also the Geneva convention...ok lets just focus on the human decency part then!

"They did not know what they were doing. They killed their best friend."

hope that last comment wasnt aimed at the death of a freelance Irish cameraman...hardly a best friend...more the wrong man in the wrong place

#226 Dave Ray

Agreed!

Years ago, I was taught what to yell if someone attacked me--not "rape," but "FIRE!"

Fire spreads, and people's self-interest will prompt a call to the emergency folks.

So there's no way we can tell the guy's belief by what he yelled--could be pure fiction.

The problem with Islam is FATALISM. This is a belief that Big Al (pbuhv) does unto you as he wills, so suck it up!

You can really see this horrible attitude in the movie, "Hidalgo"!
(I recommend it, regardless of Viggo's politics--the horse is the star, anyway. "Hidalgo," based on a true story, actually gives a *real* good look at some basic flaws of the Arabic tribal culture. I'm sure the LLLs didn't realize how awful these flaws look to people with functioning morals.)

More on fatalism: There is no reason for muslims of any flavor to rush to anyone's aid, since they believe people will either live or die, according to the will of Big Al (pbuhv).

See? No personal decision necessary. It is all "out of their hands." No moral struggle here at all--morality was surrendered at the door to the mosque!

Yet the "tribal mindset disconnect" requires revenge against Big Al's "instrument" if Big Al decides to take somebody out. Schizoids should have it so many ways...

It is sad that the Muslim men did not help this man. According to Allah Ta'alla every life, even that of the kufr is precious.

But with the Muslimahs, it is different. He was a non-mahram (not prohibited in marriage) to the Saudi Muslimahs. It is thus very important that strict hijaab is observed with him. And Allah Ta'allah says "avert your gaze". A muslim female cannot look at him, or touch him, because, as is clear from the Noble Qua'ran modesty and shame are part of Imaan.

It is also very sad that this man felt that he had to deceive the Muslims with a false claim to being a Muslim. It is clear that he his not. He has no beard, and has adopted the ways of the kaffir. This deceit would clearly anger Allah Ta'alla. And then he dares to criticize the Muslims! Insh'allah he will do good Tawbeh and Allah Ta'alla will be most merciful.

Aisha.

Aisha/David:

Offhand, what exactly does the "ta'alla" deal after "Allah" mean?

Cam, it means "exhaulted".

So when a Muslim writes "Allah (SWT)", he means Allah (Subhanahu wa ta'ala). This means Allah is pure of having partners and He is exalted from having a son. Sometimes Muslims use other expressions when the name of Allah is written or pronounced. Some of which are: "'Azza Wa Jall": He is the Mighty and the Majestic; "Jalla Jalaluh": He is the exalted Majestic

#254 Aisha:

Cheers Big Ears. Always wondered 'bout that.

Analysis
By Frank Gardner
BBC security correspondent

"Much has happened in the past 12 months. Some of al-Qaeda's leading lights have been caught and interrogated. Saddam Hussein is no longer in power in Baghdad. Numerous plots and attacks have been thwarted. And yet, depressingly, the so-called war on terror is still with us."

As Frank Gardner lay bleeding in the street, shot by so-called terrorists, he pondered why his Muslim brothers would not come to his aid...he concluded..maybe,... just maybe Islam, the so-called religion of peace, was all BS. Maybe Allah should go piss on an electric fence!

What the bloody hell, it seems that the BBC is still maintaining its journalistic integrity after this fluke accident to Gardner.

Here

It seems that those damn zionist nazis have killed a "man in a wheelchair", good grief! This poor man who was crippled in the '87 intafada couldnt possibly have anything possibly relating to terrorism that may have brough on the attack.

At least they know their audience, in the Language options on the side they are listing the top hits (presumably), forgive me for expecting French, German etc. on the BBC website it seems that the top 3 are.

1)Arabic
2)Persian
3)Turkish

This is just one more piece of the puzzle to that a riddle enshrined in a mystery and wrapped in an enigma that is todays BBC. Every time they use the Pali's killed by Israeli soldiers against - Israel claims that this was in retaliation for they loose one more piece of credibility.

I just hope that Gardner recovers fully and has an epiphany about the true nature of what he seems to revere so much.

This unhappy and tragic event in KSA would have been more uplifting if only Orla Verrmin had been present and also severely wounded.

Why should anyone be surprised at this? Saudis have always considered ALL non-muslims as expendable.

I am a little surprised at the naivete of this journalist. Did he really think being a dhimini would protect him? Did he really thing the same kind of people who machine gun pregnant women and two year old girls would spare HIM?

Either he was very stupid, or perhaps he was set up as an "object lesson" for other journalists.

Finally I get a chance to post here at the ass-end of the thread. I’ve got to quit my bad habit of going to work. Now if I could only find someone to pay me to sit and read LGF all day…

1. Great post, Liege Charles. Gross, but good. So don’t try and outdo yourself with something nastier.
2. I had skipped the AP/AFP etc. story on yahoo, but I couldn’t avoid it here. #73 John Jay is right on. The title, “Help me, I’m Muslim,” made me queasy. I scanned quickly through the post hoping the bastard was still alive because all I felt was a pure hate for this sack of $H][T, I wanted to secure my humanity before I concluded he was wallowing in his just desserts. I believe anyone here on this board including JonB, despite his professed mind-reading abilities to detect potential good Samaritans from bad, would rush to help someone in a similar situation. Maybe I’m a bit optimistic, but just imagine this happening while you are walking to work. Two thugs jump out of nowhere, cap a random person near you, and run away. What do you think would happen? Despite the anecdotal New York stories, do you honestly think people around you would just walk by? No, and don’t even think of trying to be over-the-top with a response of ‘yes, and people would piss on him too’ because I’m too pissed off to let that slide.
3. I don’t buy this law against helping a injured person as a legit excuse. Bullsh0t. Ever hear of calling for help, you evil f()cks?! How about getting him to lie still, Goddamnit! Safe country, my ass! Low crime rate, what f()cking good is that if you end up bleeding to death after an car accident?
4. I think the term poetic justice was created for people such as Gardner who spend their career trying to put a positive spin on cancerous elements of a dying civilization and defecating on the West only to end up being attacked by very people he was symp’ing for. Homer is smiling somewhere. Pity and sympathy are good things when applied to who demonstrate these themselves. This is what I think JonB was trying to say and it really can only be applied in review. I would jump to help him, but I would not have not dissuaded him from going to the Al-Queda safe house. I would have encouraged it. Those with a f()cking brain, that is to say conservatives, know that the short and sweet lines of wisdom like #111 Sefton’s “You play with snakes, you get bit,” are blessedly free of nuance.
5. I think #28 Henry is right. He will spin this to save his ideology as leftists are forced to do. As other idealists put it, “Mundus vult decipi. (The world wants to be deceived.)”

#259, Alan. My votes with the "object lesson".

from a Frank Gardner "FAQ" on the killer Sheikh Yassin

Q: What kind of man was he?

On a personal level he was quite engaging. I interviewed him a couple of years ago from his hospital bed in Gaza. He didn't speak English, he spoke only Arabic.

He was one of those people that thought very carefully before he opened his mouth. He was a tiny, frail man, but his influence and prestige was enormous within the Palestinian territories.

He was the spiritual leader of Hamas, a very powerful organisation with international links.

READ THIS CAREFULLY -- this is what he has to say about a mass murderer -- engaging, prestigious...Hamas is a powerful organisation with international links, like the United Nations...

"gunmen separated the Saudi escort "

Excuse me brothers! could you go grab a fallafal or something? we need to shoot these infidels, thank you.

Odin, 177 and 188,

Many thanks for enlightening me on the Islamic world's existing track record on crucifixion and cannibalism. I remember the Idi Amin angle, but the crucifixion practice in KSA was news to me. My concern is that these crimes will be committed against Coalition forces in Iraq. How might Big Media react if they see GI Joe or GI Jane nailed to a cross? "But, but, Abu Ghraib . . . "

Since we are engaged in this stimulating intellectual discussion, what do you know about Islamist practices regarding bestiality and circle jerks? Enjoyed on the QT in the finest families? Sure gets cold in the desert at night, you know.

Can anyone tell me if Frank Gardner's writing has been one-sided and, if so, to what degree? That is, anti-Israel, anti-US, or pro-terrorist.

Links would be helpful. Thanks.

Here's a blog that tracks BBC bias:

[Link: www.biased-bbc.blogspot.com...]

Charles...I don't see a link to this blog...you might want to consider linking to it.

From the story as published by Reuters:

"Saudi television pictures from the scene showed a Western man, alive but bloodied, lying in the middle of the road before being helped into a vehicle by Saudi security men."

That bystanders would not run into a street that had just been raked by gun fire is not unusual to hear, but he was eventually helped, even though the Saudi Arabian people are part of the subhuman Muslim scurge. How's that for a liberal?

#267 Blackman

And I'm sure you would have been standing on the sidelines too - watching the man bleed to death.

1. In another version of the popular urban legend, the British journalist wakes up in the middle of a street with only the left kidney removed.

2. Why do all my dates seem to end with getting thrown out of a moving car? Tom wondered. Oh, well... back to Yahoo! Personals.

3. Sparse attendance continues to be a problem at the "All-Middle-Aged-White-Man Breakdancing Competition."

4. I remember this episode of Jackass. In a few seconds, a shirtless Wee Man is going to fart on his head.

5. "Dang, Now I'll never make it to the Tom Wolfe Lookalike Convention."

if you put yourself in the situation for a second without assuming the general saudi populace are blackhearted scum...

someone just opened fire on a couple of westerners. You're from the area. They know where you live. Now you go and help the person they just tried to kill. I'm sure they'd let it slide, you're in no danger...

dumbass...

#270 rummyjohn

But doesn't that sort of illustrate the overarching point that the Saudis are hypocrites and most definitely not our friends?

#265 Marc

Can anyone tell me if Frank Gardner's writing has been one-sided and, if so, to what degree? That is, anti-Israel, anti-US, or pro-terrorist.

I haven't done the research personally, but one of Tim Blair's readers has and apparently his reports were unbiased (by the Beeb's standards, anyway):

I've just visited the BBC site - I hadn't recognised the name. But I recognised the face. (...)

Unlike his colleagues, he didn't put the word 'terrorist' in quotation marks when talking about them (evidence here). He called a Terrorist a Terrorist, not a 'militant', or a 'dissident'. This often caused Arab Media Watch to seethe and whine. When reporting what some Palestinian official said, other Beebheads would say 'Israel is responsible for Global warming' whereas he would say 'A Palestinian environmentalist said that Israel is responsible for Global warming'.

I didn't agree, and still don't agree, with some of his analysis. But I'll give him this : he was honestly trying to be objective. (...)

If anybody thinks this was a 'random hit', then I have a wonderful Harbour Bridge for sale...

Posted by Alan E. Brain

#200 zorkie

**blushing**

Please, the whole is worth much more than the sum of my parts! ;-)

(trying to catch up to threads after 24 hrs. away!)

Quite frankly I am appalled by some of the comments made on this board, and to be honest some of them are extremely disgraceful and those who have said them should feel ashamed.

I do not regard myself as Christian, Muslim, Hindu etc. but I consider myself to be a Human Being. And if I saw anyone laying in a street such as Mr Gardner, bleeding to death after being riddled with bullets, I would feel compelled to help him regardless of the dangerous situation. I am a nurse, and I live in Northern Ireland, and I have been in many situations where people have been maimed because of their religion etc. On one occasion, a young man had been shot because he was wearing a celtic shirt and when no one else would help, I helped him. That doesn't make me couragous - it makes me a Human Being.

It doesn't matter what race or creed you are, but I am disgusted to read comments by people here saying that they feel no sympathy for him. Bearing in mind, this is a man, who is completely innocent, with a wife and children, and unarmed being gunned down and riddled with bullet and terribly alone. Put yourself in his shoes - imagine that your friend has just been shot dead and that you are dying in agony with no one helping you - I'm quite sure, then that you would understand his desperation and fear, causing him to call out that he is a Muslim - showing that he was so desperate for help - he would do anything.

Frank Gardner is a well respected man and journalist and a friend of Saudi Arabia. I am disgusted that people here, say he does not deserve sympathy. Where is your compassion?

It's never a good idea to post a comment when you're angry.

But reading some of the comments on this thread, I have to say "HOW DARE YOU"

When I first read about it, I didn't recognise the name. I thought he was just another Antisemitic Beebhead, like most of the BBC's rotten crew. So What. This is what I wrote at Tim's site:

Steve :

The Saudis stood idly by while Mr. Gardner bled in the street because they didn't care that he was a muslim.
In America (and most other Western countries), we would have rushed forward to help for precisely the same reason.

Well said, sir.

To others:

I wonder if he got that point before he passed out...
Well, Garnder, has found out what that gross error can entail.

How about a little common humanity? This poor guy's been gutshot by Al Qaeda scumbags, and all some people can do is make snide remarks.
How about some well-wishing for his recovery? Jeez, some people are sounding like Lefties around here, too full of the 'Big Picture' for simple decency. By all means point out the Beeb and other's hypocricy etc, but remember, that's a human being who's just been whacked, not a cypher.
(Adherence : Agnostic CofE with a tendency to commit atheistic Buddhism. But my wife and son are Catholic)

After that, I did a little research on the man. As has been partially quoted above , here is what I wrote:

I've just visited the BBC site - I hadn't recognised the name. But I recognised the face.

Frank Gardner was one of the few, the very few, Beeb talking heads who actually knew what he was talking about, and wasn't in the habit of spinning everything at 78 rpm. (33 1/3 is another matter, but that's almost unavoidable). He's no run-of-the-mill correspondent, he was the BBC's expert on security in the Middle East.

John Simpson is about the only other one of his calibre.

If he's a Muslim, Ik bin Nederlander. What he was doing was going into a dangerous area, and using camouflage. Look at the picture. Doesn't exactly shout out 'Westerner' does it? He knew enough about the area to know what to say when wounded to maximise his chances of survival, we're talking 'keeping a cool head even if your guts are hanging out' here. I hope that in the same situation I would have the same presence of mind (though I'd prefer absence-of-body).

Oh yes, one more thing. Unlike his colleagues, he didn't put the word 'terrorist' in quotation marks when talking about them. He called a Terrorist a Terrorist, not a 'militant', or a 'dissident'. This often caused Arab Media Watch to seeth and whine. When reporting what some Palestinian official said, other Beebheads would say 'Israel is responsible for Global warming' whereas he would say 'A Palestinian environmentalist said that Israel is responsible for Global warming'.

I didn't agree, and still don't agree, with some of his analysis. But I'll give him this : he was honestly trying to be objective. And he knew more about the Middle East than I ever will. I'll revise my comment about him not being Muslim, as Tim said, he may have been, though there's no evidence I've seen on the net either. 'Going native' is a common phenomenon. But if so, it didn't affect his mainly dispassionate reporting. And that would have really gotten Al Qaeda's goat.

If anybody thinks this was a 'random hit', then I have a wonderful Harbour Bridge for sale...

Since then, it's been revealed that he definitely wasn't Muslim.

But I say again, So What?

Some of the commenters here at LGF would have been exactly like those 'Good Germans' who watched Jews getting beaten up, then excused their lack of action by saying 'He had it coming to him'.

I implore you, have a good look at yourselves. I'm not saying you're evil, SS etc, I'm saying remember your common decency. Most Germans didn't, and may they rot because of it.

My apologies if I've upset anyone who lost relatives in the Holocaust.

It would never have happened if far too many ordinary, good people hadn't looked the other way. I see the same attitude here that allowed this to happen, and I get angry. Looking away is all too human a thing to do, and my entire being cries out 'Never Again'. Common decency is very difficult when the Enemy is blowing up kids in homicide bombings, crying 'Kill the Jews', decapitating people slowly and a whole host of other abominations. I shouldn't blame people for temporarily losing sight of their humanity under these circumstances.
But then I think of Auschwitz and MY BLOOD BOILS. I'm not Jewish, but those weren't just Jews, they were Human Beings. Not Numbers, People. That they were members of a group traditionally persecuted makes things worse, not better.

Fortunately, from looking at other posts, there are still plenty of people who remember their humanity. Some have even risked their lives for it.

Finally, I played a mid-sized role in designing and building the computer Combat System of the Israeli Defence Force's 'Dolphin' class submarines. The ones that have been officially stated to carry Nukes. Don't mistake my call for Humanity as soft-heartedness in the face of an implacable Enemy. Every day, the IDF, faced with far more provocation than you can imagine, remembers their humanity. Please do likewise.

From what I understand, this reporter was rabidly pro-terrorist, anti-semitic, and anti-American. He made heroes of Arab terrorists.

Why should you feel sorry for a man who was killed by his own heroes. I doubt he had an ounce of pity for the Jews that his hero blew up.

From what I understand, this reporter was rabidly pro-terrorist, anti-semitic, and anti-American. He made heroes of Arab terrorists.

Excuse me #44, but what you have just written is completely untrue. Frank Gardner is one of the most fairly balanced and understanding journalists who study and report on affairs in the Middle East.

Spiny,

Thanks...I guess I will give him the benefit of the doubt on the issue of bias.

Still bothersome to me, though, is what appears to be an admission on his part that he thought rescue was deserved because he is Muslim.

#18 Radian
I disagree with anyone who does not feel pity for an unarmmed, shot, noncombatant.

Then we disagree.

I don't shed a tear, loose a nano-second of sleep, or bust one grape over the fact that this POS is shot in the street like a dog, let's see if that hot lead helps with his 'journalistic objectivism'.