All this sudden increase in hate crime taqiyya and propaganda reeks of desperation.
We are getting to them.

You're not suggesting that CAIR might be making things up, are you?

I tawt I taw a taqiyyalope!

OT speaking of hate crimes against children

Saw Star Wars last night.

George Lucas should be horsewhipped. The film is so inappropriate for kids it is not even funny.

This and every other Star Wars film has been marketed to kids but this one is different- this is something that will cause younger children to have nightmares.

For those who have to take kids, here is how you can do it without spending a later fortune on psychiatry bills- Note Spoiler follows don't read further if you don't want know in advance what happens.

Tell your child there are images in the film that are very disturbing and you don't want them to have nightmares.

1. When Anikin duels Dookoo, as he gains the upper hand, cover your child's eyes, Anniken will cut off Dookoos hands and then decapitates him. About 20- seconds

2. When Anniken leads the attack on the Jedi Palace, cover your child's eyes as he gets past the entrance.

3. The final duel between Obi Wan and Anniken- when Obi Wan says "I have the upperhand" cover your child's eyes, Anniken will jump and three of his limbs will be severed, the injured mess will slide down into a lake of molten magma and catch fire. This is the one scene you really do not want your kids to see.

[obvious] What? CAIR makes shit up? [/obvious]

What's CAIRs position on that Zionist organ stealing boat?

and to put the American public on the defensive,

Man. They really don't have a clue.

But is it a 'hate crime' to want to LIVE? When rational assessment yields the objectively verifiable observation that "Muslims are taught that they have a right and a duty to KILL anyone THEY THINK is a non-believer!", then I assert it is NO hate crime to want to stop Muslims from killing me and my loved ones!

Wonkette gets a pie in the puss

"...false incidents embedded in its inflated “hate” figures"

Fake but accurate, anyone?

Do they work with CBS & Newsweek?

#1 Babba

We are getting to them.

That needs to be splattered on billboards all across the US, Israel, and all theaters of operation, wherever we are.

How insensitive for you to imply that our friend and brothers representing our loyal muslim american community are not anything but completely accurate and unbiased, i think i'll call newsweek and get to the bottom of this

/sarc off

The 1996 report included the arrest of Musa Abu Marzouk, a Hamas leader, and the trial of Omar Abdul-Rahman, the blind sheikh and ringleader of the foiled “Day of Terror” plot to blow up New York City landmarks.

Infidels putting Muslim terrorists on trial is a hate crime. Give me a f*cking break.

On topic, I recommend that all future discussions of CAIR reference that this special organization has had more senior leaders convicted of serious felonies that all other civil rights organizations combined!

It is asolutely contrasting--- imagine that Abe Foxman and six members of the ADL national board all going to prison.

Only CAIR. Only CAIR has had so many of its leaders imprisoned. They are a dishonest, miguided and dangerous organization whose senior leadership either has complete disregard for US law or are just coincidently they are the most unlucky organization in the US.

The story byline says it all, before you even waste your time reading:

(Reuters)

#1 BabbaZee

I don't know if that's despiration, or just efficiency. They're smart enough to know that media outlets like AP tend to get lazy and just take press releases as fact (just add "recent scientific study" and you too can be an AP writer), so they tailor make one.

OT #3 AG

Yeah, I heard that. Even Lucas said in early reports that he made this one to purposely be "not for kids".

#10 Intestinal Fortitude
Is this place not a "living" billboard, in a sense?
;-P

#15 bianchi_roadie
It's more than laziness, it's complicity...

I kind of see a streak of white-trashiness in CAIR trumping up its victimization bona fides. Like the 400 lb. woman who goes from trailer to trailer whining about how men have treated her, how the police are out to get her, how various merchants ripped her off... yadda yadda yadda ...

#1 BabbaZee

Be careful in concluding that we're getting to them. This may also represent a change in tactics on their part. Our society has a very soft underbelly; we steadfastly refuse to believe the worst about those who claim victimhood. Details rarely matter; if a hate crime is alleged and disproven, it still starts a dialogue about hate crimes, and that's a winning proposition for the victim-group.

We've seen the relative ineffectiveness of disproving the stories that people are subjected to via mass media and the institutions of the status quo (Rather lauded instead of being run out on a rail, etc.). Perhaps there needs to be a shift in tactics on our end as well.

You know....It seems to me that if groups like CAIR keep up with the victim games they're going to make a lot of rational people so sick of hearing how bad we are and how downtrodden muslims are that CAIR will actually succeed in inciting real hate crimes.

I'm not looking forward to that, but I wouldn't mind a little

#20 cont'd (something happened to my post)

...lot less 'sensitivity to' and 'tolerance of' their taqiyya crap!

so, wait... a special interest group is distorting the truth to try to prove its nonsensical point?

Its not, to me, news that CAIR is 'fudging' the details... I, and I hope most Americans with an IQ over 12, ignore anything from groups like CAIR, or for that matter, NOW, NAACP, AARP, or even political groups like the DNC. (Although I am an offical member of the DNC... I have my member card, with number, and I get regular emails from Howie "YEEARG" Dean. Death from Within, I say)

These groups exist to distort the truth to try to make a case for their small minority, in hopes that the MAJORITY will think that its a MAJOR problem... but by definition, problems with minorities are a small problem. thus the term minority.

be it religious, racial, age-based, or gender-based. My family and I have gone from Homelessness to selling a 215,000 dollar home in about 10 years time. was it hard? yes. Did it take ALOT of work and sacrifise? Yes.

did we ask for, or get, a handout to make life easier? no. we're Americans...

#19 Vercingetorix
Everything you say is true.
The Cult of the Perpetual Victim is a weapon.
However, I stand by my thought. We ARE getting to them.

Fear no man
Countenance no evil
Never abandon hope

CAIR counts reruns of "24" as potential hate crimes against Muslims. As well as most of the comments @ LGF.

#22 lancekates 5/19/2005 08:53AM PDT

did we ask for, or get, a handout to make life easier? no. we're Americans...

....Only in America.....way to go friend!

CAIR is the single greatest argument for wartime internment camps.

Spiney Norman (#12),

Infidels putting Muslim terrorists on trial is a hate crime. Give me a f*cking break.

Sure. It makes sense to them since sharia law trumps all "man made" law.

I'm just surprised CAIR hasn't included their own members that have been convicted of felonies. I guess that would be a little too obvious.

CAIR = Islamic victim culture in America. Boo-hoo.

Tap their phones, lojack their cars, close their financial accounts, or ship their stinking pieholes back home to the Islamic Paradise of:

1 Sandstorm Lane
Camel Dung Hill, Middle East 00666

Mohammid (spit be upon him) will welcome them with open, pedophile arms.

CAIR lies, people die. Thank you Daniel Pipes for showing CAIR for what they are. CAIR fear mongers by threatening to sue individuals. These individuals should counter-sue CAIR. Or is the justice system as corrupt in USA as it is in Canada?

ah, yes. using our laws against us, very smurt.

OT

I am sorry to do this but I am listening and watching cspan and some woman senator from MI was saying that she is from one of the Great Lakes states and they had lots of water and she said that this filibuster thing might affect their water. They, the Great Lakes'states might be forced to share "their water" with southern states if the filibuster option is done away with. Now look every one I am from Louisiana. We sell oil and gas. In an emergency I really believe I would never say that people in other states do not have any rights to our oil. If and when this great country ever faces such a crisis I believe we ALL would share. I cannot imagine Louisiana,Texas, Florida taking such an attiude. I wonder how the people of MI would feel if the oil producing states refused to share "our oil". And if every state is going to take the attitude of this congresssperson then what will happen to all of us? I mean doesn't the Great Lake states use oil and coal. If an emergency happens aren't we all in it together. I never heard anything like this spoken before.

# 26 hate speech! hate speech! You are now a CAIR statistic !

OT
Charles.

Any report on how well the billboard for Jihadwatch is doing?

The moslims are starting to move more aggressively. Looking at how far they can push before everything going boom in their faces.
It's not going to get any nicer, just nastier.

(WASHINGTON, D.C., 5/17/05) - CAIR today announced that it would offer free copies of the Quran to the American public in response to the recent controversy generated by a Newsweek article alleging that Islam's holy text was flushed down a toilet.

In response, CAIR is urging Muslims to help promote a better appreciation and understanding of their faith by donating to the "Explore the Quran" project. CAIR's "Explore the Quran" campaign encourages Muslim individuals, mosques and Islamic organizations to sponsor copies of the Quran, which will then be distributed to interested individuals nationwide.

The $25 packages include a copy of the Quran with Yusaf Ali's English translation and guidelines on how to handle the Quran.

"In today's climate of heightened religious sensitivities and cultural clashes, now is the time for people of all faiths to better acquaint themselves with Islam's sacred text, the Holy Qur'an," said CAIR Executive Director Nihad Awad. "The 'Explore the Qur'an' campaign allows the book to speak for itself and educate those of other faith traditions about the beautiful religion of Islam."

Go order your free copy of the Quran today. It is BBQ season after all.

CAIR is Govong Away Free Qurans to All Americans

Sure, CAIR plays the victim card, but they are much more sinister. This group has perfected the "Of course we are against terrorism, but you have to understand the root causes [=Israel]" line. They understand that liberal Western philosophy--our anxiety to demonstrate how tolerant and understanding we are of different cultures--is our weakness. They know the anti-American Left and media will overlook the criminal records of their leaders, because the Left and media believe that Republicans are the root cause of crime.

Really now, it wasn't really about desecration of the Koran. They envy plumbing.

Fox ran CAIR's stats...as fact...all evening the day they came out. I just emailed them Pipe's article. C'mon Fox, do some research!

#19 Vercing

Perhaps there needs to be a shift in tactics on our end as well.

What do you have in mind?

#34 Solomon X

Why do I have a feeling that this giveaway will be followed up by a 'visit' to 'see how you are doing' with the Qu'ran... (really to look for 'misuse' to report about to kill more people)

re #31 riverofpearls

Sen. Debbie Stabenow is a useless tool. She is a lap dog for Ted Kennedy and Barbara Boxer on the loonier end of the political spectrum.

It is an example of how the leftists will say anything to scare their constituents for the purpose of demonizing conservative policies (think seniors and Social Security). That is their nuclear option and they use it all the time.

By all means... let's insist on a ZERO TOLERANCE policy for all religious hate crimes, eh?

I mean, let's see: there's a whole freaking country that has raised the phrase "Death to America" to such heights as to be mumbled I imagine over the morning bowl of Pitaflakes.

Then there are the rather numbingly frequent examples of swastikas on flags, swastikas on tombstones, swastikas on church, chapel, synagogue and temple doors. There are burned flags, burned effigies of presidents, statesmen, there are torched GM jalopies, and spat-upon American products.

I suppose it might be dragging too much into the file ... but if we're really to insist on zero tolerance, then we must also remember Great Grandson van Gogh, the fatwa on Salman Rushdie, the live grenade tossed at Dubya in Georgia ... the Beslan pediatricide, the 237 marines in Lebanon, the 3,000 in NYC. We have to remember and receive worldwide apologies and obiesence from the anti-American, anti-Civilisational moslems who were responsible, and their goverments, their organizations.

We must.

For it really, really, really, really is about zero tolerance, ins't it? ZERO.

Ignorance begetting stupidity, fomenting irascibility, authorizing bigotry, abrogating civility, then targeting the infidel in word, deed, philosophy and theology?

ZERO TOLERANCE.

No less.

GoatGuy

#34 Solomon X

guidelines on how to handle the Quran

I'd love to see those guidelines, although I'm guessing they'll be something like

"Traditionally Muslims keep the Koran wrapped in cloth and stored, when not in use, on top of a wardrobe - indicating the high regard in which it is held".

I wish it would come with a disclaimer "Not to be flushed down the toilet".

#36 Deuce

Of course, it's OK for Mohammadens (and the Koran) to desecrate other religions.

One of their canards is feigning respect for Jews and Christians--"People of the book." But dig deeper and it turns out that a common Muslim view is that the bible was corrupted long ago. So what they are really saying is that they respect the original Jews and Christians, but that after the bible was corrupted a new prophet was needed to restore monotheism. That just happened to be Mohammed.

lancecakes

I'm sure they will. Now, if you have some lefty friends who think the [bigoted word]s are all noble and misunderstood, perhaps they could use a copy of the Quran. Sign them up and let them feel the love.

These people slammed commercial jets into the pentagon and the world trade center.

Be nice to them!

Old bumper sticker:
"NEWSWEEK lied, people died"
New bumper sticker:
"CAIR lied, again."

#44 Solomon X

I'm tempted to get one. then when it arrives, refuse the shipment and say that it looks like the box was in a truck that hauled pork products, and therefore this copy of the Qu'ran is tainted and no longer holy.

Maybe they'll declare jihad on UPS.

#39 lancekates

Do you really think the [bigoted word]s would do a follow up visit?

Oh. heart be stil.
Up here in the north country we don't get a lot of opportunity to meet [bigoted word]s personally.

Time to contact cair and get me a copy. Then hope like hell they show up at the door.

I'm constantly amazed by how tolerant of Islam Left-leaning atheists and agnostics are. They truly believe that Judaism and Christianity are bigger threats, and that Islam is simply a victim of Western bigotry. It doesn't occur to them that Judaism and Christianity have fully integrated Western values such as separation of church and state--which Islam fervently opposes.

40 Solomon X 5/19/2005 09:12AM PDT
re #31 riverofpearls

Sen. Debbie Stabenow is a useless tool. She is a lap dog for Ted Kennedy and Barbara Boxer on the loonier end of the political spectrum.

It is an example of how the leftists will say anything to scare their constituents for the purpose of demonizing conservative policies (think seniors and Social Security). That is their nuclear option and they use it all the time.

I understand she is a moonbat but she was elected by the people of MI. So I am wondering how many people agree with her. I did not mean to interrupt this thread. I was just astounded that this woman held the office of Congresswoman representing the people of her state. Haven't these fools figured out we stand or fall together? O yeah I forgot. Duh

Again, this was a set up.

There is absolutely NO WAY anyone is going to be able to prove that it was not written in after she received it on May 5 --before the riots and she gave a PRESS CONFERENCE on May 18th!

No devout Muslim would order a used book from a NON-Islamic source.

FROM ESPOSITO:

It is as close as you can get to the transcendent.... To use one analogy, the Koran is to Islam what Jesus is to Christianity," explains John Esposito, university professor at Georgetown University in Washington, D.C., in an interview.

The sacredness of the Koran to Muslims is expressed even in their relationship to its physical presence, Esposito says. "Pious Muslims will always put the Koran on top of everything else, in a special place; you don't put it under books or on the floor."
[Link: www.csmonitor.com...]

#42 Smit

I know I've posted this before, but here's the Pentagon guidelines given to our soldiers. Unbelieveable. Especially during war. You'll really like the "fragile piece of art" bit. /

The Pentagon does say an inadvertent mishandling of a Quran by a military police officer in late 2002 prompted a January 2003 memo outlining procedures for "respecting cultural dignity of the Qurans" and urging troops to "avoid handling or touching" them whenever possible.

"If handling can't be avoided, then clean gloves will be put on and two hands will be used in manners signaling respect. Handle as if a fragile piece of delicate art," the 2003 guidelines say, "and make sure a Quran is not placed in an offensive area, such as near a toilet."

[Link: transcripts.cnn.com...]

More "hate crime"

MPAC demands apology from Amazon.com

LOS ANGELES (AFP) - A US Muslim group demanded a public apology from online book retailer Amazon.com over the delivery of a desecrated Koran to a shocked customer.

Los Angeles-based graduate student Azza Basarudin told journalists she received the holy book with the words "Death to All Muslims" and a short, profanity-laced statement scrawled across the inside cover.

The second-hand Koran was ordered through Amazon.com from a third-party seller, Bellwether Books based in the eastern state of Pennsylvania.

But when it arrived, the words "Death to All Muslims" and a short, profanity-laced statement were scrawled across the inside cover, the recipient said. It was unclear when or by whom the book was defaced.

But Muslim lobby group, the Muslim Public Affairs Council, said that while Amazon had apologised for its part in delivering the desecrated Koran, it needed to do more.

"An apology isn't enough because an apology recognised that there was a mistake, made but we have received no guarantees that this mistake won't be repeated," MPAC spokeswoman Edina Lekovic told AFP.

"We don't believe that it was malicious or intentional by Amazon or its distributor, but you can't deliver defective products that have such detrimental emotional effects," she said.

MPAC is demanding Amazon conduct an investigation, issue a public condemnation of the desecration, establish a zero-tolerance policy toward sellers and employees and support MPAC's hate crime prevention programme.

Amazon.com's Patty Smith said there had never previously been a problem with Korans supplied by Bellwether and that Amazon had instructed its supplier to apply more stringent controls to second hand books in the future.

Smith also said that Amazon.com has apologised, refunded Basarudin's money, and sent out a copy of the Koran from Amazon and a gift certificate.

But Basarudin said she was still distressed over the shocking discovery.

Wanna bet this was staged by Basarudin? Notice how the apology, refund, and gift certificate that would be sufficient recompense for any regular person is not enough for MPAC.

Since cair is getting so bold and outrageous in their accusations and demands.

Mebbe they'll next be demanding that all westernized toilets be outlawed as they are outside the precepts of islam. And they're tired
of being insulted and having their feelings hurt being forced to use and look at these kufr objects.
Mebbe they should line up the manufacturers of western toilets and chop off their heads.

Wow there is some LGF filter code that transforms "muzz!es" to "muslims" in the comments.

Yeah, the Koran is sacred to Muslims.

But what's in the Koran? Does it teach personal responsibility and morality? Or does it teach Muslims they are victims and jihad is justified?

quark2 5/19/2005 09:26AM PDT

Mebbe they should line up the manufacturers of western toilets and chop off their heads.

Bite your tongue. Don't forget how impressionable these people are. They might actually decide they should do that. They believe they can kill anyone in the name of their god of death.

#31 River of Pearls

Stabnaw is using "scare tactics." It has nothing to do with the Filibuster. It is NOT a partisan issue which she is trying to make it into.

I live on that Great Lake (the big one) and there is a 5 year moraturium for one thing on selling the water which resulted because Ontario, CANADA wanted to sell Lake Superior Water OVERSEAS.

And, yes, it has already been discussed about piping it to areas in the United States which had water shortages if that were ever necessary.

The Great Lakes are regulated by a commission of members of ALL the surrounding states AND Ontario. It's not just US.

#57 riverofpearls 5/19/2005 09:33AM PDT

Mebbe they should line up the manufacturers of western toilets and chop off their heads.

...hey don't forget rib joints and kosher deli's

This seriously reminds me of how the gay and lesbian agenda did the same thing.

The constant pushing into the tiny little corners of society, making everyone accept what it is of that which they are, in a slow and under the radar type way, until eventually little things that they do now, that we don't like..

Become accepted by society.

This process, a kind of social chinese water torture, ususally takes us to the point, where we don't care anymore, then they slowly shove more into the larger cracks, and the process begins again, until finally, like same sex marriage, moderate muslim idealogy is accepted, including burka's for women, like in France.

Then comes the slow, manipulation of the kids in the inner city. It starts with this discrimination stuff. next you wan't be able to touch 'em.

Don't tell me it won't happen. NAMBLA would never have been out in the open like they are now 30 years ago. It's only a matter of time.

#60 scoreboard44
[Link: www.abidingtruth.com...]

#60 scoreboard44 5/19/2005 09:35AM PDT

....EXACTLY!....which is why I don't get BabbaZee's contention that they're on the run....looks to me as if we're getting "nibbled to death by ducks"!

#31 River of Pearls

Besides, she is talking about Lake Superior because that is the only one that has water to spare.

30 percent of Lake Michigan water comes from Superior and 80 percent of Erie (or Huron)does via the Soo locks twice a year.

None of the lower great lakes could keep their levels high enough without the water sent down from Superior.

Notice how Muslims have managed to get Western leaders and institutions (e.g. public schools) to put their official seal of approval on the Koran. Yet these same leaders and institutions distance themselves from the bible.

It would be unthinkable these days for anyone in a position of authority in a Western society to suggest a critical comparison of, say, the Torah and Koran. That sort of exercise used to be free speech. Now it's a hate crime.

#53 sandspur

Wanna bet this was staged by Basarudin? Notice how the apology, refund, and gift certificate that would be sufficient recompense for any regular person is not enough for MPAC.

Of course she staged it.

When will someone grow a pair and tell the extortionists at CAIR to f*ck off?

*MPAC*

#61
BabbaZee

Yeah. Hitler liked Little BOYS!

#31 riverofpearls

I live in Michigan. Don't touch our water.

53
Oh, duh, I should have scanned the threads when I signed on. (hides red face)

We have no water to spare. Lake Superior is clean and cold and deep and not to be touched.

You want our water, move here.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

IT'S OURS, ALL OUR'S!

#67 scoreboard44

Three very important things happened in Weimar Germany in the lead up to the Nazis taking power:

1) The forced acceptance of homosexuality and other "alternate lifestyles" on the mainstream culture
2) The outlawing of school prayer
3) The attempt to usurp, destroy or replace all vestiges and evidence and of the G-d of Abraham and His representatives (the Jews, firstly and most viciously..the Christians second.)

In order for totalitarian evil to rise in a society the Judeo-Christian ethic must be destroyed.

It's why G-d should matter, even to an athiest.

The Judeo-Chritian society is the only one in whch the athiest and pagan are free to worship rocks or nothing as they see fit.

Socialism/Communism requires that you worship the State, and Islam will behead you as an infidel.

I am now taking athiest and pagan applications for Crusade 2005 in the tent to my left....

;-)

#62 eschew_obfuscation

Fear no man
Countenace no evil
Never abandon hope

They ARE on the run.

CAIR is a hate crime

#68 scoreboard44
Me too --the big lake is 50 feet out my front door and we DO know how precious clean water is. The trade off is little industry or jobs up here.

#31 River of Pearls

More info:

A permit granted by the Province of Ontario to ship billions of gallons of Lake Superior's water to Asia flared into an international incident that for two weeks in May, catapulted normally forgotten Lake Superior into national news with a flood of headlines. To the Ontario Ministry of the Environment this was apparently just one more out of hundreds of permits. In February, a Sault Ste. Marie consulting firm, the Nova Group, filed a permit with the Ontario Ministry of the Environment asking permission to draw out up to 10,000,000 liters (2.6 million US gallons) per day for a maximum of 60 days each year for five years. [Link: www.superioralliance.org...]

THIS WAS DONE ALREADY:
U.S. Sen. Debbie Stabenow (D., Mich.) plans to introduce legislation Wednesday calling for a moratorium on Great Lakes water diversions and bulk exports until both nations finish reviewing the proposed agreement at the federal level. While there are currently no serious plans on the table to lay Alaska Pipeline-like waterlines across the continent to allow dry states such as California, Florida, Texas, Nevada, and Arizona to tap into the Great Lakes, there is a growing consensus that the idea is not so far-fetched. [Link: toledoblade.com...]

Why does anyone even bother with CAIR anymore?

We all know what they stand for, and what they shill for.

I'm surprised that America, which generally takes no crap from anyone would keep appeasing these shits. Freedom of speech aside, CAIRites seem to be dangerous to you guys!

#72 BabbaZee 5/19/2005 09:51AM PDT

Fear no man
Countenace no evil
Never abandon hope

They ARE on the run.

...doesn't your post #71 fly in the face of #72 given removal of school prayer, prohibition of benedictions before highschool football games, removal of G_d from the Pledge, and removal of any Judeo-Christian symbols from government property?

Such things continue to be sought (and successfully) by our friends at the ACLU...

I agree with your three lines above, but I don't see how they're "on the run"?

exaggeration, distortion, and dishonesty

The hell you say!

70 scoreboard44

There is some validity in what you say about leaving Superior alone. And I strongly oppose it being sold commerically overseas.

I grew up here but left for 35 years and moved back a few years ago. All my friends from the Chicago area were convinced I would be bored giving up all the conveniences.

True there are sacrifices but I remind them that I flush my toilet with water they pay a couple bucks for a small bottle. I have an artisian spring well!

#31 Riverofpearls

That Senator is an idiot. Are you sure she is a US Senator? If so, she SHOULD realize that the brouhaha about doing away with filibusters is only in the case of judicial (and possibly other) nominations. WTF does that have to do with water?

Wow, talk about moonbat propaganda. I wonder how many idiots will nod their head and say, "see, ther Rethuglicans ARE evil."

The level of misinformation and outright lies coming from the Left is really starting to annoy me, ably abetted by the MSM.

Does this qualify as a "hate crime"?

Female veejay who angered mullahs is shot dead

@57 riverofpearls

I wasn't being facetious this time. These maroons would actually do this if they could get by with it.

As to the water situation. Why are we exporting water overseas? And as to pipelining water to drier states, these states need to learn to be more conservative in water usage. Take Arizona for instance, instead of realizing it's an arid area, and should be lived in as such, they foolishly dig lakes for recreation, wasting precious water for play. That is unjustifiable.
They've used up all of the closer water, and now want to abuse the water from other location

79 Semper Gumbi
#31 Riverofpearls

Exactly, they are only exempting judicial appointments from the fillibuster.

And the Great Lakes water is regulated at a FEDERAL level which includes agreements with Canada and would never be entirely in control of the US congress anyway.

The moraturium was to stop CANADA from selling it overseas.

After 9/11 I heard J. Zogby on his Cable Show, instruct Muslims to REPORT everything as a "Hate Crime". He instructed his Muslim audience that "dirty looks" come under the definition of a Hate Crime. So....thats what we have here....Cair probably encourages the same thing.

This is totally completely the OPPOSITE of how the ADL handles these 'reports'. First and Formost: The ADL DISCOURAGES Hate Crime Reporting. (it comes under.."whats new") IF you decide to report something IT BETTER BE REALLY REALLY BAD --- REALLY REALLY UGLY..You better have reams of PROOF for your report. And you better have nothing in your past that haters can use to minimize your claim.

Most of the time..we know NOT to call up the ADL unless there is serious threats of violence, with witnesses, or actual violence. Otherwise..the ADL is busy with problems of life and death and you arent supposed to clog up their day with stuff you hate but you can live with.

#76 eschew_obfuscation
Evil is "on the run" from good from the get. Only our reticence to ride out and meet them can give them power.
Yes this is all happpening, yes they have power.
Yes many are "on the run" from our side.
But I will not, I can not empower them by being one of the doom-sayers.
I believe in the power of intention (kavanah)
So I will say again -
They are desperate
They are on the run.

TO ARMS, men of the West!

#80 Ringo the Gringo
Thread-worthy story.

81 quark2

We --the US --is NOT exporting water overseas.

The US took efforts to stop CANADA from doing that.

There is a moraturium for the US and Canada to work out an agreement to NOT sell Great Lakes water overseas.

NO ONE is doing it. Canada issued a permit in 1998 to a commerical enterprise to do that. The US STRONGLY objected.

#84 B-Z

I wish it were true...

#84 BabbaZee 5/19/2005 10:08AM PDT

O.K....I'll buy/support that!

I think I was reading you as a little naive (admittedly the first time I've had such evil thoughts about you!) when what I was seeing was really determination and faith....

You go girl!

%56 Ibrodsky

But what's in the Koran? Does it teach personal responsibility and morality? Or does it teach Muslims they are victims and jihad is justified?

Must be, because doing things like stuffing dead bodies with TNT to use as a weapon, attacking fellow muslums, and even bringing war to women and children are (or, were...) disallowed.

Must have got a special dispensation from the Grand Mufti....

Galahad, hate your neighbor
Galahad, cheat a friend,
Do it in the name of heaven
You can justify it in the end...

#87 mustrum
It is.
Not everything is as it seems.
We MUST believe in our strength, we must lead with certainty in this, the most righteous and penultimate of causes.
They can not and they will not defeat us, ever...not even if I am the last one left alive who believes in it.
May we merit deliverance from the strong arm of the Lord!
Selah!

;-)

#88 eschew_obfuscation
Understandable, and thank you ;-)

81 quark2

Also there are no plans to pipeline it anywhere to the drier states. The idea has been suggested but it would never be implemented without serious studies as to the long-term impact.

Trust me. The Great Lakes are crucial to the economy in many areas because there is little else. Anything that would be detrimental would never be acceptable.

I agree with you about Arizona. I couldn't believe the constant use of sprinkler systems to keep green grass growing especially on the golf courses which attract retirees to move there.

#2
I am late to the thread but

I tawt I taw a taqiyyalope!

needs to be on t-shirts, bumperstickers, posters, with its own cartoon character!

ROFLMAO!

Does Jayson Blair still work for the NY Times?

Read what they say about the CAIR study.

The organization said it verified the legitimacy of a reported crime before including it in its annual study

Source: May 12, 2005 NY Times
Should I even look for a correction?

#94 Crimsonfisted
[Link: www.vinylfrontier.com...]

@92 Nancy

Indeed! :)

We have wasted too much of our natural resources in this country. It needs to stop.

@96 BabbaZee

*LMAO!

#95 axiom

Does that really account for any more than "we checked ourselves?"

And this satified the NYT enough for them to not only report the report, but to include this worthless QA/QC claim.

Does anyone but me ever wonder if anything we've ever read at any time in a newspaper has a passing acquaintance with the truth?

Want to witness a Muslim hate crime? Just go on down to your local mosque this Friday and take in the noon prayers. The faithful will be treated to a peptalk on what to hate for the next week and how the Koran justifies it. If you dont speak Arabic, you will just have to take their word for it that the Friday rant is about peace and love and hoping that all the world will come to accept Allahs guidance and submit to Islam.

How about this story for contrast:

The United States is held in higher esteem in Southeast Asian nations, including predominantly Islamic countries, following American tsunami relief efforts in January, U.S. diplomats to the region said Monday.

"It was an example of soft power that absolutely contrasted with any amount of Arab rhetoric."

#96 Babbazee
I love it! I have seen the image before but didn't make the connection with the taqiyyalope (and I have seen the term before too). Thanks for connecting the dots. toooooooooooooo funnnnnnnny.

Arguing that CAIR's list of hate crimes is unreliable is a mistake because it grants the false premise that there is such a thing as a hate crime, i.e., a crime that is distinct from a non-hate crime. That in turn grants that the Islamists are _right_ to do what they are doing.

All crimes are crimes of hate. People don't murder, rape, rob etc. out of love. They do it out of hatred for something, whether it's themselves, others, a situation, life as such, or whatever.

To make a distinction between crimes based on the perpetrator's state of mind is just one short step from making that state of mind itself a crime. Making a certain state of mind a crime is exactly what Islamists want to do. Specifically, they want to make the state of mind consisting of non-belief in Islam a crime, and use that as a justification for murdering or enslaving people with that state of mind.

Accepting the concept of a "hate crime" legitimizes the very thing that makes Islamists such a threat.

Mark Peters

Schlachthaus fünf

Tis no "crime" to hate the Muslims.

Let these stupid "hate crime" laws be enforced or not, I know for a FACT that come Judgement Day, God will NOT hold my hatred of Muslims against me.

#103 IdeaLover

That's exactly right. They're doing it in Eurabia, and it's had some success; so the next logical step is to bring it to America. I sent an e to President Bush yesterday stating that if he doesn't hold the Muslims accountable for their own riot and murder on account of something considered here as freedom of expression (Newsweek thing), then he might as well flush the First Amendment down the toilet. Most might think that emailing the Pres doesn't do any good, but we have to get our voices heard, and the MSM ain't gonna do it. We should be emailing every day...to the Pres...to Congress...to local newspapers...to O'reilly...to Hannity...to Dobbs, etc. I've been doing it every day now for about two weeks. Before it was periodically, now it's to someone everyday. I email Charle's articles with the comments as well, if applicable, for reference. It's a start.

8 scoreboard44 5/19/2005 09:44AM PDT
#31 riverofpearls
I live in Michigan. Don't touch our water.
68 scoreboard44 5/19/2005 09:44AM PDT
#31 riverofpearls
I live in Michigan. Don't touch our water.

I am sorry for not getting back to you sooner. I fixed lunch. Suffed green peppers, fresh squash w/onions, fresh potatoes oven fried, corn bread, and for dessert watermelon and pineapple chunks.

I am not interested in your water. I live on the gulf of mexico. If ever there is such a drought and the heat is so hot all the good water holes dry up to a dust bed, then the gulf is going to start boiling. And you know what happens to the gulf when it starts boiling. Water rises and it will drift to shore and rain. If it gets really hot then hurricanes start blowing and they bring rain. Lots of rain. I know every one thinks the bubbas are stupid but I can assure you they know how to dig a hole in the ground to catch all that nice distilled water. I will have gasoline to put in my car to get inland to some friends. But you just sit on that cube of ice and watch you family and friends freeze to death.

Wait a minute! TWENTY CASES IN '04?!? I have had more hateful thoughts of Islam's Ambassador's with a cup of coffee. Considering what their message is, they should be celebrating the low number of hate crime cases. That actually speaks volumes about the true nature of our melting-pot society, that we don't take mob vengeance against our enemies, deserved or not. I stop for lunch and read this self-adoring crap, what useless idiots.

Perhaps it is time to recognise the fact that Islam will use any sleight to advantage.
The standard response should be to ask what a Christian would expect in a similar incident and when Muslims demand more, politely remind them that they are being excessive about it.
The no insult of Islam for any reason whatever mantra has got to be challenged for what it is. Namely, intolerance of any and all other religions.

JFM

For people that like to PRETEND there isn't any such thing as real Hate Crimes..heres my fantasy on how to bring home the reality of Hate Crimes.

You "escort" this person, denying that there is such a thing as Hate Crimes, to Auschwitz..you drag em by the hair from one end of Auchwitz to the other, you throw em in one of the Buildings, with the SAME type of "Food" and "Water" and dressed in the same clothes as the Auschwitz Inmates. Leave them in there for 2 weeks (not 2 years) and then we will have the discussion of wether there are REAL Hate Crimes or NOT.

If he still doesn't GET IT.. theres another agenda going on there.

#34

Haven't there been reports of edited korans being distributed in PR campaigns like these? Books with the naughty bits taken out?

#75 mustrum

We all know what they stand for, and what they shill for

That's the problem. Everybody doesn't know what CAIR stands and shills for. Here in Columbus, OH, they are much respected and are a go-to for advice by politicians and academia. It's sickening, but it's true.

#107 RiverofPearls

Mmmmmmmmmmmmm. Can I come over for lunch? lol

riverofpearls
Well, I won't share my mudbugs with them. Besides the Mississippi begins to bubble out of the ground in Minnesota.
Have any of you checked out Powerline lately? Let the boycott of Pepsico.com products begin.

#108 No2Liberals
Wait a minute! TWENTY CASES IN '04?!?

Actually, they are claiming over a hundred (which ain't no big deal in my book), and Pipes picked out those 20 to talk about. Compare that to over 900 against Jews.

#111 Shrike

Haven't there been reports of edited korans being distributed in PR campaigns like these? Books with the naughty bits taken out?

Yes, I read that, too, but I can't remember where so I don't have a link. It had something to do with public schools getting the watered down versions in cultural day activities, I think.

ciaospirit- thanks for the clarification, should have read more closely. So a hundred! Then I could generate that many hateful thoughts over a tall glass of iced tea. So does CAIR leadership visit their founding members in jail?

114 no2liberals 5/19/2005 11:06AM PDT

Well, I won't share my mudbugs with them. Besides the Mississippi begins to bubble out of the ground in Minnesota.
Have any of you checked out Powerline lately? Let the boycott of Pepsico.com products begin.

I read powerline. Already told everyone I know to boycott Pepsico. I meant to google pepsico. to find out what they own. But then the stupid honorable senator from MI started her tirade about "their water".

PS Never ever tell anyone about mudbugs. Capt Mike was in Fort Polk in spring with his company. One of his men had family there. Anyway they got a whole sack of bugs. Mike told me some guys had no idea what they were but they tried them anyway. They were sucking the heads right away. Don't tell anyone else please. Keep your best fishing hole to yourself.

It is simple mathmatics.

With small numbers, you can more easily claim huge percentages in changes. (even if all the "crimes" were true)

Same thing as the claim Islam is the "fastest growing" religion in the USA. Well, it might well be, if you're talkign percentages. If I form my own religion and talk you into joining, why our religion has doubled in size this year!

#118 riverofpearls- (whisper volume) oops, my bad, I forgot it wasn't just you and I talking. Think I need etouffe therapy.

OT: Hamas Wonder Boy (Jerusalem Post)

Seedo said most of his lectures focus on the issue of death, particularly the death of the prophet Muhammad, as well as several topics related to the lifetime of the prophet. "I often talk about loving the prophet Muhammad and the way a good Muslim woman should behave," he explained

King of Jordon, Elie Wiesel & Richard Gere at Jordanian Nobel Peace Prize gathering Bill Clinton will join them today.

113 ciaospirit 5/19/2005 11:04AM PDT
#107 RiverofPearls

Mmmmmmmmmmmmm. Can I come over for lunch? lol

No. There will be no more sharing with others who are hungry, or thirsty, or in need . It is a every one for himself world. New rules. New world order according to the stupid honorable congresswoman from MI.

Always
riverofpearls

#117 no2liberals

Here are the actual numbers. What a joke. Like RENNA says, you can make small numbers look like big percentages even if all were true. And, of course, all is not true.

Specifically, the number of “anti-Muslim hate crimes in the United States” has gone up dramatically: from 42 cases in 2002, to 93 cases in 2003, to 141 in 2004.

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

#122 riverofpearls

Tears...sniffle...sniffle...tears...sigh

120 no2liberals 5/19/2005 11:19AM PDT
#118 riverofpearls- (whisper volume) oops, my bad, I forgot it wasn't just you and I talking. Think I need etouffe therapy.

Again do not let others know if you have a very good fishing hole or hot woman who can cook and looks good.

Regard
riverof pearls

#110 Vickie

No, there is no need for laws against "hate crimes."

If you drag someone to Auschwitz you are kidnapping them. That's already a felony.

The misguided idea of "hate crimes" says that somehow a crime is worse if it is motivated by hate. As if a crime is somehow less worse if motivated by greed or jealousy...

The unintended consequence of misguided "hate crime" legislation is that it has created a contest between various minorities to see who can exact the greatest revenge. Predictably, "hate crimes" have evolved past crime and into the nebulous region of things like "dirty looks." In essence, "hate crime" laws make it a crime to think hateful thoughts, which even the most determined police state can't prevent.

ciaospirit- Wow! That's alot. Such hatred. Such viciousness. Such reprehensible behavior. I think I'll have shrimp stuffed pork chops for dinner, and contemplate the fate of Islam.

With macque cheaux.

All Aboard
HA HA HA HA

AIE AIE AIE AIE AIE

riverofpearls- per our new instructions for life in America, I share nothing. Not even my recipes, and especially not my honey.

#129- Crazy, but that's how it goes.

Another serious problem with "hate crime" legislation: unless you believe the state can read minds, there is no way to be certain what the perpetrator was thinking/feeling.

It is the height of folly to believe a murder committed out of greed or without apparent emotion is any less of a crime than a murder committed out of "hate."

The ultimate goal here seems to be to intimidate people from criticizing various groups for fear they will be charged with a crime.

Religion of Stupid Rules!

Random Fatwa of the Day (from Ask the Imam):

Q. Is it ok if I offer my NAFIL salaat, HOLDING the Qur’an in my RIGHT HAND and reading it, while still in the prayer? (as I have not memorized big soorahs of the Quraan)

A. According to the Hanafi Madhab, if the one who performs Salaat while looking into the Qur’aan is a Haafiz, the Salaat will be valid. If not, then his Salaat will not be valid. (al-Hidaaya vol.1 pg.32 – Rasheediya; Bahr al-Raaiq vol.2 pg.15; Halabi Kabeer pg.448)

However, if he has to hold the Qur’aan in his hands, then due to this being classified as ‘Amal-e-Kathir’ (extra foreign action), the Salaat will break. As a rule, whenever one in Salaat does any action contrary to his Salaat, which entails a lot of movements, e.g. using both hands, etc. the Salaat becomes invalid.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Ml. Muhammad ibn Moulana Haroon Abassoomar
FACULTY OF SPECIALTY IN HADITH SCIENCES

Are there any rules in Christianity about prayers being invalid if you don't hold the Bible right?

128 no2liberals 5/19/2005 11:35AM PDT
With macque cheaux.

WOW

Now to tie all this together.
Muslims do not believe in sharing with others. There are people in ME who are so wealthy and they do not share with their own people. Which brings us to the honorable congresswoman from MI. Americans have and hopefully will continue to help and share with each other. This philosophy of not taking care of one's own people is anti american. The very idea that a US congresswoman would state on the floor of the US Congress that one state would not share their abundance in a natural resource with other states in need is unamerican. This is the UNITED States

Once again, Islamo-fascists are exploiting our stupidity. They look at "hate crime" legislation and realize they can use it to shut down criticism of Islam.

OT: Saudi Arabians Invited to the US (US Consulate)

to help applicants to avoid the summer heat, visitors will be welcomed through the gate individually from 7:00 am to wait inside the U.S. Consulate.

I wonder if they're handing out popsickles too? Qatar to Develop Nuclear [The Peninsula]

Doha: In a significant development, Qatar has been given a go-ahead by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) to develop nuclear energy for peaceful purposes.

#132 ibrodsky

The ultimate goal here seems to be to intimidate people from criticizing various groups for fear they will be charged with a crime.

Bingo! And already happening. People may not be going to jail, but they are being demoted at their jobs, ripped apart in the press, and losing their jobs.

#133 cato the elder- you should ask the 'other' imam.
[Link: iowahawk.typepad.com...]

Ibrodsky: Never mind the UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES..Jews know that there is such a thing as a HATE CRIME. Ask Daniel Pearl. (dont give a damn how his wossy and frieghtened parents try to pretend it isnt)

As for KIDNAPPING...and dragging haters and deniers of Hate thru Auchwitz..G-d forbid a Jew even THINK of doing something violent..right? We cant have THAT...can we? Jews..actually gettin agressive...NOOOOOOOOOO....WOOOOOOO...Usin Violence....No way.

Well its my Opinion that it is...time for Jews to learn from others. Violence seems to "get the job done" or didnt you notice that there is going to be a NEW PALISTINIAN STATE when in fact there is NO proof anywhere that there are a people, called Palistinians, that are separate and apart from generic Arabs of the area. No Proof in the Ground..no proof in the genes...no separate language or skills...BUPKAS... THRU Violence these "fairy tale" people got a State of their own.

Am I good an angry about this made up..phony, dedicated to destroy Israel-- NEW PAL State? YES..Am I angry at the newest immigrants to the US from the Islamic World, so far contributing very little to the US..DIRECTING all sorts of Policies in the US. YES...I am angry about this and the DIRECTION the US is going.

CAIR *is* a hate crime.

#139 Vicki

there is going to be a NEW PALISTINIAN STATE when in fact there is NO proof anywhere that there are a people, called Palistinians, that are separate and apart from generic Arabs of the area. No Proof in the Ground..no proof in the genes...no separate language or skills...

Ain't it the truth! They don't even have the letter "P" in their language.

#134-riverofpearls
Joking aside, your point is needle sharp. Spent every summer and holiday on my Grandmother's farm in Webster Parish, La., and the quiet and simple dignity of country folk is instilled in me. During the depression, she packed lunch for all six of her children before they went to school, and always added a second sandwich for them to share with classmates that were worse off than them. That was, and in my mind, still is, America.

#132 ibrodsky

there is no way to be certain what the perpetrator was thinking/feeling.

Which is exactly what CAIR is exploiting here by including almost any crime against a Muslim.

It also floors me that they include arresting and trying Muslims for crimes as a crime.

#135 ibrodsky 5/19/2005 11:47AM PDT
Once again, Islamo-fascists are exploiting our stupidity. They look at "hate crime" legislation and realize they can use it to shut down criticism of Islam.

That is why these people need to be removed from this country. The culture of the United States is Judeo-Christian. The Bible teaches us to share with others. We have religious freedoms yes but we also are free to criticize each others religion. If Children are molested by any group we expose people who do such things and demand they be punished. If Jimmy Swaggert commits adultery we expose this and give him the opportunity to repent and get the thing straight. All religious groups have been criticized and called to task. But muslims accept no criticism. Any remark by any citizen against islam can bring threats of death. Any religion that says it is a religion of peace and then sits and remains quiet about the murder of innocent people and then does not allow for criticism or scrutiny needs to go.
If you live among us you must accept our criticisms. If we are wrong in our perception then prove we are. Do not use threats and intimidation on us. This is really what sticks in my craw.

riverofpearls

#131 no2liberals

'zackly!

Millions of people livin as foe....s,
Maybe it's not to late
To learn how to love
And forget how to hate

naaah... too late for that! I am learning to hate more and more every single day.

Ciao: Ever once in a while..I just have HAD IT..for the day. This is one of these days.

I must have talked about Amazon and their "Reviews" of Books written by Jews..on Jewish Subjects --On Israel..etc etc. six? months ago here? (something like that) Tho I complained about the amount of trashing of Jews on Amazon, I never wrote Amazon and DEMANDED an Apology. ***I should have. What I think I did was to ask people to go there and write their OWN Review when they object to a nasty bigoted review that they see.

If that Islamic woman sues Bozos..Ill think about doing the same. Bezoz allows and facilities trashing of Jews and Israel on his site in the Review Section. Just as bad TO ME, as finding a book with unflattering matter written in it.

-------------
C:
There ARE no Palistinians.. This is a MADE UP PEOPLE. They achieved their goal by VIOLENCE. VIOLENCE WORKED. Take Note Jews.

#145-m
Wish Randy hadn't died.

#147

No doubt.

CAIR is using the playbook of Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton (remember Tawana Brawley), and others in the hate-baiting business.

I think Americans have every right to hate Muslims that commit heinous murder, and those Muslims who remain silent on condemning it.

#149 ploome

The original Randy Rhodes...

not dumbass...

CAIR. The Muslim world's ACLU.

#149-ploome
Randy ......(?)

#151 --my bad.

The original Randy Rhoads.

145 m 5/19/2005 12:06PM PDT

naaah... too late for that! I am learning to hate more and more every single day.

I don't think hate is the way. I think we ALL need to sit down and get some rules straight. I love Catholics, Baptists, Pentecostals, Jews, Buddhists, etc. But I expect ALL of these people to give account to the whole community if members of their group decide to go on a jihad and start killing the rest of us. Hey you can believe anything you like as long as you do not attempt to destroy our safety. Muslims do not understand this concept. Baptist know they can't start killing Pentecostals because they don't agree with their doxology. Muslims do not and will not understand this basic concept. All religions in this country try to win converts. But our method is to explain our beliefs to others. We win others by living what we believe. If you disagree with muslim beliefs they don't try to convert with words and ideas and actions. They honestly believe they should kill you if you disagree with them.

#154-m
Thought ploome was goofing with us, right, not that POS.

Why Islam is disrespected

#155 riverofpearls

If you disagree with muslim beliefs they don't try to convert with words and ideas and actions. They honestly believe they should kill you if you disagree with them.

And for some reason that leads me to hate. Either they need to change their thought pattern, or they'll deal with the consequences.

carl the elder- Haven't heard back. Did you ask the 'other' imam yet?

#160 ploome

Then we're even. I have no idea who Randy Newman is :O)

160 ploome- Randy Newman has made some great music. Randy Rhoades was a guitar 'god' of the highest order. Died very young while goofing in an airplane. His plane, he wasn't the pilot, sliced through Ozzie's tour bus, then hit a house, and killed all aboard. The song m was referring to was 'Crazy Train', you'll hear it over the PA at baseball parks when the bases are loaded.

#139 Vickie

Until someone invents a mind-reading machine... "hate crime" laws are invoked selectively to protect specific groups and delegitimize anyone who dares criticize them.

This worked in our favor at first. But there are far more Muslims than Jews in the world, and Muslims are quickly learning how to exploit the gray areas in our laws.

If there were no "hate crime" laws murder would be murder and there would be little opportunity for confusion. Muslims have successfully painted themselves as the victims of a variety of dubious crimes, which they then use to explain or even justify real crimes committed by Muslims.

Thus, many Muslims argue that slamming airplanes into office buildings and blowing up restaurants full of Jews are merely the wrong responses to the thought crimes and conspiracies the US and Jews have committed against Muslims.

I also oppose the creation of a state for the phony "Palestinians." And I have long believed that Israel will only have peace when it deals its Arab enemies the total defeat they so richly deserve.

But those positions have nothing to do with my belief that "hate crime" laws are misguided and ultimately lead to further injustice. The fact that such injustice is an unintended consequence is of no consolation--particularly since it is a predictable consequence. Real minorities are best protected by scrupulously fair laws and proportionate punishments.

The Palestinians want their own country. There's just one thing about that:
There are no Palestinians. It's a made up word. Israel was called Palestine for two thousand years. Like "Wiccan," "Palestinian" sounds ancient but is really a modern invention Before the Israelis won the land in the 1967 war,Gaza was owned by Egypt, the West Bank was owned by Jordan, and there were
no "Palestinians."
>
As soon as the Jews took over and started growing oranges as big as basketballs, what do you know, say hello to the "Palestinians," weeping for their deep bond with their lost "land" and "nation."

So for the sake of honesty, let's not use the word "Palestinian" any more to
describe these delightful folks, who dance for joy at our deaths until
someone points out they're being taped. Instead, let's call them what they
are: "Other Arabs Who Can't Accomplish Anything In Life And Would Rather
Wrap Themselves In The Seductive Melodrama Of Eternal Struggle And Death."

I know that's a bit unwieldy to expect to see on CNN. How about this, then:
Adjacent Jew-Haters." Okay, so the Adjacent Jew-Haters want their own
country. Oops, just one more thing. No, they don't. They could've had their
own country any time in the last thirty years, especially two years ago at
Camp David. But if you have your own country, you have to have traffic
lights and garbage trucks and Chambers of Commerce, and, worse, youactually have to figure out some way to make a living.

That's no fun. No, they want what all the other Jew-Haters in the region
>want: Israel. They also want a big pile of dead Jews, of course --that's
where the real fun is -- but mostly they want Israel.
Why? For one thing, trying to destroy Israel - or "The Zionist Entity" as
their textbooks call it -- for the last fifty years has allowed the rulers
of Arab countries to divert the attention of their own people away from the
fact that they're the blue-ribbon most illiterate, poorest, and tribally
backward on God's Earth, and if you've ever been around God's Earth, you
know that's really saying something.

It makes me roll my eyes every time one of our pundits waxes poetic about
the great history and culture of the Muslim Mid east. Unless I'm missing something, the Arabs haven't given anything to the world since Algebra,and, by the way, thanks a hell of a lot for that one.

Chew this around and spit it out: Five hundred million Arabs; five Million
Jews. Think of all the Arab countries as a football field, and Israel as a
pack of matches sitting in the middle of it. And now these same folks swear
that if Israel gives them half of that pack of matches,Everyone will be
pals..

damn i love dennis miller-

cont'd

Really? Wow, what neat news. Hey, but what about the string of wars to
obliterate the tiny country and the constant din of rabid blood oaths to
drive every Jew into the sea? Oh, that? We were just kidding.
>
My friend Kevin Rooney made a gorgeous point the other day: Just reverse the
Numbers. Imagine five hundred million Jews and five million Arabs. I was
stunned at the simple brilliance of it Can anyone picture the Jews
strapping belts of razor blades and dynamite to themselves? Of course not.

Or marshaling every fiber and force at their disposal for generations to
drive a tiny Arab State into the sea?Nonsense. Or dancing for joy at the
murder of innocents? Impossible. Or spreading and believing horrible lies
about the Arabs baking their bread with the blood of children?

Disgusting.

No, as you know, left to themselves in a world of peace, the worst Jews
would ever do to people is debate them to death.

Mr. Bush, God bless him, is walking a tightrope. I understand that with
vital operations in Iraq and others, it's in our interest, as Americans, to
try to stabilize our Arab allies as much as possible, and, after all, that
can't be much harder than stabilizing a roomful of super models who've just
had their drugs taken away.

However, in any big-picture strategy, there's always a danger of losing
moral weight. We've already lost some. After September 11th our president
told us and the world he was going to root out all terrorists and the
countries that supported them. Beautiful. Then the Israelis, after months
and months of having the equivalent of an Oklahoma City every week (and then
every day) start to do the same thing we did, and we tell them to show
restraint.

If America were being attacked with an Oklahoma City every day, we would all
very shortly be screaming for the administration to just be done with it
and kill everything south of the Mediterranean and east of the Jordan.

Please feel free to pass this along to your friends Walk in peace! Be Happy!

I should have ended my last post this way:

Real minorities are best protected by scrupulously fair laws and proportionate punishments. Everything else is just an attempt to game the system.

158 m 5/19/2005 12:25PM PDT

Yes. I know. Consequences are coming.

#139 Vickie

THRU Violence these "fairy tale" people got a State of their own.

They don't have it yet.

Please make an effort to be accurate.

What, CAIR lying? How outrageous! They are a beacon of truth and moderation that all Americans should respect.
/typical non-partisan Beltway blather mode off

#146 Vickie

They achieved their goal by VIOLENCE. VIOLENCE WORKED. Take Note Jews.

Violence is your suggestion?

#164 ploome

I didn't. But I sure do now :O) Thanks!

#146 Vicki

Ever once in a while..I just have HAD IT..for the day. This is one of these days.

Had to leave for a while. Now that I'm back, I don't blame you. Sometimes the hypocracy is unbearable, especially when history and every reference will show that there is no such thing as the "Palestinians". We had a poster that used to call them the "Balestinians". lol
I think you should write to Amazon and make a fuss. Send me some of their crap. I'll be happy to write as well.

OT:

Red Cross says detainees at Guantanamo allege Koran "mishandling."

This isn't over yet, folks. The MSM will run with this, trying to salvage Newsweek's "fake, but accurate" story. My guess is that nobody is going to be pointing out that the allegations come right out of the Jihadi Playbook, page 4, Column 3, Paragraph 7.

Red Cross

#55 Solomon X 

Wow there is some LGF filter code that transforms "muzz!es" to "muslims" in the comments.

Gee, I'm in an experimental mood... What happens if I type "I prefer to let the muzz!e of my 45 speak for me."

"I prefer to let the muzzle of my 45 speak for me."

cathy :-)

Yes, we need to use more violence to defeat Islamism.

Note that there is a growing campaign to discredit and even condemn the WW II Allies for the destruction of Dresden, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki.

Islamo-fascists such as CAIR know our squeamishness about doing what has to be done to win is our Achilles' heel.

Eventually, they will detonate a nuke in NYC. By then, they will have our leaders saying "We had it coming" and "What can we do to assuage you?"

We will respond to this act of genocide by getting the UNSC to pass a toughly worded resolution and promising to redouble efforts to "solve" the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Needed: leaders who understand we must speak to Islamo-fascists in language they can understand.

146 Vickie

Numbers 24 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society

Numbers 24
1 Now when Balaam saw that it pleased the LORD to bless Israel, he did not resort to sorcery as at other times, but turned his face toward the desert. 2 When Balaam looked out and saw Israel encamped tribe by tribe, the Spirit of God came upon him 3 and he uttered his oracle:
"The oracle of Balaam son of Beor,
the oracle of one whose eye sees clearly,

4 the oracle of one who hears the words of God,
who sees a vision from the Almighty, [a]
who falls prostrate, and whose eyes are opened:

5 "How beautiful are your tents, O Jacob,
your dwelling places, O Israel!

6 "Like valleys they spread out,
like gardens beside a river,
like aloes planted by the LORD,
like cedars beside the waters.

7 Water will flow from their buckets;
their seed will have abundant water.
"Their king will be greater than Agag;
their kingdom will be exalted.

8 "God brought them out of Egypt;
they have the strength of a wild ox.
They devour hostile nations
and break their bones in pieces;
with their arrows they pierce them.

9 Like a lion they crouch and lie down,
like a lioness—who dares to rouse them?
"May those who bless you be blessed
and those who curse you be cursed!"
Balaam answered Balak, "Did I not tell the messengers you sent me, 13 'Even if Balak gave me his palace filled with silver and gold, I could not do anything of my own accord, good or bad, to go beyond the command of the LORD -and I must say only what the LORD says'? 14 Now I am going back to my people, but come, let me warn you of what this people will do to your people in days to come."

Balaam's Fourth Oracle
15 Then he uttered his oracle:
"The oracle of Balaam son of Beor,
the oracle of one whose eye sees clearly,
16 the oracle of one who hears the words of God,
who has knowledge from the Most High,
who sees a vision from the Almighty,
who falls prostrate, and whose eyes are opened:

17 "I see him, but not now;
I behold him, but not near.
A star will come out of Jacob;
a scepter will rise out of Israel.
He will crush the foreheads of Moab,
the skulls of [c] all the sons of Sheth. [d]

18 Edom will be conquered;
Seir, his enemy, will be conquered,
but Israel will grow strong.

19 A ruler will come out of Jacob
and destroy the survivors of the city."

Balaam's Final Oracles
20 Then Balaam saw Amalek and uttered his oracle:
"Amalek was first among the nations,
but he will come to ruin at last."
21 Then he saw the Kenites and uttered his oracle:
"Your dwelling place is secure,
your nest is set in a rock;

22 yet you Kenites will be destroyed
when Asshur takes you captive."

23 Then he uttered his oracle:
"Ah, who can live when God does this? [e]

24 Ships will come from the shores of Kittim;
they will subdue Asshur and Eber,
but they too will come to ruin."

25 Then Balaam got up and returned home and Balak went his own way.
Do not be overcome with despair. God has already sent forth the Word for Israel. It has already been declared how the enemies of Israel will end.

#176 ibrodsky

Yes, we need to use more violence to defeat Islamism.

Vickie was describing terrorism, though, when she said it works and to make note of this.

Do you think we need to become terrorists?

I hope not.

#178 rightasrain

Vickie was describing terrorism, though, when she said it works and to make note of this

That's not the way I took it.

#179 ciaospirit

Vickie was describing terrorism, though, when she said it works and to make note of this

That's not the way I took it.

Please take another look:

#139 Vickie -

Well its my Opinion that it is...time for Jews to learn from others. Violence seems to "get the job done" or didnt you notice that there is going to be a NEW PALISTINIAN STATE when in fact there is NO proof anywhere that there are a people, called Palistinians, that are separate and apart from generic Arabs of the area. No Proof in the Ground..no proof in the genes...no separate language or skills...BUPKAS... THRU Violence these "fairy tale" people got a State of their own.

#146 Vickie -

There ARE no Palistinians.. This is a MADE UP PEOPLE. They achieved their goal by VIOLENCE. VIOLENCE WORKED. Take Note Jews.

---------------

The only "violence" that the Paleos use is TERRORISM.

They don't have an army that fights.

Vickie is suggesting that Jews turn into our worst enemies by adopting their methods since they appear to work.

#174 yankee

Red Cross says detainees at Guantanamo allege Koran "mishandling."

They consider any infidel touching the Koran as mishandling. The Pentagon even issued a memo that soldiers should wear clean gloves when handling it. Also, if it is even near a toilet, it's considered descecration. It's nearly impossible not to mishandle the Koran, and you know what, SO WHAT! We are at war! Soldiers shouldn't have to worry about "mishandling" the goofy Koran. If fact, take all the copies out of Gitmo, then we nor they have to worry about it. And the Red Cross should stay out of it with their misleading headlines.

How many of these "hate crime victims" have been beheaded?!

#180 rightasrain

Vickie is suggesting that Jews turn into our worst enemies by adopting their methods since they appear to work.

I still disagree. You're putting words in her mouth.

174 yankeeqprfan

I find it hard to believe that this is even a big deal. Who cares? One lousy book - how many American head have been cut off? How many Americans died on 9/11?

As one of my friends in Israel said:

We should take a lesson from the French. When their Muslims started rioting about the ban on head scarves in public schools, the authorities clamped down on them, and all is quiet. They always back down when you stand up to their bullying.

For once the French had it right!

#183 ciaospirit

You're putting words in her mouth.

Actually, I quoted her words:

Well its my Opinion that it is...time for Jews to learn from others. Violence seems to "get the job done" or didnt you notice that there is going to be a NEW PALISTINIAN STATE

What "violence" do the Paleos do other than terrorism?

Re: the new Star War movie,are the Hollywood wakos getting a new trend ,inspired right from the koran?!with the amputations,beheadings,etc?!

CAIR's magic Hate-Crime-Counter must be spinning like crazy in past days with every instance of the word Toilet being placed next to the word Koran.

Millions of Americans will now automatically think of the word Toilet whenever the Koran is mentioned.

#184 Satin Sidekick

You're right. If we could only get our leaders to do it. They've pulled some of their nonsensical victim stuff on me in the classroom and I don't back down. Can't. They'll eat you alive if you do. (and I don't mean literally for any touchy readers)

With that, I'm off to work. Later y'all.

#178 rightasrain

No, I don't think we should become terrorists.

But I believe that a society can be collectively guilty for the actions of its leaders or elements within that society. When a society, such as Palestinians, encourages, supports, and honors racist mass murderers, that society loses some of the protection that should otherwise be afforded the civilian population.

The WW II Allies were clearly justified to conduct massive bombing raids. When the Japanese government distributed workshops among private homes, the civilian population cooperated and became a legitimate target. When the German people allowed the Nazis to take power and acquiesced to their agenda, they became a legitimate target.

Thus, Israel would be justified to attack a Hamas rally.

Today, a significant minority of Muslims (10%?) support terrorism. An even larger percentage of Muslims believe the West is largely responsible for Muslim terrorism. Only a tiny minority of Muslims seem to feel that Muslims are fully responsible for terrorism committed in the name of their religion.

Thus, instead of Condi Rice assuring Muslims that the US does not tolerate desecration of "the Holy Koran," she should have aimed her outrage at Muslim violence and threats in response to a false story (as Jeff Jacoby suggests).

BTW, am I the only person who is outraged to hear our leaders referring to the Koran as "the holy Koran"? When our leaders mention the Bible, how often do they call it "the holy Bible" and what would be the response if they made a habit of doing so?

188 ciao

Good for you! MY son's school allows them to leave the room if the word God is mentioned. They also provide a prayer room. I told my son to demand a prayer room too! He also wants to set up a shrine. ;)

#189 ibrodsky

Thus, Israel would be justified to attack a Hamas rally.

Agreed.

I think Israel is completely justified to do this.

189 ibrodsky

Thus, instead of Condi Rice assuring Muslims that the US does not tolerate desecration of "the Holy Koran," she should have aimed her outrage at Muslim violence and threats in response to a false story (as Jeff Jacoby suggests).
BTW, am I the only person who is outraged to hear our leaders referring to the Koran as "the holy Koran"? When our leaders mention the Bible, how often do they call it "the holy Bible" and what would be the response if they made a habit of doing so?

You're not the only one who is outraged. I am beyond pissed off.

I am thinking of going into that dark place full of all manner of evil and wickedness. The DU website. pray for me. I have not lurked all day. I know they are all twitching and calling every evil spirit up but I usually go over and lurk. I kinda feel like one of those spies in the old testiment. You know like at Jericho. But anyway this debate in Congress has stirred up all types of wickedness in their souls this day.

Vickie is just upset and weary. I understand that. Let her be.

193 ploome

Of course. I was thinking altar and stained glass as well. IF nothing else it will drive the magic carpet prayers out of the room.

Indeed, very little of what CAIR asserts checks out.

And this one time at band camp...

/American Pie

195 Satan Sidekick 5/19/2005 02:18PM PDT
193 ploome

Of course. I was thinking altar and stained glass as well. IF nothing else it will drive the magic carpet prayers out of the room.

Okay splain what this is. I was raised Baptist. No stained windows etc. Just pianno and singing.

197 riverofpearls

I was raised Catholic and we have stained glass windows and an altar in the front of the church where the priest says the Mass.

When I think about the koran vs the Bible I think about Moses; rod turning into a serpent. The egyptian's threw their magic rods down and serpents too. But then I remember the rest of the story. I am beginning to laugh at these muslims and their magic book.

#198 Satan Sidekick 5/19/2005 02:26PM PDT

Ok I misunderstood. I thought you might have an amulet or something. Any way it's ok. Darkness can not overcome light.

#194 riverofpearls

Vickie is just upset and weary. I understand that. Let her be.

If she is suggesting that Jews engage in terrorism (as the "violence" she says that Jews are supposed to learn from our enemies since it seems to be working for THEM), then I have to speak out against it.

When it comes to military combat - the IDF should hit the terrorists as hard as possible (to end their terrorist days forever.)

Israel should conquer the terrorists utterly and completely.

When it comes to Jews "learning" violence (terrorism) from the savages who try to kill Jews every single day, I have to speak up against going this route.

I have no choice. This is not something to be tolerated.

201 rightasrain 5/19/2005 02:30PM PDT

I have no choice. This is not something to be tolerated.

I understand and I agree with you but I think she is just tired. Let her alone for a while and let her rest. I have said things myself. I understand. Even King David was angry with Nabal Abigail's idiot of a husband. remember.

When I first read and heard some of the junk and garbage of muslims, libs. etc. I would get overcome with fear and anger. But now I can read it and not blink. I know light is stronger than darkness. All of these people are from the dark side. We must be from the light. Sometimes I actually laugh at these idiots. iIhave been reading my bible a lot too. I know who wins. The second book of Psalms. It helps me keep my eyes on the prize so to speak.

[Link: www.biblegateway.com...]

#202 riverofpearls

Yeah, we're all tired.

The next time she comes along in several topics to spit at me as if religious Jews are too stupid to be allowed to discuss politics (which she has done several times in the past few days), I'm going to pop her in the tooth.

We get enough of this crap from our enemies.

The next time she comes along in several topics to spit at me as if religious Jews are too stupid to be allowed to discuss politics (which she has done several times in the past few days), I'm going to pop her in the tooth.

I am laughing so hard. I am a Christian and I have seen a few Christians I wanted to pop too. But I can't you know. lol

We have people arguing on the floor of Congress saying that Christians should not be judges or hold any office because they are not qualified. But I promise you we are going to win this thing.

#205 riverofpearls

Thank you for seeing the intended humor of the image of choosing a particular tooth as a target in response to fightin' words. :)

We just rid ourselves (not even a week ago) of two horribly anti-semitic posters who wore some of us out with their bitching and moaning against Judaism (complete with one of them threatening Charles in email and accusing Charles of being a 'religious zealot' like me - and this guy did name me in the email to Charles.)

The battle scars from all this are still rather raw.

Stereotyping religious Jews in an argument as if we're not keeping to "type" if we get involved in political discussions about actual (verifiable) things that are going on or not going on - well, it's not good.

Religious Jews are part of the 4000 years of Jews who survived all the way to the 21st Century (by being religious!) We're not antiquities - we are the flow of history from Abraham forward (even those of us who weren't raised religious but became religious as adults.)

When people shove religious Jews aside as not being appropriate for political discussions, they might as well shove our entire history aside (because the Jewish people have survived all this time by BEING religious for all these thousands of years.)

Anyway...

Thanks.

I think Vicki and ibrodsky are dealing with a problem of semantics or misunderstanding.

There are certainly atrocities or "crimes" that are, and have been, perpetrated on the basis of "hate". Clearly the Holocaust is a prime example.

The misunderstanding comes from the term "hate crimes".

What ibrodsky is referring to are already existing crimes like murder, assault, etc. These are "Crimes" regardless of who the victim is. The "hate" part of it comes in when enhanced penalties are doled out to the perpetrators of these crimes because of the belief that the crime was perpetrated on the victim because of some perceived characteristic of the victim (such as homosexuality, race, etc).

Thus we have two very different definitions of "hate crimes".

1. Crimes/atrocities that are perpetrated upon people SOLELY because of their religion, race, etc

2. Crimes that carry enhanced penalties SOLELY because they are perpetrated against certain people based on a "PERCEPTION" of that person's religion, race, etc.

Bottom line -

In Vicki's Hate Crime the CRIME itself is caused by the victim's race, religion, etc. Clearly a horrendous and intolerable action.

In ibrodsky's Hate Crime the PUNISHMENT is enhanced based on the perception of the victim's race, religion, etc - thus it results in punishment for the crime itself AND additional punishment for the perpetrator's "thoughts". Something that we should not allow because it is the proverbial "slippery slope".

Thus, both are right!

#206 rightasrain 5/19/2005 03:16PM PDT

Religious Jews are part of the 4000 years of Jews who survived all the way to the 21st Century (by being religious!)

I am sorry my son called. He leaves for Iraq soon.
I like you have been distressed. Fear does this. But I go to the gateway bible site every day. A few days I began to read Numbers 22. I had read it before but I guess i just didn't get it. Well the other day I got it. It came alive. I began to understand God's plan in that story of Balaam and his talking donkey. I am not sure what you call this book in the Bible but I know it is for the Jews. If you like read it. Be sure to read book 23,24 also.
[Link: www.biblegateway.com...]

Please explain to me why the Jews do not spell G-d's name completely. I read in the Bible where I am not even to speak the name of a false God but I do not understand this difference Christians and Jews use in spelling. Please forgive me if any of this offends you. I do not mean to offend only to learn.

I like you feel religion should not be used to disqualify people and their opinions, Especially since Osama Bin Laden declared a holy war against Americans, Christians, and Jews.

#208 riverofpearls

Please explain to me why the Jews do not spell G-d's name completely.

TheName is spelled out in the Jewish Bible.

We just don't say it when it's spelled this way (which is why we say instead: TheName, which is in Hebrew "HaShem" which means "the name.")

Only the high priest could say the actual name of G-d once per year when the Temple existed.

No one says it now. Not until the Temple is rebuilt.

Think of the name of G-d as being something so profound (as if you took the verb "to be" and included all its tenses - past, present, future - and put them in one word.)

It would be a word impossible to describe anyone but G-d (and also, an astonishing thing to think about - an infinite Creator who has always existed and who will always exist in the future.)

Too much (too profound) to want people to say in one word.

So we say "HaShem" for this instead ("The Name.")

209 rightasrain 5/19/2005 04:06PM PDT

Thank you. I understand. Most Christion call Him "The Great I Am". A state of being also. I was brought up to be a Christian but like many children I understood nothing. Once later in my life I was in such an awful place I determined to try to understand the Bible. To understand G-d. I started reading in Genesis. I read through all the begats. Nothing. It was when I read in Exodus that I knew he was real. I mean I knew He was real when I was small but anyway when Moses asked His name and He said His name I knew. I knew. His name just reading it I knew. I felt like running and shouting He is He really is. So He is "The Great I Am" to me.

Best wishes, riverofpearls.

#211 rightasrain 5/19/2005 04:27PM PDT

You take care,

riverofpearls

Hate crimes are bogus. There should never be a crime for hate. Everyone is entitled to hate who or what they want to.. it is their business.
However, no one has a right to harm or hurt another person, and we already have laws for that.

2 cents
Mo-boy

River OF: I'm not weary one single bit. I'm infuriated. I'm ANGRY. I watched while the Premier Country in the Entire World bended to the wishes of a few immoral TERRORISTS.

It was so easy to do. And these Terrorists are NOT FINISHED. They wont be finished until Israel and Jews are no more..

So Israel and Jews need to decide if they want to survive or NOT. Sharon and I vote for SURVIVAL by any means necessary. We tried to be "nice" and it didn't work...so if this continues and we see the Democracies caving into Islam, each time, Jews will have to GO FOR IT. So sorry. Never AGain...in case you forgot.

Fatal: Thats right..If someone is going after you JUST CAUSE you are ....(fill in the blank) then it is an out and out Hate Crime. Targeting people for who or what they are..is more than the usual crime. It is..a Hate Crime.

How others use this designation or OVERUSE this designation..is not in our ability to control.

But it is what it is. All you have to do is watch the film of the Nazis on Crystal Night. Its clear whats going on..Just one example. All you have to do is look at the pile of skulls from Cambodian Massacre..and you know what you have there.

And there is quite a bit of this going on in Africa NOW where Islam is targeting Christian Africans..They go after them just cause..Further they "mark" them to show their Supremacy over the Christian..Next they rape the women just cause..just to plant a "Moslem" in the Christian Woman. These are HATE CRIMES..For G-d Sakes.

214 Vickie 5/19/2005 04:48PM PDT
River OF: I'm not weary one single bit. I'm infuriated. I'm ANGRY. I watched while the Premier Country in the Entire World bended to the wishes of a few immoral TERRORISTS.

Not everyone in this Premier Country has bowed the knee to Baal.

There are people here who support Israel. I am one of them.

So Israel and Jews need to decide if they want to survive or NOT. Sharon and I vote for SURVIVAL by any means necessary.

I vote for survival also. Do not misunderstand me. Israel is very important to me. As for this country we have people who have accepted this philosophy of the left. Right now our Congress is arguing how this country will go. Israel has many friends here. I do understand your anger. Righteous anger is a good thing to have.

Riverofpearls

Your last post was a such a load of condescending BS that I almost threw up. While it is nice to think that one wouldnot stoop to the level of the enemy to survive, the only way to defeat the enemy is to increase the level of violence and make them regret their original intent. Violence is stopped by the application of extreme violence. Conflicts shouldnever be fought with the intent of achieving a draw because that's is the greatest waste. It achieves the status quo and kills people in the process. If you're going to fight, fight to win and damn the "rules" if your enemy isn't abiding by them anyway.
Politicians seem to think, you can talk your way to victory. Hogwash. Defeat the enemy before he can defeat you and use all means necessary to achieve that aim.

#214 Vicki, they won't be finished until AMERICA and FREEDOM and SELF-DETERMINATION and EQUALITY OF THE SEXES and HUMAN RIGHTS and DEMOCRACY are FINISHED!

Be absolutely clear on this: Muslim 'peace' means 'Muslim domination of all the world!'

217 Attilla the Dutchman 5/19/2005 06:23PM PDT

Riverofpearls

Your last post was a such a load of condescending BS that I almost threw up. While it is nice to think that one wouldnot stoop to the level of the enemy to survive, the only way to defeat the enemy is to increase the level of violence and make them regret their original intent. Violence is stopped by the application of extreme violence. Conflicts shouldnever be fought with the intent of achieving a draw because that's is the greatest waste. It achieves the status quo and kills people in the process. If you're going to fight, fight to win and damn the "rules" if your enemy isn't abiding by them anyway.
Politicians seem to think, you can talk your way to victory. Hogwash. Defeat the enemy before he can defeat you and use all means necessary to achieve that aim.

So Attilla when will you be leaving for afghanistan, Iraq, Israel? What type of training have you had? Are you in good phsyical shape? Why don't you just hop on down to a recruiter and sign those papers that say you swear to give your life defending the things you believe? Just remember contrary to the MSMs reports both the US military and the IDF train and educate their people before they send them off to war. But hey you get on with our fine self.

riverofpearls

Riverofpearls

Thank you for conceding the point. That was your intent wasn't it? Attacking the person rather than debating the idea is a sign that you can't refute the idea. So thanks.

As far as what training I have had, I managed to get quite a bit of E and E and other essential combat training like shooting and blowing stuff up. It worked, I lost a couple of non essential body parts in SE Asia and managed to survive.

I still contend in its basic form that violence is only suppressed by the application of superior violence. Any commments?

so/ot

Islamic Council: US Liberties Plummeting after 9/11

Largest US Muslim civil rights group complained that people are losing their liberties and reported a list of civil rights violations including cases of harassment, violence and discrimination against since the 9/11 attacks in New York.

Car..Atilla: Dresden was America Meaning Business in Warfare and it was the RIGHT and NECESSARY thing to do IF we wanted to SURVIVE FREE..We haven't Meant Business in the area of protecting ourselves since WW2. and everyone knows it.

Half hearted, guilty ridden defenses send a message that America isn't willing to fight all out to SURVIVE.

Well..Jews WILL elect to survive when the rubber meets the road. (All you Israeli SUPPORTERS...this is the real deal..if you don't support Israel doing what it has to ..to survive YOU aren't a supporter of Israel..just USING the Issue) Hate to tell you all..but when JEWS go to Israel it isn't much time, till they tell us quietly..that WE (Jews) are ON OUR OWN and wed better get used to it. Looks like the "warnings" we got were on the mark...correct...Israel really IS on its own.

Jews will DO what Jews have to do and ANYONE that gets in our way...will pay the price. **Never Again means just that... We now have a BABY MONSTER STATE bent on Destruction of Israel and Destruction of Jews being set up right next to Israel and this Terrorist Entity will be funded and nurtured by the US, Europe and the Arab World. Well..If thats what America decided to do..then it decided to do it. Jews everywhere will have to respond to this decision. Jews and Israel are at RISK because of this decision.

What is even sadder..is that Israel was never the REAL TARGET or the FINAL TARGET of Islamists in the first place...America WAS and IS..Too Bad America didn't listen these 30 years when we have been pleading with you to pay attention...Now it will be up to YOU..if you want to survive.

Looking like America will do ANYTHING, crawl on its knees to anyone, sell out anyone, do business with anyone, be PRAGMATIC with anyone, in hopes of to keeping Islam quiet. What a shame...Its NOT gonna work.....ITS NOT...Gonna Work.

The second the phony Pal Flag Flies over JEWISH TERRITORY ie any part of Israel..The US and Israel will be on different cources..and pretending that this ISN'T gonna happen is folly. Israel will be on a SURVIVAL COURSE..

Fifty years from now..AMERICA too will be on that Course. Why didn't America listen? Cause they wouldn't believe Jews that warned them...thats why..Same old..same old.

Carridine: These people would be shocked..if they ever actually went to Israel and encountered Israelis..IM MILD compared to many MAINSTREAM Israelis.

Is there support for Israel? or is there support for anyone but Arabs and Moslem's, who wont let you into Israel, getting control in Israel? ( Support for Israel...that is as long as we stay within the policies of the US..blah blah)

Israel is a real Country..just like any other Country. And NO Country including the US puts up with a "ticking bomb" on its boarders. The US is supporting this CANCER, this Ticking Bomb, on Israels boarders..and so we begin another phase of Israeli/Jewish/American Issues.

WE KNOW what is likely to be coming.

Then after Israel is taken care of... on to AMERICA. What a tragedy.

All America ever had to do was say NO..to a completely made up phony Country. (NO proof in the Genes..NO proof in the GROUND..NO separate Language or Laws, NO NOTHING ) Its a made up group of People..and EVERYONE, including the Arabs said so..and knows this...

#222 Vickie

Looking like America will do ANYTHING, crawl on its knees to anyone, sell out anyone, do business with anyone, be PRAGMATIC with anyone, in hopes of to keeping Islam quiet. What a shame...Its NOT gonna work.....ITS NOT...Gonna Work.

What you think you've learned from the Paleos is that the way to win America's heart (for Israel) is to endlessly and viciously trash America.

I'm amazed you don't burn our flag.

Your tactic won't work. Everybody trashes America. There's nothing special about it when you do it. It's just the same old moonbat trashing that we get from the likes of Michael Moore.

The second the phony Pal Flag Flies over JEWISH TERRITORY ie any part of Israel..The US and Israel will be on different cources..and pretending that this ISN'T gonna happen is folly. Israel will be on a SURVIVAL COURSE..

The Paleo flag already flies. They designed it years ago.

Fifty years from now..AMERICA too will be on that Course. Why didn't America listen? Cause they wouldn't believe Jews that warned them...thats why..Same old..same old.

This reverse psychology trashing of America won't help.

It just makes you, personally, another enemy.

Get in line.

#223 Vickie

WE KNOW what is likely to be coming.

Then after Israel is taken care of... on to AMERICA. What a tragedy.

You've given up on Israel AND on America.

Well, it may be all over as far as you're concerned but there's quite a bit left to all this. You're focusing on one single aspect of all this and missing absolutely everything else.

In the end, we will win.

Please pick yourself up, Vickie.

It's not the time to surrender to despair.

carridine (#218)

Be absolutely clear on this: Muslim 'peace' means 'Muslim domination of all the world!'

Very clearly stated. This is a clash of civilizations, not a war.

riverofpearls:

In regard to your question of why Orthodox Jews write G-d, without the o.

Books and papers with the full name of G-d need to be treated with respect - they cannot be treated in the same way as other papers - we cannot just throw them in the garbage, we have to bury them. In every synagogue and school there is a place to put old papers and books, and every once in a while they are collected and buried in a Jewish cemetary.

We also kiss a bible if it falls to the floor, and we kiss the Torah every week when it is taken out, before it is read.

We are the people of the book in more ways than one.

Thanks, westbankmama!

In regard to your question of why Orthodox Jews write G-d, without the o.

The meaning of riverofpearls' question went right over my head (I guess because I'm so used to seeing the dash written for G-d's name, and also because the story about TheName in the Bible is more extensive.) :)

Thanks much!

rightasrain -

I read here that you want to make aliyah. Don't want to pry, but have you been in touch with Tehilla?

To everyone who addressed my remarks.

First I never intended to offend anyone. Please forgive any ignorance of Jewish custom, law etc. I do not post here that often so I am not familiar with evryone's point of view. I live in the early time zone and I went to bed.
To Attilla: I need to let you understand about me first. My son is an officer in the US Army. For 14 years he has served this country. Since he was a small boy he has been taught to love and respect the nation of Israel. I am sorry if I sounded flippant about you. It is just sometimes I get so tired of hearing people rant and rave about what needs doing and why this isn't being done. As I said my son is serving. He believes in what he is doing. In other words we are putting our money where our mouth is. Some people are not. Yet they sit around and discuss what should be done. Many times I think if this person is so critical of men and women who are willing to put their lives on the line then why aren't they out doing something. There are many who come into these blogs and rant yet they do nothing. Please just understand I like Vickie get very tired and fed up and angry. You just happened to take the full brunt of my frustrations.

Vickie: You might actually be surprised at how much I think like you about all of this. I get frustrated with how we are handling this war. I know what needs doing. Yet we have a situation here in this country where half of this country has its head up its butt and is in terrible denial. I like you believe Israel is in a struggle for its survival. I believe the majority of the ME muslims hate Americans and Christians and would kill all of us in our beds while wwe are sleeping. I am praying all americans will wake up soon. I hope it doesn't get as bad as I know it can before we finally pull our heads out of our butts.
I believe desperate situations demand desperate answers. However Israel handles this problem is Israel's business. In other words "do what you got to do to get this taken care of".

west bank mama

Thank you for the additional information. I am ignorant of many things. G-d's word is so holy I need to be respectful of all things concerning him. Thank you for instructing me. You are absolutely correct in all of your post. I will do much better. G-d is Holy and anything to do with Him should be treated reverently .

rightasrain Thanks

To all of you thank you for helping me.

I will not be online today. I am going to take a friend to have a biopsy of a tumor growing in his abdomen. This guy is really good friend of mine and I am worried. We have this agreement to take care of each other. His son is grown and he like I has no one to help him. I just had three stents put in my heart and a carotid artery cleaned. So I would appreciate any prayers today for both of us.

riverofpearls

#229 westbankmama

I read here that you want to make aliyah. Don't want to pry, but have you been in touch with Tehilla?

No, I haven't yet, but I will.

I've been looking for places to live and I have someplace in mind already (in Judea, of course.)

So we'll see. :)

America / Bush isn't doing absolutely everything I wish we were doing in the Arab-Israeli conflict. Not by a long shot.

However, I do understand that Bush has certain goals when it comes to trying to bring democracy to the Middle East. He can't try to promote this everywhere else while appearing to deny the opportunity to the Paleos.

Nothing has changed for the Paleos with Arafat's death and Abbas' election, but it's enough of an apparent change to make it seem necessary (to Bush and company) to give Abbas a separate chance to do things differently than Arafat.

We focused on how bad Arafat was while he was alive, so we now have to let Abbas stand or fail on his own (even though we know that his 'moderate' appearance is incredibly superficial.)

It makes for an extremely frustrating situation, especially when we ask ourselves why we're bothering to give these guys another chance at all with Arafat's 40 year Fatah second-in-command.

This is where things are going, though (giving this guy Abbas his own chance to fail.) If/when he does fail, it's also important to make it clear that HE failed - he wasn't 'wrecked' by Israel.

It's a minefield (and a mindfield.) Very frustrating, but it's the situation we're in right now and we're going to see it through.

As long as Bush and company don't look at Abbas' failure and say 'Ok, that's good enough' (while terror still exists) --- this is the part of all this to watch like an eagle.

This is the thing that would make the biggest difference and we don't know yet how this will play out. I feel confident that Bush and company won't let things go forward if the terror option still exists as the Paleo strategy, but we don't know yet for a fact how this will play out (or what Israel would do if this part goes badly.)

So there's a lot to watch and it's aggravating as hell, but it's the situation we're in right now so we have to see where it goes.

westbankmama, I say I've found a possible place in "Judea, of course" not because I don't like Samaria. :)

It's been my goal all along to live in Judea, so it's the only place I'm looking for a place to live.