Maybe we should just go the "missile deflector" route. You mean the missile hit Toronto? Oops!

As a Canadian, I'm sorry.

I'm getting bloody sick of having to point out that there are a good number of us who are hoping for almost an antithesis of our current government.

Toronto? Bad... Quebec? Good... (just kidding...)

On second thought...

Please, please, please, for the love of G-d, annex us!

Hate to see the Canadians do something silly... If the Canadians don't look out for Canada, who will?

U.S. says it would fire missiles over Canada

OTTAWA -- The United States will decide when to fire missiles over Canadian airspace whether Canada likes it or not, says America's ambassador. The blunt warning from Paul Cellucci came minutes after Prime Minister Paul Martin announced yesterday that he will not sign on to the controversial U.S. missile defence program.

#4 Grumpy Tory Student

I wish we could do just that! Canadians gave us some pretty cool things like hockey and Lacrosse.

Well, if they won't watch the sky, can they at least to a better job than the Mexicans of watching their border?

Well, if we shoot down an incoming missile over Canada without their permission, I guess they'll just have to declare war on us.

I love the bit about having to consult with and get approval of the Canadian government as the missile is incoming - has anyone explained to the Canadian government how fast missiles travel - or did they think that they could approve the shootdown within a minute or two after being informed?

Canada is becoming more European every day. Now like the Europeans their government refuses to defend itself, leaving it up to the US to do all defense that needs to be done, and assuming that the US will do the necessary work effectively, and at no cost to themselves.

8 christheprofessor

can they at least to a better job than the Mexicans of watching their border?

God, I hope not.

American Liberals Sneaking Across Border Into Canada

Whats makes it funnier is I cant be sure its satire.

Why?!

Why? Why? Why? Why? Why?!

This just shows the total insanity of the left, in it most undiluted form North of the Border. They are less afraid of the United States than they are of a strong, virtuous, good United States protecting against genuine evil people. Their politicians hate the US, and what it stands for, more than they love their own people.

OT, but intriguing and funny

This guy is holding a rabbit ransom for $50,000.00. He has already gotten $15,000.00

I try to sort out what to do about him and his ilk here with a libertarian/authoritarian dialogue.

Sorry, Canada. You've elected a weak-kneed moron.
That's just plain pitiful.

Martin is a moonbat of the hightest (no pun intended) order.

Obviously, I don't blame Canadian citizens for this back-handed slap to the face. I blame their government. Even the most pacifistic Canadian citizens must realize that any attack from China, Russia, or North Korea would travel through the Arctic region, over Canada, before reaching the US. I suppose they'll just have to pray that Russian rockets are built well enough to make the entire journey instead of falling 500 miles short.

But the leader of the NDP said the only delusion is in the minds of people imagining scare scenarios of some potential missile attack.

"These are the kind of hypothetical questions that (George) Bush has tried to create in the minds of people to elevate a sense of fear.

"The fact is that if Canada is a part of a program like this, then we become a target."

Weakness is strength, vulnerability is security.

They will regret this when North Korea or Iran drop a load of shit on Montreal or Calgary, but Quebec will cheer. We should not wait for this to happen

pre-emptive good, waiting for it, no good!

#11 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I should have specified that we don't give a rat's arse which moonbats sneak out, we just want to make sure those who would harm us don't sneak in...

We used to have a bond with Canada. Both nations were peopled by mostly white, Christian, Anglo/European, Western folks. We were neighbors, and almost brothers. North America was our continent, and we protected it together. We were there for each other.

I guess that's all gone now.

18 christheprofessor

I know, just kidding.

It is a pity to see what has happened to a once great, proud and courageous nation. The nation that sent soldiers to fight against fascists in Europe and fought valiantly, is now implementing sharia law in various provicnes and joining the EU in the common bond of hatred toward the US, Austraiia, and Britain. PC run amok, with a dash of Vichy French nationalism makes for bitter stew north of our border. It is a pity to see what they have become.

Whatever happened to Brian Mulroney?

Oh well, perhaps when they fully implement sharia law so that the property,.... er I mean women that are imprisoned to the male followers of the profit they can count on their friends in the Muddle East to defend them. They don't get it, half measures don't work with the [bigoted word] fascists, it is either total submission, dhimmitude, or death.
Too bad, I was going to visit soon. Not now. Not a dime spent in the future provinces of Canadastan.

"The first impact, he suggested, will come next year when the Norad agreement comes up for renewal..."

Let's hope that "the first impact" wipes out only the leftie moonbat Canadians who value liberalism more than integrity...

Presuming, for a moment, to speak for all right-thinking Americans, could I ask all sensible Canadians to move to one city, preferably something near a red US state? Thank you.

OT... I didn't see anyone mention the Hollywood actor that came out Republican tonight.

I suspect part of the issue with the Canadians - besides their annoying penchant for following European trends - is money. Quite simply, the Canadian healtcare care system is bankrupting the country and, as a result, they've been cannibalizing the defense budget to pay for it all for years. That is only going to get worse.

Missle defense ain't gonna be cheap, though, obviously the Canadian government is.

I wonder if terrorist could threaten to launch a nuke on Canada in order to force the US to respond. We are tied together in enough ways where I doubt we could afford to ignore it.

I suppose the most likely threat would be from the direction of North Korea, so the Aegis stationed around Japan and the ABM in Alaska and California would have a good shot at any missle first.

if I were bush I would do a press confrence and speak directly to the canadian people, I would tell them that thier government has spoken and we are genuinely sorry that we will have to ascede to thier wishes and soveriegnty by not firing missles over canadian territory even though those missles would be meant for incoming nukes.

and if they (the canadian people) have a problem being immolated in a nuclear holocoust in order to asert thier independence and soveriegnty they need to take it up with thier government.

but under no circumstances will we violate canadian soveriegnty.......

maybe a speach like that might finnally light a fire under the normal canucks sitting on thier butts.

To remember that these are the children and granchildren of the men who took Juno.

I think that we should seek a formal statement from the Canadian government that if we a tracking a missile that is en route to impact on a Canadian city, that the Canadian government does not want us to shoot it down.

Methinks the Canadian officers at NORAD will soon politely be shown the door...

#8 christheprofessor  2/25/2005 07:18PM PST

Well, if they won't watch the sky, can they at least to a better job than the Mexicans of watching their border?

Unfortunately, I think the Mexican border is our own fault.

It would be nice to have real partners though.

#26: Canada is still a democracy, for now. The people elect their government, and are responsible for its actions.

Hey, I'm a loser, baby,

I'm a loser, baby

So why don't you kill me

Let the pillaging begin.

#29 Livefree or die

Unfortunately, I think the Mexican border is our own fault.

You are correct, sir...

So - if Canada is rejecting missile defense, that means they will be accepting missiles, right?

Or am I missing something?

and renting all the good Susan Sarandon movies.

I have my own copy of The Rocky Horror Picture Show on DVD...

Did she do anything else of interest?

Martin - Canada's version of Jimmy Carter.

OT -- maybe

I recently viewed an old movie, The 300 Spartans, about the Greeks who defended, to the last man, at Thermopylae, against the tens of thousands of invading Persians under Xerxes in 480BC.

One of the plot themes was the selfish every-city-state-for-its-own-defense idea, among the several democracies.

Freedom versus slavery; how to provide for the common defense; how to balance freedom, liberty and duty.

Some things never change.

The cruel irony of it is that if a missile is bound for, say, Chicago, western Ontario is gonna get a noxious radioactive cloud, even though the missile wasn't bound for them.

Reassuring to note that Canadaian Alliance Leading Man Stockwell Day, at least, recognized the threat of incoming missiles and the difficulties inherent to intercepting them...

I can hear another space scientist novelette brewing in Iowahawk's tractor tire of justice mug. RCMP, red suits, horses, missiles.

What a challenge. Can he rise to it?

hey... that rabbit thing gives me an idea :) I'll build a site for my jack russell.

Obviously, I don't blame Canadian citizens for this back-handed slap to the face. I blame their government.

Well, Canada has an elected government. And politicians tend to shy away from doing things they know will be unpopular. The truth is large sections of the Canadian public are moonbatty. Not all of them by a long shot, and certainly not our esteemed LGFers fron north of the border. But the sensible ones seem to be a definite minority outside of Alberta.

It's easy to be a pacifist when you've got the world's best military right next door - and you know they won't attack you. The Aussies are tougher, because they live in a tough neighborhood. The Canucks wouldn't be so cavalier about their own defense if they shared a border with China.

Please, please, please, for the love of G-d, annex us!

Well, grumpy Tory student, we'll be happy to take Alberta, having Quebec and Ontario join the U.S. would create a super monster Massachusetts - no friggin' way!

42 Rayra

I think he meant if it was not intercepted.

Seriously - Christopher Hitchens (partial ugh) writes in his most recent book about the disturbing trend (and the disastrous consequences) of so-called western civilizations refusing to stand up for themselves, be proud of themselves and protect themselves.

[I don't particularly care for his rather caustic opinion of religions.]

The Canadians have bad timing. They announce this the same day as a successful test.

#13 JD said,"Sorry, Canada. You've elected a weak-kneed
moron. ..."

Dude, you forgot to add AGAIN.

The main qualification to be PM of Canada is to be a weak kneed moron. Mulroney being the only exception since Confederation.

This country has been run by the French from day one.

I hang my head in shame.

Canada is now a U.S. Procetorate, like Costa Rica, Guam and Yap.

What a disgrace we have become, under French rule.

Prime Minister Paul Martin said Canada must be consulted before the U.S. decides to fire on missiles that enter Canadian airspace..

Hahahahahahahaha!

He's so funny... Did not know that our Prime Moonbat is a comedian.

So then our missiles, and the incoming threat they destroy, will land on Canuckistan.

When I have offered to extend my umbrella over a friend, in the rain, if they have refused it is only because they like the feeling of rain on their heads.

When the feeling of lethal exploded debris begins raining on the heads of Canuckistanis, no worry, they have free health care.

I want to say this very clearly so as not to offend my Canadian friends.

The government of Canuckistan, is not a friend of the US government or the US people. In fact I would say Canuckistan is the enemy of all US citizens. One day we will have to cut off trade with them, and by doing so, Canuckistan will be plunged into that squishy unworkable area known as the second world.

I imagine many Canuckistanis will then have to migrate to Europe. If you're a Canuckistani, have you considered moving south before the time when we have to close the border ?

#42 Rayra:

I meant if the missile were not intercepted because we weren't allowed to shoot it down...

(I actually work for a company that does research for the US Missile Defense Agency - we're working on computer software that's able to discriminate MIRVS from chaff in infrared imagery...)

Thank God that FOX News in no longer "outlawed" in the country. There is hope!

#7 Pamela:

Yeah, but we've got nothing good here now except some nice areas in which to live (IE the west coast, where I am), more moonbats than you can shake facts and logic at, and a lot of really cold places.

I've got it!

-Annex BC, take all the Pacific commerce!
-Annex Alberta, take the oil.
-Ignore Saskatchewan, like we do.
-Annex Manitoba for use as a colony to extract mosquitoes. A couple of those buggers in an al-Quaeda cave, and I guarantee you, they'll be begging to be released into the arms of 9-11 victims.
-Annex southern Ontario for its industry, use Toronto as a toxic waste dump.
-Ignore Quebec, use it for target practice. They couldn't be bothered to fight the Nazis...
-As for the maritimes... Annex the areas with oil, and ignore the rest. Like we do.

#7 Pamela

I wish we could do just that! Canadians gave us some pretty cool things like hockey and Lacrosse.

Curling!

#23: Midwest pundit: I'm glad Lee Majors is a conservative, but has he actually acted in anything during the past 25 years or so? (And please, nobody google up some bit part he may have had in a 1991 TV movie.)

I'm not trying to be snarky. It would just nice if someone who is currently very big would "come out" as a Republican.

Of course, that could very well hurt their career.

Fark.com's headline said it best:

Canada opts out of U.S. missile defense plan. Will stick with their existing moose-in-a-catapult plan.

#53 deadman

MY GOD PEOPLE, DONT YOU SEE WHATS HAPPENING?

Hockey season is cancelled and Canada pulls out of the Missile Defense System.

Coincedence?

I THINK NOT!

Martin declared the United States must seek permission before firing any missile over Canadian airspace.

Or, what? The RCMP will mount a cavalry charge into Detroit?

The only thing I think Canada could really threaten us with is rounding up all the liberals who ran there after the election and sending them back.

Way OT, but hey it's Friday

Steve Park just won the Craftsman Truck race in California. For those that follow NASCAR it is a nice story

#22 Zeppenwolf:

Where would you suggest? I'm born and bred west coast, and I hate the cold...

What about somewhere in Texas? On a coast? I'm seriously looking at just moving down there as soon as I can. Apparently, according to my friend, it's "treason" and makes her "feel like [she's] being used."

Or, what? The RCMP will mount a cavalry charge into Detroit?

LOL! Dudley Do-Right is here and he's pissed!

#52 Grumpy Tory Student

I wish Qubec wasn't so idioticly Euro. There are some very pretty areas along the St Laurence. I love Halifax and Novia Scotia beautiful areas there too. I wish the remainder of my family would get out of Iberville.

Off Topic:
Has anyone posted this? I hate posting bad news. But I thinks it important since its's not the usual car bomb stuff.

#62 It's Miss Donna V. to you

Yeah, but he is facing the wrong way.

Or, what? The RCMP will mount a cavalry charge into Detroit?

No, the Canadian Government may threaten to sent a tersly worded note to the U.N.

I guess that means Canada has changed status from a defense partner to a buffer.

24 Skippy 2/25/2005 07:34PM PST
I'm sure they figure -and rightly so - that the US would never let anything happen to canada...too close for comfort...so nice to be used and abused...time for a nice, clean divorce...canada ain't the canada i remember growing up...i'm sure now the second language in areas outside of quebec is English...

What can we say but O Canada!

Its a very simple process of thought as to why the left both here and abroad hate the idea of missile defense:

1. Western Civilization, paticularly when represented by its Anglo-American or Zionist forms (Judeo-Christian social values teamed with rigorous capitalism and an emphasis on the individual) is responsible for all of the evils of the world. Additionally, we create envy because our people are not starving, have the benifits of modern medicine, are not killing themselves in tribal wars, and enjoy a wide range of personal and economic freedom.

2. Nuclear weapons are the hallmark of a nation that has 'arrived' on the world stage. All of the big kids have them, so we have to too. Also, a nuclear deterent is the only fool-proof protection against Anglo-American/Zionist aggression/colonialism/cultural imperialism/humiliation/etc.

3. Poor nations spend huge amounts of resources developing said weapons and the means to deliver them (like North Korea shooting a missile over Japan a few years back). They swell with national pride over this milestone and can now threaten the West with either producing a bomb (North Korea) or using one (Iran).

4. The Anglo-Americans/Zionists have accumulated great amounts of capital through their exploitation of the Third World and have a professional class of scientists to work through the problem, which again are produced by an enlightened society and sustained by the 'mighty engine of profit' that society generates. The West constructs a missle shield to protect against a small number of warheads.

5. Third World nations, after spending billions of dollars in developing their missiles, now find that they are useless, as the West can destroy them with its own missiles while its cities remain unharmed. More Third World suffering/anguish/humiliation occurs as negotiating table bluster fails to extract concessions. The West has a hearty chuckle.

So in the end, the left hates the idea of missle defense because it violates a central tenet of leftist thought. It isn't fair.

Imagine how long the RCMP would last in Detroit.

Reminds me of that Monty Python skit where Sir Kenneth Clark fights with a professional boxer for the title of Oxford Professor of Fine Arts.

"The history of the English Renaissan- BLAM!"

FUCK CANUKISTAN!

#63 Pamela:

That's true... Of course, as pretty as those areas may be, the West Coast is where it (and all the Moonbats) is at...

Aside from Vancouver being voted the best city in the whole darned world, we've got the most beautiful areas I've ever seen in this darned country. And in Victoria, where I live, we've had the flowers in bloom for ... er, well, almost three weeks?

Most of our scientists are smart enough to know that Star Wars won't work; now the Canadian government is showing that they are smart enough to know that it won't work. Too bad our own government isn't that smart.

Of course, this doesn't change the threat to Canada one little bit. Why? Because IT WON'T WORK.

As far as our threat to launch our anti-missiles over Canada, I'd point out that we haven't been able to get them to take off at all in the last two attempts.

Or, what? The RCMP will mount a cavalry charge into Detroit

yea, a fat load of good that will do, a few dozen white boys on horseback, wearing red coats, galloping through Detroit. I give them 3 minutes...

#66 whiterasta

No, the Canadian Government may threaten to sent a tersly worded note to the U.N.

After thwarting a missile attack, that would be a real buzz kill. Please, please, don't let Kofi express "great displeasure" with our actions. NOT THAT!

If an incoming is spotted and IF we can do anything about it you can guarantee we will, agreements and diplomacy notwithstanding because its a matter of physics. You'll take the shot as soon as you can, and probably more than once in case you miss. Definately a case of begging forgiveness instead of asking permission.

I'm sure this decision is cost driven - they simply don't have the money to pay for it.

I for one won't blame a whole country for the fecklessness of their leader (After all we had Klinton for two terms). I pray upon hope that somewhere up there still beats the courage of those who assaulted Normandy with our grandfathers and sweated and froze in Asia with our fathers.

...".i'm sure now the second language in areas outside of quebec is English..."

That's where you are mistaken, my friend. The second language outside of Quebecistan is Arabic or Mandarin. I'd rather deal with the Mandarin speakers than the Arabic speakers.

Actually, having visited Detroit, I think the RCMP would be well-advised to conquer the surrounding suburbs of Grosse Pointe and wait for some military support. If the Grosse Pointers launch an organized insurgency, the RCMP might not be able to hold it. I can hear the battle cry of the Grosse Pointers decked out in their Abercrombie and Fitch right now: "Remember the War of 1812! Charge!" "Uh, what are you talking about? Was that Vietnam?" "Can we get some pop first?"

#56 Kragar

LOL!

The REAL reason the Canucks have abandoned us...

Just contrast Canukistan with Australia.

At this point I would demand we change our border controls with canukistan At this point all you need is a drivers lic or state or provicial i.d. card and since the canuks don't believe there is a terror threat and they allow thousands of muslims in as refuges. Since they don't seem to care about our security needs why should we care about there coming here to shop.

It is about time we sealled both borders. Demand that passports be needed to come here from now on.

#74 Bob Munck

Actually the success level is very good for a program of this complexity at this stage of development. There was another successful test of the sea launched component yesterday.

The press likes to report on "failures". Like the last one in which the test shot was aborted not because there was a problem with the interceptor but because there was a problem with the target launch. The logic was why shot a multi-million dollar interceptor test at a target that isn't working right anyway. Sounds like a reasonable decision to me.

Even if the USA is willing to let ICBM’s impact Canada, I strongly suspect that we would still be forced to intercept anything headed for southern Canada. Could we afford to take the risk it might be targeted on one of our northern cities? I certainly do not know how soon after launch and how accurately we can predict a missile’s impact point.

Seems to me that Canada would still get some protection from us on the cheap..... Sound familiar?

Its partly the Canadians, it partly the canadian government system. The United States has the best protection of individual freedom in the world. The Canadians didn't get it locked down.

Everything comes from that freedom:

Practice in evaluating risk.

Willing to take evaluated risk, because one can actually benefit from the outcome.

Practice in fighting power structures that would undermine freedom.

Relatively conservative, because one knows how to take of himself.

Compassionate to others, because we have all failed at times.

Holding on to belief in a higher power, because the elites have not programmed it out of us.

-------------------

G*d, I hope Bush gets to appoint a few SCOTUS Judges.

Whats the status on the SCOTUS eminant domain ruling? That could hurt us badly.

actually, they should take Seattle and be done with it, I'm sure we'd sign a treaty and let them keep it.

#73 Grumpy Tory Student

Havn't been to Vancouver since I was a teen. I'd like to vist againsometime. I hear there are some great resturants and night life up there.

...".i'm sure now the second language in areas outside of quebec is English..."

That's where you are mistaken, my friend. The second language outside of Quebecistan is Arabic or Mandarin. I'd rather deal with the Mandarin speakers than the Arabic speakers.

#79 Rayra,

Try this DND CF

I think that being able to say that we are in the "process" of having missle defence works for a deterent because then the enemy knows they will have to spend large sums of money just to keep up.....ya know?

84 T. Jefferson

We would have no choice. If for no other reason than US-Canada are the world's largest trading partners --- more commerce moves across the US-Canada border in a day than most of the world's borders in a year.

Besides, if you live next door to someone and see that they are about to be assaulted you don't stand back and do nothing because they didn't invite you to last week's barbecue.

#74 munck

An Aegis ABM blew a ballistic missile out of the sky yesterday during a test over the Pacific.

It works.

In Vancouver the second lang is chinese. Might even be getting close to the majority. Which might be a good thing since refuges from communist countries have a tendency to be anti-communist.

I wonder what the frogs will feel like when they are the third lang? But frankly I don't give a damn since the frogettes have a long history of anti-semitism.

#88 whiterasta 2/25/2005 08:16PM PST
That's exactly the point i was trying to make...there are so many middle easterners swarming throughout canada these days that you'd be hard pressed to hear English spoken on the street...

Wonder if Defence Minister Bill Graham is hopping mad at the PM. I seem to recall that during the Cuban Missile Crisis, the Canadian PM refused to go on military alert, but the Defence Minister did so anyway.
-----
Re Grosse Pointe - remember that these people can afford good weaponry. They may just be packed. You never know.

#62 - Miss Donna!

I understand your point about Lee Majors being a bit on the downslide- although, he did say he had been in a TV series in each of the last 4 decades-.... But...

You Must Not diminish the cool-ness of the "Bionic Man" He ruled! And if he had a better eye and pair of legs, he would still rule!

#74 Bob Munck writes:

Most of our scientists are smart enough to know that Star Wars won't work;

You're right - the original Star Wars; an impregnable shield against a full out Soviet strike - would never have worked. Computationally, an increase in number of missiles or decoys would require an exponential increase in computer processing power to handle interception. An attacker could always find a way to overwhelm the system. I'm not certain whether Reagan believed in Star Wars, or simply was a good poker player.

However, a launch of a single missile or a few missiles might well be intercepted - preventing hundreds of thousands, or even millions of deaths. It would also reduce the opportunity of a rogue regime (i.e. the NorKs) engaging in nuclear blackmail.

Well, their choice, of course, although I'm amazed at their short-sightedness.

It seems to me that many Canadians fail to realize that if it weren't for the US, the USSR would have eventually invaded them (via Alaska). They don't seem to understand that their freedom was, in fact, guaranteed by hard power in recent history.

And we in the USA are just a few percentage points away from a similar mindset. Only, the consequences of America going the Euro-left route would be disastrous for the whole world.

#74 Bob the Doubter

As far as our threat to launch our anti-missiles over Canada, I'd point out that we haven't been able to get them to take off at all in the last two attempts.

Prototype problems, buggy software. Happens all the time on new stuff.

Glad NASA didn't give up on the space program after they blew up the first rocket or two or 10. If they were like Bob, they'd have said "nope, satellites will never work, everybody go back home, nothin' to see here".

And shall we look at the early history of flight and the failures therein?

#94 yochanan 2/25/2005 08:20PM PST

I wonder what the frogs will feel like when they are the third lang? But frankly I don't give a damn since the frogettes have a long history of anti-semitism.

exactly...brings a smile to my face whenver i think of it...

Where is the drinking thread?

Canada slavishly follows the lead of France today so is no surprise.. when France builds a missle defense Canada will pay half the cost for them.. but till France sees a need for it they will sit on their butts and wait for Jock to scratch their backs.

Canada in WW2 had a lot of French-canadian son's die in war.. but not as many as you would think with the mother land occupied by Germany...most were soot suiter's attacking soldiers in uniform and blowing up mail boxes. If France gets what they want in Canada; a return of Quebec the rest of Canada can burn in hell as far as they care or join greater France.

Canada slides into Dhimmitude...

#79 Rayra

Still reading up on Canadian budgets, and finding reviews of a 'huge' expenditure / focus on "Security" in Dec '01. Imagine that. (and it was a whole 7.7 Billion).

Did I read that their defense budget was "almost" $12 billion this morning? I must have been wrong....our budget for education in Florida is $61 billion, and we don't even give the teachers tanks and automatic weapons.

#102 HillBillEE

For most of the night, the FNDT has been split between the barbecue over on the Rall thread and the Johnny Cash bash on the Keith Jarrett thread.

This is the hot chocolate thread - talkin' canuck, y'know.

74 Bob Munck

Well, you're a moron.

#98 Ajackson

You're right - the original Star Wars; an impregnable shield against a full out Soviet strike - would never have worked. Computationally, an increase in number of missiles or decoys would require an exponential increase in computer processing power to handle interception. An attacker could always find a way to overwhelm the system. I

Reagan may have recognized the exponential increase in computational power that the microchip represented before others did. He had access to military strategists and scientists, and, he had vision...

#105 Rayra

Me thinks the Bob troll is gone - or quietly lurking.

Nice smack, anyway.

The left's "it doesn't work" and "it costs too much" arguments always amuse me.

First off, its a technical problem and its amenable to a solution.

Second, I sure as hell wouldn't want to have be the one to tell the folks in San Diego or Chicago that we didn't build the system because "it costs too much."

And the cost of such a system is a tiny fraction of the economic damage from even a limited nuclear strike against us.

Besides, the left always acts as if the money is being shot into space or buried in a cave somewhere. Almost every dollar that gets spent on the program goes to pay engineers, technicians, machinists, truck drivers, secretaries, etc., that are involved in the design, construction, operation, maintenance, etc.

And the other famous argument is that it would be suicide for someone to launch missiles at us, we'd figure out where they came from and obliterate them. One the one hand with an anti-war liberal in the WH I'm not at all certain that we'd launch in retaliation. The flip side of that is look at the countries that might try such a stunt: Korea - what has Kim Jung what's-his-name got to lose, North Korea is a dungheap anyway. Iran - for the greater glory of Allah and his sidekick Muhammed; their calculus is quite a bit different than ours. It may not be safe to assume that the things that hold us back also hold back the other guy.

Build it.

#107 ronald

For most of the night, the FNDT has been split between the barbecue over on the Rall thread and the Johnny Cash bash on the Keith Jarrett thread.

This is the hot chocolate thread - talkin' canuck, y'know.

Damn, I didn't want to get involved on the barbecue debate because, well, there ain't no barbecue 'cept pork (okay, maybe lamb, too) but I didn't know there was a Johnny Cash bash goin' on.

I'm so confused...Am I in So. Cal or canada? Cold and hail..Moonbats everywhere...Boxer or Martin..no Ducks...no Canadians....
Have I entered the twilo zone?

#112

pork...

Let Canada wipe their own a$$e$.
After all,They make toilet paper for the Dollar General stores.

oh c'mon why should they bother?
I mean really.
They know no matter what insolent childish spoiled moves they make in the global chess game, that Big Daddy is going to protect them.
They know it and we know it..............why spend a red cent when you've got the best the military defense that money can buy for free, uh make that for free and scorn!
That errant child!.............

#83 JohnSteele

Actually the success level is very good for a program of this complexity at this stage of development.

Two decades and $150 billion? That's definitely the "throwing good money after bad" stage of development. I can't think of another program that's even reached that age and cost without being completed or canceled.

There was another successful test of the sea launched component yesterday.

You mean that Aegis boost-phase interception? I have a feeling that you don't know much about Aegis, and you certainly don't seem to know the extent of Canada's involvement in it. You have to bend a lot of definitions and do a lot of post-facto redefinition to consider Aegis sea-based BMD part of SDI.

(On a personal note, some of my software was part of that test.)

#112 Swamp Woman

Some guy asked about putting together a collection of rock-n-roll standards for his kid to enjoy. Mind you now - he's asking while most are discussing Jazz and Keith Jarrett, which Charles had playing.

I suggested the guy introduce his kid to Johnny Cash as a primer - sort of a foundational bit. Next thing we know, Charles is spinning Johnny Cash and ....

the whisky started flowin'.......

Chris the Prof
Fried Pork Ribs!

christheprofessor:

Reagan may have recognized the exponential increase in computational power that the microchip represented before others did. He had access to military strategists and scientists, and, he had vision...

No, that's not it, everyone in the industry knew about Moore's law. The trouble is that missile interception is in a computational class known as NP (Non-Polynomial time). An attacker using sufficient missiles, decoys, and counter-measures can overwhelm just about any tracking system. And for a sufficiently larger numbers of missiles and decoys, a small increase in incoming objects results in a massive increased requirement (hence NP) of processing power. For a large numbe of missiles, the advantage remains with the attacker.

I'm sure Ottawa will "let" us bail them out, kicking and screaming, when the time comes. Maybe they will even show gratitude for about 5 minutes. What do you expect from a country that can't spell defense anyway? Well, maybe Mexico will come around and show stellar support for this wild and crazy, zany, goofy idea of defending ourselves. They just might contingent upon our erasing our southern border.

#120 Reb Tex

You know what I meant..... :)

#115 Chris

Yep.

No!
I mean it!
It was dinner last night, here.

Bob Munck #74 - you picked the wrong time to say that missile defense won't work:

"Raytheon Standard Missile-3 Intercepts Target in Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense System Test
PACIFIC MISSILE RANGE FACILITY, KAUAI, Hawaii, Feb. 24, 2005 /PRNewswire/
-- The Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense (BMD) Weapon System and Standard Missile-3 (SM-3) destroyed a ballistic missile outside the earth's atmosphere during an Aegis BMD Program flight test over the Pacific Ocean."

[Link: www.prnewswire.com...]

Hey nextcube #50 - re: chaff; I like chuff - or balloons!

Here is a quote from a person at A Canada Forum

Bush represents a danger in a self interested sense as well. His tax policies are dangerous and could destroy my countries economy as well. He is a threat to the interventionist state as we know it.

Now, being a practicing flying monkey capitalist, I think that's a good thing, but obviously, the interventionist state is what this person wants, what many Euros want, and what they seem to be getting.

Shiver me timbers.

America's unprecedented economic prosperity is not the result of the richness of the American land, but rather of the economic policy that understood how best to take advantage of the opportunities that the land offers. American economic policy has always rejected-and still rejects today-any protection for inferiority and uncompetitiveness over efficiency and competitiveness. The success of this policy has been so great that one would believe the Americans would never change it. Ludwig von Mises (1926)

Obviously, we have a more interventionist angle now than then, but compared to Canada, we're robber barrons. Somehow, this economic thing, to me, it important. I think I smell a hint of daddy will take care of us here. Why should Canada worry - they think they are not a target (snickers), and the US already does most of the work in the defense field, since they've abrogated their missle defense and upkeep/modernization for years. We'll do all the work, so why should they help or pay (no offense, Canadian members - I know many Canadians don't feel this way, but it feels like a trend).

#120 Reb

No, no, no, NO! Fryin's what you do to the turkey on Thanksgiving Day. If you eat turkey. Which we generally don't unless it's deep fried or smoked.

#121 Ajackson

I don't disagree. I recognize your law. But, perhaps, Reagan had insight into the increased computational power available vie modern (in his day) chips. He may have thought that he could overcome them, via processing power and weaponry)...

Modern chips are how much faster than the 8088 etc chips of Reagan's time? He saw what was coming and what we were capable of...

Swamp Woman
You've gotta try it!
Wild hogs don't offer much rib meat, so you do the best you can.
Soak overnight
batter & fry in peanut oil
.
.
Makes great TV food!

118 Bob Munck

1. I never mentioned Canada's particitpation or lack there of in the Aegis component. There was another successful test.

2. I seriously doubt that there is any level of success that will make the left happy, even if we were knocking them out before the other guy finishes building them.

#125 Reb Tex

No!
I mean it!
It was dinner last night, here.

What were the sides with that, and did you make beer and onion gravy to go along with it (like I do when I fry pork chops?)

christheprofessor
ajackson
bob munck

I think all agree that SDI and BMD are completely separate arguments here. However, with respect to the attacker having an advantage, the argument assumes an attacker with the resources and sophistication to overwhelm and confuse our systems. Is that the case with North Korea? Or are we initially defending against a nutjob with a couple Chinese booster rockets and a nose full of radiated junk?

I ask out of ignorance in this subject - both political and scientific.

82-yochanan--yep, passports for Canadians to come to US and visas too. so we can really check them out and control their presence.
I have been reading the building of the Alaska- Canada highway story. It was 1700 miles long . built in early 40's as defense measure for both USA and Canada.
With thirties tools, these brave skilled men built a highway and bridges, the whole thing in about 8 months!. 1700 miles of rough hewn-out road. (parts were called the "corduroy" road because they put the trees down as 'pavement' until a later time).

With our skill and know-how we could fix the entire Can-USA border in very short time. A now mans land. A pair of tall fences, separated by a kill zone. Web-cams to patrol it.

If one of the missles we interdict is shot-down over Can territory, well, Can will take us to the 'World Court"!

Rice & skillet gravy

129 christheprofessor

I doubt that Reagan had much sense of the potential increase in computational power, or Moore's Law or anything like that. But I am confident that he understood that the Soviets were in no position to compete on an economic basis and that raising the ante put them in a box they could not extricate themselves from.

#118 Bob Munck  2/25/2005 08:38PM PST

I can't think of another program that's even reached that age and cost without being completed or canceled.

Social Security
HUD
The Department of Education
etc.

Are you also against these?

If not, Sod off.

JohnSteele

See my post #134 - your thoughts?

But the leader of the NDP said the only delusion is in the minds of people imagining scare scenarios of some potential missile attack.

"These are the kind of hypothetical questions that (George) Bush has tried to create in the minds of people to elevate a sense of fear.

"The fact is that if Canada is a part of a program like this, then we become a target."

Amazing. Truly amazing. Kind of like if, we give Germany the Sudetenland then we will have peace.

134 ronaldusmagnus

I think you have made several good points.

1. This is not the same program at the end of the day.

2. Defending against a massive launch of thousands of Soviet warheads is quite a bit different than defending against a few dozen.

#118 Bob Munck

Two decades and $150 billion? That's definitely the "throwing good money after bad" stage of development. I can't think of another program that's even reached that age and cost without being completed or canceled.

Good thing you weren't around when Edison was trying to make a lightbulb. And by your reasoning, Cancer and AIDS research should cease immediately, too.

Basically, you develop missile defense until it works or until you decide you'd rather have Kim Jong Il shove an ICBM up your backside.

O Canada, our home and native land...
...yada yada yada...
...We stand on guard for thee...

Arret! Arret! Stop dat right dere, Pierre. Take out dat part wit de standing on guard, eh. We don't do dat no more, tabarnac.

"It is the singular achievement of the present Canadian government to turn a country - whose armed forces once stormed an entire beach at Normandy and fielded one of the most heroic armies in wars for freedom - into a bastion of anti-Americanism without a military." - Victor Davis Hanson

141 T. Jefferson

My response to this would be "if the threat is a delusional fantasy how does getting involved in the countermeasure make you a target --- you just told me the threat wasn't real."

#138 John Steele

I think your assuming that Reagan had no comprehension of Moore's Law is insulting to him -- he was the president, after all.

He knew where and what the Soviets were, because Reagan studied history. He remembered history, and saw its toll...

#145 Malleus Dei

Ouch!

ronaldusmagnus:

I think all agree that SDI and BMD are completely separate arguments here. However, with respect to the attacker having an advantage, the argument assumes an attacker with the resources and sophistication to overwhelm and confuse our systems. Is that the case with North Korea? Or are we initially defending against a nutjob with a couple Chinese booster rockets and a nose full of radiated junk?,

Agreed, SDI and BMD are different animals. I was opposed to SDI not on principle, but on feasibility. Turns out that Reagan's military build-up bankrupted the Soviets, and SDI (without even being implemented) helped push them over the edge. I have no such technical objections (at least from a computation viewpoint) to BMD. Given the NorKs claim of possessing nukes, and their tests of long range missiles; I think it would be prudent to continue with BMD. And I bet the Japanese would be willing to kick in a few bucks to move things along.

I'm Canadian.

I'm ashamed of this decision, especially because all that was asked of us is to give moral support for this project (not cash, not research, no MX sites, or anything like that.)

How many of you know that on 9/11, the acting NORAD commander was Canadian? Yep, the Big Boss was away ( a USAF 4 star, if I'm not mistaken), so the deputy was in the chair, a Canadian Lt-General. The deputy NORAD commander for the Northen region (CANADA), headquartered in Winnipeg, is a Yank Brig-General by the way. Jest to let you know that NORAD-wise, we are a team.

I guess we've come a long way.

There is a silver lining.

First, it doesn't matter. Canada matters as much to missile defence as Luxemburg. Woulda been nice to have a friend buddy up, but I guess that ain't happening. It'll be something to remember when that cross-border beef trade comes up.

What sorta matter is that Canada actually increased its defence budget by 13 B over 5 years in Wed's budget. O.K. by American standards that is a joke. Canada's DND budget is 13B a year (not something I am proud of BTW). But For 20 years it's been shrinking, now it's going up. That is an unbelievable event for Canada, I never thought it would happen in my lifetime.

What you have to understand is that Canada's liberals now have a minority government, and the balance of power (assuming that the conservatives vote against every motion by the government, which is SOP) is in the NDP's hands.

These are hard-core left-wingnuts commies. Google Jack Layton, he's ten times worse than any Kennedy, Clinton, Carter or Kerry...

Anyway. Minority government means that any motion put forth by the government that is defeated results in a no-confidence vote in the house which means the government is kicked out and we get to vote again. The liberals don't want to lose power so they have to be everybody's bitch and suck cock. Hence the missile defence position, to flirt with the left. Meanwhile, they are more apt to allow the budget through, and leave the liberal in power this time out.

It's realpolitiks. The liberals never do the right thing. They only act for, and understand politics. Hold on to power. This is what a political party is supposed to do up here, they are souleless and without principles.

It is a sad day when even moral support is denied for a country which has been not only an allied, but a true friend for all these years.

The Liberals are having a big-time convention soon, and the Prime minister also wanted please the more left-leaning elements of this own party, which are knee-jerk anti-american. Google Carolyn Parrish. She's been kicked out, but she only has a bigger mouth than most of them.

Good luck with the war on terror, God bless the USA, the USAF, the USN, the US Army and the Marines. Just remember we ain't all bad up here, we just happened to lose OUR elections....

#143 Lightning_Man

As I've said, I wouldn't want to have to be the guy who has to tell Mrs Smith in Baltimore that it was simply too expensive to protect her son in San Diego.

#147 christheprofessor

Thank you Chris. :)

#24

Skippy, you are right.

Moonbat Canucks brag about "free health care", but they fail to mention the tax burden it costs. The health care cost is well-hidden. Defence or other budget are public and out in the open, but health care is automatic and never shows up unless you really dig for it.

I saw the numbers once and I remember that they are about 10 times what we spend on defence. I mean, doctors don't come cheap, and neither does all this equipment, just go and spend some time in a US hospital and you will understand when the bill comes.

But, as all things run by the government, it's broken. Lefty socialist experiment all end up the same way, ask any Russian. Rich folks here (and most government high mucky-mucks, like Bourassa), go to the USA to get quality care and jump the medicare queue when they get sick.

Public health is like a public toilet.

#106 Swamp Woman

Rats! And I was hoping for tanks and attack weapons to be delivered before school Monday. Maybe they would do the trick!

Fuck Canada, until they vote out the moonbats, they are doomed to fallout from intercepted missiles, if they were with us, that fallout would cascade into the ocean. Since you are against us it will cascade into your back yard. brilliant!

#118 Bob Munck 2/25/2005 08:38PM PST

I can't think of another program that's even reached that age and cost without being completed or canceled.

You should have stopped after three words.

The history of the world is filled with stories of incredible persistence in the face of adversity.

"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race." Calvin Coolidge

One tiny example, from biology/healthcare - Dr. Paul Erlich's magic bullet that provided the first possible relief for people with syphillis. He tried 606 times to get his first positive result.

146 John Steele:

Simply too logical. As you know moonbats are allergic to logic of any kind.

Re: 55 bob 2/25/2005 07:57PM PST

"Fark.com's headline said it best:

Canada opts out of U.S. missile defense plan. Will stick with their existing moose-in-a-catapult plan. "

A model for Canadian defense...

From The Wall Street Journal

_A Scud It's Not, But the Trebuchet Hurls a Mean Piano_
Giant Medieval War Machine Is Wowing British Farmers And Scaring the Sheep
By Glynn Mapes, Staff Reporter of the Wall Street Journal

See: asylum.apocalypse.org/pub/u/zonker/fpp/html/trebuc het.html

... Mr. Kennedy has been studying and writing about ancient engines of war since his days at Sandhurst, Britain's military academy, some 30 years ago. But what spurred him to build one was, as he puts it, ``my nutter cousin'' in Northumberland, who put together a pint-sized trebuchet for a county fair. The device hurled porcelain toilets soaked in gasoline and set afire. A local paper described the event under the headline ``Those Magnificent Men and Their Flaming Latrines.''

#137

Rice & skillet gravy

Yup, silly question, rice goes without sayin'.

#147 christheprofessor

I'm not trying to insult the memory of Reagan, but he was not a techno-geek. He had an exquisite understanding of history and an almost uncanny grasp of the Soviet Union. But I doubt he would see anything amiss in saying he didn't know much about Moore's Law or information theory or computing technology or even missile ballistics. He didn't have to, as you pointed out he was the President, not a software engineer :-)

Pennies, you mean the fabulous Canadian "moosle"?

I am a Canadian student who went out and demonstrated against Canada's possible involvement in American BMD.

It's called sovereignty. Canada does not have to go along with everything that the U.S.A. does, because we are a different country with different needs and interests.

I support this decision wholeheartedly.

ronaldus - SDI / BMDO / MDA are basically the same organization with changed names. JohnSteele (I don't mean to speak for you) makes a valid point that SDI envisioned some cool space-based stuff (i.e., Brilliant Pebbles, particle beams) and the current program relies on either sea-based (Aegis / SM3) or land-based (Ft Greeley AK interceptors, X-band radars, existing early warning radars).

We only have like 10-20 interceptors so we don't defend against Russia (or even China). You might fire multiple interceptors at a target so we are really defending against North Korea or Iran (or similar threats with limited capability). As has been mentioned, it's tough to figure out what to shoot at with hit-to-kill interceptors so we HOPE that they are not too sophisticated (decoys, etc.).

Munck #118 has a point in that sea-based and land-based BMD are different programs (funded through the same agency).
But, I wonder why he refers to the programs as SDI... that's like sooo 80's. And why doesn't he include Safeguard if he's counting BMD money.

164# you will be the first one bitching when your child is born with 4 heads because of fallout...........Dumb ass.

#166

Flipper babies from Nuclear fallout?

Take a deep breath, calm down, and then decide on policy. Hysterical fears don't make for rational thinking.

This is truly sad. The US and Canada used to be close friends.
Since Canada is also a democracy, they elected Mr. Martin and we (except for our beloved Canadian friends here at LGF) have to assume that he is speaking for the majority of Canadians.
As I said, we used to be close friends. Now we're just close.
Geographically.

#161 Rayra

Swampwoman, you were right / I'm wrong - that $12B stat is the totality of their defence budget (Holy Shit, Batman).

While I looooove hearin' those words "you were right/I'm wrong" and could listen to them ALL DAY, I truly hoped that I had overlooked something.

Dang. The air defense folk must be issued wrist rockets and ball bearings.

# 168,

Rational? What do I care? instead of the ocean being ours and your buffer, you will be our buffer. I could care less. your stupidity will be your un-doing. You think we will hesitate to call Martin if a missile is headed our way ? Hahahahahaha.

#164 Zaphod Beeblebrox

You are absolutely right, Canada is a sovereign nation and can act as it sees fit. That doesn't make it an intelligent decision, just your right.

On the otherhand, you can sleep comfortable in your decision because subconsciously you know that we are not going to abandon you. A missile fired at Toronto will be treated the same as if it were aimed at Chicago and the PM, and you, know it.

You can afford to take this attitude because you sleep every night safe under the same umbrella as do I.

#164 zaphod

I want to understand. You demonstrated against American BMD. Why, specifically? "We are sovereign" with different needs and interests is not an answer, particularly when NorK points a missile your way.

#109

I liked Reagan, but what I think he had is ethics.

Fundamentally, the government has no choice but to defend its citizens if there is a chance it can. That is the government's numero uno job, bar none. The Americans know this, while us Canadians believe the government's job is to provide cradle to grave anny state.

So what if the missile shield is only (for example) 50% effective. Or 10% effective. Or only works for 1-2 missiles? Is that a reason to give it up? Who's gonna say: "Yeah, sure, we got 20 million people nuked today, but only having a 305 chance of saving them just wasn't cost-effective..."

Any government working for its citizens has no choice but to go for missile defence if it has the technology. And in the states, in general, the people are the government.

#174 because going against the U.S is trendy and hip these days. Poor bastards are too clueless to see the potential ramifications.

Zaphod Beeblebrox:

I've spent a bit of time in Canada. Wonderful people, great cities, and the scenery takes your breath away. Were I a Canadian citizen, I'd consider my nation as well worth defending. Shame you don't feel the same way.

This thread is funny.

Cowardkerry - Let's keep the Canada-bashing down. I'm pissed off that Canada made this decision, also, but we shouldn't slander the entire nation because of it. However, you may slander zaphod beeblebrox all you like!

164 - zaphod

Actually, I hate to break this to you, but as far as security is concerned, Canada is not a sovereign nation with different interests and needs. To be sure, Canada is almost entirely dependent on the United States for security, and our interests and needs are almost identical. As others have pointed out, Canada is only able to feel smug about their rebelious actions because they exist under the same security umbrella as us. I suppose, though, as a student you find public financing of heroin addicts more vital than protection from intercontinental missiles.

#145

You are right... and it hurts.

174 ronaldusmagnus

I'll be interested to see if there is a rational response.

I am sometimes bewildered at the this attitude from Canadians. The interests of our two peoples interesect, actually more than intersect, our economies are inextricably entwined. So here we are with absolutely mutual interests and the Canadian left argues that they "don't have to subjugate their interests to the US."

Strange.

# 179......F.O.A.D you blew it. Get some balls and elect some patriots. Like I said, no skin off my nads, you guys will pay the price.

Let’s see if I got this right. A North Korean ICBM would not be a violation of Canada’s sovereignty but an American ABM would be.

Let's give zaphod an inch of slack. Clearly, some asshat prof has polluted his brain. Maybe we can save him, and turn his sorry butt around in time to save his country.

182 JohnSteele

Actually it isn't right to blame "Canadians" in thinking about it much the same is true of the American left.

Rayra and SwampWoman - that $12B - is that Canadian or US?!
I think a large part of the reason Canada's military, especially it's Navy and Air Force are so inferior (from lack of defense spending over decades by Canada, because Canada knew that the US would protect them and their interests.
Thank God for Australia and the UK (and, a little bit less assertively, Japan).
And just what does Paul Martin think he'll do if we tell them there are missiles coming at the US and we're going to shoot them down? Duck?

Canada's Hornets are excellent, but we all know that Canada is currently seriously messed up with certain aspects of their military equipment, and I feel for the Defence Minister. Janes just published an article speculating that Canada is trying to punch out of its weight class.

My all time favorite jet has to be the Russian Sukhoi series. If you want to be amazed, find some clips of an SU. They take your breath away.

If I'm not mistaken, it is still better, as far as the Canadians are concerned, to have a warhead broken into several pieces and land in Canada then to have it hit a city like Chicago and Detroit, where the fallout would then drift into Canada.

The chunks of warhead would be some combination of plutonium, uranium or thorium, but would generally be heavy, and settle quickly, in a limited and confined area.

Whereas a nuclear detonation would create all nature of fission products (unstable isotopes produced by the fission of the nuclear fuel), plus the burst of gamma and neutrons would irradiate the non-radioactive material in the bomb, plus whatever soil and the such were present if a ground burst. Of course, the explosion would also do an effective job dispersing the fallout extensively.

#161

You are right. I confirm. $13B Canadian a year for defence, less than 1% GDP, about on par with Luxemburg, second from last in NATO.

Not that I am proud of it BTW.

Cowardkerry -

I did elect a patriot. I voted for Bush. Have you failed to notice I'm an American citizen? Even so, being such doesn't mean I should sit back and let you irrationally talk shit about an entire country just because their leaders made a stupid move. I'm sure there are Canadians just as pissed off as you are about it.

I have never been drunk in the real Canada, although I did get drunk once in Montreal when I was stationed at NPTU Ballston Spa, NY.

mrs. ronaldusmagnus just gave me "the look" - and she looks good - hmmm.......
.
.
.
.
.
Farewell men.

187 realwest

I think Bush has put an end to any discussion about whether we will shoot to defend ourselves even it means firing over Canada.

Martin and company can talk all they want about Canadian airspace and sovereignty and being consulted --- thats for domestic political consumption. He knows it will be shoot first discuss later. No one on this side of the border is going to wait for approval from Ottawa while the warhead is on the way.

I agree with those who have noted that hyperbolic statements derogatory to Canada/Canadians are useless; I see some knee jerk reactions in such statements. Tisk tisk.

#193 ronaldusmagnus

Add an "and women" to that, and I might wave.

#191 you sound like a flip flopping liberal, make a fucking stand, my apologies for mis-iterpreting you.

I am fed up with irresponsible moonbats who prefer to die just so they can oppose anything American. You - specifically - ZB - and others like you form a majority in Canada. Canada is a moonbat country, which defines itself by "asserting its sovereignty" - in other words by not being like the US.
Canada has a chip on its shoulder. It's called: Envy.

Who the hell is infringing on your (and mine, by the way) so-called sovereignty?
What is wrong with you people?
You'd rather get hit by a missile than do anything remotely perceived as being in step with America? This is the attitude of a second-rate country, and I'm sorry to say, I'm living in it.

This is a sad day for me, I have not elected the Liberals, and I'm ashamed and disgusted by their decision.

Seriously, the only ones they are hurting are themselves. Cutting their nose off to spite their face. Who really gives a shit, other than the fact that they are obviously stupid...........

canada is now officially the glacis of fortress america--alert general montcalm

#203

I know, it just pisses me off the Canadian goverment doesn"t know on which side their proverbial bread is buttered. It pisses me off that they choose to go the euro-trash route.

Consider this scenario:

YOU are President of the USA. Things in NorKland are getting even grimmer (if that's possible). Lil Kim sends a message that he wants ten billion bucks, a years supply of oil, a years supply of rice, and a case of Hennessy. Or else he launches a missile and nukes Seattle. You send a message back that if he does, we will retaliate and remove NorKland from the map.

He responds, OK, same deal ... or he'll nuke Vancouver. He says we've got 24 hours. So, what do you do?

1) A Pre-emptive attack on NK - Europeans will condemn it, and the Chinese will get positively pissed off.
2) Threaten massive retaliation anyway. Will he believe that we'll defend Canada?
3) Call an emergency meeting of the UN Security Council.
4) Contact China and tell them to curb their dog.
5) Pay him off (though what will he demand next time).
6) Call his bluff.
7) Call up Paul Martin, and tell him - "Hey buddy, YOU got a problem ...".

#47 whiterasta said...

The main qualification to be PM of Canada is to be a weak kneed moron. Mulroney being the only exception since Confederation.

I have to disagree with this one... while I despise his politics, Trudeau was without a doubt the most ballsy PM we have had in decades. He didn't give a s*** what anyone thought, he just went ahead a did what HE thought was right (even though it rarely was).

Mulroney could be as much of a kissa** as the next guy, Trudeau NEVER was.

That said, I am losing hope we will ever have even a centrist government in Ottawa, let alone a right-of-centre one. For those who want to lump Ontario in with the hopelessly moonbat provinces, remember, we elected the Harris conservatives for two terms, so sometimes reason prevails here. As for McGuinty... WTF were my fellow Ontarians THINKING!?

Like I said, Canada does not matter in this defense shield business. Not one bit.

If the USA had to repulse a ballistic missile attack, do you think anybody would give a shit about whether Canada gave its OK about the interception?

What page do you think this story would be in the morning papers as opposed to, say, San Diego, LA and Pyongyang getting skragged the day before?

The Canadian Liberals needed to give the opposition (and their own moonbats) a candy to be able to pass this budget (heavy on Defence) and still stay in power.

Worry about what matters.

Too bad we lost yet again some more friends in the states with this shit.

#200 American Infidel said...

If you all think that Canadas relations with the United States are going to improve any time soon you are all in for a big disappointment...

IIRC 60+% of Canadian teenagers think America is evil...lol...The future is bleak for relations between our nations...

Hate to break it to ya AI, but 60+% of AMERICAN teenagers think America is evil. It is a hazard of youth to be cluelessy lefty. However, there is no question Canada is significantly left of the US as a whole.

#208

My sentiments exactly, what is puzzling is why? Are they willing to risk their security for an ignorant stand? If i lived In Canada I would be raising some major hell about now.

#209

Agreed...

One more nail in the coffin that will contain my Canadian citizenship soon enough.

I'm now getting fairly serious about following my fellow Canuck Mark Steyn to New Hampshire.

I "feel American" much more than Canadian. My ancestors 240 years ago were loyalists who left the Massachusetts colony for Nova Scotia. Big mistake. Time to come home again.

Canada is quite possibly the lamest country on earth.

#213 you are welcome here as long as they trade you for one of our miscreants on the left ;-)

#211

I know, very puzzling since the only thing asked was moral support. But politics here is mostly about spin and attitude, not about substance.

They will turn around and still support NORAD while you Yanks put the interceptors under Space command.

Smoke and mirrors and spin, everybody is happy, the left gets concessions and the liberals stay in power for another year or two.

Don't want to rub it in, but the USA does have a few examples of making myopic decision for the benefit of political expediency.

Like supporting the Saudis.

#213

I know how you feel, but Canada isn't that far gone yet. Try Somalia, Yemen, or just about any Muslim country...

213 Pro-Bush Canuck

Newt Gingrich used to have a line about New Hampshire. He liked to say that "the motto of New Hampshire is Live Free or Die, not Live Free or Whine About It."

Of course with all the Massachusetts liberals moving there because of the taxes it may not be long before the motto gets changed :-) Come to think about it, that's amusing in itself. The Massachusetts liberals, who think we all ought to pay more taxes, moving to NH for the low taxes :-)

I know it's not fair, but when I think of Pierre Trudeau, I think of Margaret Trudeau, and when I think of Margaret, I think of that photo of Margaret flashing her beaver at Studio 54. Consequently, I have trouble taking him seriously.

#215 dak 2/25/2005
I know, very puzzling since the only thing asked was moral support. But politics here is mostly about spin and attitude, not about substance.
...
Don't want to rub it in, but the USA does have a few examples of making myopic decision for the benefit of political expediency.

Like supporting the Saudis.

Well, no one's perfect :-)

And it looks like Bush is making some changes in the arena of expedient foreign policy. He's rattled the Saudi's chains a little of late and they may just be getting the message; they said that women might be allowed to vote in the near future.

#215

NOT Making excuses but when you are dealing with wolves you have to give concessions to the ones that aren't pissing on your rug at the time.

#219

Yessireebob. That is what Moonbats do not realize about Bush. He is breaking the rotten status-quo of the last 30 years in the middle east.

Who needs the Saudis now? Europe and Japan, that's who imports their oil.

Women and voting is secondary. What matters is the getting the Saudis to stop exporting Whahabbi religion and funding their terrrorism (which is the same).

Also, Iran and Syria are starting to sweat.

Way to go Bush!

So if the left in America wanted to leave to Canada after Bush got elected, what will happen to the left in Canada once they have a conservative government? The North Pole?

#222

British Columbia

# 222
We can only hope.................

#164 Zaphod Beeblebrox said...

I am a Canadian student who went out and demonstrated against Canada's possible involvement in American BMD.

It's called sovereignty. Canada does not have to go along with everything that the U.S.A. does, because we are a different country with different needs and interests.

You insult the memory of Douglas Adams by using that handle...

Only a pathetic student would think this has ANYTHING to do with sovereignty. How can it be a reliquishing of our sovereignty to cooperate with the development of a system that when developed and deployed, would provide effectively free protection from ballistic missiles? By acting in our own best interest we are not bending over and being the US's bitch, but wastes of educational space like you sure are to the Euroweenies.

Allright gotta go to bed. Hockey tomorrow. Nice talkin' to youse all.

Remember: Worry about what matters. Canada ain't going to mean beans one way or another in case of ballistic missile attack.

It will though, if we ever get the NHL going again.

Zaphod, you should take your own advice...

Good gravy, all you have to say appears to be "Sovreignty" this and "I support this" that. No facts or logic, no nothing, just a blind support for the Canadian government without a single thought as to what the result might just happen to be.

I know your type. I deal with people like you all the time, and I'm bloody sick of it. The gloves are off:

Get your head out of your ass and start talking logic, fact, all sorts of funny, crazy, and probably unfamiliar, things.

You're out east. I've lived there and seen how BC is regarded as a colony, to supply taxes to Ottawa at the latter's request. Guess what?

It may not matter to you, but given the curvature of the earth, the shortest distance for Norkie missiles to get to the sub pens and so-on is ... over BC. And guess what? It's not like a conventional bomb. Irradiated sh-- goes everywhere, and living a short ferry ride from one of the larger US navy bases around, I'm not too keen on being an experiment in the after-effects of creating a glass-floored, self-lighting parking lot.

You're what's wrong with Canada (and academia as a whole) today. You parrot left-wing propaganda and irrationality and call it being a "free thinker." After all, opposing authority and being left wing are just, you know, what smart people do. It's cool to be left wing and believe everything you hear, isn't it? If you're right wing and reason anything, you're just an "idiot" or a "moron" or whatever.

It doesn't matter how many countries have tried for the Trudeaupia you seek to perpetuate, and failed; some of them were in the top 5-10 richest in the world until they tried the model you want; you're convinced that somehow, it'll just work out. But that's a fact, and you don't like those. Instead, you hide behind inarguable relativism disguised as a "moral" question (the debate equivalent of using a human shield). If I argue that the homeless, should not be supplied with free internet, free libraries that come around to their particular corner on the street, things like that (as demanded by a Tornoto-area magazine), I'm obviously "waging a war on the poor."

Yeah, I know who you are. You're the type that carves an identity out by being "not American"... which means that you really like that whole Jean "my foreign policy is based on opposing the US" Chrétien line. Just give me one example of your culture, your day-to-day life, your behaviour, that makes you not American.

Three guesses:

"We're nicer."

"We're not gun nuts."

"We got health care" ... which gives every Canadian, regardless of ability to pay or severity of illness, the right to wait for weeks/months/years for a surgery that takes a couple of hours.

Give your head a shake. Start thinking for yourself, for one. That doesn't mean you have to ooh and ah at every single word of right wing opinion; it means you should be reasonable.

One last thing... if Canada's so much better than the US, then how come the US, with about 9x the population, is sending one immigrant to us for every five Canadians that move south?

[Link: louminatti.blogspot.com...]

The adjusted ratio is 1 American coming to Trudeaupia for every 45 Canadians moving to the greatest country in the world.

Don't give me nonsense about "brain drain" and "unpatriotic" and all the rest of it. I'm sick of the views of your side and the ignorance your side perpetuates, the ignorance that violates the very intelligence of the country.

For the record, I've got more achievements under my belt than you can shake a stick at. Call me an élitist if you think that'll explain it all, but the truth is much simpler.

I'm going to emigrate because Canada doesn't want me. The US does. And when the "best" of the Canadians leave, we'll laugh our asses off as we watch our former homeland collapse upon its rotten structure. And we will laugh.

Cattt: Margaret was just doing her part to promote Canada, which is famous for its beavers.

Pro-Bush Canuck: I would be glad to have you as a fellow citizen. Maybe if enough anti-idiotarians move to NH, they can offset the moonbat Bay Staters who are taking over the place!

we'll laugh our asses off as we watch our former homeland collapse upon its rotten structure. And we will laugh.

Sorry. The Department of Redundancy Department.

Mea Culpa.

# 227

Welcome....................I will buy the first beer.

#223 dak

I hope so. But they can also ferry all the to way ( but then this would also require American naval support, because the Canadian navy is in the shitters).

Anyway, it's a Friday night. Off to party. TOGA! TOGA!

I'm liking the country already :)

Why don't Canada and the US get together and initiate a citizen swap?

Conservative Canadians American P.E.S.T sufferers

PS : Jack Leyton's vote tally would be cut in half if he lays off the anti-American diatribes. That is why anti-Americanism is practically a cornerstone of his party's (NDP) platform. And yet, he has the fucking nerve of accusing Bush of being "hostile" towards other nations. The NDP is made up of a bunch of clueless assholes with a chip on their shoulders.

I meant all the way to France, which by then would be an Islamic fiefdom.

#221 dak

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

For those of you who want to see what Jack Layton looks like, here's the dingus on the left:

[Link: www.samesexmarriage.ca...]

He wants to be Prime Minister over a trillion-dollar economy.

All you need to know about Jack is that, during the election, all the candidates were portrayed as characters from The Wizard of Oz.

Jack was the Scarecrow.

Nuff said.

#218 Catttt said...

I know it's not fair, but when I think of Pierre Trudeau, I think of Margaret Trudeau, and when I think of Margaret, I think of that photo of Margaret flashing her beaver at Studio 54. Consequently, I have trouble taking him seriously

No, you are right, it is not fair... I practically worship RR, but if I based my opinion of him on the fact that his First Lady gave him advice about running the country based on horoscopes and tea leaves... well, you get the picture.

Besides, PET gave us plenty of reasons to ridicule him with his OWN decisions and actions, no need to let Maggie's actions do it for us. ;-)

I still stand by my contention though that he was the most ballsy PM we have had, at least in living memory. Unfortunately his legacy was the hopelessly flawed Charter of Rights and Freedoms... which today is being used to validate all sorts of abberant behaviour and coddle criminals... oh, and of course... Fuddle Duddle.

#209 MrGreen

"Hate to break it to ya AI, but 60+% of AMERICAN teenagers think America is evil. "

I seriously doubt that. Do you have a link?

237 mrgreen

Like I said, it's not fair. Pierre - Beaver. Pierre - Beaver. Can't help it. However, comparing Astrology with the PM's honey flashing her twat and playing around in public with semi-nude bus boys - just a wee bit different, imho.

As a proud Albertan but ashamed Canadian, you can imagine my response to this has been great anger!

Shame on Canada for turning into a gutless weasely country...

A country that is not willing to defend itself when it can afford to do so, no longer retains the right to be a Soveriegn nation!

America, for the Love of all that is Holy, please invade us....or at least the West...

And if one of those missiles is heading for Ottawa......please do not intercept it!

You can't imagine what it is living in a country that you HATE!

And being surrounded by a majority of people that havn't a DAMNED CLUE what the reality of the evil that we are facing....inside and out.....

As Ronald Reagan once said vis a vis the Democrat Party...'I didn't leave the democrat party, the democrat party left me'.........I say as a Canadian when I have moved to the States someday......'I didn't leave Canada........Canada left me'...........

Canada deserves all the ridicule in the world from you fine Yanks......I will gladly help pile on this gutless useless country!

#238 Trippin said...

#209 MrGreen

"Hate to break it to ya AI, but 60+% of AMERICAN teenagers think America is evil. "

I seriously doubt that. Do you have a link?

Conceded, I was clearly being hyperbolic here, but the point I was trying to make... poorly... is that judging Canadians based on High School student's opinion of the US is not a fair assessment. At that age citizens in both our countries are mostly leftists, I certainly was, and you don't have to look far on LGF (or DU or Kos) to realize that the rallying cry of leftists everywhere is "America is Evil". Hell, when I was that age I thought RR was the Devil incarnate (that was an exaggeration too ;-) ) and that PET was the coolest. Luckily I did something many of my compatriots never did... I grew up.

U.S. must not intrude on Canadian airspace: Martin

"I think the other important thing is the other affirmation of sovereignty is the very large defence budget, which is designed to protect our coast, borders and Arctic sovereignty and also make sure we can play a role in the world. That is also an affirmation of our sovereignty," he [Martin] said.

Arctic sovereignty? **sigh**

Some anti-missile defence Canadians will use this opportunity (that the US will shoot down missiles in Canadian airspace) to validate their opinion that Bush is a warmonger, but the fact of the matter is that EVERY future American president will do exactly the same thing.

And, frankly, if a missle was coming over the US headed for Toronto, and Canada had the capacity to shoot down the missile and the US did not, I can assure you Canada would have done it as well.

Once Bush's term is over, the Canadian left is going to have a hell of a fucking time finding someone to blame.

Unfortunately it's an uphill battle for us conservatives here in Canada. The media and especially the despicable state-run CBC News simply doubles as the propaganda arm of the Liberal Party.

I always chuckle when I hear fellow Canadians talk about our "free press". They've been brainwashed well.

"Canada is not a country." -Lucien Bouchard

Minority governments in Canada always bring out the worst brown-nosing amongst the political vote-collecters. They'll do anything to suck up one more vote, including pandering the anti-semitic anti-American French Canadians. Canada's ambassador to France is a good example:

[Link: www.canadafreepress.com...]

There's no way that Canadian-American cooperation can ever come from pandering to these morons. Their blind hatred blocks any notion of negotiating cooperation. From where comes this hostile and self-destructive surrender-monkey attitude amongst French-Canadians (and liberal Ontario)? Who knows - except that it's remarkably like their idols, the European French.

243 metapod

What the hell is PM Martin trying to prove? He's like a guy in tight pants with a tube sock in his codpiece.

Cheesh.

"The United States will decide when to fire missiles over Canadian airspace whether Canada likes it or not, says America's ambassador. The blunt warning from Paul Cellucci came minutes after Prime Minister Paul Martin announced yesterday that he will not sign on to the controversial U.S. missile defence program. "

Hell, yes. What are they gonna do--FIGHT about it? Congratulations, Canada, you just joined the Spitball League.

/spit

#54 Miss Donna

It would tank the career of anyone "coming out" as a Republican in Hollywood unless they're a huge wheel like Arnold.

They have a blacklist, the hypocrites, that makes Red Channels look like grade-school stuff. Informal, and therefore lethal.

Gee, if they attack us, what are they gonna use--harsh language?

LOLOLOLOL !

Impotent wankers.

#91 John Steele

Besides, if you live next door to someone and see that they are about to be assaulted you don't stand back and do nothing because they didn't invite you to last week's barbecue.

Really?

They wouldn't lift a finger to help us if we were under attack. Not with that turd Paul Martin in charge.

"Cultural illiteracy is the burden of a recent book titled What Do Our 17-Year-Olds Know? The book, co-authored by Diane Ravitch and Chester E. Finn, Jr., reports what has been learned from the first nation-wide academic assessment of American seventeen-year-olds. The national average of right answers for the history questions was 54.5 percent; the average for the literature questions was even lower, 51.8 percent. The authors point out that if we approach these percentages from the commonly accepted view that 60 percent is the line between passing and failing, American students are in deep trouble.

A few examples from the Ravitch and Finn book may help underscore how bad things really are. Take the matter of history, for example. An astonishing 31.9 percent of seventeen-year-olds do not know that Columbus discovered the New World before 1750. Almost 75 percent could not place Lincoln's presidency within the correct twenty-year span, and 43 percent did not know that World War I occurred during the first half of the twentieth century.

Things didn't get any better when the students surveyed in the Ravitch-Finn book were tested about geography. Almost one-third of them could not locate France on a map of Europe, while less than half could locate the state of New York on a map of the United States."

Source

And...

"A sample of NYU students, randomly selected by New York Times reporter John Tierney, were thoroughly stumped by the same quiz. An Economics major, for example, thought that Adam Smith was an American President. Another student guessed that the Civil War began in 1770."

The Stumper

This is another issue where Paul Martin is grandstanding for the left-wing vote (especially in Quebec, where the Liberals got railed in the last election.)

There's a pattern to this sort of thing: loud, public denial with lots of talk about ‘guarding Canadian sovereignty’ — and then some quiet cooperation behind the scenes, after the public's attention turns to other things. Ultimately, the Liberals want to play both sides.

Interestingly, the Northcom headquarters where BMD will be controlled is co-located with Cheyenne Mountain, the NORAD headquarters.

So Canada has probably half-signed on to missile defence. Better than nothing, I guess.

This is turning out to be a very interesting thread indeed.

First of all - we probably have the most immature prime minister that we ever had since Joe Clark.

Secondly - some of you Yanx may be tempted to compare us to the French. That would be considered an insult - to the French, who wouldn't hesitate reducing a country to sub-atomic particles with their force de frappe if a push were to come to a shove.

We, for the most part, are actually a complex lot. We conceal our inferiority complexes with loud rhetoric and delusional bravado. We claim to be so different from the Americans because, uh, we're not Americans.

Our military, being so small and underfunded, gets asked to do the impossible in such short order. We make do with obsolescent equipment and depend on the lagesse and generosity of our Allies. Sure, we get the job done right, but because we're so small, we can get burned out so easily. Ask an infanteer who's been to Bosnia 3, 6 times in such a short period of time.

Thirdly - because of Pierre Trudeau and his ilk running the country for good part of the 70's and 80's, we have become so used to the "benefits" of the welfare state. This, of course is called "bribery" under any other circumstances. Because we get bought out by the party in power, we keep electing these buggers almost every single election.

Even Brian Mulroney fell under the moonbat spell during his second term in office, implementing more taxes (see "GST") and reneging on some prime military purchases (remember the nuke subs that we thought we were going to get?). That's Trudeau's legacy.

Little Pauly Martin Poopypants is just another one in a line of post-Trudeau politicos that's trying to aim for immortality. And the true problem is that the Liberal/Federal government is trying to please everyone all at once. Since he now is in charge of a Minority Government, he is under pressure to get as many votes of support as possible. In the case of missile defence, he's not only pandering to the dreaded NDP but also to the equally dreaded Bloc Quebecois (the ones who wanted Quebec to seccede, FTWK). Sooner or later, Little Pauly will find out that he's a better Finance Minister than PM. Sadly, he would rather sell his soul than lose control.

As for the majority of Moonbat Canadians - they don't want a free ride from the US since no-one would want to attack a peace-loving progressive enlightened nation of loving sexy, polite, free thinking and toking and peaceful peoples of all backgrounds and sexual persuasions (remember - 14 is the age of consent here in this country, so we have less pedophiles here - YIPEE!) who have placed their trust, security and sovereignty in the protective arms of the United Nations and Kofi Annan.

As a Canadian trying to remain sane and sensible, I'm losing my cool. And while I'M PROUD TO BE CANADIAN, I am having serious doubts with those who have let themselves be so easily brainwashed by the hippies in power.

All I can hope for is this: the future will be American - the world will be America.

#227 Grumpy Tory Student

The next time someone brings up health care, ask them why socialized health systems avoid patient outcome statistics. The United States leads in actually curing people of potentially-fatal illnesses, and it's not close. There is a reason people from all over the world travel to the U.S. for treatment. Arafat went to France. He's dead.

All I can say is, don't blame those of us from the western provinces for this. We didn't elect the Liberal government--Ontario and Quebec did. The party that we voted for would have had Canada assisting in Iraq and Canada cooperating in the SDI.

Would we have this problem with Quebec? No. Why should the West (you know, the part of Canada, concievably in danger of a missile attack) be forced to abide by the decision of the Quebecois as they steal our tax dollers and control our goverment.

America: you have my explict permission and cooperation for missile defense of our beautiful North American continent.

If you caught what a previous poster said about invading the West... please! Christ Almighty! Please!

#255: But haven't you heard? In the US, only the extremely rich can afford health care, and all the poor get stuck with evil evil corporate HMO plans that only cover them for the basics and always leave them to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars when they get anything more severe than a broken arm!

Don't worry, I'm well-enough versed in this sort of thing. I've brought up those, and even compared to, say, other socialized systems, we're last. We spend more money per capita on health care than any other nation, and we get sub-standard results.

[Link: www.fraserinstitute.ca...]

I brought up your point, but I love to start small and obvious: why is it that, if the government is the only good way to run everything, why are there higher death rates in Canadian hospitals, and why do we have incredible waiting times? Even such right-wing, corporate tool-states such as SWEDEN allow for private intervention in health care.

On the other hand, if it goes this way, maybe we can send all the moonbat dictators over here for health care.

#256: Not quite. Ever seen an election map of Vancouver-Victoria?

[Link: www.elections.ca...]

Remember: Dark blue is your friend :)

I've done honours in Canadian Studies, my cousin was a Canadian Senator, and I came to the conclusion -- 34 years ago -- that Canada is an enemy.

First thing. Leave them out of the missile defense. Tell Crazy Kim that his missiles will get through if he just aims a little high.
Second thing, Abrograte the NAFTA.
Third, make them pay for dumping softwood lumber and a whole lotta crap.
Fourth, don't let them into the missile defense when they eventually ask to join -- without a hefty fee.

What Canada is doing is bad morally but makes perfect economic sense. Why pay for missle defense when United Stupids of America will build missle shield and will protect ungrateful America haters of the North at no cost to them.

It is a deal of century to canucs and they will be foolish to turn it down.

If Americans so stupid and deludes to defend and protect people who spit in their faces, there is nobody to blame.

Why do we subsidise defence of our enemies like France, Canada and Mexico?

Why millions from our enemy Mexico allowed to infiltrate our country?

Why we allow Chicoms sell junk to us and steal our technologies? Why hundreds thousands of chinese nationals loyal to the regime are allowed into this country to spy, to steal military and commercial technolgies and to form a fifth column?

We are fools and we are doomed.

#260, mik
you never heard of wal-mart, if we do what you say.

wal mart would have to shut down, and our taxed system would stop.
no more chinese shit in the garage.
no more yard sales,
dogs and cats sleeping together, mass hysteria.

/sar.

The decision has more to do with the fact that the government in power is a minority government that could easily be defeated. There will probably be an election within the next year or so and, if the Liberals win a majority, they'll quickly approve the missile defense. We have two moonbat parties in Canada, the New Democratic Party and the Parti Quebecois, neither will support missile defense.

Holy Canadian dhimmitude, Batman...eh?

Paul Martin will NOT be Prime Minister again and I and others like me will do everything in our power to see the Liberals out of power. This is the downside of a one-party takeover as could happen in America if the Democrats don't smarten up and get their act together. You could have the Republican party dominate for years. Right now that's not a bad thing but 15 years from now, will you feel the same way?

They HATE George Bush.

That trumps everything. Next on the list: Americans themselves and then the Jews. Although, Canada's Jewish community is so manipulated, they hate George Bush too.

mmm Feel the hate.

Seriously - the concentration of Marx-loving socialist-minded Jew-blaming, American-hating pompous half-wits in the area of French Canada, is dense.
Save for the small minority of those who are not Marx-adoring, Socialist-Narcissist, Jew-blaming America haters.

#91 John Steele

Two words: Kitty Genovese.

267 Steffan

That would never happen (the Kitty murder) in my neighborhood. My neighbors (including me) are too nosy for that. When anything happens, we dial 911 and then flock out to take part (catch thieves, etc., or simply make fun of them as they are led off by the cops) or watch (fires, etc.). Then we stand around for an hour rehashing everything.

Why pay for missle defense when United Stupids of America will build missle shield and will protect ungrateful America haters of the North at no cost to them.

What kind of English is that?

A Canadian's two cents:

If the US needs to intercept missiles over Canada we are all screwed because they are coming from Russia or China. Missiles from North Korea or the Middle East will not pass over Canada. Any missile attack from Russia or China will overwhelm any defence system that could be built (especially the non-functioning technology that exists today). If the Americans need to try to shoot missiles down over Canada they will do so but nobody will be around to complain afterwards.

The Canadian view is that MD is a ruse for the weaponization of space and the start of a new arms race. MD doesn't have much future as a defence strategy but has great promise as an offensive strategy:

[Link: www.inthesetimes.com...]

Canadians want no part of this nor are we even needed. Canadian cooperation is just wanted for spin and we would prefer not to put our stamp of approval on it.

Reiterating a call of the wild once heard over the crackle of a Goose-Bay fire back in the summer of naught-three, there is nothing more fun than pissing off American's. That night, as the hockey players, curlers, Beavers and Mounties in Red Serge gathered around the wompom and chanted hallowed refrains to the beautiful New Founde Lande, one voice could be heard in the clamour..."what fun it is to piss off Americans".

While events after 911 may have stripped every American soul of what it is they believed in and left each of you stripped bare, naked before your leader's will, Canadians, in the cold, cold North have reluctantly witnessed the shame of your nakedness. The trauma of 9/11 has so unhinged the American public that far too many have forgotten who they are and what they once stood for.

It has been said that you once stood for a chippy kind of individualism subsumed into a robust, if occasionally maddeningly corrupt, democracy. Hunter S. Thompson who left us last week embodied that view to the last.

He and the rest of you louts may had a wonderful youth, yes? But the weariness endures and now you have grown saggy and frail in your later years and inevitably been led to constantly miss the point, or worse, purposefully allow deception, torture, imprisonment, denial of habeus corpus and plain murder.

You have lapsed into a sense of false wisdom that perpetually forgots to pay attention to its heart, for when you did listen, your hearts were, more often than not, in the right place.

Americans ask: Wouldn't you have done the same if Toronto had been attacked? And perhaps we would have. That, however, would not have made it right.

Its hard to say this: but your all really quite nuts. We want to disengage from you. Don't you get it?

Most Canadians have American friends. A considerable number have American relatives. In spite of all the talk in fashionable circles about Canada's deplorable anti-Americanism, I suspect few here wish the U.S. ill.

But sometimes, when your friends go nuts, you have to quietly but politely draw back. Advise them to seek professional help; offer any practical assistance you can.

And, if they won't listen, then advice others to pull out of supporting the insanity -- withdraw from investments in the US dollar, the last prop-- and watch the nation crumble under its enormously bloated and naked self. Pity the fool.

#47 whiterasta
My bad.
Sorry, Canada. You've elected a weak-kneed moron again.

Sod, off swampy, eh?

271

Sod off, moosey.

Jinx, BabbaZee. :)

It took almost no time at all to find this nutty opinion piece in the Toronto Star.

Problem isn't the missiles — it's Bush

Missiles designed to kill millions of people: Not a Problem!
President who wants to shoot down missiles: Big Problem!

I know I'm looking at the Canadian red throated moonbat. But I can't tell him apart from the American coastal moonbat.

#275 Catttt
LOL!

#271 moose

The trauma of 9/11 has so unhinged the American public that far too many have forgotten who they are and what they once stood for.

Quite the contrary. You're just a coward, moose.

#271 Moose

telling the truth will get you nowhere here

Actually Moose captures exactly how I feel. Americans have done great things and the ones I know are great people. However, we will have to wait for the 9/11 madness to die down before we can deal with them again.

Best of luck in your War on Terra

I'll trade all the liberty-loving Canadians, Mexicans, European, etc. for just half of our leftist liberals. Name the day.

Sometimes it seems like we're going to be the only ones left to stand for freedom.

owl

I am a Canadian student who went out and demonstrated against Canada's possible involvement in American BMD.

It's called sovereignty. Canada does not have to go along with everything that the U.S.A. does, because we are a different country with different needs and interests.

I support this decision wholeheartedly.

Similarly, after today I support the decision to stop the missile shield at the US-Canadian border.

Further, let Canada defend its "sovereignty" from now on with its two submarines -- you can put one on each coast. 

In the event those two subs prove inadequate for your defense, well you're a "sovereign" nation, so you should be OK.  In fact, tell that to the invading army: "What are you doing, we're a sovereign nation!"

It's sad to see that some Canadian "students" have not learned anything.
 

They HATE George Bush.

They hated Reagan too.  All they want is "Peace In Our Time".

It's amazing how people never learn, and fail to realize the reasons they enjoy peace and security today.
 

If you click on Thomas Walkom's name on the webpage posted by Jax you get a list of Walkom's other fine editorials.

One is about Jeremy Hinzman, the American war deserter who fled to Canada when the going got tough.

Deserter Poses A Problem

Which brings to mind another war in which Americans fled to Canada. Which makes one wonder what all those who fled at a time of convenience are doing now in Canada with voting. Do draft dodgers and deserters living in Canada have the right to vote in Canada?