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 RetweetWaPo on Bush: Insensitive, Freaky, Stingy

Wed, Dec 29, 2004 at 10:58:29 am PST

Here’s the latest Bush-bashing media meme, already spreading like wildfire through the usual channels: that President Bush is “insensitive” to the suffering caused by the Indonesian tsunami. The Washington Post’s opening paragraph:

The Bush administration more than doubled its financial commitment yesterday to provide relief to nations suffering from the Indian Ocean tsunami, amid complaints that the vacationing President Bush has been insensitive to a humanitarian catastrophe of epic proportions.

The Post goes on to inform us that President Bush isn’t just “insensitive,” he’s also “freaky.”

There was an international outpouring of support after the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, and even some administration officials familiar with relief efforts said they were surprised that Bush had not appeared personally to comment on the tsunami tragedy. “It’s kind of freaky,” a senior career official said.

The president of the Council on Foreign Relations thinks we’re missing our chance to buy the love of Islamic countries:

Some foreign policy specialists said Bush’s actions and words both communicated a lack of urgency about an event that will loom as large in the collective memories of several countries as the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks do in the United States. “When that many human beings die — at the hands of terrorists or nature — you’ve got to show that this matters to you, that you care,” said Leslie H. Gelb, president emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations. …

Gelb said what appears to be a grudging increase in effort sends the wrong message, at a time when dollar totals matter less than a clear statement about U.S. intentions. Noting that the disaster occurred at a time when large numbers of people in many nations — especially Muslim ones such as Indonesia — object to U.S. policies in Iraq, he said Bush was missing an opportunity to demonstrate American benevolence.

After all, look how much love we get from Egypt for our $2 billion a year.

The last paragraph is designed to leave you with the impression that America is indeed a stingy nation:

Among the world’s two dozen wealthiest countries, the United States often is among the lowest in donors per capita for official development assistance worldwide, even though the totals are larger. According to the Paris-based Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development of 30 wealthy nations, the United States gives the least — at 0.14 percent of its gross national product, compared with Norway, which gives the most at 0.92 percent.

Notice how the Washington Post glosses over the data that says “totals are larger,” and reports only the statistic that makes us appear miserly.

But here’s what mainstream media isn’t showing us, using graphs of 2002 development aid from the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development web site; first, the per capita graph, showing the US near the bottom:

The graph showing actual dollar amounts, however, reveals a very different picture:

Also note that these graphs only display “developmental” aid from the US government; American donations to non-governmental charities, which dwarf governmental handouts, are not included.

UPDATE at 12/29/04 12:16:42 pm:

Wizbang reports that the Washington Post also failed to inform us that Leslie H. Gelb, the only official willing to go on record in this story, was a senior advisor on John F. Kerry’s foreign relations team.

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266 comments

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1 Joel  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:01:04am

I wondered how soon the LLL would blame the US (and Israel for that matter) for the tsunami.

2 Athos  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:01:26am

They never miss an opportunity to take a cheap shot or misrepresent the facts in order to promote the message of their agenda.

3 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:01:46am

Nor do any of the figures include the use of our EVIL HORRIBLE MILITARY in rescue and assistance efforts...eg: little or no mention of the ships making way to the areas affected by the tsunamis--

4 gymnast  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:02:12am

The left, in attempting to exploit the tragedy for political purposes have revealed their utter lack of moral foundation.

5 Thom  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:02:51am

What the hell did they want him to do? Don sack cloth and sit in the road scraping his boils with potshards while pouring ashes on his head?

6 ibrodsky  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:02:58am

But look at all the wonderful things they (the UN, Islamic states, etc.) do for us.

7 rightasrain  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:02:59am

Next News Flash from Washington Post:

"President Bush has cooties!"

8 Golem Akbar  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:03:50am

(Moonbat rant): no! no facts! I'm melting... (channeling the wicked witch of the east)

9 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:04:14am

Here's a nice OT

I'm not surprised...


Ramsey Clarke to defend Saddam

10 TimK  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:04:22am

Maybe the Blue State types will eat this up. I tend to think that the Red State types have about had it with the "Blame America First" crowd.
We may expect to hear load complaints from the Right in this country.

11 someone  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:04:54am

We don't believe in handouts through corrupt bureaucratic institutions. We believe in trade.

The left here and in Europe, OTOH, believe in destroying poor nations' ability to compete via protectionism and subsidized exports, keeping these brown peons on the teat of handouts forever.

12 TMF  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:05:42am

And, according to THIS LINK, the amount of donations to PRIVATE organizations is absolutely mindboggling.

You know, because us stupid Americans have this weird preternatural DISTRUST OF GOVERNMENT TO HANDLE OUR MONEY AND OUR PHILANTHROPY.

Aren't we non-Danes silly.

13 Joel  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:06:42am

#9 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

What's the matter? Wasn't Jackie Chiles available?

14 Beagle  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:06:59am

Perhaps BNP or the Russian Orthodox Church would like to kick in some oil-for-fraud money.

15 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:07:43am

And our beloved President isn't sitting still for the critisim either:

Bush Criticizes U.N. 'Stingy' Comment

16 ibrodsky  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:08:20am

The UN bureaucrats are mad we haven't turned the money spigot wide open. It's times like these that corrupt officials relish. With hundreds of millions of $ in aid money flowing, who would notice if they pocketed a hundred thousand $ here or there?

17 davesax  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:08:21am

Check out Honest Reporting's Report about the outpouring of aid the Israelis are giving to the victims of the tsunami, and how all of the MSM are ignoring it, despite a press conference held in Israel.

18 Furious J  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:08:35am

I like that Bush's Press Secretary essentially said, "This President doesn't rush out in front of the microphones to say, 'we feel your pain,' " and is actually, you know, doing something constructive instead.

And if he had made a big showy display for the cameras, a la Clinton, the media would have just blasted him for not doing enough anyway.

70,000+ dead should not be an excuse for a photo op.

19 [Engineer]  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:08:42am

A lot of Muslims were effected by this, where is the money from Muslim countries?

20 Super Fly  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:08:51am

Our current account deficit is approx. 6% of GDP!

That means we send fully 6% of our GDP oversees in the form of aid, charity, investments and trade dollars.


That's the real story.

21 Thom  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:09:14am

OTOH, maybe he could have bought a vial of Clinton's carefully cultivated tears ...

22 locutus  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:09:22am

damned if you do...

23 SkippyMoment  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:10:43am

"The president of the Council on Foreign Relations thinks we’re missing our chance to buy the love of Islamic countries"

Love that can be bought is not love, but of course in the twisted view of the LLL MSM, that point is irrelevant. They never miss an opportunity to twist a good and generous act into something seedy and self-promoting. They are only projecting their own motivations on others.

/end caring what they think or say

24 stuck in california  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:12:00am

And they'll be the 1st ones bitching about the National dept!

25 Powderfinger  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:12:01am

This refers to "development aid", and does not reflect Food Aid.

If we were to include contributions to the UN World Food Program, then we'd have to mention that the US pays 51.4% of that programs budget. This also doesn't take into consideration programs funded through the G8, NGO's, direct foreign aid, etc...

But let's not mention that. America needs to be shamed, and we can't do it with all those pesky facts hanging around.

26 Big Al  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:12:04am

"The Vacationing President Bush"...just in case you didn't get the picture that he was insensitive enough to people dying! What a bunch of creeps!

27 [Engineer]  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:12:26am

This is typical LLL bull. They think it is more important who you look and what you say, rather than what you do. I would not be surprised that we are doing more than any other country, but it doesn't count with the MSM, because we don't say the right words.

28 Intestinal Fortitude  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:12:36am

An insensitive Mr. Bush?...c'mon.

Who wants a pussy for a POTUS anyway, gheesh! Get a clue WaPo.

29 Terrye  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:13:04am

I very rarely write letters to the editor but I responded to this. What bs. silly people. bitch... bitch... bitch...

The United States is and for many years has been the largest donor in terms of international aid. We also are the largest donors to multinational organizations like Nato and the UN. We provide the logistics that make it possible for aid from other countries to get where it needs to go. We give more privately than anyone else as well. And as a general rule the people right behind us are not Norwegians or Danes they are Japanese. We are not alone, they don't get any credit either.

I know that some liberals think this makes them look good but it only trashes America and if they think the poor in this country who they are constantly saying they represent want to see more foreign aid then they really are out of touch.

As for Islamic countries I was really touched with the way the jihadis in Iraq took time off killing and maiming people to show solidarity with their Islamic brtothers and sisters in SE Asia. What are the chances they will divert some of the millions going to support international terrorism to the people suffering in places like Indonesia? Slim to none I would say.

30 endangered in Mass  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:13:08am

I saw an article in which we so Norwegian dufus says that the core of the problem is that we are undertaxed.

Thankless bastards.

31 ibrodsky  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:13:37am

Let's give $100 million to the UN. After the way they handled the food-for-oil program, why not? I'm sure Kofi Annan's son will be very grateful.

32 cirby  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:14:58am

Not only do they omit the huge amounts given by private individuals, they don't note that the amount shown "donated" by the US government is less than half of the direct international aid handed out by the US gov, and the total amount given by citizens, government, corporations, and churches is approximately equal to the amount everyone else on the planet hands over, added together. Hell, the amount on the second chart shows that, in actual dollars, US *churches* give more money in international aid than the next six or seven countries added together.

...and that's not including the indirect things like, oh, sending an entire battle group with a few thousand Marines over (at a cost of a couple of million bucks a day), or the dozens of US planes flying in that direction right now, loaded down with all sorts of useless stuff like water and medicine (at a cost of a few thousand bucks per plane, per hour).

33 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:16:23am
34 realwest  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:16:36am

AS posted on the "Huge Explosion" thread, where it was way OT:

I've written several posts in the year or so since I first started posting at LGF on the generosity of America. The following is from today's CNN.Com:

the United States spent almost $15.8 billion for "official development assistance" to developing countries in 2003. Next closest was Japan, at $8.9 billion.

That doesn't include billions more the United States spends in other areas such as AIDS and HIV programs and other U.N. assistance.

"We outmatch the contributions of other nations combined; we'll continue to do so," Bush spokesman Trent Duffy told reporters in Crawford, Texas, where the president is spending a post-Christmas vacation at his ranch.

Americans last year gave an estimated $241 billion to charitable causes -- domestic and foreign -- according to a study by Giving USA Foundation. That's up from $234 billion in 2002. The foundation did not break down how much was for domestic causes and how much for foreign.

I wonder why we don't "publicize" this generosity more often. I mean modesty is one thing, but when the bleepin' UN, and France and the "Islamic" countries attack the USA (verbally, obviously for the UN - WE provide most of the UN peacekeeping forces and for France which only uses force against third world countries like the Ivory Coast) we ought to smack them in the face with these statistics AND ask "what have you done lately?"

35 csva  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:17:13am

When a sea-otter gets sick where does the president stand.
When a tree blows in the wind why doesn't he have a press conference to "share" some pain.
When a bee stings a democrat where is the bi-partisianship!

The MSM is a bunch of agenda driven high maintenance croc-tearing cry babies. Instead of actaully planning his response they demand he spend his time with them answering their loaded questions.

36 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:17:15am

Via Instapundit, but these links carve up the WaPo article pretty well:

[Link: www.redstate.org...]

[Link: thoughtsonline.blogspot.com...]

#26 - like what would a President in the White House be able to accomplish that he couldn't accomplish anywhere else? Maybe get the Press Corps a soundbite or two? (Fine speech, now what!?) But what good does that do for the people of Sri Lanka or any of the other affected areas - the relief is already underway and ongoing as US troops are already on the ground providing assistance, two naval battle groups are heading in to assist and provide, among other things, access to potable water, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

37 Luigi  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:18:15am

Another decent enough day for the Asian stock indices of the countries hit by the disaster. No one holding stock in these countries seems to think the disaster is any big deal, economically speaking. I haven't seem these indices decline since the disaster, even on the day of the disaster.

Interpretation? Its a cruel world? Maybe. Or maybe nobody expects the governments involved to spend much on those effected by the tragedy. And maybe they just see a lot of real estate now available for development.

38 zombie  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:18:22am

Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaulteth not itself, is not puffed up.
I Corinthians (ch. XIII, v. 4)

And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
I Corinthians (ch. XIII, v. 13)

39 davesax  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:18:40am
40 alegrias  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:18:52am

Thank you Charles for facts & a forum in which to find them. Y'all keep me sane.

Hmmm, speaking of relief, has Hillary donated cattle futures or book proceeds or Teresa's Heinz Foundation kicked in yet? Paging Dr. Howard Dean, George Soros, Michael Moore, Emily's List, Moveon.org & UBL's family.

41 Renna  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:20:01am
And also note that these graphs only display aid from the US government; American donations to non-governmental charities are not included.

Which is the whole point of America in a way. Things are done by The People.

Most of my circle of family and friends give at least 10 percent a year. For starters.

Note that 0.92% is not 92 percent, but < 1 percent. An easy thing to miss for those not math-minded.

42 ibrodsky  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:20:13am

What counts here is not the facts, but the spin...

The American people will once again assume most of the burden. But the demands of an envious and dishonest world know no limits.

Peope who sympathize with the phony "Palestinians" couldn't discern justice if their lives depended on it.

43 scott in east bay  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:20:46am

Clinton would have rushed to the microphone, any microphone, to tell the world how personally devasted he was. How nice. I suppose the WaPo would have preferred Bush to fly right back to the White House to declare, like Haig, that he "was in charge".

44 TaggartTranscontinental  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:20:47am

If the MSM did their homework (God forbid that) they would know that the average American (individual, not corporation or other NGO) gives over $1,400 each year to charity while our European counterparts give $147 - a tenth of what we do!

But the US does hold all the blame for this disaster. If we didn't bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the Pacific and Eurasian plates would not have been forced into the Indian plate by the extreme force, causing this earthquake! Nevermind the 60 year difference.

Also, American pollution is making the atmosphere more dense, weighing down on the earth's surface and contracting the tectonic plates, making earthquakes more frequent. And, Americans and their SUVs are pushing down on the N. American plate with great force, which is pushing against the Pacific plate, which is pushing against the Indian plate! It all makes so much sense now!

/LLL logic DE-ACTIVATED!

45 Lady Redhawk  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:22:46am

I'm so sick of all the whining! What would happen if we closed our purse strings for an entire year - not just the gov't, but the American people as well. We could plow all those billions of dollars into our own infrastructure. What a wonderful, dynamic change it would make in our daily lives! The rest of the world would throw a fit, of course, but they are throwing a fit now.

After a year of no American patronage, perhaps they would be grateful for our hard earned dollars. Polite, even. They may learn to say "please" and "thank you " instead of "gimme".

Perhaps they would speak well of Americans and our generosity, and try to emulate us . Perhaps they would visit our buildings instead of driving planes into them.

Ah, what a fantasy...

46 scott in east bay  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:22:48am

By the way, I believe Greenpeace has already declared the the tsunami was our fault because we won't sign Kyoto, and that's why we have global warning, which is called by Halliburton, becaue Medea Benjamin said so.. and (well, you get the idea).

47 helloworld  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:23:03am

#5 Thom
What the hell did they want him to do? Don sack cloth and sit in the road scraping his boils with potshards while pouring ashes on his head?

LOLOLOL11111!
you lunatic, i laughed so hard i spat up my soda, almost ruined my monitor, and choked after reading this!

48 scott in east bay  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:23:12am

"caused by Halliburton" PIMF

49 ibrodsky  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:23:56am

NEWSFLASH:

MDA [Magen David Adom] Dispatches Urgent Medical Supplies to Sri-Lanka

50 ex-simple servant  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:24:01am

#43 Scott

Clinton did just that. Here is a link I posted on an earlier thread.

Biting the lower lip...

51 Athos  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:24:11am

#44

they would know that the average American (individual, not corporation or other NGO) gives over $1,400 each year to charity while our European counterparts give $147

But it's the government's job to do this...that's why I want to pay so much more in taxes...

/Euroweenie whinging

52 Irene NYC  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:25:20am

Let's not just be stingy, let's be racist too! How about if the U.S. government in solidarity with the Zionists in Israel refuses to send over anything until the Muslim government officials in Sri Lanka allow Israeli medical workers to join the relief effort.

/sarcasm OFF

53 ibrodsky  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:25:31am

Once again, Israel will do way more than its share--hampered only by the opposition of the Mohamedens' vile, anti-Semitic ideology.

54 Beagle  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:26:14am

Assuming it's possible to throw money on this problem there is still the matter of how to do it and have the money land in the affected areas, not European or Caribbean bank accounts.

55 Patrizio  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:26:48am

You totally got them with those graphs, Charles.

The Communist left as usual thinks it's a race to see who gives more money: they think all problems are solved by just pouring in more and more aid, without even realizing there is no actual obligation to send any.

Also, I think the proper President of the infamous CFR is Richard Haas

56 Terrye  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:27:16am

endangered:

The core problem is those self righteous dicks don't know their assholes from their elbows as my Daddy used to say.

We pay 87% of the cost of maintaining Nato. Here is an idea. Norway picks up the tab for Nato and we take the money we spent providing a defence for European pacifists and spend it on the poor instead.

57 Athos  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:28:06am

#45 Lady Redhawk

That is a nice fantasy...but ultimately, that is not what our values are. We will assist even those who hate us - and do so in a manner far beyond those who snipe at us.

I do think that we should take a stand in 2005 - and donate our entire UN dues contributions and UN related aid to private organizations providing assistance around the world - including the tsunami relief efforts - as a statement over the corruption and mismanagement of the UN. (That would also include ending all US military logistical / airlift / sealift support for UN peacekeeping efforts.)

58 hornet  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:28:31am

..OT..sort of...CFRA Radio here in Ottawa, Mike Harris was noting (13.45 hrs approx.EST) that Israel was ready IMMEDIATELY/IMMEDIATELY to send aid to Asia, while Dept. of Foreign Affairs here in Ottawa is saying "no one has asked us for anything yet" ? Our PM Martin is still on vacation. The Defence Dept does not have the transportation to get a special unit there! What an embarrassment! No further comment.

59 Renna  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:28:53am

#44 Taggart

Only $1400? I would have thought it much higher. But that is per person, so it averaged out over children and others not contributing at all. And as you said doesn't count businesses.

Does the US get credit for the contributions from other nations to whom we give aid? I mean, if I give 10 dollars to my kid to put in the kettle, I certainly claim that on my taxes, not his.

60 Obi-Wan  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:28:56am

There is an old Chinese saying that goes something like "If you do a favor for someone, he thanks you. If you do the same favor twice, you inherit the job."

America has inherited too many jobs.

61 ibrodsky  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:29:24am

Let's get our facts right. There is a picture on The Jerusalem Post right now with a caption reading:

Sri Lanka welcomes IDF Homefront Command

I think the problem was that Sri Lanka asked Israel to send a smaller group--saying they are pressed for accommodations.

The greeting at the airport looks friendly...

62 hs  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:30:18am

Indonesia is a Muslin country.

Instead of developing goodwill with a region of the world where we need goodwill, Bush offers 1/2 of the cost of his inauguration and makes no public expression of sympathy.

Another diplomatic screw-up from the dolt.

63 Lady Redhawk  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:30:28am

#56 Terry


" We pay 87% of the cost of maintaining Nato. Here is an idea. Norway picks up the tab for Nato and we take the money we spent providing a defence for European pacifists and spend it on the poor instead. "
---

I agree with you. And let's spend it on OUR poor!

64 Athos  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:30:57am

#55 Patrizio

You totally got them with those graphs, Charles.

There's a reason why Egeland and the others are very specific in how they parse the accusations - they are very careful to present the US in the worst possible way.

65 trigger girlie  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:32:20am

I don't even want to read what those morons say. I wish they all die horrible deaths.

66 Melody_in_Houston  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:32:43am

I know where we could get $20 million to help the tsunami victims...put a STOP PAYMENT on the check to the "Palestinians."

67 Broomer  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:33:04am

#45

I'm with you.

I think with all the UN's ungratefulness, more wallets that were just about to open have been slammed shut.

I'm sure the level of donation would be much higher, but we are just fed up waiting for the recipient countries to say "thank you" and to stop voting against the USA at the UN.

And it just galls me that everyone is complaining how stingy the US is and not a peep about France "generosity" (less than $200K?)

JG

68 Thom  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:33:08am

#62 hs

Total aid is expected to pass the 1 billion mark. Idiot.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

69 el presidente'  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:33:59am

The MSM, which comprise mostly of democrats, will stop at nothing to blame the United States, HitlerBush

Without getting any facts, they will try to portray the US as stingy, when in fact, the US is the most giving nation on earth EVER.

If you combine all of the charitable giving by the US, last year private contributions added up to almost $250,000,000, thats right 1/4 of a trillion dollars. Out of this 1/4 trillion dollars given approximately 34 billion went to foreign aid. Which happens to be close to 1/2 of all foriegn aid in the world.

However the MSM, (democrats) will try to make sure they paint a picture, that could be farther from the truth. Bush is evil, Amercia is bad.

I try to ignore the MSM, unfortunately, half of the people in the US, believe there bullshit, and that's what bugs me.

I hope that places like LGF will continue there growth and make the MSM either change or continue to become increasling irrelavant.

70 Obi-Wan  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:35:32am

What has a tendency to get lost in all this is HOW the USA is ABLE to provide all this money: Our capitalist economic system. Were it not for our "evil capitalist" economic system, we would not be able to take care of ourselves, much less anyone else.

Sigh!

71 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:35:55am

#62 hs (troll)

Bush offers 1/2 of the cost of his inauguration and makes no public expression of sympathy.

A good portion of the cost of the inauguaration is paid for through donations and as to the rest of your empty point TALK IS CHEAP --- fool.

72 stuck in california  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:37:06am

#62
How much did you donate, Troll?

73 Lady Redhawk  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:37:09am

#62 hs

You are REALLY pissing me off. The amount of money we've already given to muslim nations is mind-boggling. Don't you know that? What the hell are you thinking?

74 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:37:14am

#70 Obi-Wan


Great point there!

75 ibrodsky  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:39:40am

#69

A quarter trillion is $250,000,000,000. Not sure I believe that figure, though.

76 Carolina Girl  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:40:18am

Someone needs to remind the Moonbats that the SENATE was the one that didn't approve the Kyoto Treaty - by a vote of 99 to 0, as I recall (I forget who abstained). Bush couldn't have signed Kyoto if he wanted to -- we call it checks and balances, Moonbats. You'll find it before the First Amendment you care so much about.

And I remember the incredible outpouring of aid from the world to the citizens of Florida after they were pelted by four hurricanes this year. Oh...wait...never mind.

$35 million so far from the U.S., if I read my news reports correctly. Do we have any figures from the Saudis yet?

77 Cowgirl  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:40:22am

Posted earlier today on a different thread, but pertinent on this thread as well: earlier post

After hearing the President on tv (which was excellent), followed by the inane, unrelated queries by the press, I'm sure I don't know why he bothered with anything other than a press release. Or why he bothered answering questions. Maybe he should invoke the "off-topic question rule", something like one off-topic question and the reporter is banned from the press corps for a while.

78 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:40:52am

#44 - Via NRO's The Corner, They take all forms. Including moonbats lurking as 'rational scientists.'

79 Renna  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:41:10am

Informal poll, folks.

How much have you donated (not counting your taxes) for tsunami relief?

How much do you estimate you have given in 2004 total?

What is your country?

80 jhs  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:42:43am

Why the Old Media isn't trusted

[Link: www.worldnetdaily.com...]

WaPo: It's a tag team I tell ya...

81 oldengr  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:45:02am

[Link: www.news24.com...]

We have promised $35 million, whereas the "generous" europeans - "The 25-nation EU will deliver €3m ($4.06m) in emergency aid as a start."

82 realwest  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:45:07am

AS posted on the "Huge Explosion" thread, where it was way OT:

I've written several posts in the year or so since I first started posting at LGF on the generosity of America. The following is from today's CNN.Com:

the United States spent almost $15.8 billion for "official development assistance" to developing countries in 2003. Next closest was Japan, at $8.9 billion.

That doesn't include billions more the United States spends in other areas such as AIDS and HIV programs and other U.N. assistance.

"We outmatch the contributions of other nations combined; we'll continue to do so," Bush spokesman Trent Duffy told reporters in Crawford, Texas, where the president is spending a post-Christmas vacation at his ranch.

Americans last year gave an estimated $241 billion to charitable causes -- domestic and foreign -- according to a study by Giving USA Foundation. That's up from $234 billion in 2002. The foundation did not break down how much was for domestic causes and how much for foreign.

I wonder why we don't "publicize" this generosity more often. I mean modesty is one thing, but when the bleepin' UN, and France and the "Islamic" countries attack the USA (verbally, obviously for the UN - WE provide most of the UN peacekeeping forces and for France which only uses force against third world countries like the Ivory Coast) we ought to smack them in the face with these statistics AND ask "what have you done lately?"

83 kiwiviv  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:45:08am

#62

It seems like you are the dolt, you uninformed freak. The US gives 60% of the aid in the world...you need to read a little and get a little more informed.

84 Carolina Girl  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:45:10am

#79 Renna

I have pledged $25 (more once end of month paycheck)

For all charities - $950 this year.

United States

I'd give more, but the IRS would like me to pay $3,600 because of a massive screwup on my 2002 return. I'm hoping some of that money will go to the victims, but right now I have to keep the "Service" happy.

85 Terrye  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:45:10am

Believe it or not Herbert Hoover undertook the largest foreign aid endeavor in human history after WW1 providing food and medical aid to tens of millions of Europeans and Russians. Hoover was not a politican then, but a philanthropist.

After WW2 the US once again provided food and medicine to millions of Europeans both ally and enemy. The Berlin Airlift and the Marshall Plan saved countless lives.

And what did we get for it but a kick in the ass and the sight of our flag in flames.

The Washington Post has an agenda here and it is not a fair and balnced one.

86 Powderfinger  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:46:00am

#73 Lady Redhawk

It just isn't going to be fair until we all live in mud huts and shit in a hole in the ground. As long as you have more than someone else, (except for the limousine liberals, whom we need to keep wealthy so they'll be able to bring attention to the starvation we impose on you) you are evil.

You say you worked for what you have? Oh, then you're a globalizing capitalist, which makes you doubly evil. Globalization is bad.

Now, let's have the whole world hold hands, and bend over.

/self-hating westerner

87 TMF  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:46:12am

You know hs, deep down, doesn't give a flying piss about the dead brown people.

Their just tools for him to attack the REAL evil in the world- BUSH!

To hs and his ilk, the more dead brown people the better. As long as the corpses can be tied around the neck of the evilbushitlercabal.

Admit it, hs- if your truly honest with yourself- you dont give a fuck about them, do you? Not one single tear was shed by you in response to those images of dead children, was it?

THought so.

Sicko.

88 Golem Akbar  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:46:25am

#70 Obi-wan Excellent. Of course, the European economy is going down the poop-shooter because it is starting to deplete it's capitalist savings with all the welfare it's having to pay (so many unemployed Muslims, for one).

89 remotedevice  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:47:07am

Maybe it's time Charles reviewed his grade school math textbooks.

To wit:

Julia has 40 dollars. Todd has 5 dollars. Both Julia and Todd are members of the local church. At Christmas, Julia gives 5 dollars, but Todd gives only one. Who is more generous, Julia or Todd? Explain.

90 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:47:11am

The American people will donate more money to NGO's than will the people of any European country because Americans believe that charity is an individual responsibilty while Europeans believe that it is the job of the state.

91 oldengr  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:47:17am

#76 Carolina Girl

Saudi - $10 mil, Kuwait - $1 mill

92 FlyingTigress  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:48:49am

Re #62

A sighting of "hs" has occured ... complete with a photo.

GAZE-BAIT

93 American Infidel[deleted]  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:48:57am
94 Renna  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:49:13am

#70 Obi-wan

Your post, me, standing up, applauding...

As I've said before, they don't just want us to donate so much because they feel intitled to our money, but because much of the world thinks we should pay penance for the crime of being so weathly.

95 KWH  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:49:35am

This is so stupid words fail me. Proving once again the "gimmie" theory.

96 kiwiviv  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:49:44am

#62

Bush offers 1/2 of the cost of his inauguration and makes no public expression of sympathy.

In actual fact Bush HAS made a public expression of sympathy - he has also phoned the leaders of the countries affected. The money he has pledged is ONLY THE FIRST WAVE. The Govt. is still assessing the needs and best places to send aid.

Assistance will be streaming in to these nations for years.

How typical to criticize and politicize before the waves have even settled down.

97 Semper Gumbi  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:50:36am

#76 Carolina Girl

Actually, the Senate voting 99-0 against Kyoto is a myth. What the Senate voted 99-0 on was a resolution directing the Vice-President not to enter into any agreement like Kyoto. Which the Vice-President promptly ignored. Wanna guess who the VP was?

Anyway, the Senate has never voted on the ratification of Kyoto because the President NEVER sent it to the Senate ( he knew it would never pass). The President chose to - as with many other things - leave it for whomever followed him to deal with. Care to guess who the President was?

98 TMF  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:50:48am

#87 applies to that other mentally diseased turdloaf, "remotedevice" as well.

What a fuckin' loser that guy is.

FYI

99 American Infidel[deleted]  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:51:00am
100 Sarah D.  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:51:25am

I have found listings of dead and admitted patients in Thailand if anyone needs it.

It seems to me that their server is a bit shaky, so I prefer not to post a public link here.

101 alegrias  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:51:32am

These hypocrites are the usual 1960s & Carter era Dems/MSM suspects whining about "Bush's" debt that will be "passed on to our grandchildren" and moaning about the cost of democratizing Iraq and the size of our Defense budget (which turns out to be mainly doing the heavy lifting in the humanitarian crisis business).

Remember how Kerry voted for the Defense budget before he voted against it--when much goes to alleviate human misery? Typical BS.

I'm not giving another cent to the UN if I can help it; I gave my Xmas money to wounded US troops who I consider the greatest force for good on Earth.

102 Furious J  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:52:23am

OT: Peep this Old Media Hissy-Fit by Columnist Nick Coleman, who apparently has his knickers in a wad about PowerLine being named Blog of the Year.

The Powerline guys "pretend to be family watchdogs but they are Rottweilers in sheep's clothing... pursuing a right-wing agenda cooked up in conservative think tanks funded by millionaire power brokers... They should call themselves "Powertool." They don't speak truth to power. They just speak for power... They go by "fantasy names" that are apparently "compensating for" something.
103 Lady Redhawk  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:52:31am

#89 remotedevice

Are you kidding me? What is this, troll day on LGF? Because, really, I'm not in the mood.

104 Carolina Girl  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:53:03am

#91 oldengr

Grazie - always good to have my facts. It will be interesting to see, when the final total comes down, how much individual Americans gave to the relief victims. I will wager anyone here that it comes in at more than $50 million. Because that? Is what we do.

105 ex-simple servant  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:53:10am

#62 hs

Much of the inauguration is paid for in private funds. The government portion was allocated by congress (which controls the money.) I believe it is the same amount allocated to Clinton -- actual dollars, not adjusted for inflation.

106 FlyingTigress  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:53:26am

#93 American Infidel

What scares me is the use of the word "freaky". I wonder if this 'career official' wears a string of love beads around his neck, atop the tie-dyed shirt, trailing an unusually 'sweet' scent downwind from himself.

Either that, or he just changed places with a very young (c. 1975) Jodie Foster.

107 remotedevice  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:53:56am

Hey TMF --

Clever response.

Having trouble figuring out the math question?

108 remotedevice  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:55:06am

Lady Redhawk --

Same goes for you as TMF.

Remedial math, anyone?

109 KWH  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:55:17am
Having trouble figuring out the math question?

What does it matter, they both gave. Have you?

110 TMF  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:55:27am

#102 Furious

"WHat is it about "Liberals" and their "obsession" with "quotation marks?"

"Its" "getting" "ridiculous", "really", "it is"

Must be their "lack" of "intellectual originality" and "creativity" and "wit"

111 trendsurfer  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:55:49am

Are we to take it that the rest of the world is unable to take care of itself without the help of the United States?

That seems to be a poor commentary on how the rest of the world manages itself. Perhaps they should embrace American Liberty instead of socialist utopias or corrupt dictators.

112 Renna  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:56:23am

Also note that Julia gives 5 dollars at work to local charities, and her work matches her donation. She also donates her time to the local Meals on Wheels. She gave 10 of the remaining dollars to the American Cancer Society, and 10 to the Salvation Army. She donated half her clothes and toys to Goodwill. She gives blood every month. She tutors at the local homeless shelter and records books for the blind.

113 Snidely Whiplash  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:56:31am

I guess they neglect to mention that we pay for almost all of NATO and most of the damned UN. Of course many of the European nations can pay a higher percentage. They can afford it. We've been paying out the rear to keep their sorry asses free for the past 60 years. How quickly they forget.

114 American Infidel[deleted]  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:57:33am
115 vtrtl  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:57:55am

To borrow a phrase from Inigo Montoya:

"You keep using that word [freaky]. I do not think it means what you think it means."

I for one sincerely hope the president was getting his freak on over the holidays.

116 TMF  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:58:30am

If remotedevice has 3 posts on a thread of 110 posts, what percentage of total posts will be sanctimonious retard-spew?

Please graph your answer using cartesian coordinates.

117 Sandy P  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:58:36am

I've been fighting that UN aid nonsense for about 3 years now in the blogosphere.

Claudia Rossett had some articles in the WSJ about the value of our aid over the past 3-4 years.

Collin May at Innocents Abroad had a good post about it a couple of years ago.

He's Canadian, worked for the UN and an NGO.

He's a good reference if people are interested.

IT'S ALL HOOEY FROM *THE WORLD*!

Time to walk their talk. The Euro's flying high. If they want to play, they're going to have to pay.

118 Beagle  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:58:52am

This thread needed some America-bashing troll. Right on cue: remotedevice. Ignoring the facts and figures in previous posts it detonates itself all over the thread, posting twice a minute with inane babbling.

119 alegrias  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:59:17am

Applause to India for stepping up to the plate & offering to pay for a regional Tsunami Warning System. (AP story in today's [Link: www.washingtontimes.com)...]

120 levi from queens  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:59:31am

Renna-- I'll fill in your poll by e-mail, please post an address -- but not on a public forum (to say nothing of the bandwidth cost)

121 ex-simple servant  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:00:22am

#112 Renna

Great response.

122 csva  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:00:34am

From #102 quote:

" They don't speak truth to power. They just speak for power... "

I love that saying. Everytime I read it I laugh. Just like every time I think about the UN or the fake TRUTH TO POWER democrats.

123 American Infidel[deleted]  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:01:33am
124 American Infidel[deleted]  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:02:20am
125 DouglasMcK  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:02:34am

#89

To wit:

Julia has 40 dollars. Todd has 5 dollars. Both Julia and Todd are members of the local church. At Christmas, Julia gives 5 dollars, but Todd gives only one. Who is more generous, Julia or Todd? Explain.

Scenario 1 - $5 is needed for "the gift" that is intended for a needy boy or girl of the church. What good is Todd's donation?

Scenario 2 - Julia's kids also give 5 dollars, some even give 10 dollars. Do those count as Julia's initial offering?

That being said, why does this become a contest of who gives more (quantity) vs. who gives more (percentage).

Look up the word charity. It is a voluntary offering. We (USA-government or population) are under no obligation to offer anything. When offerings/charity are scrutinized the moment they are laid on the table it means that they are no longer appreciated. When anything above 0.00% is labeled not enough, then the point is lost.

126 csva  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:03:37am

American Infidel

Loud
Office
Laugh

127 Lady Redhawk  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:04:14am

#112 Renna

LMAO! However, I think your response is far above the intellectual capacity of our logically-challenged little troll.

128 superdawg  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:04:32am

"Freaky"? Rick James would be proud.


#98 TMF
"diseased turdloaf"... new one to me...LOL for the last 5 minutes!

129 Renna  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:04:41am

levi #120

You've got mail.

130 Golem Akbar  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:04:43am

#113 Snidely Whiplash

I guess they neglect to mention that we pay for almost all of NATO and most of the damned UN

I would like to suggest we start saving some of our hard-earned tax dollars by maybe, just maybe, reducing our donations to these organizations. Or, maybe just divert a portion, say 10%, to disaster relief. Our numbers would go way up then.

(cool nic)

131 alegrias  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:05:04am

#113 Snidely Whiplash

Downsizing our military forces in EUroNATO & S. Korea regions after nearly 70 years is just another reason to love Donald Rumsfeld. Looking out for our wallet & forcing fat Euros to defend themselves. (Except in any emergency they 1-800-call USA or call USA cheap)

132 jag3  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:05:09am

#45 Lady Redhawk

I can't agree with you more, I truly can't. I wish we would even 1 year we could fix our own problems, instead of others. but like you said... Its just a dream

133 Irene NYC  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:05:16am

#89-Julia spends $20 helping to support her blind brother. Todd is unmarried, has fathered 2 children and ... Now who is the more generous? (Or are you going to posit "all things being equal", which, of course, they never are.)

You can spin and spin and spin and until you know the exact circumstances (or something close to them) there is no basis for comparison. What was the old expression, "Walk a mile in my shoes"?

#61 ibrodsky - I was referring to the following dispatch (quoted in part, below) from Ha'aretz. My read on this is that most Muslim countries don't want non-Muslim charity and aid to be too prevelant. So, you have the Iranians initially refusing American aid after the earthquake last year and now, similarly, I think it's kind of hard to argue that Sir Lankan government officials didn't know that they would really need as many trained and organized medical workers as soon possible.

They didn't have hotel rooms ready for them? Oh, give me a break. Those medical personnel probably wouldn't have slept for the first 4-5 days on the ground anyway.


From 12/27/04 Ha'aretz

Sri Lanka accepts Israel's offer to send medical supplies, but not IDF delegation

By Haaretz Staff and Agencies



A 150-member Israeli aid delegation canceled its mission to Sri Lanka yesterday after the government in Colombo refused to accept the Israeli team, Israel Defense Forces officials said.

The plane was due to touch down in Colombo for a few hours and return directly to Israel. The Sri Lankan government, however, declined the offer, saying it only needed humanitarian supplies at this time.

The Sri Lankan president's military secretary sent a notice to his foreign and defense ministries yesterday expressing support for the arrival of a smaller 50-member Israeli delegation. "We are not opposed to a plane loaded with medical supplies, food and blankets that will be accompanied by a medical team comprised of 50 IDF people, as the Israeli Foreign Ministry requested in a letter," the military secretary said.

134 Elcid  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:05:52am
The Post goes on to inform us that President Bush isn’t just “insensitive,” he’s also “freaky.”

“insensitive”
What bullshit...How many Rawandan's did Clinton watch die? How many Iraqi's?

“freaky"
Ummm, I usually smoke my cigars, what did Bill do with them?

This constant leftist drone, is laughable yet, sickening.

135 Carolina Girl  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:05:54am

#97 Semper Gumbi

Thanks. I'll never make that mistake again.

Good ol' Slick Willie. Leave a mess for others to clean up. Oh...and take the rap for.

136 oldengr  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:05:58am

#87, 107 remotedevice

Julia has 40 dollars. Todd has 5 dollars. Both Julia and Todd are members of the local church. At Christmas, Julia gives 5 dollars, but Todd gives only one. Who is more generous, Julia or Todd? Explain.

OK, Todd is more generous.

Now, who gave more aid to the church, Julia or Todd.

Granted, it is nice to be "generous" but to be scoffed at even when we are helping more is just plain ridiculous!

137 Furious J  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:07:02am
truth to power: what does that mean exactly? Perhaps I am a dufus, but I just don't get it...

It's a phrase that leftists use to laud other leftists who make a career of spouting leftist claptrap.

Curiously, when the likes of Linda Tripp really did "speak truth to power," one never heard that phrase. For that matter, the bloggers who "spoke truth to power" in exposing the forged CBS memos never got that phrase applied to them, either.

138 American Infidel[deleted]  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:07:07am
139 subpatre  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:07:17am

There's another lie... Oops, I mean misrepresentation in there. The figures are not for emergency aid, there're for "official development assistance". The USA had assistance on the ground in Indonesia less than a day from the event, before the Indonesian Vice President's survey of the destruction.

Something tells me neither that, nor the cost of our aircraft and helicopter carrier group will be credited to "official development assistance" either.

140 jag3  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:09:29am

#62 hs


TROLL

141 remotedevice  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:10:35am

Renna --

Well, now, that changes the question. You're not allowed to do that. No calculators, either.

Douglas McK --

You too. No cheating.

oldengr --

Nobody's scoffing. Just taking issue with another one of Charles' lame-brained mistakes.

142 DocDublU  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:10:53am

We must be crazy to stand for the bullsh*t the world heaps on us.

First, they tell us to stay out of their affairs. Fine. Then they beg us to help, and when we do, they complain that our help is not enough, too late, or too insensitive to their culture. Then they tell us to get the hell out, and we do. Fine. Then they beg us to save them from invaders or dictators, and we do, and then they tell us we did it wrong, or too violently, or without sensitivity to their culture. So we leave. Then they get flooded by a big wave, and we are not just expected to pitch in and save them, we are chastised for not doing it fast enough or to a large enough degree.

Does anyone see a pattern here?

Can't we just put up the metaphoric equivalent of a "We gave at the office" sign and let these bastards save themselves? You want to personally contribute, fine. After all, weren't these countries too ignorant to install the detection hardware that would have given them hours of warning of the impending tsunami? Wouldn't that be a smart thing to install if 90% of your population lives within a coconut toss of the ocean?

Brain exploding...must lie down.

143 alegrias  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:12:24am

And what's with the EUro leaders all lollygagging on muslim beaches while Bush is hacking shrubs in Texas? Schroeder, Blair in Egypt, Kohl in Sri Lanka, Chirac in Morocco?

We're fighting islamofascists while half the Euros are bathing topless on their beaches? What's wrong with this picture! This better not be the reason we're over there.

144 American Infidel[deleted]  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:12:46am
145 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:13:58am

#136 - quit look at the results damnit! /sarcasm. Some folks are more concerned about process than results - see the troll above. They'll say anything to minimize the giving, even when that giving dwarfs anything anyone else doles out. As charity.

Of course, in a situation like this, no one cares what the percentage of your income you're donating, only that you are - and here we find that some folks are complaining that the US isn't giving enough as a percentage, when, in fact, the total amount given blows away donations from every other nation on the planet.

So, while the WaPo continues to play politics, some folks get it - like the men and women of the US military who are already on the ground aiding those in need and to other members of the US military who are on the way, plus all the non-governmental US charities, some of whom are individually sending much needed supplies in quantities exceeding that of many nations.

146 DocDublU  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:14:33am

#62 hg

A muslin country? What difference does the type of cloth they use for their clothing make in this debate.

PIMF.

147 FlyingTigress  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:14:48am

#103 Lady

We're obviously getting the election-year trolls out in order to prepare for the 2005 model year trolls.

148 csva  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:14:52am

#126 csva

Do you get it?

from #102 quote:
"The Powerline guys "pretend to be family watchdogs but they are Rottweilers in sheep's clothing... pursuing a right-wing agenda cooked up in conservative think tanks funded by millionaire power brokers... They should call themselves "Powertool." They don't speak truth to power. They just speak for power... They go by "fantasy names" that are apparently "compensating for" something"

I have heard the famous TRUTH TO POWER quote and it's usually a self-important elitest lefty (usually a journalist) who is criticizing a Republician, businessman or govt official who lacks the proper world view. I read the WAPO every morning so I get the proper truth- to bad I just laugh and smile.

149 Powderfinger  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:15:24am
Just taking issue with another one of Charles' lame-brained mistakes.

Indeed you are. Oh Lizard Master, may I humbly suggest that you've erred in allowing this retarded turdloaf into the compound?

150 csva  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:17:50am

Dear csva
please edit better and use a spell checker sometimes!
It looks like you just posted a comment (#148) to yourself you right wing jerk!

151 alegrias  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:20:35am

#142 Doc DoubleU

Amen. I'm giving to our troops, Uncle Sam and that's it--not smart enough to dodge taxes or shelter measly income but darned if I'll give cash to islamofascists and their apologists. Mustn't let global income redistributers and US Bush baiters turn me into Scrooge on the fourth or fifth day of Christmas.

152 Renna  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:21:14am

Let's see. The whole point of this thread was that the 0.14% compared to the 0.92% comparison was flawed because it only counted one part of American's giving, that which is through the government, and left out the billions upon billions that we give in other ways, and I'M the one changing the question? Silly me.

153 Lady Redhawk  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:22:15am

#147 FlyingTigress

I sure hope the 2005 models are smarter and less profane than the "04s. ;-P

154 jag3  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:22:18am

Also here is my own thoughts

Why does it matter what percentage or amount that we give?
They should be happy they are getting anything!...I mean damb be grateful and stop bitchin, Noone has to give anything!

Echo 5 Golf Out

155 David2  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:24:41am

The "vacationing" President Bush. These people kill me. Anything to make their president and country look bad. These people are in a constant state of "the last and worst argument you ever had with your ex spouse". That's where their writing talents begin and end.

156 remotedevice  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:26:08am

Renna,

No, I'm afraid you've simply misunderstood the graphs. You'll have to stay after school to make up for this. You see, the two graphs represent the same information. Both show developmental aid provided by an array of countries. Neither accounts for any private-sector or other donations given by any of the listed nations.

So, yes, you're being a little silly, but math is hard, isn't it?

157 levi from queens  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:28:24am

Speak truth to power is the official motto of the PCUSA (Presbyterian Church). But they borrowed it from the Quakers.

I like the motto -- but the PCUSA website is an LLL anti-Israeli anti-Bush orgy. link Although I do not think that the official church represents its congregants very well.

I think Charles and LGF are the best example I know of the motto.

158 madawaskan  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:28:54am

#156-for the love of God-go eat peanut butter...

159 alegrias  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:28:56am

What's freaky is how much support of all kinds the rest of the world is giving to islamofascist jihadis to undermine US efforts to help them help themselves.

Sorry, I see aid to these folks as misplaced as pouring it down the Palestinian rathole.

160 Baldy  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:31:11am

I am sick of all the complaining. I knew right off the bat the millions we offered immediately were eventually going to be greatly increased (I assumed it would be at least $1B). It's only been what, 3 days or so since the calamity. It will take time to determine what needs to be done. There are areas that haven't even been looked at yet. When the President called for billions to fight AIDS, people complained it wasn't enough. Give the guy a break, MSM/Europe/Dems.

161 Lady Redhawk  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:31:49am

Renna -

Regarding #156 troll: I laughed so hard at it's post, I snorted sweet tea up my sinuses! What a yo-yo! Think we should swat it around for awhile, or ignore it?

162 deadman  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:31:53am

Speak TRUTH to power but LIES to everyone else.

163 TMF  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:32:29am

The moral of the story:

Take the US out of the picture and alot of poor people starve.

Luxembourg and Sweden ain't gonna cut it guys.

But at least they can say they were "generous", as the stench of putrid, emaciated corpses fills their cheese eating lungs...

164 Powderfinger  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:33:51am

New question:

A Lizardoid has a full and functioning brain. Remotedevice has 14 brain cells quivering in fear upon a decaying brainstem. Both read the WaPo article above. The Lizardoid finds itself slightly annoyed and mildly amused. This requires 2 dozen synapses to fire. Remotedevice has a misguided revalation, and all 14 cells swim with glee through it's murky CSF.

Who put more effort into the excercise? Which effort is more likely to create a benefit?

165 madawaskan  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:34:56am

Ah!HA! Leslie Gelb wouldn't be the truth to power gal gettin' freaky...earth to Kerry- It's over...the 60's,Vietnam,...

166 FlyingTigress  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:35:13am

#153 Lady Redhawk

Not bloody likely, I'm afraid. Many will simply be a year older and another year nastier.

Of course, my vantage point here in "The Navel of the Moonbat Universe" (formerly known as Seattle -- where even the donks at the Seattle P-I are considered by many as corporate 'tools' and counter-progressive) may bias my assessment.

167 Baldy  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:39:12am

We shouldn't be building firehouses in Iraq, when we're closing them here in the US. Wonder what multilateral nimwit said that?

168 sonofsheldon  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:39:33am

To:
United States
From:
The rest of the world:
Gimme, gimme, gimme. And them gimme more. And then, shut up and gimme more! You got it. We want it! So, gimme!

169 madawaskan  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:40:46am

Oops-Leslie is a dude who wasn't the official throwin' freaky.

170 levi from queens  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:41:02am

Developmental aid is highly unpopular among the American public. Giving through churches and foundations is highly popular. Economic growth among third world countries has been inversely-correlated to developmental aid. (I'll look for a link). Disaster aid is highly popular.

IMHO, this article is meant to guilt-trip us into confusing the sources and recipients of aid and resuming the revenue stream to the kleptocrats and the U.N. which has zilch to do with the tsunami and its victims.

171 remotedevice  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:41:25am

Powderfinger --

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, but it is also the sign of a dull wit.

172 TMF  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:45:05am

10 bux #171 cant identify the moronic irony of his post.

Any takers?

173 Renna  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:46:49am

#161 Lady Redhawk

I was going for ignore right now. I never really responded to it directly anyway, although I'll admit that is just a difference of semantics. But it is a hoot, no?

It does seem like it is almost close to figuring it out in that it understands that the charts only reflect part of contributions... So close. It almost temps me to try one more time but I've wasted enough bandwidth today. ;-)

174 Powderfinger  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:49:32am

Revokedadvice, the day I feel the need to imitate you will be the day I have .45 ACP for lunch. It's sad that you're not bright enough to tell when you're being ridiculed. Is there some charity that's helping you along with that? I've got 5 dollars, so I could give them one.

Now where's my change?

175 Dman  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:49:51am

#89, remoldickvice. By my calculations, Julia gave 5x's more than Todd in actual dollars. After they gave, Julia retained only 75% of her money while Todd retained 80% of his. Looks like Julia was more generous you illiterate twerp.

176 CommonSense  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:51:28am

#168

Not only do we feed the world, police the world now the world want's the US to be the world's welfare program.

Why is it that every country hates the US but loves the American dollar?

Why is it that around CHRISTmas a major "work of nature" hits a Islamic populated area two years in a row?

CommonSense

177 ferris  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:54:14am

One of the many, many reasons I would not make a good President is that after hearing this crap I would tell the world to screw off. "You think we're stingy? Watch this". Then I would take a pile of money originally designated for relief and start using it to light cigars.

Once again Bush and the United States must play the adult. All the little kids in the world are nipping at our ankles while we go ahead and do more to make the world a better place than the rest of them combined.

If only Kos had been talking about the UN, the EU and moonbats when he said 'Screw 'em'.

178 rabidfox  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:54:37am

What the critics don't seem to get is that: yes, the US gives a smaller share of the pie, but that the pie is much MUCH bigger. Why, oh that hated capitalism, of course. Let's go socialistic so that we can donate less but still show a much larger share of GNP.

179 Dman  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:55:54am

#175, Your calculations are wrong , dummy. (self whipping). #89 is still a twerp. Genorosity is subjective, Math is objective.

180 RickZ  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:56:09am

# 275 Dman:

But if Julia gave her $5 to the United Way, only $.50 made it to a charity. While if Todd threw his $1 into a church collection plate, 100% of the contribution would go to that church. Can we now move on to the argument of how many angels dance on the head of a pin?

181 Lady Redhawk  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 10:58:49am

Charles just made remotedevice go stand in the corner in the Coleman thread. Yay!

182 Al di Grandpa  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 11:03:26am

What is this? Chopped liver?

USMC Press Release

183 Baldy  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 11:06:40am

My grandmother used to give groceries to a poor woman she knew. One time, the woman asked, "Where are the cigarettes?" She didn't get any groceries after that. The money went to someone else.

184 composmentis  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 11:10:48am

Should anyone desire statistics on GDP for comparisons,this link is comprehensive, even if it does start with cia.

I saw somewhere the gripe that the Norwegians give almost 1% of GDP to charity, whereas the US gives less than half as much, ercentage wise. Now I ask you, would you prefer 1% of 171.7 billion or about .62% of 10.9 TRILLION DOLLARS.

It doesn't take a smart Jewish Engineer (CPA) to figure that out.

185 composmentis  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 11:12:28am

PIMF should be percentage and end ?

186 RickZ  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 11:15:40am

# 183 Baldy:

Your grandmother sounds like my Mom. When she worked at the local naval base, they used to take up a collection at Thanksgiving for a poor family and she'd buy the groceries at the commissary. For the next year, she bought them food out of her own pocket. I asked her why she did it, because we were not rolling in the dough. Her answer was simplicity itself: They're not just poor and hungry at Thanksgiving.

187 Peacekeeper  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 11:16:17am

How much did Washington Post give to the victims? What percentage of their earnings go to charity? How bout their employees ? That's the news I want.

188 J.D.  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 11:23:26am

So I was sitting in the airport Monday...waiting...and CNN had a banner at the bottom of the screen that says: Is the U.S. prepared for a tsunami? Join Aaron Brown at 10:00 PM tonight.

You could just feel it coming - "If it weren't for the evil Bush..."

189 Al di Grandpa  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 11:24:51am

Bush should go out of his way not to recognize the WaPo White
House reporter at future news conf. Something like, "Sorry John,
you guys are on my s**t list. Let's go over here". Pointing to some good guy...

He's too nice for that...or used to be.

190 oldengr  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 11:29:54am

#156 remotedevice

. . ., but math is hard, isn't it?

Actually math is easy. Even Kofi Annan's people who ran the Oil-for-Food fiasco could understand that - now what PERCENTAGE did they get as kickback?

191 J.D.  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 11:35:53am

#189 Al di Grandpa
There was the article by the poor NY Times correspondent who was to report on VP Cheney and the little thing wrote that he could never get a seat on Cheney's plane. And Helen Thomas lost her prime spot, so sometimes, what goes around comes around.

192 Renna  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 11:36:12am

#188 J.D.

It might also have to do with this need the media thinks we have to personalize it: What if it happended to you?

I don't understand why they kept pointing out that many of the tsunami victims were Westerners. As if it matters to my sense of empathy if they looked like me or spoke my language.

193 J.D.  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 11:46:58am

#192 Renna

I don't understand why they kept pointing out that many of the tsunami victims were Westerners. As if it matters to my sense of empathy if they looked like me or spoke my language.


I know. It sure makes you wonder what they're thinking. If much of anything.

194 RepJ  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 12:26:05pm

The new spin going on at the U.N is that countries should give a certain percentage of their wealth to them for 'aid'. So, they think that they deserve more from the US because we are wealthy and only give something like 2% of our money to them. Was it the communists who said 'by each their own means' or something like that? Isn't that pretty much what Jan Egeland is promoting?

195 RepJ  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 12:33:50pm

Who is the U.N. to tell the U.S.A. or any other country how much 'aid' it should be giving? It sounds more like a tax to me.

196 wiseoldfool  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 12:35:59pm

How about the hundreds of billions of dollars the U.S. spends on subsidizing the defense of Europe, Israel, Canada, Mexico, South Korea, Taiwan, Japan, Iraq, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, etc., etc?

197 jag3  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 12:55:35pm

#182 Al di Grandpa

What is this? Chopped liver?

USMC Press Release

I remember when I went to Thailand...um sorry I was daydreaming. The biggest reason the Thai Govt. is letting us come in, is the same reason they let us have Cobra Gold there every year.(CG '02 I know) is the fact that they need our money. They thrive on the US Military for our Liberty to go out and buy things. Prostatution is its leading economy, EVERY thing and everyone is for sale, just name your price. That is why they are letting us in.

When we were there our Div. Gen. tried to not let us have liberty there, and once the Thai Govt found out that they were not letting us go out, they said to either let us go out and spend money or train somewhere else. THIS IS A FACT

Echo 5 Golf Out

198 LesLein  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 1:04:03pm

I wondered how soon the LLL would blame the US (and Israel for that matter) for the tsunami. -- #1

Back in the late 1980s a typhoon caused a lot of fatalities in Bangladesh. A writer for the Post said that Reagan's policies against birth control were the cause (they wouldn't have died if they hadn't been born).

199 yank in london  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 1:05:51pm

#194 RepJ

The aid target was set at an international conference, to which the US was a party, in Rio de Janeiro in 1992 and was set at 0.7% of GDP. Most nations fail to meet this target although the US is at the bottom of the heap only recently managing to achieve 0.14%. This ranks the US well behind such nations as Norway, the Netherlans, Luxembourg, Denmark and Sweden which have all met the target. Other nations with materially better performance are Belgium (0.61%), the Republic of Ireland (0.41%), France (0.41%), Switzerland (0.38%), the United Kingdom (0.34%), Finland (0.34%) and Germany (0.28%).

Your 2.0% figure is well off the mark.

200 EddieP  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 1:08:42pm

Don't you just love it when the WaPo callls Bush Insensitive, Stingy, and Freaky. That's why I voted for him! Anytime he upsets the UN and the WaPo you know he is doing exactly the right thing.

201 LizardAbroad  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 1:28:00pm

Re: #199. Beware the groupthinkers. The statistics mentioned are government contributions. If a private American gives, it doesn't register in the statistics.

202 Firebreather  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 1:28:18pm

#199 yank in london---

You're only counting direct governmental aid. You're leaving out NGOs and a plethora of aid organizations, religious charity, private philanthropy...the combined totals of all that you have left out not only dwarf total government aid, but dwarf per capita (privately given) aid in Europe and elsewhere. In other words, Euroweenies never dip into their own pocketbooks, but Americans do.

203 Ral  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 1:29:16pm

You forget all they need is enough for a headline 'Bush has to defend himself against...' which makes the story have a lot more weight than it should.

204 barco  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 1:33:20pm

We can argue about foreign aid all day long. The US gives about .11% of its GDP as foreign aid. This makes the US among the least generous developed countries in the world. The foreign aid myth is probably one of the biggest myths in US foreign policy.

205 Firebreather  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 1:34:58pm

Euroweenies castigate America (which leads the world in total aid by a very wide margin) by selectively applying the "percentage of GNP" statistic. Well, then why not apply that logic to the argument about pollution? Per capita, Euroweenies, Canucks and Aussies pollute the environment about as much as Americans...but that wouldn't serve the purpose of poking America in the eye...so in this case, Euroweenies and other Ameriphobes focus on TOTAL pollutive emissions, by which measure America stands alone. So why not total aid? Why doesn't America's military budget (used to build up sick societies in Afghanistan, Iraq and elsewhere) count as aid? America's bases in Europe and North Asia, protecting Euroweenies, Japanese and Koreans? Not aid? If Bill Gates provides a billion dollars to private aid organizations, why isn't that counted as aid?

206 Firebreather  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 1:44:48pm

#204--barco

Totally illogical...again, like yank in london, you're only counting direct government aid. Why is it not American aid when private American individuals make huge contributions, when private citizens give to the Red Cross, to development projects? America makes huge shipments of food to ward off starvation in stricken regions, provides free and affordable generic medicines, free immunization programs...that have saved tens of millions of lives in the developing world. French, Germans, and other Euroweenies let their governmens dictate all terms of their lives to them...and they disengage themselves (as individuals) from the aid/relief effort, leaving everything to the EU, the UN, a corps of supposedly erudite policymakers, whatever. How undemocratic, to cede one's individual sovereignty, the responsibility to do something positive, to the state. But that's the herding instinct, groupthink in a nutshell. The twin pillars of European diplomacy: Greed and cowardice.

207 Athos  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 1:49:33pm

#204 barco

We can argue about foreign aid all day long. The US gives about .11% of its GDP as foreign aid. This makes the US among the least generous developed countries in the world. The foreign aid myth is probably one of the biggest myths in US foreign policy.

Another intellectually bankrupt position.

So, who died and made the % of GDP the end all be all of foreign aid while ignoring ACTUAL funds delivered by America for aid. Add into the amounts that are also delivered on a private basis - and it's not even close. Let's hear more socialistic wealth redistribution tripe...

Your position is the debating standpoint of covering your eyes and going blah blah blah blah when someone produces the 2nd graph.

208 Firebreather  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 1:50:30pm

France is providing next to nothing in the current relief effort; ditto for Germany. The Japanese and Aussies are coming up big. America always does. Sick, retrograde socialist societies in Western Europe, supposedly paragons of moral enlightenment and charitable giving, aren't doing shit (other than throwing spitwads at America). What a shocker. A bunch of petulant, pouting faultfinders who conversely have no solution to offer themselves.

209 Firebreather  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 1:53:31pm

barco--

Why does America have to foot the bill for 25% of the UN's budget? Why does Western Europe have 3/5 of the Security Council seats? WTF has Western Europe or Canada done lately to advance democracy and ease suffering in the developing world?

210 Lawrence Schmerel  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 1:53:48pm

Jan Egeland was on NPR this evening backpedaling.

Paraphrasing: "Everyone has actually been very generous. It is just my job to say that whatever more wealthy people are giving to less wealthy people is not enough. What do you expect? I am a socialist."

211 jag3  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 1:53:52pm

They hate us as Americans, but want us for our money.

212 Firebreather  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 2:00:57pm

Athos--

It's not worth our time trying to force facts on tiny, brainwashed minds that are permanently padlocked. Ameriphobia is a religion for these people, something about which they are fanatically sincere. Nothing will ever persuade them. They parrot the opinions of others, parrot received ideas...are incapable of objective, rational, independent thinking. Part of it is laziness, part of it is in-born, native stupidity. The eternally credulous will believe the moon is made of bleu cheese if the MSM/university academics tell them so. Allow them their fantasies; it makes them feel alive and real, gives them a goal, a purpose in life.

213 Firebreather  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 2:05:51pm

Jan Egeland, as I mentioned on another thread, enjoys sodomizing himself with a bathroom plunger.

214 Thom  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 2:10:46pm

Not that there's anything wrong with that ...

215 Firebreather  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 2:11:05pm

Guess wanker in london and falco (rock me amadeus?) are just typical leftist, hit-and-run artists, incapable of debating the facts, prisoners to their blind, absolutist pronouncements and fervently held liberal dogmas. how...typical and utterly boring.

216 Thom  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 2:12:46pm

#204 barco

We can argue about foreign aid all day long. The US gives about .11% of its GDP as foreign aid.

Yeah, but that GDP is humongous.

So sit on it and rotate.

217 Firebreather  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 2:13:34pm

Thom,

I think this thread is officially dead...2 moonbats killed it and everyone got bored & moved on.

218 Thom  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 2:18:43pm

#217 Firebreather

Oh well. It's a pretty lame meme as memes go. I'm surprised those leftie goons actually tried to defend it.

This will go down in history with the infamous "7 minutes" ...

Whatta buncha lamewits.

219 Sandy P  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 2:38:38pm

barco's statement just goes to show he doesn't understand America and how we work:

Just so we're all up-to-date on US contributions:

...Natsios said the Paris organization’s figures overlook a key factor - the billions more Americans give each year in private donations. Americans gave an estimated $241 billion last year to charitable causes - domestic and foreign - according to a study by Giving USA Foundation. That’s up from $234 billion in 2002. The foundation did not break down how much was for domestic causes and how much for foreign. "That’s a European standard, this percentage that’s used," Natsios said. "The United States, for 40 years, has never accepted these standards that it should be based on the gross national product. We base it on the actual dollars that we spent. The reason is that our gross national product is so enormous. And our growth rates are so much higher than the other wealthy nations."


---

We're not about the State, barco.

220 Duke Newcombe  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 2:41:42pm

Well, the per capita statistic IS the more valid one, and the media are correct to focus more attention to it than the absolute dollar amounts. Isn't it natural to expect a country that has 5 times the population of another country to give 5 times as much aid (assuming they are both first world nations)?

And every country in the world gives aid through private donations as well as government assistance, so the contribution of European countries is understated just as is the American one.

221 Bubble Girl  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 2:50:34pm

Barco

If you are not a US citizen it is none of your fucking business how much our country gives or does not give.

222 Sandy P  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 2:53:04pm

yank - where does Bill Gates fit in? How much has he alone given Africa? (And the screaming from the NGOs when he tried to introduce good business practices and accountability.)

Does this topic come up for discussion where you are from time to time?

You need ammo, you're believing the spin.

Use Bono and the African water wells as the example. I forgot which country, Tanzania? 24 wells would have given the populace clean water. Each well $1 million = $24 million.

So what does he do? Goes to Congress to nickel-and-dime the American taxpayer.

What is the goal? To provide clean water quickly - or is it?

Wouldn't it have been more efficient and less expensive to get 23 of his rich rock star friends to donate $1 million apiece? But what does he do? He flies around the world begging for help.

But he prefers the sslllooowww bureaucracy method. With some glory for himself. BTW, is he picking up the cost of his jet-setting or am I as the taxpayer who funds the UN?

To me, that's the difference between the US and the socialistic world.

223 barco  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 3:15:19pm

Those of you who are focusing on the pure dollar amount are missing the point. Remember what Jesus said about the poor woman who gave a little money but her money represented a larger portion of her wealth?

224 barco  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 3:22:43pm

I am not denying that there are many generous Americans citizens giving money for relief in the developing world. That is great and we thank them for their support. However, using the argument that private donations justify the US government giving a smaller perchentage than other countries give as aid is just plain selfish.

225 SwampWoman  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 3:23:25pm
Gelb said what appears to be a grudging increase in effort sends the wrong message, at a time when dollar totals matter less than a clear statement about U.S. intentions. Noting that the disaster occurred at a time when large numbers of people in many nations — especially Muslim ones such as Indonesia — object to U.S. policies in Iraq, he said Bush was missing an opportunity to demonstrate American benevolence.

Hmmm, we have a name for folks that want money in return for love down here. It's called "whores".

So Geld said the Islamic nations are a bunch of prostitutes, huh? Well, far be it from me to disagree with that assessment.

226 SwampWoman  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 3:26:18pm

#224 barco

I am not denying that there are many generous Americans citizens giving money for relief in the developing world. That is great and we thank them for their support. However, using the argument that private donations justify the US government giving a smaller perchentage than other countries give as aid is just plain selfish.

Um, Barco, that governmental money you are prattling on about IS my money, as well as money belonging to other taxpayers.

I prefer to donate MY money in a manner in which I want it donated, and do not wish for the government to take it from me and do it on my behalf.

227 fmfnavydoc  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 3:27:24pm

As an individual that has lived overseas, courtesy of the US Navy, traditional American behavior in a time of a crisis or disaster usually does not go over well in other countries, especially in Asia...for instance, it is appropriate to leave a tip after eating at a resturaunt here in the States, but in most Asian countries, leaving a tip in a resturaunt is the equivalent of "the cook sucks, send him back to school". America's response to this horrible disaster had to be appropriate - we're dealing with different people with different customs - some that have only been free of colonial rule for a short period of time. To barge in, "take charge", throw money around and insult people is not the way to do business in the world...

As for the LLL and Uncle Bill - give us a break from the "I feel your pain" BS...until you have been through the hell that these people have been through, you don't know Jack about the pain that these people are living in now...

228 barco  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 3:35:19pm

Here is a great article courtesy of the National Catholic Weekly:

[Link: www.americamagazine.org...]

As a side note, I am tired of the Catholic Church being one of the number one targets of the CIA in Latin America. Remember Oscar Romero and his mission to help improve the lives of the poor. Of course this plan of action proved a threat to US investors so he was removed.

Remember, improving the lives of those in poor countries can have negative effects on the prices of your stocks. Oh well...

229 Earth2moonbat  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 3:37:10pm

#224 barco a.k.a. ditzhead:

Read the charts. The U.S. is #1 in amount of money given. The fact that the euros give smaller amounts, which constitute larger percentages of their GDP means exactly one thing: that their socialist economies are sick and weak. Don't blame the U.S. for doing it right, blame them for sabotaging their own economies.

230 Sandy P  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 3:38:29pm

hogwash, barco, it's never enough.

Nice try using Jesus.

Fact is, we're not just focusing on the pure $ amount. What about the Marines, AWAC, AC-130s full of supplies and ships? Who's picking up that tab?

What about the clothing, drugs, equipment and materiel that will be donated?

Tell you what. you want the US to give X amount?

Fine by me, no more personal/corporate/NFP/inkind donations.

We should just cut a check, monitor the money trail and keep the rest for the citizens of the US.

Unfortunately, the argument could be made that since "the world" keeps harping on our deficit, the bank's closed...

231 azul93gt  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 3:39:51pm

#89 remotedevice 12/29/2004 11:47AM PST

Julia has 40 dollars. Todd has 5 dollars. Both Julia and Todd are members of the local church. At Christmas, Julia gives 5 dollars, but Todd gives only one. Who is more generous, Julia or Todd? Explain.

If I was the needy recipient I would no doubt get more aid from Julia's $5 that Todd's $1. Afterall I really need money. The last thing Todd needs to be doing is criticizing Julia's much larger and more important contribution. Todd should get some perspective.

If Billie gave $.05 out of his $.10 would he then be the most "generous" by your standard?

232 Rayra[deleted]  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 3:44:40pm
233 fmfnavydoc  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 3:51:02pm

One other thing to point out...

This past year, when Florida was hit by the three hurricanes...did any of our "friends" step up and offer assistance? I remember seeing assistance after 9/11, but there were foreign victims then...

Nice to see that Germany is stepping up, but Frenchie is too good to help out...maybe there is not an opportunity for them to hop on the gravy train like there was in Iraq when Saddam was in power...

234 Rayra[deleted]  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 3:56:38pm
235 barco  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 4:04:58pm

#229


Are you kidding me?!

"Their socialist economies are sick and weak?!"

Any study of history, government, population, and economics will show you that individual countries of Europe simply cannot produce the GDP of the USA. It has nothing to do with your false labeling of Europe as "socialist." Last time I checked Europeans own private property and can vote.

In fact, some of the most liberal economies of the world have produced horrible living conditions for the majority of their populations.

236 composmentis  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 4:08:22pm

#232 Rayra

Please see the link posted at #184. GNP/GDP is what counts.
Check out the numbers for US vs. any other country. Takes a little time, but the numbers are there.

237 TMF  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 4:13:16pm

Bottom line:

Im a homeless guy.

"Joe" has $300.00 to his name and offers me $100.00.

"Bill" has $10,000 to his name and offers me $500.00.

I can only take one.

Which one do you take- the more or less "generous" offer?

238 TMF  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 4:16:12pm

Bottom line:

If the US withdrew all of it's foreign aid from the world: MAJOR impact.

If Belgium, Denmark, Sweden, Luxembourg and Holland withdrew all of their foreign aid from the world: ZERO impact.

Suck on that for a while, schmucko

239 azul93gt  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 4:25:57pm

The USA or the EU are ultimately going to give out what they feel is warranted or what they can afford to give. If the EU whiners are going to criticize the USA for making significantly greater contributions, which happen to be a smaller percentage of the USA's wealth then the USA can point out that it is not our fault that you have weaker socialistic economies that can not make equivalent contributions.

240 barco  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 4:26:39pm

#238

Yes, if the US withdrew its foreign aid it would have a huge negative impact on the world.

241 levi from queens  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 4:32:26pm

Sorry to repeat myself-- but the graphs are about "overseas development aid" which is pretty much money down the toilet and which most Americans oppose. Americans are famously generous with disaster aid, both public and private. ODA is really just $ for the U.N. and the kleptocrats. I am ashamed we give so much of it.

242 DianaC  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 4:44:46pm

The USA and Australia have given the most so far. According to last nights news, Europe has given the equivalent of $160,000 per country and the rich Arab nations have given next to nothing.

Perhaps Bush is pondering on the fact that, had this happened in the US or Australia, Muslim clerics from Indonesia and Malaysia would have been screeching publically about how Allah had cleansed the infidels for our 'percecution of Muslims'.

243 Powderfinger  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 4:47:08pm

#237 TMF

I believe that you're obligated to take Bill's $500 and give it to Joe. Or, give it to the government for their assurance that Joe will realize the full benefit of Bill's largesse.

244 azul93gt  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 4:49:07pm

#241 levi from queens 12/29/2004 06:32PM PST

The MSM is counting on the average person's ignorance of those facts in furtherance of their big government high tax Democrat agenda.

245 Irene NYC  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 4:52:24pm

#235 Barco -

Last time I checked Europeans own private property and can vote.

Since at least the Great Social Debates of the 1930's the Europeans have known that socialism cannot produce an economy that could possibly compete with capitalism. So, they changed the name of the game. They don't care about who owns private property, they just tax and redistribute to "equalize." But you knew that, right?

246 LesLein  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 4:55:04pm

What's so great about foreign aid anyway? In many cases it's middle class and poor Americans subsidizing rich dictators or bureaucrats.

With relatively open import markets and its multinational corporations America helps the people of other countries gain employment. Our productive economy fuels prosperity in the world. Our military assistance prevents a holocaust in the Middle East. The liberation of much of Europe, Afghanistan, and Iraq had a great humanitarian impact. Our Navy keeps the sea lanes open for trade. Our satellites provide GPS services to other countries free of charge. Our charities provide international assistance with much lower overhead cost than what's found in government agencies.

247 barco  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 5:01:52pm

#245

European governments certainly do not tax to "equalize." Compared to the world as a whole, Europe's economies are quite free and would be considered open markets. You make it sound as if Europe is following Havana's lead or something...simply not true. Actually, the EU is working to eliminate many economic obstacles and open trade.

248 hal-law  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 5:29:00pm

REGARDING GDP AND THE MEANING OF STATISTICS, I THINK JESUS SAID IT BEST:


Mar 12:41 And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.


Mar 12:42 And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.


Mar 12:43 And he called [unto him] his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:


Mar 12:44 For all [they] did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, [even] all her living.

249 Gang of One  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 5:57:58pm

Hal-law #248

I don't get it. Jesus and his disciples were a traveling show, not the victims of a natural disaster.

What's your point?

Regarding the other indiginant macnuggets [you know who you are] in the end, it is our money, and don't tell us how to spend it. We have, to paraphrase the saying, more wealth and geneoristy in our little finger than you have in your entire body.
This means we are doing something right and you guys are not, if we give more than you without having to go digging deep into our pockets.

You guys sound like sour-grapes eating, pillow biting, bed-wetters. So, piss off and enjoy the next four years American sacrifice.

250 Rayra[deleted]  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 7:20:33pm
251 Rayra[deleted]  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 7:26:16pm
252 Bubble Girl  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 8:40:41pm

I'm sorry, I don't understand a word of what Jesus said. Sorry. And I no longer care what other countries think about us, or say about us, it just doesn't matter. I know we are doing and giving more than any other country, we always have. It's not for "show" either. It is out of true generousity. And please, do not bring up God at a time like this. It is absurd. I am sure thousands prayed to God to save them and they died, or their children died. Then the ones who prayed and where saved praise God for saving them. What was wrong with the ones who died? Not Godly enough to get saved?

253 Sandy P  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:12:27pm

but we're not casting money into the Treasury.

Can you imagine the outcry if we did? Just sat on it?

What are you LLLs, blue-staters trying to reach across the divide?

Quoting Scripture to make your point?

Please.

254 Sandy P  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:15:24pm

--It has nothing to do with your false labeling of Europe as "socialist." Last time I checked Europeans own private property and can vote. --

Like how frogistan decides who gets on the ballot?

Please.

Have you been paying attention to when the estate tax kicks in in Britain?

If they're not socialist, what are they?

After they stop free-riding on our military, aid and drugs, then we'll see.

255 BattleofthePyramids  Wed, Dec 29, 2004 9:35:48pm

Re. no. 228 barco:

When the catholic church stops supporting communists and terrorists then it will no longer be necessary to target them, as you put it.

As for the larger point about charity: the US owes the countries affected by the tidal wave exactly nothing. Mulims everywhere cheered on 9/11, so the US should be in no hurry to help them. As for the non-muslims, why can they not help themselves? India, for example, could easily afford tidal-wave warning systems, if they wanted one.

256 LesLein  Thu, Dec 30, 2004 3:35:56am

#254 and others --

The Wall Street Journal and the Heritage Foundation publish an index of economic freedom. While the U.S. rates high, there are a few European countries that rank higher. Please check the link.


[Link: www.heritage.org...]

257 contra  Thu, Dec 30, 2004 3:41:45am

Truly fascinating! We as the U.S.A. can NEVER do enough, fast enough for EVERY other NATION! Here is an idea: Pull all the foreign aid from all the countries that are against us and funnel those funds to SE Asia.
That would shut everyone one up.
Oh yeah, the UN and the French? Where are they?

258 LemonJoose  Thu, Dec 30, 2004 5:58:41am

Not to mention the fact we are sending an aircraft carrier, several other warships, and helicopters to help out. That doesn't show up in any dollar total. How much do Europe & the UN think it would cost to rent the services of those ships and all of the crew members for several weeks/months?

Others have laready pointed out that the published figures only count official government support, and do not include all of the donations made to private charitable organizations.

I would like to see a chart of per-capita private charitable donations. My guess is that in socialist, over-taxed Europe, people assume that the government will take care of relief efforts with all of the tax dollars extracted from the populace, and thus their private donations would be minuscule compared to the US.

259 LthrNck  Thu, Dec 30, 2004 6:27:01am

From each according to their ability, to each according to their need. The fact that the hardest working citizens in the world do not simply hand over their paychecks truly bothers the LLL. Their facade is slipping...

260 Al di Grandpa  Thu, Dec 30, 2004 6:35:11am

OT: My grandson Cpl. Pat, USMC is among these guys.

Marines to Sri Lanka

God bless 'em all.

Semper Fi

261 lawhawk  Thu, Dec 30, 2004 6:38:54am

#260 - strangely, the Sri Lankans don't appear to have any problems with the US Marines coming ashore, but had a problem with the 150 IDF soldiers who were going to provide assistance a couple of days ago. Makes you wonder what the Sri Lankans were opposing and on what grounds.

It certainly couldn't be the fact that foreign soldiers were coming ashore to help. Which leaves us with the obvious...

262 Al di Grandpa  Thu, Dec 30, 2004 6:54:22am

#261 lawhawk

I'm not sure the facts are all in on that IDF story. I read their was some misreporting. And the Marines have not yet landed as far as I know, but they will not be allowed to run willy-nilly around the country side. The locals will pretty much call the shots.

263 steve miller  Thu, Dec 30, 2004 7:14:28am

Along the same lines of the WaPo is the NYT's opinion that we are stingy. Reasoning? "We" could give more. No, what the NYT means is that everyone ELSE can give more - where's the donations from the NYT? Oh, wait - what they mean is that the US Government should TAKE from us involuntarily & then GIVE to the victims w/o tracking or accountability.

I know they're just liberals. But do any liberals THINK?

264 wanumba  Thu, Dec 30, 2004 6:23:31pm

Has this been brought up earlier in the postings? I cruised quickly..
the point is:
Governments all have procedures they follow for disasters.
Very simplistically...
When a disaster strikes, the US ambassador on the spot can declare a disaster emergency which immediately releases a certain amount of cash to be used. Very helpful - speedy and on site.
The ambassador then has time to ask for more money if needed.
It appears that the money the papers are sniffing about is really that up front cash injection. It takes time to figure out and budget for what is needed for the short term, medium term and long term. That can be worked on while the up front money is being used.
With so many countries involved, several US ambassadors certainly put in emergency declarations to get cash to the countries, which were honored.
The press is being either very ignorant about how this works or very misleading. Take your pick.
No stinginess. Because of this system, the US is usually the FIRST to respond effectively.

265 dr_dog  Fri, Dec 31, 2004 4:52:39am
Also note that these graphs only display “developmental” aid from the US government; American donations to non-governmental charities, which dwarf governmental handouts, are not included.

Excellent point. I read an article lately about how Americans' charitable donations are much larger per capita than Canadians' (and by extension, Europeans'). I'm not sure if they were including foreign and domestic charities, but it seemed to suggest that people without generosity imposed upon them by the state tend to be more generous. Er.. Surprise.

266 guinsPen  Fri, Dec 31, 2004 5:36:52am

wapodopes


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