soros gets it!

When is the bikini part of the contest?

/shudders

ahhh, the scum rises to the top ...

Soros is pure evil... I've watched him for about 10 years now and he has proven to be one of the most destructive forces economically to the world.

C'mon, Koffi! You let me down last year, you can do it this year.

Kofi..Kofi! C'mon man, can't you do ANYTHING right?

I do not believe in the "foolishness" of the top two.
Smart enough to be diabolical but not self aware enough to know it
sorry fellas i aint buying

Sorry Everybody has a book out...

[Link: www.hylaspublishing.com...]

They both deserve to win.

Was the Gerebox in the contest or does he qualify for nextyear's vote?

Soros was my pick last year. I lobbied hard for the worthless waste!

Yeah, Soros is Saran, and Kofi is ca-ca, but fatboy Moore takes the cake (and eats it) in my book. He has become the flabby-jowled face-man of Idiotarians the world over.

Charles, is it my browser, or is this related to the recent outage of LGF, but why do the links in threads no longer open in a new window?

Soros is **Satan**, not saran (whatever that is)

PIMF

Oh G-d, my nerves.

Who can I bribe? Kofi must win! Where are my campaigning partners? There's no time to rest!

Kofi will win...he's just too freakin' unbelieveably inept not to.

micheal more because i can see him accepting the fiskie with the illusion that no matter what he is right. please tell me you have a statuette made and mailed to the winner with a link to the thread that announces his/her/it 's victory

soros is evil...but kofi and mikey...have led voices, ideals (if one can have mental midgets, have ideals) and actions to deaths of Americans and Iraqis, by murder or starvation, in kofi case...soros was a suicide guy, when he collapsed currencies...but don't think it led to direct American deaths.

Can there be dual recipients?

"So, you're black, eh? Can't read, eh? Get out of here! You can't vote! Dan Rather's my candidate!"
/Ohio or Florida poll worker

/sarc

They all deserve it. Rarely have I ever had a harder time picking from a list. Kinda surprised that Walter Cronkite didn't make the cut. Maybe the Fiskies should add lifetime achievements in idiotarianism for guys like Cronkite and Dhimmi Carter.

Kofi Annan EVIL
Hans Blix EVIL
Jacques Chirac EVIL
Noam Chomsky EVIL
Ramsey Clark EVIL
Howard Dean IDIOT
Democratic Underground IDIOT
Maureen Dowd IDIOT
Al Franken IDIOT
Jeanine Garofalo IDIOT
Al Gore IDIOT
The Guardian EVIL
Seymour Hersh IDIOT
Prof. Robert Jensen EVIL
Ted Kennedy EVIL MURDERER
Mary Mapes IDIOT SYCHOPHANT
Chris Matthews IDIOT
Michael Moore BIG FAT EVIL IDIOT
Mark Morford IDIOT
Lawrence O'Donnell IDIOT
Keith Olbermann IDIOT
Sean Penn IDIOT
John Pilger IDIOT
Barbara Plett EVIL IDIOT
Ted Rall IDIOT
Dan Rather IDIOT SUPREME
Linda Ronstadt REAL IDIOT
George Soros PURE EVIL
SorryEverybody.com IDIOT
Bruce Springsteen EMBARASSING IDIOT
Barbra Streisand BROOKLYN IDIOT
Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero IDIOT
James Zogby EVIL
Markos Zuniga EVIL IDIOT

I can't believe I'm cheering for Michael Moore!

God Speed you fat bast#rd!

Can there be dual recipients?

I want to see a clear single winner (loser). And it should be Kofi (I'll ski through the tsunami) Annon.

#21 AtlasShrugged

LMAO! I forgot about SorryEverybody.com. They'd be an excellent choice.

AtlasShrugged (#21)

I don't agree 100% with all your assessments but they're pretty accurate. There is one that I must speak out about and that's ...

John Pilger IDIOT

He's evil.

Incredibly, you forgot to put John Kerry on the ticket.

I am undecided between Kofi and Moore.

PRO KOFI:

He had his worst year as head of this organ hell bent on destroying Israel and America. Oil-for-food in which his son was involved finally hit the headlines. He has done nothing in the Sudan and decided that skiing in Jackson Hole was more important that responding to the worst natural disaster since Pompeii. He has praised Arafat to no end and has criticized Israel and the US with the same vigor. He looks great in a C and F cartoon.

CON KOFI:

He is a crooked malevolent creature, not just an idiot. He does something worthy of scorn and ridicule nearly every day, not just every year

PRO MOORE:

Moore tried to unseat a President during wartime using nothing but distortions and lies. He will win award after award from the film industry, so it is a trendy pick. That smirk. He was seated next to Jimmeh Peanut when John Kerry reported for duty. He not only passes global tests, he is the size of the globe. He is a MSU Spartan.

CON MOORE:

He is cold anc calculated and knows exactly what he is doing. Unlike blind partisan followers like Markos Zuniga, Josh Marshall and Wonkette, he sets the tone. He did come down hard on "our friends" the Saudis (even if for craven purposes, not because he believed it).

#chewydog

OH MY! You can't make this stuff up. The people who buy that book even more pathetic than the people in it.

Ted Rall - an idiot's idiot.

Damn, I spared one vote for Blix. wish now that I'd given it to Kofi. Run Kofi run. You've got the world behind you!

C'mon, Lizards!

We all know Linda von Ronschtup is more idiotic than Khafiya Anal and Moored-Blimp put together!

And that's really saying something when you consider what a massive tub o' blup the Moored-Blimp really is.

Now I've used all my votes on Leen-duh so I really want every single one of my votes to count!

Let's send her back for a ride on the Stone Pony!

I demand a recount !

let's not forget Soros... he's more cold and calculating than any of the others... Do you know that he - a jew - worked for the Nazi's deporting jews during wwII?

What are you all saying Soros is pure evil? I disagree with him strongly, but I don't think he's evil in the least.

32 Texanista,

You have any evidence of that?

(I'll ski through the tsunami)

I wonder if he falls on his ass...and then blames aids (pardon the pun) for tripping him...how does one say.."son-of-a-bitch" in Akan, Moshi-Dagomba, Ewe, and Ga, the languages they speak in Ghana.

#27 J. Lichty 1/5/2005 08:11PM PST

Then vote for Chrissy Matthews!

Liberalism is a mental disorder. They all deserve to be fed to the lions. They're going to get us all killed.

Atlas Shrugged, #21 ROTFLMFAO

By the way, the National Review Online today has an interesting review of Atlas Shrugged , written by Whitaker Chambers in 1957. It's part of the magazine's 50th anniversary celebration.

Texanista: that's a pretty serious charge to make against Soros. What evidence do you have that he collaborated?

I was going to vote for annan, but after this, re mm? He is a bastard, and if Reaganite sees this, I would hope that the Government is aware, on Inauguration Day:Mike's Inauguration Guide

On Thursday, January 20, 2005, George W. Bush will be inaugurated as president of the United States. For the millions of us who stand for the values of peace and justice, it is a moment to renew our commitment to resist the Bush Administration and its deadly policies of war and greed – and to show Bush, and the world, that our movement is energized, mobilized, and determined to keep fighting back.

Please read the site. It is scary. Any ideas about what can be done, as IMHO he presents a clear threat to President Bush? He is dangerous, and what he advocates is not peace...

Come on Kofi- If you can get oil for palaces, you can get votes for palaces! Plus, you've already clearly proven yourself an idiot, there's very little work you have to do!

#32 texanista
I've read a lot about Soros, and I don't believe that's accurate. Do you have a link?

38 his own words... google him... soros isn't his real name either.

A vote for Kofi is a vote for democracy. Any other vote will bring doom and destruction upon mankind. Think mushroom clouds!

Vote Koffi - 2004

43 texanista,

Three people have you called you out. You have an answer?

I haven't kept files on soros over the years but I am absolutely sure of what I am saying... I'll do a search and find a link.

Ted Rall is being robbed! He deserves at least an honourable mention in the top 5.

Speaking of enormous idiocy, it seems Indymedia has gotten the attention of the MSM:

Conspiracy theorists see dark forces behind tsunami disaster

#25 zulu

There is one that I must speak out about and that's ...John Pilger IDIOT
He's evil.

actually he is an EVIL IDIOT...

Doesn't Kevin Sites get some sort of special EVIL PARASITE mention? He really deserves to have a wall plaque that he can use to decorate his own circle of hell when the time comes.

#21 AtlasShrugged:

Perfect post!

Linda Ronstadt IS the Real Idiot.

Hey-hey, Ho-ho, Kojo's Daddy's gotta go!

VOTE RONSTADT--VOTE OFTEN!

I demand a recount...just in case...

George Soros was born in Budapest in 1930 but, today, spends most of his time in New York City. Not much is known about his early years. He is the only eminent "holocaust survivor" who has been accused of collaboration with the Nazis. In 1947, he managed to sneak through the Iron Curtain, and, the official story goes, "he landed penniless in London, but by hard work and sheer genius, he rose to become one of the planet's most successful investors and richest men."
here

Abu Maven

What are you all saying Soros is pure evil? I disagree with him strongly, but I don't think he's evil in the least.

Oh no, he's the devil.

texanista

Sorry, a charge like that needs more documentation that simply telling us to Google the guy's name. There's plenty of spurious information on the net.

OT -- High watermarks for Asian markets

The stock exchanges of Indonesia, Malaysia, and Thailand are riding a flood of good times, like there's nothing in the world to depress them. What's their secret? Prozac? Or the inflow of international aid and the prospect of a bunch of new beachfront that suddenly doesn't belong to anybody? In any case, it sure doesn't look like these markets expect their governments to encounter any unforseen social expenses, or raise their taxes for any earthly reason.

Kofi Anan has real institutional power and controlver internatinal agencies.

Therefore his malicious idiocy is really dangerous and has done real harm.

Perhaps more harm than anyone else on the list.
.
Michael Moore and other theatricals are merely jesters, and not even funny ones. They have no real power. They can get some stupid people to adopt their notions, but they cannot give orders.

Kofi Annan can give orders . . . and those orders can be damaging to the whole world.

So which one's idiotarianism is more pernicious? So which one more deserves the discredit?

Kofi Kofi Kofi . . .

#38 Ronnie

How off was that review? HA!

It reports the final stages of a final conflict (locale: chiefly the United States, some indefinite years hence) between the harried ranks of free enterprise and the "looters." These are proponents of proscriptive taxes, government ownership, labor, etc., etc. The mischief here is that the author, dodging into fiction, nevertheless counts on your reading it as political reality. This," she is saying in effect, "is how things really are. These are the real issues, the real sides. Only your blindness keeps you from seeing it, which, happily, I have come to rescue you from."

How sagacious and brilliant was Rand? The Greatest Book ever written...the only thing I would need on a desert island (and LGF, and Billie, and discourse with Pookle, and ...)

I want Kofi Annan to win.
If he loses I’m gonna keep my Annan/05 bumper sticker on my truck just to send message to you MooreHitler supporters.
SO THERE! nay nay nay

I found this:

Nearly a half-million Hungarian Jews were killed by the Nazis, but the Soroses managed to escape. Tivadar saw to it that young George Soros (the original family name, Schwartz, was changed in 1936) evaded deportation to the death camps in 1944 by posing as the godson of a government official. Years later, this masquerade became the basis for unfair press charges that George had somehow collaborated with the Nazis.

[Link: www.businessweek.com...]

Soros was accused by who? When? I would put nothing past him, but surely there's more to go on than that.

here's one link and I'm still looking: soros

I won't read rense. Just sayin'.

# 21 Atlas Shrugged

Very funny, but are we to suppose that since you gave Moore four descriptives that he is your favorite?
QM
'You have not read Atlas Shrugged until you have read it in the orginal Klingon" --Sea Wasp

;)

Soros is total EVIL and if he is a jew and he chose to collaborate, that is infinitely even more evil.

George Soros is the son of the Esperanto writer Tivadar Soros. Soros was born in Hungary and lived there until 1946, when he escaped the Soviet occupation by participating in an Esperanto youth congress in the West. (Soros was taught to speak the language from birth.) As a young man, Soros traded currencies in the black market during the Nazi occupation of Hungary. Soros was fourteen when the Nazis invaded Hungary and he avoided the fate of many Jews as the grandson of a Hungarian official overseeing the confiscation of Jewish properties, who was assisted by his son-in-law, Tivadar Soros.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I hope we can stop calling Moore fat when we attack him. Even though he IS a big fat slob, it makes us sound like Franken attacking Limbaugh.

I don't want to ever go THAT low...

#57 Atlas

I'd bring a massive amount of chocolate, an engineer like Cyrus Harding, and a couple hundred more books with me.

I nominate Whitaker Chambers for a retro Fiskie for his book review of Atlas Shrugged in 1957...talk about getting it wrong...ouch!

#15 zulubaby

Who can I bribe?

How much did you have in mind?

Kofi Annan and Michael Moore battle it out

Now I really hate Dan Ra^ther!

#62 J.D.

I knew he had a hate site, and he does. I just googled him, as I had seen some of his articles. I feel sick..Texanista, to me, as a Jew, soros(may his name be obliterated) is not fit to feed to a piranha, but from what I know of him, he escaped Hungary, and was a university student in London, at LSE..here is the vile rense; whoever hosts his hate site should be taken to court.

Take a look at his 'experts' at the bottom.J.D., do you know anything more about this POS?

I think Rather should win this one personally, but if he fails, surely, Annan should get the Fiskie.

#66 Stuck in Cali

He is fat!

The award cannot be allowed to go to someone who would relish it. Or in this instance, who might consume it with relish.

Anyone, then, but Michael Moore.

#66

LOL

Sepia is Latin for "cuttlefish."

It doesn't matter. Representative Conyers will demand that all the Ohio votes be thrown out.

Sorry meant #73

#63 Quilly

Very funny, but are we to suppose that since you gave Moore four descriptives that he is your favorite?

My vote goes to the SUPREME idiot...the quintessential idiotarian Dan Staggering Rather

52 El Cid

From your link:

The only logical answer is that Soros wants as few Russians and others born into this world as possible.

Right, sure. Totally unsubstantiated bullshit.

Atlas, I don't think that Chambers was unsympathetic to a libertarian point of view. He just thought that Rand was a crappy writer.

Frankly, she doesn't strike me as admirable in many ways.

Well it's still a twelve horse race between Kofi (evil, not idiotarian) and Mikha al-Mooron (should be damned to be forever runner-up).

Sorry but I think the Sorryeverybody.com crew is easily the most pathetic and lame, the best to follow in the treadtracks of Rachel Jemimah.

OT

Thought you might appreciate this tribute to our troops.

#71 NY Nana
It's been a while since I've read any of that garbage and I vowed I would never waste one second doing it again.
All I know is he's a sensationalist cheapshot moonbat.

Israeli Group Biggest Civilian Aid Contributor to Sri Lanka

Jerusalem (CNSNews.com) - The Sri Lankan government reportedly refused to accept a large Israeli rescue and medical mission to aid tsunami victims. But even so, an Israeli group says it has contributed more civilian aid to Sri Lanka than any other country.

#84 theparson
'
Re your OT

I've seen this before, and it was a thread topic before Christmas. It is very moving. And it really puts things into perspective.

Thank you for posting the link again.

As sorry as SorryEverybody.com is, they still don't deserve to be this high on the list. They are just a bunch of sorry people who are expressing their sorry opinion...they don't really hurt anyone. The others all have hurt others on a global scale (I'm not sure Rather should be this high on the list either)

In my (humble) opinion Soros, Annan and MM have the greater potential to hurt huge numbers in many nations - there are others further down in the list like Blix and Chirac who should be up in the top 5.

#84
theparson

dang you, got me crying...

BTW Re: Jeff Rense

Just check the a href="[Link: www.google.com...] target="_blank">LGF entries wrt this clown to see where he's coming from.

Skippy

It really moved me. Very well done.

#82 Ronnie

Frankly, she doesn't strike me as admirable in many ways.

Rand is the quintessence of perfect logic. She is a philosopher on par with Aristotle.Completely unambigous, she saw it all...how can you look at the world today and not see her prescience, her utter brilliance, her clarity.

It doesnt sadden me to tell you how grossly mistaken you are. I welcome the opportunity to implore you to reread Atlas Shrugged or better yet, read the Fountainhead first. Reading it now will be a cold hard slap in your face and you'll thank me for it...A is A

Cheers,..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-
¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
((¸¸.·´ ..·´ Atlas-:¦:-
-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*

Sorry bout that

LGF Entries on Jeff Rense

Did anyone else's comments column suddenly expand?

Out of the five top contestants, only moonbats galore SorryEverybody.com are true idiotarians (a.k.a. useful udiots).

So Charles, when to we get to vote in round 2?

OT Atlas, check our e-mail.

92 you would do well to read about Nash equilibrium from an economic standpoint...

Check ISBN 1559706929 on Amazon - Masquerade: Dancing Around Death in Nazi Occupied Hungary- it's an autobiographical book re the by Mr. Soros' dad. I think this elicidates this matter quite a bit.

I personally think this Nazi charge is unfounded and untrue.

All my votes went to Moore, and he's now in the lead.

Rather is in third and coming on strong. Donning a flight suit, touring the devastation and commenting on Us relief efforts, he said (IIRC) "...its also an opportunity to show the Islamic people that the US military can save people not just fight and frighten them."

aaarrrggghhh!

#92 AtlasShrugged

I've read both (actually, most of her books), and Atlas Shrugged was/is one of my favorites. But, Ayn was an egotistical unrealistic nut.

I lost any respect I had for her long before she passed away.

ntropy, I heartily agree. Maybe in addition to the lifetime achievement award the Fiskies could also add a group category so that way true idiotarians like Garafolo and Franken could have another shot at winning.

This could be the start of something big, like the Oscars, or Grammies or AVN awards.

Just as the Motion Picture Academy gives out the Irving Thalberg award for lifetime achievement, I propose that the lifetime idiotarian award be named the Jimmy, after Jimmy Carter.

81 Abu Maven

Right, sure. Totally unsubstantiated bullshit.

Abu...paraphrasing the words of Fox News...I link, you decide.

90 expanded the column. (Points)

"Soros makes no bones about the interventionist nature of his role in Ukraine. At one point, he remarked, jocularly, "If this isn't meddling in the affairs of a foreign nation, I don't know what is!" — Connie Bruck

[Link: ukar.org...]

#94 pookleblinky

How many hits did you take? :-)

105 El Cid,

Big deal. Bush makes no bones about the interventionist nature of his role in the Middle East.

Soros has done some good work in establishing "open societies" in the former Soviet client states. I happen to disagree with his hatred of Bush, but I don't know what possible basis anyone has to assert that he is "pure evil."

The fact that he may have posed as a Christian and helped confiscate Jewish land during the Holocaust is certainly jarring, but he was 14 years old at the time. It's hard to call a 14 year-old a "Nazi collaborator." And if he didn't do it, he probably would have gone to the gas chambers himself.

Only george soros knows what he did or did not do, in the 40's with nazis...and he ain't tellin. He's To busy parasitically making money. I find it a diametric oppositon to fund things in socialist areas of the world and spend millions in defeating the ideals of the country that gives him wide latitude, to do just that thing...that country is the U.S.

Last year I was afraid I would be Idiotarian of the Year, for having sat through a full 45 minutes of "Matrix Reloaded", but I escaped that fate and this year my conscience is clean.

I would have to argue against Kofi Annan, though. Anyone who loots as efficiently as he does is no fool.

#105 Elcid -

Exactly! Soros is a dangerous idiot whereas many of the others are just sorry idiots. A dangerous idiot needs to win this - they are idiots twice over because they influence others.

I went ahead and chose Kofi on the basis that his idiocy has a negative impact and influence on more people across the world. I had to give him a bit of benefit of the doubt relating to motivations, though, in order to put him into the same category as Corrie and Carter.

In my mind, a true idiotarian should actually believe at least some of the nonsense they're espousing. Heck, it was just hard to pick this year. Too darned many idiots out there.

Soros needs his own category. He's not an idiot; he's malevolent.

108

He believes he's promoting American ideals, not destroying them. Certainly, spreading freedom in Soviet client states qualifies as promoting American ideals.

I'm not saying some of his stuff isn't wacky. It is and I know because I've read it. But "pure evil" is a bit much.

#97 texanista

You can keep the schizoid
I stand by Adam Smith. Period

Nite all.

197 Abu Maven

Big deal. Bush makes no bones about the interventionist nature of his role in the Middle East.

Ummm, I take it you do not see a difference in meddling in currency...and meddling for the sake of civil humanity...us or them...georges way leaves people penniless...the 'others' way, leave people dead.

Interesting...but "big deal", huh?

#102 ronnie schreiber

Agreed. I understand the Fiskie to be for the most clueless, imbecilic, potentially-dangerous-yet-for-the-most-part-harmle ss person or people.

People like Moore, Annan and Rather have a definite agenda and are doing their very best to push it through. Were the Fiskies to branch out, I like the idea of lifetime achievement award (named, appropriately, after the first winner, Carter) and an award for the person most responsible for putting western lives most at risk. Those would be for the dangerous idiotarians like Moore, Annan et al.

Totally OT:

Experts Seeking King Tut's Cause of Death

While interesting in itself, what I find really fascinating is how the Egyptians (remember that 2B a year from USAID) hollered about anyone other than Egyptians doing the research.

Plans for the examination had raised a row among archaeologists and officials in Egypt, who insisted the mummy not be taken from Luxor, and that the research be done by Egyptians. The researchers originally planned to move the mummy to the Egyptian Museum in Cairo for examination, but altered that after the outcry.

The equipment was brought in from the WEST. Who can tell me of any major excavation done by the Egyptians? Who HAS done them? Where did the equipment and expertise come from?

The only thing Egypt has donated is the danged mummies.

Crap.

116

Which "George" are you referring to?

Bush's "meddling" leaves people dead. Don't get me wrong, I happen to support such "meddling" by Bush. Bush and I believe such "meddling" is worth it. Similarly, I think Soros believes his "meddling" is worth it too. His meddling in the former Soviet states is intended to promote freedom, same as Bush's policies in the Middle East.

I am having trouble following your point.

OT - Steyn
On tsunami's shore

#101 Sarah D

I've read both (actually, most of her books), and Atlas Shrugged was/is one of my favorites. But, Ayn was an egotistical unrealistic nut.

Do you see the lunacy of what you've written? From your posts I know you are rather bright. On the one hand "Atlas Shruged was/is one of your favorite books but she was an egotistical nut"? Who gives a shit what you thought of her personally?

Ayn Rand was the GREATEST PHILOSOPHER ever born. She is truth and her treastise is the only one that man ought to be living by. She "got" it and everyone else were psuedo feel good collectivist clowns that love ideas not people and whose philosophies have been responsible for the deaths of millions upon millions.

RAND IS THE VOICE OF REASON. I STAND BY THAT.

OT

[Link: www.heritage.org...]

US is no longer on the list of the 10 freest economies.

113 I understand...

#121 AtlasShrugged

But she didn't live by her own writings...really. That's why.

Be a bit skeptical.

Will Soros spend billions to try to win this? Vote Kofi!

Breaking News! Dan Rather will report of a memo recently fabri... , Uh discovered that Michael Moore actually voted for Bush! This could sway this election to Annon.

El Cid,

The very propaganda article you link accuses Soros of being part of the Zionist conspiracy:

Or maybe just a Zionist? The most cynical of all observers might note that George Soros is a member of a group that has demonstrated itself to be hostile to the success of the Ukrainian state, and that in fact has an overriding interest in a Ukrainian economic collapse.

Pray tell, how is anything in your article more credible than stories in the Arab press blaming "Zionists" for every imaginable world crisis? It's the height of irony that members of this site -- who provide themselves on being critical of the Arab and MMM propaganda (and particularly the "Zionist" claims) -- are totally willing to fall for the same sh*t hook, line and sinker when it suits their purposes.

OT: Check out the "rated lowest comments" from Amazon for:

The Trouble with Islam : A Muslim's Call for Reform in Her Faith
by Irshad Manji

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

My God, the willfull blindness. Just listen to them.

Maybe a tie would be a fair result. Mind you, poor old kofficrap has been landed with the job of sorting out the tsunami. This is most unfair as michael moron's stomach rumbles probably caused the erthquake to begin with. So maybe awarding the title to kofficrap would be the fair thing to do.

This leaves michael moron in the still enviable position of being a second rate idiot. Which we all knew before voting started.

#124 Sarah D

the analogy here being how she lived vs what she wrote.

I don't how she lived. I desperately care about objectivism. And I advocate it violently (metaphorically of course).

I do not admire Ayn's lovelife. I respect and live by OBJECTIVISM

My point being - I dont give a flying f*ck about what that what went on in her personal life but i desperately care about the philosophy she espoused

Dang guys. How can anyone be ahead of Dan Rather this year?

Anyone remember if Rachelcakes was leading after the first round of voting? I think she came back and won the final five.

#130 AtlasShrugged

I admire the fact that you are able to remove the philosopher from the philosophy. I cannot.

Objectivity, in my mind, failed her.

Soros was born in 1930? So during the start of the war he was 10? Don't you think these charges against him seem a little ridiculous?

Sarah Be Objective!

You gotta love socialists that are in the currency markets. It's the one place where socialism for the most part can only pad your portfolio and promote your socialist politics.

I don't know if there is a way to tell, but perhaps Mr. Soroschwartz had a lot of investments valued in dollars that were held in Euro holding nations.

#135 Axiom

That is because governments have tried as hard as possible to eliminate commodity money. Remember how Roosevelt stole 292 million ounces of gold, and made it illegal to transact with it until the early 70's.

Have you ever heard about alternate currencies like the Liberty Dollar or Goldmoney?

George Soros is not an idiotarian. Evil? You decide: [Link: www.thestreet.com...]

As for Michael Moore, he is the absolute antithesis of an idiotarian. An idiotarian has to have a sincere earnest do-good quality. That's why Jimmy Carter fits the bill; Kofi Annan might, depending on one's reading of him; likewise Dan Rather. But Moore? He is a duplicitous lying guy who knows every single step of the way what his agenda is, and it is to destroy. Not an idiotarian!

Please, fellow LGFs, come to your senses! ABM--Anybody But Moore for idiotarian of the year.

#134 AtlasShrugged

I prefer realistic.

:-)

AtlasShrugged

I too, cannot separate the Philosopher from the Philosophy...The philosopher is the origin or basis of that philosophy...

Funny, if one goes to the main page of Texanista's anti-Soros propaganda link in 61, one sees the following:

Iraq Resistance
Report For 12-26 (cheerleading the deaths of Americans and the "puppet" Iraqis fighting with us):

Puppet police commander assassinated in Baghdad.

A source in the puppet police announced that Resistance fighters had liquidated a prominent commander of the puppet police in an armed attack Sunday southwest of Baghdad.

And of course, a bevy of anti-Semitic articles:

THE UGLY ISRAELI

Americans Beaten
By Jews For Walking
Palestinian Kids
To School

HOLOCAUST
FUND

Holocaust Fund
Investigated
For 'Unusual'
Money Transfers

Zionist Israel's
Exploitation Of
The Holocaust

And more anti-American madness:

911 ANALYSIS

German Engineers
Analyze 911 -
Say Bush Is Lying

I'll say it again -- it's amazing that folks on this site are linking to anti-Semitic and anti-American tripe to support their specious contention that Soros is "pure evil." Until someone can link to a site not dripping with anti-Semitism, I consider the case closed.

About Soros
George Soros: His Plan to Defeat George Bush

Soros: Is he a god or a madman with money?

The Open Society and Its Enemy - A review of The Bubble of American Supremacy by George Soros

"Roosevelt stole 292 million ounces of gold"
Didn't the government pay market rate for that gold that was remitted?

OT

Did anyone catch Rather lately? CBS online has an article, apparently from him:

The Race To Save Millions

He spent time aboard the aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln, which is operating in the Indian Ocean as the U.S. military plays a critical role getting relief where it's needed.

And NOT where it can fight terrorists.

One beacon of hope on the shattered island of Sumatra is a small airfield near the capital city of Banda Aceh. It is the forward staging ground for all relief efforts in the area hardest hit by the tsunami. It is also where Rather continued his report on a U.S. Navy helicopter flight bringing aid to a town cut off, and in desperate need of help.

Notice that Rather rides with our soldiers, but doesn't talk about what a fabulous job they're doing.

I voted for Kofi and The Disengenuous Smear Merchant Who't Name Shall Not Be Spoken. They are both worthy candidates who each richly deserve the Fiskie. However, let's put the two candidates into context, shall we?

Kofi is, in many respects, a powerless pimp suckling at the teat of the UN corruption machine. I think he might be an excellent candidate for the Presidency of the International Olympic Committee after he retires as UN SECGEN.

MM is a much more virulant and malevolant source of anti-American propoganda, and has been rewarded for his sickening efforts with riches beyond his wildest dreams. He has grown powerful, and drunk on that power. He is artful in manipulating the mass media, who fawn at his every utterance. He has the backing of two of the most powerful smut merchants in Hollywood, the Weinstein brothers, which has allowed him to distribute his distortions and outright lies around the world to an eager, America-hating mob of supercillious French, cowardly Spaniards and seething Islamofacists.

And, if that weren't bad enough, MM constantly disgraces my beloved Detroit Tigers by constantly pulling a size 11 ballcap featuring the "English D" down over his bloated skull full of moonbat guano and smirking into the nearest camera.

MM, please come forward and accept your Fiskie, right over your head.

#139 Bubblehead

I too, cannot separate the Philosopher from the Philosophy...The philosopher is the origin or basis of that philosophy...

What are we talking about here? How dare you discard brilliant human thought? Do you not live in your own moral universe? Do you judge Plato on his homosexual peccadillos? What exactly can't you reconcile?

#142

That is not the point. By banning commodity money (gold) which is impervious to inflation except in extraordinary cases (Mansa Musa), the government crippled the function of money, and allowed it to enact interventionist policies not possible in the presence of a commodity money. These interventionist policies resulted in ever-increasing ripples of negative effects, which were followed by more of the same interventionist policies in an attempt to rectify the initial harm. The government could pay back the "market rate," but in fiat money subject to the whims of politicians.

Just voted for Kofi, the multicultural buttboy of the world.

George Soros is a guy who uses his money to wreck things and hurt people. I'm glad he got ZERO for his $25 million wasted on sticking a knife in our backs on November 2nd.

I wrote to his web site in Sept or Oct to tell him he's got precisely one vote when we have elections and that his billions don't earn him a single extra ballot.

His site responded to me by putting me on their email list.

Argh!

144 Rayra

Funding MoveOn.org? Funding every seditionist group during the campaign season? Evil.

So anyone with whom you disagree is evil? Anyone who supported Kerry is evil? Let's see, I guess that means my brother is evil, my dad was almost evil, but he cured himself at the last second, most of my friends are evil...

There's a difference between disagreeing with someone and calling them evil. I don't like Soros one bit. And the stuff I've read by him (Crisis of Global Capitalism, Bubble of American Supremacy) has been whacky.

Not evil.

Sarah and Bubble
Ad hominen

One of the most often employed fallacies, ad hominen means "to the man" and indicates an attack that is made upon a person rather than upon the statements that person has made. An example is "Don't listen to my opponent; he's a homosexual."

ot

Hey ED in TEXAS. What gives?

[Link: seattletimes.nwsource.com...]

Are we set to see a once in a generation collision of 3 powerful storm systems this weekend?

George Soros, damnit!

#151 AtlasShrugged

Who was attacking? Cannot I dislike your apparent diety? Am I allowed?

Give me a break.

George Soros decided to spend a bunch of his million$ to topple the President of the United States.

What right has he got (a guy who topples entire national economies on his own) to decide to topple OUR PRESIDENT?

I think Soros is evil.

An argument is a series of propositions intended to support a conclusion. These propositions are statements, which may be falsified, about the nature of reality. The mouth or hand from which these statements emanate, is immaterial to their falsity, or the validity of the argument. There is no relation between the eccentricities of the person who thought of those arguments, and the arguments themselves, which has an effect on the validity of those arguments.

Even the biggest idiot in the world may utter a sound argument. Even the most intelligent man may utter a AAA-3 syllogism.

Not only does Ayn's fixation on salsa music have no bearing on her arguments, but those arguments themselves lead one to not give a shit about her personal habits.

#153 Sarah

Cannot I dislike your apparent diety?

Not a diety, not hocus pocus, not witchcraft...Brilliant philosophy and truth.

Yours was an ad hominen attack, a fallacy - completely lacking in intellectual honesty. I didnt attack you I merely called you on it as I respect your opinion, considered you argument, and found it completley lacking in merit

156 Rayra

I'm having trouble divining the cause of your affinity for a scum-sucking bastard like George Soros, an individual that just pumped what? $35M? $50M? into trying to subvert our National election.

If you had that kind of money, perhaps you'd have given a comparable amount to Bush. Would such donations qualify as "subversion"? Which donations qualify as "subversion" and which qualify as legitimate participation in the electoral process? Be specific.

#144 Rayra

Not really.

If, for example, in 2000 you shorted tech stocks on the nasdaq, and you made a fortune slaughtering tech pigs, does that make you evil?! How is Soros any different here? He found his pigs in the currency markets, and all the kudos to him for having the gonads to bet everything he had, and taking em pigs to the slaughter haus! I only wish I was half as gutsy.. :(

Waaay OT

Holy crap!

There's a helicopter hovering over my house and the spotlight is shining in my backyard. There's a couple of police cars on the next street with their lights flashing. I have no idea what's going on, but I locked all my doors and windows.

Preorder Today

sorry everybody book
...with a foreword by Ted Rall

The $14.95, 256-page sorry everybody: an apology to the world for the re-election of George W. Bush book will be in stores in time for the inauguration and will feature images that reflect the apologetic and frustrated feelings of many Americans after the election.

So writes James Zetlen, neuroscience student at University of Southern California and the mastermind behind sorryeverybody.com, the Web site that became the water cooler around which people gathered to share their collective grief about the results of the 2004 Presidential election.

BTW,

Ted Rall's position so far down on the ballot HAD to have affected the outcome. I demand an investigation.

:^P

#161 Spiny Norman

Hope you're not running a Meth Lab...

#158 AtlasShrugged

Ayn was a product of her Communist upbringing. She found an outlet in Objectivity.

Never forget that she never got beyond her athiest past. Ayn had NO mercy, no forgivness. No empathy, no sympathy. She had no concept of love.

In the end she got none of those things either.

158 AtlasShrugged,

It's wasn't an ad hominem attack, it was pointing out Rand's hypocrisy. Failure to practice what she preached. Don't kid yourself, it does detract from her writings. Just like those self-righteous environmental advocates -- like John Kerry -- who drive SUVs.

Kinda takes away from his liberal credentials, doesn't it? Same thing with Rand.

OK, now they've moved a couple of houses north of me.

I really didn't want fugitives paying me any visits...

#121 AtlasShrugged

Ayn Rand was the GREATEST PHILOSOPHER ever born. She is truth and her treastise is the only one that man ought to be living by. She "got" it and everyone else were psuedo feel good collectivist clowns that love ideas not people and whose philosophies have been responsible for the deaths of millions upon millions.

There are some among us who prefer not to worship philosophers.

#166 Abu

Bullshit! What takes away from her writings. NOTHING!
]Talk about the goddamn work

#161 Spiny Norman

That happens all the time here. I just lock and load. Who knows what they're looking for.

I had one hover for over two hours one night. Have no idea what it was about.

I need to get a date with a cop...inside information!

:-)

#164 Bubble Girl

Not me.

However, in the past 3 years, two meth labs have been busted within a quarter-mile of my parents, who live about 2 miles south of here. Their next-door neighbor has already moved to AZ, and my dad's looking at property in Tehachapi...

#165 Sarah

Frank loved and adored her...but why are we talking about this

TALK ABOUT THE WORK!

#140 Abu Maven

I'm Jewish and I despise George Soros. While my "devil" remark was strictly tongue-in-cheek, I do loathe everything this man stands for.

Now don't get me wrong; I'm not defending the link that Texanista posted. That site looks like it was authored by the same folks who brought us the Ewige Jude, and you're right in the sense that nothing brings out the Jew-hating scum of the world more rapidly than an unpopular figure like Soros.

However, and please forgive me if I've gotten the wrong impression about you, I'm getting the feeling that you consider any criticism of Soros to be an act of anti-Semitism, or in my case, self-hatred.

Please indulge me. Is there any criticism of Soros that you consider valid, or are any invectives that are hurled at this egregious man strictly verboten by virtue of who he is?

#172 AtlasShrugged

I did, see #165 again.

169 AtlasShrugged,

Forget about Rand for a second. Does Kerry's driving an SUV take away from his pro-environment stance, or can we take Kerry's pro-environment stance at face value?

Rightasrain

What worship? I believe in meritocracy, self worth, personal value.

Abu and Sarah

You allow a relation between the validity of an argument and the person from whom that argument comes. Your belief that there is any connection between a proposition and the person who says it is a fallacy.

#170 Sarah D.

That happens all the time here. I just lock and load. Who knows what they're looking for.

They must've found whoever it was: the copter's gone, the cop cars are still there.

Yes, things are generally quite boring out here... although I did see someone I knew get busted on Cops.

Abu, Rand and Kerry in the same sentence...thats a moral inversion.
Pass the mushrooms

Atlas

No, I never did attack Rand, reread what I said. I said I also factor in the philosopher along with the philosophy. Nothing more... Sorry, I'm not a one type of "philosophy" person. I would have driven the Behavioralists quite mad, me and Skippy Moment, for sure. :)

#178 Spiny

You call that boring?

Yes, things are generally quite boring out here... although I did see someone I knew get busted on Cops.

Dont vote Michael Moore, because it will be one more feather in his cap. He will use it as more publicity.

Kofi Annan might actually be offended, not that he has any scruples or morales left. Self-preservation is his only concern.

#175 Abu

Does Kerry's driving an SUV take away from his pro-environment stance, or can we take Kerry's pro-environment stance at face value?

If Kerry uttered the proposition, "I am opposed to driving SUV's," this evidence shows that his statement is false. It does not have any bearing on the validity of his arguments- it shows he has lied about himself.

It does not, however, have any bearing on the validity of his arguments for environmentalism. They must be falsified by means of environmental observation such as was done by Pat Michaels.

173,

You loathe the billions of dollars he's given to Eastern European countries?

No, I don't consider any criticism of Soros to be anti-Semitic in nature. I just found it interesting that a concensus of "Soros is pure evil" was building on this board, but no one could produce any evidence of his alleged evilness. When I asked for proof, I got two links, both of which were overtly anti-Semitic and promoted the notion that Soros was a "Zionist."

I find it ironic that such "Zionists-are-behind-it" sites are being linked to on this site.

Incidentally, I happen to know one of Soros' sons. Nice kid.

Atlas is a philosopher lover and nothing is allowed other than that. I don't happen to agree with many philosophers, and I note that most are athiests.

Ayn said what she said, wrote some books, and enjoyed a time of popularity. She died unenlightened and alone. Therefore her philosophy didn't work for her. Why should I follow in her path?

Abu

Pshew, Bubble of American Supremacy, when I first glanced at that post I thought you were referring to me, I saw the "Bubble" and thought, oh God, what did I do now?

180 Bubblehead

No, I never did attack Rand, reread what I said. I said I also factor in the philosopher along with the philosophy. Nothing

You allow a relation between the validity of an argument and the person from whom that argument comes. Your belief that there is any connection between a proposition and the person who says it is a fallacy.

... Sorry, I'm not a one type of "philosophy" person. I

Have no idea what this means...you live by oppsoing philosophies...as in Sybil? Every action we make, evey action we take is a manifestation of the philosophy we live by(and some us die by). I live by freedom freedom freedom.
There is a spectrum between freedom and slavery, once you consider that gray area you are finished. There is no turning back

#178 rayra

Well said. And I believe there were some question about how he earned all his billions.

George Soros and the Rothschilds Connection

Not a single Western newspaper has so far uncovered the fact that the Rothschilds group linked with George Soros was at the hub of the vast illegal network of the BCCI.

He has not used his billions to advance the cause of good, or help his people, he's used it to undermine the political process, and is on record as saying he was going to defeat George Bush at any cost.

George Soros, one of the world's richest men, has given away nearly $5 billion to promote democracy in the former Soviet bloc, Africa and Asia. Now he has a new project: defeating President Bush.

Soros's Deep Pockets vs. Bush

176 Rayra

repeated incidents of falsified (D) voter registrations

Yeah, the Democratic Party itself is guilty of that. And so are the Republicans too, I am sure. So both the Democratic Party and Republican Party are "pure evi"l? Do you have any evidence that Soros himself sanctioned any of the "lies" about which you complain?

When you call someone like Soros "pure evil," the term ceases to have any meaning. Hitler was pure evil. Soros is a bizarre, self-righteous dweeb. But not pure evil.

And no need to call me names. Now that's an ad hominem attack.

His funding of the filth generated by MoveOn and their Bush=Hitler ads, his funding of Americans Coming Together (ACT) and their 'buying-votes-with-crack-cocaine' and repeated incidents of falsified (D) voter registrations, the utter LIES spewed by Center for American Progress - which he established / funded.

That ISN'T disagreement, dummy, its SUBVERSION OF THE PROCESS / DEMOCRACY. It's Evil.

You make a good case there Rayra. Soros is scum.

Sorry for this OT

Michael Moore has written a letter to Congress and it's up on his website, about the Ohio recount and blah, blah, blah...they are discussing it on Daily Kos...

#188 AtlasShrugged

You have negated any premise you posted by repeatedly calling Bubble Girl, Bubblehead.

You may F*ck off now.

#177 AtlasShrugged

What worship? I believe in meritocracy, self worth, personal value.

You wrote this earlier:

She is truth and her treastise is the only one that man ought to be living by.

This sounds like a religion and you sound like you're recruiting.

#184 Abu Maven

No, I just despise the some of the other things that he has done with his ample wealth. Here's an article from Fortune magazine (assuredly not an anti-Semitic rag) that will help (I hope) illuminate some of the reasons why I dislike him so:

George Soros Is Mad as Hell

He made billions anticipating blowups. Now he thinks George Bush is creating one.

George Soros owns no private plane, no Caribbean island, no yacht, no ranch in the West, no collection of Old Masters. When he travels to Budapest, the city where he was born and survived the Nazi occupation, he stays in an unfashionable hotel that happens to be nestled in the middle of a beautiful park where he can go for vigorous walks. He travels solo, his wife preferring to stay in the U.S. while he tours his international philanthropic empire. Walking onto a stage in Europe, he is illuminated by the flashes of little pocket cameras that audience members hold over their heads. But offstage he waits in line at the bar for his Campari like everybody else, looking a little lost. He is naturally reserved, and that is somehow accented by his precise Central European inflections. In a public setting he can appear strikingly alone, even lonely, a private man who has found himself living a very public life.

His demeanor belies his influence. George Soros is one of the most successful investors of all time. Even now, though he manages little or no money besides his own, he can move markets with a ten-minute appearance on cable television. Detractors have accused him of destabilizing world currencies and wrecking the economies of entire nations. He is appealing a French conviction for insider trading. He has received humanitarian awards too numerous to count.

Soros has always been a polarizing figure, and over the next few months he is sure to become even more of one, especially in the U.S., where his name has never had the totemic power it does in Europe. At the age of 73, George Soros has found new purpose: He has recast himself as a fierce, angry, partisan critic of the Bush administration and American policy. In what amounts to a barnstorming tour that has taken him from town halls in Seattle to a school of international relations in Baltimore to the World Economic Forum in Athens, Soros has argued that the U.S. right now is in the midst of a crisis. He believes that both at home and abroad, the American government has put in jeopardy the values of openness and democracy in a search for...

Link

The last section of the article, which I highlighted in boldface, pretty much sums up what George Soros is all about these days. And anyone who adheres to such misguided notions about this country and its intentions is no friend of mine, or America.

183 pooklebinky

If Kerry uttered the proposition, "I am opposed to driving SUV's," this evidence shows that his statement is false. It does not have any bearing on the validity of his arguments- it shows he has lied about himself.

Well, what it really shows is that he's full of shit. Same with Rand.

Granted, it doesn't mean that what Rand was saying was bullshit. But it does illustrate that Rand herself was a hypocrite.

185 Sarah

Atlas is a philosopher lover and nothing is allowed other than that. I don't happen to agree with many philosophers, and I note that most are athiests.

It is unnecessary for you to "explain" me to the curious masses. I am an objectivist, a passionate zionist, and a believer in FREEDOM AND CAPITALISM. Period. Unqualified freedom.
Whether Ayn Rand was able to find personal happiness is of no import to me, completely irrelevant. Her theory of objectivism is one that was designed with and for the true nature of man.

#173 Dances With Dhimmis

Same. Soros got all of my 5 votes.

I think Soros is an big idiot wasting his money the way he is. I wish he would invest it in Israel. There are many small companies here that could use the funding. And an infusion of a billion dollars into Israeli venture capital could be well rewarded.

#149 rightasrain:

I, also, wrote to Soros's website just after the election, to, well... gloat. I got some e-mail form letter thanking me for my support.

AtlasShrugged:

Take a chill pill, dude. Don't worship sci-fi novels. Those L. Ron Hubbard people concern me, and so do you.

{{{embraces infinity}}}

This thread is getting bitter.

187 Bubble Girl

Abu

Pshew, Bubble of American Supremacy, when I first glanced at that post I thought you were referring to me, I saw the "Bubble" and thought, oh God, what did I do now?

"The Bubble Girl of American Supremacy" -- must be another one of Soros's wacky theories. :)

#195 Rightasrain

What worship? I believe in meritocracy, self worth, personal value.

She is truth and her treastise is the only one that man ought to be living by.

This sounds like a religion and you sound like you're recruiting.

RECRUITING FOR ABSOLUTE FREEDOM. YOU BETCHA RIGHT WHITE AND BLUE ASS I AM!

#199 AtlasShrugged

Whether Ayn Rand was able to find personal happiness is of no import to me, completely irrelevant. Her theory of objectivism is one that was designed with and for the true nature of man.

If it didn't work for her, then it sounds like something was sorely lacking (even if many of the ideas are sound.)

It's like taking advice on how to be happy from someone who ended up committing suicide.

Why couldn't she make her philosophy work for her?

That the ideas I love may come from a hypocrite has no bearing on their validity. Nor would they be more valid if the person who spoke them were an ideal practitioner.

Atlas

Nooo, in order to function one does not need follow a philosophy...You have free will, I'm sure some philsopher came up with that, they've come up with everything...that's what they are, thinkers...You probably need Rand as your moral compass in order to function, I go willy-nilly, it's worked so far...

Except for this guy

If at first you don't succeed, try again. Then quit. There's no use being a damn fool about it.

189 Skippy Moment

He has not used his billions to advance the cause of good

George Soros, one of the world's richest men, has given away nearly $5 billion to promote democracy in the former Soviet bloc, Africa and Asia.

Looks like you've just defeated yourself in an argument?

#204 Pooky

Put that can of gasoline down and back away from the fire... we've had quite enough trouble for one night. *H3* ;-)

#209 pookleblinky

Then you would believe Castro if he said that all human life was sacred.

#213 Sarah D

Do you believe it is more important what a person says, or what they do? Or should I say what speaks loudest, what a person says, or what they do?

Just curious. Cause I'm not sure where the Castro thing is coming from and where you are going with it.

{{{cuddles against a syllogism}}}

Atlas

You probably were born with FREEDOM and CAPITALISM already in your blood, Rand just solidified it for you...

#202 Gunslingah

Sci-fi novels? never read one, never touch the stuffL L.Ron Hubbard, you are watching too many Cruise movies dude.
Pick up Rand's Romantic manifesto
Rands greatest girft was her passioante simplicity. It is a shame that some people get so caught up in their personal disagreements with Ayn that they are unable to review any of her works objectively

If you can put Rand nd Hubbard in the same sentence it is clear you don't know shit about what I am talking about

#193 Rayra

Classic LLLiberal fuckstick that you are, you ignore the very real suffering of millions of people his currency manipulations brought about - you don't have any clue at all about the economic impacts of his little stunt do you.

You a stupid commie fsckhead! Go grab that hammer and sickle and your karl marx, and get fsck outa here!

#213

The proposition "All human life is sacred" does not depend on who says it for its validity. The existence of Hitler, Castro, and Pol Pot falsify this proposition. It does not matter who utters it, or its refutation.

197 Dances with Dhimmis,

I agree with you. I don't like Soros, and I think his fanatical Bush hatred is disturbing. I also find my brother's fanatical Bush hatred disturbing (and my brother is very far from LLL).

In any event, neither is "pure evil."

#216

syllogism = 1. Logic. A form of deductive reasoning consisting of a major premise, a minor premise, and a conclusion; for example, All humans are mortal, the major premise, I am a human, the minor premise, therefore, I am mortal, the conclusion.
2. Reasoning from the general to the specific; deduction.
3. A subtle or specious piece of reasoning.

which one are you embracing? and who has brought you to this? which poster?

(Getting a running start) I nominate Gen. Joseph Hoar for 2005.

SkippyMoment

:) :)

PIMF!

Falsifies*

#220 pookleblinky

You didn't answer the question:

Then you would believe Castro if he said that all human life was sacred.

Answer the question please. It's a yes or no.

#224 bubbles

:-) back at ya.

#220 pookleblinky

The proposition "All human life is sacred" does not depend on who says it for its validity. The existence of Hitler, Castro, and Pol Pot falsify this proposition. It does not matter who utters it, or its refutation.

What does this mean? Do you believe what a person says is more or less important than what they do?

#218 AtlasShrugged:

See, that's what I'm talking about. Ayn Rand was a fiction writer, but, when anyone criticizes her work, you launch into personal attacks. I mean, we can sit here and debate the relative merits of objectivism all we want, but when you feel compelled to insult and question the intelligence of anyone who disagrees with you... it just seems that you are veering dangerously close to the whole cult of personality thing.

Just my opinion... I could be wrong...

Bubble Girl

FREE WILL is the very essense of Rand's philosophy. Yes.
She outlines in master strokes how THE WORLD (not just little ole me) should be free and explains in the smallest detail how society must function in order for man to be free.

WHAT IS IT YOU ALL ARE RAILING AGAINST- FREEDOM?
FREE WILL?

I know it's temporary, but I just cast a tie breaking vote!

Yippie!

1. Michael Moore 3067
2. Kofi Annan 3066

#215 skippyMoment

Think for a moment on communist history. Did any truth matter? What one said and what one did were two totally different issues. People were condemned for thinking.

Ayn counteracted this with Objectivity...very admirable...but hardly someting to wordhip.

#208 Rightasrain

Why couldn't she make her philosophy work for her?

Do you even know what you're talking about?

These should be different awards.

1. Kofi is an amiable useful idiot who probably doesn't understand what he does.
2. Michael Moore is a cynical, narcissistic liar who simply doesn't care.

Why not separate Fiskies appropriate for each?

Kofi for Idiotarian of the Year.
Mikey for Narcissitic Moonbat of the Year.

#228 gunslingah

Or you just might be right!

#226

Sarah, I did. There is no relation between the proposition and the person who says it. If Hitler says, "I believe all human life is sacred," his actions shows that he is lying. It does not, however, have anything to do with the truth of the proposition "All human life is sacred."

It matters not whether the speaker is the most evil, genocidal, child-raping dingo-snuffing cat-stomping ant-Semite, the proposition has nothing to do with him. His actions can prove that he is lying, but they do not say anything about the proposition or argument which he advocates. This is the basic principle which allows rational people to argue about ideas, and not get sidetracked into biographical nastiness.

Atlas,

That's Dr. Bubble Girl, to you...

Bubblehead, Sybil? How bout Inflexible Anal Retentive Narrow minded twit?

Rayra,

According to one of the links, Soros has given "$15 million for America Coming Together; $3 million for John Podesta's new think tank; and $2.5 million for MoveOn.org"

Ok, so $20 million to defeat Bush.

$5 billion to spread freedom and democracy in the former Soviet bloc, Africa and Asia.

Pure evil I tell you.

#234 Sarah D:

My ex-wife would certainly never admit to that possibility!

#229 AtlasShrugged

She outlines in master strokes how THE WORLD (not just little ole me) should be free and explains in the smallest detail how society must function in order for man to be free.

Down to the smallest detail, eh? Doesn't sound very free to me. :)

WHAT IS IT YOU ALL ARE RAILING AGAINST- FREEDOM? FREE WILL?

Atlas, for heaven's sake - SHE DIDN'T INVENT THESE CONCEPTS.

The principles of both FREEDOM and FREE WILL have been in the Jewish Bible for 3400 years.

I don't care how good you think her fiction novels were, but atheism is NOT a cure-all end-all even if it happens to agree with religious principles like FREEDOM and FREE WILL.

#231 Sarah D.

Think for a moment on communist history. Did any truth matter? What one said and what one did were two totally different issues. People were condemned for thinking.

Ayn counteracted this with Objectivity...very admirable...but hardly someting to wordhip.

Okay, so let me see if I'm following this, you are arguing that even though Castro and communisim is for the people, in truth and in action, it was anything but?

I'm not familiar with Ayn's writings, so I won't enter that part of the conversation.

But, I'm curious if you are a believer in the principles of communisim as a theory, or not a believer. Incidentially, some postulate that communisim had its roots in the bible, specifically stemming from the book of Acts. The problem with it is it wasn't sustainable then in the days immediately following Jesus' time on earth, and it's bastardize version we know today is even less supportable. The people in Cuba are suffering under it's oppression and lack of 'community'. IMHO

Several of these people would be shot dead if they lived in another nation, or in a different time. They are pure traitors who can and will lend much comfort to the enemy.

I am constantly torn over whether America is greater for the supreme tolerance necessary to let Ramsey Clark et al go on breathing, or whether instead America is supremely foolish and short-sighted and for the same reason.

Some of each, I suppose. Never forget though people like those on the list caused America to lose a war in Vietnam and thereby ushered in a Communist orgy of killing not seen since the Holocaust.

I also understand that at different times in her history America would imprison or even execute traitors for far less than many of these vermin have done.

Atlas -

Nope, not railing against Free Will, or Freedom, it just that somehow I am able to have Freedom and a Free Will without following Rand...HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE, I DON"T FOLLOW RAND...I MUST NOT KNOW FUCKING ANYTHING ABOUT FREE WILL BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW RAND>>>>>>>

#235 pookleblinky

Bullshit. When you say something, and people believe/listen to it, words count. The words are directly related to the person who spoke them. To try and state that they aren't is really stupid.

You are trying to say that words cannot be attributed to the speaker.

Wrong.

I hate Ayn Rand's books - booorrring. (Yawns)

The movie on her life was good, though. :)

Rayra,

Go re-read the thread. Numerous people called Soros "pure" evil. Not a strawman. Simply responding to the actual arguments advanced on this thread.

"Beat Bush at any cost"? Big deal.

I personally was on board with the "beat Kerry at any cost" bandwagon this election? Guess that makes me pure evil? Or is it just evil?

And by the way, why do you get so angry? You keep saying I'm dumb and stuff. Give me a break.

"If you can be an atheist or a rabbi in a society, without being burned alive, cut up, wife raped and tortured, property stolen, and children sold; then you are in a free society. A free society is free precisely because it does not matter whether you are an atheist or a rabbi." Groucho Marx

237 Bubble girl

Bubblehead, Sybil? How bout Inflexible Anal Retentive Narrow minded twit?

ROTFLMAO...cant beleive I wrote Bubblehead, must have been fruedian as it was completely unintentional.

And while I may be anal in a different context, I am hardly narrow. I am not a flipflopper and have a spine of steel. I believe in my strong opinions becuase they are data based. Twit is not even deserving of a retort so I forgo the one-up -manship ...so that a productive thought provoking argument might ensue

we live in hope

#239 gunslingah

Sorry, I should have stated...you might be right unless you're a man!

:-)

_{[Ex-wives are a bitch...I am one, so I know!]}

PIMF
believe
Freudian

The truth is the truth regardless of who utters it. The person may not actually take actions or make decisions that are consistent with the utterence but it does not negate the truth of the statement. "All life is sacred." Is the truth wether uttered by Ghandi or Stalin. I believe that Ghandi meant it/believed while Stalin,who by his actions showed that he did not.

243 Bubble Girl,

Rand is Pure Truth. You don't know what freedom is. You think you do, but you don't. You are a slave.

You people just don't understand. Rand is The Answer.

/AtlasShrugged Off

#241 skippyMoment

Okay, so let me see if I'm following this, you are arguing that even though Castro and communisim is for the people, in truth and in action, it was anything but?

Yeah.

I like to keep a bottle of stimulant handy in case I see a snake, which I also keep handy.

soros (may his name be obliterated) may have been born a Jew, but is no friend of the Jews..he is a self-hating Jew, and a shanda (disgrace) to us: In rare Jewish appearance, George Sorossays Jews and Israel cause anti-Semitism

It´s not often that George Soros, the billionaire financier and philanthropist, makes an appearance before a Jewish audience.
It´s even rarer for him to use such an occasion to talk about Israel, Jews and his own role in effecting political change.

So when Soros stepped to the podium Nov. 5 to address those issues at a conference of the Jewish Funders Network, audience members were listening carefully.

Many were surprised by what they heard.

When asked about anti-Semitism in Europe, Soros, who is Jewish, said European anti-Semitism is the result of the policies of Israel and the United States.

"There is a resurgence of anti-Semitism in Europe. The policies of the Bush administration and the Sharon administration contribute to that," Soros said. "It´s not specifically anti-Semitism, but it does manifest itself in anti- Semitism as well. I´m critical of those policies."

"If we change that direction, then anti-Semitism also will diminish," he said. "I can´t see how one could confront it directly."

That is a point made by Israel´s most vociferous critics, whom some Jewish activists charge with using anti-Zionism as a guise for anti-Semitism.

The billionaire financier said he, too, bears some responsibility for the new anti-Semitism, citing last month´s speech by Malaysia´s outgoing prime minister, Mahathir Mohammad, who said, "Jews rule the world by proxy."

"I´m also very concerned about my own role because the new anti-Semitism holds that the Jews rule the world," said Soros, whose projects and funding have influenced governments and promoted various political causes around the world.

"As an unintended consequence of my actions," he said, "I also contribute to that image."

In the past, Mahathir has singled out Soros and other "Jewish financiers" for financial pressure that Mahathir said has harmed Malaysia´s economy.

After the conference, some Jewish leaders who heard about the speech reacted angrily to Soros´ remarks.

"Let´s understand things clearly: Anti-Semitism is not caused by Jews; it´s caused by anti-Semites," said Elan Steinberg, senior adviser at the World Jewish Congress. "One can certainly be critical of Bush policy or Sharon policy, but any deviation from the understanding of the real cause of anti-Semitism is not merely a disservice, but a historic lie."

See rest of article. I repeat: he is a bastard.

#250 Sarah D:

...you might be right unless you're a man!

NOW, you're sounding like the ex-wife I used to love!

;)

LOL

Abu

LOL --We are all in fine form tonight...There isn't a full moon out, is there?

#254 Elbarto

Yes! You made a point without calling anyone a twit, pulsating sack of shit, or a commie!

The miracles of rational thought!

#257 gunslingah

Not a man...and I do understand!

Ohhh, that rhymes! Cool!

What is Objectivism?

My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.

— Ayn Rand, Appendix to Atlas Shrugged

Why is Objectivism a System of Ideas?

I am not primarily an advocate of capitalism, but of egoism; and I am not primarily an advocate of egoism, but of reason. If one recognizes the supremacy of reason and applies it consistently, all the rest follows.

— Ayn Rand, "Introducing Objectivism" The Objectivist Newsletter Vol. 1 No. 8 August, 1962 p. 35

What is the Objectivist View of Reality (Metaphysics)?

Reality exists as an objective absolute—facts are facts, independent of man's feelings, wishes, hopes or fears.

— Ayn Rand, "Introducing Objectivism" The Objectivist Newsletter Vol. 1 No. 8 August, 1962 p. 35

More stuff...

Objectivism holds that there is one reality, the one in which we live. It is self-evident that reality exists and is what it is: our job is to discover it. Objectivism stands against all forms of metaphysical relativism or idealism. It holds it as undeniable that humans have free will, and opposes metaphysical determinism or fatalism. More generally, it holds that there is no fundamental contradiction between the free, abstract character of mental life and the physical body in which it resides. And so it denies the existence of any "supernatural" or ineffable dimension for spirits or souls.

I'm absolutely NOT impressed.

It's atheism. So what?

#256 NY Nana:

Thanks. Back to the thread:

George Soros is a pure, rotten, evil bastard who, after stealing his fortune, tried his level best to steal our election. The Fiskie may not be the reward he deserves, but it is the best we can offer at this particular time.

OT

Oliver Stone blames blue-state bigots for the failure of his cruddy film "Alexander":

Stone blames 'fundamentalism' in US for 'Alexander' flop
LONDON, Jan 5 (AFP) - Oscar-winning writer-director Oliver Stone blamed "raging fundamentalism in morality" Wednesday for the frosty reception that his new film "Alexander" is getting in his native United States.

In London for its British premiere, Stone, 58, said that after a career full of cage-rattling work, he thought a biopic of Alexander the Great, the 4th century Macedonian-born conquerer, would be "a safe subject".

But he said he was "quite taken aback by the controversy and fierceness of the reviews" which greeted its US release, including outrage at the film's suggestion that Alexander was bisexual.

"Sexuality is a large issue in America right now, but it isn't so much in other countries," he said.

"There's a raging fundamentalism in morality in the United States. From day one audiences didn't show up. They didn't even read the reviews in the south because the media was using the words: 'Alex is Gay'."

Waaah! Nobody went to my campy bellyflop-of-a-movie! It must be those evil Republicans. You're all a bunch of fundie redneck knuckleheads! Now go to my movie, you loathsome morons!"

El Barto

Yes, the same goes for art, we can't hate the artist can we if the art is worthy.

Except Hitler was an artist, as was John W Gacy...

man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life

If it feels good, do it.

/eyes rolling

256 Nana

The fact that he lumps himself in there as a supposed "cause of anti-Semitism" shows that he's moronic, not evil, or as you say, a bastard.

#252 elbarto

The truth is the truth regardless of who utters it. The person may not actually take actions or make decisions that are consistent with the utterence but it does not negate the truth of the statement. "All life is sacred." Is the truth wether uttered by Ghandi or Stalin. I believe that Ghandi meant it/believed while Stalin,who by his actions showed that he did not.

Perhaps you are right when you say that truth is truth regardless of who says it, but if the person saying it isn't truthful, if their actions belie that truth, how can what they say be truth?

Yes the idea of the statement "All life is sacred." is a truism for most, but not for all. If it was true for all, then we wouldn't have the deathpenalty, or abortions, or murders, or genocide.

You can accept the statement as truth, but if someone doesn't accept that truth, or doesn't validate that truth?

I guess my point is your point. That your actions are more important than what you say. To say 'All life is sacred" then to act contrary invalidates your statement.

AtlasShrugged, you've been curiously quiet lately.

Wassup?

264 Rayra

That's beautiful. Nothing finer than seeing somebody try a cheap shot when they don't know who or what they are speaking to, and getting SPANKED for it.

My thoughts exactly with respect to your comments in this thread.

#196 Rayra

you seem to have left off '...and retrieved my firearm, readying it for use'.

Yes, I know. I haven't owned a firearm in years and I suddenly felt very naked...

#263 zombie

Waaah! Nobody went to my campy bellyflop-of-a-movie! It must be those evil Republicans. You're all a bunch of fundie redneck knuckleheads! Now go to my movie, you loathsome morons!"

I think we can safely state that Stone has jumped the shark.

256 NY Nana

Ok, I've been studying up on "Idiotarian" - I'm starting to lean towards Soros (metaphorically). Your post gave me a shove in that direction.

A. Idiotarian world views have at their center a desire for something good.

B. Idiotarians won't consider anything that seems to run contrary to the world they want.

C. Because of A, they are at least complicit in evil, and often actively helpful to evil causes.

Rather is kind of a self-serving hack.
Annan is kind of a useful idiot hack.
Soros - ahhh.

Think I am starting to understand.

Zombie,

I am always suspicious of a film review from Larry King, Ebert and what's his name, or any critic... Anytime an ad for a movie runs for over two minutes you can bet the film sucks...

So if man's highest moral aspiration is to be happy, then did Ayn Rand's unhappiness make her a slut? :)

#254 Sarah D

Okay, so what's the disagreement with pookleblinkey? It sounds like you are both saying the same thing, but differently.

Or are you arguing that what someone does doesn't matter if he says the right things?

#266 rightasrain

If it feels good, do it.

is that really how you see this?

man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life

please reread several times and THINK. I know you have it in you

#250 Sarah D:

Oh, and Sarah, don't feel bad about being an ex-. It's all part of the learning process...

#256 NY Nana.

Me thinks Soros himself is a source for antiSemitism. (Just kidding). I wonder what Soros would say to such a charge? And why do I have the feeling that idiot would agree.

Soros was using his millions in order to make billions from the falling dollar, something he was betting on if the election went his way...Everything he did was for future gains of his own...Not evil, but he could be in the next 007 movie as an Archvillain, along with Mike The Fatman Moore, and Kofi Annan...

I haven't read every post of this thread, but I can see we're having a big argument about Ayn Rand. My only comment is: Anthem was a great book. Regardless of her personal life or whatever else she wrote, on the basis of that one work she earned my admiration.

Oh yeah, one more thing: you're all a bunch of commie pea-brained inbred ragpickers. There -- now I feel like I fit right in.