LGF

-RetweetInside Info on New Jersey Killings

Thu, Jan 20, 2005 at 5:34:38 pm PST

Jihad Watch received some inside information from a close friend of Hossam Armanious, the Coptic Christian brutally murdered in New Jersey along with his family: Inside information on the New Jersey murders.

The Armanious family had inspired several Muslims to convert to Christianity — or thought they had. These converts were actually practicing taqiyya, or religious deception, pretending to be friends of these Christians in order to strengthen themselves against them, as in Qur’an 3:28: “Let believers not make friends with infidels in preference to the faithful — he that does this has nothing to hope for from Allah — except in self-defense.”

Of course, the family, not suspecting the deception, was happy to see the “converted” men and willingly let them in to their home. That’s why there was no sign of forced entry. Then the “converted” Muslims did their grisly work.

Many Copts are regarding the murders as a warning to the Coptic community as a whole, related to the increasing strife between Copts and Muslims in Egypt and the Copts’ energetic efforts in America to get the truth out about the differences between Middle Eastern Christians and Muslims — differences that the Islamic lobby, with its disingenuous talk of “Arab Americans,” routinely glosses over and hopes you don’t notice. The Copts, to their immense credit, have been particularly outspoken among Middle Eastern Christians about Muslim oppression. And yes, many are active on Pal Talk debating Muslims.

The nature of the warning? The murders send a signal from the Muslims to the Copts: we are going to behave here the same way we behaved in Egypt, and the First Amendment and American law enforcement will not protect you. Don’t expect America to keep you safe from us. The oppression and harassment you thought you had left behind in Egypt has now come to you.

If this is true, the killings in New Jersey are the American equivalent of the Theo Van Gogh murder in the Netherlands, a political killing motivated solely by the need to silence effective critics of radical Islam.

Advertisement

275 comments

  • Comments are open and unmoderated, and do not necessarily reflect the views of Little Green Footballs.
  • Obscene, abusive, silly, or annoying remarks may be deleted, but the fact that particular comments remain on the site in no way constitutes an endorsement of their views by Little Green Footballs.
  • Posts that contain phone numbers, street addresses, email addresses or other personal information will also be deleted, as will posts that consist only of a variation on the word, "First!"
  • Comments that advocate violence will be cause for immediate banning with no appeal.
  • Disagreement and debate are welcome, but insults and abuse are not, and may cause your account to be blocked.
  • REMEMBER: posting comments at LGF is a privilege, not a right. Abuse that privilege, and your account will be blocked.

Hide comments | Jump to bottom

1 bigel[deleted]  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:37:22pm
2 Thom  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:37:36pm

Any chance you could ban kelly before she notices this thread?

3 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:37:59pm

This scared me enough to make me stop using my name on LGF, and I wish people would start referring to me only by my new nic.

4 lazytart  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:38:32pm

Oh dear G-d.

5 Hari Seldon  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:39:37pm

i think someone should tell the copts about the SECOND ammendment. heh looskl ek they cud use it

6 Hari Seldon  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:39:59pm

thom...
why ban kelly?

7 bp sf  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:40:55pm

I moved from San Francisco to central New Jersey recently, this has been really upsetting me all week.
The Jersey City official response is pathetic pandering.
The menace is Everywhere, USA.

8 RedWhiteAndJew  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:41:45pm

Can't help but think of a metaphor about serpents and bosoms.

9 RebeccaH  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:42:03pm

And they won't stop with Copts.

10 Billy Budd  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:42:32pm

Is anyone really suprised that this was a hate crime carried out by representatives of the religion of peace? America wake up! This is coming from a community that has proven time and again that it has no interest in assimilating in to American culture. It's mission statement is to supplant it.

11 Bob G.  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:43:32pm

Let's jihad.

12 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:43:52pm

I'm not sure why JustDanny suspects this, but he thinks Caca90210 might have been involved in last week's DDOS attack.

13 theatrical homeschooler  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:44:30pm

Everyone knows the old adage about debates, that if one side resorts to name-calling, it proves they've lost. So if one side resorts to MURDER . . .

14 Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:44:38pm

The 'slims really don't want to go that route...

15 pookleblinky  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:44:56pm

#3 Ed Mahmoud Abu al Qahool Martyrs Brigades

I understand your worries, but will I will never yield Pookleblinky. Jihadists can take my Pookleblinky from my cold, dead hands!

What did the rest of that nic mean?

16 Earl  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:45:05pm

I despair that Dr. Pipes is correct- that it will take "education by murder" to get America (and, one trusts, Canada) to recognize and respond to the islamist threat in our midst.

17 lazytart  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:45:45pm

I hope the troll criminal is reported.

He needs to pay damages.

18 Marine Momma  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:46:29pm

Where's Fiery Celt when you need her?! Some day people had better start to realize that islam is hell bent on killing our freedom, especially of other faiths. It is not a religion of peace and I wish Bush would cut that out! We are in a war guys, and we had better win this one.

19 theatrical homeschooler  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:46:51pm

bp sf #7
So what has the official NJ response been?

20 Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:46:54pm

Question - if worst really did come to worst, who here besides me would be willing to meet these jokers in the streets and defend our homes, even if means blood, ours or theirs?

21 rorschach  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:47:27pm

"religious deception" is an oxymoron.

This is a perfect concept for a "religion" of peace practiced by morons.

22 Shifra  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:47:35pm
If this is true, the killings in New Jersey are the American equivalent of the Theo Van Gogh murder in the Netherlands, a political murder motivated solely by the need to silence effective critics of radical Islam.

So what do we need to do to get the publicity for more non LGF readers to be aware of this? The reaction in the Netherlands happened because Van Gogh's murder was well publicized.

23 ferris  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:48:02pm

I get dirty looks every time I say this in polite company but it is long passed time we stop allowing people from Arab or islamic nations into this country. We also need to revoke visas for non-citizens.

I know this is an awful wide net that will negatively impact a lot of good people but we have to stop this crap right now. We can't let the islamo-nazis bring their 11th century mindsets here any longer. We are at war after all.

As happy as I am about W. today I know this is one area he's going to let me down. Good God, citing the Qu'ran in his speech today? Insane!

24 RebTex  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:48:19pm

bpsf
Not to worry!
The police & city managers across this Nation would handle it the same way.
They're scared of calling a spade a spade.
Don't forget the moslim menacing meeting near Dallas, in my home state of Texas.
No one knew anything about it untill it was over.
Then, there wasn't anything done to make me feel safer.
No questioning, no "looking into" the ones that participated.
The silent invasion has began!

25 lazytart  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:48:42pm

Titus, two from this household.

26 Marine Momma  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:49:10pm

ferris. you don't have to be arab to be muslim. look at the morons from california who joined A-Q.

27 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:50:47pm

Pre-registration, the nick changed daily.


Reference to whether or not the Gulf of Mexico was or wasn't at the minimum required temperature for tropical cyclone formation.


BTW, above about 28C, major tropical cyclones can develop.

28 ajhatz  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:51:04pm

I'd stand by you Titus.

29 Steffan  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:51:30pm

#20 Titus

I'm investing in ammunition. Seems to be a bull market for it.

30 Hoosierdaddy  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:52:04pm

if this is true, they'll hire a liar, oops I meant lawyer, that will plead some form of insanity. They'll get a padded cell for 20 years with an arrow pointing toward Mecca and a Koran, instead of a poke in the arm. Meanwhile their Imam that convinced them that this is the right thing to do will walk around free as a bird with the blood of the murder victims on his hands as well as his sheep that followed his leadership through his words. Won't his Allah be proud of him?

31 Obi-Wan  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:52:12pm

#20 TQC

Count me in!

32 thinkingmom  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:52:27pm

As I noted on another thread, this atrocity is a good example of the difference between Christianity and islam: the Copts, having escaped the land of persecution, exercise their free speech rights and try to persuade their neighbors of the truth of Christianity. Their muslim neighbors lie to them and then slaughter them.

And, Pres. Bush's Koran reference notwithstanding, lying and murder are tenets of the RoP.

33 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:53:34pm

Copied from other thread. CaCa may be posting from Carpinteria, CA, according to my anonymous sources

Never been drunk in Carpinteria, but I once caught a boat to Unocal's Platform A from Carpinteria.

Awesome the way the Monterey Shale, which oozes a thick, viscous tar, rises up just a few hundred meters from the coast, while offshore it is almost a kilometer deep.


Holy Strike and Dip, Batman!

We did stop at a brewpub/restaurant in the Grapevine on the way home where the West Coast drilling manager bought us micro-beer brews.


A few weeks later, Richard Stegemeier, CEO of Unocal at the time, brought me some Budweisers, and we hung out, ate BBQ, and talked.


BTW, don't know if "Okie Girl" is still on I-5, way up near the Tejon Pass, but the owner, a genuine "Grapes of Wrath" type refugee, came by.

34 RebTex  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:53:53pm

#20 TQC
Count me in!
Also, my wife & both boys.
All are able to hit the spot.
& certain days of the month,my wife is RELENTLESS!
Seriously, We've had that very question here & all agree it's the only way to assure the future of our way of life.

35 ferris  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:53:55pm

#26 Marine Momma

True but you have to start with the obvious.

36 thinkingmom  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:55:29pm

I used (pre-9/11) to be all for gun control. Now I'm seriously considering arming myself! I do not intend to be a dutiful dhimmi.

37 Aisha  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:55:33pm
You don't have to be arab to be muslim.

Nope; just say your shahada, and bingo! you're a Muslim and beloved son of Allah Ta'ala.

Sticking your butt in the air five times a day is highly encouraged, too.

O Allah! We beg help from You alone; ask forgiveness from You alone, and turn towards You and praise You for all the good things and are grateful to You and are not ungrateful to You and we part and break off with all those who are disobedient to you. O Allah! You alone do we worship and pray exclusively to You and bow before You alone and we hasten eagerly towards You and we fear Your severe punishment and hope for Your Mercy as your severe punishment is surely to be meted out to the unbelievers.

38 RedWhiteAndJew  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:56:14pm

Anyone have a cast lead bullet lubricant recipe that includes lard?

39 theatrical homeschooler  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:56:25pm

But if the MSM keep their heads in the sand, that means we have nothing to fear, right?

...sarcasm dripping on keyboard

40 Stop Hillary  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:57:26pm

Won't make a dent here in NJ. The media is so multi culti they won't honestly report the story because it would force them to come to grips with their balantant distortion of facts and refusal to recognize the muslim threat for years. In NJ, it didn't happen the way its being reported here, if it happened at all.

41 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:57:51pm

BTW, having heard GWB's Koran reference on Savage, and realized that he mentioned Jewish scripture without naming it (The truths given at Sinai) and Jesus without actually saying his name (The Sermon on the Mount) the mentioning of the Koran sounds particularly cowardly.


I can only hope its in there as his version of taqiyya to keep some of the less aggressive Muslims from going on the path of jihad before we are ready.


Mr. Pol thinks the Rice nomination delay (which I see as just an act of Demonrat bitterness ) delays what he believes will be an attack on terror targets in Syria.

I hope so, but I'm not confident.

42 RedWhiteAndJew  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:59:16pm

thinkingmom:

There's plenty of expertise here to help you make good choices when you decide to stop considering and start arming yourself. It's a shame it took 9/11 to bring you to the light, but I'm glad your here, nonetheless.

43 RebTex  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 3:59:44pm

Red White & Jew
I have one that uses bees wax.
I also have a couple recipies for good, smooth moonshine.

44 mudmarine  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:00:06pm

You can bet that info won't be in the MSM. Of course, the original story received two small para's from my local (400,000? circ) rag. But they did run a half page story on a new "learning" center opening up a few weeks ago.

"Ed Mahmoud", maybe that is one benefit from my old hippy days, I just occasionally change the focus of my paranoia.

45 Aisha  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:00:19pm

Before entering the toilet (left foot first), one must say "Allaahumma Inniy A'oodhu Bika minal Khubuth Wa Khabaa-ith" ["O Allah, I seek Your Protection from the male and female devil"].

Before leaving the toilet (right foot first), one should say "Ghufraanaka. Alhamdulillahil lladhiy adh-haba `annil Adhaa Wa `aafaaniy" ["I Seek Your Pardon. Praise be to Allah who removed from me discomfort and gave me relief."].

How can people resist the beauty and wonders of Allaah Ta'ala's perfect religion, Islaaam!

Allahu Akhbar!

46 theatrical homeschooler  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:01:32pm

Ferris and marinemomma,
Check out the other news today about the 6 men who may be plotting some sort of dirty bomb attack.

4 of the 6 are Chinese.

47 Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:02:17pm

Islam - the religion where you go to hell for getting a little sprayback on you at the urinal, but yet, where you are supposed to wipe your tush with your bare hand.

Confusion?

48 RebTex  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:02:40pm

Thinking Mom
Look into a cheap, Chinese Officers 9mm pistol.
My wife loves hers!
& it fits well in most any purse.
Cheap rounds & LOTSA noise...if you don't hit them,& you get 9 tries, the noise will run'em off!

49 bp sf  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:02:48pm

In response to widespread speculation that the crime stemmed from religious fanaticism, the Hudson County Prosecutor's Office noted that the killers left behind no hate messages, nor did they desecrate Coptic Christian artifacts that belonged to the family.

In fact, authorities disclosed that the Coptic Cross tattoos which all four family members had on their inside right wrists "were not defaced."

"We know that money was taken, whether that was the primary motivation, we don't know," said DeFazio. "To think that someone would commit this type of crime for a small amount of money doesn't make sense. That being said, maybe there was a load of money in the house. A tremendous amount of money might explain this type of crime."

(From the Star Ledger, LLL fishwrap, and the paper Tony Soprano picks up off the driveway)

50 Mr Pol  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:04:00pm

#41 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades

Mr. Pol thinks the Rice nomination delay (which I see as just an act of Demonrat bitterness ) delays what he believes will be an attack on terror targets in Syria.

I didn't say that. I said that the Rice nomination delay can explain a delay in attacking terror targets in Syria. Any further delay after the nomination will prove that Syria is right and the US is little more than a paper tiger.

51 thinkingmom  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:04:28pm

#42 RedWhiteandJew
Thanks--gotta run now, but I would be interested in what knowledgeable LGFers would suggest for a beginner's firearm...

52 pookleblinky  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:04:51pm

#38

Ever hear of General Jack Pershing?

He fought against muslim terrorists in the Phillipines in an operation shortly before WWI.

His troop caught only 50 terrorists. He had his soldiers soak their bullets in pig's blood before killing 49 terrorists of them. Then he threw their bodies into a pit full of pig entrails, and let the fifth one go. This halted any further attacks.

Sepoy Rebellion!

53 pookleblinky  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:05:26pm

PIMF!

...49 of them.

54 Earl  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:05:40pm

#45 Dave

Get back to billing hours, or your law firm will boot you out into the hot Oz sun.

As for "How can people resist the beauty and wonders of Allaah Ta'ala's perfect religion, Islaaam!"

Simple: ISSA AKHBAR!

55 Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:06:05pm

Thinkingmom - Invest in a good 12-ga. shotgun, automatic if you can, but pump is cheaper. Pound for pound, it's the best melee-range firearm you can own, IMHO, as it packs quite a punch and you barely even have to aim. Just be sure your spray arc is clear of good guys.

56 pookleblinky  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:06:26pm

PIMF again!

...fiftieth...

agh.

57 Marine Momma  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:06:38pm

theatrical homeschooler...do you homeschool or are you homeschooled? just wondering, i homeschool my kids.
the chinese story hit msm last night. it is on one of the threads here last night as well.

58 RedWhiteAndJew  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:07:16pm

OT:

A little comic relief...notice the keffiyeh

D'oh!

59 Spiny Norman  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:07:39pm
Before entering the toilet (left foot first)...

Because Mohammed (panties upon his head) was an obsessive-compulsive all his followers must be, too?

:^P

60 mojoey  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:09:00pm

I know I don’t post much, but I read a lot. This murder has scared me in a way I have never thought possible. My hope it was just a robbery/murder, but Ma always said hope the best, prepare for the worst.

I posted a picture of a Coptic Cross on my blog if anyone is interested.

61 Mr Pol  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:09:18pm

#55 Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

Try a flamethrower. You'll never look at a shotgun again.

62 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:10:43pm

Mr. Pol


Thanks for clarifying that.

63 Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:11:40pm

#61 Mr Pol

I like the way you think ;)

64 LiveFreeOrDie  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:13:07pm

#20 Titus.

I think the answer is - enough Americans would join you.

If they try to Jihad in this country, they will all fucking die.

There is not really any question about this. Every cleric that speaks duplicitiously will die. And they will all be spied on 24/7, and those that are working against America behind closed doors will be shot, or die from well timed heart attacks.

I hope it doesn't come to that, because a lot of innocent Muslems will die. Hopefully they'll integrate instead.

65 TalkinKamel  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:13:29pm

#60 mojoey

Thanks for the pictures of the cross.

66 Terrye  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:13:37pm

Perhaps Bush mentioned the Koran because he thought that reference would not be as familiar to us as the Jewish and Christian ones. Hopefully the Hindu and Buddhists won't be offended. The man only had so much time.

I think those folks in Jersey City better be prepared to protect themselves but the fact that I am from the south, white and protestant does not make me a member of the KKK so perhaps we should give the benefit of the doubt to the Muslims that have done us no harm..

for now.

67 Abu Maven  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:13:39pm

A question for the board:

How in the hell would anyone know who the actual murderers were? Is this based on evidence or pure speculation? And if there is in fact evidence, why aren't these taquiyya-practicing fucks being detained and questioned right now?

To be sure, I believe the Religion of Peace is behind this. But I'm skeptical of this "inside info."

68 Earl  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:13:50pm

#47 TQC

Now, let's not exaggerate:

From the Umdat al-Salik, s. e9.5 "GOING TO THE LAVATORY":

Stones suffice to clean oneself...Anything can take the place of stones that is a solid, pure, removes the filth, is not something that deserves respect or is worthy of veneration, nor something that is edible (O: these being five condiitons for the validity of using stones)... It is obligatory to both remove the filth, and to wipe three times, even when once is enough to clean it...etc. etc. etc. "

Lizards, buy a copy of the Sunni shafi'i shari'ah here:

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

It's the best $29 one can spend to better understand where the ummah leads.

Mentat has usefully and accurately digested the Umdat here:

[Link: boston.indymedia.org...]

69 Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:14:26pm

“I carried a water pot for the Prophet’s ablution and for cleaning his private parts. While following him with the pot, the Prophet turned and said, ‘Who are you?’ ‘I am Abu.’ The Prophet said, ‘Bring me stones in order to clean my private parts, but do not bring any bones or animal dung.’ So I brought some stones, carrying them in the corner of my robe till I put them by his side. When he finished, I walked with him and asked, ‘What can you tell me about the bones and the animal dung?’ He said, ‘They are of the food of Jinns [Devils]. A delegate of Jinns of the city of Nasibin came to me—and how nice those Jinns were—and asked me for the remains of human food. I invoked Allah for them that they would never pass by a bone or animal dung but find food on them.’” (Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 5, Bk. 58, No. 200)

Whaa...?

70 RebTex  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:15:11pm

We prepared during the LA riots.
THey tried to get riots going in Atlanta & Houston.
We stocked the ammo closet & vowed to NEVER be without sufficient ammo EVER!

71 Mr Pol  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:18:42pm

#63 Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

The LC T1 from Hydroar SA of Sao Paulo is my favorite.

72 Aisha  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:20:44pm

Narrated Abu Aiyub Al-Ansari:

Allah's Apostle said, "If anyone of you goes to an open space for answering the call of nature he should neither face nor turn his back towards the Qibla; he should either face the east or the west."

73 RebTex  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:21:19pm

Mr Pol
Isn't that particular model a little difficult to conceil in a purse?

74 happycynic  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:21:33pm

Titus,

In. I'll be bringing my good friends Mr. Mossberg and Messrs. Heckler & Koch. ;)

75 RebTex  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:24:38pm

Aisha
It speaks volumns for a culture that needs detailed instructions in the etiquette for "dropping a stink pickle".

76 cba  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:26:19pm

#52 pookleblinky:
I luvz ya, but I must point out that's a debunked urban legend. It's brought up every few months on LGF, and then someone directs the bringer-upper to this page on snopes: [Link: www.snopes.com...]

77 Former SSG  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:27:41pm

I reall feel sad for the Copts. I have met many Iraqis, educated people, Arabs, who say they are the most peaceful and gentle people in Iraq. BUT, the same people do not defend or protect them...

78 Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:27:45pm

#74 happycynic

Excellent, they's good people. I'll bring Mr. Winchester along for the long range work.

79 Billy Budd  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:27:56pm

69...Tim, Donde esta Blog?

80 Former SSG  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:28:37pm

Sorry, I didn't mean Copts in Iraq, but Iraqi Christians... I feel sad for this family.

81 Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:28:38pm

#76 cba

Maybe so, but it does provide a certain inspiration, know whaddamean?

82 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:29:35pm

Every now and then, I'll have the perfect poop, such that when I wipe, the TP comes away 100% clean. I always do a second wipe when this happens, just to be sure.

Of course, the most imperfect poop, that requires enough TP to risk clogging the toilet, is a far more common occurence.


At Great Lakes, IL, on the way to the swimming pool for the water survival class, they had a shower and bidet combination, not attractively decorated at all, but it blasted water from every direction, including down below. I thought it was a marvelous invention.

83 Iron Fist[deleted]  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:31:11pm
84 RedWhiteAndJew  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:31:58pm

Don't forget Miss Mossberg. She doesn't put on airs, but she's got it where it counts.

85 The Bruce  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:32:09pm

Ed M:

having heard GWB's Koran reference on Savage, and realized that he mentioned Jewish scripture without naming it (The truths given at Sinai) and Jesus without actually saying his name (The Sermon on the Mount) the mentioning of the Koran sounds particularly cowardly.

Bush had the entire presidential campaign plus the inaugural to identify the enemy, educate the public about its aims, and what we need to do to defeat them. But he decided we're too cowardly to do what's necessary and stupid enough to accept his endless bullshit about Islam.

His political cowardice is becoming as dangerous as the outright sedition of the Left.

86 RebTex  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:32:23pm

TQC
I use a Ruger M77 Mark 2 International for the LOOONG range work.
I reserve the Winchester for the intermediate stuff. : )

87 Billy Budd  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:33:06pm

Just bought the wife a SP101 ruger with hogue grips and we are off to the range tomorrow. She likes it!

88 Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:33:27pm

#79 Billy Budd

Mi blog esta kaput.

#86 Iron Fist

What about the ol' workhorse, the M1911A1? The .45 is a decent man-stopping round.

89 Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:34:20pm

#86 RebTex

Heh heh, don't have one of those, unfortunately.

90 RedWhiteAndJew  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:34:22pm

#82 Ed

TMI!

91 Iron Fist[deleted]  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:35:20pm
92 Billy Budd  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:35:25pm

88 Por Que?

93 Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:35:36pm

Oh, and here's one for the ladies:

“Allah said, ‘It is My obligation to make Eve bleed once every month as she made this tree bleed. I must also make Eve stupid, although I created her intelligent.’ Because Allah afflicted Eve, all of the women of this world menstruate and are stupid.” (al-Tabari, Vol. 1, no. 280)

If I were a woman, I'd be like, "where do I sign up?"

/sarc

94 RebTex  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:36:11pm

#83 Iron Fist
THe Norinco has been flawless in the 7 years of service here.
& it's perfect if you need to "leave it behind".

95 Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:36:38pm

#92 Billy Budd

It wasn't going anywhere but downhill.

96 Billy Budd  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:38:38pm

Ok, I thought it was BlogJihad

Hey i liked it!

97 Manfred the Wonder Dog  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:39:50pm

Those Coptic Christians in Egypt, that tattoo...some kinda big balls on those folks.

#20 TQC- me and mine.

98 Iron Fist[deleted]  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:40:12pm
99 Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:40:54pm

#96 Billy Budd

Nah, I doubt I was on anybody's radar screens yet. With juicy targets like Charles, why bother with a scrawny, garbage-can-scavenging opposum like me?

100 RebTex  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:41:54pm

About the tatoo...
Wasn't there something about marking the right hand & forehead?!
Maybe they put the tatoos there to prevent other markings?
Anyone know for sure?

101 Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:42:42pm

#98 Iron Fist

I ain't neither holmes. That's why I don't like revolvers. Not enough shots. And I figure, even if I am good enough to place every shot every time, I'd still like to place more than 5 or 6 (or 7, if you could that odd Colt).

102 ibmkeyboard  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:44:19pm

pres bush gave a wonderful speech.
just one fault.
he mentioned the quackuran, as being a great book to read.

103 Iron Fist[deleted]  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:45:26pm
104 Raziel (Troll Devouring Blader)  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:47:03pm

The only weapon I could get (being in the ummayad kingdom) is a Spyderco Harpy that cost £57.60 = $107.599, though I would prefer to have a Gun.

105 RedWhiteAndJew  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:47:42pm

For 9mm and 40 Short and Weak, take a look at the Magnum Research Baby Eagle. It's reliable, ergonomic, and made in Israel. If you want a 1911 pattern gun, check out the polymer 10-round jobs from Charles Daly and Kimber. They're also made in Israel, in part.

IMI (Israeli) ammunition and bullets are imported here. The IMI 9mm hollowpoint is an especially nasty looking brute. Kind of like a Winchester Black Talon, but without the cuddliness.

As much as there is to recommend German firearms, the way Germany has been behaving lately makes me not want to send any more money their way. Italy has stuck with us, so Beretta is still on the menu, though :) Consider French guns only if your priority is drop test ratings (rimshot).

Shame it hard and expensive to get Galils. Israel took a reliable combat rifle (the AK-47), and made it better.

106 sonofsheldon  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:48:25pm

I have seen neither hide nor hair nor mention of these vicious murders in my local paper, but they did run a fawning piece on a local Palestinian film student who made a short film on islamophobia.

This was followed a few days later with a long article about a muslim child who was taken from his parents many years ago because the parents were suspected of abusing the kid. The part that was supposed to arouse our anger was the fact that the kid was given to a Christian couple to be raised as a Christian.

As for self-defense, there were only friends' BB guns in my childhood, while my wife was raised by a proud hunter and NRA member. She hates guns though, and refuses to have them in the house. When we visit my in-laws in AZ, my son and I always go to the shooting range with my father-in-law. I'm trying to figure the best time to suggest that maybe a gun or two kept safely in the house wouldn't be such a bad idea.

107 RebTex  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:48:26pm

Iron Fist
Her's is a model 213 9X19mm
Great shooter!
Extremely fast action.

108 pookleblinky  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:48:53pm

#76 cba

Thanks for the link.

109 Kylaer  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:49:45pm

Thinkingmom - Invest in a good 12-ga. shotgun, automatic if you can, but pump is cheaper. Pound for pound, it's the best melee-range firearm you can own, IMHO, as it packs quite a punch and you barely even have to aim. Just be sure your spray arc is clear of good guys.

My personal gun is a Saiga 12-gauge. Semiauto, detachable magazine (I need to get some spare mags, only have one currently), reliable since it's based off the AK action, rather ugly due to being made of cheap stamped metal, but nicely inexpensive. Mine only cost $230; the Saiga may be a lesser gun than, say, the Benelli M4, but the Benelli costs over four times as much and definitely isn't four times as useful.

I need more magazines and ammo. A lot more ammo. #1 buckshot is the best for killing humans, I've read, because 00 overpenetrates and wastes some of its energy.

110 reader  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:49:57pm

How this story is covered by the media will tell you everything about how they think Islam and Muslims domestically should be covered. This really is a story with all the elements, one that represents the insidiousness of the threat, and depicts much more realistically and with an even clearer focus the true character of Islam, much more than any simple terrorist story could. Will the media bury it, just like the did when it first broke? Will any tv news magazine shows like "60 Minutes" touch it, now that is has become an even more interesting story? Will any other tv news networks cover it, other than Fox? How will the major print news magazines cover it? Will they also provide further focus, discussing how Christians are treated in Muslim countries for some background?


Shifra #22,

You raise a good question. There's no doubt the country is going through a slow evolution, a gradual awakening as to what is Islam. You can't look away. Everyday there are stories in the news. My suggestion would be to look to your neighborhood and communites for opportunities to educate. You may not be able to go directly to your local public library and set up a community meeting to discuss how terrible Islam is, but you may be able to broach Islam from a different angle . I've been thinking about this. Since we now have Middle Eastern Christians somewhat on the radar, through Iraq and this latest story, you might be able to focus on the issue of how Islam treats its minorities. This way you could also bring in discussion of sharia and dhimmitude. I'd like to see more authors, some Middle Eastern christians coming out with books of their own that will round out Bat Ye'or's research. Right now what we have almost exclusively are Muslims and Muslim organizations continuously trying to stream the discussion toward complaints about discrimination or intolerance against Arabs or Muslims, while almost no one from the dhimmi-side of the equation is presenting their side, to counterbalance it. Are Christian Arabs being discriminated against by Americans? On this, I've heard nothing. My guess is most are well-integrated and doing well financially.

Another suggestion is just something all too obvious. More of us need to go to other online forums, and away from the anti-Islam forums, just get away from LGF. This is not something easy to do. You could be in a forum and outnumbered 100 to 1, alone with no backup support. In that kind of situation, you really have to know your stuff, to be fairly well-read. I spend some time in other forums, but mostly just for reading. On many of these forums its obvious the people know next to nothing about Islam. Outside of blogs, that seems to be the mostly the case everywhere. Places like slashdot.org, a geek site that is also one of the busiest sites on the web, occasionally has spillover discussion about Islam or Muslims. Most of the discussion never gets much past the standard LLL propaganda, with Muslims playing the eternal victim role under cruel occupation and oil greedy western usurpers (aka Bush). Whenever I read this distortion, I often think these people probably don't even realize the Middle East has non-Muslim populations. That's how ignorant they are.

The bottom line is nothing much will change until we get a sizeable proportion of the public educated about Islam. We don't need a majority, be we need enough to challenge the taqiyyah that is running rampant.

111 RedWhiteAndJew  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:50:24pm

#103 Iron Fist

I love my East German Makarov in its native 9x18. It's accurate, and has a smooth (albeit heavy) trigger.

112 Iron Fist[deleted]  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:51:15pm
113 Stop Hillary  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:51:26pm

#49 bp sf -- "(From the Star Ledger, LLL fishwrap, . . . "

You are being charitable. I am full in the throat with the homage they are paying to Dictator Dick Codey, selected not elected. They are already campaigning for him everywhere but the editorial page. They will solemnly wait until the next election to confirm the campaign propaganda they give him for free every day as "news". The paper is wretched and as lying a rag as the NYT.

114 RebTex  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:52:04pm

Red White & Jew
I'm interested in the hollow point 9mm rounds!
All I can get in bulk around here is issue jacketed.
I've chucked a few in the lathe & made a hollow point, but it's too labor intensive.

115 Marine Momma  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:54:20pm

reader;The bottom line is nothing much will change until we get a sizeable proportion of the public educated about Islam. We don't need a majority, be we need enough to challenge the taqiyyah that is running rampant.


Sadly that won't happen until another attack. People are way too comfy with hiding their heads in the sand.

116 Jakester  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:55:38pm

Still think a good pump shot gun, with extended mag is the best all around weapon, never owned a pistol, but the 40 cal sounds like a good compromise!

117 mojoey  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:56:08pm

#100 Rebtex

My Coptic Christian Friend tells me the tattoo’s are placed on the wrist and forehead as a proclamation of faith and as an act of defiance. He told me it was a very proud “coming of age moment” for him and his family.

118 RebTex  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:57:26pm

Have Ya'll tried the Barretta U22 Neos?
It was my youngest's birthday present.
Incredibly accurate & fast!

119 Iron Fist[deleted]  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 4:58:43pm
120 RebTex  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:01:01pm

Iron Fist
Can't your local Sherriff sign you off on a carry permit?

121 The Bruce  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:01:55pm

Reader:

There's no doubt the country is going through a slow evolution, a gradual awakening as to what is Islam. You can't look away. Everyday there are stories in the news.

When the president won't identify who we're fighting and why--and then continues to whitewash their religion as a benevolent model on which to base American behavior... you know that we're in very deep shit.

122 Jakester  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:03:47pm

Not to throw water on everyones' dreams, but maybe it was some random bunch of psycho-scumbags who did it, after all that part of the world is crawling with all sorts of creeps!

123 gunslingah  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:05:51pm

#51 thinkingmom:

Not knowing anything about you, your experience, attitude, etc., I couldn't possibly make an informed recommendation as to what you purchase for self-defense purposes. My recommendation would be to find a reputable firearms/self-defense instructor in your area (local NRA chapter should be able to help in that regard), learn basic shooting skills, practice with a variety of guns, and settle on the one you feel most comfortable with. One firm recommendation I could make is that the 9mm cartridge is about the minimum caliber I would select for any personal defense weapon.

As for me, my customized Kimber .45 Gov't Model is my favorite handgun. All I am allowed to carry on the job is my SIG Sauer 9mm, as per agency policy. However, if I had any real reason to suspect that I might be getting into a gunfight on any given day, you can be sure I'd be carrying a hell of a lot more than just a pistol. (Read: shotgun, M-4 carbine, M-240G machine gun... the bigger and more powerful the better). The only advantage of a pistol is that you can carry it all the time, conceal it, and have it with you when you unexpectedly need it.

"First rule of gunfighting: bring a gun. Better yet, bring two guns. Bring all of your friends with guns."

124 RebTex  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:08:14pm

How can you tell the Metric system has really caught on?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
All the kids carry 9mm's to school!

125 FloridaHeat  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:08:30pm

I carry a ruger sp101 with hollow core bullets. Its very small, very strong, and the bullets open like a little umbrella on impact, boring a great big hole through anything you hit. My brother knows FAR more about guns than I do (sniper, swat team, collector) and prefers a 12 gauge shotgun for in home protection. But you see, while he would likely get out of bed and go hunt for his prey, I am far more likely to lay very very quiet, until the shadow darkens my doorway.

126 Beagle  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:08:44pm

#99 TQC

Nah, I doubt I was on anybody's radar screens yet. With juicy targets like Charles, why bother with a scrawny, garbage-can-scavenging opposum like me?


Don't feel bad, TQC. If I were Muslim, I'd kill you. :-)

127 ibmkeyboard  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:08:54pm

#20
titus,
it would be a pleasure to follow you into the street,
i will watch your back, if you will watch mine.
i have had a great life, and getting a chance to fight for my country 2nd time would be an honor, not to mention my grandchildern.
i hope it never comes to war.
but as patton said, we have to make these dumb bastards die for their religion/country, so that we can live for ours.
what the hell, better to die in battle, than to live another 30 years,with 10 of those in a va nursing home.

128 annelid[deleted]  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:09:33pm
129 The Bruce  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:10:02pm

You all talk endlessly about individual self-defense against an Islamic menace after it has established itself inside the US.

In short, you accept that Bush has failed to prevent Moslem infiltration and subversion of the country.

Meantime, the Moslem world is about to change the strategic landscape with nukes and won't wait before using them on us.

The war will be much shorter than the sweet talking politicians are hypnotizing us with.

130 RebTex  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:11:38pm

ibm Keyboard
I'd rather be caught in a leather bar,
with Dee Snider as my date,
slow dancing to some Bee Gee's music,
before I'll bow on a rug 5 times a day!

131 Aisha  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:11:55pm
It speaks volumns for a culture that needs detailed instructions in the etiquette for "dropping a stink pickle".

You know, If I were the Big A, the omnipotent, the Compassionate, the Merciful, the Perpetually Enraged, etc (Allaah Ta'ala), I don't think I'd particularly care which direction the faithful faced while taking a dump. There are more important things for God to worry about, you know.

Similarly, if I were God, I wouldn't be too fussed about the length of beards and pubic hair, either. I'd be more worried about my followers blowing things up in my name, all over the place.

Perhaps that's just me.

132 RebTex  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:13:52pm

#129 Bruce
Bushes failure?!
The oil ticks have been silently invading the U.S. since the 70's!
Get real!

133 Iron Fist[deleted]  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:14:04pm
134 Jiving  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:15:09pm

Not just Copts getting massacred in the US. The Muslim onslaught against non-Muslims is continuing unabated in SE Asia. In Thailand local Muslim terror hit a new low when their gunmen opened fire on a school bus carrying Buddhist school children. In the light of the Maalot massacre & recently the Beslam massacre, it is interesting that ROPT operatives seem to instinctively massacre children - wherever they are in the world.

The attack preceded Muslim New Year (Hari Raya) today. Two gunmen on a motorcycle shot at a bus carrying 24 students from Sai Buri Chaengprachakarn School on Tuesday night.

''They shot us because we are Buddhists. All students in the bus were Buddhists and the bus was sending them back to their Chong Maew village.

[Link: www.bangkokpost.com...]

Depressing to also see that the Bangkok Post tries to spin the incident by first mentioning local Muslim groups predictable, unconvincing condemnation ahead of actually describing the incident.

135 SJKevin  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:15:49pm

I, too, would suggest that it's way too early to be jumping to any conclusions about this murder. It's a bad idea to cry "wolf" until you're absolutely sure that it is, in fact, a wolf.

We should educate people about the dangers of jihad and dhimmitude, in general. But I'd leave this particular case out of it until the facts are in.

136 ibmkeyboard  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:16:42pm

pres bush is a great man,
but i am sorry that he mentioned the quacoran, as being a great book, and something to model our lives after.

137 gunslingah  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:16:58pm

As for knives, I've always liked Cold Steel knives. They come from the factory sharp as a razor (literally: you can shave with them); they are practically indestructible; and they open with a flick of the wrist. Really good knives, and affordable, too. (A Cold Steel Voyager costs like $70-80, and is legal in California for civilians to carry!)

138 FloridaHeat  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:18:06pm

#129 The Bruce

In short, you accept that Bush has failed to prevent Moslem infiltration and subversion of the country.

Happened WAY before Bush, honey. The handguns are silly against nukes, but in the aftermath of such an accelerated conflict they will be a necessity of life. I'm prepared to survive. Are you?

139 RebTex  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:19:14pm

#133
I hear you!
I participated in the Tough Man fighting contests for a little while.
I found out later that if I got into a bar fight, I would be in BIG trouble!
It doesn't seem very fair.
The folks that train are much less likely to cause a problem on the streets, yet they're punished more than a joker just making trouble.

140 theatrical homeschooler  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:21:50pm

#57 Marinemomma
I was off the thread to make dinner, etc.
I am the teacher to my kids. The "theatrical" refers to my writing and directing youth musicals.

141 Aisha  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:24:21pm

Assalaamu Alaykum Wa Rahmatullaahi Wa Barakaatuhu

Violence is not confined to wherever Islam is.

There is much violence in Ireland, Kosova, Congo, the Great Lakes region and elsewhere. Presently, American and China are at loggerheads with one another. Yes, Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) promoted the killing of these non-Muslims who are actively engaged in destroying Islam and the Muslims. This is the command of Allah Ta'ala Himself in the Qur'aan. This type of killing is not simply permissible, but
commendable and worthy of reward. This doesnot mean that Islam teaches to kill all non-Muslims.

Being rich and poor is not a sign of acceptance and rejection respectively in the sight of Allah.

142 Iron Fist[deleted]  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:25:54pm
143 gunslingah  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:27:05pm

#133 Iron Fist:

What style(s) of martial arts do you follow? Just out of curiosity.

Legally, the right of self-defense can never be taken away from anyone. Some politically-motivated prosecutors will attempt to indict people (including cops) who were justifiably defending themselves; but, if you can reasonably articulate why you felt in imminent fear of death or serious bodily injury, and why you felt no other recourse than to use deadly force, you should be in no serious legal jeopardy.

BTW, if you were to kill or seriously injure someone with a knife, you (given your martial arts background) would be in just as much trouble, if not more so than if you shot someone. In fact, the prosecutor would probably try to couple your martial arts background and your choice of "fighting" knife to suggest to the jury that you were a particularly bloodthirsty and unstable individual. Bottom line: if you live in a right-to-carry state, I would get a firearms permit. And carry.

"Don't bring a knife to a gunfight..."

144 Raziel (Troll Devouring Blader)  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:28:39pm

119) Iron Fist

Practically everything is overpriced here in the uk, from Cars, Petrol, Diesel, Mountain bikes, etc.

You could buy a Car for 1/4 of the price in Eurabia and 3/4 in the US, even if I were to import something like a Car from another country the Taxman would make the import Price only slightly cheaper then the UK one (sometimes as little as £10!).

145 ibmkeyboard  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:31:49pm

#141
so you bastards do admit that this is a legal killing.

come on down to north carolina, the water is great,
and we have opened the hunting season on islamsicks.

146 ninetails  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:34:49pm

Not really OT, but, does anyone else recall how after 9/11, when the news outlets started reporting anything they could find on al quaeda, that there was a growing cell in south america? i find it rather disturbing that no one - at least, not that i'm aware of - has done any follow up on this at all...

147 Iron Fist[deleted]  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:36:21pm
148 Roark wannabe  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:36:31pm

Aisha,

that is so typical of islamic thought. you can't even begin to discuss your religion without some form of disclaimer about the 'sins' of others. you have to learn two wrongs don't make a right no matter who tells you otherwise.

149 munchkin  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:36:56pm

Anyone here speak Russian or seen a translation of the movie Brat-2? (Brother part2). A movie worth watching just for the variety of weapons and ammo :) I wish that Canada wasn't so freakin anal about gun control. we have a gun registry that cost millions of dollars and is absolutely USELESS. I think I might join the university archery club. Any ideas?

150 theatrical homeschooler  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:37:59pm

A thought on Pres. Bush's Koran quote. I didn't hear that part of his speech, but maybe he's doing a bit of triangulation here.

He quotes the Koran so that 'moderate' Muslims will feel "he's not against all Muslims, just the terrorists," and they'll be less likely to oppose him.

How many billions of Muslims are there on the planet right now? I'd prefer to fight the terrorist branch instead of all of them at once. And, as a Christian, I'd prefer even more to free as many Muslims from the tyranny of Islam by leading them to a healthy, truth-based relationship with God.

151 KevinV  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:38:18pm

#146 - ninetails

Oh, I can assure you that USG is well-aware of activity in South America and is active against it. Rest assured.

152 pookleblinky  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:38:37pm

#149

I think I might join the university archery club. Any ideas?

Move to America, buy a gun, and laugh at Canada.

153 Kylaer  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:38:40pm

Everyone: Just so you know, Aisha is a fake troll. "She" is actually a he, who is also a regular poster here (I forget who, but I'm sure someone remembers).

154 munchkin  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:40:13pm

pookleblinky, one immigration was plenty for me, thanks. If I am forced to move, I'll move to Israel. much as I love the States, I'll stay in Canada for now.

155 Roark wannabe  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:40:18pm

i figured as much but i still like telling off even fake muslims.

156 realwest  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:40:20pm

CHARLES - on your next thread about the Protest Warriors, although it says 102 comments, I could only get 68; when I refreshed it went to 64. What's going on?

157 vickie  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:40:21pm

I said this about ten years ago...Jews are the only group that isnt GUNNED UP. Time to catch up with every other group. We have people here in the US NOW that are eventually going to go after us...Its really already happened...didnt seem to really bother anyone...MUCH...So if you dont want to end up without resources to protect your life..and your CHILDRENS LIFE...you better LEARN about Guns..make your choice and haul your ass to the store and buy what you need. Doesnt take all that much firepower..but it does take WILL to realize TIMES HAVE CHANGED...and prudent people have to change with it. WHen the threat is over...you can get rid of your firearm. THE END!

Incidently...I dont think Im gonna have to plead much about the subject anymore. Jews are quietly noting that they better get with the program. And this is kinda sad come to think of it. When Jews go out and arm themselves despite their aversion to Guns...its a sign that isnt good.

158 RedWhiteAndJew  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:40:43pm
159 realwest  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:43:26pm

CHARLES - also just noticed that NOTHING is coming up on the right side of the page.

160 cba  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:43:42pm

"Aisha" is a guy from Oz named David. IIRC, David is a lawyer (not certain about that).

161 gunslingah  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:44:46pm

#147 Iron Fist:

Interesting point. During my time in law enforcement, I've noticed a curious phenomenon: the big, tough guys, the guys who've been in serious fights, etc., aren't usually the ones who give you problems. I've arrested 6'6", 295-lb, 455-lb-bench-pressing monsters with criminal records the length of your arm... and they went along peacefully. The guys you actually have to watch out for are the little shrimp guys, the crazy little bastards with Napoleon complexes... for some reason, they always want to fight...

162 SkippyMoment  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:45:17pm

Aisha

First you populate this thread with instructions of how muslim are suppost to visit the yoohoo. Fitting considering this tread is addressing the crappy thing they did to this coptic christian family.

Now you are trying to deflect their actions saying "Violence is not confined to wherever Islam is."

I think you should go back to the discussion of how to correctly take a dump, cause your last post was pure bull sh*t. ;-)

Iron Fist, RebTex

I once fired a magnum 44. I was warned about the kickback (good thing too) which prevented me from having it burried in my forehead on the recoil. I wish they'd warned me about the kick on a 30/30... I damn near dislocated my shoulder and ended up flat on my a$$. My friends laughed so hard, they almost peed their pants. (some friends, huh).

163 abu_garcia  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:46:29pm

#20 Titus

Question - if worst really did come to worst, who here besides me would be willing to meet these jokers in the streets and defend our homes, even if means blood, ours or theirs?

There are so many down here in the South, and well armed, that I really don't think they'll try it here.

164 ibmkeyboard  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:47:05pm

Everyone: Just so you know, Aisha is a fake troll. "She" is actually a he, who is also a regular poster here (I forget who, but I'm sure someone remembers).
glad you let us know,
we were putting the guns in the truck,
and looking for a road map.

165 ploome hineni[deleted]  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:50:00pm
166 vickie  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:50:23pm

Do the Israelis make a all purpose..smallISH handgun for a woman to use? Its my understanding that you put specialized AMMO in a smaller handgun (that you can actually carry and USE) to make it a better weapon. ie the hollow point bullets...etc.

Id carry two..one where you are supposed to..and one in a very different place..like your ankle..maybe. Im new at this..DONT have a gun...but after the COPT incident..I THINK..I SHOULD.

Disclaimer: All Firearms should be bought legally with LEGAL Ammo..blah blah blah

167 MarkX  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:50:52pm

#45


ROTFLMAO

...and you owe me a new keyboard!

You are joking, right?

168 Iron Fist[deleted]  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:51:28pm
169 cba  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:52:16pm

David, too many people are taking Aisha seriously (even though you posted as Aisha using your own voice on this very thread.

I'm getting fed up with telling everyone not to take "her" seriously. Maybe you would consider adding /sarcasm (or some such) after "her" posts?

170 SkippyMoment  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:52:46pm

#145 ibmkeyboard

Aisha frequentyl posts to show the sheer idiocy of Islam. She is the alter ego of David, an attorney from Australia. Both are harmless, albeit annoy from time to time.

#161 gunslingah

the 'short man's complex' applies to more than just being a prick to arrest or subdue in a fight. They are a royal pain in the ass when you deal with them in the corporate jungle too. Always trying to knock the legs out of others so they can stand on the fallen bodies.

171 cba  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:54:24pm

#167 MarkX:
I wouldn't say "joking" as much as making a point with their own words.

"Aisha" is the creation of David (from Australia).

172 Former SSG  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:54:45pm

Iron Fist, whatever your prior problems with winning, I'd be glad to have that expertise with me in a fight!

173 Havoc  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:55:01pm

New Jersey hasn't executed a murderer since 1963. tho legally they could.

Who decides ? a New Jersey jury. They have 15 on Death Row. They do not have "Life without Parole" but maybe the legislature will get to it on this one. Legislatures are that way, Re-active not proactive.

If the perp's are apprehended, and convicted, let's just hope there is a good jury who get's to see all the photographs.

If the perp's aren't apprehended, I couldn't blame the family for going Charles Bronson.

It would be a terrible temptation.

174 HULUGU  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:56:17pm

bush actully mentioned the kkkoran in the inaug address--probably first time that pernicious document was uttered in that speech--i know he had to go multi cultural because of the occasion--but i got sick at the sound--kinda like a reference to "mein kamph"--hope it was just taqquiyya or kitman to the islamozoids--as the rest of the speech basically told them to watch their camels and their asses as we are coming to whoopass those who nurtured and coddled those who brought the fire to our shores--in the name of freedom

175 zulubaby  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 5:59:22pm

HULUGU,

i know he had to go multi cultural because of the occasion

He didn't have to do anything of the sort, and it was revolting. It's enough already with this pretense that Islam is a "religion of peace".

176 Iron Fist[deleted]  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 6:00:33pm
177 Havoc  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 6:01:23pm

Billy Bud:

That SP01 is a nice compact womanly design for a hand cannon. 5 chamber wheel gun, loaded to carry with the hammer on the empty chamber that gives her,... 4 shots ?

So is this the backup weapon, or is she only to use it up real close, just before the vampire bites?

178 SkippyMoment  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 6:02:27pm

#176 Iron Fist

Night Fist... guess you'll finally log off in about an hour or so ;-)

{{{Iron Fist}}}

179 ploome hineni[deleted]  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 6:02:34pm
180 zulubaby  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 6:06:04pm

ploome, it's the prettiest gun I've ever seen, so stylish.

181 RebTex  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 6:06:10pm

#166 Vickie
That's the beauty of the Chinese 9mm
It's built for the average Chinese man...
Who have hands the size of the average woman! hahahaha

182 ibmkeyboard  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 6:08:14pm

#179
beautiful weapon,
and naughty,
up to 125 yards.

183 ploome hineni[deleted]  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 6:10:43pm
184 Stop Hillary  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 6:11:42pm

#51 thinking mom -- "Thanks--gotta run now, but I would be interested in what knowledgeable LGFers would suggest for a beginner's firearm... ".

"Beginner" status is not so far removed from my own experience that I might be able to help you by approaching your question from the perspective of a beginner.

The first question is for you. Why do you want it, what are you looking to do? Be honest, if it's "self defense or just in case", acknowledge that. It's a perfectly reasonable and sane justification. If you have broader interests, the firearm you purchase may need to accomodate those interests as well -- if it can. Is your interest in rifle, shotgun, handgun?

Where you live and what laws govern your ownership and possession of firearms is also important. For example, if your state is a "concealed carry" state, your choice of handgun may be very much influenced by that fact, especially if you want to carry a concealed weapon. My state doesn't permit it, so my choice of my first handgun was made without regard to its weight or size.

Being honest, my first firearm purchase was a mistake. Not a horrible mistake by any means but if I knew more when I bought it, I'd have purchased something with more practical utility given where I live and where I can practice. I've wised up a bit since then.

Go to the NRA website, it's helpful. Folks here are helpful. Honestly, most of the info passed along that I've read here is sober and intelligent on this subject.

I can promise you this. If you start, you are likely to enjoy the challenge of becoming safe, knowledgeable and proficient, and soon you will take up an interest in a related shooting sport at some level as an adjunct to your practice, even if only modestly and with friends.

185 gunslingah  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 6:13:54pm

#168 Iron Fist:

You have a very impressive martial arts background. I've practiced a variety of styles (everything from Shotokan for 6+ years, to judo, boxing, and even white crane kung fu). I was a hand-to-hand combat instructor in the Army infantry, and am a certified "defensive tactics" instructor for my current agency. (Note: I personally consider the term "defensive tactics" to be an oxymoron).

My very favorite art, however, is the ancient and honorable rite of "gunjitsu."

Most gunfights take place at point blank range.

That's true; most firefights (especially involving cop/armed citizen versus predatory scumbag) do take place at very close range. (7 yards or less). However, I wouldn't depend on that to save my life. I've got pretty quick reflexes and a lot of training. I am very attuned to "watch the hands" for weapons, and I am paranoid about knives (because, having trained with knives, I know precisely what they can do--the carotid artery is less than 1/4 inch from the surface of the neck... need I say more...); therefore, if I were an opponent, you shouldn't count on getting the drop on me with a knife; if I even suspect someone is coming at me with a knife, I'll shoot 'em and explain later. I reiterate, don't bring a knife to a gunfight. I recommend to all law-abiding citizens: if you are legally authorized to carry a firearm--DO SO.

186 happycynic  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 6:15:50pm

thinking mom,

a lot of the better ranges will have beginner's classes, and will allow you to rent and try out different guns.

In Dallas, DFW Guns rents them for like 10 dollars a piece. Cheap way to see if you like the gun.

187 abu_garcia  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 6:16:10pm

#51 Thinkingmom

Thanks--gotta run now, but I would be interested in what knowledgeable LGFers would suggest for a beginner's firearm...

I think you should check out a Smith and Wesson 0.38 Detective's Special for a beginner's firearm. It's simple, rugged, compact, easily maintained, readily available used, cheap, easy to sell when you decide to upgrade and with hydro-shocks has a fair amount of stopping power.

It is a five shot revolver, and, as others have pointed out, that limits your shots, but the other benefits might outweigh. It is a close range weapon, but as a beginner I would imagine you're looking for something to fall back on if cornered. Gun shops or pawn shops usually have plenty of used ones, but get a knowlegable friend to see that you don't get a worn out one.

188 ploome hineni[deleted]  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 6:17:38pm
189 RebTex  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 6:24:09pm

In my ignorance...maybe even arrogance,
I didn't realize people in all states couldn't have firearms!
Man!
I feel sorry for ya'll!
Get to your Commissioners & Congressman & get it changed!
I couldn't imagine being without a firearm nearby.

190 Da_Beerfreak  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 6:28:21pm

#36 TM,
There is only one good definition of “Gun Control”, and that is “Hitting what you’re aiming at.”

#20 TQC,
Cout me in. I’m a long time activist for 2nd Amendment rights. NRA member.

Note: NJ is one of the worst states as far as 2nd Amendment rights are concerned.

191 hornet  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 6:36:09pm

This should be covered by CNN, with as much air time as they used for Monica Lewinsky and O J Simpson. Or have they mentioned this story at all? Don't let your bias show guys, or has MSM completely ignored this story for PC towards ROPMA.

192 Gringo  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 6:46:11pm

Thinkingmom - Invest in a good 12-ga. shotgun, automatic if you can, but pump is cheaper. Pound for pound, it's the best melee-range firearm you can own, IMHO, as it packs quite a punch and you barely even have to aim. Just be sure your spray arc is clear of good guys.

One thing to remember is that in most homes a shotgun is almost useless because you aren't far enough away from the perp. A shotgun load needs time to spread, which means distance; unless you're going to cutoff (shorten) the barrel, which will make it illegal. Better off to buy a handgun and learn to use it properly and well. Stay away from automatic weapons because unless you've had one hell of a lot of practice with it, the first bullet will go towards the perp and the rest in the ceiling, the kick drives the barrel upward.

193 Iron Fist[deleted]  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 6:48:36pm
194 Megan  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 6:51:51pm

Even if the murders weren't committed by Muslims (I think they were) Americans, especially the MSM and our politicians, need to take note of the hatred Muslims have for non-Muslims. But this won't happen. We wo't hear about it on ABC or CBS, or in the NYT or Star Ledger, or any other news program or newspaper. Our politicians won't say anything- from leftist democrats in blue states like NJ, to George Bush. Whoever the future governor of the People's Repbulic of Joisey will be, I'm afraid he won't mention Islamic immigration as a problem.

195 Stop Hillary  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 6:53:44pm

#189 Reb Tex -- "I didn't realize people in all states couldn't have firearms!"

That's probably an overstatement. I live in the independent socialist republic of New Jersey, only slightly worse than the independent principality of New York City (but I work there defenseless every day).

People can have firearms in these jurisdictions, it's just a question of how much regulation you have to deal with. In NJ you cannot purchase a firearm of any kind without first obtaining a Federal Firearms ID Card (you get fingerprinted, recorded and background checked -- yep, I can at least show a card as evidence of my sanity, how many politicians can do that?). You have to show the card with each purchase in addition to the NCCS check. You have to carry it too when you are transporting a firearm. Handguns require additional permits and they are registered with the State Police and Local Police. You can only transport a firearm to and from a range or to hunt. There are rules on how they must be stored in transit and, as to handguns, stored at home. You cannot transport a loaded firearm and ammo must be kept in a separate compartment in your vehicle (ie, firearm in trunk, ammo in glove compartment). Ammuniton loaded in a detached clip while in transport is the same as the firearm being "loaded". Watch where you drive and park, if you drive or park in a "firearm free zone" near a school, I think that's a felony.

We have our own "assault weapon ban". That will be chapter two. We have an in-force "smart weapons" law, even though there aren't any "smart weapons" invented -- that's Chapter 3.

Proposed: Politicians here are trying to take away all .50 cal and higher weapons. That means shotguns and civil war/revolutionary war originals and replicas. Laws are being proposed that would not allow firearms to pass through inheiritance and surviving spouses would be required to turn them into the police within three days of the death of the gun owning spouse or the police can enter and seize them. Better put that first into your funeral planning, mourning can wait.

The laws and regs are "traps for the unwary" and intended to be such. Virtually every Democrat in this State is out to ban guns and incarcerating lawabiding gun owners is part of their plan.

196 bad4nr  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 6:54:57pm

#122 Jackster

It was not random, because the murderers stabbed at the cross on the girl's wrist. These crosses were used to mark coptic childeren because it was common for muslims to steal coptic childeren to fatten their ranks. I have one of these tatoos and the wrist is not a good place to get it, very painfull!

197 gymnast  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 7:04:07pm

#195, Stop Hillery, Come on out to Idaho. Concealed carry permits come on the backs of raisen bran boxes and people are real friendly and polite. The requirement to buy a gun is the ability to pay for it.

198 Photios  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 7:04:56pm

Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus #20

Question - if worst really did come to worst, who here besides me would be willing to meet these jokers in the streets and defend our homes, even if means blood, ours or theirs?


I would. I am an expert with the Colt M1911A .45 cal. pistol and the M14 (medals for both). I have the training and the will.

Muslims have already asked the question, "Would you be willing to fight in your towns public squares?" thinking that most people would reflexively answer, "No". They are very wrong, I will not let them do to the U.S. what they have done to every culture that they have ever infected without a very serious fight.

+Photi

199 Stop Hillary  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 7:08:52pm

#194 Megan -- "Whoever the future governor of the People's Repbulic of Joisey will be, I'm afraid he won't mention Islamic immigration as a problem. "

What, not reading your Star Ledger? You bad citizen, it's off to the re-education camp with you. The Ledger has already virtually annointed our already appointed Governor Codey as next governor. The Ledger worked with the State Democrats to ease the way for Lautenberg to replace Toricelli as a "bait and switch" move at the last minute to disenfranchise every Republican in the State. They are daily greasing the skids for Codey with praise in their "news" articles that is so fulsome you will want to wretch. The Vatican will be announcing his sainthood next week if you were to read the Ledger's account of him. He's LLL to the core.

200 Aisha  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 7:14:38pm

W cited the Noble Qua'ran because he shares some Islamic values and there is hope for him yet.

You see, almighty Allah Ta'ala has created human beings in pairs, males and females. Every male and female by human nature is attracted to the forms, shapes and colour of the opposite sex. Except for fags and lezzos.

Similarly males (and lezzos) and females (and homos) are attracted to some outstanding feminine and masculine qualities respectively.

Attraction to the opposite sex has its positive factors, for example, marriage, procreation etc. as well as negative factors which includes every illicit and licentious relationship of incest, rape, masturbation, adultery, prostitution, etc, etc, etc. Human beings by nature are prone to commit evil, therefore the sensitive instinct of attraction has to be regulated by the perfect Divine Laws of Our Creator, Allah Ta'ala who is all knowing about the nature of mankind. The Quran and the Ahaadith are replete with orders that protect one from becoming a victim of the negative factors of attraction to the opposite sex, hence the institution of Hijaab for females,
the prohibition of talking to males with an alluring tone, the prohibition t apply perfume and exit the home, the prohibition for males and females to lower their gazes, etc.

Since human beings are prone to evil, they revolt against such laws that requires them to suppress their desires. In the prime stages of Islam, when Rasulullah (sallahu alayhi wa sallam) began reciting and propagating the Quran, which requires a believer to suppress one's desires and submit to the
Laws of Allah Ta'ala, a mushrik Nadr ibn Haris conspired to import foreign literature to Makkah Mukkaramah having unIslamic contents in them in order to impede the propagation of Islam.Almighty Allah Ta'ala has condemned such
literature. He says, 'And among men are those who purchase lahwal hadeeth (futile talks) which misleads from the path of Allah Ta'ala without knowledge, for them is a painful punishment.' (Luqman - verse 6). Even today, disbelievers propagate their culture and practices by publishing such
literature and circulating them as widely as possible.

The reason behind the conspiracy is that a human being is stealthy. Just as he is sensitive to the different seasons of the year, so too is he sensitive to people's character and conduct and can be influenced to assume and imitate other people's evil character and conduct. Such evil and immoral
behaviour then become his principles of life and govern every aspect of his life. Allah Ta'ala has pointed out the consequences of such literature as deviating one from the path of Allah. Such literature has the potential of actually depriving one of his Islamic values and morals (Maariful Quran vol.6). Allah Ta'ala mentions in the Quran - "Verily those people who love
to spread evil among the believers, for them is a painful punishment". (Noor-verse19)The different types of contemporary magazines, You, Personality, Scope etc. promotes the western culture of freedom and are
filled with every type of evil, swingers club, pornography, sex over the phone, contact numbers for prostitutes. Prostitutes might let you see their ankles. As for rent boyts, you just don't wanna go there! At least lezzos are useful around the house. Such literature also falls in the category of lahwal-hadees (futile talks) which deviates one from the straight path (you don't want to know what the homo literature will do). The negative factors in such magazines outweigh the possible positive factors in them, for example baking tips, etc. Such beneficial information could be made available through other avenues.

201 vickie  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 7:18:53pm

PH: Stunning gun..that black one. Well...lets face it..guns can be attractive looking. Think on that people. If you dont like Guns to start with... You can decide to collect Antique Guns..(which work) for the art of the Gun. I had a phony Derringer but I threw it away cause I thought Id forget and have it in a suitcase..get caught with it..and get in trouble. Im sorry I threw it away.

Md..is practically a no gun state.

202 fiery celt  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 7:19:19pm

Jihad in New Jersey

Hossam Armanious, his wife Amal Garas and their daughters, Monica (8) and Sylvia (15) were found murdered in their New Jersey home. The reason this family was so brutally murdered appears to be that they were outspoken critics of Islam.
The family was bound and tortured, before their throats were slit in accord with the instructions for executing nonbelievers, as detailed in the Koran: (47:4) "Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers, smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly [on them]."

They were Coptic Christians, an Egyptian sect of Christianity especially hated by Muslims for their refusal to convert to Islam... Hossam Armanious had received death threats from Muslims. According to a family friend, one of the threats read, "You'd better stop this bull, or we are going to track you down like a chicken and kill you.” Sylvia was especially brutalized, apparently due to the tattoo of a Coptic cross on her wrist. The girl’s throat was not only slit, but she was stabbed repeatedly in the chest and wrist where she bore the sign of her faith.

It remains to be seen how our news media will deal with this horrific slaying. Will this brutal and sensational crime receive as much coverage as the Laci Peterson murder?...an absolute media frenzy? Or, will this gruesome event be glossed over, whitewashed and quickly forgotten for reasons of political correctness?

When followers of “the religion of peace” hacked off Nick Berg’s head, it received nowhere near the coverage as the Kobe Bryant case. Social commentators and news analysts argued that the story must be played down to prevent stirring up hatred toward the Muslim community. Considering that only one act of violence against a Middle Easterner (mistaken for a Muslim) was performed in retribution for the outrageous murder of over three thousand Americans in the 9/11 attacks, I don’t think that outcome very likely. I think it far more likely that the suppression of coverage was due to fear of offending the Muslim community.

Well, I’m offended by the Muslim community that refuses to condemn such acts of violence. I’m offended by the Muslim community that tolerates the teaching of religious violence, anti-Semitism, anti-Christian bigotry and anti-Americanism in its religious schools. More than that, I am offended by the liberals in our culture who refuse to recognize this violent cancer in our midst that is literally killing us one person, one family and 3,000 persons at a time. I am offended by those who refuse to recognize evil, and demand tolerance from everyone but those who cut off people’s heads and fly planes into buildings. I am offended by those who blame the victims and celebrate the predators out of their own cowardice.

If, as it appears, this family was killed by Islamic terrorists in New Jersey, it must serve as an ear-splitting wake up call. Every American must be warned and reminded that the terrorists hide among us. The likes of Michael Moore, who claim, “There is no terrorist threat,” should be forced to view this atrocity. Those who think the prisoner abuses at Abu Graib were horrible human rights violations should by forced to view the body of an 8 year old girl, her hands bound and her throat slit by their Muslim darlings.

America - you reading this column - do not let this family die in vain! Let them be martyrs to their faith and our freedom. Let their deaths become the turning point, the moment when America finally awoke to the dangers of radical Islam and realized that the war on terror is here, on our soil, now. Do not return to life as normal. Do not let the media give Michael Jackson more coverage than this gruesome terrorist attack. Demand that his story

203 Stop Hillary  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 7:20:56pm

#197 gymnast -- "Stop Hillery, Come on out to Idaho."

Nothing is impossible. I am leaving NJ the first moment that I can fiscally do so, although for practical purposes a solid red state with concealed carry in the midatlantic region is more likely. For certain, I will only retire in a State that has concealed carry, whether I decide to carry or not. Old folks in NJ are being set up as plump pidgeons for the criminal element and I refuse to live out my senior years in any state that won't enforce and support my right to defend myself. A senior gentleman in Newark who for decades, through the riots and everything, ran a small grocery store recently shot a would be armed robber. The gentleman shot him with a handgun that was not registered. Guess who got prosecuted? That's the sort of bullshit going on here. It's pathetic and there is no Republican Party to turn to here. Unless you consider Arafat loving former "Republican" governor Christie Whitman a republican. I never did.

204 vickie  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 7:21:46pm

Reb Tex: I need something that is built for a Chinese or Japanese Guy...lolol...Little...practically no blow back..or whatever you all call it. No use getting something you cant handle. Next..develop the mindset to USE IT ...IF necessary. Thats hard. Seriously.

205 happycynic  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 7:25:38pm

Stop Hillary,

Might I suggest Virginia for a nice mid-atlantic state. Lots of good industry in No. VA and the state is one of the best in terms of the 2nd Amendment.

206 RebTex  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 7:29:14pm

Vickie
I think one of the other Texas posters has the perfect solution.
Go to a firing range & rent a weopon!
Try out a few & then decide if you're ready to take the plunge.

207 Rayra[deleted]  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 7:30:09pm
208 Stop Hillary  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 7:32:10pm

#205 Happycynic -- "Might I suggest Virginia for a nice mid-atlantic state. Lots of good industry in No. VA and the state is one of the best in terms of the 2nd Amendment. "

Truth be told, I have my eye on VA. Need to sell the spousal unit on it though. With any luck, some exposure to the Old Dominion will sell her without my having to say to much. I do have a plan.

209 RebTex  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 7:32:26pm

Stop Hillary
O>>M>>G>>!
I couldn't live that way!
Around here, there's a gun show every weekend.
Plenty of firearms to be had.
Maybe the gun restrictions there is what allows the crime rate to climb!
Ya'll REALLY need to get that changed!
And...
Shame on the man that tries to take my Momma's shotgun from me!

210 vickie  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 7:36:11pm

firey celt: The killing of the Copt group by Muslims ISNT going to be the turning point. Not enough Americans or Christians know enough or relate to Copts. When Muslims kill little blonde blue eyed Evangelical/Catholic/Protestant ..generic... Children..plus their nice Evangelical or Catholic or Protestant Mid American Family THAT will be the turning point. Its just how it works.

ME: Im horrified at just what happened. They are bringing this hatred RIGHT HERE...And the Govnt is going to do the same old, same old...Instead of putting its foot down...it will go into "these are just extremest Muslims...the rest are Peaceful" Mode.

I wonder if the powers that be in our Govnt think that America has LOST to Islam already and they are trying not to rile Islam up further..

211 RebTex  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 7:38:42pm

Vickie
On the note of being prepared to use it:
A person's conscience will govern that instant.
You'll know if it's right to use or not...after you're properly trained with it.
While it's true that you can't get the bullet back after you squeeze the trigger, there are circumstances when you won't want it back anyway!
Just be possitive your ready for whatever may come about.

212 Rayra[deleted]  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 7:39:33pm
213 fiery celt  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 7:46:02pm

The family was bound and tortured, before their throats were slit in accord with the instructions for executing nonbelievers, as detailed in the as detailed in the Koran: (47:4)
"Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers, smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly [on them]."

The Next World War Has Begun:

In this World War, which most of the West does not want to admit is happening, the totalitarians who want to conquer the world are Muslims, followers of the Islamic faith. In this, they are simply following the instructions, sacred ones, they believe, in the Koran, their Bible, which calls for the conversion or elimination of all "infidels". That means Jews, Christians, Buddhists and anyone else not a Muslim.

In New Jersey, USA, four people - a married couple and their two teenage daughters - were tied up and had their throats cut, so they would bleed to death slowly. It was done because the father had said something unflattering about Islam; the murderers were out to defend their "peaceful" religion and wreak revenge on these Christian "infidels". Unbelievable? Read the news story for yourself at http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/004690.php.

The police and the politicians, afraid for their own lives and those of their families, are trying to make it look like a robbery. Balderdash.This was a slaughter right out of the Koran, which calls for the conversion or execution of all "infidels". The motto - you are either a Muslim, or you are dead.

CAIR and the rest Muslim's whitewashers project the standard Religion of Peace bullsh*t, and that Islam is "misunderstood."
All the while knowing that these vile murderers had acted entirely in accordance with the Q'uran.

Then they 'kindly' offer members in the community to come and worship the demon god 'allah' during some highly touted 'interfaith' services...


Muslims only at religious unity conference:
JERSEY CITY, N.J. (AP) - It was billed as an interfaith unity event, aimed at defusing religious tensions following the slayings of an Egyptian Christian couple and their two children, but only Muslim leaders attended.

Coptic Leaders No-Shows At "Unity Meeting"
Muslim leaders called a news conference Wednesday to try to defuse religious tensions following the murders of an Egyptian Christian family, but Coptic Church officials, who were invited, did not attend.
Meanwhile, a Coptic church in New York issued a statement alleging the slayings were not being characterized as hate crimes because of "political correctness."

This crime against a Christian family because of their faith, happened here, in America--- and the New Jersey Authorities and the MSM are sweeping it under the rug. ...And they are getting away with it!.

the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you... If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you... (John 15:18-20)

Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. (Matthew 10:22-23)

This family are amongst the Martyrs under the altar,...They have been given white robes and have been told to wait until their number of their brethren have been fulfilled---

214 RebTex  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 7:48:59pm

Fiery Celt
What's your take on the marking of the right hand & forehead?

215 fiery celt  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 7:52:32pm

Copts: "The apparent reluctance to consider this a hate crime despite Jersey City's long history of Muslim extremism is concerning"

The St. Abraam's Coptic Orthodox Church in Woodbury, N.Y., issued a statement Wednesday cautioning against jumping to conclusions. But the statement also said "some signs point to this incident being a religiously motivated hate crime against Coptic Christians," and suggested that "political correctness" could keep it from being classified as such.

"The apparent reluctance to consider this a hate crime despite Jersey City's long history of Muslim extremism is concerning," the statement read.

A Jersey City neighborhood housed Muslims convicted in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, including blind sheik Omar Abdel-Rahman.

Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

216 happycynic  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 7:54:29pm

Stop Hillary,

Show her the picturesque parts of the state. Take her through Montichello (Jefferson's home) and UVA in Charlottesville, Mount Vernon, and Williamsburg. Women love all the beautiful scenery, and the guys get open carry, no license required. Concealed w/ permit.

217 gunslingah  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 8:06:51pm

Keerist, I wish these fucking animals would try to break into my house sometime. I could really use the entertainment...

218 fiery celt  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 8:11:27pm

RebTex;

Fiery Celt
What's your take on the marking of the right hand & forehead?

Its the forehead or inner wrist---

It's a familial/community identifier akin to a caste mark.

The "Mark" will be akin to a "brand" designation ownership...

The "Mark" will a part of the Economic system of the Beast ---

To partake of society, a person will have swear an oath or an allegiance to the authority of the Beast. ( The Beast being a person who will become indwelt by Satan and the Government of which he derives his power and authority)

The "Mark" will allow participation in society.
Without the "Mark" a person will not be able to buy or sell, or legally function within the economic system.

The "Mark" will initially start out as voluntary measures, for purposes of security and protection ( we are there now) and once power and authority is consolidated, it will become mandatory.

219 happycynic  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 8:11:37pm

gunslingah

My Mossberg agrees with you. He is just dying to try out some of the new reduced power tactical 00 buck I gave him last night. ;)

220 RebTex  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 8:17:51pm

Fiery Celt
Yup!
That's the same mark I'm thinking about.
I wonder why this arm of the Christians decided to place their identifier in those same areas.
Maybe to prevent any other mark from being applied?

221 vickie  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 8:22:28pm

Reb..I know what I know INTELLECTUALLY...and I know Ive got to overcome centuries upon centuries of training.. TO LIFE is our training.. Got to open our eyes, not bury our heads in the sand and come to grips with what is happening in the world now. Mindset and TO LIFE-- NOT DEATH training is hard to overcome but we MUST. When the threat is gone..then we can go back to our usual...Israelis are doing it..and WE in the Dispora can as well.

222 RebTex  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 8:24:44pm

Vickie
You may have hit the nail on the head with your previous post.
a STUN GUN!
They're fun & a little less lethal.
Might be easier to pack than a pistol, too!

223 happycynic  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 8:25:45pm

vickie,

Me and many of my Christian bretheren stand beside you in this. The infidels shall not prevail. We meant it when we said Never Again.

224 vickie  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 8:27:13pm

You all remember when Muslims shot up El Al and LAX and killed or tried to kill whole bunch of Jewish travelers and Israeli Employees? Remember that the FBI would NOT call this a Hate Crime. I think they FINALLY did..or maybe did..long time afterward. Well...same with the COPT Murders in NJ. Seems like they are trying to pretend that this isnt what it IS or possibly IS. Same damn thing.

225 SJKevin  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 8:38:28pm

#224 vickie:

You all remember when Muslims shot up El Al and LAX and killed or tried to kill whole bunch of Jewish travelers and Israeli Employees? Remember that the FBI would NOT call this a Hate Crime.

And the media wouldn't call it terrorism, either. It was disturbing.

Well...same with the COPT Murders in NJ.

I don't know; I think it's too soon to tell. I suspect this was jihad, but I'm in wait-and-see mode until we have more facts. Jumping to conclusions would be a mistake. When the facts become clearer and if this does turn out to be jihad, then we'll be able to judge society, law enforcement, and the media's reactions. Right now I think it's too early to reach any conclusions.

226 fiery celt  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 8:43:04pm

RebTex

Revelation 22: 3-4: "And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads."

I believe that the Copts my have taken the Mark of G0D upon themselves as good and faithful servants.

I am not a Coptic Christian, so I cannot being to know the full meaning behind this tatoo, other that it NOT being the Mark of the Beast.

227 Megan  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 8:45:14pm
You all remember when Muslims shot up El Al and LAX and killed or tried to kill whole bunch of Jewish travelers and Israeli Employees? Remember that the FBI would NOT call this a Hate Crime.

And the DC snipers- the media and authorities thought it was "a middle aged white male."

228 fiery celt  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 8:47:19pm
And the DC snipers- the media and authorities thought it was "a middle aged white male."

I heard the term lone White Christian Fundamentalist bandied about at the time by various pundits.

229 SJKevin  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 9:01:55pm
I heard the term lone White Christian Fundamentalist bandied about at the time by various pundits.

And the suitcase nuke (heaven forbid) will no doubt be blamed on Israel.

230 fiery celt  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 9:06:46pm

Pity Us...Poor, Poor Persecuted Muslims...

Jersey City Slaying Spurs New Wave Of Anti-Islam Bias

JERSEY CITY, N.J. -- The dirty looks and shouted slurs started in 1993 after Muslims living here helped plan the bombing of the World Trade Center. They intensified on Sept. 11, 2001, when Muslim hijackers brought down the twin towers just across the Hudson River.

Now a third wave of anti-Muslim sentiment is washing over New Jersey's second-largest city, sparked this time by reports that the murders of an Egyptian Christian man, his wife and two young daughters might have been carried out by Muslims angered over postings the man made in an Internet chat room.

The strife is particularly distressing in light of efforts the area's Muslim community made to reach out to other faiths and strengthen ties after the 9/11 attacks. Imams visited churches and synagogues. Joint prayer breakfasts and open houses were held. Muslim merchants visited the homes of their Christian and Jewish counterparts, and strongly denounced the terror attacks.

"We've been working for three years on getting Christians together with Muslims," said Mohamed Younes, president of the American Muslim Union. "Now much of that progress is gone. It is definitely going to be set back.
(...)

"We Muslims living in America are getting sick of this crap," he said. "Why should we have to apologize for or make a defense of something we had nothing to do with? There is no proof at all that Muslims had anything to do with this, yet we are taking the blame again. Is Islam on trial, or is a killer on trial?"

After the killings, Muslims tried anew to mend fences, but the results were mixed, at best. Several attended the family's funeral, but a New York cleric had to be escorted from the church hall for his own protection after a heckler started shouting at him. Mourners engaged in several scuffles before and after the funeral, including one in which about 35 people pushed, shoved and traded punches in the street as others yelled anti-Islam slogans.

A few days later, Muslim leaders called a press conference designed as an interfaith rally to try to calm religious tensions, but Christian groups who were invited did not attend, citing a religious holiday of their own. A similar interfaith event planned for this Sunday, which had been in the works for months, had to be postponed due to expected bad weather.

The killings have spread fear among Coptic Christians far beyond Jersey City. Relatives of the Armanious family in Egypt blamed the killings on violence in American society and weak interpersonal relationships in this country. On Long Island, N.Y., members of the St. Abraam's Coptic Orthodox Church in Woodbury said the killings appeared to be "a religiously motivated hate crime against Coptic Christians."
"A lot of families are feeling the fear and terror that comes along with something like this," said Maged Riad, a church member. "They got them in their home in the middle of the night. People want to know they can be safe in their own homes."

Father David Bebawy, a priest at St. George & St. Shenouda Coptic Orthodox Church here, in which the Armanious family was active, urged restraint.

Suzanne Loutfy, a Muslim leader of the Egyptian-American Group, asked people not to blame Islam if the killers are found to be Muslim.

"People are so willing to condemn an entire religion," she said. "That's what the big problem is. People commit crimes; religions don't. I hope we can be intelligent enough to separate those two."

These Murderers acted in accordance to The Q'uran and the tenets of Islam --- There is NO separation...

231 vickie  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 9:07:09pm

Look...suppose it doesn't turn out that THIS PARTICULAR incident is what it seems...doesnt matter..as you can see there are NUMEROUS examples of our Govnt either denying or covering up Muslim Religious violence. OR just sort of ignoring it. Remember the Orthodox Jewish boys in NY killed on the Bridge?..It was in the Newspapers and all...but somehow it DIDN'T become a big thing...This has to STOP people cause what we warned about..the spreading of this...first the Jews and next everyone else...is happening. ITS HAPPENING. We knew it would...

Thanks for everyones solidarity with us and believe me as Americans we are just as solid with you. We ARE the newest TRIBE...The American Tribe...I think that realization will come more and more to the front as time goes on. Yes..we have differences...but there is this thing about Liberty and Freedom and Fairness and the rest of the unique AMERICAN VALUES that we share and cleave to. There has never been a Country like ours..and all of us need to fight for it and I think we will.

232 Pennies for Patriots  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 10:57:33pm

Protecting the Lizards...

While we are exploring the topic of personal security, might I suggest that Charles give serious consideration to a few suggestions regarding the LGF interface.


1) Disable the poster profile query feature until it has a higher level of security.

2) Enhance the poster profile query feature so that only registered users may access it.

3) Permit registered users the ability to block queries of their posts.

4) Create a logging feature so that only registered users can see who has been running profiles on their posts.

5) Permit registered users to access the query history of other registered users.

Might I add that even paranoid people have enemies.

233 reader  Thu, Jan 20, 2005 11:26:45pm

Here we go. This is exactly the kind of media coverage I expected for the recent Coptic murders.
wnbc link As much as they loathe or distrust religion, the left can't resist preaching.

I've written to some journalists, asking why this is story doesn't even rate a mention in their papers. So far, nothing. Once again, Islam gets a pass, while every failed, and increasingly, useless equivalence is trotted out before the public, instead of allowing the facts to surface so that they may inform the story and allow it reach a more natural fruition. The back story, where the real motive can be found, and where true Islam lurks, is likely to be forever buried in an avalanche of such equivalences, layered upon accusations of mutual guilt and the unwritten suggestion that the audience should restrain from further inquiry, lest it be willing to risk the dreaded label of being intolerant, as if being intolerant and having your throat slit were mutually agreeable choices.

One question to our stupid media. Do you see such interfaith organizations over in Muslim nations, particularly within the Middle East, and if so, do they exercise and promote actual equality between faiths? The reason I ask is I don't see any religious freedom anywhere in that part of the world, not as far as non-Muslim faiths are concerned.

234 RayH  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 12:11:32am

Vickie
I saw a gun you might like the other day. A Bersa Firestorm.
You can get it in .380, small yes but you said you have small hands. And a .380 will kill. Not as powerfull as a .45 or a
.44 magnum but you want something you can use without hurting yourself. And it's the right size for concealed carry.
Also the price is right, less than $300. Check it out sometime.

235 Merovign  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 12:20:11am

#51 thinkingmom:

I second Iron Fist and Gunslingah in most details. I'll cover a tiny bit more detail here. The world of guncraft is much larger than anything we can discuss here. This is as short as I can make this post. I won't go much into mental preparation or legal issues.

1. Long guns. Home defense #1 is a 12-guage. Semi-autos have less recoil than pump-action models. Pump-actions are (slightly) more reliable and have other, less-relevant advantages. Wide variety of ammunition types - birdshot for apartments or condos, #1 buck for detached dwellings or countryside. The Mossberg safety switch is different from the other brands.

The 12-gauge is the most devastating legal short-range weapon we have. And a good one costs less than $250.

#2 for home defense is a better choice tactically but more expensive and politically incorrect. AR-15 carbine. .223 soft-points or hollow-points will actually penetrate less through common building materials than many handgun or shotgun rounds, are dramatically more effective at medium and long ranges, and can be had with magazines ranging from 10-100 rounds. Some people believe that the AK series (AK-47 and variants) are more reliable and/or durable than the AR. A good AR will cost you $1000. Shotguns are legal in more places and more politically correct.

2. Handguns. For carry or multi-purpose, large-caliber handgun. Simpler choice is a revolver, usually .357 magnum or .44 Special. 357 is more common and less expensive 38 special loads can be used for practice (do NOT use them for defense). Taurus 357s can be had with 7- and 8-round capacities (bulky). 44 specials are typically 5 round capacity. Revolvers jam less often than semi-autos, but when they jam they become clubs.

More complex choice is semi-auto. Large caliber, .45 is the most common choice. My preference is 10mm (not 40S&W) for a variety of reasons. Don't even look at 380. The cheapest you should look at is the Ruger P90. It's bulky but extremely durable. Glock, Sig, HK, Beretta, all OK. I guess Smiths are OK, but they're politically uneven. Good law-enforcement support, bad civilian support. Anyway, semi-autos malfunction more often than revolvers but are generally easier to clear. IMHO a good quality semi-auto is marginally more combat effective than a revolver. I do not own any revolvers, though I started my training with them.

Handle and shoot as many different guns as possible before settling down.

All that being said - a few more rules (and don't overlook these).

1. Accuracy is more important than caliber. A hit with a .22 does more damage than a miss with a 45. I'm a big fan of big calibers, but would choose an accurate 38 special over a crappy 45.

2. Budget for practice. Make sure you spend money on practice ammo and range time. Get professional training if possible. Get professional training if not possible.

3. I reccommend an airsoft "toy" version of whatever you decide to carry or at least a weapon with similar controls. Make sure you never practice with the real weapon in the room. Alwayws use a safe backstop - ANYONE can make a mistake. Make sure your mistakes are mistakes and not disasters.

When it comes to martial arts, I will defer to both Iron Fist and Gunslingah. My training is haphazard and while I have walked over a couple of decent martial artists (sparring - and barely) I am sure either of these fine gentlemen would hand me one of my internal organs in 30 seconds or less.

Speaking of internal organs, Iron Fist is quite correct - at short range, a blade is a horrifyingly effective and lethal weapon. It is good to know the basics of how to use one and have one nearby, as a backup preferably. If someone at short range threatens you with a knife, disable them any way you can as quickly as possible.

But I will say Gunslingah made one mistake. The first rule of a gunfight is to be somewhere else when it happens. If you screw that one up, THEN follow Gunslingahs rules. :)

236 Merovign  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 12:32:41am

You always forget something.

Per what RayH said, I don't care about killing. I'm interested in stopping. It is easier to kill than stop. A lot of people have been executed with 22s. I wouldn't want to try to stop a maniac at close range with one. You can end a life with a femoral artery shot, but that dude has a few minutes to carve his initials on your ribcage while he's dying.

Go with something effective. 9mm or better. If you need something small, get a small 9mm. If you need something smaller than that, find a better way to hide something bigger.

This is, of course, my humble opinion.

Stick to one action type if possible. Muscle memory or nervous system memory can do funny things when you're under stress. Most "gun people" suffer from the "one of each" syndrome and I am not immune. That's one thing I tell newbies - if I had it all to do over again, I'd go all Glock or all 1911 - not a mix of action types. Your hands will always know what to do.

Action type being revolver, double-action (Beretta, Sig, Smith, Ruger), single-action (1911, Kimber/Colt/Para-Ordnance), trigger safety (Glock, Walther, some Smiths).

Odds are, you'll never see a gunfight. If you do, odds are you'll never have to pick up someone else's gun and use it.

That's different if you're in law enforcement or military, obviously.

I do go on, don't I? :)

237 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 12:35:37am
238 Merovign  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 12:41:03am

There are too many things to cover on the psychological front to go into here. The summary is that you have to be willing to live when the risk is high and the consequences are dire.

You have to, because if we don't there is no future for any of us.

It is an uncomfortable thing, sometimes. But at the end of the day you have to know one thing that will help you make your decisions.

You don't always get to choose whether someone dies. Sometimes you only get to choose who.

And when you're faced with that decision, you will choose. And if you choose indecision, or surrender, then you've chosen yourself.

239 happycynic  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 12:51:23am

Merovign

No bird shot.

Try to use loads that meet the FBI requirements for 12' penetration and robust expansion.

For shotgun use REDUCED RECOIL 00 buck. If you use a semi-auto, be sure to know what loads are strong enough to cycle the action. If you are worried about thin walls, best bets are AR-15 and/or 9mm, not shotgun.

240 Cybrludite  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 1:20:56am

Titus,

Didn't see the thread until near the end of my shift, but I'm with you, and have some spares in case we need to equip refugees from New Jersey...

241 Spiritualized  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 1:23:45am

#110 reader

Places like slashdot.org, a geek site that is also one of the busiest sites on the web, occasionally has spillover discussion about Islam or Muslims. Most of the discussion never gets much past the standard LLL propaganda, with Muslims playing the eternal victim role under cruel occupation and oil greedy western usurpers (aka Bush).

That is exactly my experience in "neutral" forums. You usually get 2 or 3 Muslims and their supporters calling Israel a terrorist state or Ariel Sharon a "war criminal." The fabricated quote attributed to Sharon--"...we Jews control America" is taken as gospel. They've heard he's a right-wing "hardliner" so it must be true.

Or you get the average ignorant leftie explaining that Israel should stop occupying "Palestine"--that is the reason for terrorism. They usually have no idea what Arabs regard as being "Palestine" but they just hear the phrase and repeat it ad nauseam.

One of the best defences is to simply point out the wealth of terror attacks perpetrated by Muslims across the globe, such as those in Pakistan (Islamic terrorists blowing up Mosques etc.) and Buddhists being beheaded in Thailand. The Religion of Peace.com is a good reference, and for more detail on each attack just go to Google news.

242 Cybrludite  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 1:30:16am

#235 Merovign,

In addition to taking an accurate .38 over an inaccurate .45, I'd also add that not all areas & fashions are suitable for concealing a pistol in a "serious" caliber. A Kel-Tek .32 in your pocket when you need it is better than a Desert Eagle on the top shelf of your closet collecting dust. Now, if we're in an honest to Bob SHTF situation, then my .45 will be on my hip. However, I live deep in the South, and I'm not the sort to wear a suit on a daily basis. Even though I've got a fairly smallish .45, I still can't easily hide it in jeans & a t-shirt. My Kel-Tek I could hide while skyclad...

243 Jayce  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 1:56:15am

Craig Winn, compiler of Prophet of Doom, has written an article on the murder, the violence at the funeral, and the aftermath of another Muslim slaughter of Americans. He also examines MSM's coverup, company by company, and debunks the Iman interviewed by one reporter that this was not Islam.

The at the bottom of the thread are some of the most recently received, graphic death threats against Winn, Jews, Christians and soldiers in Iraq. While America Slept. Islam attacked.

Also, Rabbi Tovia Singer interviews the American Coptic Christian leader (Copts.com) today on Israel National Radio.com. They also discuss Copts under Islam in Egypt.

All of the above mentioned persons have no doubt that the murder of the Armanious family was a Quoran-inspired hate crime, not a robbery, - and a portent of the dangers to Americans if swept under the rug.

244 RayH  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 2:09:57am

Merovign
To my way of thinking a kill is a stop. We discuss ballistics all day and not agree. The only real anwer is for Vickie to find out what she is comfortable with and go with that. There a various people saying that a shotgun is the best defense in the home. True, but she may not be comfortable with that. As for any rifle which uses the .223, I wouldn't recommend that due to overpenetration and certain legal issues considering that is the main battle round for our troops. She might be charged just on the basis of that. Depends on her local police. Remember the Beltway Snipers were using a Busmaster firing the .223. Bad publicity considering most juries will be picked due to their ignorance.
I would still suggest a .380 for concealed or a .38 special is also small enough for many women. But depending on Vickie's size, it could be too big.
I took a lady friend out shooting. She stands all of 4'10 1/2" and 83 lbs dripping wet. It was her first lesson using a Taurus .38 which I had helped her acquire. She complained about how the recoil was hurting her wrists. I let her shoot my Dan Wesson
.22 which looks like something Dirty Harry would carry. She like that a lot better but could only fire it single action. Her hands were too small to fire it DA.
Next time I take her to the range I'll rent a .389 or a .22 semi-automatic for her to shoot.
I'm not disagreeing with you (except on the .223) but Vickie might be better with something smaller than a 9 MM.

245 RayH  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 2:12:49am

Pimf
Next I take her to the range I'll rent a .380

not a .389

Sorry

246 PBSi  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 2:32:16am

#20 Titus

Count me in. I refuse to become a dhimmi and if it comes to it I will fight to the death to keep the American way of life alive.

247 Ackomanyuki  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 2:32:59am

Everyone is packing or talking about it's merits and application. Good, we are making progress. It seems that even the 72 Virgins are concerned. It appears they have voted with their feet and hired security.

248 scorched earth 138  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 2:59:14am

For LGFers who are considering arming yourselves with fire arms for the first time, TAKE FIREARMS SAFTEY COURSES FIRST! If you aren't going to shoot weekly, stick to pump shotguns, lever action rifles in pistol calibers, and revolvers. Semi autos require more skill to use, immediate action drills should you have a jam, and are more prone to discharge if your weapon handling is lacking.
Understand to a T how your weapon loads, cycles ammunition and fires. We don't need anyone adding to the Sarah Brady anti-gun statistics board out there.

249 happycynic  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 3:14:10am

RayH

There has been some new information about the relative safety of the .223 indoors. It tends to fragment when it hits a wall, and thus any pieces which penetrate, being small, lose velocity (and thus wounding potential) fast. Get thee to [Link: www.ar15.com...] for a more complete discussion.

250 RayH  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 3:25:28am

happycynic

I'll do just that. Thanks.

251 Ackomanyuki  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 3:30:31am

#249

That may be a fine weapon for an entry team wearing armor who is clearing a nest of goblins. I sure wouldn't want anyones children taking a shard of a cupro-nickel jacket acroos their throat while sleeping. Listen to the advise of the poster above your post before everyone here begins to think a real-life game of Doom in a domicile is a good thing.

252 Earl  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 4:15:06am

Scroll through to one of reaganite's past posts on this subject. I'd say it was determinitive (and not because it coincides with my views). Any thoughts he might have on personal security should be treated as Gospel- after all, he earns his pay check by protecting POTUS.

#248 scorched's advice also is entirely sound, IMO.

As for 00 loads, I'd be concerned that an adverse inference of intent to kill, rather than a measured response in self-defence, would be drawn by the police/DA. Better to use No. 7s or 9s in enclosed spaces- plenty enough stopping power.

FWIW, YMMV

253 EE  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 4:45:53am

I hope the perpetrators of this brutal massacre of a family are found and given the punishment they deserve.

OT, except that this most recent Pipes website article involves two criminal cases, one involving a non-Muslim and one involving a Muslim, and it shows the very opposite stances of CAIR on these two cases.

The mentality of radical Islam includes several main components, of which one is muslim supremacism: A belief that believers alone should rule and otherwise enjoy an exalted status over non-Muslims. This outlook dominates the Islamist worldview as much in the streets of Paris as in the caves of Afghnistan.
Two recent American criminal cses highlight this attribute. Both involve the Council on American-Islamic Relations, a Saudi-funded group whose leadership sometimes announces its gola to Islamize America ("Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant.")

[Link: www.danielpipes.org...]
-- Radical Islam's Hypocrisy [: The Ehrgott & Okashah Cases], by Daniel Pipes

254 Mike Boelter  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 5:02:45am

differences that the Islamic lobby, with its disingenuous talk of “Arab Americans,” routinely glosses over and hopes you don’t notice.

That is the main problem that I have with the Islamics and the Hyphenated-American crowd.

We should be Americans. Americans of German descent like I am, or Americans of Middle Eastern descent, or of Chinese descent but Americans first and foremost.

One can also be an American who is also a Democrat, or a Republican or even a Socialist but the first requirement is to be an American.

In like manner we can be Americans of Catholic faith, or Jewish faith or of Islamic faith, but we must insist that folks be Americans if they want to live here.

If you want to be a hyphenated American of any type I suggest that you move yourself to the front half of your choice and leave America to the Americans.

255 Poitiers-Lepanto  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 5:02:51am

I am still confident that Police and FBI will find them.
When we are sure about the perpetrators , this terrible crime will have to be considered a turning point, the sign of a new strategy of the invaders inside America.

256 theheat  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 5:03:16am
"People are so willing to condemn an entire religion," she said. "That's what the big problem is. People commit crimes; religions don't. I hope we can be intelligent enough to separate those two."

No, we're a little slow to catch on, but we realize the religion and its followers either kill, condone killing, or don't seem to mind when others of their religion kill at all.

What's worse, they play the pity party card when people say, "Hey, I thought you guys we're okay. Facts prove otherwise. You're a bunch of assholes, and I want you gone."

I want them gone. If you appreciate antiquity, visit a fucking museum.

257 The Other Les  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 5:05:55am

# 124 Reb Tex

I'll stick to the 11.4 mm ACP.

258 thinkingmom  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 5:19:16am

Wow-thanks guys, for all the info overnight! I will pursue the gun education/safety area first. You all are a treasure trove of info.

259 metalship  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 5:24:49am

Sadly, the lesson from these murders is that Muslim killers will get a pass from the authorities and the media, and what happened in NJ is just the beginning I fear. Unbelievable.
Islam is a plague on our country, and ultimately the only thing that will save us is the expulsion of all Muslims. Why President Bush continues to spout that ROP crap is truly a mystery to me.
Can anyone explain it?

260 happycynic  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 5:29:33am

Ackomanyuki,

The fragements are smaller and less dangerous than the rather large, non-fragmenting single fragment of a handgun.

261 happycynic  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 5:31:37am

Earl,

Don't EVER point a gun at someone unless you are justified in killing them. "I had birdshot in it" will not be a defense. If you have to shoot someone, use something that will knock them down quick. Big risk that if using birdshot, you will just piss them off.

262 Roger  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 5:32:16am

#248 scorched earth 138, no immediate hard liquor and hand gun night?

Good recommendations.

263 Jocund Mavis  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 5:39:06am

...coming late to thread as usual...

#22, #39 et al

There is at least one msm scribbler out there who is starting to get it.

RTWT

264 sherlock_holmes  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 5:52:30am

These converts were actually practicing taqiyya, or religious deception, pretending to be friends of these Christians in order to strengthen themselves against them, as in Qur’an 3:28: “Let believers not make friends with infidels in preference to the faithful — he that does this has nothing to hope for from Allah — except in self-defense.”


Don't want to be ignorant - so would someone please tell
me the difference between the Qur'an and the Koran?

Also, what is a Copt?


This is a terrible story. RoP ? Yeah right!

265 daylight  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 5:52:59am

Just one point.

If you plan on carrying -

Realize that if and when the times comes that you have to actually use your weapon - USE IT!.

Or it will be taken - and used on you!

266 Bob with one O  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 5:54:27am

thinkinggmom,

Good Luck. Hope it hasn't been said but after narrowing your choices through research visit several different gunshops to get their perspectives. You'll see a common theme that will guide you.


Don't forget to get a dog for home defense. Criminals look for soft targets. I don't rely on my dog to defend me but to give me notice something's not right.

267 Roger  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 5:58:10am

#264 sherlock_holmes

difference between the Qur'an and the Koran?

One and the same.

Coptic :

1 : a member of the traditional Monophysite Christian church originating and centering in Egypt
2 : a member of a people descended from the ancient Egyptians
268 sherlock_holmes  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 6:00:26am

Thanks Roger.

269 vickie  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 6:30:47am

Guys..Definately copying all this info down. Ill make a list as well. The idea is to go into the Store and ask to see whats on the list -- ask for what they have that is the same or similar to whats on my list and then I can eliminate whats too big or too heavy or doesnt feel right to me. MUST be something I can actually use or else its a waste of time and money. (I already know Im not going to be able to haul a shotgun around even in the house..not in a million years)

AND the Stun Gun is a good idea as an extra. Does anyone know how much "stun power" the device has to be to actually stop a man and keep a man stopped for ..rather a significant amount of time? Time enough to get the F out of where I am and go somewhere and call the Police? I need this info anyway. No use buying a Stun Device that hardly stuns...or sort of stuns...I would say you need someone down on the floor for at least 5 minutes.

Far as I know..the people you need to train you to use a Firearm is the NRA. That is or was...the primary or one of their primary functions. Used to be anyway.

I betcha we have like 2 shooting ranges in my area. Md is a so..NO GUN state.

270 vickie  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 6:31:44am

Guys..Definately copying all this info down. Ill make a list as well. The idea is to go into the Store and ask to see whats on the list -- ask for what they have that is the same or similar to whats on my list and then I can eliminate whats too big or too heavy or doesnt feel right to me. MUST be something I can actually use or else its a waste of time and money. (I already know Im not going to be able to haul a shotgun around even in the house..not in a million years)

AND the Stun Gun is a good idea as an extra. Does anyone know how much "stun power" the device has to be to actually stop a man and keep a man stopped for ..rather a significant amount of time? Time enough to get the F out of where I am and go somewhere and call the Police? I need this info anyway. No use buying a Stun Device that hardly stuns...or sort of stuns...I would say you need someone down on the floor for at least 5 minutes.

Far as I know..the people you need to train you to use a Firearm is the NRA. That is or was...the primary or one of their primary functions. Used to be anyway.

I betcha we have like 2 shooting ranges in my area. Md is a so..NO GUN state.

271 vickie  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 6:34:07am

Sorry it did it twice. Computer is acting up.

272 Poitiers-Lepanto  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 7:12:36am

I had not read the discussion of the last night.

My two cents , just in case you are a late reader like me:

-revolvers don't need the cleaning and care required by semi-auto handguns, choose a revolver if this will your first experience with guns.

- safety :

NEVER point a gun towards a person (unless you WANT to kill that person)
A GUN IS ALWAYS LOADED (stick to this sentence)
A BULLET NEVER STOPS (STICK to this)

(Ask at a gun store for fragmentation bulletts that break when hit walls).

273 reader  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 8:50:11am

Marine Mamma #115,

I know you're largely right, but I don't quit. I still talk to strangers in the community and I still, though not nearly as much, write to journalists. I recently talked to some people, who then in turn took my information and are in the process of passing it onto hundreds, and potentially thousands of people, through their own community efforts. So keep in mind, you never know who it is you may be talking to. In the end, we're all connected, and by that I don't just mean to the internet. Since this happened to me, its buoyed my spirits. I now think there are many more people out there willing to take the initiative. I have things I'd like to change about the internet. I think we need better sites, ones that are more structured for education, but that's a whole other topic.

274 Merovign  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 9:09:30am

#239 happycynic

Prolly right. Replace birdshot with reduced recoil buckshot. Like he says though, and AR15 is better, although 4 times as expensive and not legal in all areas.

#244 RayH

As I said, a kill is a stop, but it may be too late to do you any good. I might also add that in court, if your intent is to stop, that looks like self-defense (and is). If your intent is to kill, that looks like homicide. It may also be justified, but it's going to drag on longer. If you shoot them 7 times with a 380 because they didn't stop, that might not look so good in court, and in addition you might not stop them until after you've been stabbed.

At the moment of decision, I really could care less if the assailant dies. I want them to stop before they can hurt me or my loved ones. Once that's accomplished, I'll worry about fatality. Heck, I'd rather the bad guy pee his pants, run to church, beg forgiveness and start a new life. Prolly won't happen, but it'd be easier for everyone.

The most important part is that you want the confrontation over quickly. It is true that in most cases the show of force solves the problem, and caliber is not as relevant. This is also where an AR-15 or a 12-gauge comes into its own - no one likes to look down those barrels.

Remember that a larger gun in the same caliber will have less recoil, and a polymer-frame gun will have less recoil. A .45 Glock 21 feels like a .22 when you shoot it.

Every test I've seen shows a .223 will penetrate less through common building materials than a 9mm because the round breaks up on impact (like frangible handgun rounds) and thus dumps its energy more quickly. Obviously it's better not to miss at all, in either case.

#261 happycynic

Apart from never wanting to test the "hit with birdshot and only pissed off" theory personally, I am in 100% agreement with this post.

#269 vickie

There are a lot of good NRA trainers and its a good place to start. If you have money coming out your ears you can hop on a plane and go to Front Sight or similar schools (google), and get pretty extensive training starting with the basics.

Find a good trainer in your area, and listen to them. They know your locals laws and law enforcement better than I do.

Maryland stinks, from CCW point of view. Poor widdle civilians can only get them with documented evidence of recent threats, and even then it's dicey. Worse than California, actually. Best of luck, though!

Stun guns - nothing that will fit in your pocket, as far as I know, will serve you well. 120,000 volts, baton-size. I'm not totally up on stun guns so maybe someone else will know brands, but you might want to check out police or security supply catalogs. Check for legality in your area. Invest in zip-ties if you're worried about the person getting up again.

Reactions to stun guns, like pepper spray, are kind of individual. I say kind of because small doses can be resisted by some. Depends on body chemistry and how much Kung Pao chicken you eat every day. :) Big doses are harder to resist. 10% OC Pepper spray and 120kv stun batons, for example.

#272 Poitiers-Lepanto

You should always learn how to handle and clear any weapon you will use. Revolvers do need cleaning, but are easier to clean than semi-autos. All guns are smelly, loud and dirty, no two ways about that. :)

1. All guns are always loaded. Never treat a gun like it is unloaded until disassembled.
2. Never let your muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy, keep it pointed in a safe direction on the range, at home, while unloading or loading.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on your target.
4. Be sure of your target. Know what it is, what is in line with it and what is behind it. You are responsible for your bullets when they leave your gun and they cannot be recalled once they are launched.

275 vickie  Fri, Jan 21, 2005 11:59:54am

Thanks all for the info..especially the amount of voltage you should look for in a Stun Gun.

Listen up...bout to make a pronostication again. Get your Stun Gun NOW if you intend to have one. Im hearing the beginnings of ...getting rid of Stun Guns..the...THEY KILL...They killed a baby...They are dangeous...They are being used to hurt innocent people...the CHILDREN...blah blah blah. When you START to hear that crap...then you can expect resitrictions all over the place soon.. next maybe registration..and ultimately...getting rid of em...


This entry has been archived.
Comments are closed.

^ back to top ^

log in
Name:
Pass:

Register Forgot Your Password? My Account Re-send Confirmation (To log in, cookies must be enabled in your browser!)

► LGF Headlines

  • Loading...

► Top 10 Comments

  • Loading...

► Bottom Comments

  • Loading...

► Recent Comments

  • Loading...

► Tools/Info

► LGF Hits

► Slideshows

► Resources

► Never Forget

► Statistics

► Tag Cloud

► Contact

You must have Javascript enabled to use the contact form.
Your email:

Subject:

Message:


Messages may be published in our weblog, unless you request otherwise.
Tech Note:
Using the Contact Form

► News/Opinion

  • Loading...

More Partners

Compare Electricity Prices in your area. Texas Electricity is deregulated; you have the right to choose Texas Electric Rates from among many Texas Electric Companies.

We don't feel like satan.

Follow Lizardoid on Twitter

 Frank says:

I figure the odds are fifty-fifty I just might have some thing to say.