LGF

more options

  

Advertisement

Muslims Upset Over Maryland School Calendar

Wed, May 11, 2005 at 10:08:10 am PDT

New School Calendar Omits Muslim Holidays, and Muslim activists are seething and demanding special treatment. (Hat tip: unclebubba.)

TOWSON, Md. (AP) - A school calendar that omits two Muslim holidays has been presented to the Baltimore County board of education.

Muslim activists say they will continue to press school officials to amend the calendar. But school officials say adding the Muslim holidays would set a precedent for other religions and ethnic groups.

Baltimore County superintendent Joe Hairston said tonight that school officials have to look at a much broader view than just one community, and be sensitive to three-quarters of a million people.

But Muslim leader Bash Pharoan says the calendar “feels discriminatory.” County schools are closed for the Jewish holiday of Yom Kippur and for Christmas, but the system’s proposed calendar doesn’t recognize two of Islam’s holiest days.

Advertisement

385 comments

  • Comments are open and unmoderated, and do not necessarily reflect the views of Little Green Footballs.
  • Obscene, abusive, silly, or annoying remarks may be deleted, but the fact that particular comments remain on the site in no way constitutes an endorsement of their views by Little Green Footballs.
  • Posts that contain phone numbers, street addresses, email addresses or other personal information will also be deleted, as will posts that consist only of a variation on the word, "First!"
  • Comments that advocate violence will be cause for immediate banning with no appeal.
  • Disagreement and debate are welcome, but insults and abuse are not, and may cause your account to be blocked.
  • REMEMBER: posting comments at LGF is a privilege, not a right. Abuse that privilege, and your account will be blocked.

Hide comments | Jump to bottom

1 # 17  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:10:21am

Are Muslim kids forced to go to such schools ?

2 American Infidel[deleted]  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:10:43am
3 Gordon  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:10:56am

If there are more Muslims than Jews in the Baltimore City schools, and the schools close for Yom Kippur, then they should close for the Muslim Holidays too.

Christmas doesn't count because it is during the winter holiday season anyway.

4 Bad Mushrooms  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:11:06am

If it is so important take the day off. Get over it.

5 UFO TOFU  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:11:12am

My God, what next?

6 John  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:11:40am

Recommend that the Baltimore County Board of Education suggest that the activists all move to Saudi Arabia, or Hell.

7 Whole Wheat Bagel  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:11:54am

Maybe they can add September 11, 2001 as a holiday.

8 indolene  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:11:59am
But Muslim leader Bash Pharoan says the calendar “feels discriminatory.”

Bash Pharoan's statement feels retarted.

9 Mentat  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:12:05am

Better add the holidays of every religious faith in America:

[Link: belief.net...]

Oh, and don't forget to take the quiz to find out what religion you really are (Belief-o-matic knows!):

[Link: belief.net...]

10 voletti  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:12:21am

Its important the school board stay firm.
Give these loons an inch and they'll bloody take a mile.

11 USMC RECON  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:14:44am

Hey Bash, become an American first.

12 Model4  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:14:57am

Leave.

Celebrate your hateful asses off back in the Ummah.

Oh, and thanks to all the Hindus and Bhuddists here who don't see our predominately Judaeo-Christian heritage and traditions as a humiliating assault on their ability to breathe the same air as us.

Trust me, it's only going to get worse. Every Western country is looking at the other waiting for it to act first, providing cover for the actions they're going to have to take.

/waves hello to the French and Dutch

13 sue  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:15:13am

Just one more way of insideously proclaiming that Muslims and Islam are majority and mainstream. Christians and Jews don't count. We do, and you can't discriminate against us. We .feel hurt

14 Roger  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:15:47am

Let me guess. One of their holiest days is 9/11?

15 WarBicycle  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:16:11am

Islam refuses to recognize the holildays of other religions but expects us to recognize its holy days. Perhaps it's time we treat Muslims in a manner similar to which Muslims treat Christians and Jews living in Muslim nations.

16 Endangered in Mass  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:16:27am

What are the two "holidays"?

Death to Infidels Day and More Death to Indidels Day?

17 Crimsonfisted  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:16:53am

Dollars to doughnuts the school board caves.

18 Poitiers-Lepanto  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:17:56am

We do whatever they want,AS SOON AS there will be religious freedom in every muslim country, as soon as they pay back the money they stole to the Jews they threw away from their countries in the last sixty years, as soon as Christians and Jews and Buddhist (etc.) can live, teach and proselytize in all the muslim countries, as soon as they recognize the rights of women, as soon as they start a proactive fight against whomever in their communities preaches and organizes jihad.
Otherwise they can just pack and go back to their tents in the desert, NO MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE are welcome here.

Friggin invaders.

19 jgold  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:18:03am

What do Muslims bring to the table? I mean what do they do that is good for society? All I ever hear is them bitch abouth this group or that group and how they are victims of this or that. It's really getting pathetic.

Can someone tell me one thing they have done that is good for American society?

20 Deuce  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:18:04am

Well why not a day off for Ramadamadingdong for whatever they call it.

21 Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:18:09am

#3 Gordon

We're not your daddy, okay?

22 not neo just conservative  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:18:42am

Unless it is some sort of parochial school, it shouldn't be shut down for ANY religious holiday, unless it is also a national holiday. Christmas for example. If Ramadan becomes a national holiday, then we can talk about it. Of course, if Ramadan becomes a national holiday, most of us here will be dead after fighting a desperate last stand against the jihad...

23 FreakyBoy  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:19:02am

Bash, you know what also "feels discriminatory”?

Being tortured or killed for even celebrating Yom Kipper or Christmas in the backward countries where islam is the majority.

F- off

24 Crimsonfisted  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:19:15am
Christmas doesn't count because it is during the winter holiday season anyway.

Isn't Christmas WHY there is a winter holiday?

25 USMC RECON  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:19:19am

YOU KNOW.I put a few droplets on the ground for this country and I'm starting to get real nervous over the direction we seem to be going.

26 KWH  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:19:22am

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! His ice cream cone is bigger..WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! Ri-friggin-diculous!

27 Joel  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:20:17am

OT - P.A. to sound siren on 'Nakba Day'

The Palestinians are planning to mark Israel's Independence Day by sounding a siren as an expression of mourning. The siren will be sounded throughout the West Bank and Gaza Strip at noon on Sunday, and Palestinians have been asked to stand still for one minute to protest the establishment of Israel.

I always thought they mourned by firing their AK-47s in the air, and deploying a couple suicide bombers. (Same as their celebrations.)

28 Powderfinger  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:20:46am

Someone told me that Liberals are traitors.

I believe it.

29 abontje  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:20:46am

You know the saying.

Death by a thousand cuts!

This is just going to be another one in a long line of cuts. I'll bet y'all the school board caves in. PC and all, you know!

30 puff  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:21:11am

Did I just hear an ACLU phone ringing?

31 Broomer  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:21:53am

Here only one suburban school district closes for Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur and it's due to too many absenses. It was probably more economical feasible to just close the schools than to find substitute teachers and make up homework for the Jewish students.

Not all school districts close for the High Holiday, only one or two with high number of Jewish students and teachers.

But I think the real purpose of the muslim leaders doing this is to force the board of education to either start honoring other holidays or to stop closing on Jewish High Holidays. Wouldn't surprise me if the ACLU and other LLL are going to start getting involved to demand that all school districts be prohibited from closing schools on Jewish High Holidays due to separation of state and church.

JG

32 Canadhimmis  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:22:05am

# 3 Gordie,

Christmas doesn't count because it is during the winter holiday season anyway.

Earth to Gord.......take a wild guess as to what "the winter holiday season" is based on.

33 Village Idiot's Apprentice  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:22:31am

Gordon

Christmas doesn't count because it is during the winter holiday season anyway.

Exactly what "Winter Holiday" are we celebrating if we remove christmas?
Sorta like, if we roll all these other holidays into the same time period, than Christmas becomes diluted somehow.

BTW, I live in B-more and have been watching this on the news closely.

I can't wait to see the comments section of the Baltimore Sun (local rag) and listen to the liberals try to get their brains around this one.

34 Joel  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:22:35am

The ehadline of this thread ""Muslims Upset _______" fill in the blank

My question is "When are those assholes not upset"?

35 Innismir  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:22:53am

Why are religous holidays celebrated at all? I understand if the holiday fall on the accepted break periods or State/Federal Holidays (eg, Christmas), but why should there be special holidays for purely religous reasons? If you want to celebrate it, there's be nothing stopping you from staying home 'sick'.

36 FriarsTale  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:23:11am

where's the darn ACLU when u need 'em?

37 Gagdad Bob  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:23:14am

What's the big deal? Their holiest day, September 11, usually falls before the beginning of the school year.

38 Poitiers-Lepanto  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:23:33am

There is no way we solve these problems, they are doing the same everywhere in the world.

They are just invading the whole world.
And nobody is doing ANYTHING to stop them.

39 Carl B  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:23:47am

Splodydon and Ein-Your-Face are not holidays I want my kids to celebrate, thank you. We don't need to show special deference to the intolerant.

40 godfrey  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:24:50am

How about a constructive holiday, like INDEPENDENCE DAY for AFGHANISTAN and IRAQ from decades of brutal tyranny?

The School Board should counter-propose with those dates. Just a thought.

/

41 puff  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:25:00am

"Holiday" = "Holy day"

That is where the word comes from......

42 Necklace of Shoes  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:25:26am

Well I think they should include, at minimun, the date of The Headchopper's Ball

43 Californican  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:25:35am

Oh goody, a holiday for every holy day of every religion! It's going to be a non-stop party! Yes, yes, this is good because I would like to celebrate them all.

44 Dov (In the Astrodome City) Republic of Texas  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:26:08am

We need to make every day a Holy Day so the [bigoted word]s don't hijack them first

45 abontje  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:26:18am

#3 Gordie

What, you can't say it?

It's called the "Christmas Holiday!"

At least it was when I grew up. Before the LLL's screwed our country up.

46 Cato the Elder  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:27:03am

I live in Maryland, a bastion of knee-jerk liberalism. It will be interesting to see how this shakes out.

Amerabia is a distinct possibility, folks. The natural desire to compromise plus the fear of losing our heads or other bodily members if we don't.

I'm not very sanguine about the prospects of a non-dhimmi response from the State of Maryland to requests like these.

47 RoughRider  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:27:45am

What's the big deal? Their holiest day, September 11, usually falls before the beginning of the school year.

Not in Texas. There are so many holidays and "teacher workshops" that many schools in the Dallas area start in mid-August when afternoon temps still routinely top out in triple digits.

The other explanation I've heard is the early starts are pushed by the football coaches so they can start practices earlier in the summer.

48 W-lover  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:28:16am

nodrog-

Christmas doesn't count because it is during the winter holiday season anyway.

Why do you think that is?

49 manker  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:28:16am

What precentage does the muslim population there represent?

50 Californican  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:28:24am

Being a lizard, I'd like to proclaim every sunny day a holiday. I worship the great sun god "TANMYBUNS"

51 Spiny Norman  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:28:34am

#33 Village Idiot's Apprentice

Exactly what "Winter Holiday" are we celebrating if we remove christmas?

The old pagan European Winter Solstice celebration, of course. All very politically correct, you see. So-called liberals believe all referrences to Christianity MUST be removed from public life, but accomodations MUST be made for the followers of the Paedophile Prophet. All very "inclusive".

52 godfrey  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:28:34am

Celebrate them all, Californican? What would Scientologists celebrate, say? Tom Cruise's raffish smile? Hi everybody! Happy Wacked-Out Hubbard Day! Here's a free poster from "Risky Business"! Vintage!

53 Owl  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:28:38am

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!

Insanity. I suppose you'll want off work too?

There is going to have to be an "America First" movement ( or call it what you like) if we are going to survive this attack. Even if we prevent them from attacking again with planes or bombs, they are going to attack us intellectually, verbally.....people they are trying to wipe out anything but Islam and the word has got to get out and get out NOW. We had better be getting out the message that the Muslims are trying to take over, BEFORE anything you say against them becomes a hate crime. big brother is waiting in the wings and if WE LET THIS HAPPEN then I have no pity for us.


WE ARE AMERICANS. THIS IS OUR COUNTRY AND WE BETTER START FIGHTING FOR IT IF WE WANT TO KEEP IT.

GORDON, SHUT UP.


owl

( yeah, I'm pretty freaking angry - sorry)

54 W-lover  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:28:54am

AI-

Ameri-rabia here we come ! ! !

Death first!

55 Joel  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:29:22am

Gordon:

How about Festivus?

56 Golem Akbar  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:29:27am

Don't forget to close the schools for Buddah's birthday, too. And while we're at it, I think we should also be celebrating the anniversary of Disneyland's opening (all month long in May). Thanks RoP. Now move on. (dot org)

57 puff  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:29:53am

Let's see........

I'm not a President, but I get President's Day off
I'm not a civil rights leader, but I get MLK Day off
I'm not a veteran, but I get Memorial Day off
I tend not to celebrate New Year's Day (no specific reason, I just don't), but I get the day off

Heck, I don't get Easter off.......

Perhaps I should complain...or should I?

/sarcasm

58 Californican  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:30:22am

...and if the fish are biting.

59 Innismir  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:30:40am

#33 Village Idiot's Apprentice

Exactly what "Winter Holiday" are we celebrating if we remove christmas?

Winter Solstice, Chanukah, Kwannza (ugh), Boxing Day :)

60 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:31:07am

I grew up in Encino, which is a very Jewish part of Los Angeles. At Encino Elementary School we all got Yom Kippur and Rosh Hashanah off, Jewish or not....because if the school were to stay open there would be less than 50% attendence. Half of the students were Jewish.

My cousins that lived in other less-Jewish parts
of LA did not get these days off.

If the Baltimore School Disct. has an area where 50% of the students are Muslim then they might have a point.....otherwise, get over it.

61 Model4  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:31:09am

#27 Joel:

The Palestinians are planning to mark Israel's Independence Day by sounding a siren as an expression of mourning. The siren will be sounded throughout the West Bank and Gaza Strip at noon on Sunday, and Palestinians have been asked to stand still for one minute to protest the establishment of Israel.

Gosh that's funny. I was under the impression that Jordyptians simply wanted to live in peace side-by-side with the state of Israel, which they accept as a neighbor.

At least that's what liberals keeps saying, despite the words and actions of the PLO.

62 Canadhimmis  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:31:26am

Maryland will fold on this one. Maryland is dhimmi central.

63 godfrey  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:32:09am

...and if the surf's up.

...and of course the opening of Deer Season.

64 The Angel Michael  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:32:24am

Where is the "cry baby" picture?

65 westoner  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:32:42am

#3 Gordon

"If there are more Muslims than Jews in the Baltimore City schools, and the schools close for Yom Kippur, then they should close for the Muslim Holidays too."

Again, the blind PC assumption that islam is just another religion.

Please name one other 'religion' that advocates death for anyone wishing to leave it.

I’ll make it even easier for you. Name one other ideology (religious or secular) that has a ‘leave and you’re dead’ clause and is given official recognition by the state?

This little 'quirk' of islam alone must make it technically illegal in most of the west.

66 JammieWearingFool  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:33:10am

Oh well.

Move somewhere else.

We were not found as a muslim nation, so piss off.

You think these assholes would be a bit more contrite in light of certain events and try to make amends.

But no, they'd rather stick in our faces.

That'll win us over.

67 Joel  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:33:25am

Gordon: For Festivus (which falls out every December 23 no matter what day of the week that is) I will make a contriubtion in your name to The Human Fund - "Money for People."

68 ToxMan  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:34:06am

How many calendars have special days listed on them, but ARE NOT CELEBRATED? I don't remember the last time I celebrated Boxer Day. But, I don't live in Canada either.

Are they going to list every friggin' special day on every friggin' calendar to be PC?

Hope not...

Wait til "the Hallmark people" weigh in on this one.

69 greenmamba  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:34:09am

#3 Gordon

If there are more Muslims than Jews in the Baltimore City schools, and the schools close for Yom Kippur, then they should close for the Muslim Holidays too.

Well what if the number of Muslim students is 95% the number of Jewish students? Your math discriminates against Muslims.

Also it seems that the schools only close for one Jewish holiday; there are others. This means that the Muslims are entitled to only one closing.

As for your comment about Christmas being in the middle of the winter holiday, everyone knows that this holiday is only because of Christmas. Possibly the whole system should be restructured. Oh I know the Jews never complained. Why should they - extra holidays, the lazy sods. But now that the Muslims are complaining we should look at it.

// Gordon's Daddy.
// Run along now. Play your harmonica son.
70 BabbaZee  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:35:07am

Don't speak to it and it will drown in it's own bile.

71 Vickie  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:35:07am

This is really making me angry. Do you know how many years Jews politely asked for Jewish Children to be allowed Unexcused absences for our two Holidays? (3 days at the most) We've been in the US and contributed in every way for almost 400 years...and didn't dare even ask about this issue until recently. (last 30 years or so) And here we are, with Muslims just arriving in the US and almost immediately DEMANDING that their numerous holidays be listed and G-d knows what for their children. All I can say is: What a diff it makes when you are a large and violent group. Bet they get what they want. If not right this minute..a year or so down the line.

Jews don't get off for Chanukah..Dont get off for Passover..or any other of our Holidays..just the two Holidays and I don't know if we get TWO days for Rosh Hashona or not..Didnt used to. (last I heard the STATE decided that Jews were only allowed ONE Day for Rosh Hashona..That Holiday is in fact a TWO day holiday)

72 Joel  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:35:22am

61 Model 4

Gosh that's funny. I was under the impression that Jordyptians simply wanted to live in peace side-by-side with the state of Israel, which they accept as a neighbor.

But, but, I thought that there ws a Road Map to Treblinka er Peace that was going to produce two states Israel and Palestine living side by side in peace where they hold hands and sing Kumbaya.

73 Golem Akbar  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:35:33am

I'm an American Jew. When my kids were little and in public grade school (yeah, mistake), they did not get off for Jewish holidays. We had to get permission from the schools, which was never a problem. So what that they got off for Christmas or Easter. This is a Christian country, and we respect that fact. In fact, because this is a Christian country, we are able to practice our religion.

In most Moslem countries you can't practice any religion but Moslem.

74 bianchi_roadie  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:35:35am

#3 Gordon

Don't know of the actual percentages of residents, but there are a lot of Russian Jews in and around Baltimore. Most emigrated in the 80's and 90's. Frankly I'm surprised Baltimore Co. schools record Yom Kippur, or any religous holiday for that matter. They're very PC here.

75 BabbaZee  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:35:38am

Festivus Frikkin Minimus!

76 Lizard by the Bay  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:35:42am

I'm surprised that the school is closed for Yom Kippur. When I went to school, Jews were able to miss that day without penalty, but the rest of us still had to go.

77 W-lover  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:36:09am

ToxMan-

How many calendars have special days listed on them, but ARE NOT CELEBRATED? I don't remember the last time I celebrated Boxer Day. But, I don't live in Canada either.

My favorite is ANZAC Day.

78 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:36:59am

I've mentioned this before. Obviously, with the Muslim calendar, based on a primitive moon god religion with a 28 day cycle and no relation to a solar calendar, is just hard to integrate with a Western calendar.


But, with Labor Day 3 weeks prior, Thanksgiving 2 months away, and the weather in most of the country still good enough for outdoor activity, lets declare the third or fourth Monday in September as "Eid-al-Fitr" day. A three day weekend when Americans can reflect on the role of Arab and Muslim culture in the US. Things like bringing the Hindu concept of "zero" to the West, the invention of the word "algebra", the rearrangement of the Manhattan skyline.

We'll BBQ hot dogs and bacon cheeseburgers and spareribs, drink beer, wear bathing suits. Maybe a special weekend of college football. "The Eid Pigskin Classic". A special Friday night NASCAR race.

Maybe Neiman-Marcus and Sak's will have special "Eid Weekend Sales".

Maybe even TV specials, Neil Diamond concerts where he sings inspiring things about Mohammad.


Really, it sounds like a wonderful way to show our Muslim immigrants just how much we appreciate them.

79 Marine Mom  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:37:11am

#6 John
#7 Whole Wheat Bagel
#18 Poitiers-Lepanto
Yes, yes, and yes.
Followers of Mohammed,
TOO FREAKIN' BAD!
And yes, I'm thinking the school board may cave on this. As long as the general public is clueless about islam, there will be caving, giving in, accomodating.
Remember the scene in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, where the pretty girl is about to be lowered into the fiery pit by the bad guys, and Indiana has been drugged/hypnotized, and she's crying, "Wake up, Indie, wake up!"
That's how I feel.
Wake up, America.

80 Village Idiot's Apprentice  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:37:20am

Innismir

Winter Solstice, Chanukah, Kwannza (ugh), Boxing Day :)

And a Merry Winterboxed Chriskwannzukah to you as well.

Sorry, Merry Christmas just seems to "flow" easier.

I am afraid that the Board of Ed will cave on this item though. But, I will have to look up the demographics of B-more and see what percentage are Muslim.

81 frankp_63  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:37:51am

This guy doesn't seem to understand how the game works in this country. If the holiday is really so significant to you, keep your kids home that day. They'll be no more "victimized" than if they had to call in sick. If over the years (yes years, these things take years, and too bad if you can't wait) schools notice significant number of students out on a particular day they will raise the issue. That's the time to make your case to the school board.

Unless of course, your real reason for pushing Muslim holidays is simply to promote Islam.

82 manker  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:38:38am

#78 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades

LOL

83 winsmom  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:38:56am

#16 Endangered in Mass

"Death to Infidels Day and more Death to Infidels Day"

I have a nice little Sig Sauer and some hollow points to counter those celebrations.

84 Joel  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:38:58am

75 BabbaZee

George, Festivus is your heritage

Frank Costanza

I love the feats of strength part. Charles can go up agianst one of the trolls who infest this blog.

85 BabbaZee  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:39:14am

I think Peackeepers anal verge is now Islams 1,278th holiest site!
It appears no where on this calendar!
Jihad!

86 Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:39:33am

#78 Ed Mahmoud

LOL! Maybe we can make up a special "Eid al-Fitr" stamp, too. Oh wait, we already did...

87 BabbaZee  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:40:23am

#84 Joel
I grow weary of trolls and their moldering bile.

88 Lizard by the Bay  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:40:26am
I've mentioned this before. Obviously, with the Muslim calendar, based on a primitive moon god religion with a 28 day cycle and no relation to a solar calendar, is just hard to integrate with a Western calendar.

Careful, Ed, the Jewish calendar is also lunar. In fact, I believe there is a month they must actually repeat every few years to try to keep it somewhat in synch with Earth's orbit around the sun.

89 Ojoe  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:41:36am

Here are some other holidays that I DEMAND to be placed on ALL school calendars:

August 21: Garlic Salt Festival

Sept. 28: Opposum Festival

Nov. 15: Wart Hog Day

May 29: Fuzzy Hat Day

And Today: Parsley Festival.

I feel discriminated against.

/insanity mode off

90 our gal sal  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:42:43am

What are the chances of getting people to quit considering Islam as a religion and start thinking of it as a socio/political movement with religious overtones?
Most decent people want to give "religions" at least some consideration and are unwilling to criticize them - this will be our downfall.
It would help if we could put Islam in the same context as Communism. It wouldn't make any difference to some, but it would wake up others.

91 Renna  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:43:00am

Not until they agree to celebrate Talk Like A Pirate Day and the Great American BUYcott (of ammo).

92 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:43:06am

88
LbtB


But they manage to keep Chanukkah in December and Passover in the Spring, don't they.


Quick, what month is the Eid al Fitr in 2025 AD?

93 Smit  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:43:07am

OT - More evidence that socialism doesn't work - even when combined with Islam...

Socialist ideology remains deeply entrenched in the mindset of many Libyans.

Official estimates say 13% of Libyans are unemployed. With a local population of 5.5m people, half of whom are under 20, this is an alarming figure and one that calls for solutions...

"Previously, everyone who graduated from high school or universities was employed by the state," he said.

"Of course now the state is overcrowded by employees."

You've got to laugh.

Libya grapples with unemployment

Mr Zaidi went on to stress that the Revolutionary Committee movement does support moves towards privatisation, but not in a capitalist way.

How do you privatise in a non-capitalist way?
Sell to the lowest bidder?

94 Joel  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:44:03am

87 BabbaZee

You should have seen some of the trolls who used to come on this blog in past years. One was a typical Brit from Oxford that reeked of being totally dhimmized.

95 zombie  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:44:24am

What's really absurd about this is that Islam does not follow a solar calendar (i.e. not 365 days in a year), so that their holidays do NOT fall on the same time every year. In fact, they slowly migrate through the western calendar, moving several days forward every year. After a few decades, it will have made the complete cycle.

Maybe they should get back to us when they adopt the Gregorian Calendar.

Oh, by the way, I am a member of The Cult of the Purple Walrus! We have 17 holidays per year -- a year being exactly 273.6 days long. I DEMAND, and I mean DEMAND, that all school districts honor all 17 holidays!

What? You ignore me?

OK, how about if I add this: Purple Walrus acolytes around the world will call for your death if you do not accede. Oh, and we have a LOT of annoying lawyers who will sue you into oblivion unless you do what we say.

There. I thought you'd listen. Now, the first holiday we'll implement is Holy Tusk Day, which falls on January 26 this year... .

96 BabbaZee  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:44:28am

I don't see Theodor Herzl's or Frank Zappa's birthdays on this calendar. Now I AM offended.

97 jehu  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:44:37am

Sure and after we let them have Infidel day, then they are gonna want wife-beating day, then goat-fuckin day, then throat-slitting day, then call to pray to the Big Rock in the desert on loudspeaker 5 times a day. Before you know it we will have about as much freedom as Republicans at Harvard.

98 Dave the.....  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:44:45am
It's called the "Christmas Holiday!"


Actually I have to agree with Gordon here. It is no longer known as Christmas in the gov't run world.

Even my private employer has quietly put out notices that the word "Christmas" cannot be used in company material during that time of year.

99 cba  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:44:51am

Lizard, there's actually a leap year (with the extra month, as you say) seven times every 19 years. Once upon a time I could tell you where those leap years fell (3rd, 6th, 10th... ) but I've forgotten now.

100 Geepers  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:45:01am

Here's a listing of Catholic Feastdays.

I DEMAND that EACH AND EVERY ONE of them be put on the Baltimore Schools calenders because it “feels discriminatory" if they don't.

And yes, there are Feastdays for everyday on the calender.

101 Californican  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:45:06am
Talk Like A Pirate Day

Shiver me timbers! when be that, arrrrrr.

102 hepcat  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:45:17am

Here we go again...

103 BabbaZee  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:45:43am

Talk Like A Pirate Day
Shiver me timbers! when be that, arrrrrr.


Mind yer swabbin' you scurvy lot!
Arr Arrr!

104 DIAMONDMASC  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:46:44am

Lets see if i have this right, christians and jews are persecuted and killed trying to practice their religion in muslim countries. yet they come here and DEMAND we honor their religous holidays?. do something FOR this country instead of against it and maybe they would have room to talk. til then. they should shut up and be grateful we do not deport them en masse

105 Renna  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:46:48am

#101 californican

September 19th = Talk Like A Pirate Day.

106 # 17  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:46:50am

# 92 Ed

Depends when the Mufti or Iam declares it to be.
Based on sighting of the new Moon.

Wonder where they got that from ?

107 jehu  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:46:56am

As a conservative I need "liberals suck," day...kay?

108 Joel  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:47:10am

98 Dave the.....

I thought that the politcally correct term is "the Holiday Season." Soon the 3rd Monday in December will be the day we ahve off.

109 Ward Cleaver  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:47:21am

Bash Pharoan? Yes, let's.

110 American Infidel[deleted]  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:47:26am
111 BabbaZee  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:47:33am

Wonder where they got that from ?

Kleptokoranimals!

112 saylorfam  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:47:38am

Cry me a river

113 hepcat  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:47:55am

We do have an Islamic Holiday - it's called Memorial Day.

114 BabbaZee  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:48:03am

Jehu, have you heard? All liberals are still traitors.

115 Ojoe  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:48:05am

No. 101 Californican: Did you know that AVAST! means Stop!

116 Innismir  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:48:07am

#80 Village Idiots Appretance

And a Merry Winterboxed Chriskwannzukah to you as well.

Sorry, Merry Christmas just seems to "flow" easier.

I usually use the term "Happy BoxaChrismaKwanzaKah Solstice". :D

Agreed. Merry Christmas does sound better.

117 Vickie  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:48:42am

Anybody in Md. know if they changed the Rosh Hashona excused absence policy? Its a TWO DAY MAJOR Holiday and Md. Schools decided for Jews that it was a ONE DAY Holiday..

If Muslim students are being allowed to leave the classroom every day to pray and they are beginning to push for Holidays for themselves..then its time for Jews to demand that the full Holiday of Rosh Hashona be acknowledged. We've waited politely long enough. Sheesh

118 Renna  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:48:49am

November 19th = National Ammo BUYcott Day.

119 jehu  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:49:14am

BabbaZee

Why are you demeaning traitors?

120 Joel  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:50:37am

104 DIAMONDMASC
103 BabbaZee
91 Renna

On Talk Like A Pirate Day do we (the guys) get to wear a Puffy Shirt?

As you can tell I'm in a Seinfeld State of Mind this afternoon.

121 BabbaZee  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:51:15am

#119 jehu
LOL

122 Marine Mom  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:51:53am

#90 our gal sal
You are exactly right.
Considering islam a religion is a mistake.
I personally consider it an insane, evil death cult that wants to take over the world.
How do we get our government to do this?

123 Dave the.....  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:51:58am

#108 The company I work for has renamed Christmas to "Celebrate the Diversity of the Season".

As it's become rather large, they kiss PC butt like you wouldn't believe.

124 urthshu  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:52:23am

Pleeeaseeee make it stop....!

125 Renna  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:52:36am

You know, percentages be damned.

I don't care if they are 10, 20, or 99 percent of the student population, I still don't want to give a holiday to celebrate a death cult religion that adds nothing of value to this planet and has blood on all its borders.

126 Sheepdogess  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:53:01am

Kinda reminds me of the fear over Elvis's "thrusting pelvis" in the 1950's. They were right.

It's a slow death..

Amerika 2055

Hey mom, wheres my burka?

It's in your other mothers bedroom Aisha dear. Don't forget your koran.

Thanks mom, Allah akbar.

They never saw it coming.

127 W-lover  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:53:11am

Dave the...-

Actually I have to agree with Gordon here. It is no longer known as Christmas in the gov't run world.

Thanks to our LLL/Secularist friends! I say the opposite of nodroG- if it's going to be the "Winter Holiday" because "Christmas" is offensive, then perhaps all holidays should get some new PC name. Halloween can go by "Harvest Holiday". Independence Day can go by "Fireworks Holiday". And New Years Day can be called "Buy a New Calendar Day".

128 jehu  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:53:15am

Only way to stop this crap (aside from just kicking their asses back to one of the GREAT countries they came from).

Is to have NO religious holidays. Give kids 2 or 3 floating holidays to take on their own time. Call it whatever you want, or for whatever reason...this stuff sucks.

Like that town in Wisconsin that went and allowed the throat-slitters to have their little call of pray to Satan blaring out of loudspeakers 5 times a day. Guess cause the Catholics have been able to have bells or something was the LLL excuse.

129 Lizard by the Bay  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:53:32am

I've always liked Glen Beck's name for the Holiday Season:

Ramahannakwanzmas.

130 Dave the.....  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:54:09am
Government & employers appear to have ENDORSED THE RELIGION OF SECULARIZATION...


I wonder what would happen if they put out word that "Martin Luther King" day cannot be mentioned. Instead you have to call it National Heritage Day. This is to respect those who aren't African-Americans.

131 Californican  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:54:15am
Californican: Did you know that AVAST! means Stop!

I do now.

132 # 17  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:54:27am

Being serious for a moment, perhaps Sep 11 should be declared a national day of mourning and it be compulsory for all children, including those of the Muslim persuasion, to be taught the evils of terrorism.

133 Joel  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:55:09am

#123 Dave the.....

What diversity of the season are they talking about?

134 Renna  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:56:33am

#132 #17

Sept 19th is already "Patriot Day."

There is no reason why your suggestion couldn't become one of the traditional ways to remember that day.

135 jehu  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:56:35am

Damn! This makes me too mad anymore. Like watching cancer spread in a friend, and everyone around gets out party hats and plays twister, laughing their idiot heads off..."you got cancer?"

"Man that sounds really great, where do I get mine!"

136 Crimsonfisted  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:56:53am

I think Dr Ali Sina or Bat Ye'or or Daniel Pipes or Robert Spencer should have a chat with the school board.

137 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:57:01am

OT

That cell approaching Leavenworth, KS, while small, looks interesting to me.


KC Metro area is under a tornado watch.

No warnings at the current time.

138 W-lover  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:57:09am

#132 #17-

Being serious for a moment, perhaps Sep 11 should be declared a national day of mourning and it be compulsory for all children, including those of the Muslim persuasion, to be taught the evils of terrorism.

HEAR! HEAR!

139 BabbaZee  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:57:21am

#132 # 17
I second that.

140 Poitiers-Lepanto  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:57:36am

We must close the borders to muslim immigration, we must not allow here the same invasion that has killed Europe.

It's an invasion , idiot politicians !

They planned it !
They are carrying it on, it can be the end of everything we hold dear !

I thought that politicians could at least read, evidently the only thing they can do is live long lives doing nothing from dawn to sunset.

141 Ward Cleaver  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:57:38am

#47 RoughRider

I remember when DISD schools started right after Labor Day. This was in the '60s.

142 jemima  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:57:43am

The outrage! Imagine this happening in Towson, Maryland, the 15,987th most holy site in Islam.

/sarc

143 Darius_LaMonica  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:58:05am

If Baltimore is going to add these holidays, I demand that they allow days off for Diwali - the Hindu festival of lights! (and I am neither from India nor Hindu)

Diwali celebrations are a lot of fun, India is a democracy, India recognizes what is at stake in the war on [Islamonazi] terror, and Indians have added a lot to the USA, so if another holiday should be added, it should be this one. Plus Aishwarya Rai is pretty hot.

If you are unfamiliar with Diwali, this expalins it: [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

144 Anant  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:58:06am

Guys, I've got the perfect solution: We should declare the chunk of the year from November to February to be the federal holiday of Christmahanakwanzaramadanakavali. That'll solve all of our problems!

145 BabbaZee  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:58:45am

Is that Welsh or Slavic? LOL

146 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:59:10am
147 jehu  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:59:51am

I hate this thought, but can't help it. I think the only hope for America is another massive attack on the homeland by these vermin. God, I wish there was another way, but we are playing with the end of civilization. America WAKE UP!

148 Dave the.....  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:01:50am

#133 Joel

What diversity of the season are they talking about?


They put a notice on the intracompany web site listing all the celebrations of that time of year. As a Lutheran-American I found it very insulting that they equate Christmas with about a dozen really obscure events. I'm fine with Hannakuh of course, but some of the rest.....

One of the managers here was told that if he sent cards to the people who report to him, he could not use the word "Christmas" in it.

I wouldn't have stood for that, but some people don't want to jepordize their careers.

149 American Infidel[deleted]  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:03:11am
150 Joel  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:03:24am

#124 urthshu

Pleeeaseeee make it stop....!

Stop crying, and fight your father!

The tradition of Festivus begins with the airing of grievances. I got a lot of problems with you people! And now you're gonna hear

151 Village Idiot's Apprentice  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:03:45am

Looking at the school calendar, they use all kinds of un-P.C. lingo.

I see
Christmas
Easter
Rosh Hashanah.

Since we moved here last year, I have found a lot of closet Republicans in the area.
Most of them were afraid to speak about their beliefs in such a liberal enclave/nest/pit/cesspool, etc.

However, once our Bush yard sign went up for the election, we have all kinds of new friends.

Plus going to and from work in uniform sorta got them all talking.

152 Gagdad Bob  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:04:06am

How about a compromise? Give them as many Muslim holidays here as there are Christian holidays in Saudi Arabia.

153 dhimmishelter  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:04:20am

You know, Bash has a point. We need to recognize the high holy days of Islum when muslimes can take pride of their contributions to the world:

9/11 (which others have recognized already)
3/11 (Madrid train bombings)
9/1-9/3 (a couple of days off for the Beslan school massacre that killed 330 children and teachers, could make for a long weekend if timed correctly)
10/12 (Bali bombings killing 202 mostly Australian tourists and locals)
10/23 (Forty-one members of the ROP calling themselves the Islamic Suicide Squad took more than 800 Moscow theatergoers hostage)
6/10/95 (members of the ROP held more than 2,000 patients and medical personnel hostage and used pregnant women from the maternity ward, as a shield). 120 killed.
9/5 (Munich Olympics massacre)

I could go on, but running out of bandwidth chronicling all of the days in which the school district could recognize the unique and consistent contributions of the ROP to societies around the world.

How about their contributions to Medicine? Industry? Technology? Economics? We could institute holidays for these achievements from the muslimes.

Now if we could just identify any.....

154 Sarah D.  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:04:32am

Hey New Yorkers! The UN is fixin' to stink up more of your space.

UN eyes space in B'klyn, WTC area

The world body is looking for office and conference space while it renovates its landmark East Side headquarters, starting in 2007. Among the sites under consideration is 7 World Trade Center, the high-rise being completed next to Ground Zero.

I say move the UN to Darfur while their renovations are going on.

155 Joel  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:04:58am

148 Dave the.....

I do (to supplement my meager wages) some substitute teaching on my days off. I find it pathetically amusing when I see the books about Kwanzaa they have in teh NY City public schools.

156 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:05:17am

BULLETIN - EAS ACTIVATION REQUESTED
SEVERE THUNDERSTORM WARNING
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE KANSAS CITY/PLEASANT HILL MO
101 PM CDT WED MAY 11 2005

THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN PLEASANT HILL HAS ISSUED A

* SEVERE THUNDERSTORM WARNING FOR...
NORTHERN LEAVENWORTH COUNTY IN NORTHEAST KANSAS

* UNTIL 145 PM CDT

* AT 1257 PM CDT...NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DOPPLER RADAR INDICATED A
SEVERE THUNDERSTORM CAPABLE OF PRODUCING QUARTER SIZE HAIL. THIS
STORM WAS LOCATED NEAR JARBALO...OR 12 MILES EAST OF OSKALOOSA...
AND MOVING EAST AT 15 MPH.

* THE SEVERE THUNDERSTORM WILL BE NEAR...
LANSING BY 135 PM CDT.

THE TOWN OF FT LEAVENWORTH IS ALSO IN THE PATH OF THIS SEVERE
THUNDERSTORM.


If I were running that office (EAX), the residents of Fort Leavenworth would have had an extra four minutes warning.

157 W-lover  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:05:55am

Dave the...

I'm planning an LGF party for us Midwestern Lizards. Whould you like to join us? Email me!

158 Nancy  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:06:40am

But, but, but --as the Muslims themselves are always proclaiming --Islam is NOT just a religion, it is a social-political system.

Treated as a political-social ideology, they are not entitled to any special priveleges because they happen to have a religion that goes with it.

Just saying, they can't have it both ways --claim religious exemptions AND insist they are a social-political ideology entitled to have their own laws and rules of justice.

159 Vickie  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:08:00am

jehu: Thats not gonna work. Heres the direction of how the West actually responds to violence or the threat of violence. Once there is a large Terrorist action, the US actually CAVES. Whole lotta tough talk, but soon after the threat or the action, Islam gets closer to what they want. ie..despite 30 years of promising Jews and most Americans that there would NOT be a SECOND Pal State..after the US Citizen voted for Reps who DIDN'T back a Pal State..whatdoyouknow? there IS going to be a Pal State. It seems Terrorism WORKS..and works well-thank you very much.

Under the Radar the US is reponding to all sorts of demands of Muslims..All of a sudden Hospitals are amending all sorts of policies and proceedures so as to conform to what Islam wants. Its quiet, but it is happening.

160 WriterMom  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:08:09am
161 Renna  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:08:11am

#154 Sarah D

A UN building on the WTC site? Now THAT'S desecration. I'm going to riot.

162 Village Idiot's Apprentice  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:08:28am

#149 AI
Muslim ain't a race, so it's hard to tell.

Now that we are getting specific as to where in Baltimore this is taking place (Towson)I can say "I live in the middle of Towson".

In Towson, there is not a lot of Islamic presence, yet.

163 Bob's Kid  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:09:04am

Our district doesn't close for religious holidays, but students are allowed to miss religious/cultural (like lunar new year) days as excused absences.

I assume staff too, but being a Christian I can't think of any holiday I would want to celebrate that I don't already get off. My Muslim friend gets Friday afternoons off to go to juma, but she has to make up the hours. I assume, anyway.

164 vxbush  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:09:12am

Hey, if we're going to have Talk like a Pirate Day, then we also need to have:

Talk like a Hippie Day
Talk like a Valley Girl Day
Talk like Einstein Day

You know, for equality's sake.

:-)

165 Simple Voice  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:09:19am

#19 jgold

Can someone tell me one thing they have done that is good for American society?

Does Casey Kasem count as "...one thing...good for American society?"?

166 Joel  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:09:34am

160 WriterMom

I am shocked!

167 loppyd  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:09:44am

This crap makes me livid. My niece and nephew aren't allowed to sing CHRISTMAS CAROLS, but the f*cking MUSLIMS are going to get two holidays? And don't fool yourself into thinking they won't. Spineless sally ass school committee will capitulate. Just watch.

WTF is happening to our country?

Sorry for the rant.

168 Joel  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:10:23am

165 Simple Voice

Though he is an Arabist propagandist (like Ralph Nader), Casey Kasem is not a Muslim.

169 American Infidel[deleted]  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:10:40am
170 mglazer  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:10:49am

"After we evacuate the settlers we would have to maintain military forces, security guards and forces to destroy the houses in the middle of enemy territory and there is no assurance that there wouldn't be terror attacks," Mofaz said.

Good reason to leave then huhm?

Sounds like they have no control over the situation - they're weak

Imagine that was the top ranking general of the US forces!?

We live in a suicidally Politicaly correct world in which fear of appearing un-P.C. is the worse thing - that's just plain pathetic

[Link: reuters.myway.com...]

171 Bullshark  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:10:55am

Everyone knows that true Muslims recognize no 'holy days' and have no 'saints'. This is just a ploy by westernized Islamics to curry favor with the west by sharing customs such as 3 day weekends.

172 Joel  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:11:16am

167 loppyd

I have friends who live in Maryland (Rockville and Baltimore), believe me Maryland is as bad as Massachussetts.

173 Spiny Norman  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:12:09am

OT:

Does anyone have any idea what's happened to Tim Blair's blog?

174 Joel  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:12:38am

170 mglazer

Mofaz has turned into an idiot. The PLO has said that they want to destroy those homes yet he thinks that Israel would get bad P.R. by blowing them up.

175 Ben F  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:12:48am

#3 Gordon—

Baltimore City is not in Baltimore County. Don't change the subject.

I attended Baltimore County public schools from first through 12th grade. These particular schools were in the Pikesville "ghetto," and the student body of each was 90% or more Jewish. Never mind the High Holidays; the halls were near-empty during many of the "Yom Tov" days of Succoth, Passover, and Shavouth. Virtually none of the missing pupils were shomer shabbas, but that's another matter. The schools were open on those days, but it was essentially all-day study hall for those (like me) who attended.

It seems to me that concepts of critical mass and comparability come into play here. If the Muslim school population is minuscule, then Muslim holidays should be accommodated in the same way that, say, Hindu holidays are accommodated for believers. No way should special treatment be afforded on Muslim supremacist grounds.

Note that the complaining parties speak of two holidays, which must be the Eids. I infer that they are willing to countenance the school system's failure to mark the holidays of Shi'a Islam.

176 Sarah D.  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:12:58am

Judge Rules DMV Cannot Revoke Driver's Licenses

A judge ruled yesterday that the state Department of Motor Vehicles cannot proceed with a plan to revoke hundreds of thousands of driver's licenses based on immigration status.

.....

In Manhattan, Justice Smith ruled that the state's pending suspension of 252,000 licenses, many of which were gained with fraudulent Social Security numbers, is unlawful. The DMV responded that it intends to appeal, which places a stay on the ruling so that undocumented immigrants cannot renew licenses despite the ruling.

252,000?! Just in Manhattan? Free Americans unite, this crap has gone on for far too long.

177 keepandbear  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:13:01am

The two holiest days of Islam

And how many non muslims died on these days to make them so holy?

178 Renna  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:13:02am

#165 Simple Voice

Although Kasem is Arab, I'm not sure that he is Muslim. His bio says his parents were Druze.

And he also is the voice of Shaggy on Scooby Do. Who knew?

179 vxbush  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:13:37am

#169 AI

See, I have a problem with that; I can't believe that only 1.16% have multiple parentage. It's the problem of being boxed into a particular group.

We've talked here before about our various backgrounds. Keeping track of this stuff is just silly, after a while.

180 American Infidel[deleted]  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:14:04am
181 BPP  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:14:32am
Muslim activists are seething and demanding special treatment.

This reminds me of the standard conservative line in opposition to gay rights, that it is "special" rights.

Sorry, no. Demanding equal treatment is not the same thing as demanding special treatment. The only reason someone would call it special is if they thought the group in question didn't even deserve equal treatment, which seems to be Charles' opinion here. It's just hate, pure and simple. And whether some Muslims hate more is irrelevant.

Judeo-Christian heritage or not, last time I checked there was no established religion in America. If schools accomodate one religion there's not much of a case to be made to refuse to accommodate others as well. The honest solution would be to not have any mention of religion in the calendar at all.

182 BLUESTAR  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:14:41am

Here's a Muslime holiday I celebrate
every year. It's called -

HAPPY NAKBA DAY!

Happy Nakba to all the Paleostinians
and the Arab sub-humans!

183 loppyd  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:14:53am

172 Joel

The Carolinas are starting to look really nice. :D

184 The Christopher  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:15:00am

#34 Joel -My question is "When are those assholes not upset"?

Plenty! Let's see....When Jews and Christian die. When schools hold "pretend you are a Muslim" week. When modern marvels of engineering and human achievement are destroyed. When stupid people convert to Islam. When stupid white liberals defend someone's right to wear a veil on their drivers license.

185 salt1907  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:15:14am

I wonder what the calendar looks like in Detroit, where the newspaper falsely reports that certain terrorists have been deported, terrorist prosecutions are sabotaged by those seeking to curry favor with the muslim community and the muslim community grows by leaps and bounds as we write these posts. The situation is only going to get worse - everywhere.

186 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:15:25am

Wahhhhhhh! Wahhhhhh! Wahhhhhh!

187 thinkingmom  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:15:42am

Can we at least stop importing more troublemakers? No more muslim immmigration! There are limits to the benefits of "diversity."

188 Karl  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:15:53am

I am from Towson.
Here is the demographics I was able to find:

Total population about 52,000

White 45,514 88.9 %
Black or African American 4,089 8.0 %
American Indian and Alaska Native 185 0.4 %
Asian 2,166 4.2 %
Native Hawaiian and Other Islander 30 0.1 %
Some other race 462 0.9 %

189 Nancy  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:15:56am

95 zombie

Good point, their "holy days" are not the same every year and the school calendars are created at least a year in advance.

And, NO school in the US is obliged to use any calendar other than the Gregorian. So, they would never be right anyway.

190 Ward Cleaver  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:16:25am

#146 buzzsawmonkey

After all, how insulting it must be to smell food, and to see/hear other people eating, when you are fasting from sunup to sundown.

Great, thanks for giving them another idea.

191 Vickie  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:16:36am

OH...While this discussion is going on I'm watching my TV where there was a huge Alert, all sorts of Washingtonians in the Cap. and White House running for their lives..until they made sure there wasn't an ISLAMIC Attack on the WHO. Last I heard, Jews and Israel have never attacked or made any plans to attack the US.

192 abolitionist  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:16:44am

There may be a reason it's MARYLAND --it's on the other side of DC from northern Virginia.

I wonder how soon islamists will have enough local influence to intimidate our US Congress. (Not talking votes here.)

And could we cope by relocating Congress? Maybe to Philadelphia (city of brotherly love), or Las Vegas (gambling, niteclubs), or Baton Rouge (mardi gras)?

193 American Infidel[deleted]  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:16:49am
194 vxbush  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:18:29am

#193

So here's a problem: people complain about "racial profiling", and yet we ask about people's racial backgrounds all over the place. Yet I don't see a item in the lists above for "arab." Why is that?

195 Carl B  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:18:45am

#81 frankp_63

Unless of course, your real reason for pushing Muslim holidays is simply to promote Islam.

HA! That's a good one! Surely you don't think. . .

196 Ward Cleaver  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:18:57am

Is "BPP" just another nic for Gordon? A froll/troll?

197 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:19:10am

Bluestar-


The Palestinians are not born subhuman.

They have to be raised that way.


But I agree

¡ Aloha Naqba !

198 Poitiers-Lepanto  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:19:34am

#176 Sarah D.

Your post is evidence that without the subversive left terrorists and invaders wouldn't be able to attack us.

It's not only an invasion, the problem is that powerful forces INSIDE the Western World have planned how to open the doors to the invaders.

And news like that are carefully hidden by the MSM, the general population has NO IDEA of what is actually happening in this Country.

200 Ojoe  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:19:58am

What Hindu holiday is it where they wear white clothes, and then they throw colored water at each other, for instant, on-your-body tie-dye? We should do that one every year.

Plus, Sadie Hawkins Day gets my vote.

201 Ward Cleaver  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:20:04am

#154 Sarah D.

Don't renovate the place, just tear it down and put a dog park on the site.

202 Simple Voice  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:20:08am

#168 Joel


Well, if Casey ain't a Muslim, then I can't think of one good thing.

#178 Renna

I knew he was Shaggy. He also does the voice of Robin, the Boy Wonder, on Superfriends.

203 Haiku  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:20:24am

OT
Another example of Google's anti-semtic news sources. This link is what they have in their world news section where the word Jews is in quotation marks.

[Link: www.profindpages.com...]

204 Nancy  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:20:26am

It could be possible that the Muslims there are primarily Nation of Islam which is NOT recognized by Islam as legtimate.

205 keepandbear  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:21:19am

#146 buzzsawmonkey

After all, how insulting it must be to smell food, and to see/hear other people eating, when you are fasting from sunup to sundown

the purpose of fasting is to show your adhesion to your religion. How does what other people do have any play in it.

When I got baptised I wasn't offended because everyone else in the world didn't climb in with me.

equivalency is equivalent to stupidity

206 USA  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:21:22am

Unless stopped, they plan to soon celebrate Amerabia day.

207 Renna  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:21:33am

#202 Simple Voice

Like, Wow.

208 WriterMom  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:23:15am

#182 Bluestar

I agree with Happy Naqba day, but think calling Arabs sub-human is horrendous. I'm fine with Islamonazi-which I think is accurate, but sub-human is dangerous territory. Just MHO.

209 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:23:18am

This year, more than a few high schools around the country scheduled Prom Night on Passover.

210 Joel  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:23:35am

202 Simple Voice

Paul Anka is also of Arab descent but Lebanese Christian (as is Danny Thomas).

211 BabbaZee  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:26:12am

They are behaviorally sub-human - when it is used regarding the sub-human actions of people, it is legit. When you just decide to yell sub-human at a group of people that is minding it's own business, that's wrong.


They ARE sub-human [bigoted word]s... by their own words and deeds.

212 Bob's Kid  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:26:32am
Good point, their "holy days" are not the same every year and the school calendars are created at least a year in advance.

More importantly, the same holiday might be held on a different day depending on the country of origin of the Muslim. In our school, the Pakistani kids (for example) start Ramadan a day earlier than most of the Muslims do because some imam there says it starts on that day. Others start a day later, and celebrate Eid on a different day, too.

213 Joel  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:26:37am

#184 The Christopher

Yeah when infidel blood is shed they like to ullululate

183 loppyd

Yeah "Carolina Girl" has me convinced that my next stop (in my literal "Wandering Jew" phase) ought to be the Carolinas. Hope to see you there some day.

214 USA  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:27:28am

Aramerica?
Amerabia?
United Arab Americas?


Wake up America.

215 Vickie  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:27:30am

BenF: Here and there in the US there are A FEW small Jewish Communities that impact the school system. It ISN'T that those guys take off the OTHER Holidays that we have, it is if the absences are Excused or Unexcused.

While we are at it..there are Jewish Teachers who need to be with THEIR Moms and Dads and Husbands or Wives and Children for our couple of (ONLY TWO) Holidays.

We didn't Demand..we finally asked after about Four Hundred Years in the US.

This IS what is going to happen in in the US in about 20 years. Islamic Citizens are gonna demand that the US NOT shut down on Dec. 25. They will refuse to close their businesses..their banks..they will demand to use the US Post Office..Its already happening unofficially..Islamic Citizens don't stop their lives for Christmas. Jews DO ..out of respect..but not Islam.

216 BLUESTAR  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:27:56am

FYI...

Casey Kasem = Kaseem Kaseem

Happy Nakba Casey, and Happy Nakba to all
my friends in Detroit, Paterson, N.J.,
and Atlantic Avenue in Brooklyn.

May you remember it like it was yesterday!

217 Darwin Akbar  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:28:17am

Don't forget that in 2003 (I believe), the head of some Muslim agency in Michigan (where there is a large Muslim population) contacted the local school board to demand Ramadan as a school holiday while threatening "unhealthy consequences" if his demands were ignored.

When the school chancellor rightly perceived this as a threat and called the police, we were subjected to the usual response:

1. I didn't say what you said I said, even though what you said I said was an exact quote from my letter;

2. If I did say what you said I said, my words were taken out of context;

3. By accusing me of saying that my words (which I may or may not have said) mean what they mean in plain English, you are guilty of Islamophobia; and therefore:

4. I am the victim here and am being denied my civil rights.

We can expect this pattern to appear in Maryland as well.
And the reason my school district in upstate NY started closing on Jewish holidays was to accomodate the faculty more than the students.

218 Joel  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:28:42am

216 BLUESTAR

And may the Moooslims have more Nakbas in their futures!

219 christheprofessor  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:28:56am

Joel, loppyd

The Carolinas are mighty nice...

220 loppyd  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:29:50am

213 Joel

One fine day, my friend...one fine day.

221 NuclearTinkerbell  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:30:42am

If they get their holidays, how long before they demand the schools provide the Muslim students with not only a prayer room, but separate bathrooms (like at the DoD)?

222 christheprofessor  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:31:08am

#215 Vickie

We didn't Demand..we finally asked after about Four Hundred Years in the US.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but the US has only been around since 1776 (not quite 229 years)...

But, I know what you are saying and agree...

:)

223 USA  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:31:09am

What happened to the private Texas athletic conference that questioned why the Moslem school wanted to participate with a Christians? I read about it here several months ago.

224 loppyd  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:32:22am

219 christheprofessor

I looove the Carolinas.

Do you live down there? I've been to Charleston a few times, Kiawah Islanf, Myrtle Beach, Pawley's Island....

My cousin lives in New Bern, NC.

225 Nancy  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:32:47am

They are NOT prevented from getting excused absences for any religious holiday and some of the districts in that area even offer them 2 "floating" days for Ramadan.

The complaint is that they are not SPECIFICALLY listed a designated holidays on the school calendar.

October 15, 2004
By Jon Ward
THE WASHINGTON TIMES: Area Muslim students will be able to take two excused absences during Ramadan to observe the monthlong Islamic holiday of fasting and feasting that begins today, though local school systems do not consider the days official holidays.
Muslim students can miss two days during Ramadan: Lailat al-Qadr, the "Night of Power," which happens during the final 10 days of the month, and Eid al-Fitr, the day that breaks the fast, which also is a day of celebration for Muslim families and communities.

The other area systems do not specifically address Ramadan, but most will grant students excused absences for recognized religious holidays, even if they aren't on the official school calendar. [Link: washingtontimes.com...]

226 loppyd  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:33:18am

221 NuclearTinkerbell

They have separate bathrooms at the DoD?
Why?

227 christheprofessor  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:33:48am

loppyd

I was just about 50 miles from New Bern yesterday. Beautiful part of the country... Grew up near Myrtle Beach (but in NC)...

228 j-damn  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:34:25am
Like that town in Wisconsin that went and allowed the throat-slitters to have their little call of pray to Satan blaring out of loudspeakers 5 times a day.

Jehu, I curse your mustache and issue a fatwa on you! All good people know that Michigan was the dhimmi state that allowed such blasphemy.

NO CHEESE FOR YOU.

229 Village Idiot's Apprentice  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:35:08am

A.I.
I didn't realize until further into all the discussion, that the talk was focusing on Towson. Hence my remark on getting into the specifics of location. I didn't want you to think I was getting snarky on you.

As an aside, if anyone is trying to research the ethnic breakdown here, remember that Baltimore City is NOT a part of, or included in Baltimore county stats.

The news last night stated that the county does not recognize any religious holidays. However, on the dates that have a historic high absentee rate (i.e. 25 December) than they make it a holiday.

230 SwampWoman  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:35:33am
Baltimore County superintendent Joe Hairston said tonight that school officials have to look at a much broader view than just one community, and be sensitive to three-quarters of a million people.

Whatever. So long as "Talk like a Pirate Day" and "Cinco de Mayo" day is on there too (Okay, Cinco de Mayo is the official day to laugh at the French, drink beer, and eat fajitas. What's not to like about that?)

I'm a little pissed that my birthday isn't listed as a high holy day because it should be.

Can we have a national "Saddam Memorial ass-kicking day", or "Taliban Bites the Big One" day, or Moammar Fashion Show Day?

231 Bob's Kid  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:36:17am

Michigan, Wisconsin...what's the difference, really?

(ducks and hides)

232 NY Nana  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:36:45am

#230 Swamp Woman

Please check you email.

233 keepandbear  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:38:50am

loppyD

Because they keep jihading in the floor?

234 Nancy  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:39:13am

Gosh, where I am living now --the opening day of hunting season is a school holiday!

235 Village Idiot's Apprentice  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:40:36am

Swamp Woman

I'm a little pissed that my birthday isn't listed as a high holy day because it should be.

So many of the ancient events in our planets history have been forgotten or cast aside.

(ducks for cover)

236 RebTex  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:42:43am

Hey!
I've got a GREAT idea!
If they don't like the rules & ways of our culture.....
GO THE F*** HOME!
It's very sickening to constantly hear these oil ticks complain about being "harrassed & descriminated against".
Case in point...
How are Christians treated in the world's biggest sandbox?!

237 Nancy  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:43:33am

230 SwampWoman

I spent my childhood thinking my birthday WAS a holiday --New Year's Eve.

238 Vickie  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:43:55am

cris: You know that I wasn't talking about the OFFICIAL US..but when Jews arrived on these particular shores. I was trying to compare and contrast how Jews handled the situation of living in a society where we are outnumbered or not the majority. We went along with the Majority until we realized that OTHERS were Demanding all sorts of separate treatment. FINALLY we decided to ask for..not demand..excused absences from school for our children on THREE lousy days. Depending on the States or Counties (I'm not sure about Counties) we finally FINALLY were allowed usually TWO Days.

Look at the diff of how Jews handled this "problem" for us and how Islam is handling this situation. These are our HIGH HOLY DAYS..and very solemn and very important. Jews are a FAMILY centered Group and on these days it is unheard of to NOT be with your family.

I think the US will institute "Floating Religious Days"...that will be a way the US will handle it while taking the pressure OFF Islam. G-d Forbid US Citizens actually know that ISlam has so much power in the US.

239 W-lover  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:44:56am

Lopps- are you still in here?

240 Joel  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:45:58am

230 SwampWoman

I celebrated Cinco de Mayo last week at a bar in NYC. It aws a grand time! Too bad theFrench Ambassador to the UN did not show up.

241 christheprofessor  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:46:58am

#238 Vickie

I know, I was just pulling your chain (hence the smiley face!). I believe Jews have been a tremendous boon to the US and to the world with with their contributions (e.g., medicine, science, etc).

Sorry if I offended, didn't mean to...

242 Joel  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:48:55am

219 christheprofessor
220 loppyd

I've been a Carolinas fan ever since I was a little boy and my hero was Francis Marion aka "The Swamp Fox". I always wanted to visit the Revolutionary War sites in teh Carolinas. I drove pased Cowpens, Kings Mountain and Guilford Court House, once but my travelling mate was in a hurry and I did not stop for a visit. That was a mistake.

243 keepandbear  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:49:39am

chris

the Joos just stole those ideas from the ayrabs

244 Joel  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:53:58am

238 Vickie

Back in the 1930's when Jews were banned from may resorts and country clubs, they created the Catskills Borscht Belt. When many medical schools had strict quotas on Jews, Jews founded their own hospitals. That is why you have a place such as St. Louis Jewish Hospital (how many Jews in St. Looy anyway?). When many of the Ivy League Universities had quotas limiting the number of Jews, the Jewish people of NY City went to City College ("the Jewish Harvard" and Brooklyn College)and those colleges had an ewxcellent scholastic reputation because of that. The Jews helped make Hollywood and many other industries. There was no affirmative action or special treatment for our forbears.

245 Vickie  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:54:34am

Cris: Its OK. I'm just sitting here in my GORGEOUS (so pretty here this time of year) DC area watching whats going on today..and totally disgusted. I see that despite all sorts of tough talk by US Citizens and US Officials..the MORE Islam threatens the US, the more the US actually CAVES. Can you just imagine what would have happened to Jews if Israel and Jews launched a 30 year Terrorist threat against the US? What would have been the response?

Geeze....

246 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:54:45am
247 WriterMom  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:56:49am

#244 Joel

We da best! Gotta love us! :)

248 Vickie  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:59:15am

Joel: Thats JUST how we handeled the situations. It was handled that way almost everywhere in the US. ie Dont want us? We will do the best we can using what we can..

There are people that DONT KNOW that we didnt handle our minorty status like others did. We STLL dont. Others USE us sometimes (as a wedge group) but usually it is without our groups permssion.

249 RebTex  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:02:35am

Vickie
That's a good point.
I don't think I've EVER seen the minority group "Jewish" on any type of application to anything.

250 WriterMom  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:02:40am

#248 Vickie

That's one of the very coolest things about living in Israel-being the majority.

251 loppyd  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:07:11am

227 christheprofessor

Near Wilmington? Stopped there from lunch on the way to Myrtle Beach last year. Looked like a funky town!

252 Joel  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:07:45am

248 Vickie

There was no Jewish ritos in America that's for sure. Unfortunately our passivity in face of the intransigence of the State Department in not implementing rescue efforts for Euroepan Jews in the 1930's cost so many lives.

253 NuclearTinkerbell  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:07:48am

loppyd

According to the book, Infiltration, the need for Arabic translators became so important after 9-11, that the US government hired basically anyone who could pass a cursory security screening.

The Jews that applied for the positions were dismissed due to the protestations of some Muslim supervisors, who found working with Jews to be too offensive for the new bunch of translators (who were hired prior to passing background investigations).

This same bunch demanded special washing facilities to perform their clean-up ritual prior to prayer. They "felt funny" washing their feet in the sinks of the infidels' bathrooms and requested (and were granted) separate, specially designed bathrooms to perform da'wa (or whatever) and no longer have to complain about sharing the facilities with kuffers. (Kooties, I guess.)

254 christheprofessor  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:08:53am

loppyd

yeah...

255 Joel  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:09:40am

247 WriterMom

My only fault with American Jews is that they still are addicted (most of them anyway) to political liberalism. FDR is dead (and he was never our firend anyway).

256 bouzouki  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:10:29am

Birds gotta fly.
Fish gotta swim.
Moslems gotta seethe.

Talk Like a Pirate Day

257 abu_garcia  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:11:47am

#149 AI

Having lived there a few years back, I would say that most Baltimore Muslims are Nation of Islam (African-American).

258 SwampWoman  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:12:44am

#242 Joel

I've been a Carolinas fan ever since I was a little boy and my hero was Francis Marion aka "The Swamp Fox". I always wanted to visit the Revolutionary War sites in teh Carolinas. I drove pased Cowpens, Kings Mountain and Guilford Court House, once but my travelling mate was in a hurry and I did not stop for a visit. That was a mistake.

Heh. Husband had an ancestor ridin' (or is that wadin') with Francis Marion. He has a really long term history of bein' part of the rowdy rabble.

259 Joel  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:13:13am

253 NuclearTinkerbell

many Sephardic Jews livng in the US and Israelis who live in America, speak Arabic but they refused to use them.

260 BLUESTAR  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:13:15am

We (yehudis) worked hard for, and earned our place in American society. I'll fight any [bigoted word]ed throatslitter that tries to change, defame or destroy this great country. You don't like it here? Take your bedsheets and your warped philosophy and go back to your sociopathic sandbox.

Nakba Akbar!

261 Dave the.....  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:14:13am
Michigan, Wisconsin...what's the difference, really?


Ann Arbor, Madison. Same thing. But I'll take Milwaukee over Detroit any day.

262 Joel  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:14:27am

258 SwampWoman

Of course there was the Walt Disney series "Swamp Fox" with Leslie Nielsen playing Francis Marion. The Mel Gibson movie based on Marion "The Patriot" I thought was a historically inaccurate disaster.

263 SwampWoman  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:14:37am

#235 Village Idiot's Apprentice

So many of the ancient events in our planets history have been forgotten or cast aside.

(ducks for cover)

If I wasn't feelin' all happy and mellow, I'd have to hunt you down and hurt you real bad.

264 bouzouki  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:15:14am

If anyone could possibly be interested:

Pirate Duck

265 SwampWoman  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:16:36am

#262 Joel

Of course there was the Walt Disney series "Swamp Fox" with Leslie Nielsen playing Francis Marion. The Mel Gibson movie based on Marion "The Patriot" I thought was a historically inaccurate disaster

But he looked damn good bein' all historically inaccurate, didn't he?

266 loppyd  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:18:02am

Joel

I've always wanted to go on a tour of the famous battles from the Civil War. Like
Sherman's march to the sea...

267 christheprofessor  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:20:57am

loppyd

Actually, south of Wilmington...

268 NuclearTinkerbell  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:21:01am

#259 Joel

many Sephardic Jews livng in the US and Israelis who live in America, speak Arabic but they refused to use them.

Does that make any sense to anyone? Why would you hire the frickin' enemy to translate important things, when you could hire equally competent translators who are motivated to actually fight terror?

*Shakes head*

269 Moor_slayer  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:22:51am

Get used to it fu_ckos. Jesus is the real Messiah. Moses was an actual prophet. Mohammed is a goat-fuc_king child molester.

270 D.C. Law  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:24:12am

Was listening on WMAL yesterday to the bozo who is complaining. The talk show host, who is no friend of Israel or the Jews, said he thought the complainers' real motive was to make sure that Moslims get at least as much as the Jews do, and that this was an example of MidEast politics in action.

FYI - one major reason school districts historically have closed on Jewish high holidays is because so many teachers are out, and there are not enough subs.

Also, the reason that many districts close for one day, and not two, is because Reform Jews only celebrate one day, and are back at work.

271 LemonJoose  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:24:30am

I know a lot of you won't like me saying so, but unless the majority of teacher/students in that school district are Jewish, I would object to them giving Yom Kippur as an offcial school holiday. This is why schools around the country are bending over backwards to eliminate anything Christian. Every other Tom, Dick or Harry religion comes along and demands equal treatment, even if there is only one kid or one teacher in the whole district.

We would save ourselves a lot of headaches if we would just declare the oficial national religion to be Christianity and the official national language to be English. We're not going to discriminate against you if you have a different religion or language, but don't expect the 90% majority to bend over and kiss your 10% (or 1%) minority butt. Get used to the fact that Christian holidays are celebrated, and get used to the fact that to get around in society you better learn English.

272 loppyd  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:26:10am

christheprofessor

Ah. Well, it's all good as far as I'm concerned.

Now if only I could hear your drawl...

273 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:29:54am

Tornado just north of Kansas City.

EAX WSR-88D Loop

274 christheprofessor  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:31:02am

loppyd

if you want to enable you're nic for e-mail, i'll send you more (my e-mail account all have my name, ergo, don't want to enable mine).... i should set up a cryptic yahoo account...

275 keepandbear  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:31:54am

Joel for the record

Lots of Jews in St. Louis

I went to a school in the county that was about one-third each Jewish, Catholic, Protestant

276 Joel  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:33:11am

268 NuclearTinkerbell

It amkes as much sense as that idiot Congressman from Hawaii and Pennsylvania saying that our troops in Iraq should not use Israeli made bullets (which are cheaper to purchase then anywhere else in teh world including the USA) 'cause we do not want to offend the senisibilties of our jihadi enemis in Iraq.

Army Told Not to Use Israeli Bullets in Iraq

277 christheprofessor  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:33:38am

#275 keepandbear

I went to a school in the county that was about one-third each Jewish, Catholic, Protestant

Hmmmm. That would be 100% infidel...

278 LemonJoose  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:34:23am

#253 NuclearTinkerbell:

I wonder if a buch of White southerners who complained about having to use the same facilities as Black people could get their own separate, specially-constructed facilitites.

Oh, yeah, we did away with Jim Crow back in the 1960's.

These Muslim elitists must think their sh*t smells like petunias compared to the rest of us dhimmis.

279 Joel  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:34:23am

275 keepandbear

Lots of Jews in St. Louis

You could have knocked me over with a feather!

280 Joel  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:37:41am

266 loppyd

I've done all the major (and smoe lesser known) battle field (Civil War) sites in Virginia, Pennsylvania and Maryland. One day I want to go to Tennessee, Georgia And Mississippi to see the Western battlefields. I have not visited Appomattox though. My favorite Battlefield is Chancellorsville which is 10 miles east of Fredricksburg Virginia.

281 Joel  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:39:05am

265 SwampWoman

I don't normally notice guys but women I know and trust have asserted that Gibson is good looking. My co-workers son played an extra in the movie. he had a non speaking part and played a character who Gibson shot during the ambush scene.

282 WriterMom  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:39:08am

#255 Joel

The idjit Canadian Joos are the same, voting Liberal still. I can't take it!

283 SwampWoman  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:39:30am

#272 LoppyD

Now if only I could hear your drawl...

Oh, hon, those Carolinians have some extra devastatin' drawls. Yummy!

(Husband was born up yonder.)

(Chris, you better be practicin' now that I've set you up like this. She has really high expectations now. )

284 Joel  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:42:14am

266 loppyd

On one of my Boston visits a friend and I tooka train out to Concord to see teh famous bridge and site of teh first batle of the Revolution. It was freezing that day but I enjoyed going there immensely. The day before of course we did the Freedom Trail walk and ended at Bunker Hill.

285 christheprofessor  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:42:55am

#283 Swampy

I can through out "reckons," "y'alls,", and "fixin' to's" witht the best of 'em....

286 Gabba Gabba Hey  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:43:00am

Lo but I am sick and tired of Muslims.

287 Joel  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:44:39am

282 WriterMom

Gratitude to a friend unfortunately is not much of a Jewish tradition, otherwise Ronald Reagan in 1984 and George W. Bush would have both received a higher percentage of the Jewish vote then they did. At times I think that American (at least NY) Jews would vote democratic even if Mahmoud Abbas and Jacques chirac headed the Democratic ticket. Sorry that Canadian Jewry can be as clueless as American Jewry.

288 christheprofessor  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:50:17am

Did anybody else just get an error trying to refresh?

289 Joel  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:51:35am

288 christheprofessor

I got booted out before.

290 Gabba Gabba Hey  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:52:15am

I got a parse error.

291 christheprofessor  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:53:25am

joel, gabba gabba

yeah, i got a parse error also....

292 Gabba Gabba Hey  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:56:06am

Okay, who gave us a kick in the parse?

293 Joel  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:56:49am

283 SwampWoman

My favorite North Carolinian (actually he was born in South Carolina) was a Confederate General named James Johnston Pettigrew who was in temproary command of a division at Gettysburg and led part of the misnamed Pickett's Charge. (there were two other divisions involved in the charge). He was mortally wounded during the retreat from Gettysburg. On day one of the battle, his North Carolina Brigade ahd a memorable slugfest with the famous Iron Brigade of the Army of the Potomac in McPherson's Woods. James Johnston Pettigrew

294 christheprofessor  Wed, May 11, 2005 10:59:15am

That parse-snipped my connection...

(gabba, if you can do it, so can I!)...

:)

295 Vickie  Wed, May 11, 2005 11:02:18am

Reb Tex: Right...we disincluded (is that a word?) ourselves in the "minority status" in lots of areas. Almost all. People dont know that fact. NO Affirmative Action for us. And we are a WORLD WIDE TRUE MINORITY Group. Others are just a so called "minority" in America.

Now that we have instant communication world wide..we need to look at the DEFINITION of WHO is a MINORITY and who ISN'T Really. If you are a member of a group of a BILLION people and have almost exclusive rights over 23 Countries..you are most definately NOT any kind of Minority!

Its about the WORLD WIDE POWER..and WORLD WIDE #S that should define what a True Minority is.

296 Ol' Southern Boy  Wed, May 11, 2005 11:04:55am

I recommend a counter-proposal: we mark the anniversary of the Liberation of Baghdad as one of the two Muslim holidays!

297 christheprofessor  Wed, May 11, 2005 11:06:23am

#293 Joel

How about this North Carolinian (from Belhaven) -- Jacklyn Harold Lucas

His Medal of Honor citation:

For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty while serving with the 1st Battalion, 26th Marines, 5th Marine Division, during action against enemy Japanese forces on Iwo Jima, Volcano Islands, 20 February 1945. While creeping through a treacherous, twisting ravine which ran in close proximity to a fluid and uncertain frontline on D-plus-1 day, Pfc. Lucas and 3 other men were suddenly ambushed by a hostile patrol which savagely attacked with rifle fire and grenades. Quick to act when the lives of the small group were endangered by 2 grenades which landed directly in front of them, Pfc. Lucas unhesitatingly hurled himself over his comrades upon 1 grenade and pulled the other under him, absorbing the whole blasting forces of the explosions in his own body in order to shield his companions from the concussion and murderous flying fragments. By his inspiring action and valiant spirit of self-sacrifice, he not only protected his comrades from certain injury or possible death but also enabled them to rout the Japanese patrol and continue the advance. His exceptionally courageous initiative and loyalty reflect the highest credit upon Pfc. Lucas and the U.S. Naval Service.


btw, he survived.

298 Joel  Wed, May 11, 2005 11:07:43am

297 christheprofessor

A real man!

299 Gabba Gabba Hey  Wed, May 11, 2005 11:08:22am

294 christheprofessor

Ouch! :)

300 Vickie  Wed, May 11, 2005 11:10:31am

DC Law: If that type of "scenario" is going to happen in America, ie EVERYTHING in Every Area that Jews do is measured against what Muslims here do..If there is this **unofficial QUOTAS and no MERIT System in American life...then it is time for Jews to leave the US. We are 1% but WORK and CONTRIBUTE in a HUGE percentage.. IE only 1% of us should be hired in a business? only 1% of us should be let into the schools we quality for? and so on? Sorry..we cant live like that. Its UNAMERICAN ANYWAY.

301 Mike Nargizian  Wed, May 11, 2005 11:11:35am

I doubt they close for the Jewish holidays in South Dakota? But in Maryland there's a large Jewish population. And why aren't the Hindus complaining that school isn't closed for their holidays.

Btw, do they close for Jewish holidays in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Morocco, Turkey or Iran?
or how about for Christmas there?

I would bet there are more Hindus in this country than Muslims. Why don't we hear Hindu "groups" complaining about 'descrimination'?

I also noted that they mention the Jewish holiday first for whatever that's worth. If there's ever been a case of the envious hateful little brother syndrom its the Muslim 'activist' groups in this country.

Mike

302 Vickie  Wed, May 11, 2005 11:22:54am

For the purposes of this one discussion, I only included Muslims and how they differed from Jews in gaining days off. But OF COURSE we have many different Major Religions represented here in the US..Hindus and more. They also deserve to celebrate their most impt Holidays as well. American has changed peeps. There are MANY ALPHA Religions represented in the US now. Alpha means..whole lotta people, with control over a whole lotta land mass with definite POWER.

303 Gordon  Wed, May 11, 2005 11:26:26am

This whole flap shows the problem with entangling church and state, and it's why we have the establishment clause of the First Amendment. James Madison and the gang saw this coming.

304 helox  Wed, May 11, 2005 11:30:04am

#194

why is there no classification for Arab you ask? B/c they are classified as White by the United States. Why? B/c of a Supreme court case way back. It starts off like a joke and the decision today would seem to us like a joke. An Arab man, Japanese man and Indian man petitioned to the Supreme Court that they were "White". At that time, of course things were only separated into white and black. Obviously none of these guys wanted to be stuck in the "black" category. The Supreme Court in all its "wisdom" held that the Arab was "white", but the Indian man and Japanese man were "black".

305 christheprofessor  Wed, May 11, 2005 11:30:37am

#3, #303 Gordon

What, do you post every 300 posts?

:)

306 Vickie  Wed, May 11, 2005 11:39:14am

Gorden is one that gloms onto divisions and tries to USE Jews and USE Jewish issues to gain "points" for his side. He uses our legit. issues as "wedge" issues. Gorden couldn't give a flying F**K about Jewish problems and issues. I don't like to be USED. WE don't like to be used. Jews are aware when this happens..to keep the record straight.

307 Moor_slayer  Wed, May 11, 2005 11:45:06am
282 WriterMom


Very true that jews don't show true allegiance to their allies. I said this before and got jumped on. George W. Bush has been a friend to the Israelis the likes of which no president has been before. And he got less than 30% of their vote. Loyalty is one quality they lack. Perhaps some of the cause of anti-semitism from people who have no reason whatsoever to dislike them.

308 jehu  Wed, May 11, 2005 11:55:08am

Gordon

i This whole flap shows the problem with entangling church and state, and it's why we have the establishment clause of the First Amendment. James Madison and the gang saw this coming.

Sure, they saw throat-slitting wife-beaters being let into the country parading under a fake religion.

I wonder if they also saw that secular humanists would hijack the media and education and then would cram their religion down everyone's throat, course we all know (wink, wink) that secular humanism is NOT a religion.

309 Bob's Kid  Wed, May 11, 2005 11:56:24am
I've done all the major (and smoe lesser known) battle fields

My mom, God rest her soul, told all of her grandkids that when they graduated from HS she would take them for a month wherever she could drive. All 4 of my kids took her up on it, and you know what? They all wanted to see Civil War and Revolutionary War (the rebellion) sites, DC, etc. I was stinkin' proud of them, let me tell ya.

Of course, there's nothing quite like that here in CA because it is too young, but for a group of young people to want to do historical stuff rather than the kinds of things teenagers usually like made me a happy mom.

My mom is gone nearly a year now, but my kids had a special relationship with her that her other grandkids didn't have, and they really appreciate that. So do I.

310 christheprofessor  Wed, May 11, 2005 12:04:42pm

#309 Bob's Kid

Sounds like you, like I, were blessed with a wonderful Mother. I'm sorry for your loss.

311 StarsandStripes  Wed, May 11, 2005 12:06:50pm

Way to go Baltimore County superintendent Joe Hairston!

312 ktindavie  Wed, May 11, 2005 12:09:10pm

CHRISTMAS is the reason we have this "winter' holiday. And EASTER is the reason we have the 'spring' break!

The USA is a Judeo-Chrsitian country.... nothing will ever change that! Go back to your 3rd word cesspools if you want muslim holidays on the calendar!

313 BenZacharia  Wed, May 11, 2005 12:18:31pm

A MODEST PROPOSAL:

Allow (taken as personal, vacation or unpaid) the taking of ALL HOLY days, on the condition that your MAIN book of scripture says something to the effect of...

"Thus sayeth your G-D (fill in the blank)this day is a HOLY DAY do no regular work, do this and that, eat this or don't eat at all, etc. etc."

Any takers?

314 IWuvLGF  Wed, May 11, 2005 12:23:41pm

#3

Not Baltimore City, Baltimore County -- they are separate entities. And yes, there are way more Jews than Muslims going to public schools here.

315 Joel  Wed, May 11, 2005 12:35:42pm

307 Moor_Slayer

Taht is because for many American Jews liberalism is their religion. Judaism is their ethnicity.

316 Joseph  Wed, May 11, 2005 12:38:56pm

As much as I hate school, if I was a student in MD and Muslim 'holy' days were given off, I'd still show up just to show my disdain.

317 Gordon  Wed, May 11, 2005 12:53:39pm

#307 Moor Slayer:

If only 30% of Jews voted for George Bush, perhaps it means that most Jews aren't as idiotic as the ones that apparently visit this site! Perhaps because most American Jews put the "American" before the "Jew." when it comes to politics.

And then there is the fact that there are as many anti-semites and anti-Israel types in the Republican party as there are in the Democratic party. For every DU nutcase there's a Grover Norquist.

318 Gordon  Wed, May 11, 2005 12:56:22pm

#312 ktindavie - meet James Madison and Thomas Jefferson, numbnuts.

And if you want a Christian state, go to Great Britain and your taxes will go toward paying the Archbishop of Canterbury's salary.

We don't want your kind running this country. Never have. Never will.

319 rightasrain  Wed, May 11, 2005 1:01:10pm

#317 Gordon

If only 30% of Jews voted for George Bush, perhaps it means that most Jews aren't as idiotic as the ones that apparently visit this site! Perhaps because most American Jews put the "American" before the "Jew." when it comes to politics.

So you're saying that Jews who care most deeply about being Jewish tend to vote for Republicans.

You could very well be right on this.

Now you need to ask yourself why.

320 rightasrain  Wed, May 11, 2005 1:02:06pm

Orthodox Jews voted for Bush in 2004 at the rate of 80%, by the way.

Smart folks!

321 rightasrain  Wed, May 11, 2005 1:05:18pm

#318 Gordon

#312 ktindavie - meet James Madison and Thomas Jefferson, numbnuts.

Thomas Jefferson was the first American President to wage war against JIHAD.

What a wonderful war hawk he was - he kicked Islamist Jihad butt bigtime!

He had the chance to negotiate with them instead of just kicking their asses, but he saw that there was no point in negotiating with them.

So Jefferson went to war against them instead.

Good for him!

322 rightasrain  Wed, May 11, 2005 1:05:44pm

We should celebrate Jefferson's war against Jihad every single year.

323 kansas  Wed, May 11, 2005 1:05:52pm

Holy days, holy cities, holy sh**.

324 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, May 11, 2005 1:16:45pm
325 sebastepol  Wed, May 11, 2005 1:17:05pm

#94

Yes, without doubt those Oxford educated "Brits" are not to be countenanced. After all, what have the English ever contributed?

326 Absoludicrious  Wed, May 11, 2005 1:17:09pm

Wowie zowie. Are you people seriously claiming that treating American Muslims like second-class citizens is okay because governments in the Muslim world mistreat their non-Muslim denizens?

Hey, I hear Robert Mugabe is mistreating some white farmers. Are we back to Jim Crow now, LGFers? Since you people apparently believe in collective guilt and all...

Back in the reality-based community, it seems pretty clear that Islam is a large enough religion to merit mention of its major holidays on the school calendar. It's simply impractical to do otherwise if a significant portion of the student body is going to be absent on one day or another. Here in south Louisiana we close the schools for Mardi Gras. OMG EVIL FRENCH CATHOLICS DEMANDING SPECIAL TREATMENT!

327 rightasrain  Wed, May 11, 2005 1:26:02pm

Theory:

Gordon, Absoludicrious and Oct O'Pie are the same guy.

328 Absoludicrious  Wed, May 11, 2005 1:29:17pm

What a wonderful war hawk he was - he kicked Islamist Jihad butt bigtime!

Um... Earth to rightasrain, this is History Control calling...

Islamism had nothing whatsoever to do with the piracy of the North African pashas. Piracy did. I hear G. Iulius Caesar crucified a whole passel of pirates back in the day; was he kicking Pagan Blood-Sacrifice butt? Hell, even so ardent a hawk as Max Boot knows the score here. From The Savage Wars of Peace, p. 8:

"It is tempting to compare the Barbary states to modern Islamist states that preach and practice jihad against infidel unbelievers. It is a temptation that must be resisted. The rulers of the Ottoman Empire and its North African tributaries were not particularly xenophobic nor especially fundamentalist. By the standards of the day, they were uncommonly cosmopolitan and tolerant in many respects, offering more protection than did many European states to flourishing Jewish communities that played a prominent role in their commercial affairs. Ali Karamanli, pasha of Tripoli from 1754 to 1795, was even said to have been much influenced by his Jewish mistress, a corpulent woman known as 'Queen Esther.'

"It is also tempting to speak of the Barbary 'pirates,' as contemporary Europeans and Americans did, but in reality the corsairs of North Africa were no more - and no less - piratical than Sir Francis Drake or Sir John Hawkins, two of the more illustrious figures in English naval history, both of whom operated as privateers, using authority given them by letters of marque to seize enemy shipping. Americans also resorted to privateers to harass their foes; the U.S. Government was so attached to this practice that it refused to sign the 1856 Declaration of Paris outlawing privateering as a weapon of war. As in the American and British navies, the Barbary rulers gave captains and crew a portion of the 'prize money' captured by their ships. The difference is that in Europe or America the legally sanctioned capture of enemy merchantmen typically served some larger state purpose; it was not an end to itself, as it became for the Ottoman regencies."

Of course, Max Boot's one of those damned educated folk with all that book-learnin'! He may write for the Weekly Standard, but he uses big words so he must be a Dhimmi!

329 rightymouse  Wed, May 11, 2005 1:32:19pm

#327 rightasrain

We decided on a different thread that nodrog was actually Octopussy in drag.

Never seen Absoludicrous post before, but let's add him/her/it and Karmicommunist to the pile of troll invertebrates, who, for, whatever reason like it here.

330 rightasrain  Wed, May 11, 2005 1:34:22pm

#328 Absoludicrious

Islamism had nothing whatsoever to do with the piracy of the North African pashas. Piracy did.

You mean like 'YO HO HO and a bottle of rum?"

Wrong. They were normal Muslims who didn't drink but who DID pray towards Mecca five times per day.

The Barbary Pirates were JIHADISTS.

They were Muslims who attacked and robbed innocent non-Muslim cargo and passenger ships (rather than war ships) because they were infidels.

You don't want to go down this road.

There is way too much proof that they were just ordinary Muslims who made their livings attacking non-Muslims.

331 rightasrain  Wed, May 11, 2005 1:35:59pm

#329 rightymouse

We decided on a different thread that nodrog was actually Octopussy in drag.

Never seen Absoludicrous post before, but let's add him/her/it and Karmicommunist to the pile of troll invertebrates, who, for, whatever reason like it here.

Yes, let's do.

Absoludicrious is so bad that even Charles gets into it when we're fighting this one off. :-)

332 rightymouse  Wed, May 11, 2005 1:44:39pm

#331 rightasrain

"Absoludicrious is so bad that even Charles gets into it when we're fighting this one off. :-)"

Heh.

They should at least be grateful that their postings don't generally get deleted like they would be at the DU when a right-brain person posts there.

Still amazes me that like it here, though. Bet they hover over at NRO, Instapundit, Michelle Malkin, Roger Simon, etc. too.

333 rightasrain  Wed, May 11, 2005 1:52:15pm

#332 rightymouse

They should at least be grateful that their postings don't generally get deleted like they would be at the DU when a right-brain person posts there.

One of those moonbat sites that trashes LGF claims that Charles deletes ALL leftwing comments within a few minutes.

It's blatantly false, of course, but this belief probably keeps LGF from having more of these lunatics here than we do now. :/

334 goodbye_natalie  Wed, May 11, 2005 2:05:56pm

I believe we need to designate each Friday as "Porkchop" day for the Muslims with Gecko Gordon as head chef.

335 NY Nana  Wed, May 11, 2005 2:37:55pm

We live in a village in lower Westchester County, NY, and have a unified school district: The Town of Mamaroneck, which incorporates Mamaroneck and Larchmont. NY has a lot of 'Towns' like this, and it drives us nuts! The Jewish population is small. There is a superb Day School (Orthodox) here, where kids come from all over, even CT, but the public school system has 4 grade schools, one Middle School and 1 High School. There is also a Parochial School.

There is not one kosher butcher in either village. There are 2 in the New Rochelle-Scarsdale area. We go to Brooklyn! There is 1 Reform Temple in Larchmont, 1 Conservative Synagogue in Mamaroneck, and one in Larchmont, and the Orthodox Synagogue is on the grounds of the Day School.

There is early dismissal every Wednesday for kids to go for religious studies. Thus the schools close lunchtime.

Rosh HaShanah and Yom Kippur the schools are closed. They try to schedule Spring Break to cover Passover and Easter, but this year they were a month apart. The schools were closed that Monday, as we had not used up the snow days.The last day of Passover the schools were open. Minor holidays like Hanukka and Purim, the schools are open, unless, in the case of Hanukka, it falls during Winter Break. There is no restriction on these days, and when I was a kid*, Hannuka was latkes, dreidels and a gift. Now? Oy! :) For other holidays like Sukkot and Shavuot, where there is no work done, Jewish kids get the days off as long as a note from the parents is provided, and any Jewish teachers are also off if they choose.The schools do not schedule exams on these days.

*contrary to popular belief, I did not walk uphill 6 miles both ways.

Here is the Mamaroneck School calendar for October ,and Rosh HaShanah.

There has never been a fuss from the Christian community, never. We have lived here for nearly 35 years.

336 NY Nana  Wed, May 11, 2005 2:45:11pm

OMG: checking #328's LGF, the blog is linked to LGF and wankette!

Talk about the sublime and the ludicrous...day and night, good and evil....oy!

337 Captain Hate  Wed, May 11, 2005 2:59:41pm

Let the ROPers bring a rock to school for show and tell so everybody can know what they worship. And then they can STFU.

338 Joshua Godinez  Wed, May 11, 2005 3:26:01pm

This is what I was afraid Bin Laden might accomplish. The PC crowd bending over backwards to ensure that we're not discriminating would elevate the muslim religion because of 9/11 so that in a weird way Bin Laden advances Islam in the world. I wouldn't have wanted a knee-jerk attach of all muslims after 9/11, but neither do I want a raise in estimation of the relgion. In fact, all subsequent investigation has revealed that Islam has not been an overall boon to society. Actually, I don't really know that, but that's my impression. I'd be happy to see any evidence that muslims, being observant religious people, are a net improvement for America. I simply haven't seen anything to lead me to believe that.

339 piglet  Wed, May 11, 2005 3:34:05pm

But did the calender include Diwali, the Hindu festival of lights?

340 NY Nana  Wed, May 11, 2005 4:08:11pm

#339 piglet

No, but you sure know how to party!

341 Vickie  Wed, May 11, 2005 4:15:32pm

Josh: Thats exactly what happened. Bending over backwards. Jews know all about this. The MORE the Islamists killed Jews in the 70s,80s, and 90s, the more people bent over back wards to rationalize and excuse their behavior and the more they BLAMED Jews for their own Murders. I good and sick of it. Had just about ENOUGH. I'm up to HERE with this and the "Religion of Peace."


Do you all remember when American Citizens could make a movie, or write a book without the PERMISSION of Foreigners? We cant now. And we arent on the way to LOSING this War?

342 Timbre  Wed, May 11, 2005 5:18:06pm

Someone may have already offered this: due to the exclusive use of a lunar calendar, all Muslim "holidays" rotate from year to year, moving backwards about 11 days per year.

343 Absoludicrious  Wed, May 11, 2005 5:28:21pm

The Barbary Pirates were JIHADISTS.

So... you didn't read anything I posted then. All right.

They were normal Muslims who didn't drink but who DID pray towards Mecca five times per day.

And who apparently had Jewish mistresses, which strikes me as a bit, I don't know, nonstandard insofar as Islamists are concerned, you know?

They were Muslims who attacked and robbed innocent non-Muslim cargo and passenger ships (rather than war ships) because they were infidels.

Pirates aren't known for attacking warships, kiddo. They try to avoid warships so they can prey on shipping. That's what pirates do.

As for the religion- the pashas were beholden to the Ottoman Sultan, under whose flag the only Muslim shipping in the Mediterranean flew. Complaining that they didn't attack Muslim ships is rather like complaining that the Royal Navy didn't attack itself at Trafalgar.

There is way too much proof that they were just ordinary Muslims who made their livings attacking non-Muslims.

Show some of it, then. Max Boot, with whom you would otherwise probably agree, doesn't see any.

344 Ben F  Wed, May 11, 2005 5:49:25pm

#212 Bob's Kid has what strikes me as a killer point. YOU CAN'T put fixed dates for the Eids on an administrative calendar because they can't be nailed down. In some communities they are based on local sightings of the crescent moon, which can be estimated but not known for certain in advance, while other Muslims may follow a custom of observing the Eid on the same date as hajjis, or the community "back home." This remains a contentious subject, and a governmental body like a county school system cannot possibly allow itself to be drawn into the fray.

The Jewish calendar was once based on sitings, and may be again if the Great Sanhedrin is reconstituted, but for the time being it's purely algorithmic and therefore the dates of the holidays relative to the civil calendar can be calculated years in advance.

345 Gambisin  Wed, May 11, 2005 7:38:30pm

Absoludicrious doesn't seem to realize it's necessary to read more than one book to comprehend much about history. He/she should try Jefferson(as in Thomas)and Ben Franklin for starters.
Having learned a bit while living in the former Ottoman Empire by reading THEIR books as well, he/she doesn't appear to know enough to even begin a discussion, let alone argue a point.

346 rightasrain  Wed, May 11, 2005 7:56:18pm

#343 Absoludicrious

Jefferson & The Barbarians

"...Today, March 27th, is the anniversary of the birth of the United States Navy, in the Christian year 1794. On that day the United States Congress formally signed off on a bill calling for the building of the first six warships of a navy, and the gentlemen sitting in the temporary capital of Philadelphia did so in response to the menace of Islamist terrorism in the Middle East.

"I’ll bet you never heard that before. But in fact, at the very moment of their vote, there were more than 100 US citizens in the Middle East being held for ransom, who were not only hostages in the hands of their Muslim captors but who were also, as they awaited being rescued by their government, enslaved. Housed in torchlight dungeons by night, some of them, by day, worked under cruel taskmasters in a rock quarry, toiling like the Children of Israel in Egypt.

"Most of them had been in captivity for around six months, a handful for around nine years. That’s right, you heard right: some fourteen survivors of an original twenty-one innocent American citizens who had been hijacked at sea off the coast of Portugal in 1785 were in their ninth year of slavery.

"But as I say, the bulk of the more than 100 had been innocent passengers on commercial ships who at the moment were enslaved in Algiers. The eleven separate US merchantmen they were on in the fall of 1793 were captured by cruisers manned by Algerines(!), as the English language then referred to the Mussulmen(Muslims) who lived in that walled city. It was considered the most ferocious of Islamic city-states, nicknamed in popular culture “The Scourge of Christendom” or “The Terror of the Nurseries,” (meaning kindergartens) for one way older children in those days terrorized their kid brothers was to threaten them with being kidnapped by pirates, with the Algerines considered the most ferocious of them, if not by much. Being captured by cruisers from Tripoli, Libya, Tunis or Morocco also resulted in slavery until friends or family or your church ransomed you.

"Two centuries ago, national governments routinely did not feel responsible. Piracy was considered something like hidden reefs or storms at sea, a hazard of travel and something for the insurance companies to deal with, not the national government. Christians from the Catholic countries looked to the church for rescue, specifically an order of priests formerly called the Order for the Redemption of Captives, popularly called the Mathurin Brothers, who had permanent representatives in Morocco, Tunis, Libya and Algiers to deal with the chronic appearance in those Muslim lands of captured Catholics.

"In the Protestant countries, by contrast, Chambers of Commerce took on the responsibility of rescuing hostages. And also local churches, specifically those in the ports who served the families of the husbands and fathers and brothers taken captive, the professional seamen. Their church would hold lotteries and fundraising events to raise the ransom needed to free them. One such effort in New York City in the early 18th century raised more than enough cash, a surplus then used to top off the steeple of Trinity Church, still standing today on Broadway near Wall Street, which got hit by the falling debris on
9/11.

"So that’s the way it was two centuries ago, until something new happened, which was the birth of the United States of America. The thirteen former colonies became legally independent in May 1784, when Congress, the only branch of government in those days, still under the so-called Articles of Confederation, approved the peace treaty with England. Just five months later, the first American passenger and cargo vessel was captured by cruisers from Morocco, and it took nine months to free them, after Congress promised to send the Sultan there $40,000...

347 rightasrain  Wed, May 11, 2005 7:56:31pm

Jefferson & The Barbarians - Pt II

"...(Nine months was really no time at all given the fact that in winter it could take months just to send a letter one-way across the Atlantic Ocean and get a reply.)

"These merchant seamen were liberated in the spring of 1785, but two weeks later another two US merchant ships carrying 21 seamen were captured by cruisers from Algiers, and the US diplomatic corps in Europe, which was tiny, had to deal with the problem. They were the first US diplomats to have to handle a hostage crisis in the Middle East, and how they responded is instructive; men who couldn’t have been more American in their attitudes, considering who they were.

"When word reached Paris in September 1785 that several weeks back two more US ships had been hijacked by the so-called Barbary Pirates, on duty were three trade commissioners commissioned by Congress to launch US commerce into European markets, and what they had to say about the situation is most illuminating...By the way, their names were Benjamin Franklin, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson.

-----

"So, there they were in Paris, the three American trade commissioners. One of them, Benjamin Franklin, 76 years old, had been the most famous man in Colonial America. John Adams, although he didn’t know it yet, would become the future second president of the United States; Thomas Jefferson, the future third. All three had worked together in the summer of 1776 on the proper language for a declaration of independence, with Jefferson the principle author.

"They had been commissioned by Congress in the first session of legal independence in May of 1784 to gather in Paris—actually for Jefferson to go there; Adams and Franklin were already there--to see about marketing US products in Europe, no easy task in that traditionally closed, mercantile economic system.

"When Jefferson reached Paris in August - interestingly enough from our perspective – he sized up the political situation in Europe with a view to furthering the interests of American business overseas but discovered that one mundane fact seemed to pose the greatest and most immediate threat to the fledgling U.S. Americans were swamped in Revolutionary War debt, and the way to pay it off, of course, would be shipping to foreign markets the great natural wealth of the land, its raw materials and commodities, e.g. lumber from its endless forests, the abundant produce from its fertile soil, the skins of animals for clothing, etc. But with the thirteen ex-colonies now independent of England, when their merchant vessels made the trans-Atlantic crossing, they would no longer be protected by two things: 1) His Majesty’s Royal Navy, the greatest in the world, with a base at Gibraltar--sort of a police station at the mouth of the Mediterranean—and 2) the “tribute” that the King of England paid yearly to the pashas of Tripoli, Tunis, Algiers and Morocco, basically insurance or protection money.

"When Jefferson had made his first trans-Atlantic voyage in July, he had taken along for reading Cervantes’ classic novel Don Quixote, in which several central chapters are devoted to slavery in Algiers, based on Cervantes’ own five years as a slave there. So the subject of Barbary piracy could not have been wholly foreign to him.

"But what surprised him during his investigation was that contrary to popular usage, which called these hijackers “pirates,” he discovered that they were not typical pirates at all, criminals out for lucre, who when ashore liked to hang out in taverns and get drunk and paw at wenches...

348 rightasrain  Wed, May 11, 2005 7:56:43pm

Jefferson & The Barbarians - Pt III

"Oh no. These so-called Barbary “pirates” were in reality just normal Middle Easterners, Muslims, who did not drink alcohol at all. They prayed several times daily, like all good Muslims, and in fact saw themselves not as independent, free-booting, venal “pirates” but sailors in the official navies of the city-states they sailed from. And while their occupation was capturing and selling slaves--as well as the captured ships and their cargoes-- their rationale for doing so was religious. They saw themselves engaged in a jihad and called themselves mujahiddin (holy warriors).

"Jefferson - who like his two partners thought their principle work for Congress would be diplomacy in Europe having to do with trade relations there - saw right away the immediate danger to US cargo and merchant sailing ships no longer protected by the Crown, no longer flying the Union Jack but the Stars and Stripes, which flag no Mussulman had ever
seen.

"Jefferson foresaw catastrophe and thus spent the fall of 1784 reading up on Islam, asking fellow diplomats in Paris how their countries dealt with the issue. He discovered that for a thousand years the Muslims of North Africa had plagued Europe with their hijacking, hostage-taking and enslaving. In truth, Europe also engaged in capturing Muslims and enslaving them too, but that practice faded away by the early 18 century.

"Jefferson discovered that in practically every century some European navy got fed up and shelled these port cities, but no one power ever succeeded in ending the problem.

"There was also, from Europe’s perspective, a religious dimension, as all Christian nations were themselves, for over a thousand years of Islam, no less locked in an eternal holy war with it, which according to Catholic doctrine is not another religion but a heresy with which there can be no peace. The kings of Catholic Spain on their coronation oath for centuries pledged eternal war against the infidel Muslims. The Crusades may have ended centuries earlier, but not the animosity or the low-level violence.

"Jefferson also discovered that a major turning point in history occurred in the 1680s when Protestant England became the first Christian state to ignore religion and see the problem pragmatically. With the British Empire burgeoning in that period, men of business reasoned that it would be better to free the Royal Navy for safeguarding the global empire than remain bogged down in the Mediterranean protecting the increasingly small percentage of their trade there.

"A couple years later, Louis XIV of France followed England’s lead, and before long every maritime trading country in Europe was paying for the right to sail and do business in the Middle East unmolested.

"But Jefferson also found out that the purchase of peace was at best a temporary solution, for the Mussulmen would always find some excuse to break the agreement, saying it was the European country’s fault, and then force new negotiations for higher tribute.

"Now, Thomas Jefferson is remembered as the father of the American principle of a “wall of separation” between church and state, and thus he found it unacceptable that in his enlightened age - what his friend Tom Paine nicknamed “The Age of Reason”- there were still such people in the world as these Mussulmen who did such things as kidnap and enslave on the basis of holy war....

349 rightasrain  Wed, May 11, 2005 7:56:54pm

Jefferson & The Barbarians - Pt IV

"Finally, Jefferson discovered that the ‘tribute” was in reality less about cash and gifts of jewels, spices and fine fabrics, and more about weapons. The “tribute” was largely a demand for guns, ammo and naval supplies, without which the so called Barbary Pirates couldn’t be pirates at all.

"They were much too primitive to have their own foundries capable of producing cannon and cannon balls, gunpowder, the iron spikes and nails required on sailing ships; not to mention strong canvas and sturdy rope. And the Europeans, led by the French, were only too happy to oblige. Sending weapons meant helping the pirates arm themselves for their attacks on Christians, meaning, fellow Europeans aboard innocent sailing vessels, but so what? European states were routinely in a state of war with one another, so, for example, what cared the French if the weapons they supplied the Algerines and Tripolitans were used to hijack and enslave Spaniards and Italians?

----

"So Thomas Jefferson, after three months of living in Paris and researching the history and current status of the menace of militant Islam, formulated a policy in contrast to his two partners, both of whom had spent years as diplomats in Europe. Franklin, the Pennsylvania Quaker, reckoned that since most US maritime business was conducted elsewhere, US importers and exporters might just avoid that dangerous sea. Franklin didn’t
think the US did enough business there and could just avoid the problem.

"But John Adams, a lawyer to Boston shippers well-versed in maritime commerce and the laws of piracy, knew that in fact the US did enough business in the Mediterranean not to want to give up that market. He too knew something of the history of the problem and reasoned that since the super powers, England, France, Spain, with their major navies, had chosen the path of tribute rather than violence, America, with no navy, had no choice. After the Revolution the U.S. had sold off or scrapped every armed vessel it had.

"Still, Jefferson, the father of the American liberal tradition, wanted to fight. He found it intolerable that their revolutionary and little-in-population new country would join this corrupt European practice in which civilized nations gave arms and money to uncivilized “barbarians”--his word--who used the weapons to attack civilized people and turn them into slaves, a slavery, by the way, which meant a high chance of death due to the cruel and unsanitary conditions. North Africa was a swamp of diseases, and in those days when a ship docked in a European port after having sailed from the Middle East, all the passengers and crews were required to enter a dormitory-like facility (lazaretto) and remain in quarantine for weeks, to prove they were not carriers of disease, before being allowed into the country.

"People in slavery also died from being beaten to death--though not too often, because they were, after all, a man’s property.

"Anyway, within weeks of formulating his strategy and tactics for dealing with the socalled and misnamed “Barbary Pirates,” (really Barbary Islamic fundamentalists) which included his prescription for the building of a fleet of American warships, he got word of that first hijacking by Morocco (already mentioned) and later, in the summer of ‘85, the next two ships.

"Jefferson remained in Paris for another four years, during which time he and Adams never succeeded in winning freedom for those 21 hostages, who were still in captivity when the former returned home after five years in France to become the United States’ first Secretary of State.

"And for the next three years - unlike Colin Powell - he was the number one “hawk” for war in America, pressing Congress and President Washington to build a navy to rescue the hostages and put an end to hijacking and hostage-taking in the Middle East, perpetrated by Mussulmen who did so in the name of their religion...

350 rightasrain  Wed, May 11, 2005 7:57:05pm

Jefferson & The Barbarians - Pt V

"In 1790, as the first Secretary of State, Jefferson wrote a report on the status of Mediterranean commerce pertaining to the U.S., which dealt with the plight of the hostages still in Algiers.

"In 1792, he commissioned John Paul Jones, the great naval hero of the Revolution, who was a fellow radical liberal, to go to Algiers to see what could be accomplished diplomatically but also to size the place up as a possible target for a U.S. attack (though Jones died before he could execute the mission).

"In late 1793, Jefferson, after three years in office, wanted to retire, and the last report to Congress on any subject he wrote was again about the situation in the Mediterranean and the recent, dreadful news that Algiers had struck again, captured those 11 merchant ships mentioned earlier, and the crisis of the American economy as a result of it.

"When the word reached New York City of the mass hijacking, the stock market crashed. In the few days it took for the news to travel up and down the Atlantic seaboard, voyages were canceled in every major port, seamen were thrown out of work, and ship suppliers went out of business.

"What 9/11 did to the US economy in 2002, the mass hijacking of late 1793 did too. So it is not surprising that four months later, on March 27th, 1794, the US Congress finally, after debating the topic sporadically over a decade since the first hijacking to Morocco, finally decided to build a fleet of warships: six extra-large frigates, including the first Constellation, which today is a tourist attraction in Baltimore’s Harbor Place, and the forerunner of the Constellation, the aircraft carrier on station today in the Persian Gulf in the war against Iraq.

"Also among the six was the Constitution (Old Ironsides), to this day on display in Boston harbor.

"Congress’ compromise idea was to build the ships in hope that the construction itself might scare the Algerines, while at the same sending negotiators (John Adams-style) to appease them by imitating Europe and offering to join the tribute system. The law passed 209 years ago tried to please both hawks and doves in Congress by ordering the building of a fleet, while simultaneously sending negotiators to deal, with the legislation specifying that if they succeeded, the ship-building, immensely expensive in every generation, would stop.

"And that is exactly what happened. The U.S. wound up paying close to $1,000,000 in ransom and also, to atone for the tardy delivery of the barrels of gold coins, to throw in, for free, a brand new warship as a gift to the pasha of Algiers. It was christened “The Crescent,” in honor of the Islamic flag.

"In 1796, some 85 surviving American hostages, crippled and emaciated by the ordeal, were freed from slavery.

"Eventually the ship-building resumed, but the menace of Barbary piracy continued to plague the US and led to a four-year war against Tripoli conducted by President Thomas Jefferson that started in 1801.

"Not until France finally occupied Algiers in 1830, and later Tunisia and Morocco, did Barbary Piracy completely disappear. Only under imperial occupation could the piracy be suppressed.

"Indeed, after France left, in 1962, liberated Algeria emerged as a major base for socalled international terrorism, meaning, largely, Arab terrorists terrorizing the world."

351 rightasrain  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:04:50pm

Summing up the best description of the Barbary Pirates:

""But what surprised him during his investigation was that contrary to popular usage, which called these hijackers “pirates,” he discovered that they were not typical pirates at all, criminals out for lucre, who when ashore liked to hang out in taverns and get drunk and paw at wenches.

"Oh no. These so-called Barbary “pirates” were in reality just normal Middle Easterners, Muslims, who did not drink alcohol at all. They prayed several times daily, like all good Muslims, and in fact saw themselves not as independent, free-booting, venal “pirates” but sailors in the official navies of the city-states they sailed from. And while their occupation was capturing and selling slaves--as well as the captured ships and their cargoes-- their rationale for doing so was religious. They saw themselves engaged in a jihad and called themselves mujahiddin (holy warriors)."

----

When Thomas Jefferson negotiated with the representatives from the Middle East for issues of tribute and ransom, he asked them why they wanted to attack America who had done nothing wrong to them.

They explained it with one word: "JIHAD."

Jefferson & The Barbarians

352 rightasrain  Wed, May 11, 2005 8:09:58pm

We were attacked then (and we're being attacked now) NOT for what we've done but for who we are.

More precisely, for who we are NOT (ie, not Muslims.)

353 transferthem  Wed, May 11, 2005 9:35:18pm

These bacterial subhuman scum should be put straight on to a plane back to where they came from.

354 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Thu, May 12, 2005 5:05:43am
355 quark2  Thu, May 12, 2005 8:31:49am

@351

It would have been better to have linked to such a lengthy article. It is very educational, but takes up much of Charles' bandwith.

356 rightasrain  Thu, May 12, 2005 8:33:02am

#355 Quark

Absolutely right, Quark. Point taken.

357 quark2  Thu, May 12, 2005 9:57:57am

@3 Nodrog

Christmas doesn't count because it is during the winter holiday season anyway.

Christmas doesn't count why? The "so called" winter holiday ARE the renamed Christmas holidays. Therefore are you
insinuating that Christmas just doesn't matter? Mebbe we should just recognized and acknowledge islam, and while we're at it, overthrow our constitutional governance and have shar'ia instead.

Oh, and liberals are traitors.

358 Absoludicrious  Thu, May 12, 2005 4:53:11pm

A great deal of sound and fury, rightasrain, but it again signifies nothing. State-sponsored piracy by people who would take great affront at being called pirates was commonplace in the time period; it was known as privateering. Sir Francis Drake, who pillaged Spanish shipping quite merrily, would have bristled at the suggestion and was also a good, observant Christian. You've yet to prove that Islamism- an ideology that these attacks predate by some time- had anything to do with it. I'm absolutely dying to know how you reconcile Jewish mistresses with this alleged Islamism, seeing as how Islamists are rabid anti-Semites.

You might try reading outside polemics; people with axes to grind are willing to overlook all manner of things in pursuit of their goals.

And to whomever it was who insinuated I'd read only one book- I can't be bothered to scroll up and look- I chose Mr. Boot because he's quite the hawk, and the book I cited is often used by the more intellectual sort of hawk to demonstrate that military intervention is a good and useful thing, even in small instances.

359 Absoludicrious  Thu, May 12, 2005 4:54:39pm

Quark2: People have found that time of year during which the days stop getting shorter to be cause for celebration since time immemorial; Christmas was not set for December 25th because that's the date on Jesus' birth certificate, you know.

360 rightasrain  Thu, May 12, 2005 9:24:10pm

#358 Absoludicrious

I'm absolutely dying to know how you reconcile Jewish mistresses with this alleged Islamism, seeing as how Islamists are rabid anti-Semites.

So, you're saying that the Barbary Pirates weren't even Muslims?

Or do you think most Muslims like Jews, but Islamists do not?

You are painting yourself into a corner.

361 Absoludicrious  Fri, May 13, 2005 2:05:20am

I'm saying that Ali Karamanli, pasha of Tripoli for quite some time, had a Jewish mistress, rightasrain. I'm daring you to try to reconcile this with your theory that the Barbary pirates were religiously motivated Islamist maritime terrorists. In my next comment, I have a feeling I'm going to be taunting you either for a refusal to attempt such a feat or for a sad failure to succeed at it. I'm sorely tempted to taunt you for what was apparently a claim that targetting shipping and avoiding warships was somehow not piratical behavior.

By your theory, these people were the ideological forebears of Osama bin Laden. Now, call me crazy, but I can't see that dude having the hots for Goldie Hawn. Can you?

362 rightasrain  Fri, May 13, 2005 6:41:08am

#361 Absoludicrious

I'm saying that Ali Karamanli, pasha of Tripoli for quite some time, had a Jewish mistress, rightasrain. I'm daring you to try to reconcile this with your theory that the Barbary pirates were religiously motivated Islamist maritime terrorists.

These people called themselves mujahedeen (people who were waging jihad.) I guess their lives didn't rise and fall on the parsha's penis.

I'm sorely tempted to taunt you for what was apparently a claim that targetting shipping and avoiding warships was somehow not piratical behavior.

These guys were not pirates in the sense of being in business for themselves as guys who would get drunk and paw wenches when they weren't out being pirates. No "yo ho ho and a bottle of rum."

If you don't have sufficient brain cells to comprehend what I'm trying to tell you, then I can't help you.

363 rightasrain  Fri, May 13, 2005 6:48:48am

Muslim pirates were not the same as the pirates were're most used to reading about.

The Barbary Pirates acted as part of their city-states' "navy" by engaging in theft, kidnapping, slavery and ransom on their city-states' behalf.

These city-states earned their livings in this by getting entire nations (like France, England, etc.) to pay "TRIBUTE" (ie, "protection money") to keep them from attacking certain nations' civilian ships.

What this has to do with one parsha's penis is something only Absoludicrious knows.

364 rightasrain  Fri, May 13, 2005 6:53:42am

The Barbary Pirates

Group of fighters who attacked American ships along the Barbary Coast of northern Africa at in the first few years of the 19th Century.

They were members of a handful of African states who at first signed treaties with the United States in which they promised to stop attacking American ships. However, they broke those treaties. The U.S. fought back with force. Both the Navy and the Marines won big victories, including one at Tripoli in 1805."

These states signed treaties with America over these attacks because the mujahedeen represented them. These treaties were broken, of course.

The Barbary Pirates

365 rightasrain  Fri, May 13, 2005 6:55:48am

Barbary Pirates

seamen from the Barbary States of North Africa (Algiers, Morocco, Tripolitania, and Tunis) who attacked ships of other nations in the Mediterranean Sea in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries.

These nations were expected to pay an annual tribute, or bribe, for safe passage; otherwise the Barbary pirates would seize ships and hold the crews for ransom.

In 1801 President Thomas Jefferson sent American ships and U.S. Marines to the coast of North Africa to put an end to the piracies.

In 1815 the Barbary rulers agreed to abolish all demands for annual payments from and acts of piracy against the United States.

Barbary Pirates

366 rightasrain  Fri, May 13, 2005 6:56:12am

No mention of the parsha's pecker in these stories.

367 rightasrain  Fri, May 13, 2005 7:01:06am

These states were Muslim and they attacked non-Muslim civilian ships in order to steal from other nations and get ransom for non-Muslims they had enslaved.

These states demanded "tribute" in order to agree to have their pirates NOT attack certain nations' civilian ships.

They were not "pirates" in the way that we usually define the term.

They were Muslim "fighters" for their states.

Their states' business was ROBBERY and a protection money racket.

This is how they waged jihad against non-Muslim nations at the time.

Are they identical to Osama? No, he doesn't work for Muslim states directly.

Those who waged jihad for Muslim states are different from pirates with skulls and crossbones on their masts, though.

It's all I was trying to say.

The business of the parsha's pecker has nothing to do with any of this.

368 rightasrain  Fri, May 13, 2005 7:59:24am

Seriously, there is no reason to argue about this.

These "pirates" were Muslims who fought on behalf of their "city-states" (which made them far different from the sorts of people we usually think about when we hear the term "pirate.")

They were attacking non-Muslim civilian ships in order to get Christian slaves, goods, and money from non-Muslim nations. It was how they earned their livings.

The Muslim nations were still angry over the Crusades (as they are still angry over the Crusades today.)

The whole point is that we were fighting mujahedeen two hundred years ago (and we went to war against them) because they were attacking us.

We're doing the same thing today.

Islamists aren't attacking us for what we've done, but for who we are (which is the same reason they were attacking non-Muslim civilian ships for a thousand years until America and some others put a stop to it a couple of hundred years ago.)

What we are going through today is NOT a new problem, in other words.

369 Absoludicrious  Fri, May 13, 2005 1:21:20pm

These guys were not pirates in the sense of being in business for themselves as guys who would get drunk and paw wenches when they weren't out being pirates. No "yo ho ho and a bottle of rum."

Right, they were privateers- state-sponsored pirates. Privateering was commonplace at the time; it even is mentioned in the U.S. Constitution (that bit about letters of marque and reprisal, if you haven't read it). Hadn't I already explained that to you?

The Barbary Pirates acted as part of their city-states' "navy" by engaging in theft, kidnapping, slavery and ransom on their city-states' behalf.

Uh huh. They were privateers. I already told you that. Don't you pay attention?

What this has to do with one parsha's penis is something only Absoludicrious knows.

Well let's see, brother. You say these people were 1) acting on behalf of their rulers and 2) Islamist terrorists who presaged today's Islamist terrorism. So what the hell were these Islamists doing following a fellow who was boinking a Jew? Osama bin Laden won't have anything to do with the House of Saud just because the House of Saud let some Christian soldiers into the country; can you imagine his reaction of Crown Prince Abdullah was boinking Goldie Hawn?

No mention of the parsha's pecker in these stories.

Because no one in those stories is trying to prove that a gaggle of pirates operating under the flag of a North African potentate were the forebears of al-Qaeda. If you do try to prove such a wacky notion, you need educating. I am here to provide it. Rejoice!

These states were Muslim and they attacked non-Muslim civilian ships in order to steal from other nations and get ransom for non-Muslims they had enslaved.

All the Muslim ships flew under the flag of their suzerain, the Sublime Porte. Sir Francis Drake rather notably did not attack any English shipping. Why?

Their states' business was ROBBERY and a protection money racket.

Sure, they were bad people. But bad people existed before Mohammed was a twinkle in anyone's eye. Look into G. Iulius Caesar's and G. Pompeius's adventures with piracy. Hell, the opening pages of Thucydides' History of the Pelopponesian War state plainly that piracy was commonplace among the Greek city states before the Persian wars.

Somehow, I bet you've never read that book.

Islamists aren't attacking us for what we've done, but for who we are (which is the same reason they were attacking non-Muslim civilian ships for a thousand years until America and some others put a stop to it a couple of hundred years ago.)

They were attacking non-Muslim ships because Muslims in the Mediterranean were united into a single polity. One of the notable features of governments is that they rarely attack themselves.

Now, here's what you do. You read the things I wrote, and then you try to formulate a response, which does not mean just repeating yourself.

370 Absoludicrious  Fri, May 13, 2005 1:22:36pm

That ought to be Gn. Pompeius. Oops.

371 rightasrain  Fri, May 13, 2005 1:30:18pm

Absoludicrious,

You're ranting over nothing.

The Barbary Pirates were Muslims who were waging Jihad.

Now, it's unclear whether you are so fond of Osama bin Laden that you don't want him dissed by being compared to the Barbary Pirates or if it's the other way around.

The point is - we've been down the road of fighting a war against Muslim Jihad already.

It's nothing new. We fought in the Middle East 200 years ago because they were attacking us without justification.

By the way, I didn't compare your hero Osama to your heroes in the Barbary Pirates directly, as far as I know.

I pointed out that we've been up against Jihad more than once - and the first time was 200 years ago.

Nothing you're written contradicts this.

This matter of the parsha's pecker is absurd - it has nothing whatever to do with who ruled in these Muslim nations back then or why other Muslims followed them.

If you find a source that claims Osama slept with a Jewish woman (G-D FORBID!), would this mean that 9/11 didn't happen or that the perps weren't really doing it for reasons of religion?

You're being stupid, Abso.

372 rightasrain  Fri, May 13, 2005 1:37:12pm

A few of the 9/11 skydevils looked at porn in the days or weeks before they attacked us.

Does this mean they didn't attack us for religious reasons?

Of course not.

The whole thing with the pasha's pecker is absurd.

These nations were Muslim no matter what he did in his private life.

373 Absoludicrious  Sat, May 14, 2005 7:16:09pm

The Barbary Pirates were Muslims who were waging Jihad.

Prove it. You can assert it over and over and over; you'll have to provide some proof.

Now, it's unclear whether you are so fond of Osama bin Laden that you don't want him dissed by being compared to the Barbary Pirates or if it's the other way around

I spent Sept. 11th with a good friend of mine as he tried over and over to get in touch with different members of his family who lived in NYC, where he was born. I watched him dial the same telephone numbers over and over, with his hands shaking and tears rolling down his face. They all survived, but we didn't know that until the next day in most cases. In the case of his uncle, an NYPD officer, it was two days after that. You, rightasrain, are a shitstain. I hope you're comfortable with that.

We fought in the Middle East 200 years ago because they were attacking us without justification.

They were raiding shipping, which is what privateers do.

Maybe I should tell you exactly what you must do to prove your point. Simply pointing out that Muslim privateers were behaving like privateers proves nothing. You have to link the behavior to Islam; you have to demonstrate how this privateering and piracy was different from the privateering and piracy that pervaded the Mediterreanean for millenia.

I pointed out that we've been up against Jihad more than once

The British were up against the same behavior in the Caribbean and Atlantic a few hundred years ago. The Americans were up against it not too far from here- Jean Lafitte ring a bell? The British inflicted it on the Spanish once upon a time as well. If literally every country on the entire planet engages in some behavior, why does it only become wicked when Muslims do it?

Nothing you're written contradicts this.

Sure it has. There's the bit about how the behavior was well within accepted norms at the time- privateering is in the Constitution- and the bit about how these alleged jihadists were led by dissolute monarchs who happened to govern some of the most cosmopolitan cities of their time.

This matter of the parsha's pecker is absurd - it has nothing whatever to do with who ruled in these Muslim nations back then or why other Muslims followed them.

Sure it does. Osama bin Laden is, by all accounts, a very good Muslim insofar as observing religious law is concerned. He doesn't drink, he doesn't fornicate, he keeps all the dietary laws, etc. These pashas were not especially observant Muslims. How could they be leaders of a religious war when they don't appear to pay much attention to the religion?

If you find a source that claims Osama slept with a Jewish woman (G-D FORBID!), would this mean that 9/11 didn't happen or that the perps weren't really doing it for reasons of religion?

Were it widely believed that Osama bin Laden kept a Jewish mistress, his ability to lead religious fanatics of the Muslim variety would evaporate. Do you honestly think his followers, who are quite rabidly anti-semitic, would accept such a thing?

You're being stupid, Abso.

Nah. I'm pretty much awesome.

A few of the 9/11 skydevils looked at porn in the days or weeks before they attacked us.

They also shaved their beards because they got a religious dispensation to break religious laws to blend into American society. Basically, they were allowed to act up over here, according to whomever they got to say they could.

The whole thing with the pasha's pecker is absurd.

These nations were Muslim no matter what he did in his private life.

'Twasn't really his private life; the woman even had a nickname. Again, let's say Osama got filmed nailing some Jewish woman. How many of his followers would still follow him?

374 rightasrain  Sat, May 14, 2005 7:23:44pm

#373 Absoludicrious

Again, let's say Osama got filmed nailing some Jewish woman. How many of his followers would still follow him?

Let's say that Osama got filmed having an orgy with 10,000 infidel women.

He wouldn't lose a single follower.

They would say that Jews faked the images.

Many Muslims do not believe to this day that Osama did 9/11. They think Israel did it.

Osama has CLAIMED responsibility for 9/11, but many Muslims believe that Bush and the Joooos faked everything, including his videos that took responsibility.

As for the Parshas and any personal sinning they might have done - the Islamic world is DICTATORSHIPS to this very day (as they were in the time of the Islamic Barbery Pirates.) Even if he'd danced naked with infidel women on his front porch every day, people would have been killed for not following this guy.

You're just stirring up the pot, like octogone and sebastardpol.

You have nothing in your argument that is worthy of changing history.

375 rightasrain  Sat, May 14, 2005 7:29:18pm

Quote from Jihad Watch:

The first use of the power of Congress to declare war was against the pasha of Tripoli who unilaterally declared a jihad on the United States on May 10, 1801. President Bush is doing exactly what President Jefferson did to repress the threat of jihad: take the fight to them and use overwhelming force.

In 1806 President Jefferson reported to Congress, "The states on the coast of Barbary seem generally disposed at present to respect our peace and friendship." The jihad flared nine years later but the United States under the leadership of President Madison again brought overwhelming force to bear and stuffed the genie of jihad back into its wretched bottle, from which it has escaped again in the 21st century.

The cancer of jihad is not new and neither is the cure. We just have to remember our own history to know that the Jefferson/Madison/Bush doctrine is destined to succeed. It will be a hard fight and it will take time, perhaps more time than in the past, as we have become complacent and allowed the murderous ideology that inspires the jihadists to take root in our own land. Our ancestors confronted and defeated the scourge of jihad for more than a thousand years. Now it is our turn. (Nov 14, 2004)

Journey to Jihad

(I'm not making this up. It's a matter of history.)

376 rightasrain  Sat, May 14, 2005 7:35:00pm

Joseph Farah - WorldNetDaily:

Most Americans probably think the Islamic terrorists declared war on the United States Sept. 11, 2001.

Actually, it started a long time before – right from the birth of the nation.

In 1784, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and Benjamin Franklin were commissioned by the first Congress to assemble in Paris to see about marketing U.S. products in Europe.

Jefferson quickly surmised that the biggest challenge facing U.S. merchant ships were those referred to euphemistically as "Barbary pirates."

They weren't "pirates" at all, in the traditional sense, Jefferson noticed. They didn't drink and chase women and they really weren't out to strike it rich. Instead, their motivation was strictly religious. They bought and sold slaves, to be sure. They looted ships. But they used their booty to buy guns, ships, cannon and ammunition.

Like those we call "terrorists" today, they saw themselves engaged in jihad and called themselves "mujahiddin..."

No more appeasement

377 rightasrain  Sat, May 14, 2005 7:42:04pm

Ttime Magazine Archive Ad...

Within days of his March 1801 inauguration as the third President of the United States, Thomas Jefferson ordered a naval and military expedition to North Africa, without the authorization of Congress, to put down regimes involved in slavery and piracy. The war was the first in which the U.S. flag was carried and planted overseas; it saw the baptism by fire of the U.S. Marine Corps--whose anthem boasts of action on " the shores of Tripoli" --and it prefigured later struggles with both terrorism and jihad. The Barbary States of North Africa--Algiers, Tunis, Morocco and Tripoli (today's Libya)--had for...

Please notice these words:

...it prefigured later struggles with both terrorism and jihad...

Time Magazine Archive Ad

378 rightasrain  Sat, May 14, 2005 7:43:02pm

Even Time Magazine disagrees with you, Abso.

I suggest you give up.

379 Absoludicrious  Sun, May 15, 2005 8:06:29pm

They would say that Jews faked the images.

Way to dodge my point, rightasrain. Okay, I'll play. Let's pretend that everyone in the Muslim world believed, for whatever reason, that Osama bin Laden had a Jewish mistress. What would happen to his following?

The first use of the power of Congress to declare war was against the pasha of Tripoli who unilaterally declared a jihad on the United States on May 10, 1801.

Again, you have to differentiate between Barbary privateering and all the other piracy, privateering and general mischief that plagued the Mediterreanean for millenia. Just because Muslims did it doesn't make it different.

But they used their booty to buy guns, ships, cannon and ammunition.

And to fund the opulent lifestyles of their rulers. For Christ's sake, will you ever read or reference an actual work of history, or are polemics by nonhistorians who are pursuing agendas enough for you?

And you'll even cite Time!? Christ Almighty. Listen: There's a section in the bookstore you need to visit. It's labelled "History." Many of the books there do not have inflammatory titles, nor are they designed to buttress your beliefs. They are, by and large, dry accounts of events, devoted to determining precisely what happened, when and why. You will not find a lot of political pornography there. You will find the truthm if you look hard enough and think clearly enough.

I'll give you your mission one last time. You have to prove that what the Barbary states did was somehow different from the privateering that has rampant at the time and is indeed written into the Constitution of the United States. That, nothing more and nothing less, is what you must do to win this argument. You can cite all the people in the world using all the buzzwords in the world and it won't work.

380 rightasrain  Sun, May 15, 2005 8:27:47pm

#379 Absoludicrious

Let's pretend that everyone in the Muslim world believed, for whatever reason, that Osama bin Laden had a Jewish mistress. What would happen to his following?

A great many people knew that Arafat was having sex with men and little boys. His own doctor admits giving Arafat an AIDS test every six months.

He had/has a powerful following among Muslims anyway.

He killed Jews.

Muslims don't give up on nice infidel-attacking leaders because they do something wrong sexually.

Homosexuality is a death penalty offense in the Islamic world. They didn't care if Arafat did this, though, because he killed Jews.

Same thing applied for the Jihadists 200 years ago.

Why the hell should they care what the Pasha does in his private home when they can get out there (on the Pasha's behalf) and attack INFIDELS!

Jihad matters most.

381 rightasrain  Sun, May 15, 2005 8:29:58pm

It's not my mission to change your pigheaded mind, AbsolutelyRidiculous.

Think whatever you want.

The rest of us know already that it was Jihad THEN as surely as we are attacked for Jihad TODAY.

The Muslims said so THEN, as they say so TODAY.

382 Absoludicrious  Tue, May 17, 2005 11:32:37am

A great many people knew that Arafat was having sex with men and little boys.

You believe everything Communist intelligence agencies tell you? Then you won't believe the dirt I've got on Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn.

He killed Jews.

And this pasha nailed Jews, or at least a Jew. He didn't kill Jews, he kept a mistress and, incidentally, harbored a large Jewish community. His suzerain, the Ottoman Sultan, harbored one of the world's largest and most thriving Jewish communities at Salonika. The cognitive dissonance is building, the number of facts you have to ignore is growing.

Why the hell should they care what the Pasha does in his private home when they can get out there (on the Pasha's behalf) and attack INFIDELS!

Do you have that proof yet? Britain dispatched privateers against the Spanish; is this proof of perfidious Protestant savagery against good Catholics?

The rest of us know already that it was Jihad THEN as surely as we are attacked for Jihad TODAY.

Here in the reality-based community, we like to have some basis for our statements greater than OMG IT'S SO TRUE HERE THIS GUY WHO AGREES WITH ME SAY SO TOO. It's a pity you don't hold yourself to the same standard.

Asserting something repeatedly does not make it so. I ask again: please distinguish between the piracy of the Barbary states and the privateering and piracy that plagued the Mediterranean for millenia.

383 rightasrain  Tue, May 17, 2005 11:50:35am

#382 AbsolutelyRidiculous

A great many people knew that Arafat was having sex with men and little boys.

You believe everything Communist intelligence agencies tell you?

No, Arabs said this (and other Arabs believed them.) Arafat's own doctor confirmed just recently that he gave Arafat an AIDS test every six months (for obvious reasons.)

When Arafat was sickly and preparing to fly to Paris for his last trip, he tried to kiss one of his aids' hands - the man jerked his hand away from Arafat so strenuously that it almost pulled Arafat off his chair. The aid didn't want Arafat's spit on his hand.

"Palestinians" also said in various interviews over the years that they disliked Arafat for his homosexual activities. It's supposed to be a death penalty offense.

The Arabs in the Holy Land knew that he had sex with men and boys.

Asserting something repeatedly does not make it so. I ask again: please distinguish between the piracy of the Barbary states and the privateering and piracy that plagued the Mediterranean for millenia.

The representatives from the Muslim city-states called it "Jihad" and the Barbary Pirates called themselves "mujahedeen."

These have religious meanings.

Look them up.

384 rightasrain  Tue, May 17, 2005 12:08:06pm

AbsolutelyRidiculous, you're never going to accept the truth no matter how many references that I provide for you, but here's one you might have trouble turning away from quite so quickly:

The Discovery Channel

Book: Muslim Pirates Enslaved Whites
By Rossella Lorenzi, Discovery News

March 22, 2004 — More than a million Europeans were captured and enslaved by North African pirates between 1530 and 1780, according to a new study.

Called corsairs, the Muslim pirates abducted thousands of white Christians each year, forcing them to work as slaves in what is today Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria and Libya.

"Anyone who travelled in the Mediterranean, or who lived along the shores in places like Italy, France, Spain and Portugal, and even as far north as England and Iceland, was at risk of being seized," U.S. historian Robert Davis, an Ohio State University professor and the author of the research, told Discovery News.

"Italian coastal towns were raided in particular, and many seaside villages ended up being depopulated."

In his new book, "Christian Slaves, Muslim Masters: White Slavery In The Mediterranean, The Barbary Coast, And Italy, 1500-1800," Davis concluded that between 1 million and 1.25 million ended up in bondage.

"About 95 percent of slaves were males, and were often used as oarsmen in the pirates' galleys. Ruling pashas put the slaves in overcrowded "baths" called bagnes, and used them for hard labor in quarries, construction work and cutting trees," Davis said.

In the absence of written records such as custom forms, the historian developed a new methodology to calculate the number of white Christians who were enslaved along Africa's Barbary Coast.

Using the best records available indicating how many slaves were at a particular location at a single time, Davis estimated how many new slaves it would take to replace slaves as they died, escaped or were ransomed.

It emerged that about one-fourth of slaves had to be replaced each year to keep the slave population stable. That meant about 8,500 new slaves had to be captured each year. Overall, this suggests that between 1530 and 1780 the number of slaves ranged between 1 million and 1.25 million.

"One of the things that both the public and many scholars have tended to take as given is that slavery was always racial in nature. But that is not true. We cannot think of slavery as something that only white people did to black people," David said.

During the time period Davis studied, it was religion and ethnicity, as much as race, that determined who became slaves.

According to the historian, slavery in North Africa has been largely ignored or minimized because scholars preferred to treat Europeans as "evil colonialists" rather than as victims. Indeed, countries that were victims of slavery, such as France and Spain, would later colonize the areas in North Africa where their citizens were once held in bondage.

The large number of Europeans held as slaves appears to be consistent with historical facts, according to Ian Blanchard, professor of economic history at the University of Edinburgh and an authority on trade in Africa.

According to Blanchard, from the beginning of the 16th century, the arrival of gold from the Americas and the trade of slaves from West Africa forced the Barbary merchant fleet, which was transporting gold and slaves from southern to northern Africa, to change the business and turn to Europe.

"I don't find that figure of 1 million slaves unconvincingly. On the contrary, it makes total sense," Blanchard told Discovery News.

Book: Muslim Pirates Enslaved Whites

385 rightasrain  Tue, May 17, 2005 12:11:24pm

The Barbary Corsairs
By Cindy Vallar

The Barbary corsairs were privateers of the Ottoman Empire rather than pirates. While their exploits sometimes bordered on piracy and some naval captains and admirals had once been pirates, the objective of their raids altered from one of pure plundering and enslavement to a holy war waged against Rome and Christianity.

The leading corsairs were Saracens or renegadoes--Christians who converted to Islam, either to legally plunder Mediterranean ships or to gain their freedom from slavery. Christendom deemed the Barbary corsairs pirates and terrorists, and treated them accordingly. In 1584 Venetians captured a galley bound for Tripoli. They killed everyone aboard--fifty Moors, seventy-five Turks, 174 renegadoes, and forty-five women.

The corsairs operated out of several infamous havens along the coast of North Africa. Algiers’ natural harbor provided them a place to shelter their ships and served as an excellent home base from which to launch their attacks. When they returned to port after a successful hunt, the corsairs fired their cannon. The defenses ashore returned the salute. After the corsairs landed, there was much feasting and rejoicing. The pasha, ruler of Algiers, received one-seventh of the seized treasure and slaves. The corsair captains and their associates received the remaining slaves and cargo, while the soldiers, who boarded and captured the prey, divided the silver.

Salé, Tripoli, and Tunis also provided sanctuaries for the corsairs. When the Barbarossas returned to Tunis in 1504 with two papal galleys and a Spanish ship, there was much celebration. The wonder and astonishment that this noble exploit caused in Tunis, and even in Christiandom, is not to be expressed, nor how celebrated the name of Uruj, Reis was become from that moment…(Lane-Poole, page 36) More than 100 captives, all of them gentlemen, were paraded through streets, whilst the young daughters of the governor of Naples were despatched to Constantinople to serve in the Sultan’s harem.(Heere, page 181-182)

Aside from plundering captured ships and selling Christians into slavery, the Barbary corsairs enslaved many men, about two hundred per vessel, to oar their galleys. These slaves were manacled to benches on either side of the galley and forced to row while suffering the lash. Once a day they received a biscuit, oil, and vinegar. The conditions these men endured were terrible, but so were those aboard Christian galleys where captured Moors served...

Barbary Corsairs


This entry has been archived.
Comments are closed.

^ back to top ^

log in
Name:
Pass:

Register Forgot Your Password? My Account Re-send Confirmation (To log in, cookies must be enabled in your browser!)

► LGF Headlines

► Top 10 Comments

► Bottom Comments

► Recent Comments

► Tools/Info

► LGF Hits

► Slideshows

► Resources

► Never Forget

► Statistics

► Tag Cloud

► Contact

You must have Javascript enabled to use the contact form.
Your email:

Subject:

Message:


Messages may be published in our weblog, unless you request otherwise.
Tech Note:
Using the Contact Form

► News/Opinion

eBooks for Everyone at Barnes & Noble
More Partners

Compare Electricity Prices in your area. Texas Electricity is deregulated; you have the right to choose Texas Electric Rates from among many Texas Electric Companies.

The extreme end of a new dichotomy.