What exactly is a "freeper" anyway?

hahaha the DailyKrust always makes me laugh when I'm having a bad day, although we shouldn't give them more traffic...but still, if you need a hearty guffaw, go read that "analysis" :D

#1 anant

Someone who frequents Free Republic.

And while I'm here, I have a registration question:

I post using Mozilla. Every time I come to a thread, it asks me to choose from a list of user IDs to use. The problem is, every time I post, it adds another entry for "Anant" to my list of possible user IDs, even though I always post with the same ID and password. Does anyone know how to get around this?

The more shrieky they get, the closer they tie themselves to the issue of defending obvious falsified documents. It's weird to see the leftist love of media manipulation so brilliantly exposed.

It's kind of awesome seeing scum like Zuniga suck the pipe like this.

Denial, Kos, It's called denial. Get help.

Oh, and Kos, the signatures are waaaaaayyy off too!

Kos trolls in 5..4..3..2..

#3

What's so bad about Free Republic? (I just glanced at their front page, and they don't seem to be any more right-wing than LGF is)

Do they have any idea how flat stupid this makes them look?

"What is 'No', Alex?"

And by way of the Creator of Worlds (Allah):
A great read and check out the "Clippy".

I am so loving this!

Charles, in a way it's a compliment that they denounce you so vehemently.

FOX Cable's James Rosen just reported he talked to Killian's son who said his dad thought highly of GWB and doubts those memos are authentic. They'll be reporting throughout the day as more comes in.

Don't make their opinion worth more than it is, which is nothing.
IOW who cares what Kos thinks.

Do they have any idea how flat stupid this makes them look?

I'll field that one. Um... no.

Not to mention the question of why anyone would be intervening the cover-up alleged inadequacies in Bush's ANG performance in 1973... nobody knew he was going to run for president 27 years later, much less that it was going to be a campaign issue.

Once again, the Daily Tardass weighs in with lucid arguments and crushing rebuttals

#8

Always consider the source. Also, as I'm using Mozilla I'll let you know if I see your problem replicated on my end.

The Kos is an idiot. Compares apples to oranges and claims we have sour grapes. He doesn't know richard about the military either. Putz.

Apologies if someone posted this:

Even more reasons the letters are fakes:
[Link: ace.mu.nu...]

Ack. I've got the same problem. Looks like you might have to un-check "remember me."

Well done, Markos!

Hearty congrats to you on spending your extensive free time defending the media machine.

Do you wear kneepads when you watch the Nightly News?

Questions Surface About Bush Memos
AP "news"

But Killian's son, one of Killian's fellow officers and an independent document examiner questioned the memos. Gary Killian, who served in the Guard with his father and retired as a captain in 1991, said he doubted his father would have written an unsigned memo which said there was pressure to "sugar coat" Bush's performance review.

The personnel chief in Killian's unit at the time also said he believes the documents are fake.

"They looked to me like forgeries," said Rufus Martin. "I don't think Killian would do that, and I knew him for 17 years." Killian died in 1984.

Someone explain this to me so I don't have to do my own research.
Kos claims that the IBM selectric composer could have made the document, Right?
Now, why not?

AP: Authenticity of Bush Guard memos questioned
[Link: www.cnn.com...]

Spectator: Anatomy of a Forgery
[Link: www.spectator.org...]

Washington Post: Some Question Authenticity of Papers on Bush
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

According to Instapundit - Tim Russert is already blaming Rove. (Did NRO call it, or did NRO call it?!?)

When liberals lose, (and it's inevitable they lose, because they are indeed losers), - they never know how to handle it.
Insults, whining, blaming and complaining are the means they understand, even when the facts are right there starring them in the face.

I can just see Kos, et al sitting in front of their respective monitors with their heads in their hands muttering, "It has to be true, it has to be true..."

LGF is definitely from Missouri.

and Kos ain't got nuthin to show.

The funny thing is that even if they are NOT forgeries - which is virtually impossible - GWB is still going to win the election this November.

This is because nobody gives a shit about his TANG service. Bush didn't make this an issue in his campaign; Democrats did.

OTOH, Kerry made a huge issue out of his Viet Nam service and look what it did for him.

How ironic. The Dems didn't care about military service at all when Clinton was campaigning against Bush Sr. Now it's of paramount importance. Hmmm.

It's hard not to feel confident about the way this election is going to turn out. Bwahahahahaha!!!

From the urban dictionary:

Right-wing political activist. So-called, because it is the nickname of the denizens of the ultra-right wing Web site FreeRepublic.com.

[Link: www.urbandictionary.com...]

Leave it to the left to forge documents by a dead man who isn't alive to defend himself.

Lefties hit bottom - dig.

Israeli troops arrested a Palestinian man carrying a 22-pound bomb in his taxi after he fled and threw the explosives out of the cab's window, a security official said Friday.

Not even an "activist" -- now it's just "a man".

Kos's "argument" requires only one answer:

What YOU need to do is find a typewriter that was in use in the TANG in 1973 which was capable of duplicating Microsoft Word 12-point Times New Roman, with proportional spacing, kerning, and superscripting.

Kos, Reality. Reality, Kos.

You two really need to get acquainted ...

They’re spinning like dervishes over at Daily “Screw Them” Kos; who do you believe, Kos or your lying eyes?

Hell, blaming this on some hexagonal Karl Rove conspiracy is probably a better course of action for the Kossaks. Dispute Charles if you wish Kos (I wouldn't advise it), but be warned. Numerous forensic examiners contacted by multiple news sources (MSNBC, CNN, WaPo) have confimed that the documents are 'most likely' bogus. Many of these examiners have decades of experience analyzing documents in both law enforcement labs and in the private sector. I'd link to them here, but I really don't see the point.

What a jackass....

He is actually arguing that because the 111th Squadron has a "th" in it's name, they would purchase more expensive typewriters with the ability to superscript the aforementioned "th". After all, big Government doesn't do anything on the cheap.

As for the rest of the trolls, the best they can come up with is that GWB looks like a chimp. I'm not Bush's biggest fan, but realize...these people chap their lips on the asses of John Kerry and Dan Rather.

Power to the people.

That guy was claiming that some typwrites actually could make a superscripted th in the early 70's?? Then he says that looking at "know good documents" from the same era show this superscript....but (of course) provides no examples or links.

So I looked around on my own, and found NO SUCH SUPERSCRIPT. Why cant these guys just admit that someone wanted to railroad Bush with this fraud?? It wasnt them, so what the heck do they care?

I guess they want Bush beaten so badly that they will stand by EVERYTHING that puts him in a bad light even if it has been debunked.

Favorite comment on Kos re: AP story:

American Academy of Forensic Sciences, my ass.

So because MS Word does superscripts, it follows that they could not have come from a 1970s typewriter?

It didn't enter her mind that word processors are modelled after typewriters?

They should fire her ass, RIGHT NOW!

Haha...you just can't argue with purveyors of Moore-ian "essential" truths.

Amir, let's get this straight, signatures are different than known, authentic examples. That's a big, red flag (That and Kos is too young to have used a typewriter).
***This is beyond a shadow of doubt.***
If they try to defend this forgery anymore they'll start sounding like Tass or Pravda of the Soviet era defending Korean Air 007.

They won't be believed if they say, "The sky is blue."

Israel Kills Hamas Man, Locks Down Palestinians

And by the way, the Palestinian boy that was killed yesterday, he's not 13 years old anymore, he's back to being 9.

The Gaza incursion -- in which troops have killed three militants and three civilians, including a 9-year-old boy -- was the latest chapter in Israeli military reprisals for suicide bombings that killed 16 people in southern Israel last week.

Israel needs to investigate Nidal al-Mughrabi.

Authentic Document Proves Kerry in Cambodia,
This just discovered by Commissar from FOIA request of official US Navy files:

LOL

#30 Furious J

That everyone defaults to it in 2004 seems a bit damning to me. Throw in the poorly forged signature, and the side by side comparison with a known sample over at Power Line which looks just like you'd expect in a 1970's government memo.

The WaPO headline

Some Question Authenticity of Papers on Bush

should read:

Experts Willing to Defend Authenticity of Papers Mysteriously Disappear in Bermuda Triangle

Markos Zuniga:

:( where's my 15 minutes of fame?

Not even an "activist" -- now it's just "a man".

I'm still holding out for "Palestinian dude".

Instead of pointing laughing, how about debinking the points they are trying to make.

1- they are claiming that the selectric II could do proportional fonts with superscripting.

2- they are claiming that the IBM selectric composer could also have done everything seen in this memo.

3- they are claiming that the font in the memo was available for the executive.

Most people figure the research is pretty much done now that the experts have weighed in, but these are talking points the left is going to try and use to counter so we need to have easy answers available!

#29 zulubaby

Not even an "activist" -- now it's just "a man".

I'm sure there's a reasonable explanation. Maybe he's a (good) Samaritan. That cancelled out the terrorist.

No? Sorry, just giddy with all the other stuff going on.

#36 sean

My experience at LGF is that Charles is usually right. Like when he predicted the "Israeli spy scandal" was a lot of nothing.

Charles says:

See if you can count the lies, distortions, and pathetically ignorant statements in this hilarious post from someone pretending to know what he’s talking about

Well, frankly I'm the first to admit that I don't know what I'm talking about.

I'm peeling and cutting potatoes for Shabbat dinner. If someone could point out the lies and distortions for me I would be happy.

How do we now the memo couldn't have been typed by the aforementioned typewriter.

And why would anyone try to put this over on a populace that, thanks to CSI, CSI:Miami, et. al, are way more forensics savvy than ever before?

.

Instead of pointing laughing, how about debinking the points they are trying to make.

The points have been debunked ad-nauseum both at LGF and at Powerline.

No need to reiterate these points here. I'll just have fun and send out the links.

#10 Sean

"Clippy" the office assistant, LOL!

How about the fact that Ben Barnes OWN DAUGHTER did radio interviews yesterday, denouncing her father and claiming that he is trying to get attention for a new book he has coming out?

How convenient that Killian is dead. Utterly F'in Shameless!!!

#22 amir

Okay.

First, the document is in a proportional font. Very few typewriters around in the 70's had proportional fonts, and those that existed were a huge pain to use and were only used for specialised jobs. Not proof, but enough to instantly raise extreme doubt in any document expert.

Second, the use of special, reduced-size, superscripted "th" characters. (Unfortunately, I can't do this in this comment.) Some typewriters may have had customised "th" keys, but again, this is very unlikely.

Third, and utterly damning, the text is kerned. This is a small adjustment to the spacing between specific pairs of letters to make the text more readable. No typewriter can do this.

Fourth, and extra-double utterly damning: As Charles showed, if you type the text into Microsoft Word with the default settings, you get exactly the same layout. Exactly the same.

Microsoft Word was not available in 1972.

#46 our gal sal

Exactly. With so many people hooked on everything the CBS's CSI franchise to A&E's Cold Case Files to Discovery Health Channel's Dr G.: Medical Examiner, there's a huge interest in forensics of all types.

The debunking has already been done, in great detail, in several of the topics from yesterday.

The simple fact is that it strains credibility way past the breaking point to maintain that a 1972-era typewriter would produce a document that matches in every detail the character spacing, line spacing, line breaks, kerning, and character shapes of a document created with Word in 2004 -- matches so well that overlaying one on the other produces an exact 1:1 correspondence.

#43 killbuckner
#45 amir

Reread Kos' argument again. He offers no proof or links for almost all of his points. Should we take him at his word? Screw 'em.

He goes on to say that there is a typwriter that could do this, but it was very expensive. I seriously doubt that the Texas ANG would spring for such a machine.

The onus is on him and CBS to prove the validity of these documents now that some serious questions have been raised.

If someone produces a typewriter available in 1972 that could create an exact match for these documents, I'll eat it.

There is no such typewriter. The documents in question could only have been produced in 1972 by a typesetter.

Which raises another point. CBS says

60 Minutes consulted a handwriting analyst and document expert who believes the material is authentic.

Now, this is a very obvious fake; I could do an imitation Matisse that would be just as convincing to an art expert as this would be to a document expert, which is to say, not in the slightest.

So is CBS lying, and they never consulted a document expert at all, or is their document expert a retarded hamster?

#49 wong fei hung

I'd go slow with the Barnes's daughter call-in. It was radio, after all... Put that one on the 72-hr. burner.

Besides, who needs that when there's all this concrete visible evidence everywhere?

Charles, you done good...

Yes, an IBM selectric composer could have creatd a very similar document...but not exactly.
And they cost about $3500...in 1972!
This is not a machine that would very likly be used in the TANG.

LittleGreenFootballs, a site which frequently is cited for eliminationist rhetoric and veiled racism

Gee, only veiled racism...

What a jerk!

Well, hell, I typeset memos to file all the time ...

You mean I'm the only one?!

Jed Babbin at NRO had some more points, not that we really need any more.

1. The 4 May 1972 order and the 1 August 1972 memo both have a letterhead for the wrong organization. Correspondence and orders in those days would be issued in the name of the parent organization -- the 147th Fighter Interceptor Group -- rather than the squadron. The letterhead is typed. They used printed ANG letterhead;

2. Orders were issued on the standard USAF orders form. (I still have a stack of my old ones. There's not a "memo" among them). Campenni remembers that orders weren't issued as "memos" like the 4 May 72 document;

3. The Killian "CYA" memo of August 1973 refers to pressure by Gen. Standt. The problem with this is that Standt retired in 1972. Why would anyone be worried about pressure from him?

4. Jerry Killian, according to Campenni, never went near a typewriter. In the Air Force, in those days, notes -- if anyone kept them at all -- were handwritten. That raises questions about both the 19 May 72 and the 18 August 73 memos. And, lest we forget, bureaucrats -- not fighter jocks -- write "cya" memos.

5. Orders -- like the purported 4 May 72 order to take the flight physical - wouldn't normally have been signed by Killian. They would be signed by a senior sergeant "by order of" Killian.

#52 Charles

Yep, just summarising.

But if someone produces a typewriter built in 1972 that could produce these documents, it should be declared a national treasure - probably proof of alien technology or Atlantis or something - so no eating!

So are we going to be seeing on the news a slew of ANG vets talking about the typewriters they used?

LOL. There is a fine line between the sublime and the ridiculous ... and the MSM have just tripped over it.

#22 amir

Now, why not?

1. The Composer still couldn't do superscript notation, or kerning (open a book and look at the letter combination "fi", as in the word "infiltrate"). Notice how the "i" is is tucked inside the "f", and that the "dot" in the "i" is missing? That's kerning.

2. The list price for the Composer in 1972 was about $3500. In 1972 you could buy a new car for that (like a Chevy Malibu or Ford Torino). How many ANG units would spend $3500 for a typewriter? Get real.

3. The Composer required you to type everything twice. Who's going to want to go to all that trouble for a quickie memo? Only an extreme anal retentive.

#16 Perpetual Student

Always consider the source.

???

LittleGreenFootballs, a site which frequently is cited for eliminationist rhetoric and veiled racism

"Eliminationalist"? Is that, like, Retardationist?

#43 killbuckner

Instead of pointing laughing, how about debinking the points they are trying to make.

1- they are claiming that the selectric II could do proportional fonts with superscripting.

But it's so much fun to point and say, "Look at them squirm! Wait...what is that they're grasping for? Straws!"

Nevertheless, this webpage describes in some detail the operation of the Selectric Composer. In order to use the proportional spacing function properly, the user had to type each line twice! Even if such a byzantine, specialized and difficult to use device was in the possesion of the alleged author, extraordinarily unlikely in itself, the likelihood that he would have chosen to go through the effort to create "camera ready copy" in a memo intended for very few eyes, instead of dashing it off in good old Courier, is near nil.

"eliminationist rhetoric"? Does that mean we fall below the level of "Screw them" when applied to murdered fellow citizens?
No?
Didn't think so...

#55

So is CBS lying, and they never consulted a document expert at all, or is their document expert a retarded hamster?

A retarded hamster that was grateful to Kerry for resuscitating him?

If someone produces a typewriter available in 1972 that could create an exact match for these documents, I'll eat it.

I'll taste it first, Charles, to make sure it isn't poisoned.

#68 Ward Cleaver

You have just closed the circle my friend. It is all so clear now!

NRO shoots more holes in the story -

What the Bush Guard Papers Really Say

And there are other, smaller questions. For example, none of the documents released by the White House bears the letterhead "111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron/P.O. Box 34567/Houston, Texas 77034," and yet that is at the head of two of the CBS documents. Perhaps more importantly, on every document released by the White House last February, Killian's name is written, "JERRY B. KILLIAN, Lt. Colonel, TexANG," the last letters referring to the Texas Air National Guard. But on the two CBS documents with Killian's name on them, he is simply called "Lt. Colonel" or "Lt. Colonel/Commander." Judging by the earlier documents, it would have been somewhat out of character for Killian to refer to his rank without mentioning the Texas Air National Guard. Yet that is what he is purported to have done in the CBS documents.

Now, Killian's widow has cast still more doubt on the CBS papers. "Number one, he would not have typed because he did not type," Marjorie Connell told ABC News. "Number two, the wording in these documents is very suspect to me. I just don't believe that, it looks like some things may have been picked up out of a document and then other things just made fictitiously to fill in things, to make them flow. I just can't believe that this is his words, my late husband's words."

I have a few things that I have been thinking about selling on eBay, but was afraid that there wouldn't be any takers. Thanks to dwbh and the diehards at Kos, I'm sure that a tremendous market exists. I can't decide whether to sell my Matthew Brady polaroids, or my videotape of the Gettysburg Address.

The documents must be a fake - there aren't any globular clusters in them!

Sorry - just inspired by your user name, Globular Cluster.

You know, when I first saw those faux-typewriter fonts, I actually thougt, "Hey, that's cute. A Word font for the folks who are nostalgic for typewriters. Hey, I wonder if anyone would be dumb enough to use it to create a make-believe 'old' document ... nah, nobody would ever be THAT stupid!"

Kos is either discounting or ignorant of Charles' credentials concerning first generation desktop publishing. He knows this shit backwards and forwards , it's what he does and has done for a vary long time.
We absolutly have the right person to debunk this forgery.

So because MS Word does superscripts, it follows that they could not have come from a 1970s typewriter?

It didn't enter her mind that word processors are modelled after typewriters?

My microwave is modelled after a cast-iron, coal-burning stove.

Therefore, my microwave uses coal.

... And the whole "CYA" think is so amateurish. It sounds like a grade-school prank.

Drudge is reporting that CBS has launched an internal investigation about the forged memos and Rather is said to be "shell shocked". Good work Charles, your Zionist/Imperialist racist homophobic capitalist pig masters should give you a bonus. Found a great pick of the lizard bounty hunter Bossk [Link: wso.williams.edu...]

Viva la revelucion!

The documents must be a fake - there aren't any globular clusters in them!

If you look hard, you'll see them.

@54 Charles,

Maybe then Killian had his own personal and private typesetter to do his personal memos and notes. *lol

What needs to be done is a investigative time stamped
document that starts from the beginning in detail that covers every nook and cranny of this big stink.

The argument now is why didn't Bush make that physical.
I've noticed the left is sidestepping this question when answered.
I've been pointing people to

[Link: www.allahpundit.com...]

as he's got the information on his blog. It's very simple really.

RWaJ- Thanks for the link. That is exactly what I was looking for.

There have been too many posts in the thread to tell people to go to LGF and see the truth. THese claims are going to come up over and over. Having a nice easy link to point to for specific claims will be very nice.

One important item that Kos managed to "forget" about was the apostrophe issue. Even though half of his rebuttals to other points are somewhat lacking on facts, he doesn't even bother to refute that one.

Charles, I don't know if you saw Nightline last night, but the issue of the memos' authenticity was addressed very clearly, though not in much detail. Of course they said it was "right-wing websites" that were calling the memos into question, but at least they mentioned the main point: that the things look as if they were created with a modern word processor.

And later in the show, Koppel mentioned the possible consequences for CBS/Kerry/the Dems if the material does indeed turn out to be fraudulent.

At which point the Democratic flack he was interviewing said they probably came from the bowels of Karl Rove. (Or something to that effect.)

Hah! Lizards rule!

Charles, I don't know if you saw Nightline last night, but the issue of the memos' authenticity was addressed very clearly, though not in much detail. Of course they said it was "right-wing websites" that were calling the memos into question, but at least they mentioned the main point: that the things look as if they were created with a modern word processor.

And later in the show, Koppel mentioned the possible consequences for CBS/Kerry/the Dems if the material does indeed turn out to be fraudulent.

At which point the Democratic flack he was interviewing said they probably came from the bowels of Karl Rove. (Or something to that effect.)

Hah! Lizards rule!

The forgery is so blatently bad that it's almost like they wannted to get caught. Interesting that this came up only days after the Clintonites got involved in the campaign. I mean, if your going to forge damning documents, you have to figure someone is going to go over it with a magnifying glass. The Dems are pretty incompetent, but that's almost too incompetent to be plausable. Internal sabotage, or is this just a taste of incompetence to come in the unfortunate event of a Kerry administration?

#76 Frank IBC

LOL

#77 Asher Abrams

That's not CYA as in See-Ya, but CYA for Cover Your Ass. I hope I did not insult your intelligence.

Thanks to dwbh and the diehards at Kos, I'm sure that a tremendous market exists. I can't decide whether to sell my Matthew Brady polaroids, or my videotape of the Gettysburg Address.

That's nothing, I've got a complete set of the PowerPoint Presentations used by Ben Franklin at the Constitutional Convention, Thomas Jefferson's Outlook Calendar ("7 April 1795: Booty call with Sally Hemings") and the original Excel Spreadsheet version of Nixon's "Enemies List."

From Drudge:

[Link: story.news.yahoo.com...]

#80 quark2

Good morning young lass.
I'll write a reply to your last email today, hopefully.

Charles.... come out and challange ANYONE to retype the 'memo' with an IBM (or any kind) of typewriter. See if they can get the same thing. Or even anything even close.

I bet they can't, and will never be able to.

As of now, instead of using the middle name 'Forbes', I think I'll refer to the Democrat nominee as:

John 'Forged' Kerry

We'll make enchiladas con queso out of the 1972 IBM Selectric with the Forge-o-matic auto-typesetting feature as soon as Kos sends it to the Lizardoid mess under the Denver Airport.

"screw him" :)

#74 Asher Abrams

The thing is, the idjit didn't even use one of those faux-fonts. He used the Times New Roman ;-)

85 9Iron

I'm wondering about that, too. I heard a caller to Gallagher's show just a little bit ago asking whether this could be Clinton staffers prepping for HRC's '08 run.

Of course they said it was "right-wing websites" that were calling the memos into question,

I first heard about Memo-gate from Koppel's toupee.

I think it's hillarious that people at DU, DailyKos and Moveon.org think it's an insult to call people who frequent Free Republic "freepers" as if they were totally unaware that the ignorant cheesedick websites they frequent are orders of magnitude worse than anything at Free Republic.

I get Freeper and LGFer a lot on Orkut, which I proudly accept. That seems to confuse them especially when I call them "liberals" or "leftists" in return, to which they take extraordinary exception.

@89 RIP Ford

'Morning back at you. :)

By the way, the shop's doing pretty durned good! My other half will be running it on his own for a week or so at the end of this month.

The best part of this will be how Kos flips from defending the memos as authentic to saying that they are such a horrible forgery that it is proof that democrats had nothing to do with it.

[Sorry for the double post, apparently the traffic is still making things hinkey.]

Perry-
I'm putting Rush's show on now, who first exposed me to the whole "Clintons runs the Democratic Party and wants Kerry to lose" theory, I'm sure he'll have an interesting take.

Actually, Ernie, I take that back. If we want to sell to the Kos/dwbh crowd, Ben Franklin's PowerPoint slides are of little interest. Fortunately, I have Lenin's high school book report on "Catcher in the Rye," and a daguerrotype of Karl Marx playing Ms. Pac-Man with Gertrude Stein. That's the kind of stuff Kosphiles and farkheads can't resist.

#98 quark2

Congratulations to you and your hubby! Excellent news. If I ever need a saddle, I'll let you know. 'Course, I need to get a horse first. Minor thing. Geeze, what kind of Texian am I?

101 9Iron

Dang. I've got to get some work done. Life is definitely encroaching on my LGF time today. I'll listen some.

OK, let's take the Kos's assertation that it was Rove behind it. IF that turned out to be true, I'd be the first the say "F'n brilliant!" The dems get such a hard on every time something comes up related to Vietnam, let's see if they actually check the stuff out before putting it out there as proof! Kind of reminds me of the Albright/N. Korea nuclear negotiations!

Both Kerry cheerleaders Talking Points Memo and Kevin Drum of Washington Monthly are ready to leave CBS twisting in the wind.

And yet the Kossaks (Thanks Dirk!) are still bailing...

#97 - I joined Orkut too, but haven't found too much on there that interests me. Other than weblogs like this one, there's not too much for someone who is alternative but not left-wing. If you like, feel free to email me and I'll check out your Orkut page.

Rush leading off with the story, no love for LGF yet.

Furry J and Ernie,
you'se guys is da riot!

What I want to know is… Hasn't anybody else figured out that Mr. Rather has been eliminated by Rove's Black Ops™ (I'm looking at Iron Fist & Reaganite) and replaced by a surgically altered Baghdad Bob?

just sayin…

@103 RIP Ford
*LOL!
Well we've got plenty of them too!

specifically, LittleGreenFootballs, a site which frequently is cited for eliminationist rhetoric and veiled racism

What does this have to do with anything? G-d but those Kosbots are annoying. If you don't love what Islamists are doing to the world, you're a racist. Idiots.

This is so funny because it has so many failings on so many different levels.

Several of them are irrefutable.

I think the most damning is the vertical spacing. Vertical spacing of 13 points is impossible on any typewriter. Period.

So any arguments about this or that typewriter are immaterial.

As Charles states, the only way these memos could have been produced in '72 is by a typesetter.

Even more damming for me is the "switch" between "typewriters". I fail to see why the guard office would have two very different typewriters and that ONLY the memos damaging to Bush are on the special one.

If you line up the documents in a timeline, you see a switch. The Bush resignation letter uses a standard typewriter, the "bad" ones use another. I just don't see that happening.

Also while the military does get good stuff, sometimes, Guard units never get the good stuff first. Why do you think Bush learned to fly the F102 and not the F4, his original unit had the old plane the AF didn't want to fly anymore.

This has been a fun time watching the left try to hold out against the obvious. DU is having a field day, have to admit to dirty pleasures of reading DU.

The ease which Dan Rather & MSM was taken in by these 'docs' is very suspect when you consider how super-scrupulous they were of all of the SBVFT’s claims. For example, Peter Jennings was on WLS radio’s morning show proclaiming that he will not report on the SBVFT because there was “nothing there.” He went on to regurgitate the leftie myths, #1 the SBVFT’s claims were divergent from “official record,” #2 None of the SBVFT served on Kerry’s boat.

How does Rather remain employed? He’s obviously somewhat unhinged.

Rush's take is that the documents we're planed from within the Kerry campaign. More coming....

(BTW - I put stock into what Rush has to say only because he's been able to predict the Dem's actions and responses pretty accuratly throughout the campaign)

OK guys- do we have a link that definitively says that the selectric I and the selectric II could not do proportional spacing? There seems to be some debate on this. The composer myth is pretty well put to rest but on several of the left wing sites right now they are still claiming that the normal selectrics could do proportional spacing.

94/RightWing, oy vey!

85/9Iron and 95/Perry,

I'm concerned about that too, especially after the Nigerian yellowcake thing. I'd like to think our side wouldn't do something like that, but I'll feel better when I know for sure who originated these documents.

The people at the Daily Kos are pointing to superscripting available in other Bush released NG doc's as proof that these documents could have existed.

What they are failing to mention is that those docs are in an entirely different font, and don't appear to have proportional spacing.

The fact of the matter is that many of the features needed to create these forgeries may have been available at the time, but not all in one magic typewriter that the Texas ANG had sitting in a Lt.Col's office.

The documents were supposedly given to 60 Minutes by the Kerry Campaign because they had doubts about the authenticity and wanted CBS to take the bullets if they turned out forged.

Geepers- do you have a link talking about the spacing issue a little more? I have been reading these threads pretty closely but I haven't seen much on the vertical spacing.

#111 zulubaby

specifically, LittleGreenFootballs, a site which frequently is cited for eliminationist rhetoric and veiled racism

What does this have to do with anything? G-d but those Kosbots are annoying.

Annoying, yes. But seriously feeling the heat from LGF:

Higher Beings
1.Instapundit.com (3446) details
2.Talking Points Memo: by Joshua Micah Marshall (2025) details
3.Daily Kos (1841) details
4.Eschaton (1813) details*
5.www.AndrewSullivan.com - Daily Dish (1659) details
6.lgf: would you like fries with that? (1594) details*
7.DRUDGE REPORT 2004® (1473) details
8.The Volokh Conspiracy - Home (1437) details
9.Blogs for Bush (1410) details
10.Boing Boing: A Directory of Wonderful Things (1324) details

Last time I checked LGF was at 10.

From the Kerry Spot at NRO:
RATHER: NO RETRACTION, 'THIS STORY IS THE TRUTH' [09/10 12:21 PM]

Media source in New York says Rather just did an interview with CNN on the street: "I know this story is the truth...There will be no retraction...When people talk about where we got the story they're only doing it because they don't like the story..."

UnF'nbeleivable!

Dan Rather is Freaking Certifiable. Would someone please put him out of our misery. (put out to pasture)

#122

Who are Grandma and Grandpa going to believe?
1) Some "cranks" on the internet
2) Dan Rather.

Media wins. Kerry wins.

killbuckner (#120),

Here ya go.

The vertical spacing used in the memos, measured at 13 points, was not available in typewriters, and only became possible with the advent of computers.

said Bill Flynn, one of country's top authorities on document authentication.

False Documentation?

#124 Dar ul Harbarian

That's why Bush is 10 points ahead in the polls?

Rather is so pathetic, one could almost feel sorry for him. Almost.

The other night he called the latest wildfire out West a "wildlife - er - wildfire."

He's been losing it for years.

If only he'd have the decency to retire...

Rather says the story has to be true because for him, it has to be true. If it's not true, he's finished, CBS News is finished, and Kerry is finished. He's going to end up sounding like Baghdad Bob on his way out the door.

"I know this story is the truth...

Dan Rather

Go ahead and lie on a dead man, Dan.

And while I'm here, I have a registration question:

The same thing happens to me. I have to manually hit "cancel" each time I move to another LGF post.

You've got too go to Drudge and see the graphic under Rather! F'n priceless!

XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX FRI SEPT 10, 2004 12:01:25 ET XXXXX

RATHER DIGS IN: THE DOCUMENTS ARE AUTHENTIC

CNN TRANSCRIPT:

CBS by the way, though, is standing by its report, and now some sound from the CBS news anchor Dan Rather.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAN RATHER, CBS NEWS ANCHOR: I know that this story is true. I believe that the witnesses and the documents are authentic. We wouldn't have gone to air if they would not have been. There isn't going to be -- there's no -- what you're saying apology?

QUESTION: Apology or any kind of retraction or...

RATHER: Not even discussed, nor should it be. I want to make clear to you, I want to make clear to you if I have not made clear to you, that this story is true, and that more important questions than how we got the story, which is where those who don't like the story like to put the emphasis, the more important question is what are the answers to the questions raised in the story, which I just gave you earlier.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

Just can't believe anything you read in the papers! Check out the AP story, pay special attention to the headline and then the last sentence:

Kerry and Clinton Have Another Long Talk

Thu Sep 9, 9:24 PM ET

By NEDRA PICKLER, Associated Press Writer

NEW ORLEANS - Days after Democrat John Kerry (news - web sites) and former President Clinton (news - web sites) had a lengthy, late-night telephone chat to discuss campaign strategy, the two were at it again on Thursday. Only this time, politics weren't involved, says a Kerry aide.

Kerry just wanted to check in and see how Clinton was doing as he recuperates in a New York City hospital after heart bypass surgery earlier this week, said Kerry spokesman David Wade.

Before giving a speech Thursday to the National Baptist Convention, Kerry said he had spoken to Clinton and that the former president said to say, "Hello."

Members of the country's largest predominantly black denomination cheered loudly at the mention of Clinton's name.

Wade said the conversation between the two Democrats was brief.

Just a pedantic font-geek addendum:

When the letters in "fi" blend together, that's not actually kerning-- it's a "ligature". Some fonts have special characters for "fi" and "fl"; on the Mac, there are special Option+key combinations to create them. But Word generates the ligature automatically when those two letters appear next to each other, and breaks it into individual characters if you delete one.

Needless to say, a typewriter could never do this.

OK guys- do we have a link that definitively says that the selectric I and the selectric II could not do proportional spacing? There seems to be some debate on this.

The Selectric and Correcting Selectric II DID have proportional spacing, but it looks nothing at all like what we see in the fake memos. They had a very simple one-, two-, and three-space system: I = 1 space, B = 2 spaces, and M = 3 spaces. The letters in the memos have 48 different spacings (kerning) which exactly matches the Microsoft Word spacing, as shown in Charles' Word document. And Times Roman was not one of the fonts available, either.

BTW, my mother has a Correcting Selectric typewriter. I should see if I can type a copy of this and see exactly how much different it actually looks. I've not seen this done on any of the websites covering this.

someone needs to come up with the word to describe the moment at which the left stops jumping over hurdles to say that the memos are authenitc and starts claiming that they are such obvious forgeries that the democrats could never have had anything to do with them. There just has to be something to describe the collective thoughs of democrats who will beleive on thing then the next moment go completely opposite in the face of a fact.

Late to this thread, but..

This guy at Kos is saying what, exactly? That it was indeed possible that through some magical alignment of the planets that Col. Killian had the exact model of typewriter, with the exact font, and the exact superscripting feature, and the exact proportional spacing, and the exact same text-centering feature that could exactly mimic a 21st century document produced by MS Word?

Hmm..yeah, ok dude. Whatever you say.

Charles, the poster at the topic you linked to claims the "IBM Executive" is a likely candidate to be the machine were this document, if real, was written. Did you debunk that possibility already?

The White House is declining to comment on the veracity of the documents. Many Democrats are worried that if they are found to be forgeries, it will be a setback for Sen. John Kerry's campaign to defeat Bush in November.

There you go, JFinK, shooting yourself in the foot.

Again.

Incidentally, he forgot to explain why the document was typed on 8.5X11 instead of 8X10.5 used at the time.

Charles, was the Kerning option turned on in your Word when you did the copy example?

#136 - The operative phrase, I believe, is jumping the shark.

Since the Kossacks and farkheads have shown themselves to be gullible idiots, let's take advantage.

First of all, let's get a domain name with a name like Victory04Kerry dot org and send out a very official email to everyone on those sites.

Attention Kerry Voters.

With the 50/50 split in this country, it is vitally important that you get out and support John Kerry so that we can make America Be America again.

Therefore, it is vitally important that every vote comply with all legal standards. The Rethuglicans, in an effort to steal this election like they did in 2000, are participating in a vast scheme to cover up a recent decision by the Federal Election Commission, in order to disenfranchise millions of Democrat voters.

In order to avoid a repeat of the 2000 Election debacle, and to comply with the recommendations of the United States Civil Rights Commission, the Federal Election Commission has ordered that the voting period be extended to two days. Furthermore, the commission has ordered that Republicans vote on November 2 (Tuesday) Democrats on November 3 (Wednesday). Independents may vote on either day, however, if you are a Democrat and you vote on November 2 (Tuesday) YOUR VOTE WILL NOT BE COUNTED. You must wait until Wednesday, November 3rd, in order for your vote to count.

The Rethuglicans will try to hide this information, and the media conglomerates will not publicize it, and may even try to misinform you. DO NOT TRUST THEM. The Kerry Campaign Needs EVERY VOTE TO COUNT. So, make sure you cast your vote for Kerry/Edwards on NOVEMBER 3, 2004.

#143 V the K

Since the Kossacks and farkheads have shown themselves to be gullible idiots,

No, no, no. That's Farkers. And not all of them are idiots, just most of them. I do have a few cohorts over there.

;^)

BTW, how have you been? I haven't seen you 'round here lately.

I was in the US early in 73. I bought then my first pocket calculator, the cheapest available, for U$ 75.
I remember that, at that time, that was more or less what one paid for 3 nights in a Hilton or Sheraton double-room.
Someone above mentioned a machine the price of which was U$ 3.500 in 72. In today's terms that would mean at least ten times more: U$ 35.000. What National Guard office (and officer) would have immediate access to such an expensive machine?

If nothing else, this controversy demonstrates that the left-media conformist rank and file, not just the leadership, is composed of preferential liars.

The strawmen, appeals to authority, and misleading half-truths that characterize the left-media defense are too obvious to fool anyone literate enough to use a computer in the first place. The entire advertising/media/activist continuum is a specific culture of lies, deception, and power-seeking; its adherents are uniformly complicit in inciting violence and genocide; and they should indeed be eliminated.

#8 Anant

Couple of problems with Free Republic:
1. It is infested with creationist nutcakes, who are as bad in their own way as the kool-aid drinkers at Kos and a great deal more resilient.
2. It still harbors some old-fashioned right wing antisemites, an idiot calling himself "Henderson Field" being a prime example. HF asserts that only native-born Christians with English names are actually Americans.

Otoh, it is an excellent alert source for breaking stories since there are thousands of postings everyday and anything of any significance at all (and a great deal besides) will be addressed almost as soon as it appears in any public outlet.

Charles, Zuniga has posted a rather detailed discussion of why he, or someone he trusts, believes that the document could be genuine. Yes, he did include some gratuitous insults.

But look at your reply. It is devoid of substantive refutation, consisting purely of gratuitous insults.

That's no way to win an argument. I've learned that the hard way, both on this site and elsewhere. You should learn it too.

#150 Gordon

Charles' refutation is every other damn thread on this topic, including comments!

Didn't see this link in this thread but I might have missed it. Sorry if it's a duplicate.

Here's proof that the memo wasn't produced in the IBM Composer:

[Link: shapeofdays.typepad.com...]

Something I haven't seen mentioned is that the single-digit dates on the three forged memos with single-digit dates have a zero in front of them. On all the known-legitimate documents, single-digit dates do not have a leading zero.