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-RetweetDhimmitude at the Chicago Tribune

Sun, Dec 26, 2004 at 3:01:13 pm PST

In one of the blindest, most backwardly ignorant articles I have ever read, the Chicago Tribune tells us that black is white, cold is hot, Islam is a religion of peace, and if Muslims are ever violent (doubtful), it’s America’s fault: Of two minds. (Hat tip: Ethel.)

This is one of those articles that is so full of bold assertions completely unsupported by facts or common sense that it’s hard to know where to start.

The Tribune reported the series, which ended this month, to answer some simple questions posed by readers in the wake of Sept. 11: Why are people from faraway lands attacking America and Americans? Why do they happen to be Muslims? Is there something about Islam that promotes violence?

Reporters found little to suggest that Islam encourages violence, despite the impression Westerners might have because of exposure mostly to extremists. In fact, its venerable history suggests that Islam, like most religions, promotes peace and charity.

But the Tribune series also showed how American foreign policy has angered Islamic radicals and moderates alike, from the suburbs of Chicago to the refugee camps of Gaza, from the dusty streets of Pakistan to the winding warren of stalls in Egypt’s colorful bazaars.

Those who take action against America, such as the men who flew the planes into the World Trade Center, are a relatively small band.

But this radical fringe shrewdly capitalizes on the legitimate grievances of many moderate Muslims against American government policies, enabling the militants to extend their influence far beyond their numbers.

There is no attempt here to address the many sections of the Koran that do, in very explicit terms, advocate and promote violence against infidels and apostates. There is no attempt to address the simple fact that Islam’s main prophet, Mohammed, was a warrior, who waged many battles and explicitly ordered the deaths of many men, women, and children. There is no attempt to explain why, if Islam is so inherently peaceful, the highest Muslim clerics in places like Mecca and Medina, and al-Azhar University in Cairo, openly praise suicide bombers and call for jihad against the West.

In fact, there is only one off-the-cuff mention of jihad.

Now today’s student schooled in jihad is tomorrow’s suicide bomber.

Whoa. That’s deep. At least they didn’t say that jihad is a peaceful internal struggle to renounce bad habits, sort of like New Year’s resolutions.

This mind-bogglingly obtuse whitewash piece goes on to claim that it’s America’s “lopsided support for Israel” that enrages the Muslim world enough to fly airplanes into our buildings. Why am I not surprised?

And here’s how they attempt to claim that there’s no incompatibility between democracy and Islam:

There are those who believe that Islam, which rejects the Western notion of separation of church and state, is incompatible with democracy. But democracy and Islam coexist peacefully in Mali. Malians adopted democracy in the 1990s on their own; it was not imposed by an outside power. Turkey, too, calls itself an Islamic democracy, although the government tightly controls religion and clamps down on militancy the minute it surfaces in speeches or prayers.

Now there’s a real showpiece for democracy in Islam: Turkey! A brutal military government that suppresses militant Islam (or at least, used to) whenever it rears its peaceful head.

The question of whether democracy can work alongside Islam is a fair one. And we’re going to get an answer sooner than anyone thought possible, thanks to the toppling of Saddam Hussein. But the Tribune would have us believe there’s no problem at all.

Why is the Chicago Tribune doing their best to hide the facts about Islam? What do they think will be gained by this sort of pig-headed obscurantism? How will Americans ever find the truth, when mainstream media are doing their best to lull us into a sense of false security?

What an absolute snow job. Argh.

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1 satan sidekick  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:06:01pm
There is no attempt to explain why, if Islam is so inherently peaceful, the highest Muslim clerics in places like Mecca and Medina, and al-Azhar University in Cairo, openly praise suicide bombers and call for jihad against the West.

There is also no attempt to explain

1. Why non-Muslims are BANNED from entering Mecca and Medina.

2. Why 22 of the conflicts on earth involve the RoP.

I could go on... but I am sickened.

Another useful idiot!

2 mickthemick  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:06:40pm
In fact, its venerable history suggests that Islam, like most religions, promotes peace and charity.

Sure, like the "peace and charity" Islam promoted during its expansion.

//sarcasm

3 Lady Redhawk  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:07:39pm

This is not journalism. In fact, this article is so outrageous that it borders on sedition.

4 Obi-Wan  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:09:15pm

It's all the fault of the evil Jooos!

/sarc.

5 ibrodsky  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:10:52pm

So, if we just give into the reasonable demand that we let the tolerant and democratic Muslims destroy Israel and kill/enslave her Jewish citizens, then Islam will once again be a shining example of peace and virtue.

When you read about world leaders who tried to appease Hitler and the Nazis, it sounds incredible that people could have been so naive. But then you look around today and see there are many, particularly in the mainstream media, who are anxious to do it again.

6 Andy in Agoura Hills  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:10:53pm

Here's proof that Christians are Dhimmis in the Muslim world of our paleostinian peace-loving friends:


Under Islam, Christians are considered dhimmi, a tolerated but second class who are afforded protection by Islam. Dhimmitude is integral to Islam; it is a "protection pact" that suspends "the [Muslim] conqueror's initial right to kill or enslave [Jews and Christians], provided they submitted themselves to pay tribute."

However, the reality of Christianity under Islam has often been difficult. "Over the centuries, political Islam has not been too kind to the native Christian communities living under its rule. Anecdotes of tolerance aside, the systematic treatment of Christians...is abusive and discriminatory by any standard...Under Islam, the targeted dhimmi community and each individual in it are made to live in a state of perpetual humiliation in the eyes of the ruling community." As described by a Christian Lebanese president, Bashir Gemayil: "a Christian...is not a full citizen and cannot exercise political rights in any of the countries which were once conquered byIslam."

Palestinian Christians have suffered as dhimmis for centuries. An English traveler in the Holy Land in 1816, for example, remarked that Christians were not permitted to ride on horseback without express permission from the Muslim Pasha.

THE BELEAGUERED CHRISTIANS OF THE PALESTINIAN-CONTROLLED AREAS

7 mickthemick  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:11:10pm
Moderates at the mosque don't necessarily agree with the hard-line policies of the sheik. But the moderates temper the volume and tone of their criticism because of sympathy for the cause that the accused man supports: the plight of the Palestinians.

When the Islamic (especially the Arab) world ends its pathological obsession with Israel and the "Palestinians," then it will be able to solve its own problems. Until then there are too many Muslims who are too content to wash their hands of their own societies' troubles by blaming "Zionists and crusaders," instead of doing some soul-searching and figuring out how and why they need to clean house locally.

8 Horace Jeffery Hodges  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:11:21pm

Thanks for the link to this article. Coming to terms with Islam surely means coming to terms with its darker aspects. A balanced view of Islam requires that we not whitewash its history and ignore the reality of Islamic imperialism. We should not make Islam out to be better or worse than it is.

Much of the mainstrean media is hopelessly inadequate to the task.

Jeffery Hodges

9 theheat  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:11:22pm
But democracy and Islam coexist peacefully in Mali.

Oh, WTFU, already. Islam can't even co-exist peacefully with the friggin' Buddhists.

'Nuf said.

10 Bullshark  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:16:13pm

Mali, isn't this the last place to outlaw slavery? Like in 1984. Except that there are still slaves there and in Saudi. See in the Koran you can still own slaves.

11 gymnast  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:16:24pm

The MSM is addicted and has its tongue up Mohammeds ass and can't get enough. The left is also addicted and anyone who has known an addict is aware of their lack of rational abilities. Eventually an addict makes a rational choice or dies. Addicts are more easily avoided than the MSM.

12 mickthemick  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:19:01pm
The U.S. should adopt policies that make Muslims as comfortable here as Christians.

Umm, those already exist. Please see the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. Muslims will not be comfortable in the United States until non-Muslims are dead or dhimmis.

13 addison  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:22:44pm

If Islamists were anti-Communist and anti-Socialist (making them de facto anti-Europe) but pro-American, pro-capitalist, you could bet your entire worth the true history and face of militant Islam would be in the press.

That they hate America (those stupid, flag-waving, jingoistic, pro-Bush, bucolic yokels, them) is what seems to largely animate the whitewash provided by the media.

14 vrwc007  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:23:23pm

I saw this article today an am ashamed to be a Chicago Tribune subscriber. The Tribune has become very anti-Israel and this is just the latest example.

15 ibrodsky  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:24:24pm

The problem, according to the article, is that we don't send enough aid to Pakistan to help make their public schools an attractive alternative to jihad-preaching madrassas.

Now I get it: mass murder is just a natural byproduct of underfunded public schools.

No doubt, were we to extend welfare benefits to the world's 1.2 billion Muslims it would ensure the victory of moderates.

It's chimp/Hitler/Bush tax cuts that have the naturally reasonable, tolerant, and enlightened Muslims all worked up. Of course flying airplanes into buildings is outrageous, but you can kinda see why they did it, can't you?

/sarcasm off

16 rightasrain  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:24:32pm

There is absolutely ZERO in Islam that supports peaceful co-existence with non-Muslims (unless it's something akin to slavery where non-Muslims are allowed to live as dhimmis who must pay tribute in order to be allowed to live.)

As mickthemick says, the only comfort Muslims will find in America (ultimately) is when reaching the goal of making Islam the only accepted religion on the entire planet (including in the U.S.)

What's the most frightening thing to me is that our leftwing fights Christianity tooth and nail while embracing the acceptance of Islam in our society. The mention of G-d is NOT supposed to be allowed in our schools, but many liberals WANT Muslims to go to our schools to meet our children in order to foster acceptance of Muslims.

Our left is playing right into the hands of our enemies, especially within our own borders.

17 Duane  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:24:32pm

And if that reporter gets mugged I'll be sure to blame America's policies toward gangs for the ass beating he receives.

18 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:24:47pm
Reporters found little to suggest that Islam encourages violence, despite the impression Westerners might have because of exposure mostly to extremists. In fact, its venerable history suggests that Islam, like most religions, promotes peace and charity.


Did these reporters do a Jason Blair on this story and type this up after a night of research smoking weed and listening to "Blues for Allah" on the stereo?

19 Poitiers-Lepanto  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:24:50pm

Does anyone know who owns the Chicago Tribune ?

The invaders like to play MONOPOLY and I wouldn't be astonished to come to know that this antiAmerican column has been paid by Saudi money...

(Don't look at me like that, with the recent news about the investments of the PA in bowling alleys in NY etc. I deem that everything is possible...).

20 mickthemick  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:25:58pm
America pumps hundreds of millions of dollars in aid into Pakistan, but most of it goes to the military. Precious little is left for the public schools, which, by almost any measure, are a disgrace.

American schools are a disgrace, why on Earth is Pakistan's educational crisis ours all of a sudden? Pakistan's schools are sh*t because of corruption, not because the U.S. gives too much military aid to the country. For one thing, much of the military aid is soaked up through the endemic graft in the country, which also effects the school system. Which brings me to the other thing, which is you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Pouring money in Pakistani schools won't help. Their schools are corrupt, run via nepotism and bribes. Pakistan's educational system is like a sponge, and the more money you pour into it, the more it will absorp. And nothing will improve.

21 cochise4c2  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:26:29pm

With the MSM it's all about hating America. Muslims hate America, so they'll get a good write up by any self-hating journalist that wants to get an article printed in a prominent way.

And since there are Muslims that hate America, and these journalists hate America, then anything the haters say is obviously true. The enemy of my enemy is my friend...

22 ibrodsky  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:28:02pm

The Plight of the Palestinians:

Not being able to kill all of the Jewish children in Israel.

23 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:30:13pm

Re: #18

Hunter's note in Box of Rain says "This lyric is a requiem for King Faisal of Saudi Arabia, a progressive and democratically inclined ruler [and, incidentally, a fan of the Grateful Dead] whose assassination in 1975 shocked us personally."
24 Baillie  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:31:03pm

They speak of peace, while covert enmity
Under the smile of safety wounds the world...

25 [Engineer]  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:32:20pm
Reporters found little to suggest that Islam encourages violence, despite the impression Westerners might have because of exposure mostly to extremists. In fact, its venerable history suggests that Islam, like most religions, promotes peace and charity.

Because they know nothing about Islam. Within a Muslim country,Dar al-Islam, there in normally peace. But outside, in the Dar al-harb, the House of War, peace NEVER exist. It is a perpetual state of jihad, of holy war unless there is a truce (hudna) because the Muslims are too weak to attack or you have paid them off.

26 ddd  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:34:03pm

Israel is why Muslims kill Buddhist in Thailand, Christian in Philippine, Hindu in India, various religions in Russia. Movie maker in Holland and Sunni and shia kill each others The paper of Bob Novack is at work.

27 ibrodsky  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:34:22pm

Slightly OT:

The other day I came across a picture of the graduation ceremony at a medical school in Damascus, Syria. What shocked me, but didn't surprise me, was that the students were giving the stiff-arm Nazi salute.

I'm sure the medical school would claim it has nothing to do with Nazism. But just the fact that they didn't feel the need to change the salute is very revealing.

28 Ann  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:34:55pm
Why do they happen to be Muslims?

The use of "happen to be" instead of "are" says it all.

29 ferris  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:36:20pm

Anyone who was able to read that whole article is a better person than I am. I could only get so far before my blood pressure went through the roof.

I wonder if a search of the Trib's archives from the late 30's into the 40's would return a bunch of fluff pieces defending the good intentions of the Nazis (Hey, they make the trains run on time!)?

For the benefit of the Trib allow me to use small words. We are at war with Islam. Islam, as presently practiced, is incombatable with western civilization. This war will continue regardless of your ability to stick your collective heads up your collective a**es.

30 [Engineer]  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:39:00pm

27 ibrodsky

The other day I came across a picture of the graduation ceremony at a medical school in Damascus, Syria. What shocked me, but didn't surprise me, was that the students were giving the stiff-arm Nazi salute.

Could you provide a link? I know some people that see to see that.

31 Q  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:39:41pm
The U.S. should adopt policies that make Muslims as comfortable here as Christians

are in dar-al-islam. I'm all for that.

32 Poitiers-Lepanto  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:42:14pm

#25 Engineer

Thank you for calling my attention to this:

its venerable history

Now the problem is that I have only 12 hours and a half before Monday morning, when I am supposed to be performing some kind of rational activity... instead of LAUGHING MY BELLY OFF.

/And a little thought to the hundreds of millions of humans reduced in slavery and killed in the course of that venerable history...and the cultures wiped off the planet, and the monuments destroyed.

Just think about the Mammeluks (sp. ?) artillery that used the Sphinx as a target for training...

33 former demo  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:42:49pm

Slightly off topic:

See the lead story at [Link: www.powerlineblog.com...] They did a great job ripping apart Thomas Friedman's NYT column.

34 Q  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:43:46pm
But just the fact that they didn't feel the need to change the salute is very revealing.

Ba'athism is the Arab brand of nazism -- they don't have to change anything, as they are simply a branch on the nazi tree.

35 SpiritOf1683  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:44:55pm

OMFG... If 1,400 years of murder, genocide, ethnic cleansing, wanton destruction of entire cities and civilizations in the name of Allah isn't enough evidence to suggest that Islam promotes violence, it begs the question "What do the hacks of the Chicago Tribune have for brains?" - probably something you feed the rose bushes with, I'll guess.

36 Poitiers-Lepanto  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:46:10pm

#29 Ferris

This war will continue regardless

Period.

But it will take a lot of time and blood before our sweet LLL souls get this.

37 reader  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:48:03pm

Chicagoland probably has the largest Muslim population for any metropolitan area in the U.S., at over 500,000 (50+ mosques), with a huge proportion also African-American. I wouldn't compare it to Los Angeles, as I think they are still counting Iranians, whom probably less than 10% are still practicing Muslims.

If you want to see how Muslims treat non-Muslims in their own backyard, take a look at these sites:
International Religious Freedom Report

www.persecution.org

I'm starting to think PC is a synonym for FLATLAND. Not sure anyone can live there, but everyday journalists keep proving me wrong.

38 Colt  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:48:39pm
America pumps hundreds of millions of dollars in aid into Pakistan, but most of it goes to the military. Precious little is left for the public schools, which, by almost any measure, are a disgrace.

Great plan: fund the madrassas.

39 Q  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:49:38pm
"What do the hacks of the Chicago Tribune have for brains?" - probably something you feed the rose bushes with, I'll guess.

Either that, or, as P.-L. suggested, the Saudi blood money.

40 ibrodsky  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:49:55pm

#30 engineer

Send email to

tom_sawyers_dad@yahoo.com

and I'll email the picture back.

41 Ben F  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:51:22pm

What I want to know is, what are "the legitimate grievances of many moderate Muslims against American government policies"?

Was it the Americans' humanitarian efforts in Somalia and Kosovo?

Was it the overthrow of the al Qaeda-hosting Taliban?

Is it the sacrifices of lives and treasure being made in Iraq in order to give Iraqis a fighting chance of creating the first non-autocratic Arab state?

Is it America's support for the creation of a democratic Arab Palestinian state?

Or is it just America's support for Israel's right of self-defense?

42 QueenEsther  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:51:55pm

#17 duane

And if that reporter gets mugged ...

By the way, James O'Shea is the no mere "reporter." He's the Tribune's Managing Editor. The Jewish community in Chicago has taken him to task numerous times on his history of indifference and outright disdain displayed in his paper's biased reporting against Israel. His response is to deny, stonewall and accuse pro-Israel readers of being paranoid. What a POS!

43 Poitiers-Lepanto  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:53:16pm

#37 Reader

I'm starting to think PC is a synonym for FLATLAND

Excellent. Thank you very much.

44 MJ  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:54:40pm

Basically, when thinking about why the Tribune does anything, it boils down to this:

The Chicago Tribune hates Jews more than it loves anything in the world.

The history of the Chicago Tribune has been one of unmitigated hatred for anything Jewish. The only Jews that have ever appeared in a positive light in the Chicago Tribune are those willing to attack other Jews or Israel.

The Tribune owns those other Jew-hating newspapers- the Boston Globe and the LA Times.

It is time for everyone to come to the realization that the Chicago Tribune is the most antisemitic paper in the USA.

45 Colt  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:55:00pm
But this radical fringe shrewdly capitalizes on the legitimate grievances of many moderate Muslims against American government policies, enabling the militants to extend their influence far beyond their numbers.

So 'moderate Muslims' agree with the jihadis' motives, but claim to oppose their methods. Mkay.

46 RebelPOW  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:56:37pm

People...

It's the Chicago Tribune.

You were maybe expecting Fair and Balenced?

Get real. Those of us in Chicago know better.

47 MJ  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:57:48pm

To Repeat:
We (the USA) may be at war with Militant Islam; the Chicago Trbune is at war against "the Jews".

48 bigel[deleted]  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:59:11pm
49 MJ  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 1:59:38pm

More on the Tribune can be found here:
[Link: www.tribunewatch.com...]

50 Poitiers-Lepanto  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:00:36pm

#44 MJ

The Tribune owns those other Jew-hating newspapers- the Boston Globe and the LA Times.

WOW the plot thickens.

And I repeat, WHO owns the Tribune ?
A family ? A Company ?...

51 MJ  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:01:33pm

Oh, I made a mistake- the Boston Globe is owned by the New York Times...not the Tribune.

52 Flatlander by the Lake  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:03:23pm

The Chicago Libune continues to disgrace itself and us fine people who live in Chicago, Illinois.

I wonder if any of the writers that contributed to this article left their comfy yuppy condos in trendy Chicago neighborhoods. Doubtful.

Like the rest of the M$M, they WANT SO BADLY for our friends the Muslims to be as peaceful as were are. The libs continue to project our fine qualities and values on to others. They want so badly for the real world to match the world they see through their rose-colored glasses. The Libune has once again demonstrated it's bias and willful blindness.

They disgrace our fine city. I stopped buying/reading the Libune right around the same time I found out about LGF, about two weeks before the Rathergate story broke.

I remember glancing at the front page on the newstand last week. U.S. military getting killed was top-of-the-fold newsworthy. But the Afghan president's inaguration was buried inside the paper.

I pity the poor fools at the Libune. They're fossils. Losing their readership with no clue as to why.

53 justamomof4  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:03:40pm

#19 - Poitiers-Lepanto

re:" with the recent news about the investments of the PA in bowling alleys in NY etc. I deem that everything is possible...)."

I'm in agreement with you, this foreign investment thing is getting a bit creepy lately.

While preparing for the holiday, I refocused to the t.v. where the Fox financial advisors were discussing investments. I didn't catch the advisors name (a linebacker type) that casually noted that foreign investers have been snapping up ownership in water companies .

I took notice of the "foreign invester" and "water company" - as this combination is unsettling to me.

Today, I noticed on another thread at lgf -

First Islamic Bank Acquires UK Based Water Company

Does this type of news set off alarms for anyone else?

54 MJ  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:05:15pm

The Chicago Tribune supported the Jew-hater Tariq Ramadan.

See Daniel Pipes:
[Link: www.danielpipes.org...]

55 TheRealAuntMyrtle  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:06:29pm

"radical fringe"?

cair says that there are 1 and a half Billion muslims in the world. Let's say 1% are radical, that gives 150,000 of radical muslims that are bent upon destroying democracy and all the United States stands for.

The truth is that if one of our own "radical fringe" red-neck committed any of the murderous acts of the other side, the other 99% of the NON-radical rednecks would string him up or point him out in a line up.

But we sure wouldn't wink and nod and obfuscate (sp?) the situation like cair does.

Does anyone have verifiable information that doug hooper served time in prison? Or can he prove he never has been arrested?

56 Dave the.....  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:07:49pm

Related to MSM wackyness...

I made the mistake of buying the Minneapolis paper today (to get the ads and sports). They ridiculed FOX News in their editorial page, saying it is definitely not fair and balanced.

But the same editorial page had 7 cartoons today, all 7 bashing Bush or the Bush administration.

57 Poitiers-Lepanto  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:11:57pm

#53 JustaMomof4

Does this type of news set off alarms for anyone else?

We, as Westerners, are just out of our minds...

58 Abu Maven  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:12:37pm

Charles wrote:

There is no attempt to explain why, if Islam is so inherently peaceful, the highest Muslim clerics in places like Mecca and Medina, and al-Azhar University in Cairo, openly praise suicide bombers and call for jihad against the West.

Nor is there any effort to explain why the highest authorities of the ROP have given Bin Laden the go-ahead to US nuclear weapons against the infidels:

And he says bin Laden has even obtained a fatwa, or Islamic decree, justifying a nuclear attack against the United States on religious grounds.

"He secured from a Saudi sheik named Hamid bin Fahd a rather long treatise on the possibility of using nuclear weapons against the Americans. Specifically, nuclear weapons," says Scheuer. "And the treatise found that he was perfectly within his rights to use them. Muslims argue that the United States is responsible for millions of dead Muslims around the world, so reciprocity would mean you could kill millions of Americans."

Fortunately, I have been assured by the Chicago Tribune that it will be a peaceful nuclear detonation in NYC in which the infidels will peacefully be exterminated.

59 Abu Maven  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:14:07pm

Linkage:
[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]

60 [Engineer]  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:15:32pm

#40 ibrodsky

Check your mail

61 Poitiers-Lepanto  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:15:40pm

#55 TheRealAuntMyrtle

Sorry to ruin your Boxing Day, but 1% of 1,500,000,000 muslims gives

15 MILLION jihadists.

Just ONE per cent.

15 MILLIONS equals all the Western Armies together, multiplied by five.

62 obscured by clouds  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:17:58pm

I just finished watching a show called "The Perfect War" on the Discovery Channel. They interviewed some German blowhard who commented "Maybe the Americans will learn once the current ideologues are gone that there are things Europe is better suited for than it (the US) is - like peace keeping and reconstruction!

It's rather ironic that any Bosnian Muslims who were lucky enough to make it to the USA must be rolling their eyeballs in between shudders thinking about the effectiveness of European "peace keepers." Speaking of which...we sure haven't gotten much love from the Islamo community for going to bat for the Bosnians against the Serbs have we? I wonder if that's just another "legitimate grievance against American gov't policy?" Good grief.

63 MJ  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:22:39pm

Here are some of the stories which CAMERA did on the Chicago Tribune's coverage of Israel:

[Link: www.camera.org...]

64 reader  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:23:29pm

CAIR could tell me that 10% of Muslims drove ice cream trucks and I'd still be smelling garbage everytime I thought ice cream.

65 [Engineer]  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:23:49pm

I just sent this email to jo'shea@tribune.com which is the authors address.

In this story you write: “Reporters found little to suggest that Islam encourages violence, despite the impression Westerners might have because of exposure mostly to extremists. In fact, its venerable history suggests that Islam, like most religions, promotes peace and charity.”

You are right and you are wrong. Within a Muslim country, peace normally prevails. This is called Dar al-Islam, the House of Islam. However, outside of a Muslim controlled country is the Dar al-harb, the House of War. There peace never exists, except for periods of hudna or truce.

For a better understanding of what a Muslim means when he talks of peace, I suggest Chapter O – Justice of The Reliance of the Traveller by Nuh Ha Min Keller. The subtitle is A classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law. Page o9.0 – Jihad is where you should start.

By the way, I am not sure how these conflicts are America’s fault:

1. Muslims killing Buddhists in Thailand
2. Muslims killing Christians in the Philippines
3. Muslims killing Hindu in India
4. Muslims killing various religions in Russia
5. The killing in the Sudan.

If you write, be nice since I am sure that he will never see hate-mail.

66 justamomof4  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:25:35pm

#57 - P. L.

We, as Westerners, are just out of our minds...

Learning that Islamic banks can purchase municipal water companies - which in the case I linked to, also "has a number of complementary non-regulated businesses including Aqua Direct which supplies natural spring and mineral water." -

raises the hair on the back of my neck!

Another concern that comes to mind has to do with muslim business practices:

Furthermore, hiring disbelieving men and women is very dangerous for the Muslims, their faith, their behavior and the upbringing of their children. Therefore, such must be prevented in obedience to Allah, the Glorified, and His Messenger (peace be upon him), and to prevent a source of evil and immorality.

From:Ruling about hiring a non-muslim

67 Mike C.  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:25:39pm

OT, but don't think democracy is safe in the US. The latest from DU. I swear, these guys are worse than the Kossacks.

68 SoCalJustice  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:27:03pm

(#45) Colt

So 'moderate Muslims' agree with the jihadis' motives, but claim to oppose their methods. Mkay.

Ditto for Jack O'Shea and the Chicago Tribune.

(Not so) OT

An American Married to Al Qaeda; Woman Says Her Husband Helped Set Up Sleeper Al Qaeda Cell

Dec. 22, 2004 - A California woman reveals to ABC News that she unknowingly married a Muslim extremist who helped set up what authorities say was one of the first al Qaeda sleeper cells out of their Orange County apartment complex.

Saraah Olson says she watched as her then-husband, Hisham Diab, and his group transformed local teen Adam Gadahn into an America-hating fanatic who she says is the masked man who promised in an al Qaeda video message released in Pakistan late October that the "streets of America will run red with blood."

"I was just a stepping stone to a green card," Olson said. "I married a terrorist. I married somebody who did not like America, who didn't like Americans."

Gadahn, who met Olson's former husband at a local mosque, was "fresh meat," she said. "Someone they could control. Not only that, he's very unassuming-looking, he can do a lot of their tasks."

The voice, gestures and rhetoric of the video's "Azzam the American" were all familiar to Olson, especially the phrase "red with blood," which was one of the group's favorite sayings, she said.

And over the course of six years, Olson said, some of Osama bin Laden's top deputies would stay with her and her husband, including blind Sheik Omar Abdel-Rahman, who would later go to prison for life for his role in organizing terrorist plots against the United States.

Olson said she repeatedly tried to notify the FBI of her husband's suspicious activities, but that she was never taken seriously. "I'm in hell," Olson remembers thinking after she recognized Abdel-Rahman in connection with the 1993 World Trade Center bombings. "I have entered the bowels of hell and I'm going to be here forever. And I've only been married seven months. I've got a terrorist in my house."

The FBI said in a statement that counterterrorism is their top priority. "Whenever we receive credible information pertaining to terrorist threats against the United States, the FBI acts immediately to thoroughly pursue all such leads," the statement read.

Federal authorities say the couple's neighbor Khalil Deek, considered a major al Qaeda figure, ran the Orange County sleeper cell operation.

Diab, who obtained a U.S. passport after marrying Olson, left the country suddenly in June 2001. He is now being sought by U.S. authorities and is believed by intelligence officials to be hiding in Pakistan with top al Qaeda leaders.

"I was the wife," Olson now says. "So it looked like a typical guy married to an American girl with the little blond-haired, blue-eyed boy in tow."

69 former demo  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:28:08pm

#56 Dave the ...

The Strib is right up there in terms of worst bias. The editorial board is a complete joke. The Northern Alliance boys regularly call them on the carpet.

Oh, and we had a subscription to the SF Chronicle for years (husband liked the sports writers). Cancelled it after bball season was over. We happen to know the lead editorial guy and he's a verified morlock.

70 Aquatic Cadaver Dog  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:30:31pm
71 MJ  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:31:24pm

Folks,
It's important to understand that the Chicago Trbune published the "results" of it's study into Islam a year nearly a year ago. In other words, nothing, abolutely nothing that Muslims do will alter the Tribune's propaganda effort on behalf of Islam. If Muslims would destroy every single Black Christian in the Sudan...which is their goal...that would not influence anything the Tribune would write about Islam.
Here's a story from tribunewatch which I noted earlier. Check out the date of when this was written.

Yearlong Survey on Islam: Actions, not Scripture, Most Relevant
February 10, 2004 - Billy Chosen, EXIST


The Tribune begins its yearlong analysis of Islam by writing that Islam is a "great religion" that "preaches tolerance, non-violence and respect for human life." Page 1 Sunday. In so doing, the paper misses the point.

In short, whether Islam, or any religion for that matter, is "peaceful" based on scripture is misguided. Frankly, it doesn't matter. As we know, there are peaceful passages and hateful passages in the holy texts of all the major faiths. There is enough ambiguity in scripture that each of us is free to use--or abuse--the texts as we see fit. Such debates are best left for religious scholars.

Of course, what matters is not whether the Koran, Old Testament, or New Testament is "peaceful," but rather the actions of those who follow the different good books. Whether Islam--or any religion--is peaceful based on underlying scripture is irrelevant. Instead, what is hopefully most relevant are actions.

A touchy subject, Islam -- as judged by actions -- has not proved peaceful lately. Right now, almost all the hot spots on the globe involve militant Muslims on one side. Some of the places are old and familiar like Israel and India. Some of the places are becoming familiar like Chechnya and Bali. And some of the places sport names still largely unfamiliar to us, like Mauritania.

Look at the Sudan, which we don't hear much about. In just the past decade, two million Christians have been literally butchered by militant Islamists proclaiming "convert or die." Or look at the Philippines, where in 2002 an Islamic group beheaded two Jehovah's Witnesses and left their heads in bags with the note, "Those who do not believe in Allah will suffer the same fate."

Peel back the political correctness and take an uncomfortable look around the globe--Algeria, Egypt, Turkey, Philippines, Indonesia, Kenya--the list goes on and in each instance militant Islam is the root cause. As for human rights, suffice to say that there are no human rights abuses in much of the Islamic world because there are no human rights to abuse. In Saudi Arabia there are no churches, no Bibles, no Christian artifacts, no non-Muslim worship of any kind.

In Egypt, Christian Copts have been persecuted to the point of near extinction. Women's rights? Forget about the right to vote--in many Muslim countries women lack the right to drive.

We can address these realities or apologize for them. To be clear, it is not suggested that Islam has a monopoly on genocide, as Bosnia reveals. However, the fact that most conflicts on this globe involve militant Islam is no coincidence either.

Whether terrorism strikes New York, Africa, India, Bali, Pakistani churches or downtown Jerusalem, freedom and democracy everywhere are threatened. Finally, if, as is often suggested, militant Islam is an aberration, then why haven't the moderate Muslims carved out the cancer amongst themselves? Any organization -- whether it is the Girl Scouts or a religion -- has a duty to police itself and guard against extremism. If the majority of Islam's peace loving followers believe the radicals are an aberration, then why do they tolerate, if not support, this murderous minority? The majority's silence is deafening and deadly, as the graves of two million Sudanese Christians reveal.

[Link: www.tribunewatch.com...]

72 pookleblinky  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:32:14pm
In fact, its venerable history suggests that Islam, like most religions, promotes peace and charity.

Suggestions imply that someone is being suggested. A millenium and a half of unmitigated rape, genocide, and slavery, must therefore suggest peace to someone. Who?

#61 Poitiers-Lepanto

You can put it in the converse form. What if 1 percent (15 million) of the muslim population was vehemently outraged at the rest of Islam? I don't mean "live quiet and peaceful lives," I mean in-the-street-pissed-off. I have yet to see 15 million muslims rise in denunciation of the Hadith.

73 pdq332  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:32:57pm

The Tribune Sunday editorial pages are really bad. Not a Sunday goes by that they're not giving space to some tyranny loving academic, America hater, or highlighting casualties.

74 Catttt  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:34:16pm

The Tribune is clearly pipe-dreaming. The U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom recently noted that freedom of religion "is not well protected in the Middle East or among countries where Islam is the religion of the state." What about that is not clear?

Mali is NOT an Islamic country. It is a country with a lot of Muslims. There is a huge difference.

Mali's constitution includes freedom of religion, and Mali is a secular, NOT an Islamic, country - there is no state religion. I think we have some guys here in Mali who really believe in democracy. To me, that just shows that Iraq can succeed - as a secular country with a lot of Muslims.

75 Abu Maven  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:35:58pm

65 Engineer

Or how bout:

Muslims killing Christians in Indonesia, Ethiopia, Algeria and Nigeria?

Muslims killing ethnic Han in China?

All the fault of America and the Israeli occ-u-pay-shon.

76 satan sidekick  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:38:01pm

Folks


"This is the most amazing proposition that has ever been brought forward by a non-lawyer and it will, and if it is accurate it could change the whole outcome of the voting process in the United States, and we will take that under consideration ... we, we eagerly embrace your suggestion." Rep. John Conyers (D-MI), Dec. 8th, 2004, Congressional Hearings on Ohio Voting Irregularities.

John Conyers - a sponsor of Hanoi Jane and JFnKerry. Involved in the Vietnam Veterans Againt War movement.

See: Conyers - another traitor

77 former demo  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:40:17pm

#67 Mike C.


Read that link: is this a threat? "Should he"
---
Should he be re-inaugurated on January 20th Bush will once again be securing the greatest prize the American political system has to offer, the presidency, through fraud, deception and illegal activity aided by a willfully ignorant press.
---

78 Terrye  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:41:30pm

yeah yeah yeah... and what did Bali, India, Russia, Indonesia, East Timor, the Phillipines, Spain, Tunisia, and on and on do to the Muslim world?

This will not help Muslims. Until and unless these socalled moderate Muslims feel compelled to stand up to the jihadis these terror acts will continue and as long as they do there will be no peace.

What about the thousands of Pals that the Jordanians killed? What about the fact that a child born to a Pal in Jordan is not a citizen but a child born to an Arab in Israel is?

This hatred of Israel is just an excuse and if there was peace there they would have to find some other excuse, which means there will never be peace until the jihadis are defeated.

79 rayw  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:41:42pm

#67 MikeC

Let the Civil War begin!

80 RightDad  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:43:58pm

You know I am so sick of this palestinian question thing. These are 2.5-4 MM people. They picked the wrong side when the Arabs tried to crush Isreal...tough.
But then the soft side of me says Ok... we carved out land for Isreal land can be carved out for these assholes.
But everytime we carve it out, it just isn't good enough, or we weren't a fair broker, or our policies are too pro- Isreal..I call TOTAL BULLSHIT on the whole palestinian question...Since 1976 we have been brokering some sort of peace plan and most of all while BinLaden..fuckhead..was declaring war on us Clinton was twisting Isreal into knots to broker peace..The Best thing Bush and America ever did was call Arafat "unhelpful" in diplomatic circles that mean"the fucking blood clot in the system."
These Islamic nuts and their governments know one thing, oppresion at home and Jihad abroad. They will only stop when DEFEATED and it must be brutal defeat. Look what Assad of Syria had to do to his put down his own uprising...Bombed, Bulldozed, and salted the earth of the town that sarted the uprising...nothing to see here move along now...

81 [Engineer]  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:44:18pm

#67 Mike C.

OT, but don't think democracy is safe in the US. The latest from DU. I swear, these guys are worse than the Kossacks.

I love it! Those guys are so dumb that they don't know that the electors have already voted on 12/13/04.

Yes, they can object in Congress, but the GOP is not going to vote for Kerry.

82 Q  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:49:14pm

Teryye:

What about the fact that a child born to a Pal in Jordan is not a citizen but a child born to an Arab in Israel is?

You must be thinking about Egypt. Baalestinians are citizens in Jordan. For all intents and purposes, Jordan is the Baalestinian state.

83 Hulegu Khan  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:51:25pm
#55 TheRealAuntMyrtle

Sorry to ruin your Boxing Day, but 1% of 1,500,000,000 muslims gives

15 MILLION jihadists.

Just ONE per cent.

15 MILLIONS equals all the Western Armies together, multiplied by five.

Yes, but only 1/100th the ability of a single division of US Marines alone to kill and destroy, and only 1-millionth of one percent of the ability of a single US Navy boomer to erase an entire muslim country in just 15 minutes.

84 daniel2  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:52:06pm

Actually, the book provides the foundation for the structure, whether in Christianity or Islam. The fact is, is that the Qur'an is a very evil book, advocating killing, denying Jesus died on the cross, painting a Playboy picture of heaven etc. etc.

If you wish to see a
Bible / Qur'an comparison, you may want to try this.

85 Aquatic Cadaver Dog  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:53:03pm

Why isn't more made of the muslim-nazi connetion?

These are interesting pictures

86 PDM  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:54:00pm
For all intents and purposes, Jordan is the Baalestinian state.

For some reason the name Transjordan Palestine comes to mind.

87 yochanan  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:56:57pm

the chicago tribune has a long history of anti-semitism
what they are clearly calling for is the end of support for Israel

last fall they ran a cartoon the "der strumer" could have run.

88 Catttt  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 2:58:26pm

Prophet of Doom - the Web site.

Craig Wynn's books are available free online. I noticed at Amazon that a ton of Muslims have written idiotic one star ratings to drag the book down. Just reading them turned my stomach.

89 Q  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 3:00:58pm
For some reason the name Transjordan Palestine comes to mind.

Yes, that's what I meant. Elon's plan may not be perfect, or even particularly feasible, but it is still the best we've got.

Actually, even more important than actual plan is the national consensus regarding the existential questions. Yeah, right.

90 Iron Fist[deleted]  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 3:01:48pm
91 MJ  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 3:02:55pm

# 87

Here's that antisemitic "cartoon" which yochanan mentioned. We discussed here at lgf a while back:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

92 rokbassist  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 3:07:14pm

Ah, the economic powerhouse of Mali. What do they export?
Sand? Camel dung? Or maybe a slave or two?

93 reader  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 3:09:47pm

Cattt #88,

Write your own review, and be sure to mention lots of other books that support Winn's position. Also throw in some history to fortify it. Nothing beats a good review, and many people can tell a disingenuous one.

94 Hankmeister  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 3:13:29pm

I'd expect this kind of bullshit from the Chicago Sun Times. The idiot(s) who wrote this totally whitewashed crap wouldn't even place in a liar's contest since the misrepresentations of facts are so transparently bad. Once again, it's America's fault and because "moderate" Muslims have "legitimate" complaints about American policy, this virtually justifies "smart" Jihadists to "capitalize" on American foreign policy faux pas by flying jetliners into buildings. Yeah, and that young lady that was found in the alley the other day deserved to be raped and murdered because she's nothing but a two-bit tease who made her attackers take advantage of her because she danced naked on a bar one night. This is the logic to which the radical left have been reduced.

Liberal media whores at the Chicago Tribune or any other partisan lamestream media news institution for that matter can go straight to hell for the anti-American lying bilge they spew. The history of Islam is out there for any honest seeker of truth to read, and having read the Quran myself I can tell you that essentially it is a book which has distilled the war rhetoric of Mohammed in how tribal Arabs can justify killing or dominating Christians and Jews who oppose Islam. All they need is to feel "disrespected" and that justifies every lie and military venture they care to ply.

Surah 5:51 - O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."

Surah 5:59-60 - Say: O followers of the Book (Jews)...whom Allah has cursed and brought His wrath upon, and of whom He made apes and swine."

The Koran defiles and disrespects New Testament teaching about Jesus:
Surah 5:72-73 - Certainly they (Christians) disbelieve who say: "Surely God, He is the Messiah, son of Marium; and the Messiah said: O Children of Israel! serve God, my Lord and your Lord." Surely whoever associates other men with Allah, then Allah has forbidden to him the Garden, and his abode is the hellfire; and there shall be no helpers for the unjust. Certainly they disbelieve who say: "Surely God is the third of the three; and there is no god but the one God." And if they desist not from what they say, a painful chastisement shall befall those among them who disbelieve."

Clearly, the Koran itself teaches that the Muslims' Allah is not the same God of Christians.

Surah 9:29-30 - Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, oiu of those who have been given the Book (Jews), until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of our superiority ad they are in a state of subjection. And the Jews say: "Uzair is the son of Allah"; and the Christians say: "The Messiah is the son of Allah"; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

Some religion of peace. The commands of YHWH in the Old Testament were specific to Israel and were given with respect to a conquest of very debauched and incredibly immoral people who were committing infant sacrifices, temple harlotry, cannibalism, mutilations, etc.

The commands in the Koran were certainly given within the context of a historical event of that region, but they are also open-ended and are often cited by Islamofascists today to justify their murders against "infidels". So-called "moderate" Muslims know this to be true because it's what is being taught in madrassas and mosques throughout the Muslim world. The anti-American rhetoric we hear in the Arab street has long been a part of the secret Muslim catechism taught by radical immams. This has given rise to their practice of preaching peace in English while promoting their militant anti-Jewish and anti-American hatred in Arabic before their own people.

95 Catttt  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 3:16:17pm

93 reader

Good idea. I'm tickled that Mr. Wynn cares so much about this he put his book online for free.

There are several good reviews - I can understand someone genuinely not liking a book, but giving it a one, then saying Mohammed (may his pickle always be dill) (the wise, the merciful, yadayada) will get you for your infidel lies" is not much of a review.

96 MJ  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 3:18:12pm

Hankmeister-
Did you mean to write the following?
"I'd expect this kind of bullshit from the Chicago Sun Times."

97 trigger girlie  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 3:18:30pm

For some reason my mother, who has the same political views i do, used to subscribe to that piece of shit tripe. I used to read it out of curiousity, and all I did was to give myself a high blood pressure and a desire to go out and kick some ass. Chicago Tribune was good good for one thing: wrapping garbage into and throwing it away.

98 [Engineer]  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 3:21:32pm

The picture ibrodsky was talking about in #27 is here and it is provoking to say the least.

99 Timbre  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 3:23:01pm

I'll be sending the C-T some photocopied excerpts of Islamic tracts published in English in places such as northern India, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia. These works all praise Jihad as "qital," fighting, and how Jews, Polytheists, and disbelievers all deserve conversion or death. But since when have liberals been impressed by the truth?

100 EE  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 3:24:32pm

Here is an article by Bat Yeor on the culture of hate that calls itself "Islamic jihad".
[Link: www.nationalreview.com...]

At the dawn of the new millennium, the world is being confronted with an absolute culture of hate, characterized by paroxysms of international terrorism against civilians, and relgious intolerance. This culture of hate has multiple heads from Algeria to Afghanistan, to Indonesia, via Gaza and the West Bank, Damascus, Cairo, Khartoum, Teheran, and Karachi. It scatters the seeds of terrorism from one end of the earth to the other.
This hate, which suppresses freedom of thought, and condemns difference, calls itself "Islamic jihad." It draws on religious texts whose interpretation other Muslims dispute. Moreover, because these moderate Muslims challenge this interpretatioin of jihad, wishing to live in peace with the non-Muslim peoples and nations of the world, their lives are threatened. There is constant bloodshed in Algeria. Jihad is desseminating death and terror in Israel. In Southern Sudan, jihad has caused the death of some two million people, generated an even larger number of refugees, lead to the enslavement of tens of thousands, and produced deadly famines.
In Indonesia, some 200,000 deaths resulted from jihad violence in East Timor. Christians have been pursued, and massacred, and their churches burned down by jihadists in the Muluccas and other Indonesian islands. The death toll in these violent attacks is over 10,000, while an additional 8,000 Christians have been forcibly converted to Islam, including many who were circumcised. Atrocities are also being committed by jihadists in both the Philippines, and some northern Nigerian states. Hundreds of innocent people died when jihad struck at the Jewish Community Center of Buenos Aires in Argentina, and the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. In Egypt, jihadists have massacred Copts in their churches and villages, and murdered European tourists. Christians in Pakistan and in Iran live in terror of accusations of blasphemy, which, if "proven," can yield a death sentence. And a cataclysmic act of jihad terror resulted in the slaughter of nearly 3,000 innocent civilians of multiple faiths and nationalities in New York, on September 11, 2001. None of these victims were guilty of any crime. They were murdered and mutilated out of hate...

If the Chicago Tribune were to considere the full scope of what is going on in the name of Islamic jihad, they would move away from their underlying conviction that it is all the fault of the Jews, and of America's support for the survival of the Jewish state. They would see Israel's resistance to Islamic jihad in the context of the broader resistance to Islamic jihad taking place throughout the world of kafirdom. And they would understand the bloodlust of Hamas toward the population of Israel as the product of the hate and contempt toward what they regard as "apes and pigs" who should be lowly dhimmis and who have the audacity to want to live independently with freedom and democracy with an infidel state in land that Allah has reserved for his true believers. And they would understand that no concession by Israel would ever appease this bloodlust.

101 Mike C.  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 3:25:57pm

# 90 Iron Fist

Believe it or not, I actually registered over there at DU. I think I'm up to 5 posts now. Made a comment on a thread RE privatization of Iraq's oil industry. The replies were, for the most part, somewhat lacking in coherency. I'll infiltrate again tomorrow and see if there's anyplace good to lob in another grenade.

102 trigger girlie  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 3:26:34pm

#52 flatlander

So I am not the only lizardoid which lives in Al Chicago? Awesome, maybe someday we should have a meetup, I really want to see some normal people for a change.

103 rusta  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 3:28:55pm

I read the article and put it on the bottom of my parrot's cage so the article could recieve the tribute due

104 Catttt  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 3:30:49pm

(OT)
Most boring (most of the time) TV show on Earth:

NASA's Flight Control Room show. It shows a big room with huge wallscreens and lots of comps, with a few people working. I had it on without realizing it; someone dropped a book, and it scared my cat. (hehe)

105 ibrodsky  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 3:41:34pm

#98 [Engineer]

Ironically, one of the Syrian students giving the Nazi salute would not have made it to graduation had he not come to Barnes-Jewish Hospital in the U.S. for life-saving heart surgery.

106 Jakester  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 3:52:48pm

Either this scumbag is a brainless liberal a-wipe or a craven traitor, but either way, he should be fired for such a crummy, lopsided traitorous piece of garbage and be exiled to Saudi Arabia.

107 heretic  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 3:56:25pm

There's a huge settlement of Arabs around Chicago/Detroit area, including Palestinians, Yemeni's, Sudanese ... you name it, they're there. The Tribune is just playing to their audience, writing a feel-good article that they'll all buy to send back home to encourage all the aunts and uncles to join them here in the land of milk & honey.

You see, all the papers "back home" keep printing these stories about how used and abused Muslims are in the United States, how they are subjected to full-body cavity searches at American airports, and *gasp* people look at them "funny" in the supermarket.

Who-ever wrote this story for the Trib was just trying to reach out and touch someone in the Middle East, and show them all how warm and caring and harmless we silly American cowboys are.

I'll bet who-ever wrote it is a stringer for AP and has relatives in Iraq, too.

108 Jakester  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 3:58:48pm

Can anyone dig up an email address for this d'himmi mouthpiece?

109 maxx  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 4:10:16pm

No. 90 -

"It is no longer a matter of disagreements about public policy. It is about disagreeing about whether the sky is blue, or mauve.

Or perhaps chartreuse. Occasionally maybe it is paisley...

They aren't rational."

Actually, in a very twisted sense they are rational - they hate the United States, will ally with anyone who also hates the United States, and will ignore, twist and/or outright lie about any facts that get in their way. They do this with absolute consistency - so they are rational enough to understand which way to go to achieve their objective, which is to greatly weaken, if not destroy this country regardless of how much suffering it causes to either the United Staes and the rest of the world which depends on the Untied States for safety.

In a word, they are evil, rational but evil.

110 By the Numbers  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 4:10:57pm

Just dreaming - a hypothetical encounter on the streets of Fallujah between a reporter from the Chicago Tribune and a jihadi:

CT Reporter: Whassup!

Jihadi: Allah Akbar! Kill the infidel!

CT Reporter: Wait, I'm against this war of American imperialism...

Jihadi: Kill the infidel!

CT Reporter: No, listen, I hate Jews and support the Palestinians...

Jihadi: [Rolls eyes, snorts in exasperation] Kill the infidel!

CT Reporter: You're not listening. I'm a democrat and voted against Bush. Bush lied. Bush is Hitler!

Jihadi: [Face is flush, growing frustration] Kill the infidel!

CT Reporter: Damn it, I'm an imortant member of the American media and the best friend you nationalistic Iraqi insurgents have..

Jihadi: [Pauses momentarily, the light of recognition breaks upon his face] Comrade! Welcome to my humble home. May I offer you one of my 77 virgins for your pleasure this afternoon.

CT Reporter: Abdullah! Didn't recongize you behind that do-rag. No go on the virgins but I will take some "quality time" with your camel later. Say, how goes the heroic resistance against Bush and the Zionists. In'shallah.

Jihadi: Horrible. We just got our butts kicked here in Fallujah last week by the Marines. By the name of the Prophet, peace be upon him, there's a shortage of arms, recruiting has fallen off big time, and the payroll from Saudi Arabia is late again.

CT Reporter: That's tough, real tough. Can I do anything to help you?

Jihadi: Now that you mention it, I did have this idea for a story where we execute election volunteers in broad daylight...

111 Pro-Bush Canuck  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 4:15:18pm

This is precisely the sort of thing that leads me to wonder whether America's supreme tolerance of any idea--no matter how subversive or anti-American--is more of an asset than a liability. There is no question that freedom of speech, assembly, etc. is central to the very essence of America, yet what if that tolerance becomes so loose that America is paralyzed by weaklings and fifth-columnists? Can that happen?

The last major hot war--not counting Gulf I--was Vietnam. America was defeated badly in that conflict by her own people. The media, the hippies, leftists everywhere conspired with the enemy, spat on returning troops and generally acted against the American interest.

It's a real conundrum. You can't just shoot Michael Moore, yet you may not survive him either.

112 By the Numbers  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 4:17:02pm

Shoot Michael Moore?!

113 By the Numbers  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 4:18:31pm

...let's see...

It's not deer season.

It's not moose season.

114 Right Brain  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 4:20:03pm

Seventy-nine Islamic dominated countries in the world and only one, Turkey, is a democracy. All of the others are theocratic bastions of tyranny and oppression, but their citizens need to look to OTHER countries to find a reason to be angry?! The Chicago Tribune is decaying inside as fast as the New York Times.

One writer suggested today that Cynthia McKinney was not really out of the mainstream at all, that she is mainstream Left, even prescient mainstream Left: when an older newspaper, such as the Chicago Tribune speaks as they have in this article from a confused world of hunches and feelings, ignorant or ignoring of the available facts, one can only wonder what we have in store from the Left, probably nothing but McKinney level superstition. At least they no longer matter, are no longer a serious participant in world affairs. Thirty years ago they were debating whether there should be private ownership of property, now they're content to worry about Christmas trees in Fire Stations.

btw Merry Christmas everyone.

115 By the Numbers  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 4:20:34pm

It's not pheasant season.

It's not even Duck season.

Oh my, it must be morlock and LLL season.

Gerty, grab you gun, we're gonna hunt some yellow-striped, lily livered LLL vermin.

116 PDM  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 4:29:02pm

#115 By the Numbers,

Lefty season!

Morlock season!

Lefty season!

Morlock season!

117 Keelie  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 4:34:12pm

(In California...No snow!)

Seriously, when I read the article and all the comments, it all boils down to one thing.

This newspaper is lying. They are deliberately lying. They know they are lying and for some reason they are getting away with it.

If Dan Rather didn't get away with his outrageous lies, why should this newspaper get away with their's?

118 Iron Fist[deleted]  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 4:35:12pm
119 PDM  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 4:43:10pm

#118 Iron Fist,

Shoot 'em now. Shoot 'em now.

120 lmg  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 4:46:23pm

#27:

The other day I came across a picture of the graduation ceremony at a medical school in Damascus, Syria. What shocked me, but didn't surprise me, was that the students were giving the stiff-arm Nazi salute.

Maybe they were just preparing to have their blood pressure taken.

Or, it could be because Syria is ruled by Baathists = Arab National Socialists = Arab Nazis.

121 QueenEsther  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 5:03:14pm

#96 MJ 

Hankmeister-
Did you mean to write the following?
"I'd expect this kind of bullshit from the Chicago Sun Times."

doubt it. Until recently, the Chicago Sun-Times was a sister paper of the Jerusalem Post, both owned by Hollinger International. The Sun-Times has been respectable on its coverage of Israel.

#108 Jakester 

Can anyone dig up an email address for this d'himmi mouthpiece?

I have it at my office - I'll get it tomorrow. But I'm guessing its joshea@tribune.com

122 Duane  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 5:06:37pm

God forbid there is another terrorist attack, but I envision the following headlines/spin:

Washington Post: terrorists attack, minorities and poor hit hardest

NY Times: terrorists attack, Jason Blair reports from the scene

Dan Rather: I have this memo...

Chicago Tribune: our policies toward Israel caused the outrage in an otherwise peace loving society

123 Bobwolf  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 5:35:11pm

The Tribune is hurting and they can't figure out why.
They throw free tribs in front of suburban garages every couple of weeks so they can lie about their circulation figures.
But the paper is useful for wrapping fish scraps and dogshit (so I hear).

124 Red_CA_Island  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 5:35:48pm

We all should have learned a valuable lesson from the see BS attempt to besmirch the person and legacy of Ronald Reagan last fall. By innundating advertisers, we were able to get that bit of crap derailed to a cable channel with exactly three viewers -- six if you believe the MSM.

Perhaps it is time to visit a publication like the ChiTrib and selectively identify national advertisers. Reach out with a polite email message. Don't threaten to forever leave them; they know better -- Suggest that for three to six months or until they publicly announce that they will advertise no more on the offending publication, you will take your business elsewhere. For those in the Chicago area, you might take the list a bit deeper and reach out and touch those advertisers you know.

I live and work in a retail world. A loud rant is generally dismissed out of hand; a polite, "How could this be?" will get attention every time. According to the register up in the corner, there have been just over 30,000 unique visitors to this site today. You cannot begin to believe the impact of 30,000 polite, "We're gonna miss ya 'til April" messages.

Try it. BUT, first fasten your seatbelts. There will be a big noise.

125 sms111  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 5:39:45pm

Why is the Chicago Tribune doing their best to hide the facts about Islam?

Because the Arabs are paying off our MSM news editors, that's why.

It's time for investigation of the finances and spending habits of the MSM upper echelon.

126 sms111  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 5:42:56pm

#117 Keelie

Seriously, when I read the article and all the comments, it all boils down to one thing. This newspaper is lying. They are deliberately lying. They know they are lying and for some reason they are getting away with it.

Arab petrodollar$$$ to Swiss bank accounts for the senior people. Isn't it getting obvious?

You heard it here first.

127 sms111  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 5:47:12pm

#98 [Engineer]

The picture ibrodsky was talking about in #27 is here and it is provoking to say the least.

They're just practicing Therapeutic Touch, where a practitioner senses the Life Force of their patients.

128 sms111  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 5:53:01pm

#44 MJ

The Tribune owns those other Jew-hating newspapers- the Boston Globe and the LA Times.
WOW the plot thickens.

And I repeat, WHO owns the Tribune ?
A family ? A Company ?...

How about...the Arabs?

129 MJ  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 6:09:33pm

I don't think the Arabs own the Tribune Company though that's always possible.
The Tribune was owned by Joseph Medill. His Grandson was the owner Robert R. McCormick.
McCormick hated Jews. He hated Jews with a passion that most Arabs can never touch. He hated Jews so much that he supported Hitler during the War and was the only newspaperman to report on troop movements during war. He should have been tried and hung for that act of treason but wasn't. FDR, by the way, hated MCCormick.
The Tribune Company is a publically traded Company which, of course, never hires Jews in any position of authority. There has never been a Jew connected with that newspaper who had any authority either.
The paper remains an antisemitic propaganda rag.
I believe the McCormick family still retains some ownership of the paper though I have no idea who majority ownsership resides in.
The Tribune Company also owns WGN and the Chicago Cubs.
Not surprisingly, the one visible Jew connected with the Cub organization left this year under threat ( Steve Stone ).
The Cubs probably are a good fit for the Tribune as Wrigley was a long time Jew hater as well. But that's another story.
No self-respecting Jew living in the Chicago area should read or advertise in that newspaper.
I believe it is a good idea to let advertisers know that as a supporter of Israel, you will no longer buy from anyone who advertises in that antisemitic hate sheet.
Most older Jews will not allow their death notices to be published in the Chicago Tribune. As one of their lasts acts in this world, these older Jews will not permit one dime to end up with the Chicago Tribune.

130 Bubble Girl  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 6:13:47pm

#129 MJ

I had no idea, thank you for the info about this POS rag called the Tribune.

131 Mojo Jojo  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 6:18:28pm

How much money did the Tribune Company make off of steroid freak Sammy Sosa? Millions. What do they care if he drops dead in 10 years. They'll just find another steroid freak to scam the loser Cub fans.

132 TouchDown  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 6:18:32pm

And of course this pitiful whitewash of an article fails to mention the supreme role of the al-dhimmi concept in Islam, relegating Jews and Christians to third class humiliate persecuted minorities in an Islamic apartheid regime.

Of course, if they admitted that, they would have to admit that one of the reasons Muslims are enraged by Israel and her supporters is because they are enraged by the concept of Jewish self-determination in a Jewish-nation state, Jewish independence, which flies in the face of al-dhimmi.

133 MJ  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 6:28:57pm

For those of you who asked, here is a list of th Tribune's Board of Directors: ( You can always write them and let them know what you think of their Jew-hating policy):

Jeffrey Chandler
President and Chief Executive Officer, Chandler Ranch Co.

Dennis J. FitzSimons
Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer
Tribune Company

Jack Fuller
President, Tribune Publishing Company

Roger Goodan
Consultant to Schlumberger Limited

Enrique Hernandez, Jr.
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Inter-Con Security
Systems, Inc.

Betsy D. Holden
President, Global Marketing and Category Development
Kraft Foods, Inc.

Robert S. Morrison
Ret. Vice Chairman, PepsiCo, Inc.
Ret. Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, The Quaker Oats Co.

William A. Osborn
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Northern Trust
Corporation

Patrick G. Ryan
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Aon Corporation

William Stinehart, Jr.
Partner, Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP

Dudley S. Taft
President and Director, Taft Broadcasting Company

Kathryn C. Turner
Chairperson and Chief Executive Officer, Standard Technology,
Inc.

And here is there Board of Corporate Management:
Dennis J. FitzSimons
Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer


Jack Fuller
President, Tribune Publishing


Donald C. Grenesko
Senior Vice President, Finance and Administration


Crane H. Kenney
Senior Vice President, General Counsel and Secretary

Thomas D. Leach
Vice President, Development


Luis E. Lewin
Senior Vice President, Human Resources


Patrick J. Mullen
President, Tribune Broadcasting


Ruthellyn Musil
Senior Vice President, Corporate Relations


Scott Smith
Chief Operating

[Link: www.tribune.com...]

134 Mojo Jojo  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 6:29:08pm

#44 MJ

The Tribune owns those other Jew-hating newspapers- the Boston Globe and the LA Times.

Just for the the record the Boston Globe is owned by the NY Times Not much of a difference. The Tribune company owns the LA Times, Baltimore Sun, Hartford Courant, NY Newsday, Ft. Lauderdale Sun-Sentinel & Orlando Sentinel. As well as, WPIX Ch. 11 in NYC. They boadcast the crappy NY Mets who are owned by Jews.

135 MJ  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 6:37:39pm

Thanks MoJo Jojo. I did catch that back in #51 but it's worth mentioning here again.

136 wiseoldfool  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 7:13:48pm

The Chicago Tribune is my daily paper. I damn near choked on a piece of bacon this morning as I read that editorial. It was basically a rehash of conventional post modern "wisdom" regarding Islam and displayed a complete misunderstanding of the situation. The Trib editorial page is pretty fair and balanced Monday through Saturday but is 100% the domain of leftwing dhimmis, dummies and moonbats on Sundays.

137 Promethea  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 7:22:52pm

#29 ferris . . .

Anyone who was able to read that whole article is a better person than I am. I could only get so far before my blood pressure went through the roof.

Me too. It was so uninformed and stupid. I thought about the Chicago Tribune in 1940, when they were notorious Nazi-loving isolationists, and realized that they have changed very little in the past 65 years. Colonel McCormick's ghost still rules them.

They are stupid. End of story. I subscribe only to keep up vaguely with the local news. As far as foreign news, they are ignoramuses.

138 Zhang Fei  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 7:27:59pm

I don't think these guys at the Chicago Tribune are dhimmis. They're just reflexively anti-American. Championing Islamic interests against American interests is just their latest hobby horse. The thinking is that in any dispute between Americans and foreigners, Americans must be wrong, and must therefore make concessions. In their view, American interests and values don't matter - only foreign ones do. It's a kind of noblesse oblige where journalists want to give up what isn't theirs to give up - our friends to our enemies and our interests vs foreign interests. This is why I think the old saying is wrong - it should read "the first thing we do, let's kill all the journalists".

139 Promethea  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 7:30:09pm

#35 spirit of 1683 . . .

wanton destruction of entire cities and civilizations in the name of Allah

I would love to read a book that concentrated on this single topic--what civilizations have the mad-dog islamists destroyed?

I can think of a few--the Copts, the Christian Chaldeans, the Zoroastrians, the Jews in various lands, the Berbers, the Kurds, the Gandarans of Afghanistan, Hindus throughout Indian, various African cultures, others . . .

140 Promethea  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 7:37:51pm

#52 Flatlander by the Lake . . .

I pity the poor fools at the Libune. They're fossils. Losing their readership with no clue as to why.

They are truly fossils. They are totally clueless. It will be fun to watch them disappear.

141 piglet  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 7:39:28pm

And islamists kill "unicorns"

[Link: www.bridgesforpeace.com...]


The last wild oryx was shot in Oman in 1972, but the San Diego Zoo had a breeding core made up of several individuals caught in Saudi Arabia. When Saudi officials learned that Israel wished to acquire some of the oryxes, they nixed the idea. But then the American government stepped in to persuade the Saudis, and four pairs of oryx were soon on their way to Israel.
142 piglet  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 7:44:15pm
The Arabian oryx, a white antelope that resides on the Arabian Peninsula and is responsible for the unicorn myth, could become extinct in the wild in Oman for the second time in 30 years, the World Wide Fund for Nature announced April 16.

"The great herd of some 400 wild Arabian oryx in Oman's re-introduction project has been so ravished by poachers since 1996 that it is no longer viable," said Ralph Daly, advisor for Conservation of the Environment in the Diwan of the Royal Court in Oman.

Between October 1996 and March 1999, the numbers of Arabian oryx in the wild in Oman fell from 400 to 100. In three years, poachers have removed or killed at least 200 oryx. 39 of the wild animals have been moved to enclosures to protect them from poaching.

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

143 Dadzilla  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 7:48:43pm

" The U.S. should adopt policies that make Muslims as comfortable here as Christians." Whaaat? so the Constitution, the Bill Of Rights, Civil Rights, and equality and anti discrimination legislation are not enough for islamics to find happiness in our land? Only the memory of what I paid for this monitor prevents me from putting my fist through it!

144 reader  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 8:01:49pm

Cattt 95,

Winn now has to take several precautions, in his travels and for his radio appearances. Muslims are threatening the radio stations that have him on. Cowards.

I estimate, and this is just ballpark, that he has reached at least 25 million people, and he's still going, I believe. You can see his past appearances schedule online. Michael Savage says the aggregate for all talk radio listeners is 40 million nationwide.

Winn's is one site I always make sure I mention when I'm out talking about Islam. It just demolishes Islam. Any Muslim trying to refute and defend their religion against his writings is forced to confront thousands of quotes taken from Islamic scriptures that Winn has so well organized, one that gives a much clearer and therefore stronger and more compact contextual vantage than had previously existed when the texts were only approached or considered separately. Its like he has constructed an enormous brick wall. You read the debates at his site he has with Muslims, and what you see so often is how they usually end up having to eat their own words, the way a rock thrown at a concrete wall just deflects off of it.

All that said, I don't believe most Muslims can be argued out of their faith. It takes a combination of factors working together.

145 mich-again  Sun, Dec 26, 2004 10:08:01pm

Just remember that Muslims are collectivists and most all American Leftists are also collectivists. There is no reason to dig any deeper than that for an excuse for the alliance.

The missing piece of Josef Stalin's puzzle was a mind-numbing religion like Islam that reinforced the collectivist claptrap.

146 SpiritOf1683  Mon, Dec 27, 2004 3:22:27am

#72 pookleblinky

I have yet to see 15 million muslims rise in denunciation of the Hadith.

I have yet to see 15 Muslims rise in denunciation of the Hadith.

147 TheRealAuntMyrtle  Mon, Dec 27, 2004 3:41:41am

#83 Hulegu Khan 12/26/2004 04:51PM PST

1,500,000 that's a lot more than I figured. Maybe I should study finite math some more.

Thanks Mr. Khan

148 SpiritOf1683  Mon, Dec 27, 2004 3:46:31am

#139 Promethea

I would love to read a book that concentrated on this single topic--what civilizations have the mad-dog islamists destroyed?
I can think of a few--the Copts, the Christian Chaldeans, the Zoroastrians, the Jews in various lands, the Berbers, the Kurds, the Gandarans of Afghanistan, Hindus throughout Indian, various African cultures, others . . .

You don't need to read a book to know which civilization they've earmarked next to go the same way as the Copts, Christian Chaldeans< Gandarans, Christian Assyrians etc. The problem is, the MSM, LLLs, PC brigade and the Moores/Chomskys of this world are making their task much easier in achieving that objective.

149 SpiritOf1683  Mon, Dec 27, 2004 3:56:55am

[Link: www.flex.com...]

Some really scary stuff in here. If you want to know what Islamists thinks of us, what they intend for us non-Muslims and their track record, it is detailed in this site.

150 big L  Mon, Dec 27, 2004 5:07:46am

OT-sort of. I hear this drum beat to get rid of Rumsfeld increasing here in so cal. this am it was KABC 790, where the current talk jock is discussing the resignation as already accomplished. This wanna-be radio host is saying that after the Iraqi elections, Rummy wil be gone and how he is an old man and how they will make up some reason for him to go home to spend time w/ his family. (Altho its only those who are
3 and 15 who do that, acc to this radio idiot.)
Now he is quoting Trent Lott, trent Lott ! who says lost confidence is the reason.
It would be better for Hastert, Frist, Lott, and McCain to resign before Rummy.It would be better if Rummy had the vice presidency in '06 and then W resign.
If any adult shows his skills in D.C. and isn't all warm and fuzzy but focussed then it is off with his head. Rummy doesn't spend his morning by reading letters to soldiers families, no he is trying to manage and win, yes win, a war and keep our soldiers from dying. Remenber Patton--get the other soldier to die for his country.Rummy is a CEO in back ground not a crying Mo-Do.
This drumb-beat against Rummy is insane. But it is the same over-arching agenda of the left.To wit, chicago crack-pot editorials, slanted LA. Times articles=Donk press-releases, whisper campaigns against Rummy. Bring down the couintry from the inside.
This campaign against rumsfeld, we bloggers must not let happen.


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