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Typewriter Repairman Promoted

Mon, Sep 13, 2004 at 6:42:38 pm PDT

Yesterday, TIME Magazine identified Bill Glennon as a former typewriter repairman.

Today, CBS’s latest denial features Bill Glennon prominently as a “document expert.”

UPDATE at 9/13/04 7:00:32 pm:

And, as several LGF readers have pointed out in email (and I just confirmed), the other “expert” trotted out by CBS, Richard Katz, said:

“There is one document from May of 1972 which contains a normal ‘th’ at the top. To produce that in Microsoft Word, you would have to go out of your way to type the letters and then turn the th setting off or back over them and type them again.”

This is an improvement. They’ve gone from being ignorant about the existence of Word’s automatic superscripting feature to being ignorant about the dead simple way to defeat it.

As you’re typing a phrase like “187th,” you simply leave a space between the ‘7’ and the ‘t.’ If you later (say, after typing the rest of the memo) decide it doesn’t look quite right, you click to put the cursor there and hit the Delete/Backspace key.

One click and one key press. I’ve gone a lot farther out of my way than that, just answering this silly flimflam.

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182 comments

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SoCalJustice Mon, Sep 13, 2004 4:45:27pm

But Bill Glennon, a technology consultant in New York City who worked for IBM repairing typewriters from 1973 to 1985

Typographical Systems Engineer, if you please. ;-)

Free Speech Is Only For über-Libs Mon, Sep 13, 2004 4:45:55pm

yeah - but this holy all-knowing typewriter repairman is a Democrat, so his credibility is shot to hell.

///strict CBS policy in interviewing ANY person who might have something nice to say about Bush.

fat.elvis Mon, Sep 13, 2004 4:47:06pm

The Maytag repairman told me Bush will win big.
He hasn't worked a day in his life.
Funny I think he's right!

daNightman Mon, Sep 13, 2004 4:47:25pm

So who was this Richard Katz person that was the second member of todays Expert Ambush fire?

Cam Mon, Sep 13, 2004 4:48:24pm

LOL.

This reminds me of when I was going to University and pumping gas at night to pay for it. I always told chicks that I was a "Transport Facilitator."

I don't think that many of them bought it.

;-)

JohnAnnArbor Mon, Sep 13, 2004 4:49:01pm

Actually, repairing typewriters probably takes some skill. I've had trouble more than once getting Selectrics to work.

But REPAIRING them and being and expert in the documents they put out are two different things.

Paul Mon, Sep 13, 2004 4:49:28pm

Bill Glennon, typrewirter repairman, techology consultant, document expert, Renaissance Man.

Gretchen Mon, Sep 13, 2004 4:52:02pm

I can sharpen pencils so I guess that make me a handwriting expert.

Smapty Mon, Sep 13, 2004 4:52:35pm

Do we have people who can reach Bill Glennon?

JohnAnnArbor Mon, Sep 13, 2004 4:54:18pm

Allahpundit has a new take on why one memo says OETR instead of the correct OER: the forger may have been prompted by the same error on an anti-Bush website:

[Link: www.allahpundit.com...]

Lady of Shalott (ylreveb) Mon, Sep 13, 2004 4:54:58pm

Lt. Col. Killian's typewriter has Finally been found. Simple, really.

Just the thing for casual memos, if you want that proportional spacing and centered heading.

Skippy Mon, Sep 13, 2004 4:56:08pm

Argh...so freakin' what!

There's 4-color printouts today. There were 4 color printouts in 1973. That doesn't mean a great .jpg scan of a 1973 Roberto Clemente is the same things as a real one.

Sheesh.

Innismir Mon, Sep 13, 2004 4:56:29pm

I must say, typewriter repairmen have some "l33t sk1llz", but I'll agree that this does not classify him as a 'document expert'.

Giving the guy the benefit of the doubt, CBS asked him, "Can a Selectra do X, Y, and Z?" to which replied, "Oh yeah, sure!". Of course, if we asked 'real' questions about the document, he would say "Hells No!"

LSD Mon, Sep 13, 2004 4:56:36pm

Ok mister Typewriter Repairman...REPRODUCE THIS DOCUMENT on said typewriter, NOW...without delay.

Dan Rather is a poor excuse for afterbirth.

farblonjet Mon, Sep 13, 2004 4:57:10pm

There is a big difference between being able to repair a typewriter and legitimately being able to authinticate a document.

I can draw stick figures. that makes me Rembrandt

Lady of Shalott (ylreveb) Mon, Sep 13, 2004 4:58:17pm

When Lt. Col. Killian wasn't typing his own memos on letterpress machines on the weekends, he was engraving the Orders of the Day on grains of rice.

Poor guy must be revolving in his grave.

rabidfox Mon, Sep 13, 2004 4:58:37pm

OT: NewMax is running the full article. There really isn't a website for me to llink to but this is the money quote:

Presidential candidate John Kerry promised over the weekend that he would "take on the terrorists" who attacked the U.S. on 9/11 by forcing them to obey America's gun control laws.

We can't keep ANY weapon out of the hand of ordinary criminals, but Kerry thinks he'll be able to keep assult weapons out of the hands of terrorists! Right.

levi from queens Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:00:11pm

I find nothing on this guy in google. But aren't there lots of recognized experts in type recognition? Why didn't CBS talk to one of these, rather than a former typewriter repairman?

I will however believe him if he picks up the 37,900 from Defeat John-John. linky

ac halle Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:00:39pm

Oh, good.
I can sleep tonight, knowing that typewriter repairman is on duty.
We are covered...
With ink.

Smapty Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:03:02pm

Hey, hey, hey...

Why not forget about CBS for nwo and focus our efforts on USA Today?

They've said they've gotten the same docs independantly of CBS...so, they are in exactly the same position to authenticate or debunk those memos. Thier source may be the same...but it doesn't mean they have to come to the sam econclusion as CBS!! I think this may be the better strategy...as they've yet to dig themselves into any kind of credibility hole. Plus, their audience is pretty broad...so they'd be much more sensitive to any appearance of media-bias.

Lets turn them against each other. :D

Geepers Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:03:13pm

Did I miss something? Did Bill Glennon ever say that these documents are authentic?

Or just that is was "possible".

Mashiki Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:03:49pm

Esh...this is what is considered objective and construtive journalism these days.

I'm glad these are the people going out and telling us all about the world and how bad it really is...

DarthBrooks Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:04:21pm

The only "positive" aspect of tonight's episode of Why Dan Is Right and Everyone Else Is Wrong is that at least Dan didn't wave an infant's corpse around on-screen to make a point.

Of course Dan's avatar Byron Pitts had that lined up for the *next* segment.

Dan's really certifiable.

LSD Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:04:58pm

Joe Scarburough just TOLD Dan and CBS to come CLEAN...MSNBC

TS Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:05:05pm

#11 Lady of Shalott (ylreveb) -LMAO That was hilarious!

SoCalJustice Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:05:09pm

This has probably already been posted somewhere, but just in case:

Dan Rather Vindicated!

gorim Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:05:14pm

Hey Charles! (This is my first post)

People will believe what they see. The overlay gif of the disputed killian documents and the Microsoft word that you typed is the most powerful convincer. My feeling is that this should always have prominent play on the website and elsewhere on the net. The more people can see this, the more people will know the BS for what it is coming from CBS and the other political operatives from the left.

Just my two cents.

The Lone Platypus Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:05:54pm

It's depressing the lengths to which the LLL is willing to go to convince themselves these documents are real. I just came across this blog, run by professional designers who appear from their bios to be old enough to understand the difference between a 1972 typewriter and Microsoft Word, and yet they have gone well out of their way to rationalize the comments from The Daily "Screw You" Kos as having proven that, somehow, no matter what, "We can go to bed tonight knowing that George W. Bush is not telling the truth."

Design Observer: Font Forensics, Or Whether George W. Bush Is Hiding Something

(To be fair, the article was written two days ago. But there's only one newer post on the blog, and it has nothing to do with the CBS forgeries, so I can only conclude the author's opinion has not changed.)

Kot Begemot Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:07:32pm

You can also hit Ctrl-Z after Word converts the th to superscript, and the th will revert to regular letters.

J.D. Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:07:49pm

You know, you have to hand it to IBM. Nothing ever went wrong with those things. Really. Periodically, they would schedule an annoying cleaning that kept you from getting anything done temporarily, but I think that was just to give them something to do. Like Acuras when they first came out and the service departments nearly went broke.

rc Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:07:55pm

More reflections from Bill 'Cliff Clavern' Glennon:

'Yeah, ahh, there Normy. It's a little known fact that before I became a successful postal delivery engineer, that I was the Vice President of the AOL Time/Warner Pre-Millenial Document Analysis Divison in 2004...Well it may be your opinion that I was only quoted as an ex-typewriter repairman but... Well, yeah, we weren't exactly analyzing documents, but ahh, you know, for, ahh, 15 minutes there...'

LSD Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:10:39pm

MSNBC now:

Bob Zelnick suggests CBS produce the documents and have it scutinized.

evariste Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:10:42pm

Charles, did part of this entry go missing? I'm not sure what the point of it is.

Yesterday TIME Magazine identified Bill Glennon, featured prominently as a “document expert” in CBS’s latest denial, as a former typewriter repairman.

...and what? From there it goes right to the update and I'm confused.

evariste Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:11:59pm

::slaps forehead:: Oh! The promotion is CBS calling him a "document expert"! Sorry, a little bit slow on the uptake.

G.W. Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:12:09pm

From the CBS news story.

Richard Katz, a software designer, found some other indications in the documents. He noted that the letter "L" is used in those documents, instead of the numeral "one." That would be difficult to reproduce on a computer today.

I don't know anything about typesetting, but I typed a numeral 1 in my version of Word and a letter l next to it. Then, I magnified it to 500%, and I couldn't discern any difference. Aren't these the same in Times New Roman?

G.W.

Charles Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:12:17pm

evariste: the point is that he's been suddenly promoted by CBS from "former typewriter repairman" to "document expert."

daNightman Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:12:41pm

I found a Richard Katz that maintains the Cetus Links for Visual Foxpro. The show mentioned this guy as a "software developer," so I wonder if this is him.

http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_visual_foxpro.html

SoCalJustice Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:13:47pm

(#33) evariste

I'm confused

You must have had a really, really good weekend. ;-)

Cam Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:13:48pm

#34 evariste:

Sorry, a little bit slow on the uptake

Stay away from that Canadian weed, bro. Shit'll make your ears ring...

;-)

Havoc Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:16:09pm

Ed Moran was CORRECT -- it was a "Buzz Kill" effort by DNC operatives, official and un-official,

Tom Maquire debunks the AWOL story accusing the Media of being AWOL Maquire uses three Alabama Guard Eyewitnesses

LFG and three other Blogs debunk poor Forgeries of Memos

Does the DNC Care ? Ask Zell

Desso Studios Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:17:55pm

I graduated from college with a BS in Aerospace Technology. The first job after I graduated was digging ditches to run cables for satellite systems. I referred to myself as a "SUBTERRAINIAN PATHWAYS ENGINEER"

Bet ol blather would like to take some lessons at digging himself out.

(pathners 7 greenbay 3)

Wurm Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:18:08pm

[Link: users.cis.net...]

Yes we know Bush was removed from flight status. That is a fact. An undisputed fact.

Look at the date...

Mebby the fancy typewriter broke???

evariste Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:18:41pm

Charles, a little rewording might be in order. Not that I dare to criticise your writing which is always brilliant, but the point of this entry initially eluded me and it might happen to someone else. eg:

Yesterday, TIME Magazine identified Bill Glennon as a former typewriter repairman.
Today, CBS’s latest denial trumpets Bill Glennon prominently as a “document expert”.

song_and_dance_man[deleted] Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:19:23pm

evariste Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:19:38pm

SCJ, Cam, heh ;-)
OK, I'm working on something, I was just popping in here for a moment. Back later :-)

Paul Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:21:48pm

#41 Desso

Packers 10, Panthers 7

AlexM Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:22:06pm

Who wants to bet that since CBS has failed to pull the wool over our eyes with forged documents, that they're busily forging in their basement a customized typewriter (with a big red sign on the side that says "1972") that produces documents which look exactly like those produced by Microsoft Word?

They've gone this far with their lie. Why not go all the way?
They obviously think that the American public is stupid enough.

Charles Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:22:23pm

evariste: genius. Active voice, always better.

evariste Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:25:43pm

::glows:: :-)

Free Speech Is Only For über-Libs Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:26:11pm

This Stanley Kurtz piece is rather *cough* telling.

(sorry if it's already made the rounds)

Free Speech Is Only For über-Libs Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:27:10pm

(it has - not, it's)

Dean Douthat Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:28:22pm

There are now two definitive pieces of information that have emerged from software engineers who were involved in TrueType and from experts in Microsoft Word.

1) TrueType was invented by Apple in 1989 and licensed by Microsoft for Word. It incorporates patented technology that is flat impossible for any device, mechanical or photographic to reproduce before 1989.

2) Microsoft Word uses "Optical Centering" rather than geometrical centering. This is a complex algorithm that takes into account weights of the letters in the text to produce a centering that looks better than strict geometrical centering. Again, it is flat impossible for any system or device, mechanical or photographic, in 1973 to produce this effect.

The precise overlay of TrueType in the body and centering in the headers are absolutely impossible in 1973. GAME OVER

[Engineer] Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:28:32pm

#35 G.W.

don't know anything about typesetting, but I typed a numeral 1 in my version of Word and a letter l next to it. Then, I magnified it to 500%, and I couldn't discern any difference. Aren't these the same in Times New Roman?

Look again. The number "1" is shorter than the letter "l" Also, the number is given a complete character space while the letter "l" is given a much smaller space.

Free Speech Is Only For über-Libs Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:32:43pm

If they layer the bull just right, they can continue to add layer upon layer to their partisan crap cake.

How stupid do they think we are?

Desperate fools.

SoCalJustice Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:36:32pm

Looks like there's 11 new entries (and counting) to add to the CBS Killian Document Index thread from earlier today.

T. Jefferson Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:37:23pm

Up In Smoke -- C&F

Free Speech Is Only For über-Libs Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:38:50pm

Screw Rather. It's TIME to roll out The Rather/Saddam interviews.
Rather just loves uncle Saddam. Poor misunderstood murderous dictator.

J.D. Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:40:19pm

How stupid do they think we are?

I don't believe they think enough about "us" to even give it a serious thought. One thing they are sure of, though, is that they are very smart.

Another Thought Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:41:52pm

This "l" versus "1" issue is discussed here:
[Link: blindpig.blogs.com...]

and here:
[Link: www.speakeasy.org...]

As you can see, this issue has already been vetted. In fact, the point made is that the forger used an "l" to defeat MS Word auto superscripting, whereas with other instances inserted a space between the number and the suffix "th" or "st"...

So this use of the "l" is simply another proof of forgery...and does not bolster Rather's case at all.

Shiplord Kirel Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:42:04pm

OT but good news

The car-swarm custom turned lethal for a Paleo journalist in Baghdad yesterday, mostly because the "car" in this case was a disabled Bradley fighting vehicle.

song_and_dance_man[deleted] Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:42:12pm

JWM Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:43:22pm

In MS Word, type any number followed by th. Hit the space bar, and it automatically superscripts. Click the Undo arrow, and the superscript reverts to a normal th. I just learned that in adult school computer class the other day. Very cool stuff, huh?. Too bad the guys who wrote the memo didn't go to adult school.
JWM

peace be upon me Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:43:46pm

A pan-Republican website names "Mary Mapes" as person who received the leak for CBS. Is that new information here?
[Link: www.gopusa.com...]

Their news provider:
[Link: www.talonnews.com...]

rosh Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:43:51pm

Fred Barnes on Fox tonight pointed out something we haven't thought a lot about:
If Jerry Killian typed a memo and put it in his personal file and it sat there for a few decades, at what point would it have gotten taken out and had like 30 copies of copies made?
I mean maybe you make 30 copies of the original and then you make a copy off a copy or something.
But a copy off a copy off a copy x 15 or 30? When does that ever happen to an old filed away forgotten memo?

G.W. Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:44:21pm

#53 [Engineer]

Thanks! Indeed.

Still, what's the "expert's" point in the CBS piece? That it is difficult to type an "l" instead of a "1"? Or is it that the character has the height of the "1" but the spacing of the "l"? Can this be verified?

G.W.

Dan Dare Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:46:42pm

Look it's not hard to guess why it's taking so long for C- BS to admit that they were fooled.

They've spent the last 5 days trying out every old typewriter they can find on eBay to see if they can somehow duplicate the animated gif image.

They've probably got half their staff from the janitor upward working on the emergency project.

I'll bet that the market price of old pre-1972 era typewriters just shot through the roof. Good time to sell your old typewriter if you've still got one stashed in the bottom of a cupboard somewhere.

rosh Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:47:02pm

63 peace be upon me
Mary Mapes is the producer of the 60 Minutes II segment that started this sh*tstorm.
She also produced the original Abu Ghraib segment. She's been a producer with Rather for some years.

Bob Munck Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:47:43pm

I've noticed that several of the memos have the phrase "1st Lt. Bush" and that the "st" may or may not be superscripted, even when there is no space between the "1" and the "st". At least one of them has that phrase more than once in the same memo, and is inconsistent in its treatment of the "st". Word processors aren't inconsistent in low-level functions of this order. If a person were forging the memo and realized that superscripting might be a problem, they could manipulate the typing sequence or the settings of the word processor to prevent superscripting, but wouldn't they do it consistently? Given that they'd realized it could be a problem?

On the other hand, a clerk or secretary typing a memo from a handwritten note or from dictation might well be inconsistent, due to inattention, laziness, or boredom.

AG in Houston Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:48:31pm

A typewriter repair man being called a "document expert" is akin to a busboy being called a Dining Room Maintainence Technician

JohnAnnArbor Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:48:52pm

#64--

I said that a while back, and some others have too. There are SO MANY things wrong with the memos it's hard to keep them all straight.

Quilly Mammoth Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:49:12pm

The minutiae of the technicalities is becoming mindnumbing.

Let's stipulate that there _is_ a typewriter available in the early 70's that could do this. So what does that mean?

Did the Guard really shell out that kinda dough for a LTC to type CYA memos?

Did he really spend the time necessary with a typewriter ruler to _perfectly_ center the header?

Did he routinely spend a freaking _hour_ making a perfect copy for a personal file?

Was the superscript "th" so important that he would _change_ the freaking _balls_ to do so...on a specially ordered typewriter that could actually do it?

Jeez...this is _exactly_ what the Moonbats want. And John Kerry gets to stand behind the flag for 100 days of, at anyone's best guess, mixed results.

Meanwhile the Radical Islamic Fundamentalists are killing children and we argue over the proportional fonting and superscript ability of a make believe typewriter.

Somehow I don't think the RIF's care an awful lot about some bullcrap that happened thirty odd years ago. Brought up so that the Democrat Party can skewer the current Commander-in-Chief. A party whose current presidential hopeful lied in front of the Senate for his own personal aggrandizement, who has consistently voted against supporting the troops..even in a war he voted for...and who thinks our best foreign policy is one drafted in Paris and Berlin. Is it just me, or can anyone else see Baghdad Bob when Blather speaks?

It's a forgery. Period, end, dot. Can we get back to the businesses of exposing Kerry for the socialist swine he really is?

a noble vision Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:49:39pm

Quiz time, LLL lurkers!

"Technology consultant" is to "typewriter repairman"

"environmental technician" is to "___ collector."

Good "expert" to hang your hat on, you sniveling morons.

levi from queens Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:49:57pm

63 PBUM-- it is also news that Mary Mapes is the person who acquired the abu ghraib photos for CBS -- which is why I never watch them (as a matter of principal--formerly I never watched them as a matter of taste). The decision to publish those photos was based upon the calculus that the value of undermining the President was greater than the cost in American lives which would surely be paid in their aftermath. I wonder if they think they got their moneysworth.

Beagle Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:52:12pm

#5 Cam
You were a petroleum-based transportation specialist.

#54 FSOUL

How stupid do they think we are?

Very is my guess. The cost of elitism and partisan bias is being blindsided by independent thinkers. I will give Rather credit for acting unflappable when he has no support among real experts. Other outlets are doing yeoman's work for CBS, so there is no reason for Rather to cave yet. So long as it seems like there is some evidence for the documents being legitimate, SeeBS will hang on to their thread.

Throbert McGee Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:52:52pm

Did Bill Glennon ever say that these documents are authentic?
Or just that is was "possible".

The point is, if you say "possible" without adding "but it would've been awkward and time-consuming even in the best of circumstances," then you're leading the audience to conclude "authentic."

evariste Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:54:50pm

AG: more like a busboy being called a restaurant interior designer.

Judith Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:55:58pm

Showed the memos to my husband. He's 60. Spotted it as a fake right off because he used t have an old selectrix.

Was discussing this with my kids. My boys are 20 and 23 and my daughter is 18. They didn't get it. Not for a second.

Fortunately, hidden in the recesses of our basement is -drum roll- an ancient typewriter. Well not that ancient as it is an electric brother. I demonstrated. My kids watched in awe.

The middle one said "So how do you change fonts on that thing?"

"Easy," the older one said. "It has an alternate set of those silver key thingies to snap in, right?"

I explained you don't change font.

My daughter asked, "Why does the delete key say 'backspace'?

This led to a discussion of white out, typewriter erasers, typit tape and all those other things the never worked worth a damn. This led my daughter to comment "It's a wonder anyone ever got anything done in the olden days.'

I am SO old and they are SO young and the forger must have been about 21 years old.

So what is Dan Rather's excuse???

pat Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:56:16pm

So make Glenn available for examination by the 34,5678 other experts that think he is a fool.

Elcid Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:57:13pm

“document expert.” Umm does this come with a cushy office at cbs HQ?

AG in Houston Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:57:28pm

Evariste

Exactly.

Pat

What the hell kind of number is 34,5678?

SoCalJustice Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:59:23pm

TIME Magazine identified Bill Glennon as a former typewriter repairman.

Relax, alright? My old man is a ~~television~~ typewriter repairman. He's got the ultimate set of tools. I can fix it.

/Channeling Spicoli

gbl Mon, Sep 13, 2004 5:59:53pm

Don't forget that MSM also considers Janeane Garofalo a "foriegn policy expert".

Another Thought Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:00:16pm

The one case where auto-superscripting was defeated was using the "l" instead of the "1"...

So this is one more piece of evidence that these are forged...

Of course, they don't mention the other instances where a space was inserted between a number and its suffix "th" or "st"...

Any idiot can see that these are forgeries...CBS still cannot answer the overriding issue of how these 4 docs all supposedly typed in the early 1970s match up perfectly with MS Word...

Elcid Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:01:10pm

He meant 34, 567 ^{8 meaning to the 8^{th power}}

zulubaby Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:01:37pm

Charles, is the search function not working because you told it not to? Heeelp meee!

Geepers Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:02:04pm

If this story were a jet fighter.

Cam Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:02:04pm

#77 Judith:

LOL! Reminds me of regaling my nephews with tales of receiving the strap in school, which for some time they absolutely couldn't believe happened, and which I received pretty much daily. They thought that having to stay inside during recess was cruel and unusual punishment.

gymnast Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:03:11pm

#77, Judith. That about says it all. Except Rather isn't planning to make an excuse, he is waiting for the news page to turn, maby Korea or Iran will test a bomb, or maybe Al Qiada will do something that takes up all the space on the page. Or maybe the bastard will just do the honorable thing and take the window instead of the elevator.

punk boy Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:03:16pm

VERY IMPORTANT FOR CHARLES

in case he never sees this can some one point him to it. Charle's fame has grown beyond himself. The overlays were used in my wife's Law School today in a document authentication section of a class.

though no mention of the origin of the idea or who did the overlays, i am certain the professor got them from a linky to LGF.

fame travel fast.

evariste Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:04:18pm

zulubabe, search is working ok for me. What's wrong?

sunny Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:05:12pm

sorry if repeat, but just saw this

Florida OK's Nader's Name on Election Ballot

hehe

Judith Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:05:22pm

Cam- You should have seen their faces when I hit return and the rollie thingie actually moved and went "ding".

I'm sure they've seen it on movies or something but it just never registered.

I have to admit that my husband claims he nearly decided I was too young for him when he showed me his slide ruler and I had NO idea what it was.

AG in Houston Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:05:50pm

I don't have the poewr to understand that. I have no idea how to superscript.

Punk Boy

Make sure credit is given where credit is due. LGF has the potential to be huge.

Let's keep LGF in the limelight.

AG in Houston Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:06:12pm

Zulubaby

I am searching my ass of right now.

The Lone Platypus Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:06:21pm

OT (well, not really, but it's a fresh article): Washington Post: Expert Cited By CBS Says He Didn't Authenticate Papers

The lead expert retained by CBS News to examine disputed memos from President Bush's former squadron commander in the National Guard said yesterday that he examined only the late officer's signature and made no attempt to authenticate the documents themselves.
"There's no way that I, as a document expert, can authenticate them," Marcel Matley said in a telephone interview from San Francisco. The main reason, he said, is that they are "copies" that are "far removed" from the originals.

[ ... ]

A detailed comparison by The Washington Post of memos obtained by CBS News with authenticated documents on Bush's National Guard service reveals dozens of inconsistencies, ranging from conflicting military terminology to different word-processing techniques.

This is hot-off-the-press, Tuesday morning paper news.

fat.elvis Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:06:32pm

To quote my favorite band ever:

Sanitation expert and a maintenance engineer
Garbage man, a janitor, and you my dear
... you ain't nothing but a waitress in the sky

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
I'll fry up a big Arafish sandwich for the winner!

Cam Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:07:00pm

#92 Judith:

LMAO!

Horace Jeffery Hodges Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:07:25pm

#10 JohnAnnArbor wrote:

---
Allahpundit has a new take on why one memo says OETR instead of the correct OER: the forger may have been prompted by the same error on an anti-Bush website:

[Link: www.allahpundit.com...]
---

The explanation was convincing to me. Out of curiosity, I went to Google's Advanced Search and googled "officer effectiveness training report" (in the slot "with the exact phrase") and "Martin Heldt" (in the slot "with all of the words"). Only one search result came up, and here it is:

[Link: www.awolbush.com...]

It states at the top:

"(Thanks to Martin Heldt for all his hard work, and Chip for pulling the narrative together.)"

In the document we find this:

"Notice of Missing or Correction of Officer Effectiveness Training Report (for period 5/1/72 - 4/30/73)

Says Bush should have been reassigned because he'd not performed his Air Force Specialty Code (AFSC), since May of 1972. Which means he hadn't been a pilot since then. And goes on to say he hadn't trained with his Texas unit since then. This form's dated July 73."

That's from a linked document. I went there:

[Link: users.cis.net...]

It's an official-looking form that is so small that I cannot read it on my computer. Perhaps it's the one that Allahpundit was referring to. Anyway, the interesting point for me was that the name Martin Heldt occurs there in a prominent position as one to be thanked "for all his hard word." (Perhaps not hard enough?) Remember his website:

[Link: users.cis.net...]

Someone should try the same search with other 'interesting' persons. I would try, but I can't recall their names at the moment.

I would have posted this at Allahpundit's site, but I couldn't register there.

Jeffery Hodges

zulubaby Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:07:44pm

ev,

What's wrong?

How much time do you have? ;-)

100

karmic_inquisitor Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:07:48pm

WaPo just switched sides -

The lead expert retained by CBS News to examine disputed memos from President Bush's former squadron commander in the National Guard said yesterday that he examined only the late officer's signature and made no attempt to authenticate the documents themselves.

...

Matley's comments came amid growing evidence challenging the authenticity of the documents aired Wednesday on CBS's "60 Minutes." The program was part of an investigation asserting that Bush benefited from political favoritism in getting out of commitments to the Texas Air National Guard. On last night's "CBS Evening News," Rather said again that the network "believes the documents are authentic."

A detailed comparison by The Washington Post of memos obtained by CBS News with authenticated documents on Bush's National Guard service reveals dozens of inconsistencies, ranging from conflicting military terminology to different word-processing techniques.

101

JohnAnnArbor Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:07:50pm

#92--

I found a slide rule in 1988, when I was in high school. I went to the library there to get a book on how they were used. The book had last been checked out in 1973.

102

Wurm Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:08:28pm

Well I am getting sick of this.

I am bored to death looking at memos and forms and invoices and requests for toilet paper from Ellington AFB from 1972 to 1976.

You know something really interesting?. THEY ALL ARE IN A FIXED FONT!

Even the $#@%ing FORMS!!!

The ONLY documents I have seen in a proportionally spaced font are the ones that seem to elaborate on the fact Bush wanted to move out of Texas for a while.

Now some smart expert is going to show me a proportionally spaced memo from someone to someone complaining about the quality of ass wipe...

What you guys NEED to do is get access to documents from Ellington in that time frame. Find one that is typed with the machine that typed the Bush documents, but is not related to Bush.

I can't...

Mebby they just used that rinky-dink typewriter to type reports about Bush because it looked nice and Bush had political influence???

103

levi from queens Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:08:52pm

The Replacements--Waitress in the Sky

104

evariste Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:09:08pm

zulubaby

How much time do you have? ;-)

LMAO! For you, all the time in the world :-)

105

Crichton Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:09:28pm

As always, everyone but The Daily Show gets it wrong.

How could you all have missed the ":-)" and "LOL" in the Killian memos? You lizardoids disappoint.

106

BenJeremy Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:09:57pm

Hmmm...

CBS News to premiere weekly print news magazine

107

fat.elvis Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:10:57pm

#103

ding ding ding!
One fried Arafish sandwich coming up.

Paul Westerberg is the man.

108

evariste Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:11:20pm

As always, everyone but The Daily Show gets it wrong.

The Daily Show is lame and stale. The blogs have made about 6000 variations of that 90s culture in the 70s memo joke. They used to be really unique and funny but they're just tired now.

109

zulubaby Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:11:24pm

Cool :-)

When I try to use the search function it gives me that "this page cannot be displayed" nonsense and it's been happening all day.

110

Judith Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:13:09pm

JohnAnnArbor-LOL! I had a calculator. I remember being very annoyed that I had to demonstrate I could use log tables as part of math in order to graduate in 1979. Did it, and forgot it, promptly.

111

Ben F Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:13:20pm

#108 evariste--

The joke was lame, but it does give more visibility to the issue. The more vehicles for carrying the story, the better, IMO.

112

a noble vision Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:13:43pm

Democratic strategist states election is "over" if memos proven to be fakes (which we know they are).

Furthermore, an interesting discussion on the blogosphere, the MSM and MemoGate is found on PressThink:

I found it interesting that Stirling Newberry of BOP News, who identifies Left, is not only convinced there's a credibility crisis for CBS ("the simple truth is that the equipment that existed in 1972 would not have produced this output...") but also for the "left blogsphere," which "should be ashamed of itself for backing off of demanding what we will need to demand the next time Bush pulls a secret plan to save social security out of his nether regions."
Newberry's point is: a principled Left would not leap to defend Dan Rather and CBS because it likes the consequences of their reporting on Bush's National Guard years. Instead, demand what we need to see before the public can again have confidence in the report Rather aired Wednesday night.

For those in the Big Picture market, the smartest thing I have seen written so far on the events in question is again by Belmont Club:

The traditional news model is collapsing. It suffers from two defects. The "news object" can no longer be given sealed attributes in newspaper backrooms. The days when the press was the news object foundry are dying. Second, the news industry is suffering from its lack of analytic cells, which are standard equipment in intellgence shops. Editors do some analysis but their focus is diluted by their attention to style and the craft of writing. The blogosphere and other actors, now connected over the Internet, are filling in for the missing analytic function. And although the news networks still generate, via their reporters, the bulk of primary news, they generate a pitiful amount of competent analysis.

113

SoCalJustice Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:13:52pm

(#100) karmic_inquisitor

The WaPo was one of the early MSM skeptics, along with the AP and ABC News.

Here's Michael Dobbs and Mike Allen on Friday:

Some Question Authenticity of Papers on Bush

William Flynn, a forensic document specialist with 35 years of experience in police crime labs and private practice, said the CBS documents raise suspicions because of their use of proportional spacing techniques. Documents generated by the kind of typewriters that were widely used in 1972 space letters evenly across the page, so that an "i" uses as much space as an "m." In the CBS documents, by contrast, each letter uses a different amount of space.
While IBM had introduced an electric typewriter that used proportional spacing by the early 1970s, it was not widely used in government. In addition, Flynn said, the CBS documents appear to use proportional spacing both across and down the page, a relatively recent innovation. Other anomalies in the documents include the use of the superscripted letters "th" in phrases such as 111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron, Bush's unit.

"It would be nearly impossible for all this technology to have existed at that time," said Flynn, who runs a document-authentication company in Phoenix.

Other experts largely concurred. Phil Bouffard, a forensic document examiner from Cleveland, said the font used in the CBS documents appeared to be Times Roman, which is widely used by word-processing programs but was not common on typewriters.

114

evariste Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:15:34pm

zulubabe, that's a problem somewhere between your ISP and Charles' server, I'd wager. I'm doing searches both from the form on the top of the screen and the advanced search page and not having any trouble...try hitting F5 to refresh any time you get that "page cannot be displayed" and it should ask you to resend the form data (possibly) and try again. Cos search is definitely working flawlessly for me, so it's not anything wrong with LGF itself.
Ben F, good point, yeah :-)

115

Quana Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:16:53pm

#77 Judith

"It's a wonder anyone ever got anything done in the olden days.'

ROFL!!!

Too funny! Too true!

116

Geepers Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:17:28pm

zulubaby,

Maybe you need to clean your keys with the little brush that's on the wheel eraser. Sometimes they get all clogged with ribbon lint and ink.

117

a noble vision Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:19:23pm

#52 Dean Douthat

Could you provide a reference on that? Sounds interesting.

118

JohnAnnArbor Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:19:43pm

#110--

We were taught to use log and trig tables. I bet we were among the last. Just like my engineering class was one of the last to learn FORTRAN.

119

evariste Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:21:52pm

You might also try resetting your internet connection, zulubaby. I know you've got an always-on connection so turning off your modem for a few minutes should do it.

120

zulubaby Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:22:17pm

Geepers, LOL!!

evariste, two different computers are giving me the what-what? Ugh. Today's not my day, eh?

121

gymnast Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:23:35pm

zulubaby, have you tried throwing in another shovelful of coal? My old steam fired computer sometimes doesn't search right when the pressure is low. Also check the frammis valve on the side, they sometimes fill up with ash and stick.

122

Horace Jeffery Hodges Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:23:50pm

P.S. Two things: 1) typo should read "for all his hard work" and 2) my post finally posted on Allahpundit.

123

Wurm Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:25:12pm

Oh, I missed this one...

[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

"""WASHINGTON - Here are the texts of four memos indicating George W. Bush was suspended from flying during the Vietnam war because he failed to meet Texas Air National Guard standards and did not take his annual flight physical as required. Copies of the memos were provided by the White House."""

(so the White House released the memos!!! )

Well, click on the link MSNBC provides to see the original documents the White House provided and you may just be able to see the fax header...

This is getting stupid.

124

a noble vision Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:25:42pm

#68 Bob Munck 9/13/2004 07:47PM PST
[...]On the other hand, a clerk or secretary typing a memo from a handwritten note or from dictation might well be inconsistent, due to inattention, laziness, or boredom.

Portrait of the Forger as a Young Ass

125

evariste Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:25:47pm

#117 a noble vision, Joseph Newcomer is Dean's source, I believe.

126

evariste Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:26:47pm

zulubaby, are both computers sharing an internet connection? Reset that cable modem/dsl modem/whatever.

127

JohnAnnArbor Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:30:22pm

#124--

An aside: I had to read Portrait of an Artist by Joyce when I was in high school. I hated it. I thought Joyce was the most self-absorbed author whose "work" I had ever been forced to read.

The previous sentence can only be diagrammed if you are under the influence of powerful drugs.

128

zulubaby Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:30:29pm

Okay, so I went to 'Advanced', thanks to evariste, and it worked. I was looking for this because of peace be upon me's #63. May as well throw in this one too, while I'm looking at that thread.

129

Security Mom Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:32:05pm

rc #31

LOL!

130

evariste Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:36:11pm

Very interesting, zulubaby. This woman's hands are in every pie, huh?

131

a noble vision Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:37:31pm

#125 evariste

Thanks, I'll check it out.

132

a noble vision Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:41:15pm

#125 evariste

No, nothing about the MS Word centering function there.

133

gymnast Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:44:41pm

#128, zulubaby. From those earlier posts and links of yours regarding Mapes and Rathers earlier brushes with the law in Texas, it appears that the memogate business involves counterfit Texas Air Guard documents and Texas does not have a shield law for Rather and Mapes to hide behind. So could Texas authorities require them to reveal their sources and produce the documents?

134

evariste Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:45:09pm

#132 a noble vision: that would be Phil Magness.
a noble vision you've gotta start reading LGF more man ;-P

135

farblonjet Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:46:27pm

from the washington post article on the scandal:

Any argument to the contrary is "an out-and-out lie," Glennon said in a telephone interview. But Glennon said he is not a document expert, could not vouch for the memos' authenticity and only examined them online because CBS did not give him copies when asked to visit the network's offices.

Yes, that is correct, Bill Glennon states that he is not a document expert and cannot vouch for the memo's authenticity.

The CBS broadcast gave him the credentials of being a "document expert."

136

newsonterr Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:50:00pm

Charlie,

We shall see many more 'Democratic' tricks till the D day in November. I suspect this is gonna be the dirtiest election so far. Last time around the demos did not take their defeat gracefully. This time they'll whine even louder, maybe they may even talk of going to the Hague! Who knows.

And these guys will never admit that they are in denial mode since there is no other way to shore up the sagging Democratic campaign. They did it with McGovern, they did it with Gore and they'll do it with Kerry. What we today is the beginning of the whining that will continue after defeat in November. remember "Losers always crib" The demos already are showing a defeatist mindset. This tells us loudly and clearly what they think will be the outcome of the elections.

[Link: www.newsonterror.com...]

137

Globular Cluster Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:52:00pm

Bill's movin' on up!
To the East Side!
To a Document Expert office in the sky!

He finally got a piece of the pie!

138

zulubaby Mon, Sep 13, 2004 6:56:28pm

evariste (#130)

This woman's hands are in every pie, huh?

Yep, behind the scenes ...

gymnast (#133)

So could Texas authorities require them to reveal their sources and produce the documents?

I hope so. Dan Rather has made some very serious accusations about the President of the United States of America. I think he should be forced to reveal his sources.

139

evariste Mon, Sep 13, 2004 7:02:59pm

zulubaby, your phone rang so I answered it ;-)

140

Geepers Mon, Sep 13, 2004 7:03:20pm

Isn't it funny how their guy jumps from "typewriter repairman" to "document expert", while we go from "fact-checking gurus" to "pajama clad dopes"?

141

a noble vision Mon, Sep 13, 2004 7:05:51pm

34 evariste

I have to take breaks here and there to earn a living. ; )

I had already seen both the posts you referred to, even recreated the letterhead centering in MS Word myself (exact match with the cBS .pdfs, btw). But he states that Microsoft uses "optical centering" which is charachteristic of MS and TT exclusively. I fing nothing on Google on 'microsoft "optical centering"' If he has a reference I'd like to check it out.

142

evariste Mon, Sep 13, 2004 7:12:11pm

a noble vision, good question! I dunno. I found a mention on LGF that led to Peter Duncan but can't find what the guy's talking about on there.

143

The real Richard Mon, Sep 13, 2004 7:18:22pm

So a typewriter repairman is a technology consultant. That is sort of like calling a garbage collector a sanitary engineer. I guess if CBS needs to consult an expert in fluid dynamics they will hire a plumber.

Well there is one thing that Dan Rather will be able to do. He will be able to tell the world what is was like being at the Alamo!

144

SoCalJustice Mon, Sep 13, 2004 7:18:43pm

Geepers,

Don't forget that some of us are also kerning-lovin' freepers and wingnuts.

145

Havoc Mon, Sep 13, 2004 7:25:16pm

Security Mom - if you're 6 blocks from Port Chicago, this ones for you babe

146

Geepers Mon, Sep 13, 2004 7:41:21pm

SoCalJustice,

Not to mention knuckle-dragging neanderthals and 'full of poopoo'.

It's hard to keep up sometimes.

147

zulubaby Mon, Sep 13, 2004 7:58:11pm

evariste, thanks, you're an angel ;-)

Listen, I'm having internet issues. I'm going to try e-mail you now but if I'm not able to I'm coming back here to post about my woes.

148

Havoc Mon, Sep 13, 2004 8:08:55pm

This just in -- Blather explains the story.

Blather's Explanation

149

RonAA Mon, Sep 13, 2004 8:39:17pm

Tim Blair links to this Washington Monthly comment by Bill Glennon [Link: www.washingtonmonthly.com...] in which the "technology consultant" asks

Can someone tell me how to italicize a quote from a previous post.

150

Geepers Mon, Sep 13, 2004 8:51:45pm

RonAA (#149),

L. M. A. O.

That is priceless.

Send that to Charles. That should be an update.

151

evariste Mon, Sep 13, 2004 8:52:16pm

RonAA, OMFG!

152

dandr Mon, Sep 13, 2004 9:07:25pm

re: post #35:
No, the '1' and the 'l' are different, at least in my MSWord. But reread this CBS quote from expert Katz to get the full humor:

Richard Katz, a software designer, found some other indications in the documents. He noted that the letter "L" is used in those documents, instead of the numeral "one." That would be difficult to reproduce on a computer today.

Who would have guessed that Computers now make it impossible to type an 'l' when you mean '1'? :)

153

Throbert McGee Mon, Sep 13, 2004 9:12:43pm

Evariste, there you are!

154

evariste Mon, Sep 13, 2004 9:23:30pm

Hi, Throbert! Was I missing or something? Were you looking for me? :-)

155

Cam Mon, Sep 13, 2004 9:25:39pm

#154 evariste:

I b'lieve he merely wanted to bite your shiny metal ass - oh wait, I'm thinking of "Classic Bender"...

;-)

156

Wooden Bender Mon, Sep 13, 2004 9:30:14pm

Cam, LOL!
Bite my splintery, wooden ass :-)

157

Cam Mon, Sep 13, 2004 9:31:56pm

#156 Wooden Bender:

LM wooden, splintery AO!

158

Cam Mon, Sep 13, 2004 9:34:37pm

O.K. - that's it for this kid. 'Night all.

159

Wooden Bender Mon, Sep 13, 2004 9:43:31pm

#157 Cam, LOL!

160

recycler Mon, Sep 13, 2004 10:09:08pm

Posted a clip here:

Video of Richard Katz on CBS

161

Evilscott Tue, Sep 14, 2004 2:47:16am

Who did Mapes get the documents from?
I've heard Lechliter, Barnes and James Moore helped and directed by Zach Exley.
Who physically gave the documents to Mapes?

162

Sarah D. Tue, Sep 14, 2004 2:51:56am

Just heard on the local talk show radio that it was a "disgruntled ex-guard member". They said the name but I missed it. I'm trying to listen in now.

163

Sarah D. Tue, Sep 14, 2004 2:53:28am

Bill Burcan (sp) a former officer, disgruntled, two nervous breakdowns and wanted the Guard to pay medical expenses.

Anyone else heard anything about this?

164

evariste Tue, Sep 14, 2004 2:59:15am

Burkett, Sarah, and yes :-) There was a big story about it that was recently a blog darling.

165

evariste Tue, Sep 14, 2004 3:01:35am

Ace of Spades on Burkett.

166

J.D. Tue, Sep 14, 2004 3:05:01am

OT, yet interesting.

...Under the arms control agreement negotiated by the Clinton Administration--the so-called Agreed Framework of 1994--the U.S. attempted to buy off Pyongyang with fuel oil and two light water reactors in exchange for North Korea giving up its nuclear program. But as soon as the North deemed it convenient, it repudiated that pact, booted U.N. inspectors out of the country, and turned off the TV cameras monitoring its nuclear facilities at Yongbyon. It then began demanding even a larger payoff in return for giving up the nuclear program it had earlier vowed it didn't have.
Having been burned once, the Bush Administration has since been trying (in concert with our Asian allies) to negotiate a new nonproliferation regime that is more credible than one more North Korean promise. But Mr. Kerry seems to be worried that the White House has been driving too hard a bargain: He wants the U.S. to agree to sit down, one-on-one with the North (so much for multilateralism), and hash out another Agreed Framework. No wonder Pyongyang is avoiding any serious negotiations until after it sees who wins in November.

The same arms-control mentality also marks the Kerry strategy toward Iran. Mr. Edwards recently said that a Kerry Administration would allow Tehran to fire up its Russian-built nuclear reactors, and even provide them with fuel, so long as the mullahs agreed to let the international community repossess the weapons-usable byproducts.

This too is the triumph of hope over experience. Just yesterday the member countries of the International Atomic Energy Agency were meeting in Geneva to discuss the next steps in response to nearly 20 years of Iranian deception. Two years ago an Iranian resistance group alerted the world to Iran's previously undeclared nuclear sites, and subsequent inspections have provoked a familiar pattern of bluster and lies that practically screams "bomb program."

Henry Sokolski of the Nonproliferation Policy Education Center points out that the fresh nuclear fuel that Messrs. Kerry and Edwards want to give the mullahs is already halfway along the enrichment process toward being weapons-usable. With sophisticated and hidden enrichment capabilities of the type we know Iran already has, the country could be within days of having a bomb core were it to seize and divert the reactor fuel. In any case, the mullahs are currently ruling out the possibility of a Kerry-Edwards type deal, demanding to be recognized as a normal nuclear nation with a right to control all stages of its nuclear fuel cycle.

IAEA member states are increasingly frustrated by the mullahs' deceptions and may be ready to refer them to the U.N. Security Council for sanctions by next time the IAEA meets in November. We wish we could be more confident that the Bush Administration was working on pre-emptive military options should they become necessary. But at least it has refused to accept the inevitability of a Persian nuke. "We're determined that they're not going to achieve a nuclear-weapons capability," says Undersecretary of State John Bolton.

The essence of the Kerry-Edwards proposals, by contrast, is that if Iran and North Korea have a history of dealing in bad faith it's because we Americans aren't being cooperative enough. "The idea that there's a big bargain out there that the Iranians will live up to is nutty in light of the last six months," says the Nonproliferation Center's Mr. Sokolski.

So Americans really are getting a proliferation policy choice presented to them this November. If voters think that arms-control agreements like those in the 1970s and during the Clinton years are the best way to rein in rogue states with nuclear ambitions, they should vote for the Kerry-Edwards ticket.

Back to Arms Control - Kerry calls for détente with Iran and North Korea.

167

evariste Tue, Sep 14, 2004 3:05:02am

This LGF thread ends up having tons of info on Burkett, Sarah.

168

Evilscott Tue, Sep 14, 2004 3:09:29am

Sara #163

Bill Burkett a retired LtCol in the TX Army NG.
A 55yo "systems analyst" in Abilene, TX.
Been in cahoots with James Moore for years now to smear Bush.
Both are considered somewhat unstable.

So, who helped Burkett and Moore get to Mapes?
I hear Zack Exley's fingerprints are all over this.

169

Sarah D. Tue, Sep 14, 2004 3:10:24am

#167 evariste

Okay, okay...I'll go back to my trigonometry now. Just a bit behind the curve here!!!

:-)

170

evariste Tue, Sep 14, 2004 3:15:10am

Sarah, LMAO! I wasn't chiding you for not paying attensh, just giving you the goods :-) I'm busy too, of the last 20 LGF threads I've read maybe 4. And of the last 10 or so LGFWW threads I've participated in 2 or 3. So don't worry about it :-) I just happened to catch this one.

171

Sarah D. Tue, Sep 14, 2004 3:17:54am

evariste,

Out of curiosity, do you recall what the normal online user count used to be for this time of morning? I recall around 400-525.

172

evariste Tue, Sep 14, 2004 3:21:36am

Yeah, that sounds about right to me, Sarah. Maybe a little high, even. I think it gets up to the 500s in an hour or so maybe.

173

evariste Tue, Sep 14, 2004 3:23:33am

I'm just guessing of course :-) But in about an hour it'll be 6:30 pacific so the entire US will be either awake or waking up. I think that's when it really starts to get going most mornings.

174

evariste Tue, Sep 14, 2004 3:24:26am

Wow, has it really gone up nearly 100 users since you asked me?!

175

evariste Tue, Sep 14, 2004 3:25:17am

OK wow. Every time I reload it's going up by six-eight. And that's if I reload once a second or so. That's nuts!

176

evariste Tue, Sep 14, 2004 3:29:25am

About 1320 now.

177

gumble Tue, Sep 14, 2004 3:32:45am

In this CBS interview, Bill Glennon says features like proportional spacing were available back then but he didn't say which specific typewriter they were available on. Has he ever mentioned a brand of typewriter that could duplicate the memos?

178

Evilscott Tue, Sep 14, 2004 3:34:08am

Anyone know how close, or of any contacts between Bill Burkett and Ben Barnes?

179

evariste Tue, Sep 14, 2004 3:47:21am

...and up to 1531 now. This is getting Charles a lot of exposure, which he deserves.

180

The Monster Tue, Sep 14, 2004 5:30:18am

The really important part of the use of the space to defeat the superscription is that it was obviously used in these memos - look at all of the ordinal suffixes that are separated from the numeric string by a space.

Nobody types 111 st; they type 111st. Yet these documents have it those two ways, as well as 111^st. Who would type all three ways?

181

RayA Tue, Sep 14, 2004 6:04:31am

Just imagine how Watergate would've turned out with internet blogs scrutinizing every little piece of information... poor poor Nixon

182

StinKerr Tue, Sep 14, 2004 6:45:30am

There's no need to turn anything off.

I did an experiment in Word and if I type the number, leave a space then type the 'th', continute typing the line then remove the space between the number and the 'th' I find that the superscript does not function.

Apologies if this has been covered, I didn't read the whole thread.