LGF

-RetweetMaybe All 400 Bullets Missed?

Sun, Mar 6, 2005 at 1:18:20 pm PST

LGF reader Thor pointed out that the Associated Press has video of Giuliana Sgrena’s car; I found the video at The FeedRoom.

Sgrena claims that US troops fired between 300 and 400 rounds at the car from “an armored vehicle.”

Here is the image of the car from the video:

UPDATE at 3/6/05 1:54:30 pm:

There are dozens of wire stories and photo captions making the claim that Sgrena’s car was “riddled with bullets.”

How exactly does one “riddle” a car with bullets, yet leave the windshield unbroken?

UPDATE at 3/6/05 2:14:19 pm:

The AP video mentioned above is also available at Yahoo! News.

UPDATE at 3/6/05 3:37:16 pm:

If you watch the Associated Press video linked above, you’ll see a medium shot of this car, changing to a closeup, as the voice-over says, “Coalition forces fired on a vehicle that was approaching a checkpoint at a high rate of speed.”

But now it looks as if Associated Press used an image of the car in which Sgrena was kidnapped on February 4, without identifying it as such; here’s a photograph of that car. (Hat tip: Cattt.)

So we apparently have a false alarm here, triggered by a highly misleading AP video. This is not a photo of the car that ran the checkpoint ... but Sgrena’s claim that “300 to 400 bullets” were fired at her car is still completely ludicrous.

UPDATE at 3/6/05 4:18:36 pm:

Oh brother. In their video report on the incident, the Associated Press used a picture of a car that had nothing to do with Giuliana Sgrena. Here’s the caption for the earlier photo linked immediately above:

An Iraqi driver stands near his damaged vehicle at the site of the kidnapping of an Italian journalist outside al-Nahrain University in central Baghdad, February 4, 2005. Giuliana Sgrena was snatched from the street as she conducted interviews near the university, police sources and diplomats said. Gunmen pulled up alongside her vehicle, forced her driver and an Iraqi journalist with her out of the vehicle at gunpoint and then drove off with Sgrena, the sources said. The driver said that the gunmen hit his car as they were rushing away from the scene following the kidnapping. (Akram Saleh/Reuters)

UPDATE at 3/6/05 4:50:19 pm:

By the way, LGF has issued a correction. Where is the Associated Press’s correction for the incredibly misleading shot in their video?

UPDATE at 3/8/05 12:55:07 pm:

We now have pictures of the real car, and it looks even less damaged than the car shown above.

Advertisement

443 comments

  • Comments are open and unmoderated, and do not necessarily reflect the views of Little Green Footballs.
  • Obscene, abusive, silly, or annoying remarks may be deleted, but the fact that particular comments remain on the site in no way constitutes an endorsement of their views by Little Green Footballs.
  • Posts that contain phone numbers, street addresses, email addresses or other personal information will also be deleted, as will posts that consist only of a variation on the word, "First!"
  • Comments that advocate violence will be cause for immediate banning with no appeal.
  • Disagreement and debate are welcome, but insults and abuse are not, and may cause your account to be blocked.
  • REMEMBER: posting comments at LGF is a privilege, not a right. Abuse that privilege, and your account will be blocked.

Hide comments | Jump to bottom

1 smartalice  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:19:05am

the picture speaks a thousand words

2 Yankee Yankee Zulu  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:20:40am

400 bullets?

Hmmm...all I see is a badly dented hood and a dented bumper. Nothing Aamco can't fix in less than a day.

3 Obi-Wan  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:20:44am

One picture is worth a thousand lies.

4 smartalice  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:20:55am

I don't even see any bulletholes. Am I blind?

5 pajamazon  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:21:14am

First lie countered. Twenty-seven to go!

6 noshariaincanada  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:22:42am

details, details ... as if this mattered to the LLL throngs

7 zombie  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:23:28am

As I posted on the earlier thread: for those who are video-plugin-challenged, here is a screenshot from the AP video supposedly showing the car Sgrena was in. Similar to the photo Charles has above, but taken directly from the video, in context.

8 Blackacre  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:23:52am

C'mon, they're magic bullets. Didn't you know? They don't leave holes.

9 hithere  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:24:35am

The windshield ain't cracked. That's telling.

10 SkippyMoment  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:24:54am

A US military armored vehicle fired on that car with 400 rounds? Right, then we are either terrible marksmen and couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with an MX missle, or there was an invisible forcefield around that car.

I suspect this woman was overcome with hysteria, applied the new math where one US bullet equals a hundred, or she's got her own political ax to grind.

11 Captain Hate  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:25:38am

Maybe they were nerf bullets like the nerf torpedos on the USS Dhimmi Carter.

12 Charles  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:26:00am

zombie: that screenshot is also from the AP video; there's a closeup of the car immediately following the section from which you got your picture.

13 Dave Ray  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:26:27am

They're not magic bullets! Their special secret Zionist bullets that make holes that can only be seen through special moonbat glasses while wearing regulation tinfoil hat!

14 zombie  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:26:32am

Charles, you've blitzed* the FeedRoom video link. All I get is an error page.

* blitzed = overwhlemed by visitors coming from a link on Little Green Footballs.

15 hithere  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:26:53am

#10 SkippyMoment

If she's wrong about the 400 bullets, what else is she wrong about?

16 CowardKerry  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:26:54am

I knew it, bullshit...the truth will come out, the moonies will cry cover-up and believe the commie anyway. Same ol same ol.

17 ajackson  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:27:07am

They fired 400 rounds and missed! I didn't think the French were part of the coalition.

18 Village Idiot's Apprentice  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:27:57am

As I'm sure some have already said, and many will again,
Where is the shattered windshield?
Why are the tire not flat?

Are we sure this is the correct car?

Charles?

19 arier_tzvi  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:28:04am

I dont see the bullets do you see the bullets?

20 Pro-Bush Canuck  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:28:21am

All 400 bullets wen through the open window. The copy of Das Kapital in her pocket saved her by absorbing all the capitalist lead.

21 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:28:38am

Yup. Just like me, they're shooting blanks.

22 zombie  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:29:24am

#12 Charles.
Oh! OK. Also, don't forget the original photo linked to by the all-powerful Thor:

Sgrena car closeup.
Not sure if it's a separate image, or taken from the video too.

23 Blackacre  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:29:52am

#13 Dave Ray: Well, it's not a special secret anymore. Did you really have to let the moonbats know?

24 denbike  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:30:43am

Again Charles does the work the professional media is supposed to do.

25 steve  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:31:24am

Must be ammunition bought from the French!

We need to build more ammunitions manufacturing plants in the US.

What a lying skank (sp)! She makes me embarressed to even think that I went to Journalism school.

26 Catttt  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:31:40am

Thanks. I tried to pause and take a cap of the car, but I haven't yet mastered that art.

I see no broken glass. I've done more damage trying to park!

27 not neo just conservative  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:31:54am

It depends on what the definition of "300 to 400 rounds" is...

28 Grumpy Tory Student  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:32:49am

It can't be the car...

Whence would have come the bullet that killed the agent who rescued the pinko?

29 zombie  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:32:56am

Y'know, I'm still not 100% positive this is the car involved in the incident. We're relying entirely on this AP video report, but the way the report is worded, they never actually specifically say "This is her car." They just refer to her car, and simultaneously show the video of a car, without unequivacally stating that it is the car in question.

I'm sure tons of more info will be forthcoming soon.

30 Iron Fist[deleted]  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:33:39am
31 EOCostello  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:33:49am

I think it is likely that the argument will be made that there were a lot of misses. Which brings up an important question:

(1) At what range were the bullets fired?

If the bullets were fired at relatively short range, then the estimate of 300-400 bullets is fairly improbable. If long range, then it's slightly more probable that the bullets missed.

Another interesting question:

(2) What weapons were used?

The use of rifles versus the weapons on an AFV might make a difference in terms of firing rate, accuracy, caliber, and damage.

The picture above puzzles me in one respect:

(3) Why isn't the windscreen more shattered?

One would expect a hail of gunfire to leave the windscreen in fragments, or with highly noticeable fragments/star patterns. I don't see any, though I admit that could be the angle.

(4) Is the damage seen in the picture consistent with that produced by firing on an engine block?

32 the_flying_pig  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:33:52am

It is my conclusion that the entire kidnapping of Giuliana Sgrena by said insurgent-kidnappers are staged and choreographed by Sgrena and her anti-war, anti-Bush Italian leftists to get Italian troops out of Iraq!

Spread the words!

33 CDRSalamander  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:33:55am

Reason 436 why major news organizations need some one with prior military experience on staff. If that car had 300-400 rounds from an "armored vehicle” in it, you would not be able to recognize it. .50 cal, 20 mm are the major gun. 7.62mm or even the 5.56 mm SAW would leave HUGE amounts of damage. The first two would make it unrecognizable. Very few rounds were expended. When the after action report comes out, we'll know. My vote is less than 20 5.56mm.

Want to see what just a few rounds of a 50cal can do to a civilian car; take a look at this Benz.

[Link: www.cars.auto.ru...]

She is a Communist. Does anyone expect the truth from her? Funny, if she wrote for a Nazi paper, I don't think anyone would bother...but as we know, some supports of genocidal philosophy are more equal than others.

34 dennisw  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:34:09am

Score another touch down for Charles with a deftly thrown spiral by LGF operative Thor.

35 Geepers  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:34:12am

I've driven home from accidents worse than that.

36 baldrick  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:34:17am

Link doesn't work, is the whitewash already beginning?

37 The Old Coot  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:34:19am

No doubt Karl Rove was behind the whole thing.

38 mjk  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:34:32am

Hey, I'm a terrible markswoman. I'm fairly certain that soldiers who are trained to shoot things would be better at it than me and would actually HIT the car if they were aiming at it. But hey, maybe they send little girls with no military experience whatsoever over to run their big automatic weapons and Bradley thingies for them.

39 SkippyMoment  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:34:45am

#15 hithere

I know we've said it here so many times but what the hell is wrong with the MSM and 'journalism' as a whole where the assertions and allegations of one person go unchallenged and reported as facts.

Maybe she was just so relieved to be released that she was delirious and hysterical. Maybe it was a backfire from some car with engine trouble and no bullets were fired. Who knows. Either she lied, or was seriously confused. Okay, so that's her possible excuse. What about everyone else?

Where were the reporters searching out the vehicle and snapping photos to have the proof of US wrong-doing? Piss-poor reporting. We now live in the era of Accusical Journalism... no facts necessary, just the accusation (the more sensational the better) is enough. Make me want to cough up a hairball.

40 Goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:36:34am

As several of us have asked on related threads today re the agent killed by a SINGLE shot to the BACK of the head:

How?

I don't see any broken glass in the rear or right rear window (I can't tell about the left read window).

41 Chris Allen  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:36:44am

#18 and #26:

I don't think they were aiming at the windshield. If you look carefully at the blow-up Zombie linked to in #22, you can just see what appears to be shattered glass in both of the left-side windows. Still, if there were 300+ bullets fired, it'd look worse than the Bonnie and Clyde Death Car.

42 hithere  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:36:49am

#29 zombie

Maybe the AP photo is a file photo taken before the incident. Even so, if I saw a piece of crap like that barreling toward my checkpoint, I would give it the benefit of the doubt.

43 Charles  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:38:29am

If that isn't her car, the AP video is highly misleading. As the voice-over says, "Coalition forces fired on a vehicle that was approaching a checkpoint at a high rate of speed," they cut to a medium shot of this car, then the closeup above.

This must be Sgrena's car.

44 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:39:24am
45 Andrew B.  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:40:31am

I think we should remain indifferent untill all the facts come out...or untill our Italian beauty Queen shuts up long enough for us to decipher all the FACTS...and NOT OPINIONS!

/sarcasm off?

46 Catttt  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:40:36am

If the agent covered the reporter with his body to protect her, which would be the natural reaction in his profession, then he could have been in the perfect position for a ricochet from the engine block.

I thought he was hit by shrapnel. Are we sure it was a bullet?

47 wlk  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:40:58am

dunno about you guys, but she said they weren't speeding going at 25mph. I don't claim to be an insurance specialist, but i would think that an accident at 25 mph would not cause that much damage to the car.

48 plutosdad  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:41:04am

What a bitch. I no longer feel sorry for her. The fact that she is outright lying about the incident makes me start to believe that she set up the US, perhaps telling her driver "go through don't stop" hoping they'd get shot up and she could make the US look bad. Just like a suicide bomber.

OK that sounds like a crazy consipiracy theory, but it's not half as bad as what the MSM prints every day.


#40
Because he got on top of her to protect her, so his head was facing the front. At least that's what I thought.

49 Q  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:41:11am

Maybe it was a fuckin' miracle.

- That was...divine intervention. You know what divine intervention is?

- Yeah, I think so. That means God came down from Heaven and stopped the bullets.

- Yeah, man, that's what is means. That's exactly what it means! God came down from Heaven and stopped the bullets.

- I think we should be going now.

- Don't do that! Don't you fuckin' do that! Don't blow
this shit off! What just happened was a fuckin' miracle!

50 DaZoid81  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:41:17am

so on top of being tools for an evil government and horrible horrible people who purposefully target innocent civilians - especially children and reporters, they're also incompetent at their jobs! I whole heartedly support our troops though, thats why I say things like this.
( /moonbat impression )

51 Robert Crawford  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:41:23am

Hundreds of bullets in a hail of fire would have certainly shattered more than one of the side windows. At the least the windshield would have multiple holes in it, as would the rear window. The headlights are intact; the tires are intact...

If this is the car Sgrena was in, then I'm amazed anyone was killed.

52 plutosdad  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:41:48am

I meant the back of his head was facing the front,

53 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:42:01am
54 Nancy  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:42:07am

I don't know but the hypothesis that the shot that killed the agent came from inside the car makes more sense.

It is not known whether the deceased agent was the driver --the driver was identified as a "secret agent" as well. Nor is it known if he and she were not in the front seat with the other passenger (or passengers) in the back.

It is the US who claims there was only one other occupant of the car who was injured and refused treatment and it is she who says 2 others were injured.

55 jrdroll  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:43:08am

#46 cattt

I thought he was hit by shrapnel. Are we sure it was a bullet?


An autopsy was performed Sunday, and ANSA quoted doctors as saying Calipari was struck in the temple by a single round and died instantly.


[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

56 JammieWearingFool  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:43:09am

You see, if it had been UN "peacekeepers", they never would've missed this many shots.

Just ask the pregnant girls in the Congo.

57 Andrew B.  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:43:17am

S + D man...wasssup?

58 Catttt  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:43:24am

I easily found several pictures of Iraqi cars that were shot up in Fallujah. All had many bullet holes in the windows.

I also easily found pictures of car bombs that detonated at checkpoints, killing allied personnel.

59 Free Speech Is Only For über-Libs  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:44:11am

where are the 400 bullet holes?

60 Catttt  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:44:16am

55 jrdroll

Thanks.

61 Andrew B.  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:44:19am

#56 JammieWearingFool

talk about bad taste...sorry about that pun...

62 Andrew B.  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:44:57am

#59 Free Speech Is Only For über-Libs

The bullets are on the OTHER SIDE...

riiight...

63 baldrick  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:45:05am

[Link: apnews.myway.com...]

Hmm they are saying an autopsy of the Italian agent shows a single shot to the temple. Now if an armored vehicle round hit that guy in the temple his head would have been blown apart.

In the picture above we see the car with no bullet holes, yet there is a claim that 300 or more rounds from an armored vehicle were fired. And only one person was killed, with a single bullet to the temple.

Something is not quite right. I'm beginning to wonder who really shot the Italian agent.

We already know Sgrena's politics concerning Iraq, who's to say this incident was not staged? It would serve her interests as well as the insurgent's. Far-fetched I know, but this story is not making any sense the way Sgrena is telling it.

64 Catttt  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:45:40am

The pic reminds me of when the compressor on my old Torino blew up half-way between Carolina and Texas in July.

65 pdq332  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:45:42am

The hubcaps are gone too. Is there no dignity?

66 hithere  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:46:08am

correction #42

if I saw a piece of crap like that barreling toward my checkpoint, I wouldn't give it the benefit of the doubt.

67 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:46:27am
68 JammieWearingFool  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:46:29am

47,

I don't claim to be an insurance specialist, but i would think that an accident at 25 mph would not cause that much damage to the car.

Neither am I an insurance specialist, but I hope they switched to Geico in time.

Come to think of it, the Geico commercials are more believable than this story.

69 Joe Bananas...in Pyjamas  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:46:49am

What I dont get is, why isn't this journalist grilled for being so stupid to go to Iraq in the first place, Why should an Italian Intelligence agent go to all the trouble of securing her release and endangering the lives of others?

She is to blame if any one is, over the death of the officer.

Not one lousy pathetic MSM has leveled any type of criticism on this idiots stupidity for being in Iraq in the first place.

70 Free Speech Is Only For über-Libs  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:46:56am

#20

The copy of Das Kapital in her pocket saved her by absorbing all the capitalist lead.

One laugh each and every day keeps the doc away. Thanks for that! LOL!

71 Dov  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:47:05am

Now are troops are definitely GOOD and CONSISTENT They put all 400 shots in the same hole.

72 plutosdad  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:48:13am

#31
I just finished reading Rogue Warrior by Richard Marcinko, and he was saying when he took some SEALs in vietnam on practice firing at a rowboat, they all expanded all their ammo, and only two bullet holes were in the boat.

So they spent a lot of time practicing after that until they were much better at hitting moving targets.

I think there is something like 13,000 rounds fired per kill? I don't know what the stat is for our modern armed forces, but still it is a lot.

73 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:49:04am
74 Free Speech Is Only For über-Libs  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:49:38am

#62 Andrew B.

LOLOLOL! ohnn - those magic one-way bullets. Of course.

75 Dave the.....  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:49:59am

I've been off of LFG since Friday afternoon...so many threads...so many comments (I missed the Slick Willie praising Iran thing).

So the LLL bitch and bitch about "right wing Fox News." I get almost all of my TV & radio news from Fox (non-local news) and Fox has been running this story quite a bit and I dedect a slant against our military. It's not a bad slant, but they are a little too sympathetic to the people running the car towards the check point in a high security area.

76 pickles  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:50:26am

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if this were some kind of setup. There's no proof of that at this point, but given her politics and the terrorists involved it's not a long shot.

This whole situation doesn't pass the smell test. Like someone said, we dont' even know whether the above car is really the car or what the deal is...I don't trust that woman nor Reuters for that matter (who has been carrying most of the story on this). They are communist sympathizing rags.

77 JammieWearingFool  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:50:29am

61,

Thanks.

If you read between my filthy lines, there's a scandal in there much greater than this, shall I dare say, kerfuffle?

78 CowardKerry  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:51:08am

#72, I belive those stats are for small arms which in a jungle environment is feasible. This was a car on a road in plain sight and fired on by a bradley with a higher advanced targeting system.

79 jrdroll  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:51:23am

Please help.

So an antiwar journalist is kidnapped in Baghdad then is shown on video demanding coalition forces leave Iraq then is freed by the kidnappers who tell her: "to be careful because the Americans don't want you to return." and then comes under fire by the Americans.

Are these facts correct? If so this whole thing smells rotten like cheap commie agitprop.

80 FabioC.  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:52:31am

Anyone has a link to the story saying that the third man in the car was another journalist and not an officer?

81 Ojoe  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:52:44am

Yeah its "Accusational Journalisim". You should hear NPR and the BBC these last few days.

82 VerticalSwordsman  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:54:22am

Thank heavens for Charles and LGF. The commies and lefties are no longer content to apply their fantasies to their spin. Their weapon of choice is clearly the wholesale INVENTION of stories that denigrate the US and our troops. They must be countered every step of the way.

83 GengisKahn  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:54:28am

I go back to the question I asked this morning "who was the tihrd person in the car?"

84 JammieWearingFool  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:54:55am

79,

So an antiwar journalist is kidnapped in Baghdad then is shown on video demanding coalition forces leave Iraq then is freed by the kidnappers who tell her: "to be careful because the Americans don't want you to return." and then comes under fire by the Americans.

Thems the facts, succinctly summarized.

85 CowardKerry  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:55:00am

The NY times will come out with the truth...On the 53rd page in disclaimer sized font. sarc

86 Mr Pol  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:55:14am

I remember driving a car that looked exactly like that, about 25 years ago... :-)

87 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:55:45am
88 Final Historian  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:55:50am
63 baldrick 3/6/2005 01:45PM PST

[Link: apnews.myway...]

Hmm they are saying an autopsy of the Italian agent shows a single shot to the temple. Now if an armored vehicle round hit that guy in the temple his head would have been blown apart.

In the picture above we see the car with no bullet holes, yet there is a claim that 300 or more rounds from an armored vehicle were fired. And only one person was killed, with a single bullet to the temple.

Something is not quite right. I'm beginning to wonder who really shot the Italian agent.

We already know Sgrena's politics concerning Iraq, who's to say this incident was not staged? It would serve her interests as well as the insurgent's. Far-fetched I know, but this story is not making any sense the way Sgrena is telling it.


I am starting to think you may be onto something Baldrick. This just isn't adding up. I don't see any holes in the hood of the car, and I don't see how the agent could have been shot, without the windows being broken. This smells fishy.

I think that the blogosphere has a another case to solve folks.

89 Scipio  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:56:58am

#72 plutosdad

I think there is something like 13,000 rounds fired per kill? I don't know what the stat is for our modern armed forces, but still it is a lot.

I think that's just total number of rounds expended in a conflict divided by the number of enemy casualties. Doesn't tell you much.

90 FabioC.  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:57:09am

#83 Gengis Khan

The thirs person (the driver) was apparently another SID agent.
Earlier reports talked about a third agent, but it has been denied later - at least by some sources.

91 Gunny  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:59:26am

Ut oh, I can see it coming...

Rumsfeld ambushed at a news conference by irate Italian journalists demanding to know why their vehicles aren't heavily armored...

92 hithere  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:59:28am

#41

if there were 300+ bullets fired, it'd look worse than the Bonnie and Clyde Death Car.

The B&C death car 'only' had about 160 bullet holes in it. It was a stolen car and the owner, after legal wranglings with the local sherriff, got possession of the car and drove it from Louisiana back to her home in Topeka, Kansas. (The g-men weren't aiming for the engine.)

93 solomonpanting  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:59:29am

#39 SkippyMoment

"...but what the hell is wrong with the MSM..."

Years ago there was a breakfast cereal commercial showing two little boys who were reluctant to try a 'new' cereal and decided to offer it to there little brother 'Mikey'. "Let's give it to Mikey, he'll try anything."

This is exactly how I see the MSM and any 'news' that happens to come their way. The MSM will print anything.

94 Dave the.....  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:59:33am

You 'd think our military would be investigating this also. Looking at the autoposy versus what the security people were firing.

95 Final Historian  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 11:59:38am

Another thing, where is the blood? If someone in that car got shot in the head, I would expect a fair amount of blood over the windows. I see none.

96 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:00:09pm

I'm not an insurance specialist either, but that looks like a fender-bender. 10-20 mph, max.

Maybe the US troops fired rounds made of ice, that then melted, leaving now evidence.

97 JimmyTheClaw  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:00:30pm

#88 Final Historian 3/6/2005 01:55PM PST

63 baldrick 3/6/2005 01:45PM PST


I am starting to think you may be onto something Baldrick. This just isn't adding up. I don't see any holes in the hood of the car, and I don't see how the agent could have been shot, without the windows being broken. This smells fishy.

I think that the blogosphere has a another case to solve folks.


ok start talking like scooby doo and fire up the mystery machine

98 Dave the.....  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:00:34pm

#92

Not to go OT, but where is that car now? It'd be quite a tourist attraction.

99 gymnast  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:00:39pm

300+ rounds from the automatic weapons on an armored vehicle and even the the lugnuts and license plate fastners would be scrap.

100 not neo just conservative  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:01:14pm

#334 Rayra

Not necessarily. Apparently his head wasn't "exploded" and if the shot to the head kills you instantly, you don't bleed very much. It takes a heartbeat to bleed.

101 FriarsTale  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:01:42pm

Maybe the body guard was shot by the terrorists because he knew too much, then they charged the checkpoint to draw fire and make a cover story.
Or am I being the mirror image of a moonbat?

102 jrdroll  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:01:54pm

#83

"who was the tihrd person in the car?"
One other member of the Italian secret service was in the car as well and was wounded. Italian officials said earlier there were two others in the car, but said Sunday there was only one other.


[Link: www.cnn.com...]

103 not neo just conservative  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:02:03pm

Oops, my last post should have been directed to: #95 Final Historian

104 Sean II  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:02:07pm

BBC jumpin on the band wagon:

Hostage's shooting 'no accident'

105 Grumpy Tory Student  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:03:35pm

Does this remind anyone of those Kennedy magic bullet theories?

I can just see it now:

"The magic bullet in this case was fired up by an evil Fascistic soldier hick, ducked a quick shot down-right, ruined the engine, took a quick stop in the water pump to cool off, continued on its journey, popped through the dashboard, made a quick detour around the head of the driver, made a 90-degree turn, headed to the end of the window front passenger window; from there, it made a 60 to 75-degree turn to face the Italian agent, and struck his temple accordingly. Further attempts were made to strike the communist reporter, but the copy of the Complete Works of Marx, worn over her heart, proved too difficult to penetrate. The bullet then retired to the original resting place, in the head of the agent."

I mean, it makes so much sense! How could you NOT believe!?

106 Iron Fist[deleted]  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:03:38pm
107 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:03:55pm
108 Athos  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:04:20pm

This has all the makings of a very bad mystery novel and or an amatuerish op designed to make the US look bad and try to appeal to the anti-war left in Italy when the PM could be vulnerable in the next election.

109 not neo just conservative  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:04:56pm

From the BBC article.

Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena has said she cannot accept US troops accidentally fired on her car after her kidnappers freed her in Baghdad.

They didn't fire on the car accidentally. They fired on it on purpose, just not very many times, and not specifically with her in mind.

110 TotallySirius  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:05:22pm

Another MSM lie,exposed by the blogosphere.

Well done

111 Nancy  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:05:31pm

88 Final Historian

The news stories are saying it was to the temple but if this is correct --it sounds as though it exited in the temple --above the left ear and I think "parietal-occipitale" is in the back of the head.

Autopsy translation:
the legal doctors would have ascertained that Calipari has been deceased instantaneously because of an alone blow of arm from fire that reached it to the head, in the region parieto-occipitale that then is gone out little above the left ear.

See diagram and brain terminology here
[Link: www.brain-mart.com...]
[Link: www.med.umich.edu...]

That is went into the back of his head and exited above his ear and striking her shoulder would be consistent with her wound which was shrapnel.

112 CowardKerry  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:05:34pm

#100

A head shot is always bloody, and your heart keeps beating after a head shot. And if his head was hit by a 25 mm it would be brain soup everywhere.

113 GengisKahn  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:06:43pm

Has anyone heard from the SID (I'm guessing that this is Italian Intelligence?) agent that was in the car. What is his story?

From the inital reports it was mentioned when the vehicle refused to slow down after the flashing of lights, the firing of warning shots that the troops at the check point fired into the engine compartment attempting to stop the vehicle. (This is SOP in keeping with curretn training and speaks volumes about the discipline of the young men and women when confonted with a high energy decision like this.)

It was at this point the car went out of control and crashed. Initial news reports also had it that it was the crash that killed the intel officer and not a bullet.

The picture seems to support the initial reports.

114 Powderfinger  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:06:55pm

Google News, are you seeing this?

Q: Why can't I find this story on Google News?

A: Because they don't consider LGF a news source.

115 JonB  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:07:07pm

A journalist? Lying?

bah! That never happens. The MSM told me so. They said that they are honest, professional, and unbiast in thier reporting, and that they cover each story objectively, and that each story is reviewed for accuracy before being p...

Oh. Sorry. Channeling a Moonbat there for a moment.

116 gymnast  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:07:14pm

#100. Do you have any practical (or scientific) experience in the measure of the number of heartbeats after a headshot? Also bloor flows out of a hole just fine for a while under the inlfluence of gravity.

117 Baldy  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:07:42pm

It doesn't matter if the charges are false, what matters is the magnitude of the charges.

118 Beagle  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:07:51pm

The real story, which will go unreported, is the Left using fake kidnappings to fund the terrorists with state ransoms. I'd like to know if the Italian, French, and Spainish Left are coordinating with the terrorists outside Iraq. The terrorists have offices in Paris and Amsterdam.

News organizations creating their own world events has a long and ignoble history. That's a story you'll never hear reported in the mainstream media. One example is the anti-Vietnam War demonstrations where reporters were known to encourage violence. Peaceful protests don't get you the top-of-the-wire photo.

119 Baier  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:08:18pm

300-400 rounds is 10-13 soldiers emptying their 30 round M-16s into the car. I seriously doubt that happened. The man that was killed, the driver, was only hit once throught he temple.

This suggests a soldier or two traking the car with their guns while others were trying to get it to stop.

It didn't stop, so a a marksman kills the driver with one shot, through the head. A couple other soldiers also fired on the car, wounding one other. There is no way in hell US soldiers could fire 300-400 rounds and miss that badly.

120 Ward Cleaver  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:08:43pm

If they had taken 300 to 400 rounds, they would have made Bonnie and Clyde's bodies look good by comparison.

I think that within a week or a month, this whole "kidnapping" thing will be proved to be a hoax. Thanks to the blogosphere, of course.

121 Baldy  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:10:25pm

If all Commies count as badly as she does, no wonder the Soviet Union fell.

122 Rayra[deleted]  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:10:30pm
123 CowardKerry  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:10:51pm

If the car was only traveling 25 mph I could put more holes in it with a hand gun at 50 yards let alone an m-16 or a bradley main gun . This is rotten to the core.

124 Craig Abu Al-Boo-Boo  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:11:08pm

#43 Charles
If that isn't her car, the AP video is highly misleading. As the voice-over says, "Coalition forces fired on a vehicle that was approaching a checkpoint at a high rate of speed," they cut to a medium shot of this car, then the closeup above.

This must be Sgrena's car.


I don't put as much faith in the AP as you do.

How could she have been shot in the shoulder, and the agent who negotiated her realease have been killed by gunfire in this car if the Americans had been in front, at a checkpoint?

125 sven10077  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:11:21pm

They followed doctrine took out the engine and killed the driver...

what's the problem?

126 JammieWearingFool  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:11:35pm

Hey, this story might have Dan Rather mulling over a comeback before he even leaves.

It smells so bad, the lure may be too great. Then he can groom Sgrena to take over his job.

127 PDM  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:12:14pm
Maybe All 400 Bullets Missed?

The 401st is a charm.

128 Wind Rider  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:12:15pm

This bizarro land just-at-release tragedy stinks of a manufactured incident, just like this particular entire kidnapping episode in general.

Somebody got a link to the autopsy information on the Italian negotiator? I'd be very interested in comapring the caliber of bullet from his head wound to the ones used by the checkpoint personnel.

And if there is a recoverable slug, can we get a forensic ballistics look at the bullet that killed him, and representative rounds of the weapons issued/carried/fired by the troops on duty?

This woman was an avowed communist, sympathetic to the Stalinistic leanings of the Ba'athist thugs, and if not completely sympathetic with the jihadis, at least anti-American enough to possibly be motivated enough to participate in a stunt to discredit US actions, in some small way.

And, given that her 'abduction' induced little more than apparently semi-stifled yawns, even from her erstwhile media colleagues, this 'tragedy' (I suspect calculated murder) does provide that one more, soon to be incoherent in the midst of other, spittle filled point of rave for unwashed, puppet weilding pro-commie demonstrators.

129 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:12:53pm

#101 Friars Tale

"Maybe the body guard was shot by the terrorists because he knew too much, then they charged the checkpoint to draw fire and make a cover story.
Or am I being the mirror image of a moonbat?"

I brought up that possibility on the earlier string. This is not a Moonbattish conspiracy theory:
A. It is offered as speculation and not fact. There are enough inconsistencies and anomalies in Sgrena's account to suggest willful dishonesty, providing a warrant for such speculation.
B. It does not contradict the facts as they are so far known.
C. It is the kind of action that two people could conceive and execute on the spot.
D. It is consistent with the evidence of collusion between Sgrena and her alleged kidnappers.

At this point, we need to establish definitely that the car had only three, and not four, occupants and, if that is the case, exactly who the third occupant was.

130 Mich.manatee  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:13:04pm

Related topic:

Did anybody else see the show about old artillery pieces on the History Channel the other night?

It ended with a contest between a middle-aged American hobbyist with a Civil War cannon and a Canadian Army artillery team with a modern field piece. They had to shoot five rounds at a plywood target about ten feet tall by five feet wide, at 1000 feet.

With their modern, high-tech cannon, the Canadians missed, hitting the target with only a couple of chunks of shrapnel.

With their 150-year-old muzzle loader, the American civilians scored three direct hits.

It was gratifying and horribly mortifying at the same time.

But a testimony to American marksmanship.

131 Nancy  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:13:26pm

I don't think all gun shot wounds bleed profusely

I know in reality there is often less blood than it shows in movies.

132 CowardKerry  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:13:31pm

Also, a 25 mm round would not only had splatter the mans brain it would have gone right through and killed her as well.

133 Beagle  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:13:46pm

Um, Spanish.

Anyway, I think this was another fake kidnapping. There have been several. The reporter wanted to be the news. The best way to fund terrorists and put pressure on a government is to make yourself a 'hostage'. It has a proven track record since the *spit* Phillipines paid a huge sum for their hostages and withdrew their troops.

One must understand the anti-Americanism of the European Left for this to make sense. Think of a pit bull (the Europeans) having to endure a larger more powerful dog always barking (America). Sorry. It's the nick.

134 texanista  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:15:13pm

Don't forget Patty Hurst! lol

135 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:15:50pm

Gymnast-


I'm not a doctor, but I have seen the video of the famous shooting (better known from a still photo) of a Viet Cong guerilla be executed by a South Vietnamese colonel, and the VC dropped instantly to the ground, quite obviously dead, but there was just a geyser of blood coming out as he went down.

136 cardiacmont  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:15:59pm

Giuliana Sgrena

137 Rayra[deleted]  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:16:04pm
138 CowardKerry  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:16:20pm

Nancy it depends on where you are hit, a head wound is always bloody. If a body shot, if no major arteries or blood vessles are hit you would be correct.

139 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:16:24pm

I really should PIMP even my simple posts to ensure my syntax makes sense.

140 Mr Pol  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:16:37pm

#124 Craig Abu Al-Boo-Boo

How could she have been shot in the shoulder, and the agent who negotiated her realease have been killed by gunfire in this car if the Americans had been in front, at a checkpoint?

IMHO the fucking idiots inside the car had their handguns out, safety off, and their fucking fingers on the fucking triggers, that's how. G-ddamned civilians, give 'em a fucking piece and they morph into Rambo...

141 Final Historian  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:16:57pm
142 Embermage  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:17:05pm

#96 Ed

You've seen way too much Charlie Chan. It was a good theory though. I doubt you could make it work.

143 bigel[deleted]  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:17:47pm
144 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:18:15pm
145 gymnast  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:18:57pm

This whole "kidnapped-recued Italian journalist" is nothing but a bunch of Dan Rather. The only difference is nature of the "documentation". This story is false on it's face because it has no holes.

146 Iron Fist[deleted]  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:19:47pm
147 DP111  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:20:19pm

So what have we hear.

A car that refused to stop at a check point, in a region notorious for suicide car bomb attacks. US troops open fire - 300 or 400 rounds from an armoured car - little apparant damage to the car and majority survived.

I'm sorry. This car could well have been a terrorist suicide car bomb. Hundreds could have been dead and injured. It should have been destroyed in short order. Considering the ineffective response of the soldiers, they should be hauled up and sent for basic training.

148 CCR  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:21:23pm

Why, if this car was refusing to stop for a checkpoint, was it not hit with a large anti-vehicular weapon? I'd be a lot less concerned about suicidally stupid RoE if it looked like it should have palestinians playing in it.

149 Mr Pol  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:21:30pm

#146 Iron Fist

Like Wind Rider, I am curious about the caliber (and exact type) of bullet. 7.62 Tokarev, perhaps?

The last few times I met SID agents they had .25 and 9x17... and didn't know how to use 'em.

150 mootata  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:21:53pm

This can’t be the car. If this car was bearing down on me, and I thought it was going to blow my little ass to smithereens… and I had a machine gun… it defiantly would not, I repeat not, look like that one after I got through with it.

151 Final Historian  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:21:54pm

#140 Mr Pol

IMHO the fucking idiots inside the car had their handguns out, safety off, and their fucking fingers on the fucking triggers, that's how. G-ddamned civilians, give 'em a fucking piece and they morph into Rambo...

Given how often I see people ignore the most basic rule of gun use (keep your finger off the tringer unless you plan on shooting), this wouldn't be a total shock.

152 Craig Abu Al-Boo-Boo  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:22:48pm

#140 Mr Pol
IMHO the fucking idiots inside the car had their handguns out, safety off, and their fucking fingers on the fucking triggers, that's how. G-ddamned civilians, give 'em a fucking piece and they morph into Rambo...


According to the stories I've read, the soldiers shot at the engine block of the car.

If that's true, it wasn't this car.

I think some AP videographer showed up at the scene to make tape for the story, hours after it happened, but the actual car involved in the incident wasn't there anymore - it was removed - so he taped this hunk of crap that was in the area.

He sends his tape in, and there's a shot of this junker, which some clueless AP editor includes in the story because hey, a car's a car, right?

153 Egfrow  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:24:26pm

Ha. Scew all of you infidels. I have found the real picture of the car. This proves that the Amerikans have tried to kill them all.

The Real Bullet Riddled Car

154 Final Historian  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:25:01pm

#149 Mr Pol

The last few times I met SID agents they had .25 and 9x17... and didn't know how to use 'em.

Ever see the movie Pulp Fiction? I am thinking about the scene where the guy gets shot in the car by accident...

155 Mentat  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:25:02pm

OT:

Give us Condi in 2008!

[Link: americansforrice.com...]

[Link: rice2008.com...]

[Link: draftcondi.us...]

[Link: condoleezzaforpresident.com...]

George, take out Iran now. You have the political capital. Let's go. Let Condi clean up the mess. Yeeesss! Let's go now, George!

156 Mr Pol  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:25:22pm

#152 Craig Abu Al-Boo-Boo

According to the stories I've read, the soldiers shot at the engine block of the car.

They probably shot once, and a warning shot at that. The clueless driver who was speeing with his head out of the car and shouting 'we're italians' instead of stopping soiled his pants and lost control of the car, and the rest is history.

157 Fenway_Nation  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:25:44pm

Given the choice between facing this phantom 'barrage' of 300-400 rounds from the Yanqui imperialist opressors who were obviously out to silence the truthful and honest sign-whore-a Sgrena and getting a ride home with Teddy Kennedy as the designated driver, I think my odds of survival would be better driving into this 'barrage'.

158 Baldy  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:25:53pm
159 CowardKerry  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:27:07pm

148

a 25 mm shell is more than capable of stopping a car... and in some cases tanks if they are using depleted uranium armour piercing rounds. Like I said, something is rotten in denmark.

160 eeevil conservative  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:27:33pm

I am amazed at how the AP is a "legitimate" news source and yet LGF is not (according to Google).

This is the epitome of disgusting propaganda

GO CHARLES!

Keep exposing their aiding and abetting of LIES!

161 Iron Fist[deleted]  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:27:49pm
162 Nancy  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:29:17pm

138 CowardKerry

I just knew that not all body bullet wounds were bloody.

Wasn't sure of head wounds.

I had more damage on my car after a deer ran into me than that car alledgedly riddled with 300-400 bullets.

163 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:29:21pm

Yeesh, they could have least put those "bullet hole" stickers you see yahoos stick on their cars onto it before they left for the checkpoint.

164 Mr Pol  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:29:34pm

#161 Iron Fist

In Fwance, I'm carrying a .22 and a push dagger... I'd say we agree :-)

165 southernborn  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:29:43pm

I REPEAT FROM ANOTHER POST>>SOMETHING IN THE WOODPILE...

166 Beagle  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:29:56pm

#153 Egfrow

That's the car from which our plastic commando was captured. Watch your picture hit the news wires. It wouldn't surprise me.

You forgot to put an upside down smiley face with X eyes in the driver's seat for verisimillitude.

167 gymnast  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:29:58pm

#153, egfrow. Now that looks a lot more like the car that the guy who does my yardwork drives. What the hell was Heyzoos doin' in Bagdad

168 JammieWearingFool  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:30:06pm

158,

And what was the MPG on that baby?

Cool "Restored Death Shirt"

169 Final Historian  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:31:12pm

#153 Egfrow

The photoshopping wasn't bad, but could use a little work.

170 Globular Cluster  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:31:23pm
Y'know, I'm still not 100% positive this is the car involved in the incident. We're relying entirely on this AP video report, but the way the report is worded, they never actually specifically say "This is her car." They just refer to her car, and simultaneously show the video of a car, without unequivacally stating that it is the car in question.

Affirmative. It's the reason I'm a bit subdued about commenting on the image. I haven't been able to find a single photo in AP. Reuters or other sources of the car, other than the one in this thread.

171 Iron Fist[deleted]  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:31:28pm
172 zombie  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:31:40pm

#136 cardiacmont:

LOL! Perfect.

173 Totally Berserk  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:31:55pm

Lying commies really piss me off.

Who in their right mind would believe a commie these days, anyway? ... ?

D'oh! I think I just answered my own question. Nevermind...

174 Beagle  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:31:58pm

I'm not exactly a marksman, but if a car was driving towards me inside 100 yards I could put 80% of the rounds in the car. A car is a HUGE target for a rifle if you know how to aim.

175 Egfrow  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:32:37pm

#169 Final Historian

Thanks. It's all I could muster up in about 10 minutes/

176 wtc394  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:33:38pm
Ha. Scew all of you infidels. I have found the real picture of the car. This proves that the Amerikans have tried to kill them all

Now I know that can't be the car in question, I saw that exact same vehicle parked just off the Ben Frankiln bridge in Camden. I think you may have your war zones confused.

177 CowardKerry  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:34:18pm

The truth will come out soon enough. Then be prepared for the Bush-hitler and Dumsfeld rants from the kooky left screaming cover-up..

178 JammieWearingFool  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:34:19pm
#153 Egfrow,

Pssst. You forgot the flames. The car should be in flames. You might want to add a few dead babies, too. Just to create the proper atmosphere.

Jus' sayin'

Perhaps also some sanctimonious bumperstickers.

179 .45ACP  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:34:55pm

of course, the question hasn't been raised by the MSM that if this marxist moron wasn't out there runnin' around in the first place, there wouldn't have been an abduction(? hmmm...), ransom paid(?), and a person killed.

180 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:34:57pm

Occam's Razor:

Sgrena and the driver killed Calapari after they left the exchange point, then blundered into the checkpoint before they could get rid of the body.

181 Baldy  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:34:57pm

Here's What 160 Bullet Holes Look Like (Side View Bonnie & Clyde's Car) Look at this it is Swiss cheese, AND it was a solidly-built car, not like that CommieMobile.

182 zombie  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:34:58pm

#153 Egfrow:

$20 says your Photoshop is so good that it ends up on a moonbat site as "evidence" within 24 hours.

183 Rayra[deleted]  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:35:24pm
184 gymnast  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:35:47pm

#164, Mr Pol. The boys at the Italian social club on Chicagos West side alway preferred a 22 short to the pareital-occipital area from a range of about 0 inches.

185 Totally Berserk  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:36:08pm

Starring Steve Martin as The Commie Who Knew Too Much.

186 Robert Crawford  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:36:15pm

#158 -- Farther down that page is a pic of the shirt Clyde was wearing. Quite a few bullet holes, eh? Hard to believe "300 to 400" rounds could go through a car and only one hit any of the THREE occupants, when half that many into a car with two people hit both of them dozens of times.

187 Goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:36:48pm

Shiplord Kirel

I think so, too--or at least something along those lines.

188 Doggy  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:37:12pm

#26 kattt parking? LOL

189 DP111  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:38:14pm

in NI, a car full of teenage joyriders went through a checkpoint. Just one soldier opened fire on the receding car. If I remember right, three teenagers died and the car resembled swiss cheese.

It is unbelievable that a car coming towards a checpoint, and not indicatating to stop, so should be so inscathed. Something is wrong here. The italian reporter is lying or US troops are incompetant beyond belief - ie they cant riddle a potential suicide car bomb coming towards them? Unbelievable.

190 [Engineer]  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:38:55pm

I thought Baghdad was under a curfew. A quick look at Google show that a curfew was setup in November, but I couldn't find if it is still in effect.
If this moonbat was violating curfew, she is very lucky that she is alive.

191 Rayra[deleted]  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:38:58pm
192 Mr Pol  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:39:05pm

#184 gymnast

The boys at the Italian social club on Chicagos West side alway preferred a 22 short to the pareital-occipital area from a range of about 0 inches.

At that short a range I'd use a knife... less noisy and not as messy.

193 BigBrother  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:39:53pm

These blast points - too accurate for Sand People. Only Imperial stormtroopers are so precise.

194 gymnast  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:41:57pm

#192, Mr. Pol. Indeed, the medium is the message.

195 7000 romaine  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:42:45pm

this seems like a vincent vega accident--was samuel l. jackson driving?

196 Bubble Girl  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:43:17pm

It is a War... bad, very bad shit happens... Let them make hay about it, it will fade and recede in the very near future. Our guys are over there right now, in harm's way, getting injured or dying. If the Italians want to bitch about it, I know I don't give a flying fuck about what happened to her, and some pity for the man who died, rescuing her sorry ass..

Period.

197 It's Miss Donna V. to you  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:43:24pm

If 300-400 rounds were fired into that car, I'm concerned about the ammo our troops are being issued. They're apparently equipped with bullets made out of marshmallows.

198 FabioC.  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:43:25pm

Another important question is, why the MSM does not show us a juicy, damning picture of a bullet-riddled car?

It's difficult to think that the troops in Iraq could keep all the prying eyes away from it.

199 Dances With Typos  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:43:39pm

Someone is full of crap.
If that is not Sgrena's car, then AP is lying.
If that is Sgrena's car, then she is lying.
Personally, I vote for both of them lying.

200 Dave the.....  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:44:06pm

#143 on Rudy the Zionist...

Boshchwitz is a great guy. Good solid businessman conservative but really low key. Prefers to get the job down instead of going out and grandstanding.

Unfortunetely he lost two elections to the little socialist Wellstone due to that. In my unprofessional opinion, he ran two of the worst campaigns I've seen.

There was some controversey about a letter sent by his campaign the week before the election to Twin Cities Jews dealing with the idea that Wellstone isn't a practicing Hebrew-American. That probably cost him the election.

That seat will remain Jewish (most likely) as it looks like Al Franken will be moving to Minnesota to run against Norm Coleman in 2006.

Goofy Al made an appearence last week at the Dem caucus and had a letter to the editor in todays Saint Paul paper ripping on Norm.

201 Final Historian  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:44:48pm
#192 Mr Pol 3/6/2005 02:39PM PST

#184 gymnast

The boys at the Italian social club on Chicagos West side alway preferred a 22 short to the pareital-occipital area from a range of about 0 inches.

At that short a range I'd use a knife... less noisy and not as messy.

I don't know about less messy, but if you stab someone in the kidney the pain is so great that they lose consciousness. So certainly quiet.

202 Mr Pol  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:45:46pm

#198 FabioC.

Another important question is, why the MSM does not show us a juicy, damning picture of a bullet-riddled car?

Huh. I think I got it. Those idiots were in the car, with their guns in their hands, safeties off and fingers on the trigger, with the stupid driver shouting 'we're italians' and his head out of the window. A Marine got pissed and kicked the front of the car. One dead, one wounded, one car scrapped.

203 JammieWearingFool  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:47:13pm

Ward Churchill and Maurice Hinchey: meet Sgrena.

204 Mr Pol  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:47:49pm

#201 Final Historian

I don't know about less messy, but if you stab someone in the kidney the pain is so great that they lose consciousness. So certainly quiet.

If you stab someone in the neck from behind, cutting the spine between the 3rd and 4th vertebrae, death is instantaneous and there's no blood. It does require some strength, though.

205 BananaRepublican  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:47:55pm

I'm with Joe Bananas (no relation) and .45ACP

Some nitwit goes and gets their butt in a jam doing something stupid in a dangerous place, and then some professional cop/soldier/coastie/rescuer gets killed trying to save their worthless hide. It's a shame the agent got killed rescuing this POS.

206 FabioC.  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:47:57pm

#202 Mr Pol

That may be the case. It seems you have some experience in the field to support your assertions. Signing off now.

207 CowardKerry  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:48:25pm

The marines were pissed, they shot up the car making a fazzoli's run. "damn it i wanted peppery chicken alfredo" !
Sorry couldn't resist.

208 rednaxela  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:49:09pm

OT

Mar 4, 2005
Democratic National Committee Announces Ohio Election Review Team


I suppose the DNC isn't familiar with the term move on.

[Link: www.democrats.org...]

209 Bubble Girl  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:50:20pm

Just read a article on a Pumpkin Cannon, or catapult... it can chunk a pumpkin 4,000 ft. Image one hitting that car, it would be 100x that damage in that picture, with pumpkin rind all over the place... maybe our military needs to put a bit of color in the shells. performance art of bullets...

210 BananaRepublican  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:50:38pm

and I'm with with Bubble Girl

211 Frank IBC  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:50:50pm

Hate to be Devils Advocate, but couldn't the bullet holes all be on the driver's side, which is not seen in this photo? I note that in Bonnie and Clyde's death car, the bullet holes were fairly concentrated in a small area.

On the other hand, I'm a bit confused by the damage to the front end. It doesn't look "raw", it looks like something that happened some time ago - note the uniformity of the dirt.

But between the car, the "300 bullets", the survivors...something JUST DOESN'T ADD UP.

212 Iron Fist[deleted]  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:52:21pm
213 CowardKerry  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:52:24pm

#209

Ha ha or like in kelly's hero's where they were firing paint rounds at the german tiger tanks.

214 Dave the.....  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:52:47pm

#208

Meanwhile the Republicans are forming a review team to analyize what really happened in Illinois in the 1960 election. And while we're at it, let's open up 1984 again. I think Reagan really won Minnesota, therefore he took all 50 states.
(all sarc)

I remember hearing this line last year.."it's amazing that an organization that is obsessed with the 2000 election is calling itself 'MoveOn'".

215 Embermage  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:53:27pm

#209 BubbleGirl

That's Paint!

/Clint Eastwood

216 BenJeremy  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:53:40pm

This just lends MORE credence to my increasing belief (at first, I considered it only a wild stab of a theory) that the agent was MURDERED by Sgrena or one of her associates before the whole incident even took place.

The other passengers were injured when the car crashed to a stop, and unless somebody fired into the window from the side, specifically and extremely accurately (because they only seemed to have taken out one window, unless it's merely rolled down).

I see absolutely no indications that this vehicle took more than a handful of shots in the grill.


So with this picture, it seems even more likely, however wild, that this communist anti-American reporter staged an abduction to force a ransom payment from her government to the terrorists (aiding in their cause to fight the legitimate, elected government of Iraq), and the dead Italian SS agent may have witnessed something during the exchange. The Iraqi driver probably knew the checkpoint would only fire to disable the vehicle, and charged the checkpoint to cover the murder and, as a "double bonus" smear the military.

217 sandspur  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:53:59pm

Just got to the thread, so pardon if anyone has posted this already

Here is a linky to a picture of the other side of the car. No bullet holes that I can tell.

218 richard mcenroe  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:54:20pm

Wow. Driven through a hail of fire without taking a round of damage. You know who this car belongs to, don't you?

This is John Kerry's Swift car...

219 hershel  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:54:31pm

Just remember folks, she is a freakin' COMMUNIST (as others have pointed out here) - their official policy for a hundred years has been to subordinate the truth to propaganda. I know I'm mostly preaching to the choir here, but just in case anyone wavers and thinks maybe it was a "misunderstanding" ...

220 Ward Cleaver  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:54:51pm

#31, #137

A few years ago, Car And Driver did a story about disabling a car using a gun (they used an old Caprice), and they found that the only sure-fire way to stop a car from running was to shoot the distributor, assuming the car has a distributor-type ignition (their old Capric did), and assuming you can hit it.

221 rednaxela  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:54:59pm

#211 Frank IBC

Hate to be Devils Advocate, but couldn't the bullet holes all be on the driver's side, which is not seen in this photo?


How exactly does one “riddle” a car with bullets, yet leave the windshield unbroken?

222 Bubble Girl  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:55:19pm

FrankIBC @211

Frank

The caliber of the bullets used by the military would go through the left side and tear out the right along with the front and back, it would be swiss cheese and she would be dead. Period.

Along with everyone else in the car...

223 susanita  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:55:28pm

#212 Iron Fist and #214 Mr Pol

Ugh.
I guess I am glad that someone knows what to do. And I'm glad youre on my side.

But that is really grisly.

224 azul93gt  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:55:31pm

I hope that the US military authorities are able to thoroughly investigate this whole incident. It stinks to high heaven as it is being reported now. Even the lady reporter's superficial wound seems a tad suspect to me at this time.

We may want to take it easy on the number of rounds fired. All her allegations in regard to the number of rounds fired and type of weapons used proves is that she is prone to wild speculation.

225 FriarsTale  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:55:33pm

well, for what it's worth, Fox has a report on the questions from the whole thing
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

But who can trust far right unfair unbalanced Fox, mouthpiece of Bush, capitalist lapdog, or is it imperialist running dog, or fata** bit*h?
sumfin' like that

226 Mr Pol  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:56:28pm

#212 Iron Fist

I was taught to go in through the side of the neck (below the layrnex and in front of the spine), and cut out through the front. Messier, but still quite and effective. And you don't have to worry about sliding off bone :-)

That's how I was taught, too - and with a K-Bar, a Bowie or a Randall, that's the way to do it. However with a push dagger you don't really care about sliding off bone... especially not in the back of the neck.

227 Bubble Girl  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:56:47pm
#218

richard mcenroe  3/6/2005 02:54PM PST

Wow. Driven through a hail of fire without taking a round of damage. You know who this car belongs to, don't you?


This is John Kerry's Swift car...

WOW, excellent... lol

The holes are so small because they are RICE PELLETS...

228 Mr Pol  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:57:13pm

#212 Iron Fist

Oh, by the way - it's definitely NOT quiet. The gargling noise is very loud.

229 Ed from Ohio  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:59:23pm

maybe they were magic bullets from John Kerry

230 Nancy  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:59:50pm

Here's a review of what has been stated in the press thus far.

The Italian government said it was the U.S. military that fired on the vehicle. A U.S. military spokesman confirmed the incident but wouldn't say who fired the shots. [Link: www.bloomberg.com...]

3 Persons: American Version: "When the driver didn't stop, the soldiers shot into the engine block, which stopped the vehicle, killing one and wounding two others," the statement added. [Link: www.reuters.com...]

Her driver was also injured in the shooting. [Link: www.bloomberg.com...]

Less than a kilometre (from airport) there was shooting. The driver began screaming that we were Italian, 'We're Italian! We're Italian!' [Link: www.abc.net.au...]

Sgrena told Rome prosecutors that the shots didn't come from soldiers standing at a checkpoint. "[Link: www.bloomberg.com...]

Giuliana Sgrena tells how US troops fired 300 -400 shots into her unmarked car with local plates -[Link: news.independent.co.uk...]

BOYFRIEND Pier Scarpolo -The shooting late Friday was witnessed by Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi's office which was on the phone with one of the secret service agents, said Scolari. "Then the US military silenced the cellphones," he charged.[Link: www.uruknet.info...]

"They were 700 meters (yards) from the airport, which means that they had passed all checkpoints."[Link: www.uruknet.info...]

4 Persons: Italian military officials said two other agents were wounded but U.S. officials said it was only one.
[Link: www.canada.com...]

ALSO at least 4: The ANSA news agency said two other Italian secret service agents were wounded. It is not known if they returned fire.
[Link: www.pacific.net.sg...]
[Link: 64.233.167.104...]

I didn't save the link but I did see earlier today that the driver was an Italian secret agent. Whether it was the deceased or an additional agent --I don't know. I do know that ONE of the agents was talking on the cell phone when the shooting began.
It is also reported that ONE of the persons refused medical treatment.

231 Mr Pol  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 12:59:57pm

#223 susanita

I guess I shouldn't have said anything about the gargling noise... ;-)

232 CowardKerry  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:00:10pm

Ok, enough of the throat slashing huh? Definatly ot.

233 Goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:00:22pm

Thank goodness for Fox.

234 Embermage  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:03:31pm

# 231 Mr. Pol

Yeah... I really didn't want to know. I don't expect to ever have to use a knife in that manner. I hope.

235 Ed from Ohio  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:03:40pm

new headline should read

magic car has new "star trek" forcefield that causes bullets to bounce off harmlessly

236 Bubble Girl  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:04:07pm

Mr Pol
Iron Fist

You guys, this is much easier...

The drug, pancuronium bromide, is banned in some states for use in putting down pets and strongly discouraged by the American Veterinary Medical Association with a warning that if used without perfect anaesthesia an animal "may perceive pain and distress after it is immobilised".

In a boost for the abolitionists, a judge in Tennessee, Ellen Hobbs-Lyle, has ruled that the drug's use "has no legitimate purpose".

Lawyers for Abu-Ali Abdur'Rahman, a Tennessee death row inmate, asked the judge to rule on the legality of using pancuronium bromide in his case. While the judge allowed the drug's use, she found that, when the relaxant is used, "the subject gives all the appearances of a serene expiration when actually the subject is feeling and perceiving the excruciatingly painful ordeal of death by lethal injection".

237 Goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:04:08pm

Ah, now I understand! This is really about CNN's credibility, notthe the US military's:

"Since the invasion of Iraq two years ago, the US military has undertaken several investigations into what it has described as the accidental killings of foreign reporters and media workers. Some big news organisations remain dissatisfied with the explanations.

In her account in Il Manifesto, Ms Sgrena also questioned whether the US had sought to kill her, a view that was ridiculed by Italian intelligence, according to Corriere della Sera, the country's leading paper."

[Link: news.ft.com...]

238 Iron Fist[deleted]  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:05:01pm
239 Catttt  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:05:01pm

Charles, I just sent you a message (via the thingy on the left) about this. Since you get so many, I wanted to mention it here too.

240 CowardKerry  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:05:02pm

Ed, it could have had a romulan cloaking device. ;-)

241 Dave the.....  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:06:13pm

If I can state the obvious...

If this lady says the US military was trying to kill her, how did they know she was in the car?

242 Baldy  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:06:19pm

Japanese Diplomats' Car Riddled with Bullets

The bullets fired at a Toyota Land Cruiser carrying two Japanese diplomats ambushed in Iraq last November were shot from a height of about 1 meter The machineguns mounted on U.S. military vehicles are about 2 meters from the ground.

This has a picture of a car with "only" 36 bullet holes.

243 pookleblinky  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:07:13pm

Now, the Pookleblinky will contribute his expertise in the topic of throat-slitting.

Don't click on that link unless you don't know what you will not see. I warned you.

244 Frank IBC  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:07:31pm
Writing in Italy's Il Manifesto newspaper, Sgrena said her kidnappers had warned her to pay attention once she was freed, because the U.S. wanted her dead.

Yeah, should have listened to those kidnappers. They're obviously interested in your welfare.

245 CowardKerry  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:07:37pm

Goddess, yeah the media never lies...Barf.

246 Baldy  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:08:34pm

Maybe Luigi can tell us what the Italian media is saying about this. (IIRC, he is Italian)

247 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:08:40pm

Who are you going to trust, the MSM or your LYING EYES?

248 Dov  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:09:10pm

Pookleblinky

Now i'll have nightmares all night

249 Embermage  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:09:35pm

Pookleblinky... That was sadistically evil. Have you no shame? No sense of decency? My eyes are still burning.

250 andrew2  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:11:03pm

OT

An letter to Geert Wilders from Lawrence Auster:


A letter to Geert Wilders

Geert Wilders is the Dutch politician who has been threatened with beheading by Moslems and is currently under 24 hour police protection, and sleeping in prisons or military bases. I sent this e-mail to him through his website:

Dear Mr. Wilders,

I want to express my support for you, both in your stand against Moslem immigration and in your difficult personal situation.

I have been writing about the immigration problem in the United States for the last 15 years. My booklet, "The Path to National Suicide: An Essay on Immigration and Multiculturalism," published in 1990, represented the first sustained criticism of the post 1965 immigration from the point of view of its cultural effects on America, particularly in feeding multiculturalism.

I read a few weeks ago that you had met with neoconservatives in the United States. I just want to tell you that the neoconservatives have been among the leading advocates of mass non-European immigration. They passionately oppose any attempt to get controls on immigration. They see America not as a concrete country, but as an "idea" of democracy and equality, from which it follows that America must be equally open to everyone in the world, including, of course, Moslems. That your life is in danger now is due to the kind of open immigration from the non-European world that the neoconservatives support.

The nations of the West will not retain their freedom and will not survive unless they give up this idea of total universalism and rediscover themselves as particular nations, and as part of a particular civilization. But the neoconservatives oppose all this. They want a single world, united by a single democratic idea, with open borders between all countries.

My own position on Moslem extremism and terrorism in the West is that there is no solution, short of stopping all Moslem immigration and then reversing the direction. Obviously, all Moslems cannot be removed at once. However, by (1) stopping all further Moslem immigration, (2) cracking down on illegal aliens, (3) deporting all Moslems who support jihadism, and (4) closing all extremist Mosques, we could create a different atmosphere in which Moslems would no longer feel so welcome in the West and lots of them would start to leave voluntarily. The result would be a NET OUT-MIGRATION of Moslems. Instead of their numbers (and power) getting steadily greater, their numbers would be getting steadily less. The West would start to grow stronger, and the Moslems weaker. That would be the opposite of what we have now, in which the Moslems are getting steadily stronger, and we are getting weaker.

I have developed these ideas in two articles published at FrontPage Magazine, one of the leading conservative websites in the United States:

How to Defeat Jihad in America
The Search For Moderate islam

What has happened to you is a microcosm of the future of the entire West, unless we start to remove Moslems from the West. There is no other answer.

God protect you and be with you.

Lawrence Auster

251 Mr Pol  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:11:13pm

#238 Iron Fist

One of those things I've practiced a thousand times, but never done. I'll remember that.

Final Historian in #201 is absolutely correct, stab the kidneys and you'll avoid all noise. Of course, a lot depends on the kind of knife you use... To go for the kidneys you're better off with a Fairbairn, or a Randall #1. OTOH Bowies and K-Bar are really shitty blades.

252 susanita  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:11:31pm

Pooklyblinky,

And Here I was complaining to poor Iron Fist.

Youre a sick SOB.

253 Iron Fist[deleted]  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:11:58pm
254 rednaxela  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:12:04pm

Isn't this the car of choice for suicide bombers?

255 BenJeremy  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:12:07pm

Um, guys...


That's NOT the vehicle that ran the roadblock.

It's the vehicle she was "kidnapped" from.


Please read, and somebody, please get us a photo of the REAL THING.

256 rightasrain  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:13:12pm

You guys should have had the strength to resist looking at the photo that Pookleblinky put up.

Have you no sense of restraint?!?

Geesh.

P.S. Good one, pookleblinky. :)

257 Dov  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:14:11pm

# 255

BenJeremy

Now that proves it's a conspiracy, she even got the same car to get back in loL

258 rightasrain  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:14:29pm

#255 BenJeremy

Please read, and somebody, please get us a photo of the REAL THING.

Ooops. :(

259 Frank IBC  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:15:25pm

I noticed that at least one of the articles says that the driver was one of the survivors. Things getting sillier and sillier...

260 Catttt  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:15:34pm

I located a pic of this same car from Feb 4th, in Yahoo pics.
[Link: us.news2.yimg.com...]
[Link: story.news.yahoo.com...]
The video implies this is the airport car, but the Feb 4 pic looks the same to me. Charles, I sent you the links.

261 hithere  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:16:02pm

#208

Donna Brazile says:

We are putting the efforts and resources into this project because it is vital that we find out what went wrong, how we can fix it, and restore the faith of the American people in our voting system.

Exactly what does Donna mean by "how we can fix it"?
The Dems know perfectly well how to fix elections:
Let felons vote.
Let dead people vote.
Let people register and vote in multiple locations/states.
Let dozens of absentee voters reside at the same address.
Mail absentee voters too late for the military votes to be counted.
Toss out military ballots for minor technicalities.
Get judges to keep the polls open later in Dem areas.
Find 'lost' ballots in unsecured janitorial closets.
etc,

262 Nancy  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:17:19pm

From Friar's Tale link to Fox you can add the 35 minute timeframe this all occurred in:

Officials said Sgrena was with her rescuers by 8:20 p.m

By 8:55 p.m., according to a statement from the U.S. 3rd Infantry Division "U.S. soldiers killed one civilian and wounded two others when their vehicle traveling at high speeds refused to stop at a check point."

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

The Fox article has an even more interesting mention and that is the agents negotiating were staying at the US Military base just outside of the airport. So the US Military was obviously cooperating so they could negotiate her release.

263 pookleblinky  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:18:17pm

#256

Thanks. To see something truly nightmarish, look this lone gunman as he kills random pigeons.

264 foreign devil  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:19:03pm

Charles: I hope you have a 'screen capture' of that picture; it's no longer available and I'm just afraid when some of the Italian people start looking at the car they're gonna ask the same questions we're asking--where's the bullet holes if they fired 300 to 400 rounds INTO THE ENGINE BLOCK!

The car should be riddled with bullet holes. It's not; I'm afraid they'll try to lose the car and the pictures so that their precious journalist isn't embarrassed by her own lies!

265 Robert Crawford  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:19:29pm

BenJeremy -- That's bizarre. For a story about a car running a checkpoint, the press decided to use pictures of a completely different car.

Yeesh.

266 Frank IBC  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:20:08pm
267 Nancy  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:20:50pm

260 Cattt

I think you are right. It certainly does look like the car she was abducted from in the Feb. 4th photo.

268 Embermage  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:21:00pm

# 263 Pookleblinky

Beautiful. I love that picture. But tell me... is this the lost picture of Lee Harvey Oswald's assistant?

269 Tinker  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:21:01pm

A courageous man died protecting her. I give him credit for his heroism - damned straight! BUT...

As for her, having copped the "Stockholm Syndrome"/"I've always been on side of you butchers" strategy to get released - she's a commie weasal. And a liar. Cold hard fact: if 400 rounds had hit her car, there would not be enough pieces of her left to fill a paint can and no one would be alive in that car.

Put yourself in the Italian rescuers' position: euphoric, happy, laughing, and maybe too heavy on the accelerator having passed the other checkpoints. And you approach a checkpoint too fast. A sad, awful SNAFU on somebody's part, maybe theirs, maybe ours. Let's see who's at fault after an honest investigation.

But this can also be a test of the resolve of the Italians' support for the war. I hope they rise to the challenge, shrug it off, and join us in kicking butt.

270 Dov  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:21:11pm

Pookleblinky

Have you no shame. The kids might see that and it would tear them apart forever

271 Frank IBC  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:22:37pm
272 suntory_boss  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:22:45pm

Just being objective here, how do we know that's a pic of the car? Why is there graffiti in english in the background?

273 rednaxela  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:23:56pm

#250 andrew2

a different atmosphere in which Moslems would no longer feel so welcome in the West and lots of them would start to leave voluntarily.


BWAHAHAA!

274 Catttt  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:24:10pm

I'm still looking for the airport car - nada. Are the photogs in MSM/Iraq too busy to get new pictures? Maybe that's why they ran the old pic. Lazy people.

275 gymnast  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:24:21pm

#260, cattt. Hmmm, could video cameras have the same sort of problems as typefonts? These videos were obviously not made with an IBM selectric but the stills seem to be shot on fujifilm and processed with technology that was not present at the time of the shooting. That makes it perfectly clear to me.

276 Frank IBC  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:24:46pm

#260 Cattt -

Same car. Same guy, too. (See #7 Zombie's link.)

277 Catttt  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:25:14pm

#272 suntory_boss

I hope you're joking. That's an AP logo/watermark.

278 jlfintx  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:25:23pm

Well, it is simple. All the bullets hit the right rear tire and bounced off. Gee you guys have no imagination!

279 jlfintx  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:25:47pm

Make that left rear tire/

280 Terrye  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:26:12pm

All I can say is I hope this silly woman stays in Italy where she belongs and nobody else has to die on her account.

It could be there was just a eff up and the guys in the car did not think they had to stop and the soldiers thought they had to make them.

The thing I find the most troubling is the dead agent. Sgrena just says he slumped against her. She does not say he was hauled out of the car and executed with a bullet to the head.

And then of course there is the other agent, who was probably driving. Will he be truthful? Has he said anything? He might be in big trouble here.

As for the soldiers either they were doing just what they said they were doing or [snicker] they were trying to kill the big bad oh so important commie because they were told to? Or are we supposed to believe that they just got a hair up their butts to assinate someone they did not even know was in the car?

I just can't make this work out.

It sounds like a royal eff up and everybody will have a different version of events.

The other day some silly girl rear ended me when I pulled over and stopped to let an ambulance go by. I drive a buick, her car looked about like that picture.

281 Catttt  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:26:28pm

75 gymnast

Lol. And as usual, the MSM is clear as mud.

282 cardiacmont  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:28:15pm

#172 zombie

Thanks!

I daresay it will never end up popular or clever enough to end up in your dictionary. (Hopefully this whole topic will fade into oblivion soon as the moonbats discover they once again are on the wrong side of history and the facts)

283 snuss  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:28:50pm

Sgrena claims that US troops fired between 300 and 400 rounds at the car from “an armored vehicle.”

Where are all the bullet holes, Americans GI’s are straight shooters and should have at least 350 hits on the car?

284 levi from queens  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:29:56pm

Per Fox (see comment 225 for link), the U.S. army has not yet made the car accessible to the press. It seems pretty clear that since AP couldn't get the relevant car, they just used another one -- the one she was kidnapped from.

Quote:

When The Associated Press in Baghdad asked the U.S. military to see the vehicle on Saturday, the military said it didn't know where it was.

Here's the linik so you don't have to scroll up to 225.

285 Rayra[deleted]  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:30:08pm
286 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:30:30pm
287 rednaxela  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:31:05pm

Let me get this straight.
The Associated Press is using video of the Feb 4 "kidnap" car and identifying it as footage of the March 4 "riddled with bullet holes" car?

288 Frank IBC  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:32:05pm

Hmmm...the poster in the photos in #260 Cattt's link says "Jama'ah an-Nahiyhun" or something similar.

289 Lady of Shalott (ylreveb)  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:32:29pm

Syrian troop withdrawal starts tomorrow! on NBC now.

They're also doing a piece on the Commie reporter beeyatch.

290 erp  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:32:37pm

I think she and her commie amici was trying to prove that Eason Jordan was right and that our military are targeting journalists. To that end, they shot the dirver and let the car slam into the check point.

She's toast.

291 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:33:25pm

Martin Truex Junior, perhaps best ever stock car driver from the state of New jersey, has won the premiere Motorola Telcel Mexico 200 presentada por BanaMex.

Happy Harvick in the #21 RCR Monte Carlo second.

Boris Said and Adrian Fernandez were both sent to the back on a ticky tack call for pitting on caution before pit road was open, but Siad made it back to fifth, and Fernandez finished 10th, and was alos the best finishing of the pilotos de Mexico.

Rusty Wallace came in 6th.

292 Lady of Shalott (ylreveb)  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:33:40pm

"the Bush admin's aggressive push for change" is driving events in the ME--NBC

293 foreign devil  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:33:47pm

pookleblinky:

My cat don't need no darn' gun to get a pigeon; she just gets those six toes on each foot (Maine Coon) and goes doolally and voila! Dead birdies. Kill mousie!

294 Lady of Shalott (ylreveb)  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:34:06pm

now they're giving Newsweak's cover story a plug

295 D. Edgren (the Merciless Infidel)  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:34:27pm

Gah Damn!

Them Army marksmen (markspersons...whatever).

They are good. 300-400 bullets in the same 2-3 holes...I mean, that's some fine shootin'.

[heavy irony switch...OFF]

I love the Italians. Lived there for several years in the 80s. Their Commie journalists, though...what lying balls of crap they were then...and apparently still are today.

My heart goes out to the Italian agent who gave his (her?) life to rescue this worthless piece of shit.


D. Edgren

296 Catttt  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:35:14pm

Quote from Ms. Sgrena re were they speeding:

Asked if the car was going too fast when the US troops opened fire, she said: "We weren't going particularly fast given that type of situation."

What the heck does that mean? Probably it means - well, yeah.

297 Lady of Shalott (ylreveb)  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:35:24pm

we've seen elections all over the place in the last few months

the elections in iraq seemed to break open the whole logjam

maybe the people see the chance to get rid of the dictators who've been oppressing them

--all from an NBC report. Amazing! ! !

298 Goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:35:50pm

Terrye

I do not see how it could have been our soldiers' mistake.

The only way I can see that it would be our fault is if the checkpoint had been alerted in advance to allow the car through but instead fired on it. Even Ms. Sgnerna doesn't try that one.

299 Frank IBC  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:37:25pm

Hmmm...I'm noticing that the photos at the top (and in #7 Zombie) show the same car, the same guy, but are in slightly different locations.

In the first set, it is on pavement, and there is a curb and a telephone pole or streelamp next to it. In the second set, there is no curb or telephone pole, and the area is muddy, and it is a differnent time of day.

300 Tinker  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:37:59pm

Wait a minute! She's saying that we were intentionally trying to assassinate her?!?! She's got a inordinately high sense of self esteem to think we rate whatever she says so highly that we'd bump off the commie ditz so that she wouldn't talk about what...? That she didn't like the war? That she hated the U.S.? Hey, we've seen that crap come and pass us by without effect. She rates herself way too highly.

The Left is descendng into severe irrelevance, thank God.

301 Charles  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:38:04pm

Please see the latest update above, and thanks to Cattt for alerting me about it.

302 Frank IBC  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:38:06pm

#296 Cattt -

Good catch!

303 Lady of Shalott (ylreveb)  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:38:49pm

now the sgrena report

will they say she's communist?

nope, not yet

blaming our guys for the agent's death

[how can you shoot a man in the head and not crack the windshield?] /spit

YAY! theymentioned "the communist "il manifesto'"

monumental incompetence on the part of the ITALIANS

holy cow; NBC is doing a balanced report so far

Italian gov. announced "the military mission MUST carry on."

Berlusconi, we Love You!

304 Lady of Shalott (ylreveb)  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:39:29pm

zombie

the nbc report, at least, was actually fair!

"wonders never cease"

the worm turns...

305 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:39:36pm
306 Ed from Ohio  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:40:22pm

someone has to call this bitch on her lies

307 Frank IBC  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:40:47pm

Well, couldn't they have used the same car both days? :)

308 rednaxela  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:40:57pm

#296 Cattt

"We weren't going particularly fast given that type of situation."


Typical leftist rhetorical device, by using the type of situation qualification, she's basically covering all the bases in case the truth comes out.

309 foreign devil  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:41:30pm

#286 song_and_dance_man:

...in other words, a well-rounded diet!

310 Terrye  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:41:31pm

Maybe they used her car.

And they might have been working with the Americans, but the troops would still not have known who was in the car. For all they know a terrorist with a bomb vest could have gotten in with them and forced the driver to go to the airport. It was night, it was raining, they could not see who was and wasn't in the car.

How do they work these exchanges anyway? How can the terrorists be sure they would not be shot when they turned the victim over?

311 Ed from Ohio  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:41:58pm

IM FURIOUS!

312 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:42:53pm
313 Alone in NY  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:43:40pm

I just heard audio of Sgrena on the news. She claims a US "tank" fired continuously at her car...without warning.

What a crock.

314 Nancy  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:44:33pm

The Italians are definitely saying there were 4 people. The US is only claiming that ONE other person was injured whereas the Italians are saying that the 4th person was injured but refused treatment.

Berlusconi said Sgrena had shrapnel in her left shoulder, and U.S. military officials said she was taken to a military hospital. One agent was seriously wounded, and the other was shot in the leg and refused to go to a hospital, Italian news agencies reported.Berlusconi said the two other people in the car contacted his office after the incident.
[Link: edition.cnn.com...]

I haven't visually imagined this one yet.

The bullet entered somewhere in the back of his head, exited just above his left ear --temple area --and the shrapnel from that wounded her left shoulder.

315 piglet  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:44:52pm

Perhaps if the media would use details, such as " a 1985 pink Trabant Sedan" it would make fact checking easier. But this isn't really about the truth is it?

316 wtc394  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:45:03pm
Martin Truex Junior, perhaps best ever stock car driver from the state of New jersey

bet he still can't keep up on the turnpike...

317 Ed from Ohio  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:45:11pm

if a us tank fired on that car ther ewould be nothing left

318 Jheka  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:45:18pm

First she said that there were lights from the Americans ... then she said there were no lights ... then she said that there was a rain of bullets from a tank ...

Seems to me that some warning shots bounced the wrong way. A "rain" or an "avalanche" of bullets from a tank or an APC at close range (she said it was from a tank that was "beside me") would have reduced the car and everyone in it to barely recognizable heaps. There wouldn't have been enough left to tow or bury.

319 rednaxela  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:45:41pm

#307 Frank IBC

Apparently, this is the AP's prop car.

320 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:45:47pm
321 Iron Fist[deleted]  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:46:05pm
322 ajaxlikid  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:46:30pm

OT
***
That was disclosed yesterday:
France and Spain bid to 'legalize' Hamas

This is today's stuff:
Israel accuses French group of helping Hamas

Seems French assholes never take a break when it comes to supporting their terrorist friends...

323 Goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:46:37pm

Alone in NY

Earlier it was from an armored vehicle...

Now wait. If it were so dark and there were no warning light, how did she know it was an armored vehicle or tank, anyway?

If there were in fact lights, her car should have stopped as directed.

In any case, if a tank or "armored vehicle" had fired on her car, she would have much more shrapnel than that which was removed from her shoulder.

324 foreign devil  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:47:10pm

If you are 'shot in the leg' wouldn't a report by a medical person be necessary for the police file? You don't just brush off a bullet wound. Do you?

325 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:47:24pm
326 pookleblinky  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:48:56pm

#313

You should have heard the Italian (translated via my handy Russian-designed Babelfish ripoff):

Then the Americans droppa the echa-bomb. I hid unda a seat an the blasta didn't-a touch a single hair on my head!
327 SkippyMoment  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:49:02pm

Charles,

Thanks again for keeping the story straight. But I ask the same question. Where are all the photo jouralists and reporters that are gloming on to this story in their effort to SHOW the world what the US military allegedly did at this check point?

Surely with all the eyes and ears of the world on this story of yet another haneous act by the 'over zealous' 'trigger happy' US military, can no one produce a single picture of the car she was riding in when it was 'fired upon.'

328 D. Edgren (the Merciless Infidel)  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:49:02pm

Oh, I'm so tired of these "Hate America" newsies.

Fuck 'em. Wrong car...let's find one with the requisite numder of bullet holes...yeah. yeah, that's the ticket!

We must be accurate so long as it puts the United States in the worst possible light. Positive news...well, that's another story.

Fuck 'em. Fuck them all.


D. Edgren

329 Mission Accomplished  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:49:22pm

That silly Italian, the troops would have never been able to touch her had she disguised herself as Osama bin Laden.

330 Frank IBC  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:49:39pm

#325 Song and Dance Man -

Could have been an Armored Personnel Carrier. In the past, the New York Times has labelled APCs and self-propelled artillery as "tanks" in its photos. Idiots.

331 Poitiers-Lepanto  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:50:59pm

Let's say the simple truth.

They have tried to bypass a checkpoint because they had just paid some million dollars to the terrorists to free the commie journalist.

They have made a mistake.
They have paid a high price for it.

Now the leftists try to build a case around this.

Nothing new, the usual leftist crap.

Period.

332 zombie  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:52:33pm
So we apparently have a false alarm here, triggered by a highly misleading AP video. This is not a photo of the car that ran the checkpoint.

Just as I suspected:

#29 zombie  3/6/2005 01:32PM PST

Y'know, I'm still not 100% positive this is the car involved in the incident. We're relying entirely on this AP video report, but the way the report is worded, they never actually specifically say "This is her car."

333 Catttt  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:52:41pm

Sigh. I'm still combing the net looking for any actual detail. All we know is that the multinational forces (the press release does not say US troops) fired on a "vehicle" approaching a Baghdad Airport road (e.g., Ambush Alley) checkpoint at "a high rate of speed" was fired on after hand signals and warning fire failed to stop the vehicle. The military never even said "car," that I can see.

I did find an article from last Wednesday - two Brit troops were killed on this road - guess how?

334 Terrye  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:53:02pm

Goddess#298:

No, she says there was not a checkpoint at all. Just a hail of bullets.

People have also overlooked the fact that she was given medical treatment in a military hospital.

Take it from me guys, a hospital is a great place to kill someone and get away with it.

No, those Americans decided to kill her and then after they shot her and she was still breathing they thought, ah to hell with it.

Monday is the state funeral for the agent, I wonder if the Sgerni will throw herself over his coffin wailing with grief.

What do you want to bet that a month ago he was just a fascist sellout to her?

335 Dave the.....  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:53:04pm
Wait a minute! She's saying that we were intentionally trying to assassinate her?!?! She's got a inordinately high sense of self esteem to think we rate whatever she says so highly that we'd bump off the commie ditz so that she wouldn't talk about what...?


She sounds a little like Dale from King of the Hill.

336 Athos  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:53:05pm

The fact that the video / snap was not of THE car really doesn't change the fact that there are large elements of Sgrena's story that don't hold water.

And, unlike the Koz Kiddies and other left wing blogs / journalists, when a mistake is made on LGF by Charles (and many of the regulars) - it is admitted to.

337 D. Edgren (the Merciless Infidel)  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:53:41pm

Thank you, P-L (#331):

Dead-on as always.


D. Edgren

338 rednaxela  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:54:34pm

#325 song_and_dance_man

Given that she's from Italy, she might be forgiven for confusing a large car with a tank.

339 foreign devil  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:55:42pm

So where's the picture of the car she was actually in this time?

340 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:56:21pm
341 D. Edgren (the Merciless Infidel)  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:56:51pm

No, no, redaxelna...

People from Italy mistake Fiats for cars altogether.


D. Edgren

342 D. Edgren (the Merciless Infidel)  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:58:10pm

(#341)

Sorry 'bout the extra "n" in yr. nic.


D. Edgren

343 Tinker  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:59:07pm

I wonder if the Italians will discount her story base on simple common sense: night-time incident/confusion, "lights" then "no lights", a "tank" then an "armored vehicle", "300-400 bullets" but only one head wound and a leg wound, no bullet-riddled car, etc., etc.. Even the Italians must know that an avowed Communist will lie if the intent is to hurt the U.S.

It's going to be very instructive to see how this plays out in Italy. A test of Roman testicular resolve, so to speak.

344 D. Edgren (the Merciless Infidel)  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:59:32pm

(#341)

Actually, sorry 'bout the "n" in your nic. It wasn't extra, after all.


D. Edgren

345 Catttt  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 1:59:48pm

#339 foreign devil

So where's the picture of the car she was actually in this time?

That's the 64 dollar question. And make that "vehicle." :)

346 JammieWearingFool  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:00:41pm

Maybe the guy sitting in the car can help connect some dots here.

347 Nancy  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:01:14pm

OK --here's what seems like another discrepancy --

Her claim that he threw himself over her to save her life.

Isn't it more plausible that the bullet hit him and he slumped over her with the left side of his head (his wound) hitting her left shoulder (her schrapnel wound)?

When the bullets started wouldn't have have shoved her down to the floor? This was a trained agent, wouldn't that have been his first reaction --to get her down?

If he threw his body across her body so that his head was on her should that would have meant that HER head was exposed to the bullets.

348 D. Edgren (the Merciless Infidel)  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:01:19pm

(#341):

No, it was actually a misplaced "n." Could you get a nic that's easier to spell?


D. Edgren

349 pookleblinky  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:01:22pm

Zombie is precognisant today!

Not in the bad way:


[Read in a Christopher Walken cadence]"You'll buy a cup of coffee at a kosher deli and get a newspaper at the newstand outside. You'll check the time- it will be 5:17. Then, as you're crossing the street- oh no!"

"What?! Am I going to get run over?"

[ditto]"A man in a dark grey suit is going to bump into you, and spill your coffee."

350 eeevil conservative  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:02:50pm

I want to know where the outrage is that the JOURNALIST WAS KIDNAPPED BY THE IRAQI "INSURGENTS"

I wonder if EASON JORDAN will use this incindent to do another attack on the US military...

351 BananaRepublican  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:03:13pm

I've seen a few references to the location of the incident as "checkpoint 504"

352 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:03:15pm
353 JammieWearingFool  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:04:28pm

OT:

Noticed this on Drudge. I wonder who this might be?

FLASH: White House press corps admits its first 'blogger'... Developing...

If it's the WH presscorpse admitting someone, it can't be positive.

354 rednaxela  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:04:29pm

#348 D. Edgren (the Merciless Infidel)

Could you get a nic that's easier to spell?


D. Edgren (the Merciless Infidel), after you. ;)

355 Frank IBC  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:05:10pm

I think they mean "Checkpoint 404". :)

356 cardiacmont  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:05:48pm

#352 song_and_dance_man 3/6/2005 04:03PM PST
FOXnews reporting 1 million dollar ransom exhanged hands for the release of Sgrena


The terrorists must have a bit of money if they can afford to pay 1 million dollars to have her taken off their hands...

357 Mr Pol  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:05:55pm

#352 song_and_dance_man

FOXnews reporting 1 million dollar ransom exhanged hands for the release of Sgrena

100 million euros for 2 Fwench 'journalists'... That commie bitch is cheap, too!

358 Goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:06:05pm

Intersting but not surprising headlines on Fox and CNN:

"Conflicting StoriesFreed Italian disputes U.S.Journalist says car that carried her, intel officer was not speeding when fired on by U.S. troops"

and

"Journalist: 'Americans fired without motive'

Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena has disputed the U.S. account of a shooting incident that left her wounded and an Italian intelligence officer dead shortly after her release by Iraqi insurgents. In an article published today in her paper, Il Manifesto, Sgrena describes a "rain of fire and bullets" in the incident."

Can you guess which is which?

359 mikeymom  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:06:16pm

hubby and i went to new mexico for a well earned vacation last o ct--encountered a base-ball sized hailstorm that totally demolished our 1992 dodge stealth in 20 min--with us in it- no window or surface left on the car-left it in a junkyard in new mexico--i'd trade places in that car

360 Patrizio  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:06:19pm

Your honesty is always appreciated Charles. Good work.

361 pookleblinky  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:06:41pm

Dang, I messed up that skit

Here it is from a SNL transcript archive:

Read Ed's stuff aloud in a Christopher Walken Cadencetm

Announcer: Ed Glosser : Trivial Psychic. During a brief power outage, Ed Glosser's tanning booth experiences a slight malfunction. Forfeiting a darker base, he instead gains the mildly impressive ability to foretell insignificant events of the immediate future. This is his story..

Male Employee #1: Ed, I want you to meet Bob. He just joined us over in Accounting.

New Employee: Nice to meet you! [ shakes Ed's hand ]

Ed Glosser: [ falls into his trance ] Tomorrow.. on the way to work.. you're gonna buy a cup of coffee..

New Employee: [ anxious ] Yeah?

Ed Glosser: Then you're gonna hail a cab..

New Employee: Uh huh! Does the cab crash?!

Ed Glosser: No.. you're gonna leave the coffee in the cab!

New Employee: Okay.. I guess I'll just have to get another cup when I get here.

Ed Glosser: Look! you don't get it! You're wasting coffee!

Male Employee #1: Ed, Ed, Ed.. what's the big deal? It's just a cup of coffee! Look, we've got a whole pot of it over there.

362 rednaxela  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:07:22pm

#350 eeevil conservative

In the absence of more conclusive evidence, I move to pass a motion requiring that, in relation to Ms. Sgrena, the word "kidnapped" only be used with scare quotes.

363 Ed from Ohio  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:08:51pm

maybe our guys are such good shots that all 400 bullets went through the same hole created by the first bullet.

Hey! anythings possible

364 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:09:02pm

60 Minutes now doing "Son of Al Ghraib".

The CIA using secret airplanes to turn over peaceful Arabs to Egypt and Jordan for torture.

Swedish ambassador claiming torture being used.

365 Charles  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:09:57pm

Well, I've searched all the usual sources, including Getty Images, and no one seems to have a photograph of the car. Or even a description of it.

366 Pamela  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:10:09pm

#347 Nancy

Yes we need some more forensic examination of the car and the whee the dirver, and passnegers were seated, trajectory of the bullets etc...

367 Catttt  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:10:11pm

OT
The Smart Car
Check out the tiny cars. (I got sidetracked looking for info on the damned Airport vehicle).

368 rednaxela  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:10:56pm

#364 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades

Swedish ambassador claiming torture being used.


Is Blix at it again?

369 D. Edgren (the Merciless Infidel)  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:11:12pm

#354 red:

Oh no, mine is simple (it just has inconvenient punctuation bits).

It was conferred by zulubaby, and I ain't changing it.

Guess you're "red" from now on, dude. Nicetomeetcha.


D. Edgren

370 Nancy  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:11:15pm

333 Cattt

Good point --they do keep saying "coalition forces" and the Iraqis have checkpoints too.

Those agents negotiating were staying with the US Military on the base outside of the airport so it can hardly be said that the US was intervening in their negotiating for her release.

I am sure John Doe doesn't just walk in and get accommodations with the US military.

Here's what the Iraqi foreign minister has to say: Brussels - "Why would the Americans want to stop a journalist from being freed?" asked Iraqi Human Rights Minister Bakhtiar Amin in an interview with the Belgian public television channel RTBF. [Link: www.news24.com...]

371 Carolyn  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:12:16pm

Like I said before on another thread, I am sorry I worried one minute about this communist woman. I remember seeing her begging for her life, and felt very sorry for her. After hearing about her escape, then being shot, again I felt bad. Now to hear her anti-American B.S. I don't care one bit how bad that shoulder hurts, commie bitch.

372 D. Edgren (the Merciless Infidel)  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:13:27pm

#365 Charles:

Maybe it was a Fiat, and rusted away (or fell apart completely) between the "shooting" and the time the newsies arrived.


D. Edgren

373 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:13:33pm
374 foreign devil  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:13:33pm

ATTENTION: CNN about to show a piece on Saudi Arabia: Kingdom in Crisis or some title like that. About what's happening now. Comes on at 8 pm est.

375 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:14:01pm
376 rednaxela  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:14:55pm

#367 Cattt

I once saw a Smart after it had been rear ended by a van.
Needless to say that there wasn't much left to identify it by.

377 zombie  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:15:30pm

Interesting details from article on "AFX":

The Italian journalist wounded by US troops shortly after the end of her month-long kidnap ordeal fanned a growing diplomatic rift between Rome and Washington by saying she is not ruling out the possibility of being deliberately targeted by the US.

Giuliana Sgrena, wounded when the convoy taking her to safety was riddled by US fire near Baghdad airport on Friday, said she may have been a target because the Americans opposed negotiations with her kidnappers.

"Everyone knows that the Americans don't want hostages to be freed by negotiations, and for that reason, I don't see why I should rule out that I was their target," Sgrena told Sky Italia news channel on Sunday.

However initial investigations by Italian magistrates have yielded no evidence to support the allegation that US troops deliberately fired on Sgrena, the Italian news agency ANSA said.

Before delivering their final conclusions on the incident, the magistrates Franco Ionta and Pietro Saviotti must hear eye witnesses testimony and receive expert analysis on the trajectory of the bullets which hit the vehicle, the agency reported citing law enforcement sources.

They will also study telephone conversations between Italian secret service agents in the vehicle with Sgrena and the government in Rome as the incident occurred.

We demand to hear the tapes of those conversations. In full.

378 needles  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:15:48pm

this is one of the problems with blogs... instantaneous misinformation going out to the masses...

379 Hankmeister  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:15:53pm

Photograph aside, I can flatout guaran-damn-tee you that if American troops put 400 rounds on the car this little commie was in, she wouldn't have gotten out alive.

And as for her story she's now trying to sell in Italy and the slobbering global media, commies are known for their ability to lie, and failing that embellish any story which slams America. I just wish some media pundit would conclude some coverage in this way, "She has her story to tell but as we all know from past experiences, communists hate America, even our own homegrown ones, so the details of her personal story has to be viewed with some level of skepticism." Fat chance.

380 Catttt  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:16:13pm

And meanwhile, a French lady is still being held. Florence Aubenas, a reporter with French left-wing daily Liberation, is still out there somewhere. She looked just awful in her vid. No fruit - she wasn't directing the film - she looked totally freaked out.

Why aren't the LLLs mentioning her?

381 Nancy  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:16:16pm

When The Associated Press in Baghdad asked the U.S. military to see the vehicle on Saturday, the military said it didn't know where it was. [Link: www.foxnews.com...]

But yet they went ahead and used a photo of the February 4th vehicle.

382 pooklekufr: the Kafir Constitutionalist  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:16:27pm

Ah! D. Edgren also received a name selected by a scaly-skinned muse!

O scaly-skinned muse, lend me your green ears
that I may tell my tale!

383 rednaxela  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:17:08pm

#372 Merciless Infidel

LOL!

That is by far the most plausible theory I've heard yet.

384 Mr Pol  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:17:12pm

#375 song_and_dance_man

Kerry to release his Navel records.

Great typo. Mind if I borrow it?

385 zombie  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:20:23pm

What the hell? Now she's claiming it wasn't at a checkpoint after all, that we just hunted her down:

LA Times: "No checkpoint"

The U.S. military said the shooting had been an accident and that the vehicle had been speeding toward an American checkpoint outside the airport and failed to heed warnings to stop.

But Sgrena told Italian state television Saturday that her car "was not going especially fast for a situation of that type." She also said her group had been fired on by an American patrol and not at a checkpoint.

Every time she opens her mouth it gets more insane.

386 Mr Pol  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:20:59pm

#380 Cattt

FYI - Florence Aubenas is a commie anti-american bitch, too. She'll be free as soon as Fwance coughs up the 50 million euros jizya 'ransom'.

387 Egfrow  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:20:59pm

#313 Alone in NY

Which news channel or organization reported that she said a "tank" fired upon the vehicle. Please give more details or even a link. That's a serious claim!

388 rednaxela  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:21:04pm

#378 needles

this is one of the problems with blogs... instantaneous misinformation going out to the masses...


Entirely unlike what AP is doing.

389 will_not_back_down  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:22:33pm

Hezeboli getting ready to start crap in Lebanon

LINK

390 hornsofthedevil  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:22:33pm

so...


where EXACTLY is the vehicle with 300 to 400 rounds in it?

391 Charles  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:23:28pm

Sheesh. See the latest update; I went back to the caption for the February 4 photo -- and this was not even Sgrena's car.

The kidnappers drove off with her in the car after forcing the other people out.

The AP used a photo of a car that had nothing to do with Sgrena, except that the kidnappers ran into it while driving away.

392 Charles  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:24:43pm

needles wrote:

this is one of the problems with blogs... instantaneous misinformation going out to the masses...

And instantaneous corrections as well.

393 jrdroll  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:25:33pm

#378 needlehead

this is one of the problems with blogs... instantaneous misinformation going out to the masses...

Who then chop the leftist misinformation to shreds.

394 rednaxela  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:25:39pm

#387 Egfrow

That depends on what the meaning of the word tank is.

Or, for that matter, of the words not fast, riddled and kidnapped.

395 Final Historian  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:27:13pm
#392 Charles 3/6/2005 04:24PM PST

needles wrote:

this is one of the problems with blogs... instantaneous misinformation going out to the masses...

And instantaneous corrections as well.

Roger that.

Considering how long it takes the MSM to fess up to a mistake, criticising blogs is a two-edged sword.

396 Nancy  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:27:56pm

This woman has delusions of grandeur. She thinks the US tried to kill her because she "knew too much" and that I Calipari "probably" slumped over her to defend her.

Recounting the incident, she said she was talking to Calipari, when suddenly "he leaned over me, probably to defend me, and then he slumped down and I saw he was dead." [Link: www.cnn.com...]

397 JonB  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:28:40pm

Well, the AP certainly seems to be using this whole story as a way to discredit blogs. I'd venture to say that they did in fact use the wrong image to see what we would do.
I think we need a refresher course on the 48hour type rule.

Still, this does not let the AP off the hook when it comes to proving that 300 to 400 rounds were fired. I still want to see photos and proof of the actual attack.

398 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:29:21pm
399 RightWingNutJob  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:29:39pm

#392

Yes. Unlike Dan Rather, the blogs admit their mistakes ASAP and don't hold on for months to completely bogus assertions.

400 manofaiki  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:30:01pm

This latest expose of a MSM moonbat attempt to smear our troops and spread lies about "300" rounds from high caliber weapons shot into this reporters car call for...

THE SINGING OF THE BLOGGER'S ANTHEM!

(sung to the tune of "She'll Be Comin' 'Round The Mountain When She Comes)

Oh, they'll be tryin' to fool us again 'cause they think we're dumb!
Oh they'll be tryin' to fool us again 'cause they think we're dumb!

They'll be tryin' to fool us again,
They'll be tryin' to fool us again,
Oh, they'll be tryin' to fool us again 'cause they think we're dumb!

Oh, the Blogs will catch their deceptions one by one!
Oh, the Blogs will catch their deceptions one by one!

The Blogs will catch their deceptions,
the blogs will catch their deceptions,
Oh, the Blogs will catch their deceptions one by one!

Oh, ever'body's bloggin' now don't they know?
Oh, ever'body's bloggin' now don't they know?

Ever'body's bloggin',
Ever'body's bloggin'
Oh, ever'body's bloggin' now don't they know!

copyright manofaiki 2004

401 RebTex  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:31:16pm

Well!
It looks as if I missed a big day!

402 Nancy  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:31:50pm

Well the car WAS "involved" with her ergo it is "close enough" to true that the car was "connected" to her!

Channeling Dan Rather and Mary Mapes --

403 Sarah D.  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:32:33pm

I'm confused. Do we actually have a picture of her car? The one that's "riddled" with bullets?

404 pookleblinky  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:32:50pm

#397

Two can play that game.

Faith healer resurrects Tsunami victim!

405 susanita  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:33:33pm

#378 Needles

Hi Dan Rather!

The misinformation was put out by the AP. THEY SHOWED A PHOTO OF A CAR AND SAID THAT SHE WAS SHOT IN A CAR.

What is the normal, rational assumption?

IF anything this proves blogs are good. We are showing that the report falsely infers that the car in question was not full of holes.
We corrected the story, get it?

406 Mr Pol  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:34:17pm

#399 RightWingNutJob

Yes. Unlike Dan Rather, the blogs admit their mistakes ASAP and don't hold on for months to completely bogus assertions.

Actually, that's AP's mistake. So LGF quickly admitted AP's mistake. Big deal. I'm sure Dan "Thick Rhino" Rather would, too.

407 Charles  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:35:34pm

Sarah D.: We don't have a picture of the car that ran the checkpoint. I've searched; it doesn't seem to be on the web.

408 RebTex  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:35:45pm

Fake...but accurate?!

409 zombie  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:35:50pm

This article has some interesting extra details, but one must register to read the whole thing, so I'll just cut and paste the key parts here:

Ms. Sgrena told Italian state television yesterday her car "was not going especially fast for a situation of that type." She also said her group was fired on by an American patrol and not at a checkpoint.

Mr. Scolari, a fellow left-wing journalist who had been talking to the passengers of the car with Italian government officials by mobile telephone when the shooting occurred, backed up her account. He said the Americans had been informed the car was coming through and that it was just 700 metres from the airport and travelling at moderate speed in heavy rain.

In an interview from her hospital bed, where she is receiving treatment for injuries suffered in the attack, Ms. Sgrena described how Mr. Calipari was talking to her when the car was riddled with bullets. "He was telling me what had been happening in Italy when I was away when he suddenly lent against me, probably to protect me. Then he collapsed and I realized he was dead.

"The firing continued because the driver couldn't manage to explain that we were Italian. It was absolutely terrible. I was particularly upset because I thought that by this stage, after I was handed over to the Italians, that the worst was over.

"Instead there was all this firing and we were hit by a rain of fire."

Mr. Scolari said the shootout occurred just as the prime minister's residence was making telephone contact with the car's passengers.

410 susanita  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:38:55pm

Sorry about my poor English above.

I guess I am getting tired. I can't tear myself away!

411 Nancy  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:39:11pm

It really isn't a "mistake" since this basically is "real time" and it was purported to be what it was not when the results of scrutinizing results in digging further and a correction is made.

Because if the mistake had not been made --ie the photo discovered and purported to be the one from the recent incident --no one would have dug further to question it.

So, it really wasn't a bad thing because it would have just been accepted as "fact" if it hadn't been scrutinized.

412 Beagle  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:39:13pm

#222 Bubble Girl

The caliber of the bullets used by the military would go through the left side and tear out the right along with the front and back, it would be swiss cheese and she would be dead. Period.


That's just the .223. Her story purports an armored vehicle fired at the car. That means a .30 or .50 cal MG, minimum. A fifty cal within a couple hundred yards could go through the windshield, the driver, his seat, another passenger, and into (if not out of) the trunk.

413 rednaxela  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:39:40pm

#402

Channeling Dan Rather and Mary Mapes --


There's a further analogy.
Just like one shouldn't use a typewriter to fabricate a typewritten document, one should equally not use a car riddled with bulllets to depict a car riddled with bullets.

414 Terrye  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:39:50pm

Charles:

Well you know since a roving band of baby killing soldiers in a tank shot at the vehicle 400 times there may not be anything left of it.

And that soldier they talked to probably did not know what had happened to it. The Army is tight lipped.

415 Rayra[deleted]  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:43:30pm
416 Sarah D.  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:46:37pm

#407 Charles

That's suspicious too. Thanks.

Look, this gal was begging for the end of "occupation", not for her life.

"I beg you, put an end to the occupation. I beg the Italian government and the Italian people to put pressure on the government to pull out," Sgrena says on the tape, speaking in Italian and holding her hands in front of her in supplication.

It was propaganda from the beginning:

"It was the end of January. I was there to report on the situation of these people who are dying every day. Thousands of people are in prison, children, old people. The women are being raped. People are dying everywhere, in the street. They have nothing more to eat, they don't have electricity, or water.

"I beg you, end the occupation. I ask the Italian government, I ask the Italian people to put pressure on the government. (In a plea to her companion Pierre Scolari:)

"Pierre, help me! (here she broke down sobbing), please, show the photos of children hit by fragmentation bombs.

"I ask my family to help me. I ask you all, to all who fought against the war, against the occupation, I beg you, help me, these people must no longer suffer like this.

This is pure anti-war propaganda

417 Rayra[deleted]  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:47:27pm
418 ted  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:47:44pm

After looking at all the facts IMHO,This POS Sgrena staged this whole entire incident from beginning to end ..from her " kidnaping" to the "shootout...her entire story is a pile of bullshit...

419 Alone in NY  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:52:13pm

#387 Egfrow

I heard the audio on NBC Nightly News. The whole thing is a farce now. It is tragic the intelligence officer was killed and Sgrena was injured, but I suspect the real problem here was the conduct of Sgrena's party in a free fire zone, during a curfew. I haven't heard one thing about her party attempting to coordinate their activities with US forces, which is incomprehensible under the prevailing conditions.

Her hysterical account ("tank" was her word in the audio) only deepens my suspicions.

420 Terrye  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 2:53:27pm

zombie #49:

Oh I see, a fellow commie anti American who was not even there confirms Sergna's account of the events via the phone and says the Americans were told they were a half mile away and coming in. So why not stop? Maybe they told the Italians they were coming in but forgot to tell the Americans.

I wonder what the other guy will say?

I am afraid he will concur with the lady just to cover his butt. Someone messed up here.

421 Earl  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 3:00:44pm

[engineer]

Remember Timoshenko's Theorum applied to automobile design? This car hit an inanimate object at ~ 25 kph.

#412 beagle

I've never shot .50 cal, but have with 5.56/.223.

Sgrena's lying through her teeth on both counts.

422 Frank IBC  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 3:01:52pm

I read somewhere that the "intelligence agent" was actually just another leftist journalist, I think...

423 stevesturm  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 3:03:20pm

Bullets on Target (BOT) is a three variable equation N (number of shooters) times R (weapon rate of fire) times T (time spent shooting). Obviously, to put 300-400 BOT requires a good number of shooters pumping out a lot of bullets.

For the full commentary, see this posting

424 Sarah D.  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 3:07:55pm

I have a .50 cal muzzle loader. It packs a pretty good wallop.

425 Mr Pol  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 3:11:16pm

#419 Alone in NY

I haven't heard one thing about her party attempting to coordinate their activities with US forces, which is incomprehensible under the prevailing conditions.

According to the RTL radio station, that's because she was 'detained' at the same place as Florence Aubenas, the 'missing' Fwench 'journalist'...

426 Catttt  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 3:24:14pm

BTW, sort of OT:

I've started using Altavista for images. I just tried them with "sgrena vehicle" and got three copies of the car from February (the one that it turns out is a bystander's car from February, but the AP is putting it out as the Airport Vehicle).

Google - nada.

427 BananaRepublican  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 3:28:57pm

Has anyone checked with Kinko's, suposedly Burkett was there and faxed a copy of the picture of the real car to Black Rock. It's a Lamborghini Diablo with a Halliburton parking sticker on it.

428 eddiebear  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 3:50:35pm

This reminds me of the AP claiming in May 2004 that the US intentionally shot up an Iraqi wedding, complete with "video". What ever became of that "story"?

429 john jay  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 4:09:25pm

Charles and the other LGFers who are on this story,
Thanks for the hard work; the evidence needs review. Sure, there are some corrections, but that's the price of dealing with breaking news--not every part of the story survives scrutiny.

One of the things that distinguishes LGF from crazy conspiracy sites (mostly leftist, but they exist on the right as well), is the importance attached to actual proof and reasoned argument.

Keep it up.

430 Yankee Division Son  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 4:15:12pm

Call me blind, but where are the holes? This story gets more and more bizzare...

431 Yankee Division Son  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 4:36:07pm

This photo of the car is on Yahoo.. hard to tell about the windshield from the angle, but I don't see any holes in the sheetmetal...

432 Yankee Division Son  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 4:48:56pm

YO! LGF'ers! is this true?

Iraqi sources: Al Zarqawi arrested

06-03-2005 , 06:20


Iraqi sources have told a Saudi newspaper that al-Qaeda's man in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, has been arrested. Al Watan daily said Sunday that the official announcement on the arrest was delayed until a new Iraqi government is in place. The purported arrest supposedly took place on the Iraqi - Syrian border, the report added. Abu Musab al-Zarqawi

It should be mentioned that CNN aired on Saturday new pictures believed to show al-Zarqawi, who is America's most-wanted man in Iraq.

The Saudi paper said that the arrest of al-Zarqawi was completed ahead the recent visit of US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld in Iraq. This visit took place early February.


© 2005 Al Bawaba (www.albawaba.com )

433 Ackomanyuki  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 4:49:04pm

#263 pookleblinky

Is that AI interdiction rifle LEO, and if so, is it possible for my Maine Coon to acquire civilian certification at Thunder Ranch? She is getting a bit long in the tooth, and is failing to stop a rouge male tuxedo's nightly leaving of footprints upon my car, therefore, perhaps a force multilplier is in order for my underarmed geriatric knife fighter.

434 jptmd  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 5:01:43pm

Must be the new "up-armored" Fiat.

435 daNightman  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 6:19:50pm

So let me get this straight. Sgrena claims the car got shot up with 300 to 400 bullets, and yet this is the vehicle?

Only way I can see that happening is if she accidently got shot up by Cobra from GI Joe. For a "terrorist organization", they really were the gang that couldn't shoot staight.

Neither, of course, could GI Joe shoot with any accuracy as I recall. Kind of evened out that way.

436 daNightman  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 6:23:20pm

#434 jptmd

Did old Fiats like this one have shatterproof glass? Odd thing I noticed about it was that the shattered window in the back side was on the driver's side of the car, in which case wouldn't the bullet enter from the left and exit the right?

I was trying to play that out in my head, and it didn't match the autopsy report from earlier.

Perhaps someone can explain that somehow (the shattered window was the result of the bullet exiting?)

437 Charles  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 6:26:23pm

da Nightman: please read the whole post above. This is not the car that was shot at the US checkpoint.

438 rightasrain  Sun, Mar 6, 2005 8:04:24pm

Charles, I can't see the link to the correct car on the home page (the one you posted in one of the updates.)

Can you repost this link?

Thanks,
rightasrain

439 Esoteric  Mon, Mar 7, 2005 4:35:42am

Where is the driver, and why hasn't he been interviewed?

440 Bunker Buster  Mon, Mar 7, 2005 5:25:42am

Is anyone aware of any pictures of the actual car Sgrena was in at the time it tried to run a US checkpoint? That would be MOST helpful, as I cannot find any. I imagine any such pictures will be kept under wraps until the matter is investigated.

441 SmithL  Mon, Mar 7, 2005 5:41:27am

I thought Hahn, and that idiot Bratton banned shooting at cars.

442 salt1907  Mon, Mar 7, 2005 8:58:49am

I have added this piece of the story to my MSM lies of 2005 post. We have gotten used to the MSM/DNC bias. There is nothing new in that. But using the photo of a different car is a whole other matter. This is a lie on the order of Rathergate.

I wonder if they will claim that the car is "fake, but accurate."

More commentary here.

443 salt1907  Mon, Mar 7, 2005 8:59:10am

I have added this piece of the story to my MSM lies of 2005 post. We have gotten used to the MSM/DNC bias. There is nothing new in that. But using the photo of a different car is a whole other matter. This is a lie on the order of Rathergate.

I wonder if they will claim that the car is "fake, but accurate."

More commentary here.


This entry has been archived.
Comments are closed.

^ back to top ^

log in
Name:
Pass:

Register Forgot Your Password? My Account Re-send Confirmation (To log in, cookies must be enabled in your browser!)

► LGF Headlines

  • Loading...

► Top 10 Comments

  • Loading...

► Bottom Comments

  • Loading...

► Recent Comments

  • Loading...

► Tools/Info

► LGF Hits

► Slideshows

► Resources

► Never Forget

► Statistics

► Tag Cloud

► Contact

You must have Javascript enabled to use the contact form.
Your email:

Subject:

Message:


Messages may be published in our weblog, unless you request otherwise.
Tech Note:
Using the Contact Form

► News/Opinion

  • Loading...

More Partners

Compare Electricity Prices in your area. Texas Electricity is deregulated; you have the right to choose Texas Electric Rates from among many Texas Electric Companies.

Now with polemical tangents.

Follow Lizardoid on Twitter

 Frank says:

You can't be a Real Country unless you have a BEER and an airline - it helps if you have some kind of a football team or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a BEER.