the msm wouldn't know the truth if it hit them between the eyes.

Speaking of "journalists", it seems that Antonio Zerbiskis has the hots for "Juan Cole":

[Link: www.thestar.com...]

Dear Mr. Jordan,

Please remove thy cranium from thy anus.

Thank you,

Obi-wan

Let's not forget about Peter Arnett, who worked for Fox CNN.

"The truth? What it that?"

---Pontius Pilate

more bullshit.

[Link: www.moonbatmonitor.blog-city.com...]

OT, but speaking of MSM left-coast denizens

Californian advocates secession from the Union

My thoughts here.

Interesting...the Great Satan and Little Satan both seem to target journalists...meanwhile, as these 'journalists' are spewing the lies they are being spoonfed to ensure 'access' as Mr. Jordan put it after coming clean on CNN's reporting practices in Iraq pre-liberation, innocents are being shot, blown up, having their throats slit and anything else the ROP practitioners can think up that is tres barbarian...nice.

You know, in the fog of war, guys carrying big things on their shoulders (camera equipment) could look like someone with a RPG launcher or a light anti-tank weapon...Or the guy holding something on the end of long wire looks a lot like a detonator...

Gee...it's strange how all this killin' and death happens in a war

During one of the discussions about the number of journalists killed in the Iraq War, Eason Jordan asserted that he knew of 12 journalists who had not only been killed by US troops in Iraq, but they had in fact been targeted. He repeated the assertion a few times, which seemed to win favor in parts of the audience (the anti-US crowd) and cause great strain on others.

He had always seen the U.S. military as the providers of safety and rescue for all reporters.

Eason seemed to backpedal quickly, but his initial statements were backed by other members of the audience (one in particular who represented a worldwide journalist group). The ensuing debate was (for lack of better words) a real “sh—storm”. What intensified the problem was the fact that the session was a public forum being taped on camera, in front of an international crowd. The other looming shadow on what was going on was the presence of a U.S. Congressman and a U.S. Senator in the middle of some very serious accusations about the U.S. military.

yeah,
a bull shit storm.

More hyperbole from the treason riddled MSM. They go out in harm's way they get killed. Then blame our troops for it. Not that aren't some that they haven't wanted to kill, but that's not what is really happening.
This is just more LLL anti-american crap to try and discredit our guys over there. We're the big bad USA and everything is caused by us. If not for Bush, there would be world peace, no global warming, no famine and we'd all be holding hands and singing.

Charles , do not forget that odious cow, Christian Amanpour, also made the same accusations on CNN to Wolf Blitzer when some ordinance hit a hotel that Journalists were staying in...

This disgusting woman was calling for an immediate investigation into the US Armies conduct and even Wolf Blitzer kinda chuckled because as he pointed out, this was in the early heat of the battle in Bagdad and that her criticism wasn't really valid...

And people wonder why we hate the MSM?

Thanks

Is all staff at cnn as insane as Mr. Jordan appears to be?

The gasps of a dying Stalinist regime...

This may have been posted in the previous thread; Reuters' David Schlesinger went on a rant about this kind of thing a while ago: Reuters says its journalists in Iraq were killed by U.S. Army

My comments are:
1) Seeing as he's with Reuters, what he says is highly suspect.

2) If it's true, maybe Reuters brought it on themselves.

Oops, I meant here

What an awful, vicious, blatant lie.

How can that man stand to slander our troops like that? Has he no shame? Has he no conscience? I won't ask if he has any respect for the truth, because he works for CNN, but doesn't the man have even a spark of decency left in him at all?

This is simply appalling...and for a journalist to tell a Big Lie like this is just a black eye for American journalism, which was laready at an all-time low courtesy of CBS and the faked memos and today's Toy Prisoner incident..

Everyone reading this: NEVER watch CNN again. Ever. It's the least we can do in return.

Secession isn't all it's cracked up to be. Ask Atlanta. But I'd pay fifty bucks to watch a JDAM hit the San Francisco moonbat population, I mean rebel army.

C lueless

N itwits

N etwork

sensationalism at it's finest.

A soldier given the choice to shoot a person trying to assinate his character or someone trying to assinate the soldier which do you think he's going to focus upon? I could shoot the guy trying to put lead in my body or I can shoot the guy tryimg to shoot me with film. Tne war corespondite should have told CNN he was willing to replace Larry King for only 10K a year with no benifits or chosen another job, he / she always had the option to quit, last time I changed jobs I wasn't ever told that I'm eternally endebted to my new employer.

#13 bj 2/1/2005 06:52PM PST
Given Jordan's confession in the WSJ regarding CNN's reporting practices as i mentioned earlier, nothing that cretin has to say is of any credence nor can it be considered reliable...interesting how no one, given Jordan's confession, has questioned the 'reporting' coming out of the PA...all journalists know that in PA territories, you have to be escorted by a 'minder'...you have to hire them...and they take you to the stories they want you to report...

Could it be that the frontline access that the media clamored for after GWI is more than they bargained for? Even the BBC last March wrote about unprecedented front line access to embedded reporters in Iraq. At that time, it was noted that the foreign soldiers were the ones targeting journalists.

In Somalia in 1993, I was within 6 feet of Baghdad Pete Arnett, with a loaded M-16 in hand.
I was familiar with the bastard's work, from "destroying a village to save it" to the Saddamite propaganda he broadcast during the 1991 war. (The highlight of his loathesome career, the unspeakable "Tailwind" hoax, was yet to come.)
It never crossed my mind to shoot him. I did think of it later as a kind of sardonic joke (along the lines of "if we were as bad as these guys claimed...").

OT

Boots and Sabers has requested all of the questionable ballots that were cast in Wisconsin for examination.
If you would like to stay up on top of this voter fraud you can read the lastest there and at Badger Blog Alliance

I would STOP watching CNN, but I don't already.

It is said to see the MSM implode like this, since my parents were both journalists in the old, reliable tradition -- when opiion was only on the editorial pages.

PS I would also contribute $50 to send a JDAM to SF (if there were a way to warn the few conservatives there beforehand). Any chance of getting a fund together.

Look-- get off of CNN's case hear...

We all know by now that facts are not necessary or needed. In fact- as long as you WANT the story to be true-- all is cool. If you don't want it to be true-- you ignore it!

This is the way it works. Ask Dan--

Oh, and BTW, just because the hostage is a doll-- that daos not make the story inaccurate... after all- we did tell you he was stiff and lifeless...

/BBC agent 007

i thought we only killed journalists during the vietnam war.

and if i ever find out who missed rather and walter, out in the bush,
50 frigging pushups.

Now I understand why Christiane Amanpour uses a ton of kevlar hairspray.

#19

here's one:

F orget about

O bjective

X aminations

#8 ninetails 2/1/2005 06:51PM PST

the Great Satan

Some of us are Proud To Be The Great Satan! (a "pro-war anthem")

Eason Jordon, who doth be seen with Barnie Frank and Chris Dodd whilst taking thin cover behind David Gergan and hath become...what say ye... "suspect."

Doest thou think, mayhaps, he is agenda driven?

No! Varlet, get thee to the gaol! This is an honourable man; as are they all,... all honourable men.

A pox on thee and all that share thy pallet of shame!

Thus, spake the noble knower of tripe and trivia.

The Left Is Worth Nothing
By Dennis Prager

But to the Left in general, as opposed to individually good people who side with the Left, I have no apologies. It is the Left -- in America, in Europe and around the world -- that should do all the apologizing: to the men, women and children of Iraq and elsewhere for not coming to their support against those who would crush them.

That most Democratic Party leaders, union leaders, gay leaders, feminists, professors, editorial writers and news reporters have called for an American withdrawal and labeled this most moral of wars "immoral" is a permanent stain on their reputations.

About 60 percent of the Iraqi people went to vote despite the fact that every Iraqi voter risked his or her life and the lives of their children, whose throats the Islamic fascists threatened to slit. Yet, the Left continues to label the war for Iraqi democracy "immoral" while praising the tyrant of Cuba.

Leftists do so for the same reason they admired Ho Chi Minh and Mao Tse-tung and condemned American arms as the greatest threat to world peace during and after the Cold War. The Left "does not know the difference between good and evil." And that is why it is worth nothing.

30 toddhisattva 2/1/2005 07:02PM PST
damn straight

guess i should have used scare quotes...sorry 'bout that!

US Soldiers targeting cubo MSM Leftoid media monkeys...never happened, just a figment of their psychotic minds..but i wish it was true

CNN..? Used to watch it until it became the american affiliate and whipping boy for Al-Jizz

Blitzer,Amanpour and the rest of the crew... budding Benedict Arnolds and mouthpieces for the jihadists...

More importantly, what kind of value does the MSM represent for the left?

Read The Value of Media Bias

Sounds like we need to target more often and shoot with more precision. It would cut down on the accusations.

(;^(l /malevolence building

I remember an article I wrote for my high school newspaper--I tried to put my own spin on it--being disgusted about the topic. I knew it was wrong, but I did it. I presented the facts, only the facts in a sarcastic way.

The point here being that at 17, I KNEW IT WAS WRONG. I chalk it up to teenage immaturity. Stupid mistake and 20 some years later, I still feel bad about it. What excuse to the adult, college-educated reporters have?

Oh, I forgot, they are selling ads.

Yet somehow we military folk allow people like Dan Rather and Peter Jennings to live. You would think they'd be first to die.

Many of these self-important little twits have a deeply buried martyr complex. Eason - (a$$wipe) - would seem to desperately want to be known as someone who might be killed for "seeking the truth". He and his comrades are doing dangerous work, don't you know.

Go pi$$ up a rope!

Sorry Eason - we just want you to shut up and go away.

Prediction:

Eventually, this will render to incidents where cameramen where hit during combat, mostly because a Shoulder-Camera looks like a RPG from 200 yards...or the reporters were with the badguys, etc.

War is Hell for a reason.

Thats a blood libel against the American Military, the person should be sued.

If there is any justice in the world, Eason Jordan should be next.

If you are out to describe truth, leave elegance to the tailor.

A. Einstein

This is special:

Clinton named UN tsunami co-ordinator

UNITED NATIONS - Former U.S. president Bill Clinton Tuesday was named co-ordinator of the United Nation's tsunami reconstruction efforts.

The 58-year-old Clinton said he would start work as UN Secretary General Kofi Annan's special envoy next month.

In a statement, Annan said he was confident Clinton "will bring energy, dynamism and focus to the task of sustaining world interest in the vital recovery and reconstruction phase."

And somehow the tsunami relief effort includes:

Along with managing reconstruction in the 11 countries affected by the Dec. 26 tsunami, Annan wants Clinton to work with warring rebel groups in Indonesia and Sri Lanka, said UN spokesperson Fred Eckhard.

What a joke.

slightly OT

for news Afghan style...

[Link: www.aim.org...]

I haven't watched CNN since 1997 (about the time Fox came to my cable lineup; ironic, isn't it?!). I haven't read the LA Times since 1991 after graduating from UCLA. What was this news distorter whining about again?!

My step brother was in the Marines and spent 18 months in the Kosovo area, he went thru hell trying to get out after his 4 years were up and tried to attend college only to get called back to LaJune again, while Clinton was still in office, and sent back again. He loves those he's served with and loves the corps but it's now behind him. When he talks about what he saw over there he tells me the media lied to us, the Marines went over there with honorable intentions, fulfilled the honor in their mission. But still breaks down when he thinks about when his group was assigned to an area where they found a group of muslim boys gigling over a dead girls body. It , as he told me, was covered with cum after these muslim boys had raped her, beat her to death and then jacked off over her. He wanted to empty his rifle into them but his superior held him and the group back. I find it hard to believe that peporters are the targets of soldiers agression when they are subdued under more extreme circumstances.

29 ovulating aborigine

Are you here make a point and defend it, or are you just going to do your normal seagull routine of fly-in, drop a load of shit, then fly-away?

Darth Vader,

the voice of CNN,

makes sense now.

The only way to settle this is to call the MSM's bluff. Immediately order all journalists out of Iraq. Then open an enquiry.

#33 ninetails 2/1/2005 07:04PM PST

guess i should have used scare quotes...sorry 'bout that!

Dude, I totally missed that. I've got a reflex, whenever someone says "Great Satan" I post a link to my friendses's song. Sometimes I post a lot of links to a lot of their songs.

Let's see...

CNN wants to be in on the action but doesn't want to get hurt.

CNN reporters want to hang with the "head choppers", but not get hurt.

CNN viewers (what little there are) are a bunch of LLLs and they want to see the war going badly for our side. (and of course, CNN delivers that up on a silver platter)

I say too bad. You play with fire, you'll get burned. You root for our enemy and hang with the "head choppers", you will be indistguishable from our enemy. "Head choppers" hide behind the skirts of the women and they probably hide behind the cameras of the press. In that scenario, I say, "good huntin' boys."

50 BG

Now you know that will defeat the purpose. This is just supposed to be an oblique, unsupported allegation against U.S. military that everyone "knows" is true...

#50 Bubble Girl

Could you email me please? You don't have your email in your nic, or I would email you!

Tanker

Maybe... Nope, time to put the big foot down, if they are going to make scurrilous charges against our military while our men and women are putting their lives on the line, then screw em, order them out. Make like Mexico. Pack up, you got twenty minutes... Yeah, I love it already...

The current leftist creed:

You know, if all wars in the world were ended today;
And if all violence were ended in the world today;
And if all poverty were ended in the world today;
And if all hunger was ended in the world today;
And if all diseases were ended in the world today;
And if all environmental degradation was ended today;
And if all attempts to undermine peace and harmony
throughout the world were ended today:

George Bush would still be President.
SO WHY END THEM?

SarahD

Done :)

51 toddhisattva 2/1/2005 07:27PM PST
No sweat.

55 Bubbles

no, I agree. I was spoutin' the moonbat line.

Jordan's comments should be prosecuted; it's beyond the pale and demonstrably false.

But Charles, unless I misread Cramer's remarks in the link, he seems to be referring to "governments" aka the lovely folks in Sudan/Darfur, Indonesia, Ukraine, Russia, China, and other garden spots who DO kill journalists.

Look, guys like Jordan are toad-spit, no one should think otherwise, but there ARE real journalists (not Hersh or Scheer, but folks like Veronica Guerin, Georgiy Gongadze) who gave their lives to get truth out to people.

They should be respected, and remembered.

Guerin was murdered by Irish druglords after refusing to back down from stories linking the druglords to corrupt Gardai (Irish Police) and Ministers. Gongadze was murdered on orders of Ukrainian President Kuchma, for looking into some of his corrupt deals and ties to mobsters.

The CNN bunch are not fit to be mentioned in the same sentence. There are good people out there, we shouldn't forget that.

OT, Michael Jackson's ex, Debbie Rowe, is going to be the star witness in his molestation trial...this ought to be interesting.

60 Jim Rockford 2/1/2005 07:46PM PST
There probably are a few, but, can you name them?

#7 Protagonist

Californian advocates secession from the Union

Who need secession when you can have reconquista?

Who Watches...

LOL! They can have Texas when they pry if from my cold dead...um... you know what I mean.

Sounds like Cramer has been chugging BlahBlahBlah...

Tanker

no, I agree. I was spoutin' the moonbat line.

Dangerous, Tanker, dangerous... LOL

OT

Black Days at Black Rock

nside CBS News, the rage over the handling of the National Guard fiasco only deepens. And does Les Moonves really have a plan for replacing Dan Rather?

Awww, pooor Dan. I feel for him.

/Not

#7 Protaganist

From your link:

Maybe it could be an example to its new next-door neighbor, the U.S., if we free ourselves from a system that gives South Dakota as many senators as we have.

Wait till he figures out he'll need a passport to drive to Oregon.
To say nothing of cross-border water rights.

OT

Read a snippet from the Rocky Mountain News, where the story now going around about Rather is this...

Rather was overworked, he had just covered a hurricane, and some other stories and hadn't even had time to read the story before he went on air... So the word is, Rather was exhausted from working so hard he didn't have time to assess the Bush Air National Guard story... fatigue and stress..

Oh, this is rich:

Some at CBS remain particularly upset by Rather’s conduct, both before and after the story aired. The anchorman lent his enormous credibility to the story, and seemed to have pushed his normally sharp reportorial instincts aside to get it on the air. The vague public statement from Rather that followed the commission’s findings failed to contain any apology, and he has continued to defend the piece despite ample reason to doubt it.

Much has been made of Rather’s failure to see the piece before it aired, but that fact isn’t very meaningful; he’d read multiple drafts of the script for the story (written by producer Mapes), done most of the interviews, and had a thorough knowledge of the story’s content and point of view. He was hardly the uninformed mouthpiece portrayed in the media.

70 bG

The lib press apologizing for the king of the lib press...

What else to expect?

BubbleGirl

Rather was overworked, he had just covered a hurricane, and some other stories and hadn't even had time to read the story before he went on air...

I call bullshit. He asked Heyward to cover his ass before it aired and he said so publicly.

“The producer lied,” one longtime Rather producer told me in an unsolicited, not-for-attribution e-mail, angry that other innocent people had been wrongly punished for Mapes’s transgressions. But the commission’s report showed that it was the considerable power of Rather—in addition to Mapes—that helped lead Howard, West, and others to trust the reporting on the National Guard story in ways they now must deeply regret.

Do you all think that Dan regrets it? I doubt it.

#70 Bubble girl,

Hey thunder dan is what 145 years old?

I am sure after his morning vacating of the "knowledge chamber" he is just about too plumb tuckered out to do more than barely read...

Has anyone noticed that most of the action pics of the war are set within feet of terrorists firing their weapons? Newsweek is full of them this week. They also seem to know where and when a bomb is going to go off. Its a reasonable assumption to think that in the pics they are firing their weapons at Americans. How are journalists able to get these shots? I think the logical conclusion is that those taking the pictures are trusted by and are sympathetic to the cause and are willing to take measures to help that cause beyond mere propaganda. If your going to purposely position yourself next to a man firing a weapon at me, perpare to be shot. Aid and comfort to the enemy has been a crime punishable by death since human civilization began.

Contact CNN!
This link is for giving them hot news tips.
Here is what I wrote:

Here is a hot news tip for you!

Speaking at the World Economic Forum, Eason Jordan repeatedly alleged that US troops in Iraq targeted and killed 12 journalists. This is an explosive story and you should follow it up as to whether it is true or false.

If true, this would make an excellent scoop for CNN, perhaps even a headline? If it is false and Mr. Jordan is irresponsibly passing on unsubstantiated rumours for public consumption, I await your report on this important story regarding the Chief News Executive of CNN.

64 Rayra

If she follows her MO, then she'll come back at..oh about 4:00am ET to drop another turd.

I went back through her comments and there was a link to a pathetic little film clip that exposed to the world that ..horrors... the US had supported Saddam in his war against Iran, so in effect, we created the monster! blahblahblahblah.

Noshitsherlock. Next I'm guessing we'll find out from her that..horrors...the US supported Stalin against the Germs.

#40

"War is hell for a reason."

From a long ago MASH episode when, in the OR, someone remarked "Well, war is hell.":

Hawkeye: I beg to differ. War is war and hell is hell and of the
two, war is by far the worst.

Father Mulcahy: How do you figure, Hawkeye?

Hawkeye: Well, Father, who goes to hell?

Father Mulcahy: Sinners, I believe.

Hawkeye: Right, Father. In hell there are no innocent
bystanders.

Well, of course, the Rather was so overworked and overtired he had no idea the story was pure bullshit. CYA CYA CYA and I think BS BS BS BS...

OT

I know that someone posted about the Pope earlier, but this seems more serious.

Pope Rushed to Hospital with Breathing Problems

Of course, it IS Reuters.

Colored smoke time soon?

SarahD #81

Colored smoke time soon?

LOL

Which color is for what? I'm lapsed-almost excommunicated-Catholic, can't remember any of that stuff...

Heck, I can't either. I'll ask the kiddo in the morning. I'm sure she's learning that at school. She's the one that told me that he was sick.

_{[She thinks I'm a total boob for not knowing about it]}

Darth Vader as the voice of CNN was what they call a clue, son.

#82 Bubble Girl,

They send smoke signals to communicate whether or not there is a new pope...

I still remember when John Paul 2 got the ten gallon beanie...

It is true -- CNN's people are targets, and they go to great lengths to stay safe. Wolf Blitzer is really a woman, and has 4 hours of makeup before each broadcast to avoid being targeted.

#85 PIMF...

white is for "we found the next one"...

#85 sven10077

What colors for what though? I can't remember and I'm too tired to google it!

Black for no pope.

White for a new pope.

I make my living off the evening news
Just give me something-something I can use
People love it when you lose,
They love dirty laundry

Well, I coulda been an actor, but I wound up here
I just have to look good, I don’t have to be clear
Come and whisper in my ear
Give us dirty laundry

Kick ’em when they’re up
Kick ’em when they’re down
Kick ’em when they’re up
Kick ’em when they’re down
Kick ’em when they’re up
Kick ’em when they’re down
Kick ’em when they’re up
Kick ’em all around

We got the bubble-headed-bleach-blonde who
Comes on at five
She can tell you ’bout the plane crash with a gleam
In her eye
It’s interesting when people die-
Give us dirty laundry

Can we film the operation?
Is the head dead yet?
You know, the boys in the newsroom got a
Running bet
Get the widow on the set!
We need dirty laundry

You don’t really need to find out what’s going on
You don’t really want to know just how far it’s gone
Just leave well enough alone
Eat your dirty laundry

Kick ’em when they’re up
Kick ’em when they’re down
Kick ’em when they’re up
Kick ’em when they’re down

Kick ’em when they’re up
Kick ’em when they’re down
Kick ’em when they’re stiff
Kick ’em all around

Dirty little secrets
Dirty little lies
We got our dirty little fingers in everybody’s pie
We love to cut you down to size
We love dirty laundry

We can do the innuendo
We can dance and sing
When it’s said and done we haven’t told you a thing
We all know that crap is king
Give us dirty laundry!

#89 Pierre, yeah that's it...

black was 'the vote was too close to call'...

white means "even Kerry sees the need to concede"...

Sven

But don't they have different colors? One for each designation?

he's dying
he's almost dead
dead
we've got a new one

#89 Pierre Duhem

Stupid question, and I should know the answer...when have the NOT found a new pope?

Or are they just sending up 15 minute updates while they figure it out?

#92 BG,

er uh maybe you have it confused with the "color alert" system...

I don't remember a rainbow of smoke signals...let me look into it.

smoke? smoke? they use smoke? I thought that was incense?

Seriously, I feel for the old pope. I hope his suffering ends soon--living in a parkinson's ravished body is a hell of it's own kind. I know they are making him as comfortable as possible. Will be sorry to see him go, he is a nice pope.

I still can't figure out why the Pople can't get married if he's in the seat of Peter who was married. Anybody know?

[Link: parslow.com...]

(a joke site)

Knock Three Times
When the Pope dies, the officials that were part of the papal administration no longer rule. The governing of the Vatican is taken over by the Camerlengo of the Holy Roman Church, or Chamberlain of the church. The camerlengo supervises all aspects of what goes on from the the death of the pope to the election of the next pope. His responsibilities include the papal funeral and preparations for the conclave.

The camerlengo's first duty is to perform a medieval ritual. At the deathbed of the pope the camerlengo takes a silver hammer and lightly taps on the pope's forehead three times, calling him by his Christian name. When there is no reply, he announces to those present that the pope is dead. The camerlengo also removes the Fisherman's Ring from the Pope's finger. At the first meeting of the Sacred College the ring and papal seals are broken.

Holy Smokes!
Is that black smoke coming from the Sistine Chapel at the Vatican? One of the most famous traditions of the papal succession ritual is the appearance of smoke from the chimney of the conclave room. The eligible cardinals conduct a secret ballot until someone receives a vote of two-thirds plus one. The ballots are burned after each vote. Black smoke (straw is mixed with the ballots) indicates a failed ballot, white smoke means a new pope has been elected. Since the cardinals meet in isolation, it's the only way to inform the public about the proceedings.

During the coronation of a new Pope, flax is burned and the words Sic transit gloria mundi, "Thus passes the glory of the world," are recited. It's meant to represent the temporary nature of earthly glory. Popes come and go, but the papacy, one of the world's enduring institutions, continues to provide spiritual guidance to over a billion Catholics.

[Link: italian.about.com...]

(not a joke site)

The simple black means no supermajority was met, white means the fisherman's ring is on a new finger...

I am a lapsed Catholic too...find myself more an Anglican these days as much as a Catholic.

What? Is this a Pope Terror Alert System? I don't get it...

/sarc off

parson --has to do with some middle ages ruling. You know, we Catholics like to change the truth in respect to the rules. Popes could get married at some point, then they changed it. I understand that at one time it was Ok to eat fish on fridays during Lent as well.

You know, we Catholics pretty much do what we want anyway--after the priests being married rule--they just had mistresses--or alter boys-depending on the century.

#96, It was a VERY cynical move made in line with the assumption of a celibate clergy to prevent the survivors of a priest, bishop, et al from having claims on Church property.

I feel they should abolish the celibacy rules...

makes me a minority.

ggt

LOL

#93 Sarah D.

Stupid question, and I should know the answer...when have the NOT found a new pope?

As they reduce the number of candidates with each ballot a dark smoke signal goes up. Though it's a lifetime appointment with a special hotline, the procedure is very democratic.
There have been antipopes. The procedure used to fail to select one Pope on occasion. An antipope is another claimant to the Papal throne.

You can't watch the RCC without a Pope Chart.

the parson --glad to cause a smile!

#99 ggt

You know, we Catholics pretty much do what we want anyway-

Yep, sure do. I once ate candy all through Lent, and meat every Friday, and ran with scissors... bad Catholic, bad, bad Catholic girl!

I learned this week where the phrase Devils Advocate came from. Very interesting.

beagle--wow, 2/3 majority to get elected pope. Tough race. Bet there isn't a 2-party system at the Vatican.

I hear al-jazeera is up for sale. maybe cnn will come out of the closet and admit it owns that bastard news media and they can go 'embed' each other all they want. cnn, after all, has the taste of its owner .. the biggest foul mouthed idiot bigot of all time .. t. turner has-been-husband of hanoi jane. What a groupie that is. Yeicht!

#104 BG,

How bad?

*wink j/k*

We used to take the girls who went to the Catholic school and play checkers on their skirts in elementary...

bubblegirl: Now, was the running with scissors a Mortal or Cardinal sin?

#106 ,

well even higher actually it is 2/3ds plus 1...

anytime I hear some doom'n'gloomer bagging on US politics I think of how easy we have had it compared to say the Borgia era Church...

#108 Sven

We used to take the girls who went to the Catholic school and play checkers on their skirts in elementary...

And we used to stomp the boy's asses in dodge ball...

#11 BG,

Touche...

I never could nail a er uh that was coming out wrong...

I never took glee in striking a female with a red round...um

*blush*

Now you know part of why you guys won.

*big smile*

THE BORGIA'S, oohh, sven, never ever ever mention THE BORGIA'S a/k/a the Pope's That Shall Not Be Named. Very bad juju.

#109 ggt

bubblegirl: Now, was the running with scissors a Mortal or Cardinal sin?

I thought it was Cardinal and Venial... or is it Venal?

Depends, if you just run with scissors, or if you run after someone and stab them to death with them... There, there is your difference, one, Cardinal, one, Mortal..

113 GT,

Yeah that is another source of grief I have.

There are times I have severe problems with the games the Church plays with its own narrative.

I'll bet the borgias would have already taken care of OBL though.

bubblegirl--in MY Detroit-Area Catholic school is was Mortal and Cardinal --although I've heard of Veneal (sp?) sins. I never knew exactly what they were. I probably associated them with VD. Actually, jokes associating them with VD were probably why they were never mentioned.

#114 BG

Well, if you are running with scissors, and you fell, I suppose it could be Venal or Arterial...

I think the 'You Know Who's' would have been the BIN LADEN'S. I often wonder if J. Edgar would have allowed OBL?

Uh, I think that the papal BS (please Lord forgive me) started with giving the monk "movement" a place in the church of Christ. Monks had no need for women...and this trickled down to our poor priests today.

I would give you better quotes, but I loaned my Catholic history books to my Episcopalian deacon of a Dad.

It's not a good thing, and it isn't proscribed in the Bible.

[Link: people.uvawise.edu...]

St Tommy Aquinas on the matter.

A flow chart...

. What are the types of actual sin?

~ Mortal: a serious offence against God that kills the soul and deserves hell

~ Venial: weakens the soul and displeases God (often leading to mortal sin)

Notice the nuance...

In reality the concept speaks to the notion of the three tiered afterlife I prefer...

I think we lost something when purgatory was forced underground.

#117 ChrisTheProf

Hiya Chris!

Well, if you are running with scissors, and you fell, I suppose it could be Venal or Arterial...

LOL, or like a BB gun, it could put your eye out.

ggt,

Venal means greedy.

#118 GGT,

TYKW's(the you know whos) would have been OUR OBLs in this fight.

One thing you can't take from them was that they were ruthless enough for all of us.

*smile*

I sometimes wonder what the Muslim world would do if we REALLY went hard option on them...

Sven

There is no nuance -

one kind sends you straight to hell, the other, on the road to Hell, last stop, Purgatory...

Wouldn't you know it, just when a good Catholic "discussion" thread get's going --I have a lot to say on this issue -- I have to go. The dogs want to go outside --which I would prefer to them going inside. Then, I should probably put myself to bed. good night all!

#121 BG

Hiya, Bubbles.

Interesting that this thread kinda morphed into a discussion of Catholocism. While a couple of y'all described yourselves as "lapsed" Catholics, I tend to describe myself as a "cafeteria" Catholic, picking and choosing those tenets that go along with my lifestyle. For example, this sex only for procreation thing is a little, um, hard to live by...

#124 BG,

forgive me I was speaking to the Protestant notions of sin versus the more complex parsing of the concept by us(them? The Catholics)

Non-Catholics are fond of accusing us of playing games with "what sin is"...

quite the contrary, we have older definitions and the differences are real.

Some of the best bouts of analysis and debate in the faith are the interpretations of sin.

1. It must be of a grave matter;
2. It must be committed with full knowledge that it is a mortal sin;
3. It must be committed with full consent. [Full consent means to do it "voluntarily."] (C.C.C. # 1857)

Must ALL be present for a sin to be mortal...

Venial sin seems to me to be more about not following the rulebook closely enough, but not doing aggressive harm to tohers either...

I dunno, like I said I am rather lapsed.

My son being called a bastard at the age of 6 months by an adherent to the faith because the wife and I(she being Baptist) decided to be married by a Judge made my wandering in the wilderness a LOT easier...

I am in a reflective phase.

#124 Bubble Girl,

Do you believe in Purgatory?

#127 sven10077

Hell (no pun intended), my parents were married for over a decade before I was born, and I've been called a bastard countless times...

#126 CtP,

Hey a lot of the happier Catholics I know are 'cafeteria" style...

#129 CtP,

I guess what bothered me about it was that the wife and I had decided to raise the baby in one faith.(we had been married for 6 years at the time of his birth) She was totally willing and happy to convert to catholicism as the mysteries of the Church are appealing to her soul I suppose. This person rendered that judgement and seemed hateful that I had gone outside the faith to find a spouse.

I have loved my wife since I was 12. She has been the apple of my eye for two decades. Such love does not grow on trees.

Anyway I told the person that they wonder why they are a dying in numbers faith?

THAT was why.

They lost two converts(wife and boy) and very likely lost me.

I have no use for such an exclusionary and compassionless dogmatic Church.

If we're on Catholicism, this is the best online resource I've found. I can read New Advent all day. It's a history geek's treasure trove.

For example ^^^, "mortal sin": under sin.

Mortal sin is defined by St. Augustine (Contra Faustum, XXII, xxvii) as "Dictum vel factum vel concupitum contra legem æternam", i.e. something said, done or desired contrary to the eternal law, or a thought, word, or deed contrary to the eternal law. This is a definition of sin as it is a voluntary act. As it is a defect or privation it may be defined as an aversion from God, our true last end, by reason of the preference given to some mutable good. The definition of St. Augustine is accepted generally by theologians and is primarily a definition of actual mortal sin. It explains well the material and formal elements of sin. The words "dictum vel factum vel concupitum" denote the material element of sin, a human act: "contra legem æternam", the formal element. The act is bad because it transgresses the Divine law. St. Ambrose (De paradiso, viii) defines sin as a "prevarication of the Divine law". The definition of St. Augustine strictly considered, i.e. as sin averts us from our true ultimate end, does not comprehend venial sin, but in as much as venial sin is in a manner contrary to the Divine law, although not averting us from our last end, it may be said to be included in the definition as it stands. While primarily a definition of sins of commission, sins of omission may be included in the definition because they presuppose some positive act (St. Thomas, I-II:71:5) and negation and affirmation are reduced to the same genus. Sins that violate the human or the natural law are also included, for what is contrary to the human or natural law is also contrary to the Divine law, in as much as every just human law is derived from the Divine law, and is not just unless it is in conformity with the Divine law.

It's really fascinating stuff for a medieval history / law (boo, hiss!) guy like myself. The RCC was government, law, educational system, and church for a looong time after the fall of the Western Roman Empire.

#131 sven10077

My guess is the person who made the remark was as much ignorant as hateful. They are the ones who give Catholicism a bad name. Be that as it may, it's a damn sight better than killing you and yours for not believing in some other religion's icon, if you know what I mean... ;)

btw, congrats on what sounds like a wonderful marriage and family -- you know, love at 12 can get you arrested these days... (just kidding)... :)

Beagle

It's really fascinating stuff for a medieval history / law (boo, hiss!) guy like myself.

It's ok to like that subject. I think tax law is interesting, myself.

---
Re Eason Jordan - if he said the sky is blue, I'd look up to check for myself. Why does he have any cred with anyone? He's a self-confessed liar, and he's been lying for more than a decade, at least.

#131 sven10077

From what I understand, love has no part in the Catholic doctrine...obay the rules and you'll be okay. Who said anything about love?

They don't want you to read The Bible!

Keep them uninfomed and scared.

#133 CtP,

Well we didn't consummate it for a while...

:)

Thanks for the kind words.

It has been five years almost since my last mass. The compromise we arrived at was Anglican as it sort of splits the difference, but I get the feeling I will never be a good 'member" of a Church again.

Hope the big guy and I can work it out.

Yeah I realize one of the strengths of western civ is the guy did not feel the need to blow me down Alameda Blvd. for my "heresy".

That "other faith" sure does seem to spend a lot of energy coming up with reasons for internal cannabalistic consumption of the "weaker members".

#135 Sarah D.

If I may ask, what gives you that impression?

I must say that as a non-conformist Catholic I feel some comfort in the church in these days.

Is the church going to be dhimmi? Or not?

I'm betting on not.

That "other faith" sure does seem to spend a lot of energy coming up with reasons for internal cannabalistic consumption of the "weaker members".

It's the Roach Motel of religions. You can check in, but you can't check out (except permanently). Or maybe it's the Hotel California of religons. You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave. I'll stop now. I'm of course speaking about Big Mo's "PCP of religions" (that's a zombie I think).

I'm not a Catholic (in fact, not an "anything" denominational) and have never understood these different sorts of sins. According to the Bible, God doesn't differentiate. There's just "sin" - we commit different kinds to be sure, but nowhere can you read about some being worse than others in God's eyes. He hates all sin equally, and the wonder of it is that He is so ready to forgive us if we turn to Him in repentance. That's all He asks of us! Jesus has paid the price for our sin once and for all on the cross. We do not have to keep paying it.

135 Sarah D.,

Hey I am NOT that old...I was twelve when Gutenberg laid the groundwork for the schism...

No seriously, I am not slogging any Christian faith I just feel in a quandry on what brand to choose so I pluck from several. Love can be seen to be a secondary component of relationships in some sects of the faith. I could not have lived without hers or my friends.

I guess at the end of the day I am a utilitarian-I have no use for a faith that does anything but enable an adherent to live a richer more full life in the spiritual plane. That is not to ignore or omit the sinew of the scriptures, but strict adherence to tenents of the Church as opposed to the word and the faith to the distress of quality of life for followers rankles me.

So, I'm late to this 'catholic' party, but here's my two cents worth.

I was raised catholic, but I'm the black sheep of the family - the only non-catholic.

I was unofficially excommunicated from the church when I was freshmen in high school. Why you ask? For arguing with at priest about confession.

Guess it's straight to hell for me, do not stop in purgatory, do not collect $200... it's brimstone and fire for me.

Oh, and Bubbles, I never ran with scissors, but I sure wanted to!

#136 sven10077

I can relate. I haven't been to Confession in almost 20 years. Not after going to Confession and then having the priest (who was actually a bishop) start being real cold to me as he went around the (small) church offering each a sign of peace (recall from the Catholic Mass). I pointed it out to my brother, and he noticed his coldness, also. Thereafter, I figured I'd do my confessing one-on-One...

#137 christheprofessor

Which impression? Love? Or reading the Bible?

#142 SkippyM.)

Screw the Church your salvation is a personal matter between you and the Maker. The whole vibe of Priesthood and friends as agent of salvation thing irritates me. I was the lone Catholic of my family because I adopted our babysitter's faith.

Mom died a protestant and I refuse to believe that God looks at her differently because she did not deploy the Rosary.

#142 SkippyMoment

I've been looking for you all night...email me please!

#139 Beagle,

Yeah it is hard to look at it and say, "wow they have REALLY figured out the path to spiritual cleanliness and secular empowerment" when their striving for their view on one precludes the other...

sad really in the 1300s they would have been the ones in a position of power wondering these things.

#140

Amen to that!

#136 sven10077

Hope the big guy and I can work it out.

You've got the right idea. Each man must work out his own salvation. Oh, and God wants the sacrifice of your heart (love for and to him) not a lot of vain sacrifices of goats, rams, chickens, doves, or anything else.

#141 sven10077

LOL!

have no use for a faith that does anything but enable an adherent to live a richer more full life in the spiritual plane. That is not to ignore or omit the sinew of the scriptures, but strict adherence to tenents of the Church as opposed to the word and the faith to the distress of quality of life for followers rankles me.

Well said! My devout Catholic Grandmother, the mother of NINE children, told me yesterday "One child is enough, don't you ever let religion or a man tell you otherwise!"

My life is RICH and I give thanks every day!

#142 SkippyMoment

Hi, {{{Skippy}}}

#141 Sven

No seriously, I am not slogging any Christian faith I just feel in a quandry on what brand to choose so I pluck from several.

I understand. As I mentioned (about 5-6 weeks ago on another thread), I sometimes think that organized religions are man's fallible attempt to get at the "truth" of God, and so of Man's religions have flaws. However, by picking and choosing those beliefs such that we treat each other with respect and dignity and don't infringe on each others' rights, we pretty much live life as it should be lived...

#144 Sarah D.

The love part...

#145 sven10077

My salvation is in Christ, not the church. My family loves me even though they 'worry' because I'm not catholic. I worry for them that they hold to tenants of that faith more dear than the foundation which is Christ. Attending church doens't save anyone. 'doing' or 'being' doesn't save anyone... Jesus' sacrifice, believing in him, accepting him, loving him... now we're talking.

[no offense to those who don't believe as I do, I respect your right to believe as you do]

#146 Sarah D.

I'll e-mail you in the morning. I got' the message from Bubbles.

#151 christheprofessor

What has love got to do with it when the church tells you that she MUST be Catholic to marry her? Nothing! The faith isn't about love, period. It's about pro-creation. Now I can see why that's important...as the Islamics outnumber and outbirth us.

#136 sven10077

I get the feeling I will never be a good 'member" of a Church again.

The "church" is the body of Christ - a living organism, not an organization or building. If you believe in Jesus and follow Him as your Savior and Lord, you are a member of the body! The Bible is so clear on this - it is us who have made it complicated with our traditions and rituals.

#143 christheprofessor

Thereafter, I figured I'd do my confessing one-on-One...

You're so right! Jesus is the Great High Priest, our Intercessor with the Father. You have need of no other. Do you find this as liberating as I have done?!

#150

{{{Chris}}}

oh and anyone else that wants a hug {{{minions}}}

I was born a bastard - a Catholic bastard. I was adopted by a Catholic family, through Catholic Charities. Make of it what you will.

I went to Catholic school for one month in first grade, but then my parents moved me to public school. Let's just say I kept getting in trouble (I had trouble with the authoritarian nonsense of the nun who taught my class). If I'd stayed there, I'd probably be in prison now. So I got only Catechism, where we were taught things I knew were wrong, like don't chew the host, because you'll hurt God (I chewed, because the priest chewed, and if I didn't chew, it stuck to the roof of my mouth).

I asked for a Bible for my confirmation present, and I remember everyone was surprised, but they got me one. Good book. :)

I still feel Catholic, but I stopped going to mass when they told me how to vote (really ticked me off). I need either to reconcile and go to mass or go somewhere else - I miss it.

#156 Cattt

The 'church' does and says a lot of dumb stuff, and that includes the protastant denominations. The LORD knows your heart, he wants your heart. Don't give up. Just ask him to reveal himself to you and direct to where he wants you to go.

Focus on what the bible teaches you, and if you want, check up out [Link: www.calvarychapel.com...] for a church near you. No pressure there. Just good teaching and a lot of warm people.

Are you a California lizard minion?

#152 SkippyMoment

Good, thanks!

Sven

Do I believe in Purgatory? I don't know, I think it's here, and that, yes, there is Hell, and that Evil exists. As far as religion, don't know about that. As a former Catholic school girl, I hate all forms of authority...

Sarah

Check your e-mail.

#153 Sarah D.

I agree that it's about procreation (or, market share). When it comes to perpetuating bullshit, archaic tenets, pretty much all organized religions (e.g., Catholicism) take forever to change. Superstitions are very persistent...

SkippyMoment - good advice (why didn't I think of that?)

I am a Maryland minion. We're not all blue here. :)

Chris Cramer is still at it. This is from today's Jerusalem Post in the Letters to the Editors Section. This is a good one.

Where the reporting stopped
Sir, - "Where the reporting stops" (January 18) contained a litany of serious allegations against CNN and its employees which were completely inaccurate and must not go unchallenged. The most serious was the obscene suggestion that last year's kidnapping of a CNN producer was "staged" and that CNN was in some way complicit in this.

CNN completely rejects this vulgar charge. In fact, nowhere in your article were you able to give one single named source to substantiate any of the charges made against us. Your readers should draw their own conclusions from that.

Because CNN was not given the opportunity to respond to your serious allegations I need to rebut each one in some detail:

1. The most serious charge made against CNN was contained in the following paragraph: "Late last year, CNN witnessed one of the most bizarre stories in its history when one of its Palestinian affairs producers, Riad Ali, was 'kidnapped' in Gaza City by unidentified gunmen. The case itself remains shrouded in mystery, but the way CNN has handled it is even more peculiar. It is, though, perhaps indicative of the difficulties - and compromises - foreign media make in covering the Palestinian situation. Ali, a Druse from the Galilee, was eventually released unharmed, and all the Palestinian groups still insist that they had nothing to do with his alleged abduction, leading many Palestinian journalists to conclude that the whole case was either staged or the result of a 'power struggle' inside CNN."

This part of your article is quite disgusting, more so as it comes exactly 12 months after the murder of two CNN employees in Iraq who were also engaged in newsgathering for this organization. An insinuation that this abduction was staged, without attribution, is bad enough, but you then suggest CNN was in some way complicit in that.

The assertions made in this part of your article are fanciful, have no basis in fact, and we reject them. Riad, his family and CNN staff members who routinely place themselves in harm's way deserve nothing less than a full apology.

JPOST-CNN Exposed

Should have known all you kooks are Catholics, in one form or another... :) I think Rayra might be one too, I seem to remember something in one of this posts. And if he isn't, my apologies, Rayra...

#156 Cattt,

Good to know one is not alone.

#154 Deja Vu,

Yeah I have been pondering that interpretation, thanks for the kind words.

#152 SM,

I agree the building is often not vessel to anything but a bonfire of the vanities involved. I suppose that is what I feel prey to with the rejection of my son.

#150 CtP,

You know reading what you typed reminds me of one of the things I took refuge in in the wake of the attacks on 9/11-it is my sincere anecdotally based belief that a LOT of people are reanalyzing and strengthening their faith in Him in the wake of the assault.

I feel the world of tyrants never has more need of their fear than when the US is acting from a strong spiritual and ethical base.

#149 Sarah D.)

A bountiful and rich life is the most one can ask for as grace and reward for a life well lived and work well done.

I am happy you and yours reap the bounty of a good life.

#161 christheprofessor

My Grandmother had to ASK the priest if it was OK to have a hystorectomy. Not that the doctor hadn't already TOLD her that's what needed to be done. She needed that okay from the men who have no women or children.

/Pissed.

Wait, if we are Catholics we were supposed to vote for Kerry...

The Eastern Orthodox got it right. If you want to get married, you stay a parish priest for life. If you want to advance in the church, you stay celibate, at least that's what I understand.

#161 CtP

Now about that 'sex is only for procreation' thing... that is NOT in the bible. The only sex forbidden is sex outside of marriage (fornication), sex with a married person (adultry), and sexual perversion (sex with the same gender, with animals, with children, and there may be a few other perversions I've missed). Inside marriage... party on dude.

Now, why would God ruin our fun that way and make all sex outside of marrige off limits. It was explained to me quite well this way. Our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit. We should keep our 'house' clean for a holy presences that dwells within us.

God has our best interests at the center of his heart. He's not trying to ruin our fun, but to give us the best life we can have. I for one am looking forward to the day when I'm married and I can delight my husband in ways he never imagined, and in turn be delighted until my eyes roll back and spin in their sockets. But hey, that's just me. ;-)

#159 Bubble Girl

As a former Catholic school girl, I hate all forms of authority...

Boy, do I know what you mean. :)

#162 Cattt

I'm pretty sure there is a Calvary Chapel in your area. I'm certain you'll like what you hear. Just remember, we are all flawed people, so some may be a bit too 'churchy' but most are just lovely people that love the LORD and would welcome you just as you are.

#159 Bubble Girl,

Ah yes I recognize your position better with that post.

I often wonder if this walk around what I think is this mortal coil is my time of contrition for misdeeds of a life poorly spent prior to my rest here. I don't believe so, but I can see where many would. The contemporary mortal world has a lot of the symptomology of Purgatorio but I refuse to believe that Stalin was walking any path of seeking grace.

I NEED Purgatory because I require there be punishment for misdeeds and evil here on earth that does not rise to Mortal Sin.

People decry the concept as one of punsihment and suffering, but I believe the notion is purification through self-punishment. One of my favorite priests explained that he feels and his mentor felt that our time(if needed) in purgatory was in the end a self-analysis and judgement of the depth of our sins and rejection of Grace and the proper life-that when we had been purified to our own standards as well as those of the Lord that we would rise to His glory.

I am not conceitied enough or prideful enough to think I am so pure I get in on the first ballot, metaphorically speaking.

sven

Speaking of flawed, didn't Soros just write that Kerry was flawed... and that's why they lost. This guy, Eason Jordan has thrown down the gauntlet. Rumsfeld should order all MSM out of Iraq and open an inquiry.

Call their bluff. This guy needs to get the LGF spotlight.

#166 Sarah D.

I understand. I always thought my father got his Mass-attending ways from his father. My mother wasn't Catholic and only rarely attended Mass, so it didn't dawn on me as a child that it was my Grandmother who was the devout one. Turns out that the priest who married my grandparents (in the 20th century teens) demanded $5 as payment, which was exorbitant at that time. So, my grandfather rarely went to church in the last 40+ years of his life.

#167 Bubble Girl,

I won't tell the Pope how to wear the ten gallon beanie if he won't tell me how to elect Jungle John...

#165 & #172 sven10077

Consider this. If there was any other way to achive eternal life with God in heaven, would He have sent his only begotten son to die the most horrible death ever, to be the living sacrifice for all sin ever committed and that would ever be committed?

None of us is good enough. We need the grace, the mercy, the blood of that sacrifice to wash us clean.

[again, apologies to any who don't agree with this, but this is what I believe, based on the gospels and what the bible teaches].

'Night Minions!

(((Minions!)))

#176 SkippyMoment

Don't sweat it, Sparky. We were off on a religion tangent, anyway... ;)

Sven

As I fully expect to be going to Hell, I don't worry about Purgatory or Heaven. Besides, I have always considered Heaven to be, essentially boring. Being good all the time, just doesn't appeal to me. Especially for Eternity. I once met a very religious man, not Catholic, who was a sourpuss. He kept giving me pamphlets saying "Where Will You Be In Eternity?"

I thought, not with you buddy, as I threw them in the trash.

#178 CtP

Thanks sparky... hey, at least this time you didn't get reamed for using that name ;-)

Unless you'd like me to give you a good tongue lashing?

#176 SM,

yes that is the crux of the schism.

Part of the reason I do not feel I fit into either camp.

My brother(who is 3 years younger than me) asked me once about "why the saints?"

Now in a secular historic sense I believe "why the saints" is answered in the tactis evangelical Christianity deployed against the Barbarian tribes to the north as the faith drifted...

that was not what he was asking.

"Why the Saints?"

Well I believe that the Maker loves all of us with Passion but I also feel he has ALL to observe and operate. I never feel quite conceited enough to hit the 9-line direct for Him so I use the Saints as a switchboard to His grace.

I dunno like I said I am reflective.

#179 BG

Besides, I have always considered Heaven to be, essentially boring. Being good all the time, just doesn't appeal to me.

I see we have a different concept of Heaven...

#180 SkippyMoment

You are in a rare mood this evening, aren't you? You GO, girlfriend...

#179 BG,

Heh.

I agree, but not that you are going to hell.

Heaven seems boring, but then again we are not experiencing it.

Imagine the biggest endorphin rush you have ever had non-stop for oh eternity...

I hope, and pray I will retain enough of "me" to visit my fallen friends and family. You are a doctor so I imagine you have spent at least some time pondering "whither immortality" in the sense of a person who has outlived their time. The MDs in my extended family usually went through that after a bout playing in the Gerentology ward.

I could not imagine seeing all I love and desire gone.

My Great-Grandma lived long enough to have seen Indians in Ohio in her youth living in forests and men walking on the moon.

Just seems a long span and a lot to lose.

ChrisTheProf

So what is in your Heaven then?

81 sven10077

so I use the Saints as a switchboard to His grace.

I think we have stuff in common. I pray to my patron saint (Therese - the little flower of Jesus) a lot.

One day, several years ago, when I got in my car (which had been locked), there was a saint card of St. Therese. I have no idea where it came from - still have it.

A few years later, I was rummaging around an old furniture store. In the back room, there was a tall, beautiful old statue of her, calling to me. I saw it from all the way through tons of junk, about 30 feet away. Still have that too, of course.

She always answers prayers - she listens and helps. I feel that I am talking to a friend when I pray to her.

#183 christheprofessor

We both know that certain forces drive the 'skippy' moment in me, and those forces have been unleashed... yes, the hounds of hell stalk the halls looking for the weak... or a midnight snack as the case might be! :-)

181 sven10077

I don't know about the 'saint worship' as some of my Christian friends call it, but I do know that Jesus is our advocate, not the saints. Going to the head guy is the only way to get things done.

That said, my favorite saint was always Francis. What a gentle man.

Hey, has anyone seen the recent version of "Luther"... excellent movie.

well all a fascinating and welcome change of pace...

Soros and Komrade ketchup will have to live without my barbs for a night.

Best to you and yours,
sven

#165 sven

Yeah I have been pondering that interpretation, thanks for the kind words.

It isn't an interpretation, it's what the Word of God teaches!

I NEED Purgatory because I require there be punishment for misdeeds and evil here on earth that does not rise to Mortal Sin.

But Jesus paid the price for your sin and mine on the cross, once and forever. He said "It is finished!" (the penalty is paid in full). He took our punishment on Himself, suffering terrible agonies in His body. But the worst agony was that the Father could not look upon Jesus as he bore the sins of the world. Never before had Jesus been separated from His Father and His anguished lament, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" was when God turned away from Him and all was darkness. Why do you think you still need purgatory? You no longer need punishment for your misdeeds, Sven, Jesus has paid the full price for you! Rejoice! If you believe in the Jesus of the Bible with all your heart and accept Him as your Lord and Savior you are set free! "When the Son shall set you free, you shall be free indeed!" (John Ch 8 v 36)

Sven

Night!

#185 BG (and Skippy, and Sven, and Sarah D, and ...) all those in the religion discussion... :)

What's in my heaven? Well, I'd like to think that it's a perpetual state of happiness. All good news, no bad. The sunshine without the rain (unless you love a downpour in the mountains, or on the boat, etc). The making up without the fight. The car that never breaks down. All the answers to life's unanswered questions. You get the gist...

And if it's gonna be a real heaven, it has to have all the people who have gone before us and will come after us...

#189

Good night, to you and yours.

#187 SM

Do I detectith Olde English...?

Totally OT, but since this is the most active current thread and I've been without internet service since I remembered, did anyone else remember that this is the second anniversary of the Columbia Shuttle disaster?

May the memories of the crew be always for a blessing.

#190 Deja vu

Amen, and Amen!

113 ggt 2/1/2005 09:03PM PST

THE BORGIA'S, oohh, sven, never ever ever mention THE BORGIA'S

---

Gee whiz. They are interesting - particularly Pope Alexander VI's children, Cesare and his sister Lucrezia, and their interesting relationship...

Ben Hecht based the original movie "Scarface" loosely on Cesare and Lucrezia's relationship? They totally missed that in the remake.

#192 ChrisTheProf

I love it, sounds really great. Especially getting to be with all our loved ones. I would forego everything else to be able to be once again with them...

#194 christheprofessor 2

Do I detectith Olde English...?

My lord, pray tell your handmaid what be thy pleasure?

PIMF - delete the questionmark. :)

MommyDoc

Thanks for the reminder. They are in the arms of God.

#192 Heaven is all that an more.

#196 Skippy Moment
A big {{{ hug}}} and for anyone else who's in need of one!

#195 mommydoc

Saw that on the TV yesterday, have said prayers.

#198 BG

My philosophy on Heaven is probably contrary to pure Catholicism, but, hey, that's what I'm goin' with...

#199 SM

Am I the only knight in this here venue? 'Morning calls, and I cannot leave m'lady here unattended...

{{{deja vu}}}

Well all minions. May you all dance with angels in your dreams, and May they watch over you as you sleep.

Good night fair minions, blessings to you all

ChrisTheProf

Are you single? And I am not looking to hookup, asking for other reasons. Okay, people?

Night Skippy :)

Good night my Lord Chris... anon, we'll greet a new day.

Good night bubbles

G'night, Skippy. Sleep tight...

BG. Yes. (Innocent reasons... wink wink, nod, nod) ;)

ChrisTheProf

LOL LOL

christheprofessor and Bubble Girl

Heaven is so wonderful it is beyond our imagining.
1 Cor 2 v 9 says:
No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has concieved what God has prepared for those who love Him"
And in Revelation 21 v 4:
"And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying; and there shall be no more pain, for the old order of things has passed away."
Heaven is indescribably beautiful and our joy will know no limits!

Dejavu

thank you for taking the time to make your wonderful post!

Good night everyone and God bless!

Just checked out BBC's website, nothing about this conference and the claims of US targeting Journalists...

Breaking any commandment excited him, but he was partial to the seventh.

Johann Burchard (about Pope Alexander VI)

OK, I'll stop. No more Borgias. Time for bed, anyway.

#213 Bubble Girl
My privilege - I love the Word of God! And the wonderful thing is that we need no other counsel, for in it is contained everything we need to know. I can't believe how long it took me to understand that simple truth!

#202 SkippyMoment

I think of Heaven as being a full and wonderous place. We are created as eternal beings.

Heaven will be a place that evil cannot touch, where we will be united with God who is the source of all love and all knowledge.

What a great adventure!

Hugh Hewitt: Cross-Examining [CNN's Eason] Jordan
[Link: www.freerepublic.com...] - 28k

Last Friday, CNN's Eason Jordan published an op-ed in the New York Times that contained some admissions that cannot be considered as anything other than astonishing. CNN's "chief news executive" confessed that, among other things, Saddam's crazy son Uday had told Eason in 1995 that he, Uday, intended to assassinate two of his brothers-in-law. The two men were not warned by CNN and were eventually lured back into Iraq where they were murdered.

Jordan said in his Times essay that he felt awful having these stories "bottled up inside me." Not as bad as the brothers-in-law felt, of course, but pretty bad. Jordan went on to confess that during his watch CNN also failed to report other tales of the Hussein regime's towering brutality.

#218 superninja

Beautifully put! :-)

I'm out myself... Not an early morning tomorrow, but a morning nonetheless... Good night, all...

#217 deja vu

You aren't the only one. I'm so glad to read all of your comments tonight.

I can spend the rest of my life studying God's Word and still not know everything there is to know in it.

In Heaven, the Word will be with us - all of God's infinite love and wisdom and knowledge.

As much as I get distracted by my life here, there's nothing more exciting to me than seeking God. The desire to know him with the fullness we will in Heaven.

#220 deja vu

Guess everyone is turning in for the night. I should as well.

Thanks everyone for the discussion! Time well spent. :)

#62 Ninetails ...

Yes I can name them ..

Zahra Kazemi, Iran

Her case was particularly awful, she was essentially beaten to death by the Mullah's goon squads. She had dual Canadian/Iranian citizenship, the Canadians raised a bit of a fuss, but not much. Relations between Ottawa and Teheran remain intact (shamefully).

Bonifacio Gregorio, Phillipines

An anti-corruption crusader, killed by mobsters with ties to local/national government figures.

Aleksei Sidorov, Russia

Sadly, one of many killed in Putin's Russia for inquiring on things the authorities would rather not have discussed.

More details here: [Link: www.cpj.org...]

(note they have a lot on the casualties in Iraq, those really should not be counted, a lot were accidents, roll-overs, stepping on mines, stuff like that sadly happens in war. But the other stuff will chill your blood).

They've left out one of the most egregious ... Francisco Ortiz, crusading editor of Tijuana's Zeta Newspaper who took over from the co-founder Hector Felix Miranda (assasinated in 1988). Co-founder Jesus Blancornelas (Publisher) was wounded in 1997, in an attack that killed one of his bodyguards. Ortiz, Miranda, and Blacornelas published articles that exposed corrupt druglords, and who they had on their payroll. Ortiz was murdered in front of his children (who were not shot) in June 24, 2004.

Conclusion, some journalists like Ortiz are astonishingly brave (he received many death threats) and do outstanding work to uncover truth about corruption and crime. THEY are real journalists, but note they don't sit in comfortable offices or pontificate in Davos. They actually work for a living (and sadly die for it).

superninja
Thanks for your kind comments and encouragement - my heart aches for those who are where I once was - bound up with churchianity and its trappings. How I long to unfetter those who are still caught up in church tradition and the man-made doctrines that limit. I hope you are still there to read this! God bless and sleep well.

OT:

Didn't someone here predict that there would be a movement to free Abu Grabass dungeon-master Charles Graner?

Well, looky here: FreeGraner.com

It appears to be legit.

#225,

The duty of a military person is to perform his duty with honor, and when he steps over the line, he should receive his punishment with honor. I spent 10yrs+ in the Army as a combat soldier and leader (NCO) in peacetime and combat 2yrs. in 'nam. I still follow that rule, for I will always be a soldier.

PIMF #226 Shiplord Kirel, sorry.

Completely OT, I went to my local Walmart yesterday for grub and decided to try a new brand of coffee, I picked the espresso beans and ground them in the machine provided (only 4 bucks), for you coffee drinkers it is excellant, try it.

OH- I remember reading a New York magazine article a few years ago that covered some cult. It said several CNN people belonged to the cult. Can't remember the name of it...

Oh here's the cult CNN people go to (New York Magazine, 2001)

Pay Money, Be Happy...Welcome to EST: The Next Generation
People often talk about it with their co-workers; at CNN, Landmark has been popular among on-air talent and upper management, including former executive vice-president Gail Evans. Devotees can even hold three-hour introductions to the Forum in their homes, à la Amway.

These days, Landmark says Erhard has no role in its business, although their courses are based on his "technology" -- the structure, style, and system of beliefs he used in est and later in the Forum, which he created in 1985 when est enrollment started to dip. Landmark's Forum is shorter than est and has fewer rules

At the end, Willmore scrawls on the board the phrase LIFE IS EMPTY AND MEANINGLESS, AND IT'S EMPTY AND MEANINGLESS THAT IT'S EMPTY AND MEANINGLESS on the board, and the room goes nuts. Everyone's getting it,

#163 Mojo Jojo

Your link does not work as I get "Cannot find the article"!
Perhaps Jpost pulled it?

173 Bubble Girl - harles posted about the Soros article (Mon 1/31 or Tue 2/1?)

This might be just a tad OT, but Welcome to Jesusland Journalism School, Dan Rather

maybe we should target more from CNN...

"Dirty Laundry?"

No.

Eason Jordan needs a "Dirty Sanchez" from one of the Borgias family descendants, if one can be located.

(I'm sorry)

Sarah D-

While they may not be qiote as Bible literateas Protestants, Catholics are not discouraged from reading the Bible. I wonder if that somehow became a poular notion among Protestants because until the printing press was inventer, Bibles were rare, and the Church pretty much had to do all the interpretation.

A Catholic service routinely as an Old Testament reading, followed by the singing of a Psalm, followed by a New Testament reading (usually either a reading from Acts or one of Paul's letters to the early churches), followed by a reading from one of the Gospels.

BTW, I'm not sure about purgatory. I have seen no reference in the Bible to it.

Ed

From what I read while growing up and even taking a class called the Bible as Literature, there is no such thing as purgatory.There is heaven and there is hell. With the earth in between. Although that doesn't mean that hell exists inside the earth. Earth being one of three planes of existence.

Today's TSM journalist has become an enemy of this nation, spouting anti-american lies and drivel. Their claim, although I'd probably cheer if it were indeed true, is just one more fabrication, one more lie, one more piece of BS. The more TSM journalists die, the stronger, and better informed, this nation becomes.

I very much doubt that the MSM of today..would have the courage to say this if they had any thought outside their hate filled dream rants against republicans and President Bush.
some courage they have never shown
1. asked all those hard questions to kerry about when he was in Cambodia..how he got medals his commander turned him down for..what he paid to visit to the communist organizers for the anti war movement in paris.
2. why al gore was a drug dealer in vietnam on the payroll of a air force officer who was stuffing drugs in the bodies of american soldiers. and why his father was blackmailed by the pentagon to keep that from puplic knowledge.
3.how clinton one was sending his state troopers to murder and beat people who KNEW things about him.
4. how clinton 2 is a stalinist who belongs to international terrorist groups and has since the 70's.
these are all massive stories, worth the effort of at least one or two journalists, but they prefer to make up truth and invent stories that disgrace republicans. can more then one do that?

#236 OldTime

Thanks for the link. A funny and well written article. I worked part time as a small town sports writer, and she is right on the money about the fans. They got on me once because I wasn't calculating the distance of punts correctly. She makes a good point about old Dan.

I urge you all to go to CNN and file news tips. mine was:

---12 Journalists targeted and killed by US Troops--

Eason Jordan [chief news executive of CNN] asserted that he knew of 12 journalists who had not only been killed by U.S. troops in Iraq, but they had in fact been targeted. He repeated the assertion a few times, which seemed to win favor in parts of the audience (the anti-US crowd) and cause great strain on others.
---
If this claim is true, a world class news organization must have dozens of reporters ready to break this monstrous crime. If the claim is true and Mr Jordan doesn't have you working on it, he's incompetent and should be fired.

If the claim is false, it is a traitorous libel against our soldiers and Mr Jordan ought to be fired.

The world awaits news of how you are dealing with his claims. But I won't be watching CNN till I get the news elsewhere.

---end of post to cnn---

This is an extraordinary accusation of premeditated murder that CNN's Eason Jordan makes. He needs to present his evidence or admit that he made it up.

Unfortunately, CNN "sought the truth" by sticking their collective heads up into Saddam's small intestine...

Funny, haven't heard anything about this on the airwaves, or on the web today. Guess there's nothing to it then. That makes Jordan a liar then, doesn't it? Traitorous little prick.

journalists have been deliberately murdered by US troops in Iraq

This is just about the worst nonsense I have heard from moonbat journalists in a long time. But with so many moonbats around, perhaps it would be a good idea to begin thinning their herds so they don'r overpopulate and starve to death.

Well, I guess that explains why they so rarely engage in truth seeking, I knew there had to be a good reason.

Regards
Dog