LGF

Iwo Jima

Sat, Feb 19, 2005 at 9:43:14 am PST

At OpinionJournal, Arthur Herman has an outstanding piece on the 60th anniversary of the assault on Iwo Jima.

The lesson of Iwo Jima is in fact an ancient one, going back to Machiavelli: that sometimes free societies must be as tough and unrelenting as their enemies. Totalitarians test their opponents by generating extreme conditions of brutality and violence; in those conditions—in the streets and beheadings of Fallujah or on the beach and in the bunkers of Iwo Jima—they believe weak democratic nerves will crack. This in turn demonstrates their moral superiority: that by giving up their own decency and humanity they have become stronger than those who have not.

Free societies can afford only one response. There were no complicated legal issues or questions of “moral equivalence” on Iwo Jima: It was kill or be killed. That remains the nature of war even for democratic societies. The real question is, who outlasts whom. In 1945 on Iwo Jima, it was the Americans, as the monument at Arlington Cemetery, based on Rosenthal’s photograph, proudly attests. In the jungles of Vietnam and Cambodia in the 1970s, it was the totalitarians—with terrible consequences.

Today, some in this country think the totalitarians may still win in Iraq and elsewhere. A few even hope so. Only one thing is certain: As long as Americans cherish the memory of those who served at Iwo Jima, and grasp the crucial lesson they offer all free societies, the totalitarians will never win.

Read it all.

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61 comments

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1 Gunny  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 7:45:10am

Here's to you, Pop, and to all the Marines who fought there. Semper Fidelis.

2 BabbaZee  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 7:47:12am

Thanks to Gunny's Pop and every American that served
G-d Bless America

3 Former CNN Watcher  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 7:47:14am

Depressing that so many Europeans have already forgotten this valuable (and costly) lesson.

More disturbing is that they are proud of it!

4 quark2  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 7:52:39am

One of two theatres my father served in.

5 mickthemick  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 7:53:24am
As long as Americans cherish the memory of those who served at Iwo Jima, and grasp the crucial lesson they offer all free societies, the totalitarians will never win.

But looking around the websites of the MSM today, I can find little mention of Iwo Jima. Lots of stuff about the bombings in Iraq for the shi'ite holiday. Imagine if, 60 years ago, the MSM behaved as badly as it does today. They would be asking if the U.S. casualties on Iwo were worth invading a small, volcanic island; they'd be asking if the situation in Iwo might turn into a quagmire; and, ofcourse, they'd be taking shots at the President every chance they got. I guess Iwo Jima can't be Bush's fault, so it'll get no coverage from the MSM.

6 Poitiers-Lepanto  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 7:53:45am
Free societies can afford only one response. There were no complicated legal issues or questions of “moral equivalence” on Iwo Jima: It was kill or be killed. That remains the nature of war even for democratic societies.

Terrorize the terrorists.

7 quark2  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 7:55:19am

@3 Former CNN Watcher

You cannot forget that which you have not remembered. And that is the problem with Europe.

8 Poitiers-Lepanto  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 7:56:55am

OT (but not so much)

For those of us who have helped Kim to send goodies to Walter and Adam, the Two Snipers, there are sad news...

www.kimdutoit.com/ee/

9 atlasshrugged  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 7:59:23am
Free societies can afford only one response

The very sad thing is without another 9/11 attack this country will continue to slip back into complacency while the radical islamic fundamentalists continue their slow deliberate relentless barbaric pursuit of taking over the free world, country by country.

An suddenly you wake up and you are in Eurabia...Amerabia

Atlas

10 quark2  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 8:00:07am

@5 mickthemick

One advantage of the way these proponents of freedom out themselves. You'll know to not let them have your back and if they attempt to jump into your foxhole during a fray to kick their asses right back out into the line of fire.
They'll wither like clorox sprayed poison ivy.

11 [Engineer]  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 8:00:34am

I have a copy of that picture etched in gold foil hanging in my living room. I can thank of no greater honor to the Corps and to all of the U.S. military. G_d forbid that we ever have to take casualties like that again.

12 rorschach  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 8:01:13am

I consistently hear the meme, "we cannot respond in kind to the terrorists or we will become like them".

We will NEVER become like them. But we owe it to ourselves, our children, and the brave souls who paid the ultimate price on Iwo Jima to be, for a short time, MORE TERRIBLE THAN THE TERRORISTS COULD EVER BE.

13 quark2  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 8:02:30am

@10 me

Well heck! And preview is my friend...that was supposed to be anti freedom...

14 Sean II  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 8:07:05am

I am proud to say that my dad fought at Iwo Jima.

15 mapchic  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 8:09:40am

#3 Former CNN Watcher

Most Europeans know nothing of the pacific war. As far as they were concerned WWII was all about Hitler.

When in discussion they complain that the Americans didn't do enough, fast enough I like to point ou that we were fighting a two front war... and a great deal of our time, talent and treasure was being expended in the Pacific.

I usually get a blank stare in response and then something along the lines of... you didn't have to fight Japan. You could have just waited until the European war was over and dropped the bomb.

Aaarrrggghhh

My father's cousin was a Marine on Iwo Jima with the singularly unpleasant task of cleaning out the caves. He was short - so he was sent in to the caves for some pretty bad work (talk about understatement). Before he died I told him about my getting into WWII re-enacting and he told me some stories (I think the morphine he was on loosened his tongue for the first time in 55 years). Until the day he died he could tell you the names of all of his buddies who died on that 'goddamned rock'.

I am so glad that I was able to know him, and that he entrusted me with his memories of Iwo Jima.

16 quark2  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 8:15:02am

@15 mapchic

We fought WWII in three theatres. Don't forget Africa and the ME.

17 ronaldusmagnus  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 8:16:08am
"...sometimes free societies must be as tough and unrelenting as their enemies."

Victor Davis Hanson has written repeatedly about the necessity of 'not being nice'. His writings on Patton and other military leaders throughout the ages remind us that:

Ruthless and overwhelming force must be used against your enemy. Evil must be destroyed - it can neither be contained nor appeased.

18 BabbaZee  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 8:19:04am

#17 ronaldusmagnus

It is indeed immoral NOT to destroy the enemy

19 tigger2005  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 8:35:23am

OT: The author of this Iwo Jima piece wrote a book about the British Navy. I'm using this as an excuse to plug the "Thomas Kydd" books by Julian Stockwin. a retired British lieutenant commander. If you liked the Patrick O'Brian books you'll love this series. I think it's actually better than O'Brian--faster paced and it tells the story from a unique point of view, that of a 20-year-old pressed man who learns to thrive in his new environment and moves up the ranks.

20 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 8:41:22am

It is also 60 years this week since the Battle of Manila.


The US lost a comparitively light 1000 soldiers, the Japanese about 20,000. However, between 100,000 and 150,000 Filipino civilians died, because the Japanese commander ordered all civilians killed, because they were suspected of disloyalty to the Empire. Men were tied together in groups, doused with gasoline and burned alive, woman and children were bayoneted. Survivors were generally young woman the Japanese decided not to kill right away but use instead for rape.

Of course, questioning terrorists in Guantanamo using scantily clad women is the real war crime.

21 tigger2005  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 8:41:41am

Well, whattya know ... Hillary Clinton and John McCain with a positive assessment of the situation in Iraq, declaring that the "insurgents" are failing in their efforts to destabilize the country, despite the recent wave of suicide bombings.

The Dems might have a credible ticket in 2008 if they fielded Hillary and McCain. I wouldn't vote for them but if they won I think they'd do a better job than Kerry.

22 obscured by clouds  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 8:45:37am

My dad joined the Navy in 1945 at the age of 17. Luckily he didn't see any action and spent most of his time in Hawaii. But alot of his friends did see action in the pacific. A large number of his fraternity brothers were guys in their mid-20's, combat vets taking advantage of the GI bill.

One story that a Marine told him really stuck with him. They'd finally taken one of the islands they'd fought for for weeks. The marines were were eating lunch and a starving Japanese soldier snuck into the chow line. The Marines noticed him and let him pass through the line unscathed. As soon as he passed through the line with a plate full of food they shot him. The marines laughed about it.

The WW2 generation really did earn "greatest generation" status, imho. What kind of world would we be living in now if it weren't for the men and women who won the second world war? It's a damn scary thought.

23 realwest  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 8:46:25am

CHARLES - just had to tell you how appropriate this topic is.
Thanks.

24 mapchic  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 8:47:18am

#16 quark2

Good point. I will admit I usually (lazily) lump N. Africa and the mid east in with Europe... just like I lump the sea battles of the North Atlantic in with Europe. I guess I figure cross one ocean - and you are in the Pac theater, cross the other ocean - European theater.

It is striking though just how little Europeans know of the Pacific war. I think that if they learned of the determination, bravery, and just plain stubborness of the American Marines and Sailors who fought in the Pacific they would have a better understanding of our nation as a whole.

Not to take anything away from those whh fought bravely in Europe... But the men in the Pacific were fighting in some ways a more personal battle. A fight against the 'damn japs' (to quote my family members who fought there) who had attacked us on that Sunday morning Dec 7, 1941.

They were fighting a more personal war - of vengence. And a vengeful America is quite a sight to behold.

25 quark2  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 8:53:53am

@14 mapchic

It is striking though just how little Europeans know of the Pacific war. I think that if they learned of the determination, bravery, and just plain stubborness of the American Marines and Sailors who fought in the Pacific they would have a better understanding of our nation as a whole.


Sadly there's only one thing wrong with your quote. The europeans wil not have a better understanding of our nation even if they were exposed to this learning. I do believe they are beyond learning and applying said knowledge in the real world.
For too long they've lived comfortably in a United States secured bubble, allowing them to freebase in fantasies of their own makings.

26 rand mcnally  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 9:09:22am

I don't know about Europeans, in general, but I would figure that the Brits would remember the fighting in Asia. The battle of Hong Kong was the first land battle for Canadian troops in WW2 IIRC.

27 foreign devil  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 9:12:19am

The men and women who are fighting on the front lines are the bravest of the brave. They would have acquitted themselves well in WWI and WWII. But I'm sad to say that the society we have today just doesn't have the 'bottle' for taking a bloody nose in a fight. They're afraid and no amount of talking about king and country of honor or democracy is going to stiffen someone's spine when they're afraid. They need to face these irrational fears. Those who want to be on the front lines and can do it have volunteered. The likelihood of the rest of us getting a hangnail is very, very slim. But even so, their irrational free-floating anxiety makes them against all efforts to contain this menace which will swallow us if we don't resist.

We have had too long a peace and have forgotten how and why we must MUST defend ourselves against Islamic aggression. We'd better toughen up fast, and more mentally than physically!

"It's not the size of the dog in the fight; it's the size of the fight in the dog!"

28 subvet  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 9:13:24am

No one in Europe seems to notice that those outside Europe couldn't care less about Europe...

29 Dr. Sanity  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 9:18:37am

#14 Sean II

My father also fought and was wounded there there. I've listened to his stories since I was a child. He was dug-in and had to remain still for hours at a time and at one point he got a cramp in his foot. He lifted it just a few inches to shake it and a sniper shot him. He also tells the story of discovering, with a fellow Marine, an entire barrel of olives. They promptly sat down and ate the enire barrel, which led to being very sick (we're talking thousands of olives).

My father passed away last year. But being a Marine, and fighting on Iwo Jima were his proudest moments. A Marine honor guard was present at his funeral, and a commander at the local unit did his eulogy. I was very proud of him.

30 braindirt  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 9:22:31am

#5 mickthemick

Imagine if, 60 years ago, the MSM behaved as bad as it does today.


Today, they also have U.S. soldiers up for murder. Killing the enemy is now a "war crime". Of course, suicide bombings are "acts of heroism, bravery and martyrdom".

31 T. Jefferson  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 9:22:59am

Technology saves our soldier’s lives.

We now have drones to obtain information on our enemy’s disposition and smart munitions with an amazing degree of accuracy. The US military can do orders of magnitude more damage to the enemy while sparing our soldiers lives. We no longer have to throw away men so freely to gain an objective. A battle like Shiloh no longer needs to be fought. Of course, technology is not a panacea; we will always need boots on the ground. Our troops have an immeasurably greater chance of coming home alive and whole.

Overall, the US military has done an amazingly effective job, especially during WW2. In fact, it was so good that many people take the results for granted. Far too many people in America and Europe truly believe that all problems can be solved by endless negotiations. They refuse to face the sad truth that at times war is necessary and people are going to die.

32 Carl O. Witz  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 9:41:34am

Marine Corps Scholarship Foundation
P.O. Box 3008
Princeton, NJ 08543-3008
Phone: (800) 292-7777

[Link: www.marine-scholars.org...]

33 1 US Sheeple  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 9:42:24am

#30 Braindirt

You are 100% correct. When is someone going to clue in the Bush Adm that legal persecution of the American troops is not the best way to fight a war?

The Bush Adm is so afraid of the International Court in Belgum that they have no problem in letting the survivors of brutal combat in Iraq face the PC JAG!

I for one am totally disgusted with the chicken s**t military brass and the Bush Adm.

American troops that defeat the terrorists are then confronted by a possibility of going to Leavenworth for war crimes.

Give me a break!

34 Al di Grandpa  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 9:42:33am

Thank you for this Charles...

As many here may know, my grandson is with the 15th MEU just arrived in Kuwait. They are doing live fire exercises getting ready to head north I imagine.


[Link: 192.156.19.109...]

We pray for these and all our warriors.

"Never has so much been owed by so many to so few."

Semper Fi

35 quark2  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 9:43:28am

@29 Dr. Sanity

Many thanks for the service your father gave. My father also served in europe and in the pacific. He went to his grave still carrying a 9mm german officers bullet.

36 Al di Grandpa  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 9:46:12am

For you WW II history buffs, Nov. 20, 1943 was another important date. Who knows?

(Give someone a 10 minute chance before you pounce on Google)

Al

37 El  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 9:56:17am

Someone wrote above that Europeans ignore what the Pacific war was like.
I've been in high school in France and I remember studying WWII and how the Pacific War was an insane bloodbath. It was 15 years ago though,nowadays things are really weird here, I would not be surprised if some rewriting or "amnesia" would be in place.
So I can't vouch on it still being common practice. Beside I had an incredibly good History teacher, who was an "officier de reserve".
When some morons in my classroom made antisemitics remarks on one occasion, he organized a screening of footage from the camps. And not some PC stuff, some of it was really graphic. He made his point.


On the duty for those who uphold freedom and peace to become as brutal as their opponents are, it reminded me of Henry V speech at Honfleur in Shakespeare's play :

In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
As modest stillness and humility:
But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
Then imitate the action of the tiger;
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favour'd rage;
Then lend the eye a terrible aspect;
Let pry through the portage of the head
Like the brass cannon; let the brow o'erwhelm it
As fearfully as doth a galled rock
O'erhang and jutty his confounded base,
Swill'd with the wild and wasteful ocean.
Now set the teeth and stretch the nostril wide,
Hold hard the breath and bend up every spirit

Henry V

38 Lady of Shalott (ylreveb)  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 10:03:14am

To all our brave veterans. God bless you, and our thanks can never be enough.


We never know how high we are

Till we are called to rise;

And then, if we are true to plan,

Our statures touch the skies.

39 T_IT_UP  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 10:05:54am

We can prevail despite all the naysayers, traitors, and second-guessing armchair generals.

We can, we must, and we will.

Remember Iwo Jima!

40 Lady of Shalott (ylreveb)  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 10:07:09am

February 19, 2005
In Memoriam: Sgt. Adam J. Plumondore, USA

I regret to inform my readers that Sgt. Adam J. Plumondore, United States Army, was killed in action while serving with the First Battalion, 24th Infantry Regiment, fighting in Mosul, Iraq.

Sgt. Plumondore was 22 years of age, and a resident of my town, Gresham, OR. He graduated from Gresham High School with his Class of '01 and entered the US Army.

Sgt. Plumondore requested and received posting to one of the Army's elite units, as a Scout-Sniper of "Deuce-Four Recon". His competence as a long-range rifleman earned him respect and support from people all over this grateful Nation, including many, such as myself, who had yet to meet him personally.

Sgt. Plumondore was killed when a vehicle containing explosives was detonated near his vehicle. Sgt. Plumondore had volunteered for his final patrol in place of a comrade. As an NCO, he probably could have taken a safer position within the vehicle, but instead, served the roof-ring mounted heavy weapon on the open top of his vehicle, where he was more effective with his shooting skills.

Sgt. Plumondore personified all the qualities that make up the profession of the soldier, and the spirit of the warrior as well.

Come home to us now, Sgt. Plumondore, you have earned your Rest. Please allow this veteran of an earlier foreign war to be one of the Guards of your Spirit.

Major George Schneider, USAF, Retired

41 It's Miss Donna V. to you  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 10:09:09am

I was reminded of the anniversary of Imo Jima earlier this week by an elderly retired doctor, who, like many elderly retired doctors, still likes to hang out in the Physician's Lounge of the hospital where he practiced for so long.

He told me he had been in the Marines and fought at Imo Jima. "It really was pure hell," he said. "I lost a lotta buddies,...,"

I think he was afraid of getting emotional, so he followed it up with the story of his only "battle wound." He stabbed himself in the ankle trying to open up a can of fruit cocktail he had stolen from the Seabees.

"The Seabees always had the best grub. We took stuff from them all the time, " he said.

Well, considering how bravely the Marines fought on Imo Jima, I'd say they were entitled to a few cans of fruit cocktail.

42 Ojoe  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 10:11:30am

I am alive today,probably, because Truman had the nerve to drop the Bomb on Japan; otherwise my dad, a P-38 pilot, might not have survived the invasion of the Japanese home islands, operation Coronet, scheduled for spring 1946. I hope we have the same nerve now. We could use it. Look: Dec 1941 to Aug. 1945 and it was DONE. Now: Sept. 2001 to Feb. 2005 and no end in sight. Every day more news of the inhuman scum who kill themselves and you too, with never a rising sun even painted on the side of the fuselage, instead a red cross on the side of a fake ambulance. I've had it to the very core of my being with these 'people' and I can't wait to see them smashed out of existence.

43 sonofsheldon  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 10:15:13am

I've met some WWII vets in my time. There was a vet down the street, died a couple of years ago. I used to visit. I'd bring some jazz CDs and we'd talk. Sometimes he'd tell stories of the fighing in Europe. On the one hand I'm glad I never had to go through that, but on the other hand, I felt a bit smaller because I hadn't.

44 Terp Mole  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 10:18:00am

And Pacific Islanders in Hawaiian academia commemorate the 60th anniversary of Iwo Jima how?

By inviting an apologist for 9/11 to spew his hate-America venom under the guise of "Speaking Truth to Power".

Simply breathtaking.

45 El  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 10:23:22am
46 pookleblinky  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 10:39:53am

The lesson condensed:

Those fighting for freedom must fight infinitely more fiercely than those fighting to deny freedom.

47 Sherryr  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 12:09:28pm

and these Marine still fight -- from the Washington Times

Retired Marines set up a security watch yesterday around the North Carolina home of accused 2nd Lt. Ilario Pantano, after a Pakistan-connected Web site depicted a beheading of the Marine Corps officer.

"It's a show of solidarity for Pantano," Charles Gittins, his civilian attorney, said of the former Marine volunteers.

Mr. Gittins said Lt. Pantano has been charged unfairly with premeditated murder by the Corps at Camp Lejeune, N.C., arguing that he killed two Iraqi insurgents in self-defense.

48 Vickie  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 12:14:05pm

We need to do what we did in WW2. We need to MEAN BUSINESS about the War with Islam. We meant business in Dresden and we meant business in Hiroshima. We aren't doing that NOW and the Islamic World sees this and it translates to THEM, that the US is afraid of going too far.

Shock and Awe in Iraq...was small s Shock..and small a Awe.

This is NO WAY to do it. You only continue to lose your own people AND the people, usually civilians, on the other side. Didn't we learn anything from Vietnam?

Almost the beautiful sight in DC is that statue. Always has been.

49 rsquare  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 12:17:45pm

#15 & #16

another theatre command: CBI
China-Burma-India

Hats off to all Vets

50 rsquare  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 12:19:56pm

I dont know if this has been posted before but...

If D-Day Had Been Reported On Today

by William A. Mayer
Tragic French Offensive Stalled on Beaches (Normandy, France - June 6, 1944) - Pandemonium, shock and sheer terror predominate today's events in Europe.

In an as yet unfolding apparent fiasco, Supreme Allied Commander, Gen. Dwight David Eisenhower's troops got a rude awakening this morning at Omaha Beach here in Normandy.

Due to insufficient planning and lack of a workable entrance strategy, soldiers of the 1st and 29th Infantry as well as Army Rangers are now bogged down and sustaining heavy casualties inflicted on them by dug-in insurgent positions located 170 feet above them on cliffs overlooking the beaches which now resemble blood soaked killing fields at the time of this mid-morning filing.

Bodies, parts of bodies, and blood are the order of the day here, the screams of the dying and the stillness of the dead mingle in testament to this terrible event.

Morale can only be described as extremely poor--in some companies all the officers have been either killed or incapacitated, leaving only poorly trained privates to fend for themselves.

Things appear to be going so poorly that Lt. General Omar Bradley has been rumored to be considering breaking off the attack entirely. As we go to press embattled U.S. president Franklin Delano Roosevelt's spokesman has not made himself available for comment at all, fueling fires that something has gone disastrously awry.


The government at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue is in a distinct lock-down mode and the Vice President's location is presently and officially undisclosed.

Whether the second in command should have gone into hiding during such a crisis will have to be answered at some future time, but many agree it does not send a good signal.

Miles behind the beaches and adding to the chaos, U.S. Naval gunships have inflicted many friendly fire casualties, as huge high explosive projectiles rain death and destruction on unsuspecting Allied positions.


The lack of training of Naval gunners has been called into question numerous times before and today's demonstration seems to underlie those concerns.

At Utah Beach the situation is also grim, elements of the 82nd and 101st Airborne seemed to be in disarray as they missed their primary drop zones behind the area believed to comprise the militant's front lines. Errant paratroopers have been hung up in trees, breaking arms and legs, rendering themselves easy targets for those defending this territory.

On the beach front itself the landing area was missed, catapulting U.S. forces nearly 2,000 yards South of the intended coordinates, thus placing them that much farther away from the German insurgents and unable to direct covering fire or materially add to the operation.

Casualties at day's end are nothing short of horrific; at least 8,000 and possibly as many as 9,000 were wounded in the haphazardly coordinated attack, which seems to have no unifying purpose or intent. Of this number at least 3,000 have been estimated as having been killed, making June 6th by far, the worst single day of the war which has dragged on now--with no exit strategy in sight--as the American economy still struggles to recover from Herbert Hoover's depression and its 25% unemployment.

Military spending has skyrocketed the national debt into uncharted regions, lending another cause for concern. When and if the current hostilities finally end it may take generations for the huge debt to be repaid.

On the planning end of things, experts wonder privately if enough troops were committed to the initial offensive and whether at least another 100,000 troops should have been added to the force structure before such an audacious undertaking. Communication problems also have made their presence felt making that an area for further investigation by the appropriate governmental committees.

51 rsquare  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 12:20:26pm

#50 cont.

On the home front, questions and concern have been voiced. A telephone poll has shown dwindling support for the wheel-chair bound Commander In Chief, which might indicate a further erosion of support for his now three year-old global war.

Of course, the President's precarious health has always been a question. He has just recently recovered from pneumonia and speculation persists whether or not he has sufficient stamina to properly sustain the war effort. This remains a topic of furious discussion among those questioning his competency.

Today's costly and chaotic landing compounds the President's already large credibility problem.


More darkly, this phase of the war, commencing less than six months before the next general election, gives some the impression that Roosevelt may be using this offensive simply as a means to secure re-election in the fall.

Underlining the less than effective Allied attack, German casualties--most of them innocent and hapless conscripts--seem not to be as severe as would be imagined. A German minister who requested anonymity stated categorically that "the aggressors were being driven back into the sea amidst heavy casualties, the German people seek no wider war." The French civilians seem have taken the worst of the casualties from the allied invasion, possibly numbering as many as ten thousand men women and children thus engendering questions on why this campaign has even been undertaken, and calling into question if the planning was adequately completed to ensure the mitigation of anguish upon the innocent French people. There is a report by unnamed sources that Gen. DeGaulle, the US's partner with the so called "Free French Forces" was not even informed prior to the start of hostilities.

There has been no proof found that Hitler has ever intended to attack America directly or if he even really intended to invade England as maintained by President Roosevelt and his Administration. Opposition within the Congress still insists the United States should work through the League of Nations for a peaceful resolution to the conflict. Vichy France, the government recognized by the mainland European Union, has maintained that it did not want the US to intervene directly stating that sanctions still needed time to take effect on Germany before armed conflict was initiated by allied forces.

"The news couldn't be better," Adolph Hitler said when he was first informed of the D-Day assault earlier this afternoon. "As long as they were in Britain we couldn't get at them. Now we have them where we can destroy them."

German minister Goebbels had been told of the Allied airborne landings at 0400 hours. "Thank God, at last," he said. "This is the final round."

52 chris_l  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 12:30:46pm

I found this post at the HistoryChannel.com a few years ago. It was by a guy who was leading a bunch of high school students to visit DC and one of their stops was the Iwo Jima memorial. They happened to run into James Bradley whose dad was one of the guys in the famous picture of the flag being raised on Mt Suribachi.

If you can read this without getting misty - then you are a better man than me.

Link

53 sawadee63  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 12:31:12pm

Iwo Jima is an interesting comparison but for an entirely different reason. First of all I have severe doubts whether we could have waged a successful war with the anti-American attitude of both the media and the opposition politcal party that we are saddled with today. In Iwo Jima we lost well over 6000 soldiers in a liitle over a month compared to our current loss of about 1500 (and a good chunk of those losses were due to non-combat chopper accidents) for the entire war in a little less than two years in Iraq.

Imagine reporters of the Kevin Sites ilk reporting that Marines on Iwo Jima were shooting Japanese snipers who were feigning death. Imagine the opposition party screaming about the 'unacceptable' casualties and about the 'wrong war' or 'show us Hitler's secret weapons. Where are they?' Imagine film crews sympathetic to the Nazis and Japanese showing endless videos of civilian casualties caused by American 'barbarians'. Imagine local reporters shoving microphones into the faces of recently widowed, grieving wives asking them 'was it worth it?' Imaqine perceived allies consorting with the enemy. And, finally, imagine an opposition presidential candidate who also consorted with the enemy and ALMOST WON!

54 Ojoe  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 1:39:43pm

No.53 sawadee63: After the next attack here in the USA the nefarious domestic influences you have mentioned above will melt away. On the other hand, why didn't they after 9-11? I, personally, am still seething about it. I want to tear the balls off the islamic extremists. I will go to my grave wanting to tear their balls off.

55 SwampWoman  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 3:14:26pm

I lived outside the little town of Sacaton, Arizona, where Ira Hayes was from for a little while. May God give him the rest he never found in life.

56 Connecticut Yankee  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 3:31:25pm

#50-51 rsquare

Thank you for posting that-- my dad was a veteran of D-Day (paratrooper, 82nd Airborne). Much as I miss him, I'm glad he didn't live to see today's MSM.

And to all the vets on this thread-- thank you again for your service and God bless you.

57 yochanan  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 4:06:50pm

Like my father who was at pearl harbor on that dec 7th. Never did I hear a word from him about it.
They had a job and they did it.

I am sure they talked to other vets. I am sure my cousin and my father were talking about things I would not understand as they would get quiet when I entered the room. My cousin had been in Nam.

When I asked my father about Pearl Harbor all he said is I would not understand. 30 years after my father died I went to a navy mus. in Bellingham Washington, A good 1/3 of the mus. was about the ship my father servied on the USS ENTERPRISE. I got a education on what he went through.

58 Sol Roth  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 4:38:13pm

To cower in fear of global political or homeland economic destabilization has projected fear and weakness to our enemies.

While we honor those who have given all that they have in service to our freedom, we fall short in doing their sacrifice justice by not having meted out an overwhelmingly disproportionate response to the cancer that caused 9/11.

We will continue to suffer and to ask why until that day.

59 okimutt  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 4:55:39pm

#5-Mickthemick- There were plenty of jackals around back
then. From Bill D. Ross's Legacy of Valor:


On February27, Hearst's San Francisco Examiner printed a frontpage editorial with a heavy black border. It said Marines
certainly would capture Iwo Jima but "there is awesome ev-
idence in the situation that the attacking American forces are
paying heavily for the island, perhaps too heavily."...
In an unmistakable attack on the leadership of Admiral
Nimitz and General Smith, tirade continued: "It is the same thing that happened at Tarawa and Saipan. If it continues the
American forces are in danger of being worn out before they
ever reach the really critical Japanese areas." In Tokyo and on
Iwo there was no doubt that the island was "really critical" to
the Japanese, that it would be defended to the last man, and
that many more thousands of Americans would fall in the fight-
ing.

Hearst wrote another editorial on the 28th in favor of MacArthur
for overall Pacific Commander that resulted in the storming of
the Examiner by nearly 100 Marines. With Hearst's chain of
newspapers, wire services, radio stations and magazines shill-
ing this crap the end result was this, again from Legacy of Valor:
"Please, for God's sake, stop sending our finest youth to be murdered on places like Iwo Jima. It is too much for boys to
stand, too much for mothers to take. It is driving some mothers crazy. Why can't objectives be accomplished in some
other way? It is almost inhuman- stop, stop!"

That was released by Sec. Forrestal's office. So, I guess Hearst
considered his efforts a rousing success.

60 Ojoe  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 6:46:31pm

No. 58 Sol Roth you are exactly right.

61 WestPack  Sat, Feb 19, 2005 8:01:06pm

My uncle Bill was a PFC., 3/I/14, 4th MarDiv and in the 4th wave on Feb 19, 1945 60 years ago this day in the IwoJima assault. He survived, and when he came home in Dec. 45, after 2 1/2 years in the Pacific participating in all the operations of the 4th MarDiv, he was just 19 1/2 years old.

I'm thinking of you this day. One of my heroes.

Semper fidelis

Jerry
3rdBn, 9th Marines, 3rdMarDiv
VN 67-68


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