Sounds like he wants to be the next Geraldo

Maybe he would change his professional opinion if he was on the other of the camera(muzzel)

The terrorist who was shot was at no time subdued. T

he terrorist was not in handcuffs. He was not under arrest.

In fact, the terrorist was playing dead, which is why he was shot.

A terrorist is a terrorist is a terrorist and the armed forces have every right to take any and all measures to insure their own safety. Creep.

OT
just reminding ppl 9:00 EST fox news is having a must see special

He's not too impressed with himself, is he?

Maybe the ridiculous practice of having Dan Rather clones along with the troops will be discontinued because of this episode.

Oh! That makes all the difference in the world. The insurgent was subdued!

I didn't detect that nuance in the tape.

Subdued like in he was in handcuffs and the Marines were confident he wasn't going to blow up in their faces? This is not like a kung fu movie where the bad guys politely wait their turn to kick at Jackie Chan. These are the sh*ts who will wire up babies to explode or hide bombs under dead bodies, or set off a 2nd wave of bombs once the first responders arrive to help the wounded.

Kevin Sites makes me sick.

if winning is important, why was he even there in the first place?

The purpose of the embedded journalists was, ironically enough, to demonstrate that the US doesn't committ war crimes. However, when you have journalists like Sites who will release content without context, you subvert the process.

TO: Charles Johnson
RE: Okay...

Sites on 'point'. Gordon walks 'slack'.

Regards,

Chuck(le)

Once it was on tape and others knew about it, what else could he do?

The tape could have had an "accident."

he should of just burned the video. that's what he could of done.

Other END of the camera (muzzle
Sorry...

The point of all this is- these guys are being used, whether they like it or not as enemy propaganda and recruitment. And I think Sites is full of crap, because his "true" video is being used to distort the truth, by it's use in the more than obvious Al Jazera propaganda/islamofascist recruitment assault.

As a matter of remedy:
Sites should be deported from Iraq.

New rules should be emplaced that all journalists in country must be vetted and licensed. No license means arrest, trial and deportation.

Take part in the jihadist recruitment/proganda machine? Instantly lose license and be fined.

Journalism with no license? Arrest, trial, large monetary fine, then go home.

The monetary fines should be massive and the money should go directly back into the Iraqi economy via education and security.

The burdens of war, as you so well know, are unforgiving for all of us.

Sorry, I can't read the rest of his post hoc sophistry to explain away his treason. Narcacistic bastard.

Sombitch better quickly figure out where he lives and why he has the freedom to be there in the first place, or get the hell out of America.

If this glory seeking pri*k isn't careful it could be his ID these guys are holding in the near future. I think he has the idea like a lot of journo's that they are invincible whilst behind the lens.

So we shouldn't allow reporters to travel with our troops because they might actually report what they see?

Come on, Charles, you're kidding. Right?

so i decided to err on the side of the LEFT and sent the tape immediately to al jeera

Let al-Kevin personally and up close, check each body or "prisioner".

Why do the MSM think they have a G-d given right to have a camera and a mike in a war zone? Because no one has told them otherwise. The American military should learn a lesson from this and in future forbid ANY/ANY MSN in the war zone!! Would that be possible?

I'm still betting he does not make it back.

Problem is these guys won't show the barbarity of corrupt regimes because then they would lose "access".

"The burdens of war, as you so well know, are unforgiving for all of us."

If Sites was by my unit, I would start giving him the "burden" of securing "unarmed" prisoners. He shouldnt complain because there is no danger. See a white flag send in Sites to secure them that way he can feel like he saved a few "insurgents" from the evil US soldiers.

60 Minutes, now.

They are trying to drive up the casualty count of the Iraq war to say the 'human cost' of the war is too high.

They want accidents, illnesses, etc. added to combat casualties.

Pathetic.

manofaiki

Embedding journalists with the allied troops in Iraq is the most dangerous element of this war. Journalists have been known to reveal the allies position, along with how many troops have been deployed and what their weaknesses are. Some photojournalists are also know to have helped the enemy, just so they can get a picture of allies being killed!

The enemy have no standards, shoot from behind the white flag of surrender, fight from hospitals, schools and mosques, wear no uniform and hide amongst the civilian population. When our leaders start to acknowledge we're at war with Islamic jihadis, then and only then will they be able to win... but first get rid of these treacherous reporters!

How much longer can the allies fight with one hand tied behind their back???

By adding illnesses, traffic accidents, psychiatric cases, etc. 60 minutes can drive up the casualty count by about 20,000, or so they claim.

They DEMAND to know why the Pentagon is under-reporting casuaties.

It's Vietnam all over again.

manofaiki

#11 jooly 11/21/2004 04:28PM PST

Once it was on tape and others knew about it, what else could he do?
The tape could have had an "accident."

he should have turned the tape over to the CO in charge of the marine in question, then request a copy for his exclusive.

Exactly GrassyKnoll_1963

when he was subdued he was your responsibility

How the hell does this guy know what "subdued" is...was the islamist bastard that blew up our marine, shortly before "subdued"? The islamist bastards waving white flags are "subdued", according to his definiton. When they commence firing under that white flag, are they unsubdued?

What horseshit, mr. sites if you ever return, your last name, may be exactly what you will be...in "sites".

This God Damn leftist msm...must be tamed.

#17 mr_crash_davis

So we shouldn't allow reporters to travel with our troops because they might actually report what they see?

And yelling "FIRE" in a crowded theatre isn't wrong either?

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

I wish the Marines would have shot every single [bigoted word] in that place.

#17 mr_crash_davis

Reporters and photojournalists should be in a war zone at their own risk and not embedded with the allied troops to whom they've done more harm than good!

Now they are interviewing a soldier who developed mental problems from having to Kill people in the war in Iraq.

The Hunted with Tommy Lee Jones and Benicio Del Toro comes to life!

manofaiki

I agree with Charles.

I thought this part of the blog was interesting:

During the course of these events, there was plenty of mitigating circumstances like the ones just mentioned and which I reported in my story. The Marine who fired the shot had reportedly been shot in the face himself the day before.

I'm also well aware from many years as a war reporter that there have been times, especially in this conflict, when dead and wounded insurgents have been booby-trapped, even supposedly including an incident that happened just a block away from the mosque in which one Marine was killed and five others wounded. Again, a detail that was clearly stated in my television report.

No one, especially someone like me who has lived in a war zone with you, would deny that a solider or Marine could legitimately err on the side of caution under those circumstances. War is about killing your enemy before he kills you.

when the Iraqi man in the mosque posed a threat, he was your enemy; when he was subdued he was your responsibility

Who the hell does this Sites idiot think he is being able to distinguish between posing a threat and being subdued.

And what the hell is this business about calling a terrorist an Iraqi man in the mosque?

People like Sites just get my bloodpressure boiling.
What the hell was he doing there in the first place?
I thought the military had learned a lesson from taking idiots like Geraldo Rivera out into combat zones.

I wonder if there are tapes of the terrorists waving white flags or feigning surrender before opening fire which haven't made the news. Just seems strange that there are multiple sources reporting these incicdents- even the news reporters themselves- and there aren't any videos of it. It is only the isolated American incidents that get the airplay. There's a good cover-up conspiracy to look into.

This asshole went to Iraq for the same reason Kerry went to Viet Nam--to make a name for himself.

Yea right compare what he says with his own full length video... for christs sake he was asking the woulnded terrorist what happened!
Hes pushing an agenda which is'nt working and now he's attempting damage control.
Check it out and decide for yourselve, I already have!

[Link: www.unit731media.com...]

#17 mr_crash_davis

So we shouldn't allow reporters to travel with our troops because they might actually report what they see?

First post... Hmmm... Kevin, is that you?

24 manofaiki

That's just like saying the number of casualties resulting from hurricanes increase each day with traffic accidents due to missing signals, etc.

These sob's are incredible. War is war, and people die. How many more would still be dying if we had never gone in? The number would be much larger, as you know. Granted, fewer Americans, but we have to remind everyone we talk to that ours is a voluntary force.

thanks

The whole point of this latest 60 minutes hit piece is to 'prove' the Pentagon is under-reporting 'the human cost' of the War in Iraq by not adding soldiers killed or injured in accidents or by illness to the casualty totals.

Just another example of the MSM trying to say this war is 'costing too much' and America needs to 'rethink' what it's doing there.

The journalist goes on to claim the Pentagon is 'misleading' America because it's casualty figures aren't high enough because they don't include guys who lost legs in traffic accidents like one guy they interviewed on the segment tonight.

Well excuse me. The military MAKES IT VERY CLEAR when they release figures that the 'under-reported figure the reporter was waving around was COMBAT CASUALTIES.

The reporter then does the CLASSIC BAIT AND SWITCH by pretending there's SOMETHING SHADY GOING ON because guys who developed mental problems from killing or got hurt in traffic accidents are...GASP!!!...not included in the Pentagon's casualty figures for the Iraq War!

Let's blast these pompous jerks once and for all.

They STILL don't get it.

manofaiki

I suspect the reason for embedding reporters is to protect the vast majority of soldiers from rumors and propaganda from our enemies. The key to this video is to not have it edited to become propoganda. If viewed in the context of the situation, one is not likely to jump to the conclusion that is implied in the edited version shown on TV. All in all, the leadership of our troops have faith that they will do what is right and moral, and that is worth recording.

Just in case anyone is a little confused by all of this. Here is great link that might straighten out your thinking some. This puts everything in the proper perspective.

[Link: www.coastalwebdesign.com...]

I can’t really blame Sites for releasing the video to the pool. Once it was on tape and others knew about it, what else could he do?

You're far more forgiving than myself. 

Here's what I would have done with that footage of a Marine killing a terrorist:

1) Accidentally hit the rewind, record buttons, erasing the last 30 seconds of tape.

2) Dropped the tape onto the ground, and stomped it into the dust.

3) Lit the tape on fire with a lighter.

Any reporter who didn't do this, and instead provided the footage to anti-American propaganda mill al-Jazeera, has provided aid and comfort to the enemy.

Now, if a journalist has no issues with providing aid and comfort to America's enemies, than I have no issues with Marines 'accidentally' leaving him behind in Falluja.

Chuck Pelto in #10 pretty much sums things up.
 

Patient: Kevin Sites

Diagnosis: Inflated journalist ego

Rx: Lead enema

Media Help Terrorists Ambush and Kill American Soldiers

CBS’s Mike Wallace and ABC’s Peter Jennings during a 1989 forum on PBS. The two network stars agreed that if they were traveling with enemy troops and learned of an ambush planned to kill U.S. soldiers they would not provide any warning.

Rumsfeld claims media are receiving terror tip-offs

Kevin Sites is so low he's French low.

Considering that he felt the death was his responsibility, I find it odd that he didn't seem to have any interest in filming the body right after the incident. I don't even know if he ever did. And the other wounded thug seemed not to be all that horrified by the incident...although, he seemed to make sure everyone knew he wasn't faking.

I actually don't mind that he was there or that he released the tape. Because there is nothing wrong on that tape.

An unsecured combatant whose condition was unknown (armed? wounded?) did something highly suspect and the Marine had a moment to decide.

What I mind is that somewhere along the line, and I have no reason to believe it didn't start with Sites, the story became that the combatant was wounded, wasn't armed, wasn't booby-trapped and that this was somehow supposed to be immediately obvious to the Marine. Sites himself said the man appeared to him (Sites) to pose no threat. He started the 180 degree spin on this.

The most significant evidence here of all is that there was another man that wasn't shot, a man the Marine had to walk past to get to the man he shot. If the Marine was really some blood-thirsty murderer shooting unarmed men for NO REASON, why not shoot them both or the nearest?

So now this piece of filthy trash (sites) pronounces himself to be the holy judge and jury of our fighting soldiers.

He obviously has a death wish of his own. May he get his wish.

OT,

Not quite a usual car swarm in Ramallah, in that the guys in the car were simply shot, and not blasted into "crispy martyr bits."

(One apparently still visible in the vehicle? Or is that a souvenir hunter Balestinian EMT?)

If there were no embedded reporters and hence no reporting on the event in any capacity, the public would demand reporting. Without any reporters, there would be massive claims of some type of cover-up, especially in the age of the internet.

The central problem is our view of the nature of war. I have no problem with what happened, because that is what happens in war -- people get shot. I don't know about the degree of communication between units on the ground in Falluja, but even if it were picture perfect, there is not way for a soldier, under the stress of combat, to keep all the information strait. Hsees someone that looks like an enemy, he shoots. While my understanding is the person killed was technically a hostage, he didn't have a sign on his neck saying so.

The problem is the American public wants war to be a squeeky clean, no innocents killed operation. The high-tech nature of war has only highlighted that desire. But, to quote a civil war general war means fighting, and fighting means killing."

Regarding the reporter, if he is there, he is going to report on what he sees -- good and bad. That is his job.

if winning is important, why was he even there in the first place?

Exactly! Perhaps we ought to initiate an "Ernie Pyle test" for embedded journalists?

Ernie Pyle

A typical confusion by journalists. Too many think they make history rather than just noting it.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Cameras have no business spying on our troops, whether they are enemy spy cameras, or corporate sponsored spy cameras.

Get rid of them, or put them in the hands of sergeants and corporals and specialists.

The man should have left well enough alone. I swear this does not help. Besides it is not his place to judge that young man.

The whole point is the Marine could only know after the fact that the guy was not going to blow up and Sites had to know that. Why do you think the bastard was so far away? It was not as if he was standing side by side with the Marine.

The operation was going well and he just had to eff it up. Could not stand some positive news for a change.

His responsibility is to give an accurate picture of what he sees, it is not to act as propaganda tool for the enemy.

I know people are getting killed over there, he did not tell me anything new, all he did was give Aljazeera some new material.

Not one soldier should have to be responsible for this bastard ever again. Let him ask Zarqawi to escort his ass around. If he is going to give aid and comfort he might as well be honest about it, since honesty is so damn important to the self serving asshole.

As for 60 Minutes, ignore them, remember the source.

Cameras have been on the battlefield since the Civil War, and before that, painters and stonecutters depicted war images.

They have ALWAYS been a part of war. The images can be staged, or "real", and spun to either end, but they are a near essential part of war. To completely shut out this eye from/for the public, is to try and fight an unseen war, which doesn't follow todays technology, or interests.

#43 William,

having the tape out in the open might not be such a bad thing.

I am still hoping that most people will come around and recognise this video for what it is. It shows a terrorist, who was trying to kill Americans from within the refuge of a mosque, who then pretended to be dead in order to possibly try and kill more Americans, and who finally got what he deserved.

Dar ul Harb
I believe the dude in the car saw a replacement dome light that would fit his car.

LULULULULULULightbulb!

Kevin sites has a rather inflated opinion of his responsability, of himself, and of imortality in a combat zone. He may become wiser, for an instant, if he were to become no older.

By pretending to be dead, this terrorist that was shot in the head was not surrendering.

Too many people don't understand how a soldier on a battlefield operates under far different rules than a police officer.

If an unarmed man charges a police officer, and the officer knocks the man to the ground, then draws his weapon and shoots him in the head, he gets sent to prison.

If an officer surprises a knife wielding assailant, and draws his weapon whent he assailant is still far enough away not to pose an instant mortal threat, and shoots him in the head without giving a warning, he gets sent to prison.

If an officer enters a building in a SWAT situtaion when a barricaded hostage taker has been firing out of windows and has supposedly been incapacitated by tear gas, and he finds the guy lying on the floor not moving, and he draws his weapon and shoots the guy in the head, he goes to prison.

If a soldier enters a building on a battlefield that has hostiles in it, none of whom have surrendered, and one of them is so injured he can't move and is unconscious, and the soldier shoots him in the head, he goes to prison.

If a soldier enters a building on a battlefield that has hostiles in it, none of whom have surrendered, and one of them holds his hands up and tries to surrender, and the soldier shoots him in the head, he goes to prison.

If a soldier enters a building on the battlefield that has hostiles in it, none of whom have surrendered, and one of them lies down and pretends to be dead in order to draw the soldier close so he can jump him or take him out with a hidden weapon, and the soldier shoots him in the head without getting close, he's done his job.

If a soldier enters a building on the battlefield that has hostiles in it, none of whom have surrendered, and one of them lies down and pretends to be dead, he has not surrendered, does not intend to surrender, and he is therefore 'still in the fight' legally. So that soldier could have dropped a fucking grenade on him if felt like it.

Who can't tell the difference in the above examples?

Mainstream journalists like Kevin Sites, that's who.

A SOLDIER IS NOT A POLICE OFFICER AND IF YOU ARE NOT SURRENDERING YOU ARE STILL A COMBATANT AND IF YOU GET SHOT DEAD IT'S YOUR OWN FAULT.

manofaiki

Sir Lurksalot #22. Yes, sadly this is the case.

In general, it doesn't matter if it's Kevin Sites this last week or all the MSM who prostituted themselves for years to have "access" to Saddam Hussein's Iraq, the point remains that they all report "within the context of no context" or...worse.

Their explanations are shameless. But then, they have no shame.

At that point the Marine who fired the shot became aware that I was in the room. He came up to me and said, "I didn't know sir-I didn't know." The anger that seemed present just moments before turned to fear and dread.

How does Sites know at exactly what moment the Marine became aware of his presence? Are we to take his word for it?

#42 riverofpearls

Thank you, thank you for the link. Amazing how images can make it all clear ;)

The islamists white flag of surrender -
[Link: flagspot.net...]

Our troops need to briefed that a white flag for the jihadis don't mean what we think it does... and thet jihadis know this.

I have no real problem with embedded reporters or photographers. Indeed, I find it important. I even have little problem when bad things DO happen that it is properly taken care of.

What IS wrong is that Sites has set himself up as arbitrator and judge. In the first reports he himself is quoted as describing the 'insurgent' as a "wounded, unarmed prisoner."

Now, that could have just be a dumb thing to say if I were to give him the benefit of a doubt. However, now days later, he comes forth again to editorialize what was going on instead of reporting. Old-school 5WH reporters just reported the facts ...ALL the facts including fact of context and let the readers draw their own conclusions. What Sites seems to represent is the newer "advocacy" journalist who picks and chooses among facts in order to present "The Truth" to his/her audience who s/he basically holds in contempt as too stupid or simple to get the "correct" conclusion on their own.

Sites own "reporting" was compounded by the eager home-side MSM out to prove again how awful and thuggish and eager to engage in "war crimes" the US military is ...

Adding traffic accidents and such to the Iraqi casualty count? Good grief!

Why don't they just gather the casualty count for armed service personnel stateside. Accidents, training deaths, suicides, shot at the local 7-11 walking in on a robbery, slipped in the shower, etc. Heck include 'em all.

Show how "evil" it is just having standing forces.

hs:

Tell that to AlJazeera and the Arab street.

Charles - you say you can't blame Sites for releasing the video to the pool. Well, I sure as Hell can!!! He is a traitor to the Marines he so carefully photographs. He has no excuse. None whatsoever.

We should bring all the embeds back and set them about the business of photographing civilians instead of our brave SO
brave soldiers.

String the SOB up by the thumbs.

Nedra

#42 riverofpearls

Thanks for the link--very powerful. I am still crying...

#53 Max Darkside:

A typical confusion by journalists. Too many think they make history rather than just noting it.

Yes! Exactly. Rush had some clips of Carol(e?) Simpson saying basically the same thing a couple of weeks ago. Something about becoming a journalist to "change the world." And Rush responded with something like, "Huh, I thought they were supposed to report on what's going on in the world." Or words to that effect.

[Curious] Onlurker

I have to agree with Terrye here. Sites' open letter hasn't helped, except to expose him as inappropriately judgmental. Worse yet, he closes with a sentiment that sounds to me like he's trying to include himself as a victim of the heat of combat while trying to serve the high ideal of TRUTH. Oh, please. Where is his video of 'Iraqi men' waving white flags, then openning fire, or booby-trapped bodies? Where does he say his own judgment to release the tape might have been questionable?

I bet the Devil Dogs of the 3.1 (God Bless them) just loved getting this letter. HA!

OT

Cameras or not, the re-writing of history continues:

Time for History Lessons for Arabs and Americans

The Cold War divided our Arab nation and put us in opposing camps, fighting each other more than fighting the enemy. Meanwhile Israel developed from a gang of Zionists, terrorizing Palestinian villages and murdering women and children into a major nuclear power that is now, through its superpower ally, the US, terrorizing the entire region.

The Americans have a similar record of failure in their history classes as well. In two hundred and twenty-eight years of independence, the Americans have been engaged in two hundred wars. Since the end of World War II, America has waged wars in 22 countries. A century and a half since the end of black slavery and forty years after the civil rights struggle, the race struggle continues. Black and Latino ghettos in American cities are filled with drugs, gang wars and economic failures. Still in the circles of power, few questions are asked and even fewer solutions discussed. History might yet be repeated.

#51 hs

Regarding the reporter, if he is there, he is going to report on what he sees -- good and bad. That is his job.

hs, it is not a reporters job to intentionally release a tape to the world that he knows will eventually cause more deaths of US soldiers as a result of such a tape.

Sites is proven to be an anti-war advocate. Sites knew exactly what he was doing. He even admits it here:

when he was killed in front of my eyes and my camera — the story of his death became my responsibility.

How dare you or anyone on this thread defend this piece of shit.

Sites is scared. He knows he betrayed the Marines that he was imbedded with and that had pulled his butt out of the fire many times and he knows Marines don't abide traitors.

I'm afraid you are wrong on this one, Charles.

Would you rather not know what your countrymen are doing overseas? Full discloser is the appropiate things. Nobody said war was pretty. You gotta face it in its full harsh reality. Even the good guys make mistakes (not necessarily this one), and they should be acknowledged and solved.

That it is spun in one way or another is a separate issue; proposing to simply not reporting things is a mistake.

In the past few years, the media in the United States have somehow come to believe that they are world-citizens with no real responsibility toward their fellow Americans or their country - but instead, they see themselves as having allegiance to the "truth" - an allegiance and right that derive from the First Amentment. The media tell us that it is their responsibility to report the truth to the American public so that we (the unwashed masses) can make decisions.

The fact is that when Americans do make decisions based upon the "truth" as they see it (like re-electing President Bush), they are ridiculed by the media and the liberal elite as being idiot Bible-thumpers. The primary reason they are ridiculed is because polls consistently reveal that as much as 80 percent of people involved in the media "industry" consider themselves to be liberal, and vote for Democrats, while 51 percent of Americans most recently voted otherwise. Most of the people I know didn't just vote for "Dubya" - they also voted against John Kerry, Dan Rather, Peter Jennings, Michael Moore, Barbra, the Dixie Chicks, Jacques Chirac, Osama, et. al.

Still, what I find perplexing are the two extremes. The right would destroy the media in order to "save" the country. The left would destroy the country to "save" the media.

Of course, ratings continue to primary factor in "saving" the media. Not even the "truth" can trump the almighty dollar when it comes to getting out the story. If you don't believe that, try to watch ESPN for five minutes without seeing the NBA brawl in Detroit.

And that's the way it is, right Uncle Walter?

#75 Patrizio

I guess your years of combat experience has brought you to this conclusion?

The problem is not so much Sites and the footage as it is the MSM spin on it, the al-Jazeera/Arab Street spin on it, and worst of all the Pentagon/Administration spin on it.

I don't see anything that requires apology or investigation. War is hell. Marines on the battlefield break things and kill people. If the turd was lucky to have survived fighting the USMC the day before...well, his luck ran out. Better his than that Marine's.

The response from the bottom to the top should be: "Yeah. So what? Deal with it. Expect more of it, if need be."

That Marine deserves our undivided and unconditional support, as well as our gratitude.

@10 Chuck Pelto

Amen with a double tap!

You can't blame a snake for being a snake - thats what he is. The problem is with whoever made the decision to emplace embeds in the first place. This is a simple fix - US Army/Marine combat photographers document the action and then it is released to the press ala Gulf War I.

If the press has ass enought to go out on their own - then they pays their money and takes their chances. I hope they don't end up down range.

I have dealt with the press for cose to twenty years in police work - they are all snakes - feed them from a distance - don't invite them into your home.

#57 hm . . .

I am still hoping that most people will come around and recognise this video for what it is. It shows a terrorist, who was trying to kill Americans from within the refuge of a mosque, who then pretended to be dead in order to possibly try and kill more Americans, and who finally got what he deserved.

The reporter/photographer obviously wants to make a name for himself and thinks that he can be the judge of the marine. Yes, I do wish him ill. He should go to hell.

That being said, I think it's probably OK that the video is shown. (1) as someone earlier said, it shows that the U.S. military does follow certain rules. (2) It forces the viewer to think about the dangers that the U.S. military is facing. (3) It gives a little lesson to those who think that the U.S. military won't shoot THEM.

People like Sites live in a strange world. He's not responsible for anything, and yet he makes the job harder for the U.S. military. Even though he's playing "tough guy," he's still just one of those play-acting tourists, not a real grown-up.

It's funny how one can divide many of the political situations of today into "grown-ups" v. "children." If Sites' real world came crashing down on him, he would be the first to complain.

#56 balisong

Read post #73, it pertains to you as well.

"when he was subdued he was your responsibility..."
---
Define "subdued". Does it include faking death so as to attack later, or even fight another day? Mr. Sites doesn't know what he's talking about.

OT but I just learned today from my daughter Heather that close friends of hers, identical twin brothers, are leaving next week -- they've joined the Navy and are going into training with the SEALS. If you find a quiet moment please say a little prayer for Tucker and Dillon's safe keeping.

#84 Darleen

My son leaves for Navy Basic Training next Sunday. You might say a prayer for him too.

Well go look at the photos yourself. Dying alone on the floor of a dusty mosque at the hands of an American soldier does not look like a big recruiting tool to me. But, hell, I wouldn't be a suicide bomber either so what do I know?

The above quote is from my site. You can read more of my thoughts on the subject here.

In any case the seethers are already seething. So are they going into the 200% or 300% seethe mode?

Will this video make them rush to Iraq to die in an effort to kill Marines? I hope so.

I do not see the down side of this video.

Since so few fighters live to tell the tale we have to have some way of getting the word out to the jihadis.

Double tap and move on.

The jihadis need to see the Marines not only at their most engaging behavior but also their most ruthless. It might give one or two of them something to think about.

While Sites is a POS by his own words. He has done little wrong in this case.The Marine did everything right. Sites released a tape of a justifiable killing in a war zone. It's the MSM that is spinning this.

I for one, have no problem with imbedded reporters.

JohnAnnArbor #83

Subdued(sub-dood):

Still a murderous bastard with every intent to kill, kill, kill, but wounded so that slightly less lethal.

/moonbat dictionary 2004

Darleen, Saying my prayers for them and all who serve.

#51 hs

The problem is the American public wants war to be a squeeky clean, no innocents killed operation.

I think you've misinterpreted public opinion there, hs. Polls leading up to the war showed strong support for bombing but lukewarm support for a ground invasion. Bottom line: We don't want our guys killed, but don't mind sledgehammering jihadis and their moms out of existence in a bulk, wholesale manner.

People are at least intuitively aware that Islam was unnaturally spread by means of mass slaughter and forced conversion. In the ongoing clash of civilizations, a whole lot of killin is gonna have to happen before the march of the jihadi demon from the deepest depths of hell is stopped.

My problem with Sites is the way he juxtaposed himself into the story. Not only showing what happened by editorializing as well. Embed can be useful idiots but, when they become the story it has gone wrong.

Here's what I'm glad for. I'm glad that our troops serving in Iraq are far more professional than to even consider "leaving (Mr. Sites) in Fallujah." I'm glad that the incident shown on Mr. Sites tape was not representative of how our troops treat Iraqis, even wounded terrorists. I'm glad that most people in this country, anyway, know that the marine depicted in that tape was aware that some of the terrorists were feigning death, and had hand grenades or other explosive devices strapped to themselves, just waiting to become martyrs.

And I'm glad as hell I'm not as bitter as some of the people who leave comments on this site. Frankly, many of you make me sick. This war is far too important to suffer gladly fools who use terms like "[bigoted word]" without censure. To the extent we are better than the enemy: and we *are* better than the enemy, make no mistake, we need to speak up when people who are ostensibly on our side say shit like that.

I'm not worried that the French are going to be offended. I'm not worried that we'll step on the toes of the ACLU, or the United Nations, or any of the other irrelevant international organizations that would seek to limit our ability to defend ourselves.

I'm worried about winning the war. And some of the utterly vile shit I've read in the comments to this website since 9/11 is not helping. The sooner some of you realize that, the better.

Here's my advice: feel like making a racist comment? Keep it to yourself. Feel like saying, "I hope that reporter from Al Jazeera gets shot by a marine?" Keep it to yourself. Feel like saying, "Those Democrats/Euro-weenies/etc. need a bullet in the head?" Keep it to your fucking self. Because for all the allegations about how this Sites guy is a "traitor" giving "aid and comfort to the enemy," it's really people like you giving us a black eye, and alienating the people in THIS country who would otherwise support the war. If I was paranoid, I'd think most of you were Democratic party plants, a la the "Rove conspiracy" theories going around on the left wing.

You're part of the problem, not part of the solution. Think I'm wrong? Think I'm a sissy? Take your cue from our president, who has the balls and the brains to both stand tall in the international arena, and not make an ass of himself by making ignorant, racist, psychopathic comments.

In short, and to be specific in my condemnation, posts by #15, #21, #28, #30, #43, #44, #49 are what I'm talking about. We're better than the enemy, and this Nation is better than you, and God Bless the United States of America for it.

I've read so many incidents like this over the past week that I can't believe he's claiming the man was subdued.
Two men from region killed in Iraq

Marine Lance Cpl. Jeramy Ailes, 22, of Gilroy was killed Monday in Al-Fallujah by small arms fire.

``They had finished mopping up in Fallujah and they went back to double-check on some insurgents. From what we gathered, somebody playing possum jumped up and shot him,'' said his father, Joel Ailes, who learned of his death Monday evening. ``It's extremely hard.''

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml= /opinion/2004/11/21/do2106.xml&sSheet=/opinion /2004/11/21/ixop.html

Lance Corporal Ian Malone and Piper Christian Muzvuru, 1st Battalion, Irish Guards, RIP, took no such precautions in Basra in April last year. They simply ignored the body of the dead fedayeen fighter as they dismounted from their Warrior armoured fighting vehicle - and it, being on a suicide mission, promptly rose up and shot them both, before itself being blown apart. Thenceforth, the "Micks" probably made it their business to re-kill every corpse they saw.

He says he can't understand why they didn't kill the others if they felt threatened. Froggy Ruminations suspects they didn't kill the others because he was there. Makes sense to me.
Some Additional Reflections on Fallujah

Having these embeds is dangerous to the troops.

THE DEADLY PRICE OF EMBEDDING

A number of sources at the Pentagon have told me that most of the troops on the ground in Iraq view the embedded reporters as an obstacle to their mission who occasionally put their lives in danger with their tactics. One example comes from the first few days of the war, a battle with Iraqi forces aired live by all the cable networks. As I watched the battle live at 3 a.m. East Coast time, I was shocked to see reporters trying to interview soldiers as they fired on the enemy. These soldiers had to turn from the enemy to face the embedded journalist, thereby putting their own lives in danger to take a question. And after the four-hour battle, the troops' commander observed that, had the TV cameras not been there, then the fighting would have been concluded in 15 minutes.

Speaking of the anti-American slant of journalists:

I went to the "International Socialist Conference" in Berkeley yesterday, which was held at the UC Berkeley Journalism School (where else?). But it was so pathetic I didn't even bother making a zombie report out of it. I mean, they even had two lefty celebrities on hand: Peter Camejo and Alexander Cockburn. Yet even they couldn't rouse any enthusiasm. and I swear there were no more than 35 people at the entire conference, tops. Mostly communist UC Berkeley professors and over-eager brainwashed students from SF State and Cal, along with the usual assortment of burned-put unemployed semi-insane losers. It was so depressing I even skipped out before the "Introduction to Leninism: Why We Need a Revolution" seminar and various other events supporting the mass-murdering jihadi lunatics of Fallujah. The overriding message of the day was: America=bad.

I did take some pictures of the participants milling around, but in the end it was just completely a waste of time. So I wonder: is the left, as in Toronto (see the previous thread), exploding with extremism and excitement, or, as in Berkeley, totally defeated and on the way to to Graveyard of Sad Deflated Balloons?

#86 M. Simon

Double tap and move on.

Exactly. If you can't stand the heat, stay the hell off the battlefield.

i read his whole article. He would have been better off destroying the tape as he was for a moment inclined to do.

giving my now educated distrust of MSM and disbelief in anything al geezria. Given the nature of the political mission of terrorism and their methods. I think Kevin is then assigned the responsibility to think outside of the box in regards to his lifes work. The country is going to experience a reverse political correctness as a result of terrorism. Some rights will decline. Kevin is just one of the van guard leaders getting co opted by the enemy, because he relies on principles that can't address islamofascism correctly. We could say that he is a good christian. Or maybe he shouldnt leave home to do his reporting.

OT

Anyone heard about this? Defense Dept.: Only Packages Addressed from 'Known Mailers' to Individual Soldiers Will Be Delivered

This Christmas, most cards and packages sent "to any soldier" will not reach any soldier at all.

Just FYI if any were thinking of sending a generic package.

#92--

Some ARE plants. People post comments just so they can go to other sites and say "look what LGF posted."

Your point is well-taken, though.

What bothers me most is that holier-than-thou Sites never even took the time to consider that the Marine unit was trying to protect themselves - including his posturing nancy-boy ass.

If that “Iraqi” (rumor is now that the horizontal sod was Syrian) was armed (and waiting for the right moment when everybody was bunched in a group – a common underhanded tactic), Sites would have been pushing daisies right now.

If Sites had any real experience covering a prolonged urban combat situation, he’d know that incidents like this can be commonplace – try running around in full battle gear for weeks with all barrels aimed at you from any conceivable direction, operating on a few hours sleep at most, against an enemy not playing by the rules – then make a split-second decision in the hope that it may save one’s own lives.

Here’s hoping the Marines in the field will not be discouraged from carrying out their duties under fire, just because a peon of the MSM is in the area.

#97 Sarah D.
Lady, that's been policy for the last 3 years. As much as I enjoyed the "any service member" packages during DS-1, the security risk is too great.

#85 theparson

Consider it done! Your son is now added to my nightly "God bless.."

I am so proud of so many of my daughters' generation.

#92, R. Peyton

So...this freedom of speech thing...it's okay as long as you agree with what's being said? I don't remember there being any restrictions against saying "racist", stupid things. Lighten up on the PC and go re-read the Bill of Rights. It'll do you good.

#87 I agree the marine was shooting what was probably a dead man to make sure he was no longer a threat - not a war crime - just common sense in that situation. The action should be documented - by the soldiers/marines and kept in context.

You don't see police officers carrying reporters in their patrol cars do you - well, maybe on COPS. But COPS is kind of like TV wrasslin - everybody acts up for the camera.

#92 R Peyton . . .

While I don't agree with many comments on LGF, I would rather hear what people think than follow your instructions to keep it to ourselves. You're rather vile yourself.

You can go elsewhere. Goodbye.

#74 Theparsen

Sites is scared. He knows he betrayed the Marines that he was imbedded with and that had pulled his butt out of the fire many times and he knows Marines don't abide traitors.

I can't imagine that he is still with the Marines. Frankly, after reading his crap and declaring himself holy judge over our troops, I hope he falls as the idol god he has lifted himself up to be.

John:

While he is at it he can define "he was your responsibity".

Considering the fact that the man was alive, if indeed he was, then he was his own responsibility.

Sites also acts like the Marine did not know he was there, what is this? Sneaking around behind some Marine's back?? Is that smart?

Sites knows a lot of people think he screwed up and so he is getting all noble and shit.

bastard.

I'm sorry, but this individual is a self serving, self-aggrandizing prick.

That's it, and that's all.

P.S.: mr_crash_davis, I smell trrrooolll...

#101 Darleen

Thanks, Darleen. His name is Chris if it helps to know.

This "educated moron" is nothing more than a skid mark in the underwear of war.
His response only proves that ,in his eyes, he's the best "protection" FOR the ILLEGAL COMBATANTS!

#102 maumau

Lighten up on the PC and go re-read the Bill of Rights. It'll do you good.

Show me where in Charles' rules racist comments are allowed.

Idiot.

#100 reaganite

Yes, but apparently people are still sending literally tons of mail to our soldiers that way. You'd think that the danged post office would tell them that it's a no go.

#104 Promethea

You're rather vile yourself.

Where was he/she vile?

Some narcissists preen in front of a camera. This one preens behind it.

#110 reganite

Man, you certainly got me there...

Brilliant comeback...

I'll try to see things from your point of view after I can get my head that far up my ass.

#111 Sarah D.

You'd think that the danged post office would tell them that it's a no go.

Actually they have, I don't have a linky though.

Personally I think there are much bigger issues than whether that insurgent was dead or alive and if that Marine did indeed kill him. If he was dead he can't be any more dead, shot once or 10 times. If alive and faking it that Marine would have had no idea of the insurgents intentions - a decision has to be made do I kill him or die with him. Bottom line, dead men can't fight - I'll opt for a dead enemy every time.

#114 maumau
Go ahead, keep proving you are an idiot...

Reaganite

Did you ever post the lowdown on the Bush/SSA deal last night after we woke you up from your well deserved sleep?

Dear Mrs. Sites

I am a Marine. I do not authorize you to use the term we use within our ranks to relate with one another. You using our nickname sounds like UBL saying "can't we all just get along." Some things od not fit.

P.S. Suck my balls.

#85,

My prayers for all our men and women in harms way.

BTW it is really a shame that NTC San Diego is no longer in operation. It was fun sitting by the fence having a smoke and watching the Marines double time.

OTOH as a resident (30 years now) of Illinois it is great to see all our Navy men and women when I go to O'Hare. I'm a bit off the beaten track in Rockford but if moral support is needed you can leave a note at my blog or e-mail me.

The embed program should be ended. In its place, give soldiers more and better access to the 'net and access to email and blogging, including a means to send anonymous messages.

I trust our soldiers to get the truth out much more than I do "journalists".

reganite

Battle of wits??? You're only half armed.

What's next "liar, liar, pants on fire"?

So...this freedom of speech thing...it's okay as long as you agree with what's being said? I don't remember there being any restrictions against saying "racist", stupid things. Lighten up on the PC and go re-read the Bill of Rights. It'll do you good.

Just because you can say something doesn't mean you should. I never even insinuated that you, or anyone like you doesn't have the right to hold your opinions. You either didn't read what I said, or didn't understand it. You can say whatever you want, but if your goal is to win this war, saying "Lets kill all the [bigoted word]s" isn't the best way to go about it.

My point was that if we're supposed to be on the same side, we need to fight the war effectively. "[bigoted word]" comments are counterproductive.

Do you understand my point? What's the counterargument? I'm "PC?" Were people who objected to the term "n*****" PC too? Call it like you see it, by all means, but don't get your panties in a bunch if I call you a racist for using the term "[bigoted word]" or a psychopath for calling on journalists who report with a bias to be killed.

While I don't agree with many comments on LGF, I would rather hear what people think than follow your instructions to keep it to ourselves. You're rather vile yourself.

You can go elsewhere. Goodbye.

And I'd rather call people out for racism than keep my mouth shut.

So which of the comments I thought should be condemned would you rather hear than not? The part about the "[bigoted word]s?" The people who called for this Sites fellow to be killed by our soldiers? Which of those would you rather hear, than not? I'm really curious.

Oh, and I'll let Mr. Johnson decide whether I can go elsewhere.

#118 theparson

Did you ever post the lowdown on the Bush/SSA deal last night after we woke you up from your well deserved sleep?

Not really, just a ton of e-mails. Bottom line is LGF got all the details, except that was at least 100 USSS agents inside already, plus around 50 or so of my guys, plus about the same number of military working dogs...

MauMau, you've made six comments?

Doing well for yourself so far, I see.

//

#102 -- Reread the Bill of Rights. It says nothing about "Charles Shall Make No Rule"; it doesn't apply to private property.

#75 Patrizio

Would you rather not know what your countrymen are doing overseas? Full discloser is the appropiate things. Nobody said war was pretty. You gotta face it in its full harsh reality. Even the good guys make mistakes (not necessarily this one), and they should be acknowledged and solved.

That it is spun in one way or another is a separate issue; proposing to simply not reporting things is a mistake.

Patrizio, Are you speaking from your own Combat experiences from serving in the US Military?

As a combat veteran, did it not bother you when reporters defamed your buddies who died while you were in a fire fight?

The only reason you are defending this reporter is because you have never been in combat.

lazytart

Did you read the new gov'nah of Louisiana is a Kappa Delta?

#122 maumau
At least I can spell.

#120 M Simon

I went through MCRD at "Dago" in '78 and we were right next to the Navy Training Center. They used to stand on the balcony drinking coffee when we PT'd by. We were "cattle carred" over to their chow hall for a while when ours was being remodeled. I just found out they closed it after my son joined the Navy.

If you're inclined to send a package to a soldier there are several sites where soldiers are up for 'adoption, or contributions are accepted. Soldiers' Angels comes to mind.

I say ditch Sites. Break the camera (oops) and let the sucker walk home.

All War is deception.. Ollie North's war stories quoting MacArthur before Pusan.

#127 Blackhorse

Are you speaking from your own Combat experiences from serving in the US Military?

You keep harping this point. So I'll speak from my combat experiences. I do not want to slam a fellow Vet but please back down. We are Americans, not Soviets.

Regainite, Fox new, I think, identified the agent as the senior agent for Pres Bush. I didn't realize that he'd had so many agents inside already, but does that really make a difference?

maumau

Back off. You should have known better to bring up a "freedom of speech" issue on a private blog where you post at Charles' pleasure.

ADDRESS Peyton's points rather than dismiss them with neener neener remarks.

When commentors here DO engage in egregious language IT DOES reflect badly on all of us because ...big surprise ... the LLL monitors these boards just looking for cites to support their continued labeling of LGF as a "racist hate site".

So I'd suggest you remove YOU head from an uncomfortable orafice before you need a glass navel to see.

#124 Reaganite

Yeh, I knew their had to be a bunch of our guys inside already. Our guys are the best, no question about it.
Thanks.

reaganite

Lighten up, Pilgrim.

I don't use racist terms (surely you noticed that), but I don't care if anyone else does. That usually takes care of itself in a public forum. Butmore importantly, I get the impression that you think calling someone a "[bigoted word]" is somehow the moral equivalent of flying an aircraft into a building. For the sake of humanity, say it isn't so.

The marine did the right thing and did so in a gutsy manner. I signed the petition that Charles linked to. Because of the volunteer nature of our armed forces, our soldiers are uniquely likely to be courageous, self-sacrificing, and just plain good of heart.

Also there's no doubt that free speech and a free press can hinder our winning a war by giving aid and comfort to the enemy. So should we restrict press freedom? Maybe.
But, some comments on this thread are an argument for maintaining the freedom of the press- there are a few insecure shits out there who need keeping an eye on.

p.s. agree with #92- well-said

R. Peyton,

I hear ya, but one of the reasons LGF is such a reprieve for many of us is because we come here to vent.

I know, sometimes we say un PC things; many, many times over the top sick commenters are run out of here completely in the course of an evening.

But I really really really don't feel like listening to a lecture.

I think most of the people posting here are adults and ought to be able to speak their peace...

Respectfully-

Excuse me sir, but I couldn’t help but notice that that’s either a very expensive Nikon 70-300mm Zoom Lens you’ve got there; or that Pulitzer Prize Application for Submission of Photographs that your filling out, has you in a bit of telling moment . Thank goodness my wife isn’t here (musing) she’s wanted one of those for a long time. Forgive me again sir, my vision isn’t quite what it use to be, and my Arabic certainly is not on par with your masterful use of the language; but, is that a real Afghan Prayer Rug your kneeling on there sir?

#87 reaganite

It's the MSM that is spinning this.

Bingo! When this incident is put in proper perspective, i.e. that the jihadis are rigging dead and wounded with explosives and Marines have been killed by them, public perception of it is completely different, Kevin Sites or no Kevin Sites.

This c*cksucker is like almost every other LLL out there. I believe you can oppose the war but support the warrior. I know this because my best frien is over here with me. His parents oppose the shhite out of the war but love and support him. That is not debateable.

Sites, Kerry, and others like them are different though. At their core they feel there is something deeply wrong with the military and those who serve. I know, JK was in Nam, ok. I was "borrowing" a HMMWV from the Army and skinned the shite out of my knee...two more of those babies and I can come home and start a political career with some nifty street cred with both the military and the anti-war crowd right?

They purport to love the brave men and women but it does not fool me. The last line of his letter makes me the most sick. He considers himself ablove us, a superior being who has not been brainwashed and in a position to judge...

Enough rational prose...I say again

Suck my balls you pinko, tree hugging, elitest

#135 rabidfox

I didn't realize that he'd had so many agents inside already, but does that really make a difference?

It was a "turf war". I've watched DC cops almost get in a firefight over their "turf".

W just was being W. He took care of his people. I've worked for him for almost 4 years. The best way to end my career.

theparson, I have added your son Chris as well to my prayers.

#92 R Peyton

And I'm glad as hell I'm not as bitter as some of the people who leave comments on this site. Frankly, many of you make me sick.

You're part of the problem, not part of the solution. Think I'm wrong? Think I'm a sissy?

We're better than the enemy, and this Nation is better than you

And you're not bitter? Playing the race card and calling people racists sounds pretty bitter to me. Throwing that lightweight trash around is typical LLL crapola. What's your point; what's your agenda?

darlene

I thought I had addressed reganite's comments. He wants to limit what people can say. I don't.

neener, neener

Peopel who critic my spelling and my grammar and my number of posts are all Bozos.. Bozos are bad. kill all bozos. Be a pal. Segmentation of the enemy is important.

Renna, I had no idea..is it that Blanco woman?

#138 maumau

but I don't care if anyone else does.

Hint: When in a hole, quit digging.

That usually takes care of itself in a public forum.

This is a public forum, until you get banned.

I get the impression that you think calling someone a "[bigoted word]" is somehow the moral equivalent of flying an aircraft into a building.

Really, quit digging, the hole is over your head.

Idiot.

Reganite, you mean that those Chiliean sercurity types KNEW this was a presidential security man and they STILL tried to keep him out? One hell of a turf war they've chosen!

#145 Sli

Thank you very much.

#129 reganite

Woo hoo. Spelling smack. Uncle! Uncle!

#148

It's critique, not critic.

signed - Just another Bozo

#142 Spiny Norman
I'd prefer FNC embeds. Not realistic though, sadly...

#142

Actually Sites first referred to the man as a prisoner and some of the MSM just repeated what he said. This definitely confused the issue and I notice Sites didn't apologize for that in his explanation.

The MSM is dead set against this war. From the very beginning the MSM were making claims that the Americans were not winning in the war against Sadaam. This was proven false about a week later when we took Bhagdad with very little fighting. CNN admitted that they knew all about Sadaam's oppression and torture of his enemies, but did not do their duty and report the facts because they were scared of being thrown out of Iraq. The MSM has continued their “selective” reporting with their sympathetic coverage of all Muslim terrorists with stories slanted against the US and Israel. They use a double standard for their coverage, calling terrorists “militants” and suppressing negative stories like the beheading of hostages mad emphasizing stories of US wrong doing like the prisoner “torture” scandal and now the Sites video. This does not include their horrible coverage of thee 2004 election, hammering Bush on his TANG service, while giving Kerry the pass on his obvious lies about his service in Viet Nam and his pitiful senate record.
The MSM claims they do not want to offend Muslims, a small part of the US population, while offending the hell out of the 51 percent of Americans who no longer believe the MSM. It is time for the senate to investigate what can only be described as “un-American” activities of the media. America stands for truth and justice. The MSM does not know the meaning of the truth and unbiased reporting. When you think the media has gotten about as low as it can go, they continue to surprise us with even lower and more dishonest reporting like the infamous CBS memogate and the fawning eulogies to Arafat. I rank reporters as bad as ambulance chasers and car salesman. This biased reporting is not good for this country, or for the world.

Powell didn't quit. He was fired.

Apparently, he asked for one more year to knock Israeli heads and was turned down.

Heh.

It is absolutely vital that we have journalists reporting from the "theater". Look at it this way. We live in a democracy. Our elected leader make decisions that are supposed to be representative of the will of the populace, in this case the decision to go to war.
If our leaders are our representatives when it comes to making decisions (and putting the decision into action) then the journalists' job is to communicate the consequences of the decisions our leaders have made.
Let's face it, some decisions are extremely difficult because we know the consequences are going to be very unpleasant. But life is like that. It is important to be reminded of the reality of war so we can know, intimately, the consequences of our decisions. War is messy and imprecise. We need to be reminded of this.
I WANT our society to struggle with the decision to go to war. It's a good thing. Sure, our detractors will seize stories such as this as ammunition against us. Let them. I can acknowledge that the fact that we had to put our best in harm's way tears me apart. But it doesn't change my support for the decision.

#151 rabidfox

you mean that those Chiliean sercurity types KNEW this was a presidential security man and they STILL tried to keep him out?

They knew very well. Think about it, a guy 5 feet behind the President? No one gets that close except us.

lazytart,

Yes, Blanco. A dem. Front page of the Anglos. Other sororities have movie stars, we have astronauts, artists, and governors. I'll take it!

Sometime I really hope we can clarify the terminology we're all arguing about. Assigning the term "racist" to any and all speech you don't like is a modern leftist technique. 90% of the time, the term "racist" doesn't apply to the situation. It's just become an all-purpose insult. But what it more accurate?

Racism = Condemning all members of a racial group, without any regard to their individual qualities.

Chauvinism = Believing in the supremacy of one's own nation or heritage, and the inferiority of all others.

Bigotry = Having uncharitable thoughts about members of any group that are different from one's own.

Prejudice = Unfairly ascribing negative qualities to any person or group, based on the perceived behavior of that group in the past.

Am I leaving anything out? Among these options, I would say that the term that most closely matches the so-called offensive comments on LGF is "bigotry," not racism. But, starting in the '50s, "bigot" has come to mean "racist" in the popular mind, just as (since the '70s) "chauvinist" has come to refer to sexist men.

There's no common term to refer to bigotry toward members of a certain religion (as opposed to race). Though I'm sure there's some ecumenical terminology for it.

Anyway, I feel we ought to be arguing over whether some LGFers leave comments that are "bigoted," or perhaps "chauvinistic," rather than "racist." I'm just getting tired of seeing the word "racism" lose all meaning and it is thrown around in every inapplicable situation.

#153 maumau
Are you 12?

When I left the military, I would talk like

Mom, Hell Yah I would fucking like to visit for Tday as long as that faggot brother of mine fucking shows up to fucking his cowboy faggots play.

Blogs didn't change me... 3 ex girlfriends did. But military talk brings back the old habits. I was a church going non swearer when I went in. I learned to drink, smoke, swear. and talk like a sailor. I'm not going to worry much if someone talks a hot mile.

But these days if all i read in a blog is invective. I will get really really tired... Yawn... I am getting old. I find I have to turn the channels off for awhile and listen to some clasical music or ABBA.

ohhh time to watch John Gibson. F*ck Yah

when he was subdued he was your responsibility; when he was killed in front of my eyes and my camera — the story of his death became my responsibility.

Dear Mr. Sites:

The "man" you refer to, if we can call him that, was only subdued a scant millisecond after the round penetrated his skull and turned his brain into cottage cheese, and not a moment before.

reaganite

Surely you can argue your point better than that. When you call someone an idiot because they disagree with you, you come across like Al Franken...and you automatically lose the argument.

You want everyone to spell correctly and not use icky old terms like "[bigoted word]." I don't care...and you call me the idiot.

#123 R Peyton

Death to islam and it's followers.

Is that too harsh for you? Is the intent to kill all the enemy against your moral belief?

Charles, your comments are exactly right: "if the objective of any war is to win", then reporters like Sites have no business being embedded with our troops. Send along some Armed Forces reporters to gather material for the history books and for training troops, but for pete's sake do not send along Old Left Media traitor embeds. I'm sure our military will learn from this mistake.

While we're discussing hate speech, is everyone tuning into "Hating America" on FNC right now?

Let's consider the standards that are currently being set.

#162 Zombie

You make a good point. I carelessly entered into a long debate because I too quickly used the word racist. Once I found myself arguing the point I could find no safe extraction place. I still believe the individual was pointing to a particular race but, I'm sure he wasn't racist.

#166 maumau
You have earned a GAZE but I will respond one more time.

You can only argue a point when your opponent has one. You are pointless and I imagine not long for LGF. I've been here a long time. I don't imagine you will be.

Blackhorse,
lol!

reganite

Wooo hooo. Age smack. What's left? Let me guess, you feel sorry for me? Sympathy smack!!!

#163, reaganite

Not twelve. Two, I think.

(At least judging from its football.)

Of course he is very proud of himself. He is part of the donkey party which is full of turds who would kiss ass with the splodydopes.

We, the people of the United States of America, are, of course, responsible for all the ills of the world. Hey, that's why all the world is trying to get here, by hook or by crook. They are all dying to share the blamed. (/s)

Screw this asswipe and...the ass he rode in on!

I can’t really blame Sites for releasing the video to the pool. Once it was on tape and others knew about it, what else could he do? But the bigger, entirely pragmatic issue is: if winning is important, why was he even there in the first place?

As many of you know already my youngest son is in the US Army. I tell this not for any reason except to maybe make some point about the insight I have into the US military world. I know many people here at home in america support our troops with their whole hearts and I and my son appreciate the vigilance they have made keeping the record of events. In the past many of us did not know how to voice our opinions and make them heard. I believe with my whole heart that our voices have been heard. We must continue to raise our voices to expose lies or exaggerations in the media and the press. We owe our troops this much. As they fight and some die it is a small sacrifice for us to take some time and write or voice our opinions. We must be heard. The troops for many reasons are not allowed to speak out. So it is you and I who must speak for them. Kevin Sites is just one of many who have an agenda to discredit our military. Remember to be vigilant at watching, hearing, and responding to anyone who uses their position to dishonor our soldiers. Charles has asked the most important question. Why was Kevin Sites there?

Link

[Link: www.coastalwebdesign.com...]

If posted prior to this, excuse...BUT

Sunday, November 21, 2004
The Truth Shall Make You Miserable

Belmont

referencing this;
Blaming the messenger
North County Times

Read it all, if you choose.

159 Wood-butcher
It isn't so much "if" we should have embeds and that they report what they see. But it should not be one sided, they should show the negative side of the enemy as well. We are not seeing enough of that.

reganite

Oooops, I forgot longevity smack. Way to go!!!

#174 Dar ul Harb

Not twelve. Two, I think.

The terrible two's!

Really, isn't it a school night?

anyone else watching hating america on fox

Knowing who the enemy is (MSM) - is very important. The media defines the story for a lazy public and are knowingly aids the enemy. The MSM sets the perception and as we know perception is reality. We have in our power to set the perception through propoganda of our own. The military should provide its own reports that - identify our enemy, dehumanize him and recognize the true heroism of our troops. I will keep repeating don't invite snakes into our own homes - then act surprised when they act like snakes.

#182 JP

The media defines the story for a lazy public and are knowingly aids the enemy

100% correct.

The military should provide its own reports that - identify our enemy, dehumanize him and recognize the true heroism of our troops.

We need the likes of Ernie Pile. No way will Americans trust the military thanks to the MSM from Viet Nam.

maumau must be feeling the rush of the "sudden free speach" forum.
Like a kid with a brand new license driving his Dads Olds 442
He'd disrespect his Dad's car ...just like he's disrespecting this site.

#162 zombie

Thank you for the excellent dissertation... seriously. The wack-o lefties (is that bigoted, chauvenistic or prejudiced?) have elevated the term "racist" to the 1500's equivalent of "witch". The term is so over-used that it has really lost its sting.

#178 Old Fart 43

That's what I've been trying to voice. I have no problem with reporters being in the field if the SecDef approves. But, when the embed becomes the story or, when they only show us the side they want us to see then it becomes a liability. We aren't the only ones killing people and breaking things.

Also, I don't have a problem with an investigation. It is better for the Marine to be exhonerated than to simply be returned to his unit with this over his head. And he will be exhonerated.

Perhaps we need some little "shades" on the LGF next to the new posters' names, like they have on eBay...

("Shady character" don't trust him yet!)

#134 Reaganite

You keep harping this point. So I'll speak from my combat experiences. I do not want to slam a fellow Vet but please back down. We are Americans, not Soviets.

You have your experience as a combat veteran and I have mine.

As those who continue to harp their point of defense of this scum reporter and the defense of the enemy, I will continue to harp my point.

If you feel the posters I am debating need your help by all means indulge yourself.

You will help their cause when they see one combat veteran fighting another combat veteran. Hope you're proud.

You can only argue a point when your opponent has one. You are pointless and I imagine not long for LGF. I've been here a long time. I don't imagine you will be.

Speaking of pointless, anyone catch Meet the Press today, with the ex CIA chap who wrote a book called Imperial Hubris?

He was all over the place. Inconsistant/illogical. His main point was balme Israel for our troubles with the arab world. WEhen russert asked him if dumping Israel would change anything, he said no.

He also kept saying we have to understand our enemies motivations to try and change what we're doing so as not to piss em off, but then went on to say that changing our behaviour wouldn't do much after all.

GIven the central thesis reason his book has made a big splash - the dumping Israel part - I was pissed that Russert game him the airtime, but he is a bit of a leftish dweeb.

He was on HArdball the night before, but you expect it from that asswipe . . .

#162 zombie

Nice definitions. I would vote that if lgf is more guilty of one of those, it would be prejudice, as many often pre judge a current situation based on patterns of the past. Now, the arguement can be made that that can be a good thing. It is helpful to notice patterns so one doesn't have to re-invent the wheel everytime. Discrimination can be very good as well. I discriminate when choosing to take cough medicine for my cough rather than aspirin.

As long as one remains aware that the current situation could be one of the few that don't fit the pattern, by all means draw on past knowledge. However, I can recall too many times when it really WAS the Buddhists responsible for some event we first laid at the feet of Islam. (Which is not a race, btw)

maumau

Just wondering you picked your nic from this...Mau Mau

or this...Mau Mau

Keep the media out of battle. Arrest them. Detain them. Do whatever you can to keep them out of the way and safe from harm (and safe from harming U.S. forces). Set up a press pool and feed them what they need to know. Just no more press on Ops.

rebtex

Unusual approach you have. I state a belief in free "speech" and you call that "disrespecting" this site. Interesting point of view.

You'll have to understand what is going on BEFORE you start stirring the $hit

#188 Blackhorse

Hope you're proud.

So now my word is worthless? Wow. Look, it's simple. We have defended America. You are advocating defending a state that is not America.

How many years did you serve? How many campaigns? How many times did you get shot at? What fucking point does it make?

So now I'm Kerry?

I remember my oath, do you?

To reaganite or anyone else who would know: what sorts of things do soldiers enjoy receiving in care packages? I have a friend who is enlisting soon, so I'd like to know--I don't want to send him things he won't want/need. Thanks!

#181 Jimmy the Claw

Yep... I got it on right now.

maumau

C'mon man, give it a rest! Whatever your point was, you made it. Move on.

Reaganite -

The public is looking for a voice of reason within the media. If the MSM can not provide it - than the military must. The military must provide the story and the facts. The MSM will spin it as they will. But, the ability to keep the story in context will be maintained.

Embeds are a political decision - a poor political decision.

Charles-

It seems to me that this was an unusual embed, an unusual reporting decision. Otherwise, I think there would be more back-stabbing videos aired.

I also think that the whole tape didn't have to be distributed to the pool. At a minimum, the marine's name should have been edited out.

That's what this Sites creton did, Charles. He stabbed the unit in the back, knows that he did, and then tries to explain himself away. But I think he realizes that he is a creton. He should never be allowed to embed again and if he would attend DoD or WH press conferences, he should never be addressed. Let him go do the Peter Arnett thing. Force him out of US journalism.

So, is everyone going to contact NBC and tell them he should work for al-Jazeera, which is more in tune with his thinking, and that if NBC retains him, we'll call NBC's advertisers that we won't buy their products as long as they advertise on a station that still employs this creton?

#191 elcid

maumau as in Kikuyu tribesman. Why? Mostly because people make assumptions and get a little hostile simply because someone would use such a name. Also, because "reganite" was already taken.

#167 Blackhorse

Death to islam and it's followers.

Yep. Harsh and uncalled for.

I'm against the ideology of Islamism, not the religion of Islam.

Just as I'm against the ideology of Nazism, not the nationalism of Germans.

Capiche?

@75

And you know how what the photojournalist 'reported' as being factual. His reporting the 'wounded iraqi' ( and how did he know the terrorist was an iraqi?), was unarmed (and how did he know the terrorist was unarmed or wearing a suicide belt?). He is standing there videoing, the marine is doing point...so who is the person to make the instantaneous decision of whether this man who is pretending to be dead is innocent or intent on keeping the killing until his last breath? Sites is in a position to make a better life endangering decision than the marine?
That is the point being made. If Sites had been as honest in his write up as in his filming it would have made a great deal of difference. His reporting is dishonest. He had/has no way knowing in such a situation as to the status of the enemy.

Yossarian
It's the little things!
A "Thank You so Much" letter
chewing gum
a PENCIL!!!
flints for their lighters
That little bottle of anti-bacterial hand wash
You know things like that

#197 Darleen 11/21/2004 06:24PM PST
#181 Jimmy the Claw

Yep... I got it on right now.

yeah its making me think bigel is reasonable next up is the moonbat that said we blew up the twin towers so we could build a pipeline in afghanistan. poor mrs claw gotta listen to me ranting and on top of it beers almost gone.

Lens Cleaning wipes, rubber shower shoes, anti-bacterial soap, and all-purpose spices like Mrs. Dash.

#196 Yossarian
Toys, send a nerf gun! Perks, candy. A CD of music. Kool aid!

What ever you do, don't send baby wipes!

#198 the parson

Let me make sure I have this right. One of your buddies calls me an idiot and you want me to "give it a rest" and "move on."

heh...

#201,

...world's tiniest violin...

#75 Patrizio  11/21/2004 05:16PM PST

"I'm afraid you are wrong on this one, Charles. Would you rather not know what your countrymen are doing overseas?"

I know exactly what they are doing: killing terrorists.

The Sites video is being used as propaganda to encourage the enemy to kill Americans. The Sites video is being used to defeat America. The Sites video is objectively aiding the enemy. I value victory over defeat. To hell with Sites and his ilk. Let the armed forces send military reporters, and not liberal traitors, to record history.

#199 JP

Embeds are a political decision - a poor political decision.

We had them in WWII. The difference was they were on our side.

#208,

...world's tiniest violin, continued...

#208 maumau

You finally got something right!

I see you are simply spoiling for a fight and not interested in or capable of intelligent dialogue so

GAZE

#196 Yossarian

When they first get to Iraq or Afghanistan or wherever they're going, it's a little slow for the first week or two. Send some crossword puzzles or board games, magazines, or a couple of books. The weather may be getting colder, too. They may need long underwear, moisturizer, lip balm, etc. And snacks are always appropriate. But don't send pork. It's contraband. I did send a friend some Kedem snacks. I wonder what the Muslims will think when they see the wrapper fly away with "made in Israel" printed on it! LOL!!! At this time of year, it's also good to send a 2005 Playboy calendar!

I hear ya, but one of the reasons LGF is such a reprieve for many of us is because we come here to vent.

I know, sometimes we say un PC things; many, many times over the top sick commenters are run out of here completely in the course of an evening.

But I really really really don't feel like listening to a lecture.

I think most of the people posting here are adults and ought to be able to speak their peace...

Respectfully-

I understand, and thank you for the comment. I wouldn't be posting here if I didn't think it was important that we actually call out people who say they're on our side when they say things that aren't just un-PC, but are racist and simply counterproductive.

I don't use racist terms (surely you noticed that), but I don't care if anyone else does. That usually takes care of itself in a public forum.

I know your comment wasn't directed to me, but I can't help responding. Why don't you care if someone uses racist comments? Doesn't it matter to you? This is a hugely popular website, and the comments here are regularly cited by liberals or worse as typical of people who share our views on the war. They're not typical, and we ought to point that out.

And you're not bitter? Playing the race card and calling people racists sounds pretty bitter to me. Throwing that lightweight trash around is typical LLL crapola. What's your point; what's your agenda?

I get bitter when I read racist comments. "Playing the race card" would be a great argument, if it wasn't for comments like "[bigoted word]." that get posted here off and on. My agenda is to see this country win the war on terrorism. That's my agenda. I don't think using the term "[bigoted word]" helps that agenda, do you?

Answer the question before you question my agenda again.

Anyway, I feel we ought to be arguing over whether some LGFers leave comments that are "bigoted," or perhaps "chauvinistic," rather than "racist." I'm just getting tired of seeing the word "racism" lose all meaning and it is thrown around in every inapplicable situation.

So how do you classify "[bigoted word]" then? Because my reference to "psychopathic" above with respect to people calling for Sites to be killed wasn't supposed to be taken literally either. As far as I'm concerned, you use the term "[bigoted word]" and you're a racist. You want to use the term "bigot" fine.

Death to islam and it's followers.

Is that too harsh for you? Is the intent to kill all the enemy against your moral belief?

Yes. That's too harsh for me. Not all members of the Islamic faith are our enemy. I'm not about to defend Islam, or the Koran, because I've read it. There's some indefensible stuff in that book, and there are some sects of Islam that deserve to be snuffed out. But not to put to fine a point on it, fuck you. You're part of the problem.

Is that too harsh for you?

#210 Victor

Careful there. You're a little to politically incorrect for this crowd.

You're sounding like you actually want us to win this war we are in with the Islamic facists...

Me too...

maumau

The why, the card game would have meant you in fact were using the computer without your parents knowledge.

The Kenyan insurgency, could mean you believe in terrorist ideals.

Oh and maumau...it's r-e-a-g-a-n-i-t-e, NOT "reganite".

#73

Americans need to realize the air war is the first part of the campaign. But, the only way to hold ground is with the ground forces. And that means killing on both sides.

A good piece by Kurt Anderson in this week's New York Magazine, about the cultural chasm between red states and New York City's media elite:

Kurt Anderson

#217 Elcid
Thanks brother, but don't bother, it's a troll.

#211 reganite
Good point, it's obvious at times that the MSM wants us to fail because they hate the administration so much. People like Sikes just furnish the fuel for an already large firestorm. The troops in Iraq are pawns - how disgusting.

reaganite (#211)

We had them in WWII. The difference was they were on our side.

I remember reading the story of Robert Capa, who took over a hundred photos during the D-Day landings on Omaha Beach--only to have most of them ruined during processing by an over-eager darkroom technician. Thankfully, some of the photos survived.
photos of Robert Capa

#221 Old Fart 43

The troops in Iraq are pawns

Not under W they aren't. They are power.

Reaganite-

True - but, they were heavily censored.

#195 Reaganite

How many years did you serve? How many campaigns? How many times did you get shot at? What fucking point does it make?

Unlike you, I only served one tour of duty in Vietnam with the 11th ACR. I did not count the times I was shot at, (and yes I was shot at), but I'm sure by such an arrogant comment, you must be a bullet counter.

Upon my return from Vietnam, I went on to serve in the Army Reserves for 29 years. I served in the Federal Government in a DAC (Department of Civilian) capacity for 22 years.

My brother who went before me was badly wounded in Vietnam. My Father fought in WW!!. The rest of my six member family all served in the Military.

Now Reaganite, I'm sure that doesn't begin to match your service and record.

I resent other Veterans who declare how much worse they had it than you.

Reaganite, I realize you have quite a following here at LGF. (I'm not one of them) Apparently it has made you self righteous.

Sites deserves a blanket party.

It's hard to believe we have devolved so far since WWII.

#215 Peyton

I don't care if people use racist terms just as I don't care if people call me idiot for disagreeing with them. That appears to be the standard come-back.

#167 Blackhorse

Death to islam and it's followers.

Yep. Harsh and uncalled for.

I'm against the ideology of Islamism, not the religion of Islam.

Just as I'm against the ideology of Nazism, not the nationalism of Germans.

Capiche?

Couldn't have said it better. I know there's a ton of hyperbole going on, but if we're going to be serious about this war, and win it, we need to do it right. That doesn't mean being pansies, or not killing the enemy when we can kill him/her/it. That doesn't mean that the marine who put a round in that terrorist was wrong. It does mean that we need to remember we're better than them.

They hate us because we are a free society that doesn't shackle our women, or ban music, art, and alcohol. They hate us because we live in the 21st Century, while they're stuck in the 13th. They hate us because they see an enemy and they fear us. They hate us because we don't fear them. Because we don't, do we? We could annihilate them if we chose and we don't because... wait for it... we're better than them. Not because we're inherently better than them, but because by Grace or luck we live in a democracy, and the best, most free democracy in the world.

We ought to behave like it.

#222 Yossarian

I remember reading the story of Robert Capa

I've seen them before, thanks for the link! We had many during WWII and during the Korean war. We lost Viet Nam because of the "new" media.

Hey, as long as they let Al Jazeera broadcast unfettered what difference does a traitor cameraman make? I get all worked up about this stuff, but really why was this moron there in the first place?

reaganite...no prob dude, you've covered my back, my turn to make sure you are...

Now to the real stuff, what did ya' shoot, today?...Ummm no..don't want to hear 'the ranger', 'the starter', 'a duck'...LOL.

#224 JP

True - but, they were heavily censored.

They were, but at the same time, they volunteered their work.

Blackhorse

I have no beef with you and I don't want to but, really it seems to me you kind of over reacted to Reaganite's post. Please re-read his post to you and see if he wasn't being a lot more respectful to you than you have been to him.

I think that freedom of speech and the media is only within our borders regardless of any other international situation. The thing is that the press aren't trained soldiers and therefore cannot assess ANY wartime situation AT ALL. We need to keep them out and let our troups do what is needed to gain a quick and decisive victory. The press is continually trying to extend OUR constitutional rights to OTHER countries during armed conflict so they can try and make us look bad.

#225 DAC should read Department of the Army Civilian.

#217 elcid

Spelling smack on behalf of your buddy?

heheheh

#223 reaganite
Sorry for the name mis-spell and your right but not because the MSM doen't try.

#215, R. Peyton

Is "[bigoted word]" closer to "kraut" or "jap"?

I'd say since it's a cultural stereotype, it's probably closer to "kraut". Now, the word I understand is actually used in theater is "haji," which I would think to be generally offensive to Mohammedeans.

Personally, I call 'em "jihadis".

Reaganite -

Like WWII censorship can be a good thing. We could pick our reporters, escort them and censor the final product. The current media poison can be mitigated in this manner. Better friendly propoganda than unfriendly.

parson, elcid, reganite

What's with you guys? Some sort of a "cover my rear" buddy system? Felching? Say no more, say no more.

#225 Blackhorse

but I'm sure by such an arrogant comment, you must be a bullet counter.

You sir, are the one who keeps asking if they served. Not me. I made the point because you keep asking the question.

Reaganite, I realize you have quite a following here at LGF. (I'm not one of them) Apparently it has made you self righteous.

You are way off base, again. You keep demanding to know if people served, not me. You have become the "bullet counter" you accuse me of being.

Is there a reason you'd rather fight with me?

I keep saying to myself: I'm going to quit refreshing this thread, and go do something else. And maybe I will, after this.

I don't care if people use racist terms just as I don't care if people call me idiot for disagreeing with them. That appears to be the standard come-back.

But do you at least agree with me that racist comments are counterproductive to our goal? I'm betting you do, and given that, I don't understand why you don't criticize people who make them. I don't care if people call me an idiot either. I don't care what people say about me on an internet message board. With a few limitations, I don't care what you say to my face either. But that's not the point.

Call me a moron/fag/asshole/pinko, etc. I'll ignore you. Tell me that we ought to glass Mecca, because those "[bigoted word]s" deserve it, I'll call you out. Do you not see the distinction?

I also think we should all follow this guy's (and others') career to make sure he doesn't advance as a result of this. Kind of like the Swifties did with kerry.

Elcid, Reaganite

Don't forget the secret meeting tomorrow night. We'll be discussing how to CYA.

#232 Elcid

Now to the real stuff, what did ya' shoot, today?...Ummm no..don't want to hear 'the ranger', 'the starter', 'a duck'...LOL.

LOL, I haven't shot this bad a round today in a long time and I had a great time! An old good friend is in town. We'll golf 3 or 4 more times before he goes home!

#234 theparson
Thanks.

#242 reganite

Your "Yeah, but what are you?" arguments are getting tedious. Your argument asenal doesn't hack it. Are you going to call this veteran an "idiot" for calling you out?

#241 maumau

Sheesh... you eat with that mouth?

237

When someone has run their course for useful thinking of any kind, in my mind, I use their post number to reply.,..and only one time do I reply, when their "number is up"...so this is it.

I believe you researched the Kenyan insurgents..as I gave you a clue and a choice to sound like an adult... your answer made you sound...well, intelligent but, subsequent posts, gee...enjoy the card game...and give your parents back their computer, before you spill your milk and/or cookies in the damn thing.

Haven't read the thread. Just finished reading Sites response. I think he's full of shit. He's looking for glory in all the wrong places. IMHO.

#238 Old Fart 43
No worries!

#240 JP

Better friendly propoganda than unfriendly.

Honestly, I prefer the truth. But I do know sometimes it has to be delayed.

#229 R Peyton

I don't entirely disagree with your post.

I'm against the ideology of Islamism, not the religion of Islam.

I make it a point to study the koran as often as I can. Assuming you do, how can you possibly separate the ideology of Islamism from the religion of islam?

BTW You fight a war to win, NOT to lose.

#248,

Wile E. Coyote runs off the cliff.

He hasn't looked down yet.

I am a bit curious as to how this video will actually affect the ennemy (as opposed to the public etc.)

I think the insurgents beleive the US will always act the sucker, the good guys, the white hats. They exploit that by using perfidy in combat (you know, white flag then shoot the GI, another thing that cancels out the Geneva convention protection by the way. Like using Mosques as ammo dumps).

I think that if they see ruthlesness, real hard-ass pityless Gyrines taking out the trash, it will make the softer ones think twice about joining the Jihad (like those two Frechmen teenagers). It's no fun and games anymore.

I get the impression that no matter what good the US does will be ignored anyway by the "arab street". Hell, our medias are on the same wavelenght as Al-Jazeera. So it doesn't matter if you build a thousand bridges in Irak. You screw up once and that's what will be on TV. So screw that.

If they don't respect restraint and dialogue, perhaps being shown that clip will make them respect strenght.

All this "racist comment" shit is just drivel. We call them terrible and stereotypical names because that makes it easier for the American people to justify killing them... That is the ONLY reason~! Nobody believes these things but it does help most people deal with all the killing. WE will patch things up once we're done just like we did the Japan, Italy, and Germany. And, for that matter, with the South (something which the dems seem to be trying to keep alive for their own knee jerk constituants"

Al Guardian sez: To be fair, we need imbeds on both sides.

I'm off my feed.

Is "[bigoted word]" closer to "kraut" or "jap"?

I'd say since it's a cultural stereotype, it's probably closer to "kraut". Now, the word I understand is actually used in theater is "haji," which I would think to be generally offensive to Mohammedeans.

Personally, I call 'em "jihadis".

Good question, actually, and you've put it in an excellent historical context. Because to be consistent I suppose I'd have to criticize just about everyone who served in WWII, right?

Except that I'm not about to try and impose our current moral standards, and our current standards for "cultural sensitivity" on the 1940's. Or the 1960's for that matter. It's very easy for us to look back and criticize people in the past for not being what we'd like to be ourselves today. The founding fathers owned slaves, for example. To me, it doesn't make sense to denigrate them for that today.

And I think "Jihadis" is a perfect term. It sums up what these scum are after; at least the principled scum. I imagine there are some fighting our troops who don't believe they're going to meet Allah and 72 doe-eyed virgins when they take a round from a Marine, but rather are fighting for money. I doubt there are many of the type Michael Moore describes as "Minutemen" fighting for their country. I wonder which type of scum is worse, the religous fanatic, or the mercenary?

#253 Blackhorse

The line is mine. And I can easily separate the ideology of ISLAMISM from Islam

Just as I can separate the "Christian Identity Movement" from Christianity regardless of how often the CIM may be lifting lines directly from the Bible.

245 theparson

Damn (can I say damn, to a parson?) forgot about the CYA meeting...what time again?...:).

Not your fault...gray matter has been leaking from my ear canals for YEARS.

186- exactly.

167- yep, that's 'too harsh'. Do you know any Moslems? I know one fairly well. Nice guy. Good professional. Grew up in Jersey. No accent (not even a Joisy one). Goes to mosque on Friday, but I can't hold much else against him. I really don't feel like killing him, nothwithstanding your views.
The other problem with death to all Moslems is that there's a lot of them- about a billion. Our technology is not yet sophisticated enough to kill them all without poisoning ourselves too, unfortunately.

I like this:

Readers regularly ask me when I will throw in the towel on Iraq. I will be guided by the U.S. Army and Marine grunts on the ground. They see Iraq close up. Most of those you talk to are so uncynical - so convinced that we are doing good and doing right, even though they too are unsure it will work. When a majority of those grunts tell us that they are no longer willing to risk their lives to go out and fix the sewers in Sadr City or teach democracy at a local school, then you can stick a fork in this one. But so far, we ain't there yet. The troops are still pretty positive.

So let's thank God for what's in our drinking water, hope that maybe some of it washes over Iraq, and pay attention to the grunts. They'll tell us if it's time to go or stay.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Maumau,

Enjoy your night here, troll... you won't last a whole 24 hours.

I'm thinking froll, you're THAT pathetic.

In any case,

freaking GAZE.

What a pretentious,self-important prick. The Marines should have fragged his ass.

#243 R Peyton

Of course, I see the distinction. But I also see that the only way to win his war is to kill them before they kill us, and if de-humanizing them is one result, so be it. It surely cannot make it any worse. If we have to become like them in order to survive, that's okay too. We cannot allow the destruction of the U.S in order to fight by the rules.

When I remember those innocent people jumping out of the top floors of the Trade Towers on 11 Sep 01, I literally have to fight back the tears. It's then that it is hard for me to remember that the people flying those planes were human too.

#256, texanista

Marse Robert never referred to the damnyankees by any other name than "those people," at least publicly.

The age of chivalry of that caliber is long gone.

#260 Elcid

Most of my parishoners say worse to me :)

I'll call you later with the time. Don't want maumau to find out.

#249 Darleen

Actually, I don't use my mouth at all when I type.

neener, neener

Gee, they kill 3000 civvies, destroy the WTC, bomb embassies, highjack airliners...

But let's not call them any bad, racist names, that's just not cricket!

#268 maumau

I don't even want to think about where your hands have been.

Sweetcheeks, you're way out of your element and pity ain't a pretty thing.

I don't entirely disagree with your post.

I'm against the ideology of Islamism, not the religion of Islam.

I make it a point to study the koran as often as I can. Assuming you do, how can you possibly separate the ideology of Islamism from the religion of islam?

BTW You fight a war to win, NOT to lose.

I can't claim that I study the Koran. I hadn't read more than a few suras before 9/11. When I did read it, it was pretty disturbing. There's some pretty sick shit in that book, and it's pretty specific. People who try to analogize some of the stuff in the Old Testament are simply off base. Sure, there's some pretty violent stuff in the OT, but it's not the kind of specific instruction to worshippers that tells you how to treat the captured people of a town: i.e. whether it's okay to rape the women after killing the men.

But just as we (assuming you're Christian, or at least from a Christian background) have gotten past some of the violent stuff in the OT, there are Islamic people who do not believe in the more radical parts of the Koran. Whether that makes them true Muslims or not, I don't know, and I don't care. I just know that the better option for winning this war is to convince the majority of Muslims that fucking with us is a bad idea, and moreover that freedom is a good thing. Turkey may not be the ideal example, but it's at least a start. It's what we're trying to do in Iraq as well. Maybe I'm just naive, but I think we can succeed.

The only friend I have from Iraq is Christian. He's not been back to Iraq since he was 9. He was pessimistic about the war, and about the chances for a democracy in Iraq, because he figured the Shiites would just take power and start a new Iran. I have a hard time contradicting someone whose parents lived in the country, but I hope to hell he's wrong. I do know that his family had many friends who were Islamic, and were extremely tolerant.

We are not going to eradicate Islam. If you don't agree with that statement, then we have no further basis for discussion. The best we can hope is that we encourage the more moderate elements of Islam to join us in the modern age, and forego the idea that Islam is destined to rule the world. Again, I think that's possible.

#159 wood-butcher

We live in a democracy. Our elected leader make decisions that are supposed to be representative of the will of the populace, in this case the decision to go to war.

No, no, no. We live in a representative republic, not a democracy. We elect people and then expect them to run the county. They have information we do not.
Point in case. The American public was dead set against getting into WWII, but FDR knew that we were going to have to join at some point, so he made plans.

Did kindergarten just get out?

Yes, he used the term "those"... He still drew a distinction so that everyone knew "they" were not of the same mind as "we"... symantically, it's an identical reference.

#267 parson

Sure you're not a priest?

Dak

I have no problem using the coarsest, most graphic expletives I can find or invent to describe an Islamist.

I won't label the Sikhs that live around the corner from me "[bigoted word]" and let them be lumped in with jihadist scum...

or the Iranian-American attorney I work with ...

or the Muslim-American woman who I've known since my PTA days ...

Or is the concept that while the terrorists we are fighting are all muslim but we are not fighting all muslims a little much to wrap your brain around?

#273 reaganite
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

246 reaganite