The ends justify the means.

Let me repost my earlier fisk, if I may.

Corey Pein basically relies on the time-machine defense, "Until you can rule out the possibility that someone sent a windows computer into the past to create the memos, you can't prove that they aren't authentic." In other words, so long as there is any possibility, however remote, that the memos are genuine, they must be treated as such.

And then there's this:

A correspondent writes that it is loony to compare Bush to Hitler as Burkett once did. Fair enough. But Burkett was tarred for saying something that other liberals do all the time, loony or not. And that was unfair.

Ah, so if any number of liberals are screaming "Bush Is Hitler," any individual screaming "Bush is Hitler" can be excused.

When Powerline compares CJR's standard of reporting to what he believes CBS's was, i.e., that I never dealt with the bloggers' criticisms, never interviewed living witnesses to the story, and never questioned Burkett’s credibility, he is simply incorrect. I did all of the above and more.

Which is, of course, asserted with no evidence offered.

And, where would liberal journalism be without the obligatory self-pity party.

Indeed, the flood of mail, the bulk of which is no more than personal attacks, confirms much of what I wrote.

My enemies are mean! I got mean emails! Wa-a-a-a-a-a-a-h!

Whatever they decide about the documents, I am confident in my piece.

In other words, everybody is entitled to their (ignorant) opinion.

So why do we need journalists then?

A bit OT:

North Korea Issues Wartime Guidelines For Attack By U.S.

South Korea -- North Korea has ordered its citizens to be ready for a protracted war against the United States, issuing guidelines on evacuating to underground bunkers with weapons, food and portraits of leader Kim Jong Il...When North Koreans evacuate to underground facilities, they should make sure that they take the portraits, plaster busts and bronze statues of Kim and his parents so that they can "protect" them in a special room, the guidelines say.

Does this really need a comment?

We now return you to your regularly scheduled reality.

This Corey Pein, in nothing butt an ass, sort of like a Pain in the ass, butt more like a journalistic (or jingoistic), hemmaroid.

He doesn’t deign to answer any of the points in my response

Nor does he answer my logical rebuttal of his analysis.

I am dismayed that in the flood of responses to my work, many critics are merely repeating what their favorite blogs say instead of making up their own minds.

Typical LLL. You're only thinking for YOURSELF if you agree with him.

Pein-in-the-ass is such a weasel.

#1 song_and_dance_man

Tsk tsk tsk! I hope your boss isn't monitoring your Web surfing today!

Anyone who belives that "fake but accurate" horse-shit is Black Hole Stupid (pat. pend.)

This boy clearly suffering from a severe case of Bush Derangement Syndrom.
It does not dawn on him that a raging liberal newscaster could have a bias against Bush.

And I encourage anyone to go back, read the blogs and the clips — or do the reporting, make the phone calls, knock on the doors — and draw their own conclusions.

And if only Pein would follow his own advice, why do we have to do the reporting, why can't he make the phone calls, knock on doors, lazy, lazy, lazy...

**My reponse was not my own but from the blog/ sheeesh

Well young mr. Corey Pein ought to be a fine addition to the MSM once he graduates. He already has the ability to ignore the facts in favor of the speculation.

Unless you can prove that I am not the Queen of the Astral Unicorns, then I am - to paraphrase.

When Pein-in-the-ass said, "Whatever they decide about the documents, I am confident in my piece", wasn't there an editting error committed?

Shouldn't it read, "Whatever they decide about the documents, I am confident in my piece OF LYING CRAP"? I think such honest introspection among such jaundiced "journalists" is a healthy thing. It would make them better editors down the road.

Facts, facts! Quit bothering Pein with facts!

He wouldn't recognize a fact if it was caught in his zipper!

Listen to this moron:

Whatever they decide about the documents, I am confident in my piece.

LOL It doesn't matter what the facts are, I *feel* confident in my piece. Waaa!

Will someone please call PETA and tell then Corey PAIN is beating some poor dead horse with a 2 x 4?

Yeah, we're all Charles' Yes-Men, that's right. We get our marching orders every morning, and our check from Halliburton once a week. Dan Rather was pilloried by the wingnuts on the Right, blah, blah, blah.

Typical liberal mantra -- repeat even discredited crap long enough and people will believe it.

Corey Bubba - you don't get it. You're MSM and we don't live there anymore. We have PROVED the documents are not authentic for the time and place they supposedly originated. In any court, it's now up to your side to offer evidence otherwise. You can't - got it?

I'm not sure of the statutes about slandering a dead man, but if I were the Colonel's family, I would sue CBS, Dan Rather and Mary Mapes outright. Alas, I have no practical experience in personal injury lawsuits except from the defense end.

Doh!

There really is an alternate Universe. Need new research ASAP, need greatest minds to come up with a way to get through to these Moonbats... Anyone know Moonbateleese?

His "work"?!?

I knew the education system was turning out underachievers at a record pace, but man!

Marching orders? *checks pockets* Charles, are you holding out on us newbies?

I am dismayed ...

[cue Lizardettes]

[5 ... 4 ... 3 ... 2 ... ]

Feeelingsss woah woah woah Feeelingsss

Indeed, the flood of mail, the bulk of which is no more than personal attacks, confirms much of what I wrote.

If everybody says I am stupid, it proves I am a genius.

#21 Bubble Girl

I have found speaking moonbatelese accompanied by use of a cattle prod more than effective...also assists in their shared sense of victimization...

#7 zombie:

Bravo! I figure that Pein will sidestep your logical and persuasive posting and instead claim that it is the bias of the blogosphere that has led you to conclude that just because the chances of something occurring are beyond exceedingly rare (like a typewriter was used to make the memos), doesn't mean that it couldn't have happened. Heck the chances could be 1 in 1 google and some folks who think 'Fake but Accurate' was good enough, will latch onto those odds to continue bogus and forged attacks on the President.

And, as you said, no one has ever come forward with a reproduction made by a typewriter of that era as would be found in the TANG. Which should be sufficient in a court of law as to establish that there is no correlation between 1970s era typewriters and the documents proffered by CBS. After all, the onus is on CBS to produce their authenticity, not anyone else.

The Other Les-

Also this has been the case for over a year now:

China has deployed troops along the border with North Korea, it confirmed yesterday, in a sign of growing concern over its neighbour's social and economic breakdown.

So I guess all those crappy Chinese products imported to Walmart might not be so bad after all.

maybe this fella has managed to set himself up in his very own little "vector space" LOL HE'S A LEGEND IN HIS OWN HAND.

Fake but Accurate.

Toaster Related Deaths at an All-Time High

All about the same to me.

MIke7411

In Corey Pein's younger days...

Editor: Corey, you're saying the moon is made of cheese. Did you talk with anyone at NASA about that?

Corey: Whatever they decide about the moon, I am confident in my piece.

LOL at Columbia, no less!

"Just because you can produce a documents similar to the Killian memos very quickly on the computer does not mean the Killian memos are fake."

ahhh, yes it does.

When forensic experts look at evidence, they compare the results to what they can reproduce. This is exactly how evidence becomes proof.

Some questions for Cory:

1. Name one forensic document expert (i.e., not a Kerry-backing typewriter repairman) who will vouch that these documents are authentic.  Also, what is the consensus among forensic document experts?

2. Does C-BS "news" use of Kerry campaign vice-chair Ben Barnes, and documented Bush-hater Bill Burkett as sources to back forged documents constitute defensible "reporting"?  Does it constitute "reporting" at all?

3. How long has Columbia been teaching/endorsing the 'Fake But Accurate' journalism technique?

Thank you.
 

Hey Charles, won't you be embarrased when the BLUE RIBBON CBS Panel says the exact same thing as Corey Pein, and "proves" him right.

/flame on

#32 Buck

Yeah really - he just disproved his own argument. If it would have been difficult to reproduce them, there might be some wiggle room. I'm glad for the sake of litigants everywhere Corey did not decide to become a lawyer.

#23 godfrey

Well, if you can't get the Halliburton check, there's always that lunatic on late-night TV with his "Big Book of Government Bucks" wherein you get $5,000 for this, that and the other.

I wish an enterprising government official would order Mr. Dementia's book and go through it, systematically closing every one of those loopholes.

repeating what their favorite blogs say instead of making up their own minds.

It is inconceivable to the left that anyone could make up their own mind and then agree with "their favorite blog."

One often uses the words of others because they put your own thoughts into words better.

To the left, when two or more people hold the same opinion, it can only be because ONE did the thinking and the other(s) mindlessly agreed. So if 60 million people loudly voice an opinion, 59.999999 mil are just "sheeple. "

Unless, the two or more hold the same opinion as the leftist. Then they are all thinking for themselves.

# 35 Carolina Girl

*groan*

You get Halliburton checks, too?

*promethean fist shaken at unfair Lizardoid Master*

#26 Carolina Girl

LOL - Will head out to Big R and get me one...Grizzly Bear Pepper Spray is also effective...gets their attention, right away...

All criticism must seem like persecution to him, after spending years sheltered in the one-party state that is American academia.

I sent Mr. Pein an email, which no doubt will be disregarded as a "personal attack."
---

Mr. Pein,

You wrote: "I am dismayed that in the flood of responses to my work,
many critics are merely repeating what their favorite blogs say
instead of making up their own minds."

Are you saying that those who disagree with your conclusions *aren't*
making up their own minds? I certainly hope not. We all have access to
the same evidence you do. The suggestion that legions of readers
aren't capable of coming to their own conclusions without being told
what to think by right-wing bloggers is highly insulting. Not to
mention arrogant and downright wrong.

-
Dorothy Gray
Atlanta, GA

#38 Bubble Girl

Grizzly Bear Pepper Spray is also effective...gets their attention, right away...

But only when you wear little bells to let them know you're in the area ... ;-)

He will fit right in in the media. In 45 years of consulting I have never been quoted correctly by a reporter. I have also noticed that unless they plagerize a written release they cannot get it right. My conclusion is that ninety nine percent are just plain stupid. They are also typically non-technically oriented and illogical. He will fit right in.

#40 D. Gray

(until I saw your signature, I thought "it's Dorian!")

Great, great response.

"Whatever they decide about the documents, I am confident in my piece."

hmmm... maybe he's not talking about his writing...

Corey's apologism (espoused by many post-modern journaljizm school grads) foists the specious syllogism-- masquerading as skepticism-- that "absence of a evidence is not evidence of absence."

Corey's piece shows a profound misunderstanding of evidence and empirical science. Absence of evidence certainly is no proof of absence -- there aren't any empirical proofs in the mathematical sense -- but it is evidence of absence. That is, it does not falsify absence, and in fact gives good reason to suspect absence.

Just how good this evidence of absence is, depends on how hard evidence of presence was sought. If we try really (really!) hard to find evidence of life on Mars, using every technique we can think of, and yet we fail to do so, this is indeed strong evidence that there is indeed no life on Mars.

Perhaps Corey can convince NASA to explore the possibility of locating CBS's mythical typewriter on Mars?

I submit the only thing absent in Corey's piece is evidence of persuasive writing skills.

#41 TenRing

I assume you know how to tell Grizzly poop from black bear poop.

What would he say if CBS doesn't release the full report? Would he cry and demand that it be released or will he make up some BS excuse?

#44 Cain

hmmm... maybe he's not talking about his writing...

Does he have the same "genitalia issues" as Nick Coleman? The world wonders.

#41

#38 Bubble Girl

Grizzly Bear Pepper Spray is also effective...gets their attention, right away...

But only when you wear little bells to let them know you're in the area ... ;-)

Yes, nothing like letting a hungry bear know just where you are, tinkling your little bell, BTW, Bear Experts say if one is stalking you, don't lay down into ball, scream at it, run like hell...

They are also typically non-technically oriented and illogical. He will fit right in.

From my local paper article on nanotechnology

It is very water absorbent (hydrophobic for those wanting to expand their technical vocabulary).

Did anyone notice that he went to the same undergrad school as Rachel Corrie? Evergreen State seems to turn out all manner of nincompoops.

Sunday I drove my grandson to the beach in Lincoln City. Going through McMinnville, I spied a flock of moonbats complete with "Bush Lied" signs etc.

I stopped across the street where the Boy Scouts were doing a christmas tree pickup drive and got my trusty Mavica out and snapped a few shots. The lady who was volunteering with the Boy Scouts asked why I was taking pics and I had a chance to tell her about moonbats and LGF. It was great. She thought the moonbat label fit them exactly.

#51
... and it's never to early to remind folks at Evergreen College that there's only 74 internet shopping days remaining to celebrate Saint Pancake's Day! ... don't wait... reserve your delicious and FLAT IDF pizza today!

comission

So proofreading isn't this guy's thing either.

Coreys Thesis at Evergreen is curious also...

Check out this post from the last thread we had on this idiot:

#262 zombie 1/3/2005 02:51PM PST

This is the real pitiable part of the guy's resume:

Editorial intern -- Summer 2002
The American Prospect
Washington, DC
* Fact-checked, researched and proofread articles and weblog entries.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

That puts him at 0 for 3.

Speaking of Evergreen State, have a look at their faculty directory. Their collection of moonbats is amazing. This one in particular.

I think we should airdrop Bjorn Lomberg's *Skeptical Environmentalist* all over that place.

It's good to know that Columbia's best and brightest journalism students know how to spell Comission !?!

what a douche bag.

oops, sorry a personal attack... who cares.

Let's grant that the evidence is not entirely conclusive that the documents were forgeries (not).

But Mr. Pein msut grant that the documents are at best extremely questionable.

Would an esteemed graduate of the Columbia Graduate School of Journalism go to air with a piece that potentially slanders the President of the United States during an election cycle with highly questionable documents?

I suppose so.

Hey, cut it out you guys. You're violating his freedom of speech and freedom of the press by criticizing his shoddy work. We're all one step closer to a totalitarian society now.

This is for you, Corey, you whiner.

I am confident in my piece.

Is he talking about cod?

Didn't Corey Pein get his article past an editorial board? Corey Pein is a sympton but he is not the illness. Columbia does not eductate, it indoctrinates. The America hating bias is beyond dominant and I don't see it changing. Some alumni are trying to agitate for academic diversity but are completely ignored. The vast majority of it's student body are no different that Pein. The few that aren't keep their heads down, avoid challenging their professors, get their degrees and quietly move on. It's academic totalitarianism, an academic gulag.

This is so assinine that we still have educated people debating whether or not the memos were authentic. Good Lord give it up already. This isn't a criminal trial where a shred of doubt in one juror's mind can set free a defendant. The burden of proof is on the accuser, and CBS never had any nor can any be found now.

The writing style is whitebread, the arguments are flimsy, the tone is sophomoric and the bitching about hurtful e-mail is pathetic.

This is your mind on "Columbian".

"This proves nothing — you could make a replica of almost any document using Word."
This is true, but misses the point.
1) The default settings on Word produced this document. This is not an attempt to change the settings to duplicate the style of a previous document. The default settings are the default settings that the program was created with. Microsoft is responsible.
2) The default settings include artifacts not replicable without computer word processing or skilled manual typesetting. The document also includes some artifacts physically possible, but a serious nuisance to perform, and utterly unheard of to manufacture in a document prior to computers using dot matrix printers.
3) The seeBS documents presented as authentic included some of those artifacts not physically capable of being done on any typewriter or typesetting machine in existence during 1972, or, in fact, on any machine for over a decade later. The IBM Selectric Composer only has 8 font widths and is not a typewriter in any case. It was/is a desktop typesetting machine that was simultaneously unavailable to a Air Guard unit and incapable of producing the documents in question.
4) There were no standards prior to the aesthetic choices of Microsoft during the development of Word that would have the specific letter spacing and pseudo-kerning elements at those particular numbers. Saying that the exact match for a smaller piece of paper centered freehand coincidently matched the locations, pseudo-kerning, spacing, page centering, and happened to come out square and true on the larger page used in the rest of the world is like saying the element of artwork over your shoulder just looks like a B&W photo. It was really made by throwing a gallon of black paint at a white background in an attempt to make your own Rorschach blot. It is just incredible co-incidence that it looks like an Ansel Adams photo.

This gimp too stupid to know how stupid he is, or does he think the rest of us are as stupid as he wishes we were?

"I eagerly await the report of the investigating comission. Whatever they decide about the documents, I am confident in my piece."

Is he waiting for the results of the Teapot Dome investigation? That should be on the news, any day now...as soon as they figure out who shot Lincoln.

# 65 mich-again:

This is your mind on "Columbian".

That's good.

I am dismayed that in the flood of responses to my work,

Dissent? WAAAHH! We want our ivory tower back!

I began my reporting with the presumption that the documents were forged. Only after weeks of
research and reporting did I reach my conclusion — not that the memos are real, but that there is no definitive evidence in the blogs or in the press that supports the conventional wisdom that they are forged.

IDIOT ALERT COURTESY SCOTT ADAMS:

Dear Mr. Pein,

For your convenience, I have highlighted the brain malfunctions that most closely resemble the ones you recently exhibited on the topic of document fabrication:

Proof by Lack of Evidence
Example: I've never seen you drunk, so you must be one of those Amish people.

Failure to Recognise what's Important
Example: My house is on fire! Quick, call the post office and tell them to hold my mail!

Following the Advice of Known Idiots
Example: Uncle Billy says pork makes you smarter. That's good enough for me!

Other brain malfunction examples that you may learn from in your future writings are at:

www.megat.co.uk/wrong/

Best,

SMS111

They've lost their authority and they ain't ever gettin' it back, and it's driving every last one of them insane.

Works for me.

Here's one I love from Corey Pein's website "All I’m saying is, in a story like this, the connections and leanings of sources should be noted, whether liberal or conservative."

LOL!...

This from the man who neglected to mention the little fact that David Hailey happened to be a substantial Kerry campaign contributor?...

This guy sounds like a kid. He may have stylistic and technical talent, but he lacks maturity and responsibility.

i must stop arguing half empty/half full - i must stop arguing half empty/half full...oh, it never works. to establish truth, you need facts. the idea that although the facts are false the premise is true only exists in kerryland [100 miles from clintonheights, 200 miles from kennedyville and 300 miles from edwardsestates]. if the shoe was on the other hoof, i don't think they would let it fly. same thing with farrenheit 911. when rassmus [kerry's trophy boy] was being interviewed, hannity asked him about the winter soldier question of the year - kerry's inability to verify the testimony he delivered in 1971. it was your typical "well, vietnam was a big country" - now that just about covers it. you have to take them at their word. i used to buy a lot of garbage on word - not anymore. the fact that the inability to establish their case means nothing just lets you know who they are.

Well since no one can prove that Jerry Killian didn't have either a time machine or magical powers, the memos could be legit...

cathy :-)

Lets solve the case. According to the law of forensics, who ever prepared the document left part of himself on the document and left part of the document on himself. Now we only have pdf files of photocopied documents. But, what sort of paper did the Airforce use for memos during the Vietnam war. It would not be the sort of paper we use in printers now. The paper would have been flimsy, and probably would have been acid treated, and so naturally would have yellowed with age. The ink's would also be wet, as opposed to dry/cooked inks used in lazer printers. The ink in typewriters runs into the grain, and leaves "laughter lines". The paper should have grains in it, just like the paper my mum used to bring home from the office to crayon on. How white is the paper, compared with the top of the printer? How many times has the paper gone through the potocopier? Each time it will shrink as the paper is heated to melt the ink. The Ink near the edges will shrink more than that in the centre. Compare the size of an "o" in the middle of the paper and that near the edge. The bigger the difference the more time it has been run through.
What spelling have changed in 30 years? What punchuation stiles have changes? What slang has changed? If the man who was suposed to have written it was born in the 1920's, what language would he have used? Would such a man type his own letters (unlikely), if not, why is not the office that prepared the document cited?

To all:

Check out the blog references in the "Columbia Journalism Review Campain Desk"

[Link: www.campaigndesk.com...] ...

They sure seem to like Atrios. Searched for references to PowerLine, INDC, LGF, InstaPundit, PoliPundit, RealClearPolitics, Kerry Spot, etc...

Primary Document:
"Blog-Gate", 'Columbia Journalism Review' by Corey Pein...

[Link: www.cjr.org...]

Does it mean something when your only reference points are somewhat aggressive left leaning sites?

CJR and Corey Pein find 'fake, but accurate' evidence quite newsworthy. He joins an impressive list of noteworthy journalists who followed the same mantra in 2003/2004. Damn, forgot their names - I like my in-depth reporting accurate and not fake...

What gets me is this snot nosed putz in tuchas is getting national coverage (Fox, MSM) for second rate LLL yellow journalism. Big time exposure for what?
It pains me to think that this will encourage other idiotic ivy leaguers to purge their liberal "feelings" in lieu of good old fashion reporting in the pursuit of their 15 minutes

Someone should point out to the skeptic that Andy Rooney said it was a blatant forgery. Really, anyone who ever used a real typewriter (even a really good one) good recognize that.

How old is Pein again? The audacity, that whipersnapper lecturing us on what a real buggy-whip looks like.

Pein, if you're reading, nothing personal, but you don't even know what you don't know.

#7 zombie

Very good logic.

One significant error that sets it off by an order of magnitude though - "object 1" is actually "object 1"a digitized/pixelated nth generation copy of an image of the artifact in question.

If a typewriter/typesetter of 1972 could be found to reasonable replicate the "object 1" the only proven fact would be that the artifact could have been made by the same process TODAY, not that the artifact was made when alledged.

An analogy when be a digitized nth generation image of a "Guttenburg Bible" or the Resurrection - it cannot ever proove that THAT OBJECT of that image ever existed centuries ago, even if it is already known that similar objects were known to exist and still exist.

OT - Anybody see the "amusing report" on the tsunami today on MSNBC that featured Kevin Sites (Stites?) in Aceh Province, Indonesia? Talk about a direlict, this guy looked like a refugee from a Discovery Channel "Biker Build Off" feature, only about twice as arrogant and four times as stupid. His life insurance company must have told him to get out of Iraq or they would cancel his policy. Maybe he can get a piece on an Islamic terrorist getting a shot from an aid worker while playing dead.

"many critics are merely repeating what their favorite blogs say instead of making up their own minds."

The flip side of what someone else observed: The Conceit here is that unless you agree with him, you haven't made up your own mind. i.e. the only possible outcome of making up one's own mind is to agree with him.

Typical for a liberal, who believes that his position is the only possible correct one, even in matters of opinion.

I like how he uses the "absolute certainty" burden of proof with regard to the docs. I.e., no one can prove with "absolute certainty" that the docs are fake, so they must be real.

People are sent to death row on "beyond a reasonable doubt", which is not "absolute certainty".

"Absolute certainty" is an absurdity.

Kind of like Mr. Pein and his "journalism" degree.

Journalism students should spend more time taking Logic/Philosophy classes, not to mention a smattering of higher math and engineering classes. At least then they might have a better view of the real world - and understand how cause/effect works.

I could tell these documents looked funny the first time I saw them. The clincher was when Charles did the overlay of the .pdf with his own word document. What more evidence does one need unless they are trying to fit evidence to their own agenda.

I have some letters that were written by John F. Kennedy & Mayor Richard Daly where they discuss how many people from the grave will need to vote in the 1960 election to make sure Kennedy beats Nixon in Illinois. How real they are I can't tell, but that matters not since the facts might be true.

(voted “most likely to bring down a presidential administration” by his Columbia classmates)

More ad hominems, Charles?

Pathetic.

#86 Gordon

What's really pathetic is people like you whining about non-existent "ad hominems".

Mr. Pein states: "in a story like this, the connections and leanings of sources should be noted." But Mr. Pein fails to follow his own rule, failing to note HIS OWN "connections and leanings." For the record, prior to CJR he worked at "The American Prospect", described in its website as "a magazine of liberal ideas ... and effective liberal politics."

How is quoting something from Pein's website an ad hominem?