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The Spin Gets More Desperate

Tue, Sep 21, 2004 at 3:44:37 pm PDT

Here’s the latest desperate spin from the left, already being pushed on CNN by Terry McAuliffe (and immediately picked up and parroted by Smirky):

The hot rumor in New York political circles has Roger Stone, the longtime GOP activist, as the source for Dan Rather’s dubious Texas Air National Guard “memos.”

The irony would be delicious, since Rather became famous confronting President Nixon, in whose service a very young Stone became associated with political “dirty tricks.”

Reached at his Florida home, Stone had no comment.

This is another one of those whacked-out theories that relies on its intended audience to be gullible morons.

If you’re trying to convince someone that forged documents supposedly from the 1970s are genuine, you don’t just type them out with the default settings of Microsoft Word and run them through a copier twice.

There are pretty high stakes in this game; is it even remotely plausible that Stone, or anyone else, would have tried to pass off such incredibly inept forgeries as real, when the whole game depended on the patsy (CBS News) believing they were genuine? How could a GOP operative have known that nobody at CBS—not an editor, not a producer, not Dan Rather himself—would notice the obvious fraud?

You wouldn’t have to be an evil genius to drive over to the local pawn shop and pick up an old typewriter for a few dollars, and create something that would be much harder to recognize as a fake.

The theory is ridiculous on its face.

But that hasn’t stopped these people yet.

UPDATE at 9/21/04 5:59:03 pm:

Smirky checks his referrer log.

Professional hate-monger Charles Johnson is calling me names again. How cute. I suppose he had to remove his hood to get the words out.

The really funny part of this (and I’m talking hilarious here): check out what young Ollie linked to as proof of my “hate-mongering.” He’s too dense to realize he linked to a parody of the Nazi-smear quiz that one of my stalkers put on the web. He just remembered seeing a great smear involving Nazis, did a quick Google, and came up with a post that defends me. And didn’t even notice it. What a maroon. (Watch him change it now to point to the real one.)

I don’t think George Soros is getting his money’s worth from Smirky.

UPDATE at 9/21/04 7:22:40 pm:

As amusing as the Oliver Willis sideshow is, here are some other facts about Roger Stone, the guy being touted as a “GOP operative” by McAuliffe and the shills.

Stone left the Republican party sometime after 1996, when he resigned from the Dole campaign in disgrace after he was revealed to have sought a sex partner in a swinger’s magazine. Then he declared himself an independent.

Last year, Stone emerged as a financial backer for Al Sharpton, having loaned the Reverend’s campaign a couple hundred thousand dollars.

In 1986 he called the elder George Bush a “weenie” and was blacklisted by the party leadership. In 1992 he was quoted by Maureen Dowd in the New York Times calling Young Republicans at the party’s convention in Houston “Hitler youth.”

The Republican party spit this guy out long ago.

UPDATE at 9/22/04 12:30:14 pm:

And don’t miss Smirky’s latest, in which he changes his link (as I predicted above) to another post that defends me.

I was going to snark at young Ollie again, but you know ... I’m actually starting to feel a little sorry for him. He’s trying so hard.

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164 comments

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1 addison  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 1:49:04pm

This plays into that larger theme of the Democrat Party that nothing that befalls them is ever their fault. Someone else, a Republican thug, is always the culprit.

2 chris_l  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 1:49:51pm
3 Jim in Virginia  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 1:50:15pm

Denial is moe than a river in Egypt.
Actualluy, I think this rumor is proof that the Dems have very sticky fingers on this issue- they are trying to get ahead of the story that will be in WaPo or NBC news in a couple days showing their guilt.

4 Dianna  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 1:50:49pm

"I knew they were stupid. I never thought they were this stupid."

I said that a couple weeks ago, and I'm still having trouble believing my eyes. No, this was not a Republican hoax. This was a lemming-like leap over the cliff.

5 kathyn  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 1:51:03pm

This looks like it's going to be right up there with The Protocols, the way it's going. Yeah, it's all the fault of the GOP>Neocons>Zionistas. This is just all so smarmy.

I hope Rather, et al, go down in flames.

6 jakethesnake  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 1:51:03pm

They're just adding fuel to the fire. I don't think they get it yet. These are brand new times.

7 Jim in Virginia  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 1:51:14pm

I question the timing of this!

8 jrdroll  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 1:51:41pm
The hot rumor in New York political circles has Roger Stone


Part of Katrina vanden Heuvel's deluded dilettantes?

9 RWW  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 1:52:10pm

The forgeries were done by an inept forger. Hmmm, inept forger. Kerry is inept. Using CBS standards that makes him the guy!

10 zulubaby  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 1:52:13pm

Smirky? LOL!!

11 Sergio  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 1:52:14pm

Rove must be like a mythical godlike creature to these fools. Perhaps he's like the Kwisatz Haderach from the Dune books: can bend space and time and read his opponent's minds.

Only a genius of primordeal brilliance could predict that CBS would go for such obvious forgeries.

Maybe he's working for the Zionist Conspiracy.

That's it! Duh (slaps forehead). Now it all makes sense.

12 Bayonet  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 1:52:46pm

Roger Stone - wasn't he Al Sharpton's consultant, too?

From the sublime to the ridiculous.

Panjamarines

HuuRah

13 kathyn  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 1:53:53pm

#6 I gave you a Rather nice segue away, doncha think?
...".down in flames." ... "adding fuel to the fire." (Well, I thought so, anyway.)

14 pat  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 1:55:17pm

Bizzare to the point of being........well, truly bizzare.

15 J.D.  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 1:55:53pm

At what point will they

drive over to the local pawn shop and pick up an old typewriter for a few dollars, and create something that would be much harder to recognize as a fake.


Then they can pull the *real* document out of Sandy Burglar's pants thin air.

The scam is getting a little harder to keep alive, it seems to me. But nowadays......

16 Studsup  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 1:55:54pm

I almost hate to post in response to anyMcCauliffe's tinfoil rant because at some level, just drawing attention to his latest "I saw Elvis" spin is a victory for him.

BUT, I find it amusing that if this Roger Stone truly pulled a "sting" on DNC/Kerry/CBS, aren't those three perps still guility? It only means that the Stone/Rove cabal put out the bait, but who exactly rushed into the trap? CBS is still biased and colludes with the DNC violating campaign laws. The DNC and Kerry are still involved in slandering the President during war time for political advantage.

Hey, Terry, if your only defense was that "we were venal and stupid enough to fall for it", you and your cohorts are real sick puppies.

17 Atlas Wannabe  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 1:56:10pm

Maybe the forged memos were created by someone that wanted to punish Bush, had a history with the TANG issue, and was dumb - or crazy - enough to think that docs from Word would be accepted by CBS News AND survive third party inspection.

Sound like anyone connected to the story?

18 Jim in Virginia  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 1:56:34pm

I've long since ceased to be surprised by the arrogance of the network news elites. But I'm still astounded that they can be so stupid.
An Ivy league degree used to mean something.

19 john5z  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 1:58:01pm

You don't need to go and buy an old typewritter. You could go to Staples or Office depot, buy one of those electrics they sell - with old fashioned spacing and a courier font - and just type a memo and xerox it a dozen times.

These guys are so bogfuss (bogus dofuss).

20 Doss  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 1:58:50pm

NBC just had a praiseworthy piece on bloggers as fact-checkers for the MSM. Bloggers weren't shown as malcontents or loose cannons, but as the highly opinionated people whose collective as the blogosphere now forms a new facet of news distribution, especially notable for their speed in pushing a story. Scott Johnson was on (when the hell are they going to put Charles on one of these?) and there was nary a pajama comment nor any snarkiness at all. Good job, NBC.

21 Scriptfox  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 1:59:06pm

Sergio, the unknown forger also has to predict that a screwball like Burkett will be believed, and that it will go to CBS... and not ABC, or USA Today.... quite a set of predictions.

I loved the line from Burkett's (now former) lawyer that Burkett himself had doubts about the documents but that CBS said they would authenticate them. It could well be cya (hey, I didn't fall for those things either!) but if not, it means that CBS and Dan Rather are more gullible than someone who has gone through crippling mental and physical disease and who is obsessed with destroying Bush... how pitiful is that?

22 dy/dx  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 1:59:33pm

As Dennis Prager (kinda) states: these are very clarifying times. I haven't been over at Indy or DU today, but it's entertaining (and scary) to watch how those guys over there take something like this and just ooooze idiocy.

dy/dx

23 rabidfox  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:00:22pm

I've been gone a week with a power outage and come back to THESE fascinating developments! WOW THis story not only has legs, but they are long and strong.

24 Another Thought  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:01:32pm

I agree that the fact that Terry MacAwful is trying to spread such a loony rumor is a sign that the Dems are worried about this issue, because they must be involved themselves.

If a Republican came up with such a devious plan, I am sure they would have come up with better forgeries. The success of any such plan would depend on the forgeries being good enough to get past the vetting at CBS News. No one in their right mind would use MS Word to craft forgeries and hope that CBS News wouldn't notice.

I think the DNC must be very worried about now...

25 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:02:48pm

#21 Scriptfox

Sergio, the unknown forger also has to predict that a screwball like Burkett will be believed, and that it will go to CBS... and not ABC, or USA Today.... quite a set of predictions.

I loved the line from Burkett's (now former) lawyer ...

Hey

How come this guy is now a FORMER lawyer. Last week Burkett was telling everyone to speak to this lawyer. This was Burketts go to man.

Former... ? Some one jumping ship?

Walter in Denver

26 Renna  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:03:06pm

Never forget that if these hadn't been done on Word, if the forger had simply gotten an old typewriter, everyone might have believed CBS's story that they had the documents "authenticated" beyond just having some people look at the signature.

27 Michael Moore's Dromedary  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:03:17pm

Oh Tee

Ketchup Lady on hubby's speech today:

"He rocked, didn't he," the candidate's wife Teresa Heinz Kerry declared. "There's a time for everything and it was time for him to take off the gloves."


/watery bowels

28 kamperken  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:05:12pm

Actually, this reminds me of both the Reichstag Fire and the Kirov murder. The perpetrators immediately blamed their opposition for the commission of these crimes. A typical totalitarian tactic. The democrats are truly the heirs to this tradition.

btw, I'm a former democrat, though my conversion predates Charles by a couple of decades.

29 Michael Moore's Dromedary  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:05:18pm

oh...and....Kelp Is On The Way

30 Rev-O  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:06:09pm

My boss is getting pissed. I keep laughing out loud and he thinks that I'm laughing at him. It's been like this all day. I hereby request that you put some sort of icon warning in the title that descibes the story as a gut-busting hilarious leftist delusion. Perhaps put a hand grabbing at straw, or, the letters MMIBSF (Michael Moore Induced Bull-S*** Fantasy. I need a warning. I need to keep this job.

This goes for the posters too. Try being a bit more humorless...like a dhimmocrat.

31 mdaia313  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:07:06pm

More than a thousand words could say. Cox and Forkum hit a grand slam!

Kerry vs Keery

32 levi from queens  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:07:28pm

The New York Sun has a good article on the political connections oF Viacom. The CEO, Sumner Redstone is a selk-described liberal democrat who has given a little $ to John McCain and oodles to democrats. His daughter, the heir-apparent, has only given to dems. (yet another father-daughter story in this thing) They have a Viacom PAC which gives roughly equal amounts to each party. linky

33 Another Thought  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:08:20pm

Van Os is propably no longer Burkett's lawyer because he doesn't want to be associated with that crazy dude...also, as a major Dem operative, he doesn't want such a tie between the party and Burkett...

Maybe as part of the deal Burkett made with CBS was that he would be supplied legal counsel. Perhaps then CBS contacted the DNC/Kerry Kamp who then provided Van Os as the legal counsel, as a show of support and encouragement to Burkett.

Also, the Dems were probably counting on the story being accepted as true, and so were probably relishing a scenario where, after the story airs and takes the nation by storm, Burkett steps forward with more of his tales about Bush, and a Dem lawyer by his side to claim some of the glory.

34 Renna  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:09:30pm
documents whose authenticity could not be verified

It's not counterfeit money, officer, they're just twenties whose authenticity could not be verified.

35 JamesHudnall  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:12:39pm

The DNC issued a press release challenging the RNC to "come clean" on the memos.

[Link: www.democrats.org...]

Next they're going to say the escaped clones of Elvis are working with Karl Rove and the Swift Vets

36 FloridaHeat  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:15:54pm

I don't think THEY are doing anything different.

Charles and his Pajamarines are here to stare them down.

They had BETTER start doing things differently, or they will crumble like autumn leaves in the cold wind of winter.

37 Nancy  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:15:56pm

They will float just about every possible GOP theory they can think of.

What an irony though to keep claiming how clever the GOP are that they can fool just about every Democrat not even, as you say, anything brilliant --just blatant fakes.

They are so intent on blaming the Republicans they don't even realize they are implying how stupid they are! How easily conned they are!!!!!!!!

Why would the GOP even do that when Bush was leading? Why in fact would the GOP raise negative issues about their OWN candidate in order to discredit another candidate? That's just idiotic.

Are they claiming then that the GOP orchastrated the entire Democrat campaign for all the press --Boston Globe and others, the new ads and videos to ALL come out at the same time as the memos?

Are they claiming that it was the GOP who "rushed" CBS into airing the story without taking time to examine the documents?

Not only absurd --idiotic. You can be absolutely SURE that CBS would have investigated them if they even SUSPECTED for a nano second they had come from the GOP. They KNEW they did not because I think CBS KNOWS where they are from.

38 J.D.  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:15:57pm

#35 James Hudnall
Give. Me. A. Break.

39 Beagle  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:16:14pm

The forgeries are accepted as genuine by CBS. This means Bush gets hurt, off message (war on terror), and the news cycle goes against the candidate until November. It's too dangerous to hope you can prove forgery somewhere down the road. There is no upside.

The forgeries are not accepted as genuine by CBS. Bush still gets off message. Vietnam has never been a winning issue for GWB. CBS not only does not cover the story up, but launces a full investigation on who passed the documents off. On the other hand, knowing the source was a Democrat, CBS stonewalled like a castle.

The only way this could work for the Republicans is for them to pass off fakes, knowing CBS would be too stupid to figure them out, also knowing nobody could track them back to the source -- too risky and unnecessary. Bush was up in the polls when this started. Finally, you'd have to be certain you could pin the forgery on a Democrat afterwards.

But Bill Burkett being an angry partisan, prone to BDS, is obviously true. The Democrats were floating this crap back in February.

Stone,

"No comment." - Translation: WTF?!

40 justdanny  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:16:23pm

OT

Strange having Burkett on my AIM buddy list. Watching him going online and offline. I've sent him three messages so far, no reponse. At five messages I'll dlelete him if he has'nt responded. I don't want the dem'ented turtles of planet Yrrekia coming after me.

41 beblebrox  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:17:08pm

#30 Rev-O

This goes for the posters too. Try being a bit more humorless...like a dhimmocrat.

Then I suppost it's right out linking you to things like this.

42 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:17:49pm

I wish the DNC would ask me if I had anything to do with the documents.

DNC:
"Did you have anything to do with the forged documents?"

Me:
"I refuse to say I didn't have anything to do with those forged documents."

Hey... you DU idiots, I'm waiting for my 15 minutes of fame. Look... look what I didn't say... please quote me...

Walter in Denver (waiting to show up on Drudge)

43 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:18:43pm

But my Dog did!!!

Walter in Denver

44 J.D.  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:18:46pm

I have to go to the bank and Kroger. Please don't hit the millionth post while I'm gone. I don't want to miss the bells and whistles; the fireworks; the music it.

45 Cam  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:19:08pm

#2 chris_l:

The worst part of his pathetic open letter was, even though he was trying to be funny, he missed the wide-open Bruce Springsteen reference. I mean who doesn't recall that "Born to Run" was the Boss' break-out song? Sheesh. Mark Steyn he ain't.

46 Luigi  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:19:14pm

There is only one explanation. The Dems don't want to talk about health care, the environment, the war in Iraq, education, immigration, trade, minimum wage, workplace rules, social security, arms control...

47 Renna  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:19:20pm

Well, since Charles was the one to make a perfect overlay match, obviously Charles made the forgeries.

48 RBMN  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:19:42pm

Whoever they try pinning this Killian forgery on, has to flunk an IQ test--a very modest IQ test--first, before I'm convinced.

49 blt  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:20:08pm

"How could a GOP operative have known that nobody at CBS—not an editor, not a producer, not Dan Rather himself—would notice the obvious fraud?"

Exactly. It had to be a conspiracy where CBS would be completed fooled, but bloggers in pajamas would catch on instantly. If a conspiracy a pretty damn stupid conspiracy.

DNC desperation!

50 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:20:11pm

No dammit... I did... Johnson already got his 15 minutes... me.... me next.

Walter in Denver

51 RubberDuck  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:20:22pm

That's it!

Stone = Buckhead

52 Renna  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:20:38pm

RBMN #48

Like a butterfly ballot?

53 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:20:56pm

no...

Walter = Buckhead

54 Luigi  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:21:38pm

Is John Edwards still running for Vice President? I think he fell off the earth. No wait, he just doesn't want to get involved. He only takes cases he can win.

55 The Other Les  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:21:50pm

Reality is unreal to these people.

56 FrankNH  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:23:49pm

OT
From the Kerry Spot
[Link: www.nationalreview.com...]

SWIFTIES ARE BACK [09/21 05:23 PM]

The Swift Boat Vets for Truth have apparently readied their sixth ad, but I can't get the link to work. One guy who saw it called it "absolutely devastating", another called it "the weakest one so far." According to a blogger at Red State, this ad buy is going to be much larger than the others.

UPDATE: Here's a transcript:

Opens With: Footage of Jane Fonda
Cuts To: Stills of Kerry, protesters, then Kerry testifying

Cuts to: Fonda at a press conference

Announcer: "Even before Jane Fonda went to Hanoi to meet with the enemy and mock America, John Kerry secretly met with enemy leaders in Paris. Though we were still at war and Americans were being held in North Vietnamese prison camps. Then, he returned and accused American troops of committing war crimes on a daily basis. Eventually Jane Fonda apologized for her activities, but John Kerry refuses to. In a time of war, can America trust a man who betrayed his country?"

57 Dave the.....  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:23:50pm
"No comment." - Translation: WTF?!


Stone, he has to be thinking that.


Terry McAuliffe is sitting in a chair right now, shuffling two steel marbles back and forth in one hand, mumbling "it's the documents, that damn documents, all I want to know is what happened to the doucments."

58 tucker  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:24:07pm

How come the irony is only "delicious" if it's aimed at a Republican?

59 justdanny  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:24:27pm

OT

Any ideas what my next message to Burkett should be ? He's online.

60 Nancy  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:24:28pm

OT --CBS woes are only beginning -

CBS Faces New Charges Over Discredited Bush Report
Tue Sep 21, 2004 06:06 PM ET -------At issue was a report in USA Today ………...

Experts in media ethics said if the report were true, CBS may have overstepped the boundary between journalism and politics. The network said it would investigate the matter.

"It is obviously against CBS News standards and those of every other reputable news organization to be associated with any political agenda," CBS News said in a statement.

MORE: [Link: www.reuters.com...]

61 jakethesnake  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:24:34pm

It's awfully quiet in Chappaquidick.

62 one-truth-poney  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:25:11pm

Actually........

Boy Rove secretly hypnotized Kerry 30 years ago, left him as a sleeper all this time..........

Oh the genious of his boyhood evilness......

BWA HAHAHAHA

63 zturlte  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:25:56pm

Kerry hasn't changed in 20 years, he just keeps changes his comments or flip flops to try to hide the fact he hasn't changed.

64 Craig Abu Al-Boo-Boo  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:26:00pm

This isn't denial, it's misdirection.

McAuliffe, Cleland, Estrich and Lockhart want to pull attention away from themselves.

65 Luigi  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:26:36pm

No, I was wrong. John Edwards hasn't dropped off the ticket. He's still in the center of the fray, making headlines:

John Edwards To Speak At Bond Hill Community Center

66 Beagle  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:28:00pm

#57 Dave the.....

Let's imagine Stone denies it. The following headline appears instead:

Republican operative, once dirty trickster for Nixon, denies having anything to do with forged memos

You can't win when the media wants to scapegoat you. McAuliffe is desperate.

67 Luigi  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:28:24pm

One last observation about Edwards. As Patton said to the sleeping soldier in North Africa: "Go back to sleep, son. You're the only sonofabitch who knows what he's doing around here."

68 sgt tom  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:28:35pm

1millionth!?!?!?!

it's unbelievable the koolaid these people drink...
it just completely blows the mind.

i'm thinking of typing up some manuscripts (using comic sans) of letters from constantine to the outlying provinces... i can drive to the waco kinko's, make some copies, and fax them out to cbs...
sounds like a good plan, right?

69 Havoc  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:29:29pm

Mc-Skippy! "We are winnignk many victories beating back their forces, destroying their soldiers, They have not entered Bahgdad."

McLoo er Mc-Skippy is in major, desperate cartoonish damage control.

6 more weeks, he's cooked.

70 andrew  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:29:35pm

justdanny

Offer him a chance to converse with the blogger that kicked his ass.

71 Dave the.....  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:29:38pm

I think I want my 15 minutes. So I'll take responsiblity for them. I had Halliburton print them up, but they screwed it up by using MSWord. Big Oil was suppose to proof read them but they were too busy screwing over minorities.

Then a Nazi delivered them after starving the old people, and a Zionist (aka neo-con) council finished the job.

72 coyote  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:29:58pm

Wow. Just...wow.

They really are THAT stupid.

How did any of these clowns get put into positions of responsibility? This stunt belongs on a "Stupid Criminals" segment.

I'm betting this forged document scandal ends up bigger than Watergate. Only more humorous. And more dangerous.

73 Cam  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:30:03pm

To any:

Did anyone ever here whether or not that union thug from the Edwards appearance the other day - the one that made the toddler cry - was ever identified and/or charged with anything?

Thanks to anyone who knows.

74 justdanny  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:30:48pm

How close is this mythical millionth post anyway ?

75 The Other Les  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:31:01pm

I was just over at Drudge, what's the deal with the yellow band?

76 CheezNCrackers  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:31:22pm

Allah says Charles was on NBC?

I guess I am lost as far as dates.

WHat year is this?

77 Cam  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:32:51pm

#75 The Other Les:

It's worn in solidarity with those suffering from cancer, and is available (I think) for a dollar from the Lance Armstrong Foundation.

But don't feel bad. I thought it was a waterslide pass to the amusement park 'til z'babe pointed me in the right direction.

;-)

78 erik144  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:32:51pm

You're doing a great job Charles, but I think that is a weak argument.

You are saying: If republicans made them, they would be better forgeries.

That is the same defense the Kerryites were spouting last week: If these were forgeries, they would look better. The fact that they look like forgeries proves they are real!

I actually had people make that argument to me.

The point is, they ARE FORGERIES, and they WERE MADE BY SOMEONE

Saying they are "too bad to be form my side" does not really stand as an argument, by anyone.

79 Samita  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:33:58pm

Watch the new swiftboat add URL

http://swift3.he.net/~swift3/friends.wmv

80 jrdroll  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:34:16pm

#75 the other les

what's the deal with the yellow band?


Maybe this:

The Yellow Wristband Project
For champion cyclist Lance Armstrong, a cancer survivor, yellow is more than just the color of the Tour de France's leader jersey. It's a symbol for hope, courage, and perseverance. In celebration of Armstrong, who has inspired millions of people to overcome adversity, Outside is working with NIKE to raise $6 million for the Lance Armstrong Foundation (LAF). This fundraising effort will help the Foundation to enhance the quality of life of young cancer patients and their families.


[Link: outside.away.com...]

81 justdanny  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:34:33pm

#70 andrew

"Would you consider talking with the owner of the blog that proved the memos were forgeries?"

Message sent. Waiting for a reply .....

82 dbdukes  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:35:44pm

#75 The Other Les

Perhaps it's like the one I wear, supporting cancer research.

For more info, to to http://www.wearyellow.com/. I don't know that's what he's wearing, but it looks like it.

83 AmeriCAN  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:36:45pm

(HINT)
He lied to us all. He ignored his own experts. He charged ahead unilaterally. He led his men and women into a quagmire they can't get out of. Because of his ineptness, many will lose everything. Heads will roll. He will not say he was wrong.
(ANSWER)
Dan Rather and cBS

84 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:37:01pm

I'm saying I made them. Look... they were drafts. I had 3 fax numbers for my contacts at the DNC. I wasn't sure which one I was suspose to send the drafts to (So... I drank a six pack of Mickeys while I was working on the docs), and I suspect I sent them to the wrong fax machine.

The person that I thought I was faxing to was going to look over the text and make suggestions. After giving me the go ahead, then my roommate Critter was going to re-type with vintage equipment, and then fax again.

I never heard from the DNC after faxing the drafts. But 3 days later a truck pulled up to the house and dropped off 6 kegs of Mickeys.

All is not lost.

/:)

Walter in Denver

85 justdanny  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:37:14pm

#76 CheezNCrackers

Charles was not on the NBC news tonight. Johnson from Powerline was. There was no mention of LGF or Charles.

86 Charles  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:37:21pm

NBC asked me to be on today, but I had too much other stuff scheduled this morning and afternoon.

87 Cam  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:39:49pm

#86 Charles:

I had too much other stuff scheduled this morning and afternoon.

Did any of it involve 70 mile bicycle rides?

;-)

88 ibrodsky  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:39:58pm

Has anyone noticed this? There is a video interview with the contrite-sounding but insincere Rather at CBSNews.com. Rather whistles every time he pronounces a word with an "s" sound...

He sounds contrite, but obviously has not been put in his place. His only regret is that they used the documents in the story. Hasn't said one word about the fact that without the forged documents he has only hearsay to go on. Most important, he hasn't apologized to the President for using forged documents from untrustworthy sources to attack his character in the final weeks of a Presidential campaign.

Rather deserves to be fired. If CBS really wants to "restore" (ha!) viewers' trust, they should announce a plan to clean up their entire organization, bring an end to biased and politically-motivated reporting, and refocus on just getting the facts straight.

89 Charles  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:40:20pm

erik144 wrote:

You are saying: If republicans made them, they would be better forgeries.

No, I'm saying that if you're trying to pull off a fraud, and convince your victim/mark/patsy that it's NOT a fraud, you don't hand the entire CBS News team a bunch of obvious fakes. Has nothing to do with Republicans/Democrats.

90 Charles  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:41:20pm

Cam: nope, not today!

91 Jim in Virginia  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:44:41pm

60 Nancy I love it!
But "overstepped"? Like the Titanic hit an ice cube. Like Maryland got whomped by WV.
Theyr'e clear off the field and down the block.

93 Renna  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:46:07pm

#73 Cam

Last I heard the union hasn't found him yet BUT the moonbats are saying they have. They claim he is the older brother of Sophia, the attack was staged, and their evidence is a family photo that in their opinion looks like the bully. Sophia's dad said that was crazy to which they replied, "See? He didn't say it wasn't." and "Well, of course he would say that. It doesn't prove it isn't his son so it must prove it IS his son."

This particular family does make a habit of going to opposition events and have been attacked three times, it seems. Once they smuggled 12 signs into an opponents rally and had them snatched away one by one. From this one could absolutely say they are baiting for reaction from Dems, but if they bait by standing peacefully holding a sign, I still consider the other guys the bad guys in this.

And the President did send her a new sign, autographed.

I got most of this information from liberal websites, so...grain of salt.

94 Ghost  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:48:29pm

Burkett is demented enough and hateful enough to swear that it was Stone who met him in the parking lot and gave him the memos.

Btw, Dan Rather is still saying that he doesn't believe that the memos are fraudulent! Brit Hume commented this evening that Dan's denial is "sad.... so sad".

95 Cam  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:50:02pm

#93 Renna:

A grain? Hell, I'll take it with the whole cellar!

;-)

#90 Charles:

Take a break man!

96 coyote  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:50:15pm
No, I'm saying that if you're trying to pull off a fraud, and convince your victim/mark/patsy that it's NOT a fraud, you don't hand the entire CBS News team a bunch of obvious .

A reasonable argument for the premise that no-one was trying to pull off a fraud on CBS. They were obvious 'fakes'. CBS never believed for a moment that they were genuine. They were never fooled. CBS was engaged in collusion with whomever provided the documents.

97 Lewis  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:56:26pm

#2 chris_l

Lovely.

Mike al-Moore:

Just for me, please? Buck up. The country is almost back in our hands. Not another negative word until Nov. 3rd! Then you can bitch all you want about how you wish Kerry was still that long-haired kid who once had the courage to stand up for something. Personally, I think that kid is still inside him. Instead of the wailing and gnashing of your teeth, why not hold out a hand to him and help the inner soldier/protester come out and defeat the forces of evil we now so desperately face. Do we have any other choice?

Well then. So this is what it's come to?

Most of you have probably figured this out already (okay, so I'm a little slow on the uptake), but THIS mentality pretty much explains why the left hates conservatives more than murderous totalitarian dictators. They've seen true evil for what it is, and it looks a lot more like George W. Bush than Uncle Joe Stalin (or his protege, Saddam Hussein) to them.

But I wouldn't want to question their patriotism or anything.

98 Another Thought  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:56:32pm

I think it is also clear that it was Burkett who created the fakes. The forged docs contain many terms common to the Army and not the Air Force, and that fits in with Burkett's background. Plus, this story had been peddled by Burkett for a long time...it's not like this is anything new, the product of some wily Republican conspirator.

The questions Terry needs to answer are what did you know and when did you know it?

99 Asylum Aleikum  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:56:43pm

Terry McAuliffe acts as though he were determined to keep Rathergate in the center of attention, and maybe he is....

If there is a conspiracy, it involves Clintonites working behind the scenes to sink Kerry's candidacy.

100 Bayonet  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:56:47pm

#83


THAT, my man, is VERY, VERY FUNNY!!!


LOL

101 beblebrox  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 2:58:56pm

Note to CBS:

Dan, boy am I glad you are around! I have been everywhere trying to get someone to publish these screenshots of the Doppler Radar from the bridge of the Titanic. I found them in the trash outside White Star Lines corporate offices let me see now, it must have been in 19 and 12 (or was it 1913?) Anyways, it doesn't matter, I just want to get the bastards, and I know you do too, Dan. BTW: can you get me in touch with Joe Lockhart? I have it on good authority that George W Bush was behind this, or was is Prescott.... It doesn't matter, they're all bastards, those dirty Bushies and with your help, dan, we'll take them down. Give me your fax number and I'll send over the proof that Titanic knew! I bet you anything that those SOS Bushies got stock in Lloyd's. It was some kind of insurance job, I just know it.

102 Ghost  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 3:04:07pm

Very important:
Whoever typed up the documents had no way of knowing that CBS would make them available for close scrutiny. CBS could have just read them on air, or read parts of them on air, or said, "we have proof in writing", or whatever. The documents could have easily stayed unchallenged.

Nobody would deliberately plant forgeries because they intend for them to be exposed as forgeries... unless you are certain that they are indeed going to be exposed as forgeries!

If the documents hadn't been shown on air and hadn't been available for download, Memogate would never have been revealed. No, whoever is behind this all never expected everyone to find out that they were forgeries.

103 petermcc  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 3:08:37pm

Answer the following:

Dan Rather will

A - be fired,

B - resign before he's fired,

C - continue on as if nothing serious has happened.

104 Gruen  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 3:17:23pm

Interesting point to all this is corporate governance experts are saying the Board of Viacom are obliged to ge involved in this debacle at CBS. After all the brand is being tarnished and it's in their shareholders interests to correct this.

But wait......

The political leanings of Viacom's board and senior management may undermine the credibility of any action the board may take. Viacom's chairman and CEO, Sumner Redstone, is a self-described "liberal Democrat" and a MAJOR donor to the Democrats. The company has 13 board members. 8 contribute primarily to Democratic candidates and party committees. Two other members of the board, Joseph Califano and William Cohen, held cabinet posts under Democratic presidents.

Other Democratic donors on the Viacom board include: two Boston attorneys, George Abrams and David Andelman; a Manhattan investor, Philippe Dauman; the chairman of Bear Stearns, Alan Greenberg; a law professor at Yeshiva University, William Schwartz, and the president of the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, Patricia Stonesifer.

Good grief! No wonder Viacom have been so slow to act and no wonder Dan Blather thought he could get away with it.......

105 ibu guru  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 3:20:42pm

#64

This isn't denial, it's misdirection.

Classic disinformation campaign, starting with the misdirection tactic. First, deflect attention back to the "enemy" while you work out your cya strategy. They'll try everything else in the playbook, trying to stall off real investigation until after the election -- once their guy is in, there will be no investigation, they figure.

We already know Kerry is a traitor to his country, and betrayer of his fellow servicemen while he was still in uniform. What school of dirty tricks did he attend, or did he go straight into traitor school? How far up the Dhim party heirarchy does this forgery/deception mess go? To Terry McAwful? Or to Kerry himself? How much did he know, and when did he know it? How much did he do, and when did he do it?

I haven't seen/heard word one from Kerry on any of this, but there is such a hoohah over it, he had to find out something about it at some point. Certainly Joe Lockhart, a very senior staffer, would report a contact from CBS producer Mary Mapes about "potentially damaging docs" to his superior.

This is a very stinky POS, and more is buried beneath this. McAwful had better hold his nose a l-o-n-g time, because he's put himself deep in the doodoo now, even if he wasn't up to eyeballs in it already.

106 Obscure  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 3:22:05pm

That is completely crazy. It defies belief that the DNC would even suggest that that a Republican is behind this when Ockham's razor slices that argument to ribbons. The smartest move for the Democrats would be to ignore the whole thing and when asked about it blame it all on CBS not doing their homework. But this is twice that McAuliffe has chosen to blame Republicans for the forgery. Perhaps there is more to this story. It's already taken so many crazy twists and turns. Maybe there is more ahead. Also, I find it amusing and even interesting that CBS hasn't declared them forgeries yet but the Democrats have admitted right away what they are.

107 andrew  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 3:31:07pm

#106 Obscure

A very good post - thanks. Terry could be simply responding to polling numbers - he sees this thing as hurting Kerry, so he reacts like he's on autopilot. Just a thought...

108 scotsilv  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 3:32:15pm

PREDICTION:

Mr. Burkett will check himself into a hospital to "deal with his stress and siezure problem" (a.k.a. he will hide) in the very near future, hoping for the scandal to blow over!

109 'Nam Grunt  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 3:36:56pm

The American people care mostly about the WoT and Iraq, and the majority of them realize that GWB is the only answer to protect this Country, hence the 2 minute drill now started by hanoi john, with all of his blah, blah, blah about how he can do better total BS on his part IMHO.

110 Rufus Lee King  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 3:40:45pm

Saying the GOP would know and bet their freedom that CBS would be fooled by a child's forgery is the same kind of mental gymnastics the Free OJ goofballs pumped out to back their guy.

Yeah, the LAPD would take a huge crapshoot and frame OJ with fake blood evidence at the murder scene before even knowing if he had an airtight alibi that would prove their crime.

But hysterics will clutch at any straw.

111 noshariaincanada  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 3:41:08pm

Lots of interesting tidbits on CNN's Paula Zahn show airing now...too fast too summarize, and none of it is new to close followers of the story, BUT ... it is clear now that the White House is getting more aggressive about making the connection between the DNC and CBS and 'the Source'.

Of not is that Dan Bartlett states that Kerry was in the loop about Burkett talking w/ Cleland and Lockhart.

This story isn't going to die anytime soon.

112 noshariaincanada  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 3:41:54pm

i meant 'of NOTE' ... not 'of not' :)

113 David2  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 3:44:40pm

Could someone put me in contact with the Bush campaign? I have some information about Lisa Ramirez. Her name is an anagram for Tom Harkin!! AAAhhhhhh. Scuse me while I fall out on the floor for a few.

114 RoLev  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 3:45:07pm

Why does the DNC's logo consist of a donkey diving head first off of a cliff?

DNC Banner

Curious.

RoLev

115 SoCalJustice  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 3:51:32pm
116 Sloan  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 3:55:51pm

Is it the new strategy of the Democrats now that they are going to just toss out names and malign the character of whomever they consider a likely suspect, without presenting one shred of proof to substantiate their claims? It seems to me that is exactly what they're doing.

117 Dime IV  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 3:58:27pm

For Rove or anyone in the RNC to be involved in creating these fraudulent documents with the hopes that CBS would be stupid enough to think they were not fraudulent--even though the documents are ostentatiously fake---I just can't wrap my mind around that one.

It would be like me trying to pawn a 2004 Fender Standard Stratocaster electric guitar off on Charles--all while knowing he's an obviously intelligent man who knows a thing or two about guitars--as a classic 1957 Fender Stratocaster with the hopes that he would be fooled into thinking he could turn around and sell it for tens of thousands of dollars. I would certainly know better.

And Rove would know better than to engage in any such nonsense with forged documents.

I guess the LLL will go to any means to prove 2+2=5

Joel T.

118 cathyf  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 3:59:13pm

#78 erik144  

You're doing a great job Charles, but I think that is a weak argument.

You are saying: If republicans made them, they would be better forgeries.

That is the same defense the Kerryites were spouting last week: If these were forgeries, they would look better. The fact that they look like forgeries proves they are real!

I actually had people make that argument to me.

The point is, they ARE FORGERIES, and they WERE MADE BY SOMEONE

Saying they are "too bad to be form my side" does not really stand as an argument, by anyone.

Wrong, the arguments are not symmetric. If you are a republican operative attempting to entrap CBS, you have to make an utterly perfect prediction as to exactly how stupid the CBS guys were going to be. There was a huge risk that someone at CBS would have recognized them as forgeries. On the other hand, if CBS had not published the docs on their web site, then there is a good chance that the blogsphere wouldn't have caught the forgeries at all. If you are even the slightest bit wrong and the CBS guys are either too smart or too dumb then the whole "scheme" blows up and hurts Bush badly. Anyone smart enough to come up with such a scheme would have been smart enough to recognize the tremendous risk to his guy.

On the other hand, for this to have been perpetrated by a democratic operative all that is required is that the forger be stupid enough to think that they would work. If the forger was a lot stupider, then the results are still pretty much the same.

In order for a W supporter to think that the forgeries were a good idea the W supporter would need to have ESP. In order for a W detractor to think that the forgeries were a good idea the W detractor would need to not have ESP and also to be stupid.

So which is more likely, a republican operative with ESP or a democratic operative without ESP who is also stupid.

(If I were a republican operative who had ESP and could tell the future I sure as heck wouldn't be wasting my time predicting Dan Rather's idiocy. I'd use it for something useful, like telling me which way the stock market is going to move so that I could become "richer than the dreams of avarice" buying S&P options.)

cathy :-)

119 Eyobo  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 3:59:36pm

#115

Any guess as to who put CBS in touch with Burkett?

120 Rayra[deleted]  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 3:59:54pm
121 Charles  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 4:04:20pm

Please see my update about Soros operative Oliver Willis, and his hilarious attempt to smear me.

Really, it's damned funny. Willis is just as inept as whoever forged the Killian memos.

Hey! Maybe ... ya think?

122 FrankNH  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 4:04:59pm

OT:
John O'Neill will be on Hannitty tonight, talking about the new Swift Vets ad.

123 Dar ul Harb  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 4:09:02pm

#115,

From the ABCNews story (emphasis added):

Mapes, 48, was described by colleagues on Tuesday as a dogged and talented journalist who made no secret of her liberal political beliefs.

Hmmm. This is one of the first times I've ever heard a major news organization attribute "liberal political beliefs" to any journalist. And in a negative context, too.

I think we're seeing some progress here...

124 Lewis  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 4:12:09pm

#121 Charles

The really funny part of this: check out what young Ollie linked to as proof of my “hate-mongering.” I don’t think George Soros is getting his money’s worth from Smirky.

"Nazi or Blogger" ???!!!???

Oh fer cryin' out loud.

*sobs quietly, 'cause no one ever thinks I'm important enough to call a "digital brownshirt". Sob sob.*

Ahem. wHa+ a l0z3R!!!111!!!

125 Lewis  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 4:16:15pm

Oh wait a minute. Now that I've actually read - thoroughly read - the site that Ollie linked to ...

Man!

That is too funny. Someone needs more caffeine.

126 Charles  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 4:16:35pm

Lewis: it's even funnier -- because what Willis linked to is a parody of the Nazi-smear quiz, a parody that's very much on my side.

Thanks, Ollie!

By the way, the original version of this quiz featured a Photoshopped image with my head pasted onto the body of Eva Braun, sitting next to Adolf in the bunker at the end.

That Ollie is a class guy, all right.

127 monkeyweather  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 4:17:29pm

ahahaha he calls you a hate monger then says you are a KKK member?
oh my - charles methinks shirky has taken you in dislike! :OP
maybe if you laugh loud enough and long enough at skanky's stupidity, he will burst a blood vessel

128 Lewis  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 4:19:31pm

Yep, Charles.

Me and Ollie the both of us need teh caffeine.

I've heard Ollie's name mentioned around here, but haven't been to his place before. I think I'll take a look around, and see how much else there is there to laugh at.

129 lazytart  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 4:22:47pm

The Other Les,

Why does that picture remind me of this one??

130 monkeyweather  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 4:22:57pm

Whew - those guys are great comic relief - the madder they get and the more they spew, the funnier it is!
I like it when they try and use big words ~

131 Bill Arnold  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 4:28:11pm

Cathy, re "So which is more likely, a republican operative with ESP or a democratic operative without ESP who is also stupid.", that was almost convincing. But you neglected the stupid republican operative theory, or the smart non-ESP operative (democratic or republican) who was willing to take the risk that CBS would be fooled (and/or was stupid) and knew that the blogosphere was fanatical and smart.

Smart republican with ESP - Not possible (no such thing as ESP of this sort at least)
Dumb republican with ESP - Not possible
Smart democrat with ESP - Not possible
Dumb democrat with ESP - Not possible
Smart republican without ESP - Possible if they don't care whether they succeed or not
Dumb republican without ESP - Possible
Smart democrat without ESP - Possible if they don't care if they succeed or not
Dumb democrat without ESP - Possible

Ugh. :-)

132 mad_scientist  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 4:31:49pm

Sorry to post this on this thread, but I got no answer on the other one. I was looking for a link to the beheading video......if anyone has it please let me know.

The link to it on Michael Savage's page isnt working....

133 phil  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 4:40:10pm

The fact that OW is considered an a-list blogger is proof of the slim-pickings in the lefty blogosphere.

OW calling Hugh Hewitt a hack? That's rich.

134 Darleen  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 4:58:07pm

Is that REALLY a picture of OW at the upper right hand corner????

Um.... what was that on one of the other Moonbat sites that LGFers live in their mom's basement and have no sex life???

Bet OW started that meme... classic projection.

135 Paul  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 4:58:27pm

#132 mad

Try Kos or the DU, they seem to enjoy that sort of thing.

136 glwing  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 5:00:04pm

#1 addison

This plays into that larger theme of the Democrat Party that nothing that befalls them is ever their fault. Someone else, a Republican thug, is always the culprit.

Not only what befalls them. A mass murderer is not a fault because he was abused as a child...and on and on. But when a child has their Bush campaign poster torn up by a thug,
then what does the LLL say? "It's the father's fault for taking her there.''

The LLL has an interesting double standard.

137 Doss  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 5:01:43pm

#133 Phil

The fact that OW is considered an a-list blogger is proof of the slim-pickings in the lefty blogosphere.


Instapundit has linked OW a number of times also. I can't understand why.

138 Paul  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 5:08:45pm

Speaking of the DU, they have a thread discussing the pros and cons of destroying Bush campaign signs and posters. No consensus yet, but they're leaning towards vandalizing "hate" signs put up by "sheeple", apparently the DUmmies think anything pro-Bush qualifies as "hate" speech.

Sorry, but I refuse to link to the DU.

139 Glen Wishard  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 5:12:42pm

Charles:

what Willis linked to is a parody of the Nazi-smear quiz, a parody that's very much on my side.

What is up with the Disloyal Opposition lately?

First Daily Kos claims to have found Ramirez on a Republican website - except that the "Republican website" belongs to a Texas Democrat congressman.

And Atrios, with his usual degree of primate cunning, is punishing those unreliable people at ABC News by probing them for far-right connections - and no, he didn't suddenly develop a sense of humor, he's serious.

140 lazytart  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 5:17:03pm

Paul,

I hope they come to our yard.

We just put out our brand new, 4X6' Bush Cheney banner.

My husband needs some target practice.

141 Dizzy26  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 5:19:59pm

Hope all is well

#129 Lazytart

any developements?

Diz

142 Lewis  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 5:26:55pm

Smirky's title bar: Like Kryptonite to Stupid a non sequitor

So THAT'S where I've heard of this guy before - people making fun of his nonsensical title bar. Heh.

143 maryatexitzero  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 5:33:07pm

hmm...I go out to see Sky Captain and find out that Oliver is linking to my "Nazi or Blogger" post. (The comments were closed due to a major spam problem, but they should be fixed now..)

When he discovers his mistake, I"m sure that this will be more evidence of the vast neocon/VRWC conspiracy, plotted by well-financed partisan political operatives.

It might help some Dems to abandon the conspiracy theories and brush up on their research skills.

144 Darleen  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 5:39:19pm

#142 Lewis

I'd be interested in knowing when Smirky started using that phrase... It's a rip-off of a Larry Elder "The Sage from South Central", riff "a fact to an emotional liberal is like kryptonite to Superman"

145 RightIsRight  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 5:40:30pm

"Smirky".... LOL


How about we call him SSS or S3 ?


SmirkySmarmySmegmatic

146 cathyf  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 5:44:25pm
Smart republican with ESP...

Would have planted the docks and sat back and enjoyed the show, between those option trades that make him/her richer than the dreams of avarice


Dumb republican with ESP...

Would have planted the docks and sat back and enjoyed the show, but too dumb to make those option trades...


Smart democrat with ESP...

Would have had access to all of that future analysis in the past and would have created perfectly undetectable forgeries -- between those option trades that make him/her richer than the dreams of avarice!


Dumb democrat with ESP...

Would have known that W would get a boost, so would never have done it. (Too stupid to take advantage of the blogger analysis to create perfect forgeries.)


Smart republican without ESP - Possible if they don't care whether they succeed or not

But we're talking about a "republican operative" here (Karl Rove being the usual accused) By definition a "republican operative" is person who does care about success or failure, and in this case success is mildly negative for W while failure is catastrophically negative for W.


Dumb republican without ESP - Possible

Too dumb to appreciate the possibility of terribly negative memos about W having a negative effect on Kerry


Smart democrat without ESP - Possible if they don't care if they succeed or not

See earlier comment -- an "operative" is by definition someone who cares very much. More importantly, the smart dem op is smart enough to create really good forgeries

Dumb democrat without ESP - Possible

The only person who is likely to want memos out there saying the things that the CBS forgeries say, who is at the same time dumb enough to cock up the job of actually producing the forgeries.

The point is simple... No supporter of W would ever want memos out there that said those things, whether obvious forgeries or not. There is too much risk that the forgeries would go undetected, and even if you were certain that they would be detected you would make them less negative. Because you would expect to happen exactly what has happened -- that there are millions of American voters who have not gotten the message that the memos have been discredited. Quite a bit of CBS's mud has stuck to W.

cathy :-)

147 dgd  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 5:52:35pm

So I guess that resume in the update makes Rodger Stone a mainstream Democrat.

148 rastajenk  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 6:52:12pm

#78 Erik says, "That is the same defense the Kerryites were spouting last week: If these were forgeries, they would look better. The fact that they look like forgeries proves they are real!

I actually had people make that argument to me."

It reminded me that when I first started becoming aware of the blog world a couple years ago, there was an episode, a Bush speech or something, that had someone, Josh Marshall I think, going round and around with the fact that since Bush actually articulated a particular point, that it must mean he's really covering something up. How could it possibly mean anything else? If he (Bush) wasn't trying to lie, why would he have said what he said, or some such nonsense.

It was incredible. I've been hooked since.

149 madmark  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 6:54:16pm

Bustin' a cap into Ollie Smirky Willis is a regular feature on my blog. I hope Charles keeps it up, as it is more fun when more that just me, Ace of Spades, and Protein Wisdom are doing the smackdowns.

150 The Lone Platypus  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 7:42:07pm

#137 Doss:

Instapundit has linked OW a number of times also. I can't understand why.

It's logrolling in the classic sense (no, I didn't leave off the "b".) Glenn Reynolds links to friends of Glenn Reynolds.

151 The Lone Platypus  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 7:56:35pm

#114 RoLev:

Why does the DNC's logo consist of a donkey diving head first off of a cliff?

LOL. I believe it's supposed to be "kicking ass."

Or a kicking ass.

152 dy/dx  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 10:25:39pm

#132 Mad Scientest

Try Dennis Prager's webpage sometime soon.

On his show today he mulled over whether he should provide a link to the video.

Pros:
1) people wouldn't become jaded at this sort of thing
2) people can see an embodiement of evil

Cons:
1) it would drive the traffic up on the islamic site that has the video, and thus be a tacit form of encouragement, however slight (up until he mentioned this I couldn't see his ambivalency)

He watched the video for the first time during the show, and was obviously pained by what he saw. You could hear the water welling in his eyes. He actually thought of capturing the video and then having it on his site, thus diverting the traffic.

He really didn't give a rip about violating any copy protection....pretty funny (and morbid) if you think about it.

I just checked the site now, and couldn't find any link.

I have yet to see the video....It'll weigh too heavily on my heart and soul right now and keep me under a grey cloud for days. Hope you're up to it.

dy/dx

153 RayH  Tue, Sep 21, 2004 11:09:49pm

Wow, just read Smirkey's test. This may have been commented on already (haven't read the thread as I'm at work), but he's definately not the brightest bulb in the blogoshphere. He's just making Charles look good.

154 billib  Wed, Sep 22, 2004 2:29:19am

Charles You said: The Republican party spit this guy out long ago.

No surprise. The Republican party is known for creating some of the worst pollution and then spitting it out on the rest of the world.

155 jlar  Wed, Sep 22, 2004 5:11:14am

Personally I think it really doesn't matter, if a Republican or joe shmo down the street gave the memo to CBS. It was CBSs responsibility to check it. When political desire gets in the way of fact checking, something is wrong. And I know Rather would have told everyone if a Republican operative had given him the document, so it had to atleast filtered through the hands of several Democrats, all of which obviously had this own zeal in mind.

156 bigfella  Wed, Sep 22, 2004 5:55:17am

dim"whit"ocrats...

157 RayA  Wed, Sep 22, 2004 6:03:15am

It happens all the time when someone is a conservative, doesn’t matter what stock they are from, if they are not 'black' and tend to vote republican, they usually have some membership in the KKK... And if they ARE black, then they are usually “house-slaves”.

I have seen accented middle-easterners and Cubans accused of having some KKK affiliation in polysci and debate classes. This usually throws the white people off track and they get flustered in debates. I on the other hand, being an immigrant, don’t give a flying rat’s ass.

158 Gordon  Wed, Sep 22, 2004 6:22:37am

Charles, if this is a desperate spin/lie by the Democrats, then why do you go on to waste bandwidth telling us all about Roger Stone?

"I know he didn't do it, but if he did, I'll discredit him anyway."

Is that what you were thinking?

159 bender  Wed, Sep 22, 2004 6:28:14am

Charles - Oliver may be a freak - but his polls are intensly hilarious.

Check out the one that was up when I went to the link:

Poll
Who Wins In A Bar Fight?

Barbara / Jenna Bush
44%

Alexandra / Vanessa Kerry
56%

That is good comedy ;)

160 Bill Arnold  Wed, Sep 22, 2004 7:02:28am

Cathy, this is rapidly devolving into a Princess Bride style argument. :-) And we've been playing a little loose with the term "smart".

First, the downside is primarily that it might get tracked back to political operatives firmly in the dem or rep campaigns. There's an ancient tradition of throwing mud and seeing what sticks, so if CBS noticed a forgery, no problem except for lost time and the possibility of it getting tracked back to the campaign.

The part that's not convincing to me is this:
"The point is simple... No supporter of W would ever want memos out there that said those things, whether obvious forgeries or not. There is too much risk that the forgeries would go undetected, and even if you were certain that they would be detected you would make them less negative."

I just don't see this as clearly. The forgery job on the memos is clear enough that there was a 100% chance of detection (particularly with a backup plan to make sure people discover it's a forgery). So *if* it was a rep operation, the rep upside is discrediting (by association) of all the Nat Guard stories, and the rep downsides are the risk of getting caught and the smear residue from the forged memos, which would be overbalanced by far by the doubts attached to the entire Nat Guard story.

If it was a dem operation, it's admitedly a clearer plot, but the ineptness of the forgery makes the dem plot theory less convincing since the contents of the forgery are far less inept.

-Bill Arnold (a dem, genuinely puzzled by this.)

161 RayA  Wed, Sep 22, 2004 7:12:48am

#160 Bill Arnold

I agree with you on the point that there is probably no real connection with any campaign. I think that there are enough people who hate Bush, or might profit from Hating him that it would not need a Dem involvement to do it.

I think that I have had enough of reading about this subject anyway and its coming to the point of being a wasted time for Kerry and a lull from attacks for Bush and that is probably the ONLY reason why the Republicans are pursuing it.

Many of us here are passionate ideologues who forget that these people are politicians first and maybe ideologues second.

When it comes to scandals, the Dems have lost their touch since luring Nixon into the whole Watergate thing... it’s a shame really, I would expect something better than forged documents from the Weasel party LOL

162 agitate  Wed, Sep 22, 2004 7:47:46am

ROFL
Smirky is perfect!

Speaking of hate mongers, wasn't it mr. willis who made a comment on his blog that "something had to be done about" Americans who believe in God?
If I recall, he didn't sound to tolerant.

Does anyone remember or have a link?

163 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 22, 2004 9:55:51am

A commenter on the Smirking Blob's site writes:

It's good to know that one of the most high profile voices for the war, Bush, and the GOP is unabashedly desacrating [sic] one of the worlds [sic] great religions (!). Personally I think the lefty blogs should link to them as much as possible, so that everyone can see what compassionate conservatism really looks like.

As opposed to compassionate Islamism, right, jackass?

Calling Islam one of the "world's great religions" as a defense against an article describing yet another beheading by the [bigoted word]s is like finding your friend poisoned by arsenic and saying, "Yes, but arsenic is one of the world's great chemicals."

164 steve miller  Wed, Sep 22, 2004 7:19:32pm

Dear genuinely puzzled:

Don't think of it as a democrat plot. Think of it as a bunch of people who were so eager to bring down a sitting president AND WHO WERE DREAMING OF A PULITZER.


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