LGF

more options

  

Advertisement

Islamic Murder of Coptic Christians in NJ?

Sun, Jan 16, 2005 at 8:18:30 am PST

‘Islamic Hate’ Eyed in Slayings. (Thanks to all who emailed about this.)

January 16, 2005 — The father of a murdered New Jersey family was threatened for making anti-Muslim remarks online — and the gruesome quadruple slaying may have been the hateful retaliation, sources told The Post yesterday.

Hossam Armanious, 47, who along with his wife and two daughters was found stabbed to death in his Jersey City home early Friday, would regularly debate religion in a Middle Eastern chat room, one source said.

Armanious, an Egyptian Christian, was well known for expressing his Coptic beliefs and engaging in fiery back-and-forth with Muslims on the Web site paltalk.com.

He “had the reputation for being one of the most outspoken Egyptian Christians,” said the source, who had close ties to the family.

The source, who had knowledge of the investigation, refused to specify the anti-Muslim statement. But he said cops told him they were looking into the exchanges as a possible motive.

The married father of two had recently been threatened by Muslim members of the Web site, said a fellow Copt and store clerk who uses the chat room.

“You’d better stop this bull—— or we are going to track you down like a chicken and kill you,” was the threat, said the clerk, who was online at the time and saw the exchange.

But Armanious refused to back down, according to two sources who use the Web site. ...

Armanious’ fervor apparently rubbed off on his daughter, Sylvia — who would have turned 16 yesterday. “She was very religious and very opinionated,” said Jessica Cimino, 15, a fellow sophomore at Dickenson HS.

A family member who viewed photos of the bloodbath said Sylvia seemed to have taken the most savage punishment. “When we saw the pictures, you could tell that they were hurt really, really bad in the face; especially Sylvia,” said Milad Garas, the high-school sophomore’s great-uncle.

The heartless killer not only slit Sylvia’s throat, but also sliced a huge gash in her chest and stabbed her in the wrist, where she had a tattoo of a Coptic cross.

Also found murdered were the wife, Amal Garas, and the parents’ other daughter, Monica.

Advertisement

261 comments

  • Comments are open and unmoderated, and do not necessarily reflect the views of Little Green Footballs.
  • Obscene, abusive, silly, or annoying remarks may be deleted, but the fact that particular comments remain on the site in no way constitutes an endorsement of their views by Little Green Footballs.
  • Posts that contain phone numbers, street addresses, email addresses or other personal information will also be deleted, as will posts that consist only of a variation on the word, "First!"
  • Comments that advocate violence will be cause for immediate banning with no appeal.
  • Disagreement and debate are welcome, but insults and abuse are not, and may cause your account to be blocked.
  • REMEMBER: posting comments at LGF is a privilege, not a right. Abuse that privilege, and your account will be blocked.

Hide comments | Jump to bottom

1 Jewels (AKA Julian)  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:19:47am

*sigh*

2 TotallySirius  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:20:18am

RoP

3 syb  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:21:01am

I have no words

4 Village Idiot's Apprentice  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:21:21am

Still trying to find this in the MSM.
CNN-nothing
MSNBC-same
Etc, etc

5 Fast Eddie  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:21:42am

Simply reporting this murder would be considered a "hate crime" in England.

6 Bayou_King  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:22:14am

Here we go.... the VOP (Virus of Peace) has entered the bloodstream.

Now the Dutch get to watch our immune system for a change...... if we have any left!

7 Mr. T  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:22:15am

Any chance that this will be handled as a "hate crime"? Two chances: slim and none.

Sigh.

C'est tous.

8 bigel[deleted]  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:22:53am
9 Mr. T  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:24:40am

#8 bigel

That's not a bet. That's a certainty!

10 TotallySirius  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:25:29am

#4 VIA

I read that story earlier on pMSNBC but now the page has been changed and the story is gone.

11 Hari Seldon  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:25:31am

beagel ya beat me to it......its just sad how much we would balem the victim....i hope they catch the killers. Id like to watch them fry

12 Earl  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:25:39am

And the PC-constrained, dhimmified Jersey City police will conduct the investigation as merely a 'botched home-invasion that went terribly wrong' (channeling the MSM reportage)

Perhaps the local Coptic Christian community may leverage this outrage into an all-out examination of islamist activity in Jersey and, more generally, the United States?

As a Christian, I can understand the Armanious family as martyrs. They died for their Christian beliefs. RIP.

13 JammieWearingFool  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:25:55am

For what it's worth, it's on p. 1 of the Star Ledger today.

14 American Infidel[deleted]  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:25:56am
15 Beagle  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:27:00am
Osama Hassan, director of the Islamic Center of Jersey City, described the relationship between Copts and Muslims as cooperative if not friendly.

"I think there might be people that can get into physical fights, but not to the point of murder," Hassan said.


If you can't trust Osama, who can you trust?

16 syb  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:27:14am

#4

I googled his name and came up with these with the following:

Links via Google

SYB

17 octopus  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:28:15am

Should be easy enough to track them down, if they were posting in the same forum, as the story says. If the FBI can find hackers anywhere in the world, this one should be a snap. A matter of political will. I say, these murdering scum will be caught and punished.

18 Bayou_King  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:28:48am

so i wonder how they tracked him down?

guess we shouldn't fill in any personal profile info on blogs if we intend to stand up for controversial positions, eh?

19 JollyFatMan  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:29:27am

The cut to the girl's wrist says it all. Since the girl was the most mutilated, I suspect she was the real target. RoP my hairy butt.

JFM

20 Village Idiot's Apprentice  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:30:05am

I did find this article that goes just a little deeper. But most MSM articles make no mention of the possible connection,
I see the FBI is involved, but they say this is normal at this point .
A little more info

21 Beagle  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:30:35am

#18 bayou_king

guess we shouldn't fill in any personal profile info on blogs if we intend to stand up for controversial positions, eh?


I wonder how far through a jihadi three inch magnum triple ought buck will travel? What about a one and a quarter ounce slug?

22 brett  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:34:29am

Let's see ... barbaric stabbing ... check ... evidence of religious motivation ... check ... Jersey City ... check ...

Sounds like the work of Muslims to me!

23 Bayou_King  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:34:44am

#21 Beagle 

that's true.... guess the jihadis might have a little more trouble with their Ginsu act in the red states

*loads 12-gauge with rock salt and pork cracklins*

24 Earl  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:34:46am

#20 VDI

Perhaps I was wrong in my post above:

The attack has hit equally hard in the tight-knit Coptic community. Yesterday, the Coptic Business Association of Jersey City offered a $500,000 reward for information leading to an arrest.

"Christian blood is not cheap," said the group's president, Adel Agib. "We want to know who killed them. We want to catch them."

And, presumably, Mr. Adel's final unreported comments were: "We want to send the mohammedan perpetrators to their 72 virgins in Paradise."

25 AtlasShrugged  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:35:03am

Read this article carefully. THIS IS NEW JERSEY! This is America, these are our neighbors. This is the US. Savagely barbarically murdered for speaking out. Wake up and smell the future...................
they will kill anyone that speaks out
how long before they come for you
and me
and my kids
it is very serious

26 octopus  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:35:38am

[Link: www.paltalk.com...]

This is the site that sponsored the chatroom in question, according to Fox News. I'm sure the FBI can get all the pertinent records, just as they did in the recently-thwarted plot to blow up the deranged kid's high school.

27 Earl  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:37:22am

#24

"VDI"? WTF? Sorry, VIA, that's VIA

PIMF

28 American Infidel[deleted]  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:38:12am
29 Bayou_King  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:38:37am

if this crap starts up over here, we need to keep a
red state/blue state scorecard on where the 'slims get away with it and where they get ventilated . . .

. . .. maybe THIS would convince the San Francisco gun grabbers to STFU

30 pookleblinky  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:39:47am

Atlas

Worse- how long before it is impossible to legally defend yourself against them when they attack? Look at Britain, where rape victims say they're afraid to fight back for fear of being arrested.

31 sgt tom  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:40:18am

sigh

just lovely.
so the religion of goat f#(^3rs has decided to tip its hand in america... must have reached close enough in numbers in new jersey to switch tactics from whining to intimidation.

meanwhile, the left-wing nutjobs continue to try to disable the second amendment.

tired of the madness, looks like we're going to have to return to the good ol' days... recall if you will that it wasn't that long ago that the "law" in this country was made at the end of a gun. tombstone, az; dodge city, ks; fort worth, tx.

time to elect a marshall, folks.

32 trigger girlie  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:43:28am

If you replace Christian with Muslim, and vice versa, this story would be on every front page of every scumbag newspaper: NY Crimes, Chicago Tricrap, etc. This is just sickening. It is time for the Christians and the Jews to get together and kick some Islamic ass (wishful thinking perhaps)

33 American Infidel[deleted]  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:45:05am
34 Bayou_King  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:45:22am

# 31 sgt tom

call me crazy, but wouldn't it be very effective to turn the tables?

right thinking american bloggers need to spend 15 minutes a day scrolling websites like this, making note of who is making jihadi noises, and attempt to find out WHO they are and WHERE they live.

let's start keeping an eye on those who enjoy our freedoms and preach jihad

Turnabout is fair play

35 Trippin  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:45:22am

If there is any truth to this at all - that Muslims killed these people over religion - then I want these fucking assholes caught and executed on live television.

The Muslim community had better start becoming vocal about shit like this. All I see is Muslims trying to silence opposing voices, or trying to sell us a version of islam that requires you to be braindead to believe it.

It's a little difficult to think of Islam as a peaceful religion, when Muslims are blowing up schoolbuses, cutting people's heads of, and slitting the throats of Christian families. Islam is a disgusting death cult and until I see those elusive "moderate" Muslims speak out against these fucking bastards, that is what I will continue to believe.

36 trigger girlie  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:46:02am

It seems like it should be fairly easy to track them down: just look up chat history, and look up the names of the people participating in that particular chat, then find their ISPs, etc.

37 Geepers  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:46:06am

When has criticism of islam ever not met with threats and violence?

Osama admits it in another thinly veiled threat:

Osama Hassan, director of the Islamic Center of Jersey City, ...

"I think there might be people that can get into physical fights, but not to the point of murder," Hassan said.

And in true islogic fashion couples that with the completely contradictory statement:

[he] described the relationship between Copts and Muslims as cooperative if not friendly.

Got that? We'll beat you up, but in a "friendly" way.

Fuck you Osama Hassan you're a liar and you're playing us for fools.

38 Elcid  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:46:55am

repeat...to those lurking and have the same thoughts read this

I will, in a cold and calculated way...cut the heart out of one of you and feed it, literally, to the rest....and after the court case freeing me, I will display the rest of your hearts in Mason jars.

There are NO Geneva Convention rules, no law of civility, no law of God or man, should any of you attempt with me or mine, what you did do to the family in New Jersey, that will prevent me from doing to you, what is promised above.

39 peggie  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:47:22am

25 atlas remember that little ditty when they came to get the jews, i didn't care because i wasn't a jew when they came to get the gypsies, i didn't care because i wasn't a gypsy...and so on and so forth...and when they came to ge me, there was no one left to care. this is our VAN GOGH hour. makes the standard trolls just an annoyance. people can't go crazy, but we'd be foolish to let this get covered for pc purposes.

40 AtlasShrugged  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:47:28am

Pookle Its everything.................its a descent that picks up speed with every politically correct action. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Enough giving the thumbsuckers enough rope to hang themselves as they are hanging us in the process.
Not evolution ---- Revolution
The GrassRoots must get off their fucking couches, put down the Big Macs and take a stand....................

41 sgt tom  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:48:33am
"I can say whatever I want," the friend said Armanious responded. "I live in America"

apparently not when you criticize muslanimals.

it's ok to make fun of jesus, or taunt santa claus or the easter bunny.... but say anything derogatory about murders and child-molesters, and they come out and cut your throat... while the authorities sit on their hands and tell us to be tolerant. tolerance is a two-way street.... you ask for it, you have to give it in return.

otherwise, your ass is out of here.

42 Bayou_King  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:49:44am

what is sad for the concept of world peace in general,

is that these *chromosomally impaired quasis* are purposely trying to be so bloody that they incite us into a Holy War....

because they THINK THEY CAN WIN

time to disabuse them, as a religion, of their fetid fantasy

43 AtlasShrugged  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:50:16am

Pookle........pass the strong coffee and roll up your sleeves

44 Mr Pol  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:51:28am

Obviously the ROPers in NJ think they have the numbers to impose sha'ria. I hope they're wrong.

45 sgt tom  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:51:49am

34 bk

good idea.
but unless you have those skills, i suggest you just do the neighborhood watch thing. i already have 2 deportations to my credit. homeland security is happy to hear from you if you really have something. just keep it simple, factual, and to the point, without adding any emotional commentary or opinion.

46 AtlasShrugged  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:51:56am

#39 Peggie
I know that tale well, heard it from a Rabbi ages ago and have been repeating it ever since 9/11

47 bigel[deleted]  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:53:09am
48 Lizard by the Bay  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:54:38am

Will this be prosecuted as a hate crime? Of course not! If the victim is white and/or Christian and the perpetrator is not, then there is no hate crime. I know this because the ACLU told me so!

So, in this case, since both the victim and the perpetrator are non-white, but the victim is Christian while the killer is a member of one of the "protected" religions (i.e. anything but Judaism or Christianity), this will never be brought to court as a hate crime.

The politically correct have spoken.

49 Mr Pol  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:56:19am

#47 bigel

They have the numbers in Paterson, Jersey City and Newark.

The 4th, 5th and 6th holiest sites of the ROP, huh?

50 [Engineer]  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:56:33am

Sigh, well it has started here - it was only a matter of time. What does it take to wake people up? A bus or mall bombing?

51 Anonymous Al  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:57:28am

Sombody teach Muslims what peace means!

Quick!

52 RedWhiteAndJew  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:58:15am

Hey, RoP nazi scum who monitor this blog...

1) Your 'prophet' was an anal-obsessed child rapist.
2) Your 'god' is the sloppy seconds from a pantheon of collective delusions of urine-drinking camel sodimizers.
3) The person telling you these things is a JEW.
4) The person telling you these things is a well-armed JEW.
5) The person telling you these things is a well-armed JEW who will not hesitate to see to it you get your raisins a lot earlier than you expect, if you come calling to my home with intent to do harm.
6) Those aren't raisins.

(The above is not intended to defame or impune any self-identified Moslems who do not have hate in their hearts and do not seek to destroy modern Western civilization, commit genocide against my people, and generally be a pain in the ***. You're free to believe as you wish, but I believe that when you pray, the G-d hearing your prayers isn't the one you think.)

53 bigel[deleted]  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:58:32am
54 lazytart  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:58:59am

I am speechless.

WTF, this is HERE... this is America. And our media and government are hiding it, IMO.

I'm with Atlas Shrugged and Eclid.

(Some of you might recall the hate mail I received to my home after writing letters to the editor of our Memphis newspaper... my friend the FBI agent- you know what he said? He said, "if I had a child, I'd stop writing the letters.".

That was what he said. Is that the attitude we are going to face now? Is this the attitude of our government... forgo YOUR rights.. out of FEAR? Because we are too IMPOTENT to find these people or even attempt to PRETEND to protect you from this? SHUT UP AND DO NOT TALK ABOUT IT?)

And our MEDIA.. lying.. beating America down over and over and on and on, all the while CAIR and these murderous zealots taking over our country, instituing SHARIA step by step in the name of fucking TOLERANCE... pretending to be citizens of this country while stabbing us in the back the entire time.. planning, scheming, hating, tolerating NOTHING... cutting OUR HEART OUT slowly?

I'm gonna be sick.

Apologies; rant off./

55 Bayou_King  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:59:53am

#36 trigger girlie  1/16/2005 08:46AM PST
 
>It seems like it should be fairly easy to track them down: just look up chat history, and look up the names of the people participating in that particular chat, then find their ISPs, etc.

56 Geepers  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:59:57am

From Paltalk's "Privacy" statement:

Profile
We store information that we collect through cookies, log files, clear gifs, to create a “profile” of your preferences. We tie your personally identifiable information, and your purchasing history, to information in the profile, in order to provide tailored promotions and marketing offers and to improve the content of the site for you. We do not share your profile with other third parties without your consent.

PalTalk is the sole owner of the information collected on PalTalk.com. PalTalk collects personally identifiable information from our users at several different points on our Web site or through our downloaded software.

Sounds like they're intent on mining for personal information that they can sell or utilize.

I wonder just exactly who at Paltalk gave out Mr. Armanious "profile" and if they are legally liable for his and his families murders?

I wonder what the people paying for Paltalk think of being used?

57 Geepers  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:00:55am

And isn't a bit ironic that Paltalk's motto is: "Communications beyond words".

I guess that includes having your family gruesomely murdered.

58 justdanny  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:01:21am

I. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Islams response: We'll worship our warrior child molestor all we want, bitch. Try to stop us.
II. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.
Islams response: Yeah, right, we'll walk around our big spooky rock and fester our hate like automaton zombies swearing our allegiance to hate and murder. Try to stop us, or even criticize us, bitch.
III. Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain.
Islams response: Allah akbar, is what we scream as we behead the non believers. What ya gonna do about it, bitch.
IV. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Islams response: We make holes in non believers seven days a week. The sabbath aint no different than any other days for making things holy, bitch.
V. Honour thy father and thy mother.
Islams response: My father built this splodeydope vest, my mother is a dog to be owned and abused at will. I honor nothing but jihad, bitch.
VI. Thou shalt not kill.
Islams response: Fuck you. Killing is what I am, it is the core and cover of my being. Hahaha, bitch.
VII. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Islams response: Stacking up wives so deep I don't need to commit adultery. If I want a bitch I take her. 8 to 80, bow legged crawling or crippled, bitches is dogs, I own them, get your won, bitch.
VIII. Thou shalt not steal.
Islams response: I take what I want when I go raping and pillaging. Try to stop me, bitch.
IX. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Islams response: I don't need to. When I can just as easily murder the son of a bitch in the town sqaure to the cheers of thousands. Get over your self, bitch.
X. Thou shalt not covet any thing that is thy neighbour's.
Islams response: No need to covet what is mine. Fuckin Allah said that shit belongs to me. I'll take it when I want and kill you just for sport, bitch.

59 Bayou_King  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:02:48am

oops, somehow was cut off..

#36 trigger girlie

if you DID manage to find an ISP for a poster, how would you then find out where they lived? wouldn't the internet company keep this private?

please elaborate - duck season is slow here and i think hunting fanatic muslims might be more rewarding and better for america

60 fiveofnine  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:03:58am

Time to give all Muslims a lie dectector test to determine their loyalty and morality (ours not theirs), if they fail, deport the SOB'S. Enough is enough.

Since I work in the Middle East (Dearborn, Mi) I better be careful.

61 Alouette  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:05:03am

Has CAIR come out with a statement?

If Muslims were shown doing this to a Christian family on a TV show, CAIR would be all over it like stink on shit.

62 Partisan  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:05:15am

Plan for this week.

Buy weapons, apply for a carry permit.

63 Lizard by the Bay  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:05:22am

#50 Engineer

What does it take to wake people up? A bus or mall bombing?

No, the usual suspects will just wring their hands and ask what we did to deserve this. Then there will be the general call to understand our enemies grievences, and then...

Face it. We were all gung ho after 9/11, but after a few years and a few hundred troop deaths, we just don't have the stomach for the war to save Western Civilization. We are not the generation of our fathers and grandfathers.

I give the [bigoted word]s less than 30 years before they have Sharia courts here in the US.

64 eeevil conservative  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:09:45am

I can see the defense attorneys now- blaming the victims for "HATE-SPEECH" and "INTOLERENCE!" "The poor Muslims feel they have to defend themselves against all the hate speech. Muslims are "discriminated" against, their religion is ridiculed, blah blah blah...."

65 justdanny  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:11:46am

Lizard by the Bay

A few months ago I would not have agreed with what you wrote. But now seeing so many bright people go dim with their insistance that accepting and raising up 'differently relevent' scum is the way to go. And becoming PC is beneficial because it makes us and our enemy feel better about our selfs, I think you may be right.

Might come a time before long when we have to suspend the citizenship of all moonbats and just go at our enemy, inside and out, with all we have, in a way that will leave the shit stains of the world bitching for centuries.

66 texanista  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:13:26am

12. Why don't we all just get out own armbands with that family's name on them? If there's gonna be a fight let's make sure they all know what they're up against.

67 Bayou_King  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:13:33am

folks, let's try to do something here, more than just talking.

can anyone here NAME A FEW WEBSITES where these fanatics preach their hate? i'm sure the perpetrators have fled this "paltalk" site by now.

if i can find a couple muslims hate sites, i plan to start monitoring a few minutes each day, identifying the screen names of the worst offenders/enemies of America, and begin keeping records - to turn over to the FBI

anyone care to help on this project?

68 AtlasShrugged  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:13:59am

54 Lazytart

He said, "if I had a child, I'd stop writing the letters.".


Let me tell you Lazy.........i TEACH my little ones to write letters!
When my daughter was penalized 3 points on her current events homework for not "naming the suicide bomber" I told her to go back to that shithead and tell her "HE HAS NO NAME"

I then set down all of this History Professor's left leaning indoctrination tactics in a long letter to the Executive Board at thr school whereby she threatened me with legal action.
I said "BRING IT ON"

and while she continues to teach she is no longer Dean of the Middle School.

Silence=Eventual Slavery and Death
Silence of the lambs, eh?

69 pookleblinky  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:14:43am

#54

You are frightened by the spread of evil by default. "All it takes for evil to win is for good men to do nothing."

As Atlas says, Fight the Good Fight. Do something.

70 American Infidel[deleted]  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:15:00am
71 ferrethouse  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:15:21am

And so it begins. We aren't safe in our own country now. Democrats prostitute themselves for votes and sell out our country in the process.

72 theparson  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:15:43am

I don't believe the FBI, or any other law enforcement agency will disclose any information that this is a hate crime. First, it isn't PC and second, our government continues to portray this as a religion of peace. In spite of all evidence to the contrary, our government continues to portray this as a religion of peace. How can we ever win the war on terror when we refuse to identify the enemy?

73 Trippin  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:16:23am

#56 - If the father was active in the Christian community, he was probably well known. He may even have disclosed his name in his conversations and, since it's a fairly unique name, all the murderous pig had to do was look it up in the phone book.

74 Excaliber  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:16:31am

Looks like we need an American Dhimmi Watch

75 pookleblinky  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:17:23am

#67 Bayou King

You just invented Jihadwatch. It tracks down Jihadi sites, shuts them down, and provides the FBI information.

76 Ann  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:18:08am

#54 lazytart

my friend the FBI agent- you know what he said? He said, "if I had a child, I'd stop writing the letters.".

I see no need for you to apologize for ranting against that! We cannot give in to intimidation, which is the satanic cult's favorite method of conversion.

77 peggie  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:18:27am

good morning america. this has been going on for how long. politicans accepting donations from characters who publicly advocate the destruction of israel - certainly does make for strange bedfellows. religious leaders preaching the destuction of the u.s. while enjoying every benefit this country has to offer. the american lawyer [female] who's on trial for passing messages for the blind sheik to cell members - who thinks she's on trial for her leftist beliefs. after 9-11, everyone should have walked away from any support for terror no matter how minimal.

78 Mr Pol  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:18:41am

#75 pookleblinky

You just invented Jihadwatch. It tracks down Jihadi sites, shuts them down, and provides the FBI information.

Now if only the FBI did something with that information...

79 Lady Redhawk  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:20:26am

#72 theparson

." How can we ever win the war on terror when we refuse to identify the enemy?"

Good question! I agree that we must do something. Bayou King, have you contacted the FBI to see if they would be interested in any internet info we come up with?

Perhaps the ACLU will take up the case of this poor family who were horribly murdered just because they are Christians (yeah, right). This is a hate crime if I ever saw one.

80 levi from queens  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:21:08am

NYC LGFers must make plans to defend themselves. This is a clear threat.

This law, I think, should be passed and then operate on Mr. Osama Hassan's mosque.

A terrorist-related institution is any institution whether religious or secular, drawing its membership largely from its immediate geographic surroundings, one or more of whose members commit an act of terrorism as defined..... All members or attendees of such an organization who are not natural citizens are subject to immediate and nondiscretionary deportation unless that member or attendee reported the threat of such terrorist act to a law enforcement official prior to commission of the act..
81 Beagle  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:21:34am

#64 eeevil conservative

I can see the defense attorneys now- blaming the victims for "HATE-SPEECH" and "INTOLERENCE!" "The poor Muslims feel they have to defend themselves against all the hate speech. Muslims are "discriminated" against, their religion is ridiculed, blah blah blah...."

That might work in New Jersey. Put some LLL's on the jury, or one Muslim. All it takes is one to hang the jury.

If the government does not take some draconian measures fairly soon we may find out how many Muslim-styled butcherings it takes to create vigilante justice. If the government cannot protect citizens from Muslims, the citizens will do it. This is America. And I'm not as pessimistic as some. But I can see the reasons for pessimism. Fox pedaling CAIR propaganda during 24 is just one example.

82 AtlasShrugged  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:21:43am

It is easier to get involved than every before............
you have a computer
camera
honestreporting.com
vipac
jihadwatch
info@rnc.org, Cable@msnbc.com, wsj.ltrs@wsj.com, letters@msnbc.com, letters@nypost.com, letters@nytimes.com, Hannity@foxnews.com, Oreilly@foxnews.com, editors@jpost.co.il, letters@latimes.com, Comments@foxnews.com, contactus@thejcpa.org, president@whitehouse.gov, voicers@edit.nydailynews.com, vice.president@whitehouse.gov, newswatch@foxnews.com (Fox News Watch), Reliable@CNN.com (Reliable Sources), onthemedia@wnyc.org (NPR), kurtzh@washpost.com (Wash. Post media critic Howard Kurtz), cjr@columbia.edu, special@foxnews.com (Brit Hume), beltway@foxnews.com (Fred Barnes), feedback@foxnews.com (Fox News Live), newswatch@foxnews.com, feedback@pmo.gov.il

The President's email: president@whitehouse.gov
The Vice President's email: vice.president@whitehouse.gov
White House phone: 202-456-1111 Fax: 202-456-2461
Senate and House switchboard: 202-224-3121

83 flick  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:22:23am

So the islamonazis have finally brought the jihad to the US, in a very effective way.

Effective because the sob's know that murdering us one family at a time is going to attract law enforcement. And that there won't be any preemptive law enforcement action - it's pick up the pieces afterwards.

In the United States, we'll never deport illegals based on their country of origin or religion. They know that the LLLs won't let us.

We've got a house in the country, enough property to feed us, surrounded by lots of big mean dogs, armed, & security lights. Have I left anything out?

84 American Infidel[deleted]  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:22:46am
85 hermeneutics  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:22:47am

I just wrote Drudge and asked him to include it on his site. Perhaps we all should write/email our local papers? Just a thought.

K.

86 Bayou_King  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:22:50am

#70 American Infidel 

ah, makes sense.... with that many muslims in NJ, of course there's at least one mole working at the ISP

this is serious shit.... this is a huge threat...

Even at risk of sounding like racist nut-jobs, we need to talk to our ISP officials, point out this gruesome murder, and make sure that they understand that if they hire fanatic Muslims, said Muslims might value following their "religion," higher than obeying company privacy policies regarding customers' personal info. (ya think?)

so, lizardoids, do you know how many fanatic Muslims work for YOUR ISP? a project for us all................

87 eeevil conservative  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:23:26am

#72 theparson

I am torn between supporting those Muslims who do speak up and say that this is NOT the ISLAMIC way, and shouting from the rooftops that this IS a religion of violence. For years I wnated to hear them step up and denounce the violence as Christians did about the abortion clinic bombings, and now when they do- we just roll eyes and say it is a religion of violence. {sigh}

88 AtlasShrugged  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:24:01am

#80 Levi
is there an LGF chapter in New York?

can we start one? I would be more than happy to try to put this together with you.......should we try to hook with the liberal hawks?

89 Lady Redhawk  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:24:28am

#80 levi from queens

Excellent piece of work.

90 hermeneutics  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:24:32am

Wow ... AtlasShrugged is way ahead of me!

Okay, Lizardoids -- choose TWO on Altas' list and write. NOW.

91 AtlasShrugged  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:25:37am

"81 Beagle

yes yes
first Citizen Journalist hence Citizen Soldier

92 theparson  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:25:42am
If the government does not take some draconian measures fairly soon we may find out how many Muslim-styled butcherings it takes to create vigilante justice.

This, I fear, will never happen. Our elected officials simply do not have the stomach for it. Too many muslims vote. Too many LLL vote. I am uncharacteristically pessimistic about the governments will to fight the WOT here on our own shores.

93 Weasel Hunter  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:27:10am

Barbaric slaying of a family for speaking out a different opinion? How can this stop?

I know! Through dialogue with Muslims. If they don't tolerate what you say, we need to dialogue with them. And when we are finished doing that, we should urge Sharon to resume negotiations with Abase.

/revulsion

94 eeevil conservative  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:28:41am

92 theparson

this is exactly what I posted about htis morning. I am really at a place of not knowing what to do anymore. I will never give up on the idea that they need to be physically stopped by ANY means possible, but some of the rest just leves me confused.

95 theparson  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:29:35am

I wonder if Michael Moore is going to knock on the door of this grieving family and tell them, "there is no terrorist threat"?

96 theparson  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:30:36am
but some of the rest just leves me confused.

Such as...?

97 gymnast  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:31:46am

"Militant Islam" comes to America. When they catch the SOBs that did this they will find a much larger rats nest that had supporting roles in the murders.

98 eeevil conservative  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:32:03am

# 96 theparson

see #87

99 AtlasShrugged  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:32:04am

92 the parson

This, I fear, will never happen. Our elected officials simply do not have the stomach for it


WE HAVE THE STOMACH FOR IT. Thus we must elect the officials that do have the stomach for it.............and we must increase the visiblitlty of Alternative media so that the MSM becomes the alternate media and a huge diverse media landscape emerges in its place

This is a Chess game..............PLAY!

100 eeevil conservative  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:35:42am

#99 Atlas Shrugged

LOL! You go GIRL! You are so right on.
Just not sure weather to bash Islam as a violent religion- or support Muslims that speak out against the violence and disown those Muslims that do use terror and violence. HTis is the one area where I am not sure which is the best "CHESS" move.

101 Alouette  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:36:39am

#60 fiveofnine

Time to give all Muslims a lie dectector test

Pathological liars do not register on a polygraph. Lying for them is like breathing for the rest of us.

102 pookleblinky  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:39:21am

#92 Parson, 99 Atlas

Elected officials are merely people given permission by a larger number of people to act within strictly defined limits to protect that larger group of people. They possess no power but what the people gives them. Any action beyond protecting the people, should be an impeachable offense. Conversely, any negative actions they undertake with the people's consent, indicates the structure of law is not adequately limiting their actions within the principle of equal freedom.

In a constitutional republic, even if everyone voted to make rape legal, the government could not do so. This is what happens in a democracy, where the will of the majority is not limited by equal freedom.

103 American Infidel[deleted]  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:40:11am
104 theparson  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:40:12am

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil

The number of Muslims who have stood up and denounced terror and murder are infinitismal. This cannot be construed as a religion of peace when the Qu'ran continually demands blood lust. It is what it is.

105 hermeneutics  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:41:21am

I just wrote Kurtz. Please, Lizardoids, write to the media NOW.

K.

106 AtlasShrugged  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:41:58am

100 eeeeeeeeeevil!


I want PROOF of what you stated here

support Muslims that speak out against the violence

are we talking about an actual group of a couple or errant freaks.?.............is it more than say 2 people?

(hey baby missed you.....hoped you are tending your legacy well -the babies i mean!)

107 Elcid  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:42:37am

People we are inextricably tied to each other, to rid this Country and the World from the evil that has gained "inness" with the efforts of those who consider 'political correctness' the 'bible', in dealing with those that are the most foul of humankind.

Despite OUR differences, our spats, our words of hurt and anger, our internicine warfare, our 'silliness', our humor, WE must not forget, this IS a fight for the future of humanity.

I, just as you, want my children, grandchildren, family and future generations containing my genes to live in the Century in which they belong....NOT the 11th Century, NOT with beards, NOT with Burka's, NOT with genital mutilation of crazed fanatics .

108 Dar ul Harbarian  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:42:39am

This is a horrible crime.

I wonder what the people at paltalk.com have been saying about it?

109 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:44:26am
110 Bayou_King  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:44:49am

if the internet is going to be a weapon against the jihadis,
we simply MUST keep them out of ISP offices and away from personal information.

of coure, they could always try to hack for the info, but how much easier to have a paid ISP Muslim employee just looking up the info while a supervisor isn't watching?

i am seriously serious - - have we even thought about this threat?

111 eeevil conservative  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:45:37am

#104 theparson

I understand exactly what you are saying, but then that leaves us shucking the Muslims that DO speak out against the violence, and right now- THEY are the ONLY ones that can reach Mulsims. They sure as heck are not going to listen to us. ALL MUSLIMS will be left with either turning their back on their religion TOTALLY- or joining the terrorists. I don't think we would win that battle. Not saying you are wrong- just hinking in CHESS terms.

On the ohter hand if we don't speak up about the vio,ence and truth of what Islam teaches- we are just aiding in more lies. I can't see any answer on just this ONE point. Does this make any sense? I feel like I have to be missing at least one other alternative.

112 theparson  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:46:54am

Well, folks, I've got to get ready for church but I wanted to register my outrage at this heinous criminal act perpetrated by the RoP!
And know this, theparson keeps a loaded .45 ACP handy (ever since hanging up my badge for the cloth).

See you all later.

113 Excaliber  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:47:15am

No , it's not "normal " or routine for the FBI to get involved in a multiple slaying .

If the FBI can track down purveyors of kiddie porn , then they can track down the animals responsible for these murders .

114 hermeneutics  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:47:53am

Lets summarize:

So far, I've seen two proactive strategies on this thread.

First, self-defense -- protecting our own families and expecting less-than-adequate defense from the police, etc.

Second, writing to the media. The list of emails was given by AtlasShrugged in #82.

Third?

Fourth?

Hi Parson! I remember you from a couple weeks ago.

115 hermeneutics  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:49:09am

Third ... Somehow protecting our ISP addresses from terrorists. But how?

Fourth ...?

116 eeevil conservative  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:49:32am

#106 Atlas Shrugged

I MISSED YOU TOO! Legacy (ies) doing great!

I don't have proof- I was talking about each time a muslim does speak out- we roll our eyes instead of saying- "Thank you! At least ONE Muslim is denouncing the thugs." Do we let the Muslims claiming their religion has been hijacked speak out wihtout ridicule, or do we discourage them by bashing the religion? Maybe I am not saying htis right.

117 tomtho  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:50:39am

It's only a matter of time and will. I trust we're up to the fight as they're not hiding here anymore. The jihad is afoot and the sooner we step-up the better. To arms...!

118 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:50:59am
119 theparson  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:52:03am

eeeeeeeeeeevil

Contraryto your nic you are a good hearted woman, I know, and you want to give them the benefit of the doubt. But, what I'm saying is, the very few muslims who don't want violence are drowned out by those that do. And, they fear for their lives. So much so, they won't speak out. Their silence is as deadly as the knives of the others.
It is not a religion of peace and sooner or later those who are inclined to believe otherwise will either be destroyed or dhimmified.


hermeneutics

I would still defer to your theological prowess :-)


Now, I really have to get ready.
God bless all.

120 AtlasShrugged  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:53:10am

#103 American Infidel

We don't have the chess players for this game...Not in political office anyway and about 48 million other non-chess playing individuals...

I did not by any means mean to infer that this was a cakewalk or a "game" in the literal def of the word.

This is a battle for the world and the outcome lies in the hearts and minds of the American. We haven't fared so badly with a left wing MSM clubbing the American psyche to death with bats for the past 30 odd years. It is amazing that the right has accomplished as much as it has in the past three elections.

The eyelid of the American people is slowly being pryed open with a vast internet, grassroots crowbar that is INDEED AFFECTING CHANGE. It is a long long arduous road ahead. A task unmatched in world history............

And everyone and i mean everyone has their part to play........every action from the smallest detail to the largest act of war hold great import to our decided victory.

I am PART OF THAT SOLUTION
Choose.......part of the solution or part of thr problem (apathy is just as much an enemy as islamic fundementalism, left wing bias, etc)

121 hermeneutics  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:53:31am

eevil

You are saying it right.

You want to encourage moderate, self-critical Muslims.

Simultaneously, you want to expose and denigrate terror-mongering Muslims including these murderers in NJ.

You want both. But how?

122 Mr Pol  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:54:18am

#114 hermeneutics

Set up some honeypots.

123 aaron  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:55:48am
You just invented Jihadwatch. It tracks down Jihadi sites, shuts them down, and provides the FBI information.

Now if only the FBI did something with that information

Not to take away from Robert Spencer, but it's Internet Haganah that does the tracking and shutting down of websites.

As for the FBI, and getting back to this murder, it is *not* normal for the FBI to be involved in a local homicide. So you're looking at a hate crime or terrorism investigation. For all we know the murderers are people already known to the Feds and under some sort of surveillance, not that surveillance keeps anyone from killing, it just means that after the fact, and upon review of whatever wire taps or email intercepts they have, they may find evidence to back up a criminal complaint. Maybe.

Should you make an effort to hide your identity if you are, say, speaking critically of Islam on LGF or elsewhere?

Yes. Do as I say, not as I do.

And if you're the kind who ventures into the enemy's camp online to engage them in debate, consider using a good proxy server to mask your location, because the website's admin is one of your enemies, and is perfectly capable of providing information to people in your area who might want to track you down.

124 hermeneutics  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:56:31am

#122 Mr Pol

Elaborate, please.

125 Village Idiot's Apprentice  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:57:36am

#113 Excaliber

I didn't think FBI involvement was normal.
Spent a little time comparing two MSM articles to two lesser known outfits, and the presentation of facts could not be starker.
I get subtle hints from the reporting that there is just a little more involvement than "just" a robbery gone horribly wrong should warrent.
I hope there are things taking place that we are not aware of.
Maybe not, but I hope.
Should have seen my wifes jaw drop when I printed and showed her the different articles, grouped first as MSM, then the lesser know ones.
She hates guns, old family history, but now is thinking.

126 Geepers  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:57:50am

Beagle (#81),

Fox pedaling CAIR propaganda during 24 is just one example.

Don't make me fact-check yo ass.

127 eeevil conservative  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:57:56am

#121 hermeneutics

WHEW! Thanks, yeah that is exactly where I am lost. theparson brings up a good point- sooner or later- the moderate muslims may very well find themselves extinct- but I don't think that HAs to be the case- if media, men (part one of that solution- as Atals so well put it), etc would allow this to occur. But- this just doesn't seem likely. {sigh}

128 Excaliber  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:58:05am

Hackers of the U.S - UNITE , if there is an ounce of decency in you ----it is childs play for you to shut jihadi sites down .
You are smarter because you are all the more free .

129 Mr Pol  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:59:31am

#124 hermeneutics

I don't hide my real name, my address is easy to find, my car can't be missed. If you're a jihadnik, do come and attack me. Please.

130 JimmyTheClaw  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 8:00:46am

#12 Earl 1/16/2005 08:25AM PST
And the PC-constrained, dhimmified Jersey City police will conduct the investigation as merely a 'botched home-invasion that went terribly wrong' (channeling the MSM reportage)

actually the post article said the fbi was involved in the investigation

131 American Infidel[deleted]  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 8:00:50am
132 AtlasShrugged  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 8:01:00am

Gotta go guys

FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT
I will be back later to continue fighting..........................

133 hermeneutics  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 8:01:37am

eeeevil ... et. al.

I know that there are three, perhaps more, branches to Islam: Sunni, Sulfi and Shiite; but are their other smaller branches, something akin to denominations in Protestantism?

The reason I ask is that there may be particular strains of Islam that can be supported. Perhaps our public support of moderate/secular Islam could help them fight within their own religion?

Just a thought.

Any Islam scholars out there?

134 Buckaroo  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 8:02:54am

# 121 h


"You want to encourage moderate, self-critical Muslims."
We need to overtly support and publicize those (very) few that do speak up such as Free Muslim Coalition Against Terror and others ...

"Simultaneously, you want to expose and denigrate terror-mongering Muslims including these murderers in NJ."
That's the "easy" part -- we need to watch them, monitor their mosques and meeting places, track their movements, investigate their finances, and the **minute** they break a law, throw the book at them!

The burden of action is on **them** -- not us!
My "signature" quote on this topic (stolen from another poster months ago) -- "Until the ~80% of muslims who supposedly aren't islamists speak the hell up, they're part of the frickin' problem!"

135 thinkingmom  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 8:04:11am

And, all of us who voted for Bush need to contact him and other big Republicans and DEMAND immigration reform. Shut down the border flow of illegals and end any further muslim immigration into the U.S. Or we'll only have more of the jihad that "diversity" brings.

136 hermeneutics  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 8:04:40am

129 Mr. Pol.

And I DO refer to you politely, sir.

You are far braver than I. Those of us who are unarmed, female and less than 110 pounds do not set out honey pots.

137 Ann  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 8:05:10am

#123 aaron
Thank you for your work, aaron!

138 Poitiers-Lepanto  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 8:05:37am

In the last few days I had grown increasingly pessimistic but this murder goes beyond my darkest thoughts.

The muslims must feel they are already immensely strong here in the States if they do a thing like this.

CHARLES PLEASE TAKE YOUR SECURITY AS THE TOP PRIORITY OF YOUR DAILY ACTIVITIES.

And may we all find the right way to fight this war.

139 Mr Pol  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 8:06:39am

#136 hermeneutics

You are far braver than I. Those of us who are unarmed, female and less than 110 pounds do not set out honey pots.

Unarmed is easy to correct. And I never said I'd be alone.

140 texanista  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 8:08:05am

I for one, don't have a problem with confronting these animals in the first person. I think we should just be prepared for that and be able to execute when the opportunity presents itself. I think the "pc" word for us would be MinuteMen.

141 eeevil conservative  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 8:08:33am

#136 hermeneutics

AMEN TO THAT! Plus I have children to protect. I owuld never forgive myself if i decided DARING someone to come get me- or INVITING violence was the "thing" to do, and they were hurt- even in just losing their mother. That is not to say that I would back down from fighting ro speaking out- but I am not interested in INVITING danger to my home.

142 Buckaroo  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 8:08:47am

# 133 h

"The reason I ask is that there may be particular strains of Islam that can be supported"

Nope -- it's not the "denomination," it's the freakin' Koran -- as long as 'slims try to warp the world to fit that text, it's pretty much a lost cause, and again the burden is on **them** to say, "'kay, we're going to properly interpret these writings so we can, well, like, utilize electricity and automobiles to start with!"

143 Terrye  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 8:16:20am

Hey where are all those lefties bemoaning the slaughter of innocents for their beliefs?

Awful quiet out there....

144 Earl  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 8:16:31am

#130 JimmytC

Mea culpa. Per my subsequent post, having read the Star-Ledger link usefully provided by VIA above, it may be that the feds are going to approach this outrage as a terrorist act. This situation must be monitored to gauge the efforts HS and the FBI will take to counter islamism-in-action.

But this situation reinforces my concern that an islamist or sympathizer in an ISP could easily locate the names and addresses of anti-jihadist bloggers.

And for the jihadists, whether propagating daw'a in prison or a welfare-supported flat is irrelevent.

Effect your Second Amendment rights, America. It looks like Dr. Pipes admonition was correct that it would take further (post-9/11) "education by murder" to awaken the American public to the threat of islamism.

145 hermeneutics  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 8:16:48am

eeevil,

I, too, have little children to protect and I'm not interested in "inviting" danger. Still, it puts chills down my spine that this poor man's ISP address led to his murder and that of his family.

I refuse to be silenced on the web, but am I being dumb? Am I inviting danger? I hope not.

I'm not ready -- yet --to buy a gun. Honestly, I'm not sure I could effectively use it even when threatened. Then again, if my children were in harms' way I'd probably claw my way to their defense ...

The men on this thread have to do the harder hitting, I'm afraid. I meant that rhetorically -- they may have to be the ones who venture out in more hostile web territory. Perhaps we are returning to a chivalrous society when men see it as their duty to protect those who are weak or vulnerable?

K.

146 imtoast  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 8:17:47am

I have worked with muslims and arabs, the one thing that stands out is that by their very nature they are sneaky and lie with ease. To ask a moderate to stand up to an extremist is absurd. They may say they will but it just isn't going to happen. Backstabbing is in the quran and they live by that, even the "nonpracticing" muslims live by that rule.

147 Buckaroo  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 8:21:17am

# 145 h

"Perhaps we are returning to a chivalrous society when men see it as their duty to protect those who are weak or vulnerable?"

Hm -- the exact opposite of the islamists' view of things?
:-)

148 hershel  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 8:23:08am

eeevil con:

There is a small number, a very small number, of moderate Muslims (e. g. American Islamic Congress) who would like to change the "RoP". But they are completely overwhelmed by outfits like CAIR that are fueled by enormous amounts of Saudi/Wahhabi oil money. They don't have a chance.

This problem CANNOT be solved as long as the Wahhabis have control over a major portion of the world's oil supply.

149 Poitiers-Lepanto  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 8:24:57am

#144 Earl

Effect your Second Amendment rights, America

Holy words.
Buy what you need and go to the range A LOT.

The day will come that Police and FBI will need us.

150 hermeneutics  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 8:27:42am

Buckaroo,

Okay, I see your point. I don't want to hide under a black sheet or stay in the house.

Perhaps, in this context, chivalry means accepting responsibility for watching over those who are stepping out in the wild web without protection? Perhaps it means no more than finding a way to guard our ISP addresses?

I'm no pansy, dear, and I'll put my MIND up against any male intellect -- and I will win. But my body, sadly, is quite small.

K.

151 little boomer  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 8:29:37am

Someday muslims will commit such an atrocity that there will be a Christian/Judeo/Agnostic backlash within the US.
It will be ugly and justified.

I preach to the choir, I know.

152 Manfred the Wonder Dog  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 8:35:10am

If any of you LGFrs haven't done this already, please grab the PalTalk contact email address from the link in post #26 above and drop them a line. Point out to them that American freedom and internet business conventions combine to enable them to profit from their service and from the sales of information gleaned from their subscribers. Remind them that they have moral, ethical and business reasons to help bust the savages who did this (if indeed it was another of their subscribers, which seems likely) and that the online community is watching.

If you're a PalTalk subscriber, point out that you may need to rethink your chat choice depending on their actions. Ranting may not help, but Money Talks.

Beagle #21- slug. Definitely.

153 Gringo  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 8:35:43am

I goggled the name and clicked on New Jersey papers to see what one said. On the third page of ten articles each I found one from the Home Journal. Read the entire article and there was no mention of chat rooms, muslimes, religion, threats, etc. whatsoever from any source including the police.

Color me not surprised....

154 Raziel (Troll Devouring Blader)  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 8:37:55am

I have put up a poll on FFI of the below question that you may be asking yourselves about this evil murder.
Should we rely on our respective goverments to protect us against islamofacism?

I'm asking because in some parts of the World, it has got to a point in which one cannot fight islamofasicm through legal means because some Goverments have more or less abandoned their Citizens to their fate.

How doe's one fight against islamofasicm when our own respective Goverments are actively on islamofasicm's side by hampering ones efforts to fight islamofasicm by legal means and so leaving (what our Goverments declared) ilegal means as the only option? *

*by our Goverments bring in Dhimmi style laws such as:

- the so-called "hate speech" laws in the uk

- one being unable to defend themselves from muslims (and their willing "tools")

- and others

155 Pickle  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 8:41:33am

Helter skelter.

156 american soldier  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 8:43:17am

#35

I've been saying this since 9/11. When America interned Japanese in WWII, their sons, almost to a man, demanded the right to go to the Pacific and kill Japanese in defense of this country (They got sent to Italy, instead. Go figure).
You have not seen lines of American Moslems lining up at recruiters, demanding the right to head East and kill [bigoted word]s in defense of America. You have not seen the American mullahs standing up and saying to their Middle Eastern brethren, "stop! enough!" You do not see American mosques holding care package drives for American troops.
/endrant (for now)

157 Buckaroo  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 8:49:14am

# 156 a s

"They got sent to Italy, instead. Go figure"
Well, I'd hate to have seen them at say, Guadalcanal and be subject to a horrible fratracide incident ...

Your point however is exteremely well taken -- speaking from the home of the 442nd RCT and 100th Battalion, I have decided not to hold my breath to see a middle eastern equivalent ...
:-(

158 levi from queens  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 8:49:58am

133 h -- Steven Emerson agrees with you that the solution to extremist islam is moderate islam. Of the three strains you named, the sufis are the most moderate (but they are not really a major group.) They are currently being slaughtered in Darfur, Sudan. The Sunnis come in a variety of groups with the Wahabis of KSA being apparently the worst. The Allawis (which include both the dictator of Syria and I believe but am not certain, Saddam Hussein) are little better.

Clearly W agrees also.

Just as clearly, LGFers generally think islam is hopeless.

I keep looking for mechanisms so that muslims bear the costs of islamic terror, in the hopes that muslims will choose to end those costs.

159 sandspur  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 8:52:51am

Bigel #47

Mr Pol #44

Obviously the ROPers in NJ think they have the numbers to impose sha'ria. I hope they're wrong.

They have the numbers in Paterson, Jersey City and Newark.


I think some of the 9/11 murderers lived in Jersey City for a time

160 Bayou_King  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 8:57:29am

#145 hermeneutics  1/16/2005 10:16AM PST
 
I'm not ready -- yet --to buy a gun. Honestly, I'm not sure I could effectively use it even when threatened. Then again, if my children were in harms' way I'd probably claw my way to their defense ...
-------------------------

herm, a short-barrel 12-gauge works a lot better than claws when defending children.

it sounds like you have moral objections/trepidation, which is fine.

if you read john locke you will learn that self-defense and the defense of innocents is actually a high moral calling.

the fact that you post here shows you are intelligent and an individual. as such, WE NEED YOU

please consider exercising your 2nd amendment right to own a firearm, to help the rest of us collectively defend this nation.

using a 12-gauge to defend your home is a no-brainer. though i don't know you, i guarantee you can do it.

1. the most effective deterrent to a home-invasion robbery is when the malefactor hears the distinctive double-click of a shotgun slide. most of the time they will pick another house.

2. if they are foolish enough to continue, you don't have to be a good shot to defend your kids. point a short-barreled shotgun anywhere in the general, and you will hit something. if you load it with 6 shot (usually used to hunt doves), it will be quite effective, but can't go through a wall to endanger your neighbor.

3. an inexpensive but effective short-barrel 12-gauge can be had at your local sporting goods store for ~$200

by the way, check out my home alarm system:

to transport a pistol on an airline, one must declare it at the counter - it must be unloaded in a locked case, and in your checked luggage. you have to show it to the clerk, and open the chamber to show it's empty. then they have you sign a little tag that is tied to the trigger guard.

this tag usually says in bold letters, "FIREARM UNLOADED"

i have one of these orange tags tied to a nail over my front door. this leaves the thinking up to the burglar, as to whether i am home, and whether i am carrying my pistol with me when i pull into my driveway and surprise him.

(sounds weird, but psychology is important with the bad guys!)

161 american soldier  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 9:02:01am

Addendum:
The dirty little truths that you'll never hear from MSM & the rest of the PC crowd-
1. Iraq is just one campaign in a much larger war.
2. This war IS a World War.
3. This war IS a religious war.

162 sandspur  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 9:02:37am

The girl was outspoken at her school. It could well be one or more of her "classmates" that did the murders. Teen boys are likely to act impulsively, especially if they are being regularly incited by their imams.

163 JimmyTheClaw  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 9:03:54am

case facts

no forced entry [possibly someone the family knows]

tied up [easy to control for the slaughter]

valuables still there [not a robbery]

body mutilation

online prostelyzing to muslims [a very dangerous thing to do]

online involvement of exposing christian persecution in muslim dominated countries [bad dhimmi]

anyone else have something to add?

164 American Infidel[deleted]  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 9:05:18am
165 Poitiers-Lepanto  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 9:09:52am

#163 JimmyTheClaw

anyone else have something to add?

I have a lot to add, but Charles would be compelled to ban me and the leftists, friend of the islamofascists, are just waiting for one reason to kill this Blog, so I will keep quiet.

166 Catttt  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 9:14:22am

Horrible.

Islamofascism is calling, America. Are you aware yet?

Now, check the numbers in countries with Islam in control - millions of non-Muslims have been slaughtered.

Also, Fox News just proposed a link to the Blind Shiek's followers.

167 Buckaroo  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 9:14:38am

# 165

Imagining P-L's rant and smiling ...

168 justdanny  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 9:15:47am

#148 hershel

There is a small number, a very small number, of moderate Muslims (e. g. American Islamic Congress) who would like to change the "RoP". But they are completely overwhelmed by outfits like CAIR that are fueled by enormous amounts of Saudi/Wahhabi oil money. They don't have a chance.

They don't have a chance not because they have no money, but because they are not loud. They are not proud to be against Islam enough to stand out in a crowd, as loud as lightning and raise hell. It is not like a muslim to speak egainst another muslim. It is ingrained deep within their belief system not to do it.

I continue to believe there is no such thing as a moderate muslim. If by moderate muslim one means a coward muslim who is A. afraid to do violence on behalf of islam and B. afraid to stand up verbally in public against every notable leader of their vile system, well then yeah, sure, I imagine there are tens of millions of those.

169 reader  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 9:16:44am

Terrorist Hunter's site tracks them. I think this is a site Charles should strongly consider linking to.

170 Jeff S.  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 9:18:35am

It started long before this. RFK ring a bell? Ari Halberstam?
Time to re-reform the Immigration Reform Act of 1965, eh Teddy?

171 JimmyTheClaw  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 9:19:13am

wtf fox just called them a muslim family

172 American Infidel[deleted]  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 9:20:21am
173 dennisw  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 9:24:34am

More lies about what's really in the Koran:

FROM THE BERGEN RECORD

Islamic leaders said Saturday that the murders could not have been the work of someone inspired by the Quran.

"We are not a bloody people," said Ahmed Shedeed, director of the Islamic Center of Jersey City. "This is not from the Quran. This is not from Islam at all."

Shedeed, who is Egyptian, said his group recently co-founded a social service organization with local Coptic churches, called Egyptian Family.

Asked about passages in the Quran that may suggest murdering non-believers in a manner that resembles the family's deaths, he replied, "The Quran talks about people fighting in the battle of war. It's not talking about people who live next to you. ... This has nothing to do with our community at all."

"The Quran stands very firmly against taking human life," said noted Islamic author Zayn Kassam, chairwoman of the religious studies department of Pomona College in California. "If someone read a verse and used it to justify the killing of four people, I believe that person is unbalanced. ... There are very few Muslims who would support this sort of thing."

174 JimmyTheClaw  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 9:28:49am

wtf they did it again? anyone here from jersey that can clarify this?

175 gutterfiend  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 9:30:20am

Stories like this make me wish Canadian law allowed carrying a concealed weapon. I feel very vulnerable right now.

176 American Infidel[deleted]  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 9:31:04am
177 justdanny  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 9:32:59am

Charles

I don't expect you to comment on this and I know it has been said many many times before.

If you have'nt already, you need to make your personal safety a very high priority.

You need to delist your self from everything. You need to have your residence and business examined by police to show you areas of concern you might not realize. I don't know about there, but here it is a free service provided by the police.

You need to be aware and alert when you travel around town.

There are several easy and inexpensive steps you can take to greatly decrease the chance leftys and jihadis can get at you.

I worry for your safety. It is one thing that we have the certifiable loons of the left who would rejoice in any harm done to you, but these mind fucked followers of manson/islam manslam see beauty in their own deaths, and probably 72 virgins in yours.

I'm sorry to be so pointed.

178 american soldier  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 9:34:47am

#148 hershel

There is a small number, a very small number, of moderate Muslims (e. g. American Islamic Congress) who would like to change the "RoP". But they are completely overwhelmed by outfits like CAIR that are fueled by enormous amounts of Saudi/Wahhabi oil money

You know what a moderate Muslim is, don't you?
That's one willing to let the Israeli people stand in the Med in water that's only up to their knees.

179 Poitiers-Lepanto  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 9:35:13am

Fox has not put these news on its home page.

We are passing a door that leads us to a very dark place.

As individuals, only our intelligence and our strength will help us from now on.

#71 Ferrethouse


And so it begins
180 Jeff S.  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 9:35:37am

I can't believe those evil Jews are bringing their worldwide campaign to smear Islam right here to America's shores, and resorting to murder, no less!

/Islamist reader of this news story

181 zuukie  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 9:37:16am

There is something larger going on here that I would ask you to consider. Muslim are being used for a larger goal just as Christian Germans across the world were before and during WWII. There is a larger movement called the New Age movement which has its roots in the occult. Occult groups were behind the Nazi movement and they are very active now politically in the international New Age movement.

The internationally connected occult Nazis needed bodies to do the war and propaganda for them and so they puffed up a group of Christian Germans with a false sense of pride and a faked up history. They broke Christian unity by financially supporting this branch that supported Nazi thinking, literally buying them. These sponsored Christians then supported the Nazi work against the Jews. The Christians who were morally opposed to what was going on had to go underground rather than openly fight the vicious Nazi/occult movement.

I am saying a version of this is going on. According to the occult, the time of Christians and Jews is over with and we are to move into a New Age. The occult connected EU and the UN support the Palestinians and the Muslims whose establishment figures are attacking both Jews in Israel and Christians. Cumbey said a goal of New Age was to turn monotheistic believers against each other. It is happening.

Muslims are being used in the same way German Christians were. Both groups sold their souls for material promised gain. The fanaticism of Muslims now is similar to the fanaticism of German Christians who supported Hitler. Paid for propaganda works.

I'm not making excuses for Muslims. If they sell their souls, they will end up paying a big penalty as German Christians did. In the long run they will lose family and property.

The New Age movement is large and very active here in the US. As a New Age leader told me at the Parliament of World Religions meeting here in Chicago, the only difference between New Age and the Nazi movement is that this time people will have a choice regarding which route they choose to take.

If you go after "all" Muslims, you will be going the same route as those Christians who justified killing all Jews. Individual Muslims could be a large force against one world government and one world religion. As a group they are not buying into the United Religions movement and so in the long run they will have to be eliminated by one worlders.

Layers upon layers of conspiracy.

182 Ojoe  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 9:38:40am

Free Men! Free Women! Better take out this hateful religion once and for all or we and our children will live in fear and not dare to think our own thoughts, much less express them.

183 Catttt  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 9:40:21am

And most of the stories, including ones I found on cBS and from AP, say NOTHING about their religion, about Islam, or about the chatroom, then they appear to have conveniently dropped the story.

If Fox has picked it up, they will run it and run it and run it, if they think it is a hate crime against Christians.

Hope the FBI is called in. Being traced from a chat room and being tortured and slaughtered for your religion? Hate crime.

184 Poitiers-Lepanto  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 9:40:26am

#177 JustDanny

see my #138

(I echo you to be sure that Charles reads this).

I would add that the FBI should be asked for some form of protection.

And all of us (me the first, even if I do not exactly surf in a sea of money) should contribute financially so that Charles can hire professional bodyguards.

185 nagasaki_hata  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 9:44:01am

#25 AtlasShrugged

Read this article carefully. THIS IS NEW JERSEY! This is America, these are our neighbors. This is the US. Savagely barbarically murdered for speaking out. Wake up and smell the future...................
they will kill anyone that speaks out
how long before they come for you
and me
and my kids
it is very serious

Exactly my thoughts as well!

Probably the Mohammedans (Mohams) monitor LGF regularly, so we need to take all necessary precautions.
In that vein, buy appropriate weapons (shotguns are always a good choice for newcomers, especially) and learn to use, care and store them properly and encourage your friends and neighbors to do the same.
Remember it's not being paranoid if it's true. This shows it's absolutely true.
Deporting all foreign born Mohams, and stripping citizenship from all domestic-born Mohams, and disallowing any from entering the USA is the best answer, therefore it won't be done.
At least not while we still operate under a facsimile of the US Constitution.
We live under the Chinese curse -- "May you live in interesting times."

186 Catttt  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 9:44:21am

Fox is headlinging the story, and they specifically mentioned the hate crime/chat room angle.

187 American Infidel[deleted]  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 9:45:08am
188 Catttt  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 9:49:37am

AF, I think dear Dari misspoke. I heard otherwise on Fox before I saw this thread, which led me to the NYPost story.

189 American Infidel[deleted]  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 9:56:27am
190 Catttt  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 9:56:53am

Zuukie, I don't know much about a New Age one-religion conspiracy (ok, I know nothing about it), but I do know a lot of Pagans, Witches, and Druids; I even know people involved in Voudon. These people could not be less desirous of one world religion. I know not one person amongst them who would take even one step in that direction. I don't know if you meant to imply this, but I wanted to mention it, just in case.

191 Crazy Diamond  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 9:56:53am

#141 eeevil, #145 herm,

My wife doesn't want a gun in the house, and we've got a daughter to protect. After one particular brutal murder story, though, she was willing to start taking jiujitsu. A gun is better, but if you don't trust yourself you can take smaller steps.

She weighs within a few pounds of hermeneutics, and I outweigh her by at least 70 pounds (32 kg for UK/SI readers). She could throw me after one lesson, and I wasn't helping. Next week is lesson #2.

192 reader  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 9:58:20am

To the Copt community, my condolences, to this great man and his family. This is a terrible loss, one that I hope will not be forgotten. Its time the world learned of your struggle.

Now let me just say this to the Copts and the rest of the disapora community. Any insincere or phony public apology from any Muslim group, and by that, I mean if they try to insist this is NOT ISLAM, either in character or theology, I hope will be rejected, then refuted. You certainly do not need to be told or lectured what is Islam, since you know better than anyone, as the treatment of Copts and other religious minorities in Muslim lands has been horrific since Islamic mauraders arrived. Therefore, it is my hope that you also take this as an opportunity to talk to the general public about Islam, to teach it about the level of oppression, discrimination, intimidation, imprisonment, violence, and murder that exists and is a part of the everyday lives of persecuted minorities in the Middle East. Talk about what Muslims say when they justify their hate, what Koranic verses Muslims may cite, upon their committing such crimes (in public or online), so that others will see them and know Islam and Muslims in their true light. Show all the jihadi verses in the Koran if you have to. Further, teach people about Islam's cruel history and its laws of dhimmitude. This could be your moment to help educate others, to get the word out. Very few people in the west know who or what a dhimmi is, and what dhimmitude means, as a system and instrument of oppression. It is a word still not spoken, and rarely written about in the mainstream. My great hope is some journalists, some news network will give you honest exposure. Right now, our best hope is Fox, and it is to them that I will be writing to.


Cattt #166,

Most Americans are still clueless. I consider it partly my responsibility to educate them, since I've spent considerable time educating myself about Islam. I'll be out in the public, reaching my usual quota of 3-5 new people this week. I won't be intimidated and I won't slow down. Sharia won't come to America. Americans are not to be intimidated, even if our politicians do bow and scrape.

193 American Infidel[deleted]  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 10:03:12am
194 Catttt  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 10:03:39am

A woman can best a man in a fight - even a larger one, if she gets the drop on him. I'm no kung-fu expert, and I've knocked men backwards onto their ass a time or two.

It's really important to be aware of your surroundings. I had a loaded pistrol under my car seat when I drove alone cross country, but I no longer own it, and I do need to get one. I've been putting it off due to the red tape in this blue state.

Also - Fox is now quoting details on the NJ killings, and they are being specific about their Coptic faith, as well as showing lots of pictures.

195 Brenda  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 10:33:43am

It's my understanding that many Christian immigrants from Muslim-ruled countries come to America to achieve the religious freedom and safety they believe they will find here.

The brutal slaughter of the Armanious family is all the more tragic and unacceptable if the murders were indeed Islamic retribution for speaking the truth.

If you are fortunate enough to live in a district whose Rep is in Tancredo's Immigration Caucus, I urge you to phone and recommend an end to immigration from the official terror-supporting nations (as defined by the State Dept.), at the very least. You can call toll-free to Congress at (877) 762-8762.

Here's a list...
[Link: www.house.gov...]

It's suicidal insanity that we still welcome immigrants from countries that work for our demise.

196 Howling Cat  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 10:43:47am

I sent the Post article to a local columnist in the Dallas Morning News. He had a column today about Muslims being misunderstood.

197 Lawrence Schmerel  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 10:46:15am

I hope whoever committed this crime is caught.

Catching whoever did this should be top priority for those in charge. I hope they are making it their first priority.

198 sgt tom  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 10:54:11am

67 bayou king
with 2 deportations to my credit... what do you think i do?
:)
the army also has a homeland security section...
we're all havin' fun!

199 sgt tom  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 10:59:32am

191 crazy diamond

good for you for being supportive of her...
good for her for taking lessons.

now, once she's done that, both of you take (sp.) aikiddo.
fastest route to being an awesome hand to hand fighter.
t'ai chi ch'uan is argued to be a better "form" but takes a decade or more to become suitably proficient (and i'm sure iron fist or others of his ilk will jump in on this and chastise/correct me).

the practice of contact sparring is a good way to overcome fear of being hit. 'cause after they're landed they're best punch, the party is just beginning!

200 Mr Pol  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 11:05:20am

#199 sgt tom

Forget aikido. Krav maga.

201 Albertanator  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 11:05:41am

This is obviously a killing by Islamic terrorists...........the stab in the wrist gives it away completely.........it is a reminder that all of us have too be careful!

Islam tolerates no dissent!

202 kafir  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 11:06:03am

#25 AtlasShrugged

Sadly I agree with you. We are collectively going to have to make some very hard choices in the near term. I suspect these choices are going to make things like the patriot act look aweful tame.

Franklin did comment on security and liberty, but that is 225 years out of context, and we face a completely different, and absolutely amoral and unreasonable enemy. This is an enemy that kills when its "honor" is besmirched. This is an enemy that kills when it can relieve the world of some "sons of apes and pigs."

We have to protect our children and ourselves. Dhimmitude is not an option, nor is simply going away.

We are going to have to deal with it, and do so with finality. This problem cannot simply be passed on to our children. We have to end it. Now.

203 Poitiers-Lepanto  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 11:08:37am

#200 Mr. Pol

Forget aikido. Krav maga

What's that ?

204 foreign devil  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 11:09:03am

#184 Poitiers-Lepanto:

I sent the link to both the NYTimes story and the one at the NYPost to the FBI tip page on the Internet.

205 Raziel (Troll Devouring Blader)  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 11:11:00am

203) Poitiers-Lepanto
Krav Maga site

206 Poitiers-Lepanto  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 11:13:40am

#205 Raziel (Troll Devouring Blader)

Thank you.

207 Pennies for Patriots  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 11:17:25am

If anyone feels inclined to send condolences to the Coptic community of Hossam Armanious and his slain family I suggest they try fowarding them to his church at the address in the following link.


www.stgeorgejc.org/aboutus/aboutus.htm


Contact information:
St. George & St. Shenouda Church is located on:
835 Bergen Ave.
Jersey City, NJ 07306

Take this moment to show our solidarity with the Coptic Christian community on such dark day.

Perhaps a donation to their church would serve as a validation of Hossam Armanious' devotion to his faith.

If you want to make a difference in the world, this is your curtain call.

208 sgt tom  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 11:24:17am

200 mr. pol

in the end, it's all the same.
it's a pathway, not a destination.
i was suggesting what might be best available to them...
since that makes a difference too.

comes a point when style is transcended.
that's what i was talking about...
even "hard" style and "soft" style meet in the middle.

209 montanapatriot  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 11:33:47am

Recently, there've been a lot of people over at Jihadwatch, too, working on chapter projects, getting materials together, coordinating stuff. Susanp I think is the main choreographer.

210 Brenda  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 11:34:36am

On the subject of self-defense, nothing beats a gun, of course. But there are many useful items one can purchase at the hardware store which can be terrific supplements -- and don't require special training or permits either.

As a homeowner, I never know when I might need a nail pulled from some stubborn hunk of lumber. Nail puller tools come in some very handy shapes, and I have been known to carry one "just in case."

And every home needs at least one heavy crowbar. Or several, so you don't have to walk far to find one.

211 Iron Fist  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 11:37:32am

#191 Crazy Diamond,

Ju Jutsu (various spellings, but basically the same art) is great as a sport, and can be effective self defense. I've studied it (my instructor was a cop; he also taught KPD S.W.A.T. grappling :-), and to be really competant you need to look at grappling. However, in a real fight, you don't want to be on the ground. You may wind up there, you have to be able to deal with it if you do, but I would never plan to go there.

I'm a Dragon Society affiliate (I've never formally joined, and I need to get that taken care of). There is no master art, but there are master instructors. That is what to look for.

It takes about five years of hard work under good instructors to get to where this stuff flows naturally, but even then you have to keep practicing. I've been at this for 24 years now. I've studied half a dozen or so styles from Okinawan, Chinese, Japanese, and Fillipino cultures. I'm pretty good with everything from bare hands to blades.

My home is defended by two 12 ga. shotguns, backed by a 9mm pistol.

Karate is what I use when they've gotten past my knife and my gun. Or when I don't have those options.

My $0.02.

212 sgt tom  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 11:39:01am

210 brenda

i have a nice claw hammer within easy reach in my jeep.

the most misused tool on earth, i've dug holes with it, chopped wood with it...
and yes, i would happily beat the crap out of the fool that messed with me with it.

213 sgt tom  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 11:40:27am

211 iron fist....
i knew you'd be here with a good insight!

what have you got, some kinda tivo for martial arts posting on lgf?
:)

214 montanapatriot  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 11:46:56am

#105

Done. Sweettalked Drudgie baby.

215 Iron Fist  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 11:47:58am

#213 sgt tom,

I always search on my nic when I first log on. It usually just gets my last post, but If I see my name crop up on a thread I haven't posted on, I always check it out.

And you are right. At some point, the Path transcends the style if you progress far enough.

216 Axiom  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 11:50:32am

Check this out.

A Muslim started a petition against Paltalk to end the "hatred" towards the Islamic ethnic minority.

To: Paltalk

Mr Jason Katz,

We the following feel shocked and appauled that such a commodity as Paltalk is being used by certain elements and parties to harvest hate against ethenic minorities, in particualar against the Islamic faith. To us this is racist and unacceptable and a sickness that should not be tolerated for long. Racial terminoligy and profanity have been used in G-rated rooms by certain parties who shall rename nameless unless their nomenclature is required. A suffering to which children have been subjected and their young minds wrongly manipulated to feel hate towards certain elements. We feel it is your responsibility to put an end to this.
Hence we ask of you to correct such wrongs before the hate consumes more people and causes more pain for some. Racism is something that the better part of the world condemns and doesnt allow. We, the undersigned hope that we can soon count Paltalk, a community of four million that stretches across the globe among that better part.

Jason Katz is the Founder and CEO of Paltalk, Inc.

217 sgt tom  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 11:54:58am

215 iron fist

you are such a good guy.

remind me that i owe you a round or two of the beverage of your choice sometime... before the goat-fuc

218 sgt tom  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 11:58:59am

wow...
part of my post cutoff...
was saying before the goat loving muslims outlaw it...
isn't this a great country?
and let's hope our children get to keep it that way!

219 Mr Pol  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 11:59:44am

#208 sgt tom

You're right. The reason I recommend krav maga is that it teaches you the basics faster than any other art I know of.

220 montanapatriot  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 12:04:33pm

#145 Heumenutics

You'd probably never have to even shoot a shotgun because just the sound of that chamber loading is more'n enuf for most people.

221 sgt tom  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 12:06:09pm

219 mr pol

that's ok pal.

it's "one team one fight", right?

like language, teaching style, and pedagogy... no one thing works "best" for everyone... some people learn best in different ways. and the addition of aikkiddo trap-blocks to someone with a basic set of skills turns them into deadly arm-breakers in no time!

222 sgt tom  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 12:07:52pm

220 montanapatroit
i love the sound of a 12 gauge being racked...
but even more, the sound of the slide jacking on an m-16!

now that says "i mean business"!@!

223 sgt tom  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 12:23:55pm

just a note...
the corner on nro has picked up on this...
!the corner (you may have to scoll down... c'mon folks, it's the edge of mainstream media!
so even if the msm isn't going to follow this, the folks that ultimately shape opinions, and even tweak the elcubos, are noting it.... in case you haven't realized it... people, that's YOU!

all it takes is an outspoken, adament and unstoppable few to shift this country. don't lie down and submit to dhimmitude!

talk.
tell your friends.
make sense when you talk.
and don't stop!

224 EE  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 12:45:29pm

With the fanatic Muslims in our midst, there are at least two freedoms that are under attack. One is freedom of speech. The other is the freedom to live without being murdered.

When Theo van Gogh was murdered in Holland, we could look at that and say that the Euros don't know what they are doing, etc, etc. But when the same phenomenon comes to New Jersey, we cannot look down on Europe's troubles; we have the very same thing right here.

What happens in Europe is a sign of what is going to happen in our country. We have to awaken to the danger.

225 zuukie  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 12:52:51pm

#190
The New Age movement has two components, the religious and the political ones. The groups you mentioned are not part of the leadership, but I'm sure they have encountered anti-Judaism and Christianity messages in their communities. I know I've seen writings which talk about how bad the monotheistic religions are, i.e., Judaism and Christianity, how they have persecuted those who are opposed to their belief system. Try talking to some of those you know and ask what they know about Judaism and Christianity.

Muslims have not been made aware, from what I can see, of the dangers of New Age. They have been used as soldiers in the war against Judaism and Christianity, bought off with EU promises and UN money. They will be kept around as believers until they are no longer useful. Just as the Christians under Hitler thought they were not vulnerable, so it is with the Muslim community. Until the Islamic community wises up, they will be an enemy.

There is a children's game called Farmer in the Dell. The farmer stands in the middle and takes someone out of the surrounding circle. That person takes someone who in turn takes someone out until everyone stands in the middle and the last person left hears "The Cheese stands alone" in a sing song voice. The New Age movement has been working in that way, group after group being pulled into the New Age movement.

Some information and and disinformation is on the net, but don't expect there is single leadership or anyone who puts the information on a platter.

These times require great discernment.

226 Egfrow  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 1:12:27pm

The front lines of this conflict are on the streets of our cities and in the schools. The enemies are getting organized and prepared.

227 Lawrence Schmerel  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 2:22:51pm

#216 Axiom 1/16/2005 01:50PM PST

I hope the FBI is looking at that petition. I would be looking at signatories that indicate they are from New Jersey. I would want to see the server that compiled the list of signatories. This seems like a case that should be cracked.

228 Axiom  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 2:57:03pm

#227 Lawrence Schmerel

Paltalk is apparently a pretty big service. They serve a number of clients in the Middle East with VoIP and communication encryptions. It will be very difficult for law enforcement to seek mutual cooperation from Paltalk.

229 montanapatriot  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 3:34:32pm

It's now 6:30 pm and I don't see anything on Drudge yet.

230 Gambisin  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 3:37:57pm

I might be wrong but it seems this mosque sets off something in my memory - a connection to the Blind Sheik who is currently in jail for terrorism.
Does anyone else know about this?

231 Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 3:53:07pm

Time for a hangin' party.

232 montanapatriot  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 3:55:54pm

#222 Sgt Tom

Hey, I want to try an M-16. I HAVEN'T LIVED !

233 PETN Sandwich  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 4:05:54pm

#216 Axion

Holy Effin Shiite - 334,000 sigs ?!

234 sgt tom  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 4:10:54pm

232 montanapatriot

m16 is nice... m60 or saw is nicer...
but if you really want to turn on the hose, you need to move up from light to heavy.

biggest thing i've ever dealt with was the chapparal... forerunner to the patriot air defense batteries, which ironically, my daughter is currently serving with.

235 Gambisin  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 5:27:18pm

#216 Axiom 1/16/2005 01:50PM PST
Check this out.

A Muslim started a petition against Paltalk to end the "hatred" towards the Islamic ethnic minority.
-------------------------
Notice how the 300,000+ signatures are most concerned about "hate speech" or insulting Islam.
Not a single concern for murder. Whoever said the attitude would be that the victim "brought it on himself" by insulting Islam was right on target.
This seems to answer the question about peaceful, "moderate" Muslims. Anyone whose first concern and major action is focused on silencing objections to their chosen ideology has just "earned" whatever disgust they get!
Where is the Muslim petition against murder?

236 RayA  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 5:35:09pm

Even in this country we can't express our views freely... There is nothing in the news about this, Lacy was in the spotlight for over a year... but four poor Coptic Christians... who cares? right?

237 HULUGU  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:44:21pm

this is nothing new--egyptian islamists have been killing copts for decades in upper egypt--and even in the suburbs of cairo--looks like a muslim brotherhood hit job to me or takfir wa hirjira--take your pick--takfiris are the really vicious ones so i go with them

238 pwinWHOH  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 6:52:01pm

It's time to call it for exctly what it is, a religious hate crime. It should be presecuted that way, and the guilty, charged with first degree murder, and then executed.

It seems that the "Religion of Peace" has struck again. Also seems that thwe muslim and islamic world have a loooooooooonnnggggg way to go to prove they are, in fact, even remotely a religion of peace.

239 minuteman  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:00:27pm

Time to ban islamic immigration. If I recall, during the cold war, the State Dept used to require immigrants to disavow any communist connection to be allowed in. We need to do the same now. I'm sure all the dhimmis out there will whine about freedom of religion etc. But if islam is all encompassing for the believer, ie both a political as well as a religious system, then it stands to reason that citizenship etc should not be extended to anyone whose core belief is to relace our Constitution. Bad enough if you are born a citizen and come despise the Constitution after attending an ivy league school, but to let someone in who from the start wants to destroy us is insane.

240 milford421  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:08:26pm

Interesting update....apparently, the murdered man's cousin is the FBI translator working on the Lynne Stewart/Abdel Rahman case. Indeed there does appear to be an Islamic connection.

241 gymnast  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:16:09pm

#240, milford 421. Unless proven otherwise, there is a connection. You don't suppose the culprits could have been enraged Kiwanis Club members by any chance? ///

242 milford421  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:19:56pm

I understand the Kiwanis, Elks, Boys and Girls Clubs all had alibis...I believe the working theory will pay off on this one.

243 Roger  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:36:30pm
Qur’an 4:47 “O you People of the Book to whom the Scripture has been given, believe in what We have (now) revealed, confirming and verifying what was possessed by you, before We destroy your faces beyond all recognition, turning you on your backs, and curse you as We cursed the Sabbath-breakers, for the decision of Allah Must be executed.”

There is a spiritual interpretation to this quranic verse?

244 big wabbit  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 7:42:18pm

It has begun !

245 Crazy Diamond  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 8:36:05pm

#211 Iron Fist

Definitely worth more than $0.02, thanks! We’re not locked in by any means, so any suggestions are welcome. And if you’re ever close by, I’ll echo sgt tom (#217) and offer you some suitable drinkables. Homebrewed if you prefer.

My main limitation is (well, besides time) my wife’s comfort level. She actually became willing to practice some form of unarmed self-defense when she read about silat. But, there are no teachers in northeast Colorado or southeast Wyoming, at least none we could find out about. When we discovered a jiujitsu (sorry, it was the first spelling I ever ran into) instructor who worked with families as a whole, she was comfortable with that, so we started. I thought it’d be encouraging to others to know that after one lesson, in a scenario where I, as attacker, get the drop on her (#194 Catttt), she was still able to consistently throw me to the ground even though I was definitely not helping her. It certainly made her want to go back for lesson #2.

Thanks to Mr Pol (#200) for the ref to Krav Maga, which I’d never heard of before.

246 theheat  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 11:40:03pm

It's time to start running these greasy fucks out of town, out of state, out of the country. Let them eat sand and die in their own backwards shitholes.

247 Beagle  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 11:44:22pm

#126 Geepers

Don't make me fact-check yo ass.


I heard CAIR is getting PSA's during 24, along with scene removal. Feel free to fact-check it. I dunno.

I feel so sorry for our grandchildren. We think it's bad now.

248 Self Hating Muslim  Sun, Jan 16, 2005 11:49:10pm

I have a concern about the Paltalk company.

Can anybody suggest a reason why Paltalk would facilitate encrypted emails from visitors to their company website?

I reported on the rather suspicious facility I came across when I looked up the company's email contacts.

I fully appreciate that encryption is used by good guys as well but wonder why a company "dedicated to providing the best quality video and voice conversations, easiest-to-use product, and the friendliest community among any product anywhere" makes such a fuss about it.

249 Cornish Intifada  Mon, Jan 17, 2005 12:31:00am

I remember a similar thing happening with a hit on a copt called "Dr Malik" back in the 80s or early 90s in Sydney. HE said some things about islam so he was killed- I wonder if the cops caught his killers.

Seems if you are a Copt your not safe anywhere thanks to fcked up immigration policies.

250 Anne Elk (not AN elk)  Mon, Jan 17, 2005 12:34:47am

I haven't had time yet to read all the comments, and I am coming in late but on the off-chance that someone will read this:

PLEASE PLEASE be careful what you post about yourself on blogs and other such forums.

Some LGF members have posted so much personal information that they can be easily identified down to their desks and home addresses.

Many nasty people read this site - for whatever reasons they have - and you do NOT want them to be able to find you to deliver their opinions to you personally.

251 Anne Elk (not AN elk)  Mon, Jan 17, 2005 12:52:40am

Oh - and one more thing:

When you go slumming in nasty websites, the site owner can identify your IP address. That's the computer you are connecting from. Sometimes they need your Internet Service Provider's cooperation to identify you down to your desk, but sometimes not.

Even free web software can tell you how someone got to the site and from where. The pros have fancier software.

Yes - that means if you go to a site and start ranting at them, they can possibly find you based on what your computer is saying about you, before you even open your mouth.

252 RickZ  Mon, Jan 17, 2005 1:44:18am

On A&E's Justice Files, they had a story about a St. Louis family, the Isa's, I believe the name is spelled. The parents honor killed their daughter because she had the audacity to work outside the home at a fast food restaurant for {gasp} spending money, and dated a boy whom the parents did not approve, ordering her to stop seeing him. The mother held the daughter down while the father stabbed her repeatedly, all the while saying, "Die, my daughter. Die!" The words were captured on a wire-tap tape, as the family had been under suspicion of terrorist activity. The parents were convicted of frst degree murder and sentenced to death. The father died in jail before being executed, and the mother's sentence was commuted to LWOP. Didn't hear too much about that case, either, did we?

Murder in the name of islam is here in the US. The WoT is a war against islam. It is a war not of our choosing, but islam's. When is our media going to report the who, what, when, where, and why of these islamic based crimes? And what is our various levels of govenment going to do to protect citizens from a hate-filled, murderous islam?

# 159 sandspur:

I think some of the 9/11 murderers lived in Jersey City for a time

It was the islamic bombers of the WTC in '93 that lived in Jersey City.

# 181 zuukie:

If you go after "all" Muslims, you will be going the same route as those Christians who justified killing all Jews.

Bullshit. This is now, not then. Christ's message was warped by poltical ideologues. The koran is the 'Mein Kampf' of islam. The hate within islam towards Jews, Christians, and other infidels, is taught from childhood.

253 Village Idiot's Apprentice  Mon, Jan 17, 2005 3:18:46am

The morning update seems to have some other new info in it.
Morning update

254 PETN Sandwich  Mon, Jan 17, 2005 4:13:58am

#253 VI's Apprentice,

You ain't shit'en 'bought the "new" info.

Those gaping slashes, those were really just scratches, probably self-inflicted when the family unwisely tried to stop a simple robbery. They would have been just fine if they chose to leave the house rather than get hurt trying to fight. In fact, if there were any survivers they would likely be charged with assault for attacking the robbers, being Jersey and all...

255 Roger  Mon, Jan 17, 2005 5:01:44am

Yea, it's in every burglars MO to knive an unarmed 8 year old girl to death Especially a team of burglars.

256 American Infidel[deleted]  Mon, Jan 17, 2005 5:09:45am
257 Village Idiot's Apprentice  Mon, Jan 17, 2005 5:10:48am

#255 Roger
I ain't saying it's not RoP related.
Just linking to the article.
The FBI involvement reported in the previous article seems to indicate a higher than normal level of involvement.
I have my suspicions that it ain't just a robbery, but I am trying to stay up on the info as it comes to light.

Trying to find updated info on this one seems to be rather hard. Spent quite a while with google before I even found this article that was not just a repeat of the previous news.

258 Geepers  Mon, Jan 17, 2005 5:22:57am

Beagle (#247),

Don't believe what CAIR says. They're liars.

However, he [Fox spokesman Scott Grogin] corrected CAIR's statement that Fox agreed to ask affiliates that the PSA "be aired in proximity to '24.'"

Grogin said Fox only agreed to distribute the PSA to affiliates and will make no request as to when, "or even if," it is to air.

[Emphasis theirs]

259 Roger  Mon, Jan 17, 2005 7:18:02am

#257 Village Idiot's Apprentice, yea I didn't tribute it to you but to the 'authorities' in Hudson NJ. Thanks for the morning update link.

Question is, can these cavalier authorities find these 'burglars' or will the closed islamic society handily succeed in protect them? Many Americans are Americans because their ancestors wanted the freedom to express their faith without fear of harm. Now US government authorities are going to allow a hostile (anti-)religion take away that freedom? Any Muslims reading this site? I see Charles has registration open...

260 urthshu  Mon, Jan 17, 2005 12:51:04pm

When they kick at your front door
How you gonna come?
With your hands on your head
Or on the trigger of your gun

You can crush us
You can bruise us
Yes, even shoot us
But oh-the guns of Brixton

261 SunCat  Mon, Jan 17, 2005 5:27:50pm

Much like the murder of Emmett Till. Islamofascists are Klansmen.


This entry has been archived.
Comments are closed.

^ back to top ^

log in
Name:
Pass:

Register Forgot Your Password? My Account Re-send Confirmation (To log in, cookies must be enabled in your browser!)

► LGF Headlines

► Top 10 Comments

► Bottom Comments

► Recent Comments

► Tools/Info

► LGF Hits

► Slideshows

► Resources

► Never Forget

► Statistics

► Tag Cloud

► Contact

You must have Javascript enabled to use the contact form.
Your email:

Subject:

Message:


Messages may be published in our weblog, unless you request otherwise.
Tech Note:
Using the Contact Form

► News/Opinion

More Partners

Compare Electricity Prices in your area. Texas Electricity is deregulated; you have the right to choose Texas Electric Rates from among many Texas Electric Companies.

Ban fascist headwinds.


PC & Video Games