Maybe the AP reporter was channeling Jayson Blair.

Hooper pointed out that a variety of Muslim businesses and charities were raided more than two years ago as part of a broad investigation into alleged terrorist financing, but that no charges have been filed against those charities.

Most times I've been fishing you let the little fish go so they can grow up into a worthy meal.

I was about to say "About damn time!" but,

Is the FBI inviting CAIR to “observe” raids these days? What the hell?

Exactly. Is MALDEF going tag along on INS sweeps now, too? I have a recurring nightmare that Political Correctness will be our downfall.

#1 Do you really have to channel a shared spirit?

At any rate, CAIR being anywhere near the neighborhood is dubious at best.

I don't think it's my imagination that the pace is being stepped up lately. I read something earlier about three foreign ships being denied entry plus there was the other story, with the (all of) 38 people with possible terrorist ties that Charles posted about a couple days ago.

#5 I heard 6 ships today.

“We’re concerned that this may be perceived in the Muslim community as a fishing expedition,” council spokesman Ibrahim Hooper said.

The big Koranic Cahuna! Reel 'em in boys! Taxedermy man gonna' faint when he sees what we 'brung 'eem!

The institute was a meeting point for a group of Islamic men who played paintball games...

Hmmm, I get the feeling that, had these been "right-wing extremists," those "paintball games" would have been "combat simulations" in AP-speak.

It just goes to show, one reporter's insurgent is another reporter's militant.

That's like inviting Nazis to watch the FBI go after a Bund Chapter...

Le Sacre du Printemps!!! Way, Charles, you rock!

Yes, "a fishing expedition." Good.

Chumming CAIR.

Maybe it was just handier to have CAIR around in the event they needed to arrest an observer.

rufusalice, I just Googled and found this: Three ships turned back from U-S ports

Where did you hear six?

Aww, come on... we need to make sure that no one gets offended. When it comesdown to national security and someonw getting their feelings hurt, CAIR and the FBI just wants to get their priorities straight.

How secure is the Department of Homeland Security? Senior Homeland Security official Faisal Gill failed to disclose that he worked for an American Muslim leader now in jail on terrorism charges.

WASHINGTON -- The policy director for the Department of Homeland Security's intelligence division was briefly removed from his job in March when the Federal Bureau of Investigation discovered he had failed to disclose his association with Abdurahman Alamoudi, a jailed American Muslim leader. Alamoudi was indicted last year on terrorism-related money-laundering charges and now claims to have been part of a plot to assassinate Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Abdullah. After a flurry of interagency meetings, however, Homeland Security decided to leave the policy director, Faisal Gill, in place, according to two government officials with knowledge of the Alamoudi investigation. A White House political appointee with close ties to Republican power broker Grover Norquist and no apparent background in intelligence, Gill has access to top-secret information on the vulnerability of America's seaports, aviation facilities and nuclear power plants to terrorist attacks.

A Department of Homeland Security spokeswoman would not comment on Gill or when he was hired, except to say that a "thorough investigation" by the department's Office of Security found no basis to deny the 32-year-old lawyer a security clearance. Among Gill's political patrons is Grover Norquist, head of Americans for Tax Reform and a key ally of the White House. Gill listed Norquist as a reference on employment documents, the government officials said. Gill also worked in 2001 for a Muslim political outreach organization that Norquist co-founded with a former top aide to Alamoudi. Norquist did not respond to phone calls, a fax and an e-mail seeking comment. The Homeland Security spokeswoman, Michelle Petrovich, declined to say what qualifications or background Gill has for his senior position in the department's Information Analysis and Infrastructure Protection division. Citing privacy concerns, Petrovich also declined to make public any of the documents Gill submitted for government employment, including his Standard Form 86, the questionnaire Gill had to fill out to receive a security clearance. "It's standard procedure across the government not to release personal background information on employees. I did check on that," Petrovich told me. In response, I read to her the Privacy Act statement that is printed on the front of the form, which can be downloaded from government Web sites. It says: "We may share this information ... with the news media and the general public when the disclosure would be in the public interest." Petrovich said: "OK, but I also have to tell you that that is trumped by Freedom of the Information Act. There's a special exception. That's a federal law." "What is trumped? "The Freedom of Information Act." "Trumps what?" "Well, I can't see what you're reading from, so I just really don't know." Through Petrovich, Gill sent word that he would speak with me "on background," meaning I could not identify him by name unless he was allowed to approve his quotes before publication. I did not agree to the conditions, and Gill declined to answer questions otherwise. The people with knowledge of the matter have been granted anonymity because they risk being fired if they are identified. Mark Zaid, a lawyer in private practice in Washington who specializes in security clearance cases, said it would be unusual for an agency to overlook omissions on a security clearance application. "Most agencies get really upset and suspicious and act antagonistically toward applicants if they find they withheld information," he said, adding that a minor violation might be forgiven. But he said if the issue concerned failing to list employment at at
"a terrorist organization or one that's being investigated, all sorts of red flags would go up." ...

#15 I'm checking. I've read so much stuff today, that I'm not sure where I read that one.

rufusalice

I've read so much stuff today, that I'm not sure where I read that one.

I know the feeling. No worries, I'm just curious.

#15 here's 5, but I'm pretty sure I saw 6 somewhere.

U.S. turns ships away from Miami
Friday, July 2, 2004 Posted: 0308 GMT (1108 HKT)

MIAMI (CNN) -- As new international security standards come into effect to help secure ports, the U.S. Coast Guard has turned away five foreign-flagged ships from the Port of Miami, a Coast Guard spokesman said Thursday

Spokesman Luis Diaz told CNN four ships were expelled and one ship was denied entry to the port because they did not have the proper paper work, thereby not meeting the new security standards that began July 1.

Ships are required to be in possession of an International Ship Security Certificate upon entering another country to guard against the use of ships in a terrorist attack.

According to Diaz, one ship was turned away from the port after being boarded by a Coast Guard inspection team and four others were expelled after undergoing dockside inspections.

The ship that was refused entry was the Bolivian flagged freighter the Dahomey Express.

The Coast Guard was unable to release any information about the other four ships that were ordered to leave the port, Diaz said.

According to a Web site for the Port of Miami, more than 9 million tons of cargo passed through the port in 2003. The Coast Guard predicted that as many as 260 foreign ships would arrive in U.S. ports Thursday, and that a few would be denied entry if they did not comply with the new regulations.

Of the estimated 260 scheduled to arrive, Coast Guard teams had already inspected about 100 of them during a pre-enforcement phase in the past few months.

The Coast Guard was expected to board the remaining 160 ships to see if the vessels were in compliance.

A few ships, which have not received an International Ship Security Certificate, will be denied entry into U.S. ports, the Coast Guard said.

Lesser actions could be taken against ships that have certificates but which are found to have security lapses, such as failing to check visitor IDs.

The Coast Guard plans to board all overseas ships on their first visit to the United States.

All your Institute of Islamic and Arabic Sciences are belong to us! Move Zig! Move Zig! For great justice!

CAIR lawyers might have been "observing" while their clients were being "not arrested."

Just a thought.

#15 I found it at Al-Reuters of all places. I feel so dirty.

WASHINGTON/LONDON (Reuters) - The United States denied entry to six foreign-flagged ships on Thursday as tough new global laws to protect shipping from terrorist attacks took effect with little overall disruption to global trade.

Now there's an oxymoron:

Institute of Islamic and Arabic Sciences

There was an extremely fascinating - and disturbing - article in the WSJ about a week or so ago concerning the murky dealings of certain Muslims in Herndon VA - Northern Virginia (Jim Moran's turf) is really a hotbed of suspicious Islamic activity.

And, worryingly, it's only a hop, skip and jump from D.C. (Except during rush hour, when it's a helluva dull crawl in a car from DC)

But most DC residents and most of the folks in Moran's district are apparently more worried about the big bad Republican in the White House than the Muslim Terrorist Next Door.

rufusalice, thanks. I'll Google again.

zulubaby

You're welcome. I guess I really have too much time on my hands and too many Krispy Kremes in reach. And it bugs me when I can't find something.

Being sensitive to the Islamic community is one thing, but inviting CAIR along is nonsense. CAIR is radical, and is going to object to raids on any Islamic organization, no matter the reason, and no matter the evidence.

CAIR OBSERVED THE RAID !!!

Fuck this noise !!

We lose.

Wheres my god damned koran ?!?!

Wheres my self inflicted hammer to the brain ?!?!

Point me out the children and women I'm supposed to kill.

I guess I'm going to have to learn god damned arabic now.

Fucking fucked up government. Inviting pedaphiles to god damned kiddie porn raids.

Ya'll just call me Osama from now on alright ? Cause if I have to be a fucking self inflicted brain damaged muslim piece of shit I wanna go big.

Untill a moment ago I would say, I have never been more proud to be an American, and I have never been more ashamed of so many Americans. But now, I don't know.

CAIR OBSERVED THE RAID !!!

Fuck all this noise people, we lose. We lost. Games over.

At least some speak out against CAIR. Y'all have probably all seen this, but just in case...

[Link: www.anti-cair-net.org...]

What the hell?

more like

WHAT THE FUCK!!!?!?!?!!!

I read something in the last week or so about cair trying to clean up its image thus eclipsing other Muslim organizations, some of which may be legitimate, clearing the way to become the Main Muslim Mouthpiece. Beware the Ides of March. Cair isn't what it would like people to think it is. Personally, I don't think a lepoard can change its spots quite this quickly.

wtf--the bada bing club was raided today-- capo tony soprano was arrested-- his uncle corrado soprano [uncle jr.] with his lawyer "don't worry" murray richmond observed the bust and said he was concerned that the mafioso community would look at this as a sleeping with the fishes expedition

I think CAIR has no intention of changing its spots, just the public's perceptions of its spots.

Maybe CAIR tagged along to observe the sensitivity training FBI agents have had crammed down their throats.
I wonder how many of these agents are simmering with almost uncontrolable anger.
I am sick and tired of having these monsters, their death cult and their thieving stinking lies forced on us.
New rope anyone?

OT...but I just heard a Lettermen bit on an ad for later tonight

Saddam in court today. He was defiant, he was angry and he was insisting he was still President. Sounds a lot like Al Gore.

:-)

But it's not very PC to point out their lies. It might hurt their feelings.

#37 Too funny! Who would have thought that Al Gore with personality would be even more gruesome that Al Gore future carrier of Dutch Elm disease?

Just Danny:

CAIR OBSERVED THE RAID !!!

Exactly. What do the Saudis have on Bush?

#40

The cofounder and executive director of CAIR are "Palestinians" from Jordan.

So the federal agents had to be CAIRful, because some of their lawyers were present.

Hopefully, the FBI will find the incriminating evidence and CAIR will be even more discredited (Randall Todd "Ismail" Royer sentenced to 20 years in prison who worked for CAIR in 1994 and from 1997 to 2001).

And then there's Bassem Khafagi, IANA founder and CAIR's "director of community relations," who, this past January, pled guilty to visa and bank fraud charges.

And also Siraj Wahhaj, CAIR advisory board member and an unindictd co-conspirator for a 1995 plot to blow up New York City monuments.

Who's next?

Ibrahim Hooper?

Nihad Awad?

Omar Rahman?

CAIR needs lawyers.

Hey, let's all jump to conclusions without knowing any of the facts.

Then we can make a bunch of half-assed conclusions based on unsubstantiated speculation.

Yeah, that's the ticket.

OT: but apropos to our earlier discussion...

The Quran mentions beheading. Why does the U.S. press claim otherwise?
By Lee Smith
Posted Thursday, July 1, 2004, at 2:10 PM PT

Following the recent beheadings of Americans and other foreigners in Iraq and Saudi Arabia, the U.S. press turned to various experts to identify a precedent in the Quran or Islamic history for this kind of gory murder. "Beheadings are not mentioned in the Koran at all," Imam Muhammad Adam El-Sheikh, co-founder and chief cleric at the Dar Al Hijrah mosque in Falls Church, Va., told USA Today. Yvonne Haddad, a professor at the Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding at Georgetown University agreed, telling New York Newsday, "There is absolutely nothing in Islam that justifies cutting off a person's head."

If reporters bothered to open up a copy of the Quran, say, N.J. Dawood's Penguin Classics translation, they'd find at least two relevant passages:

God revealed His will to the angels, saying: "I shall be with you. Give courage to the believers. I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers." (Sura 8, Verse 12)

"When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield strike off their heads." (Sura 47, Verse 4)

[Link: slate.msn.com...]

The feds are far from dumb. Maybe, hopefully, this is something like buddying up with one mobster to get the goods on a rival family.

#44

Aside from the references in the Quran, there are plenty of stories of Mohammed beheading prisoners and others that are part of the culture of the death cults.

#40 ... The Bruce ... I think that the more pertinent question would be: What do the Saudis have on two-thirds of the diplomatic corps and half of the legislative body?

Answer: $$$

$47 rufusalice

Exactly. I bring this up because a couple of days ago there was a thread about an LA Times article that said "there is nothing in the Koran that would justify decapitation."

Well, I and others sent emails to the author pointing out these verses from the Koran, but predictably, no response. Well, at least someone's paying attention.

Why in God's name the press thinks its their job to whitewash the horrors of Islam is beyond me.

#45

You're right. The Golden Chain is uber-freaky.

The Kane investigation shows that disrupting the flow of money allegedly
used to fuel terrorism and extremism is extraordinarily difficult. Funds move
around the world along convoluted paths, tended to by a vast array of players.
The line between legitimate and illegitimate activities is often blurry,
making it all the more difficult to distinguish the criminals from mere activists
and bankers.

#49

I completely agree. It is a shame that so much of the media is SO intellectually dishonest.

How about: I DON'T CAIR. It should be a bumper sticker.

#44 Abu Maven, neat link. Sounds strange coming from Slate. They also had this one in the sidebar:

John Kerry's dubious approach to religion.

Maybe they should let Richard Jewell or Stephen Hatfill observe the search as well?

The local NBC affiliate has a link (Northern Virginia Islamic School Searched) to the story which includes a slideshow of 11 pics taken from a news chopper.

It reports this about the CAIR observer:

An attorney who said he was from a Muslim civil rights group appeared on the scene to ensure that no rights were violated.

"It's as though this is some sort of anti-Muslim dragnet," said Arsalan Istikhar, of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR). "But we do have faith in the American legal system and we do feel that justice will prevail."

#53 I'll want that one as soon as I get my "Srew the UN" bumper sticker.

#56

CAIR likes to think of itself as the Muslims' NAACP.

The Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations presents itself as just another civil-rights group. "We are similar to a Muslim NAACP," says spokesman Ibrahim Hooper. Its public language - about promoting "interest and understanding among the general public with regards to Islam and Muslims in North America" - certainly boosts an image of moderation.

***

In reality, CAIR is something quite different. For starters, it's on the wrong side in the war on terrorism. One indication came in October 1998, when the group demanded the removal of a Los Angeles billboard describing Osama bin Laden as "the sworn enemy," finding this depiction "offensive to Muslims."

[Link: www.danielpipes.org...]

HEY CAIR,

Observe this:

( | )

Kiss it.
BTW, that is Rosanne Barr's ass. I don't want any islamonazi lips on mine.

An underlyng view:

Please take to heart that not all Moslems are jihadis. There can not be a "moderate Moslem" voice, or reformation of Islam until the jihadis have been beaten down forcibly, and visibly. That makes the treason of our 5th Column all the more damaging for minimizing the carnage we are inflicting upon them.

Apostasy in Islam is punishible by death. Localized Moslems can see the jihadi actions more up close and personal then we can until we have been hit. They will not push until it is safe for them to do so.

The average "Arab in the street" wants the same thing as we all do:
beer/hash/relaxants, tasty roast beast, and female companionship for the males...
wine/etc, cheese, male companionship, and unlimited phone minutes (JK!!) for the females.

Don't forget that our own Southern Bapstists (blasphemers they are) fight against booze, hookers, and gambling. Moslems can take a politcial path w/o demanding sharia in our society. Your avg. Moslem is indoctrated into these beliefs as sure as good Christians, Jews, and Hindus are.

Our most difficult task in the WOT is to enable "moderate Moslems" to be apostates and to reform Islam, or to assist in the destruction of it's current form.

CAIR, et al, are jihadi supporters, and the support therof by American Moslems should be a benchmark in wining the reformation of Islam.

Screw my spelling, as I am enjoying the benifits of several types of liquor. Please take my point in that we are fighting a propaganda war as sure as we are fighting a war of death and brutality, and I think that there is a huge pool of Moslems that can understand we fight on thier side as well as our own.

#40 The Bruce

What do the Saudis have on Bush?

That seems like a ridiculous question to me. What am I not seeing in it ? Like maybe I think its bizarre to even start to believe the Saudis 'have something' on President Bush. I just don't fall for thinking like that. Sorry.

#43 Geepers

What part of 'Cair observed the raid' seems alright to you then ? Can you imagine an instance when that would be acceptable?

Damn,

I forgot;

Our war is against Islam, not necessarily Moslems

#56 SoCalJustice  

An attorney who said he was from a Muslim civil rights group appeared on the scene to ensure that no rights were violated.

Did he just show up on his own, without the Feds inviting him? Maybe somebody from the mosque called him during the raid. Or he came along with the media.

Perhaps CAIR is just putting a self-serving spin on their appearance after the raid began.

#64 Good point.

#40 ... The Bruce ... I think that the more pertinent question would be: What do the Saudis have on two-thirds of the diplomatic corps and half of the legislative body?

Answer: $$$

I agree entirely and have written to my representatives about introducing legislation that would prevent any US official from accepting funds from any foreign entity for at least a period of fifteen years after they leave government service. The response to date has been silence.

Justdanny--I don't believe that the president is frightened of another Saudi oil embargo (pace 1974), so I ask whether he is being blackmailed. Why else would the federal government allow the enemy to monitor our law enforcement and counter-terrorism activity?

From #56 SoCal's link:

The building houses a school that teaches Arabic courses and strict Islamic studies. It has also trained dozens of chaplains for the U.S. military.

I'm smelling us/US and we sure smell fucked.

#60 Short Fat Corporal
Nothing but respect for ya , but, do you have a source or link to documentation for any of that ? Because every bit of it sounds like wishful thinking to me.

#65 rufusalice

Still, this story makes me uneasy. And I'll remain uneasy until a prime-time press conference is held by the FBI, W, and all local dogcatchers at which they all announce "CAIR sucks."

#68

The story makes me very uneasy as well. I just hadn't considered that CAIR might show up to try to look good. I rather suspect there's something rank in VA, and I would not be surprised that CAIR has their greasy little palms all in it.

#60 SFC

[CAIR, et al, are jihadi supporters, and the support therof by American Moslems should be a benchmark in wining the reformation of Islam.]

Muslims stick together like we do. i.e. "He's my bro, he might be wrong and he might be stupid, but he's my bro."

In our society this only goes for family, but in theirs, it's all family under Sharia. They have their fights, but overall they hang together, like we need to now. Damn the Democrats for wanting the presidency so bad that they will subvert the whole effort to get it.

CAIR has thrown it's allegiance to the Democrats and Kerry. The Nader thing is smoke and mirrirs.

I'd rather hang than vote for that ketchup hawking POS gigolo.

;)

I'm *not* a Republican BTW.

Charles and Friends,
Mostly I read and post anonymously, but with this CAIR post quoting "Ibrahim Hooper", I can reveal why I've been VERY reticent this last year to use my real name(s) in public:

Kerry is being abused by a known war-criminal
Dean was being abused by a moonbat ranter
and
Hooper is being abused by a jihadi anti-American symp

Bummer, Indian! These days I post as Carridine...

#66 The Bruce

Read SoCal's link. I just don't fall into conspiracy theories like what you are suggesting.

Hell I could speculate a million possible sounding things to explain away every thing I have never understood about anything.

I just don't do it. Its not beneficial or productive. It takes having a presupposed idea and then finding any possible route to what you want to believe.

I won't carry a fully hypothetical belief and then use random creations to justify it.

The Saudi-based Institute of Islamic and Arabic Sciences in Fairfax Virginia was raided today by the FBI:

Arabic sciences?

sciences???

That should have been their first tip off.

#67 justdanny

no dis took;

that is my judgement of human behavior. I cannot prove it empirically

The fact that every atrocity commited under Islam (the long list), the 90% of Palibombers that support the genocide of Israel, every butchery of Saddam et al exists proves the disfunctionality of Islam.

But I will not condone the slaughter/deportation of "normals". You catch a POS planting IED's that kill kids and civilians, and I think panties on the head is way less then my response.

From what you have seen of people you have met, colors, religons etc, do you think that all of them want to murder, rape, pillage by nature?

There are 25 mil Moslems; if they considered the current sit a "holy war", we would be buried. They don't!

Most Iraqis (moslems, even) support our presence and defense of their lives there. Again, this is not what Zogby tells me, but simply that reality. If all Moslems wanted to kill all infidels, our troops wouldn't get the treatment they genaerally get across Iraq. The 5th Column notwithstaniding, it is not a hostile reaction

I just want to make sure we stay on target in killing jihadis. That is the only way that normal humans will ever have the courage in reforming the Cult of Death

Postal Worker,

Who do you think that Iraqi exiles in Michigan will be voting for?

#73 dcbatlle

I got there before you then because I read all I needed to be suspicious at ,"The Saudi-based".

OT, but I just read though yesterday's Nader thread. Hilarious! I'm crying!

G'night all.

#74 Short Fat Corporal

Once again I have to respectfully disagree. I think we may define Muslim differently.

Mecca and Medina are the center of islam. Every muslim on earth prays to these centers of their 'faith'.

To be a devout muslim means to subscribe to the teachings of the koran and the preachings of the imams of islam.

Without fail every imam preaches the death of infidels.

What you may be speaking about, are the prisoners of islam. The children and reluctant captives of islamic countries and social groups. Not real muslims. Dont pray, dont worship, do give lip service.

You view islam as a religion, I do not. I view islam as a political idealogy. Goals of domination masked by the face of a religion.

So I guess we must agree to disagree.

Yeah, night all for me too. Its 2:15am in the Bluegrass.

#75 Short Fat Corporal

Not sure about that group, but I know I vote for Bush this year.

#81 Rayra

One thing that would help is if we start a volunteer civil defence like in WW2.

Only this time, there will be actual work for them to do.

The Washington Times did the best reporting on this incident, and has the scoop about how the CAIR "observer" ended up on the scened:

A lawyer who arrived on the scene and spoke with law-enforcement agents said authorities interviewed institute staffers individually until mid-afternoon but did not detain anyone.

Arsalan Iftikhar, director of legal affairs for the Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations, talked with federal agents after an institute staffer called him and requested that he come.

"We were called by somebody at the institute to make sure that people's due-process rights are respected ... that everything was legal," Mr. Iftikhar said.

He said his conversation with law-enforcement agents was "cordial."

A law-enforcement source said the raid might have been linked to Jaafar Idris, one of 16 persons from the institute deported from the United States in January.

Mr. Idris is a Sudanese national who held Saudi diplomatic credentials and had an office at the Saudi embassy. He lectured at the institute and espoused Wahhabism, the source said.

The law-enforcement source said Mr. Idris was president of American Open University in Alexandria and helped found the Islamic Foundation of America in Springfield, which a federal law-enforcement official said operated a school, a mosque and a prison-outreach program.

The foundation's Virginia office was visited by well-known Islamic extremists — including Sirhaj Wirhaj, a New York imam who was an unindicted conspirator in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, according to the source.

The local NBC affiliate named the lawyer as Istikhar, but they were either incorrect or that's an alternate spelling, because everyone else has it as Iftikhar.

Here's the BBC fellating him a year after 9/11:

US Muslims Find a Voice

"11 September was a wake up call to all Muslim-Americans. We need to get out there and get involved."

Arsalan Iftikhar is having dinner in one of the Turkish restaurants in Columbus with his colleagues from the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR). They have just returned from a successful convention in the nation's capital, Washington.

Thirty thousand Muslims discussing their futures post "Nine-Eleven" over the Labor Day weekend. Politics was the hottest topic of conversation.

During the last Presidential elections CAIR says Muslims flexed their political muscles for the first time. There was a block vote for George W Bush because Muslims believed they shared many of the core Republican values.

But in the aftermath of the terrorist attacks many Muslims felt let down by their president and the Republican party.

No-one doubts that 11 September shocked the nation, they say. But America reacted by introducing new laws - like the US Patriot Act - that gives the government wider powers to carry out surveillance.

So Mr Iftikhar - who at age 25 is CAIR's youngest spokesperson - says Muslims can, if they so choose, flex their muscles once again and give the Republicans bloody noses.

(#83) Me

"...ended up on the scened:"

OT again, but heck, I keep running across these priceless comments ... this one via NRO The Corner

Dick Morris on O'Reilly just now: "I would not sell life insurance to anyone who has Hillary Clinton as his running mate."

gotta love it!

78 Justdanny

ahhh, but we are so close to agreeing!

There is no argument that Islam preaches death, both to the unbeliever, and to the apostate.

There is no argument that the Koran is regarded as the "word of god", unalterable in defintion; disagreement or misinterpetation punishible by death.

but does every Moslem want to strictly adhere to the Koran, as the 5th coulmn adhers to Saddam?
I agree that Islam is a political theory ran amok.

The fallout is the "prisoners of Islam". If I am brought up as a Muslim, I only have as a counter my human nature. As a counter, I knew a devoutly sincere Baptist (yes again w/ Baptist, sorry, it's where I live :>) married woman that enjoyed some definetly non-Baptist activitie;>.

That is bit extreme, but my (hope, prayer,judegment,???) is that most Moslems might look down on infidels and shed crocodle tears when called on it, but won't actively particpte in jihad.

My major goal here is to use the apostates/moderates/"fantsay characters" to assist in either the destrucition of, or reformation of Islam.

Martin Luther did not reform Catholicism with the help of the USMC, but he did release a good chunk of christianity from the whims of the popes.

I hope that we can help those honest Muslims find a path that doesn't involve genocide on their part.

#87

Abso-f**king-lutely.

oops, took too long.

have a good one JD!

mmm..

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

all I can say is good

Sorta OT:

Using Dave Ray's post as a start, who thinks we are winning the WOT?

I do, and unless kerri and the dhimmis win out this election, I think we continue to win.

Maybe not as fast as we'd like, and despite the domestic enemies,but we are winning.

WASHINGTON/LONDON (Reuters) - The United States denied entry to six foreign-flagged ships...

Just think on this line: members of CAIR, and Saudi islamic terrorist getting beheaded by pirates because United States denied entry to foreign-flagged ships from Miami thus a pirate attack could be a way to make shark chum and lost ships but don't forget about lost ships in that part of the world, and how easy it is to be lost at sea.

World's most comprehensive free reports of daily vessel casualties & pirate attacks [Link: www.cargolaw.com...]

@60 Short Fat Corporal

via proxy of Napolean:

Your comments are bullshit. Why should we have to fight their internal religious wars so they can safely reform or act apostate in the face extreme islam. If they don't have the conjones to get up off their duffs and face the dangers of doing what needs to be done, then whatever befalls islam up to doing away with it entirely is upon them for their inactions.
Either they get up and clean their own house, or we'll do it for them with extreme prejudice and bleach.

#95 Rayra

Assuming Bush wins re-election, does he take out Syria or Iran in'05 or '06.

And considering your scenario, does vengeance fall on Islamists, or the cahattering classes?

Rayra:

Your compassion is getting the best of you.

[I've got a better idea - let's arrest all the CAIR Execs and ship their jihadist asses to Gitmo. ]

Better set them *free* ... on an open john boat in the middle of the Pacific ocean.

SFC:

Who cares, as long as it gets done.

Quark2,

are you willing to nerve gas Tehran/Damascus?

should we have invaded Nazi held France after the frogs showed so little inclination to hold their own?

i am not making my point clear - most people will not fight. Moslem or not.

i dont want to use WMD on civvies just because they submit to a murderous leadership.

and how else do we defend ourselves with an active anti-american movement within our own country?

lastly, please don't say bullshit at the BBQ...

I tear so very easily ;>

Iron Bigel???

Didn't they do Inna-Gadda-Da-Vida?

#102 Rayra

Too bad he didn't fight, and too bad he don't "try to escape" now.

heh heh. Save the world a LOT of grief and money.

We all know he is guilty, lets just off the ficker and get on with offing the next islamocreep SOB MFer.

I admire the IDF for their cheeky way of killing these bastards.

@101 Short Fat Corporal

Let me ask you a rhetorical question.
If you were fleeing for your life and the door you pounded on was that of moderate/apostate/ fearful muslims, do you think for one moment this non violent muslim would show you any compassion or allow you to enter his door? Do you think they would stop the extremist chasing you? Do you think one of these silent moderates would take a bullet for you?

And the bbq isn't bovine, it's pig. :)

Anybody see the CNN poll?

43% said Saddam couldn't get a fair trial.

Shit, the LL would be holding a fundraiser for Hitler.

quark2, don't take my last as a personal attack; rest assured I take the war on (Islamic) terror very seriously.

What I want to do is define the limits we take n pursuing the war. ' A good Muslim is a dead Muslim' doesn't wash w/ me.

Catch 'em or kill 'em; if we catch 'em, use all means to interrogate 'em. But the only holy war I want to fight is the eternal struggle for liberty, which Islam will strangle.

We will have to fight this w/ or w/o the help of "moderate muslims".
If there is a possibility of marshalling " moderate muslim" then let's use it.

Wanna tell you all right this minute

.EH...AM ...SHOCKED...that there is something unnatural..not nice...bad to the bone..going on in N. Va. with members of Islam. My goodness gracieous..heavons to Betsy.NOT TRUE..NOT TRUE...Couldnt possibly be true.

How COULD we have missed these people planning dastardly things to do to the US OF A...for???15? years maybe? Did we miss it? or did we possibly PRETEND WE DIDNT SEE IT?

Im sure we've been MISTAKEN. We have nothing to do but raid Islamic FRONTS for Terrorism..oops..not Terrorism ..CHARITY... Thats the ticket..we are unnecessarily raiding Islamic CHARITIES and SCHOOLS and nice liitle innocent COMMUNITY CENTERS.

Shame...on us. And IF we possibly can find some nesty...nesty...goings on there..well WOW..could we BE MORE SUPRISED

quark2

cross posted you.

To answer your question, I wouldn't want to bet on it. (the humanity of a random Moslem)

That doesn't mean I want to "deal with", and define that any way you want, every damn Muslim.

Do I expect 1st graders to do algerbra when their parents have taught them that math is evil?

Give me a specific situation in how to conduct the WOT, and we probably agree, but I am not willing to define Moslem=evil at this point.

Will I agree that Moslem=exposed to and taught that 2 +2 = infidel, yes.

Are the majority of US Muslims complacent to evil? yes

Should we expel ALL muslims due to religon?

Do I think there are enuff Muslims to take a harder, self-restrictive road in the WOT? to a point.

I am going to need some specific examples if I'm going to argue my point. I sure as hell don't want CAIR riding herd on the FBI, if you think that's what I'm arguing

Sorry Rayra,

Didn't think I was implying you meant that. Trust me that I wasn't.

As far as the MMM/LLL, both "institutions" are as much an enemy to the American ideal as the jihadis. They just don't kill by beheading.

@110 Short Fat Corporal

Please don't assume I want ALL muslims dead. What I want is for this cult and its' adherents out of my country.
Before 9.11 I paid no attention to islam or its members. To my dismay, I should have been very much aware of who and what they are. The only thing that caught my attention was the taliban in Afghanistan and their extreme violence against women.
When all hell does break loose, it won't matter whether the majority of muslims are innocent or not. They are going to pay a very heavy price for the actions of their brothers.

Ploome #45: thanks for posting that link. I wasn't aware it was online -read the original in the dead tree edition of the WSJ.

It's a hugely important story - and one the networks and other print media are doing a good job of ignoring.

The only print media I trust on the WoT:

the NY Post
the WSJ
the Washington Times
The Daily Telegraph (UK)
The J-Post

Pathetic, isn't it?

Potintially OT

UK profiling of asians :

The number of people from Asian backgrounds stopped and searched by police has increased by 300% since the Terrorism Act 2000 came into force

Unfortunately the LLL are already whining about it. They would rather target geriatric grandmothers.

Link

Quark2

I apologise for implying you meant that. I am getting frustrated in my own lack of ability to be specific.

If I were more eloquent, I would be able to make my point clear.

Let's assume that we remove the ROP from our land.

Do we, in the process-
A) eliminate Islam, or the potential it's adherents have to cause us harm? and to what extant do we accept collateral damage?

or

B)democratise/reform the stinkhole in which it orginates, propigates, and advocates war against us?
And do this understanding our own casulties will be higher, and our warfighting more limited.

I don't trust in the goodness of humanity, but I don't believe in our ultimate damnation either.

If we can make our nation safe, and at the same time, reform or destroy, whichever it takes, an idealogy of evil, then I am happy.

If we can do so in a manner that frees the minds of 1/4 of the world, I will be ever so much more self-rightoues.

I guess, that to better understand my viewpoint, I have to point out I was the only guy in my company that advocated war w/ China over Tianmen Square.

Everybody thought I was a nut back then too ;>

Drain the swamp! Let "moderate muslims" have their land and life back. Islam needs a "martin Luther" to reform it. Where is he?

Cool Rayra,

I only try to be an asshole towards trolls; I enjoy that even tho I break the prayer doing it.

Goodnight Quark2,

I'll advocate the legality of torture for jihadis classified as franc tiruers under Art III of Geneva any day; I wuss out in sending women and children back to the "legal protection" of sharia of their homelands.

Taint perfect, but we have more often then not bent over backwards in this country for freedom. It's harder, but that's one of the reasons I have pride in being an American.

Hate to drive by post, but this way you get the last word ;>

LLL magic keyword alert:

"The guerrilla must move amongst the people as a fish swims in the sea." - Mao Zedong

CAIR however won't tell that there's a subtle difference between piranhas and goldfishes.

The murder of this cleric is not surprising. We should be quite thankfull for his sacrafice assuming the story is accurate,however futile the attempt was.

Afgan Muslims and indeed any real Muslim views this apostates act appalling and the justice meited his way in accordance to the principles of the Quran.

The Afgans in this case cannot be blamed for following the letter of their holy book literally.

To do any less would be against the will of Allah as taught by his prophet Mohammad...or something like that.

But please, let's continue third world and Islamic immigration into Europe and America. Turkey in the EU...why the hell not! After all there is nothing short of conversion that will satisfy the total aspirations of these relentless warriors.

They should be FEARED and RESPECTED, because Islam is a force that singlhandly unified a wide spectrum of seemingly divergent peoples under one banner. The banner of Islam. For better or worse they found method of cultural survival and expansion.

The people under this yoke (From our Western perspective)seemingly, willingly accept the authority of the Quran without question. They accept the fatwas and religious edicts and declarations of jihad willingly. They may or may not act on them but they seem not to act against them either.

The freedom the followers of Islam in its truest essence enjoy,is the freedom from choice. Everything is unified into one Islamic way of life. Choice leads down the slope towards Gammorah, as Robert Bork called America`'s chosen path.

Americans, citizens of a nation... E Pluribus Unun, (Out of many one), have lost something. Call it self loathing as taught in our school or cultural amnesia brought upon by the destructive forces of uncontrolled immigration. Hertigage and nationalism and patriotism are taboo words now.

Whatever it is, the West (Non-Muslims) does not have the survival instinct the Islamic world has with its long memories and deep convictions. No atomic weapon is more distructive than a society which willingly chooses suicide through PC and multi-culturalism.Who will fill the void...the strongest will...Islam.

The forces of Islam in any form, moderate, radical, militant, even non-chalant, are stronger than any weapon of mass distruction. Because it is a force of UNIFICATION and PATIENT PERSISTANCE, willing to be barbaric when necessary and always encroaching, conquering retreating and reforming, but always policing their own, as was the case of this unfortunate Cleric--never allowing for what we would call "reform".

Muslims of course are well within their right to consider the Quran as the product of divine revalation and as such perfect.It is their right and their religion for 16 centuries. Any so called reform would be apostacy, pervision of the message of the Prophet and non-Islamic.

Reform is a notion that the Islamic world must necessarily reject as they always have, because as Mr. Spencer was told in resopnsise to the question of reform in Islam... "So you want us to stop being Muslims..".

The choice is clear. Islam is the most dynamic, prostylizing, imperial unifying forces on the planet. In the case of the West as represented by the Big Satin and Eurabia, their self loathing, PC and internal rot has produced a multi-cutural model that is Balkinzing and fragmenting. Immigration reform is key, not winning hearts and minds and one way cultural exchange.

--Democracy and the idea of a Republic held together by the rule of law and the social contract indeed has its obvious limitations in the age of globalization and mass migration.

Muslims it seems, are willing to surrender some measure of their freedom willingly for the body politic...so they cannot lose in the transformation of the world to Islam. Unlike the citizens of the Soviet state or America, who yearned for freedom, they will not accept our notion of freedom and wont allow for it to take root.Cleric's throat Slit

#117 kehenry1

Better no Luther, would probably make things even worse ... ever read Luthers "On the Jews and their Lies"?

Let them have a Calvin instead...

OT: I just woke up from a nightmare. I dreamt Al-Qaeda or some other group, had succeeded in taking out the Capital, during a session when most reps were there ...

CAIR is suing anti-CAIR, and will be "forced" to reveal all of its ties to terror, foreign trips, foreign contacts etc... [Link: www.anti-cair-net.org...]

...

Ok..Calvin as the reformer. Anybody for g-d sake!

These ass wipes need to get their shit together!

Ok..all cursing aside...reform is necessary or it will be destroyed just as the catholic church was (is) on the verge of destruction.

OT - Charles, sorry about the bandwidth banditry but I thought maybe you and others might be interested in this article which appears in today's WSJ and may not have access. I have edited portions in the interest of fair use. The U.S. Cavalry

The Secretary of State's visit also throws a spotlight on another unfortunate global reality. Once again the world is calling on the U.S. to stop a horror that the United Nations and everybody else have failed to act against. The killing of black Muslim tribesmen by government-backed Arab militias has been going on since February of last year. But while the world's moralists are in full cry about the threat of "another Rwanda," no one sees fit to actually do something. No one, that is, except the U.S.

U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan has been raising the alarm about Darfur -- and he also visited there this week -- but not until two weeks ago did the Security Council call for an immediate halt to the fighting. This being the U.N., the resolution was toothless.

Permanent members China and France are worried about jeopardizing their business interests in Sudan. Pakistan and Algeria, which hold temporary seats, refuse to impose sanctions on a fellow Muslim nation even as it is engaged in the mass killing of Muslims.

The ostensible reason for Europe's reluctance to pressure Sudan on Darfur is fear of torpedoing a peace deal between Khartoum and the south, where government forces have been slaughtering and enslaving Christian and animist Africans. But Europe's concern is rich with hypocrisy. That conflict, in which some two million people have died, has been going on for 21 years -- while Europe watched.

A better measure of Europe's concern about Darfur was evident at the recent European Union summit, where one has to turn to page 18 of the summit conclusions to find a small paragraph about Darfur. The most forceful language the EU could muster was "deep concern" regarding Sudan's "humanitarian crisis," as if what is happening in Darfur is a tragic act of nature rather than a rampage by murderous, ruthless men.

If Europe won't come to the rescue of the people of Darfur, how about their fellow Muslims? The Arab League statement at its May summit didn't mention Darfur at all. Instead, it reaffirmed "the Arab states' solidarity with the sisterly Republic of Sudan, and their determination to preserve its unity and territorial integrity." Kamel Labidi explains the Muslim world's moral failure in a related column.

Nor, alas, can the Sudanese people expect much from their fellow Africans. It was the Africa bloc at the U.N. that played a key role in the farce that resulted in Sudan's re-appointment to the U.N. Human Rights Commission in May. Sudan's fellow Africans also helped undermine a resolution in April designed to appoint a special human rights rapporteur for Darfur. Yes, the African Union is leading a group of observers to monitor a cease-fire that has yet to take hold. But it is sending a grand total of 120 troops -- including a munificent contribution of six from Europe -- to monitor a region the size of France.

The real problem, as everyone knows but no one will admit, is Sudan's murderous regime. But Mr. Annan and company can't abide regime change, and in any case the U.S. military is too preoccupied to make that happen. That means we're left with diplomatic pressure and visits like Mr. Powell's, which are better than nothing but don't solve the long-term problem.

It is fashionable these days to express distaste for American "unilateralism" and "hegemony." The unfolding catastrophe in Darfur offers a chilling view of what the alternative really looks like.

#26 Donna V

Muslims in Herndon VA - Northern Virginia (Jim Moran's turf) is really a hotbed of suspicious Islamic activity.

And, worryingly, it's only a hop, skip and jump from D.C. (Except during rush hour, when it's a helluva dull crawl in a car from DC)

If they bomb Baltimore instead, do they get tax breaks for positive urban renewal?

Semi-OT

France and Germany not kissing Islamic butt fast enough?

al Qaeda warns Europe truce almost over.

Of course, this is the abu Hasselhoff Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigades , and I think they claim responsibility for black outs and the such, but they may know something.

Sorta OT:

Islamic terrorists threaten Europe.

The Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigades warned of further attacks unless Europe withdraws troops from Muslim countries, says the London-based Asharq al-Awsat.

The richest paragraph is this:

Those [muslims living in Europe] who cannot [go back to muslim countries], should take precautions and live in Muslim areas, have enough food to last a month, find ways to protect themselves and their families, leave enough money in the house to last one month and to pray a lot and put their fate in God's hands," it added.

I cannot appoint myself as speaker for the whole of Europeans, but my answer is:

STUFF IT, AND COME GET SOME IF YOU DARE...

129

Last one in is a rotten egg.

Sorry, something from my childhood that may not translate well into European.

Are you in the UK or Italy? Although I suspect it might be easier for al Q to strike in France or Greece, I suspect they'd love to do another Madrid in a country helping to liberate Iraq.

London, living a bit off centre. And I don't take the Tube - not for fear, but for my needs the bus is more practical.

A piece about training with terror-enablers the ISM:
[Link: www.frontpagemag.com...]

More fascism in China. Now they're reading your text messages. But it's okay. Its hard to see how that will stop you from making money, so nobody cares.

Meanwhile, back here, Bill Cosby has said something I've been thinking for the last few years. He's disgusted with the use of the N-word in the movies over and over again. And, he doesn't like the violence against women there, either. I would consider someone coming out against the N-word supportive of 'the Black community'. Not CNN. They take it as an attack:

Bill Cosby has more harsh words for black community

#126 aboo-Hoo-Hoo

Thanks for posting that.

#133 Luigi

I have always had a great deal of respect for Bill Cosby. In his "Fat Albert" and "The Cosby Show" work, his honest concern for the betterment of people always came though, and he is still working to set the bar high and challenge people to better themselves. Good for him.

OT: Revising French text books to remove the 'distortion' of Islam.

Debka file is going on a 9 day vacation.

Does this mean all will be quiet, or does it mean something scary will happen in Debkaland, where ever that may be?

133 Luigi

Bill Cosby has said something I've been thinking for the last few years. He's disgusted with the use of the N-word in the movies over and over again.

My word, Bill Cosby sounds like...AN ANTI-IDIOTARIAN! Think about the problems and hysteria this is going to cause at the editorial department of the LA TIMES. I'm sure, end the end, he will be written off as just be another tool of the evil Bushitler.

OT: Howard Stern says he'll "work like a dog" to encourage his loyal listeners to vote for John Kerry. Well, I guess Kerry has the anal sex lovers/hot lesbian chicks with breast implants/farters/Bababooey-dissers vote all locked up

In a time of a terrorist war against us, the US should allow itself the option of fishing for terrorists.

The FBI is so scared of its shadow that it brings along CAIR lawyers to stamp its raids as hallal.

The courts have to discover that we are in a war that has been thrust upon us. If they do not wake up to that fact, then the cost will be paid in more blood at some time in the future.

OT Michael Ledeen on a proper policy toward Iran:
[Link: www.jpost.com...]

Regime change in Iran can probably be accomplished without firing a single bullet...

.. the explanation for Iran's action: the mullahs are determined to strike at Iraqi oil production, and they don't want an efficient detection system in the area... It's because they are desperate to swing the upcoming American presidential elections against George W. Bush, and they think that if they can get oil prices up to, say, $60 a barrel, that might do the trick.

#137 Ed:
I saw that "see ya later" notice, too.
Withdrawal symtoms here.

134 a soldier's dad

my pleasure.

OT - In other islamic news, Yemen scholars and cleric's are appealing to both the government and people to halt operations against the self-proclaimed Iman and new Hizbullah branch leader, Hussein al-Hothi; bringing that cesspool closer to civil war - Enough bloodshed! (against our brother terrorists, turn it against the evil crusaders.)

#139 scaramouche

As much as I disagree with Howard Stern on election 2004, don't underestimate his ability to influence: George Pataki is Gov and Christy Todd Whitman was Gov due in part to Howard's 'voting block' -- a block with demographics that would probably surprise you: male, college educated with income in excess of $100,000 (that's nationally). The election in 2000 could easily have gone the other way if he had asked his listeners (21 million) to do what he's asking them to do now...(unfortunately).

Today, The BBClime reported that there has been a 300 % increase in stop and search of Asian Britains (Pakastanis).

The government said the increase in police stoping young Asian Britons is "Unacceptable"and will be invistigated. One "Asian"was reported as saying, he was stopped once and asked to produce ID. The officer then checked his name in computer and let him go, but he FELT harrassed.

But I thought the muslim community was willing to assist in law enforcement.

EE (#140),

The FBI is so scared of its shadow that it brings along CAIR lawyers to stamp its raids as hallal.

Actually no they're not.

See SoCalJustice's post #83

"We were called by somebody at the institute to make sure that people's due-process rights are respected ... that everything was legal," Mr. Iftikhar said.

This is what I was talking about as to "jumping to conclusions".

So instead of being glad that the FBI raided CAIR, we devolve into bad mouthing the Feds, trying to figure out what dirt the Saudis are "blackmailing" GW with and hollering:

We lose.

Wheres my god damned koran ?!?!

Point me out the children and women I'm supposed to kill.

Fucking fucked up government. Inviting pedaphiles to god damned kiddie porn raids.

Untill a moment ago I would say, I have never been more proud to be an American, and I have never been more ashamed of so many Americans. But now, I don't know.

CAIR OBSERVED THE RAID !!!

Fuck all this noise people, we lose. We lost. Games over.

Is this LGF: The site that fact checks your ass or LGF: The home of hysterical unfounded conclusions?

Sheez.

The F'ing Fwrench! Damn them to hell! This is from the story, France’s everlasting love for the PLO. Re: the fwrench ministers visit to arafish this week,

He also conveyed a message of solidarity with the Palestinian people in these very difficult times, mainly caused by the Israelis. “These are not only words but also concrete actions such as the cooperation agreement between France and the PA.”

If that wasn't an open declaration of alliance and war against Israel and the U.S., I don't know what is. Any lingering itsy, bitsy, teeny weenie doubt I had about the fwrench not being an enemy just went *poof*

Gross,

British taxpayers are coughing up £30,000 to pay someone to wipe Abu Hamza's arse for him.

[Link: www.sky.com...]

OT - Israeli Invention Sees Through Walls.

Sure beats the electric prayer rug, IMHO

#146

I read the same article...

It's the same old story: 90% of the terrorists and supporters in these days are Muslim - mainly arabs and south asians, but anything barely resembling "profiling" is regarded (by the lefty/PC crowd) as intolerable racist oppression.

I'm not very comfortable with ethnic profiling policies, but something must be done.

OT:
Karl Zinsmeister has some positive realites to report in Iraq, along with some historical perspective

The Shiite middle that is going to dominate Iraq has stuck with us through many travails. An encouraging interim government is beginning to take responsibility for the country's fate, with wide support from everyday Iraqis. An economic bloom is unfolding. There is a surge of new information, freedom, and opportunity never before seen in Iraq. These plants will bear previously unseen fruit in the parched sands of greater Arabia, and ultimately make America safer.

Has the price been too high? The casualty rate in Iraq, Max Boot has noted, has been 1.5 percent of all troops serving in the theater. That compares to 6.2 percent in Vietnam, and 6.5 percent in World War II. The terrorists, though, believe modern Westerners have lost the fortitude needed to sustain a nasty fight. "One thing is for sure: the extremists have faith in our weakness," noted Tony Blair recently. "And the weaker we are, the more they will come after us."

Right, I'm with you. The PC culture is a weapon in the arsenal of tyranny.

BTW, I heard this on BBC radio today and almost projectile hurled when the report finished by quoting British government officials who called the tren "Unacceptable".

AGAIN, as I type this, the same mantra...Britons of "Asian" descent stoped and checked... is again on the Beeb.

What is a Briton of "Asian "descent mean? Asian to me has always implied China or Japan. Asian geography apparantly includes Pakastan, but it seems misleading...

Also, the term Britons of bla, bla.. implies that just because someone holds some passport or is involved in the immigration process they are majically a Briton.

Being British or American or Japaneese is not a matter of immigration status pending or recently attained. Being so is a question of allegiance.

link
[Link: www.nationalreview.com...]

Charles:

Have you seen this?

President Bush Devoring the Head of a Child

According to the site www.pleasevote.com,

The website [Link: www.pleasevote.com...] is a call to vote the Bush administration out of office. The sculptor Richard Serra contributed the "Stop Bush" illustration that appears on the site's home page. The image will also appear on the back cover of The Nation magazine, cover date July 19 - July 26, 2004 (double issue).

PageSix.com has the story "Demon Art".:

A SHOCKING image of a blood-spattered President Bush devouring a headless child is causing an uproar. The drawing by sculptor Richard Serra, based on a painting by Goya, is being used to promote pleasevote.com, billed as "a call to vote the Bush administration out of office." It appears on the back cover of The Nation's July 5 issue. Ironically, Serra, a past recipient of NEA grants, was once praised by First Lady Laura Bush in a White House press release about one of his pieces at a Texas museum. His "Tilted Arc" once graced (or defaced) Federal Plaza in lower Manhattan until it was destroyed in 1989. Pundit Andrew Sullivan labeled the Bush image "an obscenity" and "simple demonization."

The Left slips further and further into the nadir. Just when I think the can't sink any lower, they dig.

Short Fat Corporal=Corporal Shiklegruber.

153 andrew2

In the UK, the term "asian" when used to describe an immigrant or their descendents means basically from the Indian Subcontinent. So from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh or Sri Lanka.

Chinese or Vietnamese would be called "oriental" I guess.

#147 Geepers
I was wrong in my speculation as to what happened. Thanks for pointing it out.

As I understand it now, the organization that was raided, the Saudi institute, summoned CAIR lawyers to safeguard their rights during the raid. That is their right.

And Geepers, you do good work in correcting errors and challenging assumptions and speculations and judgments that are way off the mark.

British taxpayers are coughing up £30,000 to pay someone to wipe Abu Hamza's arse for him.

I guess the pay was too low to attract George Galloway. Oh, I forgot, he doesn't wipe terrorist arse, he kisses it.

Really - Wiping Capt. Hook's butt must be The Worst Job In The World.

EE (#158),

Thanks. One of the reasons I like LGF is the communities ability to cut through the BS with reason and rational insight. Like you do.

(And yeah, I said the FBI raided CAIR, just to see if anyone would notice. :-P) You did, and unlike me at times, were polite in your response. You do us all a lesson in civility. Kudos to you.

#148- from the article-

Then he went on to deliver a “message of truth” to Arafat telling him: “Time is of the essence and if nothing is done, France will soon be all alone as the only country supporting you.”

Almost died laughing at that. I'm sure Arafat is just sooo comforted by that. France is on his side!

In the UK, the term "asian" when used to describe an immigrant or their descendents means basically from the Indian Subcontinent. So from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh or Sri Lanka.

Chinese or Vietnamese would be called "oriental" I guess.

I know that I've seen "East Asian" used by UK speakers to specify someone from (say) China or Vietnam, who would more likely be called simply "Asian" by a US speaker.

I get the impression that "oriental" has the same not-a-slur, but-not-quite-PC status in UK English as in American English -- maybe vaguely comparable to the status of "Negro," a once-proper term that has gone out of vogue.

#89 Short Fat Corporal

Once again, respectfully. I see so much gray area in your ideas of about 'moderate muslims'. I prefer to, for the sake of accuracy, cut a clear line between what a devout muslim is and what a devout muslim is'nt.

The dictates of islam are very clear as presented by all of its most respected and most honored imams, mullahs, clerics, muftis, so on and so forth. Hence I believe I know what it is because it is defined clearly by its leaders. It is by its own admission a cult of death to all of its non followers, kufirs, infidels, non believers, people of the book.

I see what you describe as a fabrication. A wishful recreation of islam into a peaceful, liberal, non threatening entity. Wanting from inside this cult of death a new thing to arise that is in no way representative of what islam truly is.

Apostates are not muslims. Muslims are not moderates. You want reform of a system which is lock stock and barrel an unreformable system. Wanting someone to redefine language which is clearly defined. A definition which insists upon death cult political idealogy status.

I want islam contained. Restricted to areas where it cannot infect or kill non muslim populations. I do not want the bigel solution. I do not want nukes to fly all over the ME. I believe only through containmet can it be denied its goal of death to all non muslims.

I also believe that if it can be contained and disconnected from all that is not islam, it will collapse onto itself. Once it is clear to all of its unwilling unfortunate prisoners that it must be ended, only then will the self imposed destruction of it begin. Only them will it "reform".

#160 Geepers
Thanks

#147 Geepers

I am not LGF. I did freak the hell out, you are right. I did run with a quick conclusion and get angrier than hell, you are right.

But I had no part of,

trying to figure out what dirt the Saudis are "blackmailing" GW with

Geepers--your point is what I was trying to say (far less articulately) in #24.

#156 sefton "Short Fat Corporal=Corporal Shiklegruber."

Is there something I don't know about Short Fat Corporal ?

justdanny (#165),

Sometimes it takes a lot of effort not to see the worst of a situation, especially here, where for the most part, we are immersed in negative news .

It can seem over whelming and I surely don't blame anyone for "going off the deep end", I've done it. We all have.

We just need to keep our perspective.

"Islamic and Arabic Sciences"

Is that like "Amish Tech Suport"?

cba (#166),

Sheez, more articulate than you?! What was I just saying about not resorting to hyperbole? ;-)

No really, Thanks.

#169 Dan:
Yes, but without the wit or humour.

Excuse me you all: The FBI and CIA sat on their behinds for years and YEARS while IslamISTS opened entity after entity as Fronts for Terrorism in Northern Va.

In some places in N. Va. I have heard that the local law too is bought off by our little ME friends. So serious is the corruption out there in several of the little townships that unless you get permission from VERY hi up you cant do a FUCKING thing about law breaking of Arab/Islamists in N. Va. (they got away with planning Terrorism, laundering money, etc etc AND also get away with usual Lawbreaking)

[ought to hear OTHER Immigrants and how they talk about what the Arab Immigrants are able to get away with--they dont like it a bit]

I think one of the places where Arabs have a strangle hold on Va is Herdon...Those from N. Va..correct me if I have it wrong about Herdon.

#168 Geepers

These are things I understand, I really do, honestly I do.

As new info became available I simmered down. One day I can take it all in stride and keep my wits about me. Other days I feel surrounded by sharp pointy things and I tread very carefully.

I suppose verbally I am a lot more likely to vent anger quickly.

I have heard stories about our government intel agencies that strain any reason I might have to trust they are competent.

This story initially seemed to aggravated my distrust of their abilities.

I have'nt announced my position at the "kiddie table" here so many times for nothing.

All:

On good days, I like to think the government, particularly the FBI and CIA, know exactly who the enemy is, but they can't say so, because the religion within which the criminal element hides is protected by the first amendment (which it is).

On bad days, I think our reflexive inability to see that these are Nazis hiding behind scripture, because of that scripture, means we are doomed.

I see that same trajectory in many of us, and on this thread it has played out both ways.

MMM = Moderate Muslim Majority?