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French Citizen Held in Poland Terror Probe

Thu, Aug 19, 2004 at 7:38:57 pm PDT

Poland is one of the US’s more visible supporters in the War Against Radical Islam, so this story should come as no surprise. The Islamists are planning mass murder to intimidate our allies: French Citizen Held in Poland Terror Probe. (Hat tip: MakeMyDay.)

WARSAW, Poland - A French citizen has been arrested in western Poland and was being investigated as a terror suspect after he was caught taking pictures of a natural gas distribution plant, officials said Thursday.

The man, identified as Michael N., 23, is being investigated by prosecutors in the western city of Poznan on charges of planning an attack that could threaten the lives of many people, an offense punishable by up to 10 years in prison, said spokeswoman Urszula Kula.

He was arrested Friday after being spotted by railway workers hiding in the grass taking pictures of Poland’s largest natural gas distribution plant in Swarzedz, in western Poland, Kula said.

“Other evidence gathered in the investigation so far justified the charges and the arrest,” said Dariusz Bogaczyk, spokesman for the Poznan branch of Poland’s internal intelligence agency.

UPDATE at 8/19/04 8:42:04 pm:

Expatica has a crucial detail that the Associated Press thinks needs to be hidden from you:

The suspect is of Algerian origin, according to Poland’s Fakt newspaper.

(Hat tip: SoCalJustice.)

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309 comments

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1 Iron Fist  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 5:41:44pm

Of course the damn frog was hiding in the grass.

(I know, cheap shot :-)

2 Iron Fist  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 5:44:45pm

[Dark, malevolent laughter]

First.

Anybody got a problem with that?

[Demonic cackling]

3 Jewels (AKA Julian)  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 5:47:07pm

so much for EU Unity

4 TimK  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 5:47:27pm

How harsh will the questioning of this fine young man be?
Will the French Govt. step in to make sure that no real harm comes to him?
Will we hear any protests from the various Muslim civil rights groups of France?

5 TMF  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 5:47:55pm

#2

Yes, as a matter of fact, I do have a problem with that.

/John "Chevalier" Kerry

6 ballantrae  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 5:50:12pm

heh heh heh .... that SOB is dead. For whatever flaws they have, one thing is for sure, Poles don't @#$# around when they're pissed.

I almost feel sorry for the .... ROTFLMAO who am I kidding? HAHAHAH! I love it!!!!!!

-ron

7 Andrew B.  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 5:52:41pm

go get em Poland!!!!

as they say in Polish...

Dobja...Dobja!!!

Much respect to the Polish intelligence for getting on the ball against terror...but the real thanks goes out to the eyes of great citizens that brought this freak in.

Andrew B.

8 SoCalJustice  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 5:58:24pm

I promise I'm not trying to horn in on a hat tip here, but I posted this story yesterday, and the only reason I'm bringing it up is because that AFP story mentions a rather important detail that this AP story omits (for whatever reason):

The suspect is of Algerian origin, according to Poland's Fakt newspaper.
9 Ed Moran: Abu GOMEX aoa 28C  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 5:58:50pm

The version of this story I saw yesterday identified him as a Frenchman of "North African" ethnicity.

10 Eric Blair  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 5:59:32pm

I wonder if Michael N. knows the correct answer to the question, "Are you a grypsman?"...

11 Ed Moran: Abu GOMEX aoa 28C  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 6:00:29pm

Re: My Post #9

Yes, I read SoCalJustices link.

12 Axiom  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 6:04:19pm

Nothing to see here. Prolly just another Buddhist.

13 Saeel  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 6:06:49pm

I don't know of many North African guys named Michael. Gee, what do you tink the chances are that his real name is Mohammed?

14 Craig Abu Al-Boo-Boo  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 6:07:31pm

It's been a while since I said this:

Salope Marianne, putain de merde!

15 Saeel  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 6:07:56pm

tink = think (unless you're Colonel Klink)

16 Saeel  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 6:08:43pm

#14 Craig

Qui est Marianne?

17 selpaw  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 6:09:01pm
War Against Radical Islam

Wow, you said it Charles. And that is *exactly positively* what it is.
War against Racical Islam, plain and simple.

Now we should forever throw that horribly misleading, cushy - touchy feely sentence war on terror straight in the garbage! Along with the PC police where they both belong, I might add.

Next step -----> RoP. If we break that myth, we will be on our way. Of course that requires nothing short of frontal lobotomies on most of the population ; -((


prison
French citizen
an offense punishable by up to 10 years in prison

Not enough but I'll settle for that. Gosh, I sure hope they can hold the bastard. No mistakes.

18 Ed Moran: Abu GOMEX aoa 28C  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 6:10:34pm

13


I don't know. Since the Muslims seem to incorporate a lot of the Jewish and Christian religious figures into their "faith", ("Musa" for Moses, "Ibrahim" for Abraham, "Issa" for Jesus (which is a Latinization of Yeshua, IIUC), "Jibreel" for Gabriel, odds are decent that there is an Arabized/Islamic form of the name "Michael".


Or maybe he did change his name to avert suspicion.

19 Frank IBC  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 6:11:51pm

From an earlier edition of this article:

the holy city of Poznan

Andrew B.

as they say in Polish...

Dobja...Dobja!!!

Er, "Dubya"? :)

20 Frank IBC  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 6:14:11pm

#18 Ed M. -

It's "Mika'il".

21 Dar ul Harb  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 6:15:49pm

#8, SoCalJustice:

Gee, and I was about to ask if the suspect was of "origin maghrébine"...

22 Frank IBC  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 6:16:08pm

Ed M. -

And "Y'shua" is the Aramaic cognate of "Yehoshua" - "Joshua" in English.

So the Holy Family would have been "Joshua, Miriam, and Joseph".

23 Frank IBC  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 6:18:14pm

I'm just been reading "Raid on the Sun", about Israel's raid on the reactor at Osirak. F**k Chirac a thousand times.

24 Dar ul Harb  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 6:19:08pm

#19,

So "dobja" means "go get 'em!" in Polish. No wonder the Poles are on our side!

Go get 'em, Dubya!

25 Beagle  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 6:23:49pm

#23 Frank IBC

Love at first sight

26 freedomsound  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 6:25:12pm

Another one caught taking pictures. Plus the two I read about last week. Hmm, I am feeling better and better about chasing that guy in Jersey who was taking pictures around Meadowlands Arena while driving.

27 Elcid  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 6:34:09pm

Iron Fist

Of course the damn frog was hiding in the grass.


Could be the frogs were hiding in Lily Pons , Ponds...ummm Pads, whatever. They alway hide, screw 'em.

28 zulubaby  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 6:36:18pm
The suspect is of Algerian origin

You don't say.

29 William  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 6:39:21pm

Islamic terrorist Abdel Rahim (aka "Richard Reid") sues prison:

DENVER, Colorado (Reuters) -- "Shoe bomber" Richard Reid has sued U.S. prison authorities for imposing harsh conditions including isolation and a lack of access to Arabic language religious books.

Reid is serving a life sentence for attempting to use explosives in his shoes to blow up an American Airlines flight from Paris to Miami three months after the September 11 attacks.

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

No scare quotes for Reuters around "harsh conditions" and they hide Abdel Rahim's name, like the rest of the "mainstream" media...
 

30 MakeMyDay  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 6:39:47pm

Thanks for the hat tip, Charles!

SoCalJustice, I didn't mean to, sorry... :-(

31 Craig Abu Al-Boo-Boo  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 6:40:31pm

#16 Saeel

#14 Craig

Qui est Marianne?


A hooker with a heart of lead.

32 SoCalJustice  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 6:45:11pm

(#30) MakeMyDay

Hey, no apologies necessary at all!

The hat tip gods (pbut) have been very good to me as of late. ;-)

33 William  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 6:47:11pm
The suspect is of Algerian origin, according to Poland’s Fakt newspaper.

Hmmm, Algeria:

"Religions: Sunni Muslim (state religion) 99%"
[Link: www.cia.gov...]
 

34 SoCalJustice  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 6:47:49pm

And I swear I posted #32 before I saw the update.

Thanks, Charles.

35 selpaw  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 6:49:29pm
The suspect is of Algerian origin, according to Poland’s Fakt newspaper.

So damn typical of AP! They can fool themselves and they can fool most of the world... (who want to be fooled) however, they can not fool everyone.

Take a Pen.......The AP - The Associated Press - is THE LIAR OF THE MONTH July 2004!!!
36 justdanny  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 6:52:14pm

From That earlier story about this someone mentioned above.

"We had sufficient information at our disposal to be able to arrest him for three months,"

He "was arrested Friday while he was cycling around the pumping station at Swarzedz and taking photos of the site,"

he is suspected of "having prepared the ground to blow up the pumping station".

In July, a group claiming links with Al-Qaeda threatened an attack unless Warsaw withdraws its troops from Iraq.

37 justdanny  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 6:54:21pm

Weird, me too, I swear ..

38 Judith  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 6:55:00pm

Just checked BBC after a long hard day at work and the Americans are bombing the hell out of Najaf and Falujah according to BBC.

Imagine what would happen if Israel tried that?

About time.

39 crown_of_feathers  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 7:02:42pm

#23 Frank

"I'm just been reading "Raid on the Sun", about Israel's raid on the reactor at Osirak. F**k Chirac a thousand times"

Don't you just love the photo of the younger Jacques Shitrag cozying up with Saddam? That man is truly, truly despicable. I started reading the book, and it made my blood boil, as it obviously did yours. No wonder Chirac hates Israel and the Jews...they destroyed Osirak - the crowning work of Chirac's nefarious relationship with Saddam.

40 RightIsRight  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 7:02:58pm

OT

Do those female gymnasts wear some kind of she-cup?

Not that I was looking in that area...

41 Fay  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 7:04:06pm

#29 William:

"Shoe bomber" Richard Reid has sued U.S. prison authorities for imposing harsh conditions including isolation and a lack of access to Arabic language religious books.

He can read? From what I can remember of the news coverage, neither he nor any other member of his immediate family, not could together a put sentence coherent.

42 selpaw  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 7:07:26pm

Hi Judith. Glad I found you. You have some replies on The Saudi Missionary Project thread. If you have time you might want to check.

43 Roger L. Simon  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 7:11:00pm

In fairness, that was Expatica that told the truth about the Algerian origin of the alleged terrorist. It was Agence France Presse. Therefore we must ask why AP withholds information that AFP doesn't?

44 evariste  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 7:14:24pm

Roger L Simon, could it have to do with the fact that the French press may be more willing to name an Algerian terrorist than the American press is? The French have dealt with Algerian terror for a long time so it probably doesn't have the pc connotations that mentioning an Islamic country of origin our own media avoids so assiduously.

45 William  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 7:18:50pm

First the Dems threatened television stations against running the SwiftVets television ad, now they want to suppress the book "Unfit for Command," which represents the views of 256 Swift Boat veterans:

Salon.com
Aug. 19, 2004

The Kerry campaign has told Salon that the publisher of "Unfit for Command," the book that is at the center of the attack on Kerry's military record by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, is retailing a "hoax" and should consider withdrawing it from bookstores. "No publisher should want to be selling books with proven falsehoods in them, especially falsehoods that are meant to smear the military service of an American veteran," said Kerry campaign spokesman Chad Clanton.

[Link: www.salon.com...]

Any word from the Democratic National Committee on the anti-American and anti-Bush propaganda film "Fahrenheit 9-11"?  Oh yes, they invited the film's "director" Michael Moore to sit in Jimmy Carter's skybox at the Democratic National Convention...
 

46 ibu guru  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 7:27:39pm

This news deals a death sentence to every "dumb Pole" joke ever told. The Poles are using their heads.

It's the dumb Americans who let spies and terrorist scout their targets, videotape them & get blueprints, then let them get away with defenses like "he's just a home movie buff who wants to show the sights to his family back home."

Sometimes I think a third of this country is congenitally deficient and another third sound asleep... arrgghh!

47 dazoid81  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 7:37:16pm

#45 - William

I was in a Borders earlier today, and noticed that I didn't see it... at the very front I saw Bill Clinton's book facing the door, with the 9/11 report and Tommy Franks book on the opposite side of the stand facing away from the door where it's most likely to be seen by people walking out of the store... I was only in the store for a couple of minutes, but while walking around, I saw a nice table set up with all the anti-bush books (well, I'm sure it wasn't all of them, but it was a sizable collection), and I didn't see Unfit For Command anywhere near them or the new releases...

Thats just so annoying... I used to be naive, and think people who are supposed to present you everything they get, do just that... It's bad enough that the news organizations do it, it's bad that libraries and universities do it, but it's shocking that a book store would put it's political stance ahead of making money! People want to buy the book, and they won't sell it because ONE Anti-Kerry book is going to make that big a difference when compared to the sea of Anti-Bush books?

thats another question that needs to be raised. Why is this ONE book getting more attention than the sea of Bush-Bashing books... oh, right, those are against the republican president, I forgot...

48 Elcid  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 7:44:49pm

43 Roger L. Simon

Is this THE Roger L. Simon? Should it be, pleasure to meet you.

49 Beagle  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 8:14:21pm

OT, OT, OT: If anyone has read DaVinci Code, or any of the other books on the subject, my first blog entry, in my first blog, might interest you. I'll get to other subjects eventually. If you know about the many symbols which go along with this subject area, this could be an eye-opener. If you are not interested, don't bother.

This is a test of the LGF home page system. I'm new at this.

I promise not to mention my blog in many posts, but it's brand spanking new.

50 Dave Ray  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 8:25:16pm
51 Rugby the Rat  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 8:51:57pm
OT, OT, OT: If anyone has read DaVinci Code, or any of the other books on the subject, my first blog entry, in my first blog, might interest you. I'll get to other subjects eventually. If you know about the many symbols which go along with this subject area, this could be an eye-opener. If you are not interested, don't bother.


Well, you've intrigued me enough that I'm going to read The DaVinci Code, now.

52 Mashiki  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 8:57:41pm

#45 William :

When unable to quash opinion, threaten legal action. Just beautiful...the left's vision of free speech.

To the story at hand...terrorists in the grass, just waiting to strike. Why doesn't this surprise me. Why shouldn't it surprise anyone? I hope they get some good info out of this guy.

Cheers all, and good night.

53 gumble  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 9:09:34pm

OT

[Link: www.oliverwillis.com...]

Poor Michelle Malkin.

In a debate on Chris Matthew's show, she brought up charges made by the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth against Kerry that some of the wounds he received a medal for were "inadvertently self-inflicted" and not caused by enemy gunfire. Matthews pounces on it, badgering her relentlessly asking her if it was purposely self-inflicted and it seems she couldn't recall the actual accusation made was that it was inadvertant self-inflicted wound. She doesn't say it was on purpose but does say it was self-inflicted but forgets to add that it was inadvertant.

54 zombie  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 9:21:35pm

#49 Beagle
I tried to post a comment on your site, but it wouldn't let me. Apparently, to post a comment, one must sign up for one's own blogger account, a fairly involved rigamarole that drove me off. Any way to make the comments more accessible?

55 zombie  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 9:30:22pm

#47 dazoid81

  I was in a Borders earlier today...and I didn't see Unfit For Command anywhere near them or the new releases...
Thats just so annoying

Yes, but check out its ranking on Amazon: Unfit For Command rated #1 overall on Amazon -- the bestselling book in the world.

Amazon.com Sales Rank: 1

Who the hell needs Borders?

56 The Other Les  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 10:01:29pm

# 43

In fairness, that was Expatica that told the truth about the Algerian origin of the alleged terrorist. It was Agence France Presse. Therefore we must ask why AP withholds information that AFP doesn't?


It was the JOOOOOOS!

/sarcasm

57 Abu Maven  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 10:08:50pm

NY Times hatchet job on Swift Vets is now online. Suffice it to say the NYT has abandoned any pretense of independence:

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

58 gumble  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 10:14:32pm

Michelle Malkin explains the situation on her blog:
[Link: michellemalkin.com...]

The difference between the way Bush supporters and Kerry supporters are treated in the media is becoming more and more evident.

59 Rugby the Rat  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 10:18:10pm

hELLo i am RUGBY and i am a rat!
 
i thikn that a cybeorg from the furture is TRYING TO KILL ME!!

60 Roger  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 10:36:56pm

OT, Please note my comment at WOC.

Something Has Gone Rotten. Comment 2752

61 LC LaWedgie  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 11:03:03pm

Adnan G. El Shukrijumah BOLO Issued

Adnan G. El Shukrijumah is wanted in connection with possible terrorist threats against the United States. According to reports coming from media and law enforcement sources, the 29-year-old El Shukrijumah is/was in Honduras with the intent of crossing the U-S/Mexican border through Arizona or Texas. An alert and BOLO (Be-On-The-Look-Out) has been issued for the SW U.S. in regard to El Shukrijumah.
62 Norwegian kafir  Thu, Aug 19, 2004 11:32:13pm

Iranian born Porn star receives death threats

The disqualified Miss Norway contestant, Iranian born Aylar, has received death threats because of her past as a porn star and left the country as she fear for her own safety. «I really fear for my life now,» said 20-year-old Aylar Lie, to the Norwegian magazine Se og Hør Friday. «I have received a crystal clear message that there are people who want to kill me.» Aylar was disqualified from Miss Norway when her past as a porn star was revealed. Now the Iranian born woman claims she is hunted by extremist Muslims who claim she has disgraced their people and their religion.

The fact that several honor killings have been carried out in Scandinavia, frightens Aylar. An 18-year-old Iranian girl was strangled to death by her own father about a month ago at Furuset in Oslo. The reason for the murder was a culture clash between father and daughter. The Fadime case in Sweden 6 months ago, where Fadime’s father killed her because he did not agree with her lifestyle, also directed focus on honor killings among Muslims. The Iranian born girl wants to settle the score with the Muslim environment in Norway.

«Very many Muslim women want their freedom – and extremist Muslims have to respect that! That is the price they have to pay in order to live in a free country like Norway,» Aylar said.

She came to Norway when she was two years old and was raised by Norwegian foster parents. «I consider myself as a Norwegian girl, and I expect to be treated as one!» Aylar stated.

64 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 12:12:09am

OT - These short pieces pretty well describe how tenuous and strained relations have become with our ‘former’ allies(of very dubious character) and how tainted the media has become, this from the beeb’s column ‘European Press Review’ second & third stories down, 'Divided Czech loyalty and Our American Allies.'

From Divided loyalty:

"A small country like the Czech Republic must naturally show... respect for its European neighbours and their views, all the more so since we were so keen to join the EU.

But respecting them does not mean automatic agreement with every fear-induced move...."{ed. note: Oh yes it does, you've only been treated to a small taste so far.}

65 RickZ  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 12:26:06am

# 63 Norwegian kafir:

I'd just like to say that I always find your links fascinating. They really do shine the light on the cockroaches of Islam. Thanks.

66 Norwegian kafir  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 12:44:56am
I'd just like to say that I always find your links fascinating. They really do shine the light on the cockroaches of Islam. Thanks.

Thank you, Rick. If I can make a tiny contribution to bringing down Islam, I will be happy to do so. There is indeed a slow awakening going on in Europe, too. Very late, yes, but better late than never?

Israeli tourists flock revolt-torn Kashmir

Iran drug seizures soar, Afghanistan blamed

Europeans enjoy more free time: Productivity, income growth slower in the euro zone than the United States

67 beblebrox  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 1:28:07am

I think it's a realtively safe bet that there will not be huge marches of Poles in support of this FROG/Algerian. For the most part I think the Poles get it so far.

68 Norwegian kafir  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 1:33:50am

As I've said before, Denmark is perhaps the strongest anti-Islamic nation in the Western world, while neighboring Sweden is even more dhimmified than Canada. This has led to intra-Scandinavian quarrels over Muslim immigration, as Denmark refuses to follow the suicidal path of Sweden. It is true as it said in the article that there is virtually no PUBLIC debate about immigration in Sweden, despite the fact that opinion polls have shown a majority of Swedes want more immigration restrictions. Sweden is an ex-democracy:

Sweden embraces new wave of family reunifications

The family's positive experience was echoed by fellow visitors to the office, Somalis, Palestinians, Iraqis - none of whom had any trouble securing family reunification permits in Sweden. Hiwa himself came to Sweden as a refugee from Iraq in 1998. He later married Sawan, also an Iraqi, and wanted to bring her to Sweden. The only stipulation was a so-called ‘seriousness requirement:’ the couple had to convince the Swedish Immigration Service that their planned marriage was not pro forma.

Meanwhile, as Danish opposition parties quarrel bitterly over whether to roll back the 24-year age requirement, there is virtually no debate in Sweden. This despite the fact that Sweden granted 24,553 residence permits under family reunification last year, compared to Denmark's 4791.

Danish politicians have justified the strict laws as a bid to prevent arranged marriages, or matches coerced by immigrant parents to placate families in the home country. Denmark has also passed a resolution stating that family reunification applications by young people should be rejected if the couple's parents entered an arranged marriage themselves. Sweden's politicians view arranged marriages as a positive tradition: a cultural pattern that immigrants should be allowed to preserve even in Sweden. The Swedish government feels that interfering in arranged marriages is an encroachment upon private life. In addition, immigrant couples can apply for family reunification in Sweden even if they've never seen each other before - as long as the marriage is entered in a culture with a tradition of parents arranging marriages on behalf of their children.

The nation's liberal reunification laws has led to almost double the number of immigrants in Sweden as in Denmark. Out of Denmark's population of 5.3 million, seven percent are immigrants and their descendants. By comparison, immigrants represent 12-13 percent of Sweden's 9 million inhabitants.

69 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 1:36:45am
70 andrew2  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 1:37:42am

Why bother questioning the ethnicity/Religion of anyone caught engaging in terrorist activities. There are only 2 possibilities...Moslems or Quakers.

Anyway, in 40 years all of North Africa will have relocated to France and the French themselves will be in the death throws of their cultural suicide as their flat birth rates are replenished by hordes of Moslem immigrants and their 10 children each.

Sarcasm on/
Truth on /

71 andrew2  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 1:41:03am

Norweegen Kuffir

I think Immigration reform in the Western nations is of the utmost strategic importance.

President Bush's weak stand on this issue almost convinces me not to vote for him. But I know the alternative is a sleeze ball.

72 andrew2  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 1:56:33am

If you watch French TV, you clearly see most French are North African, at least thats the impression the Multi-CULTI french want to portray.

73 Ed Moran: Abu GOMEX aoa 28C  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 2:01:24am

Just finished reading the "Marianne" link above, and while once France has made the jump 100% to shari'a law, no female figure would ever be permitted, they have taken a half step in their progression to the Dar al Islam:

In 2002, a new Marianne was born. She does not have the features of a famous French woman but those of an anonymous " beurette"( young woman of North African descent), discovered by a scouting agent looking for a model who would symbolize a modern, multiethnic France.

Vive l'France!

/snark

74 Ed Moran: Abu GOMEX aoa 28C  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 2:15:46am

Re: My 73

France's idea of a multi-ethnic state is loads of people with no interest in assimilating bringing a religion hostile to a secular state.


The US idea of a multi-ethnic state (although now being challenged by the multi-culti crowd) brings people from diverse backgrounds, encouraged to keep the best their home cultures have to bring to the table, while integrating fully into society. Think about the whole progression. True, the mistake of slavery (when Europeans brought captive Africans to this country) has left a permanent mark, although even there most of the descendants of African slaves are solidly middle class and making it in America. But after the original English, the Dutch and Germans, then the Irish, the Italians and eastern Europeans, the Chinese followed by other Asians, people from Latin America.


It has been a good thing.


I feel like doing a superior dance on France right now.

76 Mr Pol  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 2:32:15am

#74 Ed Moran

IMO your explanation is way too complex. What is the difference between immigration and colonisation?

77 Millie Woods  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 2:40:55am

I am so glad that the Poles are treating these evil despicable people who run around videotaping strategic sites with the intention of carrying out attacks as they should be dealt with.
The number of creeps of Arabic origin on the Niagara Parkway - on the river between NY state and Ontario below the Falls - with cameras and videocams clicking away at the hydro installations and bridges is phenomenal.
Add to that the scene I saw in Union Station, Toronto a year ago when a grinning hijab clad ugly female walked along the tracks with her video camera. It was dark in the interior and the tracks at Union Station are hardly a tourist must get a souvenir locale.
These people are evil incarnate and they should either be rounded up and placed in holding camps or deported to their countries of origin without further ado.

78 DP111  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 2:46:25am

OT but well worth a read.

The Grandeur That Is Rome; Italian Courage in the War on Terrorism

[Link: www.defenddemocracy.org...]

79 bigel[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 2:48:23am
80 American Infidel[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 2:50:01am
81 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 2:53:09am

Jayzus the Sadr games just go on and on...and on Al-Sadr Aide: We Will Surrender Shrine

As much as I hate saying it, its time for one of those Wesley Clark moments his strategies produced and bomb the shi'ite out of that friggin mosque, then follow it up with a 'Whoops!! So Solly, wrong target' statement.

82 DP111  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 3:06:59am

68 Norwegian Kaffir

I have been impressed with Denmark's war against the Islamification of the West and for Freedom. When Denmark came out with new immigration and other laws, some two years ago, it was apparant that it was Denmark that was showing what has to be done.

Sweden is dhimmified from pure ignorance about the nature of Islam. They are under the impression that a large if not majority Muslim population can be in Sweden and still retain Swedish and Western identity. I'm not sure I want to bet on this. Even if it was safe to bet, it seems foolhardy to stake ones nation on the generosity and charity of Islam.

There is a Swedish blog running a discussion on Islam

[Link: www.bearstrong.net...]

Most Swedes, including the site master of the weblog, show complete ignorance of Islam and fall for the Big Lie from Muslim propagandists, even such hoary old chestnuts as "Muslims invented Mathematics". The trouble is, Swedes have not had to pay a price for defending Freedom. Therefore they think that there is no price to shoulder or pay.

How is it in Norway? Like Denmark or Sweden?

83 Furious J  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 3:18:17am

Meanwhile, in a multicultural, smoke-free, fragrance-prohibited campaign office, many miles from the actual topic...

Remember how the Kerrybots were squawking earlier this week about the Bush as that pointed out Kerry missed 76% of the Public Intelligence meetings, claiming that the usual Republican operatives were lying? Fact Check says, "Unh-unh-unh, Miss Thing."

A Bush-Cheney '04 ad released Aug. 13 accuses Kerry of being absent for 76% of the Senate Intelligence Committee's public hearings during the time he served there. The Kerry campaign calls the ad "misleading," so we checked, and Bush is right.

Official records show Kerry not present for at least 76% of public hearings held during his eight years on the panel, and possibly 78% (the record of one hearing is ambiguous).

Kerry points out that most meetings of the Intelligence Committee are closed and attendance records of those meetings aren't public, hinting that his attendance might have been better at the non-public proceedings. But Kerry could ask that his attendance records be made public, and hasn't.

84 broomer  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 3:20:16am

#77 Millie Woods

And when the Muslim videographers are hungry, there's a Halal stand on a corner on Rainbow Blvd (1.2 miles from the border on US side).

We're letting them plan our destructions with open arms.

JG

85 Luigi  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 3:26:09am

Liz Dole on Fox calling that Najaf a "very sacred" site and that's why we've got to pussy foot around and not upset anyone. HEY LIZ!! KNOW A GUY NAMED BOB DOLE? ASK HIM ABOUT MONTE CASSINO!

86 Perry  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 3:28:16am

OT

Chris Muir is pure gold this morning.

87 Partisan One  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 3:28:32am

A great brief on what's happening.

88 Norwegian kafir  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 3:38:48am

DPP111: If you are talking about Bjorn Staerk's weblog, he's Norwegian, although he does have some Swedish posters.

Norway used to be very much like Sweden, in its naive dhimmi ways. When Denmark started clamping down on Islam and Muslim immigration, which they did even before 9/11, Norwegian liberal newspapers ran editorials about how Denmark resembled Nazi Germany in the 1930s! This is changing fast. Is started a little bit last year, as Ibn Warraq's "Why I am not a Muslim" appeared in Norwegian translation, and several Humanists respected by left-wingers made some fairly critical remarks about Islam. It has been heating up A LOT this year, as the Progress Party, which is Norway's second or third largest party, have made some harsh remarks about Islam. The debate continues, as Norwegian Muslims have invited a Bin Laden backer to Oslo . Our clueless government just granted him entry, a move which is likely to enrage average Norwegians even more.

Only a year or two ago, you could hardly make a critical remark about Islam on Norwegian discussion forums without being branded "racist" and have your post deleted. Now, the same forums are brimming with anti-Islamic sentiments to such an extent that it is difficult to hold back. Frankly, I'm rather amazed over how quickly the mood is changing. I hope the same is true of other Euro countries. It's a little late, but better late than never, right?

89 American Infidel[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 3:48:40am
90 Furious J  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 3:49:49am

OT: Awesome, Must-Read Editorial on the Olympics

Even Howard Dean's heart had to skip a beat when the Iraqi athletes walked in to Santiago Calatrava's magnificent stadium at the Olympics opening ceremony. Boy, did they look happy. Genuinely happy. Compare their elation--reaching toward he crowd, tapping their hearts--with the athletes from Iran or Saudi Arabia, who had that smile-or-disappear look Olympic athletes forlornly wore when they represented the Soviet Union or the "Eastern bloc" nations. In a word, the Iraqis looked free.

It occurred to me watching this pageant of superb sportsmen and sportswomen that much the same true freedom of spirit could be seen on the faces of athletes from a list of nations with familiar names--Bosnia-Herzegovina, Croatia, Afghanistan, Grenada, Kuwait, South Korea, the former captive nations of Romania, Bulgaria, the Czechs, Slovakia, Estonia, Lithuania (all holding elections since the early 1990s), and the other former Soviet republics.

These Olympians have one thing in common: They come from the nations the U.S. has liberated since the end of World War II.

(snip)

How many nations have free France and free Germany liberated since 1945?

91 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 3:50:01am

Wooooooo

Christian radio attacking Kerry? Lets see him squirm out of this with a, 'those damn right-wing republican funded Christian's': THE STUFF THE KERRY WEB FOLKS DON'T WANT YOU TO READ:

Why he gets away with this in the mainstream media is unknown. What is known is that Kerry's people are manipulating the material that is supposedly "transcripts" of the things Kerry is saying on the campaign trail.
92 Sarah D.  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 3:54:51am

OT

Good article about Al-Jazeera.

Last week, thanks to decisive action by Iraq's interim government, the U.S. took a significant step toward winning the ever-elusive hearts and minds of the Iraqi people. Iyad Allawi, Iraq's acting prime minister, announced that al-Jazeera — the Arab world's one-stop shop for Islamist, anti-American, and anti-Semitic propaganda — would be banned from operating in Iraq for 30 days.
93 andrew2  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 3:59:57am

Bigel

Do you lump all of Europe into the same column as the Islamofascists? Because if you do, you certainly have a lot of ammunition (hopefully not the launch codes).

We both know European financial assistance clearly goes to Arafish and his thugs to kill Jews. If I know this, how can the EU not? We know pro-Arab/Moslem propaganda is the staple diet sustaining the European appetite for anti-Semitism, even at the expense of their own Judeo-Christian heritage!

Thus, I believe there is something to your observations that European countries seem to harbor greater hatred and ill intent to the Jooo's, than towards the Moslem hordes that are outwardly plotting and getting away literally with murder (the Hamburg cell comes to mind).

I honestly offer no hypothesis for this strange phenomena, but it baffles the mind to contemplate it.

Islam is the danger and France started the ball rolling post World War II (they will pay in spades), after Hitler exported anti-Semitism to the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem. Arab/Moslem anti-Semitism really seems to me to be the latest excuse the peace loving Moslems are using to continue their never ending bloodlust against humanity.

And guess what Bigel, they're winning, thank your local Liberal!

94 American Infidel[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 4:05:15am
95 Sarah D.  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 4:07:38am

Is it just me, or are we all ready to just get this danged election over with?

More Kerry lies.

96 Luigi  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 4:09:02am

Check out Google News right now -- there's an editorial for Kerry posing as a news article under the US section:

Kerry has no need to defend his Vietnam record - He was there, Bush wasn't!


It's the link for a ProFindPages.com . In fact, the whole US section is an editorial for Kerry. I'll dump the content here:

U.S. »
Kerry has no need to defend his Vietnam record - He was there, Bush wasn't!
ProFindPages.com - 1 hour ago
The Swift Boat Veterans for Truth advert has been grabbing the headlines lately, but then, that's the whole purpose of the ad.
SBVT: Sinking in Their Own Sea of Lies Capitol Hill Blue
Kerry fights back on his war record Columbus Dispatch (subscription)

Google News s*cks. They are so blatantly liberal and biased it is ridiculous. And as of the IPO yesterday the founders have $3 billion each. So now, just like Theresa Heniz, they think they can get away with whatever they want, think they own everything and everybody.

97 American Infidel[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 4:09:43am
98 American Infidel[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 4:17:08am
99 Thom  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 4:22:36am

#79 bigel

I have an idea. Let's tell Poland to go fuck itself and then kick them out of iraq.

Just think of what that would accomplish in the WoT(MA).

100 bigel[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 4:23:07am
101 bigel[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 4:26:28am
102 Mr Pol  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 4:27:51am

#100 bigel

Actually, most Europeans would be willing to pay any price to get rid of the [bigoted word]s... Too bad the EU-crats do not.

103 Beagle  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 4:29:50am

#79 bigel

Hoo boy.
----------

PT: Painful irony, along with partisan hypocrisy: media wondering why Islamic world can't get American message. Answer: media.

The Bush administration is facing growing criticism from both inside and outside its ranks that it has failed to move aggressively enough in the war of ideas against Osama bin Laden (news - web sites)'s al Qaeda and other Islamic extremist groups over the three years since the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

This is what you get when the MSM is elitist, agenda-driven, and not prone to introspection. One reason is your obsession with Abu Ghraib, which is now up there with the Crusaders and al-Aqsa, along with al-Andalus. Thanks, MSM. Glad I don't live and work downtown in a big city.

104 bigel[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 4:31:00am
105 bigel[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 4:33:15am
106 bigel[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 4:34:11am
107 American Infidel[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 4:35:51am
108 Thom  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 4:36:17am

#104 bigel

Well, exactly! I mean it may be the case that perhaps they're possibly not a reliable ally! So we should tell them to go fuck themselves. With a railroad tie preferably.

I mean, they're basically Spain but with a language with a lot of vowel-less words, so why sit around and wait for the inevitable? A pre-emptive "go fuck yourself" from us would do a world of good ...

109 Beagle  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 4:38:39am

#106 bigel

It's just the standard all Europeans are the same in wanting to kill the Jews crap. Why bother making me spell it out? As someone with relatives all over Europe, and I've actually met some of my Polish relatives, I think you overdo it. You aren't going to change any minds by going over the top with rhetoric.

You are good with history. I agree that Israel should go down swinging if it comes to that. But the Euro bashing is just overgeneral, all the time. Allow me a "hoo boy."

110 Radian  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 4:39:26am

97

An American response:
[Link: www.bobtuley.com...]

Thin jacket 308 match fragments at 300 yds with devestating effects. Like the 223 is supposed to but with much more power.

111 Beagle  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 4:45:24am

#107 American Infidel

Don't worry. Terrorism was created by GWB, along with his Zionist-Saudi-Halliburton friends. If you just vote for poor John Kerry, a victim of Texas Republican Illuminati, everything will be fine.
/sarc

Anyway, Florida is loaded up with terror targets on the A-list. When the goal is to cause as much disruption, and as many casualties, as possible -- nobody is safe. Maybe some farmers in Kansas, or ranchers in Montana, are reasonably safe.

112 andrew2  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 4:46:04am

How has it come to pass that an evil, hateful, spiteful tribe of cultist primitives are allowed to bring our civilisation to such chaos and confusion?

What lie could be big enough to allow the rightful citizens of the Western tradition to willingly surrender their heritage to the new fangaled industry of race politics and multi-culturism, via immigration colonization?

Why don't those in authority take the necessary steps to limit immigration and control America's boarders?

Finally, what will America look like in a century, if drastic steps are not taken now to preserve American identity, culture and heritage?


Europe is further along in this civilisational crisis than we are, but I think thats only because we're a bigger country. Once we pass the point of no return, (demographically speaking) lets see how well the new found multi-culti citizens treat the newly realized former majority people of America. In the middle of all the racial conflict that are bound to occur, lets see how the Moslems fare in treating our constitution once they gain various political power.

And all the while, the liberals, the multi-cultists and the politicians of no convictions (Clinton, Ted Kennedy, etc.) will not be held responsible for their part in destroying all that was fought so hard for and defended to the last possible moment--the moment America became a distant memory of a formerally great civilisation that died a willing death at the alter of politically correct multicultural ideals.

113 Mr Pol  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 4:50:16am

#105 bigel

You are wrong. Look, I'm the one living in Europe and meeting Europeans every day. The common Frenchman couldn't care less about Jews. S/he knows that there are Jews in France and that they scream rape and arson each time a shul is burned or a cemetery is defaced - but that's about it. Anti-semitism is part of French culture, but there is no target for it. [bigoted word]s, on the other hand, are everywhere, attack everybody, steal and break everything, and they are hated with a passion. Belgium, Italy, Spain, Portugal, the U.K. are the same.

Yeah, European gov'ts have chosen to support the Arabs against Israel and have wet dreams of a Judenrein world. Eurocrats do not represent Europeans.

114 mommydoc  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 4:52:44am

andrew2 (#112) Brilliant post. Depressing, but brilliant. I feel very hopeless about the future, these days.

115 BIG  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 4:54:06am

OT: Not sure if this has been posted yet, but here is actually a plan for mideast peace that might work. For that reason alone, it will never see the light of day.

[Link: web.israelinsider.com...]

116 Yishai  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 4:56:22am

Iran warns of preemptive strike to prevent attack on nuclear sites

Would you believe the story comes from AFP?

I especially like this quote:

Iran's controversial bid to generate nuclear power at its plant being built at Bushehr is seen by arch-enemies Israel and the United States as a cover for nuclear weapons development.

Don't only superheroes have arch-enemies?

And finally, our friends at AFP conclude this story with a very incomplete picture of Irans list of no-no's:

The Islamic republic has agreed to temporarily suspend uranium enrichment pending the completion of the IAEA probe, but is working on other parts of the fuel cycle and has recently resumed making centrifuges used for enrichment.
117 Thom  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 4:56:49am

#115 BIG

Expect some insane ranting from a certain Gor-don ...

LOL.

118 American Infidel[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:00:06am
119 SoCalJustice  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:00:31am

Got two in the U.S.:

U.S. Arrests Two Suspected Hamas Members

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. officials have arrested two suspected members of the Palestinian militant group Hamas on charges of material support to a terrorist organization, racketeering and money laundering, the Justice Department said on Friday.

Mohammed Hamid Khalil Salah was arrested in Chicago and Abdelhaleem Hasan Abdelraziq Ashqar in northern Virginia on Thursday, a Justice Department spokesman said.

The Justice Department issued a third indictment for Mousa Mohammed Abu Marzook, who the spokesman said was living in Syria. The spokesman could not comment on whether the United States would seek his extradition.

I'm hearing there's an Ashcroft press conference at 10:15 Eastern.

120 andrew2  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:00:31am

Mr Pol

"Actually, most Europeans would be willing to pay any price to get rid of the [bigoted word]s... Too bad the EU-crats do not."


Do you think the average French citizen realizes he's been conned and wan't's to abort the inevitability of being the first Western country in history to succumb to a campaign of invasion and conquest sponsored by the cultural elites?

Or have the French swallowed this crap hook, line and kebab?

121 bigel[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:02:21am
122 SoCalJustice  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:02:33am

Re: Hamas arrests

Fox reporting on it now.

123 American Infidel[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:03:06am
124 Frank IBC  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:04:51am

Kerry Sees Incoming S##t, Turns On Fan -

The Kerry campaign calls on a publisher to 'withdraw book' written by group of veterans, claiming veterans are lying about Kerry's service in Vietnam and operating as a front organization for Bush. Kerry campaign has told Salon.com that the publisher of UNFIT FOR COMMAND is 'retailing a hoax'... 'No publisher should want to be selling books with proven falsehoods in them,' Kerry campaign spokesman Chad Clanton tells the online mag... Developing...

from Drudge

I think I'll load up on shares of Amazon...

125 American Infidel[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:04:58am
126 BIG  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:05:11am

#117 Thom

I know I am dreaming. This plan actually offers a peaceful solution to the situation. For that reason alone, it will be condemned by the Arabs, Europeans, and UN. My favorite part of the article was this:

Jordan comprises 77% of former Palestine and Israel 17% of former Palestine. Is it really that difficult to carve up the remaining 6% of Palestine between these two States without creating a 23rd Arab State stuck in between them?

I will await Nodrog's rebuttal.

127 bigel[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:05:18am
128 bigel[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:05:46am
129 SoCalJustice  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:07:03am

American Infidel

Eagerly awaiting the CAIR seethe-a-thon. ;-)

130 mommydoc  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:07:04am

Furious J (#90): Unfortunately, gratitude is fleeting.

And, unfortunately, as much as I supported and still support the liberation of Iraq, I am afraid that we will get nothing out of it in the long run. Not even an ally in the middle east.

Islam delenda est.
Arabism delenda est.

131 Thom  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:07:32am

#126 BIG

He has no rebuttal. He will call you a nazi and a hamasnik and invoke the Trail of Tears or possibly the Bataan Death March.

132 BC  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:09:05am

OT:

Hey, get this: Iraqi police in control of Imam Ali shrine

Iraqi police took control of the Imam Ali Mosque in the holy city of Najaf on Friday after entering the shrine and finding that militia loyal to a radical cleric had left, the Interior Ministry said.

And below this & to the left, a small picture of a ski-masked warrior captioned "Militia promises to fight to the end". Must've forgotten to add "or until they're scared shitless and take their sorry pathetic asses back to Fallujah or wherever".

133 American Infidel[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:09:09am
134 Frank IBC  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:10:17am

SoCalJustice -

What's the status of al-Sadr & Co? Are they prisoners now, or are they just retreating to other parts?

135 Lively  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:11:22am

#124 Frank IBC. I saw that up there on Drudge. It's ironic the same year Moore's Fahrenheit 911 comes out in support of Kerry, he tries for a Fahrenheit 411 to destroy/prohibit from being printed books.

136 Mr Pol  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:11:29am

#120 andrew2

They know what's happening. 20% are willing to vote for a neo-Nazi party to get rid of the [bigoted word] colonization. The problem is that no other political party is willing to do anything.


#121 bigel

By your logic, Saddam represented the Iraqis, or Clinton and Carter represented the US people...

A regime change in Europe is long overdue. That's not the same thing as nuking the whole place.

137 Dave the.....  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:12:37am

Charles, are you up yet?

We need a thread on Kerry's efforts to stop the SwiftBoat book.

This is almost as bad as BusHitler sending Ashcroft to bookstores to remove all copies of Moores books. Okay, that didn't happen, but it makes a good story.

138 SoCalJustice  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:14:00am

(#133) American Infidel

Do they actually take a break from seething, or is it their perpetual state???

That is an exceedingly good point.

(#134) Frank IBC

I haven't heard anything other than a lot of people got killed last night, and he wasn't one of them. He says he's turning the keys of the Najaf mosque over to Sistani and company.

139 Mr Pol  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:14:05am

#133 American Infidel

Do they actually take a break from seething, or is it their perpetual state???

They have two states: Jihad (killing and seething) and hudna (killing and whining).

140 Asher Abrams  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:14:07am

116/Yishai,

Aside from my detailed analysis of the Iranian threat, I think it's a sign that they're desperate. You might remember that Iranian official, Fereydoun Jahani, who was abducted a few weeks ago in Iraq. Just as an educated guess, I wouldn't be surprised if the CIA had something to do with that (as I've remarked before). I think it's an indication that we're gaining ground on these a**holes.

141 Beagle  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:14:16am

#127 bigel

No, but Europe's own actions to condemn Israel and the Jews over the past year certainly have.

On that we agree 100%. The best way to change the governments in Europe is to persuade those who vote to change the governments. Well, we could invade Europe again. But we'll have to do that when the Islamists gain control of French nukes anyway.

The biggest problem in Europe (aside from historical Jew-hating, granted) is the one-sided media they are subjected to. So, since we post here at LGF, we should try to educate Europeans who are victims of their media without pissing them off, or driving them off.

There are European posters here who must get a bit miffed being included in the whole Hitlerian construct you sometimes appear to believe in. I have a feeling you are angry and don't mean things quite the way they come out. And, as I said, you have a point when it comes to many Europeans, especially the EU bureaucrats -- and France. But the Internet is merciless when it comes to nuance. You are what you type, so to speak.

142 BIG  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:15:30am

#131 Thom

So I'll bring up the Turk/Greek population exchange, the Indian/Pakistan transfer. Both of these are credited with saving countless lives. And if you read the plan presented, there is no population transfer unless the individual wants it. Even Jews stuck on the other side will not be forced to leave their homes if they want to live under Jordainian rule. What the plan does prevent is an influx of Arabs into Israel and Jews into Jordan. It would effectively separate the two warring people.

And all this could be accomplished with little additional funding. Instead of buying munitions with European aid, the PLO-Arabs will spend the money on infrastructure for their people.

Personally, I would rather just transfer the PLO-Arabs out of Israel. But this plan at least offers an alternative to that measure.

143 American Infidel[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:15:36am
144 Mr Pol  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:16:12am

#141 Beagle

The best way to change the governments in Europe is to persuade those who vote to change the governments.

Sure. It'll work as well as it would in Lebanon, Syria or Iran. After all, that's how Saddam was ousted, right?
/sarcasm

145 Thom  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:18:03am

#142 BIG

Oh, I'm familiar with the plan and I support it. It's been been much discussed here - which is why I can predict Gor-don's reaction with a fair degree of certainty.

146 Frank IBC  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:19:38am

Kerry's not the only "hawkchicken" whose military record is under scrutiny -

[Harkin's] Vietnam Lies

(Wall Street Journal, Thursday August 19 - Editorial - link requires subscription)

"In 1979, Mr. Harkin, then a congressman, participated in a round-table discussion arranged by the Congressional Vietnam Veterans' Caucus. 'I spent five years as a Navy pilot, starting in November of 1962,' Mr. Harkin said at that meeting, in words that were later quoted in a book, Changing of the Guard, by Washington Post political writer David Broder. 'One year was in Vietnam. I was flying F-4s and F-8s on combat air patrols and photo-reconnaissance support missions. I did no bombing.'

"That clearly is not an accurate picture of his Navy service. . . . Mr. Harkin's Navy record shows his only decoration is the National Defense Service Medal, awarded to everyone on active service during those years. He did not receive either the Vietnam Service medal or the Vietnam Campaign medal, the decorations given to everyone who served in the Southeast Asia theater."

It turned out Mr. Harkin had not seen combat and was stationed in Japan. What's more, Mr. Cheney isn't the first Vice President to fall victim to Mr. Harkin's acid tongue. In an editorial in 1988, we quoted "Senator Tom Harkin who served in Vietnam" (we thought at the time) saying of his Senate colleague Dan Quayle, who did not serve in Vietnam: "It's so ironic; they get in Congress or the government and become big hawks. Don't they have any shame at all?"

147 PETN Sandwich  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:21:33am

Interesting,

SECOND explosion at Texas gas facility in 24 hours.

The Poles have been onto the Islamist Frog in the Grass for three months. Was the Frog arrested before or after the FIRST blast in Texas?

The Texas gas facility is owned by Duke Energy, headquartered in Charlotte North Carolina, where a Pakistani was caught filming buildings... he also had film from Texas...

148 American Infidel[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:21:41am
149 Frank IBC  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:21:46am

the Turk/Greek population exchange, the Indian/Pakistan transfer. Both of these are credited with saving countless lives.

I'm not aware of any substantial number of casualties during the Turk/Greek exchange, but over a million died in India and Pakistan.

150 dazoid81  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:22:23am

143 - American Inifidel

What efforts are these??? Anything documented???


aside from threatening tv stations about showing the commercial... and telling bookstores that they shouldn't sell the book because it's full of lies... and going into every major media outlet and telling them these people are all liars and nothing they say is true... Aside from those three, I haven't seen the left do anything to try to silence the swiftvets

151 Mr Pol  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:22:38am

#142 BIG

See this thread.

152 Asher Abrams  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:24:33am

141/Beagle,

Excellent points. LGF is a very popular and influential site worldwide, and it would be a shame to waste this opportunity to help ordinary people in Europe understand the things that Agence France-Press doesn't explain.

153 Mr Pol  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:25:08am

#148 American Infidel

Can whining be considered a different form of seething???

I'm not sure. But if you are interested, I can explain how to silence them :-)

154 Asher Abrams  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:25:13am

press=presse, pardonnez-moi

155 Dave the.....  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:27:07am

#143

Drudge is reporting that Kerry and his thugs are putting pressure on the publisher to stop printing the book.

If true (perhaps Drudge is jumping the gun here), it will cause a backlash. People can't be so stupid that they don't see Kerry trying to kill the book instead of refuting the charges.


The Dem slime machine is going full throtle. Know they are writing letters to their local newspapers saying Kerry has released all records and say Bush hasn't. Just the opposite of the truth. They seem to be panicing a bit. And this is with Kerry in the lead right now.

156 zulubaby  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:27:35am

Hamas terrorist has been arrested in the US!? I'm half asleep but is that what I'm hearing?

157 Mr Pol  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:28:10am

#155 Dave the...

People can't be so stupid

Wanna bet?

158 American Infidel[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:28:21am
159 BC  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:28:28am

My #132 - an update:

Police detained hundreds of Shi'ite militiamen when they entered the Imam Ali Mosque in Najaf on Friday, but radical Shi'ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr was not found, Iraqi officials said.
A government source put the number of fighters in the shrine at 400 but an interior ministry spokesman said police who entered the mosque had found 500 lightly armed men prepared to surrender.
...
"It is possible [al-Sadr] might have escaped overnight," [an Interior Ministry spokesman] said ..."


What, he didn't want his 72 raisins??!?
There's still a small photo on the page capitioned "Militia promises to fight to the end". Must've forgotten to add "or until their charismatic leader runs off like a terrified bunny in the middle of the night."

160 godfrey  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:29:13am

Friday morning VDH: Welcome Back, Europe

Excerpt:

And as we begin to leave Europe, as NATO mutters and shuffles in its embarrassing dotage, as cracks in an authoritarian and unworkable EU begin to widen, ever so slowly we here in the United States shall start to witness all over Europe both a new sensibleness — and a new furor.

Restored defense spending = less socialistic pablum = re-entry into history

161 Frank IBC  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:29:17am

I think "seething" is the introverted version, "whining" is the extroverted version.

162 American Infidel[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:30:28am
163 Mr Pol  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:30:30am
164 SoCalJustice  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:30:52am

zulubaby

Two of them. The also re-indicted Marzook in Damascus.

Mohammed Salah in Chicago and Abdelrahim al-Ashqar.

If you google al-Ashqar, you'll see he used to be a professor at Howard Universtiy in D.C.

165 Frank IBC  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:31:12am

Drudge is reporting that Kerry and his thugs are putting pressure on the publisher to stop printing the book.

Publisher is Regenery-Gateway, IIRC. Lots a' luck trying to twist their arms, idiots.

166 BIG  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:33:40am

#149 Frank IBC

Here's a link with some info about European population transfers. It really doesn't list how many died, but it does have some very good background about the transfers and their consequences.

Forced population transfers of Europe

167 zulubaby  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:34:27am

Mr Pol and SoCalJustice, thanks. Great news.

168 Asher Abrams  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:34:56am

160/Godfrey,

Great link!

169 American Infidel[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:35:34am
170 Mr Pol  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:35:35am

#162 American Infidel

Sort of...

171 zulubaby  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:36:16am

Of course the pictures accompanying the article Mr Pol linked to are of Palestinian children. I hate the media.

172 Frank IBC  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:37:13am

SoCalJustice -

If you google al-Ashqar, you'll see he used to be a professor at Howard Universtiy in D.C.

Hopefully Malik Zulu Shabazz will be next.

173 andrew2  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:37:51am

#94 American Infidel

I am well aware of Bat Yeór and the Euro-Arab dialogue et, al. I cannot stress her work strongly enough to those Germans I meet here. But most simply dismiss her as was the case with a LGF poster 'German Observer", who wrote in response to my reference to her work that she was "Biased"and that the EAD "Amounted to nothing".

I wish I would have stated the obvious that Germany is now host to millions of Moslems.

She certainly offers a seemingly bullet-proof argument for the obvious institional changes afforded to accomidate Moslems in Europe today.

174 Frank IBC  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:40:07am

Quote of the Day:

DEAN ESMAY: "The Internet has detected the mainstream media as a form of censorship and simply routed around them."

(via InstaPundit)

175 William  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:40:38am
was in a Borders earlier today, and noticed that I didn't see [John Kerry: Unfit for Command]... at the very front I saw Bill Clinton's book facing the door...

The Internet really has changed the game for the "mainstream" media, academia, as well as publishing.

Imagine if this book was published 10 years ago.  You wouldn't see it on store shelves, and wouldn't even know it existed because the "mainstream" media would ignore it.

Most teachers and professors would not teach students about the information it contains, so the information would simply vanish down the memory hole.

"History" has been created this way, with this leftward tilt, for at least the last 50 years in the United States.

(If you asked 1,000 Americans why the United States fought the Vietnam war, less than 1% would have the word "Soviet Union" in the answer.  Hollywood has unanimously helped distort the facts with numerous Vietnam movies, many of them considered "classics" and film "masterpieces.")

Today, people can bypass book stores, libraries, and college professors, and obtain information and books via the Internet.

It will be interesting to observe the sociological impact in the coming years from having free and open access to information and differing viewpoints.
 

176 Cadpig  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:41:22am

Completely OT... sorry but I found this very tee hee'ish

World Wide News Alert

This morning, from a cave somewhere in Pakistan, Taliban Minister of Migration, Mohammed Omar, warned the United States that if military action against Iraq continues, Taliban authorities will cut off America's supply of convenience store managers.

That is all!

177 SoCalJustice  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:42:02am

(#172) Frank IBC

What a crazy, raving anti-Semite.

178 American Infidel[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:43:35am
179 Dave the.....  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:48:07am

#169

The left (and even some well meaning mainstream liberals) have been going off about libriaries been raided under the Bush adminstration, which of course has never happened.

And we at LGF may on occasion get a little carried away on a subject.

But this thing about trying to suppress a book is scary. They are doing everything possible to kill this. From slandering the authors to threatening TV stations with lawsuites to now going after the publisher.

Somethings going to pop. Either Kerry will be successful with his attacks, or it will hugely backfire. He seems to be making a big gamble. That shows how important this book and the TV commercials are.

180 Right Wing Conspirator  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:48:14am

Has this been posted yet -

Al-Sadr supporters leave Najaf mosque

NAJAF, Iraq (CNN) -- Iraqi police seized control of the Imam Ali Mosque in Najaf on Friday after the fighters loyal to Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr withdrew, the Iraqi Interior Ministry said.

The Iraqi Interior Ministry said police peacefully entered the mosque Friday afternoon.

U.S. and Iraqi forces had surrounded the outskirts of the mosque compound Friday as part of offensive operations aimed at putting pressure on the fighters, who were holed up in the mosque complex.

181 American Infidel[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:53:39am
182 zulubaby  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:56:27am

This is how sick the AP is. Check out this headline about the Hamas arrests.

3 Palestinian Activists Face U.S. Charges

The three activists allegedly used bank accounts in the United States to launder millions of dollars to support Hamas, which the U.S. government has designated as a terrorist organization. The indictment against the three, filed in Chicago, was unsealed Friday
The activists include Mousa Mohammed Abu Marzook, formerly chief and now deputy chief of the Hamas political bureau. Marzook is believed to be living in Damascus, Syria, and is considered a fugitive, Ashcroft told a news conference at the Justice Department.
183 William  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:56:45am

Gumble, that Michelle Malkin info you posted is unbelievable.

[Link: michellemalkin.com...]

Chris Matthews is a complete jackass.
 

184 andrew2  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:58:09am

#136 Mr. Pol,


Does that 20% willing to vote for Neo-Nazis to address the French Islamic invasion reflect 20% of the population willing to overlook the nasty Neo-Nazi tendency for Jew hatred?

Or is any political party willing to confront immigration issues branded Neo-Nazis in France?

185 papijoe  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:58:23am

#95 Sarah D.

Amen! I am soooo tired of this election year. Too much at stake, too much insanity, too many idiots making my blood boil...

186 Dave the.....  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:58:41am

I was going to hold off on my copy. Let others get them while they are in short supply and I'll get mine later when it drops from the #1 spot.

But maybe I should jump and get it while I can. Just in case the censureship works.

187 Mr Pol  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 6:01:26am

#184 andrew2

There is only one political party who says it is willing to address the immigration problem, and that's the Front National. The leader of the FN is a spiritual son of Hitler. He supported Saddam against the coalition, and is also a supporter of Hizb'Allah, meaning it's all talk...

188 Frank IBC  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 6:03:57am

Can someone contact Lizardoid Central in Denver International Airport and verify that Charles' alarm clock is working?

189 BC  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 6:04:45am

#180 RWC -

Yup.

Looks like the al-Sadr gang are about to shift from "courageous freedom-fighter" mode to "persecuted victims of ruthless imperialist occupiers" mode.

190 Dirk Diggler  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 6:06:53am
Somethings going to pop. Either Kerry will be successful with his attacks, or it will hugely backfire. He seems to be making a big gamble. That shows how important this book and the TV commercials are.

These 'warnings' constitute a huge mistake, IMO. I understand that the ad in question is causing considerable damage with independent voters in a handful states, but on the national level the media has effectively buried the story. More can be lost than can be gained by attacking the books publishers.

191 zulubaby  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 6:07:18am

William (#183)

I can't believe what I just read -- she was thrown off the show! He is a perfect example of the slime posing as "journalists". Chris Matthews' spittle problem is legendary. Just ask the SNL crew.

192 Beagle  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 6:09:37am

#183 William

I saw the interview. Chris Matthews, and the other partisan Democrats, are apoplectic about this. Malkin came off as a winner to reasonable people. At least she didn't stoop to his level. He tried to put words in her mouth, and would not let her respond. That's the standard tactic. Susan Estrich started it with her ugly cross-examination style of interview about a week ago.

They know the ads are working in many cases. It's their own fault for running a candidate who centered his campaign on four months in Vietnam. Kerry's already spent more time talking about Vietnam, just in this campaign, than he spent serving with the Swiftees.

193 Frank IBC  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 6:09:48am

Sorry, I should have waited 4 more minutes.

194 gymnast  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 6:10:49am

#183, William. For some real laughs, google Keith Olberman+sports to get a good insight of the idiot who is Matthews producer. Former sports reporters tend to be egocentric assholes who confuse the signifigance of baseball statistics with historiography.

195 American Infidel[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 6:14:33am
196 Dave the.....  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 6:23:06am

#190

I agree. I just did a check through a news search service. There are a lot of stories on this and everyone in Big Media is negative to the vets.

Most have one of two headlines:

Charges against Kerry shown to be false

Kerry asks Bush to stop Republican attacks on him


I think I'll run to the Borders (ewwww) next door during my lunch time.

197 William  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 6:26:17am
I was going to hold off on my copy. Let others get them while they are in short supply and I'll get mine later when it drops from the #1 spot.

That's my plan as well -- waiting until it hits #4 or 5.
 

198 CheezNCrackers  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 6:26:44am
176 Cadpig 8/20/2004 07:41AM PST

ROFL!

Oh no! What will my local 7-11 do now !?

199 andrew2  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 6:34:14am

Clinton = Hazel O'leary--Lets be open and non-discriminatory (e.g., no color coded badges) at the Nuke Lab...ahha.

Clinton + China = Iran. How? Serious geo-synchronous positioning technology transferred to China (late '90's) at the protestation of the Department of Defense.

Clinton Solution--Change jurisdiction from DOD to Department of Commerce, and then make the "sale".

Result - Iran now is alleged to have precision missiles and soon Nukes with Eurabian/ Russo assistance. Which threatens Israel.

NOTE TO READER *** Poor Israel, damned if she does and damned if she doesn’t', but Clinton has creditability!

Looks like all the lies are beginning to snowball in Clinton's corrupt leftist legacy. He believed in what? The socialist vision for America? Well it looks that Marxist leftism is beginning to unravel America.

Far too many people are compliant in its corrupt worm-eaten core beliefs.

200 warmi  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 6:34:47am

bigel:

All it will take is one Islamonazi bomb in Poland, with a taped statement from al-Qaeda that this is in retaliation for their support of the evil Zionazi Jews, and Poland will fold right away."

Will Poland, Australia, UK fold when something like 9/11 happens to them ?

Perhaps they will.
I don't know ..

On the other hand I am having hard time taking your accusations seriously when faced with facts like this.

Who has a greater stake in this fight ?
American Jews or Poles ?

And you are accusing Poles of cowardice ?

201 Right Wing Conspirator  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 6:37:46am

#189 BC

I knew someone had to have posted it already, even though it is Friday :-)

202 William  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 6:42:22am
For some real laughs, google Keith Olberman+sports to get a good insight of the idiot who is Matthews producer.

Hmm, found some interesting stuff:

* Olbermann hosted ESPN's Sportscenter from 1992 to 1997

* Olbermann has a degree in "communications arts"
 

203 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 6:47:06am

#169 AI:

Would that be like Kerry and his compatriots trying to buy up every last copy of Kerry's anti war tome? Don't want the truth to come out. Buy back any incriminating statements you made, and supress those who offer a fact-based treatise on your behavior during same period of time.

Attack the messenger, without disputing the message.
It works. Throws most folks off the trail and leads to thousands of words carefully parsed in the Times to try and silence the Swifties, while never actually doing any fact checking of their own.

204 gymnast  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 6:52:23am

#202, William. Media Artfulness is the guys actual area of expertise. He must have majored in "Slight of Hand' with a minor in "Stroking the Public". Well thats how you make the big bucks.

205 Andrew2  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 7:14:24am

Mr. Pol,

I've only heard of Le Pen in passing. But your calling him a spiritual heir to Hitler turns me off to him immediately since I am aware of your knowledge of these issues and I hate Hitler.

But I don't understand how Le Penn can be a Nazi if he is apparantly against Moslem immigration. To me, Jews are not an immigration or security issue. Or are they just the usual scapegoates which he equates with the Islamofascists?

Either way, how can France be salvaged with one party too rascist and the other treasonous?

Or is Islam in France to stay until the job is done as we know Moslems can never accept equal status, only sympathy until it conquers?

206 zulubaby  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 7:21:13am

Am I the only one who finds the term "[bigoted word]s" offensive? It's making my hair stand on end.

207 WriterMom  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 7:23:40am

#206 zulubaby

I agree. It's awful.

208 Cam  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 7:24:23am

#206 zulubaby:

No, you're not alone. It pisses me off to no end because:

1. It's as bigoted as kike, heeb, dago, wop, what have you.

2. It hands ammunition to those that want to label Charles' fine work a "racist" blog, and thus undermines what we are trying to do.

209 zulubaby  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 7:27:06am

WriterMom and Cam, thanks. It's really getting to me.

210 Cam  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 7:34:14am

zulubaby:

Well, you,ve got the Canadian contingent covered...

;-)

211 Frank IBC  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 7:38:08am

Andrew 2 -

Hitler was also against Communism. But does that mean we should have been on his side?

Zulubaby -

Agreed. Slurs cheapen the argument, no matter what side they're coming from.

212 andrew2  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 7:39:00am

#206 Zulubaby

Get over it. The term [bigoted word]s is not as offensive as being called an infidell by 1/3 of the Earth's population.

Do you "Feel" better now that you point out a minor "Offence" that would be meet with puzzlement anywhere in the Islamic/non-multicultural world?

Thanks for your past link to bat Yeór and the Euro-Arab Dialogue.

Don't be a battery operated tool.

213 mommydoc  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 7:48:18am

William and gymnast: I actually knew Keith Olbermann in college. He was a year ahead of me at Cornell and the sports director at the college-run radio station where I spent a semester as a DJ. He was really a good guy, and helped me out a few times as I was learning the ropes.

I have to admit, I'm very surprised and disappointed in his treatment of Michelle Malkin. Some of it may come from the fact that, despite being very bright and articulate, as well as well-connected, he has bounced around alot in the industry. From what I can gather, he has pissed off a number of people and may now be in job-protection mode. He may be having to toe the party line.

Not attractive, but possibly understandable. I'm definitely experiencing some cognitive dissonance here.

214 zulubaby  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 7:51:33am
Get over it.

No, I won't.

Do you "Feel" better now that you point out a minor "Offence" that would be meet with puzzlement anywhere in the Islamic/non-multicultural world?
Don't be a battery operated tool.

Piss off.

215 Cam  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 7:57:35am

#212 andrew2:

Get over it. The term [bigoted word]s is not as offensive as being called an infidell by 1/3 of the Earth's population.

We are Western Civilization. We are bettter than them. I don't want to stoop to their level. If you do, bully for you. But calling a long time poster a "battery-operated tool" is bullshit. If you'd take the time to read z'babe's numerous posts, you'll realize that is one of our best posters.

216 zulubaby  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 8:00:22am

Thank you, Cam.

217 mommydoc  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 8:05:57am

(Joining the fray) I have to agree that "[bigoted word]s" grates badly. Zulubaby is right on this one.

On the other hand, I have no problem with the terms islamofascist or paleostinian. Because they describe behavior, rather than just demeaning the name of an arguably legitimate religious group.

218 andrew2  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 8:13:15am

Zulubaby, all this time I assumed you were a man, you are female.

Has the hot air of SA gotten to you?

I'm just trying to say, all the PC crap in the world doesn't endear you to the [bigoted word]s to you.

It doesn't matter to them what you think. Even thinking of them in totally sterile terms still brings Jihad, Intifada and Dar al Harb my African brother.

So realize that our Western sentiments to their perceived sensitivities are merely a reflection of our Judeo-Christian roots and in no way affects their hatred of us.

By the way, "Piss-off" really pisses me off coming from you Zulu.

219 zulubaby  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 8:18:06am
By the way, "Piss-off" really pisses me off coming from you Zulu.

After how rude you were to me!? Wow. Too bad, andrew. You dish it out you'd better be prepared to take it.

220 Cam  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 8:22:50am

#218 andrew2:

I personally am not trying to endear anyone to me. We are involved in a clash of civilizations and of cultures. I think ours is vastly superior. Slinging schoolyard ephithets is not evidence that we deserve to win. We will win this conflict by holding ourselves high, not slinking into the gutter.

You say:

realize that our Western sentiments to their perceived sensitivities are merely a reflection of our Judeo-Christian roots and in no way affects their hatred of us.

True enough. But it may affect how those not directly involved perceive us.

221 andrew2  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 8:24:25am

#215 Cam

Yea cam. I agree with Zulubaby 99% of the time. But I see that sensitivities are exactly our Achellis Heel in this battle which brute force ultimately will win.

Therefore, I personally don't mind abbreviated terms like "[bigoted word]s"as I don't really think they are relavent, OK kuffir?

BTW Zulubaby, your still "tops" in my book. Sorry I attacked your politically correct residue.

222 Cam  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 8:32:48am

And now for today's chuckle:


http://www.daybydaycartoon.com/

223 andrew2  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 8:39:49am

"After how rude you were to me!? Wow. Too bad, andrew. You dish it out you'd better be prepared to take it."

ZULU

And dish it you can do! I'm sorry. I just get pissed when I hear words being equated with actions.

To me, IF those practioners of the Islamic faith deserved such consideration it would be a different thing. But they often they rely on our trusting nature which they are using to conquer us.

To "relate" to them rather than rejecting them is their long term plan. And calling them "[bigoted word]s"is the least of their concerns.

224 Norwegian kafir  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 8:45:04am
Don't be a battery operated tool.

That was waaaaay out of line, and you should apologize to Zulubaby.

225 evariste  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 8:59:29am

zulubaby, I can't stand "[bigoted word]s" either and lamented when it started showing up on LGF. A profoundly ugly word coming from an ugly instinct. It really gets on my nerves.
And andrew2, get ahold of yourself and have a little respect.

226 WriterMom  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 9:01:43am

"[bigoted word]s" is disgusting. I am totally fine with Islamofacist, though.

227 mommydoc  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 9:09:14am

Cam, thank you for #220 and the cartoon. They were both perfect.

228 andrew2  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 9:11:36am

Norwegian Kafir


"That was waaaaay out of line, and you should apologize to Zulubaby."

Ok Kafir. I do somewhat regret the analogy.

Zulubaby, I just don't want you to feel sorry for the very people that would kill us both. As I said calling them "[bigoted word]s"as an abbreviation ( and slur, just like any other immigrant group had to put up with ) hardly affects people there, only our propagandists who would use mere words to weaken our resolve and ignore their actions.

Norwegan, you would agree that such words mean nothing in the very real world of islamic colonization which you so eloquently write about daily.

229 zulubaby  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 9:15:17am
Therefore, I personally don't mind abbreviated terms like "[bigoted word]s"as I don't really think they are relavent, OK kuffir?

That's fine, andrew, but I find "[bigoted word]s" offensive and I am entitled to my opinion without you being so bloody rude about it, okay?

230 Cam  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 9:18:34am

#228 andrew2:

. As I said calling them "[bigoted word]s"as an abbreviation

"Heeb" is an abbreviation too, and I'm sure that you would not consider that acceptable speech.

231 Millie Woods  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 9:26:08am

A lot of Brits - oops individuals of British origin - refer to mosquitoes as [bigoted word]s.

232 andrew2  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 9:28:20am

My Dear Evariste(#225),

An "ugly" word? [bigoted word]s is an "Ugly" word? Lets be real. Since when is it an ugly word? What is an Ugly word today, anything someone wishes to use against you? And it really is only an abbreviation with some well warrented disdain.

But calling Jewish people "Jooo's" , is OK on LGF.

Apparently self depreciating humor is only ignored when it applies to those able to shrug it off.

Excuse me while I sneeze, I'm allergic to Bull shi*t.

233 Cam  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 9:28:23am

#231 Millie Woods:

I thought that the expression was "mozzies".

234 evariste  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 9:46:49am

andrew2, your self-righteous inability to back off a really stupid point is to the detriment of any lingering respect you might have earned (your calling zulubaby a tool and failing to apologize already wiped it out, but let's pretend you had some left). Yeah, it's so important to be able to say "[bigoted word]s" and freedom is in peril if we can't.

An "ugly" word? [bigoted word]s is an "Ugly" word? Lets be real. Since when is it an ugly word? What is an Ugly word today, anything someone wishes to use against you? And it really is only an abbreviation with some well warrented disdain.

I'm not a muslim, so I'm not sure why you say it's something someone wishes to use "against [me]". It's an ugly word and it comes from an ugly place. If you can't see that, it's probably because you're in that ugly place. Too bad for you.
As for this "abbreviation" canard:
[bigoted word]s: 7 letters.
muslims: 7 letters.
It's not an abbreviation, it's an ugly epithet. "Jooos" isn't an epithet, it's a parody of the way we imagine antisemites carry on when talking about Jews. We're not expressing our disdain for Jews when we say it, we're expressing our disdain for antisemites. It's completely different.
You must sneeze constantly if you're allergic to bullshit, because you're swimming in it.

235 zulubaby  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 9:48:50am
But calling Jewish people "Jooo's" , is OK on LGF.

I find that offensive too and I've stated as much on more than one occasion. By the way, andrew, where I come from

kuffir

is just about the most offensive slur.

236 zulubaby  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 9:50:15am

evariste

We're not expressing our disdain for Jews when we say it, we're expressing our disdain for antisemites. It's completely different.

Very well put, but it still annoys me.

237 zulubaby  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 9:52:21am

andrew2

I just get pissed when I hear words being equated with actions.

Was that what I was doing? I don't like racial slurs. Sue me.

238 WriterMom  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 9:52:23am

I always considered "Jooooos" a totally sarcastic, ironic way of making fun of the people who think that everything is the fault of the Jews. Just like "occupayshun".

239 evariste  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 9:53:14am

I can't stand "Jooos" either, zulubaby, but on aesthetic grounds. It looks stupid, and it's overdone and stale now. I never use it myself, the last time I did was when I was begging bigel to stop saying it :-)
"[bigoted word]s", that one was tired and stale the day they thought it up.

240 zulubaby  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 9:53:21am

WriterMom, that's what it is, you're right.

241 evariste  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 9:56:04am

And the more o's there are in Jooos, the more I wince :-) Three is about as many as I can stand. Two of them to replace the "ew" and one to stretch it out. What do we need 24 o's for?

242 WriterMom  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 9:58:29am

I still think it's funny.

And, it always reminds me of the Sesame Street song-"Would You Like To Buy An "O" For A Nickle". We'd need a lot of nickles for the number of ooooooooooooos that we use.

243 evariste  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 9:59:32am

WriterMom, LOL!

244 zulubaby  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 10:00:33am

evariste

I can't stand "Jooos" either, zulubaby, but on aesthetic grounds. It looks stupid, and it's overdone and stale now.

Yes, exactly.

245 WriterMom  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 10:01:11am
246 WriterMom  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 10:02:44am

Everyone, sing along! I think it's Ernie's song...

247 andrew2  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 10:08:40am

(your calling zulubaby a tool and failing to apologize already wiped it out, but let's pretend you had some left). Yeah, it's so important to be able to say "[bigoted word]s" and freedom is in peril if we can't.


My Dear Everlast (#234).

Please get it right. Number 1, I apologised several times to Zulu. She is entitled to her opinion and has every right to be sensitive to perceived slurs.

Number 2, my point is exactly the opposite of your interpretation.( "Yeah, it's so important to be able to say "[bigoted word]s" and freedom is in peril if we can't") .

What I have been arguing is that names really DON'T matter.


Everiste, have I somehow touched a nerve, I actually think we are in the same stratopsphere.

248 evariste  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 10:17:04am

WriterMom, LOL. Beautiful.

249 evariste  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 10:19:27am

You haven't touched a nerve, you're just annoying me. I don't buy this idea that "[bigoted word]s" is just another word. It looks and smells like an epithet to me. And try not to spell my name "Everlast" and "Everiste". It's in lower case, and it's "evariste".

250 andrew2  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 10:26:49am

241 evariste

The Jooooooooooooooo's!

Sort of sounds like Goooooooooogle, perhaps it a Jewish plot to conquer the internet :-0! !

251 Roger  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 10:49:29am

OT: A quote from Gary Farber of WOC on how he came up with "Something Has Gone Rotten"

I merely spent two minutes pulling a few random illustrative quotes. I have no interest in arguing the specifics of any since thousands are available, and can be found with any given two minutes of effort.

What an analytical researcher the man is. If this is the way Journalism is conducted in main stream media it explains why we are in trouble.

252 evariste  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 11:10:24am

Roger

OT: A quote from Gary Farber of WOC on how he came up with "Something Has Gone Rotten"
I merely spent two minutes pulling a few random illustrative quotes. I have no interest in arguing the specifics of any since thousands are available, and can be found with any given two minutes of effort.

What an analytical researcher the man is. If this is the way Journalism is conducted in main stream media it explains why we are in trouble.

I don't believe him anyway. He's got a longstanding grudge against Charles. "random" and "illustrative", isn't that an interesting juxtaposition? He's saying we're all hateful. I found it interesting that they were talking about "[bigoted word]s" on there too, because here we are talking about how distasteful we find the word. But we're probably not "random" or "illustrative" enough for Gary Ferber.
He can go fuck himself, really.

253 kamil  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 11:11:28am

How come Poland an How come Poland an Strong ally is always so strongly slandered so strongly slandered here?

Poland cowardly? How can anyone with knowledge of recent history make such a claim?

Poland feels it has strong ties to the US since US revolutionary war were a large amount of Polish patriots fought (including the founder of US cavalry), then went back and tried free the people of their homeland and found a constitutional republic.(they defeated the Austrian and Russian armies but lost to the Prussian.).

As to Poland and the Jews in history there was no love lost but a system of government based on laws limited harassment. Poland’s liberal laws were the reason so many Jews settled and lived in Poland. Anti-Semitism has lost any intellectual force after being espoused and carried out by both the Nazis and the Communists which also oppressed Poland, anti-semitism in Poland is the domain of the uneducated and exposing such vies in polite company is seen as a sing of being uneducated idiot.

Rapprochement between Poland and Israel is hindered by people with attitudes like Bigel, and also the non acknowledgment of non-Jewish victims of Hitler. How can someone make a statement that Poles “secretly (and sometimes not so secretly) love Hitler”!!! Almost have of the victims from Poland of the concentration camps been non-Jews, which is an extremely hateful statement! Especially given the fight and resistance they did put up. Why are some of the people that were to be exterminated so hateful to the people that were going to be made slaves?

Poland like the US because of their mostly clean records in WW2 with respect to the Jews do not have to rewrite history tear down Israel or relabel Jews as Nazis to feel clean for the sins of its past.

Poland has a long History of standing up to expansionary Islam as well as a friendship toward the US. As well as a deep appreciation of US and its cowboy presidents, UK and their role in helping end communist tyranny. Strong realpolitic reasons to ally with US, form security concerns to influence. Poland does not have many resources since it is totally changing its armed forces form Warsaw pact conscript army into a professional modern one that can operate inside and with multinational western professional army speaking English, These resources will grow strongly with time however. Poland is not going to go soft and would NEVER!!! act like Spain did.

Kamil

254 Roger  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 11:14:14am

#252 evariste,

He does, frequently:-)

255 andrew2  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 11:48:48am

Kamil, what kind of Polish name is that? Just wondering. But in Central Park, New York City, there is a statue to a Polish King who lead an army into battle.

256 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 11:52:55am
257 Roger  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 12:06:53pm

#253 kamil, before you FOAD, go to

http://www.ushmm.org/
Look for
MOSAIC OF VICTIMS

The whole site is information overload. Read for a while and try again.

258 bigel[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 12:20:55pm
259 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 12:21:35pm
260 bigel[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 12:24:26pm
261 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 12:24:31pm
262 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 12:25:02pm
263 Roger  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 12:49:00pm

#259 ploome hineni,

Well I first came upon that site while doing some research because of someone I worked with having Kamil's attitude. That Muslim someone would only say, the site is just more Jewish propaganda while a Polish immigrant I work with, his eye's lit with fire over it. He never gives details but his dad must have went thru mean times. Had to keep them from discussing it at the same time.

I took Kamil's comment as an opportunity to link the United States Holecaust Memorial Museum.

264 Thom  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 1:09:28pm

Honestly, kamil was probably a situation where a gentle approach could actually have been beneficial. Just blasting him straight out of the gate may have lost us a good foreign contributor who just needed some info to understand why that paragraph was so objectionable.

265 Cam  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 1:18:22pm

#264 Thom:

My thoughts exactly. It struck me that his/her first language was not English and he/she may not have phrased the sentiment quite the way it was intended.

266 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 1:31:36pm
267 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 1:41:12pm
268 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 1:41:54pm
269 Thom  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 1:41:54pm

266 ploome hineni

I didn't say you misinterpreted. I was just trying to say that kamil could have been given the chance to re-examine his views if he had been given the info. He didn't come here like a frothing troll after all.

After that, blast away if he sticks to that crap.

270 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 1:43:33pm
271 Cam  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 1:48:15pm

ploome:

I certainly don't want to get into a pissing match with you, don't get me wrong. I think that the attack on bigel was uncalled for, or perhaps clunkily phrased. Were I Polish, I would certainly be wary about bigel. Bigel wants to nuke 'em all, and bully for him. But he does seem to have a fixation on the Poles.

Yes there were evil, collaborationist Poles, but there were also those that resisted. The Dutch were among the more enthusiastic colloborators. My Dad's Dad was Dutch, and he hid Jews and Resistance members in his barn, at great risk to him and his family. So were bigel to start in on the Dutch the way he does the Poles, I would probably react in much the same way to him.

Re: your links. Yep, evil all. But Kamil didn't reference those people in his/her link, you did.

Finally, I re-itersate what I said earlier. The person's post may not have come out the way he/she intended, due to a language problem. We may have missed an opportunity to sway someone's opinion by attacking him/her.

Ploome, you know I have great respect for you and your posts, so understand I am not attacking you. Hell, I like bigel as well. I just felt that maybe theree was something other than blatant anti-semitism in Kamil's post.

For what it's worth.

272 zulubaby  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 1:52:53pm
... and also the non acknowledgment of non-Jewish victims of Hitler.

Um, what does this have to do with Israel? And why is it the Jews' responsibility to acknowledge this? Is there anything that we're not responsible for?

273 Roger  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 1:53:18pm

#253 kamil,

How can someone make a statement that Poles “secretly (and sometimes not so secretly) love Hitler”!!!

I don't know as much about the Poles situation but I do know that the U.S. could have become a fascist country at one time with the help of Joe Kennedy, the Ambassador to the U.K. and the father of a future president of the U.S. His first son died and was the son he really wanted to be president. There was admiration of Hitler in the U.S. because success is always lauded, especially economic. Democracy was not completely trusted around the world at that time. Many countries came periliously close to turning facists as Mussolini's Italy did.

I'm glad we got John Kennedy later rather than Joe Jr earlier.

274 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 1:57:12pm
275 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 1:59:52pm
276 zulubaby  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 2:00:06pm

My G-d :-(

277 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 2:00:42pm
278 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 2:01:34pm
279 Cam  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 2:07:41pm

ploome:

Point taken. Fucking savagery.

280 Thom  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 2:11:57pm

I'm glad I refreshed before posting my reply to #270, ploome ...

There was something I wanted to say, but now it seems totally inappropriate.

281 Roger  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 2:15:20pm

#266 ploome hineni,

There is another group of Christians who never read and understood Romans 3

3:1 Therefore what advantage does the Jew have, or what is the value of circumcision? 3:2 Actually, there are many advantages.1 First of all,2 the Jews3 were entrusted with the oracles of God.4 3:3 What then? If some did not believe, does their unbelief nullify the faithfulness of God? 3:4 Absolutely not! Let God be proven true, and every human being5 shown up as a liar,6 just as it is written: "so that you will be justified7 in your words and will prevail when you are judged.

The unbelief is referring to Christ.

-----

Just horrific, ploome, horrific. What could have been, we will never know.

282 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 2:24:45pm
283 Cam  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 3:21:49pm

#282 ploome hineni:

ploome, judging by Kamil's lack of a response, I am thinking that he/she may have been intentionally trying to get a rise out of us.

I won't apologize for trying to give him/her the benefit of the doubt, however, the lack of a reasoned response inclines me to think that you were right.

This too shall pass. You say we can and must make the world a better place. I agree, whether it works or not. Many tried and failed to prevent the holocaust, and failed. But even saving one Jew from that horror is a victory of sorts, even if it was a samll one. We cannot stop trying.

I believe that we will win. I believe that good eventually trumps evil, whether in this reckoning or the next.

And ploome

((((((((((HUGS)))))))))

284 warmi  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 3:37:38pm

ploome hineni :

You are linking to pictures of Germans engaging in a genocide in order to prove that Bigel is right about Poles being anti-Semites ?

I am sorry but I have to come to conclusion that you are either a complete idiot or you are purposefully engaging in rewriting history to justify your own prejudices.
There is no other explanation.

285 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 4:34:07pm
286 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 4:35:52pm
287 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 4:45:23pm
288 bigel[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:04:23pm
289 warmi  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:06:27pm

ploome hineni:

"Forty-two Jews were killed and about fifty were wounded."

And that is what you use to equate 3 millions of Jews killed in Nazi concentration camps using systematic and preplanned genocide.

Yeah, there was no difference between Nazis and Poles.


People like you need to die out.
You are no different then a typical Holocaust deniers - you just spin for the other side.

290 warmi  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:12:03pm

"Being such a Jewhating asshole,"

Nah, I don't hate Jews.
In fact I have nothing but admiration for the state of Israel and their perseverance in spite of everything.

On the other hand I do despise idiots and uninformed ignorant, regardless of their ethnicity.
Count yourself in.

291 warmi  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:14:55pm

"Isn't Warmi in Poland?:"

Nope.

Good old Illinois.

German/Polish blood.

Pretty bad huh ?

292 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:42:41pm
293 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:49:16pm
294 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 5:54:05pm
295 kamil  Fri, Aug 20, 2004 8:53:07pm

(264) Thom

My Grandfather lost 7 of 8 brothers, my gamma lost her whole family, on my fathers side half were lost, to the Nazis. I am an instructor in Polish boy scouts my former deceased scoutmaster was an officer in AK captured twice escaped twice including once after months from Auschwitz in a camp created German uniform. As to Nazi resistance even boy scouts fought [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I replied in anger, to that hateful statement, maybe I should not of but how could I let it stand.

I can understand that some Jews feel uncomfortable with Christian symbols at site of Jewish extermination, however millions of Christian Poles died as well. Putting a cross is not intended as an act of insensitivity but as a commemoration of the Poles who died there. Poles should be very sensitive, but Jews should be sensitive to the other victims as well.

As to leftist organizations Jewish and not they and AK fought, they also committed atrocities (on a many orders of magnitude scale smaller than the Nazis) against counter- revolutionaries and their supporters which happened to be vast majority of the anti-Nazi resistance and Poles in general who were not pro-Stalin.

(283) Cam No I wasn’t trying to get a rise out of you guys I was trying to point out a destructive.

(255) I was named after a famous polish poet.
[Link: www.culture.pl...]

Oh BTW
I still support Israel against the barbaric act the Islamist do.

Kamil

296 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Aug 21, 2004 2:06:55am
297 warmi  Sat, Aug 21, 2004 7:32:44am

kamil :

There is no point arguing with people like ploome ( I am not sure bigel is a human being to begin with) so don't bother.

She is out there to prove a point and will ignore any evidence that doesn't fit her versions of the
events.

Furthermore, anyone who even attempts to dispute her mantra is automatically qualified as "anti-semite".

298 Thom  Sat, Aug 21, 2004 7:53:19am

#295 kamil

Well, please stick around. (And please also learn the Jewish perspective on all this. You do not seem to be an anti-semite, but at the same time your information is definitely one-sided which can create terrible problems, as we've seen.)

As far as I know, we have no Polish commenters here and I for one would like to get your Eastern European perspective on the WoT and the islamic invasion of the West.

We could sure use a Jan Sobieski right about now.

But be aware that this happens every time the subject of Poland comes up. And, honestly, it's not difficult to understand why.

(My mother's family is from Poland, btw. I wonder if we're related. LOL. What city are you in?)

299 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Aug 21, 2004 9:21:47am
300 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Aug 21, 2004 9:24:57am
301 Thom  Sat, Aug 21, 2004 9:46:22am

warmi - you've gone way over the line. I think you owe ploome an apology, especially for that "die out" remark.

302 zulubaby  Sat, Aug 21, 2004 9:50:54am
People like you need to die out.
( I am not sure bigel is a human being to begin with)

Lovely, warmi. Way to go.

German/Polish blood.

Pretty bad huh ?

Why don't you read your own words and think about it.

What are you arguing here? Are you denying that any of this happened?

303 zulubaby  Sat, Aug 21, 2004 9:54:10am

kamil (#295)

Poles should be very sensitive, but Jews should be sensitive to the other victims as well.

Sensitive in what way? I'd really like you to explain what you mean because that's the second time you've made that kind of comment. Stop being so cryptic.

304 zulubaby  Sat, Aug 21, 2004 9:57:42am

warmi, the things that you've written are despicable. You don't know what people have been through and what they've seen in their lives. You have no right to make such comments.

You are no different then a typical Holocaust deniers - you just spin for the other side.

Yeah 'cos the Holocaust wasn't bad enough, it needs "spin". If you have an ounce of decency, I hope you're ashamed of yourself.

305 warmi  Sat, Aug 21, 2004 10:21:10am

"Lovely, warmi. Way to go."

Just as lovely as when Bigel denies humanity to anyone but his own kind.
Read his posts.

"What are you arguing here? Are you denying that any of this happened?"

What am I arguing here ?

I am arguing that Nazis are responsible for Holocaust and trying to somehow imply that Poles were willing participants in what was ultimately Nazi crime is just as fraudulent as trying to claim that Holocaust never happened.
Both are lies and both are just as vicious.

" If you have an ounce of decency, I hope you're ashamed of yourself."

Interesting that you have no problem with her implying that millions of innocent people who were themselves victims of Nazi occupation are just as guilty of this heinous crime as are the perpetrators.

" I think you owe ploome an apology, especially for that "die out" remark."

She has no problem carelessly smearing memory of millions of people she knows nothing about.
Why should I care about her feelings ?

Being a relative of Holocaust survivor doesn't automatically come with a pass to spread vicious lies and accusations.

Yeah, 3 millions of Polish Jews were killed during that time - but so were 3 millions of Poles and hundreds of thousands of others.
Trampling on their memory and equating them to Nazis is not right and I won't let people like Bigel and her get away with it.

306 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Aug 21, 2004 10:39:08am
307 warmi  Sat, Aug 21, 2004 11:00:56am

"and wormy thinks Poles killed fighting in a war,
and Jews being gassed and used as medical experimental stock is somehow similar"

First of all, only 600 000 thousand of them died as a result of some sort of military action - the rest were simply exterminated by Germans or Soviets in the same manner Jews were.

You can publish and pontificate over that single pogrom as much as you want.
It happened and it was terribly wrong.


If you don't like poles then it is fine with me . Just make sure you stick to the facts and don't try to bridge the crimes committed by Germans with these committed by others.

308 kamil  Mon, Aug 23, 2004 8:52:09am

298 Thom

I realize my information is one sided but not untrue as far as I can determine.

I live in Edmonton, Alberta Canada now, but my family comes from Zgorzelec (mothers and myself) and from around Gdansk (fathers side).

303 zulubaby

Sensitive in what way? I'd really like you to explain what you mean because that's the second time you've made that kind of comment. Stop being so cryptic.

Well calling Poles Hitler lovers is almost as bad as calling Jews the new Nazis. (79) An Implicit denial that millions of Poles died in concentration camps (306).
And others just in this form.


Kamil

309 piglet  Mon, Aug 23, 2004 11:20:32am

Everyone need to take a deep breath.

Jews lived in Poland for hundreds of years, that is why Hasidic jews still dress like rich polish landloards from the 1800's.

It wasn't always great, but no inquisition.

Yes, there was jew hatred, yes many poles helped the nazis during world war two.

And murdering half dead holocaust surivors returning home after ww2 was unimaginably cruel.

But if a Pole is offering support, we should not reject it out of hand, and please be more akamai in clearifying historical events.

Kasha Varnishkas and potatos latkas, ok, remind me were did we learn to make these.


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