Al-Arabiya is even more foul than JihadTV.

And, yeah ... that takes some doing.

Can somebody queue up the standard list of question re "historic 'palestine'"? Date of founding, language, culture, political leaders, etc?

I am shocked, shocked I tell you.

So when do we get stop referring to terrorists as "radicals" and small portion of the islam population admit that the vast majority of these folks want to see us dead?

Not holding my breath...

Knock me over with a feather.

OT
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#5 T.Jefferson

That's not at all off-topic; we ARE talking about Arab public opinion, aren't we?

I'm Zogby, and I approve of this poll.

The poll, as described in the article, is even more biased and valueless than the typical poll in the United States. It's what is called a "push poll," where the interviewer interjects certain information in order to elicit a certain response. And example from the last election would be, "Who will you vote for President: Decorated War Hero John Kerry, or Draft-Dodger George Bush?" (They're rarely that biased these days, but that's the principle.) This Arab poll basically went like this: "Who do you want to replace Arafat? Oh -- in case you're wondering -- Hamas wants to kill all the Jews and destroy Israel. Just thought you should know. So, who do you prefer: Hamas, PLO, or someone else?" So naturally most everyone responds "Hamas."

All this reveals is that most Arabs are anti-Semites who want to commit genocide against Jewry. The "support" for Hamas is actually almost an irrelevant side issue -- vaulted into prominence by the way the poll is worded. 95% chance the poll was funded with Hamas money.

Blix Plays Down Chemical Lab Find

If there were to be found something (sic) I would be surprised.

Yeah, wouldn't it be un-fucking-believable if the folks who had NBC suits, atropine injectors and bio-chem weapon test kits also turned out to have some of the stuff it applied to?

We are dealing not with the miedeval equivalent of a community but its Bronze Age. Giving these people "freedom" to govern themselves will serve to demonstrate the limits of democracy.

Reminder: a decade or more ago in Algeria, the Islamofascists were on the verge of using elections to assume national power. The Algerian armed forces then staged a military takeover of government, and has fought their Islamoids in a vicious civil war that has taken the lives of tens of thousands of lives.

But we haven't learned anything despite that blood toll. Everyone and their mother in the US and Europe are now chanting that the death of the Fish opens up the possibility of peace, refusing to acknowledge the effects of decades of social and political propaganda among the Paleos.

The human species is a willfully blind, delusional animal, even when it has had the benefits of hundreds of years of freedom.

@9 Rufus Lee King

Mr Blix, a former Swedish diplomat, was charged with searching for weapons of mass destruction in the 15 weeks leading up to the US-led invasion of Iraq last year.

Swedish diplomat; is that the one that tells the moooslums not to make machine gun noises at the ambulances?

We should welcome the open acknowledgment by so many Muslims of their support for the destruction of Israel. When their appointed hour comes, their protestations of innocence won't bear scrutiny. They'll beg for the infidel West to spare them, but to no avail.

Who said it was just the Arabs?

Earlier today, the BBC reported that Javier Solana secretly met with Hamas. (Furl cache taken at Nov 25, 2004 at 12:36:50 GMT)

BUT...

Now for the interesting part, the url to that story now says the EXACT opposite, with no mention of a retraction by the BBC. So the story went from " EU chief held secret Hamas talks" to "EU denies secret talks with Hamas" and the entire text changed.

Not quite sure what to make of it, but it certainly seems like horribly shoddy journalism of the BBC at the least and possibly abhorrent actions on the part of the EU if the first story is true.

Damn, preview killed the Furl cache link:

EU chief held secret Hamas talks

SecHumanist, surely you do not mean to imply that the BBC is capable of horribly shoddy journalism? Personally I'm still waiting to see if the Americans' advance columns will take the Baghdad airport ... has the BBC updated that situation lately?

Funny, I recall fuming and gasping at the standard slug inserted in Reuters/AP "stories" on the MidEast wherein they would always imply that Hamas sought a two-state peaceful solution. I even dashed off some corrective emails to these "news" services on this point, citing the Hamas charter and many fresh corroborating tidbits. Not long ago, I saw a wire story that actually correctly noted that Hamas and IJ do NOT officially seek a two-state solution. Can't recall when exactly, but I was flabbergasted, in a good way (for once).

Say it isn't so!!!

AFDB

A man surprised his girlfriend with the gift that keeps on giving -
he lined all the walls in her apartment with foil while she was away... Peace of Mind - Priceless, Paranoid Schitzofrenic boyfriend - Yikes -

Yeah, "code". Puh-leeze. Try this: "What they really mean is what we've always believed they've meant. See? We're right and here's proof. Why is it proof? Because it's code. See?" But nevermind my snarkiness. Let's assume you're spot-on correct. So the Arab world is salivating for genocide. What should we do? Kill 'em all? Fund education programs? Occupy the Arab world with U.S. forces? Good luck.

Verlaine (15)

:) I know, I know, but this is low even for them. It's pretty close to the Kos-style removing of a story. I should clarify.. the new story does mention the fact that Solana clarified comments previously made, but they did so by destroying the original article rather than issuing a correction to it.

In fact, I was originally going to post the link directly to the story but I happened to notice that title changed.

This is a seriously messed up practice and I think they should be called on it so they don't continue the practice.

If it's true blix was charged with searching for the weopons, He should be charged with derelection of duty.

I have mentioned this factoid before, and it doesn't change anything today- but the knowledge of it can come in handy in dealing with this issue in hte future.

The reason Hamas is so well-liked is not just becuase they want to kill all the jews. All the stinkin' Palestinian groups want to do that. The thing is that not only do they want to kill the Jews, but they also do a lot of humanitarian and charity work as well. With Arafat and the PLO stealing all the money from them, Hamas looks like the ULTIMATE ANSWER!

Who better than the group that not only kills all the people that keep you in poverty, and cause ALL your problems, but also gives you free stuff! The group that feeds you and clothes you as well. When it comes to HAMAS, we are in deep doo doo to get this cancer stopped!

I don't like the only alternative I see. I don't like it!

Re my #12:

In war, there is room only for steely intent. Should the possibility of peace appear, then (and only then) should mercy be considered.

can't say i'm surprised :)

OT: French-Arab Slum Youths Joined Insurgency
[Link: www.kansascity.com...]

The two teenage friends hardly seemed like Islamic radicals. They smoked marijuana, drank beer, listened to rap and wore jeans.

Yet the pair of French Muslims died insurgents in Iraq - one a suicide car bomber, say relatives who traced the young men's path from the slums of Paris through a religious school in Syria to the fight against the U.S.-led coalition next door.

WAKE UP EUROPE

#17 Bubble Girl

he lined all the walls in her apartment with foil while she was away... Peace of Mind - Priceless, Paranoid Schitzofrenic boyfriend - Yikes -

What ever happened to the cool triangle hat? She must have been getting some SERIOUS signals...lol

#22: The possibility for peace is always present.

What should we do? Kill 'em all? Fund education programs? Occupy the Arab world with U.S. forces?

So let's hear your suggestions, Kelly.

Thanks for the hat tip :-)

The only possibility for peace is when enough of the respondents and Hamas rest in peace.

#26: Sorry. I'm all out of ideas; and I'm not alone. What are yours? God knows, if there's a good idea out there - the world would love to hear it. However, a wild-eyed "attack" mentality is a recipe for...well, more attacking.

#25 Kelly Cooper

The possibility for peace is always present.

Not really.

When a people are so determined to kill Jews that they human sacrifice their own children and celebrate these deaths as if their children's suicides are the best things that ever happened to them (even if the parents aren't paid $25,000 for the corpse) -- then peace isn't possible.

When/IF the Balestinians ever start wanting their own children to live, it will be a giant step forward. It won't mean peace is possible but it will mean that the Balestinians have become a whole lot less mentally ill (and should bear watching for other signs of becoming real human beings.)

We're light years from the day when this will happen, though (ie, the day when the Balestinians want their children to live.)

So we can't begin to think that peace is even the remotest possibility with these people unless they are conquered in some way (either very violently/militarily conquered or just held back permanently from being able to get to Jews.)

#28: Nice. Kill 'em. You're real furnace of intellectual activity.

Can the IDF go in and Assasinate the Hammas leaders before the election? Will the assasinations actually change anything.
Probably not. These are backward Dhimmi people who dont know any better than violent acts towards others.

(praise Allah) UGH...

If crime fighters fight crime, and fire fighters fight fire, what do freedom fighters fight?

Kelly, GUESS WHAT???

We aren't at war with Germany or Japan anymore.

Guess how this happened??

We had a war against them and we won it.

Neither Nazi Germany nor Japan would ever have made peace with us (even if we'd spent 56 years trying to get a deal going with them.) A whole lot more people would have died in the ensuing years.

When a peace agreement isn't possible in a war that has been going on for decades, especially, then a war is needed to make it stop.

What peace agreement would you have suggested to make peace with Nazi Germany? The Arab nations were Nazi Germany's allies.

We have the same chances for Israel to make peace with the Balestinians as the Allied Forces in WWII had with making peace with Nazi Germany while millions were dying.

Please face up to this.

Sorry. I'm all out of ideas

Thought so. Another whining liberal who offers criticism and little else.

#25 Kelly Cooper

There is no unilateral peace, if that's what you're implying.

#30: Sorry. But you're wrong. These people want their children to live. Indeed, they choose otherwise, not because they're completely cracked - but because they view their situation in hopelessly dire terms. A change in the political situation has been the desired goal of diplomats for years. We know this. Military subjugation has not dulled this desire. And it won't. Unless, of course, they're all killed. That works. It always has.

#31 O.K. Mr. Smarty Pants, try this on for size:

#28
The only possibility for peace is when enough of the Nazis rest in peace.

So tell me "Kelly" do you or do you not think Hamas is as evil as the Third Reich was?

Like the Nazi regime of the 1940's, Hamas can only be stopped with force.

Hey zulubaby, where are you're ideas? Jesus, what a prick! Oop. Inside voice. Inside voice.

The only reason that this war is still going on is that Israel beat the Arab armies repeatedly and much of the world is frightened about what would happen if the Jewish people won ultimately.

So Israel has been fighting with one (sometimes two) hands behind her back for decades (while all this terrorism has been going on against her citizens, ie, the ongoing mass murders of Jews by people from societies that were Hitler's allies.)

Terrorists think they're unbeatable now (and they attack pretty much everyone) because the world wouldn't allow Israel to stop it when it was mostly going on (Islamic terrorism) against Jews.

Now we're ALL stuck in a great big mess that won't end until the world tells Israel "GO GET 'EM -- SO ARE WE!!"

Please face up to this. Europe is just starting to wake up to the danger.

Please join them in this.

Kelly

No one is talking about invided a country of "kite flying peaceful kids." When a man comes through your window in the middle of the night, he is not there to deliver the mail! When he starts shooting your children, you tell me- do ya invite him to stay for tea??? When he is willing to kill his own child in order to kill you and yours, he MUST BE STOPPED! Especially since it is YOUR job to protect your children!

If they can start to see that the thirst for blood only brings their own, and the "infidel" is never going to be destroyed, maybe JUST MAYBE- we will get peace, but with their mindset as it is- if it is my child's blodd or theirs- I say theirs! We are NOT THE AGGRESSORS!

Military subjugation has not dulled this desire.

Oh fuck off you ignorant tool. Defending Hamas. What kind of scum are you?

#28 john5z

Amen...I concur

/Trying to ooze the intellect

#37 Kelly Cooper

These people want their children to live. Indeed, they choose otherwise, not because they're completely cracked - but because they view their situation in hopelessly dire terms.

Parents whose children have committed suicide in an attack against Israel are ECSTATIC about their children having died.

Where have you been??? Did we forget to tell you about this?

The Harvard University Gazette reports that Alberto Abadie, associate professor at Harvard’s John F. Kennedy School of Government, “examined data on terrorism and variables such as wealth, political freedom, geography, and ethnic fractionalization for nations that have been targets of terrorist attacks ... Before analyzing the data, Abadie believed it was a reasonable assumption that terrorism has its roots in poverty, especially since studies have linked civil war to economic factors. However, once the data was corrected for the influence of other factors studied, Abadie said he found no significant relationship between a nation’s wealth and the level of terrorism it experiences... (New York Sun, Nov.10, 1994)

Arab journalist Khalid Amayreh, himself from the Yesha region, has likewise written that it “is simply nonsense” to “claim that Islamic terrorism in Israel, as elsewhere, is the product of poverty, backwardness, and ignorance ... Islamic fundamentalism is not a product or by-product of poverty. Several studies have shown that a substantial majority of Islamists and their supporters come from the middle and upper socio-economic strata ... The fact that city-dwellers [in Judea-Samaria], who are generally more educated and better off economically, have consistently lent more support to Islamists refutes the widely held assumption that Islamist popularity thrives on economic misery.” (Jerusalem Post, Feb. 21, 1995)

Next comment will provides quotes of some ecstatic Mommies who are so pleased that their children are dead.

#39 Kelly Cooper

Piss off.

Outside voice, outside voice

These people want their children to live. Indeed, they choose otherwise, not because they're completely cracked - but because they view their situation in hopelessly dire terms. A change in the political situation has been the desired goal of diplomats for years.

Could you sound any more like a cliche? Study after study has demonstrated that neither "hopelessness" nor poverty breeds terrorism. Religiosity does.

#37 Kelly Cooper  

they choose otherwise, not because they're completely cracked - but because they view their situation in hopelessly dire terms.

Bull. The Palis chose to send bombers packed with explosives and shrapnel into civilian areas to kill women and children because the Palis are evil.

(If you won't admit that terrorists are evil, please go back to posting on indymedia or wherever you came from.)

As for your second point, we don't have to kill all of the enemy, just as we did not have to kill everyone in Japan or Germany. But right now Israel and the U.S. are playing patty-cake and not aggressively going after the terrorists. (A targeted assasination does not a military victory make.)

I imagine that Israel could solve the Pali issue in a week's combat by conducting Falluja-style invasions in all Pali-occupied "camps"

#37 KC

#30: Sorry. But you're wrong. These people want their children to live. Indeed, they choose otherwise, not because they're completely cracked - but because they view their situation in hopelessly dire terms.

So if you were in a hopeless situation you would send a child to die for YOUR cause?

Sounds COMPLETELY cracked to me.

Well zulubaby, I'm a handsome and well educated kind of scum. I'm the kind of scum that read books and follows current events and enjoys a nice dinner. What kind of scum are you?

The solution the beligerence of Hamas does not lie in a systemic elimination of all sympathetic Arabs. It lies in addressing the Arab-Israeli conflict in a way that meets the needs of both parties. Indeed, terrorism is fucking sick. But we need to thing beyond our revulsion and attack with intelligence.

You know, maybe nordoG just has a new account.

Anyway, to everyone else staying up late on LGF, Happy Thanksgiving!

These people want their children to live. Indeed, they choose otherwise, not because they're completely cracked - but because they view their situation in hopelessly dire terms. A change in the political situation has been the desired goal of diplomats for years

Kelly-

Knock it off! Painting these people as a bunch of poor hopeless vicitms is a bunch of crapt! They are not vicitms. Every chance they have been given to have their own state- they bawlk! EVERY TIME! The only thing they are vicitms of is their OWN HATE!

Kelly Cooper,

According to documented evidence gathered by Itamar Marcus and Barbara Crook of Palestinian Media Watch, the worship of Death for Allah (Shahada) continues to be a central theme transmitted to Arab homes via the TV station controlled by the Palestinian Authority.

In a recent broadcast, the mother of an Arab suicide terrorist talks about how she and other mothers in her position consider their sons’ Shahada death as a joyful event, similar to a wedding. The following is an excerpt from the PATV's Nov. 17th broadcast:

Moderator: "They [Israelis] accuse the Palestinian mother of hating her sons and encouraging them to die. This is what we hear from Israelis. Is this true?

Mother Um Al-Ajrami: "No, we do not encourage our sons to die. We encourage them to Shahada [martyrdom] for the homeland, for Allah… We [mothers of Shahids] don't say to the mothers of the [new] Shahids, 'We have come to comfort you’, but rather, 'We have come to bless you on the wedding of your son, on the Shahada of your son. Congratulations to you on the Shahada... ' For us, the mourning is joyous. We give out drinks, we give out sweets. Praise to God -- the mourning is a joyous occasion."

This same mother is quoted on "Islam Online" website ("www.islamonline.org") as saying, "I brought sweets and biscuits in order to change the day of joy to a new wedding, not mourning. I will sweeten anyone who will come to bless me on the occasion of the first holiday of the Shahada of my son."

Palestinian Media Watch (PMW) has frequently documented how the PA political and religious leadership promotes martyrdom death. The teaching is that Islamic tradition views death while engaged in murdering Jews as something that need not be feared, but rather aspired to and anticipated with great pleasure. Young men are taught by religious leaders and through video clips that if they die as Shahids, they will merit 72 beautiful virgins in Paradise.

Marcus and Crook say that the Arab mothers' joyous responses to their sons' deaths and their celebration of their sons' "marriages" to the maidens of Paradise is a result of years of systematic PA indoctrination. Click here for more of PMW’s online Video Clip Library documenting such indoctrination.

They are out of their flipping minds.

The fact that you claim that Palestinian terrorism is caused by "hopelessness" demonstrates that you are most emphatically not up on current events.

#49 Kelly Cooper

Well zulubaby, I'm a handsome and well educated kind of scum. I'm the kind of scum that read books and follows current events and enjoys a nice dinner. What kind of scum are you?

The first part of the LLL paragraph...typical.

There's a bridge calling your name...

It lies in addressing the Arab-Israeli conflict in a way that meets the needs of both parties.

Yeah, you're a genius.

#49 Kelly Cooper

The solution the beligerence of Hamas does not lie in a systemic elimination of all sympathetic Arabs. It lies in addressing the Arab-Israeli conflict in a way that meets the needs of both parties. Indeed, terrorism is fucking sick. But we need to thing beyond our revulsion and attack with intelligence.

It takes intelligence to realize that when people are sending their children to die because they hate Israel that much, nothing Israel can ever do (besides die, G-d forbid) will ever placate them.

So you don't waste more decades and lives trying.

You fight to win against terror.

It doesn't mean killing every Arab or every Balestinian.

It just means fighting to win.

Happy Thanksgiving, Cornholio. It was a wonderful day.

But we need to thing beyond our revulsion and attack with intelligence.

Oh he's not nodroG. It's John Kerry! A more nuanced "war" on terrorism.

Hey Kelly, the next time some Muslim tries to fly a plane into your building, why don't you "think beyond your revlusion"

Cornholio,

Hope you had an OUTSTANDING Thanksgiving.

But we need to thing beyond our revulsion and attack with intelligence.

I don't know how Israel has managed to survive all these years without Kelly Cooper.

Listen you twit, when you see your loved ones lying in bloody fragments on the sidewalk, come talk to me about getting beyond revulsion. Get off your amoral high horse and back to reality.

#57

Thanks, you too Zulubaby. A lot to be thankful for. But I ate too much turkey! {:-)}

Kelly Cooper,

When someone with an axe is beating down your door to kill you and your family, do you:

a. Invite the person into the house to give them coffee.

b. Do nothing and wait for the person to get inside.

c. Wish that this wasn't happening.

d. Decide that it's definitely NOT happening.

e. Fight back to save your family's lives.

If you think you're so intelligent, then you must know the right answer to this without exposing yourself so horridly yet again as a flaming LLL.

Oh good crap. This is the central political and military issue of our time. I gathter that you all think war is the answer. Am I right? Do you think we should go to war about this? Seriously. I just want to know. No through Iraq or Afghanistan, but through Palistine. Should we - under the guise of WAR ON TERROR attack Hamas and "Palistine". I'm really curious.

If there ever was anything coming close to "historic Palestine", it was in the IInd century when the Romans remained Judea as a part of the panishment to the Jews after Bar Kochva revolt.

The Arabs avoided the term for centuries considering it usislamic until they found the way to use it to obliterate Jewish history and real connection to historic Jewish homeland and the name survived only on Christian maps.

Also, the Arab insistence on calling Israel "Palestine" only emphasize the historic fact of the Arab conquest of the land, but in the age of ignorance there are too few people able to see the irony in the Arabs starting to use the old Roman term for the area that under Arab and Turkish rule was just the most neglected corner of the Syrian province for over millennia.

Cornholio, when I complain to my sister-in-law that I'm so full, she tells me, "Thank G-d" :-)

#46 Abu Maven

It's not only religiosity, though. The Palestinians perceive themselves as injured parties; they think that something has been taken from them and they want it back. It matters little to them that before the establishment of Israel there was no recognizable state of Palestine. History is malleable in their hands.

This is the blood feud to end all blood feuds that we're witnessing over there, with Islam and desire for revenge twisted up together into a bolus of hate.

Kelly Cooper, you haven't yet explained how we would have made peace with Nazi Germany and Japan rather than fighting WWII?

How would you have made peace with Ted Bundy rather than hunt him down and lock him up?

How would you have made peace with Jeffrey Dahmer? What would have truly made him happy except more skulls and dead body parts?

Sometimes there is NO "win win" situation. Sometimes the enemy just wants you dead.

The moral thing is to stop the enemy and live.

#62 rightasrain

B, C, and D sounds like Dutch law...no shit.

Oh yeah, lock yourselve up in the highest place in the house until they leave...do not attempt to defend.

Thank God I'm an AMERICAN.

Do you think we should go to war about this?

Who's the royal "we"? Israel has an army.

No through Iraq or Afghanistan, but through Palistine.

There's a country called Palestine?

By the way, since you're so up on current events and all that, have you read the Hamas Charter?

#63 Kelly Cooper

Do you think we should go to war about this?

Israel has the means to win this war on her own.

We should stop asking Israel in any way to do otherwise and then take on the Arab world if they flip out.

Hey Kelly,
You can't negotiate when someone wants to kill you. You see, they don't want to negotiate. They want blood of Jews. If they renounce this unifiing goal, they renounce their power and all evidence clearly shows thet their power does not thrive when peace prevails.

It's pretty simple. If the Mexicans started murdering Texans because they are the rightful and historical inhabitants of the land, while screaming for the blood of American innocents, is negotiation and appeasement a peaceful and intelligent practice? Peace is not won by creative, novel and intellectual approaches. Peace is won by the destruction of inhibiting factors. That simply meant wiping out the enemy of peace.

Would you negotiate with a rapist who says that he will continue to rape until sex is provided to him? After all, he just wants to have sex, and why should he be denied it? Then you say...hmmm... you're right. I'm a peaceful guy and in order to reform you, here's my daughter for you to have sex with once a week, and $20, just don't rape anyone anymore.

Palestinians have relinquished their right to negotiate. They've relinquished their right to bargian with Israel. They only want freedom so that they can take other's freedom away.

They need to be held accountable.

#63 Kelly

Oh good crap. This is the central political and military issue of our time. I gathter that you all think war is the answer. Am I right? Do you think we should go to war about this? Seriously. I just want to know. No through Iraq or Afghanistan, but through Palistine. Should we - under the guise of WAR ON TERROR attack Hamas and "Palistine". I'm really curious.

YES!!! IN FACT-- HELL YES!!! I THINK WE SHOULD HAVE WIPED OUT HAMAS BEFORE WE WENT INTO IRAQ!!!

I THINK NEXT SHOULD BE NORTH KOREA
THEN IRAN
THEN SYRIA
UNTIL THEY GIT IT- WE ARE JUST ALLOWING MORE TO DIE!!!

THIS WILL BE AN ALL OUT WAR BEFORE IT IS OVER- NO DOUBT!

SO, I SAY LET'S GET IT DOEN BEFORE MY GRANDKIDS ARE STILL DEALING WITH THE SAME CRAPT!!!

#68 Intestinal Fortitude

B, C, and D sounds like Dutch law...no shit.

Wow, I didn't know that.

Oh yeah, lock yourselve up in the highest place in the house until they leave...do not attempt to defend.

"Sensitive" home defense? No thanks!

Thank God I'm an AMERICAN.

Yeah, NO KIDDING!!

Thanks for the info!

#63 Kelly Cooper

This is the central political and military issue of our time.

This needs a further explanation because I beg to differ.

Okay. What's the solution?

OH, AND IF YOU WANT TO CALL ME A WARMONGER- LOL! OKAY FINE, BUT HTEN WHAT DOES YOUR BRILLIANCE CALL THEM? THEY FEEL HOPELESS??? UNTIL THEY STOP THE TERRORISM- I FEEL HOPELESS!!!

SO, NOW AM I A VICTIM? OR IS THAT NOT POSSIBLE SINCE I LIVE IN AMERICA??? ONLY POOR COUNTRIES CAN FEEL THEIR PEOPLE ARE BEING TREATED BADLY???
OH, AND BEFORE YOU ANSWER THAT LAST QUESTION- ASK SUHA HOE FREAKIN' POOR SHE IS???

Jaybird, the solution is to fight terrorism to win.

#65 zulubaby 

when I complain to my sister-in-law that I'm so full, she tells me, "Thank G-d"

Yes, it sure beats being hungry. But I just ate half of an entire pumpkin pie. And I hear the pie calling my name from the refridgerator. It must have been baked by the devil. >:-)

#59 Intestinal Fortitude

Happy Thanksgiving to you too! You have the perfect nickname for a post-Thanksgiving thread :)

On a another thread I was chastised for not knowing enough about the human condition and that I was jumping to conclusions about Muslims. My thoughts are that not all Muslims are extremists. So I get slammed because I did not agree on interring all the Muslims in the US, nor wiping out all Muslims who did not sign some sort of pact denouncing Islam.

This observation about me was because I commented on the Mennonites live in my community and some concluded I had no "experience" on Muslims to make any comments.

I guess the fact that I was in Bali a little over two years ago when Paddy's was bombed gives me some perspective into terrorism.

Two of my very close friends from AU were killed, three others were slightly injured but suffered severe shock. I was back at our rented beach house when the blast went off and immediately ran back to where bodies were literally strewn across the beach. I am an ER Doc where I've worked major trauma units. The scene at Paddy's was a nightmare. The Bali's were totally unprepared for the amount of severely wounded, there were no triages, only a couple of ambulances, it was chaos. Among the Westerners killed were many of the locals, Muslims. The people of Bali were horrified by the bombings.

I've traveled to countries that have large Muslim populations, Indonesia, Malaysia, cities like Hong Kong, Bangkok, and have never been threatened, instead have been treated very warmly.
But I haven't been to the Middle East. There are over 1 billion Muslims across the world, with up to 6 million here in the states. Muslims here in the states immediately condemned the actions of the terrorists after 9/11. Some on here have advocated that we should learn how to hate all Muslims.

You don't have to hate in order to protect, if someone demostrates that they want you dead, or actively threatens you with harm or death, you have the right to protect yourself without guilt or hate. A logical decision backed up by facts.

It was a very difficult and costly war to fight Nazi Germany and Japan.

We did it anyway. We had no choice.

We didn't whine and call it a quagmire every few weeks.

Sometimes war is necessary to win the peace.

Terrorism is a different sort of war and it's not going to be any easier. We still have to fight to win.

We have no other choice.

Build the fence, keep the Palestinians out of Israel, away from Jews. Let them figure out how to get their own water, their own electricity, their own jobs, their own economy. I'm not interested. If they can't manage, they can always go back to Jordan. Enough. I'm no longer interested in what makes the Palestinians, or the rest of the Arab world for that matter, happy, sad or otherwise. They don't have to love us, they just have to stop killing us.

#77 rightasrain

Jaybird, the solution is to fight terrorism to win.

Aren't we doing that? Isn't that what the GWB presidency is now focused on?

But that won't change any of those Arab minds in the short run. it's going to take quite a while to turn that around.

evil conservative, you have the caps locked and loaded. We hear ya :-)

#81 zulubaby

Complete and utter separation is a very good goal in all this.

Israel doesn't need marriage counseling to get along with the Balesitnians. Israel needs a divorce.

83 zulubaby

wooops! sorry, caps off! sipping slowly.

66 Anne Observer

They may think that. Nonetheless, study after study has shown that the only reliable predictor of willingness to carry out suicide bombings is religiosity.

And it makes sense. There is a distinction between feeling wronged and being willing to blow yourself up on a bus. You need an ideology that makes you believe that this sort of act will get you virgins to take that next stop.

Look at the native peoples throughout Latin America, particulary Bolivia. Hell, they feel very wronged by the white man. But this phenomon of suicide bombing has not emerged.

#81 Zulababy

Build the fence, keep the Palestinians out of Israel, away from Jews.

That is against EU resolutions!

/sarc comin' atcha!

We can certainly thank the Un, EU and most especially Kofi for their support of terror through legitimizing hamas and hezbullah. In the case of hamas, the Un has been especially cooperative by employing some 7k+ in UNRWA within the TerrorTories®(your tax dollars pissed away assisting genocide). Lets hope they(unrwa) can't raise a half-penny for their arsenals, UNRWA Appeals for $186 Million in Emergency Relief for West Bank and Gaza

By smell and date, the Un's certainly some 50 yrs past its expiration date for systematic dismantling and destruction. Its time to get a move-on with that overdue task.

#82 jaybird

Aren't we doing that? Isn't that what the GWB presidency is now focused on?

We're talking about the Arab-Israeli conflict.

But that won't change any of those Arab minds in the short run. it's going to take quite a while to turn that around.

The civilized world needs to keep the Arabs from acting on their hatred until they figure out how to live their own lives instead.

rightasrain,

Israel needs a divorce.

For starters, absolutely. Then, the whole world to mix out and worry about their own business.

evil conservative, L'Chaim.

79 Bubble Girl,

Neither Hong Kong nor Bangkok has a large Muslim population.

#63 Kelly Cooper

Oh good crap. This is the central political and military issue of our time. I gathter that you all think war is the answer.

I gather you either haven't heard about the wall, or you oppose it. Which one?

Wait! I wanna bet $1 on this - you oppose the wall, right?

Right, zulubaby!

The UN has delayed a General Assembly vote against Sudan.

The raping and murdering of black Africans is a minor issue for them. Arabs are doing it so they must have good reasons to be killing other Muslims who just happen to have darker skin, they figure.

/rolled eyes

#86 Abu Maven

We don't disagree. Without doubt, Islam propels the Palestinians to the extremes of suicide bombing in the feud.

91 zulubaby

"to Life" (L'Chiam back at ya) :)

When 25% of Israel's security fence was finished, it stopped 90% of the terror attacks.

The world is screaming bloody murder over it, too.

Gandhi's grandson visited and said that this fence is WORSE than suicide bombings. He really said this.

I'd like to ask him to make this choice:

1. Live with your family near a fence.

or

2. Go up to a suicide bomber and hug him along with your family while the bomb is going off.

What an idiot!

Should we - under the guise of WAR ON TERROR attack Hamas and "Palistine". I'm really curious. 

YES! Okay, as a Canadian I have no right to say that.

Kelly Cooper -0
Lizardoids - 15+

You betta bring it! It's been brought!

Kelly,

You want ideas? (Note, some of this taken from really, really old posts of mine, sorry if it comes across as disorganized)

For any meaningful progress to occur, we must first stop the religion-fueled hatred and incitement throughout the Arab world that feeds and promotes terrorism. An outside-in approach that stops the cause at their roots - in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Lebanon - with a trickle down effect to the terrorist groups in the territories.

Simultaneously any and all evidence of terrorist groups in the territories – posters glorifying 'martyrs', TV shows promoting terror, the groups themselves, imams promoting terror, inciting textbooks, etc. - must be destroyed, either by the Palestinians, or Israel can do it for them if they refuse.

Of course, foreign government involvement could dramatically speed up the cause of democracy and anti-terrorist ideology in the Palestinian territories if they so wished. One quick thing that both France and Saudi Arabia could do is deny access to Hezbollah to their satellites - there is no legitimate excuse for allowing an unabashed terrorist group access to technology to spread their hatred and incitement. Freedom of speech does not include selling satellite time.

Although it is impossible to bring such programming to a halt, it is within Washington¹s reach to lessen its scope and availability. One approach is financial. Al-Manar¹s $15 million annual budget comes largely from Hizballah, which in turn gets the money from Iran (Lebanese law forbids direct foreign-state funding of local television). Al-Manar has significant advertising revenue as well. Until 2002 the four biggest Western corporate advertisers on al-Manar were Coca-Cola, Pepsi, Procter and Gamble, and Western Union. After an op-ed appeared exposing their business with the network, the companies pulled the advertisements immediately (the op-ed, written by Avi Jorisch, appeared in the Los Angeles Times on October 13, 2002; the full text is available at [Link: www.washingtoninstitute.org...] Al-Manar¹s numerous European advertisers have not followed suit, however. The station also continues to run announcements of bank accounts to which donations for suicide bombing and other terrorist acts can be sent. The Treasury Department should use the full weight of U.S. law to forbid transactions with any bank that maintains such accounts. In addition to financial pressure, the United States should urge France and Saudi Arabia, the countries that host al-Manar¹s two major satellite providers, to remove the station from the satellites in question. That would block al-Manar programming from reaching 95 percent of the globe. Inside Hizballah's Al-Manar Television

Additionally, seeing as how Europeans provide the bulk of what is the largest amount of foreign aid per capita in the world, they must use their pressure to force serious democratic reforms in the PA and force Palestinians to adopt a zero-tolerance policy with regard to terrorism against Israeli and Palestinian citizens.

In lieu of Palestinians being forced to reform (from without or within), Israel has but only one option, to continue what has been a successful military assault against the terrorist infrastructure that has enabled these attacks to occur and wait until a viable Palestinian leadership understands that permanently dismantling terrorist organizations like Hamas, instead of forming tactical alliances against Israel, is better suited to their interests than jihad.

The poll may be correct or incorrect, designed for bias or totally professional, a valiant attempt to understand Arab minds or a total lie, that never happened.

I believe all polls of Arabs (including Israeli citizens) are valueless. The respondents tell the pollster what they think he wants to hear or what they think he wants to believe about them. If I was in their position I might do the same thing.

You guys are so spot on. Everyday there's some story about some Palestinian getting shot, sorry, but who the f#$#k cares.
I don't. They don't deserve a fraction of the attention they get.
MSM is responsible for this compulsion to cover Palestine 24/7.

#86 Abu Maven

Look at the native peoples throughout Latin America, particulary Bolivia. Hell, they feel very wronged by the white man. But this phenomon of suicide bombing has not emerged.

Has it ever in recorded human history emerged anywhere else? The closest that I can think of is the kamikazes in WWII, but they were military men going after military targets. No, it took a noxious shoot of Islam, festering in the desert for a 1000 years, to come up with using kids to blow up other kids and other innocents.

What amazes me is the romance of the leftwing that urges tolerance and somehow somewhere finds beauty and importance in a cult that conducts itself this way, and conducts itself in dozens of other despicable inhumane things that they happily do in the name of their allah. It's just utterly confounding.

Kelly, you're living in a land of settling disputes in daycare and making bullies stop being mean on the playground.

You can't talk a terrorist into being reasonable. You can only kill him before (s)he kills you.

The Palestinians are poisoned from birth, reared on hatred, taught that to be a mass-murderer is honourable. This has nothing to do with poverty or any other such bullshit. I grew up in South Africa, I saw poverty and oppression and lots of it -- the real thing. If poverty breeds terrorism, South Africa would no longer exist. Anyone who thinks that the Palestinians slaughter Jews because of their living conditions has no idea what they're talking about.

If poverty and hopelessness breeds suicide bombing then why aren't Canada's Aboriginal population in Manitoba regularly detonating themselves in Polo Park shopping mall and the Boston Pizza on McPhillips street in Winnipeg?

Duh... You accepted the excuses of terrorists at face value.

103 Jaybird

Yes, the "tolerant," feminist, pro-gay rights, and anti-imperialist Left loves the Islamofacists who are intolerant, hate women and gays, and are attempting to take over the world.

Other than that, it makes perfect sense.

David Folk-Thomas is a hotty

A looney leftie once asked me, "If someone were stealing your house, wouldn't you send a child of yours on a suicide bombing if you thought it was the only weapon you had?"

I responded, "Are you out of your flipping mind???"

The romanticizing of terrorism by the left is utter insanity.

Bubble Girl (#102)

Everyday there's some story about some Palestinian getting shot, sorry, but who the f#$#k cares.

If Israel was randomly shooting Palestinians, yeah, I'd care. When Palestinians are shot it's because they're shooting first, or trying to sneak into Israel to murder Jews. If Israel so desired, she could wipe the Palestinians out in an hour. The Palestinians use the Israelis' humanity against them. They know that Israel won't send missiles into crowds of civilians so the terrorist leaders surround themselves with children to ensure their own safety. The cruelty of the Palestinians is endless. They use their own children to kill Jews and then celebrate!

108 eeevil conservative

Laurie Dhue is a hottie..what's your point?

LOL

When we started the war in Afghanistan, I asked an LLL (very pro-feminist person, of course) if she was happy that we were going to free the women over there from the burqas and beatings of the Taliban.

She was LIVID.

She didn't want the women freed from burqas and beatings unless we were going over there for that specific reason.

Fighting terrorism was the WRONG reason, so the women could stay in their burqas and be beaten for the rest of their lives, as far as she was concerned, until we went over there specifically for them.

It made my eyes hurt from rolling back in my head so many times.

rightasrain (#109)

A looney leftie once asked me, "If someone were stealing your house, wouldn't you send a child of yours on a suicide bombing if you thought it was the only weapon you had?"

A variation on the "they only have stones" argument.

Let's put that lie to rest.

Palestinian Weapons Production and Smuggling

#113 zulubaby

Great link!

Thanks!

Imagine if Israel blew up bodies, randomly
shot at civilians, and razed villages in a fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan. "Palestine" would be a goner pretty quick.

Evil conservative, your comment about David Folk Thomas momentarily baffled me -- I assumed you were a man!

Bubble girl-newsflash for you. The PA and their supporters don't tell the truth. They lie all the time. Like the time they claimed that the Israelis shot two children playing at border.

How old were the children? 17. What were the children playing at? They had "a toy" ketusha rocket launcher they were aiming at Israel.

If it was a toy that is the stupidest bloody game any 17 year old child could possibly be playing. Take a toy gun out and play you're going to shoot a cop and you have no right to scream when the cop shoots you in self defense.

If you believe it was a toy I've got some ocean property in Saskatchewan for sale.

111 Intestinal Fortitude

LOL!!! still sipping slowly

A looney leftie once asked me, "If someone were stealing your house, wouldn't you send a child of yours on a suicide bombing if you thought it was the only weapon you had?"

see, this is the BIG LIE (wathcing those caps zb), no one is stealing the land. The Jews have been living there and building there communities there since the begining of Bible times. The land was promised to the Jews by the British since like 1917. (going off memory here) When , nevermind- I am preaching to choir- ya'll probably know this history better than I do.

Kelly,

This is the central political and military issue of our time

You state this as if it were assumed knowledge - it most assuredly is not. The Israeli-Arab conflict is merely a symptom of a much larger issue at stake - the lack of freedom, women's rights, and scientific knowledge in the Arab world coupled not only with an archaic and often fanatical religion governing politics and whose adherents often use Islamic teachings to sanction war against infidels but also with relentless history of brutal autocracies showing constant disregard for the well-being and modernization of their populations. Not to mention the tribal mentality and preference of myth over reality that plagues the Arab world...

Yes, there is a 100 year-old Israeli-Arab conflict, but it is not where the main show is.

* The millions who died in the Iran-Iraq war had nothing to do with Israel.

* The mass murder happening right now in Sudan, where the Arab Moslem regime is massacring its black Christian citizens, has nothing to do with Israel.

* The frequent reports from Algeria about the murders of hundreds of civilian in one village or another by other Algerians have nothing to do with Israel.

* Saddam Hussein did not invade Kuwait, endangered Saudi Arabia and butchered his own people because of Israel.

* Egypt did not use poison gas against Yemen in the 60’s because of Israel.

* Assad the Father did not kill tens of thousands of his own citizens in one week in El Hamma in Syria because of Israel.

* The Taliban control of Afghanistan and the civil war there had nothing to do with Israel.

* The Libyan blowing up of the Pan-Am flight had nothing to do with Israel,

* and I could go on and on and on.

A View from the Eye of the Storm

#112 rightasrain

Fighting terrorism was the WRONG reason, so the women could stay in their burqas and be beaten for the rest of their lives, as far as she was concerned, until we went over there specifically for them.

Okay - weird connection? Every single person I know who took this same viewpoint in regards to what they derisively termed "that war on terror" coincidentally despised Jews.

Not sure what's up with that - these are neither Jews nor Arabs I am speaking of. Just seems to work out that these people who dislike the "war on terror" also disliked Jews, every single one of them.

Haven't heard much from the left about women's rights in the middle east, though they will screech all the live long day about how STRONGLY they feel about women's rights in general. No compassion for the women in Afghanistan atall.

zulubaby (113),

You see this?

#117 eeevil conservative

Oh, I corrected the lie about the "stealing" to this person, too.

What blew me away was the idea that this LLL thought that I would personally want a child of mine to commit suicide.

They've lost their minds. When they start in with "logic" like this, it's completely delusional.

Abu Maven -

There are Muslims in Bangkok, they co-mingle along with the Buddhists and Catholics even though there has been increased violence from extremists in the southern provinces. Hong Kong also has Muslims, but not a significant portion of the population, I think there are more than 50,000.

I guess what worries me is that there is a group who consider all Muslims, everywhere, as our enemy. With over 1 billion across the globe, that's a large number of potential threats. Even after Bali I don't believe all one Billion Muslims are extremists. The people of Bali were genuinely shocked and appalled by the terrorists. They weren't out dancing in the streets.

I do agree that the extremists are murderous thugs, that those who want us dead have forfeited any consideration for continuing their own useless lives. If given the chance I would have no qualms in personally executing those who killed my friends. I don't hate them, no need to, they're nothing more than rabid dogs who need to be put down.

121 rightasrain

They've lost their minds. When they start in with "logic" like this, it's completely delusional.

LOL!!! AMEN

#117 eeevil conservative

You are too funny!

Just saw your picture too...not bad!

Take care all, G-nite and Happy post Gobbler day!

What gets me is the huge number of people so willing to accept any lie the PA and company makes about Israel without question. They believe before finding out the true facts.

Do I think antiSemitism might have anything to do with it? You bet I do!

#119 monkeyweather

Yup, the people I know who are against the "war on terror" despise the Jewish state with a vengeance.

They'll sometimes claim that this doesn't mean that they hate Jews, but rather they just hate absolutely everything Jews do to save their own lives when mass murderers are stalking Jews.

I guess what worries me is that there is a group who consider all Muslims, everywhere, as our enemy. With over 1 billion across the globe, that's a large number of potential threats. Even after Bali I don't believe all one Billion Muslims are extremists. The people of Bali were genuinely shocked and appalled by the terrorists. They weren't out dancing in the streets.

I know some of these kinds of Muslims. We have them here. they do exist. A few people in this blog always try to state anything Muslim is evil and any follower of Islam is a terrorist and there is no such thing as a Muslim who is against terror unless that person isn't really a Muslim.

If you look at the Wahabbi style stuff coming out of Saudi Arabia and environs I actually agree with the assertion.

But not all of Islam nor all Muslims can be judged by that kind of Islam. Be prepared to be viciously attacked by some individuals here if you dare say that out loud though.

And I don't believe there is a single moderate Muslim left in the West Bank or Gaza. They are either dead or they've left.

Bubble Girl, the Arab Muslims are by far the biggest problem.

The spread of Islam is downright dangerous because of the abuses and lack of freedom (PLUS terrorism), but what makes Islam truly monstrous is the Arabs. Islam is their invention and it reflects the sadistic point of view of the Arab world that is causing so many problems.

Hey Judith -
I don't give a F#$#k about the Palestinians, and the MSM is a big part of the fake stories coming out, so I am in total agreement with you. I'm sick and tired of hearing about the "poor misunderstood Palestinians", they get off on killing Jews because they are nothing more than whiners, complainers, and thugs.

My point was, and it's getting late, is that the MSM prints stories every day about Palestinians getting shot, and I know perfectly well why they were shot because they were up to no good, but the MSM leaves that part out as we all know. It's getting old, year after year this fawning over Palestine. I could care less if they fell off the face of the earth, and am glad Israel has that wall.

#125 Judith
#126 rightasrain
Yeah, the lot of them are determined to NEVER see Israel's side of ANY issue - I flat out asked one of them a couple of months ago why she couldn't just come out and admit she was anti-Semitic instead of busily trying to justify terrorism (of all things) with a buncha BS fake stories culled from Air America and she was horrified.
She'd just gotten done foaming at the mouth over what "complete crooks and thieves and liars" all Jews were, but felt her opinion of Jews wasn't anti-semitic atall.
Go figure, huh?
Oh, btw rightasrain, the "war on terror" to them was "a convenient excuse to do whatever we wanted" and also "a Halliburton plot"

Paranoid AND anti-semitic!

Well, I don't think every single Muslim is an extremist, but then again, the Arab/Muslim world doesn't need 100% approval to get away with the monstrous things that its worst extremists do.

It only took 19 guys to do 9/11 (all of them Arab/Muslims.)

Their society fosters it and their authorities do nothing to stop it.

The Muslim world will pay the price for this because we're not going to let our civilization die off to spare the people who surround the monsters who are trying to kill us.

122 Bubble girl,

I have been to both Hong Kong and Bangkok in the last month. Muslims comprise probably 1% of the HK population and 5% of the BK population. By comparison, I live in NYC, which probably has a higher Muslim population.

I agree that not all Muslims are the enemy, however, it might be that all practicing Muslims are the enemy. On its face, Islam clearly prescribes jihad and killing the infidels, so I am not sure how one can be a practicing Muslim and peaceful at the same time.

I know the Sufis are supposedly more or less peaceful because they predominantly interpret jihad to mean "inner stuggle," but even that seems inconsistent with the overall tone of the Koran.

Yes Judith, I admire you for sticking up for the Muslims who aren't part of the crazy ones, and yes, you guys are right, it is the Arab ones who are to blame.

So Good night, and hope you all had a good Thanksgiving, if that was your plan.

Take care, Judith, I misunderstood your posts from before. You go girl...

#130 monkeyweather

Oh, btw rightasrain, the "war on terror" to them was "a convenient excuse to do whatever we wanted" and also "a Halliburton plot"

YUP, I've seen this, too (among LLLs I know.)

A "friend" told me that Bush was elected because he managed to scare the Christians (as if the danger of terrorism doesn't exist.)

The MSM, the Balestinians and nearly everyone claims that Israel only uses "fighting terror" as an excuse (as if Jews weren't being slaughtered by the people Israel is fighting against.)

It's mental illness with little chance of a cure, unfortunately.

SecHumanist, thanks, I hadn't seen that. So helpless they are, they're practically building a city under Israel! Did you see last week when the tunnel collapsed on about three or four of them and the IDF had to go rescue them? They arrested them of course ...

I have said it a gazillion times by now, but it is a great pity that the Palestinians don't put their time, energy and creativity toward building instead of destroying. They are a most destructive people and their own worst enemy.

So noted, Bubble Girl. Glad we agree about the Palestinians. The moderates exist here but they are silent. The kind of people who do speak out are like this woman.

Arafat -- the symbol of Palestine

Wed Nov 24 2004

Shahina Siddiqui

"MUCH has been said about Yasser Arafat and his negative influence on the Palestinian people. Some have blamed the stalled peace process, the violence, the suffering and the ongoing conflict in the Mideast on Mr. Arafat."

"This is overly simplistic. It is an attempt to reduce the complexities of the Middle East to the lowest denominator of "Arafat and Palestinian bad", "Sharon and Israeli good." The fact of the matter is that Mr. Arafat with all his faults was a symbol of nationhood for his people."

"My first introduction to Mr. Arafat was as a young student in Karachi in the 1960s when a movie was released about the Palestinian resistance. It was a graphic tale of suffering and persecution that my parents forbade us from watching."

stuff snipped about pathetic Palestinians turned out of their homes in 1948.

"I therefore refuse to phrase this conflict as a religious war between Judaism and Islam -- Palestinians include Jews , Christians and Muslims. Therefore, when I read how reasonable people blame the conflict between Palestinians and Israelis on the hatred they say Mr. Arafat imbued in his people, I just shake my head in disbelief. Why this wilfull blindness?

"Let us be fair -- if suicide bombings are an expression of hate, then so is Israeli persecution of Palestinians. I believe, though, that such name calling is counterproductive and not worthy of a civil discourse."

If? If?? IF??!!?? Is this woman out of her mind?

Shahina Siddiqui of Winnipeg is president of the Islamic Social Services Association of Canada.

The answer is yes, she's out of her flipping mind.

Arguing about whether or not "all Muslims" are extremists is a useless argument, really. It doesn't take 100% to do what Islamists are doing now.

Also, Muslims who disagree with the extremists get murdered, too.

The danger is there whether it's 73% or 99% of the Muslims who agree with the danger.

We still have to fight it in the same way.

I'm a tough nut when it comes to this issue, I know, but sorting out the moderates from the extremists is not my problem, it's theirs.

rightasrain,

I don't think it's pointless. It goes to the question of whether the Koran itself can logically be read in a peaceful way. I'm no expert, but I see plenty of evidence to suggest otherwise. And if that's the case (the problem is the Koran itself rather than merely some extremist interpretations of it), the problem is even harder to solve.

Arguing about whether or not "all Muslims" are extremists is a useless argument, really. It doesn't take 100% to do what Islamists are doing now.

It is not a useless argument to state that one shouldn't judge a all persons belonging to a group as a terrorists or supporter of terrorism based on one single identifying charcteristic. All to often individuals here freely characterize all Muslims as evil and everything about Islam as evil. That is wrong.

#138 zulubaby

I'm a tough nut when it comes to this issue, I know, but sorting out the moderates from the extremists is not my problem, it's theirs.

Absolutely!!

If Muslim societies don't like the results of having other nations fight them because of their own Islamic extremists, then THEY should be the ones taking care of them (for their own protection.)

Judith,

I ask this in all honesty: what evidence do we have that the Koran and the Hadiths can be understood in a peaceful way? When it says "kill the infidels," that's just a metaphor?

I wonder if this would help people like Kelly Cooper understand the reality of what terrorism does to people's lives. It is reprehensible to defend terrorism even if it comes from the "poor Palestinians". I can't stand how Palestinian terrorism is treated as a legitimate "cause". It sickens me.

Among the moderate Muslims I do know, they stay silent in part of fear from the extremist Muslims among them (I'll guess 90%) but they also stay silent in part out of fear of those who judge all Muslims as terrorists (10%). We're not going to get rid of Islam and the Koran. Both are here to stay. So why do we tolerate those nonMuslims who insist on making it harder for the moderates to speak up?

All to often individuals here freely characterize all Muslims as evil and everything about Islam as evil.

I don't believe all Muslims are evil but I absolutely do believe that Islam is. It's an oppressive, violent and misogynistic death cult.

#140 Judith

It is not a useless argument to state that one shouldn't judge a all persons belonging to a group as a terrorists or supporter of terrorism based on one single identifying charcteristic. All to often individuals here freely characterize all Muslims as evil and everything about Islam as evil. That is wrong.

Do you stand up for the Balestinians in this way, too? When Israel has been bloodied horribly with women and children ripped to shreds, do you argue "YES, BUT NOT ALL THE PALESTINIANS SUPPORT TERRORISM. IT'S WRONG TO SUGGEST THAT THEY DO."

I hope you don't whitewash Balestinian terror in that way.

You're assuming that if people don't qualify every single statement against the dangers of Islam with statements about how not all Muslims are bad then they believe that every single Muslim is bad.

What you're doing is called "political correctness" (not to mention making a strawman argument and then knocking it down.)

It diverts the argument away from the attrocities and puts the blame on those complaining about attrocities by accusing them for something YOU assume that they're thinking or feeling.

#144 Judith

So why do we tolerate those nonMuslims who insist on making it harder for the moderates to speak up?

Do you belong to the school of thought that promotes the argument that Israel should give the Balestinians lots of very dangerous concessions to try to make it easier for the moderates to come forward?

I hope not.

Judith

It is not a useless argument to state that one shouldn't judge a all persons belonging to a group as a terrorists or supporter of terrorism based on one single identifying charcteristic. All to often individuals here freely characterize all Muslims as evil and everything about Islam as evil. That is wrong.

Just out of curiosity... how can you use this argument to defend Muslims (which I agree with by the way) and then just yesterday you were judging all CHristians over the Free Lutheran fiasco? I mean- I agree we can't paint a whole group because of some, and I know Muslims that LOVE AMERICA! (amazingly most of them are WOMEN!) I am kinda with zb on the aspect that it is up to them to distinguish themselves in some way. ANyway- I htink when over 70% of Arabs are in support of HAMAS- we have a real issue. "Profiling" becomes not only allowable, but necessary when it comes to security issues.
But I am not in favor of just randomely killing Muslims.

Anyway- I don't ask because I am wanting to debate it, I actually guess I am just asking you to rethink the judgement on Christians in general, due to your previous experience. Thanks

I ask this in all honesty: what evidence do we have that the Koran and the Hadiths can be understood in a peaceful way? When it says "kill the infidels," that's just a metaphor?

How about defining the term "infidel" to be any people who don't abide by a certain minimum set of decency such as the Jewish Noachide laws? Judaism has softened the entire thousands of years old injunction to kill all Caananites including women and babies, by stating there aren't any such people left to kill. Why can't Islam do the same?

Even the Mormons (mainstream anyway) have given up polygamy "in this life" even though it is a central tenant of the Mormon faith.

Not that the Balestinians even HAVE any moderate leaders, of course...

screw off eevil conservative- I did not condemn all Christians. I was giving an example of how Christianity can make good camoflage for pedophilies. STFU

Judith, do you consider people to be "pro-Israel" or "anti-Israel" if they start screaming after every suicide bombing that "NOT ALL the Palestinians are terrorists" in response to righteous anger against the mass murders of Jews?

rightasrain - see #127

knee jerk reaction. This woman doesn't think all Muslims are evil. = This woman thinks Palestinians are wonderful.

rightasrain, I appreciate that for some Muslims, speaking out may result in death but again, it's not my issue. At some point in one's life, it is necessary to stand up for what is right. I am a huge advocate of personal responsibility. It's time for the moderate Muslims to grow up. They have no problem marching and screaming about death to Israel and death to America. For a change, let's see some outrage about terrorism, about what is being done in the name of Islam.

149 Judith,

I am not aware of the specific injunction you reference, but isn't the whole distinction that the Hebrew Bible is believed by Jews to be inspired by God, rather than actually the literal words of God? As such, there is room for interpretation.. Whereas the Koran is believed by Muslims to be the literal words of God? How can Muslims plausibly "soften" what they believe God actually told them to do?

It's time for the moderate Muslims to grow up. They have no problem marching and screaming about death to Israel and death to America.

See, too me, that is NOT a moderate Muslim. That's a radical.

151 Judith

Good Grief! Did you bother to read the rest of the post? I wasn't being hostile at all!

Why can't Islam do the same?

Judith, ask your Muslim friends that question.

See, too me, that is NOT a moderate Muslim. That's a radical.

And to me, it's not my call. It is not up to me to make the distinction, it is up to them.

#153 Judith

knee jerk reaction. This woman doesn't think all Muslims are evil. = This woman thinks Palestinians are wonderful.

Notice how you changed my words. You couldn't make an argument against what I really wrote, so you wrote new ones for me. (Strawman argument.)

Your statement in #27 shows your hypocrisy. You flip out when you BELIEVE that people are saying something like this about Muslims in general (even when you have to rewrite their words), but you don't have the slightest hesitation to say this yourself when you feel like it:

And I don't believe there is a single moderate Muslim left in the West Bank or Gaza. They are either dead or they've left.

You've been found out. Repent and knock this off. Please.

I am not aware of the specific injunction you reference, but isn't the whole distinction that the Hebrew Bible is believed by Jews to be inspired by God, rather than actually the literal words of God? As such, there is room for interpretation.. Whereas the Koran is believed by Muslims to be the literal words of God? How can Muslims plausibly "soften" what they believe God actually told them to do?

No! Every word of Torah is true and perfect given to Moses verbatum as the absolute truth to most observant Jews. The interpretation part comes from a parallel set of oral teachings taught by Moses and handed down through multiple generations of first judges and then rabbis into today in a clean unbroken line. The interpretation part is understanding how something applies in today's context. Most Christians try to read the Hebrew bible without knowing the other parallel text and that's the main reason they get so much of it wrong. They are reading translations, often poor ones, without context.

There are no moderate Arab LEADERS in Judea, Samaria or Gaza but something like 20% of the Arabs in these areas do not support suicide bombings. 80% do.

NO ONE has to keep making politically correct "NOT ALL" statements because someone else ASSUMES that an "ALL" statement has been made when it hasn't.

As zulubaby pointed out, their own society must sort out the extremists from those who wish the extremists would go away.

Our fight against terrorism can't be changed over this.

Tom Brokaw's leaving too! Two down, Jennings to go.

right as rain-Did you even bother to read what I wrote before you started asking me what I think about Palestinians?

What staement in #27? zullubaby made #27.

So Jews believe that the literal commandment of God is to kill all Canaanites?

My understanding is admittedly limited. But it seems to me that the main thrust of Islam is to conquer land, convert or kill the infidels and then impose sharia. Peace can only come after the entire world has been converted.

Judaism lacks any notion of conquering land and imposing the religion on others. So it seems that Islam is inherently militaristic and violent. If Islam outlawed jihad and infidel killing, would it still be Islam?

Speaking of Hamas, speaking of weapons smuggling tunnels ...

Early Friday morning security forces blew up a 150 meter long weapons smuggling tunnel in south Gaza whose opening was found underneath the bed of Hamas activist Hamadan Hasnat in his home in Rafah on Thursday. According to officials, Hasnat used the tunnel to smuggle weapons from Egypt into the Palestinian side of Rafah.

During the operation to blow up the tunnel, a bomb was detonated and shots fired at soldiers. After completing the mission, troops pulled out of the area.

This is the 22nd tunnel to be found by security forces since the beginning of the year.

Ooops, my mistake. I went way past 127 (100 comments too far.)

This statement is NOT hypocritical coming from zulubaby but it would have been hypocritical coming from you, Judith (since you're the one screaming if people don't put a "NOT ALL" in their statements about Muslims.)

Sorry, zulu. Virtual hugs!

So Jews believe that the literal commandment of God is to kill all Canaanites?

Well I wouldn't want to speak for all Jews but that fits my understanding.

Judaism lacks any notion of conquering land and imposing the religion on others.

Actually no. According to the Hebrew bible we were given Israel by G-d to go in and conquer and kill all Caannites and take it for our own because G-d said so.

Now if Judaism can contain that inherent belief and STILL be a religion of peace and justice, so can the Koran. In time. Given enough rabbis of Judaism's caliber.

David Folk-Thomas is a hottie!!!

#164 Judith

right as rain-Did you even bother to read what I wrote before you started asking me what I think about Palestinians?

Judith, don't debate if you don't understand how it's done.

I was looking for CONSISTENCY in your argument by asking you if you do the same jumping up and down and screaming in defense of Balestinians as you do Muslims in general.

OH!!! And another correction, Judith.

YOU DID WRITE THIS IN 127:

And I don't believe there is a single moderate Muslim left in the West Bank or Gaza. They are either dead or they've left.

I just mistyped the number.

So you ARE a hypocrite.

Israel fumes at Straw's floral tribute to Arafat

"When you lay a wreath at someone's grave, you are identifying with what the person believed in," a senior Israeli diplomatic official said. "It is infuriating that foreign leaders will now want to identify with Arafat's legacy."

Diplomatic sources said that no high-level discussion on whether to ask foreign dignitaries to refrain from this practice has been held. "We snubbed officials who went to talk to Arafat when he was alive," one official said. "We can't very well do that to those who want to talk to him when he's dead."

"We don't like it when Arafat is placed on a pedestal," Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev said. "We would hope the new Palestinian leadership will make a clear break from his legacy, and that the international community will encourage them to do so."

A British Embassy official said the gesture was discussed beforehand, and the embassy was aware there would be negative Israeli reaction.

... but didn't care. Jack Straw, go to hell. Soon.

Right as rain- Was that an apology for calling me a hypocrite then? Or was that an apology to Zullubaby for mistaking him for me?

I admit I'm a wee bit touchy today after being called a slut and bitch and few other things yesterday.

Maybe so, but that's limited to Israel. There are no aspirations in Judaism to establish a global "Caliphate," impose Jewish law on the entire world, etc... In fact, converting to Judaism is discouraged.

Also, although the Hebrew Bible contains violence, it certainly doesn't seem to be the main thrust, as it does in the Koran.

Ah jeez. I see Judith has stepped in it again. I remember her posts from a few days ago when she wrote about some Muslims she knows that she considers to be truly good people. All I understand her argument to say is that the collectivization of guilt is a bad thing. And I agree with her and will support that argument.

I'm sure there were and are good Germans. But a slew of them just needed killin' and the same goes for Muslims. I'm with z'babe on this - it isn't my problem. The mythical moderates had better start cleaning house on their own, or the infidels will do it for them. I have no sympathy for the 'good' Germans and I have no sympathy for the 'moderate' Muslims.

BTW, Judith, IIRC, you are a veterinarian? If that is correct, could you please email me? Molly the Beagle is in intensive care and I am going to every source I can find for info.

Let's see. There are a billion Muslims living all over the world. I say that not alll Muslims are evil. I also say the ones in Palestine aren't moderates. Somehow this makes me a hypocrite?

You logic escapes me.

Judith, you are someone with the habit of coming into one of the most pro-Jewish and pro-Israel blogs that I've ever seen and making an enormous stink as though we're all supporting suicide bombings here.

Why you do this is anybody's guess.

You should yell at the moonbat sites. Ruining their threads would make all our days over here, especially if it meant that you weren't doing it here anymore.

Judith, I'm a girl.

Maybe so, but that's limited to Israel. There are no aspirations in Judaism to establish a global "Caliphate," impose Jewish law on the entire world, etc... In fact, converting to Judaism is discouraged.

We do look to the coming of Messiah however, when a Jew WILL rule the world. So even the Koran could be interpretted that way, in the right hands with wise rabbis.

#175 Judith

Let's see. There are a billion Muslims living all over the world. I say that not alll Muslims are evil. I also say the ones in Palestine aren't moderates [meaning that they are extremists. -ed]. Somehow this makes me a hypocrite?

Extremists are the evil ones, Judith.

Do you get it now?

Kelly

#25: The possibility for peace is always present.

The possibility for peace is not the same thing as peace.

The possibility that I will die tommorrow is always present.

Does this mean that I should walk around everyday waiting to die? Would this be an effective way to live my life, always being open to the idea that I could expire at any moment?

Peace is like money - everybody wants to be rich, but few are willing to do what is necessary to actually become rich?

I've ever seen and making an enormous stink as though we're all supporting suicide bombings here

WTF? Where have I ever said that?

#174 grayp

I'm sure there were and are good Germans. But a slew of them just needed killin' and the same goes for Muslims. I'm with z'babe on this - it isn't my problem. The mythical moderates had better start cleaning house on their own, or the infidels will do it for them. I have no sympathy for the 'good' Germans and I have no sympathy for the 'moderate' Muslims.

AGREED!

Extremists are the evil ones, Judith.

Do you get it now?

Where have I ever said extremists are not evil??? All I've said is all Muslims aren't extremists. Do you get it now?

#181 Judith

"I've ever seen and making an enormous stink AS THOUGH we're all supporting suicide bombings here"

ATTENTION: Fulltime translator needed for Judith.

sincere apologies zullubaby- I knew that.

so sorry about yoour dog grayp-I'm not a vet I'm a geneticist.

Judith, you're making a big stink about NOTHING, as usual.

When you decide that you WANT to start yelling and screaming that not all Balestinians are bad after the next terror attack (G-d forbid), then you will be consistent when you try to slam everyone else for not doing so when Islam is criticized.

You are taking a pro-Israel site and stinking it up with your argumentativeness.

I would tell you this privately if I had private contact with you, but I don't.

Please stop what you are doing.

rightas rain-maybe you should learn some manners, like it isn't nice to call people hypocrites when you don't know what the fruitcake you're talking about.

Judith, I do know which fruitcake I am talking about: you.

You are doing damage with your actions in a place that HELPS and SUPPORTS ISRAEL.

Knock it off.

When you decide that you WANT to start yelling and screaming that not all Balestinians are bad after the next terror attack (G-d forbid), then you will be consistent when you try to slam everyone else for not doing so when Islam is criticized.

I have no idea what that means and I've decided I'm tired of trying.

I'm also sick and tired of you making statement like I "slam everyone" when I have consistently tried to always use terms like "some posters here" ect.

I'm tired of you too. Go call someone else a hypocrit.

#118

I agree with you completely! However, they do have a common goal, or desire, and that IS the complete destruction of Israel and every Jew and Christian living within its borders.. I believe it has a further goal as well,, and that is to spread its filth - Islam - to every corner of the world so as to subjugate the entire world with hatred, murder, lies, and the list goes on.

Over my dead body...

rightasrain- I know you are but what am I.

Judith, you are doing damage here.

This blog supports Israel and YOU ARE DOING DAMAGE HERE!

KNOCK IT OFF.

I say this to you as an Observant Jew. I have no need to be gentle with you while you are ultimately hurting Israel.

I will say "PLEASE", though.

Please knock off what you are doing and don't do it again.

It may be that not all muslims are extremist - but ... there are no moderate muslims either. All muslims will choose the dark side of that filth than be seen as weak!

Stating all Muslims are not evil is hurting Israel?? I do not understand you at all.

SecHumanist (#118), forgot to say ... great post, as usual.

Judith,

You take a pro-Israel argument and turn it into your normal stinkshow.

KNOCK IT OFF.

Please.

Leave Israel alone. Let people here support Israel without having to wade through your utterly useless arguments about what people are NOT saying.

Thank you.

148 eeevil writes:

Anyway- I don't ask because I am wanting to debate it, I actually guess I am just asking you to rethink the judgement on Christians in general, due to your previous experience. Thanks

151 Judith writes:

screw off eevil conservative- I did not condemn all Christians. I was giving an example of how Christianity can make good camoflage for pedophilies. STFU

then eeevil writes:

Good Grief! Did you bother to read the rest of the post? I wasn't being hostile at all!

(crickets chirping)

then

187 Judith writes:

rightas rain-maybe you should learn some manners, like it isn't nice to call people hypocrites when you don't know what the fruitcake you're talking about.

hmmm??

MANNERS??

Judith, you belong in a private chat room where people are just screaming at each other over nothing but none of it is saved for others to read.

I can recommend a few, if you'd like.

LGF is not the right place for what you're doing.

Kelly "Pretty Boy" "Good Eats" Cooper

These people want their children to live.

BS
Sue to get your college money back, pronto.

Interviewer: "… Of course, the reward of Umm Said and of all martyrs' mothers is not in vain. The patience, the strength to bear the pain and the example we draw from them. Not only locally, this is an experience that is now shared by all societies. We always say – as you mentioned earlier – that Allah will give you strength and patience. I would like you to close on an optimistic note."

Umm Said: "Allah be praised, I am very happy. On the contrary, I am crying out of happiness. This is a blessed day, the day my son gave me reason to hold my head high..."

Mothers of Other Martyrs Praise Their Sons' Acts

Martyr's mother #2: "We cherish the memory of the martyrs' blood. I'm proud of my son's martyrdom."

Martyr's mother #3: "I am prepared to sacrifice my life. All I want is martyrdom. I'm willing for all my children to become martyrs. May my husband also become a martyr, and Allah willing, may I die as a martyr."

Martyr's mother #4: "Compared to others, what I sacrificed is nothing. It's true I sacrificed a son, but others have sacrificed two or three. I hope more of my sons will become martyrs."

Martyr's mother #5: "Allah be praised. I thank Allah for all the good He has bestowed upon us. He has blessed us with martyrdom. Allah willing, we too will be martyred, just as they did."

Five out of five moms agree.

#79 Bubble Girl

On a another thread I was chastised for not knowing enough about the human condition and that I was jumping to conclusions about Muslims. My thoughts are that not all Muslims are extremists. So I get slammed

You were not "slammed". I pointed out your use of a hasty, illogical, generalization.

You are still using faulty logic:

I guess the fact that I was in Bali a little over two years ago when Paddy's was bombed gives me some perspective into terrorism.

The 9/11 terrorists trained in my state, and Mohammed Atta picked someone up from an airport less than ten miles from my house. We've had dozens of terror arrests in Florida, an anthrax attack, and I have a CAIR-approved imam just up the road.

Am I Steve Emerson, Daniel Pipes, Charles, zulubaby, Robert Spencer, Mossad, and Tom Ridge all rolled into one now?

okay, right as rain, I give up. I don't get it. I do get called a slut a bitch a hypocrite and accused of damaging Israel here. Why am I here? Damned if I know. It doesn't seem too be any kind of place I belong.

Am I Steve Emerson, Daniel Pipes, Charles, zulubaby, Robert Spencer, Mossad, and Tom Ridge all rolled into one now?

Sheesh, Beagle, flattery like that will get you everywhere ;-)

From last Thread (with a bit of Big changes)

The Dhimmi faith

Why don't the LLL build some more foundations in the Dhimmi Ideology, It's simple Really:

1) Get a wooden Peace symbol and set it up in Paris.
2) Nail a mulla onto the Peace symbol.
3) Put some pink fake Ann Summers knickers on the mulla's head.
4) Use a violin as a spear hitting the mulla's left chest.
5) Use a large hammer to smash all the mulla's bone's on it's right side, in accordance with the LLL saying "and there was no longer any right wing bone in my body".

And then blame the Jews and Kafirs for the mulla's death for all time.

and Voila! may I have everyone's attention please and introduce to you the new Dhimmi savior known as mulla waseem abu bin ballas.

Next time on building the Dhimmi faith:

- The Eurabian Great Leap Backwards in Time : Where Muslim's and Dhimmi's work together "Peacefully" Destorying American, Israeli and other Kafirs business.

- The Eurabian Saigon : Where Eurabian troops "liberated" American "Occupied" Italy with cooperation from Vactian City and how we managed to Capture most Satanic Conservative "Boat People" and "Persuade" them into becoming Dhimmi's and maybe even becoming Muslims by sending them into "Reducation and Tolerance Camps" in North East Turkey next to the Armenian border.

Plus

- Driving Greater Israel into the Sea

- The Iron Veil

And Becoming One with the World!

I agree that 'moderate' Muslims have to contend with the extremists. That's if the moderates can be flushed out of wherever they're hiding. If about a fifth of the world's population is Muslim, one would expect just a bit more noise from the aforementioned moderates.

I remember that when Kenneth Bigley was well into his horrendous ordeal at the hands of his savage kidnappers, some noise was made in the mass media about two British Muslims who'd gone over to Iraq to appeal for his release. The spokesman for the two on TV appeared to be mentally challenged and when I saw them the next day he was silent and his friend had taken over.

To say that this 'moderate' Muslim effort was too little too late would be a gross understatement. Muslims, apart from a very few brave souls, don't seem to have any kind of handle on the worldwide terror that is being carried out in their name. Or they do, but they silently support it.

Judith, your arguments are misplaced, that's all.

You support Israel yet you behave as a troll in a pro-Israel blog.

It would be like going to shul on the Sabbath and arguing with everybody (thus ruining the Sabbath for them) because you've got some stupid thing that you insist on getting off your chest.

It's wrong and you ought to know it.

#199 Beagle
I've seen that monsterous crap and I have to tell you - I don't believe those women for one minute. And this is what I think is the true evil of Isalm - that it so distorts the role of women that they are forced to deny their most fundamental humanity in the public community. It is against human nature for a parent to celebrate the death of a child. And Islam forces people to do just that. But I'm betting that when they're alone and no one is around, these women are weeping into their pillows.

Judith, a gentle word to you. You seem to be having trouble getting your point across. Consider that it may be you who is not expressing yourself clearly enough. I hope you take that as I mean it, which is not in a harsh way at all.

Judith, try Rabbi Pliskin's book on "Anger."

It's awesome. He shows how people ruin their lives and everyone else's by being unable to control their anger (and how to overcome it.)

We all have anger issues at times. I love this book!

Take a look (and also try "Happiness" by Rabbi Pliskin.)

He's got a lot of really wonderful books.

Judith, I rarely go a day without reading something uplifting by Rabbi Pliskin. He's a good source for everyone, really. I think non-Jews ought to read what he says, too.

Peace.

Or they do, but they silently support it.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

209 zulubaby

Great quote!! Edmund Burke

nighty night all!!!

Happy Day After Thanksgiving!!!

Happy Day After Thanksgiving to you, eeevil conservative!!

grayp (#205)

But I'm betting that when they're alone and no one is around, these women are weeping into their pillows.

I used to think so too but I'm no longer sure. Remember that woman whose son was a suicide bomber and she wanted all her sons to be suicide bombers? I'm too tired to search for the link right now. It's demonic and I don't want to believe that anyone can be that evil, least of all a mother, but what I want to believe is irrelevant.

Some stores open almost pre-dawn today. :)

#205 Grayp "And Islam forces people to do just that. But I'm betting that when they're alone and no one is around, these women are weeping into their pillows."
My thoughts exactly. In public Muslims will fall all over themselves trying to outdo one another yelling and screaming about the Jews, but who knows how they feel in private? It looks like it's going to take generations, if ever, for the hold of radical Islam to be broken.

#209 ZB And great minds (yours and mine) think alike!

#213 zulubaby

Remember that woman whose son was a suicide bomber and she wanted all her sons to be suicide bombers?

If I recall correctly, this was the mom who appeared in her son's suicide video to tell him how happy she was that he about to die while killing Jews. She wanted all her sons to follow him.

Actually, it's become fairly common, so it could be any of the moms.

The one I'm thinking of was the mom of the kid who broke into a yeshiva and killed 5 sleeping students his own age. He was killed by return fire from security, I think.

Wanting their sons to die is a plague in Balestinian society.

Kelly,

Don't know if you're still looking at this thread, but what did you think of SecHumanist's ideas? And notice his handle ... "SecHumanist." I'm a secular humanist too, AND an atheist. I don't like war, I like melting-pot style diversity (I'm not sure about multiculturalism anymore, as idealistic as I am I'm not sure it can work), I'm in favor of gay marriage, I don't like the NRA, I don't like Rush Limbaugh. Hell, I think "under God" should be removed from the Pledge of Allegiance (the Baptist minister who wrote it didn't put it there).

But we have to be clear-eyed and realistic about what's going on.

I realize you think some of the charges made in here about Arabs and Palestinians are hysterical or paranoid, and hard to believe. I understand. It's very difficult for kind-hearted, good-natured, tolerant people like us to imagine that other people can be THAT bad. Surely we're all basically the same, and want the same things, especially for our children?

Well, that's what we want to think, and actually, most of the time it's even true. If it wasn't the world would have been a cinder decades ago. But there ARE exceptions.

Many kind-hearted, good-natured, and tolerant people just couldn't believe the Nazis could be so bad. Surely it was just propoganda, just demonizing the enemy to make it easier to kill him. Only it wasn't. They really were that bad. They really were the stuff of nightmares. Nazi scientists really did conduct hideously painful, lethal experiments on living, conscious innocents. The Nazis, aided and abetted by hundreds of thousands, millions, of ordinary Germans (not to mention other Europeans, especially the French) really did slaughter millions of unarmed men, women, and children, particularly Jews, in an efficient, assembly-line operation. It's all quite well documented. It did happen. It's not a myth.

The Arabs/Palestinians haven't killed as many Jews as the Nazis. YET. But it's not for want of trying. It's not for not having the mindset to complete Hitler's work.

The evidence is there for the viewing. It's not made up. The Arabs and Palestinians really DO vilify the Jews/Israelis, slander them, caricature them, accuse them of all sorts of horrifying, bloodthirsty acts (including drinking the blood of Palestinian children) and evil global conspiracies. It is a fact that Arabs and Palestinians say one thing in English and another in Arabic (i.e., supporting a "two state solution" in English and calling for Israel's destruction in Arabic). This has been caught on tape and video, MANY times. The book "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion," which has been proven a forgery many times over, really IS regularly presented as gospel on Arab TV. You can watch video clips of respectable-looking Arab professors talking in a matter-of-fact way about how Jews are evil and Israel should be annihilated. You can also watch clips of children calling for jihad and blood vengeance. The incitement to violence, the brainwashing, is REAL. It IS happening.

If the Palestinians really wanted just a state of their own, they could have had it many times in the past fifty years or so. From 1948 to 1967 Israel didn't even control the West Bank or the Gaza Strip, Jordan did. Nothing was preventing the Palestinians from setting up their own state with Jordan's help. Why didn't they? Why did Arafat found "Fatah" (conquest) during this period, if all the Palis wanted was a land of their own, and weren't interested in destroying Israel? What was there to conquer?

It is so blatantly obvious what the Palestinians (and apparently, the majority of Arabs) really want for Israel that it is just silly to deny it. It is also silly to deny what Islamic terrorists in general want, when they have confessed with their own mouths that they want to destroy secular democracy and create a global Islamic empire. I wish that was just macho talk, but they match their actions with words. Freedom loving people must find the will to stop them.

The only report I've ever read about a suicide bomber's parents (or parent in this case) feeling bad later was one about a father who said that after all the partying was done (all the celebrations about his kid's death and the money he got) --- he woke up one day to the cold reality that his son was gone for good and that it didn't seem to make any sort of difference.

Then he grieved for real and felt like he was in hell.

Most people seem to keep getting money and attention so it doesn't hit them quite this way.

Eventually, it will. When the Balestinians lose and they realize that the terrorists got their kids killed for NOTHING, then I hope they string the Hamas (and other terror gang) boys up themselves.

#215 Tweety
Good morning! It's 5:30 am where I am and I have no friggin clue what I'm doing here this early.

It looks like it's going to take generations, if ever, for the hold of radical Islam to be broken.

Ah. But that's my point. Parents celebrating the death of a child who has committed suicide in the act of murder is NOT radical - it is SOP. Ultimately, that is why Islam is evil - it denies the life-giving nature that is given to us by G-d. So, altho' I applaud Judith's refusal to succumb to group-guilt, I will not stand for the ideology, and I hold those who self-identify as Muslims to be accountable for this horror or become appostates.

#217 Tigger2005

It is so blatantly obvious what the Palestinians (and apparently, the majority of Arabs) really want for Israel that it is just silly to deny it. It is also silly to deny what Islamic terrorists in general want, when they have confessed with their own mouths that they want to destroy secular democracy and create a global Islamic empire. I wish that was just macho talk, but they match their actions with words. Freedom loving people must find the will to stop them.

Well written and absolutely correct!

#205 grayp

I hope they are conflicted, at least. But I'm afraid their Jew-hatred and cultural misogyny trumps their softer side. Their standard of living improves when they offer up the child sacrifices as fast as possible.

#210 zulubaby

I've been posting here for some time now. You must have quite a favorites menu selection on Islamic terrorism and Jewish issues. Could I at least borrowa hat tip? Do you get crosseyed from reading foreign newspapers? ;)

#219 Grayp What's SOP? (I'm relatively new to the blog world).

Tweety "SOP" isn't even a blog term - it means 'standard operating procedure'

rightasrain, I found the link.

On Tuesday, the Palestinian mother offered her blessing to another son who belonged to the militant Hamas group this one killed in a mysterious explosion that also killed five other Palestinians Sunday in a Gaza City neighborhood.

"His whole life was for this," Farhat said. "I wish all my sons were like him."

The links in my post are no longer working but I found the article here: Suicide bomber's mother: 'Our children are in heaven, their children are in hell'

"When I see all the Jews in Palestine killed, that will be enough for me," his mother said on camera. "I wish he will kill as many as he can, so they will be scared."

Well, that's a lot better than 'SOB'!

The problem, of course, with Muslims becoming apostates is that it's a death sentence. Islam is very much like the mafia, in fact it only really differs from the mafia in that it is driven by a 'religious' greed for total power over others rather than financial greed.

#224 zulubaby

Thanks very much!

Yes, this is a disgusting display of the opposite of human nature.

Two years ago, I remember hearing Shai ben-Tekoa talk on DeProgram Program about how there are few forces in the world as powerful as the male sex drive and the love mothers have for cherishing and protecting their children. Some women have been known to lift cars to save a trapped child.

Balestinian society has managed to eradicate this force of nature in many of the mothers there.

It's an astonishingly sick thing to see.

Golda Meir once said that there would only be peace with the Arabs when they learned to love their children more than they hate Jews. The Arabs in Yesha are getting worse.

Well, goodnight folks!

Best wishes!

#122 Bubble Girl

Even after Bali I don't believe all one Billion Muslims are extremists. The people of Bali were genuinely shocked and appalled by the terrorists. They weren't out dancing in the streets.

Yes, Bubble Girl. But the Balinese are not Muslims, they are Hindus.

The Bali bombing was as much an attempt by Jamal Islamia to undermine the Balinese tourist-based economy as an attack on Westerners as such. The Jihadists were killing two birds with one stone. To them the tourist economy is a source of Kuffr corruption that they would like to wipe out from their pure pan-Islamic state. Killing crusaders was just a bonus. The domestic struggle was always their primary motive, I believe.

P.S. Meant to say that those two forces are "powerful forces of nature."

gnite

Tweety, I don't know about you but at this hour, my mind is a bit groggy :-)

Beagle,

You must have quite a favorites menu selection on Islamic terrorism and Jewish issues.

You have no idea. I'm an information junkie, I don't stop reading. I'll share my hat tips with you anytime :-)

rightasrain, I despair when I think of all those Palestinian babies that are being poisoned with Jew-hatred as we speak. I don't know how this will ever end which is why I believe that we need to just separate ourselves from them and make it impossible for them to inflict their cruelty on us. And we need another Golda Meir.

Night guys, love you all lots. Happy Thanksgiving!

Teheran first, please. We have to get our priorities straight.

#226 rightasrain

I remember hearing Shai ben-Tekoa talk on DeProgram Program about how there are few forces in the world as powerful as the male sex drive

rightasrain, there is only one force in the world more powerful than the male sex drive and that is women's hair rays.

;-)

bigel, you forgot Paris.;-)

And Brussels, Oslo, Stockholm, Kuwait City...

231) bigel

I'll got a better Idea

1) Use a Caterpillar Bulldozer to destory the 2 mosques in Jerusalem to take back our Temple

2) Do a Dresden on Medina to allow whats left of Arabian Jewry (Me Included as a Yemenite Jew) to make Kadesh for the Arabian Jews that that were wiped out when mohamed set foot on this earth.

3) Do a Hiroshima and Nagasaki on Mecca as Justice for All non-muslims.

#237 Bigel Yes. The enemies of Israel and their appeasers are endless. I was going to add Amsterdam, but it seems that they are fighting back a bit.

bigel, this won't surprise you but I thought you would be interested. We have a very good friend (american) who lived in Paris for twenty years. He came back to the states in the early 80's. He is a real Francophile and we have agreed, for the sake of commity, not to discuss France and the French. However, earlier this year he went back to visit and was absolutely appalled - the filth, the crime, and the way he was treated as an American, even one who speaks near-perfect French. I refrained from saying "I told you so" and that self-restraint will probably get me into heaven!

Scrappleface at his awesome best:

Breakthrough: Iran to Aim Smaller Warheads at Euro Cities

More fun with Muslims...
Muslim Brotherhood not gone, just more radical and a proxy for Arab governments

...The novelty here, as well as in the case of the declaration of 26 Saudi clerics, is the role of Islamic clerics in expressing positions that their governments do not wish to state in public due to their sensitive relations with the United States.

...The West should view the Council of World Muslim clerics as a radicalization of the Brotherhood, which so far remained non-violent, with the exception of the Palestinian Hamas. Yet, even the latter confined its struggle to the local Palestinian arena and did not show any signs of globalization. What Western observers seem to view as "the end of the Muslim Brotherhood,"[7] might lead to a new platform of the movement, but surely not the end of it.

These "clerics" also provide the largest weapons depots.

The weapons cache, described by the U.S. military as the largest uncovered so far in Fallujah, was discovered Wednesday in the Saad Bin Abi Waqas Mosque, where fugitive rebel leader Abdullah al-Janabi often preached.

Troops found small arms, artillery shells, heavy machine guns, and anti-tank mines inside the mosque, the U.S. military said.

U.S. forces also uncovered what may have been a mobile bomb-making factory as well as mortars, rocket-propelled grenades, launchers, and parts of surface-to-air weapons systems elsewhere in the mosque compound, the military added.

Terrorism Overlooked
I wonder how Indonesia fits into the "America and Israel's fault" meme? Oh...

Iraq and Afghanistan aren't the only fronts in the global war against terrorism. There is also Indonesia. Yet this nation, home to the world's largest population of Muslims, has consistently failed to attract an appropriate level of attention from the American public and Washington. This has proved damaging to the security interests of the United States and of its friends and allies in Asia. For if Iraq and Afghanistan represent America's determination to fight the war against terrorism on its own terms, in Indonesia al Qaeda calls the shots and faces no appreciable effective resistance...

Hey, I know! Why don't some of our "allies" get off their lazy asses and do something productive. Two nations is enough for now, thanks.

Not to be outdone in blame-America-first, the NYT chimes in...
with their usual crap.

To begin changing this bleak picture, the Bush administration will have to work much harder at international bridge building than it did in its first term.

"Bribe the UN and France!"

Did I say death cult? I should have.

But an interview with a Palestinian mother on PATV yesterday indicates the depth of the PA society's worship of Death for Allah (Shahada), and support of suicide terror, which has not changed merely because of a change of leadership. In this program, a Palestinian mother of a suicide terrorist talks about how she and other mothers in her position see their sons Shahada death as a positive event -- like a joyful wedding.

The following is an excerpt from the PATV NOV. 17:

Moderator: "They [Israelis] accuse the Palestinian mother of hating her sons and in encouraging them to die. This is what we hear from Israelis. Is this true?

Mother Um Al-Ajrami: "No, we do not encourage our sons to die. We encourage them to Shahada [martyrdom] for the homeland, for Allah."

[She then talks about a group of women, all mothers of Shahids, who go to other mothers of Shahids during the period of mourning]:

"We don't say to the mothers of the Shahids, 'We have come to comfort you’, but 'We have come to bless you on the wedding of your son, on the Shahada of your son. Congratulations to you on the Shahada . . . ' For us, the mourning is joyous. We give out drinks, we give out sweets. Praise to God -- the mourning is a joyous occasion." [PATV, Nov. 17, 2004]

I think I'll go see how the basketball brawl story is working out. Oh, and what did the Peterson jury have for Thanksgiving? Paris Hilton, still a ho? Inquiring minds want to know.

A survey of over 100 thousand shows that 3/4 of Muslims want ethnic cleansing and support terror.

I can't see how anyone can think that the the coming century won't be at least as bloody as the last one.

Kelly dude, I stopped reading your posts when you got to that long ago disproven, but "it's because Palestinians are so poor" arguement. The arguement is also irrelevent in this context because this was a survey of Muslims around the world not of Palesinians...

Better that we take the initiative so that our civilization stands a chance and so that millions fewer of us die.

You don't like the solution? Of course, but the problem won't get better if it's allowed to fester while we neglect to prepare. One doesn't refuse to enter the basement just because he doesn't like the idea of hurricanes. It's coming whether we prepare or not. Better to take the initiative.

Tiananmen in Kiev. Russian Troops in Kiev

245 stefania

Jesus! 1000 Russian troops, disguised as Ukrainian troops?

God, that's dirty!

At least Putin understands enough to troops in disguise.

Imagine the fallout if he replayed 1968 in Czechoslovakia?

I hope this is only a rumor.

#245 stefania - I confidently predict that this will not be reported on much, if it is, the EU will ask for clarification and the US will "condemn the action" and "watch with interest".

US & EU will not upset Russia too much over a little corruption in a Ukrainian election.

#231 Bigel
from Little'el (Isra-)

Nice idea, but these are our neighbors, except for Gaza which is part of Israel. What are we supposed to do about the fall-out?
Reminder

10 The Bruce

A response to your post. It is appropriate as you brought up the Algerian civil war.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

We are headed into a civil war. In Holland we are beginning to see the first victims.

Islamofascism is on the rise - almost a tidal wave now and unless something is done it is going to be almost unstoppable, and many many people will die.
All the signs are pointing to a war - it sounds and "feels" like pre WW2 - with all the talk and preeminent violence going on.
Without taking the law into our own hands, I have no idea what to do other than to let people know about this danger.
Any ideas?

#248

That is a great pic! Puts things into perspective.

Cold War politics spawned MAD (Mutual Assured Destruction)

Islamofascism + nukes = Pre-emptive Assured Destruction

Russia and the US are both working towards new missle
defense systems

Prediction: Middle East will be the first test ground and an Arab
state will become a "glass parking lot"

I fear it is not only a rumor.

It will be a massacre

But the UN and the Media are too focused on Israel and the US to pay attention to Ukraine..

Well you'd be bored too.

It usually reaches that high? Did you shake anyone's hand?

This is my 'Blue Steel' look, I'm working on 'Magnum'

250) Trip

If our Governments fail to protect us then we'll have little choice but to take the law into our own hands. I do not know what to do awaken people even in my family, the only thing I can do now is to abandon them to their fate and add them to the list of my 44 distant relatives that died in the shoah. If you can't awaken your loved ones than I'd save yourself, It will be very hard as even I did not want to contemplate in leaving my loved ones behind but you go about it the way you want to.

Lots of bad news today- front page NYT joy that the new Iraqi government is meeting with the insurgents to negotiate their becoming part of the government (after Fallujah! after finding a mini Taleban state complete with poison gas labs and summary Islamic executions!)

No surprise, Iran is backpedaling on the latst rope-a-dope delaying agreement

The EU is ready to help the Palis stoke up their terror operations, knowing full well that until their is reform there is the not the slightest chance that EU aid will not be diverted to terror. But it is too important to help the Palestinians now that they are forced to function without their beloved Arafat.

#257 bigel:

You got a point.

None of this surprises me. It's been well known that most Pals. favor Hamas and want a Taliban like regime in the W. Bank and Gaza and favor suicide bombers. No surprise there.

Aegius

258 Ayatollah Ghilmeini

The BBC is already talking about accepting a nuclear armed Iran. Obviously they knew the score all along.

I didn't realize until this last year just how dishonest Europeans are. It's a continent full of lying face-savers. When they don't want to deal with a problem (which is all of the time) they lie about it.

North Americans are awfully honest in comparison.

#260 Aegius

Reread the article. They didn't poll Palestinians, they polled Muslim, worldwide.

Judith, try Rabbi Pliskin's book on "Anger."

The guy in "Escape from New York" was not only Jewish, but a Rebbe, who knew?

Bigel

Question, about the nick.

You're Bigel, and there is another poster who goes by Big L

Is that Yiddish/Hebrew/something else?

And what does it mean?

Going back to 'moderate Muslim' thread and the foul mouthed and increasingly psychotic (and poorly named) 'Reason', did we ever determine whether he was from Phrogistan, Phroggish Canuckistan, the Bay Area, what race it was, gender, etc?

US Envoy for Higher Education in Iraq murdered Wednesday in Baghdad.

#151
Judith how can a religion that teaches against pre-marital sex, homosexuality, divorce and polygamy be a good camouflage for paedophilia? Only the most liberal heretical strains can this be possible...so don't JUDGE Christianity in that way.
By the way in the Bible the Israelites were suppose to kill off all the Canaanites because they have reach the fullness of their sins in practising child-sacrifices...much like abortion in the US...it was part of the justice system of God...and when the Israelites were doidn it themselves..God sent the Assyrians and Babylonians to kill them and disperse them!...They were part of the execution of divine justice...the sam ecan't be said of the Arabs today. They kill because you are an infidel.

258 Ayatollah G

Lots of bad news today- front page NYT joy that the new Iraqi government is meeting with the insurgents to negotiate their becoming part of the government (after Fallujah! after finding a mini Taleban state complete with poison gas labs and summary Islamic executions!)

Predictable. The Iraqi government is just using American forces to deal with the jihadis. At the end of the day, they are all muslims, and infidels are after all infidels.

Afghanistan, that much lauded new islamic democracy, was declared a sharia state long before the elections, and under US auspices and blessings. So it will be in Iraq.

I just hope that Iraq turns out right, if for no reason that the sacrfice of coalition lives is not in vain.

Given that the Palestinians overwhelmingly support terrorism, why does the President talk about giving them a state? He should be talking about a Fullajah-style operation against the Palestinian savages.

Perhaps LGFers should start a campaign to enlighten the White House:

* Islam is not "an honorable religion"
* There can never be peace between Israel and a society committed to genocide against the Jews
* No amount of diplomacy will dissuade Iran from pursuing its goal of annihilating Israel

Note to President Bush concerning upcoming Iraqi election: This pro-Hamas vote is a clear indication of what "democracy" means to a Islamofascist.

All Mohammedans of age are the enemy.

"Moderate Muslim" is a fictional term designed to either deceive Dhimmis into converting or to position themselves as Moles to resurface as true Mohammedans when called to do so.
This World-Wide Jihad is escalating something fierce, yet most Dhimmis dither.
Not encouraging...
Bat Ye'or's new book 'Eurarabia' and all the other great wake-up books, especially Orina Fallaci's, and all the other intelligence that indicates what Islam is really all about seem not to have any impact on the leaders of this country, WTF is up?
Now Israel is considering NOT finishing the wall to keep out the terrorists? WTF!

#267 Ed

Going back to 'moderate Muslim' thread and the foul mouthed and increasingly psychotic (and poorly named) 'Reason', did we ever determine whether he was from Phrogistan, Phroggish Canuckistan, the Bay Area, what race it was, gender, etc?

Nah. Think it was one of them transexual transnational bots.

Notice that Judy is here again gettin' her panties in a wad as usual.

In this war against Islamists, I think Patton said it best...

"The best Defense -is Attack. The best Offense -is Attack."

'nuff said.

wooo wooo...my L^3 friend owes my 5 bucks now :)

seriously though, does this suprise anyone ( i havent chekced over the posts yet)

though it is depressing...i can't say im suprised

#274 LSD

Yep. Some people lookin' for guidance in their lives consult the I Ching or tarot cards before makin' a move. I prefer to ponder on "What Would Patton Do?"