And yet, it will seem like partisian politics if it is investigated...

Could someone translate this in to Martian so I can send it to Kucinich.

If only some of you idiots had been half as concerned about the fraudulant documents that W. used to get us into Iraq.

A forged document showing that W. was AWOL? Oh, that's downright treasonous. Forged documents convincing people to support a war they might have otherwise opposed? Par for the course.

Nice work, boys. You are directly responsible for the deaths of 1,000+ Americans.

Congrats.

OT: But when Frank is right, he's very right:

Nothing but the best for my dog.

I'm at peace with Frank again.

On topic:
That's a great letter. But remember LGFers, don't just send an exact duplicate of the letter. Use your own words and ideas also.

#3

What forged documents?

This was my letter.

#3 Dave J.

Got any examples? Once again, a leftist drone plans on screwing up a thread with unsubstantiated crap. Do leftists know how to use the link function ^^^?

Now now people, let's all remember that he was "misled", Dan Rather is real victim here.

#3 FOAD. At least try to be creative in your trolling. You're just boring.

To the rational folks: [Link: www.house.gov...] and [Link: www.senate.gov...] to contact your reps via e-mail. It'll also give you phone numbers and snail mail addresses.

I wonder if Congressional hearings might have the effect of causing the MSM to circle the wagons, screaming, "First Amendment!" At least right now, CBS' rivals are interested in seeing them lose market share and credibility and so continue to keep the story going.

Good letter, web1110. The president of CBS, Rather, Mapes, and others deserve jail time.

Dave J: try to keep up. If you're referring to the "yellowcake/Niger" documents, they were forged by France.

Yo Dave J
Think ya got room in that big mouth of yours for both my nuts?

Dave J.,

You have an audience. Heres your big chance. Don't hide righteously trembling with glee. Spit it out son. Be specific. What are you atlking about ?

Dave J.

You have your talking point lines that goes into your letter to the editor.

But on LGF you will be challenged. If you want to criticize the President, you'll have to do better then this.

And would the world be better if Saddam was still in power?

fraudulant documents that W. used to get us into Iraq.

Right, some of those documents were forged as well. So let's get to the bottom of that fraud and punish the perpetrator, which happens to be France.

Great idea! Which Senator should I send this to?

EMK of JFK?

How about my Congressman, Marty Meehan. You may recall he's the POS who minutes after the world trade center massacre was more concerned about taking a partisian cheap shot at the president.

I think I'll change my name to Disenfranchised in MA.

And #3- Rot in hell you communist bastard.

#3 Yo Yo Dave J,

No war at all costs, right?

Hanoi Jane, Paris John & Mikhael Moore are mighty proud of you.

Do you like Birkas?

It appears Dave J. has run home to mommy afraid of all you bullies.

Dave J., you're an ass.

Excellent letter. Well done.

Does anybody know if it effective if everyone sends the same letter to congresspeople? Do they read them or just toss them in the trash?

Y'all seem mighty vitriolic today. Must be your guilt over being directly responsible for the deaths of so many in the armed forces. Might also been your guilt over supporting the president as he saps the readiness of our military. Might also be due to your shame over watching national guard units from across the country fail to meet their enlistment goals. Might also be your shame at supporting a man who knowingly shirked his own national guard duty and failed to follow a direct order. Heck, even the Air Force Times admits that last one is true.

Ignore Dave J., folks -- he's trying to derail the discussion. This is a very common troll tactic.

Who's starting the letter writing campaign to President Bush after he led us into war in Iraq on the basis of forged Niger documents?

THIS forgery is somehow the greater threat to the United States, as opposed to the forgery the President relied on for those infamous 16 words, leading the country to war?

Are our priorites straight here?

Dave J thinks the Air Force Times has some association with the US Air Force.

Dave J. thinks we're stupid.

This site may also be helpful to people:

[Link: www.webslingerz.com...]

ShaNYC: to repeat what I just wrote to Dave J., although you'll probably just ignore it like he did, try to keep up. If you're referring to the "yellowcake/Niger" documents, they were forged by France.

Dave J. ,

One item at a time son. First answer the responses to your first post. But before you do, heres an article that you need to read.

Come on now son, be specific.

Also useful:

[Link: www.visi.com...]

While your at it you might want to contact the Department of Justice as well. After LGF broke the story I immediately called my congressman and the DOJ.

This will not stand. This is the worst possible crime against the government of the people. Because it strikes at the very core of our freedom. The ability to elect the ones who represent us.

As for you Dave. J. #20. Go to hell.

#3 #20 Yo yo yo Dave J(aques Cherac)

No deaths ever!

No war ever!

No victories ever!

Total submission!

p.s. Don't tell us how to stand up to Theocratic Fascists

Ignore Dave J., folks -- he's trying to derail the discussion. This is a very common troll tactic.

Agreed. We all know the truth since most of us have been spending a large amount of time on LGF lately. Good lord, how many threads have we seen the truth behind Bush's Guard service posted? Just yesterday his yearly points were given 2 or 3 different times.

Here are my (s)elected representatives
in Rhode Island:

Rep. Jim Langevin (D)
Rep. Patrick Kennedy (D)
Sen. Jack Reed (D)
Sen. Lincoln Chafee (RINO)

I'll send the letter to all of them, but I don't expect much from this pack of raving socialists.

Chafee is about one hit of acid away from switching parties. He says he's not voting for W, but instead will vote for a write-in candidate. (Hillary? Ted Kennedy? Algore? Fidel Castro?)

The Ds usually win this state, I think the last Republican to win it was Reagan in 1984.

I'm in enemy territory here. I won't put a Bush/Cheney sticker on my car, for fear it will be vandalized.

Rhode Island sucks.

Funny how you now all admit those Niger documents were forged. And also funny how in that case it's the identity of the forger that matters, not the fact that the President didn't bother to authenticate them before rushing them into his rationale for war. Also funny how most of you supported those documents at the time.

And, Geepers, yes, I do think you're stupid.

Complete list of email addresses, very useful

And, Geepers, yes, I do think you're stupid.

That's freakin' rich.

#20 Troll

Y'all seem mighty vitriolic today.

And you seem mighty full today. As in full of sh*t.

Must be your guilt over being directly responsible for the deaths of so many in the armed forces.

Would this be the same guilt that the Dems felt none of when we went to war in Bosnia and Kosovo, neither time with UN approval or help?

Might also been your guilt over supporting the president as he saps the readiness of our military.

Which Clinton spent 8 years gutting and Kerry intends to pick up where he left off.

Might also be due to your shame over watching national guard units from across the country fail to meet their enlistment goals.

Might be because alot of those people are going into the Army and other active military branches, volunteering to fight overseas.

Might also be your shame at supporting a man who knowingly shirked his own national guard duty and failed to follow a direct order.

Even if true, compare these to his opponent, who has not only lied for 35 years about his own record, but filed bogus paperwork for his medals, used those medals to return home after only 4 months in Vietnam, went before Congress and lied about witnessing "atrocities" and "war crimes" that were sanctioned by the US military chain of command, and has spent this entire election year calling anyone who doesn't call him a "war hero" a liar and a partisan attack dog.

OT but Muslim groups want Canadian Campuses to become dry

[Link: www.gateway.ualberta.ca...]

I live in New York, my senator is Hillary. Don't think email will get results there...

And, Geepers, yes, I do think you're stupid.

Actually my mom says I'm "special"

Not entirely off-topic, since it *was* CBS that "broke" the story of the non-existent Israeli spy ring in the Pentagon. After writing to your people in Congress about the memos, give the following a look:

[FBI] Official heading AIPAC probe linked to [CIA] anti-Semitism case
[Link: www.jta.org...]

Here's a taste:

Ciralsky's problems began as soon as he joined the CIA's legal staff as a junior member in early December 1996. Within days, CIA security personnel began creating a special file on Ciralsky and his Jewish background, according to the documents.

One Dec. 19, 1996, internal CIA memo on Ciralsky indicated that a CIA supervisor "would like to keep current on developments for damage control purposes."

By Jan. 15, 1997, the agency had created a four-page annotated "Jewish resume" of Ciralsky, which was classified "secret." The resume listed Ciralsky's teenage trips to Israel in 1987 with the Milwaukee federation and for Passover in 1988, his camp counselor stint at the Milwaukee JCC's day camp, and his minor in Judaic studies at George Washington University. His major in international affairs was not mentioned.

Shortly thereafter, CIA security personnel were asking whether Ciralsky's nephew might be working with the Israeli government, according to documents; the nephew was only about five months old at the time.

#21 Charles

You're right. I'm sorry. I just had this brief notion that the squawking moonbats might grasp at a chance to act as rational adults and make sense. My bad. I don't know what got into me.

Dave J.,
Take a walk son. Email ShaNYC, maybe you two can hook up and comtemplate each others armpit hair.

not the fact that the President didn't bother to authenticate them before rushing them into his rationale for war.

Evidently, the CIA, British Intelligence, the UN, the Senate, and Congress also failed to authenticate.

to Dave J

actually the death toll in the war on terror is closer to 4000...u moron...perhaps you would like to meet at the roy rodgers in breezewood, pa this afternoon so we can discuss the matter in person...awaiting your response

Charles: I never said they were forged by the President himself. The fact is, it was used by our President as a basis to go to war. Excuse me if I find that a tad more detrimental to our democracy than some washed up news anchor hoping the President f'ed up thirty years ago. Maybe it's just me.

There are similarities between the two forgeries. Both Rather and the President really really wanted them to be true. They both defended indefensible positions once the underlying sources were proven to be false.

The key difference: We went to war on the basis of one forgery. CBS News ratings went down on the basis of another.

#32 Dave J

Joseph Wilson of leftist Plame fame was responsible for authenticating those documents. He failed. GWB depends on turncoats in lesser positions. That's one of the biggest problems every president has, underlings with partisan agendas like Wilson and Clarke.

#3

Ok, I'll blame you and your terrorist-enabling lefty pals for 9-11 then, you're still ahead of us by around 2000 deaths.

Sorry to repost, but this is a VERY good site for email addresses...

Would this be the same guilt that the Dems felt none of when we went to war in Bosnia and Kosovo, neither time with UN approval or help?

I dunno. Remind me of how many lives we lost in that one?

Yeah well Locutus..

I would send it to my Senator, but that would be JFinKerry

and my other choice?

Ted Kennedy..

Which leaves me with

James Mcgovern...

Yeah, I might get more response form Jacque Chirac

Austin

From Lucy Ramirez' diary:

I feel so bad about all this I won't answer the phone or the door and would like to crawl into a hole and hide until it all goes away. Poor Mr. Burkett he is a kind and decent man and helped me alot when I was in an abusive relationship but he hates President Bush so much I think it effects his judgment. One night he kept saying Bush was on his knees to Hallie Berry until I figured out Mr. Burkett had been drinking and was slurring his words and meant Halliburton. He wrote up those memos on yellow legal pads and told me these were exactly what was thrown away to protect Bush when he ran for Texas governor the first time. What we're doing, said Mr Burkett, is historical reproduction, Lucy, a historical reproduction. And when I finished typing he took them and said now you gave these to me, didn't you, Lucy? No one will ever know so don't worry, don't worry at all.

actually the death toll in the war on terror is closer to 4000...u moron...perhaps you would like to meet at the roy rodgers in breezewood, pa this afternoon so we can discuss the matter in person...awaiting your response

Ok, I'll see you there. I will be dressed as a large biker who pretends not to understand why you are yelling at him. But by all means, keep yelling, because that is the only way you will get my attention.

#43 ShanNYC

Joseph Wilson, now in deep denial as he travels the leftist BDS speaking circuit, said the docuements were legitimate when he was sent to research the yellowcake scandal. He's lying now about his conclusions, but the mainstream media cannot be bothered as they explore 'underlying truths' based on proven lies.

Do you people read anything but Kos, Kerry's speeches, or DNC press releases?

Is there a similar form letter going around about the smears perpetrated by the Swift Boat Shills (and their internet camp followers - hello, Charles)?

I read someplace that a fax or paper letter has much more impact than an email. Senate addresses here and Congress addresses here. And here's a list of links to U.S. Federal gov't agencies where you can get agency addresses.

Federal Election Commission
999 E Street, NW
Washington, DC 20463
(800) 424-9530 (warning: voice mail hell)
fax: (202) 219-0174

I get the impression that the FEC is mostly concerened with election paperwork and campaign finance enforcement. Does anybody have suggestions for what agency to send complaints and requests for investigation?

The idiots are out in force today and I have no patience for their drivel. Y'all have a good lunch and watch for all those tricky moving goal posts.

#43 ShanNYC

We went to war based on the world's consensus that Saddam had WMDs. Please read UNSC Resolution 1441 and then stop with the nonsense.

thanks for the email addresses and the letter!

OT - why is dan rather still saying that these documents weren't forged?? from the chicago tribune

In an interview Monday evening, a repentant Rather conceded it had been a mistake to broadcast the documents. But even though he could not vouch for their authenticity, he said he still did not believe that they were fakes.

"Do I think they're forged? No," Rather said. "But it's not good enough to use the documents on the air if we can't vouch for them, and we can't vouch for them."

Rather said he had no regrets for his defense of the story.

"I believed in it," he said. "I wouldn't have put it on the air if I hadn't of believed in it. And what kind of reporter would I be if I put something on the air in which I believed, and as soon as it's attacked and under pressure, you run, you fold, you fade, you side-wind? That's not the kind of person I am, and it's not the kind of reporter I am."

ShaNYC: sorry, but your ignorance of the facts is showing, badly. Please read the Butler report before repeating any more leftist talking points. There was much more to the Niger uranium story than the forged French documents.

#53

Be specific. What have the 264 SBVT said that is false?

#47 Troll

I dunno. Remind me of how many lives we lost in that one?

You mean up to now? We still have troops in Kosovo, years after Clinton sent the first ones there. When can we expect Slick Willy to order those troops home?

Charles,

There are three proven trolls in this thread now. They never respond to factual argumentation. What's the point of allowing them to continue unless they respond to factual debate?

Everyone knows the Kerry campaign was forced to admit the truth of several Swift Vet allegations. Everyone but our resident troll, nodroG, and other chronic BDS sufferers. Please, euthanize them for their own good.

OT:

If ever you needed a way to distinguish the different characteristics of liberals and conservatives, all you need to do is look at this column by Nick Kristof:

Washing Away the Mud

Here's the relevant quote:

If they're intellectually consistent, Democrats will speak out not only against the Swift Boat Veterans but also against Mr. Kerry's demagoguery on trade, like his suggestion that outsourcing is the result of Mr. Bush's economic policies. Trade demagoguery may not be as felonious as an assault on a war hero's character, but it harms America by undermining support for free trade.

I'm afraid that the dishonesty of politics has infected all of us if we're so partisan that we're willing to point out only the sins of the other side. Intellectual consistency requires a tough look first at one's own shortcomings. So Republicans should be denouncing the smear against Mr. Kerry's war record, and Democrats should be denouncing their candidate's protectionist tone on trade.

I just can't imagine a conservative pundit imploring other conservatives to "look first at one's own shortcomings." Democrats and liberals worry about things like intellectual consistency and being careful to point out that there are two sides of every argument. Conservatives want to win.

Ahh Good ole Gordon..

Who claims there are lies in the Swift Boat book yet refuses to read it.

The MSM media does not discuss the issues in the book just the names of the men behind it. You want to know why?

Because it's fact...No changing the subject ..

To quote Stephen the Irishman from Braveheart.

"The Almighty says don't change the subject, just answer the fucking question."

Goes out to Dave GorTroll and the DNC

Austin

I know I shouldnt reply to trolls, but they bring out the deepest sense of pity from me.

Come on now, people. Don't feed (talk to) the trolls. It just encourages them. Talk about them, even joke about them, but don't address them directly. Evil loves to be engaged, and unfortunately must be when life is on the line. In forums like this, however, there can be little gained from exchanges with them. One thing that evil hates, though, is being ignored and ridiculed.

I admit to being tempted into it a few times, but one doesn't argue with mosquitoes, one swats them, and that's Charles' prerogative.

Wow, three trolls -- one thread. Curious why this particular thread is the flypaper thread.

to dave j

the only harley that will be there is the one i'll be riding...and the only large biker that will be there is one that is riding a like punk you...and i'm not yelling...a moron like you isn't worth the energy it would take to turn on the cap lock...the invitation for a discussion in person is still open

Again, folks -- Dave J. is very obviously trying to steer the discussion away from writing letters to your representatives. The prospect of several thousand LGF readers doing something like this has scared him badly.

Any effort spent "debating" people like this is 100% wasted. The goalposts will just keep moving no matter what you say.

Beagle:

You're missing the point.
"The Buck Stops Here"

Instead of blaming everyone but the kitchen sink, why can't you look to our President and ask why?

Our President led the country into war based on forgeries, then changed the rationale for the war after said forgeries (perpetrated by the French, authenticated by Joseph Wilson, as they apparently were) were found.

My question, and it's a simple one:

Which the greater threat to democracy? A forgery that leads our country to war or a forgery that embarasses the news division of a broadcast network?

By the way, do you read anything other than the National Review, Weekly Standard and michellemalkin.com?

Dave J.

Your 'touching' reference to the lost in Iraq, reminds me of the cowardice you and your ilk have such as this;

Decorated Soldier Reportedly Attacked At Concert

NBC

I've highlighted my nic so you can send me an email. I'm sure such a brave 'patriotic' person such as you, would no doubt be so 'bold' to leave me your address, correct 'braveheart'? I mean you are so macho, surely you can FACE someone who will beat your ass to a pulp, right"?

To LGF people, we have a star, in our midst...:).

Network of 'The Reagans' Names Reaganite to Investigate It

NewsMax

Now appearing at aile #3 is Dave J., an prime example of the Puffed Up Pneumatic Shitbird. He is easily identified by his unique sound, accomplished by sticking a whistle up his ass and playing "Mr. Hollands Opus" while mantaining tempo and pressure by flapping his left wing. While most common in Massachusettes, examples of the Pneumatic Shitbird can be found on the faculties of most any university.

#70 gymnast

Remarkable bird, the Pneumatic Sh*tbird, idn'it, ay? Beautiful plumage!

ShaNYC: I see you decided not to take my advice.

Again, folks -- Dave J. is very obviously trying to steer the discussion away from writing letters to your representatives. The prospect of several thousand LGF readers doing something like this has scared him badly.

Uh, yeah. I am scared. That's it. Very scared at the prospect of a bunch of keyboard warriors emerging from Mom's basement for long enough to drop a letter into the postbox.

And, p.s., the documents were forged by the Italians, not the French.

Here is a free online faxing service

[Link: www.tpc.int...]

It will fax whatever you paste in the box

FreeRepublic recommends you fax in addition to email, if possible, because filters often delay receipt of email by representatives.

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

#70 gymnast

LOL! The PUPSB is a particularly foul fowl. It is tasteless, be it broiled, boiled, baked, fried, or stewed. Liberal seasoning does not help.

#68 ShanNYC

Have you read 1441 yet?

There's merit in pursuing this as a federal case, but the place to start might be with the states, especially NY and TX, as the presidential election is not a national one, but 50+ local ones.

Taking that into consideration, if the forgery were physically done in TX, what grounds do I, as the resident of another state, have to demand justice? Is it the fact that the forgery was intended to influence voters in my state?

One reason I'm looking in this direction is because any involvement of the justice department or Congress before the elections are compromised by conflicts of interest.

No doubt Ashcroft knows his position will be filled by someone else if Kerry is elected. While I may be sure that he would approach this issue with impartiality, I can't blame the other side for doubting it.

As for Congress, those up for election this year face the same problem because of the 'coat tail' factor.

Thanks for the easy link to do this with. May I suggest that in the future you may want to consider the size of the letter. Some of these outfits limit the number of characters you can send to them, so a shorter letter (which would also be more likely to be read) is something you might want to consider.

#68 ShanNYC

There already has been a congressional inquiry about the 'intelligence failure'. Time to have one about the Rather morality disfuction.

Dave J(acques) Cherac is indeed afraid of this thread's call to action.

Write, email & visit your congressman.

Write, email & visit your local CBS affiliate.

A campaign here in liberal Cleveland OHIO has CBS affiliate WOIO's station mannager calling for Rather's resignation.

Editorial not yet posted but aired last evening (minutes before the Blathershpere embarked).

[Link: www.woio.com...]

Yes, OHIO...we're doing our fair share...c'mon Jersey & PA...how about CA?

Dave J.

All that I can say is that mistakes were made.

Kind of like that time your dad didn't use a condom, and made you.

unfortunately, my representative, mr. marty meehan, and my senators, kennedy and kerry, areunlikely to respond favorably to any such letters...
meehan is unopposed at this point, so i might as well send a note to santa claus... i'd have a better chance of response!

'Keey your friends close, but your enemies closer'...

"Better to have him inside the tent pissing out, than outside pissing in." (Lynden B. Johnson, of J. Edgar Hoover)

Dave J

In the United States, 42,643 people died in traffic crashes in 2003. You better stop driving your car and enlist in the Marines. You'll be safer.

#68 ShanNYC

WTF are you talking about? Why don't you respond to argumentation? BBP's post is a perfect example of leftist self-righteousnes stupidity. You can't argue facts, so you change the subject to ground you feel familiar on, feelings and insults. Grow up and deal with reality.
1) Joe Wilson is lying now. He believed the documents and reported such. Read the 9/11 Commission reports.
2) Bush only went with his intelligence estimates. Every other nation, and President Clinton, believed Saddam war pursuing nukes.
3) The upcoming WMD report will show Saddam continued to keep WMD programs in nascent form.

I give up arguing against you self-righteous idiots.

GAZE, from here to eternity.

#83, sgt tom. Have you cinsidered moving back to the States?

What is a "postbox"?

Taking that into consideration, if the forgery were physically done in TX, what grounds do I, as the resident of another state, have to demand justice? Is it the fact that the forgery was intended to influence voters in my state?

Hint: Since the Stones live in Florida, it wouldn't make sense to focus on Texas.

#87. Err, considered?

Dave J: Blah blah blah, you are responsible...blah blah blah

LGF: France forged the info you were talking about. World consensus was that Saddam had WMD's. Here's some proof.

Dave J: I am changing the topic...Blah blah blah. I just want attention cause my Mommy didn't love me enough.

Bah. Stoopid trolls

People like Dave J. are as inconsequential as they are lacking conviction.

Want to recognize someone truly worthy of attention?

Witness Sally:

Iraqi Translator's Service Comes at High Cost

ANBAR PROVINCE, Iraq, Sept. 22, 2004 -- Sally's children were taken away from her more than six months ago. Her husband beat her. Her brother threatened her life while holding a gun to her head. Her own father contracted her death with a $5,000 reward.

"I lost everything I have, but I have gained so much," Sally said. "If I had to do it over again I would. I help the Americans, help my people."

Read her story it's frightening.

The day she graduated from her Catholic school, her father told her something that would change her life. "I was 13 years old," Sally said. "I will never forget this. … He sits beside me and says, 'Honey, you must marry.'" Three days later, she was married to her fathers' friend, 27 years her senior. "He wasn't mean at first, and he wasn't nice," she said. "He looked like my father."

She gave birth to her first son at 14 and continued studying engineering in Baghdad.

"My neighbors found out that I was helping the Americans, and they beat my children," she said. "They threw rocks at my daughter and broke both arms on my son. They told me to watch out or I will be killed."

It wasn't just her neighbors who harbored hatred for Sally's assistance to the coalition. Her family was infuriated.

"When my family came home from Turkey and found out, they told me that I would be killed," she said. "They called me horrible names like 'bitch' and 'whore.' My brother put a pistol to my head and threatened to kill me."

"While I was at work, my brother found my husband and told him that I will kill your wife if I find out she is working with the coalition forces,"

Her husband became enraged. He flew into a tirade.
"He messed up my face and body," she said.

"I was sitting there in the parking lot and I saw him walking up to me," she said. "I was relieved. I thought he was going to apologize. He told me to unroll the window."

When she did, he picked up a nearby rock and repeatedly hit her face. She awoke in a hospital two days later. An Army captain arrested her husband, but she insisted on finding him.

"After 15 minutes of getting out the jail, he beat me up and put me in his car and took me to the apartment and locked me in the bathroom for three to four days with no food," Sally said. "I begged for water. He said 'No, I am ashamed of you. You are an interpreter, that's why I divorced you.'"

She escaped only because of her oldest son.

"My older son, who is 13, opened the bathroom door and said, 'Mom you need to run away,'" she recalled. "You cannot stay here. They will kill you. Mom, they will kill you!"

"He pushed me out the door and I ran," she said. "I don't know where, but I ran."

She left with nothing but the clothes she was wearing, a picture of her kids and a stuffed tiger her son slept with at night. It was the last time she saw her children.

She returned to work with coalition forces.

Master Sgt. Tim D. Curl remembers seeing her in the chow hall days after escaping.

"She was directed by her command to seek medical attention for her wounds," Curl said. "But instead, she went to the chow hall. She got up to get something and all of a sudden she collapsed. The place when completely silent."

She spent three weeks recovering in a hospital.

It goes on and on. It's harrowing.

Her commitment has earned praises from Marines.

Nuff' said.

It's for people like Sally that men like our Soldiers are willing to free and protect Dave J. Too bad you think their sacrifice is unworthy.

Oh, and Dave J. Peace .

Folks, ignore Dave J. Half truths work well for the LLL.
His statements are 'boilerplate' MoveOn. Don't reduce
LGF to such a propaganda vehicle. Stay on course.
Continue making making the blogoshpere the new media!
You know, MSM is truly in a panic despite their denial.

Al

LGF: France forged the info you were talking about. World consensus was that Saddam had WMD's. Here's some proof.

The Guardian is wrong.

Period.

Now, when the truth finally comes out (as it will be doing, shortly, rest assured), most of you will just conveniently move on.

But, rest assured, it was not the French.

(And I suspect most of you know this already.)

#94 You got PROOF that the Guardian is wrong?

Where is it, buck-o?

Anybody want to go into business with me? I've designed adult-sized Depends with Che Guevara's picture on them!!! A couple of ads on Daily KOS, Smirking Chimp, and the money is just going to roll in!
On-campus representitives can make a fortune! I expect a large spike in demand right around November 1st...

Actually, reading Butler report now. Thanks for the link.

Here, as far as I can tell, are the arguments:

Can I just say, part of the reason this site attracts such a large following is that Charles doesn't feel the need to censor opposing viewpoints, such as they do at DU or Freeper. I hope that is how it will remain.

Idiots such as today's trolls don't have the slightest realization that both John Kerry and John Edwards, both members of the Senate Intelligence Committe, who saw exactly the same intelligence reports as Bush did (well, I guess when Kerry bothered to go to a meeting, anyway) were adamant that Iraq had WMD.
Two-faced democrat quotes here

#94 Dave J.

Have you read 1441? What matters is what the world believed at the time, not what we have come to learn. 20/20 hindsight and all that ...

Master, may we have a fresh assortment of trolls?

This trio are not clever or amusing like some of the others.

Ssss.

Charles:

first

my apoligies for indulging a"troll" (cute name) and wasting time and posting space with a moron...

second

would it not be more efficent to write, email, fax, etc directly to ashcroft at the justice dept requesting an investigation since it would be considered a federal crime because a presidential election is a federal election. despite where or when the documents were created they were being used in an attempt to interfere with a federal election.

Which the greater threat to democracy? A forgery that leads our country to war or a forgery that embarasses the news division of a broadcast network?

I'm not convinced that any forgery led the coalition to war. There were many factors that led to that decision:

The need to end the sanctions because of their toll on civilians and the corruption (Oil for Food scam) they were causing. But an end to sanctions without removing Sadam would allow Sadam to rearm and reactivate his WMD program if he had not already done so (and that was not yet known at the time but was widely feared).

The need to end Sadam's flaunting of UN resolutions which totally negated the ceasefire that ended the First Gulf War. In other words there was no Second Gulf War - there was only a resumption of the First Gulf War after a decade interlude.

US strategic policy in respect of the threat of Islamic terrorism against the US homeland is that the war against terrorism must be fought on the enemy's territory, not ours. That the war is principaly idealogical and consist of initiating and propagating a wave of democratisation and modernisation by any means necessary, including overthrowing non-democratic states by force. This wave of democratisation will be our principal idealogical weapon to counter Islamist extremism.

That as a result of the weakened state of Iraq on account of its years of wars (Iran/Iraq, GW1) and sanctions, and because of its largely secular form of government that Iraq is the most suitable first target for forcible democratisation.

The oil wealth of Iraq means that Iraq is likely to quickly become a self-sufficient and dynamic economy as soon as institutional and free market reforms can be implemented. Iraq will make an excellent model for future Islamic democratic free market states.

The central location of Iraq between Saudi Arabia (the center of Sunni Islam) and Iran (the center of Shia Islam) makes it the ideal staging post from which to spread democratic revolution throughout the Muslim world.

#96 andthenblammo!

Thanks, but I invest in pharmacutical companies. I get the feeling that, come Nov 3^rd, the nation's supplies of anti-depressants are going to take a major hit.

#94 You got PROOF that the Guardian is wrong?

Where is it, buck-o?

Do I? No.

Do others? Yes.

Patience.

#83 Sgt Tom-

#49 Austin from Boston (Worcester if McBig Government is your rep)

As you can seen from my post (#16) we are in the same position.

Sgt Tom did you do any work for Chuck McCarthy last election?

87 gymnast
i'd love to

but i have a job to do

but i am working on a well-considered letter to the local cbs affiliate, as well as to several of their sponsors (walmart is one of them)... i think the reminder that the affiliate's license will come up for renewal, and that this hasn't reflected well on their contribution to the public good should shake a few trees.
and walmart is extremely sensitive about what "middle america" thinks.

#104 Dave J.

Patience? How long does it take to type a 1972 memo in Microsoft Word?

105 endangered
nope. didn't live in same district at that point.
am hoping someone will step forward to oppose meehan though.
i was raised a yellow-dog democrat, but am rapidly developing into a red-dog republican.

107 mr pol
ya'll leave that poor ol' troll alone... his meds have worn off, and he's having an episode

I have two questions for you trolls:

Do you sit in your living rooms jerking off over every American death? Does their sacrafice bring you that much pleasure?

Can you compare 300,000 to 1,000?
300,000 people were dug out of mass graves in Iraq; women, children. Where was your outrage?

1,000 Americans championed the ideals of justice and freedom by serving the colors, and died to prevent that 300,000 from becoming 600,000.

You people are still masturbating over the 300,000 butchered by Saddam, and the soon to be butchered in North Korean concentration camps, and more beheadings by jihadis, and those executed by Castro for daring to think of hope, and ...

Being able to gloat over American dead simply makes the frosting on your sick cake.

FOAD

So Dave J, you advocate just waiting till the terrorist smuggle a WMD across our porous borders? Liberating Iraq is risky but. it if successfull, will provide an enticing alternative to the fundamentalist Muslin terror breeding grounds that flourish in the Arab world. Beginning an upgrade now of those 9th century barbarians to modern humans is our only hope. If we're lucky, in a few generations the Middle East will be civilized. The terrorist know this and will do their best to prevent a free Iraq..
To any sane person , fighting them there and not here is the preferable choice!
The question is will YOU feel guilty by helping Kerry and the currupt euro-pansies thwart this plan and appease the terrorist??

Can I just say, part of the reason this site attracts such a large following is that Charles doesn't feel the need to censor opposing viewpoints, such as they do at DU or Freeper. I hope that is how it will remain.

It's simple really. Make a cogent argument based upon facts and evidence, expect a lively discussion. Wade in here spewing invective and transparent bullshit, expect to be mocked and ignored.

sgt tom

be carefull with the big red dog thing...people will start calling republicans Clifford

#64 RedWhiteAndJew: My definition of "evil" includes dredging up perjured or coached testimony to trash the war record of a Vietnam Veteran. Kerry's medals are valid, according to the testimony of his own men and many others. The specific allegations of perjurers such as Thurlow have been discounted (the record of his own medal, the fact that Kerry didn't author it as originally charged). The only claim of Kerry's found invalid, that he was in Cambodia, can easily be characterized as an honest mistake, since "Welcome to Cambodia" signs don't appear in the Mekong delta, then or now.

YOU, like the rest of the LGF irregulars, have a huge, stinking double standard here.

#109 sgt tom

ya'll leave that poor ol' troll alone... his meds have worn off, and he's having an episode

Sorry, I didn't know that troll was 'special'...

Sgt Tom -

I call Meehan the Vice Senator. On Belvedere in Lowell the street was peppered with single lawn signs that were Kerry Senate/ Meehan Congress.

Kerry evidently has annointed Meehan as the succesor to his Senate seat.

Glad to hear you're on the home team.

Gee folks, thanks for all the comments. Actually, I sent this to LGF last week, but I guess the world wasn't ready.

I'd like to add one thought that I excluded in the letter. I thought it would weigh down my primary point of a felony being committed and overlooked in the frenzy.

The purpose of terrorism isn't to defeat the US. It's purpose is to deflect the perceptions of the American public so that we will migrate into a direction that is advantageous to the terrorists.

This act is identical, only the methods differ. This is an attack perpetrated from within our borders. It's odious intent was to deflect the opinion of the American public into a direction someone, as yet unidentified, wished us to go. It was a blatant attempt to manipulate and usurp our electoral process to their own ends.

I register as an independent, I am conservative. But more than these, I am an American. This attempt to influence our upcoming election cannot be tolerated. It must not be passed over in the finger pointing and righteous indignation flying across the media.

I am. as are we all, victims of this crime. We were all targeted with the intent of being manipulated and used. I do not like this feeling. I want the culprit identified and tried before a jury of peers. I have no desire to rationalize this, negate this or minimize this. I want this issue attacked, resolved and prevented (in as much as possible) from occurring again.

sgt tom

was raised a yellow-dog democrat

That's funny, sgt tom, have a friend who was "raised" the same way. His solution to this islamic problem. 48 hours to stop this bullshit, OR Mecca and Medina are vaporized. And HE has two degrees from Northwestern, talk about an intellect turning into a damn mad dog..damn.

for all those squealing about 1,000 casualties... you need to understand this is war, not a video game and not star trek.
the union army lost 7,000 casualties on a single day at cold harbor.
ww2 pacific island campaigns frequently took 1,000 casualties in an hour.

Dave J.

157,200 American deaths from lung cancer in 2003..

The Ironic thing is that people choose to smoke, They know the risk and choose to smoke anyway.

People also CHOOSE to join the military. They know the risk but choose to join anyway.

Just a little perspective for ya.

#114 Gordon

Are you saying that Kerry, the boat commander couldn't read a map?

Also, it's not just that he wasn't in Cambodia. He wasn't in Cambodia, and he wasn't operating under Nixon's orders (who was not even the President at the time), although it was seared in his mind. This is more than a mistake. It's a lie. Kerry should not be making statements like this on the Senate floor.

endangered in MASS - do what I did when I contacted my uber-liberal reps: I told them that an inquiry is necessary because people believe that the Democratic Party, specifically John Kerry's campaign, were involved in this. (Well, big duh there, but consider who I'm writing!) That until this is cleared up, it looks bad for the Democrats. Why, folks around home started taking down their John Kerry signs after this broke! (Which is true in my area; they weren't overly fond of Kerry before. Now, they say they're just not going to bother voting at all.) If they want any Dems to come out and vote, this has to be cleared.

Listen to SGT Tom.He knows of what he speaks.

After all the massacre of 9/11 killed thousands in a matter of hours.

In the war on terror, an away game is better than a home game and this ain't not game.

115 MR POL
well, he thinks he's special, anyway
what the heck, go ahead and play with him, just don't leave a mess

116 endangered
i've also heard that meehan believes he's annointed. don't look forward to that

118 el cid
likewise, i hold advanced degrees
have argued for nuking mecca and medina, but honestly think a couple of iowa-class battleships pulled up alongside would have a better effect... the sand-monkeys would be squealing in their snot-rags over that!

#102 Dan

Your points are well made, and it seems to me that the President would have done well to take the advice of Tom Friedman, who, in the run-up to war, suggested the President make those arguments for war, instead of relying on basically scaring the American public into war, which is what he did.

The President has opened himself up to charges of misleading the nation into war by not trusting the American people with what you describe as the 'real' rationale for war. I've gone back and looked at the President's 2003 State of the Union ([Link: www.ic.sunysb.edu...] and absolutely none of your points were made by the President. I think it is our duty as citizens to call him out on that.

123 ai
"yellow dog democrat" = i'd vote for a yellow dog if it were running on the democrat ticket.
red-dog republican is just a different version of that... with a play on "red dog"

mossley-

(in Kineson voice)

Good answer.

129 ai
i can still recall going into voting machines equipped with just two levers... one for the democrat party ticket, and one for the republican party ticket. a single flip of the lever voted right down the party line.

117 web1110

In total agreement with your post. The 'enemy from within', is our worst possible 'opponent'. Those from the outside can and will be defeated. I am doing and intend to do my part in this battle with the 'enemy from within', a great many of us are.

This enemy is very well entrenched and has the money to continue their battle for a long time. How can 'we' win against 'they', when 'they' are willing to sell their integrity, honor and their very souls to turn this country to 'their' thinking?

Your points are well made, and it seems to me that the President would have done well to take the advice of Tom Friedman, who, in the run-up to war, suggested the President make those arguments for war, instead of relying on basically scaring the American public into war, which is what he did.

Nonsense. The President's speech to the United Nations in September 2002 clearly outlined the case for war. It's a great speech, read it. The juciest quote:

To suspend hostilities, to spare himself, Iraq's dictator accepted a series of commitments. The terms were clear, to him and to all. And he agreed to prove he is complying with every one of those obligations.

He has proven instead only his contempt for the United Nations, and for all his pledges. By breaking every pledge -- by his deceptions, and by his cruelties -- Saddam Hussein has made the case against himself.

#124 endangered

In the war on terror, an away game is better than a home game

And it's good to have a W in your column.

BTW
Blue dog

Black dog

133 ai
did you keep any chads? for a souvenir?

in 2000 there were:

7950 killed with Handguns

2209 killed by other types of firearms

2090 killed by Knife

724 killed with a Blunt object

2545 killed with other weapon

from the deptartment of justice statics for the united states

poll shows race still a dead heat...
american research group poll
just remember not to get too confident over all this... there's 40 days 'til the election, and just because we managed to twart one attempt at a lying smear campaign doesn't mean there won't be a dozen others... possibly even including the poll referenced above, which seems weighted suspiciously to to women and democrats.

134 Renna

In the war on terror, an away game is better than a home game

And it's good to have a W in your column

Absolutely on both counts...:).

137
thwart

blast it, pimf!

#134 Renna

And the oval office... Excuse me for asking, what do the wine links signify.

...ohhh troll-a-me-o...

New! From Wrongco, is the John F'n Kerry combination, all-purpose, multi-use...^Thing!

The ^Thing! has such useful features as...

* Non-deterministic GPS: first you're in Cambodia, then you're not, then you're in...no wait...

* 1mm long knife, for self-inflicting minor wounds

* Compartment containing microfiche master of Purple Heart medal application, conveniently located near 1mm long knife

* Super-8 film camera. Makes re-enacting slaughter of naked Vietnamese boy, while simultaneously endangering men under your command, a snap!

* Waffle Iron

* Pseudo-random senatorial vote generator. Guaranteed to produce a voting record that, while seeming patternless, is consistently against US interests.

* Video receiver keyed to the camera in Sandy Berger's pants

and last, but not least, the most useful feature of the ^Thing!

* Tranquilizer dart, specifically keyed to the DNA of a certain Mizzus Heinz-Kerry

#134 endangeredinMASS

The wine links weren't specifically for you. They were for general consumption. Pardon the confusion.

The posts about yellow dog and red dog made me think of the Chateau Morrisette line of wines, mostly named after dogs of color.

Renna-

Thank you. Doesn't take much to confuse this ole soldier.

1millionth!
(hoping)

114 gordunce

testimony to trash the war record of a Vietnam Veteran

Do you mean like this;

"the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, tape wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the country side of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country."

kerry testimony

#145 elcid:

How about this?
[Link: www.toledoblade.com...]

Or this?
[Link: www.g0lem.net...]
Liberation Magazine doesn't sound like the most reliable source, but the article quotes quite a few more mainstream sources.

Or this?
[Link: www.pbs.org...]

Kerry was speaking an ugly truth about the War in Vietnam, and an ugly truth about all Wars, whether just or unjust.

You can argue that American atrocities were committed in a noble cause - as any American "atrocities" committed during World War II undoubtedly were. But you cannot argue that they don't, or didn't, exist.

Slightly OT

Was watchnig CNN on my break at work - some female reporter doing live reporting in front of what I think is Kerry's bus.

There's some dude off camera yelling at the top of his lungs..sounds like he's yelling "DUMP DAN RATHER NOW!"

It's too funny watching the reporter trying to talk over & ignore him...

So nodrog,

If you believe all these things happened in Viet Nam, and if you believe kerry's 'confession' that he too committed these crimes, do you believe he is a criminal and should be put on trial for said crimes?

No, because they weren't "crimes." If you had read my whole post, you would have seen my assertion that all wars contain atrocities. Curtis LeMay famously said that, if the U.S. had lost the war, he and others in the Air Force would have been tried for war crimes related to, among other things, the early-1945 firebombing of Tokyo.

Calley's My Lai trial was political - he managed to get singled out.

My argument, once again, is that Kerry's testimony was true.

Kerry specifically says that these crimes he listed(and he said they WERE crimes) were in addition to the normal ravages of war.

Meaning bad things happen in all wars, but Vietnam soldiers were doing much worse, and that unlike other wars they were

not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command.

Women don't like men with complex answers!

Women like complex men with simple answers!

Kerry's answers are so complex no one knows what he is talking about.

to send to your representatives about the serious implications of the CBS forgery affair.

Perhaps Elliot Spitzer is the guy to contact. Isn't he the AG for New York? Perhaps the local DA (Kinko's) or the AG for Texas.

Just brainstorming.

jpd

What should be added to any investigation is how the press gets a pass from McCain-Feingold.

It's nice to see CBS News take a hit on this, but the entire episode would be much more productive if it could ultimately destroy McCain-Feingold.

of course, that angle will never come up because both Parties have conspired to muzzle us.

so...cutting off limbs, wiping out villages...shooting the livestock...these aren't crimes??

I mean, I can understand if a cow charges, then by all means defend oneself. My nephew had to shoot a rabid dog in Iraq. I woulnd't call either situation a crime, or an atrocity.

But if the poor cow was simply minding it's own business, then shooting it for fun would certainly constitute a crime.

And Rape??? You call that an atrocity and not a crime?? You truly are dilusional. I bet if someone in your family were raped, you wouldn't call that an atrocity.

Face it. Kerry is a useless communist fag, who deserves nothing more than a prison sentence for the acts of treason he committed before congress. He has no class. He has no morals, ethics, or respect for the greatest nation on earth, the USA. He proves it over & over & over.

Ask him how many factories the Heinz corporation has overseas!!

GWB has a higher calling. Something I'm sure you can't possibly comprehend. His calling is to lead this nation through the garbage called the War on Terrorism. And like he said, If you're not for us, you're against us. Plain & simple. It's a black & white issue. There is no room for comprimise. We didn't start this war, but we sure have to fight it, and we're gonna finish it. Get on board or get out. Go to france. They like your type over there.

Do you believe the world would be better off with Sadam still in power? Of course you do.

Go back to whatever hole you crawled out of and take Dave J and ShanNYC with you.

#20 Dave J:

Yea, I love this "fact" in your bogus, opinionated link:

"From most accounts, Bush appears to have received preferential treatment to get into the Air National Guard and avoid the draft after he graduated from Yale University in 1968"

But check out this quote in the article, which discusses Bush's first three years:

"Dean Roome, a former fighter pilot who lived with Bush in the early 1970s, said Bush was a model officer during the first part of his career. But overall, he said, Bush’s Air Guard career was erratic — the first three years solid, the last two troubled.

Not to mention, this is also an opinion from someone recanting on 30 some odd years ago. Probably another leftist anyway...

Try reading the facts about Bush's service record:
http://www.hillnews.com/york/090904.aspx

New chapter exposes John Kerry’s unauthorized meeting in Paris with Communist Vietnamese leaders

145 gore'don

But you cannot argue that they don't, or didn't, exist.

Stay on the subject, THIS SUBJECT

testimony to trash the war record of a Vietnam Veteran

Prefaced by this

My definition of "evil" includes dredging up perjured or coached testimony THE

kerry testimony would fit your choice of words.

#43 ShanNYC 9/22/2004 10:02AM PST

Charles: I never said they were forged by the President himself. The fact is, it was used by our President as a basis to go to war. Excuse me if I find that a tad more detrimental to our democracy than some washed up news anchor hoping the President f'ed up thirty years ago. Maybe it's just me.

There are similarities between the two forgeries. Both Rather and the President really really wanted them to be true. They both defended indefensible positions once the underlying sources were proven to be false.

The key difference: We went to war on the basis of one forgery. CBS News ratings went down on the basis of another.

Uh, maybe you should also read the 16 resolutions before it, as well as the cease fire agreement from Operation Desert Storm.

This Niger thing was a small part of a long list of reasons for ousting Saddam. Not to mention that the president was accurate in what he said (I know it is difficult for you guys to know what was actually said between all the media spin) that he learned from Great Britain Intelligence that Saddam was seeking uranium. Get with it and stop your twisting of facts!!! Not only was he stating a FACT about British intelligence, but the Brits still stand by the statement, and there has also been other documents since then to also support the FACT that Iraq was seeking uranium from Niger.

...Oh, man leftists are so frustrating...

"And he goes to Vietnam and he shoots and he kills and he does his job or maybe he doesn't kill, maybe he just goes and he comes back, and when he gets back to this country he finds that he isn't really wanted"

"I understand 57 percent of all those entering the VA hospitals talk about suicide. Some 27 percent have tried, and they try because they come back to this country and they have to face what they did in Vietnam, and then they come back and find the indifference of a country that doesn't really care, that doesn't really care."

"Finally, this administration has done us the ultimate dishonor. They have attempted to disown us and the sacrifice we made for this country. In their blindness and fear they have tried to deny that we are veterans or that we served in Nam. We do not need their testimony."

kerry testimony

mr.kerry, your own words led to a goodly part of "the ultimate dishonor."

Your words once again are leading to "the ultimate dishonor." This time in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere our brave young and old alike are serving, in defense of this country, its ideals and its very core.

dave j

You have had the better part of the day, still no email from you. Are you having difficulty reading the alpha-numeric code to email me?

149 nordog
admit it... you've never actually held a loaded weapon, have you?
atrocities happen... pshaw.
yes, but only on rare occasions... if you believe this of american troops, you've never been around american troops. suggest you find out the truth instead of going on with your drivel.

155 dj
and others... please note that the whole "last two years" of guard service is a bogus issue... the air force started retiring the jets he flew in '71... unless he was going to re-up and undergo training on another kind of plane, he and all his buddies were superfluous... meaning, go find something usefull to do... or if you want out, please go.
check the air force museum...
f102 delta dagger

Sorry about Troll baiting...is good fishing, though...

#146 Gordon

How about reports from people that were confirmed to be there?

About Kerry, well, his testimony states that 1) he committed war crimes, 2) he witnessed war crimes and did nothing, 3) he had talked with others that had witnessed/committed war crimes.

For 1, is possible, including testimony from the men that served with him.

For 2, he seems to be the only one in his entire command structure that witnessed any war crimes.

For 3, pretty much all the others he talked to that claimed seeing war crimes were never in 'Nam, or if in 'Nam, never near any action. (Many never even served in the military.)

We can dig farther back than Vietnam when that is handled.

#114 Gordon/whomever

I have not seen any evidence that conclusively proves that the Swift Boat Vets are wrong. They were right about Cambodia. In the case of every other item they talk about regarding events IN Vietnam, well, there are 5 accounts of what happened. One from Vets, one in the official records (the ones Kerry REFUSES to release), and three different ones from Kerry...not counting that the 'official' may also include direct accounts from Kerry different from his other 3 official versions. The vets are VERY right about Kerry's testimony and post-active-duty activities, including meeting with the enemy while STILL in Naval service.

David J (numbers all over the place)

If you are going to go that far out on things, try bringing us some evidence. I'm a fairly reasonable person and always willing to look at new evidence. As for details on the fraudulent documents that contributed to us entering Iraq (not the sole cause, but sure, contributing factor), they came through Italy, or possibly from an Italian forger, but they were created at the request/instruction of the French, and several threads here have the link to that evidence. I'm just too lazy to look it up again right now. The reality is that there are approximately 14 dozen reasons we should be in Iraq, and not the least of them being, "It was the right thing to do." I get really nervous when we shy away from moral reasons to act because the most extreme side of 1 party of our political system thinks that 'moral absolutes' is a naughty concept.

David J: On guilt.

The only guilt I have is in the fact that our country actually put a person like Clinton in office for 8 years, and kept him there in spite of the legal obligation to remove him.

Even then, I don't feel that much guilt, because I did what I could short of writing a book, and I'm looking into that option...and no, not just a book about Clinton's 8 years.

#110 Short Fat Corporal:

Nicely put, if a bit graphic in some details and potentially offensive. These sick people were eagerly looking forward to 1,000. They were panting and drooling over that number. They were/are ignoring the innocents that were being killed on a regular basis before we went in. They were/are ignoring the thousands of innocents killed here in our own land by blatant, unprovoked attacks on the US on 9/11/2001. They also ignore that our soldiers are not just there to do their duty, they WANT to be there, and they even WILLINGLY put themselves at risk to prevent killing innocents when we could just carpet-bomb the areas and let Allah/God/fate/etc sort them out. Find some marine that has just lost a squadmate. Ask him if he wouldn't willingly sacrifice himself to save innocents/squad/etc. They count that not only a duty, but an honor to be allowed so to serve. (Not suicidal, but knowing a dangerous job has to be done and willing to put that duty ahead of themselves.) None fit for the uniform would feel otherwise. That is dedication. Those that served, living and dead, are far above you that criticize. Why won't YOU serve?

To the topic of the thread:

I have written to the President, my Congresspersons, the FEC, and the FCC. I plan soon to make myself a pain to the local CBS affiliate. This issue should not be allowed to die.

"Why won't YOU serve" to the critics, not to Short Fat Corporal.

Considering that my two Senatorial Representatives are Barbara Boxer and Diane Feinstein, I added the following to the bottom of the message:

I really don't expect much from your office or from you however. I wish I could depend on your support but, although you are are one of my Senatorial representatives, you have never represented me nor do I ever expect you to represent me.

#165 NTropy

I feel your pain. I'm "represented" by Sarbanes and Mikulski¹ ...

¹ Why yes, she does strongly resemble a stout little troll.

JackofTrades,

No offense, I knew who you were talkin to.

As far as ME being offensive, I owe no courtesy or respect to the filth that pollutes these threads. Both Gordon and BPP are well known for ignoring any factual argument that others present them. The other two trolls demonstated the same tendency on this thread.

My only hope is that enuff of a tongue lashing will prompt this trash to the sleeping pills or razor blades. T

There would be no point in offering a duel.
I guarantee that any one of these cowards will NEVER put themselves on the line for any "belief" they might manage to hold onto for more then 5 minutes.

# 3

Hey Jackass, if you're going to come in here throwing bombs, at least try to clear the cobwebs out of your head and express some thoughts of your own! I heard your post almost VERBATIM on television this morning from a Kerry campaign screwball.

It's easy, really. Back away from the bong, think about Iraq, or the president, or whatever you wish, and FORM YOUR OWN OPINION. Then express it.

Fucking parrot.

T

Did the Feed Store have a sale on Purina™ Troll Food today? Sheesh.

DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS.

Even when the troll food is on sale.

I just got on for my daily dose of truth to find these trolls runnin' their mouths. Obviously they have not read the resolution that gave congressional approval for war in Iraq. It is here for any who have not yet read it. In it states many for reasons to going to war including the one about weapons of mass destruction is under so much scrutiny. The threat of Iraq having WMD was validated by the Clinton orginization with bombings of factories in 1998 and further validated by the Niger document that is now known to be forged, by France.
That is the truth behind the decision to invade Iraq which I and well more than half of America still support today.
I'm starting to get the feeling that what these trolls were really trying to say was that democrats like Clinton and France aren't credible sources of intelligence and should no longer be trusted. I that is the case I completely agree with both of them.Irag Resolution

Hey the pickins are good today. I even have a few trolls in here with me.

Good work Dave, ShaNY etc. You are accused of avoiding the issue but no one yet has responded to your question of who is held to a higher authority of vetting intelligence information, CBS news or the President and his administration?

That is the utlimate question and no one here will touch it. CBS was wrong and they should pay the same price as the Bush Administration. Equal heads should roll.

TO Californican. You need to get out of the sun. Do you really believe "People also CHOOSE to join the military. They know the risk but choose to join anyway." They join to protect the freedoms of AMericans not to carry out the personal vendettas of an administration.

#136 Dusty road guy

in 2000 there were:

7950 killed with Handguns

2209 killed by other types of firearms

2090 killed by Knife

724 killed with a Blunt object

2545 killed with other weapon

from the deptartment of justice statics for the united states

I don't know where you're going with this but like many similar posts, car accidents etc., I'm assuming you are justifying deaths in Iraq with these figures.

In that case you are using figures from 2000 to compare data today but we'll assume the numbers to be the same today and you missed one important one for your comparison.

1000+ killed by lie

#148 Ballistic Renegads

I could understand someone having not lived through a war being as naive to think that war crimes do not happen in every military but for someone to have witnessed Abu Ghraib it is inconceivable that you could still be so blind as to think that it doesn't happen.

Everything that the non trolls have posted here as a war crime; rape, killing, torture, all went on at Abu Ghraib. We are actually trying people for these abuses now. How can you say Americans don't commit war crimes? What make you believe it couldn't happen in Viet Nam if it could happen in Iraq when we are being guided by a man with a HIGHER CALLING?

#171 billib

you referred to my #148 post which statesasks:

If you believe all these things happened in Viet Nam, and if you believe kerry's 'confession' that he too committed these crimes, do you believe he is a criminal and should be put on trial for said crimes?

I'm not sure why you think I said I didn't think these things took place. Maybe your reading skills aren't too good, who knows what they teach in troll school.

It was your fellow troll, gordon who wanted to argue the verbiage of 'cimes' vs 'atrocities'...so typical.

As Charles told the other trolls earlier, "try to keep up".
IMO, if the people running the prison committed crimes, they should deal with those consequences. In the same respect, kerry should deal with the consequences of his crimes as well. He confessed to it. He also said others committed crimes yet didn't bother to provide proof as usual.

As far as your 1000+ killed by lie statement...Clinton lied about why he didn't get UBL when the guy was offered up by Sudan...3,000 died as a result. I don't guess you bothered to consider that. And I'm sure you didn't question it or accuse Clinton of any wrongdoing.

Face it. You'll NOT change anyone's mind here. And you won't change yours either. That would require intelligence on your part, and I just don't see that you have any, otherwise you would have read my #148 post in its entirety. It's only 1 sentence long.

In answer to the question of, who is held to a higher authority, our US intelligence service is. And that has been dealt with. Mr. Goss has been confirmed to head up the CIA. Maybe you forgot about that too.

Now go away. Take the other trolls and go back to whatever hole you crawled out of. When you can make an intelligent accusation, BACKED UP WITH FACTS, then we can talk.

Trolls...sheeezzz...

#172 Ballistic Renegade

Still going ballistic I see.

You are right I will never change your mind because you refuse to stick to the question at hand. Instead you resort to name calling and generalizing.

If Kerry is a criminal and should be tried for crimes he committed in Viet Nam then so to should all of those connected with Abu Ghraib. It's not happening to those involved in the Abu Ghraib crimes and no one is complaining so what's the big deal about Kerry?

If CBS has some responsibility to make absolutely certain that any papers and intelligence they receive is without any doubt authentic/correct/accurate/... Doesn't the administration of our country have that same level of responsibility to ensure data they are using is of the same accuracy and authenticity before deciding to go to war on it or using it to persuade people and Congress that there is cause to go to war. If you want to see heads roll at CBS so be it I'll agree but there should be at least the SAME LEVEL of responsibility placed on our government and I don't see you demanding it I only see you avoiding it.

As for Mr. Goss, he was forced on W. W didn't want that position but he flopped and decided to create it because of public opinion. Furthermore Mr. Goss is not replacing someone who was fired because of incompetency of intelligence collection. It's a NEW position of incompetency.

Now to Clinton's lie. You are speaking of a story that the 9/11 commission could not find any justification for. It is an accusation by Mansoor Ijaz who has a personal vendetta and is not of the highest moral character as he had financial reasons for wanting Sudan in the good graces of the US in 1996. The story also goes that the Clinton's would have welcomed the extradition of UBL to Saudi but the Saudi's (our wonderful allies) would not take him. BTW no one ever tried to justify a Bill Clinton lie with car death statistics that was the real point.

You can still catch this Ijaz character on FOX News spewing garbage to Brit Hume. Brit even has to cut him off at times because of his lunacy but a BALLISTIC RENEGADE could probably be duped into listening.

I have humored you by answering all of your remarks so I can't be accused of avoiding you but you still haven't responded to the original issue of why W is less responsible for the accuracy of his intellegence than CBS.

If Kerry is a criminal and should be tried for crimes he committed in Viet Nam then so to should all of those connected with Abu Ghraib. It's not happening to those involved in the Abu Ghraib crimes and no one is complaining so what's the big deal about Kerry?

Unbelievable ...

#173

Once again, you didn't read my post too well. Porter Goss is the new head of the CIA. Not that new position we've been heraring about. Goss is replacing George Tenet (Hired by Clinton) who resigned. (Try to keep up) Here's the link:

[Link: www.heraldsun.news.com.au...]

From what I've heard, there are some people who were aledgedly involved in the prison issue in Iraq, who are currently on trial. One of those guys got 8 months, for something. I didn't pay too much attention to it. I was busy laughing at the pics of the guy with panties on his head. What a sceam!! (could not believe thay had pics of that stuff)

ShanNYC #126

Go back a few more months to Bush's address to the UN in 2002 [Link: www.whitehouse.gov...]
Dan's points are all layed out there - for everyone that wants to pay attention. It did a lot to convince me - and it still does.