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-RetweetLebanese Protest Tyranny

Mon, Feb 21, 2005 at 8:46:17 am PST

An amazing transformation seems to be taking place in Lebanon: Thousands in Lebanon Protest Government. (Hat tip: Andy.)

Protesters wore scarves of red and white _ the colors of Lebanon’s flag _ which have become the symbol of the opposition’s “independence uprising,” described as a peaceful campaign to dislodge the pro-Syrian government and force the Syrian army out of Lebanon.

Some protesters carried banners reading, “Independence,” and chanted, “The government of puppets must fall” and “Enough blood, leave us alone.”

The crowd was estimated in the tens of thousands, with many converging on downtown Beirut from all parts of the Lebanese capital.

“It is my civic duty as a Lebanese to take part in this uprising,” said Youssef Mukhtar, a 47-year-old engineer. “Enough bloodshed and disasters. It is the 21st century, and people should be able to govern themselves. The situation has become unbearable and we have to regain our country.”

Many held pictures of Hariri and sang patriotic songs. Some protesters held a copy of the Quran in one hand and the cross in another hand to signify Muslim-Christian national unity.

Thanks to George W. Bush, the Middle East’s days of tyranny are numbered. This is a process that will be impossible to stop.

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171 comments

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1 Jewels (AKA Julian)  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:46:52am

spotted this lat night. ain't it grand

2 Shira  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:47:40am

Yes!

3 Hari Seldon  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:48:09am

remind anyone of the orange revolution?

4 Golden Jerusalem  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:48:23am

Ah yes, I believe I was on about that a couple of times earlier...

5 Sir Lurksalot  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:48:37am

Ummm, this would have happened even without George W's policies.

Just like Libya giving up their nuclear program.

//moonbat denying reality.

6 noshariaincanada  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:49:16am

The *new* Domino Theory :)

7 Norwegian kafir  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:49:28am

Hello, guys. I've finally managed to pull myself together and make a blog of my own. I don't know how frequent the updates will be in the beginning, but here's my very first post:

Muslim Rape Epidemic in Sweden and Norway - Authorities Look the Other Way

The conclusion one may draw from this is that the authorities in Sweden and Norway know about, or should know about, a disturbing amount of Muslim immigrant rapes of native Scandinavian women, yet choose not to make this information known to the public. Perhaps it would be just too politically incorrect to reveal the negative effects of decades of naïve immigration policies. Perhaps it would also destroy too many multicultural pipe dreams among the intellectual elites, who have built their current careers and reputations on advocating how culturally and economically enriching this new population mix would be. So in the end, the safety of young Scandinavian women is sacrificed in order to keep the glossy image of a multicultural society intact. It is a chilling demonstration of an Eurabian continent that now appears to care more about not upsetting relations with its immigrant population than about protecting its own citizens.

8 doppelganglander  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:49:52am

What do you think are the odds of the French supporting the independence movement in Lebanon?

9 Golden Jerusalem  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:50:29am
remind anyone of the orange revolution?

Except the Ukrainian military wouldn't murder their fellow Slavs.

Don't expect the same level of restraint when it comes to Syrian occupation forces and their Arab Lebanese brothers!

10 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:50:48am
Some protesters held a copy of the Quran in one hand and the cross in another hand to signify Muslim-Christian national unity.

Fatwa coming in 10...9...8...7...6...

11 BabbaZee  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:50:52am

Bush gave a boss speech to the Phlegmish this morning as well - telegraphing all sorts of intent.
They are all out pissing on his face now in their local urinals.
Critical mass approaches.

12 mglazer  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:51:31am

Which will fall first Lebanon or Iran!?

I hope both!

But specifically the Lebanese have suffered a lot including their dwinlding Christian community

13 BabbaZee  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:51:38am

#7 Norwegian kafir

Mazel Tov Fjordman good stuff

14 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:51:40am

#8 doppelganglander

Uh, somewhere between none and zero?

15 Luigi  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:52:00am
16 Bad Penny  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:52:02am

Pretty cool. Who woulda thunk that GWB would be the guy to ignite the desire for freedom and self governance among the peoples of the middle east? Just bloody amazing.

17 Powderfinger  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:52:02am

Stop The Occupation! US Syria out of Iraq Lebanon NOW!

Democracy has gone rampant. The Middle East is spiralling into control. The left can't even take a position on this. Baby Assad needs a diaper change.

Karl Rove, you magnificent bastard...

18 Golden Jerusalem  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:52:09am

#8:

Actually, the French have interests in Leb which may contrast with Syria's.

Financial ones.

Thus, they voted for Res 1559 to boot Syrian forces out.

19 mglazer  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:52:20am

The Ivory Coast also needs help from W

No cocoa for blood!

20 pajamazon  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:52:50am

Somebody's gotta stop this before Europe finds out!

21 saylorfam  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:53:12am

Sounds very much to me like the beginnings of the Sounds of Freedom Flashing... This is going to get very interesting and hopefully inspiring to the neighboring nations.

22 Golden Jerusalem  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:53:55am

This is all very suspicious.

I sense the involvement of the Mossad, the CIA and the Elders of Zion.

23 RIP Ford  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:54:07am

#7 Norwegian kafir

I've finally managed to pull myself together and make a blog of my own.

Excellent!

24 Joel  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:54:12am

7 NorwegianKafr

The Islamic rape of Scandianvian women has been going on for a while. The Politically Correct Norwegian authorities seem to like to blame the women themselves.

25 Golden Jerusalem  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:55:14am

Well, my enemy's enemy, right?

Go on, you Lebanese, you've got plenty of guns n' ammo.

Now turn 'em on your Arab brothers.

26 BabbaZee  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:55:22am

#22 Golden Jerusalem

ixnay on the ossadmay

new instructions:
make a left at the japanese rabbi
operation heeb-ho
out

:-)

Good morning Joel

27 ballantrae  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:55:30am

Charles I don't agree with your last line that "the days of tyranny are ended". Doesn't anyone remmeber Tianamen Square?

If Syria loses the will, only then can Lebanon rule itself. But if they start shooting, who will stop them? We won't.

-ron

28 Tgregg  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:56:00am

It's clear that the whole muslim tyranny is part of a Karl Rove conspiracy to make Bush look good by cleaning it up. Rove is some kind of madman genius!

29 Joel  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:56:07am

Despite the growing underclass of Muslim criminals, the Scandianvian countries have all joined in full membership the hate Israel club. Israel should laugh in their faces.

30 Eagle  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:56:20am

#6 noshariaincanada

Perfect!

***
Cross my fingers. Liban might become a country where Muslims and Christians can live in peace & harmony.

I want to believe it.

31 Beagle  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:56:27am
It is the 21st century, and people should be able to govern themselves.

I guess Zeina Karam couldn't find even one person to say something bad about the United States? Arabists in the State Department should be given their walking papers, and there are thousands who should lose their pensions.

32 Joel  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:56:50am

26 BabbaZee

Good morning. Since I work for a Canadian owned company, I have to work today, darn it!

33 Texas Tony  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:57:21am

Depending on how this situation plays out, I think you will see more activism in Iran.

34 MJ  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:57:25am

Not everyone is happy that Lebanon is protesting tryanny- the
UN, for example, sent the Jew-hating Lakhdar Brahimi to meet with Hezbollah. No doubt the purpose of the meeting was to give UN's blessing for continued attacks against Israel and it's blessing for continued Syrian occupation.


Annan Envoy Visits Hezbollah Leader
BENNY AVNI
BY Special to the Sun
February 18, 2005


UNITED NATIONS - Secretary-General Annan's personal envoy yesterday paid his respects to Syria's and Iran's allies in Lebanon after attending the funeral of slain opposition leader Rafik Hariri Wednesday, which turned into a huge demonstration against the Syrian occupation.

The most controversial of Lakhdar Brahimi's courtesy calls was with the leader of the terrorist organization Hezbollah, Sheikh Mohamed Hussein Fadlallah, who was described yesterday by U.N. spokesman Fred Eckhard merely as "a senior Shiite cleric."

The designation of Hezbollah as a terrorist organization has become part of the latest trans-Atlantic rift, with Washington pressuring the European Union to add the Iranian and Syrian-backed organization to its list of terror groups. At a meeting in Paris just prior to Hariri's assassination on Monday, Israeli foreign minister Silvan Shalom failed to convince President Chirac to do so.

Mr. Brahimi, a longtime U.N. aide and a former Arab League official, is no stranger to pro-Syrian politics in Lebanon. As the League's representative, in fact, he was responsible for securing the 1989 TAIF accord, which has served as Syria's pretext to continue its occupation of Lebanon ever since. In addition to Mr. Fadlallah, he paid courtesy visits yesterday on President Emile Lahoud, Speaker Nabih Berry, Prime Minister Omar Karame, and For eign Minister Mahmoud Hammoud, Mr. Eckhard said.

The Syrian-backed extension of Mr. Lahoud's term in office last fall in violation of Lebanon's constitution was the reason the U.N. Security Council passed resolution 1559, which called on all foreigners to stop interfering in Lebanon and withdraw their troops.
More here: [Link: www.nysun.com...]

35 Golden Jerusalem  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:57:26am

Rafik Hariri was a shit.

He kissed Hezballah ass. He got whacked because he made a little noise and the Syrians apparently disliked that.

He was no saint, no friend of ours or yours.

But hell, if his death can set off some dominos fallin' on the Imbecile Son in Damascus, hey, great.

36 BabbaZee  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:58:16am

#27 ballantrae

People, nations, ideologies can "borrow" the will of others
Will is like a snowball rolling downhill
once it's going it is always growing and it becomes very difficult to stop

The world is different today than in the days of Tianamen
but that too is connected

the point of power is now
pray for them to succeed

37 T. Jefferson  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:59:27am

At the rate things are going the rest of the world will be free and the idiot left will manage to enslave America. Will someone come bail us out?


:-)

38 BabbaZee  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 6:59:32am

#32 Joel

Pinko Commie Degenerates! LOL!

39 Joel  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:00:24am

35 Golden Jerusalem

All Lebanese politicians are shit. Ariel Sharon and Menachem Begin foolishly thought that Bashir Gemayel was going to be a friend and ally of Israel too. He was nothing of the sort.

40 Norwegian kafir  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:00:42am

#28:

It's clear that the whole muslim tyranny is part of a Karl Rove conspiracy to make Bush look good by cleaning it up. Rove is some kind of madman genius!

Karl Rove eats a lot of Lutefisk, that's why.

41 Patrizio  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:01:05am

Witness history.

I might add that I just saw on the Ha'aretz wire that about five hundred protesters have gathered again in Cairo to protest Mubarak's bid for a fifth undisputed term.

I think there's a good chance there won't be a dictatorial succession in Egypt. My humble prediction is that in about seven years the Middle East will be the most pro-American, fastest-growing region of the world.

42 Golden Jerusalem  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:01:33am

Also, inexplicably, Hariri was perfectly capable of working with the Syrians for more than a decade.

His so-called "anti-Syria" stance was all politics to form a power base against Lahoud.

43 kmclay  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:01:42am

freedom is on the march.

44 Joel  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:01:47am

38 BabbaZee

Outside of that, they are not so bad! Nobody is really working hard today and teh Duane Reade store where I normally buy my shmattas there was no line. Teh subway was deserted pretty much as well.

45 Bad Penny  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:02:01am

Norwegian Kafir

Congrats on the new blog. Maybe a european-based blog on Europe's impending dhimmi-hood will help open some more eyes in Europe.

46 realwest  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:02:44am

Haven't had a chance to read all the comments yet, so I apologize if someone else picked this up:

“Enough bloodshed and disasters. It is the 21st century, and people should be able to govern themselves"

Dividends from Iraq already!

47 John Tiller  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:02:51am

I watch Bush's speech from Brussells this morning. He is clearly one of the best at articulating why slimey little dictators have to go.

48 Hari Seldon  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:02:52am
Except the Ukrainian military wouldn't murder their fellow Slavs.

true but that wont make em ne more likely to succed...remember when the people are really po'ed the gov't can't stop the inevtible

49 Golden Jerusalem  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:03:32am

#39:

Gemayel actually signed a peace accord with Israel.

He was too weak though and so he was whacked.

Thinking about this, I wonder why anyone would wanna be PM in Lebanon.

You're bound to retire in an unpleasant way.

50 Dave the.....  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:03:59am

Once the communist block countries started to change, things happened fast.

Maybe we'll see the same here. At least in those countries with some civilized traditions (Iraq, Lebenon, etc). Not holding my breath on some of the others.

51 BabbaZee  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:04:19am

#47 John Tiller

It was an excellent speech.

52 Terp Mole  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:04:43am
#5 Ummm, this would have happened even without George W's policies. Just like Libya giving up their nuclear program.


Even the hapless Hans Blix speculated that ''I would imagine that Gaddafi could have been scared by what he saw in Iraq.''

But why speculate when Kaddafi admitted it himself;
"I will do whatever the Americans want, because I saw what happened in Iraq, and I was afraid."

53 Model4  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:04:44am

Any news of liberals opposing the horrors of occ-yoo-pay-shun(!) when it comes to Lebanon? Or, more likely, could they not care less since there's no angle to attack America or Jews over this?

#27 ballantrae:

If Syria loses the will, only then can Lebanon rule itself. But if they start shooting, who will stop them? We won't.

Not so sure about that. Syria needs a good whacking, and that would seem like an ideal way to get the ball rolling. Might be too "good" an opportunity to pass up.

54 Joel  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:04:56am

Golden Jerusalem, BabbaZee

As usual, Fouad Ajami has the best sense regarding Lebanon (he was born there by the way).

Death of a Businessman

Lebanon (my birthplace, I should add) may never have been as pretty as its tales. It may never have been the "Paris of the Mediterranean," and its modernism may have been skin-deep at times. But it was and remains a vibrant Arab country of open ways, a place for refugees and dissidents, a country where Arab modernity made a stand, and where Christians and Muslims built a culture of relative compromise.
55 american soldier  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:05:11am

#16
The man's an actual leader- HOOAH!

OT,
for anyone near NCentral Indiana today: Protest against the morons
[Link: herbertsobel.blogspot.com...]

56 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:06:07am

#15 Luigi

Great map.

Hook 'em Horns!

57 Walpurgis Knight  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:06:45am

Related:

Syrian Troops to Exit Lebanon

The Lebanese activism seems to be bearing fruit. We shall see if the Syrians make good on their word. If so, it is yet another momentous event yielded by the Bush Doctrine.

58 BabbaZee  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:07:04am

#39 Joel

I doubt Sharon ever thought of any arab leader as a friend.
However when you lead nations, sometimes you are forced into positions were you must have this appear to be the case.

59 grayp  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:08:07am

Watch for some more targeted assassinations of Lebanese politicians (who is that Druze guy? Walid Jamblatt?) Syria will not go, quietly or otherwise. Here used to be a small city called Hama that is now a parking lot.

fjordman, good work! (I think I'm your first commenter).

60 Joel  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:08:26am

49 Golden Jerusalem

You are wrong. Israel was pressuring him to sign a peace treaty but he never did. He knew that while he might want it, the majority of the Lebanese would not go for it. It is also foolish for Israel to have put its hope in on one indiivdual.

The Lebanon War


"On August 23, Bashir Gemayel was elected the President of Lebanon. Israel hoped that a Lebanese-Israeli peace treaty was on the horizon. A multinational peacekeeping force arrived in Lebanon in order to supervise the departure of the PLO. By September 1, 1982, over 14,000 armed PLO forces had left Beirut. PLO headquarters was transferred to Tunis, Tunisia.

The evacuation of the PLO failed to bring stability to conflict-ridden Lebanon and Christian-Palestinian tensions remained high. On September 14, 1982, President Bashir Gemayel was assassinated. On September 16, without obtaining prior cabinet approval, Sharon and Eitan moved Israeli troops into West Beirut and permitted Christian Phalangist forces to enter the Palestinian refugee camps of Sabra and Shatila with the purpose of routing out remaining PLO forces that had evaded evacuation. The Phalangist militias, however, massacred Palestinian civilians. "

61 quark2  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:09:08am

@2 shira

Hi ya! : )

@7 Norwegian kafir

It's about time ! Bookmarked. : )


The scenario I see, is like a small seed that is dropped into a tiny crack in hard concrete, and as it pops open and then begins to grow into a plant it causes more cracks to appear. Looks as though the ripples of democracy starting up in Iraq are having wide reaching effects.

62 foreign devil  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:09:28am

They are applying against the occupiers, the same tactics they've seen Americans use in their own democracy to protest things they don't like. IT'S CATCHING!

63 alegrias  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:10:15am

Bush is gutsy to go like Daniel into the catty lion's den on Presidents' Day no less to ignite footdragging Euro couch potates. Viva la Bush revolution of the Middle East. It's on fire!

64 Joel  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:10:30am

58 BabbaZee

The Gemayels were a bad wager. They were corrupt gangsters who were expert at playing one side (Isreal) off against teh otehr (Palestinians). Th ebrother of Bashir was eleected President of Lebanon and became a Syrian stooge. Bashire probably would have stabbed Israel in the back when the time was propititious.

65 peggie  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:10:38am

syria has 1.4 million citizens in lebanon. the economics work for syria. what about the conrol of the bekka valley.

66 pajamazon  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:12:08am

Let's see...
On one hand it looks like there's a spark of freedom that is spreading throught areas like the middle-east that no one thought possible one year ago!
On the other hand, this would mean that George W. Bush might have had a point all along...

"SCREW the Lebanese!"

67 Joel  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:12:38am

Mea culpa

Actually Bashir did sign an agreement with Israel but after his assasination it was renounced.

Nevertheless, Syria found other ways to hurt Israel. In 1982, Syrian agents murdered President-elect Bashir Gemayel, who wanted peace with Israel. Two years later, Syria forced President Amin Gemayel, Bashir's brother, to renege on a peace treaty he signed with Israel a year earlier.
68 Jheka  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:13:59am

Bush's speech this morning was outstanding. He has the clearest, most forceful, most ambitious vision for the Middle East of any president since ... ever. The pressure that he is putting on Egypt and Saudi Arabia to institute democratic reforms and stop the spread of hate and terrorism is unprecedented. And yes, as someone mentioned upthread, success by the people of Lebanon might signify a tipping point for Iran. It's an impressive vision. The question is, does he have enough time left to realize it?

69 Dale43  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:14:13am

#33: Texas Tony - I think you are right on. Just checking out the Iraq the Model, they link to a story about The Price for Blogging in Iran.

With this going on and the already existant unrest of the Iranian students and others in Iran over the mullahs posture with them, this repression of their own 'free speech', along with the rapidly building fire in Lebanon, may trigger far greater events - and quickly. A watch and wait. However, our own support offers them greater opportunity to move as well.

Just a thought.

70 BabbaZee  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:14:23am

#64 Joel
Agreed. But the reality of human nature is that these people exist on very high levels, which makes it impossible to lead nations without encountering it -
it is what it is - I just personally think that Sharon knows it better than any one

71 foreign devil  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:15:34am

"...Some protesters held a copy of the Quran in one hand and the cross in another hand to signify Muslim-Christian national unity..."

If Lebanon can get free of the occupiers, they may even have a thing or two to show the rest of the Middle East. They KNOW Christians and Muslims can live together. They've PROVEN it. All they want now is to be free to have the chance to prove it once again. They are presently taking their cues from not only Iraq, but the Americans themselves. They want their freedom back and when they get it this time, they won't lose it again. Now they know how much it's worth! They can teach the rest of the Middle East the valuable lesson of peace and productivity rather than destruction and depression and economic stagnation.

72 Smit  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:16:53am

Three reasons why the US and Europe won't make up

Perhaps more importantly, large Muslim populations (especially in France and Germany) have subtly shifted European attitudes towards the Middle East, the world's geopolitical hub. Traditional Arabophile tendencies on the part of European diplomatic elites have been reinforced by politicians fearful of alienating Muslim constituents if they adhere too closely to the US. In some quarters, European hostility to Israel has become more strident, sometimes (at least to American ears) even anti-semitic.

As a "European" I say this European ideal is stupid & dangerous.

73 Bob with one O  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:16:58am

Is it not ironic that we would use our own version of the "Domino Theory" against our enemies?

74 Globular Cluster  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:17:32am

People see freedom in Iraq and are demanding it at home. If Syria ends its unlawful imperialist occupation of Lebanon it will be a momentous occasion. The Iraq policy is bearing fruit, and the reactionary opposition among Leftists is withering on the vine.

We can all thank John Kerry for his ingratiating visit to Syria's thugocracy. Now it is time to move on with Freedom.

75 realwest  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:19:31am

#7 Norwegian kafir (Fjordman) love your blog and left a comment.

76 Joel  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:19:33am

70 BabbaZee

Sharon has actually grown since the disastrous days when he was Defense Minister. After a slow start in fighting Palestinian terrorism after he became PM in Feb. 2001, he finally got wise, launched Defensive Shield, expanded the assasinations and targetted killings, isolated Arafat, and most importantly in my opinion -started work on the security fence. The proof of his success is the way he has been villified by the enemies of Israel on the left and palecon Buchannanite Right..

77 Norwegian kafir  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:19:42am

#7 BabbaZee, #23 RIP Ford, #45 Bad Penny, #62 quark2:

Thank you for kind words.

#24 Joel: Yes, this has happened for some time. But I thought I would collect some of the information I had gathered about it. Norwegian and Swedish media are very quiet about any connections between rape and Muslim immigration.

78 alegrias  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:20:03am

Anyone in Lebanon selling buttons, pins or T-shirts with purple index fingers yet? Bring on the Purple revolution. I want to see more pictures of smiling old women voting.

79 BabbaZee  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:20:14am

damn the imperious clarity inherent in the hempocracy of the unnuanced

Posted these yesterday & I heard Zulu had posted it about a month ago but it bears re-posting

Brigette Gabriel, Lebanese Woman Warrior Supreme

[Link: www.americancongressfortruth.com...]
[Link: www.phyllis-chesler.com...]

80 FabioC.  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:20:43am

So maybe the "domino scenario" is happening, after some latency - what I would call an induction time.

The rest of 2005 will be a pretty interesting time, I'd say.

81 Beagle  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:20:56am

#68 Jheka

The question is, does he have enough time left to realize it?

I've always liked the two-term limit. I never thought George W. Bush would make me reconsider. In 1999, I would have laughed at anyone who suggested it. "The Governor of Texas?!" "You must be crazy!"
*eats crow*

Hopefully, the next president will continue along the same track. Decades of funding dictators and pretending the subject populations in the Middle East actually like tyrrany was making things degrade, not winning friends and influencing people.

President Bush turned out to be a visionary risk-taking idealist. Who'da thunkit?

82 Globular Cluster  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:21:00am
Bush's speech this morning was outstanding. He has the clearest, most forceful, most ambitious vision for the Middle East of any president since ... ever. The pressure that he is putting on Egypt and Saudi Arabia to institute democratic reforms and stop the spread of hate and terrorism is unprecedented. And yes, as someone mentioned upthread, success by the people of Lebanon might signify a tipping point for Iran. It's an impressive vision. The question is, does he have enough time left to realize it?

So wonderful that this is just the beginning of Bush's four year term!

83 psaturn  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:23:28am

The moonbats are not acknowledging this Syrian tyranny and occupation and even with the UN command to Syria that they leave Lebanon.

But they are still insisting Israel to leavel all occupied lands...talking about double standards !

84 Carl in Jerusalem  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:23:37am

Charles,

I'm afraid that while the process may be inevitable, it's going to take an awfully long time unless GWB and the American people are willing to commit an awful lot of troops here. While Qadaffi may be scared by seeing what the US did in Iraq, and while Syria with its 1970's vintage weaponry may back off in Lebanon, I think it will take a lot more to bring down regimes like Egypt, Saudi Arabia and for that matter even Jordan, all of which have been heavily armed by generations of American Presidents.

Those regimes are in a much stronger position to hold out longer.

85 Beagle  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:24:51am

Norwegian kafir,

You've pulled together more resources than the average MSM reporter does all week. I noticed your penchant for research when you used to post dozens of articles on LGF. See my comments at your blog.

#79 BabbaZee

damn the imperious clarity inherent in the hempocracy of the unnuanced


That has rotating title potential.

86 lidsville  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:25:29am

I approve of E V E R Y T H I N G George Bush is doing to reshape the middle east. Bush will go down in history as the 'Father of Middle Eastern Democracy'.

87 Dave the.....  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:25:35am
Bush's speech this morning was outstanding. He has the clearest, most forceful, most ambitious vision for the Middle East of any president since ... ever.


Bush has made some great speaches dealing with foriegn policy. More specifically fighting terrorism and promoting freedom/democracy.

Does anyone recall any Clinton speeches on these subjects?

Imagine a President Kerry going to Europe today and kissing up to them.

88 christheprofessor  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:26:18am

Given Bush's successes and the world's general shift toward democracy and reality (barking moonbats notwithstanding), I wonder what the world would be like today if - gasp - Al Gore had been succesful in stealing the 2000 election.

Too damned scary to contemplate...

89 BabbaZee  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:27:06am

#85 Beagle
kvelling with validation

90 Globular Cluster  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:27:15am
President Bush turned out to be a visionary risk-taking idealist. Who'da thunkit?

Exactly! He has really found his stride, and at the same time he remains humble. For the first time I actually have some hope for the ME and must add, the semblance of a better world. All of this is only possible with a very high degree of faith, moral clarity, courage, and decisiveness -- virtues the President has in spades.

91 psaturn  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:27:41am

Norwegian Kafir: Good Blog !

I linked your article in a bodybuilding site that has Nordic folks and they may be interested !

92 Bob with one O  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:28:23am

Dave the...

"I feel your pain."

93 alegrias  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:28:42am

OT but more Bush doctrine dividends in Olde Europe: Sunday's NYT article by Craig Smith about European Jooos shifting to the right instead of clinging to islamofascist-supporting left parties. (can't link, sorry)

...and the walls come a tumblin' down... (Song and Dance man, where are you?)

94 BabbaZee  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:29:13am

#86 lidsville

Many of the relatives of the Iraquis from the mass grave sites began referring to GWB as "avenger of the bones" a couple of years back.
I love it!

95 Lizard By The Bay  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:32:15am

OT:

Hunter S. Thompson has comitted suicide.

I can't say that I agreed with his politics even half the the time, but his writings almost never failed to entertain me. I will say of him what he once said of his "attorney": "(He was) one of God's own prototypes; too weird to live, too rare to die."

Hopefully, he has found peace.

96 Terp Mole  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:33:03am

INTERVIEW WITH SAMI AL-KHIYAMI, SYRIAN AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED KINGDOM, DISCUSSING US-SYRIAN RELATIONS
(AL JAZEERA TV, 22:04 (GMT+2) FEB. 17, 2005)
Federal News Service
February 19, 2005 Saturday
(Note: The following was translated from Arabic)

SAMI AL-KHIYAMI: It seems that it was not understood that the Lebanese authorities are those who actually decide the Syrian withdrawals or the Syrian re- deployments. So we are under the command of the Lebanese, because the Syrian forces in Lebanon are there in order to guarantee the safety and stability and security of Lebanon - especially in these hard times.


Will Syria commit to leave, if Lebanon asks?

That's the question the MSM insisted Bush answer in Iraq!

97 BabbaZee  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:33:56am

#76 Joel

I am one of the few left with faith in him.

98 alegrias  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:34:12am

Gore & Kerry would have spent time precious time swilling chablis & inhaling Brie with the swells & EU smugocracy & paliapologists, or is that not inhaling nor swallowing, just being there?

99 zuckerlilly  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:34:32am

Sorry for OT, but can this be possible?

PROF SPENDS 22 HOURS IN JAIL FOR WALKING MED SCHOOL PROFESSOR ARRESTED ON PERIPHERY OF PEACEFUL ANTI-BUSH PROTEST

by April Antonellis CONTRIBUTING WRITER

A class of psychiatry students in the School of Medicine went to their lecture Sept. 1 as they would on any other day and waited for their professor. they would on any other day and waited for their professor. Unlike most days, he never showed up.


A board at the Hudson Valley Veteran's Hospital also waited patiently for its medical ethics expert to appear for a consultation. He, too, was nowhere to be found. Jay Kantor, an NYU professor, could not make either appearance, because he was incarcerated in a jail in lower Manhattan. Kantor, who has taught medical ethics and psychiatry at NYU for 18 years, left his Brooklyn home Aug. 31 with only a small digital camera and a ballpoint pen. Kantor had heard about a peaceful protest underway at ground zero that afternoon, and decided he wanted to "add a body" to it. He got off the subway just before 4 p.m. near the World Trade Center site, and moments later he was ordered onto a sidewalk and handcuffed by police. "There was no reason for this. It was absolutely peaceful stuff," Kantor said. "All of the sudden they came up and told us we were detained." It was only 4:02 p.m. "New York is the upholder of rights, the center of freedom," Kantor said. "It shocked me."

Interview

100 JavaMan  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:34:38am

What naval forces do we have in the Mediterranean right now? Moving a carrier group up along the Lebanese coast would provide some encouragement right about now...

101 Terp Mole  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:34:49am

CNN has protest video.

102 Miss Trixie  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:36:20am

I am sooo impressed with George W Bush! American citizens should really count themselves as fortunate to have a leader who inspires in countries thousands of miles away.

I heart dubya!

Oh, and OT just for fun:

If electricity comes from electrons, where exactly do we get morality?

If someone is allergic to eggs, how come he can eat chicken?

If someone took a good look at our solar system, could we see Uranus?

Who was the first person to say, "See that chicken over there ... I'm gonna eat the first thing that comes out if its butt"?

"Have you ever noticed that if you rearranged the letters in mother in law, they come out to "Woman Hitler?"

Can mute people belch?

Is Jerry Garcia grateful to be dead?

Do pyromaniacs wear blazers?

If you don't pay your exorcist, do you get repossessed?

If a bunch of cats jump on top of each other, is it still called a dog pile?

:D

103 SlothB77  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:36:28am

Perhaps, since we over there anyway, we can *help* the Lebanese a little bit, give them some support?

104 alegrias  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:37:20am

Loved Bush's joked he would have liked to be received in Europe as Benjamin Franklin was 200 years ago--like a rock star--but someone told him to face reality. (apologies but it was great.)

105 foreign devil  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:37:42am

#79 Baba Zee:

Brigitte Gabriel - Lebanese Warrior Supreme

and a BABE, too!

106 reader  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:38:12am

Norwegian Kaffir,

Islam is all about rape. I sometimes think it is its defining feature. In inhabits the entire ethos. If ever there was a symbol for Islam, it would be this (they should put it on their disgusting flag, right next to the sword). Its what the Muslim slave trade was and still is mostly about, where historically, female slaves were chosen over male two to one, then often placed in concubines. According to Ibn Warraq, and I know you probably know this, the Koran says nothing about punishment for rape. What kind of religion permits rape? Perhaps the same kind of religion that permits slavery. Imagine that, a rapist, slaver prophet -- such a wonderful religion!

Good work.

107 Joel  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:38:29am

97 BabbaZee

He is far from perfect but I cannot think of any other Israeli politician who could have done better.

108 BabbaZee  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:38:32am

#105 foreign devil

Big time. A friend of mine went to Georgetown with her ~ he got nowhere! LOL!

109 BenJeremy  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:39:06am

#67 Joel -


Nevertheless, Syria found other ways to hurt Israel. In 1982, Syrian agents murdered President-elect Bashir Gemayel, who wanted peace with Israel. Two years later, Syria forced President Amin Gemayel, Bashir's brother, to renege on a peace treaty he signed with Israel a year earlier.

Hmmm... my math must be off here...

How could Bashir sign a peace treaty a year after he was assassinated?

I'm guessing Amin signed the treaty.

110 J.D.  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:42:03am

alegrias
Yes, that's it! Then W said

"Secretary Rice said I should be a realist."


It came off very well!

111 lidsville  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:44:10am

It amazes me as I flip back and forth between LGF and DailyKos. Here the talk is of the emerging democracy in the middle east and on KOS is all about conspiracy theories.

112 yochanan  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:44:31am

Hands off Kurdistan.
End the Turkish, Syrian & Iranian military occupation of Kurdistan.

113 Globular Cluster  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:46:37am

From Haaretz:

UK's Straw: High Suspicion that Syria is Behind Bombing

BRUSSELS - British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said Monday there was a "high level of suspicion" that Syria was involved in last week's bomb attack that killed former Lebanese prime minister Rafik Hariri.
The comments came as the European Union was set to join a call by the United States for an international probe into the killing of Hariri.
114 RIP Ford  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:47:10am

#111 lidsville

Everything is a conspiracy with those KosKidz.

115 3 wood  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:51:28am

But...but...but how can this be happening? The UN *spit* hasn't given permission for this! How can Bush be generating a wave of freedom in the middle east? We all know it was the wrong war at the wrong time in the wrong place!

//Moonbat logic

Actually, we are seeing the effect of having a decisive leader in the White House. I remember seeing an interview on TV with an Iraqi voter outside the Detroit voting location on January 30th. The interviewer made a coment that this election in Iraq was establishing freedom in Iraq for generations to come. The Iraqi voter politely corrected the interviewer and said that no, the election that established freedom In Iraq had taken place in the United States in November.

116 quark2  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:51:29am

OT

Norwegian Kufir:

Lutejfish = ewww

: )

117 RIP Ford  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:51:52am

#113 Globular Cluster

Along with Straw, King Abdullah doubts terrorists killed Hariri.
(Hat tip Colt at Eurabian Times)

Jordan's King Abdullah believes the assassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik al-Hariri was too sophisticated to have been the work of terrorists, the monarch told Spanish newspaper El Pais.

Of course, as Colt points out, this leaves room for either Syria or Israel to take the blame.

118 hans ze beeman  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:54:25am

Fantastic news.

#7: Norwegian kafir

Congratulations! I've always enjoyed reading your posts, and will continue to do so on your blog.

119 Globular Cluster  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:56:36am

#117 RIP Ford

Jordan's King Abdullah believes the assassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik al-Hariri was too sophisticated to have been the work of terrorists

Muslims said exactly the same crap after 9/11. "Arabs are too stupid to do this kind of thing!"

Definitely wasn't Israel. Motive isn't there and modus operandi is targeted assassination, not wholesale slaughter via car bomb.

120 RIP Ford  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:56:45am

#118 hans ze beeman

When are you going to get back into the blogging routine?

121 Poitiers-Lepanto  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:57:42am

#111 Lidsville

Here the talk is of the emerging democracy in the middle east and on KOS is all about conspiracy theories.

Since Freedom is the mortal enemy of the commie subversives (and of the friends of the islamofascists), that makes sense.

Screw them.

122 alegrias  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:59:34am

#100 Java man

To your question about what naval resources are in the Mediterranean right now, why not deploy Jimmy Carter's newly commissioned attack submarine to visit his ol' friend & president for life, Mubarak. Tell him the Swifties are coming so moveon.org.

123 RIP Ford  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 7:59:42am

#119 Globular Cluster

Definitely wasn't Israel. Motive isn't there and modus operandi is targeted assassination, not wholesale slaughter via car bomb.

Why let a little thing like rational thought get in the way of blaming Israel? :P

124 'Nam Grunt  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 8:01:10am

OT Hey guys the swift boat vets are putting up 10 million dollars to thwart AARP's stance on SS, FOX NEWS.

125 Joel  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 8:01:17am

109 BenJeremy

Bashir I think agreed to end the state of war with Isreal. Wheheter he signed anyting or not, I am not certain. Anywayhis assasination made it all moot. His brother Amin Gemayal was a Syrian stooge.

126 Dar ul Harb  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 8:04:51am

#86, lidsville

Way, way, OT, but has anyone else ever said they know where your nick comes from?

(Never saw the show myself, but just found it amusing that you'd pick that.)

127 alegrias  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 8:07:48am

#124 'Nam Grunt

Love you Vietnam veterans--still on duty taking down the disinformation regimes. Thank you for serving our country and making freedom possible around the world. Go Swifties or USA Next or whoever they're working with this time.

128 Dave the.....  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 8:08:25am
OT Hey guys the swift boat vets are putting up 10 million dollars to thwart AARP's stance on SS, FOX NEWS.


AARP has become a wing of the Democratic party. They brought this on themselves.

129 manker  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 8:09:23am

HAHAHAHA stupid syrians

Just a few days ago they demanded (and revised history), by saying that they would end the occupation of lebanon if Israel gave up the Golan.

Looking at syria today, they have nothing to negotiate with. The lebanonese look ready to throw them out. Their constant support for terror in Israel and Iraq has led them to be eyed for invasion by both the US army and the IDF. And assads cruelty has also led for calls that he be overthrown.

I guess syria's only hope to show that it's a true partner for peace would be to make "painful concessions" and make peace with Israel.

But to speak frankly, Israel should not give up the Golan under any circumstances. The syrian's have nothing, and this would also bolster the look of defeat already created by disengagement.

So to take a page from the UN's book. If arabs want peace (or more approprietly just want to stay alive). Give up claims on land that belongs to Israel.

And also people seriously need to give Bush more credit. He isn't perfect, but as shown by Libya, that force in one place can help make convince/inspire others just right next door.

130 Poitiers-Lepanto  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 8:15:03am

#129 Manker

force in one place can help make convince/inspire others just right next door

Bush has applied to these muslim tyrants the same logic you use to fight a gang in a street: you put down the most aggressive of the gang (in our case, the Talebans and Saddam) and you look around asking

WHO IS NEXT ?

Many, in these circumstances, have sudden inspirations and change their ways...

131 SlothB77  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 8:15:43am

Anyone see the show Cold Case last night about the Viet vet? It was on that station, oh, geez, what station was that, the one with Dan Rather, which one was that?

'Ithaca Congressman impression.

132 SlothB77  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 8:17:27am

#131

shocker the guilty person is an injured viet vet with a drug problem, the victim is a hippie draft dodger running to canada (her boyfriend is the draft dodger, she is just running with him)...

cBS

draft dodgers get all the chicks.

133 BabbaZee  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 8:19:41am

#130 Poitiers-Lepanto

My dad once told me that the best and worst in human nature can be found on a playground, and that it is the only constant in the universe that I could count on.

He was right. As usual.

134 T_IT_UP  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 8:20:18am

#86 lidsville:

I'm all for freedom and democracy in the Middle East; but I'm even more in favor of Dubya's foreign policy achievements forcing the LLL MSM moonbats to shut their yaps.

If the ME blossoms into a bastion of pro-American freedom; what will the LLL have left to b!tch about?

Oh yeah, sKerry would have done it sooner and better with the Global Stamp Of Approval. *spit*

135 jester6  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 8:20:59am

Central Europe is a good analogy. But Central America is better.

During the 1980s and 1990s the US had an aggressive foreign policy, including the use of military force throughout the region. Nicaragua, El Salvador and Panama were very unstable. We mined harbors, supported the Contras and were roundly criticized. If memory serves, some useless world court even found us in violation of international law.

The Left supported the Sandinistas, the rebels in El Salvador and to a certain extent Noriega in Panama. The intelligentsia in Europe and the US were regularly protesting US policy. The US was considered the rouge state.

Almost 20 years latter, Daniel Ortega is political a has been. The government in El Salvador did not fall. Noriega is now in a US prison. And the region is much more stable on democratic then it ever was. It certainly is not perfect, but it is far better.

It wasn't always pretty, but looking back... the Left picked the loosing side every time. Just like they are doing now.

136 Photios  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 8:21:11am

But...,but...

There was not reason for us to go into Iraq.
Arab people already have the freedom that they want.
Their government was elected by a huge margin.
[/sarc]

Even when it becomes transparently obvious, the Left™ will still not understand.

I hope that they are able to free themselve of the
Syrian monsters.

I hope that we are able to help in some way.

+Photi

137 Poitiers-Lepanto  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 8:24:48am

#133 BabbaZee

My dad once told me that the best and worst in human nature can be found on a playground

Lizards and trolls on LGF...

138 christheprofessor  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 8:26:09am

#136 Photios

Their government was elected by a huge margin.

This is true. Hussein (sp?) consistently got 105% of the vote.

139 bigel[deleted]  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 8:27:35am
140 salfter  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 8:27:46am

#24 Joel

The Islamic rape of Scandianvian women has been going on for a while. The Politically Correct Norwegian authorities seem to like to blame the women themselves.

Sounds like they're practicing for life under <spit> sharia law </spit> and being good little dhimmis.

141 Poitiers-Lepanto  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 8:28:12am

Lebanon is a quagmire !
We don't have an exit strategy !

/Kerry Ketchup talking with Assad...

Oh , by the way, we don't forget that Kerry visited Syria a few weeks ago, do we ?
And then he said that the "leaders" of the Middle East should be listened to...

Great statesman, that poodle.

142 BabbaZee  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 8:32:41am

#137 Poitiers-Lepanto
LOL!

143 Photios  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 8:33:31am

Norwegian kafir #7

Congratulations. I will bookmark it.

Why don't you put the link to in in your nic?

I am thinking of starting a blog also (what to call it...hmmm).

+Photi

144 ddd  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 8:43:01am

If we believe the british media it would blame the jews

145 quark2  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 8:55:12am

@143 Photios.

Well...we're waiting! : )

146 Powderfinger  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 8:56:37am

#130 P-L

Bush has applied to these muslim tyrants the same logic you use to fight a gang in a street: you put down the most aggressive of the gang (in our case, the Talebans and Saddam) and you look around asking

WHO IS NEXT ?

The Arab culture respects strength and sees a willingness to compromise as weakness. You start taking strongmen out, and suddenly everyone wants more than anything to not be next.

The newly announced Syrian/Iranian alliance is rapidly becoming the axis of poopy pants. Expect halfhearted defiance to be plentiful.

147 Powderfinger  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 8:58:07am

quark2, LOL!

148 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 9:00:11am

#72 Smit

the Middle East, the world's geopolitical hub

That's a hoot. That's like saying that the backwoods of Appalachia is the cultural hub of the US.

149 Jeeves  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 9:05:06am

#79 Babbazee

Thanks for the repost of Brigitte's interview. Very powerful indeed.

150 BabbaZee  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 9:07:07am

#149 Jeeves

She is a righteous woman of valor.

151 cathyf  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 9:17:29am

#72 Smit

the Middle East, the world's geopolitical hub

*snort*

More like the world's inflammed hemorrhoid...

cathy :-)

152 Photios  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 9:19:47am

Terp Mole #101

I noted that the jackasses at CNN gave 5 Paragraphs to explain that THE U.S. IS TO BLAME FOR HARIRI'S ASSASINATION.

Syrian cabinet minister Boutheina Shaaban told CNN from Damascus the assassination was "deeply against the interests of Syria." And she appeared to suggest the United States had some involvement.

"I don't like to point the finger at anyone," she said, " ... but we see it as part of destabilizing the entire region in the name of bringing democracy and freedom."

"There are some people who are trying to hijack this terrible act of terrorism in for their own political purposes," she said. "Even when they said Syria is morally responsible ... it's equivalent to saying the United States is morally responsible for 9/11. This is terrorism ... and nobody is immune to terrorism any more."

Shaaban said the assassination was an act "targeting the unity of Lebanon, the stability of Syria and the relations of Syria and Lebanon and the entire world."

"We see who has an interest in destabilizing the region, and it is not Syria," she said.

We expect this from the Syrian's, but for CNN to give such big play?

+Photi

153 Sevoguy  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 9:23:50am

Thanks to America and George W. Bush because now the words FREEDOM, DEMOCRACY and LIBERTY can be uttered. IT's what the Middle East needs to be saying right now.

Where do I donate money to fund the Lebanese Military. We should join them to destroy the Syrian Army in Lebanon right now.

24 hours to get out of Lebanon or face the consequences.

Do it NOW.

God Bless America.

154 alegrias  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 9:32:04am

#135 jester6

Glad the Sandinistas & right wing death squads are gone but Central & South America are now hotbeds exporting freemarket gangsters to the US, and Venezuela's gone stalinist and Al Qaida's laid down roots--all the better to strike at the US, el grande sugar daddy capitalista.

155 Gadfly  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 9:35:52am

Poor bastards. Hope they weren't identified by Syrian agents. Encouraging and yet bittersweet when we see those under the yoke of tyrants clamor for independence and put their lives at risk to be heard, and juxtaposed that with the "left" in Europe, the US, and Isreal who have it in spades and still can't grasp how fleeting it can be.

156 tigger2005  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 9:37:28am

It's weird, we have all these Muslims in the Middle East who sound very rational and reasonable and understand the modern, Western concept of self-government and want it for themselves. Meanwhile, we have all these Muslims in the U.S. and Europe who want to overthrow democracy and secular government and establish Islamic theocracies. What is causing this screwball situation?

157 Poitiers-Lepanto  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 9:40:51am

#146 Powderfinger

The newly announced Syrian/Iranian alliance is rapidly becoming the axis of poopy pants.

Yes, but I think we can help them A LOT on that way.

Thanks to Bush's excellent strategy, they are now sandwiched between Israel, Iraq and Afghanistan and we have our Forces positioned to do to them whatever we wish (except a land invasion ).
Some more riots in Iran would help too.

There is no future for the muslim tyrants, and they know it.

158 Poitiers-Lepanto  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 9:45:28am

#156 Tigger2005

What is causing this screwball situation?

The muslims who have moved to the West are one of the two prongs of the war of islam against Freedom (the other being "terrorism"). They are here to use our Freedom to invade, attack, conquer.

Instead some of the muslims who live under the dictatorships in the middle East know what it means to live in chains.

Hence, the difference.

159 Gadfly  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 9:52:24am

#156 tigger2005,

Perhaps the West has gotten so used to our various rights that we can't fathom not having them ALL taken away in an instant. Every year we get farther and farther away from WWII and thanks to our edukation system and PC whitewash the brutal realities are no longer taught. We would like to think the world is simply a place with some misunderstandings that with enough talk can be worked out. The reality, understood by a hopefully growing number in the West, and of course those who actually live under such systems, is that there are those who want absolute power and are fully willing to break every "rule" to get it. How to inform people of this sad state of affairs is my question. You would think that travelling to other countries would open peoples eyes, yet the Europeans generally travel far more than Americans and incredibly must be too blind to see, or be willing to acknowledge, that the world is in fact not the flower patch they think.

PS: Don't suppose you own a Sunbeam Tiger?

160 tigger2005  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 10:19:33am

#156

But so many of the Muslims who have come to America and Europe are first-generation immigrants. They've lived under tyranny, whether secular or religious, and they know what it's like. In the past, people who came to America after living under tyrannies understood how precious their newfound freedoms were, and were among the first to leap to freedom's defense. During the Civil War, men barely off the boat from Europe understood the importance of preserving Union and not letting half the country become a slave-owning landed aristocracy, and joined the Union Army to fight against the South.

But the Muslims who are coming now seem to want to re-create the very conditions they left behind.

We REALLY need to get control of immigration, and make sure the only Muslims who get in here are non-practicing ones (apostates), or ones who can demonstrate that they follow some kind of reformed version of the faith that is truly tolerant and repudiates jihad.

161 alegrias  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 10:37:05am

#160 tigger

Good luck demanding apostasy as a condition of US citizenship. It hasn't worked too well in France.

Our Bush Doctrine is better, inject the virus of freedom in the heart of ol' Islam and thereby modify it at the root, denature it in utero as it were. As a side benefit, maybe fewer muslims will feel the need to leave their home countries and colonize the West.

162 zuckerlilly  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 10:39:43am

Hi lizzardoids,

so I got no answer of my post above, I used Charles´ archives for the day of Sept. 1st 2004 and found out, that the "peaceful demonstrations" were the one of the third day of the GOP convention in NY.

"Peaceful" hehehe...

Peaceful demonstrations

I got the text in my post above from a retired ethic prof. from the university of California. I have a lot of sympathy and respect for him, but I think he is pretty naive. To open his eyes will hurt him and me, because he is one the lefties without bad thinking.

Anyway, I sent him the links about the "peaceful demonstration".

163 On the Mark  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 10:57:11am

Hard to believe that Muslims and Christians are standing side by side. Where the heck are the Wahabbists who should be preventing this sort of blashphemy. (sarcasm off)


World Debate

164 Outsider  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 11:10:42am

"Thousands"?

Bah. Tens of Thousands at least.

165 mardukhai  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 12:22:36pm

Oh yes, and there was a discussion of the term "moonbat."

Ain't it grand?

166 wiseoldfool  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 12:25:18pm

Isn't it ironic how, by blowing up the former Lebanese PM in an effort to stamp out democratic reform in Lebanon, the Syrian government may have put its own demise on the fast track?

167 Proud Kaffir  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 1:46:05pm

#160 tigger2005

Many of the Muslims and Arabs who came to the US and the West before the 1990's were probably the strongest advocates of freedom and democracy, having fled from tyrannical, despotic regimes themselves. Unfortunately during the 1990's and early 21st century, we haver seen the rise of Islamofascist ideology spread in large part by the internet. Sadly, many of the children of the earlier generation are increasingly turning to this deathcult, rascist ideology.

Much as Nazism, we need to stomp out this sick ideology at it's core.

168 jas  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 1:55:44pm

#146 Powderfinger

the axis of poopy pants.

Classic! Another for the rotating titles!

169 [Engineer]  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 3:18:01pm

In a Fox News story on Lebanon, there was something very interesting.

European Union foreign ministers on Monday demanded an international investigation into the assassination, joining France, the United States, the Lebanese opposition and the Hariri family. The Lebanese government has said it will cooperate with a team to be sent by the United Nations but will not allow an international inquiry.

Sounds to me that they know the UN will cover up Syria's role.

170 rtheyserius  Mon, Feb 21, 2005 4:37:15pm
Thanks to George W. Bush, the Middle East’s days of tyranny are numbered. This is a process that will be impossible to stop.

I hope you're right, Charles. But I say it's way too early to use the word 'impossible'.

171 EE  Wed, Feb 23, 2005 5:10:46pm

relevant to this thread, a call from an American of the Muslim faith to set things right in Lebanon and Syria by having an international effort to get the Ba'athists out of power in Syria and the Syrians out of Lebanon
[Link: www.muslimworldtoday.com...]


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Compare Electricity Prices in your area. Texas Electricity is deregulated; you have the right to choose Texas Electric Rates from among many Texas Electric Companies.

The lair of the mendaciously aging adolescent libelblogger.

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 Frank says:

The whole Universe is a large joke. Everything in the Universe is just subdivisions of this joke. So why take anything too seriously?