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Kosgate in Slate

Sat, Jan 15, 2005 at 2:16:41 pm PST

At Slate, Chris Suellentrop says Daily Kos should hang. (Hat tip: Allah.)

Moulitsas’ crime isn’t taking money from Howard Dean. He, too, can get away with a suspended sentence for insufficiently disclosing his role in the Dean campaign once he was off the payroll. The hanging offense is that Moulitsas took money from other, undisclosed, political clients. And while he may have disclosed—in 2003—that he wouldn’t disclose them, that’s not good enough. DailyKos raised money for a dozen congressional candidates this past election. Which, if any, of them paid Moulitsas for the honor of directing his grassroots minions to part with their wallets? If you gave one of Moulitsas’ preferred candidates money, wouldn’t you like to know if Moulitsas’ endorsement was purchased? ...

The lesson for a campaign is obvious: Got a story you can’t convince a mainstream reporter to run? Leak it anonymously to a blog on your payroll. Then get a local reporter to write a story on the controversial, gossipy, local political blog. Soon everyone in town will be talking about the story you leaked to the blog. Voila! Eventually a mainstream news organization will run a story on the rumor that “everyone is talking about.” Or they’ll do a “what people are buzzing about on the Internet” piece. And no one will know that the blog post was a paid placement until after the election.

If Moulitsas takes money from political candidates in 2006 and 2008 without telling you who’s paying him, stop giving his recommended candidates your dollars. Here’s what Moulitsas wrote about payola pundit Armstrong Williams’ assertion that “There are others” on the government dole: “Until names are named, we can assume every conservative pundit is on the White House’s payola rolls.” That’s questionable logic, but let’s take Moulitsas up on his challenge: Until names are named, we can assume every Daily Kos candidate this past election wrote him a check for his consulting work.

Another tidbit that Suellentrop doesn’t point out: all of the candidates endorsed by Markos “Screw Them” Zuniga lost their elections.

UPDATE at 1/15/05 3:11:58 pm:

Hugh Hewitt has quite a bit to say about the issue, and about his appearance on the Bill O’Reilly show. He states:

Bloggers should disclose —prominently and repeatedly— when they are receiving payments from individuals or organizations about whom or which they are blogging. Period.

I agree; and here is LGF’s Full Disclosure.

UPDATE at 1/15/05 4:24:21 pm:

PC Magazine columnist John C. Dvorak notes that the reaction of lefty bloggers to Kosgate leaves a lot to be desired: Screw Ethics Says Top Blogger.

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348 comments

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1 Gringo  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 12:23:26pm

One more reason to say that Daily Kos readers should examine themselves closely.

2 Norwegian kafir  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 12:24:23pm

America's Compassion in Iraq Is Self-Destructive

Fighting a compassionate war is immoral; it is costing the lives of American soldiers in Iraq and emboldening our enemies throughout the Islamic world.

For the enemies of America, Iraq is like a laboratory where they are testing our mettle, with mounting ferocity. The negotiations with Sadr; the half-hearted raids on Fallujah; our timid response to daily insurrections throughout Iraq; America's outrageously deferential treatment of its enemies--all of these instances of moral weakness reinforce the view of bin Laden and his ilk that America will appease those who seek its destruction. If we continue to confess doubts about our moral right to defend ourselves, it will only be a matter of time before Islamic militants bring suicide-bombings and mass murder (again) to the streets of the United States.

Though Washington may be blinded by the longing to buy the love of Iraqis, our servicemen know all too well that (as one put it): "When you go to fight, it's time to shoot--not to make friends with people." In its might and courage our military is unequaled; it is the moral responsibility of Washington to issue battle plans that will properly "shock and awe" the enemy. Eschewing self-interest in the name of compassion is immoral. The result is self-destruction.

3 Carl in Jerusalem  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 12:24:25pm

I wonder if you can run a blog from behind bars.

4 Village Idiot's Apprentice  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 12:24:37pm

Goes to show you, Kos will sleep with anyone if the money is right.
Now what was the old fashioned term for those people again.....

Ah, it will come to me later

5 MJ  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 12:25:03pm

The self-righteousness of the DailyKos and those who frequent that site is enough to make even Jimmy Carter blush. As the internet bully that Moulitsas has become, it does a heart good to see him get his comeuppance.
Oh Kos, by the way, Screw-You!

6 BenZacharia  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 12:26:11pm

Failing upwards.

7 Gringo  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 12:26:17pm

Correction: Daily Kos believers should examine themselves closely. Some only read it for laughs.

8 Luigi  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 12:26:20pm

Now that his client lost, Kos is trying to scare up some new business.

9 JSingleton  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 12:26:44pm

Allah? Is he returning to the blogosphere? His link is, like Franco, still dead.

10 MJ  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 12:28:02pm

OT

Check out this headline from al-Reuters:

"Abbas Sworn in as President, Israel Kills 8 in Gaza"
[Link: story.news.yahoo.com...]

I hate those bastards.

11 realwest  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 12:36:16pm

#1 Gringo - There's no chance in hell that I'd be willing to examine, uh, wait a minute you said they should examine THEMSELVES more closely. Whew!
never mind.

12 Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 12:37:04pm

all of the candidates endorsed by Markos “Screw Them” Zuniga lost their elections.

Ah, something ELSE that he and nodroG have in common.

13 gargamel  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 12:37:24pm

wasn't there some shady exit poll data published on the KOS site during election day?

14 HULUGU  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 12:38:24pm

someone should come up with a blogger's code of ethics and an association like a better bloggers bureau with a seal of approval and all--keep it private sector and voluntary- just a thought--otherwise bloggola will zoom out of control--not all men are as moral as chuckie here--especially on the left--although armstrong williams is a greedhead ass

15 Red_CA_Island  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 12:38:52pm

#3 Carl In Jerusalem

I wonder if you can run a blog from behind bars.

For goodness sake, don't lock him up. Look at the batting average. Make him go into the political consulting business with Bob Shrum and drive as many lib candidates to him as we can.

16 Idle Fellow  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 12:41:22pm

Kos has poster the email addresses of a bunch of journalists on his site. I'm not sure what he did was that bad, but now he's going to be a facilitator for hate email attacks. That's pretty low.

By the way, in Australia we call it 'cash for comment' ... where does the term 'payola' come from?

17 foreign devil  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 12:41:40pm

BUSTED!

18 BingoBunny  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 12:41:55pm

Great job KOS..with work like that you'll be looking forward to social security..

19 Gossard187  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 12:42:29pm

#14 HULUGU

Well there's the Blogging Academy, maybe they can start a certification program.

20 J.D.  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 12:42:35pm

I wish I didn't have to do this, but there's one small glitch.
In Kentucky, Ben Chandler won in a February special election (Chandler was running for governor the previous November and lost to Rep. Fletcher, then ran for the House seat vacated by Fletcher in Febuary and won it). The Chandler campaign advertised on and was endorsed by kos.
KY6: CHANDLER WINS!

21 mickthemick  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 12:44:28pm
Another tidbit that Suellentrop doesn’t point out: all of the candidates endorsed by Markos “Screw Them” Zuniga lost their elections.

It is not surprising when losers endorse losers, but the Kos bunch are not only out of touch with America, they're out of touch with reality most of the time.

22 HULUGU  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 12:44:33pm

payola is from dj's taking cash to play records on the radio--derived from playola or pay to play it on the victrola--on the web we should call it BLOGGOLA

23 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 12:44:49pm

Zunigas proves that, politics (being the second oldest profession) bears an awful lot of resemblence to the first.

What always gets me, though, is to go on Kos' site and have one of the faithful go on about how sites like FreeRepublic and LGF are "giving the blogosphere a bad name." For those of you keeping score at home, that's what we call "irony."

24 Murder  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 12:44:49pm

Well, it's just natural. These lefty bloggers daily demonstrate what a bunch of unthinking tools they are. They show their willingness to believe anything as long as it's in the realm of Bush being Hitler. They defend Dan Rather, and every other miscreant on the left. They are like the rotten tooth blaming all of the other teeth for the excruciating pain. What a beautiful assortment of plums for Dean & Co. to select from.

25 HULUGU  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 12:46:58pm

GO SANTANA MOSS!

26 BingoBunny  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 12:47:50pm

I just had a thought.. remember the blog contest that KOS tried to stack in his favor.. isn't that like a station faking its listeners , viewers so they get higher add money..wonder if his contracts included some bonus money for higher bloger readers.

27 AG in Houston  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 12:49:24pm

If Markos Moulitsas is the person the Slate piece is referring to, who is the Markos Zuniga to which Charles refers?

They are the same person, right?

28 Lively  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 12:49:47pm

I read this link via Drudge that said in Alabama a mom killed her daughter by forcing her to drink bleach. The mom thought her daughter was no longer a virgin. The mom's name is Tunisia Archie.

Does this sound like an honor killing? Of course, the article makes no mention of it.

29 Cornholio  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 12:50:06pm
all of the candidates endorsed by Markos “Screw Them” Zuniga lost their elections.

Hahaha! I look forward to more of Mr. Zuniga's endorsements of radical-left politicians.

30 2X4 wielder  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 12:50:54pm

I think hanging is a bit extreme. It would be more fitting to tar and feather DailyKos and run it out of Blogtown on a rail. Well, maybe that is what the Slate article's aim is. And to Markos & his freinds, if you read this, screw you!

31 Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 12:50:57pm

#27 AG in Houston

If Markos Moulitsas is the person the Slate piece is referring to, who is the Markos Zuniga to which Charles refers?

*gasp* By Jove, you've got it!

32 Gossard187  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 12:51:16pm

#27 AG in Houston
Moulitsas is his last name, Zuniga is part of his name that comes at the end... its Spanish wackiness I guess.

33 foreign devil  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 12:51:32pm

#27 AG in Houston:

Markos Moulitsos Zuniga.

34 Mr Pol  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 12:52:13pm

I once said Kos is a son of a bitch. I was wrong. I apologize to his mother. She ain't done anything.

35 foreign devil  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 12:55:05pm

Quite simply, folks, when you respond to ANYTHING Markos says when he's taunting you, you're really talking to J.Walter Thompson or some PR firm. So since he isn't a blogger but a "wholly-owned subsidiary of a Washington, P.R. firm" why bother? From now on nothing he says is important personally, because he ISN'T REAL. He is like an "billboard" except he's on the Net. Would you respond to a dumb billboard?

36 HULUGU  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 12:55:56pm

is he related to actress daphne zuniga or is she clean of taint?

37 biff  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 12:58:57pm

OT - Does anyone else think that Graner just got the shaft in order to prevent further inquiry? I have no doubt these people were told to do what they were doing (albeit somewhat creatively.) Had he not been screwing Lyndie England, would he have been singled out this way? What kind of pressure goes on in those military juries? Were any of them free to vote for a not guilty verdict? I doubt it. What these guards did was sooooooooo minimal in terms of abuse, and was probably viewed at the time as legitimate interrogation prep. It's like no one in this country (no one in any kind of authority) has the balls to stand up and say what a hell of a lot of people are thinking.

Just my 2c.

38 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:00:02pm
39 hs  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:00:32pm

Excerpt from Laura Gross letter of Democracy for America

So I got a call Thursday from the Jeanne Cummings, The Wall Street Journal reporter who covered the Dean campaign. By all accounts, she did a fine job -- covered all aspects of the campaign, even met the Web team and wrote a long story on their work. She was calling, she said, on behalf of some of her paper's reporters in Boston who were looking into a story about the campaign and the blogs.

She said she thought she knew what was going on, and we talked "on background" so she could "just clear things up once and for all" -- that is, not for attribution. By the end of the conversation she had confirmed what she thought -- that there was no news, that this was what she called a "dead story" -- and said that she didn't think there would be any article at all, much less one that mentioned Dean. She said that if for some reason she needed a quote she'd call me back.

Next thing I know there appears in the WSJ an article so sloppy and so inaccurate that I spent the morning trying to track Jeanne down to find out what happened. She called me back at 10:30 a.m. -- and actually apologized for the article (written by two colleagues). She said that she wouldn't work with those reporters in the same capacity again, would only give them on-the-record quotes and assured me that she had notified her editors.

Jeanne's colleagues committed a journalistic no-no: they took her background conversation with me and made up a quote from "a Dean spokeswoman". Their fake quote had this spokeswoman apparently admitting that the bloggers were paid for promoting the campaign. They completely mischaracterized our conversation -- and Jeanne was rightly upset about it. I was, and am, too.

For those of you who are interested in facts, and not the right-wing smear machine innuendo, go to DailyKos are read the whole letter.

40 Craig Abu Al-Boo-Boo  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:01:19pm

Whose payroll is Wonkette on?

If the Kerry campaing gave her bogus exit poll numbers, maybe they gave her a check too.

41 Skippy  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:01:26pm

Another unanswered question here. Did Zuniga "consult" for candidates in competition with one another? Are there undisclosed conflicts of interest that Zuniga failed to reveal to his readers? His clients?

42 AG in Houston  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:02:02pm

Gotcha!

Markos Zuniga Moulitsas ibn Fucknut!

43 Luigi  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:03:02pm

From debka

Israeli girl of 15 and small boy in critical condition with head wounds sustained by direct Qassam missile hits of their homes in Sderot Saturday night after daylong Palestinian attacks on Israeli targets in and around Gaza Strip. Earlier, mortar shell struck Netzarim synagogue in Gaza Strip, injuring two children. Seven-year old boy lost an arm.


Now I know how this Abbas character survived all those years at Arafat's side. He isn't just stupid, he's crazy. How many weeks before he's forced to live in a bunker a la Arafat? Or killed outright?

44 mickthemick  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:07:00pm

#39 hs
When does Kos ever concern himself with facts? And who cares about the Dean campaign? Any contributions Kos made to it became irrelevant the moment Dean dropped out of the presidential race. Here's the money quote:

The hanging offense is that Moulitsas took money from other, undisclosed, political clients. And while he may have disclosed—in 2003—that he wouldn’t disclose them, that’s not good enough. DailyKos raised money for a dozen congressional candidates this past election. Which, if any, of them paid Moulitsas for the honor of directing his grassroots minions to part with their wallets?

Kos still has a lot of explaining to do.

45 SwampWoman  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:07:56pm

#37 biff

OT - Does anyone else think that Graner just got the shaft in order to prevent further inquiry? I have no doubt these people were told to do what they were doing (albeit somewhat creatively.) Had he not been screwing Lyndie England, would he have been singled out this way? What kind of pressure goes on in those military juries? Were any of them free to vote for a not guilty verdict? I doubt it. What these guards did was sooooooooo minimal in terms of abuse, and was probably viewed at the time as legitimate interrogation prep. It's like no one in this country (no one in any kind of authority) has the balls to stand up and say what a hell of a lot of people are thinking.

Just my 2c.

Um, biff, are you asking whether the military brass would order the courts martial members to vote a guilty verdict regardless of the evidence?

46 Spiny Norman  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:08:06pm

Markos Moulitsas Zuniga

or

Markos Zuniga Moulitsas

Hmmm, I'm not really up on how Spanish surnames work, but is Zuniga his mother's last name? Maybe that's why his fans (syncophants) at Fark.com get so riled when I refer to him as Markos Zuniga...

47 Nukevet  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:09:32pm

Pretty interesting to watch the bile and hatred being directed towards Zephyr Teachout because she had the gall to disclose that Marcos was receiving money from Dean.

Zonkette

48 Orson Buggy  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:10:33pm

#36 HULUGU

[is she clean of taint? ]

Hmmm, something to meditate on for sure. ;)

49 bolivar  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:20:09pm

Ahhhhhh, KOS the kiss of death! Doncha just love it chick a boom!

50 Ojoe  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:20:36pm

Here's my disclosure: I live in California, which was going to go for Kerry anyway, so I sent twenty bucks to the swiftboat vets - cash in an envelope - and I hope they used it to order pizza with anchovies for the office staff.

51 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:22:48pm

Think Kos will be invited to the 2008 DNC?

Where will they hold the 2008 DNC? Hopefully, someplace that shows their disdain of the dumb hicks in flyover country. Maybe San Francisco or Hollywood.

Good football game on CBS. I'd boycott this game, but I'm weak.

52 SunCat  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:24:01pm

AIR, Charles came up with the terms Lizardoid and Lizardoid Minions to mock those who acted asn if he were part of a conspiracy. I see that Kos really has engaged in conspiracy.

53 Luigi  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:25:45pm

OT

I like to link to this happy little journal once in a while

Good News From Israel

54 Jamie  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:26:47pm

Very poor judgement by Kos. A shame, since, as someone not at home on either the left or right, I've long sought a left-leaning site to balance what I read at LGF. Kos just won't seem to cut it.

Curious, though, Suellentrop and others ignore the taxpayer dollars that Armstrong Williams quietly got to shill for Bush.

55 Geepers  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:27:32pm

Markos' "full" disclosure includes "non-disclose" clauses and lots of things he won't discuss.

But for the record, I will not discuss my role within the Dean campaign, other than to say it's technical, not message or strategy. I will also not discuss any of my other clients, including their identities (I have non-disclose agreements to which I must adhere).

Not exactly a "full" disclosure in my book.

More like CYA.

56 norar  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:28:40pm

#39 hs

From the "letter" you posted:

Their fake quote had this spokeswoman apparently admitting that the bloggers were paid for promoting the campaign. They completely mischaracterized our conversation -- and Jeanne was rightly upset about it. I was, and am, too.

The relevant quote from WSJ article:

A spokeswoman for Mr. Dean said the two bloggers hired by the campaign did nothing unethical because both disclosed their connection to the Dean operation.

So, as everyone can see it's Ms Gross, the author of your "letter", who misstates the facts, as the WSJ aricle does not refer to Kos as "promoting the campaign", and only makes reference to a known fact reported by Zuniga himself, i.e. that he was "hired by the [Dean's] campaign".

So this whining "letter" by Ms Gross is just another piece of crude Dean's propaganda delivered by the paid hack, and based on misrepresenting facts (it can't be that she has problem with comprehension, can it).

I wonder whether you get paid for posting this crude piece around the blogosphere. :P

57 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:28:50pm

Nukevet- By any chance are you familiar with the A4W/A1G reactor plants that drive the Nimitz class carriers?

Because I think a slightly modified civilian version, staffed by outstanding US Navy nuclear veterans, could greatly reduce America's dependence on Saudi oil, along with other common sense ideas like opening ANWR and offshore Florida to drilling, and perhaps making the first $60,000 of income earned by any degreed petroleum engineer working in the E&P business tax free.

58 Trippin  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:30:34pm

#47 - Yeah I noticed that too. The main criticism against Teachout seems to be that she actually had the "nerve" to reveal their dirty little secret, not the secret itself. The left are like intellectual zombies. I have never seen anything so pathetic and bizarre. It's like a fucking cult.

When Williams was outed, rightwing blogs nailed his ass to the wall. Leftwing blogs practically went ballistic. When the same thing happened to a leftwing nutjob, the leftwingers shot the messenger and tried to rationalize the deception ("technical assistance" my fucking ass).

It's wonderfully entertaining though, you have to admit.

59 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:32:17pm

Momentum shift as Heinz Field?

60 POL_CAT12  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:32:44pm

Here's my disclosure:

All your base are belongs to us

61 mickthemick  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:33:26pm

#57 Ed Moran

Because I think a slightly modified civilian version, staffed by outstanding US Navy nuclear veterans,

Gee, Ed, do you happen to know anyone like that? ;)

62 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:36:21pm

#37 biff

What kind of pressure goes on in those military juries? Were any of them free to vote for a not guilty verdict?

You obviously have no military experience. Graner screwed himself. He chose a jury. He should have chosen for the judge to rule. Graner made all of us look bad. By his choosing a jury he sealed his fate. Good riddance to trash like him.

I have no doubt these people were told to do what they were doing (albeit somewhat creatively.)

You may have "no doubt" but I know he was just an asshole he loved what he did.

Had he not been screwing Lyndie England, would he have been singled out this way?

Screwing your subordinates is also an offense in the military.

and was probably viewed at the time as legitimate interrogation prep.

Oh bullshit.

Just my 2c.

You've been short changed.

63 Mr Pol  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:36:22pm

#61 mickthemick

Gee, Ed, do you happen to know anyone like that? ;)

HWSNBN...

64 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:37:04pm

Mick

Not personally.

65 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:39:12pm

HWSNBN isn't a vet, is he?

66 Mr Pol  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:40:19pm

#65 Ed Moran

HWSNBN isn't a vet, is he?

Yes, he is. Subs. Except for his Judenhass, he's actually a decent person.

67 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:40:44pm

#65 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C

HWSNBN isn't a vet, is he?

IIRC he claimed to be ex Navy...

68 mickthemick  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:41:17pm

#64 Ed Moran
You're a Navy vet, right? Weren't you a Nuke engineer, or am I not recalling facts correctly?

69 ted  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:42:34pm

So what this really means is that Zuniga is just a pimp, pimping the members of his blog to his john[s].. However, at least a regular pimp gives some part of the receipts to his stable ... wonder how the koskids feel about this ?

70 Darleen  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:43:25pm

#9 JSingleton

While Allah let his old site go, he's still kicking a bit here and there and here is his current parking spot, even if the car doesn't pull in very often.

71 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:43:51pm

J - E - T - S

JETS!

JETS!

JETS!



(I was bron in Flushing, NY, former home of the New York Jets

72 ariana  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:45:35pm

Kosgate?

KOS$CAM or TammanyKOS or BossKOS? It would remind people of Tammy Hall. It smacks of greed and payoffs

73 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:45:47pm

I was born in Flushing, but you know what I meant. (Its the barriles de Corona talking. My wife's abuelo, "Popo", brought me back a case of these little squat Corona beers last time he was down in Nuevo Progreso, and I think they taste better than the skinny clear bottles.

Perhaps the brown glass protects the flavor better.

74 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:46:59pm

Mick, you asked if I knew of any outstanding Navy nuclear veterans.

75 mickthemick  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:48:19pm

#73 Ed

Perhaps the brown glass protects the flavor better.

Light isn't good for beer, but I cannot recall what the harmful effects are. Dark glass is better than clear, so you have a point there.

76 Mr Pol  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:48:56pm

#74 Ed Moran

Mick, you asked if I knew of any outstanding Navy nuclear veterans.

Ah, I missed that. Scratch HWSNBN then.

77 mickthemick  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:49:30pm

#74 Ed Moran
LOL! Like I said, I thought I was forgetting a few of the important details! ;)

78 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:50:00pm

#75 mickthemick

Dark glass is better than clear, so you have a point there.

Maybe so, but how many people store their beer in the sun, outside of the carboard boxes...

79 Iron Fist  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:51:00pm

#76 Mr Pol,

Dude, you were scaring me with just the acronym. It must not be named.

(I bet the newbies are scratchin' their heads and wondering if we're violatin' my rule :-)

80 SkippyMoment  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:51:24pm

People who have integrity, a strong sense of what is right and wrong, and respect for the laws of the land rarely get caught with their hands in the cookie jar, because their hands are rarely (read that almost never) in the cookie jar to begin with.

Charles is such a man. And this is yet another reason why LGF is an exceptional blog of the highest integrity.

Let the LLL and Koses of the world have their moral relavatism. I take really morality and integrity any day.

But watch Charles, you make a really big target, and those that hate what you are doing, who hate who you are and what you are doing here will be gunning for you.

Keep figthing the good fight!

81 Mr Pol  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:52:01pm

#78 reaganite

Maybe so, but how many people store their beer in the sun, outside of the carboard boxes...

I see that you believe the little light in the fridge stays off when the door is closed.
:-)

82 Mr Pol  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:52:44pm

#79 Iron Fist

It's safe - kosher salt, three rings...

83 mickthemick  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:52:57pm

#78 reaganite
It isn't just the sun. Flourescent lights in stores are also bad for beer, for example. Again, the reasons why this is so escape me, it has something to do with the way that spectrum of light effects fermented beverages. Hell, I'm no biologist....I'm just a suds hound.

84 SkippyMoment  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:53:06pm

HWSNBN...

hum... dare I ask?

85 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:53:53pm

#81 Mr Pol

I see that you believe the little light in the fridge stays off when the door is closed.

Hah! I know all about the fridge light gnomes, that's why I unscrewed the bulb! :-Þ

86 ariana  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:53:59pm

#80 Skippy

KOSINtheCOOKIeJar?

87 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:54:58pm

#84 SkippyMoment

hum... dare I ask?

No No No!
It stands for He Who Shall Not Be Named!

88 Mr Pol  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:54:59pm

#85 reaganite

Ya think the light gnomes can't screw in a light bulb?

89 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:55:22pm

Uh-oh, the Pittsburgh ground game is getting into gear.

90 ted  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:55:36pm

78 Actually,even small amounts of light can affect beer... Skunky Beer in a Whole New Light

by Cate House



In less than 20 minutes, light can sully a beer.
(click image to enlarge)



f you’ve ever tried to drink a beer that’s been sitting on the shelf a little too long, you’ve no doubt experienced that "skunky" taste beer can have.

Malcolm Forbes, professor of chemistry, explains that the photodegradation of beer—the culprit behind the skunky taste—is similar to what happens to paint when it is exposed to light over long periods of time and begins to fade in color. Light causes the molecules in paint to break apart, and this creates free radicals—molecules with unpaired electrons—which are highly reactive, changing the composition of the paint and consequently it’s color.

Forbes first got the idea for studying the photochemistry of beer after giving a conference talk on a technique known as time-resolved electron paramagnetic resonance spectroscopy (TREPR) that his lab uses for investigating all sorts of thermal and photochemical reactions involving free radicals. For example, his lab is working on a project aimed at figuring out how free radicals move in soaps. By placing free radicals in an oil drop and then watching to see how they react, researchers can understand better, for instance, how free radicals do damage to cell walls.
[Link: research.unc.edu...]

91 SkippyMoment  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:55:40pm

#83 mickthemick


It isn't just the sun. Flourescent lights in stores are also bad for beer, for example. Again, the reasons why this is so escape me, it has something to do with the way that spectrum of light effects fermented beverages. Hell, I'm no biologist....I'm just a suds hound.

Hum, I wonder if this is like the problem women have with nail polish and the sun or flourescent lights... it turns your nails yellow. Does the beer do the same for you guys? Or does it only effect snow?

92 ariana  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:56:21pm

or KOSCon, KOScam ?

just playing around with nicknames

93 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:56:33pm

Oh Hoh!

Steeler drive stopped short when the Bus drops the ball.

Whooooooooo-Hoooooooooooo!

94 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:56:41pm

#83 mickthemick

It isn't just the sun. Flourescent lights in stores are also bad for beer, for example.

Beer doesn't spend a long enough time in stores to be adversely affected. Sorry, I don't care what color the glass is. Although most of the beers I drink are in green bottles.

95 Darleen  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:56:50pm

#88 Mr Pol

BTW, how many gnomes does it take to screw in a light bulb?

;-)

96 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:57:54pm

#88 Mr Pol

Ya think the light gnomes can't screw in a light bulb?

Hah again! I booby trapped it!

97 Mr Pol  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:57:56pm

#95 Darleen

BTW, how many gnomes does it take to screw in a light bulb?

A plain screw, or an orgy?

98 Powderfinger  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:58:02pm

Jets v. Pats at Foxboro?

I like that game. :-)

99 mickthemick  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:58:35pm

#91 Skippy Moment

Does the beer do the same for you guys? Or does it only effect snow?

For the definitive answer to this question I recommend Down by the Yellow River by I.P. Freely. Helluva read! :P ;)

//third grade humor off

100 Darleen  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:58:36pm

#91 Skippy..

like the problem women have with nail polish and the sun or flourescent lights... it turns your nails yellow

Whaaaa.....? Where, girlfriend, are you buying your nailpolish?

101 manofaiki  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:58:49pm

I predict that the Daily Kos's days as a major fundraiser for any sort of important political campaign are over.

We knew they all lost.

Now we know Kos took the money and they all lost.

Did you give them a refund, Markos?

manofaiki

102 Mr Pol  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:59:08pm

#96 reaganite

Betcha it didn't blow up. Light gnomes are tricky.

103 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:59:32pm

Ok, beer is the issue now. My favorite beer cooler...

104 Iron Fist  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:59:41pm

#84 SkippyMoment,

He Who Must Not Be Named.

[Draws Pentagram in goat's blood]

The uber-Troll. Ranbutan.

[Lightening and thunder]

Ages ago he was a truly nasty piece of work. Be glad he's gone. He makes the nastiest thing you've seen around here look like sweetness and light.

105 Darleen  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 1:59:59pm

#97 Mr. Pol

A gnome orgy?

Oh my. I don't think I want to go there.

106 Mr Pol  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:00:37pm

#104 Iron Fist

Ah... you forgot the kosher salt rings. This thread is doomed.

107 Geepers  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:01:14pm

SkippyMoment (#84),

Do a search for ranbutan and see what a filthy jew-baiting troll looks like. Go way back he's been banned for a while.

108 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:01:17pm

#102 Mr Pol

Light gnomes are tricky.

That's why I bought my new shotgun!

109 Sue  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:01:23pm

#39 HS

i>Jeanne's colleagues committed a journalistic no-no: they took her background conversation with me and made up a quote from "a Dean spokeswoman".

So its like--FAKE, BUT TRUE?

If Rather's fake, but true is OK, then why not this?

110 mickthemick  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:01:26pm

#94 reaganite

Beer doesn't spend a long enough time in stores to be adversely affected.

That depends on where you shop, my friend! Refrigeration helps slow down spoilage, ofcourse, but unless you've got a hot product that sells itself it's best to bottle it in green or brown.

111 manofaiki  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:01:31pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this Markos guy the same asshole that confidently said, along with Michael Moore, that if only more Americans would get out and vote, since the majority of Americans are progressives, the Dems would win?

So more Americans voted in 2004;

And Kos' entire slate lost.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. This means something, but what?

manofaiki

112 SkippyMoment  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:01:31pm

#87 reaganite
It stands for He Who Shall Not Be Named!

Thanks for the translation, but I do sort of like ariana's suggestion. ;-)

#86 ariana

KOSINtheCOOKIeJar?

And who is it that should not be named? Anyone in particular?


Oh, and watch out for those gnomes... they turn up at the most inopportune times.

113 Mr Pol  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:01:52pm

#105 Darleen

A gnome orgy?

Oh my. I don't think I want to go there.

You're right. The smell is awful.

114 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:02:32pm
This thread is doomed.

Yup, it's the SNDT...

115 ariana  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:02:52pm

#104 Iron Fist Hi

I wasn't around then, should I be glad or was he fun to bounce off the walls?

116 Mr Pol  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:03:06pm

#108 reaganite

A shotgun? Isn't that an overkill? I use a big hammer.

117 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:03:37pm

#110 mickthemick
Some beers can't be saved no matter what color glass they use...

118 Mr Pol  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:03:44pm

#115 ariana

Glad. Ask mommydoc if you see her.

119 ariana  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:05:05pm

#112 Skippy

I like it too.. its catchy

Pat yourself on the back, you posted the comment on cookie jars

120 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:05:11pm

Ranbutan was a Buchananite.


Speaking of, watching "The Mclaughlin Group" last night, Buchanan qualified a comment about the Gaza border attack by saying "nothing justifies that kind of terror" but went on to justify it by claiming the attack was a retaliation for Israel killing teenage boys in a strawberry patch.


I kid you not.


Maybe somebody with a fast connection can look for the trnascript of the show for the exact quote.

121 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:05:48pm

#112 SkippyMoment
Check out Iron Fist's post, HWSNBN was a vile POS.

#116 Mr Pol

I use a big hammer.

You don't use a shotgun as a hammer? Weird...

122 Iron Fist  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:05:58pm

#115 ariana,

You should be glad. IIRC, he was the first troll Charles used the ban-stick on. A really nasty piece of work.

123 Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:06:14pm

#62 reaganite

You've been short changed.

Oh man, that's the best put-down all night!

124 SkippyMoment  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:06:39pm

#99 mickthemick

That was really bad! I'm going to have to turn on Frank Zappa now to get that outta my head.

#100 Darleen

Gave up on the stuff a long time ago, cause even the expensive crap you get at the professional beauty supply places did the same thing. I prefer naked nails, buffed to a high gloss. ;-)

Geepers & Iron Fist

Thank you for the scoop. Not sure I have the stomach for that though. I'll take your word for it.

125 mickthemick  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:06:42pm

#117 reaganite
Unfortunately true. I could name names. Anybody here ever drink "cool mint" Colt 45? I think they were trying to market something to folks who smoke menthols. I don't think the product exists anymore, but that's a good thing. Anybody who is curious should simply brush his/her teeth and then immediately drink a beer. That taste in your mouth is "cool mint" Colt 45. Yuck.

126 Mike C.  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:07:43pm

I was over at Daily Kos a few hours ago, and of course, this is THE topic. Heh.

# 1 Gringo

Would YOU want to closely examine the readership of Daily Kos ? Eww.

127 J.D.  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:07:55pm

#125 mickthemick
Thanks for that. Just the thought of it makes me want to puke.

128 Orson Buggy  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:08:04pm

#91 skippymoment

[Or does it only effect snow? ]

Frank Zappa could tell ya.

129 ariana  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:08:07pm

#118 Mr Pol


Wow, Hard to imagine a pundit the lizards couldn't take down

Maybe he went and found a presidential candidate to hire him to write a blog

:D

130 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:09:08pm

#123 Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

Oh man, that's the best put-down all night!

I just hate it when people with zero military experience try to claim we are mindless automatons doing our master's wishes.

The worst mistake a military defendant can do is choose a jury trial. If you are guilty, they are going to hammer you. Rightfully so.

131 Mr Pol  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:09:47pm

#121 reaganite

You don't use a shotgun as a hammer? Weird...

It's difficult to hit your own fingers with a shotgun...

132 Bubble Girl  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:10:25pm

Daily Kos has just been renamed........


THE LOST KOS

:)

133 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:10:43pm

#125 mickthemick
In our unit bar we have a banned list for beer fines. The rule is no shit beers. Milwaukee's Best is at the top...

134 Mr Pol  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:10:50pm

#129 ariana

Wow, Hard to imagine a pundit the lizards couldn't take down

I didn't say we couldn't. But most people needed a shower afterwards.

135 big L  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:11:08pm

8--luigi--about the liny--Uh which one is KOS?

136 denbike  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:11:09pm

Funny, I've been seeing more on Armstrong Williams in the Mainstream Media than I've seen on the Dan Rather caper. My first reaction to Armstrong Williams was, "Who?".

137 Sue  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:12:06pm

If you can bear it, go to dailykos, it's rather amusing. They have whipped themselves up into a frenzy about this. Clearly kos should have disclosed all of his clients, but they are making much, much more of this than anyone else. Naturally they are blamining it on the right wing MSM, right wing bloggers and cable TV and they are plotting how to attack those who have repeated these "lies", and are demanding retractions.

138 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:12:09pm

#131 Mr Pol

It's difficult to hit your own fingers with a shotgun...

Exactly! Unless you're into that kind of thing... :-Þ

139 SkippyMoment  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:12:49pm

#113 Mr Pol

But a troll orgy is worse. The only way to 'change the mood' and cool their jets is to place "Feelings" on the HiFi, and "Mr. Holland's Opus" on the telly.

Oh, and use industrial strength Fabreeze on all the surfaces of the room.


#114 reaganite

This thread is doomed.
Yup, it's the SNDT...

Cool! I hit it right on the first try!

Anyone want a cookie?

140 manofaiki  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:13:34pm

Who was that fat slob of a radio host on O'Reilly last night when they were talking about the military guy that was high on drugs when he shot the police officer?

I got so mad hearing this guy say several times the men coming back from Iraq were 'damaged goods' and the prick was trying to say the war made him do it, and then I actually threw my remote at the tv when the LLL looney said 'he went over there to be a cold- blooded killer' and implied he came back one.

Bill got pissed at this guy but good. He's some liberal talk show host but I forgot his name.

If the LLL thinks talking about our troops this way is going to turn public opinion against the war, these guys smoked too much dope in the 60's.

No wonder they can't win an election anymore!

manofaiki

141 mickthemick  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:13:50pm

#127 J.D.

Thanks for that. Just the thought of it makes me want to puke.

Sorry for the unpleasant image. I saw a lot of unusual alcohol when I worked at a liquor store in Ann Arbor. The "cool mint" Colt 45 was a sample a salesman left. Needless to say, our store never stocked it. Far and away the most disgusting alcohol we sold (IMO) was the buttered popcorn-flavored schnapps. Only for masochists and total morons.

142 Bubble Girl  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:13:57pm

SkippyM

What kind of cookie? Trollhouse? :)

143 Darleen  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:14:47pm

#124 Skippy

I don't wear much polish...always doing too many things like gardening to worry about chipping the stuff ... but I have from time to time, even went the acrylic bit for about a year...and never had yellow nails. Interesting.

#125 mick

Mint? ewwwwwwwwwww!

144 Mr Pol  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:15:05pm

#138 reaganite

After 30 years of hitting your own fingers, it gets to be a habit :-)

145 SkippyMoment  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:15:15pm

#126 Mike C. I was over at Daily Kos a few hours ago,

Mike c. you did enter the decontamination chamber before joining this tread, right? We'd hate to have to hose you down.

146 big L  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:15:40pm

20-J.D. Scroll down on your link and see BarBAra Boxer's ad and petition, from Feb '04....I wonder if she was a payee beyond the cost of the ad?

147 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:16:02pm

#144 Mr Pol

After 30 years of hitting your own fingers, it gets to be a habit :-)

Old habits die hard!

148 Bubble Girl  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:16:05pm

#141 MickdaMick

he buttered popcorn-flavored schnapps

No, no, nooooooo, ahhhhhhh, yuck...........gross
they should just drink schnapps and eat one of those pats of butter with it.........EUUUUUUUUUUU......

149 big L  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:16:08pm

thais is payer

150 hornet  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:17:03pm

All KOS candidates endorsed by Zuniga lost? That's life, no that's death. Maybe it is a curse. Whatever. Thankyou for your part Zuniga in getting Bush into the White House. Remember...honesty pays...big time in this case. As long as you learn from your mistakes, repent, ask forgiveness, and change for the next election, you'll be OK.

151 Darleen  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:17:09pm

#132 Bubblegirl

You gotta have it before you can lose it...

and things like integrity, character, morals" have never been any kind of coinage in the dKos realm.

152 Darleen  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:17:38pm

whoops...I forgot to close my italics tag

sorry

153 SkippyMoment  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:17:50pm

#142 Bubbles

Let me check the Troll Recipe book. ;-)

154 Bernadette  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:18:18pm

reaganite, Iron Fist: Hiya!

Looks like I'm late to this party and need to do some catching up.

155 FreakyBoy  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:18:46pm

KOS would have supported Dean without the payola. What a waste of money. Yeeeeearrrrrgh

Who won the game?

156 ariana  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:18:53pm

#122 Iron Fish

I'm glad

I love a good debate from a reasonable opponent who can back up their argument. But it's not much fun when all they do is rant, throw out mindless slogans or curse.

I think I may have to go post that nickname for KOS (KOSINtheCOOKIeJar) over at the DU
:D
of course that might result in namejacking

157 Darleen  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:19:12pm

#141 mick

Good lord.

The only time butter should get anywhere near a drink is hot buttered rum.

Mmmmm...

158 mickthemick  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:19:28pm

#133 reaganite
You guys won't drink Milwaukee's Beast?!?! And, yes, I do mean Beast, as we affectionately called it in my college days. I can't say I'd drink the Beast today (unless a host gave me one), but back in the day when we were young and foolish we'd drink the Beast, Goebbel's, Schaeffers, and Altes to name a few of the bad swills we used to buy. But, they were dirt cheap.

159 Mr Pol  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:19:30pm

Y'all gotta read this! Schadenfreude...

160 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:19:35pm

#154 Bernadette

Looks like I'm late to this party and need to do some catching up.

*passing a shot of tequila to Bernie!

161 EIDE_Interface  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:19:57pm

#37:

The American people accept the guilty verdict of this POS Graner and understand it was a lone action of a rogue guard at ONE prison. If you are here pimping for LLL, my advice:

FOAD

162 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:20:33pm

#156 ariana

#122 Iron Fish

Iron Fish? Run for your life!

163 Geepers  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:21:42pm

Yikes. Stumbled over this:

here are the top 100 comment posters

I wonder what the new totals would look like?

It would probably create a SoCal brown out if Charles ever ran that script again. :-Þ

164 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:21:43pm

#158 mickthemick

You guys won't drink Milwaukee's Beast?!?!

I was called a "beer snob" when I was 19 because I drank Bud! *spit*

165 Bernadette  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:21:54pm

#160 reaganite:

Thanks for the shot. After today's events, I really need it - and more.

166 ariana  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:22:25pm

Hi Bubble
I like it ! (LOStKOS )

167 ariana  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:23:32pm

#162 reagan

OH Shoot Now Ive done it

Hides under the desk

168 Bubble Girl  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:23:35pm

Darleen

I was thinking more of, The Daily Los Kos, where the PEST people or BDS could still go too, the places keep dwindling as time goes on....soon it will be just a couple of sad widdle blogs, down from the 3 million or so, before the election....

Just awful......

When you're Strange
Faces come out of the rain
when you're strange
no one remembers your campaign
when you're strange
Payola turns into chump change
when you're Stttrrrraaannnggggeee!

169 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:23:59pm

#163 Geepers
Just add 4139 to your total! And 3468 to mine, shit, make that 3469 with this comment.

170 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:24:41pm

#165 Bernadette

Thanks for the shot. After today's events, I really need it - and more.

I have 2 full bottles!

171 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:26:24pm

Genesee Cream Ale is a quality beverage I enjoyed when stationed at the Nuclear Power Training Unit, Ballston Spa, NY. Since we were paid on the 15th and 30th, and usually were broke by the 13th and 28th, we were always grateful for the 5 cents per bottle and 25 cents per case NY state beer deposit, which allowed us to turn in our collected empties for an emergency case (about $7 case in 1984, IIRC).


Darn, Brien just missed the field goal, but you still have to respect the fight of the J-E-T-S Jets!, Jets!, Jets!.


(Not normally one of my favorite teams, but with the Texans, Cowboys and NYG not in it, and being born in Flushing, NY, well).

172 mickthemick  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:26:25pm

#148 Bubble Girl & #157 Darleen
I think the buttered popcorn schnapps was a Dekuyper product, but go figure. I just don't understand why anybody would think that would make a good liquor flavor....or a good Jelly Belly flavor, for that matter.

173 Bernadette  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:26:28pm

#170 reaganite:

Thought you were saving them for your birthday bash. Thanks for sharing. What kind of tequila is it?

174 mean Gene  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:26:42pm

Ain't it the truth that Charles hasn't been supported by a political party.

Why, I wrote him a check months ago and my bank still says it hasn't been cashed!

175 Geepers  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:26:55pm

Darleen (#152),

whoops... I forgot to close my italics tag

No worries, we like your, ... um, italics.
:-)

176 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:27:29pm

Intercepted. Jets on Steeler's 36 yars line.

The gritty underdogs, the scrappers, the team to tough to quit, David against the Pittsburgh goliath, has life in it yet!

177 Powderfinger  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:27:55pm

Holy crap! Jets intercept, deep in Steeler territory with 1:47 left!

Chip shot?

178 Bubble Girl  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:27:57pm

Ariana

Oh, my, Gawd...... Iron Fish?

You, of course were subconsciously referring to the Legendary Iron Fish of Yore......... The Dreaded Iron Fish..... Made Moby Dick look like a minnow?

179 Bubble Girl  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:28:52pm

Ed,

Michael G, will be heartbroken if his Steelers lose......

180 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:29:13pm

#173 Bernadette

Thought you were saving them for your birthday bash. Thanks for sharing. What kind of tequila is it?

I can share with friends! They're Milagro Reposado and Milagro Silver. 100% blue agave. I can't wait to make them hurt me...

181 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:29:14pm

Sloe Gin Fizz my favorite when I'm in the mood for a girl drink.

182 justdanny  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:29:19pm

EIDE_Interface

With all due respect, speak for your self. I'm an American and I did'nt see or hear about any torture at Abu Gharib except that carried out by Saddam when he was in power. All I have seen that has been reported is prisoners were humiliated by some US prison guards and possibly some interrogaters. The Graner verdict pisses me off. Ten years for humiliating the enemy ? When killing them on the battlefield would have been acceptable (preferable) ? Thats bullshit. Graner got convited not by a just court, but one bent on satisfying the left worlds need for a scapegoat, for something that offended their finer sensibilities. Fuck the left. Free Graner !

183 Earth2moonbat  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:29:28pm

#145 SkippyMoment

Mike c. you did enter the decontamination chamber before joining this tread, right? We'd hate to have to hose you down.

It only takes a tablespoon of chlorine bleach. Chlorine - one of the marvels of technology. It even takes care of iron fish.

184 ariana  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:29:40pm

#163 Gee[ers

Darn
I guess I'm just not verbose enough for LGF's top 100

185 Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:29:55pm

#130 reaganite

What? You mean military guys aren't programmed in C++?

j/k

New names for the Daily KOS:

Daily KO$
Daily Kost
Daily KKKos (no relation to present scandal, just because....)

Anyone think of any others?

186 Powderfinger  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:29:56pm

Ed, hell yes!

Though that won't help them in Foxboro....

First down, Jets. Curtis "My Favorite" Martin.

187 mickthemick  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:30:04pm

#163 Geepers
You know, I didn't know if I'd be in there. But sure enough, I'm #100. Wow.

I'm off for a while, folks. Probably see you again right around the time of the Rams-Falcons kick-off!

188 jlfintx  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:30:18pm

Screw ethics. Yeah, did anyone ever think there was any of them that had ethics in the first place?

yawn

189 Darleen  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:31:24pm

#175 Geepers

Well...yeah...sometimes a girl just feels she needs to flaunt her italics now and then.

190 ariana  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:32:28pm

#178 Bubbles,
shh I'm trying to lay low - my bad typing skills
suggests hopefully to cover up the gaffe

err Iron MOBY? the terror of the seas?

191 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:32:46pm

#182 justdanny

Thats bullshit. Graner got convited not by a just court, but one bent on satisfying the left worlds need for a scapegoat,

Sorry, no. Military courts martials with a jury are always harsh on assholes. We don't like being made to look bad. Graner should have chosen a judge verdict. If I had sat on that jury I would have been one of the ones voting for guilty.

192 SkippyMoment  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:33:25pm

Ed, I'm with you on the sloe gin fizz... problem is they taste like candy, and before you know it, you're doing things you mama would never approve of, with boys.... oh never mind, you get the idea.

reaganite, got any slow gin at that bar of yours?

#178 Bubbles

That's a whale of a tale, that saga of the Legendary Iron Fish of Yore.........

193 Powderfinger  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:34:36pm

Whoa...drama.

FG w/ 4 seconds left.....

MISSED!

194 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:34:45pm

#190 ariana

err Iron MOBY?

Woman, stop digging! ;-Þ A moby is not a good thing here!

195 Bubble Girl  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:34:55pm

Good tequila, Mas tequila... esta muy bien.......
Jose Cuervo Reserva de la Familia

196 Powderfinger  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:35:12pm

Let's play some more football.

197 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:35:13pm

Brien sucks!

198 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:35:47pm

#192 SkippyMoment

reaganite, got any slow gin at that bar of yours?

Sorry, no, it's a military bar, no foo foo drinks here! ;-Þ

199 Village Idiot's Apprentice  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:35:56pm

Ed,
Haven't heard of Ginny Cream Ale in years,
When stationed in Charleston, we had a bartender get a couple of cases for us.
It just didn't taste the same as when I was 19 and drinking it by the pitcher at the local firehall before going active duty, oh so many years ago.

200 justdanny  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:36:29pm

#132 Bubble Girl

Daily Kos has just been renamed........THE LOST KOS

I kinda like the title The Daily Suk for him and his propaganda website.

His visitors are seriously the biggest sukers in all of blogdome. Looks like a serious case of Stockholm Syndrome over there. He sold them all for pennies and they are still over there defending him. He has a whacked out Manson like control over them. Seems very Freudian.

201 Geepers  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:37:08pm

reaganite (#169),

There's a four month gap in there.

Which means I would have to do some sort of math or something to figure it all out.

[Sips beer]

202 ariana  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:37:14pm

#185 Titus
See #72, 86, 92,
and Bubble girl #132

for some more ideas

203 SkippyMoment  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:37:27pm

#183 Earth2moonbat

That couldn't possibly take care of the Iron Fish... he's able to leap entire seas with a single swish of his mighty tale.. wait, should I say swish of his tale when referring to Iron Fish?... I better check the protocol guide... this could be a serious infraction of the Iron Fish rules... oh my gawd... [breaks out in a profuse sweat]

204 BlackOrchid  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:37:55pm

OT

Holy crap this is a good game of football (no rooting interest). I'd be going nuts if I were a Steelers fan tho. Are there any Jets fans? If there are I guess they're pretty unhappy.

205 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:38:14pm

If it goes to a third overtime, do we get a second half time show?

206 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:38:21pm

#201 Geepers

Which means I would have to do some sort of math or something to figure it all out.

SWAG it!

[Getting another beer]

207 ariana  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:39:14pm

#194 reagonite,

Oh no another lgf code term?

sigh
just can't walk down the hall without triping tonight

208 Bubble Girl  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:39:24pm
#181

Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C  1/15/2005 04:29PM PST

 Sloe Gin Fizz my favorite when I'm in the mood for a girl drink

Along with a chick flick :)

Got to go watch the game-
Back later ---:)

209 SkippyMoment  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:39:46pm

#198 reaganite


Sorry, no, it's a military bar, no foo foo drinks here! ;-Þ

Dang! Guess that means a girl can't get Sex on the Beach or a Screaming Orgasm either... I'll have to check out that bar over at El Cid's place... I believe he was serving Drowing Dead Girls to Senator Teddy last night.

210 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:39:58pm

Low volume of threads today. Do you guys think Charles is at The Regal Beagle drinking some cold beer with his friend Jack Tripper and Chrissy Snow?

211 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:40:30pm

And watching the game on a big screen TV?

212 Darleen  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:41:02pm

#191 Reaganite

I'm not that familiar with how military juries stack up ...but I am with civilian ones...

total crapshoot ... Guilty defendants are apt to gamble on a jury trial, hoping for that emotional driven sob sister to produce at least a hung jury ... innocent defendants are much better off with a judge.

213 SoCalJustice  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:41:08pm
I'd be going nuts if I were a Steelers fan tho.

My stomach has been doing flips since Tongue ran back that interception for a touchdown.

And win or lose, the Jets have proven they can handle Roethlisberger.

Ugh.

214 Geepers  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:41:32pm

Darleen (#189),

If you've got it, flaunt it. ;-)

215 justdanny  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:41:46pm

#191 reaganite

I understand and respect your position Reaganite. You have a perspective of this situation that I don't/can't.

Had I been in that prison and been told to do what Graner did, or gotten the notion from higher ups to do it, either way, I would have done the same thing. He tortured no one. He humiliated them. To me his only offense is that he got caught. His only offense is that he is'nt very bright.

216 Spiny Norman  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:42:10pm

#182 justdanny

With all due respect, speak for your self. I'm an American and I did'nt see or hear about any torture at Abu Gharib except that carried out by Saddam when he was in power. All I have seen that has been reported is prisoners were humiliated by some US prison guards and possibly some interrogaters. The Graner verdict pisses me off. Ten years for humiliating the enemy ?

Hear! Hear! I could not agree more. If you (or anyone else reading) gets into an argument with some shlub about the Abu Graib "torture", show them this:

Torture vs. Torture

Behavior beneath the dignity of American soldiers perhaps, but not torture in any sense of the word, and certainly not worth 10 years!

217 Darleen  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:42:34pm

#210 Ed

Today is gorgeous in So. Cal...clear, bright low 70's. I've been outside puttering most of the day.

Bet Charles returns with a cycle update. :-)

218 SkippyMoment  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:42:36pm

#205 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C


If it goes to a third overtime, do we get a second half time show?

Okay, but which one of you guys is going to have the wardrobe malfunction?

219 SoCalJustice  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:42:49pm

Damn - they have to review that spot!

220 piglet  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:43:26pm

so is it true that a

slue comfortable screw up against the wall

is the same drink as a

harvey wallbanger?


I seem to remember people getting a kick out of sending a good looking woman up to the bar to order the first one.

221 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:43:29pm

Man, speaking of low thread volume, right before I left for the office this morning, I posted a link to a Michelle Malkin story about Muslims maybe still trying to hijack planes with boxcutters. I figured by the time I got to work, there'd be a new thread and I'd have a hat tip.

But I'm not bitter.

222 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:43:30pm

#207 ariana

just can't walk down the hall without triping tonight

Ahh, we all do it!

223 Ann  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:43:48pm

OT:
Where is michaelg and Right Wing Conspirator?
re: Steelers
{holding head, covering eyes...}

224 ariana  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:44:03pm

psst justdanny, vote for my nickname- KOSINtheCOOKIeJar

err... votes for food, i mean oil

:D

225 Powderfinger  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:44:06pm

Yeah, they should review. But will it show conclusive evidence to reverse? The angle isn't helping...

What a great game.

226 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:44:17pm
227 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:45:33pm

#209 SkippyMoment

I believe he was serving Drowing Dead Girls to Senator Teddy last night.

I have been told Teddy the red nosed reindeer was permanently banned!

228 Spiny Norman  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:45:42pm

#198 reaganite

Sorry, no, it's a military bar, no foo foo drinks here! ;-Þ

Yaaay! 12-year old single malt with a splash of water. *clink*

229 Darleen  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:45:44pm

#216 Spiney Norman

You need to factor in "under color of authority". Civilian cops are going to get much harsher sentences than civilian perps for the same offense, especially if done while on duty.

It's part of the responsibility that goes with the position.

I'm not sure, though, what the goodtime credit ratio is in the military. Anyone?

230 Ann  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:46:49pm

#225 Powderfinger

What a great game.

... for a heart attack!

231 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:47:43pm

#212 Darleen

Guilty defendants are apt to gamble on a jury trial, hoping for that emotional driven sob sister to produce at least a hung jury ...

Military trials are different. The juries get pissed when someone makes us look bad.

innocent defendants are much better off with a judge.

In a military court the guilty have a better chance with a judge.

232 Powderfinger  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:48:44pm

Ann

That's the point, right? ;-)

233 justdanny  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:49:02pm

pssst ariana

I like mine better, I'm pretty sure I coined it. But, anything for a homey :), I'll vote for yours ;)

234 SoCalJustice  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:49:16pm

Finally, the Black and Gold get the ball.

Bad field position though...

235 SkippyMoment  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:49:37pm

#227 reaganite

he made a token appearance last evening after you left to finish watching BG.

He muttered something about MaryJo being alive when he left her to get help... we of course all believed him [NOT]

236 ariana  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:50:01pm

Hey I'm not hurt that NONE of my nicks were picked
{honest}

sniff at Titus

237 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:50:04pm

#215 justdanny

He tortured no one. He humiliated them.

He violated the UCMJ. We hold ourselves to a high standard. I personally would vote for the harshest punishment were I sitting on the punishment phase.

238 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:50:28pm

Reaganite, IIRC, as an enlisted man, he was entitled to ask that up to one third of the jury be enlisted, no?

BTW, how does the military choose juries?

239 Ann  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:52:53pm

#232 Powderfinger

That's the point, right? ;-)

Ok, I'll just concentrate on the beer :)
First Down!

240 jlfintx  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:53:03pm

C'mon Jets!

241 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:53:14pm

Of course, if I screwed up back in the day, I think I'd rather be judges by officers than by Chief Petty Officers.


I have noticed something about the CPO's back in the Navy. They were the oldest looking bunch of men in the late 30s and early 40s I have ever seen.


Something about ship board living ages men prematurely.

242 ariana  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:53:33pm

justdanny,

Thanks, but Titus's nick got picked

It was fun coming up with ideas. I love making up slogans

I was an advertising vp for several years and used to mess around with word images

243 jlfintx  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:53:58pm

Sorry Steeler fans, I am pulling for Herman Edwards.

244 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:54:44pm

Beer is effecting my typing finger coordination.

245 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:55:16pm

#238 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C

BTW, how does the military choose juries?

It depends on your rank, I think. I know one guy who had an all enlisted jury, he's doing 30 years.

I know that what Graner did was not torture but he made us (the military) look like assholes. I'd give him more than 10 years. His little girlfriend should get at least as many years as he did.

246 Powderfinger  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:55:46pm

Ann

Mmmmm....beer.

Reaganite

Absolutely right. Graner is an idiot, and a sadistic one at that. Not to mention being a moron for taking pictures.

Had I been on his jury, I'd have hung his ass.

247 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:56:13pm

Steelers almost to field goal range.


After Brien misses two field goals.


Jets need to draft a real kicker, maybe Dusty Mangum.


Deuce Staley has them in range.

248 SoCalJustice  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:56:14pm

jlfintx

I like Herm Edwards.

But the Steelers, and especially Hines Ward, "are playing to win the game."

They've made a lot of mistakes tonight, but this drive is looking good.

C'mon Deuce!

249 SkippyMoment  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:56:18pm

#244 Ed

finger? as in only one? type a straight line for us. Friends don't let friends drink and type. ;-)

250 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:57:00pm

#241 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C

I have noticed something about the CPO's back in the Navy. They were the oldest looking bunch of men in the late 30s and early 40s I have ever seen.

I used to work for a CMSGT, he looked 70. He retired at 45. A year later he looked 30.

It's a hard life sometimes.

251 justdanny  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:57:34pm

Spiny Norman

And ya know what else? I don't think any of the groups who have been chopping off heads in Iraq signed the Geneva Convention. I don't think they recognize any rules of war or treaties. They are wedded to death. They are married to murder and suicide. From Saddam loyalists to british insurgents, they are all terrorists, they are all one enemy with one goal, to kill and brutalize Americans and Shias. Fuck them. Feed them fish heads. Dress them in bras and panties and march them through town or stack them naked from here to the moon for all I care. I want living US soldiers coming home when its there time to come home, and I want dead and if need be humiliated enemy all over the ME. Free Graner !

252 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:57:58pm

#246 Powderfinger

Had I been on his jury, I'd have hung his ass.

Cheers.

253 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 2:59:08pm

#251 justdanny

Free Graner !

In ten years.

254 SkippyMoment  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:00:24pm

Not being, or having never been in the military I may not have a valid position here, but IMO, Garner and England and the rest should get the maximum penalty allowed. At a time when our men and women were risking so much this crap only made the job harder for them. My 'adopted' brother (the solidier I adopted a year an a half ago) was powerfully effected by this story. He was military police, and while he and 99% of those watching and serving in the detention centers behaved honorably, they ALL came under scrutiny. They all got a black eye.

255 SoCalJustice  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:00:41pm

C'mon Jeff.

Deep breaths. Don't let the time out ice you. It's just a chip shot....

256 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:01:06pm

#254 SkippyMoment

They all got a black eye.

Exactly.

257 SoCalJustice  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:02:33pm

Two words:

Sa Weeet!

Phew - that was way too close for comfort.

The Jets should be proud though.

Man. Scary.

258 Ann  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:02:38pm

Cheers SoCalJustice (homey-:) and Powderfinger!

259 Mike C.  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:03:18pm

# 57 Ed Moran

and perhaps making the first $60,000 of income earned by any degreed petroleum engineer working in the E&P business tax free.

Hey ! What about the geologists and geophysicists ?

260 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:04:06pm

Didn't Graner have a reputation as being abusive as a civilian prison guard?

I have a little more sympathy for his younger girlfriend who also took part in the abuse.

BTW, in boot camp the concept of a lawful order and the Geneva Convention and all that crap was explained to us. An enlisted man is obligated to question any order he believes is unlawful, but I doubt Graner was actually ordered to do all the really nasty things he did.


No mistake though, I have no problem with things like sleep deprivation and other things to make non-uniformed (ie, illegal) combatants uncomfortable.

Darn, Jets lose.


But at least next Sunday's game is outside, so there is a chance of football in the snow or rain (snow, if anything, probably).

Football in domes is just wrong.

Speaking of, I haven't seen a Falcon's game all year.

261 Frank IBC  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:04:30pm

Piglet -

A Screwdriver is vodka and orange juice.

A Harvey Wallbanger is a Screwdriver plus Galliano (vanilla-anise flavored liquer).

A Slow Gentle Screw Against The Wall is a Harvey Wallbanger with Sloe Gin (berry-flavored gin) instead of vodka, and possibly other liquers.

A Slow Screw is the above but without the Galliano.

262 justdanny  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:05:35pm

#237 reaganite

He violated the UCMJ.

I understand that. And I understand your view on this thing. I have a different view. A view from someone who has never served, never worn the uniform of any branch of the service. And those like myself who share my view, and carry it out, I salute them. I only hope they won't and don't get caught. And I hope they are smarter than Graner was.

263 SoCalJustice  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:05:58pm

Ann

Cheers - back at you!

The Steelers were so lucky - they practically gave it away, and should be thanking their lucky stars that Brien and the Jets couldn't convert - the second of those kicks was pretty makeable.

Phew!

I don't think they can afford to rely on luck against the Colts or Patriots - gotta tighten up the play a bit.

264 Iron Fist  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:06:03pm

#154 Bernadette,

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Bernadette}}}}}}}}}}}}}} }}}}}

Hey, Dolly!

265 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:06:06pm

#260 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C

An enlisted man is obligated to question any order he believes is unlawful,

Anyone who claims otherwise is a fool. I honestly can't tell you how many times I've questioned unlawful orders and won every time.

266 Frank IBC  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:06:44pm

The media has blown Abu Ghraib totally utterly out of proportion, but idiots like Graner gave them the opportunity to do so. I agree with Reaganite - he should get the max, and then some.

267 Village Idiot's Apprentice  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:06:48pm

#241 Ed
Hey,
Watch the Old looking CPO jokes
I'm 47 but my wife tells me I look younger.
But, what does she know. She was crazy enough to say yes when I proposed to her.

But you are right. As a young E-2, those guys did look like the very salt the ocean was made from.
The 1st Classes were King.
And the only one higher than the king was god.
And the Chiefs were god.

268 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:07:44pm

#262 justdanny

I only hope they won't and don't get caught.

There is a time and place for everything. For assholes like Graner I hope they get caught every single time and spend years in prison.

269 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:08:40pm

259- I don't know about the geophysicists.


However, when somebody takes the time to actually color in all the reservoirs and draws in all the faults on one of the post stack migrated or whatever seismic diagrams, especially when the target sand is colored in yellow, than I get pretty good as spotting targets myself.

270 Ann  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:09:57pm

#263 SoCalJustice

gotta tighten up the play a bit.

Yep, and I guess you just heard Cower say that after you posted! Phew is right!

{I guess we need to stop talking football on this thread now... sorry if it annoyed anyone}

271 SkippyMoment  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:10:27pm

#256 reaganite

He had always wanted to be a policeman, but this experience has soured him. Now he's not sure what he wants to be. These idiots tossed a rock in the pond, but the ripples keep flowing out. Many lives where negatively impacted by their conduct. They need to be made an example lest someone else think they can justify the same conduct.


#260 Ed

I don't have any sympathy for her. Her commanding officer tried many times to restrict and restrain her conduct, and she just kept disobeying orders to participate in the debauchery with her 'boyfriend.' She's no innocent. She knew what she was doing, and didn't care what the cost was. If she did, she would have shown some restraint.

#261 Frank IBC

Is it getting hot in here? I think I need a drink. ;-)

272 SkippyMoment  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:12:24pm

#264 Iron Fist

[pout] I thought you said you forgave me? :-(

273 justdanny  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:12:55pm

#253 reaganite

In ten years.

I know. And you won't see me leading any demonstrations to have him freed. He signed on the dotted line. He is owned. I think he knew if he got caught he would get what he got. Had he not been caught nobody would have gotten a black eye. Nobody would be dishonored by his ignorance. Were I the judge I would have released him with a dishonorable discharge for one reason, to benefit the strong character and honor of all the guys like yourself who are much smarter than him. No other reason.

274 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:12:55pm

#271 SkippyMoment

He had always wanted to be a policeman, but this experience has soured him.

He sounds like he has the right values. You should encourage him to be a cop. We need people like that.

275 Frank IBC  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:13:59pm

My friend, who is slightly to the right of Meir Kahane, was livid over Abu Ghraib, because it put America's hard-earned reputation for humane treatment of POWs at risk. He said, "I really thought that was one thing that made America stand out in the world, and now we're at risk of losing that".

276 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:14:22pm

#273 justdanny

Were I the judge I would have released him with a dishonorable discharge for one reason,

Were I the judge, he would have gotten more than 10 years.

277 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:14:44pm

267 VIA


One of the reasons I got out as an E-5 (besides the fact I had always planned on going to college) was I didn't want to wind up looking like those guys.

278 Frank IBC  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:15:41pm

Skippy Moment -

Not here...it's a bit drafty here, my toes are cold...

I need something to warm me up. :)

279 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:15:53pm

#275 Frank IBC

I really thought that was one thing that made America stand out in the world, and now we're at risk of losing that

Exactly why I would have nailed that prick to the wall.

280 SkippyMoment  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:16:48pm

#274 reaganite

You should encourage him to be a cop. We need people like that.

I'm continuing to do my part. I can only suggest, encourage, and be supportive as he works this out for himself. Iraq was an intense experiece for just a young man, but he's stronger for it. I know he'll make the right choice (or I'll drive up there and kick is butt ;-> )

281 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:18:22pm

Did Iron Fish get here?

282 SkippyMoment  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:18:31pm

#278 Frank IBC

Not here...it's a bit drafty here, my toes are cold...
I need something to warm me up. :)

Hum, do you have a cat?

283 Frank IBC  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:18:47pm

I would have sentenced him to a nude pyramid with Michael Moore and Andrew Sullivan on top of him.

And maybe put his lower half in The Stocks, and have 10000 women come by and mock his genitalia.

284 justdanny  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:18:53pm

#268 reaganite

There is a time and place for everything. For assholes like Graner I hope they get caught every single time and spend years in prison.

I know, I know. Thats why I hope there are lots of guys like me scooting just ahead of guys like you warning guys like him that you're coming. ;)

285 ariana  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:19:21pm

#263 justdanny

KO$ posted more on that washington post story which identified the plane company flying US prisoners, and the location of the planes taking off.

Then the asshat went over and took down the plane registration numbers etc and then urged his readers to look for the planes track them and report their destinations

[Link: pronin2.dailykos.com...]

Isn't he breaking some law?

286 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:19:27pm

#280 SkippyMoment
We're an all volunteer force. We do our best to make sure our people know what they are getting into. Some people go one route (humilate our forces) and some go the other (question what is right or wrong). Your friend is on the right path.

287 ariana  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:20:45pm

# Ed M
I know I'm a lowely newbie but

SHHHADDDDUPPPP


PLEASE?

288 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:22:29pm

#284 justdanny
I've thrown 4 men out of the service. I won't tolerate assholes who make us look like assholes.

I've made mistakes in my career but I've never made the entire United States look like a POS. That's what this clown did.

10 years isn't long enough.

289 Powderfinger  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:24:05pm
I think he knew if he got caught he would get what he got. Had he not been caught nobody would have gotten a black eye.

justdanny, my beef really begins with the pictures.

Realistically, shit happens. War sucks. Rules get broken..even when we're not at war.

But to pose for frigging pictures...that then get out...and cause the biggest frigging hate-Americafest in recent history....

Sorry, Graner is a fucking idiot. And he really looked like he was enjoying himself...for the camera. *spit*

290 SkippyMoment  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:24:08pm

#283 Frank IBC

I would have sentenced him to a nude pyramid with Michael Moore and Andrew Sullivan on top of him.

Now that's what I call torture! eeewwwwww.

#287 ariana

you go girl! we need newbies with spunk!

291 Iron Fist  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:25:00pm

#272 SkippyMoment

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{SkippyMoment}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} }}

I'm on the phone with my mom.

:-)

292 SkippyMoment  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:26:23pm

#291 Iron Fist

Whew!

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Iron Fist}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Tell you mom hi from all of us! 'Hi mom!'

293 ariana  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:26:43pm

#289 Powderfinger,

Thats the deciding factor..

Taking pictures "for fun" conflicts with the idea
that they were just following orders

294 justdanny  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:27:49pm

#285 ariana

Not only is that wrong and illegal, its one more reason why my heart and mind lays with the dark side of our powers as a government, as well as our light sides. I would say what I think Kos deserves, but this is a public forum. Likewise I would be far more descriptive in my discussion with Reaganite on the Graner Verdict issue, if this were not a public forum. Oh wait, no I would'nt.

Thank gawd for the dark side of light. Without it, the dark side of dark would be winning.

295 Geepers  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:28:27pm

ariana (#285),

The futile nonsense of the loser left.

296 DANEgerus  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:28:47pm

So a slime trailing invertebrate like "Screw'Em Kos" is... a slime?

Whoa... that is news.

297 SkippyMoment  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:29:02pm

#286 reaganite

He referred to them as 'damn reservist pukes' and that was the general feeling amounst the regulars he served with.

He's a fine young man. I'm really blessed to have him as a 'little brother'.

I know he'll figure out what he wants to do with the rest of his life. He's just having adjustment issues. Too much time on his hands, too many things to choose from, timing is wrong for the academy. He's got a good head on his shoulders, and a good heart in the rest of him.

298 Powderfinger  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:30:20pm

reaganite

I've made mistakes in my career but I've never made the entire United States look like a POS. That's what this clown did.

Yeah. There's a lot of rules, and they get broken. If you get caught, you pay the price.

But this clown was in the center ring of the circus that has everyone from the American left to the islamofascist psychopaths pointing to it as evidence that America is a terrorist nation.

He's lucky I didn't sentence him. I might just send him back to Iraq.

299 ariana  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:30:22pm

#294 justdanny

such a very Teoist viewpoint

300 dcbatlle  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:30:31pm

Libs accuse their opponents of dishonesty---Kos proves that is pure projection.

And they accuse us of "hate" and "scare tactics" too. It's all projection folks.

301 Mike C.  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:31:29pm

# 269 Ed Moran

Well, hop a plane and come look at this dog's breakfast I've got in front of me right now. It's not helping that the reservoir(s) are in volcanic and volcano-clastic rocks. I agree, it's easy to spot the target after somebody colors it up, but coloring up the correct target - ah, that's the tricky part !

302 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:31:33pm

#294 justdanny
My problem isn't "torture" or "humiliation" it's the fact that this asshole did it for fun. Were he actually trying to get some useful information I would be inclined to give him some slack. There was a LtC who staged a mock execution early on in the war, him I would cut some slack, not this clown.

303 justdanny  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:33:10pm

#289 Powderfinger

I agree and I said that right up front. The dude is an idiot. And I agree he is guilty of doing something idiotic. But what he did to the prisoners was not torture. He was convicted of torturing prisoners. He did not torture anyone. I agree taking pictures was idiotic. I agree his actions dishonored the military. But had he not taken the pictures, not been caught, there would be no offense to convict him of. I'd say his momma is more guilty than he is.

304 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:34:31pm

#297 SkippyMoment

He referred to them as 'damn reservist pukes' and that was the general feeling amounst the regulars he served with.

Not to slander the entire reserves (I know a vast number of honorable ones) but many in the reserves are L³ who came in for the benefits. Not to serve the nation, but to serve themselves.

#298 Powderfinger

He's lucky I didn't sentence him. I might just send him back to Iraq.

As bait...

305 ariana  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:34:35pm

#300 dc

Absolutely,

Same type of projection happened in their accusations over the Ohio vote while they were actually doing the real thing in Washington State.

clear the halls, DEAD MAN walking .. to the polls

306 justdanny  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:38:28pm

#299 ariana

(taoist) Yes, I was once called zendog, before I abandoned all that kinda crap.


#302 reaganite

it's the fact that this asshole did it for fun

See, we part ways there. I don't think he did it for fun, I think he screwed up and had fun doing it. The reason he did it I believe had nothing to do with fun.

307 Powderfinger  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:40:49pm

justdanny

But had he not taken the pictures, not been caught, there would be no offense to convict him of.

Exactly right.

But there are pictures. And he was a willing participant in taking them.

He's the guy with a prisoner in a headlock, with a great big smile on his face, and his fist cocked back as if he's about to break some teeth.

With friends like Graner, who needs propaganda? He's either evil, incredibly stupid, or both.

308 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:41:13pm

#306 justdanny

The reason he did it I believe had nothing to do with fun.

I've never dealt with prisoner interrogations, but I have dealt with POWs. If not for fun, then what? I know my military, he certainly wasn't ordered to do it.

309 justdanny  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:41:42pm

#304 reaganite

As bait...

:(

310 Nukevet  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:41:42pm

#57

Sorry Ed - wrong kind of vet (veterinarian instead of veteran). Everything I know about radioactivity is on the medical diagnostics/therapeutic side. Still, I'm all for letting some of our OUTSTANDING Navy nuclear engineers decrease our dependence onf foreign oil.......

311 Al di Grandpa  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:43:24pm

Ed Moran...

Sorry about the Jets...but Pitts coach Warnsedt (sic) very gracious class comment about Jets after the game...You weren't a big Jets fan anyway....

I have no opinion on Graner....media made this a story. How about those troops that committed murder in SC after returning from Afghanistan? That story gained no traction...Graner a Bush
bash...nothing more. The brig is full of soldiers that f**ked up..
Just like our prison system...too bad in our culture bad apples spoil a lot of good folks. IMHO

312 SkippyMoment  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:44:28pm

#306 justdandy

I can't agree with you position on he just screwed up and had fun doing it.

You have to have a mindset that allows you to think that your enjoyment in humiliating those under your charge is withing acceptable bounds to begin with. Somewhere along the lines the little filter in his head that keeps the fantasy of "wouldn't that be a hoot" separate from "yeah, these a$$holes deserve whatever we want to do with them, to hell with the rules." He had no scrupples about what he was doing, or the thought that his actions might be a huge rock thrown in a pond might have occured to him and prevented him from acting on his juvenille and sadistic fantasy.

313 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:45:12pm

#309 justdanny
Yeah, that was harsh. But honsetly I've spent over half my life as active duty military. I've done things and seen things I don't wish on anyone. I consider my service honorable. That asshole took a dump on my life. Fuck him.

314 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:45:14pm

287 Ariana

Excuse me, what the hell is your problem?

315 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:46:52pm

#314 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C
Ed, she was joking...

316 justdanny  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:49:14pm

#308 reaganite

I don't know anything about any of this that you don't know. And I'll bet you're right that he was'nt ordered to do it. At this point I run into unsupportable assumptions so I guess I just have to say we disagree. In particular, I very respectfully disagree with you.

#307 Powderfinger

I agree. But not guilty of torture. Guilty of being stupid. And if the sentence for that is ten years in prison, so long human race.

317 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:50:11pm

I guess I didn't get the joke.

318 Frank IBC  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:52:15pm

JustDanny -

Strictly speaking, it's not physical torture. But it sure as hell was abuse and it probably was emotional torture.

And as I said earlier, he gave fodder for those who want to bring down the US Military and sabotage our fight in Iraq.

319 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:53:31pm

#316 justdanny

I very respectfully disagree with you.

We can leave it at that I guess.

#317 Ed Moran abu GOMEX aob 26.5C

I guess I didn't get the joke.

I'd been picking on her for some time after she mis-typed Iron Fist as Iron Fish. I really don't think she was trying to be a bitch with you.

320 Frank IBC  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:54:21pm

JustDanny -

Guilty of being stupid

And his stupidity blackened the reputation of the US Military.

And if you don't show that stupid acts will have consequences, you will get more stupidity.

321 justdanny  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 3:59:16pm

#312 SkippyMoment

He screwed up by having fun while he was doing what he thought he should be doing. I did'nt mean to say that he was having fun and then got caught and that was the gist of it.

I believe he was doing what he thought he was supposed to do. I believe he was given reason to believe he should do what he did, and then because he is an idiot, he had fun doing it. I agree with you totally

He had no scrupples about what he was doing, or the thought that his actions might be a huge rock thrown in a pond might have occured to him and prevented him from acting on his juvenille and sadistic fantasy.

Whatever lead him to do what he did, he was the wrong person to be doing it.

#313 reaganite

That asshole took a dump on my life.

I could not disagree more. What he did when filtered through the blaring deranged bullhorn of idiotmedia may have caused some existing hair brains to feel that way. But I can assure you Reaganite, no civilian in their right mind could possibly associate what he did as a smear on any upstanding memebr of any branch of the service.

322 reaganite  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 4:02:43pm

#321 justdanny

no civilian in their right mind could possibly associate what he did as a smear on any upstanding memebr of any branch of the service.

We lost Vietnam for the same kind of shit.

323 Frank IBC  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 4:05:19pm

JustDanny -

no civilian in their right mind could possibly associate what he did as a smear on any upstanding memebr of any branch of the service.

It does not change your opinion of the US Military.

It does not change my opinion of the US Military.

But there are millions of Americans out there who do not necessarily have the same unwavering faith that we do, and the actions of a single idiot is enough to entire an entire organization.

324 justdanny  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 4:05:46pm

#318 Frank IBC

I'm really not bright enough to get into defining torture, other than to say, I saw no torture, as far as my understanding of the word. What I saw was humiliation. If you want to call that abuse, fine by me, though I would'nt.

And as I said earlier, he gave fodder for those who want to bring down the US Military and sabotage our fight in Iraq.

I will never be for our Mil. making decisions based on what might motivate some loon to believe what he already believes. This is not a perfect planet. The US mil command is not all seeing all knowing. If the US mil has to constrain itself to only doing things that are unoffensive in the eyes of the enemy, they may as well issue cyanide pills instead of guns.

325 Frank IBC  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 4:07:53pm

In my #323, please replace "enough to entire an entire organization" with:

"enough to taint an entire organization".

326 SkippyMoment  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 4:10:52pm

#321 justdanny 1

Yes we agree, he screwed up. I think we agree on most of your post, except I doubt he thought it would be okay, I suspect he didn't care if it was. The fact that they took personal photos tells me this guy was trophy hunting. The pics provide the evidence to show his friends what a 'stud' he is.

I've known too many people like him, and they scare the sh*t out of me because you never know what they'll do. They are bullies, imbecilles, and sick puppies.

I understand why reaganite believes he took a dump all over him. My 'little brother' felt the same way. Men how take their service seriously, who are asked to do stuff you and I as civilians don't understand or probably couldn't do, have to know that they have the respect and support of the country behind them. This idiot tarnished their reputations by assoication. The MSM, and Islamic press, hell the presses of the world that are just looking for a stick to beat the US with, were handed a gift by this story.

I don't think we can fully understand the feelings of those in the military, but we should try, and accept what they say about feeling sh*t upon. the MSM/world press wants this to be another Vietnam. We should not give these guys a pass.

327 psginfinity  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 4:12:20pm

#40 Craig Abu Al-Boo-Boo

I'll bet Wonkette gets paid "by the piece"...

328 Frank IBC  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 4:12:33pm

We lost Vietnam for the same kind of shit.

Absolutely. A case in point would be My Lai. Did it help the reputation of the military even one bit, that it was an isolated incident, and that it was SOLDIERS who put a stop to the killing and arrested the killed. The reputation of the miltary is still besmirched to this day from that.

329 justdanny  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 4:14:59pm

#322 reaganite

I have never thought the US lost the action in Viet Nam. So I can't really answer to that.

#323 Frank IBC

Youre right. And I refuse to allow the politics of idiots to make decisions for me. I am not here to influence the enemy with honey and win friends with good behaviour. When my President said, "You are either with us or you are against us." He was'nt just speaking to me, he was speaking for me, he was speaking my words. Fuck a bunch of bipartisan bullshit. This thing is black and white. If the left can win back the drivers seat, however they can, good on them, but untill they do, I don't want to see my leader looking sideways or back to see if their gaining on him. I want his eyes on the prize, cause thats where mine have stayed.

330 Ann  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 4:19:34pm

I was young, granted, but the first time that I heard anything disparaging about our military was the coverage that I saw of John Kerry's testimony in 1971.
It's gone on since.

331 justdanny  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 4:27:01pm

#326 SkippyMoment

I'm surrounded by currently active and retired members of the Mil in my family, and among my lifelong friends. Only one of them has expressed deep disapproval of what happened on 'Graners watch', and thought what happened was torture. Because I am a lot more interested in politics and current events, I came out to them with my take on what happened there and found nearly perfect agreement that A. the dude is an idiot, B. that what he did was not torture and C. that there are things about this story that we don't know, and he was probably doing what he thought he was supposed to do. That is, humiliate the hell out of a bunch enemy combatants to freak them completely out and keep them awake.

That he took pictures of his on the spot creative humiliation freakout party proves what an idiot he is. That he had fun doing it proves he has some serious character flaws. Had I been in his shoes, given what he probably thought he was supposed to do, I may have done the exact things he did, but not taken pictures and not enjoyed it. And right now none of you would know anything about it.

332 justdanny  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 4:30:46pm

#330 Ann

See Kerry gets to frolic off into weak kneed spineless sissy oblivion marrying rich witches and getting elected to Senate and running for President, after what he did, and Graner gets 10 years in prison for stacking dudes naked ?

Zero justice on both counts.

Free Graner !

333 Bubble Girl  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 4:33:57pm

Who-hoo

How bout those Steelers, and is Brein, so dead man walking...

334 Ann  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 4:37:16pm

#331 justdanny
My take on this discussion tonight has been hard for me to reconcile. None of us here hold any sympathy for our enemy, and it pains me that one of our soldiers has to face such a punishment for doing what all of us would like to do to the enemy.
But we are not soldiers. Graner was. With that comes an expectation of professionalism. Our military are the best professionals in the world, and he let his lack of disgression feed the anti-American grist mill. His punishment is just, I now feel.

335 SkippyMoment  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 4:38:42pm

#331 justdandy

A. the dude is an idiot Agreed.
B. that what he did was not torture and Agreed
C. that there are things about this story that we don't know, and he was probably doing what he thought he was supposed to do. That is, humiliate the hell out of a bunch enemy combatants to freak them completely out and keep them awake. Agreed

But, because your family members and friends didn't feel like their service was sh*t upon, doesn't mean that reaganite, my 'little brother', and countless others who are not here to speak for themselves don't, or shouldn't feel that way.

We agree on many points, but we seem to be missing this one.

Now, reaganite, how bout a round of sissy drinks on my tab... I believe Frank IBC had some interesting suggestions above.

;-)

336 ariana  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 4:45:54pm

#314 Ed

Sorry was away from keyboard..

My apologies,
People were teasing me about the typo on Iron's name and

I thought you had followed the thread and meant to elbow me over my typing mistake.

I meant no harm , just joking around

(My typing accuracy level is most unimpressive. I'd be a dead duck without spell check.)

337 justdanny  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 4:51:16pm

#335 SkippyMoment

My friend Eric, served in the Navy, did a stint in communications at Kennebunkport for Bush 1, read me the riot act when I told him my take. And I gave him nothing but full respect for his view. I did not argue with him. I did not try to change his view.

I've tried to qualify my opinion by stating up front that I am not in the service. And further still by acknowledging reaganites much superior knowledge of service and what that means. I've disagreed with Reaganite on a few things and not once has that ever decreasaed my immense respect for him.

#334 Ann

I agree with everything you said. I am just not one to consider giving the anti Americans anwhere on the planet something to yell about as an offense. I do not care about the feelings of my enemy. I am American. If someone is anti American, they are my enemy.

We will not win this thing turning our ears and considerations over to the enemy and their cheerleaders.

338 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 4:53:34pm

Graner's "following orders" defense, pre-emptively discredited at Nuremberg, should nevertheless resonate well with the MSM/hard-left fifth column, since they still have hope of turning Abu Ghraib into a poltical witch-hunt.
At the very least, treating poor Chuck deSade and Madame Lynndie as innocent victims or pawns will allow the treason lobby to go on generalizing and exploiting the episode for the benefit of their terrorist comrades.

339 SkippyMoment  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 5:00:35pm

337 justdanny 1/15/2005 06:51PM PST
Never meant to imply you were showing disrespect, but wasn't sure if we fully clarified that point.

Reaganite and all the others here, and out there are deserving of our respect. Garner or whatever the hell is name is, is deserving of the punishment they measure out. And I think we pretty much agree there too, though maybe not to the same degree.'

Now, how bout that sissy drink on my tab? Barkeep... a round for everyone on this thread.

340 Catttt  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 5:08:21pm

Graner was convicted of assault; conspiracy; maltreatment of detainees; committing indecent acts; and dereliction of duty. He was found guilty on all counts, except that one assault count that was downgraded to battery. Not just naked pictures.

The adultery charge was dropped.

He knocked a detainee out by hitting his head with his fist. He beat a detainee with an asp. He e-mailed home about the beating - made a joke out of it. He threatened a subordinate.

The truly pathetic thing is - it was for laughs. I'm not buying the after-the-fact excuse that they were under pressure to get information. They - were - having - sport.

This is NOT the norm. The military showed this by its actions in convicting this man.

341 Ann  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 5:08:54pm

#337 justdanny

We will not win this thing turning our ears and considerations over to the enemy and their cheerleaders.

You are absolutely right!
But the whole world, save some sane folks talking about this in a pub or around the dinner table are our only friends. The reality is that we are the single remaining dominant power because we are Americans. For that we are hated. Israel is hated for her success and happiness, too in a failed and miserable region. For that very reason we must stay above reproach.
I don't like it either, justdanny, but this ruling is sound, imho.

342 hazzyday  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 5:09:42pm

Reading KOS he just seems to be all spleen and mean. The few intellignet posters on his site provide all the real zip to it. Without them the dailykos would be folly after folly and soon die a rusty death. He'll throw all his supporters to the wolves if he feels like it. I see no values in him.

343 Catttt  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 5:10:34pm

SkippyMoment, don't mind if I do.

Make mine a Diet Mountain Dew, please. :)

344 SkippyMoment  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 5:13:31pm

#343 Catttt

Drink up! Plenty more where that came from... cept our bartender has disappeared.

345 Max Darkside  Sat, Jan 15, 2005 10:32:28pm

Aw, come on, admit it. You took funds from BushHitler ChimpNazi that were skimmed from Enron destined otherwise for Halliburton and used that money to hire self-proclaimed typography "experts" to bring down Dan Rather, further purging liberals from the vast Conservative media.

/DU Member

346 justdanny  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 4:23:59am

The truly pathetic thing is - it was for laughs. I'm not buying the after-the-fact excuse that they were under pressure to get information. They - were - having - sport.

Catttt

I tend to believe that they were not trying to get information. I tend to agree that they were having laughs and sport while they were doing something they thought they should be doing. I disagree that the reason they were doing what they were doing was simply for laughs. They had laughs doing it, yes.

Ten years for being an idiot with issues and making the US look bad.

So whats Britney Spears sentence ?

347 TotallySirius  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:13:51am

The LLLs at DU are cannabilizing Kos and their best friends-the MSM.

[Link: www.democraticunderground.com...]

Hope they have plenty of ketchup.

348 J.D.  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 1:55:21pm

#141 mickthemick
I went to bed just after I read your post about CMC45, and I just now came back and saw this.

The "cool mint" Colt 45 was a sample a salesman left. Needless to say, our store never stocked it. Far and away the most disgusting alcohol we sold (IMO) was the buttered popcorn-flavored schnapps. Only for masochists and total morons.


Which leaves me feeling a little iffy again...
I must be coming down with something...

#146 big L
That's just it the trouble, isn't it? Now, we can't help wondering.


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