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-RetweetEl Pais Apologizes for 9/11 Ad

Fri, Sep 17, 2004 at 8:39:18 am PDT

On Wednesday we had the story of an ugly advertisement for Spain’s El Pais newspaper, using images of 9/11.

Today, Southern Watch has a translation of El Pais’s very sincere-sounding apology.

EL PAIS apologizes for the use of the images of the terrorist attack against the Twin Towers in New York, which happend on September 11, 2001, for a campaign to aquire subscribers to ELPAIS.es. This regrettable campaign, carried out through emails, supported by two photos of New York, one with the Twin Towers and another one without, under the heading “You can do a lot in one day, imagine what can happen in three months”. The promotional campaign started last Monday, September 13, and was sent to more than 50,000 recipients before it was cancelled, on Wednesday 15th.

EL PAIS, its publisher and the Grupo Prisa profoundly regret the use of a tragedy, which in this case cost the lives of more than 2,700 persons, for publicity purposes. We would like to apologize for it to the victims and their families, to the citizens of New York who experienced that agression from up close, and to those who saw among their email this ominous message, and to all the readers of the newspaper.

Any explanation about the chain of errors which led to the launch of this campaign is insufficient, which some of our readers rightly qualified as repugnant. We share the disgust they have expressed in numerous messages and letters to the management and we are sorry it happened.

The Prisa Group has opened an internal investigation to clarify how it was decided to launch this promotional campaign and to take appropriate measures. Effective inmediately, it has ordered the company used to send out the emails that it mails all recipients of the campaign to apologize.

EL PAIS would like to express once more, like it has done in its 28 years and almost 10,000 editions, its solid solidarity with the victims of terrorism. Like said in EL PAIS editorial on September 12, 2001, and we repeat it fully here again, those terrorist attacks touch all citizens of good will, without distinction of borders or continents, and constituted an attack “against those with whom we share the same democratic principles which in our country costed so dearly to attain”.

The barbarian terrorist attacks which happened later in the rest of the world, among other places like Madrid, did nothing but confirm the necessity to act firmly and democratically before terrorism, which must exclude any irresponsible use of these events.

Anyone at CBS taking notes?

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97 comments

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1 Praxeus  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 6:41:56am

That's pretty bad...even the Euro weenies have more honor than CBS.

2 Praxeus  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 6:42:42am

Red Radio !!

[Link: www.communistsforkerry.com...]

3 mpax  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 6:43:40am

I accept the apology.

4 gargamel  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 6:44:44am

This is a proper apology. Note the lack of excuses.

5 Pete (Alois)  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 6:45:54am

The difference between us n' them... Charles puts the apology front and center and lets his readers make up their own minds. The left hides everything under a rug so it won't lose its death grip on its adherents' hearts and minds.

6 Norwegian kafir  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 6:46:26am
7 Eagle  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 6:46:55am

That seems very sincere.

8 Model4  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 6:48:11am
Any explanation about the chain of errors which led to the launch of this campaign is insufficient, which some of our readers rightly qualified as repugnant. We share the disgust they have expressed in numerous messages and letters to the management and we are sorry it happened.

Forgiven. See how easy that was?

Although this is not going to be the case with CBS, who has let the time to retract and apologize slip away long ago, and additionally has defended forgeries, placed the burden of proof on the man they accused of criminal behavior, refused to allow others to analyze their evidence, attacked fair critics, and only presented parts of the story that paint them in the best possible light. Still, there is much they can do to mitigate some of the self-inflicted damage.

9 Artisticulated  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 6:48:12am

See how simple that was 'Ol Danny? See alll those people ready to give you a chance to prove yourself trustworthy? OK, here's the microphone…

10 Pax Americana  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 6:50:52am

Wow. And no attempt to impugn the motives of those who complained about the ad. Just a humble apology. What a novel idea.

11 Andy in Agoura Hills  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 6:51:30am

The barbarian terrorist attacks which happened later in the rest of the world, among other places like Madrid, did nothing but confirm the necessity to act firmly and democratically before terrorism, which must exclude any irresponsible use of these events.

They forgot to add "Except for Israel and terrorism against Jews".

I'm not buying this "apology" at all, and none of you should either. This is about money honey, not values. If they were really sorry, we'd see some heads rolling NOW.

12 Lysander  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 6:52:04am

THey even called the islamofacist acts "barbarian terrorist attacks" - not "the work of militants," "activists," or any other weasel words. Good for them.

Now, CBS, where's your apology?


Lysander

13 Model4  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 6:52:28am

OT: Good news, looks like the Wall Street Journal's editorial board has their show back! Link. Was a great departure from the "talking points barrage" and filibusters/shoutdowns from other news/analysis shows.

14 Occasional Reader  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 6:52:33am

Now that's a damn fine apology. No excuses, no "we apologize... that some were offended" responsibility-dodging crap, and sincere-sounding regret.

which some of our readers rightly qualified as repugnant

The word I used in my e-mail was actually "asqueroso" (disgusting), but I'm gonna take credit anyway!

15 Pete (Alois)  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 6:54:54am

#11 Andy--

A wee bit prickly, aren't we?

And how do you know that heads haven't rolled?

16 JavaMan  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 6:55:18am

To be fair, the suggested translation, "You can do a lot in one day, imagine what can happen in three months," is a little more harsh than the Spanish itself would convey. A more accurate translation might be "A lot can happen in one day, imagine what can happen in three months."

It was certainly tasteless, but it was more of an objective statement, rather than the celebration of the 9/11 attacks that the mistranslation might imply.

The apology is well-stated and well-received. CBS could learn a thing or two from it...

17 Praxeus  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 6:55:24am

Someone repost their email contact again please...it would be good if they got 50,00 emails saying their apology is accepted. One good turn deserves another.

18 Poitiers-Lepanto  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 6:55:29am

As an American Citizen I do not accept the apologies.
Thank you very much.
And I hope that the terrorists instead of hitting decent American families will kill only bastard spanish weasels.

It's called a war, being a traitor with your actions can't be changed by words.
El Pais is a scum of a commie newspaper, whose attacks against America are daily and at every level, they just try not to go to jail.

19 Mohonky  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 6:56:38am

I still find this very hard to forgive

20 Studsup  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 6:57:11am

Wow! Apology accepted. I response to that El Pais ad, on that thread, I posted perhaps the harshest mocking statement I've ever made in relation to those killed in Madrid -- and for that, I apologize.

21 Geepers  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 6:59:55am

This is contrition. It's obvious that they were as repulsed by this as the rest of us.

Anyone at CBS taking notes?

No.

CBS could never make this type of apology, because CBS doesn't believe what they did was wrong.

If they ever make a statement (forget about an apology) it will be weasel worded, blame those who questioned them and be used as another expedient opportunity to tarnish Bush.

22 Southern Watch  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 7:01:21am

Thanks for the link Charles! Hope it won't crash!
As to the apology, I found it sincere, and like some commenters note, lacks any kind of excuse making. Exactly how you should apologize and get it over with.

23 RWW  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 7:02:11am

Speaking of apologies, I missed Kerry's apogy for throwing his medals/ribbons away. Where can I find it? Maybe he faxed it to Dan? Take a look at the new-today swifties ad at [Link: www.swiftvets.com...]

24 JohnAnnArbor  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 7:04:21am

Note the lack of Arab-style "We're sorry, but..." crap. They just said sorry.

25 FreakyBoy  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 7:04:45am

#21 Geepers

CBS could never make this type of apology, because CBS doesn't believe what they did was wrong.

CBS can't make this apology because they know they were wrong.

26 Southern Watch  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 7:06:01am

Praxeus, the email is redaccion@prisacom.com if you want to let them know you accept the apology.

27 Studsup  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 7:06:04am

#18 -- I shared your sentiments when I saw that advert. I still don't like how the Spanish people responded to their attacks in Madrid, but it was their right. I destest the politics and statements of Zapatero without regret. I believe Spain will pay dearly for its appeasement, and, knowing that they brought it on themselves and that the Zapatero government has aligned with our enemies, I will shed no tears when the reality visits Spain again.

BUT, this newspaper, which may be as relentlessly partisan and anti-American as you say, has in fact publicly apologized and recognized the callous pain they inflicted on many. They did not termporize or justify. Contrast this to the "apologies" of Islam for the terror attacks committed daily in its name.

This paper will not change stripes, but they recognized a terrible mistake and had the cojones to admit it. Think Ted Rall or Michael Moore are made of that stuff?

28 Colt  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 7:06:23am

Impressive stuff.

Any explanation about the chain of errors which led to the launch of this campaign is insufficient

The question still has to be asked: how the hell did it get approved?

29 greenghost  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 7:07:50am

I would be very interested to read what their 'internal investigation' concludes. The exploitation of nearly 3000 dead Americans is not something that can be forgiven by a perfunctory statement alone. Thanks, CBS, for lowering the bar.

30 Pete (Alois)  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 7:07:53am

#27 Studsup--

What you said, in spades.

31 casey  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 7:08:21am

I was so disgusted when I first saw the ad, that I was tempted to photoshop-in photos of the Madrid bombing and send it back to them. Tempted. But could not bring myself to perpetuate such tastelessness.

I think it is something that escaped the decision-loop, and their apology seems heartfelt and gracious.

32 MarcoPolo  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 7:08:27am

Kudos to them.

Who here doesn't have more respect for them now?

See how easy it is to turn a negative into a positive?

33 Martel-Sobieski  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 7:18:17am

When I see heads roll, then I'll believe it.

This is an adolescent ploy I see every day.

Prominently declare the insult, then immediately apologize and pretend everythings okay.

I'm sorry, but the message can't be "un-said" and the vile terror-supporting POS's (plural) that put this out knew damned well what the reaction would be.

It's doubly, . .no triply, . . no, quadruply to the nth power despicable for having come after the Madrid train bombings.

The terror-enabling, America-hating agitprop gang responsible for this needs to be fired immediately.

While the tone and lack of excuse-making is certainly commendable for a news organization, I'll believe the sincerity of it when there are pink slips all around.

34 bigel[deleted]  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 7:18:18am
35 Lewis  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 7:19:20am

#21 Geepers: "CBS could never make this type of apology, because CBS doesn't believe what they did was wrong."

#25 FreakyBoy: "CBS can't make this apology because they know they were wrong."

Remember your memes, kids ...

Well, they may have been wrong in this instance, but they're still right in a larger sense ...

Seriously. Yes, they know they're forgeries, but are unapologetic because, so they think, they've got the big picture right.

Just like it's okay when I steal from people, because, at heart, I'm a generous and giving guy.

36 Andy in Agoura Hills  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 7:23:38am

#15 Pete

Looks like I have stated the opinion of several others here. So am not so "prickly". Am I???

BTW, how do you know heads have rolled???

37 brianstien  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 7:27:28am

I'm impressed. Very stand-up.

38 NuclearTinkerbell  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 7:27:34am

Apology accepted. This time. Now shut up, Al Andalusia, grow a spine, and fight some terror.

39 alegrias  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 7:28:41am

Glad the leftists were able to apologize--that'll upset the further LLLs and EU-niks, and please that part of Spain which shares & supports our values & aspirations quietly.

After all, Spain elected its previous, anti-terrorist moderately conservative President Jose Maria Aznar twice, so many Spaniards do not support El Pais or its positions but read more conservative ABC.es or other publications instead.

Aznar and his Embassador to the US, Javier Ruperez, survived assasination attempts by ETA and Ruperez was held hostage by ETA.

Kind of like Iraq's interim Pres. Allawi, who was nearly hacked to death while in exile.

40 leo (dissident view from Berlin)  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 7:29:17am
"You can do a lot in one single day; just imagine what can happen in three months."

Did anyone wonder what the "three months" were referring to? The El Pais subscription period or the Al Qaeda/Abu Hafs al-Masri "three months" truce?

As another Madrid did not happen or was preempted, the Al Qaeda message to Europe was downplayed as an empty threat by those who bragged to have caused the 2003 blackout in Canada, but now this kind of allusion to the terrorist ultimatum might be seen as ignorance towards these Europeans who were kidnapped in Iraq since it expired.

But the El Pais staff might indeed have mixed feelings and struggle between appeasement and survival. This was also the paper which published the surveillance camera pictures to remember the attack appropriately when Zapatero, Schröder and Chirac celebrated six months of surrender.

41 CheezNCrackers  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 7:30:20am

The apology should be accepted as graciously as it was offered.

I, for one, accept it and will visit Spain next year (again)

42 Pete (Alois)  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 7:37:29am

#36 Andy:

How do you know heads have rolled?

I don't, any more than you know that they haven't. But as to you and your compatriots who are so slow to forgive... you miss the possibility that the apology might have been sincere. And when someone sincerely apologizes and will not be forgiven, you've just taught them that there's never any point in apology.

43 brianstien  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 7:37:34am

OT - A US sniper's story: 'Everyone I shot deserved it. It doesn't bother me'

The DUmmies are in full seethe; comparing the soldier to the DC snipers.

44 Peter Verkooijen  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 7:41:44am

Yes, we should accept this apology as graciously as it was offered. This kind of thing gives me hope. I really get the impression a lot of fencesitters, here and in Europe, are getting tired of the America bashing and are starting to speak out, even in unexpected places. I hear even leftists having enough of the sloganeering, distortions and lack of seriousness on the left.

Bigel should STFU every now and then.

45 BPP  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 7:41:53am

34 bigel

You made my morning! I haven't laughed that hard in ages.

No one rants like bigel!

46 leo (dissident view from Berlin)  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 7:43:04am

However this apology does not abandon the delusion of both Aznar and Zapatero that global terrorism is seen as a problem for the civilian legal system rather than as an enemy side in war.

47 realwest  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 7:50:02am

Charles - this is one of the most interesting threads I've seen out here in a long time.

1. #4 gargamel 9/17/2004 08:44AM PST
This is a proper apology. Note the lack of excuses.

2.#10 Pax Americana 9/17/2004 08:50AM PST
Wow. And no attempt to impugn the motives of those who complained about the ad. Just a humble apology. What a novel idea

#12 They even called the islamofacist acts "barbarian terrorist attacks" - not "the work of militants," "activists," or any other weasel words. Good for them.
Now, CBS, where's your apology?
Lysander
Most of the folks who have posted on this thread believe, as do I, that the apology was sincere, that the statement that went out in the first place never made it up the corporate approval level very far before it was released and that some "heads" have already begun to roll.
To those who complain that it's a commie rag I reply that's freedom of speech; to those who say it didn't mention Israel or Jews, my understanding was that the awful statement that did get e-mailed out didn't mention them either.
Note please to Dan Rather, CBS and all MSM: this is a style you should get emulate. I'm not perfect (I know this will come as a shock to many of my friends out here (!) but I do I make mistakes). But my parents raised an honest child and, after getting over the shock of my having made a mistake in the first place, I always, always apologize. CBS has gone far beyond what a simple apology will cover - even one as eloquent and elegant as the style of El Pais in this one.

48 The Bruce  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 7:50:26am

As P-L and M-S have pointed out, this is the modus operandi of Leftists everywhere--commit an outrage as prominently as possible, then issue a one-day apology without punishing the miscreants, while promising to conduct "an internal investigation."

When you repeat this technique systematically, as the Left does, you end up with the outrages overwhelming the apologies. The propaganda value is inestimable. At the same time, you hoodwink your opponents into thinking that they don't have to take any real action to redress the situation.

49 Martel-Sobieski  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 7:51:54am

Agreed, a sincere apology should be accepted gracefully. But an insincere apology with no repentance behind it deserves scorn.

Expose and fire the scumbags who cooked this up. Then we'll know you are sincere, instead of playing the game of every 14 year old trouble-maker in Junior High school.

50 Athos  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 7:52:26am

Thank you - apology accepted.

Please continue to advise the public of the results of the internal investigation and what action will be taken for those in your employee who did decide to use the murder of almost 3000 civilians to generate new subscriptions.

As classy as this act is - it will take continued action and diligence from the paper to ensure that they aren't just trying to use a "Get out of Jail Free" card.

51 alegrias  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 7:53:52am

#34 Bigel

Mr. Bigel, if Francoists admired Adolf so much, why did they allow the US to base Navy, Air Force & Coast Guard bases all over Spain since the 1950s and open their arms to tourism & Western influences, finally becoming a relatively peaceful democracy?

I've read articles in Ladino and noticed studies & celebrations of Spain's nearly destroyed jewish heritage in many Spanish cities since the 1980s at least. Which is more than I can say for truly islamofascist countries.

That Spain is now veering into the French/Socialist anti-semitic camp again is truly appalling but may be reversible.

52 Martel-Sobieski  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 7:53:53am

#48 Bruce

Amen. Perfect.

53 bigel[deleted]  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 7:54:18am
54 Athos  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 7:54:49am

employee = employ

D'oh - PIMF

55 Peter Verkooijen  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 7:57:34am

#48 The Bruce, NO, this is NOT what a typical propagandist leftwing apology looks like. That's why so many on this thread, including me, are so impressed by it.

It's unhealthy to think the battlelines between "left" and "right" are drawn and nothing will ever change that. I am a former lefty, like many on this board.

56 The Bruce  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 7:58:01am

Pete:

you miss the possibility that the apology might have been sincere.

What difference does this statement make if the daily vitriol and propaganda issuing from the pages of their newspaper continues as before?

When the Left (El Pais) changes their behavior, then I'll accept their apology.

57 bigel[deleted]  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 7:58:39am
58 PepSquad  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 8:02:25am

What about Subway restaurant's press kit in Germany? Using a parody of the two building looking too much like people running from two Twin Towers being squashed by a giant hamburger? Or the bloated Statue of Liberty, or other images as found on the menu (available as a pdf download on the "German Press Kit" link)

Subway "diet menu" check out the download link of the diary menu

59 The Bruce  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 8:04:55am

Peter V:

NO, this is NOT what a typical propagandist leftwing apology looks like. That's why so many on this thread, including me, are so impressed by it.

See my response in #56: it sounds sincere, but their behavior belies their words. We don't even need to wait for "heads to roll," all we need is a change in editorial policy at the paper.

If 9-11 truly represented "barbarian terrorist attacks," as this public apology now claims them to be, has that been reflected in El Pais's editorials and news reporting? No? Then this statement was hot air.

60 Athos  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 8:05:00am

#47 realwest

Excellent points - re CBS and Rather.

This is very simply a case of Right and Wrong. When do do the wrong thing, you need to be a big boy and then do the right thing - take responsibility for your action and offer a sincere apology along with information / actions as to why you will not repeat the original mistake.

The coverup is worse than the crime - and the silence / protection being placed on the producer, Mary Mapes is also in particular damning to CBS. Rather really is only the face to the news - although he does have senior editorial status on the Evening News - and ultimately has the final say what runs. But Mapes, with her 6 year crusade on this story - shows all the signs of someone who is trying to make the facts conform to her beliefs - and to do so at any cost.

This is not dissimilar to the Arnett / Kaplan scandal accusing the US government of using WMD / Sarin Gas to murder "deserters" in Laos (Operation Tailwind). All 3 producers lost their jobs (1 senior allowed to resign), and Arnett / Kaplan were suspended.

CNN ultimately apologized. Why doesn't CBS - as this damns CBS more than anything else?

61 alegrias  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 8:05:37am

#46 Leo in Berlin

Wrong, Leo--

Zapatero is an appeasenik lawyer.

Aznar sent Spanish troops into combat areas. Aznar was defeated precisely because he embraced Bush's view that pre-emption & offensive war was called for in Iraq, not more legal wrangling over UN sanctions.

Aznar went against the majority of his own electorate to stand with Bush, unlike your Schroeders, Chiracs & Kerryites. I wouldn't be suprised if the EUros like C-BS, helped push Aznar to defeat after the Madrid bombings for being too Bush-like at their pity party.

So don't equate Aznar with Zapatero.

62 Peter Verkooijen  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 8:09:15am

#53 bigel, you're so full of yourself and it's no coincidence when it gets you into trouble. Don't hate leftists; pity them.

To me America-haters, Jew-haters and Bush-haters are either ignorant, naive, just-not-that-smart or evil. I try to give hard leftists the benefit of the doubt before I decide they're just pure evil.

I really believe many leftists at the moment know the Bush memos are fake, understand the implications and are sickened by it.

Former marxists/hard leftists make the best critics of the left; George Orwell, Christopher Hitchens, Oriana Fallaci, David Horowitz, etc.

63 Peter Verkooijen  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 8:13:02am

#59 The Bruce, former leftists like myself know what an insincere self-serving propagandist leftwing apology looks like. This is not it. See also my comments in post #62

64 leo (dissident view from Berlin)  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 8:13:31am

#61 alegrias - So what's your explanation that Aznar asked an international body (the UN) to blame the Madrid attack on a domestic terrorist organization (ETA)?

65 alegrias  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 8:18:11am

#57 Bigel

Mr. Bigel,

Thank you. As a model of our working with unseemly allies to fight a greater evil, I argue Spain's example has been a success until the Socialists came back to power. Would that it were so easy in Iraq.

If the US held its nose to work with Franco for 40 years, at least no Americans were killed by fascist insurgents nor were Spanish civilians blown up by their compatriots while the country became a democracy.

(Except for ETA's perennial attacks on everyone.)

And yes, Catholic intolerance meant others couldn't marry there until the 1960s--had to trek to Gibraltar for that.

66 bigel[deleted]  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 8:21:19am
67 fansipans  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 8:23:24am
The barbarian terrorist attacks which happened later in the rest of the world, among other places like Madrid, did nothing but confirm the necessity to act firmly and democratically before terrorism, which must exclude any irresponsible use of these events.

Democratically?!

68 alegrias  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 8:27:51am

#64 Leo

Please provide links; in the chaos after Madrid attacks, I'm not surprised Aznar's default instinct was to think ETA responsible and to ask the international order to condemn the attacks and attackers.

Asking for international condemnation is pretty
standard procedure after atrocities, though it doesn't get you but a day or two of sympathy or snickers. Asking for the UN's help is a waste of time but one must dot their is and cross their ts to appease the LLL and MSMs for whom the UN is the ultimate arbiter & world power.

Bush was smarter to say "The people who did this will hear from all of us soon," without naming Islamic terrorist SOBs flat out, though that would have been satisfying.

69 The Bruce  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 8:28:04am

Peter V:

former leftists like myself know what an insincere self-serving propagandist leftwing apology looks like. This is not it.

I prefer to validate apologies with a change in behavior in those issuing the apology to determine their sincerity.

Yes, this statement sounds repentant, but only when El Pais starts to support our side in World War IV, aka, the War against Islamic Fascism, will I accept this apology and embrace them as allies.

Otherwise, this is more of the same from the Left.

70 Studsup  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 8:32:00am

#58 pepsquad -- "What about Subway restaurant's press kit in Germany? "

Want to really get ill? Subway is a Connecticut-based company.

They made our family's boycott list and my kids used to eat there frequently.

71 Peter Verkooijen  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 8:33:59am

#66 bigel, I sympathize with your anger, but that doesn't help winning over the fencesitters, the ignorant, the naive and the just-not-that-smart. It only helps you to feel good about yourself.

72 bigel[deleted]  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 8:39:17am
73 Peter Verkooijen  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 8:40:04am

#69 The Bruce, I'm not embracing them as allies yet. They are clearly not. But I think it's their free speech right to be and ignorant marxist rag. Are you only satisfied when they change their editorial policy to a conservative, pro-capitalist, pro-American stance?

74 J Thomas Lowry  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 8:42:20am

The apology was warranted and while they disgust me with their actions at least they apologize, unlike the wormhelpers at CBS News.

75 Peter Verkooijen  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 8:42:34am
Of course it helps to get angry.

The righteous anger attitude reminds me too much of my bad experiences on the left. I try to avoid that kind of people.

76 Studsup  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 8:43:47am

#43 brianstein -- "What about Subway restaurant's press kit in Germany? "

I read that article was quite pleased with the story, although not in the way that I'm sure Al Guardian had in mind. It's good to know that we have guys this good on our side. Everyone he shot did deserve it. If we keep up the good work there, then we might not have to deal with as many of the DC snipers over here.

Had to smile at Al Guardian's cheap shot about the soldier being a poorly paid restaurant worker before becoming a marksman in the Army. I suppose they'd have been more impressed were he a social worker?
Anyhow, based on his success so far, I'd rather have him in Iraq slingin' lead than back in the USA slingin' hash.

As to the DUmmies, if they ever have to confront the reality of terrorists again at a personal level, they'd probably trade all their autographed copies of "Das Kapital" just to have this guy at their back drawing a bead on the perps.

77 Studsup  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 8:48:44am

#43 brianstein . Yikes, my apologies, didn't properly execute the cut and paste. Your story was the smug little Al Guardian hit piece on one of our Army snipers.

78 The Bruce  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 8:55:44am

Peter V:

I'm not embracing them as allies yet. They are clearly not. But I think it's their free speech right to be and ignorant marxist rag. Are you only satisfied when they change their editorial policy to a conservative, pro-capitalist, pro-American stance?

Exactly.

Their vicious ad attacking the United States was of a piece with their continual attacks on the US in their daily newspaper. To apologize for one instance of anti-US propganda, while continuing to disseminate more of the same editorially is precisely what makes this apology so fraudulent.

To say the Left has the right of free speech to undermine political freedoms never allowed by Left-wing regimes is to play into their hands.

79 Peter Verkooijen  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 9:02:51am

OK, The Bruce, I believe reason can and will win without denying the left their right to free speech. I guess disagree.

80 Paco from Sefarad  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 9:48:01am

I don't expect an apology from Popbitch or this L³ blogger any time soon for this:

From this week's Popbitch. The disclaimer on this is, ahem, to die for:

>> Suicide is painless <<
Beware the Mitsubishi Martyrs

Suicide bombers throughout the Middle East
are often given Ecstasy by their handlers,
to help inspire them with the fervour
required to blow themselves up.

After the Saudi bombings this summer, the US
ordered a crackdown, and the Saudi authorities
traced the bombers’ Ecstasy to a batch shipped
into the country by a member of the Saudi
royal family, based in London.

The prince has been recalled to Saudi Arabia,
and has not been heard from since.

(NB: Popbitch does not condone terrorism, but if
you are going to crash an airliner into a skyscraper,
we reckon the experience would be massively enhanced
by being off your tits on MDMA.)


Posted by dan at September 9, 2004 01:57 PM

81 David 'Parisian Insider'  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 10:22:20am

Yup, they don't want to piss off the US, that's why they apologize.
However, have you all forgotten the numerous anti Israeli caroons, erring on the side of sheer antisemitism, that El Pais is famous for publishing regularly? The famous one depicting Sharon eating a baby alive for example.
As everybody has already noted, Jews/Israelis are a 'special' case. No apology need there.

82 alegrias  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 10:32:46am

#81 David Parisian

Hmmm, wonder what El Pais reported when former Pres. Aznar met with Jewish groups in the US before his party was swept out of office? I wasn't aware of Socialist antisemitism as another motive to boot the Partido Popular but it figures they'd paint Aznar + Bush + Israel = evil coalition.

83 David 'Parisian Insider'  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 10:32:55am

Sorry, the cartoon was from the Independent. I apologize to el Pais.
However:

On May 23 2001, El Pais (the "New York Times of Spain") published a picture of an allegorical figure carrying a small rectangular-shaped black moustache, flying through the air towards Sharon's upper lip. The caption read: "Clio, the muse of history, puts Hitler's moustache on Ariel Sharon." Was this El Pais's way of telling its readers that on May 22, Sharon had taken the courageous decision to declare a unilateral ceasefire in spite of over a dozen bomb attacks and attempted bomb attacks against Israeli civilians during the previous week?
84 casey  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 10:38:31am

#78 The Bruce

Self-righteous indignation does nothing to encourage others to consider your point of view.

Sometimes a little graciousness goes a long way.

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.

(don't know who to attribute the quote to).

85 alegrias  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 10:39:05am

#83 David Parisian

Sounds like same El Pais cartoonist who drew Mars-like mustachioed Aznar with warmongering Kaiser Wilhelm helmet flying above announcing "Guerra Va!" (as in "bombs away"). Bah.

Tired re-tread hack.

86 DANEgerus  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 11:39:40am

We are not talking about the Starbucks ad in which two drinks buzzed by dragonflys could be 'interpreted'.

I would be amazed that NewsPaper a nation hit by 311 could mock 911 but the biased reporting of EL PAIS misrepresenting the Conservative government turned those elections to the Socialist appeasers.

Are they sorry for those frauds?

Then they are only sorry they got caught.

87 The Bruce  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 12:10:09pm

Casey: Self-righteous indignation does nothing to encourage others to consider your point of view. Sometimes a little graciousness goes a long way. A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.

There is nothing "self-righteous" in my refusal to accept this apology until El Pais has shown genuine contrition, not by issuing statements, but by punishing those responsible and then changing their virulent anti-American editorial policy in their daily news coverage. Otherwise, this is more Left-wing propaganda.

That you think my refusal to be conned by the Left demonstrates a lack of "graciousness" is evidence of your own disingenuous nature given the blood spilled by the Marxists in the past 100 years.

Heaven forbid that we're not gracious in the face of the enemy's false contrition. What was Reagan's famous dictum? "Trust but verify."

88 Rayra[deleted]  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 12:24:23pm
89 Red Sox Nation  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 3:24:57pm

Peter V.

You make a lot of sense to me but I still say Bigel ROCKS!


Hey Bigel, are you a Yankees fan?

We're takin the yanks out this weekend in da Bronx.

GO SOX!

Hey, any team can have a bad century.

90 milk & cookies with Rumsfeld  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 3:45:40pm

The paper, publisher, and parent group can offer all the mea culpas they want, but until they say, "All those found to have been involved in planning and producing this atrocious advertisement will be fired," all their apologies are still BS.

91 RickZ  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 5:13:49pm

# 89 Red Sox Nation:

IIRC, Bigel, like me, is a Mets fan. I've always wanted a plaque of Bill Buckner in Shea.

92 Red Sox Nation  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 5:22:24pm

:O

OMG

93 zulubaby  Fri, Sep 17, 2004 6:04:06pm

Paco from Sefarad (#80)

Is that for real?

94 Paco from Sefarad  Sat, Sep 18, 2004 2:25:26am

zulubaby,

Its the first I've heard of homicide bombers using drugs, but it wouldn't surprise me.

95 leo (dissident view from Berlin)  Sat, Sep 18, 2004 9:29:16am

#68 alegrias - Aznars move towards the UN was not a routine procedure, see the Asia Times of March 16, 2004:

But while Spanish passions could well be expected to influence judgement, what of the 14 remaining members of the Security Council? And notably, this was the first instance of a terrorist attack where any group was ever explicitly condemned by the council, let alone done so in five minutes.

Explaining how ETA came to be blamed, the council's French president, Ambassador Jean-Marc de la Sabliere, said: "The Spanish government stated that, and the Spanish delegation has asked the council to put this element in their resolution and members of the council accepted it." The US ambassador to the United Nation, John Negroponte, explained that blame was assigned to ETA at the Spanish government's urging, and because "it is the judgement of the government of Spain that these attacks were carried out by ETA and we have no information to the contrary".

Though repeated questions were raised in many quarters, and the head of Europol, Juergen Storbeck, had voiced reservations regarding ETA's involvement, the Security Council nevertheless chose to condemn ETA. But the fact that council members such as the US and France chose to portray their action based upon the Spanish government's wishes, illustrated a concurrent distancing from the decision. The council's actions were appreciated as questionable from their outset.

Aznars policy towards Iraq was one thing and for sure he was important to counterbalance the old Europe, but when he had a choice to name Islam he chose not to do so, even though the Al Qaeda statement was already out. There's nothing wrong with naming a domestic suspect on a domestic level, but there's something inconsistent in taking the issue to the international level while ignoring the prime international suspect. And this inconsistence hints to the suggestions of Spanish LGFers that he might not have been fully honest about ETA before.

96 Paco from Sefarad  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 4:04:29am

U.N. Loses Face Over Hurried Vote on Spain Bombing

Read the whole thing:

U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan stopped short of criticising the Spanish government Tuesday for misleading the Security Council into believing that last week's train bombings in Madrid were the handiwork of ETA separatists..

UNITED NATIONS, Mar 16 (IPS) - The Council adopted a resolution last Thursday by a vote of 15-0 condemning ''in the strongest terms the bomb attacks in Madrid, Spain, perpetrated by the terrorist group ETA''.

[snip]

Asked if he was concerned at the way the Security Council rushed into condemning ETA, Annan said, ''I think there is a lesson here for everybody, including the council members''.

[snip]

''Since then, as a result of the active efforts of the Spanish security forces, new elements have been discovered that suggest other lines of investigation, and point to the involvement of citizens of other countries in the attacks,'' the letter said.

The al-Qaeda terrorist group of Osama bin Laden or other Islamic militants are now believed to be the prime suspects in the bombings.

But not everyone is buying the argument that the Spanish government was naive. ''The Security Council was taken for a mighty ride,'' an Asian diplomat told IPS, speaking on condition of anonymity.

''Some of the members are angry and embarrassed about the entire episode. This has never happened before,'' he added.

The council has yet to make an official statement on the flawed resolution but one is expected in the near future because the statement must be officially removed from the council record.

Judging by reports coming out of Madrid, the diplomat said, the Spanish government exploited the bombing for its own political ends. ''But unfortunately it misfired,'' he added.

[snip]

El Pais, a leading Spanish newspaper, said Sunday the outgoing Aznar government had briefed is diplomats overseas to blame ETA for the bombings.

''You should use any opportunity to confirm ETA's responsibility for these brutal attacks, thus helping to dissipate any type of doubt that certain interested parties may want to promote,'' the newspaper quoted Foreign Minister Ana Palacio as saying in a message to embassies overseas.

[snip]

Ambassador Abdallah Baali of Algeria, one of the non-permanent members of the Security Council, expressed doubts after the vote. ''If it is established in two days that it was someone else, that would be really embarrassing''.

Norman Solomon, executive director of the Washington-based Institute for Public Accuracy, has a different interpretation of the Security Council's hasty judgement on the Madrid bombings.

'Does the list of U.N. Security Council responsibilities include providing urgent assistance to boost the domestic political fortunes of government leaders aligned with Washington?'' he asked.

''In this case, that's how the Security Council acted. It would have not required more than one minute, let alone five, to properly condemn the terrible Mar. 11 bombings in Spain. But to name the group purportedly responsible, simply on the say-so of the Aznar government, was an outrageous action that provides a glimpse of the U.N.'s structural rot,'' Solomon told IPS.

''The journey into Alice In Wonderland -- first the verdict, then the evidence -- has shamed every nation state that voted for the resolution'', said Solomon, author of 'Target Iraq: What the News Media Didn't Tell You'.

97 piglet  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 10:09:32am

OT


Michael Moore at it again:

And he talked up his next book, a collection of such letters, entitled "Will They Ever Trust Us Again? Letters from the War Zone," which will be out in early October. He encouraged his audience to "Xerox and steal" the tome.

Can we liberate his household goods as well? As in does his publisher mind if he screws them by encouraging bootleg copies?


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