Alert the Hague!

It will never show up in French media

Charles:
Any change of a link being posted to the first half of this video? I tried to download it last night but had too many problems with the server. Thanks.

I'm sure that Chirac will be arresting his soldier and presenting him to the world court.

I'm sure that there will be a world wide demand for an investigation.

I sure that the UN will investigate.

I'm sure that there will be protesters in the streets demanding an end to frenchism.

I'm sure ... oh never mind this is the french, they define what is right and good in the world.

/sarcasm

we will see this incident brought up before the ICC, you betcha.

any second now...

Where's the NBC "Embedded " Kevin Sites ??? Quick, propaganda-boy, you're loosing a great story. Run, Kevin, run !!! Hopefully NOT faster than a speeding bullet !!!

The Marines shot one too few, in my book.

Seems the Great French---Heroes of the tainted world, aren't too noble. The explanation should be real interesting in the days to come. Since LGF has hit the News with this, ITS NEWS !!! OFFICIALLY !!! Go Charles !!! Go Marines !!!

U.S. Marine shoots a "wounded insurgeant" playing dead: A war crime as horrible as My Lai that should be brought before the Hague.

French soldier shoots unarmed civilians in broad daylight: Business as usual and nothing that the Hague should concern itself over.

Where's Kofi and the UN? Where's Human Rights Watch and Amnesty international? And what will Michael Moore say? Oh, right- it wasn't Americans or Israelis.

Why doesnt anyone holler about the french atrocities (ie taking out the ivory coast air force) in their postcolonial interventions?

because thats what the goddamn french do!

they are otherwise occupied shooting civilians

they are such full-of-shitniks!

Ruthless as only the cowards can be.

The link doesn't work for me. Anybody else have problems?

video is a little slow and jumpy but it is working

Figures. About the only people the Frenchies would dare shoot at would be the unarmed. If they come across anybody who could fight back, they run away.

Thay's why we have had to bail them out of war after war. Next time, we should remember how much they helped us against the Iraqi terrorists before we rush in to save their bacon.

Still downloading it, so I haven't seen it.

BUT...

Let's not forget the favorite trick of putting gunmen behind unarmed people, just in order to provoke shooting and catch exactly this kind of footage.

And let's not forget that "unarmed" is a relative term; plenty of people have been killed by nothing more than hands and feet, and even a well-defended site with loads of firepower at hand can be over-run.

What I'm saying is, let's give these soldiers the same benefit of a doubt we'd give our own. Their job is as hard as the one our guys have.

This footage will go to everyone I know.

Fuck the MSM! Let's us minions force the issue out into the open.

Press response:

[chirp ... chirp ... chirp]

A) Cote d'Ivoire is about #28 on the Sad Places in the World list, just above the beached whales in Baja.

B) Jimmy Carter hasn't been there this week.

C) Nothing about this can be pinned on GWB or his administration.

Move along. Nothing to see here.

trying the link -- static -- stacatto -- no bueno -- gotta friend living in Dakar, Senegal -- wish I had a good link to send her ...

Fred Fred

Until our government screams and stomps its feet and pounds their fists on podiums without letup, and cancels billion-dollar contracts, this will continue. But Bush has decided not to take on the French or other Euniks, so we will have to live with the consequences.

#9 Megan

Where's Kofi?

Counting his Food for oil earnings of course!

#15 Robert Crawford...

Admirable attitude, but...

FUCK the FRENCH! I will give them the SAME benefit of doubt that France has given us since WW2...

To compare this to the Marine in Flallujah is preposterous...

#15 Robert Crawford - I didn't see a single weapon or any "agitation" from the crowd... just a bunch of people milling around, even during the shots.

This was a slaughter. There is something really wrong with the world when THESE assholes sit in judgement of our policies.

When will we end the charade and deal with the French the way they NEED to be dealt with?

Oh. My. God.

When was this video shot?

Naturally, I haven't seen any news stories covering this incident.

CHARLES!

PLEASE get this video disseminated thru any and all contacts you might have!!!

Just saw the video and...

It looked like the shooting of unarmed, unprovoked civilians to me...

WooHoo!! The French Are One Of US!!

Oh Wait...

Does this mean they were fighting the terrorists?

Is this just a bunch of "Bad Apples" in the French army? Or is it a Govt. order?

What does this mean?

OT - This is absolutely despicable. MSM has absolutely no shame, no ethics and no sense of duty to America and its servicemen. May they rot in hell.

NRO "The Corner" post by Jim Robbins

FOR ONE WHO GAVE ALL [Jim Robbins]
MSNBC's web site has a picture of a dead US soldier, gunned down entering a room during urban combat in Iraq. The soldier is lying in a large pool of his own blood. It is a very disturbing image. Army policy states that such pictures may not be used when the soldier is identifiable, out of respect for the family, as well as the soldier. One can't make out the features very well, but it took me about a minute looking at casualty reports on DefenseLink to find out who had been killed in that circumstance on that day. I know the Army is receiving complaints about MSNBC's actions but because the network is exploiting a loophole in the policy, the Army can't do much about it. Sources at the Pentagon say it is up to market forces to make the network see reason and take down this offensive image. I already wrote my letter to MSNBC -- let's help them understand the error of their ways.
Posted at 11:27 PM

If this were the US perpetrating this hienous act (unlikely), the worldwide "outrage" would be manifested in demonstrations in every country (organized by the leftists/anarchists, of course) of thousands of people marching, carrying flags, etc... and front page stories in every major newspaper, lead stories on the news networks.

When the French do it, however... nary a whisper of condemnation.

Link Here?

It's big even on cable modem...

!!!

Am I the last person to see this???

What a HOOT!

Iowahawk on Fox News!

Same link, sorry...

OT
This is a movie that everyone who reads this site must see. It's called Voices of Iraq. It's a documentary that is basically the antidote to Fahrenhiet 9-11. I would almost go as far to say that is the anti-antidote to the movies that followed the movies that came after it. Even though I liked FahrenHYPE 9-11 and Celsius 41.11. This movie is better than both of them because it's the thoughts and words coming right the Iraqis themselves. Stop reading this post and click the link to go find out more about this movie.

Later

How can you worry about these people when the US is putting people in Gitmo just for practicing their religious duties of trying to kill Americans?!?!/ACLU, ANSWER

As I say in another post days ago... If an american or an israeli soldier kill a crazy jihad terrorist armed with bombs and machines guns, that it would be a "genocide", but if a french soldier kill an Ivory Coast civilian armed with an stick, that would be "self defense"

¿Who understand the U.N.?

#29 Lady of Shalott (ylreveb)
That came from Joanne Jacobs, she's how I found LGF!

FYI, that mpeg file takes over 5 minutes to download on a high-speed connection. Also, it is very graphic toward the end - very graphic. I wasn't sure what was happening, because there's no narration. But a Google search turned up this article that seems to fit what happened.

French Troops Fire on Crowd

Some context via Metafilter...

Some context for this video:

Ivory Coast (Cote d'Ivoire) has been extremely unstable since 1999, when Robert Guei took power from Henrie Bedie in a coup. Guei alienated many people from northern Cote d'Ivoire - primarily Muslims, many who had immigrated from Burkina Faso - by banning Alassane Ouattara from the 2000 presidential elections, because Ouattara had been born in Burkina Faso.

Guei lost power in an uprising in 2000, to Laurent Gbagbo. Gbagbo continued anti-northern rhetoric and kept Ouattara out of the political process. (Ouattara spent most of 2001 in exile, in France and Gabon.) In September 2002, Northerners in the army rebelled, plunging the country into civil war. These rebels ended up controlling the north of the country, and base themselves in Bouake, the largest northern city. Gbagbo's government controls the south, including Abidjan, the largest city and Yamousoukro, the capital.

Civil war continues, off and on, into 2004. There are a number of ceasefires, an attempt at a power-sharing government, and, as recently as a few months ago, real hope that the situation could be resolved. As of March 2004, there's a large contingent of UN peacekeepers - some African (largely Ghanaian), some French - maintaining a buffer zone between rebel and government held areas. (More info available from BBC, a timeline, and a country profile.)

On Saturday, November 6th, 2004, at least one Ivorian bomber attacked a detachment of French peacekeepers, stationed in Bouake. Eight Frenchman and one American aid worker were killed. The Ivorian government claimed that it had not been targeting the French - they'd been targeting rebels and had miscalculated. The French responded by ordering their troops to destroy the Ivoirian airforce - two fighters, two bombers and three helicopters - which they did, on November 7th. (BBC story here.

Gbagbo took to the airwaves and - accurately or not - announced that the French were supporting the northern rebels and attempting to overthrow his government to install a neo-colonial state. Mobs took to the streets in Abidjan, destroying French-owned businesses and burning French schools. The French began evacuating citizens - there were over 20,000 French citizens living in Cote d'Ivoire five months ago; there are estimated to be fewer than 3,000 today. (Article in Christian Science Monitor about Europeans evacuating from Cote d'Ivoire.)

On November 9th, a confusing set of events happened at the Hotel Ivoire. Peacekeepers were protecting a number of French citizens who had taken refuge at the luxury hotel. A large group of anti-French demonstrators had assembled outside. A rumor was spread that the troops protecting the civilians within the hotel planned to march on the presidential palace and overthrow the government. Violence broke out. It is unclear whether peacekeepers, Ivoirian troops or armed protesters fired first. It is also unclear how many people were killed. The Gbagbo government claims that peacekeepers fired into the crowd and that at least sixty civilians were killed. The French claim that Gbagbo loyalists fired first and that Ivoirian security forces returned fire, and that seven were killed. (Reports from the Boston Globe, the New York Times and the BBC.)

It is my best guess that the video we're seeing here is from the incident on November 9th. It is not at all clear who is firing shots, nor is it clear whether it's a single party, or a gun battle. Clearly civilians were injured and killed - which is tragic - but the video does not present evidence, to my eyes, that French peacekeepers (rather than Ivoirian security forces or loyalist citizens) fired the shots.

Maybe Mendel the Canadian would like to charge Chirac with war crimes. He could arrest him the next time he comes to Quebec for summer vacation.

It is worth pointing out that the Gbagbo government has been working hard to portray the recent conflict as a French "invasion" of Cote d'Ivoire. Reporters Sans Frontiere (yes, they're French, but they're also one of the most respected journalist rights organizations in the world) argues that the Gbagbo government is using the TV and radio to incite people to riot, quite possibly with this footage, as the footage is hosted by the Ivoirian embassy in the US. Human Rights Watch is calling on Abidjan to rein in militias and ensure that the current anti-French violence doesn't escalate into anti-Northern violence.

My point is simply this: the situation in Cote d'Ivoire is extremely complicated right now. It's grossly unfair to accuse French peacekeepers of committing atrocities without clear evidence. It's quite possible that this tragic footage is the result of shots fired by people other than French peacekeepers. The Gbagbo government very much hopes that people will draw that conclusion - it's extremely unclear to me that that is the correct conclusion to draw.

I am disappointed, though not entirely surprised, that the discussion of this incident on MeFi should turn into a discussion of Iraq. Kablam invites as much, slamming the French for their alleged "moral high ground". It would be far more respectful of the people involved in the incident if we discussed it in terms of the history of Cote d'Ivoire, rather than as a deeply imperfect mirror of American involvement in Iraq.
posted by obruni at 6:38 PM PST on November 20

Sorry for the split quote

Use the power of the internet.
send this out far & wide.
Don't forget to include a request that your recipients also forward it.

Here's the message I sent:

"We've seen how the French have behaved towards us in our attempt to liberate Iraq.
We've seen the 5th column American major media incessatly malign our troops.

Well, now let's see what questions the media will ask about this incredible butchery of unarmed Ivory Coast civilians in broad daylight by armored French troops.

Warning...very gory scenes but Americans NEED to see this."

Linki

#29 Lady of Shalott (ylreveb)

"Cracker" culture is spreading across blue America like trucker hats

Geeez...makes me proud to be an American ("Cracker") Trucker, wait a sec...on the other hand...isn't "Cracker" a derogatory term just like the "N" word and other inflammatory terms?

100mb?! think i'll just take your word for it.

#25 balisong

WooHoo!! The French Are One Of US!!

FOAD

Fact is, you can't show a video of American soldiers mowing down civilians. This, despite our military being engaged worldwide constantly. We are better than France, in every way.

But...

This is the greatest French military victory since they sunk Greenpeace's Rainbow Warrior in a New Zealand port during the mid-1980's.

#10 AtlasShrugged

COOL nom d'board! My favorite novel of all time.

:-)

They must limit their bandwidth or too many are hitting it right now. I'm only getting 27kb/sec.

#15:

And let's not forget that "unarmed" is a relative term; plenty of people have been killed by nothing more than hands and feet, and even a well-defended site with loads of firepower at hand can be over-run.

I believe the British learned this lesson from the Zulu in 1879...

What a bunch of horsesh**!

It would be far more respectful of the people involved in the incident if we discussed it in terms of the history of Cote d'Ivoire, rather than as a deeply imperfect mirror of American involvement in Iraq.

I guess this is one of those nuanced positions that sKeery was always talking about tht I never understood.

#34 reaganite

Who knows, if Iowahawk develops a large following, he could constitute an entire second front!

#42 Beagle

Way to cling on to my snarkiest toiletpaper of comments!!

How about addressing what this means, like I asked?

I'm still waiting to download ALL of the video clips and I haven't seen any yet... but there's more at that site than just the one vid:

[Link: radioci.embaci.com...]

Several jpgs of clothing and ID are there - I don't know what that is all about. Other video clips of probably the same incident (judging by the filenames) are there.

Check out the file dates though - they seem to have all been posted on Nov 10 or Nov 11.

Why are we only hearing about these clips and pics now?

Hmmm.

#35 Prosqtrixi

Thanks.

#36 balisong

Sorry, but I find "context" hard to accept for the wanton shooting of unarmed civilians.

WooHoo!! The French Are One Of US!!

heh, didn't notice that until #42 posted..

If Chirac had a conscience
what would it say?
and would you want to hear it
if hearing meant that
you would have to believe
in things like Iraq and Osama, the Saudis, and all the bombers...

/weak, i know
//listening to 'one of us' cover by savage garden

#48 FOADsong

On topic:
No Blood For Chocolate!

#50

Sorry, but I find "context" hard to accept for the wanton shooting of unarmed civilians.

Agreed, but at least they have a rationale.

The problem is, it's more complex than you can fit on a bumper sticker. so people don't want to know more than they "Need" to...

I believe the British learned this lesson from the Zulu in 1879...

Isandalwanda (sp?). Right.

For the people jumping my case: get a grip.

BenJeremy:

I didn't see a single weapon or any "agitation" from the crowd... just a bunch of people milling around, even during the shots.

I didn't see ANY footage of what was going on around the soldiers before the shooting. It looked like random crowd shots -- just somebody out covering a rally/march -- until the shooting started. I don't think there's ANYTHING in that video that can tell us what happened before the shooting.

Tats66:

To compare this to the Marine in Flallujah is preposterous...

I don't believe I made that comparison. In fact, I didn't. Don't put words in my mouth, thank you.

balisong:

Is this just a bunch of "Bad Apples" in the French army? Or is it a Govt. order?

Or maybe it's just a 20-year-old kid scared out of his mind. Maybe he made a horrible mistake by pulling the trigger, or maybe he did the right thing in response to a threat.

People, there are very few who despise the French more than I do, but I don't extend that to the poor foot slogger who's out on the sharp end, holding the shit stick by the wrong end. I'm pretty sure the movie "Rules of Engagement" has gotten some discussion on LGF -- this is that kind of situation.

Let's not lynch the soldiers based on the flag on the arms. Leave that to the sophisticated French.

#52 beagle

Is this something WE USA'ians should let continue?

Or is it just something we can shake our fists at the French for?

Sail bong/A LIB SONG

..no blood for chocolate.

Did they shoot this much at the Germans in 1940?

#31 frankwolftown

You are a couple of weeks late with that.
Posted on LGF 10/25/04, 10/29/04, 11/9/04 and many others

#54 Robert Crawford...

Maybe not word for word, but in my opinin implied...

At the very least: Comparing the French "soldiers" to ours??

The job they are doing in the Ivory Coast compares to our boys in Iraq?

Puh-lease...

(also, I don't like chocolate... it makes my fillings "tingle" wierd...)

(kinda like chewing on tinfoil...)

still downloading the video. also lost last 8 months of saved pages, essays, news stories etc... around 10 gb trying to get it back. wish there were zip files of all vdh's essays and the faith freedom essays. blah gotta stop editing the registry while drinking.

The Freepers have dissected this video and its first half, too. One of them also posted stills from the video and blew them up. You can see French soldiers on the ground near the tank firing on the crowd. There is also a sniper in one of the tall buildings.

#53

Of course they can rationalize it.. as we've seen in the last 65 years, almost anything can be "rationalized".

Complex? I don't think so. This is a crime. Murder.

These poor people weren't rioting. They were chanting, singing - it seemed almost like a party. Until the shooting started.

There is no way for me to effectively view this video on my smoke-signal dialup, but what little I can see is not very illuminating.

Bottom line, I don't care if they're French. I can't tell from the video if the right thing was done or not and I ain't bashing them just for the pleasure it would give me.

And it would give me alot.

#64 Agreed

Does this mean we should invade the Ivory Coast, or France?

Where's Kofi? Chir-aq's faux-outrage? Where's famous French morality, tolerance and temperance? The Hague? The UN? The EU? The ICC? Human Rights Watch? Amnesty International? Doctors Sans Borders? Where are you all?...silent...invisible...inert...impotent...hyp ocritical...

That's pretty disturbing stuff towards the end.

Once again the French have shown their military prowess.

Aside from mowing down unarmed civilians, WTF is France doing in Ivory Coast anyway?

Is Jacques Chirac the ANTI CHRIST?

Are Tibetans Chinese?, A Tibetan search for his identity

There are too many dead women for this to be a result of a mistake. If there were shooters amidst the crowd, don't you think the people would have reacted to that and run to distance themself from the shooter(s)? Instead, it appears the crowd was taken by surprize. It looks like for what ever reason, the french just started shooting at the crowd indiscrimiantely. It seems like most of the victims are women.

On double preview...

You really can't tell who'se shooting at who...

Kinda "Blair Witch" that way...

If you can't tell who is shooting at who, I suggest you go read the Freeper thread and look at the stills they have posted.

#72 I really don't look on their threads much... metafitler yeah, KOS and Whatever else, no...
If I want to get into an arguement, or heated intelectual discussion, it's much easier here...

when a similar event like this happened in a certain city in massachusetts in 1770 it was called the BOSTON MASSACRE--btw why are these guys on terrorist watchlists making it onto flights and getting to maine--i thought we solved that problem--do we need another shoebomber incident before we get it right and stop them at the gate--sheesh

#54 Robert Crawford:

It's not their soldiers we want to lynch. It's the guys who ordered them into Ivory coast to begin with and the guys who ordered the destruction of the ivorian air force. After all, if China can comprehend the concept of targetting errors why can't France?

there were over 20,000 French citizens living in Cote d'Ivoire five months ago; there are estimated to be fewer than 3,000 today

November is turning out to be one of the more uplifting months politically: Bush re-elected, Fallujah taken down, Arafat kicks bucket, Powell leaves State, UN corruption starts unraveling, Frogs kicked out of Ivory Coast, Iran and North Korea publicly put on notice.

And we still have 10 days to go.

why can't i get the video

just blank page, but computer working?

Why no video? 100MB's Takes a long time...

#72

Well, there is where you will find the stills starting at post # 335.

Well, I watched the whole thing. Can't tell who was doing the shooting, some of which was full auto.

The French Army was certainly there. and it appears that the crowd thinks they did it.

At the end a UN car is burning.

What is really strange is that the crowd hangs around after the shooting starts.

Rivera makes me wanna PUKE- he is as annoying as Hitlery and Blather

This stinks- I am getting nothing on the video. Literally a blank screen. WAAAHH!!

Okay ... I've got all the clips and pics now - thanks to a great download utility.

Check out NetTransport. You can crank up how many threads you want to connect to a site with and decrease your download time according.

Net Transport

(lifted from Iraq the model)

Stupid British!
I heard what Mr. Chirac said few days ago and read about it everywhere I turn my head to. At first, it was something I felt I shouldn’t even bother to listen to. It was something like what Al Jazeera keep showing us or what Arab leaders say all the time. But again this was a president of one of the most advanced and civilized countries in our times. It wasn’t Kaddafi or Assad and it made me sad and furious.

The French government keep surprising me with their intentionally stupid and vicious arguments and I don’t know what to say about it or if it’s even necessary to say something at all. But then I’m an Iraqi citizens and these people are taking about Iraq and usually how the war brought nothing good to Iraq or the world, and I just can’t stay silent about it. I know there’s almost no chance that you’ll read my words Mr. Chirac, but it doesn’t matter, as I’m not writing for you anyway. You live in a different world.

In the past, I used to swallow my anger and frustration because I could get killed if I messed up with one of Saddam’s personal friends, but now Saddam is gone and I’m not afraid and I won’t stay silent anymore. This is a difference Mr. Chirac, and it’s a great one, probably just to me and the rest of Iraqis but not to you, and you just have to understand that it’s not all about you and your European dream which no one want to steal from you by the way.

The world is certainly not a better place after the war Mr. Chirac, but that’s your world, while our world, Iraqis as well as tens of millions of oppressed people everywhere who are dying for some help, is certainly MUCH better now, and I’m sure the Americans and the British world as well as most countries (including yours) is better and safer and will keep getting better. However I agree with you, as your world, your own personal world, the world of your fellow corrupt politicians in France, Russia, Germany, China and the stinking UN, your fortune and your influence is definitely suffering. I’m even surprised that you ‘saw’ that Saddam’s departure was positive “to a certain extent”, and I can’t wonder why is that! Is it because it left you with some bills you don’t have to pay?!

Is my language too offensive?! Not as half as offensive and irritating as yours and I will NEVER apologize, not even after you apologize and pay the Iraqis back all the money you have stolen from us in return for supporting your partner, Saddam and keeping him in charge for few more years.

You see, your problem and what separate you from men like Tony Blair is that you look only for what you might gain, and again “you” is not the French people, but rather you in person and the bunch of hypocrites that so sadly control the French people and manipulate them through lies and silly arguments. You never cared what would happen to Iraqis and the rest of the world had Saddam stayed in power, while Tony Blair did. Do you know why? Because he and the British government with all the brave British people live in our world, while you don’t.

Stupid British! Why should they care for us, America or their own kids when they can do exactly like you; take advantage of America’s need, blackmail her, support Saddam without taking much risk and gain billions of dollars.

Stupid British!Haven’t they learned from WW2 when you got your country back and even decided the fate of other nations on victory even though half of you made peace with the Nazis!? You certainly don’t owe the British and the Americans anything for that, as it was just their own stupidity not to do the math and see how much would they gain. Their lands weren’t invaded and the Nazis were trying to make a peace with them, yet they refused and fought as hard as men and women can fight to free your country for you, so that your troops could march victoriously in Paris! And you dare say that the US doesn’t repay favors!??

If you don’t like the world after Saddam, and if you miss him that much, you can keep living in your own world and we won’t bother you...at all

# 66
Does this mean we should invade the Ivory Coast, or France?

People should become aware of this. Now that Charles has posted it a lot of folks have and will.

It certainly puts the French talk (esp. WRT Israeli "atrocities") vs. action into pretty stark perspective.

I still don't know why you said (above) that there is "context", "rationale" for this or that

The problem is, it's more complex than you can fit on a bumper sticker. so people don't want to know more than they "Need" to...

What are you tryin to say?

This article at Reuters AlertNet
[Link: www.alertnet.org...]

gives a pretty good picture of what's going on with the Ivory Coast.

Personally, I don't trust the French with anything. Look what they've done with the UN "Oil for Food" scam.

So, I suggest we remain suspicious and inquisitive about the intentions, actions and motives of the French...

The Ivory Coast civilians in the video do NOT look threatening at all.

Check out the long video of that Marine/ terrorist shooting, shows reporter asking terrorist what happened?

[Link: www.unit731me...]

20 minutes now, still blank screen!

AAARRRGGH!

Anyhoo-- WHAT ARE THE FRNECH DOING IN IVORY COAST? AND WHAT ON EARTH MADE THEM START MILITARY ACTION? WHY IS THIS BEING IGNORED?

very disturbing
now what bothers me the most if not for the net and this blog i might never have seen the video or read about it. if this was the US it would have been protests worldwide and it would have been the lead story across the board on the news [so far just a blurb on fox]. the lack of interest by the msm is what is most disturbing.

Insult the French with twisted logic. It's more fun than calling them anglo-saxon curses under the guise of French expletives!

Barbara AAA-1
All cowards are evil people.
All French people are cowards.
Thus all French people are evil people.

Barbara AAA-1
All moonbats are Frenchmen.
All pedophiles are moonbats.
Thus all moonbats are pedophiles.

Barbara AAA-1
All moonbats are pedophiles.
All Frenchmen are moonbats
Thus all Frenchmen are pedophiles.

Camestres AEE-2
All dog-rapers are leftist nuts.
No sane people are leftist nuts.
No sane people are dog-rapers.

Barbara AAA-1
All leftist nuts are dog-rapers.
All Frenchmen are leftist nuts.
Thus all Frenchmen are dog-rapers.

The Government of the Ivory Coast is planning to take legal action against French troops accused of shooting civilians. The Ivorian Government is taking its case to the International Court of Justice.

Ivory Coast accused French troops of killing up to 60 people during an anti-French demonstration in the commercial capital, Abidjan, last week.

Human Rights Minister Victorine Wodie says the perpetrators must be punished. But France says its soldiers were not responsible for the killings.

[Link: www.abc.net.au...]

We're discussing this over at War-Forums.com for anyone interested in jumping in. (Be warned, there be moonbats lurking round those parts)

What's the scoop on the mamzerim taken off the plane in Maine? I can't find anything about it on the net.

Ya, kinda makes you wonder why you dont see or hear even a peep of this on the MSM. I mean you cant tell who is shooting, but those that were hit do not appear to be the combatant type and before hand I could not see any weapons in the crowd.

Hopefully it will get out and some more people will look into it. I don't care about doing it for the sake of bashing France, my opinion of them could not get any lower, but I would like to see something done and have it looked into to prevent such an obvious and useless loss of life.

Has anyone tried corresponding with some of the previously mentioned charity type groups?

OT: NYC restaurant maitre'd disses the Bush twins.

YOOO HOOO!!! where did everybody go???

The MSM does not cover the conflicts in Africa, they seem to be fixated on the Middle East, N Korea and occasionally Russia.

So while Africa has civil wars ending up with hundreds of thousands murdered, you only hear about the spread of AIDs down there and why worry about AIDS if a Rwanda Kill Squad comes to your town.

The French have carte blanche in Africa as far as the MSM is concerned, they are much to busy telling us how many Palestinians died today from Israeli gunfire, how many wounded insurgents were "killed" by our Marines. Keeping tabs on Arafat's demise. Nukes in Iran.

Very disturbing

In one part towards the end, the video shows a dead woman with her head and left shoulder blown off!

/ Taking it all in

Charles,

I support you and your forum, I have since the first time I came here, but Please next time, a simple warning of the graphic nature of the video. I often read through LGF while my kids are in the room. In my humble opinion, a 10 year old boy and a 11 year old girl don't need to see that (they didn't, its late right now)

Pretty hypocritical: If Frenchmen do it to blacks in Africa for no real reason, then it ain't news I guess!

If all I have is a blank screen, is it still loading, and I just need to be patient???

Grimnir Svithrirsson, the thread is titled:

French Troops Shoot Unarmed Civilians

What did you think it was going to be, a Barney video? You're an adult -- use your discretion.

#94 Yehudit

Amazing. Ya think the restaurant would have applauded and done shots if the snot-nosed bigot had said "we don't serve your kind in here" to Dr. Rice?

eeevil

I'm here! Was stunned for a moment in that the sound I thought was wind is a fast moving thunderstorm dumping a bunch of rain!!

#4 daughter just got in -- Siobhan and her friends were just foiled in trying to TP another friend's house.

HEY DARLEEN!!

SOunds like sceary weather!

D.C.-bound passenger on no-fly list

US Customs officials have detained two passengers from an Air France flight bound for Dulles International Airport near Washington.

Transportation Security Administration officials say the plane was diverted to Bangor, Maine because they discovered that one of the passengers is on the U-S no-fly list. The plane eventually flew on to Dulles - arriving more than two hours late.

T-S-A spokeswoman Yolanda Clark says the other person detained was traveling with the banned passenger. Both are in the custody of local law enforcement in Bangor.

She says T-S-A is investigating why the passenger was allowed to board the plane in Paris.

The French again.

Darleen (#102),

Ya think the restaurant would have applauded and done shots if the snot-nosed bigot had said "we don't serve your kind in here" to Dr. Rice?

Yes.

And it won't be long until it happens.

Freemans, tuesday night the 16th of nov. the bush twins , along with 2 massive secret service men, tried to have dinner. they were told by the maitre'd that they were full and would be for the next 4 years. upon hearing, the entire restaurant cheered and did a round of shots... it was amazing!!!

Either the restaurant is tiny or the maitre'd has a very loud voice.

Still trying to download it on high speed connection. I've tried every link on the thread so far. Wish there was a way to condense it or break it up into chunks.

Initially, I confirmed to myself that the French and their defenders are hypocritical bastards. Even so, individual soldiers in stressful situations do a lot of things that we can forgive because we are responsible for putting them there. It is not an easy situation... they don't get a free pass for anything but we should give them a lot of leeway.

The real test of the worth of a society is how they handle the situation. We did the right thing and we are investigating whether our soldier really acted reasonably. Will the French do the same or sweep it all under the rug?

The left wing press has already failed the decency test. They have ignored this story as far as I can tell. It is like the Swift Boat Vet's story... they just can't bring themselves to cover it and let their audience know about it. They jump on that prison abuse scandal and covered it from evey angle for weeks. My bet is that this story will be developed only on the blogosphere, like the Dan Rather forged document story. In the end, the MSM will have to cover it.

MSM will probably blame Bush

Geepers

Even as the LLL in print or on the net feel comfortable and righteous in their racism towards Dr. Rice, I don't think someone in the flesh is going to be comfortable doing it.

#107 zulubaby

Here's Freemans.

The uber-hip nosh on affordable old-country Americana at this discreet alleyway eatery.

Oh geez...how fun... dKos-idiots approve of the bigotry themselves!

The President's kids are grown adults now. By campaigning for their father, they contributed to his re-election. Fuck them.

Darleen (#111),

LOL.

The Scene

Down a dark, shadowy alley just off Bowery, the handsome, scruffy-faced men and understatedly glamorous women of the Lower East Side gather to drink wine, crowding around antique wood tables. Worn plank floors and painted cement walls fit with moose, elk and other assorted taxidermy, giving the place a quirky edge, as do the tattoed, waifish servers

I think most people call that seedy.

Jock Strap and company sure know how to handle this war stuff. They are at their best when running...the other way that is...ooo laaa laaa, another French victory.

Maitre'd was French, non?

Here's another comment from dailykos that I found eminently reasonable:

How would we be reacting if this were Kerry's daughters and a right-leaning establishment in Texas refused them seats at dinner. Would we be claiming it was the their right to do so, or would we be indignant and deeply offended at the act?
I'm betting we would be very offended. And we'd be right. Have things gotten so out of hand politically that we won't eat at each other's tables?

There are so many ways that we should be opposing the republicans. Not talking to them, not eating with them, is not going to accomplish anything but making us look petty and vindictive - which helps them.

...ummm...holy fucking shit...

wtf

/stay calm

Lord bring justice

:|

ploome hineni #117 - If you mean the link to the video of the shooting, it's 100 MB and when I tried to download it, it looked like it was going to take more than 90 min, so I cancelled it. As someone said earlier, I'll take people's word for it.

#116 tweety

Problem is as reasonable as that one voice was, she got in danger of being labeled a "troll" because she wasn't on the "drunk slut twins are fair game fuck them and the hitler dad that begat them" train.

The majority of posters there are just this side of the the DU inmates... What alternative universe are they living in???

Alas, this video only shows that civilans were injured & killed. It doesn't show how or by whom.

ploome,

It dribble through. Took me an hour this morning before Charles linked to it.

Not as dramatic as it sounds. Lots of chanting crowd shots. The French in armored vehicles behind razor wire protecting building (hotel?) Lots of shots being fired, and either the French are completely incompetent or they were aiming not to kill. A few injuries shown afterwards and lots more chanting and dancing.

It could have, should have been a blood bath if they were actually shooting to kill.

Speaking of our Fallujah Marine. There is a petition out for helping him for those interested. Here is the story:
[Link: www.armytimes.com...]

and the petition link: [Link: www.petitiononline.com...]

The phrench do NOT hold a moral candle to our Marines. And, we have some superior support back home = a brass-balls President and some great pajama warriors (who, if met with hostility at their door, would surely, but definitely, win the day)

Let me just remind everyone that Mr. Osiraq, President of the Wepublic of Fwance, stated on Nov. 14 in Marseilles that "[blacks] are naturally happy".

Mf*cking French. I wish them a nice civil war.

Burn mf*cker! Burn!

It occurs to me that the rest of the world might be flipping out about us "unilaterally" using our power, when they must know themselves what their own governments are not only cappable of doing, but actually commit...they put the same faith in *our* government...

...fools...

...brainwashed fools...

...let the media jihad continue...

...move along now...

nothing to see here

*spit*

#120 Darleen. I'm not familiar with the site. Maybe she also isn't. Maybe she was looking for LGF or something similar and she got lost?

OT

SoCal Flash Flooding and Isolated Weak Tornado Alert. Risk is insufficient for Magenta Warning in Yellow Box.

-25C temps at/below 6 km elevation also means hail risk.

Rancho Cucamonga Flood Warning!

San Diego WSR-88D NexRad Doppler Radar

Of course, localized flooding continues across much of eastern Texas, and isolated severe weather today, with a more widespread severe event from Monday afternoon through Tuesday afternoon as the California system heads out to where the air is more warm and humid.

This also begins big winter storm, with heavy snows in Mid-West, and heavy rains East Coast.

Don't you people ever sleep? ;-)

#120 Darleen 11/21/2004 12:06AM PST

What alternative universe are they living in???

LªLªLª land. Lorded over by some dude named Kumbaya.

Or is is some kind of virus? Looks like it. It splits corpus calosum, allowing for cognitive dissonance, and a flow of fluids that are called denile. They cherish sitting side by side, creating a wind tunnel. Easy, breezy...

Risk is insufficient for Magenta Warning in Yellow Box.

Thank heavens for that. ;-)

Amazing footage! NBC gonna run this anytime soon? Seems they love showing "unarmed" people shot. Guess the frenchies have their own problems. Besides, Saddam was paying them off, no sense troubling him with coalition business. But this footage is rank. Libertad indeed...

Live and let live!

#128 Beagle 11/21/2004 12:32AM PST

Don't you people ever sleep? ;-)

Ya forgotten a sarc tag by any chance? :-)

I'm sure we can all hold our collective breath with confidence Jimmy Carter as well as the folks over at Am-Nasty International will jump all over Chirac like a horny toad. No puns intended, as usual.

#108 Miggie

The real test of the worth of a society is how they handle the situation. We did the right thing and we are investigating whether our soldier really acted reasonably. Will the French do the same or sweep it all under the rug?

You are right. This is the crucible.

I've been basing my views on several articles relying on eyewitness testimony. I've read the French unloaded on unarmed crowds with 20mm cannons. But eyewitnesses are often mistaken or agenda-driven.

The overall behavior of the French is not one incident. The conflict raged all over Abidjan for more than a day.

I think I already know the answer. The French will ignore the accusations and destroy any evidence.

Does what I did - or did not - see on this video change anything? ANYTHING? Fwance is - and has always been - a despicable entity. Now, her willingly abject subjugation to the Umma - coupled with her infallible cowardice and perfidity - simply makes her all the more loathsome.

And, yes, she IS FIGHTING for the Muslim North and KILLING the Kafirs of the Christian South. Fwance must always obeys her Islamic Overlords. Always. Does anything suggest otherwise?

Saw the whole tape...

What i saw was a protest, many people chanting, singing, and defying the french troops across the street from where they were gathered. Then I saw the french troops open fire on the crowd. I did not see any body in this crowd armed in any way.

One marine tries to protect his unit from a real and iminet threat and the world goes ape shit.
The French gun down unarmed people and no one cares.

I'm Funking fed up with this bullshit!

#132 ördög Johnson

I'm just a raging hypocrite against the machine. If I could sleep I would.

You can't handle a sarc tag!
/

To #136

Perhaps that's why France has no problem sending arms to, and being alligned with China and others of similar sensibilities.

France is among the real monsters, among whom none are exposed as such, at least widely, and about whom all of the most horrific travesties against human rights and human life are ignored.

If you want to know about America's next war (or the latter half of this one), you have your answer.

Check this out!

The Last Battle of Vietnam

It never occurred to me, ever before,
That our Navy would win the Vietnam War.
When they took to their boats in this year of elections,
With the mission of making some major corrections
I shared their belief, John should not be elected,
And their view overdue, truth should be resurrected.
Yet I questioned the course they'd set themselves for,
Knowing how John was loved by the media whore.

Ignored and dismissed by the media queens
Being shrewd, savvy sailors they still found the means
To reach out to the people, to open their eyes
To a phony John Kerry and his war story lies.
With their very first ad, they torpedoed his boat,
A Cambodian Christmas would no longer float.
His heroics unraveled, his stories fell flat,
Especially that one 'bout his magical hat.

John called on his lawyers and media whores,
And threatened the Swiftees with vile legal wars.
But these warriors kept charging back into the fire,
And made the folks wonder, ''Is Kerry a liar?''
Till the question of whether he's telling the truth
Was still in their minds in the election day booth.
So the brave Swiftees gave us what we'd not had before,
They gave us our victory in the Vietnam War.

Those brave, stalwart sailors, falsely labeled as liars,
Stood firm and stood tall, kept directing their fires,
Steadfast, unrelenting, they served once again,
And defeated John Kerry, these honorable men.
All vets can take pride, yes all, not just some,
That we won the last battle of Vietnam.
It took far too long to bring an end to our war
But we did, November Second, Two Thousand Four.

To our Brothers, forever on that long black Wall,
You've been vindicated now, one and all.

Russ Vaughn
2d Bn, 327th Parachute Infantry Regiment
101st Airborne Division

#137 Beagle

Feel for ya...
After 2 gallons of coffee (not that colored water that goes by as coffee, real stuff), any time of day/night, I can drift into dreamland within 5 minutes. It'sa blessing. :-)

#138 Iron Fist 11/21/2004 12:58AM PST

Sleep is for the weak.

Well, if you can't, it is a pretty good lame excuse! :-)

It won't be a war...It will be a fast pass of our troops through cheese land. The french don't know how to fight. They only know how to surrender.

The U.N. vehicle burning merrily at the end of the video is a fairly potent metaphor.

#143 I.K.Chain

...provided that they are against armed group. When confronted by unarmed people, they are mighty fighters.

#138 Iron Fist

Sleep is for the weak.

For about three days. After that, sleep is for those who don't want to see things out of the corners of their eyes which don't actually exist. I've never gone past three days for fear I'd start seeing them right in front of my face. But if your monsters are cool, there is nothing wrong with that. ;)

#145

Maybe I'm thinking of the guy from "The Longest Day" ...when he welcomes the troops during the D day invasion. "welcome ...welcome my friends...now get the fuck out of my country!

Isn't it obvious?

The fwench troops must have thought there were evil Israelis mixed in there in the crowd...

doesn't matter how many innocent black civilians ya gotta smoke if you can get to the evil Jews...

quest-ce que c'importe? Sont que des noirs...

Please Go-d I hope that it's true that Israel did help the Ivory Coast military... and may it please G-d, I hope Israel helps other former fwench colonies.

This is absolutely disgusting.

Did anyone else hear in the video, someone chanting, U-S-A! U-S-A!

OT Another blow to the persuit of free speach in the Arab world, blogger closes his blog.

Abdulhadi Al-Khawajah gets one year in jail. Mahmood.TV is closed.
Posted by: Mahmood Al-Yousif on Sun, 21 Nov 2004 07:44:41
The Lower Criminal Court has passed sentance on Abdulhadi Al-Khawajah to be imprisoned for one year. I have no further details at the moment.

This was in the presence of a representative of Amnesty International.

This sentance is a bit much and I think is just an attempt for the government to save face. But at the cost of completely ridiculing Bahrain, its progress which it had enjoyed over the past 3 years. With this case, the government has effectively wiped out all gains since the National Referendum.

On top of that, another court is considering verdict on an activist who has "slandered one of the symbols of government in Bahrain" during the recent car demonstration in support of Abdulhadi Al-Khawajah.

It's not safe any more to voice your opinion in Bahrain, and in this consideration this blog is hereby closed.

Thank you very much for your support and understanding.

[Link: www.mahmood.tv...]

#146

It won't matter, no one in the MSM in going to make this outrage public. It's more important to string up one of our boys...thats what really matters...we are wrong no matter what we do...France can do whatever the fuch they want ...and no one cares.

#144 apotheosis:

I think quite telling, don't you?

#145 ördög Johnson:

As is always the case with tyrants.

#146 Beagle:

Ah, another one corrupted by relativistic thought :p

What is this "sleep" everyone is talking about?

Excuse my intrusion into another anti-frog fest.

On a previous thread several posters requested a link in support of my contention that there ARE mirabile dictu America loving Frenchies.

On an anecdotal basis I can tell you that over 95% of my French friends are supportive of Bush and America though I will be the first to admit that that is a highly unrepresentative statistic (they are more well-heeled and educated than average frenchies and stem from the conservative leadership of the ancien regime).

It just bugs me when Americans confirm stereotypes about themselves by saying cloddish things about ALL French. Idiots deal in superlatives.

I understand deep anger or even hatred of Chirac's dangerous undermining of US policy and the danger that poses for the world. But can't you acknowledge the simple FACT that many French are not the America haters you love to loath?

All I am asking is that we recognize that France has a left wing media that doesn't represent the opinions of most of the French I know.

Don't spit on your friends.

I have seen evidence of much wit, erudition, and sophistication on these threads and have faith that my simple if obvious point will be acknowledged at some point.

By the way the French America lovers are at [Link: www.cincinnati.asso.fr...]
click on the 2001 Triennial to see photographs

Out

Not sure, Geepers, but I think its time for me to go down to the lab and find out.

Nite, all. God bless red-state America and Israel: islands in the oceans of a Blue world.

#136: point us to the minute and second where you actually SEE French troops opening fire. (I'll tell you the answer: you don't. You only HEAR gunshots.)

I'm not a DU moonbat here. But I'm telling you, this tape is not conclusive evidence of French brutality. It certainly LOOKS like that's what happened, but who is to say that someone in the crowd didn't open fire on the soldiers first? Or who's to say that it wasn't the Ivory Coast's own troops (who were also in the tape)?

PS and I trust that you won't abuse the link.

Please remember these are the direct descendants and family representatives of the French officers who fought alongside Washington to secure our freedom and found our nation. They are some of our staunchist allies in France and deserve our gratitude and respect.

#153 Garnier

92% of the French supported Chirac's opposition to US intervention in Iraq. So yeah, OK, 8% of the French are decent people - including 1% of French Jews. Not all French are worthless.

It is time that the French got a taste of their own medicine. Too bad that UN double standards apply.

What we need is an international non-moonbat human rights organisation to protect Ivorians, Kanaks, Black Sudanese, Kurds, Saharawi, Non-Wahhabi Saudis, Berbers etc and, yes, even the Joos. This org should confront the hypocrisy of the Red Cross, Amnesty International, the UN and other NGDs (Non Governement Dhimmis), and hand of France in the suffering of most of these groups.

It should not be too hard to rally these minorties. Most of them protest individually for their rights, however weakly. United their voice is more likely to be heard by the MMM. And they have had a gutful of the NGDs.

The French colonies (Ivory Coast included for all practical purposes) should be a particular target of this initiative, as should the aspirations to independence of France's own non-ROP minorities: Basque, Breton, Catalan, German and Corsican. Some of these have even resorted to violent struggle in recent years. Surely in an integrated Europe as envisioned by France, there is no reason that these groups should not receive their autonomy?

What is the EU position on onffshore colonies in any case ? Surely the Scandinavians should take issue...

Fianally, French military might and particularly its nuclear capability should also be drawn to the attention of European pacifists.

Lets hope the Ivory Coast becomes France's second Vietnam and Algeria combined, and soon ...

The French are disgusting, murderous, racist hypocrites.

I despise them.

Salope Marianne, putain de merde!

#155 mcg

When Bali terrorists hide in a crowd of 'civilians' and we shoot back at the terrorists, France is the first country to 'condemn' and talk about international law and genocide. Apparently their standard is that Jews should not shoot back when there's a crowd of 'civilians' around, no matter what the target. Are you telling me that France has now officially a double standard, that non-Jews are allowed to defend themselves? Is Judenhass now official French policy?

F*ck France.

F*ck them up their stupid a$$es.

I don't gove a sh*t if there is a decent Frenchie or two - if that's the case they'd do better to emigrate somewhere normal.

I hope France becomes engulfed in a bloody civil war with its 5 mil+ RoP minority as soon as possible.

F*ck 'em, I says, for they are scum.

#159 Craig Abu Al-Boo-Boo,

The next time you post I demand that you tell us how you really feel.:-)

Second mcj here - can't see the shooters in the tape = hard to use it to place blame. Certainly seems an investigation, etc. should be performed though. Perhaps there is more footage from a better vantage point out there somewhere?

Charles should really put a warning on that video, it's extremely graphic.

#155

At the end of the video it can clearly be seen that French units comprised the majority of the troops involved, if not all. It also seems fairly obvious by the resulting carnage that even if the French felt they were under threat, they immediately began shooting indiscrimanately into a crowd consisting of a majority of unarmed civilians.

I watched the whole video fairly thoroughly and it seems a lot of unarmed women were hit.

I will admit however that you can't clearly see French troops firing.

#158 moose

Forget 'independentists' in France. They are criminals, pure and simple, and their 'violent struggle' is nothing more than a protection racket.

um indiscriminately,

#161 Golden Jerusalem

F*ck them up their stupid a$$es.

A suggestion: wear two condoms.

I'm just seething right now. Not only did I watch the video, but I just read a thread that's 12 pages long on [Link: www.fuckfrance.com...] where a bunch of Frenchmen try to explain it away as a hoax or justify the shootings.

They make my blood boil.

#165 Mr Pol

Forget 'independentists' in France. They are criminals, pure and simple, and their 'violent struggle' is nothing more than a protection racket.

I am in full agreement. The same is true of the PA,PLO, Chechen rebels and Iraqi insurgents. The issue is not whether the insurgency is legitimate.

The issue is rather that internal seperatism may be useful in destabilising and neutralising a rising threat. Isnt this what France is doing to Israel in Judea, Samaria and Gaza, and to the US in Iraq ? (and don't get me started on Iran: yes they are a country and not a guerilla movement, but exactly the same logic applies). Time that France got some of the same.

The only debate now is whether the Anglosphere and its true allies should consider France to be an enemy, or whether there is still a chance of bringing it to its senses.

If the latter is true:
A further debate may be on what kind of enemy France may present itself as: a relatively neutral but overall negative influence, a powerful opposing force to be contained a la Soviet Union, or a more immediate threat (member of the "Axis of Evil").

#169 moose

The Balis support their criminal masters, while, for example, the Corsicans oppose the criminals masquerading as Corsican 'independentists'. That's the difference. Helping those criminals wreak havoc is tactictally sound, it's still immoral.

France today is clearly an enemy of democracy. It's not the French people who are the enemy, though, it's the current French oligarchy - and their 'media'.

#169
Sorry, that should have read "if the former is true" before the last paragraph of #169.

Never type when sleep deprived... But I could not help myself tonight. After today's diplomatic "miracle" involving Iran's nukes I am incoherent with rage, mostly focused at France (though the UK and the Germans also deserve a spanking today...)

#171 moose

After today's diplomatic "miracle" involving Iran's nukes

Huh? I missed that. A couple of days ago France, Germany and the UK gave Iran the OK to develop and deploy nuclear weapons, what happened since then?

A little OT connect the dots exercise for a Sunday morning.

I just came across this letter to the editor in the NYT from the Executive Director for "Partners for Peace", a group I hadn't heard of before. PFP turns out to be a UN-registered NGO whose main claim-to-fame appears to be an ongoing speaking tour by "three women, three faiths" who highlight "the nonviolent efforts of Palestinians, Israelis, and citizens of other nations to end the occupation of the Palestinian territories".

It's always entertaining taking a peek at the Board of Directors of these groups where we find none other than ISM-founder ("Palestine Shall be Free from the River to the Sea") Adam Shapiro.

So, we have a steering committee with an agenda of genocide directing a front-group which feigns non-violence, foisting their agenda on an unsuspecting public enabled by the newspaper infamous for quashing reports on the systematic extermination of 6 million Jews during the last effort at genocide. History runs in such tight circles.

OMG

[Link: www.suntimes.com...]

"On Nov. 6, France became a party to the conflict by destroying at least two military aircraft in the tiny Ivorian air force in response to an alleged friendly fire incident in which government fighter jets bombed a French military encampment while attacking rebel positions in the northern town of Bouake, the rebel stronghold, killing nine French soldiers and one American civilian.

Under traditional international law, peacekeeping forces are supposed to be impartial, lightly armed, not to use force except in self-defense and function with the consent of the host state. From this background, the French bombing of the Ivorian air force would be illegal and in breach of Article 2(4) of the U.N. Charter prohibiting states to attack one another unless in self-defense. France was also obligated to adhere to the principles of impartiality and proportionality and prevailing U.N. Charter law prohibitions on uses of force. Notwithstanding, the traditional law of peacekeeping is blurred when states undertake U.N.-authorized enforcement actions. Nonetheless, France's enforcement power is limited to the operational mandate of the UNOCI, which does not permit reprisals for negligent bombing or the breaching of the cease-fire agreement. Reprisals of this sort are not permitted under international law or by any of the agreements/resolutions controlling this conflict. Because France was operating under a U.N. mandate, it should have formally complained about the bombing to the U.N. before acting as judge and executioner."

...

"Last week, the U.N. Security Council adopted a French-sponsored Resolution 1572, which condemned the Ivorian air strikes and fully supported the retaliatory actions of French forces. The resolution demands that Ivorian authorities cease all radio and television broadcasts inciting hatred, intolerance and violence and, most important, levies an arms embargo on the country. It also promises targeted economic and travel sanctions on anyone who threatens peace and national reconciliation processes."

The UN is just insane.

MrPol 167:

wear two condoms

As my #161 should have made more clear, I'm waiting for the sweet irony of Fwance getting f***cked by their mussie friends, who currently number at least 10% of the population.

I fully believe (and very much HOPE) that Fwance will be engulfed in civil war before the next decade or two.

I just hope I live to see the beautiful sight of the disintegration of that immoral and shitty nation.

Who's gonna save their stupid asses this time?

Won't be Uncle Sam, that much is for sure.

Maybe the UN will interven and put peace keepers in the suburbs of Paris?

#170 Mr Pol,

I agree with you once again. I do however question the importance of the distinction that you have raised. In a war, victory falls to those that are prepared to use the most efficient tools. This is why by many measures the "war on terror" (OK, war on ROPMA. We can call it what it is) is being lost.

I am also interested in the issue of morality in this context. Are we in a real, global war ? I certainly think so. Is it total war ? It is, for one side at least. And it is a strange war. Television cameras and web sites are more powerful than bunker busters and fighter bombers. Sometimes you win by having MORE people killed. Sympathy is more important than territory.

Morality and self-imposed restraint is a luxury that has proven to be too costly in the long term (consider the Najaf debacle, or the recent scandal around That Marine shooting That poor defenceless insurgent).

The real issue is: Is a particular country an ally or an enemy ? How much of a threat does that country present ? What are the consequences of its influence and support of enemy powers ?What tools are available to neutralise it ?

Any country consists of countless people, many of which are probably quite reasonable, and do not deserve to be tarred with the same brush as their compatriots. Arguably, this was true even of Germany in WWII, or even Japan. Is is not a conter-argument for the Firebombing of Dresden, or even of Hirshima. War is war.

Isn't it morally preferable to paralyse a serious enemy through mild destabilisation and diplomatic embarrasment? Particularly when they are a developed Western democracy that has lost its way, but presents a major problem.

#172

Huh? I missed that. A couple of days ago France, Germany and the UK gave Iran the OK to develop and deploy nuclear weapons, what happened since then?

Sorry,

I should have said "/sarcasm" instead of useing double quotes.

It is a miracle for Iran and a bad day for us.

I was referring to this

#176 moose

France is an enemy, and a dangerous one. That much is obvious. The issue, IMO, is that most of the French are just stupid and brainwashed. What is required is a regime change. Helping out criminals would make France weaker, so tactically it is sound. Would it make the regime easier to change? I'm not sure. And that's the morality part. In 1991 defanging the Iraqi regime was tactically sound, but it meant accepting 12 more years of suffering for the Iraqi population.

From the French Society that is near and dear to me to the people of the United States:

"Events that took place over the past three years, which were essentially marked by the tragic aggression of 9/11 and by the tensions in Franco-American relations at the time of the Iraqi conflict, lead the French Society [of the Cincinnati founded by George Washington] to express ITS SOLIDARITY WITH THE AMERICAN PEOPLE and to ways to improve improve better understanding on the other side of the Atlantic.

Thus on the day of 9/11, the French Society assured the ambassador of the United States in France and the president general of our deep sympathy and compassion and, on 11/11, it sent to the citizens of New York City and Washongton, D.C., a message of solidarity that was printed in the weekly magazine France-Amerique, circulated throughout the continent.

It read as follows:

On November 11, 1918, thanks to the commitment of the American nation and the sacrifice of its boys, FRANCE was able to drive away the intruders from its soil and recover its freedom. On September 11th, two months ago on this anniversary day, the United States was savagely attacked on its own soil . THE SOCIETE DE CINCINNATI DE FRANCE whose forebears were comrades-in-arms of the American soldiers during the American Revolution, and who fought under the command of General WASHINGTON, alongside LAFAYETTE, ROCHAMBEAU AND DE GRASSE REMEMBERS and WISHES TO EXPRESS TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, particularly to the citizens of New York City and Washington, D.C., ITS TOTAL SOLIDARITY AND SUPPORT IN THEIR FIGHT FOR FREEDOM.

Societe de Cincinnati de France
2 bis Rabelais, 75008 Paris, France
Tel. 011 33 1 45 61 45 40
E-mail: Cincinnati@free.fr

All Frenchmen that stand with the USA are true friends of America and the they honor the memory of Lafayette.

Does anyone know the source of the video? It's very graphic and very real. Where's Drudge on this? This is a REAL atrocity where there is no war!!!

#94
I saw the thing on the Bush twins. Then I went to digitalcity.com and left a review of the restaurant (Freeman's). Someone else must have seen it too, because that person had already left a really apt review...

From tidwell2004
on 11/20/2004:
A Dump
Yeah, this place is recommended by 10 million flies. The food is absolutely awful and the service is worse. Avoid it at all costs.

[Link: www.alertnet.org...]

I watched the video too, very graphic. But they don't show westerners until the end of the video, who knows who did what really. i know most on this site have it in for the French, but let's realize why they are there. They are trying to stop a civil war. Westerners, including Americans, have been killed by the mobs. The soldiers are trying to keep the governement and rebels from killing each other and killing more Western civilians.

This whole thing started when the Ivory Coast government hired mercenaries to bomb French peace keepers and they just happened to kill an American for good measure.

The video is absolutely shocking.

Does anyone know when this whole thing happened?

As far as I know, the Froggies are part of the ICC. Lets see where that will get them...

if the video is a legit atrocity, just post is to Drudge, on his page he has a place where you can post tips.

It's Hard not to hate the French... when they are soo hypocryt !

Ops CORRECTION : IT'S HARD NOT TO HATE THE FRENCH...

#180

Thank you, Tom321.

Decency backed by insurmountable force of arms will win this one for us and all who value civilization.

Vive la France!

Vivent les Etat Unis!

Vive la Societe des Cincinnati!

OH, IT WAS CORRECT :)

NOT-RELATED :

Iran's victory over Laos lead to sporadic clashes

Iran's victory over Laos, played yesterday in the frame of the qualification of the next Worldcup Soccer games, lead to sporadic clashes at Tehran's Azadi ('Freedom') Stadium as demonstrators sized the occasion in order to shout anti-regime slogans.

Brutal Security forces were quick to move against the protesters in order to avoid a spread of the action by using heavy clubs and injuring several. In retaliation, several patrol cars and public materials were damaged by the crowd.

Several protesters were arrested.

More and more Iranians are using in an increasing pattern any occasion or event in order to show their rejection of the Islamic republic regime.

It's PERSIAN Gulf , Arabic Gulf !

Nov 20, 2004

Iranians and knowledged Americans, historians and geographists are increasing their mobilization in order to defend the historically and internationally well recognized name of the "Persian Gulf" and Iran's sovereignty over the three Iranian islands of "Greater" and "Lesser Tumbs" and "Aboo Moossa".

Their constant actions in that line, since the fall of the former Iranian regime which has left Iran with an unpopular, incompetent and fragilized regime and diplomacy, has been boosted, especially, following a very controversial publication made by the till now well respected and 'non-partisan' "National Geographic Society". This institution has labeled the well known "Persian Gulf" as "Arabic Gulf" in its latest "Atlas of the World 2005" (Eighth Edition, ISBN: 0-7922-7543-8 & ISBN: 0-7922-7542-x). Worst, it has qualified the three Iranian islands as "occupied islands" by trying to attribute their ownership to the "United Arab Emirates" (UAE) which is well known for its desperate tries to use Iran's current regime's position in order to push its illegitimate agenda against the Iranian nation.

Many, especially among Americans, can't understand how an entity, such as the "National Geographic Society", can get mixed in a lobby action and carry a mission of geographical falsification attempts while it was qualified for years as a neutral and factual reference. They do beleive that the desperate tries of the UAE and the money it's spending, in order to falsificate historical and geographical facts in reference to the region, have finally produced some effects, as, the "National Geographic" has agreed to put its credibility in jeopardy.

Other alarming news are stating that National Geographic's support of such a false claim, follows its acceptance of a rich family member of one of the Sheiks, ruling over UAE, as one of its top administration members.

It's to note that while Iran or Persia has been officially existing for over 2500 years, the UAE was created in 1971 form the formation of seven little Sheikhdoms. This small region was formerly known as the "Pirates Coast" and was under British mandate following the collapse of the Turkish Ottoman Empire at the issue of the First World War.

Unfortunately, in addition to several money oriented European governments and news or financial institutions, such as France, UK and Germany or AFP and Reuters, some very few American sources are helping UAE in its illegitimate claim. They do think that such policy can force the Islamic republic to comply with their agenda. But in reality, these very few misguided American sources are helping the Islamic regime which then plays the well known fear and nationalistic feelings of Iranians by stating that foreign powers are against Iranians and that its downfall can bring the split of Iran or of its islands.

It's in reaction to such demagogy that a secularist dissident Iranian group named the "Marzeporgohar Organization" has started a well percieved campaign by alarming the Iranians and Americans. Many of those who had purchased the latest version of the "National Geographic's Atlas of the World 2205", have started to return them back, since yesterday, and getting back their legally due refunds. Others are following the same path by buying the book from sellers, such as, Borders, Barnes & Nobles or Amazon.Com, in order to return them few days later with their note of protest and getting their legally full refund. This way of protest has been reported as having created many complications for the sellers located especially in the Los Angeles area.

CORRECTION : PERSIAN GULF , NOT ARABIC GULF

In addition, many Iranians who have heard about the illegitimate and shameful episode , or their Iranian friends are flowing the publisher with calls (800 962 1643 from inside the US and Canada) or (+1 813 979 6845 from oustide US and Canada) , faxes and e-mails ( cbeidel@ngs.org , comments@natgeochannel.com ngsforum@nationalgeographic.com , ngt@nationalgeographic.com , education@nationalgeographic.com ) of protest which have brought its different departments to often blame each other.

Several jurists are even looking on the legal grounds to sue pro-bono the "National Geographic Society" and asking a discovery on contributions received which they believe might show links to UAE sources.

The anger is of the most justified especially by knowing the UN directive of August 18 1994 {94-33224 (E) 180894} Stating: "Attention is once again drawn to editorial directive ST/CS/SER.A/29 and Corr.1 and Add.1 on the use of the term 'Persian Gulf'. The purpose of the present addendum is to urge that care be taken to ensure the appropriate use of this term in documents, publications and statements prepared by the Secretariat. The full term 'Persian Gulf' should be used in every case instead of the shorter term 'Gulf', including in repetitions of the term after its initial use in a text." Or the May 14, 1999 { 99-14427 (E) 200599 UNST/CS/SER.A/29/Rev.1} , which is stipulating the follow: "1. The term 'Persian Gulf' is used in documents, publications and statements emanating from the Secretariat as the standard geographical designation for the sea area between the Arabian Peninsula and Iran. The full term 'Persian Gulf' is always used to designate that sea area when it is first referred to in a text and is repeated thereafter whenever necessary for the sake of clarity. 2. The term 'Gulf' is used in documents, publications and statements emanating from the Secretariat to identify or refer to the general geographical area surrounding or adjacent to the sea area referred to in paragraph 1 above or to refer to the situation around that sea area. The terms 'Gulf area', 'Gulf region' and 'Gulf States' are examples of such usage. "

Parts of the Marzeporgohar statement are as follow: "Considering the fact that the National, Geographic is the biggest non-profit educational and scientific institution, it is hard for us to fathom how they made reference to the Persian Gulf with an unrecognized name. The United Nations, in addition to historical records and facts that date back more than thousands of years, have made it abundantly clear that the body of water in question is recognized as the Persian Gulf. ... ...Perhaps the National Geographic Society should look back on it’s own maps to see that 33 years ago no entity by the name of United Arab Emirates existed, however Iran did. Furthermore, the National Geographic itself had previously always used the formal, and legitimate name, the Persian Gulf to reference the body of water in question. The National Geographic’s stance encourages conflict in an area which has experiences relative calm with the use of the official and internationally recognized name of the Persian Gulf for centuries. Iran has existed for more then seven thousand years, and to now have a publication attempt to strip it of its historical territory will not be tolerated. The Atlas goes further to claim that the Persian Gulf Islands are being occupied by Iran. If anything is being occupied, it would be various parts of Iran that have been taken from us through illegal means starting 33 years ago..."

For a better and more referenced, historical and detailed understanding of the issue, read SMCCDI's "Iran's Maritime Boundaries in the 'Persian Gulf' and the case of the three Iranian islands" located in the website's "About Iran" section or at: [Link: www.daneshjoo.org...]

stephania,

yes, we keep hearing that the Iranian people are "pro-Western" and anti fundamentalist. But the thing is, we have been so burned by the iraqi people, and the world of naysayers, what can America do for these people? If we try to help them, what happens when they turn on us and Bush is called Hitler again? Who will send troops to help them but us?

I keep hearing the Iranians wan't democracy but i have no idea what to do about that.

#183 - It does show, albeit quickly and scattered throughout the video, soldiers on foot in between the trees. I couldn't make out who the soldiers represented, but I could very plainly see that they were caucasian. I don't know what language the demonstrators speak, but I clearly heard the word 'France' coming from the mouth of one angry man. So am I to assume that incinerating a woman's head is a 'mob control' tactic? This isn't a war zone yet, is it? Has France received UN approval for this? Did they gather a 'coalition of willing' before entering? Ironic, isn't it. Do as I say, not as I do.

195 tom321

Regarding Iran, I'm inclined to kill their nukes and let them free themselves. Except for the nukes, I think Saudi is a wrose threat than Iran. Saudi is actively trying to spread hated against us around the world, and seems more successful than Iran. The major reason to open a ground front against Iran is as a strategy in the Iraq war.

I saw the entire video, and - after calming down and sleeping on it - I can't be sure what prompted the shooting. The cameraman is obviously running for cover during the shooting. The only things beyond dispute are the wounded and dead civilians and that at least some of the soldiers are French.

I hate the French as much as anyone here, but I can't simply accuse the French of an unprovoked massacre (as much as I'd like to). I agree with those calling for some context and deep breaths. I have to keep in mind some of the scenes from Paleostinian and Iraqi crowds and even Kent State before pointing the finger at the soldiers. I'm not making any moral equivalence comparisons between these incidents, just giving examples of soldiers firing on apparently hostile crowds.

/my $.02

197 Luigi,

Saudi or Iran, i guess it's a judjement call. But there is no question that there are forces of liberalization in Saudi. I don't know if they will prevail, but they exist, and i mean at the government level.

Iran is trying to make a nuke, that is a whole new ball game. We just can not allow it, particularly with the Iranian mullahs being threatened by their people. They can't be allowed to posses a nuke, period. And if we hit their nuke facilities they won't just sit there, they will surely invade Israel, they have a huge army, better than Saddams.

Saudi is bad, but i think that will alwas be an intel thing. Iran is super scary and everyone wants to ingnore it because of Iraq fatigue.

#195: Have the Iraqi people really burned us or has the media burnt the Iraqi people in their attempts to burn the US? Catch 22, wouldn't you say?

200 darcy,

the media has not helped us that is for sure

Regarding Iran, I wanted to reprint an Idea I had a while back about a quasi-private citizen army like the Rough Riders achieving military objectives in places like the Sudan where we are not militarily engaged. I could see this for Iran as well.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

I hope I linked properly.

I know this would feed ammo to America's enemies. But it has a certain symmetry to it as it mimics the threat coming from Islamofascism in that it has no borders and flies no actual flag. As far as I'm concerned, anyone would be welcome to join, including dissident Iranians, like-minded Euros and Australians, and perhaps even mercs.

153 Garnier, After reading your posts at the other thread, I went to a favorite data source and saw that in the last election, Mr. Chirac won with 81.96% of the vote.

CIA World Fact Book - France

When someone wins an election with such a high %, it is hard not to suspect problems of some kind. I probably could not get 81.96% of Americans to agree that green traffic lights should mean "go," no less to agree on a particular candidate for high national office.

#203 adie

81.96%?!

That would mean 12.04% didn't vote for him--and in any one group of people in the US, at least that many would vote different just to be contrary!

And the moonbats think we have election fraud going on? They need to look at France. (That's like Castro getting 100% of the vote. He's the 1 vote, so of course he gets his own vote...)

This video shows that the French denials are absolute lies. It should be widely shown. It should appear throughout the blogosphere. It should appear on Drudge. It should appear on Fox News. It is dynamite, and shows the lying hypocritical game that Chirac is playing when he postures as a pacifist dedicated to legitimacy by world approval. Where is the world approval for this brutal war crime ordered by the Prime Minister of France?

Chirac is not the equivalent of Hitler. Nevertheless, he seems to have adopted a Nazi tactic in giving the order to fire on a crowd of unarmed black African civilians in revenge after some French troops were killed by an Ivory Coast aircraft.

Chirac's aggression in Ivory Coast (in eliminating Ivory Coast's little air force by blowing it up on the ground), and also by attacking unarmed civilians, needs to be widely known. It shows the hypocricy of France posing as having pacifist principles (for others only, not for itself), of requiring court procedures before any bullet is fired (for Israel only,not for itself), of getting the approval of the UN Security Council before violent actions are taken (for the US only, not for itself).

Chirac wants to wean all of the "third world" away from US influence, as the keystone element of his multipolarism imperialism. It is very important that the thirld world see this video to be aware of the racist, imperialist approach of Chirac, and to see that his denials are false, and that his word and his actions cannot be trusted.

Shoot!

I screwed up...it should have said 18.04%.

PIMF!

As they usually do, the French treat their former colonials as cattle.

America should help Ivorians get rid of the French masters.

NO WAR FOR COCOA!!!

That Chirac election, according to the link was:

election results: Jacques CHIRAC reelected president; percent of vote, second ballot - Jacques CHIRAC (RPR) 81.96%, Jean-Marie LE PEN (FN) 18.04%

That's like if Kerry ran against someone halfway between Buchanan and David Duke. I wonder what he got on the first ballot.

Where's the international outrage? Where's the UN General Assembly to pass a resolution condemning France's outrageous agression? Where's the Internation Court of Justice to try French officials for war crimes?

Listen really hard and you'll hear a resounding silence broken up now and then by a few international yawns.

This is a very disturbing movie. I tried checking the home page, but don't read French. Wish we could obtain:

* more facts about what was happening before and during this massacre.

* technical analysis of the movie to indicate whether it has been edited substantively.

[Link: troppoarmadillo.ubersportingpundit.com...]

Fox is covering the W pushing incident in Chile in about a minute in NY area.

#43 Darleen

Thanks...mine too
I live by it...I breathe the same air as Ayn

oh and btw the French (Chirac) are doing everything to create a counterbalance to the hyperpower of American - an adverserial hyperpower (EU) and using Israel as the thrust, the main point of contention. This is the work of the French. This is what is behind the madman, Chirac. Do not underestimate him - he intends to galvanize the 20-to-30% muslim population of Europe.

But much like Stalin when he hooked up with Hitler, this too will come to bite Chirac in gonads (quite harshly i might add)

Has anyone seen Protest Warrior's French chapter? Really, it exists:

[Link: hq.protestwarrior.com...]

What should the US do ?

It should finance the opposition both inside and outside Iran, selling them arms, refuse to engage the Mullahs or even talk to them,stop the Europeans from doing business with the Mullahs ( i mean, putting sanctions- yes - on the Euro companies who do business with them ) and... KEEP ON THREATING THE MULLAHS WHILE MORALLY SUPPORTING THE IRANIAN PEOPLE'S ASPIRATIONS.

JUST AS PRESIDENT BUSH HAS BEEN DOING SO FAR.

AND NOW THAT POWELL HAS GONE ( HOPING THAT ARMITAGE GOES TOO ), BUSH HAS A GOOD CHANCE TO PROMOTE REGIME CHANGE , NOT REFORMS , IN IRAN.

MILLIONS OF IRANIANS PRAYED FOR BUSH TO BE RE-ELECTED AND HE HAS A DUTY NOT TO DISAPPOINT THEM.

WHAT BUSH NEEDS RIGHT NOW IS A WAR CABINET ( TO CITE LEDEEN'S RECENT PIECE ON THE NRO ) MADE UP WITH HAWKS AND NEOCONS RATHER THAN APPEASERS.

REMEMBER, IT'S NOT JUST THE BAATHIST REMNANTS THOSE WHO ATTACK AND KILL THE US TROOPS.

IT'S THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC REGIME WHO FUNDS ZARQAWI AND SENDS HIS OFFICERS AND AGENTS TO FUEL THE HATRED AGAINST THE AMERICAN TROOPS.

THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC REGIME'S "MISSION" HAS ALWAYS BEEN EXPORTING ITS SO-CALLED REVOLUTION TO OTHER COUNTRIES OF THE REGION. THEY'RE NOW TRYING TO DO SO IN IRAQ.

THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC IS A MAJOR SOURCE OF TERRORISM AND INSTABILITY. IF IT COLLAPSES , MANY PROBLEMS WILL BE ON THE WAY TO BE RESOLVED.

A DEMOCRATIC,PRO-US GOVT IN IRAN WILL PROMOTE STABILITY,PEACE AND TOLERANCE IN THE REGION.

AS LEDEEN SAYS, IF WE WANNA WIN THIS WAR, WE NEED TO HELP THE IRANIANS GET RID OF THAT REGIME.

FASTER, PLEASE.

OT

Sordid Wahabia - More words of Allah's wisdom reach Clown Ponce Abdullah.

Terrorists give Islam a bad name

So my conclusion is that Mossad is the creator of the Holy Messenger. Only he was supposed to just give Islam a bad name...not to make such a 'success' of it.

Regarding Iran, the problem isn't only their untimate possession of a nuke. The larger problem is that by allowing their project to go on, they are learning how to make nukes. When you take on a complicated project, its only hard the first time. Once you learn how, the second time is easy. There is a growing body of people in the Muslim world who know how to make nukes. That is a huge problem.

That's why we have to stop them now!

BWT -- W was great with that bodyguard problem in Chile. He earned mucho respect, I'm sure. May have saved some American lives right there with the deterrent effect of showing what we're made of.

It seems that Al-Reuters hopes that there will not elections in Iraq...

Iraq Sets Election Date But Unrest Threatens Poll

Even if nothing will happen, it will find something bad to report.

#68
Informational note.. France had the Ivory Coast as a Colonial Province in the past, just as Viet Nam was once a somewhat French-Indochina Colonial area. Not what I'd call a great track record. Canada ??? French-speaking too. ???

#204 kschlenker, it does seem unlikely to get almost 82% of the votes in any election. I should dig into this more to see if I can find any analysis discussing how this came to pass. Perhaps VDH has written about it.

Winter Storm Warnings for san Diego area mountains.

Accumulating snows possible above 800 m ASL even in the coastal ranges of SoCal.

Meanwhile, the tornado producing supercells in Victoria and Lavaca counties that formed along a convergence zone just south of the warm front in SE Texas merged and spread into an extremely slow moving area of storms just south and west of Houston, where heavy rain has fallen all night.

WSR-88D NexRad Doppler Radar

Texas Flood

US 59 is reported closed near Louise due to flooding.

From the video, it's impossible to judge who fired first. Nevertheless, if the French had been Israelis and the Ivoirians Palestinians, this would be front page news. The condemnations of Israel - Jenin, anyone? - would be ringing from the high heavens, or the media at least.

As to the election result, the reason why Chirac won with 80+% of the vote has to do with who he was running against. The first vote ended with Chirac and Le Pen as the top two contenders - in France, if no candidate gets 50+% of the vote, they have a revote later on. Le Pen has a bit of a Nazi history; Chirac was able to paint it as "vote for the criminal, not the Nazi" in order to win the race.

French get choice of 'crook or fascist'

but Chirac is both...

French Shooting Civillians Part 1

This is the link to the first half of the tape. What Charles posted is the second half.

OT

Why does anyone go to Drudge, when his site is full of spyware?

#225 Try Firefox or Opera... Microsoft Internet Explorer is a hacker's heaven...

My french is fairly rudidmentary however, I did pick this up from the website. Warning: graphic photos of Ivory Coast civilians murdered by French Troops

Does anyone have a better link to the video?

I hardly get to see the first 20 seconds. It cuts off.

Thanks

Apparently, my English is as well - sorry for the typo - I meant rudimentary.

#224 jooly

Can you give us a brief description of the video? I'm downloading but it's amazingly slow on my cable modem.

---

I can't believe there is a controversy here. The French mssacred unarmed civilians - that is a fact and this is apparently video of the event. At one point a man in the crowd curses the French by name. After the shooting you can see French troops in their APCs pointing their weapons at the crowd. I was sure the shooting would start again, but it didn't.

we should go there and pass out ak-47's and ammo

I've only downloaded the first half of the tape and am studying it intensely. It's difficult to say where the shots are coming from though it appears more than likely that the shooters are French troops on the Grassy Knoll. I'd better tell the Warren Commission about this one. Finally, we know who killed JFK!

Do I get my tin-foil hat now?

#226 balisong

Try Firefox or Opera... Microsoft Internet Explorer is a hacker's heaven...

Everybody says that; I use IE, but I've never been hacked, nor I have gotten any spyware that wasn't blocked or easily removed.

Heads up. The video is in two parts, and the file sizes are huge - 93 MB and 100 MB.

Thanks. I just switched over to Firefox. From what I can see, it seems cooler. Foxy smooth waves of wholesomeness rubbing themselves in a fox-like tantric joy...

After watching part one of the video, I'm troubled by a few things. When the French troops apparently open fire, why do their M-16's produce so much smoke? What kinds of munitions were they using and who authorized the use of force against an apparently peaceful rally?

I'm sure all of my liberal friends will easily rationalize this video and give the Frogs a pass. They are too busy focusing on the real violence in the NBA.

End the (French) occupation (of the Ivory Coast) now!

OT

...Last summer, a last will and testament was found when an 18-year-old man of Moroccan-born parents was arrested for plotting terrorist attacks in the Netherlands. The list of targets included the Dutch parliament, Schiphol and the nuclear reactor at Borssele. Floor plans of several public buildings were also found. The former student wrote in his will he wants his newborn son to live "in the spirit of jihad."

Described by a police psychiatrist as "fearless and fatalistic," the student "gradually fell under the spell of ideas about the oppression of Islam." During a court hearing, his family remained seated as all present rose when the judge entered. The mother was covered in a head-to-toe chador in Muslim fundamentalist fashion.

Islamist extremists even penetrated the Dutch intelligence service with a double agent. One officer was arrested last September. The government hastily drafted a Patriot Act-like law that enables it to strip citizens of their citizenship and deport them if they engage in extremist acts.

COULD the Netherlands be a curtain- raiser for a wider clash of civiliza tions in the old continent?

Hundreds of thousands of young Muslims in Europe are potential jihadis, according to European intelligence chiefs speaking not for publication. They have been warning their political masters about the tinderboxes that many Muslim communities have become. Jihadi volunteers are known to have left for Iraq from a number of Muslim slums on the outskirts of major European cities.

Recruitment posters come on regular European and Arabic news programs — from the Abu Ghraib prison pictures to the battle of Fallujah.

EUROPE'S CIVIL WAR?

#160, Mr. Pol: No, I am saying nothing of the sort. I am only saying that this tape does not prove they did anything wrong here. That's it. If we're going to nail them to the wall for committing atrocities, which I would LOVE to be able to do, we need the evidence. This ain't it.

#237 Bubbaman

When the French troops apparently open fire, why do their M-16's produce so much smoke?

Im sure the French would use any weapon other than a American M-16.

OT I have found a new source of news. It will tell you all you need to know without bias of any sort. UN News Service
/LLL mode off

#240 American Infidel

Ummm, I am not having any luck with getting to view these videos...

Am I doing something wrong???

I would say right-click and "save as" but I'm getting a whopping 15.5KB/Sec with an estimated complete time of 2hrs 9min.

The site is farked (too much traffic?).

Ok first, that's a really really disturbing and graphic video. Be warned, there are very close up shots of gaping wounds, a persons hand that was turned into pulp, and a person with their head ... exploded is the best way I can describe it. Seriously, it's not pretty.

Secondly I am trying to ask myself the same questions as if it were American troops. Why were they firing? Were they attacked? Were there other shooting at the French soldiers? The video is very chaotic and it's hard to tell what's going on. The people look to be very peaceful and unarmed though, that's for certain.

Definitely watch the first half, since the second half is apparently ambiguous for some people.

In the second half, the crowd is singing, chanting slogans, and holding up signs.

Some men in the crowd begin threatening the French troops by mooning them.

Shortly thereafter, the shooting starts. You can clearly see the gunshots coming from the French positions behind the barbed wire obstacle.

These French troops are cold-blooded murderers.

Charles,

Both links appear to go to the same video: "frenchsoldiersshootingcivilians2.mpeg", is there a 1.mpeg?

In the second first half, the crowd is singing, chanting slogans, and holding up signs.

Sorry about that.

Spiny Norman,

The site is farked (too much traffic?).

Maybe a little more, it was near as slow couple of days ago.

Thom,

Are there any links to the number of people killed and injured?

#245 Spiny Norman

Both links appear to go to the same video:

Go here for a list of all the files they have, there are more than these two.

Charles,

Am I reading something wrong or do both links you provided point to the same file?

1) englishdownload/frenchsoldiersshootingcivilians2.m pg

2) englishdownload/frenchsoldiersshootingcivilians2.m pg

#248 Geepers

I'm not clear on that. Maybe 7 killed, 200+ wounded?

Pull the French out of Ivory Coast, send in the NBA!

Sorry, could help myself. But Friday night NBA game in Detriot was some of the best TV I have seen in years!

control the media, control the mind

Al-Reuters is all over this story. Well, sort of. Here's their lead story on the French "peacekeeping" mission:

France rejects Gbagbo Ivory Coast beheading charge

(Defence Minister Michele) Alliot-Marie accused Ivory Coast's leaders of manipulating crowds of protesters in an extremely dangerous way.

"The racist and xenophobe statements made about us by Ivory Coast leaders are intolerable," she said.

French troops had done a remarkable job in Ivory Coast, she said, to keep a ceasefire between the two rival sides in the fighting that has torn apart the world's largest cocoa producing country.

Maybe the girls were not guillotined, but having their heads head blown off by machinegun fire has the same result, Ms. Defence Minister.

But yes, no French soldier has put panties on anybody's head. So there.

Further to #176,

I just wanted to clarify my position. I am merely calling for raising public awareness and drawing media attention to the plights of French minorities, colonies and ex-colonies, as well as any people victimised within the Arab and Islamic world.

References to destabilisation of France described the effects of such attention on French politics and foreign policy. Perhaps destabilisation is too sinister a word. I was only suggesting legitimate internal protest and international embarrasment.

The moral question discused was whether it is legitimate to cheerlead for causes led by criminal seperatists. My argument is yes it is.

References to Dresden and Hiroshima were perhaps unnecessarily dramatic.

I am only calling for peaceful protest on behalf of certain minorities and oppressed groups.

Even if you think that what these French (and other??) troops did is no different than what that Marine did (even though I think it's totally different), than you should at least be mad about the hypocrisy of the French, the UN, the MSM, and many liberals. Even if there is some coverage of this, it won't even compare to stories about the US and Israel. Even when there are cases where there was an obvious threat, they often go out of their way to make it seem like the person was just minding their own business rather than trying to kill them.

Possible epitaphs:

Killed by nuance
Failed the Global Test
At least I wasn't humiliated
They sent in the clowns, and the clowns killed me.

Anyway, I agree with the posters who believe the video doesn't establish exactly what happened. That said, even if others fired at the French first, are heavily armed troops with armored vehicles in front of them in so much danger that they must fire a couple of hundred rounds into a crowd? The French troops would seem to be either wanton killers or easily panicked. Either way, not someone I'd want at my back.

Well, considerin' that it is a favorite technique of eeevil doers to hide behind a screen of women and children and engage "western" troops (if France can still be called that) on camera in order to draw return fire and kill "innocent" victims, I am not going to venture an opinion as to the perfidity of French troops as there is not enough information available for me.

#246,

AP story on Allawi cousin released

I'm just now DLing pt1 of the video. I saw pt2, and I can't feel comfortable accusing the French of an unprovoked massacre (not that it would surprise me were it true). That said, however, the deafening silence of the MSM and UN is very telling: any US or Israeli event like this would crowd out all other media for days.

Maybe pt1 will clear things up in my mind?

Thanks Thom,

That looks like the incident.

What kind of place are we talking about here. The evacuation point is a luxury hotel, but after the shooting there are no ambulances or emergency vehicles (that I saw.)

I'm surprised there's so little coverage.

Hey CJ you posted the same link twice

Again, people have posted stills from the video and blown them up on FreeRepublic. There are french soldiers on the ground on either side of the tanks firing weapons. There is also a photo of a sniper in the window of the tall building behind them.

I do not have the ability to post them or even isolate them. My computer & connection is probably the slowest one here. It is best to download the file and then run it for a clearest view.

I can see no reason to fire into the crowd unless the crowd was threatening. If it was only a few people shooting from the crowd, why did so many unarmed people get shot? The same with the sniper. I would think he wouldn't have missed his target so many times if he was only trying to hit people shooting at the French military.

All we got is audio. Does anybody know what the big bang near the beginning was? It was something much stronger than automatic rifle fire. And from which side? Someone mentioned a UN car burning? Would the French soldiers set it ablaze?

Oh, and as someone else pointed out, look how nonchalant the French are when they pull out at the end on the tanks. No where do they appear afraid for their lives. Again, it makes me think the crowd was not a threat and at the most, there may have been a few troublemakers. Still no reason to shoot at everybody.

#266 jooly, please listen to the audio at the biginning and (anybody) identify the weapon(s) that makes such a sound...

Nuke France and the bloodthirsty, war-mongering French. sigh...snooze...snooorrring now...Breaking News: Nov. 21, 2004, A passenger named on the terrorist no-fly list was allowed by France to board a U.S.-bound flight./ shocked disbelief, guffaws/ sarc.

#267 Roger

Which tape? Plus, that is out of my expertise.

#269 jooly, it's out of my expertise too. I've only downloaded about twenty percent of the second half. At the beginning of the shooting by automatics there are sounds like a stronger single blast and a little bit later another one. I was hoping someone on the thread would hear and identify. The amount of the video I saw is worthless. The camera goes thru dizzying cirlces in the trees but the audio seems to be the only real information about what started the whole mess. (I quit looking at the video but listened to the audio by itself).

Someone with bandwidth needs to download this and host it. This guy's site is crawling. This message is too important to have stuck in a cyber traffic jam.

Some stills would be useful, a lot of people (like me) have no chance in hell of d/ling something that big.

This needs to be cast far and wide; why can't we have Fox run this on a loop all day?

Roger/Ferrethouse/Tim:

The shooters are in part one. I think someone is trying to convert it to a smaller file but I wouldn't count on them. I finally was able to download it by doing it overnight. Possibly, there were less people accessing the server. And I will say for the umpteenth and last time, there are enlarged stills posted on freerepublic that show soldiers shooting. If you want to see them, go there.

3 possible explanations from the French:

"Why should those filthy arrogant Americans have all the fun?"

"They're unarmed, we may not have to surrender, for once"

media explanation in France once word gets out:

"We spared those poor armless individuals the life of misery and despare they would have endured having no arms. We did this for mercy."

The video's so huge because it's raw mpeg. That's insanely bad for bandwidth.

I was able to get it down to just over 1/4 of the size by converting it to WMV without sacrificing much quality; unfortunately I don't have a reliably high-traffic server to host it.

If someone out there has the utility for producing Realplayer video, they could probably get it down even smaller than that.

I agree with #271; it is important to get this video out.

As a thought... If someone has downloaded this, then converted it to something a bit more managable in size, you could post it up on a Kazaa-type file-sharing link. With a few mirror sites helping out, the download would be reasonably fast, and the word could spread a bit more easily. And isn't that what Kazaa is really for? Instead of stealing MP3 music files?

Whether what the French did was contrary to their Rules of Engagement may never be known. However, it looks pretty bad, and should be investigated.

And it's pretty ugly to see what a heavy, high-velocity round does when your face is at the exit point of the bullet.

DaveK

#234 Spiny Norman
I was led to AdAware a few days ago when I read the Phishing thread. I downloaded it for kicks. When I ran it, it found over 400 "objects". I was able to quarantine & remove them.
Then I downloaded Firefox. No problems so far & I do feel a bit more secure.