Uno?

I’ve contacted them to ask why the film was taken down.

I hope that they will respond...

Probably a letter from a "lawyer" to the effect of;

"Take down the film from your site or we will slit your throats you infidel pigs."

Would bandwidth be a possible issue?

One of the e-mails there:

If you could remove Islam from the equation, left standing would be:

1. a woman publicly flogged for having premarital sex;
2. a woman forced to marry a man who repulses her;
3. a woman violently beaten by her husband;
4. a woman repeatedly raped by her uncle;

If any of the above scenarios is condoned in any way, by any religion, then that religion must necessarily be brought to task.

Excellent point, no?

Threatening to slit my throat would be redundant. Internet Haganah is still hosting the movie.

[Link: internet-haganah.co.il...]

F*ck 'em.

Very likely the latter Not the former.

Seriously, though. I first saw Submission on IFILM - it is definitely worth seeing, and it is a shame it has been removed. During my first viewing, I kept asking myself whether the maker of this film really had to die for it - it all seemed so absurd.

Regardless of how unsympathetic a work of art is in its portrayal of a religion or ideology, there is no excuse for murder; it is the ultimate form of censorship - which is why I'm surprised that the Hollywood crowd and the Western intelligentsia have by and large kept silent over the Van Gogh incident.

I think one of the more sinister aspects of Islam is that it tolerates no questioning of its tenets or practices, which, in effect, dismisses the free will of a human being. Our free will is one major determinant of who we are. To demand blind obedience without question reduces us to sheep, and IMHO, excises that part of us that God put in to make us unique.

Demanding that the harsher and more unpleasant truths of the RoP be quashed (i.e. Submission) make me want to see more.

The link to the "angry muslim" emails led me to a series of annoying and indefatigable ads.

From one of the more recent, sane emails:

The verse that talks about beating women is the same as the one talking about praying. Both are not explained in the body of the Quran. They are explained in the words of profit Mohammad. Go and look for the defense of these verses and you will know how far the movie went from what we believe.

Earl, are you around to address this?

If one is having sexual intercourse in a room, and the Quran is in the same room, then it should be kept in a cupboard or wrapped with some cloth.

Cover it's eyes?

Just freaking amazing. Thanks for hosting it Aaron, I'm snagging it now tho and will toss it on a CD.

A comment form one of the letters:

If yes, then Ayan and Gogh have hurt the feelings of a billion people around the world.

Waaahhh! They hurt my feeelings! (Is this guy a Democrat?)

Fun "fly with me" flash, however.

How's this for an explanation: they don't want their throats slit?

There is a context to being a believer; and religion often is a tool for justification of action rather than a system of thought, law, and ethics that guides behavior. Van Gogh -- whose film should not have merited his death -- and Ali have conflated Islam (a faith) with Islam as it is practiced in Somali. There is an important difference that is lost in the reification of the two and one that should have been openly stressed instead of being omitted from the film.

Right, wife-beating, rape, incest ... they're all "cultural" things. Muslims outside of Somalia are the perfect citizens. A lot of the anger is directed toward Theo van Gogh. They're forgetting that Ayaan Hirsi Ali was a Muslim.

In Islam, if a man rapes someone, a man or a woman, he will be executed.

If a man beats his wife he will be punished in hell in the hereafter.

The guy who wrote that thought he was actually defending Shari'a!

Did anyone read the one from the girl (at least I assume it's a girl) in the "Women's Studies" class? What a loser.

The Islamic apologetics in some of those emails are flagrantly dishonest--certain to fool the lefties.

A lot of the other ones interpret it all from a Western leftist feminist perspective universalizing the problem of abuse of patriarchal power, etc. careful to never specifically condemn Islam.

No third world culture can ever be judged negatively.

I still haven't gotten anything but ads. I can't even get onto their main page.

You know, it's against my nature to ask for help, let alone $, but this could get costly, and I'd like to make sure this movie stays in circulation. So far I've only lost one mirror of the Haganah site because of this (excess bandwidth usage). Anyway, the tip jar is out:

[Link: internet-haganah.co.il...]

The personal cost is worth mentioning too. I had an uncle. He's a film-maker in LA. After one too many hysterical anti-Bush emails I asked him when he was going to say something about the murder of van Gogh. His response was to the effect that Theo had it coming.

He's not invited to my funeral.

#9 traveler

I think one of the more sinister aspects of Islam is that it tolerates no questioning of its tenets or practices, which, in effect, dismisses the free will of a human being. Our free will is one major determinant of who we are.

I agree - this is why this culture continues to fail. It contributes nothing positive, just acceptance of problems - unless it is the existence of Dar al-Harb - intimidate or kill them. Other than that, I see no problem solving, creativity, advancement, or contribution to the world as a whole.

The murder of Theo Van Gogh was a sick crime that still boggles the mind. What I don't understand is why these Muslim fanatics are so concerned about films and books (like the Satanic Verses) tarnishing the image of their faith. When you murder (or threaten to murder) somebody over a film or a book then you make your religion look worse than a thousand works of art possibly could.

#19 Megan,

As a postgrad English student who has had too many close encounters with these folks, I can safely say that the central precept of Women's Studies is that white-skinned, heterosexual males are the root of all the world's evils. And don't get me started on "the male gaze"...

What I don't understand is why these Muslim fanatics are so concerned about films and books

Because the word has power, and they know this. That's why they spend so much time trying to rewrite other people's history, not to mention their own, as if the truth is the story that gets told most often.

This is a big part of what they have in common with the nazis that they idolize.

#19 Mega

This film reminded me of a grad class on gender, race, and empire that I took.

I read this part --the first sentence-- and then stopped. Nothing good can come out of a class entitled "Gender, Race, and Empire in Film." I noticed she was writing from Arizona State University. How lovely. One of our moonbats.

#24 mickthemick

You're dealing with primitive minds that aren't too concerned with P.R.. To their way of thinking, they are protecting their God and Prophet from being insulted by inferior infidels and that takes precedence over the optics. Besides, they also intend to send us the crucial message that such "irreverence" will not be tolerated.

Context? As practiced in Somalia?
I thought all Muslims were one unified brotherhood, as in what happens to a Palestinian effects the entire world of Islam. Doesn't the oppression of one qualify for the outrage of all?
Doesn't Somalia count?
If one Imam issues a fatwa, all "faithful" need to obey it, right?
So if Muslims in Somalia are being oppressed by "bad" Muslims, (since the faith MUST be practiced "correctly") where is the fatwa against those who are actually "perverting" Islam?
Isn't actually perverting the religion and making Islam look like a barbarian joke a little more serious than some westerner making a derrogatory remark?
Where are the fatwas against terrorists, or Moslems who are oppressing others, as in Sudan, etc.?
I'll believe there is a sect of Islam that actually values peace when I see a fatwa against those they claim are hijacking and perverting it.
Sorry, I forgot Somalians aren't Palestinians, it's only a woman and Muslims are allowed to kill ANYONE who insults them, let alone opposes them.

And don't get me started on "the male gaze"...

That's why Allah Ta'ala invented hijaab, infidel. And the Noble Qu'ran is replete with Allah Ta'ala stating "lower your gaze".

This was an evil an unislamic film; it made me very upset indeed. Don't they know how wonderful it is to get beaten for not pleasing Allah Ta'ala?

Gotta go; don't want to get beaten for talking to you folks.

Ah...So Ifilm has taken Submission down. In the interest of spreading this film across the globe I feel the need to mention Blogtorrent
It's a tool made to help people share videos when they lack ostentatious amounts of bandwidth.

#30 Gambisin

If one Imam issues a fatwa, all "faithful" need to obey it, right?

I'm not so sure. If the fatwa is issued by a Shia, need it be obeyed by a Sunni, and vice versa?

Yeah, I wrote first thing this morning asking about it. No (human) response yet.

"Digital Penis," "Cowboy Jesus," and "Dykes and Their Dogs" are still up, so I don't think offending Muslims (or Christians) is a big concern at iFilm.

#31 Aisha

Gotta go; don't want to get beaten for talking to you folks.

No... don't go! -:)

#29 scaramouche
Yeah, I know. You're preaching to the choir, I guess my question in #24 was more rhetorical. I just cannot comprehend the murderous stupidity of these people. They seem to act without considering the potential backlash.

To all Muslims offended by the film "Submission" because of the utter, intolerable desecration of the koran? ... it still gives NO Person -muslim or not- the right to KILL another person.

Period.

The offensive MURDER of Theo Van Gogh FAR OUTWEIGHS anything his FILM did to offend and desecrate the Koran.

If you say "Submission" hurt your feelings enough to kill, and then you actually kill ... you are nuts and should be put away forever.

Is the Koran so fragile that it must have blood spilled in its defense?

Are the Korans' words not powerful enough to defend itself from any mere human-crafted film?

"If a man beats his wife he will be punished in hell in the hereafter."

But if he writes about it, we will saw his head off.

BitTorrent the movie file !

/yiddishe kope

BitTorrent the movie file !

You are waiting for permission or what? Don't say it, DO IT.

Islam is the enemy...

Islam is the enemy...

Islam is the enemy...

Islam is the enemy...

Islam is the enemy...

Islam is the enemy...

ISLAM. IS. THE. ENEMY.

If you don't get it by now...

You will. Oh, you will.

D. Edgren

Charles,
I emailed earlier my concerns that the voice of this victim's work was being silenced. Apparently, murder works successfully when used to silence for some film makers.

IFILM has suddenly developed an new concern over offending people with its films but its support not so important. IFILM didn't do an adequate job introducting large numbers of people to van gogh's film.

What is needed to gain an international audience is bought time on public or at least cable TV. Why not start a fund-raiser to approach corporate sponsors?

However, a immediate boycott of IFILM would be well deserved for their attempt to censor the film

Foul! Daily Kos is now in the lead for Best Blog. That's pretty wierd since they were at a couple percent. I do not trust this result at all.

...I would like to say that the murder of the filmmaker is also a gross misrepresentation of Islam.

So the cause of Van Gogh's death was a misrepresentation? Okay, thanks, I'm sure that makes him feel better.

...those who are committing these horrific crimes against these women are not following proper Islamic law to begin with.

Yeah, there are an awful lot of rules regarding beating and stoning to be learned. Must be tough to follow "proper" Islamic law.

#40

Still downloading from Haganah.. :)

43 Luigi

Foul! Daily Kos is now in the lead for Best Blog. That's pretty wierd since they were at a couple percent. I do not trust this result at all.

What do you mean? Its not like the KosSacks have any experience stuffing online polls or anything.

Its not like the KosSacks have any experience stuffing online polls or anything

That's what I'm darkly hinting at, yes.

btw, the movie is on all the mirrors (not just haganah.us).

[Link: [haganah...] mirror]/hmedia/11nov04-submission.asf

And another thing. If LGF wins, the event goes unnoticed. If Kos wins, it get picked up by the MSM.

kragar,
It's very simple; the readership of daily kos is not splitting their vote among several popular conservative blogs. All the liberal eggs are being tossed into the same basket.

50 ariana

All the liberal eggs are being tossed into the same basket.

Hivemind in full effect in other words.

had an uncle. He's a film-maker in LA. After one too many hysterical anti-Bush emails I asked him when he was going to say something about the murder of van Gogh. His response was to the effect that Theo had it coming.

The silence of Hollywood, which employs more than 200,000 people, is truly vile.

Faced with the ultimate challenge to freedom of expression by a religion, there is literally no entertainer, artist or entertainment executive in the most powerful country to take up that challenge. Not one.

Rayra would call this rank cowardice.

#43 Luigi

I wonder how many Kossacks will be banned for Kossing the poll ...

Sorry to go OT, but it's a small emergency.

Anyone knowledgeable about margarine around?

I'm shipping care packages to some soldiers in Afghanistan and one of them has a breadmaker. The request states how much they'd like bread mixes and butter.

I'm having trouble verifying for sure a brand that I can send which doesn't need refrigeration.

I bought a bunch of "I Can't Believe it's Not Butter" in squeeze bottles, but the label says nothing about refrigeration. The website is no help and their Question line is closed for the weekend.

I have to get these packages out tomorrow and all of my searches are dead ends.

Anyone have any advice?

#50 ariana

All the liberal eggs are being tossed into the same basket.

Maybe not. I don't accept most cookies on my 'puters. I just tried and I can vote as many times as I want. They're just cheating.

Too many ppl suddenly realised what they shud've done long back - download and save the film on their local drives. Now seems like lots of ppl are trying to make up for it and the download rate even on a broadband connexn is so poor, its maddening.

Kragar,
heh :-)

LSD,

I've read the entire Qur'an and it states the good Muslims MUST destroy, conquer and otherwise kill anyone who denies the truth that the Qur'an is the indisputable "word of god". I can provide the verses if you want to check out the language.
However, the Qur'an does not include statements backing up many of Muslim practices regarding women (ex: purdah) which were introduced by later Islamic writers.

You have to check out this example of BDS - this reporter should win the Darwin award this year.

Kos is now pulling ahead by leaps and bounds, and the votes are piling in at a stunning rate.

Certainly they have some monkeys on some typewriters and are clearing their cookies, voting, clearing their cookies, voting, clearing their cookies, etc...

Go ahead. Click on this and watch the votes pile in (unless it changes in the time it took to write this)

Sojourner --I would suggest the butter flavored shortening in cans. No refrigeration required

Margarine that requires no refrigeration is called ambient margarine

ALSO:

Whipped margarine in plastic tubs will stay fresh for several months if left unopened. Butter flavored Crisco works great for many baking recipes and needs no refrigeration.
[Link: www.sailingbreezes.com...]

Luigi,

There seem to be about 5-10 votes coming in every few seconds. If it's a script (it could be) Kevin will catch it I'm sure. I didn't see a front page link to the poll at Daily Kos but may have missed it.

If you just Refresh your browser you can watch the votes mount up.

I'm watching.

Maybe in a few minutes Theresa will call dinner and John will stop.

Its goes unabated. Kos' pct goes up every minute or so.

#9 Traveler:

Indeed. In fact, the word "Islam" itself MEANS Submission. that's the whole idea of the faith: Submitting to Allah, to Muhammad, to the cailiph, to anyone above you. Bend to the ground and scrape at their feet.

On the other hand Judaism has the word "Israel" as a personification of the Jewish people, in addition to the name of the Jewish State. Also, Israel was the new name given to Jacob after he wrestled with the angel. So the "children of Israel" also means the "children of Jacob" the third of the Patriarchs.

Israel translates to "he who struggles with God."

So... Muslims "submit to God." and Jews "wrestle with God."

Any thoughts on this distinction?

#62 Charles
If you don't accept cookies you can vote as much as you want. I tested it. They are cheating for certain.

I'm 61% done downloading it.

Charles must unleash his telekinetic lizard powers to prevent Kozzys from destroying the democratic process!

Look at the bright side. If it keeps up, maybe the Kossacks will end up disqualifying DK (hey, sounds like dick, neat) and get it kicked off the vote.

#66 Reaganite

So you yourself cheated to see if they were cheating?

I like the "think like the enemy" style, but in an old Japanese movie, you'd be forced to commit seppuku right now.

#5

...that religion must necessarily be brought to task.

Given the magnitude of genocide and forced conversion (in addition to the other horrors mentioned) wrought in the name of Islam, outright abolition merits consideration.

Yup, seems liek kos has gained lead in the best blog poll.
Time, the other conservative blogs withdraw from the race and endorse LGF
:-D

reaganutem

Hmm, I always vaccum out any cookies daily, and I checked to see if it made a difference on voting. It still shows that I have to wait until my 24 hours are up. Hopefully wizbang has other forms of protection against voter fraud.

#3 dgd
Probably a letter from a "lawyer" to the effect of;

"Take down the film from your site or we will slit your throats you infidel pigs."
***
Never bring a knife to a gun fight Muslam I'll drop you where you crawl

I feed my dogs and pigs dead male Muslams

Swine eat snakes dead or alive

#71 voletti

See #62

#69 pookleblinky

So you yourself cheated to see if they were cheating?

Well, yes and no... I went to vote today and it went through. Then I realized that I was about 8 hours shy of 24 hours from my last vote, so I tried again. It worked.

A little snooping at KOS explains it all:

;;#!/usr/bin/perl

;;use LWP;

;;my $browser = LWP::UserAgent->new;

;;my ;$url= "[Link: 2004weblogawards.com...]
;;my $response = $browser->post($url,
; [ 'option_id' => '3',
; 'action' => 'vote',
; 'poll_ident' => '5',
;]
;);

;die "Couldn't get $url -- ", $response->status_line
; unless $response->is_success;

;print $response->content;

"This poll is so non-scientific it's funny. Not only is it not scientific, it's poorly coded ... as in, worse than Diebold. I've voted a couply thousand times today thanks to a a little PERL script I wrote (posted above). I'll get Atrios and JMM some votes once DailyKos moves into 1st"

It figures that they would cheat, all the while discussing the evils of our electoral system and how flawed it is. What a pile of turds they are.

The Koran openly states that a husband may beat his wife and that a woman is like a man's cattle. It also clearly gives men the right to rape women who are in their power, particularly female slaves. I read some of the comments of the Muslim posters on that site with utter astonishment. What a pack of liars!

Here is what the Koran acutally says:

"Women are your fields. Go into your fields as you please."

"Men have authority over women because Allah has made the one superior over the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because Allah has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. Then, if they obey you, take no further action against them." (Beat them until they stop disagreeing with you.)

"You are forbidden to take in marriage married women except those whom you take as slaves." (So much for mutual consent.)

"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends. They are firends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship shall become one of their numbers." (So much for multi-culturalism.)

"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you."

"Fight for the sake of Allah those that fight against you, but do not attack them first...kill them wherever you find them...idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme."

I think these pertinent quotes pretty much cover what those ridiculous posters tried to claim does not in any way appear in the Koran. Geez.

#72 ariana

Hmm, I always vaccum out any cookies daily, and I checked to see if it made a difference on voting.

I don't accept cookies for 99% of sites. They never put a cookie on my 'puter. They know they sent you a cookie. They never sent one to me. See the difference?

It figures that they would cheat, all the while discussing the evils of our electoral system and how flawed it is. What a pile of turds they are.

Exactomento..

76 PostalWorker

For people so smart, they sure are dumb.

54-sojourner- Hugh Hewitt advertises salmon-gram that ships salmon from Alaska. It is frozen already and has some kind of ice-pack in the cooler. If you are going by air, that might work. I seem to remember my mother freezing the sticks of butter or margarine,
Might ck out Hugh's site for that outfit and see what they use for the salmon. They are shipping $199.00 worth at a time so they must know. Or kinkos is open and is owned by FedEX. They might know.

I think LGF wins based on the comments section.

What is wrong with these people that they can't seem to figure out how to cheat right?
If they weren't so freakin obvious they might get away with it.

But no, they have to vote a million times an hour, sign up Marry Poppins to vote, and word process doc from the 70s.

Idiots! I love LGF! Thanks Charles!

Voletti,

Yes, it seems apparent that this vote is being influenced by the situation where there is one major liberal blog and several conservative blogs to spilt the vote. So what’s the alternative to seeing daily kos get the top blog award? An online convention to select our candidate?
:-D

I think someone's running a script for LGF now. The votes seem to be pouring in even faster. No point. The election's no more valid than the Ukraine's at this point.

Where's Jimmy Carter whne you need him?!

OT - I need help to understand what the outrage is all about.

Navy Probes New Iraq Prisoner Photos

to clarify I meant the comments of the people voting for best blog.
sorry

Actually you don't have to cheat to see if you can. If you see the results vice another ballot, than you would be able to vote again. Doesn't mean you HAVE to vote again if your honest.

Don't cheat on this poll folks. It only makes LGF look bad. Let the KOSsacks o shiite have their fun.

#87 Village Idiot's Apprentice

If you see the results vice another ballot, than you would be able to vote again.

Call me a dumbass, I really didn't think of that!

Did Hosting Matters just take a dump or was it my end?

OT - How the FBI set up AIPAC.

#88 PostalWorker - Don't cheat on this poll folks. It only makes LGF look bad. Let the KOSsacks o shiite have their fun.

I agree. The KOS idiots only discredit themselves by cheating.

Did Hosting Matters just take a dump or was it my end?

The site went unresponsive for a number of minutes. No idea why.

#92 rtheyserius

The site went unresponsive for a number of minutes. No idea why.

The poll was down too. I think it was Hosting Matters.

82% downloaded!

#87 Village Idiot's Apprentice
Actually it doesn't work, I have to vote to be able to see the results. It won't let me see any other way.

#92 rtheyserius

The site went unresponsive for a number of minutes.

I really need a twelve step LGF addiction program... :)

#95 reaganite

you dont have the "view results" link right under the vote list? wierd.

#11 Ann

Give me a mo'. It's dinner here EST.

Also, I posted earlier last month on LGF, asking for a reference to the surahs written on the woman's body. I NEED a qur'anic reference to determine the source of this. My Umdat al-Salik is standing by. Zulubaby, have you yours handy?

Evariste (or any other Arabic-speaker), are you out there?

#97 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

you dont have the "view results" link right under the vote list? wierd.

I do but it just sends me back to the vote page.

From tha FAQ page of the Best Weblog voting poll:

"Q: What about cheating?

A: We've done what we can to secure things while erring toward maximum participation. Were we to lock things down tight as a drum there would be only two scenarios, neither of them optimal for participation. First we could have required registration (via TypeKey) to vote. The drawback is that most casual visitors have no idea what TypeKey is, nor would they be particularly interested in registering. The other alternative was to lock down voting by IP address. The downside there is anyone being a corporate firewall or NAT device would have a hard time voting. AOL users access the Internet via a handful of proxy servers, and in this scenario we would allow one vote per proxy server (say 20 total votes) from all of the millions of AOL members. The first 20 AOL voters would get to vote and the rest of AOL's user base would be locked out. The same holds true for most corporate networks.

Neither of those were enticing prospects, so we did what we could with custom code and the available technology in Apache and PHP. The security is not failsafe, but spotting cheaters is pretty easy in the logs. Logs are examined and sections of cheating are identified and those overvotes are removed from the totals. The technical details are boring, but it proved effective last year so we've stuck with it.

On the first evening of the competition IP address 207.178.11.74 was caught cheating. The address was banned from accessing this site again. In the Best Overall Blog category InstaPundit has 160 votes removed and in the Best New Blog, The Diplomad had 161 votes removed all from that address. Future banning and adjustments may not be announced."

LGF'rs, play it cool, be honest, and don't hesitate to bring the cheating of this dupe at KOS to the attention of the weblog awards people. It will be interesting to see how the numbers add up tomorrow...

Postal,

I agree. Lets not imitate those we criticize.
However, I don't believe anyone here was contemplating dishonest actions, merely questioning if vote-stuffing was a possibility.

At any rate, the vote would have more significance if a way existed to eliminate any re-voting irregardless of the present 24 hour "allowable" rule.

#11 Ann

Section m10.12 of the Umdat deals with "Dealing with a Rebellious Wife", and includes direction on beating her. s. m10.12(4)(c).

But there is nothing about praying in this section.

Leave it with me.

#11 #102:

Refering to this? I put it in my earlier post:

"Men have authority over women because Allah has made the one superior over the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because Allah has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. Then, if they obey you, take no further action against them."

OT - I need help to understand what the outrage is all about.

Navy Probes New Iraq Prisoner Photos

Navy seals, who normally work on the "I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you" top secret operations, just decide to start taking snapshots? I don't think so. THe one photo of the gun to the prisoners head looks like a "take a snap of his face so we can check if he's a big fish in al-quda" picture, taken at night in the middle of an mission.

I miswrote. If you see the results, you can not vote again. It even said on the botton "you have already voted today". If you see another ballot you can vote. I think thats what I mean.

Plus, everyone crashed about 10 minutes ago. Couldn't get
Powerline
LGF
Whizbang
INDC
Instapundit

Than everyone came back
This innernuts stuff takes some learning alright.

#98 Earl
I'm glad that you showed up! Take your time - I just finished dinner, too. -:)
I'm just curious. I get so tired of the denials when they are such blatant lies!

This is hilarious:

French lose a bag with explosives on a plane...

This sounds almost too funny

Iran threatens 'Top Secret' counter-attacks

A newly established Iranian group known as the Organization to Defense Iran's National Interests has threatened to take action against any state that attacks Iran's nuclear facilities.

The group stated Iran's national defense should be increased and should include "maintaining national solidarity behind the leader of the Islamic Revolution Ayatollah Khamenei to safeguard Iran's national interests" and "launching aggressive-defensive attacks against enemy's most vital interests in case of being attacked."

The group also stated Iran should employ "assistance from the unseen world" as a defense tactic.

But it added it would not offer any details, noting that "although this tactic would cost the enemy severe unexpected losses beyond doubt, and bring about miraculous blessings for our nation, since it is classified as 'Top Secret' in our defense doctrine, we cannot offer any further details about it."

#11 #102

From Saudi TV, video of instructions on how to properly beat your wife, complete with mullah holding very useful canes and rods for beating, demonstrating how to swat your spouse while spouting many important words on the forms of corporal punishment Islam dictates for wayward women.

Must see TV at:

[Link: memri.org...]

Scroll halfway down and click on the guy holding the stick.

#104 piglet

Thanks for the input. I saw nothing there that implies any wrongdoing. What is it about war that the MSM doesn't understand? Are the SEALS supposed to sit and have tea and crumpets with the ones they capture?

#110 satan sidekick

WTF? I don't see anything bad here. SO they caught a cross dresser jihadi. Big freakin' deal. They took pictures, also big deal.

I recall another war when uncooperative prisoners tended to jump out of slicks over the SOuth China Sea rahter than give up info. Heh heh.

#106 Ann

All references to the Umdat al-Salik:

s. o4.9

"The indemnity for the death or injury of a woman is one-half the indemnity paid for a man.

s. o9.10

"It is not permissable (A: in jihad) to kill women or children unless they are fighting against the Muslims" [NOTE: As we in Canada all know now from elMasry's comments, this includes every Israeli woman over the age of 18.]

Gotta go, dinner's ready. I'll check basck later. This is a very important issue- suggests that the beating of women is somehow equivalent to prayer?

#111 postal worker

I'm with you on this. But the media is getting its panties in a bunch over it and comparing it to Abu Graib. It is a non-issue. The Blame America crowd strikes again.

#110 Satan Sidekick

Are the SEALS supposed to sit and have tea and crumpets with the ones they capture?

If the SEALs allowed their detainees to shoot them with their own guns the MSM would be wondering if the SEALs gave the jihadis safe weapons to use for their own execution.

suppose LLLs decided to pack the poll for LGF as to disqualify LGF? Since there's no way to really stop cheating, it would be a good way to knock LGF out of the running.

Of course if a Democrat SEAL killed a civilian:

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

Gerhard Klann, a more experienced soldier who was under Mr Kerry's command at the time, remembers events differently.

He said Mr Kerry helped him kill an old man and woman and three children at the first hut, and that the unit then rounded up and shot the women and children of Thanh Phong to prevent them raising the alarm.

The Army Field Manual explicitly forbids killing prisoners "on grounds of self-preservation", but many people who served in Vietnam said the unwritten rules of the conflict made it clear that such actions were acceptable.

Bob Kerry of course.

#107 trigger girlie

Looks like Inspector Clouseau was on that case. LOL

#108 Norwegian Kaffir

The group also stated Iran should employ "assistance from the unseen world" as a defense tactic.

Chilling. "The unseen world" is a reference to germs, I think. I don't know if that idea has already been proposed, but I believe that is the implication.

Hi all,

I haven`t had time to read all of the comments today but I made a search and didn`t find this link so I thought I`d post it here:

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

#31 Aisha

Somewhere on LGF today, I commented on the futility of a non-muslim speaking to a muslim. The non-muslim might better chat away to a wall or other inanimate object- there is no possibility to engaging in coherent dialogue with a mohammedan. There is no common cultural reference point.

#119 Ice Viking

What a bunch of losers.

OT...
How the hell is Daily screw them in the lead for best blog. They had Almost no votes untill today! Me thinks i smell a poll tweek going on.

Ann,

Wife beating and killing was common in Arabic culture before Mohammed. To modern people the Qur'an's rules are barbaric regarding its rules on inheritance, wife beating, divorce, adultery and sexual relationships with slaves. However, the Qur'an AT THE TIME OF IT WAS CREATED actually reformed many harsher existing laws. Also, when compared to other cultures of the same time period, the laws were less harsh to women. Certainly wife beating and killing was allowed by many other civilizations. For instance, check out the laws on wife beating or selling within Great Britain in the late 1700s. Keep READING-->

However, there is a HUGE difference between western law and Islamic law regarding the treatment of MODERN women. While Western laws have been reformed and Islamic law has increased its harsher stance towards women to the point beyond horror.

Agh! The download basically stopped at 82%

One of those posts on the blogawards sites, is a primitive script.

Check out Iron Fist's posts on that site :D)

#121 satan sidekick

Indeed.

a sample a 'loonacy' and 'fuzzy' thinking:

Date: 12/3/04 3:59 p.m.
Subject: Submission

The truth is that the world, its faith traditions, and the people of the world have undergone serious hurt and are in need of healing. Christian terrorism, Buddhist terrorism, Islamic terrorism, Sikh terrorism, Jewish terrorism, Hindu terrorism, and all other "religious terrorism" is occurring around the world. The problem with calling it "religious" terrorism, however, is that religion has little to do with the motivation behind the acts of violence and destruction. Nationalistic, political, social, and economic reasons provide the motivation to effect social change with violence, while religion is a common factor among groups seeking to effect policy or paradigms.

this is an example of one of the milder critiques of the the movie 'Submission" and this individuals assessment of why the movie should be removed...

a clear example of a mind capable of thinking but sorely lacking facts to feed the logical process while merrily skipping down the lane of delusional intellectual perfidy...

could someone wiser and more 'google' proficient than I provide links to examples of incidents occurring in the last 50 years of the following:

Christian terrorism, Buddhist terrorism, Islamic terrorism, Sikh terrorism, Jewish terrorism, Hindu terrorism

I found very few fitting this closing qualifier:

while religion is a common factor among groups seeking to effect policy or paradigms

with the exception of the Religion of Submission

The version they had was taped from Dutch tv. I assume it's just a rights issue...

122 monkey

How dare you accuse anyone of Kossing a poll for Kos!

Only neocons and rethuglicans would ever cheat during a vote.

/LLL mode off

I'd like to be the first to congratulate Charles, and everyone who writes to this blog. I am sure LGF will be announced winner of the 2004 Weblog Awards Best Overall Blog.

Clearly, the voting became rigged earlier today and the winner will be the one who was in the lead prior to the cheating attack. And that's LGF.

The cheating attack will be exposed with a simple timeline chart of voting activity. Other, more sophisticated analyses will be forthcoming, I'm sure. In a way, this is good. Kos' LLLs will be shown to be cheating. Think of the results now as a sort of exit poll.

#120 Earl
You do know that Aisha is a froll right?

#129 Luigi

One wonders how much "cheating" Kos-like people conducted on Nov 2nd. They don't seem to have any problems "cheating"

They make actual beheading videos while screaming Allahu Akbar! at the top of their lungs, but Submission is offensive to their delicate sensibilities? What a crock of...

#126 dustyroadguy

Searched on Google - nothing comes up for

Christian terrorism, Buddhist terrorism, Sikh terrorism, Jewish terrorism, Hindu terrorism

Must be top-secret terrorism - only known to people from the RoP.

Islam is a very weak religion if it has to be defended by murder against any criticism.

Don't know how to do the cut and paste thingy from one site to another, but reading Kos's thread on the voting is scary. these nit wits are telling each other how many votes they have jacked up with some script, and not caring who knows about it.

Fools

You guys should see the comments at KOS regarding the cheating. It's really quite absurd.

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

#112 Earl

This is a very important issue- suggests that the beating of women is somehow equivalent to prayer?

Thanks Earl! Sorry for the delay - 'puter is getting sicker by the minute - I was fighting it!
Have a good dinner!

#135, #136

Notice how they're proud of their achievement? Bunch of nitwits with the mentality of a 2-year old.

#138

I'm speechless

Postal worker and corpsman mom LMAO!
They actually posted they had run scripts and stuffed the vote by thousands?
Hands down winner of the Darwin Award goes to the Kos dim bulbs.

And yet,

Doesn't their behavior ruin the fun for everyone? We were enjoying the race and now it’s compromised. This could have been their intention.

Ah, but they don't want a polling victory from a "right wing" awards site.

Makes one wonder why they went to the effort to stuff the vote? A liberal can't stand to lose even if they don't want to win? I know a 2-year-old like that.

Since we seem to be redefining words these days...

terrorist= activist
Arafat=peacekeeper
Bush=Hitler
illeagal militants=freedom fighters

Religion of Peace?

Peace=beheading, kidnapping, women-beating, child molestation, child mutilation, the list goes annan and annan and annan...

ooops! Sorry, annan=righteous leader full of integrity.

The kos-people consider themselves "centrists" ROFLMAO

They are also puzzled over the word "moonbat." They consider it our little loveword for them. LMAO

If you don't know what it means - it means you are a moonbat.

Ariana

No, the Darwin Awards are quite specific:

Rules: So how are the Darwin Awards actually determined?

Nominees significantly improve the gene pool by eliminating themselves from the human race in an obviously stupid way. They are self-selected examples of the dangers inherent in a lack of common sense, and all human races, cultures, and socioeconomic groups are eligible to compete. Actual winners must meet the following criteria:

Reproduction
Out of the gene pool: dead or sterile.
Excellence
Astounding misapplication of judgment.
Self-Selection
Cause one's own demise.
Maturity
Capable of sound judgment.
Veracity
The event must be true.

I love how Kos posted the site, obviously so he could try and win

I know we have the numbers. Please don't let those guys sweep the category -- let's win this thing and get some increased exposure, traffic and ad revenue for Kos.

and his slobbering hordes either start cheating to win it, or say vote for the other guys to lose on purpose.

With "friends" like that, who needs enemas

#136 Corpsman Mon
LOL! You know, normally I avoid KOS since everything they post there is absurd. But these really are hysterically funny!

I know we have the numbers. Please don't let those guys sweep the category -- let's win this thing and get some increased exposure, traffic and ad revenue for Kos.

I know we have the numbers. The Exit Polls tell us so.

So all of the AOL users in a given locality get only one vote combined? Someone didn't think this through.

I'd say somebody didn't think before hitting "POST THIS COMMENT".

If some mid-level liberal blog were hosting this contest, Kos, Atrios, and TPM would be winning instead of LGF, Instapundit, and The Corner.

Yeah, and if a frog had wings...

Maybe it's a good thing, maybe innocent visitors will get a taste of what modern day "conservatism" is all about.

Let's hope so. Then more innocent people will learn that the Left aren't actually tolerant, decent, enlightened (or even smart) people.

On the other hand, it must drive them nuts to see DKos in the top 5, so what the heck, lets vote.

Yeah, I stay up nights worrying about how popular Kos is getting...

#134 Steve Miller

Wow, I am listening to your greatest hits.

About wife beating in Islam and the Koran, read this:

[Link: www.faithfreedom.org...]

Beat your wives or “separate from them”?

The Agreed-upon Translations of Verse 4.34 :

1. Yusuf Ali:

"...As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all)."

2. Pickthal:

"...As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great."

3. Shakir:

"...and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

#146 Mick

I like this one...

We're cheating BETTER.

Yeah? Well good for you. Now go home and take your ball with you. We don't want to play with your kind. Neener neener neener. Can someone pass those people a drooling bib? It's getting messy over there.

[Link: www.darwinawards.com...]

Note to Mac users: There is an MPEG2 version available via bittorrent (see for instance suprnova.org). QuickTime won't play MPEG2 videos without a $20 add-on, and VLC didn't play the audio, but MPlayer worked fine.

I now know more about Islam than I do about my own religion. But...and I know the Bibleist's out there will take me to task, doesn't the Bible have references on how to handle a bad slave, a wicked wife, ect? Eye for an eye?

Am putting up Protective Internet Shield ---

#104

SEALs were assigned to nab the big fish, war criminals. What we see in the photos are the guys who ordered or carried out the executions of thousands.

Bubbles

[Link: answering-islam.org.uk...]

Abrogation is the reason why Christians, unlike muslims, no longer run around poking people in the eye (unless they are in vaudeville).

152 bubble...

none reference beating...
if you really want references I can provide or you can look for yourself...

#156 ploome

Yup - that's the only outrage I can come up with. People who are too stupid to live.

I've voted one at home and once at work. That is ok, because I read LGF at home and work.

OT

Newsweek's house Muslim apologist says US' policy re: Iran nukes should be: do what France says.

Fareed, who I used to kind of trust (he seemed reasonable right after 9-11 and even supported US action in Afghanistan), has slowly become more and more obvious an apologist for the Muslims.

The US should fully cooperate with Europe, because together an effective economic blockade could be threatened, and the Iranians fear economic sanction more than they desire nuclear weapons.

Um,

1) Right now, the world needs Iranian oil more than Iran needs Peugot imports from France

2) Related to number 1, does anybody seriously think France would enforce an economic boycott on Iran that would threaten the interests of TOTAL-Elf Aquitaine and Schlumberger?

Fareed's prescription would mean world oil gets a little more expensive, some shady Marc Rich type middlemen would make handsome profits trading "embargoed" Iranian oil, different shady middlemen would make profits smuggling items targetted for sanctions into Iran, the average Iranian would experience a decline in the quality of living, the US would be more isolated than ever if it ever did attempt military action, and Iran would be unmolested developing and weaponizing nuclear warheads. Of course, France and the IAEA may claim to be satisfied with Iran's cooperation, continue status quo, while Iran proceeds full spped.

This worries me. I'm not sure that Iran is stupid enough, despite what they say, to engage Israel in a nuclear strike/counterstrike.

But they can achieve a possible level of "plausible deniability" if they were to give weapons to their surrogates, Hezb'Allah, and even more deniability if they slipped weapons to al Qaeda, a Sunni terror group that obviously shares most of Iran's enemies.

But if Iran either tested a nuclear weapon, or were perhaps more clever and let the word out into the intelligence world that they have missilized nuclear weapon, all the while pretending to play along and avoid the strongest sanctions even while being ever more overt in supporting terrorists in Iraq and 'Phallustine'. Of course, Iran isn't a traditional friend of the Saudis (and it is almost hard to blame the House of Saud from trying to obtain nuclear weapons as a counter to Iran) and I'm sure the Grand Ayatollah would love to add "Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques of Islam" to his resume', let alone controlling the Saudi oilfields.

How would the US respond to an Iranian invasion of Saudi Arabia, when the possibility (maybe even certainty if Iran conducted a decapitation strike with nukes against the seats of the House of Saud) of nuclear attack on US troops could happen.

BTW, if Saudi Arabia did feel the need to acquire nuclear weapons from Pakistan, how long would it take for something really unpleasant to develop involving nuclear powers Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, and at their margins, nuclear India and Israel.

Of course, the more Islamic regimes with nuclear weapons, the greater the probability that a nuclear terrorist device does detonate in Los Angeles, London, New York or Tel Aviv.

#156 ploome hineni

the outrage is some stupid person took pictures

I looked at the pictures. Nothing stupid about them. It's the second guessing after the fact that is stupid.

Once I watched a Green Beret A Team pull a sniper out of a building. If pictures were taken they would have shown much of the same as this "new scandal". The thing is war is a dirty business.

Nothing I saw in the pictures is any "scandal".

156 ploome

is it just me? Those photos don't bother me a bit. I don't see anything wrong at all. This doesn't look even UNroutine, let alone like torture. What am I missing?

I'm sure Markos will make sure the especially stupid posts there (regarding scripts for stuffing the online ballot box) will shortly disappear down the memory hole.

This is an example of pablic dribble if I've ever seen it.

---
It is ironic in a much more telling way that we in the United States know so little about how much we owe...in terms of language, in terms of philosophy and science, in terms of history and culture...to the Arab world. How even simple words that are a part of our everyday lives like: sofa, coffee and magazine come to us from the Arabic: s'uffah...qahwah...mahka:zin
---

They are Sofa King We Todd Did

Corpsman- sad thing is, all those contributions were ONE THOUSAND YEARS AGO!

Bush to Sharon: "It's 'Bend-Over-and-Grab-Your-Ankles' time!"

"I assured President Musharraf that there is an opportunity at hand to work toward the development of a Palestinian state and peace in the Middle East," Bush said. "I told him this will be a priority of my administration. The goal is two states living side by side."

Outside the White House, Musharraf, who said he came to the White House to congratulate Bush on his re-election, praised the U.S. president's commitment to establishing a Palestinian state.

"I think the president himself said that; that this is the core issue," Musharraf said.

"The core (of) fighting terrorism is resolution of the Palestinian dispute," he said. "I'm very glad to say that President Bush is absolutely concerned and he thinks that it's a priority with him -- to resolve the Palestinian dispute and create a Palestinian state."

Jeez, Parvez, I know it's probably just lip service on both sides of that conversation, but when you say dumb things like that, I start to feel sorry that Al Q hasn't succeeded in blowing you to pieces yet.

OT, but I'm sure everyone will be impressed with this.
Fathers of Saudi militants appear on television to condemn terror

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) - Saudi national television aired interviews Saturday with fathers of militants condemning their own sons for launching terrorist attacks as part of a national public relations campaign to undermine support for militants.

In a program called A Pause with the Parents shown on state television, emotional accounts were narrated by the fathers of five militants as part of the Saudi royal family's campaign against militants who have carried out several attacks against westerners inside the kingdom and abroad. ...

{More Gloating at Kos, and proof they wanted to sabotage the election :}

“It isn't the vote that counts, but who counts the vote. ;-)”

“Damn - we've been found out “
and after we tried so hard to keep it a secret - who told:)”

{Look out , its another case of people projecting their bad behavior onto everyone else or hey if we claim everyone does it too that makes it ok. They have posted accusations against LGF: }

LOL! That changes EVERYHTING! I mean really! I call coffee- coffee because of the Arabs? Oh, my- what a contribution! If we called it "water filtered through beans" I would still drink a pot everday!

By the way- we call it coffee because the Spanish called it cafe'

Funny joke on Comedy Central just now:

Would a middle easterner mail Anthrax? No! That's not how he'd do it. Would he wrap it around his chest and run toward someone? Yes!

OT - History Channel just started something about Easy Company - 101st Airborne paratroopers in WWII. The vets are talking about their experiences. Interesting so far.

#163

No kidding. Look at all the everyday things they make such good use of that other cultures have contributed...TNT, nylon backpacks, jumbo jets...the list is endless.

#159 reaganite

I looked at the pictures. Nothing stupid about them. It's the second guessing after the fact that is stupid.

Still waiting for the "outrage"(obligatory al-reuter's tag) for Nick Berg's beheader's. And waiting for the "outrage" for perps of victims 2,3,4,5,6,670 of the Islamofacists in Iraq. F**K the MSM.

#160 eevil

No it's not just you. The pictures only bother MSM and other hand wringers.

I posted the link because I found the story to be ridiculous. Why doesn't the MSM spend more time on the Oil for No Food scandal? Kofi and Koko and the other thieves deserve their ridicule - not a bunch of SEALs doing a fantastic job!

{the end of the post was cut off re accusations against LGF}
continued Kos Quotes-

“heh heh, go us. And I'm sure Little Green Footballs isn't playing really fair either.”
“LGF is cheating too: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...] And they're still losing! Haha”

{Someone posted on Kos and called them down}
Quotes-
"They can disqualify a few thousand Daily Kos votes, claiming that they were generated by scripts or are otherwise fraudulent. well, they'd be right. “
“Were cheating - look at Snappy's post. I think it's great, anytime we can make them look stupid it makes my day.”

{ and this idiotic comment made me choke}
”He's a fucking unreconstructed, white Confederate...”
“F {edited out} Glenn Reynolds"

{ who knew? GR is an “unreconstructed Confederate” LOL}

#169 adie

OT - History Channel just started something about Easy Company - 101st Airborne paratroopers in WWII. The vets are talking about their experiences. Interesting so far.

I was coming back from a trip a few weeks ago. I went to stuff my face at the airport. When I met back up with my teams they were talking to an old couple. The couple got up to catch their flight about 30 seconds after I sat down. When they left I asked "what's up?" The kids (yes kids, I'm twice their age) said "he was some officer in the 507th PIR during WWII". I almost fell out of my chair. If I had gotten up 30 minutes earlier and eaten I could have talked to this man.

Speaking of Darwin Awards:

Living on Zionist Time

Heh. Seems like it should be "Dying..."

I ♥ work accidents.

#171 jrdroll

Still waiting for the "outrage"(obligatory al-reuter's tag) for Nick Berg's beheader's. And waiting for the "outrage" for perps of victims 2,3,4,5,6,670 of the Islamofacists in Iraq. F**K the MSM.

When hell freezes over...

OT

from 85 satan sidekick link

the media missing no opportunity to slam:

The U.S. military has launched a criminal investigation into photographs that appear to show Navy SEALs in Iraq sitting on hooded and handcuffed detainees, and photos of what appear to be bloodied prisoners, one with a gun to his head.

Some of the photos have date stamps suggesting they were taken in May 2003, which could make them the earliest evidence of possible abuse of prisoners in Iraq. The far more brutal practices photographed in Abu Ghraib prison occurred months later.

An Associated Press reporter found more than 40 of the pictures among hundreds in an album posted on a commercial photo-sharing Web site by a woman who said her husband brought them from Iraq after his tour of duty. It is unclear who took the pictures, which the Navy said it was investigating after the AP furnished copies to get comment for this story.

lesson:

If your fwrench troops, and you murder unarmed civilians from armored vehicles, helicopters, and reinforced positions of cover-- GOOD
If American fascist storm troopers Troops in a War Zone twist an arm, parade, shout, place panties on head (rather than remove said head)-- BAD

#173 ariana

Even worse, he's white. How dare he! Rotten bastard.

#175 Powderfinger

LMAO

172 ss

EXACTLY! Amen!

I'm listening to a show on KPFA where people are calling in to say that the 2004 vote was faked.
Oh and Bush knew.
Did you know Republicans hate democracy?

Sigh...

#173

This is my favorite...

We'll probably end up winning, and they'll be the ones throwing accusations of fraud and voting irregularities.
And they'll probably initiate a recount and claim dkos only won because we somehow cheated.

Ok...so if they win and we say they cheated, that makes us somehow misinformed and paranoid even though they DID cheat and we have PROOF of their cheating. I'm getting a headache.

#175 Powderfinger

No wonder they blamed their deaths on Israel. Damn that Zionist time!

#181

How does one fake 61 million+ votes? Rove is good but not THAT good. If any votes were "faked," I'd look at the "Kos" side. Cheating appears to be second nature to those people.

Simply more denial and a symptom of PEST.

#182 Corpsman mom

Kos learned their information methods from Hamas and other nice organizations they passively support.

164 MM

Pervie has to make noises like that or his own people/Army, who are more militantly Islamic then he is, would overthrow/kill him.

Remember, if Pakistan falls, you wind up with the Taleban and al Qaeda in power, except unlike Afghanistan they'd have nuclear weapons.

That means al Qaeda wouldn't have to wait for Iran to get nukes.

BTW, isn't it obvious that the Phallustinian situation is the root of all terrorism? When the Paki supported "activists" in India kill the families of Indian soldiers, or attack the Indian parliament, clearly, they are just expressing their outrage over the mistreatement of the Phalli by the Zionist Entity.

#184

Good point, but you know they will somehow make it our fault.

they can't "make" it our fault.

The fault lies with those who did it, no matter what language is used.

#184 satan sidekick
Somehow they're claiming that Ohio is all faked, and the person being interviewed right now is saying that there were more voting irregularities in Florida this time than last time.

One phrase I'm hearing over and over is "we all know what happened"... And someone used that same phrase about 9/11. Apparently "we all know that Bush was involved in 9/11 in order to start a war in Iraq [for oil no doubt]."

They all know. Sigh.

Oh and I'm hearing over and over that if only we could get a revote like the Ukraine..

#126 Dustyroadguy

"could someone wiser and more 'google' proficient than I provide links to examples of incidents occurring in the last 50 years of the following:

Christian terrorism, Buddhist terrorism, Islamic terrorism, Sikh terrorism, Jewish terrorism, Hindu terrorism"

of this list, I suspect only Islamic terrorism will hit (unless you score hits on jihadist and terrorist propaganda sites extolling the horrors of the "atrocities" they claim the jews and Isreal commits.

As for Christian terrorism, more like that inflicted on Christains daily. Google search Voice of the Martyrs... the stories will change your life.

#130 Reaganite

froll? que?

#172

If the Seals wanted to hurt those prisoners they'd have tortured and offed them and no pictures would be brought home about it. You don't get to be a Seal and be stupid.

I agree that this is a gross misinterpretaion of the photos by lilly livered reporters that are like yappy dogs. One starts yapping and they all chime in till one of them has to mark their territory.

#190 SkippyMoment

froll? que?

Froll=Fake Troll.

Aisha is a guy named Dave from down under.

#189 Joshua

What proof do they have? Didn't they have a gazillion poll watchers and lawyers all over FL and OH?

All PEST sufferers - is PEST fatal?

#192 reaganite

Hence the braided armpit hairs!

Aisha is a well-known froll that infests LGF.

She's the female equivalent of nodroG, except that she has a just a smitch of charm.

A funny thing is that when we HAVE a democratic president, KPFA hates him (Clinton) as a corrupt representative of the rich and corporations. Hell they were saying that there was no difference between Bush and Gore last time.

But they are pacifists, so the War on Terror has turned them into Democrats. And they're pulling the Democratic party down to its doom.

PostalWorker,

You've nailed the problem, and some of those organizations may have representatives teaching their tactics in our universities.

I believe Orson Scott Card said recently,
people no longer care whether if someone says anything which is correct, but what organizations they belong to... (paraphrased)

#193 satan sidekick

They don' need no steenkin' proof! They just know and we're idiots for not knowing too.

#193 satan sidekick

What proof do they have?

LOL, I missed that part. Anyway, I'm sure their standards of proof have sunk a tad low.

Going home now. YYYEEE HAWWW! I'm FREEE! woo hoo!

#200 Postal

G'night

#192 fake troll, okay, so is that a double negative, meaning they really aren't a troll?

#194 PostalWorker

LoL... oh the theatre of the mind... I invisioned Johnny Depp's chin hairs (the ones from Pirates of the Carribean) dangling out of down under Dave's muscle shirt... eeewww.

#195 steve miller

She's the female equivalent of nodroG

What?! Aisha is a laugh riot sometimes. What can you expect from a nine year old wife of Mohammed?

#186 Ed

I know that.

Still, it's aggravating. It's like I have to lie and say I beat my wife just so I'll fit in with a bunch of wifebeaters down at the pool hall (or mosque).

It's not a victimless exercise these two are engaged in. Everytime W goes along with statements like that, another 2 million people who count (american voters), who don't bother to realize it's window dressing, absorb it as an international 'truth'.

As for pakistan's nukes, they are a problem. Hopefully, we have a total inventory, and people in place to snap them up at a moment's notice.

I can't believe we would leave those nukes unsecured, given that Musharaf can't get life insurance, and for good reason . . .

#202 SkippyMoment

so is that a double negative, meaning they really aren't a troll?

Wait till you meet RWC's alter ego...

Have a good night Postalworker!

Joshua

Oh and I'm hearing over and over that if only we could get a revote like the Ukraine..

Perfect - Now boarding all moonbats for a one-way trip to Kiev.

#195 steve miller

She's the female equivalent of nodroG, except that she has a just a smitch of charm.

Aisha is no nodroG. Aisha is the Child bride of the Prophet. We are honored to have her joining us to share her insight.

#205 RWC? still new here, 'splaination please

It appears that the sudden and unexplained population explosion in dkos votes can only be coming from a couple of obvious sources: Sheik Chic and Ketchup Flavored Sheik Chic. Accidents will happen!

#208 SkippyMoment
Right Wing Conspirator!

Me too, who are you talking about?

#193 satan sidekick
OK, FreeSpeach Radio News is on.

The mention a few minor glitches. One precinct that counted an extra 3000 votes for Bush. But, uhm, I'd point out that gliches that were caught did not contribute to fraud.

There was a single sentence saying that it's beleived that Kerry votes were counted as Bush votes.

A sarcastic orator (this is news?) is going on saying 1/4 of a million votes in Ohio "we're not counted"

93000 spoiled votes (mostely punched cards again)

He's spinning the fact that punched card machines lose more vote than optical readers - and that punched card machines are older and in poorer neighborhoods as:

"Statistics prove that they threw away black votes but not white votes." He DOESN'T explain the punched card/optical reader thing.

He doesn't say what the other 157,000 "not counted" votes are

Ah now they're talking about Israel "raiding" innocent people who are not threats to Israel... Now she's saying that this is better than helecopter attacks that kill innocent people.

Attacking the Wall as destroying the peace process. Now she's saying that extrajudicial attacks on terrorists (word not used) are against international law, and that innocent children are killed.

She's objective!

#207 Powderfinger

While I'm no expert on Islam or the Quran, I do know that the closer something is to the truth, the bigger the lie.

As much as I respect our President, he was wrong when he said Muslims worship the same god that Christains or Jews do' their god is not God. I can understand why he said it, but it doesn't make it right.

No disrespect to any Mormon lizaroids out there, but the god they worship is not the same god either. If you really get to the heart of what Joseph Smith preached, he advocates that Lucifer is God's other son, and he took over for Jesus because (according to JSmith) Jesus failed.

/religions of the world 101

#213 SkippyMoment

As much as I respect our President, he was wrong when he said Muslims worship the same god that Christains or Jews do' their god is not God. I can understand why he said it, but it doesn't make it right.

Umm, where did he say that? ROP is not the same...

#210 ooohhh... blonde moment. okay, I've seen his/her posts.

so people instigate discussions by posing as 'alter egos' to get the party moving? nice work if you can get it.

215 SkippyMoment

Charles discourages that with the registration system.

Before registration it was a constant game. We also got a lot more real lefties and jihadis and muslims in general when we didn't require registration.. Well I've said this before - it was much more work for Charles because he had to clean up behind tons of trolls, and that was before LGF was this popular, but I miss it.

test

#212 Joshua

Do you have a headache yet?

Moonbats thrive on conspiracies and dreamed up injustices. They are troubled, concerned, vexed, doubtful... They never have a good day.

#214 "Umm, where did he say that? ROP is not the same..."

A few months back, our Pres was questioned about Islam, in particular about the specifics of did they worship the same god (or something to that effect). He said yes, he believed they did. I thing wnd.com carried the story. Several well known evangelists and known Christain ministers commented about it later. I'll see if I can dig out the article. I'll post the link.

#215 SkippyMoment

Better yet if they're also funny. David Aisha is both funny and educational. ;-)

Skippy,
I used to buy into that idea until I read the Qur'an and its teachings ended that delusion. The words ":retribution against unbelievers are repeated throughout the text. It's a frightening book. The very basis of it denies the right of Christians or Jews to exist.

Mohammed stole parts of the Jewish Torah and Christian Bible and then twisted their meaning claiming he had the correct version and Jews and Christians had misunderstood or lied about God's words. He then used that claim to back up his declaration of war against any competitive versions (Jews or Christians) of ancient Old Testament stories.

#216 Joshua

"Before registration it was a constant game. We also got a lot more real lefties and jihadis and muslims in general when we didn't require registration.. Well I've said this before - it was much more work for Charles because he had to clean up behind tons of trolls, and that was before LGF was this popular, but I miss it."

Okay, so when someone is a froll, then it is not a double negative, and they really believe the crap they post? Or are these just people who are seriously in need of a life? Maybe we could take up a collection and buy them one at WalMart.

Totally OT

You guys aren't going to believe this. My 15 yr old son is having a friend spend the night. My daughters, 4 & 5, are taking a bath. I just made the boys some Pizza rolls for dinner- More fun for them than what we had) me and the girls had a "conventional" dinner.(pork chops, pasta, etc)

Anyway- they boys are playing video games and i felt like I needed a little help. I needed to get the girls in bed, but was int he middle of cleaning their room. I aksed my son if he wanted to sweep and vacuum the girls room- or wash the girls' hair. He looked at his friend- they talked a second, then they told me to go sit down- they would do both!

I tried to argue that I didn't need them to do both- but they literally took the broom from me while the other one took me by the arm and lead me back to my seat, right here.

WOW! I am sooo blessed- just had to share!

PROUD MAMA!

Well, at least some of the abortion doctor assasins have claimed to be motivated by Christian ideology, so I suppose that could be described as Christian terrorism.

A Dr. Baruch Goldstein killed about a dozen Muslims praying in a mosque in Israel over a decade ago, that could be called Jewish terrorism, I suppose, along with the poorly conceived plot by a couple of screwballs to possibly kill an Arab-American congressman.

I'm not sure if you could count the angry reactions of Buddhists, Hindus and Christians after Muslim atrocities as B/H/C terrorism.

People will try to claim that Timothy McVeigh, because he was raised Christian, was a Christian terrorist, but he was clearly an anti-government terrorist with no clear religious motivation (and there are some, that I'm not sure I agree with, who claim involvement of foreign governments in OKC).

So, if one really tries, one can find a couple of incidents of Christian/Jewish/Hindu terrorism, over a decade long span.

Of course, Muslims commit terrorism on a much more regular basis.

#219 SkippyMoment

He said yes, he believed they did.

IMHO, the Civilized world has to try right now to bring these people along...
Please give President Bush a break. If this tactic fails, then at least it will be known that the Civilized world tried...

#219 Reaganite

Found it...

[Link: www.wnd.com...]

#213

Skippy moment:

"No disrespect to any Mormon lizaroids out there, but the god they worship is not the same god either. If you really get to the heart of what Joseph Smith preached, he advocates that Lucifer is God's other son, and he took over for Jesus because (according to JSmith) Jesus failed."

Garnier: First of all I'm not a Mormon. The idea that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers is not unique to Mormonism and has an ancient pedigree in gnostic Christian thought (but it's all mythology to me, anyhow).

Can you cite a reference for your assertion that Joseph Smith taught that "Lucifer took over from Jesus because Jesus failed".

I believe you are very much mistaken.

#218 satan sidekick

I wish I could find the bloom-county where they're go past vegetarianism to feeling guilty for cooking vegetables "boiled carrots never have a good day"

223 SkippyMoment

Absolutely not. You should take up a collection and buy me a life.

#222 ploome hineni
There's nothing wrong with the pictures.

Um, I have previously heard the claim that Mormons believe that Lucifer was Jesus' evil brother.

I thought I heard that the gist of the Mormon faith was that Jesus, after leaving Israel, visited the indigenous Americans, who were also converted, although eventually evil tribes wiped out the good tribes, leaving only some sacred text carved on stones, for Smith to later find.

I believe I have also heard that the Mormon's have a Buddhist like belief that living a good life will allow one to ascent to a Jesus-like Godly state.

And I do know that Mormon's believe one can be baptised as a proxy for another, even if the other is already dead (which is why the world's best geneology libraries are Mormon, because they like to get all their ancestors baptised).

Most of this I have read in Protestant publications, which obviously have a anti-LDS bias. I have also heard from many of these sources that Mormonism isn't "true" Christianity.

Probably need someone like 'Mormon Doc' to answer this correctly.

But I have never heard any suggestion that Mormons worship Satan, or consider Jesus a failure.

#227 SkippyMoment

"It's much greater than that, of course. And I believe we worship the same god," reported the London Telegraph.

Not that I doubt you, but I do doubt the London Telegraph...

#225 Ed

The difference between them is this: McVeigh and others were motivated by perverted understandings of their religion. Islamic terrorists require no distorted understanding of islam-only a perverted view of islam yields its "peaceful" image.

223 SkippyMoment
By the way, speaking of not having a life, the desperate bunny is hillarious (song may not be work-safe).

#221 ariana

" I used to buy into that idea until I read the Qur'an and its teachings ended that delusion. The words ":retribution against unbelievers are repeated throughout the text. It's a frightening book. The very basis of it denies the right of Christians or Jews to exist.

Mohammed stole parts of the Jewish Torah and Christian Bible and then twisted their meaning claiming he had the correct version and Jews and Christians had misunderstood or lied about God's words. He then used that claim to back up his declaration of war against any competitive versions (Jews or Christians) of ancient Old Testament stories. "

I agree, hence my earlier post that the closer something is to the truth, the bigger the lie. A friend of mine is working on his second Masters (the first was a Master of Divinity from Western Seminary, the second is a Master of Theology from Dallas Seminary) and he really opened my eyes to some of the stuff in the Quran. Also, one of the Pastors over at Calvary Los Gatos taught a 3 week study on Islam, and what the Jihists are doing is an extreem but literal interpretation of the teachings. This is scary stuff.

#225 Ed

Many people claim to be Christain, even attend church regularly but they are anything but. I believe it is in Paul's teaching (hum, or did Jesus say it himself... I'll look it up, anyway) the teaching says it is because of you (we who claim to be Christains), that unbelievers are stumbled and don't come to know the truth. The idiot Klansmen used to claim moral superiority and 'godly mission' when they were torturing, maming, and killing to promote their doctrine of white supremicy (sp?) and justification of their evil actions. Someone might want to lable that Christain terrorism, but there was nothing Christain about that either.

#226 Ann

I do give our Pres a break on this point. He is in a difficult positon, and he could hardly answer the question any other way. He has a very difficult job to do, and stepping lightly through the 'religion' mind field is one of the most difficult. Sorry I if I created the impression that I was busting his chops, that was not my intention.

232 Ed

Speaking of Mormon Doc- I don't remember seeing him around since Thanksgiving. Has anyone else seen him around?

#224 eevil

Good for you! Fear not - they will come to their senses by morning. Mine always do. ;)

#230 Joshua

Oh, poor Joshua... you need a new life? Did you visit Santa at the Mall and sit on his lap and ask him for a new life? Maybe He'll stuff one in your Christmas stocking... unless you've been a bad bunny, then you may just get a lump of coal and a subscription to the men's mag of your choice.

#234 pookleblinky

McVeigh and others were motivated by perverted understandings of their religion

From Time magazine:

TIME: Are you religious?

MCVEIGH: I was raised Catholic. I was confirmed Catholic (received the sacrament of confirmation). Through my military years, I sort of lost touch with the religion. I never really picked it up, however I do maintain core beliefs.
[Link: www.time.com...]

So what was McVeigh's religion?

Oh, re Christian or Jewish terrorists:

Nobody has named any churches, synagogues, streets or playgrounds after Timothy McVeigh, Baruch Goldstein or the abortion clinic bombers last time I checked.

Orthodox Jewish groups don't have conferences to celebrate Goldstein ala "The Magnificent 19" conference in London, and their has been no rush of devout Christians naming their children "Timothy McVeigh".

(McVeigh is an especially poor example, as I stated above, he was anti-government, not Christian).

Skippy:

I've been doing some searching and I can't find where the President actually said that. The news story was published on that website on November 24, which was the day before Thanksgiving. The press conference in question was held on November 12 in the East Room of the White House and not in Great Britain. The transcript of the conference can be found at here. I have searched it for any reference to God and have found none.

If someone else can find it, I will stand corrected. Otherwise, I believe that the Evangelicals and the rest were mistaken about what the President said.

239 SkippyMoment

Hmm. Here in San Francisco guys trying to climb into your lap is probably a common problem for Mall Santas.

Yeah, I could use a life. Do they come with instructions?

#228 Garnier

I tried to find the exact quote, but the best I can get you is this...

Google "Joseph Smith and the Temple of Doom", it is a VHS tape in the Pagan Invasion series done by Chuck Smith (founder of Calvary Chapel. He goes through the teachings of the Mormon faith, how it compares with the teachings in the bible, and differs in the tenants of the two faiths.

Submission Part 1 was removed at the request of Theo Van Gogh’s production company; no pressure from advocacy groups this time.

Whatever the reason, I think it is important to make this avilable. This may be the short version, but I'm glad I have it to offer:
Submission.asf.asx

Totally OT, but I have a question:

I'm wanting to ship some athletes foot ointment/spray to the troops with their Christmas boxes (they requested it). Now, in the interest of saving space and not potentially blowing up a cargo plane (aren't those cans explosive?) do you think it would be a problem if they guys had to share tubes of ointment? Is there a cross infection situation here? Do men go eeewww at the thought of having to share that kind of stuff?

I'm in the dark here folks, somebody help please!

#233 Reaganite

Fox News also played the interview clip of the President answering the question. Again, I can understand why he answered the question the way he did. I don't think Bill Graham himself could have answered that question, at least not in a way that would not have caused more violence and an outcry from around the world.

Apparently it's not the first time Bush has made that statement.

This is from October: President Says He Believes Muslims and Christians Pray to Same God

This is from November: Evangelical outrage over Bush's 'same God' remark

Can't say I'm outraged over it but he'll get a fatwa if he doesn't watch out!

Sarah D:

Risking the obvious here...

Cross infection? They are already infected or they wouldn't be using the athlete's foot ointment.

;-Þ

#250 Bernadette

I know, stupid right? It just worries me. Like maybe one is almost cured and another with a bad case uses it - then the first one flares up again.

Hell, I don't know. Maybe I'll send some Hershey's kisses instead!

246 Sarah D.

Do men go eeewww at the thought of having to share that kind of stuff?

As a man who's used that sort of stuff I can answer, "I have no *** idea."

Anyway need is greater than ewww.

Of course I would perfer a personal tube, a mint on my pillow, room service and a massuse.

How many stars are barracks (think 5 star hotel)?

#246 Sarah D.
Tubes of ointment cream are easier to ship, easier to carry, and I don't think most people would mind sharing since you don't need to apply the tube directly to the skin, just squeeze out the appropriate amount of medication. I've heard tell the troops like those handi-wipe sheets as well.

Do men go eeewww at the thought of having to share that kind of stuff?

Um no especially if you haven't showered in three weeks and the latrine is piling high.

#243 Joshua

"Hmm. Here in San Francisco guys trying to climb into your lap is probably a common problem for Mall Santas.

Yeah, I could use a life. Do they come with instructions? "

Hum, San Fran... Guy on Santa's lap... yep, you'd get more than you bargined for with that one. Maybe you can find a politically incorrect female Santa's lap. Not likely in SF, you'd have too much competion from other (ahem) females trying to do the same thing.

Okay, so how do we get you a new life? Have you tried yard sales? A slightly used life for bargin basement prices! Naw, that won't work.

I know, mail order life! And they come with instruction for assembly. You can read and follow the directions right?

251 Sarah D:

Not stupid!

I was giving you a friendly hard time. Just send it and they can figure it out when they get it. They will be happy with whatever you send.

But if it's chocolate, maybe M and M's instead of kisses. They melt in your mouth not in your shipping box.

#252 Joshua (not a hamster) Scholar

Actually, no barracks for this groups. Tents in the sand. I'm sending rat traps too.

Thanks for the info!

#249 ploome hineni

WHY would a soldier take ANY pictures of prisoners bleeding or being restrained anyway>?

I have dozens. Why wouldn't we take pictures?

to post them on the internet?

The wife did, she obviously was proud of what her husband did.

Taking ANY pictures is STUPID and from what I have read taking pictures of prisoners is against military regulations

Not even close. Taking pictures to exploit the captives is against the UCMJ.

Really, want to know how many pictures I have from my career? Most of it was pre-digital days...

#82

What is wrong with these people that they can't seem to figure out how to cheat right?

Cheat right?

#253 mickthemick

Got the wipes too, and lots of soap, and deodorant!

#256 Bernadette

I know :-) But I do feel kinda stupid being totally in the dark on this one. I don't think I've ever even had a conversation with a man about the status of his "itch".

eh gads...

BTW - M & M's and mini candy bars. It they melt they do it in the wrapper!

257 Sarah D.

So you're sending mints?

Anyway, bye all.

Who was it said that moonbats have no fun. It's REALLY WHINEY hiphop on KPFA now.

Don't they know their whining detracts from MY whining? I'm the only guy allowed to whine.

anyway I'll check ebay.

244
Skippy

Google "Joseph Smith and the Temple of Doom", it is a VHS tape in the Pagan Invasion series done by Chuck Smith (founder of Calvary Chapel. He goes through the teachings of the Mormon faith, how it compares with the teachings in the bible, and differs in the tenants of the two faiths.

I don't even know who this Chuck Smith is, but somehow I suspect trusting him for an evaluation of the Mormon religion is like trusting the 'Chick' comic books as an authoratative source on the Catholic faith.

Is it just me or does anyone wonder why anyone is paid to design this stuff and why anyone listens to them?

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

and on that note,
goodnight

#246 Sarah D.

I shipped tubes of cortisone and antifungal stuff in sealed plastic baggies just incase there was some sort of rupture to the tubes.

As far as I know, my marine troop got the supplies I've sent them without problems.

I place most of the stuff I ship over to the guys in ziploc bags to protect them from any problems with the elements - rain, that might damage the boxes or contents.

Just a reminder, the Post Office says to try to ship packages by Dec 6th if you want the there by Christmas.

#264 SkippyMoment

Anything potentially leakable or squishable I put in baggies. I tried to get the stuff out today, but the damned PO closed at 12:30. Who knew? Best I can do now is Monday morning.

:-)

Cool, you sent tubes too. Ok, I feel better! Thanks!

263 ariana

It looks like strings of slime as a baby alien hatches from it's cocoon to me.

If your boyfriend was REALLY turned on by Alien, then you've got a winner.

Making a statement is a bit different than being asked about a statement and agreeing. I understand that many would see no difference in the outcome but I'm reminded too often of reporters asking a question like "Do you think this school would be better with twice the budget?" and then the headlines read "Mayor says school budget should be doubled."

I wish he'd simply not answered. Something like "I'm no theologian."

#139 reaganite

I agree, yes, she is a froll.

That said, as with our old pal 'Reza' on JW and here, Aisha regurgitates whatever bilge she has heard at the mosque on Friday night. Hence, my concern that she represents the parroted response of the islamist, c. 2004.

Sarah D and Bernadette

Don't send M&M's or Skittles, they get those in their MREs. It is okay to send chocolates now, because they won't melt from the heat (it's much cooler now).

If you want a list of the stuff the guys need, check out [Link: www.operationac.org...] or [Link: www.adoptaplatoon.org,...] they have lists of stuff to send or not to send.

These guys are so blown away by any effort, that they'll be blessed with whatever you send.

Oh, and they love beef jerky (I have this first hand from a guy I work with who was/is a Marine reservist that was there to take Baghdad).

Happy shopping and packing!
Go spoil that/those guys... they deserve it!

#268 Earl
Dude, Aisha is a guy named Dave from down under.

#236 SkippyMoment

He is in a difficult positon, and he could hardly answer the question any other way. He has a very difficult job to do, and stepping lightly through the 'religion' mind field is one of the most difficult.

We all need patience. And wisdom. I believe that our leaders have both.
So do the majority of this Republic.

Earl, Aisha is actually a guy whose name is David and he sometimes posts as Aisha for sport. He thinks it's funny. So do a couple other people. It's not to be taken seriously, just scroll on by ... :-)

#262 Ed

"I don't even know who this Chuck Smith is, but somehow I suspect trusting him for an evaluation of the Mormon religion is like trusting the 'Chick' comic books as an authoratative source on the Catholic faith."

I agree with you point about trusting sources, but in this case, I know Chuck well, and Calvary Chapel's teachings. They are a good meat and potatoes bible teaching church - nothing added, or taken away.

Chuck has done a series on all the 'so called' Christain religions - mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christain Scientist; as well as other religions of the world - Islam, Budhism, Hiduism; and while he doesn't know everything, his is one voice that I do trust for truth. Of course if I didn't know Chuck, I'd be skeptical as well.

Chuck Missler is another excellent source for information on Islam. He was teaching about the jihadists back in the mid 90's - see "Sword of Allah" a tape series he did. It will curl your toes.

By the by, if anyone is interested, Billy Graham is on right now, I think he's on NBC, or was that CBS.

SkippyMoment: #228 Garnier

"I tried to find the exact quote, but the best I can get you is this...

Google "Joseph Smith and the Temple of Doom", it is a VHS tape in the Pagan Invasion series done by Chuck Smith (founder of Calvary Chapel. He goes through the teachings of the Mormon faith, how it compares with the teachings in the bible, and differs in the tenants of the two faiths"

Thanks for the reply. I can tell you with absolute certainty that that quote about Lucifer replacing Jesus is fabricated, and I am no friend of the Mormon Church. There is plenty of excellent scholarly research out there that is not at all flattering about many aspects of Mormonism so there is no need, in my opinion, to make up stuff to make it look even worse.

Chuck Smith is regarded as a sensationalist and a charlatan among serious scholars of Mormonism for his dishonest reporting about what goes on inside Mormon temples.

Lucifer has always been cast as the deceiver and the enemy of God and Jesus Christ in the Mormon temple rituals even from their inception, and anyone who claims otherwise is lying.

I would recommend D. Michael Quinn's series "The Mormon Hierarchy" if you want the real deal.

There is a lot of dirt on the Mormons, but claiming that they knowingly worship Lucifer is not even remotely true as any serious anti-Mormon can tell you.