Dhimmi Watch has got a link today to the story Born to be a slave in Niger by the BBC. The Burka Broadcasting Corporation manages to write the entire article without mentioning words like Islam, Islamic, Muslim or sharia even once, despite the fact that slavery is clearly sanctioned by Islam even today, both in the Koran and in the Sunna of Muhammad, who owned slaves himself:

About Islamic slavery

When the left spreads lies, it's called "journalism." When the right spreads facts, it's "McCarthyism." Go figure.

So release the tape.

(being discussed on Fox News Sunday)

Vichy French bastard.

By the way: I am looking for good, recent books about how the blogosphere and other smaller, private websites are challenging the MSM and changing the information flow. If you have some online links, I'd appreciate that, too.

i was reading the comment section of eastongate and it was interesting to hear people rag on the push on easton and not waiting for the full story before judging. from the same people who wait with baited breath for anything negative to report on concerning the troops, etc. even a hint of something will launch them into a ha-ha moment. if none of what has been written and discussed is true, you would think that he would stand his ground.

RELEASE THE TAPE!

Exposing slander is McCarthyism. Hmm. Wouldn't, in leftist mythology, it be the role of opponents of McCarthy?

#4 Norwegian kafir

There shuld be a column about that topic in a tech pub tomorrow... I'll provide a link when I have it.

I find it amazing that in the same breath that Bertrand Pecquerie complains about threats to free speech he complains about bloggers exercising free speech.

I guess as someone here says, free speech is just for "uber libs."

The other problem with McCarthyism, is that he was right. There were communist spies working for the federal government, and he was right to expose and confront them. Many of the "innocent victims of the witch hunt" have been absolutely confirmed to be spies by the relatively recent declassification of intercepted cables.

Thus, the same MO from the left, demonize someone who truthfully challenges them.

Bwaaahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Sons of McCarthy

Hehehehehehehehehehe

Damn,coffee in the keyboard..........again.

Time to break out the "cluebat(TM)"

Accusations of First Amendment deprivations: check.
Accusations of McCarthyism: check.
Mr. Pecquerie, who is French: check.
Mr. Pecquerie, who is a moonbat: check.

I used to post at Straight Dope. Cecil Adams may fight ignorance, but the comments tend to be filled with college age geniuses who know how to solve all the world's problems with socialism, which had never been tried you see.

In the process of debating communism over and over, and over, I developed Beagle's First Corrolary to Godwin's Law: substitute McCarthy for Hitler. It's a testament to the success of propaganda. The actual purges and gulags don't get any condemnation. But one representative who issued some subpoenas which probably should have been quashed has become the source of all evil in the minds of the extreme Left.

We'll never see that tape :(

Well that explains a lot. I really want to see the video now. I wonder who else who was there and applauded (a person could be sitting there but still giving the finger).

What a dumb fucking asshole.

Clearly, THE TRUTH is secondary to the media's agenda.

The media has enjoyed the privilege of scrutinizing everyone while there was nobody to scrutinize them. That has changed, THANK GOD!

#11 - working link

Isn't ironic? Whenever today's witch hunters want to suppress free speech, they simply accuse the people expressing opinions they don't like of "McCarthyism."

These same people like to expose the "myths" of the right. But it turns out they have created an entire system of mythology concerning AIDs, abortion, MyCarthy, WW II internment camps, Islam, GW Bush, and much more.

What?

No Nazi metaphores?

I'm disappointed

This accusation of McCarthyism is so old. So unimaginative. Anybody associated with the writing profession ought to be able to do better than this. But then, these are old people who have nothing left to say. They see nothing beyond their pitiful place in the liberal heirarchy.

I'm sure there's irony in this entire episdoe, but I'm too tired to figure it out.

What's not ironic is the events in this leftist journalist enclave again exposed the liberalism of supposedly 'neutral' organizations and were exposed by the blogosphere.

Instead of trying to accept this fact, the elite come down from on high and use their crumbling bully pulpits to take their revenge.

A free press is a check on government. A free blogosphere is a check on the free press. Conceptually, this is a bit depressing b/c a free press is assumed to be facts focused. Since the MSM has drifted from this, we are fortunate to have this check.

How can I be a son of McCarthy? I'm female, and I'm Jewish. LOL!

"Real promoters of citizen media would have to take some distance with those who have fueled and organised the Eason Jordan hatred. "

ummm ....Eason Jordan fueled the Eason Jordan hatred with his mouth. HELLO?

see jeff jarvis at

[Link: www.buzzmachine.com...]

he made some good points on kurtz's reliable sources on cnn at 1130am eastern

with bill press and david gergen

best quote which jarvis got on the air

Now that everyone has access to a press -- the internet -- anyone you talk to could be a Wolf Blitzer in sheep's clothing.
Welcome to the age of transparency.

no word from gergen on the cheering of the crowd

well worth watching and also read kurtz's article in the wapo

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

id bowwow@mailinator.com
password password

This is so stupid and pathetic and pathetically stupid that I'm at a loss for words.

But watching these people self-destruct is pretty funny, and even gratifying.

Hmm... They're really digging at the pile here. Hitler, then McCarthy... Who's next, Torquemada? In fact, let's get some odds here as to the next comparison figure:

Porifirio Diaz 100:1
Torquemada 70:1
Agusto Pinochet 40:1
Josef Gobbels 40:1

(help me out here, people)

The other problem with McCarthyism, is that he was right.

Bingo. The recently released Verona Files, which contain thousands of hours of FBI surveillance records, now prove that McCarthy was far far far more right than he was wrong.

These Lefties and Libs, such as Mr. Bertrand Pecquerie, who believe in their heart of hearts that they represent "the people" and regular folks, simply can't fathom why we the people can't stand their guts. They're left scratching their heads.

We'll never see the tape. They'll protect their own. The bunch of self righteous hypocrites.

The only tapes, videos, etc., they release are those harmful to our soldiers, our gov't., our way of life.

They are the reporters of 'truth'. *spit*
'Truth' from their perspective.

I'm reading Henry Hazlitt's critique of John Maynard Keynes. The Left has always twisted facts and reason to suit their prejudices. Hazlitt shows point by point that Keynes either didn't know what he was talking about or purposely obfuscated the issues.

So one day libs will tell you that serving in the US military is something to be ashamed of, and the next day they will tell you Kerry deserves to be elected because he served.

Or first they will tell you how important free speech is, and then they will tell you something has to be done about unrestrained blogging.

Okay, self-righteous leftie: fight McCarthyism with the truth!

Embattled lefties fight the truth by yelling "McCarthyism!" or "Racist" or "Islamophobe"....etc.

McCarthyism!

Racism!

Halliburton!

Hitler!

Don't forget RFK worked for McCarthy.

...One of the Orwellian lies of the McCarthy myth is that he "named names," as the slogan goes ruining people's lives with reckless accusations. Apart from distracting questions of guilt or innocence, it is a fact that McCarthy doggedly resisted releasing anyone's name to the public. As is usually the case when liberals are the historians, the truth was just the opposite. Blinded by their own loathing, Democrats literally forced McCarthy to name names.

Excerpt from Treason by Ann Coulter --
Crown Forum, p.64

Senator McCarthy had all the power of the Senate behind him. His comittee could act like a Grand Jury as well as influence popular opinion. To equate the bloggers with him & his committee is ludicrous! The ONLY thing bloggers can hope to affect is Public Opinion, which at the current state is probably rather small in absolute numbers.

I wonder what CNN REALLY afraid of since the only power the blogers have is to influence public opinion? Is the CNN news in such a downward spiral as to call for drastic measures? Perhaps Eason Jordan was about to go because CNN news has lost its leadereship position and this was the excuse needed?

As I write this, CNN has a program discussing Eason Jordan's resignation with David Gergan, and Bill Press. All seem to think that Jordan was "fired" and it was overkill for his "misstatement". Afterall he was such a distinguished journalist witha 21 year career! These two are trying to liken the blogosphere as a "Lynch Mob". This is funny! Imagine if you will, a bunch of bloggers marching around the internet with lighted torches looking for Eason Jordan ready to "string him up to the nearest tree"... Lynch Mob indeed....

My, oh, my how they must hate these weblogs.

Thank you, Charles. Thank you, Charles.

We are no longer dependent on the MSM for our news. And the interpretations of it..

Let me see. This is pretty deep. You make a slandered remark about the US military murdering(and that's what the guy implied) jounalists without any credible evidence, and the people who expose you are sons of McCarthy. What a sorry piece of crap is this Frenchman. And he did get the Hitler angle in: McCarthey=Hitler. What a LOSER!

OT my very first islamicfascist email

"the Jews are God's chosen people"

God has chosen wrongly. We Europeans know the Truth, and have chosen for Eurabia. In the Holy land the battle will be fought.

Sharon is already withdrawing, as he should, the first victory for dhimmitude.

--
Posted by Anonymous to Atlas Shrugged at 2/13/2005 01:02:09 AM

wow, I am not a vigin anymore
feels good though

onward and upward muthufukuhs!

Atlas

Saudi Morality Police See Red Over Valentine Roses

Saudi Arabia's morality police are on the scent of illicit red roses as part of a clampdown on would-be St Valentine's lovers in the strict Muslim kingdom. The Committee for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice, Saudi Arabia's powerful religious vigilantes, have banned shops from selling any red flowers in the run-up to February 14. "They pass by two or three times a day to check we don't have any red flowers," said a Pakistani florist in Riyadh's smart Sulaimaniya district. "Look, no red. I've taken them all out," he said pointing to a dazzling floral collection covering every color of the rainbow except one. Saudi Arabia's purist version of Islam recognizes only two religious occasions a year -- the Muslim feasts after the fasting month of Ramadan and the Haj pilgrimage.

Saudi logic: Red Roses bad, slavery good:

Principal Author of Saudi Curriculums Advocates Slavery

The main author of the Saudi religious curriculum expressed his unequivocal support for the legalization of slavery in one of his lectures recorded on a cassette and obtained by the Saudi Institute.

Damn right! I will defend the honor of the American Armed Forces any day of the week, and I don't care whose son I'm labeled as, and too, I don't care what media outlet you work for if you attack an American Soldier then you are dog sh** in my book. I hope eason jordan and his lot never work again anywhere in the world, traitors!

Augusto Pinochet: One of the greatest smear jobs in history.

What the Left doesn't want you to know or think about:

1. The Chilean parliament passed a resolution stating that if Allende did not stop trampling on the Chilean constitution, it would be the Chilean military's duty to use force. And that's exactly what Pinochet did.

2. Pinochet returned control of the government to civilians and restored democratic elections. Allende was working overtime to replace democratic elections with "workers' and peasants' councils."

So Pinochet removed a tyrant and restored democratic, civilian government. Yet to hear the Left tell it, he was one of the most brutal and arbitrary leaders--unlike their beloved Fidel Castro. You can bet Castro won't give up his throne intil he dies.

#35 Norwegian kafir

I didn't know yellow roses were 'in' in the magic kingdom :-)

Finally, after all those years I know who Daddy is! I feel like Joe Dirt.

Real promoters of citizen media would have to take some distance with those who have fueled and organised the Eason Jordan hatred. If not, the “new era of journalism” opened by the blogosphere will appear as the old clothes of American populism.

Bertrand, if you're reading this, the blogosphere is just getting started. Get used to it. But stop calling it hate, it's just news.

What I'd really like to know is: Does this make Barney Frank a McCarthyist?

My husband showed me an article recently (I'm sorry but I can't remember where) on the left in academia. It stated that since the left predominates in certain spheres of academia, they forget how to debate and prove a point. If everyone around you agrees with what you say, then you get sloppy about substantiating your position. Then, when someone does come along who challenges you, you get defensive....

Same thing here. If the MSM is monolithic in its viewpoints, and is left unchallenged, then the reporters get sloppy about getting the facts.

Back to basic training, guys!

#37 Ibrodsky

Yes, and that's what puts him up there on the list. Who else besides Hitler and McCarthy would they compare someone to... Who have they been smearing? I've heard so many "soandso is Hitler" accusations recently I can't think of any other comparisons they've made.

The fact that he's calling it "raising questions about the Bush administration policy in Iraq" is an implicit admission that Eason did in fact claim that US soldiers were intentionally killing journalists.

#39 Powderfinger
LOL!

No, BF gets a "get out of the gulag free" pass for being gay according to their rules. He needs 2 more strikes against him to be ex-communicated (turning christian or jewish or republican, etc) BTW I had a friend (now deceased) who was gay, black, and republican - and I learned much about the "rules" of LLL thinking through his traumas with his so-called "friends", who at the end, left him all alone to die of AIDS.
I was his only visitor.
hypocritical bastards.

McCarthyism? The left now accuses something besides ITSELF of McCarthyism? Pecquerie is a sickening hypocrite.

#35 Norwegian kafir

Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
Give them to a loved one,
Death to you.

- Saudi Arabia Morality Police

Actually, we're practicing "McCartneyism," which is why Eason, Churchill, Rather and Mapes are Yesterday.

...today, it is enough to raise questions about the Bush administration policy in Iraq to be denounced as “anti-American”.

So, he validates that Jordan's statement was indeed that deliberate targeting of journalists is US military policy. Everyone who is there validates the original charge everytime they open their mouths to defend Jordan. His obfuscation will harder and harder to ignore even by his supporters.

" . . . the defense of the US army honor seemed more important to some bloggers than the defense of reporters’ work . . ."
That's right, you obfuscating, lying dope! The US army is fighting tyranny, you're supporting it. You are on the wrong side, so whine away and we will continue to revel in your self-inflicted misery.

We should organize a boycott of CNN until the tapes are released.

Who's in? Charles?

The entire European continent is under an Islamic attack, and all the descendants of the Vikings are concerned about is whether fishing with worms as bait is too painful for the worms and should be banned by law:

Worms on a hook don't suffer, Norway experts find

Worms squirming on a fishhook feel no pain -- nor do lobsters and crabs cooked in boiling water, a scientific study funded by the Norwegian government has found. Norway might have considered banning the use of live worms as fish bait if the study had found they felt pain. The government called for the study on pain, discomfort and stress in invertebrates to help in the planned revision of Norway's animal protection law. Invertebrates cover a range of creatures from insects and spiders to mollusks and crustaceans.

#51 Abu Maven

I haven't watched CNN in 10 years. They haven't noticed! LOL!

#42 Abu Maven

Sorry. Didn't realize you had already caught it.

McCarthy is a legend among the newsroom media types:

McCarthy's anticommunist crusade faltered in 1954 as his hearings were televised, for the first time on the new American Broadcasting Company. ABC needed to fill their afternoon slots, which allowed the public and press to view first-hand McCarthy's badgering of individuals and controversial tactics. The press also started to run stories about how McCarthy ruined many people's lives with accusations that were in some cases insufficiently backed up by evidence.

The projection of McCarthyism on the bloggers is the only way for these newsroom types in their 20th century timewarp to avoid facing the fact that the blogs are afflicting upon them just what an earlier technology did to McCarthy. And such as the notorious Senator, they're all about hysteria rather than spread of democracy.

Hey, I'm all for heeding the advice of Frenchmen who to investigate unsubstantiated, far-fetched claims. Let's begin with:

There was such a thing as the French Resistance during WWII and it cooperated with the allies.

and then we'll tackle such topics as

Richelieu to Robespierre to Vichy to Chirac: The Evolution and Enlightenment of French Politics

Accusing the US military of murder seems an odd way to pronounce your opposition to Bush policy. Am I missing something?

Birds of a feather........
Cover your freshly washed cars folks, it may get a little dirty from this flock of buzzards.

Lets see the tape, then.

All joking aside, CNN's ratings could go way further down if there were a boycott.

Incidentally, I don't see this as a Left-Right thing. Everyone -- Daily Kos types included -- should be interested in full disclosure, unless they believe it is acceptable to charge that our soldiers are intentionally murdering journalists. Kos is a veteran, right? Maybe he could get his gang to join our jihad?

I thought leftists were all for the people "challenging authority" .

I guess just not their "authority".

OT. Mark Styen's Website is partially up and running again: [Link: www.marksteyn.com...]

If I had known it would have bugged him this much, I would have made sure our "friendly" neiborhood mutawah would have gotten a Valentines day card during every one of the many happy holidays spent in the Magic Kingdom. Amongst the Westerners, Valentines Day was always a well spent holiday, as was Christmas and Easter. In case they are reading, "Happy Saint Valentines Day" to all my favorite Mutawas at the Black Mosque in Olaya, Riyadh, KSA. On the occaision of the Happy Day, it is sincerely hoped that when you get home after a day of "promoting the virtue and stomping out the vice" your very own Bitch in a Bag, your little Islamic Sweetie, fucks you over but good.

So then, freedom of expression for lefty’s means that they should be able to lie without anyone holding them accountable?
And if we point out their lies, we are McCarthyites?

Wow -the world's leftists have lost their ability to use logic and critical thinking. Lazy.

That video is the "smoking gun"! It must be released. There is little difference between this tape and the Nixon tapes. I wouldn't be surprised if the tape is eventually released with several minutes accidentally blanked by a careless secretary. These "journalists" are nothing more than little Nixons.

#61 Abu Maven wroteth thusly:

All joking aside, CNN's ratings could go way further down if there were a boycott.

Woodrow Wilson (I believe) once said something to the effect that, "There's no point shooting a man who's about to commit suicide."

I'd rather save my ammo for someone who matters.

I don't get this at all. He says: "Within the honest community of bloggers, some of them claimed to be the “sons of the First Amendment”, they just were the sons of Senator McCarthy. "
Well which is it? The "honest community of bloggers" or "the sons of Senator McCarthy"? Ya can't have it both ways, nimrod.
Unless, of course he really meant that there is no "honest community of bloggers". Senator Joe McCarthy was a disgrace to this nation in the way he conducted his hunt for communists, it wasn't, at the time, that there was a hunt, but the way he conducted it was shameful. So if there's no honest community of bloggers, why hasn't the video tape of Jordan's actual words been released? Could it be that there is no honest community of the World Association of Newspapers?

58 jesusland john kerry did this. a tried and true mo. of course, he made them murders before he gave them an out saying that they were just carrying out pentagon orders. a special dispensation. a lot of winking and nodding. kindda like an inside joke - i'm gonna pretend that you're a bad guy to set up a scenerio, but don't worry i'll toss in an escape hatch to move the blame to our intended target.

66 Skippy,

The point would not be to kill CNN, but to get the tape released.

The "plot" and den of weazles thickens.

RELEASE THE TAPE, YOU CHEESE-EATING SURRENDER MONKEY.

You wonder, did we live the same history as these people... "50 years ago, it was enough to be communist to be fired." Oh, but they had only the best of intentions! Gee, if only those nice communists had been given a real chance to explain their message, and a forum beyond most college campuses.

I am proud to have a liberal elitest dweeb like this guy call bloggers sons of McCarthy.

As Ann Coulter demonstrated masterfully in her book Treason, McCarthy, while making several mistakes along the way, was essentially right: there actually were highly placed Communist spies in the American government, mostly in the State Dept.

Millions of Americans still don't know the names Harry Dexter White, Lauchlin Currie, or Alger Hiss.

But due to the smear campaign of the left, everybody knows the name Joe McCarthy.

One of the men mentioned above was a key advisor to Roosevelt that helped set up many of FDR's conversations with 'Uncle Joe'. He was also the man who helped formulate the 'strategy' of giving all of Eastern Europe to the Communists. Ever wonder why after fighting a World War to stop the spread of Facism, the US just turned around and handed over half of Europe to Communism? Now you know.

One of the men mentioned above was a highly placed Communist spy who (hold onto your chair, now) was in charge of the American Government's China policy during the early 1950's.

This person adopted a strategy of steering the Truman administration toward 'agragarian reformer' Mao Tse Tung and away from past staunch ally Chiang Kai-Shek.

Then.........SURPRISE! After Mao's revolution was successful with American help and aid, and Chiang was deposed, it was discovered that Mao was....gasp!.....a Communist!

Since Mao went on to kill about 30 million of his own people over the next 30 years, it was not an inconsequential act for the Soviet agent highly placed in our State Department to fashion national foriegn policy that favored Communism over Democracy.

Then, a few years later, the US State Department once again stood back abandoned a former ally and backed the new revolutionary leader.......in Cuba in Fidel Castro. The brutality of the Bautista regime made this easier to do, for sure, but once again, only AFTER Fidel was firmly in power was it revealed that he was a Communist.

Study the 1950's very, very carefully, for that is the decade in which international Communism made most of it's geographical gains. From about 1946 all the way to the beginning of the Korean War, the US seems paralyzed as they watch Communism expand exponitially.

This was no accident. People very, very high up in American government were intentionally pursuing policies to weaken American interests abroad and oppose democracy while at the same time doing everything they could to strengthen Soviet interests the world over and nurture the spread of Communism.

This subject is deserving of a documentary, and at least several major motion pictures, but they will likely never be made. The MSM and Hollywood has it's McCarthy myth that there never was a genuine 'Red Scare' and the facts would destroy that myth.

I haven't even gone into the fact that many of the People from Hollywood that McCarthy went after were in fact Communists.

I have simply stated that McCarthy's main claim that the American government had been penetrated by highly placed and very influential Soviet agents was completely true.

manofaiki

COLDOC,

I have to agree, I think there is more to this story. Not to sound like a believer in a conspiracy but I really have to question what, as Paul Harvey would say "is the rest of the story?"

"Bloggers didn't fire Jordan. CNN fired Jordan."

--Jeff Jarvis

Pecquerie

Isn't a peckary some kind of wild pig?

#69 Abu Maven wrote:

The point would not be to kill CNN, but to get the tape released.

The tape would be nice, but, in the end, will only confirm what we already know from multiple, corroborated, independent sources: Jordan went way over the line. Multiple, corrorborated, independent sources. You know, the stuff they teach in Intro to Journalism 101.

The bigger and more important issue for the MSM is to stop this maddening return to the days of Hearst and Pullitzer's Yellow Journalism and come back to world where the sky is blue, facts matter, and issues get a fair presentation.

CBS, CNN et al can continue to get their rear-ends handed to them by the blogosphere or they can keep being lemmings stampedingn toward the cliff. It's their choice.

#30 elvis - Idol though she may be to many, Ms. Coulter is quite wrong when she says:"... is a fact that McCarthy doggedly resisted releasing anyone's name to the public. As is usually the case when liberals are the historians, the truth was just the opposite. Blinded by their own loathing, Democrats literally forced McCarthy to name names."
Um, just how did Democrats "literally" force McCarthy" to name names? I've seen most of the "video-tapes" (or whatever they were) at the NYC Library of the Moving Image. The good Senator McCarthy was better at bitter innuendo and
pushing around witnesses to "name the names of people with whom you met" (this was live TV, folks) than anyone I've ever seen or heard of in public life. If not for General Welsh ("At long last, Senator, have you no shame?") and his age, McCarthy would still be at it.

The whole idea of the Left's notion that free speech is somehow conditional was best expressed in a radio interview I heard years ago. A spokesman for TASS, or Radio Moscow, I forget which, was chhallenged by the interviewer about censorship and the lack of freedom of speech in the USSR. The TASS guy answered, in a voice dripping with sincerity and indignation, "You choose to ignore the fact that the people have an important right, the right to be protected from harmful and dangerous ideas. We take our responsibilities in that regard seriously. No Soviet citizen who respects the rights of others has any restriction on his speech." [This is a paraphrase from memory.]

#73 GengisKahn

I am also not into conspiracies but if the guy wasn't let go after it was known that CNN was the propaganda news agency for Saddam, then why did he resign because of us bitching for a few days?

There's more on that tape than his idiot wind.......

It's come down to the Sons of McCathy vs. the MSM Sons of Bitches.

Joe McCarthy and his "witch hunt" was the best thing that ever happened to the Left. Question their truthfulness, their integrity or their biases and you're a "son of McCarthy" as they assume the cloak of political martyrdom.

It's simple, relase the tape, let's see who's telling the truth

#72 Manofaiki

I agree.
Excellent post.

I find VERY amusing that the left goes on with the "MCcarthyism" label in a Country in which the commies have CONQUERED nearly all the media and nearly all the universities.

And that as happened exactly because the true extent of the communist subversion has never been revealed, THANKS to the attacks of the media to Sen. McCarthy.

#61 Abu Maven - While I usually enjoy and frequently agree with many of your posts, you're WAY off base with this one; I wouldn't accept support from Kos or his supporters for anything. In my opinion, Kos and his ilk are a part of the problem for which we are groping (with increasing success) for answers.
Dear Kos: "Fuck 'em"

PIMF

That HAS happened

#79 BabbaZee

There's more on that tape than his idiot wind.......

What I think CNN is desperate to avoid is any discussion of why Jordan would think that way. I believe that he thinks that way because he KNOWS that CNN is on the other side. That they want a US defeat in Iraq, that they have known about terrorist's plans and not told the US military about them. etc.

#84 [Engineer]

could be......

#75 LOL! Yep, and we hunt them and eat down here in Jesusland!

Maybe (tr)Eason Jordan can get together with NY Times' Howell Raines and the BBC's Greg Dyke' and start a club for "Jackasses who lost elite MSM jobs for being Lying Sacks of Shit"

He's complaining about the blogs speaking up? Why is he so against the freedom of speech? Sounds like a son of McCarthy to me.

Also, them pecary beasts stink to high heaven. Sounds more and more like a Frenchman all the time.

82 realwest,

I see it slightly differently. If Kos joins, then great -- it shows that despite our differences, we can all agree that it's not okay to smear our soldiers. If we joined forces, there is no doubt the tape would be released.

Equally importantly, if Kos does not join, it puts him in the uncomfortable position of defending those who falsely charge our soldiers with murder.

#72 manofaiki 2/13/2005 09:49AM PST

This subject is deserving of a documentary, and at least several major motion pictures, but they will likely never be made. The MSM and Hollywood has it's McCarthy myth that there never was a genuine 'Red Scare' and the facts would destroy that myth.

Don't hold your breath on that one. A film takes an honest contextual look at Joe McCarthy. It'll never happen. Hollywood is probably too busy making their 116th documentary/motion picture about the dreaded black list with Alec Baldwin doing the voice-over no doubt.

Fifty years ago, it was enough to be communist to be fired

I like to remind everybody that the Rosenbergs DID in fact gave to the Soviet Union the nuclear secrets of our Country and the left organized MASS DEMONSTRATIONS of millions of people to defend them, asserting their innocence, against all the evidence.

But when they talk today, they want to build the MYTH of a time in which they were the poor victims.

Without the Rosenbergs, without the USSR with nukes for another twenty years, the destiny of HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of people around the world would have been different.

Millions have died because of the Rosenbergs.

Millions have marched to defend them.

The TREASON fo America by the left has been enormous then, it is enormous today.

Some perrenial children never learn that they are full of crap.

As my Old Dad warned me years ago, never shit an old shitter.

Half of the MSM are walking around with there wangers out and don't know it.

Sad, pathetic, but pretty funny.

I sent this nimrod an email. I am tried of these people acting like they can say whatever they want and the peasants are just supposed to believe their schtick. Jordan would not have been fired if he could back up his claims.

Guys like this are like the old witch hunters of centuries past and their Satan is Bush. Anything they can do to discredit him or his policies is ok fine. Even if it means trashing a bunch of guys who are not allowed the oppurtunity to defend themselves.

#93 Poitiers-Lepanto

here here. The Rosenbergs and their self loathing Uncle Chom supporters are from the lost tribe that shoulda stayed lost! ;-)

If you want to see how far, how lowthe left MSM's gotten, checkout today's (Sunday Feb 13th) Atlanta Journal Constitution Editorial Page.

Editorial "Bush Doctrine gets a Nuclear Reaction" -"President's tough talk boomerangs, making regimes in North Korea, Iran more dangerous."

For 'equal time and a differenct perspective, the editiors have used an article from North Koreas news agency - "US stand shows its wicked nature" - GOT THAT - NORTH KOREA PROPOGANDA IS USED FOR PERSPECTIVE! And they wonder why subscriotions are down?

How low is that for balanced news?

song_and_dance_man wrote:

At least we're not called Nazis. I suppose thats next.

Next? In the last few years I've been called (in no particular order):

Nazi
Zionazi
Adolf Hitler and Eva Braun!
A vicious killer monkey

...and many other epithets from the febrile minds of the LGF haters.

BTW wasn't it Eason Jordan that was making the damaging unsubstantiated accusations? Wasn't it Eason Jordan that without evidence was implicitly branding US military personnel with the label of fascist?

Vicious Killer Monkey kinda has a ring to it - LOL!
I get called zionazi frequently enough for me to start answering to it - and that's just my relatives......

The rhetoric will become increasingly shrill as the walls of the keep continue to crumble. Let's not forget that the MSM fiefdoms have gone unchallenged ... ever. Their battles have always been essentially fraternal and internal and, on occasion, with the government regarding the extent of their power ... this is the first external challenge from a competing entity that they have ever faced and the MSM doesn't know how to adapt or react (just look at the bizarre head in the sand fiasco that was the reaction to the Dan Rather - false memos episode). They are not adapting or reacting ... they are panicking and lashing like a bald bear cornered by a swarm of bees. In the end, this will be good for the MSM as the blogosphere forces it (or what is finally left of it), to try to have some honesty and integrity.

#91 Abu Maven - I think sometimes I'm too subtle for my own good and made the assumption that you had heard Kos'
"Fuck 'Em" line when those 5 American civilian workers were ambushed outside Fallujah, and their burning bodies (one was supposedly still alive) were hung from a bridge nearby. We here at LGF were astonished and extremely angry that the US didn't send in the Marines stationed around Fallujah to recover those bodies for DAYS. (We were not, I have it on EXCELLENT authority nearly as ANGRY as the Marines). Kos basically said: Those civilian contractors "guarding a food convoy" were in fact mercenaries and "Fuck 'Em".
There is absolutely NOTHING Kos could do to make up for that comment. Not even meeting me in the proverbial dark alley (or well lit, for all I care) one on one. As far as I'm concerned, there is no "second" chance for anyone who would react that way EVEN IF THEY WERE MERCENARIES.
BTW - during the campaign, Kerry made some specious remarks (did he ever make any other kind?!) about how the US should NOT have use local Afghani Warlords and just used US Troops, cause if we had, we'd have caught bin Laden (ignoring the extremely heavier US casualties we would have had, didn't know the terrain etc.) - I believe that "thought" was originated by Kos, or one of his kind and endorsed by Kos.
That's why I say to Kos: "Fuck You".

Nk has painted itself into a corner, and when they try to step out of it they are going to be covered with wet paint, hey Iran are you listening? we are watching you too. (from 60k feet above)!

Cowards, hypocrates, liars are Jordan and the journalists at the davos meeting. I will apologize if proven wrong, sooo....RELEASE THE TAPE.

#102 realwest
I agree.
I love your consistency, btw.
:-)

In the ever expanding definitions of everything that is a mainstay of the left if one was to state that Joe Stalin was a communist that person would be guilty of McCarthyism.

#93 Poitiers-Lepanto - What you said. In spades.

Meanwhile, according to the Guardian (Observer), the Empire has struck back:
(I posted this while everyone was still sleeping, so I'll repost it here)

Bloggers get their claws into Talon

Sunday February 13, 2005
The Observer

In America's battle of the bloggers, the right has long held the upper hand. Beginning with internet gossip hound Matt Drudge and his breaking of the Monica Lewinsky scandal, Republican-friendly bloggers have easily beaten their lefty opponents.

Perhaps their greatest triumph was the swift attack that right-wing websites mounted on documents used in last year's CBS story about President Bush's national guard service. With a geeky knowledge of typefaces, they poured enough doubt on the piece to eventually see four CBS hacks lose their jobs and to tarnish the reputation of legendary anchor Dan Rather.

But now the left has struck back. Last week, pro-Democrat websites took aim at a Republican target - and actually managed to hit it. An intense campaign, involving web watchdog Media Matters for America and a host of political blogs, has resulted in the resignation of Jeff Gannon, a White House correspondent for the conservative Talon News. The result was hailed on the internet as a victory for liberalism.

[Link: observer.guardian.co.uk...]

McCarthy was right.

102 realwest,

I am aware of the "Screw 'em" comment. I agree it was horrendous.

By the way, isn't it ironic that Kerry was against "outsourcing" the Afghan war, but in favor of "outsourcing" the Iraq war?

Behind every "vicious killer monkey" lurks an organ grinder with even darker ambitions. Who was grinding Eason Jordan's organ?

#105 J.D. - Thanks, I think. What do you mean consistency?
The I hate Kos or the alley?

#93 Poitiers-Lepanto

Well put. The nuclear arms race, global proliferation, and the nuclear terror sword which hangs over all our heads, can be directly linked to two Leftist-Communist traitors who are still defended by raging moonbats.

To the best of my recollection, I have read nothing but people calling for Jordan to either "put up or shut up". If he has evidence of the veracity of his allegations bring it forward so it can be investigated and prosecuted if it is warranted. He never did so.
Like I said on my own blog, release the video or shut up. He either said it or he didn't, but if you act like you're hiding something you shouldn't be too upset if people treat you appropriately.

Yet another example of how insane the Left has become. Calls to "put up or shut up" are labeled McCarthyism. Who was brought down because he, like Eason Jordan, began to make claims that he could not support with facts.

Bertrand Pecquerie defends the indefensible. When journalists lie they must make a full confession. Half-stepping, as Eason Jordan did, is not sufficient. Because of the enormous power the MSM has it is imperative that when they do make mistakes, or out right lie, that the matter be dealt with completely and openly. Since Jordan did not do this he must pay the harshest penalty....loss of position and power.

#72 manofaiki

Also well put. {LGF} Reading the posts here is a real pleasure every day.

"Within the honest community of bloggers, some of them claimed to be the "sons of the First Amendment", they just were the sons of Senator McCarthy. And this is very worrying to see this new wedding between self-proclaimed citizen's media and maintstream [sic] journalists scalps' [sic] hunters.."

Mr. Pecquerie is in serious need of a competent editor.

#93 — The Rosenbergs did not just pass on nuclear secrets. They were also implicated in transferring American aerospace technology to the Soviets.

There is nothing theoretical or potential about the harm the Rosenbergs did to this country. American men died in the skies over Korea because of the Rosenbergs.

#112 realwest

There is absolutely NOTHING Kos could do to make up for that comment.

Kos.
That comment will haunt him for all eternity.

#110 Abu Maven - boy is my face red. You're correct he said "screw 'em" Not "Fuck 'em. But I'm not changing my response to Kos: Fuck You.
Yeah, Kerry don't outsource Afghanistan, do outsource Iraq. The difference being that Afghani Warlords and their "troops" were proven, capable fighters and the Iraqi's were still astonished at being given their freedom (which is why SO MANY of the "insurgents" in Iraq are Arabs and other Al-Quaeda murderers and why we really are pissed off at Syria for letting them headquarter, organize train and leave from Syria to kill Americans. I think Syria should be next, btw, not Iran; that would give Iraq a genuine hope for a WORKING democracy.

77- Realwest,
Again from *Treason, p. 118

"...Even the documentary of the hearings, Point of Order, cannot obscure the truth. The documentary shows 97 minutes of the hearings, cut and edited down from 188 hours of tape to make Mccarthy look like a monkey. People know they are supposed to hate McCarthy, so they do, even when the facts in front of them show nothing hateful. After a solid night of drinking, McCarthy still was never at a loss for a clever comeback. When he got the better of Welch, Welch pouted and cried.
Two other incidents from the Army-McCarthy hearings help illustrate what liberals mean when they say McCarthy trampled human decency and crushed the human spirit. First, McCarthy refused to reveal his sources. He had produced an outline of a letter from J. Edgar Hoover to the Army alerting them to the Communist infiltration at Fort Monmouth. The Democrats couldn't have cared less about Communists in the army. As with Linda Tripp, they simply wanted to prove that the manner by which a Republican had exposed liberals had broke some law. Phony folksy country lawyer Joe Welsh demanded that McCarthy reveal his source's name. Far from unreasonable, McCarthy described his source generally as someone from Army intelligence, but refused to give up the name. As McCarthy correctly said, no government whistleblower would ever step forward if his confidence could not be kept. Liberals were indignant that McCarthy insisted on protecting his sources. ..."

*#33

[Sorry that I'm such a slow typist.]

#119 J.D.

Kos.
That comment will haunt him for all eternity.

And rightly so.

Okay, who didn't think this was going to happen? "The resignation of Mr. Jordan sends a chilling effect to the cause of freedom of the press" blah blah blah. We've all seen it a million times.

Journalists would cheer in the streets if Bill O'Reilly or Rush Limbaugh were to resign. When it's one of their own, it's always a bad, bad thing.

Release the tape!

#118 #121

I have no problem with McCarthy. People today forget that the cold war of his time was a war.

What's sad is that when you see the confirmation hearings of peolple like Bork, Thomas, Pickering and Rice, what the left is doing today is far worse then any thing the Senator from Wisconsin was alledged to have done.

When Pickering, the man who risked his and his family's lives by going after the KKK, had to sit there and be called a racist by dumbasses like Senator Feingold of Wisconsin........

I have a real problem with the "the boy who cried wolf" phenomenon. Labeling people as Nazis or witch hunting McCarthyites is ignorant and lazy.

However the real damage is the denial of the real monsters. That's why the term "Islamofascists" is correct.

For mr. Pcequerie: projection is a clever but hideous way to divert attention precisely where it needs to be. You sir are the real son of McCarthy.

#121 elvis - no need to apologize for being a slow typist; there have been several times when I wished I typed slower and thought faster.
As to your comment, we only have Ms. Coulter word that the 188 minutes cut to 97 was done to make McCarthy look like the disgraceful pos he was. I SAW and HEARD him badgering - I mean really jumping up and down on people to "name the names of the people you know blah blah blah." If he made General Welch "pout and cried" then I think she's full of shit (my personal apologies, I really do like Ms. Coulter). I never saw a braver man say, as General Welch did: "At long last,
Senator, have you no shame" at which point Robert Kennedy
(who was right in back of the Senator) turned his head and McCarthy had no comeback.
His televised "hearings" ended VERY SHORTLY thereafter.
I'm not saying McCarthy was wrong to ferret out commie mf's; I'm saying he deliberately did it in a way that was certain to embarrass and hurt INNOCENT people purely for political gain.
I think it's called demagoguery. I am a Son of Liberty, not McCarthy and I resent the implication that I am the latter by that French Poodle.

{torches} Bring out the tapes! {torches}

126 smartalice - based on your post, I think you've chosen a truly appropriate nic! Very fine post indeed.

Why hide the tape, CNN?

Oh, and McCarthy was right:

Nova (PBS Television)
February 5, 2002

Secrets, Lies and Atomic Spies

In 1995, the U.S. National Security Agency broke a half century of silence by releasing translations of Soviet cables decrypted back in the 1940s by the Venona Project. Venona was a top-secret U.S. effort to gather and decrypt messages sent in the 1940s by agents of what is now called the KGB and the GRU, the Soviet military intelligence agency. The cables revealed the identities of numerous Americans who were spies for the Soviet Union.

Ultimately the code breakers found cover names for more than 300 Americans who spied for the Soviets in World War Two.

One who had the cover name "Quantum," provided the Soviets at a very early stage, the actual scientific formula for separating U-235 from U-238, which is a very key step in developing a working atomic bomb.

American counterintelligence was able to identify only about 100 of these Soviet agents.

But even this incomplete list is remarkable: Harry Dexter White, Assistant Secretary of the Treasury, cover name "Lawyer;" Larry Duggan, Chief of the Division of American Republics at the State Department, cover name "Prince;" Lauchlin Currie, Senior Administrative Assistant to President Roosevelt, cover name "Page."

There was not a single agency of the American government that the Soviets had not infiltrated, ranging from the OSS--the forerunner of the CIA--to the Justice Department, to the Treasury Department, to the State Department, to all of the wartime defense agencies.

[Link: www.pbs.org...]

A Hollywood movie covering the Venona Project will be released shortly -- NOT.
 

OT? Sort of, yes and no.
The Law of the Blogger

Blog daily from news-tip and hat-tip; blog long, but blog not too deep;
And remember the Pundit's for linking, and forget not that he has to sleep.

The new blog may free flame the Jordan, but, Cub, when thy archives have grown,
Remember the Big Blogs are hunters -- go forth and get scoops of thine own.

Go read the whole thing. It's great.

Norwegian Kaffir (#1, 4)

Thanks for the report on slavery. I need to take some of this research to web forums outside the blogs. People need to see the true face of Islam. Few people know how extensive slavery is in the Muslim world. It runs all through the Arab world. Once they also see how it is sanctioned by many leading Muslim clerics and is in the Koran, they will understand its not just something confined to specific tribes or is largely in the past, but part of a continuing legacy of Islam that once ran across the continent of Africa, as slaves were marched for thousands of miles into the Arab north.

You requested some book titles on media. They tend to break down into issues of corporate influence, sensationalism for ratings, and leftwing bias. Bias is by far the biggest and most challenging problem, and my list reflects those titles.

Arrogance: Rescuing America from the Media Elite (2003)
Bernard Goldberg

Bias (2002) Benard Goldberg

Breaking the News: How the Media Undermine American
Democracy (1997) James Fallows

Coloring the News: How Crusading for Diversity Has
Corrupted American Journalism (2001) William McGowan

Death by Entertainment: How the Media Manipulates the
Masses

If it Bleeds, It Leads by Matthew Kerbel [local news]

Into the Buzzsaw: Leading Journalists Expose the Myth of a
Free Press (2002) Kristina Borgesson, ed.

Journalistic Fraud: How the New York Times Distorts the
News and Why It Can No Longer Be Trusted (2003)

The Media Monopoly (2000) [6th ed.] Ben Bagdakian

Media Virus: Hidden Agendas in Popular Culture (1993)
Douglas Rushkoff

The News About the News: American Journalism in Peril
(2002) Leonard Downie, Jr.

Propaganda and Persuasion (1999) Garth Javett, et al

Slander (2002) Ann Coulter

Spin Sisters (2004) Myrna Blyth [on womens' mags.]

Weapons of Mass Distortion: The Coming Meltdown of Liberal
Media (2004) Brent Bozell

#127 Realwest

Coulter shows that McCarthy KNEW, but COULD NOT REVEAL, that the investigations (now known as, if I am not mistaken, as the Venona Papers) by a secret group of the FBI had indeed FOUND a wide conspiracy of commies that was poisoning the Army, the Country, the highest levels of the Administration.

In fact he could not, because of the sheer strength of the demonrats opposition, compel people to talk and arrive to reveal the conspiracy in a FORMALLY legal way.

This explains perfectly his rage.

It's the rage of a righteous man who has fallen into a FORMAL trap and can't say the truth because by saying it he would violate a secret of the utmost importance.
He could have answered to the aggression that makes you reflect about the whole case, but only by betraying the Agents who were the LAST line of defense of the Country.
In fact HE has been the WITCH and the demonrats have burned him.

Yesterday I posted something about the fact that IT IS ABSOLUTELY funny that in a Country like ours, with radical leftists everywhere in the media and in the universities, we talk about Sen. McCarthy as a kind of Torquemada, when in fact the commies DID succeed in at least half of their plan !

It was a harsh time, like today, and the appearances must not make you forget the substance of the problem :(yesterday like today) there ARE people with an agenda (eg, openly declared by Ward Churchill)...TO DESTROY AMERICA.

I e-mailed the following to Bertrand Pecquerie at (bpecquerie@wan.asso.fr) regarding his comments regarding Eason Jordan and the blogosphere

Sir,
For many years I have been concerned about the concept of checks and balances as it relates to the news media. The adage “absolute power corrupts absolutely” is a paradigm that applies to all foci of power. The main stream media is no exception.
For years now, I have seen the MSM corrupt itself, growing into its self appointed role of the unelected conscience of society. I have seen it employ falsified material to sensationalize an assertion, I have seen it select the agenda it wishes to pursue, I have seen it employ innuendo to support its position. I have seen its irrelevance grow as the result of its abrogation of responsibility, that being, the accurate dissemination of factual data. It has become a messenger of doom and gloom, negative vision and sensationalism.
The arrogance of the MSM, as demonstrated by Dan Rather claiming that the story is true even if the evidence is forged, in my mind, is an excess that cannot be abided. For many years I have asserted that one of the greatest threats to a free society is an irresponsible press. I have seen that threat grow.
Now, there is hope. I see it in the phenomenon of the Pajamaheden, the common ordinary people on the internet blogosphere. No longer may MSM journalists make unsupported assertions with Ivory Tower impunity. The people you serve now have the ability, for the first time in history, to vet and challenge the MSM.
This phenomena will not fade away. It will grow and expand. The check to balance the MSM bas seen its birth.
I read your piece on Eason Jordan defending his comments and assaulting the bloggers who brought about his demise. The conscience of the MSM has come into being with the advent of the blogosphere and you have to make a choice. You can continue to reside in your Ivory Tower, breeding distrust and disbelief, or you can return to the role intended for the media – the presentation of untainted, unspun factual information.
The blogosphere is a tsunami poised to break upon the MSM when it presumes to speak for the people it serves but instead only furthers its’ own illicit agenda. That function is allocated to our elected leaders, not the media. It is your function to serve the people, not lead them.

oh yeah, and another thing....compare the "travesties" of McCarthy to some real witch hunts---like the Stalinist Purges or Mao's Cultural Revolution, even the Khmer Rouge. Now those were the good ole days of pure evil...

And as for the Nazis, well, we have seen nothing like it in all our 229 years.

I just wish more people knew even a minute amount of history. All people, everywhere. Sigh.

February 13, 2005
Fight Over Flight
Staying Power
by Victor Davis Hanson

With elections and freedom accorded to the Shia and the Kurds, we must renew, not disavow, our efforts to help democratize the Middle East. Few here or abroad appreciate the implications of making a Kurd or a Shia equal to a Sunni. We are witnessing a monumental U.S. commitment to the perennial underclass of the Middle East, and such idealism should be appreciated for what it is-- one of the most radical social and cultural upheavals since the American-sponsored emancipation of women in postwar Japan or our own civil rights movement of the 1960s.

We must cease to envision Iraq as an amazing three-week victory that has a thousand fathers, followed by an orphaned and messy reconstruction, as once-zealous hawks have bailed from the enterprise with the easy excuse that the lapses of Donald Rumsfeld, L. Paul Bremer, or "the Pentagon" mean that Iraqi democracy no longer warrants their principled support--as if victory in war were not always a matter of those who make the fewest errors rather than no errors at all. The truth is--and always was--that the war against Saddam and the ensuing efforts to rid Iraq of Baathists and Islamists exist on a continuum and must be seen in a larger historical context of defeating a fascist government, occupying a country of 26 million in the heart of the ancient caliphate, and then fostering democratic government where it has no history.

The loss so far of more than 1,100 combat dead is tragic, but, by historical standards of comparable operations, the U.S. achievement has been nothing short of miraculous. Our aggregate combat fatalities after 22 months in Iraq were often exceeded in single months during the Vietnam war or a single day at Normandy, in the Bulge--or on September 11. Such reckoning may seem callous, but it is the terrible arithmetic of war--and the United States should not delude itself: This is a real war.

oops...forgot to add Mr. Pecqueries countries flirt with McCarthyism--the Reign of Terror---and the Vichy. Now that is a lot to be ashamed of. Freud would be so proud.

Ha ha

I am reading all the posts of this thread and I think that the leftists now realize that ANYTHING they say turns against them.

They say "McCarthy" and here we go with a post-grad level course on the history of the States in the last sixty years that can burn the demonrats like a very very very hot sun.

It's becoming a nightmare for them, and extremely interesting for all of us who try to find the truth.

This AMERICAN (and international ) Revolution is absolutely WONDERFUL !

PAJAMARINES, WE ROCK !

Norwegian Kafir,

Some of the books I previously listed refer to or contain some mention or discussion of blogs, like in Bozell's. Here are a few titles more specific to blogs and big media:

1) Blog: Understanding the Information Revolution That's
Changing Your World by Hugh Hewitt

2) We've Got Blog: How Weblogs are Changing Our Culture (2002)

3) We the Media (2004) Dan Gillmor

I've not looked at these, but I suspect Hewitt's may be closest to what you want. He understands blogs and media bias as well as anyone.

If not for General Welsh ("At long last, Senator, have you no shame?") and his age, McCarthy would still be at it.

So goes the myth, created by decades of liberal indoctrination in our nation's schools, movies, etc.

Here's what actually occurred at this "defining moment":

Welch's "have you no decency" oration came at the conclusion of his two-hour harangue of Roy Cohn.  Welch sarcastically asked Cohn to give him the names of all communists "loose today."  He continued to taunt Cohn, "Whenever you learn of one from now on, Mr. Cohn, I beg of you, will you tell somebody about them quick?"  Welch continued, "I don't want the sun to go down while they are still out there, if we can get them out."  Again and again, Welch told Cohn to "tell them tonight" about any communists, so that FBI surveillance can begin "by sundown tomorrow night."  Welch added one final jab to Cohn, "May I add my small voice, sir, and say whenever you know about a subversive or a communist spy, please hurry.  Will you remember those words?"

After two hours of this nonsense, McCarthy finally stepped in and stated that if Mr. Welch had "such a great desire to know where anyone is located who may be serving the communist cause, we should just call your attention to the fact that Mr. Fisher, who is still in your law firm today, whom you asked to have down here looking over secret and classified material, is a member of an organization, not named by me but named by the Attorney General, I quote this verbatim, as 'the legal bulwark of the communist party.'  He belonged to that for a sizable number of years, according to his own admission, and he belonged to it long after it had been exposed as the legal arm of the communist party.  I have hesitated bringing that up, but I have been rather bored with your phony requests to Mr. Cohn here that he personally get every communist out of the government before sundown. Therefore, we will give you information about the man in your own organization."

Welch replied with the following -- repeated 100% of the time without context by liberal educators and liberal media: "Until this moment, Senator, I think I never really gauged your cruelty or your recklessness.  Let us not assassinate this lad [Fred Fisher] further, Senator.  You have done enough.  Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last?  Have you no sense of decency?"

Welch's response to McCarthy was even more absurd when one considers only two months earlier The New York Times ran a story about Fred Fisher's removal from Welch's team because of Fisher's association with the National Lawyers Guild, "the legal bulwark of the communist party," in the words of the US Attorney General Brownell.

Was Fred Fisher hurt or "assassinated" by the incident?  Not at all.  He became a partner in Welch's Boston law firm, Hale and Dorr, and was later elected president of the Massachusetts Bar Association.

You can read further about this event in book "The Army-McCarthy Hearings, 1954" by Robert D. Marcus and Anthony Marcus.

You have been duped by decades of lies by liberal textbooks, liberal professors, and liberal media -- all of which demonize McCarthy.

McCarthy's mission was to keep security risks out of the US government, which was indeed infiltrated with Soviet agents at the highest levels (see posting #130).
 

Embermage #24 - re: Torquemada

No-o-o-body expects the Spanish Inquisition!

#138 Poiters-Lepanto

great post!

Truth...what a lovely word but so misused. And to think to a postmodernist it isn't even a "real" concept.

As far as I am concerned postmodernist failed history so their distrust of facts is pure rationalization for sucking at history 101.

Realwest-
Joe McCarthy, a POS? Compared to what, commies? I have to shovel some shi, er snow now, but I'll be back.

Haven't read through the thread yet. But this sounds like a standard screed by the Left. People who oppose them are mean, evil, bigoted hate mongers. We are either racists or if as in this case the person in question is white then we are the son of Tailgunner Joe.
They make no arguments refuting the evidence presented. They merely hurl accusations. Racist, nazi or in the case McCarthyism. By doing that they maintain their superiority over us without having to defend their untenable positions.
The MSM deserves to go down in flames.

I don't know if any of you are still on this thread...

I am fairly young and reading Mona Charen's Useful Idiots opened my eyes to a lot.
The charge of McCartyism is the same device as the charge of racism now, the left uses it to stop all debate. You are a bigot is you mention Islam or criticize a Democrat.

I just got it for Xmas and I found the fact that they said that Vietnam was for oil incredibly hilarious.

Release the tapes, show me I am a "baseless McCarthyite"....

pretty funny when it was their blue-eyed boy Billy Clinton being asked "hard questions" they ignored them and did not report on them because, "no serious people question Clinton policies..."

# 146 sven10077

On Friday night I got "what serious people still questions John Kerry's war record?"

people not seriously in need of pschotherapy!

#142 SmartAlice

As far as I am concerned postmodernist failed history so their distrust of facts is pure rationalization for sucking at history 101

Well, the far left thinkers who invented the whole "postmodernist" joke were the same who, years before, had supported the most horrific "experiments" of the commies around the world. I usually quote Chomsky has having said that the killing fields of Cambodia were "the most advanced experiment in society"...

When they realized that they GOT all wrong...they decided that truth MUST not exist.

Kinda of the the old fable of the fox and the grapes, she can't reach them, she goes away saying "they are not ripe, anyway".

Childish, if they had not caused so many tragedies.

There must be NO truth, otherwise they would be called to answer about their intellectual, and sometimes more than intellectual, crimes.

The National Security Agency has made the Venona Project decrypts, which were declassified in 1995, available online:

[Link: www.nsa.gov...]

McCarthy was right.
 

#149 William

Precious linky.
Thank you very much.

Poor lefties. Fifty years to conquer media and schools ...then the pajamarines ruin the whole thing with their funny passion for Truth and Liberty...

I've heard it said about McCarthy that although there weren't communists in every closet, they were there in several closets.

Funny thing about those wacky commies and records that became available after the collapse of the Soviet Union. We now know the the Farmer-Labor party of Minnesota was funded by Stalin, the biggest killer in the history of the world (or so). It is now part of the Democratic-Farmer-Labor party. Do I hear reparations?

If a major insurance company has to pay our millions (can't remember which one, but NRO had it this past week) because one of their predecessors insured a plantation in the 1830's, then shouldn't the Democratic National Committee pay the victims of communism? Those that worked in slave labor? The Dems did profit from Stalin's communist system.

Freedom from Accountability

"I'm no rights expert but I think freedom of expression means we can say what we want without fear of persecution from the state. It doesn't mean we can say what we want without fear of any consequences whatsoever. I'm free to walk into my boss' office and call him an a*% hole, but I better be prepared to look for a new job.

Likewise, the head of the most powerful news organization in the World is "free" to claim that US troops murder journalists, but he better be able to back up the story or else face the music. It's not called McCarthyism, its called accountability. I suggest the MSM get familiar with these concepts pretty quick, 'cause it's a whole new media world they're living in."

Freedom from Accountability

#145 Susanita

they said that Vietnam was for oil

NOW, THAT IS DERANGED !

It's not a joke, isn't it ?

#148 Poitiers-Lepanto

Strange that they are like that but then call themselves "the reality based community"

BTW Is Lepanto the battle that Cervantes was captured in?

#153 Poitiers Lepanto

No, I will find the quote in the book. I don't know if I can find a link.

Funny, I was just asking you a question while you were posting.

Wait. If the U.S. military targeted journalists, that would not harm CNN since they don't have any. See here

#153 on oil. I've heard it said by LLL's that we invaded Afghanistan for oil.

#152 One take on this that made his remarks especially bad, and why they won't release the tape, is because of who his audience was and their reaction to it. He told this to America haters and they loved it. He didn't say this on Meet the Press or to Britt Hume.

He was trying to (or so it appears to those of us on the right) stir up anti-American feelings to a receptive crowd.

they just were the sons of Senator McCarthy

The CIA began releasing in 1995 decoded cables between the Soviet Union and the U.S. Soviet Embassy intercepted from the early '40s onward. The Venona Project exhonerated Senator Joseph McCarthy's villified attempts to root out very real Communist infiltration in the highest levels of our government. Attempts demonized, wrongly discredited and subsequently dismissed as "witch hunts" by the Mainstream Media no doubt lessening the intelligence services' ability to protect all of us against Soviet espionage.

I take it as a high compliment to be labelled a "McCarthyite" and wish he were around to pursue those who facilitated the wholesaleing of nearly all of our ballistic missile and nuclear warhead designs to the Chinese Communists during the Clinton Administration.

BTW, the code name for Julius Rosenberg (atomic spy put to death) was LIBERAL.

The amazing thing is that in the comments section of Bertrand Pecquerie's rant, 100% anti-Eason.

#154 Susanita

BTW Is Lepanto the battle that Cervantes was captured in?

SHAME on me: I don't know.
I have to google Cervantes.

/red, red, redder

#154 Susanita

Nope, he was wounded at Lepanto, but was captured by the muslims after some more battles, when returning home by sea.

XVI century, muslim pirates enslaving people.

Strange, it sounds familiar...

Ouch. My head hurts.

Smearing US troops with unsubstantiated accusations of targeting journalists is not McCarthyism? But reporting this is? Like I said, Ouch.

What's the deal? Is this the SMDT?

On a more serious note, speaking of McCarthy, I noted a while back, an attempt by my new-found right-wing brethren, at 'image rehabilitation' on Tail-Gunner Joe.... say it ain't so? I mean, some people were trying to say that McCarthy himself was the 'victim' of vicious smearing by the Left, and he was really a good guy and all, I dunno...

All this spin. Where's O'Liely when you need him.

My head still hurts. Worse now maybe. THanks a lot.

#162 Totally Berserk

Smearing US troops with unsubstantiated accusations of targeting journalists is not McCarthyism? But reporting this is? Like I said, Ouch.

Think about it: McCarthy was right. Does it make sense now?

I can't find that book anywhere in my house right now. I guess spring cleaning is going to start in Feb.

#158 Sol Roth

BTW, the code name for Julius Rosenberg (atomic spy put to death) was LIBERAL.

priceless.

And Poitiers-Lepanto...
Funny how everything seems to repeat. If you haven't read Useful Idiots check it out. It was amazing how you can take the quotes of libs then and just switch Reagan to Bush and Russia to Iraq and leave the rest.

Maybe we need a blog song to go with our united workers front.

#164 Susanita

Unluckily for me, at nearly fifty years of age, I know that without reading anything about it in books, I just remember it !

But it is worth noting that the repeated mistakes of the far left in the last one hundred years are the reason for their pushing our schools down the drain: they don't want young people to learn and compare and notice what has happened.

Funny how everything seems to repeat. If you haven't read Useful Idiots check it out. It was amazing how you can take the quotes of libs then and just switch Reagan to Bush and Russia to Iraq and leave the rest.

I'm old enough now where I see that also. I was in high school and college during Reagan's time. I still remember arguing in the dorms when the professors told the students that "we are knee-deep in Vietnam" as far as Central America goes. And the absolute hate they had for Reagan.

You see the same thing with Senior-Americans. Isn't interesting how every 2 years we hear about how the Republicans want the old folks to eat dog food.

#138 .

They say "McCarthy" and here we go with a post-grad level course on the history of the States in the last sixty years that can burn the demonrats like a very very very hot sun.

One of the problems I have in debating the left is their lack of knowledge of history. I'm not saying our side knows all and is right 100% of the time.

But when they don't know basic facts, it's hard to debate.

How do you intelligently debate someone who's arguments are:

Bush = Hitler
Big oil controls Republicans
Republicans want to starve the poor
If the US didn't start wars, the whole world would be fine
Communism wasn't so bad
Fox News is run by right wing fanatics

Ok, more about Jeff Gannon, after having googled it:

The biggest smoking guns are:

1. The White House gave him documents on Valerie Plame
2. The White House simply planted Gannon in the press pool and/or planted questions to him

So far we have 2 hard-left Dems calling for investigation on #1. Developing....

#167 Poitiers Lepanto
Please forgive my youthful ignorance.
Its amazing what I didn't learn in school. The first time I ever heard the truth about Vietnam was because of the Swift Boat Veterans! I am nearly 30!
You never get that far in any basic history course.

I can forgive college kids but I don't get how all these people like Sen Kennedy have any credibilty anymore. Is everyone senile?

#172 Susanita

You have nothing to apologize for.

Is everyone senile?

Nope, these are the results of propaganda.
Propaganda is not what you are told but what you are NOT told.

Bad schools, bad media, every day, for a whole life, and you get the results that you can observe at Democratic Underground and in other places like that.

backing kerry and kennedy is kindda like playing the slots. some people recognize them to be the loosers they are [even if you win a little] and walk away. others recognize them as loosers, but think they'll pay off and play them until the money runs out. they feel that they have too much invested.

Free Lynne Stewart
Free Zacarias Moussaoui
Free Huey
Free the Rosenbergs

All warriors for the cause of bringing down the evil McCarthyist empire.

/ typed while sipping a double latte doing an Internet search on the evils of America

The defense of Easton Jordan has many parallels to those running to defend Ward Churchill hiding under a thin veil of “free speech.” If anyone has dropped in from the other side to see who these “lynch mob,” “right-wingers” and “(insert 1 of 50 known moonbat responses here)” are planning to take down next simply for speaking freely—well you’ve come to the wrong place. Not only do most of us believe firmly in the first amendment, we also believe people like Jordan and Churchill have every right to say anything they please, all we strive for is accountability. The first amendment gives citizens the right to not be persecuted for their speech or views—it doesn’t protect them from any repercussions within society. If Mr. Churchill was teaching his class about the evil black man and regularly making comments offensive to both the black community and the rest of the nation (sans the racist population) would he still receive a freedom of speech defense? Would there even be a question about him retaining employment (Julian Bond and ‘niggardly’ anyone?)? If Easton had stood on the same stage and made outrageous, unsubstantiated accusations about the Arab world would he still be welcomed under the seemingly all-encompassing banner of free speech? The defense of these two men, particularly when the transcript and video of Mr. Jordan has not been made available, is preposterous. Face up to the fact that members of society cannot run around saying anything they please without any accountability for their words.

#176 No User

Can I get an AMEN?!

scrappleface has addressed this topic:

Eason Jordan Quits, Bloggers Mull Next Target
by Scott Ott
(2005-02-11) -- Even as embattled CNN chief news executive Eason Jordan announced his 'resignation' tonight, the ad hoc consortium of unedited writers known as the blogosphere met online to discuss which journalist should be the next to fall.

Still riding high from its role in the 'memogate' firings at CBS and the demise of two editors at the New York Times, the blogosphere took less than two weeks to turn rumors from Davos, Switzerland, into a pink slip for the 23-year veteran of CNN.

In a brief statement just after the networks' Friday evening newscasts, Mr. Jordan condemned the "targeting of journalists by bloggers."

However, some bloggers contend they have not gone far enough in their attacks on the mainstream media.

"So far, we've just weighted [sic] for some one [sic] to say or do something stupid before we ride them [sic] like a coal car into the ground," wrote one unnamed blogger. "But now it's time to get proactive. We're going to pick the next soon-to-be-former journalist and then force him into some career-ending vortex of deception and denial."

When asked about the threat, Mr. Jordan simply shook his head and muttered, "Hubris. Hubris."

So who will be our next unwitting target, fellow digital brownshirts?

Which honest reporter should we drug, kidnap and hypnotise into committing an outrageous breach of law or ethics, leaving an ample evidence trail?

This destroying of honorable, mega-careers with undeserving accusations published on tiny blog sites is a piece of cake.

I am a son of McCarthy, and I became one after reading Arthur Herman's excellent biography.

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

McCarthy was right (correct) in his assumptions, and 75% of America believed him at the time. The liberals re-wrote history, and that re-write has been taught in our institutions of liberal education ever since.

to #27

One can learn good economics from Henry Hazlitt. He's a very good writer on economics
If I recall correctly, it was H.L. Mencken who said to Hazlitt, "You are an economist who can write well." --thus the jibe about economists not writing well. A certain New York Times economics writer comes to mind.
I don't think that Hazlitt was formally trained in economics. Another example that one can think rationally without years of schooling.

The US needs to free ourselves from the following things:

1) Media
2) "International" cooperation
3) The Democratic Party

When we finally do free ourselves from the following things, then we will be free.

William, et al.

Sorry, but neither you or Ann Coulter are convincing me that Joe McCarthy was a good guy. Yes, he was right that there were communists in high level government positions, and yes, stopping them was a worthwhile goal. But, method matters.

McCarthy used a machine gun strafe to try to accomplish a mission better accomplished with a sniper rifle. While he might have pursued a lot of people who were communists, he also implicated a lot of people who weren't. Think about it. If only 10% of the people he called communists weren't, that still leaves one out of every ten people whose lives took an undeserved beating with a legitimate greivance.

All of this might be acceptable if McCarthy had had particularly positive results. But, how many communists did he actually succeed in proving as such? More importantly, what image did he leave the cause of anti-communism with? So far as I can see, as a result of his grandstanding, pretty much any anti-American louse who gets caught with their hand in the cookie jar has gotten the privlege of claiming martyrdom.

That isn't right in my book.

LOL, the McCarthyite Left claims "McCarthyism" here?

Don't they know what "McCarthyism" is? It's making outrageous defamtory claims that you can't back up when your bluff is called...which is, of course, exactly what Eason Jordan did.

There is one "son of McCarthy" in this whole affair, and his name is Eason Jordan.

Question on McCarthy.

We've always been told that innocent people lost jobs ("blacklisted") due to McCarthy.

I've never heard any names though. Did this ever happen or was this just another attempt to attack the Senator.

Speaking of McCarthism....

This isn’t conspiracy theory. This is history. As Yogi always used to say, “You can look it up.” The references are at the bottom.

In 1943, the U.S. Army's Signal Intelligence Service, the forerunner of the National Security Agency, "began a small, very secret program, later codenamed VENONA. The object of the VENONA program was to examine and possibly exploit encrypted Soviet diplomatic communications. These messages had been accumulated by the Signal Intelligence Service (later renamed the U.S. Army Signal Security Agency and commonly called Arlington Hall after the Virginia location of its headquarters) since 1939 but had not been studied previously." (VENONA Historical Monograph #1)

They were able to decrypt the messages for one reason and one reason only: because of the stress on the USSR of World War II, the Soviets committed a cardinal sin and reused their cryptographic one-time pads (the only way to keep communications utterly secure is to use a one-time pad only once, as the name states). Using brute force and brains, the SIS found the weak spot in the Soviet codes and broke them, only to discover horror within. For VENONA showed them that their deepest fears were true: Soviet espionage had totally penetrated the U.S. government. Worse, there was no one in the government the SIS could warn without giving away the fact that they were able to read the Soviet codes, because VENONA showed that the White House, the OSS (the CIA's forerunner), the American military intelligence agencies, and the Justice Department had all been penetrated. If the SIS told any one that they were able to read the Soviet codes, the critically-laced Soviet agents would inform Moscow, who would change the codes immediately. Faced with a secret powerful enough to change the world and the worldview of America, the SIS realized that they had to sit on it and tell no one in case something vital to American survival were to show up. And so they sat on it, until 1995.

David Major, former director of counterintelligence programs for the National Security Council, has stated that VENONA established that there were over 240 Soviet agents in the U.S. Many of the agents were in the government, some of them literally in the White House. Among the proven Soviet agents were Alger Hiss and the Rosenbergs, who were accused of espionage on other evidence (many Americans were naive enough to believe them to be innocent).

The Soviet agents identified by VENONA staggeringly included:

Lauchlin Currie, senior White House aide to President Roosevelt

Alger Hiss, chief of the State Department's Office of Special Political Affairs

Duncan Lee, senior aide to OSS chief William J. Donovan (the OSS later became the CIA)

Laurence Duggan, the Secretary of State's personal adviser

Harry Dexter White, senior adviser to the American delegation to the United Nations and assistant secretary of the Treasury

Harold Glasser, vice-chairman of the U.S. War Production Board

Victor Perlo, chief of the Aviation Section of the U.S. War Production Board.

Judith Coplon, Justice Department

Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, Harry Gold, Klaus Fuchs, and David and Ruth Greenglass, the so-called "Manhattan Project spies," who passed American nuclear secrets to the USSR

Additionally, the VENONA intercepts proved conclusively that the American Left was directly engaging in Soviet espionage, as it documented many espionage activities by members of the American Communist Party on behalf of the USSR.

...to be continued

Senator Joseph McCarthy and J. Edgar Hoover and the House Un-American Activities Committee all had a hunch that something like this was going down, but without VENONA they were fumbling around in the dark because they didn't know who the Soviet agents were. McCarthy, much reviled by the Left - some of whom were Soviet agents - was indeed correct, but he didn't have all facts in hand and didn't know who the 240-plus Soviet agents really were, because he had no access to VENONA. David Major, former director of counterintelligence programs for the National Security Council, has said that Joseph McCarthy "was right for the wrong reasons." Oleg Kalugin, a retired major general of the KGB, said this about McCarthyism: "It has often been betrayed as an evil, but on the other hand, it was an awakening of America. Not to condone McCarthy, but it was a more realistic approach."

Bottom line: the Right was right all along. The Left was treasonous and lying. The U.S. government was indeed highly infiltrated.

The VENONA intercepts were declassified and released in 1995. You can read them and the government comments about them yourself at:

www.nsa.gov/docs/venona/

www.cia.gov/csi/books/venona/venona.htm

foia.fbi.gov/venona.htm

Some good general references on VENONA are:

"REMEMBRANCES OF VENONA" by Mr. William P. Crowell, Deputy Director, National Security Agency
[Link: history.acusd.edu...]

VENONA Historical Monograph #1:
history.acusd.edu/gen/text/coldwar/venona1.html

The VENONA chronology
[Link: tms.physics.lsa.umich.edu...]

Some excellent books on the subject:

VENONA: Decoding Soviet Espionage in America, by John Earl Haynes and Harvey Klehr (Yale University Press)

The Haunted Wood: Soviet Espionage in America-The Stalin Era. By Allen Weinstein and Alexander Vassiliev (Random House)

Mr. Pecquerie's patronizing attitude towards consumers of the world's newspapers is part of the reason the circulation of said publications is falling.

Call bloggers what you will.

The more you call them out though; the more mainstream they become.

Fifty years ago, it was enough to be communist to be fired, today, it is enough to raise questions about the Bush administration policy in Iraq to be denounced as “anti-American”.

Translation: It's the Bush Administration policy to have the military murder reporters.

#185 Dave the..... 2/13/2005 02:21PM PST

The most celebrated "victims" of McCarthyism were the Hollywood 10.

"From 1947 to 1960, many writers, including the famous "Hollywood Ten," were blacklisted as a result of their investigation by HUAC. They were not allowed to work in the movie industry, sometimes for more than a decade. To stay afloat, many blacklisted writers went underground, writing under false names and using someone else to "front" their work. The blacklisting ended in 1960. That year, Dalton Trumbo, one of the blacklisted screenwriters, was given credit for writing the popular films Spartacus and Exodus."

Hollywood 10

Funny how the media always seems to gloss over the facts of their communist involvement.

Read Ann Coulter's book "Treason" and be proud to be called a son of Senator McCarthy ! Dude was a great American

#12, Beagle -
I, too, am a recovering Straight Doper and have made some of the same observations you have - send me an e-mail; I'd really like to chat w/you a bit...

What will truly revolutionize the Blogger community and put a major stake in the MSM will be the increasing amount of high-bandwidth technology, cheap(er) digital cameras that approach broadcast quality, and cheap(er) high-speed wireless connections. With that, any blogger or blogger's helper can get live video feed of these people and take the heart out of the "quoted out of context" argument. We can show their words and expressions and everything else. Live. Direct. And uncut.

The MSM has played Big Brother for too long, watching us and our every move.

Now, the Proles are watching you.

bad news Frenchy. When it comes to defending the honor of our brave soldiers versus the freedom of a journalist to lie, it's a no-brainer. If you had brave soldiers in your country, you might feel the same way.

67 Realwest

Senator Joe McCarthy was a disgrace to this nation in the way he conducted his hunt for communists, it wasn't, at the time, that there was a hunt, but the way he conducted it was shameful

What do you mean by this? It was shameful the way he conducted the hunt, but there was no hunt conducted. Your logic may be somewhat flawed there, or perhaps you did not express your thought clearly.

McCarthy had the courage to expose the enemies of America. We need more McCarthys today, to expose the Rathers, Jordans and other enemies of our country whether they be in media, entertainment, or politics. McCarthyism is a noble endeavor regardless of how it is conducted. The bloggers should be proud to illuminate those who seek to defeat freedom. The disgrace is that the dangerously uninformed willfully oppose the real patriots, using such labels as McCarthyism, racism, nazism, etc., none of which they understand.

William
Poitiers-Lepanto
Malleus Dei

excellent posts re the truth about McCarthy. Thanks.

Haven't read most of the comments yet, but I wanted to get my 2 cents in before my server co. kicks me off. Just this.

Over the last several years the machinisms that the media went through to sabtage the military in Vietnam are becoming more and more exposed. This is just Vietnam redux to the media. But I'm sick and tired of this rumor mongering on their part. The men and women of the military deserve to have the charges brought out and proof provided, else wise, I'd like to see a class action defamation of character brought against Easom. That, at least, would get the tape into the pblic purview.

It is the quintessential leftist cry of "McCarthyism" whenever someone on the left is held ACCOUNTABLE.

Jordan made the remarks -- and, unfortunately, the world found out about them. And held him accountable. And since I am sure Mr. Jordon is one of the more prominent journalists promulgating the entire "BUSH LIED! PEOPLE DIED!" myth, it gives me a smug satisfaction that ordinary people like Charles took him down, because the MSM would never have called one of their own to task for such a slander.

One would think after the beating CBS took after the sordid saga of Memogate, journalists, especially AMERICAN journalists, would have realized that such deceptions would immediately be broadcast.

Cry me a river, Mr. Jordan. You made the statements, according to people that were there. Prove otherwise. We'll be waiting. (and waiting.....and waiting....)

"Sad conclusion in the Eason Jordan affair (see below the New York Times article), sad day for the freedom of expression in America ...."

Funny, I don't remember learning that defamation was a protected speech.

Mac,

Maybe I can help a little on this matter. McCarthy's approach focused on casting a very wide net. As a result, while there was little Type 1 error, there was a great deal of Type 2 error. That is, while McCarthy was able to identify a great many communists as such, he also identified a great many non-communists as communists. That has some significant problems:

1. It causes innocent people to be treated in much the same way as people who wanted to betray our country.
2 It casts doubt on the accuracy of the charge (Consider the popular image of conservatives as looking for communists under the bed).
3. It casts doubt on the charge per se (If you're going after people who just don't pose a threat, it causes people to consider the threat less immediate).

Unfortunately, as far as I can see, McCarthy's antics pretty much did this. Anti-communism had less public support after McCarthy than it did before. As a politician, McCarthy has to take the rap for this.

"Funny, I don't remember learning that defamation was a protected speech."

It's not, but the Left actually thinks that slandering and defaming the military, Republicans, or those parts of the government not currently under Leftist control constitutes protected speech. Based on the Ward Churchill incident, the Left also thinks that defaming the honored dead and lying on job applications is protected speech.

Faking memos to try to bring down a president isn't protected speech, either.

None of it is, and they are learning that lesson the hard way.

The next time some Lefty whackjob rears up on his hind legs to defame the military, if he has two brain cells left in his head he will remember just what Eason Jordan got and sit down and shut up.

Memo to the Left: tell the truth, or pay the price. Signed, the Right.

#200 Bill Dalasio

Thanks for the reply Bill.

Could you please identify, by name, a non- communist who was wrongly identified, by Sen. McCarthy, as a communist.

#98 Charles

And let's not be leaving out "odious Neanderthal," Charles!

#201
"Memo to the Left: tell the truth, or pay the price. Signed, the Right"

I like that. It will probably take a while for it to get thru

#191 azul93gt You and your link identify the "Hollywood 10" but you and your link only identify Dalton Trumbo. Who were the other 9?
Moreover, some people were blacklisted in the entertainment industry over their refusal to answer on the basis of their 5th Amendment rights. If you're inclined to look for them, start with Lillian Hellman and Dashell Hammett. Hammett has been credited with creating the "hard-boiled" detective by, among others Raymond Chandler. He has been credited by the Mystery Writers Association as one of the most gifted writers American ever produced (and none of his books were political). He never wrote another book or play out of protest over McCarthy's methods. Hellman, one of the gifted actresses of the times never acted in a musical or movie again.
It's NOT what McCarthy was trying to do that pisses me off, (find and expose the commies) but it was the blunderbuss way he went about it.
Read #183 Bill Dalasio's comment if my many prior comments didn't penetrate. By his conduct and that of his right hand man Robert Kennedy, McCarthy turned our system of justice on it's head: guilty (in the glare of publicity) unless YOU, the defendant could prove otherwise.
Gunning down commies was (and frankly still is to me) perfectly ok; character assassination is not.
#133 Poitiers-Lepanto - how did you and I get from my post at #107 and your post at #133, wherein you said, among other things:It was a harsh time, like today, and the appearances must not make you forget the substance of the problem :(yesterday like today) there ARE people with an agenda (eg, openly declared by Ward Churchill)...TO DESTROY AMERICA.
Every post involving McCarthy that I have made here had to do with his METHODS. He was a demagogue. In America it's supposed to mean something when we say freedom of speech (and US SENATOR McCarthy and his committee certainly fit the bill as freedom from governmental injection/rejection of freedom of speech). If he "knocked off" 230 commies, does that mean that he ruined the reputations of 2300 otherwise non-commie Americans is ok?
I respect you a great deal, but what separates the USA from the rest of the world is that you are presumed innocent in a presumed criminal matter, NOT that you have to prove your innocence. As I have said before, I am a Son of Liberty; not a Son of Joe McCarthy.

Tailgunner Joe McCarthy that great friend of the Kennedys

Joseph Kennedy had befriended McCarthy because he found him to be a likable fellow Irish-Catholic who had all the right ideas on the domestic communist menace. These warm feelings were quickly transferred to the entire Kennedy family. JFK liked the fact that McCarthy went after the “elites” in the State Department whom JFK regarded with contempt. (13) Even before McCarthy made accusations against the State Department of subversion, JFK had already aligned himself with the militant anti-communists who blamed the Truman State Department for the “loss” of China.

Small wonder then, that at the same Harvard seminar where he cheered Nixon’s victory to the Senate, that JFK expressed the view that McCarthy “may have something” to his charges of domestic subversion that had by then become vocal.

...at the JFK Library that when a speaker had likened McCarthy to the convicted Soviet spy Alger Hiss, JFK rose to his feet and declared “How dare you couple the name of a great American patriot with that of a traitor!” and walked out.

#191 azul

How were the Hollywood 10 victims of McCarthy? The Hollywood people were dragged before the HOUSE Un-American Activities Committe in, what 1947? McCarthy was a Senator, and had nothing, IIRC with the Hollywood Ten.

#140 and #183 -- In a way, you're both right.

McCarthy used a meat axe when a scalpel was necessary. He was right on his main points. The State Department and Ft. Monmouth were seriously lax on security. As far as tactics and rhetoric go, there's nothing McCarthy did that liberals haven't done before, during, and after McCarthy's time.

Arthur Herman's book provides a balanced view.

#207 Carolina Girl 2/13/2005 04:23PM PST

How were the Hollywood 10 victims of McCarthy? The Hollywood people were dragged before the HOUSE Un-American Activities Committe in, what 1947? McCarthy was a Senator, and had nothing, IIRC with the Hollywood Ten.

I said that they were the most celebrated 'victims' of 'McCarthyism'.Not specifically Joe McCarthy. I brought this up as a way of indicating a popular media fostered perception. I'm really not sympathetic to commies or the constant Hollywood glorification of the Hollywood 10.

#208 LesLein,

My point exactly, regarding the axe amd scalpel.

#202 mac,

Nice tactic. McCarthy worked primarily through innuendo. And, as realwest suggests, this leaves anyone disagreeing tasked with proving the subject isn't a communist. Still, I'm game for it: try Dean Acheson:

Who constitutes the highest circles of this conspiracy? About that we cannot be sure. We are convinced that Dean Acheson, who steadfastly serves the interests of nations other than his own, the friend of Alger Hiss, who supported him in his hour of retribution, who contributed to his defense fund, must be high on the roster.

This flap is all because of the lightning speed and rough-edged sense of justice of the blogosphere.
This "citizen's media" is just so jagged and unbalanced. Fine mainstream icons are toppled by neocon wingnuts, tenured professors of high standing are slandered, while, on the other hand, rag-tag tools of the Bushitler administration are exposed by sharp-witted, detail-oriented centrists like Agent Kos.
Dare a war-minded chickenhawk weasel to attempt professional journalistic credentials again?
HA!

(*spit*)

The great director John Huston on the Hollywood 10:

"It seems that some of them had already testified in California, and that their testimony had been false. They had said they were not Communists and now, to have admitted it to the press would have been to lay themselves open to charges of perjury."

William Phillips of Partisan Review:

"Some were Communists, and what one was asked to defend was their right to lie about it."

If not, the “new era of journalism” opened by the blogosphere will appear as the old clothes of American populism.

Actually, I am rather fond of American populism.

The Hollywood 10: Alvah Bessie, Herbert Biberman, Lester Cole, Edward Dmytryk, Ring Lardner, Jr., John Howard Lawson, Albert Maltz, Sam Ornitz, Robert Adrian Scott, and Dalton Trumbo.

I doesn't appear many of the people brought before HUAC or the Dies Committee or State Senator Jack Tenney's California Joint Fact-finding Committee on Un-American Activities were not admitted Communist party members or communist sympathizers. It would seem that Hollywood tends to undersell this aspect of the story.

HOLLYWOOD BLACKLIST

CUAFR. It is telling that the *spit* MSM *spit* and their hangers-on can respond only with insults and more slander when called to account. I seem to recall Tom Brokaw calling the blogger attention to Rather's egregious acts on the TANG documents a "jihad." All they can do is try to smear the messenger because they're dead in the water when it comes to the message itself. This is typical of the arrogant left, and such an extraordinarily unshocking event that I may have to go lie down.

#210 Bill Dalasio

You may have a good point there Bill. I don't know. What did Acheson himself have to say about it? Did he respond at all?

Bill Dalasio: Terrific posts on McCarthy. As Paul pointed out earlier, Tailgunner Joe was the best present the Left ever got.

Paul Johnson (no liberal) sums McCarthy up in his History of the American People:

McCarthy was never a serious investigator of subversion but a politican trying to draw attention to himself,...,There is no evidence he ever identified any subversive not already known to the authorities and the only consequence of his activities was to cause trouble and distress for a lot of innocent people and discredit the activities of those genuinely concerned to make America safe.

Yes, there really was a Communist threat and Communists in the government. That does not mean McCarthy was a great guy, for the reasons that Bill Dalasio has put forth in his posts.

There is something that conservatives need to remind themselves from time to time: something does not automatically become good just because the liberals disdain it, or say they do. Bull Connor fought the power of the federal government - does that make him an admirable character?

Mac,

To be honest, I'm not sure. Look, my point here isn't that McCarthy was wrong to go after the b**tards. It's that he undermined that goal by screwing over people who didn't necessarily deserve it. Meanwhile, the Reds got to play the victim (actually, the real victims those who weren't Reds). The sad part about all of this is that these guys weren't just a bunch of coffee shop radicals; they were doing real damage both to the country and to individuals. Even the "harmless" Hollywood communists were essentially running an extortion racket under the guise of a union. Of course, that sort of information tends to get...overlooked.

"This could give us a clue why the World Economic Forum is continuing to stonewall on the release of the video of the discussion—they don’t want the blogosphere to see an audience full of leading world journalists cheering and applauding Jordan’s vicious slander."

An audience of leading world journalists cheering and applauding such a vicious slander made at the World Economic Forum is far more grave a scandal than the libel made by the speaker, Eason Jordan. It means that the acute paranoia against the US was not limited to Eason Jordan -- it is an integral part of the make-up of the leading world journalists.

The refusal to release the video of the discussion confirms the worst of anyone's fears of the rampant paranoia against the US that exists in the elite of international journalism's society.

There doesn't seem to be many journalists anymore. Most have morphed into propagandists, reporting events that never took place, to not reporting salient events that did take place, to put their own warped political spin on things. Most of today's journalists could truthfully have their "reporting" entered in the Pulitzer Prize fiction category.....and probably win! Heh. I used to think lawyers and politicians were the lowest form of scum on the planet, now I think they're off the hook with the advent of the new propagandists.

Found this at POYNTER

2/12/2005 4:26:49 PM

From JULES CRITTENDEN, Boston Herald: I am alarmed that Steve Lovelady, managing editor of CJR Daily, is baffled by the uproar over Eason Jordan's remarks. If this helps, it is because Jordan reportedly accused American soldiers of purposefully murdering journalists, without citing any evidence, and without his news organization having reported it. While he backtracked and claimed he was misunderstood, apparently CNN found his transgression serious enough to accept his resignation.

I am also alarmed that the editor of a major media watchdog publication's web spinoff would cite a report titled "Two Murders and a Lie" (Reporters Without Borders, and apparently without standards) to support Jordan, as well as the similarly flawed "Permission to Fire," (Committee to Protect Journalists) both of which offer selectively reported and distorted views of the Palestine incident that are peppered with inaccuracies and speculation. There is no evidence to support accusations of either murder or lying in the Palestine incident.

By way of disclosure, I was embedded with the tank company that fired on the Palestine, and was within 100 yards of the tank that fired on April 8, 2003. Sgt. Shawn Gibson saw what he thought was an Iraqi forward observer in a tall building. We had been alerted that an Iraqi FO had eyes on our position an hour earlier. The tankers had been in combat for up to 30 hours by the time Gibson fired, and after a particularly heavy pre-dawn counterattack was repelled, continued to be plagued with mortar fire and RPGs -- including fire from the east bank of the Tigris and from tall buildings. In a month of combat operations with A Co. 4/64 Armor, I witnessed numerous examples of restraint when the tankers put themselves in danger in order to avoid killing civilians.

Any suggestion that American soldiers have purposefully killed journalists in Iraq is repugnant, ignores the facts and reflects a disturbing bias. The failure of a major media watchdog publication's editor to get this is also disturbing.

His name is "Pecker-ee": BWAHAHAHOGHAHAHA!

"Pecker-ee
Pecker-ah
pecker-ee
pecker-ahhahaha..."

Ann Coulter had the best statement on the HOllywood 10 I have ever read.

These people were lionized and wined and dined by all their liberal friends for the rest of their lives. The trade off is that for about a 10 year period a FEW of them could not work in a particular industry in America.

Boo hoo.

At the same time that was going on, Stalin and Mao and other Comminist leaders were murdering millions of people in the name of 'justice' and 'fairness'.

These Hollywood people embraced a political system that was anti-American and subversive to American interests at it's very core.

They suffered not a tenth part of what the millions killed by Stalin, Mao and other commie dictators suffered.

And yet HOllywood continues to talk about how 'brave' and 'noble' these people were.

They were not brave and noble. They were either clueless idealists who embraced a political system that used mass murder as a cultural tool or they were sinister monsters who knew fully what they were endorsing.

We should have deported each and every one of them.

manofaiki

For those of you who believe that journalism is facts and only facts, Mitch Radcliffe sets the record straight:

It is a jihad when a group of conservative-leaning bloggers attack a journalist who allegedly expressed an opinion about the conservative government of the United States' complicity in the death of dozens of journalists call for his head rather than deliver the facts about what was said. The fact was, it was said in a discussion and not a news report, making it an act of personal opinion, not journalism. Had he made that allegation in a news report without any substantiation, then, yes, he'd have been bullshitting us.

Oh, I guess he put you in your place.

If thought ten people were trying to kill me but only 9 really were, I should lay down my arms?
How about people who went to KKK meetings but didn't join?

On a related note: it appears Jeff Gannon actually was a gay male prostitute. He charges $1200 /weekend if anyone is interested:

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

You gotta love Scrappleface:

Pentagon Sets Rules of Engagement for Journalists
by Scott Ott

(2005-05-08) -- Spurred by CNN executive Eason Jordan's accusations that U.S. troops have targeted journalists in Iraq, the Pentagon today issued revised rules of engagement for encounters between U.S. forces and the members of the news media.

Under the new guidelines, U.S. troops will first offer journalists an opportunity to throw down their cameras and notebooks and approach with hands raised.

"We're there to kill terrorists, not journalists," said an unnamed Pentagon official. "The new rules are designed to make it easier for our personnel to distinguish between the two, since they're often found together and have similar objectives."

Once in captivity, the so-called Prisoners Of Undetermined Loyalty Embedded with Terrorists (POULET), will be treated according to the Geneva Conventions, although the Justice Department has yet to rule on their official status.