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Ignore the Man Behind the Burqa

Sun, Jun 20, 2004 at 5:44:42 pm PDT

Last week we noted the case of a Muslim schoolgirl in Britain whose desire to wear the jilbab (a full-length Muslim gown, almost like a burqa but not covering the face) was turned down by the High Court: Symbols of Oppression.

Can you imagine my surprise to discover that this 15-year old orphan was influenced by the radical Islamic terror gang Hizb ut-Tahrir? Revealed: radicals who backed girl in dress fight.

THE teenage girl who fought a two-year legal battle to wear full Islamic dress to school was influenced by an extremist Muslim splinter group.

Hizb ut-Tahrir (HuT), which is legal in Britain but banned in Germany and much of the Middle East, advised Shabina Begum, a 15-year-old orphan. Her case, which was funded by legal aid, was thrown out by the High Court last week.

Mainstream Muslim leaders reacted angrily to news of extremist involvement in the case. They fear it risks stirring up the sort of controversy sparked in France when the government banned the wearing of the hijab, or headscarf, in school. Khalid Mahmood, Labour MP for Birmingham’s Perry Bar constituency, said: “Most Muslims are happy with the existing dress code. I think they (HuT) are trying to pick a fight. The Home Office needs to look at some of their activities. At the moment they are very close to the edge.”

Mahmood said HuT’s role was particularly disturbing because of Begum’s vulnerability. She was 13 when, in September 2002, she was sent home from Denbigh high school in Luton for wearing a jilbab, an ankle-length dress that leaves only the face and hands visible. Begum, who was regarded as a promising pupil, was orphaned last April with the death of her mother. Her father had died in 1992. Her 21-year-old brother, Shuweb Rahman, who helped her bring the case, is an HuT supporter. ...

Dr Imran Waheed, an HuT spokesman, confirmed that leading activists had encouraged Begum in the dispute. “Our members in Luton have consistently advised Shabina and her family to stand up for her right to an education and her right to observe the Islamic ordinances, including the wearing of the jilbab,” he said in a statement. He emphasised that the group had not contributed financially towards the legal action or to her family.

According to Dr Nazreen Nawaz, also an HuT spokesman, one of the group’s supporters, Rebekha Khan, 23, has been in contact with Begum for the past two years. This weekend, Khan played down her role: “The first time I met Shabina was at an Islamic event two years ago. It was clear to me even then that she was already very orientated to Islam.”

Mahmood, who has in the past likened HuT to the British National party, said it had a record of targeting young people in schools and universities to lure them away from the mainstream of the Muslim community in Britain. “It is important that social services look into that role,” he said.

In this country, CAIR is serving the same function as Hizb ut-Tahrir, advancing the radical agenda at every opportunity—but CAIR’s a little slicker at hiding their militancy. (Since September 11, especially.) Aggressively pushing for acceptance of repressive dress for women in every facet of Western life is very much a part of the strategy of radical Islam.

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1 [Engineer]  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 3:51:12pm
Gaining acceptance of repressive dress for women in every facet of Western life is very much a part of the strategy of radical Islam.

Yes, get their way of life accepted as much as possible. The Call to Pray, the dress code for woman, every thing they can. It just makes their takeover easier. Watch they try to get the age of marraige lowered for girls as they have done in some parts of Europe.

2 ShariaNoMo  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 3:51:40pm

the screw tightens
great job Charles

3 Nannette  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 3:53:10pm

Hizb ut-Tahrir are closely associated with Al Muhajiroun.

Of course they wouldn't contribute towards the girls legal costs when she was on legal aid, paid for by the British taxpayer... who is now forced to support radical Islam through cases like this!

4 King Murmillo  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 3:53:32pm

Thus speaks King Murmillo:

This is part of the progressive attempt to create a climate in Europe (and America) that establishes repressive Islamic practices as protected under our tolerant governments. Hijab turns to jilbab, sharia follows . . .

5 Nannette  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 3:54:26pm

thanks for posting this one Charles it exposes the idiocy of the legal aid system in this country which pays for cases like this and won't pay for genuine cases to help those really in need.

6 lmg  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 3:55:18pm

Jilbab the HuT?

7 cba  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 3:56:37pm

#6 lmg:
Groan!!!

Good one...

8 okimutt  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 3:59:32pm

Good Lord- Islamic nutters sticking up for orphans and
urchins! Where the hell is Fagin when you need him? Is
there a fatwa on Oliver Twist yet or is it a straight out
headchopping?

9 Paladin  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 3:59:45pm

Doesn't separate but equal = racism?

10 Q  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 4:02:20pm
...but CAIR’s a little slicker at hiding their militancy.

Indeed.

11 Barbara Skolaut  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 4:03:38pm

Not for moslems, Paladin - the rules don't apply to them.

Didn't you get the memo?

12 King Murmillo  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 4:03:57pm

Thus speaks King Murmillo:

Watch for the lawsuits in support of female circumcision covered by the National Health Service or Medicaid, as our culture of entitlement is used to strengthen the legitimacy of radical Islam in our midst.

13 Norwegian kafir  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 4:04:35pm

Do Brits ever ban ANY kind of Islamofascist organization? Buy a copy of "Leaving Islam - Apostates Speak Out" , edited by Ibn Warraq , and send it to Tony Blair.

I just watched some nice English chaps making a lot of trouble in major Portugese cities during the Euro Football Cup. Why not send these people back to the Ummah Kingdom and ask them to clean up all the Islamists in Britain? They don't even need pay, just give them a pint.........

14 Dave Ray  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 4:05:29pm

norwegian kafir:

good idea, at least they'd be doing society a favour for once!

15 Dave Ray  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 4:06:43pm

ps they're not that cheap! One pint? They'd demand a bag of Pork Scratchings to go with it!

16 papijoe  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 4:06:47pm

Apparently jihadis in the UK don't need to hide their militancy

17 Paladin  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 4:07:01pm

But don't dare mention God in the Pledge!

18 Nannette  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 4:08:50pm

Excuse me - but we in the UK have had enough of these bloody scroungers... we, the taxpayers, had to pay for this stupid lawsuit...

We should all demand our money back and let the Islamists pay the bills...

19 Dom  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 4:09:36pm
Mahmood, who has in the past likened HuT to the British National party, said it had a record of targeting young people in schools and universities to lure them away from the mainstream of the Muslim community in Britain.

They are on stalls in every shopping centre, student union, Muslim Society and public demonstration. At no time that I enquired as to their causes have I gone away thinking 'this should be legal'. Why they are allowed to operate is way beyond me.

And now I can post this somewhere relevant: Jalaluddin Patel, not a breath of fresh air.

20 Paladin  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 4:10:43pm

#18 Nannette

I thought the UK had a rule that the loser of a suit pays the tab, yes?

21 Dave Ray  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 4:13:45pm

I believe deportation could solve the problem. Want asylum? great! Want a new life free from persecution? Welcome! Want to change our culture, our laws and enforce your religion on us? Here's a first class ticket back to fuckoffsville, Middle Eastern Arab theocracy!

22 Nannette  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 4:16:19pm

Paladin,

In the case of legal aid, it's paid for by the taxpayer, whether they win or lose...

23 Nannette  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 4:17:38pm

#21 Dave Ray

Want asylum? great! Want a new life free from persecution? Welcome! Want to change our culture, our laws and enforce your religion on us? Here's a first class ticket back to fuckoffsville, Middle Eastern Arab theocracy!


If only........

24 andreaSF  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 4:19:03pm

Sounds like the UK has the same judicial disease that America and Israel has. Social engineering and legislation from the bench. All Hail the Star Chamber!

Blech. Can they not impeach these activist judges and treasonous lawyers?

Speak up, traditional citizens!

25 Dave Ray  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 4:19:18pm

I know, I can dream.....

26 Paladin  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 4:20:20pm

#22 Nannette

Leave it to the scummy muslims to find a way to get someone else to pay for their folly. How hard would it be to use the system against them?

27 andreaSF  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 4:20:57pm

I mean, judges could reject these stupid irrelevant suits, but there must be the activist version of the ACLU in the UK too.

28 Donna V.  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 4:25:46pm

I look at these girls wrapped up in their potato sacks and I have to wonder what they really want - especially those born and raised in Western countries. When I was Shabina's age, I was very interested in clothes. I'm sure a lot of them must feel envy and sadness when they see other young girls out there in pretty summer dresses, with long hair flowing, laughing and having fun, while they have to hide their hair and walk around wearing tents. I remember an interview the Chicago Trib did with some Muslim girls shortly after 9/11 - they all vehemently asserted that, no, they didn't mind wearing hijab and no, they didn't ever wish they could walk around in a pair of capris and a t-shirt, not even on hot days,...,Well, what else could they say? It's like walking around Havana and asking people what they think about Castro. "Oh, the great leader, he's wonderful, we hope he lives to be 1000."

Of course, Muslim girls know by the time they reach 15 that nobody gives a good goddamn about their opinions and wishes and feelings anyway.

29 Bob G.  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 4:27:21pm

Neither the first nor the last time Muslims use kids as starter martyrs.

30 Nannette  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 4:34:37pm

Paladin

They use our systems against us, both here in the UK and in America... because they're so vocal when it comes to shouting racism... but it's okay for them to be racist!

The UK isn't aware that Islamists see themselves as supremacists...

31 Nannette  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 4:35:57pm

#25 Dave Ray

When will this country stand up and the vast, but silent majority start going ballistic about the abuse we have to suffer at the hands of these radical racists?

32 King Murmillo  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 4:37:36pm

Thus speaks King Murmillo:

The burqa or jilbab has been a traditional part of British life for years

burqa

33 Dave Ray  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 4:38:02pm

Nannette:

Soon, I hope. Something will have to break soon, we just can't cope with it the way it's going. It's chipping away at who we are and that's just not on!

34 Nannette  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 4:48:18pm

King Murmillo - the burka is the most common form of dress on the Edgware Road, at the Marble Arch end... it's like being in Saudi.

35 Geepers  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 4:48:33pm

Donna V. (#28),

I look at these girls wrapped up in their potato sacks and I have to wonder what they really want

Not to be beaten by their brothers/uncles/fathers/husbands.

Their family tells them they're worthless and it says so explicitly in Sharia law. allah says so. Good little muslim girls do as there told by there betters; any man.

That's why the feminists are so supportive of their decision to be property, ... or something...

um ... ,

No war for oil!

36 Nannette  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 4:52:38pm

Dave Ray, I know something's got to give and the government should have seen that we're fed up by the number of UKIP seats that were won during the Euro election.

We don't want to be part of Europe and we don't want this country to be flooded with immigrants who want to destroy us - if they can't assimilate with us, we sure as hell don't want to assimilate to them.

They've got so cocky as to think we have to adapt to their ways and not the other way around - and there's some limp wristed, hand wringing ignoramuses who think we should "understand" them and try and adapt to their way of life, not realising that they're breaking down the very fabric and culture of Britain.

37 Dom  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 4:56:22pm

There is a growing movement among UK Muslims specifically against Hizb-ut-Tahrir. The quicker the better, because sooner or later they're in big trouble.

Or not. One charge levelled against them is they aren't observant enough.

Is there anything else worth knowing about Hizb-ut-Tahrir?

There are too many things to list on this leaflet, but they say that it is permissible to view nude pictures (Al-Wa’ee publication, Q + A section, 29 May 1970CE), smoking is permissible, shaving the beard (thus imitating homosexuals) is permissible, listening to music is permissible.link

As I understand it Hizb-ut-Tahrir UK suffers strained links with HQ.

Here is one of their many websites.

38 [Engineer]  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 4:57:35pm

#35 Geepers

Not to be beaten by their brothers/uncles/fathers/husbands.

They probably have other concerns about the males in their family.

According to Minnesota based psychoanalyst and Arabist, Dr. Nancy Kobrin, it is a culture in which shame and honor play decisive roles and in which the debasement of women is paramount. In an utterly fascinating and as-yet unpublished book, which I will be introducing, the Sheik's New Clothes: the Psychoanalytic Roots of Islamic Suicide Terrorism, Kobrin, and her Israeli co-author, counter-terrorism expert Yoram Schweitzer, describe barbarous family and clan dynamics in which children, both boys and girls, are routinely orally and anally raped by male relatives; infant males are sometimes sadistically over-stimulated by being masturbated; boys between the ages of 7-12 are publicly and traumatically circumcised; many girls are clitoridectomized; and women are seen as the source of all shame and dishonor and treated accordingly: very, very badly.


The Psychoanalytic Roots of Islamic Terrorism

39 King Murmillo  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 5:02:46pm

And King Murmillo responds to Nannette:

Perhaps this should be mandatory for the pious men-folk on Edgware RoadLo, and they shall adorn themselves with beards of piety

40 zulubaby  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 5:04:38pm

Engineer, it's actually hard to believe that people can be that cruel and barbaric. I almost don't want to believe it even though I know it's true.

41 Geepers  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 5:05:55pm

[Engineer] (#38),

That's just fucked up. Just when you thought they couldn't get any more depraved, they surprise you with new lows.

42 Nannette  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 5:07:14pm

#39 King Murmillo - that's too funny... LOL

43 struan al kufr  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 5:08:48pm

Is this ever OT?

Some are actually appearing to begin to IT.

Amid anger over beheading, U.S. minister pleads for tolerance

Backlash over the beheading of a U.S. contractor in Saudi Arabia was as clear as a sign in the town where he was born.
"Stamp out Islam," read a cardboard sign that also depicted a hand-drawn boot over a crescent and star. Phil Galasso posted it on a utility pole near his house in Eagleswood Township.

"I'm getting a little fed up with the mindless violence against civilians who had nothing to do with the war in the Middle East," Galasso said Sunday. He called Islam a "vile, bigoted faith" that subjugates women and uses force to spread its message.

KA-CHING! KA-CHING! KA-CHING!

44 [Engineer]  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 5:10:34pm

#40 zulubaby

it's actually hard to believe that people can be that cruel and barbaric.

Remember that thread we had (maybe a year ago) about the girl who was killed by her mother because her brothers got her pregant? That really opened my eyes to what we are dealing with. I must have read that whole thread five or six times just not believeing it. These are sick, sick people and they have no place in this world if they will not change.

45 zulubaby  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 5:12:28pm

Engineer, yes, I remember it. It's going to be a long, hard struggle to drag these people into the light.

46 grayp  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 5:12:57pm

Well, bigel should be here any second.

When Charles posted the original story I asked a question that, as far as I know, went unanswered.

How was it legal for this girl to not attend school for 2 years?

And in other news of European decay, The Belgian gov't has been forced to deny official support of the Iranian terrorist group after 41 of 71 Begian senators signed a petition to have it's classification as a terrorist organization removed.

The Belgian military was unionized in 1996.

47 patrickafir  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 5:17:08pm
...but CAIR’s a little slicker at hiding their militancy.

CAIR is nothing less than the Sinn Fein of Islamic terror.

48 WriterMom  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 5:20:28pm

grayp

You are a racist for even asking that question! Wearing a Islamobag is much more important than getting an education.

/Dhimicratic approach

49 PostalWorker  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 5:27:19pm

#19 Dom

WTF? That is on Mindspring's Euro site main page?

50 Aisha  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 5:28:39pm

Wassallam,

Yes, get their way of life accepted as much as possible. The Call to Pray, the dress code for woman, every thing they can. It just makes their takeover easier. Watch they try to get the age of marraige lowered for girls as they have done in some parts of Europe.

What is wrong with accepting our way of life?

By wearing Hijaab, can be a means of encouragement for the people towards Islam. After all, the donning of Hijaab is such a dignified way of dressing for a woman because in this way she is concealing what is not
permissible for a strange man's gaze to fall upon. By her practicing and being firm on the laws of Islam and together with having sincere intentions, most definitely this will be a means of encouraging the other Muslims to practice on their Deen and also a means of invitation towards Islam for the non-Muslims. By encouraging others towards Islam and towards the laws of Allah, one will receive the reward of whatever good the next person practices upon. By Muslim women donning the Islamic way of dressing, especially in today's time of sin, immodesty and futility, is making Islam apparent in its pristine purity. The believing women out there
should keep in mind that they are the precious gems and pearls of their husbands, and to be looked at and enjoyed by none other.

51 PostalWorker  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 5:30:50pm

[all the countries plaguing the Muslim World. ]

Heh heh. They really do think in reverse don't they. No wonder they are stuck in the 6th century!

52 Cognosus  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 5:38:29pm

#50

The British school in question already offered special uniforms for Muslim students which covered everything quite well.

I'm still trying to figure out, A, what the girl was upset with about that, and B, why the British version of the ACLU (whatever it's called; I'm sure that there is one) isn't jumping all over that as an issue of religion incorporated into government.

53 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 5:38:45pm

OT

More biased accusations by Seymour Hersh:

Israelis 'using Kurds to build power base'

Israeli military and intelligence operatives are active in Kurdish areas of Iran, Syria and Iraq, providing training for commando units and running covert operations that could further destabilise the entire region, according to a report in the New Yorker magazine.

The article was written by Seymour Hersh, the Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter who exposed the abuse scandal in Abu Ghraib. It is sourced primarily to unnamed former and current intelligence officials in Israel, the United States and Turkey.

and the quote that set me off:

According to Mr Hersh, Israel decided to step up its role in Kurdistan last summer after it was clear that the United States incursion into Iraq was failing,

It's a widely accepted fact the U.S. is failing in Iraq. Noam Chomsky and the LLL media tell us so.

asshole.

I say anything the Israelis and Kurds can do to bring down the corrupt ME dictatorships, the better off we'll all be in the long run.

54 big L  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 5:41:39pm

What happened to studying math and geometry and civics and history and learrning to read and write and spell? In my grammar school and High school, we had uniforms. It was white or blue oxford-style shirt and khakis slacks for the boys and white blouse and some kind of skirt for the girls.
End of story. We were informed we were there to learn.
It was kind of a dictatorship, I guess. But we learned and weren't distracted.

Also it is very important what Charles said about the dress issue: chipping away and slipping it in under the radar. Playing on peoples sense of fair-play, i.e. 'it is only a head covering, let her have it'.
Please go back to the toilet you fled. Do not try to make this place a toilet.

55 LtTw  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 5:41:42pm

Oh, wait! The veil(s) is *really* about expression, not oppression! (This in spite of the Qur'an's nonstance and the fact that the article's reporter actually noticed women didn't want to be named to avoid "trouble"....)

Quote:
In fact, the Quran, the Muslim holy book, doesn't require that Muslim women cover their heads, although it asks both men and women to "lower their gaze and guard their modesty."

"The idea behind that was that the sexuality of one didn't influence the other, so that men and women would treat each other like equal human beings," said Zieba Shorish-Shamley, an anthro. and Muslim feminist who heads the ... D.C.-based Women's Alliance for Peace and Human Rights in Afghanistan.

The biggest motivator for "voluntary total covering" within the "hidden culture" of Afghanistan is now to avoid gang rape by the police--including transfer between police stations *before* trial! "Adultery" almost always involves the arrest of the woman only, while rape is the female's fault; she must have "asked for it" by enticing the helpless male(s).

Remember, a woman's testimony is worth 1/2 of a man's testimony. She pleads total physical coverage in burlap, he alleges "hair rays." The court weighs the testimony: 1, he's innocent; 1/2, she's guilty. She maybe gets whipped and usually goes to jail (often for "false accusation of rape"), where she is gang-raped daily to teach her a lesson.

So the veiling decision is really a "sovereign right" at the very foundation of Islam: self-determination! (And I want to know what *that* author is smoking....)

Or what this U.S. resident's been drinking: Mo" (pbuhv) as feminist!

Quote (long, but check the attitudes):
Muhammad was a feminist. He stood for equal rights for women. ...

When I was at the Islamic Society of North America convention llast year selling my first book, there were a lot of women who wanted to buy the book. Many of them wore the head cover, and it wasn't an issue to them that I don't. But there were also young, traditional men and some older traditional men--they were a minority for sure--but they would come up and say, "Why aren't you wearing a cover? And how can you expect me to buy a book when there's a picture of you on the front and you're not wearing a cover?" And I would say, "Look, you don't have to buy the book." Meanwhile, a rumor got spread around that on a certain page of my book I wrote that the head cover is not required. So throughout the convention, young men would come up in groups of two or three and pick up the book and go right to this one page. Don't they have something better to do then to be skulking around the ISNA bazaar and gossiping to each other, "Oh my God. That author says the hijab is not required"?

Are most Muslim women covered in America?
No. Most Muslim women are not covered. I was doing an interview about hijab and the head scarf on CNN once, and they said that about 10 percent of Muslim women in America wear the head cover. I have no idea where they got that number. But based on what I've seen, I would say that statistic is pretty accurate.

But when you go to an event like ISNA, there's a lot of peer pressure to wear the head cover, because literally every woman is wearing the head cover. Probably out of all the women wearing the head cover there, less than half actually wear it every day. But it's an unspoken thing among Muslim women that when you're going to an Islamic event, you cover your head ... and the men are going to expect you to be covered....

(See? All smoke and mirrors--er, women's free choice!)

56 PostalWorker  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 5:43:11pm

Aisha:

[By encouraging others towards Islam and towards the laws of Allah, one will receive the reward of whatever good the next person practices upon.]

You might even get told to go F*CK yourself.

57 Yehudit  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 5:45:02pm

Check this out:
Why Putin made his statement.

. . . the intelligence info that Putin's talking about is real. Under normal circumstances he'd probably not be inclined to "share" it simply to help out his buddy George, unless he could net some sort of "quid pro quo." But it appears that the occupation of Iraq has netted us something of a windfall, in the form of documents hoarded by Saddam's Mukhabarat. These documents are, apparently, epic in both magnitude and scope, and they include, among other things, compromising information about certain members of the Russian elite, . . . At the recent G-8 conference it was made clear to President Putin that it would be "in his interest" to take a public stand that was of some benefit to the Bush administration. The arrangement concerning the release of this information about a possible terrorist attack on the US, by the Saddam regime, was made at that time.

Of course, the Bush folks could have released the information themselves, but it's far more politically expedient to have Putin do it. I've also heard that this is but the tip of the iceberg. There's more from the same epic source. A lot more.


bwwwaahahahahahaha....

58 Dirk Diggler  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 5:48:44pm

Anyone up for more More absurd, I mean 'shocking revelations' from Abu Ghraib...

One plaintiff, identified only as Neisef, claims that after he was taken from his home on the outskirts of Baghdad last November and sent to Abu Ghraib, Americans made him disrobe and attached electrical wires to his genitals. He claims he was shocked three times. Although a vein in his penis ruptured and he had blood in his urine, he says, he was refused medical attention. In another session, Neisef claims, he was held down by two men while a uniformed woman forced him to have sex with her. "I was crying," said Neisef, 28. "I felt like my whole manhood was gone." The class action also claims that detainees were raped in prison. On June 6, Neisef was released, after a U.S. civilian told him, he says, that he had been wrongly accused by informants. A U.S. military spokesman in Baghdad confirms that a prisoner with Neisef's ID number was released on that date, and TIME has obtained a copy of his release order. But the Pentagon would not comment on the specifics of Neisef's account.

My guess is that the 'shocking' revelations will continue until about early November.

59 AG in Houston  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 5:50:20pm

Aisha

Go find yourself a real man!

[Link: www...] {dot} muslimmatrimonialsnetwork {dot} com

60 Aisha  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 5:56:09pm

PostalWorker, that would be haraam!

It is not permissible for anyone, male or female, to masturbate. An unmarried person should control his/her desires by abstaining from all those things that enhance one’s desires.

Only such toys can be used that are not inserted in the private parts (thus ruling out vibrators etc) and it also states that such aids can be used to complement and enhance the act of intercourse and not to substitute it, thus it would not be permissible for a man to use an artificial vagina to masturbate himself.

They can only be used in foreplay, thus a person cannot use it on his/her own self, but rather it is an aid used by one partner to arouse another. Masturbation is not permissible, unless performed by the spouse.

61 WriterMom  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 5:58:47pm

Aisha!

It is like, so haram to talk about that stuff.

Allahu Akbar!

62 PostalWorker  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 6:01:50pm

#61 WriterMom

It can't help itself. It takes everything literally. Brain is in reverse ya know.

63 Dom  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 6:02:54pm

PostalWorker (#49),

Not the same. (This is registered to an "Abdullah Abdullah" and Faisal Khan in southwest London and doesn't do anything else. The address is 56, Gloucester Rd, same as for the 1924 site and Khilafah publications and Hizb-ut-Tahrir. They have a bunch of websites.)

64 WriterMom  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 6:04:11pm

Muslim foreplay...oxymoron?

Jumbo shrimp?

65 Geepers  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 6:04:12pm

Yehudit (#57),

Another reason Russia worked so hard to keep us out of Iraq.

66 [Engineer]  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 6:05:10pm

#60 Aisha/David

This is getting real old - get a life.

67 Dom  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 6:15:55pm

Engineer (#66),

I like Aisha. (OT) Talk about getting real old I had a pleasant if overlong debate today with a genuinely moderate Muslim girl about whether women who do not wear hijab are literally asking to be raped. It took a political radical to concede my point.

68 PostalWorker  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 6:17:09pm

Pretty shitty of them to soil Mindspring's trademark with islamic nutcase spew.

69 PostalWorker  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 6:19:08pm

#64 WriterMom
[Jumbo Shrimp]

ROTFLMAO

70 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 6:19:42pm

#64 WriterMom

Moderate Muslim?

71 PostalWorker  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 6:21:16pm

Holy Mecca?

72 Donna V.  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 6:34:38pm

It's hard to believe that anybody could be worse than the Nazis, but I think the Islamonuts have them topped. Even Nazis didn't (as far as I know) sexually molest their own offspring.

I'll bet many of the LLL's and media people who ignore this sort of behavior on the part of Muslims are the same people who got their panties in a twist over the obviously trumped up and false daycare/child abuse scandals of the '80's which sent a lot of innocent people to jail - because people believed 5 year old who said the daycare workers were slaughtering animals in front of them, magically flying around the classroom, holding black masses, etc.

Oh, yeah, that's believable. But Muslim abuse of children - obviously a "racist" myth.

73 grayp  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 6:41:10pm

#72 Donna V

Even Nazis didn't (as far as I know) sexually molest their own offspring.

Well, never heard about sexual molestation, but let us not forget the Goebbel children, murdered by their own mother so they would not have to live in a Fuhrer-free world.

74 Donna V.  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 7:08:11pm

Good point, grayp. And 14 and 15 year old boys were sent out to defend Berlin from the Russians (while their elders were making plans to hotfoot it to South America). However, I suspect most Nazis treated their own flesh and blood a bit better than the Muslims treat theirs.

75 Cognosus  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 7:12:28pm

#74

Mostly, as far as I know, yes. After all, the Nazis were very proud of the entire Aryan-thing, and, since their children were likely to be Aryans to the same degree, it's likely that they would be harshly disciplinic but not particularly abusive or cruel.

As for the example of 14 and 15 year olds... well, there are stories of boys as young as 15 and 16 'accidently' being allowed into the US military during that time. If the tables were reversed and a Nazi army neared Washington, then I'm sure that 14 and 15 year olds would be recruited by the US as well.

76 NY Nana  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 7:40:17pm

Speaking of Marble Arch, a little over a mile away, is a place to swarm , riot, hide weapons caches, etc: Exploring the most Picturesque & Historic parts of England

Are they now camping out in the KFC in the Cumberland, and Pret a Manger?

Last time (3 years ago) we were in the West End, the Cumberland Hotel looked like Burka Central....now, I can only imagine.

77 NY Nana  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 7:49:18pm

#53 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

And al Guardian loves it! Re Seeless Hirsch:Seymour Hersch Roundup

78 Beagle  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 9:13:09pm

It's one thing to kill you. They will sue you also.

That's just sick.

79 David 'Parisian Insider'  Sun, Jun 20, 2004 10:29:45pm

That should come as no surprise to you. Behind nearly every hijab cases in France, there are powerful extremist organisations. I remember watching a documentary in France 6 months ago. Whilst the women were claiming that they wanted to live their faith freely, did not see themselves oppressed by islam and had chosen to wear the hijab personnally, it transpired that in the background there were many long bearded guys that gave them instructions.
There was a particularly enlightening sequence. The women were preparing a 'spontaneous' pro hijab demonstration. Buzzing around were lotsa men who told them not to speak to journalists, except a few chosen 'sisters', and basically treated them like cattle. A certain weariness transpired alhough most women had been sufficiently indoctrinated not to oppose and criticize ther ruling masters working for their 'liberation'.

80 theheat  Mon, Jun 21, 2004 1:42:22am
a 'spontaneous' pro hijab demonstration

How about spontaneous hajib combustion demonstration? I want to see the hajibs catch fire so the pro-hajib whining would at least be interesting for the rest of us.

If these people spent one tenth the time trying to get up to speed with the last century or so, their clothing wouldn't be nearly so important.

81 DP111  Mon, Jun 21, 2004 2:56:09am

I knew this girl was put up to it and not just by her parents or guardians, but a mosque job. It turned out to be HuT, same difference.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Comment #482

LGFErs: How do I link to a specific comment on a specific thread?

82 J.D.  Mon, Jun 21, 2004 3:05:46am

DP111

Click on the number on the post and it will appear up top.^^^ Then highlight it and copy it as though it was any other link you would post.

83 DP111  Mon, Jun 21, 2004 3:21:10am

82 JD

Thanks JD. It was easy, once shown how.

84 DP111  Mon, Jun 21, 2004 3:27:30am

74 Donna V

However, I suspect most Nazis treated their own flesh and blood a bit better than the Muslims treat theirs.

As far as I know, the Nazi treatment of their own women ie German women, was far better then the way Muhammed prescribed for Muslim women. And yet, it is women in Western societies that seem to be enamoured with this cult of death. Whats up?

85 Jed  Mon, Jun 21, 2004 3:37:21am
Aggressively pushing for acceptance of repressive dress for women in every facet of Western life is very much a part of the strategy of radical Islam.

I wouldn't care how they dress, but these girls and women are pushed into it by threats and violence. Verbal and moral persuation are not part of the Islamic psyche. Dominence over women is. I truly feel sorry for them. Escape is impossible, and individuality and freedom of thought are verboten. Western society is paralyzed into accepting such female bondage by fear of being labelled racist.

86 J.D.  Mon, Jun 21, 2004 3:50:17am

#83 DP111
My apologies for a screwball response to you the other day. I was on my way out of town for dinner and posted in haste.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

87 JohninLondon  Mon, Jun 21, 2004 4:10:38am

Over the weekend I saw one of the books used by my eldest granddaughter - full of stuff she had had to learn and write about mosques. Basically spending as much time on that as on any form of Christianity.


Brainwashing of the young to think well of the RoP. Sentimental twaddle - I really object to the way Islam is being pushed in Britain, way ahead of any of the other immigrant religions.

88 DP111  Mon, Jun 21, 2004 4:41:12am

86 JD

Sites such as Campus watch are useful but they are working from the outside. ME and Islamic studies depts have no one within that can change them, as hiring policy is dictated by the funders such as the KSA. Some change may come about due to pressure from Congress. Stanley Kramer and Daniel Pipes have given evidence in Congress about the pernicious effects of Federal funding for these academic depts. It is a start.

89 DP111  Mon, Jun 21, 2004 4:52:42am

43 struan

KA-CHING! KA-CHING! KA-CHING!

I posted this yesterday
The Fuze Burns...

[Link: www.velociworld.com...]

Read the comment by David Gillies - An excellent example of English usage - a concealed understatement metaphor/something
------------------------
a CAIR office in Florida has been vandalised. Islamic Center's Walls Covered With Slurs

[Link: news.tbo.com...]

Really the yobs should have scrawled koranic quotations on the walls viz Waylay Jews and Christians and kill them etc..That would have been far more effective and CAIR would have no grounds for moaning and whining.

But as you say KA-CHING! KA-CHING! KA-CHING!

90 DP111  Mon, Jun 21, 2004 5:20:15am

87 JohninLondon

Its happening all over the West.

Is this a tactic of the Left to destroy liberal secular democracy as vengeance for the demise of Marxism or just naivette? I wonder.

Dont the Leftists know that if Islam truimphs in the West, they and their allies, feminists and gays will be the first who will be stoned to death or worse. I remember that the first thing that the mullahs of Iran did was to execute the naive Leftists ie the ones who had rioted on the streets of Teheran to remove the Shah. Islamists regard Leftists as godless athiests, deserving far worse treatment then Jews, Christians, Hindus or anybody else. In Islam nothing is worse then atheism and atheists.

91 ploome hineni[deleted]  Mon, Jun 21, 2004 5:37:28am
92 leo (dissident view from Berlin)  Mon, Jun 21, 2004 6:06:06am

#72 Donna V. 6/20/2004 08:34PM PST:

It's hard to believe that anybody could be worse than the Nazis, but I think the Islamonuts have them topped. Even Nazis didn't (as far as I know) sexually molest their own offspring.

see: The Nazi Persecution of Homosexuals 1933-1945

In Germany there is Fereshta Ludin who plays the same show.

The one consistent thing about these stoogewomen that go through the talkshows is, they always have some sham explanation about how this is all about their individual self-realization. They would never be allowed to tell that Sharia is more like Hotel California than like Folsom Street Fair. In an Islamic society they never would have the opportunity to even talk about individual self-realization in public. It's postmodernism at work.

93 Lizard by the Bay  Mon, Jun 21, 2004 9:08:30am

#50

they are the precious gems and pearls of their husbands, and to be looked at and enjoyed by none other.

Yes, and they'll have just as much rights to happiness and self-determination as a chunk of jewelry in a wall safe. Ain't Islam great?

94 EddieP  Mon, Jun 21, 2004 12:34:44pm

Do non-moslem western women ever convert to Islam of their own free will? Why?

95 LtTw  Mon, Jun 21, 2004 2:20:00pm

#94 EddieP 6/21/2004 02:34PM PST


Do non-moslem western women ever convert to Islam of their own free will? Why?

Good questions. Usually suave hunks and casual lies about the "afterlife" (after marriage, after childbirth, after export to the "old country," after the passports are confiscated by the man in charge....)

There are Web sites devoted to helping western women recover from converting to please their ME hubby (and MIL, extended family residing in the same home, etc.)

The courtship is always superb, and the wake-up call is always after the wedding.

Then there are those, male and female, who don't hear about the "dark side of the farce" until after they've already recited the "chant of no return." So then its a toss-up: get out and maybe get murdered, or stay in and try to keep a low profile.

Then there are the "special people" who are demonically inclined, and find Islamic terrorism gives them an outlet.

96 LtTw  Mon, Jun 21, 2004 2:24:11pm

#72 Donna V. 6/20/2004 08:34PM PST:

It's hard to believe that anybody could be worse than the Nazis, but I think the Islamonuts have them topped. Even Nazis didn't (as far as I know) sexually molest their own offspring.

They cleared out the hospitals of the sickly, crippled, and retarded, even before they started on "outsiders." Does that score as high on the scale of offspring molestation? I believe it might.

There was a lot of mysticism at the highest levels--including Hitler. Sexual abuse of offspring is often considered a way to imbue the little soul with "powers."

97 Curious  Mon, Jun 21, 2004 2:45:49pm

To all those who say that the UK is pandering to the Islamazoids, the key thing to note is that this case FAILED. In other words the UK is not there yet, and I believe is robust enough to stand against it.

(Have to fight the British corner occasionally, to counteract the bigelisation.)

I suspected right from the off that the girl was put up to this, either by her male relatives, or by some Islamist extremists or both. So it comes as no surprise to me to see that

Hizb-ut-Tahrir were involved. Their wesite is [Link: www.khilafah.com....]

This is a bunch of loonies. If you look at their website, and I've read it extensively, you'll see that a lot of their politics are wishy washy Marxism. Their standard article goes something like this:


1 The West is terrible. Look what happened in Abu Graib, look at the terrible problem of obesity (yes, really) in America, look at the problem of consumerism. This will be backed up with quotes from LLL sources, eg Naomi Klein's 'No Logo' or Michael Moore.

2 Islam is the solution.

3 In the Islamic state there would be no poverty because Islam says everyone should care for everyone else.

Pile of crap.

Applying this formula to the situation of women they will say:

1 Eeeek, look at the west, women get raped and beaten up. (Quote domestic violence statistics in the US, completely ignoring the far greater unreported DV in their own countries.)

2 Islam is the solution

3 In Islam there is no inequality because the prophet said the best men don't beat their wives and the best women are mothers.

Pile of crap.

Pile of crap.

The people who will benefit most from the decision on the Jilbab are Muslim girls, whose Neandertal male relatives would otherwise be able to put pressure on them to wear a sack. At present they wear a shalwar kamiz, which is a perfectly practical outfit for school and in no way is oppressive.

Interestingly, one of the girl's (her brother's) objections to the shalwar khamiz was that it made her look the same as a Hindu! Where was the race relations industry then??


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