LGF

-RetweetLooking Terror in the Eye

Thu, Feb 24, 2005 at 9:12:14 am PST

Here’s a chilling account from the ticket agent who checked in Mohamed Atta and Abdul Aziz al Omari at the airport in Portland, Maine: He looked terror in the eye - and blinked. (Hat tip: Richard D.)

On the morning of September 11, 2001, knee-jerk political correctness had lethal consequences.

MICHAEL Tuohey “stared the devil in the eyes and didn’t recognize him.”

Now he kicks himself for not having acted, although if he had, our government probably would’ve punished him for trying to take the devil down.

Until recently, Tuohey worked the ticket counter at the airport in Portland, Maine, first for Allegheny Airlines, and then its successor, US Airways. He’ll never forget one particular day of his 34 years of employment.

It began like any other. This married Army vet had a routine. He’d wake up at 3:30 a.m. and walk to the kitchen to grab a cup of coffee from the machine he’d pre-set the night before. Then he’d flicked on the TV, watch some CNN and check the weather forecast. After feeding his cat, he’d jump in his car for the 15-minute drive to work.

On most days, the big rush would come 6-7:30 a.m. That’s when the tiny Maine airport would be abuzz with travelers heading for connecting flights in Philadelphia, Boston and Pittsburgh. But it’s what happened at 5:43 a.m. on a particular day that he replays in his mind over and over.

At that time on a Tuesday, two men wearing sport coats and ties approached his counter with just 17 minutes to spare before their flight to Boston. (Tuohey now knows they’d stayed the night before at the Comfort Inn down the road.) And he suspects they arrived late to take advantage of an airline system that was then “more concerned about on-time departure than effective screening.”

He thought the pair were unusual. First, they each held a $2,500 first-class, one-way ticket to Los Angeles (via Boston). “You don’t see many of those.”

The second reason is not so easy to explain.

“It was just the look on the one man’s face, his eyes,” Tuohey recently told me.

“By now, everyone in America has seen a picture of this man, but there is more life in that photograph we’ve all seen than he had in the flesh and blood. He looked like a walking corpse. He looked so angry. And he wouldn’t look directly at me.”

The man was Mohamed Atta. The other fellow (“he was young and had a goofy smile, I can’t believe he knew he was going to die that day”) was Abdul Aziz al Omari. Michael Tuohey is the individual who checked them in at the Portland airport as they began their murderous journey.

“I looked up, and asked them the standard questions. The one guy was looking at me. It sent a chill through me. Something in my stomach churned. And subconsciously, I said to myself, ‘If they don’t look like Arab terrorists, nothing does.’ ”

“Then I gave myself a mental slap. In over 34 years, I had checked in thousands of Arab travelers, and I never thought this before. I said to myself, ‘That’s not nice to think. They are just two Arab businessmen.’ ” And with that, Tuohey handed them their boarding passes.

As they walked through the metal detectors, out of his sight, the jackets and ties were gone. Now the two were wearing open-neck dress shirts when they went through security.

Atta and Omari arrived in Boston at 6:45 a.m., where they were joined by Satam al Suqami, Wail al Shehri and Waleed al Shehri. The five then checked in, and boarded American Airlines Flight 11 for L.A. The flight was scheduled to depart at 7:45 a.m. It actually left at 7:59. At 8:46, it hit the North Tower.

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246 comments

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1 Powderfinger  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:13:50am
Now he kicks himself for not having acted, although if he had, our government probably would’ve punished him for trying to take the devil down.

Sad but true...

2 BabbaZee  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:15:30am

evil arrived in his natural guise.
I could see
it was he
by the cast of his eyes.

he motioned to me in his usual way,
unnoticed
by me
in my yesterdays.

3 farng!  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:16:01am

But we're still frisking 75 year-old grannies from Minnesota...

When are we gonna get serious?

4 billhedrick  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:18:40am

I hope this guy has had good counselling. There was no way he could see the future or read Atta's mind. It wasn't his fault.

5 Joel  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:20:41am

Just looking at Atta would give any normal person the creeps. Why are Egyptians so ugly?

6 BabbaZee  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:21:22am

#5 Joel

It's the hate

7 pookleblinky  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:21:34am
‘If they don’t look like Arab terrorists, nothing does.’

Horrifying. This guy's moment of cowardice led to the deaths of thousands. It set in motion a chain of events which could eventually kill millions as the conflict between freedom and islamofascism becomes clearer and more focused.

One man can hold the entire human race in his hands.

8 Joel  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:22:17am

BabbaZee

Good point. Muslims suck in the hatred with their mothers milk. They are perpetually scowling.

9 J.D.  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:22:45am

cowardice?

10 American Infidel[deleted]  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:23:06am
11 BabbaZee  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:23:09am

7 pookleblinky
One man can hold the entire human race in his hands.

Yes.
Which is the entire point of the Torah, later and of JC's teachings

12 Globular Cluster  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:23:11am

Hard to detain people when all they are carrying are box-cutters. They may look nasty but who would have thought they could take over planes with such primitive tools?

What's nice about El-Al security is that they ask you a ton of questions designed to prove who you are. Being a young single male, I once spent hours answering every good question you can imagine. I remember once hearing a story about a young man who wanted to board a flight to Israel from Italy. He claimed to be an architecture student. Security asked him to describe a famous architect, which the "student" couldn't do. He was not allowed to fly.

13 T_IT_UP  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:23:39am

We've all had those incidents when we didn't trust the red flags our gut-feelings were sending to our brains.

Live & learn...I guess...

We've all learned so much from this particular instance when political correctness trumped common sense...and resulted in utter disaster.

14 Drudoggy  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:23:41am
If they don’t look like Arab terrorists, nothing does.

This is very assuring.

15 traveler  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:23:44am

Yes, the enemy is among us. I just wonder how many sleepers will be awakened -- and when.

16 Cognosus  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:24:11am

#7

I would rather blame the people who trained him (and still train others like him) to be "sensitive" and "tolerant."

17 Maine's Michael  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:24:13am

Funny. My father, who was in the IDF for the '56 war in the Sinai, and recently deceased, had said about Atta, that 'he looked the archetypal arab killer'.

18 hrun0815  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:24:32am

A few months back I walked by a corner store selling powerball lottery tickets. All of a sudden, I had this odd feeling: "Go, by a ticket. This time you are going to win." Of course, I told myself, the chance of winning are one in a gazillion, so, rational person that I am, I just walked on and saved the buck. But, just for the fun of it, I thought up the numbers I would have played.

And, wouldn't you know it, the numbers I thought of playing were the EXACT winning numbers. I could have won over 100 million dollars. Boy, am I still kicking myself over that one. But, this will teach me, next time I have a funny feeling about a lottery ticket, I will play and win.

Now, before you all claim that my story is bogus, proof do you have that it is not true?

19 Mr Pol  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:24:57am

#7 pookleblinky

This guy's moment of cowardice led to the deaths of thousands.

This is unfair. AFAIK there were no rules against cutters in airplanes at that date. Had Mr Tuohey said or done anything, he would have been fired, but the WTC would still have been attacked.

20 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:25:03am

#3 farng!

After ten or so more 9/11s?

21 BabbaZee  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:25:05am

#17 Maine's Michael

G-d bless your Dad

22 traveler  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:25:50am

#18 hrun...

Now, before you all claim that my story is bogus, proof do you have that it is not true?

Did 3,000 people die? Sorry, but I just can't work up a give-a-shit for that one.

23 Earl  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:26:10am

Don't forget that the next "archetypical islamist killer" looked like Richard Reid- a British, dorky-looking guy who came all-too-close to bringing down a civilian airliner with a shoe bomb.

24 Joel  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:26:33am

10 AmericanINfidel.

Correctamundo! The intense visceral hatred that these lowlifes have for non Muslims twists their countenance into something that is Satanic.

25 pookleblinky  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:27:17am

#18

The burden of proof would be on you. Unless you sent yourself a SASE with the numbers in it postmarked prior to the drawing, no one will believe you.

26 Maine's Michael  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:27:19am

#21 BabbaZee

Thanks.

27 Former CNN Watcher  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:27:29am

OT but diplomat from United Arab Emirates was arrested in Virginia (and subsequently released by reason of diplomatic immunity) for trying to get it on with a 13 year olf girl he met on the Internet.

If the immunity is lifted, he faces four felony counts.

[Link: www.roanoke.com...]

28 BabbaZee  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:28:07am

#23 Earl
They are recruiting white kids in droves in London. Not just kids - the woman I helped extricate from a so-called Sufi mystic was 35 at the time.
Last year MI5 made a bunch of arrests and some of the intel they gathered from computers was related to recruiting middle aged white women, specifically.
This is happening, I speak from personal experiences.

29 MohawkDaddy  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:28:19am

It's not cowardice! The poor guy has had 34 years of PC indoctrination. How dare he think such thoughts. Even if Atta recited a haiku about hijacking the plane, this dude would have lost his job if he stopped him.

30 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:28:25am

#19 Mr. Pol

You're right. Instead of 9/11, we'd be talking about 10/15, or 6/3, or some other date, and Mr. Tuohey would be working at Wal-Mart.

31 EE  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:28:27am

It is not this individual's fault. He was responding as he was required to do.

It is the system that needs some fine tuning, not any particular individual that does as he is required to do in the system. The problem in the system is the devotion to political correctness, which has a price that will be paid in blood.

If all other things were equal, then political correctness would be commendable.

But all other things are not equal. There is a jihaditerrorist movement, fed by an ideology of rabid jihad-inspired hate that wraps itself in the banner of Islam, that poses a very real threat. So we need to ask ourselves: How many lives, how many hundreds of lives, how many thousands of lives, how many tens of thousands of lives, how many hundreds of thousands of lives, how many millions of lives, how many tens of millions of lives are we prepared to risk and to sacrifice on the altar of political correctness?

32 Maine's Michael  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:28:57am
23 Earl

Reid was an idiot patsy.

Atta was the brains and glue of the 911 operation.

33 TimK  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:29:06am

#7 Pookleblinky

Are you nuts?
This poor guy does not read minds or tell the future for $20.00 in the circus.
He checks people in. You should not lay any more blame on this guy than he already seems ready to assume.
He had a hint that these guys were bad. That is not enough to prevent these guys from getting on a plane even today.

34 Dizzy  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:29:16am

NYFD heroes are heroes again by saving a mans life at the airport in Toronto.

Two New York City firefighters — one a hero of the 9/11 terrorist attack —are being credited with saving the life of a Toronto man having a heart attack in Pearson airport. "Anyone would have done the same thing," Firefighter Chris Viola said yesterday from an Etobicoke ice rink where he and retired firefighter Christopher LaRocca were taking part in an international hockey tournament for firefighters


True to the Toronto Star policy of "nothing good comes from the U.S., there must be some sneering cynisism:

Steve Shaw, spokesperson for Toronto Airport Authority said: "We are always appreciative of help." However, when the out-of-town firefighters swung into action, emergency services from the airport were responding, Shaw said.


There can't be any unqualified praise. This just burns me.

35 farng!  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:29:22am

#20 Ward Cleaver

I can't believe this PC nonsense could live beyond a second attack.

Of course, I didn't think it would live beyond the first...

36 Sol Roth  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:30:23am
I said to myself, ‘That’s not nice to think. They are just two Arab businessmen.’ ” And with that, Tuohey handed them their boarding passes.

Bet he won't do that again. Funny how rational self-interest can cure one of the Political Correctness Virus.

37 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:30:29am

If the guy had said "Frank Lloyd Wright" would the El Al people have let him through?


Or is that the standard answer that non-architectural students like me would answer.


Of course, I could try "Charles Whitman", the most famous architectural grad student ever to attend UT-Austin.

38 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:30:38am

#35 farng!

Maybe not ten, but I'm afraid more than two.

39 Mr Pol  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:31:26am

#30 Ward Cleaver

You're right. Instead of 9/11, we'd be talking about 10/15, or 6/3, or some other date, and Mr. Tuohey would be working at Wal-Mart.

It would still have been 9/11 - but the airline would have apologized to Mohammed Atta and Abdul Aziz al Omari before letting them proceed.

40 traveler  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:31:35am

#34 Dizzy


There can't be any unqualified praise. This just burns me.

Really -- they really worked hard to work in that paragraph about their homeboys, didn't they? It didn't even look like it needed to be there. Good writing is secondary to blunting praise for the U.S.

41 gymnast  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:31:58am

I would imagine that Ward Churchill flys rather than drives when he is spreading his message of hate. Suppose for a moment that he is more than just the bullshitter that he seems.

42 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:32:07am

I don't seriously think our pre-9/11 mentality would have allowed us to actually do anything to prevent what happened. Had the guy gone with his gut instinct and slammed the panic button, he'd have been out on his ass in a New York minute. Atta and his buddies would've received numerous apologies and probably have been the media darlings as proof of how Arabs are being discriminated against here in the US.

After that, they'd have probably just gone back into hiding for awhile, allowing their names to disappear again into anonymity, and then tried again. Only this time, their tactics would've been less obvious, airport employees would be too scared of a repeat embarrassment, and the chances of their succeeding in all of their objectives (including hitting the intended target of Flight 93) would have increased.

43 sharona  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:32:31am

As much as this poor guy may have wanted to stop Atta and his barely-out-of-his-teens lover, he wouldn't have been able to. No matter how much the security personnel at the terminal might have wanted to stop him, they couldn't have. No matter how much Atta might have creeped out the flight attendant on the Portland to Boston regional flight, he or she couldn't have done a thing to prevent his boarding.

Michael Tuohey can do no more now than he did then. For all the talk of TSA, Homeland Security, and what measures have been taken to make us safer in flight, it is the continued fear of being labled a racist and the hesitency to profile, the institutionalized reverse-racisim practiced by The Left (and undergirded by the threat of lawsuits) means that people like Mohammed Atta will continue to be able to board our aircraft with nary a peep from security.

Your grandmother will continue to be taken aside for further screening, your pilots will be subject to being detained, and you will have your knickers tossed out of a your carry-on hundreds of times before the Arab male standing next to you in the boarding line is asked a single question. If by some chance he is stopped, he need only to utter a word or two in protest before he is waved through.

Let's face it: the only person who is going to save your a$$ is you, the other passengers, and the U.S. Marshall, if you're lucky enough to have one on your flight. One pissed-off Arab's civil rights take precedence over the safety of thousands, and we have The Angry Left to thank for it. Move along folks: nothing's changed.

44 the_accidental_admin  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:32:54am

#37 Ed,

wasn't there a rumor of a tumor?

45 American Infidel[deleted]  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:33:02am
46 pookleblinky  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:33:32am

#19 Mr. Pol

Yes. Knives up to 2 inches IIRC were allowed. However, Tuohey could have prevented 2 of the hijackers from entering that plane with those legal weapons.

What might have happened if there were 2 less hijackers on that plane? What might have happened if Atta were questioned, instead of allowed onto that plane?

I don't know how events would have turned out differently. But I do know that there were two more killers on that plane than there might have been. Four bloodthirsty hands less could have made a big difference.

47 Earl  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:33:50am

Maine's Michael

The point I am making is that an "arab-looking, young male" will not be the actor in the next islamist terror outrage. It will be a John Walker Lyndh- the disaffected, impressionable, loser convert to islam, or a leftist, America-hating fellow traveller of Churchill.

48 justdanny  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:33:54am
49 Mr Pol  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:34:33am

#43 sharona

Let's face it: the only person who is going to save your a$$ is you, the other passengers, and the U.S. Marshall, if you're lucky enough to have one on your flight. One pissed-off Arab's civil rights take precedence over the safety of thousands, and we have The Angry Left to thank for it. Move along folks: nothing's changed.

My advice: fly El-Al.

50 madawaskan  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:34:55am

There are some other unfair comments here.

All Muslims...All Eygptians...you sure you're not trolls trying to make LGF look as hateful as the terrorists?

Hate begets hate...it's an evil web and it's hard to resist sometimes the news is so negative it is a hard thing to avoid. How many democrats have denounced the hate spewing Ward Churchill? Can't even make a comment like they wouldn't want their children taught by him. Scary-whose vote are they afraid to lose? Thought challenged hate mongers?

51 Sheet o' Glass  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:35:11am

I'd like to see Ward Churchill's name on the "no fly list".

52 Cornholio  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:35:22am
Something in my stomach churned. And subconsciously, I said to myself, ‘If they don’t look like Arab terrorists, nothing does.

Reminds me of The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker, with its account of how people get a "gut feeling" something is wrong when confronted with danger - even if in the heat of the moment they can't put their finger on the warning signs. A man like Tuohey with 34 years' experience will catch these things. But our politically correct system still won't let the good guys do our job.

Better hope that for the next attack Al Queda manages to recruit a bunch of grandmothers and toddlers - those are the only people airline security is allowed to stop.

53 Beagle  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:36:03am

If this guy had read The Arab Mind by Patei he would have understood the overly happy, homicidal maniac Arab profile I mean cultural ethos. The Arab Mind is distinguished by wild swings from one extreme to the other. They don't value "moderation in all things" as Ben Franklin put it.

54 Globular Cluster  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:36:11am
If the guy had said "Frank Lloyd Wright" would the El Al people have let him through?

I believe security asked him to describe the architect, not name one. Of course, this just a story I've heard. You may wish to ask El-Al, as I am not their spokesman. :-)

55 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:36:34am

#39 Mr Pol

Sadly, you're probably right. Maybe this won't be the case the next time it happens, but PC still has a pretty tight grip on the country.

56 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:37:09am
57 traveler  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:38:53am

#50

All Muslims...All Eygptians...you sure you're not trolls trying to make LGF look as hateful as the terrorists?

No, just calling the "faith" of all Muslims what it is: a hate-filled death cult. Not the "peaceful religion" they try to claim.

58 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:39:36am

#50 madawaskan

I wouldn't lump all Egyptians or Muslims together. But then, technically, Muslims who aren't pursuing jihad are apostates.

59 Sheet o' Glass  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:40:15am

Jihad obviously hasn't made its way to Alaska yet.

60 gymnast  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:40:39am

#55, Ward Cleaver. I believe it would be more accurate to say that PC has a death grip on this country.

61 Sheet o' Glass  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:41:20am

Ringo, Atta looks like he has eaten one too many benzodiazipines.

62 Mr Pol  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:41:22am

#46 pookleblinky

Yes. Knives up to 2 inches IIRC were allowed. However, Tuohey could have prevented 2 of the hijackers from entering that plane with those legal weapons.

Nope. They would still have been allowed to board, carrying those perfectly legal tools, and would have gotten an apology from the airline, too.

What might have happened if there were 2 less hijackers on that plane?

The exact same thing - pre-9/11, when everybody knew that in case of hijacking the only thing to do was to stay seated, STFU and do whatever the hijackers wanted, two terrorists could have carried out the attack in the same way. Taking Atta and Omari out would still have left three terrorists on the plane.

What might have happened if Atta were questioned, instead of allowed onto that plane?

False dichotomy. He would have been questioned, then allowed onto the plane.

I don't know how events would have turned out differently. But I do know that there were two more killers on that plane than there might have been. Four bloodthirsty hands less could have made a big difference.

Short of Mr Tuohey incapacitating Atta and Omari, they would still have boarded, still carrying those cutters. The only differences would have been Mr Tuohey being out of a job, and the airline apologizing to Atta and Omari.

63 Globular Cluster  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:42:50am
My advice: fly El-Al.

Not that El-Al is perfect. They have let quite a few ISM moonbats onto the plane, so clearly not everything is ideal.

64 Mr Pol  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:42:52am

#55 Ward Cleaver

Sadly, you're probably right. Maybe this won't be the case the next time it happens, but PC still has a pretty tight grip on the country.

See #43. Welcome to the real world. Oh, and fly El-Al.

65 KWH  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:43:37am
Then he’d flicked on the TV, watch some CNN and check the weather forecast.

Maybe this mindDUMBING news channel effected his thought process.

66 Poitiers-Lepanto  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:44:21am
He looked like a walking corpse. He looked so angry.

This sounds like the words from a Sacred Book...

It reminds me of so many images from the Holocaust...

The Beast.

67 Catttt  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:44:23am

We all have those moments of strong intuition, I think. Women can call it women's intuition. We almost never think about them as being true insight until much later.

What a thing! Must give him chills when he recalls it.

68 pookleblinky  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:44:27am

#62 Mr. Pol

You're right.

69 gymnast  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:44:35am

#59, Sheet 'o Glass. Google - Mosques in Alaska - and enlighten yourself. Bet you didn't know you were on the "Northern Frontier" of the ROP.

70 redstateredneck  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:44:42am
71 madawaskan  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:44:43am

Ok I"ve known Iranians that have come stateside. Egyptian endocronoligist at Pensacola one of the few to accept Champus-and an Egyptian neurologist that worked at Keesler AFB Biloxi-they were all practicing Muslims and they did not seem to me to be part of a hateful death cult.

72 T_IT_UP  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:44:56am

#12 Global Cluster:

I had a similar occurrence boarding El Al from NYC to Ben Gurion Airport.

I'm a dark, swarthy-lookin' kinda' guy; and they pulled me aside and and questioned me thoroughly for over two and 1/2 hours. I'm not an arab or muslim; but they never asked me about my nationality or religious beliefs.

They found an interrogator who was familiar with my line of work, and he asked me questions that a pretender couldn't fake an answer to.

When they cleared me, they showed me a picture that resembled me slightly. The interrogator, with whom I'd developed almost a Stockholm-syndrome type of friendship with told me, "This is a very bad guy; we had to make sure it wasn't you. You look like him, but you're not him."

He was apologetic; but I thanked him for doing his job so well.
I feel pretty safe flying El Al anytime as a result of my experience.

I didn't get all pissy about the delay or the interrogation. The only ones who get all pissy are those who have something to hide, or those who are pre-programmed pali-sympathizer robots.

73 BabbaZee  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:45:02am

#61 Sheet o' Glass

They hop them up - the same way the Nazis and the Japanese used meth (german marching powder) they use cocaine and heroin.
The terrorist bodies they collected from the Beslan school tragedy were confirmed heroin addicts according to some of the Russian papers at the time.
It is well known that many of the suicide bombers in Israel have tested positive for coke or smack in the blood (my cousin is an Israeli police officer)
They use the drugs to help indoctrinate them.

74 Mr Pol  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:45:02am

#63 Globular Cluster

Not that El-Al is perfect. They have let quite a few ISM moonbats onto the plane, so clearly not everything is ideal.

El-Al security procedures are geared toward finding out terrorists about to attack the plane they're boarding, not ordinary flying moonbats. Not yet, anyway.

75 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:45:26am

Charles Whitman's note left where he killed his wife asked for an autopsy, and he did indeed have a brain tumor, although from what I've read, it isn't known whether that contributed to his spree. His USMC training did allow him to kill people over a mile from the Tower.

If Atta had missed the flight, would the United Flight still have been hijacked? The Pentagon flight? No way to know if the other hijackers would have called off the mission.


Were Atta and his boyfriend smuggling the mace and boxcutters, or were the muscle guys doing it. If it was the muscle, after searching the bags they'd have sent them on their way anyway, and they might have even made the flight.

76 BabbaZee  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:45:51am

#66 Poitiers-Lepanto

The beast indeed.

77 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:46:05am

#60 gymnast, #43 sharona

You are correct.

78 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:46:24am

OT

MP who founded anti-war group quits, switches sides.

The money quote:

"None of us who opposed the war likes how we got here but we must face the facts if we are to provide solidarity to Iraqi democrats in their hour of utmost need. My plain message to those on the left who abuse statistics and rubbish Iraqi democracy because they cannot stand the idea that Tony Blair or George Bush get some sort of credibility from them is to get real and do so quickly."
79 traveler  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:46:25am

#71

Muslims and they did not seem to me to be part of a hateful death cult.

They ARE.

80 Bob with one O  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:46:32am

The guy will live with his version of hell for a long time.

As a confession prior to 9-11 I used to see what I could get on board with in the way of knives. More than once I wore my leatherman on my belt. Security was close to nonexistent.

81 BabbaZee  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:48:04am

#70 redstateredneck

I do. At the time, when they claimed they were a wedding band - I had said if I were the interrogating officer I would have made them take out their instruments and play Hava Nagila and a Tarantella.
If they could't do it, well then.

82 Sheet o' Glass  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:48:19am

Gymnast, thanx for the info. I was making reference to the "madawaskan's" post. I had no idea the jihadists had their eyes on the northern frontier. I live in philly, were islam has all but taken over. Even our Police Commish is a nazi, errr... Muslim.

83 BabbaZee  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:48:43am

#72 T_IT_UP

mornin' dark & swarthy

84 Cornholio  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:50:50am

#8 Joel

Atta may well have been scowling. But the most evil people I've met have smiled. Been quite charming, actually.

You can't count on the devil to appear in red with pointy horns and cloven hoofs.

85 traveler  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:50:52am

#71 madawaskan

p.s.: We all know, work with, and live near peaceful Muslims. Doesn't change the fact that the faith they're a part of is a murderous death cult with standing orders to this day to conquer the world by murderous force, and that Christians and Jews are "apes and pigs worthy of a place in the marketplace"...

That's in the Koran that the peaceful Muslim has on his shelf.

86 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:50:54am

Sheet o' Glass,

Thanks for the new vocabulary word.

I'll try to use it 3 times before the day is over.

87 Mr Pol  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:51:00am

#72 T_IT_UP

I didn't get all pissy about the delay or the interrogation. The only ones who get all pissy are those who have something to hide, or those who are pre-programmed pali-sympathizer robots.

Not really... 7 times in 7 weeks, before boarding the exact same flight, the same lovely woman interviewed me, each time asking the exact same questions and just smiling and shaking her head when I asked her for her phone number... The eigth time, when she still failed to recognize me, I was pissed.

88 harley  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:51:22am

Political Correctness is not something I'm in favor of, Ever. It has no place in a free society. In our present circumstances it is going to be the death of many more. Maybe then they'll get a clue (eternal optimist)

89 FabioC.  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:51:29am

Another fact stems from this story: what was possible to do to prevent the 9/11? Maybe arresting 19 people because they were arabs taking flight lessons? Bush would have been impeached probably, and the jihadis would have been compensated with big bucks, only delaying the attacks.

90 Sheet o' Glass  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:51:35am

Guess i shoulda figured, Islam is eyeing the whole globe. How ignorant of me.

91 Globular Cluster  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:52:38am
El-Al security procedures are geared toward finding out terrorists about to attack the plane they're boarding, not ordinary flying moonbats. Not yet, anyway.

Fair enough.

92 Smit  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:52:46am

Ahh Nutz - Cheers Spain.

Terrorism warning from Met chief

The Metropolitan Police commissioner Sir Ian Blair has warned Londoners to be on their guard for possible terrorist attacks in the near future...

He said: "Terrorists have long memories. They understand what happened in Madrid and know what the impact of that was on the Spanish electorate.

"This year we are responsible for the EU presidency, presidency of the G8, a royal wedding and a general election. There are obvious and enormous targets which we have to deal with."

I think I'll be out of the country in the two weeks before the election.

93 Sheet o' Glass  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:54:00am

Ringo, its the same look alotta young, dead end guys in philly have on their faces. Lacking inhibition, and angry... eatin clonazapam and alprazalam. Standing on the corner, soon to be converted to islam.

94 alegrias  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:54:19am

Had our uber politically correct German allies been paying attention to Atta & and his Hamburg cell of shiftless valedictorian engineering students they might have noticed whether these islamofascists ever got jobs & become productive citizens instead of jetting around to Egypt, Spain, Czech Republic, Indonesia, USA, etc. for their cosa-islamo-nostra.

95 Sheet o' Glass  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:55:07am

pimf... alprazolam

96 hobgoblin  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:55:07am

pookleblinky

I see you agree with Mr Pol about the ineffectualness of anything Touey would have done.

And I hate to pile on, but how about a retraction/apology for this "This guy's moment of cowardice led to the deaths of thousands"

I'm in the other Portland, so he's not me. But I do think that was pretty far out of line.

97 guzziguy  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:55:28am

#29, MohawkDaddy,

He still would be fired.

The following is pretty old now, but perhaps worth revisiting...

To ensure we Americans never offend anyone - - - particularly fanatics intent of killing us - airport screeners will not be allowed to profile people.  They will continue random searches of 80 year old women, little kids, airline pilots with proper identification, Secret Service agents who are members of the President's security detail, 85 year old Congressmen with metal hips and Medal Of Honor winning former Governors.

Lets pause a moment and take the following test:

In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by:

(a)   Olga Corbett
(b)   Sitting Bull
(c)   Arnold Schwartzenegger
(d)   Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 & 40

In 1979 the U.S. Embassy in Iran was taken over by:

(a)   Lost Norwegians
(b)   Elvis Presley
(c)   A tour bus full of 80 year old women
(d)  Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 & 40

During the 1980s, a number of Americans were kidnapped in
Lebanon by:

(a)   John Dillinger
(b)   The King of Sweden
(c)    The Boy Scouts
(d)   Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 & 40

In 1983 the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:

(a)   A pizza delivery boy
(b)   Pee Wee Herman
(c)    Geraldo Rivera making up for a slow news day
(d)   Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 & 40

In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard by:

(a)  The Smurfs
(b)  Davy Jones
(c)  The Little Mermaid
(d)  Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 & 40

In 1985 TWA Flight 847 was hijacked at Athens and a U.S. Navy diver was murdered by:

(a)  Captain Kid
(b)  Charles Lindberg
(c)   Mother Teresa
(d)  Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 & 40

In 1988 Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:

(a)   Scooby Doo
(b)  The Tooth Fairy
(c)   Butch Cassidy & The Sundance Kid who had a few sticks of dynamite left.
(d)  Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 & 40

In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed for the first time by:

(a)   Richard Simmons
(b)   Grandma Moses
(c)   Michael Jordan
(d)   Muslim male extremist mostly between the ages of 17 & 40

In 1998 the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:

(a)   Mr. Rogers
(b)   Hillary, to distract attention from Wild Bill's women problems
(c)   The World Wrestling Federation fo promote it's next villian: "Mustapha the Merciless"
(d)   Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 & 40

On 09/11/01, four airplanes were hijacked, destroyed and
thousands of people were killed by:

(a)   Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck and Elmer Fudd
(b)   The Supreme Court of Florida
(c)   Mr. Bean
(d)   Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 & 40

In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against:

(a)   Enron
(b)   The Lutheran Church
(c)   The NFL
(d)   Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 & 40

In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:

(a)   Bonny & Clyde
(b)   Captain Kangaroo
(c)   Billy Graham
(d)   Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 & 40

Hmmm   .   .   .   nope, no patterns anywhere to justify profiling.

98 BabbaZee  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:55:34am

#84 Cornholio

All There is to Know About Adolph Eichmann:

Eyes - Medium
Hair - Medium
Wright - Medium
Height - Medium
Distinguishing Features -None
Number of fingers - 10
Number of toes - 10
Intelligence - Medium

What did you expect?
Talons?
Oversized Incisors?
Green Saliva?

Madness?

~ Leonard Cohen

99 Poitiers-Lepanto  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:56:16am

#89 Fabio C.

Bush would have been impeached probably, and the jihadis would have been compensated with big bucks

Sure thing.

But even after 9/11:

M. Moore: "there is no terrorist threat"

Rangel: "there is no islamic terrorism"

Kerry: "we must reduce terrorism to a nuisance"

And these guys are HELPING to prepare the next attacks BY disarming the Nation.

100 Catttt  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 7:57:34am

BBC article with a picture of the young blonde lady who saved a plane full of people.

Christina Jones, brave stewardess, grabbed Richard Reid as he was trying to light a bomb in his shoe. She wrestled with the man and yelled, and passengers helped restrain him.

This happened in late 2001, after they knew to be watchful, but before there was time for any special training, but personnel had discussed things with each other and used street smarts and common sense.

I am glad Ms. Jones was there.

101 pookleblinky  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:00:36am

#96 hobgoblin

I will retract what I said. I was wrong. Tuohey could have done nothing legally which would have prevented it.

102 Poitiers-Lepanto  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:01:44am

#97 Guzziguy

Standard liberal answer:
YOU are a rabid racist, a nazi, a fascist.
And LGF allows you to publish these "islamophobic" materials because LGF is an hate site.

The subversives KNOW all those FACTS, AND THEY LIKE TO KNOW THAT THEIR HATE FOR AMERICA AND FREEDOM HAS NOW A NEW CHANCE.

103 madawaskan  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:02:52am

Ward Cleaver-

Thanks for that. I was just looking at some old photos from the first class of officer pilots to graduate from Lackland and Sheppard Air Field. My father faught in the Battle of the Bulge with the 28th I.D. (Mech)-to make along story short after witnessing a whole company almost die in a day-I think there were thirteen survivors-they were sent to sweep a mine field-and after 6,000 dead on one day my father decided to quit the army and join the Air Force. He was the third class of AF guys and the "old man" of the group. He escaped the ghetto and MOB of Turtle Creek PA by lying about his age...anyways he decided to get his can up in the air for the next one...

His class picture has Serbians, Croats, Italians,Mexican,Japanese, Jewish, African Americans were integrating in Basic Training Squadrons and they had an Iranian teacher. Go figure! This is the greatness of America-and the military isn't perfect but we learn a respect for others just by witnessing their courage.

104 Harley  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:03:10am

#101 Pookleblinky
Good for you.
That is an example of why I like LGF, here people will admit when they were a little hasty

105 Poitiers-Lepanto  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:04:10am

#98 BabbaZee

I LOVE Leonard Cohen !
I wonder how the latest CD is...

LC is my preferred music for the "I am sad and I want to get drunk" times...

106 FabioC.  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:04:20am

Well, just speculating, but it is possible that people very nervous or excited will emit some particular substance with sweat, with a smell that some people can pick up - even inconsciously - and recognize as a sign of danger.

Armed pilots could do quite a lot against hijackers, but the LLL objection is "It would be dangerous".
Ferchrissake, they are already piloting a plane that can become a huge missile! A gun does not make a big difference. Granted, accidents and mishandling must be carefully considerated, but I think the pros outweigh the cons.

107 Jason Pappas  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:04:24am

It’s amazing that we still haven’t secured our borders, still allow travel from Islamic countries, and still have diplomatic relations with Saudi Arabia. Perhaps it is PC, as many of you have pointed out, but I think it is more. Both parties lack anyone of substance who will stand up, take a moral stand, and insist we do what is right. It's over 3 years since 9/11 and little has changed.

No public figure has the guts to say that Islam is the problem.

108 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:05:11am

#80 Bob:

More than once I wore my leatherman on my belt

Prior to 9/11, I always took my swiss army knife on board. I also saw a guy board a domestic flight from Providence to DC with a CRKT K.I.S.S.. (I have one- great knife - but never tried to carry it.) As others have pointed out, this was perfectly legal. And I would add; that was not the problem. The box cutters were not the problem on 9/11; if we had all been thinking like El Al at that time, the passengers would have stomped the hijackers, or failing that, the pilot would have shot 'em.

And IMHO, they should drop the ban on carrying on "anything with a blade". It's pointless (no pun intended).

109 T_IT_UP  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:05:15am

#18 hrun0815:

Had a similar experience over 25 years ago.

A friend of mine (now deceased) came over to me urging me to play 103 in the daily 3-digit state lottery.

He was broke, down to his last 3 dollars. He told me he had prayed to G_d as fervently as he knew how to help him out financially.

I was on my way into the corner beer store-lottery agent as he was on his way out. He showed me a gorgeous gold Caddy with license plate # PTL 103. My friend exhorted me:

"Don't you get it?! PTL 103 -- PLAY THE LOTTERY -- #103!"

I bought a $1.00 ticket on 103 straight. About 3 minutes later they drew the number and it came out: 103!

I cashed my $500.00 winner, but I had to drive my friend to 3 different stores to cash his $1,500.00 worth. I had a twenty in my pocket when I bought my winning ticket -- I sure wish I would have bet the whole twenty on 103!

I said all this to say: I believe you, buddy!

110 BabbaZee  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:05:25am

#105 Poitiers-Lepanto

Exactly. I call it "wallowing music"
I don't have the new CD yet.

111 Dov  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:06:49am

# 80

Bob with One O

Pre 9-11 the security was not only slack. It actually was left up to the pilto to allow or disallow a weapon on a flight. Many were the times my luggage was loaded with an orange sticker on it bearing " Firearms Enclosed" and on 1 rare occasion I was allowed to carry it in a carry on as long as the Pilot retained it until landing. And No I am not and was not a peace officer.

112 toddhisattva  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:06:54am

What may be worse than PC is an expectation of convenience.

Air passengers are the whiniest bunch of spoiled brats! I find it hard to believe they are descendants of a folk who crossed this continent in Conestogas.

I am by no means a frequent flyer. But when I hear people gripe about the most trivial things, like taking off their shoes, I am tempted to say, "well you could always walk there. It's been done before."

113 Mr Pol  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:07:17am

OT: European Court Condemns Russia for Chechnya Abuses

STRASBOURG, France (Reuters) - The European Court of Human Rights ruled Thursday that Russia committed serious abuses, including the torture and killing of civilians, during its military offensives against separatists in Chechnya.

The Strasbourg-based court was ruling on claims by six Chechens who blamed Moscow for the deaths of relatives during attacks and bombings by the Russian military in 1999 and 2000.

The court ordered Moscow to pay a total of 135,710 euros ($179,900) in damages to the six claimants.

I hope the EU tries to freeze or seize any Russian assets...

114 Catttt  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:08:59am

#105 Poitiers-Lepanto

I remember years ago, I had to special order a Leonard Cohen record (he was not in the top ten on the Western Colorado hit parade), and it took weeks to get. Now, I can download almost anything, and at the outside, I can have it from Amazon in two days.

115 FabioC.  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:09:19am

Partly OT.

Shocka! Surveillance cameras do not stop crime!

Who would have ever thought it?

116 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:10:09am

#113 Mr. Pol:

I hope the EU tries to freeze or seize any Russian assets...

Well, no. But I hear they're preparing a really sternly-worded letter. Stand back!

117 BabbaZee  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:10:09am

#114 Cattt

You can get almost any CD on earth from e-bay if you wait long enough - and really cheap too. I have paid .99 cents for CD's that way...

118 1 US Sheeple  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:10:42am

OT

The Fox News scrole relates that the Marine who shot the terrorist who he thought was playing dead is not out of the woods yet.

No decision has been made as yet.

No wonder we lost about 3,000 on 9/11, we micro manage all of the people entrusted with security so that political correctness will be the standard.

119 Roger  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:10:53am

#97 guzziguy, well I would fail the test because each answer should be none of the above.

P.S. There is no such thing as a Muslim male extremists..

120 southernborn  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:11:11am

Guys, I apoligize for posting something off topic but I have a mystery. I know what is on my computer (what I put there)
and what is not..I have two firewalls. Having said that, I saw something today on my computer that I have never seen before. A grey box same color as this i am typing on came up and was so fast that all I saw was, SCAN COMPLETED Does anyone know what that could be? thank you very much

Southernborn

121 locutus  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:11:20am

#62

Taking Atta and Omari out would still have left three terrorists on the plane.

Wasn't Atta one of the (post-hijack) pilots, as well as being in "command" of the group of five on that plane?

In my opinion, had Atta been grounded that day, we'd still have one WTC tower standing in Manhattan today.

122 skoi  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:11:22am

Sheet o glass-- the Philly police commish is Muslim? You're serious? How did I miss that? I'm ashamed of myself.

I can't wait until the husband is vested in the pension plan so we can move somewhere Southern or Texan.

What it comes down to is what the old timers here keep saying over and over-- we can't depend on the powers that be to protect us. Even if they want to, they feel their hands are tied. We have to know what's going on in our neighborhoods, etc. So when the snow tapers off some I'll take a walk over to the newly opened Arabic market around the corner. Not that it'll do any real good, especially if the kids start freaking out about being in a den of splodeydopes (they're not real big on PC, my kids).

123 madawaskan  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:11:47am

#101 pookleblinky

Man that is cool plus I love when you bring the funny.

I understand your position -I bet the guy at Portland has beat himself over it worse than anyone else...ugh I would pay a million dollars and do a year in prison if God would spare me from having to be in one of history's ultimate "what if spots"...Kind of my idea of hell on earth.

124 FabioC.  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:13:43am

#122 skoi

I would think that splodeys are unlikely to strike in an Arab market in the West. Thay would go for some symbol of the infidel dacadence.

125 pookleblinky  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:13:58am

#106

Schizophrenics reputedly produce trans-3-methyl-2-hexenoic acid in their sweat, a goat-like odor, yet a number of studies indicate that there is no significant correlation.

[Link: www.jlr.org...]

126 Frank IBC  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:13:59am
127 FabioC.  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:15:58am

#126 Frank IBC

Shees! He reminds me of some Egypt-related film... like a mummy coming back to life, or an evil pharaoh.

128 Mr Pol  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:18:31am

#116 Occasional Reader

I hope the EU tries to freeze or seize any Russian assets...

Well, no.

Bummer.

But I hear they're preparing a reallysternly-worded letter. Stand back!

Bringing out the shy guns, huh?

Sugar eaters are getting on my nerves...

129 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:18:50am

#126 Frank IBC:

Two can play at this game...

NO! WIRE! HANGARS!... EVERRR!

130 Smit  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:19:07am

British foreign minister Jack "Marxist dhimmi" Straw speaking at a UK / Saudi conference: Two Kingdoms: Facing the Challenges Ahead,” - {sick sick sick}

The British minister said the two countries would work together to combat terrorism. “We reject utterly the idea that this despicable violence has any justification whatsoever in the Islamic faith — which we know to be one of peace, tolerance and respect.”

Straw ruled out the clash of civilizations. “Our civilizations are not competing and conflicting, but the product of a collective human effort to which people of many faiths and cultures have contributed. In resisting terrorism, we proclaim our shared attachment to civilization and to the basic human values of respect, dialogue and freedom which the terrorists attack,” he said.

Arab news

131 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:19:24am

Ahh, crap, make that "HANGERS".

132 FabioC.  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:20:11am

#125 pookleblinky

No short-chain fatty acid smells good (excpet maybe acetic acid), especially if it has a double bond :D

I know that people with certain pathologies have a carachteristic body odour, but I was referring to a different phenomenon.

133 Renna  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:20:41am

Whether his potential actions that day would or would not have had an effect is a subject about which we can only guess, even if they are educated guesses.

But this is a lesson in listening to your "feelings." And I use the scare quotes to emphasize that they are, more often than not, NOT feelings but thoughful conclusions based on evidence that we cannot name or quite put our finger on at the time.

Ever happen to you? A little voice says something isn't right here, and then another little voice says you're wrong to feel that way, don't judge a book by its cover, don't profile, and so on. I think we'd be wise to often listen to the first voice.

We may not at the time be able to say exactly what it is that puts our hackles to rise, but by the time we can name it, it may be too late.

There may be VERY GOOD REASONS, not just hunches, but we cannot list them ourselves at the moment. So we consign them as hunches and; therefore, to being ignored.

From his own story, had he stopped them this would NOT have been a case of racial profiling. He said he had checked in thousands of Arabs. There was something else that alerted him. With hindsight alone perhaps, he points to the unusual tickets and the eyes. But if this account is true, because he didn't feel he could point to anything other than a bad feeling, he blinked.

I'm not saying to trust your feelings, but sometimes thoughts are too new to recognize that they spring from rational evidence.

134 Photios  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:22:07am

justdanny #48

Thanks for the link. This applies to one of today's earlier threads, Palestinian “collaborator" confesses of his own free will

As everybody and their snitch knows, Israeli security services gather information from many sources including Palestinians who provide information of military and intelligence value about other Palestinians. In reality, these men are heroes, saving the lives of many Israelis as well as other Palestinians. They are perceived as traitors by other Palestinians and have been summarily executed on the streets (list was cut off in 2003 but there have been many more than those listed)

And for this thread I think the following is the gist of it;

Consider that in the aftermath of 9/11, American, United, Continental and Delta airlines were fined millions of dollars by the Department of Transportation for instances where the DOT believed airline employees had factored race, gender, ethnicity, religion or appearance into security-screening decisions.

Worst of all, that remains government policy. Airline employees in this country are still told in their training that they can never take into consideration the race or religion of a passenger when making judgments about suspicious behavior. This, despite that all 19 on 9/11 had those characteristics in common!

+Photi

135 WillyShake  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:22:26am

Michael Smerconish's newspaper column is only the beginning; his book, _Flying Blind_, has an absolutely vital message: even if this employee would have wanted to stop Atta, he would not--even today--be allowed by law to do so! This must-read tells you how political correctness continues to hamstring our efforts to fight the WOT. Great read!

Amazon Link here:

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

136 Dave the.....  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:24:54am
You're right. Instead of 9/11, we'd be talking about 10/15, or 6/3, or some other date, and Mr. Tuohey would be working at Wal-Mart.


Same if Bush would have acted on the vague warnings of a possible attack.

He could have instituted racial profiling for all passengers at all airports. He could have searched the home computers of any suspected of associating with these types. Etc

If the attacks would have been stopped, Bush would be hated now and John Kerry would be President.

137 alegrias  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:25:29am

Speaking of failure of imagination, US officials & "experts" pooh pooh the possibility of Al Qaeda working with Salvadoran or other trafficking gangs to enter the US because of "cultural or language" reasons. See AP story "El Salvador Gang Member: I'm no terrorist" over on Charles' top news section.

Harlan Ullman of CSIS must not know Mo Atta & the boys did swell in pig-eating, Spanish speaking Spain after all, and Al Qaeda wants back its former Spanish colony. To say there's no affinity possible between spanish speaking gangs of Central America and islamofascists means nothing's changed.

138 Renna  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:26:55am

Sorry 'bout the bold tag snafu. Meant it to end after two words.

139 pookleblinky  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:26:59am

#136 Dave the...

Good point. The self-fulfilling Cassandra Complex. If you warn people well enough, they'll call you crazy for having aroused their fears to a "nonexistent" threat.

140 skoi  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:28:02am

#124 Fabio C-- I know they wouldn't strike an Arabic market, however, my kids are little (10 and 6) and are vigilant and loud about it. My 6 year old is forever saying "Look, there's a Muslim" really loud whenever he sees a guy in a prayer cap, or a woman in hajib, though he's recently stopped following up with, "should we call the Army?" The ten year old has insisted we get off the subway because she sees someone "splodey"-like.

While these things are probably okay, it pisses me off that my kids live like this.

141 Baldy  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:28:51am

OT: A Brave Woman Died (NY Times)

She also intervened during beatings, often putting herself in harm's way.
Ms. Derickson became the first woman to receive the Silver Cross for Valor, awarded by the Legion of Valor, a veterans organization.

I remember the incident very well. G-d Rest Her Soul.

142 Catttt  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:29:19am

117 BabbaZee

I hadn't used ebay for years, but I just bought a set of three Hammer films, including the uncut version of Vampire Circus, and its on the way already. :) As far as I know, it was never released in the US widely, and the US version was heavily cut. It would be R by today's standards, but I doubt it would be made today - too non-PC. Can't wait!

It's great for those movies no one sells, like Crimson Komono (I have a crush on James Shigeta) and The Creation of the Humanoids.

143 Dave the.....  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:30:31am

#139

Somewhere out there (linked here several months ago) is an alternative scenerio of the past 4 years.

It's how the media would have reported the downfall of Dubya.

The final line is something to the effect (after Bush's resignation) was "and no attacks ever even occured".

144 Jason Pappas  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:30:32am

#136 Dave, we still can't let Bush off easy. The election is over; we should demand more of him, now. We need to secure our borders and air travel, for example. What good is having a Republican President if he is going to hold back out of fear of Dems picking up votes?

145 madawaskan  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:31:56am

#94 alegrias-

Had our uber politically correct German allies been paying attention to Atta & and his Hamburg cell


This you would think was the FIRST time they got it wrong-BUT NO!---And you would think that their foreign minister could put his "insider" knowledge to good use...Mr. ex-Bader Mein Hoff gang( or however they spell it)...weren't they the first to execute people and film their hostage in an orange jumpsuit...I am thinking of the German banker they offed because we was too pro-MNC.

146 cathymv  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:32:48am

sometimes one should listen to that little voice in your head.. sometimes..your instincts take over and give you the knowledge you need to detect danger.. and then..we shut that voice down..maybe people should start listening to their instincts more often...

see ya
cathy : )

147 Mr Pol  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:33:06am

#144 Jason Pappas

we still can't let Bush off easy. The election is over; we should demand more of him, now.

Too late - the election is over.

148 Poitiers-Lepanto  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:33:22am

#133 Renna

Excellent post.
Thank you.

#114 Cattt

I had the same problems with books: find the publishers, find the catalogues, order them (often overseas) with a zillion problems to pay them and to have them through the Customs.
Now it's paradise !

#120 Southernborn

You probably have spyware in your system.
I use Spyware Doctor, but it's not cheap.

149 thinkingmom  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:35:52am

And Norman Mineta, the democrat completely enthralled with political correctness over safety, is still Secretary of Transportation...

150 pookleblinky  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:37:31am

#120 Southernborn

If you have Windows XP, you can press control-alt-delete to get a window that will show you what processes you're running.

Look through them, and plug their names into google.

Liu Utilities has a good database of spyware processes, and will tell you whether the process is legit, or evil.

151 BabbaZee  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:38:09am

#142 Cattt

Oh the Hammer stuff takes me right back to childhood and Chiller Theater! Love it.

152 Bob with one O  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:42:18am

Occassional Reader #108,

I used to take my KISS with me too. It is an exceptional piece, it's in my pocket as we speak.


Dov,

Our world has changed.


Southernguy,

Do you have Spybot or Ad-Aware? Norton? The first two are free for personal use and can be downloaded from their respective sites.

153 FabioC.  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:43:42am

#140 skoi

Yes, that's bad, to live if not in fear in apprension. It's difficult to tell where a legitimate concern ends and the obsession begins.

154 kynna  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:44:11am

This poor man. I can't imagine living with that.

Remember Atta went looking for a crop duster to attach a chemical tank to and said as much while spouting anti-American, jihadi garbage and the woman he was talking to didn't report it.

He told the bartender at a strip bar that America's streets would run red with blood.

Zacarious Moussaoui was in custody and nobody bothered to look at his PC which had info that might have stopped 9/11. Agents were blocked from fully pursuing the investigation by Jamie Gorelick's (esteemed member of the 9/11 Commission) wall.

I also was reminded of "The Gift of Fear". Just the fact that he'd checked through hundreds of Arabs and never gotten that feeling should have alerted him. Not that he could have done much about it without being fired, but it might have been worth the effort.

Trust your instincts. PC kills.

155 Adrenalyn  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:44:44am

well, this guy could have saved a plane load of people AND won the lottery

he could have had the courage to stand by his convictions and gut instinct

then when the other planes hit the tower (or that one without Mr. Atta)
and after he was fired for un-political correctness
he could have sued the airline and won big

so he could have saved those particular people
and fucked the airline over for firing him, which it certainly would have
all the while teaching the goddam left their miserable failure called political correctness

156 Jeeves  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:45:56am

#133 Renna

Fine post.

Slightly OT: Powerline links to a review of Churchill's (Winston, that is) "River Wars," in'which his the famous passage concerning "Mohammedism" has been restored to its rightful place (quote on page 2):
[Link: weeklystandard.com...]

157 FabioC.  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:46:28am

#155

Colda, shoulda, woulda aren't very useful. We have to stick with what happened and how happened. The best we can do is to learn from past mistakes.

158 alegrias  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:48:02am

#145 Madawaskan

You mean Joschka Fischer the German foreign minister with "street gang" cred? He & his ilk or generation of 1968 as far as I'm concerned have the same mentality as Ward Churchill only they're running EUrope!

They romanticize & relate to phony "resistance" movements out of knee-jerk sympathy because they're stuck in the 1960s and got tired of having to feel "guilt" for their parents' antisemitism, so they've gone and outdone themselves to defend the indefensible.

PS on a happy note, an islamoterrorist bites the dust of his own hand in Zaragoza Spain--hung himself, no 72 raisins.

159 lilida  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:50:22am

Two years ago, while returning to the states from British Columbia on Air Canada, my mother managed to get through two screenings (Vancouver and Seattle) with a 6 inch steak knife in her purse! Of course, she didn't remember it was in there (we had taken a trip to a spa and brought the knife to cut bread and cheese, which we had bought on the way to the spa). She had wrapped the knife in a couple of paper towels and placed it in her purse and there it stayed until we returned to Atlanta, GA. In the meantime, Air Canada screeners in Vancouver gave me hell for having a pair of safety cuticle scissors (the kind with round, blunted ends) and promptly confiscated them. In Seattle, screeners took my tweezers. Imagine my mom's horror when she returned home and found the knife in her purse! And my husband, who is in law enforcement, is ALWAYS taken aside for intensive screening procedures. He never carries his gun on board, but it doesn't matter: as soon as they see his badge he is automatically targeted.

160 Poitiers-Lepanto  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:50:39am

#155 Adrenalyn

True, but in hindsight only.
As many comments above have said, it's very difficult, most often impossible, to follow your insights and intuitions IN REAL TIME.

Plus, in our culture we are educated NOT to follow the Magic from the Deep...

161 FabioC.  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 8:53:25am

#158 alegrias

You mean Joschka Fischer the German foreign minister with "street gang" cred? He & his ilk or generation of 1968 as far as I'm concerned have the same mentality as Ward Churchill only they're running EUrope!

You've touched another important point: in Europe (and not only) those who were rebel teenagers in the '60s and '70s now have the age to be professors, politicians with power, managers (despite their professed communism), media patrons.

162 Ariana  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 9:01:28am

OT (hat tip Cox and Forkum)
Looks like the Germans have protest Warriors too

Cox & Forkum editorial cartoons were used in yesterday’s March for German-American Friendship in Mainz, Germany.

163 T_IT_UP  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 9:08:17am

#83 BabbaZee:

And a very Good Afternoon to you, BZ!

#87 Mr Pol:

Wouldn't ya' know it?! My proofreader was on break, and I left out my standard Mr Pol Disclaimer. Oops!
;8^'D

164 Mr Pol  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 9:10:34am

#163 T_IT_UP

What really pisses me off is that I still don't have her phone number :-)

165 Sheet o' Glass  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 9:11:10am

#122 skoi

Yes. Commish Sylvester Johnson is a muslim.

166 alegrias  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 9:12:06am

#161 Fabio

You're right, yech, another one who came close to "leading": Monsieur Kerry--with a Swiss boarding school education--ached to join the "revolution."

God bless the Swift Boat Veterans for sparing us a president in bed with Arafat, Syria and other Baathist "revolutionaries."

167 Religion+Rwing=ignorance  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 9:14:11am

In this tragedy is religion is the culprit? Whose god is responsible for 911? Why does a god allow such incompetence? This tragedy is based on the belief that atonement will prevail out of a final reckoning with Islam. So much death over a religious belief is sickening. No one god is almighty.

168 Sheet o' Glass  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 9:15:48am

#167

uhhh... you made a wrong turn at DU, this isn't kos. try clicking your heels together and say "there is no place like home" 3 times.

169 LiveFreeOrDie  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 9:19:50am
#31 EE  2/24/2005 09:28AM PST

If all other things were equal, then political correctness would be commendable.

Right, its only because of terrorists the Politcal Correctness is a problem. Not because it limits free thought.

Get a clue.

170 Baldy  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 9:22:30am

Even AFTER 9/11, people are punished for their PC "sins."

171 grayp  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 9:23:17am

I think #167 is Evolution's Eve cousin

172 FabioC.  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 9:23:59am

#170 Baldy

Yeah, check Mineta who sent out a letter to remind that PC is the altar on which sacrifice anything else, while the wreckage of the WTC and Pentagon were still smouldering.

173 susanita  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 9:26:35am

#167
You are seriously deluded about this.

The Islamic terrorists killed innocent Americans for what they claim are religious reasons.

We are trying to protect ourselves.

There is only one religion that is at fault here. The terrorists believe that their religion calls them to kill you and me. They started it.

God has nothing to do with it. It is entirely down to men.

174 Millie Woods  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 9:27:43am

OT but absolutely mind-boggling and disgusting. From The Weekly Standard via no-pasaran.

Brussels
WHEN JOHAN VANDE LANOTTE, Belgium's Vice Prime Minister, goes to the toilets today, he finds the urinals in the offices of his ministry decorated with stickers. They show an American flag and the head of George W. Bush. "Go ahead. Piss on me," the caption says. Vande Lanotte is one of Bush's hosts in Brussels. Is peeing on your guest's head appropriate? In Belgium it is. After all, Brussels' best known statue is that of "Manneken Pis," a peeing boy.

The piss stickers, specially made to be used in urinals, can be seen these days in the public toilets of Belgian schools, youth clubs, and pubs. They were designed by Laurent Winnock, president of the Young Socialists, the youth branch of Vande Lanotte's Socialist party. Winnock did his creative work during his office hours, which would not be worth mentioning if Winnock did not work in the offices of Vice Prime Minister Vande Lanotte, as one of his press spokesmen.

Last Friday, Belgian television asked Robert "Steve" Stevaert, the Socialist party leader, what he thought of the stickers. It had not been his idea, he stressed, but he refused to distance himself from it. He hardly could, seeing as the stickers can be ordered for free through the party's official website. For Belgian television viewers the message was clear: Bush may be our government's guest, the ministers will greet him, smile and tell him that he is most welcome, but we all know what they think of the bastard.

For those who missed the
"subtlety" of the urinal stickers, Laurette Onkelinx, the Belgian minister of Justice and one of the Socialist party's most powerful figures, let go during prime time on Sunday evening, as Air Force One was about to land in Brussels. "I would rather have had John Kerry visiting us," she said on television. When the interviewer asked whether it was not undiplomatic to say so, she answered: "No. That is how I feel about it."

Meanwhile, however, a citizen of Ghent, where the stickers had also been distributed, has filed a complaint with the Belgian judiciary headed by Onkelinx. "This sticker has nothing to do with freedom of speech," he says. "If I go to the gents in the pub nowadays, I am forced to pee on Bush and the American flag because it is impossible to miss this sticker."

175 Baldy  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 9:29:56am

It's not his fault.

Gut instincts are good, I've kicked myself when I've ignored them. I did it once, and ended up with a gun to my head.

176 plutosdad  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 9:30:19am

#23 Actually if you look at Reid, he too looked like something was wrong with him. Sure, not arab, but still, the intution of looking into someone's eyes that cops have is a true one I think.

Gavin De Becker has a book "the gift of fear" that is all about how intuition is real and has saved lives, i would encourage everyone to read it, especially women.

177 grayp  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 9:31:22am

Baldy & Fabio C.

Mineta who sent out a letter to remind that PC is the altar on which sacrifice anything else,


Yes, but to give credit its due, it was Mineta who ordered everything grounded on 9/11 over the objections of the airlines and the FAA. I believe his words were " Get those fucking planes on the ground NOW

178 plutosdad  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 9:31:49am

#115

As a part owner of a survelliance company, :-) I must point out that that article is total crap.

It should read "half-assed implementations of surveillance don't show anything on camera"

Because when it's done well, it does work, as the article itself points out.

179 grayp  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 9:34:24am

#174 Millie Woods.

I am forced to pee on Bush and the American flag because it is impossible to miss this sticker."


No, actually, he's not. He could pee on the floor, walls, etc. Let 'em find out how they enjoyed the cleanup.

Wonder what they did in the ladies' rooms.

180 FabioC.  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 9:34:46am

#177 grayp

Credit where is due, indeed. The fact that someone does something wrong does not mean he is necessarily wrong all the time. Besides, what I was pointing out was not the failure of one man, but a systemic disease.

181 madawaskan  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 9:35:58am

On 9/11 my father called me and it was the first time I had to listen to him cry. He was saying something to the effect that I have worked my whole life to prevent something like this from happening and I can’t believe it

Well if I was a real stickler I could have called him on this. My father’s expertise for the AF was war planning. One of his most annoying close claims to fame is that he had something to do with the early warning broadcast systems alert. When one of these would go off on the television –my brother and I would plug our ears and cuss him out-Ghee thanks pops! /sarc. So the scenario had been though of. What is weird was I think one of his thoughts on the subject was if we had left the old SAC bases standing and still were watching for MIGs on the scopes we might have fared better. Whelp this is kind of like if the guy at Portland had done something. These Atta boys were pretty determined and they would have found another way. What’s funny is that people that dream up the “worst case scenarios” will still be shocked to see them actually implemented. This leads me to a strange hypothesis that the evil nature of man will always be aided by the belief that is clung to by others -that man cannot be that evil. Finally it will be overcome by the inherit good of man. On 9/11 the War on Terror was first fought by the firefighters who rather than face the hell on earth of helplessly watching people jump to their deaths they marched forward and decided that they would rather die on the slim chance that they could do something- rather than live with the unending nightmare of what if? Also the flight that ended in the ground in Pennsylvania. What those passengers did and have inspired the rest of us to do- forever- will be our best defense. Our best defense is the better nature of ourselves.

182 FabioC.  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 9:37:54am

#178 plutosdad

Contribution appreciated. The point that remains is that wether the chance of appearing on camera is a deterrent strong enough to prevent crime. Because, frankly, is only a small consolation to have the perpetrators caught afterwards.

183 grayp  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 9:41:26am

#181 madawaskan

Nice post.

-that man cannot be that evil. Finally it will be overcome by the inherit good of man.


I'm am in the process of becoming persuaded that the belief-system, against all evidence, that posits the inherent goodness of man, is really a refuge from the awesome (meant in the Biblical sense) responsibility of belief in G-d.

184 Right Wing Conspirator  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 9:44:24am

#171 grayp

I think #167 is Evolution's Eve cousin


Nope. :-P

185 grayp  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 9:47:41am

#184 RWC

Nope. :-P


Hi Cuddles! You mean the thing is real? Dayum! So. What do you call it when you need a refuge from the belief-system that posits the inherent stupidity of man?

186 redstateredneck  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 9:52:57am

#81 Babba Zee

I do. At the time, when they claimed they were a wedding band - I had said if I were the interrogating officer I would have made them take out their instruments and play Hava Nagila and a Tarantella.


They learned to fly airplanes, they could learn to play instruments.

187 BabbaZee  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 9:58:00am

redstateredneck

Playing an instrument is harder than learning how to pilot the plane into a huge target and not land, but point taken. It's still funny - I kept picturing a Mel Brooks type scene - play Hava Nagila. NOW!

188 madawaskan  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 10:00:12am

158# alegrias

Exactly I avoided his name because I can't spell it worth a damn.

I can't even spell foreign right half the time.

Slightly OT. Speaking of planning for the worst-like 9/11.

The arguments against SDI have driven me nuts for years. In the old days it was the arguments against were;
1) We can control proliferation.
2) No countries that are ecomomically challenged will be able to have the knowledge base to create them on their own or be able to buy them.
3) No leader could come to power of a country and be insane.
The leaders would always be sane and checkmated by the mutually assured destruction clause.

whelp BS BS and more BS.

Flash foward to our buddies at NORAD-Canada. Paul Martin their imbroiled PM in a consistent effort to appease Bloc Qeubecois (something the Maritme province Frank McKenna is an expert at living with the "bloc" threat-and now the new ambassador to the US-scew Calgary) has decided to beg out of participating in SDI. One of the Canadian arguments against is the pollution caused by the "sites" to their frozen tundra.

Well in short dear Canada your frozen tundra will thaw a lot faster from the nuclear fallout that could happen next door.

Cripes I remember when you all cried about Acid Rain Welp this my friends would be nothing in comparison...

But you know pollution of space is so much more important. and a nuclear bomb will never miss the US and rain on your parade. That would never happen. And getting the nuke 5 out of 8 times those odds aren't worth it. SARCASM intended.

189 Ariana  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 10:05:29am

madawaskan

Great to see you :-)

190 richdavis53  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 10:06:50am

Everyone should contact their Senators and Congressmen and request they stop the insanity and allow our airlines to PROFILE the passengers!

Tell them we need to change the laws so that when the "spidersense" of a ticket counter agent goes off, he can stop the suspects from boarding without losing his job.

Recommend they use the research from Michael Smerconish's book, "Flying Blind" and make some common sense changes, because currently - NOTHING HAS CHANGED.

Airlines are sued if they aggressively question a Muslim/Arab male or if they question more than a couple per day, this is nuts.

My WASP neighbor just returned from a trip to Seatle and was frisked coming and going, she's 55 and doesn't look anything like Mohammed Atta. In the meantime, Arabs could have walked on by and boarded, unchallenged...

191 madawaskan  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 10:06:57am

#183-

grayp-thank you. I think some people have a problem with there is a choice. You do have the free will.

192 kiwiviv  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 10:07:16am

I know all LGFers would want to lift the burden of this off the shoulders of Michael Tuohey.

193 vxbush  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 10:11:08am

If I had listened to the inner voice that told me to turn left at the first intersection rather than go straight, I could have avoided a car crash that left my son seriously disabled.

Granted, it wasn't me who caused the accident; that was the other person. But don't think it hasn't kept me awake at night.

194 madawaskan  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 10:13:17am

Thanks Ariana-

I thought I was not welcomed but I decided not to let one person speak for ALL of LGF. LGF posters are the most intelligent thought provoking and funny in the blogosphere.

195 redstateredneck  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 10:14:53am
My WASP neighbor just returned from a trip to Seatle and was frisked coming and going, she's 55 and doesn't look anything like Mohammed Atta. In the meantime, Arabs could have walked on by and boarded, unchallenged...


I took my 6th grade Girl Scout troop to Disney World in March of '02 and they pullled me out of line to check. Twelve little girls were all wondering what their Girl Scout leader had done.

196 NuclearTinkerbell  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 10:20:27am

#106 FabioC.

Well, just speculating, but it is possible that people very nervous or excited will emit some particular substance with sweat, with a smell that some people can pick up - even inconsciously - and recognize as a sign of danger.

Very probably. I used to congratulate myself on how observant I was about human natures. I could just sense evil people, and my dog corroborated my 'magic sense' by growling at the people I felt were menacing.

Then, it occurred to me that my dog was picking up on my scent and following my lead. No magic, just my adrenaline oozing out of me, causing my dog to react to my reaction. I think.

197 Renna  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 10:20:45am

I don't know WHAT you guys are doing to tick off the screeners, but I never get checked. So there. ;-P

198 kiwiviv  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 10:21:05am

#193 vxbush

I am sorry to hear about your son - may God bless you and your family as you raise this boy.

199 The Christopher  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 10:21:09am

I bet only Atta knew that they were commiting suicide.

200 susanita  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 10:26:26am

195 redstateredneck

I had to get frisked and go through the "special security" when my license was stolen (not suprisingly) but I was standing waiting with 2 people who recently bought tickets because they were going to a funeral and they were both crying, I felt so bad. They automatically check:
people who pay cash
people who buy at the last minute
people who miss a connection
one way tickets.

Did the 911 hijackers meets any of the above criteria? NO.

201 vxbush  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 10:29:41am

#198 kiwiviv

Thanks. We're ten years post accident (wow, that's amazing) as of this coming July, and he's made amazing progress, considering how close he came to dying.

But we have many good days, and he brings us a lot of love.

202 HULUGU  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 10:30:29am

i know what this guy means--in the spring of 2001--i was walking up atlantic avenue in the small beach town of delray beach fla when i saw three middle eastern looking men walking straight down the street toward me--now delray beach is a white bread town so these guys stood out like a sore thumb [i am from ny and they looked like many of the newsdealers one does business every day in terms of etnicity]--i'm not a racist but i remember thinking to myself--what are these guys doing here?--so i looked directly at them with a quasi quizzical expression on my face and they looked directly back at me--one of them had this sneering haughty expression on his face while another one had this goofy grin--they were walking fast with a purposive air which was out of placeof place in this laid back resort--the sneering one looked directly at me as if to say--you looking at me--sheer hated and arrogance in his face--i remember thinking man what's up with these guys--well the rest is history--6 months later when atta and al amari had their pictures all over the press--my bell was rung and i KNEW these were the guys i had seen that day--later it was shown that in fact delray beach was a base for a number of these guys--they were living and planning 9/11 there as well as deerfield beach--its just WIERD that i remembered these guys as sticking out as of course does the airport screener--al amari obviously was smiling because he was going to be a great martyr and get his 72 virgin complements of the pimp god allah--atta was just a twisted angry proto homo whose hatred of woman and the west were overwhelming--i often think that if i, walking down the street in a small beach town in florida, could spot these guys as out of place no goodniks--where were the cia and fbi on this--we've all grown up and understand many things since then which has changed our perceptions--but these guys set off an interior alarm in someone who had no knowledge at the time of islamofascism or the caliphate--just a sixth sense to some chilling dudes who perked up my situational awareness antenna enough to think--what are these guys doing here,they're up to no good--true story

203 zulubaby  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 10:33:33am
As they walked through the metal detectors, out of his sight, the jackets and ties were gone. Now the two were wearing open-neck dress shirts when they went through security.

Where and when did they change their clothes, and why? The article isn't very well written. I just felt the need to say that although I'm not sure why. The whole thing makes me sick, just thinking about these bastards and what they were plotting right under our noses.

204 zulubaby  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 10:35:28am

HULUGU, that's utterly creepy and haunting.

205 kiwiviv  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 10:36:05am

#201 vxbush

I will pray for your family and for your son today. For some reason your wee story has touched my heart. How old is your son?

#202 HULUGU

It is very hard to read posts like yours - may I suggest paragraphing?

206 vxbush  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 10:42:13am

#205 kiwiviv

My son is 20 now. The accident happened when he was 10. He spent two weeks in intensive care, two weeks in pediatrics, and seven months in rehab (would have been longer, but that's a long, long story).

He still acts like a teenager. He has this huge crush on Ann Hathaway. But then, he still acts like a ten-year old kid. He loves Star Wars, Star Trek, and X-Men.


Hmm. But then, so do I, and I'm nowhere near 20. :-) :-)

207 zulubaby  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 10:43:44am

HULUGU, read this for a laugh ;-)

208 pookleblinky  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 10:50:55am

#206

Anne Hathaway? Shakespeare wouldn't like that too much.

209 kiwiviv  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 10:51:05am

#206 vxbush

Thank you - he sounds like a perfectly delightful 20 year old. My son is 24 next month - he is on his way home from a year in Iraq. Right now he is doing duty in Kuwait - driving big wigs all over the place.

210 vxbush  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 10:57:24am

#209 kiwiviv

I know how close I came to losing my son, so I can only imagine the feelings you must have, knowing that he's heading home soon. Much love to you, and my thanks to your son for serving his country.

211 richdavis53  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 10:59:05am

susanita #200,

Yes, they each had ONE-WAY tickets to LA that cost $2500 each. And they were purchased at the last minute...

212 kiwiviv  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 11:03:04am

#210 vxbush

Thank you - yes, we are so relieved that he is coming home - our children are precious.

I will hold you and yours in prayer today.

Bye for now - I have to head out to a conference in San Fran.

213 Susanita  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 11:05:39am

I have read many other places, and I will find them for you in a minute (if I have time I'm at work) that they didn't use 1 way tickets.
I guess Atta had one but others didn't.
They used credit cards to buy their tickets.

214 HULUGU  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 11:09:54am

ZB--thaat's funny--hollywood laugh--without even knowing me zorkie has me down--look/car lol--gee what if the reality doesn't merge with the fantasy--i almost came out for the oscars--indep spirit awards actually--my niece's company produced "spotless mind"--but didn't--would've had to pack slicker and wellingtons--but we're still on eventually if your still booish--know what i'm sayin' baby mama

215 Lady of Shalott (ylreveb)  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 11:11:59am

Well, not all Egyptian men are fugly. Omar Sharif, per esempio, was fairly edible. ;-) But he wasn't a mass murderer, just an actor and hard-core gambler.

The Atta thing was like something possessed by an Evil Entity. Beelzebub, anyone? It was no longer a man, having no longer a soul.

Just a thought, friends: Whenever the Morlocks defend terrorists' "rights," ask them why they're so keen to defend mass murderers. Did they grieve when John Wayne Gacy died? and he killed far fewer people than the Atta thing.

216 Lady of Shalott (ylreveb)  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 11:13:12am

#10 american infidel

I don't think it is the actual physcial features that you find ugly, it is the evil spirit of satan that you are seeing in that face...

That is what is making your hackles rise...

Word.

217 HULUGU  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 11:14:10am

kiwiviv--sorry--asking me to paragraph is like asking picasso to paint like richard estes or asking ee cummings to capitalize --the strokes and the folks be different if you know what i mean

218 zulubaby  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 11:14:27am

HULUGU, zorkie is hilarious. I've been in other episodes too. LOL. You should have come to LA, it's stopped raining now -- just another perfect day :-)

We're on baby daddy, but you'd better hurry up ...

219 Mr Pol  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 11:17:13am

#215 Lady of Shalott (ylreveb)

Well, not all Egyptian men are fugly. Omar Sharif, per esempio, was fairly edible. ;-) But he wasn't a mass murderer, just an actor and hard-core gambler.

OTOH when he played bridge he had plenty of killer instinct.

220 Lady of Shalott (ylreveb)  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 11:17:37am

Yesterday, the NY Daily News and the NY Post said the ME's office is giving up on IDing 1,100 WTC victims.

The DNA is not there, or unstable, or no trace was found...

That's well over a third of those the Atta thing and its accomplices massacred.

221 Lady of Shalott (ylreveb)  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 11:40:38am

#100 Cattt

from your link about Richard Reid's sentencing:

"I admit my actions, I admit my alliances to Osama Bin Laden, I do not apologise for my actions and I am still at war with your country."

The judge looked shocked and looking Reid straight in the eye he managed to hold his composure but there were a few tense seconds in the court room. Then the judge addressed Reid directly.

"Richard Reid, you are a terrorist, we do not negotiate with terrorists we hunt them down, you hate our freedom," he said.

Pointing to a flag hanging on a wall behind him he said: "Richard Reid see that flag, that is the flag of the United States of America, it will fly there long after this is over and I am now sentencing you to life in prison."

222 HULUGU  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 11:49:51am

btw--malcolm gladwell has written a current nytimes best seller called "blink"--about the power and correctness of "rapid cognition"--ie what happens in the first two seconds of apprehending a new situation--so while its not intuition--there is recent neuro-biological evidence for the correctness of decision making that goes along with our first impressions--spooky, but scientifically valid based on the most recent evidence

223 richdavis53  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 12:03:26pm

susanita #213, Here's a quote from the article, which states they both had one-way tickets.

[He thought the pair were unusual. First, they each held a $2,500 first-class, one-way ticket to Los Angeles (via Boston). "You don't see many of those."]

Based on the cost of $2500 each, these tickets were purchased at the last minute (up to a day or 2 before departure).

They should not have been allowed on that plane but because of political correctness, there was nothing that could be done, then or now, and so, the terrorists were allowed to board and they will be allowed to board tomorrow unless some profiling laws, some PC laws, are changed.

Write or Call your elected officials and demand a change to this madness.

224 atlasshrugged  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 12:05:59pm

so wild

and the subsequent unfolding of events continues to

i hang my head in shame

Mayor Bloomschmuck actually defends the Hate Mail to the troopsMayor Bloomschmuck of NYC DEFENDS Hate Letters to Brave trrops overseas

225 zulubaby  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 12:15:50pm
Intuition strikes me as a concept we use to describe emotional reactions, gut feelings--thoughts and impressions that don't' seem entirely rational.

I absolutely believe in intuition, it's what guides me through life. Yes, it may be emotional, but I am an emotional being so it would make sense for me to rely on my instincts that way. I also believe in soul recognition. I'm much more touchy-feely than I am cerebral and I'd say that I'm almost never wrong. The book sounds interesting, I'd like to read it.

226 HULUGU  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 12:17:12pm

ZB--glad you're still barely available--you got sun in la--now its snowing in ny--i'll probably be in aspen in march--could meet halfway--oh fuck it --i'll go all the way if you will too--lol

227 zulubaby  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 12:17:41pm

Got the quote here, by the way.

228 zulubaby  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 12:19:13pm
i'll go all the way if you will too

LOL! You'll have to wine and dine me sweetheart. Send me a ticket, I'll meet you in Aspen.

229 Jason Pappas  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 12:32:50pm

#224 Atlas

Damn, you’re right! Bloomy must be brain dead … and I just thought he had bad taste in art. The SOB is an idiot or worse. Remember when Rudy Giuliani refused to treat Arafat with respect even if the UN insisted? Now that’s a mayor.

BTY, you're blog is looking good as usual.

230 HULUGU  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 12:34:09pm

ZB--oy-- i can't believe you're such a trip whore--how much more jappy [as of 2/11/05] can you get--food-wine AND transportatation--in the old days i used to use plane tickets as an aphrodesiac--but its not out of the realm--i'm exploring my options and i don't mean stock--will know more next week--blink--i see hermes scarfs in your future ;-]

231 Goddessoftheclassroom  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 12:42:14pm

I woke up in the middle of the night and couldn't fall asleep for awhile. I opened my Bibly to Revelation and started reading.

I know it's metaphorical, but the references to a "false prohet" about 500 years before Mohammad stun me.

BTW, in 1994 My husband, two-year old son, and I were flying back to America from England where we had been visiting family and attending my husband's degree ceremony in November. At that time, the bomb-in-the-suitcase was the MO of terrorists. We had several wrapped Christmas packages in our carry-on luggage. The security screener apologized but explained he had to check every package. I smiled and told him I understood and to please go ahead. He gently peeld up the tape an peaked, then sealed the tape again.

Bottom line: we at at war with Islamofascists who hate us and want to kill us. We know this. To refuse to act on what little actual knowledge we have is just too stupid.

232 HULUGU  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 12:43:22pm

ZB--btw thanks for the gladwell link --"thin slicing" seems alot like occam's razor to me--gotta run-talk to you later

233 zulubaby  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 12:47:24pm

HULUGU, LOL! You're a trip :-)

First of all I got my passport yesterday so now I'm really swanking. Secondly ...

food-wine AND transportatation--in the old days i used to use plane tickets as an aphrodesiac

What was, was. And what do you think, that I'm buying my own ticket!? No chance ;-)

234 zulubaby  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 12:47:57pm

Bye my boo, see ya.

235 hm  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 12:49:24pm
The other fellow (“he was young and had a goofy smile, I can’t believe he knew he was going to die that day”) was Abdul Aziz al Omari.


That's probaly because he didn't.

236 Lazarus  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 12:54:38pm

#133 Renna

That's an excellent post. I couldn't agree more.

237 Logic  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 1:04:09pm

Mohammed Atta looks (looked) like a goddam vampire, as creepy as the one in Nosferatu.

238 zulubaby  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 1:06:51pm
“It was just the look on the one man’s face, his eyes,”

Dead eyes, there's no soul there.

239 Megan  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 1:12:11pm
And subconsciously, I said to myself, ‘If they don’t look like Arab terrorists, nothing does.’ ”

Well clearly he's just a right-wing, bigoted raaaciiist!

He looked so angry. And he wouldn’t look directly at me.”

Well of course they were angry, they were in the imperialist, Zionazi, capitalist Amerikkka with the stupid, evil-genius selected-not-elected ChimpyMcBushHitler as president! He was concerned with the plight of Muslims and Arabs who could have been profiled when they were planning to resist Amerikkkan imperialist fascism by "hijacking" the planes. And of the plight of the third world and the poor, becuase the Americans and Jews are to blame for all their problems!
/LLL

240 peggie  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 1:28:36pm

a lot of events led to 9-11 and someone who was but a link to it shouldn't beat themselves up. intuition is great, but you better be right. by the time you mull it over in your head, the event has most often passed. there was the guy in miami [?] who stopped the 20th [possible] hijacker even though his co-workers warned him not too. part of our problem was the frank ammendment that made it impossible to deny entry into the country of an individual from a terrorist supporting country - you would have to prove that the person committed the crime. this was sponsored by barney frank [worried about rights] in the early 80's after reagan tried to close the loops after the berlin massacre. also, foreign college students are a money making deal for our colleges. around 1994, we realized that we had no real knowledge of just what was going on with the foreign students - signing up for class and never being seen again, etc. they had a tracking program, but it wasn't implimented because of the cost. the colleges [recognizing a cash cow when they saw it] didn't want to track the students [time consuming, etc] and the foreign students didn't feel that the cost of this tracking system should be levied on them. atta should have been stopped when he was stopped by police for speeding.

241 dhimmishelter  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 2:48:56pm

#97 guzziguy

Great pop quiz. You are correct sir, I could not detect any patterns from the answers I gave, however I will need an answer key. (the distractors were just too plausible) Perhaps you could post them upside down below the list of multiple choice questions?

I realize it is a bit late for this but I might add one or two more questions:

In 1968, Senator Robert Kennedy was shot and killed in a Los Angeles hotel after winning the California Democratic primary and was the clear front-runner to face Richard Nixon for the general election. At the time, many felt he would win the Presidency. This murder was done by:

(a) Rosey Grier
(b) Rafer Johnson
(c) Bebe Rebozo
(d) Muslim male extremist mostly between the ages of 17 & 40


QUESTION 2
On September 1, 2004 terrorists captured more than 1300 hostages at the local School #1 in Beslan, Russia. Hundreds of young children spent 53 hours without water and food in an overcrowded hot gymnasium, wired with explosives. They witnessed the beatings and murders of family members, friends and teachers.

The detonation of the bombs caused a fire and the collapse of the roof completed the devastation, leaving more than 300 dead (most of them young children), hundreds wounded, and thousands scarred for life. Many of the children who did survive will never walk or run again. Many are disfigured, will not see, hear or smell again.Dozens of children became orphans and some became handicapped for life

This act was committed by:

(a) The crew of the Love Boat
(b) Opposition candidates for the local school board
(c) Moe, Larry, Curly, Shemp, and Curly Joe
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 & 40
(oops, looks like one of the distractors needs to be updated, as it appears that the Chechen "rebels" have a far more enlightened attitude regarding the full participation of women in the most important aspects of their culture)

Still something about these various acts seems to trump gender, perhaps the nihilistic beliefs of the adherents to the prophet?

242 Hurin son of Huor  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 4:17:33pm

“It was just the look on the one man’s face, his eyes...”

Sometimes that shark looks right at ya. Right into your eyes. And the thing about a shark is he's got lifeless eyes. Black eyes. Like a doll's eyes. When he comes at ya, he doesn't even seem to be livin'... 'til he bites ya, and those black eyes roll over white and then... ah then you hear that terrible high-pitched screamin'.

If you don't remember that quote, bow your head in shame.

Quint: Japanese submarine slammed two torpedoes into her side, Chief. We was comin' back from the island of Tinian to Leyte. We'd just delivered the bomb. The Hiroshima bomb. Eleven hundred men went into the water. Vessel went down in 12 minutes. Didn't see the first shark for about a half-hour. Tiger. 13-footer. You know how you know that in the water, Chief? You can tell by lookin' from the dorsal to the tail. What we didn't know, was that our bomb mission was so secret, no distress signal had been sent. They didn't even list us overdue for a week. Very first light, Chief, sharks come cruisin' by, so we formed ourselves into tight groups. It was sorta like you see in the calendars, you know the infantry squares in the old calendars like the Battle of Waterloo and the idea was the shark come to the nearest man, that man he starts poundin' and hollerin' and sometimes that shark he go away... but sometimes he wouldn't go away. Sometimes that shark looks right at ya. Right into your eyes. And the thing about a shark is he's got lifeless eyes. Black eyes. Like a doll's eyes. When he comes at ya, he doesn't even seem to be livin'... 'til he bites ya, and those black eyes roll over white and then... ah then you hear that terrible high-pitched screamin'. The ocean turns red, and despite all your poundin' and your hollerin' those sharks come in and... they rip you to pieces. You know by the end of that first dawn, lost a hundred men. I don't know how many sharks there were, maybe a thousand. I do know how many men, they averaged six an hour. Thursday mornin', Chief, I bumped into a friend of mine, Herbie Robinson from Cleveland. Baseball player. Boson's mate. I thought he was asleep. I reached over to wake him up. He bobbed up, down in the water, he was like a kinda top. Upended. Well, he'd been bitten in half below the waist. At noon on the fifth day, a Lockheed Ventura swung in low and he spotted us, a young pilot, lot younger than Mr. Hooper here, anyway he spotted us and a few hours later a big ol' fat PBY come down and started to pick us up. You know that was the time I was most frightened. Waitin' for my turn. I'll never put on a lifejacket again. So, eleven hundred men went into the water. 316 men come out, the sharks took the rest, June the 29th, 1945. Anyway, we delivered the bomb.

243 Matthew Goggins  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 5:31:33pm

The story of Michael Tuohey and his encounter with the hijackers Atta and Al Omari is very dramatic.

The most interesting part is that he was trained to reject his intuition, and he would have been punished after the fact for intercepting the bad guys.

In fact, the story goes on to say:

Consider that in the aftermath of 9/11, American, United, Continental and Delta airlines were fined millions of dollars by the Department of Transportation for instances where the DOT believed airline employees had factored race, gender, ethnicity, religion or appearance into security-screening decisions.

Worst of all, that remains government policy. Airline employees in this country are still told in their training that they can never take into consideration the race or religion of a passenger when making judgments about suspicious behavior. This, despite that all 19 on 9/11 had those characteristics in common!

Mr. Tuohey's mistake is quite understandable. It would have been remarkable if he had actually done something to stop the killers.

But the continued government prohibition of passenger profiling is scandalous. I don't understand it.

244 zigzag  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 9:03:27pm

throughout my life, many things are only clear in retrospect. He was suspicious but not convinced. None of us can read the future. That is what I remember most from the morning of 9/11 --- the utter shock and being completely mentally unprepared for what I was seeing on TV.

245 SoCal Republican  Thu, Feb 24, 2005 9:33:26pm

re: Joel #5 and #8

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. I am not a moonbat. I have been to Egypt. I travelled extensively in Egypt just after the 2000 election. It was by far the best trip I have ever taken. I went with a friend, we did not go on a tour. Every person we met was welcoming and friendly. As two single women traveling (and we are straight so strike that from your bigoted mind JOEL) from the USA I can assure you we had our share of heckling ("hello, where you from? I asked you, where are you from? ") and we thanked the women's lib movement profusely when, on our return to LAX after four weeks of hard travelling we were first greeted by an African-American woman asking us "where did you go?" at the Custom's Desk. We both told her we wanted to hug her (there are no female workers in these positions in Egypt -- and absolutely no Africans male or female).

Aside from the sexist older men and sporadic heckling from the younger males, the Eygptians are, by far, a sophisticated, smart and politically astute people. They were well-attuned with the 2000 election problems, all we met joked with us regarding the election, they all said, "we only want peace." I firmly believe them.

DON'T GENERALIZE WITH YOUR LAZY UGLY AMERICAN COMMENTS. I can assure you, I met and heard plenty of other citizens from the USA on this trip and I was embarrassed by their complete lack of understanding and ungracious comments when they were in this beautiful country (rolling of the eyes because there were no "Cheerios" at breakfast, or better yet, "I SAID DIET COKE WITH ICE! THIS IS COKE WITH NO ICE!").

Isn't the point the travelling to experience other cultures? And "NO" their culture isn't built around the "destruction to America and Israel" crap that you think, it is built around a beautiful, vibrant culture centered around the Nile. If you don't believe me, save up your $$ and travel there yourself (but something tells me you never venture beyond your TV, computer, and job). Nothing has changed there since 9/11. They still admire and respect America.

Try very, very hard to understand that the majority of humans on this planet value and treasure the same things we do. Many don't have voices because of the oppressive governments but that does not stop them from going to pages like this. Many too are looking to what is happening in Iraq for hope.

There is a MINORITY of people who think like you JOEL #5 and #8. It is this 10% minority like you (and your good buddies include the Islamic Fascists and Neo-Nazis) who screw everything up for the rest of us. You are no different than MOHAMMED ATTA (MAY HE BURN IN HELL) of this world with your bigoted asshole remarks, "why are all Egyptians so ugly?" Look in the mirror JOEL, I doubt many would label you "pleasing and good natured."

JOEL #5 is one of the people who get LGF labeled as "little Nazis" speak out against his crap of lies and this blog may get a little more respect.

246 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Feb 25, 2005 4:00:01am

Yep, SoCal, it was DUmb thing for Joel to say.

I first went to Egypt in 1978 and I've been back several times since.
It is hard to square the hard-working, friendly people I met everywhere I went there with the venomous propaganda emanating from the state-controlled media and religious establishment.
I have had a chance to observe this mass-poisoning first-hand as it has grown and spread over the past 25 years.
To state it simply, it is the obvious influence of foreigners, specifically of the Wahhabi oil-ticks and the mountains of loot they spread to every corner of the Muslim world.
Egypt itself is one of the great nations of the world, while Saudi Arabia is little more than a lair for desert bandits, but Egypt is a poor country with a huge population and SA is very rich and thinly populated.
In 1978, the big issue was of course the Camp David accords. Ordinary Egyptians were ecstatic over it, for they had borne the brunt of three wars against Israel. The oil ticks were hysterical in their denunciations of Egyptian "treachery" despite their own minimal to non-existent participation in the fighting. This prompted one Egyptian official to quip, "They are willing to fight to the last Egyptian."


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