If he were any more two faced, he'd be Janus Kerry, not John.

Hey, mandatory service...that sounds suspiciously like...nahhh, only a Republican would contemplate such at thing.

stunning

Vote for Kerry: AMERICA'S HAD WORSE

Does anyone ever wonder why Muslim countries don't seem to be sending troops to stop the genocide in Sudan?

Shit, did anyone actually read the articles? He's not talking about a friggen draft. Far from it. Duh.

So, the plan to re-institute the draft was introduced by two dummycrats, and mentioned by a dummycrat presidential candidate, and the Republicans are the ones responsible...

Hey. Which one of these mushrooms do I eat to get back through the looking glass?

Is mandatory another word for...

drum roll...

the draft?

#7 canuckistan

He's not talking about a friggen draft.

I see mandatory means elective. Flip flop.

#7 Canuckistan

You're right - no draft. Everybody does it. You think it's better?

Yeah, but the MSM is not interested in who proposed a real draft, if that person is a Democrat.

The MSM cares only about one thing: bringing down Bush.

For Bush to win, he, his campaign, and his supporters need to find a way to break through the MSM fog.

That was what made the RNC so successful: it was one time when the Bush message could get out in spite of the media. People will vote for Bush if the message gets through in spite of the MSM.

Now more than ever we must defeat the MSM...our very security depends upon it...

This is ringing some unpleasant bells...

I've had extensive experience dealing with community service workers - I won't call them "volunteers" - in our community's emergency assistance food bank.

With some notable exceptions, the coerced do a poor job. IOW, they're often more trouble than they're worth, in terms of motivation and needed supervision.

Give me real volunteers who want to be there any day, instead of some pissed-off, resentful slackers who were caught with dope in their car.

OT

What about these plans for our schools. This was just on our local news. Floor plans of elementary and high schools from Salem OR, Fort Meyers, Florida, Georgia, Michigan, two towns in N. Jersey and in California were found on Iraqi computer. The names of the schools weren't released - people are warned to look for suspicious activity.
We can't elect an idiot like Kerry! link

Putting kids through bootcamp, teaching them how to light fires, tie knows and maybe shoot a gun, is NOT a draft.

Sending adults to a foreign country to get shot at by geurillas... THAT's a draft.

#8

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

Next time we roll one out of HIS bag!

Correction: should be "sending UNWILLING adults."

Mandatory service sounds exactly like the ...gasp...draft! Israel has mandatory service and so does...Cuba. I wonder which form Kerry was contemplating when devising this scheme?

If mommies and daddies are furious with Bush for sending their volunteer children to war, imagine how pissed they will become to learn what Kerry has in mind. One can only imagine what the Leftist have devised for America's youth.

OT

The LLL Voter Fraud Begins in Florida

Sickening.

Sending adults to a foreign country to get shot at by geurillas... THAT's a draft.

Even if they sign up voluntarily?

#15 Canuckistan
Drunk, fat, and stupid is no way to go through life son.

#4 - LOL!!

There's a cynical look at our election from Ireland that contains this line that cracks me up:

Can the Bush bashers offer a coherent argument as to why Kerry should be favoured over the incumbent? I asked my Bush bashing friends and they all gave me the same answer: Kerry's not George Bush. Some argument. Pressed on the issue, they say that the choice is that of the lesser of two evils, with Kerry clearly the lesser man.

The article is linked here.

Hey. Which one of these mushrooms do I eat to get back through the looking glass?

Cake makes you larger, mushroom makes you small, the pills mother gives you, don't do anything at all...

You take the blue pill and the story ends.
You wake in your bed and you believe
whatever you want to believe.

You take the red pill and you stay
in Wonderland, and I show you how
deep the rabbit-hole goes.*

John Kerry and John Edwards will offer a simple deal...

A deal they can't refuse? That almost lacks nuance.

As part of his 100 day plan...

And on the 101st day, he ate foie gras, and pronounced it bon.

Maybe he and Algore can tour together next year--The Frog and the Log Tour, 2005!

200,000 coerced "volunteers". I wonder if the plan calls for the slacker army to invade any union turf? And not just the mundane brainless tasks like cleaning parks and cutting grass that pro cRAT flunkies do so well, I'm talking about handing out bumper stickers and manning the phones for the DNC!

OT OT

Chirac rails against US cultural domination- on drudge:

Link

As President, John Kerry will have the courage to lead and call on all Americans to make our nation stronger. Whether it is protecting America from the threats of terrorism or addressing the problems we have at home, America’s new challenges will not be met by the same old answers of big government or big tax cuts for the wealthy. John Kerry will call on all Americans - tapping into the idealism and ingenuity of Americans and putting it to work on building a safer, stronger, and more secure nation. Americans already make an enormous difference in their communities, volunteering, in Boys and Girls Clubs or homeless shelters. Many Americans do full time service. John Kerry believes that in these times, we need to bolster these efforts with a nationwide commitment to national service. Whether it is a Summer of Service for our teenagers, helping young people serve their country in return for college, or the Older Americans in Service program, John Kerry’s plan will call on every American of every age and every background to serve. John Kerry will set a goal of one million Americans a year in national service within the next decade.

Mandatory service is not big government
Ignorance is truth
Freedom is slavery

My link on #14 has a video report.

#7 canuckistan

if you're going to troll, you might try some better bait next time. Although you did get some nibbles so i'll give you credit for that (why are you people still responding to canuckistan's trolls???).

7 Canukistan

As part of his 100 day plan to change America, John Kerry will propose a comprehensive service plan that includes requiring mandatory service for high school students and four years of college tuition in exchange for two years of national service.

Do you know what "mandatory" means?

More voter fraud

Although critical of Bush's decision to invade Iraq, Bray said that, like his peers he is pleased that Saddam Hussein was arrested.

"He's a dictator. He's a thug," he said. "But what we've done to deal with this thug and this dictator is unconscionable."

What, did you want us to offer him candy instead?

Idiots. DANGEROUS idiots.

Expanding on #19

Theresa LePore vowed to close the Palm Beach County elections office at 5 p.m. Monday, the final day to register to vote in the Nov. 2 election, but a young man who arrived about 15 minutes after the deadline managed to drop off 550 applications on behalf of a group of Muslims determined to oust President Bush.

Travesty in my home state

to be fair, the plan deals more with community service, not military service.

#19 - I thought 501(c)3 orgs were specifically NOT allowed to participate in partisan activities. While getting people registered to vote is not in itself partisan, if this group has "vowed to oust President Bush" don't you think that's partisan? Or is it just me...

Maybe the rules are different for a religious organization, and maybe I've got them wrong in the first place, anybody know?

I think it should be plain and clear to anyone who cares about Bush winning and keeping Kerry out of the White House that we need to act, mobilize, and get mad as hell to keep the Dems from stealing this election.

The MSM is in the tank for Kerry. There is massive voter fraud all around.

Only we the people can rise up and prevent this election from being stolen by the Dems.

We need to care enough and get motivated enough and get mad enough so that we do what we can to help Bush win. We need to volunteer, do poll watching, do all of the grassroots efforts, spread word of mouth, contact media, etc...

If we don't care enough the Dems will steal this election. We can't count on the MSM to tell the truth, and so we need to act now.

This is a bombshell!
Obviously CBS and the NYT will run a lead story on this!
(After all, they would if it was the republicans who'd said this).
But don't hold your breath...

30 a noble vision

Do you know what "mandatory" means?

What, do you think Kerry wants to send high school students (we're talking about teenagers here) to Iraq so they can start fighting? Puhleaze.

You can get hypertechnical about what the word "draft" means, but the "draft" that everyone's afraid of isn't the compulsory bootcamp type. It's the type where you go to Iraq and get your balls blown off by an RPG.

Mobis,

More funny business from the Sunshine State:

Duval County informed of possible voter registration fraud.

I wonder if the reason the dems were so furious about the 2000 election results was because they knew that they'd jigged the voting and still didn't win.

OT: John Edwards on TCM

I don't believe it, I am watching John Edwards being interviewed on Turner Classic Movies Channel with TCM host Ben Mankiewicz before a showing of Dr. Strangelove. Leave it to Turner to push his politics into the move channel and attaching Edwards to antiwar antimilitary movie.

Those freaky moonbats are so stuck on the idiotic feeling that the 2000 election was "stolen" that they are now trying to get a head start on their own thievery.

The only thing Kerry left out of his plan was who he was going to choose to be his Balder Von Shirach. James Carville perhaps? Lanny Davis? No chance for Jesse Jackson, he already has Al Rukan as a youth group to do his "service work".

I wonder, if after kerry should be elected, how many people will shit bricks at the federal notices appearing in their mailboxes with orders to report. Doesn't matter what kind of duty, you just have to report.
I'm also wondering how labor laws will affect the mandatory service for high schoolers?
Of course none of this will affect the elite. After all their duty is to lead us poor huddled masses. Wouldn't want kerry's daughters to break a nail now would we?

Does anyone remember way back in the 90's when Clinton was president?

Am I the only one who recalls a period of time when it seemed like there was a new Clinton scandal every week? There was so much coming out at the same time on the various scandals (granted-these were also the days of the Republican fever swamp) that none of the scandals could gain traction.

That's what I am reminded of now except it's John Kerry and there is overwhelming proof that he stands for nothing except assuming his rightful place.

Still, there seems to be no traction being gained. It's all white noise. The guy changes nuances so fast that no one can ever dare to keep up with them all.

Anyway, just wondering what you all think.

Take the facts, discuss 'em, and then send an email to all your friends. This info. has to get out of this room to have an effect.

We are cooked. Between the MSM coup to elect Kerry, George Soros buying the Presidency, the lawyers they have lined up for voter lawsuits, the cheating Dems at the polling stations, and the illegal voter registrations ...they have all the bases covered, the
f-ing anti-American bastards. What can WE do about it?

Our Founding Fathers must be spinning in their graves.

The Dems have worked their people into a frenzy: they are ransacking local GOP headquarters, in some cases doing drive by shootings, and engaging in massive voter fraud.

Their mindset is that they are justified to cheat and steal this election; those that wouldn't have bought into that anyway are fed the lie that since the last election was stolen they are free to steal this one.

We need to get mad as hell and stop the loony left from taking over this country. I don't think we can even imagine how bad it would be if Kerry were elected and pursued his appeasement policies. Remember, Chamberlain's appeasement resulted in the horrors of WWII.

Reminds me of "mandatory community service" requirement some high schools have. They never seem to get that "required volunteering" is a contradiction.

Reminds me when Clinton raised taxes--he said he was "asking" Americans to "contribute." Bubba, when armed federal agents show up at your door when the check doesn't arrive, it ain't a contribution.

Mellow: I think you might be onto something: Kerry has so many vulnerabilities, it's hard to know where to start attacking. There has to be a balance; you have to attack on more than one front to avoid one attack getting old, but attack on too many fronts at once and nothing sticks.

But the real problem is that the MSM won't utter a negative word about Kerry or his policies. They won't do any critical analysis, or hold his rhetoric accountable to his record.

If we don't actively work to get the word out over the MSM, we risk this country's future.

I would also urge a huge word of mouth grassroots campaign against the MSM. We need to drive subscription rates and TV ratings into the ground.

The perfect guy to head up Kerrys "Yout Corps", who else but Chris Mathews? Get those kids ready for Liebstandarte John Kerry. He could bring Janet Reno out of retirement to head up the girls division. Jumpin' Janet has a warm spot for kids.

Another thought-

Have to go after the advertisers. Massive boycotts. But we don't have enough time to do that before the election. It's only 3 weeks away.

Call it whatever they will, the Dhims not only know how your money should be spent better than you, they also know how some years of your life should be spent better than you. All in the same spirit as mandatory volunteerism required for HS graduation, another favorite Dhim, LLL idea.

Iron Fist: you are so correct in your analysis.

Kerry's plan is just more of the same liberal plan to make people more and more dependent on big brother government.

There's the old rule: whoever pays the bills makes the rules. That is why it is so dangerous to have govt pay for everything...the more govt pays, the more they decide for all of us. There is no getting away from that rule.

Kerry does indeed want us to get used to serving the govt...

He is only hiding the ball now...if Kerry were elected, he would bring this plan back that he has now taken down from his website...we know Kerry is not afraid to say one thing and then do another...

52 Iron Fist

He's talking about indentured servitude to the State. A limited form of slavery. Everyone's a slave to the State for the first two years after high-school.

You're wrong on that. His plan is to pay your tuition if you join the army for 2 years. There's no slavery there. It's a mutually agreed deal, all voluntary. If you don't want to join, then you'll have to find another way to pay your tuition. (i.e., work at mcDonalds).

# 5 Smiley -- you said

Does anyone ever wonder why Muslim countries don't seem to be sending troops to stop the genocide in Sudan?

Maybe the Deathcult Scripture has something to do with it, ya think ? ---

Tabari IX:69 “Killing disbelievers is a small matter to us.”

Tabari VIII:141 “The battle cry of the Companions of the Messenger of Allah that night was: ‘Kill! Kill! Kill!’”

Bukhari:V5B59N512 “The Prophet had their men killed, their woman and children taken captive.”

Ishaq:489 “Do the bastards think that we are not their equal in fighting? We are men who think that there is no shame in killing.”

Qur’an 2:191 “And kill them wherever you find and catch them. Drive them out from where they have turned you out; for Al-Fitnah (polytheism, disbelief, oppression) is worse than slaughter.”

Qur’an 33:60 “Truly, if the Hypocrites stir up sedition, if the agitators in the City do not desist, We shall urge you to go against them and set you over them. Then they will not be able to stay as your neighbors for any length of time. They shall have a curse on them. Whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain without mercy—a fierce slaughter—murdered, a horrible murdering.”

Bukhari:V4B52N270 “Allah’s Messenger said, ‘Who is ready to kill Ashraf? He has said injurious things about Allah and His Apostle.’ Maslama got up saying, ‘Would you like me to kill him?’ The Prophet proclaimed, ‘Yes.’ Maslama said, ‘Then allow me to lie so that I will be able to deceive him.’ Muhammad said, ‘You may do so.’”

Tabari VII:97/Ishaq:368 “We carried Ka’b’s head and brought it to Muhammad during the night. We saluted him as he stood praying and told him that we had slain Allah’s enemy. When he came out to us we cast Ashraf’s head before his feet. The Prophet praised Allah that the poet had been assassinated and complimented us on the good work we had done in Allah’s Cause. Our attack upon Allah’s enemy cast terror among the Jews, and there was no Jew in Medina who did not fear for his life.’”

Tabari VII:149 “I went into a cave with my bow and arrows. While I was in it, a one-eyed man from the Banu Bakr came in driving some sheep. He said, ‘Who’s there?’ I said [lied], ‘I’m a Banu Bakr.’ ‘So am I.’ Then he laid down next to me, and raised his voice in song: ‘I will not believe in the faith of the Muslims.’ I said, ‘You will soon see!’ Before long the Bedouin went to sleep and started snoring. So I killed him in the most dreadful way that anybody has ever killed. I leant over him, struck the end of my bow into his good eye, and thrust it down until it came out the back of his neck. After that I rushed out like a wild beast and took flight. I came to the village of Naqi and recognized two Meccan spies. I called for them to surrender. They said no so I shot and arrow and killed one, and then I tied the other up and took him to Muhammad.” Tabari VII:150 “I had tied my prisoner’s thumbs together with my bowstring. The Messenger of Allah looked at him and laughed so that his back teeth could be seen. Then he questioned me and I told him what had happened. ‘Well done!’ he said, and prayed for me to be blessed.”

Stuck-in-Ca: you are correct...we need massive boycotts to shake up the advertisers using the MSM.

We cannot do it all before the election, but we can get started to a certain extent. More than anything else at this point, we need to get the truth out in spite of the MSM.

But no matter what the election outcome, we must plan massive boycotts after the election. After the election, literally bringing the MSM to their knees needs to be our highest priority.

Canukistan: you are incorrect: read Kerry's plan: it requires mandatory service and then college tuition in exchange for that.

Read this:
As part of his 100 day plan to change America, John Kerry will propose a comprehensive service plan that includes requiring mandatory service for high school students and four years of college tuition in exchange for two years of national service.

That sure as hell sounds like mandatory service to me.

I support the idea of mandatory public service. A two year requirement beginning on your 18th birthday.

What I don't support is someone running for President who also likes the idea but lies about it to protect his chance of getting elected.

I also support a national legal driving age of 18. And a national legal marriage age of 21. And a national age of consent age of 18. And a National scholastic achievement requirement. And a national ban on unions for all public servents. And all kinds of other good stuff.

60 Another Thought

Yeah well what does this mean:

John Kerry and John Edwards will offer a simple deal to hundreds of thousands of America’s young people: if you will serve for two years in one of America’s toughest and most important jobs, we will cover four years of tuition at a typical public university.

Specifically, what is the word "if" doing in there if it's mandatory?

One thing is crystal clear: after the election, we must organize a massive boycott effort to drive the MSM into the ground.

They are atrocious; they literally seek to control us like Pravda.

They've always been bad, but this election they've become outright brazen about their bias; their attitude is, as symbolized by the Rathergate scandal, "oh yeah, but what can you do about it?"

Look at CBS...no one has been fired for Rathergate, and their investigation is conveniently being stonewalled so the report won't be released until after the election. And Dan is scheduled to retire anyway. Basically, they are manipulating the system so that everyone gets away with this attempt at fraud. No one will pay if they have their way.

In any society, the control of information is crucial. What people think means everything. That is why when dictators try to take over one of their first moves is to take over the media.

Well, we already have a media trying to control this country. We need to stage another revolution. If not, we are destined to follow the same path as socialist Europe, only we may not last that long because the terrorists will be able to hit us with impunity, and the MSM will not allow us to fight.

Has there been any discussion of Edwards' S-Corp in the MSM? Could you imagine Bush talking about the 'rich' not paying enough in taxes and then not paying them himself? Oh the gnashing of teeth!

"I paid what I was legally obligated to pay." John Edwards. Good one John. Dirtbag.

Canuckistan: as someone else has pointed out, you are half correct.

Under Kerry, there would be a mandatory service, and then this other offer made.

As Iron Fist so eloquently put it:
You are only a slave for an unspecified amount of time. If you choose to become an indentured servant you will get some compensation for your servitude.

It troubles me that Kerry doesn't specify the amount of time for this mandatory service: that sounds like he would want to leave his options open to expand the length of time.

Let's remember: Hitler had his youth corps, where the youth served the state. Kind of sounds like Kerry liked the idea.

Another Thought:

I agree that it will have to be a grassroots effort. It is the only way to go.
The problem is that there isn't anyway to do that without using the MSM at some point who are clearly not going to do anything to help Bush.
Bloggers made their bones in this election but they had to have the biased MSM to play off of.
Boycotting advertisers would be a long term strategy, although I personally am not a user of Lamosil, Viagra and Preparation H.

What else can be done?

So what's the big deal?
The constitition forbids only "involuntary servitude",
not "mandatory service".
Mandatory service is fine.
Send the new servants out in the fields to pick cotton, I say.

justdanny #61

I support the idea of mandatory public service. A two year requirement beginning on your 18th birthday.

I most always agree with you, justdanny, but not on this one. Aren't there around 3,000,000 (or more) kids turning eighteen every year? There's only about 1,500,000 in all our armed forces now. What are three million kids going to do, or six million if it's for two years?

We sure don't need some new bureaucracy sitting around coming up with busy work for three or six millions kids at a time. Plus, it'd be a monumental waste of years out of the lives, education, and career plans of the kids.

I agree that the military and some other type real service could be beneficial for many kids, but there just aren't enough legitimate things for that many kids to do.

#66 Iron Fist

I worked my way (with the help of some non-Governmental scholarships) through two college degrees.

Arguing aside, congrats on that.

#70 a.k.a. Will

Use the Swiss model. 3 months of basics, then two weeks a year.

Mellow Traveller: I don't know exactly what can be done to bring down the MSM...

However, it seems to me that with all the ingenuity of the blogosphere there has to be some good ideas out there.

Right now, I would suggest that any strategy include:
1) plain old-fashioned word of mouth...you'd be surprised how much influence we have with those around us...if we talk down the MSM, others will take notice and cancel subscriptions, not watch MSM TV shows, etc...
2) wield our economic power. Contacting advertisers can be powerful. And certainly there are all types of advertisers.
3) Use the alternative media at our disposal, such as blogs, talk radio, Fox News, etc...

I cannot believe that we cannot bring the MSM to their knees, or at least create so much popularity for alternative media outlets that the MSM won't matter anyway.

Many a company has been brought to their knees by consumer grassroots activism. Also, consider the case of the atrocious CBS Reagan movie...the people triumphed.

So I believe it can be done...we just need to be organized, energized, and smart about it.

I want to see Chad and Tina and Billy Bob and Brenda and Tyrone and Shaniquwa and Jose and Maria cleaning the streets and doing marching drills on the courthouse lawn. Combat boots, khaki pants and desert tan t-shirts saying, "Yes Sir" and "Yes Ma'am" to anyone who even looks at them.

At the end of their service I want a hell week that lasts three months. So intensive in every area of advanced combat that on their last day of service, they are every one, every individual, the best army of one on the face of the planet.

Draft ? Hell no. Mandatory service. Its no mystery why LLL dickweeds go to colleges to harvest fodder for their hate machines. Have you spent any time with the 18 to 20 year old youth of America lately ? And I thought my generation of stoned out slackers were worthless.

Kerry has only one plan: to get into the Whitehouse. He'll say whatever he thinks will help get him there. I don't believe he has any intention of implementing any of his "plans".

Right now his strategy seems to be working. The MSM is going into overdrive to assure his victory and I fear it's over for Bush (especially if he blows tomorrow's debate). I hope I'm wrong but the MSM is manufacturing momentum for Kerry and once the MSM starts firing on all cylinders its hard (if not impossible) to beat them.

#70 a.k.a. Will

Yeah, it needs a lot of work. But I am strongly in favor of forcing every American citizen between the age of 18 and 20 to serve this country. 1/35th of their life given to this amazing place since it is highly likely they'll end up taking what we have here for granted the other 34/35ths of their lives.

I'm not talking about two years of mil. service. I think anyone in the mil. would slap me to the ground if I suggested that, and I'd stay down there when they did because they would be right. Nobody I know in the mil. wants to serve next to an unwilling participant. But yes, there would be combat training involved. Some very intense combat training.

Mr. Pol #72

Use the Swiss model. 3 months of basics, then two weeks a year.

If someone proposed that we put every able bodied eighteen year-old through basic training of one branch of our military, then two weeks a year refresher , I'd be all for it. It's remind every kid of what role the military has played in our history and present.

But make-work national service? Seems like a waste of time.

You might have proposed a workable and useful idea.

Canukistan #57

His plan is to pay your tuition

And just who in the hell's money is he going to use to pay for all of this education? You don't think he's going to use TayRayZah's fortune do you?
How about this, raise taxes to about 75% of everyone's
income. None of what he's promising is NOT free.
Someone has to pay for it, and it sure won't be him or the billionairehead.

justdanny #77

I agree with the spirit and intent of your idea, but it needs to be something worthwhile. Two years of too long. What do you think of Mr. Pol's Swiss model in #72 and #78.

I realize that others have had gape jaw over the fact that the D'himmicrats are the ones proposing the draft, not seriously. But the Republicans are being blamed for it!

I remember my dad telling me stories about how he worked in government sponsored "Conservation Corps", camps prior to WWll. I understand there were thousands of teens involved in this program.

a.k.a. Will,

I love his idea. It is essentially what the National Guard is here. Basic training. One weekend a month. Two weeks a year.

I could go for six months basic training mixed with public service. One week a month for eighten months. And then something like two weeks a year for twenty years.

Looks like some would want to be able to choose my more severe idea to just leave it all behind.

We're broaching on socialism here. Make busy work, just like the highway projects you see everywhere. Perpetual
jobs because they're never done. Kind of reminds you of dam building doesn't it.

Just a suggestion. Just do what the democraps did with their draft rumour. Email the cached Kerry website that Charles has so conveniently furnished to everyone you know.
That's what I am doing right now. Moonsbats and all.

justdanny #83

Looks like some would want to be able to choose my more severe idea to just leave it all behind.

Some might. A shorter model might work for most. Thinking more, I expect there are more like 4,000,000+ turning eighteen each year of a nation of almost 300 million. Some military training, public service, and some real history about why this country is free and wealthy while most of the world is repressive and poor.

Of course, anything would have to pass a Congress that is almost half LLL.

Socialism ? I dont see the connection ?

Kerry/Edwards = Big Government

Big Government = Higher Taxes

Higher Taxes = Less personal income

Less personal income = greater dependence on Big
Government

Greater Dependence on Big Government insures deminished independence and freedoms.

This is what the Kerry's, Soro's, Kennedy's, and all the LLL's really want. Socialism at it's finest.

Reading comments above, Kerry has another "original" idea - military service in exchange for free college.

The most common program is the GI Bill, enlist for a few years, contribute, and get a fair chunk of change for college.

Lesser known is the Student Loan Repayment Program - rack up your student loans, enlist fo a few years, and the loans will be paid off.

I knew one guy who did this about ten years ago, the GI Bill was good for about $20k. His bill was about $70k.
Twenty $k a year tax free is a pretty good enlistment bonus.

Yup, Kerry sure has a grand plan there...

a.k.a. Will,

We agree on the core issue. I think your idea would be much more workable than mine. There are a whole host of reasons why I think something like this would be good across a wide range of fronts.

Two rules I would not negotiate away though:

Deferments for those volunteering for military service only.

(thats two rules)

R.A. Heinlein had a better idea. Earn your full citizenship and right to vote through service. No serve, no vote.

Let me spin this!

200k kids for 2 years at $20k per year, I assume they are going to pay these folks for their mandatory service?? or is this going to be slave labor??

That's $8 Billion dollars!!!

200K kids for 4 years of college at $40K (ya right, but anyway).

That's $32 Billion dollars!!!

So $40 Billion for this little scheme.

So much for keeping the middle class tax cuts.

BULLCRAP. Lets look at some numbers here folks, lets say you got at least 1.5 million on the lower end of teenagers turning 18 per year, and on the upper end closer to 3 million. You want to pay for 1.5 million students who get 4 years of college tuition...but at WHICH COLLEGE?? State colleges are low cost but quite a few have gone the drain in regards to their standards of education. Private colleges can cost upwards of 20-30k a year now and even there you can have problems in regards to what kind of education background you're getting (need I mention Concordia university here folks?). SO on the lower end you're looking at 5k (for a state college like san jose state university for example) per student for 4 years total and at the upper end you're looking at 120k or more. For 1.5 million students thats approximately $7.5 billion a year. Now tell me of those students who are in highschool how many would look FORWARD to 2-4 years of a mandatory service after some odd months in boot camp, then going to either domestic services or who knows where else under kerry's "brilliant" idea where they aren't getting paid and after the entire period they get the equivalent of 5000 bucks worth of tuition (because you can be damn sure the government isnt going to fork over 120k per student to get the best education either). Hell highschool students earn more working at McDonalds for a year or two than what Kerry is offering. Tell me again WHY this makes sense? No high school student in their right mind would like this and would make them absolutely bitter towards the government and the people that supported such legislation. This isn't simply a bad idea, its delusional.

I believe Israel and Ukraine require mandatory military service of it's young people. Is that right?

#91 TenRing

I'll second the Heinlein plan [as amended] for more reasons than I can get into now beyond this - call an absolute militay draft so that all dodgers can get 1 year+ (in absentia if needed, don't bother tracking them down or wasting the money to put them into the clink) so they can never vote again, own firearms, etc.

Some "people" deserve to be second class "citizens".

Kerry + Kennedy = Botox and Detox

#90, Just Danny. We already have excellent incentive plans for military service in place in this country. Just go on down to a recruiting office and you would be pleasently surprised by all the advantages a sharp young person can gain in return for enlisting in the service of their country. The service academies provide the finest leadership training in the world for those who can make the entrance cut. An academy education would probably cost about 60 to 80 K for a years tuition on the open market. For a young kid who is not college material, the services provide a means of maximizing their potential and broadening their horizons while providing skills knowledge and experience that will serve them well for the rest of their life.

Canuckistan...

"Putting kids through bootcamp, teaching them how to light fires, tie knows and maybe shoot a gun, is NOT a draft."

My friend's 14 year old son was to be sent in for "mandatory service" in the Ukraine. He was not going to learn how to be a Boy Scout. He was going to learn how to be a soldier to fight the terrorist bastards in Chechnya.

John Kerry’s plan will call on every American of every age and every background to serve.

It seems it is not just the military...unless Kerry plans on having 80 year old grandma's in boot camp?!?!?!?

#91 Ten Ring

Yes, Heinlein had an interesting idea in "Starship Troopers." However, people of small stature would be at a disadvantage, unless 'military service' could be working at a desk for the military. They'd have to go around trying to make it 'fair' for everyone, you know. Still, it's a very good point.

Okay. Couple of things to clarify my idea. Nowhere did you see me saying anything about paying for college in return for service. What they get paid is what they take with them in the form of modifications made to their minds, from the time spent with their heads outside their asses. Their bonus pay is living east of the west coast, west of the east coast, south of Canda and north of Mexico.

OT, see [Link: scyllacharybdis.blogspot.com...] Oct 7 for a list of Texas felony statutes related to Rathergate.

OMG, I cannot believe anyone is in favor of this. Mandatory service = Involuntary servitude = slavery. No one has the right to force any person in this country into a state of slavery of any type. It is abolutely completely unamerican. And justdanny, your description of regimented youth in khakis -- why don't we just call them "brownshirts" and be done with it? This kind of plan, if implemented, would be a giant step towards a fascist dicatorship.

Mandatory...for everyone.

Yeah, right.

Ever been called for jury duty and listened to the reasons of others why they can't serve?

Kerry would have fun trying to pull this off.

Yeah, I know it isnt popular. Yeah, I know nobody forced the entirely volunteer Armed Forces to join.

Its a new day. You have a large part of the US pop. worrying what the rest of the world thinks about us. You have a large part of our pop. thinking the rest of the world should have a say in how we make decisions. A big ass part of our population who get pissed if you bring up any of the pressing issues of the day. A massive part of our pop. who will not vote and are unconcerned with government, politics, our future. A bunch of our pop. who are so mentally lazy they dont even know theres a war going on. A huge amont of people who think france is cool and Arabs are our friends.

With relatively few exceptions America is slow and fat and soft. If registration wasnt required and poll workers went door to door to collect your vote, and Snoop Doggie Dog was on the ticket, he would make a serious showing in the final numbers. In the insulated years before 911 this country went to sloft fluffy hell. Most Americans believe every spun cockeyed piece of trash the media force feeds them. Most Americans could'nt point out Texas on a map. Most Americans would rather wait for some magical force from beyond the clouds to save them then grab this fucking bull by the horns and save theirself.

After 911, the biggest enemy of the US is complacency. Look at the polls. Look at LGF. Of registered voters, near 50% are falling for John Kerry. A worse undictment against the slovenly state of the US citizen cannot be made.

"Brown shirts" ? "Socialism" ? "fascist dicatorship" ?

Puh-fucking-leeeze. Two years out of a young persons life where they are required to serve this country is by no stretch of an intellectually honest imagination any of those big scary scare words.

(so you think Israel is a socialist fascist dictatorship ?)

Its a new day and apparently some people are so devastatingly asleep at the wheel that they need a wake up call knot yanked out of their ass.

#101
"Okay. Couple of things to clarify my idea. Nowhere did you see me saying anything about paying for college in return for service. What they get paid is what they take with them in the form of modifications made to their minds, from the time spent with their heads outside their asses"

Justdanny look while it may seem like a sound idea to you, logistically its a bunch of baloney. For Israel and the Ukraine they are both dealing with a much smaller population base. In Israel's case they need every single able bodied person they can get to defend their lands. You want to make this idea worthwhile, then give those kids something to look forward other than getting paid several years later. Teach them and pay them and make sure their efforts are worth drafting them for because if you're going to spend the money to train them (and trust me its a lot of of money put into training) then you better be willing to take care of them over time rather than just shafting them with a small dividend paid at the end.

105 justdanny

Puh-fucking-leeeze. Two years out of a young persons life where they are required to serve this country is by no stretch of an intellectually honest imagination any of those big scary scare words.

That's a dangerous plan for one reason. Imagine yourself in a combat zone. You're advancing on some building or what-have-you where enemy forces are holed up. You want the guy who is charged with providing cover-fire for you, and essentially taking responsibility for your life, to be some maniacally radical leftist POS who spends all of his time bitching about how the president is Hitler and how he thinks the war is unjust? I wouldn't.

This is the same reason that when people trot out the argument that we should turn to our prison system in a time of war and "draft" lifers and condemned prisoners for combat service, the idea gets shot down. It's simply a bad idea, because you can't count on someone to do the right thing if they are vehemently opposed to doing it. You can force them to physically be there (if we went with your plan, or the prison thing), but that's ALL you can do.

The only saving grace we may have if Kerry is elected is to have control of congress. That way everything he tries to implement can be vetoed.

Every sense of rationality, reality and survival tells me that Kerry is NO leader. The opposition can scream Kerry Kerry all they want, but a major crisis will see us leaderless in DC. The man is truely an empty suit!

A Kerry administration could pale Carter's. Now I ask, could that be?

Yes, we will mold the lazy slothfull masses into disciplined drones who will make this country great again. We can force them to work for the sake of the Fatherland, because WE are priveleged to know what is best for them. Sieg Heil!

#104 glwing
Remember, both johns are lawyers. For all the excuses they can find reason to dismiss said excuses. I'm sure they can offer alternatives in service. Whether it's cleaning the catboxes for old ladies or manning the phones for a crisis hotline (with ties to DNC), they can find way for people to serve.
I do like Heinlein's idea for citizenship. Although the biggest problem in implementing that would be the MSM.
After all they consider themselves part of the elite classes via their caring (that's why they're jounalists) and would scream bloody murder if they didn't get the right to vote. How many of the MSM actually served in the military? And I don't mean going in and getting kicked out like Rather. Damned few I'm sure.

Of course Scary Kerry would call for a draft...he will have to after all the soldiers of clintons era get the hell out...

Who would be doing this job of national service for tuition?

That would apply to the middle class. The truly wealthy can afford the best colleges --those at the lower income levels already get "FREE" tuition, grants and scholarships based entirely on financial need and they pay nothing back.

So it is really a proposal for the "middle class" the group he at the same time defines as "the rich" in other contexts.

From the Way Back Machine, you can also see that Kerry has apparently decided to soften his stance on recruiting for the military he no longer supports ROTC on the college campus. The following from Kerry's Feb 2004 web page is apparently missing from his page of Oct 8.

"Recruiting More Americans to the Military
The highest form of service is military service. America's military is having trouble recruiting and is increasingly relying on the reserves for active duty. John Kerry believes we must change that. The complicated missions we face and technologies we use depend on it. In a Kerry Administration, no university that receives federal aid will be allowed to ban the ROTC from their campus, except for religious reasons. And the ROTC scholarship program will be adequately funded so that students can attend the college of their choice. John Kerry will also make modernizing our GI benefits a top priority, because no program has been more successful increasing educational opportunities for veterans while also providing an incentive for the best and brightest to make a career out of military."
[Link: web.archive.org...]

# 61 justdanny

Nationalize everydamnthing!!! Are you nuts?

Coming late to the thread (as usual).
I don't see this a militaty draft, afterall this is a man who hates the military. I see this as a continuation of the Clinton idea of Americorps. These unfortunate kids would be required to work as aides in inter-city schools, head start programs, public health departments, soup kitchens, ect. In other words, every govt funded social program would have 'interns' (conscripts). This would greatly influence their career choices, and those who choose the free college tution option would be encouraged to choose a degree in related field (social work, psychology, teacher). It would also insure a more throughly indoctrinated worker.

#119
My point exactly.
My family has hosted exchange students from both Poland and Ukraine. I know exactly what your talking about.

American Infidel

Don't know if you or anyone else has seen the new video from JibJab. Here's the link.
[Link: atomfilms.sho...]
Click on the "Watch Film" on the left hand side.
It's as good or better than their first one.
You'll love Senator (Gone) Lightweight.

#121,

Re: JibJab's latest

So who's the guy leaping around and asking "Are they gay?"?

(BTW, having the terrorists holding up the Kerry/Edwards sign was outstanding.)

Thank you all for this Blog, so much info so little time!

123 Dar ul Harb
I think that guy you mention is the Governor of New Jersey who was recently outed.

"Really Old Europe" has to love this idea

Im Dienst der Vereinigten Staaten von Amerika, die Kerryjugend macht diesen Reich stärker zu Hause, und respektiert in der Welt

Why is AllahPundit accepting advertising from a Syrian store that mocks the US? Directly under Ann Coulter's ad, there is an ad for "Aleppo Soap." The ad proclaims it's selling a Syrian product, and when you click on the link, you a page that lists the reasons to buy Aleppo Soap, including:

You are buying from the only US company that IS MAKING A DIFFERENCE by offering the highest quality goods made by GOOD PEOPLE in a place the US Government calls the "Axis of Evil." Why buy into negativity, ignorance and arrogance when you could buy Aleppo Soap instead?
([Link: www.77market.com)...]

Why shouldn't we buy Aleppo Soap? Probably for the same reasons we shouldn't buy anything from a state that is not only comitted to Israel's destruction, but also funds and harbors the offices and headquarters its worst enemies.

AllahPundit should cease accepting their advertising dollars and if this is simply an ad placed by BlogAds he should demand it be taken off.

OT:

I urge everyone to contact major news outlets and demand to know why the Duelfer report story is not being given the massive coverage it deserves. Here's an example email I just sent to Reuters:

I have long trusted Reuters news for level-headed, fact-filled reporting with no spin. But I am extremely concerned by the complete lack of interest in Charles Duelfer's and the Iraq Survey Group's damning report detailing Saddam Hussein's WMD program and successful bribing of major UN powers to let sanctions against Iraq slide. This is major, major news, and it saddens me that the only people who hear about it are those who frequent the editorial seas of the blogosphere. I hope you will try to give this story the international attention that it deserves.

I want to see China, Russia, and France answer to the their horrendous behavior, and Kerry not to be able to ignore the threat that was Hussein any longer. Please help out, lizards!

Bush needs to pound one point home tonight: "Lawyering is NOT Leading."

Kerry needs to be painted red with this. It will stick for the world to see. Kerry's not running for President, he's running for Lawyer In Chief.

Aren't Dems whining that our currently enrolled VOLUNTARY national guard servicepeople who presumably received college tuition & pay have to serve in a war, or more than two weeks a year?

Or is doling out tuition & pay bennies the whole point of Democrat "service?"

I can't keep up with their definitions of service, war, just war, the right war, the wrong war, etc. (And let the French fight for us.)

Hey, If you don't like my ideas, don't vote for me.

The conditions/ideals layed out in the Constitution in my estimation are 99% perfect. (Thats right, nearly perfect. I know about nearly perfect.)

And if the whole planet was in favor of a majority of these most grand ideals, they would work perfectly on the global stage. If you have your eyes wide open to the entire world, you'll see the majority of the planet is working toward something very different. The majority of the planet is working toward something nearing the exact opposite of our Constitution.

So now in this global context we have no choice but to begin to shore up this soft centered flakey exterior that the average US citizen insists on becoming. Mind you most Americans set as a goal for theirselfs and their families, the creation of a life that requires them to be thin skinned incompetent targets on this new world stage. Precisely the easy targets this blossoming predator rich environment is looking to crush.

If planet earth were the average American high school, the US would be the hyper socialized quarterback of the footbal team, getting good grades and all the best booty available. And the rest of the school (planet) would be ring worm infested scratchy scalped special ed. students, wearing trench coats and plotting Columbine-like forays onto 'we interupt this program' news bulletins.

Project onto my ideas what you want. Attach to them all the scary scare terms you want. Interject all the great disasters of warped idealogy into them. But the fact is, somehow, we have to beaf up this largely weak kneed giant. We have to grow an understanding in the masses that the cost of freedom and liberty and democracy at this functioning working level, has to have some input by every US citizen.

Okay let me clarify something about my ideas. After the required service is over, they can go sit at the park all day and listen to Britney and Justine on their headphones, smoke weed and throw their lives away. But lodged in their minds forever will be the experience, their indoctrination into what it costs to afford them that option.

#52 Iron Fist

I'm surprised it took so long for somebody to make the connection between Kerry's proposal and slavery. That was the first thing that crossed my mind when I read the Kerry-website excerpt.

Kerry is also on record as saying that he is in favor of military conscription. So why hasn't anyone in the media pointed this out, or asked him about that?