LGF

-RetweetGoogle News High Standards, Exhibit N for Nazi

Sun, Mar 20, 2005 at 7:28:00 pm PST

I thought I’d seen everything.

But Google News has now added the unspeakably vile neo-Nazi white supremacist web site National Vanguard to their index of “legitimate news sources.” (Hat tip: Morgan.)

And LGF has been turned down. Twice.

UPDATE at 3/22/05 10:51:12 am:

For more on this, see: lgf: Demand Google News Transparency.

UPDATE at 3/23/05 7:39:19 pm:

The latest: Google News has removed National Vanguard from their index, with no explanation or comment.

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492 comments

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1 PollyPrissypants  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:28:38pm

Will the madness ever end?

2 NC  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:29:47pm

Wow.

3 Americain  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:31:05pm

Screw Google. We must all boycott their service.

4 RebTex  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:31:21pm

Glad I don't use google.

5 dak  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:31:34pm

I see by the news in the link that our ol' holocaust denier Zundel is doing well in a german jail. haven't heard of him since we deported him...

6 SkippyMoment  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:32:11pm

Charles,

Being snubbed by Google is a compliment.

You're best revenge is to continue to become the blog-of-force in the news cycle. And when they come to you and ask if they can link your site, say "sure, if you pay me."

7 lykeios  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:32:46pm

Geh. Anyone have recommendations on what's a different search engine to use?

8 madawaskan  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:32:54pm

Online journal rag...

venezeula newsline crapper now the neo-nazis oops! Online Journal and venezeula newsline is linked to by Yahoo...unbelievable!

9 jake  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:34:15pm

Oh.. my.. God.. I'm stunned. Those guys are utter loons. They've revamped their website since the last time I ran across them, clearly in an attempt to pass themselves off as reputable by removing the more obvious hate-speech from the front pages.

Check out the Norman Rockwell-esque header GIF of shiny happy white children awaiting the glorious Black- and Jew-free future that awaits them. Photos of the loons running the asylum are here. Kevin Strom used to do a weekly Internet radio show where he would rant about whatever nutty Jewish conspiracy caught his fancy that day.

10 RebTex  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:34:40pm

I use MSN & Yahoo
They seem to work fine.

11 RebTex  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:35:47pm

THere's a guy impersonating GW on the J.F. Roast.
He's pretty good.

12 MARS Trucker  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:36:14pm

I linked from Morgan's post on the Outrage thread. Out of curiosity I linked to the paper's site and found out that David Duke got his ass kicked in Spain...too bad they didn't finish the job.

13 J.D.  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:37:48pm
Being snubbed by Google is a compliment.


My thoughts exactly.

14 Protagonist  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:37:57pm

OT

OMG! Drudge on his radio show just aired audio, from last Friday, of Terri Schiavo responding to questions from her father. She is obviously cognizant. This is murder.

15 J.D.  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:38:34pm

#11 RebTex
What roast? I just got home.

16 ajackson  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:38:42pm

I guess the problem with the Sergey Brin's dictum "Don't be evil" is you must first have enough of a moral compass to recognize it.

17 ibu guru  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:39:11pm

Google needs to eliminate the word "legitimate" when describing their links to misinformation sources.

ask.com, Yahoo! search, lycos -- there's a bunch of search engines available. I use ask quite a bit.

18 MikalM  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:39:11pm

Un-freakin'-believable.

Then again, I wonder if they had a concerted campaign of cc'ing "anti-Zionist" pieces to Google that weren't that different, in form and content, from what you'd see in the left-leaning Euro sources. Some doofus at Google might have take the NV Nazimedia as just another "alternative" source, and added it without backgrounding them.

19 MikalM  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:39:51pm

take = taken

PIMF

20 Ann  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:40:39pm

All efforts are equal, I guess. Even when they are evil.

So does Google qualify as MSM?

21 Americain  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:41:00pm

#10 RebTex

I use MSN & Yahoo

Doesn't Yahoo contract out with Google?

22 noshariaincanada  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:41:16pm

Google is clearly dangerous - they claim that their news page is "auto generated", yet they're obviously making editorial decisions to exclude sites like LGF while including hate sites like National Vanguard.

23 jake  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:41:21pm

The Southern Poverty Law Center has a good bio on the current head of this "organization". And another story on how this group has fallen apart since the death of its founder, William Pierce, author of the infamous piece of trash novel that inspired Timothy McVeigh, "The Turner Diaries". From the first link:

Führer of the Titanic

Six days after the July 2002 death of National Alliance* founder and leader William Pierce, the Alliance board named Erich Gliebe to head what up to that point had been the best organized and most effective neo-Nazi group in America — a title the Alliance can hardly lay claim to a year later, as it struggles to survive a series of splits and other problems under Gliebe (see Against the Wall).

That Gliebe was selected was not much of a surprise. Pierce had regarded the long-time Cleveland unit leader as a son, and Gliebe had earned great respect by making the Alliance's racist music operation, Resistance Records*, profitable and by pioneering the use of "European American cultural festivals" to recruit ethnic whites. Gliebe was also close to racist bands, and was a good enough organizer to be able to bring as many as 500 people to their concerts.

In the event, however, Gliebe, a former tool-and-die maker and boxer who fought as "The Aryan Barbarian," [Ed: hahaha what a tool!] was no Pierce, a man who once taught physics at an Oregon university. He almost immediately ran into trouble when the Intelligence Report published details of a secret speech he made three months before Pierce's death, attacking members of other hate groups as "morons" and "hobbyists" who belonged to "the make-believe world otherwise known as 'the movement.'"

24 wisdom in words  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:42:10pm

Just registered. Feels great.

25 fat.elvis  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:42:16pm

Shouldn't take it so hard, yeah yeah!

Sorry... I was just listening to Keef and enjoying some Jim Beam there.

26 fat.elvis  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:42:37pm

Nazis... I hate those guys! [/Indiana Jones]

27 kid charlemagne  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:43:56pm

This is disturbing. I've been perusing some of the more extreme paleocon sites lately and, make no mistake, the anti-Jewish rhetoric is fierce and paranoid (and often backed by the pseudo-science of Kevin MacDonald). And there is a criss-crossing between Left and Right on the "Jewish Question". Don't think it can't happen here, folks. Be vigilant.

28 ibu guru  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:45:41pm

#14 Protagonist

Are you sure it really is Terri's voice? Or is this another cooked-up deal from her parents -- who have edited and distorted videos before to "prove" she has some sort of functioning.

She has been repeatedly tested for years and doesn't even have enough brain function to swallow or digest food. After 15 years on life support, if there was any hope for her survival -- no less improvement in her condition -- it would have happened by now. I don't know how anyone can be so cruel as to keep someone on life support for 15 years. Hasn't she suffered enough?

29 MARS Trucker  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:48:01pm

#24 wisdom in words

Just registered. Feels great.


welcome, hope you have thick skin and a passion to live for the FNDT :)

30 Cloud Master  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:48:26pm

Has anyone tried this?
[Link: www.kartoo.com...]
A different type of search.

31 Spiny Norman  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:49:04pm

#28 ibu guru

She has been repeatedly tested for years and doesn't even have enough brain function to swallow or digest food.

If she truly has "no" brain function, she certainly CAN'T be "suffering"...

Just sayin'

32 foreign devil  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:49:41pm

Google [spit!]

33 Americain  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:52:43pm

#28 ibu guru

After 15 years on life support, if there was any hope for her survival -- no less improvement in her condition -- it would have happened by now.

How can she improve when her husband has refused any kind of therapy for her to progress?

34 MARS Trucker  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:52:44pm

#30 Cloud Master

Has anyone tried this?


pretty cool need to get rid of the genie or lizards won't use it.

*Genie: (Islam) an invisible spirit mentioned in the Koran and believed by Muslims to inhabit the earth and influence mankind by appearing in the form of humans or animals.

*courtesy of
wordweb

35 Adrenalyn  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:53:09pm

well, I noticed one "interesting" article on the neonazi news service web site

David Duke is called a "European Rights Activist"

I guess that is fair, after all the mainstream media still call Jessie "shakedown"Jackson and
Al "Tawana Brawley" Sharpton
'civil rights leaders'


but back to googoo

what do you expect from a bunch of Silicon Valley (California) spoiled liberals ?
they are the products of our (yes, I live in and was born in California) public schools (aka institutions of liberal indoctrination)

36 Robert Crawford  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:53:51pm
fter 15 years on life support, if there was any hope for her survival -- no less improvement in her condition -- it would have happened by now. I don't know how anyone can be so cruel as to keep someone on life support for 15 years. Hasn't she suffered enough?

Feeding someone isn't "life support". It's feeding them.

37 justdanny  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:54:05pm

I use google.

I'll keep using google.

Like the cars we all drive that spew toxins.

Google, just another toxic machine.

38 Spiny Norman  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:54:46pm

#37 justdanny

Google, just another toxic machine.

LOL! Good one!

39 morgan  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:55:30pm

This just happened yesterday. It is very possible that the corporate drone who made the decision to add this site has no idea what this newspaper is and that a few emails to Google will clear it up. But then again, maybe I'm just naive and low level office workers are actually this demented.

My advice - send Google a few National Vanguard articles that betray their anti-hispanic and anti-black bias. Apparantly hating Jews is kosher there.

[Link: www.nationalvanguard.org...]

[Link: www.nationalvanguard.org...]

[Link: www.nationalvanguard.org...]

[Link: www.nationalvanguard.org...]

[Link: www.nationalvanguard.org...]

You may also want to mention that the FBI calls the group "domestic terrorists" and that the National Alliance members regularly attack members of minority groups.

[Link: www.fbi.gov...]

40 jake  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:55:45pm

Some more neo-Nazi monkey business:

Among the many sins neo-Nazis like to ascribe to their mortal enemies, "the Jews," few inspire more righteous invective than pornography and sexual depravity. David Duke, the former Klan leader currently imprisoned for gambling away his followers' donations, has even blamed Jews for inspiring "obscene poets."

"The Talmud's full of things like sex with boys and girls," he claimed in a 1985 interview.

Since last November, 35-year-old Bruce Alan Breeding (see also profile The X-Rated Nazi) — an important figure in the National Alliance and Duke's longtime right-hand man — has been running a New Orleans-based porn site, xsitenola.com, while producing a companion adult magazine, Xsite.

The smut Breeding peddles would make a Playboy reader blush. Far from "soft," airbrushed porn, Breeding trades in mother-daughter sex, bisexuality, anal sex, dungeon rentals and "slave girls for voyeurs."

To say the least, Breeding's porn projects represent a dramatic deviation from the professedly straight-arrow world of organized white supremacy. National Alliance membership is supposedly reserved for "White persons of good character," with bisexuality and homosexuality high on the list of disqualifiers.

The Alliance claims that one of its goals is to offer "a moral compass, so that people once again know instinctively what is wholesome and natural and what is degenerate and alien." Members are advised to get their kicks with "polkas or waltzes, reels or jigs," and never, but never, to "undulate or jerk to negroid jazz or rock rhythms."

Breeding did not disavow this white-bread world when he set up shop as an aspiring porn king — quite the contrary, in fact. Breeding still belongs to the Alliance, the largest neo-Nazi group in America.

41 Moonbat_One  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:55:50pm

LGF: Worse than Neo-Nazis.

42 MARS Trucker  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:56:04pm

#35 Adrenalyn
Right on, although you are too polite regarding David Duke. I still say he got his ass kicked-a deserving reward for a former Klansman.

43 lykeios  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:57:16pm

Well I'm not using Google. Lycos seems to be a good search engine to replace it. (And there's something cool about their name... hmm.)

Unfortunately, I haven't found another search engine that uses my preferred language (Latin). But I can live without that.

44 ajackson  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:57:26pm

#28 - I've seen videos of her - she makes sounds and tracks movement of people with her head and eyes. She smiles in the presence of people known to her. By no means is she on 'life support'. She has a feeding tube in to provide nourishment and water. That's it. Her family wants to try feeding her manually, her husband (backed by court order) forbids it. The supposed rationale is that 'she might choke'.

She's had no therapy for fifteen years (since immediately after her husband won the malpractice suit). Her husband has also refused any sort of MRI scan of her brain. Her husband (backed with a court order) plans to have her body cremated IMMEDIATELY following her death. This is against the wishes of her parents and counter to her Catholic faith.

45 Spiny Norman  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:58:24pm

Channeling Indymedia, are we, Moonbat_One?

;^)

46 MARS Trucker  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:59:17pm

#37 justdanny



I use google.

I'll keep using google.

Like the cars we all drive that spew toxins.

Google, just another toxic machine.
.

Not in California you don't. You have to get that sucker SMOGGED

47 little boomer  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 5:59:29pm

Illinois Nazis...I hate Illinois Nazis!

Blues Brothers

48 Megan  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:00:06pm

Is Google looking or something to replace the AFP?

49 quark2  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:00:48pm

Use dogpile.com, altavista.com, clusty.com

I never use google.

50 Ward Cleaver  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:01:01pm

Shouldn't they change their name to Goebbels?

51 Americain  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:01:54pm

#50 Ward Cleaver

Shouldn't they change their name to Goebbels?

LOL!

52 Gagdad Bob  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:02:28pm

They must consider LGF an unfashionable paleo-Nazi site.

53 MARS Trucker  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:02:31pm

#40 jake

Members are advised to get their kicks with "polkas or waltzes, reels or jigs," and never, but never, to "undulate or jerk to negroid jazz or rock rhythms."

Oh no, gotta watch that negroid (sic) music, it might influnce our young.

(negroid meet Lizaroid)


/sarcasm off...

54 ibu guru  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:03:36pm

#31 Spiny Norman

She appears to have sufficient brain stem function to keep her heart beating, blink-reflex, not enough function for swallowing, food digestion, and other bodily functions. No idea whether she can feel pain. I still think it is horrible to keep someone with no hope of recovery of any sort on life support for 15 years.

55 SoCalJustice  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:05:32pm

You have to be f*cking kidding me.

56 Megan  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:05:47pm

But they're only anti-Zionists! Everyone knows Nazis are people who favor limited government, capitalism, and support Israel!/moonbat

57 Ojoe  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:07:32pm

No. 28 Ibu Guru: Who says your brain = your being?

58 Ward Cleaver  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:08:08pm

I sent them a message.

Here's the link.

59 MARS Trucker  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:08:14pm

If it wasn't for negroid (sic) music, white rockers wouldn't be rockers. Jimmy Page might have grown up to be a (sorry) boring Violinist and Keith Richards would have grown up to be just an alcoholic...

60 Carolynp  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:09:13pm

Err...does anybody else think that the Kevin Strom guys LOOKS like the nazi guys in Indiana Jones?

One good thing about the Terri Schiavo case is that it has started discussion. If my hubby had asked me before this, I would've told him I didn't want to be kept alive artificially. It never occurred to me that I might be starved to death. We have really had deep long discussions about the whole piece. We have also started the ugly long process of codifying our wills.

61 American Infidel[deleted]  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:09:36pm
62 justdanny  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:10:22pm

elgoog

63 Dar ul Harb  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:10:47pm

"Don't be evil. Just link to it."

64 mardukhai  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:12:18pm

If you think that Google has a problem, try visiting the Yahoo "Jewish" chat room.

JEESH. Mostly anti-Semitic threats and filth.

Complaints go unanswered, even from the press.

65 ibu guru  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:12:35pm

#33 Americain

How can she improve when her husband has refused any kind of therapy for her to progress?

From what I've read, therapy was tried for awhile, but there was no result whatsoever. Her brain damage is so extensive and so severe that there is no therapy that can do anything for her.

I worked with a brain-injured child for a couple of years. There has to be a certain amount of brain function for therapy to do any good. Also, with a child, patterning exercises have a chance due to growth/developmental factors. For an adult, there are fewer options, and none once the brain cortex, cerebrum, cerebellum are destroyed. All that is left of Terri's brain is some limited brain stem function.

66 Anonymous Al  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:13:52pm
67 MARS Trucker  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:16:24pm

We need inspiration on this thread. Where is zulubaby and Bubblegirl?

68 jake  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:16:25pm
If it wasn't for negroid (sic) music, white rockers wouldn't be rockers. Jimmy Page might have grown up to be a (sorry) boring Violinist and Keith Richards would have grown up to be just an alcoholic...

If it wasn't for "negroid music", we could all be dancing to the sweet strains of such songs as the I Was Not a Nazi Polka.

I WAS NOT A NAZI POLKA
(N. Martin)

[The recording begins with a man sweetly singing in German. Another voice begins reciting as if translating:]

--As you travel through Der Schöne Deutschland,
--A melody will greet your ears.
--It's a melody that's been around in Deutschland
--For fifteen to twenty years.

Each and ev'ry German dances to the strain
Of the I Was Not a Nazi Polka.
All without exception join in the refrain
Of the I Was Not a Nazi Polka.

Goering wasn't crazy; he wanted to deport.
Sing the I Was Not a Nazi Polka.
We all thought that Dachau was just a nice resort.
Sing the I Was Not a Nazi Polka.

The German is so cultured, he does not like to fight.
The peaceful life is what he most enjoys.
For years, the German people were utterly convinced
** department manufactured children's toys.

I never shot a Luger or goosed a single step.
Sing the I Was Not a Nazi Polka.
Sing the I Was Not a Nazi Polka.
Sing the I Was Not a Nazi Polka.

--Was you not an SS guard? --I was not an SS guard.
I Was Not a Nazi Polka.
--Did you not love Ilsa Koch? --I did not love Ilsa Koch.
I Was Not a Nazi Polka.
--Did you not despise the Jews? --I did not; some of my best friends...
I Was Not a Nazi Polka.
--Did you not think Adolf great? --I did not. Adolf who?
--Adolf who! --Ja, Adolf who?
--Fritz, you're putting me on. --Was ist *** "putting me on"?
--Are you kidding me or something? --Nein, I'm not kidding you. Adolf who?
--Adolf Hitler. --Should I know him? Is he a folksinger?
--You don't remember. --Nein, I don't remember him. Who was he?
--Well,...

A little man, very mean, very loud and brash. --Mmm-mmm.
Not too tall, he never smiled, wore a black mustache. --Nein; I never heard...
He had a girl, Eva Braun, hair as red as flame. --Ah, ja, ja.
He papered walls for many years till his moment came. --Of course!

He's the one who clapped his hands, went into a dance.
When the news came to him that we had conquered France. --That's him!
He once said, when our flag proudly was unfurled,
"Today, Germany, tomorrow, the world!" [Becomes a hysterical chant] ...tomorrow, the world! ...tomorrow, the world! ...tomorrow, the world!
--I never heard of him. --Neither did I.

To our Israeli allies let us raise a toast.
Sing the I Was Not a Nazi Polka.
Sure there were some Nazis, two or three at most.
Sing the I Was Not a Nazi Polka.

We tried to throw off Hitler right from the very start.
That's what ev'ry hist'ry book should tell.
We hated Heinrich Himmler, Martin Bormann, too.
We believe as Sherman did that war is hell...hell...hell...hell...
[Again becomes a chant]...heil!...heil!...Seig heil!...Seig heil!...Seig heil!

Germans are as gentle as flowers in the spring.
Sing the I Was Not a Nazi Polka.
Germans are a people who love to dance and sing.
Sing the I Was Not a Nazi Polka.

--Wait a minute! Wait a minute! You there, you are not singing. Did you not like to sing? Tell me, you still have a family in Germany, nicht wahr? Sing!

Sing the I Was Not a Nazi Polka.
Seig heil!

69 SwampWoman  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:16:46pm

#54 ibu guru

She appears to have sufficient brain stem function to keep her heart beating, blink-reflex, not enough function for swallowing, food digestion, and other bodily functions. No idea whether she can feel pain. I still think it is horrible to keep someone with no hope of recovery of any sort on life support for 15 years.

And exactly what proof do you have of this?

70 justdanny  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:17:45pm

#59 MARS Trucker

The world's first electric guitar was created in 1928 by George Beauchamp with the help of craftsman Harry Watson.

71 jordan  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:18:04pm

#64

If you think the Jewish chats are obscene, look at the Arab ones. Absoultely vile from what little arabic I can understand. I think they have been mentioned here on prior posts.

ps. to the guy driving the Mercedes in NE Ohio with "VRWC" plates, you sir are my hero.

72 Dar ul Harb  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:18:47pm

Hey look, they've got Executive Intelligence Review and Worker's World too...

Do we really want to be hanging out there?

73 SwampWoman  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:18:56pm

#65 ibu guru

I worked with a brain-injured child for a couple of years. There has to be a certain amount of brain function for therapy to do any good. Also, with a child, patterning exercises have a chance due to growth/developmental factors. For an adult, there are fewer options, and none once the brain cortex, cerebrum, cerebellum are destroyed. All that is left of Terri's brain is some limited brain stem function.

And you have the MRI/CT scans to back this up?

74 MARS Trucker  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:18:57pm

Oops. PIMF or this may be the SNDT.

Where ARE zulubaby and Bubble Girl?

75 SwampWoman  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:19:58pm

This is just so unfair. I thought WE were the Nazis. Now they say that the Nazis are the Nazis.

76 SwampWoman  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:21:01pm

#74 MARS Trucker

Where ARE zulubaby and Bubble Girl?

Dude. Beauty sleep.

77 AtlasShrugged  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:21:13pm

they only conspire against greatness, Charles

78 Sarah D.  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:21:33pm

OT

Here's a pic eeevil conservative took at the hospice today. This is Terri's sister and Mr. Schindler while they are being told they won't be allowed in to see Terri.

Pic

79 Morgan  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:22:26pm

#58 Ward

Thank you for the link. I sent them a few of the anti-black articles. Sadly, sending the anti-Jewish articles would probably reinforce their view that the National Vanguard is a worthwhite source of news.

80 MARS Trucker  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:22:39pm

#68 jake
I would rather be dead than a freakin' Nazi.
I would rather be dirt poor than a freakin' Nazi.
Did I say I would rather be dead...F*ck Nazis.

81 pookleblinky  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:22:40pm

#43

The problem is that Google owns Blogger.

Unless you are willing to make Aliyah to Typepad or another blogging service, a boycott of Google by blogspot users is impossible.

82 justdanny  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:23:14pm

Which one came first , the electric guitar or rock and roll ?

Jimi Hendrix is at the core of all rock guitar that I care about.

83 Americain  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:24:46pm

#65 Ibu Guru

I have read some conflicting diagnosis on her condition. I don't believe that any real independant tests have been done.

Both sides are adamant in their beliefs.

I think that maybe some other tests should be done from a truly neutral perspective.

Before she dies would be nice.

84 Sarah D.  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:25:01pm

Actually, I should have linked to the picture galleries:

eeevil conservative's pic from St. Pete

85 pookleblinky  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:25:04pm

#82 justdanny

Dick Dale and Jimi Hendrix created electric rock.

You know Les Paul is still alive? He still plays.

86 MARS Trucker  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:25:06pm

#76 SwampWoman


Dude. Beauty sleep


No...I just think that the SNDT has taken over...

87 E.T.  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:25:39pm

It may be true that Terri does not have higher brain function I am not qualified to say.

Terrie’s husband abandoned her long ago. If he was her husband he would not have taken another woman, he would be there by her side now, he would not block her family from being by her side …. He is definitely not acting in a way a husband would. Since HE has abandoned the marriage, custody should be returned to the family.

88 MARS Trucker  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:25:47pm

...and they should be here

89 littleoldlady  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:26:55pm

I sent them a message too:

Dear Mr. Google,
Thank you very much for including the National Vanguard in your list of "legitimate news outlets". It's about time you recognized us Nazis as a force for truth, justice and the American way! Now, when a high school student runs a Google search for "holocaust" they'll get an informative article proving that the Holocaust never happened. And when an elementary teacher needs material on Black History month he or she will get a scientific treatise showing conclusively how blacks are inferior to whites. Screw the Jews and screw the Blacks. White Power is where it's at!
Very truly yours and Heil Hitler,
Eva Braun
90 MARS Trucker  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:27:26pm

...and zulubaby and Bubble Girl as well as the rest of our female Lizardoids are perfect the way they are...no beauty sleep required.

91 scooterbaby  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:31:35pm

#87 ET

Absolutey. Nobody can blame someone for wanting to go on in their life in this situation...but to not let those who love her take care of her is beyond understanding... At least my understanding. Why would anyone deny anyone life?

92 SwampWoman  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:32:39pm

#90 MARS

...and zulubaby and Bubble Girl as well as the rest of our female Lizardoids are perfect the way they are...no beauty sleep required.

Ha. Haha. Bwhahahahahahahaha! Okay. Okay. Get self under control. I'm sittin' here in flannel PJs with a blanket wrapped around me, my eyes all red and puffy, my nose all red and swollen, and a fever blister that would win first prize at a herpes festival. Baby, I don't need no beauty sleep, I need beauty HIBERNATION right now.

93 quark2  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:32:40pm

@54 ibu guru

Life support is dialisys, heart and lung respirator...not a feeding tube. Lot's of people are using feeding tubes, such as those who have lost too much of their colon and can no longer sustain food value from oral feedings. I have a friend who had colon cancer, and he has a feeding tube now.

94 jake  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:33:30pm

#80 MARS Trucker

I would rather be dead than a freakin' Nazi.
I would rather be dirt poor than a freakin' Nazi.
Did I say I would rather be dead...F*ck Nazis.

I think that's a sentiment we can all agree with. I just thought the song was ironic, given that it was written so many years ago and now we see that so many Europeans actually do think like this (where's bigel tonight, btw?). And now we see the alliance between the neo-Nazis in America and the useful idiots of the far left.

So, with all the Evil that is truly out there in the world, you have to try to keep a sense of humor somehow. And the simple fact is that Nazis, and neo-Nazis, were never able to do this simply because they took themselves so damn seriously!

95 SwampWoman  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:34:27pm

Lots of people have feeding tubes. Is a judge going to order them to be removed on their spouse's say so? I don't like this at all.

96 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:34:37pm
97 Malleus Dei  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:35:09pm

I bet Kos didn't object to the Neo-Nazi site, only to LGF.

98 AtlasShrugged  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:39:01pm

54 ibu

I still think it is horrible to keep someone with no hope of recovery of any sort on life support for 15 years.

hmmm really now. as horrible as watching her smile when her mother kisses her...as horrible as the expression on her face when her family walks inot the room ...as horrible as starving to death...as horrible as having a child you love being ripped from your arms and murdered by an unfeeling uncaring "husband" who wouldnt give her therapy or even let her out of the room for fresh air"

From Right Wing Nuthouse

This “Exit Protocol” is a recipe for how to kill someone by starvation and dehydration, and then manage their symptoms while they slowly die.

For instance, the nurses will put lip balm on Terri because her lips will crack, peel, and bleed from the dehydration.
~And her mouth will not open after a day or two…the aides will pry it open to do oral care. They’ll do a good job with it though.

They’ll use body lotion because Terri’s skin will begin to break down and show signs of flaking, drying, cracking, or being parched.
~Hopefully they’ll use a nice scented lotion so Terri can have stimulation. The aides will never forget the smell.

They’ll put a “scopolamine patch” behind her ear to enhance the drying up of saliva and other secretions.
~Can you imagine how your mouth would feel?

“Chux pads” will need to be used-and changed quite often because of incontinence of Terri’s bowels and bladder.
~Only for a few days. Then there will be nothing left to void. Ever had a UTI? That’s what it will feel like.

When Terri begins to writhe in pain (multifocal myoclonus) and she becomes agitated from metabolic changes and electrolyte imbalances due to no fluids or nutrition, the attending staff will have to give her 5 to 10 mg of Valium (diazepam)-rectally-every 4 hours.
~Ha. This will only “cure” the movements, not the pain. She will still have tears.

If Terri experiences a Grand Mal seizure, they’ll give her 15 mg of Valium immediately, and then as needed thereafter.
~Ever have a seizure? It’s not fun. And they can kill you.

When her body shows signs of an inability to breathe by gasping for air (dyspnea), they will immediately give Terri 2 to 4 mg of morphine every 4 hours.
~And the morphine will cause her respirations to decline even further, thus aiding in the process of her death.

And all of this will go on for 7 to 10 days…

99 realwest  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:39:47pm

#92 JustDanny - No doubt Jimi was PHENOMENAL! But, really,
Eric Clapton defines Rock and Roll Guitar (and he ain't but two or three down the list of Blues guitarists, either - at the recent Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction ceremonies, they inducted Buddy Guy (whom Hendrix was quoted as saying he [Buddy Guy] was my idol) and Guy, B.B. King and Clapton played some MEAN blues together; Guy and King both paid homage by saying Clapton was the best guitarist ever.
Rock and Roll came after the Electric Guitar - you should listen to some Les Paul (not a rocker by any means and he was recording long before rock began); that dude'll make your teeth fall out!

100 Beagle  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:40:30pm

National Nazi Vanguard is breaking the big Karl Rove in gay orgies story
This fits with the Left's ostracisim of Gannon for the same reasons. But they are totally for gay rights, especially Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian.

You know, Dick Cheney's lesbian daughter? Have you heard Dick Cheney has a lesbian daughter? We think that's great, his lesbian daughter. Who knows what weird things his lesbian daughter does with other women, but we support without question her right to do them.

/endless John Edwards and John Kerry loop

Of course the JOOOoooOOOooos are covering all this up:

Patriotic European-Americans are demanding answers to the allegations of sexual misconduct, abuses, and homosexual orgies participated in by elected politicians. The Jewish-controlled mass-media blackout of these chilling stories is continuing the skepticism felt by those seeking an honest and nationalist government.


Yes, the Left and Nazis are like bosom buddies, both socialists. Some things never change. Their non-aggression pact will last so long as there are supporters of individual freedom and democracy (but espcially Jews) left to kill. After that, it's major bloodbath time.

Google Nazi News, has a sort-of ring to it. I plan on using that from now on.

101 hepcat  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:40:47pm

About Google News
[Link: news.google.com...]

Q. What if I don't see my favorite news source in Google News?

A. We're as shocked as you are! If we're missing a publisher that we should be covering, please send us your ideas. While we can't guarantee that we'll heed your recommendation, but we do promise to review all the suggestions we receive without regard to political viewpoint or ideology.

Q. How do I find everything in Little Green Footballs that was written about Moonbats in the last month?

A. Sorry mate, you're sh*t out of luck.

102 Yankee Division Son  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:41:40pm
Very truly yours and Heil Hitler,
Eva Braun

Bwahahaha! ... kudos...

I'm more of a Yahoo! guy... haven't thought much of Google since they started linking to DailyKos kiddies... but this is beyond bizarre... one must wonder what's next? Links to Bagdad Bob's blog?

103 Globular Cluster  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:44:06pm

Google management are a bunch of Davos-loving, anti-globalization, spoiled fucktards. Stock is heavily overvalued and will get creamed in the long term when MS steals their business.

I used to be slightly loyal to them before I discovered the above. Frankly, I'll get my search results anywhere. How many shopping, mapping, auction sites do we need?

104 Verbal Kint  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:44:56pm
105 aRedPhishHead  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:45:11pm

Well now it is confirmed (for me at least) - I can recall in the runup to the election last year a story or a thread concerning the "algorithms" of the Google news selection process. The featured headlines and sources were ALWAYS from liberal publications (some regular newspapers, some from moonbat outposts)...I actually checked the FAQ section of the site to see what the criteria for seleciton of "news" sources was, and I was rather dissapiointed to learn that it was done "automatically" by computer algorithm. A cop-out, for sure.

I am convinced of the bias (partially through these posts), because if LGF, Powerline, other excellent and reputable blogs like the Northern Alliance blogs aren't included, then there is literally a whole SPHERE of valid (and apparently effective) internet news and commentary that is being systematically and mechanically ignored. Its not like Google would have to spend billions to add these sites to their lists so that their "algorithms" could work them into the pool of "sources." They do have room for Neo-nazis, however (Hitler was a socialist, after all).

Fee Fi Fo Fum - I smell the blood of moonbats...and isn't Google a supporter and contributor to the Democratic party and most recently to the Kerry Campaign?

The silence from the left is deafening...

106 Americain  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:45:36pm

#98 AtlasShrugged

Thank you for your post.

Do we let this happen to her because her husband said "She told me so", with no written proof?

Not without a fight.

107 Adrenalyn  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:45:43pm

MarsTrucker,


I lived in Georgia until 11th grade. Jimmy Carter and Lester Maddox's Georgia.

Moved to Oakland.

Saw the evail of racism from both sides.

In GA we had separate (but equal Archie, in an Edith voice) bathrooms and water fountains for the "coloreds" and they did indeed sit on the back of the bus. And the shanty towns they lived in would make a Tiquana resident blush.

Then in Oakland the shoe was on the other foot. From oppressor to oppressed - all in the time it took to fly cross country.

Ain't America great ?


But seriously folks...it is - we just have let the inmates run the asylum way too many times over the last 50 years.

108 Pro-Bush Canuck  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:47:20pm

I wrote an email to security@google.com

I disagree with Canada's "hate speech" laws as an infringement upon freedom of speech, however in this case I can and will report Google to the Canadian RCMP as having commited a possible criminal offense in this matter. Whether they have or have not, this information would be tremendously damaging to their public image.

Google as an organization is looking more and more like yet another front for the Left.

I am switching to Microsoft MSN search. Better the devil you know.

109 quark2  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:47:21pm

@92 SwampWoman

You poor poor baby, I know just how you feel...I was just beentheredonethat...you'll be relieved to know it only took me 6 weeks days to get over it. Thank heavens for round bales!

110 J.D.  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:48:14pm

#104 Verbal Kint

am i reallly here?


You are aware that there you spelled really with three Ls?

111 bbcrackmonkey  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:49:15pm

Zundel's Persecution: By Order of the Jews
OfficialWire, NY - Mar 7, 2005
... Voices. The text above is based on a broadcast of the American Dissident Voices radio program sponsored by National Vanguard Books.

112 J.D.  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:50:43pm

Verbal Kint
And you are aware that I typed 'that there' when I only meant to type 'that'?

113 SoCalJustice  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:53:08pm

Google's autoreply email doesn't give much comfort:

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts about Google News with us. Your feedback and suggestions are very important to us as we work to improve this service. We appreciate your support, and we hope that you'll visit Google News in the coming months to see our additions and improvements.

Regards,
The Google Team

114 rorschach  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:53:17pm

Yeah, but...National Vanguard sounds so...well, NATIONAL.

Isn't that what really counts?


Besides, LGF is associated with reptiles, for cryin' out loud.

115 Americain  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:53:21pm

J.D.

You better get off that there chair and walk 'round a bit. :^)

116 carolynp  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:53:26pm

#92: Swamp woman: I am so feeling your pain. Had the icks really bad last week: for what it's worth, I bundled up just like you are, only I added sitting around eating chocolate and feeling grouchy. When momma's sick, ain't nobody happy. Hope you feel better.

BTW, I came to LGF b/c someone recommended you to me as I was cyber-pummeling some idiot who insisted that a bunch of his pals who were coming back from Iraq said that abuse of civilians was the norm. I challenged moron guy to name names and pointed out that if he couldn't do such, he needed to shut the heck up. He mysteriously stopped posting...

117 aRedPhishHead  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:55:05pm

#113

That's exactly the kind of pap you can read in their FAQ section that is supposed to "answer" your questions...

I have several thousand questions that aren't on that list...

118 AtlasShrugged  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:56:13pm

thanks Americain

look, I just dont think this guy loves Terri...he sued for therapy bucks (1million), got it and never gave her therapy...after he pissed away the money and then met his current paramour...it was only then 7 years after her "accident" that Michael Schiavo "remembered" that she said that she wouldnt want to live like that (BTW I would, if I had a family that loved me and took care of me like that , I wouldnt want to miss a moment that but who are we to say? Who are we to quantify her happiness? Who are we to say her life is too small? Does that go for every person of limited capacity?)

I trust the mother. The mother would never keep the child alive if she thought it was "torture"...NEVER, I dont believe that for a nanosecond

G-d was drunk when he created Mothers

Remember what Ma Schiavo said earlier today
"She is my life"

Who do you beleive?

119 Verbal Kint  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:58:12pm

#110 J.D.

You are aware that there you spelled really with three Ls?


Actually I didn't notice I spelled it with three Ls. :)

120 zombie  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:59:45pm

Folks, I'm afraid that our threats to boycott (or simply not use) Google are completely ineffectual. They have hundreds of millions of users -- a few thousand more or less won't even register on their radar. Like it or not, Google has become the de facto search engine. Microsoft's new engine is reportedly crap in comparison, and Yahoo still runs a distant second to Google in thoroughness. Instead of saying "screw you" to Google, we should become more "pro-active" in our efforts and compel them to accept LGF.

I think a good first step is to take all the "exhibits" that Charles has pointed out over the last few months -- heinous Web sites that Google News includes -- and make a comprehensive list of them. Then, simultaneously, make a list of "original content" (like Rayra's photos earlier today) and other stories "broken" by LGF. The we should bombard Google with this evidence. We need to shame them into it.

I think there must be something going on behind the scenes to explain Google's refusal to include LGF. My guess is that either the anti-LGF stalker over at LGFWatch, and/or any number of DUmmies who baselessly accuse LGF of "racism" got to the editors at Google news first, and slandered our reputation there. The editors now have a preconceived idea of what LGF is like (i.e. a "hate site") based on the lies of the anti-LGF crowd.

We need to overturn this impression. Someone (sorry it can't be me -- for some reason Charles' "Search" function works very slow for me) please compile a list of all the LGF postings of ludicrous Google News sources. And add on any others you find. Let's get started on this thing.

121 jake  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 6:59:51pm

These National Vanguard guys don't really qualify as "mini Eichmans". More like "mini-Streichers". Something Awful recently posted a great essay mocking a repulsive little children's book written by this little-known Nazi propagandist with the unwieldy title of "Never Trust a Fox in His Green Meadow and Never Trust the Oath of a Jew."

Julius Streicher was hanged to death in 1946. He had to be dragged to the gallows kicking, spitting, and screaming at his jailors. As he approached the hangman's noose he shrieked "Heil Hitler!" As the stone-faced Americans in their pressed green uniforms pushed him up the steps he cried "And now I go to God!" Finally, as the executioners slipped the noose around his neck rage boiled across his features and he stared with hatred at the witnesses. "Purimfest 1946!" he cried. The lever was pulled...

His strange last words resonated with the Jews who heard them. Purim is the Jewish celebration of deliverance from Haman, the ruler of Persia, who sought to exterminate the Jews and ended up being hanged. The fact that Streicher empathized with Haman does not lessen the truth of his mad words. The Jewish people had once again barely survived to witness justice exacted on those who would see the Jews exterminated.

Streicher is infamous among those who have more than a casual interest in the Second World War. For the rest of the population his name is half-forgotten next to villains like Hitler, Goebbels, Goering, and Himmler. Streicher's particular brand of evil was insidious and low key. It was clever in a way that Hitler's vitriolic speeches and Goebbels' ridiculous propaganda were not. It was the black font from which sprung the slow rot of the German spirit.

Among other things, Julius Streicher wrote children's books. He was the goose stepping Dr. Seuss of Nazi Germany.

Something tells me that our recently-banned troll "Moishe Pipick" was screaming "Purimfest 2005" to an empty room after getting kicked off of LGF by Charles. I think these guys study so much about Jews and Judaism, trying to find the secret key that will let them into "the conspiracy", that their brains are warped with a twisted Jew-envy that goes beyond the regular brand of anti-semitism.

122 Dave Brown  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:00:02pm

Note to the geniuses at Google:


"You state:

'We're pleased to work with individual publishers to ensure their content is appropriately represented in Google News.'

'Our headlines are selected by computer algorithms'

[Link: news.google.com...]

Ya. Google is only following computational orders.

Bottom line: if your organization is half-witted and racist enough to give credence to an openly pro-Nazi 'news service' I will work tirelessly to help bring you down.

[Link: www.nationalvanguard.org...]
[Link: www.google.com...]

My employer (a large corporation with >150,000 employees) currently uses Google as an intranet and internet search engine.

I will be contacting our Corporate ethics department to insist that they discontinue our Company's business relationship with Google.

By linking to Google, a company which gives prefered access to an openly racist organization, our web development team is violating several of our Company policies.

Have a heart-to-heart with your algorithms. Soon."

LGF readers, I urge you to contact Google:

[Link: www.google.com...]

Better yet, post something on Yahoo's investor's message board for Google:

[Link: finance.yahoo.com...]

124 J.D.  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:00:26pm

#115 Americain
I'm plumb tuckered out.

125 quark2  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:00:47pm

@110 JD

You are aware that there you spelled really with three Ls?


Hey you're right...Verbal Kint realx3y did! *lol

126 Sarah D.  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:02:23pm

Swampwoman,

Are you still sick? I thought you were feeling better after your husband made you eat?

Dang! Do I need to drive up there and feed the critters for you?

127 ajackson  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:02:25pm

What next - the (North) Korea News Service? I guess I should google for "Hair care tips from Kim Jung-Il". Or "101 recipes using just grass, bark, and leaves".

128 MARS Trucker  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:05:45pm

#99 realwest
I saw Les Paul once a long time ago (in the Late 70's or early 80's) before sequencers came out. He had come up with box mounted on his guitar not unlike the Mellotron. Pretty cool, he would lay down a bass lick, two rhythm lines, and then play a lead line over what he had just sequenced.

129 Orbit Rain  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:05:51pm

...MSM isn't interested in this story...lgf is the competition after all...but then...so is Google...news...

130 Iron Fist[deleted]  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:06:14pm
131 Americain  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:06:22pm

AtlasShrugged

I believe in a mothers instincts.

There are too many unanswered questions in this case that need to be answered .

Those of you lizards who believe in the power of prayer need to say one for Terri Schiavo.

Good night all, need to get up early tomorrow.

132 AtlasShrugged  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:07:58pm

amen

133 ibu guru  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:08:19pm

#69 Swamp Woman

Court-appointed doctor determined there was no hope of recovery. Actually, from what info I've read over the past few years, medical testimony has been presented in every court case, and so far 19 judges have agreed, based on the reports of medical experts testifying, that there was no hope of any degree of recovery.

Three doctors, including the one appointed by the court, testify that Terri is in a persistent, vegetative state with no hope of recovery.

Timeline

The Schindlers' "experts" include a certified nurse's assistant who says she put a moistened washcloth to Terri's mouth and Terri could swallow drops of apple juice from the washcloth, a speech therapist who has never examined Terri, etc.

134 AtlasShrugged  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:08:30pm

goodnight Americain

135 Beagle  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:08:30pm

There are so many things I never thought I'd see in my lifetime which have happened in the last ten years. A few of them are good. The Nazi 'information' autobahn to PC's worldwide isn't one of the good ones.

136 Roger  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:10:53pm

#131 Americain, I think King Solomon could figure this one out readily.

137 Quilly Mammoth  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:10:57pm

How quaint; a Holocaust denier and a blood-libel invoker standing shoulder to shoulder.
[Link: www.nationalvanguard.org...]

The darlings of the Politically Correct.

138 J.D.  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:12:58pm

#125 quark2
That was a bit nitpicky on my part, though, if I do say so myself.

139 Jakester  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:14:25pm

Along with the Arab News, I imagine?

140 J.D.  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:15:33pm

OT
Here's an attempt to smear Paul Wolfowitz.
Will a British divorcee cost 'Wolfie' his job?

141 Beagle  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:15:38pm

#133 ibu guru

Thanks for that list. As I suspected, the appellate courts are loathe to overturn the factual findings of Judge Greer. Appellate courts do not re-try the case. All roads led through and were blocked by Judge Greer's findings.

I'd like to hear what Greer thinks is dispositive on her so-called vegitative state. Brain science is in its infancy compared to astronomy. Yet in astronomy we're just now formulating the important questions, much less answering them.

142 Spiny Norman  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:16:28pm

Hate to admit this, but I knew about National Vanguard long before I found LGF.

A buddy of mine found it linked on a firearms bulletin board website and couldn't believe what he was reading.

I wonder if Stormfront is linked by Google News...

143 Megan  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:17:07pm

The Nazis had a CounterPunch article and link comparing Ward Churchill and Winston Churchill. Take a wild guess which of the two was portrayed more favorably. link

144 Lady of Shalott (ylreveb)  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:18:20pm

Charles, are you sure you didn't Spurn the Advances of someone in the Google heirarchy?

What else could it be but the Pangs of Misprized Love?

145 quark2  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:25:44pm

@137 Quilly Mammoth


The darlings of the Politically Correct.

The modern tools of the trade of course.

146 Protagonist  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:30:18pm

My goodness! Have I been responsible for a thread hijack?! I don't know whether to be sorry or proud of myself.

But seriously, we know this much:

(1) Serious questions exist as to whether Schiavo is cognizant

(2) Serious questions exist as to whether she wanted to be kept alive.

(3) If the federal and state system of law is to be consisant--let along just--then Schiavo should be granted the same deferance toward life that a mass-murderer on death row would get.

I'll add as an aside, if the liberal powers-that-be choose to belligerantly oppose this, it will mean that end of the right-to-die movement in this country. This isn't just about people refusing medical treatment anymore; this is a morbid bloodlust exhibited by the collective left to blank-out undesirable specimens of humanity.

147 inverted trof  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:32:52pm

For those in "search" of a decent search engine, I recommend

www.icerocket.com

148 john blake  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:33:47pm

vote in house

174 yes

49 no

3 min left

149 quark2  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:35:00pm

@138 JD

I thought it was kind of a cute welcome aboard. :)

Hope the newbies realize they must grow their first lizardoid minion skin very thick and very fast!

150 john blake  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:35:26pm

now 188 yes 52 no

151 J.D.  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:35:55pm

#147 inverted trof
Welcome!
I admit it; I'm fairly dense sometimes.
But what is a trof?

152 Roger  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:37:05pm

#147 inverted trof, you registered 02/14/05 07:14:46 PM and waited till now to make one single comment to tell us that?

FOAD

153 blackpajamas  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:40:39pm

OT:

Schiavo vote passes in the house

Yea: 202
Nay 58
Not Voting: 175

154 J.D.  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:40:43pm

Roger, take it easy, will you?
I want to know what a trof is and then I'm going to bed.

155 KingKenrod  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:41:44pm

I would like to see LGF indexed at Google. You can ask for its inclusion here. I don't know if it will do any good.

I think (as has been stated before) that LGF is mostly a news aggregator, not a news creator, and as such Google sees it as a competitor. They don't index Daily Kos, Right Wing News, Ankle Biting Pundits, or Free Republic either (that I could tell, anyway). Yes, I know LGF does original pieces, but it doesn't seem like many, and not on a regular basis.

And while including propaganda "news" sources like National Vanguard, DU, Kilafah, or KCNA is laughable, if you read the Google mission statement (to include news sources regardless of political affiliation), I actually think it's for the best. It's like shining a light on cockroaches. When the shit hits the fan (like during Memogate, Easongate, Churchillgate, etc) isn't it extremely valuable to have a tool like Google news as a source of information? Do we really want them trying to determine what "legitimate" news is? Even propaganda is valuable information because it tells you what the enemy is doing.

156 J.D.  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:43:07pm

Does this mean they'll put the feeding tube back in?
Fast?
Who were the 'no' votes?

157 Innismir  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:43:46pm

ATTENTION SCHIAVO FLAME-WAR-TYPES:

Please read this before continuing your arguments:

[Link: abstractappeal.com...]

It's a very unbiased look at the Schiavo case. Everyone arguin here have certain facts wrong.

(My opinion, she is a vegetable, the parents are anthromorphizing movement and chatter like I anthromorphize my cat meowing, and it is extremely sad that she has to die of starvation rather then have a painless euthnasia. This has turned my opinion around on euthanasia laws. [Used to be against, now pro])

/This is not a troll
//Please return to your normal thread...

158 cjstavern  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:44:51pm

#156 JD

Mostly from the party of death.

159 Roger  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:45:56pm

#154 J.D.

[Link: twister.sbs.ohio-state.edu...]
[Link: www.comet.ucar.edu...]
or ask Ed for details.

Or have a conversation with a spambot.

160 Innismir  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:46:07pm

[b]#153 blackpajamas[/b]
Oh dear $DEITY...

Has anyone seen my Republican party? You know, the one that tries to keep government out of people's business? I'm sure I misplaced it around here someplace. I can't seem to find it.

161 inverted trof  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:46:52pm

#152

Thanks for the kind words Rog...I may tear up from your heartfelt "Welcome Aboard". If you must know...I am Navy. I registered and had to go out for a while. Let's just say bandwidth is an issue underway. Thanks for the FOAD anyway. At least you care.

#151

I am in Navy METOC (weather)...trof is just a way to say trough (of the atmospheric variety). Inverted refers to it's orientation in the atmosphere.

162 MARS Trucker  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:49:46pm

#128 MARS Trucker

This is for you Joe Meek types out there. As I recall, Les Paul also made the first multi-track recording...I think, you sound engineers should know that one right off. I am not a sound engineer, I just played keys and guitar and pretended to run the mixer on occasion.

163 J.D.  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:51:46pm

OH! inverted trough! I've heard of those!
Navy! Well, welcome aboard!

164 brainsample  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:52:13pm

I'm a lawyer who has clients sign Advance Health Care Directives as a matter of course. Often times they direct that artificial nutrition and hydration be withheld when it's determined they are in a terminal condition. After reading Atlas Shrugged's description of Terri's pending death, I'm terrified and I wonder if I'm meeting my obligation to my clients.

It seems that when we're young and healthy, it's easy to be cavalier.

Yeah, shit! Pull the plug! Who wants to live like that?

I have a hunch, though, that life is pretty damned precious to us, and to our families, even if we have to be fed through a tube and we have to crap in a bag.

Or perhaps our medical ability to keep people alive has long since outpaced our tolerance and devotion to one another.

165 Dave Brown  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:53:03pm

Hey.

Screw "Google":

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

You're in "Wikipedia"!

How cool is that? Damn!


[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

166 PollyPrissypants  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:53:14pm

Welcome, inverted trof! (And thank you for your service)

167 inverted trof  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:55:21pm

#163

Thanks...so can we "post at will" or do we have to wait for a personal email from Roger giving us permission?

168 J.D.  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:56:20pm

#164 brainsample
I wasn't quite ready for the description of her last days.
My husband's aunt decided to do that. Everyone said their goodbyes really quickly one day and several days later, she was gone. Now, I can't even bear to think of it.

169 Sarah D.  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 7:58:18pm

From eeevil conservative who is on site:

Terri Schiavo's sister Suzanne,

"Thank you, we are very very very thankful that Congress passed this bill. We are very hopeful that the Federal courts will follow the rule of Congress and save my sisters life."

170 J.D.  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:00:01pm

#167 inverted trof
Just dive right in. He might have just been exercising you.
It happens sometimes.
But, please, make yourself at home. You'll have to introduce yourself to Ed, the resident weatherman. He was in the Navy.

171 quark2  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:00:11pm

@161 inverted trof

We have an old timer lgfer who will be wild when he finds out about you and your association to weather. :)

Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades...who is our own backyard wanna be weather man.

172 Protagonist  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:00:12pm

More OT,

For those who think that Terri's case is hopeless, I suggest they read this book, another future-shock by Ray Kurzweil.

It's thesis--giving the possible, nay probable, advances in biotechnology and nanotechnology, virtually immortal physical and mental health will be possible within most of our lifetimes. In the next 20-50 years, they're going to come out with stuff that will make the most fabulist stories of science-fiction into commonplace fact.

173 richard mcenroe  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:00:19pm

Charles, ya shoulda just comped them the patches...

174 hunter888  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:01:35pm

NYTOL

I Gotta go gotta go, before I say something stupid...

The smoker I drink, the player I get...

175 Innismir  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:03:13pm

#172 Protagonist
Not to be a cynic, but I am still waiting for my flying car that they promised my parents in the 1950s.

176 Self Hating Muslim  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:03:53pm

They still index Al-Jazeera, why would this be any different?

A Google News search for "Jew" is rather telling...

All gentile children are animals. (Yebamoth 98a)

When a Jew murders a gentile, there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep. (Sanhedrin 57a)

Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg declared, "We have to recognize that Jewish blood and the blood of a goy are not the same thing." (NY Times, June 6, 1989)

All demonstrably false yet widely used by various publications, including now it seems, Al-Jazeera who no doubt (like the MSM) subject op-ed pieces such as the above to different fact-checking requirements.

177 quark2  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:04:52pm

@167 inverted trof

*LMAO!

You're off to a good start...I can see your new lizardoid skin is getting thick!

178 inverted trof  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:06:30pm

Hmmm...I knew an Ed in the Navy when I was stationed in Yokosuka, Japan. He retired about 8 years ago. I wonder...nah, couldn't be.

179 Roger  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:06:59pm

#167 inverted trof, I apologies. Didn't think I was replying to a human. You Navy and familiar with inverted trofs? Welcome.

180 KingKenrod  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:07:18pm

OT

For all those commenting on the Terri Schiavo videos...

I've watched many of them myself, and my opinion is that they are propaganda created by her family to give an appearance of responsiveness, not actual evidence that she has higher brain functions. I think that if you actually watched hours and hours of video, you would see that her actions are entirely autonomic, not at all related to external stimuli. What you are seeing is the few moments where her responses coincide with something else going on (waving a balloon, playing music). It's sad, but even the Schindler's doctors have agreed most of Terri's higher brain is gone. Not inactive, but actually gone, the tissue has died and been dissoved.

Yes, it's heartbreaking. But as she doesn't seem to be suffering, she should be allowed to live. There's very little evidence she would choose to die (though must of us would, I think), and Florida Law says they must err on the side of life. The husband is living with another woman and has a family. I also have big problems with the husband's doctor, who seems to be some kind of euthanasia advocate.

181 J.D.  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:07:51pm

#178 inverted trof
Did the Ed you knew drink...very much...by any chance?

182 Roger  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:08:44pm

And in many locations?

183 J.D.  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:10:41pm

*MANY* locations!

184 quark2  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:11:00pm

OT

From WND...yeah yeah I know...here's a snippet of the faux pas that Terri Shiavo's husband commited on Larry King...


Shortly after saying his determination to end Terri's life was about her wishes, Schiavo changed his story in the King interview. Asked if he understood her family's feelings, he said: "Yes, I do. But this is not about them, it's about Terri. And I've also said that in court. We didn't know what Terri wanted, but this is what we want. ..."

The bolding emphasis is mine.


(hat tip: NY Nana)

185 Innismir  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:11:59pm

#180 KingKenrod
Actually, FL courts repeatedly came to the conclusion that she wanted to die. The husband, rather then make the decision himself, asked the courts to rule on whether or not enough evidence existed that she did want to die rather then be kept alive. They ruled that there was. As for the other woman thing, I think the husband has moved on with his life, which is something the parents have yet to do.

Again: [Link: abstractappeal.com...]

186 Lady of Shalott (ylreveb)  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:12:56pm

Did any of you peeps click through to the Vanguard's articles? Here's a sample (lots in this artery):

"The Good Jew"

"The myth of the “good Jew” is a pervasive one. The “good Jew,” of course, is the Jew(s) the speaker knows personally, and those he interprets as being committed to “humane” values—unlike misguided Jews (typically, but not always, identified as “Zionists” today).

"Jewish power is one thing. But the remarkable psychological effect Jews have on Gentiles, White and non-White alike, strongly suggests that Gentiles possess a fatal psychological blindness that Jews exploit to their advantage. Every ethnic group on earth falls prey to Jews in precisely the same way. They all make the same mistakes."

Actually, the neo-Nazis should be worshipping these mysteriously powerful people, the way they carry on about them. It's bizarre, really. Attributing superhuman intelligence and power to a group of people, then claiming they're inferior? gives the brain vapor-lock.

187 KingKenrod  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:14:10pm

Protagonist:

That's an excellent point. I've read Kurzweil's book and it's fascinating. I don't agree that the advances he theorizes will be available in 20 years (more like 50 to 100 if you ask me), but it's interesting that indeed if Terri lives long enough, there might be hope she can regain some lost fuction. We are talking about serious reconstruction here, though, rebuilding brain tissue is going to be an advance that is far, far in the future.

I think it's pretty clear her personality and memories are gone, however. It really is an issue that the person she is (the one that everyone knew before 1990) no longer really exists. The ethical issues surrounding all of this are staggering.

188 inverted trof  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:14:38pm

Ed was known to drink to excess...and fall victim to the bad decsions that usually follow...where hilarity would normally ensue. But seriously is this "Ed" an older guy...maybe 45-50ish? With the anonymity that is common on boards these days, no one probaly knows.

189 jaybird  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:15:57pm

I saw Michael Schiavo last night on TV for the first time, and I got the total creeped out heebeejeebee willies, a television-watching phenomena which has only happened to me twice before in my life. The first time was when I saw Charlie Manson on TV in 1969 when he was arrested for the Tate LaBianca murders, and the second time was when I saw Ted Bundy on TV in 1979 when he defended himself in court. Complete evil, once, twice, three times.

But then, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Michael is entitled to inherit the bucks in the bank that were awarded for Terri's rehab, but for which not one dime was ever spent. And maybe he and his new little pin cushion girlfriend really are looking out for Terri. And maybe Terri's broken bones have a totally innocent explanation.

But even excusing all that, I still can't get over the willies, nor the fact that if you called over to central casting and asked them to to send you over someone to play the role an abusive bully thug of a husband, the character they would send you would be Michael Shiavo.

190 J.D.  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:17:43pm

#188 inverted trof

But seriously is this "Ed" an older guy...maybe 45-50ish?


Darnit! And you started out so well, I thought.

191 Lady of Shalott (ylreveb)  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:19:45pm

#121 Jake

I'm relieved to see that Moist Dipstick was kicked off. I'm afraid it baited me into some angry posting the other night. Ugh.

192 inverted trof  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:20:17pm

Ed was also a prior enlisted guy who retired as a LT (via the LDO route). Very smart guy. I first met him when he was a Chief. He retired in 1995. He got around so much that all of us that worked for him always gave his name when the "professionals" that worked at the bars in all the far east ports we hit would ask us our name. He received many an unsolicited "HO-Gram" due to our generosity.

193 Robert D  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:21:47pm

#179 Roger

Think now, Iron Fist rule. And if you are not drunk, check to see if somebody messed with your keyboard.

194 inverted trof  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:23:03pm

But, it couldn't be him, because he couldn't even turn on a computer, much less, "make it go" as he referred to it. So it's probably just some weather geek (like myself).

195 J.D.  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:23:03pm

#193 Robert D
Hi there! I see you've been finding your way around just fine.

196 Robert D  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:27:34pm

#195

HI! J.D. Just takes a little encouragement. I told you I'd get better at it. Now I'm sure I'll be told shut up too...:-)

197 NY Nana  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:28:37pm

#184 Quark2♥

My husband thanks you, my 4 kids thank you, my 2 daughters in law, my 1 son in law, and my 2 granddaughters and I thank you for the hat tip! :) Whooops, I forgot to thank the Academy!

(Note to Charles: harrrumph!:)

I can't even think of going to sleep till President Bush signs the Federal bill...then we wait to see what the Judge and court will do...God bless the President for coming back to DC for this. He is a mensch.

Here is the link to the article:Terri's death wish or Michael's?:Schiavo contradicts himself in Larry King interview

IMHO, this should be admitted as evidence.

Uh, has anyone mentioned that Ed is the official LGF weatherman? :) I can't remember if he ever was in Saudi Arabia and had a drink there.

198 Lady of Shalott (ylreveb)  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:29:26pm

#161 inverted trof

Hey, Sailor, what ship? ;-)

Watch for Ed "Mahmoud", our resident weatherman. Y'all can have inscrutable conversations with each other.

199 zombie  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:31:02pm
#192 inverted trof  3/20/2005 10:20PM PST

Ed was also a prior enlisted guy who retired as a LT (via the LDO route). Very smart guy. I first met him when he was a Chief. He retired in 1995. He got around so much

#194 inverted trof  3/20/2005 10:23PM PST

But, it couldn't be him, because he couldn't even turn on a computer, much less, "make it go" as he referred to it. So it's probably just some weather geek (like myself).

I dunno, your description sounds exactly like him. It's entirely possible that in the last 10 years he (like most people) learned how to use a computer.

Further questions: Did your "Ed" brag about drinking in different locales? Did he like listening to punk rock? Did he have a connection to the Houston area? All of those apply to "our" Ed.

200 dcbatlle  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:32:39pm

I won't be using Google anymore.

201 NY Nana  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:32:51pm

#188 inverted trof

And I was just about to welcome you! :=(

But seriously is this "Ed" an older guy...maybe 45-50ish?

Ed is a kid if he is that age...I am 67...and mean! :)

Seriously, welcome!

202 sngnsgt  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:33:40pm

OT
The DUmmies have a new "poll" feature and this one is on Draft conspiracy theories. Too funny.

203 J.D.  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:37:21pm

Well, this [rolls eyes] "older" lady is going to bed now.
You all take care.

204 inverted trof  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:39:28pm

#201...

When using the word "older" I implied "older than me". Not necessarily old in the biologic carbon-dating sense. 45-50 isn't that much older than me (37), anyway.

205 Roger  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:41:18pm

#193 Robert D, not drunk. Got back from playing hockey. Can't sleep. And it was really me messing with the keyboard:-/

206 Robert D  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:42:21pm

#203 J.D.

G'nite. And just remember what you started.

207 zombie  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:42:40pm

Bush just signed the Terri bill! Minutes ago. Now it's law.

208 Carolynp  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:43:49pm

You know, it occurs to me that Schiavo contradicts himself with his actions: if he truly believes that his ex-wife is a non-sentient creature, why would he care if she is kept alive on someone else's dime? I mean, for the sake of her wishes, I could understand some token resistance, but after all, she doesn't know what's going on, why not just let her live for the sake of her parent's? His behavior suggests that he believes that she's truly in there and cares about her quality of life, doesn't it?
Hmm...
Welcome Inverted Trof. Do you have something else you want us to call you? Like "Bob" or something?

209 Robert D  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:44:30pm

#205 Roger

Hockey will also mess with your keyboard ;-)

210 NY Nana  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:44:52pm

#204 inverted trof

One of my sons is your age...sure, now you're weaseling your way out of it! :)

Just check my little green football to see my real age!

211 Sarah D.  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:46:43pm

#208 Carolynp

Good points.

#201 NY Nana

(((NY Nana!)))

Did you see Elcid has been gracing us with his presence?

Hope you are well.

212 Carolynp  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:50:41pm

I have to get off to sleep.
OT: Isn't it cool to have a President who will stay up until 2 am to sign a life saving measure? Bush rocks.

213 racefuels  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:51:11pm

Congress Passes Legislation in Schiavo Case
Lawmakers Raced Back to Capitol for Special Vote on 'Terri's Bill'
By JIM ABRAMS, AP


News Alert: President Bush has signed legislation allowing a federal court review the Terri Schiavo case.

WASHINGTON (AP) - Congress approved emergency legislation early Monday to let Terri Schiavo's parents ask a federal judge to prolong their daughter's life, capping days of emotional debate over who should decide life and death.

President Bush waited at the White House to sign the measure permitting a federal review of the case, which could trigger the reinsertion of feeding tubes needed to keep the brain-damaged Florida woman alive.

The House passed the bill on a 203-58 vote after calling lawmakers back for an emergency Sunday session for debate that stretched past midnight.

The Senate approved the bill Sunday by voice vote.

Republican supporters said the "Palm Sunday Compromise" seeks to protect the constitutional rights of a disabled person and rejected suggestions that political motives lay behind the last-minute maneuver.

"When a person's intentions regarding whether to receive lifesaving treatment are unclear, the responsibility of a compassionate nation is to affirm that person's right to life," said House Judiciary Committee Chairman James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis. "In our deeds and public actions, we must build a culture of life that welcomes and defends all human life."

Many Democrats who opposed the bill said the congressional vote placed lawmakers in the middle of issues best left to state courts and family members.

"Today, congressional leaders are trying to appoint Congress as a judge and jury," said Rep. Jim Davis, D-Fla. "If we do not draw the line in the sand today, there is no limit to what democratic principles this Congress will ignore or what liberties they may trample on next."

House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Ill. and others rejected the description of the brain-damaged woman as persisting in a "vegetative" state.

"She laughs, she cries and she smiles with those around her. She is aware of her surroundings and is responsive to them," he said. "This is a woman who deserves a chance at life and not a death sentence of starvation and dehydration."

Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., rejected the notion that elected lawmakers could accurately diagnose her condition.

"The caption tonight ought to be: We're not doctors, we just play them on C-SPAN," he said.

03-20-05 22:08 EST

214 KingKenrod  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:52:15pm

Innismir

I pretty much agree with a lot of what you say, but I did read the court's ruling and summary of the evidence (I don't know if the transcripts of the interviews with family memebers, experts, and cross-examination are available). Schiavo removed himself from the decision, but then again he and (I believe) one sibling and a sister-in-law were the only source of evidence about Terri's wish to die. The court found them credible and other evidence not-so-credible, even though they knew that Michael Schiavo stood to gain a lot of money should they pull the tube on Terri. My point in all of this is that the court's position should be if there is any doubt about what the patient would decide, they must err on the side of life. The appellate courts never re-examined this question, they only examined whether the trial court (Greer) had acted in accordance with the law (whether he had sufficient evidence, weighed the medical questions, etc).

Many people are trying to demonize Michael Schiavo, and I think that's unfair. I don't want to do that. My point of view is that he has started a family with someone else, but has not divorced Terri, this raises a question about whether he is truly the person who should make the decision...if he wants to be her husband, he must at least behave like one, and that includes being faithful. What he is doing is grounds for divorce in every state. No one could fault him for wanting to move on with his life, but he must choose to move on, and that means severing legal ties that give him control over Terri's destiny. I think he has abandoned his position.

The parents need to do some serious moving on too, as you say. But who am I to tell them to? I find the outpouring of support for Terri heartening (and pretty naive when considering the facts of her situation).

215 Robert D  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:52:24pm

So, Ed. Changed your nic again?

216 Robert D  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:55:04pm

#212 Carolynp

I couldn't agreemore!

217 NY Nana  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:56:43pm

#207 Zombie!

Thank you! Here is an article:Bush signs Schiavo legislation

Please note the poll..vote, if you want to send a message..the vote now is sickening..but this is alleged MSM

#211 Sarah D.

I did, posted to him, and we are emailing. I had treid to get him back for ages. I was so happy to see him actually post! Thanks.

{*{*{*{*{*{Sarah D,}*}*}*}*}*}*}

Is kiddo still acting like an almost teen ager? In a word? Oy!

218 pdotfu  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 8:59:09pm

133, ibu guru, what is the purpose of executing her just because she is disabled? If her parents want to maintain her why the hell do you care? Isn't this strange to you? In all the world of crazy stuff going on you stick at keeping a disabled woman alive like it is a crime. I am amazed.

219 Jheka  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 9:01:18pm

The National Vanguard? ! ? Holy moly. What next? Rense? What Really Happened? Jew Watch? I mean, why not? They are all on par or more benign than The National Vanguard.

Re: Schiavo:

The federal judge that hears the case will be picked at random by a computer. Get the wrong one and it's back to square one.

Of course, most federal judges would like to one day be appellate court judges, for which a Presidential nomination and Senate approval is necessary so ...

220 zombie  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 9:05:04pm

My two cents, tossed futilely into the maelstrom of Schiaviosis:

This entire case rests on a very simple question: Did Terri leave explicit instructions for her to not be kept on a feeding tube? If not, then Michael Schiavo has no legal case. One needs a legally-binding document -- like an Advance Healthcare Directive -- in a situation like this. Without a binding contract or testament, then he cannot legitimately claim to know what her desires are.

The Web site linked to above in comment #185 bases its entire argument on the legalistic rulings of the judge in the case -- a judge who obviously has a personal vendetta against Terri's parents. On this crucial question (of Terri's intent), the site refers to a legal decision by the judge that he felt it had been demonstrated that Terri would have wanted to be unplugged. But what was this decision based on? Apparently, Michael Schiavo produced a couple of his friends who acted as witnesses in the case supporting his claim that Terri "was the kind of person" who would want to be unplugged. Michael's entire case rests on what he claims was a single instance of Terri saying "I wouldn't want to live like that" when they were watching a TV show about life-support or something. If indeed she ever did say that (for which there is no real evidence), little did she think that this cavalier statement would one day be her death sentence.

Secondly (and here we're getting into murkier waters), I still don't grasp the position of people who say that the severity of her brain damage means that her life is not worth living. Even if we were to grant that she was "vegetative" (and I'm still not convinced of that), does that imply that she's less human? There is no scientific test that shows that a person with severe brain damage does not have a "soul." We've gotten to the point where we are trusting bought-and-paid-for court doctors' testimony as to who is human and who is not.

This is a very slippery slope. Once we say "brain damage of type X means you're not human anymore" then we're drifting into Mengele territory. Human "experts" will be determining if undesirables merit remaining alive.

If you support Terri being killed, just imagine yourself one day, 40 years from now, in a wheelchair unable to move or speak, but still with the desire to live, sitting in a courtroom listening to some doctor-for-hire saying that, because of your condition, you don't have a soul and should be unplugged. Do you really want us as a society to go down that road?

I say all this and I am not a Christian, not a religious person at all, and I even think the world is way overpopulated. Yet there is a non-theological moral basis to defend Terri's life.

221 Sarah D.  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 9:05:29pm

#217 NY Nana

Oy is correct! I may have to take out anther loan to send her to military prep school. But, she is still fabulous!

I was THRILLED to see Elcid! Glad that you are keeping in touch with him.

222 Robert D  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 9:12:18pm

#220 zombie

WOW! That says it all for me.

223 newton  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 9:15:22pm

You made great points, Zombie.

Thank You!

224 viperDisorder  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 9:18:00pm

Whoo Hooo
thanks God Mr. Pres stayed up late after flying back to sign this reprieve!
What a stud GWB is.
What a pack of lusers the DEMS are
Did you see that bastard asking Killery for help
HAHAHAHAHAHA
thank the lord! what a great thing to happen on a SAD palm sunday!

225 Jheka  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 9:22:44pm

#224 viperDisorder:

Do you know what a moby is?

226 viperDisorder  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 9:26:17pm

No, is it good
does not sound good

227 mardukhai  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 9:34:29pm

Must be a corollary to Godwin's Law...

228 Sarah D.  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 9:41:37pm

Bush Signs the Bill

eeevil is sooo excited. I just hope she comes home soon so I can go to BED!

229 zombie  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 9:57:32pm

#228 Sarah D.
Sounds encouraging!
I just posted a comment on Sherri's blog.

230 Sarah D.  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 9:58:51pm

zombie,

Yes it does. And thanks, Sherri will be thrilled that you posted a comment.

Thanks!

231 MikeO  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 10:05:37pm

Charles,

I am not a lawyer, but I think that you can go to court against Google arguing interstate commerce clause. Their tilt to the left--as their selection of blogs used as news source reveals-- does interfere with interstate commerce, and that is the violation of the law. I might be wrong but interstate commerce is used to argue numerous different (not even related to "commerce") matters (like gun shops near schools)...

232 NY Nana  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 10:08:27pm

#220 Zombie

I hope that you don't mind me saying G-d bless you to you! You wrote something no one in the MSM could or would, and it is perfect.

Thank you!

#221 Sarah D.

So was I! Would you believe that I, uh, owe him an email? You nnow just how fast I am notI! was so intent on watching the the vote that I shot off a short one...

Re Kiddo? I hate to say it, but if the FL schools are anything like the courts and the child welfare system..and in allowing a known pedophile to live near a precious little 9 year old who died so terribly, you may very well have to send her to a private school. Sad.

G'nite, and every kid should have a Mum like you!

I only pray that when I wake up I will hear that the tube has been reinserted. I am very concerned that after 2 prior removals, she may go into organ failure soon. Her heart can only withstand so much. If only her parents can get custody.

233 Lady of Shalott (ylreveb)  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 10:10:52pm

OT

On this day in 1556 Thomas Cranmer, the Reformation-minded Archbishop of Canterbury, was burned at the stake. As Henry VIII had executed Sir Thomas More for being too Catholic, so his daughter, Queen "Bloody" Mary I, executed Cranmer for being too Protestant -- over 300 such being put to death in her five-year reign. Cranmer's promotion of the English Bible and his authorship of The Book of Common Prayer are his most significant connections to Christian literature, but for fiction readers he is known through his connection to Ray Bradbury's book-burning novel, Fahrenheit 451.

Hugh Latimer (Bishop of Worcester), Nicholas Ridley (Bishop of Rochester) and Cranmer were the "Oxford Martyrs." All three had been arrested by Mary, and imprisoned together at Oxford. Latimer and Ridley had so enthusiastically rejected the idea of recanting their Protestant beliefs that they were burned in October, 1555.

As the bigger plum, Cranmer's recantation was more prized, and he was softened up over the next six months -- a process which included being forced to watch the burning of his friends, and which resulted in a handful of recantations and retracted recantations.

The last retraction, just moments before going to his death, came with a vow: "I have sinned, in that I signed with my hand what I did not believe with my heart. When the flames are lit, this hand shall be the first to burn." Those who watched reported that he made good on the promise, one adding, "His friends sorrowed for love; his enemies for pity; strangers for a common kind of humanity, whereby we are bound one to another."

But the more famous burning was the earlier one of Latimer and Ridley, made so by Latimer's last words as the two were given the mercy of a bag of gunpowder around their necks, and the fire was lit:

"Be of good comfort, Master Ridley, and play the man. We shall this day light such a candle, by God's grace, in England, as I trust shall never be put out."

--from Today in Literature.com

234 rightasrain  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 10:20:45pm

Drudge Report has a recording of Terri responding to her father after the tube was removed.

She really sounds like she's trying to speak. She stops making sounds while he asks questions, then she makes sounds again.

She's aware something bad is going on (the tube removal.)

She's not unconscious in the least.

235 goldsmith  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 10:26:01pm

Can we please, please, please stop talking about the Schiavo case? Pretty please? There are tons of blogs devoted to that. This one is devoted to other, more important matters and it's been seriously compromised by these constant off-topic arguments over the last few days. The ugliness and emotionalism that this case has generated around here (and elsewhere) is seriously disturbing. I wish we could just stay on topic and keep these things on other, more appropriate fora.

Thank you. Opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect the views of this network or its affiliates. We now return to "I've Got A Secret" brought to you by Winston Cigarettes.

236 manker  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 11:03:04pm

OT:

"Cease-fire" watch

Kassam fired at Sderot area (no injuries)

And yet for another hypocritical statement from the PA.

Palestinians have warned that Israeli plans to build two new neighborhoods linking the West Bank

settlement of Maaleh Adumim to East Jerusalem could put peace efforts at risk.(Reuters)

Right so I guess building a few houses is the equivalent of mortaring, multiple attempted stabbings, shooting attacks everyday, and ever increasing fire bomb attacks. And o'yes lets not forget the suicide bombing, but I guess since Abbas blames that on Israel too, I supose it doesn't count.

237 rightasrain  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 11:05:20pm

#236 manker

The PA is saying that this will interfere with "talks" they might have had with Israel.

Good!

Israel should try to avoid talking to these guys whenever possible.

Ma'aleh Adumim is awesome!

238 manker  Sun, Mar 20, 2005 11:59:14pm

#237 rightasrain

Hey you got a point of not talking. But the thing is that if the pali's say "this endangers" the road trap, it creates even more pressure on Israel to go back to talks and halt whatever is pissing off the bali's.

But this can still be a good thing, it allows for more Jewish investment in Jerusalem or as the bali's like to call it "Judaizing". Hopefully before (or if any) "final status" negoetiations occur, Israel will have most of the land rights in Jerusalem.

239 Globular Cluster  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 12:27:30am

#235 goldsmith

Agreed. I have very strong opinions about the Schiavo case as well and don't air them here. This is not the place.

240 pookleblinky  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 12:40:47am

I'm trying to find a list of the 58 people who voted against the law on Findlaw and Thomas, but no luck so far.

241 bigel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 12:51:42am
242 pookleblinky  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 12:53:51am

#241 Bigel

The Lithuanians were worse, IMO.

243 bigel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 12:55:18am
244 bigel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 12:56:53am
245 Jheka  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 12:57:48am

Damned Russkies ... right bigel?


As an aside, most of the pro-Israel, pro-American counter-protestor in San Francisco on Saturday were Russian. The great majority, actually.

246 bigel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 1:00:03am
247 Dave Ray  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 1:00:37am

Bigel:

Why should this linking to Nazi sites surprise anyone? One of Google's founders is Russian.

And we all know what Russians think of Jews..they make the Brits look tolerant.

...another was a Welshman...an we know all about their history of persecuting Jews don't we? Filthy degenerate Jew killers one and all...

Even when an American firm is found out you still have to look East don't you?

Anyway, still bitterly disappointed about the South Dakota Wankers didn't make the next round of the Mickey Mouse playoff league!

248 Mike C.  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 1:02:06am

OK, completely OT, as is my wont this time of day, did everybody note that John DeLorean died ? Age 80. OK, it was actually a pretty unspectacular car (Mercedes was the only company to really get gull wing doors right, in the 300 coupes), aside from one neat series of movie appearances and the fact that, so far as I know, it was the only volume production auto ever produced in unpainted metal, the exterior being brushed stainless steel.

249 bigel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 1:03:50am
250 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 1:05:15am

It looks like the Un is going to follow in Goober's footsteps but instead the Un is attempting to set even higher standards for Exhibit H - Hypocrisy - and Exhibit S - Stupidity - that only Eurabian leaders would hope to rival.

Yes dear friends, today we're going to be graced with the presentation, by our feckless Un-leader, Kofi Annan, with a 191 page report which, of course, only Un(and no doubt EU) leaders would dare call a 'bold and achievable' deal for realigning the United Nations so that it can better tackle the world's major scourges.'

Step right up to the podium, write a check for 0.7 percent of your countries yearly gross domestic product and you’ll receive a one supply of 'Kofi's Famous Anal Jelly.'

...or you could get rid of the 'World Greatest Scourge' - the Un - and stop all U.N. funding... For Free.

251 Dave Ray  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 1:07:45am

Bigel:

My money's on Manchester United

252 bigel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 1:20:20am
253 Outsider  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 1:20:58am

#30 - Cloud Master

Thanks! great search engine!

Try it everyone!

254 FabioC.  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 1:21:24am

#248 Mike C.

Ah, that De Lorean? I always thought it was a quite cool car, even without the time-travel capabilities :D.
Any link with the specs?

255 hm  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 1:26:37am

#248 Mike C.

Good morning (or is it still evening for you?),

The DeLorean is a great car -- to look at.

As for handling and acceleration, your Geo beats it hands down.

256 hm  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 1:31:28am

#254 FabioC.

Try this

However, don't be fooled, I can personally attest to the fact that that "Light Alloy V6" pulls about as well as my lawn mower.

257 Dave Ray  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 1:38:24am

Bigel:

What's the NCAA? I was on about the FA Cup...the oldest, greatest and most exciting sporting event ever...

258 Psyduck  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 1:39:22am

I guess in the end everything is a racist agenda. However, I still need to use google. Sorry.

259 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 1:47:03am

I think OSU Cowboys win it all to restore the honor of the Big XII

260 bigel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 1:48:07am
261 FabioC.  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 1:49:17am

hm & Mike

Now this is a car with some real performance...

262 Dave Ray  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 1:50:16am

Bigel...

Oldest football tournament.

PS Horse racing isn't a sport...it's a way to empty your wallet.

263 bigel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 1:54:15am
264 Dave Ray  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 1:58:22am

Bigel:

It seems a great way of emptying a wallet when it's my wallet were talking about

265 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 1:59:52am

FIRST OF THE SPRING TORNADO OUTBREAK HITS ARKANSAS, LOUISIANA, NORTHEAST TEXAS & SOUTHEAST OKLAHOMA TODAY, AND MOVES INTO TENNESEE VALLEY TOMORROW


SPC SWODY1. WILL BE UPDATED AT 1300Z (ABOUT 1 HOUR)

Not a whole lot has changed since last evening's update.

Fort Worth AN/WSR 88D NexRad Doppler Radar loop shows strong to severe thunderstorms already in North Central Texas.

Area is being spared the really bad severe weather because it is the coolest and most stable time of the day.

266 bigel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 2:13:25am
267 bigel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 2:14:47am
268 Mike C.  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 2:16:52am

# 254 FabioC.

Rear engined ( the CG of the engine was behind the rear axle, so it was not mid-engined) with a Renault 6 as a powerplant. The gull-winged doors were problematical, prone to leaks (as were the roughly contemporaneous Briklins) and always a pain in the ass in a tight parking lot or garage. Mediocre acceleration and top end, and mediocre handling. MOstly a marketing ploy by somebody who thought WAY too much of himself. But I gotta admit, the SS exterior was a pretty neat idea. Sorry, no link to the specs here, but I rather imagine they're out there if you want them. It certainly should be in the 'Road and Track' database.

# 255 hm

Just past dinner and 8 PM here at the moment, and actually, the Mighty Geo handles pretty good for a Coors Light can on wheels, with a hamster cage for a powerplant. Beats the bloody hell out of those VWs I used to drive, or even the MGs or Triumphs that I was able to borrow once upon a time.

# 256 hm

Hard to beat a huge displacement V-8 when it comes to putting out torque out the wazzoo. TANSTAAFL.

269 V the K  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 2:28:32am

How Low Can The Left Go?

This one surpasses pretty much anything I've yet seen. Regardless of how you feel about the issue in question.

270 True German Ally  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 2:30:22am

Don't boycott Google, hit them where it hurts them.

Whenever you see a Google ad by an important company, fire off an email to them telling them that you really appreciate their products but won't buy from companies that advertise with a search engine promoting Nazi papers.

If 1000 LGFers fire off 10 emails a day, it will HURT Google.

271 Mike C.  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 2:35:04am

# 257 Dave Ray

...the oldest, greatest and most exciting sporting event ever...

Yeah. Right up there with watching paint dry Yawn.

# 261 FabioC.

Subarus rule ! The wife and older daughter drive Outback wagon and sedan respectively, and even with the old 4-banger, they are respectable luxury all-weather vehicles. The lighter, faster WRX models are even better. I can't find a link quickly, but try and find a link to the concept vehicle Jeep is toting around to the shows this season. Dual engines developing the same bhp as a freight train or medium-sized, ocean-going freighter, and able to do a full 360 degree turn in it's own length. Woof !

And what's with the horse racing ? Yeah, one horse can run faster than another. And so ? To Dave Ray, it won't empty your wallet IF YOU DON'T BET ON IT ! Why not just shoot craps ? Best odds in the casino (US, that is). My entire casino career consists of a 30-minute stop at one of the riverboat casinos just over the TX border in Louisianna. I was there for 30 minutes, I wagered $ 20, bet it (betting the line on craps) on advice from my buddy (I had no idea what he was talking about) I wound up $ 40 ahead and they gave me two free beers. So much for my casino career - walk away a winner, I say.

272 Ed from Ohio  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 2:39:11am

that site is for demented people

273 Ed from Ohio  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 2:40:16am

V the K

i just looked at that site also. They have absolutely no class at all. I suggest posting that here. someone get Charles. I sense a group of useful idiots.

274 Mike C.  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 2:41:11am

# 272 Ed from Ohio

Hell, THIS site is for demented people ! Heh.

275 manker  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 2:46:50am
276 Mike C.  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 2:51:49am

Sigh. Just returned from my daily foray into hell, the obligatory examination of DU and Daily Kos front pages. Absolutlet nothing new on DU (they must get weekends off), but do check out the second front page post on Daily Kos (or should I say Daily Armando ?). Charming poster image.

277 lowandslow  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 2:53:18am

#269 V the K

About as bad taste as you can get. Why did you have to show me that.

278 SwampWoman  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 2:53:23am

Uggghhh. After coughing all night instead of sleeping, I get to go to work today. I do not care about the dress code; I am wearing blue jeans and a flannel shirt. Today the burqa sounds like the ideal outfit except it would allow my bloodshot swollen eyes to be viewed. Maybe I can just wrap a towel around my face and announce that I'm going to wear this in support of my oppressed Muslim sisters. Folks would probably just say "Aw, shit. We do NOT have TIME for this today. Check her for firearms, and bring her on back" while rolling their eyes so far back I'd be worried about epileptic seizures (yeah, should have let the crazy bitch go when she resigned, but nooo.)

I think I'll take my bunny slippers and a teddy bear, too. And a pillow. And a couple of blankies. I can set up a tent under a desk...

Seriously, I have to do something about this cough. The guaifenesin/dextromethorphan mixture is NOT helping. Plan B involves Jack Daniels, honey, and lemon juice, but I'll probably hold the honey and lemon juice because that sounds like effort.

279 Mike C.  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 2:59:45am

Oh Cool ! CNN Int. is talking about the latest, greatest oil discovery off of N. Cuba. Everybody is at least insinuating (in some cases, outright stating) that maor American oil companies are dying to get in on the game. The size of the new find ? 100 million barrels. In place or recoverable reserves, I don't know, but at the best, well below the minimum definition of a giant oil field (500 million barrels recoverable), much less a super-giant (one billion barrels recoverable). OK. I'll just bet Exxon/Mobil can't wait to get in on that action. Not. They're chasing billions of barrels, folks, not this sort of thing. Idiots.

280 Innismir  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 3:05:12am
If you support Terri being killed, just imagine yourself one day, 40 years from now, in a wheelchair unable to move or speak, but still with the desire to live, sitting in a courtroom listening to some doctor-for-hire saying that, because of your condition, you don't have a soul and should be unplugged. Do you really want us as a society to go down that road?

I'd really hope that by then the US would have some kind of Euthanasia law, and after 15 years of not being able to communicate, having my poo sucked out of me, and being fed through a tube, I would be trying to hook myself to the damn IV that would kill me.

To be honest, is it fair to keep her alive? Having to be fed liquid 3 times a day, unable to swallow (which, despite everyone saying otherwise, she /has/ had therapy for, another lie of the 'omg! shes concious!'-crowd), and had her waste sucked out of her every day. For all we know, the 'grunts and growns' that you anthromorph into 'she wants to stay alive' can also be anthromorphed by me as her telling her parents that it's ok and she wants to die.

*sigh* Honestly, if she 'testifies' before congress, its just going to turn the tide more against her parents. Then the deck of cards is going to come tumbling down.

281 Innismir  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 3:08:02am

Oh yes, that was for:
#220 zombie

Plus, if the judge was 'horribly biased', why didn't the 2 or 3 appeals get his judgement overturned?

(Oh wait, my bad, they must be part of that 'conspiracy')

282 Mike C.  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 3:09:25am

# 278 Swamp Woman

Oh dear. Working while you're sick is a definite bummer. Been there, done that. But hey, as long as you're sick as a dog, and feel like crap, might as well do it at the office and get paid for it. At least that's what I always tell myself. Vast amounts of the hottest tea you can stand in the office, and some particularly smooth whiskey of some sort once you get home, that's my rec. Don't know if the whiskey actually helps, but it sure doesn't seem to hurt.

283 Mike C.  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 3:15:53am

# 280 Innisimir

There was an excellent plea/suggestion back up the thread that people stop discussing this issue. There are some very bitterly held opinions on oppossing sides here, with no hope for reconcilliation, and they only tend to generate flame wars. There are apparently numerous sites, with comment sections, devoted to this issue and this issue alone. Those might be a better venue. Just my opinion, so feel free to ignore it completely. I might be annoyed, but I won't be angry.

284 SwampWoman  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 3:20:29am

#280 Innismir

To be honest, is it fair to keep her alive? Having to be fed liquid 3 times a day, unable to swallow (which, despite everyone saying otherwise, she /has/ had therapy for, another lie of the 'omg! shes concious!'-crowd), and had her waste sucked out of her every day. For all we know, the 'grunts and growns' that you anthromorph into 'she wants to stay alive' can also be anthromorphed by me as her telling her parents that it's ok and she wants to die.

Your "feelings" on how she would want to be treated do not matter. The only thing that should matter is whether she had Advanced Directives in place. She did not. Therefore, the state should err on the side of life. Your "feelings" as to whether or not she communicates do not matter unless you are a neurologist who has done a complete neurologic workup to include brain scans and can provide proof of your assertions in which case I would still want to get additional opinions before making the decision and absent the written instructions, were I the person deciding I would still err on the side of life. Depending on the "memory" of a spouse as to the oral indications of the party in question when he has another family and clear financial benefit if the lady dies seems to be rather foolish.

If you feel strongly, fill out a living will. You may wish to be cautious if you have family that would receive greater financial benefit the more quickly you die. However, you should never presume to judge based on your "feelings" what other people would want.

285 FabioC.  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 3:24:47am

Geez, more Terry Schiavo? - BTW, Schiavo means Slave (masculine) in Italian.

286 selpaw  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 3:30:02am

284 SwampWoman

Good morning. Obviously the ruling of some 40 judges means nothing? What do we have them for? Government has no right to interfere in this issue. The supreme court did not even want to touch it!

What I find so heartbreaking is a little girl in Florida was abducted and murdered by vicious sex offender simply because no politician finds this worthy enough to protect children by changing laws. For this they don't feel five minutes of grandstanding is worthy. When our congressman stay overtime to debate this real life and death issue then I will know something within our society is really working.

287 dgbellak  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 3:31:59am

Charles,
Google News filters news. I'm really surprised that needs explaining. LGF is an opinion site, and until you hire some journalists or at the very least Drudge up the proceedings a bit, you will not be considered a news source. National Vangaurd, for all of the steaming, lying bile coming off of their site, is still an actual news source, with a staff supplying original accounts and stories. Last time I checked, hunching over in front of a monitor talking out of your ass wasn't considered news.

288 Lyana  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 3:32:48am

Innismar, you appear to have your mind already made up, but here's the text of the full report by Dr. William Hammesfahr.

He is a world renowned neurologist - what do you think of his observations?

289 V the K  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 3:33:52am

#277 - lowandslow

About as bad taste as you can get. Why did you have to show me that.

I'm sorry, but it goes to the question of, "Is the left even human anymore?"

290 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 3:35:48am

OT

Ledbetter wind profiler showing 20 m/s winds near surface from south-southwest, with winds at 6 km (~500 mb) at 30 m/s from the west. Convert m/s to mph by multiplying by 2.23 (Ie 30 m/s = 67 mph). The main upper energy isn't even here yet!

Austin area (Granger) radar loop shows some severe storms already despite coolest time of day.

291 Lyana  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 3:35:54am

#240 pookleblinkie

Here a link to the roll call for the vote...

292 Thom  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 3:39:47am

#287 dgbellak

You missed Rathergate? You missed all the on-site reporting of various protests? Etc?

But it was a really great idea to use your first post to establish yourself as a clueless asshole.

293 BabbaZee  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 3:39:51am

Sod off, swampus

294 BabbaZee  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 3:40:20am

That would be Swampus 287

295 Golden Jerusalem  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 3:40:35am

Good afternoon,

Mike C., how ya doin'?

---

I'll risk the consequences and weigh in with my personal opinion on the "right-to-life" issue.

The closest family should have the right to decide. It's essentially a private family matter and nobody else's business.

If the closest family is defined under the law as the person's legal guardian, which in this case is the husband, then so be it.

---

Just my $ 0.02.

296 Thom  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 3:43:32am

#285 FabioC.

It never ends. With all the web sites devoted to that issue people still insist on coming here to stir up shit.

297 bigel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 3:44:03am
298 V the K  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 3:47:43am

$297 --- bigel, Lileks linked to it, and only warned that it was a "horrid mockery." He should have said, "stupefying evidence that the left has lost any claim to humanity."

Anyway, I should have captions up in the next 10-15 on the Moron Parades from this weekend.

299 Golden Jerusalem  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 3:49:23am

BabbaZee :>),

How ya doin'?

300 BabbaZee  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 3:50:08am

#269 V the K

I know funny (and You know funny) and that is not fuckin' funny.
No sense of humor at all or a bad sense of humor appears to be some sort of leftist disease...
Chronic Dearthicus Humorus?

301 BabbaZee  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 3:50:58am

#299 Golden Jerusalem

Boker Tov, GJ
Been better. Been worse, too!
;-)

302 bigel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 3:53:02am
303 Lyana  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 3:54:05am

#296 Thom - Sorry - don't mean to stir up trouble... It's probably not a bad idea to link to and invite a poster you wish to engage on the issue to an alternate location for the discussion.

Charles has been very generous, and it is his "house."

304 justdanny  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 3:54:18am

Google News: Where neo *** go to impress their friends and win converts.

Yep. Elgoog is nothing but stinky low brow side show whore.

305 selpaw  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 3:56:20am

296 Thom
I agree with you in some part. You are one of my favorite posters after all. However, I don't see any rules saying this should not be taken upon review on LGF. I have seen many threads go way off the chart on subjects completely different from the theme of the thread.

Our goverment is stepping way out of line on this and that is where the debate should be. But I will repeat part of #286 because my comment is well worth at least one passing thought if indeed we truly value life.

What I find so heartbreaking is a little girl in Florida was abducted and murdered by vicious sex offender simply because no politician finds this worthy enough to protect children by changing laws. For this they don't feel five minutes of grandstanding is worthy. When our congressman stay overtime to debate this real life and death issue then I will know something within our society is really working.
306 Golden Jerusalem  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 3:57:16am

#301 BabbaZee:

Yeah, know what you mean.

Bit jumpy over here. Quitting smoking and I'm on my fifth day, but I do have this here nicotine inhaler-thingie...

Gotta say it's a great aid for quitting. The question is if I can do without the inhaler then?

307 Dirk Diggler  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 3:59:50am
Your "feelings" on how she would want to be treated do not matter. The only thing that should matter is whether she had Advanced Directives in place. She did not. Therefore, the state should err on the side of life. Your "feelings" as to whether or not she communicates do not matter unless you are a neurologist who has done a complete neurologic workup to include brain scans and can provide proof of your assertions in which case I would still want to get additional opinions before making the decision and absent the written instructions, were I the person deciding I would still err on the side of life. Depending on the "memory" of a spouse as to the oral indications of the party in question when he has another family and clear financial benefit if the lady dies seems to be rather foolish.

Not to mention the fact that one of the doctors who performed an evaluation on Terry Schindler, a Dr. Ronald Cranford, publicly embraces the moniker "Dr. Death" and is an outspoken right-to-kill advocate. He has given "expert" testimony in a number of these cases. This guy is so radical he even opposes spoon feeding people with brain injuries.

Betcha you didn't read or see that fact in any of the MSM coverage of this case?

There is something very, very fishy about all of this. Michael Schiavo sure is hell bent on killing his wife.

308 SwampWoman  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:00:11am

#294 BabbaZee

That would be Swampus 287

That does it! Next registration, I'm gonna change to Flirtin'WithDisaster.

309 BabbaZee  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:01:02am

Charles has been very generous, and it is his "house."

Exactly. If he had wanted to hear us talk about it there'd be a thread. There's abundant coverage for this story and ubiquitous places to go to discuss it.
I have read LGF for years precisely because it covers the things that are under reported.
Thisissue doesnt need LGF. We are specialists ;-)

310 V the K  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:01:13am
What do you expect from a group of vile, savage, sub-human animal scum

Prescription drugs at low, low prices and invitations to watch lonely MILF's on their webcams?

Anyway, anti-war hippie captions are up

311 BabbaZee  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:02:08am

#306 Golden Jerusalem
I've quit that way
(lights a Winston light)
Don't work
;-)

312 BabbaZee  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:02:48am

#308 SwampWoman
;-)

313 SwampWoman  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:04:58am

#288 Lyana

Link shows the Big Green Lizard of Link Death.

314 BabbaZee  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:06:15am

#310 V the K
Rayra's pics aren't loading for me - all the rest of the pictures on the site load...

315 Golden Jerusalem  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:07:01am

#311:

LOL, heh, nice cynicism.

Yeah, i've tried this before, but this time I'm determined to make it work :>)))

/Chewing on inhaler-thingie

316 Iron Fist[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:07:34am
317 BabbaZee  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:09:46am

#315 Golden Jerusalem
If you want it, you can accomplish it. I have faith in you!
My problem is I really didnt want to quit.

318 V the K  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:12:31am

#314 --- You're right. They loaded for me the first time, but aren't loading now. Rayra's bandwidth must have been exceeded or something. Anyone in a position to set up another place to host those pics so I could re-link? (I'm not at the moment).

319 Thom  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:13:34am

#305 selpaw

I'm thinking of Friday's open thread. The bloodletting was fearsome. That topic is almost unique in that respect, otherwise I wouldn't care.

But, it's just MHO of course.

320 Thom  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:14:50am
321 LSD  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:15:16am

(Sigh)

322 Dirk Diggler  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:20:17am

V the K,

1. "I'm as classy as I am beautiful."

ROTFLMAO!

323 FabioC.  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:20:19am

For those who are interested, the second and more juicy part of Operation Spring Force is up - and without bandwidth problems this time.

324 V the K  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:23:22am

#320 Thom --- Thanks. Everybody else, . try 'em now

325 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:23:47am

I heard some Demonrat congressman refer to keeping the govt. out of the bedroom.


Which opened my eyes to why the LLL cares so much about starving Terry Schindler Shiavo to death.

If people have an issue with killing a 40 something year old brain damaged woman to death because she still seems to have some awareness of her surroundings, then they might really care about sucking the brains out of babies at 9 months gestational age, especially if they have no apparent mental defect.


Anything that could even remotely threaten abortion rights has to be fought to the bitter end.

326 Lyana  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:24:45am

#313 swamp Woman

Lovely. I tested it in preview this time - should work...

Linky

327 selpaw  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:26:16am

319 Thom
I missed that thread...BTW: YHO is good enough for me.

328 V the K  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:26:28am

Also, if you're a sick freak like I am, this story has one of the worst imaginable sub-headlines.

329 BabbaZee  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:28:12am

#328 V the K
now that IS funny...

330 triticale  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:28:20am

My understanding was that DeLorean was the business manager at Pontiac behind the decision to introduce the G.T.O. before striking out on his own. His car was engineered to run the Wankel rotery GM was planning to produce. When GM pulled the plug on that project (because, opposite to hybrids, rotaries look worse on the EPA tests than in real life) he was already committed to the project and went witth the only drivetrain he could get. The car would have been far better with a lighter more powerful engine.

331 BabbaZee  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:29:47am

wtf?

332 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:29:48am

Hey Bigel-


You still have time to run over to EWR, catch a non-stop to IAH and rent a car. I'll suddenly get a "headache", and we can take the rental up towards Nacogdoches or San Augustine where the tornado action this afternoon should be pretty hot.


Mayybe AG the Angry Texan can come along and bring a video camera.


Maybe we'll even attract an experienced storm chaser. I've never chased, and supposedly amateur chasers are dangerous, but if you have to die anyway, dying inside an F-5 tornado would have a certain elan.

333 littleoldlady  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:30:53am

327 selpaw

I missed that thread

Be happy you did. There was stuff said in there I'm still reeling from.

334 Golden Jerusalem  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:34:05am

#323 Fabio C.:

I don't see the images under the header of Operation Spring Force, mate.

Rather disappointing as I am well aware of the incredible variety and diversity of moonbat organisms in the U.K.

BTW, any word on how many LLL-freakazoids turned out on March 19 in london?

The BBC just said "vast numbers", large crowds gathered", and so on, which I thought would indicate the not too many -- or less than expected -- turned out.

I mean, if it'd been like half a mill, you know the Beeb would make sure to include that detail in their report.

335 Dirk Diggler  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:38:50am

#319 Thom

I'm thinking of Friday's open thread. The bloodletting was fearsome.

#327 Selpaw

I missed that thread

You remember that opening battle in the movie Gladiator? When, towards the end of the battle, the legionaires were walking around driving their swords into the chests of the barbarian wounded?

Well, Friday's open thread wasn't quite as civil.

336 traveler  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:44:23am

#324 V the K

Hilarious!

337 Peacekeeper  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:44:34am

Friday was Hell on wheels by gum! It actually started fun and pleasantly enough, but as the debate got Schiavo centered the long knives came out. I know, I made some comments but I bailed out around 950 or so. Animosity doesn't begin to describe it... I haven't read the rest and I don't intend too. I'm told it got much, much worse. SIGH

338 traveler  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:48:39am

#337 Peacekeeper

I haven't read the rest and I don't intend too. I'm told it got much, much worse. SIGH

I bailed, too. It was obvious the master was away. There was no point in joining the fray -- flames were out of control.

339 Golden Jerusalem  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:48:59am

#328:

HAH-HAR!

LMAO!

340 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:49:13am

For some reason, Ms. 7W is making me think of Land o'Lakes butter this morning.

341 American Infidel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:49:37am
342 BabbaZee  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:50:05am

mornin' keeper o-peace

343 traveler  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:51:32am

#341 American Infidel

Morning! You're later than your usual postings...

344 Peacekeeper  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:52:01am

Babba, Infidel
GOOOD MORNING!

Now, sadly work intrudes. With the thaw I must leave the office occaisionally. I hope you will all be here when I get back.

345 Poitiers-Lepanto  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:52:33am

##25 Ed

That is exactly the point.

If we start doing something so politically uncorrect as ...(gasp !) ... respecting life...where will we end !?!?!?

It could come down to a complete catastrophe, some fanatic could start saying that there are Truth and lies, Right and wrong...BRRR...Good and evil...

/dehydrater left (D)


YES YES, we must not speak about that, sure.

346 BabbaZee  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:52:35am

mornin' AI

347 American Infidel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:52:59am
348 Peacekeeper  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:53:11am

PS

Traveler I get the feeling we'll be talkin about THAT thread for years to come.

349 traveler  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:53:26am

#344 Peacekeeper

Now, sadly work intrudes.

Damn those oppressive paying jobs!

350 American Infidel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:55:03am
351 traveler  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:55:04am

#348 Peacekeeper

I'm picturing us all in our rocking chairs, talking about the "great flame out of '05..."

352 Poitiers-Lepanto  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:55:29am

Seen on Israpundit
about the pro Saddam demonstration of the weekend:

the neoComms

353 BabbaZee  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:55:37am

#345 Poitiers-Lepanto
It is very simple for me - she is alive according to the laws of the G-d of Abraham. Any other opinion on the subject is moot for me ;-)
It appears it has become one of those topics along with The Passion and abortion is not appropriate for this particular forum, and there is no thread here for it - so I am and have been staying out of it here.
Morning, darlin'!

354 American Infidel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:55:40am
355 BabbaZee  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:57:01am

AI
I have lived another day to tell the tale...that makes it all OK ;-)

356 American Infidel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:58:02am
357 traveler  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 4:58:31am

#350 American Infidel

I stayed up till 2am, and I just woke up...lol...

I'm a night owl, so staying up until 2:00 is fun for me. But, being the mom of 2 young-uns, I don't do it.

That's one of the things I have at the ready when I get depressed over having an empty nest someday: I can stay up until 2am. If hubby says anything about it, I'll just say "Sod off, Swampy!"...

358 Carolynp  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:00:23am

dgbellak: I've seen some of the fastest news coverage here. This'll do for me. Go elsewhere if you don't like it, you big stinker.


V the K: (and all the others who posted pics of this weekends shananagans) Thanks! The coverage was good, and funny. If I go to any of these things, I'll bring scissors and cut the "V" shaped cords and use some silly sounding excuse about freeing the masses. You think I could get arrested for that?

359 Mike C.  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:00:48am

# 295 GJ

Doing pretty good, momentarily anyway. Usually the work is "Two steps forward, one step back", but for the last week it's been "One step forward, two steps back." But I think (delusions !) I'm past that now. I actually started doing new stuff today, finally. Only time will tell if that will last.

# 311 BabbaZee

Heh.

# 330 triticale

Right you are. So the quetion remains how did he come to the point of putting his own name on such a mediocre vehicle ? Hubris is my guess.

360 selpaw  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:03:53am

333 littleoldlady & 335 Dirk Diggler


Glad I missed that thread.


Seeing I was not in the midst of the firestorm/gladiator brawl, go straight for the jugular, etc., I guess I can have a few last words on the subject; -))

The Terri Schiavo case went before 40 judges over the years. The Supreme Court turned it down. What does that tell you. Enough is enough. The whole thing is sad and unfortunate but that is not the point.

We want to keep people alive so where is the passion or fire on laws that do not protect the lives of children from evil sexual predators? And there are tens of thousands of them who have been given one chance after another. They are on almost every street in every city. ---> But then that is not a 'political issue' so I guess it does not matter. What that tells me is pathetic.

We want small government except with what 'we want.'

361 American Infidel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:03:59am
362 American Infidel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:05:01am
363 V the K  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:05:43am

The really good news is, I got material for tomorrow, too.

364 BabbaZee  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:06:38am

#362 American Infidel
For me it is! ;-)

365 American Infidel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:08:03am
366 V the K  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:09:17am
We want to keep people alive so where is the passion or fire on laws that do not protect the lives of children from evil sexual predators?

Dude, the one doesn't preclude the other. This sounds a lot like the, "we can't take down Saddam because there are lots of other dictators in the world" argument. And, I'd bet, the same people who want TS's life preserved are the same people who would go to the mat to nail predators, too.

If being called a "hypocrite" is the price of preserving life, I'm okay with that.

367 Poitiers-Lepanto  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:09:20am

#353 BabbaZee

Good morning !

As usual, I am way less tolerant and good-hearted than you (and the majority of Lizards) and I have a real great problem with anyone who wants to kill a person by dehydration, that is the WORST way to die, immediately after being burned at the stake.

I know, we must look for what unites the Lizardoid Army, but I am not sure that a person who is open to kill another person by dehydration could in any way be my friend or ally.

368 mika.  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:09:35am

Can anyone recommend me a good search engine to search blogs?

369 American Infidel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:09:38am
370 American Infidel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:11:45am
371 BabbaZee  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:11:46am

#367 Poitiers-Lepanto
but I am not sure that a person who is open to kill another person by dehydration could in any way be my friend or ally.

I am sure. They cannot be a friend or ally. send me a list so I know who to avoid - dont make me read that whole thread LOL!

372 Nahanni  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:12:51am

When doing a websearch I do not want to wade through a big box of shite to find the pony, and that is what doing a Google search is like. I have used Dogpile for over 5 years. I always find what I am looking for with it with a minimum of hassles.

Honestly, I have never understood why so many people think Google is a such a good search engine.

373 Mike C.  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:14:18am

Well, the more I read on this thread, the more tempted I am to offer my opinions on this Terri Schiavo issue. And that, fellow lizardoids, is a clear sign from above that it is time for me to shut the hell up and log the hell off. so I'm going to hit the sack. Color me gone.

374 American Infidel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:14:36am
375 V the K  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:14:57am
'PLAYGIRL' EDITOR FIRED AFTER OUTING SELF AS REPUBLICAN... DEVELOPING...

Q. What do you call a pirate who poses for Playgirl?

A. A Play-Matey...


(This week, I'm into pirate jokes.)

376 BabbaZee  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:15:43am

there used to be many christians in Israel. Not so anymore.

377 Poitiers-Lepanto  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:17:05am

#371 BabbaZee

The problem is that many Lizards think "what would I want if I were Terri ?" and they think "I'd like to die"
WITHOUT THINKING THAT TO DIE IN THAT WAY (i.e. by dehydration) IS A TORTURE WITHOUT COMPARISON.

And this is fact checking, not ideological debate.

378 Ayatollah Ghilmeini  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:20:53am

OT- From Haaretz headlines--Palestinian security official: PA has sent letter to hundreds of militants outlining restrictions on use of weapons.

One can just imagine:

Dear Brother Militant,

After careful consideration and in consultation with the appropriate Islamic authorities, the PA has determined the following rules and regulations for the use of automatic firearms, explosive devices and rockets of all kinds:

1. All martyrdom operations must be cleared through your unelected representative to the popular resistance committees.

2. All public displays calling for violence against Jews and the US may use automatic weapons fire into the air provided there are western media present.

3. All other public displays of weapons are to be curtailed, please keep your weapons and use them freely at night.

4. Permits to execute suspected collaborators may be acquired at any time up to forty five days after the execution.

These reasonable restrictions will ensure that everyone has a fun and successful hudna.

Sincerely,

etc.

379 BabbaZee  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:21:04am

#377 Poitiers-Lepanto
I have been closer to death than most (which you know some of). I am an a better position to consider "what would I want in her place" than most as a result of those experiences.
When people say shit like that it rankles me. You been there? didn't think so. STFU.
;-)

380 richard mcenroe  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:22:23am
381 American Infidel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:22:34am
382 American Infidel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:23:47am
383 Poitiers-Lepanto  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:24:00am

#360 Selpaw

We want small government except with what 'we want.'

You say it sarcastically, but it is correct: I do want BIG Government for the Defense of the Nation, for example.

I want BIG Government to defend Life, Property and the Pursuit of Happiness.
And to protect the Constitution.

No single sentence has in itself ALL the truth (when we talk about history).
Big government is bad from a specific point of view, good fron another.
Being able to discuss like this and remain consequent is the core of being free from ideologies.

384 Poitiers-Lepanto  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:26:21am

#379 BabbaZee

Been there too. At 28. Because of a heart problem.
NO single thought of giving up.
Still here kicking.

:- )

385 BabbaZee  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:27:04am

#384 Poitiers-Lepanto
of that I was certain fellow bridge

386 Dirk Diggler  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:27:10am

RE: Jessica Lundsford's Murder...

Couey, 46, has not yet been charged with any crimes related to Jessica's disappearance; Dawsy has repeatedly said he wants prosecutors to seek the death penalty. Couey was booked early Sunday on a probation violation and failure to register his change of address as required as a sex offender.

Child sex predators need to have GPS tracking devices surgically implanted in them so they can be monitored at all times.

387 Zachary Cohen  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:28:08am

Check the latest story from the National Vanguard to appear on Google news, alleging that Karl Rove participated in gay orgies. Read it. It is absolutely insane and an obvious complete fabrication.

But it's good enough for Google News.

388 American Infidel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:28:52am
389 BabbaZee  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:29:01am

#386 Dirk Diggler
Child sex predators need to have GPS tracking devices surgically implanted in them so they can be monitored at all times.

no, child sex predators need to be taken out back and shot immediately after being proven guilty. I volunteer to be the shooter.

390 Bernadette  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:29:19am

Terry Schaivo is a gift to us. She and others like her - the sick, the infirm - give us the opportunity to serve them with love. Her parents love her and so do many others. Caring for her and others like her can be a humbling experience.

As a disabled person, a person who is biblically referred to as "the least of my people," she weilds a great amount of power - look at the national debate that has surrounded her. And she allows us to see the face of Christ in her. Whatever you do to the least of my people, you do to me.

No apologies, no if's, and's or but's - Terry Schaivo has the right to live. She is not brain dead - she is brain damaged and did not direct that her life be ended.


I've read some of the comments on some of the threads about this. I'm glad I'm not the daughter or wife of some of the posters.

391 WriterMom  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:29:48am

#374 A.I

I used to live in Jerusalem. I am not aware of any law that prevents anyone from selling any property to anyone they choose-no matter what religion. Lots of Jews moved into properties in the Arab quarter of Jerusalem, or in "Arab East" Jerusalem, not illegally at all-they purchased the properties from Arab sellers.

I do know that there is a settlement in the Galilee that wanted to prevent an Arab Israeli family from buying a house there and moving in-I think it was Katzir but I'm not sure.

OT: Hard not to hate Fwance.

392 BabbaZee  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:29:58am

Oh no! They've discovered operation karl's frock!

393 American Infidel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:32:06am
394 beblebrox  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:32:11am

#382 American Infidel

I'm watching this. Gee, I wonder why every time something explodes I immediatly think Muslim terrorists?

395 WriterMom  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:32:22am

#304 justdanny

ElGoog!

I LOVE IT!

396 WriterMom  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:32:57am

#327 selpaw

Check thy e-mail :)

397 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:32:57am

Karl Rove Gay Orgies Orgy Saudi Arabia Jeff Gannon Guckert Leather Whips Young Teens Asian Huge Breast Porn

(Just doing my part to help Google).

398 Poitiers-Lepanto  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:33:02am

#387 Zachary Cohen

Poor things, they don't know that Rove is trisexual...

399 BabbaZee  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:33:25am

#393 American Infidel
how 'bout a bullseye?

400 Spiritualized  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:33:37am
drawing Palestinian warnings that peace efforts were at risk.

F**k them! There aren't any "peace efforts" and certainly not any from the Arabs.

Israel is damned if she does and damned if she doesn't, so build more settlements I say.

401 beblebrox  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:33:46am

#382 American Infidel

Especially in Dearborn which is the center of what culture in America?

3 guesses, people, and the first two don't count.

402 WriterMom  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:34:43am

#397 Ed

LMAO!

403 beblebrox  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:35:48am

#397 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades

Dude, you're like a walking metasearch!

404 American Infidel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:37:39am
405 V the K  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:38:17am
Especially in Dearborn which is the center of what culture in America?

A friend of mine grew up in Dearborn. The gas station in his neighborhood was nickname "Khaddafi's Corner."

(I visit Dearborn semi-regularly. There are parts of Dearborn where there are more business signs in Arabic than English. There's also a Ginormous mosque right down the street from Ford World Headquarters.)

406 WriterMom  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:38:30am

#377 P.L

I actually believe that Charles does not want to have the Terri discussion here on LGF, or there would have been a thread about it. So, I'm not going to post all my humble opinions about that topic.

I will say that my son is fed by a feeding tube and it's not such a big deal. Lots of kids who have disabilities are when they are young-for medical reasons or swallowing problems, or because they are weak, and so do kids who are heart patients and can't eat enough on their own.

I will also say that if someone tried to take out my son's feeding tube I would rip their heart out with my bare hands and savour their demise.

And---good morning to all.

407 Cognosus  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:38:52am

They're going to starve Terri to death, depriving her of both food and water until her body -- finally -- shuts down after trying to digest itself.

If someone tried to put down a dog like that today, everyone would be SCREAMING. Are we seriously considering doing it to a human being?

408 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:40:57am

401 B'box

Best not to jump to conclusions. Explosions happen at industrial locations more often than they should.


Now, if two different locations affected, I'm thinking moozies.

409 American Infidel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:41:29am
410 Dave Ray  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:42:34am
411 quark2  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:43:14am

@262 Dave Ray

Hey ol chap!


Horse racing is a great equine sport. I know I've been in the middle of it since 1992. :)
Talk about a high and a rush! Nothing like seeing your horse come across the finish line first at blazing speed.

412 beblebrox  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:43:52am

#408 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades

I know, I know. I admit it's a kneejerk reaction with me. It just makes me wonder. First a report about possible targeting of "soft" tartgets. Then, within days, in the heart of Arabic America, something explodes. At this point is is less than even conjecture, more like wild eyed suspicion, but still, there is still that little voice in the back of my mind.

413 traveler  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:44:57am
#394 beblebrox 3/21/2005 07:32AM PST
#382 American Infidel

I'm watching this. Gee, I wonder why every time something explodes I immediatly think Muslim terrorists?

That was my knee-jerk reaction, too. Then I thought "Why a Ford plant"...then you factor in the location (Dearborn, home of the call to prayer)...then I remembered "Why NOT the Ford plant"...

Whatever it was, I'll always think of terrorism first.

414 Thom  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:45:04am

Here are a few web sites where you can discuss Terri Schiavo to your heart's content:

Discarded Lies (an excellent blog!)

Straight Up with Sherri (also very good, but graphics intensive)

Abstract Appeal

Life Matters!

Democrats.com

Majikthise

Wizbang

Technorati

Little Red Blog

Blogtalker

Etc.

415 BabbaZee  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:45:23am

#406 WriterMom
I would rip their heart out with my bare hands and savour their demise.

Ya damn straight, righteous mamma!

416 alkmyst  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:45:24am

Morning y'all! It just gets better each day!

This here is a riot...those crazy NZ'ers...

New Zealand MK: 'Make Vanunu Citizen'
12:59 Mar 21, '05 / 10 Adar 5765

(IsraelNN.com) A New Zealand parliament member jibed Israel today with a suggestion that his country grant Mordechai Vanunu citizenship as a response to suspicions that Israeli intelligence officials forged New Zealand passports. Vanunu worked in the Dimona nuclear facility until he leaked information on Israel's nuclear capability. Israel last year freed him from jail after he served 18 years.

New Zealand legislator Keith Locke of the Green Party said Vanunu deserves freedom. Locke said giving him New Zealand citizenship would be significant because the country is nuclear-free.

Good, 18 years for leaking classified information. Let's compare that with the Attorney General that's in sharon's pocket, and what he thinks deserves prison time...

A-G Mazuz: 20 Years in Jail for Traffic Jammers
13:59 Mar 21, '05 / 10 Adar 5765

(IsraelNN.com) Anti-disengagement protesters who seriously disrupt traffic face up to 20 years in jail, Attorney General Meni Mazuz warned today. He told police officials that freedom of expression does not include causing civil disturbances. A few dozen protesters last week tied up Tel Aviv traffic for hours when they burned tires on a major highway.

Mazuz said he will seek the harshest punishment possible under the law. He added that disturbing traffic restricts the public's freedom. Police official have said that the toughest part of the planned evacuation this summer might be demonstrations throughout the country at the same time that most of the police force will be in the 25 Jewish communities to be dismantled.

I'm still a little upset that when the LLLabor union workers shut down the ports, I had to wait over 2 months for much needed shipment from home to arrive.

...waiting for fair and balanced treatment...

417 Poitiers-Lepanto  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:45:44am

#406 WriterMom

Thank you for telling us.

I am sure that Charles doesn't want anything like the thread of some days ago.

I am unable to keep my mouth shut.

Because I have been here and I would have cut my heart out of my chest to save the Life that was being maimed by a stroke: I begged the Doctors but they could not do anything to save that Person, not even put Her in a coma (and Terri isn't in a coma).

Too many talk without having been there.

418 Dave Ray  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:45:52am
Nothing like seeing your horse come across the finish line first at blazing speed.

...or seeing it fall at the first and trying to explain to your partner where £50 has gone!

419 American Infidel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:46:20am
420 quark2  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:47:38am

@408 Ed etc the weather man

We have a new minion...who is in the Navy and his job is the weather department. :)

His nic is inverted trof...

421 traveler  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:48:05am

#414 Thom

Well done!

422 WriterMom  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:49:21am

#414 Thom

Great idea to put those up here-it's a hot topic, and people are very passionate, but I honestly believe that LGF is not the right forum for the discussion. I don't know what happened Friday night (due to Shabbat) and am not really interested in reading the thread-it sounds awful.

423 quark2  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:49:58am

@418 Dave Ray

I saw three very intelligent fun luving guys bet on a race and win 20 cents. *lol

424 WriterMom  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:51:23am

#417 P.L

Many of us lizards have either walked in the Valley of the Shadow of Death, or had relatives take strolls there-so we are very sensitive and passionate. I still think that if Charles wanted the discussion here, he would post a thread about it. It is a very important topic but there are other places that are probably more appropriate. Just MHO.

425 quark2  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:52:25am

@422 WriterMom

You'll only scorch your eyes reading that thread...good thing is though...Thom outed a troll who got banned...again.
Moishe Pipick= 8 year old suicide bomber

426 American Infidel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:52:46am
427 manker  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:53:14am

#400 Spiritualized


F**k them! There aren't any "peace efforts" and certainly not any from the Arabs.

like I said in 236

Right so I guess building a few houses is the equivalent of mortaring, multiple attempted stabbings, shooting attacks everyday, and ever increasing fire bomb attacks. And o'yes lets not forget the suicide bombing, but I guess since Abbas blames that on Israel too, I supose it doesn't count.

428 Thom  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:53:14am

#422 WriterMom

It was awful, and many true colors emerged.

My Asshat List expanded dramatically.

429 traveler  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:54:36am

#425 quark2

Moshe got banned? (How do we find out when trolls are tossed over the bridge?)

(as traveler wipes away fake tears and pretends to cry "I'm gonna miss that guy"...)

430 Jheka  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:55:51am

Well, I've finally figured Bigel out. It's not that he hates Europe or the U.N. or hippies (I always picture bigel as Cartman in my mind's eye) ... it's that, under the guise of passionately advocating for Israel and the Jews, he wants to transform the world to accommodate his fetish.

Think about it ... when was the last time you heard bigel go on a "nuke China" or "nuke Thailand" rant? Wouldn't that be ... never?

Bigel ... many, many Jewish men suffer from Woody Allenism and I wish them, and you, happiness ... but there's no reason to go all world-transforming-evil-genius about it.

431 WriterMom  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:57:29am

#425 quark2

I don't think I will read it then..I'll get too upset.

#428 Thom

Really :(

It is obviously another topic that brings out extremes in language and emotion. Very unfortunate.

432 traveler  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 5:59:40am

#431 WriterMom

It is obviously another topic that brings out extremes in language and emotion. Very unfortunate.

Yeah -- we need another Teh-reh-zuh "gin soaked raisin" thread to get us laughing together again.

433 BabbaZee  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:00:26am

the evil friday thread crashed my computer !
oh well - I'm better of for it.

434 Rednek  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:00:59am
435 alkmyst  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:01:14am
#374 American Infidel 3/21/2005 07:14AM PST
I wanted to know, if Jerusalem has both Jewish and Arab moslem sections, do the authorities on both sides have a way of not permitting Jews from buying up properties that are for sale in the Arab moslem sections?

I didn't mention Christians cause I am not sure if any live in Jerusalem...

Well, as much as anyone in Israel actually owns property in Israel (system of leasing from the government is more accurate) Christians have alot of buildings in Jersualem, less so in other areas, but obviously some in Bethlehem, where they have been steadily leaving since it was handed to the muzzles... remember the whole Church of the Nativity being taken over by terrorists fiasco? I'm honestly surprised that Christians put up with that, and are so careful about not destroying mosques in iraq and elsewhere...

Actually, the Greek Orthodox owns a lot of property in Jersualem. Unfortunately, some high-level members of the G.O church are blatantly anti-Jewish, and get support from none other than, you guessed it, traitor-in-chief arik sharon...

Irineos Again: Took Part in P.A. Meeting
11:43 Jan. 08, '03 / 5 Shevat 5763

Irineos, of the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate in Israel, is continuing with his anti-Israel activities. The official PA news agency reports that he took part in a PA leadership meeting two days ago in Ramallah. He departed after the meeting for Bethlehem to lead a Christian religious service. Arutz-7 reported two weeks ago that Prime Minister Sharon wanted to appoint Irineos as head of the Greek Orthodox Church in Israel, despite the latter's ties with Arafat. Sharon has apparently abandoned that idea, in face of heavy objections from most government ministers.

More about Irineos here.

As for the muzzles, it's simple. I think there's a fatwa that if a muzzle sells property to a Jew, they're killed for collaborating. Justice, muzzle-stylee!

436 Jheka  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:02:11am

One quick note about Friday's thread.

I think I owe the Lizards an apology. The nasty e-mail that I got was likely from my stalker, who sends me (and Charles) nasty anonymous e-mails with some regularity. I have a hunch that he stumbled on the thread, saw the carnage, and decided to take advantage, hoping to create even more strife by posing as a hateful LGFer.

I could be wrong, but I don't believe that anyone who was active in the thread sent that e-mail. Again, my apologies for publicly reacting to it.

437 Abu Messerschmitt  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:03:50am

#422, #428 --- I skimmed the thread this morning. I didn't think it was much uglier than the typical Rachel Corrie thread. There was one really obnoxious individual (whom I didn't recall seeing on any other thread before).

All the same, it's one of those discussions best pursued elsewhere.

438 grayp  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:04:14am

OT

Mornin minions. Haven't read the thread and looks like I missed something Friday nite. But I did want to take this opportunity to note more French asshatted-ness.

French Interior Minister Dominique de Villepin and leaders of the country's Muslim community on Monday signed the statutes setting up a "Foundation for Islam" which will be used to finance the development of the religion in France.

439 American Infidel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:05:48am
440 Jheka  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:06:25am
441 American Infidel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:07:45am
442 alkmyst  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:08:14am
#439 American Infidel 3/21/2005 08:05AM PST
#435 alkmyst

I'm honestly surprised that Christians put up with that, and are so careful about not destroying mosques in iraq and elsewhere...

Why?

I was thinking in areas other than Israel... :-)

ooops gotta get back to work...

443 Smit  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:10:48am

#440 Jheka - Did you ever find out who that hate mail was from?

444 American Infidel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:11:19am
445 FabioC.  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:12:39am

#334 Golden Jerusalem

My site is experiencing some problems. I spoke to a copper, and he said 35 - 40 000 protestors, that is by no means huge.

446 American Infidel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:13:34am
447 bigel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:14:51am
448 'Nam Grunt  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:15:09am

The 'supreme leader' of Iran has said that he is prepared to fight to the death in the event of a war with the US. I think we should appease his sorry a$$, today couldn't be sooner!

449 bigel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:16:19am
450 Golden Jerusalem  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:18:09am

#445 Fabio C.:

Just as I thought. I mentioned the BBC didn't give an estimate, as the turnout was disappointing by its standards.

Too bad about the site. Let me know when you get it fixed.

451 bigel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:18:23am
452 Ed from Ohio  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:19:09am

google sucks anyway

453 Sean  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:19:16am

WebSense no likey National Vanguard...

...if it ain't safe for work Google, how is it a legitimate news source?

454 Jheka  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:19:35am

#443 Smit:

No one stepped up. A lot of people stepped up to say that it wasn't them. Like I said, I believe it was my stalker, who is also Charles' most prolific stalker who is also, I believe, one of the people who was harrassing Iron Fist. He has sent me dozens of anonymous e-mails, so it fits his M.O.

455 American Infidel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:19:51am
456 Golden Jerusalem  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:21:03am

#446 A.I.:

Yeah, i just watched the Kofi on the Beeb giving his "reform" briefing now.

Too late to save his sorry ass, IMO.

457 Jheka  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:21:33am

#451 bigel:

I have a 20+ name backlog for the next GBMT from some frighteningly enthusiastic women... and virtually no names on the female side of the ledger ... I am taking suggestions.

458 'Nam Grunt  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:23:24am

#455 American Infidel,

Although I would love to see some Tomahawks and Jdams fill the sky over Iran, I treasure the thought of a 50cal. between the eyes from a sniper would probably make me feel all funny below the waist. :-)

459 American Infidel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:24:07am
460 bigel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:24:10am
461 bigel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:26:20am
462 American Infidel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:26:38am
463 quark2  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:28:33am

@429 traveler

*lol
Hands traveler a pretend hanky. :)

464 bigel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:28:41am
465 Bunker Buster  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:29:36am

I can't believe what shmucks run Google. It just figures LGF would get blacklisted while the nuttiest of the nutters would get full billing.

466 selpaw  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:31:36am

#383 Poitiers-Lepanto

Being able to discuss like this and remain consequent is the core of being free from ideologies.

Well said. Thank you.

396 WriterMom
Got the first one and now I am waiting for the payload;- ))

467 American Infidel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:31:40am
468 'Nam Grunt  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:32:38am

Why even concern ourselves with what gooledegook thinks of us, it's their problem not ours.

469 American Infidel[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:33:05am
470 quark2  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:36:49am

@438 grayp

I have an idea for a booming business. Let's go into the praying rug (buzzing kind) and hijab manufacturing business. They're going to be needing them pretty quick.

/get rich quick scheme

471 traveler  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:41:21am

#470 quark2

Hmmm...Get rich quick schemes targeting Muslims...

How about something like Richard Simmons' "Deal A Meal" setup, but it could be "Deal a Good Deed"...

You can only kill one infidel a day, though...

472 NY Nana  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 6:49:07am

#269 V the K

THat is the first time I regret ever clicking on a link you have provided. I guess the answer there is no defined low that they will reach. They are vile. For any LLL lurkers? FOAD.

Thanks for that, even though it is so sick...it's a learning experience, I guess.

There should be some news from the Federal Court by 3 PM.

473 LemonJoose  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 7:00:14am

#120:

You're right -- a boycott by LGF users alone would be ineffectual. What would work is if somebody like Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh picked up on Google News' bias and gave them some nice negative publicity. I doubt many advertisers would like to be associated with a search engine that serves up white supremacist propaganda while locking out a Jewish/Israeli-interest blog like LGF (especially one that helped break a major news story like the forged nature of the Bush TANG memos that CBS used on air).

474 quark2  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 7:07:15am

@471 traveler

Uh, with so many swarming the face of the earth, one a day ( like the vitamin) would be like taking two steps back to one forward (hi MikeC). We'll need an around the clock process doncha think? :)

475 ubangi  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 7:10:23am

No surprise about google. It is a French company, isn't it?

476 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 7:23:14am
477 trip  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 7:29:38am

I knew that they were out there - but I have never seen them before!

What a bunch of freaked out, miserable idiots - perhaps on the same level as kos kids and du!

478 WriterMom  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 8:18:53am

#464 bigel

I have e-mailed Ploomie and not gotten a response :(

Haven't seen her around much...

479 zulubaby  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 9:10:47am

MARS Trucker (#90)

...and zulubaby and Bubble Girl as well as the rest of our female Lizardoids are perfect the way they are...no beauty sleep required.

Just as well since I only had 1 1/2 hours sleep last night.

480 jake  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 9:20:09am

#241 bigel

Why should this linking to Nazi sites surprise anyone? One of Google's founders is Russian.

And we all know what Russians think of Jews..they make the Brits look tolerant.

Umm, Sergey Brin is a Russian Jew. Which makes the whole "linking to neo-Nazis" even more ironic.

481 J.D.  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 9:20:44am

#464 Who Watches the Watchmen
Oh, yeah! She was there with Charlie Rangel and Ramsey Clark.
And wait! There was one more...

482 J.D.  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 9:23:31am

#481 WWtW
The other one was just a lowly NY Councilperson.
Activist Anniversary

483 J.D.  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 9:24:15am

#464 WWtW
Up too late.

484 ploome hineni[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 9:25:18am
485 ploome hineni[deleted]  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 9:26:45am
486 WriterMom  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 9:31:24am

plooomie {forbidden hugs}

Getting something organizine for dinner...e-mail when you have a chance :)

487 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 1:55:41pm
488 V the K  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 1:58:20pm
#476 Who Watches the Watchmen?

Do not click this link.

Oh, Heavenly Father, for this blessing of captionable horror, we do give Thee thanks...

489 Duke Newcombe  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 3:49:50pm

Google's Image Search is actually inferior to Yahoo's (1 billion images indexed versus 1.5 billion).

So make sure you use Yahoo for all your image searches.

490 piglet  Mon, Mar 21, 2005 7:47:41pm

is it possible that one or two low level lsrael haters are behind this and not greater google policy? or is this widespread like at Denny's?

491 enoughalready  Tue, Mar 22, 2005 4:31:07am

Actually I think this may have something to do with original content. Rather than anything else that is.

492 Dirk Diggler  Wed, Mar 23, 2005 10:45:49am

Okay Jheka,

Where on your website are these Asian beauties bigel was referring too?


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