LGF

-RetweetThe Radical Left's Cause du Jour

Sat, Mar 5, 2005 at 1:32:14 pm PST

The cause du jour of the left is anti-American communist (that’s not a judgment call; she works for an anti-American, communist newspaper) Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena, who is now apparently going to claim that US troops fired on her speeding vehicle for no reason other than malicious bloodlust: Hostage recalls ‘hail of gunfire’.

Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena has described how she came under a “hail of gunfire” moments after being released from her Iraqi abductors in Baghdad.

“I was especially shocked because we thought that by then the danger was past,” she told Italy’s Rai radio. Ms Sgrena, who was wounded in the incident, has been sent to a military hospital in Rome for an operation. She denied US military accounts that the car was speeding past a checkpoint when it was fired upon.

US President George W Bush has pledged to fully investigate the shooting, in which a senior Italian security agent, Nicola Calipari, died.

Ms Sgrena was abducted on 4 February. It is unclear how she was released. Some Italian press reports say a ransom was paid.

Italy’s Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, one of President Bush’s staunchest allies, has demanded to know why US troops fired on the car carrying Ms Sgrena to safety.

“There was suddenly this shooting, we were hit by a hail of gunfire, and I was speaking with Nicola, who was telling me about what had been happening in Italy in the meantime, when he leaned towards me, probably also to protect me,” Ms Sgrena told Rai radio.

“And then he collapsed and I realised that he was dead.”

She said the shooting continued “because the driver wasn’t even managing to explain that we were Italian. So, it was a really terrible thing.”

Asked if the car was going too fast when the US troops opened fire, she said: “We weren’t going particularly fast given that type of situation.”

The details of this situation have been described in so many different ways that it’s very difficult to get a clear picture of what happened—and mainstream media has predictably ignored Sgrena’s radical anti-war background. But the story has had a lot of wrong notes and strange coincidences from the very beginning; Rusty Shackleford suggests the entire kidnapping may have been staged. I’d need more evidence before I could agree with that, but in the shooting incident I’m much more inclined to take the word of US troops than an Italian anti-war journalist.

The inmates of Democratic Underground are beside themselves with glee, of course, accusing our soldiers of murder with no evidence. (But don’t forget, they support the troops!)

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107 comments

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1 Golden Jerusalem  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 11:33:35am

Commie cow!

2 Dov  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 11:34:37am

They have lost it, and our troops stopped the vehicle racing towards the checkpoint dangerously NUFF SAID

3 Golden Jerusalem  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 11:35:02am

Whoopee.

We were talkin' bout this on the previous thread...

She's the feminist with a passionate "interest" in islam...

Oh yeah, and she speaks Arabic.

4 susanita  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 11:35:21am

I can't wait till the facts come out. Once again the anti-soldier crowd will be exposed - expecting the worst from US troops.

5 Mr Pol  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 11:35:49am

Rusty's right. Staged.

6 Norwegian kafir  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 11:36:03am

These are the people who complain about how much racism and "Islamophobia" they face in the West. Hypocrisy, thy name is Islam:

"Dutch" Muslims Happy to Take Organs But Not Give

Health Minister Hoogervorst wants to give priority on transplantation waiting lists to people who are registered as donors, but MPs slammed the proposal on claims it will introduce discrimination in healthcare.

The Liberal VVD minister defended his proposal by pointing out that Muslims often refuse to donate organs based on religious beliefs. This is despite the fact they are willing to receive an organ if they are ill. "That creates a bad feeling," he said.

"If you say: 'I refuse to donate an organ because of my religion, but I don't want to receive one either', than I will respect it. But I won't respect a one-sided attitude of receiving and not giving. I find that
problematic," Hoogervorst said.

After the parliamentary debate on organ donation, the minister said it is not just a few Muslims who refuse to give and whom are willing to receive an organ donation. It is instead a substantial group.

7 Ackomanyuki  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 11:37:10am
“We weren’t going particularly fast given that type of situation.”

A subjective opinion.

Anyone here ever driven in Rome? Or should I ask, any survivors care to comment on Italian motoring mores?

8 Mr Pol  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 11:37:36am

#6 Norwegian kafir

Ah, yes, the famous ROPer social program: 'Gimme!'

9 Ayatollah Ghilmeini  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 11:38:54am

OT but right next door, Assad bussed in a bunch of supporters, their chanting was excellent:

The protesters also chanted, "One, one, one, Syria and Lebanon are one" and "Bush, Bush, listen, the Syrian people will not bow."

"Killing and destruction represent America's democracy in Afghanistan and Iraq," one placard read.

Yeah. they'll out voluntarily. Sure.

10 Golden Jerusalem  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 11:39:19am

The truth will come out.

Expect the MSM to be thoroughly discredited, once again, for the way they've reported on this so far...

They ain't askin' the right questions, see?

Anyways, I'll be off now.

As always, a pleasure. G'nite, all!

11 mossley  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 11:40:21am

Guess Jordan Eason will be making a comeback on the talking head shows after this. Glad I don't watch them.

12 mich-again  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 11:41:31am

She was in Iraq writing a story that was to tell of the horrible US actions in Fallujah and how it caused so much suffering in that quaint little town. No axe to grind there...

There are actually Left wing nut jobs out there who are proposing that her kidnappers were actually Pentagon operatives whose actions are intended to give the "resistance" a bad name.

13 Globular Cluster  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 11:42:04am

1. Evidently the driver missed or ignored a checkpoint, which if true, justifies the shooting. Can't have Marines and Iraqi Police getting car bombed.

2. Some journalists are going to get killed in any conflict that is intesively covered.

3. It is disgusting how the media don't interview each of the 115 people killed last week from terror, but let one pathetic journalist take a bullet and the frenzy begins.

14 Hari Seldon  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 11:43:24am

yea I do wonder why it is these anti-war peoel get kidnappes and alaways come back praising their captors. while most people kidnapped dont come back at all,..::wonders...::

15 Pro-Bush Canuck  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 11:44:24am

How difficult would it be to have video records at each of these checkpoints? Since this war is as much against a domestic fifth column as it is against Islamists, it seems that it would be good insurance to tape everything.

16 Bad Mushrooms  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 11:46:17am

Her "companion" says that he believes that it was an "ambush". He went on to say that "This is huge". Interestingly, She kept saying her health was in jeopardy on tape but the hospital says she is fine except for the shoulder wound. She also is quoted as saying the checkpoint did not fire on her but other soldiers did after "shining lights in their direction" and of course the shots were "sprayed" into the car.
Mmmm I kinda think their driver screwed up in a big way; 8:30 PM on the airport road at high speed toward a checkpoint even after lights were shining "in their direction"?

17 manker  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 11:48:03am

#9 Ayatollah Ghilmeini 3/5/2005 01:38PM PST

The protesters also chanted, "One, one, one, Syria and Lebanon are one"

Ah yes, the expansionist syrian dream of "greater syria". lebanon is the cash cow, jordan is the place to roam, and Israel is the beach house.

and "Bush, Bush, listen, the Syrian people will not bow."

Fine by me, I'd rather see them running for their lives when the sky darkens with F-16's

18 CrusaderGirl  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 11:49:31am

#9, Mr Ayatollah:

OT but right next door, Assad bussed in a bunch of supporters, their chanting was excellent:

The protesters also chanted, "One, one, one, Syria and Lebanon are one" and "Bush, Bush, listen, the Syrian people will not bow."

"Killing and destruction represent America's democracy in Afghanistan and Iraq," one placard read.

sounds like the protestors at GWB's social security reform rally.

BTW:

Did everyone see the supposed new images of Zarqawi? They're over at CNN.

Talk about a grinning locus of evil.

19 sven10077  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 11:49:51am

Well you have to understand fellas...the soldiers/marines should have used their ESP to know she had "just been released" and was having her "Martha Stewart running the stop sign" moment...

//l3 mode

20 ted  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 11:50:14am

Sgrena is a facist,commie jihadist sucking whore who im sure voluntarily pleasured her mujadeen handlers.. this POS was in Iraq for no good reason other then to glorify mass psychotic killers and in any way make it easier for them to murder American soldiers...Shes worthless garbage ..

21 justdanny  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 11:51:02am

From my perspective, knowing the story told by out soldiers who fired on the car is true, I can only find one thing troubling about this story. That she lived.

I want all unidentified vehicles that blow through checkpints or speed toward them without slowing for warning shots, turned into swiss cheese. Period.

22 Suzanne k  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 11:52:59am

Car driving fast towards a checkpoint?

She's surprised at the outcome?

PULLLEASE

23 He's dead, Jim  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 11:53:46am

Concur, Charles...something smells funny, and this is not the first time I've had my doubts about a kindapping in Iraq...

Is anyone doing any research on what the output of the Anti-American journalists in Iraq and Afghanistan have been putting out based upon their reporting? I wonder if there are discernable trends/themes that might indicate a centralized propaganda effort.

24 jlfintx  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 11:53:53am

Does anyone doubt that if the soldiers had true bloodlust, they had the complete means and and opportunity to finish her off?

25 Hari Seldon  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 11:53:59am

seems like a semi-sane DUer (blue to the bone) is trying to tell the tin-foil heads to wait and see waht the investgation says before..ya know...blaming our troops. for which he has been accused of being a republican and other such "insults" poor guy

26 ted  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 11:55:33am

21 Well said...i agree 100% When i heard on the news it was her...i prayed that they nailed her good

27 manker  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 11:55:49am

This is just like that case of a marine who went into the building and killed a terrorists playing dead.

The media is just trying to soil the good name of the soldiers fighting and helping Iraq rebuild.

This is just another case of reactionary left, they hate Bush so much so they have to oppose everything he supports. Since he supports the troops, they have to tarnish the hero's just to make Bush look bad. It's enough to make you want to vomit.

28 Walpurgis Knight  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 11:56:54am

As soon as I heard about the shooting I suspected something fishy. Her anti-war background, her mysterious abduction, the peacenik pleadings in her kidnapping-tapes that sounded like her normal writings, and now this.

I believe that she hoped US troops would fire on her car and ergo instructed the driver not to slow down at the checkpoint. I do not believe she wanted anyone to get hurt and certainly not die, but she did not count on the efficiency of our soldiers. This was supposed to be a "gotcha" anti-war talking point, not a grisly tragedy. Of course, she will probably use the death to further her cause--attribute it to excellent improvisation skills.

I hope I'm mistaken, but this story seems somehow "wrong."

29 Dov  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 11:58:29am

I hate to ask this but is her middle name "Rachel" This entire scenario is way out of line and sure looks staged !

30 Hari Seldon  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 11:58:49am

#20 ted

why don't you tell us what you really feel lol

31 BXEKLT  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 11:59:13am

gunfire in beirut...

32 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 11:59:20am

OT Good News:

Qualifying is over at Autodromo Hermano Rodriguez for the Busch Grand National "Motorola Telcel Mexico 200 presentada por Banamex" and the Telmex Ford driven by Mexican hottie Mara Reyes has made the field.

I don't know what happened to favorite Adrian Fernandez in the Hendricks Motorsports #5 Lowes Home Improvement Chevrolet Monte Carlo, he doesn't have a qualifying time, and starts near the rear of the field based on last years points. (The #5 car was driven by Kyle Busch last year and was 2nd in BGN points). Did he suffer a mechanical failure, or drive off course, or what?

33 manker  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 12:00:06pm

#28 Walpurgis Knight,

Well I wouldn't be surprised if it was staged, it could be like that faked car bomb. Hell even a soldier in Iraq said it looked fake.

Also considering the fact that ultra-leftists are known to work with terrorists (ISM), it wouldn't be a surprise at all.

Also the terrorists need all the publicity they can after the elections.

34 Bad Mushrooms  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 12:00:59pm

Actually, come to think of it, try the same thing in Italy and you'd be dead too. Italian cops carry automatic weapons or did last time I was there.


Very very sad about the Italian SS agent. What a waste. I wish I could give my respects to his family. Europe can't afford to lose honorable men; there are so few left there it seems.

35 justdanny  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 12:03:01pm

#27 manker
"The media is just trying to soil the good name of the soldiers fighting and helping Iraq rebuild."

The MSM do not view our soldiers as human beings. They view the terrorists as human beings. They view the dictators and supporters of dictators and terrorists as human beings. But not our soldiers. To them our soldiers are the fingers of President Bush. They can do no right. All accidents are purposeful. All accomplishments are accidental. President Bush is portrayed as evil incarnate by the MSM, and our soldiers, the greatest citizens our country can ever produce, are his blind blood thirsty minions.

To the MSM I say, your day is coming. A day when your hallucinations become real.

36 Robert Crawford  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 12:03:11pm
This was supposed to be a "gotcha" anti-war talking point, not a grisly tragedy.

Are you sure about that? I'm not.

Who was driving the car? What's their background? Why didn't they stop? Why weren't they aware of the roadblock -- considering we hear constantly about them?

I have no doubt that whenever no one's looking Sgrena's got a smug little smile on her face, knowing she's served her masters well.

37 hornet  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 12:03:25pm

Any photos of this Giuliana? She reminds me of saint Rachel (ex) of bulldozer fame. Preferably burning the Stars and Stripes she loves so well.

38 Free Speech Is Only For über-Libs  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 12:03:59pm

It's Karl Rove again . See, Karl (The all-knowing conspiratorial king/god-head) planted the anti-American commie actor, and just when the left falls for the story - he's going to pull the rug out and reveal that it was a oil-spy who wanted to test the new
tweel.

Too crazy? Not for DU.

39 BenJeremy  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 12:04:42pm

Yeah, I mentioned the likelyhood of the kidnapping being faked over at Fark, and one of the more liberal posters got enraged at my comment.

Like the Japanese hostages that were shunned upon their return to their homeland when it became apparent their abductions were staged, this "reporter" did the same.

She compounded the situation by taking a run at a checkpoint... probably to have this exact situation happen.


If her kidnapping was staged, and they intentionally drove at the checkpoint, then it is indeed a true shame that she was not killed. Worst case, she should be thankful she's alive and chalk this up to a simple matter of practical security measures and a grave mistake on her driver's part.

40 Captain Hate  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 12:05:42pm

She should be thanking her lucky stars that she wasn't totally shredded instead of mouthing off that she's an effing victim. Give her a POS Fiat and tell her to STFU and go away.

41 waterboy  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 12:06:58pm

THe following is a comment from a "TankLV," Comment #81 of the DU thread.

"Al-Jazeera has one of the highest reliability factors

More than almost any other media outlet.

Don't believe me - look at their stories and compare.

At least their more reliable than ANY US media.

Al Jazeera was formed by former BBC "JOURNALIST" - not talking heads like we have - who wanted to form a middle eastern based news agency.

NONE of these JOURNALISTS has EVER been found to speak anything other than the TRUTH.

Wish our media whores could stand up to their caliber."

42 Orson Buggy  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 12:07:08pm

t least one DU poster gets it:

[You people who hate our troops make me want to puke. Sure, there are some bad apples in the 150,000 that are there. Any group of 150,000 people has some bad apples.

Accusing our troops of murder without proof, and believing every negative or wild-ass conspiracy story about them is just one of the reasons why the other side controls the White House, the Senate, the Congress, the Supreme Court and God-only-knows what else.

We're marginalizing ourselves with our own paranoia.]

43 Terrye  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 12:08:45pm

I have to admit I don't understand why a 56 year old Italian communist woman is running around in a war zone in the first place.

I don't know or understand the circumstances of her abduction...were there witinesses?

I don't really know who took her hostage or why, it seems the names of the groups changed often.

No one seems to know where she was held or why she was ever released at all.


They could always destroy the vehicle and her with it, but instead she returns home safe and sound to trash Americans with her commi friends. So why call it an ambush?

Why did they run the checkpoint?

Why were they trying to sneak out of the country?

It all seems strange to me. Either the driver screwed up or the soldiers shot them for no reason...given the fact they let them live, why would they do that?

I smell a rat.

44 BenJeremy  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 12:08:59pm

Come to think of it... what if the Italian SS agent was the only one not in cahoots with the terrorists?

The soldiers maybe never hit the guy... maybe (this is only a wild stab at a theory here), just maybe she put a bullet into the guy during the shooting to insure there was at least on "victim" of the incident to express outrage - what better "victim" than an agent who probably disagreed with her politically?

I assume the Iraqi driver was uninjured and she had a minor flesh wound, but the agent was mortally wounded? WTF? Something very suspicious here.

45 salt1907  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 12:09:25pm
46 cardiacmont  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 12:09:52pm

Who to believe? That commie bitch or U.S. soldiers, who could very well be my nephew or second cousin or the young man from two houses down.

If you have a hard time answering that question get the hell out of my country.

47 AngryDumbo  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 12:16:36pm

Communists and Jihadis. Unholy alliance, indeed.

48 Nonnie  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 12:17:55pm

A coupla common sense questions:

1. If you were driving a car AT NIGHT in a KNOWN HOT ZONE and you were approaching a checkpoint (which presumably, if you'd been in country more than five minutes, you'd encoutered previously), wouldn't you SLOW DOWN, knowing that the ONLY alternative was the Swiss Cheese Option?

2. How much would an avowed feminist have to hate the West to side with militant Islamists against it? For that level of hate is the only thing that would explain why a feminst would reject the liberal (in the correct sense of the word) culture of her ancestors. Somebody should force her to watch Submission and get an eyeful of just how much the ROP values women.

I'll never understand this willful blindness.

49 Walpurgis Knight  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 12:20:12pm

# 36 Robert Crawford
Maybe you're right. Maybe a death was in the works all along, to lend more horror to the story. I don't have a clue what is the truth, the investigation is forthcoming. If the reporter really is a Commie, then 1 death will have been nothing in her eyes as she was pursuing the Cause.

Then again, maybe it really was a misunderstanding. I don't know. But going on my suspicions, I would have to say (along with most of us here) that there is more to this story that is currently known.

50 addison  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 12:21:40pm

Again we see this theme of the incompetent and all-powerful, bloodthirsty US military. They are unstoppable, trigger happy, and remorseless and are simultaneously incapable of killing a middle-aged woman in a car who has no ability to defend herself from said bloodthirsty warmongers in command of thousands of 5.56mm rounds and Bradley armored vehicles...

51 missouri boy  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 12:21:55pm

#44

Wow...I like the way you think!

Moboy

52 ibmkeyboard  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 12:23:02pm

#36 robert
Who was driving the car? What's their background? Why didn't they stop? Why weren't they aware of the roadblock -- considering we hear constantly about them?
I have no doubt that whenever no one's looking Sgrena's got a smug little smile on her face, knowing she's served her masters well.


they drove fast into a road block? sand bagged road blocks mean stop. stop now, or die.
we always had 50 cal. and m60s set up. usually guarded by s vietnamese, if you even got to the block, everyone would be dead.
my question is why are these people still alive?
sgrena had a lucky day, men and women of the armed forces should not allow this to happen. kill all of them. no cameras, no videos, no witnesses.

53 greenmiler  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 12:23:07pm

I think the telling thing here is the video's that seem to show her as pleading, apparently abused..she did not look like she was enjoying the situation..then to come out and say she was well treated and turn on the US . She was either well treated or her pleadings we're bullshit, which goes to her credibility.

The death of the agent is sad, but too many GIs have been killed by bombers at checkpoints, and nobody was assasinated!
This to shall pass..

54 ajhatz  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 12:26:29pm

#25 #42

The key word is one DUer. I can't beleive the joy they get out of something that reflects bad on our troops.

55 Jax  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 12:28:36pm

Apparently, Sgrena was going to tell the world about how the Americans had used poison gas in Falujah. That's why our troops were trying to kill her. I saw it on rense.com, right next to the story about how the Germans gained so much technology from studying alien spaceships that had crashed, and not far from the story about how the Israelis blew up the World Trade Center.

I only wish I were joking about that website. It seems that a fairly large part of the "loyal opposition" treats that site as a news source. The Left just keeps getting crazier, and crazier, and crazier.

56 greenmiler  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 12:29:09pm
[You people who hate our troops make me want to puke. Sure, there are some bad apples in the 150,000 that are there. Any group of 150,000 people has some bad apples.
Accusing our troops of murder without proof, and believing every negative or wild-ass conspiracy story about them is just one of the reasons why the other side controls the White House, the Senate, the Congress, the Supreme Court and God-only-knows what else.

SOAB! A dem with logic!

57 Radian  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 12:34:53pm

DU is a stinking cesspool. I have never seen a larger collection of stupid fucks in one place.

Nuclear bomb caused tsunami
US used nerve gas in falauja.
etc..

They are truly the slime of the earth.

58 mot  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 12:35:32pm

isn't it enough that all these young guy's in Iraq are faced with untold mental strain and possibly death knowing that the next car that comes through their checkpoint might be the one!
that some activist b**ch reporter with no business being there in the first place would attempt to drive through a checkpoint is beyond me. To top it off she uses the incident to give the troops another morale kick in the nuts. The question should be ...what was she thinking? better still ...what was the driver thinking?

59 ajhatz  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 12:43:30pm

#57 Radian

I don't know if I'd call them all, the slime of the earth. But
I can say that most of them are unbelieveably stupid.

60 Terrye  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 12:44:10pm

Well obviously if the military had wanted her shut up, she would be shut up now wouldn't she? Instead she is preening for her adoring fans.

As for the driver, I don't think he was Iraqi and if the agent was already dead an autopsy would show what he was shot with.

But I have a hard time believing that the people in the vehicle wanted this to happen. They could not control the outcome. Unless of course she was trying to get herself killed.

But whatever else is true these reporters have got to stop going to these dangerous places and then bitching when they get shot at or whatever.

Just days before this some terrorist killed 125 people using a vehicle. They have to know they can't just drive a car where the hell ever they want to.

And why were they keeping her release from the coalition? Why wasn't she in a hospital instead of speeding down a road at night?

very odd.

I am sure the left will eat it up, but they can not get around three facts, she is alive, and she was in that country because she puit herself there and she is an anti American communist.

61 big L  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 12:46:42pm

working a rosdblock is a very dangerous post.
I can remember another time I read where a man in a pick-up was fired on because he wouldn't stop forthe road -block.
The key is to not speed towards a road-block and anything over about 15 is speeding,I'd guess.
If she is anti-war, and works in Iraq, and speaks Arabic
has a job with a Com-symp newspaper, you'd think that she'd knpow the lay-out. Thet is, if it is an terrorist road-block-she'd be sympatico withem and speak tothem, like her former captors. And if it is a US Army road-block, she'd just know not to speed up to it.
therefore, then she might well have been trying to stage a confrontation. And perhaps something went awry and the rest of her cast never showed (Press, other terrorists)

62 Nancy  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 12:48:04pm

Asked if the car was going too fast when the US troops opened fire, she said: “We weren’t going particularly fast given that type of situation.”

All she had to say was no.

It's a one of those "subjective" disclaimers that according to HER --it wasn't too fast based on the situation.

Meaning exactly what?

63 eddiebear  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 12:48:39pm

Actually Charles, didn't the DUmpster say after the election, "F**k the troops" because they voted for W?

64 Trippin  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 12:51:47pm

I have lost all sympathy for this evil little bitch.

The mere fact that she is alive is proof the soldiers didn't want to kill her. It's Iraq for fuck's sakes. Firepower is not in short supply. If the soldiers really wanted to "assasinate" her, she would have been dead.

This woman and her editor are a bunch fucking assholes.

65 Globular Cluster  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 12:56:38pm
Meaning exactly what?

Meaning that the car didn't stop.

66 JohnSteele  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 12:57:54pm

64 Trippin

She's an Italian Communist. he hates America, she has always hated America and she always will hate America. I understand her why she does it.

The ones's I can't fathom are Kos Kidz and the DU crowd. They want this to be a black eye for their country. The want the lies to be true.

67 Sydney Carton  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 12:59:18pm

"The ones's I can't fathom are Kos Kidz and the DU crowd."

Why? They hate America also.

68 JohnSteele  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 1:03:36pm

#67 Sydney Carton

Thats what I meant. I can't fathom why they hate America. The very thing that makes it possible for them to live free, say the things they want to say, and live successful lives in the process.

I just don't get it.

69 Almostout  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 1:04:24pm

As far as I am concerned, they should have left the bitch to be decapitated by their beloved terrorists. No American soldier should ever risk his/her life to rescue useless people like her. They contribute nothing to humanity!

70 Spiny Norman  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 1:04:58pm

#54 ajhatz

The key word is one DUer.

Or perhaps, one soon-to-banned DUer.

If the DUmbies, Morlocks and Kossaks think that if the US military comes off looking really, really bad, Bush will be impeached, resign or somehow leave office, they're more delusional than I thought.

A bunch of horrid spoiled children.

71 Nancy  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 1:05:21pm

I am saying staged too --all of it --including the speeding through which backfired because they likely failed to take into account that the soliders are crack shots who might not just shot the tires of a speeding vehicle.

If you look at other press photos --she had very dark hair.

Such as: [Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

Yet the photos I saw, she looks completely blond --

Anyone see any photos immediately AFTER if there were inches of dark showing?

I don't think the captors are going to provide her with hair color. So she should have either been dark or grey haired in case she is grey now but NOT blond.

I only saw photos after she returned to Italy.

72 Nancy  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 1:12:21pm

This one is recent -

Photo helping her out of the plane in Rome:

[Link: www.news24.com...]

Hard to tell. She isn't blond but it isn't dark as her earlier photos showed either.

It's definitely doesn't look "blond" with dark roots though.

73 Sydney Carton  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 1:17:29pm

"Thats what I meant. I can't fathom why they hate America."

It's not the business of ordinary men to pry into the minds of the insane. A "hatter is mad, because he measures man's heads."

That said, I think their problem is obvious. They are not normal people. I think partly attributable to the delusion of the left is the interconnectness of the internet, which allows otherwise derranged individuals the ability to coalesce into a firmidable mass. A decade ago, these people would end up in Sing Sing for their rantings. Now, they're seen as assets to raise money from.

The Kos and DU lunatics live on two polar extremes: their excessive emotionalism and their rabidly disconnected logic. Their emotional need for security in what they believe to be right, and their fanatical desire to crush opposition and to view the world in manichean terms, provides the fuel to a logic devoid of all reason (which is the classical definition of an insane person). They are not hampered in their logic by perspective, history, mannerisms, happiness, or humility. They are the very sort who, as proof that the entire world conspires against them, use the denials of everyone as support (for if the world really was conspiring against you, wouldn't it deny so?)

There's only so much you can learn from a twisted mind before the process begins to infect your own. That's why we have padded rooms and straitjackets - because the clinical professions can't hope to solve these problems and it's better to let them sit and rot, at least in safety. But as for us, on the outside in a world which views these derranged individuals as the Democratic "base," the times are rough. But luckily, for now, the power and initiative lies with us.

So let the Kos Kidz and DU Lunatics rant. They can do nothing but whine like spoiled children. After a while, people just tune it out. I say also, let this anti-American communist bitch rant too. She would've done as much anyway had she not been shot at by our troops. So did we lose much in her shooting? It's doubtful.

74 bigel[deleted]  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 1:19:08pm
75 Cognosus  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 1:24:09pm
She said the shooting continued “because the driver wasn’t even managing to explain that we were Italian. So, it was a really terrible thing.”

She implies strongly that the driver was still alive.

Because of that, I'm calling bullshit. When US troops fire on a moving vehicle with "a hail of gunfire," the first thing that they target is the driver. He does not stay alive.

I don't believe a single word of this.

76 Captain Hate  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 1:24:24pm

#68 John Steele

"Thats what I meant. I can't fathom why they hate America. The very thing that makes it possible for them to live free, say the things they want to say, and live successful lives in the process.

I just don't get it."

You don't get it because you expect them to act like responsible adults, which they decidedly aren't. Their parents, who were disgusting boomers showing the results of their parents being brainwashed by that commie prick Dr Spock, raised spoiled brats that knew the price of everything and the value of nothing. They never received enough punishment for their perpetual tantrums because their parents were immersed in "self-realization" and, as a result, began looking for an authority figure anywhere they could. Unfortunately they seem to find it in totalitarian states in which they're regarded as useful idiots or dhimmis?

77 Egfrow  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 1:29:22pm

#11 mossley,

Funny you should mention Eason Jordon. CNN has been trumpeting this thing as gospel truth every 30 minutes since the story broke. They seem more than willing to accept this story as full truth and CNN seem to also find glee in it.

Egfrow

78 quark2  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 1:29:28pm

@68 JohnSteele

This generation has not has to work at retaining their freedoms. Someone else from a foreign country has been securing their safety and freedoms, the U.S.
I think that's a good part of the problem. We should have left them standing in the moldering ruins of their fields, towns and cities to wonder how they were going to make it. Instead of putting more of our treasure and blood into their unappreciative and whining asses. They would have been too busy surviving to get themselves into the realms of fantasy they're in now.

79 SwampWoman  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 1:32:55pm

Well, now, let me consider this. If I were to speed toward a checkpoint the police set up in the United States as they were looking for murderers, would I get shot? You betcher ass I would. If I were to speed toward a checkpoint in a war zone could I reasonably expect a terminal case of lead poisoning? Oh, hell yes.

Not the soldiers' fault that somebody died due to a terminal case of bad judgement. Surprised the soldiers showed so much restraint after all the bombings (in that they didn't kill everybody inside).

80 Gabba Gabba Hey  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 1:33:15pm

I'm sure the hail of gunfire will be seared, seared in her memory.

81 Tim in PA  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 1:39:10pm

The left's protestations of "we support the troops" amount to nothing, and episodes like this are perfect examples of why.

You see, the entire reason they are against the war is because they think that our trrops are ignorant, bloodthirtsty Christian fundamentalist baby-killers; they don't think they will do the right thing on the ground over there.

This is why they are so quick to switch from claiming to "support our troops" to accusing them of all sorts of crap. It's just a cop out, intended to deflect criticism. Just like "how dare you question my patriotism" and "well, uh, uh, you're just a big mean racist!" and other well known moonbat defense mechanisms.

82 SwampWoman  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 1:40:48pm

#68 JohnSteele

#67 Sydney Carton

Thats what I meant. I can't fathom why they hate America. The very thing that makes it possible for them to live free, say the things they want to say, and live successful lives in the process.

I just don't get it.

Well, I don't know if "successful" lives is the correct term. Dysfunctional lives, yeah, I think that was the term you were groping for.

These are the same people that hate financially successful people with the same passion that they hate America and the troops and want to force people that have worked hard their entire lives to pay the money that they have worked hard for 12-15 hours a day, 7 days a week for years in higher taxes so that they will be able to suck freebies* out of the government and not have to be financially responsible.

*It ain't free, somebody has to pay for it.

83 John Galt  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 1:52:31pm

The response to this incident frustrates me on so many different levels. Obviously, we can expect vile comments from the drones at DU and from other anti-American corners. More frustrating is the sense that many Americans are walking on proverbial eggshells about this incident. I can almost read the public’s collective mind. “Oh heavens, what did they do now? Do we have to stick up for these prodigal sons again?”

If initial reporting is correct (and often it is not), it appears that the car attempted to run a checkpoint. There are no second chances with checkpoints. The VBIED threat is very high in Iraq. Running a checkpoint will not get you a ticket; it will get you killed. When you cross the trigger line, you get shot at. If you’ve never lost someone to a VBIED, or seen one employed against a checkpoint, then it may be difficult to understand the decision process involved. Each vehicle approaching is a threat. A speeding vehicle that disregards posted signs, lights, hand and arm signals, and verbal commands to halt is no longer a threat; it is fair game.

This was obviously not a planned ambush. The anti-America crowd, while vitriolic, must be reasonable enough to concede that our military is pretty good at what it does. If we had wanted to destroy that car, it would have been destroyed. This is almost certainly a case of a bad judgment call by a stressed-out driver.

84 Nancy  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 1:54:55pm

She claims they fired 300 -400 shots on the unmarked car with local plates.

Apparently she had the good sense to sit there and count.

Would ANY have survived 300-400 shots in that confined an area?

Also, nothing had been coordinated with the US. They had NOT been informed that she had been released nor that she would be arriving at the airport with the agents.

85 Powderfinger  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 2:06:38pm

Ugh. DU makes me want to vomit. There's someone slightly rational on that thread and they hate him. If you're not insanely anti-American, you don't fit in there.

Long story short: If the US military wanted to kill Sgrena, she'd be dead.

These kids aren't loyal opposition. They're On. The. Other. Side.

86 mjk  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 2:11:46pm

The thing that bugs me about this story is the checkpoint thing. Now I've never been in Iraq but I've been in Israel. If the checkpoints in Iraq are anything like the ones in Israel, there's no driving through them, no screwing around. Heck, the checkpoints at military installations in the US are nothing to fool around with. Anyone with half a brain knows you don't drive through a military checkpoint anymore than you drive through a border station without stopping. There's something kind of fishy about that. I don't even care about the allegations of "fake kidnapping" kicking around.

Oh and do not get me started on the no WMD's thing everyone keeps talking about. That just makes me so damn irritated.

87 DANEgerus  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 2:18:07pm

It's really what I call the Islamo-Fascist 'Witch-test'.

In the middle ages the test was pretty simple. I'm probably remembering incorrectly as my head is crowded by the 'MontyPythonHolyGrail-as-light-as-a-duck' test... but it boils down to if the woman floats she's burned as a witch and if she sinks she's mourned but proven innocent.

So as with the three Japanese 'hostage-frauds', the two Italian 'hostage-frauds', the recently released "journalist" who was able to prove his anti-American writings excused him, and now Mrs Hail-of-Bullets...

This poor woman faced the "test".

Would she die and so be proven an innocent victim or be released?

The irony of course is the 'witch' is released to burn us... rather then be burned.

My apologies to Witches of course... I don't mean to compare you to terrorists... rather I was struck by the Medieval nature of the Islamofascist methodology.

88 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 2:35:02pm

#7 -

fwiw, I have done a fair bit of driving in Italy. Seen plenty of wild driving. On the autostrada between Roma and Naples it is common to have someone pass between you and the car in the next lane - the passing car just creates a temporary lane. if you don't get freaked out by it and other Italian driving, you can learn to go with it. I had a friend in Rome tell me that they consider driving a bit of a "ballet". Regarding the shooting at the check point, it is completely plausible that an Italian driver would see his driving as "normal" when an American soldier would see it as aggressive. Of course, when in Rome, do as Romans do. problem is, the driver wasn't in Rome - he was approaching a known American military installation in a war zone. Who is at fault for the cultural misunderstanding?

89 quark2  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 2:44:12pm

@84 Nancy

Either she counted the rounds as they whizzed through the car, or she counted the holes in the car before being transported to a military hospital. She's lying.

90 UglyAmerican  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 3:03:50pm

I remember reading on another blog (don't remember which, but one of the mo' famous ones..)that The Troops on the C.P. went thru the whole wave down/warn off/warning shots/shoot to disable vehicle/shoot to kill thing and the driver lost control and crashed and the wreck is when the fatality and ALL injuries occured.

91 UglyAmerican  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 3:17:01pm

Miss Malkin has a new 'do...

It bugged me to just leave it hanging like that so there's where I saw it...

92 chevalier de st george  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 3:23:31pm

prhaps they deliberately run the road block because they had evidence in the car they did not want the americans to discover?

93 Stuck-in-CA  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 3:40:02pm

The woman is an Italian communist, what can you expect? She went to Iraq with an anti-American agenda, and now this will be more fodder for her. Forget that her car rushed a checkpoint at night...it's still those "bad Americans". I'm Italian. Screw Italian Communists...and all Communists, especially our own. They never change.

Ther terrorists kidnapped her and threatened to behead her. But the AMERICANS are the bad ones? The Commies paid off the terrorists to get her released. That money will fund more attacks and death, but Communists don't care about the lives of innocent Iraqis or American soldiers. Screw Communists. Shoot them all.

94 seadog  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 3:52:39pm

No... it'more basic than what's reported. IF the Itailians had let US authorities know that "they" had an op in progress, we would have backed off. As it was, we had a high, speed vehihcle heading towards a US checkpoint. What were they supposed to do?

95 kid charlemagne  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 4:22:23pm

Why isn't anyone saying how she was freed? Was it a military operation, was anyone killed? Or were the abductors paid off?

Remember those two Italian women hostages who were freed a couple of months ago under suspicious circumstances? Did it ever become clear what happened there?

96 RebeccaH  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 4:35:45pm

Thank you, lgf. I've been trying to find info as to whether this woman was a real hostage, or another leftist plant like that other Italian communist female journalist (forget her name). I bet she didn't expect to get shot, or to lose a friend while trying to pull off her leftoid scam. Surprise! U.S. Armed Forces don't play. Take that, stupid bitch.

97 godfrey  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 4:37:05pm

Over at the Corriere della Sera, Sgrena is quoted as saying the death of Calipari was a deliberate hit by a "pattuglia," or military patrol. She's saying there was no check point.

Oh, and Baghdad's Minister of the Interior said that Italy would have paid an enormous ransom for Sgrena's release. Gotta fund that "insurgency" somehow...

* spit *

98 Julie  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 5:09:00pm

Probably only something another 50-something woman would notice but...how is it that this gal looks like she has gained weight during her "captivity?" Something funny going on here...

99 Baldy  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 6:37:03pm

I'm sorry, but I don't trust those who are released. It probably isn't fair, but it's my gut reaction.

100 riverofpearls  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 6:45:20pm

Why does he (churchhill) give the food service workers a bill of innocence? I mean if the technical people were nazis weren't the food service workers, the elevator operators, the bathroom cleaners the people who cleaned the floors took out the garbage etc. ? How could the techies have survived without the food service workers and the janitors? In fact Churchhill did not exempt all these workers untill some woman on cnn called him o it. This is all gobblety goop and churchhill needs to get off the stage. Heroes of the democratic party _Robert Byrd former KKK , Ward Churchhill plagarist who has lied about everything and claimed another artists work as his own, Ted Kennedy someone who abandons a drowning woman, etc. _ The dregs of the world! This is the best the democrats have to offer?Why did 49% of americans vote for a democratic candidate to be president?

101 riverofpearls  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 6:48:42pm

Sorry wrong thread

102 templar  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 7:20:15pm

I doubt that even if US military intelligence had been notified the troops manning the roadblocks would have been informed. Or maybe the op went bad and the Italians were forced to change routes. There are a million things that could have gone wrong here. There is also the possibility that given this woman's background that she was a plant. The reason given by the conspiracy theorists, that the US used poison gas in Fallujah, doesn't pass the laugh test for a couple reasons: Reason one is that our troops didn't need it flush out that cesspit; Reason Two is that we can ask the soldiers returning from that engagement about it. The battlefield use of chemical weapons cannot be hidden for so long that it would take months after the incident for the story to hit the news cycle. Especially since the media is against us. Besides, as has been said in previous posts, if the army wanted her dead than she'd be dead. Its amazing to me that two contridictory views of the US armed forces, that they are all powerful global hegemones bent on total domination and that they are bumbling trigger happy cowboys, can exist in the same persons' mind. But then again Bush is both puppet and puppet master, dunce and evil genius, a chimp and Hitler at the same time to these people. Anyway, I'll wait till the investigation before passing out the poopie flavored lollipops.

103 Big Dan  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 7:25:39pm

What was this about the Japanese hostage situation being a fraud? I didn't hear about that, just that they were shunned in Japan when they returned.

Links please?

104 Nancy  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 7:49:06pm

no surprise

Story of Italian Hostage's Release Unclear
Many Holes in Reconstruction of Italian Hostage's Release and Shooting in Iraq by U.S. Troops Circumstances surrounding the Friday operation to release journalist Giuliana Sgrena from a month's captivity by Iraqi insurgents remained as murky as the tidbits that emerged in two earlier cases involving Italians kidnapped and then set free in Iraq.

[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

105 Rayra[deleted]  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 8:07:25pm
106 Rayra[deleted]  Sat, Mar 5, 2005 8:09:09pm
107 carridine  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 3:19:15am

#15- Concur yr Analysis: VidCams at, say, 90 checkpoints throughout Iraq. Not too much to handle. Little cassettes are cheap these days... not only put the lie to Leftists, but could even be used BY Sgrena to defend herself against charges that she pulled the agent near her and the shot him herself.

Some leftists are bound to realize she's at risk of charges like this.


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